Speaker 1: I think a weak a weakness of theirs, because for example,
when they when they appeal to all these atheist scholars
and academics, they don't mention the fact that none of
those atheist scholars and.
Speaker 2: Academics believe in the Quran.
Speaker 1: So it's like they only will utilize this argument to attack,
you know, Christianity. They totally ignore all the same scholars
talking about how silly the Kuronic narratives and the how
deeds are. But so they just latch onto whatever's out there.
But no, I think the laws of Christianity are way
more humanitarian, obviously than the traditional laws of Islam.
Speaker 3: I'd like to make a couple of points on slavery,
because there was a Protestant guy who said that one
of the worst missed opportunities for the Council of Nicia
is that they didn't ban slavery. Now, I don't know
how we expected that to happen. Our Council of Bishops
could ban slavery, they could put it forward or something,
I suppose, But people miss very simple historical realities. It
wasn't that maybe from the Roman Empire this was different,
but for most of human history and most places which
weren't highly highly developed. And then even there you don't
get freed from slavery. And then you go and you know,
start working in a shop. You know, I don't know,
like never mind, I can't make a joke if I
can't remember the name of a shop. But you don't
start your own podcast. You don't start like making your
own trinkets or something that is not an option, Which
is why there's a stipulation in the Bible and the
Mosaic Law that if you want to stay as a slave,
you know, there's a process for it, you get your
piersed and you know certain signs of it. Why because
at least you would get food and shelter, which is
not even a probability if you just go out on
your own after being a slave.
Speaker 4: I will add really quick, really quick. Basically, like to
reference the woman in the woods during a wartime, the
modern person who's oh, slavery bad Christianity falls. Do you
think that woman in the woods is going to build
a treehouse and have some sort of like weird only
fans from the treehouse and she's gonna make her way
in the world. No, the man will be like, no,
I'm going to pluck you from the wilderness, even against
your will, and I'm going to make a better life
for you because I'm leading you, so continue pass right.
Speaker 5: So, by the way Islam teaches, you know, taking sex slaves,
that is why they say that the you're allowed sex
with women you're married to, or what is ascribed as
that which your right hand possesses, which is to say.
Speaker 4: Prisoners two right hands or one right hand.
Speaker 3: Which you're right, which one possess, right, So what is
basically temporary marriage, so it's still considered marriage. Now the
studies will tell you that this is a practice. But
then again, you know, as with all things in Islam,
depends on whom you ask, but even is considered marriage,
and therefore nika is permitted.
Speaker 4: Sorry sorry that.
Speaker 6: Maybe because you basically said, what's up efforts? But uh,
what I mean is there's no such a I was
in Mosaic law, even with the women you get who
have not yet known a man, And that is given
only for specific campaigns, for specific peoples to be specifically
punished for the most group tesque practices.
Speaker 1: And there's something probably going on with the ending of
that lineage in the in Divine Providence that again what's
happening in the Old Testament is also sure the survival
of the people to produce. It's not because they have
better DNA or something magical DNA.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: So people who are committed to the destruction of Israel
in the Old Testament period, that's the specific reasons why
God ends the lineage of those groups. So, and it's
the same principle with the flood as we've talked.
Speaker 2: About with the Muslims.
Speaker 1: I would like to add too, because it didn't we
didn't actually get the covered in the debate. But the
Bible and no place allows the Jews or is realized
to grape anyone. So the most saying that you can
do that, there's no you can.
Speaker 5: They mean like you can take the women who have
not yet known a man. But it says you give them.
Speaker 3: Forty days to mourn and then they can decide whether
to stay with you or not.
Speaker 5: And right if they decide to stay, they shave their head.
And which is how.
Speaker 3: Women would convert to Judaism, what we call Judaism. I
suppose they would shave their head. You know, can't freely
circumcize them. A bit difficult, Okay, if your Muslim you can,
but there's no biblical stipulation for how you would circumcize
a woman. But that that shaving of the head represents
like a new start, and if they refuse, you have
to let them go, and you're forbidden from selling them
into slavery. Now, the Jews the Israelites at this point
still it wasn't yet split into North and South. So
the Israelites, a lot of them didn't follow these rules.
But that's a different thing like people who say, oh,
we are told the Jews that Israelites were monotheistic, but
archaeology tells us and you know, like what, just take
the Old Testament, you know, and you know, go to
a random page and put your finger somewhere, go five
verses up or down.
Speaker 5: It will say.
Speaker 3: Something about Israelites worshiping foreign gods. Right, and so the
disobedience to the law doesn't mean that it's allowed. So
God will tolerate a lot of things, but he sets
out what is the moral expectation. And once you fill
up the cup of iniquity, as it's most often translated,
then bad things start to happen. Right, So tolerance is done.
Now you have to suffer because you will not be
corrected any other way. So that part is clear about
the women, but about slavery in general. As I said,
it wasn't a free market economy. I guess in a
sense it was because things weren't as interconnected. But there
was no You would be some type of day laborer, right,
you would work all day.
Speaker 4: And free market listen doesn't. I hate to interrupt, but
I don't want to do it. Gale spin into Islam
and all that. Let's continue with this guy's dumb position.
And by this guy, I mean this guy and then
Jay and and Posh. You can sort of influence. When
you want to get into more modern takes.
Speaker 5: You should get progressively closer to.
Speaker 4: I mean, look at that. I mean looks like what's
the movie with Ben ben Stiller where he's a model.
It's kind of like that, you know, where he's a
model and he's camera Yes, Darby's blue scyp.
Speaker 5: He looks offensively irish.
Speaker 2: By the way.
Speaker 4: He is very irish. Yeah, he is.
Speaker 7: The years from the going forth of the Order to
rebuild Jerusalem to the coming of Messiah, so many of
the thinkers down through history have played with these seventy
weeks of Daniel, all of them, of course, envisioning that
the seventy weeks expire with the advent of Messiah in
the beginning of the work of Christ through his Church,
and so on. Darby again brings a unique idea that
the seventieth week is detached from the first sixty nine
and thrust out somewhere in the future, and that seventieth
Week of Daniel is actually identical with the Great Tribulation.
If there's ever a point where Darby's analysis has been
almost universally criticized by non dispensationalists, it's here, because at
least the general assessment is there is absolutely no exegetical
justification for detaching the seventieth week from the first sixty nine.
It is a somewhat arbitrary construction.
Speaker 2: But it yeah, he has to do that to make
it work right.
Speaker 5: And by the way, every time you hear how does
unique take I should tell you everything you need to know.
Speaker 7: Sixty nine does make SeeMe hang together better to view
it that way.
Speaker 4: So that's what he does.
Speaker 7: The church is raptured out before the Tribulation. Now, this
again was a notion that seems to have been borrowed
from Edward Irving. We talked about him a couple of
weeks ago, and at least there's fairly good documentation that
Edward Irving got the idea of a tribulation period and
a church being raptured out in an ecstatic utterance from
a young woman named Margaret MacDonald and one of his
somewhat pentecostal.
Speaker 4: Uh, Jake, why, I'm sorry you may have said this,
but why was it the week before and not like
sixty eight or something like? Why wasn't it two weeks?
Did you clarify that?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 4: What was the why the last week?
Speaker 1: Well, the last week is the one that's the where
all the heavy crazy stuff happens. Oh, I'm let me
read this, Passwade if you don't mind, it's not long.
Speaker 5: You want me to reader?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, do it man, I'm open here.
Speaker 5: Okay.
Speaker 2: So basically, it says.
Speaker 1: All of the measure of the sins are going to
be fulfilled and everything finished and determined within this period
of seventy weeks, which is not it's four hundred and
ninety years, it's weeks of years.
Speaker 5: Okay.
Speaker 1: It will finish sin, wipe out lawlessness, a toll him
for wrongdoing, bring righteousness, seal up vision and prophecy, and
anoint the Holy One. You will know that there will
be from the know that from the going forth out
of the word to rebuild Jerusalem. Now this is the
part that's somewhat debated because we have to go to
different texts and look at Ezra to figure out when
the most people think artistser Sees commissioned Ezra to rebuild
the temple in four fifty eight BC, which is second
Ezra seven, seven and eight in the Orthodox study level. Okay,
so there's some debate over that, but we'll skip that
debate this for this point, because the main point is
that all of this is happening in this final seven
years of the four hundred and ninety years.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: You will know therefore and understand that from the going
forth to build the Temple, to rebuild the Temple and
rebuild Jerusalem, that Christ, the Messiah, the Prince. There will
be seventy weeks and I'm going to skip down to
the final week. After these, the Anointed One will be
put to death and there will be no judge for him,
and he will destroy the city and the sanctuary with
the Prince who is coming, and they shall cut off
with a flood and end the war with an end
of war, and this will put the city, appoint the
city to desolation. But know this that he will make
a covenant, and in the middle of that covenant, the
sacrifice and the d and the offering will be taken away,
and there will be an abomination of desolation in the
temple and an end that is appointed. So basically we
interpret that as Christians as Orthodox, especially that the Messiah
fulfills these things in that last week, that last seven
years of his time frame of being a minister, and
then the destruction of the temple. It's all encapsulated under
this last in other words, the First Coming. The First
Coming fulfills these prophecies.
Speaker 4: Okay, so Jay, it sounds like it makes total sense
you'd hold off on that week because if you stop
it at the sixty nine week and have an arbitrary pause,
you can keep waiting and waiting and have control over
that final like basically any time between sixty nine weeks
and the rest of the world, you're basically correct, like
Pasha said, you're just always right because you've hit a
our arbitrary pause, so you can just keep manipulating real
time events, smuggling them into your dispensational view. And because
you hit pause, you could you'll never be wrong. You'll
never be a wrong profit in a sense, right because
because things never could come to pass, because you have
to hit unpause eventually on the plit on the on
the play deck there. So it's that seems very deliberate
to me.
Speaker 8: Yeah, not only what you just forgot that.
Speaker 1: The Epistle of Barnabas, which is not canonical, but it's
a very early u testament to the views of the
early Church, observes that this pass was fulfilled on the
temple and the sanctuary destroyed in seventy eight d. Marnabas
points out that a true temple was built the body
of Christ during this time period. Seventy weeks is determined
to mean seventy weeks of years or four hundred ninety years.
The prophecy applies to Jeremiah's seventy years from Jeremiah nine
two twenty five eleven, and it says, according to Saint Hipolotis,
the vision concerns the time when the temple would be rebuilt,
as well as the coming of the Messiah Uh and
then our desercees commissions Ezra to rebuild the temple in
four fifty eight PC. So yeah, it's a little confusing
with the Weird Week's terminology, but that's.
Speaker 5: What was going on, gotcha little style meetings.
Speaker 7: You know, it was not developed by Edward Irving. He
didn't work out in elaborate eschatology. But that kernel may
have been the most important triggering idea in the whole
thought of Darby, and he took that and ran with
it a long way. And so it was this pre
tribulation rapture that and since became the seed out of
which so much of the rest of his sketalogy schematic
was developed. So the church is not only raptured out
before the millennium, actually before this tribulation period. Most of
the Book of Revelation, according to Darby, is describing events
in the future that occurred during this tribulation period. This
is what's called the futurist view of revelation, that is
describing events in the future. We've looked at the historicist
view in some details. There's other views that were much
less influential.
Speaker 5: The preterist views.
Speaker 7: These revelation largely describing events taking place in the first century,
Darby becomes the most famous of the futurist approaches to Revelation.
Speaker 4: Now I want to pause there. Futurists, is that like
this view, that you contrive it and make it happen
like an accelerationist view, or is futurist view in this
context something a little bit different where it's just describing
the chronology and not it's not a matter of contriving
and trying to.
Speaker 1: Make describing the preterism versus futurism. So basically there's three
views on dating, and there's preditorist, historicist, and futurists. Creditist
believes that much of the passages are fulfilled in seventy
of E or before, and there might also be a
future fulfillment. But historicists believes that, for example, the Book
of Revelation is talking about the whole history of the Church.
A lot of Protestant Reformers were famously historicists. Many Catholic
Jesuit theologians have been historicists, and they kind of see
like random sort of stuff like you'll see Roman Catholics say, oh,
Revelation twelve, that was the Middle Ages when.
Speaker 2: The blah blah blahor whatever.
Speaker 1: They're just sort of assigned random church history stuff to
the Book of Revelation, and then futurists.
Speaker 2: Is this these people?
Speaker 1: So all pre millennialists are futurists, but not all prim
millinists are dispensationalists.
Speaker 4: Gotcha?
Speaker 7: During that time, a character is the Antichrist is going
to dominate in the world. He comes in originally as
a kind of champion of peace. He makes best any
creations of the world, essentially putting himself in a position
of worldwide prestige. He makes packs, including a pact with Israel.
But then in the middle of this tribulation three and
a half years in, he violates. He breaches that agreement,
committing a sacrilegious act at a temple that of course
has to be rebuilt before any of these could take place,
And that gives rise then to three and a half
years of horrific conditions in the world, culminating in a
great battle describe or mentioned in Revelation sixteen called the
Battle of Armageddon.
Speaker 4: Now I want to just note, as we move into
the modern cultural context of all this, is that the
dispensationalist view allows for seeing someone like Donald Trump or
anyone else in the arena as you can take the
view that he's the evil one, and you could also
take the view that he's the scent angelical one, and
they're both have some they both have some elasticity to
them if you hold this view. So that's what's kind
of that's what you see in the meme world right.
Posh mentioned the hat the mark of the Beast is
make America great again. But then other people take the
view that Donald Trump is in fact the Antichrist because
he's gonna make a pact and he supports Israel, but
then he's gonna you know, all this stuff. And it's
just interesting that the elasticity that it gives you to
hold this position, because to point out out again that
sixty nine week pause button really allows for any sort
of crafting and writing in between. Anything you want to
add to that, because I just, you know it, all
of these things he's saying, I can't help to be
triggered into the morass of modern culture, geopolitics, and all
the the takes that we're engaging with daily. So anything, or.
Speaker 3: I would like to restate what I said earlier that
it's great for them because you basically occupy both sides
of the diectic. You can say, oh, Trump is the
Antichrist because look at him.
Speaker 5: He is a woman eyes. He has worked in.
Speaker 3: Like New York real estate, so you can imagine, you know,
there's been some ify things going on there, et cetera.
But you can then have like religious leaders who stood
by him. You know, God uses imperfect people just show
his glory, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, you could do anything.
And then you have like the Orthodox position is you
pray for those who are leading the country right because
they everyone needs prayer. We all need prayer, We all
need mercy and grace. So you know, we don't know
he could be, he could not be.
Speaker 5: Not ours to calculate some suit of geometrio or whatever.
Speaker 3: We we deal with what we have. You know, PRIs
says you to pilot. You know, you wouldn't have this
authority unless it was granted to you by my father.
So we are granted certain predicaments and we are to
endure them in the most Christian way we can. But
that's not fun enough, you see. But it's this beauty
of you know, holding both sides of the dialectic and
then you know, run them through whichever side you'd like,
depending on how you think of them. You know how
many people have thought Obama was.
Speaker 5: The anti of course.
Speaker 3: There are still people hanging on to that thought. So
you can't really reason with it because it's not not
just motivated thinking, but it's even super objective motivated thinking,
because it's not just objective, it's the word of God
that says that. So it's even higher than objective truth.
Speaker 5: Sure. And then like all the Anabaptists, like all like
Jehovah's witnesses, you know, you're just all like climate change.
You know, you just know it's ending. It's ending, and
it doesn't end to just move on, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm going to point to the last three here,
Posh and Jay, is that even what you just said
kind of brings this up, is that the Antichrist from
this dispensational view really reduces to not a spirit, a
sort of proclivity to a rebellion, or something like a
spirit of Antichrist versus a unique person with a name. Now,
I want to reconcile this for the chat because it's
interesting what would be the difference between a pre a
dispensationalist view of Antichrist as a distinction versus an orthodox
let's say, in this case, view of Antichrist, because because
it seems to be they hold the comic book view
where you have to reduce Antichrist to a very specific
kind of person and it doesn't include the spirit of Antichrist.
Now is that different?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 4: It seems like a good distinction to explore, right.
Speaker 1: They focus, so they hyper focus on you know, that
individual and his power or whatever. And you know, for us,
the false prophet is just as important as well, because
the false prophet is the leader of a false religion
that promotes Antichrist. So both of those figures are really important.
And you couldn't have Antichrist without the false prophet promoting
the spirit of Antichrist, right, like a mimic Messiah and
a mimic church and a memic Holy Spirit. So it's
a it's an inverted kind of trinity basically.
Speaker 4: Got you. But the from from a let's say, from
an orthodox view, the spirit of Antichrist could exist and
something we can use in reference without the personification in flesh.
Speaker 2: Right, because it's already at work.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, So that seems to be a distinct Christ.
Speaker 2: Is anyone denying the incarnation?
Speaker 5: And John many have already come right.
Speaker 4: You know, so gravy gravy.
Speaker 5: But but even people who go with like six sixty six.
Speaker 3: Or six one six, are you know, which rendered Nero?
You know, Uh, that's not to say Nero is some
guy who is this ultimate eval. He is the the
the archetype of the evil.
Speaker 5: He is the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire.
Speaker 1: Now keep in mind, there's another key indicator that only
Orthodox have an insight into, because if in third Maccabee's
chapter one, it mentions the fact that Ptolemy, who is
a type of Antichrist, just like Nero, just like uh,
these other rulers are polemy mandates that in order to
buy or sell you have to take the mark of
the ancient mysteries of Dionysius. So you have to get
this leaf, tattoo or mark in order to buy or sell.
And so when John talks about the mark to buy
or sell, it's the same spirit Ptolemy had that now
Nero's having, and presumably also will be the spirit used
at the end. Whenever the end is, there will be
some kind of attempt to control all economic transactions and
so forth, food and so forth too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, an important to mention is that there's also saying
that this is the church basically offers a counter to it.
So it's not going to be a medical procedure. You know,
your local priest isn't going to get the Holy Jabbies something,
or you know, in Greece there was a whole mess
a couple of decades ago with bar codes because they.
Speaker 5: Said, oh, you need these lines to buy stuff.
Speaker 3: Right, So you know, Orthodoxy isn't fully immune to nonsense
because people really like flashy things. They like things that
are easy to grasp and very they're like the immediacy
of it, which is again wrong and unwise and should
not be calculated by these pathetic means. But it's history
plays out and if you're going to use certain like
the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are Canaan ideities, you know,
that's the image that is used to show it to
people back in that day.
Speaker 5: So like terminology is.
Speaker 3: Used in certain ways, we need to maintain that usage that.
This is why perron is so important. The proneum of
the church is that you need to maintain the original
meaning and take it on. And you know, if you
need to change the word, change the word, that don't
change the meaning, but keep the graphemes and the phonemes
that that's pointless. And this is why this apocalypticism that's
there's been prevalent for the last couple of centuries among
certain strands of Protestantism are so powerful because it seems
so correct, even though you've actually moved from the meanings
of the words that are used and the symbols that
are used.
Speaker 5: So it bears no resemblance to the original.
Speaker 3: You know, like yon mathis like rode out like with
like a dozen people into thousands of soldiers and believed
he would get victory.
Speaker 5: Obviously loses. Does that stop his cult? No?
Speaker 3: They because he was chopped up and his head put
on a pike. I think his genitals were nailed to
city gates or whatever.
Speaker 5: But what does that make you?
Speaker 4: So, why does that make you so happy?
Speaker 3: I'm only too beers, I'm not too happy. But no,
it's funny because you think it would.
Speaker 5: Stop the cult. It doesn't.
Speaker 3: They go and gather pieces of him into baskets and
then wait for him to resurrect, right, so you would
think that they would be, you know, somehow corrected by
the events unfolding in front of them, but no it doesn't.
They just recalibrate and.
Speaker 4: Move on, Are you guys okay? Moving in Jay specifically geopolitics,
modern implications effects of this shit view.
Speaker 5: Just would you like to do that technical term for you?
Speaker 4: Yeah, shift for you well, because you know, because we're
dealing with, you know, the Boomer I think the boomers
are really the I don't want to call them victims
because they did it to themselves, but they really kind
of ran with this view and the ones that are
left are still uh, proponents of the view, and they're
they're in positions of power and what I'm if you
guys are wondering what kind of like person I'm referring to,
this is a good clip to kind of to sort
of show you who I'm talking.
Speaker 7: About, going down our country, going down Hell in a handbasket.
Speaker 5: Nobody he'll hell.
Speaker 1: Not the country we had.
Speaker 4: Is That's that's the kind of spirit of it. And
before we get into the geopolitics, Jay, just to demonstrate
it with another video, kind of the kind of mess
that is produced by this view for people who don't
even call themselves Christians. I think this is a fascinating clip.
We can run off this and Jay and and Pasha.
You can take it where you will, but this is
I found this clip fascinating to really demonstrate the impact
of this view and how what it looks like and
the kind of confusion it creates.
Speaker 9: The Zionism is a just cause him Bloch, where is
a family?
Speaker 4: Is probably this they are this is what caused an
action from the Zionist people.
Speaker 7: Yeah yeah, we lived in a house really yeah, yeah,
we lived in a beautiful past and want to sleep people.
Speaker 5: The honest of the.
Speaker 10: It was there, Yeah, it was not.
Speaker 5: They nothing. You don't live with me.
Speaker 4: You're jealous.
Speaker 8: You were a girl.
Speaker 5: Again to last world. They say that they believe in God.
So we're yelling again. I don't want you to doing
a girl all work and you're.
Speaker 10: Going you move. You want to.
Speaker 4: Know, I'm cheers, know you're yours listening.
Speaker 10: Don't you.
Speaker 11: Like she's just.
Speaker 4: To your monsters? Yeah yeah, he's got she's got the
little gay guy next to her.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah. But when I get in their faces and
shout you are Jewish? Why you like this? Then I'm
somehow you're terrible.
Speaker 4: Yeah So so Jay and Posh, That image right there
really sort of demonstrates the sort of catastrophe in the
views collapsing in that that they don't even know what
it means to say Jewish, or they don't know what
it means to say support of Israel. It's all, it's
all completely ripped apart, and watching that view, it's partially
funny but also horrifying. I gotta say, I'm so happy
to be on track to be in the church because
it makes sense of all of this. You're not confused.
You look at this too. You could actually look at
that woman as a cultural New York Jew or wherever
she is, and she thinks Jewish is Jewish. And then
the Orthodoe, the ortho Bagels as I call them, They're like,
what are you talking about? Like we don't even agree
with you here. And then really what they're talking about
is this distinction, like they one side sold a fake
advertised Israel and what it means to be Jewish and
the other one holds a different view. And even though
we disagree with both of their overall worldviews, it really
does demonstrate I don't I don't know a better clip
that could sort of at least encapsulate the impact of
this view. Is that fair to say that what we
just witnessed. Is is really just like an impact of
the destruction, like rubble, the rubble of the view.
Speaker 5: To stop.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Yeah, okay, I've got the So the best
history on this, by the way, is there's a whole
five pages in Tragic Hope that's really good on the
British imperial structure.
Speaker 4: What dude said, earth a low All right, sorry, I'm immature, Ortholos,
Go ahead, no.
Speaker 1: That I can just kind of summarize those stages when
when we're ready, if you want, but go ahead.
Speaker 3: Well, I wanted to mention how the whole idea of
genetic judaism is very important here because you that woman
doesn't look particularly practicing. But there's a great summary.
Speaker 5: Of it says most believe there is no God, but
he gave them Israel. And then they go through.
Speaker 10: To show that I've even seen Ben Shapiro, you know,
beings about this on on on the debate stage when
he says, well, how can you say you have.
Speaker 5: A right to Israel the land there? And he says
because of synagogues and I and then someone said, okay,
there are Native American you know, burial grounds in the US,
so why don't you leave, you know, so they can't
ever maintain this because there is no It's.
Speaker 3: Not meant to be coherent. It's just meant to be useful.
And when you see these Hasidics, who are you know,
they're wacky in their own ways. You have strands of Judaism.
Then believe, no, no, no, no no, God has to
give us the land. We can't do it ourselves. He
has to do it because that will prove that we
are ready for it. If we go ahead and usurp
the land. We have not shown ourselves, you know, clean enough,
obedient enough, which was sort of the Pharisaic view as well.
You know, we need to follow the law very very
very strictly, and then we will be pure enough and
God will send the Messiety will chase out the Romans
and et cetera, et cetera, you know, and basically the
only Judaism that survived from those days is the the
Pharasaic form, and then mutated into metesticized, I would say,
into all manner of thought. But then you get this,
as you said, some cultural New York born air and
a tiny nose, you know, shouting at these people about
how they.
Speaker 5: Have this blood.
Speaker 3: Obligation to support the Zionism and they're like, no, we're religious.
We believe in this religious interpretation and it says God
has to grant it to us otherwise we don't get it.
Speaker 4: Jay, did you want to respond to the clip itself
and then go into your thing, because I want.
Speaker 1: It's just kind of a you know, confusing situation where
a lot of these different too enter Jewish groups and
sex will kind of all have elements of truth in
the sense that, you know, Jews against Zionism are themselves
committed to, you know, certain interpretations of the Talmud, and
like Posh said, like they think it has to be
done a certain way before there's a restoration in.
Speaker 2: The coming of the Messiah.
Speaker 1: The other other strands, which are more secular and atheist,
like Posh said, I mean, it makes no sense because
it's like, well, there is no God, but he gave
us this land.
Speaker 5: So it's like.
Speaker 1: Totally especially a tool of of sort of secular powers.
But Zionism, you know, this comes it becomes very useful
for the British Empire. I'll get into that maybe a
little bit. But so there's it's really complex in the
in the way that like, there's a lot of different
factors going into this, but it just makes all of
it really makes no sense from any of these perspectives, is.
Speaker 4: Right, right? Super confusing both the sides. From our view,
we go, oh, they're both very confused about this, but
it is connected to what we've been discussing, right, It
just doesn't come out of nowhere. The cultural blonde nosjob
Jew was like screaming because she's arguing a cultural trend view.
The Orthodox is holding an ancient view and they're trying
to maintain it, and they have their own unfolding of
their of their religion that they think is going to happen,
and they're pinned against each other. And from your view,
from this analysis, there's no way to separate what we
just saw. Is at least fair to say there's no
way to separate what we just saw as a clip
from dispensationalism, that this is like a this is an
effect of it. Would you say, clearly an effect of
dispensationalist view, even though they're not Christianity.
Speaker 1: I had a role in helping America warm up to
supporting what the Ralph Childs and others wanted to do
in the Middle East. In that regard, it played a
key role in getting marshaling American, the American engine behind
a lot of these moves.
Speaker 3: Natonya who said that Christian Zionism was instrumental in paving
the road towards this general let's call it Zionists.
Speaker 4: So we agree with one point five percent of Adam
Green's analysis zero point three.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I know want to reject it just so
we're back to ZERI.
Speaker 3: No, obviously, but I think the dispensationalism is more driven
by its apocalypticism, and then was appeared to be very
useful and very easy to We don't need to talk
about if it's organic now okay, Nowadays you can trace
it very easily to both intelligence agencies and different types
of funding. And that started obviously with the start of
the even the Moral Majority and all of these groups
that really pushed on things and had this again, this
wind power of the Second World War and events therein
that really gave it a legitimacy, not just in religious circles,
but even in secular circles where they said, no, we
just need a place for Jews to go where they
can be safe.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: So all of these strands. It's what's important is that
they coalesce into the idea of these people get this
lad whether you get it through just to be safe,
whether you get it through Christian Zionism to Jewish Zionism,
through whatever. What's important is the outcome.
Speaker 5: In the meantime.
Speaker 4: It just depends on Okay, So would the would the
clip that I played exist even without the apocalyptic dispensational
sort of let's call it chunts. It's like the chunks
is like what you put in the pan first onions
and stuff. It's like the the base of the of
the meal. Do you think what what I just played
would be inevitable anyway without these kind of views affecting
especially modern Western American politics.
Speaker 2: I think yeah.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of this stuff was already kind
of baked into the cake before America got sufficiently h
propaganda's with this stuff because okay, okay, yeah, I mean,
you know, Balfour Declaration and establishment of Israel and all
that is kind of already going on by the British Empire,
but they definitely wanted to secure the supported American engine.
Speaker 4: Okay, got it. So I will retract I will retract
that I'm making a clear distinction or connection between that clip.
I just thought that was to me, it seemed relevant,
It seemed to sort of embody the problems we're dealing with.
I think I thought it was linked to it. But
if it's a case that that very instance could exist
very well without this beginning process that were sold constantly through.
Speaker 1: This, well, I think I think the analogy would be too.
So prior to all this, you already had the disputes
amongst Orthodox Jews Reform Jews right and the Reform have
always kind of moved towards more atheistic agnostic type positions.
And then you've got multi all different sects amongst Orthodox
Jews following various rabbinical interpretations and pseudo messiahs. So they've
had a history of falling for various khan men uh
you know, Rabbi whoever, and he was the real Messiah,
and even today a bunch of the of them believe
Schneerson was a messiah.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I believe I recently saw that it was himself.
Because they often use the title bail because bail is
just means lord like bail shemptove and someone the Jews
break to bail. But to the point about the clip.
The problem with your assertion, Jimbob, is that neither of
those sides were thinking, well, Darby said, right right, And
even again back to the New Testament times, you had
the Suse, you have the Pharisees, you have the Esses,
You had all types of like ze and you know
Scatari eye, which is where we get this carry out j.
Speaker 5: Carriot. But you had all these different interpretations of what
needs to be done to get things back in order. Right.
Speaker 3: The Pharisees thought, you need ritual purity, and this is
where a lot of Christ's criticism towards the Pharisees come from.
You know, you will get a tenth from your herb gardens,
but then you will ignore all sorts of things. The
subdences just completely hellenized. You know, they reject therely accept
the pentitoobe. They don't believe the after life. The Pharisees
famously do believe in the afterlife because Maccabees. Then you
got the Essens who sort of gave up on the
whole temple thing that go out into the desert red
so there is no unified thing. And then after the
fall Jerusalem again you might get some level of unity
because a lot of them, like this is basically relied
on being keyholders to the temple. That was that sort
of part. Once you lose the temple, you're pointless, and
then the Pharisees you know, yeah, go out they have
But even then it breaks into who knows how many
branches and people just you know, go with your pick
and choose or rabbi.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just I'm looking at the blonde woman in
the clip and going what what could her view be
possibly derived from? If not this flawed sort of genetic
take that can be traced basically trauma.
Speaker 3: A lot of it is like we're persecuted all the time.
They want to make lambshades out of us, you know,
so enough of that will turn any people into just delusional.
Speaker 5: It doesn't have to make sense, just needs to keep
you safe.
Speaker 1: Right right.
Speaker 4: It could be it seems to be like very culturally
derived that like she gets her identity from whatever cultural
propaganda she's getting, and it seems to be I'm trying
to make a link between what are the culture what's
the cultural propaganda she's getting, and can it be tracked
back to this idea that you know, these the genetics
is tied to the land. The genetics is is the
true or whatever that anyway, it doesn't really matter. But
I'm glad you guys distinguish that because either way, I'm
glad we've got to all watch that clip together. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jay,
you sent this in the link. Did you want to
go off of this thing.
Speaker 2: Here or yeah?
Speaker 1: This is a kind of an unknown thing. People don't
really know about the Havara Agreement. But it's a little
later than the beginning stage of this. But I'll try
to summarize really quick what quickly says. Basically, the British
Empire was looking for models to have stable Middle East colonies. Right, So,
Britain has a very powerful empire at this time, late
eighteen hundred. They're looking for different systems and structures that
might work to stabilize it. Amongst the British elite, they
were pretty much divided. You had half of them who
were very pro Arab, very pro Muslim, some of them
even purportedly converted. Some of the famous British spies, Kim
Philby's dad supposedly became a Muslim, whether he really did
or he was just being a spy. I don't know,
but they had a very robust Orientalist structure which could
learn the culture, master it and then rule it.
Speaker 2: For the British Empire.
Speaker 1: The Middle East, however, was so unstable, or so they said,
you had constant assassinations of leaders. They were looking for
what would be the most stable thing to put there,
and so, as we said, many of them favored Arabic
type leaders in government there. They were pro Palestinian or
as we say now pro Palestinian. But you also had
a faction under Lord Ralph Child, who were one to
establish a specifically Zion estate. And this was controversial because
you already had quite a few people who were already
there who were you know, Arab Christian and Arab Muslim obviously, so.
Speaker 2: You get this decision on the.
Speaker 1: Part of the British to set up essentially a Zion estate.
This is the British Mandate for Palestine, and it was
motivated by a lot of the World Zionist Congress, the
World Jewish Agency. This is known as the British Mandate
for Israel, which ended in nineteen forty eight. Because after
the UK Mandate, you got essentially the decision that Jews
needed to migrate there very controversial and it's almost like
maybe they wanted this to cause this division there, right,
because what happens is that the early Army of Israel
is created out of what's called the Haganah, and that's
originally the Stern Gang. The Stern Gang was kind of
an organized crime syndicate that function like the early protectors
you could say, of the Jews in Israel at this time,
and they evolve into becoming a proto intelligence agency, an army.
They're behind the famous assassination of one of the lords
of the United Nations because of his policies. Lord Moyne
was assassinated by the Oregon Gang in nineteen forty four,
and then they famously themb the King David Hotel. This
is because now the Jews are getting tired of the
British rule in Israel and in Jerusalem they want to
throw that off. Then it gets even more complicated because
this is the crazy part from the British Empire active
they wanted to manipulate and rule.
Speaker 2: Then we get this check this out.
Speaker 1: During the years of nineteen forty five to nineteen forty eight,
the Jewish Agency saw to establish Jewis stat and Palis
and removed the British restrictions on Jewish immigration, so Jews
Brits were now putting restrictions on who could go there
when previously they want them there. These were resisted not
only because of Britain's desires to maintain amicable relationship with
the Arabs, but also from the obvious lack of simpthy
for Zionist calls within the British government. So the Labor
Party comes to power in nineteen forty five, and because
the Labor Party were Fabian socialists, they actually were tended
to be pro pro Islam and pro Arab. The immediate
demand for the admission of one hundred thousand Jeish refugees
from Europe was rejected by the British and efforts to
smuggle some of these in gave rise to conditions of
quasi warfare between British and Zionist groups. The Arab League
of the Neighboring Arab States, which had formed underneath British
sponsorship in nineteen forty five, took as the chief aimed
the destruction of the zion and.
Speaker 2: To block Jewish immigration.
Speaker 1: When the Labor government in June refused Zionis requests for
admission of one hundred thousand Jwish refugees and instead sought
to arrest members of the Jewish agency, the Irgun and
reprisal blew up the British headquarters known as the King
David Hotel in Jerusalem and got rid of one hundred people.
The World Zonis Congress elected Peter's figures who were supposedly moderate,
like Heim Weizmann and David Ben Gurion. The former won
the election, and then you got the support for British
mindate from the United States, which was unobtainable since Washington
generally favored the Jewish side while the British favored typically
the Arab side. Thus, death sentences were carried out.
Speaker 2: On the various Jewish terror groups, and.
Speaker 1: In nineteen forty seven the British sought to escape the
situation by appealing to the United Nations, and basically they
just handed this over to the Israeli government. So then
Ben Gurion steps into power nineteen forty eight as the
first uh first president. I guess you could say prime Minister.
September twentieth, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was the chief
Muslim religious leader of the want and collaborator with Tony
mustache Man, and he proclaimed an Arab government for all
of Palestine. What's funny is that he's a British intelligence agent.
He's the guy that looks like exactly like Ryan Gosling.
Speaker 5: You should Yeah, I wanted to mention that he's an
m I six operative and he's I didn't know that,
the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a British intelligence operative and he's working together
with Tony mustache Man. So basically, British Charlie is trying
to play both sides of everything and it seems to
not really work out here, and so you end up
getting the through a bunch of E R R O
R the establishment of a scientist regime which is not
explicitly religious but utilizes the religious imagery and ideology to
sort of bolster support. So that's the irony here is
that Christian Zionists in America support all these people who
are essentially intelligence operatives and organized crime people in nineteen
forty eight who don't believe anything religious at all.
Speaker 4: Wow, you ain't kidding, that's funny. Wow, The Truthers are
going to lose their The Truthers are going to lose
their ship. That the body double.
Speaker 3: You know, Okay, some Reeves apparently has had many doubled
ganghas throughout history. But this person is rather peculiar in
his function, in his cooperation with a man whose mustache
was even tinier than mine.
Speaker 5: And that's right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that takes a lot, so Jay, based on what
you laid out here and the agreement that we went
over a little bit there that we had on the screen,
a lot of Americans who are maybe completely unaware of
the history, just we went over it with dispensationalism and
how it then plays into sort of the narrative of
geopolitics in America especially. They're unaware of it, but they're
participating in it. So do you think that it's it's
useless or feudal to even uh educate those kinds of
people who just have this kind of impulsive loyalty. I'll
look at Ryan and Gosling with little must look at that. Yeah,
they're talking about teasing.
Speaker 1: Way you're interested in a book that covers the how
he was a British intelligence It's Fayo Ingolf's book Lost Hedgem,
on whom the Gods Would Destroy. He's basically just detailed.
There's old chapter on Graham Mufti as a British intelligence operator.
But sorry, go ahead, No.
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, like, what's the what's the methodology?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 4: Like obviously doing a stream like this or anything like
it that sort of sheds light on the summary of
this view and how it plays into modern politics. I
feel like we're in an era where people who take
this immediate impulse of loyalty to Israel in the political arena,
they're not going to really care what kind of history
you bring up, right, So it's like, I guess what
my question is, like us as people who talk about
this stuff and you know, analyze it and put it
into its proper categories, is it useless? I mean, not's
a blackpill, but like, what is our duty here as
far as like revealing because I think it needs to
be talked of more.
Speaker 1: The key is to understand to note, I'm not saying
you do this, but do not hate groups of people
in collectives, because people are raised in things and people
are in auction with things that are And I was
thinking about this the more I was, you know, ruminating
on the Muslim debate from last night, like people are
sort of imprisoned, you know, in these systems, and the
systems are not going to make you happy, you know
what I mean, they don't provide what they claim to provide.
Speaker 2: So I see a lot of the people being manipulated.
Speaker 1: You know, the one hundred thousand Jews that we're trying
to migrate, they were supposed to migrate.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: It's sort of like refugees are geopolitical tools on the chessboard,
and so we should feel sorry for the people. But
at the same time, like for example, Muslim refugees, like
they're also being used. So there's no easy answers. I
think that the more that we do understand the historical
nuances of the situation, we have to try to be
compassionate and concerned for people. Not that you guys aren't,
but there's a reactionary tendency right where people.
Speaker 2: Are just like, oh, it's all this group. Oh it's
all that group, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, these people are pawns, they're tools, they're used.
I think that the Ralph Child group utilizes these people.
They I don't know that they really believe the religion,
and I think I see it as kind of like
a tool that they use to control people, much like
a lot of Muslim caliphs probably didn't believe the religion,
but they use it as a tool to you know,
energize armies and so forth, to.
Speaker 5: Loot and plumb.
Speaker 1: I mean, Mohammed seems to have done that, right, So
there's a pattern of using ideologies for these geopolitical ends.
So I wouldn't say it's black pilling. I would just
say it's more so like understanding the nuances of the situation.
And it's not always or totally one person's fault. But
between the two people debating that we saw a minute
ago and screaming like they're both kind of goofy.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, because we mustn't.
Speaker 3: I rail against abstractions all the time because the problem
with abstractions, as I say, it's a common phrase, abstraction
is subtraction.
Speaker 5: You need to take out a lot of.
Speaker 3: Peculiarities in order to have it as some type of
abstract notion, and we tend to forget that these are
human beings. If you're born, for example, into Islam, your
family is Muslim, so you're going to have an innate,
you know, desire to defend Islam because no matter how
it's not no matter, but.
Speaker 5: When people tell you, oh, Muhammad was this who did that?
And this is false? That is false.
Speaker 3: A lot of their thinking is, my family can't possibly
be supporting this guy. My father is a great guy,
my friends are great, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
So it's a human thing. It's not input out. But
they're not machines. And good thing that they're not machines.
Those who do decide to convert or even abandon Islam
take massive risks. Their families are put at risk. So
with the clip that we saw earlier, right, these people
grow up with it.
Speaker 5: I grew up.
Speaker 3: I'm cradle orthodox right, and a lot of things that
were blind spots for me because.
Speaker 5: It just that's how it is.
Speaker 3: You know, when people ask me, you know, why do
you pray to saints? You know, I know, because they're
awesome thing and they help you out right, But then
you have to go and study the theology. Most people
do it because pure inertia. Others like Sneaker or someone
might be just grifters, but might simply be completely demoralized
by the state of the world and they're looking for refuge.
And if your idea of Islam is it's like Christianity
but hasn't been you know, wimpy, and you know, you
get four wives instead of one, and it's like no trinity,
and that's basically the difference. And we go to the
mosque on Friday, right, we don't go to churchill Sunday.
And that's basically it.
Speaker 5: You know, you go for it.
Speaker 3: And you know, the Islam as a very pr oriented religion,
so they organically basically go for praising you anytime you
say anything nice about Islam.
Speaker 4: If you convert, they have you right on their they
have you right on their podcast immediately.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like a Baptist but like
you know, the bad starts. You can like say the
Sinner's prayer and then like you're giving the test, you're
giving your testimony and preaching next Wednesday.
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, totally. It's like it's like brigger you any
any leftists who says anything in Hollywood remotely classical liberal,
they slap them on an orange and blue meal immediately.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I had to watch Michael Nole's interview
Ryan Long, who's just a comedian, he's a goofy, he's
not a political activist, and I had to watch it,
because I was expecting every single thing that Ryan Loong
says it was going to be, well, you know the left.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, the left is the bad, the real bad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's exactly what happened. But the problem is
that Ryanlong is so a political that basically anytime he said, well,
you know, the left does this, but the conservatives, he said, yeah,
but sort of those the bush Eras. So that's up,
you know, and you can't get it. But these people
are so ideologically obsessed that they have to shape anything
that's even remotely approbatory of that position into like a confirmation.
And what I like to say is it's winning either way.
There's even a higher level of that when if let's
say a child agrees with your position, it's even a
child sees that this is correct. If a child agrees
with the opposing position, only a child could agree with that.
You know, it's just rhetorical flips. There's nothing to it.
And I'm afraid that because we're so abstract, we're so
detached from human life, and technology has made that very
very possible and very pronounced. We just see people as
I don't know, data points. It's very stalin esque. You know,
deaths and millions is a statistic. Likewise with conversion, if
a friend of yours converts to Orthodoxy, oh great, But
if a million people convert to Catholicisms, like it happens.
Speaker 5: And it's dehumanizing.
Speaker 3: And as far as the approach to all of this,
my suggestion is the strength of Protestantism is that it's
so slow, Ganieri, it's so short and snappy, you know.
Speaker 1: That's what Daniel tried to argue at the beginning of
the debate last night was look, Islam is simple, it's easy,
it's got four lines, so it's got to be clear
and true.
Speaker 2: That's what yea.
Speaker 3: So my suggestion is just try to make short arguments
like I gave the one with why is if Christ
rules for a thousand years, why is in the future right,
he establishes a thousand years of just pure haven on earth,
this kingdom and then loosens up the devil at the
end of it. Was the point of that with our
expectations like we're in the millennium and when the end
is coming, you know, the reigns of Satan or Loocid.
Bit makes perfect sense. So that may be something you
need to fight to them with snippets. Unfortunately, because the
moment you use more than five sentences all of a sudden,
that's not that's not philosophy.
Speaker 1: Like like Sam's really good, for example, when he debates
the Muslims in like because he's done it for so
many years and so many times, Like he knows like
three sentences right of how to spit out like a
problem for the Muslims within two or three sentences, So
he's really good at that.
Speaker 4: I wanted to point out that in our assessment of
the dispensationalist view, its perversion of Hermanus in scripture, and
its implications of policy, the reason I came, I asked
us all here is is saying, like asking the question, well,
what should we do? How do we is it more folders?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 4: Do we show more folders and reveal the truth of it?
And I want to make this distinction that like if
you use the exposing dispensationalism and it's all you know
the names, and you know the bagel people, and you know,
you know, properly show people, wake people up, you know
this kind of truth or take it? Seems to me
it's all useless if you're not bringing people to the church.
And so in the end, it's like, if we're using
it for a cultural uh you know, sort of a
cultural trending use for it, we're using it as like technology.
We're really just participating the same game. And so you know,
that's why I made sure to let people know, well,
it's not a black pill, to look at the stuff
and properly examine it. But the purpose of it isn't
so that you can then use it for some sort
of left right dialectic like oh and I get more
people to understand this inside. Yeah, yeah, more liberalism, right.
So that's that's what that's my sentiment here is that
the purpose is to properly categorize things. If you're going
to appeal to scripture Christianity, this is what it looks
like to pervert it in some sort of notion towards
the future that you want to craft in your own view.
I feel like that's what Darby did, that he really
perverted and u and turned scripture and the practice and
the faith into some sort of technology toward a end goal.
And from our view, we don't know when that end
goal is, and we couldn't claim that, and so our
job is to practice bring people into the church and
and uh, and it's a much more uh, you know,
we're we're in humility. I mean that view is in
like sort of conquering, dominating, like getting the point across.
And I know people in the chat are frustrated, not
in this chat, but just generally speaking, they want something done.
We're in a culture. We're in a culture our war.
We got to fix this. You know, everybody's fighting this
kind of war. And it's it's kind of difficult to
balance your theological view and practice with some sort of
like utility in the world that you're trying to get
something done and plant your flag. And I know it's
difficult for people because they want those results. And I
don't know if you guys want to add on that,
but how to balance this kind of notion of like
getting results in your culture and winning the cultural war
and planting the flag of victory says, well, that might
not happen. You might have to actually practice Christianity when
you're losing your whole life. So I mean just want
to remind people of that.
Speaker 3: It mustn't be confused with some type of crypto prosperity
gospel that if you're doing the right things, things will
go well in a material sense. Yeah, there's absolutely no
guarantee of it. In fact, you should expect things to
go poor loose. I also keep saying, don't let things
you're you're for be a function of things you're against.
So don't oppose dispensationalism because you're against Israel. That's that's
not a good that's a good point foundation if you
want to support Israel because oh it's a counterbalance to Islam,
it's the only democracy in the Middle East, whatever you want.
Speaker 5: You know, my biggest contention with it is that it's
not christ It's it's not what the Church teaches. It's
not biblical, it's it's heresy.
Speaker 3: That's my because and I am against heresy because I'm
for Orthodoxy. And you can twist yourself into so many
pretzels or bagels, although they're not twisted, you can loop
yourself in so many. But because you're against something, you know, Oh,
I'm against communism, so I'm going to the Bible wants
free markets and low taxes and gun rights like Okay,
if you believe the Bible supports that, don't tell me.
Speaker 5: Because it's against communism. M h right.
Speaker 3: That you can't have these negative things because they are
also very easily manipulated by surreptitious actors. They see you
or against something, so they'll just you know, how I
like to illustrate it is, if you're going to do
the opposite of what I say, I just tell you
to do the opposite of what I want, and then
you do the opposite, and you're again doing.
Speaker 5: What I want you to do.
Speaker 3: This is why everyone who's the names, etc. It's so incomplete,
because people actually have to live their lives. You can't
and even most people don't care. But you can't have
this revolutionary opinion or movement succeed because a lot of
revolutionary thinking is only bound together by the opposition towards
a system. The problem is if the revolution succeeds, then
you have to go into the affirmative and then it
turns out we all disagree and then they start slaughtering
each other.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The fact that the reason I robbed that harbora agreement
that you know about, I forget to mention this is
that in Tragi, help quickly speaks as if the elite
kind of wanted World War one and World War two
and so that they had multiple reasons as to why,
and that agreement shows. One reason is that it allowed
for what's happening in the thirties and forties in the
Middle East, and not everything necessarily went totally according to plan.
But you know, we couldn't be here without where we
are now without World War One and World War two.
So certain entities wanted World War one and World War two.
Speaker 2: So anyway, that's.
Speaker 1: Partly what that explanation with Havaro is about. I have
to run, but I want to thank you for having
me and a really great chat today.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you so much. You want to plug anything,
obviously you stream Jay Dyer. You can find them on
YouTube specific ones you're coming up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if anybody's in the Nashville area and you want
to come to the event Friday and Saturday. I'm speaking
with Jimbob's closest associate, James Lindsay. I think you guys
are you guys have been bff since my Space Dave right, like,
you'all have a point. You get a joint MySpace you shared.
Speaker 4: I think such a dick to that guy. It's because
because I can't get his attention, so I just like
you know, I'm just ankle biting him and just being
like you're wrong, you're wrong, You're wrong.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I'm just onyops.
Speaker 2: So uh, we have mutual friends.
Speaker 5: So I'm agin, are you going to go and stay
like this guy?
Speaker 2: He might not even be there when I'm there. He
might like speak no idea.
Speaker 4: Now there's there's hope for lindsay because you look at
his Instagram and everybody is like, dude, you're still not
dealing with the classical liberal problem and and so from
that view, it's hopeful and I can lighten up a
little bit.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not telling you to light I'm just saying like
he might not even be there when I'm there, because
it's like ten speakers.
Speaker 2: So I'm just speaking at this event that he's speaking.
Speaker 4: What's a topic you're speaking on? Particularly?
Speaker 1: Okay, so I don't know what he's talking on. But
but there's a bunch of other people that have John
Classics speaking. Who does the School World Order book? Anyway,
that's this weekend. You can go to the Cognitive Liberty
Conference dot com if you want to watch that or
come to that Nashville Friday and Saturday, and then you
can get my books at Jays Analysis and in the shop.
I'm working on Estrakla with three and I've got almost
two seventy eighty pages, so that's it's coming along, should
be should be finished maybe the next couple of months.
Speaker 4: So cool. And then the as in the deboot sphere,
the fact that Fresh and Fit had you that's a
pretty big platform and is that something you want to continue?
Obviously you debate whenever you want, but do you see
something promising by transforming some of these sort of like
I would say, they're like you know, you know, they're
dominated by the three h four class of people, but
they have this opportunity to do proper debates and things
like that. Is that something in your experience you thought
was fruitful or it.
Speaker 5: Seems like it.
Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like it's already had you know
across rumble x here, uh maybe four or five.
Speaker 2: Hundred thousand views, which is crazy.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you know, you and Andrew had that viral thing
with West your your other bff.
Speaker 4: The other I'm gonna been texting him along.
Speaker 1: So I mean, you know, I think one reason we
did it was that, you know, Myron I think is
professing a professing Muslim, and we wanted to be willing
to say, you know, we'll come over on your home court, right, Yeah,
I'm open to it, just depending upon you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who it is and what's going on.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I was looking at that and I'm like, obviously,
the Muslim versus Christianity, who's got their metaphysics and epistemology
down properly, which is more coherent, is valuable. But I
find I hope there's a follow up debate, honestly, and
I think you could do this debate as well, Jays
that there's this sort of pushed unity between the two
and this is some that we should pair up with
Islam for a cultural war to fight this evil. And
then and then there's this like this naive take that
at the end, when we fight evil, then we'll figure
out who has the true you know, theology. And it's
like that's not a good.
Speaker 2: Bet identify evil without the world.
Speaker 4: That's right, right, right, yeah, yeah, Sneaker wrote. Sneaker wrote, Muslim,
Islam and Christianity team up against Satan, and I rewrote
it like evil in truth team up against evil. It's like,
you can't you can't take the bait on that even
though it's tempting. It's very tempting, not for me, but
I can see with other people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that debate last night. The main reason I
was happy to do that was that those guys they're
really notorious for kind of running from Sam. Yeah, Sam
knows is lom way better than me. So I really
wanted it just to be the vehicle for Sam to
come on and let let loose against those guys, and
that's seemed to work.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 2: So you know, I don't even I'm not a Muslim
Islam expert, so well.
Speaker 4: You've I mean, you're able to defeat Islam just by
talking about a foot. That's what I learned.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh shit, I mean I always want
to go off into like, you know, all these other
topics and what's happened. I think that Pasha was getting
to about kind of the online The internet is really
being a difficult thing for Islam because people are hearing
now for the first time in the last few years,
not just Christian evangelical goobers on the defensive. So for
a long time, Muslim go out on debate and it's
always Christians on the defensive. Now it's Christians on the offensive,
and then we begin to see how flimsy it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's one thing that the Internet has done is
that the sources are now available. You can go to
Sona dot com exactly and read the hadith. Because when
Muhammed Hijab a couple of years ago had a poll
on Twitter asking what is like? This is anonymous so
you can answer, sincerely.
Speaker 5: You know, what is your.
Speaker 3: Biggest source of doubts in Islam? And he gave like science, scientific,
you know, knowledge claims of other religions. What one out
is the personal morality of Muhammad. So because people are
now getting acquainted with these problems, about about ten years ago,
you would be called islamophobic if you mentioned I shall
be six when he married a nine when he consummated.
But there are worse things, and I think by next
week I'll prepare. I have Jimbob and Andrew on for
the funniest things in Islam. J if you want on,
you're free to come on. It's just the silly things,
you know, Like most punishment of the graves is because
people make mistakes. Urinating because men have to crouch, you know,
squat when they beat. If you don't, Angel will.
Speaker 5: I got to run.
Speaker 2: But thank you guys so much.
Speaker 4: I appreciate Zee man. That's funny. Uh, definitely posh. We
need to interact more so offline so that I can
prepare visuals and memes.
Speaker 3: Make sure we do that, okay, thinking whether that's better,
whether it's better to get organic reactions.
Speaker 4: That's true to you? Well, well the ultimate put it
this way. I'll prepare some visuals and then use them
if I need to in the background, as you know,
put them in my holster. But certainly a list of
the most absurd, right, So it's Hadith and Kuran references
that are most you know, peculiar and strange.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: Sam ruined one of my favorites, which is that a
log is a bit on the wiena by the womb.
Speaker 5: What, by the by the what the womb? The womb?
Who's womb.
Speaker 4: It's not even a brown recluse or anything that.
Speaker 5: We know of, you know, Mega wood something floating about
I suppose, but and he shouts stop.
Speaker 4: It, stop that right now. Yeah, that's gonna be fun.
When is that two weeks we're gonna have.
Speaker 3: I hope I can get it ready by next Thursday
or something. Okay, cool, we're in the middle of a
heat wave. It's it's absolutely hallish. I was wearing a
white beata so bad that I had to put on
this shirt. I was wearing a white beata so wife
beatery that it seemed like I was offering like a service.
Speaker 5: That's house. I liking white beaten for a fair price.
Speaker 4: When you when a Serbian says there's a heat wave,
I assume that they mean there's bombs going off. Like
I don't know the distinction. We're like I was, I'm like, posh,
can you stream next week? And he's like, well, there
are bombs going off in the distance, so I think
it'll be fine.
Speaker 3: Warry Stone quarrying here and you can hear when they
blow up stuff, so that triggers great memories.
Speaker 4: Right right right. You can use that as propaganda if
you want.
Speaker 5: Right, it makes you sound whiny, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: That's true.
Speaker 5: That's true.
Speaker 4: If there's any other chats, I want to go through
and make sure I didn't miss.
Speaker 5: Me too.
Speaker 4: So true, and I'll stick around. Thank you, new members,
Thank you. Shout out to Rachel for ten memberships there.
I'll go over to the Bob chats at the second
because I saw some come in.
Speaker 5: I'll get the other beer.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you get another beer. For those in the chat,
is there any other questions you have? I know maybe
some of you wanted to ask j questions, but time's
a ticking. Shout out to Jay for coming on. Appreciate that.
I hope you guys learned something about dispensationalism. It's perversion
and its impact on modern geopolitics. Not that there's suddenly
a button we can hit where everyone wakes up, as
is the case in the Truther sphere, where you just
open the golden folders and the rays of light bless
upon your face and you're awakened and illuminated for forever.
We don't. We don't hold that view. That's not as
it's not quite that easy, is it. Let me see
twenty dollars, Thank you so much over at Bob Chat.
For the Muslims in the chat, Mohammad prophesied that the
wall of Dull Karnaine Surah Coarnane Uh this is a
parenthesis Surah eighteen eighty three to ninety nine in the Hadiths,
would stand until the last day. There is no massive
wall of iron and copper between two mountains, holding back
armies of fourteen hundred years. Therefore, Muhammadis's false prophet, find
the wall or leave your cult. He didn't say this,
you're all gay.
Speaker 3: That part of what the cornine is going to be
part of the stream, definitely, because for those who do
not know, Vall Karnaine means man of two horns, and
it refers to Alexander the Great, who had this title,
you know, as he went about conquering, he also went
about undergoing ceremonies that would render him the avatar, the
sun or whatever of the local deity, you know, And
he has a depiction of you know, like a helmet
of two horns, etc. So he is the man of
two horns. And these stories reflect what's called the Alexandrian romances,
so it's obviously crypt But as Muhammad went along, he
just picked up stories about local, well known people. And
the Wall of dull knen Is built a country. Remember
it's copper and iron smelted down, you know, And they
built a wall.
Speaker 5: To entrap you. A George and not a George, which
is a rough.
Speaker 3: Equivalent of Gog and Magog. But Gog and Magog in
the Bible are a completely different thing, because yeah, George
and George are basically like these mutant people who outnumber
the Muslims nine hundred and ninety nine to one.
Speaker 5: So is that their nephlom, No, it's it's it's not
the same manufacturing.
Speaker 3: So they are mutated. You know, they have like shield
like faces with tiny eyes. So some have speculated the Chinese,
but uh, well.
Speaker 4: Yes, but what is that is that Serbian piss?
Speaker 3: Well mine might be. That's yeah, it's plumb brandy. It's
it's actually on Unesco.
Speaker 5: It's not about heritage, you know, it's it's one of
the best things you can ever drink. This is why
I never liked whiskey. I grew up with really and
and like all like whiskey and gin wool tasted medicinal
to me, Like I felt like I went into the
medical cabinet and started chugging. But back to you.
Speaker 3: So they're supposed to outnumber the Muslims nine hundred and
ninety nine toy one. So let's say it's not for now,
it's like for when Islam is smaller, and let's say
there's a hundred thousand of them left. If you have
a one hundred thousand times a thousand, that's one hundred million.
So we're supposed to find one hundred million. It's medicine.
It's a medicine for everything, plus a cleaning agent. And
we're supposed to find and again I'm being very generous,
one hundred million people locked somewhere but behind a giant
wall of iron and bronze or copper, doesn't matter, And
they dig every day and they almost break through. But
when they stop, they go back and Allot restores it
during the night.
Speaker 4: But how convenient.
Speaker 5: But one day.
Speaker 3: They won't leave by saying tomorrow we will finish. They
will say tomorrow we will finish in chalah Allah willing,
and then Allah won't restore it.
Speaker 5: So the next day they will finish.
Speaker 3: It and break out, and there will be so many
of them they will drink entire lakes and rivers and.
Speaker 5: It's glory.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it sounds a lot. I mean, I feel like,
I mean, what's her name, Greta Tunberg could have written
Islam based on like the structure of how they're like,
well it will count all this stuff could happen and
then and then it just like you know, it's just
this promise, this promise, this promise, and then there's nothing
that actually corresponds to reality. The only thing about Islam
that corresponds with the reality of human beings and our
our existence over time is Christian It's like, you know,
the only thing that they that they describe accurately, it
seems to be borrowed from a Christian worldview. I don't
know how they get over that. Now they might get
something descriptive things right, but their whole foundation. I always
tell the Muslims who jump on the comments that I
go okay. They say, oh, well, Islam's true, Christianity's false,
And I just simply say, for Islam to be true,
you need Christianity to be partially true. For Christianity to
be true, you need none of Islam to be true.
Speaker 5: So yeah, So I think David would coin the phrase
the Islamic dilemma the Quranic dilemma. But basically.
Speaker 3: The Korana firms the Angel and the tot which is
basically the Gospel and the Torah. So maybe you want
to take a contracted view of those and you know,
just say and Gelokate just the Gospels or the Torah,
just maybe the Pentateuch or something The problem is there's
no way to render it where you either have to
accept the legitimacy. Yes, and everything else.
Speaker 5: Like I mentioned, the Alexandrian romance of the pagan stuff
is also local.
Speaker 4: And a Gnostic, as as our Albanian. The one Albanian
we like the the accordion player. He did a stream.
I would do another one of those, by the way,
because like that's really interesting to track back Islam too
early gnostic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like you like the Jesus wasn't actually crucified,
he was replaced. That's not the universal that's I believe.
It's a majority Islamic view, but not universal. You have
those who don't believe that, and they have their arguments.
But obviously a lot of things. Just as I said,
it's the most improvised religion ever. But what was I
talking about? Yes, the Qur'an basically says you need the Christians,
you need to go to your Angel. The Jews you
need to go to the Torad. And there's a hadith
where Mohammad was asked to solve some dispute after conquering
like a Jewish place, so he's in charge. They go
to him for the dispute and he says, bring me
a copy of the Torah. And they bring him a
copy of the Torah. And he gets up from the cushion.
Speaker 5: He's sitting on.
Speaker 3: Right, this is the Middle East, and they use chairs
because wood is hella expensive, as the children say nowadays.
And he places the scroll on the cushion as a
sign of reverence and he says, I believe in you
and the one who revealed you. Right, so he confirms it.
There are critiques of the Jews and Christians that we
pervert the meaning. That's a completely different thing. And then
there's the passages where the Muslims are cheering for what
we call the Byzantine Empire, right, the Roman Empire against
the Persians, because the Persians are Zoroastrians, the fire worshipers
as they're called there, and the Romans are the people
of the book because they're Christian. They have revelation of Allah.
Now we're talking about seventh century Byzantium.
Speaker 5: Things were.
Speaker 3: Handled at that point as far as what constitutes the
New Testament. So if Muhammad was saying these people, we're
cheering for these people because they have the revelation of Allah,
that means that what they had is the revelation of Allah.
Not to mention also that they say, oh, Jesus came
to the Jews, and a portion of them accepted him,
another portion rejected him, and Allah will until the judgment
day make sure that the ones who accepted him were
made superior. So those who accepted Christ will be kept
superior until judgment day to those who rejected. And because
it can't be the trinitarians. Obviously we are all idolators
and polytheists, right, So who are these people?
Speaker 5: Then? Yeah? Right? Is there some super.
Speaker 3: Secret Jewish sect that's monotheistic And basically it would have
to be Muslim, so it makes no sense. As they said,
it's winging it. But then they latch onto things like, oh,
the Trinity is illogical, as if you can just impose
logic on what God is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that brings up you mentioned seventh seventh century. I
don't know if it's six or seven. I don't know
if it matters. But Jay's hypotheticals is a pretty sharp
knife against the islam debater, isn't it.
Speaker 5: That that's the Islamic dilemma?
Speaker 3: Because if the scriptures we have are unreliable, then the
Koran is wrong if they are reliable and they contradict
the Quran, then Islam is wrong. Yeah, so it's wrong
either way. So they will go it's corrupted. But we
can prove Mohammed from.
Speaker 4: So because like this, the Quran is right and it's
based on scripture. The parts that are wrong about scripture
are wrong because it doesn't go with the Quran.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it doesn't have to make sense.
Speaker 4: It just don't even. You don't even need three beers
to laugh at that. Wow, and they don't see a
problem with it. They just fart. They just fart. Well,
I have no response, so I think Jay should start
fo rhetorics. Did you watch that debate? By the way,
all the way through? Are just gonna get snippets or
what get too?
Speaker 3: Because it started at midnight and today I was preparing
mostly for this dream, so I have to finish it.
I did get a sizeable portion in, but ultimately I
have to sleep as well.
Speaker 4: Who farted his opponent? The squeaky guy, the squeaky moles
mole sounding guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that guy got into a lot of trouble for
racially abusing some Chinese Christians.
Speaker 5: Che there are good sides to him. Your job, job,
redeeming qualities.
Speaker 4: Uh in a timesta. Go to Jay's social media. He
did a pretty good job of putting it on every
single one.
Speaker 5: Of his accounts, like goes into the gym and like
plays it on the TV.
Speaker 4: Part poor guy. All as fart is all as fart
is all as fart like any human part.
Speaker 5: Uh actually doesn't have an anus? Oh right, right, right,
there's the difference between Adam.
Speaker 4: And Oh really, Oh it's serious. Oh you're not even
being facetious. Well, I can't even tell. I can't even
tell when when Pasha is refuting Islam. I don't know
when he's being sarcastic or not. That's how bad Islam is.
Speaker 5: You have no idea how, and I will introduce it
to you and Andrew if.
Speaker 4: Was oh yeah, we should do. That's a party. Are
you kidding me? Four of us watching like looking over
the most funny things about Islam?
Speaker 5: Are you kidding me? Do you know how horrible it
is for me to have all of these in mind
right now and not be able to.
Speaker 4: Not say them. No, no, don't room y.
Speaker 5: I gotta secause I believe the better.
Speaker 4: Creating in its Actually I want to go over that
real quick. Before we finish up the this seems to
be fatal. The question is the is the Quran uncreated?
Because they view similar to a Protestant who sees the
Bible as some sort of like uh, immaterial eternal feature
of reality that just happens to materialize itself with no
tradition or history. Similarly, are you saying that the when
you ask, when we ask is the Quran uncreated, we're
asking a similar question right where we're saying, like, is
this thing itself, uh, the the revelator, the reflector of
revelation itself as an item, as an object.
Speaker 3: I'll explain the logic to you, just because Jay says
there are actual thought or deeds. So there's one where
that ravon Show Jay where the chip runs away from
hearing Muslim prayers and farts do not hear them? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
no no no no no no no no no, no
like that exactly. There is a deep that has been
popularized recently that the eyes of the leather straps of
the anus okay, which means that while you're awake, you
know you have control.
Speaker 4: Over the demons come unto your butt. Right, that's a
weak spot.
Speaker 3: It's that while you're sleeping, you could fart, and unless
you do your ablutions, like your ritual cleansings, your prayer
won't count. That's why when you wake up you have
to do your ablutions, because you might have farted in
during your sleep.
Speaker 5: Okay, so far, very important.
Speaker 4: Okay Alas Messenger said in the When There, when they're
don is pronounced, Satan takes to his heels and pass
his wind. Satan farts with noise during his flight in
order to not hear the Adam. So there he is, yep,
fart defense.
Speaker 5: He attribute.
Speaker 10: How do you?
Speaker 5: How do you teach that?
Speaker 4: I mean, this is the kind of thing like you know,
like like if we were in like divine liturgy and
our priests was all and then God, you know, farting
to make sure you don't hear ship, we wouldn't even
know what to do with it. Like like that's just
like now now there is. The Muslims would say, that's
not fair. We don't accept all the hadiths because these
are sort of like these higher uh, this kind of
an elected symposium of smarty pants people looking back right,
you know, to be fair, The hadiths is a collection
right of of reflection or philosophical reflection on the Quran, right,
is that is that accurate? It's like a it's like
a post sort of.
Speaker 5: Very post Kuranic because okay, yeah, I have this guy
called the teeth.
Speaker 4: That's good.
Speaker 3: Uh, this guy called Bohari al Bahari, and I can't
remembers one or two centuries after Muhammad.
Speaker 5: He goes from basically Central Asia.
Speaker 4: The sorry, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 5: So he goes over to a saudio not Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 4: But philosophy fair enough.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he collects the oral traditions and there's a
whole methodology as to how reliable it is, you know,
the chain of narrations, like this guy's Muhammad said this,
and he said it to this guy. This guy said
it to this guy what they called the chain of narration,
and that's how you get you you know, the grading system,
you know, and sometimes in the chain of narration, there's
a guy who's known to be unreliable, so you rejected.
The gradacious system is basically you've got four potentially four
and a half gradings, So you've got the rejected ones.
Speaker 5: I can't remember the world for that. Something with the
starts with an M.
Speaker 3: Then you've got the weak ones called dai, which means
you know, we're not too sure, but it gets a
passing grade. You know, this is very important because people
tell you, oh, that day, we don't have to believe that. Meanwhile,
you no, you actually do. It's just that it's not
as reliable as the next one, which is hassan, which
means good. So it's pretty solid, you know. Then you
get sahei, which means sound, and that's for proof. That
gets an a as far as gradings go. And I
said four and a half because you have a subset
of sahih hadiz called mota water, which means repeated. Okay,
so you get them from multiple sources.
Speaker 5: They align. So it's.
Speaker 3: So you have scholars who say rejecting water is like
rejecting a versus the Koran. And then obviously you get
the Quran. You also have like sonas, which is so
means life. That's where you give the terms sunny because
they're following the son I think that's how it's said,
the life of the profit of Alah. Right, so that's
why they dress a certain way, they behave a certain
way because they're emulating the life of Muhammad. Right, That's
what Sunni means Ali, which means the followers are Ali.
That's a different thing, but that's where you get. You
also have the sears, which are the commentaries on on
on these topics. But his how it works in practice.
It can be any of the grades except the rejected,
if it works in their favor, like, oh, Mohammad fed
like a starving.
Speaker 5: Wolf for no warriors. But oh, this is great, this
is just prutful hope.
Speaker 4: If that's true.
Speaker 5: Muhammad was apparently a red head, that.
Speaker 4: Makes definitely false if he was a redhead.
Speaker 3: Related to Elizabeth. I've heard that it was a process
of dyeing your beard. You have certain clerics who do
that nowadays.
Speaker 4: Why because it's like a holy color or something.
Speaker 5: I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
Speaker 3: Obviously, you could say like red was associated with royalty,
which is why when you look at our iconography you
see Christ where has red underneath blue over that because
he is God who has taken on humanity.
Speaker 5: And then with the.
Speaker 3: Theotokos, she wears blue underneath and red over because she's human,
but has been granted this royal status as the mother
of God, the queen Mother by you know, it's granted,
but I'm not sure that's just a slightly important speculations.
Speaker 4: Have not said to make fun of Oh no, oh,
you're saying, like our joke about the Islam. No, we're
making light of Islam. Okay, we're not making light of
the Holy Liturgy or anything else.
Speaker 5: I mean you would have to go argue with the
prophet Elijah.
Speaker 4: We're fully making fun of Islam. We're not just because
we're using a reference. We're making fun of their iteration
of these things.
Speaker 3: Okay, Right, so that people draw conclusions, oh, he was
a redhead, I sincerely do that Not impossible because you've
got this Indo European strand going from all the way
to northern India.
Speaker 5: So possible. But the courage.
Speaker 3: Not particularly known what what is very emphasized in the
hoodie that he was very very white.
Speaker 4: Are there even any historical references of very powerful people
who were redheads and had that very irritated skin? Look,
Genghis Khan was a red head.
Speaker 3: Barbarossa, uh Friedrich Barbarossa, the Emperor the Holy Roman Empire.
Barbarossa is literally Italian for red beard.
Speaker 5: So he D Sims in our chat.
Speaker 4: D Sims is the only one I like that I
know of.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so there are some I suppose, and you know
the Irish. So as long again, there's a very silly religion.
That's why I want to.
Speaker 3: Make it like a fun thing, because there are there
are silly aspects that aren't particularly fun.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well let me know in advance, because I
can animate too, Like if there's any like a break
time that I can make an animation that could potentially
get us killed, I should should we should do that?
Because I can do that. You just got to give
me a heads up, like maybe there's like a little
section of a minute that I can make something or.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll have to calculate it without consulting you, because
I'd have to tell you what you need to know
without your knowing whether you are.
Speaker 4: Yeah without me, well you might have to forfeit me
laughing one to one on the phone with you, and
I'll laugh again, of course, like you won't ruin.
Speaker 5: The experience watching with friends. But I'll pick some out
I can give it, like general spoilers, like you have
no idea, how glorious their idea of how babies are born?
Speaker 4: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 5: Because women have to wait. I can't wait there's a
male sperm and the female spam.
Speaker 4: That's it's actually, it's actually funny because I just I
was thinking of a game where while you were talking,
I was playing a game with myself on Google trying
to write hadif about X whatever it is, and sperm
was one of the things I inserted, like headeth about sperm,
hardeeth about donkeys, hoodeeth about it's called hardeeth about is
the game I play and I see if it comes
up as something. I think it's a fun game.
Speaker 5: They have collections of it, you.
Speaker 4: Know, so be like a home board game teeth or not?
Is this in her teeth or not?
Speaker 10: Right?
Speaker 4: You read something ridiculous like there's no way, there's no way.
You're like, oh, it actually is. Everyone drinks, you know.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: And by the way, all the things about like sex
and drinking and stuff that are prohibited are prohibited at
the moment.
Speaker 4: No, no, no, this is coping. If you're defending right now. No,
we're not talking about liquid. We didn't say liquid. No,
did we say liquid?
Speaker 3: Liquids that come together and make a child, and it
determines which one comes first, determines whom the child will resemble.
And this isn't this did exist in surrounding cultures.
Speaker 4: By the way, blood is liquid too, so I mean
you're trying to reduce it to something more broad.
Speaker 5: The male sperm you can call.
Speaker 4: It the are you he's saying it's he's saying you're
using the term sperm, and it's really they're using the
term liquid.
Speaker 5: Is that what it is?
Speaker 3: Here's the thing. Sperm basically means seed. I this was
my famous statement when I was on Jay's stream. No
one confuses like sperm meaning seed. No one's going to
say Johnny Apple sperm.
Speaker 4: They should they should.
Speaker 5: Now on technically you could, but in English that's not
how it works. But sperm basically means seed. So there's
a so you can call it the.
Speaker 3: Liquid, but it's a seminus liquid, you know, something that
has to do with reproduction. And it describes that the
male seed is thick and white, the female seed is
thin and yellow. So they're basically describing urine and one
of the sperm one of the fame favorite words. Since
we're enumerting your best friends the Lord king, so basically
describing squirting as as some type of seminal fluid.
Speaker 4: So it's ancient so the modern take, you know, unfortunately,
we're we're, we're we're basically undated with it online. But
there's this, there's this this myth of quote squirting or
whatever it's, you know, and it's been pissed all along.
And what you're saying it sounds like posh. Now, I
don't want to falsely accuse you of this, but it
sounds like you're blaming Islam for this myth.
Speaker 5: I may or may not. I'm going to maintain wait
until next week when but it says that they come together,
and that's how you start avy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what's that?
Speaker 5: Is that?
Speaker 4: Male or female?
Speaker 5: We don't know, do we?
Speaker 10: I know?
Speaker 3: But embryology is definitely like reliant on like very ancient
medicinal knowledge.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is umbressed just as it's a.
Speaker 3: Fun part so I can say it here. Yeah, it
also gets where they stem from. But just so you know,
just so you know, male sperm does not come from
the testicles. That's that's what idiots think comes from the
now interesting that this is what Islam teaches. But when
they got African slaves, they knew how to castrate.
Speaker 4: Interesting, that's a weird thing to do. When the first
premise is true.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 3: Back to this, which isn't again, this isn't fun. It's
a bit sad because that's how they got the knowledge.
But it shows how ridiculous it is.
Speaker 5: They say that.
Speaker 3: That's basically at the start of the process of the
formation of human being in the womb.
Speaker 5: It's a blood clot.
Speaker 3: And then it develops on and on, you know, sids
getting bones in the meat on the bones. The reason
I say it's sad is because a lot of these
speculations stem from a knowledge of miscarriages, you know, and
after you see what comes out, you know, after a miscarriage.
Speaker 5: You know, you sort of have to work with that.
So they squirting is from the hearts. More ridiculous than that.
It's so random. No one's going to guess it unless
you cheat and look it up right or no, it
already but you couldn't guess for the life of you.
Neither could I. But basically they get this.
Speaker 3: You have Greek writings on this, you have Persian writings
on this. You know, they basically have an idea that
because if both animals and human beings have miscarriages, you
get this, you know, rejected fetus and it's just bloody
and gory, and that's they somehow deduce from that or
try to reverse engineer. Okay, so it started like some
type of blood and then develops more and more, and
if it fails at a certain point, you know, we
get this. But if it fully gets to the point
of development, then we get a human being, which is
not something I would say. Oh, so the Greeks will
retarded because they couldn't figure it out. No, but the Quran,
which claims that it starts through a blood clot, the
Quran doesn't claim to be the musings of Greek philosophers
or Persians or Indians or whomever whoever. It claims to
be the revelation of an old knowing God. So that's
a problem for Islam.
Speaker 4: Did you have this one planned? I hate to ruin
all your jokes ahead of time, posh, But if a
man has sex with a sheep and one of the
thought was that sheep gives birth to a human, if
that's the case, if that happens, he can lead prayers.
Are you saying the sheep could lead prayers or the
man who who actually produced a child through a sheep
could lead prayers. I'm hard to tell.
Speaker 3: That that's not something I know. I'll have to look
it up because there are passages. Again, I won't be
including like gross gross.
Speaker 4: Things, yeah, just funny general.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I want to give it light.
Speaker 3: But there is like, oh, you have to do this
ritual if you have sex with a camel or something
going on on the hudge all right, the pilgrimage.
Speaker 4: If you happen did need to have sex with a camel,
make sure to make these preparations correct. Point is that
where camel skin came from.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: But there's a point which Mohammed says, he sees a
very good looking woman and so there's a lot to
cheat on his wife. He runs to his wife, who is, uh,
they're dealing with leather production, which in wolves done for
those who don't know, and you're, okay, that's what people have,
so I'm not saying they were primitive. That's something nowadays
can deal with due to advanced chemistry.
Speaker 5: And he just goes on at her. Oh God, just
when is this one of the most disgusting smells you
could imagine? What is.
Speaker 8: Like the leather production, the leather working, like the leather tanning.
I suppose that's what my last name is posh. It's
an insult to me. What that my last name?
Speaker 4: My real last name is leather worker in Italian.
Speaker 5: Oh, I never can remember your last name, Terry.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I tell you that. I didn't tell you the
time I went to Italy and I I ran down
the town and I kept running into these little little
shops that had my name on it, and I showed
to show the shop owner my license. That's like equivalent
to coming to America and going into a Ralph's. Posh,
you don't know. Ralph's is just basically grocery store and
bragging to the clerk that your your name is Ralph.
It's meaningless.
Speaker 5: It's American to go, yes, look at my name.
Speaker 4: It means you're the name of your store.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: They're just like, get out of here, dude. Yeah, well
that's good to know. We need to come up with
a good name of this stream. It's gonna be on
your channel correct, Yeah, okay, good. So potentially me, you,
Andrew and and Jay uh manifesting absurd hadith's and references
perhaps in the Quran and maybe adding some visuals to it,
you know, yours truly will help with that.
Speaker 3: So there's one I wouldn't include for the disgustingness. But
he says nothing can make water impure. So there's an
episode where he does his ablution in like a like
a pit that's full of water, but also where you
have corpses of dogs and like where people where women
throw their menstrual rags.
Speaker 5: So he's like, that's it's not even menstrual rags. Both stop.
Speaker 3: Uh he's washing himself with that and people, what are
you doing? He says, nothing can make water impure. He
also has a theory that you don't have infectious diseases
because how will we get the first disease?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 4: Actually, it makes me want to look now that I
have this this thing called I want to start in
app the hadith says could you believe it? Or something
like that hadith about drinking urine? I mean we can
just go that's fair.
Speaker 5: Right, different? Different? Yeah, different, including a w h R
but who cas but different like charities and like doctors,
boarders whatever. I had to say, please stop drinking count.
Speaker 4: Right, stop it please? Not yeah or not that's a
good one, critic, that's the one that's good. Either not downloaded,
it's free on the app, you knoweth or not you
have to vote, right, can you imagine like like, well,
the problem is with given time, people would just memorize
too much and it would.
Speaker 5: Like it have it would have a shelf life quickly,
and we have to get someone like Sam.
Speaker 4: Right right, right, But imagine the rating like how many
you got right? And people are high rating on the
app as like people they're like, oh, ship, you got
like a thousand and twenty.
Speaker 5: On whether you want to poast it because maybe it
can't go right in.
Speaker 4: Your name preparing for sex with camel.
Speaker 5: And here's the thing, here's the thing.
Speaker 3: These these people like Hockey Kachu and Jaida Jars, like
they wanted to think that Islam is about monotheism. VI
you just accept one God, you know, Yeah, that's it.
That's that's that's very manipulative. Yeah, no, this is the
argument that was Rachel retweeted my response to Lauren Chen. Yeah,
but Lauren n saying, oh do you know that Arab
Christians called God a lah?
Speaker 5: So you shouldn't make fun of a lot like and
im not nothing personal against Lauren Chen, like she she
is getting progressively more based.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's still a female though, so she can never
make the full jump.
Speaker 5: He's like half Slanti. That's just one of them. Okay,
we're not going to get banned for anti Semitism, but
we're working on any other.
Speaker 4: I want why want Lauren Chen come on my podcast?
I don't know, m.
Speaker 5: All right, she's half.
Speaker 3: Oh god, yeah, let's make Let's make a video so
everyone knows how to defend.
Speaker 5: Disposition?
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah. Did you watch the stream on dispensation? It
was really serious, really rigorous, really in depth.
Speaker 5: Jay was on.
Speaker 4: I don't know. Did you stick around when Jay left though?
I don't know. I don't know what happened there.
Speaker 5: We're gonna have to private this and then cut off.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna chop. It's gonna just be an abrupt chop
when Jay Ley and'll be like, all right, got some
stuff coming up in Nashville.
Speaker 5: You gotta you're gonna pop up? You sure you want
to continue? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, would you like to continue? Please check? You know, please?
Is this a rope?
Speaker 10: You know?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 4: Please select where a bike is on the image?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Maybe maybe you will need to actually chop it
up as to be shareable. That's true, because we're getting
into like, what four hours.
Speaker 4: It's insane. So it's so counterintuitive.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. So when someone sends me like four hours,
was like, i'd better be just look at it. What
are you kidding me? And and then I need to think,
like like, if I'm going to the gym, I might.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I'll chop that part off, make that members
only and be like I'd need this section where Pash
and Jimbaber kind of drunk making fun of Asian people.
The most important part of it about the dispensationalist. Amazing,
really in depth informative.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So back to the point she was talking about
a lot, and I said, made the point about bail.
You know, bail just means Lord, and worshiping bail means
sacrificing children. Allah is Lord, It's one of his titles.
So sacrificing children to bail is worshiping a lot, right right, Logically,
this is the logic we're going with. And people started
disputing with me, and then someone from from our community, yeah,
just agreed, you know, and I came up with another,
uh example.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Jimbob, I found this, you know,
it was just on your computer and it says it says, uh,
sex with camels drinking urine.
Speaker 4: What to Islam. What does Maslam say about semens prep
it's preparation for stream with Posh. With Posh, I swear.
Speaker 5: With Andrew, it's more believable with yah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe that's the trick of Islam tricking Christians into
looking up really messed up ship.
Speaker 5: Standing in the bi.
Speaker 4: Only camels.
Speaker 5: Oh, I know where David would an apostive prophet.
Speaker 3: There's a common commentator like a regular yeah runs who
goes by only goats.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've seen that so yeah, so it's been done
with goats.
Speaker 4: The rapture. It's going to happen by the time the
stream is over.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Basically if we keep talking like.
Speaker 5: This is now saying Jesus come quickly right right, yet
they stop?
Speaker 4: May get stop? Okay where it is?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, is there anything else, Posh? We should close
this out? I hope not.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Thanks for the support. New members, Thank you. Shout out
to everyone who bob chatted super Chatted and became a member.
Anyone who bought something unmade by jimbob dot com. The
memes keep coming, the streams make the memes, apparently, Posh
and I will announce I'll talk with them offline when
we set a date. I think, posh, we should set
it at least a week ahead of time, if not more,
because of the anticipation of such a funny concept and
the kind of ship we're going to get back from.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, in the stream, I constantly think, okay, maybe
we should add this. Maybe it's too much, So I'm
ridiculous in that manner.
Speaker 4: No, it's gonna be great. It's gonna be highly populated stream. Jab,
can you look up Sarah sixty five in the Koran
and tell us what you think it says, Well, well.
Speaker 5: It's already been addressed on this channel with what is it?
Sam Fellow because it talks about divorce and it says
when you can divorce. So for women who menstruate, you
have to wait three menstrual cycles, okay. And for those
who are too old to menstruate and those who have
not yet menstruate it the wait period is three months.
Speaker 4: So they're assuming that your wife is pre menstrual, which means.
Speaker 3: Pre it's gonna be any of them, so at least
they've got that. But someone I know, Muhammed Hijab, went
to a speaker's corner and started arguing with people who
are what they call Koran only Muslims and quoted this
Aya means verse, sorrow means chapter. He says it allows
for a severe form of pedophilure. So that's how he's
trying to defend the hardth. He says, you need hardith
to stop this. Herd eth are not much better, but
there is no lower limit. So it says, you know,
those who are too old or those who have not
yet menstruated, And all the commentaries are clear that it's
about too young to have, you know, a chieved maturity
physically to start.
Speaker 5: So you don't have to look it up. I know
that one. It's a very famous one.
Speaker 4: You want to, Oh, I see you were You wanted
me to just look it up and kind of react.
Sorry about that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we had someone trying to filibuster that interpretation, but
it's very clear.
Speaker 3: It's just people who who will tell you if it's
if we don't have to accept it, it's not the Quran.
But when it's the Krano will mangle it up to
make it seem like it's not saying what it's saying.
Speaker 4: Posh, do you think arguing against Islam or arguing against
atheism are they do you think that two are equal
in priority because I'm I've been I've been struggling with
this because I have such a fun niche of just
attacking atheism because it's so stupid. But now you're proving
that there's something actually dumber than that, Oh that happens
to be more cohesive somehow. Isn't that interesting that like,
something dumber can be more hesive because it.
Speaker 3: Gets dogmatic and dogma allows for cohesion. Atheism is just like, well,
there's no.
Speaker 4: God, empirical dogma, that's it.
Speaker 5: You can be a pine Creek doug. Yeah, but.
Speaker 3: You can also be you know, some complete degenerate. So
that's why we talk about cohesion because that's the only
claim of atheism. It doesn't mean although most of them
end up some type of ridiculous progressive.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you don't have to.
Speaker 3: You can be just the most you know, either a
racialist or sexist or whatever type of person. It has
no bearing on it.
Speaker 5: You would have to take a separate position in order
to fight for or against.
Speaker 4: Yeah, do you agree with this statement? Is it easier
because I talked about this and I actually took the
opposite approach, But I don't know, is my impulse it
was like I thought it was harder, might be harder
to convert a Muslim because you're you're really probably talking
about a whole history inherited view of dogma that's much
harder to get over than let's say, an apathetic atheist
who's is kind of like bitchy about gods in general.
But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe because someone presupposes God, it's
easier to make a bridge than someone who presupposes non God.
I actually don't even know how to come to the
conclusion about this.
Speaker 3: I think I think it's a pointless thing to ponder
because if someone comes from a strict Muslim family and
from a Muslim family, as I said earlier on when
Jay was on, like they have a sense of duty
towards their family, they have a fear of retaliation potentially
because apostasy is punishable by death, and that can even
affect the family, not you know, maybe mob violence or something.
I don't believe it's prescribed to you know, punish the family,
but it might happen, you know, by osmosis or something.
But again, if you have some well Muslim you know,
which is a lot of them, like here in Serbia,
Muslim we have a part that is majority of muslim I.
Basically they don't eat pork and that's about it. They
get wasted all the time, so alcohol isn't.
Speaker 5: Even the thing.
Speaker 3: But you know, a person like that we had I
was on with Garrett Dawn a couple of weeks ago
and we had this guy who grew up Muslim in
Bosnia moved to London to work and we had to
talk with him, and he was very open to it
because it didn't grow up in a dogmatic family. As
long as it's rather pacified in our parts because we
went through communism and communism clammed down and religiosity and
with the resurgence of Christianity with Orthodoxy, it doesn't produce
you know, like extremism. It can, but it usually has
to be paired with like nationalism.
Speaker 4: Or wait a second, hold on, posh. I think this
might be the first thing we really disagree with. What's
wrong with extremism.
Speaker 5: I'm not saying there's wrong, something morally wrong potentially, because
it would have to depend on what you view as moderate,
and that's going to and even moderates can be extreme
if you think it's a moderate position to trans the children.
I think you will be extremist.
Speaker 3: I think the properly moderate thing would be okay, if
there are children struggling with the gender identity. You know,
it could be a lot of factors, you know, lack
of a father figure or a mother figure, some type
of trauma or something. So yes, I think it's I
think another extreme would be just you know, it's not
beating the child or something, just enforce it, you know,
by ignoring the fact that there's probably something wrong it
needs to be helped and healed. But when we're talking
about Islamic extremism or even like it's Orthodox extremism, would
be like monasticism.
Speaker 4: Right, right, there's no other way because it wouldn't be
based in h immediacy. Cultural revolution kind of like stuff.
Speaker 3: Right, you can form a certain type of zealotry with
if you combine it with a certain type of nationalism.
Speaker 4: Zeal like if you took an Orthodox zeal like New
Convert zeal instead of going to the church, they took
their zeal and impaired it with like a groper.
Speaker 5: Exactly. If you orthodoxy is like a cultural marker, hm.
You know, you follow, you know, you go to church
and everything, but like the theology doesn't particularly matter. Matter
is just what you are, what you subscribe to. Sure,
and I think it's outstandingly.
Speaker 3: Improper to go yeah, and Zealots were literally these types
of people, like people would kill Roman officials.
Speaker 5: To try and get it.
Speaker 4: I'd be a zealot, I honestly, you know. You know Peterson,
there's a clip of him being like, I'm not sure
what I would do under the circumstances. Sometimes when I
look at the culture, I do have this, you know,
the dark side of me goes. I may you know,
given the right circumstances, I might actually be drawn to
sort of active zelotry. I mean, just have to admit it.
That's just how I feel now. I would like to
fight it and like call Posh and Jay and my
brothers and be like, hey, walk me out of this.
But I'd be lying to say I didn't have like
an impulse toward well, you know something, Sometimes you just
want to take.
Speaker 3: The you know, you just want to the thing people
are saying in the comments in the chat zealot, I'm
a zealot. That's because nowadays we see zeal as basically commitment,
you know, and I strongly believe in this. I won't
compromise it. That's not what Zelot meant. Now, that's just
part of basically like a like a terrorist group speak.
So unless you think you're going to be okay, shouldn't
say it.
Speaker 4: Maybe now I really have to edit the stream.
Speaker 3: So unless you're thinking of going violent, Like you're not
a zealot in the classical sense, but if you're a
zealot in the modern sense, great, have all the zealan
in the world for the Lord.
Speaker 5: I support it.
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, anything else you want, I'm gonna start
shutting this down. I heard my family come back in.
We have to go somewhere.
Speaker 5: Lestally unaware you're saying of my own life.
Speaker 4: Uh go follow the posh redneck over YouTube. We I
will post it when he has a thumbnail. If you
need help with that posh, I'd like to make a
good thumbnail if you want for that stream. It's so funny.
Speaker 5: Well we'll figure it out. If you say you need
a week notice, we'll we'll do it for not the
next week but the one after. Because it's so bloody hot,
I can't do anything serious. It's literally like one hundred
and ten. That's aximal, like seventy minimal disgusting. Just everything
is sticky, and.
Speaker 3: I might go live on the weekend talk about something less,
less academic, like I've been thinking about how there are
no more classes in the classical sense. We're all middle
class basically just depends on how much money you make,
because that's an interesting one you make.
Speaker 5: That's that's what we've got.
Speaker 3: But that's true, and people like Jimmy Dare and all
these people are trying to we need to unite as
a working class. Doesn't matter if you are a progressive
or a Trump supporter. You know, we need to fight
the system. And I'm thinking you can't really make a
movement out of Hey, we make roughly the same amount
of money.
Speaker 4: Let's get together, right, Yeah, you can.
Speaker 3: Make a negative case for fighting the system, but as
I said, you, if you succeed now you have to
implement a different system.
Speaker 5: And yeah, we're all disagreeing, vehement.
Speaker 4: It's so true. It's very true. I always say that
you could never take the low class out of me,
because if I'm certainly in Dad with a million dollars,
I'll still be following the odd person around the party room.
You know, Oh is that shrimp like classless, like just
eating off of places.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but so many technology has changed so many historical
realities that there is no thing is classes as as
mocks would have described them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's good. We'll talk offline posh about the
the the Islam. I think that's a hilarious idea. I
don't think it's done quite. It hasn't really been done
because most of it's so serious. Oh, let's debate his lom,
let's get really into it. But this is gonna be.
Speaker 5: I had a woman like ripped by camels because she
was mocking him. Like, people go for that.
Speaker 4: That's actually, actually that's pretty fun. That's actually see I
find that funny. So we'll include that. Uh okay, so yeah,
go follow the posh redneck shout out to Jade Eyer
for jumping out. I appreciate that. I'll keep this up.
I'll review it. I might repost sections so it's easily consumed.
And and uh, I think that's it for me. I'm
going to play us out with what I brought us
in with, which is God bless you, Pasha, see you man, Machel.
Speaker 8: HELLI I have a.
Speaker 11: Little I made it out of play where it's trying Betty,
it's been Dreda, I shall play f I made that
out of play, And when it's trying Betty and Dreda,
I shall play. It has a lovely body. It's with
Lexo Short and Thinness. When when it is so tired,
indress and then I went Adrad come made it out
of play.
Speaker 5: Where's trying by its bea.
Speaker 11: Draino is always playful and loves to dance and spin
a happy game of trail on complaint out It's begin tradle, cradle, traidle.
Speaker 5: I've made it out of claim and when it's trying.
Speaker 11: Cradle, I made it out of claims. And when it's trying,
ready and read.
Speaker 4: Audio. Friends, God bless you all,