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<v Speaker 1>the description of the show notes down below. Thanks guys. Enjoy.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Eyes on Geopolitics.

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<v Speaker 1>We're here with the whole crew, Mick Moulroy, Andy Milburn,

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<v Speaker 1>Jonathan Hackett, and Mark Polymereopolis. Happy forth to everybody who

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<v Speaker 1>just passed July fifth. I hope everybody had a safe holiday.

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<v Speaker 1>Ate some hot dogs, didn't blow your hands off with fireworks.

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<v Speaker 1>It was fun. It was very hot here in New York,

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<v Speaker 1>but it was still a good time, all right, boys,

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<v Speaker 1>A lot happening as usual. I think we should kick

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<v Speaker 1>off today with talking about Ukraine. We have seen over

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<v Speaker 1>the last probably a couple of months now, Ukraine hitting

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<v Speaker 1>deep inside Russia, Russia's fuel supply being severely limited, where

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<v Speaker 1>it is that they're buying fuel from India to try

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<v Speaker 1>and keep up with the man. I did see a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of things where like we really won't see a

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<v Speaker 1>big difference until like it hits like their lubricitts and stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>and like their war machine gets hit a little bit more.

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<v Speaker 1>Russia also did come out the other day and claim

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<v Speaker 1>that they took over a town in uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Dombas area, which then Ukraine sent down in a salt

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<v Speaker 1>force and basically took it back. So it's interesting what's

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<v Speaker 1>going on they see Russia seems to be flailing. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>what are you guys tracking here? Let's go with Mark

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<v Speaker 1>poly Moreopolis first. Greeks first, Greeks he first.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I like that Greeks first. This is like a

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<v Speaker 2>Mick Molroy is but throwing in the Greeks. By the way,

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<v Speaker 2>I just have to one shout out to Mick. I've

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<v Speaker 2>been I don't have it with me. I've been reading

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<v Speaker 2>that all the Stoicism books, very inspiring and I started

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<v Speaker 2>giving them to all my friends and I have just

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<v Speaker 2>on a serious note, I have a friend who's going

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<v Speaker 2>to not government related, is going through some really tough times,

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<v Speaker 2>and I gave him that book. You know, the obstacle

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<v Speaker 2>is the way it really helped them. So good stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, most of the stoics know me. So this is

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<v Speaker 3>a book by a friend of mine. Two friend of

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<v Speaker 3>mine just came out, one that runs the earliest foundation

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<v Speaker 3>justin Seed and another one who's a professor at Oxford. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>we need these, we need them.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I like it. I gave it Look for the

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<v Speaker 2>Stoics Ukraine so interesting in a couple of different ways.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm gonna throw a little curveball in this because

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<v Speaker 2>the thing that I've been mokes focused on, which is

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<v Speaker 2>really weird. So first of all, there's certainly events on

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<v Speaker 2>the ground, and I think maybe you guys can cover

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<v Speaker 2>them in great more greater detail. What is interesting to

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<v Speaker 2>me is politically how things have changed in the United States.

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<v Speaker 2>Laura Lumer just put out a post where she said

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<v Speaker 2>I am now pro Ukraine. She loves Zelensky and she's

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<v Speaker 2>railing against others in the MAGA world who are who

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<v Speaker 2>She is obviously claiming to be perhaps correctly pro prutent

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<v Speaker 2>pro Russia. This is the Tucker Carlson's of the world,

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<v Speaker 2>Megan Kelly and others, And it's really interesting to see

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<v Speaker 2>and I think this actually does, this actually does have

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<v Speaker 2>some effects here in the United States because these individuals

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<v Speaker 2>on the right, whether they're podcasters or influencers, certainly kind

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<v Speaker 2>of move the way the MAGA movement in the Republican

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<v Speaker 2>Party goes sometimes. And Laura Lumer has the ear of

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<v Speaker 2>the President of the United States, there's no doubt on that.

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<v Speaker 2>So she now is a huge supporter of Ukraine. Now

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<v Speaker 2>you can kind of, you know, throw it in your

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<v Speaker 2>mouth and kind of because she's kind of she has

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<v Speaker 2>her own issues, massive ones. But it's really interesting and

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<v Speaker 2>so you know, how does this now translate when to

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<v Speaker 2>get to the next part. There are serious, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>issues ahead in terms of what the US willer will

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<v Speaker 2>not provide. I think the Ukrainians just asked us if

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<v Speaker 2>they can co produce patriots. So there's some things coming

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<v Speaker 2>down the pike, you know, in which there will be

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<v Speaker 2>some US policy decisions. But the thing I'm really looking

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<v Speaker 2>at d is is this really strange divide in the

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<v Speaker 2>MAGA movement over Ukraine.

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<v Speaker 1>Did she give any kind of reasoning why now she's

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<v Speaker 1>a pro Ukrainian or no. It was just like I

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<v Speaker 1>will come up.

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<v Speaker 3>Today because it looks like they're going to potentially turn

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<v Speaker 3>the tides. Winning tends to win over people more than

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<v Speaker 3>even logic. Sometimes I don't know who you're talking about necessarily,

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<v Speaker 3>but you know, if we get more people on board,

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<v Speaker 3>even if it's for the right wrong in different reasons,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm all for let's actually help with Ukraine witness.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, the Maga wright have done a flip, not just

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<v Speaker 4>on Ukraine but on Israel.

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<v Speaker 5>You know, Israel could do no wrong.

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<v Speaker 4>And now Israel is the country I'm paraphrasing magaworld right here,

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<v Speaker 4>is the country that is leading us down into the

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<v Speaker 4>dark abyss and has been feeding the president lies. And

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<v Speaker 4>it's it's interesting once the once that critical momentum starts,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, it's difficult to identify the turning point in

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<v Speaker 4>the Ukraine or in Israel, but it goes strongly the

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<v Speaker 4>other way suddenly, doesn't it.

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<v Speaker 3>So you I mean Ukraine Senator McCain used to say,

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<v Speaker 3>was a Ukraine. Russia was a gas station with an army,

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<v Speaker 3>and I think Ukraine said, great, take out the army

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<v Speaker 3>and the gas nation, right, So that's what's happening right now.

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<v Speaker 3>These long range strikes by Ukraine into areas, whether they're

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<v Speaker 3>logistical hubs, refinery, storage facilities, are now more deeper and

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<v Speaker 3>more effective than they were before. Ukraine's mass producing drones

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<v Speaker 3>every month, they produce more, every year, they'll produce more.

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<v Speaker 3>They're seriously challenging. In Crimea, there was fourteen significant strikes

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<v Speaker 3>in the last forty eight hours.

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<v Speaker 5>There.

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<v Speaker 3>We're not seeing an eminent fall in Ukraine. We're not

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<v Speaker 3>seeing an imminent, you know, or anywhere close to animinent

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<v Speaker 3>withdrawal of Russia. But Ukraine has gone from the back

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<v Speaker 3>foot to the front foot, and I think people recognize

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<v Speaker 3>it all of a sudden. There's people going, oh, maybe

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<v Speaker 3>we should support It's like, you can't support them when

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<v Speaker 3>they're you know, teetering on the brink, but you can

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<v Speaker 3>now Again. I would have hoped that the U, asked

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<v Speaker 3>the leader of the free world, would have been leading

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<v Speaker 3>discharge the whole time. But you know, if it takes

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<v Speaker 3>some people coming at the end, fine, But that needs

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<v Speaker 3>to be translated into direct support the US basically now

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<v Speaker 3>just allows them to purchase things through NATO. I think

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<v Speaker 3>NATO countries, European countries, countries around the world that are

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<v Speaker 3>that want to promote democracy and stability and counter you know,

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<v Speaker 3>naked aggression like Russia need to throw in with Ukraine

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<v Speaker 3>like now, not when they're on the Virgin winning now,

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<v Speaker 3>and this could push President Putin, who's under an incredible

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<v Speaker 3>amount of pressure internally. I mean, right now they've got

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<v Speaker 3>I think I saw the stat if you're recruited, and

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<v Speaker 3>by recruited, I mean basically conscripted into the Russian army,

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<v Speaker 3>you got about three week lifespan. Amazing includes includes going

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<v Speaker 3>through training, right Apparently on the battlefield now it was

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<v Speaker 3>like forty minutes. Yeah, you step foot on a battle

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<v Speaker 3>for you're dead for you. So the whole generation of

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<v Speaker 3>Russian males are being annihilated. And now it's become almost untenable,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, because the fuel shortages. Everything that's going on

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<v Speaker 3>in Russia is really putting pressure on Putin. He's gonna do,

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<v Speaker 3>of course, what Putin usually does, which is launch at civilians. Right.

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<v Speaker 3>We saw in Kiev last week, I think it was

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<v Speaker 3>like five hundred drones and almost seventy five missiles Senate

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<v Speaker 3>keep but and Andy can tell you spent a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of time there. I think that just makes them more resilient,

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<v Speaker 3>like there's no way you're going to kill more kids

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<v Speaker 3>and they're gonna quit. Like it's the opposite. They're never

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<v Speaker 3>gonna quit. And this is only going to firm up

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<v Speaker 3>their resolve to ensure that they save their country. So

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<v Speaker 3>it's now is the time for the West. And the

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<v Speaker 3>supporters of Ukraine include the United States, but more security

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<v Speaker 3>assistants direct security assistance into Ukraine with the idea that

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<v Speaker 3>it'll force I think putin to the negotiation table on

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<v Speaker 3>terms that are more are actually completely aligned with what

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<v Speaker 3>the Ukrainians want to see.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean the war.

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<v Speaker 4>It's it's flipped into a strange dual reality, right, So

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<v Speaker 4>Russia's grinding out its symbolic prize in the dombas and

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<v Speaker 4>the town you're talking about the is constantin I'm mispronouncing it.

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<v Speaker 1>I tried. I don't want to pronounce it.

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<v Speaker 4>We used to call it constantinivkas so as Constantinople with

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<v Speaker 4>Nivka on the end, but that's totally wrong. But anyway,

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<v Speaker 4>it's a ship home of the place. But nevertheless, I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>I've said that about puck Ross, but the similarity. The

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<v Speaker 4>point is, the Russians are grinding it out as they're

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<v Speaker 4>taking this territory at at just incredible cost. CSIS estimated

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<v Speaker 4>that they're advancing fifty meters a day. They're taking eight

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<v Speaker 4>times the casualties said the Ukrainians are, and those figures

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<v Speaker 4>come from Russi, you know, so this isn't stuff that

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<v Speaker 4>we're making up right, eight times casualties and they've seize this,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, after years of trying. They never got pop Ross,

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<v Speaker 4>but they've they they may have got Constantinika. The Ukrainians

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<v Speaker 4>are challenging that. And some of the videos you've seen

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<v Speaker 4>online of Russians waving flags there apparently are AI generated.

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<v Speaker 4>So they may not even have taken shithole town, right,

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<v Speaker 4>but if they have, it's that great costs they just

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<v Speaker 4>can't sustain it. And so they're grinding this out, but

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<v Speaker 4>simultaneously they're losing the strategic initiative Ukrainian Ukraine's running. I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>it's the most effective deep strike campaign of the war,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, to mixed point, I mean, going after cohesively,

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<v Speaker 4>going after Russian energy sources, reducing production by estimates of

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<v Speaker 4>twenty percent, which is huge, right. Not only that, but

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<v Speaker 4>look what they're doing in the Crimea and Crimea has

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<v Speaker 4>a tremendous symbolic value to both sides. Although it's probably

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<v Speaker 4>a bridge too far for the Ukrainians to win back,

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<v Speaker 4>but they've made it untenable. They've dropped the Kerse Bridge,

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<v Speaker 4>they've dropped the bridge that I forget the name, that

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<v Speaker 4>goes from Crimea to occupied Ukrainian territory, you know, towards

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<v Speaker 4>Kerson and they keep dropping them, so the Russians there

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<v Speaker 4>are trapped. And then systematically they've taken out the air

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<v Speaker 4>defense systems and so now what they're doing you can see,

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<v Speaker 4>they've just they're doing these mass drone raids on Russian

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<v Speaker 4>infrastructure across Crimera and apparently it's, you know, nothing can

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<v Speaker 4>move there. I mean you're looking at they're hitting, they

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<v Speaker 4>destroying the roads. So Russia has Crimea, yes, but it's

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<v Speaker 4>it's it's kind of a hollow price and it's becoming

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<v Speaker 4>a death trap for them, and of course it's you know,

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<v Speaker 4>the Ukraine is very clever at this. They know that

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<v Speaker 4>Putin will continue to pour forces into Crimea in a

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<v Speaker 4>vain attempt to defend it, but they're being attacked asymmetrically

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<v Speaker 4>from the air.

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<v Speaker 2>And what's the what's the pr value of them actually

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<v Speaker 2>dropping the Kirk Bridge, of actually doing it, finally destroying

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<v Speaker 2>it if they can. I mean, there's you see a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of talk of that. You hear even in town

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<v Speaker 2>here in d C. Ukrainian officials saying that this is inevitable,

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<v Speaker 2>it's coming, and you could see that that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the public relations value in doing so would be rather massive.

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<v Speaker 2>And then on top of that question for you is

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<v Speaker 2>and then what about the kind of the strategic yes

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<v Speaker 2>as well, and what would the Russian reprize will be? Sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>go ahead, yes.

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<v Speaker 4>So on your first part and Putin, uh, I've Putin

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<v Speaker 4>has kind of staked his reputation at times on the

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<v Speaker 4>Kersh Bridge. He keeps going on and on about it's

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<v Speaker 4>the umbilical cord and paraphrasing him that links Crimea to Russia,

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<v Speaker 4>et cetera, et cetera. And so, yes, the Ukrainiu has

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<v Speaker 4>gone after it. They've made it on and off untenable.

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<v Speaker 4>But it's strategically what they've done is they've just isolated

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<v Speaker 4>Crimea I mean totally. It's Crimea is now pretty much useless.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, it was used for for a number of reasons.

