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Speaker 1: Okay, so I want you to imagine for a second

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a place that feels like it's just completely fallen off

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the edge of the map. Right we are in the

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foothills of the French Pyrenees, and the time is the

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late nineteenth century, let's say, around eighteen eighty five.

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Speaker 2: And the landscape there is it's not gentle, it's rugged,

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it's aggressive, almost hostile, but beautiful in this really raw way,

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and it is incredibly remote.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, So we're zooming in on this one tiny, really

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impoverished village perched right on top of a hill. It's

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called Rendles Chateau.

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Speaker 2: And it is a place that I mean, by all accounts,

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history just should have scrolled right past. It should be

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a footnote at best, not even that. Yeah, we were

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talking about a population of what maybe three hundred people max.

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If I out there, snow, running water. The roads aren't roads.

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They are just these rough mule track dirt paths that

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kind of snake up the hillside.

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Speaker 1: It is the absolute definition of a backwater, it really is.

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And right there, in this dusty, forgotten corner France, we

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find our main character, our protagonist, a humble village priest

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named baronje Sonier. And when we first meet him, he

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is earning a pittance, I mean literally nothing. He's living

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in a presbyteria that is falling down around his ears,

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and he's presiding over a church that is, for all

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intents and purposes, are ruined.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it was worse than a ruin. The sources are

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pretty clear that the roof was leaking so badly that

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you know, when it rained outside, it was raining inside

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the church.

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Speaker 1: No way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, birds were flying around, nesting in the sanctuary. The

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windows were all blown out. It was a complete disaster zone.

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Speaker 1: And then almost overnight, the entire script.

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Speaker 2: Just flips completely.

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Speaker 1: This poor priest, this guy who was counting every single

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penny just to buy bread, he suddenly starts spending money.

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Speaker 2: And we're not talking small money.

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Speaker 1: No, I don't mean he bought a nice new coat money.

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I mean he starts spending what would be the modern

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equivalent of millions, millions of dollars.

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Speaker 2: It's an explosion of wealth.

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Speaker 1: He builds a mansion, he builds this massive, grand tower.

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He lays out these lush, beautiful gardens and a place

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that barely has water to begin with. He's importing rum

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from the Caribbean and feasting on lobster, and.

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Speaker 2: Of course the entire village and then eventually the entire

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region starts asking the one single obvious question.

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Speaker 1: Where on Earth did the money come from?

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Speaker 2: That's it, That's the question.

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Speaker 1: That is the question that launched a thousand ships, or

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in this case, a thousand conspiracy theories.

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Speaker 2: A thousand is probably an understatement.

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Speaker 1: Probably, yeah, did he find the lost treasure of the

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Knight's Templar? Did he stumble upon the Holy Grail itself?

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Speaker 2: Or and this is the big one, did he discover

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a secret so damaging, so earth shatteringly explosive that the

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Vatican itself paid him a massive fortune just to keep

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his mouth shut, right, blackmail. It's a mystery that has

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just captivated people, treasure hunters, writers, filmmakers, for what over

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seventy years.

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Speaker 1: Now at least.

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Speaker 2: And what's truly fascinating to me, what makes this story

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so special is that, this one specific story from this

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tiny village of rend Lsiateau, it's essentially patient zero for

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some of the biggest pop culture phenomena of our time.

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Speaker 1: You're talking about the Da Vinci Code.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, if you've ever read the Da Vinci Code, or

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if you've ever gone down that rabbit hole of theories

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about Jesus having a bloodline, it all traces back here.

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It starts with this one priest in this one tiny village.

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Speaker 1: So welcome to thrilling threads. I am, I have to say,

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absolutely pumped to get into this one. We do because

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we are unraveling a conspiracy theory that actually has a

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factual ending, which, let's be honest, is so rare in

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what we do.

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Speaker 2: It is incredibly rare. Usually we're left hanging with a

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you know, maybe it was Aliens, maybe it was the government.

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But here, here we have a complete narrative.

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Speaker 1: Art, we have a beginning, a middle, and an end.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we're going to look at how a local scam

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spiraled into this global mythology involving Jesus's bloodline.

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Speaker 1: So our mission today is it's simple, but it's ambitious.

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We are going to trace the money, the myth, and

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the massive hoax of ren les Chateau. We're going to

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find out what really happened to baron Ja Sonier, and

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I think.

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Speaker 2: Maybe even more importantly, we're going to look at the

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psychologies of belief. Why do we want the myth to

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be true, even when all the evidence points to something well,

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something much grubviier.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so grab your shovel and your skepticism and let's

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get into this. We really need to set the stage

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properly here. Yes, let's go back to eighteen eighty five.

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Baron Jay Sognier arrives in town. Paint the picture for us.

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What is he walking into and who is this guy? Really?

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Speaker 2: Well, to understand Sognier, I think you really have to

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understand the context of France in eighteen eighty five. Okay,

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this isn't just about a guy getting a bad job posting.

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France at this time is politically just tearing itself apart.

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You have the secular Republic on one side, which is

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very anti clerical and wants to separate church and state

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completely and on the other and you have the Catholic

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monarchists on the other who are desperately trying to restore

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the king and bring back the power of glory of

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the church.

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Speaker 1: So it's a full blown culture.

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Speaker 2: War, a massive one. And Sanier he's young, he's thirty

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three years old. He's apparently very handsome, robust, energetic, and

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he is a militant monarchist.

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Speaker 1: So he's not a quiet, you know, retired to the

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countryside kind of priest, not at all.

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Speaker 2: He is fiercely ambitious. He sees himself as a player.

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He wants rise in the ranks of the church.

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Speaker 1: But instead of a grand cathedral in Paris or Lyon,

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he gets rindless chateau.

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Speaker 2: Exactly for him, this is the end of the line.

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He's walking to a professional dead end. The village is,

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as we said, in a state of severe decay, and

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the church itself, the church which was originally this private

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chapel for the local lords, you know, dating back centuries,

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it's barely usable.

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Speaker 1: And it gets worse for him, doesn't it. Because of

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his politics, it.

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Speaker 2: Gets much worse. He is so outspoken that he actually

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gives a fiery sermon telling people how to vote against

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the republic.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And for that his state salary gets his bended for

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a while.

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Speaker 1: So he's not just poor, he's actively broke and he's

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in trouble with the government from day one.

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Speaker 2: He is desperate. I mean he's literally living on handouts

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from parishioners who have almost nothing themselves.

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Speaker 1: And for a man with his level of ambition, his ego, yeah,

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that has to be a crushing humiliation, the daily one.

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Speaker 2: And he is stuck in a crumbling building with a

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congregation of you know, peasants, and he has zero prospects

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of advancement. It's a prison.

