Speaker 1: What he's up. Fellow Sikos, I am in Valley coming
at you once more with my certify fan tabus one
and only legendary co host, mister grant Us. The playoffs
from the NBA are one week old, so we're gonna
talk about our biggest takeaways and observations from every single
first round series, none of which will be over by
the time you listen to this, but a few of
them may be tracking towards that direction before we get started. Grant,
how are you overall? And how are you feel about
these playoffs so far?
Speaker 2: How am I'm doing? I'm doing very well overall. Thanks
for asking. I I probably am just gonna repeat myself
if you go back and listen to the one year
ago version of this podcast. But like, aren't the playoffs great?
Like is it just it's just like it's night and day.
It's so much better. Just like we're coming off as
we're recording this, that game three of Nick's pistons, which
was just like god, you know, I feel like Reggie Miller.
It's like, this is what playoff basketball is supposed to be.
Where there's like a scrum, you know, three times a quarter.
It's not just that like, that's that, but that's a
symptom of like what makes it so everybody's trying their
best and like that's just not always the case over
an eighty two game season. So I'm I'm this is great.
Like the first round is a lot, it's overwhelming. I know,
we've talked about this. It's just a lot to like
really have dialed in focus on just the volume of
the games and just the minutia and the tactical stuff.
But like, I would trade, I'd do this all year
as opposed to like some of the lulls and dead
periods get you know, and.
Speaker 1: There's just been there's always a lot of unpredictability. But
just like and then some of the stuff that sucks,
like the Ja Morant hip injury. We'll get into it,
the Jason Tatum rist injury, We'll get into it. Joe Mizzoula,
they're like saying it was fun to see him bleed
when looking at porzingis then.
Speaker 2: Tyler Barker thing, anyone's like, that's on Yler.
Speaker 1: Parker from I think he's from The Ringer like had
an image of Joe Mazzula's press conference and then captioned
it like my blood is a top three liquid in
my mind, opinion was it was. It was ridiculous enough
you knew it was a joke, but it was like
Joe Miszulam might say so, yeah, sure. And even the
nick Pistons ending in game three where people were accusing
like the Pistons scored timekeeper clock keeper or whatever, just like, oh,
they gave them like a free out of bounds plane.
It's well, no, like it's an impartial person like for
a different I think arena or team, like whatever organization
that runs it. And then so that game was just weird,
like Carl Anthony Townsley was like, yo, shout out to
them giving the Pistons another possession that was fire for
your team. Uh. And then even did you see people
complaining that? Which that was my first reaction to that.
Clippers Nuggets was the NBA TV game, and then Grizz
Thunder was the National TV game. Yeah. Turns out the
NBA knew what it was talking about in that scenario
because the Thunder have the greatest playoff come back in history. Yeah.
I think it's been it's been great. It's been overwhelming
and a lot of fun so far. Are we ready
to just dive in here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's get to it.
Speaker 1: We begin with the series. Neither of us has any
emotional attachment to its outcome. The Houston Rockets versus the
Golden State Warriors. We were recording this as they are
knotted up at one game apiece. I have not seen
other than the he has a glute like bruised butt,
basically Jimmy Butler. That's a good thing for jep Stots.
But after he had to leave game two, I know
Brandon Pejemski was dealing with the stomach issue in game
two as well. Do you have you seen anything new
on that, Like do you expect before just getting into
your biggest observations here, do you expect would you be
surprised if Butler's playing in game three?
Speaker 2: I'd be surprised if he wasn't. I but I also
I then would not be surprised if it's pretty clear
early on that he's not moving well and you know,
might be something where he's just not that effective, because
I mean that was a that was a rough fall,
like really very similar to the injury Steph had, you
know towards the end of the regular season, just just
a rough fall like right smack on the tailbone. I
think maybe Butler looked like he kind of got on
one side versus the other. But that's just gonna hurt
like that, you know, that's just you're not gonna get
away from that one for for quite a while. I
don't think so. I bet he'll play, though, don't you
think I.
Speaker 1: Would be shock didn't he? I think Jeff sta said
he suffered a similar injury while with the heat and
then he played. He miss zero games because of it.
And the Warriors aren't really in a position that we're like, yeah,
like you can take it right.
Speaker 2: What are you saving them for?
Speaker 1: Uh? But they have Pat Spencer, so maybe they'll be
all right. What's the what sort of I did like
though that they I think Kerr or Draymond or someone
might have called the what happened reckless, but like everyone,
even Draymond Green and Kerr both made it clears like no,
this like wasn't Aman Thompson's fault, This wasn't done on purpose.
I respected that. Whereas like the reaction to the Ja
Morant lou Dort stuff, where it's like, well, like Jamrant
gets injured all the time on dunks, maybe stop dunking.
But either so, what are you think like this series?
What have you made of it? What are your biggest
takeaways right now?
Speaker 2: I mean, wouldn't you say? I would say that it's
aligned pretty closely with like a lot. That's the other
thing generally, and this will apply to this series, so
I'll just say it. I guess, speaking more specifically, I
don't think there's been a whole lot that has strayed
very far from like what we sort of laid out
before the series in terms of like strengths and weaknesses
and like pressure points and who's going to have the
matter and things like that. Like it's been just a physical,
defensive series. The Rockets are huge and athletic. The Warriors
beat them mostly with experience and guyle. You know, in
the first game, the Rockets half court offense is as
like can be, as clunky as we thought it would be.
Speaker 1: You were right by the way, I have to say.
I asked if you thought they could get away with
playing the two bigs plus Aman Thompson, and the answer
offensively is no.
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's a stat This is just because one of
the things I found myself thinking really in game two,
like as the Rockets we were winning, was you know,
can the Rockets ever play good enough offense? Like but
good enough? I mean, and I'll get to a question
I have for you in a minute. So like they
might win this series with this offense, Like that's possible,
Like especially if Butler is limited or pajem Ski doesn't
play well or is limited. It doesn't seem that's likely.
But like bigger picture, with Shangoon and Aman Thompson on
the floor together, ninety seven point one points per hundred
and the half court, that's forty eighth percentile. They're nineteenth
percentile with those two plus van Fleet, Brooks and Green.
So like you know, that's during the regular season, and
so I think that's been that's born out during this series.
So far. The Warriors have defended like pretty well. I
think tactically they're doing most of the right stuff, which
is not a surprise they've been through a lot of
these series. But the Rockets offense is just it's just
not really capable of being good enough consistently to you know,
to offset if there's any defensive slippage, Like you know,
they may just win because this defense is so physically
overwhelming and they get enough transition shots that it's like, Okay,
that's fine. But the question I wanted to ask you,
like this may jump us ahead, it may not if
you assume the Warriors are healthy ish, who do you
think has the best chance of winning another series out
of these two teams? Because going in like Houston number
two seed looked really good in Game two. The Warriors
have all the all this all the cliche stuff experience
that maybe the best definitely the best player and stuff.
But like, do you think the Rockets have enough offense
to win another series? Or are they more likely to than
the Warriors?
Speaker 1: I guess, especially when we're gonna have to look at
it through the lens of this team plays the winner
of Nuggets Clippers, right, be four or five? My answer
would be.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, this team will play the winner of Timberwolves.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, you know the Timberwolves offense gets pretty gummy.
I feel like that would be a better matchup for them. No,
I just don't I think the Warriors have a better
chance of winning another series because, yeah, they're they're not
as small, They're not, I mean, they're smaller, they're less
athletic than Houston, but they have more buttons to press
on the offensive end, and it's sort of just the
Rockets needed. They did have an above average half court
rating in Game two, but you needed Jalen Green to
go nuclear. And just like Fred van Fleet is in
hell right now with the shooting percentage, he's not like
on his drives, he's just not even shooting right now.
So yeah, I think I don't feel great about it.
But if they're relatively healthy, I think I have to
go with Golden State has the better chance of beating
the Timberwolves or the Lakers.
Speaker 2: So which is I agree? Which is weird because I
don't know what the odds are now for the series,
but you know, being tied one to one and with
the Butler uncertainty and the way the Rockets can just
physically dominate, Like I kind of think it's I picked
the Warriors in this series, and I guess I gotta
stick with that. But like it's at best a coin
flip now, right, Like don't you? I mean, I think
maybe the Rockets should be favored just because of the
Butler stuff. And then we're here sitting here saying like, actually,
I don't think they can win another series, but they're
probably gonna win this one.
Speaker 1: I would normally disagree with you, actually, because I think
that reliable half court offense is so important and if
you don't have that top tier outside in shot creator,
which for as good as Jalen Green can be, he
has never once been out of you know, certain februaries
like his extended stretches, and this is his first time
in the playoffs. I don't think he's gonna have Game two.
Is not close to his normal, is what I'm getting at, right,
So I would normally say no, Like, I'm still pretty comfortable.
I picked the Warriors and seven with you. I'm still
pretty comfortable with that, even with the Butler injury. I
think I would typically stand by that. I just think
the thing that gives me pause is they are I
said this sheet before we started, and you mentioned that
they are big, they're physical. They're also like super fast
and athletic when they want to. I don't know, like
they're another team you remember watching that had that combination
and then when you kind of contrast that against what
they're doing to the Warriors. Let me use Steph as
an example. Statistically, he's had a pretty good series. You
look at the work he has to go through to
get his points. Who is blanketing him? And then it's
look at just what he's defending at the other end.
It's like, oh, there's time on doing Brooks or on
men Thompson. It's yeah, those guys aren't like difficult offensive,
but they're just so like strong and physical. And this
guy's now being put through the ringer on both ends
of the floor essentially. And so because Steph is still
the guy that powers everything, and because we now know
that Jonathan Kaminga is just not it, assuming that he
even sticks inside the rotation. Now, I get where you're
coming from. So there's that uneasy for me. But I
think I guess I'm defaulting towards experience or I still
just think that the Warriors have more offensive versatility even
if Butler's banged up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to get back to something you said,
because if you're if we're looking for it's so early
in the first round still, but one of the this
will become clear as we talk about other series. One
of the things I'm really fixating on, and I think
is defining a lot of the early like back and
forth is like just and the half court. Can you
score in the half court. Like that's that, you know,
it's not new. It's like we always talk to the cliches
of well, the game slows down, and that's why we
have concerns about teams like the Grizzlies in years past,
this year's Rockets. It's like, if your offensive rating is
good because you get offensive rebounds and you run a lot,
that tends to not matter in the playoffs, and just
it really does boil down to like just take the
knixt series, like, well, if Jalen Brunson can get stuff
going in the half court, the Knicks can win. And
if Kat does stuff too, and it's like, well, if
the Rockets can figure out how to score on the
half court, they can win. And when Memphis is looking good,
it's like sometimes it's just because they can score on
the half you know what I mean. Like that feels
like such a such a through line so far that
it is like, you know, zoomed out one of the
things you can look at every series and just ask
the question of like, well, who's going to score best
in the half court, and like, well, there's your favorite,
you know, Like that that that feels like a pretty
steady thing. So far, and maybe that's always been the case,
but it just stands out pretty starkly so far. I mean, so,
as you're watching this series, do you when you I'm
trying to phrase this the right way because I don't
want to draw like a perfect parallel, and I also
don't want to get too far ahead to what we're
to talk about with another series. But this version of
the Rockets, do you think, as currently constructed they will
ever is a long time, but can you see a
future where like this core group is good enough offensively
to be a contender? And what's that look like? What
has to happen?
Speaker 1: Oh, so that I feel like I have a more
definitive answer to that, And I would say the answer
is no if you're looking at this exact core. But
there's the what it looks like is Read Shepherd, Pops, And.
Speaker 2: I'm not that's where you were going.
Speaker 1: Well, but isn't it true? I'm not saying. I mean,
I would imagine if Udoka just like dust Off Reach
Shepherd boy.
Speaker 2: Well, hey, look, if the Warriors are gonna play Pat Spencer,
the Rockets should have to play Read Shepherd. It should
be a rule.
Speaker 1: That's fair. I feel yeah, that should be a rule.
But isn't that it looks like that, or you decided
to make the people call it a consolidation, trade doesn'tcessarily
need to be that, as you decided to go out
and get the next sort of star who wants out
who fits. Don't even say it doesn't even need to
be the timeline, but fits what your biggest hole is,
and it's sort of what's good about the Rockets is
they have assets, they have talent, and I feel like
knowing your weaknesses is important and the problem is the
Magic have just never acted on it properly to address it.
The Rockets just you want this information. We were both
advocates of, no, they don't need to do anything at
the trade deadline. Let's see what they do in the playoffs.
And if you told me that they don't want to
do anything the offseason, isn't conducive to them doing anything seismic.
