Speaker 1: All right, what's good.
Speaker 2: It's five time on a Thursday afternoon, about ten minutes
Speaker 2: past the hour of two o'clock.
Speaker 1: It is snowy, it is cold.
Speaker 2: According to forecast, the snow will let up in about
Speaker 2: one hour from right now. But our resorts are getting
Speaker 2: stomped and we are getting stomped down here in the
Speaker 2: valley and the benches, which is of course good for
Speaker 2: the folks that enjoy such things. But as it is
Speaker 2: every single day, it's gonna have you along for the ride.
Speaker 2: My name is Spence check its I host this radio program.
Speaker 2: That young man is Porter Larson. He produces it, does
Speaker 2: a lot of other things for too.
Speaker 1: Not just a producer.
Speaker 2: He books the guests and sometimes comes in with hot
Speaker 2: takes off the top rope. Maybe we'll get some hot
Speaker 2: takes from Porter today on a jam Pack Thursday show.
Speaker 2: The Utah Jazz will begin the second half of the
Speaker 2: NBA season taking on Oklahoma City coming up tomorrow, but
Speaker 2: the NBA is back out of in full force. Utah
Speaker 2: Hockey Club will be back in action on Saturday, but
Speaker 2: of course the hockey world is focused on the Four
Speaker 2: Nations Final tonight.
Speaker 1: Talk about that game.
Speaker 2: It is in Boston, a great domestic hockey city without
Speaker 2: the hockey history that Montreal has, but the diehard hockey
Speaker 2: fans out.
Speaker 1: In full force.
Speaker 2: We'll have the Four Nations Final matchup for you here
Speaker 2: on this radio station after the Craig Smith Coaches Show tonight,
Speaker 2: which will be in at six o'clock. So a lot
Speaker 2: of eyes, a lot of the ears, a lot of
Speaker 2: attention on the world of pro hockey tonight, so we'll
Speaker 2: get you ready for that game. We'll talk about that
Speaker 2: game on the program and then you can hear it
Speaker 2: on this little old radio station. RSL Cocky Caff Champions
Speaker 2: Cup nil nil your final down in Costa Rica. They'll
Speaker 2: be back in action this time for MLS play against
Speaker 2: San Jose on the road on Saturday. San Jose has
Speaker 2: a new player, a new striker. His name is Chico
Speaker 2: Arongo played here last year, so RSL will have to
Speaker 2: deal with Chicho on the other side coming up on Saturday,
Speaker 2: and then back in action Lake two of the Cocky
Speaker 2: Caff Champions Cup coming up next week here in Salt Lake.
Speaker 2: The home opener for RSL is against Seattle a week Saturday,
Speaker 2: So a little soccer on the program today, kind of
Speaker 2: a quiet time right now in the world of pro football.
Speaker 2: A trend is taking place in the world of college football.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about today as Texas and usc
Speaker 2: have announced that they are the latest programs to cancel
Speaker 2: their spring games. Is that something that we're going to
Speaker 2: see kind of widespread across the world of college football.
Speaker 2: I believe that the answer to that is Jeff Steve
Speaker 2: Sarkeesian got a new contract today. He will be paid
Speaker 2: very handsomely after a great, great stretch last year in
Speaker 2: college football.
Speaker 1: We will give you the latest with.
Speaker 2: The conference commissioners meeting, namely Greg sank and Tony Petiti
Speaker 2: because it was excuse me, only the SEC in the
Speaker 2: Big ten, no Big twelve rep, no acc rep, no
Speaker 2: group of five rep. A lot of rumors and some
Speaker 2: things that we actually do know tangibly coming out of
Speaker 2: that meeting. So, of course, as the home of the
Speaker 2: Utes in a college football market, we have one on
Speaker 2: college football at the time. The Utah State Aggie's absolutely
Speaker 2: curb stomped San Jose State last night. Utah stayed in
Speaker 2: the middle of a really nice college basketball run. Do
Speaker 2: some college basketball on the show today, have a great
Speaker 2: college basketball guest as we are high speed ahead to
Speaker 2: March and so busy on a Thursday with a good
Speaker 2: guest list for you guys. Starting out with Andy Larson
Speaker 2: covers the Utah Jazz for the Salt Lake Tribune. Do
Speaker 2: some jazz, We'll do some NBA hoops, We'll do some
Speaker 2: maybe a little RSL at the time allows for that guy,
Speaker 2: Andy Larson. Today, Ken Pom Ken Pomeroy. I had a
Speaker 2: nephew last year asked me what is a Ken Pom
Speaker 2: because he was watching college basketball coverage. And if you're
Speaker 2: watching a college basketball coverage, anyone in the know will
Speaker 2: reference the work of Ken Pomeroy and his website is
Speaker 2: Kenpom dot com. So if you're watching Sports Center or
Speaker 2: a college basketball show and you hear them say, well,
Speaker 2: they're thirty first in the Ken Pom, which is what
Speaker 2: BYU is right now, that's because of the work of
Speaker 2: our guy, Kenmroy, one of the most respected college basketball
Speaker 2: minds out there. We're gonna bring Ken in today to
Speaker 2: talk some Utah hoops, to talk some BYU hoops, Utah
Speaker 2: State Aggies as well, and then big picture college basketball
Speaker 2: with Ken Pomroy on the program. Am and El Hassen
Speaker 2: makes his time for return of the show for your
Speaker 2: NBA Daily Assists today. I Mean is a guy I've
Speaker 2: known for a long long time. He was in the
Speaker 2: Knicks front office, the Sun's front office.
Speaker 1: He's been in media now for about fifteen years.
Speaker 2: Has a number of different podcasts, does a bunch of
Speaker 2: work with the Lebtard group down in South Beach there.
Speaker 1: So we'll bring a mean on today. Then we'll do
Speaker 1: a little.
Speaker 2: Sports court with our guys from the law firm of
Speaker 2: Handy and Handy. So a busy show on a Thursday afternoon,
Speaker 2: Andy Larson, Ken Pomeroy, Amino Hassen, little sports court today,
Speaker 2: we'll say good night and time for the Craig Smith
Speaker 2: Coaches Show coming up at six o'clock tonight. And then
Speaker 2: at seven o'clock tonight you'll hear the remainder of the
Speaker 2: Four Nations Final matchup between Canada and the US. Andy Larson, Ken,
Speaker 2: pomroy A, Mino Hassen, he Spence check at all of
Speaker 2: you the great listeners, Guy Porter Larson on a Thursday afternoon,
Speaker 2: what you have a Four Nations Final hot take right
Speaker 2: out of the gates.
Speaker 1: I don't think so.
Speaker 3: I don't think I pay enough attention to Canada or
Speaker 3: USA hockey to give you an actual hot take.
Speaker 1: Here's here's one.
Speaker 3: There're gonna be two breaks during the game that are
Speaker 3: gonna go too long. I'm gonna get sidetracked. Uh, and
Speaker 3: then I'm gonna forget it's happening. But I'm gonna dial
Speaker 3: in for the end of it. Hopefully, hopefully Team USA
Speaker 3: pols it down.
Speaker 2: That is not a hot take. That is a prediction
Speaker 2: that will absolutely happen.
Speaker 3: I listen, and I know I'm gonna have to get
Speaker 3: used to it. We've got hockey in the market now.
Speaker 3: It is still the one thing.
Speaker 1: I know. It's a me problem.
Speaker 3: I know it's an ADHD problem, but it's it's almost
Speaker 3: like the All Star Game we saw on Sunday, minus
Speaker 3: the bad basketball. Every game where you take those breaks
Speaker 3: and for someone like me, man, yeah, you forget, you forget.
Speaker 3: You're watching hockey, not tonight though not tonight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I understand.
Speaker 2: My higher thing with any sport I watch is it
Speaker 2: has to be on the DVR, and so I turn
Speaker 2: off all my alerts, okay, and I let the game
Speaker 2: kind of run. It helps with hockey, yeah, and it
Speaker 2: helps with everything I can get through an NBA game
Speaker 2: in like an hour. Get through an NFL game and
Speaker 2: like an hour and a half. Or college football. Unless
Speaker 2: I'm attending a game, I do not watch it live
Speaker 2: at home. I am on the DVR because I cannot
Speaker 2: stand the breaks and the commercials are it'd be one
Speaker 2: thing that the commercials are entertaining.
Speaker 1: They're not. They're just boring and they're too long.
Speaker 3: Well, and part of me like feels a little guilty
Speaker 3: for it, Like, oh, you know what if I was
Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty when I couldn't re fast forward through
Speaker 3: a baseball game. Well, in nineteen sixty they sat down
Speaker 3: and watched a baseball game and didn't have an hour
Speaker 3: of commercials during it, right, So I don't know, we're
Speaker 3: we're adjusting it.
Speaker 2: Well, in in nineteen sixty, we didn't have seventy five
Speaker 2: different things to take our attention away from whatever else
Speaker 2: we're watching at every single moment. Oh it's a commercial, Twitter, Instagram,
Speaker 2: social media. Oh it's a commercial email. I'm gonna flip
Speaker 2: over and watch Severance for a minute because I losted
Speaker 2: it exactly. It's ridiculous, man, Like, we are a society
Speaker 2: that has an attention span issue. And I'm not judging
Speaker 2: because I'm one of them. But we try to stay
Speaker 2: focused on this show for you guys, four hours every afternoon.
Speaker 1: Except I just messed all that up.
Speaker 2: Yeah you did. Thanks a lot of pout, all right.
Speaker 2: Andy larsh is our first guest right out of the gates.
Speaker 2: But before we get to Andy, on a Thursday, courteousy
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Speaker 2: we are a young hockey market. We are a market
Speaker 2: that is learning to embrace this new sport. We certainly
Speaker 2: have a lot of hockey fans that have lived here
Speaker 2: for a long time because hockey is not new to
Speaker 2: this market. Shout out to the Golden Eagles Salt Palace
Speaker 2: way back in the day. Obviously the Grizzlies. A lot
Speaker 2: of people here have watched hockey for a long time.
Speaker 2: NHL hockey is what's new here and it's been a
Speaker 2: lot of fun. I think it's still a remarkable accomplishment
Speaker 2: that the Smith Entertainment Group pulled off with just basically
Speaker 2: weeks of notice. You know, we had Gary Bettman on
Speaker 2: our show prior to the announcement of the club actually
Speaker 2: coming here. Gary stop by the commissioner of the NHL,
Speaker 2: and he dropped on us the tidbit that the first
Speaker 2: conversation he had with Ryan about this whole thing was
Speaker 2: in March, and they were able to pull it off
Speaker 2: by like may I mean, it was wild and while
Speaker 2: the learning curve certainly has been a little bit uncomfortable
Speaker 2: at times, and that building is not built for hockey yet,
Speaker 2: it's a really fun thing and a really cool experience
Speaker 2: for me as a media member to be able to
Speaker 2: cover this sport that I've watched since I was a
Speaker 2: kid and been around growing up in the Northeast, which
Speaker 2: is kind of like the hockey footprint domestically. It's been fun,
Speaker 2: and the Utah Hockey Club I think has a lot
Speaker 2: of exciting things ahead of it. It's a very young team,
Speaker 2: it's a front office that's savvy and smart. It's an
Speaker 2: ownership group that has shown they're willing to spend, and
Speaker 2: they have draft capital and they have cap flexibility. In
Speaker 2: a way, it's kind of a lot like the Jazz,
Speaker 2: I would say the Hockey Club. The Utah Hockey Club
Speaker 2: is further along in their rebuild than the Utah Jazz,
Speaker 2: but in fairness, they've been doing it five. This is
Speaker 2: like year five of Bill Armstrong's kind of project, and
Speaker 2: he's been very clear to let everybody know like temper
Speaker 2: those expectations because we got a young group and they
Speaker 2: expedouted it with a couple of different signings with some vets.
Speaker 2: Sergachev namely Mikhel Sergachev brought in. He was a Stanley
Speaker 2: Cup winner. He's still a young player, but a really
Speaker 2: good locker room guy that has shown he has a
Speaker 2: chance to be one of the leaders of this group
Speaker 2: for a long long time. So the world of hockey
Speaker 2: right now is receiving attention that a lot of people
Speaker 2: feel like is very unprecedented, and I think it's really
Speaker 2: interesting because US Canada in hockey is not a new thing,
Speaker 2: and US Canada playing for big time championships and medals,
Speaker 2: that's not a new thing. We had the US Canada
Speaker 2: gold medal game here in two thousand and two for
Speaker 2: the Salt Lake Olympic Games. I remember I was working
Speaker 2: as one of the venue managers for the Salakeuyce Center.
Speaker 2: We had short track speed skating, which is of course
Speaker 2: a Polo Antonoo sport, who is kind of the biggest
Speaker 2: star of those games.
Speaker 1: We had figure skating in our venue.
Speaker 2: Of course, the Russian judge scandal that rocked the world,
Speaker 2: but the ability in the chance to go see USA
Speaker 2: Canada in hockey in the gold medal game was one
Speaker 2: of the most exciting things I've ever experienced. And you
Speaker 2: can already feel that tonight is something substantial now.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I've listened all morning the couple of different hockey podcasts
Speaker 2: we had Neil Smith on yesterday as the Four Nations
Speaker 2: face off final is tonight. Reminder you can hear it
Speaker 2: on ESPN seven hundred following the Craigsmith Coaches Show. And topically,
Speaker 2: it's reminded me a little bit of the way that
Speaker 2: people talk about soccer when the US actually has a
Speaker 2: decent team, or US Mexico, which is the rivalry that
Speaker 2: our US men's national team has, it's more intense than
Speaker 2: any other whenever there's like a big time seminal soccer event.
Speaker 2: The World Cup back in the day, I think it
Speaker 2: was ninety four was in the United States, which kind
Speaker 2: of led to the implementation of Major League Soccer, which
Speaker 2: just turned thirty or is turning thirty this year. The
Speaker 2: World Cup cycle, which is in our region coming up
Speaker 2: not too long from now. Everybody's talking about this is
Speaker 2: the seminal moment for soccer and what does it mean
Speaker 2: for soccer moving forward. I don't know what the four
Speaker 2: nations face off means for hockey moving forward, but I
Speaker 2: think it's interesting to listen to people break this down
Speaker 2: and PK Suban, who's been on the coverage for ESPN
Speaker 2: he's live in Boston, took an opportunity this morning to
Speaker 2: really take the NBA to task and utilize pro hockey
Speaker 2: as kind of a template for you as the consumer.
Speaker 2: If you actually want to watch a game, and you
Speaker 2: actually want to watch a sport where the players give
Speaker 2: a rip about their craft, you cannot find it more
Speaker 2: intensely then you will find it in the world of
Speaker 2: professional hockey. And the great thing about a matchup like
Speaker 2: tonight is you have players playing for the flag and
Speaker 2: the country and not necessarily a paycheck or their brands.
Speaker 2: It's one of the things that still makes the Olympics
Speaker 2: great right whenever an Olympic cycle takes place, whether it's
Speaker 2: winter game, summer games, it's fun to watch people who
Speaker 2: clearly are playing and performing for the flag that they're representing,
Speaker 2: as opposed to, you know, just trying to make another
Speaker 2: buck or trying to get more followers or influence on
Speaker 2: your social media channels and if we're honest, that's what
Speaker 2: pro basketball has become. And so you know, we'll see
Speaker 2: if this talking point, this selling point that everybody who's
Speaker 2: excited for the four Nations face off final tonight actually
Speaker 2: comes to fruition if there are any NBA fans out
Speaker 2: there that are disenfranchised by a product that employees employees
Speaker 2: that don't take their job seriously, watch what happens tonight.
Speaker 2: I mean, hockey players play through injuries. They play like
Speaker 2: the Kochuck brothers were both interviewed after the news came
Speaker 2: down that they had some upper body injury issues and
Speaker 2: they're both are like, well, yeah, we're hurt, but we're
Speaker 2: still playing coming up on Thursday.
Speaker 1: We wouldn't miss this.
Speaker 2: And I do think there is an absolute lesson that
Speaker 2: the NBA could take from the NHL when it comes
Speaker 2: to commitment to your craft, understanding why you do what
Speaker 2: you do. You do what you do for the people
Speaker 2: who support you, namely the consumers who buy tickets and
Speaker 2: the consumers who watch your games. Hockey players take that
Speaker 2: seriously and they always have and they're My experience with
Speaker 2: them is they are, for the most part, tremendous human
Speaker 2: beings that are good members of the community and care
Speaker 2: about what they do and want to do what they
Speaker 2: do at the highest of levels for the people that
Speaker 2: are tuning in, and I think it makes tonight really
Speaker 2: really interesting or really exciting.
Speaker 1: You know, Boston is a great hockey city.
Speaker 2: Domestically, we don't have the history of hockey that Canada has.
Speaker 2: Canada is the winninges hockey country there is. I do
Speaker 2: think they'll expand the four nations moving forward now that
Speaker 2: they've seen how awesome this is. I think Germany's gonna
Speaker 2: be involved. Russia on paper should be involved, but hey,
Speaker 2: you know, we'll leave that to the side. You guys
Speaker 2: understand why Russia has not been invited and probably won't
Speaker 2: be for a little while.
Speaker 1: But this should be a fun one tonight.
Speaker 2: So Connor Hellabuck has thought to be the best goalie
Speaker 2: in the world right now, he's the US goalie and
Speaker 2: he'll be between the pipes. Both of these teams have
Speaker 2: great goalies now. Jordan Binnington. He's a bit of a
Speaker 2: polarizing guy, and I wouldn't be stunned by the way
Speaker 2: if the two goalies fight each other tonight. I don't
Speaker 2: think we're going to see like three fights right off
Speaker 2: the jump, like before we're even seeing any skating. Because
Speaker 2: when it comes to like a Stanley Cup final or
Speaker 2: a final like this, where a trophy is on the
Speaker 2: line and it's best first best, your best players cannot
Speaker 2: spend time in the penalty box. That's why you don't
Speaker 2: see a ton of fighting when there's actually something on
Speaker 2: the line tangible to play for. So I'd be surprised
Speaker 2: if either the Kachuck brothers drop their gloves.
Speaker 1: They need to be on the ice.
Speaker 2: But Jordan Biddington was the goalie for the Saint Louis
Speaker 2: Blues in twenty nineteen, and that year he went into
Speaker 2: Boston and led the Blues to a game seven win
Speaker 2: and a Stanley Cup. So Jordan Bidnington knows what that
Speaker 2: crowd is like tonight. I'll be anxious to see what
Speaker 2: the crowd looks like. As far as the split between
Speaker 2: Canada fans and US fans, the ticket prices have absolutely
Speaker 2: skyrocketed as a result of the attention that this tournament
Speaker 2: has received. Now, according to vivid Seats, the average listed
Speaker 2: price for the four Nations face Off Championship game has
Speaker 2: skyrocketed by one hundred and thirty seven percent since the
Speaker 2: US and Canada first faced off on Saturday the fifteenth,
Speaker 2: jumping from nine hundred and ninety dollars. This is your
Speaker 2: average ticket price. That's what it was on the fifteenth.
Speaker 2: As of today, your average ticket price is two thousand,
Speaker 2: four hundred and fifty dollars. There are rumors that very
Speaker 2: good NHL players have inquired about getting tickets and they've
Speaker 2: been turned away. So it will be a sellout. It
Speaker 2: will be loud, it will be intense. If you've never
Speaker 2: watched hockey tonight, I would tune in and watch this game,
Speaker 2: and if you're driving around town running errands, make sure
Speaker 2: to keep it here so you can hear it the
Speaker 2: intensity in hockey games like this. There's something I've said
Speaker 2: this earlier in the season when I was interviewing Neil
Speaker 2: There's something about like hockey documentaries. There are a lot
Speaker 2: of great ones about like enforcers. The Avalanche Red Wings
Speaker 2: documentary that's out on ESPN thirty for thirty is a
Speaker 2: phenomenal watch. There's a different level of intensity with hockey
Speaker 2: that I think, honestly speaking, is unmatched on stages like this,
Speaker 2: and you'll feel it when you tune in tonight.
Speaker 1: So it's at six o'clock.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 2: Utah Jazz are in action tomorrow. Gokse is the opponent.
Speaker 2: The second half of the NBA season kind of got
Speaker 2: gone last night.
Speaker 1: Lakers have lost.
Speaker 2: Now excuse me to the Jazz and the Hornets back
Speaker 2: to back games with Luca and Lebron. Our next guest
Speaker 2: covers the Jazz and other things for the Saul Lake
Speaker 2: Tribune on a Thursday afternoon. We welcome in Andy Larson, Andy,
Speaker 2: Happy Thursday, buddy.
Speaker 1: How are we doing?
