Speaker 1: Oh bed of that air, oh bed of Hello, and
Speaker 1: welcome to the show. This is the Cult of Conspiracy,
Speaker 1: and my name is Jonathan. I'm Jacob, and today Jacob.
Speaker 1: Let the good cult members know what we're gonna be
Speaker 1: talking about today, sir, Well.
Speaker 2: You're going to be talking about oldie but a goodie.
Speaker 2: If you're anybody who has been looking into some of
Speaker 2: the more obscure conspiratorial things, then you've probably heard about
Speaker 2: the man from Torrid. If you haven't, let me paint
Speaker 2: you a picture. All right, it is mid nineteen fifties. Okay,
Speaker 2: let's think about the status of the world right now.
Speaker 2: World War Two just ended a little over a decade ago.
Speaker 2: The world is on the regrowth pattern right now. The
Speaker 2: countries that were involved in World War Two, they're trying
Speaker 2: to change their whole look, a new rebrand, if you will.
Speaker 2: Germany's not trying to be crazy. They're trying to just
Speaker 2: rebuild what they got. Japan had nukes dropped on them,
Speaker 2: They're trying to rebuild what they got, you know. And
Speaker 2: America seen is pretty much the powerhouse of the world.
Speaker 2: And the Cold War's going on right between the communist
Speaker 2: nations and the capitalist nations and all of these things.
Speaker 2: So in certain regards, security measures are at an all
Speaker 2: time high, right, tensions are out of high. But in
Speaker 2: other sections of the world, they're just trying to rebuild.
Speaker 2: They're just trying to grow off of what they got. Okay, now,
Speaker 2: let's take a little trip to Tokyo, Japan in this timeframe.
Speaker 2: This guy pulls up to the airport, just seeming like
Speaker 2: a normal dude. He's trying to get on the plane,
Speaker 2: but he presents a passport that is, first of all,
Speaker 2: very large, like larger than a passport is supposed to be.
Speaker 2: But I mean, you know, depending on what country he
Speaker 2: comes from, maybe the prints that they have in that
Speaker 2: country are a little different than others. And i mean passports,
Speaker 2: although they're supposed to be a pretty generic standard from
Speaker 2: all of the world. At this time, things are kind
Speaker 2: of up in the air a bit. So okay, no
Speaker 2: real red flags off the rip. Then when you read
Speaker 2: this passport it has a country on it that doesn't exist.
Speaker 3: The dude at the.
Speaker 2: Airport is like, I'm sorry, what na sure from? I'm
Speaker 2: from Torrid? Sorry where is Torrid?
Speaker 3: It's in Europe.
Speaker 2: It's been there for a thousand years. We have a
Speaker 2: very long history in the Nation of Torrid. You've never
Speaker 2: heard of the Kingdom of Torrid. Really, bro And the
Speaker 2: guy at the airport's like, I can't say that I have.
Speaker 2: But not only that, this passport is stamped with other stamps,
Speaker 2: meaning this dude has been through like thirty countries in
Speaker 2: the past few years. He is a well traveled man,
Speaker 2: and no other airport thought to stop him and ask
Speaker 2: him about the.
Speaker 3: Nation of Torrid. They just kind of let him go on.
Speaker 2: By long story short, he gets arrested, but they didn't
Speaker 2: arrest him and throw him in jail necessarily. They wanted
Speaker 2: to detain him until they could figure out what is
Speaker 2: really going on here.
Speaker 3: They put him up in a hotel. All this goes on, cool.
Speaker 2: Cool, There's the window to the hotel, I should mention
Speaker 2: doesn't open, there's only one way interer out and they
Speaker 2: actually put security guards by the door to make sure
Speaker 2: this guy doesn't you know, get out of there, because
Speaker 2: forgery was a big thing during this time, right, Like
Speaker 2: I said, Cold War shit, spy things going on, so
Speaker 2: they don't want this dude, who might be some sort
Speaker 2: of international spy to just dip out.
Speaker 3: They're wondering what the hell's going on here.
Speaker 2: The next morning, when the officials come and knock on
Speaker 2: the door, he's on his bed, is made. There's no briefcase,
Speaker 2: there's no suitcase, there's no nothing. There's no sign that
Speaker 2: anyone even stayed in this hotel room that night. The
Speaker 2: security guards get chastised for letting this guy escape, and
Speaker 2: you're like, sir, we were posted up all night and
Speaker 2: neither of us slept, and this door is the only
Speaker 2: way out. He didn't leave. This is still, to this
Speaker 2: day an unsolved case. The man has never been heard
Speaker 2: from again. Jonathan, have you ever heard of this?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: I haven't, but I'm fucking here for it.
Speaker 3: Baby.
Speaker 1: This is the kind of shit. This is right up
Speaker 1: our alley.
Speaker 3: There is. Now.
Speaker 2: There's a few hypotheticals that have been proposed about what
Speaker 2: happened on this fateful day and to this specific gentleman.
Speaker 2: Some say that, you know, he was actually an air
Speaker 2: National spy and because of that, his spycraft allowed him
Speaker 2: to be able to escape, escape that room, and he
Speaker 2: went back to whatever country he's from. Another says perhaps
Speaker 2: parallel universe Mandela effect.
Speaker 3: Time warp type of situations.
Speaker 2: Okay, another One is saying that perhaps he was actually
Speaker 2: an alien and he was taken from his hotel room
Speaker 2: back to the ship in the night, just without a trace,
Speaker 2: blink of a night kind of shit. Another says that
Speaker 2: in reality, the guards were in on it. They were
Speaker 2: paid off and it was That's something, dude. The more
Speaker 2: you break it down, the more questions happen.
Speaker 3: Here.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm most inclined to believe right now without
Speaker 1: you know, more information, is that the guards had to
Speaker 1: have been in on something. Like I trust me. I
Speaker 1: want to believe that aliens and interdimensional travel and you know,
Speaker 1: like the woo woo, all the crazy, the ufology type shit.
Speaker 1: I'm always here for it, but like I like, I
Speaker 1: want to be truly convinced of it rather than just
Speaker 1: believing it.
Speaker 3: You know, I hear this, I really do.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 2: When I first stumbled onto this story, I was kind
Speaker 2: of doing a little prodding, a little digging. A few
Speaker 2: names came up that I didn't really understand. This was like,
Speaker 2: this didn't make sense. The nation of Torrid obviously doesn't exist,
Speaker 2: but when they asked to point to it on a map,
Speaker 2: he pointed to a specific spot called Andorra have you
Speaker 2: ever heard of andorra uh No, I don't think so small.
Speaker 3: Principality between France and Spain.
Speaker 2: And when I say small, I mean like a speck
Speaker 2: on the map that unless you knew what you were
Speaker 2: looking for, you would never see it.
Speaker 3: Kind of thing.
Speaker 2: I gotta put a map of it pulled up and
Speaker 2: come to find out, there actually is a place called Torrid.
Speaker 3: But we're gonna get to all of it in due time.
Speaker 2: So let me go ahead and share the screen, and
Speaker 2: we are going to break this story down a god
Speaker 2: a couple of little clips that we're gonna play. I
Speaker 2: got some articles that are gonna play some historical background,
Speaker 2: and still this is considered an unsolved case allegedly. So
Speaker 2: for any good cult member that would like to see
Speaker 2: what we are talking about rather than just hear about it, Jonathan,
Speaker 2: where can they go?
Speaker 1: Patreon dot com slash Cult of Conspiracy podcast. That is
Speaker 1: the best way to be able to support the show.
Speaker 1: We appreciate all the good cult members who have already done.
Speaker 1: So if you go over there, you'll have access to
Speaker 1: getting the shows a few days in advance. You'll be
Speaker 1: able to slide into our dms, You'll be able to
Speaker 1: see all of the video. That's the only place that
Speaker 1: it's up. And but let's be honest, main reason why
Speaker 1: most people go over to Patreon is because it is
Speaker 1: absolutely kick them nasty ads, baby girl, get out of
Speaker 1: here with that bullshit. You tired of skipping on your
Speaker 1: phone listening to Spotify or Apple podcasts or anything. I
Speaker 1: get it. Nobody likes ads. There's not a single person
Speaker 1: in history that has said I need more ads. Nobody
Speaker 1: says that, And so because they are somewhat, well more
Speaker 1: than somewhat of a nuisance, then go over to That's
Speaker 1: why we created Patreon. You know, we would be up
Speaker 1: on YouTube, but we got kicked off four times and
Speaker 1: we're not playing that game anymore. Okay, Patreon has allowed
Speaker 1: us to voice our free speech and we can say
Speaker 1: whatever the fuck we want, like Kamala Harris is a whore,
Speaker 1: and nobody gets ansored. It's great, It's so much fun.
Speaker 1: If you like free speech, you like being able to
Speaker 1: speak your mind, You like being able to listen to
Speaker 1: people that you know, damn well are not censored and
Speaker 1: never will be censored. Patroon dot com, slash Cult of
Speaker 1: Conspiracy podcast.
Speaker 2: Indeed, and of course if you do sign up for
Speaker 2: that third as all the way open tier. You get
Speaker 2: to join us every Tuesday night at nine pm Central
Speaker 2: for the cult member Live is a family unit. It
Speaker 2: is a collective, cohesive group. And you know what, Jonathan,
Speaker 2: I'm just saying the community that we have developed for ourselves,
Speaker 2: our cult. Everybody wants to say that we are X,
Speaker 2: Y and Z things. We're racists, we're biggots, we're homophobes,
Speaker 2: or this, we're this. We have a resident Jewish correspondent,
Speaker 2: a resident trans correspondent, a resident furry correspondent.
Speaker 3: We got them in all shapes and colors over here.
Speaker 2: If anything, we might be the most equal opportunity and
Speaker 2: inclusive cult of conspiracy community that I've ever fucking heard of.
Speaker 1: And nobody gets but hurt whenever we call things fake
Speaker 1: and gay.
Speaker 3: No one does.
Speaker 2: Not one person has gotten offend and said, Hey, actually, guys,
Speaker 2: I really didn't appreciate the way you said that. No
Speaker 2: one except that one gypsy guy. But also that that's
Speaker 2: because I commit to the bit a little too hard sometimes.
Speaker 1: But like it's all good. No, no gypsy is out
Speaker 1: there things that I'm actually hurt, like hating on them,
Speaker 1: except that one Ascabo guy too. You know, he didn't
Speaker 1: appreciate that.
Speaker 3: About that the Inuits, excuse me, not the.
Speaker 1: Eskimos, the Innuits, because you called them savages.
Speaker 2: That was a direct quote. They were calling them that.
Speaker 2: I didn't do that. The Vikings did. But yes, fair
Speaker 2: they called them wild people that were untamable, And it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, that's another weird point. The Vikings wren this
Speaker 2: whole conquest of like conquering Greenland and conquering this and whatever.
Speaker 2: They went to islands that had no one living there
Speaker 2: and took them over. The first time they met some
Speaker 2: people with some bows and arrows, They're.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, gotta get out of here. These people are crazy.
Speaker 2: It's like, cause you met resistance, bro, these are the
Speaker 2: same people, allegedly the same like Viking crowd.
Speaker 3: They're like took over Paris and shit all of a sudden.
Speaker 3: Some anyway, anyoney.
Speaker 1: No, It's like everybody has their own version of like
Speaker 1: their own definition of crazy. You know, Like you ever
Speaker 1: talk to somebody and their ex is always the craziest
Speaker 1: person that they've ever met in their life, Like everybody
Speaker 1: has one of those. It's like, damn, somebody has to
Speaker 1: have the craziest one, right, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, I feel like we've seen those on like true
Speaker 2: crimes or like was that one broken where like the
Speaker 2: chick loser minds like stabs her husband and death the
Speaker 2: bunch times, like you know what that guy might have
Speaker 2: had the craziest x rip Like there you go, you know?
Speaker 3: Anyway, All right, back to the point.
Speaker 2: Got a little short clip here, Let's learn the overarching
Speaker 2: story of the man from tourd.
Speaker 4: Nineteen fifty four, a man arrived at Tokyo's Haneda Airport
Speaker 4: with a passport from a country no one had ever
Speaker 4: heard of, Torred. His passport looked authentic, with stamps from
Speaker 4: countries across Europe. Confused authorities questioned him, but he insisted
Speaker 4: that Tord was real and locate between France and Spain.
Speaker 4: When shown a map, he pointed to Andorra, but was
Speaker 4: baffled that it wasn't labeled as Tauret. To make things stranger,
Speaker 4: the man disappeared from a locked hotel room overnight, leaving
Speaker 4: no trace. Some suggest he was a time traveler or
Speaker 4: from a parallel world. The case remains unsolved to this day.
Speaker 4: What's your theory?
Speaker 2: All right, now, let's get into it. I got a
Speaker 2: couple of little articles here. I'm gonna do my best
Speaker 2: to not let them repeat each other. But as far
Speaker 2: as the overarching story goes, that is displayed on a
Speaker 2: good bit of them. But here we go, let's get
Speaker 2: into it here. This one is from Michelle Gargillo.
Speaker 3: Gargio, there you go, Gargio.
Speaker 2: I don't know, and it's the man from Taured the
Speaker 2: airport mystery.
Speaker 3: No one can explain.
Speaker 1: Spooky season is here. So I'm doing my best to
Speaker 1: retell all of my favorite mysteries. This is one of
Speaker 1: my all time favorites. When in the summer of nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty four, a well dressed man stepped off a plane
Speaker 1: at Henita a Report in Tokyo with a crisp little
Speaker 1: passport from nowhere. He was fluent in French and Japanese
Speaker 1: and had a story that made no damn sense. His
Speaker 1: passport was from a country called Torrid. In case you're
Speaker 1: as bad at geography as me, that's a country that
Speaker 1: doesn't exist, not then, not now, and definitely not on
Speaker 1: any map we've ever seen. When Japanese authorities tried to
Speaker 1: figure out where he was really from, he confidently pointed
Speaker 1: to a spot between France and Spain. The officials told
Speaker 1: him that it was a country called Andorra. He was confused,
Speaker 1: even irritated, and he insisted that he had never heard
Speaker 1: of Andorra. He was from Torrid and his country had
Speaker 1: existed for over a thousand years. Wow, what an empire.
Speaker 1: And then while the authorities were trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what to do with the man, just like that, the
Speaker 1: man and his mystery disappeared.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: I should tell people now not to give away too much,
Speaker 2: but the fact that he was fluent in French and
Speaker 2: Japanese put a pin in that one for Way Way, Way,
Speaker 2: lif La. It's gonna come into play, I promise, But
Speaker 2: for now it's still just this wild mystery that no
Speaker 2: one can solve.
Speaker 1: The story goes like this. In July nineteen fifty four,
Speaker 1: traveler arrived in Tokyo on a routine business flight. He
Speaker 1: looked European ish, wore a neatly tailored suit, and seemed
Speaker 1: completely at ease with his traveling experience until Japanese custom
Speaker 1: officers flagged his passport. His passport said that it was
Speaker 1: from a country called Torrid. The document looked genuine. It
Speaker 1: even had stamps from previous travels, including from Japan. He
Speaker 1: even had official looking currency from various European countries and
Speaker 1: a checkbook from a bank no one could find in
Speaker 1: any directory. When officials asked him to point out Torrid
Speaker 1: on a map, he placed his finger on the border
Speaker 1: between France and Spain. Rate where Andorra is, But he
Speaker 1: didn't recognize Andorra. He said he'd never even heard of it.
Speaker 1: His country, Torrid, he insisted, had been there for over
Speaker 1: a thousand years. This wasn't a vague answer someone who
Speaker 1: is living in a made up story might give. He
Speaker 1: was pretty specific. He was even confident, and seemed genuinely
Speaker 1: annoyed at their confusion the question. They questioned him further
Speaker 1: to try and make more sense of it. Where was
Speaker 1: he going, who was he meeting? Did he have contacts
Speaker 1: in Japan?
Speaker 3: All very valid questions.
Speaker 1: He gave names of a Japanese company he claimed to
Speaker 1: be doing business with, a hotel he had reservations at,
Speaker 1: and a bank he worked with. Authorities followed up with
Speaker 1: a followed up while he was being held. Oddly, none
Speaker 1: of it existed. The company existed, but had no record
Speaker 1: of him working with them. The the hotel had never
Speaker 1: heard of a reservation and had nothing saved in his name.
Speaker 1: The bank didn't exist anywhere in this world anyway, so
Speaker 1: they detained him for further questioning, intending on getting to
Speaker 1: the bottom of this. But that's where things he had
Speaker 1: even weirder. Since his story didn't add up, officials put
Speaker 1: him in a hotel room under god under guard. He
Speaker 1: wasn't arrested, but he was essential under surveillance. Two immigration
Speaker 1: officers reportedly stayed outside his door all night, and yet
Speaker 1: by morning he was gone. The guards never saw him leave.
Speaker 1: The door had not been opened, the windows were sealed shut,
Speaker 1: and they were on a high floor with no balcony
Speaker 1: or no way of jumping down. His personal belongings, such
Speaker 1: as a passport, documents, wallet, checkbook, briefcase, had all vanished too.
Speaker 1: No one ever saw him again. He was just gone,
Speaker 1: like he slipped back into whatever parallel timeline he came from.
Speaker 2: Indeed, so let's talk a little bit about what was Torrid.
Speaker 3: Supposed to be.
Speaker 1: When the man pointed to the Pyrenees, he was essentially
Speaker 1: showing the modern day location of Andorra, a real and
Speaker 1: tiny country that's been around since the twelve hundreds That's
Speaker 1: part of what makes the story so compelling to me.
Speaker 1: His claim wasn't outlandish geographically, but the name was completely foreign.
Speaker 1: He said Torred had existed for over a thousand years
Speaker 1: and that it was a respected nation. He'd claimed that
Speaker 1: he'd done business in Japan before, and he was shocked
Speaker 1: that they were giving him a hard time. One theory
Speaker 1: suggests that maybe he was from a version of reality
Speaker 1: where Andorra was called toward that in his world everything
Speaker 1: looked basically the same until he accidentally crossed over into ours. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Wild, Now I should mention this as well. Right now.
Speaker 2: He said he had done business in Japan before. His
Speaker 2: passport had shown that he had come to and from
Speaker 2: Japan in recent years, so that wasn't made up either.
Speaker 2: They at one point in time, he absolutely got off
Speaker 2: the plane at the Japanese airport, got stamped in, did business,
Speaker 2: and left. This was his second or third trip back
Speaker 2: to Japan at least, so again he knew the hotel. Now,
Speaker 2: they couldn't find any kind of reservation to him, but
Speaker 2: the hotel existed. The company that he claimed that he
Speaker 2: was doing business with was absolutely a real company. But
Speaker 2: nobody at any of these locations, ever heard of this man,
Speaker 2: or had dealings with him, or had ever received money
Speaker 2: from him or anything like this.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I'm trying to figure out like what I
Speaker 1: believe about dimensions, you know what I mean? Like sure,
Speaker 1: you know, because some people will say that, you know,
Speaker 1: all dimensions are because it's not just about the dimensions,
Speaker 1: you know, you hear Anthony the Reptilian chandeler. He goes, No,
Speaker 1: it's also densities too. There's different levels of densities within
Speaker 1: each dimension. Is basically talking about like the different frequencies
Speaker 1: of each dimension whatever. Right, And so does that mean
Speaker 1: that like if someone were to live in this reality,
Speaker 1: the one that we are currently in at this moment,
Speaker 1: if they were to jump to another dimension, would it
Speaker 1: look just like this? Would everything be basically the same,
Speaker 1: but just you know, a couple of Mandela effects here
Speaker 1: and there.
Speaker 2: I guess it's it's all up into the imagination, right. So,
Speaker 2: Like let's say right now, you woke up to you're
Speaker 2: still you, You still got all the same tattoos, you have,
Speaker 2: your your phone is exactly where you left it, whatever.