They want to see what Reed Shepherd has next year.
They're gonna give him a real shot before the trade deadline.
I'd be okay with that too, But I think isn't
that what it would look because who is the player?
Then if we're not talking about Reed Shepherd or talking
about a trade. Is it still feels like Alprin Shangun
would be the closest they come to, Like, well, this
guy's hour are half court everything, Like it's not Van Fleet,
I mean even just looking at his age, and I
still don't. I don't. I don't think I'm ever gonna
trust Jalen Green enough, especially as a passer. And then
the final thing here would be I don't know if
Am Thompson has that like slowed down gear, and maybe
he does, but like it's going to require him to
have more of a perimeter oriented offensive armory, which he
just doesn't right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I asked the question because it's the easy answer
is like, well, they've got the assets to make the
make the Booker trade or whatever your stand in is
for that type of trade. But then I can also
imagine myself if I'm running, if I'm a haf Alstone
and I'm running the Rockets, I'm thinking like, well, Jalen
Green just scored thirty eight in a playoff game and
he's twenty three. Like we all agree he's imperfect, but
that's interesting. Jabari Smith Junior continues, like he just validates
every time I've ever called him an X factor, which
is like a thousand times by now, because like he
he offers just dimensions that you don't get from their
other big guys. And I really do think, you know,
ten more pounds and he can just be a center
like a lot of the time he already is sort
of shaning. Gooon is so fascinating because I view him
and that player type as like kind of definitionally like
limiting a lot of ways to your offense, Like he
can be really good, but also he feels like he
caps it and like Thompson might. You just there's no
scenario where you keep Thompson off the floor, like he
just needs to be a starter forever. But he's he
could He could grow too, You could anyway. The point
is you could talk yourself into several rockets just organically
improving enough to where the answer to the is their
offense ever gonna be good enough to contend? Is just
yes if one or two guys get better and Shepherd
pops or whatever. But like, I don't know, we're probably
getting way too far ahead for a series this timeline one.
Speaker 1: I don't think we actually think a question that's not
asked enough is I think Devin Booker, Kevin Durant are
just to name everyone's zeros in on. But if you're
even looking at the players they already have in place,
or just like the level of play, like how much
better or how big do they need either Read Shepherd
or maybe Cam Whitmore or not, Like what is the
level of player they need for that element of the offense,
because Devin Booker and Kevin Durant they fall. If you
need Read Shepherd to become as good or better than
Devin Booker as an example, it's, oh, we've decided the
Rockets need a star, right, but could they do something
like go get Kobe White or signed Ti Jerome and
that makes you feel a lot better about their playoff
or ceiling within the championship discussion, That's something I'm still
trying to figure out. And I honestly think Jalen Green
and reach Ep are the easy answers. Well, those two
might determine it. You mentioned Shang Gun, and I think
it's fair to call him limiting in certain instances because
a lot of it is just like, well, how much
work can he Like, yes, he can work from the
outside in, but what Jokic can do and what Domasa
Bonis has done a better job of doing over the
past year or two is like, well, they're gonna make
defenses pay from the perimeter or two And does Alpert
and Shangun have that. It's not even the like he
has the ball control and can put the ball on
the deck to attack defenses, but can he like get
jumpers up and hit them enough to make defenses respect him?
And even now with Sabonis, the answer might be no
because Sabonis is up to his volume and his efficiency
and the defense is still kind of just don't care.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's it's interesting. So I look to get
back to the series before we move on. Is there
anything that I kind of went into this saying, like, well,
our priors have mostly been firm. Is there anything on
either side of Rockets Warriors that has been surprising to you,
like any player performance or any of the like dynamics
between the two teams, Because to me, it's just like
this is roughly what I thought we were gonna get.
Speaker 1: I don't think I've been shocked. I've been probably pleasantly
surprised for the most part by Moses Moody's play And
were you We've talked about this a little bit, and
I'm not saying he deserved it, but Jonathan Amenka is
not being in the rotation to open up the series
before the injuries kind of hit. Is that? And did
you see anything from him in game two that made
you think that was the wrong decision.
Speaker 2: I think he had to play in game two, like
that was the time to try it, because just if
your argument, which the Warriors and Kurr have made, is
that he doesn't fit well with Butler, it's like, well,
Butler's out. So if that was the reason, then you
have you sort of have to play him, and they
needed bodies, and in theory he's someone that could create offense.
But then he just goes out and like, I don't know,
it's everybody's really kind of piled on. But he really
did just show you why he hasn't been relied on,
you know, just make a mistake holding the ball, missing
easy passes, like just defensively, like not being able to
stay in front of guys, which is kind of unfathomable
just given his physical tools. So yeah, I I was
not surprised that that's I was hopeful that maybe he
would be motivated and give you good kaminga in game two,
but he just really gave you the opposite. So yeah,
I don't know, it's it's not that interesting to say,
but this this series has gone pretty much as expected,
except for the Warriors losing like two of the three
primary shot creators that they had in the same game.
And like they did fight, they stuck in it like
as well as could have been expected. But that was
just if it's just Steph Man, that's their easy to guard. Like,
it's just that's there's you know, as great as stuff is,
like with Kevon Looney and Gary Payton the second and
and Moody like who refuses to take you know, tough shots,
it's just they don't have nearly enough this Post though, well,
Quentin Post did get some threes up Dan, I mean,
he just he's got a long way to go, you know,
defensively and stuff. I still think he's gonna be a player.
But it's just if Butler has to be like pretty
close to himself, I think for the Warriors to not
just probably lose both of these next couple games, and
it's just this is the story of the team all year.
If it's just Steph, they're easy to beat.
Speaker 1: I think this is the series, not that I feel
like I have the least feel for, because actually feel
like I have a really good hold of it, except
the fact that a lot of the other series, I
feel like my priors have changed, right, I feel they've
been illuminating in some way, and this series, for me,
is not one of them. And I think the other
one is not. The next one up as we move on,
I think it might be. No, it's not Lakers, Timberwolves
is gonna be I pick where It's like, like, I
kind of like the first two games. You kind of
understand what happens. You have a good hold on it,
but it hasn't illuminated anything. The Clippers and Nuggets Grant,
I would argue, was illuminated just a whole bunch about
these two teams. You picked, but didn't you pick? You
picked the Nuggets in six?
Speaker 2: I think I picked, No, get pick Nuggets in seven? Okay,
I think I picked Nuggets. I know that.
Speaker 1: How is that prediction feeling at the moment.
Speaker 2: Well, it always rested on Jokic is so good. I
can't pick against him, like more than any other factor.
And Jokic is still there. And then he triple doubles
and goes nine to fourteen from the field, and the
Nuggets are not in that game. Talking about game was
at Game three, so that may not be enough just
him him being as great as he is. Yeah, we
knew the Clippers. I mean they did it at the
end of the regular season. They looked this good, and
they had a stretch earlier in the year where they
looked this good, and this shouldn't be surprising. The defense
is totally legit. If Kawhi Leonard is this Kawhi Leonard,
especially Game two. I mean nobody is Game two Kawhi Leonard,
but if he's close to that, they're just like, I
don't know what you pick at. They haven't been able
to the Nuggets haven't been able to play Chris dunnoff
the floor, so he gets to run around and cause trouble,
and you know, watching him.
Speaker 1: Play defense counts as a form of cardio, like he's
watching it.
Speaker 2: So so yeah, I think I wouldn't say like I
underrated the Clippers because it was very scared of him.
I just maybe overrated like Jokic good Win series, like
as a as an argument, but yeah, they look so good.
The Clippers do and and if the Nuggets now with
mpga's shoulder thing and Russ, well, I don't know if
we can talk. We need to talk about Russ probably
at some point, but like the Nuggets just don't have
enough other guys like they just the Clippers are deeper,
they're better both ways, Like I don't know what you
do if yogic isn't great and he doesn't get help.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I wanted to note the two things that
I think I actually this series is, I guess not
boggled my mind, but I thought more about it than
I thought I was going to. But the two things
that I think have really stood out here is one
on the Clipper side, like Kawai has just been he
had like a pedestrian Game three. I guess you could
say that's because they were They just like blew the
doors off the Nuggets. But he is grant, he's shooting
sixteen of eighteen in the paint and restricted area for
the series. That's eighty eight point nine percent, and he's
at nine of ten on in the paint twos that
are outside of the restricted area. They've been able to
insulate him a little bit defensively, but like he can
still be that. This is just like, yeah, it's you know,
he can't do this for when you combine playoffs and
regular season. No, he's never gonna be able to do
this for seventy games a year. But like this is
just when when Kawhi is Kawhi, Like there are pockets
of time maybe call him a sixteen game player now
that he can just be one of the three best
players in the world.
Speaker 2: And like we're in we're in one of those pockets
right now, because it's not just like this shot making
is insane, like that he's been that accurate, and it's
like how many of those have been uncontested, Like there
guys are I mean, he's barely getting these over guys fingertips,
which is like a shot he wants. So it's not like, oh,
that's a bad shot, Like Kawai just makes those heavily contested,
tough pull up twos that he just creates out of nothing,
which which is like, man, if you could pick a
singular skill for an offensive player in the playoffs, that
might just be it. He's moving great, like he's he's
and we mean we're never gonna see like ten years ago,
Kawhi defensively because that guy was maybe as good as
a perimeter defender can be. But he I don't I
can't remember when he's looked like this, spry, this, this
like mobile, and so unless unless like there's something acute
that's gonna happen with one of those knees or whatever,
it like, it doesn't feel like to me. It doesn't
feel like past playoff runs where it's like, man, he's
still getting it done, but he's not moving great and
you're just waiting for the nice horness thing to happen.
It just like, he just looks better than he's looked
in a really long time.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's a potential But you just made
me think of this, that that's a potential benefit of
the direction they took this roster, which just that his
defensive workload is so much lighter right overall, Like even
if you're looking at throughout the regular season, that is
it less likely for something to happen then because you're
and even like his offensive role is not like it
can be cumbersome at points, but like they've just like
look at how they ran their offense for most of
the regular season, which he did miss a good portion
of it. So we've all talked about like, oh, maybe
it's he he needs to be load managed, but it's
more about in game load management than it is about
actually giving him rest off the floor.
Speaker 2: Well, and even in this series, there's long stretches where
Kauhi is like not super involved because Harden's like third
I think in touch time behind Brunson and Kate in
the playoffs. So Harden's still doing hard and stuff. And
Harden looks pretty freaking good too, So Kawai can just
like take three minutes off if the Clippers need him
to and be on the floor and like have all
the gravity impacts and all this other stuff that he
does just by being out there. But yeah, the Clippers
are This was a team like that just made no
sense to me before the season, and now it all
like it all looks like pretty well thought out. Like
the way they're constructed makes sense specifically for what you're
talking about, which is like maximizing these little chunks of
time where Kawhi might be able to just be the
best player in the world or something close to it.
Speaker 1: And the other thing with them, I think of each
a zoo botch has done a good job. I feel
like making Jokic second guess about like going in to
the paint. Yeah, it feels like he's settling for more
of like those in between jumpers than maybe he even
normally would. But the thing that I think Tylo did
a great job of is you're pulling Zoo earlier so
that he gets more minutes on the floor without yokicch
and the Clippers have so far destroyed the Nuggets during
that time. There are plus eleven and twelve minutes when
Zoo plays without Yoke, and that's a fifty eight point
seven net rating. It's like, again, small pocket of time.
They have a twenty like Peyton Watson's been pretty damaging
this series. They have a twenty nine point five net
rating when Zoo plays with Watson on the floor, and
at twenty three and a half net rating specifically when
if the Nuggets aren't going small like DeAndre Jordan and
Zoo have played ten minutes without Yoker on the court
this series, and so I think that's a smart adjustment
by Tylo, and it gives you just an advantage during
these times when Yokic isn't the court where you're always
gonna theoretically have an advantage, but it feels like you're
optimizing it and it sort of leads me into my
question was just like, what is the button that Denver
pushes here? Because is there even in one you can
tell talk about the Russ stuff, the MPGA injury, which
all right, I get it from the shooting perspective when
you're looking at a shoulder, but his defense has been
dog shit. Yeah, and then Christian Brown has been bad,
Peyton Watson has been bad. I think Jamal Murray has
been buying large fine yo kic. I saw that isn't
there doesn't this feel cyclical? Everyone? Oh, Yokich needs to
be more aggressive, And I'm in my head, I'm like, yeah,
he could take like forty shots a game if he
wanted to, and he'd be hyper efficient. I just don't
know if that's gonna make I'm at the point where
I don't know what can the Nuggets do to make
a difference in this series.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's well, there isn't like some guy deeper in
the rotation that, oh if we just play him more
or if he does that, like.
