WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:03.080 Literally just now actually just before this as well, just 2 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:06.200 chatting with another member of the SEC's crypto toss fores 3 00:00:06.200 --> 00:00:08.279 and how much we can share about that right now. 4 00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:11.599 But what they were literally saying is they want to 5 00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:14.119 help to see how they can actually create the environment 6 00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:16.879 for another DeFi summer. So I think we're at this 7 00:00:17.039 --> 00:00:19.719 amazing point where we're like, wow, this is incredible. Like 8 00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:21.920 the SEC that we saw even just a year ago 9 00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:23.760 was totally different. It was like, how can create a 10 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:26.440 new DeFi crash? Whereas now it's like, how do we 11 00:00:26.440 --> 00:00:27.239 create summer again. 12 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:34.560 This episode is brought to you by v Chain. V 13 00:00:34.679 --> 00:00:37.600 chain is one of the top layer one enterprise blockchain's 14 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:41.159 indie crypto asset class and they are getting adoption by 15 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:43.920 many big brands and companies around the world who are 16 00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:47.960 building Web three and decentralized application technologies. I've been a 17 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:50.719 vet token holder for many years. In fact, I started 18 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:54.079 investing in v chain back in twenty eighteen, and some 19 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:56.679 of the key features of the v chain blockchain includes 20 00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:00.640 its secure, affordable, scalable, fast, and sustainable. Some of the 21 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:06.200 companies and brands working with v chain include Jivon, Chi, Walmart, China, BMW, 22 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:10.319 Boston Consulting Group, and many more. Most recently, they partnered 23 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:13.480 with Dana White in the UFC, and Dana White even 24 00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:17.000 said recently that he purchased over a million dollars of 25 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:20.480 the vet token, and v chain also recently launched staking 26 00:01:20.599 --> 00:01:23.959 where you can stake the vet token and earn great rewards. 27 00:01:24.159 --> 00:01:26.000 So if you'd like to learn more about v chain, 28 00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:29.719 go to vchain dot org. Link will be in the description. Hey, everybody, 29 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:32.760 welcome into the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host Tony 30 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:35.159 Edward and we are recording at Station three in New 31 00:01:35.239 --> 00:01:39.319 York's Financial District, and my guests are Dom and Phil Quock, 32 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:43.200 who are the co founders of easya. Dom, Phil, great 33 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:43.840 to see you both. 34 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:45.000 It's great to be ahead, thanks to. 35 00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:48.519 Our last interview was virtual. It was the beginning of 36 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:51.319 this year. A lot has changed, so I'm really excited 37 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:53.280 to catch up with you guys, learn about what's new 38 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:55.599 with easya, and of course get your thoughts on this 39 00:01:55.719 --> 00:01:58.840 crazy market. But what are you guys in town for? 40 00:01:59.040 --> 00:01:59.920 What are you in New York for? 41 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:01.840 We've got a couple of meetings we just had. 42 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:04.599 We were just well, we were saying apologies for being 43 00:02:04.680 --> 00:02:06.200 late because we were just over at Trump Tower on 44 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:09.039 the traffic getting down here was insane. We have a 45 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:12.280 lot of meetings out here, so we have seen a 46 00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:15.680 lot of projects who are now coming and maturing and 47 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:18.879 getting ready for basically prime time. And we're also building 48 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:21.000 a lot out with easy A Labs, which we recently 49 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:23.639 started up. So we're here on the ground, boots on 50 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:24.479 the ground in New York. 51 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:27.919 So are you guys helping crypto startups or different projects, 52 00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:30.479 helping them get started and things like that. 53 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:32.360 Yeah, I mean you can think of easy a really 54 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:35.520 as being like, in some ways an incubator, because we 55 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:38.159 have three things basically that we do. Number One, it's 56 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:40.439 the easy a app, which is kind of like Jeweling Go, 57 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:42.680 but for blockchain, we're like the onboarding layer. 58 00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:43.039 Sure. 59 00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:44.879 Then we host a lot of hackathons, So this weekend 60 00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:46.599 we're going to be up at Harvard hosting a big 61 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:49.240 hackathon there. And then what we also do is we 62 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:51.800 then help to get those startups access to a funding 63 00:02:52.039 --> 00:02:54.439 So over the past couple of years, we've given startups 64 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:57.240 millions of dollars to help them build their projects out. 65 00:02:57.639 --> 00:02:59.960 And actually we were saying that we've been here before 66 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:03.520 with one of our other startups called Axel. They raised 67 00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:06.080 from a sixteen Z crypto so went through their startups school, 68 00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:10.599 raised a pretty really really neat pre seed round as well. Recently, 69 00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:13.800 so they've just launched gone on mein net. Absolutely crushing it. 70 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:17.599 That's amazing, and it's awesome that you're helping these startups 71 00:03:17.639 --> 00:03:22.520 and new entrepreneurs and innovators and your platform is is 72 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:24.960 it just like helping folks in the US or is 73 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:26.840 it also like international. 