Speaker 1: Latest interview of Elon Musk.
Speaker 2: We have a profoundly important announcement to make, which is
Speaker 2: the most epic chip building exercised in history by far.
Speaker 1: This is really going to take things to the next level.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, a level probably people aren't even contemplating right now.
Speaker 2: This is not in the OUTCOLI is a sort of
Speaker 2: an out of context problem. It's not in their context.
Speaker 2: So we're going to adjust the context by a few
Speaker 2: orders of ninet tude. Here it's a joint effort. I'm
Speaker 2: pressing the button, but the button's not working. We're starting
Speaker 2: to be a galactic galactic civilization. So I think the
Speaker 2: future that everyone, well most people, I think would agree
Speaker 2: is the most exciting is one where we are out
Speaker 2: there among the stars, where we are not forever confined
Speaker 2: to one planet, that we become a multi planet species,
Speaker 2: like the best science science fiction that you've ever read,
Speaker 2: you know, Star Trek or in Banks or Asimov or Heinlen,
Speaker 2: And we want.
Speaker 1: To make that real.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not just fiction, turn science to fiction to science fact.
Speaker 2: That's the glorious, exciting future that I certainly look forward to,
Speaker 2: and it's worth considering sort of like, how would you
Speaker 2: rate civilizations. You know, there's so there was a physicist,
Speaker 2: I think it was Russian in the sixties, Karta chef.
Speaker 2: He thought about, at a high level, how would you
Speaker 2: consider any given civilization, and he said, well, if you're
Speaker 2: type one, you're using most of the energy of your planet.
Speaker 2: And we actually still have quite a ways to go
Speaker 2: to be properly a type one. We're still using a
Speaker 2: tiny fraction of the Sun's energy that reaches our planet.
Speaker 2: Let's see here we are, but the Earth only receives
Speaker 2: about half a billionth of the Sun's energy.
Speaker 1: So the Sun is truly enormous.
Speaker 2: The Sun is a ninety nine point eight percent of
Speaker 2: all masts in the Solar System. So sometimes people will
Speaker 2: ask me like what about you know, other power sources
Speaker 2: of power on Earth, Like what about fusion on Earth? Well,
Speaker 2: that is unfortunately very small, because the Sun is ninety
Speaker 2: nine point eight percent of mass in the Solar System,
Speaker 2: and Jupiter is about point one percent, and Earth is
Speaker 2: in the miscellaneous category.
Speaker 1: We are. I think it's called saying.
Speaker 2: I think might have said Earth is is like a
Speaker 2: tiny dust mote in a vast darkness, very very small.
Speaker 1: The Sun is enormous.
Speaker 2: So the way to actually scale civilization is to scale
Speaker 2: power in space.
Speaker 1: This is necessarily true because we actually capture such.
Speaker 2: A tiny amount of the Sun's energy on Earth, because
Speaker 2: we're just this tiny dust mode. Another way to think
Speaker 2: of it is roughly like electricity production on Earth of
Speaker 2: whole of civilization is only about a trillionth of the
Speaker 2: Sun's energy, which means if you increase civilizational power output
Speaker 2: by a million you would still only be a millionth
Speaker 2: of the Sun's energy. I mean, it's all inspiring to
Speaker 2: consider that just how tiny we are in the grand
Speaker 2: scheme of things. And yeah, we often get sort of
Speaker 2: caught up in the sort of these sort of squabbles
Speaker 2: on Earth that are really very sort of minor things
Speaker 2: in when you consider the grandness of the universe, and
Speaker 2: so I think it's it is important actually to consider
Speaker 2: the grandness of the universe and what we can do
Speaker 2: that is much greater than what we've done before, as
Speaker 2: opposed to worry about sort of small squabbles on Earth
Speaker 2: type of thing.
Speaker 1: Not much point in that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we want to be a civilization that expands to
Speaker 2: the galaxy with spaceships that anyone can go anywhere they want.
Speaker 1: That would be epic and have a.
Speaker 2: City on the Moon's cities on Mars, populate the Solar System,
Speaker 2: and send spaceships to other star systems. That sounds like
Speaker 2: the best possible future. So to do that we need
Speaker 2: to harness the power of the zone and so a terrifab.
