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Speaker 4: Meaning a live man like that man letting butterfly flattening
way take down in a forest.
Speaker 6: Man, it gonna cause a tree fall, letting five thousand
miles away.
Speaker 7: Man, nobody see nobody.
Speaker 8: See you know need no man, you don't it like
you fall in the story and.
Speaker 9: You get like you like that that's the way, or
like ant panel Man, I.
Speaker 10: Don't have no matter many.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm an.
Speaker 11: Ye percent im.
Speaker 6: We're already recorded, but we can't forget your pond. We
got to like end on your pond. So let's all
forget because we forgot that last time. Hello, it was
actually show you can't do that. We're just rolling in
funny thing. Actually you bring up the DuPonts h a
bunch of the cars at the car collection I worked at,
which I've spoken about to you and on air. We're
owned by all the old American uh industrialist families, including
the DuPonts, and so we had oh I think it
was tapped. And then Roosevelt, who obviously is you know,
from that area, UH, had a steam car, like a massive,
like eight thousand pounds steam car. Uh.
Speaker 11: It was huge. Everyone was terrified of it. No one
wanted to see if it worked because you've got to remember,
this is a eight thousand pounds steam car. So it's
just a bomb, right. It is a road going locomotive.
It was designed by some company that hasn't existed since
nineteen oh six. All of the gaskets were hand hammered
rope gaskets like a sailing ship, and it was fed
off of kerosene and it was so.
Speaker 6: Sad, like imagine sinew gaskets, like, wow, that's that jaws
the mind.
Speaker 11: Yeah, and no one knew how it worked because no
one since basically then, had been brave enough to try
to get it working. But when we finally moved it,
it had been sitting and the wheels were like the
wheels on a locomotive.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 11: There was giant like cartwheels with like an iron band
around them.
Speaker 6: Shit.
Speaker 11: It actually sunk into the floor. The concrete floor been
like crushed into the ground. But uh, those those early
American industrialists had very interesting They were early adopters of
cards and like the very early brass age cadillacs like
the k's and the stuff like that. Uh, a lot
of them were again owned by those families, and they
it's like the same build style as like a Model
T you know, where you've got like the big brass
lamps and the kind of you know, convertible top, but
it is just scaled up and not in the way
that you would normally scale something up. But it's just
like they kind of selected the whole car and just
hit the plus key like six or seven times. So
you said you look like a child in a pretend car.
Speaker 6: Jesus, Yeah, the uh.
Speaker 11: It's as per usual, Marcus. You and I've been talking
for like twenty five minutes before we started going about
just completely up. Yeah, und.
Speaker 6: So, Uh, it's kind of funny and it's sort of
I guess you have these kind of relationships in our
circus where you get people can talk about anything. It's
kind of funny. How I think how we kind of
almost touched on DuPont last time. Is it somehow we
got on the topic of lake. I think I think
it's like a cooking thing, if Fariss is correct, and
like I's all like pots and pans and stuff. It's like, oh,
by the way, speaking of you know, basically like the
ways in by which the regime poisons us. And it's oh,
by the way, there's this whole story about DuPont and
the du Pont factory in Virginia, and there's this farmer
and you know he took them to court, et cetera.
And we didn't actually venture to the story, but you know,
like we sort of end up there and then you know,
we'll talk about you know, automotive stuff and racing and
you know, our various experience that we had in those circles.
And then you know, we've always ventured a history and
it's never short of interesting sort of quirks and and
you know tangents which I find, you know, boys, entertaining
and fun.
Speaker 11: Well, here's the thing. Is someone who now does this
professionally and puts out you know, five episodes a week minimum,
it is very easy. And you see this with anyone
who makes politics all they talk about all the time.
They will go insane. We will drive your you will
turn yourself into a lunatic, right, you'll end up like
Tempoole or candase Ons or whatever. And so you need
to whenever you're starting to feel the weight of it's
so over, talk about something completely irrelevant. And this is
the advantage of creating no expectation with your audience at all,
where it's like, oh, are we gonna do politics or
is it going to be four straight episodes talking about cards,
Dutch kickboxing from the nineteen eighties and the DuPont Factory.
It's a good way to keep yourself from going insane,
because yeah.
Speaker 6: If you don't about John Claude van Dam, go to
YouTube right now. You need to watch blood Sport.
Speaker 11: Actually, the funny story is, do you know the story
of the guy who who wrote blood Sport?
Speaker 6: Okay, I don't know the details level, but I know
there is a backstory to it. But you'll have to
refresh my memory. I know there is, because I mean
Vandam had a few of these in his career where
he like nabbed ideas off people and then just like
in the midst of his ten thousand dollars a week
coke habit like didn't pay people or give people credit
and all this sort of quite while that.
Speaker 11: Okay, so two things. One, you're you're a med you'll
appreciate this. Jean Claude van Dam's daughter very attractive, impressively
so and we'll kick yours I know, which is I want.
Speaker 6: To say you not as you, but like would kick
all our asses because she's yeah, it's like.
Speaker 11: Every time this. And to be fair, she's not like
you see the videos of her going around every once
and while, because she is a very talented martial artist,
and you know, she doesn't seem to be kind of
leaning into, you know, being attractive woman. She seems to
be trying to treat herself seriously. But the comments under
it are hilarious. It'll be her kicking some some high
back and it'll just be like, I wish that were me.
Four thousand likes.
Speaker 6: Yes, that's fun. I want her to kick me right now,
any time.
Speaker 11: But so for reference, if you remember, in Blood Sport,
it says it is based on a true story. It
is based off of the alleged memoirs of a guy
known as Frank Dukes, who, by the way, would later
end up suing Jean Claude van Dam over the rights
to blood Sport. It got really nasty.
Speaker 6: But Frank and actually named the character Frank Looks in
the movie by the way, for those who haven't watched.
Speaker 11: It right well, because his claim was that blood sport
is a real thing, like that is he is. He
did that. So Frank Dukes is a all time American shister.
Basically in the sixties and seventies, there wasn't a lot
known about martial arts. This was before the Internet, and
so there was a lot of these kind of snake
oil salesmen. And he wrote this series of books about
him self liberally stealing from James Bond, you know, kind
of Bruce Lee movies, and basically said that he was
trained by this Japanese man name something Tiger Tanaka was
his name, and you know, he became this like, you know,
practitioner of nunjitsu at like sixteen, he was pulled into
the CIA. You know, all these kind of tall tales.
But what's made it funny is throughout his entire like
and he's still around, he has continued to hold that
blood sport is a real thing that happens, and that
he is like the one person who knows about this
kind of secret society.
Speaker 6: There's a collection about these guys, logs into the Eastern Ways, you.
Speaker 11: Know, one hundred percent, and all of his claims are wild,
Like his books are basically personal fan fiction where it's
talking about like traveling the world killing people. He says
that he gave up the Sword of Heaven to save
children from Somali pirates, like all kinds of crazy stuff.
And so of course in the era of like mixed
martial arts on the Internet, he's not fared well. Like
he got very seriously beaten by a cage fighter not
that long ago, like in the mid two thousands. But
uh yeah, he's just kind of a funny character, like
making these wild, outrageous claims and refusing to back down
on anything, like well after he's been fully debunked. But
uh yeah, there's a whole like cadre of those guys
that were part of the Black Dragon Societies, I think
what they were called, And it was very much this
sort of thing. Where did you ever read Soldier of
Fortune magazine?
Speaker 6: I once had as an avid reader, but like I
flicked through the occasional copy. One of one of our
workers used to used to have like a subscription to it,
so like when have you comes to the farm? So
I read it every time he brought it with him.
So yeah, and.
