1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Maybe it's just a radio thing. Variety, give people a variety, 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:06,480 and that's what we do on aero dot net a 3 00:00:06,719 --> 00:00:10,000 r r oe dot net. It's not just a podcast 4 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:14,039 with rock stars and movie stars. Oh, it's about lifestyle 5 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:19,079 and beyond. It's variety a r r o e dot Net. 6 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,280 Enjoy the exploration, dude. I got to tell you something. 7 00:00:22,359 --> 00:00:25,839 I love Under City in so many different reasons and ways. 8 00:00:25,879 --> 00:00:28,199 And the reason why is because this is what I 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,239 call a universal age book. In other words, so many 10 00:00:31,239 --> 00:00:34,079 people from every age group are they're going to pick 11 00:00:34,119 --> 00:00:36,079 it up, they're going to take something from it, and 12 00:00:36,119 --> 00:00:38,159 they're going to talk about it. And when you can 13 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,880 do that, that that right there, that's the magic in 14 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:41,799 the creative soul. 15 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: Thank you. I I did. 16 00:00:45,439 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 3: I did like this book, having a lot of different 17 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,960 voices and a lot of different points of views. So 18 00:00:51,399 --> 00:00:54,960 I'm just reading this morning with with my girlfriend a 19 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,039 couple of sections from Aros in the Howls. 20 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,679 Speaker 2: So I just, uh, I don't know, I just I 21 00:01:00,119 --> 00:01:00,560 like it like that. 22 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 3: I liked the idea you can't actually you can just 23 00:01:03,719 --> 00:01:06,959 dive in and read the vignettes because they're not tied 24 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:07,879 to the plot of the book. 25 00:01:08,439 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: So it's not an easy way to read the book. 26 00:01:10,159 --> 00:01:11,359 But thank you. I appreciate that. 27 00:01:11,439 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: Well, it's because you give me everything that I want 28 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,840 as a reader. And I man, I'll tell you because 29 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,280 I am so connected to like all different age groups. 30 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:21,480 You can sit there, you place the book in front 31 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,480 of them and they're going, this is amazing. And I 32 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,079 sit there and I go, I've got to ask, MANI 33 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:30,120 if this is about an escape? Is this about a 34 00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:32,760 world that they would like to explore themselves because of 35 00:01:32,879 --> 00:01:35,519 what's going on with our VR goggles nowadays? And it's 36 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,040 like you're in the right place at the right time 37 00:01:38,079 --> 00:01:39,719 with this storyline. 38 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,239 Speaker 2: It seems, so, that's for sure. 39 00:01:43,079 --> 00:01:46,879 Speaker 3: The thing is is that when I wrote Metropolis, which 40 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,719 is scrotsy companion it is, I didn't I wrote it 41 00:01:49,719 --> 00:01:50,480 a long time ago. 42 00:01:50,599 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 2: I wrote some of it. 43 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 3: And then when I actually wrote it through twenty nineteen, 44 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,799 our world hadn't quite drifted in this direction and understated 45 00:01:57,879 --> 00:02:00,840 the same sort of thing. I had to be true 46 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,400 to that world, even though it has clear and obvious 47 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:05,400 references to ours. 48 00:02:05,799 --> 00:02:08,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, now is that kind of weird being a visionary 49 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:09,680 like that? Or do you see it as just now 50 00:02:09,719 --> 00:02:13,080 I'm just storytelling. I'm fine, But yet, like you, you know, 51 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:14,680 like you said and when you when you wrote the 52 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,840 other one Metropolis, I mean, it was like it hadn't 53 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:18,719 been taking place yet. 54 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I am very connected to what's going on 55 00:02:23,439 --> 00:02:27,759 in the world, and I guess that when I'm sort 56 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,240 of done with this book and I'm thinking about it 57 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,639 has references to our world. It has references also to 58 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:39,800 let's say, uh, Germany in the forties, so with the 59 00:02:39,879 --> 00:02:44,599 desolations that we have in this book being sort of 60 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,439 reference from the war in the Soviet Union in the forties. 61 00:02:47,479 --> 00:02:48,599 Speaker 2: So it's just I don't know it. 62 00:02:49,439 --> 00:02:51,879 Speaker 3: It does drift back and forth in my mind about 63 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,280 making these references. But also the book has to have 64 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,039 other things too as well, right, so it can just 65 00:02:57,159 --> 00:03:00,560 be well, my publisher, my publishers is reading and she said, 66 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,199 well is it is it all? No? No, no, no, 67 00:03:03,479 --> 00:03:06,120 well it doesn't have a happy end, shees, but don't 68 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:06,960 tell me, don't tell me. 69 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 2: I go, well, don't tell me. 70 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: So And yet one of my big attractions to it 71 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,280 is the fact that it has so many vignettes to it, 72 00:03:16,319 --> 00:03:18,479 because it's it's one of those things where it's like 73 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,960 I can read about each one, and then and then 74 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:22,879 when it's time for bed, you go to bed tomorrow 75 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,000 we pick up another vignette. And I mean it just 76 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:26,719 when you have a lot of characters like this, I 77 00:03:26,759 --> 00:03:29,280 don't get lost. What I do is I feel community. 78 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,719 Did you feel a community while you were putting together? 