74 00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:29.560 All over the world. Yeah, so obviously the US is 75 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:32.840 probably our biggest market right now, the most companies and 76 00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:35.360 users of the Easier app, you know, based in the US, 77 00:03:35.719 --> 00:03:39.840 but then also rapidly growing communities in Asia, Europe and 78 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:42.120 you know all over the world really, so, you know, 79 00:03:42.199 --> 00:03:45.199 Easier is super easy tool for anyone to use and 80 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:48.319 learn about the world's best crypto projects on given it's 81 00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:50.199 a mobile app, so anyone can download it. 82 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:52.319 It's free, it's super easy. 83 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:54.520 Sort of like dual lingo but for blockchain as many 84 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:57.000 people call it. And yeah, the community has just been 85 00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:58.879 growing all over the world, you know, over a million 86 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:04.400 users now and acting rapidly towards you know, millions more. So, Yeah, definitely, 87 00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:07.439 definitely exciting times. And we spend a lot of time 88 00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:10.280 in the US, of course, because that's where you know, 89 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:13.639 everything really sort of originated, so to speak. But yeah, 90 00:04:13.719 --> 00:04:15.639 definitely spending more and more time in Asia and Europe 91 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:16.000 as well. 92 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:18.360 But is is it like more easier now in the 93 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:21.480 US with the favorable environment and legislation getting past and 94 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:21.959 things like that. 95 00:04:22.439 --> 00:04:23.199 Yeah, definitely. 96 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:26.040 I mean people are really you know taking crypto seriously now, 97 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:29.040 you know, the FED, the SEC, it's sort of really 98 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:32.079 you know, core part of their agenda, and so a 99 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:35.000 lot of people that we see, especially at the younger stages, 100 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:37.519 you know, university students, people who are just getting into 101 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:40.920 job markets. They are all paying attention to what's going 102 00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:42.839 on in the space with stable coins, you know, with 103 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:46.040 other areas of crypto as well. And of course, you know, 104 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:50.120 the whole Trump organization is really involved in the space too, 105 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:52.199 and that's just put a massive spotlight on the space. 106 00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:55.000 So yeah, definitely becoming a proper you know, career path 107 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:57.480 for many young people. And obviously, you know, Phil and 108 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:00.199 I do our best to also be role model in 109 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:02.439 the space and show people what's possible. In a very 110 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:03.319 short amount of time. 111 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:06.519 We're literally just now actually just before this as well, 112 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:09.879 just chatting with another member of the SEC's cryptotask fores, 113 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:11.519 And I'm not sure how much we can share about 114 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:14.839 that right now, but what they were literally saying is 115 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:17.000 they want to help to see how they can actually 116 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:20.240 create the environment for another DeFi summer. So I think 117 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:22.680 we're at this amazing point where we're like, wow, this 118 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:25.079 is incredible. Like the SEC that we saw even just 119 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:26.959 a year ago was totally different. It was like how 120 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:29.800 can create a new DeFi crash? Whereas now it's like, 121 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:30.920 how do we create summer again? 122 00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:32.959 Right? Yeah, they were trying to like kill it in 123 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:36.959 the industry. Right. It was dystopian. It was doomsday. Now 124 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:40.319 it's like bright sunny days and everybody can focus on 125 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:44.199 building and innovating a complete one eighty. You know, you 126 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:48.279 mentioned something about helping younger folks to find your careers 127 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:51.000 and their path in this industry, and you mentioned the 128 00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:54.439 Harvard hackathon. It just reminds me of Web two, where 129 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:56.759 you know, you had Mark Zuckerberg and the folks coming 130 00:05:56.759 --> 00:06:01.160 out with Facebook and many others tell us about this hackathon, 131 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:03.920 and I saw algorithm is going to be participating as well. 132 00:06:04.839 --> 00:06:07.600 Yeah, yeah, exactly so that's this weekend we're going to 133 00:06:07.639 --> 00:06:10.439 be hosting a big hackthon at Harvard, inviting the whole 134 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:13.560 Easier community from all over the US and globally. Typically 135 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:14.959 a lot of people fly in as well for these 136 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:18.040 hackthons