Speaker 1: What is up, Fellowsiko's I Am Dana Valley coming at
you with He had another twenty twenty four to twenty
twenty five NBA book ahead. We were onto the Boston Celtics,
which means I had the pleasure of being joined by
Bobby Manning, who covers the Celtics for CNLS. He's also
the co host of the Garden Report podcast. He contributes
to the Boston Sports Journal as well as the Celtics
as well as Celtics bog subtimes, so he's doing a
whole lot. Does it really well, had a great time
picking his brain about not just his coming season for
the Celtics, but kind of looked at what happened last
year and also just moving forward long term after all
the investments that they made. So fantastic discussion. I think
you will enjoy it. Please remember, if you've not done
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posts that can help as well. With that out of
the way, though, let's get to talking lots and lots
of Celtics with Bobby Manning. Bobby, thank you so much
for coming back on to the HARVARDOS podcast. For this
year is Boston Celtics look Ahead. This is your number
two for you, so I appreciate you coming back after
the first time. How the heck are you doing, sir good.
Speaker 2: It's great to be back and I'm ready to get going.
This off season's been nice, calm long. I think it's
been ten weeks now since the championship, so I'm ready
to get going again. I think things are going to
start picking up here with less than a month from
training camp start in which I think is the twenty fourth.
Ish thinks you're going to start a little bit earlier
than some other teams, so I'm looking forward to that.
They got their preseason trip tab and an interesting training
camp cast characters here too, so we'll get in all that.
Speaker 1: The Olympics basketball is completely just the Olympics in general
is completely thrown off my off season timeline. I have
just no sense of how closet training camps and preseason
and regular season basketball is anymore. The Celtics won the title, though,
but I think the biggest storyline coming out of that
as I heard that you were in the parade, So
what was what was that experience?
Speaker 2: Like, Yeah, it was a pleasant surprise. I wasn't anticipating
being able to And we did have a spot. Our
videographer from it, who was amazing, was supposed to go
in there and you know, take videos and just document
the whole thing. And we were like, all right, let's
see if they have two spots. So finding the trucks,
it was basically the back of a flatbed pickup truck
that was going to be at the front of the parade.
It was tough because the sidewalks were just filled completely
with every people. There was that little celebration thing they
did in the garden before, But after a certain point
we were in the garden and we were like, all right,
we got to find out where the parades leaving from.
And I didn't even know where we're going to be
on a duck boat, where we're going to be on
a truck, Like we ended up being. So we finally
found the trucks and I was just standing there waiting
because our videographer got into his spot. They obviously told
me they didn't have one for me, and I just
stood around for a few minutes, felt out the situation.
They told me to go over to, you know, watch
the trucks moving out, and I was going to do that,
and I was like, wait, let me see if there's
an open spot, or if I can walk with the
parade or something like that. So I stood by the
trucks for a few more minutes. I saw an open
spot and I was like, all right, let me just
jump in. So I jumped in. The guy came back
over and was like, all right, I appreciate you doing that,
but if if someone if that person comes, you're out.
So I was like, all right, it seems like it
was getting pretty close to starting, but you know, fifteen
minutes go by and then all of a sudden, the
confetti starts shooting and we start moving. I'm like, oh,
all right, here we go. So it was amazing. The
wall of sound. I think Brad Stevens talked about it
on Causeway was unreal. My truck, my videographer was in
a different one in front of Tatum, I think, but
my truck was in front of Joe, who I think
was the most eccentric character in the whole parade, standing
up on it and just screaming and yelling, going crazy.
So we got to see the whole route, got to
see the fans on both sides. We still have the
videos up on Sealing this Media if people want to
see it, because it's an amazing view. We have like
the full length video of just driving through and people
on both sides for miles and just going through that
part of the city. Obviously the heart of the city
there in Boston was unreal. That was Yeah, that was
a lifelong, unique experience. Really lucky to be able to
experience it, And yeah, I think that's like one of
a kind. That was. Yeah, that's something you dream of
for sure.
Speaker 1: I don't think I would have had the gall to
just like see the open spot and go take it.
So kudos to you for just having like the guts
to like step in there and be like, let's just
see what happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's one of those things where you're like,
all right, this is this is like once in a
lifetime opportunities, you just gotta go take it. Maybe it
doesn't work, but you got to try in that spot.
And obviously if I didn't do it, that seat would
have just been sitting open. So I'm glad I did.
Speaker 1: You did. Look honestly, you helped the product because it
would just little what looked weird if there's an empty
spot for this Boston.
Speaker 2: Right, Great, Yeah, we got some video and all that too.
So yeah, you know, and our big thing with Cel
and US is taking the fans inside the coverage, the
back you know, round of what's going on inside the
team and just what you can see being around the
team day to day. So we got full length video
of the parade from the parade, and I think that's
really valuable for fans. I think, you know, tens of
thousands of people got to see that. So yeah, that
was I'm thrilled that our parade coverage went the way
it did because things were so crazy that day. Yeah,
you had no clue what you were going to be
able to do. In fact, when we had our meetings
and stuff going in about how we were going to
cover it, our boss was basically just like, don't exp
to do anything because things just might not work. And honestly,
everything we dreamed and imagined that day of being able
to do some man on the street stuff, some coverage
from inside the parade, and merch giveaways and all kinds
of stuff, it all worked perfectly, which given the chaotic
nature that day, I don't know were you there? Were
you able to go?
Speaker 1: No? I was not there.
Speaker 2: It was nuts. Yeah, the whole city was filled. I
think they said what two point five million or something
like that. It felt every bit like that. And so
if you weren't in the parade route like we were
able to be, me and a met, you weren't going
to be able to move at all. So you basically
were going to get one fixed position of the parade
going by and that was it because they were just
countless people on every step of the way. In fact,
when the parade ended and they dropped us off at
the end, we had to walk back to the garden,
which was funny. But they dropped us off at the end,
there were still people lined up towards Fenway like blocks
from where the parade actually ended. So yeah, it was
overflowing with people on the whole route.
Speaker 1: I think the next step is we need to get
you in like we've seen the videos of the Hornets
and the Sons that they released me to get you
in the Celtics draft war room or maybe for them
like the trade deadline war room, because their draft picks
are probably gonna be pretty boring for the next few years.
But that should be the next thing. They should let
you in there for that.
Speaker 2: That would be cool. I think it's a little too
inside to have that kind of access. Usually on draft
night we're like in the room next door, so you see,
especially the day before them setting up all the phones
and we're next door and don't have access to what's
going on inside during that time. But that would be cool.
I don't think we'd be able to record stuff. I
know they let people in the lottery room too, another
thing you can't record. You can't reveal what happened. But
they'll have a certain number of reporters in the lottery room,
and that's going on for the draft and get you
got to find out early who won, but no one
else does and you can't share it until it comes out.
So I don't know what the value is in that beyond.
Speaker 1: They confiscate everything before you go in that room. I
would kill to be in the draft lottery room just
to see, like the live reactions from the executives when
the like the better in the.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess, yeah, you could share that after, I guess.
But beyond that, you're you just you know it. The
rest of the world's waiting and you can't put it
out there.
Speaker 1: Celtics won a championship, won sixty four games as well.
What was just a year before the championship, what was
just your biggest takeaway from or the thing that stood
out most about this team from last season.
Speaker 2: They never stumbled. They had maybe one or two moments
where you're like, ooh, that wasn't a great loss, but
then they got up from it every time and then
went on that run of consistency that pretty much lasted
from start to finish. I'd say their ability to sustain injuries.
