Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Siko's I am Dana Valley coming
at you with the One the Only mister Mortensen of
the NBA podcast, fame of Yahoo Sports, fame of Forbes,
his fame, and of most importantly only fans, celebrity. Moret
is back from a much needed break, while Grant is
away on a much needed break, and we're trying to
figure out what's to talk about today. We were gonna
do teams that have unfinished business, but we decided not
to short shrift everybody. We're gonna do every team and
talk about unfinished business that they have, break it up
into the East and the West. If you are watching this,
per the title, it is the Western Conference we begin
with before we get started, though, first and foremost, we're
always working through some potential mic issues. So if anyone's
not hearing us as well on YouTube is where it
seems to be the biggest issue, let you know and
I will adjust in real time. But this is an
impromptu stream, so maybe nobody he's watching this is all
I would say. But second, and actually most importantly more,
how the heck are you doing?
Speaker 2: I'm doing very very well. As you can see, I
finally have a slightly different background now because my wife
started actually putting the the entire cupboard up and like
or not, what do you call it, like the whole thing. Yeah, closet,
the clauset. There we go, thank you. Yes, I'm tired.
I've look, I've been I've been doing. I've been on vacation, Dan,
I haven't even spoken English all that much for a change.
That's really weird, Like I'm trying to remember words that
just came out. Like there was a point in time
during the regular season where I had an argument with
my wife, not a fight, an argument, and all of
a sudden, she told me, you do know you've been
speaking English to me for the past twenty minutes, right.
I was like what? And I just switched switched over,
And now I'm having a hard time switching over to
actual English. I think my mind and my brain just
needed the time off. So I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: Good for you. So anyone who doesn't know that More
doesn't live in America. He's from West Vermont, so like
the western part of Vermont. So that's why he wasn't
speaking English. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. We're glad
that you got a break. I will say I have
one complaint about the background, as it feels like you're
now adding layers to the equation. Not only are you
wearing more clothes, but now you've actively put more clothes
behind you. It kind of ruins the only fans mystique
of it all. So that was my one complaint.
Speaker 2: I know, it's actually it's been windy today, so it's
been very like it's tempered weather, which I greatly appreciate
because like, it's just been so warm. We came back
from Spain a couple of weeks ago as well, Like
it's it's been a hot summer. So for me to
actually have it have it a little bit cool was nice.
But I did know that by wearing a polo shirt
I would disappoint you greatly. I didn't know that, and
I feel bad about it. Dan, So after the show
is done, I'll show a little something.
Speaker 1: Something thank you, and look, I might get hot and
bothered anyway, because before I jumped on our Central Air
kind of was doing something finicky. All I can say
is that thousands of dollars well spent within the past
eighteen months on something that's a little bit finicky. That's
not why people are here to talk. We're gonna go
alphabetically through the Western Conference. The one rule I set
that I didn't tell more about, but I'm sure that
he could have guessed it based off the list I
sent him is we buy and large. Unless I just
didn't really find anything else interesting. We're steering clear of
like the rookie extension business, like the Christian Brown, the
Keegan Murray, like those dudes. We want to see if
they get deals, but a lot of times that doesn't
really happen until training camp comes back. Anyway, So we're
gonna try and focus on other parts of unfinished business.
Speaker 2: And yet you have penciled in Tarry Easton to talk about.
Speaker 1: As an honorable mention with the Rockets. Oh so that
was not the main squeeze, as you will see. Let's
get started, though. We begin with the Dallas Mavericks mort
this one, I mean, speaking of almost training camp opening PG.
Washington can sign an extension. I think it's now. So
for anyone who's listening, cat projections get a little weird.
I'm just basing it off seven percent projections. I know
everyone else has ten percent baked in, but I'm an
alarmist by trade. So it went up seven percent this year.
That's what I'm penciling it in for for the future.
It can be like four years, eighty six, eighty seven
million dollars. Can't sign it, I think until August twenty ninth.
The Mavericks are one of the most fascinating teams in
the league. More just when you look at the Kyrie
Irving injury. They have Cooper Flag, they have Anthony Davis,
They're huge, they have enough offense. What are you doing
if you're the MAVs about the PJ Washington extension or
just PJ Washington in general.
Speaker 2: Look, PJ is not an old guy. Like he's twenty six,
about to be twenty seven. I think he is one
of those very crucial players that you need when you
have an old team. And like this is a team
that's trying to balance like the development of Cooper Flag
and Derek Lively. Let's not forget about Derek Lively, but
that at the same time, yeah, right, and like you're
still playing a ton of minutes at like Ad Kyrie
when he comes back, Klay Thompson, right, Like they're even
Caleb Martin who's only thirty. I think, but he plays
like if he's thirty four, So I'm just gonna count that.
Like they have this core of old, old players, and
sometimes you just need in prime guys to sort of
like bridge that gap, I think, the age gap. And
that makes PJ. Washington so so crucial because you know
he's not on decline, he's not necessarily on his way up,
like you can probably expect a very similar level of
production as last year, and he was good last year.
I think he was one of those guys who flew
under the radar a little bit when Luca got traded.
Obviously that was all the hoopla there. Then they win
the flag lotteries like those who have been the primary
storylines driven out of Dallas, where with PJ sort of
flying under the radar. Yeah, I would probably try to
extend him. The number is what's curious, right, because we've
seen a lot of veteran extensions where we're kind of going, oh, like,
the player didn't get as much as we might have expected,
and that's one of those consequences of a first a print,
second a print situation. So I'm not going to see
to her and say, oh, PJ. Washington should get like
twenty twenty five million a year, because I have no
idea what the market is trying to like peck him at.
If he walks away with like sixteen million a year,
I would feel that was low, but I like that
that is the world we might be living in. So
the actual number is going to be pretty hard for me,
at least to try to project.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he's eligible. This is what's getting really freaky
is that you look at his salary that he signed
for as a restricted free agent with Charlotte, it's below
the league's league's average, and so he's eligible for that
one hundred and forty of the league's average salary extension.
I don't know, I'm with you. I don't know if
he hit the open market in a like this when
you've gotten four for ninety, I don't know, just because
of how few teams had cap space. But I think
next summer, when you look at maybe a half dozen
teams or more, maybe having the ability to offer that,
I think four for eighty six eighty seven is probably
more than reasonable. And if I'm the MAVs, I am
gonna offer maybe not the full four years, maybe you
go three three years out on that might be the way.
But I think look, especially this season, if you're looking
to do something when you don't have Kyrie Irving until January, February,
whatever it ends up being, and you have Cooper Flag developing.
He is someone who, aside from Anthony Davis, aside from
d Low, who in theory is oh, maybe not create
his own shop and maybe punish some mismatches do things
as a driver, he's like so he I think you
can make the case that despite their size, despite their
defensive ceiling, he's more important than this season than he's
been the previous you know, year and change that he's
been with him.
Speaker 2: I have a question for you about.
Speaker 1: I probably don't have an answer, but ask away.
Speaker 2: I think, well, I think you might have an idea
because we all know about ad Is insisting upon I'm
a four, I'm not a five all that. Like PJ
has primarily played the four, a little bit of five,
very little bit of five, but like primarily four throughout
the course of his career. Is this one of those
situations where the MAVs should just basically say, well, you
know what, Anthony, It's positions are meaningless, it's fine, and
just blame him at center anyway, or should they try
to put PJ down a slot because that I would
feel not great about PJ as a three where he
has a run around and chase, you know, quicker athletes.
I think he's fine. I think he's a perfectly fine defender.
But I do wonder if you make it his full
time gig to chase three men or big shooting guards,
for example, and have him run around screens. I don't
think you're gonna get the best version of him, So
like how to solve that?
Speaker 1: So I actually don't worry about that as much, especially
if you're gonna have Anthony Davis plus Gafford or Lively
as a backstop for him. And I think we saw
a good amount of it last season anyway. But I
think what you touch on that I find fascinating is
you are leaving to me a lot of meat and
potatoes on the table if you are saying, oh, Anthony
Davis is gonna be a four, because you need to
get the lineups where it's not just a D and PJ. Washington,
but it's like a D and then Cooper Flagg is
your four. So that's where Cooper Flagg might do a
lot of his damage too on offense. So I'm totally
in agreement with the point there for you. I think
with PJ specifically though, kind of whatever version of the
lineup you want to see, he might need to be
the day facto three though when you look at them,
like in the minutes, okay, where both of your where
there's only one big and Cooper flag on the bench. Sure,
but like we're not. I mean, i'd be shocked, or
I won't be shocked, but I'm assuming some some injuries
have gone down in Dallas. If we see like any
PJ Washington in the five this year though, that's.
Speaker 2: For sure, agreed, agreed, that would that would be weird.
It's just like, I feel like they're a little top heavy,
so I just want to see how this shakes out.
Speaker 1: They're I don't know, they're kind of sneaky deep.
Speaker 2: Like Sorry, when I'm meant top heavy, I meant like
the big, big position, Oh, the top position. Sorry, that
was a very bad wording on my part.
Speaker 1: Well, it's also just like Naji Marshall is what like
they are? So I think you could get to lineups
where just like there's no point guard, like it's Cooper
Flagg him and everyone's just it's like it's Naugy Marshall
and pj and then a D and then whatever big
you want. I don't know what that looks like offensively,
but I think defensively that could be an absolute terror.
So we're both in agreement. He should get an extension.
If you had to predict before we move on, do
you think he signs one? Or I'll say, let me
say this, I'm gonna set the over under that he
gets a three year or a four year extension would
be my prediction.
Speaker 2: I'm actually just gonna say under right now. I hope
I'm wrong though, because I like pj PG should get paid.
He's a good player. But maybe the Mavericks are looking
at this situation and going, yeah, we need to we
need to make sure that that position is clear for
us moving forward because of flag Now the point you
could just extend him and then trade him later though.
Speaker 1: Well that's what I was going to bring up is
that if you're the Mavericks, are you reticent to extend
him now, because then he wouldn't be if you're giving
him more than that twenty percent raise. So maybe that's
the middle ground is do you just try and offer
one hundred and twenty percents that you could still trade
him this season. Otherwise, if he's signing it August twenty nine,
he won't be trade eligible this season. And we don't know.
I'm not saying Dallas needs to go out and make
a blockbuster move, but he's one of their best assets
as both a player and an expiring contract. If they
want to go do anything on.
Speaker 2: The trade market, well, honestly, do you really need to
trade him this year? In that case, like, you could
make a reasonable argument that he could he could spend
the entire year in Dallas and then you could just
flip in the summertime.
Speaker 1: Legend famboy one oh one PJ to the Lakers. I mean,
if they want to trade for Lebron James, he'd be
like a nice salary slot to the street. That's the
only way I would think that happened. I don't think
LA is to give Dallas another first round pick for
PJ Washington, but right, and that's also they don't need
the like the Lakers don't need PJ. Like as long
as Lebron and Luca like PJ. Washington's not someone and
Ruey is there, they don't need They don't. Next up
because we're going alphabetically is the Denver Nuggets. So I
kind of have two questions for them, because one, I
don't think people are gonna appreciate except for maybe more.
Are they gonna duck the tax? We'll start here more
before the offseason is over. They haven't until the end
of the year to do it. But just based off
what spo track has this at, it looks like because
of Cam Johnson's not strictly because but because of his
likely contract incentives he is, they are going to be
a little bit into the tax, like right now, it's like, yeah,
so is that something you just duck now to get
it over with. They also were and hat tip Ryan Blackburn,
I think he did it at Lockdown Nuggets for pointing
this out because of the way they did the Valanchounis
trade with him going into a trade exception, they're actually
not hardcapped at the first apron. Now, I think that's
a lot of like all pomp, no circumstance type deal
where I don't expect them to Actually I think they're
gonna duct the tax eventually. I think that's what they're
gonna do. Yes, But they do have a lot of
different ways that they could go because of the way
they did structure their offseason.
Speaker 2: Right, So what we have to remember here is this
isn't just a payment of Yeah, so what would their
tax bill be like a million one point two million
something along those lines? According to spot track, that is
not the full calculus. The full calculus is what you're
giving up in not getting in from tax paying teams,
right like that, So what would that be like eleven
twelve million that you would get in by just not
being a tax team. That is ultimately the big math thing.
I don't think I've ever seen a team that's like
four hundred k over the tax line which just didn't
dodge it. But I do have a theory that's.
Speaker 1: The Pelicans area where it's just like they're they're like
always five million bucks or less, like oh way from
or into the tax Doesn't it always feel that way.
Speaker 2: That's a good point though, Yeah, they.
Speaker 1: Actually and I think as we record this Spelcans it
might be like five and a half million dollars below
the tax line, so that actually fits.
Speaker 2: But like I do have a theory because last year
Deron Holmes didn't play obviously was that the see was
it the acl or is it an achilles achilles? He
had that was the worst one.
Speaker 1: He looked good in summer league though.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So if he gets regular minutes, that's when I
think you're trying to see if theories that take it
for Sikh Nashi and like I have this sneakest suspicion
that are actually going to try to place seek early
on in the season just to see, like can he
just produce for a few games, Like can he string
together games where he produced it at a certain level,
not to like, oh, let's make it part of a rotation,
but like, are there any takers, like anyone, anyone on
the line, anyone, Bueller, come on, go get him?
Speaker 1: Do you so? So? One to add on to what
you were talking about. As part of their calculus, the
other thing they're thinking about with the tax is this
is just another year where it doesn't start the repeater clock.
And so if they're looking to kind of stay out
of the tach like that's a big deal. So they
are going to duckt the tacks. What they could do
is wave and stretched Zeke nach By. I think it's
August twenty ninth is the date this year, so they
would just have like three point million dollars on their
books for the next seven years, then you comfortably duck
the tax I would be vehemently against that. I just don't.
I know it's a small amount, but as look at
what we're talking about right now, these thin margins matter,
especially for these really good teams. I want to ask you,
I think Nuggets fans would be against this, but I'm
curious if even the team that I'm suggesting it would
be for this, would you consider doing something like Peyton
Watson and Zeke Naj for just Iodssummu? Is that enough
for the Bulls to say We'll take on the rest
of Zeke Naj Peyton Watson's in a contract year as well.
I think Watson's the higher upside player, but I think
Iodsumu is better right now. He will probably be cheaper
in his next contract as well. Who do you think
says no to something like that?
Speaker 2: A zone signa and Peyton Watson for Io. Yeah, that's
like the Bulls take on a Bluche here, right.
Speaker 1: I mean they take on it's like ten million versus
seven million or whatever it ends up being, or maybe
it's twelve million versus whatever you could game it to
make the math work. But the Zeke Nagy, like this year,
they even after they resigned Josh Giddy, the Bulls should
have a ton of legal re under the tacks. It's, oh,
do you want three more years of Zeke Nagy on your.
Speaker 2: What you're really doing here, You're you're actually paying the
Bulls Peyton Watson to.
Speaker 1: Get off Nase but also to get iOS right exactly.
Speaker 2: I don't hate that. I don't. I will say I
Peyton Watson is still intriguing to me. He really is,
And I think I think the jury has been a
little premature in just saying that he's not a guy
like I do like Io, don't get me wrong, and
next to Jokic, I think he'd be a lot of fun.
He'd also be insurance, well, a little bit of insurance.
