Speaker 1: What is up, fellow stick as I am Danna Valley
coming at you with yet another.
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty four twenty twenty five MBA.
Speaker 1: Look at We're on to the San Antonio Spurs, which
means it's time to speak with Noah Magaro George. He
covers the San Antonio Spurs and does an excellent job
of doing so, if I say so myself. At the
vic and Roll, follow him on Twitter at N Underscore Magara.
That's at N Underscore m A G A r O,
and follow and subscribe to the vic and Roll on
Twitter at v C Underscore A N D Underscore r.
Speaker 3: O l L.
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Tell people about his friends, family members, enemies, acquaintances, the
whole nine. As we continue to grow. But that's enough
out of me. Let's get to talking some San Antonio
Spurs with Noah.
Speaker 2: Noah, Welcome back.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming back on for our
San Antonio Spurs look ahead this season.
Speaker 2: How the heck are you doing?
Speaker 3: I'm doing great. It has been an interesting off season
for the Spurs. Maybe not what every fan hoped that.
There was certainly some wheeling and dealing going on. It's
not the same exact team as a season ago. And
it's been a nice summer in Texas. I can't complain.
I've loved it. Wouldn't you just tell me? It was
like one hundred and twenty degrees every day in Texas?
Is that considered like a nice summer still? Yeah? Yeah,
So we had like ten straight days of one hundred
degree weather. I think last year we set the record
at like fifty something in a row in San Antonio.
So yeah, it's a little bit better. Less hot than
a year ago. Somehow, it's less hot than a year ago.
Speaker 1: Your heats on is what you're saying. You haven't had
two de conxecutive day weather.
Speaker 2: So you mentioned people.
Speaker 1: I get some people not wanting more or they want
more out of the Spurs off season.
Speaker 2: Excuse me?
Speaker 1: What did you make of their offseason, especially against the
backdrop of I felt like I saw this more nationally
than necessarily fans of the Spurs ranos of the first
Spurs calling for it, but thinking that they needed to
just make some blockbuster like it.
Speaker 2: Had to be, Like it wasn't. Oh, they could do
this and it might make sense, Like no, they had
to do.
Speaker 1: So what did you like? What was your read on
of their direction and their plans based off what they
did this offseason?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was a huge fan of what they did.
Not to be a complete homer, because I try to
be as unbiased as possible, but I think they did
an excellent job of really setting the tone of Okay,
we want to get a little bit better. We've added
Chris Paul, We've added Harrison Barnes, We've drafted Stefan Castle.
These are all guys who should be in the rotation
right away, right, guys who can improve this team. You're
going to have a full forty eight minutes of point
guard play, real point guard play every night. But then
they also are flexible. Right, they were able to trade.
I think we'll talk about that later, but they traded
the eighth pick. They stayed flexible. They added more first
round picks, they have more future pick swaps, they have
cash considerations that they added whatever that does for them.
So like they stayed flexible while still improving. And I
think that's exactly what they have aimed to do because
Brian Right and Greg Popovich, whether directly or indirectly, have
said multiple times that they're not trying to just go
all in right away, right away, right away, and you know,
we need to win year one with Victor. That was
never the goal. You know, They're never they weren't just
going to jump into this right away and make rash moves.
They're looking long term. They want to build something sustainable.
And I know as much as Spurs fans and maybe
even some national media members might look and go, well,
you know, the Duncan Era lasted nineteen years and five championships.
That doesn't happen overnight. It's not an accident. It has
to be carefully planned. So I think that they're doing
an excellent job of just trying to recreate a long
term sort of system here that's sustainable, that's not just
going to be oh, well, we have a small five
year window and now it's closed and we got to
figure something out down the line. No, I think they're
really building for something sustainable long term.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting too because it feels like they made
that Like the number eight pick trade was first. So
when I heard that, I was like, oh my god,
did Minnesota like trade Karl Anthony Towns because there was
the it had San Antonio trade the number eight pick
without a return. That was interesting too because it feels
like it reinforced everything you just said to where it's
I don't know if the Spurs.
Speaker 2: I don't think the Spurs got those.
Speaker 1: Picks with the intention of keeping those picks where it's like,
this is now going to be assets in the clip
that maybe we don't move off of in twenty four
or twenty five, and maybe it's un till twenty six
or twenty seven, but we have all these other extra
picks from the Hawks coming in like we're going to
eventually there will be a consolidation move or there will
be a swing and we're prepping for it. And so
I viewed that as encouraging immediately because it wasn't It
wasn't them sort of kicking the can without a planet
Like that trade poued me and think like, okay, they
even if I even if you didn't like who they picked,
at number four and Stefan Castle will get to him.
That trade made me think like, Okay, like this is
gonna happen at some point. It's not going to be immediately,
and I didn't think it needed to be immediately because
Victor's so young and so are some of the other
players on this team. Like I looked at that trade,
it's sort of the okay, like the Spurs are serious
about this, it's gonna happen.
Speaker 2: They're just sort of biding their time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that's exactly the way to look
at things, because again, you know, there was all this
talk about from especially the like big national talking heads
of oh they got to go get Lori marken In,
they got to go get Darius Garland, or are they
gonna go get Trey Young? And like, don't get me wrong,
I think a lot of those names are really fascinating
and I definitely flirted myself with the idea of adding
one of those names to the Spurs and how exciting
that can be. But I think it took a lot
of gall it took a lot of patience, It took
a lot of self confidence and jaw and your own
job security is Brian right, as the general manager to go, Okay,
I don't have to go all in right now. My
job's not on the line, like we're building something consistently,
and it's not just like building consistency through like the
players on the team. But I think also the staff,
right they want to have like a consistency and in
their plan, a consistency in the players. They want to
have something that lasts a long time. So I applaud
them for that. I'm not saying it was a perfect offseason.
If you asked me to grade it, I certainly wouldn't
say A plus they were perfect, because that's that's not true.
There's definitely things that could have been done better. But
you know, I would say I give it an A.
I would give it an A. I'll stand right here
and tell you I think it's an a off season.
They were able to kind of have their cake and
eat it too, in a sense, so I think that
they did a solid job.
Speaker 1: There will be someone in the YouTube comments who's mad
that you didn't give them an A plus.
Speaker 2: I just want you to I'm sure.
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's only okay, you can't please everybody.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you did touch on something and regular listeners
of this podcast are gonna be sick of me hearing this.
But like you're talking, like Brian Wright, accepting not just
as a primary form of confrontation, but like the confrontation
where was this pick swop and this pick that won't
convey or have the ability to convey.
Speaker 2: For over a half decade.
Speaker 1: I think or I romanticize those picks when we're talking
about trades and teams that own them.
Speaker 2: But it actually does.
Speaker 1: Take you the word gall It does because it or
it's just like there is security here and you have
the latitude to take your time because there is that
if you're gonna make a trade, like you're giving up
an immediate ass especially a top a pick, I don't
care what raft it is, and you're going to like
like not just again the primary like the compensation was
this stuff that's not gonna come to Bayar unless you
move it for another half decade or so. Like I
think that is encouraging because it shows they're committed to
continuity and kind of just like remember this idea and
I don't think it By the way, I loved every
I advocated for them, going after every name that you
mentioned within reason, like I would have loved Larry marshat
on this team, but like, no, I don't want them
giving up the McHale Bridges special at this point to
get yeah market, But now I don't even remember what
I was saying before that, but yeah, so it seems
like they're, oh, the narrative that was being pushed about, well,
Victor wants to win so bad they're not going to
be able to wait that long. And it's just like
I thought that was like they were saying that before
he even took the court. And by they, I don't
even know who I'm talking at. I heard a lot
of it on ESPN, but they're just people like, yeah,
he's wired different, and it's okay, he's obviously included into
this stuff. It was never going to be a problem.
But I think this even underscores it's definitely not a problem.
Speaker 3: He definitely wants to win, so nobody's getting that wrong.
But I think people have a misunderstanding that it needs
to be right now and when Ben Yama is not
He's not stupid, right, I mean, he's a very smart kid,
and I think he understands and he has spoke about
it throughout the season several times, which is one of
the reasons that kind of frustrated me hearing that narrative
of oh, well, you know, he's gonna get tired of
losing and he needs to win out like, No, he
did talk about I want to win, I want to
win as soon as possible. I want to win championships.
But he also spoke several times, and this is the
thing that I don't feel like I ever heard from
any of the national talking heads that he understands it's
a process and that he, you know, quote trusts Greg
Popovich and the front office to get it done. So
I don't think there's any sense of urgency that it
needs to be done today. But I do believe there's
a sense of urgency that we'd like to get it
done sooner than later. But I still think, you look
at what they've done, they're making moves to get better
right now, even if it's not to win a championship
right now, but long term, long term, to have something sustainable,
and we talked about that. So I do believe, yes,
he wants to win, but I don't think he's It's
not like a situation where, oh, you know, if you
don't win this year, two, he's gone, He's he's running
out the door. I don't think that's a problem. And
I understand Spurs fans probably have a little bit of
PTSD from the Kawhi Leonard thing. We don't even have
to talk about that in depth in any way, shape
or form. But I think he's fine. I don't think
he's going anywhere. I don't think he's so unsettled that
you know, this isn't going to be a beautiful marriage
for a long time between the Spurs and Wimbin Yama.
