WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.759 Hey, sports fans, welcome back. It is the Drive with 2 00:00:02.839 --> 00:00:05.200 Spence Check. It's here on ESPN seven hundred and ninety 3 00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:08.279 two NFM, proud to be part of Utah's ESPN Radio network. 4 00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:12.519 I'm Scott Mitchell filling in for Spence this Friday afternoon. 5 00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:14.519 It's a fantastic Friday. Fun Friday. 6 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:19.440 It's a football Friday for me always because Fridays are 7 00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:23.120 just every day when you're in the NFL. Every day 8 00:00:23.160 --> 00:00:27.719 is a Friday, every meal is a banquet and many 9 00:00:27.719 --> 00:00:28.160 other things. 10 00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:30.440 So really fun to be here. 11 00:00:30.519 --> 00:00:35.399 Fun show so far, great conversations with Paul Pugmeyer. Have 12 00:00:35.479 --> 00:00:39.240 got a lot more to get into, and we I 13 00:00:39.320 --> 00:00:43.759 believe we have Howard Beck with us now from the Ringer, 14 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:45.960 so he joins the show talking about the NBA. 15 00:00:46.159 --> 00:00:47.840 Howard, Welcome to the show. How are you doing? 16 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:51.679 I'm doing Look, Scott, how are you well? You know, 17 00:00:52.039 --> 00:00:54.920 it's a marathon day today. I'm living the dream and 18 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:58.719 it's not a nightmare. So you know, I couldn't couldn't 19 00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:01.640 be happier at this time. Have to talk about sports. Uh, 20 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:04.239 the NBA of course is going on right now. The 21 00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:08.280 playoffs are happening. What what of all the series so far, 22 00:01:09.319 --> 00:01:11.959 this round, the semifinal round, what what what's the one 23 00:01:11.959 --> 00:01:14.079 that you find the most intriguing at this time? 24 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:19.200 I mean, there all are, because this has been maybe 25 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:23.519 the wildest, craziest, strangest, most chaotic second round of the 26 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:27.239 playoffs the NBA has ever had. Took forever for a 27 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:31.719 home team to actually win a game. And you know, 28 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:34.400 as as we sit here, you know, a couple hours 29 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:36.959 away from another you know night of games here, you've 30 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:39.799 got you know, the Pacers up two oh and then 31 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:41.319 going home. You know, they're now at home for the 32 00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:43.799 next two games. You gets the Cavaliers team that was 33 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:46.000 far and away the best team in the East all season, 34 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:48.719 and the Cavs banged up in this series. So that's 35 00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:50.920 been a huge part of this. Of course, Darius Garland 36 00:01:50.920 --> 00:01:54.640 out for you know, both of the first two games, 37 00:01:54.680 --> 00:01:59.040 and then they're missing both Hunter and Kevin Mobile in 38 00:01:59.079 --> 00:01:59.519 game two. 39 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:00.959 I think those. 40 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:03.239 Guys are trying to play games three tonight. I'm a 41 00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:04.959 little out of the loop today, so I'm not sure 42 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:07.560 where things stand there. But if the Cavaliers are healthy, 43 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:11.319 I can see them getting back in this series. It's tough, 44 00:02:11.319 --> 00:02:13.879 you know, going down down two zero in a series 45 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:17.680 in any round is very difficult. You you, those teams 46 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:19.879 didn't generally lose it like a seventy five eighty percent 47 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:23.039 rate historically, But you lose the first two at home, 48 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:25.879 you know you're in a hole that that very few 49 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:29.840 teams get out of. Same thing now with Nixon Celtics, 50 00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:32.199 and here we have got the Celtics defending champs. That 51 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:35.680 series resumes tomorrow at Madison Square Guard and that one's 52 00:02:35.719 --> 00:02:37.240 got to be the biggest shocker of them all. I mean, 53 00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:40.039 we've had some really strange twists and turns in the playoffs, 54 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:41.919 but I just I don't think there's a bigger shocker 55 00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:46.240 right now than a Celtics team that is the defending champions, 56 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:50.639 that is pretty much healthy, not perfect, but they've got 57 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:53.280 all the all the requisite bodies, and they're they're they've 58 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:56.879 got the same core group back from the from the 59 00:02:56.919 --> 00:02:59.199 team that won the championship. Like that, there's there's there's 60 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:01.120 nothing you can point to in terms of personnel to say, Okay, 61 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:03.319 well they're not the same group. That's the exact same group. 