Speaker 1: You don't pick it is on the roster.
Speaker 2: R Well, I maybe this is a good time to
talk about Well, my answer to your question is, I
don't see it. I think it's to play better button.
It's like Murray has a has a good Murray game.
The Nuggets kind of get loose in the two man
Jokich Murray game, and they the Clippers have guarded that
like as well as you can really, like you know,
Russ being on the floor makes that easy. But like
I just it needs to be the principles because like
I don't think I don't think Porter's got it and
he's hurt, so some excuse there, but he just you know,
he just isn't someone I would count on. Like he's
not gonna give you he's not gonna win him a
game by going for forty. Like I don't, I don't
see that happening. Watch him, watch him do it. But
it's there's no there's no trick. It's just that That's
why this was always like a scary series because I
was just relying on Jokic being great and figuring everything out,
and the Clippers I think are maybe a little too
good and balanced to be figured out like consistently. The Russ.
We gotta talk about Russ a little bit because like
so it was Game one, he hits the three to
tie it. Uh, he knocks the ball out on the
Clippers last you know chance. But prior to that, there
were like six we haven't talked about this, everybody else has.
They were like six different times, different times where Russ
like tried to lose the Nuggets the game, just like
with insane drives at the wrong time.
Speaker 1: Kofe on what he said on Blue Cup where Russell
Westbrook is a living embodiment of the question mark box
Mario Kart.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well it's that what's the worst thing you get,
and you get at least something good? Usually like the
worst thing, the lamest thing is what like the banana peel.
Speaker 1: I mean, like I always found the like the fake
question mark boxes. Okay, maybe he a fake question mark box,
the upside down question mark because it looks like something
good but then you crash into it and you explode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like the we can we gotta workshop this.
There's something here. But just like he he he made
impact plays, especially in game one, game two, like it
just and then game three he gets hurt or he
has the foot thing and doesn't play the second half.
But there's so many possessions where he's the guy in
the corner that Jokic because he's Jokic has to pass
to because he's wide open and he just like can't
not make that pass. You have to and the Clippers
have to just be every time Russ takes a wide
open three, they're like, fantastic, we great possession, fellas, Like
we did it. Like because even if he shoots forty
percent on wide open threes, which you just couldn't get
that stat. You couldn't get away from that stat on
all the broadcasts, Like that's still a win because he's
still gonna do ten ridiculous like over aggressive things. He's
gonna take bad shots. I just he's gonna make defensive mistakes.
Like the bottom line of it for me is like
he's way, way too important to Denver, and that's kind
of why Denver is in trouble, Like he matters a
lot and he really could just lose you games, and
like they don't have a great alternative, you know.
Speaker 1: I don't you said the play better button, And there's
I think there's some evidence that's that's true because Denver
has a fifty one to eight effective field goal percentage
on wide open jumpers in this series, and you have
to credit the Clippers just for like Chris Dunn I said,
I wasn't kidding, like you watch him, he's so for
Netek on that end, But they shot fifty six point six.
They had an effect field grade of fifty six point
six on wide open jumpers during the regular season. You'll
get his shot quality has dropped precipitously when you look
at the numbers. Again I mentioned I think Zoo has
actually been a part of that. So there is a
little bit of the play beetter button. And I don't
want to overreact too much to Game three because we
like this happened with Minnesota a little bit last year
where it looked like, yep, oh, Denver's totally fucked in
that series goes not only as it go to seven,
but it looked like they were gonna win Game seven
pretty handedly at one point. I just don't I haven't
seen a lot of evidence. I guess if you just
point back to the two games like they were Kawhi
has this nuclear game in game two and like the
Nuggets were still in a position to win it. So
there is like still that in the back of my head.
But this team just looks is it a stretch? They
just look defeated, And maybe it's they're banged up to
the point and defeated, but I don't think I've ever
seen And part of this is, yeah, there was like
a bleed, a slower bleed of talent and optionality here,
like some of the younger guys were supposed to be
able to pick up the slack, and it's Christian Brown
did a lot during the regular season not doing it
right now. Russell Westbrook can help you in these moments.
But it's the other Mario Card analog would be. You
know when you get the banana peels, it's like, oh,
got something good, but you throw it forward and then
you hit the banana peel.
Speaker 2: And out there you go. That's us, that's Russ.
Speaker 1: So I don't I don't feel great about them in
this series. I had the did I pick the Clippers
in five? What did I pick the Clippers in six?
I might have picked them in five. I didn't feel
great about that after Game one actually, even though the
like the way that it went, But I this series
is tough. It just feels like this is sort of
a pivot point, like an inflection point. For the Nuggets
and it's it's not good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't have a lot to add
to that. This is still I think this is still well,
there's a couple other ones. This is up there for
the most interesting series so far, just if only because
of the Kauwhi emergence.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that's just terrifying. And like James Harden,
we're not talking about James Harden not doing enough in
the playoffs. What's that? Right?
Speaker 2: Where are we?
Speaker 1: Well? Boy? Our next series? This has been for anyone
who's been paying attention to Nick Pistons, has been has
been quite the the journey. What are your thoughts on
this one?
Speaker 2: Well, they've changed, they changed quite a bit. Uh, based
on games three. What I was going to ask you, Well,
I have two questions actually, but my main thought, and
I guess I can form it into a question at
the end of game two, did you find yourself thinking
like and maybe you think this all the time, but
I found myself and I wondered if you did thinking like,
do the Knicks just not have enough offensive creativity, like
tactically or like personnel wise, yes to really make a difference?
Speaker 1: Yes? Right?
Speaker 2: And then Game three Cat gets involved, Like Brunson still
pounds the ball out, but you get twenty plus from
I think did Og and Bridges both have twenty or
they had they had like oh, I was like fairly
well rounded. I mean, like the look of it was
similar because Brunson's just got the ball forever, but like
there was enough supplementary scoring that I wanted to walk
that back a little bit. But that was like my
main takeaway through the first two games. And I don't
know if it's wise to just dump it after game three,
because you know, some of the symptoms were still there.
But but I your that's that's your take is that
like they just it can't just be brunts and and
it can't just be this uninventive.
Speaker 1: I think it's take we shared coming out of the
offseason when we still haven't seen this. But you cannot
surrender control of seven first round picks and then still
not have a clear cut second advantage creator.
Speaker 2: I love that term. I love advantage creator as a
term because that that that covers a lot of ground.
Speaker 1: And however you want to branch it out, like it's
it's not just being able to generate your own shot,
it's just putting defenses in rotation, setting up plays for
other others. You've seen players like mchal Bridges, even Josh
hard O g A Andobi Towns pain Camera Payne do
it in small board even sometimes extended drips and drabs.
They just don't have that guy. So I'm pretty this
is one of the things I probably would always defend
Jalen Brunton. I saw a lot of he's the hardest
player to watch in the NBA, and that just feels
like maybe my knicks goggles are on there. I think
it's there's Nick Chan who can't agree. Like the stuff
he does is egregious, even off the balls sometimes, but
like that's part of his value is being able to
draw those calls. But I don't find him to be
the most unwatchable player in the league. What I will
push back against even more aggressively is, yes, he's been
part of the problem, and I saw people clipping plays
of like, well, he had Towns open here and didn't
pass it. There's a reason that his crunch time workload
was one of the highest over the last three decades
this past season, and it's not because he can't play differently.
We saw him play differently in Dallas. It's because the
Knicks aren't built to play him differently. And I'm not
gonna sit here and defend Tom Thibodeau. Do I think
he's the right coach for this team? No? Am I
a Tom Thibodau apologist. I don't think I've ever once
really been a Tom Thibodeau apologist. But what else there
adjustments that he could make? And if they lose this series,
I think he will share a ton of blame. There
is nothing that he can do to make them measure
up to Boston or Cleveland or some of these maybe
these other teams in the West. And I think that's
I've seen as someone in Blue Sky was getting annoyed
with me saying I was partic acting Tom Thibodeau. Whereas
like if Kenny Atkinson was the coach of this team,
here's two points on that. One, Kenny Akinson is the
coach of another team, So you don't get to say,
what if we had a coach who's already coaching another team. Two,
I would push back that you give Kenny Atkinson this
he's working with what two? Three good above average advantage
creators When you look at what Evan Mobley's done this
year in Cleveland. The Knicks don't have that. You don't
get to say, yes, they got Karl Anthony Towns more involved.
One of my quibbles would be because we're married, because
the Knicks are married to Josh Hart, still not enough
one to five pick and rolls. And even when you
got Tobias Harrison foul trouble, you still didn't go to
the one five pick and roll when you move Jalen
during back to Towns. So there's room, there's room, there's
adjustments that Tims Cannon should make. But this has been
the Karl Anthony Towns motif throughout his entire career is that, yes,
you can blame some of it on the coaching, some
of it on the primary ball handler like Jalen bruns In.
He fades, and that's fine. He's still a fantastic player,
but he is not even when you look at these
gaudy offensive numbers, he's not someone that is going to
drive advantage creation for you game in and game out
over the course of a little like, never mind a
regular season, an entire postseason campaign. That has never been
McHale Bridges's game on the ball at least, he's always
going to like he got some better like on ball,
looks at the rim in Game three, those things coming go,
like if he's on the ball, he's gonna look to
Snake's green, He's gonna pull up like that's what he
looks to do. He can't do it at the level
that Brunson can, and so I do get annoyed sometimes
when it feels like Brunson is taking on too much
or not moving the ball around enough. He is the
only player on this the Knicks. His teammates ranked in
the fourth percentileed half court shock creation this year. That's like, Yeah,
that's shitty.
Speaker 2: That that says it right there. That's that's the situation.
Speaker 1: Basically, It's not because Brunton can't play in an environment
that where you have better half court creators. It's that
the Knicks they identified, they assigned. It's not even the
by the way, it's not even the Towns trade. And
I'm not even laying this that honestly, it's the fault
of the front office because you assigned X amount of
value to acquiring McHale Bridges. You don't get to give
up that much pick equity and then turn around and say,
look for all Julius Randall's flaws during the regular season,
he's a facsimile of that advantage creator. We kind of
even saw moments for the Timberwolves in Game two where
he was that. I still he wasn't the answer, So
I don't want to get hung up on that. But
you gave up all that pick equity, plus your second
offensive option and the separate trade without getting a clear cut,
above average, reliable advantage creator in there. That is the
cardinal sin of the front office. And that is the
biggest flaw of this team. And until they fix it,
this is all they're gonna be. Like, this is it.
And I still think they could make no adjustments and
they might still beat the Pistons, who we do we
need to talk about a little bit. They've been like
they've been fun as hell to watch like that is
the fatal flaw of this team. And until they fix it,
and I don't know if they can when you look
at their assets and their their cap situation, like it's
not it's not just a Tom Timbodau might be a problem.
And here's why I'll close it. He might be a problem,
he is not the problem.
Speaker 2: Do you two questions one and the second one will
get us back to the Pistons a little bit. One
do you do you do? You would? You say it's
fair though, to argue that OG kind of emerging as
a much more like high usage creator during Brunson's injury
at least like hints at the possibility that, like maybe
the personnel is here to play differently and it is
really just TIBs or it is Brunson that wants to
play a certain way. Now, Like that feels like a
data point that runs against what you're saying. I think
I generally agree with you because like, but like it
does feel to me like with this group, you should
be able to have more off ball movement, have a
more dynamic egalitarian approach, like because it's not like Brunson
doesn't have off ball value. You know, it's not like
we have to put him on the ball because he
just stands around or he can't shoot, guys won't guard him.
Like it feels like I think broadly, you're right. I
think there's like some toggling. You could move the sliders
just a little bit to where like OG creates a
little bit against certain matchups, or like there's just more dynamism.
And again we're like talking about a team that had
a great offense during the regular season. The bottom line
is the offense is good. But like I feel like
there's just there's some money left on the table, like tactically,
I don't know, maybe and og being like, oh my god,
look at all this career, look at the scoring load
he's should like but it feels like a sign.
Speaker 1: Maybe, Yeah, I think you're right that there's definitely money
left on the table if you were to change the coach.
But what is like the ceiling of that, because if
like you know, you're the game three stretch where uh
Brunton and cat both weren't on the floor and they
couldn't even get the he wasn't gonna catch it even
if they got it to him, but like they couldn't
get the ball to a wide open like this team
just og Anoby might have increased his scoring, the depth
of his scoring arsenal, he's not like a positive playmaker.