Speaker 2: But you get in your car and you turn on
Speaker 2: the radio station and it's already pre programmed to some
Speaker 2: radio station you've never heard of before, and there are
Speaker 2: songs playing that you've never heard of before from an
Speaker 2: artist that you have heard of, like Snoop's new album,
Speaker 2: and it's like, wait, I'm sorry, did I miss something here?
Speaker 2: It's been at the top of the jar for the
Speaker 2: last three months. Here's Snoop Dogg And it's like, wait,
Speaker 2: oh he hasn't What the fuck are you talking about?
Speaker 2: But like, okay, maybe you found like a retro channel
Speaker 2: or some shit like that.
Speaker 3: You move on.
Speaker 2: Then you go to go grab your local, you know,
Speaker 2: your cup of Joe in the morning, and you get
Speaker 2: there and it's Comic Dollars, not Starbucks, and you're like,
Speaker 2: what what the hell is comic dollars?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: And then they're like, you've never heard of the international
Speaker 2: coffee chain Comic Dollars.
Speaker 3: I think you're a little crazy there.
Speaker 1: Bro, So you're to believe that it's something like that.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, how what would you do? How would
Speaker 2: you feel if that was the case. Now, everything else
Speaker 2: is the same, street lights are the same, the city
Speaker 2: you're in is the same. It's still called Actually I
Speaker 2: don't know what city you're currently in Okay Lake Havasu.
Speaker 2: All that's the same. Everything, the culture is the same,
Speaker 2: all the stuff. It's just these weird, little nuanced differences
Speaker 2: that you're just like, I'm not crazy. That's always been
Speaker 2: Starbucks Snoop hasn't been relevant in the music scene for
Speaker 2: quite some time. What the what are you talking about here?
Speaker 2: And you just do you just kind of accept that
Speaker 2: this is reality and you're just like, huh, maybe I'm
Speaker 2: a little crazy, or do you actually fight that fight
Speaker 2: and tell people, no, you're crazy?
Speaker 3: I know, I'm right.
Speaker 1: No, I'm not gonna sit here and say that that's
Speaker 1: a crazy thing to throw out there, because I believe
Speaker 1: in some weird shit, you know. So I'm inclined to
Speaker 1: believe that all of this reality is somewhat of a
Speaker 1: malleable dream in some form or some form or fashion. Right,
Speaker 1: So to say that we can jump from another dimension
Speaker 1: of this same reality to a slightly different, you know,
Speaker 1: version of the same reality. Why not?
Speaker 2: You know, bro, what if you woke up tomorrow and
Speaker 2: all of our cars were like the British and the
Speaker 2: steering wheel was on the opposite side, and we had
Speaker 2: to start driving on the left side of the road.
Speaker 2: That was the only difference, Bro, I would crash in
Speaker 2: the first day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I was just thinking, you know, my dog's
Speaker 1: name is Fatty. What if I woke up and his
Speaker 1: name was Skinny, I'd be like, what, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: What is going on? What twilight zone are we in
Speaker 1: right now?
Speaker 3: Exactly something.
Speaker 2: When we get to this dude from Torrid, he okay,
Speaker 2: is it possible that he was on a business trip
Speaker 2: from Torrid and had a little time warp jump that
Speaker 2: he wasn't actually aware of on the plane ride over.
Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, he just he took him
Speaker 3: a little snooze on the plane.
Speaker 2: When he woke up, there were some slight differences, but
Speaker 2: not enough that would really catch his eye until he
Speaker 2: got off the plane and tried to have this business
Speaker 2: deal and the company didn't have any record of him
Speaker 2: or whatever.
Speaker 3: He says like fuck this, and I'm going back home.
Speaker 3: And now he's getting.
Speaker 2: Some guff over at the airport and he's like, Bro,
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to get home, Like what the hell?
Speaker 2: Or is there something more the theory is happening here?
Speaker 2: Is there more to the story on the back end?
Speaker 2: And all of this has been a play because your
Speaker 2: boy's riding dirty.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess anything's possible. I mean, I just
Speaker 1: I you know, I'm pretty sure that there's a little
Speaker 1: bit more to the story than you know, what we've
Speaker 1: talked about. So on the surface, I'm just like, all right,
Speaker 1: I need more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel that, let's get into it.
Speaker 1: So there are theories about what really happened. There are
Speaker 1: five main explanations people toss around on the interwebs together.
Speaker 1: Number one is that it's an urban legend and an
Speaker 1: hoax in a hoax, right, It's like, yeah, that's probably
Speaker 1: the easiest thing to assume, I would imagine, right, sure,
Speaker 1: Like if a story is too crazy, usually it's somewhat
Speaker 1: of a little campfire story, you know. Yeah, yeah, But
Speaker 1: it says this is the most grounded theory that seems
Speaker 1: the most believable. There's no official record of this event,
Speaker 1: not from the Japanese government, not from the airport, not
Speaker 1: even in contemporary news archives. Most references to the story
Speaker 1: pop up in paranormal books or Internet forums long after
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four. So it could have started out as
Speaker 1: a bar story, a retelling of someone's dream, or an
Speaker 1: urban myth that got juicier every time it was shared.
Speaker 1: Think of it like the Mandela effect, but with a
Speaker 1: protagonist and a passport.
Speaker 3: That's a possibility for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, I mean I would like to know what
Speaker 1: the source is, like the main source, you know, like
Speaker 1: nobody in Japan. I mean that's where he was detained at,
Speaker 1: Like you would think that that's where the story came from.
Speaker 2: It is, as a matter of fact, But we're gonna
Speaker 2: get to the why there's no official record of it
Speaker 2: later on. But for those out there that are saying
Speaker 2: that this is complete hoax and it's just made up
Speaker 2: and it's just internet lore that got okay, I can
Speaker 2: at least understand why they would believe that. But there
Speaker 2: is in fact, much much more to the story and
Speaker 2: to the man in question.
Speaker 1: Only reason I say that is is that you know,
Speaker 1: I've been doing a fair amount of biblical study here
Speaker 1: over the past couple of days, just on my road
Speaker 1: trip to Arizona, and you know, most of most people
Speaker 1: would agree that there has to be some form of
Speaker 1: of a q source is what they call it, right
Speaker 1: as far as like the Four man Gospels of Matthew,
Speaker 1: Mark Luke, and John Right that I think was it. Mark,
Speaker 1: they say, is the earliest writing, right. I think they
Speaker 1: date that to like seventy somewhere around seventy fifty to seventy.
Speaker 2: So Matthew might be the earliest, but I might be
Speaker 2: getting Matthew and Mark and.
Speaker 1: One of the at whatever. But anyway, they say, well,
Speaker 1: the way that it was written, it was almost as
Speaker 1: if he had gotten that story. The writer of Mark
Speaker 1: or Matthew or whatever. The first book was that he
Speaker 1: had gotten that story from another source, and they call
Speaker 1: that the Q source, right, And so.
Speaker 3: The eyewitness source would be the Q source.
Speaker 1: Sure, sure, yeah, unless it was written down somewhere and
Speaker 1: that's where he got it from. Could have been something
Speaker 1: like that, doesn't even necessarily have to be the eyewitness.
Speaker 1: But maybe it was shared from an eyewitness to another person,
Speaker 1: but it was the original writing of the you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? It could be whatever, but I got you.
Speaker 1: So that's what I'm trying to get at. Is there
Speaker 1: a fucking Q source to this story? You know?
Speaker 3: Indeed? Indeed?
Speaker 1: Okay, So nextly we have the next possibility. Some people
Speaker 1: suggest a delusional traveler could be I mean, people are crazy.
Speaker 1: Can't really put it past people, right.
Speaker 3: Jet lag hit home boy a little harder than the rest.
Speaker 1: Okay, I can't imagine to do what hit his passport though, correct,
Speaker 1: But let's continue. Some speculate this man might have had
Speaker 1: a serious mental health condition, one where he fully believed
Speaker 1: in a country that didn't exist. Schizophrenia or disassociative identity
Speaker 1: disorder could explain the confidence and detail in his answers,
Speaker 1: and maybe the passport was forged or altered to reflect
Speaker 1: his internal reality. But the this doesn't explain how he
Speaker 1: vanished from a guarded room unless the whole story was
Speaker 1: embellished or made up entirely by someone retelling its secondhand.
Speaker 3: This also is true.
Speaker 2: These are very possible, probable, even possibilities out here, But
Speaker 2: there's a little more to it.
Speaker 3: Let's keep going.
Speaker 1: I'm least inclined to believe that one. Next one is
Speaker 1: maybe he's a fucking time traveler, which, hey, you know
Speaker 1: we like time travelers. Hey, if you're already this far
Speaker 1: reading about a man from a non existing country, why
Speaker 1: not crank the weird up to eleven. Maybe he came
Speaker 1: from a different timeline, a future, a past, a sideways
Speaker 1: version of Earth where tord was very much a thing,
Speaker 1: and the Germans won World War Two. Who knows he
Speaker 1: got stuck here for a brief moment and then somehow
Speaker 1: unstuck himself. For the record, time travel is technically allowed
Speaker 1: by the laws of physics under certain theoretical models, and
Speaker 1: I love talking about it in depth, but that's a
Speaker 1: whole nother rabbit hole. If you're a time traveler. Stephen
Speaker 1: Hawking threw you a party that you forgot to go to,
Speaker 1: but I'm guessing you can fix that.
Speaker 2: I actually think, dude, I thought about this a lot,
Speaker 2: the Stephen Hawking party.
Speaker 3: You remember hearing about that.
Speaker 2: I don't so Stephen Hawking before he died, Oh they right,
Speaker 2: I was gonna say rip, but not after we learned
Speaker 2: about him on Epstein Island, which I still don't understand
Speaker 2: what the fuck he got out of it, like he.
Speaker 1: Will nothing because Epstein was the only one that was
Speaker 1: trafficking girls to himself.
Speaker 2: Of course, of course I forgot, I forgot, right, right,
Speaker 2: right right, Even though again understood, Hawking went to the
Speaker 2: island of Bunge and I guess just enjoyed watching wild shit,
Speaker 2: and like again, I don't understand, I don't understand, but
Speaker 2: he was a weird fuck anyway, So he threw a
Speaker 2: party for time travelers, and he made sure to not
Speaker 2: tell anyone about it until like two days later, or
Speaker 2: he like sent something off from the mail, and it
Speaker 2: was gonna be sure to like get out there a
Speaker 2: couple of days after the fact, specifically so that if
Speaker 2: any time travelers are out there, they would have shown
Speaker 2: up to the party because they would have gotten the
Speaker 2: information in the future and had the capabilities come back
Speaker 2: in time to the party.
Speaker 3: For the record, no one showed up.
Speaker 1: Of course, Yeah, but not even your boy John teetor
Speaker 1: or Teeter or whatever his name was.
Speaker 3: No, nobody.
Speaker 2: But I also, I'm just gonna be real, like, if
Speaker 2: I was a time traveler, if I had that capability,
Speaker 2: I had the fucking machine in my garage or whatever,
Speaker 2: you know, I wouldn't be going to his party because
Speaker 2: you understand that at that point everyone knows he's confirmed pedophile. Like,
Speaker 2: why would you want to go to this guy's party?
Speaker 3: Hey?
Speaker 1: First, so what you want to go hang out with
Speaker 1: a guy who is is? Was he paraplegic or quadriplegic?
Speaker 3: Dude, he couldn't even move his jaw.
Speaker 2: He was all the way polegic, like quadriplegic, was anything
Speaker 2: from the neck down.
Speaker 3: Homeboy could only use his brain and blink.
Speaker 1: He was omnipolegic.
Speaker 2: Even still, Like and I heard people say, well, what
Speaker 2: if all the time travelers actually were just like pulling
Speaker 2: a prank on him. I'm like, yeah, we know at
Speaker 2: your party, We're not going there because then that's gonna
Speaker 2: confirm shit.
Speaker 3: We're gonna keep it a secret for a little while longer.
Speaker 3: And it's like, or all of.
Speaker 2: The time travelers knew that he was a convict, confirmed
Speaker 2: convicted pet wee, not convicted he died, but confirmed pedophile,
Speaker 2: and they didn't want to be associated with a piece
Speaker 2: of shit like that. And it's like, you know, or
Speaker 2: or time travel is totally not real. I am of
Speaker 2: the belief that it's probably possible. I just don't think
Speaker 2: we got the tech for it as of this moment.
Speaker 2: But anyway, who knows.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I'm on the fence with time travel.
Speaker 2: I feel like it's probably possible, like realistically, the same
Speaker 2: way that interdimensional travel is probably possible. I don't know
Speaker 2: if the carbon based life form of our body can
Speaker 2: make the trip.
Speaker 1: Actually, I think the time travel is probably real but
Speaker 1: not in the sense that we think it is. So technically,
Speaker 1: you know, like whenever you look at a star, allegedly
Speaker 1: if space is not faking gay, I have to throw
Speaker 1: that disclaimer out. If you look look at a star
Speaker 1: that is like thousands of light years away, what you're
Speaker 1: looking at is not the light that it's currently emitting.
Speaker 3: It.
Speaker 1: You're looking at the light of the thousands of years
Speaker 1: ago that it took for that light to travel, right Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so I mean is that kind of time traveling.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like looking into a crystal ball a little.
Speaker 2: Bit, kind of kind of you're you're taking a snapshot
Speaker 2: of that stars past right now.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's if we are to believe that these
Speaker 1: fucking things are light years away, which you know, my
Speaker 1: mind still can't even fathom that. You know.
Speaker 2: It's like, I mean, a light year is very hard
Speaker 2: for the human brain to wrap around. Like I get that,
Speaker 2: it's not just a youth thing like realistically say saying,
Speaker 2: you know, a qua trillion, that is a hard number
Speaker 2: for us to wrap our minds around to even to Yeah,
Speaker 2: I get it.
Speaker 3: We're talking it's like an infinity that is so much.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean it's infinite, like you can't even
Speaker 1: count it. But it's like, you know, they're saying that
Speaker 1: Elon is about to be They always say that he's
Speaker 1: like the world's richest man. Get the fuck out of
Speaker 1: here with that, not anymore. Well, only reason I say
Speaker 1: that is because they say that he's about to become
Speaker 1: the world's first trillionaire. And I'm like, dude, you know
Speaker 1: how much money of fucking trillion dollars is It's a
Speaker 1: thousand billions. You know how much a billion is, It's
Speaker 1: a thousand millions. So yeah, that's that's a thousand thousand
Speaker 1: fucking million.
Speaker 2: Looking into this, there's a dude that just passed him
Speaker 2: up as being the richest man on earth. I mean,
Speaker 2: business moves. It's it's wild how I guess it's jumped
Speaker 2: up there.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I would assume that it's some Saudi prints bro,
Speaker 1: I mean you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: No, he's look him up as a matter of fact,
Speaker 2: he uh shit, what's his name? And as soon as
Speaker 2: as soon as you say it, I'm gonna be pissed
Speaker 2: off of myself. But yeah, he uh, he's a well
Speaker 2: known guy tycoon type out there. But yeah, he's either
Speaker 2: just passed up Elon or is like about two in
Speaker 2: a matter of a couple of weeks or something like that.
Speaker 3: If the money goes the way it's going.
Speaker 1: You talking about Larry Ellison, that's the guy. Oh that
Speaker 1: makes sense from fucking Oracle yep, okay, yeah, the data collector.
Speaker 1: That guy, yeah makes.
Speaker 2: The data collector that got all the government contracts. Just
Speaker 2: pass up Elon Musk as the richest guy on earth.
Speaker 2: And it's like, really, shout out, I could have seen
Speaker 2: that coming.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Texas where that facility's at, baby.
Speaker 3: And shout out to the government for spying on us,
Speaker 3: which what I.
Speaker 1: Mean does shout out to everybody for allowing the government
Speaker 1: to be okay with spotting on us.
Speaker 3: Big facts, Big facts there.
Speaker 2: Getting off of and back onto topic here for the
Speaker 2: time traveling conversation, I mean for myself personally. Yeah, if
Speaker 2: we're talking about, like it's time travel possible, yo, you
Speaker 2: give me a fifth of whiskey, I'll time travel. I
Speaker 2: will wake up in a whole new time, in a
Speaker 2: whole new place and have no idea how I got there.
Speaker 2: I'm like, that's that's not hard to accomplish. The forward
Speaker 2: time travel, I feel like it's not hard. It is
Speaker 2: that backward that seems to be the issue, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, most people were pretty good at bringing up
Speaker 1: old shit, you know, So I would say that's that's
Speaker 1: kind of like time traveling.
Speaker 2: So is it possible that this guy was a time
Speaker 2: traveler that bipped and bopped in an outbro.
Speaker 1: It's not impossible, of course, right Like you can't say no,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, I don't know. Was it
Speaker 1: a possible multiverse slip? I'm actually more inclined to believe
Speaker 1: this over the time travel. This is where things get
Speaker 1: juicier than watermelon in August. There's a theory in quantum
Speaker 1: mechanics called the many world's interpretation that suggests every decision
Speaker 1: spawns a new parallel universe. In some reality, you had
Speaker 1: cereal for breakfast, and another you had eggs, and yet
Speaker 1: another you are the eggs creepy. So maybe this man
Speaker 1: slipped through the seams of his universe and landed in
Speaker 1: ours by mistake, a tiny crack between realities where the
Speaker 1: geography is almost the same but not quite. He tried
Speaker 1: to blend in, but it didn't work, and then the
Speaker 1: universe corrected itself ooopsies all better.
Speaker 2: No, that is a theory that a lot of people
Speaker 2: have proposed. As far as the man from toward is concerned.
Speaker 1: I'm actually one that believes in the many worlds interpretation.
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: if we are to believe, you know, just my suggestion
Speaker 1: that this could be some And I don't even mean
Speaker 1: to say dream. It's just the closest thing that I
Speaker 1: can get to describing what I think it is. But
Speaker 1: I believe that it's probably most likely that the only
Speaker 1: reason I say this is because I think that the
Speaker 1: entire universe is mental. And that's like the that's the
Speaker 1: first law or the first principle of hermetics hermeticism, right,
Speaker 1: is that all is mental, essentially saying that you know,
Speaker 1: everything comes from consciousness, not the other way around. Right,
Speaker 1: And so I guess it wouldn't really be that crazy
Speaker 1: that literally every frame of your reality, you're jumping from
Speaker 1: one reality to another, to another to another, and dependent
Speaker 1: upon your vibe, your frequence, see your vibration, whatever people say, right,
Speaker 1: your energy, that that will determine the reality that you
Speaker 1: are in in that moment. And why they always say
Speaker 1: all the mystics and the enlightened individuals have always said
Speaker 1: that the most important time is the present, because if
Speaker 1: you're thinking about the future, I mean, you're kind of
Speaker 1: you're not You're never going to be in the future,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. You can never exist in
Speaker 1: the future, and you can never exist in the past.
Speaker 1: And so if you're constantly jumping from you know, place
Speaker 1: to place, frame by frame, and we just kind of
Speaker 1: see it as linear happening, I don't know. I've done
Speaker 1: way too many psychedelics, That's the truth of it.
Speaker 3: No, No, I get it.
Speaker 2: I get it, and I understand the conversation of the
Speaker 2: multiverse and the possibility that this dude was a accidental
Speaker 2: multiverse traveler that did not intend to be, or possibly
Speaker 2: he's more of like a doctor Strange type dude and
Speaker 2: absolutely meant to jump into and out of this parallel
Speaker 2: multiverse situation.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the timestone, I mean, it's very possible, dude, I
Speaker 2: don't know, But that is one that we'll here proposed
Speaker 2: by a couple of other uh, you know, articles and
Speaker 2: things as we move on, and then we get to
Speaker 2: the fifth possibility.
