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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to Mythic Mind, where we pursue whism

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<v Speaker 1>of the past between primary and secondary worlds. I'm your host, AREW. Snyder,

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<v Speaker 1>and I am always grateful for your company. So obviously

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<v Speaker 1>we're doing things a little bit differently here, I guess

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<v Speaker 1>I should say obviously if you are watching the video

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<v Speaker 1>on this because I've been posting our interviews to YouTube

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<v Speaker 1>for a little while now, this is the first time

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<v Speaker 1>I'm recording a video intro, and so if you are

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<v Speaker 1>listening to this on the Mythic Mind podcast, then know

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<v Speaker 1>that you can watch the full video as well. I

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<v Speaker 1>leave a link to that in the show notes, and

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<v Speaker 1>so go ahead and subscribe to my YouTube channel. And

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<v Speaker 1>if you're watching this on YouTube, then know that you

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<v Speaker 1>can also listen to this as a podcast, and so

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<v Speaker 1>if that's of interest to you, then make sure that

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<v Speaker 1>you also subscribe to the Mythic Mind Legacy podcast on

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<v Speaker 1>any podcast app of your choice. Well, today I come

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<v Speaker 1>to you from the plaines of Rohan, as you can

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<v Speaker 1>see if you're watching the video, so that we can

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<v Speaker 1>discuss the War of the Row. Herem the recent Lord

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<v Speaker 1>of the Rings, anime that takes place within the Jackson

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<v Speaker 1>verse looking at the story of hellm haammer Hand and

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<v Speaker 1>some of the story that surrounds his life, as we

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<v Speaker 1>get in the short appendix at the end of Lord

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<v Speaker 1>of the Rings. Now, I was fairly skeptical going into

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<v Speaker 1>this movie. I was not really expecting it to be great.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact that I was actually expecting it to be

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<v Speaker 1>pretty bad. But I just I like to know what's

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<v Speaker 1>going on in the world of Tolkien media, and so

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<v Speaker 1>I just I wanted to experience it. And I'm someone

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<v Speaker 1>who wants these things to succeed. Even though I may

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<v Speaker 1>have some criticisms, I go into these wanting to enjoy them,

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<v Speaker 1>and fortunately that's what I did. I enjoyed this movie.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't the ideological slot fest that I kind of

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<v Speaker 1>thought it might be. No, I actually thought that it

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<v Speaker 1>was quite good, and I'll get into some of the

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<v Speaker 1>reasons for that in the cover station that ensues as

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<v Speaker 1>I bringing a couple other guys to talk about our

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<v Speaker 1>first impressions about this film. Now, I do want to

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<v Speaker 1>emphasize that these are first impressions. All of us have

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<v Speaker 1>only seen this movie one time. It had just come

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<v Speaker 1>out just a few days before we recorded this, and

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<v Speaker 1>so some of our thoughts may change over time, but overall,

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<v Speaker 1>like I said, I enjoyed the movie and I thought

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<v Speaker 1>this was a good conversation, So let's go ahead and

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<v Speaker 1>bring that in. All right, Welcome to Mythic Mind, where

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to discuss the new Lord of the Rings

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<v Speaker 1>movie the War of the Row hero. Definitely some mixed

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<v Speaker 1>thoughts even in this conversation we're about to have here.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm joined by Thomas Lerno, who many of you have

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<v Speaker 1>heard from many times up to this point, as well

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<v Speaker 1>as Master Sam Wise, who runs well we can tell

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<v Speaker 1>us a little bit about the kind of stuff he's into,

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<v Speaker 1>but he runs it seems to be a pretty pretty

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<v Speaker 1>high engagement YouTube channel covering Tolkien stories adjacent no insultant,

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<v Speaker 1>tided nerd material, and so let's just start with brief

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<v Speaker 1>introductions here. Sam, can you tell us just a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit more about what it is that you do and

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<v Speaker 1>kind of what you bring to the table.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so first off, thanks for having me on. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>excited to talk about this, especial because we have somewhat

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<v Speaker 2>of a different.

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<v Speaker 3>Opinion on Worthy here.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's just be I expect a good conversation, but yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I run the Master Samwis Channel, which the tagline for

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<v Speaker 2>that channel is essays on the Stories that really matter, right,

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<v Speaker 2>obviously borrowing that phrase from Tolkien. I think Sam says

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<v Speaker 2>that in the book to say it at some point,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to sometimes my memory of the books and

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<v Speaker 2>the movies do get completed. But anyhow, so the longer

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<v Speaker 2>thesis being that stories change us in ways that we

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<v Speaker 2>may not even realize, and so the goal of the

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<v Speaker 2>channel is to elucidate the truths that these stories speak

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<v Speaker 2>and how they can and should affect us in you know,

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<v Speaker 2>ways that we may not have even noticed.

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<v Speaker 4>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's taking even stories of pagan worlds like the

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<v Speaker 2>God of War video games, and how like the characters

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<v Speaker 2>do in fact portray you know, universalized Christian motifs, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, through through their growth that they go through,

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<v Speaker 2>their themes are very much, you know, pointing towards God.

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<v Speaker 2>Even if I don't usually explicitly state that in the channel, right,

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<v Speaker 2>it's you know, it's not I don't know, agnostic by

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<v Speaker 2>any means, but it's just not something I make a

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<v Speaker 2>habit of shouting from the rooftops and kind of let

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<v Speaker 2>it just seep in. Basically, So yeah, that's the basis

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<v Speaker 2>of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Side note. I love the Rohan flag in your your background.

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<v Speaker 3>Versus that I was. It was a while ago.

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<v Speaker 1>One of my favorites. Cool now, Thomas, You're probably tired

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<v Speaker 1>of introducing yourself onto my show, but things like this

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<v Speaker 1>tend to bring in some new people, and so tell

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<v Speaker 1>us little bit about yourself as well.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I'm an author.

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<v Speaker 6>Writer, podcaster. I wear a lot of hats. People watch

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<v Speaker 6>this show might be interested to know that I do

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<v Speaker 6>a lot.

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<v Speaker 5>Of my podcasting for the Starquest Production Network or SQPN.

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<v Speaker 5>You can find us on YouTube and anywhere you get

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<v Speaker 5>your podcasts. I'm the regular host and sometimes, you know,

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<v Speaker 5>sometimes I don't host, sometimes I'm the panelist. But I'm

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<v Speaker 5>a regular host on the Secrets of Middle Earth podcasts

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<v Speaker 5>that we do. We have episodes that come out pretty

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<v Speaker 5>much twice a month now for that show, and you know,

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<v Speaker 5>we cover everything related to Tolkien, you know, from the

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<v Speaker 5>books to the movies to you know, the Rings of

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<v Speaker 5>Power to this film.

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<v Speaker 3>We just recorded our review for this film, so I'm.

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<v Speaker 5>Excited to talk about it again because you know, I I.

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<v Speaker 6>Talk about talking to anyone who will listen, so.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, as do probably many, many of us and those

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<v Speaker 1>of us who are who are listening right now. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think this will be interesting conversation because, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Thomas and I both seem to be at least mostly

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<v Speaker 1>favorable toward this movie. I know Sam is not, although

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm sure that if this conversation spills into broader

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<v Speaker 1>territory at all, you know, we probably have some differences

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to Rings of Power as well. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that Thomas is probably more favorable, though maybe

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<v Speaker 1>I'm wrong about that. I don't put words in your mouth,

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<v Speaker 1>but we enjoy it for.

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<v Speaker 6>What it is.

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<v Speaker 7>I you know, I don't think it's the greatest show

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<v Speaker 7>ever or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 5>I enjoyed it, and you know, I.

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<v Speaker 7>Think if you listen to our reviews of the show,

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<v Speaker 7>we were broadly favorable, though we definitely you know, had

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<v Speaker 7>our problems with it and went on at length about that.

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<v Speaker 6>But yeah, no, I I enjoy it.

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<v Speaker 5>As one of the most expensive bits of fan fiction

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<v Speaker 5>ever made.

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<v Speaker 1>I could actually mostly sympathize with that it's expensive fan fiction.

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<v Speaker 1>But uh, oh well, I guess we already brushed the subject. Sam,

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<v Speaker 1>what do you think of a Ring's Power? Real quickly?

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<v Speaker 2>So I watched the first season in its entirety back

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<v Speaker 2>when it around, when it came out, and then I

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<v Speaker 2>watched the first three episodes of the second season and

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<v Speaker 2>never bothered watching anything more than that. It I certainly

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<v Speaker 2>don't hate it as much as I've seen.

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<v Speaker 3>People hate it.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's particularly well written. I think the

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<v Speaker 2>characters suffer from a lot of inconsistencies.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>And that affects Glad Real Lever, Gladial to gil Galad

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<v Speaker 2>to Dura Duran during the third and.

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<v Speaker 3>It just it was it was really boring.

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<v Speaker 2>I was my wife and I watched the first two

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<v Speaker 2>episodes of the second season together and it was just

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<v Speaker 2>like I was falling asleep, we were both falling asleep.

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<v Speaker 2>And she had no interest in watching the third episode.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is I'm a fairly harsh critic of stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>especially for stuff that's connected to a world that I love,

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<v Speaker 2>that I grew up with, that I have very very

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<v Speaker 2>strong attachment to.

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<v Speaker 3>My life. Is a less harsh critic.

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<v Speaker 2>So when she has no interest in watching something, no

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<v Speaker 2>one you know, continuing to watch something, uh, that that's

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<v Speaker 2>kind of a it's a good, good, uh good bar

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<v Speaker 2>for me to set, like Okay, this is not just

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<v Speaker 2>me being irrationally critical.

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<v Speaker 1>That's fair, and yeah, it's I really want to enjoy

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<v Speaker 1>Tolkien media, Like, I don't want to be super critical.

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<v Speaker 1>I hate this, you know, I don't want to be

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<v Speaker 1>that guy. And so I've kind of talked myself into

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<v Speaker 1>tolerating Rings of Power as kind of expensive, superficial fanfiction.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's shallow, but at the same time, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>even in our current culture, as far as like mainstream

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<v Speaker 1>fantasy goes, even an echo of an echo of Tolkien

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<v Speaker 1>has at least some merits to it, even if it's

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<v Speaker 1>not what it could be.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, if there if there are things you can glean

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<v Speaker 2>from Rings of Power, and there's i mean there's more

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<v Speaker 2>cleaning for more of their hero Yeah, that speak to

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<v Speaker 2>the truths that Tolkien talks about that have you know,

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<v Speaker 2>even just little bits of his philosophy and his his

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<v Speaker 2>worldview that are dropped in there, then that's great, right,

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<v Speaker 2>If if you get that out of there, that's fantastic.

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<v Speaker 5>Right, And that that's basically the point of like of

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<v Speaker 5>the podcast, I do secrets have been alerted where it's like,

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<v Speaker 5>if we can find anything, you know, that brings us

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<v Speaker 5>back to to Tolkien where we'll go on and on

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<v Speaker 5>about it.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, right, I mean, as long as they're not

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<v Speaker 1>being it's clearly like, yeah, intentionally subversive in like major

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<v Speaker 1>philosophical way. It's like, I'm actually, I don't want them

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<v Speaker 1>to tink you with the plot the lower more than

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<v Speaker 1>they have to to adapt it to a story. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't want that. I can tolerate that. The only the

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<v Speaker 1>only times when I go like hardcore critic is when

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like there are philosophical subversions. And I mean

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<v Speaker 1>there's some of that, but I don't feel like it's

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<v Speaker 1>nearly as bad as it could be. And then maybe

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<v Speaker 1>I'm showing them too much. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, everything exists on a slider scale. Peter Jackson

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<v Speaker 2>changed the characters in significant ways in some points and

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<v Speaker 2>certain plot points.

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<v Speaker 3>To me, I have a whole.

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<v Speaker 2>Video on why the Army of the Dead is BS,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know I named it as such because it

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<v Speaker 2>is severely cheap into the victory of men for one thing,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know it didn't make sense within the law anyhow.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, so like that, there there's a whole sliding

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<v Speaker 2>scale of it, right. I think Peter Jackson's did a

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<v Speaker 2>much much better job. I would never I don't equate

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<v Speaker 2>the two. Peter Jackson's movies far outstrip up anything that's

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<v Speaker 2>come since the Lord of the Rings trilogy. To be specific,

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<v Speaker 2>he did make three other movies.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't talk about that.

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<v Speaker 5>That's a running gag on our show on the Secrets

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<v Speaker 5>of Biddle Earth that we always like, we we bring

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<v Speaker 5>up the Hobbit movies and then we're like, there's our

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<v Speaker 5>contractually obligated reference to the Hobbit trilogy. It's like, we

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<v Speaker 5>haven't reviewed them yet, and we're kind of teasing fans

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<v Speaker 5>because we keep bringing it up and then we.

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<v Speaker 6>End up not reviewing it. But we'll get to them eventually.

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<v Speaker 3>There is no movie in Bossing say.

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<v Speaker 1>See, I actually have not even watched all of them

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<v Speaker 1>through I've earlier this year, I finally decided, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna give it a shot. And maybe I shouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>have started with the extended edition. And I don't know, but.

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<v Speaker 2>There's an extended edition of them. There's an ext I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't know there's an extent I've I've only seen the

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<v Speaker 2>first two. To be clear, I've never bothered watching the

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<v Speaker 2>Bottle of Five Armies but I didn't realize there was

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<v Speaker 2>an extended edition of these.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm like, I felt like that's what I needed

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<v Speaker 1>to do. I made it Goblin.

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<v Speaker 5>The extended edition of of Unexpected Journey is so poorly edited,

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<v Speaker 5>like they just jammed those deleted scenes in there, and

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<v Speaker 5>they actually break continuity with the rest of the movie,

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<v Speaker 5>not like the extended editions of the of the original

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<v Speaker 5>Lord of the Rings films.

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<v Speaker 6>The correct ver. Yeah, the extended editions are bust.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's like but with the Hobbit at least I

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<v Speaker 5>can only speak to that first one. But in terms

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<v Speaker 5>of the extended edition, but it's so badly edited, it's

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<v Speaker 5>it wow.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, yeah, I said I made it to Goblin Town.