And it's like Josh Hart. He has some large rible
playmaking to him, but defenses don't care what he's doing
because like his range, Yeah, with Michal Bridges, it's like
he does a little bit of everything and like enough
of basically not enough of basically nothing. But you see
what I'm getting at there. Yeah, So I think the
fact that they needed campaign to win Game one is
kind of just like a microcosm of just is that
really your second and it like it's on any given
night it could be someone else, But that's not a
role in the playoffs that it's Oh, it could be
someone else as maybe your number two scoring option. That's cool,
But in terms of creating advantages for others, there's nobody
else on this team that consistently does that. Like even
like the live dribble stuff with Towns, like it's cool
to see him be aggressive and even with oj Anobi,
but like you look at Ojiananobe's handle and like that,
like there's gonna be a cap and what he could
do as a playmaker and even maybe as a scorer,
and then Towns is just he's not like the best
live dribble playmaker. He's gonna do more of his damage
like operating in standstills from there. So my point is
to say that they're a bad team or that they
couldn't be better with a different coach. I just what
is the pathway aside from making a major change to
the personnel that they might not be able to do.
Like it's not even about Boston or Cleveland for me.
You put them against the Pacers in a series, and
I'm not gonna pick it to win.
Speaker 2: Okay, I want to come back to what you're to
that point, but at first I want and you could
say this, it still remind me. I have one question
for you that we should probably close this discussion of
this series with. You could do this with any series usually,
but there's a pretty easy pathway to this being three
to oh Pistons right now, like game one, Like the
Pistons fall apart right give up at what were they up?
Twenty one, give up a twenty one oh run and
just lose a quarter and lose the game after probably
winning the first three, they do win game two, Game three,
Like I know, Hardaway was like seven to twelve from
three like he he probably, but you're gonna get one
of those from Hardaway in a series.
Speaker 1: By the way, it's never It's not like MALIEK. Beasley
had an off game, man, That's what I'm saying. Going off.
At the same time, Beasley was.
Speaker 2: Two for ten from three and like some of those
were good looks, like Beasley hits a couple of those.
It's and and the Pistons wheels don't fall if it's
three to zero like this. You know, sometimes that's like
a fool's errand to look at a series that way,
because like you know, the Knicks have the experience and
and it's just much easier to imagine the Pistons, you know,
looking a little green and falling apart, and the more
experienced Knicks just winning that game one and that's what happens.
But like and then Beasley, I don't know if I'm
an account on someone to make open threes. There's the
list is real short, and Beasley's on it, and he
didn't in game three. So I think this is that's
all a roundabout way of saying, like the Pistons are
in this series like from a from a like competitive standpoint,
clearly from like a we're here to be chippy standpoint,
like they're very much like they understand. I think the
Pistons view this series as like we should be winning it.
And and I think that's partly like just youth and
whatever and their whole culture, but like it's also because
like Kate, Cunningham is a real problem, Like it is
hard to make things hard for him. The Knicks have
done a pretty good job of it. But like I'm
coming away from this series even though it's been uneven
for him in some facets, like I think he's I'm
ready to admit like I have underrated his assent because
like he on both ends has had moments where it's
like he looks like the guy and I knows fans
are like, yeah, where have you been? But I always
withhold judgment until we see playoff stuff. And he's shown
enough as like a creator against the defense designed to
stop him, and as like a real defensive competitor against
like physicality and tough matchups like he and you just
add to that, you add just a bunch of good
wings that can defend like Ron Holland was frigging here
for it in Game three, like he's.
Speaker 1: Gonna give me a heart attack at some point in
the playoffs.
Speaker 2: He's a mess, but like, man is he out there
to fight? And and Thompson's same thing. I just the
Pistons are pretty real like and this team, well, maybe
I'll just add unless you have something to add to that.
I want to ask you before we leave this series.
You get to have pick one Detroit's current roster, contract statuses, finances,
picks and the Knicks same thing. And you're just trying
to be the best team you can be next year
in the year after. It's a two year window, so
we're not going to be like, well the Pistons, roo's
you know, it's gonna be a five year thing. It's
just you have their resources and talent. You're trying to
win in twenty five, twenty six and twenty six twenty
seven or the Knicks. Which which are you taking?
Speaker 1: I still lean Knicks, but it's closer than it should
be because it's not like Detroit has a bunch of
extra first round picks aside from the room they could
throw and unless and like if part of the appeals,
if they they're not going to get a major free agent,
and so it's all right, well, what is the trade
that because we're still kind of waiting on Jade and
ivy Ron Hollin's not a finished product? Do you have
to move a sar Thompson to get that next guy?
But it's because of Kaid, which to add the only
two things I would add to what you would, because
I did have a question to ask you. But the
thing about Kid too, and I think this helped, Like
the Dennis Shrewder trade is kind of proven to be.
Speaker 2: Like shrew Like has been so important to them. He's
made so many big shots.
Speaker 1: His defense too, like just like the Lake, he gets
his body low and like it's put like the Knicks
no team, like the Pisons are allowing the smallest share
of jumpers to come wide open in this series as
anyone in the playoffs. The Knicks are not shooting well
on those looks either, but like to allow only fourteen
point two percent of the Nick jumpers to be wide open,
big deal. Like they're just physical and they can make
the closeouts. But with Shrewder what they were also able
to do. And I think this actually speaks to yeh Shrewder.
But also Kid is like towards the end of the
game or they were just stretches where it's like they're
putting Kate away from the action because they don't want
if it's og on him, they don't. They don't really
mkel Bridges did a better job on Kid. I don't
think the Pistons respect Mchael Bridges as a defender because
I don't see this as much like what it's og
An Andobe. It's we would rather take og An Andobi
out of the play and like leave Kid is sort
of like a decoy or a spacer, and then we'll
have Dennis Shrewder operate. It doesn't always end well, but
I'm like, that's like really smart because you look at
the way that this Knicks defense could break down. But
what I wanted to ask you about. I know they're
dealing with the Isaiah Stewart injury, but would you have
gone they like they immediately pivoted back to Jayalen duran
on Kat and the Knicks didn't really make them pay
for it a ton, But like can they I understand
not wanting to risk getting Kid in foul trouble too,
but like if it comes to Asar Thompson or just
again dusting off Simoni Fontio or something, why not continue
to go when Josh Hart is gonna play? Wouldn't you
rather see them continue to put the small on towns
in that situation? Or No?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would because I forget who had it. I
saw it on Blue Sky yesterday. I think there's maybe
you've seen it. There's a stat that like when.
Speaker 1: The Knicks are like spread Katt at the athletic the
Nix have won like thirty percent of their games when
Kat is primarily defended by a non.
Speaker 2: Big right and it's just like, okay, so just defend
him with a guard or a wing and like if
he wants to post up, and that's how the Knicks,
like you know, structure their offense great or if you
you know, that just seems to work. So I yeah,
I think, and then you can And that's the thing.
There's the interplay is so obvious. It's like, well, if
the Knicks would just take Heart off the floor and
not allow Duran to guard him.
Speaker 1: And then you could run one five picking rolls. It
doesn't that doesn't seem like something Tom Thibodau wants to do.
And I swear to God if he ever plays Mitchell,
Robinson and Josh Hart together again without Towns or Brunton
on the court. Yeah, I mean, by the way, if
you're not the five swists the final thing, if you're
not gonna lean on the Towns, Jalen Brunson pick and roll,
then give even more minutes to the dual big lineup
to help your defense, because then Mitchell Robinson has to
be Like I'd rather see Mitchell Robinson screening instead of
Towns than Josh Hart screening instead of Towns.
Speaker 2: Less less to bit maybe because you maybe think of
it as your fault. I really like Josh Hart, and
I think there's a great chance that in this series
he has a game that where his hustle and offensive
rebounding and like runouts and maybe he'll make a couple threes,
like contribute to a win that like maybe the Knicks
don't get without him. But when you think this ties
all the way back to the through line thing of
like what matters in the playoffs, Josh Hart's two best
things are offensive rebounding and transition scoring, and like we
just keep seeing over and over that that stuff dries
up in the playoffs. So like if you're not gonna
get that from him, and what you need is half
court spacing and and like secondary creation and like matchup
proof guys like he he's not that like that. So
I think more McBride minutes is like the obvious lever
to pull, because that would solve a lot of different things,
I think. But now watch Josh Hart get like fourteen
transition points next game and whatever the.
Speaker 1: Problem is, though, is that I think pretty clearly, if
you had to argue wire to wire so far, I
guess Towns has been the Knicks's best player, like Josh
Hart's very clearly been their second best playmaker.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a I just it's it's a weird thing.
I don't know. This is a great series. I really
hope it goes seven, just because.
Speaker 1: I think this says a lot. We spend a lot
of time in the Knicks flaws like the pistons are
just they're they're finding the weak points and they're pressing
on them. And that's a great job by JB. Bickerstaff.
It's a great job by the players. Like this is
like beatball Paul just coming in, just reaking fucking havoc
in game three. Hell yeah Yeah. Our next series is
Lakers Wolves Grant make make this series makes sense for me.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean this is the one that I sort
of have the least to say about. Weirdly, as we're
recording it, we've only seen two games, and I would say,
among a few other things, like the difference has been
the Wolves made threes in one, and they didn't any
other thing, you know what I mean? Like that, it's
hard to It's hard to really. We could certainly talk
more about it and kind of do some macro stuff,
but like fifteen to twenty six in game one, and
I forget what they were in game two, but there
were a lot of stats going around about it was
the biggest decline in made threes from game one to
gain since some stupidly long ago thing. And the Wolf
scored eighty five points in that second game. Well, what's so?
What's the more interesting angle than like make or miss
league analysis? I mean the small ball stuff and like
the interplay between you know, big Wolves small Lakers is interesting,
even though the Lakers aren't small, it's just they have
one guy who's technically a center and he sucks un
so like they should they sort of are small or
should be. Do you see Jared Vanderbilt has now averaged
more minutes per game than Jackson Hayes.
Speaker 1: Honestly, I think we both could have predicted that.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if I would have picked Vando,
I would have thought, well, Finny Smith and Ruey will
both play thirty three minutes a game or something. But
but yeah, so, and the offensive rating is just through
the cellar with Jackson Hayes on the floor, even though
it's only two games that that's feels real to me.
Speaker 1: I think if you're the Lakers, you probably feel pretty
good that to this point, Lebron, Reeves, Ruey and Dfs
are shooting combined ten of thirty nine. Yeah, from three
twenty five point six percent, and then Reeves and Dfs
specifically they're three of sixteen on wide open threes.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, Luca, Luca's over thirty five percent, and somebody
else maybe Vincent is.
Speaker 1: In thew or something. Three.
Speaker 2: Everybody else just can't hit anything.
Speaker 1: And so you have to I almost feel you feel
pretty good about that. But I've seen a lot of
because the thing I wanted to focus on in the
Wolves is not the thing that everyone else seems to
be focusing on. It was like, look at what Luca
did going after Rudy Gobert, and I'm like, are we
gonna do this again?
Speaker 2: You guys, like you have to.
Speaker 1: The data, Like the individual numbers against Luca are fine,
like he's four of ten and one of four when
going up against Golbert, but this would lend some credit
to the concern the Lakers are verging one point seventy
two points per possession grant when Go Bear like as
a team, when Gobert is defending Luka ancis that is
really that's bad. But here's the thing that is bad.
Defense has not been Minnesota's problem. Yeah, like it hasn't,
And so I'm looking at it more from the offensive
perspective of can you make sure that ann is going
to be more consistent when he's facing like these aggressive Lakers,
like schemes or coverages. And then the other thing for
them is too They did a really good job of
this in game run one is after you grab a board,
go out, get into your offense. Thirty one point two
percent of their possessions after a Lakers miss were in transition.
That dropped a twenty percent in game two. And I
think the variable in game two, of course, is that
nas Reed and Dante DiVincenzo both are guys who won.
Maybe Nasried can help you in like the whole Luka
versus Go Bear thing, do you if you're the Wolves,
you want to concede switching as much? I think that's
worth a discussion having. But isn't it more for you? Like, well,
how do we get this all? Like Julius Randall has
like been fine, has a good game in game two,
and like you still like you don't feel it isn't
the problem the offense still doesn't feel dynamic enough? Or
is it? Should we be focusing on, oh, the Lakers,
like look at what they're doing when go Bear switches
on to Luca.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna read you. And because I built my
dock here just from notes that I try to write, like.
Speaker 1: Hold on, you're you used, like you're not going analog.
Speaker 2: I didn't handwrite these, I typed them in my notes
app and then I copy pasted them into the Google doc.
This after game one, which the Wolves won and shot
the shit out of the ball. Edwards is a very
good player who has a long way to go on offense.
