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Speaker 3: You are now listening to True Murder, The most Shocking
Speaker 3: Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have
Speaker 3: written about them Gaesy Bundy Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every
Speaker 3: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 3: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 3: journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Speaker 5: Good Evening. This is your host Dan Zupanski for the
Speaker 5: program True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True crime
Speaker 5: History and the authors that have written about them. A
Speaker 5: beautiful young American woman was kidnapped and confined against their
Speaker 5: will in the putrid depths of Tijuana, Mexico. Drugged and tortured,
Speaker 5: she lived in constant fear for her life. Kidnapped, kidnapped
Speaker 5: by the cartel opens the doors into the secret covens
Speaker 5: of a Mexican organized crime, a terrifying place where many
Speaker 5: are lost forever. Slimy backstreets of Tijuana are graphically revealed
Speaker 5: as the disgusting, gruesome, and violent places they are known
Speaker 5: to be. The US State Department has warned against non
Speaker 5: essential travel along the United States Mexico border, especially in
Speaker 5: the violent cities of Cluad, Juarez and Tijuana. This novel
Speaker 5: gives a taste of what goes on behind the fence. Kidnap.
Speaker 5: The book we're featuring this evening is Kidnapped by the Cartel.
Speaker 5: This is a novel inspired by a true story with
Speaker 5: my special guest author, Karen Sciosia. Welcome to the program,
Speaker 5: and thank you for agreeing to this interview. Karen Scusia,
Speaker 5: thank you so much.
Speaker 6: It's Shosha. But it's a difficult name to pronounce.
Speaker 3: You know what.
Speaker 5: That's what I should have I should have done that
Speaker 5: before in the few seconds that we had before we
Speaker 5: went on the program. So say your last name again
Speaker 5: for me, please, Shosha, Shosha. Okay, that's a lot easier. Ah,
Speaker 5: that's easy. Okay, thank you.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 5: One of the questions I used to ask a lot
Speaker 5: of the authors, and I haven't asked it in a
Speaker 5: little while because it seemed maybe a little too obvious,
Speaker 5: but I think it's appropriate here. Why did you want
Speaker 5: to write? Why were you compelled to write? And kidnapped
Speaker 5: by the cartel?
Speaker 6: When this I call it the incident, even though that's
Speaker 6: not a strong enough word probably, but when this incident
Speaker 6: happened in our family. It was just such an amazing
Speaker 6: thing and we could hardly believe it. And I found
Speaker 6: out that it was not an isolated incident. These things
Speaker 6: were happening. So the book was written initially as a
Speaker 6: cautionary tale, but then it has developed an audience kind
Speaker 6: of twofold. One as a cautionary tale, and then two
Speaker 6: for people who like to read about well crime, true crime,
Speaker 6: fictional crime, just crime stories like CSI shows the movie
Speaker 6: take and things like that. There's a whole audience for
Speaker 6: this type of story. And then, like I said, there's
Speaker 6: the cautionary tale for what has happened here and does
Speaker 6: happen continuously.
Speaker 5: Actually, now, as you know, and we were in we've
Speaker 5: had conversations that this is strictly a nonfiction program where
Speaker 5: we talk about nonfiction books. But I made the exception
Speaker 5: in this case because of our friend Kathy Scott highly
Speaker 5: recommended this story, and that obviously when you say it's
Speaker 5: inspired by a true story and you talk about the incident,
Speaker 5: now tell us about some of the research that you
Speaker 5: did do in order to be able to write this
Speaker 5: book and give it as much authenticity as possible. Other
Speaker 5: than of course, the relation in your family to the
Speaker 5: subject of the book, whose name in the book is Amanda.
Speaker 5: But tell us about the independent research you did about
Speaker 5: organized crime in Mexico that you did in order to
Speaker 5: write this book.
Speaker 6: Okay, Well, I was involved actually in this incident personally.
Speaker 6: My family member was kidnapped in Tijuana and I live
Speaker 6: in North Carolina. So after a few days, I actually
Speaker 6: flew out to help. After five days, and this person
Speaker 6: was missing eleven so after five days I flew out
Speaker 6: to get involved in the search. So I learned firsthand
Speaker 6: many things. But then after when I was doing research
Speaker 6: and found out that this was not an isolated incident,
Speaker 6: that these things were happening, I went to the police
Speaker 6: again in San Diego to talk more on an intelligent
Speaker 6: level and not on such a desperate level, because this
Speaker 6: situation had been was over for us, not over for
Speaker 6: other people though, And I went to detoc centers and
Speaker 6: the hospitals, and I went back into Mexico several times,
Speaker 6: talked to policia and a lot of different people, even
Speaker 6: though you really don't know how to discern who you
Speaker 6: can trust too well. There and then the pharmacias. I
Speaker 6: went into those pharmacias and The thing about the pharmacias
Speaker 6: there is that people can go in and by practically
Speaker 6: any drug you need a prescription for without a description.
Speaker 6: So you go into the border cities particularly, and you'll
Speaker 6: find a lot of Americans and other tourists buying different things.
Speaker 6: People will be buying, say retine for their face, which
Speaker 6: is a prescription, steroids, shots bodybuilders, oxycon for people that
Speaker 6: are invicting, for people who are hooked. So those are
Speaker 6: just a couple of examples that you see on a
Speaker 6: daily basis.
Speaker 5: Now, this, would you be able to write a non
Speaker 5: knowing that everything you know now and being so intimately involved,
Speaker 5: would you be able to write a non fiction tell
Speaker 5: all book about the like you talk about the pharmacies
Speaker 5: where everything is available and organized crime itself, human trafficking, prostitution,
Speaker 5: illegal immigrants smuggling into the US, drug running, and every
Speaker 5: thing that goes along with that. And many people know
Speaker 5: about the ruthlessness of Mexican gangs and their reputation and
Speaker 5: shock value of some of the things that they're willing
Speaker 5: to do to maintain their power. Would you be able
Speaker 5: to write a nonfiction book about this?
Speaker 6: Yes? And I would have to say that in this
Speaker 6: book those areas are pretty much nonfiction in this book.
Speaker 6: What is been what has been fictionalized is I wanted
Speaker 6: to protect my family member, and coupled with what I
Speaker 6: learned about other people's situations, other people that had been
Speaker 6: kidnapped didn't make it back, things like that that I
Speaker 6: learned from private investigators. So I created a character. I
Speaker 6: created this character of Amanda and put several stories into her.
