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<v Speaker 1>Eddie Dragon in New Mexico owns a radio station even

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<v Speaker 1>though it was attacked by terrorists. His tower was attacked,

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<v Speaker 1>and yet he pursues, He continues because he is a capitalist.

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<v Speaker 1>Eddie Dragon, are you in Idaho, Iowa? Where are you today?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm in New Mexico. And never say quit. You never

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<v Speaker 2>quit capitalists, never quit. I love the hour. What an

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<v Speaker 2>education on strip clubs though I had no idea, Walter

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<v Speaker 2>fascinating business persistence. And then you have that wonderful man

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<v Speaker 2>who has staying with his wife after all that time,

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<v Speaker 2>his second wife and I got a full education on

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<v Speaker 2>car sterios. Who knew they should get it could get

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<v Speaker 2>so profitable.

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<v Speaker 1>Well to prevent them, to create the sleeve that enabled

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<v Speaker 1>you to just take it out when you left the car.

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<v Speaker 1>That was a very important device in the late nineties

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<v Speaker 1>because those car radios were being stolen like crazy, and

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<v Speaker 1>because they could come out, and so he had. What

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<v Speaker 1>he did was he ran a business that enabled you

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<v Speaker 1>to manage that and not have your car radio stolen.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a big problem. It was a big problem. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>Eddie Dragon, New Mexico, what do you have to report?

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<v Speaker 1>Bring us up to date on conspiracies? Mysteries everything.

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<v Speaker 2>You're an expert on Well England. On August nineteenth, ninety,

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty seven, Walter is literally at the forefront of

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<v Speaker 2>the biggest gun control of all of Europe. And it

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<v Speaker 2>happened on this day back in nineteen eighty seven. You're

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<v Speaker 2>in Hungerford. There's actually a song about this by the

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<v Speaker 2>great band called Radiohead. It's called Sulk, and it's a

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<v Speaker 2>fascinating story because this is the beginning of massive gun

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<v Speaker 2>control in the UK. So you're back in Hungerford, which

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<v Speaker 2>is a quiet market town in Berkshire, about seventy min

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<v Speaker 2>else west of London, and it's the kind of place,

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<v Speaker 2>Walter where the biggest emergency might be a fire or wreck,

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<v Speaker 2>or you know, some fight the pub or something. But

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<v Speaker 2>it's a town of small shops, country lanes, familiar faces

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<v Speaker 2>and people who believed they were removed from the kind

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<v Speaker 2>of violence scene in big cities or here in America.

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<v Speaker 2>Then the gun fire started and by the time the

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<v Speaker 2>day was over, sixteen innocent people are dead, another fifteen

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<v Speaker 2>are wounded, and the killer is dead too, or is

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<v Speaker 2>he by his own hand? His name was Michael Robert Ryan,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty seven years of age, quiet, isolated, fascinated by firearms,

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<v Speaker 2>and according to the law at the time, entitled to

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<v Speaker 2>own them, though not today because Ryan possessed certificates for

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<v Speaker 2>shotguns and firearms, and in the months before the attack

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<v Speaker 2>he legally bought three shotguns and five firearms, and on

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<v Speaker 2>the day he launched his rampage he had a bat.

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<v Speaker 2>I had a nine milimeters pistol, a Chinese type fifty

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<v Speaker 2>six semi automatic rifle no longer legal than England, and

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<v Speaker 2>an Underwood thirty caliber carbine. No stolen weapons, no black

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<v Speaker 2>market cachet is just a you know, no exposure to

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<v Speaker 2>criminal gang pipelines. This guy was a legal weapons owner

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<v Speaker 2>in the hands the man that authorities had you know,

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<v Speaker 2>completely illegally allowed to own them. Now. The killing began

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<v Speaker 2>outside the town, then it moved into Hungerford itself. Ryan

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<v Speaker 2>shot people right in the open on streets near homes.

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<v Speaker 2>He returned to his family house and then murdered his

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<v Speaker 2>own mother, Dorothy. He killed an unarmed police officer, D. C.

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<v Speaker 2>Roger Barrenton was responding to all the chaos, and he

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<v Speaker 2>fired at least one hundred and nineteen rounds during that rampage.

