WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:02.919 Oh hey, it's the bird hanging out near your park bench, 2 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:07.200 hoping that your sandwich crumbles into pieces. Alley, ward and listen. 3 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:10.320 No matter what place in your life, lemurs have make 4 00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:12.759 some room because it's about to get bigger. What are 5 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:16.519 these animals? Well, the most endangered mammals on earth, but 6 00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:19.320 also I'm going to be a little shallow. They're the cutest, 7 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:23.960 and in that ven diagram of adorable and vulnerable, there 8 00:00:24.039 --> 00:00:27.920 exists pure relevance. So this guest is someone whose work 9 00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:30.160 I've loved for years. She's based at Duke University in 10 00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:33.479 North Carolina, where there is a world renowned Lemur Center. 11 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:37.359 They got free range lemurs running all over the forests. 12 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:43.240 As lemur ecologists assist with conservation breeding programs. They take notes, 13 00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:47.560 they watch them, they collect their poop, doing non invasive research. 14 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:50.359 It's a dream. You can also visit the Duke Gleamer 15 00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:53.039 Center and you can look at lemurs if so inclined, 16 00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:56.280 which who wouldn't be. So this ologists did their undergrad 17 00:00:56.280 --> 00:00:59.640 at Duke in evolutionary anthropology and they did a PhD 18 00:00:59.799 --> 00:01:04.560 in ecology studying lemurs in Madagascar, and she's worked at 19 00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:08.120 the Duke Lemur Center did a postdoc at a lemur 20 00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:12.840 lab studying adaptation and hibernation, and she's an excellent science 21 00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:15.280 communicator and a champion of lemurs. We're going to get 22 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:18.079 into it, including questions that you submitted via patreon dot 23 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:21.079 com slash Ologies, which you can join for a hot 24 00:01:21.159 --> 00:01:24.319 dollar a month. Thank you to patrons and to everyone 25 00:01:24.359 --> 00:01:27.719 out there wearing ologies merch fromologiesmerch dot com. Thanks also 26 00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:30.000 to everyone who's ever written a review, which really helps 27 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:32.120 keep us up in the charts where more people can 28 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:35.560 find us. And I read everyone, including one this week 29 00:01:35.560 --> 00:01:39.319 from Haley, a cancer biologist, another from MM Marshall twenty, 30 00:01:39.359 --> 00:01:41.719 who wrote, if you need to reignite your sense of 31 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:45.480 wonder and awe in the universe because hyper focusing on 32 00:01:45.519 --> 00:01:48.120 all your problems has made you forget that we are 33 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:52.400 statistically anomalists flesh sas on a spinning rock in space. 34 00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:55.120 This podcast may help. M Marshall twenty. I'm right there 35 00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:57.000 with you. I'm on this rock. I'm ready to hear 36 00:01:57.040 --> 00:01:59.640 about lemurs. So, due to time zones, I got up 37 00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:05.840 a little early and this was recorded in pajamas Liio. 38 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:14.400 Good morning, Good morning, seven thirty am Pacific time. We're 39 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:15.199 talking lemurs. 40 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:16.960 It's a good thing to talk about. 41 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:20.199 First thing, Yes, it was so. First off, the word 42 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:23.759 lemur comes from the Latin for ghosts or spirits of 43 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:28.360 the dead, because of their nighttime prowlings. And yes, people 44 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:33.159 who study lemurs are limerologists, just straight up. That's the word. 45 00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:36.759 It's on their LinkedIn bios. It's a term used in journals. 46 00:02:36.919 --> 00:02:39.879 Limerologist is a thing that you can be, and you 47 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:42.719 might want to be after this, So tuck in or 48 00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:47.520 hop around to hear about dangerous, fateful journeys, button noses, 49 00:02:47.719 --> 00:02:53.680 saucer eyes, striped tales, movie flimplam, tiny demons, giant anatomy, 50 00:02:53.879 --> 00:03:00.439 weird toe claws, matriarchies, madagascar, landscapes, folklore, travel tale, and 51 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:03.159 why intelligence is really all about how you use it. 52 00:03:03.400 --> 00:03:08.599 With wildlife ecologist and limerologist, doctor Lydia Green. 53 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:29.479 My name is Lydia Green and I go by she. 54 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:33.879 Her pronouns lemurs, lemurs, lemurs. I've known of you, We've 55 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:37.319 been friends mutuals, as they say online, for quite some time. 56 00:03:38.599 --> 00:03:41.560 I've wanted to come down to the Lemur Center and 57 00:03:41.639 --> 00:03:44.879 have not been able to, and you so graciously let 58 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:47.800 me interview you remotely Can I still come to the 59 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:50.240 Lemur Center at some point. 