because they're a great place for people to meet 137 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:19.759 other people who want to build in crypto. They're a 138 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:22.240 great place for people to actually pitch their projects they're 139 00:06:22.279 --> 00:06:24.879 working on. So we have typically you know, two days 140 00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:27.199 of building and then a demo day right at the end, 141 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:29.680 and that typically takes place at the end of day 142 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:33.279 two and essentially people will pitch their projects, get the 143 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:36.560 chance to win funding and then also prize money, and 144 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:39.040 that's just a great opportunity for people to sort of 145 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:41.959 get their start in the space. And so many projects 146 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:44.879 that have come through Easya, come through those hackathons presented 147 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:46.920 at demo days, have gone on to build amazing things. 148 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:50.120 You know, We've had unicorns come out of Easier hackthons, 149 00:06:50.279 --> 00:06:53.560 AI companies that are completely revolutionizing the field, like Cognition 150 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:57.600 AI and another team that film mentioned earlier, AXL, which 151 00:06:57.639 --> 00:06:59.439 are you know, working out of this space as well, 152 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:04.199 so building really cool yield products now for different cryptos 153 00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:08.000 so yeah, really long lasting impact. Actually if these events 154 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:10.240 that we host and obviously through the work that we 155 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:12.920 do at easier and the goals really to you know, 156 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:16.319 make sure those projects actually build long lasting value for 157 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:19.600 the underlying blockchains we work with, you know, like algorithm, 158 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:22.319 like the xopy ledger, like Stellar and all of the 159 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:24.040 other amazing blockchains. 160 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:26.720 So what are some of like prizes or amount of 161 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:28.759 money folks can win in these actons. 162 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:33.120 That's a great question that it ranges. Okay, so on 163 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:36.199 average it's about fifty to one hundred thousand dollars sure, 164 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:37.680 and that's totally equity free. 165 00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:39.199 So it's pretty incredible. 166 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:41.959 Like I remember when I did my undergrad at Cambridge 167 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:46.000 in the UK and the annual prize, which like everybody 168 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:48.959 wants to go for, was two thousand pounds. I'm not 169 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:51.560 that of like this wasn't you know before I don't 170 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:53.360 know we had all the inflation that we have. OUs 171 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:55.399 it was before like the last round of inflation, But 172 00:07:55.439 --> 00:07:57.519 it wasn't when one pound or one dollar was like, 173 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:00.879 you know, worth a million. Ye may be like adjusted 174 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:04.800 for inflation, they'll be like, you know, two thousand, five 175 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:07.040 hundred or three thousand dollars or so, but yeah, it's 176 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:07.680 a lot of money. 177 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:08.160 And yeah. 178 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:11.839 Actually we also host a big multichain hacked On twice 179 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:15.480 a year now together with Consensus, So that is the 180 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:19.560 conference Consensus with coin Desk, and at our last one 181 00:08:19.639 --> 00:08:22.800 we had over a million dollars in prize money and 182 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:23.800 forll on funding. 183 00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:27.439 That's amazing. So are the folks that you're working with, 184 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:29.959 like Consensus, are they seeding some of these funds? 185 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:32.759 Great question. It's usually with the partners actually the blockchains. 186 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:33.919 Oh yeah, yeah. 187 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:37.120 So what we do is we have like the biggest 188 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:40.000 pool of talent and then they want to tap into that. 189 00:08:40.120 --> 00:08:42.240 So because we had so many cool projects come out 190 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:45.039 of previous hacktons, come out of the community where you know, 191 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:46.480 in many ways you could think of us as like 192 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:49.639 this onboarding layer into web three, the smartest people pass 193 00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:52.919 through easyer fust and then that's how we bring them in. 194 00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:56.279 And all the top blockchains like Ripple, like Stella, they 195 00:08:56.360 --> 00:08:58.679 want to tap into this and that's how they can 196 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:01.039 get the next big big appations building on them. 197 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:03.120 I love it and it's a way for them, to 198 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:05.799 your point, get more adoption of their chain. Yeah, and 199 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:10.039 it's non equity raditional like equity taken or anything like exactly. 