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<v Speaker 1>Up in that tree?

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<v Speaker 2>What you doing up there?

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<v Speaker 1>Why you scared?

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<v Speaker 3>Why you run it from the red bad You ran

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<v Speaker 3>from Manto and from me man till the monkeys like

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<v Speaker 3>their female monkeysmith the bananas between the trees hanging down

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<v Speaker 3>upside down. That's a smile. Si, No tell a monkey

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<v Speaker 3>what you doing to me? Till until a monkey till

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<v Speaker 3>a mall hockey?

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<v Speaker 1>Mm hmmm h what's it doing to me?

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<v Speaker 3>De aera?

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<v Speaker 1>You are in a cult. You are not in a church.

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<v Speaker 1>You invent your own church.

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<v Speaker 4>Excuse me, you're you're just making an assumption at all

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<v Speaker 4>the saints agree, they do, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Can go read them. You have no things. You're acholarly

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<v Speaker 2>all that demon a boomer part.

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<v Speaker 4>Part A demon a boomer making an assumer that deement

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<v Speaker 4>a boomer part excuse me? A demon a boomer part

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<v Speaker 4>part you're acholar deement a boomer party a demon a

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<v Speaker 4>boomer part excuse me? Ament a boomer part part A

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<v Speaker 4>demon a boomer.

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<v Speaker 1>Making an assumption?

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<v Speaker 5>Are all the councils inspired in an errant?

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<v Speaker 2>The ecumenical stent ideas?

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<v Speaker 6>So there, ecumenical sentence are inspired in an errant?

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<v Speaker 1>Correct?

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<v Speaker 2>How do you know?

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<v Speaker 1>Because the oyster at least is another truth.

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<v Speaker 2>How do you know the oyster leads you to know

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<v Speaker 2>the truth because they're in accord with all the other

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<v Speaker 2>ecamenical doctrine, all the other things, the scriptures.

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<v Speaker 1>You're just making an assumption.

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<v Speaker 4>You're a scholarly a demon a Boomer part art. That

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<v Speaker 4>demon he a Boomer dreaking the sum A demon in

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<v Speaker 4>a Boomer card?

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<v Speaker 1>Excuse me?

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<v Speaker 2>Who's a demon in a Boomer card?

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<v Speaker 1>Part?

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<v Speaker 4>You're a collar demon.

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<v Speaker 2>In a Boomer card out day.

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<v Speaker 4>A demon in a Boomer card excuse me? A demon

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<v Speaker 4>in a Boomer card part? A demon in a Boomer

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<v Speaker 4>making a sum A demon in a Boomer card part,

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<v Speaker 4>A demon in a.

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<v Speaker 1>Boomer card excuse me?

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<v Speaker 4>A demon in a.

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<v Speaker 1>Boomer card part.

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<v Speaker 2>A demon in a Boomer card out A demon.

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<v Speaker 1>In a Boomer card Excuse me?

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<v Speaker 2>Who's a demon in a Boomer card?

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<v Speaker 1>Art?

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<v Speaker 2>You're a god?

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<v Speaker 4>A demon a Boomer dreaking an assumption assumption, A demon

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<v Speaker 4>in a Boomer card part?

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<v Speaker 2>So where do we get the Bible from? Did you

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<v Speaker 2>even read the cannons?

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<v Speaker 1>There is only one charge. You are in din occult.

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<v Speaker 3>You're a governor team a boomer so mean I'm mute, dude.

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<v Speaker 3>Is this your for someoney?

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<v Speaker 2>Interwebs?

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<v Speaker 7>I need a gender jew. Can't take it.

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<v Speaker 8>He's a little to your boys. On you, dude, you

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<v Speaker 8>want plus one plus one equal free? It comes out

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<v Speaker 8>the doll the tree.

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<v Speaker 3>Why do you pray the dead people that the traditions

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<v Speaker 3>of the heretic?

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<v Speaker 2>Un your dude, is this you for so webs?

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<v Speaker 1>Shaggy?

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<v Speaker 7>I need a gender jew?

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<v Speaker 1>Can't take it.

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<v Speaker 3>He's a little to your boys, unmute dude.

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<v Speaker 9>Justification two?

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<v Speaker 2>Hey Jamie, could you make me an espresso? Welcome everybody.

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<v Speaker 2>It's being a minute. It's been a minute since we

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<v Speaker 2>did open debate. As you know, I can't take the

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<v Speaker 2>low tier slow boys too much, so I gotta take breaks.

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<v Speaker 2>I gotta pause, I gotta go do some other things.

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<v Speaker 2>I got other things to do. But after about a month,

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<v Speaker 2>three weeks, I started thinking I wouldn't mind having a

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<v Speaker 2>stimulating intellectual discussion with someone who disagrees. Although that rarely happens,

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't it rarely happen? What do you think? Low tier

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<v Speaker 2>slow boys? But every now and then there are gems,

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<v Speaker 2>rare gems who pop up and impress me. Who knows

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<v Speaker 2>what we'll get today. But you guys know the way

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<v Speaker 2>this works. Hopefully you know the format. You can call

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<v Speaker 2>in through Twitter X. The extreme link is in the

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<v Speaker 2>chat right there. You want to call in if you disagree,

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<v Speaker 2>if you would like to present your best argument against

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<v Speaker 2>whatever my positions are. I listed a bunch of theological things.

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<v Speaker 2>If you want a debate something else. If it's in

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<v Speaker 2>the tos, we're overcround on YouTube, so we gotta be careful.

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<v Speaker 2>You can also bring up geopolitics. You can bring up moral,

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<v Speaker 2>ethical issues, feminism, any of that kind of stuff. You

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<v Speaker 2>want to bring that up. The topics listed are Islam, Catholicism, Protestism, Evangelicalism, Atheism,

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<v Speaker 2>hebrew Roots, judaism, Arians, etc. Et cetera. Gnostics, Pagans. We've

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<v Speaker 2>got some wotan pagan dudes. They want to come on

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<v Speaker 2>a debate. I'm seeing that pop up a lot more.

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<v Speaker 2>We did podcasts four or five years ago saying that

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<v Speaker 2>pagan neo pagan stuff was gonna get really popular and

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<v Speaker 2>be promoted everywhere by design. Here we are. I think

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<v Speaker 2>that's fomented and fostered. So if you want to call

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<v Speaker 2>in and make your pagan objections you can. That is

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<v Speaker 2>on the table again. You call in through Twitter, you

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<v Speaker 2>enter the X space, the Twitter space, and you hit

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<v Speaker 2>request to speak. When you come on, you will be muted.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to unmute yourself. Un mute dude. Is this

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<v Speaker 2>your first time on the internet, JAIMI, I need a

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<v Speaker 2>hair inet. You can also leave a super chat through

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<v Speaker 2>stream Labs. Shout out to stream labs for sending me

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<v Speaker 2>a hat and a hoodie because I was one of

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<v Speaker 2>the top stream labbers apparently. And next I get a coat.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm decked out in swag, corporate swag, corporate Internet

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<v Speaker 2>streaming swag. I guess that means I just beat all

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<v Speaker 2>the Internet nerds on Twitch. I beat the gamer nerds.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that what that means? I don't really know, but

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<v Speaker 2>I won the super chat competition on stream Labs. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>in the top diamond tier. But that's thanks to you guys.

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<v Speaker 2>You guys actually bought me this amazing black corporate hat

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<v Speaker 2>this stream Labs and the corporate hoodie that stream Labs. Also,

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<v Speaker 2>I get a drinking glass that says stream Labs and

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<v Speaker 2>a coat, so I have to advertise stream Labs. I

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<v Speaker 2>guess now that I don't mind the hat.

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<v Speaker 1>Those so cool.

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<v Speaker 2>And I guess gamers wear hoodies, so that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>So I could be a I could be a gamer

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<v Speaker 2>for you, guys. I could be whatever you want me

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<v Speaker 2>to be for you. Y'all want some more video game streams.

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<v Speaker 2>We did some resident Evil streams, but they didn't get

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<v Speaker 2>a whole lot of views on YouTube. But I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know what you guys want. Like, everybody always wants me

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<v Speaker 2>to play games that are you played Bloomer games? Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>well I'm not playing freaking Fortnite. I ain't playing Minecraft.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't put pixels sixteen bit pixels together. Okay, I

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<v Speaker 2>had sixteen bit pixels when I was eleven years old

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<v Speaker 2>on my Nintendo. Okay, I'm not going back to sixteen

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<v Speaker 2>eight bit pixels of blocks and squares. Bro, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know what none of that even is. I'm not a

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<v Speaker 2>Japanese man in nineteen eighty five building a video game.

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<v Speaker 2>But all of the children's the churns they want to

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<v Speaker 2>be Japanese coders in nineteen eighty five building blocked squared

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<v Speaker 2>cows and sheep and pigs. It's not my life, bro.

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<v Speaker 2>If I was gonna play a game, I might play

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<v Speaker 2>Silent Hill two or something remake because in that game,

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<v Speaker 2>you're fighting what the Illuminati, isn't it There's two games

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<v Speaker 2>where you fought the Illuminati, Resident Evil four and Silent

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<v Speaker 2>Hill too, right? Or is it Silent Hill one? What

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<v Speaker 2>am I talking about? It's called video games. The giant

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<v Speaker 2>half of the Internet is video games. You never heard

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<v Speaker 2>of that, And I'm waiting for people to call in

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<v Speaker 2>with their questions. Thank you. We have I'm talking about

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<v Speaker 2>a cult called Minecraft.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm you, dude.

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<v Speaker 2>We also have the upcoming event I want to remind

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<v Speaker 2>you guys of that. You can come see us at

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<v Speaker 2>the Horror and Alternative Film Movie Convention. They have about

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<v Speaker 2>four or five hundred people that come to this. I'll

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<v Speaker 2>be speaking Tampa Bay Screams Convention. It's a private dinner,

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<v Speaker 2>separate event though with me and I'll be giving a

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<v Speaker 2>talk on esoteric Hollywood and film. You can get tickets

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<v Speaker 2>to this right here, January nineteenth, Tampa, Yo. If you

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<v Speaker 2>like esoteric Hollywood, you're gonna love this talk and you're

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<v Speaker 2>gonna enjoy esoteric Hollywood. Three that's coming out, baby, I'm mute, dude.

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<v Speaker 2>Thirty three, yes, literally, the Masons literally control the number.

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<v Speaker 2>Thirty three anytime it pops up for you Skizo's out there.

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<v Speaker 2>That's because the Masons are literally causing the number thirty

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<v Speaker 2>three to pop up. They own it. They own numbers,

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<v Speaker 2>but only certain numbers. That makes a lot of sense.

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<v Speaker 2>We did video game analyses back in the day. We

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<v Speaker 2>did a few of those, but we didn't get many.

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<v Speaker 2>We didn't get many. A lot of that stuff doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>get many views. Basically, it's just like twenty twenty people

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<v Speaker 2>that are twenty years old want me to cover video games,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's it. Actually, I think the when we cover

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<v Speaker 2>games that did get some pretty good some good numbers.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's see what's up, y'all ready to get this going.

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<v Speaker 2>We got three or four people in line already. We're

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<v Speaker 2>gonna open it up. The way this work says, you

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<v Speaker 2>can make your argument, you can ask a question. You

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<v Speaker 2>don't have to debate. You can call in and ask

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<v Speaker 2>questions if you want to. By the way, I've not

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<v Speaker 2>been not doing anything in the past three or four days.

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<v Speaker 2>I did multiple other people's podcasts, so those should be

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<v Speaker 2>going up in the next few days. So where was

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<v Speaker 2>Jay for two days? He did in live stream. I

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<v Speaker 2>was on all these other people's podcasts. So we got

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<v Speaker 2>some good, but we got up. We did a pretty

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<v Speaker 2>sweet busy Byzantium Islam History podcast the other day. We

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<v Speaker 2>did a super sweet Philosophy of Bitcoin podcast today, and then, uh, tonight,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm supposed to do interview with a pretty big name person.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not gonna say who it is. It's gonna be

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit of a surprise, but uh, she's a

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<v Speaker 2>big name person. We're gonna have a hopefully a good

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<v Speaker 2>conversation tonight and we're gonna open it up again. You're

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<v Speaker 2>gonna be I'm muted. Unmute yourself.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm mute, dude.

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<v Speaker 2>First up, Byzantine, scumbag, That's what I'm talking about. That's

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<v Speaker 2>a name.

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<v Speaker 1>I like his name.

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<v Speaker 2>Front to Neill, friend to Neille, what's up, friend, Tanill?

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<v Speaker 1>Hey you can hear me, Yes, sir. I just want

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<v Speaker 1>to preface this by saying that I'm Orthodox. I was

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<v Speaker 1>actually baptized this past Saturday.

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<v Speaker 2>So good shout out for that. It's good. Many years

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<v Speaker 2>to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, thanks, thanks.

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<v Speaker 5>I actually got into a Twitter spat with.

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<v Speaker 1>Some guys. I don't know if you've.

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<v Speaker 10>Ever heard of this KJV only cult Baptist sext.

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<v Speaker 2>Like Steven Anderson stuff. Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know any of the people from that, but I'm familiar

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<v Speaker 2>with that. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 10>Well, they hold that, you know, the King James version

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<v Speaker 10>is the only version that's you know, sure inspired, right,

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<v Speaker 10>and I.

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<v Speaker 1>Think they only affirmed the sixty sixth book, right.

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<v Speaker 5>I just wondered what you would say in response to that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there's a lot of different ways that you could

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<v Speaker 2>go about responding to that. The first is that ironically,

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<v Speaker 2>his the King James version included the apocrypha, So if

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<v Speaker 2>you have an old KJV, you'll notice that it includes

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<v Speaker 2>the what they call the apocay for the Deutero canonical book. Secondly,

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<v Speaker 2>why are we supposed to believe that a monarch If

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<v Speaker 2>you're an independent Baptist, you're pretty much hate monarchy. Why

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<v Speaker 2>are we supposed to believe that a monarch was somehow

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<v Speaker 2>the means by which God providentially produced the supposed, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>infallible Koran version of the Bible, the KJV. Beyond that,

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<v Speaker 2>there's no reason to accept the Protestant Canada Scripture, beyond

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that Protestants just arbitrarily say it's the right

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<v Speaker 2>Canada scripture because m Jews. Well, who decided that unbelieving

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<v Speaker 2>rabbinic Jews determine the canon for the Church, So pretty

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<v Speaker 2>much all their assumptions are fundamentally stupid.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think one of them said that, like.

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<v Speaker 10>That Ortho and Catholic canons, nobody really uses it some

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<v Speaker 10>weird objections, And then I think one of them said

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<v Speaker 10>that the Dutero canon wasn't really decided upon until like,

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<v Speaker 10>I forget what he said.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's yeah, it's just simply not true. You

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<v Speaker 2>can read the Church fathers throughout the first, second, third, fourth, fifth,

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<v Speaker 2>sixth centuries. They cite liberally from the duterocanonical texts, and

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<v Speaker 2>they do not typically distinguish between what status they have.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a couple fathers that do, like Saint Jerome, but

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<v Speaker 2>even Jerome cites the duter canonical text throughout his theological argumentation,

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<v Speaker 2>and so a lot of times processes will say stuff like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>they didn't they didn't use the Dutero canonical text to

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<v Speaker 2>prove theological arguments. Yeah, they do, in fact, and Jerome

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<v Speaker 2>is not going to be any help to a Protestant

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<v Speaker 2>because Jerome believes in the perpetual virginity of Mary believes

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<v Speaker 2>in the episcopacy. He submitted to you know, his bishops.

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<v Speaker 2>You know he's believes in relics. He wrote read a

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<v Speaker 2>whole treatise against the Vidious and Vigilanteus about relics and Mary. So,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's nothing Protestant about the choices that they

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<v Speaker 2>make for the Canon. It's just literally just arbitrary. That

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<v Speaker 2>will God work through the king to through King James,

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<v Speaker 2>by the way, King James and and that whole crew,

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<v Speaker 2>like they're they're monarchs, Like why would a Baptist follow

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<v Speaker 2>a monarch? It makes no sense.

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<v Speaker 10>Well, yeah, that's that's about all I had ja, thanks

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<v Speaker 10>for that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just look up kind of some history of the

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<v Speaker 2>Canon and the formation of the Canon, because it's really

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<v Speaker 2>the Council of Trollo for the Orthodox Church, which is

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<v Speaker 2>loosely speaking our canon. Eric Clementino. But that's a great question.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think we've ever had a KJV only person

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<v Speaker 2>calling what's up?

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<v Speaker 11>Man?

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<v Speaker 12>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 11>Yes, so I am an Africa and.

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<v Speaker 2>Well out in your what.

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<v Speaker 13>No I heard before you have been a traditional Catholic. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 13>I don't know if you were SSPX or if you

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<v Speaker 13>held a Seeva Countist position. And I also I am

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<v Speaker 13>a critic of Vatican two.

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<v Speaker 14>And what made you.

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<v Speaker 13>Reject the Seevacantist position and the SPX position made you

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<v Speaker 13>commerce orthodoxy, That's my question.

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<v Speaker 2>There were several events and several things. It wasn't like

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<v Speaker 2>one single thing. Yeah, I spent Even when I was

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<v Speaker 2>a of the opinion of set of a contism, I

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<v Speaker 2>still attended the SSPX mass because it was the only

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<v Speaker 2>mass that I had access to. So, yeah, I was

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<v Speaker 2>a trad cat for many years. I would say maybe

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<v Speaker 2>age twenty three until twenty nine ish, somewhere in there

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<v Speaker 2>at twenty thirty, so about seven years of my eight

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<v Speaker 2>or nine years of Roman Catholicism. I was a trad

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<v Speaker 2>cat and a pretty hard one. Eventually, what I came

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<v Speaker 2>to I think the first difficulty was the question of

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<v Speaker 2>the Universal Ordinary Magisterium. If you read Vatican One, it's

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<v Speaker 2>very clear that you have to follow the Universal Ordinary Magisterium,

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<v Speaker 2>that it's guided by the petrion terrorism. So that meant

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't hold to the SSPX position, which is pretty

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<v Speaker 2>much premised on rejecting many decades of Universal Ordinary Magistriium,

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<v Speaker 2>including even things like the sainthood of John Paul the

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<v Speaker 2>Second and other people. So that led me into the

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<v Speaker 2>stay to position just kind of as a logical necessity

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<v Speaker 2>for like I said, several years. And then I realized

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<v Speaker 2>that the set of a constant position is probably about

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<v Speaker 2>the equivalent of Protestantism within the Roman Catholic world. It's

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<v Speaker 2>just the most factionalized, divided, split, splintered, and actually a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of crazy people. So I spent many years in

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of those different groups and circles, and I

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<v Speaker 2>went to you know, masses held in people's homes and

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<v Speaker 2>people's in you know, Hampton in mass I mean, I've

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<v Speaker 2>done all of it in that domain. And I started

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<v Speaker 2>reading the Orthodox stuff Church Fathers in about two thousand

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<v Speaker 2>and seven, and that's when I really started to have doubts.

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<v Speaker 2>But I wasn't ready to convert yet, and I would

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<v Speaker 2>say it took me another three or four years before

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<v Speaker 2>I read what I think is probably the best critique

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<v Speaker 2>of the Roman Catholic or excuse me, the set of

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<v Speaker 2>a constosposition, which is just simply that you have these

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<v Speaker 2>statements in Etsy Multa and other encyclicals that pretty much

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<v Speaker 2>equate to the rejecting of the set of a condisposition. So,

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<v Speaker 2>in other words, for set of a contism to be true,

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<v Speaker 2>you would have to reject Etsy Malta. And what's rejected

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<v Speaker 2>in Etsy Malta amounts to a rejection of the set

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<v Speaker 2>of a consposition, even though it's against the old Catholics.

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<v Speaker 2>The arguments that are made in multi apply exactly perfectly

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<v Speaker 2>to set of contism. And so the other thing that

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<v Speaker 2>I read was John Pontrello's book Cet of Couse Delusion,

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<v Speaker 2>where he argues that there's really no way to have

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<v Speaker 2>a papacy. Ever, again this leads to the conclavist position.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you want to go be a Conclavist, I

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<v Speaker 2>mean I think, I think if.

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<v Speaker 1>You're at that, I follow you.

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<v Speaker 13>And and and then also I mean you have been

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<v Speaker 13>a Catholic for a long time, and and I assume

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<v Speaker 13>being a Catholic, you did.

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<v Speaker 1>Believe in all the Mariana positions, for.

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<v Speaker 13>Example the Fatima one. Do you think they're all fake

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<v Speaker 13>or what's your opinion like for example the Fatima apparitions.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, when I was a Tradcat, I had no problem

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<v Speaker 2>saying that there are apparitions, but I always held to

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<v Speaker 2>the position that dogmatic revelations trump apparitions. So I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I was fine admitting that there were apparitions, but they

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<v Speaker 2>didn't play any like crucial role in my approach to doctrine.

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<v Speaker 2>And I remember, I mean I spent time as a

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<v Speaker 2>tradcat going down the Sister Lucy Lucia rabbit hole and

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<v Speaker 2>know what she replaced and what she cloned and all

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<v Speaker 2>this nonsense, and it was all just ended up being idiotic,

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<v Speaker 2>because yeah, I don't believe or put any credence in

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<v Speaker 2>Rome's claims of miracles now, so whether they're all faked,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but it wouldn't matter anyway, because we're

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<v Speaker 2>told not to follow signs and wonders, but to follow

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<v Speaker 2>what's been revealed. So if you base your faith on

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<v Speaker 2>signs and wonders, how are you going to tell a

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<v Speaker 2>Coptic person that they shouldn't be Coptic if Mary appears

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<v Speaker 2>in zy Tune Egypt to the Coptics.

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<v Speaker 13>Well yeah, well clear, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So apparitions can't be the deciding factor as to which

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<v Speaker 2>faith is correct. And by the way, I've talked to

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<v Speaker 2>trad cats about this and they'll actually argue, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess the apparition of Mary means that Mary also

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<v Speaker 2>is revealing herself to the Coptics, so they're part of

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<v Speaker 2>the Rumman Catholicies. So in other words, they ended up

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<v Speaker 2>making it an argument for acumenism. So it's like, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>are you a track cat or not? So you know, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But also, but also there have been multiple faked apparitions,

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<v Speaker 2>and the CIA is on record. Even E Michael Jones

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<v Speaker 2>admits that he thinks that some of these Magiagori and

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<v Speaker 2>other ones are fake.

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<v Speaker 13>Sure, yeah, sure, I mean I just think, like, for example,

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<v Speaker 13>the Fatima one.

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<v Speaker 2>So documented, Well, hold on, it's so documented. I mean

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<v Speaker 2>there were fake there were fake news stories in the

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen nineties. So how do you know it's documented because

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<v Speaker 2>a newspaper told you that a bunch of villagers in

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<v Speaker 2>Portugal saw this. How do you know that?

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<v Speaker 13>I mean, I mean they were living under socialist true,

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<v Speaker 13>and all the media was socialists, and they came there

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<v Speaker 13>to prove that these guys were just crazy, and that's

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<v Speaker 13>when their miracle happened.

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<v Speaker 2>And then that's why, Well that's the narrative about Fatima.

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<v Speaker 2>But I mean, again, there were fake news stories in

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<v Speaker 2>the eighteen nineties. Look up the bat people in the

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<v Speaker 2>Moon story. It's a famous case of the earliest fakings

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<v Speaker 2>of news stories I'm aware of. And you don't think that,

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<v Speaker 2>like if they wanted to look, here's an argument I

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<v Speaker 2>make that if you look at the purpose of Fatima,

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<v Speaker 2>Fatima seems to target Russia, and doesn't it just magically

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<v Speaker 2>happen to align with the Anglo American establishments designs during

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<v Speaker 2>the period of the Great Game against Russia of course,

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<v Speaker 2>so it's an anti Russian, pro World War One type

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<v Speaker 2>of message that if Russia doesn't convert to the papacy,

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<v Speaker 2>Russia will spread her errors. Well, did Mary not know

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<v Speaker 2>that Marxism communism is not from Russia. It's not a Russian.

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<v Speaker 13>Russian it's more anti communist. I mean it's yeah, sure,

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<v Speaker 13>but I mean didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>Well sure, all right?

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<v Speaker 2>Or what are you saying, Well, the elite are communists,

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<v Speaker 2>so they wouldn't want an anti communist message. Well, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think that the elite. I think the elite above

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<v Speaker 2>communism and capitalism. They are both. So the people who

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<v Speaker 2>wanted a World war at one point were pro like

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<v Speaker 2>the Rothchills were pro gold Standard and with Churchill as

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<v Speaker 2>they're underling. No, they were at one point, publicly against

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<v Speaker 2>communism but also secretly supporting it. So no, you can't

399
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<v Speaker 2>go by like the public pro or anti communist stance

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<v Speaker 2>necessarily to determine whether or not the elite or or

401
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<v Speaker 2>not supporting something, because the elite will play both sides

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<v Speaker 2>of these kinds of things.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I guess, I guess yeah, that was yeah, that

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<v Speaker 1>was yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean how would you?

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<v Speaker 14>Uh?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I've got the thing pulled up here as

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<v Speaker 2>a Catholic website talking about Marian apparitions at the Coptic

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<v Speaker 2>Church in Egypt. So does that prove Coptic theology? It

410
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:14.000
<v Speaker 2>was seen by uh, it was seen by thousands of

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<v Speaker 2>people too, So.

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<v Speaker 13>Yeah, I would just say, like like the denaratives of

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<v Speaker 13>the Fatima appression, for example, like it's it's it's very

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<v Speaker 13>obvious that that Portugal, Portugal was under socialist regime. The

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00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:35.240
<v Speaker 13>people who were going there, the media was going there.

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<v Speaker 13>They were going there to prove that.

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<v Speaker 1>The disguise are crazy.

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<v Speaker 13>That's that was the recently went there, and that's there

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<v Speaker 13>were many many commercials. There were photos of the of

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<v Speaker 13>the Sun and the Mida because and everything, and the

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<v Speaker 13>New York New York Times truth about it, everyone.

422
00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:54.400
<v Speaker 2>You don't think that, Okay, but you don't think there

423
00:27:54.400 --> 00:27:57.160
<v Speaker 2>were fake news stories at that time. Nobody fake news stories.

424
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:04.200
<v Speaker 5>Yes that like with that no in that fencelow in

425
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:05.200
<v Speaker 5>that pen snow.

426
00:28:05.480 --> 00:28:05.519
<v Speaker 11>No.

427
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:07.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean again, that's just simply false. There have been

428
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:10.119
<v Speaker 2>fake news stories since the eighteen nineties. Look up bat

429
00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:14.839
<v Speaker 2>people on the Moon. It's a famous case that duped

430
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:17.599
<v Speaker 2>all the intellectuals of the eighteen nineties. They literally thought

431
00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:21.160
<v Speaker 2>there were bad people on the moon because a prominent

432
00:28:21.319 --> 00:28:25.000
<v Speaker 2>public newspaper, Chicago Sun or Son Tribune or something like that,

433
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:28.880
<v Speaker 2>printed a series of articles claiming that the scientists had

434
00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:32.079
<v Speaker 2>proven that there were bat people on the moon. It's

435
00:28:32.119 --> 00:28:35.000
<v Speaker 2>a famous case, and this is way before Fatima. And

436
00:28:35.079 --> 00:28:37.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm just simply making the point that it's just it's

437
00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:39.960
<v Speaker 2>not true that there were not fake news stories on

438
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:42.920
<v Speaker 2>a large scale, and at the time of Fatima there were.

439
00:28:43.720 --> 00:28:46.799
<v Speaker 2>That doesn't prove fatimastake necessarily. But my point is that

440
00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:49.440
<v Speaker 2>what we'd have no record of what was seen in

441
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:52.559
<v Speaker 2>this village beyond these supposed newspapers.

442
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:58.160
<v Speaker 1>All right, torn sure, and yeah, yeah, I think that, Yeah,

443
00:28:58.240 --> 00:28:59.000
<v Speaker 1>I think that was my.

444
00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:05.319
<v Speaker 13>Again, what was your main argument against, Like, this is

445
00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:09.720
<v Speaker 13>a County's position and like, because yeah, well.

446
00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:11.960
<v Speaker 2>If you read John Pontrello's little book, Seat of a

447
00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:16.279
<v Speaker 2>Causees Delusion, he'll make a series of arguments that, for example,

448
00:29:16.920 --> 00:29:22.960
<v Speaker 2>you cannot have the fundamental essential components of the definition

449
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:25.720
<v Speaker 2>of the church a law of Vatican One in the

450
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:30.559
<v Speaker 2>Roman system undergo a massive change such that the Roman

451
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:34.720
<v Speaker 2>see loses its visibility. And what I mean is not

452
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:38.359
<v Speaker 2>even in reference to a period of a brief vacancy

453
00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:42.640
<v Speaker 2>until another opponent or occupant occupies the sea. I'm talking

454
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:46.880
<v Speaker 2>about the complete loss of visible unity of the entire

455
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:52.319
<v Speaker 2>church structure for seventy eighty years, which is no longer

456
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:56.079
<v Speaker 2>in Rome. If you read Vatican One, that's clearly not

457
00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:01.160
<v Speaker 2>seen as a possibility at all. It's a foregone conclusion

458
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:04.920
<v Speaker 2>that that cannot happen because it specifically says that there

459
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:08.079
<v Speaker 2>will be successors in the Seat of Peter until the

460
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:12.160
<v Speaker 2>return of Christ. Does not say until some undefined end

461
00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:14.519
<v Speaker 2>times and then there's one hundred year of vacancy or

462
00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:16.480
<v Speaker 2>whatever bull crap that set of a contest put in

463
00:30:16.519 --> 00:30:19.119
<v Speaker 2>there to make it work. It says until the end

464
00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:22.720
<v Speaker 2>till the return of Christ. So if that position is

465
00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:25.519
<v Speaker 2>going to work, you've got to have successors until the

466
00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:28.559
<v Speaker 2>return of Christ. You can't have this seventy eighty hundred

467
00:30:28.599 --> 00:30:31.759
<v Speaker 2>year vacancy of no popes. Plus all the people who

468
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:34.720
<v Speaker 2>would elect the next pope are all now also outside

469
00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:36.880
<v Speaker 2>the church and apostates. How are you going to get

470
00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:40.119
<v Speaker 2>another pope? This is where you get the idiot cult

471
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:44.319
<v Speaker 2>people at Palmar Detroita who believe they've elected a new

472
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.960
<v Speaker 2>pope through a Marian apparition, or you get the Conclavist

473
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:50.480
<v Speaker 2>who believe it because and they have the argument is

474
00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:52.359
<v Speaker 2>that you have to have popes until the end of

475
00:30:52.359 --> 00:30:54.400
<v Speaker 2>the world. That's what Betican says about it. One says,

476
00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:58.480
<v Speaker 2>so it's a dead end position, it's a defeater. It

477
00:30:58.559 --> 00:30:59.119
<v Speaker 2>doesn't work.

