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Speaker 1: Up in that tree?

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Speaker 2: What you doing up there?

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Speaker 1: Why you scared?

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Speaker 3: Why you run it from the red bad You ran

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from Manto and from me man till the monkeys like

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their female monkeysmith the bananas between the trees hanging down

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upside down. That's a smile. Si, No tell a monkey

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what you doing to me? Till until a monkey till

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a mall hockey?

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm h what's it doing to me?

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Speaker 3: De aera?

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Speaker 1: You are in a cult. You are not in a church.

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You invent your own church.

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Speaker 4: Excuse me, you're you're just making an assumption at all

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the saints agree, they do, I.

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Speaker 2: Can go read them. You have no things. You're acholarly

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all that demon a boomer part.

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Speaker 4: Part A demon a boomer making an assumer that deement

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a boomer part excuse me? A demon a boomer part

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part you're acholar deement a boomer party a demon a

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boomer part excuse me? Ament a boomer part part A

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demon a boomer.

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Speaker 1: Making an assumption?

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Speaker 5: Are all the councils inspired in an errant?

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Speaker 2: The ecumenical stent ideas?

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Speaker 6: So there, ecumenical sentence are inspired in an errant?

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Speaker 1: Correct?

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Speaker 2: How do you know?

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Speaker 1: Because the oyster at least is another truth.

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Speaker 2: How do you know the oyster leads you to know

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the truth because they're in accord with all the other

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ecamenical doctrine, all the other things, the scriptures.

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Speaker 1: You're just making an assumption.

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Speaker 4: You're a scholarly a demon a Boomer part art. That

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demon he a Boomer dreaking the sum A demon in

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a Boomer card?

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Speaker 1: Excuse me?

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Speaker 2: Who's a demon in a Boomer card?

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Speaker 1: Part?

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Speaker 4: You're a collar demon.

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Speaker 2: In a Boomer card out day.

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Speaker 4: A demon in a Boomer card excuse me? A demon

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in a Boomer card part? A demon in a Boomer

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making a sum A demon in a Boomer card part,

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A demon in a.

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Speaker 1: Boomer card excuse me?

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Speaker 4: A demon in a.

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Speaker 1: Boomer card part.

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Speaker 2: A demon in a Boomer card out A demon.

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Speaker 1: In a Boomer card Excuse me?

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Speaker 2: Who's a demon in a Boomer card?

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Speaker 1: Art?

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Speaker 2: You're a god?

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Speaker 4: A demon a Boomer dreaking an assumption assumption, A demon

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in a Boomer card part?

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Speaker 2: So where do we get the Bible from? Did you

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even read the cannons?

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Speaker 1: There is only one charge. You are in din occult.

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Speaker 3: You're a governor team a boomer so mean I'm mute, dude.

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Is this your for someoney?

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Speaker 2: Interwebs?

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Speaker 7: I need a gender jew. Can't take it.

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Speaker 8: He's a little to your boys. On you, dude, you

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want plus one plus one equal free? It comes out

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the doll the tree.

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Speaker 3: Why do you pray the dead people that the traditions

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of the heretic?

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Speaker 2: Un your dude, is this you for so webs?

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Speaker 1: Shaggy?

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Speaker 7: I need a gender jew?

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Speaker 1: Can't take it.

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Speaker 3: He's a little to your boys, unmute dude.

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Speaker 9: Justification two?

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Speaker 2: Hey Jamie, could you make me an espresso? Welcome everybody.

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It's being a minute. It's been a minute since we

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did open debate. As you know, I can't take the

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low tier slow boys too much, so I gotta take breaks.

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I gotta pause, I gotta go do some other things.

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I got other things to do. But after about a month,

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three weeks, I started thinking I wouldn't mind having a

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stimulating intellectual discussion with someone who disagrees. Although that rarely happens,

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doesn't it rarely happen? What do you think? Low tier

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slow boys? But every now and then there are gems,

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rare gems who pop up and impress me. Who knows

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what we'll get today. But you guys know the way

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this works. Hopefully you know the format. You can call

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in through Twitter X. The extreme link is in the

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chat right there. You want to call in if you disagree,

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if you would like to present your best argument against

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whatever my positions are. I listed a bunch of theological things.

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If you want a debate something else. If it's in

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the tos, we're overcround on YouTube, so we gotta be careful.

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You can also bring up geopolitics. You can bring up moral,

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ethical issues, feminism, any of that kind of stuff. You

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want to bring that up. The topics listed are Islam, Catholicism, Protestism, Evangelicalism, Atheism,

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hebrew Roots, judaism, Arians, etc. Et cetera. Gnostics, Pagans. We've

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got some wotan pagan dudes. They want to come on

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a debate. I'm seeing that pop up a lot more.

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We did podcasts four or five years ago saying that

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pagan neo pagan stuff was gonna get really popular and

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be promoted everywhere by design. Here we are. I think

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that's fomented and fostered. So if you want to call

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in and make your pagan objections you can. That is

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on the table again. You call in through Twitter, you

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enter the X space, the Twitter space, and you hit

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request to speak. When you come on, you will be muted.

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You have to unmute yourself. Un mute dude. Is this

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your first time on the internet, JAIMI, I need a

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hair inet. You can also leave a super chat through

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stream Labs. Shout out to stream labs for sending me

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a hat and a hoodie because I was one of

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the top stream labbers apparently. And next I get a coat.

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So I'm decked out in swag, corporate swag, corporate Internet

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streaming swag. I guess that means I just beat all

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the Internet nerds on Twitch. I beat the gamer nerds.

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Is that what that means? I don't really know, but

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I won the super chat competition on stream Labs. I'm

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in the top diamond tier. But that's thanks to you guys.

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You guys actually bought me this amazing black corporate hat

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this stream Labs and the corporate hoodie that stream Labs. Also,

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I get a drinking glass that says stream Labs and

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a coat, so I have to advertise stream Labs. I

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guess now that I don't mind the hat.

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Speaker 1: Those so cool.

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Speaker 2: And I guess gamers wear hoodies, so that makes sense.

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So I could be a I could be a gamer

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for you, guys. I could be whatever you want me

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to be for you. Y'all want some more video game streams.

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We did some resident Evil streams, but they didn't get

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a whole lot of views on YouTube. But I don't

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know what you guys want. Like, everybody always wants me

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to play games that are you played Bloomer games? Okay,

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well I'm not playing freaking Fortnite. I ain't playing Minecraft.

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I don't put pixels sixteen bit pixels together. Okay, I

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had sixteen bit pixels when I was eleven years old

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on my Nintendo. Okay, I'm not going back to sixteen

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eight bit pixels of blocks and squares. Bro, I don't

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know what none of that even is. I'm not a

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Japanese man in nineteen eighty five building a video game.

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But all of the children's the churns they want to

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be Japanese coders in nineteen eighty five building blocked squared

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cows and sheep and pigs. It's not my life, bro.

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If I was gonna play a game, I might play

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Silent Hill two or something remake because in that game,

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you're fighting what the Illuminati, isn't it There's two games

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where you fought the Illuminati, Resident Evil four and Silent

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Hill too, right? Or is it Silent Hill one? What

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am I talking about? It's called video games. The giant

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half of the Internet is video games. You never heard

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of that, And I'm waiting for people to call in

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with their questions. Thank you. We have I'm talking about

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a cult called Minecraft.

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Speaker 3: I'm you, dude.

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Speaker 2: We also have the upcoming event I want to remind

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you guys of that. You can come see us at

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the Horror and Alternative Film Movie Convention. They have about

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four or five hundred people that come to this. I'll

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be speaking Tampa Bay Screams Convention. It's a private dinner,

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separate event though with me and I'll be giving a

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talk on esoteric Hollywood and film. You can get tickets

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to this right here, January nineteenth, Tampa, Yo. If you

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like esoteric Hollywood, you're gonna love this talk and you're

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gonna enjoy esoteric Hollywood. Three that's coming out, baby, I'm mute, dude.

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Thirty three, yes, literally, the Masons literally control the number.

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Thirty three anytime it pops up for you Skizo's out there.

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That's because the Masons are literally causing the number thirty

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three to pop up. They own it. They own numbers,

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but only certain numbers. That makes a lot of sense.

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We did video game analyses back in the day. We

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did a few of those, but we didn't get many.

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We didn't get many. A lot of that stuff doesn't

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get many views. Basically, it's just like twenty twenty people

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that are twenty years old want me to cover video games,

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and that's it. Actually, I think the when we cover

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games that did get some pretty good some good numbers.

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Let's see what's up, y'all ready to get this going.

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We got three or four people in line already. We're

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gonna open it up. The way this work says, you

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can make your argument, you can ask a question. You

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don't have to debate. You can call in and ask

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questions if you want to. By the way, I've not

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been not doing anything in the past three or four days.

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I did multiple other people's podcasts, so those should be

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going up in the next few days. So where was

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Jay for two days? He did in live stream. I

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was on all these other people's podcasts. So we got

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some good, but we got up. We did a pretty

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sweet busy Byzantium Islam History podcast the other day. We

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did a super sweet Philosophy of Bitcoin podcast today, and then, uh, tonight,

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I'm supposed to do interview with a pretty big name person.

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I'm not gonna say who it is. It's gonna be

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a little bit of a surprise, but uh, she's a

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big name person. We're gonna have a hopefully a good

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conversation tonight and we're gonna open it up again. You're

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gonna be I'm muted. Unmute yourself.

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Speaker 1: I'm mute, dude.

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Speaker 2: First up, Byzantine, scumbag, That's what I'm talking about. That's

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a name.

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Speaker 1: I like his name.

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Speaker 2: Front to Neill, friend to Neille, what's up, friend, Tanill?

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Speaker 1: Hey you can hear me, Yes, sir. I just want

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to preface this by saying that I'm Orthodox. I was

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actually baptized this past Saturday.

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Speaker 2: So good shout out for that. It's good. Many years

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to you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks, thanks.

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Speaker 5: I actually got into a Twitter spat with.

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Speaker 1: Some guys. I don't know if you've.

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Speaker 10: Ever heard of this KJV only cult Baptist sext.

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Speaker 2: Like Steven Anderson stuff. Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't

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know any of the people from that, but I'm familiar

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with that. Yeah.

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Speaker 10: Well, they hold that, you know, the King James version

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is the only version that's you know, sure inspired, right,

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and I.

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Speaker 1: Think they only affirmed the sixty sixth book, right.

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Speaker 5: I just wondered what you would say in response to that.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of different ways that you could

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go about responding to that. The first is that ironically,

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his the King James version included the apocrypha, So if

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you have an old KJV, you'll notice that it includes

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the what they call the apocay for the Deutero canonical book. Secondly,

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why are we supposed to believe that a monarch If

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you're an independent Baptist, you're pretty much hate monarchy. Why

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are we supposed to believe that a monarch was somehow

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the means by which God providentially produced the supposed, you know,

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infallible Koran version of the Bible, the KJV. Beyond that,

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there's no reason to accept the Protestant Canada Scripture, beyond

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the fact that Protestants just arbitrarily say it's the right

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Canada scripture because m Jews. Well, who decided that unbelieving

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rabbinic Jews determine the canon for the Church, So pretty

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much all their assumptions are fundamentally stupid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think one of them said that, like.

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Speaker 10: That Ortho and Catholic canons, nobody really uses it some

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weird objections, And then I think one of them said

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that the Dutero canon wasn't really decided upon until like,

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I forget what he said.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's yeah, it's just simply not true. You

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can read the Church fathers throughout the first, second, third, fourth, fifth,

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sixth centuries. They cite liberally from the duterocanonical texts, and

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they do not typically distinguish between what status they have.

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There's a couple fathers that do, like Saint Jerome, but

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even Jerome cites the duter canonical text throughout his theological argumentation,

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and so a lot of times processes will say stuff like, well,

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they didn't they didn't use the Dutero canonical text to

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prove theological arguments. Yeah, they do, in fact, and Jerome

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is not going to be any help to a Protestant

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because Jerome believes in the perpetual virginity of Mary believes

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in the episcopacy. He submitted to you know, his bishops.

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You know he's believes in relics. He wrote read a

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whole treatise against the Vidious and Vigilanteus about relics and Mary. So,

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I mean, there's nothing Protestant about the choices that they

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make for the Canon. It's just literally just arbitrary. That

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will God work through the king to through King James,

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by the way, King James and and that whole crew,

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like they're they're monarchs, Like why would a Baptist follow

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a monarch? It makes no sense.

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Speaker 10: Well, yeah, that's that's about all I had ja, thanks

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for that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just look up kind of some history of the

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Canon and the formation of the Canon, because it's really

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the Council of Trollo for the Orthodox Church, which is

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loosely speaking our canon. Eric Clementino. But that's a great question.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I don't think we've ever had a KJV only person

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calling what's up?

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Speaker 11: Man?

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Speaker 12: Yeah?

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Speaker 11: Yes, so I am an Africa and.

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Speaker 2: Well out in your what.

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Speaker 13: No I heard before you have been a traditional Catholic. Yeah,

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I don't know if you were SSPX or if you

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held a Seeva Countist position. And I also I am

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a critic of Vatican two.

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Speaker 14: And what made you.

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Speaker 13: Reject the Seevacantist position and the SPX position made you

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commerce orthodoxy, That's my question.

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Speaker 2: There were several events and several things. It wasn't like

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one single thing. Yeah, I spent Even when I was

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a of the opinion of set of a contism, I

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still attended the SSPX mass because it was the only

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mass that I had access to. So, yeah, I was

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a trad cat for many years. I would say maybe

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age twenty three until twenty nine ish, somewhere in there

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at twenty thirty, so about seven years of my eight

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or nine years of Roman Catholicism. I was a trad

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cat and a pretty hard one. Eventually, what I came

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to I think the first difficulty was the question of

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the Universal Ordinary Magisterium. If you read Vatican One, it's

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very clear that you have to follow the Universal Ordinary Magisterium,

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that it's guided by the petrion terrorism. So that meant

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I couldn't hold to the SSPX position, which is pretty

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much premised on rejecting many decades of Universal Ordinary Magistriium,

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including even things like the sainthood of John Paul the

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Second and other people. So that led me into the

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stay to position just kind of as a logical necessity

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for like I said, several years. And then I realized

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that the set of a constant position is probably about

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the equivalent of Protestantism within the Roman Catholic world. It's

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just the most factionalized, divided, split, splintered, and actually a

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bunch of crazy people. So I spent many years in

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a lot of those different groups and circles, and I

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went to you know, masses held in people's homes and

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people's in you know, Hampton in mass I mean, I've

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done all of it in that domain. And I started

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reading the Orthodox stuff Church Fathers in about two thousand

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and seven, and that's when I really started to have doubts.

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But I wasn't ready to convert yet, and I would

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say it took me another three or four years before

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I read what I think is probably the best critique

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of the Roman Catholic or excuse me, the set of

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a constosposition, which is just simply that you have these

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statements in Etsy Multa and other encyclicals that pretty much

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equate to the rejecting of the set of a condisposition. So,

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in other words, for set of a contism to be true,

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you would have to reject Etsy Malta. And what's rejected

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in Etsy Malta amounts to a rejection of the set

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of a consposition, even though it's against the old Catholics.

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The arguments that are made in multi apply exactly perfectly

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to set of contism. And so the other thing that

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I read was John Pontrello's book Cet of Couse Delusion,

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where he argues that there's really no way to have

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a papacy. Ever, again this leads to the conclavist position.

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So if you want to go be a Conclavist, I

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mean I think, I think if.

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Speaker 1: You're at that, I follow you.

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Speaker 13: And and and then also I mean you have been

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a Catholic for a long time, and and I assume

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being a Catholic, you did.

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Speaker 1: Believe in all the Mariana positions, for.

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Speaker 13: Example the Fatima one. Do you think they're all fake

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or what's your opinion like for example the Fatima apparitions.

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Speaker 2: Well, when I was a Tradcat, I had no problem

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saying that there are apparitions, but I always held to

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the position that dogmatic revelations trump apparitions. So I mean,

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I was fine admitting that there were apparitions, but they

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didn't play any like crucial role in my approach to doctrine.

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And I remember, I mean I spent time as a

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tradcat going down the Sister Lucy Lucia rabbit hole and

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know what she replaced and what she cloned and all

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this nonsense, and it was all just ended up being idiotic,

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because yeah, I don't believe or put any credence in

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Rome's claims of miracles now, so whether they're all faked,

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I don't know, but it wouldn't matter anyway, because we're

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told not to follow signs and wonders, but to follow

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what's been revealed. So if you base your faith on

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signs and wonders, how are you going to tell a

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Coptic person that they shouldn't be Coptic if Mary appears

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in zy Tune Egypt to the Coptics.

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Speaker 13: Well yeah, well clear, yeah.

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Speaker 2: So apparitions can't be the deciding factor as to which

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faith is correct. And by the way, I've talked to

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trad cats about this and they'll actually argue, oh, well,

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I guess the apparition of Mary means that Mary also

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is revealing herself to the Coptics, so they're part of

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the Rumman Catholicies. So in other words, they ended up

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making it an argument for acumenism. So it's like, I mean,

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are you a track cat or not? So you know, yeah.

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But also, but also there have been multiple faked apparitions,

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and the CIA is on record. Even E Michael Jones

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admits that he thinks that some of these Magiagori and

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other ones are fake.

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Speaker 13: Sure, yeah, sure, I mean I just think, like, for example,

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the Fatima one.

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Speaker 2: So documented, Well, hold on, it's so documented. I mean

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there were fake there were fake news stories in the

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eighteen nineties. So how do you know it's documented because

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a newspaper told you that a bunch of villagers in

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Portugal saw this. How do you know that?

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Speaker 13: I mean, I mean they were living under socialist true,

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and all the media was socialists, and they came there

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to prove that these guys were just crazy, and that's

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when their miracle happened.

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Speaker 2: And then that's why, Well that's the narrative about Fatima.

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But I mean, again, there were fake news stories in

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the eighteen nineties. Look up the bat people in the

377
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Moon story. It's a famous case of the earliest fakings

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of news stories I'm aware of. And you don't think that,

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like if they wanted to look, here's an argument I

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make that if you look at the purpose of Fatima,

381
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Fatima seems to target Russia, and doesn't it just magically

382
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happen to align with the Anglo American establishments designs during

383
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the period of the Great Game against Russia of course,

384
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so it's an anti Russian, pro World War One type

385
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of message that if Russia doesn't convert to the papacy,

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Russia will spread her errors. Well, did Mary not know

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that Marxism communism is not from Russia. It's not a Russian.

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Speaker 13: Russian it's more anti communist. I mean it's yeah, sure,

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but I mean didn't.

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Speaker 1: Well sure, all right?

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Speaker 2: Or what are you saying, Well, the elite are communists,

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so they wouldn't want an anti communist message. Well, I

393
00:26:13,799 --> 00:26:16,039
don't think that the elite. I think the elite above

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communism and capitalism. They are both. So the people who

395
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wanted a World war at one point were pro like

396
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the Rothchills were pro gold Standard and with Churchill as

397
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they're underling. No, they were at one point, publicly against

398
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communism but also secretly supporting it. So no, you can't

399
00:26:38,839 --> 00:26:43,799
go by like the public pro or anti communist stance

400
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,200
necessarily to determine whether or not the elite or or

401
00:26:47,319 --> 00:26:49,759
not supporting something, because the elite will play both sides

402
00:26:49,799 --> 00:26:50,559
of these kinds of things.

403
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Speaker 1: Well, I guess, I guess yeah, that was yeah, that

404
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:58,279
was yeah.

405
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Speaker 2: I mean how would you?

406
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Speaker 14: Uh?

407
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Speaker 2: I mean, I've got the thing pulled up here as

408
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a Catholic website talking about Marian apparitions at the Coptic

409
00:27:07,079 --> 00:27:10,279
Church in Egypt. So does that prove Coptic theology? It

410
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,000
was seen by uh, it was seen by thousands of

411
00:27:14,039 --> 00:27:14,759
people too, So.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, I would just say, like like the denaratives of

413
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the Fatima appression, for example, like it's it's it's very

414
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:32,640
obvious that that Portugal, Portugal was under socialist regime. The

415
00:27:32,759 --> 00:27:35,240
people who were going there, the media was going there.

416
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They were going there to prove that.

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Speaker 1: The disguise are crazy.

418
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Speaker 13: That's that was the recently went there, and that's there

419
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were many many commercials. There were photos of the of

420
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the Sun and the Mida because and everything, and the

421
00:27:50,079 --> 00:27:52,160
New York New York Times truth about it, everyone.

422
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 2: You don't think that, Okay, but you don't think there

423
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,160
were fake news stories at that time. Nobody fake news stories.

424
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Speaker 5: Yes that like with that no in that fencelow in

425
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that pen snow.

426
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Speaker 11: No.

427
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Speaker 2: I mean again, that's just simply false. There have been

428
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,119
fake news stories since the eighteen nineties. Look up bat

429
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,839
people on the Moon. It's a famous case that duped

430
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,599
all the intellectuals of the eighteen nineties. They literally thought

431
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,160
there were bad people on the moon because a prominent

432
00:28:21,319 --> 00:28:25,000
public newspaper, Chicago Sun or Son Tribune or something like that,

433
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,880
printed a series of articles claiming that the scientists had

434
00:28:29,079 --> 00:28:32,079
proven that there were bat people on the moon. It's

435
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,000
a famous case, and this is way before Fatima. And

436
00:28:35,079 --> 00:28:37,559
I'm just simply making the point that it's just it's

437
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,960
not true that there were not fake news stories on

438
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,920
a large scale, and at the time of Fatima there were.

439
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,799
That doesn't prove fatimastake necessarily. But my point is that

440
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what we'd have no record of what was seen in

441
00:28:49,519 --> 00:28:52,559
this village beyond these supposed newspapers.

442
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: All right, torn sure, and yeah, yeah, I think that, Yeah,

443
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I think that was my.

444
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Speaker 13: Again, what was your main argument against, Like, this is

445
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a County's position and like, because yeah, well.

446
00:29:10,039 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: If you read John Pontrello's little book, Seat of a

447
00:29:12,039 --> 00:29:16,279
Causees Delusion, he'll make a series of arguments that, for example,

448
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:22,960
you cannot have the fundamental essential components of the definition

449
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of the church a law of Vatican One in the

450
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Roman system undergo a massive change such that the Roman

451
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see loses its visibility. And what I mean is not

452
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even in reference to a period of a brief vacancy

453
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until another opponent or occupant occupies the sea. I'm talking

454
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about the complete loss of visible unity of the entire

455
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church structure for seventy eighty years, which is no longer

456
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in Rome. If you read Vatican One, that's clearly not

457
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,160
seen as a possibility at all. It's a foregone conclusion

458
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that that cannot happen because it specifically says that there

459
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,079
will be successors in the Seat of Peter until the

460
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return of Christ. Does not say until some undefined end

461
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times and then there's one hundred year of vacancy or

462
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whatever bull crap that set of a contest put in

463
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there to make it work. It says until the end

464
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till the return of Christ. So if that position is

465
00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:25,519
going to work, you've got to have successors until the

466
00:30:25,599 --> 00:30:28,559
return of Christ. You can't have this seventy eighty hundred

467
00:30:28,599 --> 00:30:31,759
year vacancy of no popes. Plus all the people who

468
00:30:31,759 --> 00:30:34,720
would elect the next pope are all now also outside

469
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,880
the church and apostates. How are you going to get

470
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,119
another pope? This is where you get the idiot cult

471
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,319
people at Palmar Detroita who believe they've elected a new

472
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,960
pope through a Marian apparition, or you get the Conclavist

473
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,480
who believe it because and they have the argument is

474
00:30:50,559 --> 00:30:52,359
that you have to have popes until the end of

475
00:30:52,359 --> 00:30:54,400
the world. That's what Betican says about it. One says,

476
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,480
so it's a dead end position, it's a defeater. It

477
00:30:58,559 --> 00:30:59,119
doesn't work.