Don't think he makes others better and don't think defenses
really have to scheme all that hard to stop him yet.
And I kind of think we're saying the same thing
because if you're if you're concerned about the Wolves offense,
and like, how does how does this? How do we
get this thing? Like how do we grease the skids
a little bit, like how do we get it going?
It has to start with Edwards And this is like
a common knock on him. You'll hear like he doesn't
The reads he makes when doubled are slow, and he'll
make the easy pass sometimes like the obvious like strong
side corner out of the pick and roll, which most
teams take away now anyway, But he's not doing the
advanced reads. He's not manipulating the defense. It's like you
just kind of load up against him and maybe he's
gonna hit six threes over tough contests and that's why
you lose. But otherwise he's gonna crash in and try
to score over guys because his finishing craft is like
not great despite like a plus athleticism. He can fix
all that in like two or three more years, I'm sure,
but for now, like I think all the issues we
talk about with Minnesota do kind of have to be
traced back to him because he is in the primary
scoring role and like, yeah, go bear being out there
cramps the facing well, get better at throwing lobs and
you know, like, yeah, you're bringing on Jaden McDaniels to
hit a lot of threes, like all right, well hit
him in the pocket, you know, Like there's I feel
like it's fair to put a lot of it on Edwards,
and but we did. The counterpoint is we spent a
lot of this series talking, you know, pre series, talking
about just like the guys around him, like well, how
do you keep calmly on the floor, and like how
do you maximize Randall's secondary creation? And there's that's all
still real. But I think my takeaway so far has
just kind of been Edwards flaws, even though they do
seem like the types of things young players correct, you know,
or or improve upon are like pretty like tightly you know,
tightly connected, closely linked to like why it is that
Minnesota can look terrible on offense one night and great
the next and feel like they are just a make
or miss team, you know what I mean, Like he's
not we talk about advantage creators, like he doesn't consistently
do that, Like for a guy as good as he is,
I think that's an issue.
Speaker 1: And if you're not gonna have that, because I guess
I don't know what to consider Julius Randall and all this,
because he can be an advantage creator, but it's like
you know how it's coming every single time. It's not
dynamic advantage career, and that's.
Speaker 2: Not really in the spirit of what we're talking about
with advantage creator, Like he doesn't compromise the defense consistently,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And that's why sort of like how an arguably Rob
Dillingham is more important than it's not. Arguably Rob Dillingham's
more important Minnesota than Reed Shepherd is to Houston. But
like that's the idea of Rob Dillingham. If you're not
going to have that type of finished product player though
on the roster, you need to surround it. And this
is why I'm like, I get what you're saying about Edwards,
and I agree with everything. I guess. I just don't
know how much blame to assign to him when it's
you know that this is the problem and what you're
waiting on him to develop, and what have you done?
You've actively I loved Evincenzos, So it's like, I don't
know if you've made your spacing worse. But like when
you look at his teammate, like in Catch and Shoot
three point shooting twenty six percentile in Ketch and Shoot
three point shot, making this year and then thirtieth percentile
overall in off ball gravity. I don't know, an interesting
challenge trade over the offseason might be Julius Randall and
Dante DiVincenzo for Karl Anthony Towns, Like maybe that what happens.
So but for like I so I agree with you,
but I almost feel like this falls on the Wolves,
for well, this isn't new and you know that this
did you just bank on him getting better at this? Yeah,
and so I think so I just wonder if we
would feel differently, like if you could remove the early
foul trouble from Nasried and Dante Devincenzo in Game two.
I honestly almost wonder for talking about like a different
series at.
Speaker 2: This sure, yeah, I mean a lot of these are
that way so early on. I'm I know I'm being
hard on Edwards and I keeps which button.
Speaker 1: No, that's fair if you want him to be like
the Wolves view him and their fans as like a
top ten player in the league, like that's you're gonna
pick nits or you're gonna put the microscope over it, right, Like.
Speaker 2: It's sort of his job to excel at being the
offensive like catalyst, and he can do it. It just
hasn't happened often enough. And I think that's part of
the reason the Wolves have been like Jekyll and Hyde
all season. There's other factors for sure, but I think
it's worthwhile to fixate on him, should we? So we
came into this kind of wondering or I think it
was it was it was a talking point, like the
Lakers don't have big man depth. Is that going to
become a problem? And you would have assumed this series
that's where it would show up, right, because we spent
time talking about Gobert nas Reed, like Julius Randall's like
a physical load, like.
Speaker 1: Craft the like what is there aside from the Thunder,
which some people think the Lakers are a good match
for the Thunder. Maybe they're like, is there a worse
matchup in theory than these Wolves for the maybe Houston?
Speaker 2: But exactly my point, exactly my point. You would think
that like this is okay, this will test it, right,
we'll find out if the and it's like so far,
the answer is like the Lakers are just they seem
equipped to play smaller and make it work. And you know,
we need more games in this series. But like if
it's not an issue in this series so far, Like
maybe that's overblown. Maybe they can just play the thing
is like this quote unquote small Lakers can put like
four guys that are six eight two fifty on the floor.
They're you know, close to that, So it's like how
small are they really? But yeah, you know, maybe maybe
that's what it is. Maybe maybe like collective size offsets
the lack of a of a like seven foot or
that you can throw out there.
Speaker 1: Do you So this was one of the series we
differed on. Is I think I had Wolves in six
or seven and you had Lakers in six or seven? Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had Lakers for sure.
Speaker 1: Do you feel differently about this? Not that you need to.
I don't like neither of us really in the business
of changing predictions, But do you feel like this? I
guess this series is maybe the way we've gotten here
is not how I would have where I still I
think I feel a lot better about the Wolves than
I should, is really what I'm getting at.
Speaker 2: Ye, I think that's I guess I wouldn't. I would
still pick the Lakers, And maybe that's partly because like
they just haven't shot it well collectively, and I think
there's a room for a lot of improvement there. I
don't know. This is another one that's like I guess
we said at the outset, I don't have a great
like handle on it beyond the make or missed part
for the Wolves, and I mean I picked I think
I did pick Lakers in seven, So like that implies
the cistant could go either way. I just I'm just
gonna bet on Luca being better than Ant probably.
Speaker 1: Glad we're in agreement that, and I think if the
Timberwolves lose, the focus is gonna come back, like, well,
look at how often Ruby Gobert haad to defend Luca Dancs.
I just do not think that that's even close to them.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so either.
Speaker 1: Our next series, which this has been through two games,
has been like one of my favorite ones to watch
because maybe I like validation and I don't think that
people fully understood how good the Pacers were and we
did Grant. How are you feeling like this one's just
been it's been for Neetic, it's.
Speaker 2: Been for Anetic and another one that so far has
aligned like pretty closely with expectations because Giannis is getting
all he can eat thirty five and fifteen on sixty
five percent shooting and it's not enough.
Speaker 1: And we had one game with Dale Kitchen, Denver basically.
Speaker 2: Kind of yeah, one game with one game without Also,
I think I told you I've made a bold prediction.
He had average fifteen free throw attempts per game, and
I think in game one he shot exactly fifteen. It's like, yeah,
I'm so smart, Uh, because who couldn't Who couldn't see
Giannis like running into everybody on Indiana?
Speaker 1: Could you, by the way, did you see the we
we all like some crowds always still like clock gi
Honest when he's at the free line? Did you see
the fan in Indy that had the clock? Can that
he's moving like.
Speaker 2: Love that guy? Is that the one of the sign
that said Greek time on it?
Speaker 1: And it was like, like that is that's like the
fun ship you basketball?
Speaker 2: You can't tell me that wouldn't bother you? Like the
counting that How could that not just destroy? So I
was I was like, if that were me, I think
I would try to time it. So I shot on
ten every time and it's like, oh wait, that means
they're definitely in my head. If if I do like,
I'm defeated mentally and I'm not even playing in the game.
That's a that's a week I would Yeah, I wouldn't
be able to handle it either.
Speaker 1: But that's why we yell that's the game through microphones
rather than play it.
Speaker 2: That's the only reason.
Speaker 1: That's the only reason I don't they do it like
physical or intelligibility when it comes to basketball.
Speaker 2: Mental frailty is my real whole. This is a macro
question and you can use it to the springboard into
whatever you want here. But it's kind of Bucks focused
because we'll talk about the Pacers more. They deserve it.
To me, it feels like there's a handful of first
round teams so far that feel like they're like end
of the road teams and like we jump ahead to
Memphis maybe, like the Knicks in some ways are like, Okay,
this core is not good enough. It's topped out. To me,
the Bucks are the most obvious. We're getting beat. We
don't have a lot of answers, we don't have a
lot of outs. This group is at the end of
the road. Agree or disagree? Is there another team you'd
add to that? And are the Bucks showing us right?
Now that like this, this group is pretty much done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. I think the only team and we'll
talk about that series a little bit. In Memphis might
be in a similar boat.
Speaker 2: I have a hot take on Memphis, by the way after,
but when we get there.
Speaker 1: I agree with you in the sense that when the
notification came through about the John Horst extension, I was like,
when I saw it, I was at the gym, and
I was like, Oh, the Bucks just fired their executive
in the middle of the playoff series. This is a disaster,
and my mind was geared sect But what had happened
with Memphis?
Speaker 2: And wait, so after you got through that, what was
did you think at all? What was your first thought
as to the why they extended him?
Speaker 1: Well, well, I was just like, oh, this is just
sort of I assumed his contract was up. I didn't
know his contract situation. And then my first reaction was
I really think that this boat's well for Yannis Stang
beyond this season. Oh interesting, because oh go ahead.
Speaker 2: No, I'll give it back to you here. I thought, oh,
they're giving him the security to tear this down and
think of like a five to six year time horizon,
which like but then it's like, well, he's had a
great relationship with the honest and has gotten him to
re up several times, So maybe that's what.
Speaker 1: That was like kind of my second thought. My first
inclation was like, well, people are going to be really
mad about this, and this is gonna be a joke,
and surely it was. But in my head I was
just like, how are they really support Like what has
he done? Okay, the Adrian Griffin and then maybe the
Doc Rivers those are missteps. The Chris Middleton trade doesn't
look great, Like where has John Horst or this front
office fundamentally failed this post championship Giannis window? Is it?
You didn't they never should have gotten rid of Mike Budenholzer?
Is that one of it? Is it? They shouldn't have
made the Damian Lillard trade, which I think most people
kind of understood because they thought they were capped with
through Holliday. And the other thing to remember is that, yeah,
this Bucks team doesn't feel like it's it. Last year's
Bucks team didn't feel like it's it the year like
the previous two playoff campaigns, and then maybe even this
one just because of how long it's gonna take him
to work back into true dame. It's just they've dealt
with there's been major pieces that are injured or just
in Giannis's case, missed, like the entire playoffs. So I
don't have a problem with them doing it. I did
not consider the oh, they're giving him the job security
to tear this down. I just if that was the
reason they did it. I don't think you announce it
in the middle of a playoffs here, Yeah, I think
it's more so we're doing this to distract from us
being down to oh, and we're sending a signal that like,
no this. Maybe they make moves, maybe even Dave Willer
gets traded, but we're gonna try and reorient around Giannis.
Speaker 2: I was definitely prime. I had like primed myself to
think that because because of the question I asked you
before about like the end of the road teams, it
feels like this team's at the end of the road.
So like, of course, the only reason you'd re up
with your top executive is because you want to let
him know, Hey, you don't have to think about tomorrow.
You can think about like ten tomorrow's from now if
you want.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: I kind of set myself up for that.
Speaker 1: But well, I think you could be right. But then
wouldn't that make the timing of when you and share
outing that weird? Like why not wait until you get
bounced or like even do it before the series starts? Oh?
Speaker 2: I remember I was gonna say, do you yes? I
think you're right? Do you think that? Like I'm gonna
lose my thought again? Why can't I keep this thought
in my head?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Do you think that? Milwaukee fans, I'm asking you just
be a voice for the greater you.
Speaker 1: Know, Dabucks band, Dan for Valley here reported for duty.
Speaker 2: Do you think they want like, hey, keep of course
they want like keep you honest. The Luca, the whole
Luca thing taught us that, like just keep our guy
please and retool or like tinker or see what you
can turn I don't know, dame into or whatever? Or
is it or do you think they look at this
and say this is we've just reached the logical endpoint
of a team that went all in several times, won
a championship, still has the superstar, but just can't build
a good enough roster around him, because that's hard to
do over like a decade span like do you do
you or do you think they they just like want
more of this, or they like think you know what
I mean?