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<v Speaker 1>Got distracted.

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<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah, that's where some of the worst editing snaffoos

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<v Speaker 5>are in Goblin Town.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but okay, we're we're starting to hit like every

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<v Speaker 1>to hear. But let's bring it back to now before

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<v Speaker 1>we get into our thoughts of you know what we

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<v Speaker 1>walked out with, And I should say that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>this movie just came out. I don't know about you guys.

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<v Speaker 1>I've only seen it one time, which yeah, makes reviews

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit difficult. Because I know some things kind

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<v Speaker 1>of need to grow on you. You kind of need to

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<v Speaker 1>see it more than once. So these are all just

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<v Speaker 1>first impressions coming out here. But before you even went

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<v Speaker 1>into the movie, i'd be interested in knowing what you

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<v Speaker 1>were expecting, just based off any promotional material of seeing

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<v Speaker 1>trailers whatever, Like what were your thoughts? Were you optimistic,

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<v Speaker 1>were you just kind of hopeful? Were you pessimistic? Like

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<v Speaker 1>what were you expecting going in? Sam? What are you

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<v Speaker 1>thinking about going into it?

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<v Speaker 3>I was highly skeptical.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I said this in my review, but I'm

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<v Speaker 2>just highly skeptical going into everything nowadays, especially for stuff

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<v Speaker 2>that is in a world that I love, because I've

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<v Speaker 2>been hurt so many times. My favorite, one of my

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<v Speaker 2>favorite shows that's come out in recent years was and Or,

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<v Speaker 2>and I've been a Star Wars fan as long as

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<v Speaker 2>I can remember.

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<v Speaker 3>And I didn't watch and Or for.

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<v Speaker 2>At least until several months after it was all completely

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<v Speaker 2>done with its twelve episode run, because I went you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I liked Rugue one.

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<v Speaker 3>I liked it a lot, actually, but it was like

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<v Speaker 3>he was a fine character. I guess I'm not really

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<v Speaker 3>that interested. And then I just kept hearing good things.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I guess I'll check this out because I but

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<v Speaker 2>I'd been burned too many times.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll be on Kenobi Show.

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<v Speaker 2>The Bubba Fet Show, Rings of Power, and who knows

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<v Speaker 2>what else. And so I was very very skeptical going

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<v Speaker 2>in for sure, and it honestly was probably better than

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<v Speaker 2>I expected it to be.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think it's fair. And you know, I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 1>be careful leough to derailist on Star Wars now, but

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<v Speaker 1>I can I can definitely sympathize with that. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I you know, I watched a couple of seasons of

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<v Speaker 1>Mandalorian Boba Fet, but after.

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<v Speaker 3>That then is very bad.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I never saw it. I mean, I got to

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<v Speaker 1>a point where and I can't even believe I say

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<v Speaker 1>this ten years ago, I wouldn't believe it. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>really care about Star Wars anymore. I just feel like

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<v Speaker 1>it's just sort of fizzled out for me for so

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<v Speaker 1>many reasons. But again, it's not a Star Wars podcast. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>So uh, all right, fair enough, You're you're very skeptical

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<v Speaker 1>for I think some some good reasons. Thomas, What were

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<v Speaker 1>you thinking of going into this?

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<v Speaker 6>I was broadly.

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<v Speaker 5>Optimistic going into this, I had my concerns, but uh,

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<v Speaker 5>I liked the trailers that I had seen. The director

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<v Speaker 5>of this film also directed The Ninth Jedi, which was

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<v Speaker 5>one of my favorite of the Star Wars anime shorts that.

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<v Speaker 6>They released, so, you know, bringing back to Star Wars again.

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<v Speaker 1>But uh but.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and I was like, well, I really really liked

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<v Speaker 5>the Ninth Jedi. I think he'll probably do a good

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<v Speaker 5>job in the Lord of the Rings universe.

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<v Speaker 6>So yeah, I I did have.

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<v Speaker 5>My concerns in terms of lore and stuff and how

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<v Speaker 5>they were going to handle some of the characters.

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<v Speaker 6>But when coming out of the.

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<v Speaker 5>Movie, I was broadly pleased with with what they did.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 5>So I I found my uh my optimism rewarded a

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<v Speaker 5>little when I came out. Yeah, I thought, definitely it

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<v Speaker 5>was superior, obviously superior to the Rings of Power in

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<v Speaker 5>terms of the lore area. I I basically I think

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<v Speaker 5>my the first thing I said when I came out

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<v Speaker 5>was that it was respectful to the lore the way

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<v Speaker 5>a Jackson Verse movie should be, unlike.

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<v Speaker 6>Some of it, like the Hobbit, like the Hobbit movies.

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<v Speaker 5>But anyway, yeah, so, uh, yeah, I was broadly optimistic

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<v Speaker 5>going in and felt good coming out, So I definitely

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<v Speaker 5>think it's it's worth seeing if you're a Tolkien fan.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, when when when I first heard the concept, that's

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<v Speaker 1>very interested. I mean, yeah, I love Rohan, I love

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<v Speaker 1>the Anglo Saxon vibes. You know that the the area

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<v Speaker 1>of the law is definitely appealing to me. And the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that they're dealing with an appendix and part of

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<v Speaker 1>appendix that's relatively short means that they have some good

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<v Speaker 1>free range to tell a story without breaking the law,

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<v Speaker 1>if you know, if they did it right, and I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like they largely accomplished as far as I'm concerned.

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<v Speaker 1>But once the trailer started getting released and some of

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<v Speaker 1>the other promotional material, I was very very skeptical about

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<v Speaker 1>what we were walking into. I kind of expect there's

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<v Speaker 1>gonna be another glad real girl boss situation where you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you have your one female protagonist who you know, as

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<v Speaker 1>Tolkien gives us, isn't doesn't even have a name, right,

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<v Speaker 1>it's such a minor character, and now she's gonna be

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<v Speaker 1>the main character who's just gonna you know, defeat all

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<v Speaker 1>the bad guy, save the day, and you know, do

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<v Speaker 1>everything all by yourself. I was kind of expecting that

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<v Speaker 1>sort of vibe now very I was. That's not what

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<v Speaker 1>I saw when I saw the movie. I was very

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<v Speaker 1>pleasantly surprised, not to mention the fact that also I

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<v Speaker 1>kind of have not just not necessary prejudice, but as

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<v Speaker 1>far as like interest level goes sort of prejudiced against

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<v Speaker 1>anime and that's just not my thing, Like, it's not

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<v Speaker 1>something I've ever really been interested in. The last time

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<v Speaker 1>I watched the anime show there were one hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>fifty Pokemon. That kind of goes back to the when

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<v Speaker 1>I last watched anime, and so just you know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>not a domain that I'm just really used to naturally

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<v Speaker 1>drawn to. But you know, and so on that level,

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<v Speaker 1>as far as the art of the animation, and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not a very good critic because I don't really know

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<v Speaker 1>that scene very well and so just kind of walking

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<v Speaker 1>into it someone that's an outsider, I mean, I thought

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<v Speaker 1>it was done pretty well. I felt like it was

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<v Speaker 1>good animation, you know, artist Thry. They didn't disrupt the

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<v Speaker 1>plot fundamentally, and I felt like the changes they did

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<v Speaker 1>make were reasonable for storytelling, and so overall, I was

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<v Speaker 1>very pleasantly and so I'm not gonna say this is

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<v Speaker 1>the best written thing or the best talking thing ever.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that, you know, the Jackson Lord of the Rings.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think it's it's better. But at the

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<v Speaker 1>same time, I enjoyed it, and it's something that I

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<v Speaker 1>want to see again, and so overall is pleasantly surprised.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what you said earlier about it's hard for me

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<v Speaker 2>to review stuff after seeing it one time. Right, I

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<v Speaker 2>formed my initial opinion of it. I made my review

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<v Speaker 2>based off of that. I talked about it, said to

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<v Speaker 2>my wife, you know, I'm gonna review it based on

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<v Speaker 2>how I feel now. I might watch it again and

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<v Speaker 2>feel differently. Like that's the tough thing, you know. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't generally review movies that have just come out. I

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<v Speaker 2>review stuff that has been out for a long time

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<v Speaker 2>and do character analyzes of characters. One but very well

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<v Speaker 2>familiar with that. I watched two or three times before

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<v Speaker 2>even making a video, because I don't like going in,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, making something that I'm not quite sure of. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, this is not you know, this is kind

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<v Speaker 2>of a it's very much a snapshot of my opinion

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<v Speaker 2>at the time. It's it's very it's something I would

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<v Speaker 2>like to see this again. Rings the Power, I have

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<v Speaker 2>no interest in ever seeing again. I have, but like

385
00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:08.279
<v Speaker 2>were their harem, Yeah absolutely. And if you said this

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<v Speaker 2>is your your favorite Tolkien you know, adaptation since two

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<v Speaker 2>thousand and three, I honestly I might even agree.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I And I think that says something. Just the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that it's something that you know, that you you

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<v Speaker 1>know right now at least first impressions. You' you're pretty

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00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:27.960
<v Speaker 1>critical of the movie, but something that you want to

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<v Speaker 1>see again. That says something about it. And I totally

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<v Speaker 1>agree with Rings of Power. Now I've seen every episode

394
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<v Speaker 1>that comes out. I'll keep watching just because I like

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<v Speaker 1>to know what people are doing in the Tolkien media universe.

396
00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:41.920
<v Speaker 1>But it's not something I'm ever going to rewatch, unlike

397
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<v Speaker 1>you know, the Lord of the Rings movies, which I've

398
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<v Speaker 1>watched on a very regular basis. So what would you say, Sam,

399
00:20:50.680 --> 00:20:52.680
<v Speaker 1>since you're you're the most critical of this, what are

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00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:54.880
<v Speaker 1>your major criticisms of what they did wrong or what

401
00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:55.599
<v Speaker 1>you just didn't like?

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<v Speaker 2>So one of the biggest things that really soured me

403
00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:01.839
<v Speaker 2>on the movie was that they very clearly were going

404
00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:04.240
<v Speaker 2>for the vibe of, hey, you remember.

405
00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:05.039
<v Speaker 3>Jackson's Lord of the rings.

406
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<v Speaker 2>That was I mean, it was straight in the beginning

407
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<v Speaker 2>of the trailer, right, you know, remember Peter Jackson. And

408
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:14.000
<v Speaker 2>then you had I think I think it's at south

409
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<v Speaker 2>Park that has like the member Berrys, that's their bet.

410
00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:18.039
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I don't generally watch south Park, but

411
00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:20.200
<v Speaker 2>like that's you know, it's again remember this, Remember that

412
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:22.240
<v Speaker 2>you had the Mamma kill. You had the Watcher in

413
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<v Speaker 2>the water, which I'm sure that breaks some more being

414
00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:26.559
<v Speaker 2>in Rohan, but whatever, I don't really care about that.

415
00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:27.680
<v Speaker 3>It was just but it was one of the things.

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<v Speaker 2>And then you had the whole the battle outside of

417
00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:35.160
<v Speaker 2>outside of Ederas was very much their charge. There was

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00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:36.920
<v Speaker 2>very much like we're trying to make this as much

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<v Speaker 2>like the charge at the poll in our fields.

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<v Speaker 3>As we can.

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<v Speaker 2>And there are a couple of the moments, Oh you

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<v Speaker 2>had in similar venue had a frail off showing up

423
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:48.119
<v Speaker 2>at Helm's Deep and laving the charge down the slope

424
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:52.079
<v Speaker 2>like Gandalf and Amerd the movie. I'm sure there were

425
00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:54.359
<v Speaker 2>a couple of things I'm missing, but there were. You

426
00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:57.880
<v Speaker 2>had the the Orcs pulling rings off dead bodies, as

427
00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:00.400
<v Speaker 2>if that was going to find the one ring that

428
00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:03.920
<v Speaker 2>basically there is Gandalf showing up at the end and

429
00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:06.920
<v Speaker 2>or being mentioned at the end of Sarmon shows at

430
00:22:06.920 --> 00:22:09.599
<v Speaker 2>the end. But yeah, and so it felt like that

431
00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:11.400
<v Speaker 2>was the vibe they were going for, was, Hey, you

432
00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:12.359
<v Speaker 2>remember this, you remember this?

433
00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:14.519
<v Speaker 3>You remember this? Like, yeah, I remember, don't remind me.

434
00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:15.920
<v Speaker 2>I'd rather be watch remind me of that, but I'd

435
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:19.319
<v Speaker 2>rather be watching that movie. And then my other main

436
00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:21.359
<v Speaker 2>criticism is, like, I care a lot about characters and

437
00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:24.240
<v Speaker 2>character arcs, and I think Harrah's had a decent one

438
00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:28.079
<v Speaker 2>if they'd ended differently, because they kind of just they

439
00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:30.359
<v Speaker 2>they she kind of she did did go through a struggle,

440
00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:34.079
<v Speaker 2>she went through even some despair, and she came out hopeful.

441
00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:36.759
<v Speaker 2>There are two moments that I think I would have

442
00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:40.640
<v Speaker 2>done differently, And there's one where Wolf asks her, like

443
00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:42.839
<v Speaker 2>during their duels, like who are you pledged to? I

444
00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:46.200
<v Speaker 2>believe something like that, and she says death, Yeah, remember

445
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:49.480
<v Speaker 2>it correctly, And she should have said my people or

446
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:54.119
<v Speaker 2>my family, in my opinion, because that makes her I

447
00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:56.160
<v Speaker 2>feel like her arc had been one of growth to

448
00:22:56.279 --> 00:22:59.599
<v Speaker 2>duty towards the people. The narrator rand Auto starts out

449
00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:02.799
<v Speaker 2>by telling us that she is, you know, wild, headstrong,

450
00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:06.000
<v Speaker 2>and free, something to that effect, and then she ends

451
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.039
<v Speaker 2>the movie by telling us that she is wild, headstrong,

452
00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:11.319
<v Speaker 2>and free, and I would have reshaped that arc to

453
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:14.759
<v Speaker 2>be one of growth into you know, leadership and responsibility,

454
00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:16.920
<v Speaker 2>which is what she takes on. But then at the

455
00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:20.599
<v Speaker 2>end she just kind of doesn't because they had to

456
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:23.480
<v Speaker 2>stick to the lore they felt, they felt that they

457
00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:25.200
<v Speaker 2>had to stay with the littleer A frail off actually

458
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:28.640
<v Speaker 2>becomes the you know, the first camp second line, and

459
00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Harrah just goes off.