Speaker 6: Those stories are true for somebody. They're all true for somebody,
Speaker 6: and not necessarily all true for her, but they are
Speaker 6: true happening. So these things do happen now. I talked
Speaker 6: to other authors. I did a lot of research. I
Speaker 6: did with a lot of research in Mexican newspapers and
Speaker 6: in Time magazine and just a lot of different author
Speaker 6: people that wrote about this. And in fact I talked
Speaker 6: to an author who lives in California but under the
Speaker 6: assumed name now because the cartel was not happy with
Speaker 6: some of the things he wrote and he used totally
Speaker 6: the truth, totally name all the correct names and everything,
Speaker 6: and now there's a hit out for him. I was
Speaker 6: able to talk to him through our publishers kind of
Speaker 6: got together and went to him, and then he called
Speaker 6: me which was really nice of him to do, trusting
Speaker 6: although I'm quite a trustworthy person, but nonetheless, and he
Speaker 6: gave me a lot of information, and I looked up
Speaker 6: a lot of things, so I was able to accurately
Speaker 6: talk about a lot in the book from what I learned,
Speaker 6: not only what I learned firsthand, but what I learned
Speaker 6: post to the event.
Speaker 5: Okay, well, that's great, and I know we've got that
Speaker 5: established that this is a very truly terrifying nonfiction tale.
Speaker 5: And you've established primarily what it is primarily nonfiction, but
Speaker 5: the lead character, Amanda, in her experiences in your book,
Speaker 5: you've kind of put in some of the other people
Speaker 5: that would be captive by this cartel those experiences and
Speaker 5: those experiences being true. So let's get to the story,
Speaker 5: because this is a fascinating the way you've go unfolded this.
Speaker 5: You're going back and forth. We're traveling from affluence and
Speaker 5: then in America and then in Mexico, a completely different world,
Speaker 5: and you've brought the reader into that world. Tell us about,
Speaker 5: as you mentioned before, the incident. Tell us a little
Speaker 5: bit of background about Amanda, and then what happened to
Speaker 5: Amanda and how this story began.
Speaker 6: Amanda was a performer and had actually hurt herself. She
Speaker 6: had a physical injury which she was prescribed vic it
Speaker 6: in for and she became addicted to vic it in,
Speaker 6: which happened sometimes legitimately through different physical ailments or something
Speaker 6: that's a problem in the United States actually, and so
Speaker 6: it was where she was having headaches with it. Without it,
Speaker 6: you had to have more. She had been to a
Speaker 6: couple of rehabs and that just wasn't really working. And
Speaker 6: what she learned in rehab was you could go to
Speaker 6: Mexico and get these drugs. Just get them. Now, having
Speaker 6: grown up in San Diego, this character was very familiar
Speaker 6: with crossing the border. A lot of people would do it.
Speaker 6: They would go to Insanitas and Rosarita Beach for sheep,
Speaker 6: lobsters and things like this. I've talked to many people
Speaker 6: that have done that over the years, and it was
Speaker 6: nothing to just slide into Tiuana for some drinks or
Speaker 6: just you know, to shop around for Chotchke's or something.
Speaker 6: So plus Mexicans, Wealthy Mexicans wanted their children to be
Speaker 6: educated in the US, so they would have established some
Speaker 6: kind of residents in the San Diego area along with
Speaker 6: their Mexican residents so their kids could go to school
Speaker 6: in the US. So she met in school lots of
Speaker 6: kids like that, wealthy Mexicanan had gone to their homes
Speaker 6: growing up somewhat so crossing the board. My point is
Speaker 6: crossing the border was not a big deal for her
Speaker 6: as it would be for somebody from you know, Wisconsin
Speaker 6: or somebody somewhere else to go into Tijuana at that time,
Speaker 6: and you own, this was just prior to when you
Speaker 6: needed to have a passport. You just needed a driver's
Speaker 6: license to cross the border before. One thing I learned
Speaker 6: through this incident was I always thought that Americans were
Speaker 6: kidnapped in Mexico for ransom, that they were targeting wealthy
Speaker 6: Americans or their children or something like that, And that's
Speaker 6: not all. They kidnapped for lots of reasons. One was
Speaker 6: to use Americans or you know, younger, younger Americans for
Speaker 6: drug mules, right drugs across the border. Another was for
Speaker 6: human trafficking for sexual reasons, not necessarily across the borders
Speaker 6: to the United States, but within Mexico or maybe being
Speaker 6: sent to other countries like Russia, which is actually what
Speaker 6: was in store for this girl down the road to
Speaker 6: be used for human trafficking, and that part is true.
Speaker 6: So then and also another reason that there could be
Speaker 6: a kidnapping would be someone to just prove that they
Speaker 6: can do it, like a gang member that would have
Speaker 6: no qualms, you know, like go kidnap that person over there,
Speaker 6: or you've got thirty minutes and go kidnap somebody or
Speaker 6: kill them or something is unbelievably ruthless. Unbelievably ruthless. So
Speaker 6: those are some other things that I learned, was that
Speaker 6: what kidnapping could be done, why they would kidnap there?
Speaker 5: Now? How did you say that Amanda was very comfortable
Speaker 5: while going over to the border. She had sort of
Speaker 5: a party streak. She was a party girl. You talked
Speaker 5: about an addiction to Viking in and a lot of
Speaker 5: people are addicted to oxycotton, some form of morphine, not heroine,
Speaker 5: but at least the opiates that. So people have a
Speaker 5: sort of a taste for that and they may have
Speaker 5: developed it legitimately or otherwise. Cocaine's in this mixt though
Speaker 5: as well, because it's a very social drug as well,
Speaker 5: cocaine alcohol. So we're talking about a pretty serious addiction
Speaker 5: in Amana had it wasn't a very wasn't very casual.
Speaker 5: It was it was a.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was not pretty and but and she was
Speaker 6: not happy with it. Clearly she wasn't happy to be
Speaker 6: like that. I don't think maybe some people are that habit.