Speaker 1: I think they The sense that I would get is
that they're they're not okay with this, but they are
resigned to what you said where it's this is sort
of the natural destination of a team that went all
in one to one, tried to win again for whatever reason,
did not. But they also look at it as I
so if you have to pick like one of the
two extremes, I don't think Bucks fans want them to
tear it down because they understand that, like they're still
not going to have control over most of their draft
picks moving forward. So there's limited value in trading Giannis
aside from if you can get an offer that's attractive enough.
But I also think and I think I would agree,
and I don't know, maybe the Chris Middleton trade changes
that a little bit. I do think there's more juice
to squeeze out of this group. I just but like,
at the same time I'm saying that, I'm like they've
actually done pretty well the past couple of seasons, hitting
on like these minimum signings well person League Beasley then
it's Torrian Prince, then it's Gary Tran Junior. Not saying
either one of them had a terrific series, but I
would think that I think if you pull Bucks fans,
they don't want this to really like, if they had
to pick an extreme, it would be let's figure out
a way to double down on Giannis again, even if
it's imperfect and risky, rather than let's tear it down
and take what is probably the safer Like if you're
the Bucks and you trade Giannis, now they'll be the noise.
Oh you failed, but like it's the safe path, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The harder decision would be do we put more a
future pick on the table. Do we look at it
like just who is the best player we can get
for if you send out Kuzma and pat Content assuming
he takes out his player, like you get.
Speaker 2: A pretty expensive player for that, right right.
Speaker 1: So I think that would be the riskier decision because
you're giving up like what's what little is left of
your future draft equity?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's I think that's fair. Let's we
gotta we gotta like.
Speaker 1: Can we get to our ode of past clos I.
Speaker 2: Was just gonna say, we gotta circle back to this series,
and we need to focus on the team that's been
really good in it, which is the Pacers.
Speaker 1: Which I think is most impressive. It's not like they're
still playing Pacers basketball, but like the Bucks transition even
has not been good, but they kept them out of
transition for a lot of this game, like more than
the Pacers normally are, and it just like sort of
doesn't matter. I think has been huge at both ends.
The Bucks are scoring zero point eighty six points per
possession when he guards Giannis so as a team that
is insane, like insanely bad for Milwaukee, and I think
he's done a lot of good things and pulled him
out of ruts on the offensive end, like his two
way workload, I would argue has been pretty absurd. And
the other note I have is like I still don't
think we fully appreciate and at least twelve NBA players
don't appreciate this because they voted that. By the way,
those framings are always funny those polls. Because it's one
hundred and fifty eight players participated, ninety answered the overrated question,
and tyres Halburton won that category with fourteen percent of
the vote, which is like, all right, so twelve players
think that Tyres Haliburn's underrated, overrated. But what I will
say is he's not even shooting the ball well, not
even inside the arc, like well like fifty percent. He
was a fifty eight percent for the regular season. The
possession battle of just like, he has four turnovers against
twenty four assists.
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, averaging twelve to two. It's like,
what else do you need him to do?
Speaker 1: Well? Grant, only four players have matched at least twenty
four assists with fewer than five turnovers through the first
two games of a playoff series. They are Mike Conley,
Drew Holliday, Steve Nash, and then Chris Paul did it
multiple times because of course he did. Yeah, And just
like I think that Halliburton's been able to like when
you've put like when Brook Lopez has been switched on
to him, or even just any sort of big the
Pacers are averaging what is a number here when one
of the Biggs guards Halliburton one point three to six
points per possession, when Hollie's defended by one of the
Bucks is bigs and I'm including kuzmanianis in that with
Portis and brook Lopez. Yeah, like with Lopez, if you
get all the way to the basket, you might lose
that battle because of who brook Lopez is. But like
the work that Tires Halliburton's been doing from the in
between sprang out like the players around. It seems stupid
to say, like, yeah, like the two best players on
the Pacers have really done their job, but like that's
a huge part of all this, and you've gotten extra
lifts from you look at what Andrew Nemhard has been
able to do, and you look at what Miles Turner
has been able to do for a lot of this series.
But just like the Siakam and Halliburton is just remember
there were questions about is this duo enough to make
any sort of debt in the East, and people were wondering, oh,
was that the right trade for Indie to make when
it came to getting Siakam. I'm not saying they're gonna
go to the conference finals. There's still a lot of
this series left to play. This team is really it
is good. It is balanced, and most important it is
it's not deep, Grant, it's playoff deep.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So to your point, a couple of things, And
then I want to ask you a question about a
more a broader angle here. So, of the guys that
have attempted in this series on Indiana, at least I
think it's at least three threes in the series, two
players are shooting under fifty percent on threes, Tyre's Haliburton
and Ben Matherin everybody else go down the list, Sakam
Nemhard Turner, Nie Smith is sixty two and a half
percent topping sixties has gone two for three, Jars Walker's
two for three, Like everybody's hitting threes, and that's because
partly because they're running hot, but also also because like
Haliburton is diming these guys up, Like these are good
looks they're getting. Generally speaking, I don't know what the
wide open and open data are, but they the pacers
are getting really good shots. And that ties back to
the question I want to ask you, which, like the
answer is always a little bit of both. But do
you think Indiana looks this good because Indiana is this good?
Or is it or is it because the Bucks just
like they just don't have the guys to like put
real pressure on Indiana's playmakers and cover the you know
what I mean, like is it is it Indiana or
is it Milwaukee? Is is it? Because if it's Indiana,
then we have to talk about them making a deeper
run than maybe we thought. And if it's Milwaukee, then
it's just like, well, well, we just have another series
where we say, well, the Pacers got through, but like
we we all know, you know, like we did when
they made the conference finals.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's tough. I do think it's more so the Pacers,
but it's just like, because didn't we know that the
Bucks were just never gonna be I guess maybe some
people did you pick them to win this series. I
don't think you did.
Speaker 2: I think we both pay the Pacers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think it's just more so the Pacers.
They've made a lot of good adjustments, and I think
that the way that they've shown in all these different
ways that they could score because it was the Bucks.
Kaitlyn Cooper had this stat the Bucks switched like fifty
two percent of the offensive possession, which was their highest
mark of the year in Game two. It's like, yeah,
that's a game where I under they I could. I
actually think Doc Rivers has tried some like different shit
on defense, so give I mean, that's a lot of switching.
I didn't know it was gonna be that high, but
the Pacers just figured out ways to bust through even
when it hasn't been, you know, as easy as it
was in Game one. So I think it's more so
the Pacers because I think they can beat you with
a bunch of different players and in a bunch of
different ways now. And I think that honestly, the growth
of Nem hard Shore, even the growth of Benancmathrim, but
I think that's where the addition of Pascal Siaka makes
a ton of difference. Is that if you go back
to not last season, but the season before, it was
kind of just they felt like not a one note
but maybe a one and a half note offensive team.
Where's if they're not playing fast, they're in transition, what
are they gonna do how they don't need to do that,
Like they can pick you apart surgically more so than
they could last season even and I know the Bucks
defense has more weak points to press than the teams
that they would face moving forward at the same time,
and I'm curious if you disagree with the logic, would
be like, I think this is more Pacers than Bucks.
Speaker 2: I think it is, and I looked up the stats
to answer my own question, and this this goes to
what we're talking about. The Pacers have taken one three
point shot through the first two games of this series
that was defined as tight tightly covered, which was which
means a defender within two to four feet from three.
Every single other three they've taken has been either open
or wide open. So like, the shot quality from deep
that Indya is getting is like, you can't lose a
series unless you just like you're cursed or something. If
you're getting that high quality of three point looks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's they're really good. And so I don't we
shouldn't get too far ahead of our skis here, but
I am curious to see how they're going to match
up like in the next series, just assuming that they're
gonna get there. So they're gonna be facing Cleveland spoiler alert,
we'll get to Cleveland, Miami in a second. I actually
don't hate the way that they match up against Cleveland.
Speaker 2: Though, No, I it's gonna be look before we move on, Uh,
are we gonna get a punch thrown in Indiana Milwaukee
before nix Pistons or after.
Speaker 1: I think after that, like there's the there's the history,
more history between this version of the Pacers and this
version of the Bucks. But like Nick Pistons has been
like everyone's just mad and there's like everyone's real mead
like pointing after like your team's down eight, you dunked it,
and then he's pointing a finger. I think that was
at o G. I think someone's gonna throw a punch there.
Warriors Rockets clock keeping conspiracies already coming out of that series.
Speaker 2: So we have three series because Warriors Rockets is real chippy,
so we need a fourth. We need a fourth so
that half the series are like at the risk of violence.
Speaker 1: I feel like that, which so of the live game
violence though, like do you I feel like there might
be more bodies hitting the floor in Pacers Bucks. It
feels like I feel like every time looking up feels
like someone might be on the floor. Man misremembering here.
Speaker 2: I mean Warriors Rockets Game two was intense, like there
was so many tie ups, like I feel like, uh,
Stephan Jalen Green got in multiple jump balls together just
like being like diving on the floor and like, I mean,
if those two are scrapping, like we're really we've got
something we should do Cleveland Miami next. Unless you have
more on the Pacers.
Speaker 1: I do not. What are your thoughts on Cleveland Miami?
Speaker 2: I mean the main thing, it's the main thing on
the Cavs side. The best offense in the league has
been validated. They have the best playoff offense so far
one hundred and thirty three offensive rating. And that ties
into like I think Miami is actually like pretty good,
Like I know that like Hero got picked on in
Game one. But defensively, if especially if Davion Mitchell is
gonna be a bigger part of the rotation, which looks
like is just gonna happen. Uh, they can put Mitchell,
high Smith, Wiggins Bam like they have real defenders on
the floor. Uh, and and like different types too, Like
Mitchell's pretty tough at point of attack, Like that's kind
of why he's in the league, That's certainly why he
was drafted where he was. Wiggins has a pedigree defensively
against like really good wings. The Calves kind of don't
have those, but he can go up or down the
positional spectrum and then Bam is Bam and the Calves
just can score. So like, this is what a one eight,
This is more competitive than a one eight should look,
I think, but it is a one eight, and I
think that's like just the the sheer talent and production
that Cleveland has is like, I just it's it's it's
valid it's it's being validated in so far or inasmuch
as a one versus eight series can validate something.
Speaker 1: What was more? What's more shocking to you that this
has been more of a Sam Merrill series than a
DeAndre Hunter series, or that Nikola Jovic is getting crunch
time run over Andrew Wiggins or Miami. What's more surprising? Uh?
Speaker 2: Probably the second one, although should we be ever surprised
Ifiggins is like, oh man, he's not here tonight, Like
that's just that's that's that's priced in. Did we overthink?
I again, these are small samples, and so Mitchell's big
second half that like stabilizes game two, you know, the
heat we're kind of in it and he Mitchell just
put it away. Do we overthink?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Actually, Mobiley is the Cavs most valuable player. And I
say this because he just and he just won Defensive
Player of the Year and had a really good game too,
But when Mitchell's cooking, it's kind of like, yeah, okay,
we over Mitchell just is Yeah, And I.
Speaker 1: Think even you look at like Mobile, I don't think
he's had like the the the postseason playmaking jump that
I might have forecasted him for. Mitchell be more important there. Yeah,
And I also just when you look at some of
the Calves like weaknesses so far through this series, where
well they're pretty met on rebounding, they can maybe fall
in love with matchup hunting against Tyler Hero And it's
just like Donovan Mitchell making shots is the antidote to
every single concern you might have about this team.
Speaker 2: Man making shots that like are bbicuously like spectacular, Like
Donovan Mitchell does a lot of cool shit where it's
like it's really obvious that he has that like lead
you know, lead dog, like big, you know, I got
the ball type of thing I'm gonna score, Like he
just is that guy. So and like Mobley's contributions are
always going to be more subtle, So Mobile, I feel
like we fall into the trap of like Mobley's like
the thinking man's Cavs best player where and actually it's
just Mitchell, because like the stuff Mitchell can do, Like,
you just can't win a bunch of playoff series unless
you have that guy, you know.
Speaker 1: So I wish I have no regrets from the regular season,
but this is one of those things whereas well, you can't.
It's you're looking at it through the ones of the
regular season. We get to the playoffs and it's we
get you're right, we overthought that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you know, but you're right too, though, Hey,
you know what, We're all right. Everybody's right. Both of us,
especially like Mobley did have maybe arguably the more impactful
regular season, but Mitchell is just like he's the more indispensive.
Like you can't do anything in the playoffs unless you
think Garland can actually just do all the Mitchell stuff,
which like sometimes it looks like you can, right, but
but Mitchell, I think really still is just you know,
the Cavs are just not anything close to what they
could be if Mitchell isn't doing stuff like you did
in the second half of game too.
