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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the Pathway, Chili.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Robin, I'm Jules, and I'm Ashley. Let's dive right

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<v Speaker 2>into this week's case.

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<v Speaker 3>December thirty one, twenty ten, Wilmington, Delaware, the body of

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<v Speaker 3>sixty six year old Jack Wheeler is discovered in a

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<v Speaker 3>trash heap at a landfill and his cause of death

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<v Speaker 3>is determined to be blunt force trauma. Days earlier, Jack

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<v Speaker 3>had left his residence in New York City to travel

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<v Speaker 3>to Delaware. A numerous eyewitnesses would report seeing Jack wander

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<v Speaker 3>through the area and displaying erotic behavior, which may have

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<v Speaker 3>been brought on by his struggles with bipolar disorder. It

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<v Speaker 3>is believed that Jack's body was transported to the landfill

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<v Speaker 3>after he wound up inside a dumpster which was picked

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<v Speaker 3>up by a garbage truck. But even though investigators believe

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<v Speaker 3>his injuries are consistent with the homicide, the exact circumstances

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<v Speaker 3>of how Jack died are unclear.

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<v Speaker 1>After that, the path went Chiley, So on today's episode,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to be exploring the case, which was the

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<v Speaker 1>subject of episode number one of the second season of

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<v Speaker 1>The Unsolved Mysteries reboot on Netflix. The Unexplained twenty ten

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<v Speaker 1>death of Jack Wheeler, the victim in this story, led

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<v Speaker 1>a particularly interesting life as he served as a White

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<v Speaker 1>House aid for no less than three US presidents and

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<v Speaker 1>was involved in a number of impressive achievements, including the

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<v Speaker 1>creation of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington, d c.

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<v Speaker 1>But unfortunately, Jack's life went in in a very tragic fashion,

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<v Speaker 1>as his body was discovered in a landfill in Delaware

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<v Speaker 1>after he had spent the past few days frequenting a

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<v Speaker 1>variety of different locations doing a number of things which

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<v Speaker 1>do not seem to make much logical sense. Now. Before

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<v Speaker 1>this case was even featured on Unsolved Mysteries, I had

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<v Speaker 1>actually received a couple of requests to cover it on

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<v Speaker 1>the Trail went Cold, and while my knowledge about this

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<v Speaker 1>story was limited, I did know that Jack's death had

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<v Speaker 1>officially been ruled a homicide, and because of his government connections,

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<v Speaker 1>there were a number of conspiracy theories surrounding his death. However,

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<v Speaker 1>once the Unsolved Mysteries episode came out, the consensus from

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<v Speaker 1>many viewers seemed to be that Jack was the victim

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<v Speaker 1>of a tragic accident brought on by his struggles with

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<v Speaker 1>bipolar disorder. And while the episode did acknowledge Jack's mental

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<v Speaker 1>health issues, it has received some criticism for its handling

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<v Speaker 1>of the subject. Much like their episode about the death

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<v Speaker 1>of Ray Rivera, the Unsawd Mysteries reboot has been accused

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<v Speaker 1>of leaving out key details to craft a narrative and

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<v Speaker 1>make the story appear as mysterious as possible, even though

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<v Speaker 1>there was a chance that no crime ever took place.

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<v Speaker 1>To be quite honest, this is why I was initially

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<v Speaker 1>reluctant to cover Jack Wheeler's story on the Trail Went Cold,

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<v Speaker 1>but I had to acknowledge that, in spite of the

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<v Speaker 1>skepticism from online sluice, Jack's death was officially ruled to

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<v Speaker 1>be a homicide by the medical examiner and law enforcement,

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<v Speaker 1>so I ultimately decided to release an episode about it

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<v Speaker 1>back in January of twenty twenty two. The most commonly

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<v Speaker 1>proposed theory is that Jack was killed by the trash

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<v Speaker 1>compactor in the garbage truck which picked up the dumpster

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<v Speaker 1>containing his body, but investigators do seem to believe that

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<v Speaker 1>his injuries were more consistent with a beating, so I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's important to present the most well rounded account

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<v Speaker 1>of Jack Wheeler's death that we can as this is

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<v Speaker 1>an opportunity to explore the topic of how mental illness

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<v Speaker 1>can sometimes be downplayed in cold case investigations.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is one of those cases that I should

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<v Speaker 2>probably know because I love unsolved mysteries, but I don't

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<v Speaker 2>remember Jack case. It's really surprising to me that you

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<v Speaker 2>have a man who has such an incredible resume when

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<v Speaker 2>you look at the fact that he was involved as

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<v Speaker 2>a White House aid that he was really responsible for

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of magical things that happened in Washington, d C.

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<v Speaker 2>And then you also have that he struggles with bipolar disorder,

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<v Speaker 2>and so you do have that kind of dual approach

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<v Speaker 2>to this case. Is it something that's mental health related,

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<v Speaker 2>because like you were saying, a lot of people are

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<v Speaker 2>arguing this might have been one of those episodes of

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<v Speaker 2>a mental health crisis, or was it something bigger than that.

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<v Speaker 2>Was it part of a government conspiracy?

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<v Speaker 3>Was it due to.

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<v Speaker 2>Something that he was involved in in his time with

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<v Speaker 2>the government. Both are very possible scenarios when you look

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<v Speaker 2>at cases we've covered in the past, and so I'm

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<v Speaker 2>really interested to hear more about this. But it's tragic

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<v Speaker 2>right from the get go. You have such an accomplished

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<v Speaker 2>man who has such a tragic ending to his life,

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<v Speaker 2>whether it was mental health or a homicide. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just already I'm already fascinated. I've got to know more.

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<v Speaker 3>This case reminds me so much of It's very different,

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<v Speaker 3>but we covered Ray rivera really early, but it also

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<v Speaker 3>reminds me of a least a Lamb just because of

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<v Speaker 3>the initial way that the case was treated from like

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<v Speaker 3>this supernatural perspective, rather than you know, her having a

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<v Speaker 3>mental health episode. And I think Rays was looked at

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<v Speaker 3>from a very conspiratorial perspective, like his friend Carter or

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<v Speaker 3>whatever had something done to him with a helicopter. When

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<v Speaker 3>I think at the end of our coverage of Ray's case,

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<v Speaker 3>which was right the very beginning of the Pathway Chile,

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<v Speaker 3>we settled on it was likely a mental health episode.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think this is going to be a really

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<v Speaker 3>good case for us to delve deeper into so we

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<v Speaker 3>can explore some of those themes exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think there is a possibility this case might

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<v Speaker 1>be a combination of both of them. That he was

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<v Speaker 1>suffering from a mental health episode, but there wasn't any

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<v Speaker 1>government conspiracy, but he still could have crossed paths with,

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<v Speaker 1>say a random stranger who wound up killing him. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's kind of a combination of both him just kind

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<v Speaker 1>of having a mental health episode, but also following prey

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<v Speaker 1>to someone who killed him.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so no one was arguing that it ended up

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<v Speaker 2>being a part of a government conspiracy or anything.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I remember before I watched this case on Unsolved Mysteries,

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<v Speaker 1>most of the limited knowledge I had about this case

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<v Speaker 1>was from like conspiracy websites, and it was mainly because

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<v Speaker 1>of the fact that he had worked for the government,

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<v Speaker 1>and they did push forward the idea that maybe that

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<v Speaker 1>had something to do with his death on the Unsolved

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<v Speaker 1>Mysteries episode. But all these years later, it seems the

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<v Speaker 1>consensus is that the whole government conspiracy angle is just

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<v Speaker 1>a red herring.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so we're down to mental health crisis or potential

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<v Speaker 2>of running into either are a random or kind of

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<v Speaker 2>a personally known as Sailor.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, definitely fascinating and.

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<v Speaker 3>We'll get into this more. But I think Robin, you

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<v Speaker 3>touched on something that's really really important with regards to

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<v Speaker 3>mental health episodes, particularly if somebody is experiencing bipolar mania.

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<v Speaker 3>You're going to be vulnerable to a lot of people

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<v Speaker 3>who could predate on you. But you also may act

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<v Speaker 3>in a way that isn't in alignment with who you are,

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<v Speaker 3>with lots of impulsivity. So it's very possible that Jack

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<v Speaker 3>could have encountered somebody who either decided to prey upon him,

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<v Speaker 3>or he may have interacted with this person in a

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<v Speaker 3>way that wasn't becoming in some way or triggered that individual,

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<v Speaker 3>and then that individual beat him and threw him in

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<v Speaker 3>the dumpster.

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<v Speaker 2>Very true, very true.

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<v Speaker 3>Our story begins in twenty ten, and our central figure

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<v Speaker 3>is sixty six year old John Parsons Wheeler, the third

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<v Speaker 3>who goes by the name Jack. Originally born in Laredo, Texas,

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<v Speaker 3>Jack hailed from a family with an extensive military history,

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<v Speaker 3>and he arrived with his father, John Parsons Wheeler, the Second,

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<v Speaker 3>nicknamed Big Jack, was fighting overseas in World War Two.

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<v Speaker 3>In fact, only five days after Jack's birth, his family

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<v Speaker 3>actually received a telegram the Big Jack had gone missing

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<v Speaker 3>an action during the Battle of the Bulge. Thankfully, Big

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<v Speaker 3>Jack was later found to be alive. After receiving the

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<v Speaker 3>Bronze Star and Purple Heart, he would continue on with

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<v Speaker 3>the military career which lasted over thirty years and he

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<v Speaker 3>reached the rank of US Army Colonel. Jack decided to

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<v Speaker 3>follow in his father's footsteps by joining the United States

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<v Speaker 3>Military Academy at West Point, and after graduating near the

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<v Speaker 3>top of his class in nineteen sixty six, he went

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<v Speaker 3>to Vietnam and served in a non combat administrative position

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<v Speaker 3>at Long Bin Post, where he worked at computerizing army operations. However,

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<v Speaker 3>Jack was hit hard by the fact that a number

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<v Speaker 3>of people he knew at West Point lost their lives

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<v Speaker 3>during the Vietnam War, as ten percent of his graduating

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<v Speaker 3>class were killed in action. In fact, the experiences of

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<v Speaker 3>Jack and his West Point classmates would be chronicled in

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<v Speaker 3>the nineteen eighty nine book The Long Gray Line, The

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<v Speaker 3>American Journey of West Points Class of nineteen sixty six,

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<v Speaker 3>which was offered by Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Rick Atkinson.

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<v Speaker 3>Following his return from va Vietnam, Jack served on the

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<v Speaker 3>General's staff at the Pentagon and went on to have

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<v Speaker 3>a successful career in the private sector, but by nineteen

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<v Speaker 3>seventy nine he decided to become chairman of the Vietnam

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<v Speaker 3>Veterans Memorial Fund, the non profit organization was established by

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<v Speaker 3>a Vietnam veteran named Jan Scruggs, and eventually paid the

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<v Speaker 3>way for the creation of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial three

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<v Speaker 3>years later, which would be built in Washington, d c.

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<v Speaker 3>And feature the names of every service member who lost

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<v Speaker 3>their lives during the war. Over the next three decades,

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<v Speaker 3>Jack would keep himself busy by working for the government

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<v Speaker 3>and being the CEO of such nonprofit organizations as Mothers

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<v Speaker 3>Against Drunk Driving and the Vietnam Children's Fund. He served

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<v Speaker 3>as a White House aide to Presidents Ronald Reagan and

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<v Speaker 3>George H. W. Bush, working on the latter's transition team

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<v Speaker 3>when he entered office, and during George W. Bush's second

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<v Speaker 3>term as president, Jack served as special assistant to the

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<v Speaker 3>Secretary of the Air Force.