Speaker 6: So she actually went there. She was in a big need,
Speaker 6: I guess you could say, in the middle of the
Speaker 6: day this one day, and made them a mistake of
Speaker 6: going there by herself. She had never done that. She'd
Speaker 6: gone usually with a friend to cross the border to
Speaker 6: purchase something from a pharmacia. But she had a fight
Speaker 6: with her boyfriend, just you know, other factors, and she
Speaker 6: drove in the middle of the day down into Tijuana
Speaker 6: anticipating a quick purchase. But she drove into Tijuana and
Speaker 6: was pulled out of her car in broad daylight, and
Speaker 6: her car was driven away and they had her.
Speaker 5: Now we're talking about a fairly valuable vehicle as well,
Speaker 5: and this would be important to the story. Whose vehicle
Speaker 5: was this?
Speaker 6: And uh, well, I guess valuable, Well, that's by definition
Speaker 6: would be valuable to them. It wasn't like it was
Speaker 6: a Mercedes. I think it was a maybe a Mustang
Speaker 6: or something. Not to say that that's not a nice car.
Speaker 6: That is a nice carce okay, So it was something
Speaker 6: like that. I don't remember this second Tomro, you know,
Speaker 6: some kind of a car like that, and it was
Speaker 6: her parents had bought it for her, and so anyway,
Speaker 6: she drove that and then that was the last time
Speaker 6: anyone saw that car. It was taken and it was
Speaker 6: actually stolen from the people that stole it, and it
Speaker 6: was stripped and driven to a impound lot outside of Tijuana.
Speaker 6: And by the time that we got the word of
Speaker 6: that from an insurance company, we went there, which was
Speaker 6: guarded by vicious dogs. It was just like a whole
Speaker 6: nother that was just a side story that was unbelievable.
Speaker 6: It was stolen from there, taken from there. So it
Speaker 6: was just a very frustrating experience, not only when we
Speaker 6: scared to death for her and being nervous there ourselves.
Speaker 6: It was very frustrating, frustrating dealing with the way the
Speaker 6: penal system is in Mexico. You're afraid of that. You
Speaker 6: don't know which police are good police. Maybe who's on
Speaker 6: the take of the cartel.
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Speaker 6: All that and they plus the police. You could go
Speaker 6: into one police station on a corner and they said
Speaker 6: they don't know anything. They tell you to go to
Speaker 6: another one like a block away, and I go, well,
Speaker 6: can't you just call them up up to your computer system.
Speaker 6: And we had a private investigator who's bilingual with US
Speaker 6: Mexican American actually, and he'd said, don't say that, don't
Speaker 6: get chook up. You just got to accept what it is.
Speaker 6: And it was very frustrating, and it was hot, it
Speaker 6: was hot, dirty, frustrating, scary, all these things, and we
Speaker 6: just kept thinking every second longer would we find her.
Speaker 6: And he was reporting back to my husband, this investigator,
Speaker 6: saying that the odds were not good of finding her alive,
Speaker 6: finding her at all, and men, particularly alive. So he
Speaker 6: did this type of thing. This wasn't his first time,
Speaker 6: so it was very stressful situation.
Speaker 5: Now we've just jumped way ahead for our audience. So
Speaker 5: let's go back a little bit to the to the
Speaker 5: realization that Amanda is actually missing. Now you said, this
Speaker 5: is not the first time she's gone over the borders.
Speaker 5: She's an adult.
Speaker 6: They didn't know she was doing this. They did not
Speaker 6: know she was doing this.
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, take us back to where they at the
Speaker 5: point where they actually realized the horror that she is missing,
Speaker 5: and then what there is there immediate reaction being in
Speaker 5: the US, and what do they do and what do
Speaker 5: they how do they get to the point where they
Speaker 5: have a private investigator that's bilingual, that's ready to help
Speaker 5: them take us back.
Speaker 6: Okay, Well, on about maybe day two two or three,
Speaker 6: I got a call from family members saying that she
Speaker 6: was missing. And I was kind of complacent, to be honest.
Speaker 6: They said, well, you know what, remember that time she
Speaker 6: went to Las Vegas with her friend and for a
Speaker 6: couple of days and you didn't know about it and
Speaker 6: stuff like that, cause she was twenty one, by the way,
Speaker 6: which also affected how the police felt in the United
Speaker 6: States because she was twenty one. So they go, no,
Speaker 6: this is different. You know, we were able to figure
Speaker 6: out you're calling different peace people where she was. Nobody
Speaker 6: knows anything. I still, because she had had some problems,
Speaker 6: wasn't all that shook up, to be honest, And I
Speaker 6: feel bad about that now, and I would caution people
Speaker 6: to go with your gut. Their gut was right, and
Speaker 6: I was distant and involved in my own life and
Speaker 6: everything else, and I just wasn't quite that worried yet. However,
Speaker 6: on I think day three there, three or four. They
Speaker 6: kept calling her cell and she was you know, they
Speaker 6: were just leaving messages finally to sell. The voicemail box
Speaker 6: was full, so they knew there was a real problem
Speaker 6: because it's you know, just like everybody else. They checked
Speaker 6: their voice, their messages all the time. They live by
Speaker 6: the cell. Well, with one day, like I guess the
Speaker 6: fourth day, maybe third day, third day they called in
Speaker 6: a Mexican male answered kind of with a thick accent
Speaker 6: and said a few she's mine, and her father went
Speaker 6: berserk and called again, and a female answered in a
Speaker 6: Mexican and just kind of said hello or whatever and
Speaker 6: then just hung up. So then he called me and
Speaker 6: said that you know she's in Mexico. And I said, well,
Speaker 6: how do you know she's in Mexico. There's people that
Speaker 6: speak Spanish, you know, right there. And he said, the
Speaker 6: phone makes a funny ring when it's across the border,
Speaker 6: Like if you have an American phone and you cross
Speaker 6: into Tijuana, it'll work for a mile or two in,
Speaker 6: but it makes a funny ring when you're calling, and
Speaker 6: it made that ring, so he knew at least the
Speaker 6: phone was there whereas she but the phone is there,
Speaker 6: and so that was the first idea they knew she
Speaker 6: was there, they didn't know she they didn't even I
Speaker 6: don't know if they thought about that. I suppose that
Speaker 6: was a possibility, but I think they thought she was
Speaker 6: just partying with friends, maybe in San Diego area, could
Speaker 6: be up in LA could be you know, she could
Speaker 6: be anywhere. They didn't know that was the problem. Could
Speaker 6: she have been passed out because she've odeed somewhere, something
Speaker 6: like that. So now there's this shocking thing. So my well,
Speaker 6: the we had somebody else got a called and got
Speaker 6: through the channels of their work, of their security department,
Speaker 6: a number in Washington that they used for international problems,
Speaker 6: and they got us in touch with the company, and
Speaker 6: we got this in this private investigator who we hired,
Speaker 6: who lived actually in southern California and who did help
Speaker 6: in these kind of situations. So we hired him. And
Speaker 6: then there was my uh, one of our friends was
Speaker 6: an ex Navy seal, and so there was like this
Speaker 6: little motley crew and we we just I flew out
Speaker 6: there when I got that message and then I heard
Speaker 6: the panic and the voice. I'm like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 6: this is this is something this is really something. Then
Speaker 6: I made plans and flew out thinking I would just,
Speaker 6: you know, help in any way I could. To be honest,
Speaker 6: I thought that I would help doing domestic things, making
Speaker 6: sure there was food to eat, that they had clean
Speaker 6: clothes to wear, that I would write something for them.