If Jamal is like inconsistent over a stretch of the
of the regular season, like you can sort of say, okay,
we need consistency at the point guard position. Let's move
Jamal a little bit more to the two over the
next couple of games where he's not handling the ball
as much, where his play isn't as ass dynamic, so
there are some interesting parts there. Payton Watson is a
big name though, Like if you could, if you could
somehow convince the Bulls of doing it with someone else,
maybe Strawther, that's that could also be.
Speaker 1: I mean you could offer your twenty thirty two second still,
so if that crush Strawther is on the table, I
mean they're taking on less money in that scenario. Two.
But I don't, like I was a really good player.
And my other question was, like or move that they
might need to address is do you think they need
another backup like a backup point guard or a backup
ball handler here or do you think just combination of okay,
yogic exists. We can run some stuff through Aaron Gordon,
we have Jamal Murray, we have Bruce Brown. Do you
think that that's just it's enough to be a good team?
Lot get Like the Nuggets are gonna be no worse
than the second best team in the West. I think
maybe third, depending on if you about the Rockets.
Speaker 2: Right. So, so the addition of Bruce Brown to me
unlocked a ton because like he knows a lot of
these guys, Like there's a level of comfort there. I
think he's a better ball handler than people, you know,
making an out ass in this because over the past
two years, he he went for the back and that's fine. Like,
I don't think we should at any point blame him
for going for the bag, but he did, and we
never really saw like the Bruce Brown that we saw
during the championship year in Denver. I think with him
coming back, we're gonna be reminded, Oh, this guy is good.
This guy can do a bunch of things. And I
wouldn't even rule out Strawther if they keep him around
as another guy who can handle the ball, like not
as a as someone who's like a table setter and
like well average of his sister or something. But he's
pretty decent on the ball as well, Like he can
dribble the ball up the floor, he can initiate someone
like this simple stuff, like he can throw an entry pass.
He can do some of those things. Like I think
they have enough. Oh did we forget about Jalen Pickett,
Like he's still around.
Speaker 1: What I mentioned him, I did some moments last year
and I do find him more intriguing than Tyson. I think,
so I would. I think I mean, I'm gonna be
fine with them standing pat if that's what they do.
If you told me that they're gonna use Stratha like that,
I They're gonna give Christian Brown some more opportunity on
the ball. I think I like that idea of the experimentation.
If that's not necessarily their plan. They do have Valentiunis too,
like you can run some stuff through him. This still
feels like this doesn't do anything for their tax situation,
but they could do it. This feels like a really
good Malcolm Brogden team to oh like just so something
like that. It doesn't even have to necessarily be the trade,
but I think I would like this. Maybe it's you
go through the season and then you look at the
buyout mark and when that happens. But I think that
I don't know. I find buyout additions tend to be overrated.
I'll even be guilty of romanticizing them, but so to
minimum signing. So I'm sitting here like Malcolm Brogden could
be the answer. You can't guarantee him a huge role.
I think I'm just lower on the Bruce Brown Show
than you because, like from what I saw of him
these past two seasons, and I know he was injured
a lot, right, I just man, I don't and he
doesn't need I think people are gonna focus on the shooting.
He's already shown he doesn't need to hit the three
ball to be an impactful player. But I'm not sure
that they're getting the Bruce Brown that they had in
twenty twenty three. And so I think it's fair for
them to sit here and say, look, that was a
minimum contract. We're gonna wait and see how that pans out.
And that's total. That's totally fair. The expectation shouldn't be
through the roof anyway. The value is never gonna be bad.
But that's why I kind of find myself. Unless you
think Pickett is ready or you want to see, I
didn't even think about Julian Strawther, to be honest with you,
that's a good call out, but unless you think he
or Christian Brown is capable of shouldering more. But I
can also see how you might feel as the nuggets well,
like valent Chiunis also allows you to paper over some
stuff by being able to run things through him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have a lot of options here. I'm not
terribly concerned about anything. I do have a question, one
question before we move on. Technically, if they weren't to
wave and stretch Hunter Tyson, would that achieve going under
the tax?
Speaker 1: So I mean yes, but I don't know if it would.
They would probably have to sign like a zero year
rookie with experience to like kind of I'm trying to like, oh,
I think you want to get because they have thirteen
guaranteed roster spots or no, they have fourteen.
Speaker 2: Excuse me, yeah, fourteen.
Speaker 1: So like if you did, so, what's two over three?
He's owed, So that's like, yeah, I would get you.
You'd only have like three fifty k left to fill
that out.
Speaker 2: So I think that you couldn't do that, could you?
Speaker 1: Do you think that there'd be a team that would
say that would just take Jalen Picket or Hunter Tyson
and then you can sign a rookie with zero experience
and that's like you save like a million point two
bucks that way one point that would actually get a
point two bucks one point two million.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, no, but like there should be some teams
that are like a couple of years into the rebuild,
like we've seen the Wizards just be like oh, you're
going to just give us Malchi Branham more or less. Yeah,
we'd be down for that.
Speaker 1: Like not Blake Wesley though, piplay leslie right true?
Speaker 2: Oh no, he went to Portland, but like, like the
Wizards are one of those teams who are like willing
to take gambles right now, So why not?
Speaker 1: Yeah? A couple questions here. Jason Timpf rat to Jamal
Murray's a top twenty five player in the league. Do
you agree?
Speaker 2: Wow? Okay, Like I don't think I have like a
top twenty five like just instilled in my brain right
off the bat here, like the optimal optimized version of
him is like easily twenty top twenty, like easily Wait.
Speaker 1: Do you think that Jamal Murray's easily top twenty? No?
Speaker 2: No, when he's like optimized, like the optimized version right
like when we when we are still.
Speaker 1: Ranking, let's rank NBA players based off they're optimized for
where they would like if Ben Simmons had a three
point shot during his.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, not that's not that No no, not not
theoretical upside? Yeah right? Like okay, so for example, like
before the was that was the a clchair right? Uh?
For for Jamal that was I think that was the
ACL like before the ACL the year before, like twenty
twenty one, Like yeah, like where he was headed before
he had the aclchair, I'd feel pretty comfortable we took
that version of him and put him into the Day's league.
We're looking at the top twenty guy, like he was
so influential it was crazy.
Speaker 1: Canybe I don't know. I don't know. This season would
have been rough too. I'm not staring at the list,
so like this just feels disingenuous. My gut reaction says
no on balance.
Speaker 2: And no, yeah no, yeah, probably not in the playoffs, Like.
Speaker 1: If you just ranked everything he's ever done in the playoffs,
he might just be by that. We have a couple
other nuggets questions. This is this is why I love
the live streams. Could they just trade Jamal Murray to
the Bulls? That is from hind, I mean they could,
But for who do you want from the Bulls?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Right, that's Patrick Williams? Are you right?
Speaker 2: For?
Speaker 1: They want the Patrick Williams flyer.
Speaker 2: We always we always do Bulls trades for some reason.
So that's twenty or sorry, forty six million out going?
What are we looking at what are we giving?
Speaker 1: What are you signing and trading for? Josh Giddy?
Speaker 2: That better not be with no God, No, we want
Denver to be fun.
Speaker 1: I just I don't know the Chicago I mean they
have You don't want Isaaca coorro i Owe for sure,
But that's seven million bucks, Like what is the other
thirty that's like coming out of there? You want one
of their youngsters? Would the Bulls be a team that'd
be like, hey, here's modest buzzellis in the Jamal Murray trade.
Speaker 2: They're dumb enough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But I don't even think like Jamal Murray
is so important to Denver, Like that's just yeah. I
mean I guess I.
Speaker 2: Think the people who like are looking at him and
basically saying, look, you're a negative acid. That's that's just
a breach too far for me. Like we can talk
about him being overpaid, sure, I'll talk about that all
day long, but like people are are reaching this point
where like how could they dump him? And I'm just like, really, that's.
Speaker 1: Where we are with Jamal? Would you the one I
had brought up and I think some Nuggets fans hated it,
some found it interesting. Would you trade, there'd have to
be other moving parts. But if you're the Nuggets, would
you trade Jamal Murray for Lebron James? Like do you
appreciate the flexibility that comes with James's expiring contract and.
Speaker 2: While he's still like Lebron and he'll still you know,
lebron Ish lebron Ish Lebron adjacent. Yeah, I mean, look,
I don't see why not because you'd have, like you said,
the future financial flexibility. Like I don't understand why the
Lakers would do that, like Lebron or Jamal? Who could Jamal.
Speaker 1: Murray be pretty wicked on it? I mean the thing
about Jamal Murray, for all the criticisms, and there there
are many, he's shown that he can play off of
all these different like off of yokids.
Speaker 2: Sure, but like yeah, like he's not a point guard
to me, he's like he remember how he came into
the league like as a full and blown two guard
and he was kind of pigeonholed into the one.
Speaker 1: I mean, as I remember is that he could have
been drafted by the Knicks, they would have traded him promptly.
But that Mellod trade was true. Trade CMB is garbage.
I feel attacked because I like comary boys. Dan, can
you admit that the Nuggets are overrated? Porters better than Cam?
Bruce is washed, Jonus is bad at defense, Tim is
bad at defense. And I don't trust Murray anymore or
Brown to make shots.
Speaker 2: So I think, stop, stop, stop. You don't trust Christian
Brown to make shots? Did you see his field goal
percentage last year?
Speaker 1: Especially with Jokic off the court, He shot like sixty
percent on twos, Like I love, think your hands are
still up right?
Speaker 2: That would bother me, like like he was one of
the most efficient, like perimeter players in the league last year.
What are we talking about here?
Speaker 1: Like that? I don't think the Nuggets are being overrated.
I do think, and I've actually gotten a little too.
I think I've gotten too defensive and part of this
about the Nuggets off season, I think it's being overblown.
And I've gotten some arguments with fans, which mostly my fault.
Need to keep my emotions and check sometimes better.
Speaker 2: I have to like to interact with fans outside of
the I like interacting with people.
Speaker 1: But I've been a little over the top of the Nuggets,
I think because this isn't fans' fault. I don't like
the way it's being spun with the a flexibility, like
you could have signed Bruce Brown and Tim Hardaway Junior
without making they were minimum contracts. I've seen your frame
too much that like, oh this opened up No, like
those players could have came for that price. Anyway, I'm
not a fan of like now they can sign guys
on the buy out market making more than the mid level.
You don't get to say that until they do it.
And you also could have done that, like you can
do that in the off season regardless of what apron
you're in, Like that was one of the loopholes. So
I think I just haven't appreciated the framing of it.
I think the Nuggets off season was more than defensible,
bordering on I think they're a better deeper team. I
still need to see, Like I've dug more into the
Cam Johnson fit versus Cam Johnson versus Michael Porter Junior.
I would still maintain that the apex of Michael Porter
Junior is going to be better or more valuable than
Cam Johnson, but we don't know, Like Michael Porter Junior
was very rarely, if ever, at that apex.
Speaker 2: About to say that's that's there. Now you're talking about
optimized versions.
Speaker 1: Well, look that's my I think that's my whole thing
is just like I might be wrong about I don't
think they had a bet. I just I think what
it all comes down to is I believe if I
was trading my unprotected draft picks seven years into the future,
I would have wanted more of an immediate bump than
going from Michael Porter Junior to Jonas Valentiunis and Cam Johnson.
That's just where I land on it. People are free
to disagree, but I like, I'm I'm seeing some maybe
the Nuggets don't have defense in the chat. I'm not
gonna throw all them up here. There's a lot of comments.
I actually came We've talked about this. I came away
from the playoffs last year like kind of more sold
on what Denver can do defensively than offensively. And so
I think Yonis Valentiunis fits that. I think the Cam
Johnson self creation stuff, I think that's a little bit overblown.
I don't think that that one. I don't think they're
gonna rely on him for that, and I don't think
that that's ever been his like Forte. It's I think
it'll help that maybe he'll have like you see some
of the defensive matchups he's gonna be going up against,
Like maybe that's when I'm not like properly valuing enough.
I think we just have I think it's more of
a discussion where people have seen, like I've seen a
plus offseason, it was perfect. I just think there's more
of a discussion to be had, that's all I'm saying.
If this is and I'm also not a fan of
just asking, I'm not even Yeah, I guess I'm expressing doubts.
But if you believe that they wouldn't have kept Christian
Brown had they had Michael Porter Junior on the books,
then yeah, look that's fair. I would call that maybe
cheaping out a little bit. Also, we don't know what
he's gonna get paid, like maybe he'll get extended again,
Rookie extensions aren't a part of this discussion. I think
their offseason was we haven't done our grade yet. I'm
sure all great, great, it semi favorably, but I think
there's been a disconnect to what my actual view on
the Nuggets off season is because I find myself pumping
the Brakes on like, I mean, look, even Rome eighty
one to eighty in the chat where it's like yeah,
Bruce brandn healthy and back with Jokic, he's yeah, there's
just a lot of questions here, is all I have,
So fair anything else on the nuggets from you?
Speaker 2: More?
Speaker 1: No, we're doing we said five minutes per team. We're
off too.
Speaker 2: That's why I said, no, Dan, Well there's nothing.
Speaker 1: There's not much new to add here. We get to
the Warriors, so more. What happens with Jonathan Kaminga is
restricted free agency.
Speaker 2: So I've actually written about this over at Forbes, I think,
so stay with me on this. I understand that the
Warriors are like, oh, we don't want to pay you
forty million a year because we might get stuck with
that contract. And with the cab being projected to seven
percent increase next year instead of the expected ten, what
are we going to do about it? My take has
been shot up. Just shut ob What the hell? Like
this guy?
Speaker 1: Wait? Who do you want to shut up?
Speaker 2: The Warriors? Look, he's what twenty two? He's hyper breathyle,
I think you know he's extremely productive. I understand the
fit isn't great. I understand there are questions about him
as well, because it's a two way street. Like, this
isn't just on him, This isn't just on Steve Kirk.
Both of those guys have made errors over the course
of their four years together. But like, if the Warriors
do want to give Steph, you know, the last few
years of being competitive, then you know, toying with this
situation too much, playing with your food too much, that's
a bad tactic. Because here's the thing. Kamenka has the
qualifying offer of seven point nine million. If he takes that,
he's gone in twenty twenty six and you just re
signed or sorry, extended Jimmy Butler, you're still paying Stephan
Curry through the nose. Draymond Green is also earning a
pretty penny, Like there are a lot of dollars on
those books. So you can't go out in free agency
in twenty twenty six and go, oh, who'll just find
a replacement for Jonathan Kamenka on the minimum market? No,
that doesn't exist. That is a very very bad strategy.
So I'd take is pony the f up and then
trade him if that's what you need, because then you
could at least get something back are you really that
afraid that a guy next year, at the age of oh,
at very advanced twenty three will have no trade value?
Like who are you kidding? I'm not saying pay the man,
you know, forty million, but apparently they've offered him two
years forty which is like, so like split the difference,
give him like four years one hundred.
Speaker 1: That's splitting the difference.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, But like the annual, like the
annual you know what I mean, like twenty to thirty,
Like that's what I'm talking about. Like, no, I hear you,
but you know what I mean though, like on the
annual salary, like twenty five million a year, Like if
you're scared to do that, if you're the Warriors, you're
just not thinking long term. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I think I agree to some extent, but I also
disagree to where it's like, what is he I don't
like if he's not here's the problem. You already said
he's not a great fit. Is that ros?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Right, what He's not going to be a better fit
overnight next year, So there's a chances trade value on
his next deal declines, and so you are taking a
big risk. You know, you could if you wanted to say,
like if it was three for seventy and then let's
say there's a team option on the third year, maybe
that's a way to get this done, and then I
would be totally in favor of that. But I don't
look at like Jonathan Kaminga has the upside of a
fringe all star. I will recognize that when you look
at his offense right, there's.
