Speaker 1: This episode MA contained content of a graphic nature, including
Speaker 1: descriptions of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals.
Speaker 1: Listener discretion is advised. Hi, this is Tanya.
Speaker 2: Hi, this is Shannon, and we are.
Speaker 1: Crimes and Consequences, a hardcore true crime podcast.
Speaker 2: Hey Shannon, Hey Tanya, how are you?
Speaker 1: I'm doing great? How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm doing pretty good too.
Speaker 3: I know we were talking before we started recording, but
Speaker 3: just like to let everybody know that I'm building my
Speaker 3: lexicon as we speak, my own personal vocabulary, and I'm
Speaker 3: hoping to impress you with my expanded vocabulary someday soon.
Speaker 2: No, I was.
Speaker 1: Telling Shannon how I need to expand my lexicon as well,
Speaker 1: because my reactions in the podcast are pretty much, oh
Speaker 1: my god, right exactly. I mean, yeah, that's the range
Speaker 1: of my emotions that is so funny.
Speaker 3: I feel the same with my especially with exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: I'm like geez a, Luciana, and pick another word.
Speaker 3: You know, any word I know precisely, precisely. No, but
Speaker 3: there's a bunch the surface lexicon is our our fifteen
Speaker 3: hundred words that for sure, we every day we say
Speaker 3: it leaves these same lexicon and then there's a lex
Speaker 3: kind of words that we know, but we just don't
Speaker 3: use them.
Speaker 2: And I was like, outside of the.
Speaker 3: Articles, like the A and so that's gonna fill about
Speaker 3: forty words of my surface lex on our articles. That's
Speaker 3: how much I speak. And then the other ones are like,
Speaker 3: fuck that, fuck this, what's the shit? I really declined
Speaker 3: in my oratory? I don't even know if oratory.
Speaker 2: Is a word. It is, Yeah, thank you, I'm glad
Speaker 2: to hear that. Be guys, I liked you expand it,
Speaker 2: but good things ahead.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, fuck is definitely in my fifteen hundreds acon.
Speaker 2: Noun, verb, ad verb. It very very useful.
Speaker 3: So tell me, girl, what kind of story are you
Speaker 3: bringing us today?
Speaker 1: Well, before I get into this week's episode, I would
Speaker 1: just like to remind everyone to hit subscriber follow and
Speaker 1: whatever app you're listening to. And the episode that I
Speaker 1: have for everyone today is a pretty well known episode.
Speaker 1: It is about the murder of Gregory Smart And if
Speaker 1: you're not sure, maybe you can't place the name. Once
Speaker 1: I get into this, you're gonna be like, oh, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I remember this story. So our Stories begins on the
Speaker 1: evening of May first, nineteen ninety around ten ten pm,
Speaker 1: a woman named Pamela Smart was pulling under her street
Speaker 1: making her way to her condo that she shared with
Speaker 1: her husband Greg. When her headlights hit her condo windows.
Speaker 1: She thought that maybe something was amiss because Greg, who
Speaker 1: was home, he usually turned on the porch light, like
Speaker 1: if he got home from work first, like they had
Speaker 1: this you know thing, like whoever got home first would
Speaker 1: turn on the porch lights, and it was off, and
Speaker 1: she noticed he was home. After Pamela pulled her car
Speaker 1: into the garage of the condo and walked inside the home,
Speaker 1: she turned on the foyer light and saw her twenty
Speaker 1: four year old husband's body laying in a pool of
Speaker 1: his blood right near the foyer of the home. Pamela
Speaker 1: said that on May first, nineteen ninety, that day started
Speaker 1: off carefree, like any other day that she's lived. She
Speaker 1: went to work, she went to a meeting, she left
Speaker 1: for the day, and she found her husband's dead body
Speaker 1: when she came home. Wow, his body was laying in
Speaker 1: a dark hallway and he was still wearing what he
Speaker 1: had on when he left for work that morning. It
Speaker 1: was a gray suit jacket with dress pants. Under his
Speaker 1: body was his wedding ring, his keys, and his wallet.
Speaker 1: Most of his body was on the dining room blue carpet,
Speaker 1: but his ankles were in the foyer and his arm
Speaker 1: was bent backwards at the elbow in an odd way.
Speaker 1: His left foot ended up kind of twisted because it
Speaker 1: had been caught in between a brass candlestick and the
Speaker 1: stairwell wall by the back door of the condo. A
Speaker 1: small television and two sereal speakers had been left behind
Speaker 1: by whoever assumingly attacked Greg and the family dog. His
Speaker 1: name was Halen. He was found hiding in a dark
Speaker 1: place inside the house, and this dog was scared shitless.
Speaker 1: Oh so, when pam discovered Greg's body, she began screaming
Speaker 1: for someone to help her, and she's ringing the neighbor's doorbells,
Speaker 1: she's banging on their doors. One of her neighbors answered
Speaker 1: the door and pulled Pamela quickly inside because you know,
Speaker 1: they don't know if there's still an attacker on the loose.
Speaker 1: God knows when this happened. So she's saying that her
Speaker 1: husband been hurt and that he's lying on the floor
Speaker 1: and Greg had been shot. He was shot execution style.
Speaker 1: The bullet entered his skull above his left ear and
Speaker 1: it was a thirty eight caliber bullet, so he was
Speaker 1: dead like as soon as he was shot shot. At
Speaker 1: this point, most of her neighbors had heard the commotion
Speaker 1: and had stepped outside to see what was happening. They lived,
Speaker 1: like I said, in a condo complex, and they were
Speaker 1: attached condos. They lived on the end. But all of
Speaker 1: this commotion is happening. So two calls were made from
Speaker 1: two different neighbors placed to nine one one. One neighbor
Speaker 1: just assumed that she had been beaten by her husband,
Speaker 1: so I guess that's probably on the nine one one.
Speaker 1: Another neighbor came to see if he could help, and
Speaker 1: when he asked Pamela where her husband was, she pointed
Speaker 1: toward the condo. The neighbor then started frantically looking inside
Speaker 1: all of the cars parked outside the condominium, and he's screaming, well,
Speaker 1: where the fuck is he? And Pamela's like, he's inside,
Speaker 1: he's inside. So when the neighbor ran up to the
Speaker 1: porch steps to add her through the front door, Pamela
Speaker 1: screamed for him not to go outside, just in case.
