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Speaker 1: When your old career gives you lemons. Throwing some ice,

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mix in some.

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Speaker 2: Vodka in color.

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Speaker 1: A podcast from the Mac of All Trade Studio in

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Fairport and driven by Victor Chrysler Dots jeep Ram.

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Speaker 2: It's Billified, the Bill Moran Podcast. Well, hello and welcome.

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Thanks for getting your pot on. Thank you for telling

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a friend. That's how we spread the word about the

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pirate ship. A lot of local radio talk lately on

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the podcast here and there, and I did want to

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continue in a little bit but even talk further about radio.

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And I couldn't think of anybody better than BJ Shay

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because BJ has was part of Brother Weeze's world twice

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and then went off to Seattle and just exploded and

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just built an empire out there, and is uh, you know,

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currently living his best life. Is that the right way

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to say it? I don't know what. I love that.

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Speaker 1: That's what the kids are saying.

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Speaker 2: Live in my best life, living my best life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I tell everybody that I was kicked

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into retirement, kicked into and kicked into my dreams because

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I didn't want to leave radio when it happened. And

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I don't know if I completely left radio but it's

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been almost a year since I've had a job, and

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you know, Billy, what I found is not a lot

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of call for a sixty five year old, cisgendered, heterosexual,

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Caucasian broadcaster. For some reason, nobody is really banging down

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the door to get more old old white guys to

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give their opinions. I don't understand it. I feel like

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the country just doesn't have enough old white guy opinions.

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Speaker 2: I know, I'm with you. I'm with you on that.

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The old white guy opinion was very popular. We had

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a run, beach, we had a run.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we had a man. And of course, just like

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my life, my entire career has been you know what,

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you're almost ready. Oh wait, now you are, but we're

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moving on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well that's it. That's yeah, that's very that's very funny.

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But you so we's uh. I'm going to say, I

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think to the audience abruptly retired. And I said on

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my episode yesterday that these decisions and a company and

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it was it's iHeart that he was working for. I said,

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there's so many layers there that any decision that seems

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to have come abruptly has not. It was four or

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five months in the making, and from what I understood

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from some insiders that I that still connect with me,

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because the great thing is there's somebody in Seattle that

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will talk to me once in a while because I

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was on their national rock platform, so I did like

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eighty stations for them, and I'd have to be all

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these meetings and stuff, and uh, I think it was

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the kisw st Eve Well anyway, doesn't yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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no no no no, no, yeah, not Steve Miggs. That's

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your guy, that was your old pride. No no, no,

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this is a paps. This was somebody way up in

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I heeart. Well maybe it was where anyway.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's not I probably don't know that.

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Speaker 2: That's my bad. But this guy would kind of tip

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me off to some things that were happening, and from

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what I understood, they wanted we used to stay and

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do his music show on the weekends through the end

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of the contract, which was coming up at the end

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of this year.

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Speaker 1: And that's what we said on his bro He deluded

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to that on his final.

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Speaker 2: Show, okay, and then he he did say that that

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was he wasn't going to do it, and he was

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very upset. We did talk briefly after his final broadcast,

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and he says he's going to do a podcast at

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some point, and he will do. He'll he'll reveal all

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at some point. But I just think that the people

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don't understand that these things. Well, there's two to me, Beach,

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and you can speak to this very well. There are

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two things that play here. One is business. Business is

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cold and has no emotion. It's just about making money

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or not making money. Was it Weez's fault that the

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station was not making money? No, he was near retirement himself.

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He was you know, he had it. I think he

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stayed longer than he intended to stay, but maybe I'm wrong.

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So I don't think there was anything really there. But

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the rest of the station, the ratings were horrible. The

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place was like basically a dumpster fire, and so you

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got to make a change. But the emotional side, and

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especially what we did and do is talk to people

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and make connections. And that's hard because you have become

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people's friends. And I think that I tried to look

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up some radio stats. I still think currently in the

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United States, and I don't know when this is from, up,

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around ninety two percent of Americans listened to the radio

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at least once a week. Thirty one percent tune in Daly,

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which is down from thirty seven percent in twenty twenty three.

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So we're going back a few years on that data,

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maybe even lower now, because do.

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Speaker 1: You know what the problem with that is? Really?

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Speaker 2: What's that?

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Speaker 1: The problem with that is nobody in the advertising world

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believes those numbers. I don't know if they're true or not.

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I don't even not a statistician, but what I do

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know nobody believes it. Listeners, younger people don't believe that,

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and a lot of advertising agencies, big companies, they don't

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believe that. It is very frustrating. It's very very frustrating

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that if that number is true, that somehow, some way

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radio can't get people to believe it because my gosh,

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the price that radio charges for advertising, and if those

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numbers are true, the ritual investments insane, right, But that

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really is the big problem. They can't get people to

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believe that that number is true, that that that statistic

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is true.

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Speaker 2: So I'd like to go back at some point and

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hit so many your time with Wie's But let's keep

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on this sort of trajectory of what happens in radio.

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I mean, there's so many layers, and this is why,

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so they knew.

