WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:05.960 It's nine with Dan Ray on WAZ Boston Video. 2 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:14.160 We're talking with Tom Samuelon. He is the former deputy 3 00:00:14.199 --> 00:00:17.359 director of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records and Review Board. 4 00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:21.879 Let's get back to calls and again looking for questions 5 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:26.239 or we can talk about experiences later after Tom leaves us. 6 00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:29.199 But but your theories or your thoughts or question or 7 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:31.239 a comment, that's what that's what we're doing right now. 8 00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:33.560 We go to Richard in Boston. Richard, you are next 9 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:34.119 on Nightside. 10 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:37.079 Welcome, Oh, good evening, thanks for taking my call. I 11 00:00:37.119 --> 00:00:40.520 came in late, sir. I was wondering if you ever 12 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:44.240 looked at the person who was the mayor of Dallas, 13 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:49.079 Earl Cable, and someone said that he caused the MOTIKEI 14 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:51.759 to change to go in front of the book depository. 15 00:00:52.280 --> 00:00:56.159 And the connection with him was his brother. His brother, 16 00:00:56.200 --> 00:01:00.000 I believe his childs Cable. He was a general assistant 17 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:05.560 in the CIA and President Kennedy fired him, and many 18 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:08.120 people thought that that was one of the connections that 19 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:12.959 maybe the CIA were responsible for killing the president and 20 00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:17.560 this man might have been involved with the assassination with 21 00:01:17.719 --> 00:01:19.920 his brother, the mayor. 22 00:01:20.680 --> 00:01:22.719 Let's see what Tom said If anybody would be able 23 00:01:22.719 --> 00:01:24.239 to give you a response to that would be Tom 24 00:01:24.280 --> 00:01:27.519 Samlike interesting, certainly thought, Tom. 25 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:34.200 I think that the characterization of the relationship between the 26 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:38.840 mayor and the CIA official is correct. I do not 27 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:43.319 think there is any credibility to the theory that the 28 00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:48.239 mayor was involved in any way and in any way 29 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:52.959 changed the Motorcate route. Although like every aspect Dan, as 30 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:57.280 you know, of the assassination, they are small. It all 31 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.719 is in dispute and sometimes it's hard to weave our 32 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:04.439 way through what reality there is in what's fiction. But 33 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:07.040 I don't I don't think that that's accurate. 34 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:11.800 Okay, I just thought that because the President Kennedy fired 35 00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:15.479 his brother who was an assistant in the CIA. 36 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:19.639 And it's no Richard, you explained it very well and 37 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:23.719 I had never heard that. But again, that's it's ironic, 38 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:28.159 and is that there's so many conspiracy theories or that 39 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:31.800 that has sort of muddied the water over time. Yeah, 40 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:34.080 it seems to me. But anyway, Richard, thank. 41 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:36.639 You for taking my call, and I thank you. It was 42 00:02:36.680 --> 00:02:39.439 a very interesting show. Thank you, thank you for raising it. 43 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:42.240 Appreciate it. Hi, good night. Let me go next to 44 00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:46.240 Gina in Bridgewater, Gina, you were next time, and I 45 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:49.560 said with Tom similar K, Deputy Director, I mean that. 46 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:52.599 Was just I remember this my mother speaking of it 47 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:55.240 because she was in the hospital at the time and 48 00:02:55.719 --> 00:02:58.520 she had my brother the next day, meaning tomorrow, and 49 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:01.960 she named my brother after him, his middle name, the 50 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:07.639 first name. And I also remember a story that JFK 51 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:12.319 wanted my dad to be his personal bodyguard many years ago, 52 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:16.560 and he refused it only because he said he wanted 53 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:18.240 to have a family and if he did that, he 54 00:03:18.280 --> 00:03:19.360 wouldn't have been able. 55 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:24.639 To What did your dad do? You know, we don't 56 00:03:24.680 --> 00:03:26.639 know who your dad was, Gina, But what did your 57 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:30.520 dad do that? Did he tell that story at family 58 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:34.199 tables or what? What did your dad remember? 59 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:38.719 Somebody did mention that and he wanted him to, probably 60 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:46.599 because he was in the military years prior and was decent. 61 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:49.240 My dad was John. He was just a decent person, 62 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:49.719 that's all. 63 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:52.960 Did you did your father know former President Kennedy? 64 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:54.479 I have no idea. 65 00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:57.599 Okay, all right, well I don't think Tom can comment 66 00:03:57.639 --> 00:04:01.280 on that one, but that's an interesting story from family. Thank you, Gene, 67 00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:04.159 appreciate you call very much. I have a great night. 