Speaker 2: Just too teams will talk themselves into that. That's my point.
Speaker 1: You don't find it to be like a little red
flaggy though that if they it wasn't just like what
were the offers for him around the trade deadline, or
that he wasn't critical to like getting the Jimmy Butler
deal over the hump, then that's like I'm skeptical as
to what team and like you could say, other teams
will talk themselves into it. What are these other teams?
Like they're like the Nets who had all this cap
space and have room for upside, Like they haven't seemed
like they're interested in Kaminga. The Jazz have that huge
trade exception. We haven't heard them as like a destination
getting involved with Kaminga.
Speaker 2: Did you think he's the Nets drafted in the first round.
Do we trust their chalent evaluate evaluation right now?
Speaker 1: I mean, what is that? Look?
Speaker 2: I was speaking a little bit of a smartness with
that one, but Jesus, I hated their draft. I hated
that all that. So I'm not putting that much stock
into the Nets going don't really want well, I guess.
Speaker 1: My other point though, was just like, so we know
the Kings might be interested in Jonathan Kaminga, and that
doesn't prove anything. It's the Kings, right, So I'm I'm
just I think I understand both sides of the argument
where Jonathan Aminga fancies himself a future All Star, and
I think that confidence is important. I think he's shown
that upside, but there's too many holes in his get
like as a shooter, as a passer, as a rebounder,
as a defender. And so I understand what the Warriors
are doing here now. I don't really like seeing players
get squeezed. That's also just how restricted free agency is
litigated like that. That's why it's set up the way
it is. If maybe one of these like CBA negotiations,
that'll be talked about more, Wow, Curry clears Kobe I'm
a Warriors fan. I want to trade him to the
Bulls for Io John Smith in the second round picks.
I mean, that's like I don't hate I don't hate
that either. But if you're shaking your head to that,
you can't tell me then that Jonathan Kaminga is like
a twenty five million dollar a year player. If that's
the return that you're willing to accept, well.
Speaker 2: No, Look what I'm saying is there are playing teams
out there who suddenly have to change or pivot in
the way. Like remember the way that teams are structured
right now, Like some teams rebuilding and some are retooling,
and some are trying to be competitive. Those teams are
not locked into being in that same state twelve months
from now, or even eleven months from now, or even
ten months from now, or even at the trade deadline.
So at some point teams are gonna pivot. Some teams
are gonna be like, well, we need something, like we
always know in the middle of the season there's one team,
two teams, three teams that are like, we could really
use something. We could really use a young scoring punch alone. Behold,
here's Jonathan Kamena. Now trade eligible and right there for
the taking. I understand the skepticism of why wasn't why
weren't there a more office for him? You know, last
trade deadline. I'll tell you why, because this restricted free
agency was looming and teams just did not want to
get into that. But remember how teams are always more
inclined to trade for guys when they know what the
salary is. They are less inclined to go out and
trade for guys when they don't know what the salary is. Well,
as soon as they know what Kamenka is gonna earn,
they're gonna sit there and say, oh, he's either super cheap,
oh we have impact as being more expensive than what
he really is. So like, let's go get him. I
think if they signed him to twenty five million a year,
or if it's even better, it's like twenty three to
twenty four, and even better if it's on a flat rate. Dan,
this is something you and I have talked about before,
like the flat rate that moving forward. That's that's probably
a big argument for a lot of teams. I would
be shocked if you didn't have like five or sixty
standing line going, yeah, we want to be in the
Jonathan Kuminga's business interesting.
Speaker 1: I think, honestly, I think that they should get done
with like a three year deal and then the latter
is some time. I would honestly say, I think the
Warriors have a leverage to get a team option. I'd
want to give him more money to keep. Like maybe
it's three for seventy five even, but the second, the
third year is a team option just because the Warriors,
to me, are taking on more of the risk here,
just because there's no Yeah, there might always be teams
that are talking themselves into Kaminga, but they might be
talking themselves into Kaminga at a cut rate because he
hasn't performed up to snuff in Golden State. And I
know everyone can plaint, but I'm just saying, like people
like to point to look at his average when he
plays more than thirty minutes per game, and it's like
he would have more of those thirty minute games if
he was more consistent on the stuff they need him
to do, right, Like, they don't necessarily need another on
ball scorer right now. Maybe they the rim pressure, sure,
but like when it comes at the expense of like
playmaking and maybe shooting, and you've taken a different direction.
I think I understand, I understand the ball sides of this.
I ultimately think it's gonna get done with like three
years and then probably a team option. I don't even
know that. I would guess, like, do you think the
average annual value is going to be twenty three or higher?
That's the number you just threw out that.
Speaker 2: I mean, what I think is it's going to be
lower than that. What I think would be fine is
if it's tired that. But but yeah, like I just
want to wrap that up because when you're trading for
Jimmy Butler and and you know, when you also have
Draymond Green, Oh, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: Shout in the comments, well can I I'd like to interject, MJ,
is also your initials? Is that you in the.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, My initials will always be MSJ. By
the way, always can look MJ. That was just too vague.
So even as a kid, I was like, no, no.
Speaker 1: I got to be I just thought it was some
stealth like I would know.
Speaker 2: But I appreciate it if someone went in there and
just like created that account to make me look like
a narcissist. Good on you for doing that that you
went the extra mile to make me look like a
damn fool. I appreciate that. No, but like Draymond Jimmy,
we know those guys aren't floor spacers, right, So like
you're not exactly helping I just kid like you're not
exactly helping the young man, Like you're not exactly doing
everything in your power, Like give that guy, you know
a good pathways start of and you know what, that's.
Speaker 1: It unless you were planning. And I mean they did
play him at the floor, but like when you look
at you're playing DRE with Kevon Looney until Quinton Post
came in there, it's not like you had a floor
spacing quote unquote five to say, oh we can try
and develop Jaminga as a three. So that that's fair.
I don't think that they've necessarily done right by him,
But uh, really quick on the Warriors, do you guys
know when we'll get the news on Horford and Melton?
Then where would you rank us if we if we
do get them, you'll get the news on Melton and
Horford immediately after the Johnathan Kamena business is done. That's
what's that's what's holding it up.
Speaker 2: And I would think I probably know the contracts on those.
Speaker 1: We don't, right, it'll be the minimum for Melton, is
my guess. Then Horford's gonna get the mini mL Okay.
I would say that the Warriors with Horford, Melton, Steph Butler,
kaminga Draymond Quinton Post is in there. Uh they Buddy
heel put jem Ski. That's like probably a top because
who are the guaranteed top six teams in the West.
I think you have Denver Houston? Okay, see who else
do you want to throw in there? Is it the Clippers?
Speaker 2: You're well, yes, also, but you're gonna hate me for
this because I'm going out on a limb on this one.
I think I even set this on this show some
time ago and you were like, first, yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Think they have an argument. I couldn't call them a lock.
Speaker 2: I yeah, that's fair, that's fair. I can't call them
a lock either. My point is just I think they're
up there. I think we're ignoring them.
Speaker 1: Do you think so? What do you think that?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: The locks are? Like? Do you think it's those four
that do the Timberwolves belong in there? You're not a lock?
I have is or?
Speaker 2: Okay? See Denver, Houston right now? Health, yes, Houston too, Yeah,
those that would be the locks, right. I don't think
we can well, I mean again, here's the thing. If
they're healthy, and if we're just assuming health, then I'm
also gonna put the Clippers in there. But like you
guys just think, don't think you can assume health on
any scene that has kawy leiners.
Speaker 1: I know you can kind of say the same thing
the Warriors with their age getting up there, but I
think they're for. I would probably have the Warriors in
my top six. I don't know they would be among
my like four locks, but I would probably have them
in my top six.
Speaker 2: That's fair. Wow? No, No New Orleans Pelicans Huh.
Speaker 1: Well, they might think they're gonna be in the top
six based off some of the stuff they've done. Speaking
of the Houston Rockets more, Kevin Durant, is he gonna
get nick if when he gets an extension? How much
will be for? And can I at least can I
give you my like? I don't know if I'm overthinking this,
but my thoughts on this are as of right now.
Maybe there's other stuff that needs to get done. I
would almost be alarmed if I'm a Rockets fan and
he doesn't get an extension, because it means that he
might be wait because if he waits six months, it's
like a difference of like two or four million dollars
whatever it is. With the numbers, I think I have
him at like two for one nineteen now versus two
for one twenty two. If he waits, they should not
be giving him the full boat, Like, I just don't
think that that's the situation you want to get into
with the Rockets. And so if you wait, I just
automatically defall to oh, he's getting the two year max.
Would that be your read on the situation too?
Speaker 2: No, not necessarily, but but you know what, I'm going
to defer to you on that because I have not
thought about like the extension minutia specifically for Katie. I
think when you reach a certain level, and you reach
a certain age and what you're that type of guy,
something just happens, like you you get like the Jimmy thing, right, like, oh, yeah,
I'm getting the two year deal whatever, whether for him
it's the full boat or if it's slightly below or whatever.
Like I don't think he cares all that much when
we're talking about him about to go, like how much
had he earned or the course of his career coming on.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a Kevin Durant like it's not that I
think that he cares, but I'm saying he might even
be worth it or close to it. But it does
make it a little bit more of a challenge. Challenge
excuse me to juggle, like the rest of your contracts
that are gonna come do during this span. And I
kind of always operate under the assumption that if he
went to Houston and they traded for him, it was
gonna be something like two years and one hundred million.
And I know we're only talking about the difference of
ten million bucks a year, but like, again, what did
we just talk about with the Nuggets before? Those thinner
margins matter? And so I won't hate it, but I
kind of thought, and he still can, by the way,
I did kind of think that once he was traded there,
that his extension was gonna come in at less than
the max. And if we end up not getting one,
like before the season, I think that kind of proves like, oh,
it's not gonna come in it less than the max
is basically what I'm.
Speaker 2: Saying, we'll see. I mean, look, if he gets the
max and yeah, I get that, there are a lot
of contracts on the books moving forward. I'm still I'm
still not a fan of the Jabari Smith Junior Extension.
First and foremost, I thought that was what too. Yeah,
I'm not.
Speaker 1: It's like twelve salary cap or something like that.
Speaker 2: For fourteen off the off the bat, but then you
know it dips for a year, which I actually that's
the one part I do like. I'm not. I'm just
not sold on him yet. I actually would have waited that.
But that's that's me. That's me. That's a.
Speaker 1: That's a he's going to take playing time away from
Clint Capella.
Speaker 2: Is that what this?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No, I just I just I'm fearful that he's just
not good enough. That's where we are. I'm not so
I'm not at Jabari Smith Junior optimist. Yet I'm going
to give him all the runway to make me look
like a damn fool this season. And I'd love to
be wrong, you know me. I always want guys to
be good. But but my point is, you can pivot
off guys if you need to, Like if DuRane is like,
oh yeah, look I want top dollar. I want two years,
no option whatever. By the way, there's a h pretty
if for eight rules that comes into play here, right Well, I.
Speaker 1: Mean that's why that's the two years.
Speaker 2: That's why that's the two years. Okay, Like you can
pivot away from certain guys like are we gonna sit
here and say you can't pivot off Dorian Phinney Smith
that if like it becomes the thing. I don't know,
but are we really at that point where we're concerned
about the money in Houston? Didn't it feel like by
just trading for Durant, you're like, Okay, screw it, we're
all in so.
Speaker 1: Uh here, just here's my thing. It's and it's again,
if you don't put Kevin Durant on the books next year, right,
they're like fifty seven million dollars under the second apron
as of right now, right that is basically that's with
if I'm Tory East and his cap hold will be
seventeen million dollars. You add in Kevin Durant's max that year,
which I think right now would be fifty seven point nine,
you're always on into the second apron and so yeah,
you can trim salary from there, but that's just a
very like fast track to be onto where you're that
deep into the tax. So suddenly, yeah, no, no, no,
who are you gonna give up? And they'll have moves
to make. I'm not saying they have to trade a
men Thompson or anything ridiculous where I'll print.
Speaker 2: You'll reach Shepherd instead. Right, that's whoa, whoa, what You've
gone too far?
Speaker 1: You have gone too far, sir. But so this is
I'm not even saying it would be the wrong move.
I'm just I find it a little bit. I thought
an extension would be done by now, is all. So
I'm gonna ask you this before we move on from
the rockets, since I don't think there's really new stuff
to add here, I'm gonna set the over under a
fifty million dollars per year.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so like he takes a little less, yep,
are you.
Speaker 1: Taking the over the under on that? I'll say fifty
and a half million. If you think it's gonna have
a button, you get to go under. You know what.
Speaker 2: KD doesn't seem to be like that preoccupied about like
the raw number two. He's not Lebron where he's like, yeah,
I want the full max. It's a status thing. I'm
actually gonna say under because I think he's like, yeah, whatever,
get it done.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say over because I'm shocked that you said under,
and I'm like almost rooting for you to be right,
because the Rockets are gonna set up to be fucking scary.
If you have KD making like ten to twelve million
dollars less than.
Speaker 2: His max salary, I just wouldn't be shocked. Like Kyd
seems like a pretty like you know how he I
understand he wants his money, but like, I also think
he fully recognizes that, you know, this is about basketball,
and he like he he's one of those guys who
can really say like he just want to hoop right
like that. That's that's his monster, that's the way he thinks.
And he's forty six going on forty seven. I just
like if someone comes to him and says, hey, look,
you want to earn fifty million dollars, well, he also
had that.
Speaker 1: I wonder if they experience with the Suns was kind
of an eye opener to where they never really ran
into the financial issues with the Nets. It was just
they weren't healthy. But in Phoenix they gave up basically
everything to get him and then shit just went so
sideways that that was because it never happened like that
in Golden State either, So I wonder if that.
Speaker 2: Was slender, just just also because I also wanted to
be I also want to see players now who are
in that salary bracket just go, you know what, like,
that's a lot of money, We'll be fine, Like the
raw dollar amount is okay with me.
Speaker 1: My favorite conspiracy theory is that he will take exactly
twelve and a half million less over those two years
than the max, because that essentially makes up all of
Steven Adams's salary, and so that him coming was like
Steven Adams returning was a condition of Kevin Durant coming
and signing for this. So you got Kevin Durant and
Steven Adams for what Kevin Durant could have just cost you.
Speaker 2: Well, that's kind of romantic. I like that. That's cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a romantic at heart. You know this the
Clippers more, this isn't really a move and they don't
have to give us answers right now. Per se who
starts Slasher even you want to say closes the most
for this team, well.
Speaker 2: In July, but no, Well so Justin Russo. I had
Justin Russo on my pod and he's good beeps.
Speaker 1: That is no one does a better job covering the Clippers.
Speaker 2: Right speed writer. He knows and he said, look, Bell
is going to start, so it's gonna be in his view,
it's going to be James, It's gonna be Beal Kawhi,
John Collins and superbuch So that's probably gonna be the
starting line up.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's I tend to agree, But do
you think that they're veering so far away from what
made them kind of special last year at that point?