60 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:52.439 Yes, But what I would suggest would be even better 61 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:53.960 if you came with me to Madagascar. 62 00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:58.159 Okay, great, what time? Put it in a give me 63 00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:01.199 a gcal invite. I'll just clicks without looking at detail. 64 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:03.360 Sounds good. We got to make sure the time zone 65 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:03.800 works out. 66 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:06.719 But you know, how often do you go to Madagascar? 67 00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:10.319 As often as I can, But in a good year, 68 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:12.159 I would say I try to go maybe once or 69 00:04:12.159 --> 00:04:14.400 twice a year for like a two to three month trip. 70 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:17.079 It really just depends on the project and what we're 71 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:18.480 trying to accomplish while we're there. 72 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:22.480 What is Madagascar like? I have clearly never been, but 73 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:24.839 I can't even picture it. 74 00:04:24.839 --> 00:04:30.800 It is extraordinary. It's a really large, diverse island. In fact, 75 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:33.079 there's one argument to be made that it is so 76 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:35.079 big and so diverse that we should really think about 77 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:37.360 it more like a continent than we should like a country, 78 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:43.079 just in terms of its geographic features. Mountains, you know, oceans, beaches, forests, rainforest, 79 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:46.079 dry forests, highlands. It's just it's got everything you could 80 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:49.800 possibly want. And so the biodiversity and also the cultural 81 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:53.639 diversity is equally as diverse to match that geographic diversity. 82 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:57.079 So there's no one way to describe Madagascar. 83 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:03.120 It's just extraordinary, and our lemurs just Malagasy or do 84 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:04.279 they live in other parts. 85 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:08.759 So lemurs are endemic only to the island of Madagascar, 86 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:11.160 and in fact, many of us define a feature of 87 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:15.680 lemurs as they're living only endemically on Madagascar. There is 88 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:19.040 a population of some lemurs on the Comoros Islands, but 89 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:21.639 there is a pretty strong evidence that they were introduced 90 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:24.000 by people and do not naturally live there. 91 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:26.920 How many species of lemur, so. 92 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:31.199 We currently recognize one hundred and eight species of lemur. 93 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:35.000 There are also subspecies that push that number up so many, 94 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:38.720 but it really kind of changes across years, and that's 95 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:42.639 in part due to advancement in genetic sequencing, because there's 96 00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:45.040 quite a lot of diversity in lemurs that we can't 97 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:48.600 necessarily see with our own eyes, because that diversity isn't 98 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.720 present in how the animals look, but that diversity is 99 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:54.040 present in their genomes, and so we need to do 100 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:56.639 the genetic sequencing to see the diversity that we can't 101 00:05:56.720 --> 00:06:00.279 visually see. And so as the community is sequencing more 102 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:02.879 and more animals, they're gaining more clarity about how much 103 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:05.759 diversity there really is, and so that's been causing a 104 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:08.000 big increase in the number of species, which is why 105 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:11.560 we keep seeing new lemur species discovered. We of course 106 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:15.600 knew that animal lived there, but it's through understanding changes 107 00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:18.480 or differences in the genomes that we're understanding how many 108 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:19.720 species there actually are. 109 00:06:20.199 --> 00:06:24.560 So yes, genetic testing helps limerologists take a head count 110 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:28.160 of how many species are roving about in this over 111 00:06:28.279 --> 00:06:32.160 two hundred thousand square mile island nation, which is about 112 00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:34.000 two and a half times the size of the UK. 113 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:37.399 And if you're trying to get a visual picture, who 114 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:45.079 think rocky deserts, brilliant blue lagoons, rainforests, mountains and savannahs 115 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:51.240 silhouetted with Madagascar's iconic towering, thick trunk baobab trees. I 116 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:54.920 have never Google image search Madagascar, but my heavens, it's 117 00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:58.399 a gorgeous place. Also, it's filled with a primate that, 118 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:02.160 for some reason just burn into my very heart. Every 119 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:05.680 photo of a lemur hits you like it's your favorite child. 