460
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:30.960
<v Speaker 3>She's she's still loyal.

461
00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:32.839
<v Speaker 2>She tells him, you know, like, you have my sword

462
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:36.200
<v Speaker 2>if you need it. But I feel like they could

463
00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:40.759
<v Speaker 2>have handled her arc better. Helm, I feel was was

464
00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:43.279
<v Speaker 2>was changed from the from the book, and just in

465
00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:46.079
<v Speaker 2>small ways, but ways that I think matter where he

466
00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:50.680
<v Speaker 2>starts a more honorable brawl with uh Prekka and let's

467
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:52.759
<v Speaker 2>get the first punch. And if you read the again,

468
00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:54.400
<v Speaker 2>it's a it's a couple of lines, but it really

469
00:23:54.440 --> 00:23:58.720
<v Speaker 2>sounds like Helm sucker punches him, and then yeah, so

470
00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:01.160
<v Speaker 2>there just wasn't and then wasn't enough Helm. They've made

471
00:24:01.160 --> 00:24:03.599
<v Speaker 2>Helm a little too honorable in my opinion, Like Helm

472
00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:08.680
<v Speaker 2>is a consummate warrior and leader, but he's not the

473
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:12.440
<v Speaker 2>sense that I get from the Again, the paragraph in

474
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:16.920
<v Speaker 2>the appendix is that he's not the most honorable and

475
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:19.319
<v Speaker 2>that his his ambition and his probably did lead a

476
00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:23.279
<v Speaker 2>little bit to his downfall, which you get that sense

477
00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:25.480
<v Speaker 2>somewhat in the movie, but could have been explored more.

478
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:28.759
<v Speaker 2>And then I'm talking a lot, So I'll finish with

479
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:33.440
<v Speaker 2>this thought her Harrah's brothers, they had some good, like

480
00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:35.559
<v Speaker 2>kind of heroic moments. I felt we didn't spend enough

481
00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:37.519
<v Speaker 2>time with them. I didn't get to know them very well,

482
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:41.559
<v Speaker 2>and I would have liked to. So that's my main criticisms.

483
00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:45.599
<v Speaker 5>And here's the interesting thing, Sam, I don't disagree with anything.

484
00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:48.839
<v Speaker 6>You just say this just for me.

485
00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:52.799
<v Speaker 5>All of that, the movie still landed on the broadly

486
00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:56.359
<v Speaker 5>positive side. But yeah, I pretty much agree with all

487
00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:59.640
<v Speaker 5>of those criticisms. Like, if I was looking for ways

488
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:03.759
<v Speaker 5>I could improve the movie, I would pretty much take

489
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:06.319
<v Speaker 5>what you said as a as a starting point.

490
00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:09.279
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I think those are reasonable criticisms.

491
00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:13.119
<v Speaker 1>So so, Thomas, what do you think they did right?

492
00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:16.240
<v Speaker 1>Or like that? You know that outweighs those criticisms that

493
00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:16.720
<v Speaker 1>you that you share.

494
00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:22.160
<v Speaker 5>I actually did though, I think one thing I thought

495
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:25.039
<v Speaker 5>they did a good job of showing him as as

496
00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:28.480
<v Speaker 5>kind of a morally ambiguous character, although I feel like

497
00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:28.960
<v Speaker 5>they could.

498
00:25:28.839 --> 00:25:31.079
<v Speaker 6>Have done leaned into that more.

499
00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:35.720
<v Speaker 5>I mean, he he he banishes his his nephew seemingly

500
00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:38.680
<v Speaker 5>for no good reason. He puts, you know, too much

501
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:41.200
<v Speaker 5>trust in that one guy. Oh, I would have made

502
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:43.480
<v Speaker 5>that less obvious. By the way, if I was going

503
00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:46.759
<v Speaker 5>to critique something, who would have thought a guy called

504
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:49.839
<v Speaker 5>Lord Thorne would be the trader?

505
00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:51.559
<v Speaker 6>Like I would have made that.

506
00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:53.880
<v Speaker 5>I would have made that a little bit less on

507
00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:57.519
<v Speaker 5>the nose. But in any case, so what what what

508
00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:04.319
<v Speaker 5>made it work for me was, Yeah, I really like

509
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:10.119
<v Speaker 5>seeing characters grow and change throughout the movie. And I

510
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:16.039
<v Speaker 5>I just I just thought that in terms of a

511
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:20.279
<v Speaker 5>lot of the female main protagonists that we have seen recently,

512
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:27.000
<v Speaker 5>I thought Harrow was by far the strongest, Like, you know,

513
00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:31.119
<v Speaker 5>in terms of of her her character arc was pretty solid.

514
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:35.160
<v Speaker 5>She actually does grow and change and and suffer adversity

515
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:39.200
<v Speaker 5>and isn't just immediately good at everything, you know, Like,

516
00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:44.519
<v Speaker 5>I just was on board with the characters.

517
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:49.160
<v Speaker 1>She can't single handily take on the military of Newmanor

518
00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:52.400
<v Speaker 1>and a sword fight, right, yeah, you know.

519
00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:58.079
<v Speaker 5>Like and and I I was just on on board

520
00:26:58.119 --> 00:27:00.359
<v Speaker 5>with with what the characters were doing. I thought that

521
00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:06.319
<v Speaker 5>a lot of the heroic moments landed for me, And

522
00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:10.079
<v Speaker 5>when when I was catching little changes from those few

523
00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:13.519
<v Speaker 5>paragraphs that we had in the appendices, I was like, Okay,

524
00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:17.680
<v Speaker 5>for the story they're telling, that makes sense. But I

525
00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:22.119
<v Speaker 5>also appreciated that they did lift entire lines of dialogue

526
00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:28.640
<v Speaker 5>from uh from the Rohan section of of Tolkien's appendices,

527
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:39.400
<v Speaker 5>and I just felt that, Oh, they didn't downplay any

528
00:27:39.559 --> 00:27:41.880
<v Speaker 5>of the men to lift terror up.

529
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:43.559
<v Speaker 6>If it makes sense.

530
00:27:43.640 --> 00:27:48.160
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, in a lot of contemporary media, they feel they

531
00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:51.920
<v Speaker 5>need to make the men stupid or peevish or corrupt

532
00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:56.680
<v Speaker 5>or incompetent or or any of these other things in

533
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.880
<v Speaker 5>order to lift up the female character, which doesn't disserve

534
00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:01.160
<v Speaker 5>to both, not.

535
00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:04.319
<v Speaker 6>Just the men. But it's like that they did not

536
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:05.119
<v Speaker 6>do that here.

537
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:09.400
<v Speaker 5>And I just felt that and Helm was suitably heroic,

538
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:12.200
<v Speaker 5>and so were the brothers. I like the brothers a lot.

539
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:15.079
<v Speaker 5>I agree I would have I would have liked more

540
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:20.160
<v Speaker 5>time to develop them, but but I get that we're

541
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:23.000
<v Speaker 5>we're not doing a full three hours here, like like

542
00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:27.880
<v Speaker 5>Jackson would have done. But yeah, I and my my

543
00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:30.880
<v Speaker 5>biggest lore I'll tell you what my biggest concern going

544
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:33.119
<v Speaker 5>is in was was that they were going to write

545
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:36.279
<v Speaker 5>frail Off out of the movie completely, and they did

546
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:38.319
<v Speaker 5>not do that. And I remember when we came out,

547
00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:41.119
<v Speaker 5>my brother said to me, he's like, if anyone else

548
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:43.839
<v Speaker 5>had made this movie, they would have just written frail

549
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:50.920
<v Speaker 5>Off out because and you know, because he he's It's like,

550
00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:55.000
<v Speaker 5>because without him, you could have put Hera.

551
00:28:54.920 --> 00:28:55.799
<v Speaker 6>In his place.

552
00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:58.519
<v Speaker 5>The biggest changed law change I thought they made was

553
00:28:59.079 --> 00:29:04.319
<v Speaker 5>giving Hara the final kill of Wolf rather than frail Off.

554
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:07.000
<v Speaker 5>In the book, it's frail Off, but I thought I

555
00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:10.119
<v Speaker 5>expected that once I knew freil Off was in the movie,

556
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:12.599
<v Speaker 5>I was like, Okay, they're gonna give Hera the kill

557
00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:16.039
<v Speaker 5>because of what they're of, what they're built, the personal

558
00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:19.720
<v Speaker 5>animosity between them. So I thought in terms that made

559
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:22.599
<v Speaker 5>sense for this adaptation. And I don't think it's too

560
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:27.400
<v Speaker 5>much of a stretch. But yeah, I know, I'm kind

561
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:30.160
<v Speaker 5>of rambling. I've had a really long week, by the way,

562
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:32.079
<v Speaker 5>so if if I.

563
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:34.599
<v Speaker 6>Begin to ramble, it's just because I'm tired. We've had

564
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:36.000
<v Speaker 6>a busy week at work.

565
00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:40.279
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, fair enough. Yeah, and I will say that

566
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:43.839
<v Speaker 1>I am glad that they didn't make hera the Queen

567
00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:46.079
<v Speaker 1>of Rohanna at the end. That was just right. Yeah,

568
00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:48.000
<v Speaker 1>that would have been called me to just write it

569
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:52.680
<v Speaker 1>off altogether, because I, like you said, she she's not

570
00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:57.640
<v Speaker 1>a just like smash the patriarchy, everything's about me liberation. No,

571
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:02.039
<v Speaker 1>she she very much serves the honor of her king

572
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:05.440
<v Speaker 1>and father. She is concerned about the good of her people.

573
00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:08.400
<v Speaker 1>She is not this rebel with how to cause you know,

574
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:13.160
<v Speaker 1>there's a tempest in me, uh kind of figure, and

575
00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:16.559
<v Speaker 1>so you know, I like that she's part of the

576
00:30:16.599 --> 00:30:19.720
<v Speaker 1>society that she kind of represents as the heroine of

577
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:24.440
<v Speaker 1>the story, and so that maybe overall pretty comfortable what

578
00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:26.359
<v Speaker 1>they did with her. Now, yes, she doesn't really have

579
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:29.160
<v Speaker 1>much of an arc in that she doesn't change in

580
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:32.519
<v Speaker 1>any dramatic form throughout the movie. She basically is who

581
00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:36.279
<v Speaker 1>she is at the beginning at the end. But at

582
00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:39.799
<v Speaker 1>the same time, like I know, it's kind of a

583
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:42.880
<v Speaker 1>faux pas that people will call her a you know,

584
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:46.599
<v Speaker 1>a plain Jane or whatever they say when she doesn't

585
00:30:46.599 --> 00:30:50.000
<v Speaker 1>really have any development. But at the same time, I mean,

586
00:30:50.839 --> 00:30:54.839
<v Speaker 1>you know, the the Rohrom that these people are very

587
00:30:54.880 --> 00:31:00.039
<v Speaker 1>much drawn from the northern Spirit, the Anglo Saxons, and

588
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:03.519
<v Speaker 1>you know, as somebody who likes to read the Norse tales,

589
00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:08.119
<v Speaker 1>the Vulse songs, the Eda's, you know, those characters for

590
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:12.400
<v Speaker 1>the most part, don't really have arcs. They don't really change.

591
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:15.559
<v Speaker 1>These are just people who are put by fate in

592
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:18.839
<v Speaker 1>a certain situation, and they play the role that is

593
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:22.200
<v Speaker 1>allotted to them, and so the story isn't so much

594
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:26.400
<v Speaker 1>about their development as characters. The story is about the

595
00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:29.440
<v Speaker 1>things that are happening in the broader sphere, but focusing

596
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:32.039
<v Speaker 1>in on the role that specific characters have to play

597
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:35.119
<v Speaker 1>within that broader story. And so it's like the story

598
00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:37.799
<v Speaker 1>is the story, the character is not the story. And

599
00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:41.319
<v Speaker 1>so I'm actually okay with a character not having an

600
00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:44.359
<v Speaker 1>arc per se, so long as there is some kind

601
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:47.119
<v Speaker 1>of compelling story taking place around them. I feel like

602
00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:50.759
<v Speaker 1>that actually captures the traditions of the Northern Spirit pretty well. Now,

603
00:31:50.920 --> 00:31:52.799
<v Speaker 1>perhaps it could be in fact, no, I mean I

604
00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:55.359
<v Speaker 1>think that even in Tolkien's own writing, like you have

605
00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:57.920
<v Speaker 1>some characters that are like that, that are strong articulators

606
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:00.400
<v Speaker 1>that don't I mean, like you know, Book Eric is

607
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:02.359
<v Speaker 1>not fundamentally different by the end than Here's at the

608
00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:07.640
<v Speaker 1>beginning in the book. Yeah, yeah, Jackson Aragorn. Sure, that's

609
00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:10.240
<v Speaker 1>that's one thing I think Jackson did wrong. But book

610
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:13.720
<v Speaker 1>air Gorn is basically the same throughout the story. And

611
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:15.759
<v Speaker 1>so I'm actually okay with the fact that Hara doesn't

612
00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:16.319
<v Speaker 1>have an arc.

613
00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so there's there's not having an arc, which you

614
00:32:20.920 --> 00:32:24.000
<v Speaker 2>can do. I think what what bugged me was that

615
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:25.960
<v Speaker 2>the narrator told us about her. I hate it when

616
00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:30.200
<v Speaker 2>about If they hadn't in glude to those lines, I'd

617
00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:35.200
<v Speaker 2>probably much more favorable, but that really bucks me. And yeah,

618
00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:39.200
<v Speaker 2>so I think she they walked the line with her being.