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Speaker 1: But he's not the type of guy to just sit

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there and accept his fate, is he. It sounds like

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he's a hustler at heart.

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Speaker 2: He definitely has what we might today call a monetizable mindset.

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Speaker 1: Uhh. I like that.

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Speaker 2: He's always looking for angles, He's looking for a way out,

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and he's not alone in this this isolation. He hires a.

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Speaker 1: Housekeeper, right, a housekeeper named Marie dan Arnaud. And Marie

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is well. The sources are pretty clear that she wasn't

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just a housekeeper who was, you know, dusting the pews.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's putting it mildly. This is absolutely crucial to

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the story. Marie dan Arnaud becomes his close confidant. She

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moves into the presbytery with her family.

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Speaker 1: Actually, oh really, with her whole family.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and she remains by his side for his entire life.

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The implication, which is heavily supported by the villager's accounts

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and the historical record, is that they were partners in

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every sense of the word.

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Speaker 1: So likely lovers, almost.

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Speaker 2: Certainly lovers, and definitely co conspirators in everything that follows.

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Speaker 1: So you have this ambitious, frustrated priest and his loyal

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writer die partner stuck together in a ruined village on

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top of a mountain.

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Speaker 2: It's the perfect setup for something dramatic to happen.

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Speaker 1: Now, the church itself it's dedicated to Mary Magdalen, is

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that significant.

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Speaker 2: It is hugely significant, especially for the later myths that

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spring up and for the whole atmosphere of the place.

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Ow So you have to understand the regional obsession. The

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south of France, and specifically this region called the Lang Duck,

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has a deep, deep seated obsession with Mary Magdalen. Right

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there are centuries old traditions and local legends that claim

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she didn't just vanish from the biblical narrative after the resurrection.

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Speaker 1: This is the legend that says she fled Palestine right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that she traveled across the Mediterranean, maybe bringing the

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Holy Grail with her, and she landed in the south

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of France to live out her last days as a

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hermit in a cave.

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Speaker 1: So Sonia is operating in a landscape that's already just

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primed for mystery completely.

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Speaker 2: This isn't like finding a mystery in I don't know,

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a suburb of Ohio. This is a land of heretics,

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of the Cathars who are brutally suppressed by the Church

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in the Middle Ages. It's a land of buried secrets.

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The very soil is fertile for these kinds of stories.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so the stage is perfectly set. He's broke, he

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wants to fix his ruined church. He has a partner

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in crime, and he's surrounded by ancient legends.

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Speaker 2: Check, check, and check.

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Speaker 1: So let's fast forward just a little bit to eighteen

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eighty six. He manages to screep together a small amount

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of money.

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Speaker 2: Right he claims he got a donation from the Countess

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of Chamber.

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Speaker 1: And he uses this to start some very basic renovations.

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And this right here is where the movie really starts.

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This is the inciting incident, it absolutely is.

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Speaker 2: He decides to focus on the main altar. The altarstone

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were supported by two ancient pillars, one of them was Visigothic,

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incredibly old and likely hollowed out.

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Speaker 1: Over time, and he orders the workman to move it.

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Speaker 2: He does, and during this work, we have a witness.

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Speaker 1: This is the bell ringer.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the bell ringer, a local man, is there in

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the church and he sees the wooden pillar that's supporting

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the pulpit or some sources say the altar. He sees

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it either collapse or break open, and inside, hidden away

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in a hollow space, is a small glass file.

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Speaker 1: It's a literal secret message in a bottle, but inside

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a church pillar. I mean, you absolutely cannot write this

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stuff better. It's straight out of National Treasure.

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Speaker 2: You really can't. Now. The bell ringer sees this vial

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and he sees that inside it there are rolled up parchments,

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old papers.

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Speaker 1: So what does Sonia do? Does he open it up

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in front of everyone and read it?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely not. His reaction is immediate, and it's very very telling.

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He snatches the vial, of course he does, and he

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tells the workers, oh, don't worry about this, it's just

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an old relic, nothing of value, just some old church dust.

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But he doesn't throw it away. He pockets it instantly.

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He immediately treats it like as a treasure map.

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Speaker 1: That is the classic nothing to see here move. I mean,

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if it was trash, he would have tossed it exactly.

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Fact that he hit it means he thought it was

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valuable from the first second.

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Speaker 2: And then very shortly after this, he orders the floor

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of the church to be lifted up. He's now convinced

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that whatever that parchment said, it points to something under

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the building.

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Speaker 1: This is where fact and folklore start to get a

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little blurry.

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Speaker 2: They do, but we still have witness accounts for this

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next part too. Under the floorboards, right near the altar,

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he finds a pot, an old clay pot, a pot

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of gold, a pot filled with gold coins and other

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shiny objects. The workers see it, they see the glint

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of the gold.

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Speaker 1: And what does Sonya do this time? Does he say Allelujah,

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the church is saved. Drinks are on me boys.

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Speaker 2: No, once again, he goes straight into damage control. He

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creates a cover story on the fly.

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Speaker 1: What does he say?

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Speaker 2: He tells the workers that the clients are just worthless

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medallic counters, you know, meaningless brass tokens from the French

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Revolution or something similar.

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Speaker 1: These are the droys you're looking for.

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Speaker 2: Precisely, But and here's the big tell, he pockets them.

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He keeps every single.

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Speaker 1: One, right if they were worthless brass. Why keep them?

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Speaker 2: Why would you? It's classic misdirection. But the workers, you know,

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they aren't stupid. They're peasants. Maybe they're uneducated, but they

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know what gold looks like.

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Speaker 1: And they know when they're being cut out of a deal.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. But Sonia is the priest. He holds all the

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authority in that village. He is already managing the narrative.

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He's creating a secret.

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Speaker 1: And this discovery, it seems to trigger something in him.

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He becomes convinced that this little pot of gold wasn't

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the main event, It was just an appetizer.

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Speaker 2: He thinks there's more, a lot more.

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Speaker 1: He thinks there's a massive horde hidden somewhere.

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Speaker 2: Nearby, specifically in the graveyard just outside the church.

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Speaker 1: And this is where the story gets a little grim.

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Speaker 2: It gets very grim.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about a priest, supposedly a man of God,

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going out into the church cemetery at night.

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Speaker 2: It's like something out of a Gothic horror story. He

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goes out there with Marie jan Arnault. They have lanterns

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and shovels and they are out there in the pitch

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black digging.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine looking out your window in this tiny,

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superstitious village and seeing your priest digging up graves at midnight.