Speaker 1: And there's also and we'll get into this later, but
it's just there's a chance that you don't just write
off because you got Harrison Barnes and Chris Paul and
steff On Castle's the main attractions. Vivid Rumnamer just might
be so good that the brush are still just like conversation.
So it's not a loss. I don't even want to
call lost, not necessarily.
Speaker 2: A rebuilding season.
Speaker 1: But I wanted to ask you this because I dictate
too much of how the order of events goes on
these podcasts. What is the single biggest storyline development whatever
that you will be monitoring with this team into next season.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I hate to do this because I think
Spurs fans are probably tired of me talking about Devin
Vessel a little bit. But I really want to see
does Devin Vessel have that next little bit in the
tank to make a jump to be something like a
Chris Middleton to Yannis Santetokombo, right, Like, does he have
that in him to be that caliber of player?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Obviously the Spurs would have to have a lot better
players around them to win a championship, But can he
be the equivalent of what Chris Middleton has been for Jiannis,
especially when they were competing and when they ultimately end
it won that twenty twenty one titles that the right
year Sometimes, I you know, forget the years off the
top of my head. But can he do that? Like,
does he have the you know, I guess, the skill,
the bandwidth to be able to make that next jump?
And I think he does. I think he might, but
it's yet to be seen, right, it's yet to be seen.
But I think he showed a lot of promising science
last season. I think he's somebody we're going to talk about.
But for me, that's what I'm monitoring because I think,
aside from Chris Paul really benefiting when Binyama and a
lot of the other shooters on this team, He's probably
gonna benefit, you know, Devin Vessel long term as well,
Like I think he can learn a lot from Chris Paul.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, let's talk about you know, I love
Devin Vessel. I thought he improved incrementally basically across the
board last year, and because it wasn't a monster leap
in any one area, it flew under the radar. I
thought the handle was better. We've talked about his defense
in the past. I thought that was better. I think
a part of that is Victor Wambayama exists, so that
just makes things yeah on everybody. And then just like
even if the efficiency was down in some areas, the
level of shots that he is capable of taking him
making now, like if you rewind back to his rookie season,
I don't know if I ever would have predicted that
he got to this point.
Speaker 2: And so I have two.
Speaker 1: Main questions on this, But I guess the first one is,
so if he's going to make that leap to we
call it Chris Middleton like status, but just like, oh
number two guy on a contender. What is it that
you're looking to see him improve upon or develop?
Speaker 2: What area most?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he's got to continue to get to
the rim more often. Like he upped his rim volume
last season, and he also significantly raised his filgal percentage
inside the paint and inside the restricted area, Like that
was huge, but the volume wasn't raised that much, right, Like,
he was getting there a little bit more and he
was way more efficient. Now can he get there a
lot more and maintain that efficiency? And then can he
get to the line a little bit more? Like, can
he get to the line a little bit more? Can
he leverage now getting to the rim more often to
create for his teammates a little bit more? Because he
did what I think he had like about three three
and a half assists per game last season. Most of
those were pretty rudimentary reads. It wasn't anything, you know,
too advanced. It was like he was hitting guys who
were you know, a man away, or he's hitting the
roller with you know, a pocket pass ocasionally. It wasn't
anything that you're like, Wow, this guy's really like capable
of carrying an offense for a long time. It was
more like, yeah, he can make the right pass when
that presents itself, and I think all of those things
kind of culminating together, Can that happen? That's I think
that's my big question. Can that happen? Because I think
that's what needs to happen for him to take that
next step in his progression to becoming that all star
caliber player who can be maybe a number two to
win min Yama.
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if just by organically proving the space
same because Victor Wimanyama is better, you have Harrison Barnes,
who's at least more of a threat from beyond the arc,
if that allows him to get to the rim more
because it feels like sometimes I just feel like he
bails out on his drives and might prefer the mid
range look, but other times it's just kind of like, well,
you look at the way the defenses are guarding the
spurs and that's why he gets rid of the ball.
Speaker 2: Like his I think his past percentage on drives was absurd.
Speaker 1: Last year was like forty percent or something ridiculous like that,
And so I'm just wondering if the floor being more open,
if that helps him get to the basket. But he
has always had that element of his game where it
does feel like his drives are just you know, when
he's on the ball, like it might stall out before
it has to, like he might settle before he needs to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I definitely think that he's limited in some way.
And I like the Chris Middleton compareson that I threw
out there. I'm not saying that's like a one for one.
They're definitely not the same player. But as far as
like biomechanically, they don't have a ton of wiggle, right,
they don't have a ton of bursts. They rely on pace,
change of pace. You know. A lot of their you know,
pull ups are like those one two dribble pull ups.
They're not really like East and West guys. They're north south.
And even in being north south, they're not truly like
blow by speed, right, that's not who they are. They're
gonna beat you being patient, They're gonna get to their spot,
They're going to create space with a couple dribbles, and
then they're gonna rise. So, like, I think that's definitely
a limiting factor for him, like that he's never i think,
going to be a better athlete than he is right now.
I mean he's not getting younger. Nobody else in the
league is getting younger, right like, so I think that's
a limiting factor for him, But I still don't think
that it is such a limiting factor that he can't
take another step. Like we've seen players who are not
necessarily the best athletes adjust, whether it's you know, adding
a little bit of muscle to their frame, you know,
being a little bit more patient, using a change of pace,
you know, ball fakes like I just want to see
can he do that. I'm not one hundred percent sure
I think he can, but again, it's yet to be
seen and we'll just have to wait till next season
when he's out in the court and potentially having better spacing.
Could that help him? Yeah, I think it could help him,
But in the same breath, I don't know that it's
going to be that much better. I think it really
depends on who's around him, who ends up being the starters, and.
Speaker 1: How do you think his role if at all, And
I'm assuming it will will change with Chris Paul in
San Antonio now because I think the burden on him
gets less and I think Chris Paul like did a
better job last year. Maybe getting off the ball like
more quickly than we're used to. But like relative to
Trey Jones and theory, if Chris Paul's running your offense,
he's a lot of times not going to get off
the ball as quickly as a trade Jones. And so
what does that maybe do to I don't want to
say like necessarily his usage rape, but the type of
usage we're gonna see from Devin Vasselle next season.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think maybe we'll see a lot more catch
and shoot opportunities for a guy like Devin vessel I
know they gave him a lot of freedom, like a
longer leash to be this guy who can create off
the dribble a little bit. And so even though I said,
you know, he's not really an East to West guy,
they definitely let him occasionally pound the air out of
the rock. I don't think we're gonna see that next
season so much. I think it is gonna be a
lot more of those okay catch if a guy's closing
out too hard, want to dribble pull up, like I
think we're gonna see a lot more of that out
of Devin vassell than like, hey, Dev, Like when Victor's
not the game with you, we're gonna ask you to
do a lot more Like I don't think he's gonna
be asked to do quite as much on ball creation
as he was a year ago. So I'm not one
hundred percent sure that's gonna be a case, but that
certainly feels like that's what's going to end up happening.
Especially you would have to assume Chris Paul's starting. He
already said like, I'm I didn't come to San Antonio
to just be a mentor and come off the bench,
Like we know, he's probably gonna be starting from day one.
Speaker 1: Look, he's already putting more pressure on them than Wemby
ever has. So it turns out vikr wenmi Yama is
pretty good at basketball.
Speaker 3: Who knew.
Speaker 1: We were very optimistic even coming off of his summer
league last year. But so let's start here. What stood
out the most or surprised you the most, or just
impressed you the most about what he did? Like the
single most thing that stood out to you during his
rookie season.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh, that's such a good question because it's a
hard question to answer. So I think for me, it
was not really hitting a rookie wall like it didn't
feel like he had a really long, extended period in
the middle of the season or towards the end of
the season where it was like, oh yeah, this guy's
running out of gas, or oh man, this guy needed
to sit for a bunch of games because his body
just wasn't used to the wear and tear like he
won his body. Like there were several times where it
looked like he rolled his ankle and then he just
like walked it off and was fine, and then basically
gave credit to the you know, phenomenal training staff that
he'd been working with going back to France where his
ankle flexibility has just been maximized, where those sort of
injuries aren't happening to guys like we saw with like
Yao Ming or even like the Shacks or Sean you know,
Bradley's of the world, guys that big and you know,
again Wemby's not as heavy as they are, but just
his durability and then the ability to not sort of
run into that wall right like he he maintained a
pretty good efficiency throughout the year, and even if you
look at the last ten games of the season, where
he probably should have been the most tired twenty six
twelve and five and a half stocks, like with five
assists per game too, Like, come on, like, that's pretty
impressive that he decided. Oh yeah, like he didn't decide,
but that he was capable of ending on such a
strong note and having really memorable performances when there was
really nothing to play for at that point in the season.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The thing that really stood out to me was so
they make him, they eventually make him the lone big
in December or whatever, and then he just shoots like
one of the most efficient off the dribble shooters, And
I was like, I didn't see.