Speaker 11: This this was really yeah, this was really big in
like American gun culture, like the militia movement, and so
like I was always around that and so grew up
eating you know, old issues of Soldier of Fortune, which
would be kind of a mix of like complete and
total nonsense, you know, testing like ninja weapons and stuff,
and then like actually kind of interesting reporting, really involved
actually in the popularization of Rhodesia in America, both literally
running guns to Rhodesia and then also you know getting
you know Vietnam bits over there to fight. Yeah, one
hundred percent. So it's kind of a mixed bag. But
in the back there would always be these advertisements which
were crazy. Infamously enough, there was a case of a
killer for hire in the back of Soldier of Fortune magazine.
I think it went to the spring Court. I don't
entirely remember, but it would be for things like you know,
Soviet night vision goggles and you know, surplus rifles, and
then you know, you could send five dollars in the
mail to the Black Dragon Society and get a manual
on how to use the dim mock to kill someone
with a single touch from Frank Dukes. And so I
don't know as as somewhat amateurism.
Speaker 6: I mean, I know we were like children of life
the eighties and nineties rather than like growing up in
that period. But people our age were sort of all
born sort of around the time when we grow up
around people who grow up around in those times, if
that makes sense, And so it's of lived in the
hangover of those times, and like it's easy enough to
remember that kind of stuff being around or at least
hearing stories of it being the case. You know. Well,
it's like whole generation of guys who like grow For example,
I would like not to sound tripe, but there's a
whole generation of guys who grew up with Steven Sieguld
movies and karate Kid who wanted to be like the
next you know, sort of crop of guys who cut
their teeth on martial arts and to be like the
white kid who like, you know, beat the mask, the
kind of thing you know.
Speaker 11: Oh yeah, well like and it's funny too, because like
you pretty much the only uh, you know, the only
sport I really keep up with anymore is is fighting
and obviously, like you know, I enjoy you know, going
to the gym and training and all that, but there
is sort of a lack of mystery right in the
era of actually mixed martial arts, because then it's like, oh, well,
it turns out that like you know, the death touch
and you know kravma, God's just all bullshit, right, You
can't really like that to.
Speaker 6: Some degree, Aikida is kind of bullshit as well. You know, yeah,
a lot of stuff's been not so much debonnce, but
it's being proven much less less effective as as initially described.
Speaker 11: Or well, and it's kind of an interesting thing because
you've sort of seen the death of of single disciplines
right where it's like the you know, even something like kickboxing,
which is relatively speaking more restrained than fallowing mixed martial arts.
It's like, and.
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Speaker 13: He claims he brought the mullet back.
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Speaker 11: Well, that existed so that you know, Japanese caretecas could
fight muy Thai guys, and so they kind of put
this like hybrid rules together and it's like okay, well
now it's sort of become its own thing, you know.
And obviously, like as with any sort of sport or
martial art, there are artificial constraints, right, So like if
you're using big sixteen ounce gloves, you know, you can
do things that you can't in other sports. But still
it is like kind of a death like in a
weird way, a day of two traditions, you know, being
kind of molded together.
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, I totally appreciate what you're saying, and as
you sort of see that also with as someone who
when I was younger, I sort of dabbled a little bit.
On one hand, it was a little bit of taekwondo,
and then I eventually dabbled in karate before I moved
away from the city. But even then you sort of
get people who and I think we have seen it
with the rise of UFC and mixed martial arts. Is
the idea of you might have like a primary or secondary.
Like I said, you sort of you tend to hybridize
and mix things, but you know, there's there's no one
who's going to be a pure, say even to take
him like an aggressive form of like shokatan karate, right
or kyokish and karate which the more like offensive and
aggressive forms of it. They're not going to do purely
that and enter an mma ring. They're going to have
that and some kind of grappling they're going to do
like Greco Roman wrestling or Brazilian jiu jitsu, and morphed
the two things into one because in the end, karates
great for striking with your feet and potentially, like if
you develop more of a striking game, with you know,
fists and elbows and whatever. But once you're grappled, you're screwed.
I mean, you know, you're a mixed Marshal Lats fan,
you'll you'll know better than any of us in our circles.
Like the fate of Front of Rowsy. He was actually opposite.
She was a great grappler and once she sort of
got you your bugget, but then she went up against
Holy Home. It was a key boxer, and she absolutely
just smashed the crap out of her, you know, and
then and she was never the same fighter afterwards. And
it goes to show you that you can't be a
one dimensional fighter and make mixed martial lasts like it's
that's literally what it is by definition. It's not a
single disciple exercise, sorry, single discipline exercise.
Speaker 11: Well, and that's sort of the interesting thing, like you
see in and look like the jiu jitsu world is
very very gay for any number of reasons, which are
you know, not relevant here. I just want to say that,
but it's it's sort of the interest. Yes, look like Bibe,
I don't know why you're so freaked out about this.
I just go to a warehouse on the edge of
town and you know, and like you know, sometimes he's
got your head in the lock and you kiss him
on the lips and he freaks out and then you
can take his back. Yeah it's normal, right, uh no,
But in all seriousness, right, you have seen even within
that world, the death of pure jiu jitsu. Right, So,
the and it's a slightly changing like the big you know,
prestige titles now are all nogi, which means, you know,
you're not wearing your fancy pajamas, and that is birthed.
It's not even really jiu jitsu anymore. It is just grappling,
you know, it is it is wrestling, you know, sambo,
everything kind of put together and it's sort of becoming
its own thing. And part of that is like the Internet.
Part of it is, you know, culture becoming international, where
you're losing in some cases like the specific you know
national you know, martial arts are fighting disciplines and yeah,
sure you are.
Speaker 6: Peculiarities of techniques and methods specifics, yeah yeah.
Speaker 11: And so it's like I've kind of have two minds
about it because on one hand, it's like, if you're
going to learn how to fight, you should learn how
to fight, you know, regardless of the kind of specificities
of any art. But at the same time you do
sort of see it, uh a kind of flattening of culture.
There still there markets.
Speaker 6: Yes, in a sorry you know, you know I was
just mute. Oh yeah, absolutely, no, No, you're quite right.
I couldn't. I couldn't agree more, even like a in
a slightly less sense, because the majority of my time
in quote unquote martial artsize people was actually boxing. Like
I said, I dabbled in in the other two, but
like I boxed, and.
Speaker 11: I find the worst boxer in the world.
Speaker 6: I'm sure that's not true, but I appreciate what you're
getting at.
Speaker 11: I Well, Josh Neil, Josh Neil, who's is another an
on you'll see I guess he's not on this his
real name you'll see around these is very very patient
boxing with me, and every once in a while they'll
just like he'll just kind of look at me and
be like, dude, what are you doing? Like you do it,
but he's very very patient with me. But yeah, sorry,
back to you.
Speaker 6: No, no, no, I was just gonna say. But even then,
if you even watch like say old boxing matches, I
don't know if you're for me to like the history
of boxing, I find boxing history quite fascinating. Is in
the thirties, limp to World War Two, there's a German champion.
He took the title of the off Lewis not Schmeddling,
that's what was his surname, just gone blank anyway, actually covered.
Speaker 11: The Austrian fellow was a big fan of this guy.
Speaker 6: You know he wasn't he actually got he got a
free party membership after you won the title. He was
actually quite a because actually coincided just after the Olympics
as well, so sort of playing the whole like guber
mentioning like yeah, German is that we need boxing world champion?
All that sort of stuffing. Is the guy smelling I
was gonna say, Smeedddling, Yeah, shmelling match smelling. That's right.
They and he actually became a paratrooper, was a Faustian
biago during World War Two and actually landed on crete
and fought up until ninety forty five and one.
Speaker 11: Died by the way in two thousand and five.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, they made it move about him too. Actually, yeah,
he was quite long lived.
Speaker 11: Genuinely, I much like Ernest Younger in my mind. These
men died, you know, well before I was alive. It's
crazy to imagine you walked on the earth at the
same time.