200 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:12.639 I mean later on there's like all sorts of vcas 201 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:15.879 in the networks, sure, but yeah, at the beginning, it's 202 00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:18.639 really very much in keeping with the ethos of Web three, 203 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:21.720 which is, let's build this openly. We want projects to 204 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:23.639 build open source as well, so that other people can 205 00:09:23.799 --> 00:09:27.399 build on them later on. But it's absolutely fantastic. I mean, 206 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:29.720 I wish something like this has existed when we were 207 00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:31.879 first getting started. I remember when I first got into 208 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:33.639 crypto in twenty thirteen, and it was literally me and 209 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:36.840 my parents' basement, plugging in my computers and like being 210 00:09:36.840 --> 00:09:39.559 on different online forums and YouTube and a lot of 211 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:42.120 people were actually even getting banned from YouTube for talking 212 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:44.720 about crypto. Is like just completely different times. 213 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:48.399 Yeah, yeah, So what is it like looking back? And 214 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:51.279 now we have trad five, We have banks, stock exchanges, 215 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:54.080 the biggest companies in the world getting involved with crypto 216 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:56.240 in one way or the other, whether they're launching et apps, 217 00:09:56.440 --> 00:09:59.639 tokenizing their own stable coin. What is that? You know? 218 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:00.720 What is I mean for you guys? 219 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:03.039 I mean I can kick it off with like where 220 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:06.440 I started off, and you know, Dom can chime in there. 221 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:09.480 I think twenty thirteen was such a different time. I 222 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:14.080 think we all know that early twenty tens everybody was 223 00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:18.440 very in some ways, like it was cryptoanarchy, right. We 224 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:24.440 had this idea that we're gonna completely take over track 225 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:31.519 by yeah, and we just absolutely were completely counter governments 226 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:35.519 being involved. This was the antithesis of all of that. 227 00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:39.480 So even if you look at the original Bitcoin white paper, 228 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:43.639 it was written and Bitcoin was developed against the backdrop 229 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:47.200 of the financial crisis, right, the Great Financial Crisis, all 230 00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:49.480 these big banks too big to fail to the little 231 00:10:49.480 --> 00:10:53.799 guy who bolts them up, and Bitcoin was created as 232 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:57.519 a reaction to that. And then you have projects like 233 00:10:57.559 --> 00:11:00.000 the XLP ledger which come out as a better alternative 234 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:02.360 bitcoin even but that's what all this experimentation is about. 235 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:04.440 And it's almost weird. 236 00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:06.480 I mean this meme that is going around right now, 237 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:08.919 which is like you know, people who are in crypto 238 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:12.120 in like early twenty tens versus people today, which is like, oh, 239 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:14.080 we want black Rock and all these different guys to 240 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:16.480 come in, and it's like what happened to us all. 241 00:11:16.279 --> 00:11:18.840 What happened to down with the banks exactly. 242 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:20.440 Right, It's like now we want the banks to come in, Yeah, 243 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:23.879 and it's interesting because I think there's different pockets that 244 00:11:23.919 --> 00:11:25.679 are still there. There's like you've got some of the 245 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:27.879 OG bitcoiners and some of like the really og like 246 00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:31.840 early early crypto guys who are still feeling like, you know, 247 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:35.360 we don't want this, like i'd say, in some ways 248 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:40.759 they're the Bitcoin purists. Then you've also got partners that 249 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:43.759 we have like Ripple, who from the very beginning, guys 250 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:47.399 like Chris Larson like actually the way that we get adoption, 251 00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:52.240 like there's never really been a technical change which hasn't 252 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:56.919 really built on what's happened before and actually sort of 253 00:11:57.799 --> 00:12:02.600 built its own future by welcoming them in, right, you know, 254 00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:06.600 that's like how you need to come into this future. 255 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:09.080 And so I think that's the approach that Ripple took. 256 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:12.919 Ethereum as well. Interesting they sort of have threaded the 257 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:13.679 needle a little bit. 258 00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:16.679 They've had small contracts, so DeFi but also now they're 259 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:19.759 welcoming a lot of institutional financing. So I think what 260 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:24.519 we're seeing right now is crypto has actually absorbed all 261 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:27.600 of these different places. I think that there's different things 262 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:31.399 for different people. I'm still fascinated, but I haven't necessarily 263 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:33.399 made my mind up as to which one is the 264 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:35.879 right or wrong answer. I'm still pretty open minded about it. 265 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:38.159 But yeah, it's been fascinating to see how it is 266 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:40.039 really really different now to how it was. 267 00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:43.200 But the ethos of it is supposed to be decentralized, 268 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:46.279 So you can't stop an institution from buying bigcoin or 269 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:49.000 launching a product, like how would you do that? If 270 00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:51.759 you believe in the decentralized nature, anyone can access it. 271 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:55.360 Somebody in a country in Africa can buy a fraction, 272 00:12:56.440 --> 00:12:58.200 maybe just ten bucks a bit one, but so can 273 00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:01.480 the billionaire. How do you It's that's the nature of 274 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:02.399 the beasts, so to speak. 