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<v Speaker 4>It was a port. But the Ukrainians have decimated the

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<v Speaker 4>Black Sea Fleet through their kind of mosquito fleet navy,

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<v Speaker 4>which is ironic that Ukrainians don't have a navy, but

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<v Speaker 4>they've done. They've done to the Russians what the Uranians

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<v Speaker 4>are doing. The Straits of hor moves, right, only they're

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<v Speaker 4>using unmanned they're using missiles, drones, and they're using unmanned

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<v Speaker 4>sea vessels.

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<v Speaker 5>Right.

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<v Speaker 4>So they've they've negated Crimea to the Black Sea fleet.

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<v Speaker 4>They've decimated the Black Sea Fleet, and now they prevented

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<v Speaker 4>it from being a logistics hub for the Southern Front.

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<v Speaker 4>They've prevented it being anything but just a giant missile

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<v Speaker 4>and drone and bomb sump. And it's infuriating Putin because

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<v Speaker 4>I remember, I mean from twenty fourteen he's banged on

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<v Speaker 4>and on about Crimea and now and now it's just

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<v Speaker 4>it's a it's this black hole, right, and.

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<v Speaker 3>This decision could actually lose in Crimea to do the

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<v Speaker 3>full invasion of Ukraine, which likely he would have kept Crimea.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, exactly, that as a viable and the Black Sea

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<v Speaker 4>Fleet and everything.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're right, Ye, a.

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<v Speaker 2>Worry of reprisals because this means so much to putin Well, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they dropped the bridge. Is he going to actually go

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<v Speaker 2>even crazier than he had has done so in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of the tax on civilian targets, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean, but I think to your point, Mark,

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<v Speaker 4>I think Russia is doing all it can right now.

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<v Speaker 4>And we're always talking about, well he's going to escalate,

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<v Speaker 4>What the hell more can you do? You know, he's already,

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<v Speaker 4>he's already hitting Kiev. He's you know, I think the

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<v Speaker 4>consensus is despite him always threatening to go to in Ucas,

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<v Speaker 4>he's unlikely to do that.

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<v Speaker 5>And and you know what I mean, what's that said?

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<v Speaker 4>Go on?

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<v Speaker 3>Nuclear would be like throwing a grade at somebody in

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<v Speaker 3>an elevator. Ok, you're right next door, man, literally right

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<v Speaker 3>next door. So if you start to use the nuclear weapons, yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>And and you know one thing I forgot to mention.

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<v Speaker 4>So they've destroyed a railroad bridge over this is all,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, everything that links Crimea to the mainland Russia

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<v Speaker 4>or Ukraine. That destroyed the bridges, They destroyed a railroad

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<v Speaker 4>bridge of the North Crimean Canal. They're even hitting and

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<v Speaker 4>now they're hitting ferries that the Russians are using to

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<v Speaker 4>to move military equipment, and Defense Minister feder Off says

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<v Speaker 4>Crimea is being isolated by drones and effectively is being

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<v Speaker 4>turned into an island. They've declared a state of emergency.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, it's gonna be interesting. And Moscow is the

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<v Speaker 4>one that's cut the Kosh Bridge rail traffic just because

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<v Speaker 4>of the risk to traffic going across the bridge. So

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<v Speaker 4>so Crimea has been isolated, it's been negated as being

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<v Speaker 4>any any sort of asset to Russia. And then you've

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<v Speaker 4>got this deep strike campaign that's gone up a gear.

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<v Speaker 4>And so in just the last few days, trying the

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<v Speaker 4>last weeks, since the beginning of July, the Ukrainians have

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<v Speaker 4>hit twelve Russian substations. The Belograd was the Belograd thermal

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<v Speaker 4>power plant knocked out, which caused a huge total blackout auto.

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<v Speaker 5>Disruption across the city.

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<v Speaker 4>The main airfield in Crimea Siki I think it's called

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<v Speaker 4>s A k Y destroying Russian aircraft there and Saint Petersburg.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't know if you saw that. You know, the

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<v Speaker 4>film of this massive black cloud coming out of the

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<v Speaker 4>oil terminal in Saint Petersburg, struck by drones.

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<v Speaker 5>So it's it's.

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<v Speaker 4>A really yeah, you know that it's come to the

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<v Speaker 4>point where and I agree with you, Mick, I mean

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<v Speaker 4>we should have been piling on, of course, the support

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<v Speaker 4>Ukraine years ago, but Ukrainians are turning the type by themselves.

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<v Speaker 4>Of course, you've still got to win back territory and

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<v Speaker 4>that is the long pole for the Ukrainian state. They're

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<v Speaker 4>running out of manpower and that that is certainly an

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<v Speaker 4>issue for them. But strategically, yeah, they you know, they

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<v Speaker 4>they have turned the type.

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<v Speaker 3>Russian is the mass. You're gonna hear more and more

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<v Speaker 3>about this, this junction of seventeen gas pipelines. It's in

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<v Speaker 3>northwestern Siberia. Once they can hit that, that could have

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<v Speaker 3>a major major impact in general Russia. So I think

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<v Speaker 3>we should be obviously providing a lot more security assistance,

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<v Speaker 3>but we should also be doing we don't have to

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<v Speaker 3>be public about it, we don't need to know about

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<v Speaker 3>it and talk about it, but we should be doing

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<v Speaker 3>a lot more to push push the ah the tides toward.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's a uh, I mean, it's a fascinating topic

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<v Speaker 4>and Iran's kind of the cliffs that. But what has

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<v Speaker 4>been going on in the last three months is it

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<v Speaker 4>has been extraordinary. And you know, even when Russia, i

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<v Speaker 4>mean his operational insight, even when Russia wins right in Dombas,

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<v Speaker 4>it wins nothing. And I'm not just being facetious because

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<v Speaker 4>Constantinivka and pop rosca shithole town, So I mean they

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<v Speaker 4>are important to sites, especially Pokrovski it's a rail terminal.

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<v Speaker 4>But for the Russians having ground, you know, Constinivka is

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<v Speaker 4>it's a ruins of a small city, that's and it's

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<v Speaker 4>cost them tens of thousands of lives. And they the

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<v Speaker 4>Russians are exhausted. I mean they're not They're moving fifty

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<v Speaker 4>meters a day, which is slower than the British move

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<v Speaker 4>than the song and they're staring at tens of kilometers

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<v Speaker 4>of mind fortified drone patrol terrain between them and the

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<v Speaker 4>next objective, which is Krematrusk, which is basically Ukraine's last line.

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<v Speaker 5>Of defense internets.

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<v Speaker 4>So you know, even on the ground, the Russians are

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<v Speaker 4>their prospects don't look they don't look good.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, you know just the most recent development, which is

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<v Speaker 6>the ninety minute phone call that Trump had with Putin

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<v Speaker 6>yesterday during the Fourth of July celebrations, which is a

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<v Speaker 6>very interesting development, and as far as I know so

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<v Speaker 6>far what I've seen, the US didn't announce the details

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<v Speaker 6>of that call, but the Russian Foreign Ministry did, which

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<v Speaker 6>I think is also a little bit interesting because that's

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<v Speaker 6>similar to what was going on between the US and Iran,

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<v Speaker 6>where the US was not announcing any of the points

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<v Speaker 6>from the deal, but Iran was. And it seems that

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<v Speaker 6>Russia's doing the exact same thing right now, which means

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<v Speaker 6>the US doesn't have control over the narrative about what's

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<v Speaker 6>being said in those calls. So that's an opportunity for

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<v Speaker 6>the US policymakers to seize control the narrative and actually

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<v Speaker 6>say what needs to be said publicly. And I believe

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<v Speaker 6>Zelenski was also called yesterday as well. So my hunch

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<v Speaker 6>is that these calls were made ahead of the NATO

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<v Speaker 6>summit to get some things ironed out, so that way

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<v Speaker 6>those things can be discussed in person at the summit

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<v Speaker 6>with other NATO leaders, of course, and that's why the

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<v Speaker 6>Secretary General visited last week as well to get those

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<v Speaker 6>things kind of evened out in person before they're discussed

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<v Speaker 6>in Turkey coming up in the next few days.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean, Gloria victory is right now, it's purely

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<v Speaker 4>political because they can't win militarily at fifty meters a

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<v Speaker 4>day and half a million dead. So what it's doing

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<v Speaker 4>is buying negotiating chips, right, but just by trying to

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<v Speaker 4>seize a little more ground in don Esk and betting

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<v Speaker 4>that Western patients runs out before Russian manpower does.

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<v Speaker 3>And it's backbar and miserably right. I mean, his whole

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<v Speaker 3>purpose was he was concerned about the expansion of NATO

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<v Speaker 3>and the threat of NATO, even though NATO's never been

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<v Speaker 3>a threat to Russia unless Russia is a threat to it.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a defensive alliance, defensive alliance, right, So because of

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<v Speaker 3>his invasion of Ukraine, it's now expanded in two countries

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<v Speaker 3>it managed not to join for the entirety of the

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<v Speaker 3>Cold War, and now they have. And now although they

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<v Speaker 3>should have been doing it the whole time, but now

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<v Speaker 3>they are. All the countries are spending more money on

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<v Speaker 3>their national security and defense. There's I mean, look at

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<v Speaker 3>what Germany's doing right now increasing the size of its

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<v Speaker 3>its army, poland all across Europe. Right now, they are

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<v Speaker 3>becoming a stronger ally to the United States. I think

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<v Speaker 3>the United sty should recognize that we could take credit.

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<v Speaker 3>I guess we want to. I think it's largely because

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<v Speaker 3>of Russians of Asia Ukraine, but what have you. We

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<v Speaker 3>now have a more substantial military alliance than we did

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<v Speaker 3>before Russia invaded Ukraine, and Ukraine is going to be

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<v Speaker 3>the strongest military in Europe by far proper, but it is,

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<v Speaker 3>especially with Finland joining.

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<v Speaker 2>I agree with all that. The problem, of course, is

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<v Speaker 2>we don't know what the US administration wants to do

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<v Speaker 2>because it seems so divided. You know, there's there's the

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<v Speaker 2>there's all these reports that came out that Hegseth was

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<v Speaker 2>about to announce some very significant troop cuts. Uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Rubio and others kind of preempted him on this. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>there's this divide between kind of the Rubio Rancliffe Wing

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<v Speaker 2>Dan Kane versus versus heg Seth and JD.

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<v Speaker 5>Vance.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think that you know the problem is, I

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<v Speaker 2>mean you talk to European officials, you know, nobody really

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<v Speaker 2>knows what Trump's going to do, uh when he when

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<v Speaker 2>he gets to Turkey. Now he's going there because Radiwan

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<v Speaker 2>is his buddy, fellow autocrat, and so you know, he's

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<v Speaker 2>doing that as a reward. But you know, you just

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<v Speaker 2>don't know. At the end of the day, is the

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<v Speaker 2>US to announce significant true cuts in Europe? What kind

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<v Speaker 2>of tone is Trump going to send? You know, is

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<v Speaker 2>it going to be this kind of humiliation?

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<v Speaker 5>Will it be more?

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<v Speaker 2>And on the one hand, there is a notion, and

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if I subscribe to this, that because

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<v Speaker 2>the Ukrainians are doing better, Trump wants to back a winner,

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<v Speaker 2>and that the Laura Loomers of the world and Ratcliffe

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<v Speaker 2>and others who kind of have kind of been feeding

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<v Speaker 2>Trump the notion that Ukraine is doing really well. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>then Trump's going to just side with Ukraine because he's

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<v Speaker 2>just transactional and he believes in nothing. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. One of the other things too, to kind

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<v Speaker 2>of think about is we have pressed Europe correctly to

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<v Speaker 2>spend more our NATO partners. The US still only spends

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<v Speaker 2>about two pointy eight percent of GDP on defense, not

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<v Speaker 2>five percent, not what we're asking the Europeans to do.

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<v Speaker 2>And now we have a huge issue coming up politically

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<v Speaker 2>in the United States and in terms of rebuilding a

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<v Speaker 2>military which has been which has you know, significant shortfalls

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<v Speaker 2>right now after the war in Iran. I know they

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<v Speaker 2>want to do a trollion. Plus I don't know if

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<v Speaker 2>there's political support and on either side for this to occur.

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<v Speaker 4>Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>And so, you know, lots of lots of interesting things

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<v Speaker 2>coming up. But this, this, and and of course D

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<v Speaker 2>you know, D and I are going to have heart

416
00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:17.519
<v Speaker 2>palpitations over Trump's turn towards Turkey. The idea of giving

417
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:19.920
<v Speaker 2>them the F thirty five while Turkey has an S

418
00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:22.759
<v Speaker 2>four hundred Russia air defense system I think is preposterous.

419
00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:26.480
<v Speaker 2>But that's because my greekness comes through, and Mick, you're

420
00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:28.960
<v Speaker 2>an honorary Greek as well. I mean, the Greek defense

421
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:32.839
<v Speaker 2>establishment is probably going crazy at this point. That's a

422
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:35.319
<v Speaker 2>lot of reason for their turn to the Israelis, of course,

423
00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:38.640
<v Speaker 2>but but that that issue of the F thirty five

424
00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:40.839
<v Speaker 2>is going to be really significant in this UH, in

425
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:43.279
<v Speaker 2>this summer coming up, we'll see what happens.

426
00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:45.960
<v Speaker 1>What's interesting about the F thirty five though, is like

427
00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:49.160
<v Speaker 1>we're still having supply change issues with it, like there's

428
00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:51.480
<v Speaker 1>supposed to be a new radar coming out for like

429
00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:55.160
<v Speaker 1>the Block forty, and we're being we're getting delivered F

430
00:24:55.240 --> 00:24:58.160
<v Speaker 1>thirty five's that don't have radars in them, and we're

431
00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:01.160
<v Speaker 1>going to wait until they're ready. So adding another country

432
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:05.160
<v Speaker 1>I know they were in it initially Turkey, h doesn't

433
00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:08.160
<v Speaker 1>exactly make a lot of sense, especially like when we

434
00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:11.039
<v Speaker 1>are in need of getting our F thirty five fleet

435
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:16.000
<v Speaker 1>up to snuff. It doesn't make sense, frankly, and also

436
00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:18.720
<v Speaker 1>fuck Turkey, you know, I.