Speaker 2: While it is enormous, a terror wad of compute. Forer
Speaker 2: year is enormous by our sort of civilizational standards, it
Speaker 2: is still just one step along the way of being
Speaker 2: even a cotdtership. You're still have a long way to
Speaker 2: go to even be a coardship two level civilization, and
Speaker 2: you're not even registering as a cordtership three. So it's
Speaker 2: a very big thing by current human standards, but it
Speaker 2: still small in the grand scheme, and it's very difficult
Speaker 2: for humans. So to accomplish this very difficult goal really
Speaker 2: requires a combination of efforts of SpaceX, XAI and Tesla
Speaker 2: working together to create this epic Terrify project. And Tesla
Speaker 2: and XAI and SpaceX have all done amazing things that
Speaker 2: people did not think would be done before.
Speaker 1: So there's the gig of Giga Texas bad here, there's
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: The Optimists robot that's being built, there's a global supercharging network.
Speaker 1: There's really quite a lot.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't that long ago when people thought electric
Speaker 2: cars would wouldn't amount to anything, and they were. There
Speaker 2: were basically no electric cars for sale when when Tesla
Speaker 2: started and people said it was impossible, and now tells
Speaker 2: us making two million electric cars a year. And then Xai,
Speaker 2: although it's a new company now part of SpaceX, has
Speaker 2: also booked the first gigaway scale compute cluster, which in
Speaker 2: record time. Jensen Wrong from a video said he's never
Speaker 2: seen anything built so fast in his life before. So
Speaker 2: it's a great compliment from from in video. And then SpaceX. Uh, well,
Speaker 2: I guess you can read it for yourself. Well you
Speaker 2: already know. I mean the reusable rockets. People said that
Speaker 2: reusable rockets weren't possible, and even if you did do them,
Speaker 2: they weren't be economically feasible. So we did them, and
Speaker 2: then we made them economically feasible, and now we've landed
Speaker 2: over five hundred times. And then we did the Falcon
Speaker 2: Heavy and now we're doing Starship. And Starship is a
Speaker 2: critical piece of the puzzle because in order to scale
Speaker 2: compute and scale power, you have to go to space,
Speaker 2: which means that you need massive payload to space.
Speaker 1: And Starship will enable that. So let's gives you sort
Speaker 1: of just a sense of scale.
Speaker 2: We've got some optimists there, optimists for scale, and optimist
Speaker 2: is about five to eleven, so it gives you a
Speaker 2: sense of the size of the Starship V three rocket.
Speaker 2: Stasha V four will be much longer. Actually, the Stasha
Speaker 2: V four will make Starship three look kind of short.
Speaker 2: So we'll expand with Sasha V three to two hundreds
Speaker 2: of payload to orbit from one hundred tons. We'll start
Speaker 2: with V three and then you can see that just
Speaker 2: the that's just a rough approximation of the the AI,
Speaker 2: the mini version of the AI SAD, so that's roughly
Speaker 2: one hundred kilo whites. It's showing the solar panels and
Speaker 2: the radiator to scale. So for some reason there's been
Speaker 2: a bizarre debate about radiators in space. It's safe to
Speaker 2: say SpaceX knows how to do heat rejection in space
Speaker 2: with ten thousand satellites, and over might know a thing
Speaker 2: or two. So you can see the radiator is actually
Speaker 2: quite small relative to the solar panels, and we'll call
Speaker 2: it the mini sad.
Speaker 1: Since that's just one hundred kilo.
Speaker 2: Whites, we expect future satellites to probably go to the
Speaker 2: megawatt range.
Speaker 1: So in order to get to the terra watt.
Speaker 2: Of compute per year, you need about ten million tons
Speaker 2: two over per year, and at a HydroD killer what's
Speaker 2: per ton. So we're confident this is feasible, like no
Speaker 2: new physics or impossible things are required to get there.
Speaker 2: So I'm confident that actually that SpaceX will get to
Speaker 2: ten million tons toward per year, and then we're building
Speaker 2: up to a terrawatt of solar, so that solves the
Speaker 2: will solve the solar problem the power generation, So then
Speaker 2: the key missing ingredient is therefore a terrawat of compute.
Speaker 2: So this announcement is about solving the key missing ingredient.
Speaker 2: To give you a sense of what we're talking about,
Speaker 2: the current output of AI compute is roughly twenty gigawats
Speaker 2: per year. This chart explains why we need to build
Speaker 2: the terror fat because all of the rest of the
Speaker 2: output from Earth is about two percent of what we need.
Speaker 2: So if you add up all the fabs on Earth combined,
Speaker 2: they're only about two percent of what we need. For
Speaker 2: the Terra wid project or TERRAFAB project. So you know,
Speaker 2: we certainly want our existing supply chain to be clear.
Speaker 2: We're very grateful to our existing supply chain to Samsung, TSMC,
Speaker 2: Micron and others, and we would like them to expand as.
