Speaker 1: At the forefront when you first see it. Protest you
dot com and their counterpart on Twitter is a place
where you can find amazing videos like this well sort
of pastor showing that he can walk on air. That's
the work of Protestia dot com and it is also
though the tip of what they do. They are an
organization headed by a guy named David Morril who joins
us today, and if you read further down the line,
he's a deeply theological man who has paid a price
for speaking his mind, both as a National Guard member
and as a citizen, and he's gladly paid that price.
He joins us today with the courtesy of our YouTube channel,
YouTube dot com slash at The Todd Herman Show ends
under the great auspices of God Almighty.
Speaker 2: The Todd Herman Show is one hundred percent disapproved by
big pharma technocrats and tyrans everywhere from the hind mountains
of Free American Here's the Emerald City God her Man.
Speaker 1: Today is today the Lord has made, and these are
the times to which God has decided we shall live.
David Merril joins us live from Denver, Colorado, a city
that has been seattlezed.
Speaker 3: David appreciate you being here. Thank you man, thanks for
having me on the show. Todd loved to see you. Yeah,
good to see you. Love your hat, love what you're
doing at protest to you dot com. Let's start real quick,
just by groundsetting that you're a guy who's paid a
cost for free speech. And I know the podcast family
will appreciate this because people who are willing to pay
these prices I think mean something to us. So talk
about what happened to you as a National Guard member.
Speaker 4: Well so, and then first I should say that nothing
I say represents the army or the Colorado National Guard.
But yeah, well yeah, I gotta say that. You gotta
put that out there, you know, I mean, they really
require that. Okay. Yeah. Back in twenty twenty two, I
was doing this, the protesting, this podcast actually with a
past or friend of mine, JD. Hall, and we talked
politics and we talked because you know, it's very much
from a Christian conservative perspective, but we talk politics, and
we talk the ins and outs of how to navigate
you know, the modern modern times and modern situations as
Christians who want to be civilly engaged, civically engaged politically engaged,
and I said some stuff on that podcast again off
duty as a National Guardsman. We're on duty, then we're
off duty, and I'm off duty and kind of irregular
clothes like I am now, probably wearing the same hat
or something else, and I said some things that then
somebody reported to the guard PAO and they decided to
punish me. So they actually punished me militarily for the content,
not not just that I said something, but the content
of what I said, and accused me of being a
racist in an official memorandum. Accused me of being racist.
And it was because I said that I didn't see
the evidence that George Floyd was targeted because of his race,
not that he wasn't, but just that I didn't see
the evidence.
Speaker 1: I said, you didn't see the evidence.
Speaker 4: Right, That's exactly what I said. I I don't see
the evidence George Floyd was targeted because of his race.
But the funny thing is Keith Ellison, who prosecuted Derek Chauvin,
said the same thing. The extremely liberal prosecutor that put
Derek Chauvin in prison didn't charge him with a hate
crime because he didn't see the evidence that Floyd was targeted.
Because of his race. I said the same thing. I
got punished for it and I wasn't even on duty.
Has nothing to do with the military. So it's just
kind of crazy times in terms of the free speech
that we're living in, And for me, at least, my
heart is to what can I do to help service
members be able to not have this happen to them. Now,
I'm pretty old as far as military goes, but I'm
thinking about the younger guy who can't afford to fight.
I can afford to fight. Well.
Speaker 1: I love that you think of it that way, and
you did sue for your First Amendment rights right? Didn't
a lawsuit?
Speaker 4: Yes, it's in the Colorado of District Court as we speak.
Speaker 1: All right, let's try this video again, this pastor walking
on air to see if you're convinced and perhaps you'll
end up following this church. Here we go. This is
from Protestia dot Com. That looks like the Brady Bunch set.
Speaker 4: That sooks good, beautifully well shot.
Speaker 1: My goodness, they spared no expense. Wow, like the Lord
Jesus himself competer walk on water. Do you ever get
people angry at you? Did you ever get the pastors
or the impastors or pastor pastric Si. Do you ever
get in touch with you and get angry with you?
Speaker 4: Yes, usually not out in the open. Usually it's a
private message or something, or every once in a while
we'll get a seasoned desist. We like to call them
nasty grams. Yeah right, we just we ignore them where
we put them on the wall or something. I mean. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So this is a tip of the sphere way of
reaching people and drag attention. And you're a thinker theologically,
and I want to talk through some of the more
serious aspects of this. We'll go back and forth and
play some of the videos because there's some pretty serious stuff.
There's people like Andy Stanley and other folks who are
misleading flocks and the false teachers. So we'll talk about
this with David Morrel. Hey, last night, I decided to
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dot com slash Todd promo code Todd. So David, these
the fact that you can fill protest you dot com
on such a regular basis with these astonishing videos of
heretics causing theological mischief. I think you call it. That
means to me that there is a plethora of this
stuff available. If you were to guess in the churches
in America, what percentage do you think are biblically sound?
I mean, there's some data on this, but what do
you think are biblically sound churches?
Speaker 4: It's probably I would think around fifteen twenty percent. Yeah,
you know, maybe lower, depending on exactly where we draw
that line.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a survey that's very famous that shows that
about fifteen percent of youth pastors have a biblical worldview.
Speaker 4: That's the youth.
Speaker 1: Pastors, and that means that the flock doesn't. So obviously
Satan's at work in this. He wants to destroy christ Church.