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Speaker 1: I have a great story that won't get me in

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trouble because it happened so long ago, but it will

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illustrate your point about the ridiculous nature of how they

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don't plan and how they are also so covert and

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ridiculously secret that they will hurt people's lives. They will

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do really dumb things. And this still goes on in radio.

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But this happened to me many years ago, so it

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won't get me in trouble in any current situation or

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even in anything that happened in the last twenty years

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of my career, because this happened more than twenty years ago.

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But this is very typical for radio, how they operate. Well,

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we'll get to that if you want to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'd like to, because I'm just saying that

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I think that they knew they were making this move

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back around May. That's my guest only because if it's iHeart,

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probably any radio company, they're going to want to do

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a music test, which takes time to find out what

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lane we go in if we're getting out of the

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spoken word genre, and then I think a lot of

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people were very hurt because of personality as big as

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We's and as such a part of the fabric of

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the community. It would be like Letterman saying, I'm retiring

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in a year, and we have time to prepare, and

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you do things, you practically have a parade for the person.

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I mean, I know some people go, wow, We's's old news. Okay, maybe,

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but he wasn't, and he, to me he deserved that.

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He did too much for the community. I think the

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problem BJ corporate radio is very big and runs very lean.

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When I left, I was doing business reports for the

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news station and helping produce Brother Weez's show, a talk

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show with John Detulio, and eighty stations around the county.

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I mean, it's just the way it is. And if

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you look at the guys in charge here, they're in

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charge all the way down to New York City practically

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along the Thruway in terms of markets and managing and

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all that. And I just think they don't have the

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manpower and they don't have the people who know Wes

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that well anymore to put something together. I really do.

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I don't know that it's a lack of caring. Certainly

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I guess I always say this, so maybe I'm contradicting myself.

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If you will, if you want to, you will. This

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is what I always say. If you want to, you will.

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So if they wanted to, I guess they would. But

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there was no I mean, it should have been planned.

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This hasn't been a secret to somebody that his contract

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was going to end. And that's the part that I go, boy,

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you really miss something. And oh, by the way, could

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have made a ton a ton of money, right, yeah,

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I mean really.

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Speaker 1: I was in that same situation with kisw for Odyssey

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where it was the last year of my contract in

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twenty twenty three, and it was the same thing. You know.

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It was they they were in a situation where they

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were like, we have to make a change. Uh. It

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was more financial in my case, whereas I don't know

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what the real issue is with why they couldn't do

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what they wanted to do and keep WE'SE. I don't know.

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I mean, we can you and I can guess, but

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I don't know why they decided to let We'se go.

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But for me, they were they it was financial. I

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got to talk to my general manager because he retired

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shortly after I left the station. So we got together

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for lunch and I'm you know, I put together. I said,

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I want to know everything, tell me everything. I'm not

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going to be mad at you. I just want to know.

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It's really good to know how things went down. And

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they you know, what they did, though, to their credit, was,

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you know, they gave me enough lead time and said, look,

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here's what we're going to do and it's not going

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to include you. And that gave me enough lead time

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to you know, to figure it out. They let me

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stay on air, which I thought was really bizarre because

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normally you don't want someone on here. You want to

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you want to force them to almost have like a noncompete.

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Speaker 2: That was a really really I thought, unique situation for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, the company, I'll tell you the local people,

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it says why I always love KISW. I don't know

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if corporate wanted them to do this, but I know

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that local management said we're going to do right by

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this guy. We're not going to enforce this. In Washington State,

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it's really hard to enforce a non compete. They're really

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unenforceable in most cases. And in my case, it would

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have been unenforceable because they just said we don't want

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you anymore, and then Washington State will say, well, he

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gets to go do what he wants. You said goodbye.

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Because management's mediocre. I APPROACHIP for anybody in radio. If

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you're a manager, don't tell anybody make up another job,

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because being a manager in radio is lower than somebody

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that sweeps you basically crap out.

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Speaker 2: Of a zoo.

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Speaker 1: You are not good. Radio management is the lowest form

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of life form there is, and you're not talented. I

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don't care. If you're a CEO in radio. Don't tell

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anybody you're a CEO in that business because again, anybody

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can be You can get a range tanks to do

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your job, and that's just you see things like this.

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This is a managerial failure on every level. I mean,

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his company on every level failed. He is a Hall

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of Fame broadcaster who gets in the Hall of fame

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these days in radio from Rochester, from Rochester, right, I mean,

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I mean, oh, it's this is a massive failure. And

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I can excuse corporate because look, the CEO of his

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company maybe shouldn't know how great wheeze is, because most

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radio managers don't know the the just the history of

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somebody being just an amazing talent in a town like Weeze,

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but local knows nobody. This is a massive failure. And

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this is what from radio radio. Just I get. Radio

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has its challenges, but it's always had challenges with bad management.

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They don't have people that go to managerial training programs

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that actually teach them how to be managers. They take

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people who should never interact with artists, and that would

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be a salesperson. A salesperson should never interact with an artist.

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It is the wrong thing to do, and they put

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them in charge. A salesperson should never be in charge

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of anything because they don't care about anything but convincing

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people to do what they want. That's not a good manager.

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Speaker 2: They're great at.