68 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:06.159 Let me go to Ron and Newton. Ron, you are 69 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:08.520 next with Tom Samlik Right ahead, ron. 70 00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:12.240 Ah, Dan, thanks so much for having this. Tom, just 71 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:16.800 a quick question on what's what do you think is 72 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:27.120 the possibility that artificial intelligence and the amazing computation there's 73 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:29.279 the whole series of courses now the I T and 74 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:35.920 a whole department could supplement and because these computers can 75 00:04:35.959 --> 00:04:40.079 computate variables, uh you know, the many data sets that 76 00:04:40.120 --> 00:04:44.680 you can put together and also look at different scenarios 77 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:47.079 much better than we as human beings. 78 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:47.519 Uh. 79 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:56.000 I completed a course on Saturday on the application to medicine, 80 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:59.079 which is why I ask that's a great. 81 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:04.079 Ca I think it is a great, great question. It 82 00:05:04.279 --> 00:05:11.000 really is the latest chapter in how technology can be 83 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:16.279 used in criminal investigations. And if you go back to 84 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:21.680 nineteen sixty three, not only were their mistakes made and 85 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:26.160 things that would definitely not have been done today. And 86 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:29.600 if you look at the How Select Committee in the 87 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:34.279 late seventies, they did certain ballistic testing and other types 88 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:41.680 of technologic developments. Including Dan, you may recall the stuck 89 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:48.199 microphone on a Dallas police motorcycles who was in the 90 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:52.480 who was motor keate? And that turned out to be. 91 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:56.720 It's been disputed, and once again one of those things 92 00:05:56.759 --> 00:06:02.920 that's in controversy. I think AI will definitely become part 93 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:08.920 of the JFK assassination story. With AI just everywhere in 94 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:13.600 the news, and the uses for it are incredible, and 95 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:16.720 so I think people will will try to apply it 96 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:20.079 to the JFK assassination investigations. 97 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:27.120 As far back as nineteen ninety nine, Intitute of Medicine 98 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:31.120 published a report on two areas here in all of 99 00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:36.399 the deaths that were occurring. Even then, we had computational 100 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:40.920 ability using simulation models where we could plug in variables 101 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:45.399 to the different decision trees and do what they call 102 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:49.680 it Monte Carlo simulation, looking at maybe one hundred thousand 103 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:53.519 variables forward and you could come up, you could you 104 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:57.560 could you could find things out that were outside of 105 00:06:57.639 --> 00:06:59.879 the box in the manner that you would pick. 106 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:05.399 We think, I think that holds out a lot of possibilities. 107 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:09.519 Thanks Ron, great call, Thank you very much. 108 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:12.639 Great called Tom. I final question, and I'd say I 109 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:14.879 promised I would let you go after one more segment 110 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.839 if in your opinion and again this is your opinion, 111 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:21.560 but it's an opinion that is based on knowledge that 112 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:24.639 and observations that none of us have had a chance 113 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:28.680 to look at. If Jack Ruby had not been lurking 114 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:32.319 in that police garage and had not been able to 115 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:38.160 successfully kill Oswald, and if Oswald had gotten to his 116 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:42.160 jail cell that night and it had never been that 117 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:45.040 had lived for some period of time, do you think 118 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:48.959 that that we would have gotten the story which was 119 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:53.160 just a roundabout way of asking, Uh, it appears. It 120 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:58.959 appears to me that the Ruby aspect of this story, 121 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:03.560 if you believe that Ruby was just so empathetic towards history, 122 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:06.560 was that he was empathetic towards Jacqueline Kennedy, and that's 123 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:11.000 why he was felt compelled to kill Oswald. But if 124 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:16.319 that moment had not occurred, I truly think that somehow, 125 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:17.319 some way we would know. 126 00:08:19.480 --> 00:08:21.800 I think you're probably right, Dan, or at least we 127 00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:24.480 would have a better chance of knowing, if you think 128 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:30.560 about it. Oswald had defected to the Soviet Union. He 129 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:36.039 six weeks before the assassination. He had traveled to Mexico City, 130 00:08:36.559 --> 00:08:40.440 visited the Russian and the Cuban embassies. He had had 131 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:45.840 run ins with the anti Castro Cubans in New Orleans. 132 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:48.759 He had been in the Marines. 133 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:50.879 There is such a. 134 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:56.000 Rich history for someone who was only twenty four years 135 00:08:56.039 --> 00:08:59.320 old when he was killed. Just think if he had spoken. 