478
00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:03.079
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, yeah, you.

479
00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:06.400
<v Speaker 13>Should debate some set of vant Have you invited.

480
00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:07.799
<v Speaker 1>Someone like.

481
00:31:09.319 --> 00:31:12.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, actually, I've asked Jerry Madditis multiple times over the

482
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:14.160
<v Speaker 2>years to come and debate it, and you won't do it.

483
00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:18.079
<v Speaker 13>So all right, all right, yeah, thank you for letting

484
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:18.640
<v Speaker 13>me speak.

485
00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:21.519
<v Speaker 2>Good great questions. Appreciate it. Yeah, I mean read Set

486
00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:24.160
<v Speaker 2>of a Conscious Solution by John Pontrello. I also did

487
00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:27.079
<v Speaker 2>a three hour talk on the book Set of a

488
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Conscious delution liberals against leftists, and by the way, John

489
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:45.480
<v Speaker 2>Patrello became War Talks. What's up, dude, What's up dude? Anybody, Hey,

490
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:46.519
<v Speaker 2>what's on your mind?

491
00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:48.440
<v Speaker 11>Idea?

492
00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:50.359
<v Speaker 5>I wanted to get your interpretation on it.

493
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:54.880
<v Speaker 14>I'm still reading through the bib On, I'm trying to

494
00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:58.000
<v Speaker 14>figure out things. So I have an idea though, and

495
00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:03.440
<v Speaker 14>I would like your interpretation on it. So basically, I

496
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:08.759
<v Speaker 14>believe that God limits himself. He limits himself because if

497
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:11.440
<v Speaker 14>he was all powerful, it would be easy choice.

498
00:32:11.839 --> 00:32:12.480
<v Speaker 1>God is good.

499
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:17.039
<v Speaker 5>We just we don't need any faith, and so he

500
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:17.960
<v Speaker 5>limits himself.

501
00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:21.799
<v Speaker 14>And in some of the scripture it was stated that

502
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:29.200
<v Speaker 14>Arguentel Michael basically wouldn't accuse Satan of anything because that's

503
00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:32.240
<v Speaker 14>not really He's not powerful enough, He's not God.

504
00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:35.480
<v Speaker 1>He needs God to sort of back him up.

505
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:39.799
<v Speaker 14>And in my mind that means that Satan is kind

506
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:43.519
<v Speaker 14>of like an all powerful not obviously not as quite

507
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:47.759
<v Speaker 14>as as God himself. But my question is if that

508
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:51.920
<v Speaker 14>is true, if Satan is an all powerful kind of

509
00:32:52.039 --> 00:32:58.680
<v Speaker 14>like God, maybe maybe the world itself is being pulled

510
00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:04.039
<v Speaker 14>towards an equal librium good versus evil, always being pulled

511
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:07.759
<v Speaker 14>to the center. And in this center is where we

512
00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:12.839
<v Speaker 14>human beings get to choose. We choose good side versus

513
00:33:12.920 --> 00:33:15.400
<v Speaker 14>bad side. He's not God's not going to come to

514
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:18.519
<v Speaker 14>face to face and say this is me. It's easy

515
00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:22.000
<v Speaker 14>to believe, right, It's going to be more of a

516
00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:26.039
<v Speaker 14>more of a It has to be a choice. And

517
00:33:26.200 --> 00:33:30.720
<v Speaker 14>I was wondering for I was wondering if you had

518
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:34.880
<v Speaker 14>like any input on this, because I do believe God

519
00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:35.799
<v Speaker 14>is all powerful.

520
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:37.480
<v Speaker 5>He is the one true King.

521
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:38.319
<v Speaker 1>He can do anything.

522
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:40.400
<v Speaker 5>We have to build a relationship with him.

523
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:43.599
<v Speaker 2>So this is kind of so the first thing I

524
00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:45.599
<v Speaker 2>would say, it sounds like this is like a Manichy

525
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:48.920
<v Speaker 2>and Gnostic duelist type of position. So, no, Satan is

526
00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:51.720
<v Speaker 2>not like the co equivalent or the flip side of God.

527
00:33:51.880 --> 00:33:55.599
<v Speaker 2>Satan is a creature, and so everything that is created

528
00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:00.440
<v Speaker 2>is very much so inferior to the uncreated. God alone

529
00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:05.799
<v Speaker 2>is uncreated. So anything that has a created status is temporal,

530
00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:12.519
<v Speaker 2>subject to change, flux, limited, finite, et cetera. So angels

531
00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:17.079
<v Speaker 2>and we believe Satan Lucifer is an angel, He's basically

532
00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:22.519
<v Speaker 2>equivalent to a cherub or some high ranking angel according

533
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:26.559
<v Speaker 2>to Ezekiel. So the reason that Michael says in that

534
00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:32.840
<v Speaker 2>discourse that he would not rebuke the devil is because

535
00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:36.199
<v Speaker 2>of the ranking of the authority, in the same way

536
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:39.480
<v Speaker 2>that David doesn't rebuke Saul. Even though Saul is a

537
00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:43.039
<v Speaker 2>wicked king, Saul still had authority, and so he was

538
00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:46.280
<v Speaker 2>respecting the authority structure that was set up. So it

539
00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:50.280
<v Speaker 2>has nothing to do with like Satan being almost almighty

540
00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:54.000
<v Speaker 2>or close to God. No, he's not anywhere close to

541
00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:56.599
<v Speaker 2>almighty or God, because only God is almighty.

542
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:00.760
<v Speaker 5>And I do you think then that.

543
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:06.079
<v Speaker 14>God wants us to be sort of in a in

544
00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:11.880
<v Speaker 14>a continuous center, being continuously centered, so that we have

545
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:15.159
<v Speaker 14>to choose good evil kind of thing? Do you think

546
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:20.320
<v Speaker 14>he is trying to just you know, push just enough

547
00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:23.119
<v Speaker 14>so that it's just always somewhat in the middle, there's

548
00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:25.360
<v Speaker 14>always a choice, or do you think there is an

549
00:35:25.719 --> 00:35:28.719
<v Speaker 14>end goal Everything will be good eventually.

550
00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Kind of yeah. Paul says that all things will be

551
00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:34.639
<v Speaker 2>God will be all in all, will be all in

552
00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:38.320
<v Speaker 2>in all, So eventually good will be completely the norm

553
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:42.599
<v Speaker 2>and there will not be any possibility of deviation or rebellion,

554
00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:46.519
<v Speaker 2>so evil will be completely stamped out. But evil doesn't

555
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:49.360
<v Speaker 2>have being or substance. It's a privation or a negation.

556
00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:52.679
<v Speaker 2>It's not a thing. It's an action against the good

557
00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:56.400
<v Speaker 2>is all that it is. So to restore things to

558
00:35:56.480 --> 00:36:00.920
<v Speaker 2>the adenic state would be to simply remove the possibility

559
00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:05.079
<v Speaker 2>of that negation. It's not a destroying of anything physical

560
00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:05.920
<v Speaker 2>or substantial.

561
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:12.960
<v Speaker 14>So so you I understand really basically there is an

562
00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:15.400
<v Speaker 14>end goal. The end goal is to create all good

563
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:21.000
<v Speaker 14>heaven on earth and really to to get rid of evil.

564
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:25.000
<v Speaker 14>I mean basically there there is that objective goal.

565
00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:30.199
<v Speaker 2>Sure, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, So we believe it's a

566
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:34.079
<v Speaker 2>restoration of all things to their proper natural stay, which

567
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:35.320
<v Speaker 2>is what Eden was.

568
00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:36.440
<v Speaker 1>And so.

569
00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:41.440
<v Speaker 2>Evil was not what God intended according to the Deutero canon.

570
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:44.760
<v Speaker 2>It's something that went against his will. He tolerated it

571
00:36:44.840 --> 00:36:48.440
<v Speaker 2>and permitted it, but will through the actions and resurrection

572
00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:52.480
<v Speaker 2>of Christ, restore the entire universe to what was intended

573
00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:53.679
<v Speaker 2>to be the case in Eden.

574
00:36:55.760 --> 00:36:59.880
<v Speaker 14>Then then why do you think God does everything that

575
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:04.679
<v Speaker 14>he can to push towards good to get rid of evil?

576
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:09.559
<v Speaker 5>Or is he letting us kind of choose it or I.

577
00:37:09.559 --> 00:37:13.239
<v Speaker 2>Think he Yeah, we synergize and participate with God, so

578
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:16.800
<v Speaker 2>it's not an all, all one sided thing. He intends

579
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:22.039
<v Speaker 2>for there to be a period of training up in virtue,

580
00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:25.440
<v Speaker 2>a period of you know, choosing the good as you're

581
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:29.239
<v Speaker 2>putting it in to become like him before the restoration.

582
00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:33.119
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate.

583
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:36.199
<v Speaker 14>Do you have, like, any kind of scripture I can

584
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:39.760
<v Speaker 14>look up that comes to mind person clarity on this

585
00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:46.719
<v Speaker 14>about what about God's pushing of the synergy between human

586
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:51.320
<v Speaker 14>beings and God and his end goal of being Yeah.

587
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:54.840
<v Speaker 2>So basically Colossians one, two and three in Romans eight

588
00:37:55.519 --> 00:37:58.639
<v Speaker 2>describes the cosmic scope of everything that we're talking about.

589
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:03.639
<v Speaker 1>Awesome. I really appreciate it.

590
00:38:03.719 --> 00:38:03.960
<v Speaker 14>Thank you.

591
00:38:05.079 --> 00:38:07.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So to the Calvinist dude in the chat, if

592
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:10.199
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't want to call in, he just boot him. So, oh,

593
00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:11.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't have a MIC, but I don't have a

594
00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:15.239
<v Speaker 2>I only have a dial up phone. But he's sitting here.

595
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:17.599
<v Speaker 2>I don't have a I don't own a mic, but

596
00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:19.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm a pre supper. Oh no, Mike, all right, Well

597
00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:24.239
<v Speaker 2>then too bad. This isn't a vehicle for you to

598
00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:28.559
<v Speaker 2>just yap and spam the chat. So it's it's a

599
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:32.079
<v Speaker 2>vehicle for people to call in and debate. So later, dude,

600
00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:34.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking to the dude in the chat, not the

601
00:38:34.840 --> 00:38:38.280
<v Speaker 2>guy that called in so you call in here through Twitter.

602
00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:48.000
<v Speaker 2>He has a rotary phone, but he is typing on

603
00:38:48.039 --> 00:38:51.719
<v Speaker 2>the internet. Uh huh, I can't tell this dude has

604
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:59.039
<v Speaker 2>no name. Al Okwan al Okwan, Hakeem olaja Wan.

605
00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:03.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh well that was fast.

606
00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:04.840
<v Speaker 16>Hey, Jail's it going?

607
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:05.679
<v Speaker 2>What's up dude?

608
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:06.639
<v Speaker 11>Hey?

609
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:09.960
<v Speaker 1>I just wanted to bring a different kind of perspective

610
00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:12.239
<v Speaker 1>a little bit and maybe a little bit of follow

611
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:14.320
<v Speaker 1>up too. I'm not here to cause any trouble. I'm

612
00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:16.320
<v Speaker 1>not here to mock. I'm just just bringing up a

613
00:39:16.360 --> 00:39:17.559
<v Speaker 1>different idea. You know.

614
00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:20.519
<v Speaker 17>So back in the day, I remember, you know, I mean,

615
00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:22.639
<v Speaker 17>not that I was from a thousand years ago or not.

616
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:25.360
<v Speaker 17>Just from my readings, I was aware that a lot

617
00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:27.840
<v Speaker 17>of these debates were kind of solved with sword and shield.

618
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:30.400
<v Speaker 17>And my question is, why are we going back and

619
00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:32.840
<v Speaker 17>forth debating with these people when we should be killing them?

620
00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay, good job, fed, Yeah, I mean, if you think

621
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:43.440
<v Speaker 2>about it, Yeah, that's really funny. Okay, yea, I go

622
00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:48.239
<v Speaker 2>fed elsewhere fed X maybe Joe Ed Lopez? What's up?

623
00:39:55.119 --> 00:39:57.079
<v Speaker 1>Hey? So?

624
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:07.559
<v Speaker 18>Okay, so inquiring orthodox? I know there's a thing about

625
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:12.000
<v Speaker 18>salvation only found in the church. What's your thoughts on

626
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:15.880
<v Speaker 18>when people say, well, the thief on the cross was

627
00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:18.320
<v Speaker 18>you know, accepted into the kingdom.

628
00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:20.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, the thief on the cross was Orthodox.

629
00:40:20.719 --> 00:40:26.880
<v Speaker 18>So what do you mean, Well, like salvation has to

630
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:29.880
<v Speaker 18>come through the church. There's no church stablished right now.

631
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:32.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, the church is the mystical body of Christ, and

632
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:34.000
<v Speaker 2>so the thief on the cross is joined to the

633
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:35.679
<v Speaker 2>mystical body of Christ on the cross.

634
00:40:41.599 --> 00:40:44.800
<v Speaker 18>So even though he didn't have understanding of the Trinity

635
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:46.960
<v Speaker 18>or any other traditional doctoral.

636
00:40:47.079 --> 00:40:50.159
<v Speaker 2>Well, we're not saved by our degree of understanding. We're

637
00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:54.039
<v Speaker 2>saved by our repentance and humility. So understanding comes along

638
00:40:54.159 --> 00:40:57.320
<v Speaker 2>with that. So no, it's not like you get a

639
00:40:57.400 --> 00:41:01.480
<v Speaker 2>thhd to be saved. You're you're saved through repentance and humility.

640
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:03.280
<v Speaker 2>But that's great, that's a good question. I understand what

641
00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:04.559
<v Speaker 2>you're saying. No, I don't think that you have to

642
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:08.400
<v Speaker 2>master all the theology to be saved. But to the

643
00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:12.159
<v Speaker 2>evangelical person in the chat, if you're not going to

644
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:15.119
<v Speaker 2>call in, this is not for you to spam your

645
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:20.440
<v Speaker 2>complaining about people saying cuss words. So either come in

646
00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:24.920
<v Speaker 2>de bay or you leave. It's not for your virtue

647
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:31.519
<v Speaker 2>signaling here what's this person's name? They already get booted

648
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:34.400
<v Speaker 2>where they go? Hold on, I need to put this

649
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:36.639
<v Speaker 2>on lot where I see all the chat because I

650
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:41.760
<v Speaker 2>forgot to do that. There we go, Mario, the tri

651
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:46.519
<v Speaker 2>yun yahweh okay. So anybody using this goofy Hebrew names

652
00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:49.119
<v Speaker 2>for God. We already know what kind of nonsense this is.

653
00:41:49.480 --> 00:41:51.760
<v Speaker 2>So Mario, either you call in or you get booted.

654
00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:58.280
<v Speaker 2>This is not a place for messianic heresy. Chat Aw, what's.

655
00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:10.159
<v Speaker 1>Up, Hiday?

656
00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:18.960
<v Speaker 12>I have a question about baptism. Are what counts as

657
00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:21.039
<v Speaker 12>I mean, I know what baptism is. It baptism is.

658
00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:24.119
<v Speaker 12>But what I'm getting at is does it have to

659
00:42:24.199 --> 00:42:28.960
<v Speaker 12>strictly be within the Orthodox Church to be counted as baptized?

660
00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:32.079
<v Speaker 2>I mean yes, because only the Orthodox Church can give

661
00:42:32.119 --> 00:42:35.000
<v Speaker 2>you the faith. You can't divorce the sacraments from the

662
00:42:35.079 --> 00:42:37.039
<v Speaker 2>faith and the community that gives it to you. So

663
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:40.360
<v Speaker 2>it's the Roman Catholic position that thinks that atheists and

664
00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:43.480
<v Speaker 2>Muslims can baptize you. We don't believe that you have

665
00:42:43.639 --> 00:42:45.480
<v Speaker 2>to be baptized in the Orthodox Church. And that's why

666
00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:51.039
<v Speaker 2>nobody prior to the early medieval acceptance of the idea

667
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:54.719
<v Speaker 2>that pagans and atheists can baptize you. Nobody ever taught

668
00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:59.159
<v Speaker 2>that until Rome worked that out via the presuppositions of

669
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:02.920
<v Speaker 2>Exopera up rato that Augustine had. So, yes, you have

670
00:43:03.039 --> 00:43:08.320
<v Speaker 2>to be baptized in the Orthodox Church with Orthodox katechisis Now,

671
00:43:08.559 --> 00:43:11.360
<v Speaker 2>does that mean that I'm therefore damning everyone outside the church. No,

672
00:43:11.639 --> 00:43:14.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't know people's destiny outside the church. Paul says

673
00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:17.119
<v Speaker 2>that it's not our job to judge those outside the church.

674
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:21.519
<v Speaker 2>But I know that for you to have correct Orthodox baptism,

675
00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:23.480
<v Speaker 2>it's in the Orthodox Church that I do know.

676
00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:25.639
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

677
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:28.199
<v Speaker 12>So I mean if someone is baptized, say in some

678
00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:32.800
<v Speaker 12>Lutheran or even an Evangelical church, would that be null

679
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:35.559
<v Speaker 12>and void and null I actually count as baptism.

680
00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:41.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, the church can determine that maybe you were baptized

681
00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:43.960
<v Speaker 2>in the correct form, in the correct words, and in

682
00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:48.320
<v Speaker 2>the correct ritual. But the heresy in our view, and

683
00:43:48.440 --> 00:43:52.199
<v Speaker 2>ironically even Augustine believe this, even though he recognized the

684
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:57.239
<v Speaker 2>quote validity of the baptisms outside the church. The impediment

685
00:43:57.440 --> 00:44:01.360
<v Speaker 2>to the reception of the grace is the heretical confession.

686
00:44:01.639 --> 00:44:05.320
<v Speaker 2>So sometimes the Orthodox Church receives people from those groups

687
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:09.960
<v Speaker 2>via the rejection of the heresy. Sometimes the church determines

688
00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:12.639
<v Speaker 2>that you need to be baptized because it didn't even

689
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:15.599
<v Speaker 2>count as a baptism. For example, some of the novsorto

690
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Catholic churches baptized people in the name of the land,

691
00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:22.360
<v Speaker 2>the sea, and the air, so that by most, hopefully

692
00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:25.280
<v Speaker 2>most Orthodox priests and bishops would not even be considered

693
00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:29.199
<v Speaker 2>a baptism at all. So that can be abused because

694
00:44:29.239 --> 00:44:31.800
<v Speaker 2>there is a degree of economia there, and sometimes that's

695
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:34.920
<v Speaker 2>abused for the purposes of a humanism. But the basic

696
00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:39.039
<v Speaker 2>principle still stands that yes, in order for the baptism

697
00:44:39.159 --> 00:44:41.719
<v Speaker 2>to be an Orthodox baptism, it needs to be the

698
00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:45.360
<v Speaker 2>Orthodox Church baptizing you. And if the church decides that

699
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:48.960
<v Speaker 2>you don't have to be baptized because the ritual is uncorrectly,

700
00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:52.679
<v Speaker 2>then the impediment to the reception of the grace is

701
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:54.800
<v Speaker 2>removed by the rejection of the heresy.

702
00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:01.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay, oh thanks, yeah, great, great question.

703
00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we get that question all the time.

704
00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:04.639
<v Speaker 8>Uh.

705
00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:06.719
<v Speaker 2>Cal let's see, we got a bunch of people here.

706
00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:10.039
<v Speaker 2>Let's see. Uh, whoa, we just got ten people on

707
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:13.400
<v Speaker 2>line packed up. Now some people have been waiting for

708
00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:15.000
<v Speaker 2>a while. Let me find somebody's been waiting for a

709
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:20.239
<v Speaker 2>good while here, Jaguar has been waiting.

710
00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:33.320
<v Speaker 1>What's up, dude, Oh hi Jay, thanks for having me on. Hey, So,

711
00:45:33.480 --> 00:45:36.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm I wanted to talk about the Catholic perspective.

712
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:39.880
<v Speaker 19>I've been mostly convinced by Orthodoxy over the past couple

713
00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:41.960
<v Speaker 19>of years, but I've been looking into the Catholic side

714
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:44.719
<v Speaker 19>more try to make sure I don't have any blind

715
00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:46.239
<v Speaker 19>spots or too much of a bias.

716
00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:48.639
<v Speaker 2>Sure, but it.

717
00:45:48.679 --> 00:45:50.800
<v Speaker 19>Seems when I when I see debates on the two,

718
00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:53.880
<v Speaker 19>there's a lot of quote mining on both sides.

719
00:45:53.559 --> 00:45:55.840
<v Speaker 1>Where this guy this church father said this, and that

720
00:45:56.519 --> 00:45:57.280
<v Speaker 1>church father said that.

721
00:45:57.360 --> 00:46:00.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, everybody engages in unquote money, which is yeah, which

722
00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:01.639
<v Speaker 2>is kind of unfortunate, but yeah.

723
00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:04.119
<v Speaker 19>And it would seem to me the burden of truth

724
00:46:04.760 --> 00:46:07.639
<v Speaker 19>is much higher for Catholics just to the nature of

725
00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:09.280
<v Speaker 19>them claiming authority over the whole.

726
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:12.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, the Vatican One claims are pretty you know,

727
00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:14.039
<v Speaker 2>heavy duty claims.

728
00:46:14.119 --> 00:46:14.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So yeah.

729
00:46:17.480 --> 00:46:21.000
<v Speaker 19>One thing that I noticed it seems if the Pope

730
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:24.000
<v Speaker 19>is who they say he's supposed to be, that it

731
00:46:24.039 --> 00:46:27.920
<v Speaker 19>seems like one of their strongest arguments should be examples

732
00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:31.360
<v Speaker 19>of how modern popes are acting and behaving, and it

733
00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:32.800
<v Speaker 19>seems like that's the last thing.

734
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:33.639
<v Speaker 1>They want to talk about.

735
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that's the crack in the armor that

736
00:46:39.960 --> 00:46:42.719
<v Speaker 2>they feel like has to be avoided. And it's not

737
00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:45.840
<v Speaker 2>just the quote behavior of the popes, because they're always

738
00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:48.719
<v Speaker 2>going to deflect and say, well, we never claim that

739
00:46:48.800 --> 00:46:52.639
<v Speaker 2>the pope is impeccable. He's just theologically infallible when he's

740
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:57.000
<v Speaker 2>speaking execathedra blah blah blah blah blah. But that's missing

741
00:46:57.079 --> 00:47:01.440
<v Speaker 2>the point that some sins in Catholic theology are unique

742
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:05.880
<v Speaker 2>in that they remove you from the body, those being heresy, schism,

743
00:47:05.960 --> 00:47:09.920
<v Speaker 2>and apostasy. Those are unique sins in Catholic moral theology

744
00:47:09.960 --> 00:47:11.840
<v Speaker 2>and canon law, which are still on the books. It's

745
00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:14.000
<v Speaker 2>still in the modern post. Nineteen eighty three John Paul

746
00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:18.119
<v Speaker 2>the second Canon law that if you commit heresy, apostasy,

747
00:47:18.199 --> 00:47:23.239
<v Speaker 2>and schism, you are excommunicated ipso facto laate sententia, that is,

748
00:47:23.320 --> 00:47:26.679
<v Speaker 2>without any declaration of an authoritative body, by virtue of

749
00:47:26.679 --> 00:47:29.800
<v Speaker 2>the action itself. The same penalty is given for the example,

750
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:33.760
<v Speaker 2>for example, four Catholics that procure an abration. If you,

751
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:37.159
<v Speaker 2>as a Roman Catholic, a faithful procure and abraution, you

752
00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:40.599
<v Speaker 2>are supposed to be immediately excommunicated for that action. It

753
00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:43.559
<v Speaker 2>doesn't require the bishop meeting in a sonata a council

754
00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:48.480
<v Speaker 2>and pronouncing you like you know Beckett and the movie back,

755
00:47:48.639 --> 00:47:51.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh Got Extremainer ktro. It doesn't require any of that.

756
00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:55.840
<v Speaker 2>That's what the word late centinia ipso facto means. So

757
00:47:56.880 --> 00:47:59.039
<v Speaker 2>ninety nine percent of Roman Catholics don't know that. They

758
00:47:59.079 --> 00:48:01.039
<v Speaker 2>don't they're not aware of that. They don't know their

759
00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:03.800
<v Speaker 2>own theology. They just assume because they repeat all the

760
00:48:03.840 --> 00:48:07.000
<v Speaker 2>pop stuff that their car salesman. Apologists all put out

761
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:11.079
<v Speaker 2>online that the pope's not impeccable, he still has sins.

762
00:48:11.480 --> 00:48:15.000
<v Speaker 2>He's just infallible when he teaches theologically for the entire church.

763
00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:17.639
<v Speaker 2>And so I don't have to accept anything that Francis says,

764
00:48:17.800 --> 00:48:21.079
<v Speaker 2>except except when I deem that he's teaching theologically for

765
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:23.800
<v Speaker 2>the whole church. And it doesn't work like that. That's

766
00:48:23.880 --> 00:48:26.800
<v Speaker 2>not true true right when E Vatican one says that

767
00:48:26.920 --> 00:48:30.719
<v Speaker 2>you're not just bound by extraordinary magistarium, you're also bound

768
00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:34.239
<v Speaker 2>by the universal ordinary teaching, which is infallible just as

769
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:37.599
<v Speaker 2>much as extra extraordinary is and you're also bound by

770
00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:40.599
<v Speaker 2>his ordinary teaching, which is fallible, but even though it

771
00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:43.559
<v Speaker 2>might error, you must submit with docility. So there's no

772
00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:46.639
<v Speaker 2>room for this papal minimalism that they're trying to push

773
00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:50.199
<v Speaker 2>to save the position. Uh, it doesn't exist. It's nowhere

774
00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:52.199
<v Speaker 2>in the mind of Vatican one. It's a post Vatican

775
00:48:52.280 --> 00:48:56.119
<v Speaker 2>two invention of the Neotrads who want to save the

776
00:48:56.159 --> 00:48:57.280
<v Speaker 2>position and make it work.

777
00:48:58.679 --> 00:49:00.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think I saw one of them. It may

778
00:49:00.519 --> 00:49:01.320
<v Speaker 1>have been when you did.

779
00:49:01.400 --> 00:49:05.840
<v Speaker 19>Where didn't a previous pope say that you're basically excommunicated

780
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:09.840
<v Speaker 19>if you worship in another religion's temple, and then future popes.

781
00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:12.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Mortalium Animos says. It's famous and cyclical from nineteen

782
00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:15.000
<v Speaker 2>twenty eight to Pisti eleven. It says that if you

783
00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:18.400
<v Speaker 2>participate in the interfaith gatherings, it is apostasy.

784
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:22.960
<v Speaker 19>Okay, So if that pope was able to time travel

785
00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:26.159
<v Speaker 19>and show up, he would excommunicate the popes.

786
00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:26.559
<v Speaker 1>That we're here now.

787
00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:30.840
<v Speaker 2>He would probably say it's the it's the great apostasy

788
00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:34.079
<v Speaker 2>the church is you know, yeah, exactly, Yeah, I mean,

789
00:49:34.119 --> 00:49:35.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what he would say, but something like

790
00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:37.079
<v Speaker 2>that probably Yeah.

791
00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:40.000
<v Speaker 19>One last thing I wanted to ask, didn't because they

792
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:42.440
<v Speaker 19>bring up Peter as the kind of the baseline for this,

793
00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:45.559
<v Speaker 19>But didn't Peter start more than one church?

794
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:52.360
<v Speaker 2>Yes, he is the uh, the founder of multiple sees,

795
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:55.519
<v Speaker 2>the Patrian Seas. Even as late as Saint Gregory the Pope,

796
00:49:55.519 --> 00:49:58.119
<v Speaker 2>Saint Gregory the Great, he calls the Patrian Seas, Rome,

797
00:49:58.159 --> 00:50:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Alexandri and Antioch three are called by him in his

798
00:50:02.199 --> 00:50:06.039
<v Speaker 2>letters the Patrine Sees. And so what Rome does in

799
00:50:06.199 --> 00:50:08.840
<v Speaker 2>order to counter this is say, well, but Peter died

800
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:12.480
<v Speaker 2>in Rome, so it's the one that really gets the authority. Well,

801
00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:15.320
<v Speaker 2>where did that come from? That's just made up? Well,

802
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:17.079
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's not made up. It's true that Peter

803
00:50:17.199 --> 00:50:19.960
<v Speaker 2>died in Rome. But if you look through the evolution

804
00:50:20.440 --> 00:50:25.480
<v Speaker 2>of the arguments for papal supremacy and power in universality

805
00:50:25.480 --> 00:50:28.360
<v Speaker 2>and all that, it's an evolving thing. A great book

806
00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:32.079
<v Speaker 2>that just came out that discusses this is Sishinsky's book

807
00:50:33.639 --> 00:50:37.199
<v Speaker 2>Papacy in the Orthodox, which really you only need to

808
00:50:37.239 --> 00:50:39.320
<v Speaker 2>read for this for what we're talking about, you just

809
00:50:39.400 --> 00:50:42.239
<v Speaker 2>need to read the chapter that deals with like the

810
00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:45.840
<v Speaker 2>first to seventh century, which is about maybe thirty forty pages.

811
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:51.320
<v Speaker 2>It's chapters four and five. Those chapters really make this

812
00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:55.920
<v Speaker 2>point very forcefully that you have the idea of yeah,

813
00:50:56.000 --> 00:50:58.639
<v Speaker 2>Peter died in Rome. Yeah, there's you know, there's a

814
00:50:59.039 --> 00:51:02.199
<v Speaker 2>there's an honor that's due to the Petrine seas and

815
00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:05.280
<v Speaker 2>particularly at Rome, because of it being Peter and Paul.