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Speaker 2: The villagers were terrified, and they were furious. Of course,

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you have to remember these are their ancestors' graves. He

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is desecrating them. He's moving headstones around, he's shifting bones

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into a chaotic ostuary, just a clear space. It got

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so bad the villagers filed formal complaints with the local prefecture. Wow,

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they say, he locks himself in the cemetery for hours

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at a time.

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Speaker 1: What on earth is he looking for?

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Speaker 2: He's looking for the lord's tomb, the crypt of the

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ancient lords of Ren, the Hotepool family.

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Speaker 1: Why there.

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Speaker 2: He must believe that the parchment or the pot or

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something gave him a clue that the real treasure is

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hidden in their crypt.

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Speaker 1: And does he find it?

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Speaker 2: Well, we have his diary. This is a primary source,

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written in his own hand. Okay, And in September eighteen

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ninety one, he writes a very short, very evocative entry.

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It's just forwards in French.

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Speaker 1: What does it say?

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Speaker 2: Translated? It says discovery of a tomb evening rain.

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Speaker 1: Discovery of a tomb evening rain. Wow, that gives me chills.

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It's so cinematic, isn't it. You can just see it,

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the rain slicking the headstones, the lantern light reflecting off

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an open stone slab.

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Speaker 2: It is the absolute pivotal moment of the entire story.

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We are convinced, based on all the evidence that he

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found a crypt. Now, whether that crypt was filled with

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gold or jewels, or whether it was just an entrance

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to some other subterranean space, that remains the question.

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Speaker 1: But his behavior changes completely after that rainy evening, instantly

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and forever, because that's when the spending starts. That is

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the moment the poverty ends for good.

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Speaker 2: That is the moment Barge Soonier, the poor country priest dies,

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and the king of endles Chateau is born.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about this transformation, because it's not like

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he just fixes the church roof. He goes full blown tycoon.

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It's like he won the lottery.

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Speaker 2: He absolutely transforms almost immediately. He has one hundred thousand

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francs sitting in the bank. Now we really need to

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put that number in context. Okay, in rural France in

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the eighteen nineties, a school teacher or maybe a skilled

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laborer might earn between one thoy fifteen hundred francs a year.

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Speaker 1: A year, so he has roughly seventy or eighty years

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worth of a normal persons salary just sitting there in cash.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. It's a staggering life altering fortune for a man

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in his position. And he immediately starts building his own

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little kingdom. He buys up land all around the church.

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Speaker 1: And he builds the Villa Bethania.

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Speaker 2: Yes, a beautiful Renaissance style mansion. It is not a

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priest's house. It's a bourgeois manor. It has its own chapel,

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It has reception rooms, multiple guest bedrooms. It is designed

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for entertaining high society. He wants to show off.

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Speaker 1: And then there's the Tormagdala. This is the iconic image

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of ren Les Chateau, the thing you see on all

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the postcards.

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Speaker 2: The Magdala Tower. It's this beautiful Neo Gothic library tower

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and it's perched right on the edge of the cliff,

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overlooking the entire valley.

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Speaker 1: And he names it after Mary Magdalene.

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Speaker 2: He does, and he builds this covered walkway, a promenade,

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connecting the tower to a glass conservatory. It is a

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place for him to retire you know, read his books,

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smoke expensive cigars and look out over his domain like

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a feudal lord.

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Speaker 1: The gardens too. I love the details about the menagerie.

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This wasn't just him planting a vegetable patch.

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Speaker 2: No, he was not growing carrots. He built this huge

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ornamental garden with fountains and exotic plants that would have

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been incredibly expensive to maintain. And he kept animals. He

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had monkeys, monkeys in the French Pyrenees, which.

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Speaker 1: Is just it's absurd.

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Speaker 2: And the lamas he had. Lamas, he had lamas. Could

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you just imagine the villagers who are barely scraping by

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watching their pre least walk a lama on a lead

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through a lush garden while monkeys are chattering in the trees.

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Speaker 1: It's surreal. It is the behavior of an eccentric millionaire,

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not a humble priest.

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Speaker 2: Completely, and the lifestyle matched it. The food. The sources

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mentioned he was ordering lobster and Langistine's to.

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Speaker 1: This remote village.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and rum. He was ordering fifty liters of

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rum at a time, shipped directly from Martinique, fifty leaders.

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He was buying crates of the finest wines. He was

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entertaining distinguished guests. We're talking local politicians, opera singers. There

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were even rumors of royalty visiting incognito.

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Speaker 1: And he's treating them to these lavish banquets.

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Speaker 2: The finest, and he's producing postcards of himself.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I love this part. He has professional photos taken

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of himself and Marie posing in the gardens and he

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has them printed as postcards, which he then sells or

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gives away to his guests.

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Speaker 2: That is basically nineteenth century Instagram. Yeah, he's an influencer.

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He's building his brand.

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Speaker 1: He is. He's not hiding this wealth at all. He's

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flaunting it. Behaves like a medieval aristocrat, not a parish priest.

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He becomes the seigneur of the village, the lord.

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Speaker 2: But he also does something really weird with the church renovation. Yeah,

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he doesn't just fix it up a code. He decorates

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it in a very let's say, a very unique style.

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Speaker 1: Unique is a very polite way to put it. I'd

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say it's bizarre. It's unsettling.

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Speaker 2: That's probably more accurate.

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Speaker 1: Okay, tell us about the devil, because when you walk

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into a Catholic church, you expect to see I don't

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know Saint Peter or an angel or Jesus.

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Speaker 2: Right at Rendles Chateau when you walk through the door,

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the very first thing you see, the thing that is

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supporting the Holy water stoop.

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Speaker 1: The little basin where you dip your hand to.

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Speaker 2: Bless yourself exactly holding that up is a terrifying crouching demon.

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Speaker 1: It's a statue of a devil right at the entrance.

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Speaker 2: Specifically, it's believed to represent as Modeus. Now in demonology,

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as Modius is the keeper of hidden treasures, and he

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was the demon who supposedly helped build Solomon's temple.

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Speaker 1: That's a very specific choice.

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Speaker 2: It is. He looks like he's being crushed under the

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weight of the Holy water, but his eyes are wild

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and he's scaring right at you. It is incredibly jarring.

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Speaker 1: And then there's the mural.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, he commissions this huge fresco to go above

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the altar. It's supposed to be Christ preaching on the mount,

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but the details are all wrong. How So, the landscape

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in the painting looks exactly like the view from Rendless Chateau.

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And if you look very closely at the bottom of

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the painting, there's a money bag.

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Speaker 1: A literal bag of money in a painting of Jesus.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and the bag has a hole in it and

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the single gold coin is peeping out about to fall.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it feels like he's trolling everyone. It feels like

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he's leaving breadcrumbs for people to find.