Speaker 6: But yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no. And actually that being said,
I mean there's a whole whole litany of tangents I
could going through because, like reading about German paratroops actually
quite amazing because basically after Crete they were not used
on mass We'll get back to boxing a second. Sorry,
but just like for the sake of the point, they
were never using mass operations after the Creed because of
the horrendous losses that the two primary German divisions that
were used for the operation suffered. The painter the mustache
man said no more. They would use them for like
small operations for example, and they saved you know, I'll
do cha from the hilltop. And you know, they use
them for a couple of operations, you know, relieving its
circlements or you know, specific reinforcements or to land on
an island somebody, like, they did little things, but the
mass drops after Creek forty one ended, after which case
it was then the Allies, you know, particularly you know
the Americans of the British, you know, landing in Normandy
and Market Garden, and those sort of big operations occurred,
you know, in the late latter half of the war,
in the last two years of the wars specifically, but
either which way, when the German fauscion Maga were grounded,
they were used specifically in two roles. Either very very
tenacious defense which you saw at Montegueesino on the Italian Front.
They because they were just they were extremely well much
akin to British or American paratroopers, highly elite, highly physically adept,
very good marksmen and just tough right, so they were
using in very sort of high stakes defensive warfare. Or
they'll use a sort of shock troops for instance. So
if you actually read the memoirs of I mean, you know,
we've all watched Better Brothers rather, but if actually like
the real loved the memoirs of Dick Winters and other
small unit commanders who fought in Norman Dean in France
to be to quote a British Histhorian, I love the
way he says this. He goes in life, two things
are certain death and taxes. But if you're a military
a modern military story in three things are constant death,
taxes and German counter attack and the instances where like
German paratroopers would you know, launch like a probing attack
and then the British and Americans think, oh, well, it's
one am, We're going to go to bed now, and
then like at three am the Germans of attack again,
and then that attack again at six in the morning,
like they were so tenacious and just it was a
part of their method of war. And that's the kind
of unit that Max Schmeunting fourteen is the point I'm making.
And you sort of hear of anecdotes of like that.
You know that the Americans would be sort of around
like on the wrong side of the Ryan River in
nineteen forty five, but they'd be like shaking hands with
the Soviets of the Odor, and they'd be pockets of
German paratroopers who've been disconnected from their forces for like
two three four months, and the Americans like, how are
you sedill live? It's like, h we've been We've been
fighting out numbered for five years. Like we're used to this,
you know, we always surrounded, you know. And it goes
to show you that the testament of like certain types
of soldiers, I mean and and you know, even the
Americans proved that, like one hundred first Boys when out
bastone the same kind of toughness. And I suppose men
like that are predisposed to making good martial artists. Is
probably a point worth referencing.
Speaker 11: And what's interesting about Schmelling is that he was he
was a man of personal magnanimity as well. He was
a stupid businessman. You know, he was wounded in the war,
dismissed from service. Uh, and then you know afterwards, you know,
returned to being a farmer, but ended up being a
fairly successful hend like a battling plant for Coca Cola
and a few other things. Yeah, but you know, he
was sort of infamous for his first win and then
loss over it. He uh, the African American fighter Joe Lewis,
and that's exactly right, yeah, which is a huge upset.
And it was this sort of great moment where you know,
Lewis had was this huge puncture and you know, Smelling
is basically just standing there taking it, hammering him with rights,
you know, just wet weathering the fire. But he won
one and lost when I believe I think they only
had two, but later they you know, mended ties and
Schmelling ended up paying for Louis's funeral like he held
onto his.
Speaker 6: Money lost destitute.
Speaker 11: Actually yeah, yeah, And I mean, you know, say what
you will for magnanimity, right, the ability to you know
one obviously, you know, sort of temper yourself around wealth,
but also you know, sort of going out of your
way to uh, you know, honor a fallen foe.
Speaker 6: I guess, well also to I think, I think one
of the tragedies and those of us who've seen our circles,
I think, because I try to think of how to
phrase this, right, I think in the midst of quote
unquote combat, But by that I mean sort of like
you know that the culture war and politics and so
of Like you said, you know, the kind of people
who just it's there, it's all that they do for them.
Politics is sort of and culture is everything, and there's
not much for a world outside of that. Was I
think guys like you and I and many of our friends,
we have the lives outside of this and preoccupations and
you know, passions, hobbies, the kind of things that actually
make life more colorful, I don't want to say more interesting,
but certainly more colorful. Right and make people themselves more
interesting as well, because I think having either aptitude or
mastery of specific realms and domains of life expand one's horizons.
I don't mean that in a like a liberal trit sense.
I mean that in a very real way. And I
think one thing that people, perhaps a lot of people
like us, but people sort of, you might say, in
our proximity or in our wider umbrella, to whom politics
and culture dominates so much of their preoccupation and their
thinking and whatever, is that there is something there are
principles deeply embedded. I think specifically, well, I mean not
solely in the European mind. I think other civilizations have
achieved this. I think you see it definitely much in
Japanese culture. I think to some degree you see it
in elements of Middle Eastern culture. You know, to a point,
I think it's it also exists if you consider Slavic sort.
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Speaker 6: Christmas Europe Slasher peen adjacent. You also see it in
Theirs in their own way. But it's this concept of
sort of what the Rhans are called dignitask, but as
an extension of that honor and the idea of even
in the context of hostility or in the context of battle,
or in the context of you know, like you're sort
of being in a bellicose environment that you can you
know that the Germans and the English can still play
football on Christmas Day in nineteen fourteen, right and you
know you see it, you know, like in the Grand
medieval chivalric culture of Europe throughout the Middle Ages, and
not to sort of say that that they're the same thing.
I'm reminded of a maybe one day we should like
to do a watch along of it, because I absolutely
love it. But the I think is either the third
or fourth highest scoring German acid World War two gunto Raal,
who end up becoming a native air general, by the way,
and his dismissal is interesting, so read that up a Wikipedia.
But anyway, he was I think, like I said, I
think he's like the third or fourth highest scoring ACE
in Germany who had like two hundred and seventy or
eighty kills or something, right, and he was. He fought
for a great deal of the war in active duty
and survived the war obviously and suffered like he crashed
very few aircrafts, had very few like problems, was you know,
really sick whatever. He only got badly wounded once, and
that's when he came into contact with you know, when
eventually the Americans put the Mustangs into the end, they
could they could take the bombers all the way to
Burlian and back right fully escorted. And that's what the
peak I mean the P fifty one Mustang was a
great aircraft in the certain right. But the biggest boon
for the Allies is they could take the bombers all
the way to their darkets and back right. And there
was an American pilo by name of Shorty Rankin who
was a friend of Chuck Jaeger's. If I'm memory saisn't correct.
And the Germans, you know, for all of the aptitude
that the Germans, once they got to sort of a
point of like aptitude and decoration, got a bit arrogant.
I mean, that's just the thing, right, And you know
Guntral in his in his you know, he's uh his
air wing, you know, takes of the skies and yeah, yeah,
you know they're gone to hammers. The Americans, you know,
they're gonna put boys's of bombers. We've got the shots
of a Germany.
Speaker 12: You know.
Speaker 6: That was kind of the attitude of the ace pilots
of the of the Lufffer And so I think I
think it was the first or second time they came
into contact with PEA fifty ones and Raoul was engaging
another fighter and Rankin got higher than him in his
P fifty one throttled up and just straighted the side
of his aircraft and shot his thumb clean off through
the cockpit. And you got to think the P fifty
ones had a combination of I think mostly thirty cal
machine guns. So like, imagine being shot through your cockpit
and then like your thumb's blown off. I mean it
could hit any part of your body, your shoulder, your chest,
your head, like you would kill you. But Rahul was
shot through the thumb. And a lot of these old timers,
just like I'm talking long after the war, would go
to each other's air shows, like you know, the American
and British boys go to Germany that see all the
German aircraft go up, and then the Germans go to
England America that have dinner together, talk crap, you know,
drink beers, and you know, it actually became often quite
friendly after the war. And there's this wonderful interview with
guntarrah where he's like, oh yeah, I was like he's
even I was like, oh, I haven't gotten me yet.