But talk about the politics and our civic duty and
your view of this and pastors and how you think
they should be interacting politically, Well.
Speaker 4: The challenge has always been in I mean, and I
speak specifically from an evangelical perspective, as an evangelical, but really,
in all Christian churches, how much should politics and civic
engagement be directly preached from the pulpit. You know pastors
who who preach through the whole council of God's Word,
the whole council of the Bible, and they do it
faithfully and they don't dodge and pick certain topics and
not others, depending on what the culture. You know, the
current cultural zeitgeist is, usually have flocks that know how
to then apply that to their political participation. You know,
as people who live in a country it is self
governed yep, where it is the people who actually possessed
the governmental political authority, how to you navigate that within
the church? And now that the you know, as I
like to say, the bloom is off the roads as
far as church is trying to stay out of the culture,
and they're all becoming much more politically and civilly engaged.
That presents new opportunities for truth obviously to be applied
to the culture, but also a lot of opportunity for
falsehoods to enter the church by way of talking about
culture and talking about politics.
Speaker 1: So you're so close to this closer than I am,
and I'm always curious about what how many of these
pastors know they're faking it? You know, we had a
pastor at our church, a former Lutheran church in Seattle.
I'm an evangelical non donam, and we found out he'd
been trained in one of the sooral schools, so he
was a shepherd for sale. And they had this great deal.
They're going to pay seventy five percent of his salary.
And there were plenty of us in the church body
who fought against this, and ultimately the church made a
bad decision and they hired the guy David. I kid
you not. His sermons always contain quotes from South Park,
a blatantly at least antagonistic to Christ, if not anti
christ show, given the way they treated the Lord Jesus
every sermon. And I saw that this guy came in
and the church body was decimated and some people stayed,
but it became then this political church. And I always
wanted to ask him, do you know you're false?
Speaker 4: Teacher?
Speaker 1: I mean, do you know that you are making yourself
an enemy of the Lord Jesus? Talk me through this.
How many these people actually know they're lying?
Speaker 4: You never really know, You never really know. But the
thing is, we're not called to know necessarily the motives
of another person's heart. We are called to judge what
they say and what they practice and what they promote.
That's something that is a requirement of every Christian, every
Christian is and that's one of the ways that we
love each other as believers, is we hold one another
accountable for what's being taught, what's being promoted, what's being done.
And so, yeah, you're gonna have some false teachers who
are knowingly false teachers. They know they're deceiving, they know
they're in it for personal gain and to make themselves
famous or rich or whatever. And then you're gonna have
some that are they're self deceived, they really don't know.
They actually think they're doing what's right.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: Jesus talked about this in Matthew seven when he said
that there will be those on the last day that say,
Lord Lord, did we not do all these things in
your name? Did we not prophesy? And basically they list
all these great works and he says, yeah, depart from me,
I never knew you. And then he defines it. He says,
depart from me, you workers of lawlessness. So he says,
this is how you will know. This is how you
will know that you were not mine, that you are
not preaching the true Christ. You are not teaching true doctrine.
Is the works of lawlessness that are the evidence of that.
Speaker 1: So this ruings us back. I think too, we're talking
about Denver becoming sattlized and lawlessness, and again it's politics
and faith meeting. I tend to believe that Satan runs
his organization like a military outfit, right, He's the supreme leader.
He's got bosses of tens and bosses of hundreds, and
there's no debate. Satan runs things, and I think he
takes test runs. So I tend to believe he is
right now prepping the world for the arrival of the
lawless one, which to me brings us back to pastors
on the pulpit. How do they approach this without making
every single sermon a discussion of this bill or that bill,
or this politician or that politician. I have my view,
what's yours? If you get down to the actual act
of standing in front of your congregation, how would you
advise pastors to address things like the open lawlessness in Denver?
Letting you know homeless people, sees houses, and et cetera.
Speaker 4: It's they need to not fear the culture. The word
of God, the Bible speaks into every one of these issues,
every one. There's no new sin under the sun, right,
So listen a while. While we might feel like what
we're going through is brand new, nobody's ever experienced this before,
it's never happened. That's that's not true. And the Bible,
which God very much designed to be for all of time,
that an immovable truth speaks into all of it. So
I always encourage pastors continue to preach the truth and
be responsive. I mean, you can be responsive to what's
going on in the lives of the congregation, and that
involves being being informed about what's going on out there
and then preach the unapologetic word of God into those circumstances.
And the problem is pastors are very often afraid to
do it for those reasons. They're they're going to offend somebody.
And it's like, yeah, but you're you're a preacher of
the Word of God. You're going to offend somebody. That's it.
It's going to offend a godless culture obviously.
Speaker 1: Well, and I think you know, if you look at
protesta dot com and Devenrol the publisher. There are people
who are going to watch these pastors and they're going
to be offended. On the behalf of Jesus. Christs are
the people who are offended that you're bringing light to this.
This always astonishes me that people say things in public right,
and they're in their bubble think, in their bubble world,
and then you simply popularize it, right, popularize it here
you go, what do you want pastors to be doing
in eldership, in church shepherding? Because you have a friend
of us who wrote a book Shepherd's for Sale. How
do church leadership bodies, and we're part of that body,
as the members of a church, how do they look
for signs that their church is being politicized or being
made heretical.