619
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:42.359
<v Speaker 3>Too talented versus not too talented.

620
00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:44.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, you have great moments like she know she

621
00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:47.960
<v Speaker 2>doesn't take out that troll that was there on the

622
00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:50.039
<v Speaker 2>hip cliffs around Helm's Deep for whatever reason. You know,

623
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:53.079
<v Speaker 2>Helm has to do that. Great, but she does also

624
00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:55.799
<v Speaker 2>just like very quickly organize an evacuation for better us.

625
00:32:56.599 --> 00:32:57.440
<v Speaker 3>Okay, great, you.

626
00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:00.400
<v Speaker 2>Know she's she's been in the royal family, She's able

627
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:02.319
<v Speaker 2>to do that, She is able to do these things.

628
00:33:03.079 --> 00:33:04.960
<v Speaker 2>I think they walked that line pretty well with her

629
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:09.279
<v Speaker 2>being very competent and capable and also.

630
00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:11.720
<v Speaker 3>Having her moments where she didn't feel like she was.

631
00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:18.880
<v Speaker 2>And then yeah, otherwise the character just it didn't resonate

632
00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:21.759
<v Speaker 2>with me a ton she was, she was good enough

633
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:30.480
<v Speaker 2>for the story, but there there was the one moment

634
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:34.720
<v Speaker 2>that felt not as earned, not as well earned as

635
00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:37.119
<v Speaker 2>I think the story thought it was. And I do

636
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.000
<v Speaker 2>remember this was one of the ones where I violidated

637
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:40.240
<v Speaker 2>this with my wife, and I was like, am I

638
00:33:40.279 --> 00:33:40.960
<v Speaker 2>being ridical to that?

639
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:41.279
<v Speaker 1>I thought.

640
00:33:41.319 --> 00:33:45.039
<v Speaker 2>The same thing was when they're at the gate of

641
00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:49.440
<v Speaker 2>the Hornberg and Helm, you know, pushes her back inside

642
00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:51.039
<v Speaker 2>and he's like, I should have listened to you, you know,

643
00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:54.519
<v Speaker 2>I should have trusted you, And I went, you didn't

644
00:33:54.519 --> 00:33:55.599
<v Speaker 2>listen to her one time?

645
00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:58.279
<v Speaker 3>And you know, that was kind of it.

646
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:02.920
<v Speaker 2>She just happened to be right, Like, sure she was right,

647
00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:06.240
<v Speaker 2>but this wasn't like an ongoing thing or she didn't

648
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:08.719
<v Speaker 2>have any particular reason. You know, it didn't seem like

649
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:11.639
<v Speaker 2>he was being all that brash in his decision making.

650
00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:15.440
<v Speaker 3>And that was kind of the larger problem.

651
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:16.880
<v Speaker 2>That I didn't really bring up that I had, which

652
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:22.960
<v Speaker 2>it seemed that this story was so focused on Harah, Right,

653
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:24.960
<v Speaker 2>you say, the story is the story and charags the characters.

654
00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:27.440
<v Speaker 2>I felt that the story really was about her, And

655
00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:29.440
<v Speaker 2>when a story is so focused on a character, I

656
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:33.000
<v Speaker 2>want the character to have more, more of an arc,

657
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:35.639
<v Speaker 2>more of a struggle. Proto doesn't have so much an

658
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:41.599
<v Speaker 2>arc as he does, like experience this continuous pressure and

659
00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:44.639
<v Speaker 2>you know on his will right where he's cane having

660
00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:47.199
<v Speaker 2>to fight back this, He's still he's incredibly noble throughout

661
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:50.079
<v Speaker 2>the whole Lord of the Rings. He changes dramatically obviously,

662
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:52.719
<v Speaker 2>but doesn't really so much become a better person.

663
00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:56.840
<v Speaker 3>I wanted to see more of that effect on Haarra.

664
00:34:56.880 --> 00:34:58.599
<v Speaker 2>I think I said this interview, she goes some incredibly

665
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:03.360
<v Speaker 2>traumatic stuff and out the side more or less unchanged,

666
00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:06.159
<v Speaker 2>and for a story that, in my opinion, the story

667
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:08.920
<v Speaker 2>was very focused on her. Like Helen's death for example,

668
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:12.000
<v Speaker 2>in the in the appendix, it just takes place as

669
00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:18.000
<v Speaker 2>he's out rating the encamped dun Landers, right, delanience whatever,

670
00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:20.800
<v Speaker 2>it just you know, he goes out. He's doing that repeatedly,

671
00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:22.679
<v Speaker 2>and eventually one night he goes out for too long

672
00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:25.199
<v Speaker 2>and he freezes to death on his feet ready to fight.

673
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:27.960
<v Speaker 2>In the movie, they have him do it while he's

674
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:30.559
<v Speaker 2>defending Hara, right. So that's just kind of example, like

675
00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:32.719
<v Speaker 2>everything kind of kind of she was kind of like

676
00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:37.239
<v Speaker 2>a little gravitational center that sucked in the like story

677
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:41.239
<v Speaker 2>bits right, everything kind of wrote revolved around her, and

678
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:43.320
<v Speaker 2>so I think if you do that, you need a

679
00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:45.480
<v Speaker 2>little more character work. Again, I think they did do

680
00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:47.880
<v Speaker 2>some character work, a lot better character work than I

681
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:50.280
<v Speaker 2>have seen in the likes of Glad Thrill or name

682
00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:53.559
<v Speaker 2>any Star warshow that's not and Or in the last decade.

683
00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:57.000
<v Speaker 2>But like I said, I'm a fairly harsh critic, especially

684
00:35:57.039 --> 00:35:59.280
<v Speaker 2>if things that I that are near and dear to

685
00:35:59.320 --> 00:36:00.960
<v Speaker 2>my heart, you know.

686
00:36:01.079 --> 00:36:04.000
<v Speaker 1>I think that's fair, especially drawing on the Phroto comparison,

687
00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:06.679
<v Speaker 1>because you know, Ereferen's Eric Gorne. But Frodo is obviously

688
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:09.239
<v Speaker 1>the central figure of the story, and well, he doesn't

689
00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:12.920
<v Speaker 1>necessarily undergo a radical character transformation. He does have a

690
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:17.159
<v Speaker 1>deepening of his character, you know, as he bears the burden,

691
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:21.760
<v Speaker 1>he incorporates grief and sorrow into his character in a

692
00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:27.519
<v Speaker 1>new way. You know, even as Gandolf his master so

693
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:29.800
<v Speaker 1>to speak. You know, we told that he in the

694
00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:32.559
<v Speaker 1>Silmarlion that he learned sorrow from Nianna and that is

695
00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:35.159
<v Speaker 1>what brought him wisdom. Frodo shares in that kind of

696
00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:38.000
<v Speaker 1>arc himself, and so he has a deepening of character

697
00:36:38.119 --> 00:36:41.199
<v Speaker 1>throughout the story, whereas I mean fair enough Para really,

698
00:36:41.400 --> 00:36:43.719
<v Speaker 1>I mean she's more or less the same. So I

699
00:36:43.719 --> 00:36:48.559
<v Speaker 1>think that's that's a fair comparison. Now regarding the character

700
00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:54.199
<v Speaker 1>of Helm, that that's come up a few times, Thomas,

701
00:36:54.199 --> 00:36:55.920
<v Speaker 1>what do you think about the character of Helm, because

702
00:36:55.960 --> 00:36:57.679
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if you've directly addressed that.

703
00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:01.960
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I thought Helms was handled well. I thought he was.

704
00:37:02.119 --> 00:37:04.039
<v Speaker 5>He was more complex than I thought he was going

705
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:06.320
<v Speaker 5>to be, you know, because we see where you know,

706
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:10.079
<v Speaker 5>his his pride sometimes leads him to make rash decisions

707
00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:13.760
<v Speaker 5>or you know, he he literally at one point doesn't

708
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:14.719
<v Speaker 5>know his own strength.

709
00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:16.840
<v Speaker 6>He's like, oh, there's no way I killed that guy,

710
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:19.280
<v Speaker 6>and it's like I don't know, man, did you?

711
00:37:21.039 --> 00:37:25.280
<v Speaker 5>But anyway, Yeah, I I felt that that the the

712
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:29.119
<v Speaker 5>the movie shows him as you know, an honorable kingly

713
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:34.079
<v Speaker 5>man despite character flaws, and and I felt that was

714
00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:38.280
<v Speaker 5>very interesting. I felt, you know, as maybe not to

715
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:42.039
<v Speaker 5>to audiences who aren't as familiar with the appendices, maybe

716
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:44.400
<v Speaker 5>his over the top heroic death.

717
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:47.840
<v Speaker 6>Might not seem earned, but for someone who knew that it.

718
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:50.800
<v Speaker 5>Was coming like that, the the over the topness of

719
00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:56.400
<v Speaker 5>it actually worked very well for me personally. But yeah,

720
00:37:56.440 --> 00:37:59.639
<v Speaker 5>that that's That's one criticism I I do want to

721
00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:01.960
<v Speaker 5>lodge at the movie is that I don't know how

722
00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:05.440
<v Speaker 5>audiences who aren't extremely familiar with this stuff are going

723
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:06.719
<v Speaker 5>to take this.

724
00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:10.800
<v Speaker 2>I definitely think, I think you made a very good point,

725
00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:12.239
<v Speaker 2>and I think this is one thing that like, yeah,

726
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:13.480
<v Speaker 2>I might watch the movie come up with a different

727
00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:16.039
<v Speaker 2>opinion of Helm Especially in this movie, I think, yeah,

728
00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:18.360
<v Speaker 2>I said, I did say I think he was too honorable,

729
00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:19.679
<v Speaker 2>and I think he made some good points where they

730
00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:21.840
<v Speaker 2>did show more complexity than I think I took away

731
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:26.840
<v Speaker 2>from the film, But I would absolutely agree that they

732
00:38:26.920 --> 00:38:29.360
<v Speaker 2>I think they needed to earn that death of his more.

733
00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:32.880
<v Speaker 2>I think they needed to spend more time establishing the

734
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:36.719
<v Speaker 2>legend of Helmhammer hand. Yes, it's essentially one maybe two

735
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:40.920
<v Speaker 2>relatively short scenes. That's kind of all you get. And like,

736
00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:44.239
<v Speaker 2>this is the man they changed the name of this fortress, right,

737
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:47.440
<v Speaker 2>they're all right for this man. Right, this fortress has

738
00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:50.440
<v Speaker 2>as they has, like saved their people numerous times in

739
00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:53.679
<v Speaker 2>the past. Right, there's a reason for that. And I

740
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:57.559
<v Speaker 2>think they needed to spend more time with Helman I

741
00:38:57.599 --> 00:39:04.159
<v Speaker 2>mean the people within the Hornberg. I think he's dead, right, yeah,

742
00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:07.519
<v Speaker 2>and then he shows up and then he's dead five

743
00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:13.360
<v Speaker 2>minutes later, and yeah, I just I they did an

744
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:18.800
<v Speaker 2>okay job, I think kind of portraying the effect on on.

745
00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:19.920
<v Speaker 3>The the dun Landers.

746
00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:24.880
<v Speaker 2>But I think they should have spent a decent bit

747
00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:27.239
<v Speaker 2>of the movie honestly establishing his legend.

748
00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:32.719
<v Speaker 5>And I do want to mention the character of Wolf

749
00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:37.000
<v Speaker 5>as a villain. I felt that he was suitably over

750
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:41.199
<v Speaker 5>the top. I feel like, and they they said in

751
00:39:41.199 --> 00:39:44.599
<v Speaker 5>interviews that that I had read before going into this

752
00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:46.199
<v Speaker 5>that they were gonna wan, that they were gonna make

753
00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:50.639
<v Speaker 5>himn unredeemed villain and and I'm like, okay, and I

754
00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:54.119
<v Speaker 5>I felt that that that worked for for this story,

755
00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:58.039
<v Speaker 5>and I felt he he was that villain that I

756
00:39:58.119 --> 00:40:02.280
<v Speaker 5>really grew to like hate passionately throughout the movie, especially

757
00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:06.920
<v Speaker 5>because like, I became so invested in his feud with

758
00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:11.000
<v Speaker 5>his general, uh general Targ, because I'm like, I'm like,

759
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:15.000
<v Speaker 5>I'm like, I kept saying to myself and sometimes out loud.

760
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:16.960
<v Speaker 5>I had to stop myself from saying it out loud

761
00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:19.920
<v Speaker 5>to Targ just slit this guy's throat.

762
00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:23.679
<v Speaker 6>Already because he never listens to you. He never listens

763
00:40:23.719 --> 00:40:23.920
<v Speaker 6>to you.

764
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:27.920
<v Speaker 5>He clearly doesn't care about the Dunlandings at all. And

765
00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:31.800
<v Speaker 5>they say that Targ is a full blooded Dunlanding, whereas

766
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:35.800
<v Speaker 5>as a wolf is at most only half and he

767
00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:39.480
<v Speaker 5>clearly doesn't care about his his people on that side

768
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:42.599
<v Speaker 5>of the family, and because he's using them as cannon fodder,

769
00:40:43.079 --> 00:40:45.800
<v Speaker 5>likes as soon as he tricks them into thinking that

770
00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:48.760
<v Speaker 5>there's gold in the fortress when he knows there's not.

771
00:40:49.239 --> 00:40:52.840
<v Speaker 5>I'm like Targ do in this guy already. It's like

772
00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:56.480
<v Speaker 5>because I'm like, it reminded me almost of like a

773
00:40:56.559 --> 00:40:59.960
<v Speaker 5>World War two movie where you have the reasonably common

774
00:41:00.199 --> 00:41:03.920
<v Speaker 5>tent in general having to listen to this maniac, you know,

775
00:41:04.039 --> 00:41:08.760
<v Speaker 5>like this almost hit larian maniac making these awful decisions

776
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:14.760
<v Speaker 5>because of his monomaniacal focus on on revenge or whatever.