They had a ridiculous record with pretty much every guy
out except for Derek White. Multiple guys would be down
and they'd still win games. Porzingis ended up down for
almost the entirety of the playoffs and they went sixteen
and three on their way of the title. So that consistency,
I think the focus attention and detail everyone had to
their roles. Given that this team came together in one
year almost in an eight fashion, right, it just clicked
immediately and everybody played well together. Everybody shined in their role.
No one did too much top to bottom, And I
think that's a credit to Joe Mizzoula, who I think
surprised everybody with his effectiveness on both sides of the
ball into year two. And he became obviously a star
in his own role on this team too. So those
three things I'd say surprised me the most. The depth
shining on this team. The bench ended up being effective
until the late stages of the NBA Finals. Normally those
guys drop off, and he had questions about guys off that.
Speaker 1: Ben getting some stops too in those moments.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think he hit eleven threes in the finals,
so ridiculous series for him. Pritchard had his moments, Cornette
and Tilman both had playoff moments. Even Prisette played a
role in winning a playoff game. So the depth of
this team I think shined better than you could have imagined.
What lended to their consistency the dominant fashion of the
run through the regular season, win the East by fifteen games,
then just rolling through the playoffs, and then the coaching.
The coaching just left up in a way that I
think surprised everybody this year. It wasn't a great first
year from Missoula. I was on the fence about keeping them,
but I said, if they believe in them, I think
all the excuses from year one were valid, and they
believed in them. They kept them, and all the excuses
were valid because once he had a staff, once he
had time, and once he was able to institute on
a deeper level the things he wanted to do. He
showed to be one of the best coaches in the
league this year. So that's going to be another strength
with them going forward.
Speaker 1: What is it about this team though, And even I
talked to you about my concerns with them last year
where it felt like we were conditions and I'm not
saying you specifically, but conditioned to doubt them or everyone's
looking for the holes and why they couldn't win the title,
and then you look back at what they did, like
maybe there was reasons they did turn It is rare
you see them. They traded like three of their top
six rotation players last all season and then all this
season they go and win a title. That feels to
have that little turnover and then win is fairly rare.
But what is it about them specifically where it just
felt like I look back on them now as sort
of this generational team that just wasn't appreciated the moment
because they had You look at all the numbers, they
the fourth highest combined net rating through the playoffs and
regular season of the past like fifty years. Is there
anything specific about this team though that kind of comments,
like that doubt that we saw, you know, not that
they needed to be deemed inevitable, but it just didn't
seem like they had the respect of like a juggernaut,
even as they won sixty four games in the regular season.
Speaker 2: I think it's the fact that their stars hadn't proven
themselves yet and those guys had weaknesses in their game
Brown and Tatum that led to playoff losses in the past.
Too much focus on isolation, too much settling, not enough
playmaking chops, even though they dominated the ball for the
most part for the offense and the team around them
changed quite a bit, but you still looked at those
two stars and said, all right, are the old version
of these guys gonna come about when there's a big
situation or a playoff setting, or just a moment that
ends up too big for them. And those guys leveled
up in a way. And back to my point about
the roles on the team, there was some doubt about
Jalen Brown's role on the team. Is he going to
be involved consistently? Is he going to work in this
new setup alongside Porzingis and Holiday and other guys who
were going to have the ball? And he settled nicely
into that transition finisher, break the defense open kind of role,
playing off the ball more than one and that worked
perfectly for him to the point of being a Finals MVP.
And you know, he got involved in the little things
like the defense and the rebounding and all of that too.
So I think those guys showed a greater adaptability this year.
They relied on the new pieces around them, didn't try
to do too much themselves, kept the ball popping, and
Tatum leveled up as a passer. Tatum out of struggles
in the playoffs, I know we're going to get to
him to the point where he could have an eleven
assist game in the clincher with the defense and swarming them.
And this is after the finals run where he broke
the playoff turnover record. I think his playoff assisted turnover
it was like seven to two in the end, something
like that, seven to three. So those guys leveled out,
but more importantly, they showed an adaptability and a willingness
to rely on their teammates, trust their teammates, and obviously
the supporting cast around them leveled up to a point
where they were dominant. You didn't have any weaknesses on offense,
you didn't have any guys you could ignore, and then
on defense there was no one really to attack. And
then included some of the guys off the bench, so
they shared up their weaknesses so much between the stars,
between the supporting cast. Then it made them bulletproof in
a way that didn't seem sure. Going into the year,
you wondered if fran Tatum were going to be consistent
the coaching obviously where they two reliant on threes, was
the defense going to be up to par where it
was two years ago. Those things came through and then
you had the depth. It was enough depth here could
you rely on a top six that was that front loaded,
but they ended up having seven, eight, maybe even nine
guys some nights who could give you something. And again,
we're super effective in their roles. Everybody knew what they
needed to do on this team. There wasn't any uncertainty.
I think Al Horford Derek White talked about that during
the year, and then everybody knew what they needed to
do on each possession too. Like my favorite quote of
the year was Derek White saying, we have all the answers,
we just have to be able to get to them.
And that goes back to the coaching.
Speaker 1: When you look at their offseason, everything they did in
a vacuum is a singular move you just do without
even thinking. The Jason Tatum extension, the Derek White extension,
even the Sam Hawser extension. But when you waive them
collectively and look at how much money this team is
going to cost moving forward projected to be and by
the way, they did extend Drewale right before last season ended. Anyway,
this is going to cost a ton of money. And
so you juxtaposed that against all these other teams that
are kind of operating in fear of the second apron penalties,
and I know just the potential sale of the team
could maybe factor into this, and maybe it's sort of
a we'll figure it out when it matters approach. But
does it say anything that they gave out all of
these steeper, multi year commitments to keep this core together
where I think a lot of people view all these
title cores in terms of, oh, it's going to be
a year by year basis on how they're going to
keep together, And it just feels like with the number
of deals they've given out over the past like six months,
eight months, whatever, it is that this is a team
that's at least prepared to float another two years of
this exact core with the like the financial outlay that
is going to cost them. Is that the accurate read
on the situation or is it more of a well,
there's sign these guys and you just figure it out
as you go.
Speaker 2: I think you go year by year for sure. I
think that's how they're going to handle it. You allow
yourself the maximum opportunity to contend by locking up those
guys long term, and at the very least you have
options if you need to pivot financially in the near term,
and obviously new ownership will dictate that their ability to
maintain that salary year to year. It's going to get
enormous in twenty twenty six, to the point where you
don't think at least the current cast of owners on
the team can maintain that maybe for one year, but again,
it's going to be historic. And my curiosity is going
to be if they do need to pivot, if they
do need to adjust, how are they going to do it?
Because obviously there's dollar for dollar trade matching. Now is
there enough suitors around the league to take on money
if you want to offload it. I was very curious
how that was going to go this summer because you
looked at some teams that were pushing that Apron. Phoenix
pretty much held on to their guys Minnesota. You thought
Towns might move there. No one took him on, no
major money move. And when you look at all these
players on the Celtics, there's major money at every spot.
So how you're going to go about off well in that event?
I think the most straightforward way it would happen is
once Porzingis's deal expires, you just let him off the
books and that saves you thirty at that point, and
then you look at Holiday who I still think even
as he hits thirty four here still enormously valuable. That
contract's going to look better each year as the cap rises.
So I think you just go year by year with
those guys, and you know, twenty twenty six, Porzingis comes
off the books after that first super expensive year Holiday.
