Speaker 1: On April fifteenth, twenty twenty one, nineteen year old Brandon
Speaker 1: Scott Hole opened fire at a FedEx ground facility in Indianapolis,
Speaker 1: killing eight people and injuring several others before turning the
Speaker 1: gun on himself. The attack, which lasted less than four minutes,
Speaker 1: became the deadliest mass shooting in Indiana's history and raised
Speaker 1: urgent questions about missed warning signs, gun access, and mental
Speaker 1: health intervention. This is the story of the FedEx shooting.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
Speaker 2: and Grim, a true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: The following podcast in material intended.
Speaker 3: For mature audience listener discretion. He's advised, well, this is weird.
Speaker 1: What's weird?
Speaker 2: I have a FedEx delivery arriving today, do you Yeah.
Speaker 2: I rarely ever get anything via FedEx, but today I'm
Speaker 2: getting something, and today you're covering this case. That's like
Speaker 2: kind of odd, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit, a little bit of a coincidence,
Speaker 1: maybe even serendipitous. Who knows?
Speaker 2: Feels odd?
Speaker 1: Now, Well, hopefully you just get your package and the
Speaker 1: delivery person can get home safe at the end of
Speaker 1: the day.
Speaker 2: No kidding, Oh, man.
Speaker 1: This is actually kind of an interesting story. There's not
Speaker 1: I mean, I got a bit to talk about in it,
Speaker 1: but there's not a whole lot really to unravel in
Speaker 1: this story, which is unfortunate. But I mean, like, we
Speaker 1: don't have convictions and all that sort of thing after
Speaker 1: the fact because the perpetrator turns the gun on themselves,
Speaker 1: So a lot of the things that we have are
Speaker 1: from prior to the case and speculative things and discussions
Speaker 1: that occurred after the fact. That makes any sense.
Speaker 2: Okay, what year was this?
Speaker 1: I had occurred in twenty twenty one, so.
Speaker 2: For okay, yeah, because yeah, and like this is not
Speaker 2: very old. No, So did you say that in the intro?
Speaker 1: I did?
Speaker 3: Oops.
Speaker 2: Lots of times I'm just like, what did you say?
Speaker 3: Again?
Speaker 2: I don't know if other people have that problem, but
Speaker 2: if I'm listening to an audiobook or a podcast, like
Speaker 2: I rewind a lot because my mind just go somewhere
Speaker 2: else for a hot minute, and then I'm like, what
Speaker 2: the shit did they just say?
Speaker 1: We actually had this conversation on discord the other day.
Speaker 1: Oh really, Yeah, people talking about like, you know, having
Speaker 1: to repeat things and listen back, and I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, there's situations where even when we're recording, we
Speaker 1: have to stop and kind of go back because like
Speaker 1: the person who's listening to the story sometimes zones out,
Speaker 1: and honestly, while I'm going through scripts sometimes I zone
Speaker 1: out too, So even though I just read it, I'm like, wait,
Speaker 1: what did I read? Kind of like going back in
Speaker 1: a book, you know.
Speaker 2: Well, you see that meme to circulate every once in
Speaker 2: a while where it's you're at the age now where
Speaker 2: you need to like turn off the radio to focus
Speaker 2: on driving or something like that. Yeah, if it's like
Speaker 2: busy traffic or something, it's like this is too much.
Speaker 2: I can't. I can't like just turn the sound off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I need to turn down the radio so I
Speaker 1: can see where I'm going. Yes, But before we move
Speaker 1: on to the show and talk about this case, we
Speaker 1: do have some patrons to think, So shout out to John,
Speaker 1: Alex Greeve, Alex Wright, Melissa Bursara, and Stephanie DeShane. They
Speaker 1: all joined us over on Patreon get behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: and of course they get that exclusive episode at the
Speaker 1: end of the month.
Speaker 2: So good list of people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, shout out to you guys, and thank you very
Speaker 1: much for the support. We appreciate it, we sure do.
Speaker 1: But should we get into this case, let's do it, okay. Well,
Speaker 1: it started like any other night shift. It was Thursday,
Speaker 1: April fifteenth, twenty twenty one, and it was just past
Speaker 1: eleven pm at the FedEx ground facility near the Indianapolis Airport.
Speaker 1: The warehouse was buzzing with activity. Some workers were wrapping
Speaker 1: up their shift, others were just clocking in. More than
Speaker 1: one hundred people were inside, you know, sorting packages, moving
Speaker 1: between loading docks, you know, vending machines and brake areas
Speaker 1: even and that's when the first shot rang out. A
Speaker 1: man in a hoodie stepped out of his car in
Speaker 1: the parking lot. Without warning. He raised a rifle and
Speaker 1: started shooting indiscriminately. Bullets sprayed across the lot, random, rapid
Speaker 1: and terrifying. People dove behind cars and ran for buildings,
Speaker 1: or maybe even some who frozen place, not knowing what
Speaker 1: to do. But by the time some workers realized what
Speaker 1: was happening, he was already inside, trying to access the
Speaker 1: actual workspace. He moved to the lobby and fired round
Speaker 1: into the open space. Employees screamed and scattered, some tried
Speaker 1: hid behind sorting equipment. Others ran back outside, straight into
Speaker 1: more chaos. The shooter wasn't stopping. He returned to the
Speaker 1: parking lot and kept firing at anyone in his path.
Speaker 1: Calls began pouring into nine one one, things like, quote,
Speaker 1: we have shots fired, shots fired, they're still shooting as
Speaker 1: we speak. Quote he's shooting at everybody. I don't know
Speaker 1: how many he's hit. Quote we can't even get through
Speaker 1: the turnstills, he's aiming a gun through them. But by
Speaker 1: the time police pulled up to the building, eight people
Speaker 1: were already murdered, four in the parking lot, four inside.
Speaker 1: Several others were wounded, some barely made it out. One
Speaker 1: employee later said that she hid under a trailer in
Speaker 1: the loading area and stayed on the phone with a
Speaker 1: dispatcher from nine to one one for more than thirty minutes.
Speaker 1: I'm sure if the shooter was still nearby or not,
Speaker 1: or where he was, what was happening. And the worst part,
Speaker 1: no one at the time had any idea why this
Speaker 1: was happening or even who this guy was. Now, this shooter,
Speaker 1: he didn't come out of nowhere. Surveillance footage and witnesses
Speaker 1: accounted later filling in that timeline. He pulled up to
Speaker 1: the parking lot at about ten fifty four pm, and
Speaker 1: there he sat in his car for a couple minutes.
Speaker 1: At first, no one really noticed, just another vehicle in
Speaker 1: a sea of night shift workers or delivery trucks, you know,
Speaker 1: coming and going as constant as the minutes passed by
Speaker 1: in a clock. Then he stepped out, wearing a black hoodie,
Speaker 1: a black mask, and armed with two legally purchased which
Speaker 1: they would later find out ar style rifles. There were
Speaker 1: no words that were spoken, there was no hesitation. He
Speaker 1: just began open.
