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<v Speaker 1>Well again, we'll go back to non profits.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, the old adage God will help those that

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<v Speaker 2>help themselves. I think the men and I community and

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<v Speaker 2>rurald Texas missed that memo. With ourkgior now in charge

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<v Speaker 2>of the Department of Health usills on the rising along

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<v Speaker 2>with others supposedly eleminated diseases. Here our belief ruling over

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<v Speaker 2>reason and a lack of trust in established institutions. We

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<v Speaker 2>are now on the precipice of some serious health crisises

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<v Speaker 2>in the United States, especially in isolated communities where there

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<v Speaker 2>is a serious lack of education and outreach to the

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<v Speaker 2>wider impact of health access.

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<v Speaker 1>We see how faith.

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<v Speaker 2>Alone can lead to deaths that can be avoided with

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<v Speaker 2>one simple shot. The story is from AP News by

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<v Speaker 2>Devi Shastri on March fourth, twenty twenty five. Okay, my

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<v Speaker 2>friend Eva, I got questions for you. So for my

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<v Speaker 2>first question, you mentioned family decision making over well being.

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<v Speaker 2>So I wanted to know your thoughts on families making

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<v Speaker 2>decisions for their children for example that is going to

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<v Speaker 2>cause harm and where is that line between parental right

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<v Speaker 2>versus you know, because based like on our previous story.

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<v Speaker 1>For Monday, how do we decide. You know where that line.

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<v Speaker 2>Is when we're talking especially about parents being able to

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<v Speaker 2>give like vaccines, are not choosing not to give vaccines

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<v Speaker 2>to their kids.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I think that we have this idea. We insist

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<v Speaker 3>that no one has the right to tell my family

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<v Speaker 3>how to live, tell me and my family how to live,

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<v Speaker 3>which I generally agree with. But I think what happens

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<v Speaker 3>is you have decision makers in these families that believe

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<v Speaker 3>they are making decisions in the best interest of their family,

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<v Speaker 3>and that belief that they are matters a little bit.

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<v Speaker 3>But what's happening in reality is like they most people

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<v Speaker 3>just kind of like once they stop being required to learn,

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<v Speaker 3>they don't anymore. So you're not like taking in new

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<v Speaker 3>information and learning about like, hey, this is how vaccines

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<v Speaker 3>really help, or you know, this is what medical research

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<v Speaker 3>says about this particular thing, or this is why measles

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<v Speaker 3>is worse? Then what will happen if you know what

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<v Speaker 3>might happen if I do vaccinate? Right? So, and I

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<v Speaker 3>think that's the problem too, that people tend to look

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<v Speaker 3>at information in a vacuum. And so if you see that,

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<v Speaker 3>you know there have been this many injuries from vaccines

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<v Speaker 3>as a result of this or that vaccine, and you

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<v Speaker 3>don't compare that to what's going to happen if you

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<v Speaker 3>don't vaccinate. That's like me saying, you know, every if

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<v Speaker 3>I say, every autopsy we've ever done in history has

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<v Speaker 3>revealed some amount of dihydrogen monoxide in the cadaver at

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<v Speaker 3>the time of death. If you don't already have the

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<v Speaker 3>context that dihydrogen monoxide is just water and it's vital

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<v Speaker 3>for life as we know it, then that makes it

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<v Speaker 3>sound like that's somehow related to this high rate of mortality.

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<v Speaker 3>But it's just a thing that happens to coexist and

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<v Speaker 3>I happened to be there and not having it is

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<v Speaker 3>much much worse than having it. But when you just

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<v Speaker 3>look at that information without its context, you're going to

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<v Speaker 3>scare yourself away from things that are more likely to

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<v Speaker 3>help you than hurt you.

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<v Speaker 1>No, that's a really good point.

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<v Speaker 2>And Kelly, you mentioned like, you know RK Gear's you know,

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<v Speaker 2>lack of vaccine education and class, and you know, it

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<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, well, he knows what he's talking about.

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<v Speaker 1>So I obviously.