Speaker 4: It's it can be tough, it can be tough, but
it's it's the Bible encourages every Christian. I mean, the
responsibility to discipline the church is the responsibility of all believers.
I mean, that's certainly what I believe, and I think
that's that's what the Bible supports, and I think that
that's what churches should do. But we have to remember
that that pastors are not in an elevated status of
spiritual authority. They are they're brothers among us, They're among
the flock. You know, the Bible says, shepherd the flock
among you, and so they they should be afforded the benefit.
It really is a benefit of having the rest of
the church around them watching their back. And we like,
as Christians, we need other Christians to watch our backs
and tell us when we're doing something wrong and be
willing to love us enough to challenge us. You know.
A big part of the reason we challenge, you know,
guys that we think are teaching falsely or people that
are doing things in the name of Christ that are
that are not biblical and are not Christian, is because
we love them. It seems like it seems like, well,
if you love them, you wouldn't challenge them. But the
Bible very much is in support of challenging, challenging people
who you love. Yeah, it's an exercise of Christian love
to watch our pastors back. They need. I mean, pastors
are out there kind of floating in the wind sometimes
feeling like if I don't do the right thing from
the pulpit, or I don't have the music of the
right volume or the carpet, the right power or whatever
I'm going to get. I'm gonna get torched. Right. These
people are gonna fire me, They're gonna kick me out,
and so it's very unstable. They need to know that
if you're faithful to preach the Word, you're faithful to
preach the full counsel of the Word into the culture,
that there are other men and women in your church
that love you and they have your back, and they'll
go to the map for you. It's really important that
they know that they're not our employee, that they are
our fellow believer, and that we're they have our support. Yep.
Speaker 1: And I think the Bible, man, I know the Bible
teaches us that we can learn to know the Good
Shepherd's voice.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: The Lord Jesus said, my sheep know my voice. Right,
I'm the good Shepherd. So when we spend time in
his words on a consistent basis and around more mature Christians,
people who have gone through a longer or maybe they're
faster learners than their spiritual walks, everybody learns differently. We
learn the voice of the Lord Jesus, the Good Shepherd
I think this is an ultimate defense when a church
will start to fall. Let me give you some personal
examples you can have in this society where Satan is
just just abusing kids with gender confusion. You'll have a
teenager who might come home and say, yeah, well, Mom,
what do you know you're a CIS woman. The first
time you hear your teenagers say sis, you need to
stop and say it. Wait, hold on a second, what
does that mean? Sis? What does that mean?
Speaker 4: Explain?
Speaker 1: And you know, but this means that your child has
begun speaking the language of the enemy. So when our
church fell, it was preceded by one of our pastors
who began doing sermons about the earth. And I sat
and listened to a sermon one day about the earth,
and he sprinkled in some Jesus. You know, here's my view.
I want climate change legislation. Let's sprinkle some Jesus on
top of that. And then a sermon that didn't contain
a single word of God. And I did. What you're
supposed to do is to go firsonally to the pastor
and say, I'm pretty disturbed that was a political speech.
You didn't contain the word of God at all. So
are there minds like that that we can see in
our churches that are their key words or key phrases,
or is there a line of attack the enemies using
those commonly to get pastors to spread lies.
Speaker 4: Well, certainly it's you know, Chris, As Christians, we were
kind of predisposed to try to be understanding, to try
to hope all things, and to assume anything that's being
you know, pushed in or or promoted in the name
of Jesus, we were we've kind of been trained to
not to back off and not really judge that in
the way that we should. And so the the these
worldly ideologies, these ideologies that are not found in scripture,
they're found outside of scripture, very often found in you know,
long standing worldviews that oppose a biblical worldview. They sneak
in on that basis. So we we when when a
pastor is preaching from the Word of God, when they're
actually taking the meaning of the text and teaching that,
we call that Exejesus. They're explaining the meaning of the text.
But what you're describing in this situation was what we
would call is of Jesus. They're reading outside meaning into
the text and it sounds like in this case, it's
just like, well, I'm going to say Jesus a few
times and sort of try to christianize, right, yeah, And
so for the guy in the pews, it's basically, be
aware of these godless ideologies that are out there. Be
aware of the godlessness of modern climate change ideology, the
godlessness of modern gender ideology, the godlessness of modern race ideology,
and in critical race theory, these kinds of things. Be
aware of what those are. So that when you hear
something that's being said being done in the name of
Jesus or taught in the name of Jesus, but you
recognize the content is not biblical and it actually matches
with one of these other unbiblical ideologies, that's the time
to do exactly what you did and question him and
say you didn't get that from the Bible. Where did
that come from? Right? Right?
Speaker 1: I've been a proponed to the idea that the most
powerful form of propaganda is something called the propaganda of silence.
So if yes, no one discusses it, then how do
you know it's happening. So this is used by the
mockingbird media all the time that the propaganda of silence.
Our media here is really loath to report on what
Elon Musk did when he lit this flame in England
by actually drawing attention back to this insane scandal of
these gangs of Pakistani men going and sexually assaulting girls
and grooming them and turning them out right, that he
has lit this Fightman, now there's this outrage. The power
of the mockingbird media here is to say, yeah, we're
not going to talk about that. They did this with
the lies of transgenderism. Oh that's not happening. There's no
sex at in the schools. They just ignored it. I
think it's harder to look at a church body and
observe that, wait, we're not going to talk about the
definition of marriage. We're not going to revisit this. I mean,
this is a big deal abortion. The left tried to
make that a huge election issue, and we're not going
to talk about the sanctity of life. Do you think
that's a harder challenge for people in the pews that
they have to now observe the silence and then maybe
go ask like, hey, why are we silent on this?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it is. It is because again, I mean,
you want to trust your pastor. You want to trust
the people that you believe God has placed in these positions.