Speaker 17: And then Shorty come up and shots my son off,
you know, and he's sitting there like on this deck
chair with Marty Rank. Shorty Rank connext me, like pointing
and laughing at his thumb. And it's like the kind
of levity that these blokes had with one another is
something we would not understand in the modern day, you know,
And like that's I know, I'm using a specific anecdote,
but the fact that these guys could come together after
the war and go we all went through this ghastly thing.
Speaker 6: We fought it for whatever reasons, et cetera. But we
all know the horrors of war, and ultimately we're soldiers,
you know, and we are going to treat each other
with a degree of dignity. Now that obviously didn't apply
across the world with everybody in all parties. That's not
what I'm saying, But there is this very very innate,
deep rooted notion within us, and I think what I'm
trying to what I'm trying to cleave to it, and
I think you raise that point with smelling pain for
Lewis's funeral, is that I think we need a treasure
that as a part of our if I can use
the phrase like civilizational psychology, you know, I think if
you take that away from us, we become much less
people without it.
Speaker 11: Well one hundred percent. And this is even a distinction
that the Romans made, is that there was a difference
between an intramural fight, you know, between people who are
part of the same civilization and a sort of like
what another man might call like a Rossied and Creek,
like a war of extermination, you know, one party versus
the other, and really like.
Speaker 6: That is ultimately the difference between fighting Gaul and Macedon,
for instance.
Speaker 11: Yes, and there is a huge tragedy and this happened,
you know, in the American Civil War, but also in
both World wars. That we took that attitude and applied
it to our own, that we applied it to Germany,
that we applied it to the American South, And I
mean in the American context. You see this in the
difference even and look like you know Sherman's you know,
outing in Hell and all that. But even then there's
a difference between the most brutal parts of you know,
the pacification of the American South and then the Indian Wars,
which were this sort of you know, war of mutual
annihilation where you know, both parties are you know, massacring
each other, no quarter is expected or given. And then
there you know, the case of the you know, the Indians,
if you were captured, you would be tortured to death,
right roasted alive or cannibalized at best. Yeah, and yeah,
that is very much a different thing. I got into
sort of it.
Speaker 6: As constern these men found out. So they're great displeasure
in wounded name.
Speaker 11: Yes, yeah, although there is something u in a man
that sees a last stand and you're like, hell, yeah,
is that for me?
Speaker 6: You know, But then there's a lot of there's last
stands and last stands like I mean, I'm not not
here to dictate to your own history, like I want
to make that point clear, but you know, there's it
looks something like the album and that's like very very heroic,
whereas you can tell Wounded knees a bit of a
cock up and yeah, you know, and particularly once the
last stragglers break, like you know, the Indians with their
leave action repeat rifles, which just it was a turkey shoot,
you know what I mean by the end, and that's
not impugne the honor of those men. Like ultimately, when
the battle line breaks and the battles lost, then men
are fleeing. I mean, I mean it gets stabbed in
you front gets abbed to your back. Ultimately, there's not
much of a difference. You know, very few, very few
fighting units have a glorious end, like the Spartans of
Thermopoli for instance, Like you know, that doesn't happen very
often as an example.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean the the Alamo is a great example
of that. Right, there are so many great and this
is something that I this is you know, I'm not
going to say that we'll get off a topic, but
to return to the conversation about fighter you know, the
air duels, which again we're thirty minutes and in not
discussed at all we were supposed to do, which is
why I think I have.
Speaker 6: You anyway, keep going.
Speaker 11: But but my wife and I were sort of joking
back and forth because you know, we were talking about
the Smithsonian, right, which is this collection of museums in DC,
and she was complaining, She's like, oh, like I always
hated going to the Air and Space Museum, Like that's
so boring. I don't want to see a plane. I'd
either see, you know, in our museum. And I enjoyed
our museum as much the same. But we we started
kind of joking back and forth arguing about this, and
in my mind, the the end of the analog era
of fighter jets is the coolest air combat has ever been.
Where it is you know, you and another man jousting
in the sky in a you know, sixty pound death
machine with you know, machine guns strapped to every to
every available you know, superchargers, yeah, exactly, power by a
radial engine that's bigger than your living room, you know,
sixteen hundred horsepower just screening through.
Speaker 6: This injection all that sort of stuff, you know.
Speaker 11: Yeah, And it is that like completely unassisted, you know,
fully analog. You know, there's no computer. It is just
you versus him. There's just something incredibly like cool and
romantic about that. And I mean this is the same
thing that you see in you know, something like Star Wars,
which is obviously you know, World War two in space, right,
But it's that same motif of the you know, jousting
and jousting in space, right, the kind of like man
versus man. And I think it's interesting that.
Speaker 6: And it's no sometimes both ways because you haven't like it.
But the starships, you know, like with like the X
Wings and tie fighters and stuff. But then you also
have in the Grand light. The jedis it's like the
same concept. One's air, one's ground, you know, that's it.
Speaker 11: Yeah, And I mean I think it's it's no shock that,
you know, the air service has always been more aristocratic.
So for instance, you know you have in in the
First World War the the sort of like the flower
of the American upper class who you know had sort
of right, but I mean even at a place like
Yale right where they had a flying club which was
you know, rich young men with planes doing something at
the time incredibly dangerous, and all of them bought planes,
went to France and died. I mean not all of them,
but the vast majority of them did. Let me look
at at uh, Roosevelt's son, right, who is who is
killed in a in a plane? Someone macab Detailed Teddy
or Franklin ted Teddy. Yes, the good one. It's not
the not the the Satanic cripple. By the way, Marcus, Uh,
this is this is crazy. I don't know how I
didn't know this as a long term FDR hater. Do
you know that the whole reason we have the Ford
Foundation right this just like International Project for Evil, was
basically because FDR made inheritances illegal and instituted a seventy
percent inheritance tax.
Speaker 6: Able to absconde Henry Ford essentially.
Speaker 11: Well exactly, and his son, you know, started this, started
this foundation in good faith and you know, assumed that
it would be done for the benefit of America. So
he did, you know, vast public works in Michigan where
his father's workers lived. But by the time he died
relatively young, or he died young, and then his son
ended up taking it over. His son ended up resigning
because effectively communists had taken over his own father's not company,
the foundation.
Speaker 6: Of the work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 18: Yeah, and it's again FDR is if nothing else, at
least he won the ones. But anyway, fair enough, that's
such a great story. That's such a great story.
Speaker 6: As as you know, as a bonafie to Italian by
the way, you know, like I do admire the story
of the Ford GT forty and also acknowledge if I
inherit like just ten million dollars like that, by the way,
And I'm just saying this as a pure admire of
sports cars, I would buy a Ford G T forty
before I bought any Ferrari. Just saying I have soation.
Speaker 11: Oh yeah, but honestly I love the sixties and seventies
Lamar sports cars, like I stand by the nine to
seventeen long Tail being one of the coolest machines ever.
The sound of that giant flat twelve and that I
mean Lamar the movie isn't incredible.
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Speaker 11: But the footage of it is great.
Speaker 6: When you say the ones movie mean the see Steve
McQueen one from the seventies. Yes, yes, I love that movie.
I love that movie has actually.
Speaker 11: Funny out really a movie, you know.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's David Quin having fun like basically yeah, yeah.
Speaker 11: Which I'm gonna be honest, I respect even more.
Speaker 6: Right exactly, it's slight, you know what, like I've done
maybe for since seven I've done the greatest gape I've
done bullet you know what, I want to like a
racing because Joel Garna did it like a fewyears early
with Grand Prix, which was in the sixties. Right, He's like,
I'm gonna do this but better, Like these cars are
faster than grown breakers. I wanted to Lamons, you know yeah,
And you'll never see a better mullets in a movie
than Lamon's. Like that is Mullets Central. They really got
the timeline perfect with like the fashion and everything like
turtlenecks and mullets and all like the Italian and German
drivers are like big sunglass and everything. It's like, wow,
this is still time period. I I a period appropriate.