79 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 3: Yeah? I think that, even though it's pretty obvious that 80 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,400 first of all, that the vignettes all take place in 81 00:03:38,439 --> 00:03:42,800 the past ye as to the narratives book, but also 82 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:49,000 at different times, but they all are connected in a 83 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,960 maybe maybe not so obvious a way, certainly they are. 84 00:03:52,759 --> 00:03:55,159 The Only one I think is an outlayer is Iroson Owl, 85 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,400 because again it's the novel sessions of a novel within 86 00:03:58,439 --> 00:04:01,000 the novel, and only seven chaps. We don't really know 87 00:04:01,039 --> 00:04:04,240 the whole book, and so where that ends in Herison 88 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,680 is not necessarily where Freilie Vilpik's novel ends. We don't 89 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:09,199 know how it is. 90 00:04:09,479 --> 00:04:11,639 Speaker 1: Well, how did you put focus on the continuity on 91 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,919 something like that, because you know how as writers we 92 00:04:14,039 --> 00:04:16,000 can go on a tangent. Is that something that you 93 00:04:16,079 --> 00:04:17,920 depend on your editor to keep you in line on? 94 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:19,680 Do you know, just get it out, as they always 95 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,720 tell me, get it out. We'll worry about that later on. 96 00:04:21,879 --> 00:04:22,959 Just get it out. 97 00:04:23,439 --> 00:04:25,639 Speaker 3: Yeah. I had no editing in this book. I did 98 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,920 my editor. Let's he just lets me. He lets me 99 00:04:27,959 --> 00:04:32,319 do what I want. He loves my writing. I'll tell you, okay, 100 00:04:32,399 --> 00:04:35,240 I'll tell you what the tricky thing was. Book is done, 101 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,439 all the all the vignettes are written. Now where do 102 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,920 they go to? Where do they sit? That was not 103 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,839 so obvious. Let's say, Marco in one chapter muses on 104 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,839 where Mirace is from Race's mother, and so I thought, okay, okay, okay, 105 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,360 I'm going to put her vignette right after that chapter. 106 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,439 Others were just not not obvious, and so I have 107 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,360 to say in somebody's there sort of arbitrary And did 108 00:05:01,399 --> 00:05:03,680 you get did you seen the version of the book 109 00:05:03,759 --> 00:05:06,920 with the with the orphan? Yes in there? Yes, okay, 110 00:05:07,319 --> 00:05:09,040 So the orphan is tricky to play too, but I 111 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,279 always thought the orphan had to be there. 112 00:05:11,399 --> 00:05:13,639 Speaker 2: I will tell you a story about the about the orphan. 113 00:05:14,399 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 3: I wrote that probably about almost two years ago, and 114 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,079 I wrote about five or six pages of it and 115 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,680 didn't like it, hated it, thought it wasn't doing it right. 116 00:05:24,759 --> 00:05:29,000 You know, the sort of comparison to a concentration camp train, 117 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,399 and I thought it was failing it, so I stopped 118 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,639 and then and then about a year later, I decided, okay, 119 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,079 let me have another look at it. What I'm gonna 120 00:05:39,079 --> 00:05:41,160 do is I'm going to delete everything below the title 121 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,160 and start over. I read it. It was thirteen pages, 122 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,920 not five or six. And here's a weird thing. It 123 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,600 was all really great, almost perfect. It hardly changed a 124 00:05:50,639 --> 00:05:54,959 single word. But I have literally no memory of writing 125 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:55,920 a single word of that. 126 00:05:56,439 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: You were I loved it moments like that because you 127 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:01,879 were called to the page to write it. You weren't 128 00:06:01,879 --> 00:06:03,639 the one that had to do the storyline. That was 129 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,079 somebody else. That's that's from an area that one day 130 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:06,560 you'll meet. 131 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think now. My theory as to why that 132 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,040 is is that I read, I wrote forward all the 133 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:16,000 way those thirteen pages, stopped and never read. I never 134 00:06:16,079 --> 00:06:19,800 read back a single one event. So that's why that's 135 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:21,839 why I don't remember it, because I never reread it. 136 00:06:21,879 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 2: I never read. Anybody just literally. 137 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 3: Wrote forward, sent for I sent and stopped because I 138 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,199 thought it wasn't working, and then never looked at it 139 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:29,040 until a year later. 140 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: So it is does that qualify as stream thinking then, 141 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:33,680 I mean, if you've got enough confidence and courage to 142 00:06:33,759 --> 00:06:35,000 do that and not go back. 143 00:06:36,399 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think most of my most of the Metropolis 144 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,160 and under City were written like that. I just I 145 00:06:41,199 --> 00:06:44,199 didn't really, I'll try you. The only place I had 146 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:45,879 to do editing and I knew I was rented was 147 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,519 in the on that underground river with Marco and his 148 00:06:48,639 --> 00:06:50,800 uh and his companions. I I that was it was 149 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:52,439 too much of it, and so I just and all 150 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,199 I did editing there is just went through and cut 151 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:58,040 everything I could and to keep but keep the nerve. Otherwise, 152 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,279 the rest of the book, the Gypsy things, RAS's story 153 00:07:02,399 --> 00:07:07,160 of Pireade story and Marco's couple two stories were pretty 154 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,600 I didn't hardly edit anything though, they just wrote it. 155 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,279 Speaker 2: It was I liked it. I don't know. 156 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:17,319 Speaker 3: These books actually aren't complicated, but they were really easy 157 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,079 to write, and I think they're pretty easy to read too, 158 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:21,000 Was it you conn? 159 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,879 Speaker 1: Was it easy to tap into their personalities and once 160 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:25,680 you were in there, Because I know sometimes when I'm 161 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,519 writing then it takes me a little bit to shake 162 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,199 off that that particular scene or person so I can 163 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:32,959 get back to being a real self or I want 164 00:07:32,959 --> 00:07:34,560 to sit there and start acting out that book in 165 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:35,600 front of everybody else. 166 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point. 167 00:07:37,639 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 3: Well, you see, the thing is that by having Marco, 168 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:46,879 guys Pire, Pirenee and Mira's walking together and Engine dialogue, 169 00:07:48,519 --> 00:07:52,519 they were developing for me their characters that then were 170 00:07:52,519 --> 00:07:56,160 pretty easy for me to evoke in their integral vignettes. 171 00:07:57,439 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: See, that's a part of writing that I wish that 172 00:07:59,279 --> 00:08:02,839 readers could pick up on, is that how it's built 173 00:08:02,879 --> 00:08:04,360 like a song. In fact, I was going to ask 174 00:08:04,399 --> 00:08:06,199 you about that when when it came to laying out 175 00:08:06,199 --> 00:08:08,959 each one of the vignettes, was it like building an album? 