WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:01.600 Today, I want to tell you about a journey that 2 00:00:01.639 --> 00:00:03.919 I've been on for most of my life. Ever since 3 00:00:03.960 --> 00:00:05.839 I was a kid, I've heard tales of bigfoot and 4 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.359 wild men while spending time with my friends and family. 5 00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:11.480 As I grew older and read more about the paranormal, 6 00:00:11.640 --> 00:00:14.720 my interest in cryptids and other things strange only deepened. 7 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:17.199 That's why I'm so excited to share with you what 8 00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:21.679 I've personally become involved with The Untold Radio Network. The 9 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:25.320 Untold Radio Network is a live streaming podcast network that 10 00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:29.399 airs a new show every day across all podcast platforms, YouTube, 11 00:00:29.399 --> 00:00:32.159 and more. They have eight different shows on all sorts 12 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:36.159 of exciting topics such as bigfoot, cryptids, UFOs, aliens, and 13 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:39.479 much more. I even have my own show called Weird Encounters, 14 00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:42.479 where I talk about all things strange. This is more 15 00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:45.320 than just a podcast network. It's a community that allows 16 00:00:45.320 --> 00:00:47.759 me to meet so many amazing people who share their 17 00:00:47.799 --> 00:00:51.560 stories and experiences with strange. If you're interested in hearing 18 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:53.920 more of these stories and learning more about the paranormal 19 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:56.719 and cryptids, make sure you check out the Untold Radio 20 00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:00.679 Network for all kinds of exciting shows. It's free subscribe. 21 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:04.439 So what are you waiting for visit www dot untold 22 00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:06.959 radionetwork dot com today. 23 00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:09.680 No one, are you reporting? I got a stream going 24 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:12.760 on here. Something just kid my dog, something killed your dog? 25 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:15.760 My dog. We're flying through there over the tree. I 26 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:21.079 don't know how it did it, Okay, damn, I'm really confused. 27 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:23.200 All I saw was my dog coming over the fence, 28 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:24.879 and the name was dead when you hit the ground. 29 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:26.719 I didn't have seen any cars. All I saw was 30 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:46.680 my dog coming over the fence. Are you reporting we 31 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:57.560 got some wonder or something crawling around out here? Did 32 00:01:57.599 --> 00:01:58.280 you see what it was? 33 00:01:58.400 --> 00:01:58.640 It was? 34 00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:00.920 It was seeing enough. I'm out here looking near the 35 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:02.799 window now and I don't need anything. I don't want 36 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:11.479 to go outside. Just fight. Hello, get the Boddy out here. 37 00:02:11.840 --> 00:02:14.039 Let quin on out. There's thought off a bit about 38 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:17.199 teching fort nine. I don't know. Easy Ann out there. Yeah, 39 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:19.120 I'm booking right, Hey, all. 40 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:20.719 Right, folks want to welcome my guest to the show. 41 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:25.680 It is author researcher Tom Powell. Welcome to the show, sir. 42 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:29.840 Thank you, and retired teacher there you go, the retired 43 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:32.400 science teacher. Correct, Yeah, that's right, that's right. 44 00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:34.800 Got to throw that in there, so let's start at 45 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:36.599 the very beginning. Tom, you and I were talking about 46 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:39.240 this right before we hit record. I want to start 47 00:02:39.319 --> 00:02:41.199 with the Bigfoot stuff. You've got a new book out 48 00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:43.919 Planet Strange that we're certainly going to get into talking about. 49 00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:46.159 But let's start in the very beginning where I start 50 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:48.400 with most people on the show, what in the world 51 00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:50.159 got you interested in Bigfoot? 52 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:50.639 To begin with? 53 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:54.159 As a teacher, I actually ridiculed it. I would do 54 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:57.240 a lesson about it on the throwaway day, like the 55 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:00.439 day before Christmas vacation. Out here on the West Staff, 56 00:03:00.520 --> 00:03:03.680 the class has already left for Maui or somewhere, so 57 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:05.680 I had to do some kind of thing to keep 58 00:03:05.719 --> 00:03:09.520 the kids busy out They're all wired on candy. The 59 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:12.919 school district did have the old Leonard Nimoy in search 60 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:16.800 of a movie that you could legitimately show kids watched 61 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:19.439 it and enjoy it. I made some jokes about it 62 00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:23.240 and used it as an example of pseudo science, just 63 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:26.240 a bunch of stories. It's not really science, but it's 64 00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:29.240 fun to think about what kind of thing kept the 65 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:32.319 kids' attention on a tough day. But I did not 66 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:35.520 in those days take it seriously. I did read books 67 00:03:35.599 --> 00:03:38.280 on it, and we had some local people like Peter Burne, 68 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:41.360 who were very much of presence in the news. But 69 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:45.039 then everything changed in the late eighties, when I moved 70 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:49.280 to rural Clackamous County outside of Portland, I found that 71 