And so when they sin, and they will their men
and you know they're the regular guys when they sin
or they air a lot of churches and the thing is,
you don't see it until it's too late. But a
lot of churches let in the church members, let this
go on, Let this go on and metastasize until it's
too late, and now there's a church split, or it's
too late, and now there's a sex scandal from the pulpit.
And that entire time, that man placed in that position
was basically robbed of the benefit of having his fellow
believers hold him accountable. He needed that, and a lot
of churches deny it to him because it's it's hard
work challenging somebody, especially somebody who who everybody else sees
as as the leader and they and they are they're
supposed to be leading within that congregation. Challenging that person
sometimes comes with a significant cost. I mean, and a
lot of us that have done this kind of work,
I mean, we know we've paid that cost. Like our
church is a Southern Baptist church, and I mean the
Southern Baptist Convention, and the guys that run that won't
pick up the phone for me, like I'm I'm forresna
on grata over there. But that's the price that sometimes
has to be paid to be to be willing to
challenge when when it needs to happen, even though it's
an exercise of love. Right.
Speaker 1: And I've pointed this out that there's people who are
not church going Christians, or maybe I would refer to
as as cultural Christians or ethnic Christians. And my family
is Christian, therefore I think I'm Christian. They won't necessarily
know the name like JD. Greer, I mean Pastor Greer.
I have some of his books at home Win by Losing,
and I actually think he has been God's worked through
him phenomenally to grow that church and to make it
a church that turns out disciples. So imagine my shock
when I hear Pastor Greer saying, yeah, we should use
the fake pronouns and we should respect that. And I
know the answer spiritually, it is the deceiver, the distort
or Satan himself who's causing this. But how did the
Southern Baptist Convention, I mean, how did people there not
notice that they were going so far off the rails
in so many ways.
Speaker 4: Well, and in the Southern Baptist Convention, because it's not
a denomination and churches are churches are autonomous, then kind
of do what they want, but like to use JD. Grew,
he's a pastor out in North Carolina, a big I
mean megachurch, multi sit megachurch, recommended using preferred pronouns, and
I for him, it's interesting because I don't think it
was this church that really kind of got him back on,
because he repented of that later, he quit doing that later.
I think it was actually the the you know websites
like Hours and the Information Age and the Internet then
expose this and and and helped bring to bear just
common sense wisdom. You know, I'm basically saying, hey, you know,
preferred pronouns are lying. You know, you're not permitted to
bear false witness just to make somebody feel you are
the first.
Speaker 1: Person I've met actually repeats that to me, like I
can't lie. And I defended my pastory. He'd said about
the injections, well, look, if you're told to take him,
if to take him, and I had to stay to
my pastor no, I'm going to write you a piece
on this. These are not vaccines. This is a lie.
I'm not going to inject my body with a lie,
just like the mask is a lie.
Speaker 4: Right, I'm going to an even if the word doing
I mean biblically speaking, we bodily autonomy is a biblically
derived right for human beings. You don't. You don't have
a right to tell me how to to to stay healthy.
That's actually a responsibility God gave to me, and the
responsibility God gave to me for my family.
Speaker 1: Yeah, super super well said. So I want to get
to the work of a guy named Andy Stanley. Here
a second with David Morrel. Morrel and I want you
to talk about some of the bigger personalities. You wrote
a great piece and kind of reviewing a friend of
yours book Shepherd's for Sale, which is an important book
we should talk about. So in a second, I want
to show people this Andy Stanley video because this is
the fear of Oh gosh, we're going to get called
bad names. And we'll continue this discussion with David. I'm
going down to Mexico again. I am going back down
for stem cell treatment. Now you can hear this and say, man, Herman,
you're falling apart. I'm not. I'm probably, in praise God,
the top one percent of five percent of health for
men my age. And it's really because I'm a lunatic
and working out. Fitness is my passion, so I do
a lot of it. I'm very, very mechanical about what
I eat, to eat the same basically three foods every
day of my life, and I track all my macrobotics.
Here's why I'm going back down is I cannot get
to some of my fitness goals without this. I got
a thing going on with my back, my s side.
Does that sound familiar?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 4: Yes, side joint clicks it.
Speaker 1: I know the bad weathers coming. It's not going to
get better on its own. It's degrading a little bit.
But the tissue around it, the tendons around it, the
cartilage around that can be revived. And what they do
is they use ethically gathered stem cells. Never anything to
do with abortion ever. It is placentas umbilical cords only.
They pay for the entire cost of birth for these women,
the whole thing, even if they don't use the stem cells,
and they do reject some of the stem cells, in
fact of maybe even half of the stem cells. They
track the health of the mother and the baby. Threat
by the way, if they see something wrong, they'll tell them, hey,
this is a concern. They obviously shepherd the responsibility. So
what they will do is they will take a number
of stem cells, maybe up to forty two million, and
they'll inject them very very carefully into my lower back
and it will regenerate any tissue, cartilage, tendon, muscle, and
it will give me an opportunity, even at the age
of fifty seven, to maybe one one more time pull
a four hundred or fo hundred and fifty pound dead
the one more time. And that can mean nothing to you.