Speaker 11: I'm somewhat of a turtle neck officionado. And it's for
two reasons. One, uh, let's be honest, it's mostly you
know that helps, uh, but also it is the look
of seventies racing drivers. You know, it's just such a
cool look. I mean even uh and you know he
started a number of movies with great coats, but even
uh uh oh, this is embarrassing. First James Bond Scottish
fellow con Sean Connery. Sorry, for some reason I couldn't
stop saying Matthew McConaughey, which is not his name, but
he did it as well, right that that sort of
like very period look. Yeah, absolutely, actually interesting detail there. Uh,
while we're talking about the you know, the kind of
like massification. Uh, Sean Connery was a bodybuilder of the era,
but it was when the sport was in a very
very different, very different form.
Speaker 6: I mean he also was in a different category, like
he never competed against like Vince Darner and those sort
of guys, but like in his category of like the
lighter I mean you look at photos of him, Yeah,
they're not particularly you know, bulky, and I have a
lot of masks, but like, the dude was strong, was lean,
and was you know, well built. Like from an antatomical perspective.
Speaker 11: I'm not mistaken. I think Steven Sigall actually broke his
are practicing akito for a movie?
Speaker 6: Really? Okay, I was unfamiliar with that. That's actually kind
of fun.
Speaker 11: It was either him or maybe it was Roger Moore,
I can't remember. It was one of the early Games Bonds. Uh, which,
by the way, actually what we're talking about this? What
are you a Games Bond fan? Oh?
Speaker 6: Yes, it's actually kind of funny. It's a bit of
like deep low I suppose for our circles is that
you know how AA went through that phase of doing
the who would you do? Thing for like a year
and a half whatever was Yeah, that actually has a genesis,
and it actually the genesis is me and Charlie having
a conversation, like a Twitter conversation about which Bond girls
are hot and which Bond girls are cute? And somehow
that discussion ended up turning into who would you do?
Because like Charlie, I had this light list of like
hot bond girls and cut bond girls like ones you
shag and ones you take them, and as yeah, that's
actually how it started. Very few people know that actually,
but yeah, it's interesting how that developed. There's like obviously
me and Charlie so so we're both on the Officionados.
Speaker 11: But my wife has developed a spectrum for female attractiveness,
which I actually think is kind of fun to talk about.
It is not this is for people who are attractive
right already, but it's a distinction and it is she
calls it. It's ripe versus dead, and it's basically the
difference between the like do you look better smiling or serious?
So like you can imagine like the happy it is,
you know what I'm saying though, right, because it's like
even you can think of like you know, there is.
Speaker 6: At least Hourly versus Bonnie Blue, you know.
Speaker 11: Yeah. Or it's like but again, like you could once
you think about it, like, oh, this actually does describe
something different, like you know, this is maybe dating myself,
but you could think of someone like the kind of
like look of the mid two thousand, someone like you know,
I don't know, Kristen Stewart or something like that who
is much more like dead looking, like still an attractive woman,
but like kind of gaunt and more serious looking, versus
the kind.
Speaker 6: Of like kind of a millennial thing though to be
on as well, you know.
Speaker 11: True, but I mean like this this you can see
this even in different errors, right obviously, like the heroin
chic of the nineties is like a biased one way, you.
Speaker 6: Know, but like the Kate, like the Kate Moss looks
sort of thing. Yeah, m anyway, I have my mad
on to uh to discuss such things. Well, you know,
you gotta gotta sometimes you have to ask in that
for an opinion. But that's that's because I think also
these are sort of like there are dichotomies that it
comes attracted. It's like you know, like even like amongst men,
that's sort of like you know, and I'm going to
say this is like you know, farm boy myself, like
this all like that that grauff sort of like farmer,
sort of lumberjack, unrefined kind of masculine thing that women
find attractive. But then like other women will find like
the refined, muscular, you know, clean shaven, kind of well edged,
you know, corporate type. We'll find that atue and then
they're obviously find like the blue collar kind of less
refined urban man more attractive, you know, and a different
like kind of personalities. You know. They're like a man
who's like extroverted and outgoing, and you know another one
who's like more serious and calculated, and you know, is
a founder and a builder kind of you know, and
another's good with his hands and can build things and
she like that. Like, it's funny how even from the
female perspective, they find different kinds of men vastly attractive
in varying ways, you know.
Speaker 11: And this is why, like gender discourse is just pure
slop of all.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, and I mean we are merely speculating, by
the way. This isn't like we are speculating on the
slop f y, you know.
Speaker 11: But the this is the funny thing of the you know,
elon revealing the location of certain accounts, right, is how
much of that kind of like you know, male you know,
pick up artist you know kind of descent like derived thought,
which is the like, you know, the very much like
like sort of like and Rewtate adjacent idea on how
to be successful with a woman is from the third world, right,
it's just like pure engagement bait from.
Speaker 6: I mean put this right, the imagine someone like your
I saying or like any of our like esteem friends thing,
you know, like you have to be a high value man.
You have to refine yourself. You have to improve your knowledge,
you have to improve your like you know, like your status,
and you have to have you know, income and stability
and all these things. And it's like and then e
Versu's like you have to be a high value man.
You have to improve your product productivity.
Speaker 14: You know.
Speaker 17: It's like you can't take that seriously if they were
actually expose what they were, and it's like, could you
imagine you'll have to.
Speaker 11: It's one of those things too, which like I think
the thing that makes it so insidious is that like
there is there's a core of truth to it, like
if you if you dig down, like there are insights
that are correct. But it is the same like desire
that we were talking about with sports earlier to like
systematize and standardize and like find metrics for it, where
it's just like turning it into like KPIs like you're
in a job or something, which idea to like turn
everything into like a technique, and it's like, look, man,
that's that's just not how it works. And the fact
that this is the way you were going about it,
to quote Thomas, you're not gonna.
Speaker 6: Make it, you know, correct, Yes, And there's a great
deal of people who aren't going to make it for
the vast myriad of reasons lying and this is one
of many. Sadly, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 11: Enough about that. I think I think that genuinely gender
discourse is the end of all intelligent human thought. Uh,
it's always it's it's kind of interesting to me the
degree to which there's sort of a like like kind
of masturbatory nature to you know, both sides of gender discourse,
you know, which is either like, oh, you know, women
are horrible. You know they need to be you know,
they need to like admit it and apologize, or alternately,
like men are horrible and you see this like the
like the whatever podcast, right that guy who just breaks skills.
Speaker 6: Which optimate is kind of actually funny, but yeah, it
gets it gets old eventually.
Speaker 11: You know, it's funny, but it's also you're like I
sort of look at it up, like this is for
this to be so popular for so long, this is
deeply like this is not a good place to be, right, yeah,
which is it?
Speaker 6: Does you know?
Speaker 11: But it is true confirmation bias where it is like
you are deliberately engaging with the worst behavior of the
opposite sex constantly, which like look like modern men and
women are deeply broken. Like we both understand this on
a myriad of levels. It's not the point I'm trying
to make, but like basically just watching like like doom
porn forever, you know, like it is and you see
this on like the more, you're just on that point.
I was gonna say, this is exactly why if I
had the powers of elam mask, I would perma bent
RFH before the iotola for that exact reason. Yes, exactly,
And there's a version of it on substack as well.
A woman like cartoons hate her, I think, is what
she calls herself. But it's the same gimmick, you know,
it's just reversed. But instead of finding you know, like
you know some you know, uh fatherless woman with an
only fans, it's like, you know, the most just degenerate
you know online and on commentator, right, and it's just like,
look like, yeah, that person is bad. You shouldn't do
what that person is doing. But like you're you're sort
of poisoning yourself by interacting with this at all moments
you know you were you were sort of turning that
person into a stand in for fifty percent of the population.