777
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:18.199
<v Speaker 5>And I'm just like, but I like it. It was silly,

778
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:21.719
<v Speaker 5>it was goofy at times, but for me, that worked,

779
00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:25.400
<v Speaker 5>and I was just like, you know, I very much.

780
00:41:25.599 --> 00:41:27.519
<v Speaker 5>You know, it worked in the sense that it made

781
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:31.760
<v Speaker 5>me love to hate a wolf fair enough, fair.

782
00:41:31.639 --> 00:41:34.400
<v Speaker 1>Enough, Yeah, I will say that it is kind of

783
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:37.519
<v Speaker 1>refreshing to have a villain that they don't really want

784
00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:41.639
<v Speaker 1>you to feel sorry for that he's just he's just

785
00:41:41.679 --> 00:41:43.800
<v Speaker 1>a bad guy. Like, I think we need some more

786
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:47.239
<v Speaker 1>of that in stories where it's not gray is ambiguous.

787
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:48.800
<v Speaker 1>They don't they don't want you to sympathize with him.

788
00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:51.079
<v Speaker 1>They don't want you to like secretly root for him.

789
00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:54.199
<v Speaker 1>They i mean obviously connected rings of power, right, Like

790
00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:55.599
<v Speaker 1>that's what they want you to kind of root for

791
00:41:55.679 --> 00:42:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Soalron at certain times, and I think that's just it's

792
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:03.800
<v Speaker 1>it's bad, right. That's one of the philosophical qualms that

793
00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:06.599
<v Speaker 1>I have with Brings Up Power is that they at

794
00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:09.639
<v Speaker 1>times they actively try to want you to like want

795
00:42:09.800 --> 00:42:12.440
<v Speaker 1>Souron and Gladriel to get together, which is just absurd.

796
00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:15.440
<v Speaker 1>But you know, the whole communities that you know are

797
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:18.079
<v Speaker 1>like want that to happen, and the fact that that

798
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:20.679
<v Speaker 1>would get any kind of bait is just that's problematic.

799
00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:23.679
<v Speaker 1>Does nice have a villain who's just bad and they

800
00:42:23.679 --> 00:42:26.480
<v Speaker 1>don't really want you to like him? That is refreshing.

801
00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:29.719
<v Speaker 1>And I will say, you know, one more thing on

802
00:42:29.719 --> 00:42:33.599
<v Speaker 1>on Helm, I agree with what Sam said that he

803
00:42:33.679 --> 00:42:35.239
<v Speaker 1>has made to be a little bit more honorable than

804
00:42:35.320 --> 00:42:37.039
<v Speaker 1>he probably should be. You know, in that first fight,

805
00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:40.199
<v Speaker 1>you know in the the appendix, when he you know,

806
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:42.920
<v Speaker 1>when he punches them and kills him, he doesn't have

807
00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:44.360
<v Speaker 1>remorse like oh what did I do?

808
00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:44.719
<v Speaker 4>It?

809
00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:47.800
<v Speaker 1>Just it just happens and the story moves on like, yeah,

810
00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:48.679
<v Speaker 1>he probably had to come in.

811
00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:53.119
<v Speaker 2>Does he does he in the appendix banish, Well, I

812
00:42:53.159 --> 00:42:53.840
<v Speaker 2>believe he does.

813
00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:54.760
<v Speaker 6>Yes, he does.

814
00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:58.000
<v Speaker 1>He does, yes, so so that that part is accurate.

815
00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:00.880
<v Speaker 1>But I will say that I did actually really like

816
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:04.519
<v Speaker 1>the way they portrayed him terrorizing his people outside of

817
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:05.760
<v Speaker 1>the Hornberg.

818
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:08.119
<v Speaker 3>When it was done, it was done really well.

819
00:43:08.159 --> 00:43:11.079
<v Speaker 2>I just wanted more of it and more affected like

820
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:12.800
<v Speaker 2>the people of Rohan too.

821
00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:15.719
<v Speaker 1>Right, But I feel like that did a good job

822
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:19.599
<v Speaker 1>of making him seem like some kind of like preternatural being,

823
00:43:19.719 --> 00:43:20.760
<v Speaker 1>like taunting them.

824
00:43:20.760 --> 00:43:22.559
<v Speaker 6>Like the Wraith.

825
00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:26.960
<v Speaker 2>YEA like the way that was done just artistically, the

826
00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:29.480
<v Speaker 2>shot it was kind of like his.

827
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:33.360
<v Speaker 3>Raith like form and the snow was really really good.

828
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:39.639
<v Speaker 1>But I would say definitely better portrayal than in This

829
00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:43.400
<v Speaker 1>is really nitpicky, but in Jackson's Two Towers, when they

830
00:43:43.400 --> 00:43:47.199
<v Speaker 1>show a statue of helm hammer hand, he's literally holding

831
00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:51.800
<v Speaker 1>a hammer in his hand, so they definitely got that

832
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:52.480
<v Speaker 1>a little bit better.

833
00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:58.559
<v Speaker 5>He does have a warhammer in this fair enough, but

834
00:43:58.639 --> 00:43:59.159
<v Speaker 5>I mean that's clue.

835
00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:02.559
<v Speaker 1>That's not what he's known, right, He's called He's called

836
00:44:02.599 --> 00:44:05.920
<v Speaker 1>himerhand because his hand is a hammer exactly.

837
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I will, I will say along the lines of Wolf.

838
00:44:11.719 --> 00:44:14.519
<v Speaker 2>I found him very basic. I think that's what I

839
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:16.679
<v Speaker 2>called him. Every every line of dialogue I think I

840
00:44:16.760 --> 00:44:19.320
<v Speaker 2>predicted before he said it, except for the one time

841
00:44:19.840 --> 00:44:24.920
<v Speaker 2>when he had Harah helped captive and was proposing marriage

842
00:44:24.960 --> 00:44:28.280
<v Speaker 2>to her and basically say he'd stop and she says, okay,

843
00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:31.159
<v Speaker 2>so if I marry you, and he cuts her off

844
00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:33.960
<v Speaker 2>and goes if, And how dare you say if?

845
00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:37.840
<v Speaker 3>Bro, did you think she was going to be enthusiastic.

846
00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:41.280
<v Speaker 2>About marrying you? You're literally holding her the captive.

847
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:44.079
<v Speaker 1>Was a pretty pretty extravagant proposal.

848
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:49.679
<v Speaker 2>But other than that, I did I was whispered to

849
00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:52.920
<v Speaker 2>my wife right near the end, Thomas, like we were

850
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:54.639
<v Speaker 2>talking about the I was like, why does he keep

851
00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:55.599
<v Speaker 2>this general guy around?

852
00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:58.880
<v Speaker 3>He never listens to him. Everything the general says, he does.

853
00:44:58.719 --> 00:45:01.199
<v Speaker 6>The office, he does the op. Yeah, I was like,

854
00:45:01.239 --> 00:45:04.239
<v Speaker 6>every single time I felt so bad for that guy.

855
00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:05.679
<v Speaker 3>So I was cracking up.

856
00:45:05.719 --> 00:45:07.079
<v Speaker 2>The other part that I'd be cracking up in that

857
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:11.039
<v Speaker 2>scene was they dropped this massive, you know, siege bridge

858
00:45:11.480 --> 00:45:16.920
<v Speaker 2>onto the tower and no sense. Hair goes and and

859
00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:19.480
<v Speaker 2>and fights to delay. Okay, fine, Then it went why

860
00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:21.880
<v Speaker 2>aren't they burning this? Why aren't they were here? I'm

861
00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:24.320
<v Speaker 2>just shooting this with flaming arrows. Maybe they ran out

862
00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:26.519
<v Speaker 2>of fire or something, I don't know. Then after Harra

863
00:45:26.599 --> 00:45:29.519
<v Speaker 2>does her whole dramatic scene, then they start burning it.

864
00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:32.079
<v Speaker 6>That was the plan the whole time.

865
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:35.159
<v Speaker 2>So that was one of the things that, you know,

866
00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:38.360
<v Speaker 2>it's one of the things if I take the movie seriously,

867
00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:40.159
<v Speaker 2>which perhaps I take it too seriously.

868
00:45:40.599 --> 00:45:43.320
<v Speaker 3>I rolled my eyes and groan, which I did. But

869
00:45:43.400 --> 00:45:45.559
<v Speaker 3>also it's funny, and you know.

870
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:49.440
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I don't think they told that.

871
00:45:49.639 --> 00:45:53.440
<v Speaker 5>I don't think Wolf told the drummer guy on top

872
00:45:53.480 --> 00:45:57.039
<v Speaker 5>of that thing what it was going to do, because

873
00:45:57.119 --> 00:45:59.880
<v Speaker 5>he lying off at the end, he looked really so

874
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:05.119
<v Speaker 5>prized and terrified that it starts like falling towards the walls.

875
00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:09.599
<v Speaker 1>Like, yeah, I'm not sure, what do you expected it

876
00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:10.360
<v Speaker 1>was gonna happen there?

877
00:46:10.639 --> 00:46:10.719
<v Speaker 2>No?

878
00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:19.239
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I just felt that whole contraption was so silly.

879
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:22.440
<v Speaker 6>I was like, wait, it's not a normal siege tower.

880
00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:24.119
<v Speaker 6>What it extends?

881
00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:26.280
<v Speaker 2>Like, I was wondering what they were gonna do with that,

882
00:46:26.440 --> 00:46:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Like there's no wheels, how are they gonna Are they

883
00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:28.880
<v Speaker 2>gonna lift.

884
00:46:28.679 --> 00:46:29.360
<v Speaker 3>The whole thing?

885
00:46:29.559 --> 00:46:32.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh, they're just tipping over a giant wooden bridge and

886
00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:34.480
<v Speaker 2>hoping it doesn't snap in half when it hits the top.

887
00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:34.760
<v Speaker 3>Of the wall.

888
00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:35.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

889
00:46:35.320 --> 00:46:35.559
<v Speaker 1>Right.

890
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:37.760
<v Speaker 6>I felt that was very silly, but I was like,

891
00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:39.440
<v Speaker 6>you know what whatever.

892
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:45.920
<v Speaker 1>So, so, one thing that the sam brought up was

893
00:46:45.960 --> 00:46:48.280
<v Speaker 1>the fact that they from the very beginning, they're intentionally

894
00:46:48.280 --> 00:46:50.559
<v Speaker 1>echoing the Jackson movies.

895
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:52.159
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

896
00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:54.360
<v Speaker 1>Now, I mean, did you find that off putting at all,

897
00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:55.760
<v Speaker 1>Thomas or did you like that or do you have

898
00:46:55.760 --> 00:46:56.360
<v Speaker 1>any thoughts on that?

899
00:46:57.159 --> 00:46:57.360
<v Speaker 6>No?

900
00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:00.360
<v Speaker 5>I expected it, So I was just like, okay, and

901
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:03.440
<v Speaker 5>this takes place in in the same universe. I felt

902
00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:07.880
<v Speaker 5>the Hobbit movies did that a lot worse with some

903
00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:12.960
<v Speaker 5>of their they're they're grown inducing callbacks but or call

904
00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:14.800
<v Speaker 5>forwards because they're prequels.

905
00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:15.840
<v Speaker 1>Whatever.

906
00:47:16.559 --> 00:47:23.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I I I expected them to

907
00:47:23.960 --> 00:47:27.119
<v Speaker 4>call back to the the Jackson movies a lot, So

908
00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:27.960
<v Speaker 4>I guess I was.

909
00:47:28.599 --> 00:47:30.719
<v Speaker 6>It just kind of rolled off me. I was the

910
00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:31.639
<v Speaker 6>when it.

911
00:47:31.679 --> 00:47:35.679
<v Speaker 5>Started to strain credulity for me was the the Gandalf

912
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:37.840
<v Speaker 5>thing at the end. I'm like, you didn't. I'm like,

913
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:41.599
<v Speaker 5>I get why Saraman's here because he literally does take

914
00:47:41.639 --> 00:47:43.960
<v Speaker 5>control of Eisengard after these events.

915
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:48.880
<v Speaker 1>And I think in the in the appendix that yeah, it's.

916
00:47:48.679 --> 00:47:51.119
<v Speaker 3>Went frail off, like at frail Off's Crowning. Believe.

917
00:47:51.559 --> 00:47:54.239
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, And it was cool that they got that they

918
00:47:54.280 --> 00:47:58.079
<v Speaker 5>got altered and alternate take from Christopher Lee from the

919
00:47:58.760 --> 00:48:01.519
<v Speaker 5>live action movies to it to give him a line

920
00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:04.119
<v Speaker 5>of dialogue, although I wasn't expecting it to be just

921
00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:07.199
<v Speaker 5>one line of dialogue. And when when he speaks, I

922
00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:09.159
<v Speaker 5>look over at my brother and my brother's like, that's

923
00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:09.639
<v Speaker 5>all you.

924
00:48:09.559 --> 00:48:13.199
<v Speaker 1>Get if it's laugh But it was a little lane

925
00:48:13.199 --> 00:48:16.800
<v Speaker 1>that they used him in a lot of the promotional material. Yeah,

926
00:48:17.320 --> 00:48:17.719
<v Speaker 1>but uh.

927
00:48:18.039 --> 00:48:20.599
<v Speaker 5>It strained credulity for me that she gets a letter

928
00:48:20.599 --> 00:48:24.559
<v Speaker 5>from Gandalf, Like wait, how did how did he never mind?

929
00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:26.920
<v Speaker 5>Like in my head I was trying to figure out ways,

930
00:48:27.039 --> 00:48:29.320
<v Speaker 5>like I'm like did I'm like, okay, he can talk

931
00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:32.159
<v Speaker 5>to the eagles. Did the eagle tell him all about

932
00:48:32.199 --> 00:48:34.960
<v Speaker 5>hera or something? Or I'm like I was just like,

933
00:48:35.559 --> 00:48:37.400
<v Speaker 5>but at that point, it was the end of the movie,

934
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:40.000
<v Speaker 5>so I was just like, okay that that this really

935
00:48:40.039 --> 00:48:41.239
<v Speaker 5>doesn't make any sense, but whatever.