Speaker 1: Are you worried at all about like, is anything they've
done next to I think Cleveland's fantastic. Well, I'm like
now kind of second guessing where You're looking at a
perspective series against Indy, and I'm trying to think of
like dynamic offenses, whether it's Indy or eventually Boston in
the Conference finals. I'm like, oh, is there Like are
they gonna have to at that point? You can't really
curtail the minutes of DeAndre Hunter wrighting. You might need
more of Isaaca Corro. Yeah, And I'm wondering are they
not as ready to face either of those two as
I would think? And again that might just be me overthinking,
but like Miami is not because you know, what this
series has done for me is like it's reinforced Tyler
Heroes made a ton of growth mm hm. And it's
also reinforced that, my god, this team needs another top
level creator. And that was true before the Jimmy Butler trade.
Speaker 2: Right, it can the two things can be true, Like
Tyler hero can have ascended to like another level of
like scoring star stuff, and the Heat still need someone
better than him on offense like that that really it's
kind of like the That's what we used to say
about Brunson, Right, It's like they still the Nick and
that may not be true anymore, but like he's great
the Knicks still needs someone as good or better than him.
Speaker 1: It might be you could even frame it because it
would be this with Brunson. You need to get someone
to where it's worth displacing Tyler Jailer Brunton from the
ball more.
Speaker 2: That's the better way to put it. Like he you're
not gonna go real far if Hero has to do
all that he's doing. Do you think Cleveland is more
vulnerable to a team that has like someone that forces
Mobley to guard a big than than they are against,
like a really good guard like that forced both Mitchell
and Garland to have to guard like a dangerous scorer.
I'm not sure that team is out there now because
if you, like I guess, you'd say yeah, I mean,
do you see what I'm getting at? Like, yeah, the
fix for Cleveland is like, well, Mobiley can just guard
Jason Tatum or some or whatever. But if, but if
you force Mobley to have Mobiley and Allen to have
to guard Biggs, is that more of a problem because
it means you just have no one to guard, like
a combo forward or a wing other than Hunter, I guess?
Or is it worse if like way you dust of
Dean Wade if he can stay healthy, that's your answer,
Dean Wade's always been the answer for Cleveland. Or or
is it like, well Garland has to guard. Yeah, I
don't even know who this team is. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: Is this like a way to answer it would be
would you be more worried about them their defensive game
plan for Tyree's Haliburton or Boston?
Speaker 2: Huh? Well, yeah, I guess we sud.
Speaker 1: More weapons, But like, I guess you see what I'm
kind of getting at here in the sense of like
who is that? Like you feel more confident about if
the Cavs have to match up opposite Jason Tatum or
Tyre's Haliburton, Like, what do they have more solves for?
Speaker 2: I feel like they probably have morese Can we say
they have more solves for Boston? Is that insane?
Speaker 1: I think you're looking at like one player maybe, But.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I mean that's gonna be the
central question. This team is not gonna I don't think
the Calves are gonna run into problems scoring right like that.
It's just eventually they'll play a team that is gonna
stretch what they can do defensively with two small Guards
and like the carousel of you know, small forwards that
which is like all those guys are pretty good at
least good at something, you know, between a Korro and
Wade and Hunter and Struce.
Speaker 1: But like even like with Mitchell, like specifically, if you're
gonna have Tyre's Halbert and do any of his off
ball stuff, like Mitchell might be able to handle that type.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it just becomes it's an m hard
series and he just cooks Garland main series. Maybe I
don't think there is a Benedic matherin series.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Worse about the Calves. Like through the first couple of
games this series, that wasn't necessarily what I was getting at.
It was just it made me think, like, all right,
the Heat have had some more like good offensive moments
that I would have expected out of this series, right,
And is that problematic at all? I think?
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think the Heat they won
thirty seven games with thirty seven is that right? They
won thirty seven games. They're just better than that, I think.
And then it's still a small enough sample where like
I don't really feel like anything from this series big
Shocker has made me like, oh god, we got to
go back to We got to get back in the
lab and try to figure out how good Cleveland is. Like,
I still think we got a pretty good idea our
next series.
Speaker 1: Oklahoma Stame Memphids.
Speaker 2: Okay, can I get into the We're gonna do like
a post mortem on Memphis. Even though as we record
this the series is three to zero, we don't have
confirm anything beyond like John Moran had that rough fall
on his hip.
Speaker 1: Did you how did you feel about the lou doort
of people are.
Speaker 2: I don't think there's anything there. I think like it's
I don't know what you do about that. I guess
like what you could do is just like anytime a
guy is airborne, if you touch him, it's a flagrant
too and you're out of you You're done, because that
would really make guys be extra careful and maybe we
avoid some of these things. But the even the Butler
one was like Draymond basically pushed Aman Thompson into him
or I think it was Thompson, and so it's like,
there's nothing malicious there. I don't think guys ever, with
with rare, rare exceptions, none of which come to mind,
like try to take guy's legs out when they're in
the air. That just like isn't a thing. I don't know,
what do you think?
Speaker 1: I'm with you? I think Also, couldn't scott that was
Scotti Pippen junior, right, couldn't he have just taken the
shot instead of whatever to just throw it out there?
Speaker 2: Oh, so there's all Scottie Pippin's fault. I see what
you're saying.
Speaker 1: So I'm assumed. I'm trying. I want to guess, not
that you necessarily have a singular takeaway, but can I
guess what yours might be about? Sure? I have two
I'm gonna go. I'm gonna myself two options. It's either
the defense slash Alex Caruso, who is this pocket sized behemi?
Or are you gonna talk about chet Holmgren just bombing
away from deep in this year.
Speaker 2: Twenty three second a half points, He's he's the Thunder's
best player. No, I mean this is another one where
after game one it's just like, look what are we
doing this? This is ridiculous? And then game three, you know,
the Grizzlies are up a million points and then lose
probably wouldn't have lost if Moran had stayed in it. So, like,
you know, even a single fifty point blowout doesn't just
you know, I mean, we don't have to keep watching
for the thunder though, like what I we we haven't
learned anything about the thunder, Like unless you want to
fixate on, like, oh, Sga is having a hard time scoring,
It's like, yeah, well he didn't have to do anything
in game one, and you know.
Speaker 1: So that's fair. But I actually think the increase in
chet Holmegren's like permanent three point volume is a big deal.
And the other thing too is maybe this is gonna
depend on how you feel about Memphis's defense, like Jacob
probably just I think we can officially say the concerns
primary concerns that you have about okc's offense. I don't
know if my my concerns weren't as large to begin with,
and they might just not be as warranted anymore. He
has he has made grant and I know they've made
life tough on SGA. But that kind of speaks to
Memphis game planner.
Speaker 2: The strategy is right if you've got to try to
take SGA out, if you have any hope of winning.
Speaker 1: Jay Dubb has made more unassisted two point field goals
than Shay Gilgers Alexander in this year.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's got the two hard dribbles pull up
around the elbows.
Speaker 1: Like that's his his like patience, the cadence on ball
when he gets into the lane, like you go back
to like year one year, like just kind of like
night and day, Like he's just become so much more
dynamic from the in between. He's also shooting seventy point
six percent on drives to the basket in this series.
That's it. That's absurd. This is it's not everything because
of what we know the Grizzlies were doing coming into
the playoffs and then just some of the stuff that's happened.
But it's like you said before I went off in
this little tangent, is well, if teams are gonna make
life difficult, shake guilds, Alexander, is you need the second
guy who can create an advantage, whether it's for himself
or for others. The Knicks don't have it consistently. The
thunder do I think that we're there. I might be
prepared to say that we're there.
Speaker 2: I mean, the numbers were trending that way. We talked
about it a lot of like, well, Jada by himself
not so hot, but like, well that's the tiny fraction
of the non SGA minutes because most of the time
he's got Chet or Hartenstein with him, and then it's
like it's more than fine. The offense works. It's just
like these So yeah, I think it's like it was
the the can Jada be the offensive engine was always
like the thing we went to because there's just nothing
else to talk about with this team really, like it
still feels like they remember it was the lack of size,
and it's kind of like, well now they can go
du a big if they want.
Speaker 1: Who cares?
Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing, go due a big, or they could go
no bigs and their defense still kicks as like guards.
Yeah matter. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Did you see the play call in game three? It
was initially I posted it before I saw the outcome
of it, but they called Alex Caruso for a but
it was really an illegal screen on Zach Edy, and
so my first thought was, before I saw the thunder
challenged it and that it was overturned, was one that
should have been an illegal screen on Edie. And then
I was like and then two and it didn't even
matter that he did, Like they could have just did none.
That be a play on and Alice Cruzo is still
busted up the play and then that strip where I
think they called it a block but that strip he
had on Triple J and the post like what is
I know? He can't play thirty five minutes a night
in some of his he was injured at one point
during the regular season, he's been iffy on offense, like
holy shit, Like.
Speaker 2: I mean, we've had years now where like doesn't it
feel like the more advanced the metric defensively, the more
it shows Caruso is like god, tear like it just
that doesn't like whatever. It's like, the less, I don't know,
the more niche it gets, the more it's like, oh
my god, he's like a fifty million dollar player, Like
you just can't like he's you know, that's I'm exaggerating,
but like and now you kind of see it. It's
and it's like it's weird that like the things he
does that always get him so high in defensive estimates
estimated plus minus and you know, Lebron and all this
other stuff. It's like you could just watch the game
and see him destroy offensive possessions with like incredible strength
and timing and anticipation and speed, and just like I
just like I don't, I don't know how he's so
he's just he's unbelievable, and like we have to throttle
back because like there are concerns with him, like sometimes
the shot goes cold and sometimes or just healthy, yeah,
or he won't take him and so like that's why
he's you know, making twenty million and.
Speaker 1: Instead of fifty, instead of fifty.
Speaker 2: Well, and that's also why like the Bold being you know,
dumb and all, like you know, it didn't cost him
mint to get him, like he just there are those things.
But like, man, when he's it's so absurd that he's
like the sixth or seventh most important player on this team.
And maybe maybe he's higher than that, but like that
just speaks to what the Thunder are capable of. You
want to So I don't have a lot else on
the Thunder. It's just like they they maybe should have
lost three this. I think I picked it as a sweep. Yeah,
so did I, but like whatever, it's probably a sweep.
Speaker 1: It's I think if I had the takeaway I mean,
I don't know, like when you can kind of dig
into the numbers. So Chet five point two to three
pointers per thirty six minutes in the regular season. I
know it's only been three games. I think he's at
nine per thirty six in the series. That's fairly big deal.
But the j dub stuff for me, where she's like
picking apart Scotty Piper, Junior's actually had some good moments
on Like he's picked apart Desmond Baine, he's torched Memphis
is Bigs when they're throwing on him. I think, if
you need a big takeaway for the thunder from this
that's not defense related, it's all right, Like the offense
just might have more safety valves than even people who
are optimistic about their offense thought.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I caveat the Grizzlies defense sucked for like the.
Speaker 1: Caveat loudor uh. And then Jay dubbed themselves specifically like
they've shot a good number of threes and they're not
really making them. So it's like there are shots that
could also go in that have not gone in.
Speaker 2: This could be worse, is what you're saying.
Speaker 1: Right, it could be five to oh through three games, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not going to check your mouth, but
I think I think you're right.
Speaker 1: We'll have to check your proprietary metrics subscription after this.
Our final series is our final one, right, already lost count? Yeah?
Well Diics versus Magic, We're still waiting. As we're recording this,
I haven't heard anything about Jason Tatum's wrist injury other
than he missed game two obviously. I also don't think
it's pretty clear what we were both worried about. Well,
what's John Brown gonna look like? With all this knee
stuff going on? It's kind of clear after game two
that they don't need Jason Tatum to win this year.
Speaker 2: Is My takeaway was Jalen Brown seems pretty okay to me,
And that's a problem because maybe that was the way
you'd poke a hole in Boston and say they're vulnerable.
Speaker 1: Can I say one thing though, this one weren't counter
Joe Missoula and what he said about Chris Tops. It
was fun seeing Jaylen Brown not lead. I think that
was fun.
Speaker 2: You've always you and your don't get guys bloodied stances,
my anti core stances, Yeah, out of control, broken record,
out of you, Yeah, I don't know what else to
take away from Boston here. The Orlando side of it's
a lot more interesting.