Speaker 2: Firing, just like complete chaos.
Speaker 1: Complete chaos, indiscriminately just kept firing.
Speaker 2: Honestly, it would take me so long to even like.
Speaker 1: Understand to process it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because lots of times you even hear loud noises
Speaker 2: and it could be a gunshot, but then your mind
Speaker 2: doesn't go there, right, You're like you make an excuse
Speaker 2: that it's something else or something right, like, you just
Speaker 2: wouldn't expect that, so before you process what the hell
Speaker 2: is even happening, it like very well could be too late.
Speaker 1: For you for sure, And that's it's human nature to
Speaker 1: like make up those excuses to assume that it, oh,
Speaker 1: it's not dangerous, like we're okay, you know. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: something that's built into us to think that, no, we're fine.
Speaker 2: The last time I heard like a huge bang, I
Speaker 2: was like in the bath, and I was like, I
Speaker 2: noted it. And then I just like carried on with
Speaker 2: my day and oh that was nothing. And then you
Speaker 2: like get out of the bath and there was like fire,
Speaker 2: trugs and ambulances all on the road, and here there
Speaker 2: was like a big accident, and I was just like,
Speaker 2: what it up?
Speaker 1: You know, your brain makes that excuse right now. One
Speaker 1: FedEx employee, still in their car, barely ducked down time.
Speaker 1: Another ran for cover behind a concrete pillar. People outside
Speaker 1: sprinted towards the building, yelling warnings for anyone else to
Speaker 1: take cover and hide. Others didn't know where to go inside. Outside,
Speaker 1: they both felt like a trap. So the shooter, after
Speaker 1: coming out of their vehicle, made their way into the
Speaker 1: entryway inside and kept firing. Now, according to witnesses, he
Speaker 1: was shouting something, but no one could really make out
Speaker 1: the words, whether it was through the gunshots, the chaosk
Speaker 1: or the mask he was wearing. The words were just muffled.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a targeted attack on any individuals. There was
Speaker 1: no specific person who was working there that was being
Speaker 1: sought out. He was just firing into the open whoever
Speaker 1: he saw. A few people tried to duck behind machines.
Speaker 1: According to multiple reports, one employee actually had a weapon
Speaker 1: on them as well, So they had a legally owned
Speaker 1: firearm which probably wasn't allowed to be on shift.
Speaker 2: In the workplace.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I digress. They did take this weapon
Speaker 1: and turned back and returned fire. Now presumably being like
Speaker 1: a pistol or something like that that they would have had.
Speaker 1: I don't think the capacity of rounds in there would
Speaker 1: have been very much. And this guy's got high capacity
Speaker 1: AR rifles, so you can return a couple shots. But
Speaker 1: that's about the gist of it. And that return fire,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned, missed and it didn't even slow the
Speaker 1: gunman down. He just simply kept walking and kept shooting.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm actually not really familiar with those weapons. Is
Speaker 2: that one where you're kind of hold the trigger and
Speaker 2: like numerous rounds are kind of coming out or whatever.
Speaker 1: So fully automatic, so there's there's single shot, there's semi automatic,
Speaker 1: and fully automatic. I'm unaware. I'm pretty sure he had
Speaker 1: fully automatic AR style AR fifteen rifles, but it was
Speaker 1: at the very least semi automatic. So every time you
Speaker 1: pull the trigger, a shot is fired, and you can
Speaker 1: just keep pulling the trigger. No single shot. You generally
Speaker 1: have to, like you know, reload and fully automatic, you
Speaker 1: hold the trigger down and just keep shooting. But the
Speaker 1: difference is he had high capacity magazines, which basically means
Speaker 1: it's a clip that holds all your bullets, and you
Speaker 1: have a high capacity, which means it holds a shit
Speaker 1: ton of bullets.
Speaker 2: It basically means like you do not stand a.
Speaker 1: Chance really pretty much. So I don't know how many
Speaker 1: bullets a high capacity magazine of this firearm would hold.
Speaker 1: Let's just say, for the sake of argument, it holds
Speaker 1: thirty bullets. Okay, so thirty bullets versus your handgun, which
Speaker 1: holds somewhere in the vicinity of maybe five six. Yeah,
Speaker 1: something like that. You don't stand a chance unless you
Speaker 1: have a single perfect shot and you can take them out,
Speaker 1: which unfortunately this person missed. And that's all she really wrote.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he just kept firing, kept walking, didn't seem
Speaker 1: to care.
Speaker 2: That's terrifying.
Speaker 1: He then made his way towards the facility's main entrance turnedstells,
Speaker 1: which are like those full height and metal revolving gates
Speaker 1: of like open when you scan your proper id sort
Speaker 1: of thing. Okay, this case, obviously it's a FedEx batch
Speaker 1: because it's a FedEx facility. Now, this guy couldn't get
Speaker 1: through those gates, but he didn't stop. He aimed between
Speaker 1: the bars and kept shooting at anyone he saw on
Speaker 1: the other side. Once he couldn't make his way into
Speaker 1: the actual facility, he walked back out through the lobby
Speaker 1: and back out into the parking lot and began firing
Speaker 1: again at anyone else he saw who was leaving the
Speaker 1: facility trying to get to their vehicles or escape. And
Speaker 1: of course more chaos ensued and there were more bodies.
Speaker 2: Good lord, this is just like he's like a madman,
Speaker 2: eh basically huh.
Speaker 1: Now, just a few minutes after it started, it was
Speaker 1: all over. The shooter then turned the gun on himself
Speaker 1: and ended his own life. From the first bullet to
Speaker 1: the last, it happened in under four minutes. That's how
Speaker 1: fast this went down.
Speaker 2: It seemed like it lasted way longer. Than that. And
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm assuming like for the victims and people
Speaker 2: in the situation, it would have felt longer, right or
Speaker 2: would it have felt shorter? Probably longer like forever.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it would have felt like forever. And now
Speaker 1: here's the thing I mentioned already that there was one
Speaker 1: person who was hiding and on the phone with nine
Speaker 1: oh one for like half an hour, right, So this
Speaker 1: happened for four minutes, but that terror kept going like
Speaker 1: they didn't know where he was, what was happening. They
Speaker 1: just were terrified and hiding and begging to survive basically yep. Now,
Speaker 1: when police arrived, they didn't find that standoff. They found
Speaker 1: a massacre and a dead nineteen year old laying near
Speaker 1: the lobby with two rifles by his side, both decked
Speaker 1: out with my little pony stickers. His name was Brandon
Speaker 1: Scott Whole, and he was the one who went through
Speaker 1: and shot eight people and killing them shot more, but
Speaker 1: killed eight people.
Speaker 2: Okay, excuse me, so I don't need to wind where
Speaker 2: the hell were the my little pony.
Speaker 1: Stickers on the rifles?
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? Okay? That seems so I was
Speaker 2: like on his bumper, like what Okay, no, he gone
Speaker 2: on the firearms.