120 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:09.040 And there are again one hundred and eight species plus 121 00:07:09.079 --> 00:07:12.720 more subspecies, which Lydia helps keep track of. How does 122 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:16.160 that work. Do you like meat a lemur, you make 123 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:18.360 friends with it, you're like a little bit of sleepy time, 124 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:19.879 And then do you do a cheek swab like they 125 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:21.759 do for like twenty three and meters. 126 00:07:22.759 --> 00:07:25.319 So it really would depend on the species and the 127 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:27.720 size of the lemur. From the bigger animals, where we 128 00:07:27.720 --> 00:07:30.920 can do really close behavioral observations because we can see 129 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:32.959 them and they're active during the day, a lot of 130 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:35.519 the genetics is done through fecal samples that are just 131 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:40.079 collected off the forest floor. For the small nocturnal lemurs, 132 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:43.600 particularly the mouse lemurs that are as their name implies 133 00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:46.560 the size of a mouse, Being able to collect fecal 134 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:49.279 samples from that animal as it's leaping through the tree 135 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:53.079 tops at night is near and possible. So for those species, 136 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:55.839 we tend to use live traps like sherman traps or 137 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:59.279 tomahawk traps baited with banana or peanut butter, and then 138 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:02.600 we'll give the animal a brief physical exam under anesthesia 139 00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:04.720 so they're super comfortable and don't know what's going on, 140 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:07.360 and then we'll usually take a small skin punch, like 141 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:09.399 a little ear clip or something that they don't even 142 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:13.319 really notice. And grows back pretty well. And then after 143 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:15.920 they recover from anesthesia, we'll give them another snack and 144 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:19.160 then we'll release them that evening to their home territory, 145 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:21.360 so they're removed from the forest for less than twenty 146 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:23.279 four hours, and we make sure that they have a 147 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:25.560 safe place to sleep at camp during the day. 148 00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:30.319 Oh, mouse levers, Yeah, what do they look like? 149 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:33.919 They look like primate mice. I guess would be the 150 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:38.919 So there are about twenty five species of mouse leamers, 151 00:08:38.919 --> 00:08:41.679 so there's actually quite a lot of diversity within that genus. 152 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:46.320 But they're about forty to eighty grams at adult weight, 153 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:47.919 so they're super small. 154 00:08:47.879 --> 00:08:49.840 So they have a round body like a little pair 155 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:54.080 and even with their furry tail, a mouse leamer is 156 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:58.360 shorter than a human foot most human feet and many 157 00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:02.159 species of mouselemer have these little pointy elf ears. Sometimes 158 00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:04.320 they got a tiny tongue sticking out of their mouth, 159 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:07.919 and of course a set of these gorgeous hazel eyes. 160 00:09:08.279 --> 00:09:12.039 They look like marbles shoved into a slipper. 161 00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:15.480 And they have very large eyes, and they have quite 162 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:18.080 the Napoleon complex because they're so tiny, they can be 163 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:21.919 they can be quite feisty, but they're they're pretty remarkable 164 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:25.600 in how they just navigate treetops being so small. 165 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:29.600 I mean, if you had asked me, like a pub 166 00:09:29.679 --> 00:09:31.639 quiz how many species of lemurs, I would have said, 167 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:36.000 max four, three to four. I'm shocked by this. 168 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:39.360 That is incorrect. On your pub quiz, you would not 169 00:09:39.480 --> 00:09:43.519 gain that point. There are in fact five families of 170 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:47.320 lemurs that diversify into fifteen genera and then over one 171 00:09:47.399 --> 00:09:51.279 hundred species. And I think what happens in sort of 172 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:55.279 the American public knowledge is that we see images of 173 00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:58.759 a select few species that tend to be overrepresented in 174 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:01.720 captive institution or that are really easy for people to 175 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:04.480 see in the wild and then get photographs of. But 176 00:10:04.519 --> 00:10:06.639 there are also all these other species, like the sport 177 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:09.240 of lemurs, the wooly lemurs, all these different species of 178 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:12.879 mouse sleamers, the fork marked lemurs that people don't really 179 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:15.759 see or have as much connection to because some of 180 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:18.720 them don't live in captivity or that wouldn't be the 181 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:20.840 thing you would go see on a tour in Madagascar, 182 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:23.279 and so we're just less familiar with those species in 183 00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:25.879 pop culture compared to say the ringtailed lemur. 