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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to something rather than the creator and hosts

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<v Speaker 1>Ken Valente, that is her producer Peer Bower.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, everybody, this is ken Valante with Something rather Than

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<v Speaker 2>Nothing podcast. I have Rachel Verne on the show, and

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<v Speaker 2>you're gonna hear some enthusiasm in my voice because Rachel's

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<v Speaker 2>new book, Prioritize Play is out. And in case you're

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<v Speaker 2>wondering who Rachel is, Rachel is an artist, play enthusiast

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<v Speaker 2>and creativity height galp based in Detroit, Michigan. She helps

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<v Speaker 2>people prioritize play to overcome creative blocks, better connect with

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<v Speaker 2>themselves and their people, and confidently live big, fulfilling lives.

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<v Speaker 2>When she's not facilitating play workshops or co hosting the

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<v Speaker 2>Chaotic Creatives podcast, she's likely gabbing with Palells over voice

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<v Speaker 2>notes and making a weird paper machine. Yes, Rachel, you're

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<v Speaker 2>perfect for the show. Welcome on.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much for having me. Thrilled to be here.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a weird note to connect on, but very rarely

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<v Speaker 2>I've seen people chatting over voice notes, which is something

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<v Speaker 2>that I do, and I think there's nobody in the world,

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<v Speaker 2>not nobody in the world you'd do it, but I

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<v Speaker 2>try to build up the habits and other people because

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<v Speaker 2>my brain processes everything and I'm thinking, if I want

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<v Speaker 2>to talk to you, Rachel, I'm gonna leave you tw

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<v Speaker 2>and a half minutes everything that's in my head and

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<v Speaker 2>leave a voice note for you.

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<v Speaker 3>So yeah, oh, I love it. I love it. I

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<v Speaker 3>feel like it's in today's age when when it's harder

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<v Speaker 3>to connect in person, I feel better connected when I

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<v Speaker 3>can hear my friend's voice and yeah, okay, you know

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<v Speaker 3>it's like, yeah, we could do a phone call, and

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<v Speaker 3>we do those, but sometimes you just want to share

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<v Speaker 3>a little piece of information, share a little thing that happens, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>and I like to do that, be a voice note.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and we say it's a little piece of information,

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<v Speaker 2>but it could be a lot, it could be about.

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<v Speaker 2>But I know, I love it. You know. I I

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<v Speaker 2>interview a lot of a lot of artists, guests, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, authors and those who put out books take

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<v Speaker 2>us into like right now. I always get excited for

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<v Speaker 2>an author. You know, you got your your book out there.

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<v Speaker 2>I saw there was just an absolutely fantastic kind of

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<v Speaker 2>like event that you put on book launch. But with

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<v Speaker 2>everything that's going on right now with prioritized. Play just

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<v Speaker 2>been out for just a week or two. Uh, Rachel,

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<v Speaker 2>tell us about what it's been like, you know, with

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<v Speaker 2>this book out in the world, and what's been going

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<v Speaker 2>on for you lately.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, it's two weeks today and the day we're

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<v Speaker 3>recording that the book has been out, and it still

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't feel real for me because this is my first book.

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<v Speaker 3>And but I'm getting so much great feedback already, people

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<v Speaker 3>saying that they're loving it, that it is impacting them,

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<v Speaker 3>that they're sharing it with their people, And that's exactly

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<v Speaker 3>what I hope to do. I just want people to

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<v Speaker 3>realize that we are in charge of creating the lives

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<v Speaker 3>that we want, and and Play I think is a

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<v Speaker 3>really approachable tool that we can use to start doing that.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a great it's a great guy. Like I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know what the term like guide, but like just listeners.

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<v Speaker 2>As a book, it's it's it's a beautiful, beautiful and

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<v Speaker 2>inviting book with illustrations and lots of activities and like

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<v Speaker 2>once you hear activities, like a lot of us like

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<v Speaker 2>rush through books, and but like with the activities, like

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<v Speaker 2>in going through it, there's things for me to do

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<v Speaker 2>later there's things that I can do right now, and

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<v Speaker 2>even just what I wrote, like on one of these

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<v Speaker 2>prompts you have, I had this amazing experience when I

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<v Speaker 2>looked at the prompt and I'm like, I don't even

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<v Speaker 2>remember writing that idea down and it was just like

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<v Speaker 2>it was just last week, and I'm like, that's a

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<v Speaker 2>really strange idea. So just the type of thing where as, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>where you're at, we're talking about play here, and of course, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm assuming with us being artistically inclined, like a play

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<v Speaker 2>isn't so abnormal, but but culturally, but culturally I think

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<v Speaker 2>you deal with this right like you talk to people

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<v Speaker 2>right now. Everybody's busy. Everybody's so busy, right like speed

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<v Speaker 2>up of the world, you know, whatever it's moving towards.

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<v Speaker 2>And then artists point to as you do and discover, hey, look,

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<v Speaker 2>you're super creative by you being a human and in

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<v Speaker 2>re engaging, uh with with play, which you know some

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<v Speaker 2>people might find frivolous. But what is what is it

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<v Speaker 2>that you want to do helping folks, you know, and

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<v Speaker 2>whether it's going back in time or finding the activity

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<v Speaker 2>that they want? Why play? And what does what does

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<v Speaker 2>play like lead us? To it, like as far as

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<v Speaker 2>as a human artist.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I started using the language of play because

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<v Speaker 3>I have always been a creative person. But I think

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<v Speaker 3>I buried it to kind of chase these societal expectations

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<v Speaker 3>that I didn't I didn't even realize I was chasing

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<v Speaker 3>sort of like the career milestones and the social milestones

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<v Speaker 3>of of find a partner, get married, by a house,

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<v Speaker 3>mil your lawn, like I think so many of us

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<v Speaker 3>fall into, especially into adulthood. Like you said, we're so busy,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's easy to kind of get caught up in

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<v Speaker 3>the urgency and the like I have to spend all

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<v Speaker 3>of my time being productive. I have to climb the

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<v Speaker 3>career ladder. I have to do these things in order

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<v Speaker 3>to feel successful. And without realizing it, our life is

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<v Speaker 3>kind of passively happening to us. And I think that

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<v Speaker 3>that is what was happening to me and my creativity,

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<v Speaker 3>that I was stifling to kind of chase those milestones,

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<v Speaker 3>even even subconsciously. I don't think it was a conscious effort.

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<v Speaker 3>I the creativity was bubbling up. It was just like

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<v Speaker 3>you gotta let me out. I need to I need

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<v Speaker 3>to have an outlet, and I my story is interwoven

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<v Speaker 3>in the book, and I talk about how I was

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<v Speaker 3>using my career title as my identity without realizing it.

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<v Speaker 3>And I just don't think that humans are meant to

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<v Speaker 3>identify with their jobs. I think we're we're meant to

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<v Speaker 3>identify with the things that light us up and how

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<v Speaker 3>we connect with people. Like we ask kids, what do

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<v Speaker 3>you want to be when you grow up? And they say,

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<v Speaker 3>and we expect adults expect answers like fireman, teacher, engineer, lawyer, whatever,

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<v Speaker 3>But you could ideally expect answers of I want to

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<v Speaker 3>be funny, I want to be a good friend, I

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<v Speaker 3>want to be kind, I want to be creative. But

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<v Speaker 3>the way that our culture is right now, it just

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<v Speaker 3>that's not sort of the mindset that our society encourages.

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<v Speaker 3>And so I explored my creativity and I got to

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<v Speaker 3>a point where I was putting a ton of pressure

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<v Speaker 3>on it to make money. And then I was like,

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<v Speaker 3>I just want to do something for fun for me.

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<v Speaker 3>And when I gave myself permission to do that, my

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<v Speaker 3>life change. I was like, Oh, this doesn't have to

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<v Speaker 3>have any purpose other than making me happy. And when

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<v Speaker 3>I started doing that, I started chasing more things like that.

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<v Speaker 3>But when I started talking about it in this term,

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<v Speaker 3>in the terms of creativity, because like you said, we're artists,

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<v Speaker 3>that's that's kind of how we think. I got a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of pushback from people saying, well, that's easy for you,

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<v Speaker 3>you're creative. I'm not creative. And I just think that

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<v Speaker 3>creativity is a natural human urge or experience. It's just

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<v Speaker 3>that we have such narrow views of what creativity is.

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<v Speaker 3>So people in general might think of creativity as making

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<v Speaker 3>a painting or or dressing in a weird way, but

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<v Speaker 3>it could be making a meal, or it could be

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<v Speaker 3>how you how you invite conversation over dinner. And I

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<v Speaker 3>realized that if I use the language of play, it's

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<v Speaker 3>approachable to more people while still getting at that creativity outlet.

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<v Speaker 3>And that was a long winded answer to your.

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<v Speaker 2>Question, Oh, this is long winded show. This is a

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<v Speaker 2>long winded show. No, like I you know, so I've

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<v Speaker 2>I've talked towards over three hundred episodes on the show,

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<v Speaker 2>and I found it fascinating for me that my interaction

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<v Speaker 2>with artists develops the show and moves it to a

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<v Speaker 2>different way. And one of the pieces it did is,

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<v Speaker 2>like I started as like art and philosophy show right,

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<v Speaker 2>like kick it around. It kind of means like I

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<v Speaker 2>could talk to anybody who's a creative. But the piece

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<v Speaker 2>that I added on like soon there after people ask

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<v Speaker 2>what the show is, I said, it's art and philosophy

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<v Speaker 2>and liberation. And like for me, it was like everybody

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<v Speaker 2>I was talking to, nobody had it all figured out.

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<v Speaker 2>We're humans, but they were they they were liberating themselves

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<v Speaker 2>from an idea from the childhood, negative criticism from the

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<v Speaker 2>partner that said you have to make money this way

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<v Speaker 2>and that like there was this liberation process, which for

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<v Speaker 2>me social activists and such, it's like so important. I

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<v Speaker 2>love being around people where they're like I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>shed this and I'm going to add that, and uh

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<v Speaker 2>it was a surprise for me to experience that through

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<v Speaker 2>the journey of doing the show. It's like you think

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<v Speaker 2>you create the like what it is and this is

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<v Speaker 2>what it is, and then you're like, oh, since I

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<v Speaker 2>embarked on this, I'm in a different place and I

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<v Speaker 2>got to I got to recognize that talking about like

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<v Speaker 2>when you talked about your shift, it's like, uh, the

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<v Speaker 2>idea of a total transformation and in freeing you were engineering, right,

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<v Speaker 2>weren't you right? So yeah, So like I was reading that,

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh gosh, like I can see that.

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<v Speaker 2>I could see the hard not necessarily but like a

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<v Speaker 2>hard tension building up there. I was talking about the

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<v Speaker 2>podcast of my podcast like in its like the sense

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<v Speaker 2>of exploration, and I've listened to your podcast, Chaotic Creatives,

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<v Speaker 2>and I really really enjoy it. I wanted to ask

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<v Speaker 2>you that particular way of going through the issues that

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<v Speaker 2>you talk about, what is the podcast done like as

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<v Speaker 2>a way of you developing your big themes?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh I love I love that you talked about your

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<v Speaker 3>experience with like realizing that liberation came with it too,

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<v Speaker 3>because I feel the same way about about my journey,

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<v Speaker 3>but also about the podcast, where it's like I have

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<v Speaker 3>these ideas and general philosophies on my work or connecting

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<v Speaker 3>with people or art in general, and just through conversations

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<v Speaker 3>with other curious people, and my podcast co host is

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<v Speaker 3>another curious person. Yeah, these through lines emerge and you

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<v Speaker 3>don't even realize that it's happening. But I always go

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<v Speaker 3>back and listen to our episodes so I can be like,

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<v Speaker 3>what did we talk about? Because we it's conversational, we ramble,

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<v Speaker 3>go on a side quest, but there are through lines

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<v Speaker 3>that emerge, and I think that that is that's what's

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<v Speaker 3>so beautiful about conversations. And like the sort of lack

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<v Speaker 3>of expectation that we put on the podcast is just like, hey,

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<v Speaker 3>let's talk about the things that we're going through because

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<v Speaker 3>that's ultimately relatable to people. And I'm sure you've experienced

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<v Speaker 3>that as well, but just through curiosity, there's so much

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<v Speaker 3>learning that can happen in a conversation, even.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, an ability to be wrong, which you know, not wrong,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know what I'm saying, Like when when when

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<v Speaker 2>the expectations and you're off and stuff you have to

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<v Speaker 2>like in the whole bit, like you talk about it

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<v Speaker 2>in a book, like in that growth in the like

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<v Speaker 2>the cringe is what makes us real like and and

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<v Speaker 2>for me, like I want to I want to read

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<v Speaker 2>you a little part of the book that was like

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<v Speaker 2>super important for me. Yeah, so you ask the initial

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<v Speaker 2>reflection questions in the beginning of the book and then

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<v Speaker 2>you say, are there things you want to work on

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<v Speaker 2>changing or evolving. I still frequently think of myself as

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<v Speaker 2>quote unquote annoying, but I know that my enthusiasm is

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<v Speaker 2>actually one of my superpowers. Being too much is relative.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not just I'm not just some people but not

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<v Speaker 2>expressive enough to others. Once we start to identify the

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<v Speaker 2>traits we want to be perceived with, and we identify

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<v Speaker 2>which negative traits we associate with ourselves, we can start

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<v Speaker 2>to work on them. And I think like there's such

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<v Speaker 2>like an affirmation of like the too muchness that is there,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's just the language that you just like really

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<v Speaker 2>kick to me because I've said that in my life,

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<v Speaker 2>like I like, whether it's in relationships and like it

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<v Speaker 2>can when you have a lot of energy and enthusiasm,

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<v Speaker 2>be like when you're engaging with people and you see

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<v Speaker 2>them trail off and they don't dislike you or anything

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<v Speaker 2>like that, but you see that. So it really recognized

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<v Speaker 2>a phenomenon. But also like going in and being like

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<v Speaker 2>you know what, like I'm me and and and then

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm not too much or or or too little.