Speaker 2: You could have convinced me anything.
Speaker 1: I probably would have doubted, Oh he'll finish second and
defensive player that year voting as a rookie. I would
have been skeptical, but I've been I believed it. If
you would have told me that he was gonna shoot
for a majority of the season, like thirty eight percent
on author dribble threes, I would have been like, yeah, okay,
and he is the type of player and you got
this vibe I think with Yannis, but not as early
because he wasn't playing as much. Where hyperbole doesn't feel
like it exists with him, Like you can tell me
anything right now that Victor wemben Yama will do. He's
in for his career, and I'm just gonna believe you
because like that's the type of player he feels like
to me. And now I'm just like I don't even
know what, like what does a Victor wemben Yama with
NBA experience look like?
Speaker 2: Now? Like I just don't I can't even fathom.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that I don't. I don't know, And
it does certainly feel like like Michael Jordan Wan says,
the ceiling is the roof, Like there's really no ceiling
for this guy, Like it just feels like he's capable
of doing anything. The one thing I would say if
we had if I'm not sure if we're going to
talk about this later, but if I could choose anything
that kind of like confused me and maybe he should
he should work on a little bit was the fact
that he shot like almost thirty eight thirty nine percent
on off the dribble threes like self created threes versus
like twenty seven percent on catch and shoot threes on
like a really high volume two. Like I'm still trying
to kind of work around that one. I think he's
maybe a little bit more in rhythm off the dribble
than he is just like off the catch. He's a
little stiff off the catch. But I'd love to see
him be able to maximize those catch and shoot looks,
because a lot of them he was like fairly open
on them. He just didn't knock him down.
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's because, I mean, not that dribbling
a tennis ball being easier, but for him it's got
to be like catching a tennis ball because of his
size and like trying to like gather that and shoot
it at the same time. Where I guess if it's
already kind of like in the palm of your hand,
is it easier.
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: I have no idea.
Speaker 1: The yeah, we all know the numbers by now, like
of when he played with Trey Jones the Spurs one
oh yeah, like six points per hundred posessions whatever it was.
What does and you mentioned this kind of at the top,
like what does it do for Wemby in the Spurs
that there is gonna be like even if you want
to say a full forty eight, because how many minutes
will Chris Paul play you have forty minutes at least
of just capable point guard play.
Speaker 2: Now, it's like what does that do for him? And
like what does that mean to this team?
Speaker 3: Oh, I think it's monumental. I think even for people.
And for some reason, there was a really strange contingent
of Spurs fans who were like Trey Jones haters who
were they were like, oh, well one ban Yama just
he continued improving throughout the season and like that's on,
you know he he looked that good because he was
playing with winm bin Yama. No, I think there was
a pretty strong correlation. The Dad'll say it, the film
would say it. And I think having two capable point
guards times is massive for winm bin Yama because I
think to a degree, people sort of were overblowing this,
Oh they can never find him, He's they're always missing
him on lobs. But like there is always some truth
in there, right, Like even if you're telling a joke,
like there is a truth in there, and there is
the truth that like Spurs players missed him occasionally, like
they missed him on lobs, they missed him in transition.
They weren't quite capable of making what felt like rather
elementary injury passes, whether it was like an entry bounce
pass or an entry lob like, it felt like a
lot of time those guys were not able to do that.
And with Trey Jones out there, with Chris Paul out there,
and now guys who before had never played with the
seven foot six guy and now they've got a full
season of that under their belt, that should improve immensely.
So I think it's gonna be huge for the Spurs
to have that point guard play, plus the added experience
in chemistry that comes with playing with women Yama for
a year for the other younger guys.
Speaker 2: What do you make.
Speaker 1: Also of the turnover situation with him? Is it a
product of just like learning?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: I mean like he had just a lot of lost
ball turnovers. I think he was fifth in lost ball turnovers.
He also he turned the ball over a ton in transition.
It was like eighteen percent of the time. I think
it's encouraging like when he was isoing, Like when he
would iso, there wasn't too many turnovers there. Is it
just like he's so tall that the ball has to
travel such a great distance. Is that kind of just
going to be like an inherent risk with him, or
do you see an ability for him to like and
forget about like the bad passes and stuff like that
comes with learning, I think, But just like the actual
loss ball turn ors.
Speaker 2: That came out of his handle, what do you make
of those?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and that's an area that I'd love
to see him and improve in as well. But I
think there's always going to be like a limited ceiling
on how good of a ball handler he can become,
just because the ball does have to travel so far,
he does have to get so low, and even like
a super wide crossover going between the legs or driving
into the lane, or with guys who are digging on
your drives, like you know, the ball is going to
be dislodged every once in a while. It's going to
be easier for guys to get to that ball. It's
going to be easier for guys to get under your dribble,
And I think that's just an inherent risk with letting
him dribble the ball more. And so like this may
sound strange, and I'm sure I'm going to catch some
flak from Spurs fans, but one of the things I've
always said with women Yama is like, he's probably not
a guy you want to give the ball and just
say go do this, go do that. Like, he's still
a guy who probably and at his best, is working
off of I is there guys create to him for
him to a certain degree, and a guy who like
catches and makes quick decisions. I don't really want to
see Wimby, you know, Like we talked about pounding the
air out of the ball like that. This is really
not something that I think is very productive. He doesn't
really have the strength to turn the corner on guys.
He doesn't have the handle to not have that ball
dislodged when he's tacking middle. So yeah, I just don't
think it's something that we should be worried about. But
it's definitely I think something that's always going to happen,
just as a product of his size and how often
he handles the ball.
Speaker 1: I do think what bodes well for him is that.
And my co host has said this a few times.
His name is Grant, just saying like he doesn't look
like someone who was shoehorned into playing basketball. He looks
like a basketball player who happens to be seven foot three. Yeah,
and so everything he does is so fluid that it
wouldn't shock me if, like, you know, I don't expect
to be the best ball handler of all time. And
look if you're telling me like I want Wemby back
at the perfect angle, like I don't want him too
low to the ground.
Speaker 2: Like bending over trying to make sure it doesn't comit turnovers.
Speaker 1: So I actually think for me personally, the zoomed off
he was like, I'm just not not that anyone should
be worried about it, but it just I would expect
it to like get better and better to the point
where I I don't even think we're talking about it
as like maybe like if you had to pick a
flaw of Victor Wimbanyama, like maybe it's that. I just
don't view it as something that maybe will repress his
ceiling or his usage in any way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think it's going to be like a
massive problem or anything like that. Like if I'm looking
long term, I still think there's a lot to uncover there,
Like I think he can tiden up the handle a
little bit, and I think he is very creative and
he's also vipodent. But yeah, I don't think it's going
to be a massive problem. But I do think it's
always going to be an issue to a degree because
I just don't know that you can be that tide
of a ball handler at that size. Like you know,
for as fluid as he is, he's still like pretty
stiff in the hips as far as like when you
watch him make dribble moves, like he's not really he
gets relatively low for someone that big, but like for
the average player, he's not really getting that low, you know,
you know what I mean. No, certainly not an issue
that I'm going like, oh man, I'm really worried about
that in a couple of years. No, I don't think so.
And I do think that there is room to improve,
and I do think he ultimately cut down all those turnovers.
But mostly I think the turnovers that he could work
on cutting down are just the you know, bad pass turnovers,
which I'm fine with him making bad passes right now.
It just means that he has a confidence to try things,
and I think they should give him that long leash
to try things. He's a generational prospect, like let's let's
let him see what he can do.
Speaker 1: Also, bad passes can be objected. I guess if you're
a fan, they could be not so much of that team,
but they could be objectively fun to watch, like just
as a laite pass and wherever you come in, like,
I'm just try shit, And so I'm with you.
Speaker 2: On yeh on that one.
Speaker 1: What did you think of taking Stefan Castle and what
do you make of his just overall fit with with
this team?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and and I don't mean to sound too like
down on the class, but I wasn't the you know,
I wasn't the biggest supporter of this class. I didn't
think it was super talented. So as long as they
didn't reach for someone like Tajan Saloon or one of
the other more raw prospects in the class, like as
they were taking somebody who I thought like could potentially
serve some sort of function from day one and also
have some ceiling down the line, like a Ron Holland
or Stefan Castle or Rob Dillingham. I was pretty much
fine with whoever they took. Stefan Castle was fifth on
my big board, so it wasn't like, oh they were
reaching I had Rob Dillingham four. I was a really
big Rob Dillingham guy. Just as someone who can be
a spark plug if you wanted Trey Young without you know,
trading for Trey Young. I'm not saying he is Trey Young.
I'm not saying he will ever be as good as
Trey Young, but certainly a guy who has the handle,
can pass a little bit, can create off the dribble
score from all three levels. You know who would be
really fun to watch in a woman? Yam a pick
and roll like, yeah, there was definitely you know a
little bit of me that went, oh man, I'd love
to see Rob Dillingham and Stefan Castle so like the
trade when they traded you know, Dillingham, immediately I was like, oh,
that's a bit of a bummer, but I get it.