Speaker 5: I'm good man, How are you?
Speaker 1: I'm good? I was beer bar last night. Most important question.
Speaker 2: The RSL Conker CAF Champions Cup watch party vibes immaculate.
Speaker 1: As the kids say, the vibe are good.
Speaker 5: You know, Look it was not a strongly attended watch party.
Speaker 5: They're probably I don't know ten fifteen RSL fans player,
Speaker 5: but to watch a nil Mill draw and where nothing happened,
Speaker 5: and so I would say the vibes were were probably
Speaker 5: pretty mid.
Speaker 4: Let's be honest.
Speaker 1: Mid vibes at beer bar. Wow, don't sell rimando.
Speaker 6: Look, beer bar.
Speaker 5: Had nothing to do with this. This is it's it's
Speaker 5: it's a great location to watch a game. But yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean nil mill with in a it was. It
Speaker 5: was not the peak of watch parties like you and
Speaker 5: I have been too.
Speaker 1: For example, fair enough, fair enough.
Speaker 2: So after that performance, have you changed your expectations for
Speaker 2: better or for worse for this club this year?
Speaker 5: I mean, I guess a little bit worse. Look, Coasta
Speaker 5: Recan teams aren't very good, and ideally you would be
Speaker 5: promoting more ideas and having better chances than I think
Speaker 5: RSL had during that match. And I mean I watched
Speaker 5: the Cincinnati Motagua match after that. That's the hun Duran
Speaker 5: club and they just they you know, Cincinnati bought that game,
Speaker 5: and to a degree that ARSOL didn't now didn't have
Speaker 5: Diego Luna, didn't have Justin Glad for most of that game,
Speaker 5: you know, And the biggest thing is they didn't have
Speaker 5: a striker. And then unfortunately, Gioga Gonsalves looked as average
Speaker 5: as he's been since RSOL acquired him. And so I
Speaker 5: think that in particular that last note, that Diogo doesn't
Speaker 5: look like a special or even in year two. As
Speaker 5: we start year two, and maybe we'll see how this develops.
Speaker 5: It's game one for sure, but it was as they
Speaker 5: put it on Twitter kind of mildly dishart names.
Speaker 2: Last RSL question, I am told that reinforcements should be expected.
Speaker 2: I don't know when. I don't know what it looks like.
Speaker 2: What do you hope it looks like? And when do
Speaker 2: you hope it comes down?
Speaker 5: Yeah, look, it's got to be a striker and Eliath
Speaker 5: Manuel didn't want to come to RSL again. It's disappointing
Speaker 5: that a replacement hasn't been found more quickly, you know,
Speaker 5: given that now you are playing in Champions League play,
Speaker 5: Champions Cup play. I guess it's disappointing frankly that they
Speaker 5: didn't find a bigger player after they knew that the
Speaker 5: teacher was going to be moving on, you know, pretty
Speaker 5: clearly midway through the season. They had knew what that
Speaker 5: situation was and knew that maybe that wasn't going to
Speaker 5: be tenable moving forward. So yeah, look, it's got to
Speaker 5: be a sector. It's got to be a good striker.
Speaker 5: It's got to be you know, a designated player striker
Speaker 5: in my mind, and or at least you know, someone
Speaker 5: who's got significant history of scoring goals in this league.
Speaker 5: You know, there's been the Duncan McGuire rumors, and maybe
Speaker 5: that's the way they go. And I think Duncan's a
Speaker 5: very good player and would solve a lot of those problems.
Speaker 5: I don't know about it at the DP level, but yeah,
Speaker 5: and in the end, you know, this team needs more
Speaker 5: upfront to be one of the best teams in the
Speaker 5: Western Conference. Like I hope they will be all.
Speaker 2: Right all Star weekend? Andy, goodness, gracious, what was your
Speaker 2: interest slash consumption level and your takeaways?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, honestly, pretty lowly. Tried to take some
Speaker 5: time off and but you know, it also just seems
Speaker 5: like the exact the exact opposite of must watch television, right,
Speaker 5: Like even in the sports world that I you know,
Speaker 5: love watching sports, Like why is an average sports fan
Speaker 5: watching the NBA All Star Game with its tournament and
Speaker 5: all of it's Kevin Hart skit and you know, giving
Speaker 5: awards to Charles Barkley and the inside the inside the
Speaker 5: NBA T and T crew when that show is still
Speaker 5: going to continue next year just on ESPN. No one
Speaker 5: cares what channel this is on. To turn you know,
Speaker 5: thirty minutes of basketball into a three hour presentation is rough.
Speaker 5: And so yeah, like the DAYTOTA five hundred, frankly may
Speaker 5: have been more interesting to watch for me. I had
Speaker 5: dinner with my family and did not feel like I
Speaker 5: was missing a whole lot of what was happening on
Speaker 5: All Star Sunday. You know, I think Mac mcclugg does
Speaker 5: some cool dunks on on All Ftairs Saturday, and you know,
Speaker 5: Stefan Castle did as well, and that was I think
Speaker 5: a relatively above average dunk contest. But yeah, it's just
Speaker 5: not must watch anymore. And I think, you know, that's
Speaker 5: the league of problem that all these leagues are facing,
Speaker 5: is that, like the traditional All Star game format doesn't
Speaker 5: work anymore. And ultimately, you know, I think kind of
Speaker 5: the further you get away from that traditional kind of idea,
Speaker 5: whether that be you know, what the NFL has done
Speaker 5: with the Pro Bowl or what the NHL has done
Speaker 5: with the Four Nations Tournament, it's probably the best way
Speaker 5: to go at this point.
Speaker 1: So are you old enough to remember when the All
Speaker 1: Star Game was fun?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Okay, yeah for sure. I mean I remember being a
Speaker 5: big part of growing up, being like eight, nine, ten
Speaker 5: years old and watching the All Star Game and it
Speaker 5: seems really fun and cool then right, like it seems
Speaker 5: like these superheroes in my brain, and some of that's
Speaker 5: just because I was a kid. But we're coming together
Speaker 5: and playing in this this game. You know that that
Speaker 5: had everyone I had ever heard of in it, right,
Speaker 5: So yeah, you know, it was better to look And
Speaker 5: it wasn't amazing. It's not like they were killing each
Speaker 5: other out there, but it was it was significantly, significantly
Speaker 5: more real than what we was doing over the last five
Speaker 5: and ten years.
Speaker 2: Do you have any ideas to make it, you know, consumable,
Speaker 2: because ultimately I understand your point about other leagues and
Speaker 2: dealing with their All Star stuff, and but the Pro
Speaker 2: Bowl was never good, Like the Pro Bowl was never good,
Speaker 2: And the NBA All Star Game for like thirty years
Speaker 2: was the best pick up all you know, pick up
Speaker 2: basketball game that you could find in the world because
Speaker 2: the best players showed up and played high level basketball.
Speaker 2: So whenever ask anyone asks me like, what's your preferred format,
Speaker 2: my preferred format is the All Star Game with players
Speaker 2: who give a rip. That's my preferred format. But I
Speaker 2: don't think that we're ever getting back there. Is there
Speaker 2: a format idea, whatever it is that you've heard that
Speaker 2: you think makes this thing redeemable or is it just
Speaker 2: time to eat our crow and understand that this is
Speaker 2: not anything that's ever going to be exciting ever.
Speaker 5: Again, I haven't heard of one that I think makes
Speaker 5: a real difference, you know, like if you they've done
Speaker 5: so many they've tried so many things, right, Like the
Speaker 5: one that gets me is that they you know, literally
Speaker 5: said gave you know, I think it was five hundred
Speaker 5: thousand dollars to the winner of the game to charity.
Speaker 5: And in fact, they in Cleveland, they brought kids who
Speaker 5: were food insecure, who were actually needed food from the
Speaker 5: food bank, sat them in they you know, lower bowl,
Speaker 5: very obvious section, a group of what twenty thirty kids,
Speaker 5: I don't know what the actual number was, and said
Speaker 5: we will give the food bank five hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 5: if you win this game. And the game still sucks, Like,
Speaker 5: I don't know what you do with that level of player,
Speaker 5: you know, disassociation from it being a quality product, and
Speaker 5: like I you know, yeah, you can kind of play
Speaker 5: around the edges with the elm ending and you and
Speaker 5: the tournament and you know, make it look worse so
Speaker 5: that hey, and some of these games are playing rising
Speaker 5: stars players and maybe they're trying to establish their name
Speaker 5: and so play a little bit harder. But like in
Speaker 5: the end, the rising stars didn't play that hard either, right, Like,
Speaker 5: it's not like they were really defending. They just want
Speaker 5: to be cool. And when you have the incentives that
Speaker 5: the NBA currently does, where most of the All Stars
Speaker 5: are making between thirty and sixty million dollars a year,
Speaker 5: you know, paying them eat a million dollars if they
Speaker 5: win also doesn't really cut it, you know. I think
Speaker 5: we've seen that with some with the play in tournament and.
Speaker 6: You know, home court.
Speaker 5: Advantage in the NBA finals. Let's say, I don't think
Speaker 5: really cuts it, because we see teams tank out of
Speaker 5: those positions you after year or just not you know,
Speaker 5: maybe not tank but load manage out of those positions
Speaker 5: you after year because they think, hey, being the third
Speaker 5: seed or the fourth seed in the playoffs is fine
Speaker 5: compared to being the first seed. It just doesn't matter
Speaker 5: that much who hosts that game Southern at the end
Speaker 5: of the series. So I'm fresh out of ideas. I
Speaker 5: haven't heard anything that's that interesting to me. And ultimately,
Speaker 5: I think that just like the incentives of the league
Speaker 5: that the league is too big right now for these
Speaker 5: guys to care about this because they are are already
Speaker 5: stars and just don't have that much to gain from
Speaker 5: trying really hard in the All Star Game.
Speaker 2: So, p K Suban, you know the Four Nations Finals tonight,
Speaker 2: Canada taking on the US.
Speaker 1: It's on our station.
Speaker 2: After the Craigsmith Coaches Show, he went on a couple
Speaker 2: of different platforms today. On ESPN, he was doing the
Speaker 2: rounds and he just eviscerated NBA players and he utilized
Speaker 2: his platform as an opportunity to express to consumers. If
Speaker 2: you are interested in watching a sport, if you are
Speaker 2: interested in watching a game where the league employs people
Speaker 2: that actually care about their craft, and I'm paraphrasing, of course,
Speaker 2: you should watch hockey.
Speaker 1: Because hockey players play through injuries.
Speaker 2: They play for the flag tonight and for their club
Speaker 2: as opposed to simply individual glory. And it's pretty unanimous,
Speaker 2: man Like, it's pretty much across the board, whether you're
Speaker 2: talking about Connor McDavid or or you know one of
Speaker 2: the local guys here, Dylan gun Through. It is a
Speaker 2: different brand of athlete, it's a different brand of care.
Speaker 2: Do you think that's something that people in the NBA
Speaker 2: could maybe learn a thing or two from as far
Speaker 2: as the commitments to their craft that hockey players have,
Speaker 2: or is this just a cultural societal thing that it
Speaker 2: is what it is, and if you're covering pro basketball,
Speaker 2: you just have to deal with what this thing has become,
Speaker 2: which is a product oftentimes played by players that don't
Speaker 2: seem to give that much of a rip.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think it's a mix of balls. And
Speaker 5: I think like the NBA players not caring generally is
Speaker 5: kind of overstated. Like Kevin Durant, did you watch that
Speaker 5: Court of Gold documentary?
Speaker 1: I did. It was awesome, It was awesome.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Kevin Durant cried about the idea of playing in
Speaker 5: the Olympics, right, like and that in that documentary and
Speaker 5: it clearly meant a ton to him, right And Like
Speaker 5: KD is not someone who I think is like an
Speaker 5: outlier in terms of caring about the game. Like I
Speaker 5: thought it was really clear that the Olympics really mattered
Speaker 5: to those players and to a huge degree. And so
Speaker 5: I think, like the Four Nations tournament being at the
Speaker 5: sets in the NHL level is reflective of kind of
Speaker 5: those same things that we we did actually see from
Speaker 5: NBA players in the Olympics, right, And I think we
Speaker 5: could see in kind of a tournament similar to four
Speaker 5: nations in the NBA. I also think that you're right that,
Speaker 5: like clearly there's a pride in playing through injury that
Speaker 5: hockey players have that NBA players don't. I would also
Speaker 5: say that, like frankly, that happens more on the team side,
Speaker 5: and I put more blame on the team putting out
Speaker 5: the injury report than the players. I mean, look, I've
Speaker 5: been in these jazz locker rooms or on you know,
Speaker 5: jazz shoot arounds whatever all year long and watches kind
Speaker 5: of the training staff and these team representatives come up
Speaker 5: to players and essentially say, hey, you know, how serious
Speaker 5: is this injury? Hey, maybe we should take this one,
Speaker 5: you know, be cautious about this. Maybe you should sit
Speaker 5: these next couple of games out Like while the players
Speaker 5: have those conversations and are not happy about them, right,
Speaker 5: Like would prefer to be playing those games. I mean,
Speaker 5: like John Collins is sitting you know, had that in
Speaker 5: the last few weeks with a fake injury, would rather
Speaker 5: be playing out there. Larie Markinen would rather be playing.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 5: And it's just the team that is preventing them from
Speaker 5: doing so. And I think that to me is like, Okay,
Speaker 5: you need to change the incentives of the sport a
Speaker 5: little bit. Where in hockey, you know, for whatever reason,
Speaker 5: those seven game series are not foregone conclusions, even when
Speaker 5: it's a one seed versus the seed. I mean, we've
Speaker 5: seen eight seeds make tremendous runs for the NHL playoffs
Speaker 5: in a way that we just have not seen NBA playout.
Speaker 5: The NBA eight seeds make those runs generally, you know,
Speaker 5: with a couple of exceptions. It feels like upsets are
Speaker 5: much more common in the NHL, and it you know, again,
Speaker 5: those games seems to individually matter. But like I do
Speaker 5: think that, I mean maybe overstate of maybe Pkseubun overstates
Speaker 5: a little bit, like the player side of everything that's
Speaker 5: not the All Star Game. I will absolutely blame the
Speaker 5: All Star Game on the players. I don't necessarily blame
Speaker 5: a whole lot of what we see in the NBA
Speaker 5: on the players exclusively because I know how much the
Speaker 5: teams are involved in not getting the best product every night.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think PK was probably utilizing the moment to
Speaker 2: make a larger point to get more people to tune
Speaker 2: into hockey, and a lot of it was performative, but
Speaker 2: I think a lot of points that were made are
Speaker 2: very fair And yeah, and you're not wrong ultimately to
Speaker 2: bring in the dynamic of not just teams but the league.
Speaker 2: And I always bring up agents behind the scenes wanting
Speaker 2: their clients to get to that second, third, fourth, sometimes
Speaker 2: fifth contract of your Chris Paul to make generational. Well,
Speaker 2: I get the game, but has the league simply become
Speaker 2: andy a Fortune five hundred company that is only caring
Speaker 2: about creating value for their shareholders? Like it feels like
Speaker 2: the league is run like a and it's always been
Speaker 2: a business. David Stern was a hardcore businessman, but David
Speaker 2: actually got the media game and the consumer game a
Speaker 2: little bit differently than this. You know, this office under
Speaker 2: Adam Silver seems to get. Is it just now that
Speaker 2: this league is simply about creating as much value for
Speaker 2: their shareholders as possible and it's just being run like
Speaker 2: a tech company.
Speaker 5: Frankly, yes, I'd agree with with all of that. And
Speaker 5: I think the kind of too big to fail idea
Speaker 5: does apply to the NBA a little bit right now,
Speaker 5: where you know, the the despite the TV ratings being
Speaker 5: what they are, you know, kind of mid whatever. The
Speaker 5: TV deal is tripling over the in the next contract,
Speaker 5: right like, they are assured so much money and so
Speaker 5: much revenue at the team level and at the player
Speaker 5: level that you know, frankly, teams back in the eighties,
Speaker 5: right like the Jazz were a million dollars away from
Speaker 5: going bankrupt at any given time, right like, and now
Speaker 5: they are incredibly flush with cash. And and even if
Speaker 5: a team tank, even if a team tanks, or even
Speaker 5: if the Jazz didn't sell sell out the Delta Center
Speaker 5: that's going to be signed for them, it doesn't make
Speaker 5: a big deal, you know, they they will still make
Speaker 5: a profit and the value of the franchise will continue
Speaker 5: to go up because the league has been so successful
Speaker 5: in running it well as a business, in ensuring that
Speaker 5: every team throughout the league makes a profit. And you know,
Speaker 5: that good business sense. And I'm sure the thirty owners
Speaker 5: appreciate Adam Silver for you know, making moves in that direction.
Speaker 5: But it does just remove a lot of the stakes
Speaker 5: of the competition, especially from the team side. And so yeah,
Speaker 5: as a result, I think you do see all of
Speaker 5: these things that you know, the tanking and load management
Speaker 5: and all these kind of anti consumer kind of results
Speaker 5: of that, consequences of that that weren't there in the
Speaker 5: eighties and nineties because profit was, you know, the kind
Speaker 5: of way more aligned with the product out there on
Speaker 5: the floor.
Speaker 2: I can't tell you how many buddies are I have
Speaker 2: that are lifelong NBA fans that are just like disenfranchised
Speaker 2: with the whole thing.
Speaker 1: It's just I don't know.
Speaker 2: But to your point, you know, they'll email you their
Speaker 2: P and L statement with their middle finger and say,
Speaker 2: what's our problem?
Speaker 1: Like, We're doing fine, and I get it.
Speaker 2: One more question in this space and then we'll do
Speaker 2: a little jazz before I say you lose. What's your
Speaker 2: opinion on? And I'm not a Lebron hater. I've sounded
Speaker 2: like it this week, but I'm not. I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't know that we have an example of another athlete
Speaker 2: that was anointed at the age of like sixteen or seventeen,
Speaker 2: who lived up to every expectation and superseded most of them.
Speaker 2: The story of Lebron James is phenomenal and always will be.
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm watching.
Speaker 2: The intros and they I think it was on Shacksog
Speaker 2: team and they introduced every player, and then they go
Speaker 2: to Lebron and he's in street clothes and we all
Speaker 2: find out like he's not playing. Now, there are a
Speaker 2: lot of ideas we're having. Amina El Hassen on coming
Speaker 2: up in the four o'clock hour his podcast with Tom
Speaker 2: Haberstrow Basketball Luminati. Their theory is he was silently protesting
Speaker 2: the young players playing on Sunday. I do not have
Speaker 2: my tinfoil hat on like that. But my issue with it,
Speaker 2: Andy is this, And I've never loved clauses and contracts
Speaker 2: that award All Star appearances or give you a bonus
Speaker 2: if you win a postseason award, because the process at
Speaker 2: times is arbitrary and it messes with people's money. All
Speaker 2: Lebron had to do was let somebody know he wasn't
Speaker 2: gonna play. They could have named his replacement, and that
Speaker 2: player could have had a clause exercise in his contract
Speaker 2: where he makes a couple hundred grand like if I'm
Speaker 2: a player that had the opportunity to potentially step in
Speaker 2: as a replacement. And Lebron pulled that act that was
Speaker 2: continued by always Questionable for the hornest game. No, he's
Speaker 2: not like he was playing like obviously, So I had
Speaker 2: a real issue with the way he approached what he
Speaker 2: did over the weekend.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts, I'm worth dealing.
Speaker 5: I feel like you kind of covered it. Lebron absolutely
Speaker 5: should have said that he was if he didn't want
Speaker 5: to play or didn't feel, you know, like that he
Speaker 5: was going to play, should have said something earlier. So
Speaker 5: demonts the bonus could have been in that game, and
Speaker 5: frankly honestly did it with Anthony Edwards, who also did
Speaker 5: not play for an injury. If we're you know, we
Speaker 5: should be fired of both of those guys that if
Speaker 5: we criticized one and criticize the other. I if they
Speaker 5: if they didn't want to play, if they felt that
Speaker 5: their participation was at risk, they should have told the
Speaker 5: league earlier. And again, a deserving All Star would have
Speaker 5: got gotten to play in the game.
Speaker 4: I yeah, have.
Speaker 5: A I have a significant problem with that.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it doesn't mean I'm a Lebron at or it
Speaker 5: doesn't mean I'm an Anthony Edward. Peter. Uh, It's just it's.
Speaker 4: Just, you know, not cool.
Speaker 2: I did not mean to take the good points with
Speaker 2: that was embedded into my question, Andy, I just know
Speaker 2: you're a smart guy and you could bounce off of it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, like it's just a bad look. Uh.