And look, man, like you and I are both equally
aware of certain uncomfortable realities about you know, how the
sex is interact. Right, I'm not trying to come out
as some like you know weight nt you know, LiOD toad,
but this stuff is poisoning your brain.
Speaker 6: Like, there's also part of it, well we can, we
can see the world for what it is. But also
it's a bit like and I'm sure you've you might
have perhaps you have have them, but you know, I
do stress this every somethen that it comes up. Is
that it is perfectly understandable to have the rage that
we do against say boomers, for instance, all the silent generation.
We keep in mind that they were the very first
then primary victims of the first multivectored like unrelinking pulverization
of the senses and of indoctrination and.
Speaker 11: Cognizant controlled media.
Speaker 6: Exactly, and in a sense, the women of our generation
are kind of like the equivalents of that in their
own way. And I mean one shouldn't. I mean with
a victim, right, you can't in the you gotta you
can't keep given the hero an addict terroin right like
you can't keep you know, you know, there comes a
point where the four hundred pound friend has to stop
being handed mars bars right, you know, like you're harming
them at a point. But you still have to realize
and accept that somewhere along the way they have been victimized,
and they have been dragged down by external forces that
aren't their own. And I think it would be we
would be well served to keep that in mind. It's
not to say that it should make us white night
so that we should be permissive about things, as we shouldn't.
We should actually object to things that are objectively bad
and objectively evil and things which adeleterious socio coach culturally
right like unapologetically so. But there should still be that.
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Speaker 10: While all the who's of jovial what at McDonald's eating
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Speaker 6: That slid of compassion that runs through us, where we
actually see these people for what they are and how
they've come to this point of their journey, and it
isn't in many cases? How cong up with this? For
every I mean, I just use her because I said
it before, For every bonny blue who knows what the
hell they're doing and doesn't give a shit about how
many trees they burn down in the process. Right, there
are probably hundreds and thousands, and likely tens of thousands
of women who have made a choice out of desperation
or of being brought into an unfortunate situation somewhat or
entirely not of their making, and then have to live
with like the crumbling ruins of their life afterwards. Again
not to say that you should encourage that, or white
night that, or facilitate that. But you know, as people
of high culture and of how can I put this,
you know, like of a well tempered morality, we should
be mindful of that. And I think if we debase
ourselves of that, we become less. We sort of so
like we commit to the opposite of transcendence, if you
get what I mean, We reduce ourselves spiritually. And I
think we should maintain high standards of behavior morality, right,
and we should expect high things of ourselves and of others.
But keep in mind that there are a multitude of
victims of you know, of the powers to be of
the overarching socio cultural environment of our societies of modern history.
And that's just a fact. And it's very callous and
mean spirited to not consider that. And as much as
I appreciate guys our age, some older, some younger have
run out of patients, they ultimately comes a point. De
Mesihan returns with beating a dead horse. And then also
if the if the world around you was burning, maybe
kicking over those cans of kerosene is not the best idea,
like you know, in the end, try not try not
immolate yourself in the process, if you get my meaning well.
Speaker 11: And there's additionally, like we are all children in civilizational winter.
None of us are getting out of this unskethed.
Speaker 6: And and many of us have battle scars, evenly for
well formed people, you.
Speaker 11: Know, one hundred percent. It's like modernity is poisonous on
your physical as well as a spiritual level. And so
I think that there is a good deal of wisdom
to you know, the line from Scripture right, you know,
about you know, pointing out the you know, the speck
in your brother's eye when there's a plank in yours.
And obviously that is tactically abused to say you can
never call out something that's obviously bad or.
Speaker 6: You don't need to judge, you know, exactly.
Speaker 11: And that's not a serious that's not a serious counter argument,
which doesn't really need to be addressed. But I think
that it's important to remember that, like, look like there
are almost none of us who've gotten out of this
completely unscathed. And like if you were waiting for like
a final victory in the war between the sexes, you know,
like a total war if you will, like one and
not ideological end zeke, if I might use the phrase
yeah exactly, it's like yeah, one that that is not
going to happen, and two like what do you do
in the meantime? Like, well, you were waiting for that
to come, because at a certain point, it's like you
have a finite lifespan and you know, if you're simply
waiting for conditions to improve forever, even if those conditions
are unfair as they are currently right on many different metrics,
you're not really helping yourself. And oftentimes I think this
is a big, a big point of contention between you know,
older and younger men because you know, the boomer answer
is like, oh, you know, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, like,
you know, why are you sitting around complaining about it?
And there's several things there, which is one I think
that not all, but many in that generation struggle to
see how the advantages that they were availed are no
longer possible. So I think there's a certain degree of
being out of touch. But the problem is on an
individual level, like you and I talking Marcus, that is
actually the correct answer given certain constraints, but it's hard
to say that if you were at the same time
basically morally hectoring, you know, young guys. There was a
piece in Uh, there's a piece and I it wasn't
The American Conservative. Let me see if I haven't pulled
up on my phone somewhere. Uh ah shit, I can't remember.
Speaker 12: Uh.
Speaker 11: It was either The American Conservative or Chronicles or one
of those kind of you know, legacy mags talking about
you know, why Generation ZS is so radical and it's
sort of a few people.
Speaker 6: I was gonna say, a few people approximate to us.
I've touched on this, like actually recently I saw that
Carl throw up a video like three or four days ago,
basically like trying to boom a whisper to people why
someone like Fuentez is popular as an example, And I
think that's an important question, because like, we get it right,
and our friends get it, but this is multitude of
people who have been in the miasma for so long,
who can't swell their armpit from their backside, who go, oh, well,
how the how well has this happened? It's like, well,
you know, I had your wits about you, and your
senses were clear you would know, but clearly you don't.
And it's funny you touch on it because I think
it's a very pertinent political question of the moment.
Speaker 11: Well, and the article is interesting, and I realized mentioning
an article that I can't remember the name of or
who wrote it is poor form.
Speaker 10: Uh.
Speaker 11: But the first half of it, the diagnosis talking about
the you know, the sort of moral lecturing, kind of
hen pecking from the political left, is completely.
Speaker 6: And totally the finger wagging types, you know.
Speaker 11: But then without skipping a beat, it flops and it's like,
and that's why these young men need to, you know,
pull themselves up by these bootstraff They need to stop
complaining so much. And I'm like, yeah, you're still close.
You got half of it, but doing the other side
of it right, doing the exact same thing, And it
looked like the youth support for the Republican Party is
completely collapsed in America. Yeah, for any number of reasons.
Right at basins to Israel is certainly one of it,
and if just being seen as intefectual or weak is
perhaps in the worst. But another part of it is
in this language about downward social mobility, the fact that
basically everyone in this country, regardless of partifiliation, is poorer
than their parents and grandparents. They're doing worse. And when
the answer is that's just a Democrat hoax, as the
President said, or you're just lazy, you're just stupid, Stop
buying cell phone, stop buying you know, avocado toast. That's
not particularly great messaging. And look like you know this
as well as I do, Marcus. There are few things
which lead to a destabilized society more than large numbers
of young men with no prospects.
Speaker 6: No prospects, nothing to lose, and continual provocation. Yeah, it's
a recipe for disaster. And I mean, to be honest
with you, I mean, as much as we don't like
the crippled monster, right. But FDR was quite pertinent in saying,
although I think how we got there was through a
particular liberal prism of his own right. But he's what
he said that like cold, hungry, angry men of the stuff,
revolutions are made of something to that effect, and is right.
But the thing is is that liberalism has done this
to us in our homelands on purpose, and then vilifies
us for objecting to this fate. And that is the
thing which if our elders who have facilitated this, either
unwittingly or willfully, if they can do one thing or
be made to understand one thing, it's actually that.