Or do like, do you worry about the because now
you're integrating, We're assuming Chris Paul gets minutes. Are you
gonna still try and fit Bogdanovic in there? It does
feel like, no matter what you do, one of Derek
Jones Junior or Chris Donne is going to fall by
the wayside and what becomes of the defense. This might
also just be a leap of faith in a Viatsa Zubach,
who was on a lot of all defense teams last year,
but I found myself wondering if they've maybe I don't
even say messed with too much, but it's just a
question I have as to where did they kind of
really veer away from what made them like, endeared them like,
made them good, but then also endeared themselves to everyone
last year? Is that hillacious defense?
Speaker 2: I mean, look, Beial, I think is actually not as
bad a defender as we think, because again it's about
when he was in Washington, he was averaging thirty, who
was carrying everything. Then he went to a very weird
situation in Phoenix where I don't think his play was
indicative of anything. Really. Now you have Kawhi, you have James,
you have John Collins. Those three guys can really get
the scoring going. You have Booked on book down a bench,
off the bench, you have Chris Paul who's going to
take care of the ball and set guys up. You
have a lot of scoring. You have a Brook Lopez
who's going to pop threes and score near the interior.
So like for Bial now one he can optimize his
own shot profile, which frankly is pretty scary because that
dude can shoot and that dude can score. But it
also allows him to play a higher brand of intense
defense first and foremost, Like, I don't think Chris Done
is going to be out of the rotation. I don't
think there Joe juniors are going to be out of
the rotation. If anything, I think those guys are going
to be huge players off the bench, and they're going
to mix a match. They're going to probably run what
eleven deep next year, which I really appreciate that they're
pivoting into the depth part. And I think for them
to be able to scale back and forth that way
is such a luxury. Like they'll have games where we're
gonna need an extra pinch of defense. Hey, you know what,
Like CP, you're not gonna play twenty eight minutes the night,
You're probably gonna be playing twenty and we're gonna give
the rest of it to Chris or like, you can
sort of scale in and out that way. I'm not nervous,
if anything. I like these upgrades a fair bit. I
think this makes them better. I think they now have
it more. I think they have a little bit more
sustainability in a way than before, where everything was always
grit and grind. Now they also just have some talent,
which allows them to occasionally coast a little bit in
the best sense of the word, where they can just
out talent people sometimes or to out talent teams sometimes,
which I don't think necessarily was something they could do
last year. So I'm all in on this team. I'm
not worried.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think worried is probably too strong.
Speaker 2: You were worried, Dan, I could sense it were you were.
Speaker 1: Miles Johnson says, the head done literally got benched. I
think they realized any more offense. I'm not you know,
I'm not disagreeing with that. It's just you went into Okay,
you brought Book Lopez in, but you went into John
Collins and Chris Paul and Bradley Beal. I'm just curious
how they distribute the minutes from there. And I think,
you know, you're kind of betting. I guess if you
think you're gonna be a top five offense versus your
top three defense last year, I just think there could
be more drop off than people are crediting there. But
if Kawhi's healthy, maybe Zubats has another year like he did,
and they have, like you said, their margin for error
is just higher now because even if they have injuries,
they stretch so far deep. So I still really like
them as a team. I'm just curious what they're And also,
by the way, anyone who says, like the Bradley these
were all good pickups, but like we just saw that
Bradley Beal did try to adapt and it didn't work
out in Phoenix. I guess we're all just kind of
assuming that it's gonna work. And also I don't have
a problem with that, but like it wasn't you know,
it's different, I guess. But it's also like if Kawhi
is healthy and James Harden is there and you are
playing Chris Paul, it's like Bradley Beal's gonna have to
adapt again. So there were struggles there when he tried
to do that. He still shot the ball really well.
I think that's probably the biggest misconception about his time
in Phoenix, as he shot what hed shoot last year,
like thirty nine percent on threes or whatever. I'm just
this team's really good. I think that they'll probably like
they should probably be a top four seed in the East.
But I'm just curious how all the pieces come together.
Speaker 2: I you know, you and I were usually aligned on
a lot of things. I am. I'm not aligned with
John the Bradley Beal thing here where you said, oh,
he has to like adapt again, Yeah, he has to adapt,
but under so much better circumstances, because he was sort
of backing up Devin Booker and Phoenix because like, I
don't know, I still don't know what the plan was
in Phoenix to get a shooting guard in there when
your best player was a freaking shooting guard. And like
both of those guys Bial and Booker aren't exactly like
fluid positional changers, like they're primarily two's, Like they're not
you know, oh natural natural one here he slides right
into that shooting guard role. So like, yes, you'll have
to adapt to the play of James Harden who's ball dominant. Yes,
he'll have to adapt to Kawhi Leonard, but he'll have
his own spot for once, like there aren't there isn't
going to be a lot of positional overlap like there
was in Phoenix, And I think that that's a big
mental hurdle as well, like, oh, this guy has my
spot and like I can't play around that to the
best of my ability, neither can he play around the
same spot, which means we're sort of pigeonholes being in
that same positional situation. Here, he's got that shooting guard unlock.
That's great. That means that gives him a level of security,
like emotional security about one spot. Then he can adapt accordingly.
Speaker 1: I do worry that they might be if that's the
starting lineup you're outlining, I do worry that they might
be putting too much on Kawhi defensively. I do think
it helps offensively, though they very clearly have tried to
streamline what Kawhi does offensively, where in Phoenix, you weren't
necessarily trying to make Devin Booker or Kevin Duran a
smaller part or a more streamline part of your offense.
Where it's like QUI, it's like maybe they don't want
him creating or dribbling as much. So uh Daniel Williams
says the Clippers should bring back on Mere Coffee and
get Delan o'banton. They have a roster spot, I believe.
But my other question for them, I didn't think it
was worth talking about, is there's seven They're like seven
million dollars into the tax. This feels like a team
that might be like, oh, does anyone want to take
on Derek Jones Junior. He might be a little too
important depending on how you feel about the defense. Yeah,
maybe Chris Dunn. He doesn't get you all the way there,
but Bo Dub Bogdanovich seems like the odd man out,
So it's like, can they get cheaper going from Bo
Doug Bogdanovich to I don't.
Speaker 2: Know what the players interesting?
Speaker 1: How do you have Chris Paul and Bradley Beal and
James Harden And you're saying Chris Dunn is gonna play
where like I'm.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna I'm not saying Chris Dunn is gonna
play a lot. I think done is like the eleventh guy.
I think the second er rotation is pretty I can't
sit here and say obviously, but like to me, it
would right now it would appear as though Chris Paul
booked on Bogdanovic, Nick Patom, Derek Jones Junior, and Broke
Lopez would be like the secondary rotation, right, that feels
like and that's, by the way, that's a sneaky good
defensive secondary rotation.
Speaker 1: By the way, who do you have Chris Paul Derek Jones.
Speaker 2: So yeah, let's start. Let's start big too small. So
Broke Lopez Derek Jones Junior already there you have two
pretty good defenders. Then you have Nick Patuma the three
also a very good cohesive like team defender. Then you
go booked on and then you have Chris Paul at
the one.
Speaker 1: That's interesting. I'll be curious, and I guess there's gonna
be guys that miss games. I'd be curious to see
when they're full strength, how everybody gets staggered or are
they gonna run my hockey style units. But that just
lends itself to then you like Chris Dunn would be
the like that would be someone to trade if you're
going to cut your tax bill.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing because you just said injuries, right,
So I think Don is basically the injury security blanket.
Like because here, like let's say brook Lopez, this is
two weeks right right then in that secondary rotation, you
just moved Derek Jones Junior up to center in those minutes,
like there are there is a lot of positional fluidity
with a lot of these guys, Like I'm just not worried.
Speaker 1: Again, I never used the word worried, just asking questions.
All right, fair, I think, but I actually do think
that you're probably underestimating how much they would want to
trade Bodun Madonovitch the question of whether they can because
he has those two years I think left on his contract,
so it's not just this year he's a Does he
have a player option or is that that's not a
team No?
Speaker 2: Actually that's it, that's the team option.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: Oh really sorry?
Speaker 1: All right, well then I think I could see him
getting traded for like a like a cheaper player who
helps them end up ducking attacks by the because I
don't have two because they were out of the tax
last year, right or am I wrong about that?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just I I actually like Boke.
Speaker 1: No, I like him. I just there's a chance that
if you have Beeal and Harden that he is a
little superfluous here at that point, because you.
Speaker 2: Don't want to play an old ass team like you
They're going you said it, they are going to be
the games.
Speaker 1: No, as Curry clears Kobe, Clippers should get more old guys.
They're too young, so thank.
Speaker 2: You very much. Yeah, yeah, get le Bron trade Yannickknan
Neitherhauser for for Lebroun, I actually.
Speaker 1: Like him, so the Lakers I didn't want to spend
like the Luca extension. He's either going to sign it
or he's not. I would predict he signs a three
year extension. So I'm not really That's not something I'm
too interested in. How do you see them using like
their final they have thirteen guaranteed contracts, Like, what do
they need to look for? What does this team still
need when they're filling out the rest of their roster.
Speaker 2: You brought up Malcolm Brockton at one point if he
was to sign a mint deal, wouldn't hate that, wouldn't
hate that at all. That's a big guard who can
play both sides of the ball. They can play the
one he can play.
Speaker 1: You have like Smart and Vincent and Luca and reused.
Speaker 2: Right, I hear you do. We trust that Marcus Smart
is going to be healthy all throughout the year.
Speaker 1: I do. It's funny when people sign with the Lakers,
just how instantly inflated their reputation becomes, where it's like, yeah,
Marcus Smart three or four years ago, awesome, but he
hasn't played much basketball or much good basketball. Over the
past two years.
Speaker 2: So and like I fully con see that Brockton miss
himself is no pillar of health. But like you know,
if you have another body to throw in there, I
wouldn't hate it. So like that's one guy.
Speaker 1: I don't think they need to get another big Sure,
what are you thinking? I mean, like Chris Chris Bouchet's
flown around out there.
Speaker 2: Oh man, you just got an erection? Okay, yeah, I
don't hate that.
Speaker 1: Or what about I've been kind of thinking that. I
don't We've just been seeing it feels like more buyouts
in the offseason. But Robert Williams the third, if he
end up getting bought out by port maybe there's even
a trade to be had there when you.
Speaker 2: Contracts of two Portland centers off the buyout market, Well
they could.
Speaker 1: Also I think Robert Williams the third is like under
thirteen million or whatever, so they could actually trade for him.
That would be that doesn't really fill their roster spots,
because I find myself looking at this team and thinking, Okay,
they have eight and that's clearly enough grade like they
do they need Maxi Cleveland to be healthy next year.
Like that's when I'm looking at their big rotation when
I find myself thinking.
Speaker 2: Wait, so they're hard capped at the first aime, only
have one point one million left to play with?
Speaker 1: Um oh, yeah, you might be right about that, so
that well they have to that's not even enough for
a zero year rookie. I don't unless i'm also their numbers.
Speaker 2: Actually, for whatever reason, I thought they were hard kept
at the second apron, I was wrong on that. So
that means they have significantly less salary flexibility than we
thought they had.
Speaker 1: Well, they need to figure out something there then, because
they're gonna need to get to fourteen roster spots at
some point they only have thirteen?
Speaker 2: Am I the only one to like? Look? I like
Jared Vanderbilt, but like, don't love him at eleven and
a half billion.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think anyone likes that contract except
for Jared Vanderbilt and his agent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, great, fair enough, But I.
Speaker 1: Think this I don't know. I think this team still
needs like more of a wing and then another big
And that's like you said, they're not too flexible. I
can't believe I didn't realize they were hard capped at
the first apron. My god, that's really bad by me.
Speaker 2: Oh, relax, it's fine.
Speaker 1: For some reason, I could have sworn they were on
the because what did they use so Smart? Oh? Because
they used okay, all right, yeah no, I should have
seen that coming. Well, that's gonna be rough stuff for them,
Like how are they creating this? They have just enough
to sign a player with no years of experience. I guess.
Speaker 2: That you well, or there's a trade coming like Gabe
Vincent Mexically we're both expiring, Like perhaps oh, they you
know they can't aggregate? They can, they can obviously they're
hard captain the first aabrince, so they can't aggregate. Yeah yeah, yeah,
all right, I mean.
Speaker 1: Good for them. They also but like the other thing
to it, this seems like they just had to get
rid of Jordan Goodwin to make it, Like couldn't you?
Is it blasphemous to say that Jordan Goodwin is a
more valuable defensive player maybe at least at the point
of attack right now, than Marcus Smart would be.
Speaker 2: So I that's rough, Like I get why you're asking
that question. I don't think we've seen enough out of
Marcus Smart these last couple of years to like be
able to answer that question in full, but like in
terms of availability, I think you have a point.
Speaker 1: An availability. But I'm saying, like, just do you So
you think it's egregious to say just in a vacuum.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I say, I'm literally saying, we don't
know right now because Smart, Like how much has Marcus
Smart played over the past two years?
Speaker 1: I don't like, Uh, he's he has not played a
whole bunch.
Speaker 2: Right, That's what I'm saying, So, like we have really
no idea of like what state has bodies in like
his game, Well.
Speaker 1: He's working out. I found that to be the most
hysterical update is that he's working out over the offseason
and taking it seriously, which my guess would be he
has done every single off season of his entire career
as long as injuries permitted as much.
Speaker 2: Right, So he's played fifty four games in total over
the past two seasons. Like, so, I understand your question,
I just don't have an answer for it because we
literally haven't seen him.
Speaker 1: So I think there's probably a trade coming with this team,
would be my guess. It doesn't have to be a
major one. Do you think Lucas signs his extension very
quickly before we move on or signs in extension, so
like here we go, here's the Jokic conspiracy theory.
Speaker 2: No, it's it's worse than that. Dan. I think I
think that he well he might sign it, but I
don't think he should. Can I prase it that way?
Speaker 1: Can I ask why he helped recruit eighting and smart?
It seems like, yeah, that's pretty great event. She's also God,
did you see he's got like triceps definition I saw.
Speaker 2: I read that Whole Men's Health article that was great found.
Speaker 1: I found it funny that they went out of their
way to mention almond milk, which makes me think that
like Luco was drinking like I don't know, like heavy
cream like during timeouts.
Speaker 2: Or something like. I just don't under it's funny you
mentioned that. I'm not gonna say the name. There was
a player in Danish basketball many years ago and he
was told to bulk up and he started to drink
like what do you call like whole milk and I
like a lot, like a gallon at day because that
he thought that was the idea of bulking up, and
he just turned fat, just I mean fat.
Speaker 1: That when you boke up you're invaribly gonna gain body
fat like this whole main game thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like he that that became like he started
looking a little bit like me, which isn't a great
thing like that was no. But okay, so my Luca thing,
like you shouldn't have said like, oh here at the
tail end of this one, because now I'm going to
open Pandora's box.
Speaker 1: I don't think aggregators Alert one is the time stamp
you may aggregate this go ahead.
Speaker 2: Okay, Look, Lebron is gonna be forty one this season.
There isn't like that secondary guy lined up like the
Austin Reeves contract situation is not you know, resolved either,
And is he really you know, good enough to be
a secondary star on a potential championship level team. No.
Is there a team out there who has like the
ideal Luka Dontic pairing who could open up max cap
space next summer by just making a few moves here
and there called the San Antonio's Burst. Yes, there are.
So I'm just saying I probably wouldn't if I'm Luca,
if that pathway to San Antonio is open for me,
if I'm Luka Doncic. Next summer. I'm absolutely giving that
a real hard look. There's not a better fit for
me in the NBA. If I'm Luka Doncic, then Victim
Wim Panama.