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<v Speaker 4>That I saw a quote in the article from Senior

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<v Speaker 4>Senior Pastor class and do I trust all vaccines. No,

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<v Speaker 4>And I give from Kennedy that he doesn't trust all

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<v Speaker 4>the vaccines either, and he is very well educated in that.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm not so. I mean, he's trusting Kennedy's education in vaccines.

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<v Speaker 4>So I started thinking, I don't think Kennedy ever had

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<v Speaker 4>any education in that. And I actually did a little

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<v Speaker 4>bit of research around just doalve down the RFK rabbit hole,

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<v Speaker 4>and it turns out well. First off, he was quite

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<v Speaker 4>the little juvenile delinquent. He was even in a gang

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<v Speaker 4>called the hyannasport Terrors, which to me is fucking hysterical.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm not making this up either. Like he a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of his family members said that he was addicted to

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<v Speaker 4>drugs and he led other family members down the path

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<v Speaker 4>of drug addiction. And honestly, besides the comical gang thing,

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<v Speaker 4>he sounds like the people I was hanging on with

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<v Speaker 4>the Dan Angel and the truth. He did a tuck

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<v Speaker 4>funnel work on for environmentalism, legal work, but no vaccine

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<v Speaker 4>background in any of that. He took a lot of

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<v Speaker 4>corporations to court for pollution, which again good for him. Seriously,

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<v Speaker 4>no vaccine education and any of that. The first, the

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<v Speaker 4>first environment the first activism I ever did when I

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<v Speaker 4>was a kid was for environmentalism, So I'm behind all

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<v Speaker 4>the stuff he did when he was younger totally. But again,

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<v Speaker 4>no vaccine education. He's an outstanding resume, but nowhere is

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<v Speaker 4>there any training on vaccine, on healthcare, nothing. So this

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<v Speaker 4>senior pastor is not trusting vaccines that have been tested

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<v Speaker 4>and trusting a man who has not been tested.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I agree with you, So, Tracy, I have a

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<v Speaker 1>question for you.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So, like and for example, and like Mennonite Amish communities,

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<v Speaker 2>these isolated communities, they might not have the same access

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<v Speaker 2>to education health education as like the general public. So

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<v Speaker 2>we understand that there is a lot of religious privilege

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<v Speaker 2>going on right now. Where do you think you mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>like demonstrable harm in your notes and you know, where

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<v Speaker 2>is that line, like, where is your kind of feeling

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<v Speaker 2>about like lack of education versus you know, the health

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<v Speaker 2>of our role of public populations like children.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, Hannah, well I called you hand Helen. I'm just

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<v Speaker 5>not gonna accept the lack of education as an excuse.

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<v Speaker 5>Even the most poorly educated person can understand that when

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<v Speaker 5>your child stops moving and responding to you and starts

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<v Speaker 5>to smell a little funny that that means that they died.

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<v Speaker 5>And when you look at all the kids in your

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<v Speaker 5>community and you say, huh, well, they're dying a lot.

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<v Speaker 5>And then you look at another community and you say, oh,

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<v Speaker 5>my goodness, the children aren't dying as much. I wonder

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<v Speaker 5>why there's no amount of removal from education, from our

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<v Speaker 5>technology that is going to excuse this negligent behavior. There's

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<v Speaker 5>no amount whatsoever. If your child is dying, unless you

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<v Speaker 5>want back to keep happening, you take steps to fix that.

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<v Speaker 5>I don't really understand. I can't understand not wanting to

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<v Speaker 5>keep your child.

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<v Speaker 4>From That's not what it is. It's it's it's I

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<v Speaker 4>don't want my child. The problem is misinformation, not being

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<v Speaker 4>well informed, but being well misinformed. So you have all

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<v Speaker 4>these parents who are saying, oh, I had the measles

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<v Speaker 4>when I was a kid and I lived, But if

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<v Speaker 4>I give my kid a measle shot, they're going to

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<v Speaker 4>be autistic. And I don't want my child to be autistic.