Speaker 12: Well.
Speaker 11: And obviously the look, you have to separate what FDR
did to America in making an empire and what he
did as a politician. He's a very very good politician.
I mean, there's a reason that he was elected four times,
and it's because, yeah, he was seen to he understood patriotage.
He understood that the expectation is you will do or
seem to be doing right. Obviously, you know, all the
arguments about how FDR's interventions made the depression wor worse
are largely true, but.
Speaker 6: It didn't matter.
Speaker 11: He was a guide doing something.
Speaker 6: And I think the exception of a being effective, which
is why that I mean, they're not called they're not
called Roosevelt Vills. They'll called Hooverville's for that reason.
Speaker 11: Yeah, And I mean I think it's interesting to look at,
you know, the the kind of comparison to you know,
what Trump is facing with his collapsing support, like he's
down to i think fifty five percent strong support among
his own base. Basically people saying he's doing a good job,
which is apocalyptically bad for any president. Nonetheless, Trump, who
is incredibly popular historically in his bass but.
Speaker 6: Also just on that sorry not to interrupt you, but
just free quickly on that note a considering that in
the first term, for as much as he struggled with
fringe elements of his support base, his core base remained
resolutely loyal through everything from twenty fifteen up until reelection,
right firstly, and then secondly, think he won this last
election just gone on such a mandate on those two
bases alone, those figures are even more dire.
Speaker 11: Oh yeah, and you can trast that and it's total horrible.
I genuinely think a big part of it is being
like singing as weak or ineffectual. So you know, for instance,
rate the response from Gavin Newsom to something Trump was
complaining about, which look, I don't like Gavin Newsom and
I don't think he said this, but a Twitter account
with his name on it dead, which basically said like, well,
why are you complaining. You're the president of America, which
is a valid point, right, you are the man in charge,
and you know, I think a lot about the the
you know Louisiana politician uh Hue Long who was assassinated
under shall we say, suspicious circumstances the moment he became
a rival to uh to fdr. Right, what are the chances,
right that the guy who assassinated him was shot so
many times that his body was unidentifiable? That's weird.
Speaker 6: And that being said, the Fisher king did walk around
the permanent body guide if the correct Yes, and.
Speaker 11: It seems as if he made the mistake of of
many populist leaders and may have been done in by
his own bodyguards.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 11: But that's a long running conspiracy theory that I completely
and totally believe. But again, right, he was propelled to
power because he was seen as effectively answering these sort
of long ignored questions. Right, that he was a rejection of,
you know, a previous order who was offering nothing to
be and you know he went about the same sort
of patriots.
Speaker 10: Right.
Speaker 11: He built a hospital that you know, admittedly now is abandoned,
but you know bore his name. You know, he made
his name, you know, building schools and projects and things
like that. And so the reason I bring that up
is that, like it really at a certain point being
seen as able to do something right, even if you're
not someone who directly ever goes to that hospital, but
it's something that you you did for me. You know,
this sort of like magnanimity, that there is someone who
is even in you know, an indirect way in life.
Speaker 6: You've around twenty nine thousand days, and those days can
be full of.
Speaker 11: What ifs, like what if it doesn't work?
Speaker 6: But what if it does?
Speaker 11: What if you really went after it?
Speaker 6: Because life is measured in those moments, So go after everyone.
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Speaker 11: Interested in me right is very basic politics, but nonetheless
something that like you you need to have that because
simply saying and this applies to the you know, the
conversation about women as well. Your your concerns are completely
illegitimate and don't matter, Like, that's not a strategy that works.
Speaker 6: And more, obviously, this is the country you're born in,
your citizens, this country of ansis is buried in this
country and the institutions which makes this country what it is.
We are going to turn against you because you were dissenting.
That is actually the most abhorrent aspect of it, oh.
Speaker 11: One hundred percent. And the reason I think this is
relevant to the to the conversation with women is that, like,
and this is the point that Dave Green has made
a number of times, just like, you need to offer
women as a class something and it doesn't have to
be what they say they want. It doesn't have to
be you know, fifty percent representation in every you know,
elected body in the world, or you know, the abolition
of the gender pay gap or whatever. But you do
need to offer them something. You need to offer them
a way out of this because effectively, modernity has made
everyone miserable. And you see this in the data on
you know, men and women both that you know, people
are not pair bonding, they're not you know, forming relationships.
They're deeply, deeply unhappy. And the way to win in
a situation like that is not to you know, achieve
like sexual end seek right, is not to have this
sort of you know, Roman peace where you salt the earth.
It's like, well, there needs to be a sort of yeah,
and and look like this is why generally speaking, I'm
actually quite white built, because you know, we understand the
relative push and pull of politics on men and women,
right where generally women tend to follow men politically, and
obviously if they are simply not interacting with men at
all in any serious capacity, that's a problem. But I
think that generally speaking, like there things are not I
see a sort of possibility in this sort of like
you know, young I guess kind of you know, dissident movement.
And it's not just our literal friends, Marcus, but you know,
I've been kind of encouraged by seeing this sort of
resistance in in your country, right. You know, a lot
of you know, young guys predominantly you know, basically fighting
hard against the same you know, forces that are kind
of you.
Speaker 6: Know, flicking Australian shit poster, you know, yeah, yeah, exactly. No,
You're quite right. You're quite right. There is there is
a reason from them is. And I think you're right also.
I mean, I've to admit, as a result of some experiences,
my opinion has slightly hardened on the woman question. But
I will always maintain the position I've always had in that.
You know, I think the idea that we are just
going to jettison women and somehow win our civilization back
is fanciful. I think we do need to offer women something,
and I think also we should. The women who are
sincerely on the same page and are with us should
be cherished and protected. And I think you are right
in saying that within our broader realm there ought to
be a feminine domain that is protected by us men.
Not that we white night for them, not that we
enable them and their excesses, or that we engage in
eternal apologia for the should I say, less beneficial specs
of femininity and of of the female nature, but that
if there is to be some kind of either rejuvenation
into the future or some kind of return that reorients,
reorientent reorients us towards a better future going forward.
Speaker 12: Is that.
Speaker 6: I mean, civilizations are not sausage fests. You know, we
need each other and when things are well, men and
women should want each other. And I think trying to
go down this sort of and I'm not saying it's
a throw shade on them specifically, but like to go
down to like this sort of like Tait in cell Root.
It's put this way, I would call it a quick
path to an alleviation that deprives us, deprives us of
a long term victory. We need to keep that in mind.
Speaker 11: Yeah, one hundred percent. And I think this is almost impressive, Marcus,
because we've violated both promises we made, which is first
not to send gender slap discourse and also we have
now five minutes over not talked about the DuPont's at all.
This is almost and I want you know, I think
it must be. It must be something about you Italians,
because Geo and I did the exact same thing. We
were supposed to review a movie.
Speaker 6: We're talking to we're talking to people, you know. Yeah,
I mean this way. This is why, this is why
cis Rose Cataline Orations are several books long. I mean
us Italian and even like I have to conclude the
Greeks in this right, And I don't know if you've
heard this, but I've described myself in this way before,
is it. We have many qualities, brevity is not one
of them.
Speaker 11: Well, it's actually funny. I almost always brought this up.
But the whole conversation we we're talking about, you know,
attraction and all that. All all I can think of
is is Avid, right, who very much is in the
same tradition, you know, just speaking at great length. Uh, yes,
the Uh, it's actually funny.
Speaker 8: I have.
