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Speaker 1: What he's up. Fellow Sikos, I am in Valley coming

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at you once more with my certify fan tabus one

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and only legendary co host, mister grant Us. The playoffs

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from the NBA are one week old, so we're gonna

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talk about our biggest takeaways and observations from every single

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first round series, none of which will be over by

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the time you listen to this, but a few of

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them may be tracking towards that direction before we get started. Grant,

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how are you overall? And how are you feel about

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these playoffs so far?

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Speaker 2: How am I'm doing? I'm doing very well overall. Thanks

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for asking. I I probably am just gonna repeat myself

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if you go back and listen to the one year

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ago version of this podcast. But like, aren't the playoffs great?

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Like is it just it's just like it's night and day.

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It's so much better. Just like we're coming off as

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we're recording this, that game three of Nick's pistons, which

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was just like god, you know, I feel like Reggie Miller.

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It's like, this is what playoff basketball is supposed to be.

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Where there's like a scrum, you know, three times a quarter.

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It's not just that like, that's that, but that's a

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symptom of like what makes it so everybody's trying their

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best and like that's just not always the case over

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an eighty two game season. So I'm I'm this is great.

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Like the first round is a lot, it's overwhelming. I know,

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we've talked about this. It's just a lot to like

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really have dialed in focus on just the volume of

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the games and just the minutia and the tactical stuff.

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But like, I would trade, I'd do this all year

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as opposed to like some of the lulls and dead

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periods get you know, and.

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Speaker 1: There's just been there's always a lot of unpredictability. But

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just like and then some of the stuff that sucks,

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like the Ja Morant hip injury. We'll get into it,

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the Jason Tatum rist injury, We'll get into it. Joe Mizzoula,

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they're like saying it was fun to see him bleed

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when looking at porzingis then.

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Speaker 2: Tyler Barker thing, anyone's like, that's on Yler.

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Speaker 1: Parker from I think he's from The Ringer like had

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an image of Joe Mazzula's press conference and then captioned

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it like my blood is a top three liquid in

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my mind, opinion was it was. It was ridiculous enough

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you knew it was a joke, but it was like

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Joe Miszulam might say so, yeah, sure. And even the

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nick Pistons ending in game three where people were accusing

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like the Pistons scored timekeeper clock keeper or whatever, just like, oh,

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they gave them like a free out of bounds plane.

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It's well, no, like it's an impartial person like for

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a different I think arena or team, like whatever organization

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that runs it. And then so that game was just weird,

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like Carl Anthony Townsley was like, yo, shout out to

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them giving the Pistons another possession that was fire for

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your team. Uh. And then even did you see people

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complaining that? Which that was my first reaction to that.

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Clippers Nuggets was the NBA TV game, and then Grizz

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Thunder was the National TV game. Yeah. Turns out the

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NBA knew what it was talking about in that scenario

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because the Thunder have the greatest playoff come back in history. Yeah.

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I think it's been it's been great. It's been overwhelming

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and a lot of fun so far. Are we ready

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to just dive in here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's get to it.

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Speaker 1: We begin with the series. Neither of us has any

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emotional attachment to its outcome. The Houston Rockets versus the

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Golden State Warriors. We were recording this as they are

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knotted up at one game apiece. I have not seen

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other than the he has a glute like bruised butt,

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basically Jimmy Butler. That's a good thing for jep Stots.

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But after he had to leave game two, I know

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Brandon Pejemski was dealing with the stomach issue in game

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two as well. Do you have you seen anything new

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on that, Like do you expect before just getting into

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your biggest observations here, do you expect would you be

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surprised if Butler's playing in game three?

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Speaker 2: I'd be surprised if he wasn't. I but I also

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I then would not be surprised if it's pretty clear

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early on that he's not moving well and you know,

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might be something where he's just not that effective, because

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I mean that was a that was a rough fall,

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like really very similar to the injury Steph had, you

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know towards the end of the regular season, just just

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a rough fall like right smack on the tailbone. I

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think maybe Butler looked like he kind of got on

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one side versus the other. But that's just gonna hurt

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like that, you know, that's just you're not gonna get

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away from that one for for quite a while. I

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don't think so. I bet he'll play, though, don't you

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think I.

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Speaker 1: Would be shock didn't he? I think Jeff sta said

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he suffered a similar injury while with the heat and

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then he played. He miss zero games because of it.

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And the Warriors aren't really in a position that we're like, yeah,

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like you can take it right.

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Speaker 2: What are you saving them for?

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Speaker 1: Uh? But they have Pat Spencer, so maybe they'll be

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all right. What's the what sort of I did like

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though that they I think Kerr or Draymond or someone

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might have called the what happened reckless, but like everyone,

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even Draymond Green and Kerr both made it clears like no,

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this like wasn't Aman Thompson's fault, This wasn't done on purpose.

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I respected that. Whereas like the reaction to the Ja

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Morant lou Dort stuff, where it's like, well, like Jamrant

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gets injured all the time on dunks, maybe stop dunking.

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But either so, what are you think like this series?

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What have you made of it? What are your biggest

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takeaways right now?

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Speaker 2: I mean, wouldn't you say? I would say that it's

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aligned pretty closely with like a lot. That's the other

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thing generally, and this will apply to this series, so

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I'll just say it. I guess, speaking more specifically, I

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don't think there's been a whole lot that has strayed

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very far from like what we sort of laid out

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before the series in terms of like strengths and weaknesses

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and like pressure points and who's going to have the

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matter and things like that. Like it's been just a physical,

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defensive series. The Rockets are huge and athletic. The Warriors

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beat them mostly with experience and guyle. You know, in

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the first game, the Rockets half court offense is as

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like can be, as clunky as we thought it would be.

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Speaker 1: You were right by the way, I have to say.

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I asked if you thought they could get away with

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playing the two bigs plus Aman Thompson, and the answer

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offensively is no.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, here's a stat This is just because one of

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the things I found myself thinking really in game two,

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like as the Rockets we were winning, was you know,

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can the Rockets ever play good enough offense? Like but

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good enough? I mean, and I'll get to a question

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I have for you in a minute. So like they

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might win this series with this offense, Like that's possible,

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Like especially if Butler is limited or pajem Ski doesn't

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play well or is limited. It doesn't seem that's likely.

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But like bigger picture, with Shangoon and Aman Thompson on

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the floor together, ninety seven point one points per hundred

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and the half court, that's forty eighth percentile. They're nineteenth

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percentile with those two plus van Fleet, Brooks and Green.

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So like you know, that's during the regular season, and

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so I think that's been that's born out during this series.

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So far. The Warriors have defended like pretty well. I

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think tactically they're doing most of the right stuff, which

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is not a surprise they've been through a lot of

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these series. But the Rockets offense is just it's just

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not really capable of being good enough consistently to you know,

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to offset if there's any defensive slippage, Like you know,

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they may just win because this defense is so physically

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overwhelming and they get enough transition shots that it's like, Okay,

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that's fine. But the question I wanted to ask you,

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like this may jump us ahead, it may not if

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you assume the Warriors are healthy ish, who do you

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think has the best chance of winning another series out

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of these two teams? Because going in like Houston number

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two seed looked really good in Game two. The Warriors

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have all the all this all the cliche stuff experience

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that maybe the best definitely the best player and stuff.

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But like, do you think the Rockets have enough offense

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to win another series? Or are they more likely to than

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the Warriors?

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Speaker 1: I guess, especially when we're gonna have to look at

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it through the lens of this team plays the winner

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of Nuggets Clippers, right, be four or five? My answer

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would be.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, this team will play the winner of Timberwolves.

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Speaker 1: Excuse me, you know the Timberwolves offense gets pretty gummy.

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I feel like that would be a better matchup for them. No,

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I just don't I think the Warriors have a better

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chance of winning another series because, yeah, they're they're not

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as small, They're not, I mean, they're smaller, they're less

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athletic than Houston, but they have more buttons to press

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on the offensive end, and it's sort of just the

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Rockets needed. They did have an above average half court

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rating in Game two, but you needed Jalen Green to

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go nuclear. And just like Fred van Fleet is in

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hell right now with the shooting percentage, he's not like

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on his drives, he's just not even shooting right now.

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So yeah, I think I don't feel great about it.

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But if they're relatively healthy, I think I have to

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go with Golden State has the better chance of beating

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the Timberwolves or the Lakers.

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Speaker 2: So which is I agree? Which is weird because I

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don't know what the odds are now for the series,

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but you know, being tied one to one and with

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the Butler uncertainty and the way the Rockets can just

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physically dominate, Like I kind of think it's I picked

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the Warriors in this series, and I guess I gotta

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stick with that. But like it's at best a coin

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flip now, right, Like don't you? I mean, I think

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maybe the Rockets should be favored just because of the

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Butler stuff. And then we're here sitting here saying like, actually,

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I don't think they can win another series, but they're

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probably gonna win this one.

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Speaker 1: I would normally disagree with you, actually, because I think

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that reliable half court offense is so important and if

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you don't have that top tier outside in shot creator,

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which for as good as Jalen Green can be, he

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has never once been out of you know, certain februaries

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like his extended stretches, and this is his first time

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in the playoffs. I don't think he's gonna have Game two.

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Is not close to his normal, is what I'm getting at, right,

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So I would normally say no, Like, I'm still pretty comfortable.

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I picked the Warriors and seven with you. I'm still

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pretty comfortable with that, even with the Butler injury. I

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think I would typically stand by that. I just think

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the thing that gives me pause is they are I

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said this sheet before we started, and you mentioned that

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they are big, they're physical. They're also like super fast

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and athletic when they want to. I don't know, like

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they're another team you remember watching that had that combination

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and then when you kind of contrast that against what

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they're doing to the Warriors. Let me use Steph as

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an example. Statistically, he's had a pretty good series. You

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look at the work he has to go through to

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get his points. Who is blanketing him? And then it's

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look at just what he's defending at the other end.

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It's like, oh, there's time on doing Brooks or on

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men Thompson. It's yeah, those guys aren't like difficult offensive,

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but they're just so like strong and physical. And this

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guy's now being put through the ringer on both ends

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of the floor essentially. And so because Steph is still

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the guy that powers everything, and because we now know

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that Jonathan Kaminga is just not it, assuming that he

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even sticks inside the rotation. Now, I get where you're

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coming from. So there's that uneasy for me. But I

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think I guess I'm defaulting towards experience or I still

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just think that the Warriors have more offensive versatility even

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if Butler's banged up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to get back to something you said,

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because if you're if we're looking for it's so early

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in the first round still, but one of the this

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will become clear as we talk about other series. One

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of the things I'm really fixating on, and I think

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is defining a lot of the early like back and

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forth is like just and the half court. Can you

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score in the half court. Like that's that, you know,

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it's not new. It's like we always talk to the cliches

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of well, the game slows down, and that's why we

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have concerns about teams like the Grizzlies in years past,

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this year's Rockets. It's like, if your offensive rating is

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good because you get offensive rebounds and you run a lot,

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that tends to not matter in the playoffs, and just

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it really does boil down to like just take the

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knixt series, like, well, if Jalen Brunson can get stuff

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going in the half court, the Knicks can win. And

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if Kat does stuff too, and it's like, well, if

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the Rockets can figure out how to score on the

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half court, they can win. And when Memphis is looking good,

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it's like sometimes it's just because they can score on

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the half you know what I mean. Like that feels

248
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like such a such a through line so far that

249
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it is like, you know, zoomed out one of the

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things you can look at every series and just ask

251
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the question of like, well, who's going to score best

252
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in the half court, and like, well, there's your favorite,

253
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you know, Like that that that feels like a pretty

254
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steady thing. So far, and maybe that's always been the case,

255
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but it just stands out pretty starkly so far. I mean, so,

256
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as you're watching this series, do you when you I'm

257
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trying to phrase this the right way because I don't

258
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want to draw like a perfect parallel, and I also

259
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don't want to get too far ahead to what we're

260
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to talk about with another series. But this version of

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the Rockets, do you think, as currently constructed they will

262
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ever is a long time, but can you see a

263
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future where like this core group is good enough offensively

264
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to be a contender? And what's that look like? What

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has to happen?

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Speaker 1: Oh, so that I feel like I have a more

267
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definitive answer to that, And I would say the answer

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is no if you're looking at this exact core. But

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there's the what it looks like is Read Shepherd, Pops, And.

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Speaker 2: I'm not that's where you were going.

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Speaker 1: Well, but isn't it true? I'm not saying. I mean,

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I would imagine if Udoka just like dust Off Reach

273
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Shepherd boy.

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Speaker 2: Well, hey, look, if the Warriors are gonna play Pat Spencer,

275
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the Rockets should have to play Read Shepherd. It should

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be a rule.

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Speaker 1: That's fair. I feel yeah, that should be a rule.

278
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But isn't that it looks like that, or you decided

279
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to make the people call it a consolidation, trade doesn'tcessarily

280
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need to be that, as you decided to go out

281
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and get the next sort of star who wants out

282
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who fits. Don't even say it doesn't even need to

283
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be the timeline, but fits what your biggest hole is,

284
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and it's sort of what's good about the Rockets is

285
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they have assets, they have talent, and I feel like

286
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knowing your weaknesses is important and the problem is the

287
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Magic have just never acted on it properly to address it.

288
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The Rockets just you want this information. We were both

289
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advocates of, no, they don't need to do anything at

290
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the trade deadline. Let's see what they do in the playoffs.

291
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And if you told me that they don't want to

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do anything the offseason, isn't conducive to them doing anything seismic.

293
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They want to see what Reed Shepherd has next year.

294
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They're gonna give him a real shot before the trade deadline.

295
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I'd be okay with that too, But I think isn't

296
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that what it would look because who is the player?

297
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Then if we're not talking about Reed Shepherd or talking

298
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about a trade. Is it still feels like Alprin Shangun

299
00:13:44,799 --> 00:13:46,360
would be the closest they come to, Like, well, this

300
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,879
guy's hour are half court everything, Like it's not Van Fleet,

301
00:13:49,879 --> 00:13:51,320
I mean even just looking at his age, and I

302
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,759
still don't. I don't. I don't think I'm ever gonna

303
00:13:53,759 --> 00:13:56,360
trust Jalen Green enough, especially as a passer. And then

304
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the final thing here would be I don't know if

305
00:13:59,639 --> 00:14:03,679
Am Thompson has that like slowed down gear, and maybe

306
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:05,639
he does, but like it's going to require him to

307
00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,519
have more of a perimeter oriented offensive armory, which he

308
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:10,399
just doesn't right now.

309
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I asked the question because it's the easy answer

310
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,759
is like, well, they've got the assets to make the

311
00:14:17,039 --> 00:14:19,080
make the Booker trade or whatever your stand in is

312
00:14:19,159 --> 00:14:21,759
for that type of trade. But then I can also

313
00:14:21,799 --> 00:14:24,159
imagine myself if I'm running, if I'm a haf Alstone

314
00:14:24,159 --> 00:14:27,720
and I'm running the Rockets, I'm thinking like, well, Jalen

315
00:14:27,759 --> 00:14:30,000
Green just scored thirty eight in a playoff game and

316
00:14:30,039 --> 00:14:32,440
he's twenty three. Like we all agree he's imperfect, but

317
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,720
that's interesting. Jabari Smith Junior continues, like he just validates

318
00:14:36,759 --> 00:14:39,120
every time I've ever called him an X factor, which

319
00:14:39,159 --> 00:14:42,200
is like a thousand times by now, because like he

320
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,519
he offers just dimensions that you don't get from their

321
00:14:44,559 --> 00:14:46,759
other big guys. And I really do think, you know,

322
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,120
ten more pounds and he can just be a center

323
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,039
like a lot of the time he already is sort

324
00:14:51,039 --> 00:14:54,720
of shaning. Gooon is so fascinating because I view him

325
00:14:54,879 --> 00:14:58,559
and that player type as like kind of definitionally like

326
00:14:58,679 --> 00:15:01,799
limiting a lot of ways to your offense, Like he

327
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,039
can be really good, but also he feels like he

328
00:15:04,159 --> 00:15:07,000
caps it and like Thompson might. You just there's no

329
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,639
scenario where you keep Thompson off the floor, like he

330
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,559
just needs to be a starter forever. But he's he

331
00:15:13,559 --> 00:15:16,039
could He could grow too, You could anyway. The point

332
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,639
is you could talk yourself into several rockets just organically

333
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,240
improving enough to where the answer to the is their

334
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,600
offense ever gonna be good enough to contend? Is just

335
00:15:23,679 --> 00:15:26,360
yes if one or two guys get better and Shepherd

336
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,200
pops or whatever. But like, I don't know, we're probably

337
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,600
getting way too far ahead for a series this timeline one.

338
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Speaker 1: I don't think we actually think a question that's not

339
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,080
asked enough is I think Devin Booker, Kevin Durant are

340
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,559
just to name everyone's zeros in on. But if you're

341
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,519
even looking at the players they already have in place,

342
00:15:40,799 --> 00:15:44,080
or just like the level of play, like how much

343
00:15:44,159 --> 00:15:47,120
better or how big do they need either Read Shepherd

344
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,480
or maybe Cam Whitmore or not, Like what is the

345
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,399
level of player they need for that element of the offense,

346
00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,919
because Devin Booker and Kevin Durant they fall. If you

347
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,120
need Read Shepherd to become as good or better than

348
00:15:57,159 --> 00:15:59,320
Devin Booker as an example, it's, oh, we've decided the

349
00:15:59,399 --> 00:16:02,720
Rockets need a star, right, but could they do something

350
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,120
like go get Kobe White or signed Ti Jerome and

351
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,039
that makes you feel a lot better about their playoff

352
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,840
or ceiling within the championship discussion, That's something I'm still

353
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,840
trying to figure out. And I honestly think Jalen Green

354
00:16:14,879 --> 00:16:16,960
and reach Ep are the easy answers. Well, those two

355
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,360
might determine it. You mentioned Shang Gun, and I think

356
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,720
it's fair to call him limiting in certain instances because

357
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:23,000
a lot of it is just like, well, how much

358
00:16:23,039 --> 00:16:24,759
work can he Like, yes, he can work from the

359
00:16:24,759 --> 00:16:27,679
outside in, but what Jokic can do and what Domasa

360
00:16:27,679 --> 00:16:29,600
Bonis has done a better job of doing over the

361
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,639
past year or two is like, well, they're gonna make

362
00:16:31,679 --> 00:16:34,639
defenses pay from the perimeter or two And does Alpert

363
00:16:34,639 --> 00:16:36,360
and Shangun have that. It's not even the like he

364
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,200
has the ball control and can put the ball on

365
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,759
the deck to attack defenses, but can he like get

366
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,399
jumpers up and hit them enough to make defenses respect him?

367
00:16:44,519 --> 00:16:46,799
And even now with Sabonis, the answer might be no

368
00:16:46,879 --> 00:16:48,919
because Sabonis is up to his volume and his efficiency

369
00:16:48,919 --> 00:16:50,720
and the defense is still kind of just don't care.

370
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,960
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's it's interesting. So I look to get

371
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:55,720
back to the series before we move on. Is there

372
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,840
anything that I kind of went into this saying, like, well,

373
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,440
our priors have mostly been firm. Is there anything on

374
00:17:01,519 --> 00:17:05,079
either side of Rockets Warriors that has been surprising to you,

375
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,039
like any player performance or any of the like dynamics

376
00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:10,279
between the two teams, Because to me, it's just like

377
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,759
this is roughly what I thought we were gonna get.

378
00:17:13,279 --> 00:17:15,720
Speaker 1: I don't think I've been shocked. I've been probably pleasantly

379
00:17:15,759 --> 00:17:18,920
surprised for the most part by Moses Moody's play And

380
00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:21,200
were you We've talked about this a little bit, and

381
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,759
I'm not saying he deserved it, but Jonathan Amenka is

382
00:17:23,799 --> 00:17:25,960
not being in the rotation to open up the series

383
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,039
before the injuries kind of hit. Is that? And did

384
00:17:29,079 --> 00:17:31,200
you see anything from him in game two that made

385
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:32,680
you think that was the wrong decision.

386
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,319
Speaker 2: I think he had to play in game two, like

387
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,839
that was the time to try it, because just if

388
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,319
your argument, which the Warriors and Kurr have made, is

389
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,039
that he doesn't fit well with Butler, it's like, well,

390
00:17:42,079 --> 00:17:45,240
Butler's out. So if that was the reason, then you

391
00:17:45,279 --> 00:17:47,160
have you sort of have to play him, and they

392
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,920
needed bodies, and in theory he's someone that could create offense.

393
00:17:50,559 --> 00:17:52,480
But then he just goes out and like, I don't know,

394
00:17:52,559 --> 00:17:55,599
it's everybody's really kind of piled on. But he really

395
00:17:55,599 --> 00:17:58,440
did just show you why he hasn't been relied on,

396
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,640
you know, just make a mistake holding the ball, missing

397
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,160
easy passes, like just defensively, like not being able to

398
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,400
stay in front of guys, which is kind of unfathomable

399
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:12,920
just given his physical tools. So yeah, I I was

400
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,319
not surprised that that's I was hopeful that maybe he

401
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,759
would be motivated and give you good kaminga in game two,

402
00:18:18,799 --> 00:18:21,799
but he just really gave you the opposite. So yeah,

403
00:18:21,799 --> 00:18:23,519
I don't know, it's it's not that interesting to say,

404
00:18:23,559 --> 00:18:27,160
but this this series has gone pretty much as expected,

405
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,559
except for the Warriors losing like two of the three

406
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,559
primary shot creators that they had in the same game.