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<v Speaker 4>And that's where that's where this fear comes out of. Now,

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<v Speaker 4>of course, nobody's going to get become on the spectrum

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<v Speaker 4>just because they got a measles vaccination. It's just not

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<v Speaker 4>fucking happening. But there's so much misinformation out there teaching

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<v Speaker 4>people this. I went through it with my kids. My

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<v Speaker 4>ex wife brought it up, and we actually did some research,

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<v Speaker 4>thank goodness, I you know, know how to research stuff,

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<v Speaker 4>and we found out all this bullshit wasn't true, and

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<v Speaker 4>my kids are both fact fully vaccinated. But but there

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<v Speaker 4>is so much misinformation out there that it's easy to

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<v Speaker 4>be led down the wrong path with it. So I'm sorry,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm off my soapbox.

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<v Speaker 2>Now there you go, so so HELI like your your

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<v Speaker 2>kids on the younger end, like when my kids, like

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<v Speaker 2>back in the early two thousands, when like the chicken

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<v Speaker 2>pox vaccine came out, my daughter was like, Hey, we

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<v Speaker 2>have the chicken pox vacne.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you wearing kids to have it?

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, yes, I didn't even question it because

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<v Speaker 2>I had trusted in vaccines. With your you know, fully

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<v Speaker 2>engrossed in the Internet age where misinformation happens all the time,

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<v Speaker 2>did you struggle with those certain decisions when it came

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<v Speaker 2>to vaccination or we're just like, I'm like, or did

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<v Speaker 2>you have what sort of education did you have that

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<v Speaker 2>you could sort through the bullshit? To really understand, like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, what's going to impact your child.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well I was fortunate enough to already be somewhat

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<v Speaker 3>reasonable by the time my son was born. Uh So

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<v Speaker 3>I asked, I was already on the side of like, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>like vaccines are not a bad thing. And I was.

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<v Speaker 3>Actually I was in EMT school when we found out

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<v Speaker 3>we were expect so I was learning medicine. I was

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<v Speaker 3>kind of like learning how to like think critically and

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<v Speaker 3>how like evidence is gathered. And that was really sort

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<v Speaker 3>of my first introduction into like like data gathering type process.

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<v Speaker 3>The teacher I had was fantastic. But so when it

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<v Speaker 3>came to like me, when it comes to like, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>medical decisions for my son, I talked to his pediatrician,

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<v Speaker 3>who has all of his medical history, who has all

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<v Speaker 3>of the knowledge and the education and the experience to

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<v Speaker 3>look at the situation and evaluate him. And I can say,

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<v Speaker 3>what do you recommend, and that pediatrician can say I

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<v Speaker 3>recommend this, and I'll say, okay, And as long as

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<v Speaker 3>like it's not obviously the wrong thing, Like who am

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<v Speaker 3>I to suggest that I know better than a pediatrician

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<v Speaker 3>that's twice my age. Probably I don't think I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think they're that old, but uh yeah, and and and

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<v Speaker 3>there's nothing wrong with being twice ways, but the fact

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<v Speaker 3>that they they have the experience in their field to

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<v Speaker 3>understand like, did I learn a little bit at one point?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>Could I have had a conversation about like pediatric emergency

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<v Speaker 3>medicine with that doctor at some point?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe? Did I ever know more about them than pediatric medicine?

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<v Speaker 3>Zero percent? Is that likely? I think that zero percent

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<v Speaker 3>likely that that ever was the case. So yeah, I

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<v Speaker 3>just trust what the profession, the professional, the experts say,

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<v Speaker 3>unless it's clearing me wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>So do I weird?

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<v Speaker 3>That's not to say I'm sorry, sorry, I don't mean

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<v Speaker 3>to keep going.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that's not to say that's.

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<v Speaker 3>Not to say experts can't be wrong, Like it's not

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<v Speaker 3>intended to be an argument from authority, like they can't

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<v Speaker 3>be wrong. And if you feel like something's not right, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>of course check it. But like when the expert is

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<v Speaker 3>saying like, hey, like the chance of injury is relatively low,

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<v Speaker 3>and then like Kevin on YouTube is like, no, this

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<v Speaker 3>is exactly what's going to happen. And I know it

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<v Speaker 3>because I read about it on Facebook, Like I'm the doctor,

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<v Speaker 3>is a better source than Kevin.