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Speaker 2: It does, doesn't it? It feels like a taunt, like

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he's saying, I found the treasure. It's right here in

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front of you can see it. Or maybe the very

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foundation of the church is built on gold, so.

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Speaker 1: Naturally people start to whisper. Is the devil a clue

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to the treasure's guardian? Is the money bag map?

410
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Speaker 2: Or is it just the incredible ego of a man

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who found a pot of gold and wants to immortalize

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his good luck. But the symbolism is just so heavy.

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Sonia knows exactly what he's doing. He is building a

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myth around himself. He wants people to wonder.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the party can't last forever. You can't

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just spend millions of francs and have a pet monkey

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without the boss noticing. Eventually, the Catholic Church is an

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organization that really likes order and accountability.

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Speaker 2: And eventually the church strikes back in nineteen oh two,

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the old easygoing bishop dies and a new bishop arrives

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in the region, a man named Monsigneur Bosagour.

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Speaker 1: And Bosezour is different, very different.

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Speaker 2: He's a strict administrator, a buy the book guy, and

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he's not amused by Sonier's antics. He sees this lavish lifestyle,

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this open defiance, and he demands an answer to one simple.

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Speaker 1: Question, where did the money come from?

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Speaker 2: Show me your accounts justify this?

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Speaker 1: And Sonyor says nothing.

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Speaker 2: He completely stone walls the bishop. He basically says, my

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possessions are here, I'm staying here. Mind your own business.

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I owe you no explanation.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that takes some serious nerve. He's talking to a

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superior officer, essentially.

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Speaker 2: It does, and it leads to a massive, protracted conflict.

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The bishop demands he leave the parish. Sognyeer refuses to go.

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This escalates to an ecclesiastical trial that goes all the

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way to the Vatican in Rome.

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Speaker 1: A trial in Rome. This is big time.

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Speaker 2: It is and it lasts for six years. Sonya is

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so wealthy by this point that he hires these very

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expensive cannon lawyers to fight the Vatican on his behalf.

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But he never actually attends the trial himself.

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Speaker 1: He's too busy enjoying his villa and his rum pretty much.

444
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And what's the final verdict?

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Speaker 2: He loses eventually he is charged with simony, which is

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the buying or selling of spiritual things, and we will

447
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definitely get to that later, and also with disobedience. He

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is stripped of his priesthood. He is suspended into venice,

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which means it means he can no longer say mass,

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he can no longer administer sacraments. He's fired for a priest.

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That's the ultimate punishment.

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Speaker 1: But he doesn't leave the village.

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Speaker 2: No, he is defiant to the very end. He says, fine,

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I'm not the priest of the official church anymore, then

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I'll be the priest in my house. He sets up

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a private altar in the glass conservatory of his villa,

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and the villagers, the villagers who adore him, they stop

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going to the official church with the new priest, and

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they start coming to his villa for mass instead. He

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literally creates a schism in a village of three hundred people.

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Speaker 1: That is incredible charisma. He really was the king.

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Speaker 2: But then the end comes. The year is nineteen seventeen.

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We're in the middle of World War One.

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Speaker 1: How does he die? Is it mysterious?

465
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Speaker 2: Not really? The high life just catches up with him.

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He suffers a stroke which leads to heart failure, probably

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with complications from cirrhosis of the liver. All that rum

468
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,240
and rish food. He's sixty five years old.

469
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,440
Speaker 1: But here is the real shocker. When he dies, everyone

470
00:21:53,519 --> 00:21:57,400
expends a massive inheritance. The villagers, the church, even his

471
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,119
distant family. Everyone thinks he's sitting on a gold mine.

472
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:01,720
They're ready to fight over the.

473
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 2: Millions circling like vultures.

474
00:22:03,599 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 1: What do they find.

475
00:22:04,759 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 2: The cupboards are bare. He is officially on paper penniless.

476
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,440
There is nothing in his name zero.

477
00:22:12,079 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 1: Where did it all go? Did he really spend every

478
00:22:14,559 --> 00:22:16,039
last franc He spent a.

479
00:22:16,039 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 2: Lot, But no, he also hit it. He was clever.

480
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,720
He had transferred everything, the villa, the land, the tower,

481
00:22:21,759 --> 00:22:26,759
the cash into read Dinarnoud's name. He is housekeeper, his partner.

482
00:22:26,799 --> 00:22:29,519
He did it years prior as a legal strategy to

483
00:22:29,559 --> 00:22:31,640
stop the Church from being able to seize it if

484
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:32,440
he lost the trial.

485
00:22:32,799 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 1: So the priest dies and the housekeeper inherits the entire kingdom.

486
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,799
Speaker 2: And now Marie is the queen of Rendlely Chateau.

487
00:22:39,839 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 1: A very lonely queen, it sounds like.

488
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,880
Speaker 2: Very She lives on in that big mansion for decades.

489
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,200
She becomes a recluse. The money, it seems, eventually runs

490
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,240
out by the postwar years in the forties. She's really

491
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,240
struggling just to pay the taxes on the property.

492
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,279
Speaker 1: But there are these little glimpses, these hints that suggest

493
00:22:57,319 --> 00:22:59,680
the mystery didn't die with Sonyer.

494
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 2: Story is fascinating. I love this image.

495
00:23:02,039 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 1: It's so evocative, isn't it tell us?

496
00:23:04,079 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 2: Yes, the neighbors would sometimes see her, this old woman,

497
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,039
out in her garden, and she would be wearing the

498
00:23:11,039 --> 00:23:16,599
most incredible antique jewelry. We're talking gold necklaces, bracelets encrusted

499
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,240
with gems, just hanging on her arms, shimmering in the sunlight.

500
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,279
Speaker 1: Like she just pulled them out of a chest exactly.

501
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,799
Speaker 2: She looked like a relic herself. But if anyone complimented

502
00:23:25,839 --> 00:23:28,039
her on the jewelry, or even got too close to look,

503
00:23:28,319 --> 00:23:30,880
she would panic. She would run inside, hide it away

504
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:32,279
and they'd never see it again.

505
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 1: And she would make these cryptic promises to the villagers.

506
00:23:35,519 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 2: She did. She was famous for it. She would tell people,

507
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,240
don't you worry about me. With what the abbe Signiere left,

508
00:23:42,559 --> 00:23:45,240
we could feed this whole village for one hundred years.

509
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 1: She kept the flame of the mystery alive. She implied

510
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,720
that she held the key, that she knew where the rest.

511
00:23:50,519 --> 00:23:52,640
Speaker 2: Of the treasure was buried, Which brings us to the

512
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:53,880
next chapter of our story.