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<v Speaker 2>That was like really pivotal like uh for me to read,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think it's really good like as uh like

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<v Speaker 2>as a basis when you're going into plays, like don't

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<v Speaker 2>take yourself so seriously make mistakes who gives a fuck

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<v Speaker 2>what other people are saying when you're going down to

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<v Speaker 2>it and you're lining in with what you want to do.

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<v Speaker 2>And that was a great affirmation to me. How'd you

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<v Speaker 2>get to that point where you could say that in

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<v Speaker 2>that yeah for you? How do you get to that

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<v Speaker 2>point where you're just like I am me?

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, like I say in the book, it's imperfect.

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<v Speaker 3>I talk about imperfect action and I think, I think,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I still feel that way. I still feel

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<v Speaker 3>like I'm annoying, but it's like being aware of it

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<v Speaker 3>is the first step, and then giving myself, like treating

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<v Speaker 3>myself as if I were talking to a best friend,

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<v Speaker 3>where it's like, I don't think you're annoying. I think

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<v Speaker 3>you're amazing and the right people will find you as

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<v Speaker 3>long as you're being yourself. And I think for so

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<v Speaker 3>long I dimmed a lot of my light and enthusiasm

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<v Speaker 3>because I wanted to be taken seriously and be a professional.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think so many people do that and can

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<v Speaker 3>be taken seriously when we are enthusiastic. I think when

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<v Speaker 3>we can find the things like our natural like gifts

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<v Speaker 3>and talents, when we can be living in that world,

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<v Speaker 3>it doesn't matter how enthusiastic or like obnoxious you are,

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<v Speaker 3>you can still be serious. Like I literally wrote a

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<v Speaker 3>book about play because.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm excited about it and worked hard on it.

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<v Speaker 3>I worked hard, Yeah, and one doesn't negate the other.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think for a long time, I think I

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<v Speaker 3>thought that it did. Like, oh well, if I'm like

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<v Speaker 3>giggly and asking silly questions and I'm wholesome, then I

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<v Speaker 3>will not be taken seriously and or I'm not attracting

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<v Speaker 3>the like cool quote unquote cool people into my life.

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<v Speaker 3>And I don't want to attract quote unquote cool people.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to attract people who are authentically connecting with

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<v Speaker 3>me because we have shared interests and they value what

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<v Speaker 3>I value in myself. So to answer your question, I

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<v Speaker 3>think a lot of it was therapy and self reflection

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<v Speaker 3>and thinking about like Okay, why do I feel insecure

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<v Speaker 3>about this thing? Or like can I name it? And

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's what I try to get people to

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<v Speaker 3>do in the book, is like just becoming aware of

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<v Speaker 3>the maybe limiting beliefs that we have about ourselves and

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<v Speaker 3>what we're allowed to have in our lives. And a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of that is just like you know, from like

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<v Speaker 3>you mentioned earlier experiences like getting criticized in your elementary

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<v Speaker 3>art school class, or or you know you had a

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<v Speaker 3>rough childhood, or a bad partner or a bad boss.

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<v Speaker 3>All of us have these limiting experiences, and it's kind

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<v Speaker 3>of like, how can we work to acknowledge them and

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<v Speaker 3>be nice to ourselves and just like really think about

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<v Speaker 3>what lights me up the most, what's going to make

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<v Speaker 3>me happiest in my life? And like, if judgment weren't

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<v Speaker 3>an issue, if money weren't an issue, how would I

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<v Speaker 3>want to live? And we may not be able to

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<v Speaker 3>do that because we live in a world where judgment

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<v Speaker 3>and money are issues and we have to pay our bills.

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<v Speaker 3>But what little steps can we take to kind of

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<v Speaker 3>like just be in the direction of the life that

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<v Speaker 3>we're craving or yearning for.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I loved I loved that spot. Talk about some

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<v Speaker 2>some some some art questions, and what I wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>ask you is when when did you see yourself as

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<v Speaker 2>an artist? When did that happen? Like was it a

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<v Speaker 2>moment or.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's a great question, and it's it's when when

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<v Speaker 3>I first started doing talk therapy. Uh, maybe like six

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<v Speaker 3>or seven years ago. I remember feeling this discontent with

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<v Speaker 3>my life, like just like, oh, I just sort of

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<v Speaker 3>feel like I want something bigger, but I can't articulate

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<v Speaker 3>what it is. Like this isn't the life I'm supposed

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<v Speaker 3>to live, but I don't know what life I'm supposed

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<v Speaker 3>to live. I just don't feel good. And it's you know,

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<v Speaker 3>through classic therapy questions, we got to the point where

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<v Speaker 3>I couldn't even call myself a creative, even though anyone

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<v Speaker 3>that knows me for my entire life would say that

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<v Speaker 3>I'm a creative.

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<v Speaker 2>Really you couldn't say that.

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<v Speaker 3>I couldn't even say creative, and so like to first

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<v Speaker 3>admit like I want to be an artist, that felt

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<v Speaker 3>like I'm not allowed to have that. I didn't go

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<v Speaker 3>to art school. I don't have, you know, disposable income

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<v Speaker 3>that I can just like live off of so that

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<v Speaker 3>I can make art all day and lounge around in

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<v Speaker 3>southern France like I had. I had these like judgments

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<v Speaker 3>and these like expectations of what it meant to be

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<v Speaker 3>an artist. And so through a lot of reflection and

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<v Speaker 3>I've read a million self help books, the Artist's Way

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<v Speaker 3>was really impactful. I quote Julia Cameron a lot in

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<v Speaker 3>the book. I realize like, oh, it's not it's not

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<v Speaker 3>selfish to want to live the life that I want

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<v Speaker 3>to live. And that's okay. And so I do this

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<v Speaker 3>thing where I tell the people I work with, like,

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<v Speaker 3>what's what title do you want to have? And for me,

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<v Speaker 3>it's like capital a artist, and I say, we got

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<v Speaker 3>a costplay as that version until it feels real. So

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<v Speaker 3>I was introducing myself as an artist and I did

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<v Speaker 3>this on the podcast. I said it. I was like,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm on my podcast, Create of Craves. I was like,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going to practice introducing myself as an artist. Sure,

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<v Speaker 3>And so I did that for like a season. Still

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<v Speaker 3>didn't feel real. I think I am still in the

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<v Speaker 3>practicing phase. I think, I know, I know it's true.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm yeking art. I make art every day, but I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know what it will take for it to feel

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<v Speaker 3>like this is real. So I'm like, I'm okay with

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00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:41.519
<v Speaker 3>costs playing as it if it takes forever. You know,

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00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:43.960
<v Speaker 3>this is my armor, my it's it's my you know,

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<v Speaker 3>costume that I'm putting on of artists. And then eventually

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<v Speaker 3>it won't feel so much like a costume.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow. Wow, I've just listened to your Eartahs, this is

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's like a great surprise, but it makes inherent sense. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>let me ask, Let me ask, Let me ask, uh

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<v Speaker 2>we use in like art in like the big word art.

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<v Speaker 2>What is r What do you view as as as

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<v Speaker 2>art in your relationship? You know with you being an artist?

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<v Speaker 3>M I love this question, and I think I like

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<v Speaker 3>being naive to like the capital a art world like I,

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<v Speaker 3>like you said, I was an engineer. I went to

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<v Speaker 3>engineering college. That's what my degrees are in. I have

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<v Speaker 3>no formal art education, so I don't know how things work.

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<v Speaker 3>And for a long time I felt like that was

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<v Speaker 3>to my detriment, But I actually think like me being

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<v Speaker 3>naive to things gives me freedom. Like I have no

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<v Speaker 3>idea what I'm quote unquote supposed to do, so I

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<v Speaker 3>just do what feels good. And art for me in

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<v Speaker 3>this exploration that I've been in the last couple of years,

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<v Speaker 3>is pross making the weird shit in my brain but

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<v Speaker 3>really processing what I'm feeling. And it doesn't have to

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<v Speaker 3>be an exact representation of that. But art is a

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<v Speaker 3>practice that I'm doing to connect with myself. It's not

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<v Speaker 3>necessarily about the product. It's about the process of making.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I I just love that answered.

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<v Speaker 3>What what is the.

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<v Speaker 2>I asked, Well, so like right now, anybody I talked to,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it's my own disposition, right, Like, let's

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<v Speaker 2>take the world frame right now, twenty twenty six, like

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<v Speaker 2>temperatures getting hotter, getting hotter, and and you gotta you

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<v Speaker 2>get these fucking data centers that gobblin up water and

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<v Speaker 2>like everything like geopolitical stuff, and so the times feel different,

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<v Speaker 2>they feel different to me. I also know that humans

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<v Speaker 2>always think the end is coming. It's always around the corner.

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<v Speaker 2>I also know that too. But is there something Is

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<v Speaker 2>there something about the role of art rate now as

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking twenty twenty six, is there something different about

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<v Speaker 2>the role of art? Or is art just arting as

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<v Speaker 2>it has in a different way.

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<v Speaker 3>Ooh, that's a good question, I feel again because I

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<v Speaker 3>feel so naive too, sort of the like the corporate

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<v Speaker 3>art world, Like I don't know anything about galleries or

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<v Speaker 3>what it means to be successful. I know what it

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<v Speaker 3>means for me to be successful, and I think we

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<v Speaker 3>all need to define our own level of success. And

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<v Speaker 3>that's just like I get to make my art, that's it.

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<v Speaker 3>That's success for me is like I have the space,

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<v Speaker 3>time and resources to make what I want to make.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think I think art is more. And maybe,

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<v Speaker 3>like you said, humans have always thought that the ends

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<v Speaker 3>are something we're living in the worst possible timeline. But

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's so important because I think we're all

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<v Speaker 3>so many of us are like cogs in this like

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<v Speaker 3>late stage capitalist machine where we don't have time and

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<v Speaker 3>we've lost our sense of community and identity. And I

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<v Speaker 3>think art and play for me are tools that we

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<v Speaker 3>can use to reconnect with ourselves to figure out like

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<v Speaker 3>what does it mean to be me? Like who am I?

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<v Speaker 3>What makes me happy? What do I enjoy doing? And

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<v Speaker 3>then also by doing that, the more that we can

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<v Speaker 3>figure out who we are and live that version cosplay

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<v Speaker 3>as that version of ourselves that we want to be,

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<v Speaker 3>the more we'll be able to connect with others who

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<v Speaker 3>feel the same way and disconnect from sort of that productivity.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm only successful if I'm making a lot of money,

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<v Speaker 3>if I'm climbing the corporate ladder, like the liberation that

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<v Speaker 3>you talked about, where it's like we need to redefine

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<v Speaker 3>what success in life means. And I think art is

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<v Speaker 3>a huge component of that that we have maybe lost,

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<v Speaker 3>but many of us are finding our way back to.

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<v Speaker 2>Does that make sense, yes, sure does I've I've been

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<v Speaker 2>a notice and like even in talking in the conversation

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<v Speaker 2>and talking about like the like the lack of background,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm fascinated by that because like my my trajectory and

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<v Speaker 2>like using art or thinking about being an artist is

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<v Speaker 2>I can tell you for sure that I've literally never

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<v Speaker 2>had a formal art class, like an extended formal art class,

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<v Speaker 2>I know, And I've loved doing this as I've as

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<v Speaker 2>I've lived, I've dropped into like workshops and stuff like

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<v Speaker 2>that and been enthralled by that. So it's been intermittent

418
00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:55.559
<v Speaker 2>and absolutely enjoyed that. But even like art history, anything

419
00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:58.480
<v Speaker 2>I would know anything about that is completely self taught.