407
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,480
And like they did fight, they stuck in it like

408
00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:40,279
as well as could have been expected. But that was

409
00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:44,519
just if it's just Steph Man, that's their easy to guard. Like,

410
00:18:44,599 --> 00:18:47,519
it's just that's there's you know, as great as stuff is,

411
00:18:47,599 --> 00:18:50,720
like with Kevon Looney and Gary Payton the second and

412
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:55,039
and Moody like who refuses to take you know, tough shots,

413
00:18:54,799 --> 00:18:59,400
it's just they don't have nearly enough this Post though, well,

414
00:18:59,519 --> 00:19:02,319
Quentin Post did get some threes up Dan, I mean,

415
00:19:02,839 --> 00:19:04,920
he just he's got a long way to go, you know,

416
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,359
defensively and stuff. I still think he's gonna be a player.

417
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,559
But it's just if Butler has to be like pretty

418
00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:14,920
close to himself, I think for the Warriors to not

419
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,839
just probably lose both of these next couple games, and

420
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,559
it's just this is the story of the team all year.

421
00:19:21,599 --> 00:19:23,200
If it's just Steph, they're easy to beat.

422
00:19:23,759 --> 00:19:25,640
Speaker 1: I think this is the series, not that I feel

423
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,720
like I have the least feel for, because actually feel

424
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:29,839
like I have a really good hold of it, except

425
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:31,559
the fact that a lot of the other series, I

426
00:19:31,559 --> 00:19:34,119
feel like my priors have changed, right, I feel they've

427
00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,799
been illuminating in some way, and this series, for me,

428
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:37,960
is not one of them. And I think the other

429
00:19:38,039 --> 00:19:40,000
one is not. The next one up as we move on,

430
00:19:40,079 --> 00:19:42,920
I think it might be. No, it's not Lakers, Timberwolves

431
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:44,640
is gonna be I pick where It's like, like, I

432
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,200
kind of like the first two games. You kind of

433
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:47,720
understand what happens. You have a good hold on it,

434
00:19:47,759 --> 00:19:51,119
but it hasn't illuminated anything. The Clippers and Nuggets Grant,

435
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,079
I would argue, was illuminated just a whole bunch about

436
00:19:55,079 --> 00:19:57,759
these two teams. You picked, but didn't you pick? You

437
00:19:57,799 --> 00:19:58,839
picked the Nuggets in six?

438
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,279
Speaker 2: I think I picked, No, get pick Nuggets in seven? Okay,

439
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:04,880
I think I picked Nuggets. I know that.

440
00:20:05,079 --> 00:20:07,119
Speaker 1: How is that prediction feeling at the moment.

441
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,839
Speaker 2: Well, it always rested on Jokic is so good. I

442
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,240
can't pick against him, like more than any other factor.

443
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,599
And Jokic is still there. And then he triple doubles

444
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,440
and goes nine to fourteen from the field, and the

445
00:20:19,519 --> 00:20:22,599
Nuggets are not in that game. Talking about game was

446
00:20:22,599 --> 00:20:26,519
at Game three, so that may not be enough just

447
00:20:26,599 --> 00:20:30,359
him him being as great as he is. Yeah, we

448
00:20:31,039 --> 00:20:33,000
knew the Clippers. I mean they did it at the

449
00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:35,319
end of the regular season. They looked this good, and

450
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:36,839
they had a stretch earlier in the year where they

451
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:41,039
looked this good, and this shouldn't be surprising. The defense

452
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,200
is totally legit. If Kawhi Leonard is this Kawhi Leonard,

453
00:20:44,279 --> 00:20:47,759
especially Game two. I mean nobody is Game two Kawhi Leonard,

454
00:20:47,759 --> 00:20:50,400
but if he's close to that, they're just like, I

455
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,960
don't know what you pick at. They haven't been able

456
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,839
to the Nuggets haven't been able to play Chris dunnoff

457
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,960
the floor, so he gets to run around and cause trouble,

458
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,000
and you know, watching him.

459
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,440
Speaker 1: Play defense counts as a form of cardio, like he's

460
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:02,000
watching it.

461
00:21:02,559 --> 00:21:05,680
Speaker 2: So so yeah, I think I wouldn't say like I

462
00:21:05,799 --> 00:21:07,920
underrated the Clippers because it was very scared of him.

463
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:12,160
I just maybe overrated like Jokic good Win series, like

464
00:21:12,279 --> 00:21:15,839
as a as an argument, but yeah, they look so good.

465
00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:18,160
The Clippers do and and if the Nuggets now with

466
00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:20,960
mpga's shoulder thing and Russ, well, I don't know if

467
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,799
we can talk. We need to talk about Russ probably

468
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:25,240
at some point, but like the Nuggets just don't have

469
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,200
enough other guys like they just the Clippers are deeper,

470
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,640
they're better both ways, Like I don't know what you

471
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,960
do if yogic isn't great and he doesn't get help.

472
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I wanted to note the two things that

473
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,759
I think I actually this series is, I guess not

474
00:21:39,799 --> 00:21:41,839
boggled my mind, but I thought more about it than

475
00:21:41,839 --> 00:21:43,759
I thought I was going to. But the two things

476
00:21:43,759 --> 00:21:46,920
that I think have really stood out here is one

477
00:21:47,279 --> 00:21:49,880
on the Clipper side, like Kawai has just been he

478
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,960
had like a pedestrian Game three. I guess you could

479
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,160
say that's because they were They just like blew the

480
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,880
doors off the Nuggets. But he is grant, he's shooting

481
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,319
sixteen of eighteen in the paint and restricted area for

482
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,720
the series. That's eighty eight point nine percent, and he's

483
00:22:02,759 --> 00:22:05,160
at nine of ten on in the paint twos that

484
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,680
are outside of the restricted area. They've been able to

485
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,079
insulate him a little bit defensively, but like he can

486
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,920
still be that. This is just like, yeah, it's you know,

487
00:22:14,039 --> 00:22:16,319
he can't do this for when you combine playoffs and

488
00:22:16,319 --> 00:22:17,720
regular season. No, he's never gonna be able to do

489
00:22:17,759 --> 00:22:20,160
this for seventy games a year. But like this is

490
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,519
just when when Kawhi is Kawhi, Like there are pockets

491
00:22:23,559 --> 00:22:25,640
of time maybe call him a sixteen game player now

492
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,799
that he can just be one of the three best

493
00:22:27,799 --> 00:22:29,039
players in the world.

494
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 2: And like we're in we're in one of those pockets

495
00:22:31,799 --> 00:22:33,880
right now, because it's not just like this shot making

496
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,000
is insane, like that he's been that accurate, and it's

497
00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:39,640
like how many of those have been uncontested, Like there

498
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,559
guys are I mean, he's barely getting these over guys fingertips,

499
00:22:42,559 --> 00:22:44,599
which is like a shot he wants. So it's not like, oh,

500
00:22:44,599 --> 00:22:47,599
that's a bad shot, Like Kawai just makes those heavily contested,

501
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,440
tough pull up twos that he just creates out of nothing,

502
00:22:50,759 --> 00:22:52,759
which which is like, man, if you could pick a

503
00:22:52,839 --> 00:22:55,240
singular skill for an offensive player in the playoffs, that

504
00:22:55,279 --> 00:22:59,039
might just be it. He's moving great, like he's he's

505
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,880
and we mean we're never gonna see like ten years ago,

506
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,279
Kawhi defensively because that guy was maybe as good as

507
00:23:05,279 --> 00:23:09,279
a perimeter defender can be. But he I don't I

508
00:23:09,279 --> 00:23:12,160
can't remember when he's looked like this, spry, this, this

509
00:23:12,319 --> 00:23:16,079
like mobile, and so unless unless like there's something acute

510
00:23:16,079 --> 00:23:18,400
that's gonna happen with one of those knees or whatever,

511
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,240
it like, it doesn't feel like to me. It doesn't

512
00:23:22,279 --> 00:23:24,480
feel like past playoff runs where it's like, man, he's

513
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,400
still getting it done, but he's not moving great and

514
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,400
you're just waiting for the nice horness thing to happen.

515
00:23:29,839 --> 00:23:32,319
It just like, he just looks better than he's looked

516
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:33,200
in a really long time.

517
00:23:33,519 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 1: Do you think that's a potential But you just made

518
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,839
me think of this, that that's a potential benefit of

519
00:23:37,839 --> 00:23:40,119
the direction they took this roster, which just that his

520
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,799
defensive workload is so much lighter right overall, Like even

521
00:23:43,839 --> 00:23:45,400
if you're looking at throughout the regular season, that is

522
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,000
it less likely for something to happen then because you're

523
00:23:48,079 --> 00:23:50,799
and even like his offensive role is not like it

524
00:23:50,839 --> 00:23:53,200
can be cumbersome at points, but like they've just like

525
00:23:53,559 --> 00:23:55,160
look at how they ran their offense for most of

526
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,119
the regular season, which he did miss a good portion

527
00:23:57,599 --> 00:23:59,680
of it. So we've all talked about like, oh, maybe

528
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,759
it's he he needs to be load managed, but it's

529
00:24:01,799 --> 00:24:04,160
more about in game load management than it is about

530
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,400
actually giving him rest off the floor.

531
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 2: Well, and even in this series, there's long stretches where

532
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,240
Kauhi is like not super involved because Harden's like third

533
00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:15,519
I think in touch time behind Brunson and Kate in

534
00:24:15,559 --> 00:24:18,039
the playoffs. So Harden's still doing hard and stuff. And

535
00:24:18,319 --> 00:24:22,240
Harden looks pretty freaking good too, So Kawai can just

536
00:24:22,319 --> 00:24:25,319
like take three minutes off if the Clippers need him

537
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,559
to and be on the floor and like have all

538
00:24:27,559 --> 00:24:30,160
the gravity impacts and all this other stuff that he

539
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,160
does just by being out there. But yeah, the Clippers

540
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,160
are This was a team like that just made no

541
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,400
sense to me before the season, and now it all

542
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,039
like it all looks like pretty well thought out. Like

543
00:24:41,519 --> 00:24:44,759
the way they're constructed makes sense specifically for what you're

544
00:24:44,759 --> 00:24:48,279
talking about, which is like maximizing these little chunks of

545
00:24:48,319 --> 00:24:50,599
time where Kawhi might be able to just be the

546
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,839
best player in the world or something close to it.

547
00:24:53,519 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 1: And the other thing with them, I think of each

548
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,319
a zoo botch has done a good job. I feel

549
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,200
like making Jokic second guess about like going in to

550
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,920
the paint. Yeah, it feels like he's settling for more

551
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,559
of like those in between jumpers than maybe he even

552
00:25:05,599 --> 00:25:08,559
normally would. But the thing that I think Tylo did

553
00:25:08,559 --> 00:25:12,519
a great job of is you're pulling Zoo earlier so

554
00:25:12,519 --> 00:25:15,000
that he gets more minutes on the floor without yokicch

555
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,160
and the Clippers have so far destroyed the Nuggets during

556
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,240
that time. There are plus eleven and twelve minutes when

557
00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:23,680
Zoo plays without Yoke, and that's a fifty eight point

558
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,480
seven net rating. It's like, again, small pocket of time.

559
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,599
They have a twenty like Peyton Watson's been pretty damaging

560
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,519
this series. They have a twenty nine point five net

561
00:25:32,599 --> 00:25:35,079
rating when Zoo plays with Watson on the floor, and

562
00:25:35,079 --> 00:25:37,640
at twenty three and a half net rating specifically when

563
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,920
if the Nuggets aren't going small like DeAndre Jordan and

564
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,000
Zoo have played ten minutes without Yoker on the court

565
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,920
this series, and so I think that's a smart adjustment

566
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,079
by Tylo, and it gives you just an advantage during

567
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:48,960
these times when Yokic isn't the court where you're always

568
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,240
gonna theoretically have an advantage, but it feels like you're

569
00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:54,279
optimizing it and it sort of leads me into my

570
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,759
question was just like, what is the button that Denver

571
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,799
pushes here? Because is there even in one you can

572
00:25:59,839 --> 00:26:02,319
tell talk about the Russ stuff, the MPGA injury, which

573
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,480
all right, I get it from the shooting perspective when

574
00:26:04,519 --> 00:26:06,240
you're looking at a shoulder, but his defense has been

575
00:26:06,279 --> 00:26:08,640
dog shit. Yeah, and then Christian Brown has been bad,

576
00:26:09,079 --> 00:26:11,599
Peyton Watson has been bad. I think Jamal Murray has

577
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,640
been buying large fine yo kic. I saw that isn't

578
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,279
there doesn't this feel cyclical? Everyone? Oh, Yokich needs to

579
00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:19,519
be more aggressive, And I'm in my head, I'm like, yeah,

580
00:26:19,559 --> 00:26:21,599
he could take like forty shots a game if he

581
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,079
wanted to, and he'd be hyper efficient. I just don't

582
00:26:24,079 --> 00:26:25,599
know if that's gonna make I'm at the point where

583
00:26:25,599 --> 00:26:27,480
I don't know what can the Nuggets do to make

584
00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:28,720
a difference in this series.

585
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's well, there isn't like some guy deeper in

586
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,759
the rotation that, oh if we just play him more

587
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:36,880
or if he does that, like.

588
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,279
Speaker 1: You don't pick it is on the roster.

589
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,759
Speaker 2: R Well, I maybe this is a good time to

590
00:26:41,759 --> 00:26:43,680
talk about Well, my answer to your question is, I

591
00:26:43,839 --> 00:26:45,519
don't see it. I think it's to play better button.

592
00:26:45,559 --> 00:26:47,599
It's like Murray has a has a good Murray game.

593
00:26:48,079 --> 00:26:49,880
The Nuggets kind of get loose in the two man

594
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,799
Jokich Murray game, and they the Clippers have guarded that

595
00:26:53,039 --> 00:26:55,319
like as well as you can really, like you know,

596
00:26:55,559 --> 00:26:59,039
Russ being on the floor makes that easy. But like

597
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,279
I just it needs to be the principles because like

598
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,920
I don't think I don't think Porter's got it and

599
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,519
he's hurt, so some excuse there, but he just you know,

600
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,880
he just isn't someone I would count on. Like he's

601
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,960
not gonna give you he's not gonna win him a

602
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:13,759
game by going for forty. Like I don't, I don't

603
00:27:13,799 --> 00:27:16,559
see that happening. Watch him, watch him do it. But

604
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,599
it's there's no there's no trick. It's just that That's

605
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,680
why this was always like a scary series because I

606
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,559
was just relying on Jokic being great and figuring everything out,

607
00:27:25,799 --> 00:27:27,480
and the Clippers I think are maybe a little too

608
00:27:27,519 --> 00:27:33,279
good and balanced to be figured out like consistently. The Russ.

609
00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:35,119
We gotta talk about Russ a little bit because like

610
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,039
so it was Game one, he hits the three to

611
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,160
tie it. Uh, he knocks the ball out on the

612
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,960
Clippers last you know chance. But prior to that, there

613
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,240
were like six we haven't talked about this, everybody else has.

614
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,880
They were like six different times, different times where Russ

615
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,319
like tried to lose the Nuggets the game, just like

616
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,480
with insane drives at the wrong time.

617
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,519
Speaker 1: Kofe on what he said on Blue Cup where Russell

618
00:27:57,519 --> 00:27:59,960
Westbrook is a living embodiment of the question mark box

619
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:00,759
Mario Kart.

620
00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well it's that what's the worst thing you get,

621
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,519
and you get at least something good? Usually like the

622
00:28:09,559 --> 00:28:11,960
worst thing, the lamest thing is what like the banana peel.

623
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: I mean, like I always found the like the fake

624
00:28:15,319 --> 00:28:19,839
question mark boxes. Okay, maybe he a fake question mark box,

625
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,480
the upside down question mark because it looks like something

626
00:28:22,519 --> 00:28:25,319
good but then you crash into it and you explode.

627
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like the we can we gotta workshop this.

628
00:28:30,039 --> 00:28:34,519
There's something here. But just like he he he made

629
00:28:34,599 --> 00:28:38,759
impact plays, especially in game one, game two, like it

630
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,519
just and then game three he gets hurt or he

631
00:28:40,519 --> 00:28:42,200
has the foot thing and doesn't play the second half.

632
00:28:42,279 --> 00:28:45,400
But there's so many possessions where he's the guy in

633
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,400
the corner that Jokic because he's Jokic has to pass

634
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,359
to because he's wide open and he just like can't

635
00:28:50,359 --> 00:28:53,400
not make that pass. You have to and the Clippers

636
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,079
have to just be every time Russ takes a wide

637
00:28:56,079 --> 00:29:00,480
open three, they're like, fantastic, we great possession, fellas, Like

638
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:03,200
we did it. Like because even if he shoots forty

639
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,680
percent on wide open threes, which you just couldn't get

640
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,839
that stat. You couldn't get away from that stat on

641
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,480
all the broadcasts, Like that's still a win because he's

642
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,359
still gonna do ten ridiculous like over aggressive things. He's

643
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,039
gonna take bad shots. I just he's gonna make defensive mistakes.

644
00:29:18,079 --> 00:29:20,680
Like the bottom line of it for me is like

645
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,319
he's way, way too important to Denver, and that's kind

646
00:29:24,359 --> 00:29:27,519
of why Denver is in trouble, Like he matters a

647
00:29:27,559 --> 00:29:31,480
lot and he really could just lose you games, and

648
00:29:31,599 --> 00:29:33,640
like they don't have a great alternative, you know.

649
00:29:34,359 --> 00:29:37,559
Speaker 1: I don't you said the play better button, And there's

650
00:29:37,839 --> 00:29:40,319
I think there's some evidence that's that's true because Denver

651
00:29:40,359 --> 00:29:42,559
has a fifty one to eight effective field goal percentage

652
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:44,839
on wide open jumpers in this series, and you have

653
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,559
to credit the Clippers just for like Chris Dunn I said,

654
00:29:47,599 --> 00:29:49,240
I wasn't kidding, like you watch him, he's so for

655
00:29:49,319 --> 00:29:52,200
Netek on that end, But they shot fifty six point six.

656
00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:53,920
They had an effect field grade of fifty six point

657
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,440
six on wide open jumpers during the regular season. You'll

658
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,000
get his shot quality has dropped precipitously when you look

659
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,279
at the numbers. Again I mentioned I think Zoo has

660
00:30:01,319 --> 00:30:03,000
actually been a part of that. So there is a

661
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,160
little bit of the play beetter button. And I don't

662
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,480
want to overreact too much to Game three because we

663
00:30:07,599 --> 00:30:09,480
like this happened with Minnesota a little bit last year

664
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,839
where it looked like, yep, oh, Denver's totally fucked in

665
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,839
that series goes not only as it go to seven,

666
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,720
but it looked like they were gonna win Game seven

667
00:30:15,759 --> 00:30:19,680
pretty handedly at one point. I just don't I haven't

668
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,319
seen a lot of evidence. I guess if you just

669
00:30:21,359 --> 00:30:23,880
point back to the two games like they were Kawhi

670
00:30:24,079 --> 00:30:26,480
has this nuclear game in game two and like the

671
00:30:26,559 --> 00:30:28,559
Nuggets were still in a position to win it. So

672
00:30:28,599 --> 00:30:30,960
there is like still that in the back of my head.

673
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,359
But this team just looks is it a stretch? They

674
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,319
just look defeated, And maybe it's they're banged up to

675
00:30:37,359 --> 00:30:39,400
the point and defeated, but I don't think I've ever

676
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,519
seen And part of this is, yeah, there was like

677
00:30:41,559 --> 00:30:44,680
a bleed, a slower bleed of talent and optionality here,

678
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:46,920
like some of the younger guys were supposed to be

679
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,160
able to pick up the slack, and it's Christian Brown

680
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,400
did a lot during the regular season not doing it

681
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,920
right now. Russell Westbrook can help you in these moments.

682
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,160
But it's the other Mario Card analog would be. You

683
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,240
know when you get the banana peels, it's like, oh,

684
00:30:58,440 --> 00:30:59,960
got something good, but you throw it forward and then

685
00:31:00,039 --> 00:31:01,039
you hit the banana peel.

686
00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 2: And out there you go. That's us, that's Russ.

687
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: So I don't I don't feel great about them in

688
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,920
this series. I had the did I pick the Clippers

689
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,079
in five? What did I pick the Clippers in six?

690
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,400
I might have picked them in five. I didn't feel

691
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,519
great about that after Game one actually, even though the

692
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,920
like the way that it went, But I this series

693
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,640
is tough. It just feels like this is sort of

694
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,039
a pivot point, like an inflection point. For the Nuggets

695
00:31:25,079 --> 00:31:26,319
and it's it's not good.

696
00:31:26,759 --> 00:31:29,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't have a lot to add

697
00:31:29,599 --> 00:31:33,440
to that. This is still I think this is still well,

698
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,039
there's a couple other ones. This is up there for

699
00:31:35,079 --> 00:31:37,799
the most interesting series so far, just if only because

700
00:31:37,799 --> 00:31:38,960
of the Kauwhi emergence.

701
00:31:39,079 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that's just terrifying. And like James Harden,

702
00:31:42,519 --> 00:31:44,680
we're not talking about James Harden not doing enough in

703
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:45,839
the playoffs. What's that? Right?

704
00:31:46,359 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 2: Where are we?

705
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: Well? Boy? Our next series? This has been for anyone

706
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,680
who's been paying attention to Nick Pistons, has been has

707
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,599
been quite the the journey. What are your thoughts on

708
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:56,119
this one?