Speaker 1: They were decked out with my little pony.
Speaker 2: Stickers, something so innocent, decked out on something so like evil. Yes,
Speaker 2: just that is very unexpected.
Speaker 1: Okay, Now, my little pony plays a little bit of
Speaker 1: a part in this story. We'll talk about it here
Speaker 1: in a little bit, but to the extent it plays
Speaker 1: is definitely up for debate. But I digress. So it
Speaker 1: seems like this wasn't a random act of violence, though,
Speaker 1: because Brandon had a history and this honestly probably could
Speaker 1: have been all prevented. The day the system could have
Speaker 1: stopped Brandon was March third, twenty twenty, almost exactly a
Speaker 1: year before the shooting occurred. That morning, Sheila Hole, his mother,
Speaker 1: walked into the Indianapolis Police Department, not as a victim,
Speaker 1: but as a mother trying to stop her son from
Speaker 1: becoming something of a monster, or even a victim himself.
Speaker 1: Her son, Brandon had just turned eighteen. The day before,
Speaker 1: he bought a shotgun legal but no AMMO, just the gun,
Speaker 1: and Sheila confronted him about this and things got pretty tense.
Speaker 1: Brandon snapped, He hit her in the arm, told her
Speaker 1: to shut up and then drop the words. No parent
Speaker 1: ever wants to hear quote, this is not the life
Speaker 1: I want to live. I'll end it my way. So
Speaker 1: imagine having your son say that after purchasing a shotgun.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I had to just process that for a minute
Speaker 2: and I was like what yeah, dang.
Speaker 1: See. He continued on by saying that he was going
Speaker 1: to point the gun at police so they'd shoot him.
Speaker 1: Whoa aka suicide by police?
Speaker 2: Oh? Man, was he struggling?
Speaker 1: I'm assuming definitely, and we'll get into it.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So when that conversation hap happened, she had had enough.
Speaker 1: Sheila and her daughter made a plan and went straight
Speaker 1: to the police. Officers responded quickly. They went to the
Speaker 1: house handcuffed Brandon without incident, but he was He was
Speaker 1: anxious and panicking, saying, please just turn off the power
Speaker 1: strip to my computer. I don't want anyone to see
Speaker 1: what's on it.
Speaker 2: Oh and he's saying this to police, yes, oh okay.
Speaker 1: This of course raised some eyebrows.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 1: And when officers went upstairs to retrieve the shotgun, they
Speaker 1: also took a look at the monitor. What they saw
Speaker 1: was exactly what you'd think. There was some heavy content,
Speaker 1: in particular some white supremacist websites, extreme material and search
Speaker 1: histories that matched the profile of someone deeply disturbed. Still,
Speaker 1: Brandon insisted he wasn't suicidal. He told officers that he
Speaker 1: was depressed, felt sad, and would probably benefit from some counseling.
Speaker 1: This was all enough for them to place him under
Speaker 1: an immediate detention mental health hold. They took him to
Speaker 1: a local hospital and confiscated the shotgun. On the paperwork,
Speaker 1: they even wrote quote seized from dangerous person, so he's
Speaker 1: labeled as a dangerous person that they seized this shotgun. Front.
Speaker 1: This sounds like the system is doing their job, and
Speaker 1: the system is working. You know, the policies, the procedures
Speaker 1: that are in place, they're being followed, and you know,
Speaker 1: things can be prevented here. But that hold on him,
Speaker 1: that mental health hold, it lasted less than two hours. Okay,
Speaker 1: there was no full psychological evaluation that was ever done,
Speaker 1: no criminal charges, no court date, no official red flag case.
Speaker 1: The computer was just left at home and not investigated
Speaker 1: fully at all either. They just kind of took a
Speaker 1: quick look and like, oh shit, there's some crazy shit here. Whatever,
Speaker 1: let's go take the shotgun and bring him in. And
Speaker 1: then he was released two hours later.
Speaker 2: Oh now that okay, I was expecting something a little different,
Speaker 2: But I mean, I don't know why considering what you've
Speaker 2: already divulged here.
Speaker 1: Now, that shotgun it was never returned, but the rest
Speaker 1: of the system never really followed through the next day.
Speaker 1: It was just business as usual. And the problem was
Speaker 1: that Brandon, he didn't just snap. There were a lot
Speaker 1: of warning signs that just it went totally unchecked. See,
Speaker 1: by the time he walked into that FedEx facility with
Speaker 1: those two rifles, he had been on a long, slow
Speaker 1: decline and people had been worried about him for years.
Speaker 1: His trouble started in elementary school. He was already on
Speaker 1: the radar, and by fourth grade he was diagnosed with
Speaker 1: disruptive behavior disorder and anxiety, and possibly, though he wasn't
Speaker 1: officially diagnosed, it was potential that he had OCD as well.
Speaker 1: He certainly showed the signs. He had outbursts, trouble focusing,
Speaker 1: difficulty connecting with other kids, and when you have your OCD.
Speaker 1: He had routines and if they were interrupted, those teens
Speaker 1: had to start right over from the very beginning.
Speaker 2: Oh okay.
Speaker 1: His mother said that as he got older, things only
Speaker 1: got worse. In twenty thirteen, at the age of eleven,
Speaker 1: he attacked his mum. It wasn't just a tantrum. He
Speaker 1: physically assaulted her and left her with minor injuries that
Speaker 1: landed him on probation and into mandatory counseling. Still, the
Speaker 1: pattern didn't stop. In twenty fifteen, he was diagnosed with
Speaker 1: autism spectrum disorder. Over time, his behavior became so severe
Speaker 1: that he couldn't attend school anymore. Police were called to
Speaker 1: the house multiple times. At some point it became clear
Speaker 1: Brandon wasn't going to be graduating his family. They did
Speaker 1: what they could. He saw therapists, he was enrolled in
Speaker 1: behavior programs, but none of it stuck. His mental health
Speaker 1: challenges were compounded by isolation, confusion about his identity, and
Speaker 1: what seemed like a growing obsession with violence. Later investigators
Speaker 1: would describe Brandon as someone who wanted to prove he
Speaker 1: was capable, strong, in control, dangerous. He told people he
Speaker 1: was interested in the military, and he started eating MREs,
Speaker 1: which are like those ready to eat meals, those rations
Speaker 1: for soldiers and combat zones.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, In the summer of twenty twenty, Brandon made an
Speaker 1: effort to step out on his own. At eighteen, he
Speaker 1: moved out of his family home into a place by himself,
Speaker 1: something investigators would later say was part of his attempt
Speaker 1: to assert independence, prove his capability. You know, kind of
Speaker 1: like become a man almost, I guess, and I don't
Speaker 1: say that it's kind of being a man is actually
Speaker 1: part of what's going on here.
Speaker 2: He probably wasn't ready to be moving out on his own,
Speaker 2: by the sounds of it.
Speaker 1: He may have been, but he wanted that masculinity and
Speaker 1: that independence. That's what he was searching for now. Not
Speaker 1: long after, he got a job at the FedEx ground facility.