420
00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:00.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know the bio if he's in general or

421
00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:04.160
<v Speaker 2>creators except for listening to like other podcasts, I'm interested

422
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:06.559
<v Speaker 2>in it. But it's like there's something about like this

423
00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:09.599
<v Speaker 2>conversation with like lack of formal training that like it's

424
00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:14.400
<v Speaker 2>that it seems like just so cool, like and even

425
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.559
<v Speaker 2>my approach to philosophy when it first started was like

426
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:20.000
<v Speaker 2>I took a philosophy of art class, it was still

427
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:22.480
<v Speaker 2>like and I love the conceptual questions, but it was

428
00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:26.279
<v Speaker 2>still like, what is this big thing art from from

429
00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:30.400
<v Speaker 2>from the outside. But I find it so strange because

430
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:33.359
<v Speaker 2>it's a tough thing for maybe for me to overcome

431
00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:35.720
<v Speaker 2>and you to overcome too, of being like, why the

432
00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:38.000
<v Speaker 2>hell do you say anything about art if you, like,

433
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:40.640
<v Speaker 2>if you haven't done this, And I think just kind

434
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:42.920
<v Speaker 2>of like disregarding that and put it back to like

435
00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:46.359
<v Speaker 2>play and creativity is being like, hey, whether it's a

436
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:50.119
<v Speaker 2>cosplayer or not, we're looking pretty good, like you know,

437
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:53.359
<v Speaker 2>like we're we're doing our thing, and then talking about

438
00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:59.400
<v Speaker 2>it in in a in a real way. I wanted

439
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:03.559
<v Speaker 2>because I saw the video of your book launch, I

440
00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:06.519
<v Speaker 2>want you to tell, like I want to like tell

441
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:11.599
<v Speaker 2>the audience of how you did that. It had so

442
00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:14.160
<v Speaker 2>many different components, but I want you to drop in

443
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:17.559
<v Speaker 2>a little bit like about the book launch itself and

444
00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:20.839
<v Speaker 2>some of the creative activity that you built around the launch.

445
00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:24.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Absolutely, And I think it ties into the sort

446
00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:27.720
<v Speaker 3>of the conversation about like the lack of training and

447
00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:30.640
<v Speaker 3>just like being okay with being naive, like so many

448
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:34.359
<v Speaker 3>adults think they can't do something because they're going to

449
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:36.400
<v Speaker 3>be bad at it, and it's like, you're allowed to

450
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:38.880
<v Speaker 3>be bad. We can be bad at things. We can

451
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:43.160
<v Speaker 3>be you know, childlike at the things that we want

452
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:44.880
<v Speaker 3>to try. We don't have to be good. We don't

453
00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:47.519
<v Speaker 3>have to aspire to be good at things to enjoy

454
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:50.880
<v Speaker 3>doing them. And that is what I told myself. With

455
00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:54.880
<v Speaker 3>the book launch party, I was like, Okay, there are

456
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:58.000
<v Speaker 3>traditional ways that people have launched books. This is a

457
00:26:58.119 --> 00:27:01.480
<v Speaker 3>non traditional book. It's createsivity, it's self help. There's a

458
00:27:01.559 --> 00:27:04.200
<v Speaker 3>little bit of play. There's a lot of play, but

459
00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:06.440
<v Speaker 3>there's also a little bit of my story. And I

460
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:10.000
<v Speaker 3>want to have those facets in that I talk about

461
00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:12.960
<v Speaker 3>in the book represented in the book launch party. So

462
00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:21.480
<v Speaker 3>I rented a warehouse in Detroit. And I love attention

463
00:27:21.640 --> 00:27:23.720
<v Speaker 3>to detail, which I talk about in the book. I

464
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:26.559
<v Speaker 3>think when we're paying attention and we're intentional about every

465
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:29.839
<v Speaker 3>part of our lives, it's more fulfilling. And so I

466
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:32.640
<v Speaker 3>wanted everyone to come to this party and feel like,

467
00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:35.000
<v Speaker 3>oh my god, she thought of everything and this is

468
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:38.680
<v Speaker 3>so silly and fun. So had all these stations, so

469
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:42.759
<v Speaker 3>people got at the door when they checked in, they

470
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:46.559
<v Speaker 3>got a goodie bag filled with dice and pom poms

471
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:51.519
<v Speaker 3>and a postcard and stickers and just like fun merch

472
00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:55.000
<v Speaker 3>because I love that kind of stuff, like custom merch.

473
00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:57.960
<v Speaker 3>And then they got a novelty cup that was either

474
00:27:57.960 --> 00:28:01.480
<v Speaker 3>shaped like a smiley face of basketball or ice. And

475
00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:03.640
<v Speaker 3>then they walk into the party and there's all these

476
00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:09.480
<v Speaker 3>different stations and one was I hired a face painter,

477
00:28:09.799 --> 00:28:12.119
<v Speaker 3>and this is like, this is an adults party. It's not.

478
00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:17.079
<v Speaker 3>It's not a children's birthday party. And that face painter

479
00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:20.200
<v Speaker 3>was busy all night, like she has like I'm done,

480
00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:25.640
<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry. Yeah, And that makes me so happy because

481
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:28.039
<v Speaker 3>it's like, how often are adults getting their faces painted?

482
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:29.799
<v Speaker 3>Like if there's a face painter at an event that

483
00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:31.559
<v Speaker 3>I went to, I would be like, oh, I feel bad,

484
00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:33.279
<v Speaker 3>the kids are waiting. I'm not going to stand in

485
00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:36.279
<v Speaker 3>line and wait. And this was giving permission, and I

486
00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:38.720
<v Speaker 3>think giving permission is what the book is about. And

487
00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:41.160
<v Speaker 3>so there's there was the face painter. I had a

488
00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:44.440
<v Speaker 3>photo booth station. I had a collage table where I

489
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.720
<v Speaker 3>brought all my collage materials and people could make laminated bookmarks.

490
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:52.640
<v Speaker 3>I have this exercise in the book called making a

491
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.240
<v Speaker 3>playlist like a to do list filled with only play activities.

492
00:28:56.960 --> 00:28:59.799
<v Speaker 3>And I do this seasonally because I feel like it's

493
00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:01.640
<v Speaker 3>easy to kind of think back to what did I

494
00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:03.039
<v Speaker 3>like to do in the winter as a kid, Have

495
00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:06.599
<v Speaker 3>a snowball fight, drink hot chocolate, and those little tiny

496
00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:10.240
<v Speaker 3>actions are what can help propel us into this life

497
00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:13.960
<v Speaker 3>of play and creativity. So I made big poster board

498
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:18.240
<v Speaker 3>with empty playlists and had people write their favorite seasonal activities.

499
00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:23.240
<v Speaker 3>I had these silly questions for conversation. I had my

500
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:28.480
<v Speaker 3>friends are really talented chefs, like home chefs, and they

501
00:29:28.519 --> 00:29:30.960
<v Speaker 3>made this six foot long sandwich that we cut up

502
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:33.039
<v Speaker 3>into a bunch of pieces. So there's just this visual

503
00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:37.440
<v Speaker 3>impact of a huge sandwich and then the biggest part

504
00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:39.599
<v Speaker 3>And I think maybe this ties into the like when

505
00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:42.240
<v Speaker 3>did I feel like an artist? Or when am I

506
00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:45.480
<v Speaker 3>feeling validated in that feeling is I was like, well,

507
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:47.839
<v Speaker 3>it's my party. I'm going to have an art gallery

508
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:50.640
<v Speaker 3>with all the work that I've created. And so I

509
00:29:50.759 --> 00:29:53.480
<v Speaker 3>had a corner that was all of the work that

510
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:56.079
<v Speaker 3>I'm stoked about, and I set it up like an

511
00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:59.519
<v Speaker 3>art gallery on the white pillars and labeled everything and

512
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:04.160
<v Speaker 3>it was magical. I had a Bingo card so everyone

513
00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:07.720
<v Speaker 3>had activities to do because at big social events, I

514
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:10.039
<v Speaker 3>sometimes get overwhelmed and I'm like, I don't know if

515
00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:11.880
<v Speaker 3>I want to talk to a bunch of strangers all

516
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:14.039
<v Speaker 3>the time. So if there's an activity for me at

517
00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:15.440
<v Speaker 3>an event, I'm so happy.

518
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:15.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

519
00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:19.559
<v Speaker 3>And so there were things like check out the art gallery,

520
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:21.839
<v Speaker 3>right your silly question, get your face painted, eat a

521
00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:24.279
<v Speaker 3>part of the big Sandwich, and then if they got

522
00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:26.279
<v Speaker 3>a bingo, they can enter in. And I made these

523
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:28.960
<v Speaker 3>prize packs with lots of fun. So all of this,

524
00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:32.720
<v Speaker 3>all of those stations represented this like playful energy that

525
00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:35.720
<v Speaker 3>I'm trying to get people to realize, like we're allowed

526
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:37.920
<v Speaker 3>to do this in our lives, Like I made this

527
00:30:38.119 --> 00:30:40.680
<v Speaker 3>party up, I made this book up. Hell yeah, and

528
00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:43.799
<v Speaker 3>you can do it too. So it was a blast.

529
00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, I just want to hang out with you.

530
00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:59.880
<v Speaker 2>You're up there, you're up there in Detroit, and it's

531
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:04.759
<v Speaker 2>so it's so wonderful to hear about the book launch.

532
00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:10.200
<v Speaker 2>There's another iteration or your creativity that I saw and

533
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:12.720
<v Speaker 2>I was late in coming to It was fashion and

534
00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:15.759
<v Speaker 2>close and I just I've lost my mind on this piece.

535
00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:18.160
<v Speaker 2>Like the other stuff is I love that I've lost

536
00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:20.720
<v Speaker 2>my mind on this piece because like another another thing

537
00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:25.200
<v Speaker 2>with like going through the show is two out of

538
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:28.759
<v Speaker 2>three guests are non male genders. And I also have

539
00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:34.160
<v Speaker 2>talked to a lot of different indigenous guests over thirty

540
00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:37.440
<v Speaker 2>and have moved into things that I didn't expect, like

541
00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:40.960
<v Speaker 2>color and fashion, and I know you have this whole

542
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:45.359
<v Speaker 2>I want to talk about clothes in fashion because it

543
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:47.880
<v Speaker 2>was it was striking when I first saw images of you.

544
00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:51.200
<v Speaker 2>I like, your clothes were like so wild and fantastic

545
00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:54.599
<v Speaker 2>and like really cool. And then I was reading more

546
00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:59.319
<v Speaker 2>about how finding yourself and your identity and doing that,

547
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:03.000
<v Speaker 2>and I do believe at the launch party, everybody was

548
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:07.400
<v Speaker 2>wearing monochromatic yes, clothes which you had, which you had

549
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:12.880
<v Speaker 2>directed talk about the clothes, the fashion, wearing color, and

550
00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:16.079
<v Speaker 2>also like it seemed to me that you started to

551
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:19.240
<v Speaker 2>develop like a very large following, like of people being like,

552
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:22.680
<v Speaker 2>oh man, I'm gonna follow Rachel or be inspired by

553
00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:25.279
<v Speaker 2>Rachel and what she's doing. Can you talk about that

554
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:26.880
<v Speaker 2>whole bit because that's so fun.

555
00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:30.079
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Absolutely, I forgot that part of the party. There's

556
00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:31.440
<v Speaker 3>so many details of the party.

557
00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:33.160
<v Speaker 2>That I can that's I was like, I was like

558
00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:35.039
<v Speaker 2>even though this is a big one for me, this

559
00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:37.319
<v Speaker 2>is number twenty details, so I don't know if she's

560
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:38.000
<v Speaker 2>gonna remember it.

561
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:44.559
<v Speaker 3>No, Yeah, I did say like please wear color monochrome encouraged,

562
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:47.200
<v Speaker 3>and I was I was curious, Like a couple of

563
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:50.279
<v Speaker 3>my friends were like, Okay, who's gonna what are you

564
00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:52.400
<v Speaker 3>gonna do when people don't follow that rule? And I

565
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:54.920
<v Speaker 3>was like, it's okay, I bet most people will, and

566
00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:57.359
<v Speaker 3>sure enough, most people did, and it was it was

567
00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:02.319
<v Speaker 3>visually impactful like it it was so cool that people

568
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:04.759
<v Speaker 3>did it. And the photographer that I hired like got

569
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:08.079
<v Speaker 3>the different color groups together, and it just I think

570
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:12.200
<v Speaker 3>color is such an underutilized thing in adult life. Likes

571
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:15.519
<v Speaker 3>to wear all black. We have like, you know, we

572
00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:20.359
<v Speaker 3>had the millennial gray interior design aesthetic that was you know,

573
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:23.319
<v Speaker 3>had so many of us in a choke hold. And

574
00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:29.200
<v Speaker 3>for me, color is creative expression. And yeah, I have

575
00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:32.880
<v Speaker 3>had many like creative iterations. So when I was doing

576
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:37.000
<v Speaker 3>my engineering job, I was doing hand lettering, letter press printing,

577
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:38.960
<v Speaker 3>and I had a stationary business and I got really

578
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:41.480
<v Speaker 3>burnt out on that and I was putting a lot

579
00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:45.359
<v Speaker 3>of pressure on that. So I was like, Okay, I

580
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:50.160
<v Speaker 3>love getting dressed. I love thrifting, I love putting together

581
00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:52.319
<v Speaker 3>outfits that feel like me that no one else has.