176 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,120 And now do you find yourself going, yeah, I think 177 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:12,560 I could do the album thing. 178 00:08:13,839 --> 00:08:17,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's actually it's actually pretty easy. I done 179 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,319 certain things writing, at least for these books, were pretty simple. 180 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:24,759 It's just again, as I said, it is the structure 181 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,720 that was complicated, and I think I undervalued it in 182 00:08:28,759 --> 00:08:32,279 my head in what order these things were going to go. 183 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,600 I think I thought it would be obvious, But yeah, 184 00:08:34,639 --> 00:08:35,960 it ends up being obvious. 185 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:37,799 Speaker 1: Well, one of the things that you do, and you've 186 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:39,600 brought up Marco a couple of times here, is the 187 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,679 fact that maybe it's because I've been a journal writer 188 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,440 since July of nineteen ninety four. But I was so 189 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,200 attracted to that in the way that I'm going, wait 190 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,440 a second way, who whoa whoa whohoa. Moni seems to 191 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:51,519 be the type of person that knows what journaling is 192 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:55,279 because he's identifying something that only somebody who writes journals 193 00:08:55,399 --> 00:08:56,240 could relate with. 194 00:08:57,759 --> 00:09:00,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, although I never do a journal, Really, how did 195 00:09:00,759 --> 00:09:01,600 you nail it? Dan? 196 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: I read a lot okay rights novels. 197 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:10,159 Speaker 3: It's so so this structure to the book, for instance, 198 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,000 really came to me, uh beating Roberta Bolania is the 199 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,200 Savage Detectives, where he has one narrative sort of beginning 200 00:09:18,159 --> 00:09:19,960 of the book, a young guy and then and then 201 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,279 the whole middle of the book is all different voices 202 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,559 telling it, telling the story, and and then and then 203 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:26,480 the kid comes in at the end again in the 204 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,559 last chapters. So I so I thought, well, that's a 205 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,559 good structure for this. Also there is remember there are 206 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:37,360 Sherman Anderson's Weinsburg, Ohio and uh, various books like that 207 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,159 with multiple narratives. So I had I had the literary 208 00:09:40,639 --> 00:09:43,120 these of my literary add of scenes for this. So 209 00:09:43,159 --> 00:09:46,000 I knew how I knew it could work. The voices 210 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,080 are so different for me that they weren't really hard 211 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:49,919 to differentiate. 212 00:09:50,399 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 2: I really did find that way. 213 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 3: And I like the poetics of the gypsy she was 214 00:09:56,039 --> 00:09:57,639 releasing to write. 215 00:09:58,320 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: She was sort of. 216 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 3: Inspired to away by uh, Paul Klelo with a sort 217 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,320 of a it's a lot of I think in the 218 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,840 gypsy sort of magic realism. And yeah, it's just this 219 00:10:10,879 --> 00:10:13,240 book has a lot of different influences and so I 220 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:15,679 was able to bring them all in to write this book. 221 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 2: A lot of interest I have. 222 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: So then the gypsy character, do you find yourself being 223 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,080 that's the one that you pull from this story and 224 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,200 kind of adopt into your own personal life, because I mean, 225 00:10:24,279 --> 00:10:26,120 I mean, as it was, without the editor and stuff 226 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,440 like that, you were kind of wandering around like like 227 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,440 a gypsy. You knew what you were doing. Just to 228 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:31,480 let you do it. 229 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,519 Speaker 3: Yeah, I just, uh, I don't know, it's you know, 230 00:10:36,639 --> 00:10:41,039 reading ends up being my editor. I mean, my publisher, 231 00:10:41,279 --> 00:10:44,960 Gary Groth a super brilliant guy. He does read a lot. 232 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,240 He's a extreamly well read guy. But he trusts me 233 00:10:48,279 --> 00:10:51,679 as a writer. And he told me once that he 234 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,919 doesn't buy an author's books to edit. He buys them 235 00:10:55,919 --> 00:10:59,480 because of how the person writes, so he he likes, 236 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,519 he likes, right, He said, you're a great writer, and 237 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:03,679 so he trusts me, and then I'm able to just 238 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:04,399 do my own thing. 239 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 2: But I do I do know how to edit. 240 00:11:07,639 --> 00:11:09,879 Speaker 3: I do know you know what to leave in, what 241 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,720 to leave out right, and so I don't know. It's 242 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:14,600 just it's kind of funny. 243 00:11:14,639 --> 00:11:15,799 Speaker 2: Yes, this book was. It was. 244 00:11:15,919 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 3: It's complicated, but it was fairly easy to write, and 245 00:11:18,639 --> 00:11:22,519 the characters all have their own place. Gypsy is different. 246 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,840 The soldier I liked writing him. He was pretty hopeless, right, 247 00:11:26,919 --> 00:11:33,000 so I like writing him. And the policeman and is 248 00:11:33,159 --> 00:11:34,600 operating a moral cloud. 249 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: So that was the tone of that one. They're all 250 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:38,480 kind of different in that sense. 251 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: I would love to see how many people are going 252 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,159 to identify with Flora, only because I mean, Flora does 253 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,399 not like to live in the dark. But yet Florida 254 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,600 has that side to her that we're going that's kind 255 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,080 of a rebel, that's kind of a dark side. I'm 256 00:11:51,279 --> 00:11:54,720 being drawn into into a character here than that. You 257 00:11:54,759 --> 00:11:56,840 either want to be or you go, I know, someone 258 00:11:57,039 --> 00:11:57,600 like Flora. 