184 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:28.679 Mm hmm, I gotta say, I'm shocked that there aren't 185 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:33.919 more influencers that have mouse sleamers just as an exotic pet. 186 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:36.000 Oh my god, I'm so glad they don't. 187 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:40.159 I imagine if they have a Napoleon complex and jump around, 188 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:42.720 it might be a little more difficult than having a squirrel. 189 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:46.919 Yeah, I think you know. Lemurs are primates, they're smart, 190 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:51.159 they're social, They live their best lives in the environments 191 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:54.120 in which they evolve to live, and so it's just 192 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:57.120 not a great life for a lemur to be living 193 00:10:57.200 --> 00:11:00.679 by itself in somebody's house eating food. Didn't evolved to 194 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:03.559 eat dog. So we tend to think about lemurs as 195 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:06.120 living their best lives out in nature, in a nice 196 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:09.679 quality habitat where there's plenty of fresh figs on the trees. 197 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:11.840 Do you say figs? 198 00:11:12.080 --> 00:11:14.159 Yeah, the ficus trees are a big part of the 199 00:11:14.200 --> 00:11:16.039 diet of a lot of the fruit eating lemurs. 200 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:18.799 Well, let's backtrack a little and get into basics. What 201 00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:22.039 even is a lemur? In an email setting this up, 202 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:25.200 I wrote to Lydia, I was like, Hey, the ologies 203 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:28.759 feed is just screaming for a good monkey episode. Are 204 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:32.200 lemurs monkeys? Just one of my many questions to which 205 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:35.879 she was forced to reply, well, no, lemurs are decidedly 206 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:39.200 not monkeys. I was kidding when I asked that, because 207 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:41.360 they have long, curly tails and they bounce around in 208 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:44.519 forest canopies, they're fuzzy. They live off the coast of Africa. 209 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:47.480 Of course, the monkeys, what else are they going to be? Hairy? Alligators, 210 00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:52.039 tree elephants, not monkeys. And here we are lemurs are 211 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:55.320 not monkeys and they live in one island in the world. 212 00:11:55.440 --> 00:11:59.639 What is going on? What are they describe them? Thank you? 213 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:04.440 Yeah, so lemurs are not monkeys, but they're relatives of monkeys. 214 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:08.279 So like monkeys, lemurs are primates. So they are one 215 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:12.240 lineage within the order primates, that's the mammalian order that 216 00:12:12.279 --> 00:12:15.440 we belong to as well. And so the primates really 217 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:19.080 split into two major groups. That's the strep serines and 218 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:23.480 the halflarines. Now we humans are halflarines apes or halflarines. 219 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:27.240 Monkeys are halflarines, and the lemurs, along with the lorises 220 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:30.559 and the bush babies, clump over in the strepserine category. 221 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:34.720 And those words strepserine and halflarine actually have to do 222 00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:37.080 with the shape of the nose, and so you can 223 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:39.799 classify primates first and foremost by what type of nose 224 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:43.200 they have. So strepsis for turning in and rhine for 225 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:45.360 nose in Greek, so they have sort of these sort 226 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:48.200 of curlicue noses on their ends the strip serines do. 227 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:52.080 They're also known as the wet nose primates because lemurs 228 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:54.320 have a wet, fleshy tip at the end of their nose, 229 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:56.720 called a wet rhinarium, just like your dog or your 230 00:12:56.759 --> 00:12:59.399 cat would have, whereas the halflarines like us are the 231 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:02.600 dry nose frimemates, And so as that name implies, they 232 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:05.039 have a pretty good sense of smell and are much 233 