136 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:03.279 Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World 137 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:06.519 night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio. 138 00:09:08.559 --> 00:09:10.840 Well, we're back here, and I hope you heard the 139 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:14.200 Amber alert, Tom Sam like. That is something that happens, 140 00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:17.600 and you well know that we were not able to 141 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:21.320 That's something we're obligated to do. Glad we did it. 142 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:24.399 I apologize for breaking on trend of thought. I'm gonna 143 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:26.240 let you go in about four or five minutes here, 144 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:28.559 but I just wanted to, first of all, thank you 145 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:32.559 very much for your time tonight. Thank you for the 146 00:09:32.679 --> 00:09:36.159 work that you have done. How was it that you 147 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:43.120 became the deputy director of this of this Assassination Records 148 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:48.039 Review Board, which I assume has now has in effect 149 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:53.960 gone out of business, is no longer an active agency. 150 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:57.679 And I assume I'm correct on that, if I'm not contradict. 151 00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:00.759 Me, Yeah, Dan, you are correct. The life of the 152 00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:07.000 board sunset if you will. On September thirtieth, nineteen ninety eight, 153 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:13.120 when the final report was literally handed to President Clinton 154 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:17.559 in the Oval Office, and he had a tremendous amount 155 00:10:17.559 --> 00:10:21.440 of interest in the assassination Dan. One thing I wanted 156 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:24.960 to mention just to give your listeners some sense of 157 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:28.600 what the volume of records that we're talking about. There's 158 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:32.919 over five million records that are at the National Archives 159 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:37.200 as part of the JFK Assassination Records Collection, and so 160 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:39.720 the question may be, well, what are the number of 161 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:44.200 records that remain. The estimate is, and I don't know exactly, 162 00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:48.919 but it's between three and four thousand documents that haven't 163 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:52.120 been fully released. So there are many that, as I 164 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:57.639 was talking about earlier, may have a name or something 165 00:10:57.679 --> 00:11:02.960 that relates to a intelligence gathering or method that we redacted, 166 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:06.360 that is the Review Board redacted, but I think can 167 00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:08.720 probably be opened up now. There may be about five 168 00:11:08.840 --> 00:11:13.600 hundred documents that have been completely withheld that may not 169 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:19.159 be exactly accurate, but it's around that. But your head 170 00:11:19.240 --> 00:11:23.320 on the former chairman of the Review Board, Judge John 171 00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:29.360 Tunheim from Minneapolis, and Judge Tunheim agrees that it's time, 172 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:32.799 it's long past the time the loss that everything should 173 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:35.799 be released twenty five years after the passage of the 174 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:39.480 law that created the collection and the Review Board, and 175 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:44.000 that was twenty seventeen, and that's when President President Trump 176 00:11:44.120 --> 00:11:46.480 said that he would release all the records. That was 177 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:51.279 just being consistent with blow second opportunity. He has said 178 00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:53.399 that he would do it, and so we'll wait and 179 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:57.840 see when he is president again on January twentieth. 180 00:11:58.600 --> 00:11:59.919 Well, you know, one of the things that I mean 181 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.840 remember from that era, and I can't tell you whether 182 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:07.200 it was when the One Commission report was released or whatever, 183 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:11.200 was the number seventy five stuck in my mind, and 184 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:13.840 I can I followed it as a you know, as 185 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:16.480 a young teenager and a high school student and a 186 00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:19.879 you know, an aspiring college student, and I thought that 187 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:24.000 it was going to be released seventy five years, you know, 188 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:27.600 everything would be released seventy five years after the assassination, 189 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:31.759 which whatever that would have put it at, I guess 190 00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:35.159 twenty thirty eight or something like that. I'm doing the 191 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:39.159 math in my head quickly. And one of the reasons, 192 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:40.799 and again I don't know that I ever saw this 193 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:43.559 as a television report, but or I started in a 194 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:47.080 newspaper that they wanted to make sure that everyone who 195 00:12:47.159 --> 00:12:51.200 was alive at that time, particularly immediate family members, would 196 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:55.159 probably not still be alive and does anything like that 197 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:57.279 ring a bell with you in your mind? 198 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:00.919 Yes, it does, and that I I don't recall what 199 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:05.399 the basis of that calculation was relative to the Warren 200 00:13:05.480 --> 00:13:10.080 Commission records, but that would have been superseded by the 201 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:14.919 law that created the review Board and the collection itself 202 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:16.600 in nineteen ninety two. 203 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:20.840 Fair enough, And so it's going to be up to 204 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:26.080 Donald Trump. And Donald Trump, certainly with his appointments, has 205 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:29.799 I think pretty much indicated that he's going with a 206 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:37.039 different type of team this year this presidency. But this 207 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:40.799 is one that I think everyone in the country would support. 