Speaker 1: You know, the intruder was still there. Right when the
Speaker 1: neighbor opened the front door slowly. The first glimpse was
Speaker 1: of the brass candlestick, since the foyer light was twinkling
Speaker 1: off of it. As the neighbor inspected further, he could
Speaker 1: see Greg's twisted foot. He opened the door a little
Speaker 1: more and he did see Greg laying face down in
Speaker 1: his own blood. It didn't take long for the cops
Speaker 1: to arrive, and at first this killing seemed random. Greg
Speaker 1: was pronounced officially that at eleven nineteen pm, and the
Speaker 1: crime scene tape went up. Police started investigating immediately, looking around,
Speaker 1: and they noticed that the entire condo was completely ransacked.
Speaker 1: Although the murder of Greg looked a lot like a
Speaker 1: burglary gone wrong, when police Captain Jackson got to the scene,
Speaker 1: he immediately noticed some serious red flags. He said, a
Speaker 1: lot of what was visible just didn't make sense. There
Speaker 1: wasn't a single sign of forced entry. The burglary quote unquote,
Speaker 1: took place at night in one of the most heavily
Speaker 1: populated areas in New Hampshire, and the method of the
Speaker 1: shooting was execution style. The police captain didn't believe for
Speaker 1: a second that this was a burglary, even though the
Speaker 1: condo was ransacked. He said there was no sign of
Speaker 1: a struggle. And burglars, though, don't usually fight. They don't
Speaker 1: usually pack guns. They usually like are in and out,
Speaker 1: you know, they steal whatever they need to steal, and
Speaker 1: they leave.
Speaker 2: Out no contact.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if they do commit murder, it's usually because
Speaker 1: they panicked. Yes, And the police captain noticed that it
Speaker 1: just seems staged somehow, it just didn't seem right. So
Speaker 1: let me tell you a little bit about Greg Gregory.
Speaker 1: Greg Smart was born to his parents, William and Judith
Speaker 1: on September fourth, nineteen sixty five, in Nassau, New Hampshire.
Speaker 1: So that makes him a viurgo, Yes, that does. Greg
Speaker 1: had two brothers growing up, and he went to Londonderry
Speaker 1: High School and graduated in nineteen eighty three. He had
Speaker 1: a pretty decent childhood and some would even say that
Speaker 1: it was picturesque more idyllic. On family vacations, the Smart
Speaker 1: family would go voting on Lake winnip Poseki, which is
Speaker 1: a gorgeous lake in New Hampshire. When he was little,
Speaker 1: Greg played Little League baseball and he even helped his
Speaker 1: team win a championship in nineteen seventy seven. While growing
Speaker 1: up in the eighties, Greg fell in love with heavy
Speaker 1: metal music and he was really passionate about it, and
Speaker 1: it was a passion that he would later share with
Speaker 1: his future wife, Pamela Voyas. Pamela Voyas Smart was born
Speaker 1: on August sixth, nineteen sixty seven, making her a Leo, Leo,
Speaker 1: Leo and Virgo to her parents, John and Linda, and
Speaker 1: she grew up in Coral Gables, Florida, with one brother
Speaker 1: and a sister. Her mother, Linda, was a stay at
Speaker 1: home mom and she ran a tight ship, doing everything
Speaker 1: she could to build a happy home for her family.
Speaker 1: Linda was the best of the best as far as
Speaker 1: moms go, and she was always there for her kids
Speaker 1: while her husband was working as a pilot. And even
Speaker 1: though her father, John was home irregularly because he was
Speaker 1: a pilot, Pamela had a very close bond with her dad.
Speaker 1: So as far as childhoods go, Pamela had a really
Speaker 1: good and loving childhood. She came from an all American family.
Speaker 1: She was a happy child with lots of friends.
Speaker 2: I think carl Gables is a really nice area. I
Speaker 2: do too, Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 1: Eventually, the Voyas family moved to New Hampshire and shortly thereafter,
Speaker 1: Pam started college at Florida State University. She was extremely
Speaker 1: intelligent and graduated college a year early despite working three
Speaker 1: jobs while she went to school. And I have to
Speaker 1: say she must have really been really smart, because I
Speaker 1: was college full time. I didn't go in the spring
Speaker 1: and summer semesters. But it took me five years.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Job, Yeah, and worked three jobs. One of them was
Speaker 1: a forty hour a week job. She was she was
Speaker 1: hustle on. It was hustling and her family called her
Speaker 1: an overachiever and I.
Speaker 2: Completely blound like that.
Speaker 1: Yes, she received her degree in Communication arts and her
Speaker 1: life school was to get into television journalism and be
Speaker 1: the next Barbara Walters. While trying to work her way
Speaker 1: up in the media, she worked as a college DJ
Speaker 1: on the local Telehasse radio station WVFS, the voice on
Speaker 1: eighty nine point seven FM. While at the station, she
Speaker 1: hosted two different shows. One was specifically for rock music,
Speaker 1: and she called herself the Maiden of Metal Oh. Her
Speaker 1: radio show is called Metal Madness. Her favorite bands at
Speaker 1: the time were Motley Crue and Van Halen. One day, though,
Speaker 1: around Christmas nineteen eighty six. That's when she met Greg.
Speaker 1: The two met while Pamela was home from college on
Speaker 1: Christmas break, you know, in New Hampshire. She had a
Speaker 1: boyfriend all throughout high school, but according to her, nobody
Speaker 1: else mattered after she met Greg. She said, initially she
Speaker 1: wasn't attracted to him, but getting to know him, that's
Speaker 1: when she fell madly and passionately in love with him.
Speaker 1: She loved how happy and fun he was. He was
Speaker 1: always smiling, he was just so much fun to be around.
Speaker 1: He also loved the same music as her.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Shortly after getting to know him, she told her family
Speaker 1: He's the one. Pamli's family loved him almost as much
Speaker 1: as she did. He had a rocker look to him
Speaker 1: and had like big eighties hair. He was everything that
Speaker 1: she'd ever dreamed of for herself. He was about five
Speaker 1: foot ten, He was athletic, build fit, and he had
Speaker 1: these different hobbies such as hiking, fishing, and skiing that
Speaker 1: kept him in shape. Pam was very petite and had
Speaker 1: a vibrant personality, and when they met it was just sparks. Well.
Speaker 1: Pam and Greg fall head over heels in love, and
Speaker 1: Greg moved to Florida to be closer to Pam while
Speaker 1: she was finishing her degree. The two of them tied
Speaker 1: the knot in nineteen eighty nine and together they moved
Speaker 1: to Dairy, New Hampshire after Pam graduated. They also got
Speaker 1: a dog, a Shitsu, and his name was Halen, Like
Speaker 1: I told you after Van Halen.
Speaker 2: That's adorable.
Speaker 1: Yes, you know. Van Halen was the rock band that
Speaker 1: brought them together at the beginning of the relationship, and
Speaker 1: their two favorite songs were You Really Got Me and
Speaker 1: Hot for Teacher. That know, I love that song Hot
Speaker 1: for Teaching.
Speaker 3: I had a huge crush on David Lee Roth in
Speaker 3: nineteen years and I had the poster of him where
Speaker 3: he was leaning over like a makeup tha like with
Speaker 3: the lights to get ready. He's leaning over and assless
Speaker 3: leather chaps, you can guys kind of catch from the lighting,
Speaker 3: big old bottle of Jack Daniels. He just looks so
Speaker 3: freaking delicious. My mother hated like that poster. She would
Speaker 3: look at me disgusting. Yeah, you mean if you mean
Speaker 3: hot when you say disgusting, Yes, he's very disgusting.
Speaker 1: Funny, I know, and I can totally picture it with
Speaker 1: that description right with that hair and yeah, oh gosh. However,
Speaker 1: not even six months into their marriage, things began to
Speaker 1: sour between the couple. According to Pamela, the downfall of
Speaker 1: their marriage was due to the fact that Greg had
Speaker 1: admitted to having a one night stand right at the
Speaker 1: beginning of their marriage. Now, I don't know if that's true.
Speaker 2: Mm hm oh right, because that's his first story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, first story, right, So I don't know if it's true.
Speaker 1: I really, I don't know. I don't know Greg, I
Speaker 1: didn't know. I don't know if he had like a
Speaker 1: guilty conscience about it. But Pamela also seemed kind of
Speaker 1: bored and tired with Greg, especially now that his battle
Speaker 1: head image faded. When he got a grown up job
Speaker 1: in insurance, he cut his hair and wore suits to work.
Speaker 1: She had compared him to looking like John bon Jovi,
Speaker 1: but when he cut his hair, he looked so basic,
Speaker 1: and that wasn't the man she was attracted to. She
Speaker 1: wanted the rock star version of Greg. Pamela quickly wondered
Speaker 1: where the man she married had gone. Like I said,
Speaker 1: he got a job working for an insurance company. He
Speaker 1: needs to support his wife, and he wants to start
Speaker 1: a family. Somedays, so he's getting a real job. And
Speaker 1: at the time, she was working for winn Ackoonant High
Speaker 1: School located in Hampton, New Hampshire, as the media director.
Speaker 1: Gregg had worked his way up the business ladder and
Speaker 1: he became a very accomplished salesman for insurance. While she
Speaker 1: was working for the high school, Pamela was able to
Speaker 1: dabble in broadcasting and continue on her passion for music.
Speaker 1: Her roles at the school included producing educational videos for
Speaker 1: students and they were distributed districtwide. Pamela believed that this
Speaker 1: role was a stepping stone toward her dream job as
Speaker 1: a news anchor. She had her own secretary and student
Speaker 1: intern to help her in any way she needed. Wow
Speaker 1: Every student at the high school looked up to pam
Speaker 1: She was one of the cool people on the staff
Speaker 1: and she spoke to the students like she was like
Speaker 1: a friend. She would always talk to the students about music,
Speaker 1: and she told them about meeting Eddie van Halen and
Speaker 1: getting backstage passes to one of the van Halen concerts.
Speaker 1: From the outside, though, the marriage between Greg and Pamela
Speaker 1: seemed to be peachy to everyone that knew them. Pamela
Speaker 1: described her marriage with Greg as picture perfect. So I
Speaker 1: don't know when she said that, but she so red flag.
Speaker 2: That's the huge red picture perfect.
Speaker 1: You're perfect, okay, unlikely? Yes, yeah, And by all accounts,
Speaker 1: Greg was completely dedicated and truly devoted to his wife.
Speaker 1: He was looking forward to starting a family with Pamela
Speaker 1: and Haylen. But Pamela was a little different. She seemed
Speaker 1: to care tad more for the dog more than Greg.
Speaker 1: It would make the dog home cooked meals and instead
Speaker 1: of Greg. I'm sure though you know Greg got home
Speaker 1: cooked meals too, But.
Speaker 3: That is a little prioritize wise, a little red flag there.
Speaker 1: She's not feeding the dog dog food apparently right. Pamela
Speaker 1: thought herself as a typical Leo who was always looking
Speaker 1: out for her own best interests no matter what. She
Speaker 1: loved to be the center of attention and said about
Speaker 1: herself quote, everywhere I go, I'm always attracting attention for
Speaker 1: some reason or another. I'm loud, very outgoing and stuff.
Speaker 1: And as you know, I'm a Leo. And she said,
Speaker 1: Leo is a bad name.
Speaker 2: At this moment, she is not portraying Leo's in a
Speaker 2: very good light. No, not at all. No, I love
Speaker 2: the attention either.
Speaker 3: I will always be positive when I say, oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: you're such an attention whore, Like if I said it
Speaker 3: to you, that would be hilarious because I know how
Speaker 3: much you love it, and I love that about you.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. I genuinely love it. I'm
Speaker 3: just like, look at you go. You are in your
Speaker 3: element and I love.
Speaker 2: It just like print.
Speaker 1: But I don't think like I do it on purpose exactly.
Speaker 2: You don't come across like, oh this, but I can.
Speaker 3: When you're in your element, I just sit back.
Speaker 2: I'm your biggest cheerleader.
Speaker 1: Oh thank you.
Speaker 3: Other people can make it look ugly. You know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying, like, oh, look at me. Everywhere I go
Speaker 3: I get attention.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I would never say that I might.
Speaker 2: No, thank you.
Speaker 3: Class, It's called class, girl, learn it.
Speaker 1: While Pamela was working on various different projects at the school,
Speaker 1: one of her more notable project was something called Project
Speaker 1: Self Esteem. This was about drug awareness. Participation in the
Speaker 1: program was mandatory for all freshmen students, and she was
Speaker 1: able to get them on board pretty easily with how
Speaker 1: she talked to them like they were her friends. And
Speaker 1: pressed the program's participants. But one student in particular grew
Speaker 1: completely infatuated with Pamela, and that was fifteen year old
Speaker 1: Billy Flynn. So let me tell you a little bit
Speaker 1: about Billy. William Patrick Flynn was born on March twelfth,
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four, making him a Pisces to his parents
Speaker 1: Billemy Lane. His parents' marriage was considered to be turbulent
Speaker 1: and chaotic, and Billy seemed to always be put right
Speaker 1: in the middle of his parents' constant arguing. He grew
Speaker 1: up with two brothers, and Billy took the brunt of
Speaker 1: their father's anger. Billy, his mother later said, quote, if
Speaker 1: things were going my husband's way, he was a great
Speaker 1: guy to be around, but as soon as he had
Speaker 1: to deal with any inconvenience, forget it end quote Willy Yeah.
Speaker 1: Eline finally chose to leave her husband after she found
Speaker 1: out that he had been having an affair and had
Speaker 1: been cheating on her for years. After his parents divorced,
Speaker 1: twelve year old Billy moved to New Hampshire with his
Speaker 1: siblings and mom. He never wanted to move, and he
Speaker 1: felt a lot of animosity toward his mother for making
Speaker 1: him move. When he was about two weeks from his
Speaker 1: thirteenth birthday, his father passed away in a tragic car accident.
Speaker 1: A car had pulled out in front of him while
Speaker 1: he was driving, and he had to swerve out of
Speaker 1: the way to not hit the car. Unfortunately, he swerved
Speaker 1: into a gasoline tinker that was carrying nine thousand gallons
Speaker 1: of gas and there was a massive explosion and Billy's
Speaker 1: father was burned alive like ferociously. The only remains left
Speaker 1: to help identify his charred body were his teeth. After
Speaker 1: Billy heard the news of the accident, he shut down
Speaker 1: socially and spent the majority of his time by himself.
Speaker 1: Billy's mother said that he was always acting out while
Speaker 1: at home, but he was never violent. Any little inconvenience
Speaker 1: would send him into a spiral, and talking to him
Speaker 1: in general was extremely difficult until he would finally calm down.
Speaker 1: His mother said quote that was one side to Billy,
Speaker 1: that he projected to people that he wanted to impress.
Speaker 1: He wanted to be liked, because she said he was
Speaker 1: charming and very mannerly. Inside the family is where he
Speaker 1: took out his anger like a volcano, waiting to erupt
Speaker 1: end quote. Billy became smitten with Pamela almost immediately. His
Speaker 1: infatuation got pretty serious as he became Pamela's number one
Speaker 1: help on Project Self Esteem. He also visited her office
Speaker 1: every single day. The first time you saw her was
Speaker 1: at a meeting for the project's discussion leaders, and after
Speaker 1: Pamela was introduced to speak at the meeting, Billy turned
Speaker 1: to his friend and said, I'm in love. It was
Speaker 1: the fall of nineteen eighty nine, which happened to be
Speaker 1: around the time when Greg made his supposed confession of
Speaker 1: adultery to Pamela, and Pamela said that around this time,
Speaker 1: Greg also encouraged her to hang out with her friends
Speaker 1: that she had made while working at the school, which
Speaker 1: I really find weird because she's hanging out with a
Speaker 1: bunch of teenagers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my friends are students. So when you tell me
Speaker 3: to go hang out with my friends, yeah, I he
Speaker 3: meant colleagues, Yeah right, and she was like fifteen year olds.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fifteen year old's great. When the work for Project
Speaker 1: Self Esteem was done, Pamela and Billy kept working together
Speaker 1: on a video for an Orange Juice video competition. Like
Speaker 1: I think it was like a commercial like you had
Speaker 1: to submit a commercial about it. Billy was a shy
Speaker 1: kid with big eyes and shoulder length hair, so picture
Speaker 1: the hairstyle that Greg literally had just chopped off a
Speaker 1: job to look more professional. Billy wore a leather jacket
Speaker 1: and an earring. He played guitar and people always compared
Speaker 1: him to a young Paul McCartney. He had a passion
Speaker 1: for music in his favorite band was Motley Crue. Billy
Speaker 1: had two close friends, Patrick who they called Pete Randall
Speaker 1: in Vance Jr. Vladimir Junior. They were often referred to
Speaker 1: as the Three Musketeers, and they did a lot for
Speaker 1: the community of South Seabrook and Seabrook is considered blue collar,
Speaker 1: but they would do things like shoveling snow for their neighbors,
Speaker 1: running errands, doing odd jobs for those who needed them.
Speaker 1: They even gave free services to the elderly, and people
Speaker 1: in that area called them, like I said, the three Musketeers.
Speaker 1: The three of them met when they began middle school,
Speaker 1: and they were inseparable. Jr. Was two years older than
Speaker 1: Billy and one year older than Pete. He had dark,
Speaker 1: curly hair and wore very thick glasses. Which made him
Speaker 1: look intellectual. His life goal was to join the military
Speaker 1: and become a marine. Whenever he had any free time,
Speaker 1: he visited his grandma, who lived in Haverhill, Massachusetts, and
Speaker 1: he always helped with holiday dinners with his local church
Speaker 1: to help those who were in need of a hot meal. Pete,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, was a bit of a handful
Speaker 1: and his life dream was to become a professional hit man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but his mom described him as being a loving kid.
Speaker 1: Pamela was obviously not supposed to fraternize with the students
Speaker 1: like she did, but she began to quickly overstep her bounds.
Speaker 1: Even with her student in turn, named Cecilia, they became
Speaker 1: the equivalent of best friends, and Cecilia knew everything about
Speaker 1: Pamela's personal life. The same and worse was set about
Speaker 1: her relationship with Billy. The three of them even used
Speaker 1: to hang out together. When she was beginning to learn
Speaker 1: how to drive, Pamela would take Celia out in her
Speaker 1: Honda CRX. We would also let other teenagers drive her
Speaker 1: car to which you know that made her super cool.
Speaker 2: I can imagine that is some cool shit right there.
Speaker 1: The friendship between Cecilia and Pamela began affecting the teenager's
Speaker 1: life negatively. Though her school work, her other friendships, and
Speaker 1: home life were affected, but Cecilia didn't care. She idolized Pamela.
Speaker 1: Cecilia's mother said, quote, as this relationship went on and on,
Speaker 1: I liked it less and less. I was actually getting
Speaker 1: really angry end quote. Right after Cecilia met Pamela, her
Speaker 1: grades began to get worse, and her mother even had
Speaker 1: to speak with the administration because of how much time
Speaker 1: Cecilia spent at the high school's media center, where Pamela's
Speaker 1: office was. The assistant principal agreed with Cecilia's mom, but
Speaker 1: nothing ever came of the conversation. Pamela was so excited
Speaker 1: to be able to hang out with her students outside
Speaker 1: of school, and since most of them were from Southbrooks,
Speaker 1: she would invite the kids over to her condo to
Speaker 1: work on school project. Greg was spending more and more
Speaker 1: time with his own friends and Pamela with hers, and
Speaker 1: this is when she also developed an infatuation with Billy Gross.
Speaker 1: He's fifteen oh boy. One day, when Billy was in
Speaker 1: Pamela's office, she asked him flat out, do you ever
Speaker 1: think about me when I'm not around. Billy responded back
Speaker 1: by simply saying sure. Pamela said, well, I think about
Speaker 1: you all the time. After Billy heard that there was
Speaker 1: no stopping his romantic obsession with her, Pamela told him
Speaker 1: that she didn't understand her feelings for him, and she
Speaker 1: said she didn't know what to do with all of
Speaker 1: these feelings for him since she was a married woman.
Speaker 1: She couldn't shake this kid from her brain. And not
Speaker 1: even a month later, she found herself in his bedroom
Speaker 1: kissing him while the two lay on his bed. The
Speaker 1: whole time they were making out, Motley Cruz's Starry Eyes
Speaker 1: was playing over and.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, this is a romance on Bizarre World.
Speaker 1: Fueled by Motley Crue.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: Sometime in late March of nineteen ninety, Pamela invited Billy
Speaker 1: and Cecilia over to Ricondo to have a little bit
Speaker 1: of fun while her husband was out of town on
Speaker 1: business for his insurance company. Rather than watch a movie
Speaker 1: that was age appropriate, Pamela decides that she's going to
Speaker 1: put on that movie nine and a half Weeks, starring
Speaker 1: Mickey Rourke and Kim Bassenger. Yes, have you ever seen that? I?
Speaker 2: Was too young and was forbidden you see it.
Speaker 3: And then by the time the window was closed, I
Speaker 3: was like, no, baby, did you see it?
Speaker 2: Did you? Oh?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah I saw it and it was very steamy.
Speaker 2: I remember he at that time, right, he was.
Speaker 1: Super sexy and Kim Bassenger was beautiful. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: just remember there was one scene where they were in
Speaker 1: front of the refrigerator, like just basically making out and
Speaker 1: feeding each other like whip creamy.
Speaker 2: Yes, I do remember that little hot scene.
Speaker 1: So you know, she puts on this movie for the teenagers.
Speaker 2: And he's so impressionable. My god, he's fifteen right.
Speaker 1: Shortly after the movie ended, Cecilia went outside to walk
Speaker 1: Halen the dog, and when Pamela and Billy were alone,
Speaker 1: she asked him to come upstairs to her bedroom that
Speaker 1: she shared with Greg. Once the two of them were upstairs,
Speaker 1: Pamela put on a turquoise colored lingerie piece that she
Speaker 1: had bought specifically to wear to seduce Billy. For the
Speaker 1: first time, the two had sex, and while they were
Speaker 1: having sex, Pamela blasted her stereo speakers with Van Halen
Speaker 1: and Sammy Hagar songs.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: After this, the two of them met frequently over the
Speaker 1: next couple of weeks for secks. It was sometime over
Speaker 1: these sex filled weeks that Pamela said to Billy, you
Speaker 1: have to get rid of Greg, otherwise we can't keep
Speaker 1: on seeing each other. Billy asked Pamela she couldn't just
Speaker 1: get a divorce, and Pamela told him that Greg was
Speaker 1: basically obsessed with her and she was convinced that he
Speaker 1: would never allow her to have another relationship with someone.
Speaker 1: She added that she would also lose the condo, that's
Speaker 1: the real reason, I think, beautiful furniture, and their little dog, Halen.
Speaker 1: She couldn't bear the thought of losing everything, especially Halen.
Speaker 1: And she told Billy that Greg physically beat her on
Speaker 1: a regular basis, so the only way to get rid
Speaker 1: of him was for Billy to kill him. And just
Speaker 1: to defend Greg, that's never been proven that Yeah physically
Speaker 1: abused her. Pamela knew Billy would have done anything to
Speaker 1: be with her, and he agreed to kill Greg for her.
Speaker 1: Later at trial, when he was on the stand, Billy
Speaker 1: testified that he tried to kill Greg two times before
Speaker 1: he actually went through with the murder. When he aboorded
Speaker 1: the mission twice Pamela threatened to break up with him
Speaker 1: and scolded him. According to Billy, she screamed at him,
Speaker 1: if you love me, you'd do this. Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: when things took a serious turn. He began talking to
Speaker 1: his friends Pete and Jr. About his plan to kill Greg.
Speaker 1: Pamela let Billy know that the day of May first
Speaker 1: would be a perfect day to go through with their
Speaker 1: plan to murder Greg. Greg had appointments later in the
Speaker 1: evening and Pamela would have an airtight alibi with a
Speaker 1: school meeting to discuss salary review. She even told Billy
Speaker 1: that she would pay him money from Greg's life insurance payout.
Speaker 1: Pamela and Greg were basically roommates at this point in
Speaker 1: their marriage, and people began to notice the strain and
Speaker 1: their relationship. Cecilia even testified at trial that she overheard
Speaker 1: a conversation while Pamela was on the phone with Greg
Speaker 1: and said, quote, she was saying something about getting a divorce,
Speaker 1: and then they started fighting over who was going to
Speaker 1: take the dog in furniture and everything, and then she
Speaker 1: said fine, take the dog and hung up end quote.
Speaker 1: In the month before the murder, Greg was consistently coming
Speaker 1: home to an empty house, and he was eating every
Speaker 1: meal alone crazily. Billy was in the house one night
Speaker 1: to kill him, and Greg suddenly experienced an overwhelming feeling
Speaker 1: of danger as he walked into the condo, like his
Speaker 1: sixth sense went.
Speaker 2: Off, you know, his spidy senses. Yes.
Speaker 1: Greg told a friend that as soon as he felt this,
Speaker 1: he turned right back around and left the condo. Greg
Speaker 1: said that this feeling was unexplainable, but he just knew
Speaker 1: that he was in immediate danger and needed to leave
Speaker 1: the house as soon as possible. In the days leading
Speaker 1: up to Greg's execution style murder, Billy was talking with Jr.
Speaker 1: And Pete regularly walking through the plan, which was that
Speaker 1: all three of them are going to wear their darkest
Speaker 1: clothing they could find, and that they were going to
Speaker 1: park it a nearby shopping mall. Pamela was going to
Speaker 1: leave the cellar door open along with the back door.
Speaker 1: Billy was going to enter the condo through one, and
Speaker 1: Pete was going to enter the condo through another. They
Speaker 1: needed to stage the house to make it look like
Speaker 1: a burglary, and Pamela told them to take anything they wanted,
Speaker 1: such as any electronics that they could carry an expensive jewelry. Jr.
Speaker 1: Was going to wait at the plaza at the mall
Speaker 1: for them to return. Billy had three specific rules for me. First, one,
Speaker 1: they could not turn on any of the house lights.
Speaker 1: Pam said, Greg is a real whimp. If he sees
Speaker 1: the lights on, he won't come inside. Two, nobody could
Speaker 1: hurt the dog, and they were to place Halen in
Speaker 1: the basement so he didn't have to see Greg get
Speaker 1: brutally murdered. Billy said, Pamela didn't want Halen to be traumatized.
Speaker 1: And three, Billy wasn't to use a knife, only a gun.
Speaker 1: A knife would leave way too much of a mess,
Speaker 1: and Pamela didn't want any of her husband's blood to
Speaker 1: get on their beautiful white leather couch.
Speaker 3: She has some long game thinking, she's writes, apful the dog.
Speaker 2: I don't want the big mess. Mmmm yeah, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: this monster of a woman I know.
Speaker 1: On the morning of the murder, Pama left the house
Speaker 1: in her silver Honda CRX that had a vanity license
Speaker 1: plate that read Halen. Her plan was to be home
Speaker 1: well after Greg's murder. Later in that day, she met
Speaker 1: Billy at his locker to tell him the doors were unlocked.
Speaker 1: All of the jewelry that she didn't want the boys
Speaker 1: to take was warn to school that morning. Around two
Speaker 1: thirty in the afternoon, Billy called her to let her
Speaker 1: know that there had been a small problem. They needed
Speaker 1: a ride to pick up their getaway car, Jr's Grandma's
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight bright yellow Chevy Impala, which was going
Speaker 1: to be their getaway car.
Speaker 2: Awesome, so Pamela.
Speaker 1: Agreed that she was going to drive them over to jr.
Speaker 1: Grandma's house. Around eight thirty pm on the night of
Speaker 1: the murder, Billy and Pete entered the house as Jr.
Speaker 1: Stayed at the shopping plaza. Next, the boys tried to
Speaker 1: move Halen. As soon as Billy went to scoop his
Speaker 1: little ass up, he began growling and barking while he
Speaker 1: ran away. Billy chased the dog around the house and
Speaker 1: finally caught him. Then he literally threw Halen down into
Speaker 1: the basement, and the two boys laughed later on about
Speaker 1: hearing the dog slump as he tumbled down the stairs.
Speaker 1: The two boys then went on to completely ransack the house,
Speaker 1: scooping up jewelry along with CDs and taking apart pieces
Speaker 1: of the entertainment center. Everything's tall enough was placed into
Speaker 1: a black pillowcase. After the place was torn apart, they
Speaker 1: waited in darkness for Greg. When Greg arrived home and
Speaker 1: walked in the front door, he called out, hey, len
Speaker 1: on cube. Billy jumped out from behind the door and
Speaker 1: grabbed Greg's the shoulder of Greg's sport coat, and just
Speaker 1: like that, Greg was overpowered. One of the kids told
Speaker 1: Greg to give them his wallet, which he did, and
Speaker 1: Pete told Greg to give him the diamond encrusted wedding band,
Speaker 1: which said no, I can't do that. My wife would
Speaker 1: kill me. Right before Billy pulled the trigger to kill Greg,
Speaker 1: Billy uttered the words God, forgive me. Billy and Pete
Speaker 1: then ran out of the condo as fast as they
Speaker 1: could to get to the getaway car. Well Pamela was
Speaker 1: on her way home. She told Billy later that she
Speaker 1: had actually seen their getaway car while passing them on
Speaker 1: the road, and she flicked her lights on and off
Speaker 1: to say, Hi, oh my gosh, this woman huh so
Speaker 1: fucking delusion?
Speaker 2: Oh man, just cold yes.
Speaker 1: During the next few weeks of the police investigation, Pamela
Speaker 1: was telling the police that her husband was probably killed
Speaker 1: by quote some jerk, some drug addict person looking for
Speaker 1: a quick ten bucks end quote. The town of Dary
Speaker 1: hadn't had a murder in quite some time, in actually
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety. This was the only murder that happened in
Speaker 1: the town, so everyone was thinking, you know, it's gang
Speaker 1: related or some outlanders story. Yeah, right, But the police
Speaker 1: had a haunch that somehow Pamela was behind her husband's
Speaker 1: death due to her detachment over the whole thing. They
Speaker 1: got their break two weeks later when the police received
Speaker 1: an anonymous tip about Greg's murder. On May fourteenth, the
Speaker 1: police received a call from an unknowned woman who told
Speaker 1: the lead detective that Pamela had been involved in the murder.
Speaker 1: The caller was a friend of Cecilia's, and Cecilia had
Speaker 1: confided in her with this bit of important information.
Speaker 2: Right Oddly.
Speaker 1: There were also rumors around Dary that the murder was
Speaker 1: committed with a gun that belonged to j R's father,
Speaker 1: which was true, Oh yeah. After his father looked at
Speaker 1: the gun and noticed that it had been cleaned, he
Speaker 1: gave it to the police and it was placed into evidence.
Speaker 1: Not long after, the gun was turned over. All three
Speaker 1: boys were arrested for the murder of Greg Smart. The
Speaker 1: police later arrested a fourth guy, a nineteen year old
Speaker 1: named Raymond Fowler. After the boys were arrested, they all
Speaker 1: sung like a bunch of canaries and told police investigators
Speaker 1: that Pamela had seduced and manipulated Billy into killing her
Speaker 1: husband so that the two of them could be together.
Speaker 1: On August first, nineteen ninety, Pamela was arrested at the
Speaker 1: high school that she worked at in the parking lot.
Speaker 1: And this next part is just kind of hilarious. The
Speaker 1: detective told Pamela upon seeing her in the parking lot. Quote, well, Pam,
Speaker 1: I have some good news and I have some bad news.
Speaker 1: The good news is that we've solved the murder of
Speaker 1: your husband. The bad news is you're under arrest.
Speaker 3: And that is so I wonder if he practiced that,
Speaker 3: you know, the night before, Like, how do I present
Speaker 3: this tour?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeahoo, he's my cleverness. I know.
Speaker 1: I think that's great. Hey, we solved it.
Speaker 2: You're it tag?
Speaker 1: Yeahar it. Pamela plaied not guilty, and her trial was
Speaker 1: the first ever fully televised murder trial in the US.
Speaker 1: Wow and I think that's how we all know it. Yes,
Speaker 1: it has to be. And you know the fact that
Speaker 1: she's a teacher at a high school fucking one of
Speaker 1: her students, So I mean, which that was quite salacious.
Speaker 2: For sure, great word too.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's part of my lexicon.
Speaker 2: I just put it down on mine as well. I
Speaker 2: do like salacious.
Speaker 1: The entire country was glued to their televisions as they
Speaker 1: watched Billy take the stand to tell his side of everything.
Speaker 1: And I do remember seeing the video like of him
Speaker 1: crying on the snadh.
Speaker 3: I got.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The prosecution had zero issues talking about how unhappy
Speaker 1: Pamela was in the marriage and how she was looking
Speaker 1: forward to Greg's life insurance payout of one hundred and
Speaker 1: forty thousand dollars, which is equivalent to roughly three hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty eight one hundred and twenty five dollars today.
Speaker 2: WHOA.
Speaker 1: Cecilia agreed to wear a wire after the murder took place,
Speaker 1: and the recordings of her conversations with Pamela were played
Speaker 1: during the trial. In the tapes, Pamela acknowledged her role
Speaker 1: in the murder, and she told Cecilia, quote, you'd be
Speaker 1: better off just lying to the police. We'd go to
Speaker 1: the slammer for the rest of our lives end quote.
Speaker 1: Pamela was also on tape saying that the murder was
Speaker 1: almost perfect. Billy just had to brag about it to
Speaker 1: his friends.
Speaker 3: I just kid, she just zero responsibility and then trying
Speaker 3: to make us seem to Cecilia that we're going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going. Cecilia is like, bitch, I didn't do nothing.
Speaker 3: Because what how fucking she's Another thing about my lexicon
Speaker 3: is I am trying not to swear so much, you know,
Speaker 3: using fuck as an adjective.
Speaker 1: So why haven't you seen the studies that if you
Speaker 1: swear a lot, you're more intelligent.
Speaker 2: I do. It needs to balance out with good words.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just can't rely on'm fuck fuckery about her
Speaker 3: being such a predator to these boys and the girl
Speaker 3: you know she's yeah, she's really groomy.
Speaker 2: Yeah she knows or not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she really made them do what she wanted.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And who doesn't think that a girl is so
Speaker 3: you know, a young student or a young teacher. It's
Speaker 3: so cool. It's very impressionable, and she had a big responsibility.
Speaker 3: She totally took advantage of it. I don't pleasure. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure it wasn't worth it, pam.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I know. I remember when I was in
Speaker 1: high school. There was a new teacher and he was young.
Speaker 1: He was the typing teacher, and we were all excited
Speaker 1: to take typing.
Speaker 2: A huge surge. There was a waiting list for typing.
Speaker 2: Oh but back to our story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, jury found Pamily guilty of being an accomplice to
Speaker 1: premeditated first degree murder on March twenty second, nineteen ninety one.
Speaker 1: She was also found guilty of witness tampering. She was
Speaker 1: sentenced to spend the rest of her life in prison
Speaker 1: without any possibility of parole, and she remains serving out
Speaker 1: the rest of her natural life at a maximum security
Speaker 1: prison in New York. Since Billy was a minor and
Speaker 1: completely manipulated by Pamela, he was found guilty of second
Speaker 1: degree murder and his sentence was a pretty hefty one
Speaker 1: twenty eight years to life, but he was paroled and
Speaker 1: let out of prison in twenty fifteen. Pete was also
Speaker 1: paroled in twenty fifteen, while Jr. And Raymond Fowler were
Speaker 1: released in two thousand and five. Since the murder, this
Speaker 1: case has been made into a movie that you and
Speaker 1: I talked about called To Die For and it stars
Speaker 1: Joaquin Phoenix and Nicole Kidman. Did you ever see it?
Speaker 1: It's been so long, but Joaquin, you know, he's one
Speaker 1: of the people I go to the movies for.
Speaker 3: Yeah, even if I'm not interested in the movie.
Speaker 2: Oh, oh it's Joaquin. I'm there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's Joaquin, I'm there. Yeah, I remember seeing it.
Speaker 1: It was what was really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she looked really good, just like her sex appeal.
Speaker 3: And you know, you can just see from the clips
Speaker 3: you could get the gist of the problem that Joaquin
Speaker 3: would be facing, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. Billy was released on his forty first birthday,
Speaker 1: and during his parole hearing, he said, quote, I will
Speaker 1: always feel terrible about what happened twenty five years ago.
Speaker 1: Parole will not change that. I know that nothing I
Speaker 1: can say here today will be of comfort to the
Speaker 1: Smart family, but at the very least, I sincerely hope
Speaker 1: that this will be the last time they have to
Speaker 1: be publicly reminded of their grief, and I am truly
Speaker 1: sorry for the pain I have caused them.
Speaker 2: End quote.
Speaker 1: He met a woman while in prison and he married
Speaker 1: her and once he was finally released, He and his
Speaker 1: wife moved to Maine and butt a pretty large piece
Speaker 1: of land to live out the rest of their lives
Speaker 1: out of the spot late.
Speaker 2: That's nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I don't know what happened to the rest
Speaker 1: of the bunch, but yeah, I mean, so.
Speaker 2: She's still in prison and.
Speaker 3: Sounds like the ride the getaway driver and another accomplice
Speaker 3: got out in two thousand and five and then the other.
Speaker 2: Two twenty and fifteen. I mean, what a life lesson? Yeah,
Speaker 2: for these the nineties were a trip.
Speaker 1: Right, I know, they absolutely were.
Speaker 3: Oh, if you wanted it, you just took it, and
Speaker 3: you just made a lie. Oh, probably just somebody who
Speaker 3: came in the house of some drug person wanting ten bucks.
Speaker 2: You didn't really think about the story much, did you after?
Speaker 2: Because that sounds like a child.
Speaker 1: She put a lot of thought into how to do it,
Speaker 1: leaving the doors unlocked, make sure you ransacked the place,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah blah. Boy, oh boy. She
Speaker 1: did not prepare for the long game at all.
Speaker 3: No, And that is so important. Don't start anything unless
Speaker 3: you can have a long game. That's where that's where
Speaker 3: you're going to fuck up.
Speaker 1: And you know, she's like she's like distant about it,
Speaker 1: Like she's not like acting like she's distraught. Like, girl,
Speaker 1: you have to put on the act, like you have
Speaker 1: to act distraught and upset that somebody came and murdered
Speaker 1: your fucking twenty four year old husband, like.
Speaker 2: You know exactly the disconnect.
Speaker 3: You might as well wear a red cape with how
Speaker 3: little you're expressing.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: But if I did it, she should I did it.
Speaker 3: I'm lying, Well, that was a good That was so
Speaker 3: long ago, but it's still so fresh. I know that
Speaker 3: Nicole did such a great job of portraying the story
Speaker 3: with Jaquin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were all over.
Speaker 3: I did not realize that it was the first televised
Speaker 3: yeah either for everything. We know, the bigger ones like
Speaker 3: the OJA and Johnny depf, but we have to take
Speaker 3: a bow to the archaeotype case you know.
Speaker 1: This. Yeah, yeah, this one is. I didn't realize it
Speaker 1: was the first one either, so I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: you know, and then I was thinking about it and
Speaker 1: like that's pretty crazy, and it's like I said, that's
Speaker 1: probably how we all know it. And at least if
Speaker 1: you were an adult in nineteen ninety or close to it,
Speaker 1: you know, you would have seen it in the.
Speaker 2: News for sure.
Speaker 1: It's such a sad story that I and I don't
Speaker 1: know what her long game was. I doubt it was
Speaker 1: to stay with Billy for the rest of it.
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think she just loved the
Speaker 2: thrill of the chase.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's when you're fifteen in a world you're twenty
Speaker 3: six in your love of your life is fifteen.
Speaker 2: There was some delusional problems there.
Speaker 1: I think she was only twenty two or twenty three actually.
Speaker 3: Each Okay, even's I'm an adult and you're a child.
Speaker 3: Thing that happens when you're eighteen, right, you know, whether
Speaker 3: you're aware of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So not that I'm trying.
Speaker 1: To make it sound less gross, but you're yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean Billy, I hope he's having I feel so terrible
Speaker 1: naturally for the Smart family with Gregory, and then it's
Speaker 1: just so many factors, the youth of Billy.
Speaker 2: And then my god, it's the teacher.
Speaker 3: If you're a teacher, is inviting you to her home
Speaker 3: by specific lingerie for you, is blasting Van Halen and
Speaker 3: Sammy Hagar. He never listens to I can't drive fifty
Speaker 3: five again, because you know what I'm saying, like he.
Speaker 2: Thinks she is a goddess.
Speaker 1: Oh for sure, rock and roll.
Speaker 2: And she was doing this while this song was playing. Hello.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's older, she's beautiful, she's experienced, and she's him.
Speaker 1: And I doubt that he had a lot of sexual
Speaker 1: experience at fifteen years old.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: Totally manipulated him through sex. And you know, he's just
Speaker 1: a kid. He And again, I'm not trying to excuse
Speaker 1: what he did.
Speaker 2: No, not at all.
Speaker 1: But I mean him too, I only manipulated into doing this.
Speaker 1: He knew what was wrong and that's why he ended
Speaker 1: up in prison. But I feel it's just so senseless.
Speaker 1: I feel for Greg's because he sounded like a great
Speaker 1: guy and what like she just didn't want to give
Speaker 1: him the dog or the furniture. I don't get I
Speaker 1: don't get it, like she just wanted the money. Really
Speaker 1: wasn't even that much money, I mean three hundred grand
Speaker 1: Yeah right, it's not worth killing your husband for. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm in I'm not killing my husband for three hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: I need a bigger number.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I might think about it if it's like
Speaker 1: thirty million dollars.
Speaker 2: But I mean that's right, we're just in the hundred thousands.
Speaker 1: Come on, I'd pissed that away, so fat So anyway,
Speaker 1: the long game, Yeah, she wasn't mature enough either, No,
Speaker 1: and you know she just you know, when you're young
Speaker 1: and you get married, you married someone because they're hot.
Speaker 1: And now Greg cut his hair and wearing boring ass
Speaker 1: suits and she doesn't find him hot anymore, and you
Speaker 1: know what.
Speaker 3: And that's like so shallow, like you didn't like anything
Speaker 3: about like you don't have any roots that you loved
Speaker 3: about them. I mean, we can all change our appearance, right,
Speaker 3: it's our core. That is the fun.
Speaker 1: I mean he sounded fun and great.
Speaker 3: Totally, oh my gosh, and you're not. You don't become
Speaker 3: a very successful sales guide and insurance by being a dick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you had any like terrible qualities about him, the
Speaker 3: simple divorce could take care of.
Speaker 1: But it's just sad. So well, thank you Shannon, and
Speaker 1: thank you everyone for listening to this week's episode. If
Speaker 1: you haven't done so already, please hit subscribe or follow
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Speaker 1: have merch that we're probably going to be updating soon
Speaker 1: at some point. It's in progress. Like I tell everybody,
Speaker 1: can get Shannon on the website and.
Speaker 2: On the stem a time. We're getting there.
Speaker 1: We're moving forward right exactly. So anyway, I think that's
Speaker 1: all the business. So until our next episode, Shannon, I.
Speaker 2: Love you girl.
Speaker 3: You take care of yourself till next time, which could
Speaker 3: be tomorrow or the day after.
Speaker 1: It could be one of these days. I will see
Speaker 1: you again very soon, So I love you.
Speaker 3: I love you too, you guys, take care YouTube bye
Speaker 2: Ra think so