Speaker 2: I was like waiting for this. I'm like he had
Speaker 2: to have been working there or worked there.
Speaker 1: It was the very same one on the south side
Speaker 1: of or sorry, southwest side of Indianapolis, and he worked
Speaker 1: there as a package handler on the overnight shift. It
Speaker 1: was a physically demanding job, but it gave him structure, paycheck,
Speaker 1: and at least outwardly a fresh start, and for a
Speaker 1: while it looked like he was trying to put his
Speaker 1: life together after years of instability, mental health struggles. At least, right,
Speaker 1: you know, he has something here. He has an independence.
Speaker 1: You know, he's got that feeling of being a man
Speaker 1: for what he's trying to search for, and it's giving
Speaker 1: him everything he's really looking for. But things didn't stick.
Speaker 1: Within two months, he stopped showing up for his shifts
Speaker 1: and he was fired in October of twenty twenty for absenteeisms.
Speaker 1: He moved back in with his family shortly after, and
Speaker 1: according to the FBI, this failed attempt at that independence,
Speaker 1: losing his job, having to return home, it deeply affected him.
Speaker 1: It left him feeling defeated, emasculated, and unable to meet
Speaker 1: expectations that he set out for himself. And that's the
Speaker 1: big thing here, is what he's setting out for himself.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that going out and living on your
Speaker 1: own and doing a job is something that makes someone
Speaker 1: a man, you know, is a masculine thing. Those are
Speaker 1: the parameters that he's setting for himself. Those are the
Speaker 1: barriers that he's trying to overcome, saying, you know, if
Speaker 1: I do these things, I'll feel better, I'll feel independent,
Speaker 1: I'll feel like a man. That's the sort of thing
Speaker 1: that's going on.
Speaker 2: So he has quite like high expectations kind of for himself.
Speaker 2: I think at a pretty young age.
Speaker 1: Really definitely, and maybe it's not necessarily expectations, but it's
Speaker 1: hopes thinking, you know what, I can do this, and
Speaker 1: if I can do this, I can do the next.
Speaker 1: And if one of those steps along the way fails
Speaker 1: or he falters, then he beats himself up over it.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Now, over time that feeling it turned inward, and then
Speaker 1: it became darker. Investigators would later conclude that his experience
Speaker 1: during this period helped shape the motivation behind the attack
Speaker 1: that he was well already quietly planning. And of course
Speaker 1: there was the online world. Dark corners of the Internet
Speaker 1: had fed into his mindset. There was Nazi propaganda, white
Speaker 1: supremacist forums, hours of browsing through German military content from
Speaker 1: World War II. Now, out of the more than one
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy five thousand files on his computer, fewer
Speaker 1: than two hundred were directly tied to that kind of content,
Speaker 1: but it was there. It was a fraction of what
Speaker 1: he was searching for and what he was watching and
Speaker 1: what he was saving, but it was part of it.
Speaker 1: It was enough to get noticed, but not enough to
Speaker 1: get him stopped. By the time his mother went to
Speaker 1: police in March of twenty twenty. The signs had been
Speaker 1: flashing red for years, but after his brief hospital visit
Speaker 1: of like two hours, he walked right back into civilian
Speaker 1: life and right through the cracks of the system that
Speaker 1: wasn't built to hold him. Now here's the part that
Speaker 1: still makes many people furious. After Brandon's shotgun was taken
Speaker 1: away by police in March of twenty twenty, and after
Speaker 1: he was briefly hospitalized, there was a chance to stop
Speaker 1: him from ever legally owning a gun. Indiana has what's
Speaker 1: known as a red flag law, one of the earliest
Speaker 1: in the country. It's supposed to give law enforcement a
Speaker 1: way to step in when someone shows signs that they're
Speaker 1: dangerous to themselves or others. The process is not too complicated.
Speaker 1: In fact, if police sees a weapon, prosecutors have fourteen
Speaker 1: days to go in front of a judge and make
Speaker 1: the case that this person shouldn't be allowed to buy
Speaker 1: more guns or firearms. That never happened.
Speaker 2: Why the hell not, hey they had, because at one
Speaker 2: point you said they had kind of deemed him a
Speaker 2: dangerous person. Yes, so why they just didn't do this
Speaker 2: one step further?
Speaker 1: I guess they didn't.
Speaker 2: Oh that is that's pretty shitty.
Speaker 1: It is. There's a caveat to it, though, which we'll
Speaker 1: talk about in a little while.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: That shotgun that Brandon had purchased, it was never returned
Speaker 1: to him, and neither Brandon nor his family asked for
Speaker 1: it back. In fact, there is an interview like with
Speaker 1: a psychologist I believe, or like a social type worker
Speaker 1: who's on this case, and they're talking to Brandon and
Speaker 1: they asked Brandon, what should we do with the gun
Speaker 1: if you don't want to back and he's like, I
Speaker 1: don't destroy it whatever, it doesn't matter, Okay.
Speaker 2: I do have to just say one thing though, regardless
Speaker 2: of if they had done this, he still could have
Speaker 2: probably got a weapon if he wanted one. It just
Speaker 2: would have been a lot harder.
Speaker 1: It's hard to say potentially, I mean, where there's a will,
Speaker 1: there's a way. But at least it makes it much
Speaker 1: harder to do this, you know, it makes someone think twice.
Speaker 1: There's more steps to go through it, right for sure,
Speaker 1: And at the very least it's not on legal conscience.
Speaker 1: You know, the person who legally sold him the gun.
Speaker 1: That sort of thing. Right now, maybe prosecutors thought this
Speaker 1: was enough, but without a formal hearing, no red flag
Speaker 1: ruling was ever filed. That meant Brandon's name was never
Speaker 1: added to any list. There was no restriction or barrier
Speaker 1: attached to his name. He was still free to walk
Speaker 1: into a gun shop and buy whatever he wanted even
Speaker 1: after that incident. And that's exactly what he did. In
Speaker 1: July and September of twenty twenty, Brandon legally purchased to
Speaker 1: ar fifteen style rifles from a licensed dealer. These were
Speaker 1: the same guns that he'd bring back to the FedEx
Speaker 1: facility seven months later. Now, these weren't black market guns.