Speaker 1: The fifth possibility would be a government cover up. Of course,
Speaker 1: some people believe the story was real and erased as
Speaker 1: per usual odd things that the government gets its hands into,
Speaker 1: that the authorities knew something weird had happened, and that
Speaker 1: maybe he wasn't even the first, or maybe he said
Speaker 1: something dangerous, or maybe his documents couldn't be explained with
Speaker 1: our current understanding of physics. Someone or so someone higher
Speaker 1: up made it disappear. You'd think if they were going
Speaker 1: to cover it up, though, they'd be better at scrubbing
Speaker 1: the story entirely. But who knows. The government always has
Speaker 1: a way of hiding things in plain sight. That is true, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is. I mean, I don't know if there's any
Speaker 1: way that you can fully erase. I mean, there's probably
Speaker 1: a way that they'd be able to erase it, but
Speaker 1: people jop things down.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But in the nineteen fifties, right, keep this in mind,
Speaker 2: this is before they had computers. Everywhere was still they
Speaker 2: were putting in data entry logs by hand.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in pin into books, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So it's I could understand and I could make sense
Speaker 2: of it. Like, Okay, dude comes up with a fake passport,
Speaker 2: that's not a good sign. We detain him, and he escaped.
Speaker 2: And keep mind this Japan after World War Two, they're
Speaker 2: still trying to show the world they're not imperial Japan.
Speaker 2: They're the more capitalist and industrial Japan. They're a whole
Speaker 2: new Japan. And they already can't keep their hands on
Speaker 2: a guy. This ain't even like some sort of international criminal.
Speaker 3: They don't know what he is. But he just was
Speaker 3: able to give them the slip. It's a little embarrassing.
Speaker 2: I could imagine a world where they covered it up
Speaker 2: just to be like, well, if we get some dude
Speaker 2: out there doing some criminal activity, we'll know this is him,
Speaker 2: but other than that, we're going to keep this under
Speaker 2: wraps for now.
Speaker 3: And he never turned back up, so it just kind
Speaker 3: of stayed under wraps, like they didn't know.
Speaker 1: They didn't want anybody to know that they were that incompetent.
Speaker 3: Yes, I could see that as a possibility.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 1: So here's the thing. It doesn't even matter if it's true.
Speaker 1: The story feels real in the way that great the
Speaker 1: great myths do it. It's got all the elements that
Speaker 1: I love, mystery, bureaucracy, frustration, and then vanishing. It speaks
Speaker 1: to the idea that reality might not be as fixed
Speaker 1: as we think. One hundred percent agree on that part
Speaker 1: that someone could show up in your city tomorrow claiming
Speaker 1: to be from a place that you've never heard of,
Speaker 1: and genuinely believe it that your entire understanding of the
Speaker 1: world could be challenged by one quiet person with a
Speaker 1: wrong looking passport. It's unsettling, and I like unsettling. I
Speaker 1: also like to believe that there are still mysteries left
Speaker 1: in the world that Google can't explain in point four seconds.
Speaker 1: Makes my life feel more spicy and exciting. Big facts, But.
Speaker 2: Now, is there any proof to this though hard, factual
Speaker 2: evidence that we could look at right now?
Speaker 1: The short answer is not really. There are no verifiable documents,
Speaker 1: no scan pass, no official statement from Japanese authorities. Every
Speaker 1: version of the story is a retelling from books like
Speaker 1: the Directory of Possibilities that was written in eighty one
Speaker 1: or the Little Giant Encyclopedia of Unexplained Facts. Interesting. Even
Speaker 1: Snopes doesn't touch it, probably because there's nothing concrete to debunk,
Speaker 1: so we're left with folklore in Internet archaeology, I get
Speaker 1: why this story triggers curiosity and a little paranoia. It's
Speaker 1: a perfect thought experiment. What if someone slipped into our
Speaker 1: world with no way back. What if they're reading this
Speaker 1: right now trying to figure out how to return, or
Speaker 1: maybe they did return and they're telling your story over there. Ooh,
Speaker 1: I like that. Why about the girl from Philadelphia who
Speaker 1: swears her flower used to be different? It remembers a
Speaker 1: world where tomatoes tasted like something. Dude, whoever wrote this
Speaker 1: article definitely smoked a big fat dube, because that's whenever
Speaker 1: the creative juice is just get flowing, you know, for
Speaker 1: this last shit?
Speaker 3: I like her?
Speaker 1: Yeah, shout out. We don't always need proof to enjoy
Speaker 1: the mystery. Sometimes the best stories are the ones that
Speaker 1: leave us with more questions than answers. Big facts, dude.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, So before we go any further, Yes, I know
Speaker 2: you need more information on this, and I agree, But
Speaker 2: as of this moment, tell me what your vibe is.
Speaker 3: Where are you at with everything?
Speaker 1: I can't tell you what I think yet because I
Speaker 1: do need more, but I can tell you what I
Speaker 1: hope is true.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I hope that he slipped into this reality somehow. And
Speaker 1: the only reason I say that is is because and
Speaker 1: I'm you know, maybe I'm crazy for even believing this
Speaker 1: original story. But you know, I used to soak up
Speaker 1: a lot of Dolores Cannon's videos and books and all
Speaker 1: of her teachings and stuff like that. Right, And she
Speaker 1: talks about that there was I think, I don't know
Speaker 1: if she got this from somebody that she was giving
Speaker 1: a past life regression to, or maybe somebody told her
Speaker 1: this story. But the story goes that there was a
Speaker 1: woman that was getting ready to go to work, but
Speaker 1: her friends asked her or no, she was getting ready
Speaker 1: to go to a funeral. That's what it was. She
Speaker 1: was getting ready to go to a funeral. But her
Speaker 1: friends asked her if she wanted to go to the
Speaker 1: like the Kentucky Derby or something like that, right, And
Speaker 1: she was like, ah, you know, I really want to go,
Speaker 1: but I have to go to this funeral, like it's
Speaker 1: somebody important. I can't be missing it or anything. And
Speaker 1: her friends are like, look, come on, just come hang
Speaker 1: out for like an hour. We'll get there like halfway through.
Speaker 1: Nobody's gonna notice. We'll just slide in the back, no
Speaker 1: big deal, right, And because they were planning on attending
Speaker 1: the funeral as well, and she decided, you know, she
Speaker 1: thought about it real hard and she imagined how much
Speaker 1: fun it would be to go to to the Kentucky Derby.
Speaker 1: But then ultimately she decided, you know what, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna go to the funeral. I don't want to risk
Speaker 1: it whatever, right, So she ends up going to the funeral,
Speaker 1: and like two hours later, the friends that invited her
Speaker 1: to go over to the Kentucky Derby said, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I hit believe it, like, like, what are you thinking
Speaker 1: right now? And she's like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Like I've been over this funeral this whole time and
Speaker 1: they're like, no, you were. What are you talking about?
Speaker 1: You were just at the fucking Kentucky Derby with me.
Speaker 1: You just hit big time. And she's like, I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: I've been here this whole entire time.
Speaker 3: I did not go.
Speaker 1: And they're like, I saw you with the big check,
Speaker 1: I saw you with the smile on your face. You
Speaker 1: can't tell me that you were in there. I saw you.
Speaker 1: We talked, we talked about it, and she's like, I
Speaker 1: fucking I don't know what to tell you, like I
Speaker 1: wasn't there, right, And so the moral of the story is,
Speaker 1: could this be a you know, A many world's interpretation
Speaker 1: where because she decided to sit and think about it,
Speaker 1: that it created some kind of alternate you know, life
Speaker 1: or some or some something of the sort to where
Speaker 1: in one version of that reality she actually did go
Speaker 1: to the Kentucky Derby and actually did win all that money,
Speaker 1: and then the version of reality that she chose to,
Speaker 1: which was go to the funeral, she didn't and jack shit.
Speaker 1: So like, I believe that that kind of stuff as possible.
Speaker 2: I want to anyway realize when me and you first
Speaker 2: like started this show together and all the things, and
Speaker 2: I've heard you talk about Dolores Cannon a good bit
Speaker 2: because that is your QHHT past life progression speaking to
Speaker 2: the higher consciousness, these types of things, right, And I
Speaker 2: didn't know much about Dolores Cannon. And I for the record,
Speaker 2: before I say what I'm about to say, please do
Speaker 2: not anybody listening think that I am throwing shade towards
Speaker 2: her or her research or her field of study in
Speaker 2: the hypno space.
Speaker 1: She was just a regular person, dude. She wasn't even
Speaker 1: really like anybody super I mean, she wasn't super famous, no.
Speaker 2: No, But I didn't realize that she had so much
Speaker 2: controversy surrounding her, And I don't mean like conspiratorial, like
Speaker 2: she was a fraudulent checks and like nothing, nothing crazy
Speaker 2: like that. But I wanted to ask you this too.
Speaker 2: For the haters that are like making these articles blasting
Speaker 2: her and saying that she's a fake and this, this
Speaker 2: and this, how much of that do you think is
Speaker 2: just people that are jealous versus how many of that
Speaker 2: do you think are people that just don't believe in anything,
Speaker 2: hypno anything, so anything close to it is just gonna
Speaker 2: be hoke them, and they just were ready to shit
Speaker 2: on it. I mean, it's a she wasn't like the
Speaker 2: most polarizing figure by any means, But the people that
Speaker 2: love her love her.
Speaker 3: The people that don't fucking don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't really understand that, Like why don't you
Speaker 1: just choose not to believe? Why do you gotta throw hate?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like it's okay to say I don't believe in visiting
Speaker 1: a past life. It's okay to say that. But I
Speaker 1: do understand because we were kind of talking about about
Speaker 1: it a little bit before the show. I think whenever
Speaker 1: people are too certain of what something is, you know,
Speaker 1: and and they're talking to somebody who isn't very certain,
Speaker 1: but they keep an open mind. Sometimes those extremely certain
Speaker 1: people just rub people the wrong way, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like I think that it's just something like that,
Speaker 1: like people who are it's like beyond confidence, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's like I know, and it's like
Speaker 1: you can't possibly know. It's like you gotta leave a
Speaker 1: little bit of wiggle room, you know, like at least
Speaker 1: say you're ninety nine point nine percent short. I'd be
Speaker 1: okay with that. But when you say you're one hundred
Speaker 1: percent sure about something, it tends to rub people the
Speaker 1: wrong way. But that being said, I don't I never
Speaker 1: heard of any controversial thing about her. What I mean,
Speaker 1: what are you suggesting?
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting anything. It's from the Internet that I've
Speaker 2: looked up. When it comes to Dolores Cannon and just
Speaker 2: there are some pages that talk about how she was
Speaker 2: a pioneer in her field, and there are those that
Speaker 2: say that she was basically just taking people for a ride.
Speaker 2: And but that even the ones that are saying that,
Speaker 2: they make it seem like she was making these people
Speaker 2: have these crazy hypno sessions because she was suggesting and
Speaker 2: steering their whole thing one way or another. But that
Speaker 2: goes against the very principle of it. And I've done
Speaker 2: a past life regression with you using her principles in
Speaker 2: no way shape or did you steer the conversation in
Speaker 2: any direction.
Speaker 1: No, that's something As a matter of fact, that's like
Speaker 1: one of the main teaching points is to always be
Speaker 1: aware that you're not steering somebody in a certain direction,
Speaker 1: because then what happens is is that then the person
Speaker 1: feels like they lost control over what they're seeing because
Speaker 1: the practitioner that is hypnotizing them is telling the story
Speaker 1: for them, And so you're just gonna throw them out
Speaker 1: of it, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then wasn't there some beef between her daughter
Speaker 3: and her best friend?
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, it's a fucking it's a fucked up story.
Speaker 2: I think that that's where a lot of the internet
Speaker 2: hate comes from, is because this person A in person B.
Speaker 2: And I'm not even saying who started the fire, you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, But on some real levels, they
Speaker 2: started throwing shade at each other. Their collective followings started
Speaker 2: digging up dirt and throwing shade in even deeper ways
Speaker 2: than in the mix. Dolores just kind of gets her
Speaker 2: name trunced through the mud that she never asked for
Speaker 2: nor deserved. I think that's more or less where the
Speaker 2: hate comes from, aside from those that just believe anything
Speaker 2: hypno is just a foolishness and whatever you got.
Speaker 1: The the thing is is that I don't believe that
Speaker 1: she was full of shit, because all you have to
Speaker 1: do is just listen to her. She seems like the
Speaker 1: sweetest old lady you've ever listened to in your life.
Speaker 1: She seems like your fucking grandma, who would like, come in, honey,
Speaker 1: let me make you a sandwich, give me your coat,
Speaker 1: You got anything dirty you need me to wash?
Speaker 4: Like that?
Speaker 1: Kind of like loving grandma. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I'm not inclined to believe that somebody like that is
Speaker 1: scamming people now to I mean, I absolutely believe that
Speaker 1: she believed that people were going to pass lives. Does
Speaker 1: that make her a scammer? I don't think so, right,
Speaker 1: you know, But yeah, as far as the whole so yeah,
Speaker 1: Whenever Dolores died, her daughter took it over. Her daughter's
Speaker 1: name is Julia Cannon. Julia Cannon has a bit of
Speaker 1: a track record and a bit of a criminal history.
Speaker 1: And also even before that, before her mom died, for years,
Speaker 1: Dolores was doing this and Julia didn't want any part
Speaker 1: of it. She thought that it was stupid, she thought
Speaker 1: that it was fake, she didn't believe any of it,
Speaker 1: YadA YadA, right, and then all of a sudden, in
Speaker 1: the last few years, I think, over the course of
Speaker 1: the last you know, seven or eight years that Dolorus
Speaker 1: was alive, she decided to hop on board. But it
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily because she wanted to. It's because she didn't
Speaker 1: have any other direction to go because of her criminal history.
Speaker 1: She couldn't get hired back on for what she actually
Speaker 1: went to school for. She got canceled, bro And so
Speaker 1: she had no other fucking choice but to jump on,
Speaker 1: you know, her mom's bandwagon at that point. And so
Speaker 1: whenever Dolorus died, Julia you know, took the reins on it.
Speaker 1: And Candace kraw Goldman, who I've had, you know, the
Speaker 1: pleasure of speaking to a couple of times on Meta,
Speaker 1: she tells the whole story. Like dude, Dolores would not
Speaker 1: want it to be run like her daughter is running it,
Speaker 1: and anybody that's ever listened to Dolores's daughter talk. Not
Speaker 1: the same vibe, dude, not the same vibe. Like, I'm
Speaker 1: not even interested in talking to her.
Speaker 3: Like it's gonna say, have you ever had her on
Speaker 3: the show?
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be interested in it, really, Yeah, because I
Speaker 1: appreciate Candace's outlook, which is Dolores's best friend, by the way,
Speaker 1: Like who has been there literally for like the last
Speaker 1: twenty five years of Dolores's life, thirty years something like that,
Speaker 1: Like she was actually in the journey with her right, yeah,
Speaker 1: and her daughter. I'm sorry, I think she's a fucking
Speaker 1: con artist.
Speaker 3: Damn.
Speaker 2: But is she still doing the same past life regression
Speaker 2: hit and note therapy that Dolores was.
Speaker 3: Is she's still like sticking to the to the methods.
Speaker 1: She's running the company. I don't know if she's hypnotizing anybody,
Speaker 1: but she's running the company.
Speaker 3: Yeah, damn.
Speaker 1: Which is unfortunately you.
Speaker 2: Get a cult member out there that would like to
Speaker 2: experience one of these past life regressions. Now that you
Speaker 2: are set up in asy, are you going to get
Speaker 2: back on.
Speaker 3: That, bro?
Speaker 1: I am, I am yeah, I mean I would like
Speaker 1: to probably get settled in for you know, two or
Speaker 1: three weeks, but after that, yes, I am into giving
Speaker 1: a past life aggression. And I will say, look, I
Speaker 1: mean people that you know are not even inclined to
Speaker 1: believe in it, but maybe are just a little bit
Speaker 1: curious as to what they're going to expect or what
Speaker 1: they could experience still have crazy experiences. Jacob is you
Speaker 1: know a prime example of that. Like Jacob was able
Speaker 1: to see like a whole crazy past life very detailed.
Speaker 1: Now was it a past life? Who gives a fuck
Speaker 1: if it actually was or if it wasn't what he
Speaker 1: was able to experience. And then the craziest part about
Speaker 1: a past life experience is not even the past life.
Speaker 1: It's the questions that you write down and you you
Speaker 1: give to me. And these are the questions that you
Speaker 1: ask your quote unquote your higher self, right, And they
Speaker 1: were fucking spot on, brother, like like the answer like
Speaker 1: you asked the questions, I asked them to you while
Speaker 1: you were hypnotized. I mean, they were so spot on.
Speaker 1: I was actually shocked because I was like, hold on,
Speaker 1: this guy doesn't believe in it yet he's speaking whether
Speaker 1: you want to call it the higher self or not.
Speaker 1: The answers would lead you to believe that it's coming
Speaker 1: from some higher version of your of yourself, which I
Speaker 1: guess you can call your higher self, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. So anyway, yeah, I'm gonna be opening the backup.
Speaker 1: If anybody's interested in doing that, go to metamistics at
Speaker 1: yahoo dot com. Just created it, so there you go.
Speaker 1: Check it out, dude. And I offer rates lower than
Speaker 1: everybody in the market.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I shopped around after the fact, dude, yours are like,
Speaker 2: what half the cost of anybody close to you by comparison.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The cheapest that I had found was somebody that was
Speaker 1: offering it for four hundred dollars. I do them for
Speaker 1: two hundred bucks.
Speaker 4: Dude.
Speaker 1: Come on now, like literally, I'm I'm I'm cutting the market. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's like because I generally because I genuinely, like,
Speaker 1: genuinely like doing them, you know. So anyway, let's get
Speaker 1: back to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for any of the occult members, I can tell
Speaker 2: you as a former skeptic, but now I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: say I'm a believer of all of the things that
Speaker 2: are involved with it. But if for nothing else, just
Speaker 2: for the fun and the ride of it, it is
Speaker 2: worth your time. It's worth a two hundred faux show.
Speaker 2: Think about living a movie that you're in the movie
Speaker 2: like you're in it. You're not just like in a
Speaker 2: movie they're watching it. No, no, you're in it. You're
Speaker 2: actually in the scenes. Yeah, the smells, the sounds, the tastes,
Speaker 2: all the shit. It was really fucking cool.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and I've and I've heard people say, well,
Speaker 1: that couldn't be your past life. And then some people
Speaker 1: will say, well, what if you know that's you just
Speaker 1: tapped into a story that's part of like the fucking
Speaker 1: the Ether or a part of the Akashic records, that
Speaker 1: maybe it wasn't even your story, but you just tapped
Speaker 1: into the energy of that. And because some people will say,
Speaker 1: especially me, I'm coming into I'm actually about to do
Speaker 1: a show here real soon on meta and it's going
Speaker 1: to be looking into panpsychism, which is very closely related
Speaker 1: to uh pantheism, right, except for instead of all being
Speaker 1: divine and all is like the mind, which I love.
Speaker 1: I love that kind of shit. And so if all
Speaker 1: is the mind, that all you know that there's just
Speaker 1: one giant mind and all we're doing is just looking
Speaker 1: through each individual windows. And we think that it's us,
Speaker 1: but it's not really us. It's just the temporary version
Speaker 1: of us that is looking through this window. But whenever
Speaker 1: we're not this, whenever we're not looking through this window anymore,
Speaker 1: we go back to the all Some would say, maybe hey,
Speaker 1: you go back to heaven. Maybe it's the same thing,
Speaker 1: just different language. Whatever the case may be. Dude, I'm
Speaker 1: here for that shit all day.
Speaker 2: I love it all right, right, So, end of side
Speaker 2: tangent about the past lives and things, but also because
Speaker 2: we're talking about a possible parallel universe jump slash, time
Speaker 2: traveler slash who knows what I felt like? Yeah, we
Speaker 2: could take a little time for that tangent. Anyway, back
Speaker 2: to it. The man from tor it I got a
Speaker 2: quick clip. We're gonna play here, only about three minutes
Speaker 2: of it as a matter of fact, and again they're
Speaker 2: gonna retell the story a little bit and then dive
Speaker 2: into some of the theories about it in the end.
Speaker 3: So let's get into it.