275 00:13:02.679 --> 00:13:05.639 Yeah, exactly, I don't think so. I think it might 276 00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:08.360 even some in some ways be counter to the idea 277 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:10.399 of crypto that you can shot out these guys and 278 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:13.879 not the others. The whole idea is it's censorship resistant, right, 279 00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:17.279 I just yeah, I just think it's fascinating that the 280 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:20.919 philosophy has definitely changed. I think the reason that a 281 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:23.480 lot of people coming, I mean, that's also not ignore 282 00:13:23.480 --> 00:13:25.159 the fact that most people come into crypto because they 283 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:27.639 want to speculate, and so in some ways it's like, 284 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:29.559 let's get the banks in because that means there's more 285 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:32.559 money in the space, and that's a valid argument too. 286 00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:35.039 So yeah, I think jury is still out on which 287 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:38.559 one's right. I think there's some areas where there's been 288 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:42.080 a lot that's happened in crypto, where like just I 289 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:44.840 think there's some areas where the value that it adds 290 00:13:45.159 --> 00:13:49.480 is probably I'm probably skeptical about you know, even mean 291 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:51.559 cooins I think add value in some respect because at 292 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:53.840 least they generate more attention. Sure, you know, you have 293 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:56.039 like the Trump coin and sort of like a legitimizing 294 00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:58.720 factor because like wow, if the Trump if Trump and 295 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:01.159 the President actually had its own coin, then it's like 296 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:03.679 a lot of eyeballs on it. So even that I 297 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:06.320 do see merit in even though like I'm not necessarily 298 00:14:06.320 --> 00:14:08.919 the biggest investment in mean coins, I just think that 299 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:12.759 it's interesting, it brings more eyeballs. So like I'm I'm 300 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:14.799 not skeptical on that much. But I think there's some 301 00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:17.279 bits which are like, you know, there's just a lot 302 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:19.000 of hot airs that's been encrypto. 303 00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:23.720 Yeah, what do you think about you know, the change 304 00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:24.320 and the growth? 305 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:26.440 Yeah, I mean I think, you know, the space has 306 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:28.559 changed so much in the last couple of years, and 307 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:31.240 even more so in the last year or two. You know, 308 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:33.720 I think we went from seeing like pil mentioned SEC 309 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:36.279 that was very much anti crypto to one that's very 310 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:39.519 much embracing it. They want to actually hear what's happening 311 00:14:39.559 --> 00:14:42.759 at the ground level. We just yeah, we just spoke 312 00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:44.919 with the Task Force. Actually, we had a meeting with 313 00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:48.399 them earlier today, and they were really telling us, you know, 314 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:50.960 about how keen they are to hear from people who 315 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:53.799 are actually building on the ground about you know, how 316 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:58.279 they can actually make legislation that is favorable and also 317 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:01.200 you know, really welcoming for these new companies who are launching. 318 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:03.519 And obviously we deal with so many of those companies 319 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:05.919 all the way from early stage startups to our you know, 320 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:08.320 big partners like Rapol and Stella and all of those, 321 00:15:08.919 --> 00:15:11.399 and we have a very good oversight of what's going 322 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:13.600 on both on that side. But then also with our backgrounds. 323 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:15.799 You know, Phil used to work in Lord Sullivan and Cromwell. 324 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:19.120 I used to work at Blackstone, biggest you know p 325 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:21.399 fund in the world, and I think, you know, back 326 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:24.600 in those days when I worked there in New York, 327 00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:27.440 they were very anti crypto, but now you know, they've 328 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:30.600 started actually, you know, looking at the space in more detail. 329 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:34.919 My colleagues, who you know previously never really understood anything 330 00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:37.639 about crypto, they want to learn more about it. They're 331 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:39.200 asking me all the time every time they see a 332 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:41.279 podcast or something. You know, they're like, you know, how 333 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:43.759 do we learn more? How do we get involved? And 334 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:45.279 so I think we're going to see a big shift 335 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:48.720 towards you know, institutional adoption. Obviously that we're already starting 336 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:50.639 to see, you know, pockets off you know, ETFs and 337 00:15:51.159 --> 00:15:52.720 tokenization of funds, et cetera. 