Speaker 6: You know. I was thinking, maybe America's most planet. These
Speaker 6: are the thoughts going in my mind. I was picked
Speaker 6: up from the airport and we went straight into Mexico,
Speaker 6: so I'm like, oh wow. We made posters with her
Speaker 6: picture on it and wrote everything in Spanish, and that's
Speaker 6: kind of how it started.
Speaker 5: What was the assessment by the private investigator is the
Speaker 5: character in your book, What was his assessment of the
Speaker 5: situation first? And then what was his plan and what
Speaker 5: was his sort of what was his the likelihood of
Speaker 5: success given based on his experience?
Speaker 6: Well, to her father, he always put forth a very
Speaker 6: positive face and thought and stuff like that. To my
Speaker 6: husband say, he was more real, I guess and said, yeah,
Speaker 6: they're not that great. We have to set expectations here
Speaker 6: somehow at some point that you know, it's a chancy situation,
Speaker 6: and with each passing moment it's not. It doesn't get better,
Speaker 6: just like you read all the time about any kind
Speaker 6: of a disappearance, kidnapping or disappearance. The more the time
Speaker 6: goes by, the less of a good thing. It is
Speaker 6: not that it's good, but the less of your chances
Speaker 6: of a good result are. So that was I mean,
Speaker 6: we were praying all the time. We were just totally panicked.
Speaker 6: It was really hard. Tempers were flaring, and we just
Speaker 6: had a really rough time of it. We would kind
Speaker 6: of wax and wane with how hopeful we could be
Speaker 6: kind of without dissolving into tears stuff like that. So
Speaker 6: we would just go in there and put these posters
Speaker 6: up and try to ask people. And he the investigator,
Speaker 6: had a he had met was a former state trooper,
Speaker 6: so he had some connections and the wood was going
Speaker 6: out underground and you know whoever he talked to.
Speaker 2: And then.
Speaker 6: One of our one of the guys that worked for
Speaker 6: my brother was he was from Tiwana and his cousin
Speaker 6: was a cop there. And so I mean we had
Speaker 6: like these different little you know, feelers you might say,
Speaker 6: trying to help. Plus we were paying cash all over
Speaker 6: the place to just try to go into a pharmacy
Speaker 6: and made off from you know, a little money. Have
Speaker 6: you seen this girl in this picture and stuff like that.
Speaker 6: Of course nobody knew anything. They took the money and
Speaker 6: then said they didn't know anything, which was not true
Speaker 6: in some cases. So that's how we were doing it.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 5: Uh, what I was gonna ask was what day was
Speaker 5: the car discovered? And why was it good use for
Speaker 5: your brother? And inversely, why was it not so good?
Speaker 5: Why did his wife Diane think it wasn't good news
Speaker 5: at all?
Speaker 6: Well, it was reported stolen because the San Diego police
Speaker 6: initially said, we can't help you if she's in Mexico,
Speaker 6: that's not our jurisdiction. But we can pull out of
Speaker 6: missing person's here and you know, keep the keep our
Speaker 6: eyes open here, but we can't cross, and we don't.
Speaker 1: This was then.
Speaker 6: I don't know how things are now. This was a
Speaker 6: few years, like six years ago, so I don't know
Speaker 6: now what the reciprocity is talking back and forth. This
Speaker 6: was then, and so that was very frustrating that when
Speaker 6: they just said we just can't. So then we reported
Speaker 6: the car stolen. So at least the border patrol, you know,
Speaker 6: this car with this plate or something comes through. So
Speaker 6: because it was reported stolen, the ven number was and
Speaker 6: even in Tijuana was called in or something. So we
Speaker 6: had a call from the insurance company, I mean from
Speaker 6: the yeah, I guess it was the insurance company, yeah,
Speaker 6: saying that this stolen car had been found. We were
Speaker 6: like elated. We thought that we would I don't know
Speaker 6: what we thought. We thought that we would find some
Speaker 6: clues with this car, like who brought it in, where
Speaker 6: did they find it, you know, stuff like that, what
Speaker 6: area of town. Well that didn't turn out to be
Speaker 6: so helpful because by the time we had to pay
Speaker 6: to by the time we found the proper place to
Speaker 6: pay to go to this place, and then drove to
Speaker 6: this horrific place out of town up this mountain, and
Speaker 6: then the guys there were no help at all, didn't care,
Speaker 6: were no help, and the car was not there. The
Speaker 6: car was already gone. So it turned out to be
Speaker 6: nothing we I mean nothing for us. We knew the
Speaker 6: car was gone and stripped, and nobody would talk. Nobody
Speaker 6: knew anything. And so that was very very frustrating, cost
Speaker 6: in fighting between all of us a little bit. So
Speaker 6: what you know, you're you go peaks and valleys. As
Speaker 6: we were, oh my gosh, this is our first clue,
Speaker 6: and we're going there and we're excited, and the mother
Speaker 6: and I didn't even get out of vehicle because these
Speaker 6: vicious and dogs were circling and barking and and it was,
Speaker 6: you know, scared to death. We're in this pickup truck
Speaker 6: with the doors locked when the guys got out because
Speaker 6: this man came to the door and called the dogs
Speaker 6: to him. So they bravely went in and found out nothing.