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<v Speaker 4>Wait wait, wait what did Kevin? Wait? No, wait Kevin?

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<v Speaker 3>It was Kevin.

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<v Speaker 4>Kevin?

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<v Speaker 1>So Kelly as the elder here.

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<v Speaker 2>So do you think that, like, you know, because people

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<v Speaker 2>haven't lived through you know, children die of measles or

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<v Speaker 2>being affected by polio, for example, because those diseases have

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<v Speaker 2>been eradicated for you know, especially like through when you

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<v Speaker 2>were growing up and when I grew up, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>with those diseases.

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<v Speaker 1>Haven't been a thing like do they.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think that it is because like people aren't

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<v Speaker 2>actually seeing these really extreme deficits of health to their

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<v Speaker 2>children that is keeping them from understanding what it is,

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<v Speaker 2>or do you think it's like something else.

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<v Speaker 4>I think that's part of it. Sure, I mean that's

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<v Speaker 4>that's definitely part of it. I had measles when I

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<v Speaker 4>was a kid, I had chicken pox. I lived through

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<v Speaker 4>all that stuff, and none of my kids did, None

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<v Speaker 4>of my nieces or nephews did. So I see that

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<v Speaker 4>as a reasonable of excuse for why some parents don't

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<v Speaker 4>do it. And and a lot of now I'm older,

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<v Speaker 4>but a lot of parents today they didn't see any

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<v Speaker 4>of that when they were kids either. So they don't

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<v Speaker 4>really understand that. You know, when the whole when the

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<v Speaker 4>whole school got measles, one or two of the kids

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<v Speaker 4>died from it. You know that they just don't get it.

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<v Speaker 4>So I think that is definitely definitely a part of it.

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<v Speaker 4>I think what I was saying before was a part

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<v Speaker 4>of it too. I don't care about the whole thing.

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<v Speaker 4>I just care about my child and what could happen

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<v Speaker 4>to them. So there's kind of a bit of selfishness

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<v Speaker 4>put involved in it too. And then we get also

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<v Speaker 4>a lot of misinformation being put out there about how

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<v Speaker 4>it's against your you know, a good a good follower

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<v Speaker 4>of Jesus would never have something like this stuck into

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<v Speaker 4>their body, you know, So that that's not helping either.

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<v Speaker 4>There's a there's a whole bunch of different factors, but

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<v Speaker 4>that's definitely one of them. It's definitely one of them.

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<v Speaker 2>And I I think that feeds into the ignorance a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>But but like you know, this particular article mentioned like

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<v Speaker 2>the Mennonite community, which.

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<v Speaker 1>Is you know that, and they are kind of a.

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<v Speaker 2>Weird community because they're they're in between, they're not quite

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<v Speaker 2>a must where they're completely isolated from you know a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of society, even though they're constantly being influenced by it,

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<v Speaker 2>like the Menonites kind of like you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, to the line between the two, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>So they're exposed to certain levels of you know, secular life,

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<v Speaker 2>they're exposed to certain levels of education. So I have

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<v Speaker 2>to wonder again also too, because they are part of

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<v Speaker 2>these religious sects, how much information are they getting and

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<v Speaker 2>is the and do they know how to vet?

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<v Speaker 1>And I guess that they don't, so, Tracy, Hi, and

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<v Speaker 1>what what is your kind of feeling.

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<v Speaker 2>With when it comes to medical expertise and where they're

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<v Speaker 2>getting their information from? And should seculars a society be

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<v Speaker 2>moving into these isolated communities to help educate them better

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<v Speaker 2>even though their religious beliefs don't really.

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<v Speaker 1>Want them to.

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<v Speaker 5>So an important thing to understand about these religious sects.

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<v Speaker 5>I know quite a few Amish families, and I've I've

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<v Speaker 5>looked into the Amish quite a bit. I haven't really

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<v Speaker 5>looked into the Mennonites. But this is this is my understanding.