Speaker 5: I've talked about topics regarding parallel universes before in this
Speaker 5: channel that mainly revolved around the idea of the Mandela effect,
Speaker 5: but there had been some unleegedly true stories that have
Speaker 5: risen about people who have traveled from their universe into
Speaker 5: this One. One of these stories is the man from
Speaker 5: Tarred in nineteen fifty four, a man in a business
Speaker 5: suit or after the Tokyo International Airport. His first language
Speaker 5: was French, but he could also speak fluent Japanese. He
Speaker 5: handed over his passport to be stamped, but soon after
Speaker 5: taken away to be asked about where he was from.
Speaker 5: The passport looked like it was real that was issued
Speaker 5: by a country called Tarred, which doesn't exist. Confused, the
Speaker 5: airport employees told the man to point out his country
Speaker 5: on a map, and he put into the principality of Endorra,
Speaker 5: located between the borders of France and Spain. The men
Speaker 5: claimed that Tarred existed for over a thousand years and
Speaker 5: he had never heard of a country called Andorra. He
Speaker 5: said he was in Japan on business, which he had
Speaker 5: done several times before. What was really strange about this
Speaker 5: or that his passport was covered in visa stamps, which
Speaker 5: had confirmed that he had made earlier trips to Japan
Speaker 5: and Are countries using this passport. In addition, he had
Speaker 5: legal Euros with him. He even showed the airport employees
Speaker 5: a driver's license and a checkbook that are both issued
Speaker 5: to him by Tarred. The airport employees were really confused
Speaker 5: at this point, so they decided to keep him in
Speaker 5: a hotel until they could figure out what to do.
Speaker 5: The exit to the hotel room was guarded by two
Speaker 5: immigration officers until the next morning. The next day, the man,
Speaker 5: along with everything he had, somehow completely disappeared from the
Speaker 5: hotel room. This was really puzzling because the door was
Speaker 5: guarded by the officers and the only other exit was
Speaker 5: a window those fifteen stories above a busy street. The
Speaker 5: police department launched a search for the man, but he
Speaker 5: was never found. So the idea that the man came
Speaker 5: from another universe where the country Tarred existed, but somehow
Speaker 5: overnight ended up returning back to his home universe. The
Speaker 5: story itself sounds pretty bizarre, but the only issue with
Speaker 5: it is that there is absolutely no proof that any
Speaker 5: of this actually happened. To this day, there are still
Speaker 5: no official documents that can verify any of the story.
Speaker 5: The story is really only mentioned in the books The
Speaker 5: Directory of Possibilities and Strange but True, Mysterious and Bizarre People.
Speaker 1: Because of lack of evidence.
Speaker 5: This story has really been regarded by most as more
Speaker 5: of just an urban legend rather than a factual account. Still,
Speaker 5: some people have speculated the possibilities of why and why
Speaker 5: not the story could be real. Some argue the reason
Speaker 5: no documentation does this exist is because an airport official
Speaker 5: would not end a report by saying someone completely disappeared
Speaker 5: along with any other trace of their existence, because of
Speaker 5: how ridiculous that would sound. I personally don't think that's
Speaker 5: a very sound argument. On the contrary, some people say
Speaker 5: one of the flaws of the story that the airport
Speaker 5: employees became immediately suspicious of the country named Tarred, which
Speaker 5: is odd because it seems like they would have just
Speaker 5: assumed there was a country they haven't heard of before,
Speaker 5: since no one really knows every single country on Earth.
Speaker 5: But I don't think that was a flaw in the
Speaker 5: story exactly. I think for an airport employee whose job
Speaker 5: is to deal with this kind of stuff on a
Speaker 5: regular basis, it'd probably be very much familiar with many
Speaker 5: more countries, so hearing a country as peculiar as Tarred
Speaker 5: would definitely be a viable reason for them to become suspicious.
Speaker 5: And then there are even some people who put out
Speaker 5: really outlandis speculations such as the man of thestorraping a
Speaker 5: government spy or something.
Speaker 3: So I want to put a.
Speaker 2: Pin in that one as well. That's a really outlandish
Speaker 2: story according to the YouTuber here. But we will get
Speaker 2: to all of this in due time. So again, kind
Speaker 2: of a retelling of it. But again, you heard the story,
Speaker 2: you heard the pieces of it all falling together. Now
Speaker 2: let's read this article from all That's Interesting dot com
Speaker 2: inside the legend of the mysterious Tard Man and why
Speaker 2: some believe he came from a parallel universe.
Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty four, a man allegedly arrived at Henita
Speaker 1: Airport in Tokyo with a passport from Torred, a country
Speaker 1: that doesn't exist. Was he a traveler from another dimension
Speaker 1: or just a small time fraudster trying to sneak into
Speaker 1: the country On a hot summer day in July nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty four, a man arrived at Henita Airport in Tokyo.
Speaker 1: For all intents and purposes, he was on.
Speaker 3: You know Matterfig're going to skip ahead on that.
Speaker 2: We've already read that one, although I should mention this
Speaker 2: is a picture from the passport, but it's an older picture.
Speaker 2: As they keep saying that there's no hardened evidence, there
Speaker 2: is a few things that have come up. As a
Speaker 2: matter of fact, this is a newspaper clipping featuring a
Speaker 2: guy named John Allen Zegris, aka the tard Man. But
Speaker 2: we are going to get to that guy and this
Speaker 2: story in depth on the back end a little bit later,
Speaker 2: So let's continue here just out of curiosity.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on this? So, if somebody was
Speaker 1: to come here from another dimension, would they technically be
Speaker 1: an alien?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 1: Well, like what if they're a human they speak English?
Speaker 2: Right, Like I'm not trying to play the word game here,
Speaker 2: but like, technically speaking, we have an illegal alien problem
Speaker 2: in this country right now?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah you mean yeah, But like by the definition of uh,
Speaker 2: I guess no, because even if we're talking about the
Speaker 2: quote unquote little green men, or like a living being
Speaker 2: from another planet, another galaxy, whatever the case, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: call some human being from another universe, another parallel universe
Speaker 2: if you will, that accidentally time warped over here. I
Speaker 2: don't believe that we would call them an alien so
Speaker 2: to speak. I think we would have to come up
Speaker 2: with a new term for him.
Speaker 1: What if they're from a thousand years in the future,
Speaker 1: but time traveler, but there are a thousand year they're
Speaker 1: from a thousand years in the future, from another dimension,
Speaker 1: and then they step into ours.
Speaker 2: I would then call him a time traveler at that point,
Speaker 2: because it's almost like, all right, think of a back
Speaker 2: to the future. Right back to the future too, whenever
Speaker 2: Doc said, we have this timeline and then this was
Speaker 2: the day that we did this, so we started a
Speaker 2: whole other timeline. But it's still humans, it's still Earth,
Speaker 2: it's still the town, it's still all this. So at
Speaker 2: that point, it's just a time traveler. And he was
Speaker 2: from a different timeline, i e. A parallel universe, but
Speaker 2: it's still our reality, just a different version of it.
Speaker 1: God, I need to get back on back to the future.
Speaker 1: It's been a hot minute since I watched those movies.
Speaker 3: Classes indeed, I am, I like, I will have.
Speaker 1: A dolore in one day.
Speaker 3: Dude, do you know how hard they are getting to find?
Speaker 1: I'm sure.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: Oh God, fuck that.
Speaker 2: Oh I mean, if I'm having one, it's just to
Speaker 2: look at in the garage and laugh at dude, the
Speaker 2: Gremlins were a It's like saying a hugo like, I'm okay,
Speaker 2: I don't need that problem in my life. I like
Speaker 2: having my mental sanity and not having to fuck with
Speaker 2: it at least twice a week just to keep a
Speaker 2: bage running.
Speaker 1: What was that a Plymouth or Dodge or what was that?
Speaker 3: Shit? Who made the Hugo?
Speaker 1: No, the Gremlin?
Speaker 3: Oh, the Gremlin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to say it was like I want
Speaker 1: to say it was.
Speaker 3: I think it was GM. So it might have been
Speaker 3: a Dodge. God, you got me thinking now, Oh not
Speaker 3: the movie.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the Gremlin was made by the American Motors
Speaker 1: Corporate AMC. It was introduced, okay AMC. Oh, that's like
Speaker 1: the holy shit, that's crazy. That's just like the DeLorean
Speaker 1: was an AMC.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wow, what a coincidence. We just bring that both of
Speaker 1: those up like that.
Speaker 3: It is crazy and also it's kind of it's sad.
Speaker 2: Dude, the dude who created the DeLorean, he believed in
Speaker 2: his thing so hard that he was willing to get
Speaker 2: into the drug cartel game to front load the capital
Speaker 2: needed to keep his car company running.
Speaker 3: Old DeLorean rip anyway, Yeah, such a good one. Dude.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sorry, I'm tripping. The Doloorian was a DMC,
Speaker 1: not AMC.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought Delarean Motor Company was its own thing,
Speaker 2: because I know he to my knowledge, he only came
Speaker 2: out with the one model, and whenever it didn't immediately
Speaker 2: sell like hotcakes and shit, he ended up turning to
Speaker 2: running drugs to keep the lights on for his business
Speaker 2: and then got caught up. So not only did his
Speaker 2: company go down, but he went down that way too.
Speaker 3: It was a mess.
Speaker 1: Stop sharing the screen for a second. Let me just
Speaker 1: show this creature, dude.
Speaker 3: Oh god, what creature. I'm afraid of what you're about
Speaker 3: to show?
Speaker 1: Man a kremlin, dude. Yeah, what a beautiful specimen. It's
Speaker 1: it looks one of the most specimens has ever been. Dude,
Speaker 1: I'm see. I'm personally I'm a huge hashbag fan.
Speaker 3: So I with a hatchbag. That's a coop hatchbag. Dog.
Speaker 1: It's a hatchback, though, isn't it. Yeah? Look well kind
Speaker 1: of No, the whole back doesn't open up, just the
Speaker 1: back window. I mean by definition, but I mean that
Speaker 1: bitch is a two seater, Ain't it looks like it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a two seater hatchbag. No, they're seating their seats
Speaker 1: in the back, is there? Yeah, huh.
Speaker 2: I don't even think I've ever seen one like in
Speaker 2: the wild, like in real life, because these things they
Speaker 2: were they were known for exploding.
Speaker 1: Look how fucking gangster that car looks.
Speaker 2: Though I love it, I've never seen a gremlin or
Speaker 2: a picture there of and been like, damn that car
Speaker 2: fucks dude.
Speaker 1: The only reason I say that my my my dad
Speaker 1: was just telling me a story. We were on this
Speaker 1: long road trip. I just as of today, just moved
Speaker 1: to Arizona from Texas. Right, So, me and my dad
Speaker 1: road tripped out to Arizona and he was telling me
Speaker 1: about the time that you know, my aunt, his sister
Speaker 1: used to have a gremlin. I was like, the fuck
Speaker 1: does a gremlin even look like? And I'm looking at
Speaker 1: it and I'm like, well, what a fucking sex piece, right.
Speaker 3: Looks at a Hugo.
Speaker 2: That's another one that you knowing that you get down
Speaker 2: with this, you'll probably get down with a Hugo.
Speaker 3: You'll probably go down a pacer. Uh.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's a Hugo. Not Hugo.
Speaker 2: Well maybe from Pennsylvania where the age is more of
Speaker 2: a suggestion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a Hugo with a y Oh. Man,
Speaker 1: I tells you how much I know, dude. The you
Speaker 1: go fucking dude, the you go fox too.
Speaker 2: I thought you would say that, Oh look up a pacer, Dude,
Speaker 2: you're probably gonna think that bitch fucks too.
Speaker 1: Look at this one.
Speaker 3: This is the new they're bringing it back.
Speaker 1: Let's go, dude, shut up.
Speaker 3: Wow an ev you go.
Speaker 1: I hope that's real.
Speaker 2: I honestly I feel horrible because I honestly thought it
Speaker 2: was pronounced hugo and just these people were being funny
Speaker 2: calling it a Yugo this whole time.
Speaker 3: I had no idea.
Speaker 1: Oh look there's that. There's another AMC. There's a Pace,
Speaker 1: the AMC Pacer. So the Pacer and the Gremlin made
Speaker 1: by the same company.
Speaker 3: They look like it.
Speaker 1: Almost looks like a herst a little bit. Look at
Speaker 1: that fucking back window, dude, that is badass.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Jonathan, you you should have been born
Speaker 2: and like been in your twenties in the eighties.
Speaker 1: Dude, my god, dude, look at this fucking thing. It's
Speaker 1: almost like so dinky. It's like what a Porsche aspires
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 3: Dude, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: No, I'm just saying the Porsche wants to be a
Speaker 1: pacer when it grows up. I'm saying, dude, then you
Speaker 1: throw a little flamage on the sign. Oh mind, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, save some pussy for the rest of us
Speaker 1: after that. I'm just saying, like, it looks really cool.
Speaker 1: Like you don't see interesting cars like this on the
Speaker 1: road anymore.
Speaker 3: There's a reason. How sick that is?
Speaker 1: I mean, am I strange for thinking that's cool?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: No, it's There's two types of people in this world, right,
Speaker 2: But I'm not saying that one's wrong or not like that.
Speaker 2: I usually make that kind of a joke, but no, dude,
Speaker 2: it's like, for instance, you think that the Fox Body
Speaker 2: must things are like their sickest models. I think those
Speaker 2: are their worst models. Oh, there's two types of people
Speaker 2: in this world.
Speaker 1: That Fox body Mustang Fox Yeah, there's no doubt about it.
Speaker 2: I think those are ridiculous looking. But dude, you know what,
Speaker 2: that's what you need. You know, I was looking at
Speaker 2: get in a new the new VW microbus. You know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, the new ones that just came out.
Speaker 2: Those things are sick. You need to get you a
Speaker 2: fuck solid ass pacer with that fat back glass going on.
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that like to be shitty, like
Speaker 2: actually thinking that you would dig that you should.
Speaker 1: Go for it, oh dude. Like currently right now, I
Speaker 1: have a twenty twenty two charger, right, nothing crazy, it's
Speaker 1: a V six. But even driving that, I I almost
Speaker 1: have damn near wet dreams of my old car that
Speaker 1: was a Nissan Versa hatchback. Like that was my favorite
Speaker 1: car of all time. And I even named it, and
Speaker 1: everybody knows what card it's. The toaster is what I
Speaker 1: call it, because it literally looked like a metal toaster
Speaker 1: that you toast bread, you know what I mean. But
Speaker 1: manned that car. It fucked And dude, it was a
Speaker 1: little four cylinder you got like six hundred miles to
Speaker 1: a full tank. It was crazy. We should go ahead
Speaker 1: and get this out of the way.
Speaker 2: Now, every car that we have been talking about, aside
Speaker 2: from the DeLorean, is a known Lemon.
Speaker 1: Just so you know, I'm sure you caught up a
Speaker 1: little bit of course.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those cars we were just looking at are the
Speaker 2: bad guys from that the Lemons. They are trying to
Speaker 2: like take out blight and McQueen and Materer and all
Speaker 2: those you go, Pacer a Grimlin. These are like the
Speaker 2: Hinchman for the bad guys in that movie. These car
Speaker 2: are known to be horrible built cars.
Speaker 3: Horribly built, I.
Speaker 1: Should say, And you say bad guys, I say misunderstood.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Now, that being said, if you were to take the
Speaker 2: body of that car and do some sort of engine
Speaker 2: swap to something that's more reliable, you might have something
Speaker 2: to fuck with on your hands. But yeah, god, I
Speaker 2: did not think we were going to take that side tangent,
Speaker 2: But I'm not mad that we did.
Speaker 3: So, like here we are.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, hey, we just have different flavor.
Speaker 3: That's all, all right, So let's get back back to
Speaker 3: the article. Let's go all right.
Speaker 1: So, to some the story of the Torrid Man as
Speaker 1: he became known, serves as evidence that there are indeed
Speaker 1: universes parallel to our own, as the man himself may
Speaker 1: have accidentally slipped into our dimension, one where Torrid never existed.
Speaker 1: Others have suggested the entire story is nothing more than fiction.
Speaker 1: The truth, however, lies somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 3: As it typically does.
Speaker 2: Now, this is a picture of Andorra right the spot
Speaker 2: he pointed to on the map. It's right there in
Speaker 2: the middle of the Pyrenees Mountains is the mountain range
Speaker 2: that separates Spain from France.
Speaker 3: Cool and he.
Speaker 2: Pointed to this one small section. And Andorra is a
Speaker 2: spot that has been around since the twelve hundreds. Like
Speaker 2: it's a very old place. It's I don't want to
Speaker 2: say it's like a micronation, but it's basically its own
Speaker 2: autonomous region, even though they acknowledged the Prime Minister as
Speaker 2: France to be their figureheads.
Speaker 4: So like it.
Speaker 2: You know, when Europe got sliced up after World War
Speaker 2: One and then again subsequently after World War Two, maps
Speaker 2: got drawn crazy. Different little principalities were vying for their
Speaker 2: own autonomy. Some got enveloped into bigger countries, some through
Speaker 2: some you know, treaty, this treaty that next thing. You know,
Speaker 2: they kind of are their own thing, but not exactly
Speaker 2: what kind of You'll have that from time to time. Right,
Speaker 2: So this is Andorra. Now let's talk more about this
Speaker 2: parallel universe situation.
Speaker 1: There are several components to the story of the Man
Speaker 1: from Torrid that have led some curious minded people over
Speaker 1: the years to the conclusion that he hailed from another dimension.
Speaker 1: The first is the country of tord itself. When presented
Speaker 1: with a map and asked to point out the country,
Speaker 1: the man is said to have pointed to Andorra, between
Speaker 1: Span and France. As he quickly became angry and confused.
Speaker 1: Why was his home country of Tourd not listed on
Speaker 1: this map? This is where it should be and where
Speaker 1: it had been for over a thousand years. The man
Speaker 1: is also said to have had currency from several European
Speaker 1: countries on his person and stamps from numerous airports around
Speaker 1: the globe or flat earth. He had even visited Tokyo
Speaker 1: on several previous occasions, yet the company he claimed to
Speaker 1: work for had never heard of him, nor had the
Speaker 1: hotel he allegedly had a reservation at, or the company
Speaker 1: officials in Tokyo he was supposed to be meeting with.
Speaker 1: Despite this, the man supposedly had various documents that supported
Speaker 1: this story. Then, of course, was the man's disappearance from
Speaker 1: his hotel room. The room was several floors up and
Speaker 1: lacked a balcony. The police reportedly even determined that the
Speaker 1: man could not have escaped via the windows, and the
Speaker 1: guards never saw the man leave. In combination, these circumstances
Speaker 1: have led many to the conclusion that the man had
Speaker 1: accidentally crossed into our dimension from a parallel one, and
Speaker 1: this parallel universe, they say toward, really did exist, and
Speaker 1: the man was telling the truth. His disappearance is often
Speaker 1: attributed to him sliding back into his own universe, again,
Speaker 1: seemingly without any intention or explanation. It's an incredibly interesting story,
Speaker 1: unbelievably so, some might argue, fair.
Speaker 2: Enough, Now let's get into this guy, John Allen Zigris.
Speaker 2: All right, and as a matter of fact, we could
Speaker 2: pull up this Wikipedia page about and now John Zigris here.
Speaker 2: So just going off with the overview, here is the
Speaker 2: reported name of a man detained in nineteen sixty in
Speaker 2: Japan for alleged document fabrication. He was dubbed the Mysterious
Speaker 2: Man by Japanese news at the time and became the
Speaker 2: prototype for some urban legends.
Speaker 3: So here's the incident.