582
00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:57.920
<v Speaker 3>And I really wanted to give myself an opportunity to

583
00:33:58.119 --> 00:34:04.599
<v Speaker 3>explore that and accountability to sharing it. And so during

584
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:09.679
<v Speaker 3>like you know, a year or so after COVID started,

585
00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:13.880
<v Speaker 3>we're all working from home, I'm wearing sweatpants and feeling

586
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:16.519
<v Speaker 3>pretty uninspired in my life, I was like, I'm going

587
00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:20.639
<v Speaker 3>to do a creative challenge, and I decided to do

588
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:25.360
<v Speaker 3>these style challenges. I called them the Rachel Renee Style Challenges,

589
00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:28.679
<v Speaker 3>and I was like, I'm going to post my outfits online.

590
00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:31.440
<v Speaker 3>And part of it was like me wanting to feel

591
00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:36.599
<v Speaker 3>comfortable feeling seen online because so many people will say like, oh,

592
00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:41.280
<v Speaker 3>I'm not comfortable with doing a real on the internet,

593
00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:43.280
<v Speaker 3>or I don't want people to judge me, and it's

594
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:45.519
<v Speaker 3>like that's going to happen either way. So if you

595
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:49.159
<v Speaker 3>feel called to share your version of creativity, you should

596
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:51.880
<v Speaker 3>do it. And so it was like I couldn't articulate

597
00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:55.079
<v Speaker 3>that then, but looking back, I definitely was like, oh,

598
00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:58.320
<v Speaker 3>I wanted to feel more seen, and so I created

599
00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:01.280
<v Speaker 3>these style challenges. I made a prompt like monochrome Mondays

600
00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:06.920
<v Speaker 3>or thrifted Thursdays, fancy Fridays, or they got weirder and

601
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:11.079
<v Speaker 3>weirder as the months progress, like we're doing barbecue sommer

602
00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:16.039
<v Speaker 3>as this week's theme, like like I'm wearing hot dog colors.

603
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:18.760
<v Speaker 3>Like just silly. But what it allowed me to do

604
00:35:18.920 --> 00:35:22.599
<v Speaker 3>is one feel more comfortable, feeling seen connect with people

605
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:25.079
<v Speaker 3>who were excited about the same things, because sometimes that's

606
00:35:25.119 --> 00:35:28.920
<v Speaker 3>hard to do in person. And so that's why I

607
00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:32.079
<v Speaker 3>love like online communities too, is because it's like we

608
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:34.559
<v Speaker 3>get to connect with people who are into the same

609
00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:39.400
<v Speaker 3>exact thing as us. And then it was a practice

610
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:43.280
<v Speaker 3>in me showing up authentically exploring my personal style. I

611
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:47.559
<v Speaker 3>was able to start articulating like oh I like these colors,

612
00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:52.039
<v Speaker 3>I like these materials, And it was a blast. But

613
00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:55.679
<v Speaker 3>I very quickly, like you said, I grew a following

614
00:35:55.719 --> 00:35:59.480
<v Speaker 3>around these style challenges, people participating and connecting, and I

615
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:03.400
<v Speaker 3>made lots of friends online through that challenge. But then

616
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:08.480
<v Speaker 3>when maybe like a year into it, I got kind

617
00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:11.000
<v Speaker 3>of like pigeonholed and people were considering me like a

618
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:15.800
<v Speaker 3>fashion influencer and that's fine, but I was feeling stifled.

619
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:17.519
<v Speaker 3>I was like that's not what I am. I don't

620
00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:20.159
<v Speaker 3>want to tell people to buy this stuff. I want

621
00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:23.480
<v Speaker 3>to give you permission to explore your style on your own, Like,

622
00:36:23.599 --> 00:36:26.719
<v Speaker 3>let me help you with these prompts, because it's what

623
00:36:27.079 --> 00:36:30.840
<v Speaker 3>helped me express myself creatively. And so that's where I

624
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:34.800
<v Speaker 3>started talking about creativity and creative expression and identity because

625
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:36.800
<v Speaker 3>I was like, these are close are tools for me

626
00:36:36.920 --> 00:36:40.960
<v Speaker 3>to show up as the identity that I want. And

627
00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:43.960
<v Speaker 3>then I got the pushback on the creativity terms with

628
00:36:44.039 --> 00:36:46.280
<v Speaker 3>people being like, well, that's you, not me, and that's

629
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:47.719
<v Speaker 3>why I was like, but we can play. We can

630
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:51.079
<v Speaker 3>play with clothes, and so yeah, clothes are very, very

631
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:54.920
<v Speaker 3>a very important part of my I think identity. I really,

632
00:36:55.639 --> 00:36:57.599
<v Speaker 3>I know, before we started recording, I showed you my

633
00:36:58.000 --> 00:36:59.599
<v Speaker 3>vintage Green Bay Packers sell you.

634
00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:05.119
<v Speaker 2>Shout out for that Green Bay Packers shirt. Rachel just

635
00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:06.320
<v Speaker 2>pointing that out for everybody.

636
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:10.079
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, and so like I love style, and I

637
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:14.880
<v Speaker 3>think style and close our tools to help us again,

638
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:17.320
<v Speaker 3>cosplay as the version of ourselves we want to be. Like,

639
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:19.159
<v Speaker 3>if I want to be an artist, I'm gonna dress

640
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:22.000
<v Speaker 3>a little bit more kooky. I'm gonna wear more colors.

641
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:25.599
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna wear weird wide leg pants because that will

642
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:28.199
<v Speaker 3>help me like step into that identity. So I think

643
00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:31.880
<v Speaker 3>clothes are a really cool way to express ourselves creatively.

644
00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:36.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, thanks for chatting about that. I think clothes

645
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:39.719
<v Speaker 2>and color. One of the things that I've talked to

646
00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:43.800
<v Speaker 2>guests before is like the development of my brain. Uh,

647
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:48.199
<v Speaker 2>when I started painting and and and moving into like

648
00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:51.280
<v Speaker 2>I started seeing a lot more different colors, and so

649
00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:55.239
<v Speaker 2>your activities where you're pulling things out for the environment,

650
00:37:55.320 --> 00:37:58.400
<v Speaker 2>we're very much like in my head of like seeing

651
00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:02.639
<v Speaker 2>and pulling out. And once I started to do that,

652
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:06.039
<v Speaker 2>they're talking about like change, like physical change, Like my

653
00:38:06.280 --> 00:38:10.519
<v Speaker 2>brain started to see differently, and that was like once

654
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:13.559
<v Speaker 2>I realized that happened, I was like, holy shit it

655
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:19.119
<v Speaker 2>and it was really true. Like, uh, painting, but I

656
00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:23.400
<v Speaker 2>very much apply to like speaking a monochromatic. I got

657
00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:29.320
<v Speaker 2>this Adidas track suit that's specifically the color is warm clay,

658
00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:33.960
<v Speaker 2>and that damn suit, Like I told, I tell my people,

659
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:36.760
<v Speaker 2>people joke with me about it. I said, that's my

660
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:39.480
<v Speaker 2>foremost I wear that thing anywhere, that warm clay at

661
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:42.280
<v Speaker 2>the tracksuit, I'm lined in. I'm lined in. When I

662
00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:44.960
<v Speaker 2>got that thing too, And that's what.

663
00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:48.679
<v Speaker 3>Style is so cool, because it's like that is the

664
00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:51.599
<v Speaker 3>piece or the set that makes you feel the most.

665
00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:54.320
<v Speaker 3>You Like, I have a couple of pieces where I'm like, oh,

666
00:38:54.519 --> 00:38:58.320
<v Speaker 3>I'm feeling insecure today, or I'm feeling low. I'm feeling low.

667
00:38:58.559 --> 00:39:01.559
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to put on this this eighties prom dress

668
00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:05.599
<v Speaker 3>and go to Costell. Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's like

669
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:08.119
<v Speaker 3>they are tools that we can use to like hype

670
00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:08.880
<v Speaker 3>ourselves up.

671
00:39:09.639 --> 00:39:14.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, so much. So much to talk about what's

672
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:17.880
<v Speaker 2>been with the book being out, any surprises as far

673
00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:22.280
<v Speaker 2>as like surprises in the process or somebody ran into

674
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:25.719
<v Speaker 2>or things you're starting starting to hear about your own book.

675
00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:31.760
<v Speaker 3>I haven't heard a lot yet, all good things, which

676
00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:34.199
<v Speaker 3>are great. I haven't seen any negative reviews yet, which

677
00:39:34.280 --> 00:39:37.599
<v Speaker 3>is fantastic, but I assume they'll come. I'm trying to

678
00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:41.880
<v Speaker 3>mentally prepare for that. I think I'm just really excited

679
00:39:41.960 --> 00:39:45.880
<v Speaker 3>to see how this connects me with like more creative

680
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:49.679
<v Speaker 3>communities and getting this in the hands of more people

681
00:39:49.719 --> 00:39:54.000
<v Speaker 3>and realizing like, yeah, play and creativity are tools that

682
00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:58.440
<v Speaker 3>we can use to live for ourselves. I am excited

683
00:39:58.599 --> 00:40:02.000
<v Speaker 3>to be doing some book events at some local libraries

684
00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:06.400
<v Speaker 3>and local bookstores. I'm doing a virtual kind of workshop

685
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:11.239
<v Speaker 3>about play for Creative Mornings. Are you familiar with that? So?

686
00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:13.960
<v Speaker 3>I think it originally started in New York. I don't

687
00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:16.559
<v Speaker 3>know all of the lore behind Creative Mornings, but it's

688
00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:19.519
<v Speaker 3>like a group of designers started it, I think, where

689
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:22.039
<v Speaker 3>they would get together every Friday morning and just like

690
00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:26.760
<v Speaker 3>chat about design work being creatives. And then it expanded

691
00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:29.559
<v Speaker 3>and there are chapters in different major cities. But then

692
00:40:29.559 --> 00:40:31.840
<v Speaker 3>they do these online things called field trips where you

693
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:34.639
<v Speaker 3>can sign up and you can talk about whatever your

694
00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:38.159
<v Speaker 3>creative interest is. And so I'll be doing a field trip,

695
00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:42.840
<v Speaker 3>which I'm excited about. I'm hoping that when more people

696
00:40:43.079 --> 00:40:45.719
<v Speaker 3>read the book and can understand what I mean when

697
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:49.159
<v Speaker 3>I say prioritize play, that it's not just like, oh, hey,

698
00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:51.880
<v Speaker 3>go make time to go play basketball more, which if

699
00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:56.400
<v Speaker 3>that's your play, do it. But really it's like a

700
00:40:56.519 --> 00:41:01.079
<v Speaker 3>mindset and lifestyle shift, and they're are easy ways to

701
00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:02.679
<v Speaker 3>start to do this in our lives. I just hope

702
00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:04.639
<v Speaker 3>that I get to talk to more people like I

703
00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:07.920
<v Speaker 3>would love to talk to like a corporate design team

704
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:11.480
<v Speaker 3>and be like, hey, I know you all are educated

705
00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:14.360
<v Speaker 3>in the design world, and I don't have any education,

706
00:41:14.480 --> 00:41:17.320
<v Speaker 3>but like, what if we were pinatas? What would you

707
00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:19.239
<v Speaker 3>look like? And what would you be filled with? Which

708
00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:20.679
<v Speaker 3>is one of the questions in the book.

709
00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:23.280
<v Speaker 2>That is one of the questions, and that is the

710
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:27.119
<v Speaker 2>question that I read. I went back and I read,

711
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:31.039
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, who did it? In God's Green Earth?

712
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:35.199
<v Speaker 2>Wrote this down? And it was me and my pinata? Right,

713
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:37.840
<v Speaker 2>so that it's a pinata, what's it's shaped as, and

714
00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:42.480
<v Speaker 2>what's filled with? Check this out. It's the shape of

715
00:41:42.679 --> 00:41:48.280
<v Speaker 2>a crucifix and filled with pomegranates. I'm like, I don't

716
00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:51.159
<v Speaker 2>even remember writing that thing. It's a pretty wild idea,

717
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:55.719
<v Speaker 2>but I'm like it's my handwriting and everything. I'm like

718
00:41:56.119 --> 00:41:59.800
<v Speaker 2>this last week, So it's like a simple thing for me.

719
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:02.440
<v Speaker 2>It reminds me a lot of times, you know, like

720
00:42:02.519 --> 00:42:05.360
<v Speaker 2>when you write something down, your creative ideas, and you

721
00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:07.920
<v Speaker 2>look at it, You're like, it's me, but it's like,

722
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:12.119
<v Speaker 2>I both, I don't even remember thinking of writing that,

723
00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:14.599
<v Speaker 2>And so that one of the pieces about the book

724
00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:17.480
<v Speaker 2>is like kind of like writing that stuff down, messing

725
00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:20.639
<v Speaker 2>messing with the book that I thought it was the

726
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:23.719
<v Speaker 2>Stranger's thing. I was like, I wrote that down, so

727
00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:29.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot of fun. Yeah, So the creative question and

728
00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:30.440
<v Speaker 2>what it's felt I thought that.