62 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:07.120 They're just unable somehow to hold on to leads. They've 63 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:09.759 built twenty point leads and blown them in both games 64 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:13.840 so far. That's an NBA first as well. And you know, 65 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:16.840 the Garden is not an easy place for visiting teams 66 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:18.599 to play, but the Celtics have had great success there 67 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:19.919 in the past. We'll see if they can make this 68 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:23.439 a series starting tomorrow. So I think the two East 69 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:25.400 series are the most interesting right now. You know, in 70 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:28.120 the West, you know, the Thunder puts such a beatdown 71 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:29.879 on the Nuggets in Game two, and you kind of 72 00:03:29.879 --> 00:03:32.280 expect that that's where that series would go. But I 73 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:34.360 could see that the Nuggets because of how great Yokic 74 00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:37.479 is them dragging that out. The Warriors have a tough 75 00:03:37.479 --> 00:03:39.400 time now because they don't have Steph Curry. That series 76 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:42.080 has tied one one going back to San Francisco. But 77 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:44.159 if Curry's not playing for at least the next two 78 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:45.639 to three games, which is what it looks like with 79 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:48.199 that hamstring, you know, it's going to be hard for 80 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:53.560 them to manufacture, you know, enough momentum to extend that one. 81 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:56.159 But I think all four of these series have potential 82 00:03:56.240 --> 00:03:59.400 to be really fascinating and then potentially go the distance. 83 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:03.400 So you talk about it being highly unusual and and 84 00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:06.479 not maybe the predicted outcome. 85 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:09.879 Can you point your finger? 86 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:11.919 I mean you mentioned a couple of things, maybe injuries 87 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:14.840 or whatever, But is it? 88 00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:18.000 Is it more than that? Is it matchup problems? Is it? 89 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:22.560 Why is why is this that is so on its ear? This? 90 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:24.800 This this year's playoffs, or at least this round. 91 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:27.920 It's a great question. It's one that everybody in the NBA, 92 00:04:27.959 --> 00:04:31.120 I think, is asking themselves and asking each other. Why 93 00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:33.160 are we having so many upsets all of a sudden. 94 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:35.240 I mean, we also have one of the rare times 95 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:37.839 that we've got a six seed versus a seventh seed, 96 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:40.959 which is you know, Minnesota versus Golden State. Now they 97 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:42.759 were not the normal six and seven seed, and the 98 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:45.600 West was very tightly packed. So the difference between being 99 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:48.040 the two and the three who they beat versus being 100 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:50.920 the six and seven was a difference of a couple 101 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:52.720 of games and the course of the regular season the 102 00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:55.399 standings were that tightly packed. So some of this is 103 00:04:55.480 --> 00:04:58.240 just parody. We are in an age of parody in 104 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:01.680 the NBA, So there's going to be more volatility, more 105 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:05.160 variants and the three point shot, of course, and we 106 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:07.800 are in this you know three point era, this you know, 107 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:10.959 this is this three point revolution where you know, a 108 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:15.040 twenty point lead, the twenty point deficit is not is 109 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:17.040 not as hard to come back from as it once was. 110 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:20.560 You know, so teams, you know, teams are never out 111 00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:23.920 of it, it seems like. And there are no super teams. 112 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:26.920 You know, when I talk about parody, it's not just oh, well, 113 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:30.519 everybody is within a few degrees of each other. It's 114 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:32.639 that you don't have the dominant teams in the past 115 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:35.720 where you know, the like the Warriors of twenty seventeen eighteen, 116 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:38.680 where Kevin Durant and Steph Curry and Draymond Green and 117 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:41.199 Klay Thompson, you've got four future Hall of Famers, the 118 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:43.439 Miami Heat when Lebron was there with three future Hall 119 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:44.000 of Famers. 120 00:05:44.439 --> 00:05:45.360 Teams aren't built that. 121 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:47.519 Way right now, and it's engineered that way. The NBA, 122 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:50.680 over the course of the last several collective bargaining agreements, 123 00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:53.199 has made it harder and harder for teams to just 124 00:05:53.279 --> 00:05:56.800 stack up max players, to stack up superstars, and so 125 00:05:56.839 --> 00:06:01.199 as a result, most teams have won. And then maybe 126 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:03.160 you've got a co star, or maybe you've got another 127 00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:05.199 guy who's like a second to third tier type star, 128 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:09.199 but they're not as dominant as in the past, and 129 00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:12.240 so it does leave less margin for error. 130 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:16.639 Uh, you know, this is a this is a strategy 131 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:21.639 the NFL employed this kind of parody and and and 132 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:23.959 clearly it's not necessarily something that's been a part of 133 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:27.879 the NBA. Was it a strategy designed because of how 134 00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:31.279 successful the NFL is that all these teams And do 135 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:34.199 you think ultimately that you know this is this is 136 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:35.879 a good strategy. Is it going to work? It's a 137 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:39.040 parody going to work? Are people going to be okay 138 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:42.639 with I mean, I know how I feel. I kind 139 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:45.319 of like it personally, but I'm just curious what what 140 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:48.160 your thoughts are on this, this strategy and its long 141 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:49.279 term impact. 