Speaker 2: Is there anything and this is me reaching for a topic.
Speaker 2: Is there anything Keanta can take away from that weekend?
Speaker 2: I mean, I suppose if you're going to be around
Speaker 2: your peers and they're the players in the world, that
Speaker 2: has to be a good thing, right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, probably, I mean probably. I'm interested in talking about this.
Speaker 5: So the jazz practice at three o'clock, so really quite
Speaker 5: soon here, and then once they're done with practice, we'll
Speaker 5: go over and talk to both Kiante and I think
Speaker 5: we're talking to Lowry market In as well after practice,
Speaker 5: and I will ask him that question because I'm curious too. Yeah,
Speaker 5: what he took away from it? I kind of wonder
Speaker 5: if like playing as reasonably well as he did in
Speaker 5: the Rising Stars and even on Sunday like may give
Speaker 5: him kind of a boost of confidence. But yeah, well
Speaker 5: I'm curious to see what he says. I don't guess.
Speaker 5: I guess I don't want to put words into his
Speaker 5: mouth in and I am just going to ask him
Speaker 5: about it in an hour and a half.
Speaker 2: Fair enough, all right, do you want to give me
Speaker 2: a hot Jaden Springer take. I guess Jazz fansher at
Speaker 2: least get to know the new player on the roster.
Speaker 5: I mean, he's a ten ten day guys who's going
Speaker 5: to be on the game and the on the team
Speaker 5: for the next five games.
Speaker 7: I believe it is.
Speaker 5: And then but yeah, I mean kind of has struggled
Speaker 5: to find a consistent role in Boston and Philadelphia can
Speaker 5: defend a little bit. We'll see kind of. Yeah, if
Speaker 5: if he gets playing time over the likes of Johnny Jusing, etcetera.
Speaker 5: I you know, if everyone's healthy, I'm I'm curious which
Speaker 5: way will Hardy will go with that? But yeah, you
Speaker 5: know he's the fifteenth man on the roster.
Speaker 2: All right, before I say you lose make the final
Speaker 2: what twenty eight games? I believe it is the final
Speaker 2: twenty eight games for the Jazz. Make it interesting.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, look, it's the same thing as we've
Speaker 5: done all year, right, Like it's whether or not the
Speaker 5: young guys are building blosstore if they if you feel
Speaker 5: comfortable kind of jettising them for a shot another player
Speaker 5: like the Jazz did with out tragic Boji last year. Right,
Speaker 5: So you know it is there something there with Bryce
Speaker 5: Sensaba or is there not? Is there something there with
Speaker 5: Cody Williams? Can he show, frankly anything, how you know,
Speaker 5: can I say improved, continue to improve his shooting percentages?
Speaker 5: Can you know, Keyante George figure out kind of be
Speaker 5: how to be an impact player when his shot isn't
Speaker 5: going in. I think there are opportunities for them to
Speaker 5: show those things. And you know, it's it's this is
Speaker 5: the most boring cliche in the world, but it is
Speaker 5: about stacking days. It is about like playing well in
Speaker 5: not just one game out of you know, ten, but
Speaker 5: one game out of two, and then kind of working
Speaker 5: to improve consistency. So like, I'm watching that stuff and
Speaker 5: we'll be reporting on that in my in my articles.
Speaker 1: A up team.
Speaker 2: We got a stacking days drop for Andy Larson. My
Speaker 2: man was down in provo listening to Kevin Young.
Speaker 1: Weren't you?
Speaker 5: I was, Do you see Kevin recognize me in that
Speaker 5: press conference? I thought that was kind of funny.
Speaker 2: I did not see that, but I'm happy for you
Speaker 2: that our guy Kevin Young recognized you.
Speaker 1: Did you have You've been.
Speaker 5: Watching too many NBA games with a question like that.
Speaker 5: I was like, Yeah, maybe I'm out of my depth.
Speaker 4: Peer.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if you know this, but Kevin
Speaker 2: spent some time in the NBA. If you didn't know that,
Speaker 2: all you gotta do is ask him.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and everyone else around the program too.
Speaker 4: But hey, look, I actually.
Speaker 5: That was fun.
Speaker 1: Oh dude, it was amazing.
Speaker 5: And uh just yeah, the degree to which b way
Speaker 5: you tore apart canvas. You know. I was coming in
Speaker 5: expecting a good game, but not a eviserration like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 2: Ken Palms Live and Studio coming up next, Andy, So
Speaker 2: we're gonna let you go enjoy the weekend.
Speaker 1: Will chat soon. Thanks buddy, and you.
Speaker 2: Lars covers the Utah Jazz for The Solid Tribune writes
Speaker 2: a data column really interesting piece up that Andy did
Speaker 2: on Daylight Savings, smart kid man whatever, Andy right, writes,
Speaker 2: I like to read because he's kind of a north
Speaker 2: star for us.
Speaker 1: So I appreciate Andy time today.
Speaker 2: We'll be there for a second stop, but I have
Speaker 2: to learn when it's this whole era and genre of
Speaker 2: the punk pop, we can't sing, so we're just gonna
Speaker 2: yell a lot of aggressive pauses there, So I had.
Speaker 3: To wait let him breathe a little bit. This is
Speaker 3: a good one for that, that question I have for
Speaker 3: you the other day. I think two fives aged well,
Speaker 3: they're still they're still pretty good.
Speaker 1: But it's definitely one of those.
Speaker 3: Bands that I listened to a lot, maybe early two
Speaker 3: thousands that don't doesn't get much run anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Food Fighters is aged well.
Speaker 2: I saw them in concert here last year Ken Pomeroy's
Speaker 2: live in studio.
Speaker 1: Do you mind if I ask you al you are? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: fifty two.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you're a little bit older than I am,
Speaker 2: but you remember obviously the nineties. That's like the deal
Speaker 2: we grew up. We're both Jet xers. Porter asked me
Speaker 2: this week. I thought it was a good question. How
Speaker 2: has the music that you liked in the nineties aged?
Speaker 2: And I think it's fair depending on the artists. I mean,
Speaker 2: any do you still listen to the music now, Ken,
Speaker 2: that you did in the nineties.
Speaker 8: I do, sadly, I do, you know. I tried to
Speaker 8: stay up with the times and in a number of
Speaker 8: different ways, but music has not been one of them.
Speaker 8: Big Food Fighters guy, by the way, for sure, Like, yeah,
Speaker 8: it's I think it's aged pretty well.
Speaker 1: But then they released some newer stuff right kind of. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they did not too long ago. Yeah, I wasn't a
Speaker 1: big pan of that.
Speaker 2: No, when I was at the show, I was just
Speaker 2: waiting for them to get to you know, the stuff
Speaker 2: they did in the nineties and then you know, right
Speaker 2: when the decade turned, they had a couple of good
Speaker 2: albums as well. Nobody listens to us for our music
Speaker 2: takes Ken, So I appreciate your time, Ken Pomroy live
Speaker 2: in studio. As my nephew once asked me, Uncle Spence,
Speaker 2: what is a Ken palm? Well, a Ken palm is
Speaker 2: the man sitting across from me. So if you're watching
Speaker 2: Sports Center, if you're watching college basketball shows and they
Speaker 2: say team is thirty first in the Ken palm, which
Speaker 2: BYU is right now, it's the work of our guy,
Speaker 2: Ken Pomeroy. So let's start with what was just a
Speaker 2: stunning game. As Brigham Young dog walked Kansas, I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm texting with my brothers who went to Byu. I'm like, Dad,
Speaker 2: they might beat him by forty. I was as unimpressed
Speaker 2: with Kansas Ken as I was impressed with Byu. Let's
Speaker 2: start with that game. I mean, I don't know, surprise, like,
Speaker 2: what were your takeaways. You were down there at the game.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, I'm more fascinated by the Kansas situation
Speaker 8: than the BYU situation. Out of that game, it was, yeah,
Speaker 8: as you said, pretty stun just the way they lost. Obviously,
Speaker 8: Kansas was coming off the loss to Utah, which was
Speaker 8: not necessarily stunning, but certainly surprising, and just.
Speaker 1: Had no juice at BYU.
Speaker 8: You know, we talked about this off the air, but
Speaker 8: you know Bill salv right now, he's running a line
Speaker 8: about there that has a four and a five that
Speaker 8: basically don't shoot. So the space thing's a little bit
Speaker 8: of a problem. And in that game, he decided to
Speaker 8: start up the four and the five and then also
Speaker 8: his back up four, so he had three guys in
Speaker 8: the starting line they couldn't shoot.
Speaker 1: He just leaned into this, you know, nineteen eighties style.
Speaker 8: Basketball, and they got off to a terrible start and
Speaker 8: it just got got worse from there.
Speaker 2: So and it's funny, you say, the Kansas side of
Speaker 2: this is a little bit more interesting topically because the
Speaker 2: day after the game, I listened to three different college
Speaker 2: football podcasts.
Speaker 1: Gary Parrish has one up. Gary's the front of the show.
Speaker 2: So I listened to him, and all of them started
Speaker 2: with what the hell is going on with Kansas? As
Speaker 2: opposed to giving BYU their flowers? So I'll ask you
Speaker 2: what the hell is going on with Kansas? Bill Sell
Speaker 2: Well of twenty two years. His first twenty years, he
Speaker 2: never lost six league games, eight league losses. Last year
Speaker 2: already at seven. Zeke Mayo, AJ Storr, Ryland Griffin. Their
Speaker 2: three transfers, Zeke has played well, the other two haven't
Speaker 2: been great. What what's going on?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: This does not look like the bluest of blue bloods
Speaker 2: in the Big twelve, which by definition they very much are.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, well, yeah, you kind of nailed it there.
Speaker 8: He's missed on some transfers, didn't have a great, you know,
Speaker 8: freshman class coming in, relying on some extent to Hunter Dickinson,
Speaker 8: their you know, fifty year center, who is you know,
Speaker 8: he's a fine player, but again more of not necessarily
Speaker 8: a most dynamic center out there. And so that's all
Speaker 8: kind of led to this situation where, you know, their
Speaker 8: offense really struggles. They don't shoot a lot of threes,
Speaker 8: but on top of that, they don't get to the
Speaker 8: free throw line at all, which is a pretty awful combination.
Speaker 8: Like usually teams that you know rely on a couple
Speaker 8: of post players are going to get some free throws.
Speaker 8: I didn't see what the final total was the other night.
Speaker 8: I think kas had like maybe five free throw at times.
Speaker 8: They might have got some more in garbage time, but
Speaker 8: it was pretty it was pretty ugly. And so if
Speaker 8: you're just scoring two at a time, you have to
Speaker 8: be really good at that. And yeah, they were two
Speaker 8: for five from the freedom.
Speaker 1: Line, so I didn't realize that that's wild.
Speaker 8: Yeah, so it's just a it's an awful combination. And
Speaker 8: their defense is still pretty good. It was not good
Speaker 8: against BYU. It was that was there by far their
Speaker 8: worst defensive game of the year. Their defense, though generally
Speaker 8: has been pretty solid. They lead the Big twelve and
Speaker 8: two point percentage defense, which is a great sign for
Speaker 8: your defense. But offensively they just are are you know,
Speaker 8: not good enough to reliably hang with the best teams
Speaker 8: in the league.
Speaker 2: So I did not know that their defense normally is
Speaker 2: good because against BYU it was atrocious. I mean, look,
Speaker 2: if Trevinell couldn't shoot it, he'd be blogging for Kassel
Speaker 2: about BYU basketball. He's like twenty seven, and it's the
Speaker 2: one thing he does, and he does it very well.
Speaker 2: He scored a thousand points, he's now in their top
Speaker 2: five and three point field goals made.
Speaker 1: And my man was wide open.
Speaker 2: And I think even the look on his face, I
Speaker 2: didn't know if Kansas was going to his own because
Speaker 2: Trevin would just run to the corner and you kind
Speaker 2: of look around. He's like, I'm wide open. Just throw
Speaker 2: it to me and I'll shoot it. So they didn't
Speaker 2: check the player in Trevinell where the one sentence on
Speaker 2: the scattering report is make him put it on the
Speaker 2: deck because he can only shoot it. I thought Richie
Speaker 2: made some tough shots. But how much of that blowout
Speaker 2: was BYU executing what Kevin wants them to run? How
Speaker 2: much of it was Kansas simply ignoring really good shooters?
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you know, you played really well. I don't
Speaker 1: want to downplay that.
Speaker 8: You know, you don't beat a Kansas team by thirty,
Speaker 8: you know, when you're just playing average ball. But there
Speaker 8: were certainly some major breakdowns by Kansas defensively, And I
Speaker 8: mean by you put that kind of pressure on a defense,
Speaker 8: you know, they do have that great space and they
Speaker 8: do have shooters in the corners. You know, most of
Speaker 8: the time they're gonna have you know, four or five
Speaker 8: shooters on the floor, so they just you know, and
Speaker 8: they have great size as well, so you know, there's
Speaker 8: a lot going in BYU's favor, and they do put
Speaker 8: pressure on a defense, and there were just a number
Speaker 8: of breakdowns guarding you know, pick and roll by Kansas
Speaker 8: that led to those open threes. But again, to be all,
Speaker 8: you deserve that credit. They were able to put that
Speaker 8: kind of pressure on a defense and the defense is
Speaker 8: not up to it, and they can make them look
Speaker 8: pretty bad. And I do want to point out, you know,
Speaker 8: this little factoid. So BYU made sixty two thirds of
Speaker 8: its two point attempts twenty for thirty and that's the
Speaker 8: best two point percentage against a Kansas defense in a
Speaker 8: conference game in the Bell Self era going back at
Speaker 8: least twenty five.
Speaker 1: Years as far as I have data going back.
Speaker 8: So you know, it was it was really I don't
Speaker 8: think people realize, but you know, really a historic performance
Speaker 8: going against the Kansas defense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the it's tied for the worst loss that
Speaker 2: Bill's had at Kansas in twenty two years. It was
Speaker 2: the worst loss that a preseason AP one team has
Speaker 2: ever suffered ever in history of college basketball. So what
Speaker 2: now are you willing to say about Brigham Young now
Speaker 2: after they've gone let's see seven and two in their
Speaker 2: last nine, three straight wins, including both wins over the
Speaker 2: Kansas teams, Case State and Kansas. They're going to be
Speaker 2: at McHale coming up in a couple of days at Arizona.
Speaker 1: They've got five games left.
Speaker 2: There's a chance they win twelve league games, which would
Speaker 2: be really really good year one Kevin Young. So it
Speaker 2: feels like they're high speed out of the tournament, and
Speaker 2: it feels like maybe they could be a bit of
Speaker 2: a problem because when they are knocking down shots, Ken,
Speaker 2: they are tough.
Speaker 1: That's a good team.
Speaker 2: What are you willing to say about what you think
Speaker 2: BYU's chances are to make spring fun?
Speaker 1: I guess is how we'll ask it? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 8: I mean it feels like a theme that we've encountered
Speaker 8: before with BYU, even going back to last year.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, rightah absolutely, but even.
Speaker 8: You know they've had seasons before that where you know
Speaker 8: this is when by US at its best Historically, It's
Speaker 8: like they play this style, right, they played this kind
Speaker 8: of way under Mark Pope, where they you know, take
Speaker 8: a lot of threes, and when they had shooters and
Speaker 8: had that spacing, the offense looked great and it looked
Speaker 8: like it should do some damage in the tournament, and
Speaker 8: yet the results were never there. So, you know, I
Speaker 8: do think there's a chance for something good to happen.
Speaker 8: You know, there's a chance they can get to the
Speaker 8: sweet sixteen something like that. Like you know, but NC
Speaker 8: State went to the Final four last year, So there's
Speaker 8: almost anybody can can do this, right if they get
Speaker 8: if they get hot by you certainly in that mix.
Speaker 1: I am curious to see what happens against Arizona. You know.
Speaker 8: I have a pet theory that when you have a
Speaker 8: game like by you just had where it comes a
Speaker 8: little easy, like clearly like BYU is not thirty points
Speaker 8: better than Kansas, you know, on a consistent basis, otherwise
Speaker 8: they be the best team in college basketball, right, Like,
Speaker 8: I just.
Speaker 1: Wonder how a team comes back from that.
Speaker 8: Do they really believe they're that good or did they
Speaker 8: understand that Hey, we you know, we face a team
Speaker 8: that was a little bit beaten up and mentally down,
Speaker 8: and you know, we're gonna have to play at a
Speaker 8: very high level to hang with Arizona. It's gonna be
Speaker 8: if they if they can do that, I mean, they
Speaker 8: don't have to even beat Arizona to impress me, but
Speaker 8: just make a game of it. Because Arizona's playing very well,
Speaker 8: you know, probably the second best team in the league
Speaker 8: right now, and you know it'll be you know, if
Speaker 8: by you can hang with them, I'll be impressed.
Speaker 2: One of the wildest things that's happened would be you
Speaker 2: first couple of years in the Big Twelve, they're two
Speaker 2: and l against Kansas and basketball, and they're zero to
Speaker 2: two against Kansas and football, which is so wild more
Speaker 2: impressive feat dog walking Kansas on your home floor and
Speaker 2: nearly beating in by forty are going to fog last
Speaker 2: year and getting to win, Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's going on the road and getting a win.
Speaker 8: The one thing that the Big Twelve has is great
Speaker 8: home environments, and we've seen that really with the local
Speaker 8: teams right like bui Use lost twice at home. You
Speaker 8: thought was lost twice at home, so there's only been
Speaker 8: four losses at home and Texas stuck actually has two
Speaker 8: of those. So that's one thing that the league has
Speaker 8: whether it's you know, Kansas or or Iowa State or
Speaker 8: now Arizona, Kansas State. I mean, there's a number of
Speaker 8: places where it's it's very hard to win. And I
Speaker 8: actually have a a model. You're not surprised probably this.
Speaker 8: Probably I made a model to estimate home court advantage
Speaker 8: at every location. And and the Big Twelve owns the
Speaker 8: top four road environments in the country, so and collectively
Speaker 8: the Big Twelve has the toughest the toughest home home court.
Speaker 8: So so that's you know, just gives you an idea
Speaker 8: like picking up a road wind, you know, especially at
Speaker 8: Allen Field House, but you know, against.
Speaker 1: Any good team in this league is extremely impressive.
Speaker 2: For somebody that uses his calculator to pay rent. Can
Speaker 2: you explain to me how one approaches building a model
Speaker 2: for home court because I'm I'm picturing you like Mark
Speaker 2: Zuckerberg in his dorm room writing algorithms on his window.
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's accurate, But how does one
Speaker 2: go about the process of building a model to explain
Speaker 2: home court advantage in college basketball?
Speaker 8: Yeah, so it's just a matter of going back in
Speaker 8: history and kind of figuring out what stats matter to
Speaker 8: predict like future home court advantage, which it's it's fairly
Speaker 8: like simple to identify those things. Like the main thing
Speaker 8: is points, you know, like if your scoring margin at
Speaker 8: home is better than your scoring marginal on the road,
Speaker 8: it's probably indicative that you have a good home court advantage.
Speaker 8: But there's other things like foul calls, block shots, some
Speaker 8: things that like denote aggressiveness or denote officiating bias that
Speaker 8: that also play into home court advantage. And so all
Speaker 8: those factors go into it, and we look at like
Speaker 8: the last three or four years of that and get
Speaker 8: a number, and it's pretty good in identifying how good
Speaker 8: home court advantage is going forward.
Speaker 2: How does the marriage Center stack up with your model?
Speaker 2: It seems like it's becoming it. Look it was always well,
Speaker 2: not always, but more often than not, the Marriage Center,
Speaker 2: because BYU has had a lot of really good teams,
Speaker 2: has been pretty loud. It feels like over the past,
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe it was the Fordet thing, something
Speaker 2: sparked the basketball community down there. The game ops they
Speaker 2: do a really good job. So how does the marriage
Speaker 2: center score with your model? As far as the home
Speaker 2: court advantage? It is number thirteen, number thirteen in the country.
Speaker 8: Well it's good. Yeah, it's really good. You'd be surprised
Speaker 8: to note though, that you thought comes at number five.
Speaker 8: So wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait
Speaker 8: wait wait wait does that.
Speaker 1: Just credit the model at all? Wait wait wait?
Speaker 2: The University of Utah, who play their basketball at the
Speaker 2: Huntsman Center, have the fifth best home court advantage in
Speaker 2: the country.
Speaker 1: Yes, so so a.
Speaker 8: Lot of I neglected to mention another important factor in
Speaker 8: home court advantage. That is altitude, which obviously have around here.
Speaker 8: But but yeah, that's the way, that's the way it
Speaker 8: checks out. It's obviously not entirely due to fan support,
Speaker 8: you know, yeah, I'm not getting kind of sellouts up
Speaker 8: there right now.