208 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:47.000 My last question is do you believe that this was 209 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:51.960 not a matter of a group of people who conspired 210 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:55.720 to do this, that however it was done, whether it 211 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:59.159 was the lone gunman or two or three people, that 212 00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:04.720 the real embarrassment was the failure of intelligence, the failure 213 00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:08.200 of someone to pick this up in advance. Do you 214 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:11.799 think that was the motivation why certain documents above and 215 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:15.519 above and beyond the reasons that are actually given, it 216 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:18.399 was a failure of intelligence, and that we did not 217 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:20.360 want to let the rest of the world know that 218 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:23.679 our intelligence agencies maybe were not as good as they. 219 00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:28.639 Claimed, Well, I think that's part of it, Dan, There 220 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:31.120 were a lot of mistakes. There were a lot of 221 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:35.879 warning lights, if you will, because Oswald, whatever his role was, 222 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:38.840 if he had a role, and people differ on that, 223 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:44.879 but the FBI and the CIA were very aware of Oswald. 224 00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:50.600 They had been cracking him when he defected from the 225 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:53.799 US and he left the Marines and he first traveled 226 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.320 to Europe and then ended up in the Soviet and 227 00:14:56.559 --> 00:15:00.000 we released documents, the Review Board released documents from nineteen 228 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:04.799 in sixty of their Trapped eight department. They're tracking him 229 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:07.559 and his mother is trying to get help to find 230 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:11.639 out where he is. So that just continued up until 231 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:17.399 the assassination. That there was FBI and CIA awareness, So 232 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:19.080 a lot of mistakes made. 233 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:24.519 So again my thought, I'm not saying it's a theory, 234 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:30.159 but my thought is that there was a sense, you know, 235 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:33.360 there was a sense back in nineteen sixty three of 236 00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:36.480 this superiority not only of our military but of our 237 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:39.000 intelligence agency. I mean, we were number one in the world, 238 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:40.679 we had won World War Two and all of that, 239 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:45.759 and this kind of pierced that belief, if you will. 240 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:49.559 And so I'm just wondering if at its core it 241 00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:54.919 is not to cover up the actions of Oswald or whomever, 242 00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:58.000 but to cover up our failure to keep an eye 243 00:15:58.039 --> 00:15:59.559 on him and understand where he was. 244 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:04.360 And that maybe it's both. Maybe there was a desire 245 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:08.159 to cover up the failures but also not open any 246 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:12.440 doors beyond the loan gunman, because it's at the height 247 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:14.919 of the Cold War, So you may have what you'd 248 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:18.320 call a dual cover up, the covering up the mistakes 249 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:21.759 and covering up what may have happened, or a desire 250 00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:26.080 not to learn what may have happened beyond a loan gunman. 251 00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:31.159 Yeah. Boy, it's it's it's the story of it's the 252 00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:34.159 story of our lives, Tom sam luk Uh, and it 253 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:36.840 is the new story of our generation. And and you 254 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:41.519 have been there. And when when President Trump does disclose 255 00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:45.120 whatever he's he has promised to disclose, I hope that 256 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:47.720 they can't you involved in it, and give the credit 257 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:51.720 to to your agency of which you served as deputy director. 258 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:55.240 Thank you, my friend, Thank you so much. As all 259 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:58.279 welcome down. We will we will do this again when 260 00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:03.320 and if Donald Trump, let's let's the world know exactly 261 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:07.680 as much as he can what happened on that horrible 262 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:10.839 afternoon sixty one years ago. Today. Thanks Tom Semilak. 263 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:12.400 I'll look forward to seeing. 264 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:16.799 You perhaps at the Marry and Brett food pantry this spring. 265 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:18.880 Indeed, thank you Dan. 266 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:22.880 Thanks Tom, Tom Samuli, great friend. Okay, now, because of 267 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:26.000 the interruption of the Amber a Lord, a couple of 268 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:28.319 folks dropped off. Here's what I'd like to do. I 269 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:33.200 would like to give all of you an opportunity, since 270 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:36.200 Tom is no longer with us, to tell me what 271 00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:40.480 you think happened. Okay, Now again, I'd just love to 272 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:43.920 know if you think it was a foreign power, if 273 00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:46.880 you think it was the single gunman Lee Harvey Oswald, 274 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:51.359 if you think there might have been organized crime involved 275 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:56.000 in this. Certainly the Ruby involvement brings the whole question 276 00:17:56.119 --> 00:18:00.359 of organized crime into focus. We have thirty minutes left. 277 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:07.680 This is the sixty first anniversary. I remember as a 278 00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:16.240 student in the nineteen sixties when they remembered the one 279 00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:22.200 hundredth anniversary of the assassination of Lincoln, which would have 280 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:29.039 been obviously in the spring of nineteen sixty five. Because 281 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:34.480 Lincoln was assassinated in April of eighteen sixty five, it 282 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:38.039 won't be too long now before they will be remembering 283 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:42.680 the one hundredth anniversary of the Kennedy assassination, thirty nine 284 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:45.839 years from tonight. As I've told you before, I'm a 285 00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:48.680 bit of a numerologist in that regard because it kind 286 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:53.119 of does put things in context. We are very much 287 00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:56.160 closer to the one hundredth anniversary of the Kennedy assassination 288 00:18:56.359 --> 00:18:59.079 than we are to the actual day and night of 289 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:02.079 the assassination. So I'd love to hear from you. What 290 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:05.440 do you think If you are someone who's a student 291 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:10.279 of it, feel free. We have about twenty twenty six 292 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:12.720 minutes left before we get to the eleven o'clock news, 293 00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:14.440 and of course then we will go to twentyeth hour. 294 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:17.480 Just go open the lines up. It's not open lines, 295 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:22.799 but it's open to any thought that you have six one, seven, two, five, four, 296 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:25.400 ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty. 297 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:30.319 We probably will never know. As Tom Sammeluk said, you know, 298 00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:35.720 lost to history. But how sad I truly did believe 299 00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:39.240 that at some point there would have been a deathbed confession. 300 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:42.799 But I was naive because anybody who would have been 301 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:46.480 in a position of any authority at that time I 302 00:19:46.599 --> 00:19:50.200 assume has long since expired. My name's Dan Ray. This 303 00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:54.880 is Nightside doing something in remembrance of President Kennedy's assassination 304 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:58.759 sixty one years ago tonight. I remember it clearly, and 305 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:00.720 I remember the day that all well, it was shot 306 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:03.599 two days later that Sunday morning, back on Nightside right 307 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:06.400 after this. Now it's just you and me. Tom Samlik, 308 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:11.480 who was our guest, who again is an extraordinary individual. 309 00:20:13.160 --> 00:20:19.039 He's very, very good, very understated again, Deputy director of 310 00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:21.799 the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records and Review BOK. If 311 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:26.200 you missed him in the nine o'clock hour that hour 312 00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:28.039 as well as all of our hours, we'll be posted 313 00:20:28.039 --> 00:20:30.279 at Nightside and demand Field free over the weekend to 314 00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:33.279 give a listen to not only the nine o'clock hour, 315 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:36.279 but the ten o'clock hour coming up at eleven tonight. 316 00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:38.880 We will be going to our twentieth hour, of course, 317 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:44.000 which we do every Friday night, and we'll see exactly 318 00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:49.160 I have an idea about what we'll be doing in 319 00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:51.079 the twentieth hour, but I'm going to hold off on 320 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:54.759 that because I want to continue this hour and your 321 00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:59.559 recollections of what happened sixty one years ago on this 322 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:03.000 very day. It's very date James and Boston. James, you're 323 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:04.079 next to the night side. Welcome. 324 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:07.880 Hey, I was going good, James. 325 00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:10.759 You go right ahead with Now Tom Samlik has left. 326 00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:13.240 But I'd love to know your recollection or your thoughts. 327 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:17.359 Yeah, I know that he's done. I've been listening to 328 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:20.240 the show. You know, I think the government has something 329 00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:22.200 to do with it. They do whatever the hell they want. 330 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:24.799 You know, they're supposed to be elected officials like for 331 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:26.920 the people, by the people, but once they get in 332 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:28.519 an office, they do whatever the hell they want. So 333 00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:30.880 I mean, I wouldn't put it past like, you know. 334 00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:31.200 Just. 335 00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:35.240 Use your big words. Yeah big, he's your big words, 336 00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:39.160 by the way. Hold on, James, James, James, James, James, James, 337 00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:41.839 Hold on for a second. I would like everyone to know. 338 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:46.200 I'm told by my producer Rob that these three children 339 00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:49.960 for whom this amber alert was mentioned, all right, this 340 00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:52.480 you just heard, they have been found a safe and 341 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.000 sound and I'm sure our news department, our news team 342 00:21:56.119 --> 00:21:57.880 is hard at work on that. And stick with us. 343 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:00.599 We'll have some information coming up at all eleven o'clock. 344 00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:02.480 Go ahead, James, so I did interrupt you, but I 345 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:04.319 had to get that information out. Go right ahead. 346 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:06.559 No, that's that's good, that's good news. 347 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:09.799 Well, you know, I I think that, like you know, 348 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:13.480 he must have angered someone within the government or someone 349 00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:18.720 like there's no not a chance that like this Loane 350 00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:21.960 gunman shot him and then was killed like two days later. 351 00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:27.279 Like that that's logus. And anyone who believes that is you. 352 00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:29.319 Know, like you know, not in the right mind. 353 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:32.599 Well that was what the war. That was what the 354 00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:37.079 Warrant Commission, which was the official government agency, concluded, And 355 00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:40.240 then there was a lot of criticism of the Warrant 356 00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:45.319 Commission report over time, just an agreeable amount. And there 357 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:48.000 was a book you know that that if you're interested 358 00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:50.759 in this, I'm sure that you could find an old 359 00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:52.960 copy of the book. It was called Rush to Judgment 360 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:58.480 by Mark Lane. UH and the government UH, in all honesty, 361 00:22:58.599 --> 00:23:03.400 tried to diminish the value of his book. There were 362 00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:05.359 a lot of people who are saying, oh, Lane doesn't 363 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:07.640 know what he's talking about. But in retrospect, I think 364 00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:11.240 a lot of what Lane wrote about in nineteen sixty three, 365 00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:14.720 in nineteen sixty four, in nineteen sixty five actually had 366 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:18.720 a lot of validity. You know that early on. It's 367 00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:23.079 amazing to think that a president of the United States 368 00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:26.839 could be shot to death on the street of a 369 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:31.240 major American city in nineteen sixty five, and we have 370 00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:39.279 no clue as to yeah, yeah, nineteen sixty three. Excuse me, 371 00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:43.880 I misspoke in nineteen sixty three, and have absolutely no clue, 372 00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:48.759 definitively as to what happened, how it happened. 373 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:51.559 Why it happened, Yeah, not for nothing. For them to 374 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:56.880 withhold information documents like they're elected officials, they worked for 375 00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:59.599 the people, like we have the right to notice, and 376 00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:02.720 they don't have the right to withhold it, you know. 377 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:05.119 And if they want to withhold it, then they shouldn't 378 00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:07.920 be in office because it's it's not right. 379 00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:11.000 I happen to agree with you. I think that we 380 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:14.720 are now back in the time and you saw much younger, James. 381 00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:18.880 You sound to me like you're I'm all right, yeah. 382 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:21.480 So what I'm saying is back at the time, the 383 00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:24.119 Cold War was at its height, and there were some 384 00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:26.599 people who thought, well, this must be the Russians who 385 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:30.799 killed Kennedy. Uh, and it was that was that was no. No, 386 00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:34.480 I'm just telling you that Lee Harvey Oswald had let me, James, 387 00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:36.319 hold on for a second. Just let me, let me 388 00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:38.240 make my statement, and then I want you to react 389 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:40.079 to it. Okay, I just have a little patience with me. 390 00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:47.279 Lee Harvey Oswald, who many people believe, I think did 391 00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:50.279 fire shots from the school book depository. 392 00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:51.000 Uh. 393 00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:54.519 He was captured that day by a Dallas police officer, 394 00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:58.960 Dallas police officer, after he had had killed another Dallas 395 00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:02.480 police officer. It's an interesting it's an interesting ruing. He 396 00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:04.480 had been in the US Marines, that he defected to 397 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:08.000 Russia in nineteen fifty nine, and people thought, oh, they 398 00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:10.720 made him a spy or whatever, and that this was 399 00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:13.799 Russia trying to take out President Kennedy height of the 400 00:25:13.880 --> 00:25:17.960 Cold War. There were all sorts of theories going on. 401 00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:20.279