Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast.
Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. I'm a writer, consulting, producer,
and now podcaster. I am now trying to use my
experience as the brother of a murder victim to help
other victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book
on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders and I'm the co
administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with
Kristin Dilly.
Speaker 1: My name is Kristin Dilly.
Speaker 3: I'm a writer, a researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate,
as well as the social media manager and co administrator
for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner
in crime.
Speaker 4: Bill Thomas. Welcome to mind Over Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly
and I'm Bill Thomas, and we're joined today by friend
of the podcast, Ron Peterson, back for his fifth go
around on mind Over Murder. Welcome Ron, We're so glad
to have you back. Thank you, Kristin.
Speaker 5: Bill. It's great to be on the podcas cast again
and now five times. I'm honored to be a frequent
flyer here.
Speaker 2: I don't know if anybody's ever exceeded Ron Peterson's totals here.
This is pretty impressive.
Speaker 4: He is one of our OG guests.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, although we still think of you as a
youthful OG.
Speaker 5: Thank you. I could think back. It was twenty nineteen
when I came on the podcast for the first time.
I had just Readen, my first book, and I didn't
know what I was doing, And now five years later,
I still don't know what That.
Speaker 4: Is not true. Your readers would beg to differ, and
you are a perpetual fan favorite. We do have people
who say I want something that's as good as Ron
Peterson's books, and we say we'll try to do the
best we can, but nothing beats our Ron Peterson.
Speaker 2: Book twenty nineteen. I think Kristin and I had just
invented podcasting back then. Oh no, I'm sorry, learned about podcasting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you just you had just broked me into
this really crazy saying, and we're trying to convince me
it was a good idea, And five years later, I'm
still not sure it's a good idea.
Speaker 2: But here we are, my dear, Actually six years come
coming up on seven. Kind of scary.
Speaker 6: Nah, I don't accept that you were a mere last
when we got started.
Speaker 5: So it's all good millions of downloads later for you guys.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about Ron Peterson's new book, Runaway Groom.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Runaway Groom takes place in Stanton, Virginia's So Ron
tell us a little bit about the case behind the book.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Kristen. Yeah, it's a fifth book I've written,
and these are all Virginia true crime. In each of them,
I've taken about a year to research and write and
to work with the key people that were involved in
the case to tell their stories. And as you said,
it takes place in Stanton, Virginia. It's a missing person
case about a young man named Pete Miller who disappeared
in nineteen eighty three. Pete who was twenty years old.
And the unique thing was that he disappeared two days
before his wedding day, which was November seventeenth, nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 4: The interesting question behind the book, the one that's written
on the slug line right at the top, is cold
feet or cold blooded murder. When someone first told you
about the case, what was your first thought? Did this
kid run away or was this kid murdered? You're a
crime writer, did your mind immediately go to crime?
Speaker 5: It did not at first, as you hear of truth
and stranger than fiction, right, yeah, natural. When he disappeared,
at first there was thought that he just had cold
feet and ran off, but he said he was twenty
years old. They was very excited to be marrying the
love of his life. Her name was Pitty Wilson. As
the days went by and the weeks went by, and
they turned to monks, his family was adamant that there
was foul play involved, that PD had met a terrible
feat and ultimately they came to believe that he was murdered.
As you guys know, with any missing person or a
murder investigation, it starts with people closest to the victim.
So started this family, they took a good look at
his fiance. Then after that one of the prime suspects
was his father in law to be. In this case,
it was his bride to be stepfather, whose name was
Charlie Almond, And he's certainly a big part of the story.
Speaker 2: Where did most people come down. Here's this young guy,
he's about to get married to the love of his life,
as you said, and then he disappears. Do you know
or have a sense of whether most people thought he
was the room with cold feet, or that something terrible
had happened. Do you know, like where the majority of
friends and family came down.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say that the people I talked to
that knew, well, they knew within a day or two
that something was terribly wrong. People that maybe only knew
him casually, or who lived in the city of Stanton
or the surrounding county, Augusta County, you know, they tend
to think although he just ran off. You know a
little bit about em I mentioned he was twenty years old.
He had not traveled extensively outside of the Stantony area
outside Augusta County, so was not a big traveler, which
just a good hearted country boy like, which is how
his sister and family members I spoke with described him.