729
00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:33.440
<v Speaker 3>Was I'm so glad you did it. Yeah, I feel

730
00:42:33.519 --> 00:42:37.280
<v Speaker 3>like the that's what I was hoping to really put

731
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:39.400
<v Speaker 3>in the book, where like questions like that where it's

732
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:42.400
<v Speaker 3>like you are being forced to be creative, but it's

733
00:42:42.440 --> 00:42:45.119
<v Speaker 3>almost like I'm throwing you off so much with how

734
00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:48.719
<v Speaker 3>weird it is that you you're limiting beliefs about like

735
00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:52.800
<v Speaker 3>who you are don't come in yet, you just automatically answer.

736
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:56.679
<v Speaker 3>And I think like when we can sort of channel

737
00:42:56.760 --> 00:42:59.559
<v Speaker 3>that like authentic version of ourselves, Like I have some

738
00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:03.559
<v Speaker 3>I journal every day and I have some examples like

739
00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:05.760
<v Speaker 3>what you said where I'm reading back and I'm like,

740
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:09.199
<v Speaker 3>where did this idea come from? I've never thought about

741
00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:12.119
<v Speaker 3>that before in my life, but okay, and I'm like

742
00:43:13.039 --> 00:43:15.559
<v Speaker 3>what was I Did I not have my coffee?

743
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:18.000
<v Speaker 2>Like? Was I still speaking? Who is this?

744
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:21.159
<v Speaker 3>And But I think like when we can sort of

745
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:25.280
<v Speaker 3>tap into that, like on we're not filtering our thoughts,

746
00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:27.880
<v Speaker 3>we're just answering, I think like that can help us

747
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:29.119
<v Speaker 3>tap into that creativity.

748
00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:33.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I there was a thought that I I was

749
00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:37.920
<v Speaker 2>thinking about and maybe it was like Detroit that prompted it,

750
00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:39.639
<v Speaker 2>you know. So I think in terms of like when

751
00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:44.840
<v Speaker 2>you talk about our system and creative places. You know,

752
00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:47.719
<v Speaker 2>I come from like working class background and like, and

753
00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:50.960
<v Speaker 2>you know people come from different backgrounds, and art always

754
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:55.000
<v Speaker 2>has like a different station or place. But it's I

755
00:43:55.039 --> 00:43:58.760
<v Speaker 2>think in the context of like general economics and survivability,

756
00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:01.760
<v Speaker 2>Like there's this kind of like really like dark corner

757
00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:06.320
<v Speaker 2>where it's absolutely frivolous and useless and not productive and

758
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:11.639
<v Speaker 2>knowing that that's not the case and like learning over time,

759
00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:14.639
<v Speaker 2>like for working people. The reason why I was thinking

760
00:44:14.679 --> 00:44:16.599
<v Speaker 2>of like Michigan, Detroit and stuff like because I know

761
00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:20.159
<v Speaker 2>there's like you know, I don't live it, but I

762
00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:24.440
<v Speaker 2>know there's a renaissance of like creative activity and space

763
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:27.559
<v Speaker 2>and artists in that area, you know, and it's like

764
00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:32.239
<v Speaker 2>post rollout of you know, factories closing everything that's happened

765
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:36.159
<v Speaker 2>to Detroit, which still stands as a fantastic city but

766
00:44:36.280 --> 00:44:38.920
<v Speaker 2>has gone through all that type of thing. There was

767
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:41.480
<v Speaker 2>such a tight connection in my head of like how

768
00:44:41.599 --> 00:44:49.480
<v Speaker 2>like after this essential and semi collapse here that there

769
00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:53.480
<v Speaker 2>was space. You know, it's political and social aspects to it,

770
00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:56.559
<v Speaker 2>but that there was a space opening up around that.

771
00:44:56.760 --> 00:44:59.360
<v Speaker 2>So it almost seemed like, almost like in my head,

772
00:44:59.519 --> 00:45:02.719
<v Speaker 2>like the place for that to emerge in like almost

773
00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:09.679
<v Speaker 2>like reaction or like of like a new creativity. Is

774
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:11.679
<v Speaker 2>that authentic? Like I mean you're there, and I'm not

775
00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:14.920
<v Speaker 2>trying to overblow like the Detroit thing, but as you're

776
00:45:14.920 --> 00:45:17.280
<v Speaker 2>interacting with people in the space in that city, there

777
00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:20.320
<v Speaker 2>is that that that kind of art renaissance or space

778
00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:22.719
<v Speaker 2>or culture is that? Is that a real thing? And

779
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:23.400
<v Speaker 2>is it growing?

780
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:27.159
<v Speaker 3>I think so I will say that I'm like kind

781
00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:30.039
<v Speaker 3>of a homebody, so I know I'm not like out

782
00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:33.679
<v Speaker 3>and about a lot, but yeah, absolutely, I've been I've

783
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:38.320
<v Speaker 3>been in Detroit since twenty thirteen, so over a decade.

784
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:42.440
<v Speaker 3>And I mean even in that decade plus that I've

785
00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:45.320
<v Speaker 3>been here, it's changed a lot. Definitely. It seems like

786
00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:47.800
<v Speaker 3>that it's such a creative city and it's kind of

787
00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:52.000
<v Speaker 3>like I read Just Kids by Patti Smith and she's

788
00:45:52.039 --> 00:45:54.079
<v Speaker 3>talking about moving to New York and like, you know,

789
00:45:54.119 --> 00:45:56.679
<v Speaker 3>they're living in these warehouses that don't have plumbing and

790
00:45:56.920 --> 00:45:59.320
<v Speaker 3>it's like a supplied closet bathroom is where they get

791
00:45:59.320 --> 00:46:03.079
<v Speaker 3>their water. And it gives me like that sort of

792
00:46:03.199 --> 00:46:05.840
<v Speaker 3>vibe where it's like a very industrial city that is

793
00:46:06.519 --> 00:46:09.960
<v Speaker 3>less industrial than it once was. There's still a lot

794
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:14.199
<v Speaker 3>of like the working class mentality, Like I think we

795
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:16.440
<v Speaker 3>all in the Midwest, we just like love to work

796
00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:18.840
<v Speaker 3>hard and feel good about our hard work, you know.

797
00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:24.239
<v Speaker 3>And and so there's there's space. Detroit is a huge city,

798
00:46:24.360 --> 00:46:27.920
<v Speaker 3>like Land area wise, so there's a lot that is

799
00:46:28.119 --> 00:46:30.599
<v Speaker 3>not populated, and so there's space. Like I was, I

800
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:32.480
<v Speaker 3>would never be able to rent the space that I

801
00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:34.639
<v Speaker 3>rented in Detroit for my book launch party, like in

802
00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:37.840
<v Speaker 3>New York in Brooklyn, like that would be you know,

803
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:41.760
<v Speaker 3>quadruple to ten times the price for me to be

804
00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:44.400
<v Speaker 3>able to do that. And so I think in spaces

805
00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:47.440
<v Speaker 3>like that, artists it's like the natural progression, right, Like

806
00:46:47.599 --> 00:46:49.639
<v Speaker 3>artists come in, We're like, all right, we can utilize

807
00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:53.400
<v Speaker 3>this space. And then eventually that leads to like gentrification

808
00:46:53.559 --> 00:46:58.360
<v Speaker 3>and then everything is Williamsburg. So and that hasn't happened yet,

809
00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:01.679
<v Speaker 3>but there are some neighborhoods Detroit that that's that's starting

810
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:03.679
<v Speaker 3>where it's like, oh, when I first moved here, I

811
00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:06.000
<v Speaker 3>could I could have bought a house in that neighborhood.

812
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:08.679
<v Speaker 3>And now I'm like, no, way, but I think that's

813
00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:14.000
<v Speaker 3>pretty pretty common for cities. But to answer your question, yeah,

814
00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:16.440
<v Speaker 3>there's a great creative energy here and it's it's like

815
00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:18.880
<v Speaker 3>to me, it feels like a down to earth kind

816
00:47:18.920 --> 00:47:22.559
<v Speaker 3>of grounded energy because of the Midwest mindset.

817
00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:25.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so that makes a lot of sense to me.

818
00:47:25.599 --> 00:47:29.880
<v Speaker 2>Now on the show, I like, I like dropping into

819
00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:34.000
<v Speaker 2>like whatever way I can, like the area the folks

820
00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:36.519
<v Speaker 2>are on, or what's the vibe, and sometimes there's these

821
00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:39.280
<v Speaker 2>different pieces that make you think because it's not just

822
00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:43.639
<v Speaker 2>like for you, you obviously like you know, hype gal,

823
00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:48.840
<v Speaker 2>hype gal for all this hype gal for yourself, but

824
00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:54.039
<v Speaker 2>overall too there are stultifying atmospheres and there are like

825
00:47:54.679 --> 00:47:59.199
<v Speaker 2>expansive in creative atmospheres, and neither are perfect. But like

826
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:03.079
<v Speaker 2>you can be situated in the spot where rather than

827
00:48:03.159 --> 00:48:05.199
<v Speaker 2>have to explain each thing you're do and somebody's baking,

828
00:48:05.239 --> 00:48:07.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's cool, Yeah we'll roll with that, and so

829
00:48:07.840 --> 00:48:09.480
<v Speaker 2>like to help you totally.

830
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:12.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think like that's something that is interesting because

831
00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:17.039
<v Speaker 3>I think there are like, for example, I went, I

832
00:48:17.159 --> 00:48:19.119
<v Speaker 3>have friends in Brooklyn, I have friends in Portland. You're

833
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:21.719
<v Speaker 3>you're you know, not too too far from Portland. Closer

834
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:26.239
<v Speaker 3>to Portland than Detroit for sure. Uh, So I can

835
00:48:26.360 --> 00:48:29.599
<v Speaker 3>go to Portland or Brooklyn and I can be like, oh, yeah,

836
00:48:29.599 --> 00:48:31.559
<v Speaker 3>I'm an artist. I do this. I make weird paper

837
00:48:31.639 --> 00:48:34.880
<v Speaker 3>mache shit, and people are like hell yeah. Around here.

838
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:38.119
<v Speaker 3>There are some community like some people I talk to

839
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:40.360
<v Speaker 3>who get it, and then there's some that are like

840
00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:45.199
<v Speaker 3>what because it's it's sort of that again Midwest mindset

841
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:49.000
<v Speaker 3>where it's like, I I don't know what it is about,

842
00:48:49.039 --> 00:48:52.480
<v Speaker 3>like the socialization of people. I grew up in Michigan's

843
00:48:52.519 --> 00:48:54.000
<v Speaker 3>upper peninsulat, so like very.

844
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:55.840
<v Speaker 2>Rural, oh you'll pee.

845
00:48:56.199 --> 00:49:04.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly closer to Wisconsin than Detroit. Yeah, But I

846
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:09.639
<v Speaker 3>think and maybe it's like sort of the the cold

847
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:14.639
<v Speaker 3>weather mindset and the immigrants that came in, Like my family,

848
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:17.559
<v Speaker 3>I'm a fifth generation Yupers, so it's it's quite a

849
00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:21.119
<v Speaker 3>few generations removed since they came to the up but

850
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:24.360
<v Speaker 3>just sort of the like you put your head down,

851
00:49:24.400 --> 00:49:27.440
<v Speaker 3>you work hard, you don't complain sort of mentality, And

852
00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:30.920
<v Speaker 3>so I think growing up around that was a lot

853
00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:34.559
<v Speaker 3>of the reason why I'm like, oh, it's frivolous for

854
00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:37.119
<v Speaker 3>me to want to be an artist, even though it's

855
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:39.119
<v Speaker 3>so core to my being and so there is a

856
00:49:39.159 --> 00:49:41.320
<v Speaker 3>little bit of that mindset. I think in the Midwest,

857
00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:45.320
<v Speaker 3>it's just like not everyone is like a weird creative

858
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:49.280
<v Speaker 3>like they are in Brooklyn or in Portland or in

859
00:49:49.519 --> 00:49:51.800
<v Speaker 3>even La in a different way, you know, like I

860
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:54.840
<v Speaker 3>feel very at home in those other bigger cities that

861
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:57.320
<v Speaker 3>are like freak culture and that I mean that as

862
00:49:57.360 --> 00:50:04.159
<v Speaker 3>a compliment. Why why yep, exactly, But Detroit has some

863
00:50:04.440 --> 00:50:07.800
<v Speaker 3>of that and also the cost of living is very

864
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:10.840
<v Speaker 3>low and that's lovely. And I'm from this area and

865
00:50:11.719 --> 00:50:14.599
<v Speaker 3>my community is here and the access to nature in

866
00:50:14.679 --> 00:50:16.840
<v Speaker 3>the different seasons, like there are a lot of reasons

867
00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:20.920
<v Speaker 3>to love it here. So yeah, ros and cons everywhere, right.

868
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:25.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thanks no, thanks for for for dropping us in there.

869
00:50:25.519 --> 00:50:25.760
<v Speaker 3>I know.

870
00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:30.199
<v Speaker 2>My head, I'm a huge horror film freak, and I

871
00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:32.199
<v Speaker 2>think there was a couple filled in that kind of

872
00:50:32.360 --> 00:50:36.280
<v Speaker 2>like almost like outsoor outdoor liminal space like in Detroit,

873
00:50:36.400 --> 00:50:39.440
<v Speaker 2>and I was like just dropping into that, like love that.