It probably should mean nothing, because there's people watching it
or listening to this is saying, oh, good for you, dude.
I can't get out of my car, i can't feel
my hands. I'm being told to have to have this
or that surgery, being pills for this in my life.
And that's the point. Because I'm entertaining myself with fitness,
and I think shepherding the body was given. It's even
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r E nue dot Healthcare. David Moral, this is again
from protesta dot com and your corresponding Twitter channel. Pastor
Andy Stanley compares Christians calling Democrats evil to well, let's
see if y'all can guess.
Speaker 4: Here we go.
Speaker 5: Political affiliation has become the litmus test for orthodoxy. I
hope you haven't seen this, but let me just tell
you what I'm about to tell you is not kind.
Speaker 1: Of off in a corner.
Speaker 5: This is main line speaking and posting, and books are
written in chapters and books are written about this right now.
The current thing for the last three or four years
is that you can't. I was going to put this
on the screen, but there are things I should never
put on a screen to have a picture taken because anyway,
so you know what the messaging is now, this isn't
in the corner these are If I name the people
who are saying these things, you've heard of most of them,
you've read some of their books. That you can't be
a Christian and be a Democrat. You you can't possibly
be a true Christian if you're a Democrat, which is
absolutely absurd. But what's even more absurd is as conservative
Christians Republicans demonize Democrats, all democrats, and you can't possibly
be a Christian as they do demonize democrats, they basically
go against one of Jesus' primary teachings. Instead of loving
their enemies, all these lost democrats, they demonize them. They
make democrats the enemy. And what did Jesus tell us
to do with our enemies?
Speaker 4: Anybody?
Speaker 1: Remember?
Speaker 5: Yeah, So let me just say that, those of you
who are conservative politically like me.
Speaker 4: If you do that, stop it.
Speaker 5: You can disagree, but you don't write somebody off as
bad and evil.
Speaker 1: Here's why you.
Speaker 5: Think it's just think it's just kind of funny. You
study history. All that has to happen in any country
is for a majority to decide a minority is evil.
And once they're evil, they're cockroaches, and they're rats.
Speaker 1: And cockroaches rats gets this too, of course Nazi Germany.
Hey you guessed it. Congratulations, chicken dinner Winter. So who
is this guy and why does Andy Stanley? I mean,
he matters because he is created by God in his
image and that we are to love our enemies, absolutely right,
But why does he have the footprint that he does
and what is his influence?
Speaker 4: Well, so Andy Stanley is a another megachurch pastor down
down in Georgia, but son of Charles Stanley, who was
kind of a kind of a well known name and
then sort of history of conservative evangelicalism, and then his
son Andy starts his own church a little while ago,
kind of build into a big empire. But Andy Stanley
is in the category of what I would describe as
seeker sensitive pastors seeker sensitive churches, which are churches that
have basically designed themselves around appealing to unbelievers and lost
people that come to visit the church. And not that
there's anything wrong with evangelism or anything wrong with preaching
the Gospel, but that's actually not what church services are for.
So what ends up happening is the what should be
worship of God, preaching of the Word of God, the
gathering of Christians together becomes it it it becomes degraded
as they start to change things in their church to
appeal to the to the sensibilities of people that aren't
followers of Jesus Christ and so so I mean, I
mean Andy Stanley's church has been they've they've they've gone
soft on l g B t Q issues. They've they've
gone soft on, uh, you know, the roles of men
and women in ministry. They had a conference very recently
that they didn't stream or anything like that because I
think they knew what was going to happen. They basically
have had told parents how to to handle their their
l g B t Q identifying children, not by telling
them what God says and what the Bible says, but
by affirming their feelings and affirming these things, how to
how to basically minister to your quote unquote gay children.
That's that's been a big part of what they do.
But you saw in that Andy Stanley clip, he didn't
he didn't really deal with the issue. He challenge the terms.
This is a big problem not only in just our
post modern society where people they don't actually talk about
the idea in and of itself as strongly connected with
the term. They deconstruct the term. So if someone says,
you know, like hey, democrats can't be Christian, well the
next thing you should be asking is what do you
mean by democrats and what do you mean by Christian
If you can really solidify those two things, now you
can actually judge whether that statement is true or not.
So if someone like me says, well, you can't be
a Democrat and a Christian, what I'm really saying is
you can't be a Democrat as defined by democrat ideology
and politics and believe those things in any sort of
consistency with being a Bible believing Christian that believes what
the Bible teaches about things. Those two things are not compatible.
Well Andy just throws that out the window, and he says,
no democrat is just whatever somebody says it is. If
they say they're a democrat.
Speaker 1: There's a great very confusing, very confusing. There's a great
book called the Gay Gospel. If you read this book,
I haven't read it, okay, I know written by a
guy who was a pastor and then he had these
same sex attraction feelings. It haunted him and he gave in.
So he and look, that's a super hard thing. Anyone
who thinks it's not hard has never really really had
a conflict of heart and emotionally romantically, never been through
divorce or anything like that. I mean things are hard sometimes,
or saying no to a relationship that you shouldn't have.
Speaker 4: Like it's hard.
Speaker 1: So he fell, and he then had this racked with guilt.
I shouldn't be doing this. I know what the Bible says,
I know what it says about sexuality. And then David,
he found a a same sex attracted friendly church. And
here's the pitch.