816
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:09.280
<v Speaker 2>So it is always traditionally called the see of Peter

817
00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:11.800
<v Speaker 2>and Paul. If you go to Rome and you go

818
00:51:11.880 --> 00:51:14.360
<v Speaker 2>to the latter in Basilica, which is the old traditional

819
00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:18.119
<v Speaker 2>first Millennium seat of the Bishop of Rome, it honors

820
00:51:18.199 --> 00:51:21.320
<v Speaker 2>Peter and Paul. Even in the Vatican, Peter and Poel

821
00:51:21.320 --> 00:51:25.159
<v Speaker 2>are situated up front as if they're equal, right, But

822
00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:29.440
<v Speaker 2>the argument of Vatican I and Leo the thirteenth in

823
00:51:29.559 --> 00:51:32.880
<v Speaker 2>statist Cognitum is that you cannot say that Rome is

824
00:51:32.920 --> 00:51:35.400
<v Speaker 2>great because of Peter Mpol. Paul has nothing to do

825
00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:38.960
<v Speaker 2>with it. It's only Peter, because Peter's a martyr there,

826
00:51:39.079 --> 00:51:42.519
<v Speaker 2>and the blood of Peter in Rome is part of

827
00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:46.199
<v Speaker 2>this idea that just evolves that that therefore gives the

828
00:51:46.280 --> 00:51:53.280
<v Speaker 2>Bishop of Rome this wild infallibility universality claim that he

829
00:51:53.519 --> 00:51:55.400
<v Speaker 2>didn't have until centuries later.

830
00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:00.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, well, yeah, I'll check that book. I appreciate you.

831
00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:02.559
<v Speaker 1>I just wanted to bounce all the thoughts off you,

832
00:52:02.679 --> 00:52:03.199
<v Speaker 1>so thank you.

833
00:52:03.679 --> 00:52:06.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and everybody should read Moretalium Animals of nineteen twenty eight,

834
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:11.199
<v Speaker 2>the famous paper and cyclical absolutely condemning any form of

835
00:52:11.239 --> 00:52:15.119
<v Speaker 2>the humanism and religious interfaith prayers and gatherings. And at

836
00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:18.679
<v Speaker 2>that time, keep this in mind, Pope Pious the eleventh

837
00:52:18.840 --> 00:52:21.960
<v Speaker 2>was merely talking about other so called Christian groups. He's

838
00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:27.360
<v Speaker 2>talking about Anglicans, Orthodox and Evangelicals. He's not talking about

839
00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:32.079
<v Speaker 2>praying with freaking Muslims and Jews and Moss and Synagogues

840
00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:35.599
<v Speaker 2>and Pagans and Buddhists like John Paul the Second did

841
00:52:36.119 --> 00:52:40.159
<v Speaker 2>so the post Vatican Two popes went light years beyond

842
00:52:40.480 --> 00:52:42.960
<v Speaker 2>even what was in the mind of Pious the eleventh

843
00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:48.360
<v Speaker 2>to condemn. Does that make sense, Yeah, that makes a

844
00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:50.599
<v Speaker 2>lot of sense. He's just saying, Bro, you can't even

845
00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:53.360
<v Speaker 2>pray with Anglicans, how much more can you not pray

846
00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:54.239
<v Speaker 2>with freaking Buddhists.

847
00:52:54.320 --> 00:52:54.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

848
00:52:55.039 --> 00:52:58.800
<v Speaker 19>I think overall their claims are are pretty pretty ridiculous,

849
00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:02.199
<v Speaker 19>and they were just at anywhere at the level they

850
00:53:02.239 --> 00:53:03.400
<v Speaker 19>would have to be in a back up.

851
00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:06.119
<v Speaker 1>What they're what they're trying to say is what it

852
00:53:06.159 --> 00:53:08.280
<v Speaker 1>seems like to me. I'm not very smart or well

853
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:08.920
<v Speaker 1>educated on.

854
00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:11.920
<v Speaker 2>This, but well you don't have to be an expert

855
00:53:11.960 --> 00:53:16.639
<v Speaker 2>on it to see pretty clearly that the if you

856
00:53:16.719 --> 00:53:20.519
<v Speaker 2>read that Sushinsky chapter, you'll notice that, oh, it's an

857
00:53:20.599 --> 00:53:24.880
<v Speaker 2>evolving thing, like this idea of you know, for example,

858
00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:27.639
<v Speaker 2>Rome was always listed first because it was the Sea

859
00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:29.880
<v Speaker 2>of where Peter and Paul were martyred, so there's an

860
00:53:29.920 --> 00:53:33.039
<v Speaker 2>honor that's given to Rome. But the fact that say,

861
00:53:33.320 --> 00:53:36.480
<v Speaker 2>the Council of Nicea lists Rome as the first of

862
00:53:36.559 --> 00:53:40.400
<v Speaker 2>the seas by you know, eight hundred years later, that

863
00:53:40.519 --> 00:53:45.920
<v Speaker 2>has evolved into like total autocracy. So it's clearly an evolution.

864
00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:49.360
<v Speaker 2>And here's the irony. This is another key contradiction. If

865
00:53:49.400 --> 00:53:52.199
<v Speaker 2>you read Vatican One, if if you read Sati's Cognitium

866
00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:54.280
<v Speaker 2>of Leo the thirteenth, these are very important, you know,

867
00:53:55.039 --> 00:53:59.360
<v Speaker 2>papal documents about the papasy. They argue that it's not

868
00:53:59.440 --> 00:54:04.000
<v Speaker 2>an evolving thing. So it's later Roman Catholic apologetics post

869
00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Cardinal Newman that adopted the idea that, well, the way

870
00:54:08.039 --> 00:54:11.320
<v Speaker 2>to actually defend and prove this papacy stuff via Vatican one,

871
00:54:11.920 --> 00:54:14.519
<v Speaker 2>and what Vatican was claiming is we have to concede

872
00:54:14.559 --> 00:54:17.159
<v Speaker 2>that there's an evolution in this idea. It's a seed

873
00:54:17.239 --> 00:54:22.400
<v Speaker 2>that grows into a tree. But Vatican one and Pasture

874
00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Attornis and Satist Cognitium reject the idea that it evolved.

875
00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:30.079
<v Speaker 2>In fact, they claim that it was always universally the

876
00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:32.719
<v Speaker 2>case from the earliest days of the Church. So it

877
00:54:32.840 --> 00:54:35.519
<v Speaker 2>can't be both. It can't be something that was always

878
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:38.239
<v Speaker 2>universally held and true and something that was a seed

879
00:54:38.320 --> 00:54:40.480
<v Speaker 2>that evolved. Those are mutually exclusive ideas.

880
00:54:44.719 --> 00:54:47.840
<v Speaker 19>Yeah, I mean everything about it just seems very arbitrary

881
00:54:47.960 --> 00:54:49.519
<v Speaker 19>to me on their sides.

882
00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:52.440
<v Speaker 2>So, well, have you read Dictatus pape I.

883
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:56.159
<v Speaker 1>Mean that, Yeah, I have it. I watched debates on YouTube.

884
00:54:56.199 --> 00:54:59.360
<v Speaker 19>I haven't really read anything to be honest about this topic,

885
00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:00.639
<v Speaker 19>but probably should.

886
00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Well.

887
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:02.679
<v Speaker 2>I mean this is when you know, in the eleventh century,

888
00:55:02.719 --> 00:55:07.440
<v Speaker 2>the papacy becomes a geopolitical world power estate and actually

889
00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:10.719
<v Speaker 2>takes on all the machinations and operations of the state,

890
00:55:10.840 --> 00:55:13.000
<v Speaker 2>including warfare intelligence agencies.

891
00:55:13.239 --> 00:55:15.360
<v Speaker 1>So what year would have been this view?

892
00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Approximately the tatas Pappy is ten to ninety, but it's

893
00:55:19.039 --> 00:55:22.440
<v Speaker 2>under the papacy of greg Gregory the seventh and this

894
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:24.679
<v Speaker 2>is called the Gregorian reforms. This is when you have

895
00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:28.400
<v Speaker 2>a vast change in the ecclesial structure in the Latin

896
00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:32.480
<v Speaker 2>Church from what was previously the model of the Orthodox

897
00:55:32.559 --> 00:55:36.239
<v Speaker 2>sonodal Church and in the these are called the Gregorian

898
00:55:36.320 --> 00:55:39.679
<v Speaker 2>reforms because it turns the Latin Church into the papal church.

899
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:46.039
<v Speaker 2>And this is well known. This is admitted now by

900
00:55:46.079 --> 00:55:51.000
<v Speaker 2>Eastern Roman Catholic scholars. Devornik Sashansky used to be a Unia,

901
00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:55.599
<v Speaker 2>it became Orthodox. It's admitted by Kongar and others. It's

902
00:55:55.679 --> 00:55:58.559
<v Speaker 2>by the way, if you just read the Vatican's recent

903
00:55:58.679 --> 00:56:09.440
<v Speaker 2>declarations on history on Orthodox discussion, the Alexandria document from

904
00:56:09.559 --> 00:56:12.400
<v Speaker 2>June of twenty twenty three, it admits all this. So

905
00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:14.000
<v Speaker 2>the Vaticans basically admitted all this.

906
00:56:15.159 --> 00:56:16.559
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I will check that out.

907
00:56:17.559 --> 00:56:21.320
<v Speaker 19>Yeah, I mean I honestly I wrote off the back

908
00:56:21.400 --> 00:56:24.719
<v Speaker 19>when the news with the Catholic Church and the PDF

909
00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:30.639
<v Speaker 19>file stuff was it everywhere. I completely wrote off ever

910
00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:36.599
<v Speaker 19>even considering it until more recently when I've learned about Orthodoxy,

911
00:56:36.679 --> 00:56:38.960
<v Speaker 19>and then I thought I should give it a fair shake.

912
00:56:38.960 --> 00:56:39.719
<v Speaker 1>Or at least try to.

913
00:56:40.599 --> 00:56:44.039
<v Speaker 2>So, No, I think it's good to know their arguments

914
00:56:44.159 --> 00:56:45.800
<v Speaker 2>and know like kind of what.

915
00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:48.719
<v Speaker 1>The I mean. When you only hear their side, they

916
00:56:48.800 --> 00:56:50.519
<v Speaker 1>can sound convincing.

917
00:56:50.119 --> 00:56:52.639
<v Speaker 2>If well, yeah, I fell for it. I fell for

918
00:56:52.840 --> 00:56:55.320
<v Speaker 2>I fell for papal quote minds. I fell for forged

919
00:56:55.760 --> 00:56:57.719
<v Speaker 2>papal quotes back in my twenties. That's why I was

920
00:56:57.800 --> 00:57:03.960
<v Speaker 2>Roman Catholic. Yeah, so YEA great question for a long time.

921
00:57:04.119 --> 00:57:07.079
<v Speaker 2>So well, same here. So I get you like to

922
00:57:07.159 --> 00:57:12.039
<v Speaker 2>become orthonoxy Yeah, great questions, and keep keep looking into it,

923
00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:24.320
<v Speaker 2>keep searching. California Prepper, what's up? I'm you dude?

924
00:57:27.159 --> 00:57:28.559
<v Speaker 1>Can you hear me? All right? I'm driving?

925
00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:33.639
<v Speaker 2>Hi, know what's up? Man? Hey Jamie? Okay, go ahead.

926
00:57:35.719 --> 00:57:36.440
<v Speaker 1>I have a question.

927
00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:38.679
<v Speaker 6>I have a family member who likes to flirt with

928
00:57:38.719 --> 00:57:42.320
<v Speaker 6>the Gnostic ideas, and I tried to have discussions with him,

929
00:57:42.920 --> 00:57:46.199
<v Speaker 6>and he likes to quote like the Infancy Gospel of

930
00:57:46.280 --> 00:57:51.159
<v Speaker 6>Thomas and say also like, hey, the church throughout all

931
00:57:51.280 --> 00:57:54.280
<v Speaker 6>this scripture because they're they were corrupt, they wanted to

932
00:57:55.599 --> 00:57:58.119
<v Speaker 6>like have their own power and not have any other

933
00:57:58.239 --> 00:57:59.119
<v Speaker 6>ideas in there.

934
00:57:59.159 --> 00:58:00.719
<v Speaker 1>How would I respond to some sort.

935
00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:02.559
<v Speaker 2>Of argument like that, Well, I mean, this is always

936
00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:06.000
<v Speaker 2>what Gnostics say, But when you really get into the

937
00:58:06.719 --> 00:58:11.119
<v Speaker 2>Gnostic worldview, you'll find out that it's like really contradictory

938
00:58:11.199 --> 00:58:15.960
<v Speaker 2>and really arbitrary. For one, there's not one Gnostic worldview.

939
00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:18.639
<v Speaker 2>There's not a Gnostic tradition. There's a ton of different

940
00:58:19.159 --> 00:58:22.679
<v Speaker 2>Gnostic sects from the first, second, third century, and they're

941
00:58:22.679 --> 00:58:26.719
<v Speaker 2>all over the place. They range from extreme asceticism to

942
00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:31.639
<v Speaker 2>extreme indulgence to ritual magic. I mean, they're essentially all

943
00:58:31.719 --> 00:58:33.800
<v Speaker 2>over the place. If you read the first few hundred

944
00:58:33.800 --> 00:58:38.159
<v Speaker 2>pages of Saint Aaronais's Against Heresies, the first few hundred

945
00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:40.400
<v Speaker 2>pages is him listing all the Gnostic sects of the

946
00:58:40.440 --> 00:58:43.639
<v Speaker 2>second century. So there's not a Gnosticism. So the first

947
00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:46.199
<v Speaker 2>thing I would go about trying to demonstrate to this

948
00:58:46.280 --> 00:58:50.000
<v Speaker 2>person is that ultimately the position that he's got is

949
00:58:50.239 --> 00:58:55.000
<v Speaker 2>itself very relativistic. And I've never met a Gnostic who's

950
00:58:55.039 --> 00:58:58.519
<v Speaker 2>not a relativist. Doesn't mean there might not be one

951
00:58:58.559 --> 00:59:01.800
<v Speaker 2>out there that believes and objective morals, But if your

952
00:59:01.840 --> 00:59:06.000
<v Speaker 2>position is a relativistic, you know, moral framework, it's pretty

953
00:59:06.039 --> 00:59:08.239
<v Speaker 2>easy to refute that. So I would just point out

954
00:59:08.440 --> 00:59:12.159
<v Speaker 2>do a basic presup of his ethics and morals as relativistic.

955
00:59:12.719 --> 00:59:15.599
<v Speaker 2>And if the morals and the ethics are relativistic, then

956
00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:20.079
<v Speaker 2>is gnosticism also relativistic. So if it's relativistic, then it's

957
00:59:20.119 --> 00:59:23.400
<v Speaker 2>not true. To be true requires it to have universal

958
00:59:23.480 --> 00:59:27.000
<v Speaker 2>truth value, and if gnostissism is relativistic, then it doesn't

959
00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:30.320
<v Speaker 2>have that. It's it's a fundamental epistemic contradiction.

960
00:59:35.039 --> 00:59:37.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay, thank you. Any resources that you can guide me towards.

961
00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:40.360
<v Speaker 2>For extra stuff to learn, Yeah, I've done. I did

962
00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:42.960
<v Speaker 2>a talk on Aeronaus against heresies, and I have two

963
00:59:43.039 --> 00:59:46.000
<v Speaker 2>talks on my channel that are old critiquing gnosticism. So

964
00:59:46.119 --> 00:59:49.199
<v Speaker 2>just look up Jay Dyer gnosticism. I also did a

965
00:59:49.239 --> 00:59:52.840
<v Speaker 2>whole talk on Yarslav Pelicon's Volume one, which covers the

966
00:59:52.960 --> 00:59:56.719
<v Speaker 2>history of these early sex and gnostics. It's a it's

967
00:59:56.760 --> 01:00:04.159
<v Speaker 2>a classic sort of seminary text. Peter Putt teach us. Uh,

968
01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:08.480
<v Speaker 2>what's up, dude? What's a hook?

969
01:00:08.559 --> 01:00:08.800
<v Speaker 1>Doude?

970
01:00:10.719 --> 01:00:12.559
<v Speaker 2>Is this your first time on the internet?

971
01:00:20.119 --> 01:00:22.760
<v Speaker 1>Jape, Hey this is doctor Pete.

972
01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:25.559
<v Speaker 20>I don't know this talk like jumped for a few seconds,

973
01:00:25.599 --> 01:00:26.920
<v Speaker 20>but hey, thanks for having me.

974
01:00:27.320 --> 01:00:28.519
<v Speaker 1>I'm a cradle orthodox.

975
01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:31.679
<v Speaker 20>One of the comments on sort of the moving target

976
01:00:31.880 --> 01:00:35.480
<v Speaker 20>of the understanding of marriage and the Roman Catholic Church.

977
01:00:35.960 --> 01:00:37.440
<v Speaker 1>You know, recently we've heard of them.

978
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:42.360
<v Speaker 20>Discussing topics about homosexual marriage, transgender concepts.

979
01:00:42.880 --> 01:00:44.239
<v Speaker 11>As an Orthodox Christian.

980
01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:46.840
<v Speaker 20>I never really quite understood a lot of these discussions.

981
01:00:47.440 --> 01:00:50.679
<v Speaker 20>Some rules don't seem that we can break. Others seem

982
01:00:50.840 --> 01:00:53.840
<v Speaker 20>like they've they've broken them unnecessarily. I think back to

983
01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:57.280
<v Speaker 20>why and how priests used to marry the Roman Catholic Church.

984
01:00:57.719 --> 01:00:59.760
<v Speaker 20>I can tell you my father was an eye surgeon

985
01:00:59.800 --> 01:01:00.800
<v Speaker 20>and a priest.

986
01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:02.039
<v Speaker 1>And he had five sons.

987
01:01:02.360 --> 01:01:07.719
<v Speaker 20>And I don't know why, in this age of secularism, humanism,

988
01:01:08.440 --> 01:01:10.840
<v Speaker 20>that we don't just go back to our roots and

989
01:01:11.159 --> 01:01:15.599
<v Speaker 20>free a billion Catholics from having to endlessly defend a

990
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:19.840
<v Speaker 20>fallen position, which is sort of putting priesthood.

991
01:01:19.320 --> 01:01:21.559
<v Speaker 1>Against the sacrament of marriage.

992
01:01:22.480 --> 01:01:24.679
<v Speaker 20>And I'm just trying to understand the mindset of Roman

993
01:01:24.760 --> 01:01:27.880
<v Speaker 20>Catholic in terms of why, why that's not something they're

994
01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:30.280
<v Speaker 20>willing to compromise on. When you consider that they're willing

995
01:01:30.360 --> 01:01:34.079
<v Speaker 20>to compromise on, you know, well, let's just say making

996
01:01:34.159 --> 01:01:35.679
<v Speaker 20>room for homosexual marriage.

997
01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:38.519
<v Speaker 2>In the Christian Church. That's a great point. Yeah, if

998
01:01:38.559 --> 01:01:41.880
<v Speaker 2>you're going to compromise, or from what you see as compromise,

999
01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:45.599
<v Speaker 2>would why would you not go back to the tradition,

1000
01:01:45.800 --> 01:01:48.800
<v Speaker 2>which is actually the old, ancient tradition of married priests.

1001
01:01:50.039 --> 01:01:53.079
<v Speaker 2>I think most Roman Catholics don't even know that. They

1002
01:01:53.159 --> 01:01:56.440
<v Speaker 2>don't realize that. They think that that's a Protestant argument,

1003
01:01:56.800 --> 01:01:58.280
<v Speaker 2>So they hear something like that and they think, oh,

1004
01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:01.880
<v Speaker 2>that's Protestant, So they just assume kind of default, that

1005
01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:07.239
<v Speaker 2>that married priests are abnormal when they're actually the normal,

1006
01:02:07.719 --> 01:02:10.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, ancient normal state. They also aren't aware that

1007
01:02:10.960 --> 01:02:13.559
<v Speaker 2>the Council of Trello affirms married priests, and that the

1008
01:02:13.599 --> 01:02:17.519
<v Speaker 2>sixth and seventh Councils affirm Trullo. And then they don't

1009
01:02:17.559 --> 01:02:20.760
<v Speaker 2>even realize that the papacy, especially had the seventh Ecumenical

1010
01:02:20.840 --> 01:02:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Council also by default a firm Trullo. So at one

1011
01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:27.159
<v Speaker 2>point they did a firm married priest and then didn't.

1012
01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:29.760
<v Speaker 2>So they're just not aware of and they're usually very

1013
01:02:29.800 --> 01:02:33.519
<v Speaker 2>reticent to accept any kind of historical arguments like this

1014
01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:36.960
<v Speaker 2>because it's it's an und They see it as an

1015
01:02:37.039 --> 01:02:41.880
<v Speaker 2>unfalsifiable system. Uh So, and you know, the reality is,

1016
01:02:41.960 --> 01:02:43.480
<v Speaker 2>and I was I was a trad cat I was

1017
01:02:43.519 --> 01:02:46.039
<v Speaker 2>in that world for almost a decade. The reality is

1018
01:02:46.119 --> 01:02:49.599
<v Speaker 2>that it's like all over the place. There's not really

1019
01:02:49.719 --> 01:02:52.519
<v Speaker 2>a Roman Catholicism. The only thing that quote unites them

1020
01:02:52.639 --> 01:02:57.599
<v Speaker 2>is this verbal acceptance of being Catholic. When you know,

1021
01:02:57.760 --> 01:02:59.639
<v Speaker 2>you can have one guy over here who thinks that

1022
01:02:59.719 --> 01:03:02.719
<v Speaker 2>the Sades are true Catholicism, and you got James Martin

1023
01:03:02.760 --> 01:03:04.760
<v Speaker 2>over here who thinks that, you know, the essence of

1024
01:03:04.800 --> 01:03:08.800
<v Speaker 2>with Allism is Skittle's marriage. So they're all over the place.

1025
01:03:10.679 --> 01:03:12.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it just seems like low hanging fruit.

1026
01:03:13.039 --> 01:03:15.000
<v Speaker 20>You know, like in order for us to embrace the

1027
01:03:15.039 --> 01:03:17.559
<v Speaker 20>twenty first century and like move forward to more substance

1028
01:03:17.599 --> 01:03:21.360
<v Speaker 20>of discussions, can we just solve this marriage dilemma resulting

1029
01:03:21.400 --> 01:03:26.480
<v Speaker 20>in so much carnage and and allow Christians to kind

1030
01:03:26.519 --> 01:03:27.599
<v Speaker 20>of clean themselves off.

1031
01:03:27.519 --> 01:03:30.840
<v Speaker 1>And move on to higher end and topics. Right, But

1032
01:03:31.519 --> 01:03:33.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, I just it just it reminds me of

1033
01:03:33.039 --> 01:03:33.840
<v Speaker 1>when Kamala.

1034
01:03:33.559 --> 01:03:36.440
<v Speaker 20>Harris was asked, you know, are there any mistakes you've

1035
01:03:36.440 --> 01:03:38.039
<v Speaker 20>made over the last four years, and she said I

1036
01:03:38.039 --> 01:03:40.199
<v Speaker 20>couldn't think of any. I just I just feel like

1037
01:03:40.280 --> 01:03:44.920
<v Speaker 20>it's so disingenuous, and when there's something so important and meaningful,

1038
01:03:46.159 --> 01:03:50.280
<v Speaker 20>why why not just take that off the table from discussion.

1039
01:03:50.480 --> 01:03:52.920
<v Speaker 2>And also it's you know, it's a great point. Thank

1040
01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:56.599
<v Speaker 2>you for your questions. And also I think they you know,

1041
01:03:56.719 --> 01:03:58.760
<v Speaker 2>it's not so much the Catholics sort of on the

1042
01:03:58.800 --> 01:04:02.639
<v Speaker 2>ground or the precis. It's the fact that the Vatican,

1043
01:04:02.719 --> 01:04:06.880
<v Speaker 2>in my view, is a captured institution for the global elite.

1044
01:04:07.159 --> 01:04:10.159
<v Speaker 2>So they're not going to make any moves back in

1045
01:04:10.239 --> 01:04:14.519
<v Speaker 2>the direction of wholesome integrity, family and all that because

1046
01:04:14.519 --> 01:04:19.199
<v Speaker 2>they're they're captive to a greater geopolitical power which absolutely

1047
01:04:19.239 --> 01:04:31.320
<v Speaker 2>has no interest in the wholesome hades. What's up, yop,

1048
01:04:32.079 --> 01:04:32.800
<v Speaker 2>what's on your mind?

1049
01:04:34.239 --> 01:04:34.719
<v Speaker 1>Can you hear me?

1050
01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:39.599
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, just from the other guy who was talking about

1051
01:04:39.679 --> 01:04:42.400
<v Speaker 7>the narcissism for his friend, I did want to bring

1052
01:04:42.519 --> 01:04:46.079
<v Speaker 7>up that and also a great argument against narcissism if

1053
01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:48.800
<v Speaker 7>you want to hit it from like a more historical

1054
01:04:49.800 --> 01:04:52.559
<v Speaker 7>view that he was talking about the Gospel of Thomas

1055
01:04:52.599 --> 01:04:55.599
<v Speaker 7>and all the other gospels, but all of our New

1056
01:04:55.679 --> 01:04:59.360
<v Speaker 7>Testament gospels can be actually we're actually quoted by a

1057
01:04:59.440 --> 01:05:03.079
<v Speaker 7>really early church fathers near around one hundred eighty. All

1058
01:05:03.440 --> 01:05:08.800
<v Speaker 7>of the Gnostic gospels were quoted. We didn't even exist

1059
01:05:08.960 --> 01:05:12.800
<v Speaker 7>until about three hundred eighty or four hundred eighty after.

1060
01:05:13.719 --> 01:05:16.840
<v Speaker 7>So even if you were to, he doesn't think you're

1061
01:05:16.960 --> 01:05:19.840
<v Speaker 7>pre He doesn't go for the precept. None of the

1062
01:05:19.960 --> 01:05:23.280
<v Speaker 7>Nastic Gospels are anywhere near the time of the Church Fathers.

1063
01:05:23.320 --> 01:05:25.039
<v Speaker 7>There are hundreds of years after.

1064
01:05:25.440 --> 01:05:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, great, great point. Yeah, thank you. And also like

1065
01:05:28.440 --> 01:05:30.840
<v Speaker 2>the stories that you read in there are kind of

1066
01:05:30.880 --> 01:05:33.840
<v Speaker 2>wacko and crazy, but I mean you have basically some

1067
01:05:34.039 --> 01:05:37.679
<v Speaker 2>of those making their way into the Quran. So great point.

1068
01:05:37.800 --> 01:05:44.199
<v Speaker 2>Classic husband. What's up to the trad? Cats in the chat?

1069
01:05:45.519 --> 01:05:45.840
<v Speaker 2>Call in?

1070
01:05:49.239 --> 01:05:49.400
<v Speaker 1>Hey?

1071
01:05:50.280 --> 01:05:50.960
<v Speaker 2>What's on your mind?

1072
01:05:51.039 --> 01:05:56.360
<v Speaker 1>Maw you there?

1073
01:05:57.679 --> 01:06:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Can you hear me? Hey, Jamie, you're cutting out?

1074
01:06:04.920 --> 01:06:05.000
<v Speaker 1>Bro?

1075
01:06:05.199 --> 01:06:08.760
<v Speaker 2>Maybe call back? Call back in? Pop out, pop back

1076
01:06:08.800 --> 01:06:12.320
<v Speaker 2>in because we can't hear you. Tribe called Jake, what's up, dude?

1077
01:06:16.119 --> 01:06:16.320
<v Speaker 21>You know?

1078
01:06:16.840 --> 01:06:17.159
<v Speaker 1>Sorry?

1079
01:06:17.599 --> 01:06:18.840
<v Speaker 5>I thought you called somebody else.

1080
01:06:19.000 --> 01:06:20.119
<v Speaker 1>I didn't realize you were calling me.

1081
01:06:20.159 --> 01:06:22.719
<v Speaker 2>How you doing, Jays? Hey?

1082
01:06:23.000 --> 01:06:23.639
<v Speaker 12>I had a question.

1083
01:06:23.800 --> 01:06:26.559
<v Speaker 22>I was debating a friend, one of my you know,

1084
01:06:26.679 --> 01:06:32.239
<v Speaker 22>previous Protestant friends. And from what I understand after listening

1085
01:06:32.280 --> 01:06:35.159
<v Speaker 22>to a lot of your content on Protestantism, there's like

1086
01:06:35.239 --> 01:06:39.480
<v Speaker 22>a it's like you make the case that mainly it's

1087
01:06:39.599 --> 01:06:45.280
<v Speaker 22>issues with the position start from an epistemological perspective, and

1088
01:06:45.559 --> 01:06:48.719
<v Speaker 22>and you kind of attack the Protestant position.

1089
01:06:48.840 --> 01:06:51.880
<v Speaker 2>Well sometimes, I mean sometimes I argue from history. Uh

1090
01:06:52.239 --> 01:06:54.760
<v Speaker 2>so it just kind of depends on what Protestant I'm

1091
01:06:54.760 --> 01:06:55.119
<v Speaker 2>talking to.

1092
01:06:55.320 --> 01:06:57.840
<v Speaker 1>Sure, Yeah, that that's actually a good point.

1093
01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Go ahead, are you there? Hello?

1094
01:07:07.559 --> 01:07:09.679
<v Speaker 1>Hello? Yeah, I can hear me.

1095
01:07:09.800 --> 01:07:18.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, go ahead. So it looks people's connections are going out,

1096
01:07:18.599 --> 01:07:20.760
<v Speaker 2>so maybe pop back out, pop back in. I'll come

1097
01:07:20.800 --> 01:07:22.719
<v Speaker 2>back to you the last two guys. El I asked

1098
01:07:22.760 --> 01:07:25.440
<v Speaker 2>five dollars? Have you ever covered the incidents at Waco

1099
01:07:25.599 --> 01:07:28.599
<v Speaker 2>Reby Ridge and Okay see Uh yeah, but it's been

1100
01:07:28.639 --> 01:07:34.199
<v Speaker 2>many years. As we talked about that, I remember the

1101
01:07:34.320 --> 01:07:36.840
<v Speaker 2>Terrence Yankee story is spooky and memory hole. Do you

1102
01:07:36.920 --> 01:07:38.800
<v Speaker 2>mean spooky in the sense of like being a spook

1103
01:07:38.920 --> 01:07:39.800
<v Speaker 2>or just creepy?