259 00:11:58,519 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, Floraville. Uh, it was okay, this is actually kind 260 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,639 of interesting too. So it's again, I don't have any 261 00:12:03,639 --> 00:12:08,039 memory of writing her her story. But as I said, 262 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,360 I have no memory of writing that that her journal, 263 00:12:10,519 --> 00:12:11,480 but or diary. 264 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,919 Speaker 2: But when I when I finished it, just for a reference, 265 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:16,679 I went and. 266 00:12:16,639 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 3: Read, uh are you there? 267 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,039 Speaker 1: God is me and Margaret, oh yeah, oh yeah yeah. 268 00:12:21,279 --> 00:12:24,279 Speaker 3: It turns out that her character was her character. Margaret 269 00:12:24,399 --> 00:12:26,600 was the same age as for of Ail, thirteen years old, 270 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,879 and so my language, my style of that writing was 271 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,039 almost identical. And I never I never read, of course, 272 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,519 to that little book before, but I read an afternoon. 273 00:12:36,519 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 2: It was pretty pretty easy to read. 274 00:12:37,759 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 3: But it was interesting to see that that it was 275 00:12:40,159 --> 00:12:41,639 that I thought I did it right. 276 00:12:41,919 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 2: I thought I did. 277 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:44,799 Speaker 3: I thought I thought it. I thought her journal, I mean, 278 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,960 her diary sounds like a thirteen year old girl. 279 00:12:47,759 --> 00:12:50,519 Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with Monty Scholes coming 280 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:55,200 up next. The name of the book under City. We 281 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,639 are back with author Monty Sholes. Well, how did it 282 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,080 make you feel knowing that you you know, we're talking 283 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,480 about journal writers, we're talking about diary writers. Do you 284 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,879 feel like you were invading their personal space? Or it's like, ah, 285 00:13:07,039 --> 00:13:09,240 I'm here with you, I'm gonna walk with you. You're 286 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,240 not alone. When it comes to these these outlets. 287 00:13:12,399 --> 00:13:15,799 Speaker 3: Well, I think it's that, as I said, there are 288 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,720 several books that have multiple narrators, Yeah, multiple stories. Even 289 00:13:20,039 --> 00:13:24,879 Steinbeck's Pastors of Heaven is a novel told with multiple voices, 290 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,399 So it wasn't so, I mean, that's the group I 291 00:13:27,399 --> 00:13:29,080 think I really identified with, and that I don't really 292 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,279 think about journal but but I guess I think because yes, 293 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,919 we do have journals, right, So so Flora Veil's is 294 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,919 a diary. Mark is I think the chapters of Marketers 295 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,960 journal entry, blah blah blah. So they're sort of like that. 296 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:44,759 I don't know. They're all kind of different, right, They're 297 00:13:44,759 --> 00:13:46,080 all they're all really different. 298 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,039 Speaker 1: Well, a couple of things that you've mastered in one 299 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,320 of them is the fact that no time do I 300 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,720 feel like that the characters are showcased by a passing thought. 301 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,960 In other words, it's part of the story. It's part 302 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,080 of the growing storyline, which as a reader, I'm going, god, dang, 303 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,080 this just fits together like a classic, you know, a puzzle. 304 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, And the other thing is interesting I saw after 305 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:11,840 the book was the references to Metropolis, but since since 306 00:14:11,919 --> 00:14:15,840 Metropolis was published first, that meant it's sort of any 307 00:14:15,919 --> 00:14:17,919 references or cut in stone, you know, how to spell 308 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,039 someone's name when something happened and had to add to dovetail. 309 00:14:21,279 --> 00:14:28,360 But say, remember Flora Vale's story dovetails with Julian's visit 310 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,480 to the Hippodrome right at the end of Metropolis. So 311 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,759 so there these stories do do connect here and there 312 00:14:34,919 --> 00:14:37,679 tangentially marco of courses in Metropolis. 313 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,279 Speaker 2: And I don't know, it's just it just kind of 314 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:44,559 all fit together. I have to say. 315 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 3: I don't. 316 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 2: I didn't. 317 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,799 Speaker 3: I don't take very many notes. I just write it forward. 318 00:14:49,879 --> 00:14:53,159 I took notes sort of names of things and foods 319 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:53,879 and cars and. 320 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:54,279 Speaker 2: That sort of thing. 321 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,639 Speaker 3: But otherwise I don't have a I didn't have an outline. 322 00:14:58,679 --> 00:15:00,960 I never do that, you see to me, I'm too 323 00:15:01,039 --> 00:15:06,399 lazy to do that, and I just I So what 324 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,240 I do is I just I just right forward. 325 00:15:08,519 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 2: But I did. I was aware of how these things were. 326 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 3: So for example, and the Policeman where Mercy of Housman, 327 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,039 you know in the second chapter, they're just they're arresting people, 328 00:15:18,159 --> 00:15:20,840 you know, just like Ice now they're just arresting them 329 00:15:20,919 --> 00:15:22,919 and we take them away, and we never I realized 330 00:15:22,919 --> 00:15:25,960 after I wrote it, we never say why those those 331 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,480 Peta people were arrested. And I think that we just 332 00:15:28,519 --> 00:15:31,559 don't know, and it's not really important, but it's frightening nonetheless, 333 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,960 And so I was. I was very aware when I 334 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,320 started to just rab these people, take them out with 335 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,320 with not even really know why. I thought the reference 336 00:15:41,399 --> 00:15:43,519 is very similar, but it was like it was in 337 00:15:43,639 --> 00:15:46,480 Nazi Germany too, So I understand where these things can go. 338 00:15:46,759 --> 00:15:49,279 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because it just happened here in Charlotte four 339 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,159 hundred people, and please tell me why you took these 340 00:15:52,159 --> 00:15:54,399 four hundred people. I don't know. We'll get back to you. 341 00:15:54,679 --> 00:15:56,360 I mean that maybe that's one of the reasons why 342 00:15:56,399 --> 00:15:58,600 I'm so hooked on this. It's like, oh my god, 343 00:15:58,759 --> 00:16:01,840 he's got he's he had a vision. He's speaking about 344 00:16:01,879 --> 00:16:03,840 what's going on right now. But at the same time, 345 00:16:04,039 --> 00:16:06,120 it's from a different world. 