709
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 2: Well, they've changed, they changed quite a bit. Uh, based

710
00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:04,000
on games three. What I was going to ask you, Well,

711
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,359
I have two questions actually, but my main thought, and

712
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,079
I guess I can form it into a question at

713
00:32:10,119 --> 00:32:12,440
the end of game two, did you find yourself thinking

714
00:32:13,079 --> 00:32:16,839
like and maybe you think this all the time, but

715
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,680
I found myself and I wondered if you did thinking like,

716
00:32:20,279 --> 00:32:25,920
do the Knicks just not have enough offensive creativity, like

717
00:32:26,079 --> 00:32:31,519
tactically or like personnel wise, yes to really make a difference?

718
00:32:31,759 --> 00:32:32,759
Speaker 1: Yes? Right?

719
00:32:33,039 --> 00:32:35,759
Speaker 2: And then Game three Cat gets involved, Like Brunson still

720
00:32:35,799 --> 00:32:38,000
pounds the ball out, but you get twenty plus from

721
00:32:38,039 --> 00:32:40,559
I think did Og and Bridges both have twenty or

722
00:32:41,039 --> 00:32:43,400
they had they had like oh, I was like fairly

723
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,720
well rounded. I mean, like the look of it was

724
00:32:45,759 --> 00:32:49,319
similar because Brunson's just got the ball forever, but like

725
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,759
there was enough supplementary scoring that I wanted to walk

726
00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:54,759
that back a little bit. But that was like my

727
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,119
main takeaway through the first two games. And I don't

728
00:32:57,119 --> 00:32:59,680
know if it's wise to just dump it after game three,

729
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,160
because you know, some of the symptoms were still there.

730
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,519
But but I your that's that's your take is that

731
00:33:04,599 --> 00:33:07,079
like they just it can't just be brunts and and

732
00:33:07,079 --> 00:33:08,720
it can't just be this uninventive.

733
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,079
Speaker 1: I think it's take we shared coming out of the

734
00:33:12,119 --> 00:33:14,680
offseason when we still haven't seen this. But you cannot

735
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,480
surrender control of seven first round picks and then still

736
00:33:18,519 --> 00:33:21,759
not have a clear cut second advantage creator.

737
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,279
Speaker 2: I love that term. I love advantage creator as a

738
00:33:24,359 --> 00:33:26,519
term because that that that covers a lot of ground.

739
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: And however you want to branch it out, like it's

740
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,359
it's not just being able to generate your own shot,

741
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,200
it's just putting defenses in rotation, setting up plays for

742
00:33:33,279 --> 00:33:37,319
other others. You've seen players like mchal Bridges, even Josh

743
00:33:37,319 --> 00:33:40,279
hard O g A Andobi Towns pain Camera Payne do

744
00:33:40,319 --> 00:33:44,160
it in small board even sometimes extended drips and drabs.

745
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,839
They just don't have that guy. So I'm pretty this

746
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,279
is one of the things I probably would always defend

747
00:33:49,319 --> 00:33:51,039
Jalen Brunton. I saw a lot of he's the hardest

748
00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:53,119
player to watch in the NBA, and that just feels

749
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,440
like maybe my knicks goggles are on there. I think

750
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,920
it's there's Nick Chan who can't agree. Like the stuff

751
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,559
he does is egregious, even off the balls sometimes, but

752
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,039
like that's part of his value is being able to

753
00:34:04,119 --> 00:34:06,319
draw those calls. But I don't find him to be

754
00:34:06,319 --> 00:34:08,760
the most unwatchable player in the league. What I will

755
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,159
push back against even more aggressively is, yes, he's been

756
00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:15,239
part of the problem, and I saw people clipping plays

757
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:16,840
of like, well, he had Towns open here and didn't

758
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,480
pass it. There's a reason that his crunch time workload

759
00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:22,480
was one of the highest over the last three decades

760
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:26,000
this past season, and it's not because he can't play differently.

761
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,800
We saw him play differently in Dallas. It's because the

762
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,239
Knicks aren't built to play him differently. And I'm not

763
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,280
gonna sit here and defend Tom Thibodeau. Do I think

764
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,440
he's the right coach for this team? No? Am I

765
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,800
a Tom Thibodau apologist. I don't think I've ever once

766
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,920
really been a Tom Thibodeau apologist. But what else there

767
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,280
adjustments that he could make? And if they lose this series,

768
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:47,960
I think he will share a ton of blame. There

769
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,280
is nothing that he can do to make them measure

770
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,360
up to Boston or Cleveland or some of these maybe

771
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,000
these other teams in the West. And I think that's

772
00:34:56,039 --> 00:34:59,079
I've seen as someone in Blue Sky was getting annoyed

773
00:34:59,079 --> 00:35:01,760
with me saying I was partic acting Tom Thibodeau. Whereas

774
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,079
like if Kenny Atkinson was the coach of this team,

775
00:35:04,119 --> 00:35:06,800
here's two points on that. One, Kenny Akinson is the

776
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,320
coach of another team, So you don't get to say,

777
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,000
what if we had a coach who's already coaching another team. Two,

778
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,199
I would push back that you give Kenny Atkinson this

779
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,119
he's working with what two? Three good above average advantage

780
00:35:18,159 --> 00:35:19,920
creators When you look at what Evan Mobley's done this

781
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,039
year in Cleveland. The Knicks don't have that. You don't

782
00:35:23,079 --> 00:35:26,000
get to say, yes, they got Karl Anthony Towns more involved.

783
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,760
One of my quibbles would be because we're married, because

784
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,119
the Knicks are married to Josh Hart, still not enough

785
00:35:31,119 --> 00:35:33,599
one to five pick and rolls. And even when you

786
00:35:33,639 --> 00:35:36,199
got Tobias Harrison foul trouble, you still didn't go to

787
00:35:36,199 --> 00:35:37,719
the one five pick and roll when you move Jalen

788
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,440
during back to Towns. So there's room, there's room, there's

789
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,239
adjustments that Tims Cannon should make. But this has been

790
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,400
the Karl Anthony Towns motif throughout his entire career is that, yes,

791
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,239
you can blame some of it on the coaching, some

792
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,599
of it on the primary ball handler like Jalen bruns In.

793
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,719
He fades, and that's fine. He's still a fantastic player,

794
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,840
but he is not even when you look at these

795
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,159
gaudy offensive numbers, he's not someone that is going to

796
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,320
drive advantage creation for you game in and game out

797
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,400
over the course of a little like, never mind a

798
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,199
regular season, an entire postseason campaign. That has never been

799
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,599
McHale Bridges's game on the ball at least, he's always

800
00:36:12,639 --> 00:36:14,800
going to like he got some better like on ball,

801
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,679
looks at the rim in Game three, those things coming go,

802
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,079
like if he's on the ball, he's gonna look to

803
00:36:19,079 --> 00:36:20,920
Snake's green, He's gonna pull up like that's what he

804
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,800
looks to do. He can't do it at the level

805
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,559
that Brunson can, and so I do get annoyed sometimes

806
00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:27,440
when it feels like Brunson is taking on too much

807
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,800
or not moving the ball around enough. He is the

808
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,639
only player on this the Knicks. His teammates ranked in

809
00:36:33,639 --> 00:36:37,599
the fourth percentileed half court shock creation this year. That's like, Yeah,

810
00:36:37,599 --> 00:36:38,079
that's shitty.

811
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,639
Speaker 2: That that says it right there. That's that's the situation.

812
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,079
Speaker 1: Basically, It's not because Brunton can't play in an environment

813
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,519
that where you have better half court creators. It's that

814
00:36:46,559 --> 00:36:49,599
the Knicks they identified, they assigned. It's not even the

815
00:36:49,599 --> 00:36:51,360
by the way, it's not even the Towns trade. And

816
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,960
I'm not even laying this that honestly, it's the fault

817
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,719
of the front office because you assigned X amount of

818
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,679
value to acquiring McHale Bridges. You don't get to give

819
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,239
up that much pick equity and then turn around and say,

820
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,400
look for all Julius Randall's flaws during the regular season,

821
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,039
he's a facsimile of that advantage creator. We kind of

822
00:37:08,079 --> 00:37:10,039
even saw moments for the Timberwolves in Game two where

823
00:37:10,039 --> 00:37:11,960
he was that. I still he wasn't the answer, So

824
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,719
I don't want to get hung up on that. But

825
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,400
you gave up all that pick equity, plus your second

826
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,000
offensive option and the separate trade without getting a clear cut,

827
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,360
above average, reliable advantage creator in there. That is the

828
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,599
cardinal sin of the front office. And that is the

829
00:37:25,599 --> 00:37:27,840
biggest flaw of this team. And until they fix it,

830
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,800
this is all they're gonna be. Like, this is it.

831
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,119
And I still think they could make no adjustments and

832
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,239
they might still beat the Pistons, who we do we

833
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:37,760
need to talk about a little bit. They've been like

834
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:39,800
they've been fun as hell to watch like that is

835
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,440
the fatal flaw of this team. And until they fix it,

836
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:43,719
and I don't know if they can when you look

837
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,719
at their assets and their their cap situation, like it's

838
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,960
not it's not just a Tom Timbodau might be a problem.

839
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,800
And here's why I'll close it. He might be a problem,

840
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,039
he is not the problem.

841
00:37:52,639 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 2: Do you two questions one and the second one will

842
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,199
get us back to the Pistons a little bit. One

843
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,119
do you do you do? You would? You say it's

844
00:38:00,159 --> 00:38:04,280
fair though, to argue that OG kind of emerging as

845
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,760
a much more like high usage creator during Brunson's injury

846
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,280
at least like hints at the possibility that, like maybe

847
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,159
the personnel is here to play differently and it is

848
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,559
really just TIBs or it is Brunson that wants to

849
00:38:17,599 --> 00:38:20,679
play a certain way. Now, Like that feels like a

850
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,639
data point that runs against what you're saying. I think

851
00:38:22,679 --> 00:38:25,519
I generally agree with you because like, but like it

852
00:38:25,559 --> 00:38:29,079
does feel to me like with this group, you should

853
00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:33,519
be able to have more off ball movement, have a

854
00:38:33,559 --> 00:38:36,920
more dynamic egalitarian approach, like because it's not like Brunson

855
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,199
doesn't have off ball value. You know, it's not like

856
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,280
we have to put him on the ball because he

857
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,119
just stands around or he can't shoot, guys won't guard him.

858
00:38:44,159 --> 00:38:47,760
Like it feels like I think broadly, you're right. I

859
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,119
think there's like some toggling. You could move the sliders

860
00:38:51,199 --> 00:38:53,320
just a little bit to where like OG creates a

861
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,199
little bit against certain matchups, or like there's just more dynamism.

862
00:38:56,599 --> 00:38:58,239
And again we're like talking about a team that had

863
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,679
a great offense during the regular season. The bottom line

864
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,480
is the offense is good. But like I feel like

865
00:39:03,519 --> 00:39:06,599
there's just there's some money left on the table, like tactically,

866
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,239
I don't know, maybe and og being like, oh my god,

867
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,039
look at all this career, look at the scoring load

868
00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:14,599
he's should like but it feels like a sign.

869
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,119
Speaker 1: Maybe, Yeah, I think you're right that there's definitely money

870
00:39:18,159 --> 00:39:20,199
left on the table if you were to change the coach.

871
00:39:20,519 --> 00:39:23,119
But what is like the ceiling of that, because if

872
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,920
like you know, you're the game three stretch where uh

873
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,599
Brunton and cat both weren't on the floor and they

874
00:39:28,599 --> 00:39:30,800
couldn't even get the he wasn't gonna catch it even

875
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,119
if they got it to him, but like they couldn't

876
00:39:32,119 --> 00:39:34,360
get the ball to a wide open like this team

877
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,360
just og Anoby might have increased his scoring, the depth

878
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,960
of his scoring arsenal, he's not like a positive playmaker.

879
00:39:41,119 --> 00:39:43,119
And it's like Josh Hart. He has some large rible

880
00:39:43,159 --> 00:39:45,280
playmaking to him, but defenses don't care what he's doing

881
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,320
because like his range, Yeah, with Michal Bridges, it's like

882
00:39:48,559 --> 00:39:51,320
he does a little bit of everything and like enough

883
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,320
of basically not enough of basically nothing. But you see

884
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,440
what I'm getting at there. Yeah, So I think the

885
00:39:56,519 --> 00:40:00,360
fact that they needed campaign to win Game one is

886
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,760
kind of just like a microcosm of just is that

887
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,039
really your second and it like it's on any given

888
00:40:05,119 --> 00:40:06,960
night it could be someone else, But that's not a

889
00:40:07,039 --> 00:40:08,960
role in the playoffs that it's Oh, it could be

890
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,760
someone else as maybe your number two scoring option. That's cool,

891
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,559
But in terms of creating advantages for others, there's nobody

892
00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:17,920
else on this team that consistently does that. Like even

893
00:40:18,119 --> 00:40:20,000
like the live dribble stuff with Towns, like it's cool

894
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,119
to see him be aggressive and even with oj Anobi,

895
00:40:22,199 --> 00:40:24,559
but like you look at Ojiananobe's handle and like that,

896
00:40:24,599 --> 00:40:26,079
like there's gonna be a cap and what he could

897
00:40:26,079 --> 00:40:27,960
do as a playmaker and even maybe as a scorer,

898
00:40:28,199 --> 00:40:30,320
and then Towns is just he's not like the best

899
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,679
live dribble playmaker. He's gonna do more of his damage

900
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,519
like operating in standstills from there. So my point is

901
00:40:35,519 --> 00:40:37,480
to say that they're a bad team or that they

902
00:40:37,519 --> 00:40:40,159
couldn't be better with a different coach. I just what

903
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,360
is the pathway aside from making a major change to

904
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:45,679
the personnel that they might not be able to do.

905
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,760
Like it's not even about Boston or Cleveland for me.

906
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:49,840
You put them against the Pacers in a series, and

907
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:50,840
I'm not gonna pick it to win.

908
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 2: Okay, I want to come back to what you're to

909
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,079
that point, but at first I want and you could

910
00:40:56,119 --> 00:40:58,079
say this, it still remind me. I have one question

911
00:40:58,119 --> 00:41:00,679
for you that we should probably close this discussion of

912
00:41:00,679 --> 00:41:04,960
this series with. You could do this with any series usually,

913
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,800
but there's a pretty easy pathway to this being three

914
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,360
to oh Pistons right now, like game one, Like the

915
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,119
Pistons fall apart right give up at what were they up?

916
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,039
Twenty one, give up a twenty one oh run and

917
00:41:17,119 --> 00:41:19,960
just lose a quarter and lose the game after probably

918
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,400
winning the first three, they do win game two, Game three,

919
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,800
Like I know, Hardaway was like seven to twelve from

920
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,719
three like he he probably, but you're gonna get one

921
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:31,199
of those from Hardaway in a series.

922
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:33,679
Speaker 1: By the way, it's never It's not like MALIEK. Beasley

923
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,880
had an off game, man, That's what I'm saying. Going off.

924
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,360
At the same time, Beasley was.

925
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,679
Speaker 2: Two for ten from three and like some of those

926
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,320
were good looks, like Beasley hits a couple of those.

927
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,280
It's and and the Pistons wheels don't fall if it's

928
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,719
three to zero like this. You know, sometimes that's like

929
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:51,920
a fool's errand to look at a series that way,

930
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,360
because like you know, the Knicks have the experience and

931
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,119
and it's just much easier to imagine the Pistons, you know,

932
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,480
looking a little green and falling apart, and the more

933
00:42:00,519 --> 00:42:03,639
experienced Knicks just winning that game one and that's what happens.

934
00:42:03,679 --> 00:42:06,480
But like and then Beasley, I don't know if I'm

935
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,280
an account on someone to make open threes. There's the

936
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,400
list is real short, and Beasley's on it, and he

937
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,400
didn't in game three. So I think this is that's

938
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,440
all a roundabout way of saying, like the Pistons are

939
00:42:16,599 --> 00:42:19,840
in this series like from a from a like competitive standpoint,

940
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,360
clearly from like a we're here to be chippy standpoint,

941
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,119
like they're very much like they understand. I think the

942
00:42:26,159 --> 00:42:29,159
Pistons view this series as like we should be winning it.

943
00:42:29,519 --> 00:42:32,000
And and I think that's partly like just youth and

944
00:42:32,039 --> 00:42:35,079
whatever and their whole culture, but like it's also because

945
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,440
like Kate, Cunningham is a real problem, Like it is

946
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,719
hard to make things hard for him. The Knicks have

947
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,760
done a pretty good job of it. But like I'm

948
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,119
coming away from this series even though it's been uneven

949
00:42:46,159 --> 00:42:51,559
for him in some facets, like I think he's I'm

950
00:42:51,679 --> 00:42:54,760
ready to admit like I have underrated his assent because

951
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,400
like he on both ends has had moments where it's

952
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,559
like he looks like the guy and I knows fans

953
00:43:00,559 --> 00:43:03,039
are like, yeah, where have you been? But I always

954
00:43:03,039 --> 00:43:06,320
withhold judgment until we see playoff stuff. And he's shown

955
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,559
enough as like a creator against the defense designed to

956
00:43:09,559 --> 00:43:12,960
stop him, and as like a real defensive competitor against

957
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,960
like physicality and tough matchups like he and you just

958
00:43:17,039 --> 00:43:19,920
add to that, you add just a bunch of good

959
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,400
wings that can defend like Ron Holland was frigging here

960
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,239
for it in Game three, like he's.

961
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:26,039
Speaker 1: Gonna give me a heart attack at some point in

962
00:43:26,079 --> 00:43:27,079
the playoffs.

963
00:43:27,119 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: He's a mess, but like, man is he out there

964
00:43:29,039 --> 00:43:32,360
to fight? And and Thompson's same thing. I just the

965
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,920
Pistons are pretty real like and this team, well, maybe

966
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:37,559
I'll just add unless you have something to add to that.

967
00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:40,199
I want to ask you before we leave this series.

968
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:48,559
You get to have pick one Detroit's current roster, contract statuses, finances,

969
00:43:48,599 --> 00:43:53,760
picks and the Knicks same thing. And you're just trying

970
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,079
to be the best team you can be next year

971
00:43:56,079 --> 00:43:58,159
in the year after. It's a two year window, so

972
00:43:58,199 --> 00:44:00,320
we're not going to be like, well the Pistons, roo's

973
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:01,880
you know, it's gonna be a five year thing. It's

974
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,960
just you have their resources and talent. You're trying to

975
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,360
win in twenty five, twenty six and twenty six twenty

976
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,960
seven or the Knicks. Which which are you taking?

977
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 1: I still lean Knicks, but it's closer than it should

978
00:44:12,519 --> 00:44:14,800
be because it's not like Detroit has a bunch of

979
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:16,920
extra first round picks aside from the room they could

980
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,400
throw and unless and like if part of the appeals,

981
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,800
if they they're not going to get a major free agent,

982
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,079
and so it's all right, well, what is the trade

983
00:44:23,079 --> 00:44:24,719
that because we're still kind of waiting on Jade and

984
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,599
ivy Ron Hollin's not a finished product? Do you have

985
00:44:27,639 --> 00:44:30,239
to move a sar Thompson to get that next guy?

986
00:44:30,639 --> 00:44:33,679
But it's because of Kaid, which to add the only

987
00:44:33,679 --> 00:44:35,239
two things I would add to what you would, because

988
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:36,360
I did have a question to ask you. But the

989
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,519
thing about Kid too, and I think this helped, Like

990
00:44:38,519 --> 00:44:40,360
the Dennis Shrewder trade is kind of proven to be.

991
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 2: Like shrew Like has been so important to them. He's

992
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:45,679
made so many big shots.

993
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,679
Speaker 1: His defense too, like just like the Lake, he gets

994
00:44:47,679 --> 00:44:49,480
his body low and like it's put like the Knicks

995
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,519
no team, like the Pisons are allowing the smallest share

996
00:44:52,559 --> 00:44:54,480
of jumpers to come wide open in this series as

997
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,519
anyone in the playoffs. The Knicks are not shooting well

998
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,159
on those looks either, but like to allow only fourteen

999
00:44:59,159 --> 00:45:01,920
point two percent of the Nick jumpers to be wide open,

1000
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,199
big deal. Like they're just physical and they can make

1001
00:45:04,199 --> 00:45:07,000
the closeouts. But with Shrewder what they were also able

1002
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,159
to do. And I think this actually speaks to yeh Shrewder.

1003
00:45:09,199 --> 00:45:12,360
But also Kid is like towards the end of the

1004
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,519
game or they were just stretches where it's like they're

1005
00:45:14,599 --> 00:45:16,960
putting Kate away from the action because they don't want

1006
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:18,800
if it's og on him, they don't. They don't really

1007
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,280
mkel Bridges did a better job on Kid. I don't

1008
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,840
think the Pistons respect Mchael Bridges as a defender because

1009
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,840
I don't see this as much like what it's og

1010
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,320
An Andobe. It's we would rather take og An Andobi

1011
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,480
out of the play and like leave Kid is sort

1012
00:45:30,519 --> 00:45:32,480
of like a decoy or a spacer, and then we'll

1013
00:45:32,519 --> 00:45:34,639
have Dennis Shrewder operate. It doesn't always end well, but

1014
00:45:34,679 --> 00:45:37,159
I'm like, that's like really smart because you look at

1015
00:45:37,159 --> 00:45:39,360
the way that this Knicks defense could break down. But

1016
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,440
what I wanted to ask you about. I know they're

1017
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,920
dealing with the Isaiah Stewart injury, but would you have

1018
00:45:44,079 --> 00:45:47,239
gone they like they immediately pivoted back to Jayalen duran

1019
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,880
on Kat and the Knicks didn't really make them pay

1020
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,360
for it a ton, But like can they I understand

1021
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,519
not wanting to risk getting Kid in foul trouble too,

1022
00:45:54,559 --> 00:45:57,159
but like if it comes to Asar Thompson or just

1023
00:45:57,559 --> 00:46:01,679
again dusting off Simoni Fontio or something, why not continue

1024
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,119
to go when Josh Hart is gonna play? Wouldn't you

1025
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,320
rather see them continue to put the small on towns

1026
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:08,519
in that situation? Or No?