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<v Speaker 2>Eighty four from that Chinese type fifty six rifle, thirty

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<v Speaker 2>four from the Barretta pistol, and one from the carbine.

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<v Speaker 2>So for the people of Hungerford, this was not a

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<v Speaker 2>distant breaking news story. This is nineteen eighty seven, right,

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<v Speaker 2>This wasn't playing on television like the way it would,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, just six years and seven years later to

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<v Speaker 2>in the case of Oj, it was immediate. The danger

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<v Speaker 2>was outside their very doors. Sirens racing to the town

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<v Speaker 2>were you know, whirling, and you know, everything just kind

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<v Speaker 2>of complete until chaos and reticidents had to like hide

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<v Speaker 2>in their homes while the police tried to understand whether

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<v Speaker 2>they faced one shooter or ten shooters or something worse.

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<v Speaker 2>Because this man Ryan eventually entered the local school called

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<v Speaker 2>John o'gaunt. Police surrounded the building, the attempted to negotiate

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<v Speaker 2>with him, but the crisis ended without an arrest, the

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<v Speaker 2>satisfying arrest, without a trial, the satisfying trial without a

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<v Speaker 2>complete explanation, in fact, no explanations, because Ryan died by

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<v Speaker 2>suicide inside the school, and that missing explanation is where

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<v Speaker 2>the whole mystery begins. Because when the killer dies, as

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<v Speaker 2>in any case, and the case dies with him. It

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't die in any court rooms where it should happen.

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<v Speaker 2>There was no confession. This man has no manifesto, no

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<v Speaker 2>final statement laying out political causes, a grudge list, you know, motives. Nothing.

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<v Speaker 2>Investigators could reconstruct what Ryan did. They could count the rounds,

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<v Speaker 2>they could trace his legally acquired weapons, but they could

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<v Speaker 2>not answer the question that people always ask after an

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<v Speaker 2>apparently senseless mass killing. Why That vacuum created an entire

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<v Speaker 2>ecosystem of speculation in Britain. One theory claim that Ryan

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<v Speaker 2>had help another gunman accomplish you know, perhaps a criminal network,

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<v Speaker 2>and other suggested he was tied to an international arms dealer.

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<v Speaker 2>Still others pointed to supposed secret relationships, claims about his

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<v Speaker 2>private life, the unseen motive, and boiling you know, his

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<v Speaker 2>first victim, who was Susan Godfrey. They thought she was

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<v Speaker 2>the target. There was also a cultural explanation. Ryan was

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<v Speaker 2>acting out some sort of weird fantasy inspired by violent

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<v Speaker 2>movies military imagery. Remember this is nineteen eighty seven. This

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<v Speaker 2>is like the beginning of all these mass shootings, or

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<v Speaker 2>back in the nineteen eighties, a fascination with some sort

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<v Speaker 2>of lone wolf action heroes. But Here is the crucial

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<v Speaker 2>line for the record. None of the theories were established

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<v Speaker 2>as fact. Never nothing, not one investigation identified him as

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<v Speaker 2>a soul attacker. That's it could put end the story.

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<v Speaker 2>No evidence, no credible evidence surfaced of an accomplice, the

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<v Speaker 2>secret organization of political plot or coordinator operation, no manifesto, nothing,

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<v Speaker 2>But that does not make the unanswered questions disappear. In

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<v Speaker 2>all this, Walter, it simply means that unanswered is not

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<v Speaker 2>the same as proven. And in a world that creates

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<v Speaker 2>clean explanations like we have with Charlie kirk right, there's

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<v Speaker 2>so much dissemination, of so much misinformation. All of this

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<v Speaker 2>gifts its very uncomfortable and everything since this inception back

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<v Speaker 2>in eighty seven until today, with these mass shootings, has

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<v Speaker 2>led to the very same type of speculation, and in

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<v Speaker 2>this case massive gun control, and every time you see

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<v Speaker 2>a mass shooting here in the United States, massive more

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<v Speaker 2>gun control that is on the table again. People want

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<v Speaker 2>to believe that there must be some sort of hidden