Speaker 1: But but it just.
Speaker 8: Goes to show you that they might not truly have
Speaker 8: the fifth best home quarter of vantage spans. I'm not
Speaker 8: going to like die on that hill, but they do
Speaker 8: have above average home quarter advantage. And as we've seen
Speaker 8: this yere in Big Twelve play like you know, it's
Speaker 8: not a vintage Utah team, and yet at home, you know,
Speaker 8: they're six and two in the Big Twelve, like they
Speaker 8: played all the games at home, they be you know,
Speaker 8: buying for a league title, right, what.
Speaker 2: About the spectrum Utah State, which which feels like, in
Speaker 2: my estimation, potentially the best home court advantage in the state.
Speaker 1: But I do look, mine's anecdotal.
Speaker 2: It's on feel, it's on the crowd, it's on the noise, right,
Speaker 2: I don't have any data to back up my take
Speaker 2: that the spectrum is as tough a place to play
Speaker 2: as I feel like maybe anywhere.
Speaker 1: But what does your model say about Utah States on court?
Speaker 8: It has them at number eight, So yeah, extremely respectable
Speaker 8: as well.
Speaker 2: So according to the Ken Palm model, Utah has the
Speaker 2: best home court advantage Utah State two and BYU three,
Speaker 2: I mean they're essentially within the margin of ara of
Speaker 2: the model.
Speaker 8: You know, they're essentially even, and they're all very good.
Speaker 8: Who's number one? Number one's West Virginia, Oh, Morgantown. Yeah,
Speaker 8: so you know, decent fans apart. Not an easy place
Speaker 8: to get to. That's the thing about home quar advantage too.
Speaker 8: You know, like Kansas checks in at sixteen. I think
Speaker 8: people would say, like, oh, Kansas has the best home
Speaker 8: court advantage, but they have a very good home court advantage,
Speaker 8: but they also a very good team, Like that's part
Speaker 8: of the reason why it's tough to win there. Right,
Speaker 8: They're usually very good, and so even if there were
Speaker 8: no fans there, it'd be tough to win.
Speaker 2: So Utah also played Kansas. They also played Kansas State.
Speaker 2: The Kansas Jayhawks rolled into the state of Utah and
Speaker 2: played two games where they never let right, that's wild, right,
Speaker 2: They didn't lead for a second against the Utes, and
Speaker 2: they didn't lead for Look, the BYU game was it
Speaker 2: was eight zero after ninety seconds and Bill self called
Speaker 2: the time out and Kansas never counter punched, right, And
Speaker 2: the Utah game was a little bit more back and forth.
Speaker 2: But what are your latest thoughts on a couple of
Speaker 2: wins for the Utes against both teams from the state
Speaker 2: of Kansas, and you know, if they're able to get
Speaker 2: three their final five, Craig gets ten league wins year,
Speaker 2: you know, in year four for him, which I think
Speaker 2: would be a step in the right direction. I mean, look,
Speaker 2: I always hesitate to celebrate, you know, wins and achievements
Speaker 2: that I think fall far below the expectation I have
Speaker 2: for our programs. I cover our programs in a way
Speaker 2: that I believe that we should have NCAA tournament teams
Speaker 2: as much as possible. I think that should be the standard.
Speaker 2: And yes, I was spoiled going to school there in
Speaker 2: the nineties when that was the standard and they were
Speaker 2: making runs. So I'm not saying that we should, you know,
Speaker 2: jump out of our seats for joy, but it has
Speaker 2: been a little bit better as of late.
Speaker 8: Ken What are you saying, right, Yeah, for sure. I
Speaker 8: mean I think that was always the thing with the
Speaker 8: youth that we always talked about, is that they're you know,
Speaker 8: they're obviously not higher end Big twelve team, but they
Speaker 8: should be good enough to pick off some of these
Speaker 8: teams at home. And it was a little disappointing, you know,
Speaker 8: when Baylor came here and the game wasn't very close.
Speaker 8: But but since then they've they've you know, won four
Speaker 8: in a row at home and obviously took care of
Speaker 8: the Kansas teams, and I applaud I don't know if
Speaker 8: I applaud I admire Craig Smith for continuing to uh
Speaker 8: run the high wire act of leaves leaving a loss
Speaker 8: and lovering in the game late as he did against
Speaker 8: Kansas again in a tight game, just letting him out
Speaker 8: there and knowing he's gonna get hacked and he he
Speaker 8: went one for nine I think from the free throw
Speaker 8: line and didn't matter. Still still pulled out the game. So, uh,
Speaker 8: you know, tip of the cab for that. But uh yeah,
Speaker 8: it's it's been I think refreshing obviously. You know, you
Speaker 8: refregard that Craigsmith, and it is good that that they're having
Speaker 8: some success. And uh, you know, the schedule isn't gonna
Speaker 8: be easy down the stretch. Three of three of the
Speaker 8: five games are on the road, but as you said,
Speaker 8: there's an opportunity to gain some respectability here heading into
Speaker 8: the Big Twelve tournament and uh, you know, hopefully establish
Speaker 8: a situation where they can, uh you know, attract a
Speaker 8: little more talent for next year.
Speaker 1: Is the conference down to what you expected?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think at the start of the year
Speaker 2: you reference the SEC as one. The Big Twelve is too.
Speaker 2: It feels like the Big Twelve of this point might
Speaker 2: be three. Yeah, the Big Doves three in my ratings,
Speaker 2: just behind the Big Ten. But you know it's close.
Speaker 2: And we know you discussed how the SEC just absolutely.
Speaker 1: Tore through a non conference play and.
Speaker 8: Is establishing a different standard for how good a basketball
Speaker 8: conference can be. I think it's probably well, I don't know,
Speaker 8: but I think it could be a one year type
Speaker 8: of blip for them where they should come back down
Speaker 8: to earth. In fact, I'm kind of rolling around some
Speaker 8: ideas in my head about how the SEC is maybe
Speaker 8: even a little bit overrated based on the results this year.
Speaker 8: You know, you look historically at what the best conference
Speaker 8: does in the NCAA tournament year after year, and they
Speaker 8: tend to disappoint, and the SEC could be could be
Speaker 8: headed down that road as well.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the Big Dolve's third.
Speaker 8: But it's like, you know, they've been number one, you know,
Speaker 8: number one or number two like the last twelve years
Speaker 8: of my ratings, and mostly number one in that time.
Speaker 8: So yeah, it's a little bit of a step down
Speaker 8: from that standpoint, but it's still an extremely strong lead.
Speaker 2: So I referenced by you, you know, feeling like they
Speaker 2: are high speed out of the tournaments and they're gonna
Speaker 2: be ranked in the top twenty five out imagine coming
Speaker 2: up next week. What about the postseason potential for the
Speaker 2: UTES because barring some crazy run in the Big twelve tournament,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know that the nc Double A
Speaker 2: tournament is gonna be on you know, on the table
Speaker 2: for Craig. But if they let's say, if they're able
Speaker 2: to go three and two down the stretch and they
Speaker 2: win ten league games, is there anything they can do
Speaker 2: besides miraculously winning the Big twelve tournament to actually garner
Speaker 2: consideration to make the NC Double A's isn't a large.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think the only thing they can do is
Speaker 8: win the rest of their games. Yeah, you know, that
Speaker 8: would that would probably be it. Yeah, They're gonna have
Speaker 8: to you know, prove themselves a little bit more on
Speaker 8: the road, so you know, they like the Cougars have
Speaker 8: a road game against Arizona on the docket and then
Speaker 8: obviously they got the return trip to Provo. If they
Speaker 8: if they won their last five games, they would definitely
Speaker 8: be in the conversation. The real issue is, like, you know,
Speaker 8: is this team actually good enough to do that? And
Speaker 8: the way they played the date, even considering the you know,
Speaker 8: the last two wins, like they're not good enough to
Speaker 8: do that.
Speaker 1: Now, maybe they play a lot better.
Speaker 8: You know, the stranger things have happened in college basketball,
Speaker 8: although not many stranger things, but that would be the scenario.
Speaker 8: But they're just so far off the map right now
Speaker 8: that yeah, they need to they I don't think they
Speaker 8: can afford any more losses.
Speaker 2: Utah State nearly beat San Jose State by a cool
Speaker 2: half one hundred last night.
Speaker 1: It was a bloodbath.
Speaker 2: But they have lost to New Mexico twice now, so
Speaker 2: New Mexico has that lead over them in the conference.
Speaker 2: It's a one game lead at this point. So before
Speaker 2: we catch a break, let's wrap up the local story
Speaker 2: lines with where you're at right now on the Aggies,
Speaker 2: who are twenty three and four overall, and they're thirteen
Speaker 2: and three in Mountain West Conference play, which is good
Speaker 2: for second.
Speaker 8: So give me your thoughts on Utah State. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 8: still still love where the Aggies are at. You know,
Speaker 8: they did had a really good performance down in Albuquerque.
Speaker 1: You know, lost to New Mexico late, but.
Speaker 8: You know, really, I think leading most of that game
Speaker 8: in the first thirty minutes and then you know, New
Speaker 8: Mexico just just finished them off.
Speaker 1: But that's not a bad loss at all.
Speaker 8: And you know, they got an interesting stretch coming up
Speaker 8: now where they host San Diego State this weekend. You know,
Speaker 8: they beat the Astags down there, so to get a
Speaker 8: sweep of San Diego State, another team that's getting tournament consideration.
Speaker 1: That would be huge just to kind of cement their profile.
Speaker 8: I mean, they probably the Eggs probably need to win
Speaker 8: two of these last four games to feel pretty good
Speaker 8: about getting into the tournament. Certainly winning three of the
Speaker 8: last four would do it. And so they had the
Speaker 8: two home games with the Astags and air Force, and
Speaker 8: you know, air Force hasn't won a game in conference play,
Speaker 8: so they should win that, and then the road games
Speaker 8: against Poise State and CSU. So winning three of the
Speaker 8: four is certainly possible the way they played, but even
Speaker 8: two out of four I think would be good enough.
Speaker 1: And you know, again.
Speaker 8: Another scenario where the Mountain West typically underperforms in the tournament.
Speaker 8: So I don't know what the future would hold for
Speaker 8: the Aggies in the tournament, but I do have their
Speaker 8: offense ranked at fourteenth, right, so we won't discuss their defense,
Speaker 8: but the offense certainly good enough to win some games.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: Coming up on the other side, we'll kind of expand
Speaker 2: out of the state's footprint talk some big picture college hoops.
Speaker 2: We will get Ken's take on some of the prospects
Speaker 2: Jazz fans can watch down the stretch. To have a
Speaker 2: little bit of hope while the jazz continue to lose
Speaker 2: for you know, maybe at some point to consider when
Speaker 2: they could be good again. So Ken Palmeroys live in studio.
Speaker 2: I mean Al Hassen rolls by in the four o'clock hour.
Speaker 2: We'll do a little sports court later on, but it's
Speaker 2: a busy Thursday drive, so keep it right here. AUDIESPN
Speaker 2: seven hundred ninety two ANDEFM proud to be part of
Speaker 2: Utazi ESPN Radio Network. All right, show roll along today.
Speaker 2: My friend Melissa from Sound Sleep Medical joins us live
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Speaker 1: Melissa, how are you doing great? All right?
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Speaker 2: You're gonna get to a you went to golf PGA
Speaker 2: Tour updates, don't miss the fifty percent bonus trade in
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Speaker 2: new twenty twenty five golf clubs. Are you still doing
Speaker 2: any golf stuff, Ken pump Uh, like physically playing golfer
Speaker 2: for a while, golf analyzing golf?
Speaker 8: Right, Yeah, No, I haven't done that in a few years.
Speaker 8: Basketball has just consumed everything. But that was fun. It
Speaker 8: was fun going back and analyzing, like shottling data and
Speaker 8: stuff like that.
Speaker 1: For these pros, that was a neat data set.
Speaker 2: And you are a player to get out and swing
Speaker 2: a club from time to time.
Speaker 1: I'm a player, Definitely, there you go. That's see. I
Speaker 1: like the confidence Ken.
Speaker 2: Right now, it's the Mexico Open at Vedanta World Round
Speaker 2: one is in progress. Don't know how many the heavy
Speaker 2: hitters are in this tournament, but we'll give you a
Speaker 2: quick look at the leaderboard.
Speaker 1: Our guy Harry Hall. You know where Harry Hall is from.
Speaker 1: He's from Northern Ireland.
Speaker 2: Wow, what, I've never even heard of him. Well done,
Speaker 2: seven under par. Jeremy Paul is seven hunder par as well.
Speaker 2: I'm looking for notables. Not a lot of big dogs
Speaker 2: in this tournament yet.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, well anyway, go head to you went to golf.
Speaker 2: I think I'm gonna get a new putter, not gonna
Speaker 2: get new clubs. I think I'm getting a new putter.
Speaker 2: Think I'm doing the tailor made spider, the Scottie Scheffler special.
Speaker 1: It doesn't help. I'm just gonna worn you. I know,
Speaker 1: but you tricked yourself anto thinking it helps? What do
Speaker 1: you swing? Kind of clubs to swing? What do you got?
Speaker 8: I think I got some Mazuno's, Mizuno irons and Callaway
Speaker 8: driver that's.
Speaker 1: In a bag.
Speaker 2: Miszouno irons are solid. That's a good set of golf clubs.
Speaker 2: I'm excited for the snow to melt so i can
Speaker 2: get out and swing head down to Arnie's tournament in
Speaker 2: Orlando coming up in a couple weeks, So excited for that.
Speaker 1: Ken Palmeroy live in studio.
Speaker 2: Enough golf talk, let's get back to some college basketball talk.
Speaker 1: Actually, let's do a little let's do a.
Speaker 2: Little prospect watch for Jazz fans that are gonna watch
Speaker 2: the final twenty eight games of the Jazz and we
Speaker 2: all know what time it is. It's no secret they're
Speaker 2: not even shy about it anymore. And so we're hoping
Speaker 2: that for the first time in Jazz history, we get
Speaker 2: a little lottery luck. Ken, the Jazz have been in
Speaker 2: a lottery nine times that have never moved up. My
Speaker 2: whole thing is the good karma from facilitating trades. Jimmy
Speaker 2: Butler's a warrior, Luka, Doncish is a Laker, and Xanik
Speaker 2: in the front office, Danny, they helped it helped out.
Speaker 2: So what that means is we should be rewarded with
Speaker 2: good karma to get the number one overall pick. How
Speaker 2: big is the gap between Cooper Flag and whoever is
Speaker 2: number two?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 8: I don't know exactly how to describe that. I mean
Speaker 8: number two is Dylan Harper, who is very good as well.
Speaker 8: There is a difference there. I mean, I think Cooper
Speaker 8: Flies a clear number one, Dylan Harper is a clear
Speaker 8: number two. Uh, there may be more of a grating
Speaker 8: two and three than there is between one and two.
Speaker 1: Let's put it that way.
Speaker 2: So let's just have a little fun and say the
Speaker 2: Jazz are able to lock into the number one overall pick.
Speaker 8: It's it's Cooper. Yeah, it's auto auto draft at that point. Okay,
Speaker 8: up on auto draft and go home, except the Jazz
Speaker 8: can't go home. They do have another first round pick,
Speaker 8: so I'll have to stick stick around. But uh, yeah,
Speaker 8: I mean it's uh, I mean, Cooper Flag is just phenomenal, right,
Speaker 8: Like he's averaging twenty points a game for one of
Speaker 8: the best teams in the country and he's barely eighteen
Speaker 8: years old, and uh, he's not. It's not a one
Speaker 8: dimensional twenty points a game. Like right now, I'm looking
Speaker 8: at the mock draft at Tankathon and it's Bailey out
Speaker 8: of records as the number three pick, and he is
Speaker 8: averaging nineteen points a game.
Speaker 1: But that's a it's a little more of.
Speaker 8: A empty nineteen points, you know, it's a little more
Speaker 8: of a selfish nineteen points, right he's bainlely super talented,
Speaker 8: and he's surely and probably gonna be awesome. But Cooper
Speaker 8: Flag is he just you know, he can handle the
Speaker 8: ball all he has great vision, he just has great
Speaker 8: feel for the game. And on top of that, he's
Speaker 8: a skilled scorer really from all three levels. So he
Speaker 8: does everything and he's still got you know, he still.
Speaker 1: Has not entered the prime development years of his life,
Speaker 1: do you.
Speaker 2: And I don't love comps. I never have because I
Speaker 2: think it puts a unfair idea in fans' minds and
Speaker 2: I think it sets players up to fail.
Speaker 1: So I'm not a huge like, hey, he reminds me
Speaker 1: of this. He reminds me of that.
Speaker 2: But for Jazz fans and aren't dialed into Duke basketball,
Speaker 2: is there an NBA player that you think he kind
Speaker 2: of plays?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm actually with you on the comp thing, partly
Speaker 8: because of what you say, Like, I think it's kind
Speaker 8: of it's kind of a weird thing to compare somebody
Speaker 8: does somebody else?
Speaker 1: Like could you imagine that in your own profession? Spence?
Speaker 8: You know, like, right, you get compared to Steven A.
Speaker 8: Smith or something. I don't want that. Well anyway, yeah,
Speaker 8: so that's sort of the and but the second reason
Speaker 8: is that I actually am not very good at comps, right,
Speaker 8: That's fine. My encyclopedic knowledge of historical players is somewhat
Speaker 8: poor when it comes to like the fine I think
Speaker 8: the the the attributes that we're looking for here to
Speaker 8: make you know, a decent comp And we've seen people
Speaker 8: on TV, you know, Jalen Rose most notably perhaps in
Speaker 8: the reason past, you know, get in trouble. Most people
Speaker 8: do these comps and it's just like, how does the
Speaker 8: player look? You know, who looks like Cooper Flag? You know,
Speaker 8: just like facially right in tone, and it's like, that's
Speaker 8: kind of it's kind of gross. So yeah, so I'm
Speaker 8: not a huge calm guy, but just you know, from
Speaker 8: a production standpoint, Cooper Flag is an above average number
Speaker 8: one overall pick.
Speaker 2: Let's put it that way, all right, fair enough, fair enough. So,
Speaker 2: if you're a Jazz fan, be dialed in on Duke basketball.
Speaker 2: And speaking of Duke basketball, Ken, since you and I
Speaker 2: last spoke, Duke has elevated themselves to the number one
Speaker 2: team in your model. So what has happened over the
Speaker 2: past couple of weeks because Auburn I think is stayed clean.
Speaker 2: They beat Damma. I think last time we spoke, you
Speaker 2: had Auburn at one. Now Duke is a one, Auburn
Speaker 2: is at two. What exactly is flipped? Well, I mean
Speaker 2: they're basically co number ones. You know, they're very close
Speaker 2: in the ratings. Auburn's out of some closer games.
Speaker 1: Uh, you know here in the last few weeks, whereas
Speaker 1: Duke really has not.
Speaker 8: They did lose the Clumson on the road a couple
Speaker 8: of weeks ago, but otherwise they're they're doing to the
Speaker 8: ACC what Gonzaga has typically done.
Speaker 1: To like the WCC.
Speaker 8: And that's kind of the storyline here headed headed into
Speaker 8: the tournament, is like there's gonna be questions about Duke
Speaker 8: against quality competition. They do get a very extremely rare
Speaker 8: February non conference game on Saturday against Illinois. If you
Speaker 8: want to see NBA prospects on the floor, that's a
Speaker 8: great chance because Illinois themselves has a couple of potential
Speaker 8: first rounders and Caspers Yaka chonas and and Will Riley,
Speaker 8: and obviously Duke has three freshmen as well that could
Speaker 8: end up going in the top ten of the draft.
Speaker 1: So great, great showcase for that.
Speaker 8: But but that's the story with Due, Like they've looked great,
Speaker 8: the competition has not been so great. The a SEC
Speaker 8: is historically bad this year. Uh, that may benefit Duke.
Speaker 8: I don't know, like the somethings that I feel like
Speaker 8: you played a week league like in Zaga, you know
Speaker 8: has proven over the years is consistently getting you know,
Speaker 8: barely deep into the tournament. I mean a number of
Speaker 8: sweet sixteens in a row. You don't have that, like
Speaker 8: physical wear and tear playing against these weaker teams. We'll
Speaker 8: see if that benefits Duke or not. But I mean
Speaker 8: it's pretty clear right now Duke and Auburn I think
Speaker 8: are the two best teams in the country. Houston is
Speaker 8: extremely close to them. I mean I would not put
Speaker 8: up a fight if you said Houston was in that
Speaker 8: group as well, and then there's maybe a little bit
Speaker 8: of a well more sizeable drop off after that.