1027
00:46:09,119 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would because I forget who had it. I

1028
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,079
saw it on Blue Sky yesterday. I think there's maybe

1029
00:46:14,119 --> 00:46:15,920
you've seen it. There's a stat that like when.

1030
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: The Knicks are like spread Katt at the athletic the

1031
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,599
Nix have won like thirty percent of their games when

1032
00:46:21,679 --> 00:46:23,880
Kat is primarily defended by a non.

1033
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 2: Big right and it's just like, okay, so just defend

1034
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:28,719
him with a guard or a wing and like if

1035
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:30,760
he wants to post up, and that's how the Knicks,

1036
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,320
like you know, structure their offense great or if you

1037
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,159
you know, that just seems to work. So I yeah,

1038
00:46:36,199 --> 00:46:38,559
I think, and then you can And that's the thing.

1039
00:46:38,559 --> 00:46:40,599
There's the interplay is so obvious. It's like, well, if

1040
00:46:40,599 --> 00:46:42,840
the Knicks would just take Heart off the floor and

1041
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:44,599
not allow Duran to guard him.

1042
00:46:45,639 --> 00:46:47,760
Speaker 1: And then you could run one five picking rolls. It

1043
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,800
doesn't that doesn't seem like something Tom Thibodau wants to do.

1044
00:46:51,679 --> 00:46:55,280
And I swear to God if he ever plays Mitchell,

1045
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:58,360
Robinson and Josh Hart together again without Towns or Brunton

1046
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,840
on the court. Yeah, I mean, by the way, if

1047
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,519
you're not the five swists the final thing, if you're

1048
00:47:04,519 --> 00:47:07,760
not gonna lean on the Towns, Jalen Brunson pick and roll,

1049
00:47:08,199 --> 00:47:10,800
then give even more minutes to the dual big lineup

1050
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,000
to help your defense, because then Mitchell Robinson has to

1051
00:47:13,039 --> 00:47:15,960
be Like I'd rather see Mitchell Robinson screening instead of

1052
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,119
Towns than Josh Hart screening instead of Towns.

1053
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,039
Speaker 2: Less less to bit maybe because you maybe think of

1054
00:47:21,039 --> 00:47:24,000
it as your fault. I really like Josh Hart, and

1055
00:47:24,039 --> 00:47:26,159
I think there's a great chance that in this series

1056
00:47:26,199 --> 00:47:28,880
he has a game that where his hustle and offensive

1057
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,159
rebounding and like runouts and maybe he'll make a couple threes,

1058
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,760
like contribute to a win that like maybe the Knicks

1059
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,719
don't get without him. But when you think this ties

1060
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,320
all the way back to the through line thing of

1061
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,039
like what matters in the playoffs, Josh Hart's two best

1062
00:47:42,039 --> 00:47:46,280
things are offensive rebounding and transition scoring, and like we

1063
00:47:46,519 --> 00:47:48,519
just keep seeing over and over that that stuff dries

1064
00:47:48,599 --> 00:47:50,320
up in the playoffs. So like if you're not gonna

1065
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,760
get that from him, and what you need is half

1066
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,400
court spacing and and like secondary creation and like matchup

1067
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,880
proof guys like he he's not that like that. So

1068
00:48:00,599 --> 00:48:02,960
I think more McBride minutes is like the obvious lever

1069
00:48:03,079 --> 00:48:05,440
to pull, because that would solve a lot of different things,

1070
00:48:05,519 --> 00:48:09,239
I think. But now watch Josh Hart get like fourteen

1071
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,280
transition points next game and whatever the.

1072
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 1: Problem is, though, is that I think pretty clearly, if

1073
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:15,840
you had to argue wire to wire so far, I

1074
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,880
guess Towns has been the Knicks's best player, like Josh

1075
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,320
Hart's very clearly been their second best playmaker.

1076
00:48:21,599 --> 00:48:25,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a I just it's it's a weird thing.

1077
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,320
I don't know. This is a great series. I really

1078
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,000
hope it goes seven, just because.

1079
00:48:29,159 --> 00:48:32,760
Speaker 1: I think this says a lot. We spend a lot

1080
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,559
of time in the Knicks flaws like the pistons are

1081
00:48:34,599 --> 00:48:37,400
just they're they're finding the weak points and they're pressing

1082
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,559
on them. And that's a great job by JB. Bickerstaff.

1083
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,360
It's a great job by the players. Like this is

1084
00:48:42,599 --> 00:48:45,960
like beatball Paul just coming in, just reaking fucking havoc

1085
00:48:46,039 --> 00:48:49,639
in game three. Hell yeah Yeah. Our next series is

1086
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:55,840
Lakers Wolves Grant make make this series makes sense for me.

1087
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 2: Well, I mean this is the one that I sort

1088
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,400
of have the least to say about. Weirdly, as we're

1089
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,159
recording it, we've only seen two games, and I would say,

1090
00:49:03,199 --> 00:49:06,119
among a few other things, like the difference has been

1091
00:49:06,159 --> 00:49:08,119
the Wolves made threes in one, and they didn't any

1092
00:49:08,119 --> 00:49:11,440
other thing, you know what I mean? Like that, it's

1093
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,039
hard to It's hard to really. We could certainly talk

1094
00:49:14,079 --> 00:49:16,480
more about it and kind of do some macro stuff,

1095
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,440
but like fifteen to twenty six in game one, and

1096
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,000
I forget what they were in game two, but there

1097
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:23,599
were a lot of stats going around about it was

1098
00:49:23,639 --> 00:49:26,079
the biggest decline in made threes from game one to

1099
00:49:26,159 --> 00:49:31,840
gain since some stupidly long ago thing. And the Wolf

1100
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,159
scored eighty five points in that second game. Well, what's so?

1101
00:49:36,199 --> 00:49:38,559
What's the more interesting angle than like make or miss

1102
00:49:38,679 --> 00:49:42,159
league analysis? I mean the small ball stuff and like

1103
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,760
the interplay between you know, big Wolves small Lakers is interesting,

1104
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,159
even though the Lakers aren't small, it's just they have

1105
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:51,480
one guy who's technically a center and he sucks un

1106
00:49:51,519 --> 00:49:54,440
so like they should they sort of are small or

1107
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,920
should be. Do you see Jared Vanderbilt has now averaged

1108
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:59,480
more minutes per game than Jackson Hayes.

1109
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 1: Honestly, I think we both could have predicted that.

1110
00:50:02,639 --> 00:50:04,679
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if I would have picked Vando,

1111
00:50:04,679 --> 00:50:06,559
I would have thought, well, Finny Smith and Ruey will

1112
00:50:06,599 --> 00:50:09,280
both play thirty three minutes a game or something. But

1113
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:12,679
but yeah, so, and the offensive rating is just through

1114
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,559
the cellar with Jackson Hayes on the floor, even though

1115
00:50:15,599 --> 00:50:17,639
it's only two games that that's feels real to me.

1116
00:50:18,079 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: I think if you're the Lakers, you probably feel pretty

1117
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,760
good that to this point, Lebron, Reeves, Ruey and Dfs

1118
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:27,119
are shooting combined ten of thirty nine. Yeah, from three

1119
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,559
twenty five point six percent, and then Reeves and Dfs

1120
00:50:29,559 --> 00:50:32,719
specifically they're three of sixteen on wide open threes.

1121
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, Luca, Luca's over thirty five percent, and somebody

1122
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:38,119
else maybe Vincent is.

1123
00:50:38,039 --> 00:50:40,199
Speaker 1: In thew or something. Three.

1124
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,679
Speaker 2: Everybody else just can't hit anything.

1125
00:50:43,079 --> 00:50:44,679
Speaker 1: And so you have to I almost feel you feel

1126
00:50:44,679 --> 00:50:46,239
pretty good about that. But I've seen a lot of

1127
00:50:46,559 --> 00:50:48,440
because the thing I wanted to focus on in the

1128
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,039
Wolves is not the thing that everyone else seems to

1129
00:50:51,079 --> 00:50:53,800
be focusing on. It was like, look at what Luca

1130
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,679
did going after Rudy Gobert, and I'm like, are we

1131
00:50:57,719 --> 00:50:58,639
gonna do this again?

1132
00:50:59,159 --> 00:51:00,320
Speaker 2: You guys, like you have to.

1133
00:51:01,119 --> 00:51:04,599
Speaker 1: The data, Like the individual numbers against Luca are fine,

1134
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,519
like he's four of ten and one of four when

1135
00:51:07,559 --> 00:51:10,880
going up against Golbert, but this would lend some credit

1136
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,760
to the concern the Lakers are verging one point seventy

1137
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,960
two points per possession grant when Go Bear like as

1138
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,800
a team, when Gobert is defending Luka ancis that is

1139
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,760
really that's bad. But here's the thing that is bad.

1140
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:28,320
Defense has not been Minnesota's problem. Yeah, like it hasn't,

1141
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,280
And so I'm looking at it more from the offensive

1142
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,239
perspective of can you make sure that ann is going

1143
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,760
to be more consistent when he's facing like these aggressive Lakers,

1144
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,039
like schemes or coverages. And then the other thing for

1145
00:51:41,079 --> 00:51:43,320
them is too They did a really good job of

1146
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:45,960
this in game run one is after you grab a board,

1147
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,400
go out, get into your offense. Thirty one point two

1148
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,880
percent of their possessions after a Lakers miss were in transition.

1149
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,559
That dropped a twenty percent in game two. And I

1150
00:51:54,599 --> 00:51:56,760
think the variable in game two, of course, is that

1151
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,920
nas Reed and Dante DiVincenzo both are guys who won.

1152
00:52:00,039 --> 00:52:03,119
Maybe Nasried can help you in like the whole Luka

1153
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,079
versus Go Bear thing, do you if you're the Wolves,

1154
00:52:05,079 --> 00:52:07,760
you want to concede switching as much? I think that's

1155
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,920
worth a discussion having. But isn't it more for you? Like, well,

1156
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:12,800
how do we get this all? Like Julius Randall has

1157
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:14,679
like been fine, has a good game in game two,

1158
00:52:14,679 --> 00:52:17,199
and like you still like you don't feel it isn't

1159
00:52:17,199 --> 00:52:21,519
the problem the offense still doesn't feel dynamic enough? Or

1160
00:52:21,639 --> 00:52:23,920
is it? Should we be focusing on, oh, the Lakers,

1161
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:25,599
like look at what they're doing when go Bear switches

1162
00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:26,519
on to Luca.

1163
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,559
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna read you. And because I built my

1164
00:52:29,679 --> 00:52:32,679
dock here just from notes that I try to write, like.

1165
00:52:32,639 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: Hold on, you're you used, like you're not going analog.

1166
00:52:37,039 --> 00:52:40,559
Speaker 2: I didn't handwrite these, I typed them in my notes

1167
00:52:40,559 --> 00:52:43,280
app and then I copy pasted them into the Google doc.

1168
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:46,920
This after game one, which the Wolves won and shot

1169
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,559
the shit out of the ball. Edwards is a very

1170
00:52:49,559 --> 00:52:52,039
good player who has a long way to go on offense.

1171
00:52:52,159 --> 00:52:54,880
Don't think he makes others better and don't think defenses

1172
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,599
really have to scheme all that hard to stop him yet.

1173
00:52:58,639 --> 00:53:00,320
And I kind of think we're saying the same thing

1174
00:53:01,079 --> 00:53:04,199
because if you're if you're concerned about the Wolves offense,

1175
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:05,880
and like, how does how does this? How do we

1176
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,760
get this thing? Like how do we grease the skids

1177
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:10,440
a little bit, like how do we get it going?

1178
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:13,280
It has to start with Edwards And this is like

1179
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,960
a common knock on him. You'll hear like he doesn't

1180
00:53:16,199 --> 00:53:19,199
The reads he makes when doubled are slow, and he'll

1181
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:22,239
make the easy pass sometimes like the obvious like strong

1182
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,320
side corner out of the pick and roll, which most

1183
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,679
teams take away now anyway, But he's not doing the

1184
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,519
advanced reads. He's not manipulating the defense. It's like you

1185
00:53:30,599 --> 00:53:33,119
just kind of load up against him and maybe he's

1186
00:53:33,159 --> 00:53:36,159
gonna hit six threes over tough contests and that's why

1187
00:53:36,199 --> 00:53:38,920
you lose. But otherwise he's gonna crash in and try

1188
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:41,199
to score over guys because his finishing craft is like

1189
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:45,599
not great despite like a plus athleticism. He can fix

1190
00:53:45,639 --> 00:53:47,800
all that in like two or three more years, I'm sure,

1191
00:53:48,079 --> 00:53:50,840
but for now, like I think all the issues we

1192
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:52,920
talk about with Minnesota do kind of have to be

1193
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,400
traced back to him because he is in the primary

1194
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:59,159
scoring role and like, yeah, go bear being out there

1195
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,239
cramps the facing well, get better at throwing lobs and

1196
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,880
you know, like, yeah, you're bringing on Jaden McDaniels to

1197
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,039
hit a lot of threes, like all right, well hit

1198
00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:09,320
him in the pocket, you know, Like there's I feel

1199
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,679
like it's fair to put a lot of it on Edwards,

1200
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:14,440
and but we did. The counterpoint is we spent a

1201
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:18,199
lot of this series talking, you know, pre series, talking

1202
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:21,880
about just like the guys around him, like well, how

1203
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:23,960
do you keep calmly on the floor, and like how

1204
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:27,079
do you maximize Randall's secondary creation? And there's that's all

1205
00:54:27,159 --> 00:54:29,960
still real. But I think my takeaway so far has

1206
00:54:30,039 --> 00:54:34,039
just kind of been Edwards flaws, even though they do

1207
00:54:34,159 --> 00:54:37,360
seem like the types of things young players correct, you know,

1208
00:54:37,559 --> 00:54:41,960
or or improve upon are like pretty like tightly you know,

1209
00:54:42,039 --> 00:54:45,159
tightly connected, closely linked to like why it is that

1210
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:49,280
Minnesota can look terrible on offense one night and great

1211
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,239
the next and feel like they are just a make

1212
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:52,719
or miss team, you know what I mean, Like he's

1213
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,719
not we talk about advantage creators, like he doesn't consistently

1214
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,400
do that, Like for a guy as good as he is,

1215
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:00,639
I think that's an issue.

1216
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 1: And if you're not gonna have that, because I guess

1217
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:04,960
I don't know what to consider Julius Randall and all this,

1218
00:55:05,039 --> 00:55:07,079
because he can be an advantage creator, but it's like

1219
00:55:07,599 --> 00:55:09,800
you know how it's coming every single time. It's not

1220
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:11,639
dynamic advantage career, and that's.

1221
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,559
Speaker 2: Not really in the spirit of what we're talking about

1222
00:55:13,559 --> 00:55:17,039
with advantage creator, Like he doesn't compromise the defense consistently,

1223
00:55:17,079 --> 00:55:17,639
you know what I mean.

1224
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 1: And that's why sort of like how an arguably Rob

1225
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,239
Dillingham is more important than it's not. Arguably Rob Dillingham's

1226
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:25,519
more important Minnesota than Reed Shepherd is to Houston. But

1227
00:55:25,559 --> 00:55:28,119
like that's the idea of Rob Dillingham. If you're not

1228
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:30,719
going to have that type of finished product player though

1229
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,400
on the roster, you need to surround it. And this

1230
00:55:33,519 --> 00:55:35,239
is why I'm like, I get what you're saying about Edwards,

1231
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,159
and I agree with everything. I guess. I just don't

1232
00:55:37,199 --> 00:55:39,360
know how much blame to assign to him when it's

1233
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:41,840
you know that this is the problem and what you're

1234
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:43,360
waiting on him to develop, and what have you done?

1235
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,559
You've actively I loved Evincenzos, So it's like, I don't

1236
00:55:46,559 --> 00:55:48,960
know if you've made your spacing worse. But like when

1237
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,119
you look at his teammate, like in Catch and Shoot

1238
00:55:52,119 --> 00:55:55,360
three point shooting twenty six percentile in Ketch and Shoot

1239
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:57,800
three point shot, making this year and then thirtieth percentile

1240
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:00,559
overall in off ball gravity. I don't know, an interesting

1241
00:56:00,679 --> 00:56:03,000
challenge trade over the offseason might be Julius Randall and

1242
00:56:03,039 --> 00:56:06,800
Dante DiVincenzo for Karl Anthony Towns, Like maybe that what happens.

1243
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:10,159
So but for like I so I agree with you,

1244
00:56:10,199 --> 00:56:12,800
but I almost feel like this falls on the Wolves,

1245
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,199
for well, this isn't new and you know that this

1246
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,920
did you just bank on him getting better at this? Yeah,

1247
00:56:19,199 --> 00:56:22,239
and so I think so I just wonder if we

1248
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,760
would feel differently, like if you could remove the early

1249
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,400
foul trouble from Nasried and Dante Devincenzo in Game two.

1250
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,039
I honestly almost wonder for talking about like a different

1251
00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:30,679
series at.

1252
00:56:30,559 --> 00:56:32,800
Speaker 2: This sure, yeah, I mean a lot of these are

1253
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,639
that way so early on. I'm I know I'm being

1254
00:56:35,639 --> 00:56:37,840
hard on Edwards and I keeps which button.

1255
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:39,599
Speaker 1: No, that's fair if you want him to be like

1256
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:41,840
the Wolves view him and their fans as like a

1257
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,280
top ten player in the league, like that's you're gonna

1258
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:47,039
pick nits or you're gonna put the microscope over it, right, Like.

1259
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:51,079
Speaker 2: It's sort of his job to excel at being the

1260
00:56:51,119 --> 00:56:54,159
offensive like catalyst, and he can do it. It just

1261
00:56:54,199 --> 00:56:56,000
hasn't happened often enough. And I think that's part of

1262
00:56:56,039 --> 00:56:58,000
the reason the Wolves have been like Jekyll and Hyde

1263
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,719
all season. There's other factors for sure, but I think

1264
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:05,199
it's worthwhile to fixate on him, should we? So we

1265
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:07,800
came into this kind of wondering or I think it

1266
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,480
was it was it was a talking point, like the

1267
00:57:10,559 --> 00:57:13,519
Lakers don't have big man depth. Is that going to

1268
00:57:13,599 --> 00:57:16,559
become a problem? And you would have assumed this series

1269
00:57:17,239 --> 00:57:19,679
that's where it would show up, right, because we spent

1270
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,559
time talking about Gobert nas Reed, like Julius Randall's like

1271
00:57:22,599 --> 00:57:23,639
a physical load, like.

1272
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 1: Craft the like what is there aside from the Thunder,

1273
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:30,400
which some people think the Lakers are a good match

1274
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:32,400
for the Thunder. Maybe they're like, is there a worse

1275
00:57:32,519 --> 00:57:35,800
matchup in theory than these Wolves for the maybe Houston?

1276
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:38,679
Speaker 2: But exactly my point, exactly my point. You would think

1277
00:57:38,679 --> 00:57:40,840
that like this is okay, this will test it, right,

1278
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:43,119
we'll find out if the and it's like so far,

1279
00:57:43,199 --> 00:57:45,719
the answer is like the Lakers are just they seem

1280
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:49,599
equipped to play smaller and make it work. And you know,

1281
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:51,480
we need more games in this series. But like if

1282
00:57:51,519 --> 00:57:54,800
it's not an issue in this series so far, Like

1283
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,840
maybe that's overblown. Maybe they can just play the thing

1284
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,760
is like this quote unquote small Lakers can put like

1285
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,400
four guys that are six eight two fifty on the floor.

1286
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,079
They're you know, close to that, So it's like how

1287
00:58:06,119 --> 00:58:08,920
small are they really? But yeah, you know, maybe maybe

1288
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,639
that's what it is. Maybe maybe like collective size offsets

1289
00:58:11,679 --> 00:58:13,599
the lack of a of a like seven foot or

1290
00:58:13,639 --> 00:58:14,760
that you can throw out there.

1291
00:58:15,079 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 1: Do you So this was one of the series we

1292
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:19,159
differed on. Is I think I had Wolves in six

1293
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:21,519
or seven and you had Lakers in six or seven? Right?

1294
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:23,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had Lakers for sure.

1295
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 1: Do you feel differently about this? Not that you need to.

1296
00:58:26,599 --> 00:58:28,239
I don't like neither of us really in the business

1297
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:31,320
of changing predictions, But do you feel like this? I

1298
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:33,559
guess this series is maybe the way we've gotten here

1299
00:58:33,599 --> 00:58:35,920
is not how I would have where I still I

1300
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:37,840
think I feel a lot better about the Wolves than

1301
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:39,760
I should, is really what I'm getting at.

1302
00:58:40,239 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 2: Ye, I think that's I guess I wouldn't. I would

1303
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,920
still pick the Lakers, And maybe that's partly because like

1304
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,079
they just haven't shot it well collectively, and I think

1305
00:58:51,079 --> 00:58:54,599
there's a room for a lot of improvement there. I

1306
00:58:54,639 --> 00:58:56,679
don't know. This is another one that's like I guess

1307
00:58:56,679 --> 00:58:58,280
we said at the outset, I don't have a great

1308
00:58:58,639 --> 00:59:00,639
like handle on it beyond the make or missed part

1309
00:59:00,719 --> 00:59:03,119
for the Wolves, and I mean I picked I think

1310
00:59:03,119 --> 00:59:05,559
I did pick Lakers in seven, So like that implies

1311
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:08,800
the cistant could go either way. I just I'm just

1312
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:12,159
gonna bet on Luca being better than Ant probably.