142 00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:53.160 The people. And when I say people like at the 143 00:06:53.160 --> 00:06:55.680 public media whatever, have a kind of a love hate 144 00:06:55.720 --> 00:06:59.120 relationship with this kind of core thing about the NBA, 145 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:00.920 which is at the NBA has always been a leg 146 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:04.279 of dynasties, right the Showtime Lakers and the eighties Celtics, 147 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:09.480 the nineties Bulls, the Shaq and Kobe Lakers, the Spurs, 148 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:13.240 you know, the Warriors of the late twenty tens. The 149 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:15.160 NBA has always been built in dynasties, going all the 150 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:17.240 way back, of course, to the Celtics in the sixties. 151 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:22.079 And usually you've got a team that everybody else is chasing, 152 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:24.480 or sometimes a couple of teams that are battling for supremacy, 153 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:27.759 and everybody else is kind of on the sidelines watching, 154 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:31.560 and people will rail against that and say, oh, you know, 155 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:33.439 there's only two or three teams that ever have a chance, 156 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:36.120 and you know, you know it's not fair, it's all 157 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:39.199 these other teams. And then you get financial issues and 158 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:41.600 market size issues. Oh well, you know, the small market 159 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:44.360 teams can't keep up. They can't pay the same luxury 160 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:48.519 tax bill that the big team, big market teams can pay. 161 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:53.000 So you know, people rail against dynasties, but people watch dynasties, 162 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:55.879 and if you love or hated dynasty, it doesn't matter 163 00:07:55.879 --> 00:07:57.040 if you love it or hate it, as long as 164 00:07:57.079 --> 00:07:59.639 you're watching. And I think the polarizing aspect of a 165 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:02.480 dynasty he is part of what's made the NBA interesting, 166 00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:05.240 at least when it comes to April, May June. But 167 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:07.839 for the rest of the season, you know, you need 168 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:10.199 markets to all be tuned into their teams. You need 169 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:13.000 people to be engaged, you need fans to be interested 170 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:15.360 and you need everybody to feel some sense of hope. 171 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:19.480 You need, you know, fans in Indiana and Memphis and 172 00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:22.680 Salt Lake City of course to feel like they've got 173 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:25.720 a shot too. And if it feels like only New 174 00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:30.480 York or LA or Chicago can ever win, that's a problem. 175 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:33.200 So quickly you back up. In twenty eleven, the NBA 176 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:35.919 had a lockout that you may remember, and you know, 177 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:40.200 it cut way into the season. It threatens the entire 178 00:08:40.200 --> 00:08:44.600 season as a whole. And during that lockout, Adam Silver, 179 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:47.480 who was then the deputy commissioner now the commissioner, he 180 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:49.759 had a phrase he used so many times it's embedded 181 00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:51.840 in my in my head, which is that he wanted 182 00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:54.240 a league and David Stern of course too. They wanted 183 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:57.559 a league where thirty teams, if well managed, could compete 184 00:08:57.559 --> 00:09:00.440 for a championship. That was the phrasing they used. What 185 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:04.600 we have in today's NBA fourteen years later is effectively 186 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:08.279 that like, if you're well managed, you've got a chance 187 00:09:08.279 --> 00:09:10.320 because nobody can just soak up all the high end talent. 188 00:09:11.639 --> 00:09:15.519 Well to your point about the small market teams, you know, 189 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:17.840 feeling like they have a chance to win, and you know, 190 00:09:17.879 --> 00:09:18.679 I'm here in Salt Lake. 191 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:20.039 I can tell you right now we know we're not 192 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:20.480 going to win. 193 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:23.159 Like we're in the middle of rebuild, so I know 194 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:26.679 that's not gonna happen right now. And of course the 195 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:30.279 lottery is coming up here on Monday, and I know 196 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:34.559 folks out in Utah are super excited about the odds 197 00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:38.840 and the opportunities that are placed before us. How do 198 00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:42.000 we manage expectations as a fan base out here with 199 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:44.720 with what happens in the lottery and where where you 200 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:46.759 you know you talk can only go as low as five, 201 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:52.639 But you know what's what's a reasonable expectation about what 202 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:56.720 could happen in this lottery on Monday? 