346 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 2: Right because the same thing happened in Nazi Germany. 347 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,159 Speaker 3: People are rested or in this case, like in my book, 348 00:16:12,279 --> 00:16:15,559 they're taken away and they're shot, or I guess in 349 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,960 some cases there's mentioned to its summer gats. Some are 350 00:16:18,039 --> 00:16:21,559 just sent away so so and we don't really know 351 00:16:21,879 --> 00:16:25,159 why they're wrestling. Some of those people, like those two 352 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,879 young women the music teachers, why would they be arrested? 353 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:28,559 Speaker 2: Well, we don't know. 354 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,799 Speaker 1: Is that the reason why V asked the question can 355 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,879 we not remake this world? Because I mean that right 356 00:16:35,919 --> 00:16:38,919 there is a powerful statement. And as the author, I mean, 357 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,759 how did that fall out of you into this storyline? 358 00:16:41,799 --> 00:16:43,679 And did you have to sit back and go, oh, crap, 359 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:44,879 Now I got to live up to this. 360 00:16:46,039 --> 00:16:48,399 Speaker 2: Well, so she was. 361 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 3: She's a friend of mine who read Metropolis and loved 362 00:16:52,559 --> 00:16:54,720 under City, the under City part the best, and so 363 00:16:54,879 --> 00:16:57,440 for about a year or so after Metropolis, she said, 364 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:58,360 you have to write under City. 365 00:16:58,360 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 2: You have to write under City. 366 00:16:59,799 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 3: So I did, and I wrote her epigraph and so 367 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,279 when or her dedication? And then I thought, after the 368 00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:13,440 first one was there to to V who who required 369 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,359 requested the story? And I thought, I thought, uh, because 370 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,480 she and I have talked doctor forth about the how 371 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,559 to be optimistic? And so that's when I wrote that 372 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:27,039 line we not remake the world? I just thought, uh. 373 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,400 I thought, that's that's the question, can we? And I 374 00:17:29,519 --> 00:17:31,440 and I think when when you when you see the 375 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,640 disposition of Germany and Japan after World War Two. The 376 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,920 answer was, yes, we can remake the world. We can. 377 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,359 And so that's that. So the book has that sense 378 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,400 of optimism, as as as we hear in the very 379 00:17:45,599 --> 00:17:47,480 in Marco's epilogue. 380 00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 2: Right, how things changed? 381 00:17:48,599 --> 00:17:53,559 Speaker 3: Right, the fault, the faulty false science of spiriosis was dismissed. 382 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,000 People were let out of the inner city into sunlight 383 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,400 and blue skies for the first time in their lives. 384 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:00,279 Speaker 2: In the world was on. 385 00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:02,279 Speaker 3: But we have, Buddy says, but we have to keep 386 00:18:02,279 --> 00:18:04,279 an eye out, right, we have to pay attention. 387 00:18:04,599 --> 00:18:07,319 Speaker 1: And yet then now with with with you explaining the 388 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,480 storyline the way that you are, and I'm hearing your pitch, 389 00:18:09,559 --> 00:18:11,799 volume and tone. All of a sudden, now this book 390 00:18:11,839 --> 00:18:16,079 cover comes into play. Now I understand the vibrant appeal 391 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,039 to it and and and what's going on because it's 392 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,200 you know, so many times we hold a book but 393 00:18:20,279 --> 00:18:21,319 we don't get the cover. 394 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, okay, so I I don't know, I don't 395 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:29,880 know why. 396 00:18:30,039 --> 00:18:32,839 Speaker 2: I I don't know why. I look for it from 397 00:18:33,079 --> 00:18:33,920 Hieronymous Bosh. 398 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 3: It's from his triptych called The Gardener of Earthly Delights 399 00:18:37,079 --> 00:18:41,359 and that the cover is from third triptic called Hell, 400 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:47,000 and so I just thought it was a perfect idea 401 00:18:47,039 --> 00:18:48,839 for the cover. I wasn't really sure, but I showed 402 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,680 it to the owner in Kaylua and a couple of 403 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,960 other people. Everybody loved it. And it's such a massive ideas. 404 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,839 You know, there's little vignettes and I mean all those 405 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,400 little pictures of whatever. I thought. I couldn't conceive of 406 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,920 a better cover than that. 407 00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no there's absolutely no confusion in that book cover. 408 00:19:05,079 --> 00:19:08,640 I I call it, you know, control chaos. In other words, 409 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,039 we look at them, we go, oh yeah, I mean 410 00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:13,759 it's it's like, I mean, it just it flows, just 411 00:19:13,799 --> 00:19:16,759 the cover itself, which then leads me to opening the book, 412 00:19:16,799 --> 00:19:17,880 and then the journey begins. 413 00:19:18,599 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and then and and in the published book, 414 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,200 which you'd see actually on the PD if you flip 415 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,039 to the back. If you see the back of the 416 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:29,880 back cover is the first triptych uh and it's it's 417 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,680 sunlight and people are running around, not a weird character 418 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:35,960 is having a good time. And that was in the painting. 419 00:19:36,039 --> 00:19:38,720 That one was actually called the Garden of Earth of Delights, 420 00:19:38,759 --> 00:19:41,720 and so I think I think they provide a good 421 00:19:41,759 --> 00:19:43,880 parallel to each other to give an idea what this 422 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:44,519 book is about. 423 00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: Wow, well, one thing that it is about. And and 424 00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:49,240 you've you've mastered the art of what I call hid 425 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,039 and speak. I mean when you really break it all down. 426 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,880 I mean what I felt is that don't stay silent, 427 00:19:56,279 --> 00:19:59,400 always be an activator, right. 