1313
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:14,079
Speaker 1: Glad we're in agreement that, and I think if the

1314
00:59:14,119 --> 00:59:16,360
Timberwolves lose, the focus is gonna come back, like, well,

1315
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,639
look at how often Ruby Gobert haad to defend Luca Dancs.

1316
00:59:18,679 --> 00:59:20,800
I just do not think that that's even close to them.

1317
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:22,719
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so either.

1318
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 1: Our next series, which this has been through two games,

1319
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:28,199
has been like one of my favorite ones to watch

1320
00:59:28,239 --> 00:59:30,960
because maybe I like validation and I don't think that

1321
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,920
people fully understood how good the Pacers were and we

1322
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,119
did Grant. How are you feeling like this one's just

1323
00:59:37,159 --> 00:59:40,599
been it's been for Neetic, it's.

1324
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 2: Been for Anetic and another one that so far has

1325
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:46,119
aligned like pretty closely with expectations because Giannis is getting

1326
00:59:46,159 --> 00:59:48,440
all he can eat thirty five and fifteen on sixty

1327
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:50,000
five percent shooting and it's not enough.

1328
00:59:50,559 --> 00:59:53,559
Speaker 1: And we had one game with Dale Kitchen, Denver basically.

1329
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,079
Speaker 2: Kind of yeah, one game with one game without Also,

1330
00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:58,079
I think I told you I've made a bold prediction.

1331
00:59:58,119 --> 01:00:00,079
He had average fifteen free throw attempts per game, and

1332
01:00:00,119 --> 01:00:02,760
I think in game one he shot exactly fifteen. It's like, yeah,

1333
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:06,440
I'm so smart, Uh, because who couldn't Who couldn't see

1334
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:08,599
Giannis like running into everybody on Indiana?

1335
01:00:08,679 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 1: Could you, by the way, did you see the we

1336
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,880
we all like some crowds always still like clock gi

1337
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:15,440
Honest when he's at the free line? Did you see

1338
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:17,679
the fan in Indy that had the clock? Can that

1339
01:00:17,719 --> 01:00:18,480
he's moving like.

1340
01:00:19,159 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 2: Love that guy? Is that the one of the sign

1341
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:21,639
that said Greek time on it?

1342
01:00:21,679 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 1: And it was like, like that is that's like the

1343
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:27,360
fun ship you basketball?

1344
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:31,119
Speaker 2: You can't tell me that wouldn't bother you? Like the

1345
01:00:31,239 --> 01:00:34,599
counting that How could that not just destroy? So I

1346
01:00:34,679 --> 01:00:36,360
was I was like, if that were me, I think

1347
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,159
I would try to time it. So I shot on

1348
01:00:38,239 --> 01:00:40,039
ten every time and it's like, oh wait, that means

1349
01:00:40,039 --> 01:00:42,400
they're definitely in my head. If if I do like,

1350
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:45,000
I'm defeated mentally and I'm not even playing in the game.

1351
01:00:45,079 --> 01:00:46,920
That's a that's a week I would Yeah, I wouldn't

1352
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:47,719
be able to handle it either.

1353
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 1: But that's why we yell that's the game through microphones

1354
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:51,639
rather than play it.

1355
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:52,719
Speaker 2: That's the only reason.

1356
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 1: That's the only reason I don't they do it like

1357
01:00:55,039 --> 01:00:57,920
physical or intelligibility when it comes to basketball.

1358
01:00:58,039 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 2: Mental frailty is my real whole. This is a macro

1359
01:01:03,079 --> 01:01:06,280
question and you can use it to the springboard into

1360
01:01:07,199 --> 01:01:09,360
whatever you want here. But it's kind of Bucks focused

1361
01:01:10,079 --> 01:01:12,920
because we'll talk about the Pacers more. They deserve it.

1362
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:15,480
To me, it feels like there's a handful of first

1363
01:01:15,519 --> 01:01:19,480
round teams so far that feel like they're like end

1364
01:01:19,519 --> 01:01:22,880
of the road teams and like we jump ahead to

1365
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,679
Memphis maybe, like the Knicks in some ways are like, Okay,

1366
01:01:25,719 --> 01:01:27,920
this core is not good enough. It's topped out. To me,

1367
01:01:28,119 --> 01:01:34,119
the Bucks are the most obvious. We're getting beat. We

1368
01:01:34,159 --> 01:01:35,960
don't have a lot of answers, we don't have a

1369
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,239
lot of outs. This group is at the end of

1370
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:42,079
the road. Agree or disagree? Is there another team you'd

1371
01:01:42,079 --> 01:01:45,679
add to that? And are the Bucks showing us right?

1372
01:01:45,719 --> 01:01:49,280
Now that like this, this group is pretty much done.

1373
01:01:49,599 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. I think the only team and we'll

1374
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:54,599
talk about that series a little bit. In Memphis might

1375
01:01:54,639 --> 01:01:55,599
be in a similar boat.

1376
01:01:57,079 --> 01:01:59,159
Speaker 2: I have a hot take on Memphis, by the way after,

1377
01:01:59,159 --> 01:01:59,960
but when we get there.

1378
01:02:00,199 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: I agree with you in the sense that when the

1379
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:06,280
notification came through about the John Horst extension, I was like,

1380
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:08,360
when I saw it, I was at the gym, and

1381
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:10,199
I was like, Oh, the Bucks just fired their executive

1382
01:02:10,199 --> 01:02:11,880
in the middle of the playoff series. This is a disaster,

1383
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:14,320
and my mind was geared sect But what had happened

1384
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:14,960
with Memphis?

1385
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 2: And wait, so after you got through that, what was

1386
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:21,639
did you think at all? What was your first thought

1387
01:02:21,679 --> 01:02:23,760
as to the why they extended him?

1388
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:26,639
Speaker 1: Well, well, I was just like, oh, this is just

1389
01:02:26,679 --> 01:02:28,760
sort of I assumed his contract was up. I didn't

1390
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:30,840
know his contract situation. And then my first reaction was

1391
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,159
I really think that this boat's well for Yannis Stang

1392
01:02:34,199 --> 01:02:38,159
beyond this season. Oh interesting, because oh go ahead.

1393
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:41,159
Speaker 2: No, I'll give it back to you here. I thought, oh,

1394
01:02:41,239 --> 01:02:44,440
they're giving him the security to tear this down and

1395
01:02:44,519 --> 01:02:47,039
think of like a five to six year time horizon,

1396
01:02:47,199 --> 01:02:50,559
which like but then it's like, well, he's had a

1397
01:02:50,559 --> 01:02:52,960
great relationship with the honest and has gotten him to

1398
01:02:53,039 --> 01:02:54,840
re up several times, So maybe that's what.

1399
01:02:55,239 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 1: That was like kind of my second thought. My first

1400
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:58,639
inclation was like, well, people are going to be really

1401
01:02:58,679 --> 01:03:00,519
mad about this, and this is gonna be a joke,

1402
01:03:00,519 --> 01:03:02,119
and surely it was. But in my head I was

1403
01:03:02,159 --> 01:03:04,320
just like, how are they really support Like what has

1404
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:06,400
he done? Okay, the Adrian Griffin and then maybe the

1405
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:10,239
Doc Rivers those are missteps. The Chris Middleton trade doesn't

1406
01:03:10,239 --> 01:03:13,119
look great, Like where has John Horst or this front

1407
01:03:13,119 --> 01:03:18,159
office fundamentally failed this post championship Giannis window? Is it?

1408
01:03:18,199 --> 01:03:20,440
You didn't they never should have gotten rid of Mike Budenholzer?

1409
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:22,199
Is that one of it? Is it? They shouldn't have

1410
01:03:22,239 --> 01:03:24,119
made the Damian Lillard trade, which I think most people

1411
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:26,480
kind of understood because they thought they were capped with

1412
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:28,960
through Holliday. And the other thing to remember is that, yeah,

1413
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:31,960
this Bucks team doesn't feel like it's it. Last year's

1414
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:33,880
Bucks team didn't feel like it's it the year like

1415
01:03:34,079 --> 01:03:36,960
the previous two playoff campaigns, and then maybe even this

1416
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:38,719
one just because of how long it's gonna take him

1417
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:42,039
to work back into true dame. It's just they've dealt

1418
01:03:42,079 --> 01:03:44,679
with there's been major pieces that are injured or just

1419
01:03:44,719 --> 01:03:48,559
in Giannis's case, missed, like the entire playoffs. So I

1420
01:03:49,079 --> 01:03:50,840
don't have a problem with them doing it. I did

1421
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:53,480
not consider the oh, they're giving him the job security

1422
01:03:53,519 --> 01:03:55,800
to tear this down. I just if that was the

1423
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:58,519
reason they did it. I don't think you announce it

1424
01:03:58,679 --> 01:04:00,519
in the middle of a playoffs here, Yeah, I think

1425
01:04:00,559 --> 01:04:04,800
it's more so we're doing this to distract from us

1426
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,679
being down to oh, and we're sending a signal that like,

1427
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,360
no this. Maybe they make moves, maybe even Dave Willer

1428
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,000
gets traded, but we're gonna try and reorient around Giannis.

1429
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:15,920
Speaker 2: I was definitely prime. I had like primed myself to

1430
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:18,840
think that because because of the question I asked you

1431
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:20,360
before about like the end of the road teams, it

1432
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:21,760
feels like this team's at the end of the road.

1433
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:23,880
So like, of course, the only reason you'd re up

1434
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:26,159
with your top executive is because you want to let

1435
01:04:26,239 --> 01:04:28,719
him know, Hey, you don't have to think about tomorrow.

1436
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:30,960
You can think about like ten tomorrow's from now if

1437
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:31,320
you want.

1438
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 1: So.

1439
01:04:32,519 --> 01:04:34,239
Speaker 2: I kind of set myself up for that.

1440
01:04:34,679 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 1: But well, I think you could be right. But then

1441
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:39,280
wouldn't that make the timing of when you and share

1442
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,559
outing that weird? Like why not wait until you get

1443
01:04:41,599 --> 01:04:45,280
bounced or like even do it before the series starts? Oh?

1444
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 2: I remember I was gonna say, do you yes? I

1445
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:52,159
think you're right? Do you think that? Like I'm gonna

1446
01:04:52,199 --> 01:04:53,880
lose my thought again? Why can't I keep this thought

1447
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:54,239
in my head?

1448
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 1: Oh?

1449
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:57,519
Speaker 2: Do you think that? Milwaukee fans, I'm asking you just

1450
01:04:57,599 --> 01:04:59,840
be a voice for the greater you.

1451
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:03,199
Speaker 1: Know, Dabucks band, Dan for Valley here reported for duty.

1452
01:05:03,239 --> 01:05:06,039
Speaker 2: Do you think they want like, hey, keep of course

1453
01:05:06,079 --> 01:05:08,159
they want like keep you honest. The Luca, the whole

1454
01:05:08,199 --> 01:05:10,039
Luca thing taught us that, like just keep our guy

1455
01:05:10,119 --> 01:05:14,039
please and retool or like tinker or see what you

1456
01:05:14,079 --> 01:05:17,760
can turn I don't know, dame into or whatever? Or

1457
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:20,199
is it or do you think they look at this

1458
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:24,559
and say this is we've just reached the logical endpoint

1459
01:05:24,639 --> 01:05:27,320
of a team that went all in several times, won

1460
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:30,760
a championship, still has the superstar, but just can't build

1461
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:32,880
a good enough roster around him, because that's hard to

1462
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:36,480
do over like a decade span like do you do

1463
01:05:36,519 --> 01:05:38,519
you or do you think they they just like want

1464
01:05:38,599 --> 01:05:40,880
more of this, or they like think you know what

1465
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:41,199
I mean?

1466
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,679
Speaker 1: I think they The sense that I would get is

1467
01:05:44,679 --> 01:05:47,239
that they're they're not okay with this, but they are

1468
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:49,679
resigned to what you said where it's this is sort

1469
01:05:49,679 --> 01:05:52,519
of the natural destination of a team that went all

1470
01:05:52,559 --> 01:05:55,760
in one to one, tried to win again for whatever reason,

1471
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,880
did not. But they also look at it as I

1472
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:00,920
so if you have to pick like one of the

1473
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,199
two extremes, I don't think Bucks fans want them to

1474
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,239
tear it down because they understand that, like they're still

1475
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:09,880
not going to have control over most of their draft

1476
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:13,360
picks moving forward. So there's limited value in trading Giannis

1477
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:16,400
aside from if you can get an offer that's attractive enough.

1478
01:06:16,639 --> 01:06:19,079
But I also think and I think I would agree,

1479
01:06:19,119 --> 01:06:21,519
and I don't know, maybe the Chris Middleton trade changes

1480
01:06:21,519 --> 01:06:24,320
that a little bit. I do think there's more juice

1481
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:28,199
to squeeze out of this group. I just but like,

1482
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:31,159
at the same time I'm saying that, I'm like they've

1483
01:06:31,159 --> 01:06:33,400
actually done pretty well the past couple of seasons, hitting

1484
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:36,199
on like these minimum signings well person League Beasley then

1485
01:06:36,199 --> 01:06:39,000
it's Torrian Prince, then it's Gary Tran Junior. Not saying

1486
01:06:39,079 --> 01:06:41,599
either one of them had a terrific series, but I

1487
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:45,960
would think that I think if you pull Bucks fans,

1488
01:06:46,519 --> 01:06:48,880
they don't want this to really like, if they had

1489
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:50,639
to pick an extreme, it would be let's figure out

1490
01:06:50,639 --> 01:06:52,559
a way to double down on Giannis again, even if

1491
01:06:52,559 --> 01:06:55,480
it's imperfect and risky, rather than let's tear it down

1492
01:06:55,519 --> 01:06:57,760
and take what is probably the safer Like if you're

1493
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,559
the Bucks and you trade Giannis, now they'll be the noise.

1494
01:07:00,599 --> 01:07:03,599
Oh you failed, but like it's the safe path, right.

1495
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:05,519
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1496
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:08,519
Speaker 1: The harder decision would be do we put more a

1497
01:07:08,559 --> 01:07:10,880
future pick on the table. Do we look at it

1498
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:13,039
like just who is the best player we can get

1499
01:07:13,079 --> 01:07:15,920
for if you send out Kuzma and pat Content assuming

1500
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:17,079
he takes out his player, like you get.

1501
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:19,360
Speaker 2: A pretty expensive player for that, right right.

1502
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 1: So I think that would be the riskier decision because

1503
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:25,760
you're giving up like what's what little is left of

1504
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:26,880
your future draft equity?

1505
01:07:27,039 --> 01:07:30,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's I think that's fair. Let's we

1506
01:07:30,159 --> 01:07:31,599
gotta we gotta like.

1507
01:07:32,159 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 1: Can we get to our ode of past clos I.

1508
01:07:35,239 --> 01:07:38,159
Speaker 2: Was just gonna say, we gotta circle back to this series,

1509
01:07:38,199 --> 01:07:40,159
and we need to focus on the team that's been

1510
01:07:40,199 --> 01:07:42,800
really good in it, which is the Pacers.

1511
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:44,719
Speaker 1: Which I think is most impressive. It's not like they're

1512
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:48,119
still playing Pacers basketball, but like the Bucks transition even

1513
01:07:48,159 --> 01:07:49,559
has not been good, but they kept them out of

1514
01:07:49,599 --> 01:07:51,719
transition for a lot of this game, like more than

1515
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:53,960
the Pacers normally are, and it just like sort of

1516
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,519
doesn't matter. I think has been huge at both ends.

1517
01:07:57,679 --> 01:08:00,159
The Bucks are scoring zero point eighty six points per

1518
01:08:00,159 --> 01:08:02,679
possession when he guards Giannis so as a team that

1519
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:06,440
is insane, like insanely bad for Milwaukee, and I think

1520
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:08,000
he's done a lot of good things and pulled him

1521
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:10,119
out of ruts on the offensive end, like his two

1522
01:08:10,159 --> 01:08:13,000
way workload, I would argue has been pretty absurd. And

1523
01:08:13,039 --> 01:08:16,560
the other note I have is like I still don't

1524
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:20,199
think we fully appreciate and at least twelve NBA players

1525
01:08:20,199 --> 01:08:22,640
don't appreciate this because they voted that. By the way,

1526
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:25,520
those framings are always funny those polls. Because it's one

1527
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:30,239
hundred and fifty eight players participated, ninety answered the overrated question,

1528
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:33,840
and tyres Halburton won that category with fourteen percent of

1529
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:35,399
the vote, which is like, all right, so twelve players

1530
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:38,720
think that Tyres Haliburn's underrated, overrated. But what I will

1531
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:40,960
say is he's not even shooting the ball well, not

1532
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,640
even inside the arc, like well like fifty percent. He

1533
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,359
was a fifty eight percent for the regular season. The

1534
01:08:46,399 --> 01:08:49,880
possession battle of just like, he has four turnovers against

1535
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:50,760
twenty four assists.

1536
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:53,399
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, averaging twelve to two. It's like,

1537
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:54,520
what else do you need him to do?

1538
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,800
Speaker 1: Well? Grant, only four players have matched at least twenty

1539
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:02,479
four assists with fewer than five turnovers through the first

1540
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:05,079
two games of a playoff series. They are Mike Conley,

1541
01:09:05,319 --> 01:09:08,000
Drew Holliday, Steve Nash, and then Chris Paul did it

1542
01:09:08,079 --> 01:09:11,039
multiple times because of course he did. Yeah, And just

1543
01:09:11,159 --> 01:09:13,439
like I think that Halliburton's been able to like when

1544
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:15,640
you've put like when Brook Lopez has been switched on

1545
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:18,279
to him, or even just any sort of big the

1546
01:09:18,319 --> 01:09:20,640
Pacers are averaging what is a number here when one

1547
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:23,760
of the Biggs guards Halliburton one point three to six

1548
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:25,880
points per possession, when Hollie's defended by one of the

1549
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:28,119
Bucks is bigs and I'm including kuzmanianis in that with

1550
01:09:28,159 --> 01:09:31,119
Portis and brook Lopez. Yeah, like with Lopez, if you

1551
01:09:31,159 --> 01:09:32,760
get all the way to the basket, you might lose

1552
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:34,680
that battle because of who brook Lopez is. But like

1553
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:36,760
the work that Tires Halliburton's been doing from the in

1554
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:40,600
between sprang out like the players around. It seems stupid

1555
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,079
to say, like, yeah, like the two best players on

1556
01:09:43,119 --> 01:09:45,239
the Pacers have really done their job, but like that's

1557
01:09:45,279 --> 01:09:47,640
a huge part of all this, and you've gotten extra

1558
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:50,159
lifts from you look at what Andrew Nemhard has been

1559
01:09:50,199 --> 01:09:52,319
able to do, and you look at what Miles Turner

1560
01:09:52,319 --> 01:09:54,239
has been able to do for a lot of this series.

1561
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:57,159
But just like the Siakam and Halliburton is just remember

1562
01:09:57,159 --> 01:09:59,840
there were questions about is this duo enough to make

1563
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,239
any sort of debt in the East, and people were wondering, oh,

1564
01:10:02,399 --> 01:10:04,720
was that the right trade for Indie to make when

1565
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:07,359
it came to getting Siakam. I'm not saying they're gonna

1566
01:10:07,399 --> 01:10:09,119
go to the conference finals. There's still a lot of

1567
01:10:09,119 --> 01:10:12,279
this series left to play. This team is really it

1568
01:10:12,359 --> 01:10:15,800
is good. It is balanced, and most important it is

1569
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:18,239
it's not deep, Grant, it's playoff deep.

1570
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:21,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. So to your point, a couple of things, And

1571
01:10:21,319 --> 01:10:23,520
then I want to ask you a question about a

1572
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:26,920
more a broader angle here. So, of the guys that

1573
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:30,279
have attempted in this series on Indiana, at least I

1574
01:10:30,319 --> 01:10:33,920
think it's at least three threes in the series, two

1575
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:38,840
players are shooting under fifty percent on threes, Tyre's Haliburton

1576
01:10:39,399 --> 01:10:43,279
and Ben Matherin everybody else go down the list, Sakam

1577
01:10:43,399 --> 01:10:47,319
Nemhard Turner, Nie Smith is sixty two and a half

1578
01:10:47,319 --> 01:10:51,399
percent topping sixties has gone two for three, Jars Walker's

1579
01:10:51,399 --> 01:10:54,960
two for three, Like everybody's hitting threes, and that's because

1580
01:10:55,039 --> 01:10:57,720
partly because they're running hot, but also also because like

1581
01:10:57,720 --> 01:10:59,920
Haliburton is diming these guys up, Like these are good

1582
01:11:00,039 --> 01:11:02,039
looks they're getting. Generally speaking, I don't know what the

1583
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:06,640
wide open and open data are, but they the pacers

1584
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:08,439
are getting really good shots. And that ties back to

1585
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:12,000
the question I want to ask you, which, like the

1586
01:11:12,039 --> 01:11:14,039
answer is always a little bit of both. But do

1587
01:11:14,119 --> 01:11:17,159
you think Indiana looks this good because Indiana is this good?