Stefan Castle though not disappointed anyway. I think it's a
pick that makes sense, mostly because he's a guy who
a If they view him as a point guard, which
it appears they all, right, well, you can ease him
into the role behind Trey Jones, behind Chris Paul. You've
got two phenomenal role models there for him. He can
learn a lot from both of those players. But if
also the point guard thing doesn't work out, well, guess
what You've kind of got a Swiss Army knife player
who can be a secondary creator who it's a fantastic
screener as a guard, a guy who's an excellent cutter,
hard nosed defender, Like just one of those guys can
be a glue who doesn't necessarily fit into one one role,
who can kind of do it all. So I think
it's a phenomenal pick for the Spurs just because it's
hard for them to lose in any scenario. Now, I
do think there's a chance that he's probably not as
good as Spurs fans make him out to be. Right now.
He may struggle a little bit as a rookie, but
that's pretty normal, Like most players struggle as a rookie.
So if he struggles a bit, I'm not going to
be shocked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was torn on the pick. I felt way
better about it after they signed Chris Paul. That's just oh,
like Stefancastle is just going to be learning under Chris Paul.
I think the thing and I harp on this too
much with prospects, I like, what do you make of
like do you see anything or evidence that, oh, the
jumper will get better just because like he struggled.
Speaker 2: On making threes.
Speaker 1: Heven wasn't too efficient on catch and shoot threes, I
think while he was at Yukon, and so that's something
that's like the malleability defensively, that guy will defend wings
and he will do it well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's great for this team to have.
Speaker 1: But I'm just curious as to what he becomes as
like a like a floor space or as an actual shooter.
Speaker 3: He gives me some concerns in the same vein that
I'm concerned with Jeremy Sohan, where guys are legitimately fine
to just like leave him out there and go all
right shoot like they're daring him to shoot. They dared
him to shoot at Yukon. There were a lot of
times where teams dared him to shoot at Yukon and
then he still didn't shoot and just passed it up.
One of the things I liked at Summer League was like, Okay,
if you're gonna leave me open, I'm gonna shoot. If
you're gonna go under a screen, I'm gonna pull up
off the dribble, which are things we didn't really see
at Yukon. Playing for a championship contender at U and
the team that ultimately ended up winning the championship. Yeah,
they were never gonna just like let him do those
things at Yukon, Like he had to fit a role
at Yukon, so like we weren't gonna see those things.
But it was nice to see him have the confidence
to pull up off the dribble from three, to pull
up off the dribble from mid range, to try to
create for himself a bit. But I think ultimately, even
if you look at Summer League, which is pretty small
sample size to be fair to him, the three point
percentage wasn't good. The free throw percentage wasn't good, the
mid range jumper percentage wasn't good. Like, I don't think
he's gonna be a guy who comes in next seasons.
Oh wow, he's a lot better shooter than we thought.
I know, I don't think so. I don't think he's
a particularly good shooter right now. And at least, you know,
since Chip England left this team a couple of years ago,
I don't know that we've seen any like major evidence
that anybody who's joined the Spurs as a non shooter
has suddenly become a shooter. I think they've definitely made
a progress with Jeremy Sohan and not insult him too more,
but like you started from a really really low bar,
So even if you started from that low bar, you
were always going to make some sort of progress. Like
he was not always going to be like a seventeen
percent three point shooter, right that was you know, like
he there was nowhere to go butt up. So I'm
hoping that we see progress from other guys who've been
on this team that can kind of say, hey, you know,
Jimmy Barron, who's the new shooting coach there since you know,
uh England left town. Like he's making real progress and
he's having impact on these guys and hopefully that can
continue to Stefan Castle. But for now, I don't think
we've really seen that. And that's you know again, that's
no shade towards Jimmy Barron. It takes a while with
these sort of things, but it definitely makes me wonder,
like what is he going to look like in a
couple of years and is that something that will really improve?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also just off rip, he feels like one
of the and you said you clearly dug deeper into
the draft than I did. It feels like he was
one of the prospects that had the wider variants in
like comps. Whereas I saw him compared to everyone from
Bruce Brown to our Ga, I saw some shake Gil
just Alexander light stuff out there.
Speaker 2: I'm like, those are all just like very different players.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's all over the place, And like
we talked about that, you know, if at his peak
and it all works out as a point guard, I
think it's because he's able to at the very least
have found a mid range game, and that he's shown
that his handle is tight enough and he's got that
sort of grasp of change of pace and able to
snake pick and rolls and make live drivel passes, you know,
whether that's like a skip to the corner or a
pocket pass to the big who's rolling to the basket,
Like we saw that at Summer League. He looked really
good as a point guard, as a facilitator in small
spurts there. But in that same breath, if he never
is able to shoot, and guys in the NBA are like,
I'm going under every screen, I'm gonna leave you open
every time. Is there a role where he's no longer
like you can't really roll him out there as a
point guard, and he more becomes sort of this lonzo
ball player who is more of a connector piece than
a guy who brings the ball up the court every
single time. Could he just be a connector who who
you know, is a great cutter, who is a phenomenal
defender on the other side of the ball. Sure, Like
I think that's also a fantastic outcome, But I think
there's a wide range of outcomes for him that really
depend on where he gets to as a jump.
Speaker 1: Shooter and what type of role would you expect him
to have, Like is this someone that they're going to
give like serious floor time too?
Speaker 2: If not out of the gate, like as the season
goes on.
Speaker 3: I expect him to play from day one. I think
he's going to be a guy who's coming off the
bench fifteen to twenty minutes. Like kind of the same
way that I saw Devin Vasselle, where people were like, oh,
every player who's come through San Antonio went to the
G League and they don't see any action as a rookie.
And when the Spurs draft of Devin Vesselle, I told people,
I was like, he's probably not going to spend a
lot of time in the G League. I think he's
ready to play a small NBA role, even if it's
like fifteen to twentyish minutes a night. And I see
Stefan Castle in the same sort of like mold as
a Devin Vesselle. Is a guy who has some NBA
ready skills, who will probably be shifted a little bit
off ball so that he's not running an offense and
he's more of just a connector he's eased into a role.
I think that that makes sense, And like I hate
to say that, it's probably gonna come at the expensive
guys like Blake Wesley or Malachi Branum, but you know,
it's year three for them, and I don't think either
of them really showed enough that you go, oh, yeah,
you get minutes year three, Like, no, you're gonna have
to beat out Stefan Castle in training camp for those minutes.
And just as it stands right now, I think Stefan
Castle is a better defender than they are. I think
he's a better processor than they are, and I think
he's a guy who just in general is got these
intangibles that lend themselves towards winning, whereas Malachi Branum Blake
Wesley there's still very much like developmental projects who haven't
really proven anything in any substantive way. For a team
that has lost, you know, sixty plus games back to
back seasons, it's hard to trust in them.
Speaker 1: So it turns out Jeremy Sohan isn't a point guard
that's val What do you sort of he does other
stuff though, like the paint pressure and rim pressure. I think,
especially within the offensive eco system that the Spurs have,
like some of the stuff he does it is very good.
But what do you kind of see and we know
what he can do defensively network like we have the
bones of what this player can look like on defense.
What is like the you're looking at this team, like
what do you view as his role and fit? And
like what is your goal for Jeremy Shan leading into
year three?
Speaker 3: Well? I do not know. I wish I had a
really solid answer for you, and I think Spurs fans
will still be upset at me for this, But I
don't know that I could look you in the eye
and tell you like, oh, I promise you Jeremy Sohan
will be like a really important part of this team
in three four years, Like we've already they just drafted
another guy who can't shoot the ball. Trey Jones can't
really shoot the ball that well. Zach Collins can't really
shoot the ball that well. Keldon Johnson is incredibly erratic
as a shooter. Julian Champainne is also incredibly erratic as
a shooter. Blake Wesley can't shoot the ball. Malachi Branham
is another guy who's very erratic as a shooter. Devin
Vessel is probably their best shooter on the team, right
with Harrison Barnes. So like, I see him as one
of those guys that, like, I love him and I
think he could be really good down the line. But
what does he do for you as a floor spacer
if there's other guys who can't space the floor, Like,
how do you fit him into there? And I think
a lot of his defense, he has some really nice moments.
I would still categorize him more as an agitator than
a lockdown defender, Like his numbers are fine defensively, like
his defensive field goal percentage is okay. I think he
takes on a lot of hard assignments because there was
nobody else to do, so. I think he did a
really good job against bigger wings, against guys who are
a little bit stronger, maybe not like the most bursty athletes.
He had a really good a couple of showings against
guys like Kawhi Leonard, against guys like Devin Booker, against
someone like Lebron James, but against smaller, shiftier guards, against
faster guys, he wasn't particularly good. He's not quite big
enough to guard centers or bigger forwards. I don't you know,
we talked about he's not a point guard. I don't
really see him in that and people, I think a
lot of sports fans want to compare him to Raymond Green.