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Speaker 1: Going out and that's what radio does. They'll get some

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program director who's basically just a computer and they don't

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know how to talk to people either. And radio continues

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to make this mistake. They don't have casting directors, so

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they always put people together who don't not want to

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do radio together. This person will be great with this person. Now,

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they have no chemistry. How do you not see that?

238
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And it's the business is bereft of good management. Well, sorry, Billy,

239
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I'm off. It's just I'm ranting about how bad management

240
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is in the industry.

241
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Speaker 2: I hit that nerve. I hit that nerve. Beach, Oh yeah,

242
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I mean, can you think of a good manager?

243
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Speaker 1: Well, I liked that I've worked with in my career.

244
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It's how bad it is.

245
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Speaker 2: I thought Stan Maine was great when I when I

246
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worked with them, I don't know how he was when

247
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when if you when you worked with it.

248
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Speaker 1: You know, I'll tell you right now. Stan was one

249
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of those guys that he had to he had to

250
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make the adjustment because Stan and I both were cut

251
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from the same cloth. This is how you do radio,

252
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and then we's upended both of our worlds, right and

253
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to Stan's to Stan's credit, Stan was like, Okay, I'm

254
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going to make the adjustment. And you don't find a

255
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lot of human beings that can do that. Stan mean

256
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was a person that could actually say, you know what,

257
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I'm not afraid of this. I will roll with this

258
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because a lot of program directors would be afraid of

259
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weez because they have to look like it's them reverence,

260
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It's me that's doing this. I'm the one that's creating

261
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the success. Stan realized, there's no way that I can

262
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sell that. I'm in charge of the entire success of this.

263
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Weez is a huge part of it. But Stan was

264
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really good at making the adjustment and then everything else

265
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that happened on the radio station outside of WIZ. Stan

266
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was a master master, you know, orchestrator of all that. Yeah,

267
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I agree with you. Stan was one of the good ones.

268
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought Stan was good. And then the late

269
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John Thomas if you ever interacted.

270
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Speaker 1: With him, I never got to work with John no

271
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j T.

272
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Speaker 2: He was one of my absolute favorite guys. Uh so

273
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two I had two good managers. Then there were you

274
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know the other ones I I turned into the carpet salesman.

275
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Speaker 1: Did you ever work with a carpet salesman? H yeah,

276
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the guy who the guy who told me Wes was

277
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horrible and and now he's selling carpet somewhere. I'm just like,

278
00:14:24,159 --> 00:14:25,720
you gotta be Why do I have to listen to

279
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,000
a guy? But I'm gonna wah, oh my god, I

280
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know exactly, Yeah, you know who it is. It's like

281
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he's literally was a carpet salesman. Oh, this guy's telling

282
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me no, the biggest success in Rochester shouldn't be on

283
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,879
the radio. And then two days later I'm walking the ball.

284
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He's asked me if I want Burber or Shag get

285
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away from me, man, please get away from me with

286
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this ridiculous.

287
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Speaker 2: Name that was. That's very funny. I forgot about it.

288
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Speaker 1: Yes, I won't mention him by name, but he's a

289
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complete lovely individual and I hope his carpet sales are well.

290
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Speaker 2: The the It's just funny because I did think I

291
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had somebody come to me earlier in my career, who

292
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is maybe in managing still today, and said to me,

293
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you could be a GM. Let me train you to

294
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be a GM. You don't want to go in afternoons

295
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and die somewhere. And I said no, and I blew

296
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off the meetings and I wouldn't go because I didn't

297
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want that. Now, I also wish I hadn't pushed so

298
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hard against what I from. Whence I came, so to speak.

299
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I came from, you know, educated parents who had master's

300
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degrees and doctorates and you know that sort of thing.

301
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And I just wanted to be the rebel. I wanted

302
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:45,799
to not have to tell you know what I mean

303
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all these different things. So it was just very interesting

304
00:15:49,279 --> 00:15:52,840
to me to see that, and I think it was

305
00:15:52,919 --> 00:15:56,120
weez over the years, and then especially when I was

306
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part of his show, that you could just kind of

307
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be yourself and start to share your opinions and your insights.

308
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And I had learned early on, and I don't know

309
00:16:04,679 --> 00:16:07,720
about you, I had the I still think this was

310
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,000
one of the greatest times in radio for me. I

311
00:16:11,039 --> 00:16:13,679
sat out of here at Saint John Fisher College here

312
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,720
in Rochester now University, and I worked midnight to six

313
00:16:18,039 --> 00:16:23,679
on rock station at Poughkeepsie, and I got bored playing music,

314
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so I knew no one was, like, nobody important was

315
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listening in the middle of the night. So I just

316
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opened the phone speech and I did Who's up and

317
00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:32,440
why at three o'clock in the morning, and I called

318
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pay phoes and I did all the shit. And it

319
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was just people looking to feel like they had a

320
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friend or they mattered and they were heard. And that's

321
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what I realized radio was. And to me, that's the

322
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greatest thing is I loved people. I was so curious

323
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,039
about people. I loved people. Why did they do certain things.