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:07.480 more sensitive to odors than we humans are. 234 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:10.320 So if I hid a cantelope and you loved cantelope, 235 00:13:10.519 --> 00:13:13.200 could you find the cantelope? You could if you were 236 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:16.480 a ringtailed lemur. According to the twenty twenty one paper, 237 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:21.080 ringtailed leamurs use old faction to locate distant fruit and 238 00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:25.559 researchers launched essentially like an Easter egg hunt with melons, 239 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:28.720 but also hit some melon like objects that the paper 240 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:33.440 called sham cantelopes, and the results our ringtailed friends could 241 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:37.120 sniff out the real cantalope from nearly fifty feet away. 242 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:43.360 When the breeze drifted their direction, the sham telope remained unfound. 243 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:47.120 But also reading the study, I learned that clinotaxis is 244 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:50.320 a term that means to snoot around, sniff in the 245 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:53.360 breeze until you find treasure. Just twitch in your little 246 00:13:53.360 --> 00:13:57.600 snooty snout sniffer. Total little snacky clinotaxis. But it's not 247 00:13:57.679 --> 00:14:01.480 all sweetness or juicy melons. So a twenty eighteen press 248 00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:04.799 publication out of Lydia's own Duke University was titled in 249 00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:08.519 all caps, lemurs can smell weakness in each other, and 250 00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:12.200 it referenced the study costs of injury for scent signaling 251 00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:15.200 in a strep serene primate, and the researchers found the 252 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:18.200 first off, lemurs can get into little tussles, little fights, 253 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:21.279 especially when everyone's hornt up wants to bang. But sometimes 254 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:24.879 when lemurs get intovites. If one male is injured, others 255 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.039 can tell just by his smell, and the paper detailed 256 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:34.240 quote lemur genital secretions were significantly diminished and altered during injury, 257 00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:38.679 so smelling the wounded male's secretions mean he'd be picked 258 00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:41.240 on more because the other males knew he felt like shit. 259 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:45.639 But wait back, I'm sorry, back up, what are what secretions? Oh? Yes, coo. 260 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:50.120 So male and female lemurs have glands in their crotches 261 00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:53.919 that ooze out sexy juices made up of up to 262 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:57.240 three hundred different chemical compounds, and then they rubbed that 263 00:14:57.279 --> 00:15:02.480 stuff on branches like grif. That's a hinge profile. And 264 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:05.639 one researcher at Duke said that this love butter is 265 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:09.519 quite pungent and musky and quote not something you'd want 266 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:12.159 to get a big whiff of. But luckily, as simple 267 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:15.519 nosed haflarines, we wouldn't be able to smell as well 268 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:19.000 as our lemeri wet nosed strip c arine friends, would. 269 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:24.519 We, especially me? And so then within the strip Serines, 270 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:28.080 the lemurs are the sort of most diverse group within 271 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:31.919 the strip Serines, and they live only on Madagascar, but 272 00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:35.480 they're also bush babies or galagos and lorises that live 273 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:38.600 in continental Africa and then over in Asia, and they 274 00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:41.440 belong to the same group the strip Serinds. But monkeys 275 00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:43.200 are all the way over in the half Larines, so 276 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:45.279 they're quite quite divergent from the lemurs. 277 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:47.759 I had no idea, does that come up? A lot. 278 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:50.759 Is that the biggest question that you're having to correct. 279 00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:52.960 Do people just say, look at that monkey with the 280 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:53.399 big eyes? 281 00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:57.320 I would think that was the case maybe about ten 282 00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:00.360 years ago. The other big one for people who study 283 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:03.799 anthropology or primatologies, that chimpanzees are not monkeys. That's a 284 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:05.879 big one. And pop culture that people get cranky about 285 00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:08.840 as well. But I would say right now, the biggest 286 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:11.200 question I get is, quote, do they like to move it? 287 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:11.559 Move it? 288 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:15.039 Iruct, don't move it? Movement? I duck, don't move it movement? 