Speaker 1: I do the one thing I'll take I'm in agreement
with you. The one thing I do think the Celtics
could be in trouble if, like they actually ever need
Christaps porzingis to punish mismatches against a team that won't
foul him. But I also like the ratcheting it up
from Drew Holliday in the play. Wasn't like kind of
the discussion, oh yeah, oh, if they're gonna make a
change this offseason, Like, is Drew Holliday kind of playing
for cementing his spot on this team? And I'm not
saying they couldn't survive without him, but it's just kind
of reiterates, Oh no, I know, Drew Holidays, it's still
pretty valuable player. Even if you're not happy with where
the price point checks in.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing you you would have to point
to if you're pre Oh my god, Jaalen Brown's knee.
It's like, well, what's what's Boston's biggest weekend? It's like, well,
holiday got I think it was the Grizzlies, Like, oh
he got they schemed did let him shoot seventeen threes
and his three point percentages down and it worked in
that game because it broke the offense and he couldn't
hit open shots and whatever. It's like, he's forty two
percent for the series. Looks fine. Yeah, I think I
think Brown looking good holiday making shots and looking good.
I guess the porzingist thing, You're probably right, like eventually
someone will figure out, like he won't shoot a hook
shot and he turns the same way every time and
he's just foubating. But like it's not like the Celtics
need that to work ten times a game, Like you
get two or three and you're good.
Speaker 1: So before we then move on to magic, can I
ask you a question about the Celtics. If Jalen, if Jalen,
if Jason Tatum is either hurt and he's not one
hundred percent he's missing games, or if he's not, who's
the tougher matchup for them between Detroit and New York?
Speaker 2: Oh uh, I kind of still think it's New York,
And I guess I'd say that for all the same reasons.
I still think the Knicks will win that series. It's
just like Tatum, like if Tatum doesn't play, then then
I I mean, like, are the Knicks favored in that series?
They have to be if it's Nick Celtic, don't you
think not playing a minute, you're still gonna favor the Celtics.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I would probably say that the Knicks
are a tougher matchup for the Celtics than the Pistons.
Just it's it's a cop out, but it's the top
end talent thing and anything. I think Detroit's defense is
way I would say, probably way better suited to defend Boston.
But yeah, need to generate consistent offense at some point.
The Knicks are gonna do that more often than Detroit
would be my guest, But I don't would you pick?
So maybe they would be favored, but would you pick
the Knicks to beat Boston? Just say Jason Tatum wasn't playing.
We know that won't be the case, but would you
pick I wouldn't pick the Knicks to beat.
Speaker 2: Boston, man, I'd have to think. Really, I think they
could get.
Speaker 1: Their first win of the season over Boston at some
point in that series, But not picking them.
Speaker 2: To win it, Well, if they are going to get one,
it's gonna come in games Tatum doesn't play. Uh yeah,
I don't know. I'd have to think harder about it.
But like I I don't know. I think maybe they'd
be favored. I'm just saying that's fine, But do you
think would you win the series? It would allow depend
on how they handle the rest of the series against Detroit.
Like if they just blow the doors off and everything
looks like it's working, well, maybe I think I might
pick the Knicks, But hopefully we don't have to make
that decision. Orlando Dan, tell me, tell me why the
takeaway is anything other than the Magic are exactly who
we thought they were, for good or ill, And nothing
about this series has changed a single thing that we
came into it thinking.
Speaker 1: Well, actually I don't want to be so I agree
with you, but I am sort of wondering, like, has
it changed, you know how? Because pal Ben Carrol's like
still finding ways to do things, you know, do you
know it's kind of not everybody else like, is it
has your opinion of it? We've I've been up and down,
like the impression spectrum on Franz Wagner. But I think
the ultimate takeaway is they need better spacing around them,
and I'll view this through the lens of bank Caro,
but this is this is what this This is the
takeaway from the series, which was the take away from
last year's playoffs, which has been the takeaway from this
team for the past few years. Ben Carroll's teammates were
in the fourteenth percentile of off ball gravity. This year,
they were in the first percentile of overall three point
shot making, and grant, I don't real think there's a
mathematically possible, but statistically they were in the zero fith
percentile of catching shoot three point shot making. So get
some just if it doesn't happen this offseason, fire everybody,
just fire everybody. It's they need spacing, they need an
advantage creator who doesn't shrink the floor. And it's just
the fact that they didn't. And we liked the KCP
signing when we thought that wasn't going to be the
only move that they were really gonna make. The fact
that we're here nothing at the trade deadline, I don't care about.
There's nothing last offseason. It's really disappointing. Verging on I
would say malpractice because your core is young, but your
core is getting more expensive. So you're only gonna get
somebody bites at the apple before this organization, I imagine
cheaps out.
Speaker 2: So two points one, Palo point one. Frand's point, Since
you asked, I think it's well documented that, like even
going back to it was sort of a bit, and
then it wasn't, and then maybe it was again, but
still sort of not. The Jadaub is better than than
I'd pick. I'd rather have Jadub than Powlo thing. And
the argument then whether it was a bit or not,
was that like the way that Paolo becomes the you know,
the best version of himself is like there's kind of
only one way he has to be like a singular
offensive driver, like like you know, we're talking like top five,
top ten offensive players in the league, maybe top five.
It's like I kind of think that's there for him,
and that only ups the urgency to get the shooters
around him that you're talking about, because you're wasting it
right now. Like he I really do think he is
a good enough passer that like he can create you
enough open shots for teammates that just need to make them.
And he's such a physical load, like he's still get
into the foul line, like nine times a game in
this series, even though everything is geared to stop him,
He's shooting over fifty percent from the field or right
at fifty forty six from three like somehow is only
averaging two turnovers despite like the whole deal is don't
let him kill you. So I I think I think
Pallo like he's got a lot of all nbas in
his future. And then the only question is will that
translates to team success? And and it's a yes to me,
It's a yes for me. Dog if if the magic
puts some.
Speaker 1: Shooting there, everybody Grant's conceited, I just think that can
come up.
Speaker 2: It's still a ceiling floor thing. I just think, like
I'm more convinced that, oh shit, he's gonna.
Speaker 1: Hit the ceiling I which and you've kind of like
trended towards that direction over like just.
Speaker 2: Just became more of And now it's you know, it's
more obviously.
Speaker 1: Undeniable because the spacing within which he's needed to work
the past two postseasons is.
Speaker 2: Absolute ass well, and you ran the numbers. It's like, oh, like,
factually speaking, the guys he's surrounded by are as bad
as it gets in terms of like giving him space
to operate or making the shots he creates for them.
So it's just like we have all we've had all
the information. Now we like really have all the information,
So go ahead.
Speaker 1: I was mass the only novel thing. I was making
kind of a joke about Franz Wagner. He's shooting fifty
eight percent on twos in the series, but six three
throws through two games and just grant thirty seven effective.
He'll go rate on jumpers, and it's just I don't
know that I've like, who's the last player that was
really good and you still think could be really good
where it feels like they're jump shot is deteriorated. There,
this is the thing.
Speaker 2: It's it's a real thing. Like his the aesthetics of
his shot are like, oh my god, that's not that's
never going in. Like I don't know if it's I
can't I haven't watched him closely enough to know if
like the the the like, Like I don't know it's
like it's buffering or like it's like skipping frames or
like there's a there's a hitch is the simplest way
to say it. Like he's just it's got to have
some like mechanical overhauls happened. Whatever the thing is, Like
you can still really like as an overall player and say,
and we did early in the season, like, oh my god,
he's an All NBA guy, which was a huge departure
because I thought the max for him was I don't
like it. The reason I didn't like it is because, like,
I don't know, is he duplicative with Polo? Like now
you can make the case that it's like it's not
just that he's duplicative, it's like he actively is unhelpful
because like, because Polo should have the ball, right, you
need secondary creators, but Polo should have the ball, and
that means Franz has to make shots, right, Like like,
how how are you helping if if you're not able
to cash in the shots your best player creates for you.
Like yeah, you can be said you can win the
minutes without Pawlo because Franz has the ball. That's that's good.
But like, the fit issues are more pronounced than ever
because like your second best guy that you maxed out,
just like I don't know, doesn't really work all that
well offensively with your best player. That seems like a
problem to me, like if he fixes a shot, if
he could shoot thirty six percent from three, like we're
done talking about it. Yeah, like from what we're seeing now,
Like I don't know if that's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: I wasn't laughing because I thought your point was rong.
Was laughing because actively unhelpful. It's just it's perfect, and
it's also just like, yeah, I've even my overreaction to
the series was and it was by the end of
game two. I was just like I would call Charlotte
right now and offer Franz Wagner in a package for
the mellow Ball.
Speaker 2: I love it. You see, You're You're an action You're
a You're a solutions guy. I just point out the problems.
Speaker 1: I think that's I don't think I'm the most emotional
person when it comes to analyzing the game, but I'm
way more emotional about it, Like you can detach and
kind of take the more. I still get into those
fits where it's like trade this guy and we're two
games into a playoff series. I think we have all
the evidence that he's still super valuable.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, No, I I think it all ties back
to like I'm more. I'm just more and more convinced
that Pallo is is so has the capacity to be
so good that like you really need to just tailor
stuff around him, and it's not it shouldn't be that hard.
Speaker 1: And it's kind of a it is a similar question
now that we had for the rockets at the open.
But if you believe that, how already is that offensive? Guys?
I mentioned LaMelo ball is the name, but I'm not
even sure if that that's not the level of player
they need to go get, right, It could be and
Anthony Simons is the name we can it? Could it
be a Kobe White, like is it does a tie Jerome?
If they got we're able to get him in free agency?
Is it what? Like do you think it needs to
be an all star type? Or could it be someone
who's more of the TI trow might be too extreme,
like someone of the in between.
Speaker 2: Honestly, like like just forget the defense because this I
think it's still don't need his carrying skill, Yeah, and
you don't need it, like offensively, a Derek White like
someone that just will make will make open threes, can
create enough on his own, will always make the connective pass,
Like I think that gets you a lot of mileage,
Like now Derek White is I mean, I think borderline
all NBA as it is, but like you don't need
the like thirty percent usage maybe can get you ten
assists a game. Guy, You don't necessarily need Malik Beasley
on the other, you know the other end of it,
like who just cashes in all these threes? Like you
just need like two more capable pass shoot, dribble players. Okay,
they don't need to be stars. I would worry about it.
Speaker 1: Derek White type is the acquisition because I wonder if
what does he look like outside the comfy confines of
Boston's existence spacing, Like is he going to create? Like
how much space is he going to create? As maybe
the what soul force of gravity on Orlando?
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing. It can't just be. It probably
can't just be one guy. I don't think.
Speaker 1: I think I think it could be like if you
put Jamal Murray on this team.
Speaker 2: Ooh yeah, you could really accommodated Jamal Murray too, because
who cares who is guarding?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: I don't look the Magic need offensive help around. Paalo Bankaro,
Welcome to twenty twenty three's analysis.
Speaker 1: Do you have anything else to add, or you're ready
to take us out of here.
Speaker 2: I think I'll take us out of here. Really good
job by us under two hours talking about eight different series.
Let us know your thoughts on the series and and
miss with the this is outdated. We're recording this Friday.
There's gonna be three games tonight and by the time
you hear this, they will have happened.
Speaker 1: I wonder what what series, Let's let's fast forward in time.
What's the series that's taking place? A part that you
think your thoughts could like most dramatically change from the
outcome of the game.
Speaker 2: Uh, if the Nuggets they don't play tonight though, so
of the games tonight or of Yeah, I think if.
Speaker 1: Lakers Timberwolves would be the one that I think could
age the word because I'm looking at Bucks Pacers and
then no, I don't. I mean, I'll be shocked if
anything ages poorly in Uh Celtics Magic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I Franz Wagner hits fourteen threes record, I'm
gonna go with that. If the Magic have like a
blowout offensive game, then we'll have to reevaluate. I don't know,
what do you think.
Speaker 1: I think it's just Lakers Timberwolves, because that's the one
that I was kind of like, I see a lot
of people who I think are smart focusing on the
like the Gobart and Lucas stuff and what the Lakers
were able to do to pick THEMP part on defense.
But then I'm I'm sitting here like, well, I don't
I don't think that's the issue. Like I maybe I
just don't have a great and I'm awesome pointed to like, man,
what if like some of the Lakers players actually start
hitting threes?
Speaker 2: What Well, we've already said, like we don't really have
a handle on that series yet because it's been make
or miss, so we've we've insulated ourselves just fine. I think. Yeah,
thanks everybody for listening, for watching. Remember rate review, subscribe,
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leave us a comment there. Join our discord links for
that YouTube and podcast description. A good place to we
do the live game Campfires channel. It's typically been popping
Dan in the during some of these games. You want
to the word pop it, I did, I did, but
I said, typically been so it's like just square enough
to admit that I shouldn't be saying that we should
get out of here before I say anything else, shouts
Franklin King. Apologies, chaired down