Speaker 4: Here's the pitch.
Speaker 1: The Bible does say marriages between a man and a woman.
But God is a loving god. He made us way.
He would never punish us for being who we are
because it's unfair and God is fair and just. That's
the pitch. And when people hear that, there's a great
piece of research A friend of mine did that what
liberals and moderates value in any political discourse or moral
discourse is fairness and compassion. They don't think about liberty,
they don't think about law and order, they don't think
about Afro effects, they don't think about unintentional harm. Is
it compassion and fair? So that really appeals to them. Well,
that sounds very compassionate and fair and inspired by what
you said defining our terms. Well, wait a minute, how
do you define same sex attraction? Is it a feeling
or an identity? And let's poke away at that a
little bit. If someone is kleptomaniacal and they like to steal,
is that their identity now? And where to sponsor that?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: This is what they're This is where to sponsor that.
What I see Andy Stanley doing there is caring in fairness,
compassion in fairness.
Speaker 4: Is it fair? So?
Speaker 1: How do we out love fake love? Because we're to
approach things like same sex attraction and those struggles, We're
to approach them with love. We're to approach democrats who
have been abused of the idea that open borders is
the only way to show love to migrants or illegal immigrants,
it's the only way to do it. How do we
outlove them?
Speaker 4: Well, it's I would argue that that's probably not the
right way to look at it.
Speaker 1: Good, let's hear that.
Speaker 4: If we're Christians, then by definition we're believers in the
power of the Holy Spirit of God to do work
in and among us, and in among our culture. And
so you know, my encouragement is always to not try
to lean on our own wisdom and understanding and our
own strength. And if I can only explain it this,
then maybe they'll they'll quit doing this thing that I
know is sinful. But but be willing to pay the
price for preaching the truth in love and patience and
and you know what the Bible will describe as long suffering.
So for somebody, somebody who's struggling with same sex attraction,
they know that it's wrong scripturally, they know what the
Bible teaches. Our job is not to try try to
win them over by our own cunning and understanding. It's
basically to say, this is what the Bible teaches. I
love you, and because I love you, I'm not going
to withhold this from you. And you might hate me
for it. You know, Jesus said, I've come to divide
father against son, you know, mother against daughter. That that
would happen. We don't want that, I mean our of course,
in our humanity, we don't want that. It's not something
that we seek out. But are we willing to pay
the price. Because the biggest way that this kind of thing,
this especially with kids. I mean that the the transgender
stuff with kids and the you know my kid is
I mean five year olds and I think he's he's
differently attracted or he's a woman. The way that this
infiltrates well meaning churches, well meaning Christian households and things
is because they are unwilling to put their allegiance to
God and his truth above the relationship. So like, and
we find this with conservative Christian pastors and all of
a sudden, they flip the switch and they're teaching something
different than what the Bible teaches about gender. And ninety
nine times out of one hundred, you find that this
was a personal relationship. This was like my son came out,
my daughter came out, my my niece or something was
you know, their parents were claiming that she was a
boy trapped in a girl's body or something. And because
they are unwilling to, because they're really idolizing and loving
their relationships more than they're loving God, they change, they compromise,
they flip, and it's really tough. I don't even deny
how tough that is. When there's a there's a situation
in our families and people that we love that are
now being disobedient. But the question is do you love God?
And is truth more? And are you willing to be
consistent with them? And like, no, I can't go there.
I'm not changing what I believe about this. Right, you
need to repent, please, and I'm baking you repent.
Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting that we go there with them on
the pronouns et cetera. I'm going to share with you
in a second an example of what I mean. There's
this great debate about and you probably know you're far
more educated than I am, who actually said share the
Gospel with everyone you know and when necessary, use words right, right,
And there's another Okay, So I want to give you
an example of what I mean in terms of outloving them,
and I'll share it is a personal example. Never change
my views, will not. I'm very public and be very
difficult for anyone in my family to not ascertain my
views on these things. And that there are people who
hate my guts and they tend to promote the fact
that they hate my guts. But yeah, relying on God's
wisdom rather than ours. Yes, yes, yes, I agree constantly,
And wisdom is something that the Bible is thick in
it's also thick in respecting the common blessings that God
gave both the righteous and the unrighteous. The air, the water, warmth,
the sun, the earth on which we stand, and things
like cinnamon and hissop and holy basil. And there was
a guy named doctor Patrick jen Tempo. He was in
the Holy Land and he was walking where Jesus walks.
He has a podcast called Christ Revealed. He's a thinker theologically,
he's a doctor. And he was smelling all these spices
and herbs, and then he was opening the Bible, going wow,
these are mentioned all the time. Why are we pushing
drugs down people when there's in fact these common blessings.
So he took the intellect with which God blessed him
and he created this product, which is called Wisdom. And
it's a biblically based herbal blend in oil. And I
take it straight, and I won't do it right now
because this is the morning, but I take it straight,
and I'm constantly shocked by how strong it tastes. Why
does it taste so strong? It's so good because it's
made in cold brew process small batches, and then it
is infused with light waves and sound waves which locks
in the potency. So why do I take it. It's not
just because it tastes good, and it does taste good.
It's because of the benefits, immunological benefits, calming a sense
of mental clarity, and taking inflammation from what can be
an enemy to your body, and harnessing for your body's
good right. It's the common blessings of the Lord's provided.