513
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,039
Speaker 1: The myth maker right, because Marie eventually gets old, she

514
00:23:58,079 --> 00:24:01,920
gets frail, and she needs help. She can't possibly maintain

515
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,000
this huge, crumbling mansion all by herself.

516
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 2: Enter Noel Corbu. The year is nineteen forty six, the

517
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,039
war is over. Corbu is a businessman, an industrialist from

518
00:24:13,079 --> 00:24:16,480
the city of Perpignon, and he's also an aspiring novelist.

519
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,440
He's a bit of a dreamer, a romantic very much so.

520
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,319
He takes his family for a drive one day, stumbles

521
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,119
upon this incredible estate up in the mountains and just

522
00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:27,720
falls in love with it. He meets Marie, who by

523
00:24:27,759 --> 00:24:31,160
now is an impoverished elderly woman living all alone in

524
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:32,359
this decaying.

525
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: Mansion, and they struck a deal.

526
00:24:33,519 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 2: It's a classic Vagier arrangement, which is quite common in France.

527
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,680
Corbu agrees to pay off all her debts. He moves

528
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,640
his family in and he takes care of her for

529
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,039
the rest of her life and in return, in return,

530
00:24:44,279 --> 00:24:47,759
he inherits the entire estate. When she dies, but there's

531
00:24:47,799 --> 00:24:50,440
a carrot, a huge carrot is dangling in front of him.

532
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,240
Marie promises him the secret.

533
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 1: She tells him wait until I'm on my deathbed, exactly

534
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:56,160
those words.

535
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,759
Speaker 2: She says, Monsieur Corbu, you are a good man. You

536
00:24:58,839 --> 00:25:01,279
are good to me when I know I'm dying, and

537
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,640
not a single moment before, I will tell you a

538
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,200
secret that will make you a rich and famous man.

539
00:25:06,519 --> 00:25:10,759
Speaker 1: Oh man, imagine living with that anticipation. Korbu is caring

540
00:25:10,799 --> 00:25:14,119
for her, feeding her, fixing the leaking roof, all while

541
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,440
waiting for the jackpot for years, and then the anti

542
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:18,640
climax of the century.

543
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 2: It's brutal. In nineteen fifty three, Maurice suffers a massive stroke.

544
00:25:22,759 --> 00:25:25,799
She completely loses the ability to speak or to write.

545
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,359
She is locked inside her own body.

546
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: Oh No.

547
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 2: Corbu sits by her bedside for weeks, just desperate, hoping

548
00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:35,200
for a lucid moment, a whisper, a scribble on a

549
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:40,200
pad of paper, anything, But she dies in total silence.

550
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,640
The secret, if there even was one, goes to the

551
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:44,240
grave with her.

552
00:25:44,319 --> 00:25:47,079
Speaker 1: That is just devastating. Poor Corbu. He's left with a

553
00:25:47,079 --> 00:25:49,920
crumbling mansion, no gold, no map, and he's spent years

554
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:51,440
of his life taking care of this woman.

555
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 2: But Corbu is an entrepreneur. He's been handed a lemon,

556
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,279
a very big, very expensive lemon, and he decides he's

557
00:25:57,319 --> 00:25:59,160
going to make the most famous lemonade in history.

558
00:25:59,240 --> 00:25:59,759
Speaker 1: What does he do?

559
00:26:00,039 --> 00:26:03,039
Speaker 2: He converts Sevilla Bethania into a hotel and he opens

560
00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:05,680
a restaurant in the gardens. But here's the problem. Rend

561
00:26:05,759 --> 00:26:07,599
lu Chateau is in the middle of nowhere. The road

562
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,160
is still terrible. Why would anyone drive all the way

563
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:11,240
up there just to eat dinner.

564
00:26:11,279 --> 00:26:13,039
Speaker 1: You have to give them a story, You have.

565
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 2: To give them a mystery. Korby takes the fragments of truth.

566
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,759
He knows the rich priest, the sudden spending, the village rumors,

567
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,759
and he spins a yarn. He becomes a master storyteller.

568
00:26:24,039 --> 00:26:26,279
He invents the Blanche of Castile theory.

569
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: Blanche of Castile, the queen of France from the Middle Ages, the.

570
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 2: Very one, the mother of Saint Louis Coorbu claims that

571
00:26:34,279 --> 00:26:37,160
Sannier didn't just find a pot of coins. He found

572
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,400
the lost royal treasury of Queen Blanche.

573
00:26:39,519 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 1: And how much was that worth.

574
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 2: According to Corbu's story, it was eighteen million gold pieces

575
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,920
buried in the thirteenth century to hide it from rebellious barons.

576
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: That's a good story.

577
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 2: It's a great story. It sounds romantic, it sounds historical,

578
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,799
and most importantly, it sounds like there's still more gold

579
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:56,759
down there, just waiting to be found.

580
00:26:56,839 --> 00:26:58,519
Speaker 1: And it works. People buy it.

581
00:26:58,519 --> 00:27:01,519
Speaker 2: It works like a charm. He records a tape. This

582
00:27:01,599 --> 00:27:04,880
is fantastic detail. He records a dramatic narration of the

583
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,319
whole story on a real to real tape player, and

584
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,240
during dinner service at his new restaurant, he plays the

585
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:12,359
tape for all the guests.

586
00:27:12,599 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 1: Listen to the mystery while you eat your duck.

587
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 2: Confit precisely, and tourists start flocking. Journalists start coming up

588
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,559
the mountain. Treasure hunters arrive with metal detectors and shovels.

589
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,519
Corbu even gets to play the role of Sognier in

590
00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:30,000
a TV documentary in nineteen sixty one. He becomes the

591
00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:32,160
face of the mystery he created.

592
00:27:31,799 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: So he saves his business by selling the legend he does.

593
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 2: But in doing so, Corbu accidentally starts something much, much

594
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,160
bigger because the treasure hunters who come, they don't just

595
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,359
look for gold, They start looking for meaning.

596
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: And this is where the story completely jumps the shark.

597
00:27:47,759 --> 00:27:50,079
Speaker 2: This is where it goes into orbit. The village becomes

598
00:27:50,079 --> 00:27:53,960
honeycombed with holes. People are literally using dynamite to blast

599
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,640
open the ground. The government actually has to ban all

600
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,920
excavations in nineteen sixty five because the village is looking

601
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:03,119
like Swiss cheese and historic buildings are threatening to collapse.

602
00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:06,759
Speaker 1: But the nature of the treasure itself, it starts to shift.

603
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,279
Speaker 2: It does. We are moving from pot of gold to

604
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:10,559
Jesus bloodline.