437
00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:21.680
<v Speaker 3>Do think there's a Putin realizes that there is a

438
00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:28.079
<v Speaker 3>split in the Republican party, like like Mark said, but

439
00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:30.920
<v Speaker 3>he has two more years of the Trump administration. Right,

440
00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:34.079
<v Speaker 3>So if you look at Secretary of Rubio, I would

441
00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:36.480
<v Speaker 3>call him more of a traditionalist when it when it

442
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:40.119
<v Speaker 3>comes to the US foreign policy and a lot of

443
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:44.440
<v Speaker 3>the traditional Republicans or Reagan Republicans, I would say, maybe

444
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:50.599
<v Speaker 3>more pro Ukraine then President Biden was. It's a possibility,

445
00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:54.440
<v Speaker 3>and it depends on what comes next, right, So Putin's

446
00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:58.279
<v Speaker 3>got to realize that the chances of it being a

447
00:25:58.759 --> 00:26:04.279
<v Speaker 3>new administration that more pro Ukraine or high. So he's

448
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:07.079
<v Speaker 3>got two years and then if if it's a Democrat,

449
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:10.680
<v Speaker 3>or if it's more of a Republican or Reagan Republican

450
00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:15.680
<v Speaker 3>like I would call uh Rubio, he's going to be

451
00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:18.640
<v Speaker 3>in a bad position, which is great, I think. So

452
00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:20.680
<v Speaker 3>he's got to keep that in mind. And he's got

453
00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:25.880
<v Speaker 3>a refurbished NATO who's focused on him like a laser beam.

454
00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:31.240
<v Speaker 3>So this is not going his way at all. Huge

455
00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:32.599
<v Speaker 3>strategic miscalculation.

456
00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:42.359
<v Speaker 4>It's really so someone mentioned in here that no one's

457
00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:45.000
<v Speaker 4>really sure what the US policy is, and I think

458
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:48.200
<v Speaker 4>that's what's really unnerving the Europeans. I mean, they can,

459
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:51.359
<v Speaker 4>I think generally they can live with a diminished or

460
00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:56.599
<v Speaker 4>a reduced US presence, but they need to know how

461
00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:59.000
<v Speaker 4>much it's reduced and what that means. And there's a

462
00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:02.759
<v Speaker 4>lot of focus on, you know, the withdrawal of a brigade,

463
00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:06.079
<v Speaker 4>which actually isn't that many people. It's five thousand troops, right,

464
00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:09.480
<v Speaker 4>and I'm trying to remember someone can probably look it up,

465
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:19.400
<v Speaker 4>but the NDAA, right, the NDA stipulates that there has

466
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:23.119
<v Speaker 4>to be I think it's a floor of about seventy's

467
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:27.680
<v Speaker 4>seventy or seventy five thousand troops in Europe, and that

468
00:27:28.279 --> 00:27:32.640
<v Speaker 4>five thousand withdrawal takes that level, maybe a thousand guys

469
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:35.559
<v Speaker 4>below that, so it's not a it's not a huge deal,

470
00:27:35.799 --> 00:27:38.400
<v Speaker 4>but legally the United States has to maintain that troop

471
00:27:38.519 --> 00:27:42.079
<v Speaker 4>level unless the more changes, so I think, but I

472
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:44.160
<v Speaker 4>think the real iss I'm not sure it's covered so

473
00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:46.559
<v Speaker 4>much by the media, but it's covered in it.

474
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:50.279
<v Speaker 5>I know, what's it. The Spiegel did a story on this.

475
00:27:51.559 --> 00:27:52.960
<v Speaker 5>It's not so much the troops.

476
00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:58.000
<v Speaker 4>It's the fact that the that the US has told

477
00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:03.960
<v Speaker 4>NATO officials they planned to significantly cut other assets fighters,

478
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:11.799
<v Speaker 4>strategic bombers, destroyers, submarines, tankers, drones, and most importantly missiles

479
00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:16.359
<v Speaker 4>and and so that and not having clarity on what

480
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:20.640
<v Speaker 4>exactly the numbers are I think is causing the problems.

481
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:23.599
<v Speaker 4>I mean, yeah, the good news story idgree one hundred percent.

482
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:26.720
<v Speaker 4>I mean is the fact that NATO has up spending

483
00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:30.599
<v Speaker 4>across the board. So I mean that's one that's one

484
00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:35.319
<v Speaker 4>benefit when advantage perhaps partly of US pressure, but mostly of.

485
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:38.039
<v Speaker 5>Just the threat from Russia that's caused them to do that.

486
00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:40.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean, let me just put one one quick thing

487
00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:42.799
<v Speaker 2>in there. I just just came to mind because I

488
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:45.759
<v Speaker 2>know you focus on this too. I met with the

489
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:50.200
<v Speaker 2>senior European intelligence official recently got to keep it at

490
00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:53.240
<v Speaker 2>that and they said, literally they they every the first

491
00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:56.680
<v Speaker 2>thing that that country's embassy does every morning is check

492
00:28:56.720 --> 00:29:00.519
<v Speaker 2>true social That's how they determine US policy. That insane

493
00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:03.400
<v Speaker 2>and so you know, to me that was just, first

494
00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:05.920
<v Speaker 2>of all, it's embarrassing because that's that's our policy making.

495
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:09.720
<v Speaker 2>But that's the level of uncertainty in Europe. Their first

496
00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:13.440
<v Speaker 2>thing they do track what Trump is fifty five tweets

497
00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:14.519
<v Speaker 2>that you know the night before.

498
00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:14.960
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

499
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:20.799
<v Speaker 3>I do think there's substantial security assistance for Ukraine that's

500
00:29:20.839 --> 00:29:23.559
<v Speaker 3>coming out of the Senate and the House right now,

501
00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:29.799
<v Speaker 3>like close to a billion. So we'll have to see

502
00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:33.240
<v Speaker 3>how it's implemented, right, but I think there's it's a

503
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:36.359
<v Speaker 3>bipartisan issue in the in Congress.

504
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:38.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but is he going to sign it?

505
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:42.519
<v Speaker 3>I think it's at least part of it's in the NBA, Okay,

506
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:44.920
<v Speaker 3>which is where it should be.

507
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:48.279
<v Speaker 2>Because but the Ukrainians, I mean, I think Europe and

508
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:50.519
<v Speaker 2>Ukrainians have to just there's a way to do this,

509
00:29:50.680 --> 00:29:54.519
<v Speaker 2>and you know, you plan for the worst. If this

510
00:29:54.680 --> 00:29:57.519
<v Speaker 2>comes through, it's great. They cannot plan to receive anything

511
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:00.200
<v Speaker 2>from US, period end of story. And if they so,

512
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:00.880
<v Speaker 2>they're stupid.

513
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:03.559
<v Speaker 1>I think they've they've seen the riding on the wall

514
00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:05.880
<v Speaker 1>ever since. Yeah, ever since it happens.

515
00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:08.720
<v Speaker 2>That's great, and that's that would be a significant boon.

516
00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:11.880
<v Speaker 2>But there's no European that you speak with who thinks

517
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:14.160
<v Speaker 2>who actually can plan for the US to come. The

518
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:16.960
<v Speaker 2>cavalry is not coming. If it does, wonderful, you can't

519
00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:17.400
<v Speaker 2>plan for that.

520
00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:21.480
<v Speaker 1>And Andy, if you think this administration is worried about

521
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:25.079
<v Speaker 1>being in contempt of Congress, you're wrong with having like

522
00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:27.839
<v Speaker 1>one thousand less troops in the European theory.

523
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:30.480
<v Speaker 2>No, I mean, I agree with you.

524
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:35.359
<v Speaker 4>My point wasn't that the NDAA is I mean it is.

525
00:30:35.559 --> 00:30:37.960
<v Speaker 4>It is a benchmark. I mean it is, you know,

526
00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:42.160
<v Speaker 4>a significant reduction below that would be problematic. What my

527
00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:45.680
<v Speaker 4>point is that there are other assets that we're pulling

528
00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:49.960
<v Speaker 4>out of Europe that are arguably more important than troop strength,

529
00:30:50.359 --> 00:30:53.240
<v Speaker 4>that are more of a deterrent. And then of course we're.

530
00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:55.279
<v Speaker 1>Pulling them out. Are we pulling them out because of

531
00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:57.799
<v Speaker 1>what's going on in the RAN we need to shift

532
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:01.599
<v Speaker 1>assets there or is it just like an overall like

533
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:03.799
<v Speaker 1>we're looking to tighten our belt because we're asking for

534
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:05.920
<v Speaker 1>eighty billion dollars from Congress. Where are in.

535
00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:10.319
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I mean the perception in Europe.

536
00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:12.519
<v Speaker 4>I think the thing it's fair to say is that

537
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:19.160
<v Speaker 4>it's it's it's retribution for them not stepping up to

538
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:22.640
<v Speaker 4>the plate in the in the war with Iran. I mean,

539
00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:26.359
<v Speaker 4>but there are you know, I mean the positive aspect

540
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:29.240
<v Speaker 4>of this across the board, self defense and also defense

541
00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:32.400
<v Speaker 4>of Ukraine. European nations stepping up to the board, stepping

542
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:35.599
<v Speaker 4>up to the plate. And there's a program and I

543
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:38.759
<v Speaker 4>forget what it's called, but it's been running since last

544
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:46.160
<v Speaker 4>year where the NATO's providing it's like five four to

545
00:31:46.279 --> 00:31:50.839
<v Speaker 4>five billion worth of a billion dollars worth of equipment

546
00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:55.799
<v Speaker 4>to Ukraine, but it's bought by European countries in Canada

547
00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:00.480
<v Speaker 4>from the United States and program.

548
00:32:01.799 --> 00:32:04.000
<v Speaker 3>I do think it was a mistake by NATO countries

549
00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:08.119
<v Speaker 3>to prevent us from using their the bases to carry

550
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:11.039
<v Speaker 3>out the Yaron. And I'm not saying that they should

551
00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:13.960
<v Speaker 3>have to agree with the Iran war, but they cut

552
00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:16.839
<v Speaker 3>our argument in half when they when we say, well,

553
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:19.440
<v Speaker 3>we were there for our own benefit. It gives us

554
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:22.400
<v Speaker 3>a platform to launch and then they say except for

555
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:25.279
<v Speaker 3>when they don't agree with us, and then we can't, right,

556
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:27.559
<v Speaker 3>and then then you're like, okay, well there is that.

557
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:30.559
<v Speaker 3>So I'm not saying that they have to politically or

558
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:34.160
<v Speaker 3>militarily support every thing that we get involved in, like

559
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:38.200
<v Speaker 3>the Iran war. But when they politically prevent us from using,

560
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:43.319
<v Speaker 3>you know, the bases that we're at in Europe, then

561
00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:46.359
<v Speaker 3>you start shooting yourself in the foot when it comes

562
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:50.079
<v Speaker 3>to the people who believe that we are in Europe

563
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:53.200
<v Speaker 3>in their bases primarily for our own benefit, it does

564
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:55.279
<v Speaker 3>benefit them, and it benefits NATO with.

565
00:32:55.599 --> 00:32:58.839
<v Speaker 2>Part there's there's but nick I pushed back just on

566
00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:02.720
<v Speaker 2>that in a way, these are European democracies. Yeah, and

567
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:06.960
<v Speaker 2>you're in the European public was with vehemently ninety ten

568
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:09.839
<v Speaker 2>ninety five to five opposed to the US actions that

569
00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:12.480
<v Speaker 2>are on and so a prime minister in any European

570
00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:15.440
<v Speaker 2>country they want to, you know, maintain power and get

571
00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:18.000
<v Speaker 2>elected again, and so they are responding to their constituency.

572
00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:20.799
<v Speaker 2>And so I hear what you're saying. I think that

573
00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:23.359
<v Speaker 2>the way to have done this would have been to

574
00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:26.200
<v Speaker 2>sell this better. So this is where the Trump administration

575
00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:28.440
<v Speaker 2>deserves a lot of contempt is that they made no

576
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:30.599
<v Speaker 2>effort to sell it to the American people, nor to

577
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:34.079
<v Speaker 2>our European allies. And frankly also the golf or to

578
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:36.599
<v Speaker 2>the golf and so. But but again, if you're if

579
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:38.640
<v Speaker 2>you're the prime minister of the UK or France or

580
00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:41.720
<v Speaker 2>anywhere else, look, their public is against this. So by

581
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:43.519
<v Speaker 2>allowing that's it.

582
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:44.640
<v Speaker 1>I get it. I get it.

583
00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:47.240
<v Speaker 3>But then from a national security perspective, I'd moved to

584
00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:50.680
<v Speaker 3>a country that didn't block me whenever they disagreed with

585
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:55.759
<v Speaker 3>my the decisions that I made. You see what I mean, Yeah,

586
00:33:55.759 --> 00:33:58.519
<v Speaker 3>they could block us, but then why why are we

587
00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:02.000
<v Speaker 3>considering that a major hub for us rejection of power

588
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:05.359
<v Speaker 3>if they block us because they're populations against it. Our

589
00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:06.440
<v Speaker 3>population is against it.

590
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:09.639
<v Speaker 2>I think though that when the country you know, hosts

591
00:34:09.639 --> 00:34:11.480
<v Speaker 2>in the United States base, they do have a say

592
00:34:11.559 --> 00:34:12.960
<v Speaker 2>on what we do with that base.

593
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:15.360
<v Speaker 3>And then I'd go to another country that didn't block

594
00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:16.480
<v Speaker 3>us when we're in the middle.

595
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:16.599
<v Speaker 4>Of a war.

596
00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:19.400
<v Speaker 3>It's from it's looking at it from our perspective, they

597
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:23.039
<v Speaker 3>can do it, and it's like both countries get a choice.

598
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:30.159
<v Speaker 3>They can stop us and we can move. If you

599
00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:33.480
<v Speaker 3>supported this war or not, you specifically, But if you

600
00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:36.159
<v Speaker 3>were a supporter of this war, I think you would agree.

601
00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:38.760
<v Speaker 3>I think you'd say, look, if they're going to block

602
00:34:38.840 --> 00:34:40.880
<v Speaker 3>us from using our base when we need it, we're

603
00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:43.639
<v Speaker 3>at war, whether we agree with them or not, then

604
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:45.880
<v Speaker 3>we need to be in another location. So when you

605
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:49.079
<v Speaker 3>do that and then you arrive because the United States

606
00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:50.760
<v Speaker 3>moved to a more friendly.

607
00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:54.079
<v Speaker 2>Country, I don't know where that country would be.

608
00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:58.400
<v Speaker 3>There's other countries I think in Europe that are would

609
00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:01.199
<v Speaker 3>love to host a major your hub for the United States.

610
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:03.639
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I think.

611
00:35:03.800 --> 00:35:08.320
<v Speaker 4>I mean, whichever way you look at it, Iran, Iran

612
00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:13.719
<v Speaker 4>more exposed, right, something that not even Ukraine had, And

613
00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:18.280
<v Speaker 4>that's that the US and Europe they no longer assume

614
00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:22.440
<v Speaker 4>that fighting the same fights, right, So I mean, from

615
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:28.199
<v Speaker 4>from the US government's perspective, Europeans wouldn't escort tankers through Homouse.

616
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:32.199
<v Speaker 4>From their perspective, it's because it was for a war

617
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:38.599
<v Speaker 4>they weren't consulted on. And from US government's perspective, Trump's perspective,

618
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:42.280
<v Speaker 4>he won't guarantee troops for a continent Europe that he

619
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:47.360
<v Speaker 4>thinks is a free rider. So I mean, you know,

620
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:51.480
<v Speaker 4>if you're in Magaland, or whether you're on the side

621
00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:55.000
<v Speaker 4>of the Europeans. The arguments seem internally rational, and.

622
00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:56.519
<v Speaker 2>I guess, I guess the ghost in the notion we

623
00:35:56.559 --> 00:35:58.960
<v Speaker 2>should have sold this better. There should have been better

624
00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:01.960
<v Speaker 2>consultation with al and that's the way. And because you

625
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:04.000
<v Speaker 2>can't make a case for this, and and and and

626
00:36:04.280 --> 00:36:06.639
<v Speaker 2>because the European prime ministers and presidents will have to

627
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:09.360
<v Speaker 2>do so to their publics. But when it's just you know,

628
00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:11.800
<v Speaker 2>just thrown upon them, then they you know, that's when

629
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:14.280
<v Speaker 2>there's the there's the backlash. So I certainly get that.

630
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:15.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, but you look at I mean, there's all

631
00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:17.760
<v Speaker 2>these you know, there's stories came out of the last

632
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:20.400
<v Speaker 2>week or two or two about the Saudis and how

633
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:23.639
<v Speaker 2>the Saudis UH did not want any part of renewed

634
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:27.079
<v Speaker 2>strikes against Iran again. And you do see and I

635
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:30.320
<v Speaker 2>think and of you you did raise it. Uh. There

636
00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:33.000
<v Speaker 2>is a huge backlash in the Gulf. And you're going

637
00:36:33.039 --> 00:36:34.960
<v Speaker 2>to see a lot of golf countries, maybe not the UAE,

638
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:37.639
<v Speaker 2>but even maybe them, but but but others cutting side

639
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:41.320
<v Speaker 2>deals with the your onions now and so you know there,

640
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:44.199
<v Speaker 2>So we talked about the US bases. There US bases

641
00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:47.199
<v Speaker 2>in the Middle East are certainly exposed right now. Uh,

642
00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:50.840
<v Speaker 2>in terms at first they're you know, the the degree

643
00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:54.320
<v Speaker 2>in which we can protect them, but also in terms

644
00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:56.920
<v Speaker 2>of countries not wanting any further strikes. I mean the

645
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Saudis said, no, is that right? Yeah, Jonathan, maybe you

646
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:05.400
<v Speaker 2>want to comment on that. Sorry, sorry, make sorry, No,

647
00:37:05.480 --> 00:37:05.760
<v Speaker 2>I was just.

648
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:08.280
<v Speaker 3>Going to agree with you on the on the we

649
00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:11.039
<v Speaker 3>should have done a way better jump sell on the war,

650
00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:14.599
<v Speaker 3>not only to Europe but to the United States population,

651
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:19.199
<v Speaker 3>and we should probably stop beating up on our longest

652
00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:22.559
<v Speaker 3>standing allies. If you look at the National Defense strategy,

653
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:26.280
<v Speaker 3>for some reason, it goes after Europe, right, you know,

654
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:29.239
<v Speaker 3>in a way that it never has and and then

655
00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:34.320
<v Speaker 3>leaves countries like Russia off the criticism list. There's a

656
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:36.840
<v Speaker 3>lot of things that we should do better, but that's

657
00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:41.599
<v Speaker 3>somebody who's been in the Pentagon. It's it's also our

658
00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:45.079
<v Speaker 3>ability to project power once we're given an order, right,

659
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:47.679
<v Speaker 3>Whether we don't need to agree with the that's the

660
00:37:48.039 --> 00:37:50.480
<v Speaker 3>that's my point. So we have to have platforms that

661
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:52.679
<v Speaker 3>we can use. They can't just be at the whim

662
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:55.039
<v Speaker 3>of well, we don't like the war, so you can't

663
00:37:55.320 --> 00:37:59.440
<v Speaker 3>use it, because then From a military perspective, you've just

664
00:37:59.480 --> 00:38:02.199
<v Speaker 3>taken out that capability because your job is to carry

665
00:38:02.199 --> 00:38:05.760
<v Speaker 3>out oars. It's not to debate the efficacy of the policy.

666
00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:09.679
<v Speaker 6>We need access basing and overflight. That's the keyn like

667
00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:11.880
<v Speaker 6>from the Pentagon perspective, that's what we need. That's those

668
00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:15.079
<v Speaker 6>security cooperation is supposed to provide us those things, especially

669
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:17.039
<v Speaker 6>in the Gulf. That's why we have AFCENT Air Force

670
00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:19.840
<v Speaker 6>Central Commanding Qatar, when we have fifth Fleet in Bahrain.

671
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:22.840
<v Speaker 6>This is access basing and overflight. And if we want

672
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:24.719
<v Speaker 6>to do strikes in Iran, we have to be able

673
00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:27.719
<v Speaker 6>to fly over those partner nations countries with their permission.

674
00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:30.039
<v Speaker 6>Sure we could do it without the permission, but that

675
00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:32.559
<v Speaker 6>would be destructive to that relationship. So we need to

676
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:34.639
<v Speaker 6>have those deep ties there. And like you were mentioning

677
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:37.719
<v Speaker 6>mark with Saudi Arabia, before the war started, Saudi Arabia

678
00:38:37.880 --> 00:38:43.199
<v Speaker 6>was inching closer toward a warming of relations between Iran

679
00:38:43.239 --> 00:38:46.000
<v Speaker 6>and Saudi Arabia. They had sent, you know, their highest

680
00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:48.679
<v Speaker 6>level delegation in years. If you remember back a few

681
00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:50.960
<v Speaker 6>years ago, nim Or Nimmer was executed, which is a

682
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:53.719
<v Speaker 6>Shia leader in Saudi Arabia. Was beheaded along with a

683
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:56.840
<v Speaker 6>bunch of other folks that caused Iran to cut relations

684
00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:58.960
<v Speaker 6>with Saudi Arabia. So like this was getting repaired very

685
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:02.639
<v Speaker 6>slowly and was getting back toward what the Saudi government wanted,

686
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:05.760
<v Speaker 6>which was a more pragmatic approach to Gulf relations with Iran.

687
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:09.239
<v Speaker 6>And of course they're also secretly negotiating with Israel as

688
00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:12.280
<v Speaker 6>well for a future recognition of Israel. So Saudi Arabia

689
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:13.920
<v Speaker 6>is trying to you know, grow up in the region

690
00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:17.039
<v Speaker 6>with MBS in particular at the Helm and this kind

691
00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:20.719
<v Speaker 6>of muddy, that delicate negotiation going on behind the scenes

692
00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:23.960
<v Speaker 6>between Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Israel, and now Saudi Arabia

693
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:25.559
<v Speaker 6>has to wait for that to settle before they can

694
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:28.360
<v Speaker 6>get back there again because they're trying to modernize. They're

695
00:39:28.360 --> 00:39:30.199
<v Speaker 6>trying to change the state from what it was, you know,

696
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:34.480
<v Speaker 6>in the previous monarchy, and now that's on hold, which

697
00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:37.000
<v Speaker 6>their government does not want. The same thing with the Emirates.

698
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:38.719
<v Speaker 6>The Emirates are trying to do things as well to

699
00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:40.599
<v Speaker 6>change not just be an oil or you know, an

700
00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:43.239
<v Speaker 6>oil and gas dependent country for their economy, and that

701
00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:44.719
<v Speaker 6>has also been destroy I feel like what's going on

702
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:48.519
<v Speaker 6>with Dubia's tourism industry. It's wrecked, and it's about risk

703
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:50.239
<v Speaker 6>and do people want to go there and spend their

704
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:53.079
<v Speaker 6>money there? Some will, but not the ones, not everybody

705
00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:54.760
<v Speaker 6>that was before. It's going to take a very long

706
00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:58.079
<v Speaker 6>time to build that trust again. And as you mentioned,

707
00:39:58.079 --> 00:39:59.760
<v Speaker 6>if we could sell this war in a better way

708
00:39:59.800 --> 00:40:02.440
<v Speaker 6>from the very beginning, we wouldn't have this discussion now

709
00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:05.239
<v Speaker 6>because those countries would have participated. Just like nineteen ninety

710
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:08.000
<v Speaker 6>one when the US went to the Middle East and

711
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:11.440
<v Speaker 6>asked Saudi Arabia and even Syria to join forces with

712
00:40:11.480 --> 00:40:14.559
<v Speaker 6>the United States against Saddam Hussein, and the Syrians sent

713
00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:17.519
<v Speaker 6>forces to fight against Saddam Hussein to kick them out Kuwait.

714
00:40:18.320 --> 00:40:22.239
<v Speaker 2>That was because we sold war else then in policy making, right, so.

715
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:24.119
<v Speaker 6>We sold it to them because you couldn't just show

716
00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:26.440
<v Speaker 6>up to Damascus and be like, hey, come with us. Instead,

717
00:40:26.440 --> 00:40:27.960
<v Speaker 6>you had to have made a case that it's in

718
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:30.039
<v Speaker 6>your interest, even though we're not great friends, it's in

719
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:32.639
<v Speaker 6>your interest to come to this conflict with us.

720
00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:37.360
<v Speaker 1>And in that case Iraq and Iraq invaded a sovereign country.

721
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:40.679
<v Speaker 2>But making your peverst position, your previous position. You know,

722
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:43.559
<v Speaker 2>conceivably you would have been involved in the policy making

723
00:40:43.639 --> 00:40:45.559
<v Speaker 2>process saying, Okay, there's a run up to the war

724
00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:47.360
<v Speaker 2>in Iran, we have to do X, Y and Z

725
00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:50.039
<v Speaker 2>to get our allies on board. I'm going to take

726
00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:52.320
<v Speaker 2>a trip. It's the das D and I'm going to

727
00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:54.079
<v Speaker 2>do it. I'm going to do multiple stops in the region.

728
00:40:54.079 --> 00:40:55.320
<v Speaker 2>We're going to say that we're going to prep them

729
00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:57.199
<v Speaker 2>for this. We're going they're going to be fully involved

730
00:40:57.199 --> 00:41:01.639
<v Speaker 2>in this instead of just kind of, you know, kind

731
00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:02.760
<v Speaker 2>of we were winging it.

732
00:41:04.119 --> 00:41:07.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I agree, and I don't necessarily hold it against

733
00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:09.599
<v Speaker 3>the politician who has to respond to their public I'm

734
00:41:09.639 --> 00:41:13.199
<v Speaker 3>not even criticizing the decision from their point, but from

735
00:41:13.239 --> 00:41:15.679
<v Speaker 3>our point, from the Pentagon's point, then we have to

736
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:19.360
<v Speaker 3>adjust because it is access basing an overflight, and if

737
00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:21.880
<v Speaker 3>we can't actually carry out an order that we're given

738
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:23.880
<v Speaker 3>because we put all our assets in a country they

739
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:27.079
<v Speaker 3>won't let them use this, then that's that's unacceptable. Doesn't

740
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:29.000
<v Speaker 3>You can just take off whether you agree with the

741
00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:32.480
<v Speaker 3>war or not, But from the US military's ability to

742
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:35.360
<v Speaker 3>carry out orders, they have to. So yeah, we should

743
00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:39.360
<v Speaker 3>have definitely sold it much better and.

744
00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:41.119
<v Speaker 2>That would have been a policy process. There would have

745
00:41:41.119 --> 00:41:43.559
<v Speaker 2>been NSC meetings, and then you know, the action items

746
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:46.119
<v Speaker 2>coming from this would be the you know, the civilians

747
00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:48.199
<v Speaker 2>the side of the Pentagon, and the State Department would

748
00:41:48.199 --> 00:41:51.360
<v Speaker 2>start prepping our allies months in advance for this. Oh yeah, yeah,

749
00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:52.400
<v Speaker 2>and you know there's a way to.

750
00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:54.440
<v Speaker 3>Do this with the embassy and everything.

751
00:41:54.800 --> 00:42:01.119
<v Speaker 1>Yep. I don't think actually selling this war would have worked,

752
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:03.760
<v Speaker 1>to be frank, I don't think the United States would

753
00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:05.400
<v Speaker 1>be Are the people of the United States to be

754
00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:08.360
<v Speaker 1>interested in that? Maybe they could have just broadcast Bbe's

755
00:42:08.599 --> 00:42:11.440
<v Speaker 1>power point in the situation room a month before we

756
00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:12.679
<v Speaker 1>struck our in maybe that.