Speaker 2: In October nineteen fifty nine, a man recorded as John
Speaker 2: Allen kukshar Zigras, thirty six years old, into Japan with
Speaker 2: his Korean wife. Three months later, he was arrested by
Speaker 2: the Tokyo Metropolitan Police suspected of identity fraud. He tried
Speaker 2: to cash a two hundred thousand yen check in a
Speaker 2: one hundred and forty dollars travelers check at the Japanese
Speaker 2: office of Chase Manhattan Bank, and a one hundred thousand
Speaker 2: dollars yin sorry one hundred thousand yin at the Japanese
Speaker 2: office of the Bank of Korea. The case was investigated
Speaker 2: by a guy's name I can't pronounce, let's just call
Speaker 2: him Sassa as his last name, at the Tokyo Metropolitan
Speaker 2: Police Department Public Safety or Public Security Bureau, who would
Speaker 2: later write about Zigris in his memoirs. Although his passport
Speaker 2: contained the stamps of Japanese embassies in different East European countries,
Speaker 2: the passport was determined to be counterfeit. Moreoven Moreover, a
Speaker 2: visa was issued by the Japanese embassy in Taipei. According
Speaker 2: to the records, Zigris said he was born in the US,
Speaker 2: moved to the U through Czechoslovakia and Germany, and attended
Speaker 2: high school there. During World War Two, he was a
Speaker 2: pilot of the Royal Air Force and was once captured
Speaker 2: by the Germans. After the war, he lived in Latin America. Later,
Speaker 2: he became a spy for the Americans in South Korea,
Speaker 2: served as a pilot in Thailand and Vietnam, and after
Speaker 2: that he worked for the United Arab Republic. He arrived
Speaker 2: in Japan for a secret mission which included recruiting Japanese
Speaker 2: military volunteers for the United Arab Republic. Eventually, after contacting
Speaker 2: the mentioned countries, it was ruled that the information was
Speaker 2: not based in any facts and the seals on his
Speaker 2: pseudo passport were proven to be fabricated. Now, on August
Speaker 2: tenth of nineteen sixty, the Tokyo District Court reviewed the
Speaker 2: case and sent in Zigris to one year in prison.
Speaker 2: After the announcement, he tried to commit suicide by cutting
Speaker 2: his veins to the piece of glass secretly brought by
Speaker 2: him to the court. After his release, Zigris was deported
Speaker 2: from Japan to Hong Kong, from where he recorded the
Speaker 2: entire region.
Speaker 3: My wife was deported back to South Korea. Now, damn this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the guy was kind of crazy with it,
Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong. But there's a lot more that
Speaker 2: goes to this guy than we're just hearing right now.
Speaker 2: But we're gonna get to that here.
Speaker 3: In a bit.
Speaker 2: Now, let's read about this dude from the all That's
Speaker 2: interesting article. Now, this is a picture of him at
Speaker 2: this airport. Oh, I'm sorry, that's him, I think, But anyway,
Speaker 2: let's continue.
Speaker 1: Okay, this reminds me of what was the guy that
Speaker 1: got away with stealing money from the airplane and then
Speaker 1: jumped and escaped right?
Speaker 2: Oh, dB Cooper, dB Cooper. Yeah, so that is another story.
Speaker 2: But keep in mind this guy actually didn't rob a bank.
Speaker 2: He didn't you know, fly out anywhere. As a matter
Speaker 2: of fact, you just like slipped detection and was never
Speaker 2: heard from again. This guy the man from Torrid, so
Speaker 2: to speak. But I meant, I'm glad that you brought
Speaker 2: up that. You can already kind of see some resemblance
Speaker 2: to another story, because, as it turns out, there is
Speaker 2: another story from a guy from this timeframe that got
Speaker 2: so popular, in fact, that a movie was made about
Speaker 2: him starring Leo DiCaprio.
Speaker 3: We're going to talk about that one in a minute,
Speaker 3: but let's continue.
Speaker 1: Oh was it aviator or aviation or what?
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, not Howard Hughes. Although that guy in
Speaker 3: and of himself is enignatic.
Speaker 2: We also I actually was thinking about doing an episode
Speaker 2: on him talking about how they were looking for a
Speaker 2: Russian submarine that got lost that had nukes on it,
Speaker 2: and so Howard Hughes bought a boat and it was
Speaker 2: fitted out with all of these components and shit. But
Speaker 2: then it was also under a shell company and did
Speaker 2: it actually ever happen? And it's wild but no, no, no,
Speaker 2: Howard Hughes a different conversation. We'll get to it, I promise,
Speaker 2: let's keep going.
Speaker 1: According to Snows, a real life incident inspired the story
Speaker 1: of a Man from Torrid, but it is a greatly
Speaker 1: embellished and fantastical version of the far less sensational real
Speaker 1: story end quotes. As exciting as the idea of a
Speaker 1: visitor from another dimension can be, the unfortunate reality is
Speaker 1: that the Torrid man was nothing more than a simple fraudster.
Speaker 1: There is a considerable amount of evidence to suggest that
Speaker 1: the true identity of the man from Toward was John
Speaker 1: Allan Zegris, who was arrested in Tokyo in nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: for trying to cash phony checks after using a false
Speaker 1: passport to get into the country. On July twenty ninth,
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty, a debate in the British House of Commons
Speaker 1: referred to the case of John Allen Zegris, who it
Speaker 1: was said, described in quotes himself as an intelligence agent
Speaker 1: for Colonel Nasser and a naturalized Ethiopian. This man, according
Speaker 1: to the evidence was, has traveled all over the world
Speaker 1: with a very impressive looking passport. Indeed, it is written
Speaker 1: in a language unknown and has remained unidentified, although it
Speaker 1: has been studied for a long time by philologists.
Speaker 2: So this is where the plot starts to get a
Speaker 2: little thicker. We're going to get more into it, I promise.
Speaker 1: But so at least the man existed.
Speaker 3: The guy John Alexegris existed, no doubt.
Speaker 2: But the story that he told them about how he
Speaker 2: was born in America, made his way to England, then
Speaker 2: went to the Czech Republic.
Speaker 3: Then did here, then went there.
Speaker 2: Then he was a pilot for the Royal Air Service
Speaker 2: or Royal Air Force, I should say, not the Ris.
Speaker 2: But my point is he was a pilot for the
Speaker 2: British during the war, got shot down, was prisoner from
Speaker 2: the Germans.
Speaker 3: All these things. He was thirty two, and this was
Speaker 3: in nineteen fifty nine.
Speaker 1: People used to accomplish a lot of shit before they
Speaker 1: turned a certain age back in the day.
Speaker 2: I feel like, no, no, no, no, dude, I'm saying
Speaker 2: like that would mean that he was a pilot when
Speaker 2: he was what twelve? Oh yeah, Like this is what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. The more of his story just kind of
Speaker 2: doesn't make sense. Then we get to this other part.
Speaker 2: He's his first language was French. He was also very
Speaker 2: fluent in Japanese. Yes, but he didn't speak English, which
Speaker 2: he claimed that he was born in America, then made
Speaker 2: his way to England and all these things. But according
Speaker 2: to this he told them, and this was talked about
Speaker 2: in the British House of Commons. He was an intelligence
Speaker 2: agent for Colonel Nasser and it naturalized the opia. Now
Speaker 2: for those that may not understand what this might mean, Okay,
Speaker 2: Colonel Nasser was the leader of Egypt at one point
Speaker 2: in time, and Ethiopia and Egypt. Ethiopia had your boy
Speaker 2: Hussein Salome excuse me, the guy that the Rasafarians believe
Speaker 2: was the second coming of Jesus Christ. Okay, so this
Speaker 2: guy and Naser did not jive. And Ethiopia and Egypt
Speaker 2: are really close to each other. So there were some
Speaker 2: spy versus spy games that were going on with these
Speaker 2: countries at this time. And keep in mind, this guy
Speaker 2: claimed that he was a secret agent for the Arab States,
Speaker 2: which you see what I'm saying. It's like he just
Speaker 2: hit blender on story time and just to let that
Speaker 2: bitch roll out. But he said enough things to where
Speaker 2: it kind of made a little bit of sense. If
Speaker 2: this guy was an intelligence agent. Okay, if he was
Speaker 2: a spy, it would make sense that he would have
Speaker 2: forged passports, and if they were forged, well, it would
Speaker 2: make sense that you would see so many stamps as
Speaker 2: if he had been to so many countries. He did
Speaker 2: have euros on him from or not euros exceym Us
Speaker 2: before the EU, but he had money from multiple European countries.
Speaker 2: His passport had already gotten him into and out of
Speaker 2: Japan at one point in time. Apparently this guy came
Speaker 2: with his South Korean wife and all these things. It's like,
Speaker 2: there's certain things about this story that don't exactly make sense.
Speaker 2: But again, this is a completely unsolved case, and some
Speaker 2: say it's all just an urban legend and none of
Speaker 2: it's based in facts, even though John Allen Zegris absolutely existed.
Speaker 1: But but also this was way back in the time
Speaker 1: where airport security was like non existent. I mean, oh,
Speaker 1: probably not in airplanes, yeah, probably not even just in Japan,
Speaker 1: like probably all over the damn world, right.
Speaker 2: Everywhere, Dude, you could nobody questioned if you had a
Speaker 2: gun on you or or carried a knife, or if
Speaker 2: you could just smoke on a plane with a babysit
Speaker 2: next to you. Okay, nobody can. This is the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 2: But keep in mind also our fifties and sixties. You
Speaker 2: wore a suit and tie to go on to a plane,
Speaker 2: like it was a whole affair. You weren't dressing in
Speaker 2: pj's with your neck roll to go on this flight.
Speaker 2: You were dressing like you wanted to impress people to
Speaker 2: get on an airplane.
Speaker 4: Bro.
Speaker 1: Yeah, those airplane pillows are slept on.
Speaker 2: But anyway, anyway, let's continue into this story. Like I said,
Speaker 2: it's getting wilder and wilder the more we dive in here, y'all.
Speaker 1: The House member continued, describing Zegris's passport as seemingly issued
Speaker 1: in the city of tam and Roset, the capital of
Speaker 1: the state of Torrid, which Zegris claimed was an independent
Speaker 1: state of roughly two million people south of the Sahara.
Speaker 1: The debate aimed to illustrate how easily passports could be
Speaker 1: forged the bank.
Speaker 2: Now, keep in mind he said that Torrid was between
Speaker 2: Spain and France. In Andorra, right, Tamarro set is the
Speaker 2: is one one of the cities in Algeria, which, just
Speaker 2: so everybody's clear, Algeria speaks French. Oh, but again he's
Speaker 2: talking about how it's a country of roughly two million
Speaker 2: people south of the Sahara. After he just got done
Speaker 2: telling the Japanese people that it's between Spain and France,
Speaker 2: it gets wilder.
Speaker 3: Let's keep going.
Speaker 1: The Vancouver based paper called The Province also reported on
Speaker 1: Zegris at the time, writing in quotes, mister Zegris wanted
Speaker 1: to travel around the world to impress officials. He invented
Speaker 1: a nation, a capital, a people, and a language. All
Speaker 1: these he recorded on a passport which he made himself.
Speaker 1: End quote.
Speaker 2: Now the Province also we have that article. We are
Speaker 2: going to pull up here in a minute, but let's continue.
Speaker 1: According to the report, Zegris was able to travel all
Speaker 1: across the world successfully using his fake passport, particularly across
Speaker 1: regions of the Middle East, When people doubted his documentation,
Speaker 1: he invited them to read a small proclamation stamp beneath
Speaker 1: the national symbol of tour, which read in quotes something
Speaker 1: that is not a real language.
Speaker 2: It's not like for the right we could try to
Speaker 2: read rich ubwei oustra negusi habisi twap tarapa good job.
Speaker 2: It's it's all just made up though this language, it
Speaker 2: was written in a dialect nobody understands, and by some
Speaker 2: reports it was even written in in a in pen
Speaker 2: in a way that nobody could understand.
Speaker 1: May as well have just been speaking doth raki, you know, basically, yes,
Speaker 1: the saying or this saying means nothing in any language.
Speaker 1: It wasn't until or Zegris tried to visit Tokyo that
Speaker 1: his passport was finally thoroughly scrutinized and his story didn't
Speaker 1: hold up. Japanese officials studied the maps, saw that there
Speaker 1: was no state of Torrid, and began taking steps to
Speaker 1: prosecute Zegris. The province paper referred to Zegris as a
Speaker 1: quote a martyr to Japanese thoroughness end quote.
Speaker 3: I guess, I guess.
Speaker 2: So this is a picture of the Japanese airport in
Speaker 2: the mid nineteen fifties.
Speaker 3: Noise. I mean, it's crazy to think that this is
Speaker 3: in Tokyo. Dude.
Speaker 2: When you think of Tokyo today, you think of like
Speaker 2: all of the lights, the biggest of big city vibes,
Speaker 2: all the things.
Speaker 3: This is the little airport in the nineteen fifties.
Speaker 2: Keep in mind, they just had two nukes dropped on
Speaker 2: mainland Japan less than ten years from when this was taken. Now,
Speaker 2: not in Tokyo, of course, it was other places, but
Speaker 2: like I'm just saying it was. It was just a
Speaker 2: different world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: Reddit user tera Eochi posted several Japanese newspaper articles from
Speaker 1: the summer of nineteen sixty to the winter of nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty one that covered the tord Man case, which offered
Speaker 1: even more insight into the truth behind this legend. According
Speaker 1: to the report, Zegris attempted suicide shortly after being sentenced
Speaker 1: to one year of imprisonment by the Tokyo District Court
Speaker 1: on charges of illegal entry and fraud. Yep, that'll get you,
Speaker 1: they will. Indeed, when he was informed of his sentencing,
Speaker 1: he reportedly shouted and quotes, I'm going to kill myself
Speaker 1: and slashed his arms with pieces of broken glass bottle
Speaker 1: that he had kept hidden. Zegris had entered Japan using
Speaker 1: his fake passport on October nineteen fifty nine with his
Speaker 1: Korean wife, but while in the country, he struggled to
Speaker 1: pay for his stay. He cashed out roughly two hundred
Speaker 1: thousand yen, which is worth about fourteen hundred and six
Speaker 1: dollars worth of counterfeit checks at various Tokyo banks, and
Speaker 1: also claimed to be both from the CIA and the
Speaker 1: FBI working in Japan on orders from an Arab related
Speaker 1: organization end quotes.
Speaker 2: Also, who screams that and then does it? I'm going
Speaker 2: to kill myself like you, You don't announce it. You
Speaker 2: just looking for attention at that point. All right, You're
Speaker 2: going to jail for a year, bro, Get over it.
Speaker 2: It's a year. One year in a Japanese jail when
Speaker 2: they're on the rebuild vibe like this sit in wartime
Speaker 2: Imperial Japan, where you've got the dudes that are making
Speaker 2: sure that of all the worst ways to kill someone
Speaker 2: like you're gonna be fine.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: To be fair, I think that most people that say
Speaker 1: they're going to kill themselves, it is more of an
Speaker 1: attention thing that I believe.
Speaker 2: So I don't like to say that though, but yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's ridiculous that they would do it in this way,
Speaker 2: but whatever.
Speaker 1: Papers also noted that Zegris's report or passport rather was
Speaker 1: the size of a weekly magazine and was recognizable at
Speaker 1: a glance as a fake. Perhaps the most surprising component
Speaker 1: of Zegris's story, however, is that he never actually spent
Speaker 1: any time in prison. By the time all was said
Speaker 1: and done, the number of days he had already spent
Speaker 1: in detention outweighed his sentence, and so he was released
Speaker 1: on time served. Ultimately, Zegris said that he would leave
Speaker 1: Japan to start a new life in a new country.
Speaker 1: No one ever learned where he really came from or
Speaker 1: who he really was, and after he left Japan, his
Speaker 1: name never appeared in any significant historical way.
Speaker 2: Now you see what I mean as far as the
Speaker 2: possibility of like air national spy kind of thing goes.
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying FBI, CIA or anything like that,
Speaker 2: but if he was from some Arab country, maybe Egypt,
Speaker 2: maybe Ethiopia, maybe Saudi Arabia for all we know, we
Speaker 2: don't know, right, he was a fair or complexed guy,
Speaker 2: but had a beard, and he didn't look he didn't
Speaker 2: look European. He looked European ish, could have been a
Speaker 2: little light all of complexion kind of guy, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? That could mean so many things racially
Speaker 2: ambiguous if you will, right, Yeah, I mean all that
Speaker 2: to say, his passport was the size of a weekly magazine.
Speaker 2: But there were appropriate stamps from multiple countries. So apparently
Speaker 2: this giant passport was good enough to pass scrutiny from
Speaker 2: all these other countries. Now, granted, the scrutiny of the
Speaker 2: airports in the Arab world in the nineteen fifty probably
Speaker 2: weren't the best on earth, probably not, you know, but
Speaker 2: European countries. Keep in mind a lot of them were
Speaker 2: on the rebuilding vibe after World War Two. A lot
Speaker 2: of them had the ship bombed out of them. Maybe
Speaker 2: their security wasn't the best in the world either. And
Speaker 2: the other thing is he kept saying that he was
Speaker 2: working on behalf of the Egyptian government. So when he
Speaker 2: would provide this passport, they didn't just let him through.
Speaker 2: They rolled out the fucking red carpet for him. Because
Speaker 2: he was not acting as a foreign dignitary, but essentially
Speaker 2: he was acting on behalf of the president of a
Speaker 2: country that everybody could recognize. They was, oh, sure, sure, man,
Speaker 2: whatever you say, let's go. No one ever really stopped
Speaker 2: to read his passport. Then Japan final was like, where
Speaker 2: the hell is Torrid? What are you talking about? And
Speaker 2: that led to everything else.
Speaker 1: But well, I feel like, you know, if you think
Speaker 1: about what are they called air marshals and shit? Right, Like,
Speaker 1: I just recently watched this movie about an air marshal.
Speaker 1: It was Liam Neeson. It's actually a pretty horrible movie,
Speaker 1: but Liam Neeson just makes everything better, you know. Indeed,
Speaker 1: and supposedly the air marshals and the pilots don't have
Speaker 1: to really go through the whole security process. They can
Speaker 1: kind of just skate by, right, Yeah, And so I
Speaker 1: would imagine that if you're already doing that for those
Speaker 1: kind of people. I mean, would you make the president
Speaker 1: of the United States show his passport if it's an easy,
Speaker 1: easily recognizable face. I mean, you would probably just let
Speaker 1: him slide by, especially in those times.
Speaker 2: I mean, to be fair, when I went to France,
Speaker 2: I still do this day, don't have a passport, and
Speaker 2: I've been out of the country. But I was there
Speaker 2: for work and I have a military ID, and we
Speaker 2: didn't like go through customs. We are carrying weapons, Like,
Speaker 2: we didn't go through customs when we landed at the
Speaker 2: airport in Paris. We afloaded our own shit. So I
Speaker 2: mean it's there's stipulations and there's like loopholes, if you will,
Speaker 2: for when you're on business for that type of business,
Speaker 2: military or government or otherwise. So yeah, but even still,
Speaker 2: this is before they even had air marshals. That didn't
Speaker 2: become a thing until like the was it the shoe bomber,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know when it started, but yeah,
Speaker 2: this is this is well before any of that kind
Speaker 2: of shit.
Speaker 3: So I mean that's the thing. He kind of skated by.
Speaker 2: So many countries just let him through because he said
Speaker 2: the right things and he looked the right part, and
Speaker 2: they weren't.
Speaker 3: They are not.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine being the desk worker at some airport
Speaker 2: in just any old country, doesn't matter. In nineteen fifty five,
Speaker 2: this guy's claiming to be a foreign dignitary. He's got
Speaker 2: all this information about some country you've never heard of.
Speaker 2: But I mean, you're not the you're not the knowwher
Speaker 2: of all things worldwide here, I mean, sure enough, and
Speaker 2: you see that his passport has been stamped from appropriate
Speaker 2: parties at all these other places. What are your chances
Speaker 2: that you're gonna call your boss to be like, hey,
Speaker 2: this guy doesn't make sense, or are you gonna pencil
Speaker 2: whip it like the last five countries before you did,
Speaker 2: just to get him out of your face and move
Speaker 2: on to the next customer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and there's probably an instance where somebody
Speaker 1: doesn't want to look stupid. They see that other people
Speaker 1: have already done it, and they're like, well, I don't
Speaker 1: want to seem like, you know, I'm the hold up,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like, it could be just
Speaker 1: a situation like that. By the way, you're going to risk.