Draymond Green is an all time processor. He's an all
time playmaker as a short role passer, as a guy
who can be a dribble handoff hub. Jeremy Sohan hasn't
shown that he can make a good pass every once
in a while, but in the same sort of breath
that we talked about Devin Vessel, where he's mostly a
guy who's making passes from a man away. That's how
I see Jeremy Sohan. So I don't really know how
he fits in here. Long term. I think his best
bet to being here long. The Spurs organization loves him
and fans love him. I think he's got to become
a league average shooter as a catch and shoot guy,
because he's not a guy who's going to be a
pull up scorer. He's not pulling up from three, he's
not pulling up from mid range. His fill goal percentage
on drives was abysmal. He shot forty nine percent on
drives last season. He was in the lower percentage as
a guy who passes out of drives, Like his assist
percentage out of drives was really low. A lot of
his drives stall out because he's so stiff and he
doesn't have the wiggle off. The drug creat an advantage
for any so it's all driving. I'm cut off, I'm
kicking it out. But his kickouts aren't advantage creating. They're
just resetting the offense. It's going back to square one.
So I don't know. I wish I had better things
to say about Jeremy so Han, but for me at least,
the verdict is still out on whether he's really like
a long term starter on this team or what is
he exactly long term? Especially with Stefan Castle in the
picture of Stefan Castle doesn't end up being a point guard.
And you got two guys who are like pretty similar
as far as like being a Swiss army knife kind
of player. But I think Stefan Castle is a better processor.
I think he's a better passer. I think he's a
more versatile defender. So I hate to say all that
stuff about Jeremy Sohan because I think he's an all
time competitor. I think his motor runs super hot. I
don't think you'll find you know two or three players
who have a higher motor than Jeremy Sohan. But you know,
if I were to ask you right now, what does
he do really, really, really well. I don't know that
there's a lot of things you could list off for me,
at least anybody who's been watching the Spurs this last
couple of seasons.
Speaker 1: I'd be super intrigued as to how much more valuable
his defense but comes with Stefan Castle in the picture.
But those are also two players as of right now
that you probably can't play together a ton of myths.
Speaker 3: They can't shoot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I would be interested to see, like more
of you mentioned Draymond Green.
Speaker 2: I don't see that in Jeremy so In either.
Speaker 1: But to give him like more of those touches like
coming out of screens and trying to get him going
downhill that way, does that change anything? But even you
mentioned like that doesn't He's not necessarily gonna have that
burst like Draymond Green has like those like hot feet
sometimes and you don't see that as much from Jeremy
so Han, But it might be worth a shot if
you're looking for a long term role on this team.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I think one of the things that I
try not to like be too critical because it has
been like a developmental sort of last couple of years,
but I think one of the things that has been
sort of a disservice to Jeremy Sohen is that they
haven't used him really at all in any meaningful capacity
as a short role passer, like as a role man.
He's not really like setting screens and then rolling to
the basket. I think I would have loved to see
him gain those opportunities when the men didn't. And now
the minutes of starting to ma or more so, you
can't just all right, like so hand, let's let's figure
out if you're a good short role passer, now let's like,
let's make you a playmaking hub. It's kind of hard
to you. Now you've got other guys like Chris Paul's
gonna want his touches, Devin Vessell's important to the team,
when Ben Yama's integral to the team, Chris Paul's again
like Chris Paul's probably gonna be the guy who has
the ball in his hands the most. All right, Stefan Castle,
we want to see what you can do, but we
don't want to throw you in the G League. Probably
all right, Well, who's going to get those opportunities? Who's
gonna be able to have the ball in their hair?
Or we know he's not a point guard. I just
I have questions about Sohan. I don't have questions about
his character. I don't have questions about his motor. I
don't have questions about his work ethic. I just have
questions about developmentally, where does he go from here that
makes him a fit long term? That's that's my only question.
Speaker 1: Speaking of players we've had questions about in their fit
long term.
Speaker 2: Kelvin Johnson's still on this team. Honestly impressive when you
just consider.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think when we were talking last year, I
probably would have guessed that Kelvin Johnson wouldn't have been
on this team by this time this season.
Speaker 2: But so, what do you like, what do you viewing
closer to like the ideal role now that they've kind
of expanded their depth a little bit, or just like,
what is the hope or expectation for him on this
Spurs roster.
Speaker 3: I will say, even though I think Keldon Johnson is
a guy who I could potentially see them getting something
for and maybe moving off of, I think he's had
the hardest job of anybody on the Spurs. I'll give
him three seasons because it's just constantly changed from being
like that primary score before women Yama got here, to
being like the third guy with Dejonte and DeMar to
now coming off the bench last year with Wimbin Yama
and having to Devin Vessel take more touches, to Okay,
we want you to run some pick and roll at
the beginning of seasons and really see what we can
get out of you there, to now you're mostly off ball,
to like he's just done so many things and he
hasn't had a consistent role or a consistent place in
the rotation that I feel like he's been almost given
the short end of the stick. I would like to
see him just have a concernsistant role off the bench.
You're number one guy as far as like go to
score off the bench. I I just want to see
him have some consistency because although I don't think he's
a particularly good defender, he's got heavy feet and he's
not like the biggest, quickest guy, and I don't think
he's the most consistent shooter. I think he's been put
in a tough position. I think consistency for him would
go a long way to helping him build consistency on
the court, if that makes sense. So I just him
have something that he can hang on to for an
entire season and we go, okay, that's what he is.
I don't think we've really gotten that from him yet,
and he hasn't been afforded that opportunity yet.
Speaker 2: I don't think I am. I do find him maybe more.
Speaker 1: I don't know if the word is valuable or interesting
on the current iteration of the spurs, where I do
think even with Castle and Sohan, it feels easier to
because the victim womyam's going to shoot like he did
and maybe improve his catch and shoot percentage.
Speaker 2: It's easier to open up the floor.
Speaker 1: And so you have those sort of bull in a
China shot drives from Keldon Johnson. Maybe take on more
meeting if he's reacting quickly off the catcher, maybe just
his own three point percentage go up because of how
much better point guard play there is across forty eight minutes.
Because he's also just like anecdotally, he feels like first
team all shoots worse than you think he does from
three point range. Go back and look at it's like, oh,
he hasn't shot even thirty five percent each are the
passage and he was below thirty three percent, not last season,
but the season before.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you always I always walk away thinking like, oh, yeah,
Keldon Johnson's a good shooter. But then I have to
remind myself, like, well, you're right, like the percentages haven't
been very good like any of the last three seasons.
But I also think, you know, the team has been bad,
the context has been bad. I try to give the
benefit of the doubt to these guys, and like, I
know I come off as a Keldon Johnson haters sometimes
and I'm not. I have the utmost respect for him.
He's another one of those guys who high effort, high character,
great work ethic, always in the gym, great part of
the community. Like I just again, I'd love to see
him have role, have better players around him so that
things are more defined for him and he can just
go out there and know what to expect and what's
expected of him every single night and until we get that.
I don't want to pass too hard of a judgment
on him, but I would love him to just be
able to knock down the three ball, attack closeouts. I
think simplifying his role is the best thing that they
can do for him. I don't want necessarily want to
see him with the ball in his hands. I don't
need to see him running pick and rolls. I don't
even necessarily want to see him have any secondary creation opportunities.
Just simplify the role. Get to the basket off of closeouts,
shoot the three ball if you're open, run hard in transition,
and like you know, defend your ass off if you can.
Because he's not a great defender, but he puts the
effort in like it's not that he's not trying. He
just I don't know that he has the physical tools
to get it done.
Speaker 1: He's he's super malleable on defense to where it's like
you can throw him in a bunch of different situations.
But it's just like it never like that versatility just
never like lines up to this massive impact where sometimes
we complate versatility with impact. But I think the versatility
is important. So I mean, like, they have a bunch
of interesting defenders on this team. Now there could be
lineups where he's like their fourth most important defender, and
that's like a really good spot to have Keldon Johnson.
Speaker 3: And probably probably I also would say I don't think
Keldon Johnson's I would actually probably go as far to
say he's a pretty bad defender, Like he ballwatcher, laid
on rotations, doesn't always communicate like heavy feet on ball,
like he's too heavy to be guarding guards, but he's
also too small to guard forwards. Like he's in a
really tough spot that if you watch him every night,
you're like, man, he does a couple of things every
night that are like year three or four or five,
really probably shouldn't be doing those things anymore, Like you're
a leader. You've been here, you know what's expected of you,
at least defensively. I haven't seen a lot of improvement
defensively from him. They certainly use him as though he
is versatile. He gets to match up against guards. He
sometimes matches up against Ford. Sometimes he's on ball handling wings.
But rarely do I walk away from a game going man.
He was really effective, like that, that dude did something tonight.
Most of the time it's like, ah, that was rough. Uh,
that was tough. And occasionally there's like one or two
flashes throughout the night. We're like high effort play. I
love that. I love seeing he put in the extra
effort he was on the floor, you know, like. I
love that, But I'd love to see him be impactful,
like and I don't feel like he's an impactful defender.
I don't think the numbers say that either.
Speaker 1: You mentioned CP three before said he's not here to
mentor anyone. What I find interesting is, so you look
at the number he signed for, it's less than the
non tax payer mid level, which means.
Speaker 2: In theory, if he were to be bought out or waves, he.