874
00:50:40.800 --> 00:50:43.639
<v Speaker 2>It's like almost like industrial horror, but just like that

875
00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:46.760
<v Speaker 2>creativity of like what's what what is in that space?

876
00:50:47.119 --> 00:50:52.719
<v Speaker 2>What is hidden? What is uh like uh beyond that door?

877
00:50:53.360 --> 00:50:57.199
<v Speaker 2>So oh wow. So we we covered a lot of stuff.

878
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:00.639
<v Speaker 2>Tell me, tell me why did you start a podcast?

879
00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:04.760
<v Speaker 2>And I know you do with the partner there, what

880
00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:07.760
<v Speaker 2>about the podcast? Like, what's the podcast been for you?

881
00:51:08.559 --> 00:51:12.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Our podcast. I kind of pitched it to my

882
00:51:12.440 --> 00:51:16.639
<v Speaker 3>friend Lauren. She's she's a designer uh and has been

883
00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:19.039
<v Speaker 3>for many years and has has primary She worked for

884
00:51:19.119 --> 00:51:21.400
<v Speaker 3>a marketing agency for like a year out of college,

885
00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:24.159
<v Speaker 3>but then has primarily worked for herself. And she's been

886
00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:27.360
<v Speaker 3>a great resource for me in terms of especially when

887
00:51:27.360 --> 00:51:30.760
<v Speaker 3>I was doing hand lettering, I was like, oh, Lauren's

888
00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:35.039
<v Speaker 3>done lettering. I'm learning a lot from this friend. And

889
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:40.320
<v Speaker 3>we always just had really great conversations about philosophy, about creativity,

890
00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:46.000
<v Speaker 3>about yeah, politics, about just all the stuff. Uh. And

891
00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:50.559
<v Speaker 3>many times we would have these hours long conversations and

892
00:51:50.840 --> 00:51:52.800
<v Speaker 3>be like, man, we should have recorded that, Like we

893
00:51:52.880 --> 00:51:56.280
<v Speaker 3>had some good nuggets in there. And as I was

894
00:51:56.360 --> 00:52:00.400
<v Speaker 3>starting to kind of step into this role of artist,

895
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:04.360
<v Speaker 3>of creative, of doing more sort of education and encouragement

896
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:08.559
<v Speaker 3>online talking about prioritizing play, I was like, I think

897
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:12.000
<v Speaker 3>we have an interesting perspective that we can share because

898
00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:14.400
<v Speaker 3>you have all of the you, Lauren have all of

899
00:52:14.480 --> 00:52:18.559
<v Speaker 3>the background of like going to design to art school

900
00:52:18.639 --> 00:52:20.920
<v Speaker 3>and being a designer and working for yourself being a

901
00:52:20.920 --> 00:52:24.559
<v Speaker 3>freelancer for a decade. I am in this transition period

902
00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:27.239
<v Speaker 3>where like I admire everything that you do, but I

903
00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:30.039
<v Speaker 3>haven't been able to fully allow myself to do that,

904
00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:32.400
<v Speaker 3>and so I'm kind of navigating these sort of like

905
00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:36.039
<v Speaker 3>emerging artists or like new questions that she's been living

906
00:52:36.159 --> 00:52:39.719
<v Speaker 3>for a decade. And I was like, instead of just

907
00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:43.119
<v Speaker 3>asking her and only me getting the answers, maybe we

908
00:52:43.239 --> 00:52:47.239
<v Speaker 3>could share this. And then we giggle a lot. And

909
00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:50.360
<v Speaker 3>we're very chaotic in terms of like we're working on

910
00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:53.559
<v Speaker 3>lots of things. We love working with our hands doing projects,

911
00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:56.119
<v Speaker 3>and so we were like, let's do a season and

912
00:52:56.320 --> 00:53:00.519
<v Speaker 3>just like see how it goes. And we really enjoyed it,

913
00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:02.719
<v Speaker 3>and like we talked about earlier, like they're there. You

914
00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:05.920
<v Speaker 3>learn from conversations. I mean, if it's with the same person,

915
00:53:06.159 --> 00:53:09.559
<v Speaker 3>you know, it's just the topics that we talked about,

916
00:53:09.719 --> 00:53:12.519
<v Speaker 3>the little nuggets of wisdom, even the cringe that like

917
00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:15.519
<v Speaker 3>if I go back and listen to season one episodes

918
00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:19.679
<v Speaker 3>and I'm like, why would I say that? Somebody related

919
00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:23.440
<v Speaker 3>to it, and like I learned, So yeah, that's kind

920
00:53:23.480 --> 00:53:25.360
<v Speaker 3>of where that came from. Just like, let's we have

921
00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:28.559
<v Speaker 3>great conversations about lots of things and we understand how

922
00:53:28.679 --> 00:53:31.840
<v Speaker 3>like we're imperfect, we want to be chaotic, we want

923
00:53:31.880 --> 00:53:33.960
<v Speaker 3>to be creative, and we live these lives that we're

924
00:53:33.960 --> 00:53:36.599
<v Speaker 3>talking about. So yeah, that's where that came from.

925
00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:39.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I like the well, I mean I like the

926
00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:44.079
<v Speaker 2>podcast format, which I see is like in its essence

927
00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:50.480
<v Speaker 2>like populist and people based in accessible, And I think

928
00:53:50.519 --> 00:53:54.119
<v Speaker 2>it was strange like just and working on the podcast

929
00:53:54.199 --> 00:53:56.159
<v Speaker 2>and like watch started developed like as far as like

930
00:53:56.320 --> 00:53:59.920
<v Speaker 2>connecting people like my ideas and like where this came from,

931
00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:03.400
<v Speaker 2>and like just like it was all organized into my head.

932
00:54:03.559 --> 00:54:07.280
<v Speaker 2>So I realized one day I'm a labor organizer by

933
00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:11.480
<v Speaker 2>by trading in my day job. So it was it

934
00:54:11.599 --> 00:54:13.079
<v Speaker 2>was like the type of thing of like you think

935
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:16.480
<v Speaker 2>the word sucks, but like transferability, right, so like you're

936
00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:18.440
<v Speaker 2>talking about like what do you know and like how

937
00:54:18.480 --> 00:54:22.360
<v Speaker 2>it can translate. But I realized like either like habitually

938
00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:24.320
<v Speaker 2>or in a way that was even more exciting to

939
00:54:24.440 --> 00:54:27.639
<v Speaker 2>me that I was like organizing around are Like at

940
00:54:27.679 --> 00:54:29.679
<v Speaker 2>some point I just step back and being like, well,

941
00:54:30.159 --> 00:54:32.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm an organizer by nature and I'm like putting this

942
00:54:32.440 --> 00:54:34.519
<v Speaker 2>here and this here and this here and encountering this

943
00:54:34.719 --> 00:54:36.440
<v Speaker 2>and how do you get to this person? Because I

944
00:54:36.519 --> 00:54:38.400
<v Speaker 2>talked to that person. I saw them at a party

945
00:54:38.440 --> 00:54:40.360
<v Speaker 2>and I didn't know they did photography and I talked

946
00:54:40.360 --> 00:54:43.159
<v Speaker 2>to them, you know, and it was all it all

947
00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:47.239
<v Speaker 2>kind of the like I would develop, Like there was

948
00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:50.880
<v Speaker 2>a conscious development of that, but it was like it

949
00:54:51.039 --> 00:54:53.800
<v Speaker 2>was such a surprise to me that like, oh, I'm

950
00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:57.119
<v Speaker 2>kind of like pulling it together like I would do

951
00:54:57.239 --> 00:55:01.159
<v Speaker 2>with the workers that I that I represent, and I

952
00:55:01.159 --> 00:55:02.519
<v Speaker 2>don't know, it just felt a lot of fun. It

953
00:55:02.559 --> 00:55:05.400
<v Speaker 2>felt more powerful too, because like there was a lot

954
00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:08.320
<v Speaker 2>of ways I interact that it was just like, oh,

955
00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:11.239
<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm doing it and in this way. And the

956
00:55:11.360 --> 00:55:15.119
<v Speaker 2>number one question most people about about my show is like,

957
00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:18.360
<v Speaker 2>how do you like how the hell do you like

958
00:55:18.760 --> 00:55:21.639
<v Speaker 2>find or invite these people? And it's all developed over time,

959
00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:24.679
<v Speaker 2>and it's all makes intuitive sense, you know, like talking

960
00:55:24.800 --> 00:55:27.599
<v Speaker 2>to you and and and in your book, it all

961
00:55:27.639 --> 00:55:29.960
<v Speaker 2>makes intuitive sense to me. But like on the outside,

962
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.880
<v Speaker 2>it's be like how do you talk to like somebody

963
00:55:32.920 --> 00:55:36.800
<v Speaker 2>who does like there's an exotic dancer like in La

964
00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:39.559
<v Speaker 2>and like you know, I got it, and I said,

965
00:55:39.559 --> 00:55:41.840
<v Speaker 2>there's a path. There's a path that led to like

966
00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:44.559
<v Speaker 2>all these expressions. And also and I don't know if

967
00:55:44.559 --> 00:55:48.000
<v Speaker 2>you find like sometimes in your conversations having the first

968
00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:50.800
<v Speaker 2>conversation with somebody who does like this art thing that

969
00:55:50.920 --> 00:55:53.400
<v Speaker 2>you have no frigging clue what it is, Like I like,

970
00:55:53.480 --> 00:55:55.880
<v Speaker 2>for me, like I don't know, like people working with

971
00:55:56.079 --> 00:55:58.519
<v Speaker 2>metal and stuff like that, and be like I want

972
00:55:58.559 --> 00:56:00.559
<v Speaker 2>you on the show, like tell us the stuff and

973
00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:04.599
<v Speaker 2>like what you think about, and it's just really open.

974
00:56:04.679 --> 00:56:07.000
<v Speaker 2>It feels really cool, and that like a curious like

975
00:56:07.239 --> 00:56:10.239
<v Speaker 2>learning learning spread always like to learn, you know, And

976
00:56:10.320 --> 00:56:12.480
<v Speaker 2>the podcast seems to me like a really good spot

977
00:56:12.599 --> 00:56:12.760
<v Speaker 2>for that.

978
00:56:13.400 --> 00:56:16.159
<v Speaker 3>Oh absolutely, And I love what you said about just

979
00:56:16.280 --> 00:56:18.960
<v Speaker 3>like the connections because I think for so long, and

980
00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:23.039
<v Speaker 3>especially when I did my engineering job, like networking was

981
00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:25.880
<v Speaker 3>we talked about networking all the time, and it was

982
00:56:25.960 --> 00:56:27.960
<v Speaker 3>like I would go to these conferences and I would

983
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:31.679
<v Speaker 3>just feel just so like, oh I don't want to

984
00:56:31.719 --> 00:56:34.400
<v Speaker 3>talk to that person. I like just want to go

985
00:56:34.480 --> 00:56:37.480
<v Speaker 3>back to my hotel room, do my talk and go away.

986
00:56:38.239 --> 00:56:42.239
<v Speaker 3>And since I have quit that career and become this

987
00:56:42.679 --> 00:56:46.840
<v Speaker 3>person now fully, I it's like every conversation is an

988
00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:50.360
<v Speaker 3>opportunity for connection. I'm like, you very curious, love to learn,

989
00:56:51.039 --> 00:56:54.440
<v Speaker 3>and when you're not approaching it from the perspective of

990
00:56:54.559 --> 00:56:56.440
<v Speaker 3>like I have to network and like get on good

991
00:56:56.559 --> 00:56:59.320
<v Speaker 3>terms with this person, and instead you're like, what can

992
00:56:59.400 --> 00:57:02.880
<v Speaker 3>I learn about this person? Those connections just naturally happen

993
00:57:02.960 --> 00:57:05.400
<v Speaker 3>and then you know, in five years when I'm thinking

994
00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:08.159
<v Speaker 3>about oh, yeah, like you said, metalsmithing, I don't know

995
00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:11.719
<v Speaker 3>that person. Uh oh, this person does glass work, but

996
00:57:11.800 --> 00:57:13.800
<v Speaker 3>maybe they know somebody who does metal And it's just

997
00:57:13.960 --> 00:57:17.960
<v Speaker 3>like naturally, again, when we're finding the things that light

998
00:57:18.079 --> 00:57:20.679
<v Speaker 3>us up the most, we're curious about them, we're excited,

999
00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:24.400
<v Speaker 3>we're meeting other people with those same values sort of naturally,

1000
00:57:25.039 --> 00:57:28.880
<v Speaker 3>and then that network just naturally expands instead of it

1001
00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:31.880
<v Speaker 3>being like I have to force this connection because this

1002
00:57:32.079 --> 00:57:33.360
<v Speaker 3>is a person I should know.