Speaker 6: So that took half a day at least to get
Speaker 6: that done. This another was like another wasted moment, wasted
Speaker 6: half day actually, so how we looked at it.
Speaker 5: Now, you in your book, very very carefully and very
Speaker 5: effectively crisscross and take us back from the US and
Speaker 5: from the family to Amanda. And Amanda, your family member
Speaker 5: is in custody. Here, she's a captive. Now, tell us
Speaker 5: what this captivity is characterized by. Tell us what her
Speaker 5: ordeal is like.
Speaker 6: Well, that was that's the that's the hard part to read,
Speaker 6: I think for most people because because this is the
Speaker 6: part that I encompassed different stories that I had heard
Speaker 6: and put them on this character of Amanda. So here's
Speaker 6: this young, pretty American girl and she's missing for eleven
Speaker 6: days at the hands of these ruthless men, some of
Speaker 6: whom were drug addicted themselves, and some are just so
Speaker 6: cold it's like they have no soul. It is unbelievable
Speaker 6: what some of these guys are. Like you read about
Speaker 6: it in the paper. You know, when they say heads
Speaker 6: a roll, then they physically had heads. I remember reading
Speaker 6: in Time magazine one time that there were these actual
Speaker 6: decapitated heads rolling into like the State building. I mean,
Speaker 6: who does that? You know what I mean, how can you?
Speaker 6: I don't know. That's just sickening. So anyway, she's this
Speaker 6: character is captive by people like this. Now, some of
Speaker 6: them were maybe worse than others. Some of the characters
Speaker 6: that were holding her were worse than others, which is
Speaker 6: I think when you read about people Patty Hirst and
Speaker 6: different things there, some of the captors were nicer than others.
Speaker 6: It was in this case as well. But she was
Speaker 6: drugged and tortured and starved and threatened and threatened not
Speaker 6: only just for herself and her life, but her families.
Speaker 6: Because they had made copies of her driver's license, knew
Speaker 6: where her family lived and who she was in a sense,
Speaker 6: and they could find her family, and they said the
Speaker 6: family would be the first to go then you So
Speaker 6: that was a very scary time for Amanda as well,
Speaker 6: and so everywhere that well, because I mean she was
Speaker 6: tortured and fearful, fearful for her life and for her
Speaker 6: family's life, and she was drugged. She never knew what
Speaker 6: day it was, what time it was. I mean, she
Speaker 6: lost like nineteen pounds and eleven days because they basically
Speaker 6: fed her like beans and chips a couple of times.
Speaker 6: So you know, it was not a pleasant It was
Speaker 6: horri horrific. It was horrible. It was it was horrible
Speaker 6: on all levels.
Speaker 5: You have a character somewhat sympathetic character, you know, among
Speaker 5: the cads and and villains of this story, and her
Speaker 5: name is Maria. And so tell us about who this
Speaker 5: Maria is in this story and in relation to Amanda.
Speaker 6: Well, the cartel in this story and in real life
Speaker 6: as well, they're intertwined. That the drug trafficking is sex trafficking.
Speaker 6: These guys are all cousins or brothers there. You know,
Speaker 6: some of the soldiers will interchange and will work for
Speaker 6: one and then the other and stuff like that. Just
Speaker 6: to kind of keep everybody on their toes and keep them,
Speaker 6: even though there's no honesty among thieves, to sort of
Speaker 6: keep them honest, you might say throw that the leaders
Speaker 6: are always in control. Well, some of the females are
Speaker 6: married to these guys or are sisters of these guys.
Speaker 6: And in the book, Maria is actually married to someone
Speaker 6: and then like a cousin or sister to someone else.
Speaker 6: And she has a little boy and he's in this
Speaker 6: one place. They move people around when you are kidnapped,
Speaker 6: you're off and moved around for different locations, and this
Speaker 6: was true here and in one location there was this woman,
Speaker 6: Maria and this little boy too, although they did move
Speaker 6: the boy out after a while. She wanted her son
Speaker 6: away from some of this. But so you get kind
Speaker 6: of a backstory on what's going on that a little bit.
Speaker 6: And Maria felt bad for this girl because she knew
Speaker 6: what could be in store for her. She knew what
Speaker 6: had happened to others, and this girl reminded her of
Speaker 6: her sister, so she kind of was hoping that the
Speaker 6: worst wouldn't happen to this girl. But at the end,
Speaker 6: she really had no control.
Speaker 5: At this time, what did Amanda, if she knew anything
Speaker 5: at all, what did she think her what the cartel
Speaker 5: wanted from her, and the Yeah, in.
Speaker 6: The beginning, she had no earthly idea fact. She thought
Speaker 6: it might be a mistake and stuff like that. And
Speaker 6: then they told her that she would get her car back.
Speaker 6: They kept saying, you're going to get your car back,
Speaker 6: and you're going to get to leave. You just do
Speaker 6: what we say, which they hadn't told her yet what
Speaker 6: that would be. But they tortured her too, physically and
Speaker 6: mentally and emotionally every which way, so and she just
Speaker 6: kept thinking she was in her drug hay. She would say,
Speaker 6: if I could just get my car back, you know,
Speaker 6: I'm just gonna be. I don't care that I'll just leave.
Speaker 6: I'll just go. I won't tell anybody anything. I'll never
Speaker 6: tell on them, and just you know, let me go
Speaker 6: and all this. But what they wanted her for was
Speaker 6: to be used as a drug mule. And when I
Speaker 6: actually found out how this was, this operation was working,
Speaker 6: I wanted to it was President Bush at the time.