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:53.400 in this rural location there were neighbors of mine who said, 72 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:56.520 you know that Sasquatch thing, We actually have that out here, 73 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:00.680 So of course I please explain no full well that 74 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:04.400 I had ridiculed it for However many years already, one 75 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:07.360 thing led to another. I found these people's accounts to 76 00:04:07.400 --> 00:04:10.439 be credible. In some cases they were sightings. Then I 77 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:14.439 saw a little notice on a country store bulletin board 78 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:17.759 that had a bulletin by a guy who was researching 79 00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:21.879 and collecting local sightings. His name was Frank Kineister. I 80 00:04:22.360 --> 00:04:24.519 took down his number, called him up and said, the 81 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:27.079 main thing I'm looking for is some stuff to use 82 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:30.800 in my annual Bigfoot lesson. Do you have anything I 83 00:04:30.920 --> 00:04:34.000 could take in by way of visuals so it's just 84 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:36.879 not all talking in a movie. He loaned me some 85 00:04:37.079 --> 00:04:40.519 track casts and things that not only helped my lesson, 86 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:43.720 but it also at that point started to become compelling 87 00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:47.519 to me. Personally that these people were dead serious about 88 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:50.720 what they were describing. They weren't all a youngsters either. 89 00:04:50.839 --> 00:04:54.319 One guy was a career for service fellow who had 90 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:57.480 worked the counter when people came in wide eyed and 91 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:00.360 said what they saw while they were out there cutting. 92 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:02.959 He followed up on these stories and he found them 93 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:06.480 to be credible. So I started collecting them myself. Then 94 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:09.040 I got mixed up with Matthew money Maker when his 95 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:13.439 site was in its earliest days. He started shooting me 96 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:18.480 the local sightings that were uninvestigated. All of a sudden, 97 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:23.439 I was at times buried with sightings to investigate, especially 98 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:28.040 the days after a Art Bell appearance or something. When 99 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:32.439 those days it was just radio. But when art Bell 100 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:35.600 would have Moneymaker or one of these other guys on 101 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:39.279 Peter burn around, Moorehead or whoever, the website would be 102 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:45.199 inundated with fresh sightings, most of them outdated but stillmitted previously. 103 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:48.680 So I started going around and talking to these people. 104 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:51.879 In some cases they were people in my immediate area. 105 00:05:52.839 --> 00:05:55.439 One of the most interesting ones was in a small 106 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:58.439 town not very far from where I lived, Colton, Oregon's 107 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:01.480 about fifteen miles away. These people said, oh, yeah, we 108 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:04.879 see them, they take our honey from our bee hives. 109 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:07.920 The other thing they do is they raid our apple trees. 110 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:11.120 I said, how does that go? They said. We were 111 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:15.399 up one morning ready to travel early, having breakfast, sitting 112 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:18.560 and watching the sunrise. Here comes out of the woods 113 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:21.639 this form across the meadow that we're looking at. It 114 00:06:22.399 --> 00:06:26.439 stands under the apple tree upright, grabs the apple tree 115 00:06:26.519 --> 00:06:29.439 with both hands and shake the tree, and all the 116 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:33.360 fruit falls off the tree. Two more of these upright 117 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:36.959 beings emerged from the woods and gather up as many 118 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:41.480 apples as they could carry and disappear into the woods. Curiously. 119 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:45.040 When I first bought my property, the next door neighbor 120 00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:48.959 accused me of stealing his apples. I remember thinking that's 121 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:51.600 the craziest thing. Why would I risk getting shot over 122 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:54.879 a few pieces of fruit. But then somebody I worked 123 00:06:54.920 --> 00:06:57.839 with who knew him, had heard this story from him. 124 00:06:57.879 --> 00:07:01.600 He was complaining about his neighbor stealing his apples. She said, oh, 125 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:05.240 I tease with him. She told me this story, and 126 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:08.480 I said, why would I steal his two apples? She 127 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:12.279 said no. The whole tree got cleaned in one night bing. 128 00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:15.720 All of a sudden, the hop Cozon in my head 129 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:20.160 that he was describing the exact same thing that I 130 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:25.000 had encountered in one of these sighting reports. So that 131 00:07:25.720 --> 00:07:30.519 sort of gave me to understand that it's quite possible. 132 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:33.519 I know, I did not take his apple, and there 133 00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:36.360 was no one else who really had access to his 134 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:38.839 property because we're at the end of a small road. 135 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:42.079 All of a sudden, it led me to suppose that 136 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:46.879 this phenomenon not only seems more real than I ever expected, 137 00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:51.160 but that it is also more local than I ever expected. 