Speaker 1: They weren't bought in secret. He passed background checks. The
Speaker 1: system cleared him all because the case never made it
Speaker 1: to a courtroom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, it definitely should not have been that easy
Speaker 2: for him to just walk in there and get these
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 1: However, here's the kicker. If prosecutors had followed through and
Speaker 1: gotten that red flag order, it would have only lasted
Speaker 1: one year.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, it's not a forever kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Yep. After that, they'd go back and proved that he
Speaker 1: They would have to go back to court and prove
Speaker 1: that he's still a danger. Okay, so by March twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one, just weeks before the shooting, the restriction likely
Speaker 1: would have expired anyways, so he potentially still could have
Speaker 1: gone out and legally purchased firearms. Okay, it's hard to
Speaker 1: say what difference it really would have made, but the
Speaker 1: opportunity was there and it slipped away. But after his
Speaker 1: brief stint in the hospital and the gun seizure, Brandon
Speaker 1: he kept a low profile. He didn't have a job, now,
Speaker 1: you know, after he got let go from FedEx. He
Speaker 1: wasn't in school. He mostly stayed at home. But while
Speaker 1: the outside world saw a quiet kid trying to get
Speaker 1: his life back together, something else was happening behind those
Speaker 1: closed doors. According to investigators, Brandon spent at least nine
Speaker 1: months planning this attack. He wasn't motivated by revenge on FedEx, though,
Speaker 1: I want to make that clear. He wasn't out to
Speaker 1: settle a score with FedEx in you know, wrongful dismissal,
Speaker 1: or angry about him being fired or anything. In fact,
Speaker 1: the fb I said this wasn't about an ideology, a race,
Speaker 1: or work grievance. They simply said that he chose FedEx
Speaker 1: because he knew it.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's what I was thinking.
Speaker 1: He knew it, yeah, h he had Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2: I was just going to say, planning something for nine months. Hey, yeah,
Speaker 2: that right there just is It's almost kind of it
Speaker 2: gives you like an uneasy, creepy kind of feeling.
Speaker 1: It really does.
Speaker 2: These people for nine months you're living there like day
Speaker 2: to day life, going to work and stuff, and they
Speaker 2: literally no idea what the hell someone is doing?
Speaker 1: Yep, what's coming?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So he worked there in twenty twenty. He was familiar
Speaker 1: with the layout, the security, the shift change patterns. He
Speaker 1: knew the parking lot would be full. He knew when
Speaker 1: you know people will be most vulnerable, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: And he didn't talk to anyone about what he was planning.
Speaker 1: He didn't leave behind a manifesto. There was no clear message.
Speaker 1: The closest thing he posted came just an hour before
Speaker 1: the shooting, which was on Facebook, and he wrote this quote,
Speaker 1: I hope that I can be with apple Jack in
Speaker 1: the afterlife. My life has no meaning without her. If
Speaker 1: there's no after life and she isn't real, then my
Speaker 1: life never really mattered anyway. Now. Apple Jack, for context,
Speaker 1: is a cartoon Pony, a character from My Little Pony
Speaker 1: Friendship is Magic Show. Okay, so you see, Brandon is
Speaker 1: what many people would call a bronie, part of a
Speaker 1: niche internet subculture of mostly adult male fans of the
Speaker 1: children's show.
Speaker 2: Oh I've never heard of this bronie.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, I'm pretty sure we talked about it before
Speaker 1: actually on the show.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, Okay, well I've clearly forgotten.
Speaker 1: Clearly now, Brandon's obsession with My Little Pony may have
Speaker 1: played a very heavy role in this story, potentially with
Speaker 1: his disconnection from reality and the depths that he dove
Speaker 1: into this show's world. But unfortunately it's not something we
Speaker 1: really know much about. What we do know is that
Speaker 1: this post was weird, sad, and rather confusing. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's talking about saying that if this cartoon character doesn't
Speaker 1: exist in the afterlife, his life never meant anything, and
Speaker 1: he's hoping to spend his afterlife with this cartoon character.
Speaker 1: There's a lot wrong psychologically with that.
Speaker 2: Okay, this the show is meant for kids or whatever, right,
Speaker 2: it's a kid's show. But for some reason, there's just
Speaker 2: like a draw to some there's something.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of.
Speaker 2: I could google this on the side.
Speaker 1: No, it's all good. It's all good. A lot of
Speaker 1: this bronie culture, let's put it that way. Not all,
Speaker 1: but there's a lot within this culture that have sexualized
Speaker 1: the show.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, okay, gross.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not saying Brandon did. I mean, he definitely
Speaker 1: had some heartfelt attachment to the character apple Jack, for sure,
Speaker 1: but there is some connotations with the word bronie and
Speaker 1: sexualization of my little pony.
Speaker 2: Oh fuck, Okay, I wish I.
Speaker 1: Didn't ask Oka sorry, which, honestly, it does make it
Speaker 1: we understand it a little bit more knowing that. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's in his mind, he's doing this to try and
Speaker 1: get himself killed so he can he can spend time
Speaker 1: with the one he loves, probably the only one he loves. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it is exactly what I just said. Weird, sad
Speaker 1: and confusing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I don't know what the hell to
Speaker 2: say to this, So I'm yup.
Speaker 1: Now. Eight lives ended that night when Brandon opened fire
Speaker 1: at the FedEx facility. Eight families were left with a
Speaker 1: hole that they will never be able to fill. For
Speaker 1: some of the victims, they had just started their jobs.
Speaker 1: Others had been there for years. They were parents, teenagers, veterans, friends.
Speaker 1: For many of them, FedEx wasn't just a job. It
Speaker 1: was a stepping stone, a means to support their family,
Speaker 1: or routine that kept them going. Matthew Alexander was thirty
Speaker 1: two years old. He was a sports lover and a
Speaker 1: loyal friend. Matt had been with FedEx for nearly a decade.
Speaker 1: He loved road tripping to baseball games, collecting babble heads,
Speaker 1: and handing out baseball cards to his buddies, always picking
Speaker 1: out their favorite players.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: He just bought a house in the suburbs and was
Speaker 1: finally feeling settled when he was killed.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, this is okay. We're going through all the victims,
Speaker 2: aren't we. This is going to destroy us.
Speaker 1: Samaria Blackwell was nineteen years old, the youngest of four siblings.
Speaker 1: Samaria was athletic, full of drive, and deeply kind. She
Speaker 1: played soccer, worked as a lifeguard, and wanted to become
Speaker 1: a police officer one day. Her parents described her as
Speaker 1: someone who naturally connected with older people, quietly, respectful, and
Speaker 1: full of heart. Carly Smith was also nineteen. She was bubbly,
Speaker 1: outgoing and known for making people laugh. Carly had only
Speaker 1: recently started working at FedEx. She was saving up for
Speaker 1: her first car, studying for her driver's license, and planning
Speaker 1: to start community college. She played softball in high school
Speaker 1: and shared a close bond with her mom and siblings.
Speaker 1: They had dinner together every night. John Weissert was seventy
Speaker 1: four years old. He was a retired Air Force veteran
Speaker 1: and mechanical engineer. John had taken a part time job
Speaker 1: at FedEx just to make ends meet. His wife had
Speaker 1: been urging him to retire. He was hunched and slowing down,
Speaker 1: but he kept showing up. He was soft spoken, played guitar,
Speaker 1: loved old movies, and carried a quiet sense of duty
Speaker 1: until the end. Amarjite Kuar Jahal was sixty six. She
Speaker 1: had clocked out early that night just so she could
Speaker 1: make it home to celebrate her granddaughter's birthday. Amarjite was
Speaker 1: a grandmother, a cook, a caretaker, and a beloved presence
Speaker 1: in her Sikh community. She made legendary bean dip and
Speaker 1: attended temple every weekend. Her family begged her to stop working,
Speaker 1: but she insisted on on contributing. Jiswinder Singh was sixty eight.