478
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,079
Speaker 15: Yeah, yeah, you.

479
00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 13: Should debate some set of vant Have you invited.

480
00:31:06,039 --> 00:31:07,799
Speaker 1: Someone like.

481
00:31:09,319 --> 00:31:12,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, actually, I've asked Jerry Madditis multiple times over the

482
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,160
years to come and debate it, and you won't do it.

483
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,079
Speaker 13: So all right, all right, yeah, thank you for letting

484
00:31:18,119 --> 00:31:18,640
me speak.

485
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,519
Speaker 2: Good great questions. Appreciate it. Yeah, I mean read Set

486
00:31:21,519 --> 00:31:24,160
of a Conscious Solution by John Pontrello. I also did

487
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,079
a three hour talk on the book Set of a

488
00:31:27,119 --> 00:31:29,960
Conscious delution liberals against leftists, and by the way, John

489
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:45,480
Patrello became War Talks. What's up, dude, What's up dude? Anybody, Hey,

490
00:31:45,759 --> 00:31:46,519
what's on your mind?

491
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 11: Idea?

492
00:31:48,519 --> 00:31:50,359
Speaker 5: I wanted to get your interpretation on it.

493
00:31:51,519 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 14: I'm still reading through the bib On, I'm trying to

494
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,000
figure out things. So I have an idea though, and

495
00:31:58,559 --> 00:32:03,440
I would like your interpretation on it. So basically, I

496
00:32:03,599 --> 00:32:08,759
believe that God limits himself. He limits himself because if

497
00:32:08,799 --> 00:32:11,440
he was all powerful, it would be easy choice.

498
00:32:11,839 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: God is good.

499
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,039
Speaker 5: We just we don't need any faith, and so he

500
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:17,960
limits himself.

501
00:32:18,519 --> 00:32:21,799
Speaker 14: And in some of the scripture it was stated that

502
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:29,200
Arguentel Michael basically wouldn't accuse Satan of anything because that's

503
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,240
not really He's not powerful enough, He's not God.

504
00:32:32,359 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: He needs God to sort of back him up.

505
00:32:36,759 --> 00:32:39,799
Speaker 14: And in my mind that means that Satan is kind

506
00:32:39,839 --> 00:32:43,519
of like an all powerful not obviously not as quite

507
00:32:43,599 --> 00:32:47,759
as as God himself. But my question is if that

508
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,920
is true, if Satan is an all powerful kind of

509
00:32:52,039 --> 00:32:58,680
like God, maybe maybe the world itself is being pulled

510
00:32:58,759 --> 00:33:04,039
towards an equal librium good versus evil, always being pulled

511
00:33:04,079 --> 00:33:07,759
to the center. And in this center is where we

512
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,839
human beings get to choose. We choose good side versus

513
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,400
bad side. He's not God's not going to come to

514
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,519
face to face and say this is me. It's easy

515
00:33:18,599 --> 00:33:22,000
to believe, right, It's going to be more of a

516
00:33:23,319 --> 00:33:26,039
more of a It has to be a choice. And

517
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,720
I was wondering for I was wondering if you had

518
00:33:30,839 --> 00:33:34,880
like any input on this, because I do believe God

519
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:35,799
is all powerful.

520
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 5: He is the one true King.

521
00:33:37,559 --> 00:33:38,319
Speaker 1: He can do anything.

522
00:33:38,799 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 5: We have to build a relationship with him.

523
00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:43,599
Speaker 2: So this is kind of so the first thing I

524
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,599
would say, it sounds like this is like a Manichy

525
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,920
and Gnostic duelist type of position. So, no, Satan is

526
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,720
not like the co equivalent or the flip side of God.

527
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,599
Satan is a creature, and so everything that is created

528
00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:00,440
is very much so inferior to the uncreated. God alone

529
00:34:00,519 --> 00:34:05,799
is uncreated. So anything that has a created status is temporal,

530
00:34:06,319 --> 00:34:12,519
subject to change, flux, limited, finite, et cetera. So angels

531
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:17,079
and we believe Satan Lucifer is an angel, He's basically

532
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:22,519
equivalent to a cherub or some high ranking angel according

533
00:34:22,559 --> 00:34:26,559
to Ezekiel. So the reason that Michael says in that

534
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:32,840
discourse that he would not rebuke the devil is because

535
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,199
of the ranking of the authority, in the same way

536
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,480
that David doesn't rebuke Saul. Even though Saul is a

537
00:34:39,559 --> 00:34:43,039
wicked king, Saul still had authority, and so he was

538
00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:46,280
respecting the authority structure that was set up. So it

539
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,280
has nothing to do with like Satan being almost almighty

540
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,000
or close to God. No, he's not anywhere close to

541
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,599
almighty or God, because only God is almighty.

542
00:34:58,559 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 5: And I do you think then that.

543
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,079
Speaker 14: God wants us to be sort of in a in

544
00:35:06,119 --> 00:35:11,880
a continuous center, being continuously centered, so that we have

545
00:35:12,079 --> 00:35:15,159
to choose good evil kind of thing? Do you think

546
00:35:15,199 --> 00:35:20,320
he is trying to just you know, push just enough

547
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,119
so that it's just always somewhat in the middle, there's

548
00:35:23,159 --> 00:35:25,360
always a choice, or do you think there is an

549
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,719
end goal Everything will be good eventually.

550
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 2: Kind of yeah. Paul says that all things will be

551
00:35:32,119 --> 00:35:34,639
God will be all in all, will be all in

552
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,320
in all, So eventually good will be completely the norm

553
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,599
and there will not be any possibility of deviation or rebellion,

554
00:35:42,639 --> 00:35:46,519
so evil will be completely stamped out. But evil doesn't

555
00:35:46,559 --> 00:35:49,360
have being or substance. It's a privation or a negation.

556
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,679
It's not a thing. It's an action against the good

557
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,400
is all that it is. So to restore things to

558
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,920
the adenic state would be to simply remove the possibility

559
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,079
of that negation. It's not a destroying of anything physical

560
00:36:05,199 --> 00:36:05,920
or substantial.

561
00:36:07,639 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 14: So so you I understand really basically there is an

562
00:36:13,079 --> 00:36:15,400
end goal. The end goal is to create all good

563
00:36:15,599 --> 00:36:21,000
heaven on earth and really to to get rid of evil.

564
00:36:21,119 --> 00:36:25,000
I mean basically there there is that objective goal.

565
00:36:25,519 --> 00:36:30,199
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, So we believe it's a

566
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,079
restoration of all things to their proper natural stay, which

567
00:36:34,159 --> 00:36:35,320
is what Eden was.

568
00:36:36,119 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: And so.

569
00:36:38,039 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 2: Evil was not what God intended according to the Deutero canon.

570
00:36:41,519 --> 00:36:44,760
It's something that went against his will. He tolerated it

571
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,440
and permitted it, but will through the actions and resurrection

572
00:36:48,559 --> 00:36:52,480
of Christ, restore the entire universe to what was intended

573
00:36:52,519 --> 00:36:53,679
to be the case in Eden.

574
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 14: Then then why do you think God does everything that

575
00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:04,679
he can to push towards good to get rid of evil?

576
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:09,559
Speaker 5: Or is he letting us kind of choose it or I.

577
00:37:09,559 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 2: Think he Yeah, we synergize and participate with God, so

578
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,800
it's not an all, all one sided thing. He intends

579
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:22,039
for there to be a period of training up in virtue,

580
00:37:22,119 --> 00:37:25,440
a period of you know, choosing the good as you're

581
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,239
putting it in to become like him before the restoration.

582
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:33,119
Speaker 1: I appreciate.

583
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,199
Speaker 14: Do you have, like, any kind of scripture I can

584
00:37:36,559 --> 00:37:39,760
look up that comes to mind person clarity on this

585
00:37:40,159 --> 00:37:46,719
about what about God's pushing of the synergy between human

586
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,320
beings and God and his end goal of being Yeah.

587
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 2: So basically Colossians one, two and three in Romans eight

588
00:37:55,519 --> 00:37:58,639
describes the cosmic scope of everything that we're talking about.

589
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:03,639
Speaker 1: Awesome. I really appreciate it.

590
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 14: Thank you.

591
00:38:05,079 --> 00:38:07,559
Speaker 2: Yeah. So to the Calvinist dude in the chat, if

592
00:38:07,599 --> 00:38:10,199
he doesn't want to call in, he just boot him. So, oh,

593
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:11,800
I don't have a MIC, but I don't have a

594
00:38:12,519 --> 00:38:15,239
I only have a dial up phone. But he's sitting here.

595
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,599
I don't have a I don't own a mic, but

596
00:38:17,679 --> 00:38:19,840
I'm a pre supper. Oh no, Mike, all right, Well

597
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,239
then too bad. This isn't a vehicle for you to

598
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,559
just yap and spam the chat. So it's it's a

599
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,079
vehicle for people to call in and debate. So later, dude,

600
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:34,800
I'm talking to the dude in the chat, not the

601
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,280
guy that called in so you call in here through Twitter.

602
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,000
He has a rotary phone, but he is typing on

603
00:38:48,039 --> 00:38:51,719
the internet. Uh huh, I can't tell this dude has

604
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:59,039
no name. Al Okwan al Okwan, Hakeem olaja Wan.

605
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: Oh well that was fast.

606
00:39:04,039 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 16: Hey, Jail's it going?

607
00:39:05,039 --> 00:39:05,679
Speaker 2: What's up dude?

608
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:06,639
Speaker 11: Hey?

609
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: I just wanted to bring a different kind of perspective

610
00:39:10,039 --> 00:39:12,239
a little bit and maybe a little bit of follow

611
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,320
up too. I'm not here to cause any trouble. I'm

612
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,320
not here to mock. I'm just just bringing up a

613
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:17,559
different idea. You know.

614
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,519
Speaker 17: So back in the day, I remember, you know, I mean,

615
00:39:20,559 --> 00:39:22,639
not that I was from a thousand years ago or not.

616
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,360
Just from my readings, I was aware that a lot

617
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,840
of these debates were kind of solved with sword and shield.

618
00:39:28,159 --> 00:39:30,400
And my question is, why are we going back and

619
00:39:30,519 --> 00:39:32,840
forth debating with these people when we should be killing them?

620
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 2: Okay, good job, fed, Yeah, I mean, if you think

621
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,440
about it, Yeah, that's really funny. Okay, yea, I go

622
00:39:43,599 --> 00:39:48,239
fed elsewhere fed X maybe Joe Ed Lopez? What's up?

623
00:39:55,119 --> 00:39:57,079
Speaker 1: Hey? So?

624
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:07,559
Speaker 18: Okay, so inquiring orthodox? I know there's a thing about

625
00:40:07,679 --> 00:40:12,000
salvation only found in the church. What's your thoughts on

626
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,880
when people say, well, the thief on the cross was

627
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:18,320
you know, accepted into the kingdom.

628
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,599
Speaker 2: Well, the thief on the cross was Orthodox.

629
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 18: So what do you mean, Well, like salvation has to

630
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,880
come through the church. There's no church stablished right now.

631
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,079
Speaker 2: Well, the church is the mystical body of Christ, and

632
00:40:32,159 --> 00:40:34,000
so the thief on the cross is joined to the

633
00:40:34,039 --> 00:40:35,679
mystical body of Christ on the cross.

634
00:40:41,599 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 18: So even though he didn't have understanding of the Trinity

635
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:46,960
or any other traditional doctoral.

636
00:40:47,079 --> 00:40:50,159
Speaker 2: Well, we're not saved by our degree of understanding. We're

637
00:40:50,199 --> 00:40:54,039
saved by our repentance and humility. So understanding comes along

638
00:40:54,159 --> 00:40:57,320
with that. So no, it's not like you get a

639
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,480
thhd to be saved. You're you're saved through repentance and humility.

640
00:41:01,599 --> 00:41:03,280
But that's great, that's a good question. I understand what

641
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:04,559
you're saying. No, I don't think that you have to

642
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,400
master all the theology to be saved. But to the

643
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,159
evangelical person in the chat, if you're not going to

644
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,119
call in, this is not for you to spam your

645
00:41:17,039 --> 00:41:20,440
complaining about people saying cuss words. So either come in

646
00:41:20,519 --> 00:41:24,920
de bay or you leave. It's not for your virtue

647
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:31,519
signaling here what's this person's name? They already get booted

648
00:41:31,599 --> 00:41:34,400
where they go? Hold on, I need to put this

649
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,639
on lot where I see all the chat because I

650
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:41,760
forgot to do that. There we go, Mario, the tri

651
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:46,519
yun yahweh okay. So anybody using this goofy Hebrew names

652
00:41:46,639 --> 00:41:49,119
for God. We already know what kind of nonsense this is.

653
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,760
So Mario, either you call in or you get booted.

654
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:58,280
This is not a place for messianic heresy. Chat Aw, what's.

655
00:41:58,159 --> 00:42:10,159
Speaker 1: Up, Hiday?

656
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 12: I have a question about baptism. Are what counts as

657
00:42:19,079 --> 00:42:21,039
I mean, I know what baptism is. It baptism is.

658
00:42:21,159 --> 00:42:24,119
But what I'm getting at is does it have to

659
00:42:24,199 --> 00:42:28,960
strictly be within the Orthodox Church to be counted as baptized?

660
00:42:29,079 --> 00:42:32,079
Speaker 2: I mean yes, because only the Orthodox Church can give

661
00:42:32,119 --> 00:42:35,000
you the faith. You can't divorce the sacraments from the

662
00:42:35,079 --> 00:42:37,039
faith and the community that gives it to you. So

663
00:42:37,159 --> 00:42:40,360
it's the Roman Catholic position that thinks that atheists and

664
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,480
Muslims can baptize you. We don't believe that you have

665
00:42:43,639 --> 00:42:45,480
to be baptized in the Orthodox Church. And that's why

666
00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:51,039
nobody prior to the early medieval acceptance of the idea

667
00:42:51,119 --> 00:42:54,719
that pagans and atheists can baptize you. Nobody ever taught

668
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,159
that until Rome worked that out via the presuppositions of

669
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,920
Exopera up rato that Augustine had. So, yes, you have

670
00:43:03,039 --> 00:43:08,320
to be baptized in the Orthodox Church with Orthodox katechisis Now,

671
00:43:08,559 --> 00:43:11,360
does that mean that I'm therefore damning everyone outside the church. No,

672
00:43:11,639 --> 00:43:14,440
I don't know people's destiny outside the church. Paul says

673
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,119
that it's not our job to judge those outside the church.

674
00:43:17,519 --> 00:43:21,519
But I know that for you to have correct Orthodox baptism,

675
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:23,480
it's in the Orthodox Church that I do know.

676
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:25,639
Speaker 1: Okay.

677
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,199
Speaker 12: So I mean if someone is baptized, say in some

678
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,800
Lutheran or even an Evangelical church, would that be null

679
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,559
and void and null I actually count as baptism.

680
00:43:36,159 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 2: Well, the church can determine that maybe you were baptized

681
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:43,960
in the correct form, in the correct words, and in

682
00:43:44,079 --> 00:43:48,320
the correct ritual. But the heresy in our view, and

683
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,199
ironically even Augustine believe this, even though he recognized the

684
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:57,239
quote validity of the baptisms outside the church. The impediment

685
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,360
to the reception of the grace is the heretical confession.

686
00:44:01,639 --> 00:44:05,320
So sometimes the Orthodox Church receives people from those groups

687
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,960
via the rejection of the heresy. Sometimes the church determines

688
00:44:10,039 --> 00:44:12,639
that you need to be baptized because it didn't even

689
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,599
count as a baptism. For example, some of the novsorto

690
00:44:15,679 --> 00:44:17,880
Catholic churches baptized people in the name of the land,

691
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:22,360
the sea, and the air, so that by most, hopefully

692
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,280
most Orthodox priests and bishops would not even be considered

693
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,199
a baptism at all. So that can be abused because

694
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,800
there is a degree of economia there, and sometimes that's

695
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,920
abused for the purposes of a humanism. But the basic

696
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,039
principle still stands that yes, in order for the baptism

697
00:44:39,159 --> 00:44:41,719
to be an Orthodox baptism, it needs to be the

698
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,360
Orthodox Church baptizing you. And if the church decides that

699
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,960
you don't have to be baptized because the ritual is uncorrectly,

700
00:44:49,519 --> 00:44:52,679
then the impediment to the reception of the grace is

701
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,800
removed by the rejection of the heresy.

702
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 1: Okay, oh thanks, yeah, great, great question.

703
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, we get that question all the time.

704
00:45:04,519 --> 00:45:04,639
Speaker 8: Uh.

705
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 2: Cal let's see, we got a bunch of people here.

706
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,039
Let's see. Uh, whoa, we just got ten people on

707
00:45:10,159 --> 00:45:13,400
line packed up. Now some people have been waiting for

708
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,000
a while. Let me find somebody's been waiting for a

709
00:45:15,039 --> 00:45:20,239
good while here, Jaguar has been waiting.

710
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 1: What's up, dude, Oh hi Jay, thanks for having me on. Hey, So,

711
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,920
I'm I wanted to talk about the Catholic perspective.

712
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 19: I've been mostly convinced by Orthodoxy over the past couple

713
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:41,960
of years, but I've been looking into the Catholic side

714
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,719
more try to make sure I don't have any blind

715
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,239
spots or too much of a bias.

716
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,639
Speaker 2: Sure, but it.

717
00:45:48,679 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 19: Seems when I when I see debates on the two,

718
00:45:51,039 --> 00:45:53,880
there's a lot of quote mining on both sides.

719
00:45:53,559 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 1: Where this guy this church father said this, and that

720
00:45:56,519 --> 00:45:57,280
church father said that.

721
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, everybody engages in unquote money, which is yeah, which

722
00:46:00,159 --> 00:46:01,639
is kind of unfortunate, but yeah.

723
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,119
Speaker 19: And it would seem to me the burden of truth

724
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,639
is much higher for Catholics just to the nature of

725
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:09,280
them claiming authority over the whole.

726
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the Vatican One claims are pretty you know,

727
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,039
heavy duty claims.

728
00:46:14,119 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah.

729
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 19: One thing that I noticed it seems if the Pope

730
00:46:21,119 --> 00:46:24,000
is who they say he's supposed to be, that it

731
00:46:24,039 --> 00:46:27,920
seems like one of their strongest arguments should be examples

732
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,360
of how modern popes are acting and behaving, and it

733
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:32,800
seems like that's the last thing.

734
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:33,639
Speaker 1: They want to talk about.

735
00:46:36,159 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's the crack in the armor that

736
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,719
they feel like has to be avoided. And it's not

737
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,840
just the quote behavior of the popes, because they're always

738
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,719
going to deflect and say, well, we never claim that

739
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,639
the pope is impeccable. He's just theologically infallible when he's

740
00:46:52,639 --> 00:46:57,000
speaking execathedra blah blah blah blah blah. But that's missing

741
00:46:57,079 --> 00:47:01,440
the point that some sins in Catholic theology are unique

742
00:47:01,679 --> 00:47:05,880
in that they remove you from the body, those being heresy, schism,

743
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,920
and apostasy. Those are unique sins in Catholic moral theology

744
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:11,840
and canon law, which are still on the books. It's

745
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,000
still in the modern post. Nineteen eighty three John Paul

746
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:18,119
the second Canon law that if you commit heresy, apostasy,

747
00:47:18,199 --> 00:47:23,239
and schism, you are excommunicated ipso facto laate sententia, that is,

748
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,679
without any declaration of an authoritative body, by virtue of

749
00:47:26,679 --> 00:47:29,800
the action itself. The same penalty is given for the example,

750
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:33,760
for example, four Catholics that procure an abration. If you,

751
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,159
as a Roman Catholic, a faithful procure and abraution, you

752
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,599
are supposed to be immediately excommunicated for that action. It

753
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:43,559
doesn't require the bishop meeting in a sonata a council

754
00:47:43,679 --> 00:47:48,480
and pronouncing you like you know Beckett and the movie back,

755
00:47:48,639 --> 00:47:51,679
Oh Got Extremainer ktro. It doesn't require any of that.

756
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:55,840
That's what the word late centinia ipso facto means. So

757
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,039
ninety nine percent of Roman Catholics don't know that. They

758
00:47:59,079 --> 00:48:01,039
don't they're not aware of that. They don't know their

759
00:48:01,039 --> 00:48:03,800
own theology. They just assume because they repeat all the

760
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,000
pop stuff that their car salesman. Apologists all put out

761
00:48:07,039 --> 00:48:11,079
online that the pope's not impeccable, he still has sins.

762
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:15,000
He's just infallible when he teaches theologically for the entire church.

763
00:48:15,039 --> 00:48:17,639
And so I don't have to accept anything that Francis says,

764
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,079
except except when I deem that he's teaching theologically for

765
00:48:21,199 --> 00:48:23,800
the whole church. And it doesn't work like that. That's

766
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,800
not true true right when E Vatican one says that

767
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,719
you're not just bound by extraordinary magistarium, you're also bound

768
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:34,239
by the universal ordinary teaching, which is infallible just as

769
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,599
much as extra extraordinary is and you're also bound by

770
00:48:37,639 --> 00:48:40,599
his ordinary teaching, which is fallible, but even though it

771
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,559
might error, you must submit with docility. So there's no

772
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,639
room for this papal minimalism that they're trying to push

773
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,199
to save the position. Uh, it doesn't exist. It's nowhere

774
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,199
in the mind of Vatican one. It's a post Vatican

775
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:56,119
two invention of the Neotrads who want to save the

776
00:48:56,159 --> 00:48:57,280
position and make it work.

777
00:48:58,679 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think I saw one of them. It may

778
00:49:00,519 --> 00:49:01,320
have been when you did.

779
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 19: Where didn't a previous pope say that you're basically excommunicated

780
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,840
if you worship in another religion's temple, and then future popes.

781
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mortalium Animos says. It's famous and cyclical from nineteen

782
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,000
twenty eight to Pisti eleven. It says that if you

783
00:49:15,079 --> 00:49:18,400
participate in the interfaith gatherings, it is apostasy.

784
00:49:20,159 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 19: Okay, So if that pope was able to time travel

785
00:49:23,039 --> 00:49:26,159
and show up, he would excommunicate the popes.

786
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:26,559
Speaker 1: That we're here now.

787
00:49:28,159 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 2: He would probably say it's the it's the great apostasy

788
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,079
the church is you know, yeah, exactly, Yeah, I mean,

789
00:49:34,119 --> 00:49:35,519
I don't know what he would say, but something like

790
00:49:35,599 --> 00:49:37,079
that probably Yeah.

791
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 19: One last thing I wanted to ask, didn't because they

792
00:49:40,079 --> 00:49:42,440
bring up Peter as the kind of the baseline for this,

793
00:49:42,639 --> 00:49:45,559
But didn't Peter start more than one church?

794
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 2: Yes, he is the uh, the founder of multiple sees,

795
00:49:53,039 --> 00:49:55,519
the Patrian Seas. Even as late as Saint Gregory the Pope,

796
00:49:55,519 --> 00:49:58,119
Saint Gregory the Great, he calls the Patrian Seas, Rome,

797
00:49:58,159 --> 00:50:01,960
Alexandri and Antioch three are called by him in his

798
00:50:02,199 --> 00:50:06,039
letters the Patrine Sees. And so what Rome does in

799
00:50:06,199 --> 00:50:08,840
order to counter this is say, well, but Peter died

800
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,480
in Rome, so it's the one that really gets the authority. Well,

801
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,320
where did that come from? That's just made up? Well,

802
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,079
I mean it's not made up. It's true that Peter

803
00:50:17,199 --> 00:50:19,960
died in Rome. But if you look through the evolution

804
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:25,480
of the arguments for papal supremacy and power in universality

805
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:28,360
and all that, it's an evolving thing. A great book

806
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:32,079
that just came out that discusses this is Sishinsky's book

807
00:50:33,639 --> 00:50:37,199
Papacy in the Orthodox, which really you only need to

808
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,320
read for this for what we're talking about, you just

809
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,239
need to read the chapter that deals with like the

810
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,840
first to seventh century, which is about maybe thirty forty pages.