You can try Wisdom now. Go to try wisdom noow
dot com slash todd. When you stock up, you're going
to get thirty three percent off, one hundred and eighty
day money back guarantee, and you'll get free shipping. That's
try Wisdomnow dot com slash todd. David Morrel. I had
this this family reunion this past spring, and one of
our family members is of the opinion that she is
a man, and I love her, and she's far younger
than me, and I was I felt stress and worry
about this, and then I went to the Bible. Okay,
I knew I wasn't going to refer to her with
male pronouns. I can't. I can choose to not use pronouns.
My primary motivation there was to let me disappear for
her to experience God's love through me. And so when
I saw her and approached her, I screwed up because
I couldn't remember the new name. She corrected me, I'm
willing to use the name. That's her name. That's not
a lie, that's her name. She's changed her name. And
after we'd spent some time together, something amazing happened. David,
a homeless woman having a psychotic break drove up into
the mountains, I think, to kill herself, and my family
member found her and screamed for help, and I ran
up the hill and she and I together partnered in
helping this young girl. And then my sister came up,
a liberal nurse practitioner, a liberal, very progressive, very terrified
of Trump, and she and I then tended to that
girl for the rest of the day, pretty much ignoring
the family reunion because she needed it to be safe.
Here's what happened is when I was leaving, I got
an opportunity to walk up to this young woman who
is gender confused, and I meant this, and this is
what the Holy Spirit gave me is I came to
her and said, I know you and I disagree in
something fundamentally important to you. I know that, and you
know that, but I want you to know I am
delighted to see you.
Speaker 4: Well, I love you.
Speaker 1: I'm very proud of the career building, and I want
you to know that God has given you some great,
great gifts. And her response emotionally not why I said it,
but to see tears in her eyes and a recognition
that you still love me, and a recognition of there's
this thing you and I disagree on it, and you
know it. My primary goal was that she walked away
with Wait, where was the hate filled Christian wishing me
to hell? That's what I mean by share the gospel
when not using words that wow, that old man family member,
he actually read he does love me because I saw
tears in his eyes. Does that make sense? That's what
I'm talking about outloving them?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Well, and that is that is a it is
a valid component in something that we should all be doing.
You know, I mean, Jesus teaches us to love our enemies, right,
So what what does that mean? He's he's he's he's
not teaching us that somebody who is violating the rights
of others, or somebody that is attacking us or our
families that we just sit there and take it. That's
not what he's teaching. But he is teaching that we
are to be selfless in our approach to everybody else
so they can know as is as you outline there,
that we disagree, that we believe this is this is
a I mean a sinful problem. This is a problem
that can separate you from the kingdom even and yet
still in my role is I'm going to love you
as much as I can. I'll give you the shirt
off my back. I don't you know that what you
believe or what you practice in this area or those
kinds of things, it has no impact on my desire
to love you. But who defines love, well, God defines love.
So love for her is going to be not compromising
the truth, not being unwilling to tell her, and and really,
like you know, following the leading of the spirit in
that conversation, right, the Spirit of God will tell us
now is the time that you need to really tell
them the truth? Or now is the time when you
need to just love them materially. And that's yeah, that
can be difficult to navigate sure for Christians. But the
important thing to know is that love is not defined
by their preferences. Love is not defined by their feelings
or what they want. But it love does involve, you know,
materially caring for people that we know are in sin.
We know that that you know or you know we
believe or lost, we still care for them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that God placed that young girl
there who is having this psychotic break and she'd you know,
a drug user. She still had on her on her
wrist a hospital brace that because she'd checked herself out
of treatment. I believe God placed her right there so
that my younger family member would be the first to
finder and scream for help, and I would be the
second one there so that she could go, Wow, this
old man, he's like tossing everything aside, freezing, giving this
girl his coat as this like terrible spring snow is
falling on him. And I'm not trying to take credit
for it. I mean we're called to do that. I
want to place one more video clip here.
Speaker 4: This is a.
Speaker 1: False pasture awoke in pastor, by the way, you should
trademark that if you invented that, that's a great phrase.
And in pastor talking about the militaristic bs. And I
want to get your reaction to this and talk about
militarism and the Church. And there are people who online
are really really proposing that Christians get overtly militaristic, that
you know what, the Christian army should go seize the
Middle East, we should go seize these countries. We should
forcibly physically fight back. And I want to talk about
that trend. Let's watch this video together.
Speaker 6: And the last Sunday of the today is also designated
to be sort of traditionally Christ the King Sunday, or
in modern times more likely called Reign of Christ Sunday.
Speaker 1: And the point is this, I do not like the.
Speaker 6: Concept of Christ the King Sunday, and I really don't
want to preach on it. And the reason is that
it has traditionally gotten preached as a kind of a
triumphalist victory over all our enemies, militaristic kind of thing.
And I think a that has no relationship whatsoever with
the notion of unconditional love that I believe is at
the heart of the Gospel. And b Jesus would be
utterly horrified to be worshiped in that kind of way.
And see, that kind of militaristic has absolutely no place
in church, but at least try to remember the rest
of my sermon, So it has no place. And I
dislike it because it leads to all kinds of evil crap,
like Christian nationalism, which I declare to be a heresy,
which also leads to all kinds of evil, divisive.