Speaker 1: Could sign with anybody that he wants do you view
this as some sort of like tacit agreement that if
the Spurs are out of the play in Running by
the time the trade deadline rulls around, that they would
look at moving him, or maybe he would broke or
buy out later on, or do you view this as
like CP three can say whatever he wants, but like
this was very much like he came here eyes wide open,
this is the play with Wemby, and he will be
to some degree like a mentor here.
Speaker 3: I think so, And like I just want to want
to clarify he said he wasn't here to just be mentor,
Like he's here to be a mentor to these players,
but he didn't just sign up for a mentor role,
like he fully intends to start. He wants to play
in every game. He wants to play heavy minutes, Like
he didn't come here just to be a mentor. And
so I do think like a lot of that is one.
He also talked about wanting to prove in the press conference,
wanting to prove that he's still a starter in a
high level, you know player in this league. And I
just have a hard time seeing anybody even no matter
how well things realistically go for the Spurs, then looking
at Chris Paul and going Yep, this is a guy
who can be a starter for the next two three years.
I still think people will view him as this is
sort of wells for whinmbin Yama and he did a
good job or he did an okay job. I just
don't see a reality in which a team is at
the buyout market if the Spurs do buy him out,
or like, yeah, this guy's a starter. I think the
Spurs are his best avenue to being a starter like
he wants to be and playing heavy minutes like he
supposedly wants here. So it could happen. I think it
could also happen with a guy like Harrison Barnes, but
I think more than likely they're probably on this team
for the long haul unless it really goes south and
they just want to be sellers and get whatever they
can for those guys.
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about some of the
tertiary players on this ross that you've already kind of mentioned,
just to hear your updated thoughts on their game their roles.
Speaker 2: Let's start with Malachi Brandum.
Speaker 1: Rip to that pushot percentage from the previous year, it
dipped a little bit last year, but yeah, so where you're.
Speaker 3: At with him. I don't know what to make of
Malachi Brandam's future in San Antonio, just because it doesn't
seem like San Antonio is all that invested in him
being here long term. I think it's been the same mistakes.
You know, low effort defensively, making the same mistakes defensively.
He's still passing on three pointers. When he's shooting threes,
it's not at a high percentage. That push shot went
way down as you're talking about like the floaters, the runners,
Like the percentage on those are way way way down.
He's okay as like a secondary ball handler who can
handle a little bit of creation responsibilities. But like there's
really nothing that sets him apart from any of the
other young guys that makes you go, yeah, he needs
to be here, or he should be here, he should
be given extra opportunities. Like I just look at him
as okay, Well, like this is probably like do or
die for him this season if he's not good again,
Like no, not to be rude to him, but like
if he's not good again for a third straight season,
it's probably it. Like I don't think San Antonio is
gonna be you know, itching to get him back here
for another season or make him a long term part
of their you know, puzzle around Wimbinyama. Blake Wesley, Blake Wesley,
I do think a little bit differently. He is a
guy who drastically improved his rim finishing percentages last season.
That was one of the biggest deals for him heading
into the NBA at Notre Dame. He was awful around
the rim his rookie season. He was awful around the rim.
He's cut down on the turnovers. He has increased his
assist percentage. His three point percentage was a lot better
in the G League. Didn't shoot very well in the
NBA last season, but you can start to see like
some semblance of a catch and shoot three where like
in the G League last year, he shot almost forty
percent on more than four attempts per game in the
G League and it was like twenty games, so it
was like a decent sample size. Just wasn't quite shooting
at that level in the NBA. I don't know if
it was confidence, maybe he didn't have the green light
to shoot, but I definitely think that there's the outline
of a player who can be a guy who comes
off the bench and is just a pest at the
point of attack, like this dude. He was giving fits
to LaMelo Ball, he was bothering Tray Young, he was
forcing you know, eight second violations coming out of the backcourt.
Like he's a guy who'll defend you the full ninety
four feet Like, yeah, I think there's a chance that
if he can make these small improvements this year, just
become like a decent catch and shoot guy, someone who
can make less and less mistakes off of his drives
and create for other guys. Like that's a guy who
can be in your rotation. So I do have a
lot more hope for Blake Wesley, but I will say
I think his hopes have been dashed little bit by
adding someone like you know, Stefan Castle with the fourth pick,
just because that's a much bigger investment than putting minutes
into a guy who you took twenty fifth, I think,
and I think that makes more sense for the Spurs
to invest in Stefan Castle in that way.
Speaker 1: Uh cdko who is probably gonna replace Dominic Barlow as
like my my Spurs like pet like pet Oh, I
love this guy project.
Speaker 3: I know, and and good luck to Dominic Barlow Man.
I hated to see him go, but I think he's
gonna have some decent opportunities in Atlanta City. So Sosoco
another one of those guys that man, if he could shoot, man,
we're talking about a different player, but again another one
of those guys can't shoot a lot of turnovers. Definitely
has this sort of like new age Boris dial sort
of feel to him. Really creative passer, a guy who
gets downhill, big body, about six or eight runs in transition,
tries to dunk everything, which is very much unlike Boris Diao,
who was pretty much glued to the ground. But you
see it in the defensive versatility. You see it in
the like the creativity and the passing flashes from him
in the half court as a connector. Like, I think
he is a guy who, again, if he can learn
to be a decent standstill shooter, and I think shooting
is really a big swing skill for so many of
these guys on this roster. He may have a spot,
but I think until he can shoot even at a
respectable clip, I'll even give him thirty two to thirty
three percent from three on a couple of attempts per game.
Teams will be willing to leave him open, and I
don't think the Spurs can afford to shrink the floor,
and I don't think they can afford to rework their
rotations in a way where he's not playing with other
guys who can't shoot the ball. There's just so many
of them right now who either can't shoot or they're
erratic shooting, and that I just don't know that you
can really squeeze him in the rotation. But I love
what I saw him from him at the end of
this last season, like so fun, and Papovitch had a
lot of great things to say about him at Summer League.
So we'll see. Maybe he ends up surprising everybody, maybe
as a great you know uh training camp and he's
in the rotation. I would love nothing more than to
see him in there, because he's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: I promise I'm not forgetting about Mamu to anyone who's listening.
But the big Man rotation beyond Webbin Yama fascinates me
a little bit. When you're looking at the secondary minutes,
do you think that they're gonna default? Like, is it
just we have to default to Zach Collins because we
paid him, or is there a chance for them to
experiment get weird and would you expect him even try that?
Or again, are we just defaulting to, like know, Zach
Collins is going to soak up those minutes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's probably gonna be a default Zachins.
They're paying him a lot of money at the very least,
if he can prove that he's better than he was
a year ago. Maybe he needed more time to recover
from you know, he's constantly a guy who's constantly injured.
Maybe they can recoup some value from him at the
trade deadline or something like that. But I think unless
he's truly horrific, we're probably gonna see a lot of
Zach Collins now. I would say Charles Bassi and Mamu.
If they do move on from Collins, or they decide Okay,
we've seen enough of Collins it's not working out, I
would probably lean towards Mamu. I'm a big Mamu fan.
He's another guy, really creative passer, can handle the ball
at almost seven feet tall in theory, another guy who
can shoot but is very erratic shooting, good cutter, runs
hard in transition. Not a great defender, but really interesting
numbers next to Wimbinyama. Last season, I think they only
played like one hundred and twenty seven minutes, so take
it with a grain of salt, but they had about
eleven net rating together when they were on the court,
like a positive eleven net rating. So they were a
fun combination to see him kind of slide to the
five and when Binyama got to play the four for
some minutes, and then you had like Mamu as the
playmaking hub and Wimby was occasionally coming off a dribble,
handoffs or high low actions like it was a lot
of fun to see them play together. So if I
had to like throw a guy out there that I
do want to see play with wimbin Yama a little
bit more next season, it's definitely Mamu. I mean I
really like him, but again, you know, can can he
shoot consistently? Can he knock it down at a respectable rate?
Yet to be seen.
Speaker 1: They're a team that they replaced the Thunder as my
favorite theoretical, like, let's just take a flyer on Robert
Williams of the third as our backup big because I.
Speaker 2: Still think he's not going to space the floor.
Speaker 1: I know you're talking about four spacing, so I'm not
talking about playing him next to win Minyama necessarily, but
his passing out of roles on the stuff that he
can do defensively. You talk about being able to hang
on the perimeter even when he gets injured, comes back
and just able to do all the same stuff. It's
just can he be healthy? So I would like to
see them because I'm not a Zach Collins guy anymore.
I kind of used to be like the theory of him,
but I was kind of right, it's not happening.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's gonna happen. So I would like
to see them make that's a weird. That's a dumb
ass thing.