428 00:19:59,279 --> 00:20:01,319 Speaker 3: And I think I think that's why I like Marco 429 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,920 is a as a character, because you see he changes, 430 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:10,920 he learns, he grows. Whereas the perfect man Charles Kingston 431 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,440 Osborne says near the end that when as could he 432 00:20:13,519 --> 00:20:16,480 kill somebody's senses, I'm not premitted to kill people, and 433 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,319 and and he says, he says there are other solutions. 434 00:20:19,559 --> 00:20:22,079 I think Marco at the end was discovering there are 435 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,039 other solutions, and there need to be other solutions other 436 00:20:25,079 --> 00:20:27,880 than just mass violence. So I think there's that sense 437 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,200 of optimism in the book that we can make changes, 438 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,960 we can grow that line from terminator to no faith. 439 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,039 But what we make I think is I think is 440 00:20:36,079 --> 00:20:37,799 applicable in this So. 441 00:20:37,839 --> 00:20:40,519 Speaker 1: Now, did did you impersonate the voices as you were writing? 442 00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:42,319 Because so many times when I'm sitting here now I'm 443 00:20:42,319 --> 00:20:45,160 trying to put together a particular chapter or even just 444 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,880 a storyline. It's like I can hear their voices in 445 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,720 my head. Now the question is how do I put 446 00:20:49,759 --> 00:20:51,519 it on paper in order for it to match. 447 00:20:52,559 --> 00:20:56,519 Speaker 3: Yeah, they have to have their own verbal tics, their 448 00:20:56,559 --> 00:20:59,720 own little aforistic opinions about things. 449 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:01,799 Speaker 2: So, as I said, I think the gypsy. 450 00:21:01,519 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 3: Is very uh poetic. 451 00:21:04,759 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: Uh. 452 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 2: Marco Is has his style. Uh. 453 00:21:10,279 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 3: Let's see, Pyrenee sounds very arrogant and dangerous. But at 454 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,680 the same time, uh, I think Mira sounds very wistful. 455 00:21:19,759 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 2: The uh. 456 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 3: The cleric is very forceful in his in his uh uh, 457 00:21:26,759 --> 00:21:32,039 in his theology. The physician is very pragmatic. The soldiers, 458 00:21:32,039 --> 00:21:36,799 the soldier seems hopeless, right, it seems Ivaner you know 459 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:37,720 he said was hopeless. 460 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 2: He knows he knows as hopeless. 461 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,839 Speaker 3: Memory In identifying his rank at the end, he says 462 00:21:42,039 --> 00:21:44,799 a cannon fodder because he understands what it is. And 463 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,200 another hand, I think Flora Vale is optimistic as a child, 464 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,880 but in her little introduction she she's still bitter about 465 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,640 about what happened. Wow. 466 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: And you know, it's so funny when you describe it 467 00:21:55,759 --> 00:21:58,319 like that. It's like every one of these people could 468 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,519 be standing in line right now at the self checkout 469 00:22:01,519 --> 00:22:05,559 at Walmart, because I mean maybe, until you know someone's story, 470 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,519 they're just people wanting to check out, get to know 471 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:09,960 their story. 472 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. 473 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,839 Speaker 3: So that's the idea I wanted. 474 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 2: I wanted to tell who they are in this in 475 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:17,680 the context. 476 00:22:17,279 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 3: Of this uh this world right this this republic that 477 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,319 we know now the republic is when I first writing Metropolis, 478 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,599 I stopped the book in two thousand and three because 479 00:22:27,599 --> 00:22:30,000 they couldn't figure out how Julian was able to study 480 00:22:30,039 --> 00:22:32,240 the Greeks and Romans in a fictional republic and where's 481 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:33,200 this taking place. 482 00:22:33,319 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 2: Once I realized that the. 483 00:22:35,279 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 3: Republic is a part of the world we would know 484 00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:43,440 is France, and the provinces would be Germany and the 485 00:22:43,519 --> 00:22:45,400 Eastern Europe, it all kind of made sense. 486 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:46,799 Speaker 2: So so, and also. 487 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 3: There's that reference to all these other there's other provinces 488 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,079 of these other uh what I say, uh, people of 489 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:56,599 a cultural different cultural distinctions. It became easier and easier 490 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,640 to write this, to figure out the characters and how 491 00:22:58,640 --> 00:22:59,319 they're going to talk. 492 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: I love the fact that that you bring up that 493 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,680 you know everything in two thousand and three because so 494 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,920 many times you meet people that would love to be 495 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,920 an author, or they've got the skills to be a storyteller, 496 00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:12,279 and they think it can be done inside ten days, 497 00:23:12,319 --> 00:23:14,759 and you just you roll your eyes, and it's stories 498 00:23:14,799 --> 00:23:17,279 like this where I'm going. This is the proof all 499 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,400 I need. You've got to hang in there, don't let 500 00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:22,559 go of the story. It'll come back. 501 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. I also think that there's no substitute for reading. 502 00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:30,559 I know writers. I know so many writers who just say, no, 503 00:23:30,559 --> 00:23:32,880 I don't have time to read. I'm writing all the time. Wow, 504 00:23:33,079 --> 00:23:35,039 I don't even know what that writing is going to be. Like, 505 00:23:35,519 --> 00:23:38,680 I read a lot, and I read in both commercial 506 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,519 and literary fiction, back and forth. 507 00:23:40,559 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 2: I read, as I said, I was reading ROBERTA. 508 00:23:43,039 --> 00:23:49,079 Speaker 3: Blanio, reading Paul Bowles, and of course Faulkner and Fitzgerald 509 00:23:49,079 --> 00:23:50,279 those people also. 510 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 2: I also read Twilight, Fifty Days of Gray. 511 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 3: I read John Seford, I teach, John Grisham and Stephen King. 512 00:23:57,039 --> 00:23:59,279 I read all these people because all of them sort of. 513 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 2: Funnel into how I write. 514 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:05,599 Speaker 3: And I'm suspicious read widely anyhow, because it just it 515 00:24:05,799 --> 00:24:07,480 really limits what you can do as a writer. 