1104
01:07:40.800 --> 01:07:40.920
<v Speaker 23>Uh?

1105
01:07:42.039 --> 01:07:42.519
<v Speaker 1>The uh?

1106
01:07:45.039 --> 01:07:50.480
<v Speaker 2>What's the Oka See documentary? It's a really good documentary

1107
01:07:50.480 --> 01:07:52.360
<v Speaker 2>they put out maybe ten years ago. And I'm going

1108
01:07:52.440 --> 01:07:54.119
<v Speaker 2>blank on that, but that one was a good when

1109
01:07:54.119 --> 01:07:56.880
<v Speaker 2>everybody watched that. But yeah, I mean I've been listening

1110
01:07:56.920 --> 01:07:59.119
<v Speaker 2>to Lord Voldemort since two thousand and three, so I

1111
01:07:59.280 --> 01:08:01.440
<v Speaker 2>was there for all that period when he covered all

1112
01:08:01.480 --> 01:08:07.239
<v Speaker 2>that stuff. Extensively. Also, if you can find it. One

1113
01:08:07.239 --> 01:08:11.320
<v Speaker 2>of the best things on OKAC is James Corbett's deep

1114
01:08:11.440 --> 01:08:15.760
<v Speaker 2>dive into Tim McVay. That's a really important one. I

1115
01:08:15.840 --> 01:08:18.520
<v Speaker 2>don't know all the details of Ruby Ridge. I know

1116
01:08:19.039 --> 01:08:22.000
<v Speaker 2>a decent amount about Waco. I remember one of the

1117
01:08:22.039 --> 01:08:25.279
<v Speaker 2>first documentaries I watched from Lord Valdemore was Wake Up

1118
01:08:25.359 --> 01:08:32.880
<v Speaker 2>or Waco. Yeah, wake Up or Waco. I know a

1119
01:08:32.920 --> 01:08:34.560
<v Speaker 2>little bit about Ruby Ridge, but not a whole lot,

1120
01:08:34.680 --> 01:08:37.600
<v Speaker 2>but thank you for that. Yeah, just check out Corbett's

1121
01:08:39.239 --> 01:08:42.199
<v Speaker 2>thing on McVeigh and how he was sheep dipped in

1122
01:08:42.359 --> 01:08:47.199
<v Speaker 2>the what is the I don't can't remember that OKAC documentary,

1123
01:08:47.239 --> 01:08:50.119
<v Speaker 2>but it's really good. Haiti's ond at thirty dollars day,

1124
01:08:50.119 --> 01:08:52.640
<v Speaker 2>I envoid. You enjoyed your video with Dean about Book

1125
01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:58.840
<v Speaker 2>of Revelation, specifically the point of learning from those people

1126
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:01.399
<v Speaker 2>who are non Orthodox. Well, we shouldn't be surprised. I

1127
01:09:01.479 --> 01:09:03.279
<v Speaker 2>mean this is if you read the Church Fathers, this

1128
01:09:03.359 --> 01:09:05.840
<v Speaker 2>is pretty common. I mean, you know, Basil said you

1129
01:09:05.840 --> 01:09:09.359
<v Speaker 2>should get a classical education. Basil and the Cappadocians relied

1130
01:09:09.399 --> 01:09:12.680
<v Speaker 2>heavily on origin, even though everybody knows Origin was heterodox.

1131
01:09:15.359 --> 01:09:20.680
<v Speaker 2>Augustine relied heavily on the commentaries of Tico the Donatist.

1132
01:09:20.920 --> 01:09:25.279
<v Speaker 2>So this is very common, and many people have, you know,

1133
01:09:25.439 --> 01:09:28.079
<v Speaker 2>read Totillian, Tourtolian ended up heterodox. It doesn't mean that

1134
01:09:28.159 --> 01:09:32.680
<v Speaker 2>we can't, you know, read and gain insights from Tertullian.

1135
01:09:33.199 --> 01:09:36.880
<v Speaker 2>And I mean same principle for Plato and Aristotle. I

1136
01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:44.199
<v Speaker 2>mean John Damascus, Saint Maximus, they read Porphyry, Plato, Aristotle,

1137
01:09:44.760 --> 01:09:48.279
<v Speaker 2>they read all these guys and gleaned great points. If

1138
01:09:48.279 --> 01:09:50.359
<v Speaker 2>you read Fount of Knowledge by Saint John Dmascus, it

1139
01:09:50.439 --> 01:09:53.960
<v Speaker 2>relies heavily on Aristotle. So the idea that like we

1140
01:09:54.199 --> 01:09:56.720
<v Speaker 2>never read anything but an orthonox person it is just

1141
01:09:56.840 --> 01:09:59.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of a weird. It's almost like a weird Protestant

1142
01:10:00.159 --> 01:10:03.800
<v Speaker 2>to solo scripture attitude, which is just not even accurate

1143
01:10:03.920 --> 01:10:07.439
<v Speaker 2>or historical. I say this because I was Orthodox, and

1144
01:10:07.560 --> 01:10:10.079
<v Speaker 2>I got in Orthodoxy from watching a lot of doctor

1145
01:10:10.199 --> 01:10:12.840
<v Speaker 2>Michael Heiser. Yeah, Michael Heiser. A lot of people don't

1146
01:10:12.840 --> 01:10:14.960
<v Speaker 2>know this. He was a subscriber to my website for

1147
01:10:15.119 --> 01:10:20.600
<v Speaker 2>many years, and although we never chatted, I don't think

1148
01:10:20.640 --> 01:10:22.640
<v Speaker 2>we ever. There might have been an email at one point,

1149
01:10:22.680 --> 01:10:25.319
<v Speaker 2>but we never chatted personally. I always intended to get

1150
01:10:25.399 --> 01:10:27.439
<v Speaker 2>him on to do a podcast before he passed away.

1151
01:10:28.640 --> 01:10:32.319
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I read doctor Heiser over the years. I

1152
01:10:32.479 --> 01:10:36.199
<v Speaker 2>remember reading his Divine Council stuff, maybe even as early

1153
01:10:36.239 --> 01:10:40.399
<v Speaker 2>as like two thousand and seven. So yeah, I think

1154
01:10:40.439 --> 01:10:44.560
<v Speaker 2>he was very insightful for his exegesis. I mean, I've

1155
01:10:44.600 --> 01:10:47.960
<v Speaker 2>got liturgical I've got books back here by Anglican liturgical

1156
01:10:48.000 --> 01:10:51.520
<v Speaker 2>scholars and historians. I've got books by UNI eight historians

1157
01:10:51.560 --> 01:11:01.520
<v Speaker 2>and scholars. I mean, it's kind of obvious that there

1158
01:11:01.560 --> 01:11:05.359
<v Speaker 2>are truths and people have truths and wisdom and knowledge

1159
01:11:05.439 --> 01:11:10.720
<v Speaker 2>even outside of the Orthodox Church. Bill Ward ten dollars.

1160
01:11:11.319 --> 01:11:13.760
<v Speaker 2>There are those who say that the idea of Mary's

1161
01:11:13.800 --> 01:11:17.399
<v Speaker 2>perpetual virginity comes from apocryphal texts. Well, it's true that

1162
01:11:17.760 --> 01:11:21.119
<v Speaker 2>the pro Evangelica James and these kind of things are

1163
01:11:21.199 --> 01:11:24.800
<v Speaker 2>not quote in the canon. But from the Orthodox vantage point,

1164
01:11:25.159 --> 01:11:29.319
<v Speaker 2>that's not really a problem because for us, there are traditions,

1165
01:11:29.439 --> 01:11:32.319
<v Speaker 2>and there are true traditions outside of the canonical texts.

1166
01:11:32.920 --> 01:11:35.880
<v Speaker 2>So there might, for example, be an oral tradition that's

1167
01:11:35.920 --> 01:11:39.479
<v Speaker 2>outside of the written Biblical texts that was passed down

1168
01:11:39.640 --> 01:11:43.520
<v Speaker 2>and maybe somebody recorded it in the proto Evangelic of

1169
01:11:43.600 --> 01:11:45.680
<v Speaker 2>James or some other thing where it got recorded in

1170
01:11:45.760 --> 01:11:49.000
<v Speaker 2>a liturgical setting or a poem or whatever. And so

1171
01:11:49.359 --> 01:11:52.479
<v Speaker 2>although we wouldn't necessarily claim the entire document or the

1172
01:11:52.720 --> 01:11:58.159
<v Speaker 2>entire noncnonical texts as part of the tradition, those texts

1173
01:11:58.199 --> 01:12:02.239
<v Speaker 2>can have elements of tradition. Sample the Dedicay has true

1174
01:12:02.279 --> 01:12:04.880
<v Speaker 2>elements of tradition, But we don't accept everything in the Dedicay, right,

1175
01:12:04.920 --> 01:12:07.840
<v Speaker 2>it's not part of the Canonscripture. But many church fathers

1176
01:12:08.319 --> 01:12:12.439
<v Speaker 2>thought that the Dedicay was canonical. Many church fathers thought

1177
01:12:12.800 --> 01:12:15.039
<v Speaker 2>First and Second Clement were part of the New Testament.

1178
01:12:15.640 --> 01:12:19.399
<v Speaker 2>So even though some of the documents that these tech are,

1179
01:12:19.439 --> 01:12:24.359
<v Speaker 2>these kinds of texts end up being Pseudobograthha or pseudonymous

1180
01:12:24.640 --> 01:12:27.520
<v Speaker 2>or outside the canon. The Book of Enich is cited

1181
01:12:27.560 --> 01:12:29.720
<v Speaker 2>in the Book of Jude, and so we would say, yeah,

1182
01:12:29.760 --> 01:12:33.560
<v Speaker 2>the Book of Enich has true tradition. There's nothing anti

1183
01:12:33.680 --> 01:12:36.960
<v Speaker 2>orthodox about that. It's obviously is true. But it doesn't

1184
01:12:37.000 --> 01:12:39.680
<v Speaker 2>mean that I have to put Enoch in the Canonscripture

1185
01:12:39.760 --> 01:12:42.279
<v Speaker 2>on the same level as the Gospels or Paul.

1186
01:12:42.520 --> 01:12:42.640
<v Speaker 1>Right.

1187
01:12:43.239 --> 01:12:47.119
<v Speaker 2>So I think in the Orthodox Church we recognize levels

1188
01:12:47.439 --> 01:12:51.119
<v Speaker 2>of this stuff. That's why in the liturgy the Gospels

1189
01:12:51.159 --> 01:12:54.239
<v Speaker 2>are given a place above Paul and above the Old Testament.

1190
01:12:54.399 --> 01:12:57.399
<v Speaker 2>So there's levels to this, and usually the people that

1191
01:12:57.560 --> 01:12:59.359
<v Speaker 2>say this kind of stuff, it's just really based on

1192
01:12:59.479 --> 01:13:03.880
<v Speaker 2>kind of really low tier Protestant objections. But great question,

1193
01:13:04.039 --> 01:13:08.399
<v Speaker 2>bill Ward. They say the concept was created around the

1194
01:13:08.479 --> 01:13:10.720
<v Speaker 2>year three hundred. The problem with this argument from a

1195
01:13:10.800 --> 01:13:13.920
<v Speaker 2>Protestant is that this cuts both ways because if you're

1196
01:13:13.960 --> 01:13:17.520
<v Speaker 2>going to require a written proof of a document of

1197
01:13:17.600 --> 01:13:20.560
<v Speaker 2>a doctrine post eighty three hundred, which is what the

1198
01:13:20.680 --> 01:13:23.079
<v Speaker 2>argument assumes that in other words of Protestant saying, I'm

1199
01:13:23.119 --> 01:13:27.720
<v Speaker 2>not going to believe anything from this patristic period unless

1200
01:13:27.760 --> 01:13:30.239
<v Speaker 2>there's quote written evidence after the year three hundred or

1201
01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:35.560
<v Speaker 2>something like this, there's no where's the Protestant canon prior

1202
01:13:35.640 --> 01:13:39.680
<v Speaker 2>to the year three hundred. It doesn't exist. So you

1203
01:13:39.720 --> 01:13:42.079
<v Speaker 2>see how that cuts both ways, and that what that

1204
01:13:42.199 --> 01:13:44.920
<v Speaker 2>shows is that the Protestant doesn't actually hold to that principle.

1205
01:13:45.239 --> 01:13:48.199
<v Speaker 2>It's a double standard that he's erected to where he's saying, well,

1206
01:13:48.239 --> 01:13:52.279
<v Speaker 2>i have my Protestant canon, which doesn't have any real

1207
01:13:52.439 --> 01:13:56.359
<v Speaker 2>hardcore evidence for existing prior to the year three hundred,

1208
01:13:56.640 --> 01:13:58.760
<v Speaker 2>but I'm going to require that you give me the

1209
01:13:58.800 --> 01:14:01.800
<v Speaker 2>written textual evidence for perpetual virginity at Mary prior to

1210
01:14:01.840 --> 01:14:04.680
<v Speaker 2>three hundred. So you see, it's an arbitrary double standard.

1211
01:14:04.720 --> 01:14:07.439
<v Speaker 2>Their own position doesn't have that which is built on

1212
01:14:07.520 --> 01:14:10.800
<v Speaker 2>soul scripture for the most part, storm the cat ten dollars.

1213
01:14:10.880 --> 01:14:13.079
<v Speaker 2>I started reading the Book of Revelation Explaining trilogy by

1214
01:14:13.159 --> 01:14:16.199
<v Speaker 2>James Jordan Dean Ardel. That's really good. Yeah, for those

1215
01:14:16.279 --> 01:14:18.640
<v Speaker 2>that are interested. We did do this interview the other day.

1216
01:14:18.800 --> 01:14:22.239
<v Speaker 2>My godfather has spent the last four years kind of

1217
01:14:22.319 --> 01:14:27.399
<v Speaker 2>collating the lectures of James Jordan over the years on

1218
01:14:27.479 --> 01:14:31.039
<v Speaker 2>the Book of Revelation into this three volume series Revelation

1219
01:14:31.119 --> 01:14:35.279
<v Speaker 2>Explain which is available at his website deanw Arnold dot com.

1220
01:14:35.319 --> 01:14:37.439
<v Speaker 2>And if you go over to the interview that we did,

1221
01:14:38.079 --> 01:14:41.319
<v Speaker 2>the book links are in the show description. I've not

1222
01:14:41.439 --> 01:14:43.119
<v Speaker 2>had a chance yet to get to it because I'm

1223
01:14:43.159 --> 01:14:45.319
<v Speaker 2>reading this espionage book that we're going to cover next.

1224
01:14:45.359 --> 01:14:48.439
<v Speaker 2>I'm almost halfway through it, Black Gold Spies, which is

1225
01:14:48.520 --> 01:14:51.920
<v Speaker 2>really really good and it actually relates to theology because

1226
01:14:51.920 --> 01:14:56.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot of these spies used religious cover. So but

1227
01:14:57.039 --> 01:15:01.279
<v Speaker 2>I do look forward to getting into Dean's Dean's presentation

1228
01:15:01.439 --> 01:15:04.239
<v Speaker 2>of James short because Dean add it did a lot

1229
01:15:04.279 --> 01:15:09.640
<v Speaker 2>of editing. Fun seven seven seven j What are your

1230
01:15:09.640 --> 01:15:12.159
<v Speaker 2>thoughts on the Dark Soul series. It's very lore heavy

1231
01:15:12.199 --> 01:15:15.359
<v Speaker 2>and esoteric. I tried playing it, and I'm sorry. I mean,

1232
01:15:16.079 --> 01:15:17.760
<v Speaker 2>so there's a couple of things going on here when

1233
01:15:17.760 --> 01:15:19.319
<v Speaker 2>it comes to I saw. I'm not a huge gamer,

1234
01:15:19.399 --> 01:15:22.680
<v Speaker 2>but I like to, you know, maybe on maybe one

1235
01:15:23.079 --> 01:15:26.079
<v Speaker 2>night a week, I unwind. And this is really only

1236
01:15:26.119 --> 01:15:27.960
<v Speaker 2>when it's winter and it's freezing and you can't do

1237
01:15:28.000 --> 01:15:30.600
<v Speaker 2>anything outside. I might for a night or two a

1238
01:15:30.680 --> 01:15:33.920
<v Speaker 2>week unwined with a video game. Usually it's something that

1239
01:15:34.800 --> 01:15:38.159
<v Speaker 2>is not infinite plays, do you know what I mean? Like,

1240
01:15:38.760 --> 01:15:41.880
<v Speaker 2>I like a game I can beat in ten twenty

1241
01:15:42.000 --> 01:15:44.359
<v Speaker 2>thirty hours, which is the way they used to make

1242
01:15:44.439 --> 01:15:46.680
<v Speaker 2>video games, because I don't want to live my life

1243
01:15:46.720 --> 01:15:48.880
<v Speaker 2>in a freaking video game. So, for example, I was

1244
01:15:48.960 --> 01:15:52.359
<v Speaker 2>interested in the new Zelda, but then I noticed that, oh,

1245
01:15:52.399 --> 01:15:55.279
<v Speaker 2>this actually has like hundreds of hours of playtime more

1246
01:15:55.479 --> 01:15:58.319
<v Speaker 2>than the previous Zelda. Well, I'm not I don't My

1247
01:15:58.600 --> 01:16:01.119
<v Speaker 2>time is valuable. I'm not gonna I don't want to

1248
01:16:01.239 --> 01:16:04.840
<v Speaker 2>put hundreds of hours into tiers of the Kingdom or whatever.

1249
01:16:05.279 --> 01:16:07.680
<v Speaker 2>It's just too much, dude. Just give me a freaking

1250
01:16:08.479 --> 01:16:12.600
<v Speaker 2>Drake's Quest uncharted. You know, tomb Raider eat Resident Evil

1251
01:16:12.640 --> 01:16:14.479
<v Speaker 2>that I can beat in eight hours. That's fun to me.

1252
01:16:15.479 --> 01:16:18.880
<v Speaker 2>And also, I mean Black Ops is fun, but I mean, honestly,

1253
01:16:19.079 --> 01:16:23.199
<v Speaker 2>like it's so addictive, like you just get addicted to

1254
01:16:23.279 --> 01:16:27.920
<v Speaker 2>sitting there and you know, trying to trying to get

1255
01:16:27.960 --> 01:16:30.560
<v Speaker 2>headshots for like eight hours. It's like, I just can't

1256
01:16:30.640 --> 01:16:32.880
<v Speaker 2>do that, Like this, My time is too valuable to

1257
01:16:33.479 --> 01:16:37.319
<v Speaker 2>blow it on the even Black Ops. So when you

1258
01:16:37.479 --> 01:16:40.520
<v Speaker 2>say Dark Soul series, I remember trying out one of

1259
01:16:40.560 --> 01:16:43.840
<v Speaker 2>them and like, if it's gonna take me hours just

1260
01:16:43.920 --> 01:16:47.319
<v Speaker 2>to figure out the freaking mechanisms and controls, I mean,

1261
01:16:47.359 --> 01:16:48.199
<v Speaker 2>it's just too much.

1262
01:16:48.359 --> 01:16:48.479
<v Speaker 1>Man.

1263
01:16:48.560 --> 01:16:52.079
<v Speaker 2>I can't. Like video games have gotten way too dorky

1264
01:16:52.239 --> 01:16:55.319
<v Speaker 2>and complex, and they used to be fun. I'd rather

1265
01:16:55.439 --> 01:16:58.760
<v Speaker 2>just play Mario Kart with Jamie. That's way more fun

1266
01:16:59.439 --> 01:17:05.920
<v Speaker 2>than sapping five thousand hours into some you know, soy realm,

1267
01:17:06.119 --> 01:17:08.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm just joking. I mean, I've always liked role playing games.

1268
01:17:08.960 --> 01:17:11.560
<v Speaker 2>I've always played. I played every Final Fantasy, so I

1269
01:17:11.640 --> 01:17:15.520
<v Speaker 2>get it. I understand Storm the Cat five dollars do

1270
01:17:15.560 --> 01:17:18.760
<v Speaker 2>you think the verses were Paul rebukes the Judaizers are

1271
01:17:18.800 --> 01:17:21.840
<v Speaker 2>sufficient to refute modern dispensationalists. You know what, that's a

1272
01:17:21.880 --> 01:17:26.439
<v Speaker 2>great point, I mean ideal, like, yeah, basically you would

1273
01:17:26.439 --> 01:17:29.880
<v Speaker 2>think they would be. And you know, even when I

1274
01:17:30.039 --> 01:17:32.920
<v Speaker 2>was a kind of a nube, you know, reading the

1275
01:17:32.960 --> 01:17:36.359
<v Speaker 2>Bible for the first time ages eighteen, nineteen twenty, I

1276
01:17:36.439 --> 01:17:39.039
<v Speaker 2>actually had a dispensation. I've got my skillfild study Bible

1277
01:17:39.039 --> 01:17:43.319
<v Speaker 2>over there. Still I remember even being like struggling with

1278
01:17:43.399 --> 01:17:47.199
<v Speaker 2>some of those verses. I remember like, like, what what

1279
01:17:47.720 --> 01:17:51.319
<v Speaker 2>if dispensationalism is true? Why is Paul speaking this way

1280
01:17:51.399 --> 01:17:53.119
<v Speaker 2>in these in these texts? It's just it was it

1281
01:17:53.239 --> 01:17:56.039
<v Speaker 2>was a struggle. Uh So I think that's a really

1282
01:17:56.319 --> 01:17:58.199
<v Speaker 2>key point, storing the cat. But you know what's funny

1283
01:17:58.199 --> 01:18:01.840
<v Speaker 2>about theology is that a lot of times the stuff

1284
01:18:01.880 --> 01:18:09.399
<v Speaker 2>that you would think is clear insufficient. A lot of

1285
01:18:09.479 --> 01:18:12.479
<v Speaker 2>times it isn't. Quantum comment are five dollars? What's the

1286
01:18:12.520 --> 01:18:16.520
<v Speaker 2>response to the Protestant that says, so scripture is wrong?

1287
01:18:18.079 --> 01:18:20.119
<v Speaker 2>Are they even Protestant at that point? Well, that's a

1288
01:18:20.119 --> 01:18:23.760
<v Speaker 2>good point. I mean, if a Protestant is saying solo

1289
01:18:23.760 --> 01:18:27.560
<v Speaker 2>scripture is wrong, then they're departing from the Classical Reformation tradition.

1290
01:18:28.199 --> 01:18:32.000
<v Speaker 2>So you know, you're not really Protestant if you don't

1291
01:18:32.039 --> 01:18:35.840
<v Speaker 2>believe in the solos. I would argue you're something else. Right,

1292
01:18:35.960 --> 01:18:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Maybe you're moving in the direction of High Church Anglican

1293
01:18:38.880 --> 01:18:41.359
<v Speaker 2>or something like that, which is what we've seen a

1294
01:18:41.399 --> 01:18:43.680
<v Speaker 2>lot of Protestants like, right, like James Jordan. Right, James

1295
01:18:43.760 --> 01:18:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Jordan was at one point hardcore Calvinists, you know, reform dude.

1296
01:18:50.119 --> 01:18:53.000
<v Speaker 2>And then you know, over time he's moving and now

1297
01:18:53.039 --> 01:18:57.319
<v Speaker 2>he's wearing he wears a collar, and he's dressing up

1298
01:18:57.439 --> 01:18:59.800
<v Speaker 2>like he's an Anglican. And you know, even though he's

1299
01:18:59.800 --> 01:19:02.439
<v Speaker 2>not action Anglican, you would think he's an Anglican by

1300
01:19:02.439 --> 01:19:06.640
<v Speaker 2>the way he looks and dresses right, and he wants liturgy,

1301
01:19:06.640 --> 01:19:15.079
<v Speaker 2>and he wants this and that. So I mean I would.

1302
01:19:15.119 --> 01:19:17.039
<v Speaker 2>I would. So if a Protestant said, well, look, I

1303
01:19:17.039 --> 01:19:20.159
<v Speaker 2>don't believe in sold scripture, so why should I believe,

1304
01:19:20.359 --> 01:19:22.239
<v Speaker 2>I would just say it, Well, then give me a

1305
01:19:22.319 --> 01:19:25.840
<v Speaker 2>coherent account of where we get the canon and how

1306
01:19:25.880 --> 01:19:27.479
<v Speaker 2>that comes about, right, I mean, in other words, you

1307
01:19:27.560 --> 01:19:30.479
<v Speaker 2>can't What you eventually learn is that you can't divorce

1308
01:19:30.640 --> 01:19:33.960
<v Speaker 2>the Bible from history. And if you can't divorce the

1309
01:19:34.000 --> 01:19:37.439
<v Speaker 2>Bible from history, then it's intimately necessarily bound up with

1310
01:19:37.600 --> 01:19:40.520
<v Speaker 2>the community that put it together. And so then the

1311
01:19:40.600 --> 01:19:44.439
<v Speaker 2>question is logically, well, what was that community, what was

1312
01:19:44.520 --> 01:19:47.520
<v Speaker 2>the belief system of that community? Well, guess what, it's

1313
01:19:47.600 --> 01:19:50.680
<v Speaker 2>not Protestant. There are no Protestants in the first thousand years.

1314
01:19:51.079 --> 01:19:54.159
<v Speaker 2>And that's the community essentially that puts together the Bible.

1315
01:19:54.720 --> 01:19:58.359
<v Speaker 2>So sounds like your buddy quantum commenter is actually on

1316
01:19:58.479 --> 01:20:00.720
<v Speaker 2>the right track. California p up or two dollars and

1317
01:20:00.760 --> 01:20:02.680
<v Speaker 2>twenty two cents. Here are some shekels for your time.

1318
01:20:03.399 --> 01:20:08.319
<v Speaker 2>Thank you appreciate that. Clarity conversation five dollars. Do you

1319
01:20:08.399 --> 01:20:10.920
<v Speaker 2>know about this dude called truth unedited on YouTube?

1320
01:20:11.000 --> 01:20:11.319
<v Speaker 1>I do not.

1321
01:20:11.880 --> 01:20:14.560
<v Speaker 2>He has seven hundred fifty thousand subs and he's Hebrew roots.

1322
01:20:14.640 --> 01:20:23.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh well, here is my issue. Here's my challenge to you,

1323
01:20:25.199 --> 01:20:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Truth Unedited. I will challenge you to debate. He put

1324
01:20:29.039 --> 01:20:31.039
<v Speaker 2>out a video against all the church fathers. You should

1325
01:20:31.079 --> 01:20:33.800
<v Speaker 2>call out this dude for a debate or something like that.

1326
01:20:34.319 --> 01:20:36.319
<v Speaker 2>I used to listen to him before I became Orthodox

1327
01:20:36.520 --> 01:20:39.920
<v Speaker 2>many years Jay. Hey, thank you appreciate that. Yeah, Truth unedited,

1328
01:20:39.960 --> 01:20:44.800
<v Speaker 2>I challenge you to defend your stupid heresy MKG ten dollars. Jay,

1329
01:20:44.800 --> 01:20:46.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm currently doing We're gonna go back to Q and

1330
01:20:46.760 --> 01:20:51.239
<v Speaker 2>are in a second or a debate. I'm currently doing

1331
01:20:51.359 --> 01:20:54.199
<v Speaker 2>cover to cover reading of the Bible. I read the

1332
01:20:54.239 --> 01:20:56.560
<v Speaker 2>story Jacob and Esaw. What is your understanding of God

1333
01:20:56.680 --> 01:21:03.600
<v Speaker 2>rewarding Jacob and his mother get Isaac blessing. I read

1334
01:21:04.039 --> 01:21:11.920
<v Speaker 2>a few interpretations. What do you think about this? Well,

1335
01:21:11.960 --> 01:21:15.880
<v Speaker 2>I do think Jacob represents Israel, so he and he's

1336
01:21:16.039 --> 01:21:20.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, he gets the name and he's gets the blessing.

1337
01:21:20.800 --> 01:21:27.279
<v Speaker 2>Because I think there's something that, you know, prompted God

1338
01:21:27.399 --> 01:21:30.279
<v Speaker 2>to choose the Jews to be the people from whom

1339
01:21:31.239 --> 01:21:36.119
<v Speaker 2>the Messianic line would come. So the purpose of the

1340
01:21:36.239 --> 01:21:39.000
<v Speaker 2>nation of Israel is to produce the Messiah. That's their purpose.

1341
01:21:39.439 --> 01:21:42.159
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, there's ancillary purposes in Deuteronomy that they would

1342
01:21:42.199 --> 01:21:44.600
<v Speaker 2>teach the nations and be a guide in the law

1343
01:21:44.640 --> 01:21:47.399
<v Speaker 2>and all that, but they didn't. They really failed at

1344
01:21:47.439 --> 01:21:50.640
<v Speaker 2>that mission. But they did succeed in their ultimate mission,

1345
01:21:50.680 --> 01:21:54.920
<v Speaker 2>which was to produce the Messiah. So they are an image.

1346
01:21:55.039 --> 01:21:58.279
<v Speaker 2>Jacob is a kind of an image of Israel and

1347
01:21:58.600 --> 01:22:03.079
<v Speaker 2>the people of the Old Covenant, and both for the

1348
01:22:03.479 --> 01:22:07.600
<v Speaker 2>positives and for his flaws. So I think that's the

1349
01:22:07.960 --> 01:22:13.159
<v Speaker 2>that's my initial thoughts on Jacob. Obviously you can go

1350
01:22:13.239 --> 01:22:15.319
<v Speaker 2>a lot deeper. There's a lot of typology, there's a

1351
01:22:15.359 --> 01:22:18.760
<v Speaker 2>lot of symbolism in all of those Genesis stories. But

1352
01:22:18.880 --> 01:22:20.479
<v Speaker 2>off the top of my head, I would say that

1353
01:22:21.520 --> 01:22:27.560
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of the first point. Anonymous ten dollars Jay,

1354
01:22:27.680 --> 01:22:29.640
<v Speaker 2>Sorry my phone cut out. I was questioning you to.