Speaker 1: Crap like well, I really like a sermon with BS
and the sea word in it for feces, because that's
the emphasis we need. So she's making this statement that's
Christ the King is a militaristic statement. It's about stomping
on her enemies. She's not going to preach that. That's BS,
that sea word for for excrement. Your response to that,
and the response in the comment sections and her if
she had any what's how do you feel about all that?
Speaker 4: Well, there's a there's a Christian nationalism as defined by
the left, by like the Marxist left that's in Western culture,
which is a very different thing than sort of the
Christian nationalism that has talked about within the of evangelical
with a church conversation. And yeah, so this is this
is a pastors as we like to call female pastors,
a pastors at a at a very very radical I
believe it was an evangelical Lutheran church, and that that
denomination has been very left for a very long time
it and and basically pushing this idea that if you
say Christ is King, that's some sort of you know,
dog whistle or something like that for some sort of
militaristic uh, you know, takeover countries and Christianize them kind
of a thing. And well, yeah, I'm sure there's some
people on the fringes that support that kind of idea.
That the thing that I always pull from it is
to want a Christian nation. Is not to say that
we want a nation full of regenerate Christians. There's no
way we can prove that anyway. But I do want
a nation where our laws and our system and our
our civil governance and things is derived as it has
been for the history of this country, derived from Biblical precepts,
from Christian understandings of justice, the the amago day, the
sanctity of the individual as the rights bearer that then
gives the gives up some of that for the purpose
of governing a nation, but that they are the originators
of you know, God gives us rights and then we
give some of that in as as we desire to
to a government. I mean that is my definition of
a Christian nation is a nation that that operates itself
in accordance with God's standards. And yeah, there's gonna be
some there's gonna be some personal elements to that, right.
I mean, our our system of governance is is is
good for what? For? For a sound and moral people.
It's it's it's wholly unfit for any other. That's a
true thing. Right, So obviously we're gonna have to fight
a culture war. We're gonna have to fight a war
for our legal system, and we're gonna have to fight,
you know, for laws and government and structure to be
what they are. But we're also going to have to
fight the culture war of you know, that's sinful behavior,
you shouldn't do that. And I think that's that that's
what they really that's what she's really taking the issue with,
is like, what do you mean you're you mean you're
gonna tell me that that's that that's sinfle and that's wrong,
and that I can't be whatever gender I want and
so on and so forth. I think I think that's
what her her real beef was right.
Speaker 1: And I think that Christian nationalism. For me, a Christian
nation does not mean what a lot of leftists fear
it means. And I have family members if it means this,
that we take over the government and then we come
along and say, okay, convert or die. And it's funny.
I've never saw Jesus do that one single time, because
he could have made his work a lot shorter if
he just came along and got like a thousand people
said hey watch this, I'm Lord about to me. No, okay,
you're all dead now next up right. It could have
been short and easy, but he chose to do it
the way he chose to do it. You know, it's
far too much of this, David, And I don't know.
I think I have time to discuss this other than
talking about shepherds for sale in just a second. But
there are financial motives at play for some of these churches,
denying the Word of Christ and either deemphasizing the gospel
or just refusing to go to the so called hearty
issues of it, and money can pervert things. Look at
our financial system. Our financial system is based upon a
series of lies. One of the lies is that we
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There's a resource we didn't get to this. I kind
of got just distracted in our conversation. But you have
a friend of yours who's written a book called Shepherds
for Sale, and it seems that you think this is
a great tool for pastors and people in congregation, and
last few minutes give us a download on that book
of why you think it's important an important tool and
a book that people should own.
Speaker 4: So so back in back in July, Daily Wire reporter
Megan Bashlor released a book called Shepherd for Sale, in
which she basically had spent the last two years chronicling
the leftist infiltration into different parts of American event especially
American Evangelicalism, but American Christianity in general, through institutions, seminaries,
you know, podcasters and influencers, pastors and pulpits, you know,
Christian media outlets like Christianity Today and these kinds of things.
And like I bought a couple couple copies of the
book and for my pastors, you know, my church, just
to keep them aware of what's going on out there.
But there are a lot of things. As guys are
pastoring on a daily basis and there, and they're shepherding
their local flocks, they can't possibly stay informed of everything
going on in the broader in the broader conversation, the
broader culture. And so I mean that's why websites like
Protestsia exist and Meg Basherm's book Shepherds for Sale, Uh
used a lot of our some of our research and
things as well, which I appreciated, but it's it's kind
of a good just a real good resource and catching
pastors up about Okay, how when when I'm hearing these
things coming into the church where I'm hearing the institutions
I trust, start pushing critical theory and start pushing uh,
you know, racial ideology that that it's unbiblical. Where did
it come from? How did it get here? Who are
who are the proponents of this? It's a really good resource.
For that reason. I told people like, don't go buy
this book and bash your past over the head with it.
Say oh, I heard that in your sermon and you
know you're you're anathema or something. Don't do that, but
but use it as a resource to help catch them
up with with with what's going on in the broader conversation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. And congratulations on Protestia the Twitter channel. Well,
we every time we use your clip I or clips
I really try to give you credit, and I hope
you'll come back from time to time and join us.
And you're welcome anytime here. Appreciate your work and just
thank you for letting God use you that way. David,
I appreciate you deeply.
Speaker 4: Thank you. Thanks. Do I appreciate the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the Todd Herban Show. Please go, be well,
be strong, be kind, and just make every efforts on
a daily basis to walk in the light of Christ.