Speaker 2: Your job for this guy who's claiming to be somebody
Speaker 2: as a you don't know if it's an ambassador, you
Speaker 2: don't know if it's a secret agent.
Speaker 3: Or some sort of security force from another country.
Speaker 2: You're gonna you're willing to risk your job when clearly
Speaker 2: eight other countries did their background checks.
Speaker 3: Clearly they know what they're doing. Yeah, it makes sense
Speaker 3: to me.
Speaker 1: The Federal Air Marshal Service began March second, nineteen sixty two,
Speaker 1: as part of the FAA Peace Officers Program in response
Speaker 1: to increasing hijackings.
Speaker 3: So this was before that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, man, let's see we were ultimatelyast Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we read that one. So as John Allen Zegris faded
Speaker 1: into obscurity, his story did the opposite. It traveled across
Speaker 1: the world, transforming from tail to a a tale of
Speaker 1: a fraudster traveling across the world into the urban legend
Speaker 1: of the Man from Torrid, an extra dimensional human existing
Speaker 1: in our universe for but a brief moment before disappearing
Speaker 1: as if he had never been there at all.
Speaker 2: Now there's more to it, right, the Japanese security that
Speaker 2: was posted outside of his door and the guy disappeared.
Speaker 2: That has a little more basing reality than what people
Speaker 2: really want to give it.
Speaker 3: Credit for him.
Speaker 2: We're going to get into that as well. But this
Speaker 2: is Andorra, right, and I figure we could show some
Speaker 2: pictures of it. It's as n It's kind of a
Speaker 2: vacation destination, dude, the Pyrenees Mountains.
Speaker 3: It's like, got a bunch of ski resorts and shit,
Speaker 3: it's a nice spot.
Speaker 1: Looks like the Alpine.
Speaker 2: Right now, this is an article clipped from the Canadian
Speaker 2: news called The Province, okay, and this is all about
Speaker 2: the man from Torrid. And so whenever they say that
Speaker 2: no one else has really ever heard of him, well
Speaker 2: somebody somewhere did.
Speaker 1: Let's keep going here, all right, man with his own country.
Speaker 1: Everyone who has run in to officialdom to his cost
Speaker 1: and wondered at the ridiculous questions asked of Taurus will
Speaker 1: have sympathy for a man sonorously named John Allen Coucher Zegris.
Speaker 1: Mister Zegris wanted to travel around the world to impress officials.
Speaker 1: He invented a nation, a capital, and a people and
Speaker 1: a language, all of these recorded on a passport which
Speaker 1: he made himself. Victims of bureaucracy all over the universe
Speaker 1: will be delighted to hear what that He was wonderfully
Speaker 1: received everywhere, well almost everywhere. John claimed to be a
Speaker 1: naturalized Ethiopian and an intelligence agent for Colonel Nassar. The
Speaker 1: passport was stamped as issued as tam and Rissette Rasset.
Speaker 3: How do you say that tam and.
Speaker 1: The capital of Torrid south of the Sahara any places
Speaker 1: so romantically named ought to exist, but they don't. John Allen,
Speaker 1: coucher Zegris invented them. Armed with his Armed with this
Speaker 1: wonderful documents, Zegris traveled royally through the Middle East, accepting
Speaker 1: homage as he went, and if there were any doubters,
Speaker 1: they were invited to read a kind of proclamation beneath
Speaker 1: the national Towards stamp. It read that which Jacob tried
Speaker 1: to read earlier. There was another language that was the clincher,
Speaker 1: but didn't mean anything in any language. The gallant gesture
Speaker 1: for the individualists unfortunately ended with the Japanese in Tokyo.
Speaker 1: They began looking up maps, and John Allen is in
Speaker 1: court a martyr to Japanese thoroughness. Okay, his action takes precedence.
Speaker 1: We think over the American citizen who flew his own
Speaker 1: plane around the world, wearing his own uniform, receiving homage
Speaker 1: from all and sundry Man. They just talked way different
Speaker 1: back in the day. But the more we ponder on
Speaker 1: mister Zegris, the more we wish uh there were really
Speaker 1: a capital called Tamarasset and the electable country of towards
Speaker 1: south of the Sahara with the language language like the
Speaker 1: one Zegris invented. All its citizens would be blessed with
Speaker 1: John Allen sterling attitude towards collectors of useless information.
Speaker 3: That being said, this is Tamarasset.
Speaker 2: It's a city in Algeria as a matter of fact,
Speaker 2: and it's got national parks. It's got a volcanic place
Speaker 2: that you can go check out. It is a place
Speaker 2: that does exist. But again, this is not the uh,
Speaker 2: this is not the place that your boy claimed that
Speaker 2: he was from. Algeria is way over here. It's it's
Speaker 2: just north of Molly and Niger, to the right of
Speaker 2: or to the east i should say, of Morocco. That's
Speaker 2: not near Egypt or Ethiopia. This is this is This
Speaker 2: is Spain right here. This is the Strait of Gibraltar.
Speaker 2: So your boy was from around North Africa, allegedly with
Speaker 2: the name of Tamarasset. But again, and it's not even
Speaker 2: like it's the capital city either. It's a small region
Speaker 2: or a small city within a larger region that no
Speaker 2: one ever really has heard of unless you're just in
Speaker 2: it when it comes to geography and things like that.
Speaker 3: But that being said, this is his passport.
Speaker 1: Oh shit, yeah, man, look at that name Jennans for Behoedric.
Speaker 3: Pdrick, Yeah, Berderick or herder I don't know. This is another.
Speaker 2: Yeah, whenever you start looking up the United Kingdom of Torrid,
Speaker 2: you're gonna find this thing.
Speaker 3: Genasf Broderick. Fucking Broderick.
Speaker 1: Wait a second. You see September eleventh on there?
Speaker 3: I do September eleventh to September of eighty eight. No,
Speaker 3: that can't be right.
Speaker 4: What is that?
Speaker 3: And then down here it says the sixteenth of July
Speaker 3: the data birth. What there's a date of issue in
Speaker 3: his date of birth?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. Eighty eight. Well I guess, well,
Speaker 1: I guess it could have been eighteen eighty eight. Well
Speaker 1: he wasn't that old though, because this happened in the
Speaker 1: fifties and sixties exactly.
Speaker 2: No, but again, he doesn't look Even if this is
Speaker 2: supposed to be eighteen eighty eight, this guy is not
Speaker 2: looking like he's seventy years old.
Speaker 3: He was thirty six.
Speaker 1: Maybe he's from twenty thousand, eighty eight.
Speaker 3: You never know.
Speaker 2: This is why so much speculation has been towards like, okay,
Speaker 2: time traveler. Maybe I don't know, but anyway, so let's
Speaker 2: learn about old zennisfer.
Speaker 1: So Uh nineteen fifty four, while entering a man named
Speaker 1: jet jenansfur Burr Hodrick at Tokyo International Airport. The investigator,
Speaker 1: wondering to see his passport, Becca used, because I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: because oh because.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it cuts off weird on this. That's why this
Speaker 2: article did this. It does that all the way down.
Speaker 2: There's words that like cut off halfway. So I do
Speaker 2: apologize for.
Speaker 1: That, okay. So because it was said that he lived
Speaker 1: in a country called Torrid, which does not exist in
Speaker 1: the man's passport, the investigator said, the passport is wrong.
Speaker 1: The country of tour does not exist. Zenanspur Hautrick also
Speaker 1: told the explanation and location of the tord but no
Speaker 1: matter where you were, no country was found. So zenasf
Speaker 1: ver Hadrick stays at the hotel under strict management. But
Speaker 1: one day zanask for of a, Hodrick disappears from the
Speaker 1: hotel and even all his belongings disappear. However, dozens of
Speaker 1: security officers were surrounding the hotel, so it was an
Speaker 1: environment in which it was impossible to escape and go out.
Speaker 1: So the reality of it, it says in October of
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine, a man named John Allen kucher Zegris,
Speaker 1: who was thirty six years old, enter Japan with his
Speaker 1: Korean wife. Three months later, he was arrested by Tokyo
Speaker 1: police on charges of identity fraud. He was caught trying
Speaker 1: to cash at two hundred thousand yen Czech and traveled
Speaker 1: in a travelers check worth one hundred and forty dollars
Speaker 1: at the Chase Manhattan Bank Japan branch and trying to
Speaker 1: cash one hundred thousand yen at the Bank of Korea's
Speaker 1: Japanese branch since then. The man was born in the
Speaker 1: United States and moved to England through Czechoslovakia and Germany,
Speaker 1: where he went to high school there. And during World
Speaker 1: War Two he was a Royal Air Force pilot once
Speaker 1: he was captured by the Germans, and after the war
Speaker 1: he went to a Latin America and lived in Latin
Speaker 1: America later.
Speaker 2: Right, so they're gonna repeat pretty much the same story
Speaker 2: that we read on a former article. But my point
Speaker 2: is hearing these things, right, the checks that he tried
Speaker 2: to cash, and then this whole backstory. Now we're hearing
Speaker 2: about this jenasfer Roderick guy. This is the first time
Speaker 2: we've heard this name. It's all been about other people,
Speaker 2: other places, all this, but this passport is legitimate.
Speaker 3: So where where is the truth? Where is the Internet hoax?
Speaker 3: Where do the lies start? And stop? Right? Let's jump
Speaker 3: over here.
Speaker 2: This is an article from Ghost Machine, and I think
Speaker 2: they do a very good job of breaking it all
Speaker 2: down for us. The Man from Towards Solved John Zigris
Speaker 2: and how a real life event became an urban legend.
Speaker 1: Way back in twenty fifteen, when the ghost in in
Speaker 1: My Machine? Great beer by the way, and ghosts in
Speaker 1: the Machine? Ye, Who's what's the name of the Is
Speaker 1: that ten tin roof that makes that? I think right?
Speaker 3: I think so?
Speaker 1: Shout out baton rouge beer baby. Anyhow, when the Ghost
Speaker 1: in My Machine was still in its early years, I
Speaker 1: took a relatively brief look at the story that had
Speaker 1: been circulating for some time regarding a figure known as
Speaker 1: the Man from Torrid. At the time, I'd come to
Speaker 1: the conclusion that the mystery was likely an urban legend.
Speaker 1: There was little to no information actually backing it up,
Speaker 1: with the tail mostly being repeated over and over as hearsay.
Speaker 1: No reliable sources cited. A year or two ago, though
Speaker 1: I saw started seeing some chatter about or some chatter
Speaker 1: that the Man from Toward mystery had been solved. He
Speaker 1: was actually a man called John Zegris, and he had
Speaker 1: been detained in Japan due to a forged passport circa
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine to nineteen sixty. All right, so he goes,
Speaker 1: he goes. I'll admit that initially I was skeptical. At first.
Speaker 1: I was mostly seeing the basic information of this possible
Speaker 1: solution passed around the same way the original Man from
Speaker 1: Towards story had been, that is, briefly and without much
Speaker 1: in the way of citations to support the claim. But
Speaker 1: I figured it was worth looking into any way to
Speaker 1: see if it actually checked out, because well, that's what
Speaker 1: I do. The short answer is the version of the
Speaker 1: story I had previously looked at is an urban legend,
Speaker 1: but as is often the case with urban legends, it
Speaker 1: does appear to have its basis in a factual event.
Speaker 1: John Zegris did exist, he did arrive in Japan in
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine, and he did get into some trouble
Speaker 1: in early nineteen sixty due to passport forgery, among other things. Mean,
Speaker 1: while the long answer the story of how Zegra's case
Speaker 1: was unearthed by modern day Internet salutes and his connection
Speaker 1: to the man from Torrid. Legend uncovered is quite a ride.
Speaker 1: We've got three primary people to thank for uncovering the
Speaker 1: various bits and pieces that allow us to see the
Speaker 1: big picture here. Nathaniel Attinoli, who kicked the kick this
Speaker 1: leg of the investigation off on Reddit in July of
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. Julia Lewis, who added to the search of
Speaker 1: the Fortia for Fortiana forums under the username A Nanni
Speaker 1: Jay in March of twenty twenty and later published her
Speaker 1: fundings in a write up for the June twenty twenty
Speaker 1: one issue for The fourteen Times. And redditor and note
Speaker 1: dot com user Tera Eochi, who in November of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty dug up Japanese news coverage of the Zegras story
Speaker 1: from the time at which it was actually unfolding. Additionally,
Speaker 1: I located a blog post from Hattina blog user Gryfon
Speaker 1: that I found to be enormously useful as I started
Speaker 1: looking into the whole thing myself, as it provided access
Speaker 1: to a key Japanese source information contained within Atsi Yuki
Speaker 1: Sasa's book called The spies who passed me by. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have even been able to parse otherwise some names
Speaker 1: in there.
Speaker 2: There is indeed, so basically this person is showing their homework,
Speaker 2: showing their sources, and this is the story that they
Speaker 2: have been able to extrapolate from all these sources, some
Speaker 2: of them Americans, some of them Europeans, some of them
Speaker 2: Japanese who were there that were actually like documenting the things,
Speaker 2: and well, I mean they weren't there, but they are
Speaker 2: documenting the paperwork in the story from the events that
Speaker 2: took place, and they're actually there in the country now
Speaker 2: so they have more access to those hard paper documents.
Speaker 3: But anyway, let's go, so.
Speaker 1: Who was John Zegris or John Allen Zegris or John
Speaker 1: Allen Zegris spelled differently, John Allen kucher Zegris, John Allen
Speaker 1: Kutcher Zegres spelled differently, and or John Allen k Zegris,
Speaker 1: depending on the source, and what did he do precisely,
Speaker 1: what happened to him and how did he become immortalized
Speaker 1: in the legend as the Man from Torrid. The facts
Speaker 1: of the facts in the case of John Zegris, the
Speaker 1: mystery Man without a nationality. The facts are these. On
Speaker 1: October twenty fourth, nineteen fifty nine, a thirty six year
Speaker 1: old man calling himself John Allen K. Zegris enter Japan
Speaker 1: through Henita Airport and Taipei, Taiwan, along with his thirty
Speaker 1: year old wife, who was from South Korea, reported the
Speaker 1: evening edition of the major Japanese newspaper Yomi Yuri Shimbun
Speaker 1: on August tenth, nineteen sixty. In December of nineteen fifty nine,
Speaker 1: Zegris attempted to defraud the Tokyo branches of both the
Speaker 1: Chase Manhattan Bank and the Bank of Korea out of
Speaker 1: some hefty funds two hundred thousand yen plus an additional
Speaker 1: one hundred and forty dollars in travelers checks from Chase
Speaker 1: Manhattan and another one hundred thousand yen from the Bank
Speaker 1: of Korea. Adjusting for inflation, that's just shy of one
Speaker 1: point two million yen today, or about eighty six hundred dollars.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: That yen is worth dog shit.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what happens when your economy goes to shit.
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to be.
Speaker 2: An asshole, but yeah, commis huh well, Japan ain't comedy,
Speaker 2: but yeah, to your point.
Speaker 1: It, oh, I was thinking that it was China for
Speaker 1: a second. Yeah, I know it's Japan. I'm tripping.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean even still, like, it's it's crazy
Speaker 2: that this dude was trying to cash these really high checks.
Speaker 3: I mean for that area. Yeah, it's a high check.
Speaker 2: Like I mean, you remember when we were watching Squid
Speaker 2: games and your boy's talking about all this yen that
Speaker 2: you'll get, and it's like, yeah, over there it's like
Speaker 2: four point six billion one and for us it's like
Speaker 2: like five hundred thousand.
Speaker 1: It was like half a million or some shit it was, which.
Speaker 2: I mean is still a chunk of change, don't get
Speaker 2: me wrong, but like you're gonna kill yourself for six figures, Doug.
Speaker 1: I mean Bill though, dude, all you gotta do is
Speaker 1: just go sign up to be on Big brother and
Speaker 1: you can. You know, if you win that, it's seven
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty grand right there, baby, you ain't got.
Speaker 3: To kill nobody. I mean, it's yeah, it's wild.
Speaker 1: I'm excited for the American version, though, that's gonna be sick.
Speaker 3: Big Brothers not an American show running.
Speaker 1: No, I'm talking about Squid games.
Speaker 3: Oh well, yeah, I am too. It seems like he's
Speaker 3: gonna be a good one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because there's some desperate ass Americans that I could
Speaker 1: name probably five people that I know would sign up
Speaker 1: for that.
Speaker 3: Oh for sure, easily. So do do do?
Speaker 1: All? Right? So, uh, forty three hundred dollars all in all,
Speaker 1: that's roughly or that's about fourteen hundred dollars today. Not millions, sure,
Speaker 1: but not but still not insignificant, especially given the era.
Speaker 1: Zegris was arrested in January nineteen sixty in connection with
Speaker 1: the attempted bank fraud, and upon his arrest, it was
Speaker 1: discovered that the passport he had used to enter Japan
Speaker 1: was forged.
Speaker 2: So here we see the Jenasfer Broderick passport. Actually it
Speaker 2: says not actually a passport from Tarred.
Speaker 3: Shocker.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is not from Turret, even though it says
Speaker 2: right there Tarred. But again, I mean fraudulent.
Speaker 1: I if it's from another dimension, how would we know
Speaker 1: it's not actually a real passport?
Speaker 2: You know, fair point, fair point. But again, this is
Speaker 2: the guy that was arrested in all these things. So
Speaker 2: let's find where the rubber meets the road with this story.
Speaker 1: Are you inclined to believe that if somebody is a
Speaker 1: scam artist or not even a scam artist, let's just
Speaker 1: say that there there's somebody who commits one act of fraudulents,
Speaker 1: are you inclined to believe that every other thing that
Speaker 1: comes out about them is most likely fraud? Like do
Speaker 1: you throw all the baby out for you?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: Do you throw all like the whole baby with, you know,
Speaker 1: out with the bathwater after one story? It's almost like,
Speaker 1: you know, I always you always like to bring up
Speaker 1: like you build a thousand bridges, but you fuck one goat?
Speaker 1: What are you called?
Speaker 3: Then? You know? Is it like that kind of yes?
Speaker 3: Kind of no? I give caveat. Okay for the most part.
Speaker 2: For some you have a case like Billy Carson who
Speaker 2: hold on, hold on, hold, wait, wait wait, because there's
Speaker 2: there's addendum to this.
Speaker 3: He was convicted for fraud years ago and then he
Speaker 3: started this whole you know.
Speaker 2: Story about the emerald tablets and the past and the
Speaker 2: Ananachi and all these things. Then come to find out,
Speaker 2: shocker to everybody I know, that he was in fact
Speaker 2: a fraud ster, and like, yeah, so that one the
Speaker 2: fraud charge that was brought against some years ago. That
Speaker 2: should have been a telltale sign, especially who's making some
Speaker 2: very incredulous claims, right, Okay, But then we also have
Speaker 2: another case where somebody wasn't just doing one fraudulent thing,
Speaker 2: did a whole list of fraudulent things, got arrested for it,
Speaker 2: and then turned his life around and became a consultant
Speaker 2: on finding fraud because he knew so much about it.
Speaker 2: In the way of a guy named Frank Abagnew Junior.
Speaker 2: Maybe you've heard of him from the movie Catch Me
Speaker 2: if you Can, starring Leo Dicaprice.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's the movie. Such a good movie, it is, indeed.
Speaker 2: But let's keep in mind this kid, when he was
Speaker 2: a teenager, posed as At first it was he posed
Speaker 2: as a French teacher because he could speak French fluently, his.
Speaker 3: Mom was French, his dad brought him home from the war,
Speaker 3: and all these things, right.
Speaker 4: Cool.
Speaker 2: So then he decides to take off buy a pilot's
Speaker 2: uniform and start writing fraudulent checks.
Speaker 3: And this is back before check fraud was a real thing.
Speaker 1: Oh and then he also didn't he like, pass the
Speaker 1: bar without even going to college or some shit too.
Speaker 3: I look that up. That is true.
Speaker 2: Rank Abagnale Junior passed the bar exam in New Orleans,
Speaker 2: Louisiana with two weeks of studying, with no background in
Speaker 2: law whatsoever.
Speaker 3: And I asked my lawyer about this.
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, I was just curious because, like,
Speaker 2: I understand that, and you know, that's a detract from
Speaker 2: the conversation too much. But Louisiana operates under Napoleonic law, Okay,
Speaker 2: the rest of the nation operates under what's called common law.
Speaker 2: Here is the only difference between the two. They basically
Speaker 2: are the same thing, but there's some slight nuances.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: The common law was a law adopted from England, which
Speaker 2: there's a law that was adopted from ancient Rome that
Speaker 2: was adopted from ancient Greece. It's like they basically have
Speaker 2: changed things to meet the times that we are currently
Speaker 2: living in. But either way you want to slice it,
Speaker 2: it's basically the same law. The courtroom still operates the
Speaker 2: same way. There's a precedence to all of it, right,
Speaker 2: Napoleonic law. When the French got to Louisiana, they basically
Speaker 2: wanted to set up a law system for this area.
Speaker 2: So what they did was they called all of the
Speaker 2: native American tribes to come together in this area and say,
Speaker 2: what is your practice for how you handle murder, how
Speaker 2: you handle theft, how you handle this and this and this.
Speaker 2: They compiled it all and french a tized. I was
Speaker 2: going to say anglicized it, but that's not true. They
Speaker 2: guys said they francophiled it, and they turned it into
Speaker 2: what we now call Napoleonic law. The thing is, it
Speaker 2: is pretty fucking close to common law. But that being said,
Speaker 2: if you pass the bar in Louisiana, you can't operate
Speaker 2: in any other state unless you go out and pass
Speaker 2: the bar in other states, right, which that's not just
Speaker 2: the Louisiana thing. Like if you have a license to
Speaker 2: operate in Pennsylvania, that does not mean that you can
Speaker 2: operate in New York City either.
Speaker 3: I mean he's just passed the bar.
Speaker 1: These It's pretty much the same thing for real estate,
Speaker 1: like sometimes it travels, Like if you get a Louisiana
Speaker 1: real estate license, I like, you can't even go to Texas.
Speaker 1: I don't think like it's like other states, not including
Speaker 1: like it's not including all of them. Sometimes it transfers.
Speaker 1: You still have to go over there and take the
Speaker 1: test over again. But you don't have to complete the
Speaker 1: schooling or some shit. But yeah, Frank Abagneil, what a
Speaker 1: stud he did.
Speaker 3: Indeed, as a matter of fact, you can look it
Speaker 3: up right here.
Speaker 2: Frank Abgnail passed Louisiana Bar Exam on his third attempt,
Speaker 2: after eight weeks of dedicated studying, having previously forged a
Speaker 2: Harvard Wall School transcript to apply for the exam. After
Speaker 2: failing the exam twice, he passed by applying the knowledge
Speaker 2: he'd gained from the wrong answers provided by the test.
Speaker 2: So I asked my lawyer about this. I was like,
Speaker 2: is it real possible? Like real shit? Is it possible
Speaker 2: to pass the bar exam? What two weeks of studying
Speaker 2: in that?
Speaker 3: That's it?
Speaker 2: He said, It's extremely hard, but it is possible, Like
Speaker 2: that is a thing that you could do if you
Speaker 2: have a mind for it, if you're really good at
Speaker 2: taking tests, if you already had tried a couple times
Speaker 2: so you already knew some of the wrong answer kind
Speaker 2: of thing.
Speaker 1: So some people a full on mental trap as far
Speaker 1: as like their ability to remember information.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and so Frank Abgnail Junior is a case
Speaker 2: of somebody who forged checks, forged transcripts. He acted as
Speaker 2: a doctor in Georgia, he acted as a lawyer in Louisiana.
Speaker 2: He was a pilot internationally. Then he goes to Europe
Speaker 2: and he starts printing real checks fraudulently from a manufacturer.
Speaker 3: You remember all of these things, right, mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Now this is also around the same timeframe fifties and
Speaker 2: sixties when Frank Abneil Junior was doing his shit.
Speaker 3: So now let's cut back to our guy here in Japan.
Speaker 2: Now to answer your question long form, there are some
Speaker 2: cases where if this person's caught with fraud once, what
Speaker 2: are the what's the likelihood that they are going to
Speaker 2: just be like, you know what, that was a big
Speaker 2: swing and a miss. Try to shoot my shot, got
Speaker 2: my Dick's lap for it. We're gonna move on. I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna go punch a clock and get a real
Speaker 2: job somewhere. Or what are the chances that they're like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: I'm smart enough. Now they caught me that time, They're
Speaker 2: not gonna catch me again because now I know what
Speaker 2: they're looking for. Realistically, what are the chances?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I was, I would say, especially back then,
Speaker 1: you know, you didn't even have the fucking Internet, dude,
Speaker 1: So you really had to be like really good at
Speaker 1: like understanding first of all how the system is and
Speaker 1: then learning like all the little discrepancies as far as
Speaker 1: being able to forge and fraud your way to get places.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, it's if nothing else, it's impressive.
Speaker 2: It is there is a level of appreciation that I
Speaker 2: can give to somebody who's able to pull off fraud
Speaker 2: to this level. Pulling up a passport that already passed
Speaker 2: through true, however many countries to get to this point
Speaker 2: is impressive, right, And that you knew enough things to
Speaker 2: say and you carried yourself in such a swagger that
Speaker 2: you were able to bypass all of their security. And
Speaker 2: again the security was not like the best at that time,
Speaker 2: and I understand that. But you're willing to talk to
Speaker 2: talk and walk the walk enough to where all these
Speaker 2: people will give you the stamp of approval and not
Speaker 2: ask another question.
Speaker 3: That's impressive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is slightly impressive, so not slightly majorly.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 1: Typically a case like this would have been under the
Speaker 1: jurisdiction of Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department's Criminal Investigations Bureau. However,
Speaker 1: it ended up getting handed off to the Foreign Affairs
Speaker 1: Division of the MPD's Public Security Bureau instead, where it
Speaker 1: was headed up by eventual First Cabinet Security Affairs Office
Speaker 1: chief at Siyuki Sasa, then early in his career due
Speaker 1: to what Zurgis claimed his background to be. Sasa, who
Speaker 1: in addition to his law enforcement and political career, also
Speaker 1: became a prolific writer over the course of his life,
Speaker 1: mentioned the Zergis case several times in his published works.
Speaker 1: The most detailed discussion of it, however, makes up the
Speaker 1: fourth chapter of the of his twenty sixteen book called
Speaker 1: The Spies Who Passed Me By, titled was He a
Speaker 1: Double Agent? Interesting? This book has not been translated into
Speaker 1: English and is and it is difficult to get a
Speaker 1: hold of outside of Japan. I am indebted to a
Speaker 1: May twenty twenty blog post by Hatina blog user Gryphon,
Speaker 1: which summarizes the information contained within this chapter of the book.
Speaker 1: According to Sasa, Zegris claimed to be a mobile ambassador
Speaker 1: for the Nagusi Habisi country and an American intelligence agent.
Speaker 1: When asked where Negusi Habisi was, he pointed on a
Speaker 1: map to Ethiopia and claimed it was supposed to be
Speaker 1: written in a different script, one resembling Arabic. Zegris's homemade
Speaker 1: passport was the size of a weekly of a weekly
Speaker 1: magazine per Sassa, and contained a section intended to certify
Speaker 1: its eligibility. It's eligib ability, which read negahushi nabisi Ambassador
Speaker 1: extraordinary and plenty potent chieri and roving ambassador. An ambassador
Speaker 1: who travels around the world without being stationed in one
Speaker 1: country and end quote according to.
Speaker 2: His imagine that a roving ambassador. So you're telling me
Speaker 2: that usually an ambassador is set up in a foreign
Speaker 2: country to speak on behalf of their home country.
Speaker 4: I e.
Speaker 2: When I was in France, we went to the French
Speaker 2: ambassador's house or the American ambassador's house in France.
Speaker 3: Okay, So he was an.
Speaker 2: American and the land itself that the embassy stands on
Speaker 2: is considered US land, right, just that one square section
Speaker 2: of that building. And he is there to speak to
Speaker 2: the French Prime minister on behalf of whoever the American
Speaker 2: president is. He's the emissary, he's the ambassador, he's the
Speaker 2: go between the middleman.
Speaker 3: So this guy is saying, oh, I'm that, but I
Speaker 3: just I'm a nomadic one. I go where I want.
Speaker 3: Half of Ethiopia.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe certain countries have those things.
Speaker 2: You never know, you know, that's they don't. That's not
Speaker 2: a thing at all. Actually it's I mean, but you
Speaker 2: to be stationed in a place as an ambassador. But
Speaker 2: did everybody back then know that exactly? So he got
Speaker 2: through all these airport passports, and he's a roving ambassador.
Speaker 3: So they rolled out the red carpet for him.
Speaker 1: Dude, they made it like, oh, he's a foreign dignitary,
Speaker 1: all these things.
Speaker 3: Come to find out, big swinging amiss.
Speaker 1: So, according to Zassa or Sasa rather, Zegris claimed his
Speaker 1: arrest was a violation of diplomatic privileges and demanded to
Speaker 1: be released immediately. So ergo. The case went to the
Speaker 1: Foreign Affairs Department, just you know, in case, no one
Speaker 1: wants a diplomatic crisis or an international incident on their
Speaker 1: hands if they can help it, right, so Zegris apparently
Speaker 1: claimed to have been born in the United States before
Speaker 1: moving to England via Germany and what was then Czechoslovakia,
Speaker 1: where he stayed until he completed secondary school, aim to
Speaker 1: have been a pilot in the Royal Air Force Royal
Speaker 1: Air Force during the Second World War, and spent time
Speaker 1: in prison in Germany as a pow after the end
Speaker 1: of the war. He claimed to have lived a for
Speaker 1: a time in Central and South America, to have worked
Speaker 1: as an intelligence agent for the US military in Korea,
Speaker 1: to have been a pilot in Thailand and Vietnam, and
Speaker 1: then to have joined the Arab Coalition in order to
Speaker 1: carry out a diplomatic mission for the Nagusi Habisi and
Speaker 1: quotes he goes I came to Japan to carry out
Speaker 1: a top secret mission of recruiting Japanese volunteers for the
Speaker 1: Great Arab Coalition, he said. According to SASSA, upon investigation,
Speaker 1: none of the biographical information Zegris provided could be verified.
Speaker 1: Police subsequently indicted him on the grounds of having an
Speaker 1: unknown nationality.
Speaker 3: So real, quick, couple of things.
Speaker 2: One, recruiting Japanese volunteers for the Great Arab Coalition.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's make a whole lot of sense.
Speaker 3: It does not out loud.
Speaker 2: And secondly, to all those people out there that believe
Speaker 2: in the sovereign citizen shit, and you're you have no
Speaker 2: nation and you're just traveling and whatever else. Keep in
Speaker 2: mind they arrested him and indicted him on the grounds
Speaker 2: of having an unknown nationality, because that is illegal for
Speaker 2: the record, to just be a person without a country.
Speaker 1: Yeah, anybody that believes that has to be one stupid.
Speaker 3: Fuck pun intended punintend Brandon.
Speaker 1: So anyhow, the August tenth article from the Yumuri Shimbun
Speaker 1: was published on the occasion of Zegris's sentencing and apparently
Speaker 1: attempted suicide in the court room immediately following the sentencing.
Speaker 1: He did not complete the attempt, and, following his recovery,
Speaker 1: was sentenced to one year in prison.
Speaker 2: So this is, in fact, your boy John Zegris from
Speaker 2: a Japanese newspaper looks like a regular old dude, right,
Speaker 2: And I mean, granted, I know it's a black and
Speaker 2: white and it's very blurry, and I mean the picture
Speaker 2: can only tell you so much.
Speaker 3: But but again, you could see how this dude, especially.
Speaker 2: If he's like OLLI complected and had kind of curly
Speaker 2: but not straight but not like kinky hair like this
Speaker 2: dude is, he kind of could be a racially ambiguous dude.
Speaker 3: You don't know if he's Baltic, you don't know if he's.
Speaker 1: Arabic, Greece's possibly Greek, fucking maybe a lighter skinned Italian,
Speaker 1: felt like, you don't know.
Speaker 2: But he's speaking all the right things. And apparently he's
Speaker 2: fluent in French and Japanese. That's also pretty interesting, as
Speaker 2: he's there to recruit Japanese people for the Great Arab Coalition,
Speaker 2: and there are some Arab countries that do a fair
Speaker 2: amount of French speaking, but that goes back to French
Speaker 2: colonialism and things like that.
Speaker 1: But anyway, anyway, Yeah, So the Japanese media continued to
Speaker 1: cover the strange case during that time, with major papers
Speaker 1: such as the asa Asahi Shimbun and the main e
Speaker 1: Chi Shimbun publishing stories about it through Zegris's year of imprisonment. Additionally,
Speaker 1: Atsa Yuki Sasas wrote in These Spies who Passed Me
Speaker 1: By that Zegris attempted to file a civil lawsuit from
Speaker 1: prison against the Superintendent General at the time, bunbai Haa,
Speaker 1: accusing him of embezzlement and demanding one million dollars in damages.
Speaker 1: The suit didn't go anywhere because it was absurd, and
Speaker 1: when Zegris's time was up, he was deported to Hong Kong.
Speaker 1: His wife, meanwhile, was deported home to South Korea.
Speaker 3: I will say he committed to the bit.
Speaker 2: You definitely did counter sue for a million dollar US
Speaker 2: in damages for one year of quote unquote imprisonment, which,
Speaker 2: for the record, most of that time he was in
Speaker 2: a hospital recovering from his own wrist slit situation. And
Speaker 2: when you account for the time he was already detained,
Speaker 2: the courts and all that shit, plus the recovery time,
Speaker 2: he walked away scott free.
Speaker 1: Pretty impressive. So SASA didn't know what happened to either
Speaker 1: of them after they left Japan, and they're seemingly the story.
Speaker 1: The story ends, except it doesn't, not quite. The plot thickens,
Speaker 1: you see as the story travels, and as it does so,
Speaker 1: it moves into legend as you would expect, tarred to
Speaker 1: tarred and playing telephone with the truth. The Zegra story,
Speaker 1: it turns out, initially spread much more quickly than I
Speaker 1: might have thought, as both Nataniel and Natole and Julia
Speaker 1: Lewis found Zegris related news travel globally via translated radio
Speaker 1: broadcasts as the court case unfolded. We know this because
Speaker 1: the translations are available as public record. They're in the
Speaker 1: published daily reports of the Foreign Broadcast Information Service, or
Speaker 1: the FBIS, per the University of Washington's library system. The
Speaker 1: FBIES was started in nineteen forty one with the goal
Speaker 1: of providing English language translations of radio broadcasts from foreign
Speaker 1: countries and territories of interest. The collected published reports are
Speaker 1: pretty widely available. Many of them, including the ones that
Speaker 1: are relevant to us here, are even available on Google Books.
Speaker 3: How about that?
Speaker 1: There you go and totally and I'm sure I'm saying
Speaker 1: that wrong. An it's Eoli dug up a broadcast translation
Speaker 1: in the compilation of issues one hundred and fifty six
Speaker 1: through one sixty of these daily reports, dated August tenth,
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty that describes precisely what was published in the
Speaker 1: Yoma Yurishim Bund that same day. Meanwhile, Lois or lewet
Speaker 1: is it Lewis Lois? I think Lewis Lewis located another
Speaker 1: broadcast translation in the collection featuring issues two forty nine
Speaker 1: and two fifty from nineteen sixty one, which essentially offers
Speaker 1: a two sentence summary of the entire case. And this
Speaker 1: summary is Zegris is described as a man without nationality
Speaker 1: who was sentenced to a year's imprisonment for having illegally
Speaker 1: entered Japan and passing phony checks.
Speaker 3: There you have it, but let's continue.
Speaker 1: However, there's also evidence that the case was known about
Speaker 1: in some circles sooner than August of nineteen sixty, not
Speaker 1: much sooner, but still prior to the first broadcast. First
Speaker 1: of the broadcast documented in the FBIS Daily Reports. The
Speaker 1: transcript of a speech regarding the issue of passport control
Speaker 1: given on July twenty ninth, nine teen sixty by British
Speaker 1: politician Robert Matthew, who represented Honiton now part of East
Speaker 1: Devon in the House of Commons, makes reference to the
Speaker 1: ongoing Zegras situation.
Speaker 2: Which we talked about that they were debating it in
Speaker 2: the British House of Commons at that time, because.
Speaker 3: He claimed that he went through the Britain at one
Speaker 3: point they're like, bro, what.
Speaker 1: It's this speech which introduces the key element of what
Speaker 1: will through a process, not unlike that scene in the
Speaker 1: game of Telephone, the parlor game, not the supernatural ritual?
Speaker 1: Is that? For what is the supernatural ritual called telephone?
Speaker 3: You know, like talking to smile on the other side
Speaker 3: Weisi board.
Speaker 1: Eh okay, okay makes sense eventually became Torrid. Roughly halfway
Speaker 1: through his remarks, Matthew told the following anecdote emphasis mind says,
Speaker 1: my hun friend may know the case of John Allen Zegris,
Speaker 1: who is at present being prosecuted in Tokyo. That's not
Speaker 1: you spell that in evidence.
Speaker 3: British people spell shit weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah they do in evidence. He describes himself as an
Speaker 1: intelligence agent, agent for Colonel Nasser, and a naturalized Ethiopian.
Speaker 1: This man, according to the evidence, has traveled all over
Speaker 1: the world with a very impressive looking passport. Indeed, it
Speaker 1: is written in the language unknown and it has remained unidentified,
Speaker 1: although it has been studied for a long time. Biphilologist
Speaker 1: in quotes the passport is stated to have been issued
Speaker 1: in Tama Rosset, the capital of the independent sovereign state
Speaker 1: of Torred. Neither the country nor the language can be identified,
Speaker 1: although a great deal of time has been spent in
Speaker 1: the attempt. When the accused was cross examined, he said
Speaker 1: that it was a state of two It was a
Speaker 1: state of two million populations somewhere south of the Sahara.
Speaker 1: This man has been around the world on this passport
Speaker 1: without hindrance, a passport which, as far as we know,
Speaker 1: is written in the invented language of an invented country.
Speaker 1: I would stress therefore that passports are not very good
Speaker 1: security checks.
Speaker 3: I would agree, but let's continue there.
Speaker 1: It is Torrid tua RD for what it's worth. I'm
Speaker 1: not actually sure where Matthew got all of that stuff
Speaker 1: about Tamaroset or Torrid from. It's not present in any
Speaker 1: of the contemporary Japanese reports or sources that documented the case,
Speaker 1: but I suppose it may have come up in the
Speaker 1: understanding of global geography at the time. Regardless, it is
Speaker 1: pretty clear that Matthew made some errors here. Tamarosets does exist,
Speaker 1: but the spelling is incorrect. Tamar Rossett is the typical
Speaker 1: rendering of the city's name in the Latin alphabet. It's
Speaker 1: the capital city of Tamaroset Province, which is located in
Speaker 1: the southern region of Algeria. Meanwhile, Torrid is believed to
Speaker 1: be a fumbling of Torreg as well as a misunderstanding
Speaker 1: of what the word Torreg actually refers to. It's not
Speaker 1: an independent sovereign state, as Matthew seems to have thought
Speaker 1: it was. But the name of a people. To sum up,
Speaker 1: Tamarasset is a place populated by the Torreg people, not
Speaker 1: a place located in the Torrid or Torreg region.
Speaker 2: So here we have a map again, Algeria is this Tamarasset,
Speaker 2: And apparently tau Regg is a tribe that lives there.
Speaker 2: And I don't mean tribe to make it sound like
Speaker 2: it's not to undercut by any means. But again, a
Speaker 2: lot of air nations are extremely clandestine and their tribal
Speaker 2: belonging means a lot to them.