Speaker 1: To focus on, I know it, But I don't want
to see them get weird with their own roster at
that those big man minutes, whether they want to call
it beside Wenby or just like the secondary minutes behind him,
I want to see them either upgrade them or just
get weird with them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I agree. I mean as much as this
is not like one hundred percent a rebuilding year, and
it's definitely a year where they want to be a
little bit more competitive. I still think you have the
leeway to be a little bit experiment not working out
with Zach Collins, and Zach Collins still isn't knocking down
the three ball, and Zach Collins is still getting eaten
alive in the pick and roll. Though I will say
to a degree, not one hundred percent his fault like
guards have to be a little bit better coming off
of screens, not getting stuck on screens. But if he
is truly a disaster and you don't feel like it's going, well,
try something else. That's I'm fine with that. Try something else,
because you've got a lot of guys who are at
the very least like fringe NBA players, who are just
waiting for that opportunity to maybe prove that they do
belong at the end of a rotation. Guys like Bassie,
guys like Mamu, guys like City Sosoko. You know, I'd
love to see them get minutes and get weird with lineups.
Maybe you play lineups that are you know, maybe there's
small ball lineups, but they're still bigger than what you
would think. Like City is not a sinner, but like
he's a big guy who can handle the ball, Like
just get get creative if things aren't working out. And
I think that's kind of what I liked at the
end of last season, is that we saw lineups with
like City and Mamu and when Benyama and you also
had Blake Wesley out there, Like it was just they
were weird lineups that they still were like, well, we're
gonna try it, or like Davonte Graham was out there too,
alongside Tray Jones. It's like, never in your wildest dream
would you really expect the Spurs to be rolling out
two really small guards next to each other. But they
were like, hey, you know, it's the end of the season,
let's do it. Like yeah, I'm fine with them getting
weird because at the very least it'll be entertaining and
maybe you learn something along the way.
Speaker 2: Are you ready for the cookie cutter portion of these podcasts?
Speaker 3: Absolutely, let's start positive.
Speaker 1: Is they are like an underrated strength that's just flying
under the radar about this team in your opinion.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to say it's probably their defensive versatility.
I think you look at guys like Wimbin Yama of
a Cell even you know, Keldon in theory is versatile,
Jeremy Sohan, Trey Jones, Champagne Castle, Barnes, I mean we could, Yeah,
we could continue listing things to Soco Bassie to a
degree though he's mostly just like a traditional drop coverage
big Like, I think their defensive versatility in theory could
be really fun and I think that could be something
that they could really hang their hat on, because offensively
we talked about, well, you know, the spacing is probably
still going to be an issue, but defensively with women
Yama in year two, adding a guy like Stefan Castle,
who you know, can guard wings, can guard guards, having Sohan,
having a guy like Champagnee too, Like, you could have
a lot of different defensive lineups. Stat and theory are
really hard to break through. Like even if you were
like forcing them to switch, doesn't matter. All these guys
are switchable, Like I think the more underrated parts roster. Now,
whether those guys end up playing together will see, but
I think there could be a lot of switchability on
this roster.
Speaker 1: It'd be really funny if they're just trying to like
preserve Victor Wombenyama's defensive player of the year case, So
they're literally trying to make sure that they're because there's
like anecdotally, people want their defensive player to year to
come from a team that's like top ten or better defensively,
and so's we're just gonna roll out these line are
going to do shit offensively, but to the point in
the season, we're just gonna make sure that we keep
our defensive rating good enough to get wemby his one
of his many dpo wis that just feel inevitable at
this point, And I'm not.
Speaker 3: Gonna lie to you. I kind of expect and maybe
it's too much for me expect this, but I kind
of expect him to win Defensive Player of the Year
in year two. Like I don't think you go anywhere
but up from here, and you finished second as a
rookie even though the team was not very good. I
think you still could have made a very real case
for him being Defensive Player of the Year last year.
So I think with improvements, it's gonna be hard to
I think, stop when Binyama from winning Defensive Player of
the Year in year two, which is an insane thing
for me to be saying, even as I'm thinking about
saying it.
Speaker 1: Not though that's again Wemby has just absolutely nuked to
the concept of hyperbole, and I think he will. I mean,
this roster, I agree with you that it could be
better than expected defensively, that maybe what people might be
penciling them in for.
Speaker 2: But if they're not.
Speaker 1: Victor Wembernyama, I think will be prepared to test the
whole Like can we finally get into like why is
Wenby responsible for the minutes that he's not on the floor,
like when we try and shehell all these arguments like
a lot of people don't want to talk about the
on off stuff and it's well, if they were like
an eightieth percentile defensively with him on the court.
Speaker 2: Last season or whatever, it ended up being super high,
Like that should Matt like why isn't his fault? What's
happening when he's not on the floor.
Speaker 1: So that might be he might be the player that
forces us to take a longer look at that that process.
What's if you're looking at this roster right now, what
is your biggest need or concern for it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think we've talked about it at
nauseum a bit, but shooting it really is just.
Speaker 2: With the cash I could shoot, He'd be excellent.
Speaker 3: Exactly and even like to a degree like Wimbin Yama
awesome as a as a pull up three point shooter
off the dribble, but like you know, the the catch
and shoot numbers were pretty abysmal last year. Does he
improve in that fast set? Does Kelton Johnson become a
better shooter? Does so him become a better shooter? Does
Trey Jones finally become a league average shooter? Does that Collins?
Come back to this guy who we thought could at
least be a stretch big? Is Julian Champagne a guy
who shoots more consistently? Can Stefan Castle shoot? You know,
there's a few guys on this roster who I look
at and I go, you can shoot. That's Devin Vessel,
That's Harrison Barnes, and I think to a degree maybe
Julian Champinny every someone else I have very serious questions about,
including Mamu, including Wesley, including you know, Brandam and Sissoko.
Like it just the list to me goes on and
on about like can they shoot and if they can't,
what does this look like? Because it didn't look great
last year when they couldn't shoot, and if they can't
shoot again this year, because it is largely the same
roster that they had last year with a few additions,
what does it look like? So that's my biggest concern
is the spacing.
Speaker 1: What is the concern with Julian CHAMPENNI shooting from you
that you've mentioned it.
Speaker 2: Just a couple of times.
Speaker 1: I was just because he shot like what was he
like thirty six percent from the corners or whatever it was, and.
Speaker 3: That's incredibly erratic. He had stretches where he would shoot
like fifty six percent for like twelve games and you'd
be like, oh my god, like, this guy he can't miss.
And some of these are like hand in a face,
no breathing room, and he's still knocking it down, and
he's knocking down like three four in a game and
you're like, okay, it's been like four straight games and
this guy can't miss. And then it'll be like ten
games where he's like one of sixteen from three and
you're like, okay, well, when he's not making a three,
what does he do? Like he's not great at finishing
at the Rammy, he's not great at attacking closeouts. He
doesn't create for anyone else. He's not the most timely
cutter or like instinctual cutter. He's not effective in transition.
He's just a guy who can hit passes from one
man away. So like, if he's not knocking down three,
he's what does he do? So that's the concern for
me with his three ball. Its like the defense. I
really think he's a great defender. I think he's a
really a much better defender than a lot of people
probably even realize. But if you're a three and D guy,
but like the three part of your three and D
is only there fifty percent of the time, forty percent
of the time, you're basically Andre Roberson. And I don't
not to you know, not to throw shade to Andre Roberson,
but you're not You're not really doing much out there
at that point.
Speaker 2: So, oh, I was not expected expect that from talking
to you.
Speaker 1: If you're looking at and I know the rotation might
be different, but at full strength, if they had to
play ten guys. From talking to you, it sounds like
there are nine locks.
Speaker 2: And so you could correct me if I'm wrong on
any of these.
Speaker 1: Chris Paul, Devin Vessel Jeremy Sohen Harrison Barnes, Victor Weber, Yama,
Trey Jones, Zach Collins, Keldon Johnson, and Stefan Castle.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's fairly accurate. I would probably add
Julian Champinne in there because he was mostly a starter
last year, and whether we want to argue it was
out of necessity, I think Pop really loved and he
talked about it throughout last season. One of the reasons
that Julian Champagne is in there low usage guy, catch
and shoot guy, a little bit of a movement shooter,
understands his role. He's not going to ever try to
do too much, Like he's never going to dribble the
ball too much. He's not going to make a bad pass.
He's not a guy who is going to make mistakes defensively.
So if I had to add like one more guy
in there, it's probably Julian Champinne. I think he's probably
got mints until someone else from him. But you know, poor,
no go for it.
Speaker 1: If you had to pick like a breakthrough candidate of
the like to come in and party that top ten
list of the players that we didn't mention, who would
you is in Blake Wesley, he seem to be pretty.
Speaker 3: Much I think it might be, Yeah, it might be
Blake Wesley. I think Blake Wesley has a good chance
to do that, and for us, not as low as
I can be on Malachi Brandam, sometimes I think he
has a decent chance. Like when I watch him out there,
the defense is not something I think is ever going
to be like a calling card for him. But if
he can be someone who knocks down that floater at
a good clip, can get back to knocking down the
mid range jumper at a good clip, and then can
just knock down those catch and shoot threes like we
saw at Ohio State. Like at Ohio State, this was
a guy who was shooting forty plus percent on catch
and shoot threes on about three or four attempts a night. Like,
if he can get back to that, that's a useful
player in a rotation. That's a guy who's useful regardless
of how ineffective he can be defensively. That's still someone
who has a spot in a rotation at the end
of a rotation. But you know, again, if he can't shoot,
then you know, well then he's not that useful. But definitely.