605
00:28:10,599 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: And it all starts with a French journalist named Gerard

606
00:28:13,319 --> 00:28:13,720
de Said.

607
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,079
Speaker 2: Right in nineteen sixty seven, he publishes a book called

608
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,359
The Gold of Wrin. He takes Nol Corbu's story and

609
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,680
he just amplifies it. He claims Sonia found parchments with

610
00:28:24,799 --> 00:28:29,000
secret codes. But des Said isn't working alone. He's being

611
00:28:29,079 --> 00:28:32,880
fed information by a very strange man named Pierre Plantard.

612
00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:36,599
Speaker 1: Plantard, this guy is the key. He is the architect

613
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,400
of the entire modern myth. He's the one who pivots

614
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:40,759
the story away from treasure.

615
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 2: Pierre Plantard is a fascinating character. He is a career

616
00:28:44,119 --> 00:28:47,559
con man, a fantasist, an anti Semite, and a man

617
00:28:47,599 --> 00:28:51,599
who is pathologically obsessed with status. He doesn't care about money.

618
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: He wants to be royalty and how does rendle Chateau

619
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:55,039
help him with that.

620
00:28:55,319 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 2: He claims that the document Sonya found weren't a treasure map.

621
00:28:58,359 --> 00:29:00,759
He claims they were genealogical charts that prove the meri

622
00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:04,160
of engine royal line, specifically, King Dagobert the Second, who

623
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,240
was assassinated in the seventh century, didn't actually die out

624
00:29:07,319 --> 00:29:07,839
and let.

625
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: Me guess, Peer Plantard is the last living descendant.

626
00:29:10,519 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 2: Surprise, surprise, Peer Plantard claims to be the direct living

627
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,119
descendant of dagbart At the second and therefore the one

628
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,400
true rightful king of France.

629
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,759
Speaker 1: So the priest didn't find gold, he found Plantard's birth certificate.

630
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 2: Essentially yes, but Plantard needs proof, so he fabricates an

631
00:29:28,039 --> 00:29:30,839
entire secret society from a whole cloth. He calls it

632
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,160
the Priory of Scion. He claims this ancient society has

633
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,480
existed for a thousand years, all for the sole purpose

634
00:29:37,559 --> 00:29:41,720
of protecting this sacred blood line. And he lists famous

635
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:46,200
past members like Leonardo da Vinci, Isaac Newton, Victor Hugos.

636
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: This is literally the plot of the Da Vinci Code.

637
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: It is exactly the plot because Dan Brown took this

638
00:29:51,839 --> 00:29:55,359
complete hoax and presented it as factual history in the

639
00:29:55,359 --> 00:29:56,319
introduction to his book.

640
00:29:56,359 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: But Plantard went to incredible lengths to sell this, didn't

641
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:00,680
he Blans.

642
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,599
Speaker 2: He and his friend, a man named Philippe de Cherrez,

643
00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:06,759
actually forged documents. They typed up these fake genealogies on

644
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,240
old paper to make them look authentic. They created fake

645
00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:12,400
historical records. And then this is the most brazen part.

646
00:30:12,599 --> 00:30:16,240
They walked into the National Library in Paris, a BiblioTech Nationale,

647
00:30:16,359 --> 00:30:18,839
and they physically planted these files in the archives.

648
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,359
Speaker 1: He planted them like, just snuck them onto the shelves

649
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:22,240
when no one was looking.

650
00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:27,119
Speaker 2: Yes, they just slid their forged papers into the existing folders,

651
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,680
so that later when researchers went to check on his story,

652
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,480
they would find the documents. Oh look, here's the proof,

653
00:30:33,519 --> 00:30:35,119
it's right here in the National Library.

654
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: That is analog hacking. It's brilliant and it is totally insane.

655
00:30:39,839 --> 00:30:42,319
Speaker 2: It is I mean, honestly, you have to respect the

656
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,279
hustle that is commitment to the bit. It really is,

657
00:30:45,319 --> 00:30:48,319
and it creates this perfect feedback loop of false information.

658
00:30:49,359 --> 00:30:52,400
But then the story jumps across the English Channel to Britain.

659
00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:56,119
A scriptwriter for the BBC named Henry Lincoln is on

660
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,359
vacation in France and he reads Dessaid's book and he

661
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,480
is hooked, completely hooked. He becomes obsessed. He thinks he

662
00:31:02,559 --> 00:31:06,119
sees hidden codes and geometric patterns in the parchments that

663
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,079
Plantard forged.

664
00:31:07,119 --> 00:31:08,839
Speaker 1: He's finding patterns that aren't really there.

665
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: He is, and he takes the creative leap that changes

666
00:31:12,039 --> 00:31:15,000
everything forever. He looks at the medieval French term for

667
00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:18,559
the holy grail, sangril, right, and he breaks the words

668
00:31:18,559 --> 00:31:23,279
differently and says sangreal holy grail. He reinterprets it as sangriel,

669
00:31:23,519 --> 00:31:27,759
royal blood, royal blood, and suddenly, in a flash of inspiration,

670
00:31:28,359 --> 00:31:31,960
the treasure isn't a cup, it's not gold, It's a blood.

671
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,519
Speaker 1: Line, the blood line of Christ.

672
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: Henry Lincoln, along with two co authors, writes the book

673
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,920
The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail in the early eighties,

674
00:31:39,519 --> 00:31:42,720
and they argue that Baron Gerisagnier didn't find treasure. He

675
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:45,920
found proof that Jesus and Mary Magdalen were married, had

676
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,480
a child, and that their sacred blood line became the

677
00:31:48,519 --> 00:31:50,319
mayor of Vingie, Kings of France.

678
00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:53,359
Speaker 1: And that the money Sonya had was blackmail money from

679
00:31:53,359 --> 00:31:56,680
the Vatican. Pay me to stay quiet, or I will

680
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,759
tell the world that Jesus had a kid. And your

681
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,880
entire religion is built on a lie.

682
00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 2: Exactly. It explains the money, it explains his secrecy, it

683
00:32:04,279 --> 00:32:07,680
explains his defiance toward the bishop. It fits perfectly. Yeah,

684
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,000
if you completely ignore the fact that the foundational documents

685
00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:14,319
were forged by a wannabe king named Peer Plantard in

686
00:32:14,319 --> 00:32:15,720
the nineteen sixties, it is.

687
00:32:15,759 --> 00:32:17,839
Speaker 1: Just mind blowing to trace that chain of events. A

688
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,839
priest scam some money, his lover keeps the secret. A

689
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,119
hotel owner invents a treasure story to sell rooms, a

690
00:32:24,279 --> 00:32:27,359
narcissist hijacks that story to pretend he's a king, and

691
00:32:27,359 --> 00:32:29,359
then a writer turns that into Jesus had.