1003
00:57:34.039 --> 00:57:36.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's the that's there's a piece of that

1004
00:57:36.760 --> 00:57:39.000
<v Speaker 2>like and I totally understand that as well, but it's

1005
00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:42.079
<v Speaker 2>almost like how you go into it. And obviously you

1006
00:57:42.239 --> 00:57:46.400
<v Speaker 2>be thinking about that with intentionality, but like it's like

1007
00:57:46.599 --> 00:57:50.760
<v Speaker 2>for me, it almost always seems like kind of impossible

1008
00:57:51.079 --> 00:57:53.800
<v Speaker 2>to get into things with the framework of it's just

1009
00:57:54.079 --> 00:57:58.119
<v Speaker 2>it's just a it's a transaction. Like if I'm gonna know,

1010
00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:00.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna be like, what's the last book you read

1011
00:58:00.880 --> 00:58:04.519
<v Speaker 2>that blew your mind right? And then for me that's

1012
00:58:04.599 --> 00:58:07.079
<v Speaker 2>gonna that's gonna open up so much stuff, rather like

1013
00:58:07.199 --> 00:58:09.519
<v Speaker 2>did you look at this protocol? And like I know

1014
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:12.480
<v Speaker 2>you're an expert. God bless everybody for like learning what

1015
00:58:12.559 --> 00:58:15.960
<v Speaker 2>they need to learn, but like like in organizing or

1016
00:58:16.039 --> 00:58:19.119
<v Speaker 2>what a network and such, just like I always think

1017
00:58:19.239 --> 00:58:21.400
<v Speaker 2>ultimately it's like to know the human being and like

1018
00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:24.639
<v Speaker 2>how they're approaching it. Even technical knowledge like that's fine,

1019
00:58:24.679 --> 00:58:27.159
<v Speaker 2>tell me technical shit that I need to know as well,

1020
00:58:27.320 --> 00:58:30.880
<v Speaker 2>But there's a humanity I think like that we're talking

1021
00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:34.679
<v Speaker 2>about that's missed when like I need you for this

1022
00:58:35.199 --> 00:58:38.800
<v Speaker 2>and you can't. If I can't make that transfer of

1023
00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:43.400
<v Speaker 2>what you mean to me, it's a failed conversation rather

1024
00:58:43.519 --> 00:58:46.599
<v Speaker 2>than being like I heard your kid plays baseball, is

1025
00:58:47.599 --> 00:58:50.159
<v Speaker 2>like you know, like human wise, like I don't know

1026
00:58:50.280 --> 00:58:52.159
<v Speaker 2>how to I don't know how to open it up

1027
00:58:52.199 --> 00:58:54.920
<v Speaker 2>in those Maybe that's part of it too, I don't

1028
00:58:56.239 --> 00:59:00.360
<v Speaker 2>necessarily like quite know or maybe not deeply interesting in

1029
00:59:00.559 --> 00:59:03.440
<v Speaker 2>just opening up the relationship in that way, you know.

1030
00:59:03.519 --> 00:59:07.880
<v Speaker 3>I yeah, And I think like everyone wants. I truly

1031
00:59:07.960 --> 00:59:11.239
<v Speaker 3>think everyone wants to be seen and understood for who

1032
00:59:11.320 --> 00:59:14.079
<v Speaker 3>they are. And when we're asking people about their personal lives,

1033
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:15.679
<v Speaker 3>what do you like to do, what do you like

1034
00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:17.840
<v Speaker 3>to do for fun? What's the last book you read?

1035
00:59:18.199 --> 00:59:20.159
<v Speaker 3>What are your kids up to this weekend? You know,

1036
00:59:20.400 --> 00:59:23.519
<v Speaker 3>like those those questions make them feel seen as a

1037
00:59:23.599 --> 00:59:26.360
<v Speaker 3>human instead of a cog in this machine. And I

1038
00:59:26.440 --> 00:59:28.880
<v Speaker 3>think that's all we all want.

1039
00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:30.719
<v Speaker 2>And we all get bored with work, like I'm a

1040
00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:33.800
<v Speaker 2>labor Like I love labor, Like I cut my finger,

1041
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:37.039
<v Speaker 2>I bleed the label went on stuff that's not it

1042
00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:40.840
<v Speaker 2>for me, Like it's a huge, massive, massive chunk, and

1043
00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:44.440
<v Speaker 2>I get bored with Like I get bored with things

1044
00:59:44.800 --> 00:59:47.000
<v Speaker 2>like just you know, not that I'm bored with it,

1045
00:59:47.159 --> 00:59:49.360
<v Speaker 2>but like it is not my first entry. It's not

1046
00:59:49.559 --> 00:59:53.320
<v Speaker 2>the first thing, like you know, so as fast as

1047
00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:56.280
<v Speaker 2>I am with like workers and what the experiences will

1048
00:59:56.400 --> 00:59:59.159
<v Speaker 2>work and trying to make it better. Sometimes when you

1049
00:59:59.199 --> 01:00:01.840
<v Speaker 2>have conversations like I want to I want to talk

1050
01:00:01.880 --> 01:00:04.519
<v Speaker 2>about a movie, like I really just want or like

1051
01:00:04.599 --> 01:00:07.360
<v Speaker 2>whatever you know, like opening it up, or like what

1052
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:09.440
<v Speaker 2>people like for art and music? You know, music's in

1053
01:00:09.559 --> 01:00:13.199
<v Speaker 2>art conversation, right, so you know, asking about like what

1054
01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:14.039
<v Speaker 2>what what?

1055
01:00:14.400 --> 01:00:14.559
<v Speaker 3>You know?

1056
01:00:14.679 --> 01:00:19.119
<v Speaker 2>What you really dig on and stuff? So uh so

1057
01:00:19.679 --> 01:00:22.519
<v Speaker 2>uh and everybody. I want to let listeners know, Rachel

1058
01:00:22.559 --> 01:00:25.800
<v Speaker 2>renee is is is your hype gal? As you say,

1059
01:00:26.199 --> 01:00:28.480
<v Speaker 2>how do you all right? So let me ask you

1060
01:00:28.599 --> 01:00:31.800
<v Speaker 2>this question. I know you're hyt gal, and I like

1061
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:35.760
<v Speaker 2>to be a hype gal hype guy for everybody that

1062
01:00:36.039 --> 01:00:40.119
<v Speaker 2>that I know you say it, even for yourself or

1063
01:00:40.199 --> 01:00:44.280
<v Speaker 2>being for yourself. How the heck, heck, how the heck

1064
01:00:44.360 --> 01:00:46.039
<v Speaker 2>you be your own hype person? What do you mean?

1065
01:00:46.360 --> 01:00:46.599
<v Speaker 3>What are you?

1066
01:00:46.719 --> 01:00:47.519
<v Speaker 2>What are you thinking about?

1067
01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:50.199
<v Speaker 3>There's Yeah, there's a chapter in the book about that

1068
01:00:50.320 --> 01:00:55.079
<v Speaker 3>because I think, especially growing up in a small town

1069
01:00:55.440 --> 01:01:02.000
<v Speaker 3>like I, as a little freak artist, I felt deeply misunderstood.

1070
01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:04.280
<v Speaker 3>And I think that's a pretty common feeling that a

1071
01:01:04.320 --> 01:01:06.639
<v Speaker 3>lot of kids feel, whether you're from a rural area

1072
01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:08.519
<v Speaker 3>or not. Right like, we're all just trying to figure

1073
01:01:08.559 --> 01:01:13.559
<v Speaker 3>out who we are. And I think that for so

1074
01:01:13.840 --> 01:01:17.800
<v Speaker 3>long I was looking for permission externally. I was looking

1075
01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:20.639
<v Speaker 3>for someone to say, you're good at art, go to

1076
01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:24.320
<v Speaker 3>art school, you're good at this, do this. Oh I'm

1077
01:01:24.440 --> 01:01:27.960
<v Speaker 3>expecting you to get married, have kids, buy a house,

1078
01:01:28.159 --> 01:01:29.320
<v Speaker 3>settle down forever.

1079
01:01:29.559 --> 01:01:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Do that.

1080
01:01:30.760 --> 01:01:35.199
<v Speaker 3>And so I was not wanting to do those things,

1081
01:01:35.360 --> 01:01:37.679
<v Speaker 3>but I was waiting for someone to say you should

1082
01:01:37.719 --> 01:01:40.119
<v Speaker 3>do this, or like this is what I'm expecting you

1083
01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:42.440
<v Speaker 3>to do, or now you have permission to do this.

1084
01:01:43.320 --> 01:01:46.639
<v Speaker 3>And so I think what I've realized in my own

1085
01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:50.320
<v Speaker 3>journey to getting here is that like we're the only

1086
01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:53.079
<v Speaker 3>ones who can give ourselves permission to live the way

1087
01:01:53.119 --> 01:01:57.199
<v Speaker 3>that we want to, and so we have to hype

1088
01:01:57.239 --> 01:02:01.159
<v Speaker 3>ourselves up for that permission. We have to give ourselves permission.

1089
01:02:01.239 --> 01:02:01.480
<v Speaker 2>First.

1090
01:02:01.880 --> 01:02:04.159
<v Speaker 3>No one is gonna no one is gonna pop into

1091
01:02:04.199 --> 01:02:08.079
<v Speaker 3>your house and say, okay, now you're allowed. You just

1092
01:02:08.239 --> 01:02:11.639
<v Speaker 3>it's not gonna happen. And I don't think anyone thinks,

1093
01:02:11.679 --> 01:02:14.760
<v Speaker 3>of course, like logistically that's actually gonna happen. But it's

1094
01:02:14.840 --> 01:02:17.360
<v Speaker 3>kind of like we're all waiting for the right time.

1095
01:02:17.599 --> 01:02:19.719
<v Speaker 3>I don't I'll wait until i have more money, or

1096
01:02:19.760 --> 01:02:21.639
<v Speaker 3>I'll wait until I have more time, or I'll wait

1097
01:02:21.719 --> 01:02:24.360
<v Speaker 3>until my partner makes more money so they can support

1098
01:02:24.440 --> 01:02:27.320
<v Speaker 3>me doing my art. And it just there's never the

1099
01:02:27.360 --> 01:02:31.800
<v Speaker 3>perfect circumstance, and so we have to trust in that

1100
01:02:32.039 --> 01:02:35.719
<v Speaker 3>yearning that like desire for ourselves and give ourselves permission

1101
01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:37.599
<v Speaker 3>to chase it. Maybe you can't quit your job today,

1102
01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:39.679
<v Speaker 3>maybe you never quit your job, but can you do

1103
01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:42.920
<v Speaker 3>one small thing in the direction of that life that

1104
01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:45.480
<v Speaker 3>you're craving. And So when I say be your own

1105
01:02:45.559 --> 01:02:50.519
<v Speaker 3>hype gal or hype pal, it's you gotta give yourself

1106
01:02:50.599 --> 01:02:55.360
<v Speaker 3>permission first, and then recognize that, like, if you're really

1107
01:02:55.400 --> 01:02:58.199
<v Speaker 3>excited about an idea and you're gonna tell somebody about it,

1108
01:02:58.639 --> 01:03:00.840
<v Speaker 3>they're probably not going to get it. Or if they

1109
01:03:00.880 --> 01:03:02.880
<v Speaker 3>get it, they're not going to be as excited as

1110
01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:05.880
<v Speaker 3>you because it's your idea. So maybe you have an

1111
01:03:05.880 --> 01:03:08.280
<v Speaker 3>idea for a painting, or like I have this idea

1112
01:03:08.840 --> 01:03:11.519
<v Speaker 3>for I ask the pinata question. I want to do

1113
01:03:11.960 --> 01:03:15.920
<v Speaker 3>these paper mache like representations of the pinata answers that

1114
01:03:15.960 --> 01:03:20.079
<v Speaker 3>people give me. And the crucifix with pomegranate seeds would

1115
01:03:20.079 --> 01:03:26.159
<v Speaker 3>be an incredible one to make, I think. But in

1116
01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:30.400
<v Speaker 3>explaining a lot of my creative ideas, I'm watching people's

1117
01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:33.679
<v Speaker 3>eyes glaze over and they're like, you know, they want

1118
01:03:33.719 --> 01:03:35.519
<v Speaker 3>to be excited for me, but they don't get it.

1119
01:03:36.320 --> 01:03:38.679
<v Speaker 3>And so I think in the past I would have

1120
01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:42.800
<v Speaker 3>been like, oh, yeah, I probably shouldn't do that because like, oh,

1121
01:03:43.000 --> 01:03:45.400
<v Speaker 3>it didn't make sense to them. And now I'm like,

1122
01:03:45.639 --> 01:03:48.639
<v Speaker 3>I have to make it. People need to see it, yeah,

1123
01:03:48.880 --> 01:03:51.679
<v Speaker 3>first to understand it. And even if they don't understand

1124
01:03:51.719 --> 01:03:54.199
<v Speaker 3>it or like it, I made it because the process

1125
01:03:54.280 --> 01:03:56.960
<v Speaker 3>of making it was important to me. So it's like

1126
01:03:57.400 --> 01:04:01.079
<v Speaker 3>we have to remove that that design, hire for permission

1127
01:04:01.400 --> 01:04:05.119
<v Speaker 3>and expectation that like everyone's going to be as stoked

1128
01:04:05.159 --> 01:04:07.400
<v Speaker 3>as we are for our practices. It's just not going

1129
01:04:07.440 --> 01:04:09.480
<v Speaker 3>to happen. Like, yes, we'll have people that are are

1130
01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:12.360
<v Speaker 3>our hype squad, and I will be one of them.