Speaker 4: It's always a tragedy to read about a young person
losing their life before their life is relie even started.
But this one really just felt so awful because he
seemed like one of those He's a very nice guy.
He's a quintessential nice guy, and so to hear that
something awful had happened to him, it just made my
heart hurt.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and obviously your heart goes out to his family.
They were his mother and father, and then he had
a younger sister named Dorothy, who was one of the
key sources I worked with on the book. His father
was a farmer. He ran a family farm and then
also had a job as a small engine repair man shop.
He ran repaired lawn bowers and farm equipment. They were
just good, simple people, and I say simple in a
complimentary way because there was a lot of drama, but
not a lot like you'd hear about maybe some families
involved in other cases. The real hero of the story
would be Pete's father's name was Richard Miller, who was
in his forties when Pete disappeared. The local police department there,
on gust account sheriff department. They were a good police force,
but like a lot of rural or what we call
country police forces, they didn't have the opportunity to work
a lot of homicide cases. So you know, if anything
they were they probably didn't approach the case in the
same manner that a city would somewhere, say Richmond or
Norfolk were one of the other bigger cities that we
know of here Virginia from the very beginning of the
investigation was probably not as aggressive its should have been.
Then the PD's truck was also missing. It was an
old Chevrolet truck and about a mark after its disappearance,
that truck was got in Richmond, which was about an
hour and a half drive from Stanton. Was Then the
book gets into how it was processed for evidence, and
there were Although there was no forensic evidence and it's
some value obtained from the truck, there were things about it.
It's about that situation that pointed to the person who
eventually became the prime suspect, and that was Charlie Almond
who I mentioned, who was his bride to be stepfather.
Charliott Almond was in his fifties and he was a
guy who had a criminal pass, had served time in
prison before on property crimes like breaking an entering. This
was a day or a time when we didn't have
computerized records like we do now that showed his criminal
history from the sixties and seventies, had a very violent past,
had attempted a note at one point, while the book
gets into that when in the nineteen sixties he was
serving time in prison on robbery charges and his girlfriend
married another man while he was in prison. Charlie Almond
swore he was going to kill the guy when he
got out, and then sure enough, when he got out,
his old girlfriend moved to Charlotte with her new husband,
in large part to get away from Charlie Almond. And
nineteen sixty six, one morning he got out to step
out to go to work and there was a bomb
planted under the stepson's trailer. Flew both of his legs
and his arms, alving the mark of Lake survived that
that bombing. Charlie Olman face charges in math, but through
a really frustrating set of circumstances, he was not convicted
of that crawing that happened a good eighteen years before
before PD disappeared, and happened in another state in other jurisdiction,
and wasn't convicted of it. So there are a lot
of people who didn't know about that aspect of his pants.
Speaker 4: Yeah, when I read that portion of the book, Mine
Shaw hit the floor. I have never in a million
years heard about that kind of vindictiveness, and certainly not,
and then of course I'd never heard anybody who survived. Yeah,
a bomb blast like that, that's insane. But yeah, as
soon as I read about that, I was like, this
is not a guy you want to mess with. This
is so bad, Like this is looking really bad for
PD here. And so my question throughout the book was
what did p D ultimately do to encourage Charlie's wrath?
And you answered it, but way late in.
Speaker 5: The book there was a motive for PD's murder And yeah,
you're right, Chris, and that was something that it did
come up early in the investigation, but it became more
clear decades later as an investigation progressed. Charlie Allmond, it
seemed to me the comparison I make of him, and
I don't think I made it in the book, was
he was the hill billy Tony Soprano. Wow, yeah, in
just saying yeah, one of my all time favorite shows
is The Sopranos, and oh, Tony Tony Soprano, the character
on there, it is the sociopath and a guy that
operates above the law. He's got legal businesses and then
he's got illegal aspects that he makes a lot of
money on. A very violent guy, very vengeful and really
in his own way. Charlie Almond in this story was
certainly was a hill billy version of Tony Soprano, and
that he also had people that worked with him with
these these crimes that he'd be involved in.
Speaker 2: Question for you, though, Pee Miller is a very young man.