Speaker 1: He just started at FedEx and was excited to collect
Speaker 1: his first paycheck. Known for his gentle nature and devotion
Speaker 1: to temple service, Joswinder lived nearby and volunteered daily in
Speaker 1: the Sikh community kitchen. His life was rooted in prayer, humility,
Speaker 1: and helping others. Amarjit Sekhon was forty eight, a single
Speaker 1: mom of two teenage sons. Amarjit had moved from Ohio
Speaker 1: to be closer to family and had taken the night
Speaker 1: shift at FedEx to support her kids. Her niece described
Speaker 1: her as a sweet soul who was the glue of
Speaker 1: their family and she never missed a weekend at temple visits.
Speaker 1: Just Vender Kuar fifty. Just Vender was always thinking of others,
Speaker 1: especially her sons. Back in India, She was preparing to
Speaker 1: help celebrate her granddaughter's birthday when she was killed. Her
Speaker 1: family remembers her yogurt recipes and her quiet strength. She'd
Speaker 1: been planning to get her drivers license so she could
Speaker 1: be more independent. The shooting took less than four minutes.
Speaker 1: These were people, not statistics, and they deserved much more
Speaker 1: than what they got in the end. In the hours
Speaker 1: that followed the incident, the parking lot of the FedEx
Speaker 1: facility turned into a scene we've come to know all
Speaker 1: too well. Flashing lights, news cameras, Families huddled together waiting
Speaker 1: for word. Some were reunited, while others got the call
Speaker 1: that no one should ever have to take.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh.
Speaker 1: FedEx created a relief fund and pledged one million dollars
Speaker 1: to support the victims and families, but questions hung heavy
Speaker 1: in the air about security, about policies, about how they
Speaker 1: even got there in the first place. The company came
Speaker 1: under fire for its no phone policy. See in many areas,
Speaker 1: they were not allowed to have their cell phones and
Speaker 1: their persons while they were working on the floor. It
Speaker 1: presents both a distractional safety hazard and a production issue.
Speaker 1: This policy, though, left many employees without a way to
Speaker 1: call for help when the shooting had started. Families couldn't
Speaker 1: reach their loved ones inside the warehouse, People hit under equipment,
Speaker 1: and they were completely cut off. That policy is still
Speaker 1: being debated. I actually kind of understand this policy. I've
Speaker 1: worked in places where there was no phone policies on
Speaker 1: the floor, and I totally get it. Yeah, you're not
Speaker 1: expecting a shooter in the workplace, right. Perhaps there could be,
Speaker 1: you know, situations where emergency personnel do need to be called.
Speaker 1: But that's why supervisors are allowed to call or to
Speaker 1: carry their phones for emergency personnel. So I totally understand it,
Speaker 1: but I also do understand why it's debated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess it kind of it isolates
Speaker 2: you slightly, right it does.
Speaker 1: But the problem is, like you're there for work, right
Speaker 1: in an emergency situation, having everyone on a phone could
Speaker 1: clog up emergency phone lines, right, it can make things
Speaker 1: worse in all honesty.
Speaker 2: Well, and in some workplaces like it can cause danger
Speaker 2: too if people distracted on their phone, right, So it
Speaker 2: is like a safety thing too.
Speaker 1: It is a massive safety thing now in this connotation,
Speaker 1: if someone is on the phone with the loved one
Speaker 1: in these you know, potentially last minutes of their life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course we want them to have it, but that's
Speaker 1: not what workplaces are where this is happening. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I totally understand, but I do also understand the debate.
Speaker 1: But I do have to say I firmly agree with
Speaker 1: the no cell phones on the floor. I really do.
Speaker 1: You should have certain personnel with phones with accessibility to call,
Speaker 1: being supervisors, managers, that sort of thing. But I Digress investigators.
Speaker 1: They combed through Brandon's computer, they comb through his phone,
Speaker 1: his search history, and yes, because I mentioned there was
Speaker 1: Nazi and World War II content less than two hundred
Speaker 1: files of the one hundred and seventy five thousand reviewed.
Speaker 1: But there was no evidence of bias or hate driven
Speaker 1: ideology in what he'd done. It wasn't enough to suggest
Speaker 1: a motive. But looking back, it's not like there weren't
Speaker 1: obvious signs of things to come. There was this individual
Speaker 1: who was on the radar for over a year before
Speaker 1: FedEx shooting occurred. His mother warned police in March of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. He was talking about suicide by cop. Remember that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he just.
Speaker 1: Bought a shotgun. He hit her when she questioned him,
Speaker 1: and when police arrived, he begged them to turn off
Speaker 1: his computer and not look what was on there.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that yeah, right there.
Speaker 1: But the thing is they still saw some things on
Speaker 1: his computer, white supremacist websites, Nazi content, There was violent talk.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of My Little Pony too, which
Speaker 1: I mean doesn't necessarily fit in, but it was there.
Speaker 1: So you have questionable content in a computer. You have
Speaker 1: a violent individual who's confessing to suicide by comp and
Speaker 1: just purchased a shotgun. You think this meets all the
Speaker 1: criteria for an individual who's going to go on and
Speaker 1: do something like a mass shooting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I guess the signs were there, but
Speaker 2: also was there enough?
Speaker 1: You know, I think there was definitely enough. But we'll
Speaker 1: get into a little bit here because that whole like
Speaker 1: red flag law, Yeah, it may not be as perfect
Speaker 1: as people think. Okay, So the police took him under
Speaker 1: Indiana's immediate detention law and the shotgun was confiscated. He
Speaker 1: was held for a psychiatric evaluation and then released, although
Speaker 1: that psychiatric evaluation was not a very full one.
Speaker 2: Okay. I'm like, yeah, how to what extent did they
Speaker 2: do that? Because you think they would have found something there?
Speaker 1: Well, as I mentioned, it was only two hours he was.
Speaker 2: Held, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, the FBI followed up in April of twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: questioning him, but they closed the case. No criminal charges,
Speaker 1: no diagnosis, required commitment or anything. And critically that red
Speaker 1: flag petition filed. There was nothing, nothing was filed with
Speaker 1: that red flag law. That was the moment Indian as
Speaker 1: red flag law gave authorities fourteen days to ask the
Speaker 1: judge to bar him from buying more guns, and they didn't. Now,
Speaker 1: according to prosecutors, they believed taking the shotgun was enough,
Speaker 1: and since the family didn't ask for it back, they
Speaker 1: figured that the issue was resolved.
Speaker 2: You know, yes, but I don't think something like that
Speaker 2: resolves that quickly either, right.
Speaker 1: You're right, you're right, because clearly it wasn't. Now Brandon
Speaker 1: legally bought those two AR fifteen style rifles later that summer.