324
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I'm not a strip club guy, but I had gigs

325
00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,919
at strip clubs. I wanted to know what the fuck

326
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,200
this guy was coming every day to see Ginger who

327
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,200
was never going to sleep with him, and he brought

328
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her flowers once in a while. It was like, what's

329
00:17:07,759 --> 00:17:10,359
going on in the head. I want to know? I

330
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:14,680
want to know. I found it so so interesting, really interesting,

331
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and and that was like it was a playground for

332
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,319
me to do all that stuff. But then, you know,

333
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,720
with the cool thing with Weez was like, because I

334
00:17:23,799 --> 00:17:25,880
was ranimal at first, he would make fun of me,

335
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,160
and I go, yeah, he's right, you're trying too hard

336
00:17:30,599 --> 00:17:34,839
because authenticity has become it's now like the buzzword. You know,

337
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,799
ELF's the podcast is gonna work. It's got to be authentic.

338
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And it's yeah, it always was. It always was. We

339
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just we just denied it.

340
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Speaker 1: And whatever if somebody, if somebody tells you they're authentic,

341
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you're like, no, you don't.

342
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:55,720
Speaker 2: Know, because yeah, it's the dumbest thing in the world.

343
00:17:56,079 --> 00:17:57,079
That's the dumbest thing.

344
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Speaker 1: But We's one of those pibolics. He's like the leaders,

345
00:18:01,079 --> 00:18:04,559
you know, like he's like in treaties, I don't want

346
00:18:04,559 --> 00:18:07,519
to lead, son, but you gotta lead for you doing fans.

347
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:09,960
We's was the talent who never believed he was a talent.

348
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He never thought he was an artist. He and I

349
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,279
had so many fights about this because I really consider

350
00:18:14,319 --> 00:18:16,920
myself a performer, which is another problem that radio was.

351
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,400
They don't consider it a performing art. They've ruined the

352
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,319
industry with this management mindset. That and some guy named

353
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,000
Leslow put out this Facebook message about how radio is

354
00:18:26,039 --> 00:18:28,680
not in art and I took great exceptions that, And

355
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,480
I know Laslo he used to work in my company.

356
00:18:30,839 --> 00:18:34,440
And I'm just so tired of people who are not

357
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,759
artists there saying this business is not about art. It's

358
00:18:37,759 --> 00:18:40,680
like it's a performing art. I mean, radio once convinced

359
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,160
this country we were being invaded by Martians. That's how

360
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:47,839
good of an art it won. So We typifies why

361
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,799
it's a great art, because he is perhaps the best

362
00:18:50,799 --> 00:18:53,119
storyteller of this industry has ever seen. You and I

363
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,200
both know, on or off the air. Once he starts

364
00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:01,119
spinning a yarn, he captivates whoever is around him. He

365
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,319
just doesn't know his own strength. I'm not an artist, bro,

366
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,160
I'm like, I'm not going to fight with you about this.

367
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:05,759
Speaker 2: Yes you are.

368
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,160
Speaker 1: You have so much unbelievable talent. You just don't want

369
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,319
to know it for whatever reason. I don't care, just

370
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,559
keep being you. But he is a great, great talent. Again,

371
00:19:15,599 --> 00:19:18,839
another reason why this is such a travesty. He could

372
00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:21,119
have been anything. He could have gone anywhere, you know, Billy,

373
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,799
we had opportunities to go to New York and Los

374
00:19:23,799 --> 00:19:26,680
Angeles when we he and I were working together. I

375
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,000
put air checks and things, you know, And but he

376
00:19:30,039 --> 00:19:32,160
loved Rochester and he was just like, look, I want

377
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,400
to stay here. This is my town. I love this place.

378
00:19:35,799 --> 00:19:41,400
I'm I'm successful here. And he still transcended Rochester. I

379
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,319
mean that Woodstock video that he made, you know, was people.

380
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,000
I put that on my page recently, just said hey,

381
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:49,720
I want you guys to know a bit about the

382
00:19:49,799 --> 00:19:52,200
man that was my mentor and who means so much

383
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,880
to me. My listeners were like, oh my god, this

384
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,160
guy is so cool. I wish I could have listened

385
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:57,519
to him.

386
00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:58,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was.

387
00:19:58,599 --> 00:20:00,720
Speaker 1: He was a great talent. And that's why it's so

388
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,799
sad if this is how he goes out.

389
00:20:04,079 --> 00:20:07,640
Speaker 2: I'm working on something that i'd like to do where

390
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,799
I go out and I would come to Seattle even

391
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:16,400
and film just conversation radio days stories like this, And

392
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:17,720
one of the guys I want to sit down with

393
00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:20,039
who I talked to once and told me a fuck

394
00:20:20,079 --> 00:20:22,759
a great story about radio. He had been in TV.

395
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,960
He gets in radio, the management, his manager calls up

396
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,720
and says, hey, can you provide peanut butter? He wants

397
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,559
peanut butter in the morning? Can you provide peanut butter?

398
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,319
And the radio is like, what, we don't do that here,

399
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,960
That's not what we do. And they're like, this is

400
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,720
in craft services. This is but like you see the

401
00:20:41,799 --> 00:20:46,000
disparity how they treated talent like talent in TV. It

402
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,599
would be like, what do you want? We're gonna make

403
00:20:47,599 --> 00:20:49,680
sure you're happy, we want you to be at your best.