936
00:48:43.719 --> 00:48:47.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the part about that was like, it's just something

937
00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:51.199
<v Speaker 2>about something about Gandalf taking interests in rings, which I

938
00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:53.079
<v Speaker 2>don't think he would have been at that point.

939
00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:56.920
<v Speaker 3>Right, Yeah, and his ear his life is timeline.

940
00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:01.119
<v Speaker 1>That was kind of random. Yeah, those kind of random.

941
00:49:01.119 --> 00:49:02.039
<v Speaker 1>When they threw the orcs in.

942
00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:04.679
<v Speaker 6>There, yes, that was like that.

943
00:49:04.760 --> 00:49:07.320
<v Speaker 1>Also, why are they there? And why are they suddenly

944
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:08.639
<v Speaker 1>digging for rings?

945
00:49:09.639 --> 00:49:13.159
<v Speaker 5>I thought they were funny, but it's like it didn't

946
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:13.760
<v Speaker 5>make sense.

947
00:49:14.239 --> 00:49:16.840
<v Speaker 2>They were pulling pulling rings off dead bodies like mortar

948
00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:19.679
<v Speaker 2>wants rings, were collecting rings as if someone had been

949
00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:23.280
<v Speaker 2>the one ring, and just they weren't aware of it.

950
00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:26.079
<v Speaker 2>I guess it's early enough. Sorro I hadn't really this

951
00:49:26.239 --> 00:49:28.119
<v Speaker 2>is what how long before.

952
00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:32.280
<v Speaker 1>I think he was starting to kind of manifest in Yeah.

953
00:49:32.119 --> 00:49:33.199
<v Speaker 6>I think I think so.

954
00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:36.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but it's just like we're just gonna collect every

955
00:49:36.320 --> 00:49:38.360
<v Speaker 2>ring we can, hopefully one of them is the one rings?

956
00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:40.440
<v Speaker 3>How many are going to be in Middle Earth?

957
00:49:42.519 --> 00:49:46.320
<v Speaker 1>Right? Because at that point, I think Saren didn't even

958
00:49:46.360 --> 00:49:48.079
<v Speaker 1>know that the ring had been found.

959
00:49:48.440 --> 00:49:51.360
<v Speaker 6>I'm not sure that what yeah.

960
00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:56.639
<v Speaker 2>Right, but he knows that until Golm we're getting out

961
00:49:56.639 --> 00:49:57.280
<v Speaker 2>of I don't know.

962
00:49:57.880 --> 00:49:59.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I forget when Saren actually finds out that the

963
00:49:59.800 --> 00:50:00.679
<v Speaker 3>one and survived.

964
00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:04.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't know the exact timeline. But the easter

965
00:50:04.719 --> 00:50:07.079
<v Speaker 1>egg is I'm trying to blame on their real names,

966
00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:11.159
<v Speaker 1>but that the Orcs that the voices are Mary and

967
00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:13.239
<v Speaker 1>Pippin from the Jackson movies.

968
00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:18.679
<v Speaker 5>Really yeah, yeah, that's funny.

969
00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:20.239
<v Speaker 6>They were there.

970
00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:23.000
<v Speaker 5>The banter of the Orcs did remind me of Shagrat

971
00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:26.559
<v Speaker 5>and gore Bag from the books, you know, where they're.

972
00:50:26.440 --> 00:50:28.960
<v Speaker 1>Just like yeah, I mean, I felt like it was fine.

973
00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:30.440
<v Speaker 1>It's just the whole placement was weird.

974
00:50:30.519 --> 00:50:31.280
<v Speaker 6>Oh yeah it was.

975
00:50:31.400 --> 00:50:31.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

976
00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:33.960
<v Speaker 5>I was just like one like I thought it was.

977
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:36.880
<v Speaker 5>It was interesting though, that they because the book describes

978
00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:40.280
<v Speaker 5>when when Helm is going around, you know, killing people,

979
00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:42.239
<v Speaker 5>and they say he's the wraith. In the book, they

980
00:50:42.239 --> 00:50:45.519
<v Speaker 5>say he stalked like a snow troll through the camp,

981
00:50:45.559 --> 00:50:48.000
<v Speaker 5>and so I thought it was interesting that they think

982
00:50:48.280 --> 00:50:51.159
<v Speaker 5>Helm's the supernatural thing yet that there is also a

983
00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:55.679
<v Speaker 5>troll there. Like, so they managed to split the difference.

984
00:50:55.320 --> 00:50:59.039
<v Speaker 6>And have both so it was interesting.

985
00:50:59.159 --> 00:50:59.320
<v Speaker 3>Oh.

986
00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:03.400
<v Speaker 5>In terms of Gandalf, though, I couldn't help thinking when

987
00:51:03.440 --> 00:51:07.880
<v Speaker 5>when she gets the letter, I was like, like, they almost.

988
00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:09.280
<v Speaker 6>Could have done this would have been terrible.

989
00:51:09.320 --> 00:51:12.199
<v Speaker 5>But if they had done this, like it's almost like

990
00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:16.360
<v Speaker 5>Gandalf's almost like Nick Fury at the end, you know, like, yeah,

991
00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:17.280
<v Speaker 5>that's what I was thinking.

992
00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:19.920
<v Speaker 6>I'm here to talk to you about the fellowship.

993
00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:27.320
<v Speaker 1>You know, right, is the beginning of the new multiverse building.

994
00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:28.800
<v Speaker 6>Please know?

995
00:51:31.039 --> 00:51:33.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh, this is this is criticism I thought of. I

996
00:51:33.679 --> 00:51:36.960
<v Speaker 2>have this for Tolkien's movies as well. It really bugs

997
00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:40.239
<v Speaker 2>me that when a threat is coming from Eisngard towards

998
00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:43.000
<v Speaker 2>ederas they go to Helm's Deep, which is in the

999
00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:48.000
<v Speaker 2>direction of Eisengard, if I'm not mistaken on my Roan geography,

1000
00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:52.079
<v Speaker 2>Whereas what was supposed to happen and both in this

1001
00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:57.480
<v Speaker 2>and at least in part in uh in the original

1002
00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:01.079
<v Speaker 2>Two Towers movie or Two Tower book rather is that

1003
00:52:01.400 --> 00:52:04.880
<v Speaker 2>they they fight at like the Fords of Isisen or thereabout,

1004
00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:07.920
<v Speaker 2>and lose right and then, which Theodin didn't but some

1005
00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:09.599
<v Speaker 2>of his his men did. He was writing out to

1006
00:52:09.679 --> 00:52:13.280
<v Speaker 2>join them and then retreat to Helm's Deep. When you're

1007
00:52:13.480 --> 00:52:15.519
<v Speaker 2>you're when you run to Helm's Deep when the enemy

1008
00:52:15.559 --> 00:52:18.719
<v Speaker 2>is coming from Eisngard or that direction, you're running towards

1009
00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:21.840
<v Speaker 2>danger when you really should just go to don Harrow.

1010
00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:24.920
<v Speaker 6>But no, that's that's true.

1011
00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:26.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, because in the and.

1012
00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:29.159
<v Speaker 2>It does mention in the appendix that Helm goes out

1013
00:52:29.239 --> 00:52:32.440
<v Speaker 2>to you know, to the Fords of Eisen essentially and

1014
00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:36.559
<v Speaker 2>loses there while is also being beset on the on

1015
00:52:36.639 --> 00:52:39.199
<v Speaker 2>the Eastern front by it doesn't really say who.

1016
00:52:40.559 --> 00:52:41.840
<v Speaker 3>And and then after he.

1017
00:52:41.880 --> 00:52:45.079
<v Speaker 2>Was the church Helmesteep. I think the Coursiers were attacking

1018
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:45.920
<v Speaker 2>Gondor at the time.

1019
00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:48.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I think that's why.

1020
00:52:48.159 --> 00:52:49.960
<v Speaker 2>I think it's that's why that's why Gondor isn't able

1021
00:52:49.960 --> 00:52:51.880
<v Speaker 2>to help, because they are being attacked by the Corsairs,

1022
00:52:51.880 --> 00:52:53.880
<v Speaker 2>So I don't think it's clear if they're being attacked

1023
00:52:53.920 --> 00:52:57.320
<v Speaker 2>by south Anders, Roger Orcs whoever.

1024
00:52:57.719 --> 00:52:59.360
<v Speaker 5>That's why I thought it was it was neat to

1025
00:52:59.400 --> 00:53:02.000
<v Speaker 5>have the Padrum and the Muma kill in the movie

1026
00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:03.960
<v Speaker 5>because I was like, Okay, I'm like, these guys are

1027
00:53:03.960 --> 00:53:07.079
<v Speaker 5>already attacking Gondor at this same time, and I'm like,

1028
00:53:07.159 --> 00:53:08.079
<v Speaker 5>so they're.

1029
00:53:07.960 --> 00:53:08.880
<v Speaker 6>Kind of in the region.

1030
00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:11.360
<v Speaker 5>So the fact that Wolf could like hire some to

1031
00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:14.079
<v Speaker 5>supplement his own forces. I was like, okay, but again,

1032
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:16.840
<v Speaker 5>that's another thing where I'm like, I know that because

1033
00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:19.800
<v Speaker 5>I have this crazy, weird encyclopedic knowledge of these books.

1034
00:53:19.880 --> 00:53:21.800
<v Speaker 5>And it's like, but I don't know how how other

1035
00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:24.320
<v Speaker 5>people are gonna they'll seem kind of random that the

1036
00:53:24.360 --> 00:53:26.119
<v Speaker 5>oliphants are there and all that stuff.

1037
00:53:26.199 --> 00:53:29.239
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, and I don't really know if it makes

1038
00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:32.559
<v Speaker 1>sense having a watch her there, but it's kind of

1039
00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:34.079
<v Speaker 1>cool scene to watch her eat an oliphant.

1040
00:53:34.480 --> 00:53:35.320
<v Speaker 6>Oh yeah, well I thought.

1041
00:53:35.360 --> 00:53:38.159
<v Speaker 5>I'm like, okay, I'm like I always assumed there was

1042
00:53:38.199 --> 00:53:40.559
<v Speaker 5>more than one of those, because I'm like, okay, I'm like,

1043
00:53:40.639 --> 00:53:44.079
<v Speaker 5>it's one of those nameless things that gets Liker mentioned.

1044
00:53:44.119 --> 00:53:46.599
<v Speaker 5>So I'm like okay, but it reminded me of like

1045
00:53:46.679 --> 00:53:49.199
<v Speaker 5>because it was so big that it had trees growing

1046
00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:52.440
<v Speaker 5>on it and it could fake as like a little island.

1047
00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:55.239
<v Speaker 5>It immediate, I'm like, that thing's just like a Zelda boss.

1048
00:53:55.480 --> 00:53:58.800
<v Speaker 3>That's exactly what I thought of too. Yeah, I'm seeing this.

1049
00:53:59.239 --> 00:54:01.679
<v Speaker 5>I'm like, this is like a giant octa rock or

1050
00:54:01.719 --> 00:54:04.639
<v Speaker 5>something that the giant Octa Rock boss just sitting there

1051
00:54:04.639 --> 00:54:05.079
<v Speaker 5>in the lake.

1052
00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:08.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's it's immediately what I thought of when I

1053
00:54:08.519 --> 00:54:10.639
<v Speaker 3>have seen this in Broath of Wild.

1054
00:54:12.159 --> 00:54:16.199
<v Speaker 1>That's funny. Yeah, I will say that, I mean this

1055
00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:19.559
<v Speaker 1>kind of connects that. Generally speaking, I'm okay with most

1056
00:54:19.599 --> 00:54:22.679
<v Speaker 1>of the echoes to the Jackson movies and that it's

1057
00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:24.480
<v Speaker 1>part of the Jackson verse first of all, So I

1058
00:54:24.519 --> 00:54:28.000
<v Speaker 1>mean we can expect that I would be much more

1059
00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:31.559
<v Speaker 1>critical if, say Rings of Power were, you know, so

1060
00:54:31.599 --> 00:54:34.840
<v Speaker 1>explicit with some of these things, which I mean, obviously

1061
00:54:34.920 --> 00:54:36.760
<v Speaker 1>you can't escape Jackson at all if you're doing a

1062
00:54:36.920 --> 00:54:39.239
<v Speaker 1>Totien adaptation at this point, so it's going to be there.

1063
00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:41.960
<v Speaker 1>But as far as the on the Nose, I'm more

1064
00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:44.760
<v Speaker 1>okay with that. With within the Jackson verse, I kind

1065
00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:47.039
<v Speaker 1>of like some of the even the soundtrack, you know,

1066
00:54:47.360 --> 00:54:51.039
<v Speaker 1>nods the continuity with the row Herem theme. I actually

1067
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:53.559
<v Speaker 1>kind of appreciated that it is something kind of special

1068
00:54:53.559 --> 00:54:56.440
<v Speaker 1>walking into the movie theater and they're playing the Rohan theme,

1069
00:54:56.760 --> 00:54:59.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, it just kind of does bring back that nostalgia,

1070
00:54:59.079 --> 00:55:03.960
<v Speaker 1>which to a extent I appreciate. Now. Also, like even

1071
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:06.639
<v Speaker 1>in Tolkien, a lot of times we see echoes of

1072
00:55:06.719 --> 00:55:10.159
<v Speaker 1>events happened across time, and so I'm even okay with

1073
00:55:10.199 --> 00:55:12.960
<v Speaker 1>some of that. Now, I do agree that it's a

1074
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:16.079
<v Speaker 1>little bit too explicit at Helms where you have, you know,

1075
00:55:16.119 --> 00:55:18.480
<v Speaker 1>the army coming up over the horizon at the last minute.

1076
00:55:18.679 --> 00:55:21.480
<v Speaker 1>That was a bit too much. But I'm okay with

1077
00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:26.119
<v Speaker 1>most of the echoes to a point. But my personal taste,

1078
00:55:26.159 --> 00:55:26.519
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

1079
00:55:27.239 --> 00:55:30.800
<v Speaker 2>My biggest issue was when at the battle in front

1080
00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:32.840
<v Speaker 2>of Ataras, when all they were heros.