692
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,079
Speaker 2: A baby, and millions and millions of people believe it

693
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,599
is true. It is a master class in how myths evolve.

694
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,519
You layer a lie on top of a scam, on

695
00:32:39,599 --> 00:32:40,359
top of a hope.

696
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,039
Speaker 1: Well, let's bring it all back down to earth, because

697
00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:45,200
we promised everyone the grubby truth.

698
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 2: You did so.

699
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: If there was no Blanche of castile treasure, and if

700
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,640
the Jesus bloodline was a fantasy made up by Pierre Plantard,

701
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,319
where did Sonia really get the money? We need to

702
00:32:55,319 --> 00:32:56,079
follow the money.

703
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 2: And the answer isn't in a crypt and it's not

704
00:32:58,319 --> 00:33:01,279
a secret dossier. It's in the paperwork, the boring stuff,

705
00:33:01,319 --> 00:33:04,200
the boring stuff. We have Signier's account books, we have

706
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,240
the records on the ecclesiastical trial. We know from post

707
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:09,839
office records that Marie was picking up one hundred and

708
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,240
fifty letters a day, one.

709
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: Hundred and fifty letters a day in a village of

710
00:33:13,759 --> 00:33:17,039
three hundred people. That is a red flag the size

711
00:33:17,079 --> 00:33:18,920
of the Eiffel Tower, it is, and.

712
00:33:18,839 --> 00:33:22,359
Speaker 2: The contents of those letters reveal the whole scam. Soignier

713
00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:25,319
was engaged in a practice called trafficking in masses.

714
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,079
Speaker 1: Okay, we need to break that down. What does that

715
00:33:27,119 --> 00:33:29,960
actually mean? Trafficking in masses? How does that generate millions

716
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:30,480
of francs?

717
00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 2: So in the Catholic church, a person can pay a

718
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,480
priest to say a mass for a specific intention. Usually

719
00:33:37,519 --> 00:33:40,240
it's for the soul of a deceased loved one to

720
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,240
help them get out of purgatory faster, and it's standard

721
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,119
practice to offer a small stipend a fee to the

722
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,680
priest for this service. At the time, the going rate

723
00:33:49,799 --> 00:33:51,039
was about one and a half.

724
00:33:50,839 --> 00:33:54,599
Speaker 1: Francs, so lunch money. It's not a lot, right.

725
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,799
Speaker 2: It's negligible, but there are very strict rules. Canon law

726
00:33:58,839 --> 00:34:01,279
says a priest can only set payment for a maximum

727
00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:03,599
of three masses per day, because that's all he can

728
00:34:03,599 --> 00:34:05,920
physically say. You can't get paid for a mass you

729
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:07,119
don't actually perform.

730
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: So how to son your scale it?

731
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 2: He turns it into a mail order business, an international

732
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,599
mail order fraud. He buys a directory of every Catholic parish,

733
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:19,440
convent and hospital across Europe. He then places advertisements in

734
00:34:19,519 --> 00:34:23,960
religious magazines in Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, all over France.

735
00:34:24,039 --> 00:34:25,159
Speaker 1: And what did the ads say?

736
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,559
Speaker 2: He styles himself as a poor priest and a poor

737
00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:29,920
village with a church on the verge of collapse, who

738
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,519
will pray for your salvation. He creates this elaborate sob story.

739
00:34:33,559 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 1: He basically invented crowdfunding.

740
00:34:35,559 --> 00:34:38,679
Speaker 2: He did, and because he was a priest, people trusted

741
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,320
him implicitly. They sent him money orders, Please say a

742
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,239
mass for my late husband, Please pray for my sick child.

743
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,440
The money just poured in. We have records showing tens

744
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:50,159
of thousands of.

745
00:34:50,119 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 1: Requests, but he couldn't possibly say all those masses.

746
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,159
Speaker 2: It would have taken him hundreds of years to say

747
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:57,920
all the masses he was paid for. He received payment

748
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,880
for something like one hundred thousand masses. He just took

749
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,679
the money, he pocketed it, and he threw the requests

750
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:04,280
in a pile.

751
00:35:04,519 --> 00:35:07,079
Speaker 1: It was fraud, pure and simple. He was running a

752
00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:08,519
Ponzi scheme with prayers.

753
00:35:08,599 --> 00:35:11,760
Speaker 2: That is perfect analogy. He was selling a spiritual product

754
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,800
that he had absolutely no intention of ever delivering.

755
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: And that explains the scale of the wealth.

756
00:35:16,679 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 2: Exactly one and a half francs isn't much, but one

757
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,920
and a half francs times one hundred thousand, that's one

758
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,199
hundred and fifty thousand francs. That builds the villa, that

759
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,760
buys the lamas, that buys the rum from Martinique.

760
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 1: And that explains the secrecy. It all clicks into place.

761
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 2: Yes, why did he refuse to tell the bishop where

762
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,239
the money came from? Because I found a pot of

763
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,039
gold is a romantic story. Even I found a hidden

764
00:35:41,079 --> 00:35:45,840
tomb is mysterious and exciting. But I am systematically ripping

765
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,519
off pious widows across Europe via mail fraud that.

766
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: Gets you excommunicated and thrown in jail.

767
00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 2: It is a shameful, sordid, grubby crime.

768
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,039
Speaker 1: And this explains Marie's behavior after his death too.

769
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 2: Yes, why did Marie lie all those years? Why did

770
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,840
she tell Noel Korber about a great treasure? Because the

771
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,840
truth was a crime. By calling it treasure, she made

772
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,880
it almost legalish in France. If you find treasure on

773
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,159
your own land, it's yours. If you steal money, you're

774
00:36:12,199 --> 00:36:16,440
a criminal. She was protecting Sonya's legacy in her own safety.

775
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,559
Speaker 1: And then later she lied to Korbu just to ensure

776
00:36:18,599 --> 00:36:20,480
he would take care of her in her old age.

777
00:36:20,519 --> 00:36:22,920
She was, as the source says, singing for her supper.

778
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 2: She was a survivor. She was smart. She knew Korbu

779
00:36:25,559 --> 00:36:27,360
wouldn't pay off her debts and look after her if

780
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,519
she just said, oh, by the way, the money's all gone,

781
00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:31,639
and it was all stolen anyway. She had to promise

782
00:36:31,679 --> 00:36:33,400
him a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow,

783
00:36:33,519 --> 00:36:34,920
just to keep a roof over her head.