1588
01:11:17,319 --> 01:11:19,760
Or is it or is it because the Bucks just

1589
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:23,720
like they just don't have the guys to like put

1590
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:27,600
real pressure on Indiana's playmakers and cover the you know

1591
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:29,760
what I mean, like is it is it Indiana or

1592
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:33,359
is it Milwaukee? Is is it? Because if it's Indiana,

1593
01:11:33,399 --> 01:11:35,000
then we have to talk about them making a deeper

1594
01:11:35,079 --> 01:11:38,319
run than maybe we thought. And if it's Milwaukee, then

1595
01:11:38,319 --> 01:11:41,119
it's just like, well, well, we just have another series

1596
01:11:41,159 --> 01:11:43,439
where we say, well, the Pacers got through, but like

1597
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,000
we we all know, you know, like we did when

1598
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:47,159
they made the conference finals.

1599
01:11:48,079 --> 01:11:51,920
Speaker 1: Oh, that's tough. I do think it's more so the Pacers,

1600
01:11:52,039 --> 01:11:54,720
but it's just like, because didn't we know that the

1601
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:56,920
Bucks were just never gonna be I guess maybe some

1602
01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:58,560
people did you pick them to win this series. I

1603
01:11:58,600 --> 01:11:59,239
don't think you did.

1604
01:11:59,359 --> 01:12:00,640
Speaker 2: I think we both pay the Pacers.

1605
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think it's just more so the Pacers.

1606
01:12:03,279 --> 01:12:04,880
They've made a lot of good adjustments, and I think

1607
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:06,840
that the way that they've shown in all these different

1608
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:09,159
ways that they could score because it was the Bucks.

1609
01:12:09,239 --> 01:12:12,000
Kaitlyn Cooper had this stat the Bucks switched like fifty

1610
01:12:12,039 --> 01:12:14,880
two percent of the offensive possession, which was their highest

1611
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:17,479
mark of the year in Game two. It's like, yeah,

1612
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:19,399
that's a game where I under they I could. I

1613
01:12:19,439 --> 01:12:22,319
actually think Doc Rivers has tried some like different shit

1614
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:24,319
on defense, so give I mean, that's a lot of switching.

1615
01:12:24,359 --> 01:12:25,960
I didn't know it was gonna be that high, but

1616
01:12:26,239 --> 01:12:29,159
the Pacers just figured out ways to bust through even

1617
01:12:29,199 --> 01:12:31,560
when it hasn't been, you know, as easy as it

1618
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:34,720
was in Game one. So I think it's more so

1619
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:36,560
the Pacers because I think they can beat you with

1620
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:38,359
a bunch of different players and in a bunch of

1621
01:12:38,359 --> 01:12:41,520
different ways now. And I think that honestly, the growth

1622
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:43,720
of Nem hard Shore, even the growth of Benancmathrim, but

1623
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:46,560
I think that's where the addition of Pascal Siaka makes

1624
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:48,960
a ton of difference. Is that if you go back

1625
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:51,800
to not last season, but the season before, it was

1626
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:54,359
kind of just they felt like not a one note

1627
01:12:54,359 --> 01:12:56,159
but maybe a one and a half note offensive team.

1628
01:12:56,199 --> 01:12:58,760
Where's if they're not playing fast, they're in transition, what

1629
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:01,079
are they gonna do how they don't need to do that,

1630
01:13:01,159 --> 01:13:04,520
Like they can pick you apart surgically more so than

1631
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:06,880
they could last season even and I know the Bucks

1632
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:10,039
defense has more weak points to press than the teams

1633
01:13:10,079 --> 01:13:12,920
that they would face moving forward at the same time,

1634
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:16,000
and I'm curious if you disagree with the logic, would

1635
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,760
be like, I think this is more Pacers than Bucks.

1636
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:20,520
Speaker 2: I think it is, and I looked up the stats

1637
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:22,840
to answer my own question, and this this goes to

1638
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:26,960
what we're talking about. The Pacers have taken one three

1639
01:13:27,039 --> 01:13:29,760
point shot through the first two games of this series

1640
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:33,479
that was defined as tight tightly covered, which was which

1641
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:35,840
means a defender within two to four feet from three.

1642
01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:39,880
Every single other three they've taken has been either open

1643
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:43,720
or wide open. So like, the shot quality from deep

1644
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:46,880
that Indya is getting is like, you can't lose a

1645
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:50,760
series unless you just like you're cursed or something. If

1646
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:53,319
you're getting that high quality of three point looks.

1647
01:13:54,039 --> 01:13:57,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's they're really good. And so I don't we

1648
01:13:57,720 --> 01:13:59,520
shouldn't get too far ahead of our skis here, but

1649
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:01,680
I am curious to see how they're going to match

1650
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:04,600
up like in the next series, just assuming that they're

1651
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:06,880
gonna get there. So they're gonna be facing Cleveland spoiler alert,

1652
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:09,600
we'll get to Cleveland, Miami in a second. I actually

1653
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:12,000
don't hate the way that they match up against Cleveland.

1654
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:16,760
Speaker 2: Though, No, I it's gonna be look before we move on, Uh,

1655
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:20,079
are we gonna get a punch thrown in Indiana Milwaukee

1656
01:14:20,119 --> 01:14:22,520
before nix Pistons or after.

1657
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:27,600
Speaker 1: I think after that, like there's the there's the history,

1658
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:29,680
more history between this version of the Pacers and this

1659
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:32,159
version of the Bucks. But like Nick Pistons has been

1660
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:37,119
like everyone's just mad and there's like everyone's real mead

1661
01:14:37,159 --> 01:14:39,479
like pointing after like your team's down eight, you dunked it,

1662
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:41,159
and then he's pointing a finger. I think that was

1663
01:14:41,159 --> 01:14:43,640
at o G. I think someone's gonna throw a punch there.

1664
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:48,680
Warriors Rockets clock keeping conspiracies already coming out of that series.

1665
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:52,319
Speaker 2: So we have three series because Warriors Rockets is real chippy,

1666
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:54,640
so we need a fourth. We need a fourth so

1667
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:57,319
that half the series are like at the risk of violence.

1668
01:14:57,359 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 1: I feel like that, which so of the live game

1669
01:15:00,239 --> 01:15:03,239
violence though, like do you I feel like there might

1670
01:15:03,239 --> 01:15:05,720
be more bodies hitting the floor in Pacers Bucks. It

1671
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:07,359
feels like I feel like every time looking up feels

1672
01:15:07,359 --> 01:15:10,319
like someone might be on the floor. Man misremembering here.

1673
01:15:10,359 --> 01:15:14,039
Speaker 2: I mean Warriors Rockets Game two was intense, like there

1674
01:15:14,119 --> 01:15:16,399
was so many tie ups, like I feel like, uh,

1675
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:19,800
Stephan Jalen Green got in multiple jump balls together just

1676
01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:21,960
like being like diving on the floor and like, I mean,

1677
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:24,760
if those two are scrapping, like we're really we've got

1678
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:27,000
something we should do Cleveland Miami next. Unless you have

1679
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:28,199
more on the Pacers.

1680
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:31,439
Speaker 1: I do not. What are your thoughts on Cleveland Miami?

1681
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 2: I mean the main thing, it's the main thing on

1682
01:15:34,039 --> 01:15:37,720
the Cavs side. The best offense in the league has

1683
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:40,279
been validated. They have the best playoff offense so far

1684
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,920
one hundred and thirty three offensive rating. And that ties

1685
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:47,079
into like I think Miami is actually like pretty good,

1686
01:15:47,359 --> 01:15:49,800
Like I know that like Hero got picked on in

1687
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:53,680
Game one. But defensively, if especially if Davion Mitchell is

1688
01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:55,479
gonna be a bigger part of the rotation, which looks

1689
01:15:55,479 --> 01:15:58,920
like is just gonna happen. Uh, they can put Mitchell,

1690
01:15:59,319 --> 01:16:03,760
high Smith, Wiggins Bam like they have real defenders on

1691
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:06,880
the floor. Uh, and and like different types too, Like

1692
01:16:07,119 --> 01:16:09,560
Mitchell's pretty tough at point of attack, Like that's kind

1693
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:11,399
of why he's in the league, That's certainly why he

1694
01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:14,439
was drafted where he was. Wiggins has a pedigree defensively

1695
01:16:14,479 --> 01:16:17,039
against like really good wings. The Calves kind of don't

1696
01:16:17,079 --> 01:16:19,399
have those, but he can go up or down the

1697
01:16:19,439 --> 01:16:22,560
positional spectrum and then Bam is Bam and the Calves

1698
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:26,079
just can score. So like, this is what a one eight,

1699
01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:29,479
This is more competitive than a one eight should look,

1700
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:32,600
I think, but it is a one eight, and I

1701
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:35,560
think that's like just the the sheer talent and production

1702
01:16:35,640 --> 01:16:38,840
that Cleveland has is like, I just it's it's it's

1703
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:42,000
valid it's it's being validated in so far or inasmuch

1704
01:16:42,079 --> 01:16:44,239
as a one versus eight series can validate something.

1705
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:46,960
Speaker 1: What was more? What's more shocking to you that this

1706
01:16:47,039 --> 01:16:49,279
has been more of a Sam Merrill series than a

1707
01:16:49,319 --> 01:16:52,960
DeAndre Hunter series, or that Nikola Jovic is getting crunch

1708
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:56,720
time run over Andrew Wiggins or Miami. What's more surprising? Uh?

1709
01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:59,680
Speaker 2: Probably the second one, although should we be ever surprised

1710
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:02,239
Ifiggins is like, oh man, he's not here tonight, Like

1711
01:17:02,319 --> 01:17:07,399
that's just that's that's that's priced in. Did we overthink?

1712
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:11,760
I again, these are small samples, and so Mitchell's big

1713
01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:14,520
second half that like stabilizes game two, you know, the

1714
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:16,439
heat we're kind of in it and he Mitchell just

1715
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:18,439
put it away. Do we overthink?

1716
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:18,600
Speaker 1: Like?

1717
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 2: Actually, Mobiley is the Cavs most valuable player. And I

1718
01:17:22,039 --> 01:17:23,840
say this because he just and he just won Defensive

1719
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:25,920
Player of the Year and had a really good game too,

1720
01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:30,159
But when Mitchell's cooking, it's kind of like, yeah, okay,

1721
01:17:30,239 --> 01:17:32,159
we over Mitchell just is Yeah, And I.

1722
01:17:32,079 --> 01:17:34,800
Speaker 1: Think even you look at like Mobile, I don't think

1723
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:38,479
he's had like the the the postseason playmaking jump that

1724
01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:41,880
I might have forecasted him for. Mitchell be more important there. Yeah,

1725
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:43,560
And I also just when you look at some of

1726
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:46,680
the Calves like weaknesses so far through this series, where

1727
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:49,560
well they're pretty met on rebounding, they can maybe fall

1728
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:51,800
in love with matchup hunting against Tyler Hero And it's

1729
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:54,760
just like Donovan Mitchell making shots is the antidote to

1730
01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:56,960
every single concern you might have about this team.

1731
01:17:57,439 --> 01:18:02,039
Speaker 2: Man making shots that like are bbicuously like spectacular, Like

1732
01:18:02,079 --> 01:18:04,600
Donovan Mitchell does a lot of cool shit where it's

1733
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:08,600
like it's really obvious that he has that like lead

1734
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:11,199
you know, lead dog, like big, you know, I got

1735
01:18:11,239 --> 01:18:14,039
the ball type of thing I'm gonna score, Like he

1736
01:18:14,159 --> 01:18:16,960
just is that guy. So and like Mobley's contributions are

1737
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:19,399
always going to be more subtle, So Mobile, I feel

1738
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:21,680
like we fall into the trap of like Mobley's like

1739
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:26,640
the thinking man's Cavs best player where and actually it's

1740
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:29,079
just Mitchell, because like the stuff Mitchell can do, Like,

1741
01:18:29,119 --> 01:18:31,239
you just can't win a bunch of playoff series unless

1742
01:18:31,279 --> 01:18:32,479
you have that guy, you know.

1743
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:35,720
Speaker 1: So I wish I have no regrets from the regular season,

1744
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:37,920
but this is one of those things whereas well, you can't.

1745
01:18:38,079 --> 01:18:39,439
It's you're looking at it through the ones of the

1746
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:41,840
regular season. We get to the playoffs and it's we

1747
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:43,239
get you're right, we overthought that.

1748
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:45,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you know, but you're right too, though, Hey,

1749
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:48,199
you know what, We're all right. Everybody's right. Both of us,

1750
01:18:48,279 --> 01:18:51,600
especially like Mobley did have maybe arguably the more impactful

1751
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:55,000
regular season, but Mitchell is just like he's the more indispensive.

1752
01:18:55,119 --> 01:18:57,720
Like you can't do anything in the playoffs unless you

1753
01:18:57,760 --> 01:18:59,840
think Garland can actually just do all the Mitchell stuff,

1754
01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:02,600
which like sometimes it looks like you can, right, but

1755
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:05,520
but Mitchell, I think really still is just you know,

1756
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:09,119
the Cavs are just not anything close to what they

1757
01:19:09,159 --> 01:19:11,399
could be if Mitchell isn't doing stuff like you did

1758
01:19:11,439 --> 01:19:12,760
in the second half of game too.

1759
01:19:13,159 --> 01:19:16,039
Speaker 1: Are you worried at all about like, is anything they've

1760
01:19:16,039 --> 01:19:18,439
done next to I think Cleveland's fantastic. Well, I'm like

1761
01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:20,279
now kind of second guessing where You're looking at a

1762
01:19:20,319 --> 01:19:24,600
perspective series against Indy, and I'm trying to think of

1763
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:27,840
like dynamic offenses, whether it's Indy or eventually Boston in

1764
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:30,439
the Conference finals. I'm like, oh, is there Like are

1765
01:19:30,479 --> 01:19:33,079
they gonna have to at that point? You can't really

1766
01:19:33,119 --> 01:19:35,640
curtail the minutes of DeAndre Hunter wrighting. You might need

1767
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:38,960
more of Isaaca Corro. Yeah, And I'm wondering are they

1768
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:40,960
not as ready to face either of those two as

1769
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:43,640
I would think? And again that might just be me overthinking,

1770
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:45,199
but like Miami is not because you know, what this

1771
01:19:45,239 --> 01:19:47,560
series has done for me is like it's reinforced Tyler

1772
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:49,640
Heroes made a ton of growth mm hm. And it's

1773
01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:52,479
also reinforced that, my god, this team needs another top

1774
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:55,760
level creator. And that was true before the Jimmy Butler trade.

1775
01:19:55,479 --> 01:19:57,399
Speaker 2: Right, it can the two things can be true, Like

1776
01:19:57,479 --> 01:20:00,399
Tyler hero can have ascended to like another level of

1777
01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:05,079
like scoring star stuff, and the Heat still need someone

1778
01:20:05,119 --> 01:20:07,279
better than him on offense like that that really it's

1779
01:20:07,359 --> 01:20:09,000
kind of like the That's what we used to say

1780
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:11,439
about Brunson, Right, It's like they still the Nick and

1781
01:20:11,479 --> 01:20:14,479
that may not be true anymore, but like he's great

1782
01:20:14,479 --> 01:20:16,560
the Knicks still needs someone as good or better than him.

1783
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:18,640
Speaker 1: It might be you could even frame it because it

1784
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:20,479
would be this with Brunson. You need to get someone

1785
01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:23,640
to where it's worth displacing Tyler Jailer Brunton from the

1786
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:24,039
ball more.

1787
01:20:24,159 --> 01:20:26,239
Speaker 2: That's the better way to put it. Like he you're

1788
01:20:26,279 --> 01:20:28,720
not gonna go real far if Hero has to do

1789
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:33,960
all that he's doing. Do you think Cleveland is more

1790
01:20:34,039 --> 01:20:38,920
vulnerable to a team that has like someone that forces

1791
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:42,479
Mobley to guard a big than than they are against,

1792
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:46,000
like a really good guard like that forced both Mitchell

1793
01:20:46,039 --> 01:20:48,319
and Garland to have to guard like a dangerous scorer.

1794
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:51,760
I'm not sure that team is out there now because

1795
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:54,279
if you, like I guess, you'd say yeah, I mean,

1796
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:57,640
do you see what I'm getting at? Like, yeah, the

1797
01:20:57,680 --> 01:20:59,920
fix for Cleveland is like, well, Mobiley can just guard

1798
01:21:00,079 --> 01:21:03,600
Jason Tatum or some or whatever. But if, but if

1799
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:06,159
you force Mobley to have Mobiley and Allen to have

1800
01:21:06,279 --> 01:21:09,319
to guard Biggs, is that more of a problem because

1801
01:21:09,319 --> 01:21:11,239
it means you just have no one to guard, like

1802
01:21:11,279 --> 01:21:13,880
a combo forward or a wing other than Hunter, I guess?

1803
01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:19,840
Or is it worse if like way you dust of

1804
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:21,720
Dean Wade if he can stay healthy, that's your answer,

1805
01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:24,880
Dean Wade's always been the answer for Cleveland. Or or

1806
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:28,039
is it like, well Garland has to guard. Yeah, I

1807
01:21:28,079 --> 01:21:30,039
don't even know who this team is. It doesn't matter.

1808
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:32,560
Speaker 1: Is this like a way to answer it would be

1809
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:36,359
would you be more worried about them their defensive game

1810
01:21:36,399 --> 01:21:39,359
plan for Tyree's Haliburton or Boston?

1811
01:21:41,800 --> 01:21:45,279
Speaker 2: Huh? Well, yeah, I guess we sud.

1812
01:21:45,079 --> 01:21:46,880
Speaker 1: More weapons, But like, I guess you see what I'm

1813
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:48,880
kind of getting at here in the sense of like

1814
01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:52,199
who is that? Like you feel more confident about if

1815
01:21:52,199 --> 01:21:55,319
the Cavs have to match up opposite Jason Tatum or

1816
01:21:55,319 --> 01:21:57,720
Tyre's Haliburton, Like, what do they have more solves for?

1817
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:03,000
Speaker 2: I feel like they probably have morese Can we say

1818
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:05,279
they have more solves for Boston? Is that insane?

1819
01:22:05,720 --> 01:22:08,359
Speaker 1: I think you're looking at like one player maybe, But.

1820
01:22:09,199 --> 01:22:11,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I mean that's gonna be the

1821
01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:13,600
central question. This team is not gonna I don't think

1822
01:22:13,640 --> 01:22:16,560
the Calves are gonna run into problems scoring right like that.

1823
01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:20,119
It's just eventually they'll play a team that is gonna

1824
01:22:20,159 --> 01:22:23,600
stretch what they can do defensively with two small Guards

1825
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:27,880
and like the carousel of you know, small forwards that

1826
01:22:28,319 --> 01:22:30,920
which is like all those guys are pretty good at

1827
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:33,520
least good at something, you know, between a Korro and

1828
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:35,880
Wade and Hunter and Struce.

1829
01:22:36,439 --> 01:22:39,439
Speaker 1: But like even like with Mitchell, like specifically, if you're

1830
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:41,199
gonna have Tyre's Halbert and do any of his off

1831
01:22:41,199 --> 01:22:43,439
ball stuff, like Mitchell might be able to handle that type.

1832
01:22:44,760 --> 01:22:47,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it just becomes it's an m hard

1833
01:22:47,159 --> 01:22:51,560
series and he just cooks Garland main series. Maybe I

1834
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:53,319
don't think there is a Benedic matherin series.

1835
01:22:54,479 --> 01:22:54,760
Speaker 1: I don't.

1836
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:55,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

1837
01:22:55,640 --> 01:22:57,399
Speaker 1: Worse about the Calves. Like through the first couple of

1838
01:22:57,399 --> 01:22:59,199
games this series, that wasn't necessarily what I was getting at.

1839
01:22:59,239 --> 01:23:01,039
It was just it made me think, like, all right,

1840
01:23:01,079 --> 01:23:05,119
the Heat have had some more like good offensive moments

1841
01:23:05,159 --> 01:23:06,880
that I would have expected out of this series, right,

1842
01:23:07,359 --> 01:23:10,439
And is that problematic at all? I think?

1843
01:23:10,520 --> 01:23:13,079
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think the Heat they won

1844
01:23:13,119 --> 01:23:15,119
thirty seven games with thirty seven is that right? They

1845
01:23:15,159 --> 01:23:17,960
won thirty seven games. They're just better than that, I think.

1846
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:21,920
And then it's still a small enough sample where like

1847
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:25,920
I don't really feel like anything from this series big

1848
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:28,520
Shocker has made me like, oh god, we got to

1849
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:29,920
go back to We got to get back in the

1850
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:32,079
lab and try to figure out how good Cleveland is. Like,

1851
01:23:32,079 --> 01:23:34,159
I still think we got a pretty good idea our

1852
01:23:34,279 --> 01:23:35,359
next series.

1853
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:38,640
Speaker 1: Oklahoma Stame Memphids.

1854
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:41,760
Speaker 2: Okay, can I get into the We're gonna do like

1855
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:44,079
a post mortem on Memphis. Even though as we record

1856
01:23:44,119 --> 01:23:46,079
this the series is three to zero, we don't have

1857
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:49,920
confirm anything beyond like John Moran had that rough fall

1858
01:23:50,039 --> 01:23:50,640
on his hip.

1859
01:23:51,439 --> 01:23:53,720
Speaker 1: Did you how did you feel about the lou doort

1860
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:54,960
of people are.