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<v Speaker 2>So Jack had an incredible career, but he also was

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<v Speaker 2>exposed to a lot of really high profile, high stress positions, jobs, responsibilities.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, my dad is an amazing Vietnam hero as well,

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<v Speaker 2>And when you look at the fact that Jack was

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<v Speaker 2>at West Point, there's a lot of stress that goes

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<v Speaker 2>into that, a lot of pressure that goes on to

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<v Speaker 2>those cadets and those individuals serving our country at West Point,

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<v Speaker 2>it's an amazing institution. And then he went to Vietnam,

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<v Speaker 2>or has friends that go to Vietnam, and there's a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of trauma and stress that comes from that. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>you lose people that you love and you care about

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<v Speaker 2>that you're defending our country with. And at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>Vietnam veterans and veterans before that, they didn't have mental

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<v Speaker 2>health support to really deal with the consequences of that

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<v Speaker 2>war and service to our country. Now we are getting

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<v Speaker 2>a lot better with the VA and with military providing

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<v Speaker 2>mental health to our soldiers and to our veterans. But

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<v Speaker 2>I guarantee you that Jack did not have that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of support, nor did his comrades that he served with

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<v Speaker 2>or went to school with. And so for me, when

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<v Speaker 2>you look at that and you talk about the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that down the road we're going to have larger mental

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<v Speaker 2>health issues, the stress of all of those positions, the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that likely at that time, men especially were not

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<v Speaker 2>encouraged or supported in a pursuit of mental health care,

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<v Speaker 2>and we just didn't have the structures in place, Like

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<v Speaker 2>I remember my dad saying, you know, World War two

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<v Speaker 2>men didn't have PTSD. That's not a thing, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like because he was young and they were told you're fine,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you see years later where these men are.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a disservice to them. They're hurting and they don't

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<v Speaker 2>know how to get help because it just wasn't something

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<v Speaker 2>established or addressed at the time. And so I really

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<v Speaker 2>feel for Jack, and I feel that his positions and

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<v Speaker 2>his amazing accomplishments probably have a lot to do with

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<v Speaker 2>the mental health crisis that he could have had, or

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<v Speaker 2>at least the mental health battle he struggled with. The

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<v Speaker 2>older he got in his life, Well, we're.

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<v Speaker 1>Going to talk about this as we go along, but

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<v Speaker 1>as he got older, he did acknowledge that he had

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<v Speaker 1>some mental health issues and finally began to start treating it.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that's just remarkable about it. I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>entirely sure at what point in his life that he

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<v Speaker 1>realized he had these issues, but I think like it

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<v Speaker 1>during the late seventies and early eighties, he was thinking

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<v Speaker 1>that there are a lot of Vietnam veterans out there

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<v Speaker 1>that are struggling. So that's why I'm going to help

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<v Speaker 1>establish the memorial fund and the memorial in Washington.

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<v Speaker 3>D C.

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<v Speaker 1>Because he knew that a lot of people were struggling

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<v Speaker 1>and he wanted to pay tribute to them and help them.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's what's great is that he led a very

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<v Speaker 1>productive life and it's all the more sad that he

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<v Speaker 1>would die in such a tragic fashion.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, for our Vietnam vets, they were not

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<v Speaker 2>respected or loved on the way many other war veterans are.

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<v Speaker 2>They were brought home a war that many of them

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<v Speaker 2>didn't even understand what we were fighting for, right, and

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<v Speaker 2>they served our country the way that they honorably said

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<v Speaker 2>I'll do that, I will go and serve our country,

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<v Speaker 2>or they were drafted to do so. But the political

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<v Speaker 2>unrest here in the United States when they got home,

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<v Speaker 2>they were so disrespected and so just not cared for

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<v Speaker 2>by the community, by you know, anyone welcoming them home.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a very different feel at the time. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was that the political scene they came

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<v Speaker 2>home to at the time, but that that had a

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<v Speaker 2>big effect too of what they thought of themselves and

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<v Speaker 2>their service. And I just think it's a very complicated

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<v Speaker 2>war to be a veteran on.

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<v Speaker 3>And weren't they labeled baby killers when they came back.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it was horrible. My dad said, he got off

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<v Speaker 2>the plane, was he had been well, No, not his plane.

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<v Speaker 2>My dad had been shot five times in Vietnam and

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<v Speaker 2>was yeah, paralyzed and blind for almost two years in rehab.

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<v Speaker 2>But when he got out of the hospital, he said,

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<v Speaker 2>he got spin on like people would tell them they

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<v Speaker 2>were disgrace to our country, or he was a baby killer,

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<v Speaker 2>or they were all rapist or whatever, And my dad said,

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<v Speaker 2>we were seventeen year old boys serve in our country

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<v Speaker 2>like we didn't. You know, a lot of just a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of disrespect. And you had a lot of famous

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<v Speaker 2>people at the time protesting the war, which caused a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of backlash too in the communities right where young

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<v Speaker 2>people were saying, I support this famous person who's protesting

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<v Speaker 2>the war, and just sad like those boys did their

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<v Speaker 2>job and they came home to not having the care

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<v Speaker 2>and love and respect that you give to military personnel

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<v Speaker 2>who defended your freedom.

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<v Speaker 3>They're instruments of the government. They're being told what to do,

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<v Speaker 3>So getting mad at the instrument you should be getting

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<v Speaker 3>that at the institution, not the people.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, you don't disrespect the boys who came home or

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<v Speaker 2>in women who came home hurt, you know, like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just very.

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<v Speaker 1>Very sad. So by twenty ten, Jack had become a

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<v Speaker 1>very influential figure among Washington's elite, who had many prominent friends,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was now working as a national security consultant

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<v Speaker 1>to the nonprofit research and development firm, the Metra Corporation,

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00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:02.440
<v Speaker 1>assisting them with cybers security issues. However, in spite of

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00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Jack's personal achievements, he had lifelong struggles with depression and

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<v Speaker 1>bipolar disorder, and took medication to control his condition. For

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<v Speaker 1>the past thirteen years. Jack had been married to his

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<v Speaker 1>second wife, Catherine Kleis, and he had a twin son

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<v Speaker 1>and daughter from his first marriage, as well as two

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<v Speaker 1>step children from Catherine's first marriage. Jack and Catherine were

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<v Speaker 1>now splitting their time living in two separate residences, a

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00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:28.039
<v Speaker 1>condo in the Harlem neighborhood of New York City and

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00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:31.480
<v Speaker 1>a getaway home in the town of Newcastle, Delaware. On

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<v Speaker 1>Christmas Eve, Jack took an Amtrak train from Newcastle to

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00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:37.679
<v Speaker 1>Harlem to spend the holidays with his family, but on

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00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:40.480
<v Speaker 1>December the twenty eighth, he decided to leave and hop

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00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:44.320
<v Speaker 1>on a train to Washington, d c. Jack told Catherine

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00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:46.399
<v Speaker 1>he was planning to spend a few days there doing

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<v Speaker 1>some work for the Metra Corporation, but she was not

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<v Speaker 1>thrilled with this decision, as she hoped Jack would spend

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00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:53.799
<v Speaker 1>the rest of the holidays with her until the new year.

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<v Speaker 1>The couple got into a heated argument, but Jack still

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00:15:57.240 --> 00:15:59.759
<v Speaker 1>left on his train trip as planned and spent most

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<v Speaker 1>of the day using his phone to remain in contact

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00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:05.519
<v Speaker 1>with Catherine and other members of his family through emails

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00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:08.840
<v Speaker 1>and text messages. But even though it would be established

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00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:11.200
<v Speaker 1>that Jack arrived in Washington and spent part of the

302
00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.320
<v Speaker 1>day there, he eventually decided to hop on another train

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00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:18.679
<v Speaker 1>and make an unexplained trip to Wilmington, Delaware. Wilmington is

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00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.919
<v Speaker 1>only six miles north from Newcastle, the location of Jack's

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00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:25.919
<v Speaker 1>second home, and shortly after eleven thirty pm, Jack's next

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00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:29.639
<v Speaker 1>door neighbor, Scott Morris, heard an odd sound outside his residence.

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00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:32.480
<v Speaker 1>When Morris looked out the window, he claimed that he

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00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:34.919
<v Speaker 1>saw the darkened silhouette of a man standing in the

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00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:38.000
<v Speaker 1>frame of a three story house across the street, which

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00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:41.519
<v Speaker 1>was under construction at the time. After the man walked away,

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00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:44.159
<v Speaker 1>Morris noticed that there was smoke coming from the house,

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00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:46.960
<v Speaker 1>so he phoned the police in the fire department, but

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00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:49.879
<v Speaker 1>when the authorities arrived, they discovered that the structure was

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00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:53.039
<v Speaker 1>not actually on fire, as somewhat had tossed some smoke

315
00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:56.799
<v Speaker 1>bombs into it, causing very little damage. However, a cell

316
00:16:56.840 --> 00:16:59.600
<v Speaker 1>phone was eventually founded the scene and it was identified

317
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:03.039
<v Speaker 1>as below. To Jack Wheeler, crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>When you think about this fact that it's Christmas time

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00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:08.480
<v Speaker 2>and you have a family who's trying to figure out

320
00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.720
<v Speaker 2>holiday plans, right, and there's this big argument, it makes

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00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:14.559
<v Speaker 2>you wonder is that big argument any part of the

322
00:17:14.599 --> 00:17:17.599
<v Speaker 2>mental health crisis that could have come from that? But

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00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:21.039
<v Speaker 2>Jack says, listen, I'm gonna be with family for the holidays,

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<v Speaker 2>but then I'm going to be working for this corporation.

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00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:26.160
<v Speaker 2>Am I right when I say he does not inform

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00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:28.880
<v Speaker 2>anyone that he's actually going to Delaware, that's where his

327
00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:31.759
<v Speaker 2>house is located, but he doesn't tell the family that

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00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:33.279
<v Speaker 2>he's going to make that pit stop there.

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00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:35.519
<v Speaker 1>That's correct. He just said that he was going to Washington,

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00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:38.039
<v Speaker 1>but did not tell anyone that he was going to Wilmington.

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<v Speaker 1>So we have a couple hours of him in Washington

332
00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:43.039
<v Speaker 1>and we don't actually know what he does there, But

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00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:45.640
<v Speaker 1>at some point he just makes the spontaneous decision to

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00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:48.119
<v Speaker 1>go up to like the same area where his house

335
00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:51.480
<v Speaker 1>is and then potentially throw smoke bombs into this other

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00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:54.799
<v Speaker 1>house that's under construction. So it's a sign that something

337
00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:56.359
<v Speaker 1>has really broken inside of him.

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<v Speaker 3>Where does someone acquire smoke bombs?

339
00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:02.279
<v Speaker 1>We do make later on, But Jack often used them

340
00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:05.039
<v Speaker 1>into his garden to get rid of bugs, apparently, so

341
00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:06.880
<v Speaker 1>he did own them. I don't think he just went

342
00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:09.039
<v Speaker 1>out and bought them that very same day. I think

343
00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:10.519
<v Speaker 1>he kept them inside his house.