516 00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: Well, then you would totally understand what Mark Twain was 517 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,279 saying in his autobiography when he says what needs to 518 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,000 happen is is that the authors need to locate their 519 00:24:16,079 --> 00:24:19,480 own writing accent, let them be the writer that they are, 520 00:24:19,519 --> 00:24:20,960 and quit trying to shape them. 521 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 3: Right. That's actually a good point, because I do find 522 00:24:24,279 --> 00:24:26,680 every writer ultimately finds his or her voice. 523 00:24:26,759 --> 00:24:29,559 Speaker 2: Yep, mine was. I was first inspired to write by 524 00:24:29,599 --> 00:24:30,799 my dad wanted me to read. 525 00:24:30,599 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 3: Passages, passages from Steinbeck and mostly from Thomas Wolfe Thomas 526 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,240 wolf and so I started writing my first novel, I was. 527 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,240 I was doing a very Tom Wolfie in impression, which 528 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,599 did not suit me, and I couldn't quite find my 529 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,160 voice until I read Carson En Cullers The Member of 530 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,839 the Wedding. And that's when I realized I could have poetic, 531 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,759 lyrical language but in a more straightforward narrative. And then 532 00:24:53,759 --> 00:24:57,400 I could start throwing in elements from other writers like 533 00:24:57,559 --> 00:25:01,559 Cormick McCarthy was very influential on me, and other jokes 534 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,559 in different ways. So and then again we're reading Paul 535 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,319 Coelo and and and Gabriel Garcia Marquez. I I was 536 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,960 able to learn how to use magic realism. And so 537 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,079 the book is really, uh. 538 00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 2: It's a miss. 539 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 3: It's a mismash of all the writers I've been reading, 540 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,279 and and they come in, uh, the those set pieces 541 00:25:23,319 --> 00:25:25,279 with uh in that hotel and near the end when 542 00:25:25,279 --> 00:25:29,000 they set up those all that has to be choreographed 543 00:25:29,079 --> 00:25:34,000 and the choreography of those violent things influenced by say, 544 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,240 the crime writer John Sandford. These set these set pieces 545 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,640 so at all. And I guess you know, Jack read 546 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,359 your novels too, set pieces. I learned how to do that, 547 00:25:42,759 --> 00:25:44,359 and so I can put him in a novel that 548 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,599 has influences by Paul Corelo and with magic realism and 549 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,640 all of that. This book. That's why I saying, So 550 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,559 everybody thinking finds some of the vignettes that will really 551 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:54,880 a build them, they'll really like it. 552 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,279 Speaker 2: The voice and the ideas. 553 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: Not just a novel. But to me, I'm seeing a 554 00:25:58,279 --> 00:26:00,119 binge watch here. But then the question is how how 555 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,279 do we set up the storyline? Do we go and 556 00:26:02,279 --> 00:26:05,599 and do you know, like eight to ten different episodes 557 00:26:05,599 --> 00:26:07,960 that are describing the characters, and then all of a sudden, 558 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,480 you know, we we bring the characters together and make 559 00:26:10,519 --> 00:26:11,000 it happen. 560 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I think I think, you know, if 561 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,079 this were uh, if this were let's stay one of 562 00:26:18,079 --> 00:26:21,880 those streaming miniseries some of the uh and it's just 563 00:26:22,079 --> 00:26:25,759 entered Understanding, not Metropolis, then I think they have their 564 00:26:25,799 --> 00:26:30,000 own episode and the writer, the viewer, the viewer is 565 00:26:30,039 --> 00:26:30,279 going to. 566 00:26:30,319 --> 00:26:33,079 Speaker 2: See how they would coalesces later on. 567 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,559 Speaker 3: Again, remember we dip back and forth to Marco Marcos 568 00:26:36,759 --> 00:26:40,279 is the is the present time narrative narration in the book, 569 00:26:40,319 --> 00:26:42,720 and so the others are drifting off. And it took 570 00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:44,599 me a while to realize that I was setting all 571 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,720 the vignettes in the past. So we know something, for example, 572 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,599 about some of the characters that they won't know. For example, 573 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,279 we know the fate of some of them before they 574 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,000 do so, and the reader will know or the reader 575 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,519 or the reader of Metropolis, for example, would have known 576 00:27:02,559 --> 00:27:04,240 what happens to some of these people, which I think 577 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,960 is good, but I don't know, it's just uh. I 578 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:08,920 like the idea that these things all take place in 579 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,519 the past at different times. Well. 580 00:27:10,559 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: See, I believe in that because being a third degree 581 00:27:12,759 --> 00:27:14,440 black belt in martial arts, one of the things that 582 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,359 they trained us to do was you've got to be 583 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,839 able to understand your past to being your present. And 584 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,039 that's what I feel in this. It's like, Okay, I'm 585 00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:24,960 going to understand Marco Moore by understanding what happened before 586 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,119 this is going on, so that we can grow the 587 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:27,920 story forward. 588 00:27:28,839 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 3: Absolutely, that's a very good point because even he well 589 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,839 we can, we can be assured that. I think my 590 00:27:36,279 --> 00:27:38,319 idea is is Marco is that put Marco put this 591 00:27:38,319 --> 00:27:42,440 whole book together, and remember he's also doing it. 592 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,519 Speaker 2: What what for him or for us going to be 593 00:27:44,559 --> 00:27:45,160 in the future. 594 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 3: You know when he's looking back to this, because he 595 00:27:48,079 --> 00:27:51,240 says in his applog years past to an often too 596 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:56,759 many account, so he's had a he had he as well, 597 00:27:56,799 --> 00:27:59,480 has had a perspective. I think that's why he's chosen 598 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,680 what he did, Like like in Metropolis Julians, Julian wrote 599 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,039 Metropolis eight years after the fact. I think I think 600 00:28:07,079 --> 00:28:09,680 it's I think Flora Vale's part was written many many 601 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:14,039 years after her the events of her story. So it's 602 00:28:14,079 --> 00:28:16,400 just I don't know, it's it's it's a complicated book, 603 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,119 but it's pretty easy to follow. 604 00:28:18,039 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 2: The purpose of the narration. 605 00:28:19,559 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 3: Why I chose what I chose? 606 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: How did you keep the continuity alive in the way 607 00:28:23,519 --> 00:28:25,640 of knowing where you were on the calendar, because I 608 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,160 remember my second book. I mean I got lost on 609 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,119 the on the time period and when somebody finally come 610 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,319 and said this isn't going to work, you missed out 611 00:28:32,319 --> 00:28:35,279 on something. Dude, There's no feasible way that this could 612 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,640 happen in this storyline because somewhere in here you forgot 613 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:39,319 about a date. 614 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's called proof reading for me. You know, take 615 00:28:45,279 --> 00:28:47,000 a look and master them. Because I was just thinking. 616 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,079 I was just thinking, as we're talking here, I thought, no, 617 00:28:49,079 --> 00:28:54,880 wait a second, Flora Vale. Flora Vale tells how many 618 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,200 years after the fact. I think she said eighteen years 619 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,200 or something, but of been eighteen But I realized, so, 620 00:29:02,279 --> 00:29:05,680 how does it fit with Marco putting this together? I realized, Well, 621 00:29:06,559 --> 00:29:11,839 Marco doesn't say how long after all these events he's writing. 622 00:29:11,519 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 2: This that saves me? 623 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 3: That saves me? Okay, he doesn't say, we just know 624 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,480 that it has to be outside of Flora Vale's narrative. 625 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,640 Her story has to be has to be past that. 626 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,319 So it but yeah, I mean you have to check, 627 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,599 and I checked. So that's how it works. 628 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: I think, Wow, where can people go to find out 629 00:29:30,279 --> 00:29:33,079 more about what you're doing and growing with as well 630 00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:35,400 as let's find out more about Metropolis as well, because 631 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,799 there's always a new reader somewhere and I want to 632 00:29:37,839 --> 00:29:38,519 get to them all. 633 00:29:39,519 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 3: Have you seen the website for under City or Metropolis? Yes? Yeah, 634 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,119 So Metropolis is interesting because it has sort of a 635 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,920 slide show of sorts of the story. 636 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 2: I don't want people to go to the end, and 637 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:55,039 you can see it. 638 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,599 Speaker 3: Under City, though, has all it has all the characters, 639 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,000 a little backstory from all from my all exits of 640 00:30:01,079 --> 00:30:03,359 my book. So that's a good place to go. It's 641 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,119 it's pretty easy to it's pretty pretty easy to get 642 00:30:06,119 --> 00:30:08,119 a feel for both of those books by going to 643 00:30:08,359 --> 00:30:12,079 Metropolis the book dot com and then under City the 644 00:30:12,079 --> 00:30:14,640 book dot com. You can see the characters, the names 645 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,319 of foods, names of cars, names of institutions and everything, 646 00:30:18,319 --> 00:30:20,799 and pictures of the characters. How we how we sort 647 00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:22,279 of envision what they really look like. 648 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,599 Speaker 1: God, your spot on when it comes to where people are, 649 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,559 because when you have the website that's attached to the 650 00:30:26,599 --> 00:30:29,319 storyline like that, that to me is a ticket to ride, 651 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,759 just like the Beatles saying about you know, because you're 652 00:30:31,799 --> 00:30:33,720 always looking for that one thing that's going to lead 653 00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:35,720 you to the next part of of a of a 654 00:30:35,759 --> 00:30:36,640 particular book. 655 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. 656 00:30:37,759 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly it. And that's what I want to do. 657 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,640 My web designers who always tell me that those websites 658 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,799 are too big. They're too bigger. You know, I like them. 659 00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:47,279 Speaker 2: I like them, I like I don't like websites. 660 00:30:47,319 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 3: I only have two pages on it, right, So, so 661 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,960 you learn a lot about these characters. You learn about 662 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,200 the story and the ideas in in in parts of 663 00:30:56,279 --> 00:30:58,920 my the websites, you know, it's the stories about talking 664 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,160 about love and talking about out uh war, and and 665 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,240 and in this one and for under City, eugenics and society, 666 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,160 and you just read about it, so you can kind 667 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,240 of make the lifts out of them. When I go 668 00:31:10,279 --> 00:31:11,920 to a book tour, I think I'm gonnain eve gonna 669 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,000 call up the website. 670 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,839 Speaker 2: It's easier then, you know, flipping through the book. She'll 671 00:31:15,839 --> 00:31:16,519 be right there. 672 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:17,119 Speaker 3: I love it. 673 00:31:17,119 --> 00:31:18,559 Speaker 1: Man, dude, You've got to come back to this show 674 00:31:18,599 --> 00:31:20,640 anytime in the future. The door is always going to 675 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:21,400 be open for you. 676 00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 2: Thank you. 677 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 3: This is a very good interview. I appreciated a lot 678 00:31:27,519 --> 00:31:29,240 because you know the book that's very important. 679 00:31:29,319 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: Excellent you provided the book, so I can't. I need 680 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,319 to thank you a billion times and to give me 681 00:31:34,359 --> 00:31:37,200 that opportunity to step into the storyline, because then this 682 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,039 way we can talk about it and I can hear 683 00:31:39,119 --> 00:31:41,759 it in your voice. That is so important to me. 684 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 3: Thank you and the reader and people can they can 685 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,759 bind the book too off the website should they choose, 686 00:31:47,799 --> 00:31:51,400 So that's kind of good too. Thank you, Chill. 687 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,079 Speaker 1: You'll be brilliant today. 688 00:31:53,119 --> 00:31:54,599 Speaker 3: Okay, thank you. 689 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 2: I appreciate you too. 690 00:31:56,119 --> 00:31:57,279 Speaker 3: Okay, take them care