Speaker 11: I don't have a lot of experience with the Roman poets,
but I actually enjoyed Ovid quite a bit, uh, you
know when I got my fragmentary classics degree. But uh,
Tullus is just filthy, like just disgusting. And uh you
have a by the way, like I said, those are
the two of them, and then Virgil are what I
have the most experienced with as far as poetry. I like,
I preferred Avid by far. Uh Virgil I enjoy reading,
but his it's just such a bare to translate. Yeah,
Virgil is just a nightmare to try and read in
the original language because it'll be like a full page,
and it's like, Okay, what is actually happening here versus
what is like ancillary detail? And you'll realize this is
a paragraph the length of a page with basically one
verb that is determining what is happening. And so it
sort of ruined my enjoyment of his poetry because I
just get so mad trying to like figure out what's
actually happening.
Speaker 10: Uh.
Speaker 11: Very poor Latin student.
Speaker 6: But uh, I have to say that for me, my
favorite of the poles would have to be Horrors or Horatius.
I feel that I feel that Horatius for me, he
kind of has a bit of that. He like, he's
got that sort of stomic seriousness of someone like Saysis
or Seneca, but he also has like this levity to
him in this sort of sense of you know, he's
not Epicurean, but he kind of sees the logic in
the Epicureans. And you know, what, you live once, and
you're blessed the life, and whilst you have time on
this earth, you should actually enjoy aspects of it, not
that you should debase yourself. He's still need morality, but
you know, you do need to laugh you know, injecting
a joke into discourse actually makes things better. You know,
there's insights that Horruce has that I find really like
if I was, I think, I mean, I know, the
whole like, oh, you have solo as your PfP thing.
But if I actually was to have like the character
of a Roman like imbued in me, probably someone like Katius,
they would say.
Speaker 11: Yeah, that's it is. That's an interesting point I need
to go back through. I'm woefully underread on poetry generally.
It's not really my my bag per se. But I
do think it's interesting that the national character of different
poets is incredibly accurate and it is. It is just
funny to me the difference between these like sort of
like you know, dark brooding, you know Anglo Norman poets, right,
you know, writing like and then the the obviously the
Romans are the Utalians, let alone the Germans, who I
am horribly underread even within a field I don't know
anything about with German poetry. But Marcus, we're overtime. This
has been a ton of fun. Where can people find you?
Speaker 6: Before I I do that, I just want to ask
you one quick question for me. You have that Roman's
post in the background. Now is that the poor spot
It's like fifteens for nineteen fifty five.
Speaker 14: No, it is not.
Speaker 11: That is the Jaguar type c ah, damn it closed?
Speaker 6: Nevermind? This is actually quite nice.
Speaker 11: Yeah it is. It's a cool uh, very limited run
replica print. And when I say replica, it is the
same composition of the original, but rebound by a modern artist.
It's super cool, uh. Ind and I'm quite partial to
the to the C type and the D type. We
had a red D type at the at the collection.
It was red and cream, incredibly beautiful car. But uh
had the worst fuel system known to man. I if
anyone should be forced to pay reparations, UH, the company
formerly known as Jaguar should pay me reparations for making
such a god off of fuel system.
Speaker 6: Well, you know the claim that the the guys or
clerks from top kies to make is that England, you know,
like from when automobiles became ubiquitous up till the seeks
these England awake to the sound of you know, because
like all they are Lucas fuel pumps were just crap, right,
And then the moment the first freaking Honda riding assault
to the public and have to who you know straight away,
and that like the English order industry died when the
first Japanese car was sold.
Speaker 11: Yes, and it was in addition to many other things.
The Brits never figured out two things, which is actually
another to say this. This is just most of internal combustion.
It was spark and fuel, which now that I say
that is two thirds of making a car, which is
not a great great start.
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Speaker 13: Oh Amy, my little one, I ask myself a million
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Speaker 6: Exactly like you to a combustion actually means something, by
the way.
Speaker 11: Yeah, well, they like Triumphs, were using generators well into
the seventies instead of alterned downs, which is just a
massive pain because it means that the thing that produces
the electricity for your car is constantly breaking itself. It
requires abrasion, and so once those little points wear down,
it just doesn't work anymore. And oh you want those points, well,
guess what. It's made by a guy in a shed
in the middle of a moor somewhere. He takes them
all to close enough.
Speaker 6: Spec so like some cottage shed in freaking East Anglia.
Speaker 11: You know, yeah, exactly, the spec is whatever Bob felt
And can you get one?
Speaker 6: No, you got another order for points? Or do it
after you have your tea and scones?
Speaker 11: You know, yeah, just just blasted off of dark, high
volume beer at all.
Speaker 6: Moments anyway, we are overtime, so you can find me
on on Twitter. It's renovar to you. If you is,
I have it you handle. But if your friend just
send me a request and I will accept. And obviously
I'm the co host on the Apostolic Majesty channel. In fact,
I shall be on tomorrow. We are we're entering into
Japan final. We've had this on the cards for the
last few months and actually am put out episode last
week about Catholic Japan and influence of the Portuguese and
the Western colonials to Japan. And we are doing I
think myself report Augustus. I think Hitman as well. There's
a few of us that will be on tomorrow night
and we will have that going.
Speaker 11: And yeah, I'm.
Speaker 6: Also sort of way if you if you come across
you know, Charlie or Jay Burton or any of the
old old glow club boys, you know, you can get
a hold of me pretty easily. Also have Telegram, don't
really use it that much, but I'm around. Just have
to at me because I don't really check my notifications
because I'm hopeless. But that aside, it's been splendid Jay Burton,
I'm glad we could tangent many points. I was gonna say,
next episode, we definitely got to touch on Japont And
now after you mentioned it, we got with you know,
we should play like a game of like we should
punch in some like racing driver names from the seventies
and do like a Muther categorization like rank them from
one to ten.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I'm thinking of we have some fun honest thing.
We also have to do that and then a rank
order like which nationality has the best bullets? Because you know,
you like, you know, I know, but there there are
a couple of NASCAR drivers that I think would give
you a run for your mind.
Speaker 6: True, true, true when it comes to tashes. I mean, god,
dal D saying you know, I mean, come on, you
know there.
Speaker 11: This is the most American Southern thing ever.
Speaker 6: But there's a.
Speaker 11: Dale Earnhardt themed roller coaster and they actually it was
it's an awesome roller coaster. I think that's what it's called.
But they actually had to change it because it was breaking.
Next it was literally like fracturing. If you were in
particularly week.
Speaker 6: It was very Nascal like, isn't it.
Speaker 11: I know, It's just just just like that's one of
those under like, that's what he would have wanted. You know.
Speaker 6: It's like that line from Days of Thunder Come now
it's coming across a notorious turn forward in Indianapolis.
Speaker 11: You know, yeah that's break you know, yeah, well that's
that's what it was, is that there was like this
huge drop with a huge bank's turn because of course
it was right. It's like the NASCAR racetrack rollers and
for a certain number of people it would just partially
separate their spine from their skull. And as far as
I'm concerned, that's a skill issue. Uh sorry, you're too
weak to go on this and now it's safe and
lane or whatever.
Speaker 6: Just like but that's another discussion today. The aney exactly listen,
thank you. I really really enjoyed it, as I do
with all that conversations, very much enjoyed them, Jay Burner,
look forward to Well, we'll definitely have to try and
see up a closer fonts. We don't forget your point,
and we have to start with your pond. O. It's
gonna become a running gag where we don't have you
talk about your ponds.
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's just a four part series where we never
talk about the central.
Speaker 6: Yeah, land up like to met Steven Sagull again. But anyway,
it doesn't matter.
Speaker 11: That's its own uh, that's its own rabbit hole. But anyway,
as far as my stuff, The Jay Burdon Show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
if you want to support me, you can throw me
a few bucks on Patreon, Substack, or gum road. Get
the episodes early in ed free. Check out our sponsor,
Axios Remote Fitness Coaching. Actually speaking, If you were interested
in any sort of combat sports, JD will help you out.
I know there's a couple of guys in there, and
he does does the lord's work with any recovery and
other things that are important. Again, Marcus, I appreciate it
and everyone in help keep your head up. I can't
last break.
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