757
00:42:12.679 --> 00:42:14.920
<v Speaker 6>I think there's always a way, because we invaded Iraq

758
00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:17.280
<v Speaker 6>in two thousand and three on a completely false pretense

759
00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:20.239
<v Speaker 6>that we sold very well and we were able to

760
00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:22.559
<v Speaker 6>get people to join us, So I mean it's possible.

761
00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:24.960
<v Speaker 6>So hey, if we do it, maybe they'll come.

762
00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:28.039
<v Speaker 1>I think the information environment is completely different now.

763
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:32.719
<v Speaker 4>I think it's a different world than the fevered atmosphere

764
00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:35.480
<v Speaker 4>of post nine eleven. I mean, yes, it was, it

765
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:37.920
<v Speaker 4>was eighteen months, but it was a different country, right,

766
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:44.039
<v Speaker 4>and everyone was still nine eleven focused. Everyone suddenly on

767
00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:47.280
<v Speaker 4>foreign policy. That focus has gone, that interest has gone.

768
00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:50.639
<v Speaker 2>Mick, Mick, do you remember we were watching in the

769
00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:53.920
<v Speaker 2>team house up in the Northern Rock Colin Palace speech

770
00:42:54.679 --> 00:42:56.440
<v Speaker 2>and we're all like, We're all like, what the hell

771
00:42:56.519 --> 00:42:57.280
<v Speaker 2>is he talking about?

772
00:42:57.400 --> 00:42:59.719
<v Speaker 3>We must not be read into this line of you know,

773
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:02.880
<v Speaker 3>it was love coming out of the two places we

774
00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:03.440
<v Speaker 3>were at.

775
00:43:03.800 --> 00:43:07.360
<v Speaker 1>Wild talking about if you guys are in northern Iraq

776
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:09.280
<v Speaker 1>and he's shaking the anthrax file thing.

777
00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:11.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, team leader. He used to get called by the

778
00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:12.800
<v Speaker 3>White House all the time.

779
00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:15.199
<v Speaker 2>But it was a quick deviation because we did have

780
00:43:15.320 --> 00:43:16.480
<v Speaker 2>actually I don't know if we had, I think the

781
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:19.559
<v Speaker 2>other the other guys did. We could get Turkish porn.

782
00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:22.199
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I just got it like this, So we

783
00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:24.719
<v Speaker 2>had to just a little diversion from Turkish porn to

784
00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:25.960
<v Speaker 2>watch Colin Palace speech.

785
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:31.559
<v Speaker 4>I don't even that's an image I just can't shake loose.

786
00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:35.519
<v Speaker 4>We didn't watch Turkish and porn two words that don't

787
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:38.000
<v Speaker 4>belong together a good old days.

788
00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:40.119
<v Speaker 3>But we had a lot of as Yeah. But yeah,

789
00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:42.280
<v Speaker 3>I remember when our team later I don't know if

790
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:44.079
<v Speaker 3>we name him, but used to get called by the

791
00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:46.440
<v Speaker 3>White House on these topics. Yeah, and he used to

792
00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:50.760
<v Speaker 3>stand there at attention, which you should.

793
00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:54.719
<v Speaker 2>I but but there was definitely a lot of what

794
00:43:54.840 --> 00:43:55.840
<v Speaker 2>the healthy talking got.

795
00:43:57.840 --> 00:43:58.719
<v Speaker 3>Is there another c I A.

796
00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:01.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, got some good ship going on, not us.

797
00:44:02.199 --> 00:44:05.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's fucking crazy, guys.

798
00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:08.360
<v Speaker 3>That's why I well, when it fell, they took us

799
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:10.559
<v Speaker 3>to a lot of places where they said the chemical

800
00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:13.559
<v Speaker 3>weapons were. There was signs all over the place, and

801
00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:17.039
<v Speaker 3>there was nothing there. So I think, you know, not

802
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:20.800
<v Speaker 3>to re litigate this, but you know, from our perspective,

803
00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:24.039
<v Speaker 3>we were collecting information that from people who should know,

804
00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:26.519
<v Speaker 3>who were telling us no, it's right there.

805
00:44:26.920 --> 00:44:28.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, and it wasn't.

806
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:32.840
<v Speaker 3>So it's more complicated than the US, you know, was deceptive.

807
00:44:33.360 --> 00:44:35.280
<v Speaker 3>It's it truly is more complicated.

808
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:35.519
<v Speaker 1>I don't.

809
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:39.199
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we got it wrong, but it wasn't.

810
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:43.679
<v Speaker 2>The Bush administration knew that Rock didn't have WMD. It wasn't.

811
00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:46.000
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't a lie. We just got the intelligence thing

812
00:44:46.119 --> 00:44:46.960
<v Speaker 2>completely wrong.

813
00:44:47.440 --> 00:44:48.559
<v Speaker 3>Yes, that's what I'm getting.

814
00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:51.199
<v Speaker 2>But there was there was no manipulating, you know, it's

815
00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:54.679
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it was just it was just wrong. Now,

816
00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:56.599
<v Speaker 2>some of the some of the reporting streams were bullshit,

817
00:44:56.679 --> 00:44:58.079
<v Speaker 2>and we should have been done better on that. The

818
00:44:58.119 --> 00:45:01.639
<v Speaker 2>analyst maybe I'm putting too much on on them. But yeah,

819
00:45:01.679 --> 00:45:03.760
<v Speaker 2>this wasn't like Wolf of Wits and Bush were like,

820
00:45:03.880 --> 00:45:07.000
<v Speaker 2>let's let's deceive the American people. They actually thought very

821
00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:10.760
<v Speaker 2>much that when we were there, we just didn't.

822
00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:16.199
<v Speaker 1>But people were telling us that, guys, are we living

823
00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:19.639
<v Speaker 1>in the same fucking world right now? But like they

824
00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:22.760
<v Speaker 1>pushed it from the minute almost a minute nine to

825
00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:24.679
<v Speaker 1>eleven happened that we were going into Iraq, and they

826
00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:28.199
<v Speaker 1>basically molded the CIA to tell them what they wanted

827
00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:31.800
<v Speaker 1>to hear. You had analysts that were, you know, fighting

828
00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:36.480
<v Speaker 1>up against the what were the the tubes, the circular

829
00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:39.320
<v Speaker 1>tubes thing, what do you call it doesn't matter, the

830
00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:44.199
<v Speaker 1>stuff that actually enriches uranium, like interfusions. I don't know

831
00:45:44.199 --> 00:45:46.360
<v Speaker 1>how Yes, thank you, John. I don't know how you

832
00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:48.880
<v Speaker 1>can really say with a straight face that the Bush

833
00:45:48.920 --> 00:45:53.760
<v Speaker 1>administration didn't deceive the American people.

834
00:45:53.840 --> 00:45:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Think you can. Every every Iraqi senior regime official I

835
00:45:56.920 --> 00:45:58.480
<v Speaker 2>talked to thought they had w m D.

836
00:45:58.840 --> 00:46:01.559
<v Speaker 3>That's what I'm saying, that's where we collect information from.

837
00:46:01.639 --> 00:46:01.960
<v Speaker 5>We didn't.

838
00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:02.320
<v Speaker 1>We didn't.

839
00:46:02.360 --> 00:46:03.880
<v Speaker 3>We didn't have Saddam on the books.

840
00:46:05.079 --> 00:46:07.440
<v Speaker 2>Some really high level folks, and they thought they had it,

841
00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:10.559
<v Speaker 2>and that's it's an incredible deception campaign by Saddam himself.

842
00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:13.960
<v Speaker 2>But this is a separate issue. Yeah, and the CEE

843
00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:16.199
<v Speaker 2>I failed in this, Like analytically we failed. You know,

844
00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:18.280
<v Speaker 2>there were certain streams that you put too much weight on,

845
00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:20.880
<v Speaker 2>and there's I mean, but it's a it's a it's

846
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:22.119
<v Speaker 2>a little more complicated story.

847
00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:24.239
<v Speaker 1>Frankly, I don't want to give enough. I don't want

848
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:26.199
<v Speaker 1>to give that much guff the CIA, because you guys

849
00:46:26.239 --> 00:46:27.760
<v Speaker 1>are doing your job and you're supposed to get the

850
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:30.480
<v Speaker 1>information I try to. I guess I'm giving more guff

851
00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:33.679
<v Speaker 1>to the administration because they cherry picked fucking evidence and

852
00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:36.639
<v Speaker 1>intel that wasn't confirmed and put it in a state

853
00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:41.320
<v Speaker 1>union speech about yellow cake in Niger, like what you

854
00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:44.320
<v Speaker 1>know they received the fucking American people. Let's let's just

855
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:47.079
<v Speaker 1>make sure that's that's I'm putting that on record at least.

856
00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:49.400
<v Speaker 5>Noted.

857
00:46:51.559 --> 00:46:52.239
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Mick.

858
00:46:53.239 --> 00:46:58.440
<v Speaker 4>It's an interesting topic though, I mean, the because there's

859
00:46:58.480 --> 00:47:02.000
<v Speaker 4>a parallel now right, I mean, if you have the

860
00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:05.320
<v Speaker 4>most anodyne approach to this, it's if you have a

861
00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:09.119
<v Speaker 4>political stance, and the political stance was he you know,

862
00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:13.800
<v Speaker 4>Saddam's a bad guy. He's disruptive to the region and

863
00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:17.320
<v Speaker 4>he needs to go all right, not necessarily in the

864
00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:21.840
<v Speaker 4>farious objective, right, And then you have that, and then

865
00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:26.880
<v Speaker 4>there's a dual bias. Right, you are asking the questions

866
00:47:26.960 --> 00:47:32.239
<v Speaker 4>that confirm that bias from your intelligence agency and intelligence community,

867
00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:35.119
<v Speaker 4>and they they're finding that information because it is there,

868
00:47:35.239 --> 00:47:37.559
<v Speaker 4>but they're focusing the collection assets on that.

869
00:47:38.199 --> 00:47:39.280
<v Speaker 2>So there's that.

870
00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:42.559
<v Speaker 4>And then the feedback loop is such that as the

871
00:47:42.639 --> 00:47:46.440
<v Speaker 4>information comes forward, it's also given that political filter because

872
00:47:46.519 --> 00:47:52.199
<v Speaker 4>it fits you know, it fits their agenda without there

873
00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:56.320
<v Speaker 4>being conscious deception in that process. And it's kind of

874
00:47:56.360 --> 00:48:00.119
<v Speaker 4>the same thing that led to seven October. Right, you

875
00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:03.960
<v Speaker 4>see a lot of conspiracy theories. Now, oh, hey Netnya,

876
00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:07.000
<v Speaker 4>who sacrificed the border communities, they knew it was coming,

877
00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:09.639
<v Speaker 4>they wanted it to happen. I don't for a moment

878
00:48:09.719 --> 00:48:14.840
<v Speaker 4>believe that's true. But that same bias was taking place. Hey,

879
00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:18.440
<v Speaker 4>we don't we want Hamas to remain in place because

880
00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:22.440
<v Speaker 4>the alternative is the Palestinian authority. If it's Palestinian authority,

881
00:48:22.519 --> 00:48:24.159
<v Speaker 4>then now we've got to start talking about a two

882
00:48:24.239 --> 00:48:29.760
<v Speaker 4>state solution. Harmas psycho But on the other hand, they're

883
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:34.719
<v Speaker 4>contained right they are. They're firmly contained. That contained both

884
00:48:34.840 --> 00:48:36.880
<v Speaker 4>militarily and that contained because we're.

885
00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:38.199
<v Speaker 5>Giving them economic scentives.

886
00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:43.039
<v Speaker 4>Right, That was the political stance, and the military, as

887
00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:46.599
<v Speaker 4>shouldn't bet is the well, either told to stand down

888
00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:50.159
<v Speaker 4>on collection or the collection they produced was filtered to

889
00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:54.719
<v Speaker 4>confirm that bias. Without anyone saying, Hey, this attack's going

890
00:48:54.800 --> 00:48:56.880
<v Speaker 4>to happen, but let's just shut the fuck up and

891
00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:57.559
<v Speaker 4>let it happen.

892
00:48:57.800 --> 00:48:59.000
<v Speaker 5>You know, I wouldn't.

893
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:02.840
<v Speaker 4>I don't believe for a moment anyone said that. But

894
00:49:03.519 --> 00:49:06.280
<v Speaker 4>the information coming up, if it had been filtered correctly,

895
00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:08.880
<v Speaker 4>was clearly indicating exactly what.

896
00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:12.480
<v Speaker 5>Was going to happen, right for eighteen months private the attack.

897
00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:17.039
<v Speaker 6>It's the same with any intelligence failure, even the nine

898
00:49:17.079 --> 00:49:19.800
<v Speaker 6>to eleven situation. I mean, when I was training to

899
00:49:19.800 --> 00:49:21.119
<v Speaker 6>be a kind of intelligence station, that was one of

900
00:49:21.159 --> 00:49:22.920
<v Speaker 6>the cases we studied, was like the nineteen ninety three

901
00:49:23.079 --> 00:49:25.760
<v Speaker 6>bombing of World Trade Center and then from that leading

902
00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:28.239
<v Speaker 6>up to nine to eleven, and just the volume of

903
00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:30.960
<v Speaker 6>intelligence that did exist that did indicate like this was

904
00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:34.239
<v Speaker 6>being planned. It was the resources of being accumulated, people

905
00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:36.599
<v Speaker 6>were being positioned, That all existed, but it was just

906
00:49:36.679 --> 00:49:39.079
<v Speaker 6>the way that we collected it in that moment didn't

907
00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:41.159
<v Speaker 6>work in the way that it should have worked, and

908
00:49:41.239 --> 00:49:42.960
<v Speaker 6>it led to an intelligence failure. And I think a

909
00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:44.800
<v Speaker 6>lot of intelligence failures are like that, where we look

910
00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:46.280
<v Speaker 6>back and we're like, oh, there was a that's a

911
00:49:46.360 --> 00:49:48.840
<v Speaker 6>data point right there, but in the moment, you just

912
00:49:49.039 --> 00:49:50.840
<v Speaker 6>you can't see it like that because you don't you

913
00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:53.679
<v Speaker 6>can't predict every possible outcome and direction that the intelligence

914
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:54.239
<v Speaker 6>is going to lead.