1081
00:55:32.559 --> 00:55:33.719
<v Speaker 3>Shout out death.

1082
00:55:34.639 --> 00:55:34.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1083
00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:38.440
<v Speaker 3>I did not like that at all because it cheapened.

1084
00:55:39.159 --> 00:55:42.440
<v Speaker 2>It's for any for like, for like, any normal consumer,

1085
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:44.840
<v Speaker 2>which I don't know if anybody but extreme tolkienens went

1086
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:47.239
<v Speaker 2>to see this movie anyway, based on its sales, Hummers,

1087
00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:49.920
<v Speaker 2>but the normal person like it's like, oh, that's just

1088
00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:52.119
<v Speaker 2>what they're here, charged when they're right into battle. No,

1089
00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:56.519
<v Speaker 2>it's not right. I think Jackson adapted it fairly well. Right,

1090
00:55:56.519 --> 00:55:59.039
<v Speaker 2>it's obviously in the in the movie, you know, not

1091
00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:01.800
<v Speaker 2>as it takes place in the book, where in the

1092
00:56:01.800 --> 00:56:05.320
<v Speaker 2>book it's much more cry of despair and hopelessness from

1093
00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Almyre right after he sees his his uncle, dad and

1094
00:56:09.400 --> 00:56:15.800
<v Speaker 2>his sister yeah, also apparently dead, and it's you know,

1095
00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:17.960
<v Speaker 2>he kind of just does death death, you know, ride

1096
00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:20.280
<v Speaker 2>to ruin of the world's ending. I think they adapted

1097
00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:26.440
<v Speaker 2>that fairly well, because you can see how Theodat riding

1098
00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:29.079
<v Speaker 2>over this the crest of this hill and staring at

1099
00:56:29.119 --> 00:56:32.159
<v Speaker 2>this force of mortar and going, we're all going to die.

1100
00:56:32.840 --> 00:56:34.880
<v Speaker 2>There is like there is no hope, We're all going

1101
00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:37.280
<v Speaker 2>to die, but we're going to die, you know, dying

1102
00:56:37.320 --> 00:56:40.639
<v Speaker 2>as men should, you know, as as we can fighting evil. Right,

1103
00:56:41.480 --> 00:56:45.440
<v Speaker 2>And there's there's something really Tolkien ask about that because.

1104
00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:46.599
<v Speaker 3>In like the is it the I think it is.

1105
00:56:46.639 --> 00:56:48.679
<v Speaker 3>The first chapter of the Sistem Early says death.

1106
00:56:48.599 --> 00:56:52.159
<v Speaker 2>Is you know, the gift of men, right, and so

1107
00:56:52.239 --> 00:56:54.360
<v Speaker 2>this is something that they should not fear in that,

1108
00:56:55.639 --> 00:56:58.159
<v Speaker 2>you know, men have been made to fear death, and

1109
00:56:58.199 --> 00:57:00.760
<v Speaker 2>that's in part you know how the Neumanorians were corrupted

1110
00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:04.760
<v Speaker 2>ultimately because they feared death and they saw it immortality,

1111
00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:05.960
<v Speaker 2>which was not theirs to seek.

1112
00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:08.079
<v Speaker 3>And so like, yeah, you have that in.

1113
00:57:10.119 --> 00:57:12.760
<v Speaker 2>And the Jackson movies really well without him, because this

1114
00:57:12.800 --> 00:57:15.440
<v Speaker 2>is an unwittable fight. They're riding to their deaths. They'll

1115
00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:18.719
<v Speaker 2>accept that. It's not the same thing here. This looks

1116
00:57:18.760 --> 00:57:21.800
<v Speaker 2>like a very winnable battle at Aderas, So I yeah,

1117
00:57:21.880 --> 00:57:23.400
<v Speaker 2>it's just like, this is what the row HEREM shot.

1118
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:23.800
<v Speaker 5>No, it's not.

1119
00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:26.159
<v Speaker 3>It's so you're you're kind of cheapening that moment.

1120
00:57:27.320 --> 00:57:30.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And obviously later when Harris says that she's married

1121
00:57:30.559 --> 00:57:33.079
<v Speaker 1>to death or whatever, they're trying to pull in that

1122
00:57:33.079 --> 00:57:36.360
<v Speaker 1>same idea, right, And I agree that that does kind

1123
00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:37.760
<v Speaker 1>of cheapen it, and it just seems out of place

1124
00:57:37.800 --> 00:57:44.079
<v Speaker 1>in the moment. Yeah, I mean, any any other thoughts,

1125
00:57:44.119 --> 00:57:46.159
<v Speaker 1>anything else that you think is worth bringing up either

1126
00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:48.440
<v Speaker 1>four or against.

1127
00:57:49.960 --> 00:57:51.840
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure I have some other thoughts, but not at

1128
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:52.199
<v Speaker 3>the moment.

1129
00:57:53.079 --> 00:57:55.239
<v Speaker 5>I was just thinking, when when I was watching the movie,

1130
00:57:55.400 --> 00:57:59.639
<v Speaker 5>like how much of like and they could have leaned

1131
00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:03.840
<v Speaker 5>into the more of how much a valkyrie type character

1132
00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:07.360
<v Speaker 5>Harra sort of is, especially in those because the Norse

1133
00:58:07.400 --> 00:58:10.960
<v Speaker 5>can't seem to decide what valkyrie are. In some stories

1134
00:58:11.000 --> 00:58:13.880
<v Speaker 5>they are very much kind of semi divine or or

1135
00:58:13.960 --> 00:58:16.840
<v Speaker 5>numbered among the acer, and in other stories they are

1136
00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:21.519
<v Speaker 5>mortal women. So I thought, it's it's like, okay, I'm like, yeah,

1137
00:58:21.760 --> 00:58:25.280
<v Speaker 5>I like that there's sort of echoes of the valkyrie here,

1138
00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:28.039
<v Speaker 5>but I I thought that they could have leaned a

1139
00:58:28.039 --> 00:58:30.599
<v Speaker 5>little bit more into that. But but I was just

1140
00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:33.239
<v Speaker 5>I was thinking that in the in the sense of, like,

1141
00:58:33.519 --> 00:58:35.760
<v Speaker 5>I know there's people who are gonna complain that she's

1142
00:58:35.800 --> 00:58:37.960
<v Speaker 5>here at all, but I'm like, guys, you need to

1143
00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:39.039
<v Speaker 5>read the edo's.

1144
00:58:38.800 --> 00:58:45.840
<v Speaker 3>More so, what did you think of the name Harah?

1145
00:58:46.599 --> 00:58:48.360
<v Speaker 6>I don't know, I kept one.

1146
00:58:48.519 --> 00:58:51.280
<v Speaker 5>I'm like, I'm like, it should be Freya would be

1147
00:58:51.320 --> 00:58:54.039
<v Speaker 5>more appropriate, but then there's freil Off, so that would

1148
00:58:54.079 --> 00:58:56.039
<v Speaker 5>get confusing for like casual viewers.

1149
00:58:56.079 --> 00:58:59.599
<v Speaker 1>But I'm like, yeah, they could handle Sara and Saramon.

1150
00:58:59.719 --> 00:59:02.039
<v Speaker 5>I mean, I mean that's true, although I know people

1151
00:59:02.280 --> 00:59:04.920
<v Speaker 5>like casuals who like hate that that there's two bad

1152
00:59:04.920 --> 00:59:06.199
<v Speaker 5>guys that start with S.

1153
00:59:06.159 --> 00:59:06.760
<v Speaker 1>In the movie.

1154
00:59:06.840 --> 00:59:11.400
<v Speaker 5>But but yeah, like I'm like, Okay, I get why

1155
00:59:11.239 --> 00:59:13.480
<v Speaker 5>they gave her a name that starts with H because

1156
00:59:14.360 --> 00:59:15.960
<v Speaker 5>most of the other members of the royal family.

1157
00:59:16.239 --> 00:59:18.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, her brothers, both her brothers and.

1158
00:59:18.480 --> 00:59:21.440
<v Speaker 6>Her and their fathers. Yeah, I'm like, but it's yeah

1159
00:59:21.480 --> 00:59:22.000
<v Speaker 6>and Pluss.

1160
00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:24.840
<v Speaker 5>You know, it just makes me think of hera from

1161
00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:26.280
<v Speaker 5>Star Wars Rebels.

1162
00:59:27.280 --> 00:59:29.360
<v Speaker 3>Maybe think of the Greek goddess that's too.

1163
00:59:29.719 --> 00:59:33.159
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, but yeah, it's like, yeah, it just seems like

1164
00:59:33.159 --> 00:59:36.320
<v Speaker 5>like I've seen too many characters recently with that name

1165
00:59:36.760 --> 00:59:40.000
<v Speaker 5>in things, So I think it's overused, but I was

1166
00:59:40.079 --> 00:59:43.599
<v Speaker 5>just like, eh, okay, I name choice could be better.

1167
00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:47.880
<v Speaker 1>Although to be fair, in Snorri Charlson's prose eta, he

1168
00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:50.719
<v Speaker 1>does introduce it by saying that the Seir, the Norse

1169
00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:54.880
<v Speaker 1>gods were actually originally came from Troy, So that that

1170
00:59:55.079 --> 01:00:01.519
<v Speaker 1>kind of oh that the sou I mean realistically more

1171
01:00:01.519 --> 01:00:03.679
<v Speaker 1>to the point now, it just seems culturally out of place.

1172
01:00:05.840 --> 01:00:09.320
<v Speaker 6>They always wanted to connect stuff to Troy because in

1173
01:00:09.679 --> 01:00:15.199
<v Speaker 6>h History of the Kings of Britain right by.

1174
01:00:16.719 --> 01:00:20.719
<v Speaker 5>Geoffrey of Monmouth, he makes the ancestors of King Arthur

1175
01:00:20.840 --> 01:00:21.800
<v Speaker 5>come from Troy.

1176
01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:24.920
<v Speaker 6>They were always trying to work Troy.

1177
01:00:24.679 --> 01:00:28.920
<v Speaker 1>And stuff, right. The barbarians always want to claim that

1178
01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:39.199
<v Speaker 1>they are the true inheritors of the Hellenistic tradition. Yeah, yeah,

1179
01:00:39.239 --> 01:00:41.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean anything else, And I think we covered a

1180
01:00:41.840 --> 01:00:43.760
<v Speaker 1>lot of the most important topics. But if there's anything

1181
01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:45.440
<v Speaker 1>else you guys want to bring up before we close it.

1182
01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:49.159
<v Speaker 3>Up, I don't think so fair enough.

1183
01:00:50.440 --> 01:00:54.760
<v Speaker 1>Well, I enjoyed this conversation. I feel like it was useful,

1184
01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:57.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, even if we're coming out from slightly different angles.

1185
01:00:57.119 --> 01:00:59.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think we are at least a pro

1186
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:03.360
<v Speaker 1>scheing more or less the same general territory in that. Okay,

1187
01:01:03.360 --> 01:01:06.280
<v Speaker 1>it's it's better than Rings of Power. Maybe not quite

1188
01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:11.719
<v Speaker 1>as good as Jackson's original movies, you know, at least

1189
01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:14.159
<v Speaker 1>on a sliding scale. I like this, and I want

1190
01:01:14.199 --> 01:01:17.719
<v Speaker 1>more of it, at least more in this direction. Right,

1191
01:01:18.079 --> 01:01:20.119
<v Speaker 1>That's how I feel kind of coming out of this.

1192
01:01:20.880 --> 01:01:22.960
<v Speaker 2>Hey, if we if we left Jackson's movies on a

1193
01:01:23.039 --> 01:01:25.280
<v Speaker 2>high and then went down a big old slope with

1194
01:01:25.360 --> 01:01:27.639
<v Speaker 2>the Hobbit movies bottomed out with Rings of Power, and

1195
01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:31.239
<v Speaker 2>they're just starting up up the back slope, that's that's great.

1196
01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:33.039
<v Speaker 2>That's if that's the director we'rekiding to keep going in

1197
01:01:33.039 --> 01:01:36.159
<v Speaker 2>that direction. I'm good with this being a stepping stone.

1198
01:01:36.719 --> 01:01:40.840
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I'm more skeptical of some of the other projects

1199
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:42.280
<v Speaker 5>in the Jackson verse coming down.

1200
01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:43.760
<v Speaker 3>I don't how I feel about Hunt for Gollum.

1201
01:01:44.039 --> 01:01:46.840
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, very skeptical, very skeptical.

1202
01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:49.480
<v Speaker 5>I mean, I like that Andy Serkis is directing, but

1203
01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:53.639
<v Speaker 5>I'm just I'm I'm very skeptical of that project.

1204
01:01:54.119 --> 01:01:57.880
<v Speaker 3>Don't need any more about Gollum. His story is told

1205
01:01:58.039 --> 01:01:58.639
<v Speaker 3>and done.

1206
01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:03.039
<v Speaker 2>And I mean, if it focuses on Aragorn, if you

1207
01:02:03.159 --> 01:02:04.239
<v Speaker 2>get a good actor to play him.

1208
01:02:04.239 --> 01:02:06.239
<v Speaker 3>I can't imagine BIGL. Mortenson is going to do it.

1209
01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:10.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, apparently he's been given a pretty big offer.

1210
01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:13.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know how that's going to happen. But anyhow,

1211
01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:17.559
<v Speaker 2>DHM the entire time, you know, if the focus is

1212
01:02:17.559 --> 01:02:20.440
<v Speaker 2>on Aragorn, and I'm more than happy to see you know,

1213
01:02:20.920 --> 01:02:23.679
<v Speaker 2>the story of Aragorn, especially like you know the things

1214
01:02:23.679 --> 01:02:27.199
<v Speaker 2>he references, you know how he and he and you know,

1215
01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:31.159
<v Speaker 2>the rangers like kept lands like the Shy are safe.