Speaker 1: Quickly as they can, and we will buy all of
Speaker 1: their chips. I have said these.
Speaker 2: Exact words to them, but there's there's a maximum rate
Speaker 2: at which they're comfortable expanding.
Speaker 1: But that rate is much less than we would like.
Speaker 2: And so we we either build the terrafab or we
Speaker 2: don't have the chips, and we need the chips, so
Speaker 2: well build tear fab. And we're signing off with an
Speaker 2: Advanced Technology fab here in Austin, and.
Speaker 1: I believe Governor Abbott is in the audience.
Speaker 2: I'd like to thank Governor Abbott and the State of
Speaker 2: Texas for the support. So in the Advanced Technology Fab,
Speaker 2: we will have all of the equipment necessary to make
Speaker 2: a chip of any kind logical memory, and we will
Speaker 2: also have all of the equipment necessary to make the
Speaker 2: lithography masks. So in a single building we can create
Speaker 2: a lithography mask, make the chip, test the chip, make
Speaker 2: another mask, and have an incredibly fast recurse of loop
Speaker 2: for improving the chip design. To the best of my knowledge,
Speaker 2: this doesn't exist anywhere in the world where you've got
Speaker 2: everything necessary to build logic memory and do packaging and
Speaker 2: test it and then do the masks, improve the masks,
Speaker 2: and just keep looping it.
Speaker 1: So we're not just going to do conventional compute in this.
Speaker 2: I think there's some very interesting new physics that is
Speaker 2: potentially that I actually I'm confident will work.
Speaker 1: It's just a question of one.
Speaker 2: So this is going to we're really going to push
Speaker 2: the limit of physics and compute, and we're going to
Speaker 2: try a bunch of wild and crazy things, which you
Speaker 2: can do if you've got that fast iteration move that.
Speaker 2: I can't emphasize enough the importance of being able to
Speaker 2: make a chip tested and then make and then change
Speaker 2: the design.
Speaker 1: Do another one, and have that in a single building.
Speaker 2: I think that our recursive improvement with that situation is
Speaker 2: probably an order of magnitude better than anything else in
Speaker 2: the world. So broadly speaking, we expect to make two
Speaker 2: two kinds of CHIRP, so one will be optimized for
Speaker 2: edge and inference, so that'll be used primarily in optimists
Speaker 2: and in the cars, but especially an optimists because I
Speaker 2: expect the robots, humanoid robots to be made ten to
Speaker 2: one hundred times more than the volume of cars. So
Speaker 2: you know, if vehicle production vical production growth is about
Speaker 2: one hundred million vehicles a year, and I expect humanoid
Speaker 2: robot production to be somewhere between a billion and ten
Speaker 2: billion years a year.
Speaker 1: So it's a lot.
Speaker 2: So yeah, tells is going to make a very significant
Speaker 2: percentage of those is our goal. And then we need
Speaker 2: a high power chip that is designed for space that
Speaker 2: takes into account the more difficult environment in space where
Speaker 2: you've got high power energy ions photons, you had electron
Speaker 2: build up, it's a hostile environment in space. So you
Speaker 2: want to design the chip, you want to optimize it
Speaker 2: for space, and you also want to generally run it
Speaker 2: a little hotter than you would normally run a chip
Speaker 2: on Earth to minimize the radiator mass. So they're just
Speaker 2: a bunch of constraints that you designed something differently in
Speaker 2: space than you went on the ground.
Speaker 1: And for the space compute, my.
Speaker 2: Guess is that is the vast majority of the compute
Speaker 2: because your power constrained on Earth. Why I think it's
Speaker 2: probably one hundred to two hundred gigawa's a year of
Speaker 2: terrestrial chips, and probably on the order of a tarrawat
Speaker 2: of ships in space, just because of power distraints on
Speaker 2: the ground. Is probably that's probably how it ends up.
Speaker 2: Space has this advantage that it's always sunny, it's very nice.
Speaker 2: So I actually think that the cost of AI and
Speaker 2: deploying AI in space will drop below the cost of
Speaker 2: terrestrial AI much sooner than most people expect. I think
Speaker 2: it may be only two or three years before it
Speaker 2: is actually lower cost to send AI chips to space
Speaker 2: than it is on the ground because in space you
Speaker 2: don't need much in the way of batteries because if
Speaker 2: it's always sonny and the solar power, you're going to
Speaker 2: get at least five or more times the solar power
Speaker 2: you get in space versus the ground, because you don't
Speaker 2: have atmospheric attenuation or a day night cycle or seasonality,
Speaker 2: and you're always normal to the Sun, so you're really
Speaker 2: maximizing the.