I would say if someone broke in, it would probably
be Blake Wesley, and that's who I would be betting
on to break into the rotation if there was somebody.
Speaker 1: This is to some extent matchup dependent, but if you
had to pick right now what ends up being their
most leaned upon crunch time unit, who would you go with?
Speaker 3: Probably mostly their starting lineup, so Chris Paul Devn Vessel, Harrison, Barnes,
Jeremy Sohan, Victor wimbin Yama. I think at times, depending
on what you need, like if you need a three,
if you're you know, whatever, maybe substitute so Hand for
Keldon or Barnes for Kelden. Maybe Kelden's having a hot
night and you have to have him in there, whereas Harrison,
maybe he's not having such a hot night, and maybe
Harrison slows down a bit defensively, because we have seen
in the last couple of years, like Harrison Barn's fantastic
player as far as like a role player goes, but
he's been slowing down a bit year after year the
last couple of years. So I wouldn't be surprised if,
you know, Keldon Johnson ends up breaking into that, you know,
closing lineup, so to speak.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Harrison Barnes experience for Kings fans last year
has them excited about DeMar De Rosen's defense, which I
think goes in your nine bridges too far, but I
understand how frustrating he is. Is there a funky, weird,
offbeat lineup you would like to see them try this season?
Speaker 2: Doesn't have to be realistic. The less realistic to better
in my book.
Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah, Well, if we're going crazy, then let's say
Blake Wesley, Stefan, Castle City, Sissoko, Jeremy Sohan and Victor
woman Yama. You got a ton of defensive versatility. You
got guys who can handle the ball. You got guys
who can pass the ball. Fortunately you got a guy.
A lot of guys can't shoot, but maybe they learn
how to shoot miraculously. They're all shooting well and like
you're working with you know fire. That's that's a weird lineup.
I'd love to see. That would be at least shooter.
Speaker 2: That's a lineup.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a weird lineup, not that effective, But if we're
going weird, I mean I think that's about as weird
as you can get with the spurs.
Speaker 1: I don't think mine is too weird by my own standards,
but I was trying to figure out a way how
to get to four out around Steph Castle, and so
I've Steph Castle, Wemby so locks I think Harrison Barnes
has to be in there, then Devin Vessel, and I
was kind of struggling between Keldon Johnson or my actual
pick is just gonna be Julian Champennie because as you
know from last year, I have a saw a spot
for him.
Speaker 2: So that would be like, can we get to four
out around anything?
Speaker 1: Four out with Steph Castle and then Wemby on the court,
and I count Wemby as an out now, like he's
part of any four out model.
Speaker 2: You can't you shoot that.
Speaker 1: I know the catch shoot percents weren't great, but like
I don't want to talk about what we talked about earlier,
but just the pull up three point percent, I never
would have been a zillion years guest that he would
have been as good at.
Speaker 2: Those as he was last year.
Speaker 3: No, and that was like even even having seen him
with you know, Mets ninety two knocked down a couple
of ridiculous shots, it felt like those shots that we
saw were like really the highlights, but if you were watching,
he didn't really knock down most of those pull up threes.
And then last year it was like the opposite. There
were a lot of pull up threes that.
Speaker 1: He volume was like like he was real, like it
was real volume.
Speaker 2: That's what the other thing that was staggering.
Speaker 3: Yeah, insane, just ridiculous, unthinkable. Didn't would never have predicted
that in a million years, even for him, I wouldn't
have predicted that.
Speaker 2: I will now just not push back on any prediction
for Wemby. Tell me whatever you want about I'll just
I'll believe it.
Speaker 1: As we record this, their win total is said at
thirty six and a half? Are you taking the would
you take the over under?
Speaker 2: On that? We'll start there.
Speaker 3: I'm probably leaning towards taking the over on that, but
I could understand the other side of the coin. The
only reason I would be taking the over is because
I think I am banking on internal development. I am
banking on Victor Winbin Yama being a lot better this season.
I think Devin Vessel will be much improved. I think
the addition of Harrison Barnes and Chris Paul will do
wonders for spacing, for consistent creation, and I think shifting
guys back to the bench like Keldon Johnson, like Trey Jones,
maybe even Julian Champagnee, it really reinforces their depth and
so I think they could have a good chance to
you know, it's probably not a winning record, but you know,
thirty six, thirty seven, thirty eight wins, I don't think
that's out of the question. The only problem I have
with that is the West is so so so deep,
and shout out to the Grizzlies, by the way, I
don't know that people are really giving them a ton
of credit. I think they're gonna be a monster in
the West again, and that's saying something considering how deep
the West was last year and really is routine the
year after year.
Speaker 1: I think what benefits I mean, like the West is
hilaciously deep, but like the Grizzlies are going to be
back up and now the Clippers are gonna suck, so
that will like maybe even things out a little bit.
Speaker 2: But I think we haven't done our over unders yet.
Speaker 1: But I think the only way they probably won't hit
the over is and you can use the injury caveat,
but you don't get to use it with Wemby after
he played in seventy one games as a rookie, Like
you don't get to everything as well if they're healthy,
Like that's just implied unless they decide to lean into it,
like an out of it at some point in the season.
Because the numbers with Devin vessel Trade and Wemby on
the court last year were incredible and now you're scaling
that to better. We talked about this already better point
guard play and as you said, internal development, specifically from
what already might be like he was, he was on
the fringes of the All NBA discussion last year, Like
as a rookie, that's fucking crazy.
Speaker 2: How many teams though, would you.
Speaker 1: Be confident to say right now that, okay, they will
be better than them in the West. There's I think
Portland for sure, and then I'm like it starts to
get interesting after that, where I think it'll be Utah,
Like I think that they're not going to be even
though they re like extended lowry, but like after that
it gets I think you could tell me, like you
could tell me this Spurs finished like seventh eighth, and
I'll believe you, But like you could also just tell
me that the Spurs finished twelfth thirteenth, and I probably
also believe you.
Speaker 2: Because of the structure of the Western Conference.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what I struggle with because I looked
at the teams in the West and really outside of Portland, Utah,
maybe the Clippers too. I don't know that there's a
lot of teams that they're just outright better than, like
just off the top of my head thinking about the
moves that other teams made, you know, like the Nuggets
are definitely better, the Lakers are definitely better. You know.
The Suns to me, are you know, definitely better. The
Timberwolves are still better, The Mavericks are still better. Could
argue maybe the Warriors. Maybe the Warriors have a bit
of a drop off, a precipitous drop off after you know,
the exit of Klay Thompson, and it kind of feels
like things are coming to an end for them. But
even then, they still have Steph Curry, they still have
Draymond Green, they still have Comingo, who looked phenomenal I
thought at the end of last season and could maybe
have a real breakout season. So like, really, I think
those three teams that we talked about, the Clippers, the Blazers,
and the Jazz probably are the only ones just off
the top of my head. But I'm sure I could
be forgetting someone. But it feels like it's gonna be
another of a year in the Western Conference.
Speaker 1: Noah, is there anything or anyone I didn't ask you
about that you think we need to discuss before I
let you out of here?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Just real quick, I shout out to Harrison Barnes.
I don't think people are giving him really the credit
he deserves. Like he's a guy who he didn't have
to waive his trade kicker. He waived his trade kicker.
It allowed the Spurs to bring back Julian Champagne, it
allowed them to bring back Charles Bassi, And then I
think people probably have forgotten about Harrison barnes legacy as
a player because he maybe isn't a superstar who you know,
is going to go to the Hall of Fame. But
McDonald's all American, top recruit in his class, a guy
who's won an NBA Championship, played for Roy Williams, has
been you know, a lottery pick, has been to the
playoffs several years, has been to the league for you know,
fourteen fifteen years. Adding someone like that to be a
mentor and show guys like Wimbin Yama the day to
day grind of you know, how to handle yourself as
a professional on and off the court, tips and tricks
of the game. You know what it takes to be
a winner at the highest level. Like I think obviously
Chris Paul we knew was going to bring that sort
of ara to the team. But having a leader like
that and someone who can set an example for the Spurs,
I think Harrison Barnes probably is going to be bigger
for them in that capacity. Even if he is good
on the court, I think in that capacity, probably bigger
than people realize. So just wanted to give him a
shout out there because I think he deserves his flowers
in that regard.
Speaker 2: Noah, this was great as always. Are you just able
to tell our listeners where they can find you in
all the great work that you do?
Speaker 3: Absolutely? Yeah. First off, thank you so much for having me,
and yeah, you can find me on Twitter or ex
whatever you call it now at n Underscore Magaro M
A G A r O. You can find all of
my writing, my podcast, my video breakdowns over on substack.
It is called the Vic and Roll Vic Dash and
Dash Roll. And then lastly, you can find my YouTube
videos over on YouTube. Just search my name no mcgar
george or look up Spurs. I'm sure you'll find me
there too. But yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Always enjoy talking basketball with you, Always enjoy talking about
Spurs basketball. So thank you again for having me.
Speaker 2: Oh of course, then thank you so much for all
your time. I will talk, he said,