Speaker 1: Does Houston have a peer in the Big twelve?
Speaker 2: I mean, I have your model in front of me,
Speaker 2: I have your rankings in front of me, but I
Speaker 2: ask it because every time I watch Houston it just
Speaker 2: feels almost unfair. I Mean, we talked about the ute
Speaker 2: game where I'm watching it, Like, if you didn't know
Speaker 2: anything about these two teams, you turn on the game,
Speaker 2: you'd be like, why are they playing an exhibition game
Speaker 2: with one team that clearly has talent and size and
Speaker 2: strength that the other teams. It was like, Utah barely
Speaker 2: even got looks at the bucket. I think at some
Speaker 2: point they had far more turnovers than field goals all
Speaker 2: game long. And that's just one snap shot. It was
Speaker 2: seventy to thirty six, So not close. But they blow teams,
Speaker 2: you know, out of the gym. They So does duke
Speaker 2: excuse me, does Houston have a peer in the Big
Speaker 2: twelve right now?
Speaker 8: Well, first, let me just say we need to give
Speaker 8: equal opportunity here. Houston also beat BUYU eighty six to
Speaker 8: fifty five, so let's I forget I mean a little
Speaker 8: bit earlier in the year.
Speaker 1: Similar.
Speaker 2: I truly feel like every time I watch them, I'm like,
Speaker 2: it's unfair. They're a lot better than their peers. I
Speaker 2: think they've won something like eleven straight road games and
Speaker 2: commerce play so wild. Yeah, so we're talking about how
Speaker 2: tough it doesn't to win on the road, but uh,
Speaker 2: they they do it somehow, And you are right, I
Speaker 2: mean that they've always the Houston team under Kevin Samson
Speaker 2: has always been characterized by maximum effort.
Speaker 1: You know, five guys on the floor given one hundred percent.
Speaker 8: They're not necessarily the mot skilled team, but you know
Speaker 8: they're gonna give a ton of effort, and they make
Speaker 8: up for a lot of their lack of skill offensively
Speaker 8: by getting a bunch of offensive rebounds. And that's true
Speaker 8: this year. They're still ninth in the country and offensive
Speaker 8: rebound percentage. The thing about this year's team is that
Speaker 8: they're fifth of the country at three point shooting. Like
Speaker 8: this is a team that you know, you watch their
Speaker 8: offense and you think it's it's pretty ugly. Like I
Speaker 8: understand why it's somewhat because they do get loose balls
Speaker 8: and they can create some points that way, but they
Speaker 8: can shoot.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 8: It's really reminiscent of like the twenty nineteen Virginia team
Speaker 8: where you know, Virginia under Tony Bennett for years and
Speaker 8: years had a great defense and we're you know, disciplined
Speaker 8: and did all the things that coaches want you to do,
Speaker 8: and their offense was extremely ugly and then they suddenly
Speaker 8: put together a pretty talented offense and ended up winning
Speaker 8: a national title. And this is really the opportunity here
Speaker 8: for Kevin Samson to to kind of duplicate that because
Speaker 8: it's still a great defensive team. They're still going to hustle,
Speaker 8: They're still going to get the seventy five percent of
Speaker 8: the fifty to fifty balls, if that makes sense. And
Speaker 8: U and their offense is pretty dangerous as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he plays eight guys more than fourteen minutes a night,
Speaker 2: and six of the eight shoot it from three and
Speaker 2: four of them, what excuse me, five of them shoot
Speaker 2: better than forty percent.
Speaker 1: So that's wild.
Speaker 2: An eight man rotation for Calvin Sampson, and I think
Speaker 2: Kevin plays eleven for BYU. Is is there a prefer
Speaker 2: like I can always remember pat Riley as the Knicks
Speaker 2: were approaching the playoffs in practice, he would yell, I
Speaker 2: want my eight.
Speaker 1: Who are going to be my eight? Right? And so
Speaker 1: that's kind of the old school mentality.
Speaker 2: When you're playing tournament basketball or playoff basketball, you trim
Speaker 2: your rotation because so much is at stake. In the NBA,
Speaker 2: there's a little bit of a different trend. Steve Kerr
Speaker 2: has been playing ten to eleven sometimes small guys a night,
Speaker 2: we've seen it from Will as well. Is there a
Speaker 2: new understanding of how many minutes you want each player playing?
Speaker 2: And is Kelvin's approach of kind of old school eight
Speaker 2: man rotation an outlier these days, which is just.
Speaker 8: Date that might be a little bit short, but you're
Speaker 8: not seeing a lot of guys the college level playing
Speaker 8: ten or eleven. And I we should point out even
Speaker 8: Kevin Young, like the other night, Kennon Catchings really didn't
Speaker 8: get off the bench. So even though there may have
Speaker 8: been eleven guys in the box score, like you know,
Speaker 8: ultimately he decided to go with Tray Stewart for a
Speaker 8: lot of the minutes there, and Catchings the guy who
Speaker 8: was starting early in the season, you know, suddenly he
Speaker 8: finds himself really not getting off the bench. So the
Speaker 8: other thing is once you get to the tournament or
Speaker 8: the playoffs in the NBA, like inevitably.
Speaker 1: The rotations are are going to shrink.
Speaker 8: So I would imagine, you know, if we see BYU
Speaker 8: in the tournament, you know they're gonna get They're gonna
Speaker 8: find their eight guys that they really like, and if
Speaker 8: there's foul trouble, they know they can go nine or ten. Deep,
Speaker 8: but for the most part, you want your best guys
Speaker 8: out there, and you know, Kellen SAMs doesn't have much
Speaker 8: of a choice as rotation drops off pretty pretty badly
Speaker 8: after after eight guys.
Speaker 1: So that's why you see the minutes distribution for that
Speaker 1: team that you do.
Speaker 2: Craig's rotation for the utes seems to really depend on
Speaker 2: the opponent. They're really there's not a ton of consistency.
Speaker 2: I do think he's settled on his five and Jake
Speaker 2: Wallen has played better than I thought he could. He
Speaker 2: had a double double against Kansas, he had twelve boards.
Speaker 2: But it really does depend on the night. And sometimes
Speaker 2: I watched Keano does and feel like he needs more
Speaker 2: minutes and could they use you know, myro Little's ball
Speaker 2: handling a little bit more. Is it really predicated on
Speaker 2: whatever the night needs. As far as the way Craig
Speaker 2: has handled his rotation, Yeah.
Speaker 8: It seems like it seems like there's a little you know,
Speaker 8: positional bias there as well, like they're a little more
Speaker 8: loaded in the wing category and so they can go
Speaker 8: a little deeper into into that well as opposed to
Speaker 8: the big category.
Speaker 1: You know, he mentioned like lovering being kind.
Speaker 8: Of left on the floor and in crucial moments to
Speaker 8: despite the fact that he's kind of a liability from
Speaker 8: the free throw line, and I think he's just like
Speaker 8: clearly the best option there for other reasons, and so
Speaker 8: Craig alects to kind of kind of go that direction.
Speaker 8: But you know, the Utah situation is slightly different too,
Speaker 8: I think where there's maybe not like obvious stars on
Speaker 8: the team, you know, Gabe Mad's and notwithstanding, I don't
Speaker 8: don't know if he's not really a star caliber type
Speaker 8: of guy, but I think clearly one of the better
Speaker 8: offensive options.
Speaker 1: But for the most part, there's some interchangeable parts.
Speaker 8: There and so he can he can mix and match
Speaker 8: things as the game situation requires.
Speaker 2: Tell me what you've seen from Mark Pope in his
Speaker 2: first year in Kentucky. I mean, obviously that is for
Speaker 2: our listeners that aren't totally familiar. If you think of
Speaker 2: the craziest fan base, well whatever sport that you're thinking of,
Speaker 2: Kentucky basketball fans are that for college hoops, Big Blue Nation,
Speaker 2: they are wild.
Speaker 1: And the majority of the.
Speaker 2: Reaction after Mark was hired was not positive because I
Speaker 2: think Mark was either their fourth or fifth choice. From
Speaker 2: what I read and obviously John Calipari. He did a
Speaker 2: great job of acquiring talents, not such a great job
Speaker 2: of winning consistently. He did win a national championship, of course,
Speaker 2: which you have to give him a lot of credit.
Speaker 2: And it hasn't been great for Calipari year one in Arkansas.
Speaker 2: But what about year one for Mark Pope in Kentucky.
Speaker 2: I would call it a success.
Speaker 8: Yeah, as you mentioned, he did get hired a little
Speaker 8: bit late because they were looking at other candidates. There's
Speaker 8: a pretty high profile courting of Scott Drew in there,
Speaker 8: but ultimately settled on Mark and you know, it's worked
Speaker 8: out pretty well. I mean, I think there were some
Speaker 8: questions about the roster coming into the season. He didn't
Speaker 8: really get high profile transfers. I would say he got
Speaker 8: a bunch of good transfers and he's, you know, ultimately
Speaker 8: messed those guys together pretty well.
Speaker 1: He's dealt with some injuries.
Speaker 8: They've been out a couple of starters and Jackson Robinson
Speaker 8: and Lamont Butler in the past few games and still
Speaker 8: are are hanging on. They swept Tennessee this year. You know,
Speaker 8: they're just seven and six in conference. But it's also
Speaker 8: a brutal conference, and they're going to easily make the
Speaker 8: tournament and get a decent seed, and if they can
Speaker 8: get healthy, you know, they'll be a pretty dangerous team
Speaker 8: in the tournament. They're now at that group of teams
Speaker 8: that we talked about earlier, but perhaps in a second
Speaker 8: group of teams that you know you take a flyer
Speaker 8: on in your bracket to get to the final four.
Speaker 2: So I'm a child of the Big East ken as
Speaker 2: you know, going to the biggest tournament's preseason Big East tournaments.
Speaker 2: It was the Ray Allen Allen Iverson battle back in
Speaker 2: the day with Georgetown and Yukon. I was there for
Speaker 2: Mello's preseason Big East Tournament when he's a freshman at Syracuse.
Speaker 2: So I got to ask you about the Johnnies. Our
Speaker 2: moral compass. Rick Patino has taken over that program, and
Speaker 2: say what you want about him, the guy can coach
Speaker 2: Kenny I mean Davon Smith, right, he's former uts. There
Speaker 2: you have them at sixteen year the model. What stands
Speaker 2: out about the Johnny's.
Speaker 8: This year, Well, their defense has been extremely impressive, number
Speaker 8: two in the country, number six in the country in
Speaker 8: two point percentage defense. Really kind of a makeup, you know,
Speaker 8: similar to say Houston, where it's like not a not
Speaker 8: a sexy offense, but you know you're gonna get maximum
Speaker 8: effort out of these guys, and not necessarily big vertically,
Speaker 8: but a bunch of thick guys. You know, they're just
Speaker 8: really are physical and you know that comes into it
Speaker 8: comes in handy down the stretch when the officials might
Speaker 8: be calling slightly fewer fouls and letting a little more
Speaker 8: go as we get into these late season games. So
Speaker 8: it's not a it's not a you know, not a
Speaker 8: pretty team to watch, but they do get results. I
Speaker 8: mean you just feel like when you're watching them, they
Speaker 8: are you know, they're giving you maximum. Ever, they're not
Speaker 8: leaving anything out on the corner to the extend that
Speaker 8: they lose games, which they've only done four times this year,
Speaker 8: and we should point out they have four.
Speaker 1: They have four losses this year.
Speaker 8: Okay, one by two points, one by one point, one
Speaker 8: by three points, and one in double overtime.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's wild. They're pretty close to being undefeated. Guys
Speaker 1: like that's a yeah.
Speaker 8: Rick Bettino certainly still say what do you want about
Speaker 8: the guy? Obviously a value higher for Saint John's one
Speaker 8: of the best coaches in the game.
Speaker 2: All right, before I say you loose, I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: say this is a hot take because you have them
Speaker 2: highly ranked in your model. But Auburn the number two
Speaker 2: team in the country, number one team in the SEC.
Speaker 1: How close?
Speaker 2: Every time I've watched Florida this year, like you know,
Speaker 2: and maybe I'm not paid enough attention because my thought is,
Speaker 2: like they should be talked about more, Like every time
Speaker 2: I watch them, they look elite.
Speaker 1: Are they a legit threat to Auburn and the SEC?
Speaker 8: I think they're a legit threat to like they should
Speaker 8: have national championships type goals.
Speaker 1: Let's get that way. They're not.
Speaker 8: They're on the level of those top three teams. But
Speaker 8: they're the next team in line, which has been consistently
Speaker 8: really good this year. To go ten and three in
Speaker 8: conference play, again in the best conference and maybe the
Speaker 8: history of basketball is is pretty impressive. So they all,
Speaker 8: they got all that going for him. And again a
Speaker 8: team that, unlike those top three, kind of came out
Speaker 8: of nowhere. Mean those top three teams that I'm talking about,
Speaker 8: they were all top three in my preseason ratings.
Speaker 1: Florida was twenty six in my preseason ratings.
Speaker 8: I think they were like twenty in the AP But anyway,
Speaker 8: those team that people thought would be good but not great,
Speaker 8: and maybe people are waiting for them to, you know,
Speaker 8: come back down to earth, but there's really been no
Speaker 8: sign of that.
Speaker 1: Three twenty five games.
Speaker 2: All right, Ken, we are eight days away from March,
Speaker 2: which is wild and I can't wait because you know, basketball, golf,
Speaker 2: all the things I enjoy.
Speaker 1: It's really awesome.
Speaker 2: So for people that are about to fill out brackets,
Speaker 2: your family's going to send you an email, Your work's
Speaker 2: going to send you an email. I utilize your stuff
Speaker 2: every time I sit down to do mine. Let's be clear,
Speaker 2: there's no perfect model. If there was, Ken would be
Speaker 2: a billionaire. What about an island by now? But how
Speaker 2: can people go get your work?
Speaker 8: They can just go to Kenpalm dot com and sign
Speaker 8: up for one year of a subscription. You get access
Speaker 8: to a whole bunch of great data on the team
Speaker 8: and player level, and it's good for twelve months, so
Speaker 8: it's not just for the end of the tournament, but
Speaker 8: you'll be able to use it well into next season.
Speaker 1: All right, Ken, Good stuff man, good to see? All right?
Speaker 1: All right?
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Speaker 2: It's gonna do a little sports court on the program
Speaker 2: today coming up. We'll call that about twenty five thirty
Speaker 2: minutes right now, five o'clock hour of the program. After that,
Speaker 2: Craig Smith Coaches Show follows our show to Taco with
Speaker 2: Utah Hoops, and then we will have the Four Nations
Speaker 2: Face Final right here on ESPN seven hundred between Canada
Speaker 2: and the US.
Speaker 1: Our next guest front of the show.
Speaker 2: But it's been a while, it's been too long, A mean,
Speaker 2: Al Hassen back on the drive on a Thursday, I mean,
Speaker 2: happy Thursday, sir.
Speaker 1: How you been doing well?
Speaker 6: Doing well?
Speaker 4: Can complaint.
Speaker 1: There you go, appreciate the time.
Speaker 2: So let's get your reaction to the news of the
Speaker 2: day today, Victor wiman Yama will miss the rest of
Speaker 2: the season with a blood clot. Blood clot in his shoulder. Now,
Speaker 2: my first my first thought, I mean, was Chris Bosh.
Speaker 2: I hate to say it, but it just was. Now,
Speaker 2: this is in his shoulder, not his lower leg. We've
Speaker 2: seen Aman Thompson deal with this, brandon Ingram deal with this,
Speaker 2: and a lot of Spurs fans probably be pretty nervous
Speaker 2: about the news.
Speaker 1: What's your reaction.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was taping my show Oddball with Izzy Gutierrez
Speaker 4: when the news broke, and he was the one that
Speaker 4: had to kind of remind me of brandon Ingram and
Speaker 4: and Thompson because originally my first thought was Chris Bosh.
Speaker 4: And then a good friend of mine, John Shoemate, who
Speaker 4: passed away not too long ago, a couple of weeks ago. Actually,
Speaker 4: he was a top five pick in the draft. He
Speaker 4: a storage career at Notre Dame, but his career was
Speaker 4: first like interrupted several times in the clotting, and then
Speaker 4: eventually he had to retire because of blood clouding. And
Speaker 4: so it's a very serious issue. It's not necessarily kind
Speaker 4: of a end to his career. As we said, there
Speaker 4: have been plenty of examples of guys who got on
Speaker 4: the medication, got it sorted out, and came back and
Speaker 4: were perfectly fine, And I don't have to deal with
Speaker 4: it again. But it just, you know, it's one of
Speaker 4: those things where I think we all have to be
Speaker 4: cognizant today. None of this stuff is guaranteed. And you know,
Speaker 4: you hope that the kid bounces back right because he's
Speaker 4: been such a breath of pressure for the league, not
Speaker 4: only with his play, but with his personality and kind
Speaker 4: of his genuine energy when it comes to the game
Speaker 4: of basketball.
Speaker 2: So, based off of what I was reading, this is
Speaker 2: an instant shut it down entirely for six month situation,
Speaker 2: based off of the medication that you have to take
Speaker 2: right away. Because a blood cloud is not a sprained ankle.
Speaker 2: You have to take action immediately to make sure that
Speaker 2: you're taking care of just as a person less loan
Speaker 2: a basketball player, what do you think this process is
Speaker 2: going to be like, Because if it's a six month shutdown,
Speaker 2: he's going to be knocking on the door just to
Speaker 2: get ready for the starting next season. So what do
Speaker 2: you think the next six to seven months are going
Speaker 2: to look like for Victor wemen Yama.
Speaker 4: Well, frustrating. It's got to be frustrated for sure, because
Speaker 4: one of the things that you really enjoy doing, you're
Speaker 4: not going to be able to do.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 4: You know. The conversation that is he and I had was,
Speaker 4: you know, these kind of live events kind of take
Speaker 4: one or two paths on people impacts on people. One
Speaker 4: is the this is another challenge, and I'm going to
Speaker 4: teach this challenge and I'll come back better than ever
Speaker 4: and kind of you know, this almost determination that comes
Speaker 4: from it. The other is, oh my god, I've been
Speaker 4: racing my life worried about things that really don't matter,
Speaker 4: and now that life and death has entered the equation,
Speaker 4: I'm going to cherish the things that do matter, like
Speaker 4: family and friendship and quality of life and all that.
Speaker 4: I tend to think that Webbin Yama is more of
Speaker 4: the former, simply because I think he's already someone who's
Speaker 4: with a healthy work life balance. He seems to be
Speaker 4: well rounded, he's got interests, he's not afraid of expressing
Speaker 4: his interests that are not basketball. So I kind of
Speaker 4: feel like he's going to look at it as just
Speaker 4: another challenge to be did rather than a wake up
Speaker 4: call that he's been living in life the wrong way.
Speaker 1: What do you think?
Speaker 2: And I'm chuckling because I'm just picturing. Look, San Antonio
Speaker 2: twenty three wins and the Jazz have thirteen. The Pelicans
Speaker 2: have thirteen. So there's still a major gap between where
Speaker 2: the Spurs are now and some of the worst teams
Speaker 2: in the league Washington with nine wins.
Speaker 1: But what do you think the Spurs do now?
Speaker 2: Do you think they completely just like shut it down
Speaker 2: and try to get another top lottery pick in a
Speaker 2: draft that's absolutely packed, Like, what's the rest of the
Speaker 2: year look like for the San Antonio Spurs?
Speaker 4: Oh, Spencer, are you asking me if the Spurs are
Speaker 4: going to play Capture the Flag?
Speaker 1: Yes? Are you exactly what I'm asking you?
Speaker 4: And the San Antonio Spurs the team that went to
Speaker 4: the Western Conference Finals in nineteen ninety five and had
Speaker 4: the MVP of the league and the next year won
Speaker 4: fifty five fifty six games, and then the year after
Speaker 4: that had an unfortunate injuries in a franchise player just
Speaker 4: happened to be the same year that this can't miss
Speaker 4: that to wake for us, it's coming out. And then
Speaker 4: they got them, and then and all of a sudden
Speaker 4: they were good again with the best player generationally, probably
Speaker 4: for his entire class. Are you asking me if that's
Speaker 4: gonna happen against man? Is that what you're kind of questioning?
Speaker 2: If you want my third eye to be open, I'll
Speaker 2: ask you if this is really a blood clot, bro
Speaker 2: I can go as deep as you want.
Speaker 4: Nah, I'm sure the Spurs, though, you know, moved fine.
Speaker 4: They would never they would never step something up.