1216
01:02:31.599 --> 01:02:33.760
<v Speaker 3>There's lots you can do there. You have a lot

1217
01:02:33.800 --> 01:02:37.320
<v Speaker 3>of free reign there. But I don't think Gollam is

1218
01:02:37.519 --> 01:02:39.960
<v Speaker 3>a character that needs more screen time.

1219
01:02:41.840 --> 01:02:44.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that's fair. Just be interested to see

1220
01:02:44.760 --> 01:02:46.119
<v Speaker 1>kind of what plays out there.

1221
01:02:47.119 --> 01:02:49.639
<v Speaker 5>And I do want more more animated Lord of the

1222
01:02:49.760 --> 01:02:54.000
<v Speaker 5>Rings stuff please, Like, you know, I feel like that's.

1223
01:02:53.760 --> 01:02:55.800
<v Speaker 6>A medium, which you know.

1224
01:02:57.320 --> 01:03:00.920
<v Speaker 5>It just for fantasy in general, is a great medium

1225
01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:03.599
<v Speaker 5>of animation. And I just think that, you know, there's

1226
01:03:03.920 --> 01:03:07.000
<v Speaker 5>there's a lot of room to and a lot of

1227
01:03:07.079 --> 01:03:10.880
<v Speaker 5>great Tolkien stories that can be adapted by means of animation,

1228
01:03:11.119 --> 01:03:13.519
<v Speaker 5>and I just I want more of that. But I

1229
01:03:14.159 --> 01:03:16.639
<v Speaker 5>I just hope that you know, they don't take the

1230
01:03:16.880 --> 01:03:20.960
<v Speaker 5>the at least initial, you know, underperforming of this movie

1231
01:03:20.960 --> 01:03:22.920
<v Speaker 5>to be like, oh, we should never do anything like

1232
01:03:22.960 --> 01:03:23.440
<v Speaker 5>this again.

1233
01:03:23.559 --> 01:03:26.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, yeah, I do worry a little bit about that,

1234
01:03:26.880 --> 01:03:28.880
<v Speaker 1>the fact that doesn't seem to be performing very well,

1235
01:03:29.039 --> 01:03:29.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, if.

1236
01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:33.840
<v Speaker 6>That in America it is.

1237
01:03:34.159 --> 01:03:37.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but no, Andrew, you said you haven't really watched

1238
01:03:37.559 --> 01:03:40.639
<v Speaker 2>much anime or animation animated shows at all.

1239
01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:45.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I just not something I tend to be. I mean,

1240
01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:47.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't watch a lot of anything anymore really just

1241
01:03:47.079 --> 01:03:49.679
<v Speaker 1>for times sake. But yeah, I've just never been super

1242
01:03:49.760 --> 01:03:52.639
<v Speaker 1>drawn to animation, at least not as an adult.

1243
01:03:53.079 --> 01:03:55.159
<v Speaker 2>Well, let me make one recommendation. This is a show

1244
01:03:55.159 --> 01:03:58.400
<v Speaker 2>I will recommend to literally everybody. It's Avatar The Last Airbender.

1245
01:03:59.760 --> 01:04:02.239
<v Speaker 2>Now this this, this is the original animated show. There

1246
01:04:02.320 --> 01:04:04.480
<v Speaker 2>was a live action remake the first season anyway, that

1247
01:04:04.519 --> 01:04:06.159
<v Speaker 2>came out on Netflix. It' stuff very good.

1248
01:04:06.320 --> 01:04:07.159
<v Speaker 3>There was also a.

1249
01:04:07.039 --> 01:04:08.480
<v Speaker 2>Movie that came out in too Is in ten just

1250
01:04:08.480 --> 01:04:12.199
<v Speaker 2>called The Last Airbender, which is horrible. But the original

1251
01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:18.000
<v Speaker 2>animated show is one of the most edifying and inspiring.

1252
01:04:19.320 --> 01:04:21.119
<v Speaker 3>Stories I've watched ever.

1253
01:04:21.679 --> 01:04:24.119
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it's it's I totally agree with that.

1254
01:04:24.199 --> 01:04:27.719
<v Speaker 5>It's in like my top you know, fictional universes or

1255
01:04:27.960 --> 01:04:31.840
<v Speaker 5>fictional stories. Ever, like you know, it ranks extremely high.

1256
01:04:32.119 --> 01:04:33.480
<v Speaker 7>Yeah.

1257
01:04:33.599 --> 01:04:36.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I will say, if nothing else, this movie has

1258
01:04:36.840 --> 01:04:40.519
<v Speaker 1>opened me up to that that that avenue, and so

1259
01:04:40.599 --> 01:04:43.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm definitely more open to that than I probably was before.

1260
01:04:44.199 --> 01:04:47.519
<v Speaker 1>So maybe maybe that's a win. If if nothing else, yeah,

1261
01:04:47.519 --> 01:04:51.519
<v Speaker 1>absolutely all right. Cool, Well, I guess we can go

1262
01:04:51.559 --> 01:04:54.559
<v Speaker 1>ahead and wrap it there. I appreciate this conversation. Thanks again,

1263
01:04:54.639 --> 01:04:56.079
<v Speaker 1>Thomas and Sam for joining me.

1264
01:04:56.920 --> 01:04:58.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thank you so much. This has been This is

1265
01:04:58.760 --> 01:04:59.639
<v Speaker 3>an absolute blast.

1266
01:05:00.280 --> 01:05:03.320
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, thank you as always, Andrew, this has been terrific.

1267
01:05:03.880 --> 01:05:14.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, absolutely all right, So thank you for listening to

1268
01:05:14.159 --> 01:05:16.719
<v Speaker 1>this conversation. I hope that you found this as useful

1269
01:05:16.760 --> 01:05:20.320
<v Speaker 1>as I did, and I would love to hear your thoughts.

1270
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:22.880
<v Speaker 1>If you've seen the movie, and I think that you should,

1271
01:05:22.920 --> 01:05:24.440
<v Speaker 1>you should give it a fair shake, go in with

1272
01:05:24.440 --> 01:05:26.639
<v Speaker 1>an open mind, see what you think. Then I would

1273
01:05:26.639 --> 01:05:29.599
<v Speaker 1>love to hear your thoughts. You can send me a

1274
01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:33.760
<v Speaker 1>message or give me a comment some irrelevant on x

1275
01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:37.559
<v Speaker 1>over at andrew In Snyder. You can email me at

1276
01:05:37.599 --> 01:05:41.199
<v Speaker 1>Mythicmindpodcast at gmail dot com. And you know, I would

1277
01:05:41.239 --> 01:05:43.199
<v Speaker 1>love to share some of your thoughts on the show

1278
01:05:43.239 --> 01:05:46.119
<v Speaker 1>and interact with them a little bit, and so let

1279
01:05:46.199 --> 01:05:49.000
<v Speaker 1>me know your thoughts that if you enjoyed this conversation

1280
01:05:49.039 --> 01:05:50.360
<v Speaker 1>and you want me to be able to do more

1281
01:05:50.400 --> 01:05:52.440
<v Speaker 1>things like this on a regular basis, than I would

1282
01:05:52.440 --> 01:05:56.400
<v Speaker 1>truly appreciate your support. Now, of course, the greatest support

1283
01:05:56.559 --> 01:05:59.840
<v Speaker 1>comes in terms of finances, because that literally buys me

1284
01:06:00.119 --> 01:06:01.880
<v Speaker 1>time to do things like this. And so if you'd

1285
01:06:01.960 --> 01:06:04.760
<v Speaker 1>like to support me financially and become part of the

1286
01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:08.880
<v Speaker 1>insider community in the Mythic Mind Fellowship, which includes discord access,

1287
01:06:08.960 --> 01:06:14.119
<v Speaker 1>exclusive content at free content at free episodes, early episodes.

1288
01:06:14.559 --> 01:06:15.960
<v Speaker 1>If all that kind of stuff appeals to you and

1289
01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:18.480
<v Speaker 1>you want to help me to keep moving on this

1290
01:06:18.639 --> 01:06:21.119
<v Speaker 1>road that goes ever on, then you can go ver

1291
01:06:21.239 --> 01:06:24.079
<v Speaker 1>to Patreon dot com slash Mythic Mind. Any level of

1292
01:06:24.079 --> 01:06:27.000
<v Speaker 1>support helps, But I will say that if you sign

1293
01:06:27.039 --> 01:06:29.559
<v Speaker 1>on at the tier three or higher that's twenty five

1294
01:06:29.559 --> 01:06:31.519
<v Speaker 1>dollars a month or higher, then that will give you

1295
01:06:31.679 --> 01:06:34.199
<v Speaker 1>live access to the twelve week Lord of the Rings

1296
01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:37.280
<v Speaker 1>course that begins in early January, which is not that

1297
01:06:37.400 --> 01:06:40.000
<v Speaker 1>far away from now, so we'll be reading through the

1298
01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:43.639
<v Speaker 1>entire Lord of the Rings together. There'll be a couple

1299
01:06:43.719 --> 01:06:47.519
<v Speaker 1>videos every week that goes into some aspect of context

1300
01:06:47.719 --> 01:06:52.159
<v Speaker 1>or the philosophy of Tolkien, or that will serve as

1301
01:06:52.159 --> 01:06:55.119
<v Speaker 1>a reading companion for that week's reading. And then we'll

1302
01:06:55.119 --> 01:06:58.800
<v Speaker 1>also have discord conversation, we'll have live meetings, and obviously

1303
01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:00.679
<v Speaker 1>not everyone's going to be able to do everything, but

1304
01:07:00.719 --> 01:07:04.599
<v Speaker 1>if anywhere all that interests you, then you can sign

1305
01:07:04.639 --> 01:07:07.320
<v Speaker 1>on to patreon dot com slash mythic Mind at twenty

1306
01:07:07.320 --> 01:07:09.480
<v Speaker 1>five dollars a month or higher, and of course at

1307
01:07:09.800 --> 01:07:13.280
<v Speaker 1>lesser levels of support definitely help us well. Now, if

1308
01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:16.320
<v Speaker 1>you can't or don't necessarily want to support me financially

1309
01:07:16.320 --> 01:07:18.800
<v Speaker 1>at this time, you can always share this around, make

1310
01:07:18.840 --> 01:07:21.679
<v Speaker 1>sure you subscribe, you know, all the normal things to

1311
01:07:21.719 --> 01:07:26.840
<v Speaker 1>increase range and increase an audience, they'll definitely be greatly appreciated.

1312
01:07:27.239 --> 01:07:28.800
<v Speaker 1>But I do want to go ahead and think by

1313
01:07:28.920 --> 01:07:31.320
<v Speaker 1>name all of my Tier two patrons and higher, and

1314
01:07:31.360 --> 01:07:35.039
<v Speaker 1>so that's Mark, Aaron d Ebby, Paul Aaron s Andrew,

1315
01:07:35.079 --> 01:07:39.360
<v Speaker 1>g Andrew m Arturo, Brandon me E E and Jeremiah, Joscelyn,

1316
01:07:39.440 --> 01:07:42.679
<v Speaker 1>Josh Joshua Landon, Paul, Sarah and Steele. Thank you so

1317
01:07:42.760 --> 01:07:44.639
<v Speaker 1>much for your support, which helps me to keep doing

1318
01:07:44.679 --> 01:07:46.280
<v Speaker 1>things like this, and of course thank you to all

1319
01:07:46.400 --> 01:07:50.199
<v Speaker 1>my Tier one patrons as well. You definitely don't go unnoticed.

1320
01:07:50.679 --> 01:07:52.880
<v Speaker 1>Now before we go, I do have one book recommendation

1321
01:07:52.960 --> 01:07:55.079
<v Speaker 1>for you, although actually don't have a physical copy around

1322
01:07:55.079 --> 01:07:58.039
<v Speaker 1>me at the time, but that is Tolkien and the

1323
01:07:58.039 --> 01:08:01.760
<v Speaker 1>Great War The Threshold of Middle Earth. This book by

1324
01:08:01.840 --> 01:08:05.599
<v Speaker 1>John garth Is. It's one of my favorite biographical looks

1325
01:08:05.639 --> 01:08:10.000
<v Speaker 1>at Tolkien, specifically looking at this segment of his life. Now.

1326
01:08:10.039 --> 01:08:13.039
<v Speaker 1>I really enjoyed the Carpenter biography, which takes more of

1327
01:08:13.079 --> 01:08:15.880
<v Speaker 1>a broad scale, more holistic view. I think there's a

1328
01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:20.319
<v Speaker 1>lot of very significant and just interesting and fun insights

1329
01:08:20.520 --> 01:08:24.079
<v Speaker 1>that come from the Carpenter book, But this book takes

1330
01:08:24.279 --> 01:08:27.600
<v Speaker 1>a segmented view, really focusing in on his time in

1331
01:08:27.680 --> 01:08:31.840
<v Speaker 1>and around World War One. I think provides just a

1332
01:08:31.840 --> 01:08:35.079
<v Speaker 1>deeper level of appreciation or not appreciation, but deeper level

1333
01:08:35.079 --> 01:08:39.319
<v Speaker 1>of insight in this very formative time of Tolkien's life

1334
01:08:39.399 --> 01:08:42.279
<v Speaker 1>and the way that that translated into the beginnings of

1335
01:08:42.319 --> 01:08:46.479
<v Speaker 1>his legendarium. This fascinating, engaging, interesting. You can pick up

1336
01:08:46.520 --> 01:08:48.359
<v Speaker 1>the book or you can listen to the audiobook. And

1337
01:08:48.399 --> 01:08:51.479
<v Speaker 1>again that was Tolkien and the Great War. All right, Well,

1338
01:08:51.479 --> 01:08:53.720
<v Speaker 1>that's it. For now, I appreciate you joining me, and

1339
01:08:53.760 --> 01:08:56.119
<v Speaker 1>I look forward to what lies on the road ahead.

1340
01:08:56.560 --> 01:08:58.039
<v Speaker 1>Until next time, God's Speak.

1341
01:09:01.880 --> 01:09:11.319
<v Speaker 2>Contented count

1342
01:09:13.800 --> 01:09:20.159
<v Speaker 6>Cont countest