Speaker 1: To pull out my Matthew Lillard from the first screen movie.
Speaker 1: But wait, there's more, not long or not too long
Speaker 1: after the House of Common Speech, the Yeoman Yuri Shimbun
Speaker 1: article and the fbis broadcast a Canadian paper, a tabloid
Speaker 1: based out of Vancouver, the Province, picked up the story.
Speaker 1: On August fifteenth, nineteen sixty, an article titled Man with
Speaker 1: his Own Country appeared on page four detailing exploits and
Speaker 1: adventures of John Allen Coucher Zegris as he's identified. The article,
Speaker 1: which was first connected to the Bigger Picture by Nataniel Anatole,
Speaker 1: including the following information about Zegris so in quotes. John
Speaker 1: claimed to be a naturalized Ethiopian and an intelligence agent
Speaker 1: for Colonel Nassar. The passport was stamped as issued at Tamarasset,
Speaker 1: the capital of Torrid south of the Sahara. Any places
Speaker 1: so romantically named ought to exist, but they don't. John
Speaker 1: Allen Coocherzegris invented them. This information matches that that contained
Speaker 1: within Matthew's speech, with some slight alterations. On the plus side,
Speaker 1: Tama Rossett is spelled correctly this time. However, it's still
Speaker 1: mistakenly referred to as the capital of a region rather
Speaker 1: than a place populated by a specific people. But the
Speaker 1: main thing to notice is this what Matthew called Torrid
Speaker 1: has now been rendered as tor Red, so instead of
Speaker 1: t ua r Id.
Speaker 2: It would be t ua r Ed exactly. And again,
Speaker 2: we did read that entire article just a few minutes ago,
Speaker 2: but let's continue.
Speaker 1: Well, it's not exactly difficult to see how one might
Speaker 1: get from tor Red to tour Red, is it? So
Speaker 1: that's where you come into a parallel universe and a
Speaker 1: locked room mystery or how fact becomes fishing. But wait,
Speaker 1: there's even more, as anatotally pointed out and a Reddit
Speaker 1: post in twenty twenty. Story appears in several of Jacques
Speaker 1: Jacques Burgear's books, which were primarily published in the nineteen
Speaker 1: sixties and seventies. Indeed, Burgear may have been the first
Speaker 1: to introduce some of the elements of the Man from
Speaker 1: Torrid tale, as it was by the time I heard
Speaker 1: about it back in twenty fifteen, and Attioli noted that
Speaker 1: he found reference to Torrid in Burghear's nineteen seventy four
Speaker 1: Mysteries of the Earth book. I believe I was unable
Speaker 1: to get a hold of that particular volume, but I
Speaker 1: did locate extraterrestrial visitations from prehistoric times to the present
Speaker 1: another book, also published in nineteen fifty four, and found
Speaker 1: it to be present there as well. Burgear four What
Speaker 1: did I Say? Fifty four oh seventy four. Burgear's version
Speaker 1: uses the tor red spelling tua r D as opposed
Speaker 1: to tau r D, but he moves the date of
Speaker 1: the events from fifty nine and sixty to nineteen fifty four,
Speaker 1: when they're typically said to have happened in modern tellings
Speaker 1: of the Ledge, and he introduces the hotel to the story.
Speaker 1: The mystery man doesn't appear from the hotel room, though
Speaker 1: rather he's located within within it when government officials arrived
Speaker 1: to verify his passport. In this telling, the government supposedly
Speaker 1: ordered the passports of all foreigners residing in Japan to
Speaker 1: be verified in response to a series of riots believed
Speaker 1: to have been instigated by foreigners. The mystery man with
Speaker 1: the Torrid passport keeps insisting his story to be true,
Speaker 1: although he is unable to convince anyone to believe him.
Speaker 1: He has eventually left. He is eventually left in quotes,
Speaker 1: shut up in a Japanese psychiatric hospital end quotes per
Speaker 1: Burgear's version of the story, where I assume we're meant
Speaker 1: to believe he has remained ever since. Okay, interesting, So
Speaker 1: tour Red finally became Torrid in Colin Wilson and John
Speaker 1: Grant's nineteen eighty one book called The Directory of Possibilities,
Speaker 1: although as I previously noted, there's just a simple or
Speaker 1: just a single sentence mentioning the story there in quotes
Speaker 1: and in nineteen fifty four, passport check in Japan is
Speaker 1: alleged to have produced demand with papers issued by the
Speaker 1: Nation of Torrid end quotes, and sometimes sometime between then
Speaker 1: and roughly twenty thirteen the story had developed into what
Speaker 1: we would eventually come to know as the full Man
Speaker 1: from Torrid incident, featuring the locked hotel room element, the
Speaker 1: mysterious vanishing, and the proposal of a parallel universe being
Speaker 1: at play. I know nineteen eighty one to twenty thirteen
Speaker 1: is a long gap. Unfortunately I don't have the resources
Speaker 1: needed available to me in order to trace exactly what
Speaker 1: happened in a tale during that space of time. I
Speaker 1: would imagine, though, that it developed much the way every
Speaker 1: urban legend does, with the story getting passed on from
Speaker 1: storyteller to storyteller, each embellishing it a little as they
Speaker 1: told it, until eventually it made it made its way
Speaker 1: onto the Internet.
Speaker 3: Fair enough, possibly.
Speaker 1: Thanks to the legwork of researchers Nathaniel and Atotally ananyj,
Speaker 1: Julia Lewis, and Terry Iachi. Though it does seem pretty
Speaker 1: indisputable that the Man from Toward urban legend did in
Speaker 1: fact grow out of the real life story of John Zegris.
Speaker 1: He wasn't a man from a parallel universe. He was
Speaker 1: just your run of the mill con man. I often
Speaker 1: say that some mysteries are better left unsolved. But this
Speaker 1: time I'd argue that it paid off for me. The
Speaker 1: story of how the mystery got solved is just as
Speaker 1: fascinating as the story told within the legend itself. Now, then,
Speaker 1: who's up for a trip? The whole wide world is
Speaker 1: waiting as long as you've got as long as you've
Speaker 1: got your passport handy.
Speaker 2: Nice indeed, So this is kind of where we're at
Speaker 2: with it all. I do, in fact, believe that you
Speaker 2: know a little bit. However, in a weird turn of events,
Speaker 2: I should bring this up from the urban legend, the
Speaker 2: spot that the man pointed to on the map of
Speaker 2: Andorra right the small my growth state for lack of
Speaker 2: better words, between France and Spain. What if I tell
Speaker 2: you that there is in fact a section of it
Speaker 2: called Torrid.
Speaker 1: That would be an interesting turn of events.
Speaker 2: So right here, I have a YouTube clip pulled up
Speaker 2: and it shows and Dora on the map, which anybody
Speaker 2: could look up. This Torred is spelled t a U
Speaker 2: R e ed, which again was when it made its conversion.
Speaker 3: Watch this dude. Sorry about the music on this one.
Speaker 3: I didn't choose it, but.
Speaker 2: Torred is a spot. It actually does exist. This building
Speaker 2: which I don't. I don't really know what the building
Speaker 2: is per se. I don't know if this is a
Speaker 2: government building or if this is what. But the fact
Speaker 2: is that Taurrid does in fact exist within the region
Speaker 2: that he pointed to on the map, according to the
Speaker 2: urban legend.
Speaker 1: Well, damn, now I'm interested in what that place actually is.
Speaker 1: I tried looking it up, dude, and I couldn't get
Speaker 1: a street view on it.
Speaker 2: But I mean, again, we don't know if that building
Speaker 2: is a more modern building that was only built in
Speaker 2: the last couple of decades, or if it does pre
Speaker 2: date back.
Speaker 3: To the nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties or whatever else.
Speaker 1: But what an interesting coincidence it would be. Then do
Speaker 1: we believe in those though I generally don't know.
Speaker 3: This is where I'm at with the dude.
Speaker 2: So again, John Allen kuchar Zegris, And yeah, this name
Speaker 2: has been taken quite a few different directions and in
Speaker 2: quite a few different ways. Here we already talked about
Speaker 2: the urban legends, we talked about the whole backstory to
Speaker 2: it all. Here's the deal, and this is kind of
Speaker 2: where I'm at with it. I'm not even saying that
Speaker 2: was he a fraudster, sure, no doubt, but I think
Speaker 2: there might be a little bit more to the story
Speaker 2: than what we originally hear when we think of that, Okay,
Speaker 2: he was just traveling and cashing fake checks, and he
Speaker 2: was just on a on a mission to tour the
Speaker 2: world for free and all these things. It's very interesting
Speaker 2: to me that he claimed to be a roaming ambassador,
Speaker 2: which like, especially if you're claiming to be an ambassador
Speaker 2: from Ethiopia, you realize that Japan has a line of
Speaker 2: communication with Ethiopia. They could have just picked up the
Speaker 2: phone and called the Ethiopian Foreign Affairs minister and asked him, Hey,
Speaker 2: is this your guy? But so many countries never did.
Speaker 2: They just rolled out the red carpet for him and
Speaker 2: let him through. Cause why would why would somebody lie
Speaker 2: about that? Why would some io I lie about being
Speaker 2: an ambassador from you know, Algeria, Ethiopia, Egypt for on
Speaker 2: behalf of the Arab coalition?
Speaker 3: Who would lie about that? It nobody really questioned it.
Speaker 2: I think it's more than probable, especially whenever he brought
Speaker 2: up the name of Colonel Nassar, and then he also
Speaker 2: brought up that he was Ethiopian as well.
Speaker 3: And like I said, this wasn't a.
Speaker 2: It wasn't without its controversy during this time, right, especially
Speaker 2: when you keep in mind, so Israel was founded in
Speaker 2: nineteen forty eight, they had a six day war that
Speaker 2: took place. Egypt was a part of that, and this
Speaker 2: guy's claiming to be working on behalf of Colonel Nassar.
Speaker 2: I think that he might have been a spy for
Speaker 2: lack of better words, And I think that because he
Speaker 2: was a spy from a country that was broke as fuck,
Speaker 2: that he was forging checks to get from.
Speaker 3: Point A to point B.
Speaker 2: I think that he was also a master forger, and
Speaker 2: that that was a part of him being a spy
Speaker 2: for whom, for what purpose? Why was he going to Tokyo?
Speaker 2: Your guess is as good as mine. It's all within
Speaker 2: the realm of hypothetical and speculation and all of this.
Speaker 2: But for him to go to the levels that he
Speaker 2: did and then walk away scott free. You just tried
Speaker 2: to defund or to basically defraud, two major bank institutions.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it was only for a few thousand dollars, fine,
Speaker 2: But the fact is that you just tried to commit
Speaker 2: international fraud and lied about who you were lied about
Speaker 2: a passport, all these things. If somebody was to do
Speaker 2: that these days, dude, they would immediately be brought down
Speaker 2: for terrorism, Like, without question, that's it.
Speaker 3: This guy basically walked out scott free.
Speaker 2: I'm wondering did the Japanese government receive a phone call
Speaker 2: from somebody from some unnamed country.
Speaker 3: And say, Hey, you're gonna release that guy.
Speaker 2: He's gonna get on a plane, he's gonna come back home,
Speaker 2: and you're just gonna not talk about it, which would
Speaker 2: also lead more credence to why Japan wouldn't publicize this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, look good cult members. I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: it's up to speculation. Do you think that he was
Speaker 1: just a you know, a con artist doing it on
Speaker 1: his own accord? Was he trying to get rich because
Speaker 1: you know, he was frauding some money out right, like
Speaker 1: he was basically stealing money. And I mean, but there
Speaker 1: seems to be a lot to this story that I
Speaker 1: think I just need to take a little time to
Speaker 1: think about for a little bit, because I guess it
Speaker 1: does make sense that he would be a spy, but
Speaker 1: it would also make sense that he would be doing
Speaker 1: it on his own accord as well. So and if
Speaker 1: that's the case, I mean, just how many times did
Speaker 1: he get away with it?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: Like and as far as the different passport stamps, I
Speaker 1: almost wonder if he ever even actually got through or
Speaker 1: if that was part of the fraud as well. You know,
Speaker 1: I mean, how hard would it be to just go
Speaker 1: to an airport and you know, grab the the person
Speaker 1: checking people on, just to grab their attention from somebody else,
Speaker 1: and somebody else takes the passport stamp, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Or I mean because usually I mean, fuck,
Speaker 1: you just brought up an abag nail. He was printing
Speaker 1: like real money, you know what I mean, Like, how
Speaker 1: hard could it be to like forge a stamp?
Speaker 2: Absolutely right? And that's very possible too. But keep in
Speaker 2: mind he also had foreign money in his pocket. Now
Speaker 2: that's not crazy, right, You can go to a bank
Speaker 2: and exchange depending on where you go, Like I know
Speaker 2: in Washington, DC, when you would go to the mall,
Speaker 2: there was a whole kiosk there just to transfer foreign
Speaker 2: money to US dollars so that you could go shop. Right,
Speaker 2: It's very very possible that he went to a very
Speaker 2: similar spot in Tokyo and transferred and got you know
Speaker 2: x amount of dollars worth of francs and of German
Speaker 2: marks and of whatever. Because keep in mind, this is
Speaker 2: before the euro was a thing. The European Union was
Speaker 2: only founded in the early nineties. I want to say
Speaker 2: ninety three, memory serves me right. So back in these days,
Speaker 2: each individual country had their own individual money. It's possible
Speaker 2: that he went to a money exchanger and got all
Speaker 2: these dollar bills. It's also possible that he got through
Speaker 2: security in all of these other countries throughout the Arab world,
Speaker 2: throughout Europe, was able to bring back all these stories
Speaker 2: and these passports and all this shit. It's possible that
Speaker 2: he was so good at forgery that he actually made
Speaker 2: it through so many of them. And I guess Tokyo
Speaker 2: was just the one spot that was like, hey, wait
Speaker 2: a minute, homy, let me talk to you for a
Speaker 2: little minute.
Speaker 3: What is this?
Speaker 2: Why is this thing the size of a magazine. That's
Speaker 2: not what passports are. Oh, well, in my home country,
Speaker 2: all of them are like that. And it's like, and
Speaker 2: what country is that?
Speaker 3: Oh, Torrid obviously never heard of the Kingdom of Torrid.
Speaker 2: Bro No, I haven't. I meant I am a roaming
Speaker 2: ambassador from Egypt. I'm working for Colonel Nasser even though
Speaker 2: I'm from Ethiopia.
Speaker 5: Bro.
Speaker 3: Wait, wait, wait, back back then, what are you talking about.
Speaker 3: Don't worry.
Speaker 2: I am a roaming ambassador and this is an international charge.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna sue you for a million dollars if you
Speaker 2: don't release me right now.
Speaker 3: It's like, let's it's like a little walk, buddy, let's
Speaker 3: let's have a little chat. I could see that being
Speaker 3: the case too.
Speaker 1: And some people are so good at lying to convince
Speaker 1: themselves that the lie is true, you know. So I
Speaker 1: don't know. Some people live crazy lives through crazy perspectives
Speaker 1: of which we're never gonna fully understand, you know, like
Speaker 1: in the to to like take a walk inside somebody
Speaker 1: else's mind, even just a normal person, bro, Like you
Speaker 1: know how shocking the world would would be so different,
Speaker 1: you know, just if you were to, you know, essentially
Speaker 1: like put your consciousness inside the mind of another human, right.
Speaker 3: Likedy, shit, dude, fuck you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It'd be crazy. But yeah, dude, I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: inclined to believe that he was some sort of spy.
Speaker 1: Good cult members let us know. There are several ways
Speaker 1: that you can.
Speaker 3: Let us know.
Speaker 1: One of the best places is over at Patreon, as
Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier, but there's a couple of other ways
Speaker 1: to do it as well.
Speaker 2: Indeed, as we were talking about, you know, defrauding banks
Speaker 2: and things like that, listen, we know we don't trust
Speaker 2: the banks.
Speaker 3: We never have trusted the banks. That old you're old.
Speaker 2: You're Paul, Paul that used to bury his money in
Speaker 2: the backyard because he won't be trusting them bank institutions. Listen,
Speaker 2: whether you want to acknowledge it or not, Papaul was
Speaker 2: kind of on one. Okay, he knew a thing or
Speaker 2: two about a thing or two because he lived through
Speaker 2: the Great Depression. He had seen the hard times, and
Speaker 2: those hard times are coming. It's mathematical facts. And before
Speaker 2: you get your money all wrapped up in the digital
Speaker 2: currency and the crypton and all these things, listen, do.
Speaker 3: What you're gonna do with your money.
Speaker 2: I get that, But when our economic system falls, you're
Speaker 2: gonna want some sort of a tangible thing in your
Speaker 2: pocket that's worth some money. Right, whether it's in the
Speaker 2: gun safe and your bank safety deposit box or in
Speaker 2: fact buried in your backyard, you're gonna want some sort
Speaker 2: of a tangible thing that is worth some real value.
Speaker 2: When the time comes, talk to your financial advisor and
Speaker 2: ask them what they think about precious metals, the silver,
Speaker 2: the gold, the platinum, all these things, and I guarantee
Speaker 2: they're gonna tell you that it's a pretty wise investment
Speaker 2: for at least a port your retirement portfolio. And the
Speaker 2: best place to get your start in the buying and
Speaker 2: selling of gold and silver, boy, you would be to
Speaker 2: go to the link in the description below to cecsilver
Speaker 2: dot com when you fill out your information. Our homeboy,
Speaker 2: Wayne Clark's gonna be the one to reach out to
Speaker 2: you and get you squared away. Do you want to
Speaker 2: buy a little bit, you want to buy a lot
Speaker 2: of bit, whatever the case may be. Do you want
Speaker 2: to become a distributor of silver and gold? Your damn self.
Speaker 2: Wayne is gonna be the guy to talk to you
Speaker 2: about all these things. Once again, talk to your financial advisor,
Speaker 2: talk to your CPA, your account and whatever. Ask them
Speaker 2: what they think about it. Don't just take my word
Speaker 2: for it, take their word for it. Gold is over
Speaker 2: three thousand dollars an ounce. It's very expensive. Not everybody's
Speaker 2: just got that burning a hole in their pocket, and
Speaker 2: that's asking for an ounce of gold. However, silver is
Speaker 2: still affordable. It's still attainable for your average Joe. Blow
Speaker 2: before it's skyrockets to a level that you'll never be
Speaker 2: able to afford.
Speaker 3: Get some now once again. Link is in the description
Speaker 3: ccsilver dot com.
Speaker 2: But, like Jonathan was saying, a way that you could
Speaker 2: let us know what you think about the man from
Speaker 2: tour it is he a time traveler? Is it a
Speaker 2: parallel universe type of situation? Is it an international spy?
Speaker 2: Is he an absolute fraud and a charlatan? Listen, we
Speaker 2: want to hear from you. The best place to let
Speaker 2: us know where would be too Please hit the five story,
Speaker 2: hit the shares, the lights, scrites, comments, leave a post,
Speaker 2: reviewers shares, hit their friends and family, shares everywhere.
Speaker 3: Here is the deal.
Speaker 2: The more activity the algorithms across all of our listening platforms,
Speaker 2: the more we get promoted, the more potential.
Speaker 3: Listeners who could that become potential cult members. But the
Speaker 3: rest of you, fine ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 2: Why are you ready go check out the metabistics Jonons
Speaker 2: of the show and getting the same love of respect
Speaker 2: over there with the five star reviews and the positivity.
Speaker 3: In the comments. Come check out the Cage to Night.
Speaker 2: Hey, come join you to listen more individual patrons that
Speaker 2: we host every Wednesday night at ie PM Central.
Speaker 3: Links to those are in the description as well. And
Speaker 3: we thank you. Everybody's already gone and done so.
Speaker 1: And with that being said, this was another beautiful episode
Speaker 1: of the Cults of Conspiracy. And my name's Jonathan, I'm
Speaker 1: Jack And there's one very important, sure, the vital piece
Speaker 1: of information we need you to learn just as soon
Speaker 1: as human as possible.
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