Speaker 6: I wanted to like call him up and say, hey,
Speaker 6: I know something, But I mean I didn't know. It
Speaker 6: was a little bit fearful, to be honest, But they
Speaker 6: wanted her her and others like her to be drug
Speaker 6: mules because you only needed your driver's license to cross
Speaker 6: the border. And even though when we would cross there
Speaker 6: would be drug sniffing dogs and stuff. And I asked later,
Speaker 6: how could you were you scared of the drug sniffing
Speaker 6: dogs and she said everything was pre arranged. So there
Speaker 6: were a lot of inside by the car to hel
Speaker 6: and this is on the Mexican side, but too and
Speaker 6: they had like a walkie talking next to her, and
Speaker 6: you know, they said, if you give any indication at all,
Speaker 6: your family is dead and then you So the whole
Speaker 6: thing was quite you know, that's what they wanted for initially,
Speaker 6: but then when they saw the posters, because we kept
Speaker 6: putting up posters and the word was spreading that somebody
Speaker 6: was actively looking for this girl. Sometimes people don't look
Speaker 6: for people right away, or don't have the resources, or
Speaker 6: don't think what to do, or maybe if if their
Speaker 6: loved one is from Wisconsin and for example, we were
Speaker 6: right there, but you know, they're far away. Maybe they
Speaker 6: don't know that they're there or how to do it
Speaker 6: or what to do, and by the time they get there,
Speaker 6: it's too late. So not everybody gets as actively looked
Speaker 6: for in time, you might say. So we were putting
Speaker 6: up these posters. Sometimes they were being taken down, but
Speaker 6: we had them up all over and sometimes we found
Speaker 6: we would find some police officers in their cars that
Speaker 6: would have a copy. So we were thrilled at that
Speaker 6: because we were trying to take them to different police
Speaker 6: stations and have them pass them out and we didn't
Speaker 6: know if they would and stuff like that, so we
Speaker 6: were hopeful that, you know, that would help us. Well,
Speaker 6: the cartel saw that too, so their plan they were
Speaker 6: they were not happy, and they weren't going to lose.
Speaker 6: They don't want to lose anything. So their plan was
Speaker 6: to send her to Mexico City for use in their
Speaker 6: prostitution trade and then eventually probably liked to Russia. And
Speaker 6: that's how people disappear. I mean, if you live through it,
Speaker 6: if you live that long as a young woman, if
Speaker 6: you live to get there, and if you live through
Speaker 6: Mexico City for however long you're there, then you can
Speaker 6: be shipped somewhere else and and you know your family
Speaker 6: would never find you.
Speaker 5: Now you're in you're in Mexico, your brother, his wife,
Speaker 5: you have a private investigator, and then yeah, there's other
Speaker 5: family members as well that are calling people just an
Speaker 5: ex seel friends. Okay, but I'm saying that you have
Speaker 5: all kinds of support in America as well, people if
Speaker 5: they have any contacts at all, if they know anybody
Speaker 5: or know anything. So there's actively all these people looking
Speaker 5: for Amanda. You found you wasn't very beneficial or any
Speaker 5: kind of significant help finding the vehicle or in that pursuit.
Speaker 5: So what is the next What is the next after
Speaker 5: the vehicle and the failure of that, and maybe the
Speaker 5: despondency from lack of success with that, what's the next
Speaker 5: step in you and your family search for Amanda.
Speaker 6: Well, the only thing that sort of saved us that
Speaker 6: day from probably shooting ourselves from being so despondent was
Speaker 6: as we've left that Mountaine area, we were getting back
Speaker 6: towards the city, if you could, and then, mind you,
Speaker 6: this is like a third world country. You're cross into
Speaker 6: tea one. It it's just unbelievab well it's totally different.
Speaker 6: But we saw this police car and my brother ran
Speaker 6: up to him and with a poster. He said, have
Speaker 6: you seen this girl? And he had a poster in
Speaker 6: the car with him, and my brother just about burst
Speaker 6: into tears. He said, oh my god, thank god, they're
Speaker 6: they're looking too, at least some. So that was like
Speaker 6: one little positive thing after that huge negative, you know
Speaker 6: with the car. So we're kind of excited that they're
Speaker 6: looking too, and so then but then the thought crossed
Speaker 6: our mind, so this is the highs and lows. So
Speaker 6: that was a load, then a high, and the next
Speaker 6: low was if the car tell or whoever has her.
Speaker 6: We didn't know who had her for sure. We thought
Speaker 6: maybe somebody involved with drugs might have her, but we
Speaker 6: didn't know who exactly. If they knew she was being
Speaker 6: looked for, that could be good, That could be bad.
Speaker 6: That could be bad, that they could be just angry,
Speaker 6: and there could be a body tossed out just as
Speaker 6: a as a warning or as a like f you
Speaker 6: or something, you know, don't mess with us, or they
Speaker 6: Maybe then then we would say, maybe they'll let her go,
Speaker 6: you know, in our hopeful moments. So we were kind
Speaker 6: of scared. We were happy that we that we knew
Speaker 6: that more people were looking, but we were all soul
Speaker 6: scared about it because we didn't know would they would
Speaker 6: that make it worse for her?
Speaker 5: Wasn't there any wasn't there any question that she might
Speaker 5: be kidnapped? And there might be especially now what you've
Speaker 5: the scenario have just depicted, is that if if there
Speaker 5: are people with resources and the means and already sniffing
Speaker 5: around in Tijuana, why can't somebody offer this this safe
Speaker 5: release of this person for ransom. Well, didn't that we were.
Speaker 6: Putting We were putting out reward, the word of reward
Speaker 6: we were, but ransom they want like people that are
Speaker 6: kidnapped ransom were kidnapped for lots of money, very wealthy people.
Speaker 6: And actually, since this book has come out, I've had
Speaker 6: people call me who were kidnapped for ransom. I just met.
Speaker 6: I just talked to a young woman actually from California,
Speaker 6: just two weeks ago, who was kidnapped and tortured horribly
Speaker 6: for she was wealthy from a wealthy family, and she
Speaker 6: was kidnapped ransom. So when they kidnapped for ransom, they
Speaker 6: kidnapped for lots of money. My family didn't have that
Speaker 6: kind of money, so I guess, and that wasn't their
Speaker 6: original feel. They probably could tell. I mean, the girl
Speaker 6: that was kidnapped for lots of money had her own
Speaker 6: Mercedes that she drove in their beautiful car and whatever,
Speaker 6: and you know mine has like you know, used use
Speaker 6: mustn't or something. Do you know what I'm saying. So
Speaker 6: it was just a different, different economic situation. But we
Speaker 6: did put out the word for a reward to try
Speaker 6: to get help and stuff. And we felt that it
Speaker 6: was a race against time. Always, every minute was like
Speaker 6: a race against time. But we did of clues a
Speaker 6: little bit after like several days. She's gone eleven days,
Speaker 6: mind you. So I think maybe on about the eighth day,
Speaker 6: somebody said to saw the poster in our hands and said,
Speaker 6: I've seen that girl, and that started, uh, you know,
Speaker 6: chain reaction, you might say, different events for the last
Speaker 6: for the final three.
Speaker 5: Days described describe the reaction of Diane, a man, his mother, Stephen,
Speaker 5: the father, yourself, What was their reaction? I mean, obviously
Speaker 5: you're going through your own torment, but especially for these
Speaker 5: the parents. Tell us what their reaction was when that
Speaker 5: girl said I've seen this girl.
Speaker 6: Yeah it was. He was Actually he was like an
Speaker 6: ultimate fighter guy, an MMA type of guy, a champion,
Speaker 6: but he was down there where he was he had
Speaker 6: started initially going there for stair shots. He's from a
Speaker 6: wealthy family in Laoya, and he said, I've seen her
Speaker 6: like like in the back of a pharmacia, you know,
Speaker 6: doing that's another thing. You could buy your oxycon and
Speaker 6: they take you in the back room. You could chop
Speaker 6: it up and just snort it right up there. So
Speaker 6: they that they keep that's how they keep you hooked too,
Speaker 6: that you don't even just get the pills to take
Speaker 6: and leave and try to bring them across the border.
Speaker 6: Say a handful in your pocket and take the chance.
Speaker 6: You can just do them right there. And he had
Speaker 6: said he had seen that. He called her not by
Speaker 6: the correct name, like the character's name is Amanda, and
Speaker 6: I don't remember what he called her in the book,
Speaker 6: but it was a similar name. And we go, that's
Speaker 6: close enough, you know, because he was he was high
Speaker 6: at the time too, he was he was like drinking.
Speaker 6: He had been drinking too. He was like sort of weaving.
Speaker 6: We didn't know if it was for real, but he
Speaker 6: didn't say there, Susan, it was like something close to
Speaker 6: Amanda or maybe because sometimes she went by Mandy, and
Speaker 6: I think maybe he said something like that. So we're like, yes,
Speaker 6: you know, that's close. That's that's got to be close. Plus,
Speaker 6: mind you, we were practically hysterical that somebody said something.
Speaker 6: So he was hungry. We gave him food, we were
Speaker 6: giving him trying to give him some money that, you know,
Speaker 6: to guide us. And he took us on a kind
Speaker 6: of a wild goose chase at first, and I was angry.
Speaker 6: Excuse me, I was angry because he wanted to eat again.
Speaker 6: We just sped him. And then y'all hop in a
Speaker 6: cab and go into the it's horrible the middle area
Speaker 6: of t one. He goes, well, here's what I like
Speaker 6: to eat, and I go eat. I mean, you just ate.
Speaker 6: And so we go into this place. My brother's gonna
Speaker 6: be quiet, be quiet, you know, don't check him up.
Speaker 6: So we go in there and there's like these there's
Speaker 6: four guys now and me and my sister in law,
Speaker 6: and he says to me, you should get this is
Speaker 6: they have the best hamburgers here in town. And I'm like,
Speaker 6: you know what, I'm not gonna order a hamburger here.
Speaker 6: I don't think they even have like, oh, what do
Speaker 6: your codes or anything? I said, I go, I think
Speaker 6: it's price of mystery meat. And he actually lunged at
Speaker 6: me over the you know, over this chair and the
Speaker 6: other guy's had to pull him off, and he says
Speaker 6: ultimate fighter and they go to me, what are you doing?
Speaker 6: I go, what am I doing? I don't even want
Speaker 6: to So we're all like fighting right there, and so yeah,
Speaker 6: I mean, your tempers just go, you know crazy. I
Speaker 6: didn't like the guy. I didn't believe him. I didn't
Speaker 6: want to. I thought he was going to take everybody
Speaker 6: for a ride and somebody brothers begging me to be quiet,
Speaker 6: and so it was kind of, you know, there were
Speaker 6: all kinds of sub things going on while we're wondering
Speaker 6: and looking and trying to find her.
Speaker 5: What did he did? He point in the direction for
Speaker 5: the family the pharmacia that he saw Amanda recently. I mean,
Speaker 5: were we talking about this trip or were we talking
Speaker 5: about other trips? And based on that information of that pharmacia,
Speaker 5: what what did you and your family then do?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 6: He did? He did say, we walked several blocks and
Speaker 6: he goes, I know we were in that one, in
Speaker 6: the back of that one. So he didn't want everybody
Speaker 6: to go in like a parade. So he picked me
Speaker 6: and maybe my brother and maybe he's not the not
Speaker 6: the interpreter though even though I can speak Spanish, I can't.
Speaker 6: I'm not. If they go really fast, I lose a lot.
Speaker 6: So we're going there and he says to the you
Speaker 6: know the guy, you know, where's that girl? You know?
Speaker 6: He goes, you know that girl with the long hair,
Speaker 6: blah blah blah blah. The guy he's at first of
Speaker 6: all exactly like he can't speak English as all. He
Speaker 6: doesn't know what he's talking about. And we're trying to
Speaker 6: offer money and then we'd get thrown out at the
Speaker 6: end of the long story short, we get thrown out.
Speaker 6: So and then the ultimate Fighter sort of blames us
Speaker 6: because he said you acted too desperate, and so everything
Speaker 6: was like very tense, very tense. Not just nicely walking
Speaker 6: in and trying stuff. It was very tense. And I
Speaker 6: didn't even know if he was making it up either
Speaker 6: this kid, because he wanted money but got but the
Speaker 6: and food clearly often.
Speaker 5: Clearly, so you know that.
Speaker 6: I mean, it was a it was hard. It was
Speaker 6: really really hard.
Speaker 5: So you've you've failed again, or at least it seems
Speaker 5: like more failure. And and like you say, this guy's
Speaker 5: acting very sketchy. So I'm there with you in the
Speaker 5: story too, where he's just doesn't seem so reliable. So
Speaker 5: I would be cynical myself. So what happens next, Well,
Speaker 5: then he.
Speaker 6: Talked about and I can't you know, I don't remember exactly.
Speaker 6: I think it may be right. The next day we
Speaker 6: met him again. The day ends and we meet him
Speaker 6: again and feed him again. And so which is okay.
Speaker 6: I you know, I'm not trying to say that I
Speaker 6: was like a not nice person myself. I wouldn't feed him.