1861
01:23:56,239 --> 01:23:59,720
Speaker 2: I don't think there's anything there. I think like it's

1862
01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:02,720
I don't know what you do about that. I guess

1863
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:05,439
like what you could do is just like anytime a

1864
01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:08,159
guy is airborne, if you touch him, it's a flagrant

1865
01:24:08,159 --> 01:24:11,760
too and you're out of you You're done, because that

1866
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:14,239
would really make guys be extra careful and maybe we

1867
01:24:14,279 --> 01:24:17,199
avoid some of these things. But the even the Butler

1868
01:24:17,239 --> 01:24:20,560
one was like Draymond basically pushed Aman Thompson into him

1869
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:22,319
or I think it was Thompson, and so it's like,

1870
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:25,880
there's nothing malicious there. I don't think guys ever, with

1871
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:28,279
with rare, rare exceptions, none of which come to mind,

1872
01:24:28,319 --> 01:24:30,079
like try to take guy's legs out when they're in

1873
01:24:30,119 --> 01:24:32,079
the air. That just like isn't a thing. I don't know,

1874
01:24:32,159 --> 01:24:32,720
what do you think?

1875
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:35,960
Speaker 1: I'm with you? I think Also, couldn't scott that was

1876
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:38,000
Scotti Pippen junior, right, couldn't he have just taken the

1877
01:24:38,039 --> 01:24:41,319
shot instead of whatever to just throw it out there?

1878
01:24:42,159 --> 01:24:44,239
Speaker 2: Oh, so there's all Scottie Pippin's fault. I see what

1879
01:24:44,239 --> 01:24:44,720
you're saying.

1880
01:24:45,239 --> 01:24:48,039
Speaker 1: So I'm assumed. I'm trying. I want to guess, not

1881
01:24:48,119 --> 01:24:50,560
that you necessarily have a singular takeaway, but can I

1882
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:53,520
guess what yours might be about? Sure? I have two

1883
01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:56,399
I'm gonna go. I'm gonna myself two options. It's either

1884
01:24:56,880 --> 01:24:59,960
the defense slash Alex Caruso, who is this pocket sized behemi?

1885
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:02,920
Or are you gonna talk about chet Holmgren just bombing

1886
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:04,600
away from deep in this year.

1887
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:07,880
Speaker 2: Twenty three second a half points, He's he's the Thunder's

1888
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:10,680
best player. No, I mean this is another one where

1889
01:25:12,319 --> 01:25:14,399
after game one it's just like, look what are we

1890
01:25:14,479 --> 01:25:17,359
doing this? This is ridiculous? And then game three, you know,

1891
01:25:17,399 --> 01:25:19,520
the Grizzlies are up a million points and then lose

1892
01:25:19,840 --> 01:25:22,359
probably wouldn't have lost if Moran had stayed in it. So, like,

1893
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:25,359
you know, even a single fifty point blowout doesn't just

1894
01:25:26,119 --> 01:25:28,239
you know, I mean, we don't have to keep watching

1895
01:25:29,640 --> 01:25:33,119
for the thunder though, like what I we we haven't

1896
01:25:33,199 --> 01:25:35,279
learned anything about the thunder, Like unless you want to

1897
01:25:35,640 --> 01:25:38,279
fixate on, like, oh, Sga is having a hard time scoring,

1898
01:25:38,319 --> 01:25:40,239
It's like, yeah, well he didn't have to do anything

1899
01:25:40,239 --> 01:25:42,319
in game one, and you know.

1900
01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:45,119
Speaker 1: So that's fair. But I actually think the increase in

1901
01:25:45,159 --> 01:25:47,800
chet Holmegren's like permanent three point volume is a big deal.

1902
01:25:48,279 --> 01:25:50,520
And the other thing too is maybe this is gonna

1903
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:53,920
depend on how you feel about Memphis's defense, like Jacob

1904
01:25:54,079 --> 01:25:57,039
probably just I think we can officially say the concerns

1905
01:25:57,119 --> 01:26:00,640
primary concerns that you have about okc's offense. I don't

1906
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:03,119
know if my my concerns weren't as large to begin with,

1907
01:26:03,199 --> 01:26:06,680
and they might just not be as warranted anymore. He

1908
01:26:06,760 --> 01:26:09,720
has he has made grant and I know they've made

1909
01:26:09,760 --> 01:26:11,640
life tough on SGA. But that kind of speaks to

1910
01:26:11,640 --> 01:26:13,119
Memphis game planner.

1911
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:16,000
Speaker 2: The strategy is right if you've got to try to

1912
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:18,279
take SGA out, if you have any hope of winning.

1913
01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:21,359
Speaker 1: Jay Dubb has made more unassisted two point field goals

1914
01:26:21,359 --> 01:26:22,920
than Shay Gilgers Alexander in this year.

1915
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:26,680
Speaker 2: I mean, he's got the two hard dribbles pull up

1916
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:28,039
around the elbows.

1917
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:31,600
Speaker 1: Like that's his his like patience, the cadence on ball

1918
01:26:31,640 --> 01:26:34,039
when he gets into the lane, like you go back

1919
01:26:34,039 --> 01:26:36,000
to like year one year, like just kind of like

1920
01:26:36,119 --> 01:26:38,600
night and day, Like he's just become so much more

1921
01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:41,840
dynamic from the in between. He's also shooting seventy point

1922
01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:45,239
six percent on drives to the basket in this series.

1923
01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:49,640
That's it. That's absurd. This is it's not everything because

1924
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:51,800
of what we know the Grizzlies were doing coming into

1925
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:53,920
the playoffs and then just some of the stuff that's happened.

1926
01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:56,279
But it's like you said before I went off in

1927
01:26:56,319 --> 01:26:59,399
this little tangent, is well, if teams are gonna make

1928
01:26:59,399 --> 01:27:02,000
life difficult, shake guilds, Alexander, is you need the second

1929
01:27:02,039 --> 01:27:04,119
guy who can create an advantage, whether it's for himself

1930
01:27:04,199 --> 01:27:07,960
or for others. The Knicks don't have it consistently. The

1931
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:10,159
thunder do I think that we're there. I might be

1932
01:27:10,199 --> 01:27:11,319
prepared to say that we're there.

1933
01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:14,159
Speaker 2: I mean, the numbers were trending that way. We talked

1934
01:27:14,159 --> 01:27:16,520
about it a lot of like, well, Jada by himself

1935
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,359
not so hot, but like, well that's the tiny fraction

1936
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:21,960
of the non SGA minutes because most of the time

1937
01:27:21,960 --> 01:27:24,039
he's got Chet or Hartenstein with him, and then it's

1938
01:27:24,039 --> 01:27:26,760
like it's more than fine. The offense works. It's just

1939
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:30,880
like these So yeah, I think it's like it was

1940
01:27:31,039 --> 01:27:36,600
the the can Jada be the offensive engine was always

1941
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:38,600
like the thing we went to because there's just nothing

1942
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:41,000
else to talk about with this team really, like it

1943
01:27:41,079 --> 01:27:43,880
still feels like they remember it was the lack of size,

1944
01:27:44,079 --> 01:27:45,319
and it's kind of like, well now they can go

1945
01:27:45,359 --> 01:27:46,239
du a big if they want.

1946
01:27:46,279 --> 01:27:46,840
Speaker 1: Who cares?

1947
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:48,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing, go due a big, or they could go

1948
01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:50,960
no bigs and their defense still kicks as like guards.

1949
01:27:51,039 --> 01:27:53,199
Yeah matter. Yeah.

1950
01:27:53,399 --> 01:27:56,159
Speaker 1: Did you see the play call in game three? It

1951
01:27:56,199 --> 01:27:58,239
was initially I posted it before I saw the outcome

1952
01:27:58,279 --> 01:28:00,680
of it, but they called Alex Caruso for a but

1953
01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:02,960
it was really an illegal screen on Zach Edy, and

1954
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:04,880
so my first thought was, before I saw the thunder

1955
01:28:04,960 --> 01:28:07,840
challenged it and that it was overturned, was one that

1956
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:09,840
should have been an illegal screen on Edie. And then

1957
01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:11,560
I was like and then two and it didn't even

1958
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:13,600
matter that he did, Like they could have just did none.

1959
01:28:13,640 --> 01:28:15,399
That be a play on and Alice Cruzo is still

1960
01:28:15,439 --> 01:28:18,399
busted up the play and then that strip where I

1961
01:28:18,399 --> 01:28:20,079
think they called it a block but that strip he

1962
01:28:20,159 --> 01:28:22,119
had on Triple J and the post like what is

1963
01:28:23,199 --> 01:28:25,199
I know? He can't play thirty five minutes a night

1964
01:28:25,239 --> 01:28:26,600
in some of his he was injured at one point

1965
01:28:26,640 --> 01:28:28,760
during the regular season, he's been iffy on offense, like

1966
01:28:29,399 --> 01:28:30,840
holy shit, Like.

1967
01:28:30,960 --> 01:28:34,760
Speaker 2: I mean, we've had years now where like doesn't it

1968
01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:38,920
feel like the more advanced the metric defensively, the more

1969
01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:41,760
it shows Caruso is like god, tear like it just

1970
01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:45,239
that doesn't like whatever. It's like, the less, I don't know,

1971
01:28:45,239 --> 01:28:46,920
the more niche it gets, the more it's like, oh

1972
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:48,960
my god, he's like a fifty million dollar player, Like

1973
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:51,760
you just can't like he's you know, that's I'm exaggerating,

1974
01:28:51,800 --> 01:28:53,920
but like and now you kind of see it. It's

1975
01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:56,039
and it's like it's weird that like the things he

1976
01:28:56,079 --> 01:29:00,000
does that always get him so high in defensive estimates

1977
01:29:00,079 --> 01:29:02,720
estimated plus minus and you know, Lebron and all this

1978
01:29:02,760 --> 01:29:05,479
other stuff. It's like you could just watch the game

1979
01:29:05,560 --> 01:29:10,840
and see him destroy offensive possessions with like incredible strength

1980
01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:14,560
and timing and anticipation and speed, and just like I

1981
01:29:14,680 --> 01:29:19,039
just like I don't, I don't know how he's so

1982
01:29:20,279 --> 01:29:23,039
he's just he's unbelievable, and like we have to throttle

1983
01:29:23,079 --> 01:29:25,439
back because like there are concerns with him, like sometimes

1984
01:29:25,439 --> 01:29:28,640
the shot goes cold and sometimes or just healthy, yeah,

1985
01:29:29,279 --> 01:29:31,119
or he won't take him and so like that's why

1986
01:29:31,159 --> 01:29:33,600
he's you know, making twenty million and.

1987
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:35,399
Speaker 1: Instead of fifty, instead of fifty.

1988
01:29:35,680 --> 01:29:38,479
Speaker 2: Well, and that's also why like the Bold being you know,

1989
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:41,600
dumb and all, like you know, it didn't cost him

1990
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:43,920
mint to get him, like he just there are those things.

1991
01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:47,199
But like, man, when he's it's so absurd that he's

1992
01:29:47,279 --> 01:29:50,079
like the sixth or seventh most important player on this team.

1993
01:29:50,079 --> 01:29:52,079
And maybe maybe he's higher than that, but like that

1994
01:29:52,239 --> 01:29:55,119
just speaks to what the Thunder are capable of. You

1995
01:29:55,159 --> 01:29:56,880
want to So I don't have a lot else on

1996
01:29:56,920 --> 01:29:59,520
the Thunder. It's just like they they maybe should have

1997
01:29:59,600 --> 01:30:04,239
lost three this. I think I picked it as a sweep. Yeah,

1998
01:30:04,520 --> 01:30:07,399
so did I, but like whatever, it's probably a sweep.

1999
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:09,880
Speaker 1: It's I think if I had the takeaway I mean,

2000
01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:11,000
I don't know, like when you can kind of dig

2001
01:30:11,039 --> 01:30:13,279
into the numbers. So Chet five point two to three

2002
01:30:13,279 --> 01:30:15,199
pointers per thirty six minutes in the regular season. I

2003
01:30:15,199 --> 01:30:16,720
know it's only been three games. I think he's at

2004
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:19,600
nine per thirty six in the series. That's fairly big deal.

2005
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:21,159
But the j dub stuff for me, where she's like

2006
01:30:21,560 --> 01:30:23,920
picking apart Scotty Piper, Junior's actually had some good moments

2007
01:30:23,960 --> 01:30:26,920
on Like he's picked apart Desmond Baine, he's torched Memphis

2008
01:30:26,920 --> 01:30:29,479
is Bigs when they're throwing on him. I think, if

2009
01:30:29,479 --> 01:30:31,279
you need a big takeaway for the thunder from this

2010
01:30:31,319 --> 01:30:34,079
that's not defense related, it's all right, Like the offense

2011
01:30:34,199 --> 01:30:36,520
just might have more safety valves than even people who

2012
01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:38,319
are optimistic about their offense thought.

2013
01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:45,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I caveat the Grizzlies defense sucked for like the.

2014
01:30:44,119 --> 01:30:48,920
Speaker 1: Caveat loudor uh. And then Jay dubbed themselves specifically like

2015
01:30:49,039 --> 01:30:50,600
they've shot a good number of threes and they're not

2016
01:30:50,640 --> 01:30:52,399
really making them. So it's like there are shots that

2017
01:30:52,439 --> 01:30:53,800
could also go in that have not gone in.

2018
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:55,319
Speaker 2: This could be worse, is what you're saying.

2019
01:30:55,560 --> 01:31:00,560
Speaker 1: Right, it could be five to oh through three games, right, yeah.

2020
01:31:00,680 --> 01:31:02,279
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not going to check your mouth, but

2021
01:31:02,319 --> 01:31:03,439
I think I think you're right.

2022
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:06,920
Speaker 1: We'll have to check your proprietary metrics subscription after this.

2023
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:10,960
Our final series is our final one, right, already lost count? Yeah?

2024
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:14,600
Well Diics versus Magic, We're still waiting. As we're recording this,

2025
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:17,399
I haven't heard anything about Jason Tatum's wrist injury other

2026
01:31:17,479 --> 01:31:20,600
than he missed game two obviously. I also don't think

2027
01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:23,039
it's pretty clear what we were both worried about. Well,

2028
01:31:23,079 --> 01:31:24,880
what's John Brown gonna look like? With all this knee

2029
01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:27,680
stuff going on? It's kind of clear after game two

2030
01:31:27,840 --> 01:31:30,119
that they don't need Jason Tatum to win this year.

2031
01:31:30,359 --> 01:31:33,520
Speaker 2: Is My takeaway was Jalen Brown seems pretty okay to me,

2032
01:31:33,760 --> 01:31:35,760
And that's a problem because maybe that was the way

2033
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:38,439
you'd poke a hole in Boston and say they're vulnerable.

2034
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:40,760
Speaker 1: Can I say one thing though, this one weren't counter

2035
01:31:40,880 --> 01:31:42,720
Joe Missoula and what he said about Chris Tops. It

2036
01:31:42,800 --> 01:31:46,239
was fun seeing Jaylen Brown not lead. I think that

2037
01:31:46,319 --> 01:31:46,760
was fun.

2038
01:31:47,159 --> 01:31:50,840
Speaker 2: You've always you and your don't get guys bloodied stances,

2039
01:31:50,960 --> 01:31:54,760
my anti core stances, Yeah, out of control, broken record,

2040
01:31:54,760 --> 01:31:56,640
out of you, Yeah, I don't know what else to

2041
01:31:56,680 --> 01:31:59,359
take away from Boston here. The Orlando side of it's

2042
01:31:59,359 --> 01:32:00,199
a lot more interesting.

2043
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:02,920
Speaker 1: I do the one thing I'll take I'm in agreement

2044
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:06,439
with you. The one thing I do think the Celtics

2045
01:32:06,479 --> 01:32:09,159
could be in trouble if, like they actually ever need

2046
01:32:09,279 --> 01:32:12,760
Christaps porzingis to punish mismatches against a team that won't

2047
01:32:12,800 --> 01:32:16,520
foul him. But I also like the ratcheting it up

2048
01:32:16,520 --> 01:32:18,880
from Drew Holliday in the play. Wasn't like kind of

2049
01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:21,359
the discussion, oh yeah, oh, if they're gonna make a

2050
01:32:21,479 --> 01:32:24,439
change this offseason, Like, is Drew Holliday kind of playing

2051
01:32:24,479 --> 01:32:26,800
for cementing his spot on this team? And I'm not

2052
01:32:26,840 --> 01:32:29,720
saying they couldn't survive without him, but it's just kind

2053
01:32:29,720 --> 01:32:32,640
of reiterates, Oh no, I know, Drew Holidays, it's still

2054
01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:34,920
pretty valuable player. Even if you're not happy with where

2055
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:36,000
the price point checks in.

2056
01:32:36,439 --> 01:32:38,600
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing you you would have to point

2057
01:32:38,600 --> 01:32:42,399
to if you're pre Oh my god, Jaalen Brown's knee.

2058
01:32:42,520 --> 01:32:44,960
It's like, well, what's what's Boston's biggest weekend? It's like, well,

2059
01:32:45,039 --> 01:32:47,279
holiday got I think it was the Grizzlies, Like, oh

2060
01:32:47,279 --> 01:32:50,039
he got they schemed did let him shoot seventeen threes

2061
01:32:50,079 --> 01:32:52,359
and his three point percentages down and it worked in

2062
01:32:52,359 --> 01:32:54,359
that game because it broke the offense and he couldn't

2063
01:32:54,399 --> 01:32:56,760
hit open shots and whatever. It's like, he's forty two

2064
01:32:56,760 --> 01:33:00,840
percent for the series. Looks fine. Yeah, I think I

2065
01:33:00,880 --> 01:33:04,720
think Brown looking good holiday making shots and looking good.

2066
01:33:05,479 --> 01:33:08,359
I guess the porzingist thing, You're probably right, like eventually

2067
01:33:08,399 --> 01:33:10,840
someone will figure out, like he won't shoot a hook

2068
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:12,840
shot and he turns the same way every time and

2069
01:33:12,880 --> 01:33:16,399
he's just foubating. But like it's not like the Celtics

2070
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:18,439
need that to work ten times a game, Like you

2071
01:33:18,439 --> 01:33:19,680
get two or three and you're good.

2072
01:33:20,079 --> 01:33:21,680
Speaker 1: So before we then move on to magic, can I

2073
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:25,560
ask you a question about the Celtics. If Jalen, if Jalen,

2074
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:28,000
if Jason Tatum is either hurt and he's not one

2075
01:33:28,079 --> 01:33:31,880
hundred percent he's missing games, or if he's not, who's

2076
01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:34,399
the tougher matchup for them between Detroit and New York?

2077
01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:41,880
Speaker 2: Oh uh, I kind of still think it's New York,

2078
01:33:44,119 --> 01:33:47,439
And I guess I'd say that for all the same reasons.

2079
01:33:47,479 --> 01:33:49,960
I still think the Knicks will win that series. It's

2080
01:33:50,000 --> 01:33:55,600
just like Tatum, like if Tatum doesn't play, then then

2081
01:33:55,600 --> 01:33:58,079
I I mean, like, are the Knicks favored in that series?

2082
01:33:58,279 --> 01:34:00,720
They have to be if it's Nick Celtic, don't you

2083
01:34:00,720 --> 01:34:05,720
think not playing a minute, you're still gonna favor the Celtics.

2084
01:34:06,159 --> 01:34:08,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I would probably say that the Knicks

2085
01:34:08,479 --> 01:34:10,479
are a tougher matchup for the Celtics than the Pistons.

2086
01:34:10,520 --> 01:34:12,560
Just it's it's a cop out, but it's the top

2087
01:34:12,640 --> 01:34:16,399
end talent thing and anything. I think Detroit's defense is

2088
01:34:16,439 --> 01:34:19,039
way I would say, probably way better suited to defend Boston.

2089
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:22,479
But yeah, need to generate consistent offense at some point.

2090
01:34:22,840 --> 01:34:25,479
The Knicks are gonna do that more often than Detroit

2091
01:34:25,560 --> 01:34:27,840
would be my guest, But I don't would you pick?

2092
01:34:28,079 --> 01:34:30,079
So maybe they would be favored, but would you pick

2093
01:34:30,119 --> 01:34:32,720
the Knicks to beat Boston? Just say Jason Tatum wasn't playing.

2094
01:34:32,760 --> 01:34:34,840
We know that won't be the case, but would you

2095
01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:36,359
pick I wouldn't pick the Knicks to beat.

2096
01:34:36,199 --> 01:34:38,560
Speaker 2: Boston, man, I'd have to think. Really, I think they

2097
01:34:38,600 --> 01:34:39,039
could get.

2098
01:34:38,920 --> 01:34:40,800
Speaker 1: Their first win of the season over Boston at some

2099
01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:42,600
point in that series, But not picking them.

2100
01:34:42,439 --> 01:34:44,119
Speaker 2: To win it, Well, if they are going to get one,

2101
01:34:44,159 --> 01:34:47,680
it's gonna come in games Tatum doesn't play. Uh yeah,

2102
01:34:47,720 --> 01:34:50,119
I don't know. I'd have to think harder about it.

2103
01:34:50,159 --> 01:34:53,319
But like I I don't know. I think maybe they'd

2104
01:34:53,359 --> 01:34:56,359
be favored. I'm just saying that's fine, But do you

2105
01:34:56,359 --> 01:35:00,319
think would you win the series? It would allow depend

2106
01:35:00,439 --> 01:35:02,760
on how they handle the rest of the series against Detroit.