915
00:49:54.239 --> 00:49:59.199
<v Speaker 4>You. Yeah, that that's a different that's I mean, absolutely correct,

916
00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:01.559
<v Speaker 4>that's a different coolest tho. And that's one of the

917
00:50:01.599 --> 00:50:08.679
<v Speaker 4>big challenges, right, is that indications in trying to trying

918
00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:11.239
<v Speaker 4>to and you guys, no far out of eno to pose,

919
00:50:11.719 --> 00:50:16.880
<v Speaker 4>but interpreting indications right that afterwards seem unambiguous, but at

920
00:50:16.920 --> 00:50:19.719
<v Speaker 4>the time where anything but unambiguous.

921
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:21.159
<v Speaker 5>How's that for a double negative?

922
00:50:21.320 --> 00:50:23.559
<v Speaker 6>It's true, when you get these walking sources to the embassy,

923
00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:25.559
<v Speaker 6>for example, you're gonna get a thousand of these guys

924
00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:27.679
<v Speaker 6>saying wild things. One of them might be telling you

925
00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:29.960
<v Speaker 6>something totally true, but it sounds also wild, just like

926
00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:32.559
<v Speaker 6>the other nine hundred ninety nine wild reports, and it's

927
00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:34.800
<v Speaker 6>very difficult to figure out, like which of these was

928
00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:38.760
<v Speaker 6>actually credible, especially for walkin that you have no previous vetting,

929
00:50:38.840 --> 00:50:40.840
<v Speaker 6>no previous knowledge of this person. What they what are

930
00:50:40.840 --> 00:50:42.760
<v Speaker 6>they there for? Are they a double? Are they a dangle?

931
00:50:43.639 --> 00:50:45.320
<v Speaker 6>And it's so hard to figure that out, especially if

932
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:47.039
<v Speaker 6>it's like a short term like hey, this is going

933
00:50:47.079 --> 00:50:49.159
<v Speaker 6>to happen in forty eight hours kind of thing. It's

934
00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:51.760
<v Speaker 6>it's very, very difficult to actually figure out the credibility

935
00:50:51.760 --> 00:50:52.360
<v Speaker 6>of that individual.

936
00:50:52.639 --> 00:50:54.519
<v Speaker 1>In the moment, guys want to touch on the NATO

937
00:50:54.719 --> 00:50:57.400
<v Speaker 1>summit that's coming up a little bit, like what to expect.

938
00:50:57.400 --> 00:51:01.079
<v Speaker 1>I always spoke about it a little bit, but what

939
00:51:01.159 --> 00:51:02.800
<v Speaker 1>do you guys expect to be coming out of.

940
00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:06.800
<v Speaker 3>This, Well, there's going to be a lot to talk about.

941
00:51:06.840 --> 00:51:09.559
<v Speaker 3>What we just talked about. Is the US going to

942
00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:14.159
<v Speaker 3>redeployed forces from certain countries either back home or to

943
00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:18.119
<v Speaker 3>other countries that they're more favorable to at least at

944
00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:22.280
<v Speaker 3>the time. If anything, the US should be plus enough

945
00:51:22.840 --> 00:51:26.559
<v Speaker 3>our capacity in Europe to send a strong message to Putin.

946
00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:30.840
<v Speaker 3>But also because the world's an unstable place. Part of

947
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:34.480
<v Speaker 3>what we caused, and I don't mean that necessarily in

948
00:51:34.519 --> 00:51:36.920
<v Speaker 3>a negative thing, but we're at war and Iran and

949
00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:40.239
<v Speaker 3>right now. I mean, we haven't touched on Iran too

950
00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:43.559
<v Speaker 3>much on this one, but there's a lot of people

951
00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:47.400
<v Speaker 3>who believe this MoU is simply a means to replenish

952
00:51:47.519 --> 00:51:51.960
<v Speaker 3>the global energy supply to get past the mid term

953
00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:54.679
<v Speaker 3>elections and then it's kicking back. And I know a

954
00:51:54.719 --> 00:51:57.239
<v Speaker 3>lot of friends who hope that's actually the case, because

955
00:51:57.239 --> 00:51:59.320
<v Speaker 3>they really don't like the MoU, and I think they

956
00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:02.960
<v Speaker 3>have good reason to believe to not like it. So

957
00:52:03.559 --> 00:52:07.039
<v Speaker 3>this isn't over, is my point, right. I wish it

958
00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:09.360
<v Speaker 3>was in the sense that Iran would agree with a

959
00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:14.519
<v Speaker 3>new nuclear agreement and then that's that. But it doesn't

960
00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:16.280
<v Speaker 3>look like they're coming anywhere close to that, and it

961
00:52:16.320 --> 00:52:19.599
<v Speaker 3>doesn't look like they're coming anywhere close to relinquishing control

962
00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:23.079
<v Speaker 3>of the straight upromos. I think we're at about lower

963
00:52:23.119 --> 00:52:26.320
<v Speaker 3>than sixty ships a day, it's normally around one hundred

964
00:52:26.360 --> 00:52:30.360
<v Speaker 3>and twenty. And Iran is making a lot of money

965
00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:35.480
<v Speaker 3>selling its energy. So I'm attaching the two because we

966
00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:38.559
<v Speaker 3>need to if you look at our conversation, we need

967
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:41.880
<v Speaker 3>to send a clear message to Russia and we can

968
00:52:41.960 --> 00:52:45.320
<v Speaker 3>do that by presence in Europe and NATO. We need

969
00:52:45.400 --> 00:52:47.599
<v Speaker 3>to be prepared for this thing to kick back off

970
00:52:48.440 --> 00:52:51.920
<v Speaker 3>in Iran. Obviously we hope it doesn't, but I don't

971
00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:55.000
<v Speaker 3>see an indication that this is headed toward a resolution

972
00:52:55.119 --> 00:52:56.639
<v Speaker 3>that's acceptable to the United States.

973
00:52:57.719 --> 00:53:01.400
<v Speaker 2>One thing that I heard in Jonathan and the Curious

974
00:53:01.400 --> 00:53:03.760
<v Speaker 2>if you agree with this, is that there's more than

975
00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:06.199
<v Speaker 2>likely for the rest there is a possibility for the

976
00:53:06.320 --> 00:53:08.920
<v Speaker 2>rest of the Trump administration that this is the status

977
00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:12.760
<v Speaker 2>quo right now and it's just you know, plus sixty

978
00:53:12.800 --> 00:53:15.039
<v Speaker 2>plus sixty plus sixty whatever, just kicking the can down

979
00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:17.559
<v Speaker 2>the road. And so there's the argument that Okay, after

980
00:53:17.599 --> 00:53:21.360
<v Speaker 2>the mid terms the Republicans take a shellaking, Trump won't

981
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:23.280
<v Speaker 2>give a shit anymore, and so he'll he'll go at

982
00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:25.039
<v Speaker 2>it again. I'm not sure that's actually true.

983
00:53:26.400 --> 00:53:26.480
<v Speaker 4>Uh.

984
00:53:26.920 --> 00:53:29.199
<v Speaker 2>It could also be that it's just going to stay

985
00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:34.079
<v Speaker 2>this way, which is enormously unstable, and in some ways

986
00:53:34.159 --> 00:53:36.280
<v Speaker 2>that is because I think Trump has lost interest in

987
00:53:36.320 --> 00:53:40.119
<v Speaker 2>this totally. One other quick point on the NATO summit,

988
00:53:40.280 --> 00:53:43.840
<v Speaker 2>I think d that ultimately Europe is holding its breath

989
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:45.840
<v Speaker 2>and if you know, it's just it's just, you know,

990
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:47.920
<v Speaker 2>how bad can this be? Is Trump going to make

991
00:53:48.519 --> 00:53:50.719
<v Speaker 2>you know? It is going to be so disruptive let's

992
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:52.519
<v Speaker 2>just you know, it's a it's holding your breath to

993
00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:55.039
<v Speaker 2>get get this, get past this. You know, he there

994
00:53:55.159 --> 00:53:57.400
<v Speaker 2>was not even an expectation that he would attend, but

995
00:53:57.519 --> 00:53:59.920
<v Speaker 2>of course Airdwan he's doing it for his fellow auto

996
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:03.159
<v Speaker 2>pratic buddy. But it's just it's holding your breath and

997
00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:05.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, good God, what's going to happen? How bad

998
00:54:05.719 --> 00:54:07.599
<v Speaker 2>can it be? Is there anything embarrassing coming out of this?

999
00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:10.039
<v Speaker 2>Because at the end of the day, I do think that,

1000
00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:12.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, when I was just in Sweden, I saw

1001
00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:14.320
<v Speaker 2>the head of Swedish military. I mean, there's a notion

1002
00:54:14.440 --> 00:54:18.000
<v Speaker 2>that again it's the idea hope America helps. Can't count

1003
00:54:18.039 --> 00:54:21.199
<v Speaker 2>on them. You know, we're going at it as a

1004
00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:26.599
<v Speaker 2>as a as europe only, so you know, we'll kind

1005
00:54:26.599 --> 00:54:28.639
<v Speaker 2>of see where that goes. I mean, even as an American,

1006
00:54:28.760 --> 00:54:32.239
<v Speaker 2>as a patriot like these, when Trump travels overseas, you

1007
00:54:32.320 --> 00:54:33.960
<v Speaker 2>have no idea what's going to happen. You just you

1008
00:54:34.119 --> 00:54:35.840
<v Speaker 2>just pray that it's not going to be embarrassing to us.

1009
00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:38.000
<v Speaker 2>At least that's my view. And if something good happens,

1010
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:42.400
<v Speaker 2>that's just unusual. But that's what you hope for.

1011
00:54:44.599 --> 00:54:46.400
<v Speaker 6>And also the enemy gets a vote. And that's the

1012
00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:48.519
<v Speaker 6>thing with Iran right now and with Russia that we

1013
00:54:48.559 --> 00:54:49.920
<v Speaker 6>could sit here and say, you know, in the next

1014
00:54:49.960 --> 00:54:52.320
<v Speaker 6>six to eighteen months, we can do all these things

1015
00:54:52.400 --> 00:54:55.880
<v Speaker 6>to prevent or do something to either of these actors.

1016
00:54:56.320 --> 00:54:58.800
<v Speaker 6>But in the time that we're waiting and planning, they're

1017
00:54:58.800 --> 00:55:02.000
<v Speaker 6>also waiting and planning, and in particular Iran, if they

1018
00:55:02.119 --> 00:55:05.000
<v Speaker 6>get financial infusions during this period of time that we're

1019
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:06.960
<v Speaker 6>kicking the can down the road, that money is not

1020
00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:09.719
<v Speaker 6>going to some static account and just collecting interest for them.

1021
00:55:09.880 --> 00:55:12.320
<v Speaker 6>It's going to be spent on things to rebuild what

1022
00:55:12.519 --> 00:55:14.920
<v Speaker 6>was damaged. And it's like Andy you've mentioned on previous

1023
00:55:14.920 --> 00:55:17.679
<v Speaker 6>episode that you know and also you two maic if

1024
00:55:17.679 --> 00:55:20.079
<v Speaker 6>we're giving them three hundred million dollars to reconstruct, well,

1025
00:55:20.079 --> 00:55:22.920
<v Speaker 6>the things that were destroyed were not civilian infrastructure. They

1026
00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:26.119
<v Speaker 6>were military infrastructure or dual use infrastructure that has a

1027
00:55:26.159 --> 00:55:28.480
<v Speaker 6>military purpose. So that money is going to be going

1028
00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:30.440
<v Speaker 6>back for them to reconstruct the things that we destroyed,

1029
00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:35.119
<v Speaker 6>which are military structures, facilities, equipment, resources. They're going to

1030
00:55:35.159 --> 00:55:39.719
<v Speaker 6>reposition those resources. Those resources are not for purely defensive purposes.

1031
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:42.360
<v Speaker 6>They are offensive weapons and structures and facilities and so on.

1032
00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:44.960
<v Speaker 6>So they're going to be reconstituting the entire time. They're

1033
00:55:44.960 --> 00:55:47.559
<v Speaker 6>also resilient in learning. They're learning from the mistakes that

1034
00:55:47.599 --> 00:55:49.280
<v Speaker 6>they just suffered through in the last two months of

1035
00:55:49.480 --> 00:55:51.800
<v Speaker 6>a meat grinder, teaching them new things, and they're going

1036
00:55:51.880 --> 00:55:53.719
<v Speaker 6>to do them differently. They're going to rely more on

1037
00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:55.840
<v Speaker 6>drones and so on and so forth, you know, as

1038
00:55:55.880 --> 00:55:58.679
<v Speaker 6>far as strategy is concerned, and less on people the

1039
00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:00.679
<v Speaker 6>next time this happens, because to them, there will be

1040
00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:03.199
<v Speaker 6>a Part two. They're they're waiting for it. They're preparing

1041
00:56:03.239 --> 00:56:03.840
<v Speaker 6>for it every day.

1042
00:56:04.199 --> 00:56:07.079
<v Speaker 2>God know this. So so this this time period now,

1043
00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:10.320
<v Speaker 2>I would think that US and Israeli military planner should

1044
00:56:10.360 --> 00:56:13.960
<v Speaker 2>be concerned that Iran is reconstituting. So absolutely, if it's

1045
00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:15.440
<v Speaker 2>the theory that okay, well they're going to kick it

1046
00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:18.519
<v Speaker 2>off again post elections, well actually Iran has had time

1047
00:56:18.599 --> 00:56:20.079
<v Speaker 2>to recover. That's actually a bad thing.