203 00:09:58.039 --> 00:09:59.919 Yeah, I mean one quick aside as we talk about 204 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:02.000 small markets. If you look at who's left the eight 205 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:04.840 teams that are left right now, Oklahoma City small market 206 00:10:04.840 --> 00:10:06.159 team and favor to come out of the West, and 207 00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:09.399 they're playing against Denver. Denver's a smallish market. You know, 208 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:12.399 the Warriors are playing the Timberwolves. Warriors obviously a big market, 209 00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:15.360 but Timberwolves, small market, Calves and Pacers are playing each other. 210 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:17.320 That's two small markets. And then of course next to Celtics, 211 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:19.720 two big markets, but there's a there's a very good 212 00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:22.879 small market representation here right now. Of course, both the 213 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:25.480 Nugget Nuggets and Bucks have both won championships within the 214 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:28.360 last four or five years. So when it comes to 215 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:31.320 the lottery, you know, look, it's it's a lot of 216 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:33.799 ping pong balls bouncing around. There's there's there's nothing you 217 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:36.679 can hope for other than you know, you know, prayer 218 00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:38.600 to the basketball gods and the ping pong ball got 219 00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:41.919 to shine on you. But if you don't get Cooper Flag, 220 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:44.320 which is what everybody's hoping for, who's in the lottery. 221 00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:47.480 My understanding, and I'm not a draft expert, but this 222 00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:49.399 is a pretty good draft. It's a fairly deep one, 223 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:51.840 and I think anybody who you know, has a top 224 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:54.600 four or five pick is probably going to come away 225 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:56.919 pretty happy with the talent that they're able to draft. 226 00:10:57.159 --> 00:10:59.799 We also know historically that even in New Year's when 227 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:02.720 we say that one through five are not all going 228 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:06.080 to be All stars or superstars or Hall of famers, 229 00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:07.799 it just never works that way. There are always some 230 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:10.039 misses no matter no matter how much scouting, no matter 231 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:13.840 how much sports science has applied, uh, there's there's always 232 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:16.320 going to be miss fires. So everybody in the lottery 233 00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:18.559 is certainly hoping to get Cooper Flagg. He's the one 234 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:22.320 can't miss. Other guys, uh, you know, Dylan Harper, Race 235 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:24.919 Bailey and some others you know, look really good and promising, 236 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:28.000 but you know, I'm I'm in no position to tell 237 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:30.320 you that that you could be you know, you know 238 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:32.120 that if your future would be set with one of 239 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:35.360 those guys, I think the key thing for the for 240 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:37.919 jazz fans would be. You know, you've got a very 241 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:40.279 smart front office with Danny Ainge and Justin Zanik. You've 242 00:11:40.279 --> 00:11:43.759 got whatever this you know, draft pick and whatever this 243 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:50.399 lottery outcome, you know who delivers, and a lot of picks, 244 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:52.360 still a ton of draft picks. They're sitting on a 245 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:55.360 as draft capital as trade capital, and so that there's 246 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:58.039 a lot of different directions they can go here. And 247 00:11:58.159 --> 00:11:59.960 I know it's always hard to tell people to be patient, 248 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:02.159 but they really only are a couple of years removed 249 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:04.600 from blowing up. You know, the Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert team, 250 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:06.200 So it takes a while. 251 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:12.879 He's kind of staying here in Utah. Will Hardy's the coach. 252 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:17.000 His contract was extended. You know, I think a lot 253 00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:20.159 of people here locally are high on will Hardy, and 254 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:23.000 I think very impressed with him. What's kind of the 255 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:26.360 perception of him around the NBA maybe from a national perspective. 256 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:30.559 He was really highly regarded as an assistant in Boston, 257 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:34.120 even you know, before he was hired in Utah, and 258 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:36.039 it's one of the reasons they pounced and hired him, 259 00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:39.480 of course, And I think nothing in the last couple 260 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:41.720 of years has has changed that opinion. I think I 261 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:44.440 think there's a great deal of respect for him. I 262 00:12:44.440 --> 00:12:47.399 think everybody recognizes that he's going through, you know, a 263 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:49.759 rebuild where you know, the best you can do is 264 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:53.639 develop your young guys, be competitive, win a few games 265 00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:56.080 here and there. It's very clear that organizationally, they've set 266 00:12:56.120 --> 00:12:58.559 this up to not win because you know, they're in 267 00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:00.799 