Speaker 1: I mean, so you're just saying that the Spurs are
not I mean, that's gonna step on the toes of
what we talk about with the Spurs. But so the
Spurs aren't keeping Darron Fox, they're out signing him to
doing exact.
Speaker 2: That would be the idea of it, Like, because it's
so the the Luca extension thing is eligible first, right,
Like that's what was that? I think it's August or second, Yeah,
and then Fox August third or something along those lines.
And basically what I'm saying here is this, And maybe
I'm just stealing away from the Spurs segment here, but
if Luca signs an extension, I think the Spurs are like,
oh okay, that ship of sale. Let's let's sign Daron
Fox to an extension. But if Luca doesn't sign it,
the Spurs would be idiots to go out and sign
Daron Fox to one. I think that is a match
that should be like they should be all in. The
Spurs should be all in on the Luca experience. They
should tamper the everlasting shit out of this to make
sure Luca knows that, Hey, guy, if you don't sign
that extension, we are here for you in the summer.
And we've got this Frenchman who's apparently six seven now.
Speaker 1: Six' seven.
Speaker 2: All the way. Around, yeah it's like he's.
Speaker 1: Drinking that might actually be a.
Speaker 2: Problem all, right all, Right i'll let that marinate The.
English come, on.
Speaker 1: We'll move on to The Memphis. Grizzlies so Mord as we,
talk he was eligible SINCE i Think july Sixth John
moran can sign a two year extension worth About it's,
like what is it one hundred and it's two years
and one hundred and twenty million. Almost that would take
him through his age thirty, season keep him on the
books through twenty nine. Thirty my question to you is
we understand why players don't sign these. EXTENSIONS i think
now they feel more likely to maybe because everyone's just
extension eligible basically every two, years so you just keep
locking up money force to trade. Later but if you're The,
grizzlies you've renegotiated and Extended Jaron Jackson. Junior you've Traded Desmond.
Bane are you Offering John morant this? Extent or the
better question would be should The grizzlies Offer Ja morant an?
Speaker 2: EXTENSION i don't think they, should but, again, LOOK i
also did not like The Jaron Jackson junior renegotiating. Extent
What i'm really this, is this is a larger, question
which is really what do you? Expect like where do
you expect to land on a team that's led By
John moran And Jaron Jackson? Junior? Like what is your
aspiration level? Here are you okay topping out as a
potential second round team year in and year out with
those two? Guys if you are, cool, like more power to.
YOU i think this is an uninspiring to. SOME i
don't understand why The grizzlies keep being so infatuated with those.
Guys you have a leaite guard who can't, shoot you
have a big man who can't, rebound and you're about
to pay them one hundred million dollars a year. Combined i'm,
sorry that's that is such a bad. Strategy I'm i'm
so out on the on The grizzlies if that is
their continued belief that these two will suddenly break years
long pad like career long patterns and suddenly fill it.
In NOW i realize the pushback to that is gonna, be,
well they win, games and that is. True they do
win games in the regular. Season they do win, games
and they do get to the. Playoffs off of those
two that is not. Inconsequential that is a major. Boon
but you kind of want them to be more than
just a regular season. Team you want them to have
playoff success and like sustain playoff success deep playoff. Success
are you gonna have that With John morand And Jaron
Jackson junior as your two leade. DOGS i consider me a.
Speaker 1: Skeptic that's what's tough when you factor in the availability
with jaw. Two. NOW i think what's interesting here, though is,
like think back to De Aaron fox before it all
went to shit with The. Kings they offer him that
two year extenion when he was eligible with, it and
it was just known, that, hey he's not gonna sign,
It he's gonna wait to sign a longer one turns
out that didn't. Happen think about what we've kind of
seen With jokic right now In. Denver he's gonna wait
to sign a longer. EXTENSION i actually think it's smart
that he didn't sign, it because theoretically he's the type
of player sign. It now your extension eligible again in two,
years you could sign another. One but if you don't
even offer, it do you know what that says to
me is that you're afraid he's going to accept. It
and that's what would make this super intriguing? Here does
that make any? Sense, like because you normally hear just
ohways offered it just wasn't the right time for. Him
but if you don't offer, it it suggests that you're
afraid he's gonna accept, it or that you're just not
sold on him as your franchise. Centerpiece so if we
don't get any whisper that they offered it and he
turned it, down or the two sides agreed just to
revisit it next, Summer i'm just putting a pin in.
That i'm clocking.
Speaker 2: It, yep, Yep. Saul could you argue, though or is.
Speaker 1: This two ass backwards to say if it takes him
through his age thirty, season maybe he doesn't sign, It but,
like is it the worst thing in the world? Too,
Okay like we have Ja. Morant it's kind of a
like a guard super. Athletic we haven't locked up through
his age thirty. Season now we know we don't have
to go any further out if we continue to. Wait
does that feel like maybe a sweet spot or is
it just a we've already seen like, availability that's.
Speaker 2: You, Here that's a really good. Point that is a
sweet spot because you kind of expect that's probably the
age where he starts to decline, physically where the lack
of let's just let's just say, it the lack of
a floor game is gonna turn him into like A
Russell Westbrook adjason, player which isn't a great great news
for The. Grizzlies so, NO i don't think that's that's
that would be in a grecious. PLAN i do think
it'd be greecious if they gave, him you, know the
full maxims on that, Extension like what did you say
he was eligible? Before was it two?
Speaker 1: WEEK i think it's a little less than.
Speaker 2: That hopefully a lot less than.
Speaker 1: THAT i, MEAN i think it's like in the one
eighteens or something like, that when you do the Actual,
honestly MAYBE i still Think Trey young is gonna be
like kind of the case. STUDY i thought it was
gonna Be Jennon Jackson, junior by the, way but he
renegotiated and extended, Right LIKE i just, think AND i
might be, wrong but one of my hunches is that
the bar for max, contracts especially like coming off that first,
one like the rookie scale, MAX i think it's just
gonna be higher in the way that the like in
this NEW. Cba AND i know that some people think
the the aprons have been, overstated BUT i really think
it's gonna become like a bugaboo to where someone like
A tray or like someone who's just not a consensus
top fifteen player consistently year in and year, out is
not always gonna have the. Max maybe it's top twenty
out of like however you want to game. It we've
kind of yet to see that example in. Play maybe
that'll happen. Again Is John morant a guy like that
or is It Trey? YOUNG i honestly don't, know BUT
i just have this suspicion that it's going to become
more like the Bar ford is gonna become. Higher and
If John morant doesn't even get offered one his you
can kind of right off and say he's missed a
lot of. Time The grizzlies also made this Weird Desmond
bay not, weird but they made The Desmond bay. Move
it seems like they're kind of reorienting a little. Bit
so that's WHY i Have Trey young's name still. Circled
it's just if he doesn't get an extension or if
he signs for less than the, max that's gonna be
a trend That i'll be monitoring moving. Forward, YEP i
think that's good on The. Grizzlies we can move on
to The Minnesota, timberwolves who are, UNINTERESTING i think in
kind of a good. Way like it just feels like
most of their business is. Done but do you think
they have thirteen guaranteed contracts on the book books? More
do you think they need to add another ball handler
or Is Rob dillingham officially? Ready or if they decide
to add another ball, handler what does that say About Rob?
Dillingham like where do you sort of land on all of?
Speaker 2: THAT i, mean you can add another ballhandl where it
doesn't have to be a guy who, potentially you, know
goes into the starting lineup or anything like you can
add another ballhandler who is, like what a third point
guard or something along those lines, like that'd be. FINE
i would definitely give the ball To dillingham and just,
say all, right run this, show let's see what you,
got and then we Have Mike conley to sort, of you,
know save his ass if.
Speaker 1: Necessary can my comedy still save asses in the year twenty?
Speaker 2: Five that's the bigger. Question did anyone pick Up Monte? Morris,
no he's still out there all, Right and wasn't he
with The wolves at one point, Too like doesn't?
Speaker 1: He? YEAH i think he. WAS i mean they could
be another Interesting Malcolm rogden.
Speaker 2: Team oh that that's a good. Shout, YEAH i don't
hate that because then he can also play the off
guard spot and uh be more of a, scorer WHICH
i think would be the worst thing in the. World,
YEAH i don't hate that.
Speaker 1: Because they have do they?
Speaker 2: Actually?
Speaker 1: MAYBE i was, like, noh, yeah thirteen players On, Yeah
SO I i just, wonder, like because if they don't
add another ball handler and they don't Be Rob dillingham
and someone's gonna come in and soak up like minutes per,
GAME i think it puts kind of a lot of
pressure On Tarren Shannon, Junior Dante, DiVincenzo and then of
Course Julius Ranald Affey. Edwards they feel like one guaranteed
someone can come in and make some decisions with the
ball short AND i Like Rob dillingham in, theory should
be that. PLAYER i came away From Summer league kind of,
THINKING i don't know if that's gonna happen this, season.
Speaker 2: Though Summer league is such a hard you, know Fair
like that's, yeah, right you know Where i'm going with.
This it's such it's like it's such a difficult place
to like project. ANYTHING i do hear you, Though like
he only played ten minutes per game last season when
he was like the eighth overall selection and they needed guard.
Play that was kind of. Worrying but it's not to
the point Where i'm like out on him by any
stretch of the. IMAGINATION i guess we'll. SEE i don't
hate the idea of getting another guard, in BUT i
don't think it'd be one of those guards who would,
like like threaten him to take away minutes on his,
Account like you need someone who's just basically acceptant of
whatever they're gonna, get right, Like AND i think.
Speaker 1: To be, Clear the only way THAT i so what
the actual red flag would BECAUSE i don't think anyone
they're gonna sign unless they Were Ben simmons team for some.
Reason even that wouldn't necessarily signal. Anything it would be
a trade where it's And i'm saying they don't Trade Rob.
Dillingham would they trade for another ballhander that you look
at like if this was The Io dissumu, team you
might clock that and, say, oh they might not have
faith In Rob dillingham next?
Speaker 2: Season? Yeah what? What what would?
Speaker 1: All? Right?
Speaker 2: Io?
Speaker 1: OH i was just throwing their trade assets are so
like you don't want to trade. That you have some
more flexibility on the trade, market just relative to they
are with the salary. Cap BUT i don't like who
do he Like Leonard miller and like they just their matching.
Salaries Mike conley if it's Not Rob dillingham Or devincenzo.
Speaker 2: Actually need like a mixture contract to. Move they don't
have a guy making in like the sixteen seventeen million dollar,
area WHICH i think could be an issue moving. Forward well,
NO i.
Speaker 1: Mean they have like nas reed moving, forward but that's
in the.
Speaker 2: Twenties, yeah and are they ready to move off of
him given the contract that they, signed because that's also
a weird, team, right because the extended will bear sometime
it go as.
Speaker 1: Well Like evencenzo's extension eligible. Too i'd wondered if they
might extend, him but he has two more years. LEFT
i think that's a decision you wait for next.
Speaker 2: Summer, YEAH i think so.
Speaker 1: TOO i but, like he seems way too important to move,
Either and so then you're, like could You is it
feasible to think that maybe you could upgrade From Mike
conley by Moving Mike, conley.
Speaker 2: Like in a one on one.
Speaker 1: Trade, NO i mean you probably to sweeten it a little.
Speaker 2: Bit, no he depends on the. Sweetener but, NO i
think that should be fairly. REASONABLE i, mean he's an
expiring contract after.
Speaker 1: ALL i Just i'm very curious to see what type
of Role dillingham plays this. Season that's off on The
wolves another kind of easy. Team they're not a lot
of business left to. Do speaking of teams that are
not easy, though, more The pistons have a ton of The. Pistons,
wow Sorry detroit. Fans The pelicans have a ton of,
Bigs AND i would say, no elite rim. Protectors statistically,
speaking their most elite rim protector last season when you
look at points saved seventy five possessions Was Kevon, looney
but he did not contest a ton of shots at the.
Rim like just relative to being in that, POSITION i
Think Eve's mecI would probably be your best bet is Saying,
okay that's your best rim protect because it's Not, zion
it's Not Derek.
Speaker 2: Queen so it's just definitely, Yeah so is that like? Fine,
yeah emphasis on, Fine like it's it's, unspectacular it's what it.
IS i love how you're like completely lacery dear on
all the rim protection Where i'm just, like, oh look
at all the holes everywhere else as, Well it's like,
okay if they figure out their, protection that's, cool then
they only have to like fill out seven hundred other.
Gaps well they have.
Speaker 1: Like they have some shooting and self creation on the
roster now maybe because say they don't have enough, shooting
but like you Have Trey, murphy There's Jeremiah, fears There's
Jordan poole shot at, Well Jeremia field's not really a,
shooter But Jordan poole shot it really well last. Year
you would have to assume they have enough ball, handling
especially if De Jonta murray's gonna come back at some.
Point So i'm JUST i Guess i'm just for a.
Team this is why it stood out for a team
that has so Many first of, all they're not even
like conventionally big most of them, anyway like when you
look At zion or Kevon, Looney like for a team
that has so many bigs to not really have like
a guy THAT i point, to, like, yeah that's like
a really elite rim. Protector which is WHY i Remember
Schmidt dua covers The pelicans for in the note does
A Fantastic job had suggested they go all in on
A Walker kessler, Trade and WHEN i was reading what
he and it all made, Sense i'm just, like that's
a really shitty spot to be in after you just
Drafted Derek queen and then signed Von.
Speaker 2: Looney, yep this is generally a small team for, by
and you just thought it seemed that how to phrase, this,
like you you have quality at a certain at a
certain level at more or less every, position but the
quality is so inconsistent it every every ounce of it
comes with like question marks like Look sion h And
Brian sapporik shout out to. Him he actually reminded me
on a podcast we recorded That scion has some issues
that like legal issues that are going to be a. Thing,
uh THIS nba season or off season has just been,
loaded SO i actually completely forgot about. That so there's
that which could also affect his play on the, court
which also can affect his future in the. League there's
The Jordan poole situation of it, all where you don't
really know what kind of version of him you're going to.
Get are you going to, get you, know the more
calmed down version of last, year or you're getting year
One Washington Jordan poole where he's just firing up. Shit
what's the injury situation With deyonce Like Herb, Jones is
he going to be Healthy jeremiah? Fears is he going
to have a year one? Breakout more or? Less like
is he going to be a rookie the year? CANDIDATE
i have him like in that discussion at the very,
least especially if the shot is going to come, along,
well we don't know that. Yet we'll See Derrek. Queen
according To ricky O'Donnell who like. That i'm just going
to use his. Words it's a no, three NO d, center, which,
yeah that sounds great in the year twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: Five you, KNOW i typically do not like those. Players
AND i came away from him in Summer league like
really appreciating what he. Does but you very much. NOTICED
i know a lot of people called out the. DEFENSE
i wasn't as locked in on. That the ground bound
ness is just overwhelming the evident.
Speaker 2: No SO i, mean, Look queen is good at what he.
Does LIKE i think the best THING i the best
COMP i came up with WHEN i did my scouting on,
him is he felt like A Boogey cousins in terms
of just scoring the, basketball like getting from POINT a
to POINT b and just putting the ball in the.
Basket that is not, insignificant like that's that's a substantial skill.
Set but if you can't defend the, basket if you
can't hit the three in this day and, age good.