784
00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: It's actually quite tragic when you look at it that way.

785
00:36:37,559 --> 00:36:40,880
Everyone in this story is just desperate for something.

786
00:36:41,039 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 2: It's a story of human longing, isn't it. Sonnier is

787
00:36:44,079 --> 00:36:47,760
desperate for status and wealth. Marie is desperate for security,

788
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,280
Corbu is desperate to make his mark. Plantard is desperate

789
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:52,079
to be royalty.

790
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: We all want to be more than we are, and

791
00:36:54,599 --> 00:36:54,880
we are.

792
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,519
Speaker 2: All willing to believe beautiful lies to get there.

793
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: And yet tens of thousands of people still visit rendles

794
00:37:01,559 --> 00:37:04,639
Chateau every single year, even though we know about the

795
00:37:04,639 --> 00:37:07,719
mass trafficking, even though we know for a fact Plantard

796
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,239
forged the documents, even though the da Vinci Code is fiction,

797
00:37:12,119 --> 00:37:13,119
people still go.

798
00:37:13,199 --> 00:37:17,039
Speaker 2: Because, as the source material so perfectly puts it, who

799
00:37:17,079 --> 00:37:19,440
needs the truth when we can have a mystery, right,

800
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,239
There's a deep psychological need in us to believe in

801
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,400
something bigger. People want to stand in that weird little church,

802
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,320
look at that creepy devil statue and feel a shiver.

803
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,079
Go down their spine. They want the world to be magical.

804
00:37:32,119 --> 00:37:34,039
They don't want the world to be about accounting fraud.

805
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 1: Confirmation bias plays a huge role here, doesn't it. Once

806
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,000
you're looking for a mystery.

807
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,159
Speaker 2: It's everything. Absolutely. Once you believe there is a secret,

808
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:46,000
everything looks like a clue. The devil statue isn't just

809
00:37:46,039 --> 00:37:49,800
a piece of bad art, it's a code. The money

810
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,920
bag in the fresco isn't a brazen confession of greed,

811
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,880
it's a map. The weirdly patterned floor tiles are celestial coordinates.

812
00:37:58,079 --> 00:37:59,360
You see what you want to see.

813
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,280
Speaker 1: It is just fascinating that this small time grifter, just

814
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,519
by being greedy and having a really good poker face,

815
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,760
inadvertently created a religion shaking global conspiracy theory.

816
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,199
Speaker 2: He was the tree that hides the forest. As the

817
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,039
documentary so nicely puts it, the real story isn't about

818
00:38:14,039 --> 00:38:16,239
what he found, It's about what we as a culture

819
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,079
projected onto him. He provided the blank canvas a rich

820
00:38:20,119 --> 00:38:23,079
priest in a poor village, and for seventy years we've

821
00:38:23,119 --> 00:38:24,840
been painting our own obsessions onto it.

822
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,079
Speaker 1: So what does this all mean for us?

823
00:38:26,119 --> 00:38:26,280
Speaker 2: Then?

824
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:27,119
Speaker 1: What's the takeaway?

825
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: I think it's a powerful reminder to always question the narrative.

826
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,559
We love a good story, we are hardwired for it.

827
00:38:33,679 --> 00:38:36,519
We love the idea of hidden bloodlines and ancient treasures.

828
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,400
But usually the real answer is much more grubby. As

829
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,760
you said earlier, it's usually just about human nature, about money,

830
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:48,519
and about deception. It's Okham's razor. The simplest explanation he

831
00:38:48,599 --> 00:38:51,360
stole the money is almost always the right one.

832
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,119
Speaker 1: But you have to admit, standing in that village, looking

833
00:38:54,119 --> 00:38:57,280
out from the tour Magdala over the valley, it does

834
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,199
feel like something special happened there.

835
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,159
Speaker 2: Oh. Absolutely, the village is still there, The bizarre atmosphere

836
00:39:02,199 --> 00:39:04,840
is still there. The story, even though we know it's

837
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,760
a lie, has changed the world. It changes literature, It

838
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,440
changed tourism, It changed how millions of people view history

839
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,559
in a way. Sonier did achieve immortality.

840
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:16,559
Speaker 1: That's a great point.

841
00:39:16,599 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 2: He wanted to be a bishop, but he became a

842
00:39:18,079 --> 00:39:20,679
legend instead, just not in the way he ever could

843
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:21,320
have expected.

844
00:39:21,519 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: He wanted to be the King of Wren, and now

845
00:39:23,039 --> 00:39:26,320
he's the undisputed king of conspiracies. Before we wrap up,

846
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,239
I want to leave our listener with a final thought,

847
00:39:28,639 --> 00:39:31,800
even though we've pretty thoroughly debunked the gold in the bloodline,

848
00:39:32,199 --> 00:39:36,960
the magical atmosphere of Rendles Chateau remains. The mystery itself

849
00:39:37,079 --> 00:39:40,800
became the real treasure. The entire economy of that village

850
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,679
today runs on the mystery.

851
00:39:43,039 --> 00:39:46,039
Speaker 2: That's the great paradox, isn't it. The lie became far

852
00:39:46,119 --> 00:39:49,480
more valuable than the truth ever could have been. If

853
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,320
he had just been a rich priest who got caught,

854
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:53,039
no one would care today.

855
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,159
Speaker 1: And so here is a question for you, the listener,

856
00:39:55,199 --> 00:39:57,039
and I want you to really think about this. Put

857
00:39:57,079 --> 00:40:00,400
yourself in Noel Corbu's shoes. It's nineteen fifty three. You

858
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,880
spend years of your life and your savings caring for

859
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,639
this elderly woman, expecting a fortune. She dies, you find

860
00:40:06,639 --> 00:40:08,920
out the secret was a lie. You are broke. You

861
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,519
have a family to feed and a crumbling mansion to maintain.

862
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,800
Would you have told the truth and lost everything? Or

863
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,880
would you have done exactly what he did, invent a

864
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,519
spectacular treasure story to save yourself.

865
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,119
Speaker 2: It's a real test of integrity versus survival. It's so

866
00:40:23,199 --> 00:40:25,360
easy for us to judge him from our chairs, but

867
00:40:26,159 --> 00:40:27,280
in that moment.

868
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,039
Speaker 1: That's a tough call, it really is. Let us know

869
00:40:30,079 --> 00:40:33,079
what you think. Would you spin the yarn, drop us

870
00:40:33,079 --> 00:40:34,719
a comment, or send us a message.

871
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:36,639
Speaker 2: I would love to hear the answers to that one.

872
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Thrilling Threads. Keep pulling out those

873
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,480
loose ends. You never know what you'll unravel until next

874
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:42,719
time