1131
01:04:12.400 --> 01:04:15.519
<v Speaker 3>I will enthusiastically support when someone's telling me about a project,

1132
01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:17.760
<v Speaker 3>but we got to do it for ourselves.

1133
01:04:18.400 --> 01:04:21.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, thank you, thank you. Yes, it's it's I

1134
01:04:21.039 --> 01:04:25.679
<v Speaker 2>don't know. It's just a really in the times or

1135
01:04:25.800 --> 01:04:29.400
<v Speaker 2>in the spaces where it seems quiet, where you get

1136
01:04:29.559 --> 01:04:32.840
<v Speaker 2>lonely as an artist, no matter what, like those those

1137
01:04:32.960 --> 01:04:38.239
<v Speaker 2>those those spaces there, and and remember in that prioritized

1138
01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:41.599
<v Speaker 2>play is also an audiobook. I heard, yeah he did.

1139
01:04:41.679 --> 01:04:42.480
<v Speaker 2>He did the audio.

1140
01:04:42.880 --> 01:04:47.760
<v Speaker 3>I did the audio. It was so much fun. I

1141
01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:50.920
<v Speaker 3>loved it. There are parts, I mean, like I you

1142
01:04:51.039 --> 01:04:53.480
<v Speaker 3>know you've read the book. I I wrote it very

1143
01:04:53.559 --> 01:04:56.719
<v Speaker 3>much in my voice, and so it made a lot

1144
01:04:56.760 --> 01:04:58.760
<v Speaker 3>of sense for me to read it. And I'm glad

1145
01:04:58.800 --> 01:05:00.840
<v Speaker 3>that I got the opportunity. I don't think that's always

1146
01:05:00.880 --> 01:05:04.280
<v Speaker 3>the case with authors. And I just had a blast.

1147
01:05:04.360 --> 01:05:06.079
<v Speaker 3>I was like, can I do this as a job,

1148
01:05:06.280 --> 01:05:09.199
<v Speaker 3>Like can I can I be reading other people's audio books?

1149
01:05:09.519 --> 01:05:14.079
<v Speaker 3>Because I think my enthusiasm comes across in the recording

1150
01:05:14.280 --> 01:05:16.639
<v Speaker 3>and there are things like I wrote like boo hiss,

1151
01:05:17.440 --> 01:05:20.119
<v Speaker 3>And then the director, the audio director was like, do

1152
01:05:20.159 --> 01:05:22.559
<v Speaker 3>you want to actually like hiss? And I was like, yeah,

1153
01:05:22.599 --> 01:05:24.920
<v Speaker 3>I really, I really do want to actually just hiss

1154
01:05:25.119 --> 01:05:28.280
<v Speaker 3>into the microphone. So it was a blast. I loved it.

1155
01:05:28.480 --> 01:05:35.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's my next iteration. I love. I love audio books.

1156
01:05:35.159 --> 01:05:40.519
<v Speaker 2>That actually became fascinated by my listening stats, Like I checked,

1157
01:05:40.880 --> 01:05:44.199
<v Speaker 2>I've been listening like audio books. It was on Audible

1158
01:05:44.679 --> 01:05:49.559
<v Speaker 2>since like twenty fifteen, and I checked my stats recently,

1159
01:05:50.079 --> 01:05:54.920
<v Speaker 2>so it's like eleven years. But for seven months of

1160
01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:59.360
<v Speaker 2>those eleven years, I was listening to the books, which

1161
01:05:59.400 --> 01:06:02.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, that's a pretty good waking time.

1162
01:06:04.239 --> 01:06:04.480
<v Speaker 3>Book.

1163
01:06:04.639 --> 01:06:09.800
<v Speaker 2>So I always enjoy and a lot of times I'll

1164
01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:14.199
<v Speaker 2>read it into the audio thing because like they you know, uh,

1165
01:06:14.719 --> 01:06:17.519
<v Speaker 2>so I get my next audio book is Rachel Verney

1166
01:06:18.920 --> 01:06:26.679
<v Speaker 2>reads Prioritized Play and hisses I uh, I'm I was excited.

1167
01:06:26.719 --> 01:06:29.519
<v Speaker 2>I think I had seen something there and I saw

1168
01:06:29.519 --> 01:06:31.239
<v Speaker 2>I was like, ah, because I always like, you know,

1169
01:06:31.320 --> 01:06:34.320
<v Speaker 2>it's not always feasible of what have you for you know,

1170
01:06:34.440 --> 01:06:37.280
<v Speaker 2>for them to produce an an audio book and and

1171
01:06:37.400 --> 01:06:40.199
<v Speaker 2>and of course there's an interactivity type of thing, you know,

1172
01:06:40.440 --> 01:06:43.119
<v Speaker 2>like you know, like like for me the tac tile,

1173
01:06:43.320 --> 01:06:45.320
<v Speaker 2>I want to experience both. But for me, the tac

1174
01:06:45.440 --> 01:06:48.400
<v Speaker 2>tile and the fact that like getting in the book

1175
01:06:48.519 --> 01:06:51.239
<v Speaker 2>and writing on it. And I would say too, like

1176
01:06:52.760 --> 01:06:55.880
<v Speaker 2>I found myself like really and I'm saying messing with

1177
01:06:56.039 --> 01:06:59.679
<v Speaker 2>like like a little bit more of like like coloring

1178
01:06:59.800 --> 01:07:02.519
<v Speaker 2>in like your illustrations and stuff like that. Just kind

1179
01:07:02.559 --> 01:07:06.199
<v Speaker 2>of like a lot of like tactile stuff that uh

1180
01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:11.280
<v Speaker 2>was very inviting and which is why every single listener

1181
01:07:11.400 --> 01:07:15.360
<v Speaker 2>is interested in art and interested in in play. You

1182
01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:19.599
<v Speaker 2>really need to get Prioritized play. Rachel Renee, I do

1183
01:07:19.760 --> 01:07:22.079
<v Speaker 2>have a big question, which is the titular name of

1184
01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:25.000
<v Speaker 2>the of the podcast and might be like a bit

1185
01:07:25.159 --> 01:07:29.079
<v Speaker 2>more encompassing and everything we talked about. But I'm asking

1186
01:07:29.159 --> 01:07:31.079
<v Speaker 2>you why is there something rather than nothing?

1187
01:07:31.239 --> 01:07:31.280
<v Speaker 3>Like?

1188
01:07:31.400 --> 01:07:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Why is why is there something rather than nothing? Oh?

1189
01:07:34.960 --> 01:07:40.639
<v Speaker 3>What a great? What a great question? Because we make something,

1190
01:07:40.880 --> 01:07:43.360
<v Speaker 3>we make we can we have the opportunity to make

1191
01:07:43.440 --> 01:07:47.880
<v Speaker 3>something out of every experience rather than allowing ourselves to

1192
01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:50.480
<v Speaker 3>not yeah, experience anything.

1193
01:07:50.880 --> 01:07:53.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh you got it in that short amount of time. Wow,

1194
01:07:53.800 --> 01:07:56.159
<v Speaker 2>that's incredible. That's absolutely incredible.

1195
01:07:56.880 --> 01:07:58.400
<v Speaker 3>I'm at the end.

1196
01:07:58.840 --> 01:08:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Ah sick. I mean six sink is beautiful thing perfectly

1197
01:08:04.119 --> 01:08:07.559
<v Speaker 2>time mic drop, I get it all. It's it's not

1198
01:08:07.639 --> 01:08:10.639
<v Speaker 2>for me. Usually it's like what are we doing with dart?

1199
01:08:10.679 --> 01:08:12.800
<v Speaker 2>We're playing and shooting the ship and talking about stuff.

1200
01:08:12.840 --> 01:08:16.920
<v Speaker 2>That's that's fun. Where do people find all all all

1201
01:08:17.279 --> 01:08:20.960
<v Speaker 2>all your stuff books or podcasts, et cetera.

1202
01:08:21.399 --> 01:08:25.319
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, uh so everything. You can get access to everything

1203
01:08:25.439 --> 01:08:28.039
<v Speaker 3>through my website, which is Rachel Renee dot com and

1204
01:08:28.159 --> 01:08:31.319
<v Speaker 3>it's both names are spelled the non traditional way, so

1205
01:08:31.600 --> 01:08:34.000
<v Speaker 3>it's r a c h a E l r e

1206
01:08:34.239 --> 01:08:37.239
<v Speaker 3>n a e dot com. And my Instagram is the

1207
01:08:37.319 --> 01:08:40.399
<v Speaker 3>same Rachel Renee, where I'm sharing little little clips and

1208
01:08:40.800 --> 01:08:44.520
<v Speaker 3>tips and stuff and just parts about my life, you know,

1209
01:08:44.680 --> 01:08:48.119
<v Speaker 3>living this prioritized play lifestyle. But you can get info

1210
01:08:48.159 --> 01:08:52.600
<v Speaker 3>about the book, about the podcast about my online community

1211
01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:54.840
<v Speaker 3>which is called the Juice Box because I talk about

1212
01:08:54.880 --> 01:08:57.520
<v Speaker 3>living a big, juicy life all around. Yeah, all on

1213
01:08:57.640 --> 01:09:00.319
<v Speaker 3>my website. So yeah, thanks so much.

1214
01:09:01.039 --> 01:09:06.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, Rachel in uh uh in. Even on

1215
01:09:06.560 --> 01:09:09.000
<v Speaker 2>the book with the with the picture of your outfit

1216
01:09:09.159 --> 01:09:11.560
<v Speaker 2>on fleek and everything, just everybody.

1217
01:09:11.239 --> 01:09:13.920
<v Speaker 3>Knows is one of the dresses that I put on

1218
01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:15.159
<v Speaker 3>when I'm trying to feel good.

1219
01:09:15.880 --> 01:09:19.000
<v Speaker 2>You got you got you got it, So everybody I

1220
01:09:19.239 --> 01:09:22.720
<v Speaker 2>I I just truly as you can tell, Rachel, it's

1221
01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:25.920
<v Speaker 2>it's it's great. It's great to talk with you. Thanks

1222
01:09:25.960 --> 01:09:29.720
<v Speaker 2>for putting this book out there. I think, you know,

1223
01:09:29.800 --> 01:09:33.359
<v Speaker 2>if people get out of pen or a pencil or

1224
01:09:33.720 --> 01:09:37.399
<v Speaker 2>or ask, you know, answer funny questions or with their

1225
01:09:37.640 --> 01:09:40.039
<v Speaker 2>friends and stuff, I think like people are just on

1226
01:09:40.199 --> 01:09:42.560
<v Speaker 2>the path of doing something different, even if they just

1227
01:09:42.680 --> 01:09:46.680
<v Speaker 2>want to like like disrupt the norm. I think a

1228
01:09:46.720 --> 01:09:48.520
<v Speaker 2>lot of things we talked about or is like the

1229
01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:52.199
<v Speaker 2>momentum of how you're supposed to live right and everybody

1230
01:09:52.239 --> 01:09:55.880
<v Speaker 2>has that, and what's the job and you're thinking, you think, oh, engineering,

1231
01:09:56.079 --> 01:09:58.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, and pays really well and you're smart and

1232
01:09:58.720 --> 01:10:00.319
<v Speaker 2>you can do it. So if you're smart, can do it.

1233
01:10:00.399 --> 01:10:02.039
<v Speaker 2>Then you think, well that's what I'm supposed to do,

1234
01:10:02.159 --> 01:10:06.640
<v Speaker 2>and then you're like, well I can do it. But

1235
01:10:06.920 --> 01:10:10.760
<v Speaker 2>there's so many other type of things. So yeah, thanks,

1236
01:10:10.920 --> 01:10:14.359
<v Speaker 2>thanks for thanks, thanks for your for your courage in

1237
01:10:14.760 --> 01:10:20.199
<v Speaker 2>in in the book and listeners. I can't recommend it enough.

1238
01:10:20.399 --> 01:10:23.880
<v Speaker 2>And again, as we talked about, there's even an audio

1239
01:10:24.039 --> 01:10:30.880
<v Speaker 2>version if that's your if that's your pleasure, absolutely prioritize play. Rachel,

1240
01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:34.680
<v Speaker 2>thanks for coming on to the podcast, Thanks for your

1241
01:10:34.800 --> 01:10:39.159
<v Speaker 2>podcast in creativity, and you rock. What can I say?

1242
01:10:39.800 --> 01:10:42.399
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much. This was such a lovely conversation.

1243
01:10:42.520 --> 01:10:46.319
<v Speaker 3>Thank you for inviting me and and yeah getting to

1244
01:10:46.720 --> 01:10:50.680
<v Speaker 3>have just a fun conversation about it. It was perfect.

1245
01:10:50.760 --> 01:10:52.720
<v Speaker 2>Thank you. Hell yeah, talk to you soon.

1246
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<v Speaker 3>Okay, we'll do

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01:11:02.079 --> 01:11:04.039
<v Speaker 1>This is something rather than nothing.