338 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:55.480 Do you think part of it is in addition to 339 00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:58.279 making money, because that's a big incentive for everybody, whether 340 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:01.039 you're institution or retail. I came in because I wanted 341 00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:03.240 to make money off of bitcoin, but then I stayed 342 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:05.320 for the technology. I was like, Okay, I see this 343 00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:07.600 as the next layer on top of the Internet, and 344 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:09.919 it's going to change the way we transact and do business. 345 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:12.600 You think a lot of them are starting to recognize 346 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:15.919 that this is not just speculation. Every market, every asset 347 00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:19.279 has a speculation layer, real estate, precious metals, whatever, the 348 00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:21.759 stock market. But wait, we need to build on this 349 00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:24.039 because this is going to disrupt our business. 350 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:27.759 Yeah, definitely. I mean I think, you know, with JP 351 00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:30.600 Morgan was a great example, Jamie Diamond, their CEO was 352 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:33.480 very much anti bitcoin, and now there's larning to see actually, 353 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:36.200 you know, we kind of need to embrace bitcoin. We 354 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:38.159 need to make sure that we can provide services to 355 00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:41.000 our clients and both on the institutional but also private 356 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:43.799 client side, that we can actually you know, show them 357 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:45.919 these are the different spite of products we have, and 358 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:48.840 we need to obviously cater to their desires to make 359 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:51.120 money in the space and to actually invest and do 360 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:55.039 things in crypto. So I think, yeah, the you know, 361 00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:57.320 it's been a seismic shift obviously in the space, and 362 00:16:57.320 --> 00:16:59.639 it's only going to continue. You know, once a big 363 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:02.240 bank like JP Morgan starts making it clear that they 364 00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:05.279 want to actually embrace the space, everyone else obviously will 365 00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:07.319 have to follow. And we have many friends who you 366 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:09.079 know obviously work on wall streets, and you know a 367 00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:11.599 lot of these banks are now setting up crypto trading 368 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:15.559 desks dedicated to crypto you know, crypto research as well, 369 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:17.799 and really you know, just like devoting a ton of 370 00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:19.839 resources to the space because they know this is how 371 00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:21.799 the world's going to be operating in the future. 372 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:25.599 I mean JP Morning and Jamie Diamond Crypto's final is boss. Right. 373 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:29.759 He was the guy at the head of the hill, right, ye, saying, hey, 374 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:31.480 this is all a skim, don't talk to me about it. 375 00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:33.000 I remember he was saying he was a good would 376 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:36.000 fire anybody who touched this thing. Now complete one to 377 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:39.640 eighty exactly, amazing how things have changed. All right. We 378 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:42.960 got to talk XRP because it's a lot you know, 379 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:44.960 the XRP Army wants me to ask you guys a 380 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:45.799 ton of questions. 381 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:46.799 So you guys are. 382 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:49.599 Working closely with Ripple. Are you building with the XRP 383 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:50.319 ledger as well? 384 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:53.160 Yeah, well there's a lot that we will be able 385 00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:58.960 to share about that very soon. Our journey into the 386 00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:03.200 XOPL community was very interesting. I mean, we first started 387 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:06.240 working together with Ripple about two years ago now, in 388 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:09.559 order to bring more builders into the xrpl at ecosystem. 389 00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:10.720 It's one of the biggest. 390 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:15.000 Criticisms at the time, and you know this is pretty 391 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:18.079 valid criticism, is that there weren't enough people building on 392 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:22.240 the XRPLH. It was this fantastic piece of technology, but 393 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:26.200 we haven't seen the same applications built on the XRPL 394 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:28.759 that we've maybe seen an ethereum right where you have 395 00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:31.880 these killer billion dollar applications like UNI. 396 00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:35.160 Swap, like are they like compound you. 397 00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:37.559 Know on the xrplger that hasn't necessarily been that DeFi 398 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:43.000 renaissance or even explosion right, sort of not so much 399 00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:46.119 activity on the NFT space. There's amazing stuff that is 400 00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:49.960 going on with like XRB Cafe and those guys, but 401 00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:53.400