a tanking mode there. You know, want to call it rebuilding, 268 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:02.200 you want to call it something else, it's fine, but 269 00:13:02.679 --> 00:13:04.519 you know, it's very clear what they've been trying to do. 270 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:07.080 They want the high picks, and that's fine. That is 271 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:09.159 a you know, I don't want to say tried and true, 272 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:12.360 because it's not always it doesn't always work, but it is. 273 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:14.759 It is a common form of building in the NBA. 274 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:17.840 So when you sign up as a coach for a 275 00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:20.200 team in that mode, you know what you're getting yourself into. 276 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:22.759 And I appreciate the fact that the Jazz gave him 277 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:26.720 an extension because it's two things. It is a show 278 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:29.399 of faith in him, but it is also kind of 279 00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:32.919 a recognition that, you know, look, we know your your 280 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:36.320 your career and your win lost career when lost record 281 00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:38.440 has taken a beating because of the position we have 282 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:41.519 put you in as an organization, and so you know, 283 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:44.799 you you deserve that kind of you know, extension, that 284 00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:48.240 kind of long window to prove yourself and to be 285 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:50.960 there for the turnaround, not just for the teardown. 286 00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:52.039 Yeah. 287 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:54.879 I think Doc Rivers recently mentioned he said, hey, that 288 00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:58.039 record when you're when you're you're you know, taking a 289 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:00.519 bullet for the team, should stay with the team when 290 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:00.879 you leave. 291 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:05.279 It shouldn't. It shouldn't follow you around, It should stay there. Yeah. Yeah, 292 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:06.639 I thought that was interesting. 293 00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:13.399 So I've I had a conversation earlier today about the 294 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:18.279 Celtics and now here here there. You know, I could 295 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:21.200 you could you could certainly argue a team that's a 296 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:24.559 favored to win the whole thing, and of course they 297 00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:27.399 won it last year and then they're, uh, they're some 298 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:29.960 of their top players went and played in the Olympics 299 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:32.679 and it was a shortened off season, and you watch 300 00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:36.039 them where you know, they've been a very efficient three 301 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:38.720 point shooting team during the season and been been horrible, 302 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:42.480 uh here in this series against the Knicks, And is 303 00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:45.080 it is it just bad shooting do they? Is there 304 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:48.679 such a thing as like fatigue, you know, from and 305 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:51.600 the fatigue goes all the way back to last off 306 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:53.919 season where you don't have a normal off season, you 307 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:57.960 don't have enough time to maybe make that full recovery 308 00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:00.440 before you go into the season, or or is it 309 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:02.679 just that the Knicks are playing great defense? I mean, 310 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:05.559 is there I guess, is there any validity to getting 311 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:08.159 fatigued from a previous season where you're a champion and 312 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:10.639 you play late into into the summer. 313 00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:16.639 Broadly speaking, when teams go to the finals year after 314 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:19.440 year after year and have these long runs in the spring, 315 00:15:19.639 --> 00:15:22.200 I think there is you know, a sort of attrition 316 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:25.480 and a fatigue that can build up over time and 317 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:28.480 causes injuries and all that. I don't think that's what's 318 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:33.159 happening here right now? The Celtics are generally healthy, and 319 00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:36.879 they had a pretty great regular season, not as many 320 00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:39.279 wins as a year ago, but most championship teams lose. 321 00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:41.360 You know, you're you know, win at a slightly less 322 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:45.240 rate the next year. They're fine. They're also their core 323 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:47.679 guys are young or they their two most important players 324 00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:50.000 are are you know, still young and in their prime? 325 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:55.879 And Tatum and Brown? What's happened in these first two games? 326 00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:59.480 All the tracking data indicates that they are that they're 327 00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:03.759 Their shot quality was super high, right, and then by 328 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:06.720 shot quality, we mean you know, not hard, not not 329 00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:07.279 well guarded. 330 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:07.480 Right. 331 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:09.320 They had a ton of open shots. For the most part, 332 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:13.399 they're missing open threes. Missing open threes is something that 333 00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:16.120 happens because there's high variance in three point shooting for 334 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:20.440 most people not named Steph Curry, and you know it 335 00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:22.480 when it goes bad, sometimes it goes really bad, and 336 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:25.440 sometimes there's no explanation for it. Now, Jalen Brown's had 337 00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:28.799 some injuries that maybe have affected his lyft a little bit. 338 00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:33.240 I don't think Tatum has that excuse. They've just missed 339 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:35.320 a lot, and then they've consisted on continuing to take them. 340 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:38.759 So you know, this is one of those cases where 341 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:43.240 the Celtics are so all in Joe Mizulaz coaches so 342 00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:45.320 all in on a three point strategy that when it 343 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:49.440 goes bad, they really think themselves. And it's not that 344 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:52.559 they're incapable of doing other things. They've got plenty of 345 00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:55.480 guys who with you know, quality mid range games, that 346 00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:58.879 can play in the post and can attack the rim. 347 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:03.080 And for whatever reason, and maybe some of it is 348 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:04.480 just that, you know what, both these games they had 349 00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:07.440 twenty point leads. You get a twenty point lead, you 350 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:09.880 stop attacking, you get a little lazy. It's easier to 351 00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:11.559 shoot a three than it is to drive into the 352 00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:16.000 paint and take some contact. And so you know, again, 353 00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:19.359 like they've been good enough to have twenty point lead 354 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:22.480 in both of these games. So it's it's not like 355 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:25.640 there's something fundamentally wrong. You can't say it's fatigue if 356 00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:27.519 they if they're good enough to build a twenty point league, 357 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:29.400 and you can't say it's just a three point reliance. 358 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:31.440 If they've been good enough to build a twenty point lead, 359 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:34.039 it's what they do with that lead and what happens 360 00:17:34.039 --> 00:17:39.000 in third and fourth quarters lately, and it's it's hard 361 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:41.599 to explain. I think there's some tactical stuff here that 362 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:42.400 they need to clean up. 363 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:46.960 Last question for it, let's go here. Who do you like? 364 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:48.359 Who do you like coming out of the East? Who 365 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:49.400 do you like coming out of the West. 366 00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:52.559 Before the season, I said it was going to be 367 00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:56.359 Oklahoma and Boston with the Thunder winning. And my rationale 368 00:17:56.359 --> 00:17:58.480 for the Thunder winning was just, you know, they're younger 369 00:17:58.519 --> 00:18:00.759 and deeper, and I figure the celt we're gonna you 370 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:03.039 know that there would be some actually fatigue by the 371 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:04.680 time they got back to the finals again, especially with 372 00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:08.119 the Eastern Conference being a little stronger. You know, as 373 00:18:08.119 --> 00:18:10.599 we sit here right now, you know that's not looking 374 00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:12.920 as great. Like Oklahoma still looks like they're they're a 375 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:14.359 good bet to come out of the West. But the 376 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:16.279 Celtics are, you know, on the ropes, and if they 377 00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:18.440 lose tomorrow, they're basically done because no one's ever come 378 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:22.160 back from three zero in the NBA. I'll stick with 379 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:26.119 Oklahoma and Boston just for the sake of consistency, but 380 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:27.599 I don't have a whole lot of confidence in the 381 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:30.319 Celtics right now. And if they do go down. You 382 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:33.000 know now, it's it's probably you know, it could very 383 00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:36.160 well be Nicks versus Pacers in the conference finals. And 384 00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:39.279 I mean that was a toss up. I mean, these 385 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:42.240 teams are both very capable, but I'll stick with Boston 386 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:43.119 Oklahoma for now. 387 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:45.680 All right, great stuff, Thank you for joining me. Really 388 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:49.599 appreciate your time. Enjoyed the conversation. Howard Beck from the Ringer, 389 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:52.559 Thank you. Have a great day, Howard, My pleasure you two. 390 00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:58.400 All right, listen up, homeowners, Spring is in the air, 391 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:01.279 the birds are chirping, and the flowers are blooming. Is 392 00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:04.920 your home and backyard sanctuary ready to enjoy the coming season? 393 00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:08.480 Go check out the new Daybreak Home and Garden Show 394 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:12.079 coming to the ballpark at America First Square May sixteenth 395 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:14.839 through the eighteenth. 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