138 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:55.439 I think, like most researchers, I started in one camp 139 00:07:55.879 --> 00:07:58.959 and I've ended up in another camp, and I teeter 140 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:01.680 her back and forth on most days. What was your 141 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:03.720 approach once you got to the point where you thought, Okay, 142 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:07.519 this is possibly a real phenomenon here, it's possibly people 143 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:10.560 are experiencing what they say they're experiencing, and you're looking 144 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:13.560 into these reports. Did you start out in a certain 145 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:15.399 camp and looking at these things a certain way? 146 00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:18.199 And how is that for sure? And those were the 147 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:22.560 days Rover Krantz was still alive, John Green, Peter Byrne, 148 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:28.319 and their message was fairly in line, and that was undiscovered. 149 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:33.000 Eight Meldrum was just young, but coming on the scene 150 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:35.960 becoming a distinguished voice in his own right, and he 151 00:08:36.559 --> 00:08:41.840 completely agreed with that message. So in those days, there 152 00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:46.480 was not a lot of other views that I was 153 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:50.320 aware of, but I did come to eventually meet Henry 154 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:53.480 Franzoni Rest his soul. We just lost Henry a few 155 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:59.039 weeks ago. He was one of the pioneers who was 156 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:03.840 able to confirmed what I was experiencing when I started 157 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:10.159 seeing reports from credible, serious people who were describing incredible 158 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:16.039 things within the context of the Sasquatch mystery, disappearing mind speak, 159 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:23.559 nonverbal communication, things that just were not taken curiously by 160 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:27.440 the powers that be, The four Horsemen, Green, the hand 161 00:09:27.519 --> 00:09:32.279 in Krantz, Peter Burne, they were very narrow in there thinking, 162 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:39.759 And meanwhile I was uncovering some paranormally inclined descriptions, specifically 163 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:43.840 people saying it just disappeared. It looked like a star 164 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:48.440 trek being me aboard. It was just gone, standing there 165 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:52.320 in the middle of a clearcut. And other guy's that 166 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:55.679 it walked behind the tree and it didn't come out 167 00:09:55.799 --> 00:09:59.440 the other side, so I assumed that it was behind 168 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:03.159 the tree. I walked toward the tree, and all of 169 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:05.919 a sudden, I got the EBGB. He said, don't come 170 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:08.600 one step closer if you know what's good for you. 171 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:12.639 Being a kind of a tough, macho dude. Anyway, he 172 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:16.080 did walk forward, but he said there was nothing behind 173 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:19.120 that tree. There didn't seem to be any other avenue 174 00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:22.080 for escape. So these are the kinds of things that 175 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:25.639 you get a lot. Another one is the mind speak 176 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:30.080 that woke me up. I had a camera project of 177 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:33.519 my own. I was very much working the flesh and 178 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:36.399 Blood angle. I was putting cameras in the woods at 179 00:10:36.519 --> 00:10:41.039 the promising locations, especially near Mount Rainier. This family had 180 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:44.759 a lot of this mind speak stuff happening to them, 181 00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:47.480 and they didn't really tell me about it for a 182 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:50.919 period of months. We had the cameras on their property 183 00:10:51.039 --> 00:10:55.000 for two years. When they finally came up with the stuff, 184 00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:58.799 I said, why didn't you tell me this sooner? They said, 185 00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:01.360 we didn't want me to think we were crazy. So 186 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:05.559 people hold back. It appears on some of the stranger 187 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:10.960 stuff that they are experiencing, especially when they sense that 188 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:15.720 the researcher is of one view. I opened up with 189 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:19.679 some of the weirder things that I was experiencing. They said, oh, yeah, 190 00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:22.799 we have that too. They had a whole bunch of stuff. 191 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:26.440 They take our chickens, they take our rabbits out of 192 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:29.600 the hutches. They can work the hatches, the catch on 193 00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:33.240 the hat, so they have manual decksterity. They seem to 194 00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:37.679 be most interested in my daughter because she's always on 195 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:42.279 horseback and she's always rescuing injured animals. They seem to 196 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:47.480 resonate with her empathy toward animals. Another one was in Oklahoma. 197 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:51.440 They were recording the freezer. They had an outdoor freezer 198 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:54.320 which was getting raided at night. They were sure that 199 00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:58.120 was because of these sasquatches. They didn't like it one bit. 200 00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:00.879 They were very afraid of them, and they were concerned 201 00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:03.399 that the things were messing with the screen window and 202 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:06.080 pulling the screen off the window, and they took that 203 00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:07.879 to mean that thing was trying to get in the house. 204 00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:11.279 So they actually took a shot at it. They felt 205 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:16.559 that they had hit it, so Matthew Moneymaker dispatched a crew. 206 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:20.120 This was all in the locals back in the early 207 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:24.120 two thousand's, the first book I published. But before they 208 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:26.360 got there, there was a rainstorm and all the blood 209 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:29.000 washed away. But they felt like they had blood on 210 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:32.120 the ground. In hindsight, Matt should have probably told him 211 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:34.440 to collect some of the blood. Instead, he said, don't 212 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:37.200 touch it, just leave it there. My crew will arrive, 213 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:41.480 and well before his crew could arrive, the weather washed 214 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:46.240 it away. Even stuff like that has a pattern to it, 215 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:49.200 even if it goes back as far as the Native 216 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:52.679 American lord. There are some tribes who have a name 217 00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:57.159 for the Sasquatch that translates literally into he who makes 218 00:12:57.240 --> 00:13:02.240 the wind blow. So there you go. Now we're getting paranormal. Yeah, 219 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:03.600 and tell you that's what's happened to me. 220 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:07.279 The more people that I've interviewed over the years doing 221 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:09.679 the show, we're over five hundred episodes at this point, 222 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:14.879 so many people have so many weird scenarios that happen, 223 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:17.600 sometimes while they're having bigfoot activity. 224 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:19.480 Sometimes it's right before or right after. 225 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:22.159 I used to compartmentalize that I was a police officer, 226 00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:25.320 so my cop brain puts things into boxes, and I'd say, Okay, yeah, 227 00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:28.039 you're having weird lights and orbs and all these strange 228 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:30.480 things going on, and you've got bigfoot on the property. 229 00:13:30.519 --> 00:13:34.159 But those things are probably mutually exclusive. But the more 230 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:35.240 I've talked to people. 231 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:36.159 Over these years. 232 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:39.639 It seems less and less that it's mutually exclusive, and 233 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:43.399 it all seems to be somewhat connected. Here's the thing 234 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:45.399 that I want to ask you. You've done this for 235 00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:47.879 so many years, and you've been on both sides of 236 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:49.639 the fence, so to speak. This is the thing that 237 00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:52.200 I have a hard time rationalizing my brain, and maybe 238 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:54.000 you can help me with this. I'm pretty much in 239 00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:57.159 the flesh and blood camp. I'm open minded to other things. 240 00:13:57.559 --> 00:13:59.440 Cliff's a good friend of mine. I know you're friends 241 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:01.600 with Cliff. Cliff and I are pretty much in the 242 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:04.759 same cloth as far as what we believe about these creatures. 243 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:08.080 Yet these strange things happen. So let me ask you, 244 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:10.679 how do you deal with this as an investigator and 245 00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:14.840 a researcher looking into this. If these things are possibly 246 00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:17.840 more than what we know them to be, there's something 247 00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:21.480 paranormal or something out of this world that we're not 248 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:25.720 connecting here. They're disappearing and all these weird things, yet 249 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:28.639 they're doing very flesh and blood things. How do you 250 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:31.519 deal with the fact that we could be dealing with 251 00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:35.080 a paranormal entity here that bleeds in each chickens and 252 00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:38.320 does all the things that seem to be very flesh 253 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:40.559 and blood. How have you been able to deal with 254 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:44.399 that in your research? I guess just by a maintaining 255 00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:48.720 an open mind, be not wasting my time trying to 256 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:53.559 change anyone's mind. Trying to convert someone to a different 257 00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:57.559 way of thinking is usually a fool varrnt. Instead, I 258 00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:03.200 just say it guys like, hey, do you pursue your angle. 259 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:06.039 I'll pursue my angle. Let trade notes. 260 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:09.799 Stay tuned for more sasquatch out to sea. We'll be 261 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:12.080 right back after these messages. 262 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:17.559 At the end of the day about what you're getting. 263 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:22.799 Applaud anyone who has the enthusiasm for putting cameras in 264 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:27.200 the woods, because I feel it's a low return proposition. 265 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:29.759 I think I would almost go so far as to say, 266 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:36.840 no bigfoot researcher has ever gotten a persuasive image after 267 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:42.919 Patterson and Gimlin, or almost no. I think Paul Freeman 268 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:48.759 might qualify. I think Paul's video is legit, But in 269 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:54.120 modern times, post two thousand, it seems like they're very 270 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:59.679 much aware of our attempts to photograph them. They're very 271 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:04.360 much opposed to that. What happens is the cameras are disconnected, 272 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:07.799 the cameras are pulled off the tree, the cameras lenses 273 00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:11.960 covered with leaves, the batteries are drained. The cameras are 274 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:16.120 never taken, the cameras are never destroyed, but they're put 275 00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:19.600 out a service in a way that is most peculiar 276 00:16:19.720 --> 00:16:23.240 but actually quite consistent. I remember going around with Cliff 277 00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:26.200 and checking his camera line once. He had about five 278 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:30.960 cameras scattered around in the Sandy River drainage. We hit 279 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:33.279 all five sites in one day, and at each site, 280 00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:37.120 as we approached the camera, which wasn't really on a trail, 281 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:39.200 but there was a way to approach it that he 282 00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:43.320 had been using all along. Each time we approached the 283 00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:47.200 camera there was an X made out of a couple 284 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:51.039 of sick great foot sticks, just leaning there in the 285 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:55.000 shape of an X. And I said, about the fourth 286 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:58.120 time we got to a camera and hey was the X? 287 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:01.200 I said, Cliff, are you seeing the is in what 288 00:17:01.399 --> 00:17:04.039 I go? There's an EX. It's like something is saying 289 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:09.119 don't go here. The approach is marked with the cross too. 290 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:12.359 And Cliff patted me on the head and said, oh, Tom. 291 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:19.079 Trees fall out of the wood patterns don't jump to conclusions. Okay, 292 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:23.680 but it's funny how each one of your cameras it's 293 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:27.079 almost as if it's marked, what depends on what you're 294 00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:31.319 looking for. Cliff did not find it compelling, but to 295 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:36.640 me it was almost unmistakable. So anyway, there's an example 296 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:39.319 of well, just everybody do it their way, and then 297 00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:42.319 we'll get together at these conferences or over a beer 298 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:46.680 and we'll see what we're getting. But once I did 299 00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:50.440 manage to sit down with Henry friend Zoni, his line was, 300 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:54.400 I can't tell you what's going on because it's too strange. 301 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:58.079 You got to figure it out for yourself. I finally 302 00:17:58.119 --> 00:17:59.920 said to him, all right, Henry, here's what I think. 303 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.079 I know. They know we're coming. They do have communication. 304 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:07.519 They are every bit as astute as we are. They 305 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:12.920 have the ability to render themselves somehow not seeable when 306 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:19.799 they desire. He once again patted Muney, very good job. Yeah, 307 00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:22.960 we're coming along. So it just went on from there. 308 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:27.440 I ran into these horse whisperer types who feel they 309 00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:31.519 have communication with other animal species. Most of their work 310 00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:35.079 is done in veterinary circles with trying to determine subtle 311 00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:39.279 medical horse conditions and things like that, and they feel 312 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:41.799 like they can get to the bottom of it with 313 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:46.279 a form of communication that is nonverbal. There are writers 314 00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:50.519 who have investigated this. One of them is Rupert Sheldrake, 315 00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:56.880 who's an English author. He has several books on interspecies communication. 316 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:01.880 He makes a very compelling case. These horse whisperer types 317 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:06.119 usually say I can do other animals. So then I 318 00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:09.680 put one of them, Steve Fredericks, to work on our 319 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:13.920 camera site. I asked Steve to ask them to please 320 00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:16.319 step in front of the camera. He came back to 321 00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:18.240 me and he said, all right, I did what she said. 322 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:22.680 They didn't seem to like what I was asking for, 323 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:26.680 but I did convey the message. Again, no way to 324 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:31.160 confirm this stuff. It's all juju. It's wu total wu. 325 00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:34.880 Less than forty eight hours after Steve did this, we 326 00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:39.039 got our best camera image in two years. It was 327 00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:43.000 more of a shadow profile than a full on image. 328 00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:47.519 But without telling the residents what I was doing by 329 00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:51.200 way of putting a communicator to work, I did not 330 00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:54.079 mention that to Alan in April the residence. Less than 331 00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:57.480 forty eight hours later, they called back and said, we 332 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:00.960 just got an image. So I sped up to the site. 333 00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:03.319 I looked at the image. I knew that it was 334 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:08.480 not compelling, but it was decent head and shoulders. It 335 00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:10.680 was almost like a shadow puppet, but it was just 336 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:14.839 the shadow moving across the beam of the infrared illuminator. 337 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:17.680 Then I went back to Steve Fredericks and I said, Steve, 338 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:20.920 I want you to ask for a bone. And he said, oh, Tom, 339 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:24.119 And I said, just do it, Steve. He's okay, I'll 340 00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:26.720 do it. I did not tell Alan. In April. Once again, 341 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:29.359 within forty eight hours, they called me up on the 342 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:31.480 phone and said, we just got a bone at the 343 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:33.960 foot of the camera tree. It looks like about a 344 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:37.680 shape of a coffee saucer. It's very thick. I went 345 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:39.359 up and got the bone. I took it to a 346 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.559 wild life biologist. He said, it's a bird bone, but 347 00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:44.279 I do not know what kind of bird. It must 348 00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:48.440 be a very large bird given this coffee saucer shaped 349 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:52.119 disk of bone. Then I did some research and I 350 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:54.960 found a farmer near me who was raising emrus and 351 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:57.640 I showed the bone to him and he pulled out 352 00:20:57.720 --> 00:20:59.880 a reference text and he was able to match it 353 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.480 perfectly with the breastbone of an emu. So I went 354 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:06.119 back to Allen in April. I said, do you have 355 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:07.440 any EMUs around here? 356 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:07.720 No? 357 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:10.440 I said, are there any nearby? And I said, yeah, 358 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:13.119 my dad raises EMUs. Well, where does he live five 359 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:16.039 miles away? Do you have any explanation for how an 360 00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:18.960 emu bone got from your dad's house five miles away 361 00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:23.759 to hear? I said, no, we don't. To me if 362 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:27.119 you connect the dot, I feel like we're being played with. 363 00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:30.720 They're just toying with us. They're not going to give 364 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:34.279 us what we asked for. It was an audacious thing 365 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:37.599 to ask for a bone. But when I finally went 366 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:40.200 back to Steve Fredericks and told him the whole story, 367 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:43.200 because I didn't tell Steve we were getting results because 368 00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:46.200 I didn't want to feed the flames with anything. That 369 00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:50.319 what made him double down on his claims of communication. 370 00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:53.240 So I kept him out of the loop until finally 371 00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:56.279 we ended the project and I told him everything, and 372 00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:58.599 he said, he hit himself on this on the side 373 00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:02.000 of the head, and he said, I never actually said 374 00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:08.839 a sas watch bone. So interestingly, but curiously, it's almost 375 00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:12.400 like they're playing us for fools, but they're also to 376 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:15.480 use a phrase. They're throwing us a bone. They're not 377 00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:18.359 giving us what we want, but they're just giving us 378 00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:21.559 just enough to have a sense of humors about what 379 00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:24.759 they're doing. I just keep coming back to that they're 380 00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:26.799 not going to dig up one of their relatives and 381 00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:30.359 provide us with part of their remains anymore than we're 382 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:34.039 gonna do that, But they will keys us, toy with us, 383 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:38.880 test our ability to think the next thought. Let's talk about. 384 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:41.359 Something that has really fascinated me through my journey with 385 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:47.799 Bigfoot is habituation situations where people have repeated experiences. I 386 00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:50.839 guess if it's habituation, it's more of a personal thing. 387 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:53.240 They're coming back to the same properties over and over. 388 00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:55.559 How many times have you dealt with that over the 389 00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:58.519 course of your research and what have you found or 390 00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:00.880 have you found anything that's stuck out to you over 391 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:04.160 the years about habituation situations, whether it be with the 392 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:07.720 Sasquatch or the people that are experiencing it Alan. 393 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:09.759 In April Hoyt, the people I was talking about with 394 00:23:09.799 --> 00:23:13.240 the cameras were the first people that I was able 395 00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:17.640 to pick their brain, and they were definitely having repeat encounter. 396 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:20.960 They had some logging going on in their immediate vicinity, 397 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:23.960 and the reason they came clean with the bigfoot activity 398 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:27.079 they were having was because they were hoping to somehow 399 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:30.240 save enough of the woods that these creatures wouldn't disppear, 400 00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.279 because they rather enjoyed the interaction and they understood it 401 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:36.279