He's only twenty years old, so he's barely out of
his teens. Is he aware of the fact that his
father in law perspective father in law has this incredibly
violent past and is actually scary dude.
Speaker 5: That's a great question. I don't think he was fully
aware of it. I think he was. PD was probably
and I say probably because I can't be sure. He's
probably young and naive enough that he still saw the
good in people. Probably didn't understand what his future father
in law was really capable of. So that's I guess,
another sad part of the story. It also speaks some
level of Ped's character and that he typically saw the
good in people, and I'm sure he didn't think that
troll Norman was capable of doing what he was accused
of doing.
Speaker 2: That's all fine if there's good to be found, but
Charlie Alman doesn't really sound like he was deserving of
PD's always looking for the good in people.
Speaker 5: Park he didn't have a lot of redeeming qualities, but
I think he could probably put on a good first impression,
of good outward impression to people.
Speaker 4: We know that over the many years that passed by
with no answers in the PD Miller case, the case
did eventually go cold. I know that at least part
of the reason was because PD was never found. But
was it just a lack of a body that made
the case go cult?
Speaker 5: That was definitely not the only factor. I mentioned the
Sheriff's Department. While they were a good, dedicated law enforcement agency,
they did have some shortcomings I think in investigating a
case like this. I sayed that because I was privy
to the case file, I was given a case file
which spanned four decades in order to support the research
I did for the book. The investigators, I will say
they were all very ridiculous and the notes they took
and the impressions they had of different suspects of different
people that they interviewed. But there are certain times that
you as you're reading through it and realized that maybe
more experienced investigator would end up things a little bit different.
One of the reasons we'd like true crime is we
always liked to Monday Morning Quarterback the decisions the law
enforcement makes, and that's one that I did and readers
will like to do. In this there was also a
local prosecutor. His name was Lee Irvin. He was the
elected Commonwealth's Attorney of Augusta County. He did a good job.
But in this case, as more and more evidence over
the years was uncovered that implicated Charlie Almond, who was
getting older through the decades as well, he was very
hesitant to attempt to indict Almond from both his fear. Obviously,
there's an expression you can indict, I am Sam that
junior prosecutors say that on one of my favorite expressions
he here on mull in order a lot on the
television show. But can you convince a jury of twelve
that someone is guilty? And according to the local Commonwealth's attorney,
although you could arguably have probable cause, you couldn't convince
a jury beyond a reasonable doubt, this suspect Charlie Allmond
had actually killed Pete Miller. You were missing. There was
no forensic evidence. There was only circumstantial evidence, and obviously
the biggest piece the investigation you were missing, and that
was the body. Now this book I mentioned, it's my fifth.
It's a contrast for my first book, which I wrote
about another no body murder case, the case of Gina Hall,
in which Steve Epley was convicted in the commonwealth attorney
in that case in Pulaski County, Virginia, Everett Shockley, he
was one that boldly decided to move forward and died
uptly for murder without the biggest piece of evidence, and
that became the first nobody murder conviction of Virginia. It's
an interesting thing to compare and contrast these two cases
and where they were throughout the investigation.
Speaker 2: There are some of the challenges in a nobody homicide
investigation and ultimately prosecution. Some people really struggle with this,
like the idea that are you really going to be
able to charge someone with murder when you actually don't
have the ultimate proof that someone is dead, which is
a cadaver.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's done quite a bit now. Bensville and
Kristens Early. As listeners the podcasts know from the crime
stories that you hear about, it's not unusual these days
because of all the technology that we have, not only DNA,
but cell phone evidence cameras, just all the technology that
a prosecutor can bring to bear and a nobody murder prosecution,
but back then we didn't have that back in the
eighties we're talking. This was over forty years ago. As
I've said a few times, you know that biggest piece
of evidence is the body. You can tell so many
things by the time of death, the cause of death,
as well as gathering forensic evidence that can implicate the killer.
And then with I think anytime there's a jury of twelve,
the easiest thing for a defense attorney to do is
to say, hey, you haven't even proved this person it's dead. Yeah,
that posture has proved three things. Has to prove that
the alleged victim is in fact dead, that they're dead
as a result of homicide. And then the third thing
is that the accused actually committed the murder. You're really
behind the eight ball prosecuting a nobody murder case.