1355
01:22:30.319 --> 01:22:33.479
<v Speaker 2>My question was, how would you sum up the epistemic

1356
01:22:33.600 --> 01:22:38.239
<v Speaker 2>issues with the Protestant position. Well, remember that the epistemic

1357
01:22:38.359 --> 01:22:44.439
<v Speaker 2>issues relate to ultimately what we call normative authority. So

1358
01:22:44.640 --> 01:22:48.239
<v Speaker 2>we're not making the challenge that a Protestant can't know anything,

1359
01:22:48.359 --> 01:22:51.880
<v Speaker 2>or that a Protestant can't tell you what's true. That's

1360
01:22:51.960 --> 01:22:54.239
<v Speaker 2>a bad argument a lot of times. Roman Catholics, for example,

1361
01:22:54.279 --> 01:22:56.079
<v Speaker 2>when they when they debate with a Protestant, they'll say

1362
01:22:56.119 --> 01:22:58.720
<v Speaker 2>something like, you don't have the pope, so you don't

1363
01:22:58.760 --> 01:23:01.159
<v Speaker 2>know what doctrines are true. This is a really low tier,

1364
01:23:01.239 --> 01:23:03.279
<v Speaker 2>dumb argument because it just moves the problem back a

1365
01:23:03.359 --> 01:23:07.079
<v Speaker 2>step that assumes that you're interpreting the documents of the

1366
01:23:07.119 --> 01:23:09.960
<v Speaker 2>papacy correctly, right, So owther was a Roman Catholic will

1367
01:23:09.960 --> 01:23:12.960
<v Speaker 2>say something like, well, you know you're a Protestant reading

1368
01:23:13.000 --> 01:23:15.520
<v Speaker 2>the Bible. That's your private interpretation. How do you know

1369
01:23:15.600 --> 01:23:19.000
<v Speaker 2>that interpretation is correct? That's why we have the pope. Well, again,

1370
01:23:19.079 --> 01:23:21.239
<v Speaker 2>that's moving the problem back a step, because now every

1371
01:23:21.279 --> 01:23:24.199
<v Speaker 2>individual Catholic just has more books and stacks of stuff

1372
01:23:24.279 --> 01:23:26.520
<v Speaker 2>to read, much of which is way more boring than

1373
01:23:26.560 --> 01:23:28.920
<v Speaker 2>the Bible too, I might add, to try to figure

1374
01:23:28.960 --> 01:23:32.039
<v Speaker 2>out what the proper interpretation of the papal documents is.

1375
01:23:32.439 --> 01:23:38.199
<v Speaker 2>So nine percent of the Roman Catholic pop car salesman

1376
01:23:38.239 --> 01:23:42.079
<v Speaker 2>apologist ignore this and just move the problem back a step.

1377
01:23:42.159 --> 01:23:45.279
<v Speaker 2>And smarter Protestants know this and figure it out. And

1378
01:23:45.319 --> 01:23:50.720
<v Speaker 2>they usually make this point right like A, I don't

1379
01:23:50.760 --> 01:23:52.840
<v Speaker 2>know who is a smarter Protestant. I don't even I

1380
01:23:52.960 --> 01:23:54.359
<v Speaker 2>don't even know if I can even say that there

1381
01:23:54.399 --> 01:23:58.840
<v Speaker 2>are smarter Protestants anymore. Maybe there's not. I'm being silly,

1382
01:23:58.920 --> 01:24:02.279
<v Speaker 2>but if there were a smarter Protestant, they would say

1383
01:24:02.359 --> 01:24:05.479
<v Speaker 2>something like maybe James White even said this at one point,

1384
01:24:05.520 --> 01:24:08.640
<v Speaker 2>who I don't have any respect for or care for

1385
01:24:08.760 --> 01:24:10.640
<v Speaker 2>at all, but I think he did make this point

1386
01:24:10.720 --> 01:24:12.359
<v Speaker 2>one time, like, well, don't you have to interpret the

1387
01:24:12.399 --> 01:24:17.119
<v Speaker 2>Protestant documents, I mean the papal documents. So I just

1388
01:24:17.399 --> 01:24:19.880
<v Speaker 2>this is just a really bad objection if you know epistemology.

1389
01:24:20.000 --> 01:24:24.399
<v Speaker 2>So I think a better objection to the Protestant position

1390
01:24:24.920 --> 01:24:29.199
<v Speaker 2>is normative authority, which is the point that, well, did

1391
01:24:29.319 --> 01:24:33.039
<v Speaker 2>Jesus actually leave any body of people that have authority

1392
01:24:33.560 --> 01:24:38.359
<v Speaker 2>to bind anyone's interpretation? And that's the better way to

1393
01:24:38.399 --> 01:24:41.399
<v Speaker 2>frame it against the Protestant because every Protestant believes that

1394
01:24:42.199 --> 01:24:45.880
<v Speaker 2>they have right of private judgment. Nobody can bind their conscience.

1395
01:24:46.039 --> 01:24:50.000
<v Speaker 2>That's a classical Reformation teaching freedom of conscience, freedom of worship.

1396
01:24:50.039 --> 01:24:52.640
<v Speaker 2>You don't nobody can tell me my reading of the

1397
01:24:52.680 --> 01:24:58.359
<v Speaker 2>Bible's wrong. Well, but did Jesus provide a means to

1398
01:24:59.159 --> 01:25:04.560
<v Speaker 2>solve dispute when there were disagreements? It's kind of like, well,

1399
01:25:04.640 --> 01:25:07.359
<v Speaker 2>there's the Constitution, but you need a body of people

1400
01:25:07.399 --> 01:25:10.880
<v Speaker 2>to interpret it, hence the Supreme Court. So is there

1401
01:25:11.039 --> 01:25:15.640
<v Speaker 2>a group of leaders, namely the episcopacy, that can interpret

1402
01:25:15.720 --> 01:25:19.359
<v Speaker 2>these documents with authority? So it's not just can they

1403
01:25:19.560 --> 01:25:21.720
<v Speaker 2>they're the only people who can interpret it. Everybody who

1404
01:25:21.720 --> 01:25:23.520
<v Speaker 2>reads the Bible will have to interpret you. Now, you're

1405
01:25:23.560 --> 01:25:26.680
<v Speaker 2>just going to interpret it. But when the Church has

1406
01:25:26.880 --> 01:25:31.159
<v Speaker 2>disputes and disagreements in history, when they met together in

1407
01:25:31.239 --> 01:25:33.760
<v Speaker 2>councils like Nicia, well clearly they thought they had the

1408
01:25:33.840 --> 01:25:37.399
<v Speaker 2>authority to bind people's interpretation, because if you don't believe

1409
01:25:37.439 --> 01:25:41.039
<v Speaker 2>in the Nicene interpretation, it's you're excommunicated, you're an arian,

1410
01:25:41.199 --> 01:25:45.560
<v Speaker 2>you're outside the church. But in the realm of Protestantism,

1411
01:25:45.640 --> 01:25:49.479
<v Speaker 2>it's premised on in the Classical Reformation doctrine, the right

1412
01:25:49.560 --> 01:25:52.840
<v Speaker 2>of private interpretation. Nobody has the authority to bind anyone

1413
01:25:52.920 --> 01:25:58.199
<v Speaker 2>to that interpretation. So hence the chaos. That's the better

1414
01:25:58.239 --> 01:26:02.239
<v Speaker 2>way I think to frame the debate with a Protestant

1415
01:26:02.880 --> 01:26:04.840
<v Speaker 2>Classical do you want to try again? Hey, Jamie, could

1416
01:26:04.840 --> 01:26:13.920
<v Speaker 2>you make me a coffee? Jamie? Jamie. She came in

1417
01:26:13.960 --> 01:26:16.319
<v Speaker 2>here and I'm mister, what's up?

1418
01:26:16.359 --> 01:26:16.520
<v Speaker 24>Man?

1419
01:26:17.800 --> 01:26:19.560
<v Speaker 1>Hey, what's going on? Jack? Can you hear me? Yeah?

1420
01:26:21.439 --> 01:26:26.159
<v Speaker 24>Yeah, So it seems that the Latins on Axe have

1421
01:26:26.279 --> 01:26:30.159
<v Speaker 24>been absolutely fuming over their little wax figure scandal.

1422
01:26:31.840 --> 01:26:32.920
<v Speaker 2>I haven't even paid attention.

1423
01:26:34.399 --> 01:26:37.039
<v Speaker 24>Oh yeah, I had one guy just randomly tell me

1424
01:26:37.159 --> 01:26:40.159
<v Speaker 24>that you're actually going to convert back to Catholicism.

1425
01:26:39.600 --> 01:26:40.359
<v Speaker 1>For the third time.

1426
01:26:41.439 --> 01:26:44.399
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, sure, well let's just add hominem. So no,

1427
01:26:44.520 --> 01:26:47.000
<v Speaker 2>I'll guarantee I'll never be a Roman Catholic again. Why

1428
01:26:47.039 --> 01:26:49.239
<v Speaker 2>would I mean, why would he even say I'd be

1429
01:26:49.319 --> 01:26:54.239
<v Speaker 2>Roman Catholic again? If like that's the thing that I'm

1430
01:26:54.279 --> 01:26:57.920
<v Speaker 2>making fun of, Like I don't know what if I

1431
01:26:58.000 --> 01:26:59.479
<v Speaker 2>was ever converted. I don't know what I would ever

1432
01:26:59.520 --> 01:27:02.439
<v Speaker 2>convert to. But I mean it wouldn't it wouldn't be

1433
01:27:02.520 --> 01:27:06.279
<v Speaker 2>to this entity that's like openly bringing in people to

1434
01:27:06.359 --> 01:27:10.720
<v Speaker 2>destroy the country. And I'm talking about the Inga, the

1435
01:27:10.800 --> 01:27:13.199
<v Speaker 2>Catholic NGOs that are open borders.

1436
01:27:12.880 --> 01:27:18.279
<v Speaker 24>Right, Yeah, That's actually what I was gonna ask you about, is.

1437
01:27:18.359 --> 01:27:19.319
<v Speaker 1>That it seems that.

1438
01:27:21.159 --> 01:27:24.600
<v Speaker 25>The calls for master legal immigration as well as all

1439
01:27:24.640 --> 01:27:28.720
<v Speaker 25>the Catholic NGOs are pushing for this, but at the

1440
01:27:28.800 --> 01:27:32.800
<v Speaker 25>same time they're doing things like calling out the persecution

1441
01:27:33.079 --> 01:27:35.640
<v Speaker 25>of the Canonical Church in Ukraine.

1442
01:27:37.720 --> 01:27:42.560
<v Speaker 2>Well, the there's nothing that requires evil people to be consistent.

1443
01:27:43.199 --> 01:27:46.520
<v Speaker 2>So the fact that you know, Francis throws a bone

1444
01:27:46.640 --> 01:27:49.479
<v Speaker 2>to trads here and there, which is just I mean,

1445
01:27:49.520 --> 01:27:53.359
<v Speaker 2>the Vatican's always done this. Now, what he's talking about

1446
01:27:53.439 --> 01:27:56.119
<v Speaker 2>for those that are not on X was some profile

1447
01:27:57.079 --> 01:27:59.439
<v Speaker 2>this annoying profile that I ended up trying to debate with.

1448
01:28:00.039 --> 01:28:02.199
<v Speaker 2>He never made an argument, He just like restated the

1449
01:28:02.279 --> 01:28:06.800
<v Speaker 2>Roman Catholic position. So people, you can look this up.

1450
01:28:06.880 --> 01:28:09.479
<v Speaker 2>This is not me, like I'm not making You're gonna

1451
01:28:09.479 --> 01:28:11.439
<v Speaker 2>see how the Roman Catholics make this point. Right, So

1452
01:28:11.520 --> 01:28:13.840
<v Speaker 2>he tried to say, oh, look look at the incorruptible

1453
01:28:14.159 --> 01:28:17.319
<v Speaker 2>Roman Catholic saints. So you have this gamer kid who

1454
01:28:17.800 --> 01:28:21.560
<v Speaker 2>was just canonized then supposedly Vincent de Paul, John Bosco,

1455
01:28:21.720 --> 01:28:24.479
<v Speaker 2>and Padre Pio. Right, so oh, look here the proof

1456
01:28:24.520 --> 01:28:28.960
<v Speaker 2>of Roman Catholicism as a miraculous institution, because look, these

1457
01:28:29.000 --> 01:28:33.800
<v Speaker 2>people haven't decayed, they haven't decomposed. Well did you know

1458
01:28:34.319 --> 01:28:40.680
<v Speaker 2>that as this Roman Catholic underneath here admits Vincent de

1459
01:28:40.760 --> 01:28:45.560
<v Speaker 2>Paul's face is encased in a wax mask. Carlo Acutus

1460
01:28:45.680 --> 01:28:50.199
<v Speaker 2>is also covered in wax, as is Saint Bosco, John Bosco,

1461
01:28:50.399 --> 01:28:54.119
<v Speaker 2>Padre Pio is covered in a silicone mask. I believe

1462
01:28:54.159 --> 01:28:56.760
<v Speaker 2>these people are holy, but we have to recognize that

1463
01:28:56.880 --> 01:29:01.279
<v Speaker 2>it is admitted that they're all preserved in wax encasements

1464
01:29:01.359 --> 01:29:04.680
<v Speaker 2>and even silicon. So I'm sorry, but that's not an

1465
01:29:04.720 --> 01:29:09.520
<v Speaker 2>incorruptible and that's why I was making the jokes that, oh,

1466
01:29:09.600 --> 01:29:12.359
<v Speaker 2>I guess that makes Taylor Swift now, you know, the

1467
01:29:13.159 --> 01:29:16.039
<v Speaker 2>next saint to be canonized, because look there, she's incorruptible,

1468
01:29:16.880 --> 01:29:21.680
<v Speaker 2>right or people were putting pictures of linen up. Linen's

1469
01:29:21.760 --> 01:29:25.039
<v Speaker 2>encased in wax. I mean, it's just like such a

1470
01:29:25.199 --> 01:29:29.640
<v Speaker 2>low tier bizarre thing. If Roman Catholic's realize that it's

1471
01:29:29.760 --> 01:29:32.680
<v Speaker 2>admitted that they're encased in silicon and wax, So why

1472
01:29:32.680 --> 01:29:35.680
<v Speaker 2>would I accept that as a miracle that this is

1473
01:29:36.199 --> 01:29:45.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, uh, it's not incorruptibility. This is ridiculous, are

1474
01:29:45.600 --> 01:29:45.880
<v Speaker 2>you there?

1475
01:29:47.840 --> 01:29:52.239
<v Speaker 24>Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's not even like necessarily what

1476
01:29:52.359 --> 01:29:55.000
<v Speaker 24>you call it requirement for someone to be a saying.

1477
01:29:55.039 --> 01:29:55.840
<v Speaker 1>But they're really.

1478
01:29:55.760 --> 01:29:58.840
<v Speaker 24>Levying on it that that look how cool and important

1479
01:29:58.840 --> 01:30:01.520
<v Speaker 24>it is and straight up looks like it's from a

1480
01:30:01.600 --> 01:30:02.319
<v Speaker 24>wax museum.

1481
01:30:02.880 --> 01:30:05.399
<v Speaker 2>No, but you understand that the Roman Callolicy church admits

1482
01:30:05.520 --> 01:30:09.399
<v Speaker 2>they in case they're incorruptibles in wax and silicon. It's

1483
01:30:09.439 --> 01:30:12.560
<v Speaker 2>not a conspiracy theory, it's not an atheist objection. They

1484
01:30:12.600 --> 01:30:15.880
<v Speaker 2>admit they do this. Just look it up. The other

1485
01:30:16.039 --> 01:30:18.760
<v Speaker 2>Roman Catholics are admitting they do this, and this guy

1486
01:30:19.159 --> 01:30:22.520
<v Speaker 2>is saying I almost left Catholicism when I found out

1487
01:30:22.680 --> 01:30:27.359
<v Speaker 2>that the that these are wax encased people, they're not

1488
01:30:27.840 --> 01:30:32.439
<v Speaker 2>necessarily incorruptible. And the guys, the guy who posted it said, well,

1489
01:30:32.840 --> 01:30:39.960
<v Speaker 2>but they're incorruptible underneath the wax. That's how do we know.

1490
01:30:40.159 --> 01:30:43.199
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's okay, sure, that's your assertion, But I mean,

1491
01:30:43.279 --> 01:30:47.560
<v Speaker 2>aren't there ancient Egyptian they find like embalmed mummies that

1492
01:30:47.760 --> 01:30:52.640
<v Speaker 2>looked very well preserved for centuries of you know, millennia

1493
01:30:52.840 --> 01:30:55.479
<v Speaker 2>of being in a sarcophagus. I mean, does that mean

1494
01:30:55.560 --> 01:30:58.760
<v Speaker 2>that they're incorruptible mummy saying we've got to worship Pharaoh now,

1495
01:30:59.119 --> 01:31:02.880
<v Speaker 2>thank you. It's just a stupid argument.

1496
01:31:06.119 --> 01:31:09.239
<v Speaker 24>The Cavean that they find like frozen inside of rivers.

1497
01:31:09.920 --> 01:31:13.279
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, there you go. So Saint Saint Caveman, saint

1498
01:31:13.680 --> 01:31:18.720
<v Speaker 2>in Sino Man. Right, we got a Brendan Fraser is

1499
01:31:19.199 --> 01:31:22.880
<v Speaker 2>a saint now because he was in Sino Man. Saint

1500
01:31:22.920 --> 01:31:25.840
<v Speaker 2>Brendan Fraser Caveman, pray for us. Yeah, great, points up.

1501
01:31:25.920 --> 01:31:30.359
<v Speaker 2>I actually forgot about all of this Twitter nonsense, and

1502
01:31:30.520 --> 01:31:34.600
<v Speaker 2>I guess it's because this guy's we got half a

1503
01:31:34.640 --> 01:31:39.359
<v Speaker 2>million views on this, only I thought it had more comments,

1504
01:31:39.399 --> 01:31:40.840
<v Speaker 2>but it was one hundred and sixty two, which is

1505
01:31:40.880 --> 01:31:45.279
<v Speaker 2>a pretty good amount of comments. But I mean, I look,

1506
01:31:47.600 --> 01:31:52.920
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of like the apparition stuff, right, So does

1507
01:31:52.960 --> 01:31:55.600
<v Speaker 2>an apparition prove wrong Catholicism? I mean, if it does,

1508
01:31:56.279 --> 01:32:01.039
<v Speaker 2>then does it prove Coptic Christianity? And they never they

1509
01:32:01.159 --> 01:32:03.119
<v Speaker 2>never give you an answer to that. They just say, well,

1510
01:32:05.199 --> 01:32:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Mary is trying to make them Catholic? Where did when

1511
01:32:10.039 --> 01:32:12.279
<v Speaker 2>did Mary try to make them Catholic in his IU

1512
01:32:12.359 --> 01:32:15.560
<v Speaker 2>and apparitions? None of the Coptics became Catholic from that.

1513
01:32:17.880 --> 01:32:21.840
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, great point. I forgot about all the St.

1514
01:32:22.000 --> 01:32:28.520
<v Speaker 2>Madam Tussaud's a Saint factory over there at Rome. Uh dude,

1515
01:32:28.560 --> 01:32:31.880
<v Speaker 2>I went to Ripley's, believe it or not. I didn't

1516
01:32:31.880 --> 01:32:33.960
<v Speaker 2>even realize in I was in the presence of relics.

1517
01:32:34.760 --> 01:32:37.199
<v Speaker 2>Uh y'all ever been to the thing out in the desert?

1518
01:32:37.239 --> 01:32:40.479
<v Speaker 2>And if you're when you're driving to New Mexico and Arizona.

1519
01:32:41.199 --> 01:32:43.199
<v Speaker 2>When you're driving through New Mexico and Arizona, you start

1520
01:32:43.199 --> 01:32:49.680
<v Speaker 2>seeing all these billboards about the thang, right, and then

1521
01:32:49.760 --> 01:32:54.960
<v Speaker 2>you pay a dollar to go see the thing. While

1522
01:32:54.960 --> 01:32:56.760
<v Speaker 2>you're driving out to California. Right this, this is it

1523
01:32:56.920 --> 01:33:01.680
<v Speaker 2>right here. See this, and then when you you see

1524
01:33:01.720 --> 01:33:06.199
<v Speaker 2>that glass encasement right there next to that uh gorilla

1525
01:33:06.279 --> 01:33:08.239
<v Speaker 2>head or whatever the hell that is, that's right here.

1526
01:33:09.720 --> 01:33:12.239
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna ruin it for all, y'all because when you

1527
01:33:12.319 --> 01:33:14.760
<v Speaker 2>pay a dollar to walk through the museum, do you

1528
01:33:14.840 --> 01:33:17.760
<v Speaker 2>know what the thing is? It's just a mummified woman

1529
01:33:17.880 --> 01:33:21.560
<v Speaker 2>and a I guess her baby, that's what the thing is. Well,

1530
01:33:21.760 --> 01:33:24.920
<v Speaker 2>I didn't even realize the thing was a saint, saint thing.

1531
01:33:25.119 --> 01:33:29.720
<v Speaker 2>What's that saint thing? Pray for us, Saint Vladimirlinin, Pray

1532
01:33:29.800 --> 01:33:32.439
<v Speaker 2>for us, because all you gotta do is be encased

1533
01:33:32.479 --> 01:33:35.039
<v Speaker 2>in wax and you're in incorruptible, and that proves your religion.

1534
01:33:35.079 --> 01:33:41.079
<v Speaker 2>And you see how stupid this is, y'all gonna ask

1535
01:33:41.159 --> 01:33:46.199
<v Speaker 2>for the intercession a saint thing? And the Roman galaxy

1536
01:33:46.199 --> 01:33:48.039
<v Speaker 2>are just mad because they know that these are really

1537
01:33:48.119 --> 01:33:50.439
<v Speaker 2>dumb arguments, and the only people who would fall for

1538
01:33:50.560 --> 01:33:53.039
<v Speaker 2>this are the most gullible goobers out there, the people

1539
01:33:53.039 --> 01:33:54.920
<v Speaker 2>who have It's like the people who believe in the thing,

1540
01:33:55.199 --> 01:33:58.119
<v Speaker 2>right like, oh, that's that's a real alien over there.

1541
01:33:58.159 --> 01:34:00.680
<v Speaker 2>It's not an alien it's just a mummified woman and

1542
01:34:00.760 --> 01:34:04.720
<v Speaker 2>her body and it's I guess again, it's like and

1543
01:34:04.840 --> 01:34:08.319
<v Speaker 2>what determines incorruptible? If you could put wax on it

1544
01:34:08.680 --> 01:34:11.199
<v Speaker 2>and it's incorruptible, then I mean, have y'all not seen

1545
01:34:11.880 --> 01:34:18.760
<v Speaker 2>v I Lenins in case in wax? And then when

1546
01:34:18.760 --> 01:34:22.039
<v Speaker 2>I brought that up, they were like, it doesn't count

1547
01:34:22.119 --> 01:34:26.159
<v Speaker 2>because he was evil. What do you mean it doesn't count?

1548
01:34:26.399 --> 01:34:32.960
<v Speaker 2>Like it's the exact same thing that you're arguing, right,

1549
01:34:33.039 --> 01:34:35.159
<v Speaker 2>So here's Lenin. Look how preserved he is and they

1550
01:34:35.199 --> 01:34:41.119
<v Speaker 2>admit he's covered in wax. Good grief, dude, slow boy,

1551
01:34:41.159 --> 01:34:45.039
<v Speaker 2>Brandon five dollars Jay. When I'm debating atheists, I can't

1552
01:34:45.079 --> 01:34:47.960
<v Speaker 2>get them to concede to God with tag, Well, then

1553
01:34:48.039 --> 01:34:50.439
<v Speaker 2>move on. I don't know how to use tag to

1554
01:34:50.520 --> 01:34:53.319
<v Speaker 2>show that the Trinity is true. I just did it.

1555
01:34:53.680 --> 01:34:58.880
<v Speaker 2>Somebody just actually found where I talked about it in

1556
01:34:58.960 --> 01:35:00.880
<v Speaker 2>an old video because they're everybody asks this, I'm not

1557
01:35:00.920 --> 01:35:02.720
<v Speaker 2>mad at you, this like this comes up like every day,

1558
01:35:03.199 --> 01:35:14.640
<v Speaker 2>So let me see. Uh, I think I know which

1559
01:35:14.720 --> 01:35:17.760
<v Speaker 2>video was they put this? They timestamped where I talked

1560
01:35:17.760 --> 01:35:24.479
<v Speaker 2>about this one Drake Monotheis, where did I talk about Trinity.

1561
01:35:24.560 --> 01:35:31.119
<v Speaker 2>Let me find this guy's comment, where's the what the heck? Okay,

1562
01:35:31.319 --> 01:35:37.560
<v Speaker 2>let's see how does the tag? How does tag prove trinity?

1563
01:35:37.880 --> 01:35:41.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to pin this comment since everyone asked where

1564
01:35:41.760 --> 01:35:44.760
<v Speaker 2>did you cover this? So top ten bad arguments for

1565
01:35:44.800 --> 01:35:48.479
<v Speaker 2>the transcend argument for God is the video and the

1566
01:35:48.680 --> 01:35:50.600
<v Speaker 2>argument is at one nineteen.

1567
01:35:50.319 --> 01:36:02.760
<v Speaker 23>Forty three right there on you dude, there you go,

1568
01:36:03.000 --> 01:36:09.399
<v Speaker 23>I penned the dog Is this your first time on

1569
01:36:09.520 --> 01:36:17.439
<v Speaker 23>the inner webs? I need a ginger Mercury? What's up, dude, Mercury?

1570
01:36:18.039 --> 01:36:19.199
<v Speaker 23>You over there in retro grady?

1571
01:36:19.239 --> 01:36:20.640
<v Speaker 2>Right now? You're retro grade?

1572
01:36:23.520 --> 01:36:26.279
<v Speaker 1>Sorry? Can you hear me? Hey man?

1573
01:36:26.479 --> 01:36:28.399
<v Speaker 18>My friends start introduced me to some of.

1574
01:36:28.399 --> 01:36:33.119
<v Speaker 1>Your videos, and I'm intrigued. Uh. One of the areas

1575
01:36:33.119 --> 01:36:36.239
<v Speaker 1>of literature. I in very broad knowledge of literature, and.

1576
01:36:36.239 --> 01:36:40.399
<v Speaker 21>It seems like, you know, is the enlightenments through Anglophone

1577
01:36:40.399 --> 01:36:46.399
<v Speaker 21>analytic philosophy to American pragmatism. You say two dogmas in particular,

1578
01:36:46.600 --> 01:36:47.920
<v Speaker 21>So I guess what I just wanted.

1579
01:36:47.760 --> 01:36:48.279
<v Speaker 1>To do here.

1580
01:36:49.680 --> 01:36:55.039
<v Speaker 21>Is making American pragmicists a case for sola scripture. I

1581
01:36:55.159 --> 01:36:58.279
<v Speaker 21>just see where you pull holes in it, right, because

1582
01:36:58.279 --> 01:37:00.880
<v Speaker 21>I think there's a shared Germany equal background there.

1583
01:37:02.159 --> 01:37:05.159
<v Speaker 2>How would American pragmatism have anything to do with Sola scripture.

1584
01:37:05.920 --> 01:37:12.319
<v Speaker 21>So there's a turn in Western secular philosophy from epistemology

1585
01:37:12.359 --> 01:37:17.119
<v Speaker 21>to linguistics. I think there's a linguistic turn in Western philosophy,

1586
01:37:17.199 --> 01:37:22.319
<v Speaker 21>which line really seems to epitomize, right, I think we

1587
01:37:22.359 --> 01:37:23.960
<v Speaker 21>can just stop and see if you agreed.

1588
01:37:23.680 --> 01:37:29.520
<v Speaker 2>Every Yeah, I mean the two dogmas eventually becomes a

1589
01:37:29.600 --> 01:37:34.479
<v Speaker 2>debate about the circularity of lexicographers and dictionaries and definitions

1590
01:37:34.520 --> 01:37:37.359
<v Speaker 2>and self evidence, and so he argues it's a big circle.

1591
01:37:37.439 --> 01:37:39.079
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, that's linguistic philosophy.

1592
01:37:39.760 --> 01:37:42.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, clearly influenced by vicken Stein. I think he's like

1593
01:37:43.039 --> 01:37:44.760
<v Speaker 1>a ghost in the background, and.

1594
01:37:44.840 --> 01:37:47.560
<v Speaker 21>Ultimately culminating in Richard Gordy's critique of all of Western

1595
01:37:47.600 --> 01:37:51.880
<v Speaker 21>philosophy as an attempt to hypostatize reason as a mirror

1596
01:37:51.920 --> 01:37:54.640
<v Speaker 21>of nature, as he titles his MAGNI about this in

1597
01:37:54.720 --> 01:37:55.439
<v Speaker 21>my opinion.

1598
01:37:55.239 --> 01:37:58.239
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but just let me stop you right there, because

1599
01:37:59.079 --> 01:38:01.399
<v Speaker 2>I would just simply say that solar scripture has nothing

1600
01:38:01.439 --> 01:38:03.840
<v Speaker 2>to do with any of that. It's a historical question

1601
01:38:04.079 --> 01:38:06.840
<v Speaker 2>of the formation. Well, it's two things. It's a historical

1602
01:38:06.920 --> 01:38:09.560
<v Speaker 2>issue hold on of the formation of the canon. And

1603
01:38:09.640 --> 01:38:12.479
<v Speaker 2>then secondly it's an issue of whether or not the

1604
01:38:12.560 --> 01:38:16.159
<v Speaker 2>principle of socapture itself is true. So those are two things.

1605
01:38:16.199 --> 01:38:18.880
<v Speaker 2>So what does that have to do with modern pragmatic

1606
01:38:19.000 --> 01:38:19.760
<v Speaker 2>linguistic turns.

1607
01:38:20.039 --> 01:38:22.399
<v Speaker 21>If you believe in solely the word John one one,

1608
01:38:24.279 --> 01:38:26.479
<v Speaker 21>then a turn from epistemology to linguistics.

1609
01:38:28.239 --> 01:38:30.600
<v Speaker 2>What do you think the word is? And what is

1610
01:38:30.640 --> 01:38:31.479
<v Speaker 2>the word there that?

1611
01:38:31.920 --> 01:38:33.039
<v Speaker 1>What is language itself?

1612
01:38:33.159 --> 01:38:35.319
<v Speaker 2>No, that's not what it is. The word in John

1613
01:38:35.399 --> 01:38:37.880
<v Speaker 2>one is the second person of the Godhead. It's not language.

1614
01:38:39.199 --> 01:38:41.520
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's the word is literally the word.

1615
01:38:41.680 --> 01:38:44.439
<v Speaker 2>No, it's the second person of the Godhead, who's identified

1616
01:38:44.479 --> 01:38:48.399
<v Speaker 2>in John one as Jesus, the second Hypostas. It's not language. No,

1617
01:38:48.640 --> 01:38:51.279
<v Speaker 2>you're wrong. So you have an assumption about what John

1618
01:38:51.319 --> 01:38:54.119
<v Speaker 2>one is about. It's not language. It's the person of

1619
01:38:54.239 --> 01:38:54.600
<v Speaker 2>the word.

1620
01:38:55.159 --> 01:38:56.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't have an assumption on a reason.

1621
01:38:56.600 --> 01:38:59.159
<v Speaker 2>You just literally told me that it's language, and you

1622
01:38:59.239 --> 01:39:01.520
<v Speaker 2>said you don't have an assumption. It is not language.

1623
01:39:01.560 --> 01:39:03.880
<v Speaker 2>It is the second person of the Godhead. He is

1624
01:39:04.000 --> 01:39:04.680
<v Speaker 2>not language.

1625
01:39:05.600 --> 01:39:07.600
<v Speaker 1>We're focusing on the scripture right now, are we not

1626
01:39:08.079 --> 01:39:08.560
<v Speaker 1>on the word?

1627
01:39:08.960 --> 01:39:13.119
<v Speaker 2>What does John want identify as the logos? Well, who

1628
01:39:13.159 --> 01:39:14.479
<v Speaker 2>does it identify as the logos?

1629
01:39:16.000 --> 01:39:18.319
<v Speaker 1>The word was God, the word was with God in

1630
01:39:18.319 --> 01:39:21.239
<v Speaker 1>the word was God. Who is it? Is it a he?

1631
01:39:21.479 --> 01:39:25.000
<v Speaker 2>Or an is? Language? Is an it? God is a he?

1632
01:39:26.359 --> 01:39:27.800
<v Speaker 1>As far as I'm concerned.

1633
01:39:28.079 --> 01:39:30.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't care what you're concerning you. Which one is it?

1634
01:39:30.880 --> 01:39:32.319
<v Speaker 2>Is it the second person of the Godhead? Who is

1635
01:39:32.319 --> 01:39:40.039
<v Speaker 2>a he? Or isn't an it? All right? Goodbye? Listen

1636
01:39:40.119 --> 01:39:42.680
<v Speaker 2>to my listen to my wife. Huh, you're not letting

1637
01:39:42.680 --> 01:39:47.239
<v Speaker 2>me finish because you're saying dumb stuff. Obviously, it's not language,

1638
01:39:47.319 --> 01:39:55.039
<v Speaker 2>that's an it. It's a he, a named entity. Goodbye.

1639
01:39:57.600 --> 01:40:01.920
<v Speaker 2>That's why there's no linguistic pro pragmatic Americanist argument for

1640
01:40:02.000 --> 01:40:06.840
<v Speaker 2>soul scripture, because you literally thought that the logos of

1641
01:40:07.039 --> 01:40:13.239
<v Speaker 2>John one is language and not a divine hypostasis. Isaiah,

1642
01:40:17.439 --> 01:40:25.640
<v Speaker 2>Huh that soila. As far as I'm concerned, Well, let

1643
01:40:25.720 --> 01:40:30.560
<v Speaker 2>me talk. What's up? How you doing?

1644
01:40:31.279 --> 01:40:31.319
<v Speaker 1>So?

1645
01:40:31.399 --> 01:40:35.720
<v Speaker 15>I got a question about about tag. You know, maybe

1646
01:40:35.760 --> 01:40:36.720
<v Speaker 15>we can have a discussion on it.

1647
01:40:36.800 --> 01:40:40.840
<v Speaker 1>So, okay, can you so?

1648
01:40:41.000 --> 01:40:43.199
<v Speaker 15>I know, I I agree that the argument is an

1649
01:40:43.319 --> 01:40:47.600
<v Speaker 15>argument between paradigms, and but I'm trying to learn more

1650
01:40:47.760 --> 01:40:49.199
<v Speaker 15>about how can.

1651
01:40:49.119 --> 01:40:52.039
<v Speaker 1>We support the paradigm of of God?

1652
01:40:52.279 --> 01:40:52.399
<v Speaker 2>Right?

1653
01:40:52.520 --> 01:40:54.000
<v Speaker 15>So, like I get the question a lot when I

1654
01:40:54.039 --> 01:40:56.399
<v Speaker 15>try to argue TAG as to like what is the

1655
01:40:56.479 --> 01:40:59.159
<v Speaker 15>mechanism in which God gives us knowledge?

1656
01:40:59.239 --> 01:41:01.079
<v Speaker 1>And I don't really know where to go from there.

1657
01:41:03.039 --> 01:41:08.640
<v Speaker 2>So the Christian worldview presents a specific paradigm of epistemology, metaphysics,

1658
01:41:08.680 --> 01:41:11.039
<v Speaker 2>and ethics, and so all three of those things are

1659
01:41:11.119 --> 01:41:14.600
<v Speaker 2>what you're arguing for I think when you're arguing TAG.

1660
01:41:15.039 --> 01:41:19.239
<v Speaker 2>So TAG is a supra argument that sort of encompasses

1661
01:41:19.319 --> 01:41:23.279
<v Speaker 2>like an umbrella, those three domains of a worldview. So,

1662
01:41:23.479 --> 01:41:27.720
<v Speaker 2>for example, Christianity has a specific metaphysic about the natural world,

1663
01:41:28.119 --> 01:41:31.439
<v Speaker 2>about the regularity of nature, providence, etc. Those things are

1664
01:41:31.479 --> 01:41:34.520
<v Speaker 2>the basis, for example, of induction, and so induction is

1665
01:41:34.600 --> 01:41:39.479
<v Speaker 2>possible because of the Christian metaphysic of divine providence, et cetera.

1666
01:41:39.720 --> 01:41:44.359
<v Speaker 2>So that's one example to where induction or identity over

1667
01:41:44.479 --> 01:41:47.359
<v Speaker 2>time is not a problem in a Christian paradigm because

1668
01:41:47.680 --> 01:41:51.960
<v Speaker 2>the entire Christian ethos and metaphysic has God creating the world,

1669
01:41:52.079 --> 01:41:56.359
<v Speaker 2>with things having natures, things having secondary causal powers, et cetera.

1670
01:41:56.720 --> 01:42:02.159
<v Speaker 2>So if you're having that metaphysic then that explains and

1671
01:42:02.279 --> 01:42:06.319
<v Speaker 2>grounds how it's possible to have those things. It doesn't

1672
01:42:06.439 --> 01:42:10.800
<v Speaker 2>exhaustively explain every element of a worldview or every question.

1673
01:42:11.439 --> 01:42:14.439
<v Speaker 2>It makes possible those things. So that's I think a

1674
01:42:14.479 --> 01:42:18.039
<v Speaker 2>lot of people mistake the transitional argument for an exhaustive

1675
01:42:18.119 --> 01:42:22.119
<v Speaker 2>explanation for everything, or an exhaustive explanation for every aspect

1676
01:42:22.199 --> 01:42:22.800
<v Speaker 2>of a worldview.

1677
01:42:22.800 --> 01:42:22.840
<v Speaker 1>No.

1678
01:42:22.880 --> 01:42:27.439
<v Speaker 2>No, it's an explanation for how it's possible to have

1679
01:42:27.640 --> 01:42:30.960
<v Speaker 2>those things, which is a meta level argument. So the

1680
01:42:31.039 --> 01:42:34.760
<v Speaker 2>atheist paradigm, for an example here, contrasted to that paradigm,

1681
01:42:35.359 --> 01:42:39.560
<v Speaker 2>how does it even make possible knowledge or metaphysical claims

1682
01:42:39.680 --> 01:42:42.880
<v Speaker 2>at all? So the argument is not about the claims

1683
01:42:42.920 --> 01:42:46.000
<v Speaker 2>themselves in terms of whether there's tels or whether there's

1684
01:42:46.039 --> 01:42:49.119
<v Speaker 2>this or that. It's a question of whether the worldview

1685
01:42:49.399 --> 01:42:53.039
<v Speaker 2>makes it possible to have metaphysics and knowledge and ethics.

1686
01:42:54.000 --> 01:42:56.079
<v Speaker 15>I mean, I don't even see a way that they

1687
01:42:56.159 --> 01:42:58.600
<v Speaker 15>can they can get out of their own senses. And

1688
01:42:58.800 --> 01:43:01.239
<v Speaker 15>it seems like, on the same hand, they're trying to

1689
01:43:01.319 --> 01:43:06.199
<v Speaker 15>say that everything they get or practically everything they get,

1690
01:43:06.319 --> 01:43:07.600
<v Speaker 15>is via their senses.

1691
01:43:08.159 --> 01:43:11.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, and even the senses doesn't even make sense

1692
01:43:11.359 --> 01:43:15.920
<v Speaker 2>that that assumes that there's reliable, meaningful information and data

1693
01:43:16.039 --> 01:43:19.760
<v Speaker 2>coming in from the external world that's distinct from you know,

1694
01:43:20.279 --> 01:43:24.279
<v Speaker 2>merely sensual reactions of you know, hot cold, this kind

1695
01:43:24.279 --> 01:43:26.680
<v Speaker 2>of stuff like even hot and cold. Assumes that there's

1696
01:43:26.680 --> 01:43:29.840
<v Speaker 2>some kind of like meaningful data interaction with an external world,

1697
01:43:30.079 --> 01:43:33.079
<v Speaker 2>none of which has actually proven. They just assume it, right,

1698
01:43:33.199 --> 01:43:34.800
<v Speaker 2>And and that's what I was gonna say.

1699
01:43:34.840 --> 01:43:37.159
<v Speaker 15>On the same hand, they they also say that your

1700
01:43:37.199 --> 01:43:40.520
<v Speaker 15>senses are also not reliable, exactly when I asked them to.

1701
01:43:40.800 --> 01:43:44.119
<v Speaker 15>Like so it's just I don't know how they do it,

1702
01:43:44.279 --> 01:43:45.039
<v Speaker 15>but like.

1703
01:43:45.159 --> 01:43:48.479
<v Speaker 2>So let me, let me let me well, and not

1704
01:43:48.600 --> 01:43:51.119
<v Speaker 2>even just not reliable, but like what's the difference between

1705
01:43:51.760 --> 01:43:56.479
<v Speaker 2>you know, like when my when my hand reacts to

1706
01:43:56.600 --> 01:43:58.960
<v Speaker 2>a hot stove and I and I jerk my hand

1707
01:43:59.079 --> 01:44:04.800
<v Speaker 2>back because of the heat. Like why is that an instinctual,

1708
01:44:04.920 --> 01:44:11.239
<v Speaker 2>sort of non important, not meaningful action versus the information

1709
01:44:11.439 --> 01:44:14.640
<v Speaker 2>that comes in when I look at and touch the book, right,

1710
01:44:14.760 --> 01:44:19.640
<v Speaker 2>So it's like this is a meaningful, information rich activity

1711
01:44:19.760 --> 01:44:23.279
<v Speaker 2>looking at the book and touching it, smelling, licking the

1712
01:44:23.359 --> 01:44:26.119
<v Speaker 2>book right, tasting to see what it did that versus

1713
01:44:26.399 --> 01:44:30.960
<v Speaker 2>like the instinctual things of yawning or whatever, like things

1714
01:44:31.000 --> 01:44:34.159
<v Speaker 2>that are not supposedly meaningful, or information coming in from

1715
01:44:34.199 --> 01:44:37.199
<v Speaker 2>the external world that doesn't really Like, there's this, there's

1716
01:44:37.199 --> 01:44:40.159
<v Speaker 2>an assumption that, oh, that's a class of things that

1717
01:44:40.439 --> 01:44:43.079
<v Speaker 2>matter versus all these other things they don't matter. Well,

1718
01:44:43.159 --> 01:44:46.399
<v Speaker 2>if I'm just a meat bag and this is just

1719
01:44:46.600 --> 01:44:52.760
<v Speaker 2>like random stuff occurring, there's no classification of meaningful actions

1720
01:44:52.880 --> 01:44:59.479
<v Speaker 2>versus non meaningful or instinctual actions versus rational high tier

1721
01:44:59.600 --> 01:45:02.199
<v Speaker 2>sophistic Again, they're all just it's all just the same

1722
01:45:03.079 --> 01:45:05.279
<v Speaker 2>bunch of things happening which have no meaning.

1723
01:45:06.600 --> 01:45:08.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, well I don't even know. I don't

1724
01:45:08.479 --> 01:45:08.760
<v Speaker 1>even know.

1725
01:45:09.079 --> 01:45:11.520
<v Speaker 15>Like usually what they mean by meaning in the first

1726
01:45:11.560 --> 01:45:14.800
<v Speaker 15>place is just what they're privy to, like what they like,

1727
01:45:15.439 --> 01:45:17.479
<v Speaker 15>you know. So I don't even think, you know, I

1728
01:45:17.520 --> 01:45:19.000
<v Speaker 15>don't even think that they can get out of that.

1729
01:45:19.119 --> 01:45:20.600
<v Speaker 15>But let me let me ask you this, and uh,

1730
01:45:20.920 --> 01:45:22.680
<v Speaker 15>you know, I won't take up too much of your time.

1731
01:45:23.000 --> 01:45:24.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I could talk all day about it.

1732
01:45:25.039 --> 01:45:29.119
<v Speaker 15>But so I'm having trouble.

1733
01:45:29.920 --> 01:45:32.520
<v Speaker 1>Let me let me put it this way. How can

1734
01:45:32.760 --> 01:45:33.239
<v Speaker 1>I know?

1735
01:45:34.119 --> 01:45:35.880
<v Speaker 15>Right, Let's say that you're you're saying that God is

1736
01:45:35.960 --> 01:45:39.520
<v Speaker 15>giving me information somewhere right, Like, I get divine providence

1737
01:45:39.640 --> 01:45:41.600
<v Speaker 15>that that he set up the world in such a

1738
01:45:41.640 --> 01:45:44.399
<v Speaker 15>way where it acts regular because he created it right,

1739
01:45:44.439 --> 01:45:46.439
<v Speaker 15>and he's instantiating that at all times.

1740
01:45:46.479 --> 01:45:47.720
<v Speaker 5>Therefore, we can know.

1741
01:45:48.720 --> 01:45:50.680
<v Speaker 15>That our past future, well, we don't even need the

1742
01:45:51.159 --> 01:45:53.600
<v Speaker 15>past futures because we have information about future futures.

1743
01:45:53.800 --> 01:45:57.079
<v Speaker 1>Right, I get that, But I don't.

1744
01:45:57.399 --> 01:45:59.880
<v Speaker 15>I'm having trouble on the epistemology side, right.

1745
01:46:00.119 --> 01:46:00.800
<v Speaker 1>I think I.

1746
01:46:00.920 --> 01:46:03.359
<v Speaker 15>Understand the metaphysic of it, and I definitely understand the

1747
01:46:03.399 --> 01:46:07.000
<v Speaker 15>ethics of it, but I'm having trouble on the epistemology

1748
01:46:07.119 --> 01:46:07.319
<v Speaker 15>of it.

1749
01:46:10.119 --> 01:46:15.279
<v Speaker 2>Okay, what specifically, I don't know how.

1750
01:46:15.239 --> 01:46:19.119
<v Speaker 15>I can know that divine divine providence.

1751
01:46:20.920 --> 01:46:22.520
<v Speaker 1>Is what is keeping it right.

1752
01:46:24.079 --> 01:46:28.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, the argument is that ultimately it's a theonymous epistemology,

1753
01:46:28.880 --> 01:46:32.399
<v Speaker 2>meaning that it's grounded in the divine revelation that God

1754
01:46:32.880 --> 01:46:36.439
<v Speaker 2>maintains the universe through his energy of divine providence. So

1755
01:46:36.560 --> 01:46:40.359
<v Speaker 2>the way that we know it is because of divine revelation. Ultimately,

1756
01:46:40.880 --> 01:46:43.319
<v Speaker 2>we're not knowing it in the sense of like, oh,

1757
01:46:43.399 --> 01:46:46.560
<v Speaker 2>we did an exhaustive, you know, computer data analysis of

1758
01:46:46.600 --> 01:46:48.439
<v Speaker 2>the natural world that tells us that there must be

1759
01:46:48.479 --> 01:46:52.079
<v Speaker 2>a being that's providential. No, it's it's literally from divine revelation.

1760
01:46:52.680 --> 01:46:54.880
<v Speaker 2>And so, well, how do you know that revelation's true. Well,

1761
01:46:55.000 --> 01:46:58.640
<v Speaker 2>the way I would know, first and foremost is because

1762
01:46:58.680 --> 01:47:02.880
<v Speaker 2>of the reliability of that worldview. In other words, the

1763
01:47:03.000 --> 01:47:08.239
<v Speaker 2>worldview itself is what makes possible having knowledge or metaphysics

1764
01:47:08.319 --> 01:47:11.880
<v Speaker 2>at all. So, in other words, the epistemology is grounded

1765
01:47:11.960 --> 01:47:16.880
<v Speaker 2>in the revealed doctrines, the revelation of God's self, disclosure

1766
01:47:16.920 --> 01:47:21.520
<v Speaker 2>of who he is, Trinity, et cetera, his third eye, God,

1767
01:47:21.640 --> 01:47:22.760
<v Speaker 2>perspective of history.

1768
01:47:23.399 --> 01:47:31.680
<v Speaker 1>So is something is it something like through the world we.

1769
01:47:31.720 --> 01:47:35.039
<v Speaker 15>Can observe divine providence, right, and you would call that

1770
01:47:35.199 --> 01:47:36.680
<v Speaker 15>observation revelation.

1771
01:47:37.800 --> 01:47:40.760
<v Speaker 2>No, I'm saying that the way that I know that

1772
01:47:41.319 --> 01:47:45.960
<v Speaker 2>providence is the answer to the question of induction and

1773
01:47:46.000 --> 01:47:49.119
<v Speaker 2>the regulatory of nature is because of divine revelation. Divine

1774
01:47:49.159 --> 01:47:51.880
<v Speaker 2>revelation tells me that God created the world in a

1775
01:47:52.000 --> 01:47:54.600
<v Speaker 2>regular way that in Genesis won the seasons will continue

1776
01:47:54.640 --> 01:47:57.199
<v Speaker 2>until the end of the world. The seasons act as

1777
01:47:57.239 --> 01:48:01.319
<v Speaker 2>a kind of a you know, world clock, until there's

1778
01:48:01.399 --> 01:48:03.520
<v Speaker 2>an end of the universe whenever God determines that to be.

1779
01:48:03.720 --> 01:48:07.479
<v Speaker 2>So that regularity is not something that I just want,

1780
01:48:07.680 --> 01:48:09.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, Like, so I go out and I look

1781
01:48:09.399 --> 01:48:11.359
<v Speaker 2>at the seasons, and yeah, I see a kind of

1782
01:48:11.359 --> 01:48:15.119
<v Speaker 2>a regularity. But the basis for why I think it's

1783
01:48:15.279 --> 01:48:17.640
<v Speaker 2>divine regularity would be divine revelation.

1784
01:48:18.720 --> 01:48:19.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I get that.

1785
01:48:19.720 --> 01:48:21.720
<v Speaker 15>Maybe I could have been more clear when I said observation,

1786
01:48:21.800 --> 01:48:26.960
<v Speaker 15>because like I think, I consider reading reading scripture and observation.

1787
01:48:27.640 --> 01:48:29.319
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, no, so that this is this is

1788
01:48:29.640 --> 01:48:35.000
<v Speaker 2>so the faculty of reading, or your senses and sense data,

1789
01:48:35.560 --> 01:48:39.399
<v Speaker 2>is not the equivalent of revelation because your faculties are

1790
01:48:39.439 --> 01:48:44.680
<v Speaker 2>created faculties. Divine revelation is God's own self disclosure of himself,

1791
01:48:44.840 --> 01:48:47.399
<v Speaker 2>which is of his own divine thoughts or low gi

1792
01:48:47.560 --> 01:48:52.159
<v Speaker 2>or divine ideas. That's uncreated divine revelation. And so your

1793
01:48:52.439 --> 01:48:57.640
<v Speaker 2>created faculties and senses are perceiving the uncreated, sometimes to

1794
01:48:57.760 --> 01:49:01.439
<v Speaker 2>the created and ultimately antheosis we hope eventually directly.

1795
01:49:02.640 --> 01:49:05.119
<v Speaker 15>Okay, I got, I gotta, I got some of that.

1796
01:49:06.560 --> 01:49:09.159
<v Speaker 15>I think it would for me to absorb all of it.

1797
01:49:09.239 --> 01:49:10.520
<v Speaker 2>Do you do you have any good Let me give

1798
01:49:10.520 --> 01:49:13.119
<v Speaker 2>an example. So, like when you're observing the natural world,

1799
01:49:13.640 --> 01:49:18.520
<v Speaker 2>that's not divine revelation. Yeah, that's you observing the natural

1800
01:49:18.560 --> 01:49:22.239
<v Speaker 2>world and you can do what Saint Maximus calls a

1801
01:49:22.319 --> 01:49:27.159
<v Speaker 2>kind of natural contemplation to see the divine behind that

1802
01:49:27.399 --> 01:49:31.279
<v Speaker 2>or through that, and in a sense it could potentially

1803
01:49:31.359 --> 01:49:33.880
<v Speaker 2>become divine revelation, because he says something like when we

1804
01:49:34.000 --> 01:49:38.079
<v Speaker 2>see God, we eventually see all things in God. Right,

1805
01:49:38.279 --> 01:49:43.520
<v Speaker 2>so it's it's potentially revelation, but just perceiving the natural

1806
01:49:43.560 --> 01:49:46.880
<v Speaker 2>world itself is not necessarily relationship.

1807
01:49:46.960 --> 01:49:49.399
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, right, right, I get that.

1808
01:49:49.560 --> 01:49:52.800
<v Speaker 15>I think that I need to study moral on on exactly.

1809
01:49:53.039 --> 01:49:54.359
<v Speaker 15>I mean, don't get me wrong. I think that you

1810
01:49:54.399 --> 01:49:57.000
<v Speaker 15>did good there. It just seems like divine revelation is

1811
01:49:57.039 --> 01:49:57.640
<v Speaker 15>a huge topic.

1812
01:49:57.760 --> 01:50:01.159
<v Speaker 2>Well, i'll tell you what to read on this. This

1813
01:50:01.760 --> 01:50:06.199
<v Speaker 2>Saint Justin Popovich's chapter on Saint Isaac the Syrian called

1814
01:50:06.199 --> 01:50:10.520
<v Speaker 2>the Mystery of Knowledge, and there he will distinguish revelation, knowledge,

1815
01:50:10.560 --> 01:50:12.399
<v Speaker 2>et cetera. It's a very good chapter.

1816
01:50:12.479 --> 01:50:15.079
<v Speaker 1>Okay, all right, I appreciate it. Thanks.

1817
01:50:15.399 --> 01:50:17.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's in the book Life in Christ by Saint

1818
01:50:17.479 --> 01:50:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Justin Papovich and FDA. If you wanted to comment on

1819
01:50:24.079 --> 01:50:32.319
<v Speaker 2>any of that about revelation, feel free. Welcome everybody. We're

1820
01:50:32.319 --> 01:50:35.119
<v Speaker 2>having open debate We've had some great discussions so far.

1821
01:50:35.640 --> 01:50:37.880
<v Speaker 2>We had one kind of wacko fed dude who was

1822
01:50:37.960 --> 01:50:41.000
<v Speaker 2>going crazy, but pretty much on the whole, We've had

1823
01:50:41.039 --> 01:50:44.760
<v Speaker 2>a really cool, calm, civil discussion. We had that one

1824
01:50:45.000 --> 01:50:50.880
<v Speaker 2>kind of goofy Protestant guy. So we're batting about eight

1825
01:50:50.960 --> 01:50:54.520
<v Speaker 2>for ten today, eight for ten for quality versus crazy

1826
01:50:56.039 --> 01:51:05.560
<v Speaker 2>Palestine Palestine. By the way, if you want to follow

1827
01:51:05.640 --> 01:51:07.399
<v Speaker 2>me on X you can follow me right over here

1828
01:51:08.520 --> 01:51:10.159
<v Speaker 2>and help me out. I'm almost two.

1829
01:51:10.720 --> 01:51:17.039
<v Speaker 26>What's up, hi, Jay, thanks for the mic man, my

1830
01:51:17.159 --> 01:51:21.560
<v Speaker 26>first time here. I'm a Muslim, I thought, Yeah, so

1831
01:51:21.800 --> 01:51:27.560
<v Speaker 26>I I am not that much knowledgeable on uh, like

1832
01:51:27.800 --> 01:51:30.840
<v Speaker 26>the different Christians six I know, like all of those

1833
01:51:31.039 --> 01:51:31.560
<v Speaker 26>Catholic and.

1834
01:51:33.079 --> 01:51:35.000
<v Speaker 11>I have a few questions for you, but I just

1835
01:51:35.079 --> 01:51:37.399
<v Speaker 11>wanted to We're Orthodox here, so go ahead.

1836
01:51:38.399 --> 01:51:39.239
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So I just.

1837
01:51:39.279 --> 01:51:44.199
<v Speaker 11>Wanted to ask if your questions before that, like have

1838
01:51:44.520 --> 01:51:46.359
<v Speaker 11>you studied.

1839
01:51:47.000 --> 01:51:50.920
<v Speaker 1>The religion of Islam like at all? Or or Quran? Yeah?

1840
01:51:51.319 --> 01:51:53.279
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I've

1841
01:51:53.319 --> 01:51:56.359
<v Speaker 2>debated all of your top guys for the last five years.

1842
01:51:57.640 --> 01:52:02.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay, cool, So the only one I think the main

1843
01:52:03.359 --> 01:52:10.720
<v Speaker 1>point that most Muslims say is like the as you

1844
01:52:10.800 --> 01:52:13.880
<v Speaker 1>said just now, that that the Bible.

1845
01:52:15.800 --> 01:52:20.279
<v Speaker 26>Was written like, uh, and depending on on this, the

1846
01:52:20.479 --> 01:52:24.079
<v Speaker 26>people that were there who wrote the Bible, because the

1847
01:52:24.159 --> 01:52:25.640
<v Speaker 26>Bible has been changed.

1848
01:52:26.600 --> 01:52:29.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, now that's your assertion. But hold on, hold on,

1849
01:52:29.479 --> 01:52:31.720
<v Speaker 2>that's your assertion that the Bible was changed. And what

1850
01:52:31.920 --> 01:52:34.119
<v Speaker 2>is your actual evidence or proof of that, because the

1851
01:52:34.479 --> 01:52:36.319
<v Speaker 2>Quran does not say the Bible was changed?

1852
01:52:39.439 --> 01:52:42.680
<v Speaker 26>No, no, But but you just said that, you know,

1853
01:52:44.119 --> 01:52:49.439
<v Speaker 26>the writings in the Bible depended on the people that No.

1854
01:52:49.560 --> 01:52:51.760
<v Speaker 2>I said that the collection of the books, which we

1855
01:52:51.880 --> 01:52:54.000
<v Speaker 2>call the canon. In other words, the canon means the

1856
01:52:54.039 --> 01:52:56.720
<v Speaker 2>books that were decided upon to go into the Bible,

1857
01:52:56.800 --> 01:52:59.239
<v Speaker 2>which is this big collection here of a bunch of

1858
01:52:59.319 --> 01:53:01.479
<v Speaker 2>the Bible is a bunch of little books. Right. So

1859
01:53:01.720 --> 01:53:04.399
<v Speaker 2>what I'm saying is that the community of people, namely

1860
01:53:04.479 --> 01:53:07.479
<v Speaker 2>the Church of the first seven eight hundred years, is

1861
01:53:07.520 --> 01:53:10.960
<v Speaker 2>who determined what books go into this big book. That's

1862
01:53:11.000 --> 01:53:12.960
<v Speaker 2>what I was saying. I didn't say they changed.

1863
01:53:12.720 --> 01:53:16.600
<v Speaker 26>It, right, right, So the original version is still there,

1864
01:53:16.760 --> 01:53:18.960
<v Speaker 26>like it's still exists.

1865
01:53:19.239 --> 01:53:22.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. If you look up the comparison of the manuscripts

1866
01:53:22.199 --> 01:53:25.199
<v Speaker 2>of the earliest versions of the New Testament, there's about

1867
01:53:25.239 --> 01:53:28.680
<v Speaker 2>a ninety five to ninety seven percent unanimity and accuracy

1868
01:53:28.720 --> 01:53:32.520
<v Speaker 2>amongst the various manuscript traditions. That's the highest amongst any

1869
01:53:32.680 --> 01:53:33.640
<v Speaker 2>of the ancient texts.

1870
01:53:35.680 --> 01:53:42.039
<v Speaker 26>Right, But then Quran does say that, and you you

1871
01:53:42.199 --> 01:53:45.079
<v Speaker 26>probably know already that we have very high like we

1872
01:53:45.399 --> 01:53:51.239
<v Speaker 26>think Christians are the closest to us, like because it

1873
01:53:51.399 --> 01:53:54.239
<v Speaker 26>also mentions because they have love in their heart right

1874
01:53:54.359 --> 01:53:55.159
<v Speaker 26>like the Christians.

1875
01:53:55.239 --> 01:53:58.119
<v Speaker 2>Well, the Qoran also says that people who believe in

1876
01:53:59.520 --> 01:54:02.560
<v Speaker 2>partners with Allah or idolators and should be killed. So

1877
01:54:02.640 --> 01:54:04.560
<v Speaker 2>now I don't think you actually believe that we're close.

1878
01:54:06.159 --> 01:54:11.239
<v Speaker 11>No, No, so that that's very upcoming. Quran says that.

1879
01:54:12.640 --> 01:54:17.039
<v Speaker 26>Jesus was a prophet, a messenger and not a son

1880
01:54:17.119 --> 01:54:20.920
<v Speaker 26>of God. But Christians have like changed it or.

1881
01:54:21.079 --> 01:54:23.439
<v Speaker 2>No, I understand that that's what you say, we believe.

1882
01:54:23.560 --> 01:54:28.800
<v Speaker 2>I understand that. But what I'm arguing is that in reality,

1883
01:54:29.159 --> 01:54:33.199
<v Speaker 2>the Quran also says, and I believe the Quran contradicts.

1884
01:54:33.239 --> 01:54:34.760
<v Speaker 2>I know you don't think it does, but I believe

1885
01:54:34.760 --> 01:54:37.760
<v Speaker 2>that it does. So we have competing We have competing claim.

1886
01:54:37.840 --> 01:54:40.199
<v Speaker 2>You believe your book is correct and doesn't contradict. I

1887
01:54:40.279 --> 01:54:43.119
<v Speaker 2>believe my book is correct and doesn't contradict. My argument

1888
01:54:43.279 --> 01:54:46.880
<v Speaker 2>is that the Quran itself, for example, in five forty

1889
01:54:46.960 --> 01:54:50.680
<v Speaker 2>six and forty seven, says that Allah revealed himself in

1890
01:54:50.800 --> 01:54:55.640
<v Speaker 2>the Torah and in a previous revelation. And so is

1891
01:54:55.720 --> 01:54:57.600
<v Speaker 2>it true that all those words can be corrupted?

1892
01:55:01.399 --> 01:55:04.439
<v Speaker 11>Yes, people, people corrupted.

1893
01:55:04.079 --> 01:55:07.479
<v Speaker 2>It, right, Well, I thought, so hold on, So then

1894
01:55:07.680 --> 01:55:09.720
<v Speaker 2>then the Kuran could be corrupted if people can corrupt

1895
01:55:09.760 --> 01:55:11.960
<v Speaker 2>all his words, right, So that's where.

1896
01:55:11.800 --> 01:55:15.399
<v Speaker 11>I'm coming at. So in Quran, Allah has mentioned that.

1897
01:55:17.039 --> 01:55:22.079
<v Speaker 26>He's taken responsibility by himself, that this book will never

1898
01:55:22.199 --> 01:55:23.760
<v Speaker 26>be changed because there's the laws.

1899
01:55:23.920 --> 01:55:25.720
<v Speaker 2>But wait a minute, it was his work. So he

1900
01:55:25.880 --> 01:55:29.039
<v Speaker 2>wasn't responsible in the prior revelations that the humans corrupted.

1901
01:55:29.079 --> 01:55:30.840
<v Speaker 2>He wasn't responsible for those. But he's going to be

1902
01:55:30.880 --> 01:55:31.600
<v Speaker 2>responsible now.

1903
01:55:32.800 --> 01:55:35.079
<v Speaker 26>No, But he gave an open hand, like he gave

1904
01:55:36.560 --> 01:55:40.359
<v Speaker 26>people the responsibility to be you know.

1905
01:55:40.560 --> 01:55:43.039
<v Speaker 2>Good, Okay, so Uthman and all of that with the

1906
01:55:43.079 --> 01:55:45.920
<v Speaker 2>burning of the various korans, was that also his responsibility

1907
01:55:46.000 --> 01:55:46.600
<v Speaker 2>or how did that work?

1908
01:55:47.079 --> 01:55:47.119
<v Speaker 18>No?

1909
01:55:47.199 --> 01:55:50.880
<v Speaker 11>No, no, no, So so Quran doesn't like book doesn't matter.

1910
01:55:51.000 --> 01:55:53.520
<v Speaker 2>I tell you why, because the book doesn't matter of

1911
01:55:53.600 --> 01:56:03.439
<v Speaker 2>the prophet, right, the book doesn't matter seth, sir, what's up?

1912
01:56:09.279 --> 01:56:16.239
<v Speaker 2>The book doesn't matter now, so what's up? Yeah?

1913
01:56:17.800 --> 01:56:20.399
<v Speaker 1>I should probably hop off and hop back in. Uh,

1914
01:56:21.119 --> 01:56:24.119
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of I got him at the worst possible.

1915
01:56:23.800 --> 01:56:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Time, So that's fine. Yeah, come back when you're ready. Roscoe. Hello, Yeah,

1916
01:56:40.960 --> 01:56:41.279
<v Speaker 2>what's up?

1917
01:56:42.399 --> 01:56:42.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

1918
01:56:42.600 --> 01:56:45.960
<v Speaker 16>I have a question about Uh, absolutely defined simplicity from

1919
01:56:46.000 --> 01:56:47.000
<v Speaker 16>a perspective.

1920
01:56:48.079 --> 01:56:48.399
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

1921
01:56:49.560 --> 01:56:53.039
<v Speaker 16>I was talking to my Iranian SHEI have friend, and

1922
01:56:53.680 --> 01:56:58.920
<v Speaker 16>he said that Allah reveals himself through intermediary created principles

1923
01:56:59.000 --> 01:57:01.000
<v Speaker 16>like the mom or the created.

1924
01:57:01.479 --> 01:57:03.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it just moves the problem back a step.

1925
01:57:03.319 --> 01:57:05.800
<v Speaker 2>So I was listening to all of doctor Khalil's talk

1926
01:57:05.880 --> 01:57:08.359
<v Speaker 2>on all of that and everything that he was critiquing

1927
01:57:08.439 --> 01:57:11.720
<v Speaker 2>the other positions for He's in the exact same boat.

1928
01:57:11.840 --> 01:57:15.520
<v Speaker 2>Because if Gabriel gets the revelation from Allah and then

1929
01:57:16.000 --> 01:57:20.800
<v Speaker 2>and then Gabriel makes it accessible to the humans, Jabril

1930
01:57:20.880 --> 01:57:22.800
<v Speaker 2>is still a creature. So how is he getting these

1931
01:57:22.920 --> 01:57:23.720
<v Speaker 2>uncreated words?

1932
01:57:25.399 --> 01:57:27.640
<v Speaker 16>Well, they don't believe it's uncreated like she has will

1933
01:57:27.680 --> 01:57:30.960
<v Speaker 16>say that for example, the Kuran doesn't it does it does?

1934
01:57:31.239 --> 01:57:33.640
<v Speaker 5>It can be corrupted in their religion, that's what they believe.

1935
01:57:34.000 --> 01:57:35.960
<v Speaker 2>But I'm saying that I'm not talking about the book,

1936
01:57:36.000 --> 01:57:41.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about the revelation from the Eternal Scroll or

1937
01:57:41.359 --> 01:57:46.920
<v Speaker 2>whatever to that Jabril is the problem is between Allah

1938
01:57:47.119 --> 01:57:50.800
<v Speaker 2>and Jabril. It's the same problem because Jabril is a creature.

1939
01:57:52.319 --> 01:57:55.119
<v Speaker 5>So are you saying that, like, how does Jabriel ground

1940
01:57:55.199 --> 01:57:55.760
<v Speaker 5>this knowledge?

1941
01:57:57.119 --> 01:58:00.000
<v Speaker 2>The problem? So if you watch doctor Khlill's lecture where

1942
01:58:00.079 --> 01:58:03.520
<v Speaker 2>he critiques the Ashari and the Wahabbies and all of that,

1943
01:58:04.239 --> 01:58:07.680
<v Speaker 2>he talks about the different positions and he says that

1944
01:58:09.560 --> 01:58:12.439
<v Speaker 2>the the way that the going from memory, the way

1945
01:58:12.479 --> 01:58:15.399
<v Speaker 2>the the Shari discuss it is that they don't believe

1946
01:58:15.439 --> 01:58:18.359
<v Speaker 2>that Allah has parts, but they do believe that there's

1947
01:58:18.399 --> 01:58:21.880
<v Speaker 2>this uncreated Qur'an. And so how is there an uncreated

1948
01:58:21.960 --> 01:58:24.479
<v Speaker 2>Qur'an that's other than Allah? And so my point is

1949
01:58:24.560 --> 01:58:28.600
<v Speaker 2>just simply that if he believes that there's an uncreated

1950
01:58:28.840 --> 01:58:33.159
<v Speaker 2>or achievement that there's an eternal tablet, that it's still

1951
01:58:33.800 --> 01:58:38.840
<v Speaker 2>there's still a gap between the uncreated, whether it's from

1952
01:58:38.880 --> 01:58:41.199
<v Speaker 2>Allah to the tablet or whether it's from the tablets

1953
01:58:41.239 --> 01:58:45.960
<v Speaker 2>to Jabril. The problem still remains. If there's nothing like Allah,

1954
01:58:46.199 --> 01:58:48.800
<v Speaker 2>then how do you get any point in this chain

1955
01:58:48.920 --> 01:58:51.279
<v Speaker 2>of a created similarity to the uncreated.

1956
01:58:52.720 --> 01:58:57.119
<v Speaker 16>Yeah, that's what I asked him, and he, I guess prevaricated.

1957
01:58:57.279 --> 01:59:02.000
<v Speaker 16>I tried forcing an analogical predication, which we contradict his ads, right,

1958
01:59:02.319 --> 01:59:07.319
<v Speaker 16>but he kept on saying that the action is only

1959
01:59:07.399 --> 01:59:11.039
<v Speaker 16>done through the imoms from all of creation, and that

1960
01:59:11.119 --> 01:59:12.560
<v Speaker 16>these are creative effects and they're.

1961
01:59:12.399 --> 01:59:13.199
<v Speaker 1>Not like Allah.

1962
01:59:13.920 --> 01:59:16.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, a creative effect does not like the uncreated.

1963
01:59:16.800 --> 01:59:20.399
<v Speaker 16>So when I tried saying, like, for example, is Allah's

1964
01:59:20.600 --> 01:59:21.960
<v Speaker 16>knowledge uncreated?

1965
01:59:22.560 --> 01:59:24.399
<v Speaker 5>How do you share this? How do you share a.

1966
01:59:24.399 --> 01:59:27.680
<v Speaker 16>Similarity to what what knowledge Allah has revealed to you?

1967
01:59:27.760 --> 01:59:32.439
<v Speaker 16>He said you appealed to the logic of Dionysius and said, well,

1968
01:59:32.520 --> 01:59:34.960
<v Speaker 16>Allah is not lacking and knowledge he surpasses it to

1969
01:59:35.039 --> 01:59:40.000
<v Speaker 16>the extent that he's not lacking, but it's sort of

1970
01:59:40.119 --> 01:59:41.359
<v Speaker 16>overflowing in him.

1971
01:59:41.439 --> 01:59:43.760
<v Speaker 5>And it's so, is it sort of super knowledge that

1972
01:59:43.880 --> 01:59:44.640
<v Speaker 5>cannot be compared?

1973
01:59:44.880 --> 01:59:46.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, how does he know that? Though, I mean, he

1974
01:59:46.279 --> 01:59:48.000
<v Speaker 2>would have to have access to the thing that he

1975
01:59:48.159 --> 01:59:49.399
<v Speaker 2>says is in question.

1976
01:59:50.279 --> 01:59:51.000
<v Speaker 5>It's in his Uh.

1977
01:59:51.159 --> 01:59:53.880
<v Speaker 16>I'm pretty sure some of these shiah hideas and then

1978
01:59:53.960 --> 01:59:54.920
<v Speaker 16>thems no.

1979
01:59:55.039 --> 01:59:57.039
<v Speaker 2>But I'm saying that you can appeal to that, But

1980
01:59:57.159 --> 01:59:59.079
<v Speaker 2>that's still begging the question that how do we know

1981
01:59:59.159 --> 02:00:01.560
<v Speaker 2>that it's actually matt up to the thing that's beyond.

1982
02:00:04.239 --> 02:00:06.479
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, there's no predication for them as all apathetic.

1983
02:00:08.760 --> 02:00:10.880
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, that's what I'm trying to say, is like,

1984
02:00:11.159 --> 02:00:13.960
<v Speaker 2>you can't have a totally apathetic system. At some point,

1985
02:00:14.000 --> 02:00:16.159
<v Speaker 2>you're going to have to have something cataphatic to be

1986
02:00:16.199 --> 02:00:19.159
<v Speaker 2>able to speak about it. But they've already sort of

1987
02:00:19.359 --> 02:00:23.199
<v Speaker 2>shot themselves in the foot with their either their ADS

1988
02:00:23.520 --> 02:00:26.880
<v Speaker 2>or just the you know, Quran forty two that there's

1989
02:00:26.920 --> 02:00:27.800
<v Speaker 2>nothing like a lat.

1990
02:00:29.319 --> 02:00:32.279
<v Speaker 16>Okay, I guess I'll have to investigate it a little

1991
02:00:32.279 --> 02:00:34.039
<v Speaker 16>bit more to explain it to him. But do you

1992
02:00:34.119 --> 02:00:37.119
<v Speaker 16>have any books critiquing this sort of neoplatonism and the

1993
02:00:37.159 --> 02:00:39.680
<v Speaker 16>ADS in general that you because we're just online resources.

1994
02:00:39.720 --> 02:00:41.920
<v Speaker 2>In general, I mean all the Orthodox Church fathers, I

1995
02:00:42.000 --> 02:00:45.119
<v Speaker 2>mean especially the Cave Docians, like when they're responding to Eunomius.

1996
02:00:45.479 --> 02:00:49.279
<v Speaker 2>Eunomius is a neoplatonist. So every argument for the essence

1997
02:00:49.319 --> 02:00:53.560
<v Speaker 2>introduce sinction is by default an argument against the ADS

1998
02:00:53.880 --> 02:00:56.800
<v Speaker 2>Neoplatonic Roman Caloic position.

1999
02:00:57.880 --> 02:01:00.680
<v Speaker 16>Yeah, I've seen some of these quotes, but honestly, I

2000
02:01:00.720 --> 02:01:03.840
<v Speaker 16>think that only really maps on to like a worldview

2001
02:01:03.880 --> 02:01:07.079
<v Speaker 16>where there's Christian presuppositions, you know what I'm saying, where

2002
02:01:07.119 --> 02:01:09.319
<v Speaker 16>like there's a common sort of revelation that doesn't really

2003
02:01:09.359 --> 02:01:11.520
<v Speaker 16>exist in the Muslim worldon.

2004
02:01:11.239 --> 02:01:14.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, okay, but but what I'm saying is that the

2005
02:01:14.680 --> 02:01:19.239
<v Speaker 2>way that we go about critiquing neo platonic movements and

2006
02:01:19.319 --> 02:01:23.439
<v Speaker 2>presuppositions is more than just I mean, there's internal problems

2007
02:01:23.479 --> 02:01:26.960
<v Speaker 2>with those positions to begin with. For example, when the

2008
02:01:27.079 --> 02:01:29.840
<v Speaker 2>last time doctor Khalil came on here or some of

2009
02:01:29.920 --> 02:01:35.279
<v Speaker 2>his students, they were actually arguing that it's not neoplatonism,

2010
02:01:35.399 --> 02:01:38.479
<v Speaker 2>it's actually from the Quran. And I'm like, so the

2011
02:01:38.560 --> 02:01:42.159
<v Speaker 2>Kuran didn't get this from the positions that were centuries

2012
02:01:42.199 --> 02:01:45.399
<v Speaker 2>prior to the Qoran, no, I mean, which I think

2013
02:01:45.479 --> 02:01:48.000
<v Speaker 2>is kind of retarded. So I just ask your friend

2014
02:01:48.000 --> 02:01:50.239
<v Speaker 2>if he believes, like, in other words, it's cribbed, like

2015
02:01:50.800 --> 02:01:54.560
<v Speaker 2>most of Islam is cribbed. And so whether it's Islam,

2016
02:01:54.640 --> 02:01:56.760
<v Speaker 2>it's whether it's they're cribbing from the Talmud or from

2017
02:01:56.840 --> 02:02:00.359
<v Speaker 2>Christianity or from Orthodoxy or with the Shiahs, they're cribbing

2018
02:02:00.399 --> 02:02:03.239
<v Speaker 2>from neoplatonism. And they'll even kind of admit this, But

2019
02:02:03.279 --> 02:02:05.800
<v Speaker 2>then when you ask them if it's borrowed from neoplatonism.

2020
02:02:05.840 --> 02:02:07.640
<v Speaker 2>They're like, no, it's from a lot, it's from the Quran.

2021
02:02:07.840 --> 02:02:10.640
<v Speaker 2>So it's like, how is it from Allah in the Quran?

2022
02:02:10.800 --> 02:02:13.439
<v Speaker 2>If it came from Plutina's centuries early, I.

2023
02:02:13.439 --> 02:02:15.880
<v Speaker 16>Think it could be similar to like a logo supermatico

2024
02:02:15.920 --> 02:02:17.840
<v Speaker 16>as sort of like semi perennialism thing.

2025
02:02:17.920 --> 02:02:20.039
<v Speaker 2>They didn't try to argue that maybe they maybe they

2026
02:02:20.079 --> 02:02:21.680
<v Speaker 2>could go that route, but no, they were actually just

2027
02:02:21.720 --> 02:02:23.640
<v Speaker 2>saying that, no, it's not actually from Plato.

2028
02:02:23.680 --> 02:02:27.840
<v Speaker 5>And it's like they say it's original. Yeah, wow, I

2029
02:02:27.920 --> 02:02:29.319
<v Speaker 5>didn't know that is that? I thought too.

2030
02:02:29.319 --> 02:02:32.199
<v Speaker 2>They don't say that, well maybe this was just like

2031
02:02:32.920 --> 02:02:36.479
<v Speaker 2>misinformed students of his or something. I don't know, but right,

2032
02:02:36.920 --> 02:02:39.680
<v Speaker 2>but I mean what I'm but still like the point

2033
02:02:39.720 --> 02:02:42.600
<v Speaker 2>would still stand, like even if if that's the case,

2034
02:02:42.760 --> 02:02:46.000
<v Speaker 2>then was that revelation from a law prior to the Quran?

2035
02:02:46.119 --> 02:02:48.680
<v Speaker 2>And I mean, does did those that I'll get corrupted

2036
02:02:48.720 --> 02:02:50.279
<v Speaker 2>to all his words get corupted? I thought all his

2037
02:02:50.359 --> 02:02:51.319
<v Speaker 2>words can't get corrupted.

2038
02:02:52.840 --> 02:02:54.600
<v Speaker 16>They don't believe that actually, Like they say that the

2039
02:02:54.680 --> 02:02:57.399
<v Speaker 16>Qur'an in some places has been like burned or taken

2040
02:02:57.439 --> 02:02:58.239
<v Speaker 16>out or at itude.

2041
02:02:59.359 --> 02:03:01.439
<v Speaker 2>Right, I understand that the sis will admit that. But

2042
02:03:01.760 --> 02:03:04.079
<v Speaker 2>what I'm trying to say is, like, then at what

2043
02:03:04.279 --> 02:03:06.560
<v Speaker 2>point is the is it the true revelation? They're going

2044
02:03:06.640 --> 02:03:07.960
<v Speaker 2>to say it's the eternal tablet?

2045
02:03:08.079 --> 02:03:11.600
<v Speaker 5>Right, Yeah, so there's like no consistent Okay.

2046
02:03:11.399 --> 02:03:13.479
<v Speaker 2>So but how do I know where's the access to

2047
02:03:13.600 --> 02:03:15.439
<v Speaker 2>the tablet? Where does that come from? Where do we

2048
02:03:15.479 --> 02:03:22.439
<v Speaker 2>get that? How do I know what the infallible imams are?

2049
02:03:22.560 --> 02:03:24.439
<v Speaker 2>And how am I supposed to know and follow them?

2050
02:03:25.600 --> 02:03:27.399
<v Speaker 2>It's just it's just moving the problem, like from one

2051
02:03:27.479 --> 02:03:29.600
<v Speaker 2>created thing to another created thing to another created thing.

2052
02:03:29.680 --> 02:03:32.680
<v Speaker 2>It's like the just kicking the can down the road

2053
02:03:32.680 --> 02:03:37.720
<v Speaker 2>in terms of a piscocology. All right, anyway, good questions. Yeah,

2054
02:03:37.720 --> 02:03:40.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm not super well read on the she is, but.

2055
02:03:42.039 --> 02:03:42.279
<v Speaker 13>I'm not.

2056
02:03:44.039 --> 02:03:46.439
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you could critique neo Platonism on just the

2057
02:03:46.520 --> 02:03:49.600
<v Speaker 2>way that we would critique Platonism, like why is there

2058
02:03:50.000 --> 02:03:52.399
<v Speaker 2>a like what is the emanation from the one? And

2059
02:03:52.600 --> 02:03:55.800
<v Speaker 2>like why is it of a lesser diminished status? And

2060
02:03:56.000 --> 02:04:01.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, like Platonism, we like how do we know

2061
02:04:01.760 --> 02:04:04.920
<v Speaker 2>that the one is ontologically superior to the many? That's

2062
02:04:04.960 --> 02:04:08.600
<v Speaker 2>a hellenic presupposition that is just stated and asserted how

2063
02:04:08.600 --> 02:04:10.319
<v Speaker 2>do we know that that's the case because the system

2064
02:04:10.439 --> 02:04:13.319
<v Speaker 2>rests on these kinds of metaphysic assumptions which are all

2065
02:04:13.359 --> 02:04:15.399
<v Speaker 2>from Hellenism. And then they'll just turn around and be like,

2066
02:04:15.439 --> 02:04:18.479
<v Speaker 2>now it's not from Hellenism, it's from the Coron. So

2067
02:04:18.680 --> 02:04:21.760
<v Speaker 2>I just don't know how you go about something like that.

2068
02:04:21.960 --> 02:04:25.720
<v Speaker 2>But aside from all these metaphysical disputes, like, did anybody

2069
02:04:25.840 --> 02:04:28.840
<v Speaker 2>just watch the doctor Khalil sam Chumun debate, I mean,

2070
02:04:29.079 --> 02:04:44.079
<v Speaker 2>Sam Schimun demolished him. So, X Trip, what's up? What's up?

2071
02:04:44.119 --> 02:04:44.239
<v Speaker 4>Man?

2072
02:04:44.479 --> 02:04:50.359
<v Speaker 2>X Trip? I'm mute, Hey, can you hear me?

2073
02:04:51.319 --> 02:04:54.439
<v Speaker 1>M I just got a quick question for you.

2074
02:04:56.359 --> 02:04:59.279
<v Speaker 24>What do you think of the position that the modern

2075
02:04:59.399 --> 02:05:01.960
<v Speaker 24>Jews of today are the descendants of.

2076
02:05:04.279 --> 02:05:11.159
<v Speaker 2>That's crazy lunacy who believes that Jews are the decid

2077
02:05:12.640 --> 02:05:14.359
<v Speaker 2>What right are.

2078
02:05:14.279 --> 02:05:16.840
<v Speaker 24>You familiar with the dustin emos in his works?

2079
02:05:19.439 --> 02:05:21.640
<v Speaker 2>Ro I'm orthodox? Why am I going to be following

2080
02:05:21.720 --> 02:05:25.479
<v Speaker 2>some quack weirdo Protestant guy? Like, is this like Christian

2081
02:05:25.520 --> 02:05:29.600
<v Speaker 2>identity stuff? Is that what that is? I got sort

2082
02:05:29.640 --> 02:05:31.640
<v Speaker 2>of all right, that stuff's all retarded. Man, Come on,

2083
02:05:31.960 --> 02:05:34.239
<v Speaker 2>that's that's not even worth That's not even worth any place,

2084
02:05:34.319 --> 02:05:43.840
<v Speaker 2>don puppet. I'm debating with a puppet.

2085
02:05:48.520 --> 02:05:52.119
<v Speaker 1>We love the Jews, unbelievable Jews not so much. We

2086
02:05:52.199 --> 02:05:54.880
<v Speaker 1>don't love the jay I'm at Protestant.

2087
02:05:55.199 --> 02:05:55.640
<v Speaker 2>Can you hear me?

2088
02:05:55.680 --> 02:05:56.000
<v Speaker 1>All right?

2089
02:05:57.960 --> 02:06:00.640
<v Speaker 9>I'm an attorney as well. My other attorney buddy and

2090
02:06:00.680 --> 02:06:02.439
<v Speaker 9>I are listening to you right now, and we've been

2091
02:06:02.479 --> 02:06:04.880
<v Speaker 9>listening to you for a few weeks now. He said

2092
02:06:04.920 --> 02:06:09.760
<v Speaker 9>something fifteen minutes ago about the judiciary and kind of

2093
02:06:09.800 --> 02:06:14.079
<v Speaker 9>compared the ultimate authority of the Church having the judiciary

2094
02:06:15.000 --> 02:06:17.159
<v Speaker 9>like care, comparing it to the Supreme Court of having

2095
02:06:17.199 --> 02:06:18.880
<v Speaker 9>like a final say this to the authority of what.

2096
02:06:20.840 --> 02:06:23.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we had actually brought that analogy up earlier.

2097
02:06:23.760 --> 02:06:29.239
<v Speaker 9>We are wrestling with Apostolic succession, and we're listening to

2098
02:06:29.279 --> 02:06:32.159
<v Speaker 9>you a few other people. How do you deal with

2099
02:06:32.640 --> 02:06:36.640
<v Speaker 9>the objections that that's too restrictive, that that presents some

2100
02:06:36.840 --> 02:06:40.239
<v Speaker 9>issues that like originalism would present where there's not this golden.

2101
02:06:39.960 --> 02:06:42.800
<v Speaker 5>Era where the Church was unified or that like on

2102
02:06:42.880 --> 02:06:43.199
<v Speaker 5>the Day of.

2103
02:06:43.239 --> 02:06:46.680
<v Speaker 9>Pentecost, they were all unified in spirit, but they maybe

2104
02:06:47.000 --> 02:06:49.600
<v Speaker 9>not necessarily had gone through all these problems of heresy

2105
02:06:49.680 --> 02:06:52.439
<v Speaker 9>that encounters later on down the line. And to the

2106
02:06:52.479 --> 02:06:56.119
<v Speaker 9>second point of that as you could respond the critique

2107
02:06:56.159 --> 02:06:58.239
<v Speaker 9>of Protestanism of just us. You know, I can go

2108
02:06:58.359 --> 02:07:00.039
<v Speaker 9>with some buddies and get my Bible and say this

2109
02:07:00.199 --> 02:07:03.439
<v Speaker 9>is what it means. How do you respond, how that's

2110
02:07:03.439 --> 02:07:07.319
<v Speaker 9>any different other than the time period for those councils

2111
02:07:07.560 --> 02:07:10.279
<v Speaker 9>who also would kind of go in before the Bible

2112
02:07:10.399 --> 02:07:11.880
<v Speaker 9>or with some of these scripts or some of these

2113
02:07:11.960 --> 02:07:15.479
<v Speaker 9>people that knew Jesus and iron things out. Are they

2114
02:07:15.600 --> 02:07:18.479
<v Speaker 9>kind of doing the same thing. What separates us now

2115
02:07:18.600 --> 02:07:19.319
<v Speaker 9>from what they did?

2116
02:07:19.920 --> 02:07:20.039
<v Speaker 15>Right?

2117
02:07:20.079 --> 02:07:22.319
<v Speaker 2>Well, if you listen to answer the second part, I

2118
02:07:22.439 --> 02:07:26.359
<v Speaker 2>said specifically that it's a Roman Catholic objection that you

2119
02:07:26.479 --> 02:07:29.199
<v Speaker 2>hear all the time to Protestants that I don't think

2120
02:07:29.439 --> 02:07:33.079
<v Speaker 2>is a very good argument to say that you guys

2121
02:07:33.119 --> 02:07:34.880
<v Speaker 2>are just reading your Bible on your own, and you

2122
02:07:35.000 --> 02:07:37.279
<v Speaker 2>all are coming to your own interpretations, and so therefore

2123
02:07:37.359 --> 02:07:40.279
<v Speaker 2>the papacy's necessary. That's like ninety five percent of the

2124
02:07:40.319 --> 02:07:44.079
<v Speaker 2>pop Catholic car salesman apologists. I specifically said, that is

2125
02:07:44.199 --> 02:07:47.239
<v Speaker 2>not a good argument, because everybody's in the same boat.

2126
02:07:47.279 --> 02:07:49.079
<v Speaker 2>We're all going to be reading the Bible and trying

2127
02:07:49.119 --> 02:07:50.560
<v Speaker 2>to figure out what it means. We're all going to

2128
02:07:50.600 --> 02:07:54.439
<v Speaker 2>be relying on our interpretation that's unavoidable. But where we

2129
02:07:54.640 --> 02:07:58.039
<v Speaker 2>differ between Catholic protests and Orthodox is the means that

2130
02:07:58.199 --> 02:08:00.560
<v Speaker 2>we're going to be using or relying on one to

2131
02:08:01.520 --> 02:08:04.960
<v Speaker 2>interpret and get that meaning that data. For the Orthodox,

2132
02:08:05.159 --> 02:08:08.439
<v Speaker 2>it's a collection of a lot of different things that

2133
02:08:08.600 --> 02:08:10.840
<v Speaker 2>we don't pick one thing out like, oh, I just

2134
02:08:10.920 --> 02:08:13.720
<v Speaker 2>follow this church father, I just follow this guy, I

2135
02:08:13.880 --> 02:08:16.960
<v Speaker 2>just followed this book. For us, all these different things,

2136
02:08:17.000 --> 02:08:20.039
<v Speaker 2>whether it's participation in the liturgy, whether it's reading church

2137
02:08:20.119 --> 02:08:22.560
<v Speaker 2>history and church fathers, reading the councils, reading the Bible,

2138
02:08:22.680 --> 02:08:24.319
<v Speaker 2>lies of the Saints, all those things are going to

2139
02:08:24.359 --> 02:08:28.479
<v Speaker 2>be combined to be part of our ethos for where

2140
02:08:28.560 --> 02:08:31.079
<v Speaker 2>we get the data and the meaning and the interpretation.

2141
02:08:31.960 --> 02:08:35.520
<v Speaker 2>If you're a Roman Catholic, ultimately your ultimate epistemic principle

2142
02:08:35.640 --> 02:08:40.079
<v Speaker 2>is not the Bible. It's not your private you know, experience.

2143
02:08:40.199 --> 02:08:43.479
<v Speaker 2>It's what the popes have determined. And then you got

2144
02:08:43.600 --> 02:08:47.159
<v Speaker 2>to like grapple with the papal documents and the councils

2145
02:08:47.439 --> 02:08:49.880
<v Speaker 2>and where the popes confirm the councils. So that's the

2146
02:08:49.960 --> 02:08:53.279
<v Speaker 2>ultimate epistemic principle for the Roman Catholic. For the Protestant,

2147
02:08:53.640 --> 02:08:55.920
<v Speaker 2>it's ultimately you and the Bible. I'm not saying that

2148
02:08:56.000 --> 02:08:59.800
<v Speaker 2>Protestants don't like church history or councils or whatever, but ultimately,

2149
02:08:59.880 --> 02:09:03.680
<v Speaker 2>the the final authority of soul scripture is the only

2150
02:09:03.720 --> 02:09:07.520
<v Speaker 2>infallible guide for the Church is the Protestant Canada Scriptures.

2151
02:09:07.600 --> 02:09:12.760
<v Speaker 2>So that's the epistemic existential dilemma that everyone's in, and

2152
02:09:13.000 --> 02:09:15.720
<v Speaker 2>everybody is going to say and believe, well, I'm relying

2153
02:09:15.960 --> 02:09:19.319
<v Speaker 2>ultimately on the Holy Spirit. Where we differ is the means.

2154
02:09:19.479 --> 02:09:22.359
<v Speaker 2>The Orthodox is going to argue that the means to

2155
02:09:22.479 --> 02:09:25.199
<v Speaker 2>determine the scriptures and the divine what divine revelation is

2156
02:09:25.319 --> 02:09:27.640
<v Speaker 2>is going to be that holistic stuff that I that

2157
02:09:27.760 --> 02:09:30.159
<v Speaker 2>I listed. For the Roman Catholic, it's going to be

2158
02:09:30.560 --> 02:09:33.199
<v Speaker 2>the decisions of the popes. For the Protestant, it's going

2159
02:09:33.279 --> 02:09:35.800
<v Speaker 2>to be ultimately you and the Bible. So I would

2160
02:09:35.880 --> 02:09:40.680
<v Speaker 2>argue that the Church in its history disproves both the

2161
02:09:40.800 --> 02:09:45.039
<v Speaker 2>papal and the Protestant approach to the means of knowing revelation.

2162
02:09:45.479 --> 02:09:48.520
<v Speaker 2>That Church history in the first thousand years demonstrates a

2163
02:09:48.640 --> 02:09:53.439
<v Speaker 2>consistent principle of the Church using the Church fathers, the

2164
02:09:53.479 --> 02:09:56.600
<v Speaker 2>scriptures and deciding what books go into the scriptures, and

2165
02:09:57.119 --> 02:09:59.960
<v Speaker 2>apisode of succession was there before the Bible was there.

2166
02:10:00.520 --> 02:10:02.520
<v Speaker 2>That's why Paul says the Church of the pilarm ground

2167
02:10:02.520 --> 02:10:05.479
<v Speaker 2>of truth, not the written text. The church produced the

2168
02:10:05.560 --> 02:10:09.760
<v Speaker 2>written text, and so appostolic succession is a presupposition for

2169
02:10:10.279 --> 02:10:13.880
<v Speaker 2>having a collection of books known as the Canon. Secondly,

2170
02:10:13.960 --> 02:10:17.600
<v Speaker 2>I would say that it's just an analogy to the

2171
02:10:18.640 --> 02:10:23.159
<v Speaker 2>Supreme Court to illustrate the principle of normative authority. So

2172
02:10:23.239 --> 02:10:27.880
<v Speaker 2>in philosophy we make a distinction between the individual existential

2173
02:10:28.000 --> 02:10:31.279
<v Speaker 2>dilemma of how do I know which what's the true church.

2174
02:10:31.880 --> 02:10:34.720
<v Speaker 2>It's a separate but kind of related question of what's

2175
02:10:34.720 --> 02:10:37.880
<v Speaker 2>called normative authority in ethics, which is the question of

2176
02:10:38.079 --> 02:10:41.439
<v Speaker 2>is there any body of people that has the authority

2177
02:10:41.560 --> 02:10:45.079
<v Speaker 2>to bind people to an interpretation or to bind consciences,

2178
02:10:45.199 --> 02:10:48.600
<v Speaker 2>and by extension, to excommunicate people, et cetera. So the

2179
02:10:48.720 --> 02:10:52.199
<v Speaker 2>Orthodox argument is that, yes, you do also need It's

2180
02:10:52.279 --> 02:10:54.840
<v Speaker 2>not that the Protestant can't read the Bible and figure

2181
02:10:54.880 --> 02:10:57.279
<v Speaker 2>out things and see, oh, yes, the Bible teaches Jesus

2182
02:10:57.640 --> 02:11:00.199
<v Speaker 2>is divine, he's the son of God, he does the

2183
02:11:00.239 --> 02:11:02.960
<v Speaker 2>cross right protests most of the time get all that correct.

2184
02:11:03.560 --> 02:11:08.840
<v Speaker 2>So it's not necessarily an individual epistemology question. It could be,

2185
02:11:09.560 --> 02:11:13.760
<v Speaker 2>but usually what is that root here is a question

2186
02:11:13.960 --> 02:11:17.680
<v Speaker 2>of did Jesus provide the Church, any historical body of

2187
02:11:17.760 --> 02:11:21.000
<v Speaker 2>people with authority to bind consciences? And that the reason

2188
02:11:21.079 --> 02:11:24.439
<v Speaker 2>I word it that way is that's what directly contrasts

2189
02:11:24.600 --> 02:11:28.880
<v Speaker 2>to the classical Reformation doctrine of freedom of conscience, freedom

2190
02:11:28.960 --> 02:11:33.079
<v Speaker 2>private interpretation. No authorities can bind you to your conscience.

2191
02:11:33.359 --> 02:11:35.840
<v Speaker 2>So do you see how it's two different questions between

2192
02:11:36.279 --> 02:11:43.720
<v Speaker 2>individual existential certitude versus the historical question of a public

2193
02:11:43.880 --> 02:11:46.199
<v Speaker 2>body of people like the Supreme Court, who can bind

2194
02:11:46.239 --> 02:11:47.239
<v Speaker 2>people to an interpretation?

2195
02:11:49.640 --> 02:11:54.039
<v Speaker 9>Yes, but how would you respond to the idea that

2196
02:11:54.159 --> 02:11:57.039
<v Speaker 9>those that it would be a cop out for someone

2197
02:11:57.039 --> 02:12:00.640
<v Speaker 9>who's used the Orthodox to say, okay, so the person

2198
02:12:00.720 --> 02:12:04.319
<v Speaker 9>who was next to Jesus on the cross, he might

2199
02:12:04.399 --> 02:12:06.760
<v Speaker 9>not have identified as he's in Orthodox, but he was

2200
02:12:06.840 --> 02:12:08.960
<v Speaker 9>just an a noormative path sort of all drains lead

2201
02:12:09.000 --> 02:12:10.920
<v Speaker 9>to the ocean. Or like what about the coal miner

2202
02:12:11.439 --> 02:12:13.720
<v Speaker 9>in early America who has an encounter with the Holy

2203
02:12:13.800 --> 02:12:17.399
<v Speaker 9>Spirit and God starts this movement in him, maybe in

2204
02:12:17.479 --> 02:12:21.199
<v Speaker 9>his family, but he never even hears about the Orthodox Church?

2205
02:12:21.560 --> 02:12:25.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, Our position is that the normative way that people

2206
02:12:25.439 --> 02:12:27.840
<v Speaker 2>are joined to the mystical Body of Christ, which we

2207
02:12:27.960 --> 02:12:31.399
<v Speaker 2>think is the Orthodox Church, is through baptism and catechisis

2208
02:12:32.239 --> 02:12:34.600
<v Speaker 2>now God has the means by which he can join

2209
02:12:34.640 --> 02:12:38.640
<v Speaker 2>people to that body extra normatively and by his own power.

2210
02:12:38.760 --> 02:12:40.520
<v Speaker 2>So the thief on the cross doesn't have to hear

2211
02:12:40.600 --> 02:12:43.159
<v Speaker 2>the whole message of you know, I mean he didn't

2212
02:12:43.159 --> 02:12:46.039
<v Speaker 2>even he wasn't even alive yet four palls Epistles, a

2213
02:12:46.039 --> 02:12:49.039
<v Speaker 2>book of revelation, right, So it's not the amount of

2214
02:12:49.199 --> 02:12:52.680
<v Speaker 2>knowledge again, it's the attitude of humility. And we believe

2215
02:12:52.760 --> 02:12:55.720
<v Speaker 2>as Orthodox that he actually was joined to the Orthodox Church.

2216
02:12:56.000 --> 02:12:59.119
<v Speaker 2>We don't believe that there's this like later period in

2217
02:12:59.199 --> 02:13:01.760
<v Speaker 2>the seven hundred where there's this entity that pops up

2218
02:13:01.800 --> 02:13:04.399
<v Speaker 2>called the Orthodox Church. We believe and if you read

2219
02:13:04.439 --> 02:13:07.079
<v Speaker 2>the first second, third century Church Fathers, they teach the

2220
02:13:07.159 --> 02:13:10.119
<v Speaker 2>same things for the most part, on the big issues

2221
02:13:10.680 --> 02:13:13.840
<v Speaker 2>that the Church fathers after Nicia teach. So we don't

2222
02:13:13.880 --> 02:13:16.800
<v Speaker 2>believe that there was some vast change, you know, after

2223
02:13:16.880 --> 02:13:19.520
<v Speaker 2>the Council of Nicea as opposed to the pre nicing fathers,

2224
02:13:19.600 --> 02:13:22.720
<v Speaker 2>or that there was some vast change by the prenessing

2225
02:13:22.760 --> 02:13:25.239
<v Speaker 2>Fathers over the teachings of the Apostles. We think they're

2226
02:13:25.239 --> 02:13:27.640
<v Speaker 2>all in harmony. And you can read the post Apostolic

2227
02:13:27.680 --> 02:13:32.319
<v Speaker 2>fathers to see that, you can read Ignacious, you know, Polycarp, Clement,

2228
02:13:32.520 --> 02:13:35.600
<v Speaker 2>all of those things will show you the continuity with

2229
02:13:35.760 --> 02:13:38.239
<v Speaker 2>the teachings of the Apostles. So I don't see that

2230
02:13:38.279 --> 02:13:43.720
<v Speaker 2>would be a cop out. Yeah, that was a great question.

2231
02:13:43.960 --> 02:13:46.039
<v Speaker 2>I feel free to call in anytime now, guys. I've

2232
02:13:46.079 --> 02:13:49.199
<v Speaker 2>got not a whole lot of time left because I

2233
02:13:49.319 --> 02:13:53.119
<v Speaker 2>have a interview a big name person that we're going

2234
02:13:53.159 --> 02:13:55.520
<v Speaker 2>to interview here in a little bit. I don't I

2235
02:13:55.600 --> 02:13:57.760
<v Speaker 2>think we'll just prerecord it. I don't think it'll be live,

2236
02:13:58.199 --> 02:14:00.000
<v Speaker 2>but it'll probably go up in the next few days.

2237
02:14:00.319 --> 02:14:05.159
<v Speaker 2>You'll see who that is important person who left liberalism,

2238
02:14:05.399 --> 02:14:09.680
<v Speaker 2>and so we're gonna talk to her about what prompted

2239
02:14:09.720 --> 02:14:12.600
<v Speaker 2>her to move in that direction, what convinced her of

2240
02:14:13.640 --> 02:14:17.399
<v Speaker 2>the problems of the left, and why she's moved more

2241
02:14:17.439 --> 02:14:19.600
<v Speaker 2>in our direction to all the way where we are.

2242
02:14:19.720 --> 02:14:23.760
<v Speaker 2>But she's left the death cult of the left, the

2243
02:14:23.880 --> 02:14:26.359
<v Speaker 2>left death cult, which is good news. So I'll be

2244
02:14:26.600 --> 02:14:27.880
<v Speaker 2>leaving her in a minute to talk to her. I

2245
02:14:27.920 --> 02:14:31.039
<v Speaker 2>wan to remind you guys too that we have a

2246
02:14:31.159 --> 02:14:34.720
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2247
02:14:34.840 --> 02:14:37.520
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2248
02:14:37.600 --> 02:14:39.760
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2249
02:14:39.960 --> 02:14:42.000
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2250
02:14:42.039 --> 02:14:45.159
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2251
02:14:45.199 --> 02:14:48.439
<v Speaker 2>great thing if you want to experiment with. You don't

2252
02:14:48.479 --> 02:14:51.439
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2253
02:14:51.479 --> 02:14:54.000
<v Speaker 2>also use J y forty to just get forty percent

2254
02:14:54.000 --> 02:14:55.640
<v Speaker 2>off any of the products. So if you want to

2255
02:14:55.680 --> 02:14:58.199
<v Speaker 2>test out of that performance stack JAY four zero to

2256
02:14:58.239 --> 02:15:01.279
<v Speaker 2>get forty percent off just a base test run there.

2257
02:15:01.680 --> 02:15:03.680
<v Speaker 2>But if you use a promo cod J forty four Life,

2258
02:15:04.199 --> 02:15:06.000
<v Speaker 2>you can get it coming on the regular. You're gonna

2259
02:15:06.039 --> 02:15:08.640
<v Speaker 2>love it, especially the ton Catale especially the action to

2260
02:15:08.760 --> 02:15:11.239
<v Speaker 2>point oh chad mode is really intense, so go easy

2261
02:15:11.319 --> 02:15:13.880
<v Speaker 2>on it. It's definitely a great pre workout if you

2262
02:15:13.920 --> 02:15:16.399
<v Speaker 2>want to test it out. But my favorite, of course

2263
02:15:16.560 --> 02:15:19.039
<v Speaker 2>is ton Catalie. That's why I have so much energy

2264
02:15:19.079 --> 02:15:20.600
<v Speaker 2>to do so many streams all the time, and we

2265
02:15:20.720 --> 02:15:24.479
<v Speaker 2>still go into our workouts when we're not struggling with

2266
02:15:24.680 --> 02:15:29.239
<v Speaker 2>freaking stomach aids or whatever. I had for for several

2267
02:15:29.319 --> 02:15:33.720
<v Speaker 2>weeks or two weeks was a nightmare. Walmart welch one dollar.

2268
02:15:33.800 --> 02:15:37.600
<v Speaker 2>Have you heard of Steve Stefan's his Stephan? Then this

2269
02:15:37.680 --> 02:15:40.520
<v Speaker 2>makes me think of Stephan from setting out loud Stephan's

2270
02:15:40.560 --> 02:15:42.840
<v Speaker 2>history of the world, I have not. He's a normy

2271
02:15:42.920 --> 02:15:46.199
<v Speaker 2>science man. He asserts higher criticism as the true history

2272
02:15:46.239 --> 02:15:49.439
<v Speaker 2>of the Hebrews, very much like myth Vision. Well, I

2273
02:15:49.479 --> 02:15:51.520
<v Speaker 2>think you guys all saw that when we did our

2274
02:15:52.479 --> 02:15:56.000
<v Speaker 2>impromptu debate with Derek Mythvision. It didn't go very well.

2275
02:15:56.960 --> 02:15:59.359
<v Speaker 2>Ninety nine percent of the comments we're kind of laughing

2276
02:15:59.399 --> 02:16:01.199
<v Speaker 2>at him and you if you remember, he said he

2277
02:16:01.239 --> 02:16:04.720
<v Speaker 2>would he would be at million or whatever, he would

2278
02:16:04.760 --> 02:16:07.399
<v Speaker 2>have the biggest channel on this stuff by the end

2279
02:16:07.439 --> 02:16:10.119
<v Speaker 2>of the year, and his prophecy did not come true. MKG.

2280
02:16:10.279 --> 02:16:14.239
<v Speaker 2>Five dollars. Sorry, no, I'm more characters. To be specific.

2281
02:16:14.319 --> 02:16:18.680
<v Speaker 2>My question was what are the means by which they

2282
02:16:18.760 --> 02:16:22.199
<v Speaker 2>get the blessing from Isaac. The interpretation that makes sense

2283
02:16:22.239 --> 02:16:24.800
<v Speaker 2>to me was that he was breaking his hip or

2284
02:16:24.840 --> 02:16:29.319
<v Speaker 2>the punishment later down the line. I'm not sure I'd

2285
02:16:29.359 --> 02:16:31.840
<v Speaker 2>have to think about that. MKG. I appreciate the question.

2286
02:16:32.360 --> 02:16:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Maybe remind me in the chat next time, I'll have

2287
02:16:35.600 --> 02:16:37.799
<v Speaker 2>to go and think about I've got a bunch of

2288
02:16:37.840 --> 02:16:39.719
<v Speaker 2>Genesis commentaries. I'll have to think about that. I'm not

2289
02:16:39.760 --> 02:16:42.440
<v Speaker 2>sure Walmart weigh ninety six one dollar? All right? That

2290
02:16:42.600 --> 02:16:45.879
<v Speaker 2>was the normy science man question, Dave two fifty? Can

2291
02:16:45.959 --> 02:16:48.479
<v Speaker 2>you recommend a book? Can I recommend a book? Have

2292
02:16:48.639 --> 02:16:52.159
<v Speaker 2>you read Rulers of the Evil Supper Saucy?

2293
02:16:53.799 --> 02:16:53.840
<v Speaker 11>No?

2294
02:16:54.079 --> 02:16:56.879
<v Speaker 2>Never heard of it, man, I highly recommend it. It's

2295
02:16:56.879 --> 02:17:00.879
<v Speaker 2>out of print. It sells for three hundred to two thousands. Okay,

2296
02:17:02.159 --> 02:17:10.440
<v Speaker 2>what's it about Rulers of the Evil Tupper Saucy? What's

2297
02:17:10.479 --> 02:17:10.799
<v Speaker 2>it about?

2298
02:17:10.840 --> 02:17:11.040
<v Speaker 1>Dude?

2299
02:17:11.079 --> 02:17:14.399
<v Speaker 2>Sounds crazy? Jony h five dollars twenty five cents. Thank

2300
02:17:14.440 --> 02:17:14.879
<v Speaker 2>you for your work.

2301
02:17:14.959 --> 02:17:15.120
<v Speaker 1>Jay.

2302
02:17:15.159 --> 02:17:17.680
<v Speaker 2>What do you think of the massive influx of Islam

2303
02:17:17.760 --> 02:17:21.000
<v Speaker 2>into Europe? Well, I've done many talks on that as

2304
02:17:21.079 --> 02:17:25.559
<v Speaker 2>an older Fabian socialist plan to bring in Islam all

2305
02:17:25.639 --> 02:17:27.799
<v Speaker 2>throughout Europe. If you look up all the books that

2306
02:17:27.840 --> 02:17:31.799
<v Speaker 2>I did on the Milliner Fabian works, they planned one

2307
02:17:31.840 --> 02:17:35.000
<v Speaker 2>hundred years ago Vampire f five dollars. They openly said

2308
02:17:35.000 --> 02:17:37.840
<v Speaker 2>they wanted to do that one hundred years ago. I

2309
02:17:37.920 --> 02:17:40.760
<v Speaker 2>recall you was talking about a scenario where old parties

2310
02:17:42.559 --> 02:17:45.639
<v Speaker 2>would fall out of favor, and then a technocrat would

2311
02:17:45.680 --> 02:17:50.360
<v Speaker 2>run and he would be elected and turn out to

2312
02:17:50.479 --> 02:17:55.120
<v Speaker 2>be a pro surveillance state. Old parties have fallen of

2313
02:17:55.200 --> 02:18:01.079
<v Speaker 2>favor and a technocrat would run. Do you remember the

2314
02:18:01.200 --> 02:18:03.079
<v Speaker 2>video or the book? I'm sorry, I don't remember what

2315
02:18:03.120 --> 02:18:07.719
<v Speaker 2>you're talking about. Old party? Do you mean old political

2316
02:18:07.760 --> 02:18:12.120
<v Speaker 2>parties follow out of favor, a technocrat runs and he's elected,

2317
02:18:12.360 --> 02:18:16.639
<v Speaker 2>and he brings about a surveillance state. I'm not sure.

2318
02:18:20.440 --> 02:18:22.200
<v Speaker 2>I can't think of any books I read like a

2319
02:18:22.319 --> 02:18:25.040
<v Speaker 2>fiction book, a sci fi dystopian book. I can't think

2320
02:18:25.079 --> 02:18:29.840
<v Speaker 2>of anywhere there's any scenario like that. But maybe you

2321
02:18:29.920 --> 02:18:32.200
<v Speaker 2>don't mean a sci fi as maybe a Philip K. Dickbook.

2322
02:18:32.239 --> 02:18:33.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't. I don't know. By the way, we're I

2323
02:18:33.680 --> 02:18:36.479
<v Speaker 2>think we're going to do our next fiction book. I

2324
02:18:36.559 --> 02:18:39.040
<v Speaker 2>think I'm gonna do Ubic by pkd that'll be fun.

2325
02:18:39.639 --> 02:18:42.959
<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty sure Ubik predicted the Internet, right. I haven't

2326
02:18:43.000 --> 02:18:45.040
<v Speaker 2>read it so, but I've heard that, so we'll check

2327
02:18:45.079 --> 02:18:47.079
<v Speaker 2>that out. Andy Mont has three dollars? What's up to day?

2328
02:18:47.079 --> 02:18:51.000
<v Speaker 2>Are there any books that disprove theistic evolution? I mean,

2329
02:18:51.040 --> 02:18:54.079
<v Speaker 2>the most famous is Father Siff from Roses Genesis Creation.

2330
02:18:54.200 --> 02:18:55.959
<v Speaker 2>Really man, guys, remember too that if you go to

2331
02:18:56.000 --> 02:18:58.600
<v Speaker 2>the Jason Alis's shop you can get signed copies of

2332
02:18:58.760 --> 02:19:01.319
<v Speaker 2>esoteric Hollywood and it's going to be a great weird

2333
02:19:01.440 --> 02:19:03.959
<v Speaker 2>Christmas gift if you want to give your relatives and

2334
02:19:03.959 --> 02:19:06.000
<v Speaker 2>your normy relatives to wake them up through movies a

2335
02:19:06.079 --> 02:19:09.280
<v Speaker 2>weird Christmas present. Essotery Hollywood one too. They're all signed

2336
02:19:09.280 --> 02:19:15.120
<v Speaker 2>copies at Jason Alysi's in the shop. I got a

2337
02:19:15.120 --> 02:19:17.079
<v Speaker 2>little bit of time. Let's say if we've got one

2338
02:19:17.120 --> 02:19:20.159
<v Speaker 2>more question here, last question before I have to go

2339
02:19:20.280 --> 02:19:24.000
<v Speaker 2>to this interview. We got like thirteen people. That's crazy.

2340
02:19:27.799 --> 02:19:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Next in line is Dan. What's up? Dan?

2341
02:19:38.239 --> 02:19:42.840
<v Speaker 27>Hey there, Yeah, I just gotta I got a question

2342
02:19:42.920 --> 02:19:44.479
<v Speaker 27>for you. It's not so much at debate. You said

2343
02:19:44.520 --> 02:19:47.520
<v Speaker 27>earlier in the chat that you'd be willing to answer questions.

2344
02:19:47.600 --> 02:19:49.079
<v Speaker 27>That's still true you look at your debate.

2345
02:19:50.239 --> 02:19:50.520
<v Speaker 9>Okay.

2346
02:19:50.920 --> 02:19:53.760
<v Speaker 27>I was listening to a lecturer last night that John

2347
02:19:53.840 --> 02:19:57.719
<v Speaker 27>Lennox did at the Stanford School of Medicine that was

2348
02:19:57.840 --> 02:19:58.120
<v Speaker 27>kind of.

2349
02:19:58.120 --> 02:19:59.639
<v Speaker 1>About suffering, and.

2350
02:20:01.200 --> 02:20:03.120
<v Speaker 27>You could imagine that they probably they have to deal

2351
02:20:03.200 --> 02:20:05.200
<v Speaker 27>with a lot of crazy things like kids with cancer

2352
02:20:05.239 --> 02:20:07.600
<v Speaker 27>and stuff like that. Now I'm not gonna ask the

2353
02:20:07.680 --> 02:20:12.479
<v Speaker 27>question of why do suffering happening happen? But what it

2354
02:20:12.559 --> 02:20:17.159
<v Speaker 27>did make me think about is if we are just

2355
02:20:17.239 --> 02:20:19.600
<v Speaker 27>supposed to be thankful when things don't turn out our

2356
02:20:19.680 --> 02:20:24.440
<v Speaker 27>way with prayer, Like why do we pray if we're

2357
02:20:24.440 --> 02:20:26.280
<v Speaker 27>supposed to be thankful in the moments that things don't

2358
02:20:26.319 --> 02:20:28.360
<v Speaker 27>work out, because that's God's plan for us and he

2359
02:20:28.479 --> 02:20:31.319
<v Speaker 27>must want us to learn something. If we're just gonna

2360
02:20:31.360 --> 02:20:34.319
<v Speaker 27>get whatever we're gonna get, why do why would we pray?

2361
02:20:34.600 --> 02:20:37.879
<v Speaker 27>Because it almost to me it kind of comes down

2362
02:20:37.959 --> 02:20:41.239
<v Speaker 27>to like a free will question, like why pray if.

2363
02:20:41.120 --> 02:20:41.799
<v Speaker 1>We're just gonna get?

2364
02:20:41.959 --> 02:20:43.879
<v Speaker 2>No, we don't just get whatever we're going to get.

2365
02:20:44.319 --> 02:20:48.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, God has chosen to condescend to have a

2366
02:20:48.879 --> 02:20:52.000
<v Speaker 2>reciprocal relationship. So there's a really good paper that doctor

2367
02:20:52.079 --> 02:20:57.520
<v Speaker 2>Bradshaw wrote about reciprocity. I think it's his. Uh, it's

2368
02:20:57.559 --> 02:20:59.200
<v Speaker 2>in his book on the Energy is the one that's

2369
02:20:59.239 --> 02:21:02.040
<v Speaker 2>collectionable the say there's a section in the first essay

2370
02:21:02.079 --> 02:21:06.520
<v Speaker 2>that talks about God willing and wanting to have reciprocity.

2371
02:21:06.559 --> 02:21:08.200
<v Speaker 2>So it's not the case that we're just going to

2372
02:21:08.280 --> 02:21:12.360
<v Speaker 2>get whatever we get. We actually wants us to participate,

2373
02:21:12.399 --> 02:21:16.239
<v Speaker 2>and he's chosen to react to those that do pray

2374
02:21:16.479 --> 02:21:17.600
<v Speaker 2>and talk to him.

2375
02:21:18.920 --> 02:21:22.239
<v Speaker 27>So there's if we do pray, there's I guess potential

2376
02:21:22.360 --> 02:21:26.440
<v Speaker 27>that we could swim in one direction or another.

2377
02:21:26.520 --> 02:21:27.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean if you read the Book of Amos,

2378
02:21:27.959 --> 02:21:29.319
<v Speaker 2>so that's the whole point of the Book of Amos.

2379
02:21:29.399 --> 02:21:32.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much, sir.

2380
02:21:32.280 --> 02:21:37.399
<v Speaker 2>That's a great question. I thought there was a video

2381
02:21:37.600 --> 02:21:41.760
<v Speaker 2>recently about this that popped up that was gonna share it,

2382
02:21:41.799 --> 02:21:48.200
<v Speaker 2>but I don't see it anyway. Yeah, it's a look

2383
02:21:48.280 --> 02:21:50.479
<v Speaker 2>up Bradshaw and reciprocity. All right, Thank you guys. A

2384
02:21:50.520 --> 02:21:54.639
<v Speaker 2>lot of great discussions today overall, pretty good comments from everybody.

2385
02:21:55.680 --> 02:21:58.239
<v Speaker 2>You can support my work right here through the bitcoin

2386
02:21:58.440 --> 02:22:00.120
<v Speaker 2>while at QR code if you want to support with

2387
02:22:00.159 --> 02:22:04.239
<v Speaker 2>bitcoin right there. Thank you guys, and everybody, have a

2388
02:22:04.799 --> 02:22:09.799
<v Speaker 2>wonderful week. Remember that tomorrow, I think that tomorrow once, Yeah,

2389
02:22:09.799 --> 02:22:12.879
<v Speaker 2>we're going to be doing our British spies that made

2390
02:22:12.920 --> 02:22:17.200
<v Speaker 2>the modern world. This excellent book by French historian Galsmunier,

2391
02:22:17.680 --> 02:22:20.760
<v Speaker 2>and we'll be talking about all these famous British spies

2392
02:22:20.840 --> 02:22:23.399
<v Speaker 2>and Napoleonic ara spies which I didn't know anything about

2393
02:22:23.479 --> 02:22:26.440
<v Speaker 2>Napoleonic ara spies. These people were crazy, dude. They were

2394
02:22:26.479 --> 02:22:30.680
<v Speaker 2>doing some wild stuff. And it's crucial to understanding how

2395
02:22:30.719 --> 02:22:33.719
<v Speaker 2>we got the modern world. How did the Middle East

2396
02:22:33.799 --> 02:22:35.639
<v Speaker 2>come to be how it is. Well, you can't understand

2397
02:22:35.639 --> 02:22:38.479
<v Speaker 2>that without understanding the Napoleonic era and the British Empire.

2398
02:22:38.920 --> 02:22:42.479
<v Speaker 2>Napoleon wanted to take all of these areas from the

2399
02:22:42.520 --> 02:22:45.239
<v Speaker 2>British Empire. He didn't succeed in doing that, but this

2400
02:22:45.440 --> 02:22:47.440
<v Speaker 2>led to where we are today in the modern world,

2401
02:22:48.920 --> 02:22:52.479
<v Speaker 2>with the carving up of much of the Middle East

2402
02:22:52.680 --> 02:22:54.319
<v Speaker 2>and what's going on there today. So you have to

2403
02:22:54.440 --> 02:22:56.799
<v Speaker 2>understand this background. You need to know who these people are.

2404
02:22:56.840 --> 02:23:02.000
<v Speaker 2>They're very famous spies and operatives, and nobody talks about this.

2405
02:23:02.360 --> 02:23:05.680
<v Speaker 2>Nobody ever mentions these histories except over here on my channel.

2406
02:23:06.120 --> 02:23:08.040
<v Speaker 2>And hope you guys appreciate it. We'll be talking about

2407
02:23:08.040 --> 02:23:11.559
<v Speaker 2>that tomorrow in the afternoon as we cover Black Gold

2408
02:23:11.639 --> 02:23:15.360
<v Speaker 2>Spies and the T. E. Lawrence type material. Everybody, have

2409
02:23:15.399 --> 02:23:15.799
<v Speaker 2>a good night.