Luck and also we still don't know what the Hell
Jordan hawkins. Is AND i, look this seems just like
we can talk about room, protection but we can talk
about like three point, shooting decision, making roster, stability legal, Issues.
Speaker 1: Well what this. Team it's so when you look, like
let's talk about like the like the, facilitation you look at,
this it's, Like, okay they have a bunch of different ball.
Handlers do you trust any of them to be like
the primary table setter for everybody? Else and it's probably
not Like zion and that's. It so it's just the
bigs just stood out to me, too because The Dejonte murray,
thing if he's, healthy maybe that like the complexion of
their team looks. Different there there's a ton of questions
with this, team but in terms of just like what
urgently needs the biggest, upgrade it seems like if they're
trying to be good next season and if you're going
to trade an unprotected first round, PICK i Know pelicansans
are gonna be tired of hearing, it but if that's
the deal you're gonna, make you're trying to be really
good next. Season if it's like that's the thing that
could improve this team the, most would be, like let's
put an elite rim protector on this, team because now you're,
insulating like where do you think it's easiest to cover
up for defensive. EFFICIENCIES i think if you have that strong,
backstop it's gonna be harder to do from the perimeter
working outside. In and also like you Have Jose, alvarado
you Have Herb, jones you Have Trey murphy running around the.
Perimeter SO i think that they need To i'm WITH
i hadn't given it enough shot. Thoughts so it's like
shout out To schmidt until he wrote about, IT i
think a few weeks. Ago but that's what it feels
like this team should. REALLY i Like Eves, mecI i
Like Derek, QUEEN i Like, zion but, like those guys
are not, Again mecI comes closest there, probably but they're
not GUYS i view as Just oh they can be
elite rim, protectors the back line of a of a
really good. DEFENSE i agree with that this is gonna
be a spicy. One more, so buckle in for the
next hour and a. Half will The Oklahoma City? Thunder
is it time to move on From Ushman jang and
maybe create another roster.
Speaker 2: Spot, yes.
Speaker 1: That hurts my soul as who someone who is all
in On Usman jang like three years. Ago but, YEAH
i MEAN i don't like they do. TRADITIONALLY i, mean
they end up moving these guys that are headed for
restricted free agency or might be extension. Ledgeable we saw
it With Josh, giddy there were some delays on like
like we saw it With Trey, Mann like there was
more delays on that In, poku who's out of THE nba,
Currently but like from The Sam presty, playbook it seems
Like Usman jang would go. Somewhere it's just will happen
over the offseason or is it gonna happen closer to
the trade.
Speaker 2: LINE i guess we'll find out waving. Stretch, No i'm.
Speaker 1: Kidding, like If i'm The, Nets i'm taking a flyer
On Husmann. Jang If i'm the The, JAZZ i guess
The jazz have a ton of like. Forwards well they,
could they Have, lowry they Have Taylor. Hendrix, yeah They're
Phila paski right there.
Speaker 2: Are POSITION i, mean, YEAH i guess you.
Speaker 1: Could he makes under five million. Bucks you're gonna tell
me he's not worth a flyer.
Speaker 2: Us Ben jang east in your earning six point, Six.
Speaker 1: Okay he makes under seven million bucks.
Speaker 2: Moret, okay fair enough in today's league is like four
percent of the salary. CAP i could get behind. That
it just has has anything stood out to you over
three years so?
Speaker 1: Far there is maybe not so much, anymore but there
have been moments there's like a real on ball feel.
There we just have like the shooting and then he
gets in like these deer and headlights stances on. Defense
totally get. It but LIKE i think if you put
him in an offense that maybe makes him he's still
kind of, skinny can he work out of the short?
ROLE i would just be interested to see put him
around a bunch of spacers and maybe see what he
could do if you're gonna put him the, Ball, like
is there A Jeremy?
Speaker 2: Sewen did you say put him around a bunch of?
Spacers as if he's like the number one Option.
Speaker 1: Josh giddy has like put the ball in his hands
like put like if you can put him on a. Team, clear,
guys come, on first of, all if you're trying to
command the, tank you're gonna tell me that's a bad.
Speaker 2: Idea oh that's, fair that's a fair. Point so like
you're saying you should straight For Ustman jang if you
are a sneaky, tank.
Speaker 1: T how do we get him To boston for this,
year BECAUSE i have no idea what the fuck they're
planning on.
Speaker 2: Doing boston needs a, center, Yeah boston needs the. Center
Usman jang is starting. Center go for, it all, right
That's Sam howe.
Speaker 1: To, okay see For Usman jang and. STUFF i would
Say boston money, TOO i don't actually does, okay see have? That? Okay,
SEE i just assume has infinite salary. Flexibility, uh they
are other barely under the tacks that might take them,
over so they're, yeah they would need to throw some model. Stuff, Okay,
yeah that's not gonna work for. Them, Sorry and you're
not obviously not gonna Trade Thomas. Sorber that's just not.
Allowed so they could. WORK i, mean but let's get
them to Send Sam howser somewhere. Else THEN i don't like,
god so but, YEAH i think it's just a matter
of when for, him because there's no pathway for him
to getting minutes on this.
Speaker 2: Team, no, No but BUT i also, LIKE i just feel,
like and it sounds ridiculous because this team is so freakin,
Deep i'm just at that point Where i'm, like also
looking at the salary. Slot i'm, going, oh you can do. Better, okay,
see but like that's some real sick oh shit. Too
i'm looking at literally the deepest team in the, league
And i'm going they could do better with that six
point six million. Dollars it would be.
Speaker 1: Like embarrassment of. Riches shit is if they Traded Usman
jang and stuff and then it just got. IOH i
think that would fit within their like keep them under the,
tax and then it's they have all these, okay like
these defenders who could small but can guard. Up that
would just be. Ridiculous But i'm wondering If.
Speaker 2: Mitchell who's, like oh, yeah finally a, contract PERHAPS i
can play a little.
Speaker 1: Bit, NO i mean at that point they're playing five
guards at. Once it's absolutely, happening right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah we move on to The Phoenix, suns, who, uh
we're very weird about the way that they announced like
their their. Point I'm i'm very sensitive the. Word i'm
kind of cognizant that we don't need to use traditional
like positional. Archetypes but The sons have gone out of
their way to make it say Like jail And green
will be starting at point, guard which is just no
matter what you're trying to, do whether it's make it
seem Like Devin booker gets to slide to his natural
role or that you're not going to put a certain
responsibility on. Him the look is just. Terrible AND i
don't think you gets to sit here and, say like
If Jordan goodwin Or Jared butler makes the, roster or
if you Have colin JUST gilseppi, like that's not the
answer this. TEAM i know that positions are very. Fluid
they need like a game manager like this would be
the Roster Tias jones would have made sense on rather
than last, year because the ball would have been in
his hands a little bit. MORE i, like are they
really not gonna sign a four general type? Player?
Speaker 2: More, uh, well give me a, Second i'll call. MANAGEMENT
i don't, know given that they're spending one hundred and
thirty four million on the five, guys the five top
earners on their, team and they're all, WINGS i would
say that they ping themselves into a. Corner. Dan that
would be MY i read on this. SITUATION i don't
know what the hell they're trying to. DO i don't
know what they're trying to achieve. Here i'm guessing that
there's a trade head line trade lined, up because this
makes just no. Sense their roster construction is completely.
Speaker 1: Warped so is this especially with all those young bigs
on the, roster, right like with Or Mark williams And
came And mallawatch, specifically it feels, like, LOOK i Think
Devin booker is probably an undervalued passer at this, point
but it feels like they need someone else to like
help organize those bigs or at least put them in
optimal situations coming out of. Screens.
Speaker 2: Correct, yes like you brought Up io for literally every
single team out. There is he the New Kobe?
Speaker 1: White?
Speaker 2: Right? Like he? Is probably the guys who bring up
for this team someone who can just run the show,
will albeit in a low, usage low volume. Roll, yes.
Speaker 1: So you don't expect. Them you think they'll roll into
the season like, This you. Don't they're apparently interested In Jonathan,
kamingo which does he make sense on this.
Speaker 2: Team not as a floor, leader, no well, no not.
Speaker 1: As i'm not as a point, guard but as a
even as JUST i guess you want another on ball
score even though you Have Jalen. GREEN i just find
that odd.
Speaker 2: Too, NO i don't like to fit. THERE i, mean,
look so you're also gonna hinder Like Ryan dunn's, development
who is like his minutes are actually going to be
significantly important to them because if his three ball takes
another like leap and if his defense remains like that's
that's a player right. THERE i just, don't LIKE i
want them to do. Something we're at that stage of
the summer where just kind of surveying the, field like
how many open trades are there at this, Point like
can they, like, ha, hi we want to point guard
For Grayson, Allen like twenty nine teams are just gonna
shut the phone off and it's just like, nope not
gonna take. IT i JUST i don't know what the trade.
IS i don't know what the deal. IS i don't
know what is out there for them that actually makes.
Sense are they Shopping Dylan? Brooks if, so who are they?
Targeting how does it make? Sense it's still not gonna
fix The Jalen Green Devin boker, thing LIKE i hate
this roster with a passion of a thousand. Suns, YEAH i.
Speaker 1: DON'T i don't know what the movie is, Either like
even you look At sacramento has like a surfeit of,
guards but none of THEM i think come close to
Like i'm a weak monk like that doesn't really do
it for me, Here utah is probably not willing to
sell that low On Kyante george would mean my guess
he might be semi.
Speaker 2: Interesting games guys should just mentioned are better as twos, Anyway.
Speaker 1: Kiante, GEORGE i think there's probably still some, room BUT
i do know your.
Speaker 2: Point no, sure but he was still he came into
the league as a. Two they tried to develop him
as a. One there they're still doing that and he's done.
ADMIRABLY i will give him, that but if we are
being real with, ourselves his best position probably still the.
Speaker 1: Two you know what's kind of sneaky good at throwing.
Lobs i'm just wondering if he was. Gettable Jose, alvarado
such as a non Start New. Orleans he's two years
and nine million dollars slept on his. Deal that's so fucking.
CHEAP i don't mean to. Cackle it's so.
Speaker 2: Ridiculous what like is? There it seem out there that
just have an over abundance of point guards.
Speaker 1: Of, LIKE i, Mean charlotte's weird right. Now they all
of a sudden went like guard. Crazy But Colin sexton
isn't really a point. Guard Josh green can do some
live dribble, stuff his grant would point out if he
was on the, Show BUT i can't get a board
Of Josh green.
Speaker 2: Train, no, no not at, All and like The clippers
are probably not gonna like give Them Chris done.
Speaker 1: Anyway that's also, like is that someone you want running the? Show, yeah,
no not, Really Bug. Done macdonovich doesn't, really that's not.
Real there was never his super strong, suit but that's
not really his game. Anymore they might be able to
talk themselves Into Cam thomas being like a point guard.
Speaker 2: Type that'd be, interesting to say the.
Speaker 1: Least, yeah they would be a team that would be, like,
hey If denver was looking at shed this out like
a jail and, picket they'd take a flyer on. Him
i'm not saying he's the, answer but at that point it's, like,
well then IF i have a problem With Colin deseppi
And Jalen green running, Things I'm i'm totally cool With
Jalen pickett running. It so, YEAH i, mean, yeah there's
no teams with like AND i don't even know if
Like Malcolm brock, did mostly is going to create out a.
Drive SO i can't even say they'd be a Great
Malcolm brock didn't.
Speaker 2: Team i'll tell you. Something this is something That i've
been not tracking in like a scientific. Sense it does
feel like the league at large is getting lower on point,
guards like actual point.
Speaker 1: Guards, well it seems like they want players with more
size who can pass shoot.
Speaker 2: Like but it feels like the traditional like court vision point,
guard like one position point guard is about to.
Speaker 1: Die there feel that way about one position players in
general a little.
Speaker 2: Bit potentially, so but the point guard was always like your,
quarterback like the heart of your. Team he always sort
of found a way to, survive Right and now that
position seems to be not. There like when is the
last time we've seen like a draft where you, go,
oh they have like three point guards in this draft
could be all, starts like when like even one or
two like at best, two and then it's like one
of them is sort of a a, Surprise like when
is the last time we've really seen a guy just
come in and you're, going, oh that's a franchise point
guard right. There it's been a, while.
Speaker 1: Like and does it can't scale up to a different, position, Right?
Speaker 2: Moran was see the last one scoot or did you? Think?
YEAH i felt LIKE i was missing. One scoot is
probably the one he got the, hype that's.
Speaker 1: True Does Dylan harper fit that bill Or? No he's
kind of viewed as like he could.
Speaker 2: Coumbo right because see because the size alone makes him
a little bit of an untraditional point guard if.
Speaker 1: Anything, Yeah, no that's, right that's a GOOD i hadn't
thought about. It i've always viewed as like the the
one position four is what everybody seems to be right? Out,
yeah does like What Gabe vincent does that do anything for?
Speaker 2: You, LIKE i don't Think Gabe vincent does anything For Gabe.
Speaker 1: Vincent, wow even when he's, healthy seems. Rude should they
be The Terry rozier team The Terry rozier renaissance begins In? Phoenix?
Speaker 2: Uh, WELL i mean just just make sure that when
he sucks. Out, No i'm not not gonna go.
Speaker 1: There. Uh, yeah they're in a tough. Spot BUT i
do think like they should probably make having a, bet
like getting a better passer on this team needs to
be a. Priority that's Where i'm got for.
Speaker 2: Sure, No, yeah this this roster has just a lot of.
Speaker 1: Issues our next team is The Portland, trailblazers And i'm
asking this. Question Maybe i'm overthinking, it especially Because dame's
not gonna play until next. Year but as of right,
now are we to believe that one or both Of
Jeremy grant is gonna come off the bench or is
it more likely that one or both Of shape And
sharp is gonna come off the? Bench and in which
case do you even want one or both Of Shadon
sharp And Scoot henderson like? It just FEEL i Know
scoot's done that for most of his, career but at
some point don't you want him to? Start So i'm
just wondering if they're, like whether It's grant Or holiday
or the Names i've, circled because let's go through this this,
way who would you view as locks For portland's starting
five or even closing five next? YEAR i would just
say a big whether That's klingon Or Jan, Hanson Tamani
kamara And Denny avdya are just my absolute.
Speaker 2: Locks, yep same. Uh i'm. LOOK i understand that The
blaziers had a fun second half of the, season and
they probably want to like accelerate the rebuild a little,
bit trying to get. Competitive that's, Great Scoot shaden should
start in the. Backcourt. ABSOLUTELY i don't give a flying
f About Drew holliday Or Jeremy grant's like perceived notions Of,
oh look good my resume and WHAT i can. Do, no,
like this team has to AND i emphasis on has
to get scooed and shade and going to a point
where they figure, out once in for, all what do
we have in these? Guys, like you can't you can't
jerk Around scoot. Anymore it's. Time it's year, three.
Speaker 1: Especially With dame in the shadows like of the following
season now would seem to BE i just and Maybe
i'm looking at this the wrong. Way if they're prepared
to do, this kudos to. THEM i just can't envision
seventy million dollars worth Of Drew holiday And Jeremy grant
just coming off the bench next.
Speaker 2: Year, NO i but you know what it's what it.
Is they made those, trades and, look if they're trying
to win right now and they're using those guys for,
THAT i think it's perfectly. Reasonable to ask the bigger,
questions like are you sacrificing the future of your own
organization just to have a good twenty five twenty six
that's ultimately not going to lead to anything substantial like this.