2107
01:35:02,840 --> 01:35:04,640
Like if they just blow the doors off and everything

2108
01:35:04,640 --> 01:35:06,960
looks like it's working, well, maybe I think I might

2109
01:35:07,039 --> 01:35:09,399
pick the Knicks, But hopefully we don't have to make

2110
01:35:09,399 --> 01:35:14,880
that decision. Orlando Dan, tell me, tell me why the

2111
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:18,640
takeaway is anything other than the Magic are exactly who

2112
01:35:18,720 --> 01:35:22,800
we thought they were, for good or ill, And nothing

2113
01:35:22,840 --> 01:35:26,079
about this series has changed a single thing that we

2114
01:35:26,159 --> 01:35:27,640
came into it thinking.

2115
01:35:27,399 --> 01:35:29,920
Speaker 1: Well, actually I don't want to be so I agree

2116
01:35:29,960 --> 01:35:34,439
with you, but I am sort of wondering, like, has

2117
01:35:34,479 --> 01:35:37,359
it changed, you know how? Because pal Ben Carrol's like

2118
01:35:37,399 --> 01:35:39,960
still finding ways to do things, you know, do you

2119
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:44,880
know it's kind of not everybody else like, is it

2120
01:35:44,920 --> 01:35:47,760
has your opinion of it? We've I've been up and down,

2121
01:35:48,159 --> 01:35:50,640
like the impression spectrum on Franz Wagner. But I think

2122
01:35:50,680 --> 01:35:53,960
the ultimate takeaway is they need better spacing around them,

2123
01:35:53,960 --> 01:35:55,760
and I'll view this through the lens of bank Caro,

2124
01:35:56,239 --> 01:35:58,159
but this is this is what this This is the

2125
01:35:58,159 --> 01:36:00,359
takeaway from the series, which was the take away from

2126
01:36:00,399 --> 01:36:02,279
last year's playoffs, which has been the takeaway from this

2127
01:36:02,359 --> 01:36:05,720
team for the past few years. Ben Carroll's teammates were

2128
01:36:05,760 --> 01:36:08,039
in the fourteenth percentile of off ball gravity. This year,

2129
01:36:08,279 --> 01:36:11,159
they were in the first percentile of overall three point

2130
01:36:11,159 --> 01:36:13,560
shot making, and grant, I don't real think there's a

2131
01:36:13,640 --> 01:36:16,760
mathematically possible, but statistically they were in the zero fith

2132
01:36:16,760 --> 01:36:21,039
percentile of catching shoot three point shot making. So get

2133
01:36:21,399 --> 01:36:25,159
some just if it doesn't happen this offseason, fire everybody,

2134
01:36:25,760 --> 01:36:29,199
just fire everybody. It's they need spacing, they need an

2135
01:36:29,199 --> 01:36:32,560
advantage creator who doesn't shrink the floor. And it's just

2136
01:36:32,680 --> 01:36:35,960
the fact that they didn't. And we liked the KCP

2137
01:36:36,359 --> 01:36:38,199
signing when we thought that wasn't going to be the

2138
01:36:38,199 --> 01:36:41,359
only move that they were really gonna make. The fact

2139
01:36:41,439 --> 01:36:44,079
that we're here nothing at the trade deadline, I don't care about.

2140
01:36:44,079 --> 01:36:47,880
There's nothing last offseason. It's really disappointing. Verging on I

2141
01:36:47,880 --> 01:36:51,039
would say malpractice because your core is young, but your

2142
01:36:51,039 --> 01:36:53,600
core is getting more expensive. So you're only gonna get

2143
01:36:53,640 --> 01:36:57,199
somebody bites at the apple before this organization, I imagine

2144
01:36:57,279 --> 01:36:58,000
cheaps out.

2145
01:36:58,600 --> 01:37:01,680
Speaker 2: So two points one, Palo point one. Frand's point, Since

2146
01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:06,119
you asked, I think it's well documented that, like even

2147
01:37:06,159 --> 01:37:08,039
going back to it was sort of a bit, and

2148
01:37:08,079 --> 01:37:10,720
then it wasn't, and then maybe it was again, but

2149
01:37:11,039 --> 01:37:14,039
still sort of not. The Jadaub is better than than

2150
01:37:14,159 --> 01:37:16,880
I'd pick. I'd rather have Jadub than Powlo thing. And

2151
01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:19,000
the argument then whether it was a bit or not,

2152
01:37:19,119 --> 01:37:23,560
was that like the way that Paolo becomes the you know,

2153
01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:25,600
the best version of himself is like there's kind of

2154
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:29,000
only one way he has to be like a singular

2155
01:37:29,279 --> 01:37:33,199
offensive driver, like like you know, we're talking like top five,

2156
01:37:33,279 --> 01:37:35,960
top ten offensive players in the league, maybe top five.

2157
01:37:36,079 --> 01:37:39,479
It's like I kind of think that's there for him,

2158
01:37:39,880 --> 01:37:43,840
and that only ups the urgency to get the shooters

2159
01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:45,840
around him that you're talking about, because you're wasting it

2160
01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:51,000
right now. Like he I really do think he is

2161
01:37:51,039 --> 01:37:54,119
a good enough passer that like he can create you

2162
01:37:54,960 --> 01:37:57,960
enough open shots for teammates that just need to make them.

2163
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:00,279
And he's such a physical load, like he's still get

2164
01:38:00,279 --> 01:38:02,119
into the foul line, like nine times a game in

2165
01:38:02,159 --> 01:38:04,680
this series, even though everything is geared to stop him,

2166
01:38:04,960 --> 01:38:07,079
He's shooting over fifty percent from the field or right

2167
01:38:07,079 --> 01:38:10,479
at fifty forty six from three like somehow is only

2168
01:38:10,479 --> 01:38:13,439
averaging two turnovers despite like the whole deal is don't

2169
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:17,359
let him kill you. So I I think I think

2170
01:38:17,399 --> 01:38:21,680
Pallo like he's got a lot of all nbas in

2171
01:38:21,680 --> 01:38:23,840
his future. And then the only question is will that

2172
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:27,520
translates to team success? And and it's a yes to me,

2173
01:38:27,880 --> 01:38:30,439
It's a yes for me. Dog if if the magic

2174
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:31,439
puts some.

2175
01:38:31,359 --> 01:38:35,319
Speaker 1: Shooting there, everybody Grant's conceited, I just think that can

2176
01:38:35,359 --> 01:38:35,680
come up.

2177
01:38:36,760 --> 01:38:39,159
Speaker 2: It's still a ceiling floor thing. I just think, like

2178
01:38:39,239 --> 01:38:41,520
I'm more convinced that, oh shit, he's gonna.

2179
01:38:41,319 --> 01:38:44,560
Speaker 1: Hit the ceiling I which and you've kind of like

2180
01:38:44,640 --> 01:38:47,239
trended towards that direction over like just.

2181
01:38:47,039 --> 01:38:49,239
Speaker 2: Just became more of And now it's you know, it's

2182
01:38:49,239 --> 01:38:50,199
more obviously.

2183
01:38:49,840 --> 01:38:53,239
Speaker 1: Undeniable because the spacing within which he's needed to work

2184
01:38:53,279 --> 01:38:54,720
the past two postseasons is.

2185
01:38:54,800 --> 01:38:58,159
Speaker 2: Absolute ass well, and you ran the numbers. It's like, oh, like,

2186
01:38:58,359 --> 01:39:02,159
factually speaking, the guys he's surrounded by are as bad

2187
01:39:02,199 --> 01:39:04,560
as it gets in terms of like giving him space

2188
01:39:04,600 --> 01:39:07,319
to operate or making the shots he creates for them.

2189
01:39:07,319 --> 01:39:09,520
So it's just like we have all we've had all

2190
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:11,920
the information. Now we like really have all the information,

2191
01:39:12,279 --> 01:39:13,560
So go ahead.

2192
01:39:13,560 --> 01:39:15,159
Speaker 1: I was mass the only novel thing. I was making

2193
01:39:15,239 --> 01:39:17,399
kind of a joke about Franz Wagner. He's shooting fifty

2194
01:39:17,439 --> 01:39:20,000
eight percent on twos in the series, but six three

2195
01:39:20,000 --> 01:39:24,039
throws through two games and just grant thirty seven effective.

2196
01:39:24,079 --> 01:39:26,880
He'll go rate on jumpers, and it's just I don't

2197
01:39:26,920 --> 01:39:28,880
know that I've like, who's the last player that was

2198
01:39:28,920 --> 01:39:30,760
really good and you still think could be really good

2199
01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:33,600
where it feels like they're jump shot is deteriorated. There,

2200
01:39:33,880 --> 01:39:34,479
this is the thing.

2201
01:39:34,520 --> 01:39:37,279
Speaker 2: It's it's a real thing. Like his the aesthetics of

2202
01:39:37,319 --> 01:39:39,359
his shot are like, oh my god, that's not that's

2203
01:39:39,399 --> 01:39:41,079
never going in. Like I don't know if it's I

2204
01:39:41,079 --> 01:39:43,079
can't I haven't watched him closely enough to know if

2205
01:39:43,159 --> 01:39:47,239
like the the the like, Like I don't know it's

2206
01:39:47,239 --> 01:39:50,079
like it's buffering or like it's like skipping frames or

2207
01:39:50,119 --> 01:39:52,079
like there's a there's a hitch is the simplest way

2208
01:39:52,079 --> 01:39:54,520
to say it. Like he's just it's got to have

2209
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:58,479
some like mechanical overhauls happened. Whatever the thing is, Like

2210
01:39:58,760 --> 01:40:01,720
you can still really like as an overall player and say,

2211
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:03,720
and we did early in the season, like, oh my god,

2212
01:40:03,720 --> 01:40:06,520
he's an All NBA guy, which was a huge departure

2213
01:40:06,560 --> 01:40:08,760
because I thought the max for him was I don't

2214
01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:10,680
like it. The reason I didn't like it is because, like,

2215
01:40:10,680 --> 01:40:13,119
I don't know, is he duplicative with Polo? Like now

2216
01:40:13,159 --> 01:40:14,720
you can make the case that it's like it's not

2217
01:40:14,840 --> 01:40:17,680
just that he's duplicative, it's like he actively is unhelpful

2218
01:40:17,880 --> 01:40:21,680
because like, because Polo should have the ball, right, you

2219
01:40:21,760 --> 01:40:25,319
need secondary creators, but Polo should have the ball, and

2220
01:40:25,359 --> 01:40:29,000
that means Franz has to make shots, right, Like like,

2221
01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:32,800
how how are you helping if if you're not able

2222
01:40:32,840 --> 01:40:35,199
to cash in the shots your best player creates for you.

2223
01:40:35,439 --> 01:40:37,359
Like yeah, you can be said you can win the

2224
01:40:37,359 --> 01:40:40,279
minutes without Pawlo because Franz has the ball. That's that's good.

2225
01:40:40,640 --> 01:40:43,199
But like, the fit issues are more pronounced than ever

2226
01:40:43,560 --> 01:40:46,680
because like your second best guy that you maxed out,

2227
01:40:47,640 --> 01:40:49,880
just like I don't know, doesn't really work all that

2228
01:40:49,960 --> 01:40:52,359
well offensively with your best player. That seems like a

2229
01:40:52,399 --> 01:40:54,920
problem to me, like if he fixes a shot, if

2230
01:40:54,960 --> 01:40:57,000
he could shoot thirty six percent from three, like we're

2231
01:40:57,000 --> 01:41:00,520
done talking about it. Yeah, like from what we're seeing now,

2232
01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:01,920
Like I don't know if that's gonna happen.

2233
01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:04,720
Speaker 1: I wasn't laughing because I thought your point was rong.

2234
01:41:04,800 --> 01:41:07,199
Was laughing because actively unhelpful. It's just it's perfect, and

2235
01:41:07,279 --> 01:41:11,000
it's also just like, yeah, I've even my overreaction to

2236
01:41:11,079 --> 01:41:12,880
the series was and it was by the end of

2237
01:41:12,920 --> 01:41:15,359
game two. I was just like I would call Charlotte

2238
01:41:15,439 --> 01:41:17,159
right now and offer Franz Wagner in a package for

2239
01:41:17,239 --> 01:41:17,800
the mellow Ball.

2240
01:41:18,159 --> 01:41:20,319
Speaker 2: I love it. You see, You're You're an action You're

2241
01:41:20,359 --> 01:41:22,800
a You're a solutions guy. I just point out the problems.

2242
01:41:23,000 --> 01:41:25,439
Speaker 1: I think that's I don't think I'm the most emotional

2243
01:41:25,439 --> 01:41:27,439
person when it comes to analyzing the game, but I'm

2244
01:41:27,479 --> 01:41:30,039
way more emotional about it, Like you can detach and

2245
01:41:30,119 --> 01:41:31,960
kind of take the more. I still get into those

2246
01:41:31,960 --> 01:41:34,319
fits where it's like trade this guy and we're two

2247
01:41:34,319 --> 01:41:36,159
games into a playoff series. I think we have all

2248
01:41:36,159 --> 01:41:38,399
the evidence that he's still super valuable.

2249
01:41:38,279 --> 01:41:40,920
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, No, I I think it all ties back

2250
01:41:40,960 --> 01:41:43,279
to like I'm more. I'm just more and more convinced

2251
01:41:43,279 --> 01:41:46,640
that Pallo is is so has the capacity to be

2252
01:41:46,720 --> 01:41:49,560
so good that like you really need to just tailor

2253
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:52,640
stuff around him, and it's not it shouldn't be that hard.

2254
01:41:53,039 --> 01:41:55,119
Speaker 1: And it's kind of a it is a similar question

2255
01:41:55,199 --> 01:41:58,720
now that we had for the rockets at the open.

2256
01:41:59,039 --> 01:42:01,600
But if you believe that, how already is that offensive? Guys?

2257
01:42:01,760 --> 01:42:03,279
I mentioned LaMelo ball is the name, but I'm not

2258
01:42:03,319 --> 01:42:05,680
even sure if that that's not the level of player

2259
01:42:05,680 --> 01:42:08,720
they need to go get, right, It could be and

2260
01:42:08,760 --> 01:42:10,680
Anthony Simons is the name we can it? Could it

2261
01:42:10,720 --> 01:42:13,399
be a Kobe White, like is it does a tie Jerome?

2262
01:42:13,800 --> 01:42:15,640
If they got we're able to get him in free agency?

2263
01:42:15,720 --> 01:42:17,560
Is it what? Like do you think it needs to

2264
01:42:17,600 --> 01:42:20,199
be an all star type? Or could it be someone

2265
01:42:20,199 --> 01:42:22,000
who's more of the TI trow might be too extreme,

2266
01:42:22,039 --> 01:42:23,520
like someone of the in between.

2267
01:42:23,640 --> 01:42:27,079
Speaker 2: Honestly, like like just forget the defense because this I

2268
01:42:27,079 --> 01:42:30,640
think it's still don't need his carrying skill, Yeah, and

2269
01:42:30,680 --> 01:42:33,720
you don't need it, like offensively, a Derek White like

2270
01:42:34,000 --> 01:42:36,800
someone that just will make will make open threes, can

2271
01:42:36,840 --> 01:42:39,880
create enough on his own, will always make the connective pass,

2272
01:42:39,960 --> 01:42:41,880
Like I think that gets you a lot of mileage,

2273
01:42:41,920 --> 01:42:44,840
Like now Derek White is I mean, I think borderline

2274
01:42:44,840 --> 01:42:47,199
all NBA as it is, but like you don't need

2275
01:42:47,239 --> 01:42:51,159
the like thirty percent usage maybe can get you ten

2276
01:42:51,239 --> 01:42:54,479
assists a game. Guy, You don't necessarily need Malik Beasley

2277
01:42:54,560 --> 01:42:56,079
on the other, you know the other end of it,

2278
01:42:56,119 --> 01:42:58,279
like who just cashes in all these threes? Like you

2279
01:42:58,359 --> 01:43:02,399
just need like two more capable pass shoot, dribble players. Okay,

2280
01:43:02,479 --> 01:43:05,239
they don't need to be stars. I would worry about it.

2281
01:43:05,279 --> 01:43:08,359
Speaker 1: Derek White type is the acquisition because I wonder if

2282
01:43:08,760 --> 01:43:12,000
what does he look like outside the comfy confines of

2283
01:43:12,039 --> 01:43:16,640
Boston's existence spacing, Like is he going to create? Like

2284
01:43:16,680 --> 01:43:18,760
how much space is he going to create? As maybe

2285
01:43:18,840 --> 01:43:22,720
the what soul force of gravity on Orlando?

2286
01:43:23,000 --> 01:43:25,319
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing. It can't just be. It probably

2287
01:43:25,399 --> 01:43:27,159
can't just be one guy. I don't think.

2288
01:43:27,199 --> 01:43:29,479
Speaker 1: I think I think it could be like if you

2289
01:43:29,520 --> 01:43:31,159
put Jamal Murray on this team.

2290
01:43:31,359 --> 01:43:35,600
Speaker 2: Ooh yeah, you could really accommodated Jamal Murray too, because

2291
01:43:35,600 --> 01:43:36,800
who cares who is guarding?

2292
01:43:37,239 --> 01:43:37,439
Speaker 1: Right?

2293
01:43:37,479 --> 01:43:44,600
Speaker 2: I don't look the Magic need offensive help around. Paalo Bankaro,

2294
01:43:45,239 --> 01:43:47,960
Welcome to twenty twenty three's analysis.

2295
01:43:48,000 --> 01:43:49,600
Speaker 1: Do you have anything else to add, or you're ready

2296
01:43:49,600 --> 01:43:50,359
to take us out of here.

2297
01:43:50,640 --> 01:43:52,600
Speaker 2: I think I'll take us out of here. Really good

2298
01:43:52,680 --> 01:43:55,560
job by us under two hours talking about eight different series.

2299
01:43:56,960 --> 01:43:58,760
Let us know your thoughts on the series and and

2300
01:43:59,640 --> 01:44:02,199
miss with the this is outdated. We're recording this Friday.

2301
01:44:02,239 --> 01:44:04,039
There's gonna be three games tonight and by the time

2302
01:44:04,039 --> 01:44:05,279
you hear this, they will have happened.

2303
01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:08,680
Speaker 1: I wonder what what series, Let's let's fast forward in time.

2304
01:44:09,119 --> 01:44:10,840
What's the series that's taking place? A part that you

2305
01:44:10,840 --> 01:44:14,520
think your thoughts could like most dramatically change from the

2306
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:15,399
outcome of the game.

2307
01:44:16,520 --> 01:44:20,920
Speaker 2: Uh, if the Nuggets they don't play tonight though, so

2308
01:44:21,199 --> 01:44:23,119
of the games tonight or of Yeah, I think if.

2309
01:44:23,039 --> 01:44:24,880
Speaker 1: Lakers Timberwolves would be the one that I think could

2310
01:44:24,920 --> 01:44:26,760
age the word because I'm looking at Bucks Pacers and

2311
01:44:26,760 --> 01:44:29,840
then no, I don't. I mean, I'll be shocked if

2312
01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:33,399
anything ages poorly in Uh Celtics Magic.

2313
01:44:33,279 --> 01:44:39,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I Franz Wagner hits fourteen threes record, I'm

2314
01:44:39,279 --> 01:44:41,199
gonna go with that. If the Magic have like a

2315
01:44:41,239 --> 01:44:44,199
blowout offensive game, then we'll have to reevaluate. I don't know,

2316
01:44:44,199 --> 01:44:44,760
what do you think.

2317
01:44:45,239 --> 01:44:47,399
Speaker 1: I think it's just Lakers Timberwolves, because that's the one

2318
01:44:47,399 --> 01:44:48,840
that I was kind of like, I see a lot

2319
01:44:48,880 --> 01:44:51,520
of people who I think are smart focusing on the

2320
01:44:51,600 --> 01:44:53,439
like the Gobart and Lucas stuff and what the Lakers

2321
01:44:53,479 --> 01:44:55,039
were able to do to pick THEMP part on defense.

2322
01:44:55,319 --> 01:44:57,119
But then I'm I'm sitting here like, well, I don't

2323
01:44:57,119 --> 01:44:59,319
I don't think that's the issue. Like I maybe I

2324
01:44:59,399 --> 01:45:01,520
just don't have a great and I'm awesome pointed to like, man,

2325
01:45:01,560 --> 01:45:03,319
what if like some of the Lakers players actually start

2326
01:45:03,359 --> 01:45:03,920
hitting threes?

2327
01:45:03,960 --> 01:45:06,680
Speaker 2: What Well, we've already said, like we don't really have

2328
01:45:06,720 --> 01:45:08,600
a handle on that series yet because it's been make

2329
01:45:08,680 --> 01:45:12,520
or miss, so we've we've insulated ourselves just fine. I think. Yeah,

2330
01:45:12,520 --> 01:45:15,039
thanks everybody for listening, for watching. Remember rate review, subscribe,

2331
01:45:15,079 --> 01:45:16,880
tell your friends, tell your enemies. If you're checking this

2332
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:18,479
out on YouTube, make sure you give us a thumbs up,

2333
01:45:18,560 --> 01:45:22,680
leave us a comment there. Join our discord links for

2334
01:45:22,680 --> 01:45:25,119
that YouTube and podcast description. A good place to we

2335
01:45:25,119 --> 01:45:27,880
do the live game Campfires channel. It's typically been popping

2336
01:45:28,000 --> 01:45:30,319
Dan in the during some of these games. You want

2337
01:45:30,359 --> 01:45:32,479
to the word pop it, I did, I did, but

2338
01:45:32,520 --> 01:45:35,279
I said, typically been so it's like just square enough

2339
01:45:35,399 --> 01:45:38,479
to admit that I shouldn't be saying that we should

2340
01:45:38,479 --> 01:45:41,039
get out of here before I say anything else, shouts

2341
01:45:41,039 --> 01:45:42,560
Franklin King. Apologies, chaired down