At that point, you know, what do you make of
his situation? Horford, It's not an enormous break, but his
ten comes off the books after this year. So I
think that's how it's going to go. And that's how
it went for most teams this summer, right KCP and
Denver they just let him walk. Other guys in situations
I can't think of any of the top of my head.
I guess the Clippers with George to some degree, they
just let him walk. So I think the most straightforward
way for teams to get off money is going to
be letting them going free agency. And you used to
have sign and trades and all that maybe could recoup
a little bit, but the biggest benefit now I'm losing
a guy is it's going to get you down under
that second apron and that's going to make a challenging
from a team building standpoint that you can't recoup assets
when guys walk, but that's going to allow for a
more competitive and balanced league. And you know, you might
look at the Celtics as the last super team here.
They got in ahead of these new rules and stacked
their roster and they're gonna feel the heat of those rules,
but they're gonna have a good year two or three
here where they're going to be at the peak of contention.
And what's gonna happen after that tough to tell. But
fortunately you have Brown locked up, you've Tatum locked up,
and if those guys continue to grow, they might be
able to do more with less. And that's the plan
they're on right now.
Speaker 1: Looking at the actual next season. And I'm assuming I
know the answer to this question, but what is the
biggest storyline that you're kind of tracking for this team
as they head into twenty twenty four twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: It's it's the Porzingis injury. Obviously, that's a massive one.
I don't think enough has been made about it.
Speaker 1: They had a until like twenty twenty like and it's
just like, oh, he'll be re evaluated in six months.
When that came out that like puts him back at
like the reevaluation like late December, right, and it just
you're right, it feels like it's not I don't know
if it's because their record without him last year was
so good, but it feels like it hasn't been or
I mean they did win the how many games did
he play in during their playoff run?
Speaker 2: He was like three or four? Four? Yeah, right, yeah,
so that's a big one. I they have the pieces
to sustain it. I'd be much more worried about it
if they didn't keep Tillman, which was the surprise of
the summer. They were able to get him two years
at the minimum, So I think he's going to be
a major piece in how they sustain because Cornett. I'm
the biggest Cornett fan going, but there are matchups where
he can't play. So that you have a Tillman who
basically has the opposite steel set of Cornett defensively, that's
huge and he needs to take some steps. I think
his fit was a little awkward last year. He ended
up having a big moment in the finals, but he's
going to be crucial. You have options at that spot.
I do wish Prissette was back in that mix a
little bit too. He was a guy who can let
you play a little smaller. But you got Anton Watson,
who I actually think has a shot if what we
saw in some league translates to maybe playing when they're
super shorthanded, and then you have Horford at that point
of attack, which is gonna be the big one, right
because I was looking last week, he played thirty minutes
a game when Porzingis was out there in the regular season.
Obviously he's gonna play thirty forty minutes in the playoffs
with Porzengis out. But during this regular season, where you're
probably trying to scale them back even more, not playing
back to backs, You're gonna have some situations where Porzengis,
many situations where Porzingis and Horford are out, both of them.
So how do you sustain in those situations? Do you
have enough depth at that spot? Through some of the
performances among those centers, the depth centers of surprise I
think across the board. Even Cato last year was effective
in his spots. Do those carry into this year or
A You're gonna take a little bit of a step
back in the regular season, and how much does that matter,
And that goes to the second story I'm tracking, which
is the hangar over effect. How much of the commitment
to the roles that we saw last year carries over
to this year? Is there any relaxing? Is there any fatigue?
I think that goes hand in hand with the Porzingis thing.
Speaker 1: How do you see I guess who do you think
ends up picking up the most slack in part of
that secondary front court rotation? I know you mentioned Tilman.
Are many fascinated by Cata like I feel like he's
shown some very interesting stuff defensively, especially on the perimeter.
Do you like, like, how do you just sort of
see them like managing that? Who you think winds up
playing the bigger role? I mean in cordnet of courses
and they already mentioned him just in that secondary front
line rotation, especially during that time that Porzingis is out.
Speaker 2: I think on the average night, Cornette will step into
the backup spot and they'll play him secondary minutes. That
worked great last year in most matchups you could put
Tilman in for some four minutes to play bigger. I
know they love playing bigger, and they went to that
Horford Tilman combination quite a bit. In the bench units
last year. That's going to require that one of them
spaces the floor effectively. Horford's been able to do that,
and then that puts Tillman close to the basketball. I
think he's going to be more effective. They had him
in the corner a lot last year, shooting a lot
of threes. I don't he needs to do it to
be a threat, but I don't think that's where he's
at his best. I'd like to see him playing more
of that center role in horford spacing if they're going
to play together. So I think all three of those
guys are going to factor in, but again, they'll be
nice where Horford's out, and that's when I think you
see Kada and I was intrigued by what I saw
from him at Summer League. Again, the finishing needs to
be a little more consistent when he gets his opportunities
in there, but the rebounding's great. The defense is coming along,
and they, which was my biggest takeaway from Summer League,
tinkered with some different looks that suited him better out there.
They changed up their defense a little bit to make
him more comfortable. I think they moved him off ball
off some weaker offensive players, moved them away from the
five to be more of a help guy, and that
worked well out there. He was able to block some shots,
able to take up space in the lane, and like
you said, he's a guy who can stand on the
perimeter in spots against certain guys. So I think that's
going to be the sweet spot for him this year.
And again, you could play him at the five next
to Horford if you want to play bigger. So he's underrated.
He was a great get last summer. I was so
thrilled when they sign him, and then he ended up
showing everything he was capable of in those spots. There's
still some weaknesses in his game. He's not the best defender.
His finishing I think has to be closer to seventy
percent rather than sixty or below. So that is going
to be the key for him, is making the most
of those minutes, and he did last year. So I
believe in all those guys. There's depth there, there's numbers,
there's a variety of skill sets. The porzingis injury was
going to be a bigger problem if you lost one
of those guys, and the fact that they kept Cornet
at the minimum tell them at the minimum, and then
you get Cayden sort of that howserd deal that they
signed him to after they got him on the two way,
they could keep him inner control for three years. That
is really good. They're in a great position there at
the five despite Porzingis being out.
Speaker 1: I normally use his time to go in detail on
like specific players, but the Celtics have so many just
known commodities on the ross that these questions just they're
the eleven of ten no notes team basically this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what makes.
Speaker 1: Jason Tatum so divisive?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: Like the whole this was the team USA discourse was
off the rails, but like this has been something that's
been brewing, Like obviously not through the lens of his
what Steve Kerr doing or should he be playing? But
what makes him such a divisive star again on a
national scale for sure?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I think I've been trying to
figure that out too. Maybe the fact that he plays
for the Celtics and everyone who's not a Celtics fan
isn't crazy about the Celtics. Some people are, but for
the most part, whether it's Lakers fans, heat fans, Nicks
all the way down, the line. People don't love the
Celtics league wide for a number of different reasons. Number two,
I think he's a little boring, not as flashy as
some of these other stars. I think it showed most
in that whole Edwards Tatum discussion that almost became the
finals became a little bit of a thing on the
US team too, who is going to be that secondary
wing and Edwards ended up taking it. He, I think,
is the more forceful, willing to assert himself or demanding
of asserting himself, and the bigger personality obviously between the
two players, and for Tatum, more low key, more reserved,
and more conciliatory in his approach. I think, like we
talked about earlier, his power through that whole run was
his passing, and he deferred and he utilized the guys
around him, and he didn't have the best individual performance
on the way of the championship, but it was super effective.
And so I don't want to compare him to Duncan
because I don't think there's any comparison there, But in
terms of the way he affects the game, at least
on this last run, it was more Duncan esque in
terms of you have a ton of skills, you have
this width of impact, so rely on doing a little
bit of everything rather than mastering one, especially scoring, and
that was what he did coming into the league. It's
what he did three four years ago, and so people
had that image of him, and it looks like that's
taking a decline, even though it's just been more him
spreading himself out in terms of how he's impacting the game.
So I think there's an analytical approach with him that
he's taken on too, and that's frustrated even Celtics fans.
How many threes he's shooting, how few mid rangers he's
going to. I think that can throw his rhythm a
little bit off too. If people are cutting off part
of his game at the rim or outside, the three
point shot is certainly super inconsistent for him. So yeah,
there's some niche you can pick in his game. He's
not the best player in the league, and I think
that's part of it here too, is he's aspiring to
get there. Some Celtics fans or fans of him think
he is, but he's not quite there yet. So you're
really drilling on the things with the parts of his
game that are preventing him from getting to that spot,
and will you ever get there? Maybe he's only twenty
seven this year, this is the time for that, This
is go time for that. Right next three years here
can he get to that top echelon of the league.
But he's right there, and he has a width of impact,
as I keep saying that no other player at that
top level has maybe be honest, but Jannest can't shoot threes.
So the width of his impact is what I think
his power is. So in some ways, he's what you know,
master or none. Right, He's he's got all of these
different skills, but he isn't at the top echelon of
any of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love the phrasing of the width of
his impact. It does seem I feel like I'd be
more receptive to it if people were focusing on what
felt like legitimate criticism, like the you know, kind of
being a erratic on the off the dribble, three point
shots that become too much of a crutch at times.
But it never seems to be focused there. I also
wonder if any of this is sort of long standing
blowback from he just came into the league and was
so good and there might have been at times a
rush to coordinate him to be in the same conversation
as other top five to ten guys in the league,
and so did that condition people to doubt him? Or
is this just you know, he mentions the top of
the podcast, so they kind of fail and twenty twenty
two like fail by reaching the finals and they lose.
But it's like him and Jalen Brown, what feels been
around for so long forever that perception like if he
doesn't get over the hump or if he's not, you know,
the unquestioned most valuable player on his team because Jalen
Brown wins Finals MVP. And I also think, finally, to
wrap up my own point, is I think collectively there
needs to be a better job of contextualizing a player's
impact because I probably would have picked Jason Tatum to
win Finals MVP for me just because you mentioned the passing,
but also I really do value adaptability and the influence
that your game or the attention you draw has on
everyone else on your team. And I don't think a
lot of the scoring performances that Jalen Brown has are
necessarily possible if Jason Tatum is not on his team
and drawing the you know, just the defensive attention that
he does. And so I find just the we reach
this point sometimes with players, but it just feels like
the perception of him veers so far away from reality.
And I honestly don't understand. You mentioned his personality that
should make him like like that should depolarize him, and
so it's like this guy's like kind of quiet, and
so like we're and we also aren't we at a
point where people are questioning the value of heliocentric play.
It's like that's the problem with Trey Young is who
can he fit with? That's why James Harden maybe hasn't
aged as grace gracefully as he adapted it enough. But
Jason Tatum isn't that. But it seems like that's a
problem that people have, is that he's not the heliocentric
type of star either. So I just find it. I've
tried to wrap my head around it for like the
past two years, and I still don't understand it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and those two styles went against each other in
the finals. Luca had to do everything for Dallas that
warm out, and Tatum they keyed in on him and
he spread the ball around and edward to a four
to one final. So the consistency with him will be key.
He as we talked about earlier, when the stories of
this year, can he stick to that style? Can he
continue to be a conciliatory player despite the criticism he's
receiving for his approach to the game and balancing that
analytical style with a little more freedom, a little more flexibility.
I do have frustration sometimes with the way they utilize him.
They make the game incredibly hard on him to allow
for an easier game for everybody else, And yes, that's
effective for winning, but it probably does get frustrated for
Tatum sometimes that he does have to deal with a
double team every time, or see three bodies at the rim,
and he's got to hit shots like the step back
threes and all that stuff to be able to get
his own and he's great at it, but it does
take a hit on his efficiency. Sometimes he does ride
highs and lows with his own offense. But fortunately he
just seems so content doing what he needs to win,
and that'll solve everything for him if he can stay
committed to him knock off multiple championships two or three
and four years five years, and we talked about earlier.
He is going to get back to a point where
his scoring, his ability to put the ball in the
basket is going to have to drive this a little
bit more once they have less effective pieces around him.
But for now, there's such a great team around him.
Passes all day and his scoring takes a hit and
they're winning. I don't think any Celtics fans gonna have
a problem with that, and there might be people have
issues with him on the outside in terms of how
he approaches it, but I love what he did in
the playoffs. The three point shooting concerns me a little
bit because it is so central to his game that
if that stays in the high twenties, that's going to
be a problem. So that's definitely something to watch for
this year. But everything else I thought hit the mark
in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: You mentioned this a little bit already, but I want
to see if you can get into more detail. But
we'll kind of stood out to you most about Jalen
Brown last year. Someone who at this level just to
continue incrementally improving year over year is kind of mind
blowing when you like from about an all NBA player
and like, just continues to get better every single year
that he's been in the league. What kind of stood
out to you the most though about how he was
playing last.
Speaker 2: Year that we had that conversation in November after that
Hornets game where he had a tough time fitting in,
shot selection, all the rest. Where's he going to get
his will he get lost all those concerns going into
the year because he was the guy who would have
the most difficult time adapting to this, everyone thought, And
then he slid into that secondary role shot well, got
it back into that mid range area where he was
so effective in twenty three and more importantly ended up
being the finisher for this team. And I love the
way he breaks open room protection by just going through guys.
The strength he played with last year on both ends
showed from his offseason training, but he also cut down
the turnovers, and I thought, in spots looked like an
effective secondary playmaker. Now you probably want to minimize the
amount of time the balls in his hands, but he's
not allowing himself to be boxed in to any single
role and that gave him flexibility too in this offense.
He could run some sets two years ago when he
was out there and Tatum was off. He was a
disaster that went better this year. They obviously had different
guys that they could slide into second units with them too,
But the biggest surprise of all was the two man
game with Porzingis and that unlocked him. That got Porzingis
involved consistently into some of those second units, and it
ended up being one of the more pleasant surprises of
the early portion of last seasons that those two guys
played so well off each other, they became best friends.
He found someone on the team that Brown really drived with,
and he seemed to just be more comfortable in Boston
and on the team as a whole, and never settled.
Kept pushing the vocal leadership from him. I think was
super important too, because that doesn't always seem to be
as natural for Tatum, and he said as much that
when Smart left, I had to step into that role,
and I loved the way he would challenge Tatum challenge
the team. The defensive emphasis he set to start the
year I think was an important point a year ago
when he signed the extension and he followed through with
defense that I think was the main reason he won
Finals MVP on Luca there and throughout he took big assignments,
so all that ended up being super surprising silenced a
lot of the doubts in him. You look back to
where he was a year ago coming off these Finals
Game seven meltdown, and for him to win both Final
MVP and He's Finals MVP, those rewards usually just go
by default to who people think is the best player
on the team, but that he had such staggering support
for both of those awards in the voting says a
lot about him, and he got back to a point
it looked like Tatum was separating himself as the most
important central player on this team. Both of their flexibilities
allowed either of them to be the star or the
option when necessary based on how defense is regarding them,
or who had it that night or anything. And even
as the playoffs went on, those guys got a lot
more connected. So I guess the most surprising thing about
Brown and Tatum this year is that they worked together.
I think that was a question or real question before,
and they made it work with each other. And now
they're going to be teammates for the foreseeable future and
they're champions together, which was never certain. So for everybody
who believed in them and their ability to stay together
and make it work. They got affirmed. And the Celtics,
who pretty much were willing to do anything but split
those guys up, got affirm too in their belief in
those two guys. And it looks important now because they're
the young ones. They're the guys who are going to
continue getting better, and they're the ones that keep them
in contention even after some of these older guys move on.
Speaker 1: Brown did have the type of year that did like
the passing and decision making on his drives, I thought
got a lot better. And then if you go back
and look like a few years ago what he could
do on the ball versus what he's doing now, I
felt like his on ball attacks were faster, and just
the level of counters he's added. This is not just
the last season thing, but like over the years, it's
it's almost unrecognizable and it's given me hope just based
off his you know, we progress isn't linear, but with
John Brown it feels like it has been linear. It's
kind of given me hope that like, oh, like maybe
the handle will continue to get better and that there
is continued development as a playmaker, because, like you said,
the assist percentage went up, the turnover percentage went down,
and that's a big deal to have that happen in
what was he year six? Is that what he was season?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 1: Ye? Year seven, Like that's a pretty big deal. And
so it leaves me wondering, and I wouldn't normally wonder
that about someone who's been in the league so long.
I'm like, there might just be still more light that
he's going to uncover.
Speaker 2: Well, hopefully he uncovers the free throw shooting, because that
is the one thing that took a dip last year
and at different points you're like, what is going It
felt like every time he stepped to the free throw
line he split him. So that's something he has to
improve going in this year. The three is still a
little low for the amount he shoots them. So those
are areas where I think he can improve, but he
makes up for in other areas. And the attention to
defense has to carry forward to because it's so frustrating
two years ago watch him with his physique, his size,
his past success as a defender continued underwhelm there. But
credit to Miszula too, who I think put him in
positions where he was focusing on one assignment, which is
where his strength obviously is on that end, but continued
improvement in those three areas of what I'm looking for.
Speaker 1: There's so many things that go into Boston's defense, and
even though they don't you know, they're not finishing first
every year in points leve per position. There are the
defense that I watch, especially last season, where there's just
these long stretches of and I'm looking at it through
an offensive lens lens, it just feels so hopeless to
have to go up against them. If you had to
boil it down to like kind of the biggest driving
force behind what makes them so good or this course
special defensively, what do you think it is?
Speaker 2: Their ability to guard multiple positions, not having weak links
out there, I think those are important. They don't have
any guys that you necessarily can play off the floor.
I think they take away the rim effectively too, which
you know, forces teams to shoot threes with guys who
aren't as effective, and they almost you know, the way
they play offensively where they're taking advantage of the weak link,
they almost do that defensively too, Like they'll expose a
guy who can't hurt them on offense, and whether it
was at Isaac Okoro in the second round, you know
probably some other guys in Indiana that you could take
advantage of in that sense, trading twos for threes, like
I thought, one of the more impressive things. They play
a very analytical style on defense too, which frustrates me
sometimes because you know, guys that are great mid range
shooters can take advantage of them a little bit. But
when you were allowing Moblei to go off and allowing
Siakam to go off inside, that was taken away from
those teams three point attacks and that gave the Celtics
an advantage the other way. So that impressed me about
Missoula last year's He tried doing that year one and
it wasn't that effective. Porzingis helps you do. It takes
away the rim more effectively. You can get some switching
with Horford and the other guys out there, and that
obviously stems from you know, the EMA year where they
got really good at that, and a lot of those
guys are still here who played in that system, so
they're able to do both and there's a flexibility on
that end. And then Holiday's addition, who was the quarterback
of the defense and calling out things and letting them
get to some other looks A lot of times when
they were going to zones and some other stuff, they
were just doing that on the fine communicating it. You
think back to what doing when they did it against
the Pacers. You know guys I talked to there who
like you know, we didn't really have any plan or
any setup for how this was going to go. We
basically just went to his own and started communicating. And
so those are all things they do really well. That
worked in Holiday. If you're going to replace Smart with anybody,
and I still think Smart was important to what they
did defensively, but you would have picked Holiday, and Holiday
in some ways is more effective out there than Smart
in terms of strength and experience and ability to guard
all positions. So that, I mean, that was the cherry
on top of how dominant they were last year, the
fact that they were able to go out and get him,
and unfortunately Brogden took such a dip after he left,
Rob immediately got hurt. So beyond how great it was
they got Holiday, they got off two guys who went
in the wrong direction health wise. That you know, if
you think they don't make that move and the same
thing happens with Brogden and Robbed that it did elsewhere,
You're not talking about a championship last year for this team,
So you get some luck. They got some luck with injuries,
they got some luck with that move. The Porzingis thing,
which was a gamble, went great. But there's luck involved
in all of this, and I can't think of anything
luckier than the Bucks decided to move on from Holiday
and him lent up in the Celtics, and obviously you
got to be aggressive, right, and Brad new we're gonna
do whatever it takes. And it was you know, we
debated it at the time, right, they gave up a lot? Well,
I looked like they gave up a lot.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even go back and listen to the podcast
I record it with you last offseason because of just
how off I was on this, Like I wouldn't be
able to do it. We did our regrades on this podcast,
because we grade every offseason. Then we go back and
admit where we were wrong on everything. I was so low.
I thought they had a playmaking depth sit. I was like, well,
it's persingis like he's injured. How are they gonna win
if like they you know, they bring him in and
he's going to play a crucial role. Is he going
to accept like a good enough offensive role after being
in Washington and being featured so heavily for two years
or whatever it was that stuff aged like milk, It
was so bad. They just answered everything and like in
the affirmative, it was incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was so great too, and transition smoothly
into a smaller role still kept up that post dominance
that he had in Washington. The post numbers for him
are just silly every time he looked at them, and
it felt like every time he put the ball up
it went in from wherever he was on the floor.
That's definitely something to watch this year is does that
maintain once he gets back, Can he stay healthy or
is that going to start to be something that cuts
into this team's dominance is the fact that he's in
and out of the lineup and he's dealing with a
bunch of stuff all the time. And is he that
same guy, the same dominant guy with the rhythm and
everything else he developed the strength once he gets back.
Everything I'm hearing is that that's an injury that isn't
going to have lingering effects once it's healed. So that's
a positive there, because every piece that you have here
adds to their level of dominance, and once you take
it away, I feel like the rum Ferry just gets
a little smaller. And obviously the league's better this year.
I feel like I'm not gonna sit here and say
easiest run ever and all that like some other people did.
But they did get some breaks along the way, and
you always do go in to a championship if there's dominated.
Speaker 1: I've never understood that framing, Like I'm not saying that
you had it. I just okay, it's not like they
won every It took them seven games to win every
series against the relatively easy They just dominated. Like it's
like with the nugg did in twenty twenty three, it
was maybe the whole thing. Okay, there was only one
great team and it was the Nuggets and they like
showed us. So I kind of I like, I can't
even listen to the frame of like, yeah, did get easy,
Like they didn't get easy. They did get lucky, like
you said, every team gets lucky somehow. Un Rout two championship.
They just absolutely just basically trucked everybody.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they did. And the tough part is the
guys that went down on the other side, because if
Butler's in that first round, it's a series, right, It's
not a series without him, it is with him. Mitchell,
that was a little bit of a series. It probably
was gonna go Celtics and six or something like that,
five six even with him, But it's not a series
anymore when Mitchell goes down there and Alan never even played.
And then in round three Hal burns everything that makes
the Pacers go. Nemhart did his thing and teach him.
McConnell turned in the effing Jordan, as Jalen said, So
it wasn't easy, right. I think that Pacers series is
actually incredibly difficult, and I think the Cavs series prepared
them well for what they saw later on because their
defense is so good. But it's crazy still to look
back on the three teams you played in the East,
all losing their best player. That's not going to happen
this year.
Speaker 1: I don't think, probably say bet to make do you
have any early impressions of Baylor Shireman?
Speaker 2: I like him. I don't know if he's ready. I
like his skill set though, I like that he's older
season polished. I think this team needs a guy like
that the Romeos and thees Smiths of the world that
didn't work with this group. They need someone who's a
little more ready to step in and hit shots, bring
some secondary skills to the table if he's not hitting shots.
And defensively, I think he at least has the body
to develop on that end, and so it's going to
take time. I think the the average night is going
to have him sitting on the bench, but there will
be nights where he's when guys are resting or guys
are down in that mix, you know, probably in like
the Spema hiloprawl where if two guys are down, he
might be in the mix a little bit there. So
I don't think you're going to see a ton of
him this year. Defensively, I think it's going to be
less houser where they let him float and guard the
best guys one on one and more of them having
to hide him. So that could limit him a little
bit in terms of how much he plays your one.
But it's gonna be awesome when he's up in Maine,
I do think he'll be in Maine a little bit
working on that. Just seeing him run the offense do
what he does with his passing with the ball in
his hands, I do think it makes sense that he's
more angles and less houser. He's a guy I think
that needs the ball in his hands to get his
shots off, and you know, he's left to develop that
catch and shoot skill a little bit playing in this offense.
But for thirty to get a guy who's a bona
fide shooter who shoots some distance. He was shooting from
half court some of those summer league games, and with
a secondary ball handling skill and with some secondary rebounding skills,
it's really exciting because normally a guy like that, you
think would be a specialist who doesn't do anything else.
But he even if he's not the greatest shooter in
the world, even if he's not a houser, can get
some other stuff to help him impact the game. So
I think he's got a great IQ. I think he's
got great seasoning. He's had to develop through every level.
He had a leap from that like low D one
level to the Big East and now going from that
to the NBA going to be another challenge, but I
think he's up for and I think he's a good
fit for what they need. It's still crazy to me
that they got him at thirty. I thought he was
going to be gone in the twenties.
Speaker 1: When you look at the rest of the East, how
would you rank like the biggest threats to Boston leading
into the season where you have New York, Philly, I
would throw Cleveland in there, and you have Milwaukee as well,
and then if there's like a fifth team, whether it's
the Indie or Miami or Orlando, of it all, like,
how do you looking at it through that lens? Who
do you consider like the most intriguing even if you
don't consider them real threats, but the most intriguing or
pivotal matchups for Boston.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they declined both of them last year, but I
can never get past the Bucks and the Heat, who
I think have played the Celtics more difficult than any
other teams in the East in recent years. Philly had
a little run early last year, but I'm always concerned
about Embiid's health. So this is tough to do in
a vacuum because I think Philly can be two if
Embiid's healthy, but that hasn't been the case. Milwaukee I
think has every capability of being too given what Giannis
brings to the table. And if they're healthy, and I
think they made some nice depth editions too full off
season for the coaching staff, beyond all the turbulence that
happened last year, They'd probably be my bet to go to.
I'll give the Knicks the benefit of the doubt at three,
because I think that team that takes the regular season
seriously in terms of being a threat to Boston, though
I worry about their center depth. I worry about Brunson's
ability to repeat what he did last year because I
think that's going to be necessary for him to knock
off the Celtics. And Randall's back in the mix, who
I wouldn't say they're better without, but they found a
style without him that suited them well and allowed them
to do what they did last year, So I think
there's some questions there despite how exciting their offseason was.
I'll put Philly four. I will put Cleveland five. I
still believe in Cleveland still. I don't like that they
fired their coach, but might be able to take on
a more offensive mindset under Atkinson. Fine replacement, so that
sometimes is necessary, and it kept their cast together, which
I think was important. I like their draft pick too,
Jalen Tyson. I'm usually high on Cleveland, and then I
think you got to put Indiana at six after what
they did last year. But Miami's creeping there too. I'm
not ruling out Miami yet, though, I'll I'll.
Speaker 1: Do it for you. We're ruling out Miami on this pot.
I'm ruling out Miami on this podcast.
Speaker 2: I'll put them at seven just because the Butler thing's weird,
and if that gets really weird, look up below so
and then eighths wide open with a bunch of teams.
I think Charlotte could be an up and comer this year.
I like what they're doing, but no one's a threat
below that seven line or even able to compete with
Boston below that seven minds, so it's still a relatively
thin conference. I still think Boston's in a class of
their own in this conference. But the Bucks, you know,
if I'm stacking up, I've I've said this a bunch
of times. I hope I can remember them. I thought
the five teams that played them best last year were Denver,
Oklahoma City, Minnesota, Philadelphia, and Milwaukee. Milwaukee obviously destroyed them
twice on their home courts. Some wacky scheduling stuff there
and I don't even remember who played in those games,
but still two dominant wins. I think Johannis went down
the second one too, so I still respect Milwaukee. Middle
Thing's health is going bad and that could end up
costing them an ability to contend well.
Speaker 1: He always seems to be ready just in time to
go off.
Speaker 2: He was good last year. He was good, but then
he has two ankle of surgeries this summer. It's like,
what the hell?
Speaker 1: We still hadn't ruled out they could have been by
one get one. We don't know. Maybe the other one
was fine, but it was just taking advantage of the
type opportunity. I think I agree with you that the Bucks,
because the Bucks and the Sixers I think are the
two biggest toughest matchups for the Celtics. It's just a
question of their health. And I think I have less
questions even though Yhanna has been up the past two
years in the postseason, the embeat of it all, like,
I have fewer questions about Milwaukee staying healthy or Kuwalm's concerns.
And for the Knicks, I their depth and just like
their talent. It makes so much sense, but I worry.
You know, you mentioned Brunson replicating what he did last year.
I agree, But even if he does, that's where you
get into the Julius Randall. The roster construction of it
all is like do they have enough offensive options to
go after Boston's defense, like beyond Brunson, And you've now
decided that Julius Randall needs to be that guy because
you went all in on mcal Bridges.
Speaker 2: Who I would have kept Isaiah Hartenstein over Randall.
Speaker 1: There was like they wouldn't needed cap space to get
it done. It's like you couldn't. Now you're chopping off
more than Randall at that point, like Oakraham City offered
more than they could have. So I if you asked
me that question, if it wasn't an issue of could
they actually like feasibly have done that, I might have
agreed with you. But I still think even then, if
you're shifting mcale bridges into the number two kind of
like best scorer role, I just yeah, and that's the question,
and I think going up against Boston's defense, like they're
just gonna be nights. I would assume that Jalen Brunson
isn't going to have the best night. We've seen Julius
ran on the postseason with the Knicks twice. It has
never been good. So I feel like they might have
the collection of talent that at its peak is the
biggest threat to Boston.
Speaker 2: I just they have the best personel for sure. You
have multiple wing defenders. You have a big center who
I've been back and forth on Robinson, but he's hurt
them in the past and he has ways they can
hurt the Celtics, but it's putting a lot on him
to do everything at that spot. So they have the pieces.
They have the coaching, they have the star. You know,
if you're talking who's the best player in a series,
you might get into that series if Brunson repeats what
he did last year and say, Brunson, it's possible at
least And then you need to have a guy who
it's at least possible going into the series, can be
the best player. So they have all of that and
a great home court too. I'm still super bumm. We
needn't get that Nick Celtics East Finals. Maybe we'll get
it this year, but I have questions about them. I
think it's going to be difficult for them to repeat
what they did last year, and they got so battered
injury wise by the end two. I think that's a
real question. So here's the thing. Celtics beat them handily
first four times they played last year. They got destroyed
in the fifth one OG played. It only game OG
played between them, but the Celtics were already clinched up.
And that's you know what a lot of Celtics fans
throw back at me when I bring that up, and
it's fair. So what does that look like this time around?
You're adding Bridges another significant addition. He's a star in
a secondary role as he was in Phoenix. So I'm
super intrigued by it. If we're sitting there, and you know,
it might even be my pick, if we're sitting there
in May and it's Celtics next East Finals or second round.
However it stacks up, it's going to be a battle.
And again, you caught some breaks last year, some guys
were out. You get into a series against the fully
loaded Knicks, you're gonna have to earn every bit of that,
and I'm looking forward to something like that this time around.
Brad said it right, and I think, you know, when
Brad talks, I always listen. He's like, it's gonna be
much harder this time. It's gonna be much much harder.
And I think that's what Celtics fans have to prepare
for going in this year. There's a world where they
start twenty seven and three or something ridiculous like that,
like the O nine team did, because they're just so
connected and confident. They got that weight off their shoulders.
But I just think, and you know, we can go
through the schedule whatever and actually look at how it
lines up. I think the opening weeks of the season
aren't super difficult, but I think porzingis being out them
managing things, fatigue a little bit, maybe even a championship
hangover effect. I think it's going to actually challenge them
more early on to stay focused, stay locked in. I
think one of our guys, Wayne Spooney on Celens actually
taught saw Joe Mizzooli give a speech at West Virginia
last week. I think it was and one of the
things he was saying that Missoul was talking about was
so many teams that have won over the last hand
fully years here went down by the second round, And
he says he's been searching all off season, why does
that happen? How can we prevent this? And he's very
alert to the fact that, Yeah, there's a real hangover
effect here. Teams are coming for them, I think, to
some real teams that can challenge them in the East
if they're healthy. The Celtics off the bat aren't healthy.
So not that I'm saying they're gonna start ten to
ten or anything like that, but I think you just
gotta mentally prepare. It's gonna be difficult. It's gonna be
very hard to repeat. No one's done it since the Warriors, right,
and the Warriors were stacked. This team's not quite stacked
that way that those Warriors were. So it's gonna be
a battle. It's gonna be a fun one to watch.
Speaker 1: So I do wonder if they're less susceptible to the
championship hangover, because I view Derek White, Drew Holliday and
Joe Mizzoola is just fucking sickos. And then you have
Jason Tatum. Does he use whatever happened with tam USA
and the discourse is fuel. And then Jalen Brown as
he used the fact that he wasn't picked for Team
USA is fuel. And so I never know how to
measure those things because they're so intangible, Like does this team,
for a reigning champion, have more just like individual pieces
to overcome that championship?
Speaker 2: Haick.
Speaker 1: I might just be more worried about fatigue because you
had three guys playing on the Olympic, Like, that's just
a lot of basketball and.
Speaker 2: You have to manage that. I think like Brad has
to insert himself this year and say Tatum sitting out
this game, Drew's sitting out this game. They did a
better job of it last year, but I think there's
another length they could even go to to say and it.
Speaker 1: Easy play every game, Like that's someone who was like
I don't like he's.
Speaker 2: Even Yeah, Horford doesn't even want to sit out, Like
you gotta you gotta convince Horford probably to step back
to like twenty five minutes a night with poor zengis out.
So that's all stuff they're gonna have to figure out
how to manage. I think they're already thinking about it too,
you know, that's all very scientific stuff that I think
there's numbers and stuff attached to, so you know, credit
to them. They came out pretty healthy last year and
didn't have any major injuries besides the freak porzingis one.
So they handled that well last year. They're gonna have
to handle it even better this time around.
Speaker 1: You know what, I didn't include this in the outline
I sent you, But what do you like? The people
don't talk about this enough. How big of a loss
is Charles Lee for this team?
Speaker 2: I think it's a real loss. I think he brought
a championship experience. I'm sure some defensive chops from his
time with Boonholzer, who's a great defensive coach. I think
Heibby was a personality that helped settle this team down
a nice loose one compared to Joe's fire. It's always
tough to track or quantify what that means losing a
guy like that. They certainly didn't bring in any major,
bonafide assistant to replace him. They brought in a couple
of developmental guys and sham Gott and you know another
guy whose name I can't remember from Missoli's West Virginia days.
But Casselle's moving up a seat. Nice to still have
him here. Mcclay's there, Tony Dobbins, you know, my guy
with the with the replay. I wish I can't remember
his name off the top. I'm gonna have to look
it out because I want to disrespect him. But they
got some great assistance here. But Lee was a big one.
I thought that addition was huge. I thought he's been
a great coach, head coaching caliber guy for years now
across the league. He would have been my choice if
they moved on from his HULU last year. It'd actually
take over this team. So I think he's gonna do awesome.
And Charlotte, I think that's something I'm more sure about
than how this is going to affect the Celtics. But
I do think it's something to look at because it's
something no one's talking about. And it was probably the
biggest loss of the offseason on this team, almost definitely
was because they didn't lose much. Yeah, so I think
it's something to look at. And you know, if anything
slips up here or there, you can't start to think
in the back of your head, oh all right, they
just lost a little bit of that brain power going
in next year. Remember, obviously they lost e May that
year too, but they lost will Hardy after the first
year they would run in the finals, and you know,
both of those guys going out the door had a
made effect and you didn't quite have the replacements to
come in and make up for it. It's tough to
compare those two situations because that first one was just
so crazy. But it matters. It's just how much does
it matter? It might not?
Speaker 1: Are you ready to enter the lightning round? Cookie Cutter
portion of the podcast?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 1: Is there anything about this team that we haven't discussed
that you think is flying under the radar that should
still be talked about?
Speaker 2: Ooh, under the radar? I guess just the age, the
age of the roster, the guys around the the ancillary
pieces around Brown and Tatum, Horford thirty eight, White just
turned thirty, Holidays thirty four. That all matters. Those guys
have some miles. Those guys have been through a bunch
of bumps and bruises, huge minutes. Horford in particular, and
I hate doubting Horford because I think he always surprises
everybody and he just takes such great care of himself.
And he's on the Brady thing, so I don't think
there's any serious concern of a Horford slippage. But every
year you get up there, now it's thirty eight, there's
a little bit of a decline, and you know you
see it in him. I thought when he had to
play more games in less days, he slowed down quite
a bit. There were some stretches in the playoffs where
he went really cold the Cleveland series up until his
Game five breakout. But he's resilient. He bounces back. This
is the overarching thing I'm looking at this year, though,
is how the health and the age of the roster
come into play around the two stars.
Speaker 1: What does and when Chris SOPs porzingis is available? What
does the top ten rotation look like for this team?
It feels like they have eight or maybe nine locks
for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got your five Horford off the bench. How'ser
Pitcher brings you to eight and then Cornett and Tilman
trading off that nine ten spot is probably how you
look at it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call my shot for Cada to have one
of those spots by the end of the.
Speaker 2: Sear Think, all right, is he a playoff guy? By
the end of it.
Speaker 1: I think he can be like, there's clearly still issues there.
I might just be reading too much into what I
saw from him in Summer League.
Speaker 2: I think that's a health thing. You know, Corneck gets
hurt sometimes. That'd be a big opportunity for Cada.
Speaker 1: Is the crunch time unit this team has known, like
there's gonna be no floughts again. Fiddling with the crunch
time unit at full striketh like it's gonna be kind
of the same deal as they figured it out last year.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, you do some porzingis Horford swapping depending on
how the game's going or with the opposing teams throwing
out there. But yeah, the other four relocks.
Speaker 1: This is also kind of an interesting question for this
team specifically because there was so little turnover. But is
there any like weird or funky lineups you'd like to
see Mizoula try this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You always think about that small ball one they
got two against the Pacers. That's gonna be a little
more difficult, I think this year because you're probably missing
an extra wing to slot in. You could do some
three guard stuff there with Prichard and go super small,
but it can tat him get to that five spot
at times. That might even help his offense a little bit,
being able to play against the fives and fours and
you play fast defensively, it's tough. You're really gonna ask
a lot out of Tatum to guard those fives, but
he did it in the Indiana series. I think there's
some fives that focus more on shooting, like Miles Turner,
who he can guard effectively. So yeah, I'd like to
see a little more small, Bob.
Speaker 1: I would like to see them like, let's give everybody
a rest night at one point, and then you're just
giving us Peyton, Pritchard, Balor Shireman, Sam Hauser, Louke Cornette,
and then I'm gonna throw Cada in over till Man
because I'm fascinated by Cata. So let's just get or
just a hockey style substitution for a couple of minutes.
I would just like to see what that looks like.
Sure you sound so intrigued by that one. The over
under for them as we currently record this is fifty
eight and a half. Would you take the over the
under on that? And I think we've both kind of
established that, like we'd still view them in their own
tier inside the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 2: Fifty eight and a half, he said, And it's been moving.
Speaker 1: When I first put together your outline before I send
it to you, it was a fifty seven and a half.
Then I checked again before I sends you, and it
moved up to fifty eight and a half.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they won sixty four last year and that's just dominating.
That's still pretty close to actually date. Fifty eight and
a half. Though, Oh it's tough. I think anticipating more
health around the league, more challenges within the conference, more
rest all that. I think the safe bet would be under.
But if you're feeling good about that over and you
think they can repeat that dominance and ride a high
of a post championship OH nine style season, it's not
an unsurmountable number, but it's a high one. And usually
with over unders, I think the sky high ones you
go under and the dead low ones you go over.
So I'm actually gonna go under that. Maybe it's fifty
eight even, but I'll play it safe there.
Speaker 1: I we haven't done ours yet, but I don't know
what I'm going to do with this team because I
underestimated them last year and I keep looking at that
record without Christops porzingis what were they thirty one and
five or six or whatever ended up being last year,
And I'm like, not that he doesn't matter, but it
feels like they might be built to hit the over anyway,
even if he's not gonna play until January or February
or something. But I'm so curious what does he look
like upon return and how much is he playing too?
They held him under thirty minutes last year. Is that
number gonna come even down when you're looking at the
ramp up from this so fifty I mean, like sixty
plus again is like it could just happen. You could
tell me they would win sixty three or whatever. I'd
be like, yeah, sure that happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's tough. Those are always difficult for me.
I actually did pretty well on them when I went
through all the league them. There's last year, and I
like to do that going in every season, just to
see like how it is expected to go versus how
it does go. But I think I usually, like I said,
lean on the safe side with the high high ones,
and this team is going to be more focused on
the playoffs in the regular season. I have to think
after last.
Speaker 1: Year, well, I'm glad someone did good on over unders.
We do a contest with our discord members, and I
think out of every I had like the third worst
showing of like anyone that was in it. I was
absolutely destroyed.
Speaker 2: And there were some great ones last year, like Indy
over I thought was a slam dunk and ended up
being that. I'm trying to think of some of the
other ones that I.
Speaker 1: Really Memphis I'd picked. I think it was four three seasons.
I picked Memphis to go under and they cleared the
over and so I was like, all right, I have
to stop picking the Grizzlies under. So I hit the
over that did not ended up working out too well
for me.
Speaker 2: Let's see do I have them here? NBA over under.
So the ones I loved were Boston over just from
last year. Obviously, Cleveland over. I really like Cleveland last year.
Detroit under ended up being a pretty easy one. I
went under on San Antonio. I wasn't as high on
them as some people going in the last year, and
they had a pretty rough year too. So yeah, there
were someones that really stood out. Thunder forty four and
a half last year, and they ended up being the
one seed that was a great over too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that was an easy over for
me if I remember, if I wasn't mistaken. But yeah,
I think.
Speaker 2: They're gonna be really good this year. By the way,
talk about a team that's been underdiscussed. If I was
gonna pick the finals right now, I picked under Celtics.
Speaker 1: I think the Thunder gonna be my pick to come
out of the West. I haven't and I might pick
will probably be Thunder Celtics. I don't know who. I'm
so high in Oklahoma City. We have YouTube commenters are
furious with me. They think I'm a Thunder fan at
this point.
Speaker 2: I mean, they got Hartenstein and Alex Caruso. That's a
crazy offseason without beyond all the stuff they had, without.
Speaker 1: Giving up any picks. Because the Bulls exist apparently.
Speaker 2: So they could have add even more if they wanted
to or needed to. So yeah, and good coach. Coach
of the year team that beat the Celtics pretty handily
on their home court. Last year, the Celtics beat them
pretty well in their home court. So those are games
I'm circling on my calendar for sure.
Speaker 1: Tame, if you have to pick the Western Conference team
you think is the toughest matchup for them. You think
it's Oklahoma City rather than like Minnesota, Dallas, Denver those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, to go back to your other
question about like what's going on, I will under the
radar and I'll give my co host John credit for this.
When they play teams that are super young, super athletic,
fly up and down the court, those teams give them
a little bit of trouble to go back to their
age or even just the athleticism component. On Boston's roster.
They're not the most young, spry, athletic, quick team. Even
a guy like Holiday like he's going to go against
a super quick, shifty guard like Shay that sometimes challenges him.
So that's another thing I'd say is a team like
the Thunder a ton of athleticism, small space, great three
point shooting ability there too. Fortunately for the Celtics they
don't have to deal with the West, and some weird
stuff can happen. Again, Like who's to say if Dallas
and Oklahoma go at it again, Dallas couldn't beat Oklahoma,
But if it does come down to that, I think
that's the toughest matchup of any team in the NBA
for them next year an Oklahoma City series.
Speaker 1: Bobby, this was great. Thank you so much for coming
back on it for all your time. Are you able
just to tell our listeners and YouTube viewers where they
can find you and all the work that you.
Speaker 2: Do, Yeah, for sure. Stealingismedia dot com writing reporting regularly
over there the Garden Report were lives at least once
a week and many times more once this season gets rolling,
and bust the Sports journal every Saturday.
Speaker 1: Once again, thank you so much for your time, and
as you know by now, I'm sure I'll be pattering
you again. Yeah for be sure.
Speaker 2: Good talking to you man,