Season that's a bad.
Speaker 1: Ideology so IF i was to Say i'm gonna set
the over under of point five Of sharp And scoop
coming off the bench next, year you're taking me under on.
That you think they'll both.
Speaker 2: START i think it should it both.
Speaker 1: START i think one of them is gonna come off
the bench as of right. Now, anyway maybe maybe that.
Speaker 2: Changes i'm incloud to agree that that's what's gonna. Happen
i'm arguing that it shouldn't.
Speaker 1: HAPPEN i will say IF i don't think it will be,
sharp but just because he feels like if you're gonna
if you need a starting two guard With simon's, guy
it's just like it has to be sharp to. Me
but if you don't extend sharp and then he's also
coming off the, bench that opens like all sorts of weird.
Conversations AND i very much think that starting lineups can be,
overrated but they. Are they do also help inform what
these closing lineups will end up looking like SO i
just had my eye. Here i'm not saying it's anything,
Sinister AND i think The blazers Of telegraph that maybe
they're gonna go for it a little bit this, year
but they've really earmarked two, thousand twenty, six twenty twenty
seven as the season they'll go for it hashtag capsock
go for. It BUT i find myself thinking that things
would be so much easier for, them just develop mentally
if they moved off OF i, MEAN i guess you
just Got Drew, holliday so you're assuming he was always
going to serve a, purpose but like Maybe Jeremy, grant
but is he too? VALUABLE i know he couldn't hit
it two last, year but when you look at the
shooting on this, roster it's so. Bad they traded their
best floor spacer In Simon's dame isn't playing this. Year
holiday is a clear downgrade From simons as a. Shooter
and then didn't they just sign they're The Blake wesley, team,
Right so like their shooting has gotten. WORSE i don't
know what to do with. That like the offense feels
like even if LIKE i GUESS i find myself wondering
have they even optimized the environment For scoot And shaden
to develop properly on the offensive? End yet we saw
strides From scoot specifically last, Year BUT i would, argue
what Did sharp average like eighteen points a game or
something last? Year, YEAH i don't know THAT i necessarily
learned anything about his offense through those eighteen points per.
Speaker 2: Game, well we know that while he hasn't a shot
like a shot release that looks, tremendous the results are still,
very very. Fleeting and we can talk about that being
a direct result of a team that wasn't necessarily like
a high efficiency three point shooting team that didn't really
always optimize force. Bacing we can talk about a general
lack of quality all around the. ROSTER i don't. Know
WHAT i do know is we saw the last half
of last. Season we Saw denny on leish himself there
at the very, Least so, LIKE i think that's where
the offense is going to. START i think the ball
is going to be in his hands a lot. MORE
i Think scoot is probably gonna play off of that
more than be you, know the guy who takes care
of the ball eighty eighty five percent of the. Time
so it's probably gonna be one of those things where
over the first month or so they're gonna throw shit
at the, wall see what's, stick and then from month
two and, onwards we're gonna have a better idea of
what they're trying to.
Speaker 1: ACHIEVE i think that's. FAIR i still don't know what
their guiding offensive principles are just. YET i think they've
made it with the personnel even harder to find. It
and what you mentioned About, OVDIA i totally think he earned,
that like what he did last, season but like it
even makes me think more like, okay like they might
just View scoot as a reserve, again at least for
the first part of the year until maybe the trade.
Deadline are they shutting someone down or they end up
moving someone at that, point that'd be. Bad probably not
a huge it's PROBABLY i don't know if it's a huge,
problem but it's just when you had two years Of scoot.
PREDOMINANTLY i know he started some games being a reserve year,
three With Damian lillard preparing to be there in year.
Four just it's just a little. Awkward i'm not saying
they can't play, together but When scoot has yet to
be a regular, starter it's just, weird, right our next
team don't really even want to have, To, Like i'm
just so over this team. More i'm not gonna. Lie
they're definitely gonna trade a guard or, two right?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Right? Please?
Speaker 2: No, eh he's probably my answer on that. One they
should they, ALSO i brought this up With brian WHEN
i recorded the other, day our good Friend Brian spork,
like good, friend be for.
Speaker 1: Yourself who is? That all?
Speaker 2: Right that's, fair that's. Fair did we ever get an
update on The demonstra. Sepponus i'm gonna have a sit
down with The.
Speaker 1: Kings, well we know that he called for them to
sign a point. Guard they proceeded to, ADD i would
you Call Dennis shooter like point guard adjacent or do
you count him as a point guard?
Speaker 2: ADJACENT i mean, yeah.
Speaker 1: SO i would argue that they probably did not.
Speaker 2: With. Carter carter is also like a point guard At Jason.
Speaker 1: Player, well they're like dangling him and talks With Jonathan
kaminga apparently in the sign and and Look, Clifford i'm
being believe In Nee, Clifford but who is pictured? Here
BECAUSE i forgot to change the image from a stock
THING i. HAD i do not think That king should
Trade Nee. Clifford that is not WHAT i am saying right.
Speaker 2: RIGHT i don't know what to say about this Team,
dan other than all the fun vibes of two years
are are dead and buried and it's all, very very.
HORRIBLE i have no optimism left and misfranchised at. ALL
i don't know what the plan is short term or long.
Term their salard structure is all over the, place So,
bonus WHILE i love, him is actually also A. No
three To NO d, center which is so difficult to build.
Around they decided, that, hey The bulls apparently were great
With saclavion De Marty, rosen so why not go after
that one more. Time this is probably going to Be
yere four where they kind of forget that they Have
Keigan murray on the. Roster it's.
Speaker 1: As a, rule we didn't go into rookie extensions except
for one. Team at the. End he's also extension eligible
and his price, point that's a really tough deal for
him to negotiate when you look at how his role
is fluctuated on offense over the first few.
Speaker 2: Years, yeah SO i, mean is this a team that's
just do they have their first next? Year let me's just.
Speaker 1: Check, yeah they, do don't they because they conveyed it
this year to it went To? Atlanta all, right but
there's also something might have ended up somewhere.
Speaker 2: Else but it's top ten protected next. Year but that
means that, okay because my thing IS i wouldn't be
shocked if The kings are you, know a team that
walks away with one of the big three in the
draft next year that it smells like this ceased and
it's gonna get off the rails pretty.
Speaker 1: Quickly do you think they're going to have the wherewithal
to pivot into that type of?
Speaker 2: DIRECTION i don't think they necessarily need to piv.
Speaker 1: What so they do own their what what pick is
top ten protected that you're looking? AT i have them
getting their own twenty twenty. Six, FIRST i was.
Speaker 2: Looking at where it's let's see here if one to.
Ten if, not oh it's not already settled With, Atlanta,
okay so, track, yeah that's good for.
Speaker 1: Them they just DON'T i don't know if they're the
organization that would pivot into something because, also do you
know what's weird about this. Team they do have so
MUCH nba talent THAT i don't know that even if
they're organically, bad like they're not going to be as
bad as like The pelicans or The JAZZ. I guess
maybe those are the only. Teams is there any teams
you're prepared to say The kings are going to be
better than in The Western conference as of right.
Speaker 2: Now utah, Probably but like it's, you the combustibility of
this team is, huge just, Huge Like Dennis schroeder is
not necessarily not necessarily that wasn't even the WORD i
was looking. For is by no means a good vibes
type of guy at. All so like you throw him
into that locker room. Equation he's not really a point.
Guard neither Is Malique. Monk let's just be real about.
Speaker 1: That he's like his stuff is gonna happen out of
drive things like.
Speaker 2: That Exactly LIKE i Love lavine never, never you should
never cast him as a number one score which that
is absolutely the role that he'll have going into the.
Season so. Bonus still so difficult to build Around DeMar
just like take seventeen shots seconds off the shot clock
and then you, know take a consisted fade away from
sixteen feet that that's good. OFFENSE i, guess all, right,
Right LIKE i just think this is a is a
roster that like they could come out and win like
five of their first ten games and people will be, like,
oh look at The, kings and then by the end
Of january they could have like twelve wins, Total like that's,
right WHAT i?
Speaker 1: Guess what do you? Do you? Know what's so their
roster feels so? Incoherent what do you even view as
their single biggest?
Speaker 2: NEED i don't even have an answer to.
Speaker 1: THAT i don't want to sit here and say floor
general when they have so many guards AND i just
feel like you have Some bonus And monk And DeRozan
And levine and Like Neet clifford And, dinners like there's enough,
THERE i, Guess but it's is it another time Like
Kean ellis And Keegan murray And Neat clifford or those
your wing. Types it, DOES i, guess, right, YEAH i
mean backup center might be there saying they've decided, that
oh we don't need. That we had that for half
a season and, no we're.
Speaker 2: Good we agree that this team is probably gonna rank
the lowest in THE nba And blocksburg.
Speaker 1: Game, right who is their best shot? Locker might Be
Neat Clifford murray mostly, Yeah keing And murray does contest
a lot of shots at the. Rim that's a good
good call, out.
Speaker 2: Gacious so.
Speaker 1: Bad orlando doesn't really need anyone they have those like
they would be a good Maybe Jonathan isaac, team like
just someone to come in play fifteen minutes a. Game
he could play the five for. Them, yeah that'd be.
Interesting but Or orlando's looking to save. Money what's The king's. Situation,
no they're tone of fine too with The uh that's
why they had to make That yonnas Found chuni. Trade
this team is so. Uninspiring, know they have six point
seven million in tax. Space they they could do some
Like Silver. Landos they're gonna get out of the. Tax
maybe there's something. There they don't really have a but
the money is just, yeah you're not giving up and,
no you're not gonna give up any of those. Guys
So Jonathan isaac is basically just. Out but point taking
is they could use a they could use a backup
five riom. PROTECTOR i think they could use another unless
Maybe Nee clifford is just ready right. Away but maybe
then maybe you have between Him keegan And Kean ellis
you just have enough? Wings uh, yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, God, Dan, dan it doesn't, matter it's.
Speaker 1: Irrelevant i'm just trying to talk to myself in the
theory of this.
Speaker 2: Roster you're sitting in the arm way all the kings
Like Jonathan, Isaac, dude what are you? Doing what are you?
Doing doesn't?
Speaker 1: Matter what's more likely A pi right? Now what's more
likely The king's trade one of their guards before the
start of the, season or they Extend Zach.
Speaker 2: Levine, no more likely that the trade one of their.
Guards let's be. Real that. Depends that depends because If
sag is open to like declining that last year and
he gets like flat, thirty, like, well how.
Speaker 1: Many years out do you have to? Go then if
he's gonna give.
Speaker 2: Up probably million, bucks probably.
Speaker 1: Four because what is his player option For it's like
forty nine million or, something, right.
Speaker 2: Forty Nine, yeah so, yeah that's twenty down. Almost, Yeah,
no that's not, huge there's no. Way, yeah you'd had
to give him four years even but if.
Speaker 1: You're him four years and one hundred and, twenty you're getting.
Speaker 2: You're, Right, no that's not. Enough he's gonna have thirty
five at. Least then all, Right, no so you know
What i'm gonna, say the trading of a.
Speaker 1: Guard, yeah that's, honestly that's that's the most. OPTIMISTIC i
think that's the place to leave. It that's super awesomeate
optimistic of. Us we're onto The San Antonio. Spurs you
did you you didn't spoil, this but you talked about
this a little. Bit could Darn fox he's gonna be
eligible for an? Extension could they ghost talks get interesting or?
No because when they acquired, him they didn't know that
they were going to have The Dylan harper. Pick so it's,
like does do things get a little? Weird do you
expect him to still sign an? Extension do you think
it'll come in less than the? Max are you thinking, here.
Speaker 2: If lucas signs the, EXTENSION i Think Jaron fox signs the.
Extension that's Where i'm. At but the thing, is what
is the? Extension like what WOULD i go full max on?
This absolutely, not absolutely. NOT i Loved Aron. FOX i
would not go like full Boat max on this.
Speaker 1: One so it's full boat max if the if they
stay for the uh seven thirty, right like, yeah, both,
yeah it's a well the seven percent, increases it's like
four years and two twenty two point.
Speaker 2: Four here's the. Thing The spurs are in such an
adventageous position because we are going to see so many
guys just, say, hey we want to get there because
they know that that could be a path to a
title and they could be part of something very very special.
There so that means that they have to look at
The Aaron fox and, go is this the best player
we can? Get is this the best co star we
realistically can? Get To wimby the answer there like it
better be yes if you are extending, him because if you,
are that's your, core that is your like running mate for.
Him so you have to be sure that there aren't more,
exciting better obviously options out there before you. Do so
don't pull the trick unless you're.
Speaker 1: Sure what do you think is like a number that
you'd be comfortable? Doing AND i throw The lucas stuff
out of the.
Speaker 2: Equation oh, okay we've just throw The lucas stuff. Out
what is the right? Number that's a really good, question.
Speaker 1: Like does four? For so you don't want to give
him the max is four for two.
Speaker 2: Hundred, yeah so what that that's fifty eight?
Speaker 1: Year, yeah, yeah fifty eight year by the, WAY i
think he, Is, ah that's a. Lot he's been extension
eligible for a. While he can sign one Through october, twentieth,
Apparently so the fact that we haven't seen one might
be a little, interesting right that might that actually lends
merit to WHAT i thought was a batshit Crazy, luca
BECAUSE i just feel like the spurs don't operate on that.
Wavelength maybe, not BUT i, mean, well, no just some
credence has just been lent to your to your hair brain.
Theory apparently it wasn't so hair. Brained look at. You
so you don't like four for two, HUNDRED i.
Speaker 2: Don't and the thing, IS i actually Like Jaron fox
a great, deal but that lack of a jump, shot
or while not a jump, shot he's got a, jumper
the three point, shots specifically.
Speaker 1: The waxing and waning of, it for, sure exactly.
Speaker 2: It concerns the shit out of, me especially you want
to if you want to optimize that parent between him And.
Wemby that just makes me nervous as.
Speaker 1: Hell so why does it concern you When wemby is
already such a good shoot You, no he's a.
Speaker 2: Spacer BUT i, want, like If i'm The, SPURS i
want to make sure THAT i have someone who is
very reliable as an outside shooter who's also a ball.
Handler and Considering Stefan castle right now is one of
the worst contested three point shooters in the. League Dylan
harper is a major question mark as a, shooter and
Then fox as, well where he's had like what one
good year which seems like an outlier year from three
and then everything else has been sort of. PEDESTRIAN i
just don't feel great about. That, LIKE i want to
make sure that If i'm The spurs And i'm, Leaving
i'm putting my chips into The wemby, bag you, know
OBVIOUSLY i want to make sure that everything around him
is as is as optimized as humanly. Possible is that
the case With? Fox? There if you're paying him fifty
million a, YEAR i don't love, It, DAN i don't so.
Speaker 1: This as someone who's always counted themselves as higher On
fox's jump shot than the. Consensus this backs up your.
Point so over the past four, seasons here's Where fox
is ranked in catch and shoot three point percentage and
then pull up three point percentage twenty twenty, two the
fifty eighth percentile in catch and, shoot the first percentile
and pull up threes in twenty twenty, three forty seventh
percentile in catch and shoot, threes the second percentile in
pull up threes in twenty twenty, four that vaunted season you,
referenced the seventy second percentile in catch and shoot, threes
the eighty seventh percentile in pull up threes last, year
the thirty fifth percentile in catch and shoot, threes and
the fourteenth percentile in peru. Threes so there's a lot
Of i'm supporting your. Point there's a lot of truth
to what you're. Saying AND i say that as someone
who thinks that the pull up two and the step
back three From Diaron, Fox i'll forever, trust maybe for
some irrational, reason but you are correct that twenty twenty
four was a major outlier for.