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<v Speaker 5>Whatever medical advice that they're given is then relayed to

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<v Speaker 5>their elder, and then the elder tells them what it

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<v Speaker 5>is that they're going to do that's not a vetting process.

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<v Speaker 5>That's the elder checking with their tradition and their religious

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<v Speaker 5>thoughts and interpretation. It's not a vetting process at all.

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<v Speaker 5>They don't have one. They don't research these things. They

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<v Speaker 5>just sit at at a surface level and whatever. And

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<v Speaker 5>Kelly's right, there may be some misinformation that's been spread

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<v Speaker 5>in there well, and they're not interested in debunking that

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<v Speaker 5>information or looking deeper into it. They are only interested

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<v Speaker 5>in their tradition. And I do think that we kind

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<v Speaker 5>of owe the children. And I'm going to go off

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<v Speaker 5>on this later about appealing to children, but I think

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<v Speaker 5>there's a demonstrable harm here. There's five things that are needs,

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<v Speaker 5>that are absolute needs that you will die if you

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<v Speaker 5>do not have one of these things as far as

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<v Speaker 5>I'm aware, and I could definitely be wrong, but they're food, water, shelter, medicine,

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<v Speaker 5>and I had another one and I wrote it down

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<v Speaker 5>food water, shelter, medicine, air. And they are depriving the

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<v Speaker 5>children of one of those five things. This is I

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<v Speaker 5>don't where's the line at which we're saying it's no

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<v Speaker 5>longer a personal choice when you're depriving somebody of one

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<v Speaker 5>of the things. They absolutely need in order to continue living.

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<v Speaker 5>That's I do think we need to do something. I

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<v Speaker 5>don't know what it is, but I think something needs

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<v Speaker 5>to be done well.

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<v Speaker 2>And it kind of ties back to we were talking

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<v Speaker 2>to before about like, you know, even when we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about doctors.

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<v Speaker 1>Being able to like you know, pick and choose you know, who.

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<v Speaker 2>They're going to serve, it ties back into this, like

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<v Speaker 2>with with parents also being able to choose what kind

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<v Speaker 2>of medical care their children receive.

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<v Speaker 1>We have to be able to find a balance between

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<v Speaker 1>the two. Like and I think.

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<v Speaker 2>That the lack of education, the lack of there's been

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<v Speaker 2>erosions as Eli mentioned that you know, he's going to

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<v Speaker 2>defer to his pediatrician tell the moment that his like

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<v Speaker 2>you know, his Spidey sense goes, that doesn't seem right,

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<v Speaker 2>let me go to you know, get more information, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>get a second opinion, whatever that is. So I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to ask, like, Kelly, do you think it's like that

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<v Speaker 2>lack of skepticism or so much skepticism that you you know,

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<v Speaker 2>don't trust anyone and stuff for like an alter in

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<v Speaker 2>your community, or you have so much skepticism that you

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<v Speaker 2>don't trust anyone except for like you know why you

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<v Speaker 2>listen to Kevin on Facebook?

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<v Speaker 4>What's what that Kevin guy, that guy fucking knows everything?

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<v Speaker 4>Doesn't know shit? Man, Man, I'll tell you a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of viewers still a subscribers, like two point three million.

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<v Speaker 4>It's it's really a tough thing because I don't you

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<v Speaker 4>know what, I totally forgot your question again because I

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<v Speaker 4>was thinking of something else. And I apologize.

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<v Speaker 1>Just go on all you're thinking about it.

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<v Speaker 4>It's fine, cool about what Tracy was saying earlier about

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<v Speaker 4>you know, and I'm totally in agreement with man. I

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<v Speaker 4>don't think you could. You can probably go on there

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<v Speaker 4>in there with a truckload of information and they're not

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<v Speaker 4>going to believe it because that information doesn't fit what

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<v Speaker 4>they want to believe, where the misinformation does. Right, I

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<v Speaker 4>want to believe this miss and I don't care if

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<v Speaker 4>it's missing. They don't even care if it's missing. They

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<v Speaker 4>don't know that it's information misinformation because they don't bother

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<v Speaker 4>to check it out, because they lack that skepticism. I

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<v Speaker 4>tied it back in your questionnaire, see that because they

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<v Speaker 4>so so You're right. I mean, it's just like there

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<v Speaker 4>is this there is a lack of skepticism on that side,

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<v Speaker 4>and there is an overabundance of skepticism against authority figures.