811
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:51,320
It's chapters four and five. Those chapters really make this

812
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:55,920
point very forcefully that you have the idea of yeah,

813
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,639
Peter died in Rome. Yeah, there's you know, there's a

814
00:50:59,039 --> 00:51:02,199
there's an honor that's due to the Petrine seas and

815
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,280
particularly at Rome, because of it being Peter and Paul.

816
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,280
So it is always traditionally called the see of Peter

817
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,800
and Paul. If you go to Rome and you go

818
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,360
to the latter in Basilica, which is the old traditional

819
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,119
first Millennium seat of the Bishop of Rome, it honors

820
00:51:18,199 --> 00:51:21,320
Peter and Paul. Even in the Vatican, Peter and Poel

821
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:25,159
are situated up front as if they're equal, right, But

822
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,440
the argument of Vatican I and Leo the thirteenth in

823
00:51:29,559 --> 00:51:32,880
statist Cognitum is that you cannot say that Rome is

824
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,400
great because of Peter Mpol. Paul has nothing to do

825
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,960
with it. It's only Peter, because Peter's a martyr there,

826
00:51:39,079 --> 00:51:42,519
and the blood of Peter in Rome is part of

827
00:51:42,639 --> 00:51:46,199
this idea that just evolves that that therefore gives the

828
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:53,280
Bishop of Rome this wild infallibility universality claim that he

829
00:51:53,519 --> 00:51:55,400
didn't have until centuries later.

830
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 1: Okay, well, yeah, I'll check that book. I appreciate you.

831
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:02,559
I just wanted to bounce all the thoughts off you,

832
00:52:02,679 --> 00:52:03,199
so thank you.

833
00:52:03,679 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and everybody should read Moretalium Animals of nineteen twenty eight,

834
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:11,199
the famous paper and cyclical absolutely condemning any form of

835
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:15,119
the humanism and religious interfaith prayers and gatherings. And at

836
00:52:15,159 --> 00:52:18,679
that time, keep this in mind, Pope Pious the eleventh

837
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,960
was merely talking about other so called Christian groups. He's

838
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:27,360
talking about Anglicans, Orthodox and Evangelicals. He's not talking about

839
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:32,079
praying with freaking Muslims and Jews and Moss and Synagogues

840
00:52:32,159 --> 00:52:35,599
and Pagans and Buddhists like John Paul the Second did

841
00:52:36,119 --> 00:52:40,159
so the post Vatican Two popes went light years beyond

842
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,960
even what was in the mind of Pious the eleventh

843
00:52:43,039 --> 00:52:48,360
to condemn. Does that make sense, Yeah, that makes a

844
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,599
lot of sense. He's just saying, Bro, you can't even

845
00:52:50,639 --> 00:52:53,360
pray with Anglicans, how much more can you not pray

846
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:54,239
with freaking Buddhists.

847
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

848
00:52:55,039 --> 00:52:58,800
Speaker 19: I think overall their claims are are pretty pretty ridiculous,

849
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,199
and they were just at anywhere at the level they

850
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:03,400
would have to be in a back up.

851
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,119
Speaker 1: What they're what they're trying to say is what it

852
00:53:06,159 --> 00:53:08,280
seems like to me. I'm not very smart or well

853
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:08,920
educated on.

854
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 2: This, but well you don't have to be an expert

855
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:16,639
on it to see pretty clearly that the if you

856
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:20,519
read that Sushinsky chapter, you'll notice that, oh, it's an

857
00:53:20,599 --> 00:53:24,880
evolving thing, like this idea of you know, for example,

858
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,639
Rome was always listed first because it was the Sea

859
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:29,880
of where Peter and Paul were martyred, so there's an

860
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,039
honor that's given to Rome. But the fact that say,

861
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:36,480
the Council of Nicea lists Rome as the first of

862
00:53:36,559 --> 00:53:40,400
the seas by you know, eight hundred years later, that

863
00:53:40,519 --> 00:53:45,920
has evolved into like total autocracy. So it's clearly an evolution.

864
00:53:46,079 --> 00:53:49,360
And here's the irony. This is another key contradiction. If

865
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,199
you read Vatican One, if if you read Sati's Cognitium

866
00:53:52,199 --> 00:53:54,280
of Leo the thirteenth, these are very important, you know,

867
00:53:55,039 --> 00:53:59,360
papal documents about the papasy. They argue that it's not

868
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:04,000
an evolving thing. So it's later Roman Catholic apologetics post

869
00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:07,960
Cardinal Newman that adopted the idea that, well, the way

870
00:54:08,039 --> 00:54:11,320
to actually defend and prove this papacy stuff via Vatican one,

871
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,519
and what Vatican was claiming is we have to concede

872
00:54:14,559 --> 00:54:17,159
that there's an evolution in this idea. It's a seed

873
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:22,400
that grows into a tree. But Vatican one and Pasture

874
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:27,440
Attornis and Satist Cognitium reject the idea that it evolved.

875
00:54:27,519 --> 00:54:30,079
In fact, they claim that it was always universally the

876
00:54:30,119 --> 00:54:32,719
case from the earliest days of the Church. So it

877
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,519
can't be both. It can't be something that was always

878
00:54:35,639 --> 00:54:38,239
universally held and true and something that was a seed

879
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,480
that evolved. Those are mutually exclusive ideas.

880
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 19: Yeah, I mean everything about it just seems very arbitrary

881
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:49,519
to me on their sides.

882
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 2: So, well, have you read Dictatus pape I.

883
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:56,159
Speaker 1: Mean that, Yeah, I have it. I watched debates on YouTube.

884
00:54:56,199 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 19: I haven't really read anything to be honest about this topic,

885
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:00,639
but probably should.

886
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 1: Well.

887
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:02,679
Speaker 2: I mean this is when you know, in the eleventh century,

888
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:07,440
the papacy becomes a geopolitical world power estate and actually

889
00:55:07,559 --> 00:55:10,719
takes on all the machinations and operations of the state,

890
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,000
including warfare intelligence agencies.

891
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 1: So what year would have been this view?

892
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 2: Approximately the tatas Pappy is ten to ninety, but it's

893
00:55:19,039 --> 00:55:22,440
under the papacy of greg Gregory the seventh and this

894
00:55:22,559 --> 00:55:24,679
is called the Gregorian reforms. This is when you have

895
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:28,400
a vast change in the ecclesial structure in the Latin

896
00:55:28,519 --> 00:55:32,480
Church from what was previously the model of the Orthodox

897
00:55:32,559 --> 00:55:36,239
sonodal Church and in the these are called the Gregorian

898
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,679
reforms because it turns the Latin Church into the papal church.

899
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,039
And this is well known. This is admitted now by

900
00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:51,000
Eastern Roman Catholic scholars. Devornik Sashansky used to be a Unia,

901
00:55:51,039 --> 00:55:55,599
it became Orthodox. It's admitted by Kongar and others. It's

902
00:55:55,679 --> 00:55:58,559
by the way, if you just read the Vatican's recent

903
00:55:58,679 --> 00:56:09,440
declarations on history on Orthodox discussion, the Alexandria document from

904
00:56:09,559 --> 00:56:12,400
June of twenty twenty three, it admits all this. So

905
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,000
the Vaticans basically admitted all this.

906
00:56:15,159 --> 00:56:16,559
Speaker 1: Okay, I will check that out.

907
00:56:17,559 --> 00:56:21,320
Speaker 19: Yeah, I mean I honestly I wrote off the back

908
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:24,719
when the news with the Catholic Church and the PDF

909
00:56:25,119 --> 00:56:30,639
file stuff was it everywhere. I completely wrote off ever

910
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:36,599
even considering it until more recently when I've learned about Orthodoxy,

911
00:56:36,679 --> 00:56:38,960
and then I thought I should give it a fair shake.

912
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 1: Or at least try to.

913
00:56:40,599 --> 00:56:44,039
Speaker 2: So, No, I think it's good to know their arguments

914
00:56:44,159 --> 00:56:45,800
and know like kind of what.

915
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 1: The I mean. When you only hear their side, they

916
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:50,519
can sound convincing.

917
00:56:50,119 --> 00:56:52,639
Speaker 2: If well, yeah, I fell for it. I fell for

918
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,320
I fell for papal quote minds. I fell for forged

919
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,719
papal quotes back in my twenties. That's why I was

920
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:03,960
Roman Catholic. Yeah, so YEA great question for a long time.

921
00:57:04,119 --> 00:57:07,079
So well, same here. So I get you like to

922
00:57:07,159 --> 00:57:12,039
become orthonoxy Yeah, great questions, and keep keep looking into it,

923
00:57:12,159 --> 00:57:24,320
keep searching. California Prepper, what's up? I'm you dude?

924
00:57:27,159 --> 00:57:28,559
Speaker 1: Can you hear me? All right? I'm driving?

925
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:33,639
Speaker 2: Hi, know what's up? Man? Hey Jamie? Okay, go ahead.

926
00:57:35,719 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: I have a question.

927
00:57:36,599 --> 00:57:38,679
Speaker 6: I have a family member who likes to flirt with

928
00:57:38,719 --> 00:57:42,320
the Gnostic ideas, and I tried to have discussions with him,

929
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,199
and he likes to quote like the Infancy Gospel of

930
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:51,159
Thomas and say also like, hey, the church throughout all

931
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,280
this scripture because they're they were corrupt, they wanted to

932
00:57:55,599 --> 00:57:58,119
like have their own power and not have any other

933
00:57:58,239 --> 00:57:59,119
ideas in there.

934
00:57:59,159 --> 00:58:00,719
Speaker 1: How would I respond to some sort.

935
00:58:00,559 --> 00:58:02,559
Speaker 2: Of argument like that, Well, I mean, this is always

936
00:58:02,639 --> 00:58:06,000
what Gnostics say, But when you really get into the

937
00:58:06,719 --> 00:58:11,119
Gnostic worldview, you'll find out that it's like really contradictory

938
00:58:11,199 --> 00:58:15,960
and really arbitrary. For one, there's not one Gnostic worldview.

939
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,639
There's not a Gnostic tradition. There's a ton of different

940
00:58:19,159 --> 00:58:22,679
Gnostic sects from the first, second, third century, and they're

941
00:58:22,679 --> 00:58:26,719
all over the place. They range from extreme asceticism to

942
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:31,639
extreme indulgence to ritual magic. I mean, they're essentially all

943
00:58:31,719 --> 00:58:33,800
over the place. If you read the first few hundred

944
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:38,159
pages of Saint Aaronais's Against Heresies, the first few hundred

945
00:58:38,159 --> 00:58:40,400
pages is him listing all the Gnostic sects of the

946
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:43,639
second century. So there's not a Gnosticism. So the first

947
00:58:43,679 --> 00:58:46,199
thing I would go about trying to demonstrate to this

948
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:50,000
person is that ultimately the position that he's got is

949
00:58:50,239 --> 00:58:55,000
itself very relativistic. And I've never met a Gnostic who's

950
00:58:55,039 --> 00:58:58,519
not a relativist. Doesn't mean there might not be one

951
00:58:58,559 --> 00:59:01,800
out there that believes and objective morals, But if your

952
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:06,000
position is a relativistic, you know, moral framework, it's pretty

953
00:59:06,039 --> 00:59:08,239
easy to refute that. So I would just point out

954
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:12,159
do a basic presup of his ethics and morals as relativistic.

955
00:59:12,719 --> 00:59:15,599
And if the morals and the ethics are relativistic, then

956
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:20,079
is gnosticism also relativistic. So if it's relativistic, then it's

957
00:59:20,119 --> 00:59:23,400
not true. To be true requires it to have universal

958
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:27,000
truth value, and if gnostissism is relativistic, then it doesn't

959
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:30,320
have that. It's it's a fundamental epistemic contradiction.

960
00:59:35,039 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you. Any resources that you can guide me towards.

961
00:59:37,559 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 2: For extra stuff to learn, Yeah, I've done. I did

962
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,960
a talk on Aeronaus against heresies, and I have two

963
00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:46,000
talks on my channel that are old critiquing gnosticism. So

964
00:59:46,119 --> 00:59:49,199
just look up Jay Dyer gnosticism. I also did a

965
00:59:49,239 --> 00:59:52,840
whole talk on Yarslav Pelicon's Volume one, which covers the

966
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,719
history of these early sex and gnostics. It's a it's

967
00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:04,159
a classic sort of seminary text. Peter Putt teach us. Uh,

968
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:08,480
what's up, dude? What's a hook?

969
01:00:08,559 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 1: Doude?

970
01:00:10,719 --> 01:00:12,559
Speaker 2: Is this your first time on the internet?

971
01:00:20,119 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: Jape, Hey this is doctor Pete.

972
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,559
Speaker 20: I don't know this talk like jumped for a few seconds,

973
01:00:25,599 --> 01:00:26,920
but hey, thanks for having me.

974
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:28,519
Speaker 1: I'm a cradle orthodox.

975
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,679
Speaker 20: One of the comments on sort of the moving target

976
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:35,480
of the understanding of marriage and the Roman Catholic Church.

977
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 1: You know, recently we've heard of them.

978
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 20: Discussing topics about homosexual marriage, transgender concepts.

979
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:44,239
Speaker 11: As an Orthodox Christian.

980
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 20: I never really quite understood a lot of these discussions.

981
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:50,679
Some rules don't seem that we can break. Others seem

982
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,840
like they've they've broken them unnecessarily. I think back to

983
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,280
why and how priests used to marry the Roman Catholic Church.

984
01:00:57,719 --> 01:00:59,760
I can tell you my father was an eye surgeon

985
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:00,800
and a priest.

986
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:02,039
Speaker 1: And he had five sons.

987
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:07,719
Speaker 20: And I don't know why, in this age of secularism, humanism,

988
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:10,840
that we don't just go back to our roots and

989
01:01:11,159 --> 01:01:15,599
free a billion Catholics from having to endlessly defend a

990
01:01:15,719 --> 01:01:19,840
fallen position, which is sort of putting priesthood.

991
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:21,559
Speaker 1: Against the sacrament of marriage.

992
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:24,679
Speaker 20: And I'm just trying to understand the mindset of Roman

993
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,880
Catholic in terms of why, why that's not something they're

994
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:30,280
willing to compromise on. When you consider that they're willing

995
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:34,079
to compromise on, you know, well, let's just say making

996
01:01:34,159 --> 01:01:35,679
room for homosexual marriage.

997
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:38,519
Speaker 2: In the Christian Church. That's a great point. Yeah, if

998
01:01:38,559 --> 01:01:41,880
you're going to compromise, or from what you see as compromise,

999
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,599
would why would you not go back to the tradition,

1000
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,800
which is actually the old, ancient tradition of married priests.

1001
01:01:50,039 --> 01:01:53,079
I think most Roman Catholics don't even know that. They

1002
01:01:53,159 --> 01:01:56,440
don't realize that. They think that that's a Protestant argument,

1003
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:58,280
So they hear something like that and they think, oh,

1004
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,880
that's Protestant, So they just assume kind of default, that

1005
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:07,239
that married priests are abnormal when they're actually the normal,

1006
01:02:07,719 --> 01:02:10,840
you know, ancient normal state. They also aren't aware that

1007
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,559
the Council of Trello affirms married priests, and that the

1008
01:02:13,599 --> 01:02:17,519
sixth and seventh Councils affirm Trullo. And then they don't

1009
01:02:17,559 --> 01:02:20,760
even realize that the papacy, especially had the seventh Ecumenical

1010
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,960
Council also by default a firm Trullo. So at one

1011
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:27,159
point they did a firm married priest and then didn't.

1012
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,760
So they're just not aware of and they're usually very

1013
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:33,519
reticent to accept any kind of historical arguments like this

1014
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,960
because it's it's an und They see it as an

1015
01:02:37,039 --> 01:02:41,880
unfalsifiable system. Uh So, and you know, the reality is,

1016
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:43,480
and I was I was a trad cat I was

1017
01:02:43,519 --> 01:02:46,039
in that world for almost a decade. The reality is

1018
01:02:46,119 --> 01:02:49,599
that it's like all over the place. There's not really

1019
01:02:49,719 --> 01:02:52,519
a Roman Catholicism. The only thing that quote unites them

1020
01:02:52,639 --> 01:02:57,599
is this verbal acceptance of being Catholic. When you know,

1021
01:02:57,760 --> 01:02:59,639
you can have one guy over here who thinks that

1022
01:02:59,719 --> 01:03:02,719
the Sades are true Catholicism, and you got James Martin

1023
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:04,760
over here who thinks that, you know, the essence of

1024
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:08,800
with Allism is Skittle's marriage. So they're all over the place.

1025
01:03:10,679 --> 01:03:12,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just seems like low hanging fruit.

1026
01:03:13,039 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 20: You know, like in order for us to embrace the

1027
01:03:15,039 --> 01:03:17,559
twenty first century and like move forward to more substance

1028
01:03:17,599 --> 01:03:21,360
of discussions, can we just solve this marriage dilemma resulting

1029
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:26,480
in so much carnage and and allow Christians to kind

1030
01:03:26,519 --> 01:03:27,599
of clean themselves off.

1031
01:03:27,519 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 1: And move on to higher end and topics. Right, But

1032
01:03:31,519 --> 01:03:33,000
you know, I just it just it reminds me of

1033
01:03:33,039 --> 01:03:33,840
when Kamala.

1034
01:03:33,559 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 20: Harris was asked, you know, are there any mistakes you've

1035
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:38,039
made over the last four years, and she said I

1036
01:03:38,039 --> 01:03:40,199
couldn't think of any. I just I just feel like

1037
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:44,920
it's so disingenuous, and when there's something so important and meaningful,

1038
01:03:46,159 --> 01:03:50,280
why why not just take that off the table from discussion.

1039
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 2: And also it's you know, it's a great point. Thank

1040
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:56,599
you for your questions. And also I think they you know,

1041
01:03:56,719 --> 01:03:58,760
it's not so much the Catholics sort of on the

1042
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:02,639
ground or the precis. It's the fact that the Vatican,

1043
01:04:02,719 --> 01:04:06,880
in my view, is a captured institution for the global elite.

1044
01:04:07,159 --> 01:04:10,159
So they're not going to make any moves back in

1045
01:04:10,239 --> 01:04:14,519
the direction of wholesome integrity, family and all that because

1046
01:04:14,519 --> 01:04:19,199
they're they're captive to a greater geopolitical power which absolutely

1047
01:04:19,239 --> 01:04:31,320
has no interest in the wholesome hades. What's up, yop,

1048
01:04:32,079 --> 01:04:32,800
what's on your mind?

1049
01:04:34,239 --> 01:04:34,719
Speaker 1: Can you hear me?

1050
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:39,599
Speaker 7: Yeah, just from the other guy who was talking about

1051
01:04:39,679 --> 01:04:42,400
the narcissism for his friend, I did want to bring

1052
01:04:42,519 --> 01:04:46,079
up that and also a great argument against narcissism if

1053
01:04:46,079 --> 01:04:48,800
you want to hit it from like a more historical

1054
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:52,559
view that he was talking about the Gospel of Thomas

1055
01:04:52,599 --> 01:04:55,599
and all the other gospels, but all of our New

1056
01:04:55,679 --> 01:04:59,360
Testament gospels can be actually we're actually quoted by a

1057
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:03,079
really early church fathers near around one hundred eighty. All

1058
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:08,800
of the Gnostic gospels were quoted. We didn't even exist

1059
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:12,800
until about three hundred eighty or four hundred eighty after.

1060
01:05:13,719 --> 01:05:16,840
So even if you were to, he doesn't think you're

1061
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,840
pre He doesn't go for the precept. None of the

1062
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:23,280
Nastic Gospels are anywhere near the time of the Church Fathers.

1063
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:25,039
There are hundreds of years after.

1064
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, great, great point. Yeah, thank you. And also like

1065
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:30,840
the stories that you read in there are kind of

1066
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:33,840
wacko and crazy, but I mean you have basically some

1067
01:05:34,039 --> 01:05:37,679
of those making their way into the Quran. So great point.

1068
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:44,199
Classic husband. What's up to the trad? Cats in the chat?

1069
01:05:45,519 --> 01:05:45,840
Call in?

1070
01:05:49,239 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 1: Hey?

1071
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 2: What's on your mind?

1072
01:05:51,039 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 1: Maw you there?

1073
01:05:57,679 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 2: Can you hear me? Hey, Jamie, you're cutting out?

1074
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 1: Bro?

1075
01:06:05,199 --> 01:06:08,760
Speaker 2: Maybe call back? Call back in? Pop out, pop back

1076
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:12,320
in because we can't hear you. Tribe called Jake, what's up, dude?

1077
01:06:16,119 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 21: You know?

1078
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:17,159
Speaker 1: Sorry?

1079
01:06:17,599 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 5: I thought you called somebody else.

1080
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:20,119
Speaker 1: I didn't realize you were calling me.

1081
01:06:20,159 --> 01:06:22,719
Speaker 2: How you doing, Jays? Hey?

1082
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:23,639
Speaker 12: I had a question.

1083
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,559
Speaker 22: I was debating a friend, one of my you know,

1084
01:06:26,679 --> 01:06:32,239
previous Protestant friends. And from what I understand after listening

1085
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,159
to a lot of your content on Protestantism, there's like

1086
01:06:35,239 --> 01:06:39,480
a it's like you make the case that mainly it's

1087
01:06:39,599 --> 01:06:45,280
issues with the position start from an epistemological perspective, and

1088
01:06:45,559 --> 01:06:48,719
and you kind of attack the Protestant position.

1089
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 2: Well sometimes, I mean sometimes I argue from history. Uh

1090
01:06:52,239 --> 01:06:54,760
so it just kind of depends on what Protestant I'm

1091
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:55,119
talking to.

1092
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:57,840
Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, that that's actually a good point.

1093
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 2: Go ahead, are you there? Hello?

1094
01:07:07,559 --> 01:07:09,679
Speaker 1: Hello? Yeah, I can hear me.

1095
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:18,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead. So it looks people's connections are going out,

1096
01:07:18,599 --> 01:07:20,760
so maybe pop back out, pop back in. I'll come

1097
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:22,719
back to you the last two guys. El I asked

1098
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:25,440
five dollars? Have you ever covered the incidents at Waco

1099
01:07:25,599 --> 01:07:28,599
Reby Ridge and Okay see Uh yeah, but it's been

1100
01:07:28,639 --> 01:07:34,199
many years. As we talked about that, I remember the

1101
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:36,840
Terrence Yankee story is spooky and memory hole. Do you

1102
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:38,800
mean spooky in the sense of like being a spook

1103
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:39,800
or just creepy?

1104
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:40,920
Speaker 23: Uh?

1105
01:07:42,039 --> 01:07:42,519
Speaker 1: The uh?