Speaker 2: Oh goodness, gracious, you know it's us. It's cruel because
Speaker 2: I feel like the Jazz should have done what they're
Speaker 2: doing now a few years ago when this kid was available,
Speaker 2: you know, But instead the Jazz decided to be fine
Speaker 2: being average for a couple of years, and they had
Speaker 2: some late lottery picks and these kids just really haven't
Speaker 2: popped very much. So I understand what you're saying, tongue
Speaker 2: in cheek, But the Spurs did exactly what they should
Speaker 2: have done a few years ago, and the Jazz didn't,
Speaker 2: and now we're kind of paying the price for it
Speaker 2: around here.
Speaker 11: It is.
Speaker 4: It is remarkable, right, that every time there's a generational
Speaker 4: talent youse, guys just happen to have like the the
Speaker 4: on ramp to being terrible, terrible at the right time,
Speaker 4: and not terrible for too long. Right, you don't have
Speaker 4: to deal with a whole lot of terrible in pan Antonio.
Speaker 4: They're just gonna be terrible for this small window, and
Speaker 4: it seems to work out for them.
Speaker 1: It sure does. It sure does.
Speaker 2: So whether it's intelligence, timing, or luck or accommodation of
Speaker 2: all three, you gotta give them a lot of credit.
Speaker 2: But let's have a little fun now with the Utah Jazz,
Speaker 2: and let's say, for the first time in jazz history,
Speaker 2: the Jazz actually get lottery luck. The Jazz have been
Speaker 2: in a lottery nine times and they've never moved up.
Speaker 2: If they're able to cash in on this really difficult
Speaker 2: season for a fan base around here that used to winning,
Speaker 2: to digest and snag Cooper Flag number one, and they
Speaker 2: roll in the next season with the front court of
Speaker 2: Walker Kesher, Larry Market and Cooper Flag, a front court
Speaker 2: that would be very popular around here.
Speaker 1: I'll just leave it there.
Speaker 2: Uh, then we're kind of onto something, aren't we Like
Speaker 2: if this this entire process leads to that maybe this
Speaker 2: fan base has something to latch onto.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just want to point out how staggered I am.
Speaker 4: He said, the Jazz have been to the lottery nine
Speaker 4: times in their in their franchise history.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I've never moved up.
Speaker 4: I mean like, okay, never moved up. Feels like, oh wow,
Speaker 4: that's that's kind of tough. But so only been there
Speaker 4: nine times? Yeah, yep, pretty remarkable. I mean it's and
Speaker 4: by the way, three of them, so thirty three percent
Speaker 4: of them, we're in that right now. That's that's very, very,
Speaker 4: very remarkable. No, you know, obviously, you know, Cooper Flag
Speaker 4: is a kind of talent where you could thirty teams
Speaker 4: and they all need a Cooper Flag. Utah is kind
Speaker 4: of look, Denny As has a vision of how to
Speaker 4: do this, He's done it before, and what we're seeing
Speaker 4: is kind of, you know, the same sort of formula
Speaker 4: in terms of when you look at the deals and
Speaker 4: you look at him getting involved in that layer, this
Speaker 4: Maverage deal as a third party, not even knowing who
Speaker 4: the deal is for all of that kind of accumulation, accumulation, accumulation.
Speaker 4: He's doing this in the same way he did it
Speaker 4: in the mid two thousands when he realized that Paul
Speaker 4: Pierce alone wasn't gonna get it done and he needed
Speaker 4: to make a bold move. And so the question becomes,
Speaker 4: and I think this is the part where everyone gets frustrated,
Speaker 4: is you say, what is that bold move going to be? Well,
Speaker 4: you don't know. And I think that's the thing when
Speaker 4: you know, way back when I think of Philadelphia, when
Speaker 4: people were praising Sam Hinky Oh for him doing this
Speaker 4: and he's accumulating picks, and this is the way to
Speaker 4: do it if you're not first your last Ricky Bobby style.
Speaker 4: And what I said at the time is on paper, yeah,
Speaker 4: that's what you do. But this thing doesn't happen on paper.
Speaker 4: And you've got ownership to answer to. And even owners
Speaker 4: who can pretend they're bought in and it from tech
Speaker 4: to finance and they understand these kind of processes, Ultimately,
Speaker 4: they still have kids whould go to school and get
Speaker 4: teams because their dad owns the team and ruined it.
Speaker 4: So your capacity to run this playbook in essence is
Speaker 4: directly proportionate to how confident you are in the ownership
Speaker 4: behind you, sticking behind you in the case of Sam
Speaker 4: Presty g had full rams. You could do it forever,
Speaker 4: and they were never going to give up on them
Speaker 4: because they knew, hey, we got ourselves one of the
Speaker 4: best guys in the league. Does Denny Aide have that
Speaker 4: sort of job security with Ryan Smith? I don't know.
Speaker 4: One would think because his track record and obviously who
Speaker 4: he is locally, one would think that he's got that
Speaker 4: job security. But again, hell have no fury like my
Speaker 4: kids coming home from school crime because they got made
Speaker 4: fun of.
Speaker 2: Well, look, I think the answer to the job security
Speaker 2: security question is Danny has tremendous job security. I mean,
Speaker 2: Ryan has been front facing about how much of a
Speaker 2: fan he always was of Danny, because Ryan's a big
Speaker 2: BYU fan, and then obviously Danny goes on to do
Speaker 2: great things in pro basketball. This was born out of
Speaker 2: a fan relationship between the owner and the executive far
Speaker 2: more than it was born out of a friendship. Now
Speaker 2: it seems that it has become that now, and I'm
Speaker 2: sure Danny appreciates this ability to not necessarily put in
Speaker 2: the same type of ground where Xanik does, yet get
Speaker 2: paid a lot more money and kind of swoop in
Speaker 2: what he needs to and I know that he's involved,
Speaker 2: but Justin's the one that seems to be doing the.
Speaker 1: Work on the ground. But here's here's the question.
Speaker 2: Based off of the dynamic, Ryan fancies himself as a
Speaker 2: basketball guy. He's in the meetings, he has input, and
Speaker 2: I can tell you that both Dennis Lindsay and Quinn
Speaker 2: Snyder had just one meeting with ownership. It was like, nope,
Speaker 2: I'm good in your history around the league, meddaling owner
Speaker 2: to think they're basketball people.
Speaker 1: How does that typically work out?
Speaker 4: Well, it's funny that you mentioned that the relationship with
Speaker 4: between Danny and Ryan was born out of a fandom,
Speaker 4: because to answer your question, that's some think of another
Speaker 4: owner GM combo that was born out of a fandom
Speaker 4: was Robert Tarbar and Steve Kerr in Phoenix. Robert Tarber
Speaker 4: was the university that I was on a grad and
Speaker 4: he was a big fan of Steve pr at U
Speaker 4: of A. He's obviously a big fan of Seve Peirr
Speaker 4: as an NBA player, And you know, at first it
Speaker 4: was like that, it was like, yeah, he listened to Steve,
Speaker 4: and then at some point Robert just thought he knew
Speaker 4: better and so anything that Steve came up with that
Speaker 4: we came up with. As a staff, Robert would basically
Speaker 4: second gas and leak to other people asking them their opinions,
Speaker 4: and our business was down in the streets. So typically,
Speaker 4: what I found is the more your owner thinks he
Speaker 4: knows basketball, the more dangerous your owner become right, because
Speaker 4: he's much more likely to believe. Look, I get it,
Speaker 4: I understand. I'm not like these other guys.
Speaker 5: I am.
Speaker 4: I am. I'm cool, right, And as we all know
Speaker 4: from high school, the guy who announces he's cool not
Speaker 4: really cool. Right. The cool guy doesn't have to announce
Speaker 4: he's cool, he just is. And typically these owners who
Speaker 4: think they know what they're talking about are not. They
Speaker 4: don't know what they're talking about. I'll give you another example,
Speaker 4: A current example is Matt hb in Phoenix, who I
Speaker 4: would say, legitimately, good thing. I know basketball. I played
Speaker 4: high level V one basketball, I won a national championship.
Speaker 4: I played for Togas, one of the greatest coaches of
Speaker 4: all time. I'm friends with Isaia Namas, I'm friends with
Speaker 4: Jason Register, I'm friends with all these great NBA players,
Speaker 4: Zach Randolph, etcetera, etcetera. So if with anyone who would say, oh,
Speaker 4: I actually know this stuff, it's matt Eshbia, and yet
Speaker 4: that hasn't really turned out great. I'll give you another one.
Speaker 4: And he may have heard of this guy, Michael Jeffrey
Speaker 4: Jordan's son. I say he knew basketball and in any
Speaker 4: of us, but when put in that position to be
Speaker 4: the final saying, he turns out he wasn't that great
Speaker 4: at running a basketball team, because at some point it
Speaker 4: gets in the way. At some point your know it all,
Speaker 4: this gets in the way, and ultimately the best owner
Speaker 4: is the owner that at the end of the year
Speaker 4: says this is the number. You can't spend over it,
Speaker 4: and we come to an agreement on what the expectations are.
Speaker 4: And then I don't do anything. I just sit back
Speaker 4: and watch the show. And at the end of the
Speaker 4: year we look at the numbers. We look at like
Speaker 4: where we were according to a excerctations. If there are
Speaker 4: things that make us alter the plan midway through, we
Speaker 4: have a conversation about that. But the more your hands
Speaker 4: on and they're sitting on meetings and all that and
Speaker 4: giving your opinion, the more you end up kind of
Speaker 4: what I would like to pay Medio results.
Speaker 2: One more jazz thing, because you're good at this and
Speaker 2: you can make it interesting. There's not a lot of
Speaker 2: things topically with this roster that I really care to
Speaker 2: ask you about, because we all know the deal, we
Speaker 2: all know what they're doing. But this is a fan base,
Speaker 2: as we outlined with nine lottery appearances, it indicates that
Speaker 2: this fan base is used to winning basketball. Now, we
Speaker 2: haven't had a championship out here, and if I'm honest,
Speaker 2: we haven't had a championship team here since nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: eight in my opinion, and that was John and Carl's
Speaker 2: best and quite frankly last chance to get it done.
Speaker 2: And of course Mike took rings off their fingers as
Speaker 2: he did to our guy, Pat Ewing and Sean Kemp
Speaker 2: and Gary Payton, Charles Barkley.
Speaker 1: We could keep going.
Speaker 2: It is a fan base that's used to winning and
Speaker 2: is championship thirsty. What's a reasonable expectation during this process
Speaker 2: where it is askedet accumulation, You hope a young player
Speaker 2: two pops, then you hope you get lottery luck. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's as reductive as I can be about what they're
Speaker 2: trying to do. What's in that reason expectation to this
Speaker 2: fan base is to win. Winning basketball might be back
Speaker 2: in Salt Lake City.
Speaker 4: Well, I think then we have to define what winning is.
Speaker 4: Is winning winning a championship? I don't know, maybe never
Speaker 4: I that's something that everyone has to come to grips with,
Speaker 4: every fan in the league except for the Lakers, So
Speaker 4: how do they keep doing it? But everyone else you
Speaker 4: have to come to grips with. If your thing is
Speaker 4: my destination championship, you gotta be ready that you may
Speaker 4: never see that destination. So what do you want to
Speaker 4: see in the meantime. You want to see growth, you
Speaker 4: want to see improvement, and you want to see standards right.
Speaker 4: And the thing I always go back to Sam Presty
Speaker 4: and Oklahoma City Thunder and comparing contrasting what he did
Speaker 4: versus what Sam Hinky did in Philadelphia. In Philadelphia, Sam
Speaker 4: Hinky said, I need to be terrible so I can
Speaker 4: get all these lottery picks and just be a clearing
Speaker 4: house for other people's craft so I could get keep
Speaker 4: getting lottery picks. And uh, he did that by stocking
Speaker 4: his rocks or with players who were not NBA talents.
Speaker 4: No disrespectful guys. They just weren't NBA caliber players. There
Speaker 4: were guys who in a regular situation would never make
Speaker 4: an NBA team, but in this situation, because they're trying
Speaker 4: to be as bad as possible, welcome aboard. And he
Speaker 4: did that over years, and then even as he hit
Speaker 4: on some of his guys, he refused to stock his
Speaker 4: roster with vets. He refused to have any sort of
Speaker 4: semblance of we're going to play competitive, tough basketball. We're
Speaker 4: just gonna get blown out every night. And the contrast
Speaker 4: is the Oklahoma City Thunderwear. Yes they were doing the
Speaker 4: same thing. Yes they're trying to be bad. Yes they
Speaker 4: were getting a lot of their pictures to their cleaning house,
Speaker 4: But beyond hitting on their picks, they maintained the entire
Speaker 4: time this is the standard. The people talk about heat culture.
Speaker 4: They got thunder culture over there, and we have standards
Speaker 4: and we're going to do things the right way. Win
Speaker 4: or lose, it doesn't matter. These are the expectations. And
Speaker 4: so what happens is the players that you have there
Speaker 4: are growing up in a system and in a culture
Speaker 4: that is positive and a winning culture. Despite those standings
Speaker 4: not being that to me, if I'm a bad team
Speaker 4: and if I'm a fan of a bad franchise, that's
Speaker 4: what I want to see. I want to see players
Speaker 4: that execute. I want to see players that defend and
Speaker 4: play both tide of ball. I want to see players
Speaker 4: that are developing and be able to do both. You know,
Speaker 4: multiple things are supposed to being specialists, right, and I
Speaker 4: want to see my team be competitive even if we
Speaker 4: win twelve games all year long. I want us to
Speaker 4: be I want us to win twelve games, lose seventy
Speaker 4: games by five points, seven points, nine points like I
Speaker 4: wanted to be. I want us to be leading and
Speaker 4: then we blew the lead down the stretch. Like those
Speaker 4: are the type of losses where you can walk away
Speaker 4: and say we had a legitimate chance and either we
Speaker 4: got out talented or we made mistakes of youth that
Speaker 4: we will not make in the future. And if you're Utah,
Speaker 4: that's if you're a jazz on, I think we look
Speaker 4: at this team. You want to see players that play hard.
Speaker 4: You want to see players that are competing, and if
Speaker 4: they're losing due to bad decisions, like when the Collier
Speaker 4: kid waves off Colin Sexton to still get an eight
Speaker 4: second count, you want that to be seared in his brain.
Speaker 4: So I think he becomes a number one time a
Speaker 4: time in sport situation type of player.
Speaker 1: So well, I want to move over here.
Speaker 2: Have we had Tom Haerstrawn and Zach Harper on this
Speaker 2: week and so we've talked to friends of yours, coworkers
Speaker 2: of yours about All Star Weekend, And I think I'm
Speaker 2: just now resigned.
Speaker 1: Look, for thirty years or forty years.
Speaker 2: It was the best pickup basketball game in the world,
Speaker 2: and it was awesome, and it wasn't every year, and
Speaker 2: they didn't play hard one through forty eight.
Speaker 1: I understand that.
Speaker 2: And the reason why I still bemoan what it's become
Speaker 2: is I miss that what it once was. Is there
Speaker 2: any going back or at this point is it just
Speaker 2: going to be an undigestible weekend regardless of everybody yelling
Speaker 2: about how bad it is.
Speaker 4: There is a going back. Unfortunately, the guy who is
Speaker 4: going to do that for us is out for the
Speaker 4: rest of the year with a blood clout. Hopefully he's
Speaker 4: fine next year, but it starts in the locker room.
Speaker 4: All of these fixes that they've tried, elam ending, draft
Speaker 4: your own team, many tournament like, all of these things
Speaker 4: they all come down to one simple premise, which is
Speaker 4: the twenty four guys in that locker room, for whatever reason,
Speaker 4: aren't taking it seriously, and so we're going to do
Speaker 4: whatever we can to manufactor something that causes them to
Speaker 4: ticket seriously. I thought the tournament, the basketball part of it,
Speaker 4: the basketball part of it, was an improvement over the
Speaker 4: last three or four years. We got competitive basketball for
Speaker 4: the first time. I thought the rising stars in their game,
Speaker 4: they actually that was the best game of the three
Speaker 4: that we saw on Sunday. I thought that the championship
Speaker 4: game was okay, it was decent. I thought the first
Speaker 4: game was kind of lackadaisical. But the point is they
Speaker 4: created this gimmick because they wanted guys to burn calories.
Speaker 4: Like you said, we're not asking for one through forty eight.
Speaker 4: We're not asking for Game seven intensity. We're not asker
Speaker 4: for going to be the finals intensity. We're not asking
Speaker 4: for playoff intensity. We're not even asking for regular season intensity.
Speaker 4: Can I get preseason intensity? Preseason A preseason intensity looks
Speaker 4: like basketball people want to watch because here's the deal.
Speaker 4: These are the greatest players in the world. They dribble
Speaker 4: better than anybody else, They shoot better than anybody else.
Speaker 4: They don't on people all that stuff. You know what
Speaker 4: makes that crazy crossover, that crazy three pointer, that crazy
Speaker 4: dunk look cool. It's resistance. Resistance makes Oh he tried
Speaker 4: to stop him and he couldn't. He tried to block it,
Speaker 4: you couldn't. Right the moment you remove resistance, it's just
Speaker 4: guys getting shot up before the pickup game starts it again,
Speaker 4: Spencer or maybe at the playground and like we're still
Speaker 4: like we started to figure out what teams are. Guys
Speaker 4: just getting shot up. That's what the altar game has
Speaker 4: become over the last few years. And so until those
Speaker 4: twenty four guys understand, hey, I gottapply a little bit.
Speaker 4: I can't completely treat it like a joke. It's gonna
Speaker 4: stay the way it is, no matter what the format is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well said all right, buddy, before I say
Speaker 2: you lose. I have not been able to catch up
Speaker 2: with you since Luke Tancic was traded to the Lakers,
Speaker 2: and look, man, I like everybody else, the alert popped
Speaker 2: on my phone and I said, no, not real, no chance.
Speaker 2: Like everybody else, I texted everybody that I know in
Speaker 2: the league to try to make sense of this and
Speaker 2: we can't. I guess we can be as reductive as that.
Speaker 2: Nico just didn't like Luca and like Zad, I guess
Speaker 2: that that's the deal. I've talked to more than a
Speaker 2: handful of executives that still don't buy it and believe
Speaker 2: there's something that none of us know. One of them said,
Speaker 2: we'll find out in Summer League when we're all together.
Speaker 2: It didn't make sense then. It still doesn't make sense
Speaker 2: to me. Now, So your reaction when you saw the
Speaker 2: news and now a few weeks later, where are you
Speaker 2: at with that trade?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I saw a DM at All Star weekend and
Speaker 4: the first thing he asked me was what do you
Speaker 4: think happened? Because he couldn't figure it out. We're all
Speaker 4: kind of in the dark, search and trying to make
Speaker 4: sense of nonsense. If we're going to be perfectly honest here,
Speaker 4: I don't know. I think the stuff that has come
Speaker 4: out recently clarify some of it, is that some of
Speaker 4: it is Nico. Nico basically grew up in the NBA
Speaker 4: with Kobe Bryant, or on Kobe Bryant's side. So if
Speaker 4: that's your vision of what a franchise player is I
Speaker 4: can imagine how because not just to be a jarring departure, right, Like,
Speaker 4: that's got to be the crazy like from this guy
Speaker 4: who's a workaholic, waits up at four in the morning
Speaker 4: and you know it doesn't put any poison. So that
Speaker 4: speaking his body to the deer drinking, hookah smoking, lovable,
Speaker 4: affable guy like who's never in shape, Like, it has
Speaker 4: to be a complete departure from everything you believed in.
Speaker 4: Right he got ownership that also has like, you know,
Speaker 4: shaky kind of aspirations. I think you want to talk
Speaker 4: about another situation where ownership is kind of meddling. Hearing
Speaker 4: him talk the Patrick Dumont talked to the Dallas Morning
Speaker 4: News and explain kind of his visions and stuff like,
Speaker 4: you're like, oh my god, this guy doesn't sound bright
Speaker 4: at all when it comes to basketball. So I think
Speaker 4: there's a little bit of today. It's always always an
Speaker 4: ownership element in any one of these types of deals.
Speaker 4: I think there's a little bit of Nico Harrison's worldview
Speaker 4: based on his basketball upbringing, and maybe there's something more
Speaker 4: to it than that. If so, like I still go
Speaker 4: back to this, you all these things I named, you
Speaker 4: could tell me Okay, that's why we got to Shae
Speaker 4: Luca Docis. Okay, I see it. I don't agree with it,
Speaker 4: but I see it. But the part where your return
Speaker 4: for him is that that's the part where you lose everybody.