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<v Speaker 2>cause and all this a conspiracy, a handler, a secret

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<v Speaker 2>like you know, some messages, a manifesto, And sometimes there

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<v Speaker 2>is right, but sometimes the most unsettling answer is that

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<v Speaker 2>the killers you know, wounds, his mental state, what have

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<v Speaker 2>you is just completely inaccessible. And that's the worst mystery

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<v Speaker 2>of all. His victims paid the price for it. Hugerford

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<v Speaker 2>did not produce, you know, any sort of visible consequences

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<v Speaker 2>in this case, but it did have one, and that

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<v Speaker 2>is a complete and total radical shift in British firearms policy.

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<v Speaker 2>And this has become the blueprint there in America and

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<v Speaker 2>everywhere else in Britain is the worst walter or gun control.

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<v Speaker 2>Before the massacre, Britain had gun licensing everywhere Ryan had

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<v Speaker 2>passed through the system. After the killings, the public in

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<v Speaker 2>Parliament demanded the answers. It's always fun to watch them

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<v Speaker 2>go aft at each other. The Firearms Amendment Act eighty

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<v Speaker 2>eight banned most of the automatic pump action rifles, Restrictaturdan's

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<v Speaker 2>shotguns ammunition, required shotgun owners to register their weapons and

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<v Speaker 2>keep them stored, and then came the full surrender. This

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<v Speaker 2>is where it gets even weirder. Just this one gun incident.

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<v Speaker 2>There was no amnesty. The law took effect. It brought

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<v Speaker 2>in nearly forty eight thousand firearms immediately. Lawful owners newly

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<v Speaker 2>prohibited weapons had to hand them over, dispose of them

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<v Speaker 2>legally or face possessing prohibited gun. And then the dark

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<v Speaker 2>legacy just continues. Massacres carried out with guns ahead been

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<v Speaker 2>legally acquired, a killer who left no credible final explanation,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you have all these guns being taken back,

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<v Speaker 2>and this town permanently branded by one afternoon of terror,

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<v Speaker 2>thirty one victims, all sixteen died, and a nation that

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<v Speaker 2>basically just responded by deciding that every category of firearm

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<v Speaker 2>would no longer be left in private hands. So, on

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<v Speaker 2>this day, forty years ago, Walter, remember Hungerford, not for

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<v Speaker 2>his mythology, not for the conspiracy claims that flourished after yourread,

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<v Speaker 2>but for the sixteen people who were actually murdered. In

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<v Speaker 2>the moment Britain actually realized that its gun laws had

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<v Speaker 2>failed to prevent catastrophe. And I've gone through all of

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<v Speaker 2>the massive gun laws of Walter. Luxembourg, Belgium, Netherlands, Ireland

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<v Speaker 2>at the very top of the list, very worst. England.

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<v Speaker 2>Private ownership of virtually all cartridge handguns prohibited along with

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<v Speaker 2>automatic weapons, every self loading center fire rifle, fire army

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<v Speaker 2>shotgun ownership requires police certification, lawful purpose, complete and total

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<v Speaker 2>background check and they have to scan the weapon. They

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<v Speaker 2>have to scan the firearm, suitability checks, mental suitability checks.

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<v Speaker 2>By the way, secure storage meaning you can't have it

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<v Speaker 2>exposed anywhere. How are you going to get to it self?

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<v Speaker 2>Defense is generally not accepted as a reason to acquire

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<v Speaker 2>a gun. So for how many people who want to

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<v Speaker 2>go how many people were murdered in this mass murder event,

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<v Speaker 2>sixteen with fifteen additional victims, so thirty one total victims

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<v Speaker 2>but sixteen actually actual fatalities.

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<v Speaker 1>Eddie Dragon, an amazing story. Even the police in England

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<v Speaker 1>don't carry firearms. That's how controlled it is, and there

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<v Speaker 1>it is. It didn't make any difference at all if

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<v Speaker 1>somebody wants to be a psycho. If somebody is a psycho,

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<v Speaker 1>they're going to go ahead and figure out a way

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<v Speaker 1>to do it. Eddie Dragon, thank you very much for

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<v Speaker 1>being on the other side of midnight.