Speaker 4: Did Charlie Almond's reputation in the Valley also influence the
fact that the Commonwealth's Attorney, Lee Irvin was really thinking
twice before trying to prosecute him. Did his Tony Sopranos
reputation have anything to do with why there was some
hesitancy there.
Speaker 5: I think it probably did. Although a lot of people
I knew who knew Lee Irvin and worked around her
for a while him for many years, have said that
they don't think that he was intimidated by Charlie Almon.
But you know, really, I don't think. I don't see
how you could be. I mentioned that had tried to
kill someone with a bombing. He also faced charges for
poisoning someone.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was crazy.
Speaker 5: I got this is the type of person. They wouldn't
just walk up to you and assault you, but he
would do things really sneaky way. I also just paper
account of him having a business disagreement with someone and
he threw a skunk in their will. It's so Almo's funny,
and would Lizzy's read it, they'll laugh just a how
vengeful he was. But obviously we're talking about something really
serious here. The prosecutor very well may have been a
bit intimidated with I think if he'd have been one
hundred percent sure that he could have charged Almond with
murder and convicted him, that he would have gone forward
with it. In the absence of that that he was
not going to not going to mess around with them,
and I do think over the years there were many
investigators and many officers in Augusta County who worked on
this case, and I think there's a good possibility also
a lot of them were intimidated by Charlie Almond as well.
Speaker 2: In a book that's packed with some really colorful names
like Charlie Almond, I really like the name of this citizen,
Sleuth Lowell. Sheets that sounds like a stage name almost
tell us about Lowell and how his sleuthing helped solve
a cold case in Stanton, Virginia.
Speaker 5: Lowell was an awesome guy to work with as I
wrote the book. He was another one of my sources
who provided a lot of information. He was a local citizen.
He grew up in Augusta County, was a graduate Afford
Defiance High School there, and he owned an a client store,
probably the largest appliance store Inton and Augusta Kernick. He
had a background originally as a Probation of Parole officer,
where I think was one of the first shots he
had out of college, so he knew the legal system
and also got to be friends with a lot of people.
He knew the town well and just a good student
of human nature. He became interested in another case, a
martyr case pretty notorious in Stanton. It was known as
the High's ice Cream murders, when two people in a
High Oh Yeah store were chilled. He was a guy,
just as you said of citizen Sleuth, who took an
interest in that case, got permission from the Stanton Police
Department to work on it, and he actually helped solve
that case. He was the guy who identified his suspect
and eventually there was a deathbed confession and that unsolved
double murder that had haunted Stanton for decades. So when PD.
Miller's father heard about that, he got in touch with
LOLd Sheets and said, hey, I want you to help
with my son's case. I think we know who did it.
I want you to work on it and potentially even
help the Sheriff's department here. And that's what moul Sheets did,
and it's part time. He helped out and although there
was nothing that he did directly to move the case forward,
he really uncovered a lot of interesting information I think,
and made it more of an initiative for the Sheriff's
department to work on the case.
Speaker 4: Familiar figure that longtime Ron Peterson readers will recognize from
In the Wind also appears in the pages of this book.
And that's still Figura. Okay, the Dragon Slayer.
Speaker 2: I love that nickname.
Speaker 4: Which is that's the best nickname ever. Was like, I
would love it if that was my nickname.
Speaker 2: That's fantastic, Phil, But people call me the Dragon Claire.
Speaker 4: I love.
Speaker 2: We want to meet Phil at some point, yes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred percent. Remind our listeners who Phil is
and how he was involved in both In the Wind
and then here in Runaway Groom.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, And first off, I have to say Phil is
probably the most modest person I know in terms of
the incredible work he's done and just how modest and
unassuming he is about it. Phil worked for many years
as the Assistant Attorney General in Richmond work in the
Attorney General's office. He's an attorney and probably one of
the best prosecutors we've ever had in Virginia. His job
in the Attorney General's office is, or it was, he's
no longer in that position. When there was a difficult
to prosecute case out in a county or a city
and the local prosecutor was not comfortable prosecuting that case,
or was not capable to prosecuting that case. Then Phil
Figuera with someone who could be brought in to pick
up the investigation and ultimately indict the suspect, take the
case to court and prosecute that person, and much more
often than not, win that case. Over the years, in
the two thousands, he prosecuted gang murder cases and new
print news and in Norfolk, in the Shenandoah Valley a
like Harrisonburg and up and Down eighty one. In the
two early two thousands, there was a drug problem. There
were drug gangs, and there were related homicides to that,
and filled with someone who came from Richmond to prosecute
those cases and really made a lot of headway in that,
and a lot of that was an initiative by the
Governor of Virginia at that time.