Speaker 1: Because this sort of stuff didn't go through the system. Right,
Speaker 1: all of this happened in the open without that system, sorry,
Speaker 1: with the system that was supposedly designed to stop it
Speaker 1: from occurring. The law existed, the warning was there, The
Speaker 1: chance to intervene was real and reachable, but it slipped.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: After the shooting, Marion County Prosecutor Ryan Meures faced heavy criticism.
Speaker 1: The Fraternal Order of Police accused him of sidestepping the process. Mears, however,
Speaker 1: for his part, said the red flag law had too
Speaker 1: many holes to be effective, which is why it was
Speaker 1: not implemented in this situation. Because if they had taken
Speaker 1: Brandon to court saying that he's too dangerous and should
Speaker 1: be barred from purchasing rifles. If they lost the case,
Speaker 1: guess what what they'd have to give him the shotgun back?
Speaker 2: Oh shit? Really yeah, and like, okay, I'm assuming too
Speaker 2: he can probably be present in there. Oh yeah, defending
Speaker 2: himself or whatnot.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, this is a legal proceeding. Yeah, okay, So
Speaker 1: now we understand why they didn't proceed with this red
Speaker 1: flag law and try and get them barred. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: it's two sides of the corner, and is either he
Speaker 1: gets all the fucking guns he wants now or huh,
Speaker 1: you know, we hope it's resolved and we.
Speaker 2: Take the one that he has at the moment exactly.
Speaker 2: Oh that is really tough. Ah.
Speaker 1: So they didn't even try.
Speaker 2: Oh I don't love that at all.
Speaker 1: So it wasn't just a single missed opportunity. It was
Speaker 1: a chain of events that led to this. With my
Speaker 1: safety background, we call this the Swiss cheese effect, because
Speaker 1: you line up a bunch of pieces of Swiss cheese
Speaker 1: all with the holes in them, and eventually you line
Speaker 1: them up long enough, there's going to be a hole
Speaker 1: leading right through all of them and stuff falls through. Now,
Speaker 1: by the time anyone realized how fragile that chain was
Speaker 1: or in my case, the Swiss cheese pile was effect. Yeah,
Speaker 1: eight people were dead, gosh, And that weekend Indianapolis grieved hard.
Speaker 1: There were candlelight vigils at city parks, Prayers prayer circle
Speaker 1: were happening outside Seek temples for the four murdered members
Speaker 1: of the Sikh community who work there. Family members stood
Speaker 1: in front of microphones struggling to put their pain into words.
Speaker 1: And honestly, in the Sek community there was it was
Speaker 1: hard not to feel targeted for it to be racial,
Speaker 1: because you have this racial content found in his computer.
Speaker 1: He worked there before. There's a heavy Seak community working
Speaker 1: at this place. So though it's not official that they
Speaker 1: say it was a racial driven situation, it's hard not
Speaker 1: to feel that it may have been.
Speaker 2: It's it definitely like, yeah, it crossed my mind for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Mayor Joe Hoagsitt called it a quote scourge of gun violence.
Speaker 1: Community leaders said enough was enough, and President Joe Biden
Speaker 1: at the time ordered a flags to be flown half mass,
Speaker 1: calling the shooting the country's repeated failure to stop this
Speaker 1: kind of violence quote a national embarrassment.
Speaker 2: Okay, I just have a slight question here. This eight
Speaker 2: people dead, is that including him or or does that
Speaker 2: make it nine?
Speaker 1: No, that's eight people murdered.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Okay, I wasn't certain. Okay, damn So he was
Speaker 2: and half of them are from that one community.
Speaker 1: Correct, Yeah, so he would be the ninth dead. So
Speaker 1: you have eight murdered, one self deleted, and several injured.
Speaker 2: Yes, I would imagine.
Speaker 1: Now, one speaker at this about this said basically what
Speaker 1: a lot of people were thinking. Quote, you're not wondering
Speaker 1: if there will be another math shooting, You're wondering when. Yep,
Speaker 1: because this is a very well known thing at this
Speaker 1: point that in the United States of America there is
Speaker 1: an epidemic in regards to mass shootings occurring. In fact,
Speaker 1: there's memes about it occurring in schools and stuff you
Speaker 1: can find on like Instagram and the Internet all over
Speaker 1: the place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so, it's really fucked up, actually it is. Now.
Speaker 1: In the weeks that followed the shooting in Indianapolis was quiet.
Speaker 1: It felt very different. There was grief, yes, but also
Speaker 1: in the sense of a collective exhaustion. Another mass shooting
Speaker 1: in America, another round of funerals, another group of families
Speaker 1: that were shattered, people started asking what now, what can
Speaker 1: actually change the seat. Community still in mourning leaned in tradition.
Speaker 1: Temples held daily prayer services. Community kitchens served meals to
Speaker 1: anyone who walked in. It was part of healing, part protest,
Speaker 1: as well an active resilience in the face of fear.
Speaker 1: At Arsenal Park, eight trees were planted in memory of
Speaker 1: the victims, one for each life that was lost. Politicians
Speaker 1: offered condolences, some offered more than others. Democrats in the
Speaker 1: state House. They pushed for stronger red flag legislations, hoping
Speaker 1: to close the very gap that let Brandon buy those
Speaker 1: guns in the first place, but it stalled and the
Speaker 1: session ended before an thing passed. In April of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three, two years after the shooting, some of the
Speaker 1: victim's families filed a lawsuit against the US distributor and
Speaker 1: German manufacture of high capacity magazines used in the shooting.
Speaker 1: They wanted someone, anyone, to be held accountable. If the
Speaker 1: system wouldn't change through laws, maybe it could change through
Speaker 1: the courts. Meanwhile, people kept showing up to vigils, They
Speaker 1: kept sharing stories. Some just needed to say their loved
Speaker 1: one's names out loud again. Others needed to make sure
Speaker 1: that no one was forgotten. The FedEx shooting in Indianapolis
Speaker 1: wasn't just another entry in a long list of American
Speaker 1: mass shootings. In fact, each shooting has its own tragic
Speaker 1: tale that needs to be looked at much closer, and
Speaker 1: in this case, it's the story of a young man
Speaker 1: spiraling alone, a family, asking for help, and getting lost
Speaker 1: in the system, and also a red flag law that
Speaker 1: looked good on paper but fell flat when it mattered.
Speaker 1: Most Like most things in today's modern world, laws, procedures,
Speaker 1: and legislations are great in theory, but it's only ever
Speaker 1: on paper. Practical real world situations work much differently. This
Speaker 1: incident wasn't about ideology. It wasn't about revenge. It wasn't
Speaker 1: about the hate that was in someone, at least not
Speaker 1: in the traditional sense. It was something much harder to define,
Speaker 1: a need to feel power, a desire even to die,
Speaker 1: but not quietly. The FBI called it a suicidal murder.
Speaker 1: The shooter wanted to prove something about masculinity or strength,
Speaker 1: about the ability to take lives before ending their own.