Speaker 1: Solar power at that point.
Speaker 2: And the space solar actually costs less than terrestrial solo
Speaker 2: because you don't need heavy glass or framing to protect
Speaker 2: it from extreme weather events. So as soon as the
Speaker 2: cost to orbit drops to a low number, it immediately
Speaker 2: makes extremely compelling sense to put AI in space.
Speaker 1: It becomes a no brainer. Basically.
Speaker 2: Moreover, as you go to space, you get increased economies
Speaker 2: of scale and things get easier over time, Whereas as
Speaker 2: you try to put more and more power on the ground,
Speaker 2: you run out of space and you start using up
Speaker 2: the easy spots, and then you get next level numbie.
Speaker 2: Nobody wants the thing in their backyard. So then so
Speaker 2: actually increasing power on Earth has becomes harder over time
Speaker 2: and more extensive over time, but in space it becomes
Speaker 2: actually cheaper.
Speaker 1: And easier over time. These are very important points.
Speaker 2: What you just saw there was because of course you're
Speaker 2: asking what's on your mind is, well, what do you
Speaker 2: do after a terrorfab?
Speaker 1: Don't think small? Well yeah, good point.
Speaker 2: So we you know, how do you get to a
Speaker 2: cattawat is the obvious next question, and you get there
Speaker 2: by having an electromagnetic mass driver on the moon with
Speaker 2: robots with optimize and obviously lots of humans, and.
Speaker 1: With that you can send a petalwat. You can create
Speaker 1: a pedalwat of compute and send that.
Speaker 2: To deep space, because on the moon has no atmosphere
Speaker 2: and has one six Earth gravity, so you can you
Speaker 2: don't need rockets on the Moon. You can literally accelerated
Speaker 2: to escapablocity from this surface, and that dramatically drops the
Speaker 2: costs once again of harnessing power and enables you to
Speaker 2: go a thousand times bigger than I tell a what.
Speaker 1: So, for sure, in the.
Speaker 2: Future, I want to see I want to just live
Speaker 2: long enough to see the mass driver on the Moon,
Speaker 2: because that's going to be incredibly epic. That should hopefully
Speaker 2: get us to a millionth of the Sun's energy at
Speaker 2: least humbling to think about that, but a million for
Speaker 2: the Sun's energy would be a million times bigger than
Speaker 2: its economy, So it's good from that perspective. And then yeah,
Speaker 2: you expand beyond that to the planet, to the other
Speaker 2: stars and create the most exciting possible future. Then that
Speaker 2: I can imagine this looks a bit like the opening
Speaker 2: an Idiocracy with the mic judge unluckying an age of
Speaker 2: amazing amount. So yeah, obviously the elements of that are
Speaker 2: sustainable energy, space travel and an R A I and
Speaker 2: robotics that bring amazing abundance to everyone. And it's really
Speaker 2: the it's really the only path to amazing abundance is
Speaker 2: a I R, A I and robotics, Which is not
Speaker 2: to say it can't go wrong hopefully, you know, but
Speaker 2: I think it'll probably go right, and it will be
Speaker 2: a future that you that you love, and.
Speaker 1: It's the best future I can think of at least.
Speaker 2: And then we go beyond the Moon, beyond Mars, and
Speaker 2: we sail through the rings of Saturn. They wouldn't it
Speaker 2: be amazing if you could buy a trip to Saturn. Frankly,
Speaker 2: if you just have a trip to Saturn, I think
Speaker 2: you fas would just be free in the future.
Speaker 1: It sounds nuts, but.
Speaker 2: You know, if you've got an AI robotics economy that
Speaker 2: is anywhere close to a million times the size of
Speaker 2: the current Earth economy, literally any need you possibly want
Speaker 2: can be met.
Speaker 1: If you can think of it, you can have it.
Speaker 2: So I think in Banks in his culture books has
Speaker 2: it pretty much right where there actually isn't money in
Speaker 2: the future and there is abundance for everyone. If you
Speaker 2: can think of it, you can have it. That's it,
Speaker 2: which means anyone could have a trip to Saturn. It
Speaker 2: won't be you know, just a few people. If you
Speaker 2: want it, you can have it. Yeah, join us on
Speaker 2: this journey and help us design incredible chips and make
Speaker 2: incredible ships and build a terror wat of ships, a
Speaker 2: terra awadi of solar and tell million tons to over
Speaker 2: it per year.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks for listening. See you in the next episode.