Speaker 2: You're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back
after this word from our sponsors, We're back here at
mindover Murder.
Speaker 5: The turning point in the PD Miller case was in
twenty eleven, and now this is the fourth decade ped
has been missing. It was twenty eleven Pete's father, with
nothing to lose he made a phone call. He got
philter Gera's cell phone number, called Phil to Gera and
Phil's driving in his car and starts basically almost an
argument with saying, Hey, I know who killed my son.
No one is doing anything about it. You've got to
come here to Stanton hold this person accountable. And Phil
lappingly told me he said, now wait a minute, who
are you and what case are you talking?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Arguing with me yet, yeah, but Phil getting a really
detailed account of this conversation. At that point, mister Miller,
Pete's father calmed down and he said, here's what's going on.
As I said, nobody will do a damn thing about it.
Phil promised him. He said, hey, I promise you I
will talk to the local prosecutor there un though you
were standing, I happen to know him, and if there's
anything I can do, I'll do it. So a few
days later Phil started looking into the case and he
got very interested in it. He asked the local prosecutors
permission to pick up the case, and Lee Irvan was
more than happy to let him do it. And then
Phil began working with another hero in this story, whose
name was Aaron Levett. Aaron was a lieutenant with the
jong Eath County Sheriff's Apartment and the lead investigator in
this case. I had just started working on the case
about a year or two prior. And was that probobial
fresh sense of eyes that had been on the case.
Oh yeah, yeah. So together Phil Fagera and Aaron Leveck
got a lot more serious about prosecuting the case. And
there were many witnesses in the community there who had
circumstantial evidence, none of it direct evident. There was no
witness to the murder. They became more comfortable and more
confident that, you know, that the case would be prosecuted
and that all men could potentially be put where he
belonged to prison than in twenty fifteen, Charlie Armon eventually
was indicted for the first degree murder of Pete Miller.
And I've already probably given away too much of the story,
but oh no, I think there's so much more.
Speaker 4: Really, there is a ton more. Yeah, yeah, oh, Because
it's the interesting part is figuring out how are they
finally going to how are they finally going to get
this guy? How are we finally going to reach a
point that allows him to prosecute this guy that we've
all known from the beginning one hundred percent did this.
He sounded just awful. We had mentioned at one point
in there that Charlie Allman would make a point of
going to places where he knew the Miller family was
going to be so that they could see him, almost
as a taunt but that I did this to your kid,
but you can't prove it, and I'm going to be
here in various places and just taunt you about it.
It was like, I can't think of anything worse to
do to a grieving family than to make sure that
you're always there right where they can see you. What
an evil, awful thing to do just that on its face.
Speaker 5: It really was. It was a true sociopath, and just
the things he did to talk to family, it was
really sadistic to do that. In a lot of ways,
it was to intimidate Bim and other people who might
have information. He did not want him to come forward.
I mentioned when phild Figuera began to investigate and prosecute
the case, what had happened over those last three or
four decades. Charlie Allmond just his in his role as
a career criminal. He would use Pete Miller at an example,
to intimidate other people if he hadn't disagreement with someone,
whether it was a business disagreement or a disagreement or
with criminal matter, he'd tell them things like, listen, you're
going to end up just like PD Miller. Or another
time he had an altercation with someone said listen, I
have a way of making people disappear. And there were
other things that said that were even detailed about what
he had done to PD. And again it was to
boost to them credibility as a violent criminal and then
also to intimidate people to his advantage. Now, those people
had always been scared to come on to record and
share that information with law enforcement. But then when Phil
Fagha picked up the case, those same witnesses, when in
Phil Figere and Aaron Levett would circle back to them
and talk to them, they were a lot more confident
coming forward. And then those were the people who eventually
testified in the trial against Charlie Almond. I can't tell
how it ended up, but I can tell you it
was an entirely circumstantial case that was presented. There was
no forensic evidence in what was their thirty three year
old nobody murder case. Just a fascinating job with the
prosecution of this case.