1048
00:56:20.639 --> 00:56:22.880
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, that's why hes Bola's number one on the list

1049
00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:25.320
<v Speaker 6>of stuff to be negotiated to be you know, hands off,

1050
00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:27.840
<v Speaker 6>because they're seeing like, well, we need to reinforce the

1051
00:56:27.920 --> 00:56:29.960
<v Speaker 6>surrogate forces around us, because that's going to be a

1052
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:32.000
<v Speaker 6>major component of Part two and you can see what

1053
00:56:32.039 --> 00:56:35.639
<v Speaker 6>the houthis. Just yesterday, fifteen government forces in Yemen were

1054
00:56:35.719 --> 00:56:38.559
<v Speaker 6>killed by this massive Houthy attack that was that was

1055
00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:40.280
<v Speaker 6>actually pretty interesting if you want to read about the

1056
00:56:40.480 --> 00:56:42.880
<v Speaker 6>tactics of it. That was very successful. It opened up

1057
00:56:42.880 --> 00:56:44.920
<v Speaker 6>with sniper fire all over the place, kind of like

1058
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:48.159
<v Speaker 6>a mini Dnben Poo from Vietnam era, where they surrounded

1059
00:56:48.199 --> 00:56:50.320
<v Speaker 6>them ahead of time and got stuff in there very smartly,

1060
00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:53.400
<v Speaker 6>which means they're probably practicing that technique to use on

1061
00:56:53.519 --> 00:56:56.039
<v Speaker 6>larger scale later, which I wouldn't be surprised to see. So,

1062
00:56:56.960 --> 00:56:59.199
<v Speaker 6>and the Houthis don't have their own economy, you know,

1063
00:56:59.239 --> 00:57:02.719
<v Speaker 6>they rely on to pay for them to a large degree.

1064
00:57:03.159 --> 00:57:04.760
<v Speaker 6>So if Iran gets more of that money, they're going

1065
00:57:04.840 --> 00:57:06.719
<v Speaker 6>to go support the Houthis. They're gonna support Hasbola, and

1066
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:09.679
<v Speaker 6>they're going to support forces in Syria and Iraq for

1067
00:57:09.800 --> 00:57:12.000
<v Speaker 6>part two. That's that's in their mind, like, hey, we

1068
00:57:12.039 --> 00:57:13.320
<v Speaker 6>are still surviving.

1069
00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:18.079
<v Speaker 3>That's what's happening right now. And money is fungible. So

1070
00:57:18.199 --> 00:57:23.280
<v Speaker 3>even if we released the three billion from Katar and

1071
00:57:23.639 --> 00:57:26.239
<v Speaker 3>we get that's you know, food, then they don't have

1072
00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:29.079
<v Speaker 3>to spend that much money on food, right, So it's

1073
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:32.800
<v Speaker 3>there's it's better that they're buying American goods, I suppose,

1074
00:57:32.920 --> 00:57:37.280
<v Speaker 3>but it's not. It doesn't protect the money. It's still

1075
00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:40.360
<v Speaker 3>they still can use the money that they're getting, for example,

1076
00:57:40.480 --> 00:57:44.280
<v Speaker 3>selling in their oil to rebuild the realistic missile capability,

1077
00:57:44.320 --> 00:57:47.000
<v Speaker 3>their suicide drone capability, and every other thing that they've

1078
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:50.320
<v Speaker 3>found to be most effective during Operation Epic period.

1079
00:57:50.920 --> 00:57:53.719
<v Speaker 2>This is which costs and Cushners like this is insane.

1080
00:57:53.800 --> 00:57:55.519
<v Speaker 2>The idea, like the idea of selling it because they're

1081
00:57:55.519 --> 00:57:59.119
<v Speaker 2>buying US goods. It's just mind bogglingly stupid. And it's

1082
00:57:59.199 --> 00:58:01.239
<v Speaker 2>this because you have two estate guys who just think

1083
00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:03.400
<v Speaker 2>in these ways. And that's why we're going down this rye.

1084
00:58:03.440 --> 00:58:05.599
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I find this to be I mean, it's

1085
00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:08.840
<v Speaker 2>it's it's an argument is so easily uh kind of

1086
00:58:09.440 --> 00:58:13.079
<v Speaker 2>you know, dissected because exactly what you said, any kind

1087
00:58:13.119 --> 00:58:15.599
<v Speaker 2>of relief for the Iranians means they can reconstitute their

1088
00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:18.719
<v Speaker 2>military period, end of story. There's no US stipulations, there's

1089
00:58:18.760 --> 00:58:21.400
<v Speaker 2>nothing we can do it just and but but this

1090
00:58:21.559 --> 00:58:23.679
<v Speaker 2>is I mean, you see the President, you see Kushner

1091
00:58:23.719 --> 00:58:25.880
<v Speaker 2>and Wikoff keep talking about this that this is great

1092
00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:28.360
<v Speaker 2>American farmers are going to benefit from the Iran deal. Like,

1093
00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:29.920
<v Speaker 2>my head wants to explode when I hear that.

1094
00:58:32.039 --> 00:58:33.840
<v Speaker 6>It's hilarius because they don't even eat corn. I mean,

1095
00:58:33.920 --> 00:58:35.559
<v Speaker 6>this is just not part of the cuisine. It's like

1096
00:58:35.599 --> 00:58:37.760
<v Speaker 6>we're gonna send American corn cob barrels over there, Like

1097
00:58:37.880 --> 00:58:38.800
<v Speaker 6>what are we talking about?

1098
00:58:42.159 --> 00:58:42.360
<v Speaker 5>Yeah?

1099
00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:46.639
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think we can all agree that the decease

1100
00:58:46.719 --> 00:58:50.599
<v Speaker 4>fu of the negotiations. It's just become a soup sandwich.

1101
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:53.199
<v Speaker 4>But I mean, he, you know, back to you a

1102
00:58:53.360 --> 00:58:57.719
<v Speaker 4>question about the summit, which I think is a great topic.

1103
00:58:57.920 --> 00:58:59.920
<v Speaker 4>When we started off with it, it was Mock's idea

1104
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:02.400
<v Speaker 4>and it hadn't occurred to me. But now I think

1105
00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:04.559
<v Speaker 4>about it, it's really important.

1106
00:59:04.760 --> 00:59:08.840
<v Speaker 5>I think, you know that who knows what us goals are.

1107
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:13.559
<v Speaker 4>But for Mark and I'm pretty mispronounced his named Rutter, right,

1108
00:59:14.079 --> 00:59:15.639
<v Speaker 4>the Dutch guy.

1109
00:59:15.599 --> 00:59:15.679
<v Speaker 2>The.

1110
00:59:17.480 --> 00:59:19.320
<v Speaker 1>Head drops my daddy guy.

1111
00:59:19.800 --> 00:59:24.039
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So I mean he's gonna he's going to want

1112
00:59:24.039 --> 00:59:27.559
<v Speaker 4>to emphasize the building on the five percent of GDP

1113
00:59:27.760 --> 00:59:29.960
<v Speaker 4>pledge from the you know, from the Hague.

1114
00:59:31.039 --> 00:59:32.199
<v Speaker 2>But he's gonna also want to.

1115
00:59:32.480 --> 00:59:35.840
<v Speaker 4>Tell the US, say, look, the Europe's already embarking on

1116
00:59:35.960 --> 00:59:36.360
<v Speaker 4>this goal.

1117
00:59:36.440 --> 00:59:37.360
<v Speaker 5>European nations.

1118
00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:41.840
<v Speaker 4>But he's going to want to secure a an agreement

1119
00:59:41.960 --> 00:59:46.039
<v Speaker 4>from the US clarity on what exactly has been a

1120
00:59:46.159 --> 00:59:50.119
<v Speaker 4>commitment to keep a number of these enablers in theater.

1121
00:59:50.400 --> 00:59:50.519
<v Speaker 2>Right.

1122
00:59:50.800 --> 00:59:53.079
<v Speaker 4>You know, the troops says that I said, have taken

1123
00:59:53.159 --> 00:59:56.440
<v Speaker 4>care of to a certain extent by US law. But

1124
00:59:56.639 --> 01:00:02.440
<v Speaker 4>things like i SR long range strike, ballistic missile defense, EDAW,

1125
01:00:02.440 --> 01:00:05.760
<v Speaker 4>air refueling, all those things, strategical left, command and control,

1126
01:00:06.159 --> 01:00:09.239
<v Speaker 4>all of those things are key enablers that the US

1127
01:00:09.400 --> 01:00:13.239
<v Speaker 4>provides to NATO. That you know, there's troops are easy

1128
01:00:13.280 --> 01:00:15.000
<v Speaker 4>to count, so there's a lot of focus on that,

1129
01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:18.679
<v Speaker 4>but there aren't. But again, those are the those are

1130
01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:23.440
<v Speaker 4>the really significant capabilities that the United States is providing

1131
01:00:23.679 --> 01:00:27.760
<v Speaker 4>most likely to be used in NATO short of actual

1132
01:00:27.840 --> 01:00:30.360
<v Speaker 4>outer and out war and certainly in out in our war.

1133
01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:33.440
<v Speaker 4>But I mean the troops are just there almost as a.

1134
01:00:33.480 --> 01:00:35.480
<v Speaker 5>Token presence, let's let's be honest.

1135
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:37.920
<v Speaker 4>So the five percent, and he's going to be wanting

1136
01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:40.800
<v Speaker 4>to to get an agreement, a firm agreement from the

1137
01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:43.920
<v Speaker 4>US on those enablers. And he's going to want to

1138
01:00:44.039 --> 01:00:47.480
<v Speaker 4>I mean, Zelenski's attending, right, so he's going to want

1139
01:00:47.559 --> 01:00:54.039
<v Speaker 4>to Rutter is going to want to be able to say, hey,

1140
01:00:54.159 --> 01:00:58.079
<v Speaker 4>his art commitment, his NATO's commitment, whether it's continuation of Pearl,

1141
01:00:59.280 --> 01:01:05.519
<v Speaker 4>and then agreements outside that to keep both string Ukraine

1142
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:09.119
<v Speaker 4>against Russia. I mean, I imagine that those are his goals.

1143
01:01:09.880 --> 01:01:13.079
<v Speaker 4>Turkey is going to be pushing for the F thirty fives.

1144
01:01:13.360 --> 01:01:15.320
<v Speaker 4>By the way, I thought they weren't allowed F thirty

1145
01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:18.000
<v Speaker 4>fives because they have the S four hundred.

1146
01:01:18.079 --> 01:01:23.679
<v Speaker 2>I thought that, but Trump said it that's small. I mean,

1147
01:01:25.880 --> 01:01:28.199
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't matter, and he keep.

1148
01:01:28.119 --> 01:01:31.079
<v Speaker 1>Talking about US law like this administration gives a funk

1149
01:01:31.159 --> 01:01:31.519
<v Speaker 1>about that.

1150
01:01:31.719 --> 01:01:34.679
<v Speaker 4>But that's going to cause problems A for the Israelis.

1151
01:01:34.840 --> 01:01:36.760
<v Speaker 5>Well, I mean, I know we care about that a

1152
01:01:36.840 --> 01:01:39.000
<v Speaker 5>lot D D does, But no.

1153
01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:40.960
<v Speaker 4>I meant the Israelis is going to be pissed off

1154
01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:43.639
<v Speaker 4>about that. But not just the Israelis, UAE and Saudi

1155
01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:46.280
<v Speaker 4>Arabia who have run into issues.

1156
01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:48.960
<v Speaker 5>On the F thirty five for you know, some for

1157
01:01:49.079 --> 01:01:49.800
<v Speaker 5>similar reasons.

1158
01:01:50.519 --> 01:01:54.559
<v Speaker 2>And there's there's there's something to be said for goals,

1159
01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:56.800
<v Speaker 2>and so again, the whole bunch of folks here have

1160
01:01:56.840 --> 01:01:59.440
<v Speaker 2>been involved in policy making before, whether tip of the

1161
01:01:59.480 --> 01:02:03.119
<v Speaker 2>spear or whether back or both back in Washington. But

1162
01:02:03.320 --> 01:02:06.000
<v Speaker 2>ordinarily you go into a you go into meetings like

1163
01:02:06.079 --> 01:02:11.559
<v Speaker 2>this with a set of hopes, expectations, objectives. Trump changes.

1164
01:02:11.639 --> 01:02:13.440
<v Speaker 2>If you you know, I've been reading Regime Change, this

1165
01:02:13.559 --> 01:02:16.079
<v Speaker 2>is the book by Jonathan Swan and Maggie Haberman. It's

1166
01:02:16.119 --> 01:02:18.920
<v Speaker 2>fascinating because Trump literally just goes on a whim. He

1167
01:02:19.079 --> 01:02:22.920
<v Speaker 2>changes course, changes directions, and it throws everyone into it,

1168
01:02:23.320 --> 01:02:25.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, completely for a loop. And that is what

1169
01:02:25.800 --> 01:02:28.679
<v Speaker 2>can happen here. That's why everyone is nervous on these things.

1170
01:02:28.800 --> 01:02:31.760
<v Speaker 2>We don't know and there might be something, you know,

1171
01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:34.639
<v Speaker 2>on the plane they're gonna fly over Cutty. Actually they

1172
01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:36.480
<v Speaker 2>won't take the Cuttery Force one, which flew over my

1173
01:02:36.519 --> 01:02:38.960
<v Speaker 2>house the other day, by the way, twice, really the

1174
01:02:39.039 --> 01:02:40.639
<v Speaker 2>new Cutvery plane. I was sitting on my deck and

1175
01:02:40.679 --> 01:02:43.400
<v Speaker 2>I say, this giant seven forty seven flying over me.

1176
01:02:45.159 --> 01:02:47.360
<v Speaker 2>But but you know, we just don't know what what

1177
01:02:47.440 --> 01:02:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Trump's going to do. That's that's just and that to

1178
01:02:49.960 --> 01:02:50.880
<v Speaker 2>me is incredible.

1179
01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:51.719
<v Speaker 4>I mean, Mick, you were.