Speaker 2: Him it, was and it's something that bothers me because it's,
like you, know people have this tendency to like see
a guy who has this sort of a breakout season
and then, go, oh that's the new. Norm, automatically and
then they expect that to be, consistent and then when
he like regresses to the, means people are, like, oh,
well well he'll bounce back again from what honestly like
that that wasn't a bounce back. Thing that was just
him returning to. Norm SO i, Look i'm not going
to sit here and say that The fox should be
on the Fun max, like that's not What i'm, saying but, like,
oh IT'S i would much prefer it over you, know
a thirty. Percenter and again with the second, Day, like
eventually this team is going to be. Expensive it's going
to be very. Expensive and if he's earning fifty million
a year and can't freaking pull up with them three
at any reasonable, rate THEN i think it's perfectly reasonable
to say that that could be a bad.
Speaker 1: Contract i'm wondering if it ends up being, shorter then you,
know we're talking a lot about the price. Point i'm
wondering if this ends up being like a two plus
one or. Something, right if he doesn't get an, extension
by the, way that's going to be like a five,
alarm five alarm fire for the speculation, factory right, Right,
yeah our final team in The Western. Conference The Utah
jazz our one rule breaker to extend or not to
Extend Walker Kessler. More this is a ROOKIE extensi where
don't want to talk About larry marketing trades anymore that
it doesn't move. Me SO i don't think that's a
piece of business they need to figure. Out but that's
why we're going this.
Speaker 2: Direction so you're asking me if he should be. Extended
Can i'll answer my own question if you don't mind, Raid,
YES i would love.
Speaker 1: That YET i think they absolutely should extend. HIM i
think that he's kind of in that tier of players
where you always see these trade packages for, him And
i'm Sure i've maybe even proposed some of them WHERE
i just don't think they effectively align with the value
he provides as a rim. Protector AND i think there's
a lot Of, okay look at what he doesn't do on,
offense he's not the most switchable. Big last, Year, more
he ranked in the ninetieth percentile or better OF rim
contest per seventy five, possessions rim points saved per seventy five,
possessions and shooting percentage allowed at the rim versus. Expected
It's i'm, sorry that was each of the past three
seasons the ninetieth percentile or. Better that's all per B Ball.
Index do you know who else has done that over
that span while logging at least one thousand minutes in each?
Season tell me absolutely. Nobody So i'm not saying he's
the game's best rim, protector BUT i do think that
he is when it comes to being a conventional rim,
protector like. Transformative and so If i'm The jazz and
like the leverage that it seems like teams have with
bigs and extension, talks maybe you're worried about a jail
AND duran extension coming through for way more but, More
Mark williams hasn't gotten an extension. Yet if you're looking
at like if he'll Take Yakob pertle, money but that
should just be like done, me like twenty to twenty
four million a, year like or Even Nicholas claxton, money,
Right like aren't you just pouncing on.
Speaker 2: That if you're, utah, yeah immediately, yes.
Speaker 1: BECAUSE i don't. Understand maybe YOU'RE i guess what you're.
Betting maybe you're trying to keep him trade. Eligible if
you don't extend, him he still would be able to be.
Traded but we know how the poison pill provision. WORKS
i just as someone who's on his rookie scale, SALARY
i don't know what type of value he's going to
bring back unless you're including you have that huge trade.
EXCEPTION i. KNOW i just think that that's overthinking, it
AND i would argue that he just might be more
valuable on his next contract if you're looking to move
him next offseason at a larger price point and not
have to go through the rigamarole of the base year
compensation if it's a sign in. Trade SO i don't
think they should play any, games AND i think they
should just extend. Him there's, also by the, WAY i
should have mentioned this at the, top he might just
be a core piece of their.
Speaker 2: Team yeah. RIGHT i don't have a lot to add to,
that because, YEAH i totally. Agree what is The SO
i guess my question is what is your walkaway? Price if?
Speaker 1: Anything, so If i'm The jazz and that we know
how restricted free agency has worked for like the past
half decade or, so where doesn't feel like there's a
lot of offer. Sheets IF i get over the twenty
five million dollar, Marker i'm probably, Like, okay let's we're
trying to get something out of. This is it more
of a team freendly? Deal and so if he wants
more Than Nick claxton, got which would then he get
like four for one hundred when he signed, It, Yeah
i'm probably like you could probably still talk me into
if he wanted like start at twenty five million and
then go up to twenty six and twenty. Seven, like
you could probably talk me into like four for one
oh nine or, something or maybe five for one twenty
five or something around. There excuse, me five for one point.
Thirty but my walkaway number is probably a lot higher
than some other people's would. Be i'll say that.
Speaker 2: MUCH i think you're. RIGHT i think a lot of
people thinking about the center spot these days and, going, oh,
well you can just sign them and it's not a big. Deal,
well not this type of, player like the.
Speaker 1: Truly To charlotte And boston right, now.
Speaker 2: Right, exactly like the truly impactful defensive centers who have legit,
size who aren't you, know playing with heart and, hustle
who are like six' nine and do they do very
very well that that that, Height level like this is
this is someone with, real size, real skill real influence
where you don't have to like, feel, like oh he
has to compensate for a lack of size. Or whatever
like this guy. Is huge this guy's absolutely. Freaking huge
he is, so agile, he's movable. He's flexible he'll. Block
shots he'll he'll actually block a ton. Of them he'll.
Grab rebounds he's the best offensive rebounder in. The league
he'll hit, on putbacks he'll, get lobs like, you know
if he gets just one or two moves in the
post or a counter or a bit of. A midy.
I'm there and he's only. Twenty four he just turned,
twenty four like four. Days, ago like this guy is
not even close to done. To, Develop yeah i'm. Paying him.
Speaker 1: He's like he's kind Of Like miles turner in a
way right where it feels like he's, so valuable but
then the trade offers never seem to match up with
how valuable, He, is, like oh could we get him
for like a top twenty protective first round pick. Or something,
and apparently if You're, the bucks you just need to
wave And Stretch damian lillard And Get.
Speaker 2: Miles turner But Unlike. Myles turner he can actually rebound.
Speaker 1: Though cruel can? He shoot he did try to shoot
threes When the jets were like full, on tanking probably
based off the direction that they're headed in, THIS year
i think he's gonna be taking some more.
Speaker 2: Threes perhaps look if he becomes just moderately good for three,
point shooter like just you know forty, three.
Speaker 1: Percent Ate nate duncan calls it a. Party trick if
he has like a party trick, three pointer Like A
jonus fountain junis, type three like it doesn't need to
If It's, brook lopez then forget. About it how Many
Like all? Star games is this guy? Making?
Speaker 2: Right EXACTLY am i wrong for SAYING that i Like
Like walker kessler More Than Jared. Jackson jr are?
Speaker 1: You? Wrong no but we're talking on their. Current, contracts
no But Like Jared jackson junior is. More dynamic he, has, like.
Speaker 2: Yes a score. Or that but but we were Talking
About walker kessler twenty four to twenty, Five million like
we agree that that's like from a, value perspective and
like what what what is What is jaron making? Right
now it's?
Speaker 1: At, fifty no he's not. At fifty he's gonna be.
Speaker 2: Oh thirty, five, right sorry, all, right okay then it's not.
Acid creaches i'm gonna withdraw, my, Question.
Speaker 1: Right So, jared Jackson If. Jared jacksonr is making Double
When walker kessler makes those, next deal, then yeah it's
probably a, Conversation maybe, but uh THIS is i think
this is one that people might, overthink THOUGH and, i,
understand like would you give him as Much As jared
allen got is his extension With. The cavs wasn't that
basically ended up being three for what ninety or whatever?
It was or is that? Too Hot Because jared allen
does like there's definitely more, switchability there he has more
scoring chops. For sure that's probably a, Little rich but
that might Be If I'm walker kester and his agent
AND like i know my room, PROTECTION numbers i might
be looking. At, That Yeah So jared awllen was three
for ninety About, AROUND.
Speaker 2: Yeah i mean it's beginning to reach that point where, you're, like,
oh okay we need, more offense and like you alluded,
to it if we see any type of like real
offensive Development From walker kestler, this season just in terms
of like again having a legitimate, post game or having
a reliable like long two and the occasional, three pointer
and or if he just starts hitting like seventy percent
of his, foul shots and that seems like. It's sustainable
if we're seeing just some level of offensive improf that
seems to. Be sustainable his price tag is like just
gonna jump jump jump.
Speaker 1: Jump, jump well do you think when it comes to
restricted free agents specifically and knowing what his best case outcome,
might be do you see a team coming in with
an offer sheet next year that would be like Make
the jazz a little skittish, or anything just because that
WOULD be i think that's The conversation utah will have
behind closed, Doors, is yeah we really, like him we
would pay him a bunch, of money but we're not
scared of someone coming in and giving him an offer
sheet for a bunch of money just, BECAUSE one rfa
doesn't seem to work that, way anymore and two when
it does work, that way like who's the last big
man that got like this massive offer sheet and restricted?
Speaker 2: Free, agency well first, and foremost let's identify the players
currently ON the rfa markets where we keep. Talking, About
right So It's Josh Gitty, cameron Thomas It's jonathan Kuminga And.
Quentin crimes those are the four people that we're. Talking
About Like josh kitty.
Speaker 1: Just signed for five years and one hundred and, Thirty
million like, Right now i'm. JUST kidding i wanted to.
Speaker 2: SEE if i thought, it's one, am man don't mess.
WITH me i, was, like what, all right you got
me on. That, one actually See now i've forgot. My
point god.
Speaker 1: Damn it you were going through the list, of, RFAs, yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, Right right so all of them have major question
marks in regards to their to, their, influence right you
cannot have a question Mark About walker kesler's. Defensive influence
so like there would be teams out there who immediately
Would Identify walker kestler as someone who can add a
significant portion of wins to, their total, whereas, like oh
let's go out And Sign. Josh skiddy is your wins
total moving in the right direction if you? Sign him
or is this going the? Other way that's a legitimate
question to Say that kuminga does he move the needle
at that point yet or is he a couple of
years away from? Doing That, cam thomas what kind of
role are you looking at, for him like what? Is,
that like is he going to you're? Starting too do
you want to miss your? Sixth man god forbid to
just propose that he's gonna come after? Me now but Like,
with kesser those questions. Aren't there, you know, the impact
you know he's gonna like help you turn into what
a add worst what top? Twelve defense probably.
Speaker 1: JUST why i think people would point to and Say
the jazz were not a top, twelve defense.
Speaker 2: All right but what they were, also young they were trying.
To lose i'm talking about a team that was actually
trying to like, be competitive like sign him as, an
asset Right the jazz themselves like they were not trying
to be a serious basketball team. Last season are?
Speaker 1: YOU sure.
Speaker 2: I feel pretty sure. About, that yeah just a, LITTLE
bit a.
Speaker 1: Little, bit no that's a that's a very. FAIR point
I think i would also. BE curious i don't even
know what they ended up being defensively with him on,
the court because they had the what were they twenty
NINTH in uh defensive efficiency last year And.
Speaker 2: With walker carti they actually Had the leak's Worst DEFEN
but i don't think That. WAS kesler, i MEAN obviously
i think.
Speaker 1: That was kesler's fault and he should get five dollars. A,
year no they were in the twenty fifth, percent tile or,
excuse me they were in the eighteen percent tile with
him on, the FLOOR which, i mean you gotta look
at some of the lifts he, Was pulling Like If
lowry marketing's at The Four cody williams Was, Playing, sexton yeah,
yoh yeah some rough lineups he was in man Him.
AND hendricks i think they could be a pretty formidable. Front,
court well too far afield, on that BUT so i
get your. POINT there i guess it really comes, down
to like some of the teams that could technically have
cap space, Next, year like would they be teams that
are gonna be in the market for A big brooklyn
if they have? Cap space. Probably not chicago could be
they might be a cap. Space team who else? IS there,
i Mean the clippers could be a cap. Space team
they're not gonna need. A Center the lakers could technically need.
A Center DeAndre ayton's like that's a one. Plus, one uh.
Speaker 2: Talk to me About. The pistons what are we looking at?
Speaker 1: Next Year The PISTON so i guess that a lot
if you're not Gonna, Keep jalen Duran or Jay and
ivy on. The books looking at their, cap holes they
could technically be A cap, SPACE team i. Would, assume,
so yeah they're looking at well they're negative, eight team
but with those, cap holds so they have oh There's
The duncan robinson moneies on that as those only.
Speaker 2: For two million. Next, year, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah and Jay and ivy has a thirty million dollar
cap Hold and duran Has a i'm assuming if You're,
Getting kessler duran's, Not there so they have fifty million
dollars tied up in cap Holes for Durna. And, ivy
yeah they could be A cap space team, for sure.
Speaker 2: ALL right i mean that that's the scene, for him, If, anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah that'd be. PRETTY scary i Think like duran's shown
more as a passer, for sure maybe in space. As,
well yeah that would. BE. MAN. J jb bickerstaff would.
Love him. M, Hmm yeah.
Speaker 2: I'M not I love duran by. THE way I, love
durant but like he's still what. HE'S six i would
kill to have, his debts that's, for sure but he's,
shorter defensively he's definitely not as Advanced as kessler by,
any stretch at least. NOT yet i don't think he'll
ever be offensive potential. Significantly higher i'll give. Him that,
why now that's a Pretty Easy walker.
Speaker 1: Kessler advantage and, to, ME look i think it kind
of singles out. To hi is it only takes one
team to just come in, and, say like that's, our
guy and like If the lakers have calvespace And the
pistons could, have calfspace like that's probably enough of an.
Existential threat And, even Chicago, like Chicago who's chicago's big
man in, The future maybe They'll. Extend vouch maybe that's what.
Speaker 2: They'll do? Why, Not, RIGHT well i could come with.
Speaker 1: A bunch of reasons for, why not But the bulls
could probably come up with a bunch of Reasons.
Speaker 2: Why, yeah yeah no.
Speaker 1: For sure so do you think to wrap, this up
do you think They Extend? WALKER kessler.
Speaker 2: I, Hope so, BUT no i don't think.
Speaker 1: THEY will i think they're, going TO and i think
it'll be for twenty plus million.
Speaker 2: A year i hope. You're right.
Speaker 1: Moret this was fun and we said five minutes per team.
WE average i don't even know what the what it
ended up being but two hours and ten, minutes later
the live stream. Was fun we'll be back With the
east at. Some point can you just tell our, fine, listeners,
watchers subscribers haters where they can find you and all
the fantastic work that.
Speaker 2: You, do well thank you. So much you can find
my work Over At, yahoo sports you can find It,
at forbes you can find it AT the nba podcast
and if You speak danish and also listen to The
Podcast busser.
Speaker 1: Beat and.
Speaker 2: Oh only fans, Of, course yes HOW could i? Start out,
that's right that's my primary. Income, source yes HOW could?
I forget.
Speaker 1: Until? Next time and, as always we moved a shout
out to, the one, the only, be indelible the one
who could fix every single team's problem and should be on,
their Radar mister frank