Speaker 2: Let's go to motive for a second. Other than the
fact that Charlie Allmond is clearly a sociopath, why would
he want to kill off his daughter's boyfriend soon to
be husband.
Speaker 5: What's that about that? I probably should not get into.
I think that might be too much of a spoiler,
except to say that Charlie obviously did not want his
stepdaughter marrying pet Almond. She didn't want him to leave
his house. Essentially, should be noted she was eighteen years
old at the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he was twenty. It's not anybody was underage.
I know they were a kid. You have to buy
the book if you want to find out why this
all went down.
Speaker 5: I can tell you there was. It was a very
good motive that he had, not a good motive, but
a very valid motive, and the jury found it quite
easy to understand. I believe. I can tell you.
Speaker 2: That as longtime supporters, we urge people to buy the book. Yeah,
you're going to want to read run Away Groom, and
you're going to want to own a copy.
Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely. Bron We're always eager to hear about your
research and writing process, so talk to us a little
bit about how you went about researching this case, especially
because it's back in the eighties, which are feeling further
and further away every year. There aren't always computerized records availables.
What kind of shoe leather did you have to did
you have to use up to go to Stanton and
look up this information?
Speaker 5: Thanks for asking. It was all in all about a
year and a half I spent writing this book, and
it started several years ago actually, when Phil Figura, who
I wrote about him Casey prosecuted in Hampton in my
book As a Monster. Phil said, listen, I've got another
case I prosecuted in Stanton. It was a doozy if
you want to write about it will make a great story.
And he gave me the short version of it, and
I said, man, absolutely, I had another book project I
was doing before that, which was in the wind, and
I promised him I was going to circle back, and
then when I did. Bill was my main source as
the prosecutor in this murder case, and then he was
very kind to introduce me to the other people that
were involved, and also to give me a reference that,
for example, the investigator and then other people that if
they talked to me, that I would do a good
job in sharing the true story of what happened. So
from there I found all the key people in the
story that I had to interview.
Speaker 2: Lol.
Speaker 5: Sheeks was one of them. Pete's closest surviving family member
was his sister Dorothy, who was a very cooperative and
one of the story told. One of the things that
she said, she felt that over the years and just
because the things that came up in the trial, that p.
D had more or less lost his dignity and she
hoped that I could write the book in a way
that would help bring his dignity back. I feel like
I did that, and then and spoke with her since
she has read the book after it came out, she
came to one kickoff book launch events we did and
seemed very gracious for the job I did in writing
the books, so I was very happy about that. I
was also the Augusta count and Sheriff's department was very nice.
The current sheriff there and his lieutenant let me spend
a few days actually at the sheriff's office. They wouldn't
let me take the case file out, but I got
to sit in the conference room and look through it.
It was two great, big banker's boxes with all the
information about this case, pictures, photos, suspect interviews, interviews of
so many people around the case, and case summaries. So
I was able to do that. And then at the
Augusta County Courthouse because this was a landmark trial there
they had a copy of the trial transcript. So one
of my favorite things that I've done this with other
books is to read through that trintal transcript reads like
an episode of Law and Order. It can read into it,
and then to summarize that into about one hundred pages
of the book on what happened in the trial. All
in all, I talked to probably probably about seventy five
source is in this book. Wow, and a lot of
time in Stanton, which, despite these tragic and violin events,
one of my one of my favorite small towns at
Prigid just it's gorgeous, Oh it is the just a
just an incredible town and named the county surrounding in
Augusta County just a beautiful county there as well. That
was you know, our process of writing the book.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Stanton's got a wonderful little main street USA vibe.
And they've got a wonderful main street that my life
partner Mark and I will go up there periodically, and
our favorite thing to do is hit the book Dragon first.
Speaker 2: From book I remember you've mentioned the book Dragons.
Speaker 4: The book Dragon. I love the book Dragon. Shout out
to the book Dragon. Walk around on the main street
and stuff like that, and and then get dark chocolate
gelato at the Split Banana Very Street, and that's that's
a good day in our book bookstores and ice cream.