344
00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:15.480
<v Speaker 3>Jack's residence was located across the street from a house

345
00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:18.359
<v Speaker 3>which was under construction, and he'd spent a lot of

346
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:22.960
<v Speaker 3>time and energy organizing petitions and filing legal challenges in

347
00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:26.400
<v Speaker 3>order to prevent it from being built. Jack was unhappy

348
00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:28.400
<v Speaker 3>that the house was going to block his view of

349
00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:32.359
<v Speaker 3>the Delaware River and opposed any construction on that particular

350
00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:36.279
<v Speaker 3>piece of land, as he felt it had historical significance

351
00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:39.759
<v Speaker 3>since William Penn had taken his first step on American

352
00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:43.599
<v Speaker 3>soil there in sixteen eighty two. While Jack had attempted

353
00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:47.079
<v Speaker 3>to file a temporary restraining order against construction of the house,

354
00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:51.759
<v Speaker 3>a Delaware Court of chancery judge had denied Jack's request

355
00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:56.160
<v Speaker 3>over two weeks earlier, on December thirteenth. The incident with

356
00:18:56.200 --> 00:19:01.079
<v Speaker 3>the smoke bombs was particularly interesting since Jack Robin just mentioned,

357
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:03.599
<v Speaker 3>was known to own smoke bombs, which he would use

358
00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:06.880
<v Speaker 3>to get rid of rodents in his garden. The following morning,

359
00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:09.720
<v Speaker 3>at eight forty five am, Jack hailed a cab from

360
00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:13.200
<v Speaker 3>the Amtrak station in Wilmington to the Hotel du Pont,

361
00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:16.920
<v Speaker 3>Which is unclear why he decided to visit this location

362
00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:21.119
<v Speaker 3>since records would show he never registered there. But about

363
00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:23.960
<v Speaker 3>forty five minutes later, Jack sent an email to the

364
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:27.680
<v Speaker 3>Metra Corporation to inform them that his house was burglarized

365
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:32.839
<v Speaker 3>and a number of his personal items, including his cell phone, briefcase, wallet,

366
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:37.079
<v Speaker 3>identification badge, and Keith fob, had been stolen. He also

367
00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:39.880
<v Speaker 3>sent an email to his daughter and another one to

368
00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:42.680
<v Speaker 3>his therapist to say that he felt dazed, boxed, and

369
00:19:42.759 --> 00:19:45.799
<v Speaker 3>in a corner following his most recent fight with Catherine.

370
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:48.400
<v Speaker 3>Since Jack no longer had his cell phone in his

371
00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:51.759
<v Speaker 3>possession by this point, it's never been made clear where

372
00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:54.759
<v Speaker 3>exactly he sent these emails from, and even though he

373
00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:58.559
<v Speaker 3>told his employer that he'd been burglarized. Jack never attempted

374
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:02.240
<v Speaker 3>to report the incident to the pull. Jack's wareboats for

375
00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:06.039
<v Speaker 3>the next several hours are unknown, but at around six pm,

376
00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:09.960
<v Speaker 3>he walked into Happy Harry's pharmacy in Newcastle, located just

377
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:13.079
<v Speaker 3>a few blocks from his residence. Jack was captured by

378
00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:16.720
<v Speaker 3>the security cameras, and the pharmacist immediately recognized him since

379
00:20:16.759 --> 00:20:19.839
<v Speaker 3>he was a regular customer who often had his prescriptions

380
00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:23.039
<v Speaker 3>filled here. Even though it was very cool, it was

381
00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:25.680
<v Speaker 3>a very cold night. Jack was only dressed in a

382
00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:29.119
<v Speaker 3>suit jacket and did not have an overcoat. According to

383
00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:32.119
<v Speaker 3>the pharmacist, Jack looked visibly upset and asked for a

384
00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:36.160
<v Speaker 3>ride to Wilmington. Since the pharmacist couldn't leave the establishment,

385
00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:39.200
<v Speaker 3>he offered to call Jack a cab, but even though

386
00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:41.839
<v Speaker 3>Jack declined, he managed to convince a couple there to

387
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:43.599
<v Speaker 3>give him a ride before they left together.

388
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:47.319
<v Speaker 2>That is also a little bit odd. It doesn't sound

389
00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:50.799
<v Speaker 2>like he knew this couple that he asked for a ride.

390
00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:54.640
<v Speaker 2>He's not necessarily dressed for the right weather, and he

391
00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:57.599
<v Speaker 2>seemed dazed and boxed in a corner is what he

392
00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:01.359
<v Speaker 2>says when he's reaching out to family. This robbery that

393
00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:03.599
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't report to the police. But he says he's

394
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:07.119
<v Speaker 2>been burglarized, He's lost all of his important documents, including

395
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:12.119
<v Speaker 2>his I believe, his wallet, his identification badge, his key fob,

396
00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:15.920
<v Speaker 2>his cell phone, and you still don't report it. It

397
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:19.440
<v Speaker 2>does start to sound like he's in this spiral where

398
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:23.200
<v Speaker 2>maybe he's perceiving that he's at risk or perceiving that

399
00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:25.880
<v Speaker 2>he's in danger, when in actuality, he's just kind of

400
00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:30.039
<v Speaker 2>losing connection with reality. I do wonder how much that

401
00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:32.960
<v Speaker 2>argument with Catherine plays into that, right, like sometimes trauma

402
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:37.279
<v Speaker 2>and stress spurs on a mental health crisis. I also

403
00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:41.799
<v Speaker 2>wonder was there any indication that he could have been

404
00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:44.160
<v Speaker 2>meeting somebody at that house in Delaware, which is why

405
00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:45.559
<v Speaker 2>he didn't tell anyone about it.

406
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:49.160
<v Speaker 1>I guess it's possible, but they never found any communications.

407
00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:52.519
<v Speaker 1>I mean, obviously he didn't send any emails or text

408
00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:55.000
<v Speaker 1>from his phone or anything. But I guess he could

409
00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:57.559
<v Speaker 1>have called someone on a payphone, or maybe had spoken

410
00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:00.000
<v Speaker 1>to someone ahead of time meet me at my hose

411
00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:03.039
<v Speaker 1>in Delaware at this particular time. But I was going

412
00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:05.160
<v Speaker 1>to talk about throughout the course of his actions, he's

413
00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:07.440
<v Speaker 1>captured on a lot of surveillance footage, and he is

414
00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:10.559
<v Speaker 1>never in the presence of any strangers or anyone who

415
00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:13.440
<v Speaker 1>appears to be following him around. So I don't see

416
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:16.759
<v Speaker 1>any indication that he had any encounters with anyone except

417
00:22:16.839 --> 00:22:18.960
<v Speaker 1>the people that came forward as witnesses.

418
00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:22.839
<v Speaker 2>And who's this couple. Who's the couple gave him the ride.

419
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:26.000
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of interesting. After this air, they interviewed the

420
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:29.319
<v Speaker 1>producer of Unsolved Mysteries and she said that they were

421
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:31.720
<v Speaker 1>able to find out from police records that this couple

422
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:35.240
<v Speaker 1>was questioned and ruled out his suspects. But I know

423
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:37.559
<v Speaker 1>that the show tried to track them down to interview

424
00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:39.400
<v Speaker 1>them again and see if they would give their account

425
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:41.559
<v Speaker 1>of their encounters with Jack, but they could not find

426
00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:44.920
<v Speaker 1>their whereabouts, so their identity is kind of unknown to

427
00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:47.599
<v Speaker 1>the public. But they were looked at by police during

428
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:49.200
<v Speaker 1>the early stages of the investigation.

429
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:53.200
<v Speaker 3>And even though Jack might not have been followed on

430
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:56.400
<v Speaker 3>security cameras, that doesn't mean that he didn't have the

431
00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:59.599
<v Speaker 3>perception that he was being followed, because it seems like

432
00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:02.240
<v Speaker 3>and he's talking when he's saying to family that like

433
00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:05.200
<v Speaker 3>he feels boxed in in days, feels like a moment

434
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:08.640
<v Speaker 3>of lucidity within you know, a mental health crisis or

435
00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:14.160
<v Speaker 3>bipolar mania that can lead to psychosis, And if anyone

436
00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:17.839
<v Speaker 3>has ever experienced that, I mean I can I've experienced hypomania.

437
00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:20.079
<v Speaker 3>I've never had a manic episode, but I can say

438
00:23:20.359 --> 00:23:22.640
<v Speaker 3>at a point when I've had very little sleep and

439
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:26.279
<v Speaker 3>I feel like my behavior is verging on what could

440
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:29.160
<v Speaker 3>be dangerous, I can only describe it as during a

441
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:32.480
<v Speaker 3>moment of lucidity, questioning what I'm doing and being like

442
00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:35.319
<v Speaker 3>it feels like I'm running with scissors. That's like the

443
00:23:35.319 --> 00:23:38.079
<v Speaker 3>best way I could possibly describe it. And it seems

444
00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:40.519
<v Speaker 3>like in this moment, that's what Jack is able to

445
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:43.440
<v Speaker 3>reach out and say. So it's hard to know if

446
00:23:43.480 --> 00:23:47.240
<v Speaker 3>like all of these behaviors that he's doing are because

447
00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:49.880
<v Speaker 3>it's some kind of subterfuge because he believes that he's

448
00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:52.759
<v Speaker 3>being followed, or he believes that he's under threat, or

449
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:55.839
<v Speaker 3>if he's questioning whether or not he's just doing these

450
00:23:55.960 --> 00:23:58.440
<v Speaker 3>because of the state that he's in. It's just it's

451
00:23:58.480 --> 00:23:59.079
<v Speaker 3>so hard to know.

452
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because on some of the surveillance footage that shows him,

453
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:05.319
<v Speaker 1>like you can clearly see that he's not being followed

454
00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:08.039
<v Speaker 1>or shadowed by anyone, but by his body language. Yanit

455
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:10.240
<v Speaker 1>kind of get the sense that he is paranoid or

456
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:12.480
<v Speaker 1>feels like he might be in danger, though you can

457
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:14.440
<v Speaker 1>never really know what's going on in his mind at

458
00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:18.640
<v Speaker 1>that moment. Well about forty minutes after he left the pharmacy,

459
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.359
<v Speaker 1>security camera footage recapture Jack walking through the parking garage

460
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:26.319
<v Speaker 1>attached to the Newcastle County Courthouse in Wilmington. He was

461
00:24:26.359 --> 00:24:28.480
<v Speaker 1>walking around with what appeared to be a limp and

462
00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:31.119
<v Speaker 1>was carrying his right shoe in his left hand, and

463
00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:34.079
<v Speaker 1>his body language seemed to indicate that he was disoriented

464
00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:37.839
<v Speaker 1>and agitated. When Jack spoke to the parking attendant on duty,

465
00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:39.799
<v Speaker 1>he told her that he had been robbed and that

466
00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:43.000
<v Speaker 1>his briefcase, which contained his parking ticket, had been stolen.

467
00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:45.480
<v Speaker 1>He also said that he could not find his car,

468
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:48.720
<v Speaker 1>but in actuality, Jack had actually left his car at

469
00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:52.119
<v Speaker 1>an entirely different parking garage at the Amtrak train station

470
00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:56.000
<v Speaker 1>three blocks away. Jack originally parked there when he arrived

471
00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:59.039
<v Speaker 1>in Newcastle one week earlier, before he took the train

472
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.079
<v Speaker 1>to New York on Masive to see his family. A

473
00:25:02.119 --> 00:25:04.480
<v Speaker 1>security guard from the courthouse was summoned down to the

474
00:25:04.519 --> 00:25:07.160
<v Speaker 1>parking garage to speak with Jack, and would later say

475
00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:09.319
<v Speaker 1>that his eyes were red, as if he had recently

476
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:12.039
<v Speaker 1>been crying. In spite of this, the guard said that

477
00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:14.519
<v Speaker 1>Jack did not smell of alcohol in his speech was

478
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:17.599
<v Speaker 1>not slurred, and when a state employee offered Jack money

479
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:20.119
<v Speaker 1>to get home, he declined and said that he already

480
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:23.640
<v Speaker 1>had enough money on him. Jack soon left the parking garage,

481
00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:25.880
<v Speaker 1>and since the next confirmed sighting of him would not

482
00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:29.000
<v Speaker 1>take place until the following morning, it's unclear where he

483
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:31.880
<v Speaker 1>spent the night. At around eight am on the morning

484
00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:34.640
<v Speaker 1>of December the thirtieth, Jack was seen buying coffee at

485
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:37.480
<v Speaker 1>a subway sandwich shop, and the owner would later describe

486
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:40.000
<v Speaker 1>him as looking like a homeless person, as he was

487
00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:42.240
<v Speaker 1>no longer wearing a sport coat and had on a

488
00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:45.839
<v Speaker 1>dress shirt which was filthy from the elbows down. Later

489
00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:48.519
<v Speaker 1>that day, Jack was seen wandering through the lobby of

490
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.599
<v Speaker 1>the high rise office building, the Amor's Building, and even

491
00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:54.880
<v Speaker 1>though multiple people asked him if he needed help, Jack declined.

492
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:58.039
<v Speaker 1>He eventually made it to the tenth floor and visited

493
00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:01.880
<v Speaker 1>the law firm Connolipo Lodge and Huts, where he asked

494
00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:05.200
<v Speaker 1>to speak with a managing partner, while the receptionist left

495
00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:08.559
<v Speaker 1>her desk to go find someone Jack left before she returned.

496
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:12.359
<v Speaker 1>Jack also paid a visit to a small business administration

497
00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:14.680
<v Speaker 1>office on the eleventh floor to ask for a ride

498
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:18.759
<v Speaker 1>to Philadelphia for unknown reasons. At three twenty six pm,

499
00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:22.720
<v Speaker 1>security cameras captured Jack wandering around the Nemors Building's basement,

500
00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:26.599
<v Speaker 1>and later that night, surveillance footage showed him exiting the building,

501
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:29.680
<v Speaker 1>and he was now wearing a dark hooded sweatshirt which

502
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:32.279
<v Speaker 1>his family believed did not belong to him, and was

503
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:34.519
<v Speaker 1>pulled up over his head in an attempt to cover

504
00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:38.440
<v Speaker 1>his face. At eight forty two pm, a security camera

505
00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:42.880
<v Speaker 1>outside the Hotel DuPont showed Jack walking east towards Rodney Square,

506
00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:45.720
<v Speaker 1>but what happened to him next remains a mystery.

507
00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:50.240
<v Speaker 2>This is heartbreaking when you think about the description of

508
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:53.440
<v Speaker 2>Jack and the many people who are running into him,

509
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:56.359
<v Speaker 2>and clearly they know something's wrong, but they don't know

510
00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:00.799
<v Speaker 2>what's wrong is It's just devastating. So you have people

511
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:03.960
<v Speaker 2>who see him in the parking lot and they know

512
00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:06.720
<v Speaker 2>enough is wrong to go ahead and get someone to

513
00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:08.759
<v Speaker 2>come down and try to talk to him. One on one,

514
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:12.079
<v Speaker 2>and so when the security guard comes down from the courthouse,

515
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:14.640
<v Speaker 2>he's talking to Jack and he says, listen, the poor guy.

516
00:27:14.839 --> 00:27:18.200
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't like he's this, you know, belligerent, drunk or

517
00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:21.319
<v Speaker 2>something that's going on and on he's something's wrong. It

518
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:24.359
<v Speaker 2>looked like he was crying. He looks really dishoveled. He's

519
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:28.400
<v Speaker 2>limping with his shoe off, like there's clearly a mental

520
00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:32.160
<v Speaker 2>health crisis going on here. Something's happened, and then it

521
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:35.839
<v Speaker 2>kind of just keeps escalating where he looks dirty, he's

522
00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:39.640
<v Speaker 2>seen where people describe him as looking homeless. He's stumbling

523
00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:42.640
<v Speaker 2>around and random places without really any explanation as to

524
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:45.559
<v Speaker 2>why he would be there. And then we see him

525
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:48.039
<v Speaker 2>with that dark hooded sweatshirt, which a family says, I

526
00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:52.279
<v Speaker 2>don't think that's him, and we don't know what happens

527
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:55.400
<v Speaker 2>to him after that. But he's making these stops and

528
00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:58.920
<v Speaker 2>not following through with any kind of actual success there,

529
00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:00.839
<v Speaker 2>like the law off as he goes and it leaves

530
00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:03.200
<v Speaker 2>when the lady comes in. He goes down to the

531
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:08.039
<v Speaker 2>Small Administration Business Small Business Administration office. Who the heck

532
00:28:08.119 --> 00:28:11.039
<v Speaker 2>knows what he did there. It doesn't seem like logical

533
00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:12.880
<v Speaker 2>movements where people can say, oh yeah, he came in

534
00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:15.599
<v Speaker 2>and applied for an LLC, Oh yeah, he came in

535
00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:20.640
<v Speaker 2>and asked us about workmen's comp or you know, filing

536
00:28:20.680 --> 00:28:25.079
<v Speaker 2>in a lawsuit for workplace malpractice whatever, none of that.

537
00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:27.680
<v Speaker 2>So it's almost like he's just going from place to

538
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:30.839
<v Speaker 2>place and you see all these people saying, can we

539
00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:33.799
<v Speaker 2>help you? Is something wrong? Can we call someone for you?

540
00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:37.599
<v Speaker 2>And unfortunately Jack declines all of that. So, Jules, I

541
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:40.119
<v Speaker 2>think you nailed at where it's that perception of somebody's

542
00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:42.920
<v Speaker 2>after me or something's wrong. So he's in that heightened

543
00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:47.319
<v Speaker 2>paranoid state and he just is stumbling around lost.

544
00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:51.039
<v Speaker 3>Do we know if he had any familiarity with this building.

545
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:54.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm not entirely sure. We're gonna talk about this later.

546
00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:57.599
<v Speaker 1>But he did have an attorney with the last name Connolly,

547
00:28:57.759 --> 00:28:59.759
<v Speaker 1>so it's been theorized that he might have gone to

548
00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:02.480
<v Speaker 1>this particular law firm because it had Connolly in the name,

549
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:05.920
<v Speaker 1>but his Connolly did not actually work there. So it's

550
00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:08.079
<v Speaker 1>almost like he goes to this building and he's seeing

551
00:29:08.119 --> 00:29:10.880
<v Speaker 1>stuff that's kind of familiar to him, but he's not sure,

552
00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:13.440
<v Speaker 1>and that's why he's stopping at this random law firm

553
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:15.960
<v Speaker 1>that he's never been to before. But some of that

554
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:18.680
<v Speaker 1>stuff is completely unexplained, Like we still don't know why

555
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:21.440
<v Speaker 1>he went to this small Business Administration office to ask

556
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:24.079
<v Speaker 1>for a ride to Philadelphia, because as far as anyone

557
00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:27.160
<v Speaker 1>can tell, he didn't have any connections there. So I

558
00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:29.160
<v Speaker 1>think he was just going into this building because there

559
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:31.160
<v Speaker 1>was something going on in his mind that made him

560
00:29:31.160 --> 00:29:33.519
<v Speaker 1>think that he was familiar with it. But as far

561
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:35.359
<v Speaker 1>as anyone can tell, I don't know if he'd ever

562
00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:36.079
<v Speaker 1>been there before.

563
00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:41.599
<v Speaker 3>Well, earlier that day, one of Jack's neighbors in Newcastle,

564
00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:45.000
<v Speaker 3>Robert Dill, who functioned as a caretaker for the Wheeler

565
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:47.799
<v Speaker 3>residence when they were not there, noticed that one of

566
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:51.720
<v Speaker 3>the houses upstairs rear windows was open. When Dill went

567
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:54.240
<v Speaker 3>over to the house, he discovered that his side door

568
00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:57.519
<v Speaker 3>was open, so he decided to go inside. It appeared

569
00:29:57.519 --> 00:30:00.720
<v Speaker 3>that the residence had been burglarized, as chairs knocked over,

570
00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:04.279
<v Speaker 3>a plant had been overturned, a spice rack was knocked over,

571
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:07.400
<v Speaker 3>and there were broken dishes in the kitchen sink. Some

572
00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:10.440
<v Speaker 3>powdered cleanser had been spilled on the kitchen floor, and

573
00:30:10.519 --> 00:30:12.599
<v Speaker 3>there was the lining of a bare footprint in it.

574
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:16.440
<v Speaker 3>Dill also noticed that one of Jack's most prized possessions,

575
00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:20.400
<v Speaker 3>his ceremonial West Point Cadet Sword and Shield, was lying

576
00:30:20.440 --> 00:30:23.559
<v Speaker 3>on the floor nearby. In addition, a copy of that

577
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:27.079
<v Speaker 3>book we've mentioned earlier, the Long Gray Line, The American

578
00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:30.400
<v Speaker 3>Journey of West Point's Class of nineteen sixty six, was

579
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.519
<v Speaker 3>lying open on the kitchen counter. On the surface, it

580
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:36.759
<v Speaker 3>did not appear that anything was stolen, but Dill proceeded

581
00:30:36.759 --> 00:30:39.519
<v Speaker 3>to phone both Jack and Catherine cell phones and left

582
00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:43.960
<v Speaker 3>them voicemails about the situation. After not receiving any response

583
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:47.000
<v Speaker 3>from either of them, Dill decided to inform the police

584
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:50.079
<v Speaker 3>about the break in the following day. It turned out

585
00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:53.200
<v Speaker 3>that Catherine had made repeated attempts to call Jack's cell phone,

586
00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:55.920
<v Speaker 3>but they kept going a voicemail and he never returned

587
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:59.000
<v Speaker 3>her calls. Jack and Catherine had been planning to attend

588
00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:02.039
<v Speaker 3>a cousin's wedding on New Year's Eve, but when she

589
00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:03.920
<v Speaker 3>couldn't get a hold of him, Catherine went to the

590
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.240
<v Speaker 3>wedding alone. While at the time she left, Catherine was

591
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:10.720
<v Speaker 3>not yet aware that Jack has been found dead. Shortly

592
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:13.680
<v Speaker 3>before ten a m. On the morning of December thirty first,

593
00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:17.920
<v Speaker 3>a spotter at the Cherry Island landfill in Wilmington discovered

594
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:20.240
<v Speaker 3>a body on top of the trash heap, and he

595
00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:24.720
<v Speaker 3>was soon positively identified as Jack Wheeler. An autopsy would

596
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:28.079
<v Speaker 3>soon discover that Jack suffered a number of serious injuries,

597
00:31:28.519 --> 00:31:32.920
<v Speaker 3>including a collapse lung, broken ribs, as well as severe

598
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:36.200
<v Speaker 3>bruising and swelling to his face and lacerations all over

599
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:40.000
<v Speaker 3>his body. There have also been conflicting accounts about whether

600
00:31:40.119 --> 00:31:42.720
<v Speaker 3>or not Jack suffered a heart attack prior to his death.

601
00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:46.559
<v Speaker 3>Months later, during an interview in an article with the

602
00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:50.440
<v Speaker 3>Wilmington based newspaper The News Journal, Catherine said the police

603
00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:53.640
<v Speaker 3>kept changing their mind about the heart attack, stating, quote

604
00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:56.599
<v Speaker 3>first they said he did, then they said he didn't,

605
00:31:56.839 --> 00:32:00.920
<v Speaker 3>Then they said he did, end quote cardless. The medical

606
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:04.599
<v Speaker 3>examiner believed the Jack's injuries were consistent with the beating,

607
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:07.640
<v Speaker 3>ruling that his exact cause of death was blunt force

608
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:11.480
<v Speaker 3>trauma and the manner of death was listed as homicide.

609
00:32:11.720 --> 00:32:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Imagine, poor Catherine. This is a man that she's been

610
00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:15.279
<v Speaker 2>married to.

611
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:16.200
<v Speaker 1>For quite a while.

612
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:19.519
<v Speaker 2>They got into a fuss around the holidays, and they

613
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:21.680
<v Speaker 2>still have plans like She's like, listen, it's fine.

614
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:22.440
<v Speaker 1>Couple's fight.

615
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:25.039
<v Speaker 2>That's a fuss, you know, And she says, we have

616
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:27.279
<v Speaker 2>plans to go to our cousin's wedding on New Year's Eve,

617
00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:31.359
<v Speaker 2>but he's not returning her phone calls. And there had

618
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:35.640
<v Speaker 2>been communication with the family throughout his trip for quite

619
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:38.400
<v Speaker 2>a while. He's emailing his daughter, he was checking in

620
00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:41.319
<v Speaker 2>with his phone. But then once that phone quote goes

621
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:45.200
<v Speaker 2>missing or is stolen, you obviously see that communication stop.

622
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:50.039
<v Speaker 2>And Jack is clearly in a downward spiral of kind

623
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:53.759
<v Speaker 2>of what reality is and what reality is not. What's

624
00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:56.720
<v Speaker 2>sad is that she's not getting clear information even after

625
00:32:56.759 --> 00:32:59.359
<v Speaker 2>his body's discovered. What was the cause of death? Is

626
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:01.799
<v Speaker 2>it the heart attack? Is at this beating? And that's

627
00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:04.359
<v Speaker 2>super confusing for her as well and causes a lack

628
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:07.759
<v Speaker 2>of trust in the police department, because give me a

629
00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:10.680
<v Speaker 2>straight answer, don't keep changing what you're telling me, or

630
00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:13.559
<v Speaker 2>else I can't trust anything else you're telling me moving forward.

631
00:33:14.599 --> 00:33:16.920
<v Speaker 2>When you do look at what the medical examiner says

632
00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:20.599
<v Speaker 2>the injuries look like, which is that beating blunt force

633
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:24.559
<v Speaker 2>trauma and they list his cause of death as a homicide,

634
00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:28.000
<v Speaker 2>then I really do start thinking exactly what Jules said.

635
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:33.160
<v Speaker 2>Either because he is disheveled very clearly isn't aware of

636
00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:36.039
<v Speaker 2>what's real and what's not. Someone who encounters him doesn't

637
00:33:36.039 --> 00:33:38.599
<v Speaker 2>say can I help you? They say I can hurt

638
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:42.319
<v Speaker 2>you because you're vulnerable and easy. You can't defend yourself

639
00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:44.759
<v Speaker 2>right now because you're not in your right mind. So

640
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:48.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm thinking he either becomes the victim of somebody's foul play,

641
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:53.279
<v Speaker 2>or the other scenario becomes he actually acts out with aggression,

642
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:56.880
<v Speaker 2>maybe scare somebody gets into an altercation with someone who

643
00:33:56.920 --> 00:33:59.480
<v Speaker 2>isn't mature enough to say, something's clearly wrong with this man.

644
00:33:59.480 --> 00:34:01.799
<v Speaker 2>I need to get a way, and he's met with

645
00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:04.839
<v Speaker 2>an attack against him because of something he presents in

646
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:09.119
<v Speaker 2>his own behavior. So I think that's a very plausible situation.

647
00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:13.119
<v Speaker 2>And then who knows. I think you said in the opening, Robin,

648
00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:16.360
<v Speaker 2>some people were saying those injuries could also be because

649
00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:18.519
<v Speaker 2>of the way his body was disposed of and the

650
00:34:18.519 --> 00:34:20.679
<v Speaker 2>way that if he was, let's say, rummaging through a

651
00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:24.679
<v Speaker 2>trash can and got crushed, could that also be consistent.

652
00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:26.039
<v Speaker 2>So you'll have to tell me more about that, I

653
00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:28.599
<v Speaker 2>hope later on, But right now it's feeling like what

654
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:31.519
<v Speaker 2>Jules put forward, he ran into somebody who either said

655
00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:34.880
<v Speaker 2>you're vulnerable or you're scaring me, and it ended in

656
00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:35.880
<v Speaker 2>an assault.

657
00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:38.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's definitely the reverse of a lot of these

658
00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:41.440
<v Speaker 1>type of cases because you'll often see a law enforcement

659
00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:43.639
<v Speaker 1>or the medical examiner rule someone's death to be a

660
00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:47.320
<v Speaker 1>suicide or an accident, and here they say homicide right

661
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:50.400
<v Speaker 1>at the back. They say that his injuries are consistent

662
00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:52.760
<v Speaker 1>with being attacked by someone, and it's only after they

663
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:55.480
<v Speaker 1>learn more information that people start going, well, maybe it

664
00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:58.760
<v Speaker 1>was an accidental death, maybe he wound up any trash

665
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:02.960
<v Speaker 1>compactor or something. Because we have no accounting of his

666
00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:06.199
<v Speaker 1>whereabouts for several hours before he was found in the landfill,

667
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:09.760
<v Speaker 1>we can't be one hundred percent certain what happened to him.

668
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:13.639
<v Speaker 1>Investigators attempted to backtrack Jack's movements after he left the

669
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:16.480
<v Speaker 1>Nemors building to try and determine how he wound up

670
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:19.760
<v Speaker 1>at the Cherry Island landfill. They eventually spoke to a

671
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:22.519
<v Speaker 1>witness who hailed a taxi cab from Wilmington at around

672
00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:25.760
<v Speaker 1>eleven pm on December thirtieth, which was headed to the

673
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:29.760
<v Speaker 1>town of Newark, located fourteen miles away. The witness said

674
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:32.280
<v Speaker 1>that a man matching Jack's description asked to share the

675
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:34.239
<v Speaker 1>cab ride with him when he heard it was going

676
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:37.440
<v Speaker 1>to Newark. Well, Jack did not have any known connections

677
00:35:37.480 --> 00:35:40.639
<v Speaker 1>to Newark. Investigators learned that during the early morning hours

678
00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:43.800
<v Speaker 1>of December the thirty first, a garbage truck driver named

679
00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:47.360
<v Speaker 1>Mike Robowski emptied ten dumpsters in Newark as part of

680
00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:50.719
<v Speaker 1>his trash collection route and subsequently dumped the contents of

681
00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:54.800
<v Speaker 1>his load into the Cherry Island landfill. According to Grabowski,

682
00:35:55.039 --> 00:35:57.559
<v Speaker 1>it was not uncommon for people to suddenly emerge from

683
00:35:57.639 --> 00:36:00.039
<v Speaker 1>dumpsters before his truck was in the midst of lifting

684
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:03.079
<v Speaker 1>them up, as these dumpsters were equipped with side doors

685
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:06.159
<v Speaker 1>which would allow someone to climb inside. This led to

686
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:09.920
<v Speaker 1>speculation that Grabowski may have unknowingly transported Jack's body of

687
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:12.880
<v Speaker 1>the landfill, and when forensic testing was performed on the

688
00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:16.559
<v Speaker 1>dumpsters from Grabowski's route, it turned up a partial DNA

689
00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:19.480
<v Speaker 1>match to Jack in one of them.

690
00:36:19.639 --> 00:36:22.159
<v Speaker 2>That's incredible. So when you look at this idea, this

691
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:25.559
<v Speaker 2>is lending credence to the idea that maybe it is

692
00:36:26.159 --> 00:36:29.400
<v Speaker 2>actually the result of Jack being in that garbage can

693
00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:33.880
<v Speaker 2>and the injuries to his body aren't from a beating

694
00:36:33.960 --> 00:36:35.719
<v Speaker 2>or anything like that, but it could be from these

695
00:36:35.800 --> 00:36:37.679
<v Speaker 2>dumpsters in the side door and the way that the

696
00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:40.480
<v Speaker 2>truck is going to actually transport his body to the landfill.

697
00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:43.159
<v Speaker 3>But what if somebody beat him and then threw them

698
00:36:43.159 --> 00:36:43.800
<v Speaker 3>in the dumpster.

699
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:45.320
<v Speaker 2>That's also true.

700
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:47.280
<v Speaker 1>There's no way to know. There's no way to know

701
00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:49.920
<v Speaker 1>that exactly. It could be a combination of both. It

702
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:52.199
<v Speaker 1>doesn't mean that he crawled inside and was crushed. It

703
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:54.840
<v Speaker 1>could mean that someone attacked him beforehand and put his

704
00:36:54.920 --> 00:36:57.320
<v Speaker 1>body in there. But it is interesting that when the

705
00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:01.119
<v Speaker 1>medical examiner listed the homicide ruling, did not yet know

706
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:04.239
<v Speaker 1>that Jack had possibly been in a garbage dumpster. Like

707
00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:06.960
<v Speaker 1>all he knew was that he wound up in the landfill.

708
00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:09.079
<v Speaker 1>And it does make you wonder though that if he

709
00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:11.960
<v Speaker 1>had known Jack was inside the garbage truck, would he

710
00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:15.679
<v Speaker 1>have possibly given a different ruling. Question.

711
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:18.519
<v Speaker 2>We know that Jack earlier had been stumbling around with

712
00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:21.360
<v Speaker 2>like a limp and looked like he had a shoe

713
00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:24.039
<v Speaker 2>in his hand and things like that. I guess there's

714
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:25.800
<v Speaker 2>no way of knowing if he had actually had an

715
00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:28.639
<v Speaker 2>altercation previously with somebody where he got injured, or if

716
00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:30.880
<v Speaker 2>he just fell and hurt himself. Right, because he wasn't

717
00:37:30.920 --> 00:37:32.280
<v Speaker 2>stable at the time.

718
00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:34.840
<v Speaker 1>It's certainly possible he could have had an altercation. I mean,

719
00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:38.159
<v Speaker 1>I don't believe the witnesses saw any noticeable like bruises

720
00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:40.559
<v Speaker 1>or injuries on him at that time to indicate that

721
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:42.960
<v Speaker 1>he had gotten into a fight. But we still don't

722
00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:44.679
<v Speaker 1>know the source of the limp. Could it have been

723
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:46.760
<v Speaker 1>like some sort of stroke, or could he have a

724
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:49.559
<v Speaker 1>medical issue, or could he have fallen down somewhere, or

725
00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:52.360
<v Speaker 1>could he have actually gotten into a fight. We just

726
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:54.960
<v Speaker 1>don't know his whereabouts before they saw him with the limp.

727
00:37:56.320 --> 00:37:59.159
<v Speaker 3>But the big unanswered question was whether Jack might have

728
00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:02.280
<v Speaker 3>climbed into the umster himself, possibly in an attempt to

729
00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:05.599
<v Speaker 3>keep warm, or if an unknown third party killed him

730
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:08.760
<v Speaker 3>and placed his body in there. Since Jack still had

731
00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:11.920
<v Speaker 3>many valuable items on him when he was found, including

732
00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:15.440
<v Speaker 3>some cash, a Rolex watch, and his West Point Class ring,

733
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:18.679
<v Speaker 3>it seemed unlikely that robbery was the motive for a

734
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:23.199
<v Speaker 3>potential homicide. Jack's family offered a reward of twenty five

735
00:38:23.239 --> 00:38:26.760
<v Speaker 3>thousand dollars, which was later increased to fifty thousand, for

736
00:38:26.840 --> 00:38:29.840
<v Speaker 3>information that led to the arrest of a suspect and

737
00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:32.440
<v Speaker 3>pushed forward the idea that he was murdered due to

738
00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:35.679
<v Speaker 3>something connected to his past government work or his current

739
00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:40.679
<v Speaker 3>position at the Metro Corporation. In fact, Catherine openly speculated

740
00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:44.800
<v Speaker 3>that Jack may have been of a professional hit, stating quote,

741
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:47.400
<v Speaker 3>I think perhaps no one has been in on the

742
00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:52.199
<v Speaker 3>reward because they've already been paid end quote. Since Jack's

743
00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:55.639
<v Speaker 3>death likely occurred in Newark, the Newark Police Department took

744
00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:58.679
<v Speaker 3>over the investigation, but even though the case would be

745
00:38:58.760 --> 00:39:02.760
<v Speaker 3>investigated by no less than three different agencies, including the FBI,

746
00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:06.559
<v Speaker 3>they failed to turn up any promising suspect who might

747
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:10.400
<v Speaker 3>have been responsible for killing him. Four months after his death,

748
00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:14.280
<v Speaker 3>Jack's body was cremated and his remains were interred with

749
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:19.320
<v Speaker 3>full military honors at the Columbarium at Arlington National Cemetery.

750
00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:23.199
<v Speaker 3>But after more than a decade, the exact circumstances of

751
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:26.000
<v Speaker 3>how Jack Wheeler was killed remain up for debate.

752
00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:29.079
<v Speaker 1>Gets say, the path went Chile.

753
00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:33.039
<v Speaker 2>This really does Wreek of the Ray rivera case right

754
00:39:33.079 --> 00:39:36.840
<v Speaker 2>where there's no way of knowing exactly what happened. But

755
00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:40.760
<v Speaker 2>here when when you're looking at this case, it's even

756
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:44.639
<v Speaker 2>more confusing because the end results can point to so

757
00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:48.000
<v Speaker 2>many different explanations. Like you said, my first thought was, okay,

758
00:39:48.039 --> 00:39:49.920
<v Speaker 2>so he's in this garbage can. The man says he

759
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:54.199
<v Speaker 2>sees people get in these garbage bins frequently and then

760
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:55.119
<v Speaker 2>pop out.

761
00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:56.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, that was my thought.

762
00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:58.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, then maybe Jack is digging through there or trying

763
00:39:58.440 --> 00:39:59.119
<v Speaker 2>to stay warm.

764
00:39:59.320 --> 00:39:59.800
<v Speaker 1>But then, like you.

765
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:02.079
<v Speaker 2>Said, someone could have just disposed of his body there

766
00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:05.280
<v Speaker 2>after a violent attack. And the thing that complicates it

767
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:07.480
<v Speaker 2>is that when that trash is then dumped and taken

768
00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:10.679
<v Speaker 2>down to the landfill, there are other mechanisms in place

769
00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:13.880
<v Speaker 2>that could have injured his physical body after the fact

770
00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:16.880
<v Speaker 2>that he was in that bind. So was he injured

771
00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:19.519
<v Speaker 2>before going into it? Were the injuries a result of

772
00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:22.559
<v Speaker 2>that transportation and processing of the trash.

773
00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:23.639
<v Speaker 1>We just don't know.

774
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:28.400
<v Speaker 2>And because of his mental health crisis, both are equally probable.

775
00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:31.519
<v Speaker 2>The fact that this man, who's accomplished and a hard

776
00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:34.960
<v Speaker 2>worker and a family man could be stumbling around a

777
00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:38.559
<v Speaker 2>city unaware of what reality is and going through the

778
00:40:38.599 --> 00:40:41.519
<v Speaker 2>dumpster for food, for warmth, for whatever he was looking

779
00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:45.000
<v Speaker 2>for and then gets crushed or he dies in there.

780
00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:49.000
<v Speaker 2>Something like that is possible. Being attacked because of that

781
00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:52.920
<v Speaker 2>mental health crisis is also possible, So there's zero way

782
00:40:53.639 --> 00:40:57.880
<v Speaker 2>I feel like you could distinguish injuries unless someone was

783
00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:00.440
<v Speaker 2>to come forward, and there's a chance of nobody that

784
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:03.320
<v Speaker 2>needs to come forward because you just didn't have a perpetrator.

785
00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:06.719
<v Speaker 2>It's it would be horrifying as a family to want

786
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:09.159
<v Speaker 2>to believe that I can get answers in this case

787
00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:13.880
<v Speaker 2>and realizing that there's so many circumstances and possibilities here

788
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:16.880
<v Speaker 2>where very few of them result in an actual answer

789
00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:17.559
<v Speaker 2>for the family.

790
00:41:18.679 --> 00:41:21.599
<v Speaker 3>Robin, do you know if the medical examiner ever got

791
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:25.880
<v Speaker 3>a chance to review or revise their findings after Jack

792
00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:28.840
<v Speaker 3>was found in the landfill and they knew that his

793
00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:30.559
<v Speaker 3>DNA was found in the garbage can.

794
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:33.760
<v Speaker 1>That's a good question. I haven't seen anything to indicate

795
00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:36.920
<v Speaker 1>that the medical examiner looked at his body again. I

796
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:39.840
<v Speaker 1>do know that investigators have been very tight lipped this

797
00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:42.639
<v Speaker 1>past decade about releasing information to the public, So it

798
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:45.880
<v Speaker 1>is possible he got another autopsy but we just didn't

799
00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:48.119
<v Speaker 1>know about it. But like that would be a good

800
00:41:48.119 --> 00:41:50.760
<v Speaker 1>point because if he's unaware that Jack has been in

801
00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:54.280
<v Speaker 1>a garbage bin, he may be misinterpreting the injuries and

802
00:41:54.559 --> 00:41:57.079
<v Speaker 1>may just look at things differently now that he starts

803
00:41:57.119 --> 00:41:59.360
<v Speaker 1>looking at the possibility that he was crushed by a

804
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:02.880
<v Speaker 1>trash compact. So this story is something a reversal of

805
00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:06.039
<v Speaker 1>many the unexplained deaths which have been featured on UNSAWD Mysteries.

806
00:42:06.519 --> 00:42:09.000
<v Speaker 1>The show has featured a number of cases where someone's

807
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:11.320
<v Speaker 1>death was ruled to be a suicide or an accident,

808
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:14.480
<v Speaker 1>prompting law enforcement to close the case, but the loved

809
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:17.000
<v Speaker 1>ones believe they were the victim of foul play. But

810
00:42:17.159 --> 00:42:19.920
<v Speaker 1>judging from the reactions I've seen from online sluice on

811
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:23.039
<v Speaker 1>various message boards and read it, it seems like the

812
00:42:23.079 --> 00:42:26.599
<v Speaker 1>majority consensus from those who watch the UNSAWD Mysteries episode

813
00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:29.960
<v Speaker 1>is that Jack Wheeler's death was a tragic accident, even

814
00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:33.039
<v Speaker 1>though it was officially classified as a homicide and most

815
00:42:33.079 --> 00:42:35.599
<v Speaker 1>of the media coverage of this case has described as

816
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:39.039
<v Speaker 1>death as a murder. Hell, the UNSAWD Mysteries episode is

817
00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:43.599
<v Speaker 1>literally titled Washington Insider Murder. This is definitely not part

818
00:42:43.639 --> 00:42:46.320
<v Speaker 1>for the course when you're talking about online sluice, who

819
00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:49.559
<v Speaker 1>will often gravitate towards theories involving foul play, even if

820
00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:53.920
<v Speaker 1>the evidence strongly points towards suicide. Or accidental death. I

821
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.239
<v Speaker 1>mentioned in the intro that before I saw the Unsolved

822
00:42:56.239 --> 00:42:59.320
<v Speaker 1>Mysteries episode, my limited knowledge of the case gave me

823
00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:02.920
<v Speaker 1>the impression that this was universally considered to be a homicide,

824
00:43:03.239 --> 00:43:06.519
<v Speaker 1>and given Jack's previous ties to the US government, you'll

825
00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:09.079
<v Speaker 1>definitely find a lot of discussion about his death on

826
00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:12.639
<v Speaker 1>conspiracy message boards. But I do wonder if the reaction

827
00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:15.159
<v Speaker 1>of this case might be driven by a growing cynicism

828
00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:18.719
<v Speaker 1>which is developed within the true crime community towards Unsolved

829
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:22.320
<v Speaker 1>Mysteries and true crime shows in general, which can sometimes

830
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:25.280
<v Speaker 1>manipulate the facts and leave out key pieces of information

831
00:43:25.639 --> 00:43:28.920
<v Speaker 1>in order to suit their narrative. Back when Unsolved Mysteries

832
00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:31.760
<v Speaker 1>first launched during the nineteen eighties, there was no Internet

833
00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:34.360
<v Speaker 1>and it was more difficult to fact check the information

834
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:36.960
<v Speaker 1>they shared, so you pretty much took their segments at

835
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:40.519
<v Speaker 1>face value. But these days, it's so much easier to

836
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:43.320
<v Speaker 1>do additional research and find out if a true crime

837
00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:46.840
<v Speaker 1>show is distorting the facts. We've already talked about this

838
00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:49.480
<v Speaker 1>in great detail during our episodes about the death of

839
00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:52.800
<v Speaker 1>Ray Rivera. As you probably know, it was featured on

840
00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:55.760
<v Speaker 1>the debut episode of the first season of the Unsolved

841
00:43:55.760 --> 00:43:59.119
<v Speaker 1>Mysteries reboot, which dropped on Netflix on July the first,

842
00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:03.119
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty. Ray Rivera was seemingly killed after a fall

843
00:44:03.159 --> 00:44:06.199
<v Speaker 1>from the roof of the Belvidere Hotel in Baltimore, Maryland,

844
00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:08.880
<v Speaker 1>but even though the authorities ruled Ray's death to be

845
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:11.440
<v Speaker 1>a suicide, his loved ones were convinced that he was

846
00:44:11.480 --> 00:44:14.559
<v Speaker 1>the victim of foul play. Well, I will admit that

847
00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:17.559
<v Speaker 1>I was absolutely captivated by that episode when I originally

848
00:44:17.599 --> 00:44:20.239
<v Speaker 1>saw it and had no idea what to think, but

849
00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:22.920
<v Speaker 1>it soon became a parent that Unsaw Mysteries left out

850
00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:25.599
<v Speaker 1>a lot of information about this story, which may have

851
00:44:25.639 --> 00:44:28.599
<v Speaker 1>pointed towards Ray suffering from some sort of mental health

852
00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:31.679
<v Speaker 1>crisis and jumping off the roof on his own. Once

853
00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:33.960
<v Speaker 1>you looked at the big picture, none of the murder

854
00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:38.119
<v Speaker 1>conspiracy theories surrounding this case. Surrounding this case made much sense.

855
00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:41.519
<v Speaker 1>So by the time Unsaw Mysteries dropped their second season

856
00:44:41.519 --> 00:44:45.360
<v Speaker 1>in October of twenty twenty, I think the controversy surrounding

857
00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:48.480
<v Speaker 1>their presentation of Ray Rivera's death had caused a lot

858
00:44:48.519 --> 00:44:52.519
<v Speaker 1>of skepticism to develop about their presentation on Jack Wheeler's

859
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:54.199
<v Speaker 1>death I.

860
00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:57.079
<v Speaker 2>Remember when you guys started describing the Ray rivera case.

861
00:44:57.119 --> 00:44:59.480
<v Speaker 2>To me, I was like, Oh, it is a murder.

862
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:03.039
<v Speaker 2>It is definitely a murder. I was very much in

863
00:45:03.039 --> 00:45:05.559
<v Speaker 2>that camp because of the way Unsolved Mysteries presented it,

864
00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:09.679
<v Speaker 2>and it really was this crafted story to cause a

865
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:13.000
<v Speaker 2>question mark if nothing else, right Whereas when we went

866
00:45:13.039 --> 00:45:17.079
<v Speaker 2>through the evidence that is actually known, it very much

867
00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:21.360
<v Speaker 2>pointed to mental health episodes going on in Ray's life,

868
00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:26.840
<v Speaker 2>and paranoia and fear and bizarre behaviors. So none of

869
00:45:26.840 --> 00:45:30.400
<v Speaker 2>that was really described in that episode. So I can

870
00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:35.000
<v Speaker 2>completely understand, and skeptics aren't wrong that when the media

871
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:37.679
<v Speaker 2>takes hold of a story, they're telling a story that's

872
00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:39.440
<v Speaker 2>going to get them the most ratings and to get

873
00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:43.320
<v Speaker 2>the most attention, the most jaws dropping at the case.

874
00:45:43.719 --> 00:45:46.920
<v Speaker 2>And so you got to be your own little sleuth

875
00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:49.559
<v Speaker 2>and kind of look back and say, Okay, who are

876
00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:52.880
<v Speaker 2>they presenting this to, what's their goal and are they

877
00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:55.280
<v Speaker 2>telling us the whole story? And oftentimes the answer is no,

878
00:45:55.719 --> 00:45:58.679
<v Speaker 2>just because of time limits and because of the audience

879
00:45:58.719 --> 00:46:00.760
<v Speaker 2>and the goal that they have for that show. So

880
00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:04.719
<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of that skepticism is valid I too.

881
00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:07.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean when I watched the Ray Rivera case. I

882
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:09.000
<v Speaker 2>was pretty convinced. So then when you go and you

883
00:46:09.079 --> 00:46:12.320
<v Speaker 2>start talking about Jacks, it makes you want to question, well,

884
00:46:12.360 --> 00:46:14.960
<v Speaker 2>how much of this is one side of the story

885
00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:16.079
<v Speaker 2>versus the whole picture.

886
00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:19.320
<v Speaker 3>I think when you look back in time too, like

887
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:22.760
<v Speaker 3>when we covered Ray Rivera's case, I feel like we

888
00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:26.039
<v Speaker 3>as like a true crime collective. We're just on the

889
00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:31.440
<v Speaker 3>precipice of kind of understanding that intersectionality between mental health

890
00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:36.679
<v Speaker 3>and criminals as well as victims of crime, and understanding

891
00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:41.239
<v Speaker 3>that situations it can seem very very mysterious. There can

892
00:46:41.320 --> 00:46:44.400
<v Speaker 3>be an underlying mental health issue that can motivate somebody

893
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:46.800
<v Speaker 3>to act very much outside of themselves, and it can

894
00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:50.800
<v Speaker 3>leave a family devastated and with more questions than answers

895
00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:54.639
<v Speaker 3>and very very convinced that this person didn't do this

896
00:46:54.679 --> 00:46:57.159
<v Speaker 3>to themselves. So I think we've got a much greater

897
00:46:57.280 --> 00:47:00.360
<v Speaker 3>understanding now, even though that was just a few years ago,

898
00:47:00.679 --> 00:47:03.159
<v Speaker 3>it feels like we've come leaps and bounds, doesn't it,

899
00:47:03.719 --> 00:47:04.400
<v Speaker 3>Oh very much?

900
00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:07.000
<v Speaker 1>So I think so, Yeah, I think there was more

901
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:10.760
<v Speaker 1>of an understanding now that sometimes people just do inexplicable

902
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:13.119
<v Speaker 1>things and that will cause their death. But it doesn't

903
00:47:13.159 --> 00:47:16.199
<v Speaker 1>necessarily mean that there was a conspiracy or foul play.

904
00:47:17.559 --> 00:47:19.559
<v Speaker 2>And you look at the true crime community too, of

905
00:47:20.119 --> 00:47:23.719
<v Speaker 2>viewers who want to consume that kind of information. And

906
00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:28.000
<v Speaker 2>I remember the murder at the Cecil Hotel, right, that documentary.

907
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:28.400
<v Speaker 3>At least a Lamb.

908
00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:31.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that Lisa Lamb. It was a mental health crisis.

909
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:34.719
<v Speaker 2>But I remember reading reviews of it and people are like, oh,

910
00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:37.119
<v Speaker 2>it's not what I thought. It's not that good, you know,

911
00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:40.519
<v Speaker 2>and it was fascinating, but because it was a mental

912
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:43.039
<v Speaker 2>health crisis, it takes it out of that. You know,

913
00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:46.159
<v Speaker 2>true crime vein in many ways, and so people who

914
00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:50.159
<v Speaker 2>are drawn to that, they want to see those mysterious,

915
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:53.599
<v Speaker 2>big old question marks, what happened? Conspiracy theories. They like that,

916
00:47:54.119 --> 00:47:57.119
<v Speaker 2>and so when people are producing segments, I feel like

917
00:47:57.280 --> 00:47:59.599
<v Speaker 2>they are catering to what gets us the best ratings,

918
00:47:59.599 --> 00:48:03.599
<v Speaker 2>not necessar gets the best and most accurate story out there.

919
00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:09.119
<v Speaker 3>From a production standpoint, the Washington Insider murder episode is

920
00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:11.320
<v Speaker 3>very well done, and if you watch it for the

921
00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:14.639
<v Speaker 3>first time without much prior knowledge to the case, watching

922
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:18.679
<v Speaker 3>the events unfold is pretty compelling. But once the episode

923
00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:21.440
<v Speaker 3>ends and you start thinking about some of the possible

924
00:48:21.519 --> 00:48:24.800
<v Speaker 3>murder conspiracies, they just don't make any sense at all.

925
00:48:25.480 --> 00:48:28.159
<v Speaker 3>A lot of the mysteries surrounding this story fades away

926
00:48:28.440 --> 00:48:31.840
<v Speaker 3>and it becomes obvious that Jack's strange actions were the

927
00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:35.280
<v Speaker 3>result of his own mental health crisis. The mental health

928
00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:38.159
<v Speaker 3>angle in the Ray Rivera case is based on speculation

929
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:41.920
<v Speaker 3>because he was never officially diagnosed with anything, but we

930
00:48:42.119 --> 00:48:45.559
<v Speaker 3>do know that Jack had lifelong struggles with bipolar disorder,

931
00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:49.000
<v Speaker 3>and to be fair, unsolved mysteries does not shy away

932
00:48:49.039 --> 00:48:52.800
<v Speaker 3>from this. While Jack took medication to control his condition,

933
00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:56.480
<v Speaker 3>one fact about the case which has never been conclusively

934
00:48:56.599 --> 00:48:59.519
<v Speaker 3>established is the last time that he took his meds

935
00:48:59.559 --> 00:49:02.519
<v Speaker 3>before he died. But if he'd been off them for

936
00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:05.559
<v Speaker 3>an extended period of time, that would go a long

937
00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:08.760
<v Speaker 3>way towards explaining his actions during the last few days

938
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:11.280
<v Speaker 3>of his life, which seemed to indicate that he was

939
00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:15.519
<v Speaker 3>having a manic episode. Jack's condition could sometimes make him

940
00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:19.440
<v Speaker 3>very energetic and aggressive about issues he was passionate about,

941
00:49:20.039 --> 00:49:22.599
<v Speaker 3>and a short time before his death, a moderator at

942
00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:25.719
<v Speaker 3>a West Point message board Jack liked to frequent had

943
00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:28.320
<v Speaker 3>to suspend him and give him a time out because

944
00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:32.360
<v Speaker 3>he was becoming very temperamental during his postings. Jack had

945
00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:35.880
<v Speaker 3>obviously had become quite obsessed about preventing instruction of the

946
00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:39.039
<v Speaker 3>house across the street from his residence at Newcastle, and

947
00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:41.800
<v Speaker 3>his neighbor Robert Dill, claimed that he sometimes had to

948
00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:45.159
<v Speaker 3>cut off Jack from going on angry rants, and he

949
00:49:45.199 --> 00:49:49.199
<v Speaker 3>was once chastised by Jack for not being angry enough

950
00:49:49.239 --> 00:49:53.320
<v Speaker 3>about the situation. Jack struggles with depression also took a

951
00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:56.960
<v Speaker 3>toll on him, and his wife Catherine once stated quote,

952
00:49:57.199 --> 00:49:59.239
<v Speaker 3>I don't like to say it, but I think Jack

953
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:02.599
<v Speaker 3>hated himself. He tried to do good all day so

954
00:50:02.639 --> 00:50:04.920
<v Speaker 3>he could sleep at night. Then he'd wake up in

955
00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:07.880
<v Speaker 3>the morning and that self hatred would be there waiting

956
00:50:07.880 --> 00:50:12.360
<v Speaker 3>for him end quote. According to Jack's family, he also

957
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:14.920
<v Speaker 3>had a terrible sense of direction and was a type

958
00:50:14.920 --> 00:50:17.239
<v Speaker 3>of person who would park his car somewhere and then

959
00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:20.159
<v Speaker 3>take a taxi cab home, either because he couldn't fight

960
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:23.679
<v Speaker 3>his vehicle or had completely forgotten where he parked. This

961
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:26.400
<v Speaker 3>fits in with a situation where Jack struggled to find

962
00:50:26.440 --> 00:50:29.880
<v Speaker 3>his car inside the parking garage in Wilmington, even though

963
00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:32.440
<v Speaker 3>he had parked it in a completely different garage one

964
00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:35.360
<v Speaker 3>week earlier, and I'm sure the whole thing was exacerbated

965
00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:37.440
<v Speaker 3>if he was suffering through a manic episode.

966
00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:40.239
<v Speaker 2>So the most heartbreaking thing you just read to me

967
00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:43.039
<v Speaker 2>was the way his best friend and the person who

968
00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:47.360
<v Speaker 2>knew him most. His wife describes the demons that haunted

969
00:50:47.400 --> 00:50:50.840
<v Speaker 2>her husband. She knew him inside and out, and to

970
00:50:51.079 --> 00:50:54.480
<v Speaker 2>be able to articulate that, look at his career, look

971
00:50:54.519 --> 00:50:58.079
<v Speaker 2>at all of the things that he's sacrificed and fought

972
00:50:58.159 --> 00:51:03.719
<v Speaker 2>for and worked for. People he's protected, organizations he's supported,

973
00:51:03.760 --> 00:51:07.599
<v Speaker 2>like mothers against drunk driving. You can tell he's a humanitarian,

974
00:51:07.639 --> 00:51:10.400
<v Speaker 2>that he wants other people not to hurt or struggle,

975
00:51:11.360 --> 00:51:15.559
<v Speaker 2>and it's because he was hurting and struggling. His wife says,

976
00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:19.440
<v Speaker 2>I think Jack hated himself. He tried to do good

977
00:51:19.519 --> 00:51:21.760
<v Speaker 2>all day so that he could sleep at night, and

978
00:51:21.800 --> 00:51:24.480
<v Speaker 2>then he'd wake up in the morning and the self

979
00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:27.880
<v Speaker 2>hatred would be there waiting for him, like a repetitive

980
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:31.960
<v Speaker 2>cycle of that darkness that she watched her husband battle.

981
00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:36.840
<v Speaker 2>To me, that is so heartbreaking as someone who loves

982
00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:40.920
<v Speaker 2>their family and yet can't seem to find any kind

983
00:51:40.960 --> 00:51:43.679
<v Speaker 2>of peace or way out of the darkness he feels.

984
00:51:44.039 --> 00:51:46.960
<v Speaker 2>The medication clearly helped. I mean Jack was in.

985
00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:49.039
<v Speaker 1>His sixties, right, yeah, sixty six.

986
00:51:49.880 --> 00:51:52.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so Jack's in his sixties. He's clearly had to

987
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:55.039
<v Speaker 2>deal with this his whole life. It's probably gotten exacerbated

988
00:51:55.039 --> 00:51:58.119
<v Speaker 2>by different things. But he's even at the pharmacy trying

989
00:51:58.159 --> 00:52:00.800
<v Speaker 2>to get his medicine refilled, isn't he at some point?

990
00:52:01.039 --> 00:52:04.119
<v Speaker 1>Not really, No, even though he frequented that pharmacy quite

991
00:52:04.119 --> 00:52:06.360
<v Speaker 1>a bit to get his medicine, on that particular visit,

992
00:52:06.400 --> 00:52:08.360
<v Speaker 1>he was just looking for a ride, like he wasn't

993
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:11.159
<v Speaker 1>even the okay, So maybe that's why he went in there,

994
00:52:11.199 --> 00:52:13.480
<v Speaker 1>Like maybe he recognized this place, this is a place

995
00:52:13.480 --> 00:52:15.480
<v Speaker 1>I get my medicine, So that might be why he

996
00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:17.639
<v Speaker 1>asked for a ride at that particular location.

997
00:52:18.679 --> 00:52:20.440
<v Speaker 2>So in my head, I was thinking, maybe he's at

998
00:52:20.440 --> 00:52:23.239
<v Speaker 2>the pharmacy to get this refill for his medication. But

999
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:25.400
<v Speaker 2>like you said, there's really nobody to know when the

1000
00:52:25.480 --> 00:52:28.400
<v Speaker 2>last time he took it would have been. It sounds

1001
00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:31.960
<v Speaker 2>like with his daughter through email and things, there wasn't

1002
00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:34.599
<v Speaker 2>anything that alarmed her, right, he said he's kind of

1003
00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:37.320
<v Speaker 2>a little bit off kiltered with after fussing with Catherine,

1004
00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:41.519
<v Speaker 2>but he is communicating and then that stops, and it

1005
00:52:41.599 --> 00:52:43.760
<v Speaker 2>seems like that's one of those mornings he woke up

1006
00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:46.599
<v Speaker 2>and he couldn't fight the demons anymore. Maybe he didn't

1007
00:52:46.599 --> 00:52:49.559
<v Speaker 2>have his medication. Maybe he lost all of the things

1008
00:52:49.559 --> 00:52:52.039
<v Speaker 2>that he said had gotten stolen or robbed away from him.

1009
00:52:52.280 --> 00:52:54.360
<v Speaker 2>But his medication could have been in that as well,

1010
00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:56.920
<v Speaker 2>and so if he had lost or misplaced it.

1011
00:52:57.480 --> 00:52:58.639
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it takes.

1012
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:02.719
<v Speaker 2>Very long to come off of mental health medication to

1013
00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:07.679
<v Speaker 2>struggle with a severe episode, especially if you have significant

1014
00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:13.880
<v Speaker 2>swings in your disposition. So I think it's devastating to

1015
00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:17.119
<v Speaker 2>look at Catherine's perspective of her husband, because when you

1016
00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:20.440
<v Speaker 2>hear that, everything seems to fall into place where you

1017
00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:22.840
<v Speaker 2>see all the things he did to try to fight

1018
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:25.840
<v Speaker 2>the darkness, and it sounds like the darkness in some

1019
00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:28.599
<v Speaker 2>way ended up consuming him at the very end.

1020
00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:33.320
<v Speaker 3>That's definitely true about psychotropic medications. If you are to

1021
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:35.719
<v Speaker 3>go cold turkey off of them, it should be done

1022
00:53:35.960 --> 00:53:39.719
<v Speaker 3>under the supervision of a doctor. If somebody just stops

1023
00:53:39.760 --> 00:53:46.079
<v Speaker 3>taking their medication, especially first line bipolar intervention treatments like lithium,

1024
00:53:46.599 --> 00:53:49.199
<v Speaker 3>it can trigger a manic episode if you just all

1025
00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:52.159
<v Speaker 3>of a sudden go off lithium. I've seen it happen.

1026
00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:57.199
<v Speaker 3>It's a really messy and very very dangerous thing that

1027
00:53:57.239 --> 00:54:00.400
<v Speaker 3>can land somebody into a psych word. And if somebody

1028
00:54:00.440 --> 00:54:05.039
<v Speaker 3>isn't recognizing this behavior in Jack and he isn't getting

1029
00:54:05.199 --> 00:54:08.800
<v Speaker 3>whatever like a fifty one fifty would be in Washington

1030
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:12.440
<v Speaker 3>or in Wilmington, that's something that he clearly needed at

1031
00:54:12.440 --> 00:54:15.079
<v Speaker 3>that time to have somebody assess his mental state because

1032
00:54:15.119 --> 00:54:17.800
<v Speaker 3>it seems like he was a danger to himself. But

1033
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:21.280
<v Speaker 3>it's just unfortunate because Catherine didn't seem to have access

1034
00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:23.920
<v Speaker 3>to him, because he wasn't answering his phone. He didn't

1035
00:54:23.960 --> 00:54:26.880
<v Speaker 3>have his phone, So all of those people that would

1036
00:54:26.920 --> 00:54:29.119
<v Speaker 3>have been the ones that would go, okay, we need

1037
00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:34.199
<v Speaker 3>to intervene, they're not able to make contact with Jack exactly.

1038
00:54:34.280 --> 00:54:36.599
<v Speaker 1>And I think he was just feeling completely helpless and

1039
00:54:36.639 --> 00:54:39.280
<v Speaker 1>disoriented and didn't know what he was doing. And we

1040
00:54:39.360 --> 00:54:42.039
<v Speaker 1>also don't know where and if he was sleeping during

1041
00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:44.079
<v Speaker 1>the last few days of his life, So I can

1042
00:54:44.079 --> 00:54:46.280
<v Speaker 1>only imagine that if he fell asleep, say in some

1043
00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:49.360
<v Speaker 1>underground storage room or something, and then woke up, he

1044
00:54:49.440 --> 00:54:51.480
<v Speaker 1>must have been like feeling like he was in a

1045
00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:54.039
<v Speaker 1>really dark place and like perhaps even forgetting who he

1046
00:54:54.079 --> 00:54:57.800
<v Speaker 1>really was. So I think this would be a good

1047
00:54:57.800 --> 00:55:00.480
<v Speaker 1>time to bring it into part one. But speak as

1048
00:55:00.559 --> 00:55:03.159
<v Speaker 1>we present part two of our series about the unexplained

1049
00:55:03.199 --> 00:55:04.360
<v Speaker 1>death of Jack Wheeler.

1050
00:55:05.559 --> 00:55:07.000
<v Speaker 3>Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit

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00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:08.519
<v Speaker 3>about the Trail Went Cold Patreon?

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00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:11.639
<v Speaker 1>Yes. The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three

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00:55:11.679 --> 00:55:15.440
<v Speaker 1>years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like

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00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:18.920
<v Speaker 1>early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers

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00:55:18.960 --> 00:55:21.800
<v Speaker 1>and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up

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00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:24.360
<v Speaker 1>with us on Patreon. If you join our five dollars

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00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:28.519
<v Speaker 1>tier tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in

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00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:31.679
<v Speaker 1>which I talk about cases which are not featured on

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00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:35.039
<v Speaker 1>the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon,

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00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:37.840
<v Speaker 1>and if you join our highest tier tier three, the

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00:55:37.880 --> 00:55:40.840
<v Speaker 1>ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer is

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00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:45.199
<v Speaker 1>a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsolved Mysteries,

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00:55:45.440 --> 00:55:48.400
<v Speaker 1>where you can download an audio file and then boot

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00:55:48.480 --> 00:55:51.679
<v Speaker 1>up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or

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00:55:51.719 --> 00:55:55.119
<v Speaker 1>YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in

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00:55:55.119 --> 00:55:58.239
<v Speaker 1>the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about

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00:55:58.239 --> 00:56:01.719
<v Speaker 1>the cases featured in this episode and Incidentally, the very

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00:56:01.719 --> 00:56:04.559
<v Speaker 1>first episode that I did a commentary track over was

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00:56:04.599 --> 00:56:07.360
<v Speaker 1>the episode featuring this case. So if you want to

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00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:10.119
<v Speaker 1>download a commentary track in which I make more smart

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00:56:10.159 --> 00:56:13.159
<v Speaker 1>ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join

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00:56:13.239 --> 00:56:13.960
<v Speaker 1>Tier three.

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00:56:14.159 --> 00:56:15.679
<v Speaker 4>So I want to let you know a little bit

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00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:18.679
<v Speaker 4>about the Jeweles and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad

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00:56:18.679 --> 00:56:21.599
<v Speaker 4>free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our

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00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:24.599
<v Speaker 4>Pathwent Chili mini's, which are always over an hour, so

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00:56:24.639 --> 00:56:26.760
<v Speaker 4>they're not very mini, but they're just too short to

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00:56:26.800 --> 00:56:29.719
<v Speaker 4>turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those.

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00:56:29.800 --> 00:56:32.320
<v Speaker 3>So we hope you'll check out those patreons. We'll link

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00:56:32.360 --> 00:56:33.440
<v Speaker 3>them in the show notes.

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00:56:33.960 --> 00:56:35.840
<v Speaker 1>So I want to thank you all for listening, and

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00:56:35.960 --> 00:56:38.320
<v Speaker 1>any chance you have to share us on social media

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00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:41.360
<v Speaker 1>with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciated.

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00:56:41.519 --> 00:56:44.559
<v Speaker 1>You can email us at The Pathwentchili at gmail dot com.

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00:56:44.840 --> 00:56:47.480
<v Speaker 1>You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwin. So

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00:56:47.559 --> 00:56:50.199
<v Speaker 1>until next time, be sure to bundle up because cold

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00:56:50.239 --> 00:56:52.679
<v Speaker 1>trails and chili pass call for warm clothing.

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<v Speaker 3>Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy
