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Go to zip recruiter, calm, 48 00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:09.199 slash murder, zip recruiter the smartest way to hire Good 49 00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:12.919 evening on a warm night in September nineteen eighty five, 50 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:17.960 teenagers Kimberly Dowell and Ethan Dixon were brutally murdered in 51 00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:22.639 west Side Park in Munsey, Indiana. Their killer has never 52 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:26.319 been charged. Early on, police focused on a family member 53 00:03:26.360 --> 00:03:29.360 of one of the teens as a primary suspect. The 54 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:34.039 investigation even ruled out fantastic scenarios, including a theory that 55 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:38.240 the perpetrator was a dungeon and dragon's devote The case 56 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:42.360 grew cold. Only decades later did a dogged police investigator 57 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:45.039 narrow the scope to a suspect whose name has never 58 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:50.800 been publicly revealed until now. Keith Roysden and Douglas Walker, 59 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:55.159 authors of Wicked Munsey and Munseye Murder in Mayhem, have 60 00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:58.840 followed the investigation into the West Side Park murders for decades, 61 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:02.120 and for the first time Time report the complete and 62 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:06.919 untold story. The book that we're profiling this evening is 63 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:11.479 The West Side Park Murders, Monsey's most notorious cold case, 64 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:15.960 with my special guest journalist and author Keith Roysden. Welcome 65 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:17.959 to the program, and thank you so much for this interview. 66 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:22.920 Keith Roysden, thanks for having me. Dan, thank you so much. 67 00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:28.040 Let's start with how you came to be involved with this, 68 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:32.600 and also we mentioned your co author, Douglas Walker. Give 69 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:36.720 us your background that led to this as well your 70 00:04:36.759 --> 00:04:42.120 professional background and also your connection to this area of Monsey, Indiana. 71 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:48.439 Mounsey is about forty five minutes fifty minutes north east 72 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:53.000 of Indianapolis, and it has a long history as a 73 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:56.600 blue collar town. The one that also has the strange 74 00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:01.639 kind of cultural artifact because the sociological study from the 75 00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:05.360 nineteen twenties, and it's been mentioned in many pop culture 76 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:10.079 venues like Close Encounters of the Third Kind. The opening 77 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:13.360 scenes of the movie were set in Monthly, So Munsey's 78 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:18.600 always been this kind of strange microcosm of the nation. 79 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:24.639 But also it is this hot mid over the decades 80 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:35.000 of crime, corruption, fairly unsavory elements, so as newspaper reporters, 81 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:39.759 and Doug is still an active newspaper reporter for the 82 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:43.560 Star Press newspaper here in Muncie. I took a buy 83 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:46.959 out a couple of years ago before we started work 84 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:53.240 on the West Side Park Murders book, so as newspaper reporters, 85 00:05:53.319 --> 00:05:58.959 we had come into contact many times with some pretty 86 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:04.480 interesting stories. The Westside Park murders occurred in as you said, 87 00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:10.439 September nineteen eighty five, and I believe the first article 88 00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:13.879 that we Dug and I wrote about the murders was 89 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:18.199 in nineteen ninety seven, and at that time we kind 90 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:23.519 of recapped the case and had the first really public 91 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:30.000 statements from Kimberly's stepfather, who had lived under this cloud 92 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:36.040 of suspicion for twelve years. And after nineteen ninety seven, 93 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:41.000 we continued to write when there would be a significant 94 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:48.000 development or a significant anniversary, and in twenty ten we 95 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:53.519 kind of informally launched a series that we did called 96 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:58.399 Cold Case Munsey, which was about I had to count 97 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:00.319 them up the other day because I wasn't sure how 98 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:04.639 many had appeared. It was about more than thirty four 99 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:13.040 unsolved murders here in Munsey and Delaware County, and it 100 00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:16.560 seemed natural to start with the West Side Park case 101 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:21.120 because it was the one that everyone remembers. I personally 102 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:25.639 liked giving some publicity to once where the victims had 103 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:30.120 been totally forgotten over the decades. There was nothing remotely 104 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:35.360 resembling an active investigation, not even a cold case. Really, 105 00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:39.079 they were totally forgotten. The West Side Park was not 106 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:43.680 forgotten by people. It had left a real I don't 107 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:46.319 know scar is the right word, but it definitely left 108 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:49.759 a mark on the community because of the nature of 109 00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:56.759 the crime and how totally mystifying the case was to 110 00:07:56.800 --> 00:07:59.800 many people. So in twenty ten we did a fairly 111 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:05.000 extensive twenty fifth anniversary story and that started the ball 112 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:09.040 rolling again in that within a couple of years, the 113 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:15.680 Munthly Police Department had assigned a promising younger investigator to 114 00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:20.240 look at their extensive files on the case, boxes and 115 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:26.560 boxes in a room in Munsely City Hall, and all 116 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:29.560 along we kind of knew that we would be coming 117 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:35.639 back to the case at some point. Kimberly's father, who 118 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:41.879 was a physician locally, had really helped us greatly with 119 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:49.279 the story in twenty ten and had basically the man 120 00:08:49.399 --> 00:08:57.799 has the most I guess optimistic and realistic attitude I 121 00:08:57.799 --> 00:09:01.000 think a parent could ever have. Since that he thought 122 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:06.600 maybe some good would come from this horrible event at 123 00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:09.360 some point in the future, if nothing else, kind of 124 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:12.879 bringing the community together, and so he had cooperated with 125 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:16.200 the twenty ten case. In twenty eighteen, when our second 126 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:20.840 true crime book was out, doctor Dowell was the first 127 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:25.200 person in line at a book signing for it at 128 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:29.840 Mantrista Cultural Center. Share Muncy and Doug and I had 129 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:32.759 kind of looked at each other, and then we broached 130 00:09:32.759 --> 00:09:35.399 the subject with the doctor and said, you know, what 131 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:39.919 would you think if we did Because obviously we'd written 132 00:09:40.039 --> 00:09:42.799 regular articles for the newspaper, we asked, what would you 133 00:09:42.840 --> 00:09:46.360 think if if we did a full fledged treatment of this, 134 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:50.039 possibly as a book length treatment of it. And doctor 135 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:53.919 Dowe just seemed quite pleased with the idea. He really 136 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:59.000 liked the possibility that his daughter's murder and Ethan's murder 137 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:02.639 would continue to get some attention. And now we were 138 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:05.759 approaching the thirty fifth anniversary, still a couple of years 139 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:08.639 away from it, but I think he knew that as 140 00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:13.000 everyone was aging and memories were fading, there was the 141 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:19.679 possibility that this was an opportunity for a big splash 142 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:22.399 to get the word out, to get the facts as 143 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:27.080 they're known out. So he was totally cooperative, very encouraging, 144 00:10:27.799 --> 00:10:32.960 sat down with Doug for interviews, loan of family photos, 145 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:33.679 things like that. 146 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:41.080 Let's get to this faithful evening September twenty eighth, nineteen 147 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:46.480 eighty five, and there was a police officer, a patrolman 148 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:52.480 from the Munsey Police Department, patrolman Terry Winters. He's a 149 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:56.279 thirty four year old guy, and so he is at 150 00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:00.840 west Side Park. Tell us what this officer was doing 151 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:04.279 outside west Side Park or in west Side Park that 152 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:06.080 evening September twenty eight. 153 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:10.759 Well, strangely, over the years there was this mistake and 154 00:11:10.840 --> 00:11:14.440 assumption that he just happened to be in the park, 155 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:19.840 but the truth was he was still on duty. A 156 00:11:19.879 --> 00:11:22.440 lot of people mistakenly believed that he had been off 157 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:25.840 duty and they found it suspicious that at almost midnight 158 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:28.879 on this evening that he would be there in the park, 159 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:32.879 but he was on duty. One of his duties was 160 00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:37.519 to as midnight approached kind of encourage people to get 161 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:41.080 out of the park, to drive off and go home. 162 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:46.039 And he also had a police dog a canine officer, 163 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:50.320 and that gave him opportunity to let the canine officer 164 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:54.320 run it a little bit in the park. So Officer 165 00:11:54.399 --> 00:12:00.840 Winters saw a car sitting on a west side park 166 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:04.039 is not very wide. I mean, you can see from 167 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:09.039 the nearest street, White River Boulevard, you can see clear 168 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:11.919 to the White River on the other side of it. 169 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:14.960 It's not extremely long, but it's very kind of a 170 00:12:15.080 --> 00:12:19.080 deep park and very long and linear with a lot 171 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:22.480 of trees. And he saw there was a car parked 172 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:27.480 on a little lane closer to the river side of 173 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:31.679 the park. So he thought, okay, I need to tell 174 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:34.120 these people. They're probably parked there for the reasons you 175 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:36.679 might assume that the people were parked in a park 176 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:39.480 at almost midnight. I need to tell these people to 177 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:43.600 move along. And he walked up with his flashlight and 178 00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:47.600 showed it in the car and was and I'll never 179 00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:51.039 forget him telling us this. He was so startled by 180 00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:52.799 what he saw. He turned a light off for a 181 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:57.200 moment and then he turned it back on. And of 182 00:12:57.240 --> 00:12:59.639 course there are these two young people in the car, 183 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:04.639 and each one has been shot. And so he immediately 184 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:10.279 of course radioed that in very quickly, a lot of 185 00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:13.639 monthly police personnel are there, and they start doing what 186 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:19.679 is obviously the standard police procedure of stationing people at 187 00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:23.240 the entrances to the park and not allowing people to 188 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:27.639 get into the park, theoretically not allowing people leave the park, 189 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:30.120 and also keeping a record of all the personnel who 190 00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:35.279 are coming and going. They authorized personnel, and very quickly, 191 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:41.440 considering how late it was, the newspaper, which was one 192 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:45.080 of two at the time, the Monthly Star, had a 193 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.519 reporter there and they were able to do a story 194 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:50.759 for the next day's paper that did not have names 195 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:56.039 of the victims, but it did have a photograph. And really, 196 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:00.279 when you consider how much more mobile is a or 197 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:02.879 forces that took to cover a story like that in 198 00:14:02.919 --> 00:14:06.320 a brief period of time thirty five years ago compared 199 00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:10.120 to now, when I could stand there with my iPhone 200 00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:13.320 and take pictures and post them to online stories and 201 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.120 things like that, I mean, it's remarkable that they got 202 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:20.879 a twelve paragraph story with a photo in that next 203 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:26.159 morning's paper. But the investigation continued through that night and 204 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:31.799 police were incredibly frustrated by how really little evidence there was, 205 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:37.759 because they initially believed and It's probably the case that 206 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:42.759 the killer stood outside the car, pointed as his or 207 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:47.240 gun fired into the car, and didn't really have any 208 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:50.480 contact in the manner of touching the victims or anything 209 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:54.039 like that. So words spread very quickly, and by the 210 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:58.559 next day it was just spreading like wildfire through the 211 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:00.399 entire city. 212 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:03.360 Tell us about the parents of Ethan? 213 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:04.519 How old is he? 214 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:08.039 And Kimberly? Tell us about their parents. You mentioned Anthony 215 00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:12.159 Kimberly's physician father, but tell us about the parents. 216 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:19.759 The doctor Dowell was a physician at Law Memorial Hospital 217 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:27.799 here in Muncie and his he and his wife had 218 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:33.840 separated by that point. He was living in Indianapolis, I believe, 219 00:15:34.519 --> 00:15:37.759 and so that's where he was when he got the word. 220 00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:46.759 Ethan's parents. They're the family owns a local factory. So 221 00:15:47.080 --> 00:15:55.279 both very responsible, well known members of the community. Figures 222 00:15:55.320 --> 00:16:01.519 that a lot of people know. And after Kimberly's parents 223 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:09.519 separated and divorced, her mom had remarried and her stepfather, 224 00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:14.039 Donald Vogel Saying, was an official in the athletic department 225 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:18.639 at Boston University here in Munsie. And so really these 226 00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:23.799 were as in a way, kind of high profile families 227 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:28.759 as you could possibly imagine, which, as we note when 228 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:32.960 we quote people in the book, you know, people would 229 00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:37.080 say this kind of thing just doesn't happen to It 230 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:39.480 doesn't happen in our community. What they really mean is 231 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:43.000 it doesn't happen to people like us, because of course, 232 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:47.440 every community, especially Munsey, has people who are killed and 233 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:54.000 horrible crimes, and usually it's considered a thing that happens 234 00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:57.600 to someone else. In this case, that happened to people 235 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:00.919 who are well known and young people or well liked. 236 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:05.200 Ethan was sixteen years old, Kimberly was fifteen years old, 237 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:09.920 and they had gone to just like a week before 238 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:16.240 the North Side High School football team had opened its 239 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:21.559 fall football season, and they had gone to the hat 240 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:25.440 and I believed that they were both part of some 241 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:30.799 kind of homecoming court type activities that first week, and 242 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:34.480 then a week later on a Saturday night, they were 243 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:38.279 there in the park. And of course, you know, Monthsly, 244 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:43.480 like any city in the Midwest is especially nineteen eighty five, 245 00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:47.160 but even today, I think young people would say, there 246 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:49.599 are always a limited number of things that you could do, 247 00:17:50.200 --> 00:17:52.519 and you could go to a movie, you could go 248 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:55.279 to a concert, maybe a concert in Indianapolis if you 249 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:58.559 were old enough, or you could find a quiet place 250 00:17:58.599 --> 00:18:02.079 to sit and talk and you know, maybe you bought 251 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:07.240 a pizza or something like that. So it was immediately 252 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:11.319 one of those situations where people were undering, Okay, why 253 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:17.759 were they there? What were they doing there? And that 254 00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:24.400 great deal of speculation considering two elements that were in 255 00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:34.519 Ethan's Volkswagen rabbit hatchback with them. One was a switchblade 256 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:38.440 type knife that was on the dashboard and one was 257 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:44.559 a gun holster that was partially under Ethan's leg between 258 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:48.880 his leg and the seat of the car. And going 259 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:53.039 on thirty five years later, that holster in the DNA 260 00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:59.119 evidence that might have been part of that would continue 261 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:02.079 to be an element of the case. But of course, 262 00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:07.119 like everything else, when you don't really have and police 263 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:13.440 did not, when they don't have a tremendous amount of facts, 264 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:20.400 when they don't have answers, a lot of speculation starts, 265 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:25.880 not only about what might be possible un sitimate avenues 266 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:30.039 of their investigation, but also things that rapidly turned into 267 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.039 dead ends. 268 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:37.960 Now police call for make a pola for people to 269 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:43.079 come forward that are witnesses, and very interestingly, another marshal 270 00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:47.200 from a nearby town comes forward along with other witnesses 271 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:50.079 to say that they saw something in the park that night. 272 00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:54.039 And you might have mentioned that there was about a 273 00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:57.440 dozen cars that were discerned to have been in that 274 00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:02.839 park that night around that eleven PM. And so police 275 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:07.000 ask for people to come forward tell us first about 276 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:12.680 this nearby town marshall that said he had something, that 277 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:14.799 he actually witnessed it in the park that night. 278 00:20:16.359 --> 00:20:18.640 Well, it sounds like kind of kind of a cliche 279 00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:23.000 in that there is somebody who might be a witness 280 00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:26.599 to the crime, but because they were in a place 281 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:29.960 where they probably shouldn't have been, along with someone they 282 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:35.440 shouldn't have been with, there's always this element of reluctance. 283 00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:41.400 And I will mention that it's been an education to me. 284 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:44.119 Even though I worked at the newspaper at the time, 285 00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:48.920 I didn't cover the initial case, but it's been an 286 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:52.160 education to me to see what is written in articles 287 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:54.880 and what is not written in articles. I mean, I've 288 00:20:54.920 --> 00:20:57.160 always known that as I chose what to put in 289 00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:01.519 my coverage of cases, or of meetings for that matter, 290 00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:05.880 of public meetings, government meetings, elections, But there's not a 291 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:11.079 lot of detail about some of the initial witnesses, suspects, 292 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:16.039 and leads the police pursued in nineteen eighty five and 293 00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:19.240 the months that followed. So a lot of this came 294 00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:25.039 from interviews that we did in twenty nineteen, including with 295 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:30.400 Marvin Campbell, who was the deputy chief of police at 296 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:37.880 the time and who is still has almost unshakable beliefs 297 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.000 in the case and the way that he believes it 298 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:46.440 played out. But one of the things that came out 299 00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:51.799 of these twenty nineteen interviews with Marvin is that there 300 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:54.920 was a deputy from one of the towns in the 301 00:21:55.039 --> 00:22:00.319 area here who was there that night and had not 302 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:05.160 been revealed at all in the initial stories, but he 303 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:11.359 came forward in the days following the crime and came 304 00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:16.000 to Muzzi Police and said, Okay, well he didn't say 305 00:22:16.039 --> 00:22:17.799 it this way, I'm sure, but the good news is 306 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:21.200 I might have seen something to help your investigation to 307 00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:24.720 bad news is I was there with a woman and 308 00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:29.279 we probably shouldn't have been there, and so now you know, 309 00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:33.799 I've got some exposure and she's got some exposure if 310 00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:39.880 this gets out. But he had provided Marvin Campbell with 311 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:45.599 this element of I saw this vehicle and I saw 312 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:51.920 this man behind the wheel who had kind of stared 313 00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:53.680 at me and maybe in a kind of an effort 314 00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:56.799 to intimidate me and get me to leave. I saw 315 00:22:56.839 --> 00:22:59.359 him go ahead. And when that didn't work, and when 316 00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:04.960 he didn't intend date this Deputy Marshall, the car pulled away, 317 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.960 and when the general vicinity of where the shooting happened, uh, 318 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:16.279 just a few moments later, but that was corroberated by 319 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:21.240 a couple of other people were in the park that 320 00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:24.799 night and that yes, we saw a vehicle that looked 321 00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:31.000 vaguely like this vehicle. So police really started to focus 322 00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:37.519 very narrowly to some extent, they certainly fielded hundreds of calls. 323 00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:40.640 I think it even got to the point that they 324 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:46.880 implement They did local implementation of the Crime Stoppers CHIP 325 00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:51.319 line in the wake of this, maybe not just for 326 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:54.440 this case, but but the idea that, you know, we're 327 00:23:54.440 --> 00:23:59.079 overwhelmed almost of the calls. People think, you know, everybody, 328 00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:03.440 they see the grocery store matches, you know, the characteristics 329 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:11.759 of a suspect. So the deputies comments and subsequent comments 330 00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:16.519 from other people kind of sparked this narrow wing of 331 00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:23.759 the focus of the initial investigators to Donald Vogel Kase 332 00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:28.799 Kimberly's stepfather, the unrationaly athletic official. 333 00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:34.880 Let's use as an opportunity to stop for a second 334 00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:36.279 for these messages. 335 00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:41.400 Step into the world of power, loyalty, and luck. 336 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:44.079 I'm gonna make him an offer you can't refuse. 337 00:24:44.119 --> 00:24:48.160 With family, canoli's and spins mean everything. 338 00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:50.880 Now you want to get mixed up in the family business. 339 00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:56.000 Introducing the Godfather at Champa Casino dot com. 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Chum chumbacasino dot com. 352 00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:39.480 No process related my eighty plus storms. 353 00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:40.839 The conditions of the busy website retails. 354 00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:49.480 You talked about Deputy Chief of Police Marvin Campbell looking 355 00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:56.200 at DONALDS. Vogel Ga, saying as a really good sauspect. 356 00:25:57.519 --> 00:26:00.680 Other than the typical reason that you would look at 357 00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:05.039 family first, what in his mind was the reason why 358 00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:07.960 in his mind, Donald was a suspect. 359 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:17.440 I think that very quickly they began to look at vehicles, 360 00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:22.559 in particular, vehicles that were there that night belonged to 361 00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:31.200 mister vocal cassaying, and later, as the focus kind of widened, 362 00:26:31.400 --> 00:26:36.559 that belonged to other people too. So when you know, 363 00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:40.880 it's one of those things that even now, certainly I think, 364 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:43.079 you know, if I was a witness to a crime, 365 00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:45.079 I'm not really sure that I would be able to 366 00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:51.759 say later, oh, that was a dark blue nineteen eighty 367 00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:54.519 three Monte Carlo or something like that, you know, But 368 00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:58.839 people who are more capable of that were beginning to 369 00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:03.720 identify vehicles. And I can't tell you for certain exactly 370 00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:08.599 why Marvin Campbell linked those two, but he became pretty 371 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:16.920 convinced that the car owned by mister Vogogassang came close 372 00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:22.440 enough to the general description of a car that was 373 00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:25.880 in the park that night that that kind of solid 374 00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:31.599 fied for. Another element of this is that mister Vogogassaying 375 00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:36.039 came to the park that night. He was stopped by 376 00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:41.240 a police officer at one of the entrances and he said, 377 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:46.720 I'm here because I'm looking for my stepdaughter. Her mom 378 00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:49.799 is really concerned. You know, she was supposed to be 379 00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:53.319 home by eleven I think it was, and we haven't 380 00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:56.319 heard from her. And I'm not sure how much they 381 00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:59.319 kind of broke the news to him right there on 382 00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:03.200 the spot, or how much he was able to kind 383 00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:07.599 of infer from from what they weren't saying. But I've 384 00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:10.200 been at crime scenes on a number of occasions when 385 00:28:10.279 --> 00:28:15.640 family showed up and it's this very tense, potentially very 386 00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:22.599 emotional moment, and sometimes, you know, I don't know if 387 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:27.000 it's that whole you know, criminal always returns to the 388 00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:33.240 scene of the crime type cliche, or whether as the 389 00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:36.559 days went on, the combination of him coming to the 390 00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:42.119 scene that night looking for her and these any similarity 391 00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:47.279 vehicles and things just kind of started the gears going 392 00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:50.400 for Marvin Campbell and some of the investigators. That might 393 00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:55.319 be the case, but certainly those two things, I mean, 394 00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:59.519 you hate to say that that he wouldn't have have 395 00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:01.440 had the kind of hanging over where we said all 396 00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:04.319 these years if he hadn't shown up at the park, 397 00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:09.359 but he did. And I think that kind of uh, 398 00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:14.200 maybe furthered that suspicion a little bit in Marvin Campbell's mind. 399 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:19.960 Tell us about the composite drawing, What where did they 400 00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:25.160 get this witness for this rendition and in terms of Campbell, 401 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:31.000