But Stanton's beautiful and it's got some really gorgeous architecture.
So I envy you for being able to spend some
time in Stanton.
Speaker 5: It's yes, would you stay.
Speaker 2: There or would you drive back and forth every day?
How did that work logistically?
Speaker 5: Yeah? I would stay there. I'd go for maybe two
or three days at a time. It's about a about
a two hour two and a half hour drive from
my house. Yeah, I'd stay a couple of days at
a time. My wife came with me a few of
those times. Oh good, good, the same reasons as Chris,
and she really loved it. And then I'd also bounce
ideas off of her and so forth. But yeah, it was.
And the books I write, and you guys have probably
gathered this there. You've got the characters in the story,
and I try to bring them to life, these real
white people and the things they did. One of the
other characters is the place that it happened, town of
Stanton in the surrounding Augusta County. And then another character
you could say, especially if we're talking about the meet thees,
is you know the time period, so it was this
happened and except the stage. It was November of nineteen
eighty three. Ronald Reagan was president. Most popular TV shows
were Dallas and Madge. Oh yeah, The y Oakland Raiders
were under way to winning the Super Bowl that year,
and the most popular song with songs were Thriller and
All Night Long by Lionel Ritchie. Uh huh yeah. But
if you like the country, which they get instant, and
the number one song was Islands in the Stream by
Dolly Parton and Genmy Rodgers.
Speaker 4: I remember it well, yeah, I remember that song there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, But it does place it in an
era and a time and a place, and it helps
paint the picture for your reader about what was going
on back then.
Speaker 5: Indeed, it really does, and it's I've mentioned this on
your podcast before, but one of the reasons I like
writing about the crime cases murder cases that happened in
the eighties is it's a sweet spot in the the
people who worked on those cases very often by now
they're retired and they're more willing to share information. As
you guys well know from your work in the Quarter
Parkway murders. When if an active investigation and open investigation agencies,
whether it's local, state, or federal, they will generally will
not share information because nope, they don't want to compromise
the investigation from the adjutation for that. So I've had
some frustration in doing that. I find if I write
about a case like this one that's fully adjudicated, it's
been through court that has concluded in some closure, then
everybody's really willing to talk about it. And for so
many of the law enforcement people who worked on this case,
this was the most noteworthy murder case that they'd ever
been involved in because of all the crazy things that
happened and the twists and turns.
Speaker 2: Do most of those folks let you record them. When
you're doing here, you are you're interviewing as many as
seventy five people. A lot of them are going to
have worthwhile things to say. I'm trying to figure out,
are you furiously taking notes or do they let you
record the conversations? How does it work logistically? A little
bit of both.
Speaker 5: Bill. I always ask their permission, is it okay if
I record this? I want to make I'll ask you
that are okay if I record this? I want to
make sure I get it right, And most people will
send sure, no problem. Some people say I'd rather you're
not record it, and then that takes all. I'll take
furious notes. Then I've also found that some people, if
I'm recording it, they're really not comfortable opening up. Okay,
we're wondering about that. Yeah, yeah, So I'll record our
initial conversation, and then if I talk to them again
following up, I'll say, hey, this time, I'm not going
to record it. I'm just going to take notes as
that okay, And I'll find then the second go round
they'll maybe open up a little more and probably like
you guys. I've also got apps on my phone that
I can record a phone call with when I do that,
or I five with them. Will we use that technology
on a smartphone to record the conversation as well with
their permission of course.
Speaker 4: So I am wondering because you end up interviewing so
many people, law enforcement, forensic experts, family and friends, the
suspect and the victim. Do you have the same approach
and interview style for each person you interview or does
it change depending on who you're talking to?
Speaker 5: Great question. I would say it changes depending on who
I talk to. I'm not a great interviewer. That I
don't ask, and that I'm not good at asking like
these super good questions. I think for whatever reason, people
are comfortable talking to me. And if you're just and
this probably goes for anything, if you're just listening to
someone actively and interested in what they say and guiding
the conversation in certain directions, people a lot of times
will tell you what you want to know. It might
take a little longer. I found, generally speaking, people are
comfortable and sharing information with me and the work I've
done so far. At least people in law enforcement are
comfortable and confident enough that I'm not going to make
them look bad. I'm not going to take what they
say and spend it in a way to make them
look bad. So they're always typically very willing to share.
There are times, though, when I'll have to follow up
with them with a phone call or via the email
to get clarification, or if I realized there is something
they brought up that I didn't follow up on, I'll
ask them about that.
Speaker 2: Two part question. Do you have a preference between phoneers
or zoom calls and in person interviews? Do you have
a preference for those two approaches in face to face
versus you could be across the state or across the country. Yeah,
I would let's rather do it in person if our
schedules allow. So you know, a book like this, or
for example, the books I wrote in Southwest Virginia out
in the New River Valley past Roanoke, out in that
area for travel purposes, I try and schedule a lot
of my interviews or meetings in a day. Inevitably would
have to do a lot of that by phone. I
think in terms of rapport building, if you're sitting down
with someone, it's a lot easier to have a conversation.
Conversation typically tends to go better, and then you also
pick up on a lot of non verbal jees and
so forth. So yeah, I would prefer in person. Do
you do the interviews? Let's say when you're in Stanton,
you don't live there, you don't have a house there.
Where did you actually do the interviews? You can't talk
about murder in a coffee shop, can you?
Speaker 6: I think we know you can talk about murder anywhere,
and we probably do, we do honestly, But how lot?
How do you do it?
Speaker 5: A lot of times a coffee shop. I've had a
lot of meetings at a coffee shop. We talk quietly.
It's funny. I had a meeting recently where there was
a place I wanted to meet with someone, but I
knew the acoustics there were just too quiet. But wouldn't
be able to a lot of times if it's a
noisy restaurant, that actually works well because you're sitting at
le getting close to each other. Yeah. And then really
a surprising number of people are comfortable having me talked
to them, to their whole whole really. Yeah, if these
are retired law enforcement people. I go back to my
first book Under the trustle to Prosecutor Everett Shockling. The
first time I met with him, he invited me to
his house and we sat down in his living room
and talked for about two and a half hours. A
lot of people that would be especially on the law enforcements.
Occasionally there's some shadier people I have to talk to
these cases, you meanwies. Make sure that's a public place, meeting.
Speaker 2: Them in some bar somewhere.
Speaker 4: Around. The book is fantastic. The book is Runaway Groom
by Ron Peterson Jr. It is about the case of
PD Miller in nineteen eighty three in Virginia Shenandoah Valley.
Where can everybody find their copyrn.
Speaker 5: It's available wherever books are sold. About all the Barns
and Noble stores, especially in Hampton Roads, They're all available there.
There's some Barns and Noble that don't carry it, but
they can order it in the next day. Independent bookstores
as well. I was enter a great bookstore in Blacksburg
Books this past weekend, an independent bookstore that carries all
my books. Then, of course Amazon is where a lot
of books are also soldek Stays, So yeah, any of
those outlets. It's available in paperback, in Kendle and ebook
and then it's coming out soon also in the audio
book in the audible format with a great narrator named
Kyle Tate who has narrated by other four books.
Speaker 2: Oh it's funny, I wondered if you've ever thought about
narrating them or is that something you'd rather leave to
a professional narrator.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I thought briefly about doing it, and that was it.
But from the very beginning from my first book, there's
a company that has acquired the audio rights on books
called tan Toward Media, their division of a company called
Recorded Books, who's the largest audiobook production company out there.
So they produced the audio version of books for audible
and for audiobook services. And I said, they use a
narrator called named Kyle Tates. He lives in the Atlanta,
Georgia area and as a professional voice actor and commentator
who just does a great job with it.
Speaker 4: Runaway Groom in stores near you. Ron, thank you so
much for joining us. As always, it is a pleasure.
Speaker 5: Thank you guys. Thank Tristan. Bill was great to catch
up with you, and I appreciate all the help you've
given me over the years. Thanks so much.
Speaker 4: Of course, that is going to do it for this
episode of Mind Over Murders. Thank you so much for listening.
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and
Another Dog Productions.
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley.
Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnoit.
Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kevin McCloud.
Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media.
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Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway
Murders on Facebook.
Speaker 2: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at
Bill Thomas five six.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder as