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Speaker 1: What is up, Fellowsiko's I Am Dana Valley coming at

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you with He had another twenty twenty four to twenty

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twenty five NBA book ahead. We were onto the Boston Celtics,

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which means I had the pleasure of being joined by

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Bobby Manning, who covers the Celtics for CNLS. He's also

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the co host of the Garden Report podcast. He contributes

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to the Boston Sports Journal as well as the Celtics

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as well as Celtics bog subtimes, so he's doing a

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whole lot. Does it really well, had a great time

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picking his brain about not just his coming season for

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the Celtics, but kind of looked at what happened last

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year and also just moving forward long term after all

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the investments that they made. So fantastic discussion. I think

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you will enjoy it. Please remember, if you've not done

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so already in your new around here, subscribe, YouTube, Apple, Spotify,

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the whole nine. If you've done those things like in

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us back a little bit, join our discord the link

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you've done all those things, continue to spread the word,

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let people know about us, word of mouth recommendations go

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a long way for us, or just bump our social

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posts that can help as well. With that out of

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the way, though, let's get to talking lots and lots

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of Celtics with Bobby Manning. Bobby, thank you so much

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for coming back on to the HARVARDOS podcast. For this

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year is Boston Celtics look Ahead. This is your number

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two for you, so I appreciate you coming back after

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the first time. How the heck are you doing, sir good.

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Speaker 2: It's great to be back and I'm ready to get going.

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This off season's been nice, calm long. I think it's

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been ten weeks now since the championship, so I'm ready

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to get going again. I think things are going to

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start picking up here with less than a month from

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training camp start in which I think is the twenty fourth.

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Ish thinks you're going to start a little bit earlier

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than some other teams, so I'm looking forward to that.

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They got their preseason trip tab and an interesting training

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camp cast characters here too, so we'll get in all that.

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Speaker 1: The Olympics basketball is completely just the Olympics in general

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is completely thrown off my off season timeline. I have

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just no sense of how closet training camps and preseason

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and regular season basketball is anymore. The Celtics won the title, though,

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but I think the biggest storyline coming out of that

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as I heard that you were in the parade, So

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what was what was that experience?

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Speaker 2: Like, Yeah, it was a pleasant surprise. I wasn't anticipating

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being able to And we did have a spot. Our

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videographer from it, who was amazing, was supposed to go

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in there and you know, take videos and just document

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the whole thing. And we were like, all right, let's

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see if they have two spots. So finding the trucks,

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it was basically the back of a flatbed pickup truck

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that was going to be at the front of the parade.

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It was tough because the sidewalks were just filled completely

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with every people. There was that little celebration thing they

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did in the garden before, But after a certain point

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we were in the garden and we were like, all right,

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we got to find out where the parades leaving from.

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And I didn't even know where we're going to be

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on a duck boat, where we're going to be on

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a truck, Like we ended up being. So we finally

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found the trucks and I was just standing there waiting

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because our videographer got into his spot. They obviously told

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me they didn't have one for me, and I just

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stood around for a few minutes, felt out the situation.

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They told me to go over to, you know, watch

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the trucks moving out, and I was going to do that,

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and I was like, wait, let me see if there's

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an open spot, or if I can walk with the

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parade or something like that. So I stood by the

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trucks for a few more minutes. I saw an open

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spot and I was like, all right, let me just

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jump in. So I jumped in. The guy came back

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over and was like, all right, I appreciate you doing that,

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but if if someone if that person comes, you're out.

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So I was like, all right, it seems like it

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was getting pretty close to starting, but you know, fifteen

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minutes go by and then all of a sudden, the

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confetti starts shooting and we start moving. I'm like, oh,

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all right, here we go. So it was amazing. The

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wall of sound. I think Brad Stevens talked about it

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on Causeway was unreal. My truck, my videographer was in

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a different one in front of Tatum, I think, but

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my truck was in front of Joe, who I think

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was the most eccentric character in the whole parade, standing

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up on it and just screaming and yelling, going crazy.

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So we got to see the whole route, got to

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see the fans on both sides. We still have the

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videos up on Sealing this Media if people want to

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see it, because it's an amazing view. We have like

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the full length video of just driving through and people

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on both sides for miles and just going through that

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part of the city. Obviously the heart of the city

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there in Boston was unreal. That was Yeah, that was

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a lifelong, unique experience. Really lucky to be able to

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experience it, And yeah, I think that's like one of

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a kind. That was. Yeah, that's something you dream of

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for sure.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I would have had the gall to

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just like see the open spot and go take it.

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So kudos to you for just having like the guts

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to like step in there and be like, let's just

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see what happens.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's one of those things where you're like,

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all right, this is this is like once in a

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lifetime opportunities, you just gotta go take it. Maybe it

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doesn't work, but you got to try in that spot.

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And obviously if I didn't do it, that seat would

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have just been sitting open. So I'm glad I did.

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Speaker 1: You did. Look honestly, you helped the product because it

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would just little what looked weird if there's an empty

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spot for this Boston.

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Speaker 2: Right, Great, Yeah, we got some video and all that too.

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So yeah, you know, and our big thing with Cel

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and US is taking the fans inside the coverage, the

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back you know, round of what's going on inside the

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team and just what you can see being around the

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team day to day. So we got full length video

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of the parade from the parade, and I think that's

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really valuable for fans. I think, you know, tens of

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thousands of people got to see that. So yeah, that

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was I'm thrilled that our parade coverage went the way

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it did because things were so crazy that day. Yeah,

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you had no clue what you were going to be

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able to do. In fact, when we had our meetings

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and stuff going in about how we were going to

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cover it, our boss was basically just like, don't exp

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to do anything because things just might not work. And honestly,

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everything we dreamed and imagined that day of being able

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to do some man on the street stuff, some coverage

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from inside the parade, and merch giveaways and all kinds

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of stuff, it all worked perfectly, which given the chaotic

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nature that day, I don't know were you there? Were

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you able to go?

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Speaker 1: No? I was not there.

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Speaker 2: It was nuts. Yeah, the whole city was filled. I

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think they said what two point five million or something

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like that. It felt every bit like that. And so

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if you weren't in the parade route like we were

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able to be, me and a met, you weren't going

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to be able to move at all. So you basically

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were going to get one fixed position of the parade

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going by and that was it because they were just

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countless people on every step of the way. In fact,

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when the parade ended and they dropped us off at

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the end, we had to walk back to the garden,

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which was funny. But they dropped us off at the end,

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there were still people lined up towards Fenway like blocks

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from where the parade actually ended. So yeah, it was

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overflowing with people on the whole route.

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Speaker 1: I think the next step is we need to get

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you in like we've seen the videos of the Hornets

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and the Sons that they released me to get you

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in the Celtics draft war room or maybe for them

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like the trade deadline war room, because their draft picks

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are probably gonna be pretty boring for the next few years.

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But that should be the next thing. They should let

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you in there for that.

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Speaker 2: That would be cool. I think it's a little too

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inside to have that kind of access. Usually on draft

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night we're like in the room next door, so you see,

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especially the day before them setting up all the phones

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and we're next door and don't have access to what's

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going on inside during that time. But that would be cool.

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I don't think we'd be able to record stuff. I

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know they let people in the lottery room too, another

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thing you can't record. You can't reveal what happened. But

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they'll have a certain number of reporters in the lottery room,

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and that's going on for the draft and get you

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got to find out early who won, but no one

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else does and you can't share it until it comes out.

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So I don't know what the value is in that beyond.

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Speaker 1: They confiscate everything before you go in that room. I

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would kill to be in the draft lottery room just

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to see, like the live reactions from the executives when

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the like the better in the.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess, yeah, you could share that after, I guess.

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But beyond that, you're you just you know it. The

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rest of the world's waiting and you can't put it

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out there.

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Speaker 1: Celtics won a championship, won sixty four games as well.

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What was just a year before the championship, what was

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just your biggest takeaway from or the thing that stood

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out most about this team from last season.

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Speaker 2: They never stumbled. They had maybe one or two moments

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where you're like, ooh, that wasn't a great loss, but

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then they got up from it every time and then

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went on that run of consistency that pretty much lasted

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from start to finish. I'd say their ability to sustain injuries.

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They had a ridiculous record with pretty much every guy

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out except for Derek White. Multiple guys would be down

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and they'd still win games. Porzingis ended up down for

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almost the entirety of the playoffs and they went sixteen

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and three on their way of the title. So that consistency,

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I think the focus attention and detail everyone had to

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their roles. Given that this team came together in one

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year almost in an eight fashion, right, it just clicked

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immediately and everybody played well together. Everybody shined in their role.

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No one did too much top to bottom, And I

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think that's a credit to Joe Mizzoula, who I think

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surprised everybody with his effectiveness on both sides of the

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ball into year two. And he became obviously a star

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in his own role on this team too. So those

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three things I'd say surprised me the most. The depth

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shining on this team. The bench ended up being effective

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until the late stages of the NBA Finals. Normally those

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guys drop off, and he had questions about guys off that.

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Speaker 1: Ben getting some stops too in those moments.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think he hit eleven threes in the finals,

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so ridiculous series for him. Pritchard had his moments, Cornette

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and Tilman both had playoff moments. Even Prisette played a

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role in winning a playoff game. So the depth of

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this team I think shined better than you could have imagined.

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What lended to their consistency the dominant fashion of the

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run through the regular season, win the East by fifteen games,

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then just rolling through the playoffs, and then the coaching.

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The coaching just left up in a way that I

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think surprised everybody this year. It wasn't a great first

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year from Missoula. I was on the fence about keeping them,

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but I said, if they believe in them, I think

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all the excuses from year one were valid, and they

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believed in them. They kept them, and all the excuses

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were valid because once he had a staff, once he

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had time, and once he was able to institute on

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a deeper level the things he wanted to do. He

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showed to be one of the best coaches in the

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league this year. So that's going to be another strength

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with them going forward.

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Speaker 1: What is it about this team though, And even I

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talked to you about my concerns with them last year

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where it felt like we were conditions and I'm not

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saying you specifically, but conditioned to doubt them or everyone's

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looking for the holes and why they couldn't win the title,

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and then you look back at what they did, like

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maybe there was reasons they did turn It is rare

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you see them. They traded like three of their top

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six rotation players last all season and then all this

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season they go and win a title. That feels to

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have that little turnover and then win is fairly rare.

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But what is it about them specifically where it just

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felt like I look back on them now as sort

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of this generational team that just wasn't appreciated the moment

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because they had You look at all the numbers, they

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the fourth highest combined net rating through the playoffs and

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regular season of the past like fifty years. Is there

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anything specific about this team though that kind of comments,

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like that doubt that we saw, you know, not that

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they needed to be deemed inevitable, but it just didn't

250
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seem like they had the respect of like a juggernaut,

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even as they won sixty four games in the regular season.

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Speaker 2: I think it's the fact that their stars hadn't proven

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themselves yet and those guys had weaknesses in their game

254
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Brown and Tatum that led to playoff losses in the past.

255
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Too much focus on isolation, too much settling, not enough

256
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playmaking chops, even though they dominated the ball for the

257
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most part for the offense and the team around them

258
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changed quite a bit, but you still looked at those

259
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two stars and said, all right, are the old version

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of these guys gonna come about when there's a big

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situation or a playoff setting, or just a moment that

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ends up too big for them. And those guys leveled

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up in a way. And back to my point about

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the roles on the team, there was some doubt about

265
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Jalen Brown's role on the team. Is he going to

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be involved consistently? Is he going to work in this

267
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new setup alongside Porzingis and Holiday and other guys who

268
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were going to have the ball? And he settled nicely

269
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into that transition finisher, break the defense open kind of role,

270
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playing off the ball more than one and that worked

271
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perfectly for him to the point of being a Finals MVP.

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And you know, he got involved in the little things

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like the defense and the rebounding and all of that too.

274
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So I think those guys showed a greater adaptability this year.

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They relied on the new pieces around them, didn't try

276
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to do too much themselves, kept the ball popping, and

277
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Tatum leveled up as a passer. Tatum out of struggles

278
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in the playoffs, I know we're going to get to

279
00:12:53,799 --> 00:12:56,200
him to the point where he could have an eleven

280
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assist game in the clincher with the defense and swarming them.

281
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And this is after the finals run where he broke

282
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the playoff turnover record. I think his playoff assisted turnover

283
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it was like seven to two in the end, something

284
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like that, seven to three. So those guys leveled out,

285
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but more importantly, they showed an adaptability and a willingness

286
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to rely on their teammates, trust their teammates, and obviously

287
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the supporting cast around them leveled up to a point

288
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where they were dominant. You didn't have any weaknesses on offense,

289
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you didn't have any guys you could ignore, and then

290
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on defense there was no one really to attack. And

291
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then included some of the guys off the bench, so

292
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they shared up their weaknesses so much between the stars,

293
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between the supporting cast. Then it made them bulletproof in

294
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a way that didn't seem sure. Going into the year,

295
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you wondered if fran Tatum were going to be consistent

296
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the coaching obviously where they two reliant on threes, was

297
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the defense going to be up to par where it

298
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was two years ago. Those things came through and then

299
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you had the depth. It was enough depth here could

300
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,600
you rely on a top six that was that front loaded,

301
00:14:08,639 --> 00:14:11,159
but they ended up having seven, eight, maybe even nine

302
00:14:11,159 --> 00:14:14,240
guys some nights who could give you something. And again,

303
00:14:14,279 --> 00:14:16,440
we're super effective in their roles. Everybody knew what they

304
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,639
needed to do on this team. There wasn't any uncertainty.

305
00:14:18,639 --> 00:14:21,320
I think Al Horford Derek White talked about that during

306
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,080
the year, and then everybody knew what they needed to

307
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,480
do on each possession too. Like my favorite quote of

308
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,679
the year was Derek White saying, we have all the answers,

309
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,000
we just have to be able to get to them.

310
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And that goes back to the coaching.

311
00:14:33,639 --> 00:14:36,840
Speaker 1: When you look at their offseason, everything they did in

312
00:14:36,879 --> 00:14:39,240
a vacuum is a singular move you just do without

313
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,480
even thinking. The Jason Tatum extension, the Derek White extension,

314
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,120
even the Sam Hawser extension. But when you waive them

315
00:14:45,159 --> 00:14:47,399
collectively and look at how much money this team is

316
00:14:47,399 --> 00:14:50,240
going to cost moving forward projected to be and by

317
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,759
the way, they did extend Drewale right before last season ended. Anyway,

318
00:14:53,799 --> 00:14:55,600
this is going to cost a ton of money. And

319
00:14:55,639 --> 00:14:57,919
so you juxtaposed that against all these other teams that

320
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:02,360
are kind of operating in fear of the second apron penalties,

321
00:15:02,399 --> 00:15:04,519
and I know just the potential sale of the team

322
00:15:04,559 --> 00:15:06,919
could maybe factor into this, and maybe it's sort of

323
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,080
a we'll figure it out when it matters approach. But

324
00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,559
does it say anything that they gave out all of

325
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,759
these steeper, multi year commitments to keep this core together

326
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:17,919
where I think a lot of people view all these

327
00:15:18,639 --> 00:15:20,440
title cores in terms of, oh, it's going to be

328
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,000
a year by year basis on how they're going to

329
00:15:22,039 --> 00:15:24,639
keep together, And it just feels like with the number

330
00:15:24,639 --> 00:15:26,799
of deals they've given out over the past like six months,

331
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:28,799
eight months, whatever, it is that this is a team

332
00:15:28,799 --> 00:15:31,960
that's at least prepared to float another two years of

333
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,000
this exact core with the like the financial outlay that

334
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,000
is going to cost them. Is that the accurate read

335
00:15:38,039 --> 00:15:40,000
on the situation or is it more of a well,

336
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,879
there's sign these guys and you just figure it out

337
00:15:41,879 --> 00:15:42,240
as you go.

338
00:15:44,759 --> 00:15:46,799
Speaker 2: I think you go year by year for sure. I

339
00:15:46,799 --> 00:15:49,440
think that's how they're going to handle it. You allow

340
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:54,039
yourself the maximum opportunity to contend by locking up those

341
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,080
guys long term, and at the very least you have

342
00:15:57,159 --> 00:16:00,960
options if you need to pivot financially in the near term,

343
00:16:01,039 --> 00:16:04,679
and obviously new ownership will dictate that their ability to

344
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,200
maintain that salary year to year. It's going to get

345
00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:09,600
enormous in twenty twenty six, to the point where you

346
00:16:09,799 --> 00:16:14,679
don't think at least the current cast of owners on

347
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:19,399
the team can maintain that maybe for one year, but again,

348
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,759
it's going to be historic. And my curiosity is going

349
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:24,960
to be if they do need to pivot, if they

350
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,480
do need to adjust, how are they going to do it?

351
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:32,159
Because obviously there's dollar for dollar trade matching. Now is

352
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,360
there enough suitors around the league to take on money

353
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,960
if you want to offload it. I was very curious

354
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,360
how that was going to go this summer because you

355
00:16:40,399 --> 00:16:43,399
looked at some teams that were pushing that Apron. Phoenix

356
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,399
pretty much held on to their guys Minnesota. You thought

357
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,120
Towns might move there. No one took him on, no

358
00:16:50,399 --> 00:16:53,039
major money move. And when you look at all these

359
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:57,320
players on the Celtics, there's major money at every spot.

360
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,000
So how you're going to go about off well in that event?

361
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,720
I think the most straightforward way it would happen is

362
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,920
once Porzingis's deal expires, you just let him off the

363
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,640
books and that saves you thirty at that point, and

364
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,920
then you look at Holiday who I still think even

365
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:17,720
as he hits thirty four here still enormously valuable. That

366
00:17:17,799 --> 00:17:20,880
contract's going to look better each year as the cap rises.

367
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,559
So I think you just go year by year with

368
00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:27,880
those guys, and you know, twenty twenty six, Porzingis comes

369
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,400
off the books after that first super expensive year Holiday.

370
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,079
At that point, you know, what do you make of

371
00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,799
his situation? Horford, It's not an enormous break, but his

372
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,759
ten comes off the books after this year. So I

373
00:17:38,839 --> 00:17:40,200
think that's how it's going to go. And that's how

374
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,480
it went for most teams this summer, right KCP and

375
00:17:42,519 --> 00:17:46,720
Denver they just let him walk. Other guys in situations

376
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,039
I can't think of any of the top of my head.

377
00:17:48,039 --> 00:17:50,039
I guess the Clippers with George to some degree, they

378
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,519
just let him walk. So I think the most straightforward

379
00:17:53,599 --> 00:17:55,880
way for teams to get off money is going to

380
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,480
be letting them going free agency. And you used to

381
00:17:58,519 --> 00:18:00,559
have sign and trades and all that maybe could recoup

382
00:18:00,599 --> 00:18:04,519
a little bit, but the biggest benefit now I'm losing

383
00:18:04,559 --> 00:18:07,279
a guy is it's going to get you down under

384
00:18:07,319 --> 00:18:10,279
that second apron and that's going to make a challenging

385
00:18:10,319 --> 00:18:12,799
from a team building standpoint that you can't recoup assets

386
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,440
when guys walk, but that's going to allow for a

387
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,559
more competitive and balanced league. And you know, you might

388
00:18:18,559 --> 00:18:21,279
look at the Celtics as the last super team here.

389
00:18:21,599 --> 00:18:24,400
They got in ahead of these new rules and stacked

390
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,240
their roster and they're gonna feel the heat of those rules,

391
00:18:28,279 --> 00:18:30,559
but they're gonna have a good year two or three

392
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,079
here where they're going to be at the peak of contention.

393
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,400
And what's gonna happen after that tough to tell. But

394
00:18:36,519 --> 00:18:39,519
fortunately you have Brown locked up, you've Tatum locked up,

395
00:18:39,519 --> 00:18:42,200
and if those guys continue to grow, they might be

396
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,119
able to do more with less. And that's the plan

397
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:45,279
they're on right now.

398
00:18:45,319 --> 00:18:48,240
Speaker 1: Looking at the actual next season. And I'm assuming I

399
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:49,920
know the answer to this question, but what is the

400
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,880
biggest storyline that you're kind of tracking for this team

401
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,359
as they head into twenty twenty four twenty twenty five.

402
00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,960
Speaker 2: It's it's the Porzingis injury. Obviously, that's a massive one.

403
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,359
I don't think enough has been made about it.

404
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,559
Speaker 1: They had a until like twenty twenty like and it's

405
00:19:06,599 --> 00:19:08,480
just like, oh, he'll be re evaluated in six months.

406
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,119
When that came out that like puts him back at

407
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,920
like the reevaluation like late December, right, and it just

408
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,640
you're right, it feels like it's not I don't know

409
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,359
if it's because their record without him last year was

410
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,119
so good, but it feels like it hasn't been or

411
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,279
I mean they did win the how many games did

412
00:19:20,319 --> 00:19:21,680
he play in during their playoff run?

413
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,720
Speaker 2: He was like three or four? Four? Yeah, right, yeah,

414
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,920
so that's a big one. I they have the pieces

415
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:30,920
to sustain it. I'd be much more worried about it

416
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,079
if they didn't keep Tillman, which was the surprise of

417
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:34,799
the summer. They were able to get him two years

418
00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:37,240
at the minimum, So I think he's going to be

419
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,400
a major piece in how they sustain because Cornett. I'm

420
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,920
the biggest Cornett fan going, but there are matchups where

421
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,279
he can't play. So that you have a Tillman who

422
00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:51,200
basically has the opposite steel set of Cornett defensively, that's

423
00:19:51,279 --> 00:19:54,079
huge and he needs to take some steps. I think

424
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,480
his fit was a little awkward last year. He ended

425
00:19:56,559 --> 00:19:58,319
up having a big moment in the finals, but he's

426
00:19:58,319 --> 00:20:00,839
going to be crucial. You have options at that spot.

427
00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:03,160
I do wish Prissette was back in that mix a

428
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:04,839
little bit too. He was a guy who can let

429
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,359
you play a little smaller. But you got Anton Watson,

430
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,720
who I actually think has a shot if what we

431
00:20:10,759 --> 00:20:12,920
saw in some league translates to maybe playing when they're

432
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,200
super shorthanded, and then you have Horford at that point

433
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:17,720
of attack, which is gonna be the big one, right

434
00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:20,319
because I was looking last week, he played thirty minutes

435
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,039
a game when Porzingis was out there in the regular season.

436
00:20:23,599 --> 00:20:26,279
Obviously he's gonna play thirty forty minutes in the playoffs

437
00:20:26,279 --> 00:20:29,200
with Porzengis out. But during this regular season, where you're

438
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,920
probably trying to scale them back even more, not playing

439
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,119
back to backs, You're gonna have some situations where Porzengis,

440
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,799
many situations where Porzingis and Horford are out, both of them.

441
00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:41,759
So how do you sustain in those situations? Do you

442
00:20:41,799 --> 00:20:43,920
have enough depth at that spot? Through some of the

443
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,400
performances among those centers, the depth centers of surprise I

444
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,960
think across the board. Even Cato last year was effective

445
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,440
in his spots. Do those carry into this year or

446
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:54,839
A You're gonna take a little bit of a step

447
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,799
back in the regular season, and how much does that matter,

448
00:20:56,839 --> 00:20:59,440
And that goes to the second story I'm tracking, which

449
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,160
is the hangar over effect. How much of the commitment

450
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,319
to the roles that we saw last year carries over

451
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,559
to this year? Is there any relaxing? Is there any fatigue?

452
00:21:07,599 --> 00:21:09,799
I think that goes hand in hand with the Porzingis thing.

453
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,599
Speaker 1: How do you see I guess who do you think

454
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,839
ends up picking up the most slack in part of

455
00:21:14,839 --> 00:21:17,599
that secondary front court rotation? I know you mentioned Tilman.

456
00:21:18,039 --> 00:21:20,160
Are many fascinated by Cata like I feel like he's

457
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,799
shown some very interesting stuff defensively, especially on the perimeter.

458
00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:26,119
Do you like, like, how do you just sort of

459
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,000
see them like managing that? Who you think winds up

460
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,519
playing the bigger role? I mean in cordnet of courses

461
00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:33,279
and they already mentioned him just in that secondary front

462
00:21:33,279 --> 00:21:36,279
line rotation, especially during that time that Porzingis is out.

463
00:21:37,279 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 2: I think on the average night, Cornette will step into

464
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,839
the backup spot and they'll play him secondary minutes. That

465
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,319
worked great last year in most matchups you could put

466
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,400
Tilman in for some four minutes to play bigger. I

467
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,599
know they love playing bigger, and they went to that

468
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,000
Horford Tilman combination quite a bit. In the bench units

469
00:21:54,279 --> 00:21:56,440
last year. That's going to require that one of them

470
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,119
spaces the floor effectively. Horford's been able to do that,

471
00:21:59,559 --> 00:22:01,720
and then that puts Tillman close to the basketball. I

472
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,359
think he's going to be more effective. They had him

473
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,200
in the corner a lot last year, shooting a lot

474
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,160
of threes. I don't he needs to do it to

475
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,160
be a threat, but I don't think that's where he's

476
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,119
at his best. I'd like to see him playing more

477
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,279
of that center role in horford spacing if they're going

478
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,319
to play together. So I think all three of those

479
00:22:16,319 --> 00:22:17,799
guys are going to factor in, but again, they'll be

480
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,440
nice where Horford's out, and that's when I think you

481
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,240
see Kada and I was intrigued by what I saw

482
00:22:23,319 --> 00:22:25,640
from him at Summer League. Again, the finishing needs to

483
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,720
be a little more consistent when he gets his opportunities

484
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,839
in there, but the rebounding's great. The defense is coming along,

485
00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:35,559
and they, which was my biggest takeaway from Summer League,

486
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,119
tinkered with some different looks that suited him better out there.

487
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,440
They changed up their defense a little bit to make

488
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,400
him more comfortable. I think they moved him off ball

489
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,640
off some weaker offensive players, moved them away from the

490
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,759
five to be more of a help guy, and that

491
00:22:48,839 --> 00:22:51,160
worked well out there. He was able to block some shots,

492
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,400
able to take up space in the lane, and like

493
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,400
you said, he's a guy who can stand on the

494
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,680
perimeter in spots against certain guys. So I think that's

495
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,559
going to be the sweet spot for him this year.

496
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,680
And again, you could play him at the five next

497
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,559
to Horford if you want to play bigger. So he's underrated.

498
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,519
He was a great get last summer. I was so

499
00:23:10,599 --> 00:23:12,960
thrilled when they sign him, and then he ended up

500
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,599
showing everything he was capable of in those spots. There's

501
00:23:15,599 --> 00:23:17,960
still some weaknesses in his game. He's not the best defender.

502
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,160
His finishing I think has to be closer to seventy

503
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,200
percent rather than sixty or below. So that is going

504
00:23:25,279 --> 00:23:26,680
to be the key for him, is making the most

505
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,519
of those minutes, and he did last year. So I

506
00:23:28,599 --> 00:23:31,480
believe in all those guys. There's depth there, there's numbers,

507
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,160
there's a variety of skill sets. The porzingis injury was

508
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,839
going to be a bigger problem if you lost one

509
00:23:36,839 --> 00:23:38,519
of those guys, and the fact that they kept Cornet

510
00:23:38,599 --> 00:23:41,680
at the minimum tell them at the minimum, and then

511
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,799
you get Cayden sort of that howserd deal that they

512
00:23:43,839 --> 00:23:45,640
signed him to after they got him on the two way,

513
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,119
they could keep him inner control for three years. That

514
00:23:49,519 --> 00:23:52,000
is really good. They're in a great position there at

515
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,880
the five despite Porzingis being out.

516
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,079
Speaker 1: I normally use his time to go in detail on

517
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,519
like specific players, but the Celtics have so many just

518
00:23:58,599 --> 00:24:01,839
known commodities on the ross that these questions just they're

519
00:24:01,839 --> 00:24:04,119
the eleven of ten no notes team basically this year.

520
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, what makes.

521
00:24:05,519 --> 00:24:07,279
Speaker 1: Jason Tatum so divisive?

522
00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 2: What?

523
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: Like the whole this was the team USA discourse was

524
00:24:10,519 --> 00:24:13,200
off the rails, but like this has been something that's

525
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,640
been brewing, Like obviously not through the lens of his

526
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,000
what Steve Kerr doing or should he be playing? But

527
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,039
what makes him such a divisive star again on a

528
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:22,240
national scale for sure?

529
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I think I've been trying to

530
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,519
figure that out too. Maybe the fact that he plays

531
00:24:28,559 --> 00:24:31,160
for the Celtics and everyone who's not a Celtics fan

532
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,720
isn't crazy about the Celtics. Some people are, but for

533
00:24:34,759 --> 00:24:37,480
the most part, whether it's Lakers fans, heat fans, Nicks

534
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,400
all the way down, the line. People don't love the

535
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,559
Celtics league wide for a number of different reasons. Number two,

536
00:24:43,759 --> 00:24:47,599
I think he's a little boring, not as flashy as

537
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,480
some of these other stars. I think it showed most

538
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,880
in that whole Edwards Tatum discussion that almost became the

539
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,880
finals became a little bit of a thing on the

540
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,920
US team too, who is going to be that secondary

541
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,039
wing and Edwards ended up taking it. He, I think,

542
00:25:01,559 --> 00:25:07,240
is the more forceful, willing to assert himself or demanding

543
00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:10,680
of asserting himself, and the bigger personality obviously between the

544
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:16,160
two players, and for Tatum, more low key, more reserved,

545
00:25:16,759 --> 00:25:20,160
and more conciliatory in his approach. I think, like we

546
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,279
talked about earlier, his power through that whole run was

547
00:25:23,319 --> 00:25:26,240
his passing, and he deferred and he utilized the guys

548
00:25:26,279 --> 00:25:28,720
around him, and he didn't have the best individual performance

549
00:25:28,759 --> 00:25:31,559
on the way of the championship, but it was super effective.

550
00:25:31,599 --> 00:25:35,200
And so I don't want to compare him to Duncan

551
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,759
because I don't think there's any comparison there, But in

552
00:25:37,839 --> 00:25:40,440
terms of the way he affects the game, at least

553
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,599
on this last run, it was more Duncan esque in

554
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,960
terms of you have a ton of skills, you have

555
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,799
this width of impact, so rely on doing a little

556
00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:54,119
bit of everything rather than mastering one, especially scoring, and

557
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,920
that was what he did coming into the league. It's

558
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,119
what he did three four years ago, and so people

559
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:00,920
had that image of him, and it looks like that's

560
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,880
taking a decline, even though it's just been more him

561
00:26:04,079 --> 00:26:07,640
spreading himself out in terms of how he's impacting the game.

562
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,359
So I think there's an analytical approach with him that

563
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,160
he's taken on too, and that's frustrated even Celtics fans.

564
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,519
How many threes he's shooting, how few mid rangers he's

565
00:26:16,559 --> 00:26:18,240
going to. I think that can throw his rhythm a

566
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,480
little bit off too. If people are cutting off part

567
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,839
of his game at the rim or outside, the three

568
00:26:22,839 --> 00:26:27,240
point shot is certainly super inconsistent for him. So yeah,

569
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,680
there's some niche you can pick in his game. He's

570
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,119
not the best player in the league, and I think

571
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,279
that's part of it here too, is he's aspiring to

572
00:26:33,319 --> 00:26:36,079
get there. Some Celtics fans or fans of him think

573
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,599
he is, but he's not quite there yet. So you're

574
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,759
really drilling on the things with the parts of his

575
00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:44,160
game that are preventing him from getting to that spot,

576
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,880
and will you ever get there? Maybe he's only twenty

577
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:53,640
seven this year, this is the time for that, This

578
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,839
is go time for that. Right next three years here

579
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,400
can he get to that top echelon of the league.

580
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,240
But he's right there, and he has a width of impact,

581
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,680
as I keep saying that no other player at that

582
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,240
top level has maybe be honest, but Jannest can't shoot threes.

583
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,319
So the width of his impact is what I think

584
00:27:13,319 --> 00:27:16,440
his power is. So in some ways, he's what you know,

585
00:27:16,559 --> 00:27:19,119
master or none. Right, He's he's got all of these

586
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,279
different skills, but he isn't at the top echelon of

587
00:27:23,319 --> 00:27:24,480
any of them.

588
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love the phrasing of the width of

589
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,640
his impact. It does seem I feel like I'd be

590
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,400
more receptive to it if people were focusing on what

591
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,920
felt like legitimate criticism, like the you know, kind of

592
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,640
being a erratic on the off the dribble, three point

593
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,839
shots that become too much of a crutch at times.

594
00:27:38,839 --> 00:27:40,519
But it never seems to be focused there. I also

595
00:27:40,559 --> 00:27:43,160
wonder if any of this is sort of long standing

596
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,119
blowback from he just came into the league and was

597
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,680
so good and there might have been at times a

598
00:27:47,759 --> 00:27:50,680
rush to coordinate him to be in the same conversation

599
00:27:50,759 --> 00:27:53,160
as other top five to ten guys in the league,

600
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,599
and so did that condition people to doubt him? Or

601
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,599
is this just you know, he mentions the top of

602
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,759
the podcast, so they kind of fail and twenty twenty

603
00:28:00,759 --> 00:28:03,319
two like fail by reaching the finals and they lose.

604
00:28:03,599 --> 00:28:06,000
But it's like him and Jalen Brown, what feels been

605
00:28:06,039 --> 00:28:09,400
around for so long forever that perception like if he

606
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,519
doesn't get over the hump or if he's not, you know,

607
00:28:11,599 --> 00:28:14,279
the unquestioned most valuable player on his team because Jalen

608
00:28:14,279 --> 00:28:17,480
Brown wins Finals MVP. And I also think, finally, to

609
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,240
wrap up my own point, is I think collectively there

610
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,400
needs to be a better job of contextualizing a player's

611
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,799
impact because I probably would have picked Jason Tatum to

612
00:28:25,839 --> 00:28:28,799
win Finals MVP for me just because you mentioned the passing,

613
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,000
but also I really do value adaptability and the influence

614
00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:35,920
that your game or the attention you draw has on

615
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,599
everyone else on your team. And I don't think a

616
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,440
lot of the scoring performances that Jalen Brown has are

617
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,960
necessarily possible if Jason Tatum is not on his team

618
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,839
and drawing the you know, just the defensive attention that

619
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,480
he does. And so I find just the we reach

620
00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:50,400
this point sometimes with players, but it just feels like

621
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,839
the perception of him veers so far away from reality.

622
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,359
And I honestly don't understand. You mentioned his personality that

623
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,400
should make him like like that should depolarize him, and

624
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,000
so it's like this guy's like kind of quiet, and

625
00:29:03,039 --> 00:29:05,039
so like we're and we also aren't we at a

626
00:29:05,079 --> 00:29:08,680
point where people are questioning the value of heliocentric play.

627
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,359
It's like that's the problem with Trey Young is who

628
00:29:10,359 --> 00:29:12,559
can he fit with? That's why James Harden maybe hasn't

629
00:29:12,559 --> 00:29:15,599
aged as grace gracefully as he adapted it enough. But

630
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,759
Jason Tatum isn't that. But it seems like that's a

631
00:29:17,839 --> 00:29:20,680
problem that people have, is that he's not the heliocentric

632
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,599
type of star either. So I just find it. I've

633
00:29:23,599 --> 00:29:24,799
tried to wrap my head around it for like the

634
00:29:24,839 --> 00:29:26,480
past two years, and I still don't understand it.

635
00:29:27,359 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and those two styles went against each other in

636
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,519
the finals. Luca had to do everything for Dallas that

637
00:29:32,599 --> 00:29:36,960
warm out, and Tatum they keyed in on him and

638
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,160
he spread the ball around and edward to a four

639
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,319
to one final. So the consistency with him will be key.

640
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,359
He as we talked about earlier, when the stories of

641
00:29:45,359 --> 00:29:47,799
this year, can he stick to that style? Can he

642
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,640
continue to be a conciliatory player despite the criticism he's

643
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,640
receiving for his approach to the game and balancing that

644
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,039
analytical style with a little more freedom, a little more flexibility.

645
00:30:01,039 --> 00:30:03,799
I do have frustration sometimes with the way they utilize him.

646
00:30:04,119 --> 00:30:07,279
They make the game incredibly hard on him to allow

647
00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:10,279
for an easier game for everybody else, And yes, that's

648
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,559
effective for winning, but it probably does get frustrated for

649
00:30:13,559 --> 00:30:15,559
Tatum sometimes that he does have to deal with a

650
00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:18,119
double team every time, or see three bodies at the rim,

651
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,000
and he's got to hit shots like the step back

652
00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:22,640
threes and all that stuff to be able to get

653
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,160
his own and he's great at it, but it does

654
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,000
take a hit on his efficiency. Sometimes he does ride

655
00:30:28,079 --> 00:30:30,920
highs and lows with his own offense. But fortunately he

656
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,680
just seems so content doing what he needs to win,

657
00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:36,480
and that'll solve everything for him if he can stay

658
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,279
committed to him knock off multiple championships two or three

659
00:30:40,279 --> 00:30:43,839
and four years five years, and we talked about earlier.

660
00:30:43,839 --> 00:30:46,359
He is going to get back to a point where

661
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,799
his scoring, his ability to put the ball in the

662
00:30:49,799 --> 00:30:51,680
basket is going to have to drive this a little

663
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,559
bit more once they have less effective pieces around him.

664
00:30:55,599 --> 00:30:58,200
But for now, there's such a great team around him.

665
00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:03,640
Passes all day and his scoring takes a hit and

666
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,039
they're winning. I don't think any Celtics fans gonna have

667
00:31:06,079 --> 00:31:08,079
a problem with that, and there might be people have

668
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,119
issues with him on the outside in terms of how

669
00:31:10,119 --> 00:31:12,519
he approaches it, but I love what he did in

670
00:31:12,519 --> 00:31:15,160
the playoffs. The three point shooting concerns me a little

671
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,960
bit because it is so central to his game that

672
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,039
if that stays in the high twenties, that's going to

673
00:31:20,079 --> 00:31:22,079
be a problem. So that's definitely something to watch for

674
00:31:22,119 --> 00:31:25,240
this year. But everything else I thought hit the mark

675
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:26,000
in the playoffs.

676
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: You mentioned this a little bit already, but I want

677
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:29,880
to see if you can get into more detail. But

678
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,480
we'll kind of stood out to you most about Jalen

679
00:31:32,519 --> 00:31:34,599
Brown last year. Someone who at this level just to

680
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,240
continue incrementally improving year over year is kind of mind

681
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,599
blowing when you like from about an all NBA player

682
00:31:39,839 --> 00:31:41,680
and like, just continues to get better every single year

683
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,319
that he's been in the league. What kind of stood

684
00:31:43,319 --> 00:31:44,640
out to you the most though about how he was

685
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:45,440
playing last.

686
00:31:45,279 --> 00:31:50,519
Speaker 2: Year that we had that conversation in November after that

687
00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:54,440
Hornets game where he had a tough time fitting in,

688
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,880
shot selection, all the rest. Where's he going to get

689
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,599
his will he get lost all those concerns going into

690
00:32:00,599 --> 00:32:02,559
the year because he was the guy who would have

691
00:32:02,599 --> 00:32:05,720
the most difficult time adapting to this, everyone thought, And

692
00:32:05,759 --> 00:32:11,200
then he slid into that secondary role shot well, got

693
00:32:11,319 --> 00:32:13,160
it back into that mid range area where he was

694
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,480
so effective in twenty three and more importantly ended up

695
00:32:16,519 --> 00:32:18,319
being the finisher for this team. And I love the

696
00:32:18,319 --> 00:32:22,400
way he breaks open room protection by just going through guys.

697
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,759
The strength he played with last year on both ends

698
00:32:25,079 --> 00:32:28,160
showed from his offseason training, but he also cut down

699
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,319
the turnovers, and I thought, in spots looked like an

700
00:32:31,359 --> 00:32:35,759
effective secondary playmaker. Now you probably want to minimize the

701
00:32:35,759 --> 00:32:38,240
amount of time the balls in his hands, but he's

702
00:32:38,279 --> 00:32:41,160
not allowing himself to be boxed in to any single

703
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,359
role and that gave him flexibility too in this offense.

704
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,920
He could run some sets two years ago when he

705
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:48,920
was out there and Tatum was off. He was a

706
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,799
disaster that went better this year. They obviously had different

707
00:32:51,799 --> 00:32:54,000
guys that they could slide into second units with them too,

708
00:32:54,079 --> 00:32:57,839
But the biggest surprise of all was the two man

709
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,160
game with Porzingis and that unlocked him. That got Porzingis

710
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,000
involved consistently into some of those second units, and it

711
00:33:04,079 --> 00:33:06,200
ended up being one of the more pleasant surprises of

712
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,359
the early portion of last seasons that those two guys

713
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,359
played so well off each other, they became best friends.

714
00:33:12,119 --> 00:33:14,599
He found someone on the team that Brown really drived with,

715
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,000
and he seemed to just be more comfortable in Boston

716
00:33:17,039 --> 00:33:19,599
and on the team as a whole, and never settled.

717
00:33:20,079 --> 00:33:22,400
Kept pushing the vocal leadership from him. I think was

718
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,400
super important too, because that doesn't always seem to be

719
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,160
as natural for Tatum, and he said as much that

720
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,599
when Smart left, I had to step into that role,

721
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,759
and I loved the way he would challenge Tatum challenge

722
00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:35,839
the team. The defensive emphasis he set to start the

723
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,039
year I think was an important point a year ago

724
00:33:38,039 --> 00:33:40,759
when he signed the extension and he followed through with

725
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,839
defense that I think was the main reason he won

726
00:33:44,039 --> 00:33:47,279
Finals MVP on Luca there and throughout he took big assignments,

727
00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:51,720
so all that ended up being super surprising silenced a

728
00:33:51,759 --> 00:33:53,920
lot of the doubts in him. You look back to

729
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,880
where he was a year ago coming off these Finals

730
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,920
Game seven meltdown, and for him to win both Final

731
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,079
MVP and He's Finals MVP, those rewards usually just go

732
00:34:03,119 --> 00:34:05,880
by default to who people think is the best player

733
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,159
on the team, but that he had such staggering support

734
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,159
for both of those awards in the voting says a

735
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:14,079
lot about him, and he got back to a point

736
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:16,519
it looked like Tatum was separating himself as the most

737
00:34:16,519 --> 00:34:21,039
important central player on this team. Both of their flexibilities

738
00:34:21,079 --> 00:34:23,800
allowed either of them to be the star or the

739
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,519
option when necessary based on how defense is regarding them,

740
00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:29,599
or who had it that night or anything. And even

741
00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:31,320
as the playoffs went on, those guys got a lot

742
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,800
more connected. So I guess the most surprising thing about

743
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,400
Brown and Tatum this year is that they worked together.

744
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,880
I think that was a question or real question before,

745
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,159
and they made it work with each other. And now

746
00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:46,679
they're going to be teammates for the foreseeable future and

747
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,440
they're champions together, which was never certain. So for everybody

748
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,519
who believed in them and their ability to stay together

749
00:34:52,559 --> 00:34:55,880
and make it work. They got affirmed. And the Celtics,

750
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,639
who pretty much were willing to do anything but split

751
00:34:58,679 --> 00:35:01,519
those guys up, got affirm too in their belief in

752
00:35:01,519 --> 00:35:03,480
those two guys. And it looks important now because they're

753
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:04,880
the young ones. They're the guys who are going to

754
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,800
continue getting better, and they're the ones that keep them

755
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,119
in contention even after some of these older guys move on.

756
00:35:10,159 --> 00:35:12,079
Speaker 1: Brown did have the type of year that did like

757
00:35:12,119 --> 00:35:14,639
the passing and decision making on his drives, I thought

758
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,320
got a lot better. And then if you go back

759
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,960
and look like a few years ago what he could

760
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:21,599
do on the ball versus what he's doing now, I

761
00:35:21,639 --> 00:35:24,079
felt like his on ball attacks were faster, and just

762
00:35:24,119 --> 00:35:26,280
the level of counters he's added. This is not just

763
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,840
the last season thing, but like over the years, it's

764
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,400
it's almost unrecognizable and it's given me hope just based

765
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,920
off his you know, we progress isn't linear, but with

766
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,199
John Brown it feels like it has been linear. It's

767
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:38,599
kind of given me hope that like, oh, like maybe

768
00:35:38,639 --> 00:35:40,280
the handle will continue to get better and that there

769
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,199
is continued development as a playmaker, because, like you said,

770
00:35:43,199 --> 00:35:45,639
the assist percentage went up, the turnover percentage went down,

771
00:35:45,679 --> 00:35:48,079
and that's a big deal to have that happen in

772
00:35:48,119 --> 00:35:50,960
what was he year six? Is that what he was season?

773
00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:51,159
Speaker 2: So?

774
00:35:51,599 --> 00:35:54,599
Speaker 1: Ye? Year seven, Like that's a pretty big deal. And

775
00:35:54,639 --> 00:35:56,400
so it leaves me wondering, and I wouldn't normally wonder

776
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:57,840
that about someone who's been in the league so long.

777
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,320
I'm like, there might just be still more light that

778
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:01,320
he's going to uncover.

779
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 2: Well, hopefully he uncovers the free throw shooting, because that

780
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,840
is the one thing that took a dip last year

781
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,880
and at different points you're like, what is going It

782
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,559
felt like every time he stepped to the free throw

783
00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:15,239
line he split him. So that's something he has to

784
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,159
improve going in this year. The three is still a

785
00:36:17,159 --> 00:36:19,840
little low for the amount he shoots them. So those

786
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,280
are areas where I think he can improve, but he

787
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,440
makes up for in other areas. And the attention to

788
00:36:24,519 --> 00:36:27,519
defense has to carry forward to because it's so frustrating

789
00:36:27,519 --> 00:36:30,519
two years ago watch him with his physique, his size,

790
00:36:30,639 --> 00:36:34,239
his past success as a defender continued underwhelm there. But

791
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,039
credit to Miszula too, who I think put him in

792
00:36:36,079 --> 00:36:39,000
positions where he was focusing on one assignment, which is

793
00:36:39,039 --> 00:36:41,960
where his strength obviously is on that end, but continued

794
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,159
improvement in those three areas of what I'm looking for.

795
00:36:44,519 --> 00:36:47,159
Speaker 1: There's so many things that go into Boston's defense, and

796
00:36:47,199 --> 00:36:49,280
even though they don't you know, they're not finishing first

797
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,280
every year in points leve per position. There are the

798
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,760
defense that I watch, especially last season, where there's just

799
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,119
these long stretches of and I'm looking at it through

800
00:36:56,119 --> 00:36:59,000
an offensive lens lens, it just feels so hopeless to

801
00:36:59,159 --> 00:37:00,760
have to go up against them. If you had to

802
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,119
boil it down to like kind of the biggest driving

803
00:37:03,159 --> 00:37:05,239
force behind what makes them so good or this course

804
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,840
special defensively, what do you think it is?

805
00:37:09,199 --> 00:37:12,559
Speaker 2: Their ability to guard multiple positions, not having weak links

806
00:37:12,559 --> 00:37:14,719
out there, I think those are important. They don't have

807
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,639
any guys that you necessarily can play off the floor.

808
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,880
I think they take away the rim effectively too, which

809
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,119
you know, forces teams to shoot threes with guys who

810
00:37:26,159 --> 00:37:30,079
aren't as effective, and they almost you know, the way

811
00:37:30,119 --> 00:37:32,760
they play offensively where they're taking advantage of the weak link,

812
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,840
they almost do that defensively too, Like they'll expose a

813
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,239
guy who can't hurt them on offense, and whether it

814
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,360
was at Isaac Okoro in the second round, you know

815
00:37:42,679 --> 00:37:45,039
probably some other guys in Indiana that you could take

816
00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:48,639
advantage of in that sense, trading twos for threes, like

817
00:37:48,679 --> 00:37:50,480
I thought, one of the more impressive things. They play

818
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,159
a very analytical style on defense too, which frustrates me

819
00:37:53,199 --> 00:37:55,880
sometimes because you know, guys that are great mid range

820
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,880
shooters can take advantage of them a little bit. But

821
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,039
when you were allowing Moblei to go off and allowing

822
00:38:02,079 --> 00:38:04,679
Siakam to go off inside, that was taken away from

823
00:38:04,679 --> 00:38:07,039
those teams three point attacks and that gave the Celtics

824
00:38:07,039 --> 00:38:09,639
an advantage the other way. So that impressed me about

825
00:38:09,679 --> 00:38:13,159
Missoula last year's He tried doing that year one and

826
00:38:13,199 --> 00:38:16,559
it wasn't that effective. Porzingis helps you do. It takes

827
00:38:16,599 --> 00:38:19,519
away the rim more effectively. You can get some switching

828
00:38:19,559 --> 00:38:21,920
with Horford and the other guys out there, and that

829
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,760
obviously stems from you know, the EMA year where they

830
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,199
got really good at that, and a lot of those

831
00:38:26,199 --> 00:38:28,840
guys are still here who played in that system, so

832
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,519
they're able to do both and there's a flexibility on

833
00:38:31,559 --> 00:38:34,239
that end. And then Holiday's addition, who was the quarterback

834
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,400
of the defense and calling out things and letting them

835
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,599
get to some other looks A lot of times when

836
00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:40,679
they were going to zones and some other stuff, they

837
00:38:40,679 --> 00:38:43,079
were just doing that on the fine communicating it. You

838
00:38:43,119 --> 00:38:45,079
think back to what doing when they did it against

839
00:38:45,079 --> 00:38:47,280
the Pacers. You know guys I talked to there who

840
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,320
like you know, we didn't really have any plan or

841
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,400
any setup for how this was going to go. We

842
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,199
basically just went to his own and started communicating. And

843
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,480
so those are all things they do really well. That

844
00:38:57,599 --> 00:39:00,400
worked in Holiday. If you're going to replace Smart with anybody,

845
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,199
and I still think Smart was important to what they

846
00:39:02,199 --> 00:39:05,239
did defensively, but you would have picked Holiday, and Holiday

847
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,480
in some ways is more effective out there than Smart

848
00:39:08,519 --> 00:39:12,599
in terms of strength and experience and ability to guard

849
00:39:12,639 --> 00:39:17,000
all positions. So that, I mean, that was the cherry

850
00:39:17,039 --> 00:39:18,800
on top of how dominant they were last year, the

851
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,760
fact that they were able to go out and get him,

852
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,400
and unfortunately Brogden took such a dip after he left,

853
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,719
Rob immediately got hurt. So beyond how great it was

854
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,639
they got Holiday, they got off two guys who went

855
00:39:32,679 --> 00:39:35,039
in the wrong direction health wise. That you know, if

856
00:39:35,079 --> 00:39:36,920
you think they don't make that move and the same

857
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,360
thing happens with Brogden and Robbed that it did elsewhere,

858
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,400
You're not talking about a championship last year for this team,

859
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,639
So you get some luck. They got some luck with injuries,

860
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,440
they got some luck with that move. The Porzingis thing,

861
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,719
which was a gamble, went great. But there's luck involved

862
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,360
in all of this, and I can't think of anything

863
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,039
luckier than the Bucks decided to move on from Holiday

864
00:39:59,119 --> 00:40:02,039
and him lent up in the Celtics, and obviously you

865
00:40:02,119 --> 00:40:05,079
got to be aggressive, right, and Brad new we're gonna

866
00:40:05,079 --> 00:40:07,440
do whatever it takes. And it was you know, we

867
00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:09,920
debated it at the time, right, they gave up a lot? Well,

868
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:11,280
I looked like they gave up a lot.

869
00:40:11,639 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even go back and listen to the podcast

870
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,719
I record it with you last offseason because of just

871
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,000
how off I was on this, Like I wouldn't be

872
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,280
able to do it. We did our regrades on this podcast,

873
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,719
because we grade every offseason. Then we go back and

874
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,079
admit where we were wrong on everything. I was so low.

875
00:40:25,159 --> 00:40:26,840
I thought they had a playmaking depth sit. I was like, well,

876
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,239
it's persingis like he's injured. How are they gonna win

877
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,159
if like they you know, they bring him in and

878
00:40:31,199 --> 00:40:32,960
he's going to play a crucial role. Is he going

879
00:40:33,039 --> 00:40:35,760
to accept like a good enough offensive role after being

880
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,199
in Washington and being featured so heavily for two years

881
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,679
or whatever it was that stuff aged like milk, It

882
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:42,639
was so bad. They just answered everything and like in

883
00:40:42,679 --> 00:40:44,079
the affirmative, it was incredible.

884
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was so great too, and transition smoothly

885
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,639
into a smaller role still kept up that post dominance

886
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,079
that he had in Washington. The post numbers for him

887
00:40:55,079 --> 00:40:57,239
are just silly every time he looked at them, and

888
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,039
it felt like every time he put the ball up

889
00:40:59,039 --> 00:41:00,960
it went in from wherever he was on the floor.

890
00:41:02,079 --> 00:41:04,719
That's definitely something to watch this year is does that

891
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,880
maintain once he gets back, Can he stay healthy or

892
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,039
is that going to start to be something that cuts

893
00:41:10,039 --> 00:41:12,239
into this team's dominance is the fact that he's in

894
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:13,800
and out of the lineup and he's dealing with a

895
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,159
bunch of stuff all the time. And is he that

896
00:41:16,199 --> 00:41:18,480
same guy, the same dominant guy with the rhythm and

897
00:41:18,519 --> 00:41:21,519
everything else he developed the strength once he gets back.

898
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,280
Everything I'm hearing is that that's an injury that isn't

899
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,079
going to have lingering effects once it's healed. So that's

900
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:33,199
a positive there, because every piece that you have here

901
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,559
adds to their level of dominance, and once you take

902
00:41:35,599 --> 00:41:37,360
it away, I feel like the rum Ferry just gets

903
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,480
a little smaller. And obviously the league's better this year.

904
00:41:39,519 --> 00:41:41,519
I feel like I'm not gonna sit here and say

905
00:41:41,559 --> 00:41:43,760
easiest run ever and all that like some other people did.

906
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,800
But they did get some breaks along the way, and

907
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,079
you always do go in to a championship if there's dominated.

908
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 1: I've never understood that framing, Like I'm not saying that

909
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:53,840
you had it. I just okay, it's not like they

910
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:55,960
won every It took them seven games to win every

911
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,440
series against the relatively easy They just dominated. Like it's

912
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,079
like with the nugg did in twenty twenty three, it

913
00:42:02,159 --> 00:42:04,360
was maybe the whole thing. Okay, there was only one

914
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,320
great team and it was the Nuggets and they like

915
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,679
showed us. So I kind of I like, I can't

916
00:42:08,679 --> 00:42:10,559
even listen to the frame of like, yeah, did get easy,

917
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,119
Like they didn't get easy. They did get lucky, like

918
00:42:13,159 --> 00:42:16,159
you said, every team gets lucky somehow. Un Rout two championship.

919
00:42:16,159 --> 00:42:19,320
They just absolutely just basically trucked everybody.

920
00:42:20,039 --> 00:42:23,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they did. And the tough part is the

921
00:42:23,159 --> 00:42:27,400
guys that went down on the other side, because if

922
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,000
Butler's in that first round, it's a series, right, It's

923
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,280
not a series without him, it is with him. Mitchell,

924
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,079
that was a little bit of a series. It probably

925
00:42:37,119 --> 00:42:39,239
was gonna go Celtics and six or something like that,

926
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,880
five six even with him, But it's not a series

927
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,440
anymore when Mitchell goes down there and Alan never even played.

928
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,400
And then in round three Hal burns everything that makes

929
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,360
the Pacers go. Nemhart did his thing and teach him.

930
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,119
McConnell turned in the effing Jordan, as Jalen said, So

931
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,119
it wasn't easy, right. I think that Pacers series is

932
00:42:58,119 --> 00:43:01,639
actually incredibly difficult, and I think the Cavs series prepared

933
00:43:01,679 --> 00:43:03,440
them well for what they saw later on because their

934
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,719
defense is so good. But it's crazy still to look

935
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,599
back on the three teams you played in the East,

936
00:43:10,679 --> 00:43:13,239
all losing their best player. That's not going to happen

937
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:13,599
this year.

938
00:43:13,639 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 1: I don't think, probably say bet to make do you

939
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,880
have any early impressions of Baylor Shireman?

940
00:43:23,079 --> 00:43:25,159
Speaker 2: I like him. I don't know if he's ready. I

941
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,519
like his skill set though, I like that he's older

942
00:43:27,679 --> 00:43:30,079
season polished. I think this team needs a guy like

943
00:43:30,119 --> 00:43:32,800
that the Romeos and thees Smiths of the world that

944
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,159
didn't work with this group. They need someone who's a

945
00:43:35,199 --> 00:43:37,960
little more ready to step in and hit shots, bring

946
00:43:38,039 --> 00:43:41,000
some secondary skills to the table if he's not hitting shots.

947
00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:45,440
And defensively, I think he at least has the body

948
00:43:45,519 --> 00:43:47,519
to develop on that end, and so it's going to

949
00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:52,400
take time. I think the the average night is going

950
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,519
to have him sitting on the bench, but there will

951
00:43:54,559 --> 00:43:57,960
be nights where he's when guys are resting or guys

952
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,840
are down in that mix, you know, probably in like

953
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,199
the Spema hiloprawl where if two guys are down, he

954
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:05,800
might be in the mix a little bit there. So

955
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,039
I don't think you're going to see a ton of

956
00:44:07,119 --> 00:44:10,039
him this year. Defensively, I think it's going to be

957
00:44:10,119 --> 00:44:12,960
less houser where they let him float and guard the

958
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,159
best guys one on one and more of them having

959
00:44:15,199 --> 00:44:18,119
to hide him. So that could limit him a little

960
00:44:18,119 --> 00:44:19,880
bit in terms of how much he plays your one.

961
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,039
But it's gonna be awesome when he's up in Maine,

962
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:23,440
I do think he'll be in Maine a little bit

963
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,400
working on that. Just seeing him run the offense do

964
00:44:27,559 --> 00:44:29,440
what he does with his passing with the ball in

965
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,440
his hands, I do think it makes sense that he's

966
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,519
more angles and less houser. He's a guy I think

967
00:44:34,519 --> 00:44:36,239
that needs the ball in his hands to get his

968
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,639
shots off, and you know, he's left to develop that

969
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,239
catch and shoot skill a little bit playing in this offense.

970
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,280
But for thirty to get a guy who's a bona

971
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,039
fide shooter who shoots some distance. He was shooting from

972
00:44:47,039 --> 00:44:49,639
half court some of those summer league games, and with

973
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,599
a secondary ball handling skill and with some secondary rebounding skills,

974
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:55,960
it's really exciting because normally a guy like that, you

975
00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:58,280
think would be a specialist who doesn't do anything else.

976
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,400
But he even if he's not the greatest shooter in

977
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,719
the world, even if he's not a houser, can get

978
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:05,840
some other stuff to help him impact the game. So

979
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,079
I think he's got a great IQ. I think he's

980
00:45:08,119 --> 00:45:11,599
got great seasoning. He's had to develop through every level.

981
00:45:11,639 --> 00:45:13,400
He had a leap from that like low D one

982
00:45:13,519 --> 00:45:17,599
level to the Big East and now going from that

983
00:45:17,639 --> 00:45:19,679
to the NBA going to be another challenge, but I

984
00:45:19,679 --> 00:45:21,159
think he's up for and I think he's a good

985
00:45:21,159 --> 00:45:24,239
fit for what they need. It's still crazy to me

986
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:25,719
that they got him at thirty. I thought he was

987
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:26,800
going to be gone in the twenties.

988
00:45:27,119 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: When you look at the rest of the East, how

989
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,000
would you rank like the biggest threats to Boston leading

990
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,679
into the season where you have New York, Philly, I

991
00:45:34,679 --> 00:45:37,239
would throw Cleveland in there, and you have Milwaukee as well,

992
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,719
and then if there's like a fifth team, whether it's

993
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:41,840
the Indie or Miami or Orlando, of it all, like,

994
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:43,840
how do you looking at it through that lens? Who

995
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,800
do you consider like the most intriguing even if you

996
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,239
don't consider them real threats, but the most intriguing or

997
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:50,599
pivotal matchups for Boston.

998
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, they declined both of them last year, but I

999
00:45:54,119 --> 00:45:56,480
can never get past the Bucks and the Heat, who

1000
00:45:56,559 --> 00:46:00,239
I think have played the Celtics more difficult than any

1001
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,239
other teams in the East in recent years. Philly had

1002
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,320
a little run early last year, but I'm always concerned

1003
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,000
about Embiid's health. So this is tough to do in

1004
00:46:07,039 --> 00:46:10,119
a vacuum because I think Philly can be two if

1005
00:46:10,159 --> 00:46:14,119
Embiid's healthy, but that hasn't been the case. Milwaukee I

1006
00:46:14,119 --> 00:46:17,360
think has every capability of being too given what Giannis

1007
00:46:17,679 --> 00:46:19,679
brings to the table. And if they're healthy, and I

1008
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,440
think they made some nice depth editions too full off

1009
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,440
season for the coaching staff, beyond all the turbulence that

1010
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,599
happened last year, They'd probably be my bet to go to.

1011
00:46:29,559 --> 00:46:32,880
I'll give the Knicks the benefit of the doubt at three,

1012
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,960
because I think that team that takes the regular season

1013
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:37,960
seriously in terms of being a threat to Boston, though

1014
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,679
I worry about their center depth. I worry about Brunson's

1015
00:46:41,679 --> 00:46:44,119
ability to repeat what he did last year because I

1016
00:46:44,159 --> 00:46:46,119
think that's going to be necessary for him to knock

1017
00:46:46,119 --> 00:46:48,800
off the Celtics. And Randall's back in the mix, who

1018
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,480
I wouldn't say they're better without, but they found a

1019
00:46:51,519 --> 00:46:54,440
style without him that suited them well and allowed them

1020
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,679
to do what they did last year, So I think

1021
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,920
there's some questions there despite how exciting their offseason was.

1022
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:05,480
I'll put Philly four. I will put Cleveland five. I

1023
00:47:05,519 --> 00:47:08,599
still believe in Cleveland still. I don't like that they

1024
00:47:08,639 --> 00:47:10,920
fired their coach, but might be able to take on

1025
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:15,280
a more offensive mindset under Atkinson. Fine replacement, so that

1026
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,039
sometimes is necessary, and it kept their cast together, which

1027
00:47:18,039 --> 00:47:20,800
I think was important. I like their draft pick too,

1028
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,000
Jalen Tyson. I'm usually high on Cleveland, and then I

1029
00:47:24,039 --> 00:47:27,000
think you got to put Indiana at six after what

1030
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,000
they did last year. But Miami's creeping there too. I'm

1031
00:47:30,039 --> 00:47:33,199
not ruling out Miami yet, though, I'll I'll.

1032
00:47:33,039 --> 00:47:35,039
Speaker 1: Do it for you. We're ruling out Miami on this pot.

1033
00:47:35,039 --> 00:47:36,639
I'm ruling out Miami on this podcast.

1034
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,599
Speaker 2: I'll put them at seven just because the Butler thing's weird,

1035
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:43,239
and if that gets really weird, look up below so

1036
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:45,960
and then eighths wide open with a bunch of teams.

1037
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,079
I think Charlotte could be an up and comer this year.

1038
00:47:48,119 --> 00:47:50,559
I like what they're doing, but no one's a threat

1039
00:47:50,599 --> 00:47:53,800
below that seven line or even able to compete with

1040
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,320
Boston below that seven minds, so it's still a relatively

1041
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,599
thin conference. I still think Boston's in a class of

1042
00:48:00,599 --> 00:48:04,079
their own in this conference. But the Bucks, you know,

1043
00:48:04,159 --> 00:48:06,079
if I'm stacking up, I've I've said this a bunch

1044
00:48:06,119 --> 00:48:07,760
of times. I hope I can remember them. I thought

1045
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,239
the five teams that played them best last year were Denver,

1046
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:17,440
Oklahoma City, Minnesota, Philadelphia, and Milwaukee. Milwaukee obviously destroyed them

1047
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,360
twice on their home courts. Some wacky scheduling stuff there

1048
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,800
and I don't even remember who played in those games,

1049
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,760
but still two dominant wins. I think Johannis went down

1050
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,360
the second one too, so I still respect Milwaukee. Middle

1051
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:33,719
Thing's health is going bad and that could end up

1052
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:35,599
costing them an ability to contend well.

1053
00:48:35,599 --> 00:48:37,800
Speaker 1: He always seems to be ready just in time to

1054
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:38,239
go off.

1055
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,039
Speaker 2: He was good last year. He was good, but then

1056
00:48:40,039 --> 00:48:42,079
he has two ankle of surgeries this summer. It's like,

1057
00:48:42,119 --> 00:48:42,599
what the hell?

1058
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:44,559
Speaker 1: We still hadn't ruled out they could have been by

1059
00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:46,039
one get one. We don't know. Maybe the other one

1060
00:48:46,079 --> 00:48:47,760
was fine, but it was just taking advantage of the

1061
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,280
type opportunity. I think I agree with you that the Bucks,

1062
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,199
because the Bucks and the Sixers I think are the

1063
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,880
two biggest toughest matchups for the Celtics. It's just a

1064
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:58,800
question of their health. And I think I have less

1065
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:00,760
questions even though Yhanna has been up the past two

1066
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,159
years in the postseason, the embeat of it all, like,

1067
00:49:03,199 --> 00:49:07,119
I have fewer questions about Milwaukee staying healthy or Kuwalm's concerns.

1068
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,400
And for the Knicks, I their depth and just like

1069
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,559
their talent. It makes so much sense, but I worry.

1070
00:49:13,599 --> 00:49:16,079
You know, you mentioned Brunson replicating what he did last year.

1071
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,880
I agree, But even if he does, that's where you

1072
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:20,880
get into the Julius Randall. The roster construction of it

1073
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,079
all is like do they have enough offensive options to

1074
00:49:23,119 --> 00:49:27,599
go after Boston's defense, like beyond Brunson, And you've now

1075
00:49:27,639 --> 00:49:30,480
decided that Julius Randall needs to be that guy because

1076
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:31,760
you went all in on mcal Bridges.

1077
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,559
Speaker 2: Who I would have kept Isaiah Hartenstein over Randall.

1078
00:49:36,599 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 1: There was like they wouldn't needed cap space to get

1079
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,760
it done. It's like you couldn't. Now you're chopping off

1080
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,199
more than Randall at that point, like Oakraham City offered

1081
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,119
more than they could have. So I if you asked

1082
00:49:48,119 --> 00:49:49,840
me that question, if it wasn't an issue of could

1083
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,440
they actually like feasibly have done that, I might have

1084
00:49:52,519 --> 00:49:55,079
agreed with you. But I still think even then, if

1085
00:49:55,079 --> 00:49:57,679
you're shifting mcale bridges into the number two kind of

1086
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:01,840
like best scorer role, I just yeah, and that's the question,

1087
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:03,880
and I think going up against Boston's defense, like they're

1088
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,079
just gonna be nights. I would assume that Jalen Brunson

1089
00:50:06,119 --> 00:50:08,440
isn't going to have the best night. We've seen Julius

1090
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:10,679
ran on the postseason with the Knicks twice. It has

1091
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:14,239
never been good. So I feel like they might have

1092
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,320
the collection of talent that at its peak is the

1093
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:18,400
biggest threat to Boston.

1094
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 2: I just they have the best personel for sure. You

1095
00:50:21,519 --> 00:50:24,519
have multiple wing defenders. You have a big center who

1096
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:28,880
I've been back and forth on Robinson, but he's hurt

1097
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:30,679
them in the past and he has ways they can

1098
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:32,760
hurt the Celtics, but it's putting a lot on him

1099
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,360
to do everything at that spot. So they have the pieces.

1100
00:50:36,599 --> 00:50:39,000
They have the coaching, they have the star. You know,

1101
00:50:39,079 --> 00:50:41,199
if you're talking who's the best player in a series,

1102
00:50:41,559 --> 00:50:43,679
you might get into that series if Brunson repeats what

1103
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,360
he did last year and say, Brunson, it's possible at

1104
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:48,400
least And then you need to have a guy who

1105
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:51,039
it's at least possible going into the series, can be

1106
00:50:51,079 --> 00:50:53,679
the best player. So they have all of that and

1107
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,480
a great home court too. I'm still super bumm. We

1108
00:50:56,519 --> 00:51:00,000
needn't get that Nick Celtics East Finals. Maybe we'll get

1109
00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:03,599
it this year, but I have questions about them. I

1110
00:51:03,639 --> 00:51:05,599
think it's going to be difficult for them to repeat

1111
00:51:05,639 --> 00:51:07,679
what they did last year, and they got so battered

1112
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:09,599
injury wise by the end two. I think that's a

1113
00:51:09,639 --> 00:51:13,519
real question. So here's the thing. Celtics beat them handily

1114
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,159
first four times they played last year. They got destroyed

1115
00:51:17,159 --> 00:51:20,000
in the fifth one OG played. It only game OG

1116
00:51:20,159 --> 00:51:23,239
played between them, but the Celtics were already clinched up.

1117
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:24,800
And that's you know what a lot of Celtics fans

1118
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:26,239
throw back at me when I bring that up, and

1119
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,199
it's fair. So what does that look like this time around?

1120
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:32,639
You're adding Bridges another significant addition. He's a star in

1121
00:51:32,679 --> 00:51:35,760
a secondary role as he was in Phoenix. So I'm

1122
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,559
super intrigued by it. If we're sitting there, and you know,

1123
00:51:38,599 --> 00:51:40,400
it might even be my pick, if we're sitting there

1124
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,480
in May and it's Celtics next East Finals or second round.

1125
00:51:43,519 --> 00:51:46,360
However it stacks up, it's going to be a battle.

1126
00:51:46,599 --> 00:51:50,079
And again, you caught some breaks last year, some guys

1127
00:51:50,119 --> 00:51:52,400
were out. You get into a series against the fully

1128
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,599
loaded Knicks, you're gonna have to earn every bit of that,

1129
00:51:56,079 --> 00:51:59,559
and I'm looking forward to something like that this time around.

1130
00:52:00,039 --> 00:52:02,280
Brad said it right, and I think, you know, when

1131
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:06,599
Brad talks, I always listen. He's like, it's gonna be

1132
00:52:06,679 --> 00:52:09,400
much harder this time. It's gonna be much much harder.

1133
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,039
And I think that's what Celtics fans have to prepare

1134
00:52:12,079 --> 00:52:13,880
for going in this year. There's a world where they

1135
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,559
start twenty seven and three or something ridiculous like that,

1136
00:52:16,599 --> 00:52:19,719
like the O nine team did, because they're just so

1137
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:22,519
connected and confident. They got that weight off their shoulders.

1138
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,079
But I just think, and you know, we can go

1139
00:52:26,119 --> 00:52:27,960
through the schedule whatever and actually look at how it

1140
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:29,800
lines up. I think the opening weeks of the season

1141
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:34,760
aren't super difficult, but I think porzingis being out them

1142
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,599
managing things, fatigue a little bit, maybe even a championship

1143
00:52:38,599 --> 00:52:41,880
hangover effect. I think it's going to actually challenge them

1144
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,360
more early on to stay focused, stay locked in. I

1145
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:48,920
think one of our guys, Wayne Spooney on Celens actually

1146
00:52:49,039 --> 00:52:52,679
taught saw Joe Mizzooli give a speech at West Virginia

1147
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:54,559
last week. I think it was and one of the

1148
00:52:54,639 --> 00:52:56,679
things he was saying that Missoul was talking about was

1149
00:52:57,679 --> 00:52:59,920
so many teams that have won over the last hand

1150
00:53:00,079 --> 00:53:02,599
fully years here went down by the second round, And

1151
00:53:02,639 --> 00:53:05,159
he says he's been searching all off season, why does

1152
00:53:05,199 --> 00:53:08,559
that happen? How can we prevent this? And he's very

1153
00:53:08,599 --> 00:53:11,119
alert to the fact that, Yeah, there's a real hangover

1154
00:53:11,159 --> 00:53:13,800
effect here. Teams are coming for them, I think, to

1155
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:15,800
some real teams that can challenge them in the East

1156
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,679
if they're healthy. The Celtics off the bat aren't healthy.

1157
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:20,920
So not that I'm saying they're gonna start ten to

1158
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,239
ten or anything like that, but I think you just

1159
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:25,840
gotta mentally prepare. It's gonna be difficult. It's gonna be

1160
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,280
very hard to repeat. No one's done it since the Warriors, right,

1161
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:33,159
and the Warriors were stacked. This team's not quite stacked

1162
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:37,119
that way that those Warriors were. So it's gonna be

1163
00:53:37,159 --> 00:53:38,639
a battle. It's gonna be a fun one to watch.

1164
00:53:38,679 --> 00:53:41,760
Speaker 1: So I do wonder if they're less susceptible to the

1165
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,880
championship hangover, because I view Derek White, Drew Holliday and

1166
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,400
Joe Mizzoola is just fucking sickos. And then you have

1167
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,559
Jason Tatum. Does he use whatever happened with tam USA

1168
00:53:51,639 --> 00:53:53,800
and the discourse is fuel. And then Jalen Brown as

1169
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:55,800
he used the fact that he wasn't picked for Team

1170
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,159
USA is fuel. And so I never know how to

1171
00:53:58,199 --> 00:54:01,000
measure those things because they're so intangible, Like does this team,

1172
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:04,480
for a reigning champion, have more just like individual pieces

1173
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,079
to overcome that championship?

1174
00:54:06,079 --> 00:54:06,199
Speaker 2: Haick.

1175
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 1: I might just be more worried about fatigue because you

1176
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:11,559
had three guys playing on the Olympic, Like, that's just

1177
00:54:11,599 --> 00:54:13,000
a lot of basketball and.

1178
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,599
Speaker 2: You have to manage that. I think like Brad has

1179
00:54:15,639 --> 00:54:19,639
to insert himself this year and say Tatum sitting out

1180
00:54:19,679 --> 00:54:22,480
this game, Drew's sitting out this game. They did a

1181
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:24,239
better job of it last year, but I think there's

1182
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:28,000
another length they could even go to to say and it.

1183
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,039
Speaker 1: Easy play every game, Like that's someone who was like

1184
00:54:30,079 --> 00:54:31,039
I don't like he's.

1185
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 2: Even Yeah, Horford doesn't even want to sit out, Like

1186
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:35,559
you gotta you gotta convince Horford probably to step back

1187
00:54:35,599 --> 00:54:39,199
to like twenty five minutes a night with poor zengis out.

1188
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:41,440
So that's all stuff they're gonna have to figure out

1189
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,679
how to manage. I think they're already thinking about it too,

1190
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,679
you know, that's all very scientific stuff that I think

1191
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:51,920
there's numbers and stuff attached to, so you know, credit

1192
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:53,880
to them. They came out pretty healthy last year and

1193
00:54:54,039 --> 00:54:56,760
didn't have any major injuries besides the freak porzingis one.

1194
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,960
So they handled that well last year. They're gonna have

1195
00:54:59,960 --> 00:55:01,480
to handle it even better this time around.

1196
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 1: You know what, I didn't include this in the outline

1197
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,480
I sent you, But what do you like? The people

1198
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:08,760
don't talk about this enough. How big of a loss

1199
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,199
is Charles Lee for this team?

1200
00:55:11,679 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 2: I think it's a real loss. I think he brought

1201
00:55:14,519 --> 00:55:19,079
a championship experience. I'm sure some defensive chops from his

1202
00:55:19,159 --> 00:55:22,719
time with Boonholzer, who's a great defensive coach. I think

1203
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,320
Heibby was a personality that helped settle this team down

1204
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,159
a nice loose one compared to Joe's fire. It's always

1205
00:55:29,199 --> 00:55:33,199
tough to track or quantify what that means losing a

1206
00:55:33,199 --> 00:55:35,679
guy like that. They certainly didn't bring in any major,

1207
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,159
bonafide assistant to replace him. They brought in a couple

1208
00:55:38,199 --> 00:55:43,039
of developmental guys and sham Gott and you know another

1209
00:55:43,079 --> 00:55:46,880
guy whose name I can't remember from Missoli's West Virginia days.

1210
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:50,519
But Casselle's moving up a seat. Nice to still have

1211
00:55:50,599 --> 00:55:56,920
him here. Mcclay's there, Tony Dobbins, you know, my guy

1212
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:00,000
with the with the replay. I wish I can't remember

1213
00:56:00,079 --> 00:56:01,400
his name off the top. I'm gonna have to look

1214
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:03,800
it out because I want to disrespect him. But they

1215
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:08,199
got some great assistance here. But Lee was a big one.

1216
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,639
I thought that addition was huge. I thought he's been

1217
00:56:10,639 --> 00:56:14,039
a great coach, head coaching caliber guy for years now

1218
00:56:14,039 --> 00:56:16,559
across the league. He would have been my choice if

1219
00:56:16,639 --> 00:56:18,639
they moved on from his HULU last year. It'd actually

1220
00:56:18,679 --> 00:56:22,480
take over this team. So I think he's gonna do awesome.

1221
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,079
And Charlotte, I think that's something I'm more sure about

1222
00:56:25,119 --> 00:56:27,800
than how this is going to affect the Celtics. But

1223
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:29,519
I do think it's something to look at because it's

1224
00:56:29,519 --> 00:56:32,760
something no one's talking about. And it was probably the

1225
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:35,599
biggest loss of the offseason on this team, almost definitely

1226
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,360
was because they didn't lose much. Yeah, so I think

1227
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:42,199
it's something to look at. And you know, if anything

1228
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:44,559
slips up here or there, you can't start to think

1229
00:56:44,599 --> 00:56:45,920
in the back of your head, oh all right, they

1230
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:47,679
just lost a little bit of that brain power going

1231
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:50,840
in next year. Remember, obviously they lost e May that

1232
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,679
year too, but they lost will Hardy after the first

1233
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:56,920
year they would run in the finals, and you know,

1234
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,760
both of those guys going out the door had a

1235
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:03,480
made effect and you didn't quite have the replacements to

1236
00:57:03,519 --> 00:57:06,639
come in and make up for it. It's tough to

1237
00:57:06,639 --> 00:57:09,199
compare those two situations because that first one was just

1238
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:12,199
so crazy. But it matters. It's just how much does

1239
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:13,000
it matter? It might not?

1240
00:57:13,679 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 1: Are you ready to enter the lightning round? Cookie Cutter

1241
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:16,920
portion of the podcast?

1242
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 2: Sure?

1243
00:57:18,599 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 1: Is there anything about this team that we haven't discussed

1244
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:23,480
that you think is flying under the radar that should

1245
00:57:23,559 --> 00:57:24,440
still be talked about?

1246
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 2: Ooh, under the radar? I guess just the age, the

1247
00:57:32,639 --> 00:57:36,519
age of the roster, the guys around the the ancillary

1248
00:57:36,559 --> 00:57:40,880
pieces around Brown and Tatum, Horford thirty eight, White just

1249
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:44,679
turned thirty, Holidays thirty four. That all matters. Those guys

1250
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,719
have some miles. Those guys have been through a bunch

1251
00:57:47,719 --> 00:57:50,679
of bumps and bruises, huge minutes. Horford in particular, and

1252
00:57:50,719 --> 00:57:55,079
I hate doubting Horford because I think he always surprises

1253
00:57:55,119 --> 00:57:57,599
everybody and he just takes such great care of himself.

1254
00:57:57,639 --> 00:58:00,480
And he's on the Brady thing, so I don't think

1255
00:58:00,519 --> 00:58:03,519
there's any serious concern of a Horford slippage. But every

1256
00:58:03,599 --> 00:58:06,920
year you get up there, now it's thirty eight, there's

1257
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:09,199
a little bit of a decline, and you know you

1258
00:58:09,239 --> 00:58:10,800
see it in him. I thought when he had to

1259
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,119
play more games in less days, he slowed down quite

1260
00:58:14,159 --> 00:58:16,639
a bit. There were some stretches in the playoffs where

1261
00:58:16,639 --> 00:58:18,880
he went really cold the Cleveland series up until his

1262
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:23,679
Game five breakout. But he's resilient. He bounces back. This

1263
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,719
is the overarching thing I'm looking at this year, though,

1264
00:58:26,719 --> 00:58:29,199
is how the health and the age of the roster

1265
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:31,199
come into play around the two stars.

1266
00:58:31,639 --> 00:58:35,119
Speaker 1: What does and when Chris SOPs porzingis is available? What

1267
00:58:35,159 --> 00:58:38,119
does the top ten rotation look like for this team?

1268
00:58:38,159 --> 00:58:40,639
It feels like they have eight or maybe nine locks

1269
00:58:40,679 --> 00:58:41,079
for it.

1270
00:58:42,639 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got your five Horford off the bench. How'ser

1271
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:49,119
Pitcher brings you to eight and then Cornett and Tilman

1272
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:52,159
trading off that nine ten spot is probably how you

1273
00:58:52,199 --> 00:58:52,679
look at it.

1274
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call my shot for Cada to have one

1275
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:56,480
of those spots by the end of the.

1276
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:59,239
Speaker 2: Sear Think, all right, is he a playoff guy? By

1277
00:58:59,239 --> 00:58:59,760
the end of it.

1278
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 1: I think he can be like, there's clearly still issues there.

1279
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:05,480
I might just be reading too much into what I

1280
00:59:05,519 --> 00:59:06,599
saw from him in Summer League.

1281
00:59:06,639 --> 00:59:08,599
Speaker 2: I think that's a health thing. You know, Corneck gets

1282
00:59:08,679 --> 00:59:11,760
hurt sometimes. That'd be a big opportunity for Cada.

1283
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:13,559
Speaker 1: Is the crunch time unit this team has known, like

1284
00:59:13,559 --> 00:59:15,320
there's gonna be no floughts again. Fiddling with the crunch

1285
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:17,000
time unit at full striketh like it's gonna be kind

1286
00:59:17,039 --> 00:59:19,400
of the same deal as they figured it out last year.

1287
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:24,159
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, you do some porzingis Horford swapping depending on

1288
00:59:24,199 --> 00:59:26,840
how the game's going or with the opposing teams throwing

1289
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,880
out there. But yeah, the other four relocks.

1290
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 1: This is also kind of an interesting question for this

1291
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,519
team specifically because there was so little turnover. But is

1292
00:59:33,519 --> 00:59:35,800
there any like weird or funky lineups you'd like to

1293
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:37,360
see Mizoula try this year.

1294
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,599
Speaker 2: Yeah. You always think about that small ball one they

1295
00:59:40,599 --> 00:59:43,440
got two against the Pacers. That's gonna be a little

1296
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:46,079
more difficult, I think this year because you're probably missing

1297
00:59:46,079 --> 00:59:48,760
an extra wing to slot in. You could do some

1298
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:52,360
three guard stuff there with Prichard and go super small,

1299
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:55,159
but it can tat him get to that five spot

1300
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:57,840
at times. That might even help his offense a little bit,

1301
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:00,360
being able to play against the fives and fours and

1302
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:04,719
you play fast defensively, it's tough. You're really gonna ask

1303
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:06,480
a lot out of Tatum to guard those fives, but

1304
01:00:06,519 --> 01:00:08,880
he did it in the Indiana series. I think there's

1305
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,599
some fives that focus more on shooting, like Miles Turner,

1306
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:15,159
who he can guard effectively. So yeah, I'd like to

1307
01:00:15,159 --> 01:00:16,360
see a little more small, Bob.

1308
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:19,519
Speaker 1: I would like to see them like, let's give everybody

1309
01:00:19,519 --> 01:00:21,440
a rest night at one point, and then you're just

1310
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:25,960
giving us Peyton, Pritchard, Balor Shireman, Sam Hauser, Louke Cornette,

1311
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:27,760
and then I'm gonna throw Cada in over till Man

1312
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:30,320
because I'm fascinated by Cata. So let's just get or

1313
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,599
just a hockey style substitution for a couple of minutes.

1314
01:00:33,199 --> 01:00:34,599
I would just like to see what that looks like.

1315
01:00:34,679 --> 01:00:39,119
Sure you sound so intrigued by that one. The over

1316
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:41,840
under for them as we currently record this is fifty

1317
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,519
eight and a half. Would you take the over the

1318
01:00:44,599 --> 01:00:46,880
under on that? And I think we've both kind of

1319
01:00:47,039 --> 01:00:49,079
established that, like we'd still view them in their own

1320
01:00:49,119 --> 01:00:50,880
tier inside the Eastern Conference.

1321
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 2: Fifty eight and a half, he said, And it's been moving.

1322
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 1: When I first put together your outline before I send

1323
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,199
it to you, it was a fifty seven and a half.

1324
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:01,159
Then I checked again before I sends you, and it

1325
01:01:01,159 --> 01:01:02,440
moved up to fifty eight and a half.

1326
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, they won sixty four last year and that's just dominating.

1327
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:11,400
That's still pretty close to actually date. Fifty eight and

1328
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:15,719
a half. Though, Oh it's tough. I think anticipating more

1329
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:20,800
health around the league, more challenges within the conference, more

1330
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:23,639
rest all that. I think the safe bet would be under.

1331
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,039
But if you're feeling good about that over and you

1332
01:01:27,079 --> 01:01:29,760
think they can repeat that dominance and ride a high

1333
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:34,599
of a post championship OH nine style season, it's not

1334
01:01:34,679 --> 01:01:37,719
an unsurmountable number, but it's a high one. And usually

1335
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,400
with over unders, I think the sky high ones you

1336
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:43,320
go under and the dead low ones you go over.

1337
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:45,440
So I'm actually gonna go under that. Maybe it's fifty

1338
01:01:45,519 --> 01:01:48,159
eight even, but I'll play it safe there.

1339
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:51,199
Speaker 1: I we haven't done ours yet, but I don't know

1340
01:01:51,199 --> 01:01:52,679
what I'm going to do with this team because I

1341
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:56,199
underestimated them last year and I keep looking at that

1342
01:01:56,239 --> 01:01:58,800
record without Christops porzingis what were they thirty one and

1343
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:00,960
five or six or whatever ended up being last year,

1344
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,079
And I'm like, not that he doesn't matter, but it

1345
01:02:03,079 --> 01:02:05,199
feels like they might be built to hit the over anyway,

1346
01:02:05,239 --> 01:02:07,800
even if he's not gonna play until January or February

1347
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,239
or something. But I'm so curious what does he look

1348
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,400
like upon return and how much is he playing too?

1349
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:14,360
They held him under thirty minutes last year. Is that

1350
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:16,599
number gonna come even down when you're looking at the

1351
01:02:16,679 --> 01:02:20,239
ramp up from this so fifty I mean, like sixty

1352
01:02:20,239 --> 01:02:22,199
plus again is like it could just happen. You could

1353
01:02:22,199 --> 01:02:24,000
tell me they would win sixty three or whatever. I'd

1354
01:02:24,039 --> 01:02:25,639
be like, yeah, sure that happens.

1355
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:29,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's tough. Those are always difficult for me.

1356
01:02:29,719 --> 01:02:31,239
I actually did pretty well on them when I went

1357
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,480
through all the league them. There's last year, and I

1358
01:02:33,599 --> 01:02:35,880
like to do that going in every season, just to

1359
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,519
see like how it is expected to go versus how

1360
01:02:38,519 --> 01:02:42,360
it does go. But I think I usually, like I said,

1361
01:02:42,639 --> 01:02:44,760
lean on the safe side with the high high ones,

1362
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:46,599
and this team is going to be more focused on

1363
01:02:46,639 --> 01:02:48,880
the playoffs in the regular season. I have to think

1364
01:02:49,199 --> 01:02:50,039
after last.

1365
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:53,159
Speaker 1: Year, well, I'm glad someone did good on over unders.

1366
01:02:53,199 --> 01:02:55,039
We do a contest with our discord members, and I

1367
01:02:55,079 --> 01:02:56,960
think out of every I had like the third worst

1368
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,360
showing of like anyone that was in it. I was

1369
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:00,559
absolutely destroyed.

1370
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,679
Speaker 2: And there were some great ones last year, like Indy

1371
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:06,079
over I thought was a slam dunk and ended up

1372
01:03:06,079 --> 01:03:08,159
being that. I'm trying to think of some of the

1373
01:03:08,159 --> 01:03:08,880
other ones that I.

1374
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:12,079
Speaker 1: Really Memphis I'd picked. I think it was four three seasons.

1375
01:03:12,119 --> 01:03:14,239
I picked Memphis to go under and they cleared the

1376
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:15,840
over and so I was like, all right, I have

1377
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,920
to stop picking the Grizzlies under. So I hit the

1378
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:21,800
over that did not ended up working out too well

1379
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:22,039
for me.

1380
01:03:23,679 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 2: Let's see do I have them here? NBA over under.

1381
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:31,400
So the ones I loved were Boston over just from

1382
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:36,719
last year. Obviously, Cleveland over. I really like Cleveland last year.

1383
01:03:39,239 --> 01:03:46,000
Detroit under ended up being a pretty easy one. I

1384
01:03:46,039 --> 01:03:48,360
went under on San Antonio. I wasn't as high on

1385
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:50,039
them as some people going in the last year, and

1386
01:03:50,039 --> 01:03:52,360
they had a pretty rough year too. So yeah, there

1387
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:54,719
were someones that really stood out. Thunder forty four and

1388
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:56,280
a half last year, and they ended up being the

1389
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:57,800
one seed that was a great over too.

1390
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:01,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that was an easy over for

1391
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:04,079
me if I remember, if I wasn't mistaken. But yeah,

1392
01:04:04,239 --> 01:04:04,559
I think.

1393
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:06,239
Speaker 2: They're gonna be really good this year. By the way,

1394
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,440
talk about a team that's been underdiscussed. If I was

1395
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:12,239
gonna pick the finals right now, I picked under Celtics.

1396
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:14,480
Speaker 1: I think the Thunder gonna be my pick to come

1397
01:04:14,519 --> 01:04:16,519
out of the West. I haven't and I might pick

1398
01:04:16,519 --> 01:04:18,480
will probably be Thunder Celtics. I don't know who. I'm

1399
01:04:18,519 --> 01:04:20,840
so high in Oklahoma City. We have YouTube commenters are

1400
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:23,360
furious with me. They think I'm a Thunder fan at

1401
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:23,639
this point.

1402
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 2: I mean, they got Hartenstein and Alex Caruso. That's a

1403
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:30,440
crazy offseason without beyond all the stuff they had, without.

1404
01:04:30,159 --> 01:04:33,519
Speaker 1: Giving up any picks. Because the Bulls exist apparently.

1405
01:04:33,119 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 2: So they could have add even more if they wanted

1406
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,480
to or needed to. So yeah, and good coach. Coach

1407
01:04:37,519 --> 01:04:40,440
of the year team that beat the Celtics pretty handily

1408
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:42,880
on their home court. Last year, the Celtics beat them

1409
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:45,559
pretty well in their home court. So those are games

1410
01:04:45,599 --> 01:04:47,400
I'm circling on my calendar for sure.

1411
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:50,800
Speaker 1: Tame, if you have to pick the Western Conference team

1412
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:52,360
you think is the toughest matchup for them. You think

1413
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:56,079
it's Oklahoma City rather than like Minnesota, Dallas, Denver those.

1414
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:57,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, to go back to your other

1415
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:00,559
question about like what's going on, I will under the

1416
01:05:00,639 --> 01:05:02,559
radar and I'll give my co host John credit for this.

1417
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:06,519
When they play teams that are super young, super athletic,

1418
01:05:06,639 --> 01:05:09,239
fly up and down the court, those teams give them

1419
01:05:09,239 --> 01:05:11,000
a little bit of trouble to go back to their

1420
01:05:11,039 --> 01:05:14,519
age or even just the athleticism component. On Boston's roster.

1421
01:05:15,639 --> 01:05:19,599
They're not the most young, spry, athletic, quick team. Even

1422
01:05:19,639 --> 01:05:21,559
a guy like Holiday like he's going to go against

1423
01:05:21,559 --> 01:05:26,920
a super quick, shifty guard like Shay that sometimes challenges him.

1424
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:28,800
So that's another thing I'd say is a team like

1425
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:34,639
the Thunder a ton of athleticism, small space, great three

1426
01:05:34,679 --> 01:05:38,800
point shooting ability there too. Fortunately for the Celtics they

1427
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:40,719
don't have to deal with the West, and some weird

1428
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:42,920
stuff can happen. Again, Like who's to say if Dallas

1429
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:45,639
and Oklahoma go at it again, Dallas couldn't beat Oklahoma,

1430
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:48,719
But if it does come down to that, I think

1431
01:05:48,719 --> 01:05:50,920
that's the toughest matchup of any team in the NBA

1432
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:53,199
for them next year an Oklahoma City series.

1433
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:56,719
Speaker 1: Bobby, this was great. Thank you so much for coming

1434
01:05:56,719 --> 01:05:58,239
back on it for all your time. Are you able

1435
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:00,920
just to tell our listeners and YouTube viewers where they

1436
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:02,199
can find you and all the work that you.

1437
01:06:02,159 --> 01:06:06,559
Speaker 2: Do, Yeah, for sure. Stealingismedia dot com writing reporting regularly

1438
01:06:06,559 --> 01:06:09,239
over there the Garden Report were lives at least once

1439
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:12,079
a week and many times more once this season gets rolling,

1440
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:15,960
and bust the Sports journal every Saturday.

1441
01:06:17,119 --> 01:06:18,639
Speaker 1: Once again, thank you so much for your time, and

1442
01:06:18,679 --> 01:06:20,480
as you know by now, I'm sure I'll be pattering

1443
01:06:20,519 --> 01:06:21,840
you again. Yeah for be sure.

1444
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:23,559
Speaker 2: Good talking to you man,