404
00:20:49,799 --> 00:20:52,079
We're looking for the best from you. How can we

405
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,279
help pull the best out? How do we make you comfortable?

406
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,920
How do we do that? Radio? It's like, fuck, it's

407
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,599
you and her or him and him and you and

408
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,640
oh it's like, oh my god. And when you look

409
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,799
at it, it is it is absolutely insane. And that

410
00:21:06,839 --> 00:21:09,279
does make me laugh. It's funny. I hadn't really thought

411
00:21:09,279 --> 00:21:11,200
of it that way, Beach and I got I love

412
00:21:11,279 --> 00:21:13,880
that you're calling this guy the carpet salesman. He was

413
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,039
such a douche. I just have to say this. I've

414
00:21:16,079 --> 00:21:18,359
told this story a few times. I've never used his name.

415
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,240
I don't know if it was prior or after. You know,

416
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,920
I had to be prior to you. He had inserted

417
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,839
himself because they stam Maine put me in afternoons and

418
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,759
then was sort of pushed out to Austin. And so

419
00:21:33,799 --> 00:21:39,039
I'm doing afternoons and the carpet salesman becomes the guy

420
00:21:39,079 --> 00:21:43,119
in charge. Now he comes in and he would do

421
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,480
he was part of a show in Boston, which was

422
00:21:46,519 --> 00:21:49,759
a pretty big show in Boston, and he would play

423
00:21:49,759 --> 00:21:51,559
bits for weez you need to do stuff like this,

424
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:56,480
and it was like drunk magnum Pi, like magnum p.

425
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,799
I wasn't even on the fucking air at the time.

426
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,400
So that's what did this guy's doing. And then he

427
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,000
decides that he was trying I didn't realize this. Here's

428
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,160
another one. He was trying to push me because at

429
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,480
the time I might have been twenty four, twenty three,

430
00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:13,000
twenty four years old. He trying to push me to overnights.

431
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,240
He wanted Uncle Roger, who did overnights, to come and

432
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,160
do like afternoons, and Roger wasn't coming off overnights because

433
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:19,880
he didn't want to deal with management. He didn't want

434
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,200
to see people during the day, and he.

435
00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:24,039
Speaker 1: Just like, yeah, you know what, Roger was perfect for

436
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,200
right where he was. There's no way he wanted to

437
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,200
interact no the idiots. So he was smarter than all

438
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:30,960
of us. He was smarter than all of us.

439
00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:33,799
Speaker 2: So this guy decides that he's going to extend Dave

440
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,759
Kane to four and then he's going to do four

441
00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:39,400
to six, and then I was due to do six

442
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,880
to nine. He used the radio as a dating service.

443
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,920
He would oh oh, he dated Collin number nine. He

444
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,400
would invite the women up. They would get he'd tell

445
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,079
them they'd have to get there because I think the

446
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,599
station closed at five thirty. I think the office the

447
00:22:55,599 --> 00:22:58,000
front office. So he said you got to get here

448
00:22:58,039 --> 00:23:01,160
before five thirty. And then he would ask people to

449
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,960
go up and check out the woman and if she

450
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,720
was oh, lovely, somewhat decent, you could he would come

451
00:23:09,759 --> 00:23:12,200
out and see them. But if not, he had a meeting,

452
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:17,359
something popped up, he couldn't get to them. Blah blah blah.

453
00:23:16,559 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 1: This is the car kind of card leader.

454
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, this is I can't tell you that leader.

455
00:23:24,039 --> 00:23:27,519
I had another one, Beach. I played strip poker or

456
00:23:27,559 --> 00:23:29,720
strip trivia and a woman would come up and she

457
00:23:29,839 --> 00:23:32,559
was just a listener and she was pretty open, even

458
00:23:32,599 --> 00:23:34,920
on the radio at times, saying my husband travels a lot.

459
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,400
And she talked, she danced the line, but saying how

460
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,119
lonely she would get. She calls me once and says,

461
00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:45,279
I just left your boss at a and she names

462
00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:48,240
the hotel he had banged, and she's going on about

463
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,119
how terrible he is, and she's telling me this whole story,

464
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,640
and he walks in the fucking studio and you know

465
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,720
how like the calls, yeah, I'm playing music, but the

466
00:23:56,799 --> 00:23:58,920
little speaker. Oh god, it was an awful day for me.

467
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,039
But but at the same time so entertaining. And it

468
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,079
tells you so much about these people, so much about

469
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,440
these people that there's this internal happiness that they just

470
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,960
don't have, and so they got to then shit on

471
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,319
everybody else. And that's not what you need to be

472
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:13,759
in life.

473
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 1: Radio's best people are its talent, because they're artists that

474
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,880
want to make the world a better place. Well, you

475
00:24:21,039 --> 00:24:24,200
know Wes, you know how Wees is at the end

476
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,960
of the day. And you know, his show was his

477
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,839
heart coming through trying to make the world a better place.

478
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,680
A lot of people may have had complaints about the

479
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,839
fact that was too political, but Weise was like, dude,

480
00:24:36,839 --> 00:24:39,079
I am doing what I can do to give back

481
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,000
and make the world a better place. That's who he's

482
00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:43,359
always been, right, and that's the heart of an artist,

483
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,359
which is why he and I will always fight. It's

484
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:46,920
like we's you are so an artists, you have the

485
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,480
heart because that's what artists too. Artists want to just

486
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,880
use whatever their gifts are to make the world better.

487
00:24:53,519 --> 00:24:55,519
You know. And sure, whether you agree with this politics

488
00:24:55,599 --> 00:24:57,839
or not, you can't disagree with where his heart is.

489
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,759
And you know, like he said in the way Stock video,

490
00:25:01,079 --> 00:25:04,440
he never grew into this conservative person who was bitter

491
00:25:04,839 --> 00:25:07,720
and stopped having a heart. He just maintained that he

492
00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:10,599
was the same hippie that he always was with those

493
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,680
ideals and can't we all just get along and love

494
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,359
each other? I mean, yeah, God, that's a horrible credo

495
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:21,039
to live by, isn't it. Whereas radio management, those are

496
00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:22,880
not the best of the best. There's a great story

497
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,599
which I love the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy at

498
00:25:25,599 --> 00:25:27,720
the end of that book, at the end of the

499
00:25:27,759 --> 00:25:32,759
multiple books, they basically leave a planet and leave all

500
00:25:32,799 --> 00:25:36,160
the salespeople behind, all the marketers, all the salespeople, because

501
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,160
they go you really add nothing to humanity. You know,

502
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,880
there's mental illness and there's mental unhealthiness, and it gets

503
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,519
conflated a lot in our society, and so the idea

504
00:25:45,599 --> 00:25:50,400
that people confuse the two. Angela said, Look, environmental stuff

505
00:25:50,559 --> 00:25:53,440
is huge in radio because it's a highly stressful industry.

506
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,240
Even if in fact everything's going right, if everything's going perfect,

507
00:25:56,319 --> 00:25:58,599
you still have a highly stressful job on the levels

508
00:25:58,839 --> 00:26:01,680
of air traffic controller. And my therapist did research and

509
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,319
found out about that, and I was very happy that

510
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,680
he did because he was a military PTSD specialist, and

511
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,640
so with that level of stress, it's already a high

512
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,920
level of stress that most human beings don't ever experience

513
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,799
at their jobs. That's if it's good. When radio does

514
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,759
bad stuff, then the stress level is just beyond human tolerate,

515
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,559
like it's it's it's it's abusive. When the stress level

516
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,960
is beyond and beyond just the normal level that radio has.

517
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,680
And she wanted to bring attention to it. So yes,

518
00:26:31,039 --> 00:26:33,759
she believed it, just like you do ability that. Oh yeah,

519
00:26:33,799 --> 00:26:38,119
they there needs to be better, better work in understanding

520
00:26:38,279 --> 00:26:41,599
how to treat your employees better than co corporations do.

521
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,519
The line, the secrecy, the not caring, the building of bention,

522
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,599
not caring about people's families or whatever. That has a

523
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,839
massively adverse effect. And another reason why I'm pissed at

524
00:26:51,839 --> 00:26:54,079
the nab ra a b or whatever, because it's a

525
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,559
huge talking point. It's a real thing. What happens in

526
00:26:57,559 --> 00:27:00,720
this country today with all this horrific stuff is due

527
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:06,119
to environmental bs done by unthinking corporations and also a

528
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,400
horrible government, and it's affecting human beings. This is not

529
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,440
the way we should be. We shouldn't be living like this.

530
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,480
Therapists will tell you we're not meant to live like this.

531
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,799
This we're in fight or flight mode all the time,

532
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,480
and we're not on the Serengeti. There's not a tiger

533
00:27:20,519 --> 00:27:22,960
trying to kill us. Yet we're at a state a

534
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,200
lot of us where we feel like there's a tiger

535
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,559
chasing us and we're going to lose our life. That's insane.

536
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,319
Since we're the most safe part of being an American

537
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,039
you could ever be, It's the safest time to be

538
00:27:32,039 --> 00:27:34,960
an American. The History Channel to research on that. Yet

539
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,839
people like, yeah, and that is environmental and it's a travesty.

540
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,720
And radio was definitely playing its part and contributing to

541
00:27:43,759 --> 00:27:44,599
that negative effense.

542
00:27:44,839 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you did do a not a mental health show,

543
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,440
but you did. What was the show that you started

544
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,720
that did go national for all? Odyssey? Was it about

545
00:27:52,759 --> 00:27:54,759
suicide or suicide prevention?

546
00:27:55,519 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: It's a show called I'm listening and I want to

547
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,240
give credit where quick is do Dave Richards, who is

548
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:03,640
perhaps you know, one of the best program directors in

549
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,799
the history of this bringing business and now he's the

550
00:28:05,839 --> 00:28:09,440
vice president for Odyssey, he got he could you know,

551
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:15,200
I think he was really inspired by my story, which

552
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,119
was the story of my daughter Sarah, who had an

553
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,119
ex boyfriend died by suicide. And you know, he worked

554
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,519
with me every day as we tried to navigate this

555
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,160
in our family, like what are we going to do?

556
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,400
Because a lot of times suicide, you know, guilt of

557
00:28:29,599 --> 00:28:32,279
survivor guilt is such a huge thing that then some

558
00:28:32,319 --> 00:28:36,039
of those survivors will die by suicide too. And I

559
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,400
was so like, oh my god, and it wasn't nobody

560
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,319
really knew what to tell you. Therapists didn't really have

561
00:28:40,359 --> 00:28:43,039
a lot of information to help you with a person

562
00:28:43,359 --> 00:28:47,599
that was a suicide basically as a survivor of somebody

563
00:28:47,599 --> 00:28:51,960
who died by suicide. And so Dave was so inspired

564
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,119
by this, and boy, you talk about I mean the

565
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,640
day just was a brilliant orchestrator and a guy that

566
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,920
deserves so much credit for my success. I wouldn't be

567
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,839
anything if not being able to who have worked with him.

568
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,880
And he's like, hey, bj I want to do this.

569
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,880
I know how much this means to you. Would you

570
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,240
like to host the show. I want to make a

571
00:29:08,359 --> 00:29:10,559
national show. One day a year. We will do a

572
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,119
national show on all of our stations and we will

573
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,960
just get celebrities, guests, whatever. And boy, oh boy, did

574
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,960
everybody want to partake in at Musicians and athletes. So

575
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,039
many people wanted to speak out about it because they

576
00:29:23,119 --> 00:29:25,519
all were touched by this all at some point in

577
00:29:25,559 --> 00:29:27,799
their life, whether it be family members or them selves

578
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,279
dealing with, you know, trying to attempt suicide. And great

579
00:29:32,279 --> 00:29:34,920
people like Michael Phelps. You know you've got people on

580
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,000
that level. You know all sorts of musicians and Lizzo

581
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,440
and I'm just starting to think few that were a

582
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,559
lot of rock people, you know, and it was wonderful.

583
00:29:46,039 --> 00:29:49,519
It's now a gigantic, huge national thing and Carson Daley

584
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,200
is now the host. I guess being replaced by Carson Bailey,

585
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,799
that seems fair. I think he had I think he's

586
00:29:54,799 --> 00:29:57,640
got a little bit more played than it. So we

587
00:29:57,799 --> 00:30:00,799
get started. We started it in Seattle, and I'm proud

588
00:30:00,799 --> 00:30:02,559
of it, Billy. It's one of the best things I

589
00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:06,039
have done in my career. It was wonderful to start

590
00:30:06,039 --> 00:30:08,880
a show to start a conversation about mental health, especially

591
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,079
for men. Men don't want to even talk about it

592
00:30:12,079 --> 00:30:15,319
because you appear a week if we talk about mental

593
00:30:15,319 --> 00:30:15,960
health in any way.

594
00:30:16,119 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, to address that, I do want to give back

595
00:30:20,519 --> 00:30:22,880
to the Carson Dally thing because there's a connection to

596
00:30:23,079 --> 00:30:28,880
Carson Daily and then to wee'z and you. I have

597
00:30:29,039 --> 00:30:31,359
had somebody come up to me recently who is a

598
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,839
podcast listener, and I've talked about going to therapy and

599
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,640
said I'm going and thank you for talking about it.

600
00:30:38,319 --> 00:30:41,359
But over the years I had talked about being molested

601
00:30:41,359 --> 00:30:45,319
as a kid, and the number of letters. I would

602
00:30:45,359 --> 00:30:49,839
get like handwritten letters sometimes even in the age of

603
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,680
email and all, I would get these notes from people going, man,

604
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,039
I was like, you know, I just thought I was.

605
00:30:57,359 --> 00:30:59,640
It's one of these things where I really believe that

606
00:30:59,799 --> 00:31:01,599
we make a mistake, and this was something that we

607
00:31:01,799 --> 00:31:04,640
did very well. I think we make a mistake that

608
00:31:05,039 --> 00:31:08,319
you know, if let's say a kid admits that to

609
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,640
the parent hate so and so touched me and molested

610
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,400
me whatever, and the reaction is so big that you

611
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,400
feel like, as a kid, you can't process is that

612
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,480
you've caused this. And I made my mom cry. My

613
00:31:18,559 --> 00:31:20,799
dad's all pissed off now and oh my god, this

614
00:31:20,839 --> 00:31:22,440
person they're gonna kill him, and what are they? What

615
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,720
did I do? And I remember when I told this

616
00:31:25,759 --> 00:31:28,119
story the other day, Sammy got left on the school

617
00:31:28,119 --> 00:31:30,519
bus and I'm producing the show and I get a

618
00:31:30,519 --> 00:31:33,559
call heys, we's there. I go, no, well, we have

619
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,759
his son. He stayed on the school bus and didn't

620
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:38,640
get off when he got to school and he was asleep.

621
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,079
So I call wa dab, He'll be fine, don't worry

622
00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:43,440
about it. And then all of a sudden, I go, well,

623
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,119
I think they're calling Dorian because he knew what the

624
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,640
reaction would be. But if you did, don't over If

625
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,799
we don't overreact to things, I think we can navigate,

626
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,039
help navigate them, especially for young kids early on in life.

627
00:31:56,519 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: But the.

628
00:31:58,519 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 2: Going back to the Carson Daily thing, I think that's

629
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,960
a Howard lapedis fine. And Howard was a good friend.

630
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,640
Oh yes, I'm pretty sure the late Howard Lapedes found Yes,

631
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:11,279
the late the late.

632
00:32:11,119 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: How great Tom Green, Jimmy Kimmel, Oh my god, Howard

633
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,319
Lapedies was responsible for so much and also one of

634
00:32:21,359 --> 00:32:23,240
his biggest mistakes is he would let me do compy

635
00:32:23,319 --> 00:32:24,000
is comedy club.

636
00:32:23,839 --> 00:32:25,279
Speaker 2: The only stuff that Howard.

637
00:32:25,359 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: But yeah, Howard was really good at spotting talent.

638
00:32:28,759 --> 00:32:32,359
Speaker 2: That's funny. Well, uh, Beach, I loved talking to you.

639
00:32:32,599 --> 00:32:35,319
I would love to have you on every once in

640
00:32:35,359 --> 00:32:36,480
a while if you've got time.

641
00:32:36,599 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would love to. Man, if you're gonna do

642
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,359
any mental health stuff, yes I am. I'm on fire

643
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,960
for that. I think it's a big, big subject and

644
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,759
we can, you know, Bill and I can help because

645
00:32:46,839 --> 00:32:50,240
men don't want to go or do it and think

646
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,319
it's weak, and it is to me one of the

647
00:32:53,359 --> 00:32:56,480
best things that humanity has ever done is the behavioral sciences.

648
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,559
I know there are bad therapists out there. I get

649
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,000
it's like anything else you're gonna have to keep. Okay,

650
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,160
there are really bad therapists out there, but behavioral science

651
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,039
is tremendous. It is this to me. It just shows

652
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,440
humanity at its best. What they've done with behavioral science

653
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,759
and learning how we tick. It's fantastic.

654
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.

655
00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: I'll talk about anytime you want.

656
00:33:16,279 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna stay in touch with the beach.

657
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,440
Maybe we launched it as its own podcast.

658
00:33:21,559 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, Hey, what what am I doing?

659
00:33:25,079 --> 00:33:28,279
Speaker 2: Not the time? We could do it just like this?

660
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:33,240
Yeah all right, yeah, well I'll reach out to you

661
00:33:33,359 --> 00:33:34,759
and let's see if we can do.

662
00:33:34,839 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: I love that, Billy, I'm all about it. I love that.

663
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,160
Later this month, actually, there's a guy in Seattle it's

664
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,960
also podcasting about mental health, and uh, you know, I'm like, sure,

665
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,599
I'll come on your podcast all again, because usually men

666
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,519
don't talk about it. And so I'm a man that

667
00:33:49,759 --> 00:33:51,440
is known in my area and they're like you do

668
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,200
you go there? Yeah, And it's so good for the

669
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,640
men to hear that because we we we suffer in silence.

670
00:33:58,839 --> 00:34:02,200
We really do. And there's a guy named Terrence Reel

671
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,119
I'll just leave you with who talks about the psychological patriarchy,

672
00:34:05,119 --> 00:34:08,320
which is different than the regular patriarchy. But basically, men

673
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,000
have been given such a raw deal that both men

674
00:34:11,079 --> 00:34:14,280
and women in society have contributed to. We are capable

675
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,239
of so much more, but we have just been put

676
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,519
in this box that says, no, this is how you are.

677
00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:21,679
You can show anger, you can show lust. Those are

678
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:23,199
the only emotions you get to have as a man.

679
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,440
And we're lett to believe it's just oh, it's wiring

680
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,199
well like, oh, I guess this is just how we're made.

681
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,519
But in reality that's so not true. And I love

682
00:34:33,559 --> 00:34:36,239
people like Terrence Reel and other authors that have come

683
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,000
out and said, hey, guess what, everything you know about emotions,

684
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,519
you know they're completely wrong and mental health and so yes, Billy, let's.

685
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 2: Do it, brother, all right. I love it. I love it. Bjsha,

686
00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:50,840
thank you for coming on. I love I. It's such

687
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:52,960
a fan, and it's such a fan over the years.

688
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 1: So I right back at you, Billy, I really you know,

689
00:34:55,559 --> 00:34:57,519
especially I love hearing some of the stuff you did

690
00:34:57,599 --> 00:35:00,400
early in your career. I don't think I knew that awesome.

691
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,880
I love the late night stuff for that. What are

692
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:03,800
you up? What do you do?

693
00:35:03,599 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: What are you doing at this outrund? Yeah? Who's up?

694
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,280
And why? All right, Beach, I'll talk to you soon then.

695
00:35:09,159 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: Thanks brother.

696
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 2: All right, there he goes BJ shay and we will

697
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,920
close it out. I love it when BJ gets all hot.

698
00:35:17,039 --> 00:35:20,960
That's my favorite, very thoughtful. Right. It's not like anger

699
00:35:21,079 --> 00:35:25,239
just to be Angry's anger for a purpose? Uh for

700
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,199
brother weez. It's nice to be important, but it's more

701
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,000
important to be nice. I'm Bill Moran. We'll see you tomorrow.

702
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: I will hold to you. Don't know what to do,

703
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:37,079
I tur