1106
01:07:45,039 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 2: What's the Oka See documentary? It's a really good documentary

1107
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:52,360
they put out maybe ten years ago. And I'm going

1108
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:54,119
blank on that, but that one was a good when

1109
01:07:54,119 --> 01:07:56,880
everybody watched that. But yeah, I mean I've been listening

1110
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:59,119
to Lord Voldemort since two thousand and three, so I

1111
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:01,440
was there for all that period when he covered all

1112
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:07,239
that stuff. Extensively. Also, if you can find it. One

1113
01:08:07,239 --> 01:08:11,320
of the best things on OKAC is James Corbett's deep

1114
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:15,760
dive into Tim McVay. That's a really important one. I

1115
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:18,520
don't know all the details of Ruby Ridge. I know

1116
01:08:19,039 --> 01:08:22,000
a decent amount about Waco. I remember one of the

1117
01:08:22,039 --> 01:08:25,279
first documentaries I watched from Lord Valdemore was Wake Up

1118
01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:32,880
or Waco. Yeah, wake Up or Waco. I know a

1119
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:34,560
little bit about Ruby Ridge, but not a whole lot,

1120
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:37,600
but thank you for that. Yeah, just check out Corbett's

1121
01:08:39,239 --> 01:08:42,199
thing on McVeigh and how he was sheep dipped in

1122
01:08:42,359 --> 01:08:47,199
the what is the I don't can't remember that OKAC documentary,

1123
01:08:47,239 --> 01:08:50,119
but it's really good. Haiti's ond at thirty dollars day,

1124
01:08:50,119 --> 01:08:52,640
I envoid. You enjoyed your video with Dean about Book

1125
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:58,840
of Revelation, specifically the point of learning from those people

1126
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:01,399
who are non Orthodox. Well, we shouldn't be surprised. I

1127
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:03,279
mean this is if you read the Church Fathers, this

1128
01:09:03,359 --> 01:09:05,840
is pretty common. I mean, you know, Basil said you

1129
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:09,359
should get a classical education. Basil and the Cappadocians relied

1130
01:09:09,399 --> 01:09:12,680
heavily on origin, even though everybody knows Origin was heterodox.

1131
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:20,680
Augustine relied heavily on the commentaries of Tico the Donatist.

1132
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:25,279
So this is very common, and many people have, you know,

1133
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:28,079
read Totillian, Tourtolian ended up heterodox. It doesn't mean that

1134
01:09:28,159 --> 01:09:32,680
we can't, you know, read and gain insights from Tertullian.

1135
01:09:33,199 --> 01:09:36,880
And I mean same principle for Plato and Aristotle. I

1136
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:44,199
mean John Damascus, Saint Maximus, they read Porphyry, Plato, Aristotle,

1137
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:48,279
they read all these guys and gleaned great points. If

1138
01:09:48,279 --> 01:09:50,359
you read Fount of Knowledge by Saint John Dmascus, it

1139
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:53,960
relies heavily on Aristotle. So the idea that like we

1140
01:09:54,199 --> 01:09:56,720
never read anything but an orthonox person it is just

1141
01:09:56,840 --> 01:09:59,920
kind of a weird. It's almost like a weird Protestant

1142
01:10:00,159 --> 01:10:03,800
to solo scripture attitude, which is just not even accurate

1143
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:07,439
or historical. I say this because I was Orthodox, and

1144
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:10,079
I got in Orthodoxy from watching a lot of doctor

1145
01:10:10,199 --> 01:10:12,840
Michael Heiser. Yeah, Michael Heiser. A lot of people don't

1146
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:14,960
know this. He was a subscriber to my website for

1147
01:10:15,119 --> 01:10:20,600
many years, and although we never chatted, I don't think

1148
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:22,640
we ever. There might have been an email at one point,

1149
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:25,319
but we never chatted personally. I always intended to get

1150
01:10:25,399 --> 01:10:27,439
him on to do a podcast before he passed away.

1151
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:32,319
But yeah, I read doctor Heiser over the years. I

1152
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:36,199
remember reading his Divine Council stuff, maybe even as early

1153
01:10:36,239 --> 01:10:40,399
as like two thousand and seven. So yeah, I think

1154
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:44,560
he was very insightful for his exegesis. I mean, I've

1155
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:47,960
got liturgical I've got books back here by Anglican liturgical

1156
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,520
scholars and historians. I've got books by UNI eight historians

1157
01:10:51,560 --> 01:11:01,520
and scholars. I mean, it's kind of obvious that there

1158
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:05,359
are truths and people have truths and wisdom and knowledge

1159
01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:10,720
even outside of the Orthodox Church. Bill Ward ten dollars.

1160
01:11:11,319 --> 01:11:13,760
There are those who say that the idea of Mary's

1161
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:17,399
perpetual virginity comes from apocryphal texts. Well, it's true that

1162
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:21,119
the pro Evangelica James and these kind of things are

1163
01:11:21,199 --> 01:11:24,800
not quote in the canon. But from the Orthodox vantage point,

1164
01:11:25,159 --> 01:11:29,319
that's not really a problem because for us, there are traditions,

1165
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:32,319
and there are true traditions outside of the canonical texts.

1166
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:35,880
So there might, for example, be an oral tradition that's

1167
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:39,479
outside of the written Biblical texts that was passed down

1168
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:43,520
and maybe somebody recorded it in the proto Evangelic of

1169
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:45,680
James or some other thing where it got recorded in

1170
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:49,000
a liturgical setting or a poem or whatever. And so

1171
01:11:49,359 --> 01:11:52,479
although we wouldn't necessarily claim the entire document or the

1172
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:58,159
entire noncnonical texts as part of the tradition, those texts

1173
01:11:58,199 --> 01:12:02,239
can have elements of tradition. Sample the Dedicay has true

1174
01:12:02,279 --> 01:12:04,880
elements of tradition, But we don't accept everything in the Dedicay, right,

1175
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:07,840
it's not part of the Canonscripture. But many church fathers

1176
01:12:08,319 --> 01:12:12,439
thought that the Dedicay was canonical. Many church fathers thought

1177
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:15,039
First and Second Clement were part of the New Testament.

1178
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:19,399
So even though some of the documents that these tech are,

1179
01:12:19,439 --> 01:12:24,359
these kinds of texts end up being Pseudobograthha or pseudonymous

1180
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:27,520
or outside the canon. The Book of Enich is cited

1181
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:29,720
in the Book of Jude, and so we would say, yeah,

1182
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:33,560
the Book of Enich has true tradition. There's nothing anti

1183
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:36,960
orthodox about that. It's obviously is true. But it doesn't

1184
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:39,680
mean that I have to put Enoch in the Canonscripture

1185
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:42,279
on the same level as the Gospels or Paul.

1186
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:42,640
Speaker 1: Right.

1187
01:12:43,239 --> 01:12:47,119
Speaker 2: So I think in the Orthodox Church we recognize levels

1188
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:51,119
of this stuff. That's why in the liturgy the Gospels

1189
01:12:51,159 --> 01:12:54,239
are given a place above Paul and above the Old Testament.

1190
01:12:54,399 --> 01:12:57,399
So there's levels to this, and usually the people that

1191
01:12:57,560 --> 01:12:59,359
say this kind of stuff, it's just really based on

1192
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:03,880
kind of really low tier Protestant objections. But great question,

1193
01:13:04,039 --> 01:13:08,399
bill Ward. They say the concept was created around the

1194
01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:10,720
year three hundred. The problem with this argument from a

1195
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:13,920
Protestant is that this cuts both ways because if you're

1196
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:17,520
going to require a written proof of a document of

1197
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:20,560
a doctrine post eighty three hundred, which is what the

1198
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:23,079
argument assumes that in other words of Protestant saying, I'm

1199
01:13:23,119 --> 01:13:27,720
not going to believe anything from this patristic period unless

1200
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:30,239
there's quote written evidence after the year three hundred or

1201
01:13:30,239 --> 01:13:35,560
something like this, there's no where's the Protestant canon prior

1202
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:39,680
to the year three hundred. It doesn't exist. So you

1203
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:42,079
see how that cuts both ways, and that what that

1204
01:13:42,199 --> 01:13:44,920
shows is that the Protestant doesn't actually hold to that principle.

1205
01:13:45,239 --> 01:13:48,199
It's a double standard that he's erected to where he's saying, well,

1206
01:13:48,239 --> 01:13:52,279
i have my Protestant canon, which doesn't have any real

1207
01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:56,359
hardcore evidence for existing prior to the year three hundred,

1208
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:58,760
but I'm going to require that you give me the

1209
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:01,800
written textual evidence for perpetual virginity at Mary prior to

1210
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:04,680
three hundred. So you see, it's an arbitrary double standard.

1211
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:07,439
Their own position doesn't have that which is built on

1212
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:10,800
soul scripture for the most part, storm the cat ten dollars.

1213
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:13,079
I started reading the Book of Revelation Explaining trilogy by

1214
01:14:13,159 --> 01:14:16,199
James Jordan Dean Ardel. That's really good. Yeah, for those

1215
01:14:16,279 --> 01:14:18,640
that are interested. We did do this interview the other day.

1216
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:22,239
My godfather has spent the last four years kind of

1217
01:14:22,319 --> 01:14:27,399
collating the lectures of James Jordan over the years on

1218
01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:31,039
the Book of Revelation into this three volume series Revelation

1219
01:14:31,119 --> 01:14:35,279
Explain which is available at his website deanw Arnold dot com.

1220
01:14:35,319 --> 01:14:37,439
And if you go over to the interview that we did,

1221
01:14:38,079 --> 01:14:41,319
the book links are in the show description. I've not

1222
01:14:41,439 --> 01:14:43,119
had a chance yet to get to it because I'm

1223
01:14:43,159 --> 01:14:45,319
reading this espionage book that we're going to cover next.

1224
01:14:45,359 --> 01:14:48,439
I'm almost halfway through it, Black Gold Spies, which is

1225
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:51,920
really really good and it actually relates to theology because

1226
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:56,960
a lot of these spies used religious cover. So but

1227
01:14:57,039 --> 01:15:01,279
I do look forward to getting into Dean's Dean's presentation

1228
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:04,239
of James short because Dean add it did a lot

1229
01:15:04,279 --> 01:15:09,640
of editing. Fun seven seven seven j What are your

1230
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:12,159
thoughts on the Dark Soul series. It's very lore heavy

1231
01:15:12,199 --> 01:15:15,359
and esoteric. I tried playing it, and I'm sorry. I mean,

1232
01:15:16,079 --> 01:15:17,760
so there's a couple of things going on here when

1233
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:19,319
it comes to I saw. I'm not a huge gamer,

1234
01:15:19,399 --> 01:15:22,680
but I like to, you know, maybe on maybe one

1235
01:15:23,079 --> 01:15:26,079
night a week, I unwind. And this is really only

1236
01:15:26,119 --> 01:15:27,960
when it's winter and it's freezing and you can't do

1237
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:30,600
anything outside. I might for a night or two a

1238
01:15:30,680 --> 01:15:33,920
week unwined with a video game. Usually it's something that

1239
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:38,159
is not infinite plays, do you know what I mean? Like,

1240
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:41,880
I like a game I can beat in ten twenty

1241
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:44,359
thirty hours, which is the way they used to make

1242
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:46,680
video games, because I don't want to live my life

1243
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:48,880
in a freaking video game. So, for example, I was

1244
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:52,359
interested in the new Zelda, but then I noticed that, oh,

1245
01:15:52,399 --> 01:15:55,279
this actually has like hundreds of hours of playtime more

1246
01:15:55,479 --> 01:15:58,319
than the previous Zelda. Well, I'm not I don't My

1247
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,119
time is valuable. I'm not gonna I don't want to

1248
01:16:01,239 --> 01:16:04,840
put hundreds of hours into tiers of the Kingdom or whatever.

1249
01:16:05,279 --> 01:16:07,680
It's just too much, dude. Just give me a freaking

1250
01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:12,600
Drake's Quest uncharted. You know, tomb Raider eat Resident Evil

1251
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:14,479
that I can beat in eight hours. That's fun to me.

1252
01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:18,880
And also, I mean Black Ops is fun, but I mean, honestly,

1253
01:16:19,079 --> 01:16:23,199
like it's so addictive, like you just get addicted to

1254
01:16:23,279 --> 01:16:27,920
sitting there and you know, trying to trying to get

1255
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:30,560
headshots for like eight hours. It's like, I just can't

1256
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:32,880
do that, Like this, My time is too valuable to

1257
01:16:33,479 --> 01:16:37,319
blow it on the even Black Ops. So when you

1258
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:40,520
say Dark Soul series, I remember trying out one of

1259
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:43,840
them and like, if it's gonna take me hours just

1260
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:47,319
to figure out the freaking mechanisms and controls, I mean,

1261
01:16:47,359 --> 01:16:48,199
it's just too much.

1262
01:16:48,359 --> 01:16:48,479
Speaker 1: Man.

1263
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:52,079
Speaker 2: I can't. Like video games have gotten way too dorky

1264
01:16:52,239 --> 01:16:55,319
and complex, and they used to be fun. I'd rather

1265
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:58,760
just play Mario Kart with Jamie. That's way more fun

1266
01:16:59,439 --> 01:17:05,920
than sapping five thousand hours into some you know, soy realm,

1267
01:17:06,119 --> 01:17:08,960
I'm just joking. I mean, I've always liked role playing games.

1268
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:11,560
I've always played. I played every Final Fantasy, so I

1269
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:15,520
get it. I understand Storm the Cat five dollars do

1270
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:18,760
you think the verses were Paul rebukes the Judaizers are

1271
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:21,840
sufficient to refute modern dispensationalists. You know what, that's a

1272
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:26,439
great point, I mean ideal, like, yeah, basically you would

1273
01:17:26,439 --> 01:17:29,880
think they would be. And you know, even when I

1274
01:17:30,039 --> 01:17:32,920
was a kind of a nube, you know, reading the

1275
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:36,359
Bible for the first time ages eighteen, nineteen twenty, I

1276
01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:39,039
actually had a dispensation. I've got my skillfild study Bible

1277
01:17:39,039 --> 01:17:43,319
over there. Still I remember even being like struggling with

1278
01:17:43,399 --> 01:17:47,199
some of those verses. I remember like, like, what what

1279
01:17:47,720 --> 01:17:51,319
if dispensationalism is true? Why is Paul speaking this way

1280
01:17:51,399 --> 01:17:53,119
in these in these texts? It's just it was it

1281
01:17:53,239 --> 01:17:56,039
was a struggle. Uh So I think that's a really

1282
01:17:56,319 --> 01:17:58,199
key point, storing the cat. But you know what's funny

1283
01:17:58,199 --> 01:18:01,840
about theology is that a lot of times the stuff

1284
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:09,399
that you would think is clear insufficient. A lot of

1285
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:12,479
times it isn't. Quantum comment are five dollars? What's the

1286
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:16,520
response to the Protestant that says, so scripture is wrong?

1287
01:18:18,079 --> 01:18:20,119
Are they even Protestant at that point? Well, that's a

1288
01:18:20,119 --> 01:18:23,760
good point. I mean, if a Protestant is saying solo

1289
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:27,560
scripture is wrong, then they're departing from the Classical Reformation tradition.

1290
01:18:28,199 --> 01:18:32,000
So you know, you're not really Protestant if you don't

1291
01:18:32,039 --> 01:18:35,840
believe in the solos. I would argue you're something else. Right,

1292
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:38,720
Maybe you're moving in the direction of High Church Anglican

1293
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:41,359
or something like that, which is what we've seen a

1294
01:18:41,399 --> 01:18:43,680
lot of Protestants like, right, like James Jordan. Right, James

1295
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:49,960
Jordan was at one point hardcore Calvinists, you know, reform dude.

1296
01:18:50,119 --> 01:18:53,000
And then you know, over time he's moving and now

1297
01:18:53,039 --> 01:18:57,319
he's wearing he wears a collar, and he's dressing up

1298
01:18:57,439 --> 01:18:59,800
like he's an Anglican. And you know, even though he's

1299
01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:02,439
not action Anglican, you would think he's an Anglican by

1300
01:19:02,439 --> 01:19:06,640
the way he looks and dresses right, and he wants liturgy,

1301
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:15,079
and he wants this and that. So I mean I would.

1302
01:19:15,119 --> 01:19:17,039
I would. So if a Protestant said, well, look, I

1303
01:19:17,039 --> 01:19:20,159
don't believe in sold scripture, so why should I believe,

1304
01:19:20,359 --> 01:19:22,239
I would just say it, Well, then give me a

1305
01:19:22,319 --> 01:19:25,840
coherent account of where we get the canon and how

1306
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:27,479
that comes about, right, I mean, in other words, you

1307
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:30,479
can't What you eventually learn is that you can't divorce

1308
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:33,960
the Bible from history. And if you can't divorce the

1309
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:37,439
Bible from history, then it's intimately necessarily bound up with

1310
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:40,520
the community that put it together. And so then the

1311
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:44,439
question is logically, well, what was that community, what was

1312
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:47,520
the belief system of that community? Well, guess what, it's

1313
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:50,680
not Protestant. There are no Protestants in the first thousand years.

1314
01:19:51,079 --> 01:19:54,159
And that's the community essentially that puts together the Bible.

1315
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:58,359
So sounds like your buddy quantum commenter is actually on

1316
01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:00,720
the right track. California p up or two dollars and

1317
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:02,680
twenty two cents. Here are some shekels for your time.

1318
01:20:03,399 --> 01:20:08,319
Thank you appreciate that. Clarity conversation five dollars. Do you

1319
01:20:08,399 --> 01:20:10,920
know about this dude called truth unedited on YouTube?

1320
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:11,319
Speaker 1: I do not.

1321
01:20:11,880 --> 01:20:14,560
Speaker 2: He has seven hundred fifty thousand subs and he's Hebrew roots.

1322
01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:23,039
Oh well, here is my issue. Here's my challenge to you,

1323
01:20:25,199 --> 01:20:29,000
Truth Unedited. I will challenge you to debate. He put

1324
01:20:29,039 --> 01:20:31,039
out a video against all the church fathers. You should

1325
01:20:31,079 --> 01:20:33,800
call out this dude for a debate or something like that.

1326
01:20:34,319 --> 01:20:36,319
I used to listen to him before I became Orthodox

1327
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:39,920
many years Jay. Hey, thank you appreciate that. Yeah, Truth unedited,

1328
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:44,800
I challenge you to defend your stupid heresy MKG ten dollars. Jay,

1329
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:46,720
I'm currently doing We're gonna go back to Q and

1330
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:51,239
are in a second or a debate. I'm currently doing

1331
01:20:51,359 --> 01:20:54,199
cover to cover reading of the Bible. I read the

1332
01:20:54,239 --> 01:20:56,560
story Jacob and Esaw. What is your understanding of God

1333
01:20:56,680 --> 01:21:03,600
rewarding Jacob and his mother get Isaac blessing. I read

1334
01:21:04,039 --> 01:21:11,920
a few interpretations. What do you think about this? Well,

1335
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:15,880
I do think Jacob represents Israel, so he and he's

1336
01:21:16,039 --> 01:21:20,119
you know, he gets the name and he's gets the blessing.

1337
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:27,279
Because I think there's something that, you know, prompted God

1338
01:21:27,399 --> 01:21:30,279
to choose the Jews to be the people from whom

1339
01:21:31,239 --> 01:21:36,119
the Messianic line would come. So the purpose of the

1340
01:21:36,239 --> 01:21:39,000
nation of Israel is to produce the Messiah. That's their purpose.

1341
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:42,159
And yeah, there's ancillary purposes in Deuteronomy that they would

1342
01:21:42,199 --> 01:21:44,600
teach the nations and be a guide in the law

1343
01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:47,399
and all that, but they didn't. They really failed at

1344
01:21:47,439 --> 01:21:50,640
that mission. But they did succeed in their ultimate mission,

1345
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:54,920
which was to produce the Messiah. So they are an image.

1346
01:21:55,039 --> 01:21:58,279
Jacob is a kind of an image of Israel and

1347
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:03,079
the people of the Old Covenant, and both for the

1348
01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:07,600
positives and for his flaws. So I think that's the

1349
01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:13,159
that's my initial thoughts on Jacob. Obviously you can go

1350
01:22:13,239 --> 01:22:15,319
a lot deeper. There's a lot of typology, there's a

1351
01:22:15,359 --> 01:22:18,760
lot of symbolism in all of those Genesis stories. But

1352
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:20,479
off the top of my head, I would say that

1353
01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:27,560
that's kind of the first point. Anonymous ten dollars Jay,

1354
01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:29,640
Sorry my phone cut out. I was questioning you to.

1355
01:22:30,319 --> 01:22:33,479
My question was, how would you sum up the epistemic

1356
01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:38,239
issues with the Protestant position. Well, remember that the epistemic

1357
01:22:38,359 --> 01:22:44,439
issues relate to ultimately what we call normative authority. So

1358
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:48,239
we're not making the challenge that a Protestant can't know anything,

1359
01:22:48,359 --> 01:22:51,880
or that a Protestant can't tell you what's true. That's

1360
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:54,239
a bad argument a lot of times. Roman Catholics, for example,

1361
01:22:54,279 --> 01:22:56,079
when they when they debate with a Protestant, they'll say

1362
01:22:56,119 --> 01:22:58,720
something like, you don't have the pope, so you don't

1363
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:01,159
know what doctrines are true. This is a really low tier,

1364
01:23:01,239 --> 01:23:03,279
dumb argument because it just moves the problem back a

1365
01:23:03,359 --> 01:23:07,079
step that assumes that you're interpreting the documents of the

1366
01:23:07,119 --> 01:23:09,960
papacy correctly, right, So owther was a Roman Catholic will

1367
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:12,960
say something like, well, you know you're a Protestant reading

1368
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:15,520
the Bible. That's your private interpretation. How do you know

1369
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:19,000
that interpretation is correct? That's why we have the pope. Well, again,

1370
01:23:19,079 --> 01:23:21,239
that's moving the problem back a step, because now every

1371
01:23:21,279 --> 01:23:24,199
individual Catholic just has more books and stacks of stuff

1372
01:23:24,279 --> 01:23:26,520
to read, much of which is way more boring than

1373
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:28,920
the Bible too, I might add, to try to figure

1374
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:32,039
out what the proper interpretation of the papal documents is.

1375
01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:38,199
So nine percent of the Roman Catholic pop car salesman

1376
01:23:38,239 --> 01:23:42,079
apologist ignore this and just move the problem back a step.

1377
01:23:42,159 --> 01:23:45,279
And smarter Protestants know this and figure it out. And

1378
01:23:45,319 --> 01:23:50,720
they usually make this point right like A, I don't

1379
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:52,840
know who is a smarter Protestant. I don't even I

1380
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:54,359
don't even know if I can even say that there

1381
01:23:54,399 --> 01:23:58,840
are smarter Protestants anymore. Maybe there's not. I'm being silly,

1382
01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:02,279
but if there were a smarter Protestant, they would say

1383
01:24:02,359 --> 01:24:05,479
something like maybe James White even said this at one point,

1384
01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:08,640
who I don't have any respect for or care for

1385
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:10,640
at all, but I think he did make this point

1386
01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:12,359
one time, like, well, don't you have to interpret the

1387
01:24:12,399 --> 01:24:17,119
Protestant documents, I mean the papal documents. So I just

1388
01:24:17,399 --> 01:24:19,880
this is just a really bad objection if you know epistemology.

1389
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:24,399
So I think a better objection to the Protestant position

1390
01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:29,199
is normative authority, which is the point that, well, did

1391
01:24:29,319 --> 01:24:33,039
Jesus actually leave any body of people that have authority

1392
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:38,359
to bind anyone's interpretation? And that's the better way to

1393
01:24:38,399 --> 01:24:41,399
frame it against the Protestant because every Protestant believes that

1394
01:24:42,199 --> 01:24:45,880
they have right of private judgment. Nobody can bind their conscience.

1395
01:24:46,039 --> 01:24:50,000
That's a classical Reformation teaching freedom of conscience, freedom of worship.

1396
01:24:50,039 --> 01:24:52,640
You don't nobody can tell me my reading of the

1397
01:24:52,680 --> 01:24:58,359
Bible's wrong. Well, but did Jesus provide a means to

1398
01:24:59,159 --> 01:25:04,560
solve dispute when there were disagreements? It's kind of like, well,

1399
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:07,359
there's the Constitution, but you need a body of people

1400
01:25:07,399 --> 01:25:10,880
to interpret it, hence the Supreme Court. So is there

1401
01:25:11,039 --> 01:25:15,640
a group of leaders, namely the episcopacy, that can interpret

1402
01:25:15,720 --> 01:25:19,359
these documents with authority? So it's not just can they

1403
01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:21,720
they're the only people who can interpret it. Everybody who

1404
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:23,520
reads the Bible will have to interpret you. Now, you're

1405
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:26,680
just going to interpret it. But when the Church has

1406
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:31,159
disputes and disagreements in history, when they met together in

1407
01:25:31,239 --> 01:25:33,760
councils like Nicia, well clearly they thought they had the

1408
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:37,399
authority to bind people's interpretation, because if you don't believe

1409
01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:41,039
in the Nicene interpretation, it's you're excommunicated, you're an arian,

1410
01:25:41,199 --> 01:25:45,560
you're outside the church. But in the realm of Protestantism,

1411
01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:49,479
it's premised on in the Classical Reformation doctrine, the right

1412
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:52,840
of private interpretation. Nobody has the authority to bind anyone

1413
01:25:52,920 --> 01:25:58,199
to that interpretation. So hence the chaos. That's the better

1414
01:25:58,239 --> 01:26:02,239
way I think to frame the debate with a Protestant

1415
01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:04,840
Classical do you want to try again? Hey, Jamie, could

1416
01:26:04,840 --> 01:26:13,920
you make me a coffee? Jamie? Jamie. She came in

1417
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:16,319
here and I'm mister, what's up?

1418
01:26:16,359 --> 01:26:16,520
Speaker 24: Man?

1419
01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:19,560
Speaker 1: Hey, what's going on? Jack? Can you hear me? Yeah?

1420
01:26:21,439 --> 01:26:26,159
Speaker 24: Yeah, So it seems that the Latins on Axe have

1421
01:26:26,279 --> 01:26:30,159
been absolutely fuming over their little wax figure scandal.

1422
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:32,920
Speaker 2: I haven't even paid attention.

1423
01:26:34,399 --> 01:26:37,039
Speaker 24: Oh yeah, I had one guy just randomly tell me

1424
01:26:37,159 --> 01:26:40,159
that you're actually going to convert back to Catholicism.

1425
01:26:39,600 --> 01:26:40,359
Speaker 1: For the third time.

1426
01:26:41,439 --> 01:26:44,399
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, sure, well let's just add hominem. So no,

1427
01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:47,000
I'll guarantee I'll never be a Roman Catholic again. Why

1428
01:26:47,039 --> 01:26:49,239
would I mean, why would he even say I'd be

1429
01:26:49,319 --> 01:26:54,239
Roman Catholic again? If like that's the thing that I'm

1430
01:26:54,279 --> 01:26:57,920
making fun of, Like I don't know what if I

1431
01:26:58,000 --> 01:26:59,479
was ever converted. I don't know what I would ever

1432
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:02,439
convert to. But I mean it wouldn't it wouldn't be

1433
01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:06,279
to this entity that's like openly bringing in people to

1434
01:27:06,359 --> 01:27:10,720
destroy the country. And I'm talking about the Inga, the

1435
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:13,199
Catholic NGOs that are open borders.

1436
01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:18,279
Speaker 24: Right, Yeah, That's actually what I was gonna ask you about, is.

1437
01:27:18,359 --> 01:27:19,319
Speaker 1: That it seems that.

1438
01:27:21,159 --> 01:27:24,600
Speaker 25: The calls for master legal immigration as well as all

1439
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:28,720
the Catholic NGOs are pushing for this, but at the

1440
01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:32,800
same time they're doing things like calling out the persecution

1441
01:27:33,079 --> 01:27:35,640
of the Canonical Church in Ukraine.

1442
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:42,560
Speaker 2: Well, the there's nothing that requires evil people to be consistent.

1443
01:27:43,199 --> 01:27:46,520
So the fact that you know, Francis throws a bone

1444
01:27:46,640 --> 01:27:49,479
to trads here and there, which is just I mean,

1445
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:53,359
the Vatican's always done this. Now, what he's talking about

1446
01:27:53,439 --> 01:27:56,119
for those that are not on X was some profile

1447
01:27:57,079 --> 01:27:59,439
this annoying profile that I ended up trying to debate with.

1448
01:28:00,039 --> 01:28:02,199
He never made an argument, He just like restated the

1449
01:28:02,279 --> 01:28:06,800
Roman Catholic position. So people, you can look this up.

1450
01:28:06,880 --> 01:28:09,479
This is not me, like I'm not making You're gonna

1451
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:11,439
see how the Roman Catholics make this point. Right, So

1452
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:13,840
he tried to say, oh, look look at the incorruptible

1453
01:28:14,159 --> 01:28:17,319
Roman Catholic saints. So you have this gamer kid who

1454
01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:21,560
was just canonized then supposedly Vincent de Paul, John Bosco,

1455
01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:24,479
and Padre Pio. Right, so oh, look here the proof

1456
01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:28,960
of Roman Catholicism as a miraculous institution, because look, these

1457
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:33,800
people haven't decayed, they haven't decomposed. Well did you know

1458
01:28:34,319 --> 01:28:40,680
that as this Roman Catholic underneath here admits Vincent de

1459
01:28:40,760 --> 01:28:45,560
Paul's face is encased in a wax mask. Carlo Acutus

1460
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:50,199
is also covered in wax, as is Saint Bosco, John Bosco,

1461
01:28:50,399 --> 01:28:54,119
Padre Pio is covered in a silicone mask. I believe

1462
01:28:54,159 --> 01:28:56,760
these people are holy, but we have to recognize that

1463
01:28:56,880 --> 01:29:01,279
it is admitted that they're all preserved in wax encasements

1464
01:29:01,359 --> 01:29:04,680
and even silicon. So I'm sorry, but that's not an

1465
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:09,520
incorruptible and that's why I was making the jokes that, oh,

1466
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:12,359
I guess that makes Taylor Swift now, you know, the

1467
01:29:13,159 --> 01:29:16,039
next saint to be canonized, because look there, she's incorruptible,

1468
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:21,680
right or people were putting pictures of linen up. Linen's

1469
01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:25,039
encased in wax. I mean, it's just like such a

1470
01:29:25,199 --> 01:29:29,640
low tier bizarre thing. If Roman Catholic's realize that it's

1471
01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:32,680
admitted that they're encased in silicon and wax, So why

1472
01:29:32,680 --> 01:29:35,680
would I accept that as a miracle that this is

1473
01:29:36,199 --> 01:29:45,560
you know, uh, it's not incorruptibility. This is ridiculous, are

1474
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:45,880
you there?

1475
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:52,239
Speaker 24: Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's not even like necessarily what

1476
01:29:52,359 --> 01:29:55,000
you call it requirement for someone to be a saying.

1477
01:29:55,039 --> 01:29:55,840
Speaker 1: But they're really.

1478
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:58,840
Speaker 24: Levying on it that that look how cool and important

1479
01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:01,520
it is and straight up looks like it's from a

1480
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:02,319
wax museum.

1481
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:05,399
Speaker 2: No, but you understand that the Roman Callolicy church admits

1482
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:09,399
they in case they're incorruptibles in wax and silicon. It's

1483
01:30:09,439 --> 01:30:12,560
not a conspiracy theory, it's not an atheist objection. They

1484
01:30:12,600 --> 01:30:15,880
admit they do this. Just look it up. The other

1485
01:30:16,039 --> 01:30:18,760
Roman Catholics are admitting they do this, and this guy

1486
01:30:19,159 --> 01:30:22,520
is saying I almost left Catholicism when I found out

1487
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:27,359
that the that these are wax encased people, they're not

1488
01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:32,439
necessarily incorruptible. And the guys, the guy who posted it said, well,

1489
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:39,960
but they're incorruptible underneath the wax. That's how do we know.

1490
01:30:40,159 --> 01:30:43,199
I mean, that's okay, sure, that's your assertion, But I mean,

1491
01:30:43,279 --> 01:30:47,560
aren't there ancient Egyptian they find like embalmed mummies that

1492
01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:52,640
looked very well preserved for centuries of you know, millennia

1493
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:55,479
of being in a sarcophagus. I mean, does that mean

1494
01:30:55,560 --> 01:30:58,760
that they're incorruptible mummy saying we've got to worship Pharaoh now,

1495
01:30:59,119 --> 01:31:02,880
thank you. It's just a stupid argument.

1496
01:31:06,119 --> 01:31:09,239
Speaker 24: The Cavean that they find like frozen inside of rivers.

1497
01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:13,279
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there you go. So Saint Saint Caveman, saint

1498
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:18,720
in Sino Man. Right, we got a Brendan Fraser is

1499
01:31:19,199 --> 01:31:22,880
a saint now because he was in Sino Man. Saint

1500
01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:25,840
Brendan Fraser Caveman, pray for us. Yeah, great, points up.

1501
01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:30,359
I actually forgot about all of this Twitter nonsense, and

1502
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:34,600
I guess it's because this guy's we got half a

1503
01:31:34,640 --> 01:31:39,359
million views on this, only I thought it had more comments,

1504
01:31:39,399 --> 01:31:40,840
but it was one hundred and sixty two, which is

1505
01:31:40,880 --> 01:31:45,279
a pretty good amount of comments. But I mean, I look,

1506
01:31:47,600 --> 01:31:52,920
it's kind of like the apparition stuff, right, So does

1507
01:31:52,960 --> 01:31:55,600
an apparition prove wrong Catholicism? I mean, if it does,

1508
01:31:56,279 --> 01:32:01,039
then does it prove Coptic Christianity? And they never they

1509
01:32:01,159 --> 01:32:03,119
never give you an answer to that. They just say, well,

1510
01:32:05,199 --> 01:32:10,000
Mary is trying to make them Catholic? Where did when

1511
01:32:10,039 --> 01:32:12,279
did Mary try to make them Catholic in his IU

1512
01:32:12,359 --> 01:32:15,560
and apparitions? None of the Coptics became Catholic from that.

1513
01:32:17,880 --> 01:32:21,840
But yeah, great point. I forgot about all the St.

1514
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:28,520
Madam Tussaud's a Saint factory over there at Rome. Uh dude,

1515
01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:31,880
I went to Ripley's, believe it or not. I didn't

1516
01:32:31,880 --> 01:32:33,960
even realize in I was in the presence of relics.

1517
01:32:34,760 --> 01:32:37,199
Uh y'all ever been to the thing out in the desert?

1518
01:32:37,239 --> 01:32:40,479
And if you're when you're driving to New Mexico and Arizona.

1519
01:32:41,199 --> 01:32:43,199
When you're driving through New Mexico and Arizona, you start

1520
01:32:43,199 --> 01:32:49,680
seeing all these billboards about the thang, right, and then

1521
01:32:49,760 --> 01:32:54,960
you pay a dollar to go see the thing. While

1522
01:32:54,960 --> 01:32:56,760
you're driving out to California. Right this, this is it

1523
01:32:56,920 --> 01:33:01,680
right here. See this, and then when you you see

1524
01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:06,199
that glass encasement right there next to that uh gorilla

1525
01:33:06,279 --> 01:33:08,239
head or whatever the hell that is, that's right here.

1526
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:12,239
I'm gonna ruin it for all, y'all because when you

1527
01:33:12,319 --> 01:33:14,760
pay a dollar to walk through the museum, do you

1528
01:33:14,840 --> 01:33:17,760
know what the thing is? It's just a mummified woman

1529
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:21,560
and a I guess her baby, that's what the thing is. Well,

1530
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:24,920
I didn't even realize the thing was a saint, saint thing.

1531
01:33:25,119 --> 01:33:29,720
What's that saint thing? Pray for us, Saint Vladimirlinin, Pray

1532
01:33:29,800 --> 01:33:32,439
for us, because all you gotta do is be encased

1533
01:33:32,479 --> 01:33:35,039
in wax and you're in incorruptible, and that proves your religion.

1534
01:33:35,079 --> 01:33:41,079
And you see how stupid this is, y'all gonna ask

1535
01:33:41,159 --> 01:33:46,199
for the intercession a saint thing? And the Roman galaxy

1536
01:33:46,199 --> 01:33:48,039
are just mad because they know that these are really

1537
01:33:48,119 --> 01:33:50,439
dumb arguments, and the only people who would fall for

1538
01:33:50,560 --> 01:33:53,039
this are the most gullible goobers out there, the people

1539
01:33:53,039 --> 01:33:54,920
who have It's like the people who believe in the thing,

1540
01:33:55,199 --> 01:33:58,119
right like, oh, that's that's a real alien over there.

1541
01:33:58,159 --> 01:34:00,680
It's not an alien it's just a mummified woman and

1542
01:34:00,760 --> 01:34:04,720
her body and it's I guess again, it's like and

1543
01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:08,319
what determines incorruptible? If you could put wax on it

1544
01:34:08,680 --> 01:34:11,199
and it's incorruptible, then I mean, have y'all not seen

1545
01:34:11,880 --> 01:34:18,760
v I Lenins in case in wax? And then when

1546
01:34:18,760 --> 01:34:22,039
I brought that up, they were like, it doesn't count

1547
01:34:22,119 --> 01:34:26,159
because he was evil. What do you mean it doesn't count?

1548
01:34:26,399 --> 01:34:32,960
Like it's the exact same thing that you're arguing, right,

1549
01:34:33,039 --> 01:34:35,159
So here's Lenin. Look how preserved he is and they

1550
01:34:35,199 --> 01:34:41,119
admit he's covered in wax. Good grief, dude, slow boy,

1551
01:34:41,159 --> 01:34:45,039
Brandon five dollars Jay. When I'm debating atheists, I can't

1552
01:34:45,079 --> 01:34:47,960
get them to concede to God with tag, Well, then

1553
01:34:48,039 --> 01:34:50,439
move on. I don't know how to use tag to

1554
01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:53,319
show that the Trinity is true. I just did it.

1555
01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:58,880
Somebody just actually found where I talked about it in

1556
01:34:58,960 --> 01:35:00,880
an old video because they're everybody asks this, I'm not

1557
01:35:00,920 --> 01:35:02,720
mad at you, this like this comes up like every day,

1558
01:35:03,199 --> 01:35:14,640
So let me see. Uh, I think I know which

1559
01:35:14,720 --> 01:35:17,760
video was they put this? They timestamped where I talked

1560
01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:24,479
about this one Drake Monotheis, where did I talk about Trinity.

1561
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:31,119
Let me find this guy's comment, where's the what the heck? Okay,

1562
01:35:31,319 --> 01:35:37,560
let's see how does the tag? How does tag prove trinity?

1563
01:35:37,880 --> 01:35:41,720
I'm going to pin this comment since everyone asked where

1564
01:35:41,760 --> 01:35:44,760
did you cover this? So top ten bad arguments for

1565
01:35:44,800 --> 01:35:48,479
the transcend argument for God is the video and the

1566
01:35:48,680 --> 01:35:50,600
argument is at one nineteen.

1567
01:35:50,319 --> 01:36:02,760
Speaker 23: Forty three right there on you dude, there you go,

1568
01:36:03,000 --> 01:36:09,399
I penned the dog Is this your first time on

1569
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:17,439
the inner webs? I need a ginger Mercury? What's up, dude, Mercury?

1570
01:36:18,039 --> 01:36:19,199
You over there in retro grady?

1571
01:36:19,239 --> 01:36:20,640
Speaker 2: Right now? You're retro grade?

1572
01:36:23,520 --> 01:36:26,279
Speaker 1: Sorry? Can you hear me? Hey man?

1573
01:36:26,479 --> 01:36:28,399
Speaker 18: My friends start introduced me to some of.

1574
01:36:28,399 --> 01:36:33,119
Speaker 1: Your videos, and I'm intrigued. Uh. One of the areas

1575
01:36:33,119 --> 01:36:36,239
of literature. I in very broad knowledge of literature, and.

1576
01:36:36,239 --> 01:36:40,399
Speaker 21: It seems like, you know, is the enlightenments through Anglophone

1577
01:36:40,399 --> 01:36:46,399
analytic philosophy to American pragmatism. You say two dogmas in particular,

1578
01:36:46,600 --> 01:36:47,920
So I guess what I just wanted.

1579
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:48,279
Speaker 1: To do here.

1580
01:36:49,680 --> 01:36:55,039
Speaker 21: Is making American pragmicists a case for sola scripture. I

1581
01:36:55,159 --> 01:36:58,279
just see where you pull holes in it, right, because

1582
01:36:58,279 --> 01:37:00,880
I think there's a shared Germany equal background there.

1583
01:37:02,159 --> 01:37:05,159
Speaker 2: How would American pragmatism have anything to do with Sola scripture.

1584
01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:12,319
Speaker 21: So there's a turn in Western secular philosophy from epistemology

1585
01:37:12,359 --> 01:37:17,119
to linguistics. I think there's a linguistic turn in Western philosophy,

1586
01:37:17,199 --> 01:37:22,319
which line really seems to epitomize, right, I think we

1587
01:37:22,359 --> 01:37:23,960
can just stop and see if you agreed.

1588
01:37:23,680 --> 01:37:29,520
Speaker 2: Every Yeah, I mean the two dogmas eventually becomes a

1589
01:37:29,600 --> 01:37:34,479
debate about the circularity of lexicographers and dictionaries and definitions

1590
01:37:34,520 --> 01:37:37,359
and self evidence, and so he argues it's a big circle.

1591
01:37:37,439 --> 01:37:39,079
And yeah, that's linguistic philosophy.

1592
01:37:39,760 --> 01:37:42,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, clearly influenced by vicken Stein. I think he's like

1593
01:37:43,039 --> 01:37:44,760
a ghost in the background, and.

1594
01:37:44,840 --> 01:37:47,560
Speaker 21: Ultimately culminating in Richard Gordy's critique of all of Western

1595
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:51,880
philosophy as an attempt to hypostatize reason as a mirror

1596
01:37:51,920 --> 01:37:54,640
of nature, as he titles his MAGNI about this in

1597
01:37:54,720 --> 01:37:55,439
my opinion.

1598
01:37:55,239 --> 01:37:58,239
Speaker 2: Okay, but just let me stop you right there, because

1599
01:37:59,079 --> 01:38:01,399
I would just simply say that solar scripture has nothing

1600
01:38:01,439 --> 01:38:03,840
to do with any of that. It's a historical question

1601
01:38:04,079 --> 01:38:06,840
of the formation. Well, it's two things. It's a historical

1602
01:38:06,920 --> 01:38:09,560
issue hold on of the formation of the canon. And

1603
01:38:09,640 --> 01:38:12,479
then secondly it's an issue of whether or not the

1604
01:38:12,560 --> 01:38:16,159
principle of socapture itself is true. So those are two things.

1605
01:38:16,199 --> 01:38:18,880
So what does that have to do with modern pragmatic

1606
01:38:19,000 --> 01:38:19,760
linguistic turns.

1607
01:38:20,039 --> 01:38:22,399
Speaker 21: If you believe in solely the word John one one,

1608
01:38:24,279 --> 01:38:26,479
then a turn from epistemology to linguistics.

1609
01:38:28,239 --> 01:38:30,600
Speaker 2: What do you think the word is? And what is

1610
01:38:30,640 --> 01:38:31,479
the word there that?

1611
01:38:31,920 --> 01:38:33,039
Speaker 1: What is language itself?

1612
01:38:33,159 --> 01:38:35,319
Speaker 2: No, that's not what it is. The word in John

1613
01:38:35,399 --> 01:38:37,880
one is the second person of the Godhead. It's not language.

1614
01:38:39,199 --> 01:38:41,520
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the word is literally the word.

1615
01:38:41,680 --> 01:38:44,439
Speaker 2: No, it's the second person of the Godhead, who's identified

1616
01:38:44,479 --> 01:38:48,399
in John one as Jesus, the second Hypostas. It's not language. No,

1617
01:38:48,640 --> 01:38:51,279
you're wrong. So you have an assumption about what John

1618
01:38:51,319 --> 01:38:54,119
one is about. It's not language. It's the person of

1619
01:38:54,239 --> 01:38:54,600
the word.

1620
01:38:55,159 --> 01:38:56,520
Speaker 1: I don't have an assumption on a reason.

1621
01:38:56,600 --> 01:38:59,159
Speaker 2: You just literally told me that it's language, and you

1622
01:38:59,239 --> 01:39:01,520
said you don't have an assumption. It is not language.

1623
01:39:01,560 --> 01:39:03,880
It is the second person of the Godhead. He is

1624
01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:04,680
not language.

1625
01:39:05,600 --> 01:39:07,600
Speaker 1: We're focusing on the scripture right now, are we not

1626
01:39:08,079 --> 01:39:08,560
on the word?

1627
01:39:08,960 --> 01:39:13,119
Speaker 2: What does John want identify as the logos? Well, who

1628
01:39:13,159 --> 01:39:14,479
does it identify as the logos?

1629
01:39:16,000 --> 01:39:18,319
Speaker 1: The word was God, the word was with God in

1630
01:39:18,319 --> 01:39:21,239
the word was God. Who is it? Is it a he?

1631
01:39:21,479 --> 01:39:25,000
Speaker 2: Or an is? Language? Is an it? God is a he?

1632
01:39:26,359 --> 01:39:27,800
Speaker 1: As far as I'm concerned.

1633
01:39:28,079 --> 01:39:30,640
Speaker 2: I don't care what you're concerning you. Which one is it?

1634
01:39:30,880 --> 01:39:32,319
Is it the second person of the Godhead? Who is

1635
01:39:32,319 --> 01:39:40,039
a he? Or isn't an it? All right? Goodbye? Listen

1636
01:39:40,119 --> 01:39:42,680
to my listen to my wife. Huh, you're not letting

1637
01:39:42,680 --> 01:39:47,239
me finish because you're saying dumb stuff. Obviously, it's not language,

1638
01:39:47,319 --> 01:39:55,039
that's an it. It's a he, a named entity. Goodbye.

1639
01:39:57,600 --> 01:40:01,920
That's why there's no linguistic pro pragmatic Americanist argument for

1640
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:06,840
soul scripture, because you literally thought that the logos of

1641
01:40:07,039 --> 01:40:13,239
John one is language and not a divine hypostasis. Isaiah,

1642
01:40:17,439 --> 01:40:25,640
Huh that soila. As far as I'm concerned, Well, let

1643
01:40:25,720 --> 01:40:30,560
me talk. What's up? How you doing?

1644
01:40:31,279 --> 01:40:31,319
Speaker 1: So?

1645
01:40:31,399 --> 01:40:35,720
Speaker 15: I got a question about about tag. You know, maybe

1646
01:40:35,760 --> 01:40:36,720
we can have a discussion on it.

1647
01:40:36,800 --> 01:40:40,840
Speaker 1: So, okay, can you so?

1648
01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:43,199
Speaker 15: I know, I I agree that the argument is an

1649
01:40:43,319 --> 01:40:47,600
argument between paradigms, and but I'm trying to learn more

1650
01:40:47,760 --> 01:40:49,199
about how can.

1651
01:40:49,119 --> 01:40:52,039
Speaker 1: We support the paradigm of of God?

1652
01:40:52,279 --> 01:40:52,399
Speaker 2: Right?

1653
01:40:52,520 --> 01:40:54,000
Speaker 15: So, like I get the question a lot when I

1654
01:40:54,039 --> 01:40:56,399
try to argue TAG as to like what is the

1655
01:40:56,479 --> 01:40:59,159
mechanism in which God gives us knowledge?

1656
01:40:59,239 --> 01:41:01,079
Speaker 1: And I don't really know where to go from there.

1657
01:41:03,039 --> 01:41:08,640
Speaker 2: So the Christian worldview presents a specific paradigm of epistemology, metaphysics,

1658
01:41:08,680 --> 01:41:11,039
and ethics, and so all three of those things are

1659
01:41:11,119 --> 01:41:14,600
what you're arguing for I think when you're arguing TAG.

1660
01:41:15,039 --> 01:41:19,239
So TAG is a supra argument that sort of encompasses

1661
01:41:19,319 --> 01:41:23,279
like an umbrella, those three domains of a worldview. So,

1662
01:41:23,479 --> 01:41:27,720
for example, Christianity has a specific metaphysic about the natural world,

1663
01:41:28,119 --> 01:41:31,439
about the regularity of nature, providence, etc. Those things are

1664
01:41:31,479 --> 01:41:34,520
the basis, for example, of induction, and so induction is

1665
01:41:34,600 --> 01:41:39,479
possible because of the Christian metaphysic of divine providence, et cetera.

1666
01:41:39,720 --> 01:41:44,359
So that's one example to where induction or identity over

1667
01:41:44,479 --> 01:41:47,359
time is not a problem in a Christian paradigm because

1668
01:41:47,680 --> 01:41:51,960
the entire Christian ethos and metaphysic has God creating the world,

1669
01:41:52,079 --> 01:41:56,359
with things having natures, things having secondary causal powers, et cetera.

1670
01:41:56,720 --> 01:42:02,159
So if you're having that metaphysic then that explains and

1671
01:42:02,279 --> 01:42:06,319
grounds how it's possible to have those things. It doesn't

1672
01:42:06,439 --> 01:42:10,800
exhaustively explain every element of a worldview or every question.

1673
01:42:11,439 --> 01:42:14,439
It makes possible those things. So that's I think a

1674
01:42:14,479 --> 01:42:18,039
lot of people mistake the transitional argument for an exhaustive

1675
01:42:18,119 --> 01:42:22,119
explanation for everything, or an exhaustive explanation for every aspect

1676
01:42:22,199 --> 01:42:22,800
of a worldview.

1677
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:22,840
Speaker 1: No.

1678
01:42:22,880 --> 01:42:27,439
Speaker 2: No, it's an explanation for how it's possible to have

1679
01:42:27,640 --> 01:42:30,960
those things, which is a meta level argument. So the

1680
01:42:31,039 --> 01:42:34,760
atheist paradigm, for an example here, contrasted to that paradigm,

1681
01:42:35,359 --> 01:42:39,560
how does it even make possible knowledge or metaphysical claims

1682
01:42:39,680 --> 01:42:42,880
at all? So the argument is not about the claims

1683
01:42:42,920 --> 01:42:46,000
themselves in terms of whether there's tels or whether there's

1684
01:42:46,039 --> 01:42:49,119
this or that. It's a question of whether the worldview

1685
01:42:49,399 --> 01:42:53,039
makes it possible to have metaphysics and knowledge and ethics.

1686
01:42:54,000 --> 01:42:56,079
Speaker 15: I mean, I don't even see a way that they

1687
01:42:56,159 --> 01:42:58,600
can they can get out of their own senses. And

1688
01:42:58,800 --> 01:43:01,239
it seems like, on the same hand, they're trying to

1689
01:43:01,319 --> 01:43:06,199
say that everything they get or practically everything they get,

1690
01:43:06,319 --> 01:43:07,600
is via their senses.

1691
01:43:08,159 --> 01:43:11,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and even the senses doesn't even make sense

1692
01:43:11,359 --> 01:43:15,920
that that assumes that there's reliable, meaningful information and data

1693
01:43:16,039 --> 01:43:19,760
coming in from the external world that's distinct from you know,

1694
01:43:20,279 --> 01:43:24,279
merely sensual reactions of you know, hot cold, this kind

1695
01:43:24,279 --> 01:43:26,680
of stuff like even hot and cold. Assumes that there's

1696
01:43:26,680 --> 01:43:29,840
some kind of like meaningful data interaction with an external world,

1697
01:43:30,079 --> 01:43:33,079
none of which has actually proven. They just assume it, right,

1698
01:43:33,199 --> 01:43:34,800
And and that's what I was gonna say.

1699
01:43:34,840 --> 01:43:37,159
Speaker 15: On the same hand, they they also say that your

1700
01:43:37,199 --> 01:43:40,520
senses are also not reliable, exactly when I asked them to.

1701
01:43:40,800 --> 01:43:44,119
Like so it's just I don't know how they do it,

1702
01:43:44,279 --> 01:43:45,039
but like.

1703
01:43:45,159 --> 01:43:48,479
Speaker 2: So let me, let me let me well, and not

1704
01:43:48,600 --> 01:43:51,119
even just not reliable, but like what's the difference between

1705
01:43:51,760 --> 01:43:56,479
you know, like when my when my hand reacts to

1706
01:43:56,600 --> 01:43:58,960
a hot stove and I and I jerk my hand

1707
01:43:59,079 --> 01:44:04,800
back because of the heat. Like why is that an instinctual,

1708
01:44:04,920 --> 01:44:11,239
sort of non important, not meaningful action versus the information

1709
01:44:11,439 --> 01:44:14,640
that comes in when I look at and touch the book, right,

1710
01:44:14,760 --> 01:44:19,640
So it's like this is a meaningful, information rich activity

1711
01:44:19,760 --> 01:44:23,279
looking at the book and touching it, smelling, licking the

1712
01:44:23,359 --> 01:44:26,119
book right, tasting to see what it did that versus

1713
01:44:26,399 --> 01:44:30,960
like the instinctual things of yawning or whatever, like things

1714
01:44:31,000 --> 01:44:34,159
that are not supposedly meaningful, or information coming in from

1715
01:44:34,199 --> 01:44:37,199
the external world that doesn't really Like, there's this, there's

1716
01:44:37,199 --> 01:44:40,159
an assumption that, oh, that's a class of things that

1717
01:44:40,439 --> 01:44:43,079
matter versus all these other things they don't matter. Well,

1718
01:44:43,159 --> 01:44:46,399
if I'm just a meat bag and this is just

1719
01:44:46,600 --> 01:44:52,760
like random stuff occurring, there's no classification of meaningful actions

1720
01:44:52,880 --> 01:44:59,479
versus non meaningful or instinctual actions versus rational high tier

1721
01:44:59,600 --> 01:45:02,199
sophistic Again, they're all just it's all just the same

1722
01:45:03,079 --> 01:45:05,279
bunch of things happening which have no meaning.

1723
01:45:06,600 --> 01:45:08,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, well I don't even know. I don't

1724
01:45:08,479 --> 01:45:08,760
even know.

1725
01:45:09,079 --> 01:45:11,520
Speaker 15: Like usually what they mean by meaning in the first

1726
01:45:11,560 --> 01:45:14,800
place is just what they're privy to, like what they like,

1727
01:45:15,439 --> 01:45:17,479
you know. So I don't even think, you know, I

1728
01:45:17,520 --> 01:45:19,000
don't even think that they can get out of that.

1729
01:45:19,119 --> 01:45:20,600
But let me let me ask you this, and uh,

1730
01:45:20,920 --> 01:45:22,680
you know, I won't take up too much of your time.

1731
01:45:23,000 --> 01:45:24,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I could talk all day about it.

1732
01:45:25,039 --> 01:45:29,119
Speaker 15: But so I'm having trouble.

1733
01:45:29,920 --> 01:45:32,520
Speaker 1: Let me let me put it this way. How can

1734
01:45:32,760 --> 01:45:33,239
I know?

1735
01:45:34,119 --> 01:45:35,880
Speaker 15: Right, Let's say that you're you're saying that God is

1736
01:45:35,960 --> 01:45:39,520
giving me information somewhere right, Like, I get divine providence

1737
01:45:39,640 --> 01:45:41,600
that that he set up the world in such a

1738
01:45:41,640 --> 01:45:44,399
way where it acts regular because he created it right,

1739
01:45:44,439 --> 01:45:46,439
and he's instantiating that at all times.

1740
01:45:46,479 --> 01:45:47,720
Speaker 5: Therefore, we can know.

1741
01:45:48,720 --> 01:45:50,680
Speaker 15: That our past future, well, we don't even need the

1742
01:45:51,159 --> 01:45:53,600
past futures because we have information about future futures.

1743
01:45:53,800 --> 01:45:57,079
Speaker 1: Right, I get that, But I don't.

1744
01:45:57,399 --> 01:45:59,880
Speaker 15: I'm having trouble on the epistemology side, right.

1745
01:46:00,119 --> 01:46:00,800
Speaker 1: I think I.

1746
01:46:00,920 --> 01:46:03,359
Speaker 15: Understand the metaphysic of it, and I definitely understand the

1747
01:46:03,399 --> 01:46:07,000
ethics of it, but I'm having trouble on the epistemology

1748
01:46:07,119 --> 01:46:07,319
of it.

1749
01:46:10,119 --> 01:46:15,279
Speaker 2: Okay, what specifically, I don't know how.

1750
01:46:15,239 --> 01:46:19,119
Speaker 15: I can know that divine divine providence.

1751
01:46:20,920 --> 01:46:22,520
Speaker 1: Is what is keeping it right.

1752
01:46:24,079 --> 01:46:28,760
Speaker 2: Well, the argument is that ultimately it's a theonymous epistemology,

1753
01:46:28,880 --> 01:46:32,399
meaning that it's grounded in the divine revelation that God

1754
01:46:32,880 --> 01:46:36,439
maintains the universe through his energy of divine providence. So

1755
01:46:36,560 --> 01:46:40,359
the way that we know it is because of divine revelation. Ultimately,

1756
01:46:40,880 --> 01:46:43,319
we're not knowing it in the sense of like, oh,

1757
01:46:43,399 --> 01:46:46,560
we did an exhaustive, you know, computer data analysis of

1758
01:46:46,600 --> 01:46:48,439
the natural world that tells us that there must be

1759
01:46:48,479 --> 01:46:52,079
a being that's providential. No, it's it's literally from divine revelation.

1760
01:46:52,680 --> 01:46:54,880
And so, well, how do you know that revelation's true. Well,

1761
01:46:55,000 --> 01:46:58,640
the way I would know, first and foremost is because

1762
01:46:58,680 --> 01:47:02,880
of the reliability of that worldview. In other words, the

1763
01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:08,239
worldview itself is what makes possible having knowledge or metaphysics

1764
01:47:08,319 --> 01:47:11,880
at all. So, in other words, the epistemology is grounded

1765
01:47:11,960 --> 01:47:16,880
in the revealed doctrines, the revelation of God's self, disclosure

1766
01:47:16,920 --> 01:47:21,520
of who he is, Trinity, et cetera, his third eye, God,

1767
01:47:21,640 --> 01:47:22,760
perspective of history.

1768
01:47:23,399 --> 01:47:31,680
Speaker 1: So is something is it something like through the world we.

1769
01:47:31,720 --> 01:47:35,039
Speaker 15: Can observe divine providence, right, and you would call that

1770
01:47:35,199 --> 01:47:36,680
observation revelation.

1771
01:47:37,800 --> 01:47:40,760
Speaker 2: No, I'm saying that the way that I know that

1772
01:47:41,319 --> 01:47:45,960
providence is the answer to the question of induction and

1773
01:47:46,000 --> 01:47:49,119
the regulatory of nature is because of divine revelation. Divine

1774
01:47:49,159 --> 01:47:51,880
revelation tells me that God created the world in a

1775
01:47:52,000 --> 01:47:54,600
regular way that in Genesis won the seasons will continue

1776
01:47:54,640 --> 01:47:57,199
until the end of the world. The seasons act as

1777
01:47:57,239 --> 01:48:01,319
a kind of a you know, world clock, until there's

1778
01:48:01,399 --> 01:48:03,520
an end of the universe whenever God determines that to be.

1779
01:48:03,720 --> 01:48:07,479
So that regularity is not something that I just want,

1780
01:48:07,680 --> 01:48:09,359
you know, Like, so I go out and I look

1781
01:48:09,399 --> 01:48:11,359
at the seasons, and yeah, I see a kind of

1782
01:48:11,359 --> 01:48:15,119
a regularity. But the basis for why I think it's

1783
01:48:15,279 --> 01:48:17,640
divine regularity would be divine revelation.

1784
01:48:18,720 --> 01:48:19,600
Speaker 1: Okay, I get that.

1785
01:48:19,720 --> 01:48:21,720
Speaker 15: Maybe I could have been more clear when I said observation,

1786
01:48:21,800 --> 01:48:26,960
because like I think, I consider reading reading scripture and observation.

1787
01:48:27,640 --> 01:48:29,319
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, so that this is this is

1788
01:48:29,640 --> 01:48:35,000
so the faculty of reading, or your senses and sense data,

1789
01:48:35,560 --> 01:48:39,399
is not the equivalent of revelation because your faculties are

1790
01:48:39,439 --> 01:48:44,680
created faculties. Divine revelation is God's own self disclosure of himself,

1791
01:48:44,840 --> 01:48:47,399
which is of his own divine thoughts or low gi

1792
01:48:47,560 --> 01:48:52,159
or divine ideas. That's uncreated divine revelation. And so your

1793
01:48:52,439 --> 01:48:57,640
created faculties and senses are perceiving the uncreated, sometimes to

1794
01:48:57,760 --> 01:49:01,439
the created and ultimately antheosis we hope eventually directly.

1795
01:49:02,640 --> 01:49:05,119
Speaker 15: Okay, I got, I gotta, I got some of that.

1796
01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:09,159
I think it would for me to absorb all of it.

1797
01:49:09,239 --> 01:49:10,520
Speaker 2: Do you do you have any good Let me give

1798
01:49:10,520 --> 01:49:13,119
an example. So, like when you're observing the natural world,

1799
01:49:13,640 --> 01:49:18,520
that's not divine revelation. Yeah, that's you observing the natural

1800
01:49:18,560 --> 01:49:22,239
world and you can do what Saint Maximus calls a

1801
01:49:22,319 --> 01:49:27,159
kind of natural contemplation to see the divine behind that

1802
01:49:27,399 --> 01:49:31,279
or through that, and in a sense it could potentially

1803
01:49:31,359 --> 01:49:33,880
become divine revelation, because he says something like when we

1804
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:38,079
see God, we eventually see all things in God. Right,

1805
01:49:38,279 --> 01:49:43,520
so it's it's potentially revelation, but just perceiving the natural

1806
01:49:43,560 --> 01:49:46,880
world itself is not necessarily relationship.

1807
01:49:46,960 --> 01:49:49,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right, right, I get that.

1808
01:49:49,560 --> 01:49:52,800
Speaker 15: I think that I need to study moral on on exactly.

1809
01:49:53,039 --> 01:49:54,359
I mean, don't get me wrong. I think that you

1810
01:49:54,399 --> 01:49:57,000
did good there. It just seems like divine revelation is

1811
01:49:57,039 --> 01:49:57,640
a huge topic.

1812
01:49:57,760 --> 01:50:01,159
Speaker 2: Well, i'll tell you what to read on this. This

1813
01:50:01,760 --> 01:50:06,199
Saint Justin Popovich's chapter on Saint Isaac the Syrian called

1814
01:50:06,199 --> 01:50:10,520
the Mystery of Knowledge, and there he will distinguish revelation, knowledge,

1815
01:50:10,560 --> 01:50:12,399
et cetera. It's a very good chapter.

1816
01:50:12,479 --> 01:50:15,079
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I appreciate it. Thanks.

1817
01:50:15,399 --> 01:50:17,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's in the book Life in Christ by Saint

1818
01:50:17,479 --> 01:50:23,960
Justin Papovich and FDA. If you wanted to comment on

1819
01:50:24,079 --> 01:50:32,319
any of that about revelation, feel free. Welcome everybody. We're

1820
01:50:32,319 --> 01:50:35,119
having open debate We've had some great discussions so far.

1821
01:50:35,640 --> 01:50:37,880
We had one kind of wacko fed dude who was

1822
01:50:37,960 --> 01:50:41,000
going crazy, but pretty much on the whole, We've had

1823
01:50:41,039 --> 01:50:44,760
a really cool, calm, civil discussion. We had that one

1824
01:50:45,000 --> 01:50:50,880
kind of goofy Protestant guy. So we're batting about eight

1825
01:50:50,960 --> 01:50:54,520
for ten today, eight for ten for quality versus crazy

1826
01:50:56,039 --> 01:51:05,560
Palestine Palestine. By the way, if you want to follow

1827
01:51:05,640 --> 01:51:07,399
me on X you can follow me right over here

1828
01:51:08,520 --> 01:51:10,159
and help me out. I'm almost two.

1829
01:51:10,720 --> 01:51:17,039
Speaker 26: What's up, hi, Jay, thanks for the mic man, my

1830
01:51:17,159 --> 01:51:21,560
first time here. I'm a Muslim, I thought, Yeah, so

1831
01:51:21,800 --> 01:51:27,560
I I am not that much knowledgeable on uh, like

1832
01:51:27,800 --> 01:51:30,840
the different Christians six I know, like all of those

1833
01:51:31,039 --> 01:51:31,560
Catholic and.

1834
01:51:33,079 --> 01:51:35,000
Speaker 11: I have a few questions for you, but I just

1835
01:51:35,079 --> 01:51:37,399
wanted to We're Orthodox here, so go ahead.

1836
01:51:38,399 --> 01:51:39,239
Speaker 1: Okay, So I just.

1837
01:51:39,279 --> 01:51:44,199
Speaker 11: Wanted to ask if your questions before that, like have

1838
01:51:44,520 --> 01:51:46,359
you studied.

1839
01:51:47,000 --> 01:51:50,920
Speaker 1: The religion of Islam like at all? Or or Quran? Yeah?

1840
01:51:51,319 --> 01:51:53,279
Speaker 2: I mean, I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I've

1841
01:51:53,319 --> 01:51:56,359
debated all of your top guys for the last five years.

1842
01:51:57,640 --> 01:52:02,760
Speaker 1: Okay, cool, So the only one I think the main

1843
01:52:03,359 --> 01:52:10,720
point that most Muslims say is like the as you

1844
01:52:10,800 --> 01:52:13,880
said just now, that that the Bible.

1845
01:52:15,800 --> 01:52:20,279
Speaker 26: Was written like, uh, and depending on on this, the

1846
01:52:20,479 --> 01:52:24,079
people that were there who wrote the Bible, because the

1847
01:52:24,159 --> 01:52:25,640
Bible has been changed.

1848
01:52:26,600 --> 01:52:29,279
Speaker 2: Well, now that's your assertion. But hold on, hold on,

1849
01:52:29,479 --> 01:52:31,720
that's your assertion that the Bible was changed. And what

1850
01:52:31,920 --> 01:52:34,119
is your actual evidence or proof of that, because the

1851
01:52:34,479 --> 01:52:36,319
Quran does not say the Bible was changed?

1852
01:52:39,439 --> 01:52:42,680
Speaker 26: No, no, But but you just said that, you know,

1853
01:52:44,119 --> 01:52:49,439
the writings in the Bible depended on the people that No.

1854
01:52:49,560 --> 01:52:51,760
Speaker 2: I said that the collection of the books, which we

1855
01:52:51,880 --> 01:52:54,000
call the canon. In other words, the canon means the

1856
01:52:54,039 --> 01:52:56,720
books that were decided upon to go into the Bible,

1857
01:52:56,800 --> 01:52:59,239
which is this big collection here of a bunch of

1858
01:52:59,319 --> 01:53:01,479
the Bible is a bunch of little books. Right. So

1859
01:53:01,720 --> 01:53:04,399
what I'm saying is that the community of people, namely

1860
01:53:04,479 --> 01:53:07,479
the Church of the first seven eight hundred years, is

1861
01:53:07,520 --> 01:53:10,960
who determined what books go into this big book. That's

1862
01:53:11,000 --> 01:53:12,960
what I was saying. I didn't say they changed.

1863
01:53:12,720 --> 01:53:16,600
Speaker 26: It, right, right, So the original version is still there,

1864
01:53:16,760 --> 01:53:18,960
like it's still exists.

1865
01:53:19,239 --> 01:53:22,119
Speaker 2: Yeah. If you look up the comparison of the manuscripts

1866
01:53:22,199 --> 01:53:25,199
of the earliest versions of the New Testament, there's about

1867
01:53:25,239 --> 01:53:28,680
a ninety five to ninety seven percent unanimity and accuracy

1868
01:53:28,720 --> 01:53:32,520
amongst the various manuscript traditions. That's the highest amongst any

1869
01:53:32,680 --> 01:53:33,640
of the ancient texts.

1870
01:53:35,680 --> 01:53:42,039
Speaker 26: Right, But then Quran does say that, and you you

1871
01:53:42,199 --> 01:53:45,079
probably know already that we have very high like we

1872
01:53:45,399 --> 01:53:51,239
think Christians are the closest to us, like because it

1873
01:53:51,399 --> 01:53:54,239
also mentions because they have love in their heart right

1874
01:53:54,359 --> 01:53:55,159
like the Christians.

1875
01:53:55,239 --> 01:53:58,119
Speaker 2: Well, the Qoran also says that people who believe in

1876
01:53:59,520 --> 01:54:02,560
partners with Allah or idolators and should be killed. So

1877
01:54:02,640 --> 01:54:04,560
now I don't think you actually believe that we're close.

1878
01:54:06,159 --> 01:54:11,239
Speaker 11: No, No, so that that's very upcoming. Quran says that.

1879
01:54:12,640 --> 01:54:17,039
Speaker 26: Jesus was a prophet, a messenger and not a son

1880
01:54:17,119 --> 01:54:20,920
of God. But Christians have like changed it or.

1881
01:54:21,079 --> 01:54:23,439
Speaker 2: No, I understand that that's what you say, we believe.

1882
01:54:23,560 --> 01:54:28,800
I understand that. But what I'm arguing is that in reality,

1883
01:54:29,159 --> 01:54:33,199
the Quran also says, and I believe the Quran contradicts.

1884
01:54:33,239 --> 01:54:34,760
I know you don't think it does, but I believe

1885
01:54:34,760 --> 01:54:37,760
that it does. So we have competing We have competing claim.

1886
01:54:37,840 --> 01:54:40,199
You believe your book is correct and doesn't contradict. I

1887
01:54:40,279 --> 01:54:43,119
believe my book is correct and doesn't contradict. My argument

1888
01:54:43,279 --> 01:54:46,880
is that the Quran itself, for example, in five forty

1889
01:54:46,960 --> 01:54:50,680
six and forty seven, says that Allah revealed himself in

1890
01:54:50,800 --> 01:54:55,640
the Torah and in a previous revelation. And so is

1891
01:54:55,720 --> 01:54:57,600
it true that all those words can be corrupted?

1892
01:55:01,399 --> 01:55:04,439
Speaker 11: Yes, people, people corrupted.

1893
01:55:04,079 --> 01:55:07,479
Speaker 2: It, right, Well, I thought, so hold on, So then

1894
01:55:07,680 --> 01:55:09,720
then the Kuran could be corrupted if people can corrupt

1895
01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:11,960
all his words, right, So that's where.

1896
01:55:11,800 --> 01:55:15,399
Speaker 11: I'm coming at. So in Quran, Allah has mentioned that.

1897
01:55:17,039 --> 01:55:22,079
Speaker 26: He's taken responsibility by himself, that this book will never

1898
01:55:22,199 --> 01:55:23,760
be changed because there's the laws.

1899
01:55:23,920 --> 01:55:25,720
Speaker 2: But wait a minute, it was his work. So he

1900
01:55:25,880 --> 01:55:29,039
wasn't responsible in the prior revelations that the humans corrupted.

1901
01:55:29,079 --> 01:55:30,840
He wasn't responsible for those. But he's going to be

1902
01:55:30,880 --> 01:55:31,600
responsible now.

1903
01:55:32,800 --> 01:55:35,079
Speaker 26: No, But he gave an open hand, like he gave

1904
01:55:36,560 --> 01:55:40,359
people the responsibility to be you know.

1905
01:55:40,560 --> 01:55:43,039
Speaker 2: Good, Okay, so Uthman and all of that with the

1906
01:55:43,079 --> 01:55:45,920
burning of the various korans, was that also his responsibility

1907
01:55:46,000 --> 01:55:46,600
or how did that work?

1908
01:55:47,079 --> 01:55:47,119
Speaker 18: No?

1909
01:55:47,199 --> 01:55:50,880
Speaker 11: No, no, no, So so Quran doesn't like book doesn't matter.

1910
01:55:51,000 --> 01:55:53,520
Speaker 2: I tell you why, because the book doesn't matter of

1911
01:55:53,600 --> 01:56:03,439
the prophet, right, the book doesn't matter seth, sir, what's up?

1912
01:56:09,279 --> 01:56:16,239
The book doesn't matter now, so what's up? Yeah?

1913
01:56:17,800 --> 01:56:20,399
Speaker 1: I should probably hop off and hop back in. Uh,

1914
01:56:21,119 --> 01:56:24,119
it's kind of I got him at the worst possible.

1915
01:56:23,800 --> 01:56:40,880
Speaker 2: Time, So that's fine. Yeah, come back when you're ready. Roscoe. Hello, Yeah,

1916
01:56:40,960 --> 01:56:41,279
what's up?

1917
01:56:42,399 --> 01:56:42,560
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1918
01:56:42,600 --> 01:56:45,960
Speaker 16: I have a question about Uh, absolutely defined simplicity from

1919
01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:47,000
a perspective.

1920
01:56:48,079 --> 01:56:48,399
Speaker 2: Okay.

1921
01:56:49,560 --> 01:56:53,039
Speaker 16: I was talking to my Iranian SHEI have friend, and

1922
01:56:53,680 --> 01:56:58,920
he said that Allah reveals himself through intermediary created principles

1923
01:56:59,000 --> 01:57:01,000
like the mom or the created.

1924
01:57:01,479 --> 01:57:03,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it just moves the problem back a step.

1925
01:57:03,319 --> 01:57:05,800
So I was listening to all of doctor Khalil's talk

1926
01:57:05,880 --> 01:57:08,359
on all of that and everything that he was critiquing

1927
01:57:08,439 --> 01:57:11,720
the other positions for He's in the exact same boat.

1928
01:57:11,840 --> 01:57:15,520
Because if Gabriel gets the revelation from Allah and then

1929
01:57:16,000 --> 01:57:20,800
and then Gabriel makes it accessible to the humans, Jabril

1930
01:57:20,880 --> 01:57:22,800
is still a creature. So how is he getting these

1931
01:57:22,920 --> 01:57:23,720
uncreated words?

1932
01:57:25,399 --> 01:57:27,640
Speaker 16: Well, they don't believe it's uncreated like she has will

1933
01:57:27,680 --> 01:57:30,960
say that for example, the Kuran doesn't it does it does?

1934
01:57:31,239 --> 01:57:33,640
Speaker 5: It can be corrupted in their religion, that's what they believe.

1935
01:57:34,000 --> 01:57:35,960
Speaker 2: But I'm saying that I'm not talking about the book,

1936
01:57:36,000 --> 01:57:41,319
I'm talking about the revelation from the Eternal Scroll or

1937
01:57:41,359 --> 01:57:46,920
whatever to that Jabril is the problem is between Allah

1938
01:57:47,119 --> 01:57:50,800
and Jabril. It's the same problem because Jabril is a creature.

1939
01:57:52,319 --> 01:57:55,119
Speaker 5: So are you saying that, like, how does Jabriel ground

1940
01:57:55,199 --> 01:57:55,760
this knowledge?

1941
01:57:57,119 --> 01:58:00,000
Speaker 2: The problem? So if you watch doctor Khlill's lecture where

1942
01:58:00,079 --> 01:58:03,520
he critiques the Ashari and the Wahabbies and all of that,

1943
01:58:04,239 --> 01:58:07,680
he talks about the different positions and he says that

1944
01:58:09,560 --> 01:58:12,439
the the way that the going from memory, the way

1945
01:58:12,479 --> 01:58:15,399
the the Shari discuss it is that they don't believe

1946
01:58:15,439 --> 01:58:18,359
that Allah has parts, but they do believe that there's

1947
01:58:18,399 --> 01:58:21,880
this uncreated Qur'an. And so how is there an uncreated

1948
01:58:21,960 --> 01:58:24,479
Qur'an that's other than Allah? And so my point is

1949
01:58:24,560 --> 01:58:28,600
just simply that if he believes that there's an uncreated

1950
01:58:28,840 --> 01:58:33,159
or achievement that there's an eternal tablet, that it's still

1951
01:58:33,800 --> 01:58:38,840
there's still a gap between the uncreated, whether it's from

1952
01:58:38,880 --> 01:58:41,199
Allah to the tablet or whether it's from the tablets

1953
01:58:41,239 --> 01:58:45,960
to Jabril. The problem still remains. If there's nothing like Allah,

1954
01:58:46,199 --> 01:58:48,800
then how do you get any point in this chain

1955
01:58:48,920 --> 01:58:51,279
of a created similarity to the uncreated.

1956
01:58:52,720 --> 01:58:57,119
Speaker 16: Yeah, that's what I asked him, and he, I guess prevaricated.

1957
01:58:57,279 --> 01:59:02,000
I tried forcing an analogical predication, which we contradict his ads, right,

1958
01:59:02,319 --> 01:59:07,319
but he kept on saying that the action is only

1959
01:59:07,399 --> 01:59:11,039
done through the imoms from all of creation, and that

1960
01:59:11,119 --> 01:59:12,560
these are creative effects and they're.

1961
01:59:12,399 --> 01:59:13,199
Speaker 1: Not like Allah.

1962
01:59:13,920 --> 01:59:16,720
Speaker 2: Well, a creative effect does not like the uncreated.

1963
01:59:16,800 --> 01:59:20,399
Speaker 16: So when I tried saying, like, for example, is Allah's

1964
01:59:20,600 --> 01:59:21,960
knowledge uncreated?

1965
01:59:22,560 --> 01:59:24,399
Speaker 5: How do you share this? How do you share a.

1966
01:59:24,399 --> 01:59:27,680
Speaker 16: Similarity to what what knowledge Allah has revealed to you?

1967
01:59:27,760 --> 01:59:32,439
He said you appealed to the logic of Dionysius and said, well,

1968
01:59:32,520 --> 01:59:34,960
Allah is not lacking and knowledge he surpasses it to

1969
01:59:35,039 --> 01:59:40,000
the extent that he's not lacking, but it's sort of

1970
01:59:40,119 --> 01:59:41,359
overflowing in him.

1971
01:59:41,439 --> 01:59:43,760
Speaker 5: And it's so, is it sort of super knowledge that

1972
01:59:43,880 --> 01:59:44,640
cannot be compared?

1973
01:59:44,880 --> 01:59:46,279
Speaker 2: Well, how does he know that? Though, I mean, he

1974
01:59:46,279 --> 01:59:48,000
would have to have access to the thing that he

1975
01:59:48,159 --> 01:59:49,399
says is in question.

1976
01:59:50,279 --> 01:59:51,000
Speaker 5: It's in his Uh.

1977
01:59:51,159 --> 01:59:53,880
Speaker 16: I'm pretty sure some of these shiah hideas and then

1978
01:59:53,960 --> 01:59:54,920
thems no.

1979
01:59:55,039 --> 01:59:57,039
Speaker 2: But I'm saying that you can appeal to that, But

1980
01:59:57,159 --> 01:59:59,079
that's still begging the question that how do we know

1981
01:59:59,159 --> 02:00:01,560
that it's actually matt up to the thing that's beyond.

1982
02:00:04,239 --> 02:00:06,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's no predication for them as all apathetic.

1983
02:00:08,760 --> 02:00:10,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's what I'm trying to say, is like,

1984
02:00:11,159 --> 02:00:13,960
you can't have a totally apathetic system. At some point,

1985
02:00:14,000 --> 02:00:16,159
you're going to have to have something cataphatic to be

1986
02:00:16,199 --> 02:00:19,159
able to speak about it. But they've already sort of

1987
02:00:19,359 --> 02:00:23,199
shot themselves in the foot with their either their ADS

1988
02:00:23,520 --> 02:00:26,880
or just the you know, Quran forty two that there's

1989
02:00:26,920 --> 02:00:27,800
nothing like a lat.

1990
02:00:29,319 --> 02:00:32,279
Speaker 16: Okay, I guess I'll have to investigate it a little

1991
02:00:32,279 --> 02:00:34,039
bit more to explain it to him. But do you

1992
02:00:34,119 --> 02:00:37,119
have any books critiquing this sort of neoplatonism and the

1993
02:00:37,159 --> 02:00:39,680
ADS in general that you because we're just online resources.

1994
02:00:39,720 --> 02:00:41,920
Speaker 2: In general, I mean all the Orthodox Church fathers, I

1995
02:00:42,000 --> 02:00:45,119
mean especially the Cave Docians, like when they're responding to Eunomius.

1996
02:00:45,479 --> 02:00:49,279
Eunomius is a neoplatonist. So every argument for the essence

1997
02:00:49,319 --> 02:00:53,560
introduce sinction is by default an argument against the ADS

1998
02:00:53,880 --> 02:00:56,800
Neoplatonic Roman Caloic position.

1999
02:00:57,880 --> 02:01:00,680
Speaker 16: Yeah, I've seen some of these quotes, but honestly, I

2000
02:01:00,720 --> 02:01:03,840
think that only really maps on to like a worldview

2001
02:01:03,880 --> 02:01:07,079
where there's Christian presuppositions, you know what I'm saying, where

2002
02:01:07,119 --> 02:01:09,319
like there's a common sort of revelation that doesn't really

2003
02:01:09,359 --> 02:01:11,520
exist in the Muslim worldon.

2004
02:01:11,239 --> 02:01:14,199
Speaker 2: Well, okay, but but what I'm saying is that the

2005
02:01:14,680 --> 02:01:19,239
way that we go about critiquing neo platonic movements and

2006
02:01:19,319 --> 02:01:23,439
presuppositions is more than just I mean, there's internal problems

2007
02:01:23,479 --> 02:01:26,960
with those positions to begin with. For example, when the

2008
02:01:27,079 --> 02:01:29,840
last time doctor Khalil came on here or some of

2009
02:01:29,920 --> 02:01:35,279
his students, they were actually arguing that it's not neoplatonism,

2010
02:01:35,399 --> 02:01:38,479
it's actually from the Quran. And I'm like, so the

2011
02:01:38,560 --> 02:01:42,159
Kuran didn't get this from the positions that were centuries

2012
02:01:42,199 --> 02:01:45,399
prior to the Qoran, no, I mean, which I think

2013
02:01:45,479 --> 02:01:48,000
is kind of retarded. So I just ask your friend

2014
02:01:48,000 --> 02:01:50,239
if he believes, like, in other words, it's cribbed, like

2015
02:01:50,800 --> 02:01:54,560
most of Islam is cribbed. And so whether it's Islam,

2016
02:01:54,640 --> 02:01:56,760
it's whether it's they're cribbing from the Talmud or from

2017
02:01:56,840 --> 02:02:00,359
Christianity or from Orthodoxy or with the Shiahs, they're cribbing

2018
02:02:00,399 --> 02:02:03,239
from neoplatonism. And they'll even kind of admit this, But

2019
02:02:03,279 --> 02:02:05,800
then when you ask them if it's borrowed from neoplatonism.

2020
02:02:05,840 --> 02:02:07,640
They're like, no, it's from a lot, it's from the Quran.

2021
02:02:07,840 --> 02:02:10,640
So it's like, how is it from Allah in the Quran?

2022
02:02:10,800 --> 02:02:13,439
If it came from Plutina's centuries early, I.

2023
02:02:13,439 --> 02:02:15,880
Speaker 16: Think it could be similar to like a logo supermatico

2024
02:02:15,920 --> 02:02:17,840
as sort of like semi perennialism thing.

2025
02:02:17,920 --> 02:02:20,039
Speaker 2: They didn't try to argue that maybe they maybe they

2026
02:02:20,079 --> 02:02:21,680
could go that route, but no, they were actually just

2027
02:02:21,720 --> 02:02:23,640
saying that, no, it's not actually from Plato.

2028
02:02:23,680 --> 02:02:27,840
Speaker 5: And it's like they say it's original. Yeah, wow, I

2029
02:02:27,920 --> 02:02:29,319
didn't know that is that? I thought too.

2030
02:02:29,319 --> 02:02:32,199
Speaker 2: They don't say that, well maybe this was just like

2031
02:02:32,920 --> 02:02:36,479
misinformed students of his or something. I don't know, but right,

2032
02:02:36,920 --> 02:02:39,680
but I mean what I'm but still like the point

2033
02:02:39,720 --> 02:02:42,600
would still stand, like even if if that's the case,

2034
02:02:42,760 --> 02:02:46,000
then was that revelation from a law prior to the Quran?

2035
02:02:46,119 --> 02:02:48,680
And I mean, does did those that I'll get corrupted

2036
02:02:48,720 --> 02:02:50,279
to all his words get corupted? I thought all his

2037
02:02:50,359 --> 02:02:51,319
words can't get corrupted.

2038
02:02:52,840 --> 02:02:54,600
Speaker 16: They don't believe that actually, Like they say that the

2039
02:02:54,680 --> 02:02:57,399
Qur'an in some places has been like burned or taken

2040
02:02:57,439 --> 02:02:58,239
out or at itude.

2041
02:02:59,359 --> 02:03:01,439
Speaker 2: Right, I understand that the sis will admit that. But

2042
02:03:01,760 --> 02:03:04,079
what I'm trying to say is, like, then at what

2043
02:03:04,279 --> 02:03:06,560
point is the is it the true revelation? They're going

2044
02:03:06,640 --> 02:03:07,960
to say it's the eternal tablet?

2045
02:03:08,079 --> 02:03:11,600
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, so there's like no consistent Okay.

2046
02:03:11,399 --> 02:03:13,479
Speaker 2: So but how do I know where's the access to

2047
02:03:13,600 --> 02:03:15,439
the tablet? Where does that come from? Where do we

2048
02:03:15,479 --> 02:03:22,439
get that? How do I know what the infallible imams are?

2049
02:03:22,560 --> 02:03:24,439
And how am I supposed to know and follow them?

2050
02:03:25,600 --> 02:03:27,399
It's just it's just moving the problem, like from one

2051
02:03:27,479 --> 02:03:29,600
created thing to another created thing to another created thing.

2052
02:03:29,680 --> 02:03:32,680
It's like the just kicking the can down the road

2053
02:03:32,680 --> 02:03:37,720
in terms of a piscocology. All right, anyway, good questions. Yeah,

2054
02:03:37,720 --> 02:03:40,520
I'm not super well read on the she is, but.

2055
02:03:42,039 --> 02:03:42,279
Speaker 13: I'm not.

2056
02:03:44,039 --> 02:03:46,439
Speaker 2: I mean, you could critique neo Platonism on just the

2057
02:03:46,520 --> 02:03:49,600
way that we would critique Platonism, like why is there

2058
02:03:50,000 --> 02:03:52,399
a like what is the emanation from the one? And

2059
02:03:52,600 --> 02:03:55,800
like why is it of a lesser diminished status? And

2060
02:03:56,000 --> 02:04:01,640
you know, like Platonism, we like how do we know

2061
02:04:01,760 --> 02:04:04,920
that the one is ontologically superior to the many? That's

2062
02:04:04,960 --> 02:04:08,600
a hellenic presupposition that is just stated and asserted how

2063
02:04:08,600 --> 02:04:10,319
do we know that that's the case because the system

2064
02:04:10,439 --> 02:04:13,319
rests on these kinds of metaphysic assumptions which are all

2065
02:04:13,359 --> 02:04:15,399
from Hellenism. And then they'll just turn around and be like,

2066
02:04:15,439 --> 02:04:18,479
now it's not from Hellenism, it's from the Coron. So

2067
02:04:18,680 --> 02:04:21,760
I just don't know how you go about something like that.

2068
02:04:21,960 --> 02:04:25,720
But aside from all these metaphysical disputes, like, did anybody

2069
02:04:25,840 --> 02:04:28,840
just watch the doctor Khalil sam Chumun debate, I mean,

2070
02:04:29,079 --> 02:04:44,079
Sam Schimun demolished him. So, X Trip, what's up? What's up?

2071
02:04:44,119 --> 02:04:44,239
Speaker 4: Man?

2072
02:04:44,479 --> 02:04:50,359
Speaker 2: X Trip? I'm mute, Hey, can you hear me?

2073
02:04:51,319 --> 02:04:54,439
Speaker 1: M I just got a quick question for you.

2074
02:04:56,359 --> 02:04:59,279
Speaker 24: What do you think of the position that the modern

2075
02:04:59,399 --> 02:05:01,960
Jews of today are the descendants of.

2076
02:05:04,279 --> 02:05:11,159
Speaker 2: That's crazy lunacy who believes that Jews are the decid

2077
02:05:12,640 --> 02:05:14,359
What right are.

2078
02:05:14,279 --> 02:05:16,840
Speaker 24: You familiar with the dustin emos in his works?

2079
02:05:19,439 --> 02:05:21,640
Speaker 2: Ro I'm orthodox? Why am I going to be following

2080
02:05:21,720 --> 02:05:25,479
some quack weirdo Protestant guy? Like, is this like Christian

2081
02:05:25,520 --> 02:05:29,600
identity stuff? Is that what that is? I got sort

2082
02:05:29,640 --> 02:05:31,640
of all right, that stuff's all retarded. Man, Come on,

2083
02:05:31,960 --> 02:05:34,239
that's that's not even worth That's not even worth any place,

2084
02:05:34,319 --> 02:05:43,840
don puppet. I'm debating with a puppet.

2085
02:05:48,520 --> 02:05:52,119
Speaker 1: We love the Jews, unbelievable Jews not so much. We

2086
02:05:52,199 --> 02:05:54,880
don't love the jay I'm at Protestant.

2087
02:05:55,199 --> 02:05:55,640
Speaker 2: Can you hear me?

2088
02:05:55,680 --> 02:05:56,000
Speaker 1: All right?

2089
02:05:57,960 --> 02:06:00,640
Speaker 9: I'm an attorney as well. My other attorney buddy and

2090
02:06:00,680 --> 02:06:02,439
I are listening to you right now, and we've been

2091
02:06:02,479 --> 02:06:04,880
listening to you for a few weeks now. He said

2092
02:06:04,920 --> 02:06:09,760
something fifteen minutes ago about the judiciary and kind of

2093
02:06:09,800 --> 02:06:14,079
compared the ultimate authority of the Church having the judiciary

2094
02:06:15,000 --> 02:06:17,159
like care, comparing it to the Supreme Court of having

2095
02:06:17,199 --> 02:06:18,880
like a final say this to the authority of what.

2096
02:06:20,840 --> 02:06:23,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had actually brought that analogy up earlier.

2097
02:06:23,760 --> 02:06:29,239
Speaker 9: We are wrestling with Apostolic succession, and we're listening to

2098
02:06:29,279 --> 02:06:32,159
you a few other people. How do you deal with

2099
02:06:32,640 --> 02:06:36,640
the objections that that's too restrictive, that that presents some

2100
02:06:36,840 --> 02:06:40,239
issues that like originalism would present where there's not this golden.

2101
02:06:39,960 --> 02:06:42,800
Speaker 5: Era where the Church was unified or that like on

2102
02:06:42,880 --> 02:06:43,199
the Day of.

2103
02:06:43,239 --> 02:06:46,680
Speaker 9: Pentecost, they were all unified in spirit, but they maybe

2104
02:06:47,000 --> 02:06:49,600
not necessarily had gone through all these problems of heresy

2105
02:06:49,680 --> 02:06:52,439
that encounters later on down the line. And to the

2106
02:06:52,479 --> 02:06:56,119
second point of that as you could respond the critique

2107
02:06:56,159 --> 02:06:58,239
of Protestanism of just us. You know, I can go

2108
02:06:58,359 --> 02:07:00,039
with some buddies and get my Bible and say this

2109
02:07:00,199 --> 02:07:03,439
is what it means. How do you respond, how that's

2110
02:07:03,439 --> 02:07:07,319
any different other than the time period for those councils

2111
02:07:07,560 --> 02:07:10,279
who also would kind of go in before the Bible

2112
02:07:10,399 --> 02:07:11,880
or with some of these scripts or some of these

2113
02:07:11,960 --> 02:07:15,479
people that knew Jesus and iron things out. Are they

2114
02:07:15,600 --> 02:07:18,479
kind of doing the same thing. What separates us now

2115
02:07:18,600 --> 02:07:19,319
from what they did?

2116
02:07:19,920 --> 02:07:20,039
Speaker 15: Right?

2117
02:07:20,079 --> 02:07:22,319
Speaker 2: Well, if you listen to answer the second part, I

2118
02:07:22,439 --> 02:07:26,359
said specifically that it's a Roman Catholic objection that you

2119
02:07:26,479 --> 02:07:29,199
hear all the time to Protestants that I don't think

2120
02:07:29,439 --> 02:07:33,079
is a very good argument to say that you guys

2121
02:07:33,119 --> 02:07:34,880
are just reading your Bible on your own, and you

2122
02:07:35,000 --> 02:07:37,279
all are coming to your own interpretations, and so therefore

2123
02:07:37,359 --> 02:07:40,279
the papacy's necessary. That's like ninety five percent of the

2124
02:07:40,319 --> 02:07:44,079
pop Catholic car salesman apologists. I specifically said, that is

2125
02:07:44,199 --> 02:07:47,239
not a good argument, because everybody's in the same boat.

2126
02:07:47,279 --> 02:07:49,079
We're all going to be reading the Bible and trying

2127
02:07:49,119 --> 02:07:50,560
to figure out what it means. We're all going to

2128
02:07:50,600 --> 02:07:54,439
be relying on our interpretation that's unavoidable. But where we

2129
02:07:54,640 --> 02:07:58,039
differ between Catholic protests and Orthodox is the means that

2130
02:07:58,199 --> 02:08:00,560
we're going to be using or relying on one to

2131
02:08:01,520 --> 02:08:04,960
interpret and get that meaning that data. For the Orthodox,

2132
02:08:05,159 --> 02:08:08,439
it's a collection of a lot of different things that

2133
02:08:08,600 --> 02:08:10,840
we don't pick one thing out like, oh, I just

2134
02:08:10,920 --> 02:08:13,720
follow this church father, I just follow this guy, I

2135
02:08:13,880 --> 02:08:16,960
just followed this book. For us, all these different things,

2136
02:08:17,000 --> 02:08:20,039
whether it's participation in the liturgy, whether it's reading church

2137
02:08:20,119 --> 02:08:22,560
history and church fathers, reading the councils, reading the Bible,

2138
02:08:22,680 --> 02:08:24,319
lies of the Saints, all those things are going to

2139
02:08:24,359 --> 02:08:28,479
be combined to be part of our ethos for where

2140
02:08:28,560 --> 02:08:31,079
we get the data and the meaning and the interpretation.

2141
02:08:31,960 --> 02:08:35,520
If you're a Roman Catholic, ultimately your ultimate epistemic principle

2142
02:08:35,640 --> 02:08:40,079
is not the Bible. It's not your private you know, experience.

2143
02:08:40,199 --> 02:08:43,479
It's what the popes have determined. And then you got

2144
02:08:43,600 --> 02:08:47,159
to like grapple with the papal documents and the councils

2145
02:08:47,439 --> 02:08:49,880
and where the popes confirm the councils. So that's the

2146
02:08:49,960 --> 02:08:53,279
ultimate epistemic principle for the Roman Catholic. For the Protestant,

2147
02:08:53,640 --> 02:08:55,920
it's ultimately you and the Bible. I'm not saying that

2148
02:08:56,000 --> 02:08:59,800
Protestants don't like church history or councils or whatever, but ultimately,

2149
02:08:59,880 --> 02:09:03,680
the the final authority of soul scripture is the only

2150
02:09:03,720 --> 02:09:07,520
infallible guide for the Church is the Protestant Canada Scriptures.

2151
02:09:07,600 --> 02:09:12,760
So that's the epistemic existential dilemma that everyone's in, and

2152
02:09:13,000 --> 02:09:15,720
everybody is going to say and believe, well, I'm relying

2153
02:09:15,960 --> 02:09:19,319
ultimately on the Holy Spirit. Where we differ is the means.

2154
02:09:19,479 --> 02:09:22,359
The Orthodox is going to argue that the means to

2155
02:09:22,479 --> 02:09:25,199
determine the scriptures and the divine what divine revelation is

2156
02:09:25,319 --> 02:09:27,640
is going to be that holistic stuff that I that

2157
02:09:27,760 --> 02:09:30,159
I listed. For the Roman Catholic, it's going to be

2158
02:09:30,560 --> 02:09:33,199
the decisions of the popes. For the Protestant, it's going

2159
02:09:33,279 --> 02:09:35,800
to be ultimately you and the Bible. So I would

2160
02:09:35,880 --> 02:09:40,680
argue that the Church in its history disproves both the

2161
02:09:40,800 --> 02:09:45,039
papal and the Protestant approach to the means of knowing revelation.

2162
02:09:45,479 --> 02:09:48,520
That Church history in the first thousand years demonstrates a

2163
02:09:48,640 --> 02:09:53,439
consistent principle of the Church using the Church fathers, the

2164
02:09:53,479 --> 02:09:56,600
scriptures and deciding what books go into the scriptures, and

2165
02:09:57,119 --> 02:09:59,960
apisode of succession was there before the Bible was there.

2166
02:10:00,520 --> 02:10:02,520
That's why Paul says the Church of the pilarm ground

2167
02:10:02,520 --> 02:10:05,479
of truth, not the written text. The church produced the

2168
02:10:05,560 --> 02:10:09,760
written text, and so appostolic succession is a presupposition for

2169
02:10:10,279 --> 02:10:13,880
having a collection of books known as the Canon. Secondly,

2170
02:10:13,960 --> 02:10:17,600
I would say that it's just an analogy to the

2171
02:10:18,640 --> 02:10:23,159
Supreme Court to illustrate the principle of normative authority. So

2172
02:10:23,239 --> 02:10:27,880
in philosophy we make a distinction between the individual existential

2173
02:10:28,000 --> 02:10:31,279
dilemma of how do I know which what's the true church.

2174
02:10:31,880 --> 02:10:34,720
It's a separate but kind of related question of what's

2175
02:10:34,720 --> 02:10:37,880
called normative authority in ethics, which is the question of

2176
02:10:38,079 --> 02:10:41,439
is there any body of people that has the authority

2177
02:10:41,560 --> 02:10:45,079
to bind people to an interpretation or to bind consciences,

2178
02:10:45,199 --> 02:10:48,600
and by extension, to excommunicate people, et cetera. So the

2179
02:10:48,720 --> 02:10:52,199
Orthodox argument is that, yes, you do also need It's

2180
02:10:52,279 --> 02:10:54,840
not that the Protestant can't read the Bible and figure

2181
02:10:54,880 --> 02:10:57,279
out things and see, oh, yes, the Bible teaches Jesus

2182
02:10:57,640 --> 02:11:00,199
is divine, he's the son of God, he does the

2183
02:11:00,239 --> 02:11:02,960
cross right protests most of the time get all that correct.

2184
02:11:03,560 --> 02:11:08,840
So it's not necessarily an individual epistemology question. It could be,

2185
02:11:09,560 --> 02:11:13,760
but usually what is that root here is a question

2186
02:11:13,960 --> 02:11:17,680
of did Jesus provide the Church, any historical body of

2187
02:11:17,760 --> 02:11:21,000
people with authority to bind consciences? And that the reason

2188
02:11:21,079 --> 02:11:24,439
I word it that way is that's what directly contrasts

2189
02:11:24,600 --> 02:11:28,880
to the classical Reformation doctrine of freedom of conscience, freedom

2190
02:11:28,960 --> 02:11:33,079
private interpretation. No authorities can bind you to your conscience.

2191
02:11:33,359 --> 02:11:35,840
So do you see how it's two different questions between

2192
02:11:36,279 --> 02:11:43,720
individual existential certitude versus the historical question of a public

2193
02:11:43,880 --> 02:11:46,199
body of people like the Supreme Court, who can bind

2194
02:11:46,239 --> 02:11:47,239
people to an interpretation?

2195
02:11:49,640 --> 02:11:54,039
Speaker 9: Yes, but how would you respond to the idea that

2196
02:11:54,159 --> 02:11:57,039
those that it would be a cop out for someone

2197
02:11:57,039 --> 02:12:00,640
who's used the Orthodox to say, okay, so the person

2198
02:12:00,720 --> 02:12:04,319
who was next to Jesus on the cross, he might

2199
02:12:04,399 --> 02:12:06,760
not have identified as he's in Orthodox, but he was

2200
02:12:06,840 --> 02:12:08,960
just an a noormative path sort of all drains lead

2201
02:12:09,000 --> 02:12:10,920
to the ocean. Or like what about the coal miner

2202
02:12:11,439 --> 02:12:13,720
in early America who has an encounter with the Holy

2203
02:12:13,800 --> 02:12:17,399
Spirit and God starts this movement in him, maybe in

2204
02:12:17,479 --> 02:12:21,199
his family, but he never even hears about the Orthodox Church?

2205
02:12:21,560 --> 02:12:25,359
Speaker 2: Well, Our position is that the normative way that people

2206
02:12:25,439 --> 02:12:27,840
are joined to the mystical Body of Christ, which we

2207
02:12:27,960 --> 02:12:31,399
think is the Orthodox Church, is through baptism and catechisis

2208
02:12:32,239 --> 02:12:34,600
now God has the means by which he can join

2209
02:12:34,640 --> 02:12:38,640
people to that body extra normatively and by his own power.

2210
02:12:38,760 --> 02:12:40,520
So the thief on the cross doesn't have to hear

2211
02:12:40,600 --> 02:12:43,159
the whole message of you know, I mean he didn't

2212
02:12:43,159 --> 02:12:46,039
even he wasn't even alive yet four palls Epistles, a

2213
02:12:46,039 --> 02:12:49,039
book of revelation, right, So it's not the amount of

2214
02:12:49,199 --> 02:12:52,680
knowledge again, it's the attitude of humility. And we believe

2215
02:12:52,760 --> 02:12:55,720
as Orthodox that he actually was joined to the Orthodox Church.

2216
02:12:56,000 --> 02:12:59,119
We don't believe that there's this like later period in

2217
02:12:59,199 --> 02:13:01,760
the seven hundred where there's this entity that pops up

2218
02:13:01,800 --> 02:13:04,399
called the Orthodox Church. We believe and if you read

2219
02:13:04,439 --> 02:13:07,079
the first second, third century Church Fathers, they teach the

2220
02:13:07,159 --> 02:13:10,119
same things for the most part, on the big issues

2221
02:13:10,680 --> 02:13:13,840
that the Church fathers after Nicia teach. So we don't

2222
02:13:13,880 --> 02:13:16,800
believe that there was some vast change, you know, after

2223
02:13:16,880 --> 02:13:19,520
the Council of Nicea as opposed to the pre nicing fathers,

2224
02:13:19,600 --> 02:13:22,720
or that there was some vast change by the prenessing

2225
02:13:22,760 --> 02:13:25,239
Fathers over the teachings of the Apostles. We think they're

2226
02:13:25,239 --> 02:13:27,640
all in harmony. And you can read the post Apostolic

2227
02:13:27,680 --> 02:13:32,319
fathers to see that, you can read Ignacious, you know, Polycarp, Clement,

2228
02:13:32,520 --> 02:13:35,600
all of those things will show you the continuity with

2229
02:13:35,760 --> 02:13:38,239
the teachings of the Apostles. So I don't see that

2230
02:13:38,279 --> 02:13:43,720
would be a cop out. Yeah, that was a great question.

2231
02:13:43,960 --> 02:13:46,039
I feel free to call in anytime now, guys. I've

2232
02:13:46,079 --> 02:13:49,199
got not a whole lot of time left because I

2233
02:13:49,319 --> 02:13:53,119
have a interview a big name person that we're going

2234
02:13:53,159 --> 02:13:55,520
to interview here in a little bit. I don't I

2235
02:13:55,600 --> 02:13:57,760
think we'll just prerecord it. I don't think it'll be live,

2236
02:13:58,199 --> 02:14:00,000
but it'll probably go up in the next few days.

2237
02:14:00,319 --> 02:14:05,159
You'll see who that is important person who left liberalism,

2238
02:14:05,399 --> 02:14:09,680
and so we're gonna talk to her about what prompted

2239
02:14:09,720 --> 02:14:12,600
her to move in that direction, what convinced her of

2240
02:14:13,640 --> 02:14:17,399
the problems of the left, and why she's moved more

2241
02:14:17,439 --> 02:14:19,600
in our direction to all the way where we are.

2242
02:14:19,720 --> 02:14:23,760
But she's left the death cult of the left, the

2243
02:14:23,880 --> 02:14:26,359
left death cult, which is good news. So I'll be

2244
02:14:26,600 --> 02:14:27,880
leaving her in a minute to talk to her. I

2245
02:14:27,920 --> 02:14:31,039
wan to remind you guys too that we have a

2246
02:14:31,159 --> 02:14:34,720
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2247
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2257
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2258
02:15:04,199 --> 02:15:06,000
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love it, especially the ton Catale especially the action to

2260
02:15:08,760 --> 02:15:11,239
point oh chad mode is really intense, so go easy

2261
02:15:11,319 --> 02:15:13,880
on it. It's definitely a great pre workout if you

2262
02:15:13,920 --> 02:15:16,399
want to test it out. But my favorite, of course

2263
02:15:16,560 --> 02:15:19,039
is ton Catalie. That's why I have so much energy

2264
02:15:19,079 --> 02:15:20,600
to do so many streams all the time, and we

2265
02:15:20,720 --> 02:15:24,479
still go into our workouts when we're not struggling with

2266
02:15:24,680 --> 02:15:29,239
freaking stomach aids or whatever. I had for for several

2267
02:15:29,319 --> 02:15:33,720
weeks or two weeks was a nightmare. Walmart welch one dollar.

2268
02:15:33,800 --> 02:15:37,600
Have you heard of Steve Stefan's his Stephan? Then this

2269
02:15:37,680 --> 02:15:40,520
makes me think of Stephan from setting out loud Stephan's

2270
02:15:40,560 --> 02:15:42,840
history of the world, I have not. He's a normy

2271
02:15:42,920 --> 02:15:46,199
science man. He asserts higher criticism as the true history

2272
02:15:46,239 --> 02:15:49,439
of the Hebrews, very much like myth Vision. Well, I

2273
02:15:49,479 --> 02:15:51,520
think you guys all saw that when we did our

2274
02:15:52,479 --> 02:15:56,000
impromptu debate with Derek Mythvision. It didn't go very well.

2275
02:15:56,960 --> 02:15:59,359
Ninety nine percent of the comments we're kind of laughing

2276
02:15:59,399 --> 02:16:01,199
at him and you if you remember, he said he

2277
02:16:01,239 --> 02:16:04,720
would he would be at million or whatever, he would

2278
02:16:04,760 --> 02:16:07,399
have the biggest channel on this stuff by the end

2279
02:16:07,439 --> 02:16:10,119
of the year, and his prophecy did not come true. MKG.

2280
02:16:10,279 --> 02:16:14,239
Five dollars. Sorry, no, I'm more characters. To be specific.

2281
02:16:14,319 --> 02:16:18,680
My question was what are the means by which they

2282
02:16:18,760 --> 02:16:22,199
get the blessing from Isaac. The interpretation that makes sense

2283
02:16:22,239 --> 02:16:24,800
to me was that he was breaking his hip or

2284
02:16:24,840 --> 02:16:29,319
the punishment later down the line. I'm not sure I'd

2285
02:16:29,359 --> 02:16:31,840
have to think about that. MKG. I appreciate the question.

2286
02:16:32,360 --> 02:16:35,520
Maybe remind me in the chat next time, I'll have

2287
02:16:35,600 --> 02:16:37,799
to go and think about I've got a bunch of

2288
02:16:37,840 --> 02:16:39,719
Genesis commentaries. I'll have to think about that. I'm not

2289
02:16:39,760 --> 02:16:42,440
sure Walmart weigh ninety six one dollar? All right? That

2290
02:16:42,600 --> 02:16:45,879
was the normy science man question, Dave two fifty? Can

2291
02:16:45,959 --> 02:16:48,479
you recommend a book? Can I recommend a book? Have

2292
02:16:48,639 --> 02:16:52,159
you read Rulers of the Evil Supper Saucy?

2293
02:16:53,799 --> 02:16:53,840
Speaker 11: No?

2294
02:16:54,079 --> 02:16:56,879
Speaker 2: Never heard of it, man, I highly recommend it. It's

2295
02:16:56,879 --> 02:17:00,879
out of print. It sells for three hundred to two thousands. Okay,

2296
02:17:02,159 --> 02:17:10,440
what's it about Rulers of the Evil Tupper Saucy? What's

2297
02:17:10,479 --> 02:17:10,799
it about?

2298
02:17:10,840 --> 02:17:11,040
Speaker 1: Dude?

2299
02:17:11,079 --> 02:17:14,399
Speaker 2: Sounds crazy? Jony h five dollars twenty five cents. Thank

2300
02:17:14,440 --> 02:17:14,879
you for your work.

2301
02:17:14,959 --> 02:17:15,120
Speaker 1: Jay.

2302
02:17:15,159 --> 02:17:17,680
Speaker 2: What do you think of the massive influx of Islam

2303
02:17:17,760 --> 02:17:21,000
into Europe? Well, I've done many talks on that as

2304
02:17:21,079 --> 02:17:25,559
an older Fabian socialist plan to bring in Islam all

2305
02:17:25,639 --> 02:17:27,799
throughout Europe. If you look up all the books that

2306
02:17:27,840 --> 02:17:31,799
I did on the Milliner Fabian works, they planned one

2307
02:17:31,840 --> 02:17:35,000
hundred years ago Vampire f five dollars. They openly said

2308
02:17:35,000 --> 02:17:37,840
they wanted to do that one hundred years ago. I

2309
02:17:37,920 --> 02:17:40,760
recall you was talking about a scenario where old parties

2310
02:17:42,559 --> 02:17:45,639
would fall out of favor, and then a technocrat would

2311
02:17:45,680 --> 02:17:50,360
run and he would be elected and turn out to

2312
02:17:50,479 --> 02:17:55,120
be a pro surveillance state. Old parties have fallen of

2313
02:17:55,200 --> 02:18:01,079
favor and a technocrat would run. Do you remember the

2314
02:18:01,200 --> 02:18:03,079
video or the book? I'm sorry, I don't remember what

2315
02:18:03,120 --> 02:18:07,719
you're talking about. Old party? Do you mean old political

2316
02:18:07,760 --> 02:18:12,120
parties follow out of favor, a technocrat runs and he's elected,

2317
02:18:12,360 --> 02:18:16,639
and he brings about a surveillance state. I'm not sure.

2318
02:18:20,440 --> 02:18:22,200
I can't think of any books I read like a

2319
02:18:22,319 --> 02:18:25,040
fiction book, a sci fi dystopian book. I can't think

2320
02:18:25,079 --> 02:18:29,840
of anywhere there's any scenario like that. But maybe you

2321
02:18:29,920 --> 02:18:32,200
don't mean a sci fi as maybe a Philip K. Dickbook.

2322
02:18:32,239 --> 02:18:33,680
I don't. I don't know. By the way, we're I

2323
02:18:33,680 --> 02:18:36,479
think we're going to do our next fiction book. I

2324
02:18:36,559 --> 02:18:39,040
think I'm gonna do Ubic by pkd that'll be fun.

2325
02:18:39,639 --> 02:18:42,959
I'm pretty sure Ubik predicted the Internet, right. I haven't

2326
02:18:43,000 --> 02:18:45,040
read it so, but I've heard that, so we'll check

2327
02:18:45,079 --> 02:18:47,079
that out. Andy Mont has three dollars? What's up to day?

2328
02:18:47,079 --> 02:18:51,000
Are there any books that disprove theistic evolution? I mean,

2329
02:18:51,040 --> 02:18:54,079
the most famous is Father Siff from Roses Genesis Creation.

2330
02:18:54,200 --> 02:18:55,959
Really man, guys, remember too that if you go to

2331
02:18:56,000 --> 02:18:58,600
the Jason Alis's shop you can get signed copies of

2332
02:18:58,760 --> 02:19:01,319
esoteric Hollywood and it's going to be a great weird

2333
02:19:01,440 --> 02:19:03,959
Christmas gift if you want to give your relatives and

2334
02:19:03,959 --> 02:19:06,000
your normy relatives to wake them up through movies a

2335
02:19:06,079 --> 02:19:09,280
weird Christmas present. Essotery Hollywood one too. They're all signed

2336
02:19:09,280 --> 02:19:15,120
copies at Jason Alysi's in the shop. I got a

2337
02:19:15,120 --> 02:19:17,079
little bit of time. Let's say if we've got one

2338
02:19:17,120 --> 02:19:20,159
more question here, last question before I have to go

2339
02:19:20,280 --> 02:19:24,000
to this interview. We got like thirteen people. That's crazy.

2340
02:19:27,799 --> 02:19:31,000
Next in line is Dan. What's up? Dan?

2341
02:19:38,239 --> 02:19:42,840
Speaker 27: Hey there, Yeah, I just gotta I got a question

2342
02:19:42,920 --> 02:19:44,479
for you. It's not so much at debate. You said

2343
02:19:44,520 --> 02:19:47,520
earlier in the chat that you'd be willing to answer questions.

2344
02:19:47,600 --> 02:19:49,079
That's still true you look at your debate.

2345
02:19:50,239 --> 02:19:50,520
Speaker 9: Okay.

2346
02:19:50,920 --> 02:19:53,760
Speaker 27: I was listening to a lecturer last night that John

2347
02:19:53,840 --> 02:19:57,719
Lennox did at the Stanford School of Medicine that was

2348
02:19:57,840 --> 02:19:58,120
kind of.

2349
02:19:58,120 --> 02:19:59,639
Speaker 1: About suffering, and.

2350
02:20:01,200 --> 02:20:03,120
Speaker 27: You could imagine that they probably they have to deal

2351
02:20:03,200 --> 02:20:05,200
with a lot of crazy things like kids with cancer

2352
02:20:05,239 --> 02:20:07,600
and stuff like that. Now I'm not gonna ask the

2353
02:20:07,680 --> 02:20:12,479
question of why do suffering happening happen? But what it

2354
02:20:12,559 --> 02:20:17,159
did make me think about is if we are just

2355
02:20:17,239 --> 02:20:19,600
supposed to be thankful when things don't turn out our

2356
02:20:19,680 --> 02:20:24,440
way with prayer, Like why do we pray if we're

2357
02:20:24,440 --> 02:20:26,280
supposed to be thankful in the moments that things don't

2358
02:20:26,319 --> 02:20:28,360
work out, because that's God's plan for us and he

2359
02:20:28,479 --> 02:20:31,319
must want us to learn something. If we're just gonna

2360
02:20:31,360 --> 02:20:34,319
get whatever we're gonna get, why do why would we pray?

2361
02:20:34,600 --> 02:20:37,879
Because it almost to me it kind of comes down

2362
02:20:37,959 --> 02:20:41,239
to like a free will question, like why pray if.

2363
02:20:41,120 --> 02:20:41,799
Speaker 1: We're just gonna get?

2364
02:20:41,959 --> 02:20:43,879
Speaker 2: No, we don't just get whatever we're going to get.

2365
02:20:44,319 --> 02:20:48,760
I mean, God has chosen to condescend to have a

2366
02:20:48,879 --> 02:20:52,000
reciprocal relationship. So there's a really good paper that doctor

2367
02:20:52,079 --> 02:20:57,520
Bradshaw wrote about reciprocity. I think it's his. Uh, it's

2368
02:20:57,559 --> 02:20:59,200
in his book on the Energy is the one that's

2369
02:20:59,239 --> 02:21:02,040
collectionable the say there's a section in the first essay

2370
02:21:02,079 --> 02:21:06,520
that talks about God willing and wanting to have reciprocity.

2371
02:21:06,559 --> 02:21:08,200
So it's not the case that we're just going to

2372
02:21:08,280 --> 02:21:12,360
get whatever we get. We actually wants us to participate,

2373
02:21:12,399 --> 02:21:16,239
and he's chosen to react to those that do pray

2374
02:21:16,479 --> 02:21:17,600
and talk to him.

2375
02:21:18,920 --> 02:21:22,239
Speaker 27: So there's if we do pray, there's I guess potential

2376
02:21:22,360 --> 02:21:26,440
that we could swim in one direction or another.

2377
02:21:26,520 --> 02:21:27,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean if you read the Book of Amos,

2378
02:21:27,959 --> 02:21:29,319
so that's the whole point of the Book of Amos.

2379
02:21:29,399 --> 02:21:32,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much, sir.

2380
02:21:32,280 --> 02:21:37,399
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I thought there was a video

2381
02:21:37,600 --> 02:21:41,760
recently about this that popped up that was gonna share it,

2382
02:21:41,799 --> 02:21:48,200
but I don't see it anyway. Yeah, it's a look

2383
02:21:48,280 --> 02:21:50,479
up Bradshaw and reciprocity. All right, Thank you guys. A

2384
02:21:50,520 --> 02:21:54,639
lot of great discussions today overall, pretty good comments from everybody.

2385
02:21:55,680 --> 02:21:58,239
You can support my work right here through the bitcoin

2386
02:21:58,440 --> 02:22:00,120
while at QR code if you want to support with

2387
02:22:00,159 --> 02:22:04,239
bitcoin right there. Thank you guys, and everybody, have a

2388
02:22:04,799 --> 02:22:09,799
wonderful week. Remember that tomorrow, I think that tomorrow once, Yeah,

2389
02:22:09,799 --> 02:22:12,879
we're going to be doing our British spies that made

2390
02:22:12,920 --> 02:22:17,200
the modern world. This excellent book by French historian Galsmunier,

2391
02:22:17,680 --> 02:22:20,760
and we'll be talking about all these famous British spies

2392
02:22:20,840 --> 02:22:23,399
and Napoleonic ara spies which I didn't know anything about

2393
02:22:23,479 --> 02:22:26,440
Napoleonic ara spies. These people were crazy, dude. They were

2394
02:22:26,479 --> 02:22:30,680
doing some wild stuff. And it's crucial to understanding how

2395
02:22:30,719 --> 02:22:33,719
we got the modern world. How did the Middle East

2396
02:22:33,799 --> 02:22:35,639
come to be how it is. Well, you can't understand

2397
02:22:35,639 --> 02:22:38,479
that without understanding the Napoleonic era and the British Empire.

2398
02:22:38,920 --> 02:22:42,479
Napoleon wanted to take all of these areas from the

2399
02:22:42,520 --> 02:22:45,239
British Empire. He didn't succeed in doing that, but this

2400
02:22:45,440 --> 02:22:47,440
led to where we are today in the modern world,

2401
02:22:48,920 --> 02:22:52,479
with the carving up of much of the Middle East

2402
02:22:52,680 --> 02:22:54,319
and what's going on there today. So you have to

2403
02:22:54,440 --> 02:22:56,799
understand this background. You need to know who these people are.

2404
02:22:56,840 --> 02:23:02,000
They're very famous spies and operatives, and nobody talks about this.

2405
02:23:02,360 --> 02:23:05,680
Nobody ever mentions these histories except over here on my channel.

2406
02:23:06,120 --> 02:23:08,040
And hope you guys appreciate it. We'll be talking about

2407
02:23:08,040 --> 02:23:11,559
that tomorrow in the afternoon as we cover Black Gold

2408
02:23:11,639 --> 02:23:15,360
Spies and the T. E. Lawrence type material. Everybody, have

2409
02:23:15,399 --> 02:23:15,799
a good night.