Speaker 4: That's the part where you lose everybody. And so I'll
Speaker 4: say it like like we talked about on Basketball Illuminati
Speaker 4: a couple of weeks ago, whatever it was. Once you've
Speaker 4: made up your mind I have to trade this guy,
Speaker 4: which it sounds like they did. Then why do you
Speaker 4: care if it's a secret or not. Why do you
Speaker 4: care if he's uncomfortable enough? Why do you care if
Speaker 4: the fans are upset or not? At that point, then
Speaker 4: you play it to its natural conclusion and try to
Speaker 4: get as much as a sand form.
Speaker 1: Why Man?
Speaker 2: I still I still whatever. I actually kind of marinate
Speaker 2: on it. I'm like, I still can't believe you do
Speaker 2: this with a twenty five year old global superstar, not
Speaker 2: just transcending talent, global superstar. But we'll see how it
Speaker 2: plays out. Man, Hey, it's been too long. It's great
Speaker 2: to hear your voice. I'll set you loose, have a
Speaker 2: great weekend.
Speaker 1: Okay, thanks a last night, all right, Amino?
Speaker 2: Hassen spent a number of years in NBA front offices
Speaker 2: with the Knicks and the Sons, and he's been on
Speaker 2: the media side of things for about fifteen years now.
Speaker 2: Busy Guy one of those guys that has like seven
Speaker 2: different podcasts at darth Amine is where you find him
Speaker 2: on social He is a Star Wars fan.
Speaker 12: Hey everyone, this is junior to fun. I'll call friends.
Speaker 12: Defensive tackle for the University of Utah football team and football.
Speaker 12: My teammates and I work as a team. Very successful
Speaker 12: when everyone does his part and the team comes first.
Speaker 12: If you get injured in an accident, you need a
Speaker 12: legal team that works together with you and puts you first.
Speaker 12: The lawyers a handy in handy, have an experience, a
Speaker 12: dedicated team of experts helping people who have been injured
Speaker 12: in accidents. They'll take care of you. Called and winning team,
Speaker 12: a handy in handy where the client comes first.
Speaker 13: Handy and handy, big firm experience, small firm. Attention all riz,
Speaker 13: It's time to check in with Preston, Handy and Garrett
Speaker 13: Handy of Handy and handy for sports court.
Speaker 11: Handy and Handy are your accident and personal injury attorneys.
Speaker 11: Ready to assist with any related questions. You may have
Speaker 11: visit them online at Handy Law Utah dot com. Big
Speaker 11: firm Experience, small firm attention. Now let's get out to
Speaker 11: Sports Court on the Drive with Spence. Check its on
Speaker 11: Utah's number one sports talk ESPN seven hundred.
Speaker 1: It is Sportsport Time.
Speaker 2: We do it every Thursday right about now with our
Speaker 2: good friends over at Handy and Handy Note Garrett. Today
Speaker 2: it's just our guy Preston on a Thursday afternoon. Preston,
Speaker 2: Happy Thursday, sir, how are you.
Speaker 6: Hey, Spence? Happy Thursday? How are you?
Speaker 1: I'm well.
Speaker 2: I appreciate the time today. So we'll start out with
Speaker 2: a situation where Donald Trump's transgender athlete band is now
Speaker 2: facing a f DROL lawsuit. Looks like two teenage girls
Speaker 2: from New Hampshire are legally challenging the executive orders.
Speaker 1: Preston, so fill us in here.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so we know, we know that a few weeks
Speaker 6: ago there was an executive order signed by President Trump
Speaker 6: entitled keeping Men out of Women's Sports. And this is
Speaker 6: no new issue. This is something we've talked about a
Speaker 6: number of time on Sports Court, and as a result
Speaker 6: of these issues, states have enacted a lot of laws,
Speaker 6: including the state of Utah, and a lot of these
Speaker 6: laws essentially there's indicating that transgender women should not be
Speaker 6: playing in men's or in women's sports. And a lot
Speaker 6: of these laws are under fire and there the Utah
Speaker 6: law is being litigated right now. But essentially this executive
Speaker 6: order by Trump. You know, we talked about Title nine
Speaker 6: a lot and discrimination based on gender. Well, Trump's order
Speaker 6: basically says allowing transgender athletes to play is in violation
Speaker 6: Title nine. So what he enacted was saying that any
Speaker 6: entities receiving federal funding need to comply with this and
Speaker 6: abide by five Title nine. And another part was that
Speaker 6: if you don't, you could be penalized and lose this funding.
Speaker 6: So a couple of New Hampshire transgender athletes, one a
Speaker 6: tennis player, one a soccer player. Soccer player, they're already
Speaker 6: in litigation and they're litigating a statute in New Hampshire
Speaker 6: basically claiming that it violates a number of constitual rights.
Speaker 6: It's violation of Title nine equal protection discrimination. So it's
Speaker 6: going down the road and the judge in New Hampshire,
Speaker 6: the federal judge in New Hampshire issues at an injunction,
Speaker 6: basically saying we're not going to apply this law right
Speaker 6: now and you're allowed to play for the time being. Well,
Speaker 6: probably getting ahead of it because I think we're going
Speaker 6: to see this. These two girls have now amended their
Speaker 6: lawsuit and decided to include Donald Trump, the United States
Speaker 6: Attorney General, and a bunch of federal officials that have
Speaker 6: been involved in this, including this in it because I
Speaker 6: think they're seeing down the road that well, for challenging
Speaker 6: the state thing, we might as well challenge this at
Speaker 6: this point. And we know there's so many different states
Speaker 6: have different laws, and some states are coming out now
Speaker 6: it's saying that the executive order is and violation of
Speaker 6: their laws. These girls claim that they're in compliance with
Speaker 6: a lot of things because they have puberty blockers, these
Speaker 6: transgender athletes, So it's going to be a hotbed. We
Speaker 6: knew that there was going to be these challenges, and
Speaker 6: I don't think this is the last challenge, of course,
Speaker 6: but they what they've done is they've jumped ahead of
Speaker 6: it and filed lawsuit based on this executive order.
Speaker 2: All right, Moving over now to Ball versus White Sox.
Speaker 2: The former trainer from the White Sox has it looks
Speaker 2: like this discrimination lawsuit has been restored now from what
Speaker 2: I'm reading, Preston, what do we have here?
Speaker 6: Yeah, so this is a t that he was kind
Speaker 6: of there's some downsizing going on with the White Sox organization,
Speaker 6: and it looked like he was going to be let
Speaker 6: go and he was claiming some age discrimination and things
Speaker 6: like that, and so the White Sox they came to
Speaker 6: him and said, hey, you know, we'll essentially pay you
Speaker 6: and buy you out. They so they entered into an agreement,
Speaker 6: and the agreement basically said that he would be paid
Speaker 6: some of the terms that he would be paid for
Speaker 6: a year of pay and for benefits. So he actually
Speaker 6: signed this agreement, and later down the road he found
Speaker 6: out that through someone higher up in the White Sox
Speaker 6: organization that the reason that they were pushing to let
Speaker 6: him go was that he was he is gay. So
Speaker 6: in finding out, he says, oh, hold the phone, So
Speaker 6: he's he filed a lawsuit against the White Sox organization
Speaker 6: and the first defense that the White Sox came back
Speaker 6: to was basically saying, oh, wait a minute, you already
Speaker 6: signed an agreement and we're done here. You this kind
Speaker 6: of covered everything that had you entered into a deal
Speaker 6: with us that addressed what you got paid, you accepted it,
Speaker 6: and you accepted the termination agreement. Well, he got kicked
Speaker 6: out of court. It was dismissed based on that. The
Speaker 6: lower court judge agreed with that and ruled that there
Speaker 6: was an agreement and that he couldn't proceed. Well, he
Speaker 6: appealed it, and the appella judges basically said, no, I
Speaker 6: kind of agree with the trainer. His name is Ball.
Speaker 6: He agreed that, you know, the the validity of the
Speaker 6: termination agreement, you know, may have been procured by fraud,
Speaker 6: and that's a question of fact. And so dismissed at
Speaker 6: this time wasn't the right thing to do, saying that
Speaker 6: maybe he entered into this based on a number of
Speaker 6: reasons and based on pressure of hey, I'm going to
Speaker 6: get fired and they when I might as well jump
Speaker 6: into this and take it. But he also pointed out
Speaker 6: an interesting thing that White Sox officials they never refuted
Speaker 6: why he was actually going. They came back and said, well,
Speaker 6: we really don't need to say why he had heerned
Speaker 6: into the agreement. It was a good faith agreement. It
Speaker 6: was an arms length agreement. He accepted the money, accepted
Speaker 6: the benefits, and he was let go. So he's back
Speaker 6: in the game now and we'll see what happens all right.
Speaker 2: Moving over now, this is interesting Georgia, Alabamail their NIL
Speaker 2: bills could face legal challenges because a couple of bills
Speaker 2: in those states to exempt college athletes and IL income
Speaker 2: from state taxes. Now they're facing a little bit of
Speaker 2: pushback here, but this is something that I think could
Speaker 2: add ramifications following this far reaching beyond these states of
Speaker 2: Georgia and Alabama. If this stuff is kind of pushed through.
Speaker 2: So what's the latest here, give us an update.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so there's no legal challenge to it yet, but
Speaker 6: they're pushing these bills, and essentially these bills, they would
Speaker 6: exempt college athletes from paying state taxes for income they
Speaker 6: earn from NIL money. And looking deep into it, the
Speaker 6: states of Florida, Texas, Tennessee and other states they don't
Speaker 6: have state income tax. And you've got these legislators that
Speaker 6: are big Crimson Tipe fans and Georgia Bulldog fans, and
Speaker 6: they're going, oh, wait a minute, this might hurt us
Speaker 6: in our recruiting battles because if you go to an
Speaker 6: athlete and say, hey, here's your NIL contract, here's the
Speaker 6: money you're gonna make. Oh and by the way, guess what,
Speaker 6: in our state, you don't even have to pay state
Speaker 6: income tax. So Georgia and Alabama are looking into this going, wow,
Speaker 6: we want to have something here that, even though we
Speaker 6: have state income tax, that we cut out a little
Speaker 6: piece for these athletes. And right our man Michael mccannon,
Speaker 6: who does an analysis, he says that there could potentially
Speaker 6: be a legal challenge, and the challenge would be based
Speaker 6: that non college athletes who earn money in various ways
Speaker 6: not through NIL, guess what they have to pay stay taxes.
Speaker 6: And so what they would claim is that this is
Speaker 6: a violation of the Equal Protection Clause and fourteenth Amendment
Speaker 6: in applying these essentially applying laws you know that aren't
Speaker 6: equal equal. You've got one participant here in one participant here,
Speaker 6: and they're not applied equally. So there could be some challenges.
Speaker 6: I don't know who would challenge that. There might be
Speaker 6: a student that's not an athlete coming in challenges to say, hey,
Speaker 6: this is an a fair fight, and I really don't
Speaker 6: care about Alabama or Georgia football, but it's interesting that,
Speaker 6: as you pointed out early, that the measures that are
Speaker 6: being taken, and especially because it's a complicated issue and
Speaker 6: we know that Utah has enacted some certain things, not
Speaker 6: exactly on the issue of taxes, but on the issue
Speaker 6: of that these contracts aren't, you know, public record.
Speaker 2: Moving over to a story out of the world of
Speaker 2: pro football, the Arizona Cardinals have won a lawsuit that
Speaker 2: was brought by their former VP, Terry McDonough.
Speaker 1: So this was just ruled upon, I believe today fill
Speaker 1: us in.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So, Terry McDonough was a high official VP of
Speaker 6: player personnel with the Cardinals and he got into a
Speaker 6: little bit of a mess with some of the uppers
Speaker 6: and he, you know, and about some burner phones and
Speaker 6: things like that, and you know, it looked like he
Speaker 6: was going to get let go, and so he made
Speaker 6: claims that he was being let go because of age
Speaker 6: discrimination and breach of contract and things like that. And
Speaker 6: the Cardinals, and I don't think they dispute this. They
Speaker 6: took kind of an aggressive position. They hired a pr
Speaker 6: PR firm, and the PR firm came out with some
Speaker 6: what he alleges to some defaming comments about him. Comments
Speaker 6: about his personal life follow fol demeanor, disturbing allegation of
Speaker 6: a domestic violence and responsibility for his kids. And this
Speaker 6: was all kind of a PR thing kind of coming
Speaker 6: at Terry McDonough. And so I think the interesting legal
Speaker 6: issue here is, and there's a couple of inconsistent things
Speaker 6: that he actually did go to arbitration and got an
Speaker 6: award of two point six million, But the other part
Speaker 6: was his lawsuit was dismissed. And here's where it gets
Speaker 6: interesting because we've talked about this with Brian Flores Gruden.
Speaker 6: All kinds of contracts that basically say, hey, if you're
Speaker 6: part of the NFL or part of the NBA, we
Speaker 6: have an agreement that these kind of disputes they're not
Speaker 6: going to hit the courts. They got to be submitted
Speaker 6: to arbitration. That's just better for our organizations. And we
Speaker 6: see those a lot. And basically his claim was, and
Speaker 6: I think it's a pretty interesting claim. He's saying, wait
Speaker 6: a minute, but this is my claim against a PR firm,
Speaker 6: and they don't have privity a contract, they're not part
Speaker 6: of the contracts with the league, and they're the ones
Speaker 6: that brought it. But the judge kicked them out, and
Speaker 6: his daughter and wife both brought lawsuits and he kicked
Speaker 6: them out, basically saying that these contracts, that these pr
Speaker 6: firms are agents of the organization in this case, the
Speaker 6: Arizona Cardinals, and that this protection extends to them, and
Speaker 6: so he kicked them out of court with that. So
Speaker 6: these arbitration agreements and these arbitration clauses, they they're far reaching.
Speaker 6: And he just saw that he's kicked out of court.
Speaker 6: We'll see if he appeals.
Speaker 2: All right, final one for today, And you know, I
Speaker 2: hate to dispense any advice to burglars who potentially could
Speaker 2: be listening to the show today, but maybe don't post
Speaker 2: pictures of the things that you stole from the house
Speaker 2: that you stole them from Joe Burrow's. Last week, picture
Speaker 2: surfaced of the guy who stole the merchandise from Joe
Speaker 2: Burrow's house.
Speaker 1: He posted pictures of himself.
Speaker 2: Online wearing Burrows like Jersey and his chain. I believe
Speaker 2: his die in Shane and now the burglars in the
Speaker 2: case of both Travis Kelcey and Patrick Mahomes situations have
Speaker 2: done the same thing. And obviously the Feds are on
Speaker 2: the case. What can you tell us about this. It
Speaker 2: looks like it's becoming a trend, and not a very
Speaker 2: smart one.
Speaker 6: No, I think it is a trend, and I think
Speaker 6: what's interesting, as you mentioned Joe Burrow, we talked about
Speaker 6: last week, and this week it comes out this happened
Speaker 6: in October. But both Mahomes and Kelsey their homes were
Speaker 6: broken into in October. And what is happening is this
Speaker 6: Chilean ring of burglars. They are identifying when these athletes
Speaker 6: are going to be out of their homes. They know
Speaker 6: that they're going to be on the road in a game,
Speaker 6: and in both these cases, Mahomes and Kelsey were out.
Speaker 6: Bobby Portis is also noted in this. And they're sophisticated
Speaker 6: in that way, and they're sophisticated in getting into these homes,
Speaker 6: but you know they're not sophisticated in taking selfies and
Speaker 6: posting them. Because there's a funny one here. And Garrett,
Speaker 6: who's looked at these, he says some of the same guys.
Speaker 6: And these guys are in chiefs jerseys and T shirts
Speaker 6: and holding stacks of watches and different things, and their
Speaker 6: smiles are pretty wide. So the FEDS, the FBI got
Speaker 6: a warrant. And now these guys have been arrested legal
Speaker 6: immigrants and they've been charged with conspiracy to commit interstate
Speaker 6: transportation of stolen property and they said in excess of
Speaker 6: two million dollars in valuable.
Speaker 2: Absolute morons, you know, my goodness, gracious all right, I
Speaker 2: prest him before I set you loose on this Thursday.
Speaker 2: For any of our listeners have any legal questions, how
Speaker 2: can they get ahold of you over at Handy and Handy.
Speaker 6: Yes, Spence, we love coming on here with you and
Speaker 6: talking about these interesting legal issues in the world of sports,
Speaker 6: even numbskulls who are posting things on social media. But
Speaker 6: we'd love to hear from anyone out there and help
Speaker 6: you with your legal issues, especially if you have a
Speaker 6: personal injury case. Give us a callity zero one two
Speaker 6: sixty four six six seven seven or jump on our
Speaker 6: website at Handy Law Utah dot com.
Speaker 2: Preston, thank you, my friend. Have a great weekend. It
Speaker 2: has always go us.
Speaker 6: Thanks past all.
Speaker 2: Right's Preston Handy for the law firm of Handy and Handy.
Speaker 2: What is going through these idiots, numb skull dull brain
Speaker 2: like the one thing you just didn't need to do
Speaker 2: and you would have.
Speaker 1: Been able to get away with it.
Speaker 2: Is not post pictures of yourself online wearing Joe Burrow's
Speaker 2: chain or wearing Patrick mahomes jersey in his watch like
Speaker 2: this is look. I mean, let's start at the beginning.
Speaker 2: Rule number one, don't do that. Rule number one, don't
Speaker 2: steal from other people, and don't burglarize homes. So let's
Speaker 2: just start there, and there's a period at the end
Speaker 2: of that sentence. Yeah, but if you decide to dabble
Speaker 2: and you want to get away with it, maybe don't
Speaker 2: post pictures of yourself online wearing the things that you
Speaker 2: stole from the famous people you stole them from.
Speaker 3: It doesn't seem like quite the uh, the smartest strategy, right.
Speaker 3: I think the picture one of them posted had Joe
Speaker 3: Burrow's jersey and it had like the authentic official NFL
Speaker 3: game warn thing on it. Some of it was jewelry
Speaker 3: that was like custom jewelry. Right, you're not gonna find
Speaker 3: it in a store somewhere. It's made for a specific person.
Speaker 3: You're not gonna be able to hide it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna tell you what to do with your
Speaker 3: free time. But if you do decide to dabble in
Speaker 3: b an e. Yeah, maybe don't take pictures.
Speaker 2: The official stance of the show is to strongly encourage
Speaker 2: people to not do this. Okay, that's the official stance
Speaker 2: of the show. Sorry, But ultimately, as he said, if
Speaker 2: you are going to dabble in this potential new hobby,
Speaker 2: maybe don't do that. It kind of reminds me it's
Speaker 2: a different situation. But remember during the draft process and
Speaker 2: when there was a rumor like, hey, there's a video
Speaker 2: going around of Larry me Tonsul and he has a
Speaker 2: bong attached to his face through a gas mask, and
Speaker 2: Huns was like, it's totally not me because the initial
Speaker 2: video was just some dude in a gas mask hitting
Speaker 2: a bong, and Laraimie Tonsil was like, it's not me.
Speaker 2: And then the second video came out and the dude
Speaker 2: lifted up the mask and it's it's entirely Laramie Tunsel.
Speaker 2: It was, uh, like, don't put a video online of
Speaker 2: you smoking a bong through a gas mask the week
Speaker 2: before you're getting drafted.
Speaker 1: Dude, It's not that hard, wasn't it? His dad? His
Speaker 1: jealous dad is that wasn't that? The story really I
Speaker 1: think so. I honestly don't remember who posted it.
Speaker 2: I just was laughing because he's like, it's not me,
Speaker 2: because the first video was only a dude in a
Speaker 2: gas mask smoking a bong and tonsil and his raps.
Speaker 1: You're like, it's not him, it's not me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do, I do remember that, but I think
Speaker 3: it came out later that. The way it got out
Speaker 3: was someone in his family that was like not stoked
Speaker 3: that he was successful.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just know the next day the video came out
Speaker 2: of him removing the gas mask and it's like, that's you, dude,
Speaker 2: And at that point he's like, yeah, I guess it's me.
Speaker 1: And he still got drafted and he's still awesome at football.
Speaker 2: But you know, all right, snowy and cold Chilli Thursday
Speaker 2: afternoon slash evening, five o'clock hour of the program gets
Speaker 2: wrong right about now.
Speaker 1: Don't forget. We are one hour away from.
Speaker 2: The Four Nations Face Off Championship live in Boston, and
Speaker 2: we're also one hour away from the Craig Smith Coaches Show,
Speaker 2: So keep in mind. We will join the Four Nations
Speaker 2: Face Off Championship in progress here on the station coming
Speaker 2: up at about seven o'clock, but it will get going
Speaker 2: at six o'clock right after we say good night. But
Speaker 2: Craig Smith, Bill Riley the Coaches show for you, so
Speaker 2: stay tuned for that five o'clock hour of the program.