1180
01:02:51.639 --> 01:02:53.320
<v Speaker 2>Sating up a policy. Can you imagine me at the

1181
01:02:53.360 --> 01:02:56.880
<v Speaker 2>Pentagon right now in a policy position and you don't

1182
01:02:56.920 --> 01:02:59.119
<v Speaker 2>know what true social posts or what what's going to

1183
01:02:59.159 --> 01:03:01.320
<v Speaker 2>be from a little oval office, you know, session on

1184
01:03:01.360 --> 01:03:03.440
<v Speaker 2>an app and and you're going to get ship rolling

1185
01:03:03.480 --> 01:03:05.360
<v Speaker 2>downhill to you, and you have to now implement which

1186
01:03:05.400 --> 01:03:07.039
<v Speaker 2>can be one hundred and eighty degrees different what you

1187
01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:08.480
<v Speaker 2>were doing literally two hours ago.

1188
01:03:10.159 --> 01:03:12.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's I mean, it's a challenge. We've talked about

1189
01:03:12.280 --> 01:03:16.960
<v Speaker 3>the need for the NSC policy process, coordination process to restart.

1190
01:03:20.679 --> 01:03:23.280
<v Speaker 3>It's never too late, right, let's do it now maybe

1191
01:03:23.360 --> 01:03:26.599
<v Speaker 3>and and get some of the career professionals back there.

1192
01:03:26.639 --> 01:03:28.920
<v Speaker 3>But I just don't see, that's not appen. That's not

1193
01:03:29.039 --> 01:03:31.599
<v Speaker 3>gonna happen. I think Secretary of Rubio would want it

1194
01:03:31.639 --> 01:03:34.039
<v Speaker 3>to happen. I mean, he's technically the National Security Advisor

1195
01:03:36.559 --> 01:03:41.320
<v Speaker 3>if because he doesn't well, I think General Keane would

1196
01:03:41.360 --> 01:03:43.679
<v Speaker 3>be great if they're looking for a national security advisor.

1197
01:03:43.800 --> 01:03:44.159
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

1198
01:03:44.440 --> 01:03:51.440
<v Speaker 4>So we go to what's that buddy, they're going to

1199
01:03:51.639 --> 01:03:53.119
<v Speaker 4>clear up the reflecting pool?

1200
01:03:53.199 --> 01:03:53.480
<v Speaker 5>First?

1201
01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:56.440
<v Speaker 2>Did you see did you guys send it to me?

1202
01:03:56.480 --> 01:03:58.639
<v Speaker 2>Someone else send me? So there's there was people who

1203
01:03:58.719 --> 01:04:00.599
<v Speaker 2>made was it in our chat? Jellow shot?

1204
01:04:00.719 --> 01:04:02.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the jealous shot.

1205
01:04:03.519 --> 01:04:06.079
<v Speaker 2>That was amazing, green yellow shot.

1206
01:04:06.199 --> 01:04:09.039
<v Speaker 3>Friend of mine said that to me it was a

1207
01:04:09.079 --> 01:04:12.360
<v Speaker 3>Trump supporter by the way, it's just funny. It's funny.

1208
01:04:12.639 --> 01:04:18.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right, boys, anything else we did it. We did

1209
01:04:18.639 --> 01:04:21.159
<v Speaker 1>a lot. I never feel good after these conversations, but

1210
01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:21.920
<v Speaker 1>we did do a lot.

1211
01:04:22.280 --> 01:04:24.320
<v Speaker 2>I went. I was on DC yesterday. I went to

1212
01:04:24.360 --> 01:04:26.360
<v Speaker 2>the Nats game and started eleven am. It was about

1213
01:04:26.360 --> 01:04:28.400
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and fifteen by the time we left it, too.

1214
01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:29.480
<v Speaker 5>It was hot.

1215
01:04:31.480 --> 01:04:33.880
<v Speaker 3>It was hot seventy five degrees out here.

1216
01:04:33.800 --> 01:04:37.320
<v Speaker 1>In Jealous it's been a it's been really hot in

1217
01:04:37.360 --> 01:04:39.440
<v Speaker 1>New York too, it's been one hundred degrees and disgusting.

1218
01:04:40.360 --> 01:04:42.599
<v Speaker 1>I was looking at like Copenhagen in places like that

1219
01:04:42.679 --> 01:04:45.679
<v Speaker 1>where it's like sixty five degrees. I'm like, fuck, why

1220
01:04:45.719 --> 01:04:49.639
<v Speaker 1>can't it be like this here? Sorry? We again, by

1221
01:04:49.679 --> 01:04:57.840
<v Speaker 1>the way, us playing Belgium. Yeah all right, yeah, So

1222
01:04:58.760 --> 01:05:01.519
<v Speaker 1>I want everyone to go and check out Mix. You

1223
01:05:01.559 --> 01:05:04.480
<v Speaker 1>guys talked about stoicism. He's got a stoicism podcast called

1224
01:05:04.519 --> 01:05:07.480
<v Speaker 1>The Pub and the Porch Applied Stoicism. Those links are

1225
01:05:07.519 --> 01:05:10.599
<v Speaker 1>in the description. Andy Milvern's got a great book that's

1226
01:05:10.639 --> 01:05:13.880
<v Speaker 1>coming out soon. Very excited. He sent me the the

1227
01:05:14.119 --> 01:05:18.559
<v Speaker 1>uh cover and the back cover, like, uh, you know, summary,

1228
01:05:19.079 --> 01:05:20.719
<v Speaker 1>it's going to be a really good one. You've worked

1229
01:05:20.840 --> 01:05:23.519
<v Speaker 1>very very diligently on it, I would say, Andy, and

1230
01:05:23.599 --> 01:05:26.559
<v Speaker 1>I'm extremely extremely excited for it. Can we say what

1231
01:05:26.599 --> 01:05:30.880
<v Speaker 1>it's called or no? Yeah, yeah, I don't want to

1232
01:05:31.119 --> 01:05:36.360
<v Speaker 1>overstep Warren Gaza Warren Gaza seven October and it's aftermath

1233
01:05:36.440 --> 01:05:38.199
<v Speaker 1>and account from both sides. What do you think I

1234
01:05:38.320 --> 01:05:42.400
<v Speaker 1>just spaced out just now a little prizes, No, I

1235
01:05:42.480 --> 01:05:43.159
<v Speaker 1>got my phone.

1236
01:05:43.719 --> 01:05:47.920
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, first first installments on first chapter one is on substack.

1237
01:05:48.079 --> 01:05:52.639
<v Speaker 4>Now it's about the lead up to the attacks.

1238
01:05:54.280 --> 01:05:56.639
<v Speaker 1>It's very good. It's that first chapter is really good,

1239
01:05:57.039 --> 01:05:59.199
<v Speaker 1>incredible because you see what's going on on the ground

1240
01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:03.800
<v Speaker 1>and the confusion and like, you know, people that want

1241
01:06:03.840 --> 01:06:06.280
<v Speaker 1>to bring it up to higher but the mid levels

1242
01:06:06.320 --> 01:06:08.960
<v Speaker 1>are like no, you know, it's it's an interesting look

1243
01:06:09.000 --> 01:06:11.280
<v Speaker 1>at it. I'm very excited about it. I'm sure it'll

1244
01:06:11.280 --> 01:06:14.000
<v Speaker 1>get a lot of people upset, Andy, which is fine.

1245
01:06:14.079 --> 01:06:14.719
<v Speaker 1>They'll get over it.

1246
01:06:16.239 --> 01:06:18.559
<v Speaker 4>Made made a huge effort to make it a very

1247
01:06:19.920 --> 01:06:20.519
<v Speaker 4>I uh.

1248
01:06:22.559 --> 01:06:27.119
<v Speaker 1>Already call it crazy.

1249
01:06:28.320 --> 01:06:31.559
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, is that BB calling to ask about it?

1250
01:06:32.039 --> 01:06:32.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

1251
01:06:32.480 --> 01:06:35.199
<v Speaker 1>When it when? When it is? When is this going

1252
01:06:35.280 --> 01:06:35.639
<v Speaker 1>to be out?

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01:06:36.840 --> 01:06:39.039
<v Speaker 4>It's not going to be out until the end of

1254
01:06:39.079 --> 01:06:41.079
<v Speaker 4>the year, early next early next year.

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01:06:41.159 --> 01:06:41.679
<v Speaker 2>That's the problem.

1256
01:06:41.719 --> 01:06:43.719
<v Speaker 4>With using Hey make by the way, I'm going to

1257
01:06:43.760 --> 01:06:46.960
<v Speaker 4>get back to you on self published a different you know,

1258
01:06:47.079 --> 01:06:52.039
<v Speaker 4>the after action from Gaza because the gazet book separate

1259
01:06:52.079 --> 01:06:55.199
<v Speaker 4>the one I've written. I'm committed to a publisher. I'm

1260
01:06:55.199 --> 01:06:56.840
<v Speaker 4>going to say good things about the publisher.

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01:06:56.920 --> 01:06:57.519
<v Speaker 5>They've been great.

1262
01:06:57.559 --> 01:06:59.280
<v Speaker 4>But the problem is that when you that, when you

1263
01:06:59.320 --> 01:07:02.960
<v Speaker 4>submit a minute script, there's a delay and for the

1264
01:07:03.119 --> 01:07:06.199
<v Speaker 4>editing process. It's not just the editing process, but it's

1265
01:07:06.320 --> 01:07:08.760
<v Speaker 4>lining up to get a slot. I guess unless you're

1266
01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:11.440
<v Speaker 4>a really big name, and I'm not a really big

1267
01:07:11.519 --> 01:07:14.960
<v Speaker 4>name obviously, so yeah, it's a leista. It's gonna be

1268
01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:18.280
<v Speaker 4>about a six month wait, all right.

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01:07:18.239 --> 01:07:19.760
<v Speaker 1>So keep an eye out for that. Of course, your

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01:07:19.760 --> 01:07:23.000
<v Speaker 1>autobiography When of the Tempets gathers great book. Check that out.

1271
01:07:23.119 --> 01:07:25.960
<v Speaker 1>All the links for Andy Supstack and the book down

1272
01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:29.079
<v Speaker 1>in the description. Jonathan Hackett, he's got two great books

1273
01:07:29.079 --> 01:07:32.119
<v Speaker 1>as well. I ran Shadow Weapons and The Theory of

1274
01:07:32.159 --> 01:07:36.159
<v Speaker 1>a Regular Warfare, very good books. Jonathan, of course is

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01:07:36.199 --> 01:07:39.840
<v Speaker 1>our resident smart guy. And Mark p. You have a book,

1276
01:07:39.880 --> 01:07:42.719
<v Speaker 1>Clarity and Crisis that came out a while ago. Though

1277
01:07:43.039 --> 01:07:47.320
<v Speaker 1>five years when are you doing another one? Not nice? Okay?

1278
01:07:47.960 --> 01:07:49.639
<v Speaker 1>So if you want to watch, check out Mark's links.

1279
01:07:49.679 --> 01:07:51.920
<v Speaker 1>He's earning the description as well. He's also on MS.

1280
01:07:52.039 --> 01:07:54.800
<v Speaker 1>Now you know, MS not as any fucking plugs from us.

1281
01:07:54.800 --> 01:07:55.559
<v Speaker 1>They should plug us.

1282
01:07:56.239 --> 01:07:58.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm on tomorrow morning talking about this straight. I just

1283
01:07:58.320 --> 01:07:58.920
<v Speaker 2>got a note.

1284
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:03.400
<v Speaker 1>And if you want to support the show, Patreon dot com,

1285
01:08:03.559 --> 01:08:06.880
<v Speaker 1>slash the Teamhouse and of course the white Fish Security.

1286
01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:08.159
<v Speaker 1>So I'm to check it out. That link is in

1287
01:08:08.159 --> 01:08:10.679
<v Speaker 1>a description as well. Guys, A pleasure as Allly.

1288
01:08:13.280 --> 01:08:15.039
<v Speaker 7>Hey, guys, I want to take a moment to tell

1289
01:08:15.079 --> 01:08:18.600
<v Speaker 7>you about the Team House Podcast Newsletter. If you go

1290
01:08:18.720 --> 01:08:21.760
<v Speaker 7>and subscribe, it's totally free, and what it will do

1291
01:08:22.079 --> 01:08:25.359
<v Speaker 7>is aggregate all of our data, all of our content

1292
01:08:25.439 --> 01:08:28.760
<v Speaker 7>that we put out, the things that are on the Teamhouse,

1293
01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:33.840
<v Speaker 7>on our geopolitics podcast, Eyes On, things that I write

1294
01:08:33.920 --> 01:08:38.000
<v Speaker 7>journalistically with Sean Naylor on the high Side, anything else

1295
01:08:38.079 --> 01:08:42.680
<v Speaker 7>that we have going on books, we recommend upcoming guests

1296
01:08:42.760 --> 01:08:45.720
<v Speaker 7>that we have coming on the show, and also you know,

1297
01:08:45.800 --> 01:08:49.039
<v Speaker 7>filtering in some fun stuff in there as well. If

1298
01:08:49.079 --> 01:08:50.600
<v Speaker 7>you go and check it out, we send it out

1299
01:08:50.720 --> 01:08:52.840
<v Speaker 7>just once a week. We don't want to spam you, guys.

1300
01:08:53.079 --> 01:08:55.079
<v Speaker 7>It's just a kind of roll up of all of

1301
01:08:55.239 --> 01:08:58.560
<v Speaker 7>our content on a weekly basis. You can find our

1302
01:08:58.680 --> 01:09:04.439
<v Speaker 7>newsletter at teamhouse podcast dot kit dot com slash join again.

1303
01:09:04.640 --> 01:09:07.960
<v Speaker 7>The website for that is teamhouse podcast, dot kit dot

1304
01:09:08.079 --> 01:09:10.920
<v Speaker 7>com slash join uh so we hope to see you there.

1305
01:09:11.640 --> 01:09:12.960
<v Speaker 2>The link will be down the description

1306
01:10:01.479 --> 01:10:05.520
<v Speaker 5>Assass