Speaker 1: That's what makes this case so frustrating. It didn't fit
Speaker 1: the usual mold that we're used to. There's no manifesto,
Speaker 1: no list of enemies, or grand justification, just silence, planning,
Speaker 1: and calm leading up to chaos. But that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: the red flags weren't there. His mother saw it, the
Speaker 1: police saw it, even he somehow seemed to know something
Speaker 1: was broken, but still nothing stopped him. And that's the
Speaker 1: worst part, because for every high profile shooting case that
Speaker 1: dominates headlines, there are dozens more that are just close calls,
Speaker 1: people in crisis, families asking for help, and systems not listening.
Speaker 1: This story, as brutal and senseless as it was, it's
Speaker 1: a glaring reminder of the truth. It's not always about politics.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's about what happens when nobody is willing to
Speaker 1: connect the dots, something we have talked about time and
Speaker 1: time again on this show, due diligence. It's a lack
Speaker 1: of caring and turning a blind eye even when all
Speaker 1: the signs are there. Now, I want to end today's
Speaker 1: episode with a quote from Brandon's mother, Sheila Hole, spoke
Speaker 1: candidly and emotionally about her son's mental health, her attempts
Speaker 1: to intervene in the grief and horror she felt after
Speaker 1: the shooting. During the interview, she recalled how she begged
Speaker 1: authorities to take his threats seriously more than a year
Speaker 1: before the attack occurred, especially after he told her you
Speaker 1: want to provoke police into killing him. After that tragedy,
Speaker 1: she expressed profound remorse and sorrow, not primarily for her son,
Speaker 1: but more for the victims. To quote her quote, I'll
Speaker 1: mourn the victims more than I'll mourn him, damn. And
Speaker 1: that's the story of the FedEx shooting.
Speaker 2: I was wondering, like I had thought about the mother too.
Speaker 2: I'm like, this probably just completely destroyed her.
Speaker 1: Really, yeah, I imagine so.
Speaker 2: Because yeah, she did try. And like, oh man, oh man,
Speaker 2: this one is horrible because I hate I mean, any
Speaker 2: death is like terrible and and stuff, right, but to
Speaker 2: lose a loved one, I feel like in this sort
Speaker 2: of way, so unexpectedly, and you know a lot of
Speaker 2: them had so much more life to live and stuff,
Speaker 2: and I just think, yeah, that would not be easy
Speaker 2: because there was literally no reason for this to happen.
Speaker 1: Not at all. I mean, in situations you can point to,
Speaker 1: you know, natural disasters or something happening, a failure and
Speaker 1: a mechanical device that causes you know, a car to
Speaker 1: convene off, veer off a road or or something. There's reasons,
Speaker 1: there's explanations, there's something to point to. The only thing
Speaker 1: we have to point to is a person. But there
Speaker 1: is zero why and that hurts so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a system that kind of failed to right,
Speaker 2: so it would make you more angry really.
Speaker 1: But that one though, is again we don't have a
Speaker 1: why from the system. We just have excuses from a system. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because it's not like that red flag policy or the
Speaker 1: red flag law or whatever has been fixed since it's
Speaker 1: still just sitting there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's so fucked up to that, Like
Speaker 2: someone is struggling and they they go and take you know,
Speaker 2: here in this instant eight other people's lives with them,
Speaker 2: Like holy shit, Yeah it is. It's just not okay.
Speaker 1: It's really not all to prove something to themselves that
Speaker 1: they think proved something to other people about masculinity or
Speaker 1: independence or power. It proves nothing.
Speaker 2: But in the end, does it act you know, like
Speaker 2: before he took his own life, did he prove anything
Speaker 2: to himself? Probably not really.
Speaker 1: Delusionally, I bet you he did. I bet you he
Speaker 1: felt something. Whether that was a delusion or whether it
Speaker 1: was reality. I mean, I'm heavily leaning on the side
Speaker 1: of delusion, but I could see it being up for debate.
Speaker 1: But I digress. I'm sure he felt something of proof
Speaker 1: of his concept that he is going out and seeking.
Speaker 1: He's saying, I'm gonna do this, so I can, you know,
Speaker 1: have this ability above you and I like I killed you.
Speaker 1: I'm stronger than you, I have more power than you.
Speaker 1: You're running away from me in fear, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, And the thing is too how long he
Speaker 2: went about planning it, right, So it's like very very premeditated.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, which also, like everything just makes it worse, really,
Speaker 2: it just makes it harder process and shittier feeling.
Speaker 1: I just really hope that something can be figured out
Speaker 1: soon in regards to these mass shootings. I mean, governments
Speaker 1: really need to be taking things seriously and obviously like
Speaker 1: they are to many degrees. Could you have this red
Speaker 1: flag law being put in place now? Is it faulty? Sure,
Speaker 1: it's a new law, but they are putting legislation in place.
Speaker 1: Does more need to be done, yes, yeah, but there
Speaker 1: is some attempts at.
Speaker 2: And it's not fully a United States issue, like we
Speaker 2: get we have them here too, there was one not
Speaker 2: that long ago, and gosh yeah, I mean, but it's
Speaker 2: also hard because I think you can do you can
Speaker 2: do certain things, but I also think, yeah, if there's
Speaker 2: a will, there's a way, and if someone really wants
Speaker 2: to do this, they're going to figure it out, I guess, right,
Speaker 2: which is horrible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you said, when there's a will, there's a way,
Speaker 1: it's right, It's very true, and it's unfortunate. Anyways, that
Speaker 1: was a heavy episode. I don't really like covering mass
Speaker 1: shootings all that much generally because people who do it,
Speaker 1: they're looking for that attention. But I also do think
Speaker 1: it's a topic that we really need to discuss because
Speaker 1: it's something that it takes so many lives. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of people who need help, who can commit these crimes,
Speaker 1: and you know what, something needs to be done well.
Speaker 2: And we didn't even touch on the fact that the
Speaker 2: people that had to show up that night, like the
Speaker 2: first responders, holy shit, Yeah, the scene that they're walking
Speaker 2: into definitely, you know, oh goshfect it just like the
Speaker 2: list of people that this incident affected is huge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, first responders, the.
Speaker 2: Communities like the city that you know.
Speaker 1: Frick Yeah, it's a spider web. It just goes out
Speaker 1: from there. Anyways, Thank you for being here. Don't forget
Speaker 1: to check out the description in this podcast for more
Speaker 1: more links and stuff. We have another podcast, did you
Speaker 1: know that. It's called Fearful. You can go and listen
Speaker 1: to it. It covers some spooky things, historical, paranormal, that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. Check it out. Also check out the
Speaker 1: other links. We appreciate review or an independent podcast myself Nicole.
Speaker 1: It's us, no one else owns it. We do the research,
Speaker 1: the writing, the talking, the editing, the uploading, the social
Speaker 1: media what else, patroon, Patreon, all the social media, we do,
Speaker 1: all the things. It's us and only us, So we
Speaker 1: appreciate all the support and thank you for being here.
Speaker 1: And until next time, stay wicked.