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Speaker 2: day one. More information can be found online at Burt
Speaker 2: Brothers dot com. All Right, Busy Lively show a lot
Speaker 2: of topics on this Thursday afternoon. Gonna bring in Andy
Speaker 2: Larson from the Salt Lake Tribune. The second half of
Speaker 2: the season for the Utah Jazz begins tomorrow night as
Speaker 2: they welcome in Oklahoma City. Second half of the season
Speaker 2: technically got going last night. It was a rescheduled game
Speaker 2: between the Lakers and the Hornets. The Lakers lost now
Speaker 2: one and two with both Lebron and Luca. They've lost
Speaker 2: back to back games, one to the Jazz here in
Speaker 2: Salt Lake and the other the Hornets last night, and
Speaker 2: they've been getting smoked. It looks like Luca is gonna
Speaker 2: sit tonight against Portland, but the Jazz in action. Of course,
Speaker 2: the piece of news that most people have been reacting
Speaker 2: to today is that Victor Wembanyama, the young rising global
Speaker 2: superstar not just a superstar global superstar for the San
Speaker 2: Antonio Spurs, has been shut down for the rest of
Speaker 2: the season over a blood clot which is in his shoulder.
Speaker 2: Now there is precedent here in pro basketball with other
Speaker 2: players suffering from blood clots. The first thought I had
Speaker 2: was Chris Bosh. Essentially his career was over ended by
Speaker 2: a blood clot. And of course we're all hoping anybody
Speaker 2: who loves pro basketball, cares about pro basketball, hoping this
Speaker 2: young man will not have his trajectory derailed as a
Speaker 2: result of this situation. It ended Chris Bosh's career. I'm
Speaker 2: in Thompson last year in Detroit, his rookie year, had
Speaker 2: a blood clot issue. He's good now and he's playing
Speaker 2: well and he looks healthy. Brandon Ingram probably most famously
Speaker 2: because he had a similar situation of Victor women Yama
Speaker 2: also had a blood clot and had to be shut down.
Speaker 2: And he came back and he's been fine. And this
Speaker 2: is a health thing. It's not a basketball thing. According
Speaker 2: to what I've read and heard today, when it comes
Speaker 2: to a blood clot like this, it has to be
Speaker 2: treated immediately, and as an athlete, you are shut down
Speaker 2: right away and not allowed to really start hitting it
Speaker 2: hard with the trick comeback and the physical therapy whatever else.
Speaker 2: It is for an entire six months. So if you're
Speaker 2: the san Antonio Spurs. You're looking at potentially not even
Speaker 2: having Victor women Yama maybe for the start of next year. Now.
Speaker 1: I don't know that.
Speaker 2: I'm not reporting it because the Spurs are very confident
Speaker 2: that this is an isolated thing and that's something that
Speaker 2: could cause long term issues. But we'll have to see
Speaker 2: Victor women Yama out for the rest of the year.
Speaker 2: Has been shut down San Antonio right now twenty three
Speaker 2: and twenty nine, so they're technically still in the mix.
Speaker 2: They're about three and a half four games behind the
Speaker 2: Warriors and the Kings for the final playing spot, but
Speaker 2: they're also now potentially in the mix to simply do
Speaker 2: what they've always done, and that is lose on purpose
Speaker 2: when there's a great player available, and they have a
Speaker 2: tremendous amount of draft flexibility and draft capital moving forward.
Speaker 2: I would not be surprised if the San Antonio Spurs
Speaker 2: and rcbuford elect to do what they can to improve
Speaker 2: their lottery odds and maybe who knows, have more lottery
Speaker 2: luck as they have three different times in their career
Speaker 2: as a pro basketball organization with David Robinson, Tim Duncan
Speaker 2: and now Victor wemen Yama. Can you imagine if the
Speaker 2: Spurs on lottery night lucked into the number one pick
Speaker 2: and just added Cooper Flag next to Victor wemen Yama.
Speaker 2: So that's the big news out of the world of
Speaker 2: pro basketball today. Of course, the four Nations face off tonight,
Speaker 2: US Canada Round two. Really excited for this game, Excited
Speaker 2: to head home and watch it and you guys can
Speaker 2: listen to it here on the Station US.
Speaker 1: With their win. With the US win.
Speaker 2: Over Canada on Saturday of last week on the fifteenth,
Speaker 2: they ended a bunch of notable Canadian hockey win streaks.
Speaker 2: They had won twenty six straight hockey games with Sidney
Speaker 2: Crosby in the lineup, they had won thirteen straight games.
Speaker 2: When it comes to playing against other NHL players, they
Speaker 2: had won seventeen straight best on best games.
Speaker 1: And that's what tonight is.
Speaker 2: So we'll see how it goes down. Both Construck brothers
Speaker 2: are going to play. Both of these teams have excellent goalies.
Speaker 2: Both of these teams have big time motivation as far
Speaker 2: as you know, wanting to get this done now. Saturday's
Speaker 2: game was in Montreal. Montreal, of course, has a one
Speaker 2: hundred year, one hundred plus year hockey history Boston, where
Speaker 2: the matchup will be tonight, is a excellent domestic hockey city,
Speaker 2: and by all accounts, this is one of the toughest
Speaker 2: tickets that we've seen in a long long time. I'm
Speaker 2: not sure that we're going to see the same type
Speaker 2: of intensity and atmosphere in Boston as we did in Montreal.
Speaker 2: Neil Smith joined the program yesterday and gave us a
Speaker 2: good breakdown of what to expect tonight. But the ticket
Speaker 2: situation is this. According to vivid Seats, the average listed
Speaker 2: ticket price for the Four Nations Faceoff Championship game has
Speaker 2: skyrocketed by one hundred and thirty seven percent since the
Speaker 2: game was played last Saturday, US Canada on February the fifteenth.
Speaker 2: The average ticket price for this game tonight on that day.
Speaker 2: Prior to the game was nine hundred and ninety dollars.
Speaker 2: The average ticket price for the game tonight now is
Speaker 2: two thousand, four hundred dollars, so a massive jump. PK
Speaker 2: sue Band was reporting earlier on ESPN that a lot
Speaker 2: of his peers in the NHL, like current NHL players,
Speaker 2: have reached out through reps to try to get a
Speaker 2: ticket to the game, and they've been turned away, So
Speaker 2: this should be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: There's not a ton going on tonight.
Speaker 2: There's a little bit of NBA action, there's some college
Speaker 2: basketball as well, Jazz and action tomorrow. No real local
Speaker 2: teams in college basketball action tonight. I would imagine this
Speaker 2: is going to pull a big number, maybe even close
Speaker 2: to ten million people. It's interesting to hear how the
Speaker 2: coverage has been handled by media members that don't talk
Speaker 2: about hockey a ton But I thought PK sue Band
Speaker 2: today gave a really interesting diatribe and certainly PK was
Speaker 2: taking advantage of his platform to probably pull off a
Speaker 2: little bit of perform Orman's art to motivate people to
Speaker 2: continue to watch hockey. I mean, this has been a
Speaker 2: real boom for this sport, and it's kind of fun
Speaker 2: that we're actually a hockey town with the Utah Hockey
Speaker 2: Club here and so PK suban, it's online, it's everywhere.
Speaker 2: Really did an interesting job breaking down the dichotomy between
Speaker 2: NBA players and NHL players and utilize this opportunity to
Speaker 2: basically speak to consumers and say, as I'm paraphrasing here,
Speaker 2: if you want to watch a sport, if you want
Speaker 2: to watch a game, If you want to watch a
Speaker 2: situation where a league actually employees players that care to
Speaker 2: show up on time for work and play hard, watch
Speaker 2: NHL Hockey. Because these guys do, they show up, They
Speaker 2: play through injury, injuries, and we've heard Brendan Hagu, We've
Speaker 2: heard a lot of these players talk about playing for
Speaker 2: your flag and not playing for the camera, and caring
Speaker 2: about both club and country.
Speaker 1: It's a little soccer that way.
Speaker 2: But these guys tonight showing up and playing with passion,
Speaker 2: playing hard and playing for as cliche as it sounds,
Speaker 2: what's on the front of the chest, not the name
Speaker 2: on the back of the sweater, right, playing for your country,
Speaker 2: playing for the flat, playing for pride, and not wanting
Speaker 2: to lose to those dudes. I do not anticipate that
Speaker 2: we will see a bunch of fights right out of
Speaker 2: the gates. I don't think that's going to be the case.
Speaker 2: And typically in pro hockey, like a Stanley Cup final
Speaker 2: or a Stanley Cup playoff Game seven or what have you,
Speaker 2: you don't see a lot of fights when there's a
Speaker 2: lot on the line. Simply put, you can't have your
Speaker 2: best players sitting in the penalty box and the Kachuck
Speaker 2: brothers are too good to be sitting outside of the action.
Speaker 1: They need to be involved.
Speaker 2: And that's why most hockey teams have enforcers that aren't.
Speaker 1: Very good at hockey.
Speaker 2: Quite frankly, if I could be a little harsh, like
Speaker 2: Spicy Tuna, our guy Lim O'Brien was, he a fourth
Speaker 2: string forward and he's brought on basically to throw hands
Speaker 2: because you don't want Dylan Gunther or Clayton Keller sitting
Speaker 2: in the penalty box. But you're okay if our guys,
Speaker 2: Spicy Tune is chilling over there for a few minutes.
Speaker 2: So Conter Hellibuck is the goalie or the Team USA,
Speaker 2: and right now he might be the best goalie in
Speaker 2: the world. And there's a lot of information out there
Speaker 2: that indicates maybe if there is a fight, like, is
Speaker 2: Connor going to challenge Jordan Bidnington, the polarizing figure who
Speaker 2: is the goalie for the World Canada team as they
Speaker 2: call them now. Jordan has interesting experience in Boston. In
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, he was the goalie for the Saint Louis
Speaker 2: Blues and they went up to Boston and played a
Speaker 2: game seven and won, and Jordan was amazing and he
Speaker 2: has experience with this club, or excuse me, he has
Speaker 2: experience with this city, has experience playing hockey in Boston
Speaker 2: in front of crazy fans. And we have the pregame
Speaker 2: coverage pulled up on the television in the studio and
Speaker 2: they are showing the fans outside of the stadium in Boston.
Speaker 2: It looks like it is going to be wild, looks
Speaker 2: like it's going to be intense. And you will watch
Speaker 2: a game tonight with players who seem to care as
Speaker 2: opposed to what we've seen from NBA basketball, not just
Speaker 2: in the All Star weekend situation, but throughout the course
Speaker 2: of most of the regular season. And it's not entirely
Speaker 2: fair to put all this on the players, but it
Speaker 2: was interesting the way PK suband decided to handle his
Speaker 2: opportunity today.
Speaker 1: It's pretty rare.
Speaker 2: Then on you know the ESPN shows like Get Up, First,
Speaker 2: Take whatever it is that they delve into hockey storylines
Speaker 2: unless there's absolutely nothing else going on. It was like
Speaker 2: in the A block for Sports Center, like the B
Speaker 2: block for some of the big time ESPN you know,
Speaker 2: you know products the shows they run throughout the course
Speaker 2: of the morning to get you ready for the world
Speaker 2: in sports and talk about things topically, and everybody was
Speaker 2: talking about the four nations faceoff. So the championship game
Speaker 2: will be tonight again. It starts at six o'clock and
Speaker 2: we will join it in progress at seven o'clock after
Speaker 2: the Craig Smith Coaches Show.
Speaker 1: Real quick.
Speaker 2: I found this interesting and we brought it up a
Speaker 2: little bit earlier because, of course, the college football landscape
Speaker 2: in this market is something where people are always in
Speaker 2: a tested in college football storylines. Well, Texas and USC
Speaker 2: have joined Nebraska in canceling their spring games. So Steve Sarkisian,
Speaker 2: who just signed a new deal by the way, indicated
Speaker 2: that this is a time that he is now going
Speaker 2: to utilize to make sure his players stay healthy. I
Speaker 2: just have to wonder Texas, USC, Nebraska the spring games.
Speaker 2: I have to wonder whether or not this is going
Speaker 2: to turn into a thing, because if we call it
Speaker 2: how it is, the spring game now at the University
Speaker 2: of Utah is simply an exhibition and a lot of
Speaker 2: the better players don't play it.
Speaker 1: Look, I get it.
Speaker 2: I'm not pushing back on it, and certainly if your coach, wait,
Speaker 2: if you're the University of Utah, the past couple of
Speaker 2: years have led to a lot of PTSD when it
Speaker 2: comes to the health of your roster. So if you
Speaker 2: want to take a break from the spring game as
Speaker 2: a result of wanting your players to be right for
Speaker 2: the season, I'm not sure anybody would have a big
Speaker 2: issue with it. Obviously, it's a bummer if it goes
Speaker 2: away because it's just simply fun to topically have something
Speaker 2: to discuss in the spring as we're all looking at
Speaker 2: to the fall when college football gets real. But Florida
Speaker 2: State also canceled its spring game this year. Now, that
Speaker 2: was because of renovations to Dope Campbell, but Mike Norbell
Speaker 2: is indicated he doesn't think it's coming back at all.
Speaker 2: So Texas, USC, Nebraska, Florida State all canceling their spring
Speaker 2: games in the world.
Speaker 1: Of college football.
Speaker 2: The final segment of the show for this Thursday, you'll
Speaker 2: hear from Bill Riley Craig Smith talk a little Utah
Speaker 2: men's basketball. It's been a positive stretch for the Utes.
Speaker 2: They've played well, a couple of wins over the Kansas teams.
Speaker 2: Still blows my mind that Kansas, the Kansas Jayhawks rolled
Speaker 2: into the state of Utah and took two wells and
Speaker 2: never let didn't lead the Utes for a minute, didn't
Speaker 2: lead the Utes for a second, nor did they lead
Speaker 2: the Cougars for any portion of that game. The Utes
Speaker 2: are back on the road, coming up on the twenty
Speaker 2: third at UCF and then a big one at Michale
Speaker 2: at Arizona, couple of home games Arizona State and West Virginia,
Speaker 2: and then they'll finish it up down in Provo BYUS
Speaker 2: can have revenge on the mind after the UT's got
Speaker 2: them up here. If the Utes can finish three and
Speaker 2: two in their final five games, that is a ten
Speaker 2: win conference season. And maybe the Big Twelve isn't what
Speaker 2: we thought it would be. I mean, clearly, the SEC
Speaker 2: is the best best conference in college basketball, and then
Speaker 2: Big Ten right behind it, ACC is down the Big
Speaker 2: Twelve is probably the third best conference in college basketball.
Speaker 1: This year.
Speaker 2: They have an elite national championship contender in the Houston
Speaker 2: Cougars and then maybe a secondary threat in Arizona, Iowa State,
Speaker 2: Texas Tech, two solid teams. Ken Pom likes them at
Speaker 2: Ken Pom and Studio so UT's back in action. We'll
Speaker 2: hear what Craig Smith has to say about his team
Speaker 2: coming up with the Craig Smith Coaches Show, and then
Speaker 2: just a reminder following that we will join the Four
Speaker 2: Nations face Off final in progress between Canada and the
Speaker 2: United States. The Utah jazzer off to either back in
Speaker 2: action tomorrow as they'll continue the second half of the season.
Speaker 2: Turner Sports has your double dip if you're looking for
Speaker 2: NBA basketball tonight. First game is going on right now
Speaker 2: between the Celtics and the seventy six ers, and then
Speaker 2: your late night game ish around seven thirty eight o'clock
Speaker 2: is the Sun's and the Spurs. But speaking of the Spurs,
Speaker 2: Victor Webman Yama shut down for the season a blood
Speaker 2: clot in his shoulder was found after he returned from
Speaker 2: All Star weekend in San Francisco. Now we have president here.
Speaker 2: My first thought was Chris Bosh. Obviously, you guys remember
Speaker 2: blood clots shut down Chris Bosh and his career, brandon
Speaker 2: Ingram Thompson, other players have dealt with this, and if
Speaker 2: you can get at it early, it's pretty treatable and
Speaker 2: hopefully Victor Webbin Yama gets back on track pretty quickly.
Speaker 2: Here I'm told, based off of what I've read, I
Speaker 2: should say, blood clot means you shut it down right
Speaker 2: away six months you're basically on the shelf before you
Speaker 2: can really start getting back at it. So what does
Speaker 2: that mean for the rest of the season.
Speaker 1: I don't know. We'll have to see.
Speaker 2: I mean, san Antonio not that far out of the
Speaker 2: lottery when it comes to the top end of the lottery,
Speaker 2: because so could they get another bit of lottery luck
Speaker 2: and at a good piece next to Victor Weman Yama?
Speaker 2: All right, porter, before we say goodnight, am I reading
Speaker 2: that Zach Martin is retiring from the NFL?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 4: Wow?
Speaker 1: You know what.
Speaker 2: I don't blame them, no, like you might as well.
Speaker 2: But hell of a player. I mean one of the
Speaker 2: best offensive linemen of all time.
Speaker 3: I mean you spend a decade in the league. I
Speaker 3: know that's not like seen as a super long career
Speaker 3: based on some of the things that we see athletes
Speaker 3: doing around the world. But playing nine years as one
Speaker 3: of the top offensive linemen in in the league, and
Speaker 3: playing nine years where you don't miss a lot of snaps,
Speaker 3: that's a full career and then some. Although again, a
Speaker 3: lot of people sometimes now nowadays expect things like Lebron
Speaker 3: and the type of the type of like long long
Speaker 3: careers that we see from some guys are total outliers.
Speaker 3: The average NFL career is like two and a half years.
Speaker 2: I think, well, in offensive linemen don't play longer than
Speaker 2: a decade more often than not. And Zach Martin nine
Speaker 2: time Pro Bowl selection in eleven years.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: The only Bob Lilly, Larry Allen, and Jason Witten have
Speaker 2: more Pro Bowl selections in the history of the Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 1: So pretty impressive there, All.
Speaker 2: Right, Porter, before we get out of here, it is
Speaker 2: time now for the Craig Smith Coaches Show, then the
Speaker 2: Four Nations Championship match up between Canada and the US.
Speaker 2: What comes our way on a Friday edition of the
Speaker 2: radio show.
Speaker 3: On a Friday edition of The Drive, we'll cover all
Speaker 3: of our bases, starting it off with a little RSL,
Speaker 3: some preseason stuff, some Conker Calf chat with Kurt Schmid
Speaker 3: of Real Salt Lake. Howard Beck stops by of the
Speaker 3: Ringer for the NBA Daily Assist. We'll talk some running
Speaker 3: utes with Sean Mooney, some PGA tour with Paul Pugmeyer,
Speaker 3: and then working on a hopefully a Utah Hockey club
Speaker 3: player or front office member. Is is the plan to
Speaker 3: recap some hockey. If I can't get one of those guys,
Speaker 3: maybe we'll just we'll just start reaching out to some
Speaker 3: NHL media type folks. But someone to talk four nations
Speaker 3: face off final.
Speaker 1: I've got US four Canada three? Whoa are I scoring?
Speaker 1: What do you got?
Speaker 3: I've got uh No, I haven't even thought about it.
Speaker 2: We'll just throw something nobody knows. Just throw something out there.
Speaker 1: I'm going three to one USA.
Speaker 2: See you just did copious amounts of research. Three one US.
Speaker 2: I'll take four to three US. Let's do it, all right,
Speaker 2: Craig Smith coach the show coming up next special thank
Speaker 2: you today, Andy Larson, Ken Pomeroy and aminol Hassen. For
Speaker 2: any of the sound that you potentially may miss from
Speaker 2: the show today, you can go to the website. It's
Speaker 2: ESPN seven hundred sports dot com, download our mobile app
Speaker 2: and take us on the go. That ESPN seven hundred
Speaker 2: app is available in the App Store and the Google
Speaker 2: play Store for free. And then for what we do
Speaker 2: specifically every afternoon for four hours, our podcast page called
Speaker 2: The Drive with Spence. Check its and it's available wherever
Speaker 2: you get your shows. So please subscribe, rate and review
Speaker 2: our show. If you say nice things in the comments
Speaker 2: and give us all the stars, it really helps. If
Speaker 2: you like what we do, please do that tonight for Porter.
Speaker 2: I'm spen saying, and I enjoy your Thursday after excuse
Speaker 2: me your Thursday evening. Craig Smith's coach the show come
Speaker 2: up on the other side with SoC to you tomorrow
Speaker 2: right here. Aud ESPN seven hundred ninety two and FFM
Speaker 2: proud to be part of Utah ZESPN Radio Network