289 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:17.559 That is the Madagascar movie. That is the dance that 290 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:20.200 they do. And I have to clarify that lemurs, in fact, 291 00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:21.759 do not like to move it, move it. 292 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:28.240 This is good to know. And how did they all 293 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:30.639 wind up on Madagascar? 294 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:33.480 Okay, so now we're getting into one of my favorite 295 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:35.840 things on earth to talk about, and you're gonna have 296 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:39.279 to cut me off when I ramble too much. No, never, 297 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:41.960 because actually people usually ask me what's my favorite thing 298 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:44.639 about lemurs, and I say it's the diversity of species 299 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:47.039 and how that diversity came to be because it's actually 300 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:50.200 a rather extraordinary story. And so we have to go 301 00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:53.679 back to Pangaea when all of Earth's land masses were 302 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:57.919 schmushed together in one land mass sandwich, and Madagascar was 303 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:01.759 sandwiched between continental affor in India and was actually attached 304 00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:04.359 to Antarctica as well. And this was of course the 305 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:07.440 age of the dinosaurs. Primates had not yet started evolving, 306 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:11.440 but Madagascar had this connectivity to both continental Africa and 307 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:17.240 to India. And as Pangaea separates, Madagascar separates first from 308 00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:20.079 mainland Africa about one hundred and thirty million years ago 309 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:23.559 and then separates from India about eighty to ninety million 310 00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:26.680 years ago, which means that it's been an island for 311 00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:29.599 eighty to ninety million years, which makes it one of 312 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:33.039 the oldest standing islands that's left around today. And for 313 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:35.400 those of us who learned about the dinosaur extinction and 314 00:17:35.480 --> 00:17:37.720 the rise of the mammals, and like middle school science, 315 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:40.759 you might have the number of sixty five million years 316 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:44.480 ago in your brain. That is the asteroid that killed everything, 317 00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:48.759 and like fire and brimstone and dinosaurs going extinct, and 318 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:51.799 from there, that mass extinction event is what allowed the 319 00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:55.079 mammals to sort of take dominance over the planet, including 320 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:57.839 the rise of the primates. And so we see primate 321 00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:01.400 evolution in the fossil record as really taking off around 322 00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:05.160 fifty five to sixty five million years ago, but Madagascar 323 00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:08.440 had already been an island for fifteen million years, and 324 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:12.400 primate evolution is taking off in mainland Africa. So this 325 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:15.319 big question in lemur biology had always been how did 326 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:18.880 they get to Madagascar because there's this huge time gap 327 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:21.880 in between when primates are evolving in Africa and when 328 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:23.440 Madagascar became an island. 329 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:26.720 So Madagascar kind of chunked off of Africa like a 330 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:30.240 bite out of a cookie. And then India sailed off 331 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:32.920 to its current place as well, but very very slowly, 332 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:36.119 and again roughly ninety million years ago. 333 00:18:36.440 --> 00:18:39.079 And one of the unfortunate things about Madagascar is we 334 00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:42.319 don't really have a great fossil record around fifty five 335 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:45.880 to sixty five million years, this exact window when lemurs 336 00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:48.160 would have first been getting to Madagascar, we don't have 337 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:51.119 a fossil record. So we were all as a community 338 00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:54.160 pretty stumped by this question for a while. And I like, 339 00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:56.079 how I'm calling myself we as if I were part 340 00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:57.920 of this community. This all got done way before I 341 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:00.359 got to college. But I'm going to get by self 342 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:03.720 a little credit here. And so the first thing that 343 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:08.039 happened is people like doctor An Yoder, who use genetics 344 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:11.160 as a sort of a puzzle solving technique, started to 345 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:14.519 ask the question, well, can we place a molecular clock 346 00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:18.119 on the time at which lemurs got to Madagascar by 347 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:22.240 comparing the genes of today's lemurs to their relatives in Africa, 348 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:25.039 say the bush babies or called the Galagos, and can 349 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:27.400 we figure out the date when these guys split from 350 00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:31.160 each other? And also if all lemurs stem from one ancestor, 351 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:34.119 or if we think there were multiple colonizing events. 352 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:37.839 So by looking at their sweet faced bush baby cousins 353 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.839 on the African continent from a molecular genetic standpoint, they 354 00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:45.519 can figure out how many times groups of lamurs I 355 00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:49.039 guess they're called a conspiracy of lemurs came to this 356 00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:53.279 island to then branch off into over one hundred different species. So, okay, 357 00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:56.440 listen up, this is so cool. I love lemur origin 358 00:19:56.559 --> 00:19:57.359 story gossip. 359 00:19:57.880 --> 00:20:01.720 And those data demonstrated a date around fifty eight million 360 00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:05.160 years ago plus or minus. And also that all lemurs 361 00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:08.680 stem from one colonizing event, So we know from genetics 362 00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:11.960 that lemurs got to Madagascar once and it happened about 363 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:14.319 fifty eight million years ago, which is a pretty good 364 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:16.880 window on when we think things were happening. 365 00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:21.559 How far off the coast of mainland is Madagascar. 366 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:24.400 It's a couple hundred miles. Yeah. 367 00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:27.079 Do you have to look to the Galapagos to try 368 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:31.440 to figure out similar islands with a lot of diversity, 369 00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:33.000 Any correlations there? 370 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:35.519 Do you think I think there could be in that island. 371 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:39.240 Systems often operate under similar dynamics. But where we really 372 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:41.279 need to give credit is to a guy named George 373 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:45.319 Gaillard Simpson, who in the nineteen forties, before genetic dating, 374 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:48.000 before all of these sort of modern techniques, said well 375 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.559 what if they rafted? And he came up with this 376 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:55.119 idea of rafting as a way that animals would move 377 00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:58.680 between land masses and across oceans. And so this is 378 00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:01.799 where the genetic data get combined with the ocean current 379 00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:05.960 data with Simpson's hypothesis about rafting and actually help us 380 00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:08.480 tell the story that we think what happened is some 381 00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:12.160 fifty eight million years ago, some small family group of 382 00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:16.160 early primates got washed out into the Mozambique Channel on 383 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:19.359 a giant mat of floating vegetation in the middle of 384 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:22.559 a cyclone, and the way the ocean currents worked back then, 385 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:26.079 it would have blown this vegetative matt from Mozambique over 386 00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:30.400 to Madagascar. And this happened probably once for lemurs, and 387 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:33.240 it's just by luck that they got there. And what's 388 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:36.000 extraordinary as well is that the same thing seems to 389 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:38.880 have happened in more recent history with the rodents, the 390 00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:40.359 ten res, and the carnivores. 391 00:21:40.599 --> 00:21:44.039 Some of those other mammals include a narrow striped mongoose, 392 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:49.000 some flying fox, bats, and ten res which ps. When 393 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:50.640 she said that I didn't know what a tenreck was, 394 00:21:50.680 --> 00:21:53.279 I thought it sounded like a mid size suv like 395 00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:57.799 Hyundai Tenreck. But no, it's a little pointy snouted mammal 396 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:01.400 and their closest relative is an africans. True, So imagine 397 00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:06.079 all these critters' ancestors, each on their own journey, just 398 00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:10.359 swept to see on a plant boat, just hope and 399 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:13.400 for the best. That's some real main character stuff right there. 400 00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:16.400 So there were in fact four rafting events that gave 401 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:20.279