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<v Speaker 4>So you know, it's a weird thing, right, You got

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<v Speaker 4>too much on one side and not enough on the other,

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<v Speaker 4>and we're and you can't draw the line where the

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<v Speaker 4>right amount of skepticism is, can you. I mean, it's

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<v Speaker 4>a really weird It's like Loki's wager if you know

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<v Speaker 4>what that is. If you don't know what Loki's wager is,

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<v Speaker 4>go look it up.

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<v Speaker 2>So, Eli, you mentioned like the leave it to your

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<v Speaker 2>mother's things in your nose.

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<v Speaker 1>As a mother, I was Myra went so, but what

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<v Speaker 1>was your point with that?

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<v Speaker 3>With the Lincoln to I am glad you're asking not

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<v Speaker 3>only for the chance to clarify, but because it actually

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<v Speaker 3>what has been spoken, Like what has been said is

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<v Speaker 3>kind of reminded me of this. There seems to be

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<v Speaker 3>this idea that mother knows best. It used to be

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<v Speaker 3>father knows best. Now it's mother knows best. There's some

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<v Speaker 3>combination of like, once you become a parent, you are

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<v Speaker 3>imbued with the undeniable knowledge of what the absolute best

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<v Speaker 3>choice is for your child, and that just isn't true, right,

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<v Speaker 3>And I like this could be like in the wrong context,

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<v Speaker 3>construed to be like anti mother, anti woman. I don't

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<v Speaker 3>want it to be taken that way at all. I

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<v Speaker 3>don't think even myself as a parent, I do not

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<v Speaker 3>have infallible knowledge about what the best choice is for

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<v Speaker 3>my son. And that's why I rely on experts like

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<v Speaker 3>educators and like psychologists if that were to become necessary,

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<v Speaker 3>psychiatrists in under the same context, medical professionals, whatever professionals

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<v Speaker 3>that are in areas in which I have no knowledge,

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<v Speaker 3>that's who I defer to when I'm seeking knowledge. And

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<v Speaker 3>I just don't. And it is that improper application of

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<v Speaker 3>skepticism because people don't like to have been wrong in

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<v Speaker 3>the past, so they don't like to admit that maybe

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<v Speaker 3>one of the choices I made for my child in

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<v Speaker 3>the past wasn't the best choice, and now if I

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<v Speaker 3>change my mind, now I have to admit that I

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<v Speaker 3>didn't make the best choice before, and now I'm a

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<v Speaker 3>bad parent. No, you're a bad parent if you continue

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<v Speaker 3>to make the work like the not best choice in

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<v Speaker 3>light of overwhelming evidence that the choice you're making is

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<v Speaker 3>not the best choice. That's what makes your bad parent.

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<v Speaker 3>Learning from your mistakes and teaching your child to learn

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<v Speaker 3>from their mistakes and to admit when they got something wrong.

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<v Speaker 3>That's what's going to make That's what makes you a

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<v Speaker 3>good parent, because that makes your child an acceptable, like

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<v Speaker 3>tolerable person to be around.

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<v Speaker 5>Talk an, let's just look like a shelf of bibbleheads.

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<v Speaker 2>I would I would ask the other people to be

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<v Speaker 2>able to follow it up, but I don't think anybody

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<v Speaker 2>could say it better. So, if you're interested in more

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<v Speaker 2>content from us, here are the nonprofits.

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<v Speaker 1>Find a video because there's all types of stuff, So

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<v Speaker 1>do the thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And also I'm going to remind you again to like

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<v Speaker 2>and subscribe and ring bells because pray to the algorithm gods.

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<v Speaker 2>By everybody comments and comments