Speaker 6: It's just that I just had a hard time believing him.
Speaker 6: I didn't want him to just use my my family
Speaker 6: who was at their wits end. So then he talked
Speaker 6: about in this really sea seed area cd or that
Speaker 6: there's like these hotels where girls would maybe trade sex
Speaker 6: for drugs, and he goes, there's a lot of American
Speaker 6: girls that go that, that are hooks that go there.
Speaker 6: Now at this point, there's not we're not talking about captivity.
Speaker 6: We're just saying girls that are there, that they're messed up,
Speaker 6: that are like kind of like living in the street
Speaker 6: and doing that. So he's my my brother goes, I'm
Speaker 6: not here to make a moral judgment. I want to
Speaker 6: get my daughter back, take me there. So we're all
Speaker 6: ready we're in a middle area again, which is not
Speaker 6: a good area to be. And so the private investigator
Speaker 6: says he's gonna take me and my sister in will
Speaker 6: back to the border area at least like towards McDonald's,
Speaker 6: which was safer, and they would go to that. The
Speaker 6: other guys would go to the hotel and he would
Speaker 6: go join them.
Speaker 2: So we do that.
Speaker 6: She and I are back there by the border closer
Speaker 6: and these guys are roaming around, going into these picky
Speaker 6: places and they get so do go into this one
Speaker 6: hotel where he's seen where I guess maybe he's even
Speaker 6: done drugs with girls. I don't know his whole story.
Speaker 6: I just know some of it, and it was enough.
Speaker 6: But she was not there. So there were girls there,
Speaker 6: but American girls, but she was not there. So I
Speaker 6: remember my brother said that he was on the one hand,
Speaker 6: kind of relieved, but on the other hand not because
Speaker 6: you know, he wanted to get her in this to
Speaker 6: be over with, but then he was kind of relieved
Speaker 6: she wasn't there. It was horrible situation, very seedy and
Speaker 6: very I mean, it's more graphically described in the books,
Speaker 6: and I would really want to stay in the air.
Speaker 6: So that was another day.
Speaker 5: Then well you should say it on the air, because this,
Speaker 5: it is the most shocking killers in true crime history.
Speaker 6: You've heard say it. It's hard for me to actually,
Speaker 6: it's easier for me to write it than it is
Speaker 6: to say it. But these girls were Okay, everybody's like nude,
Speaker 6: they're puking, they're hitting up, they're they're having sex right
Speaker 6: there in the open and in the rooms and just
Speaker 6: you know, it's gross and horrible and shocking, and you
Speaker 6: don't you pray to God that that nobody you know
Speaker 6: is there like that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a shooting gallery, is it?
Speaker 6: Oh? Sure? Everything you name it and they do it?
Speaker 5: Did it? Do it? And you describe the conditions in
Speaker 5: Tijuana toil you talk about CD and because we talked
Speaker 5: about it in the introduction, you you really describe how
Speaker 5: bad this is, how.
Speaker 6: It's very bad too. It's sad because children are begging
Speaker 6: and they're so and there's people that are missing limbs
Speaker 6: who are begging, and I mean there's just all kinds
Speaker 6: of oh my gosh. It's you go there and you're
Speaker 6: like so grateful for anything that you have. You feel
Speaker 6: bad that you've ever complained about anything, because these people,
Speaker 6: a lot of them have nothing and they're just and
Speaker 6: the cartel has everything, and it's just, you know, it's horrible.
Speaker 6: It's horrible. So we didn't want to split up.
Speaker 5: They didn't.
Speaker 6: You know, we barely split up like twos and threes
Speaker 6: a few feet away from me each other, because it
Speaker 6: was just we were kind of paranoid there.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because Diana suggested that maybe she could go across
Speaker 5: the streets so they can cover more ground, and they.
Speaker 6: Said no, that was mixed. And then when we were
Speaker 6: at that one place where he was saying these hamburgers
Speaker 6: were great, which I was sure that they were, like
Speaker 6: dog made the first the guy said, well, listen, we'll
Speaker 6: go to look at these hotels YouTube stay right here.
Speaker 6: I'm like, I'm not staying here, my god, I don't
Speaker 6: even know where we are to, you know, what a
Speaker 6: cabby to come by and would even take us to
Speaker 6: the right place if we got a cab. So that's
Speaker 6: when we hiked for like eight blocks back with the
Speaker 6: private investigator taking us back, because I go, if you
Speaker 6: guys come back and we're not here, then what you know.
Speaker 6: So there's a lot of stuff you know, a lot
Speaker 6: of fear going on in so many elements, so many levels.
Speaker 5: But the one.
Speaker 6: Thing, that one thing that the Ultimate Fire did do
Speaker 6: was he had a friend who was a police officer
Speaker 6: in the Mexican Police Force, and he said he knew
Speaker 6: that this guy would help us off hours, like you know,
Speaker 6: off book sure out for cash, and so we said,
Speaker 6: we'll take it. We'll do anything. By that point, i mean,
Speaker 6: we're we're now in day eight, day nine or something.
Speaker 6: You know, we would do anything, anything because we're just
Speaker 6: getting scary and not looking good. So the next day
Speaker 6: he arranges that we meet this guy. So he comes,
Speaker 6: we give him some money, he says he'll come back.
Speaker 6: We never saw him again. We never saw the Ultimate
Speaker 6: Fighter again after that. But down now we've got this
Speaker 6: cup guy who's who was a very nice guy. I'm
Speaker 6: gonna say he was like in his mid thirty or
Speaker 6: young thirties, you know, maybe thirty fourish, married with two kids,
Speaker 6: and he really Now, mind you, we're putting our trust
Speaker 6: in somebody that we have no idea. But at that
Speaker 6: point we were just so scared that we would do anything.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 6: That led to another whole set of situations circumstances.
Speaker 5: So we're at day nine. You have a police officer,
Speaker 5: now not the hungry guy that's it's sketchy. So what
Speaker 5: does he recommend and what can he do with his contacts?
Speaker 6: So he gets off work at four in the afternoon,
Speaker 6: so this is going to now be taking place in
Speaker 6: the evenings. So the first time I'm there with my
Speaker 6: sister in law two, but then after that, since this
Speaker 6: has taken place, the meeting with him is like at
Speaker 6: night more. It was determined that we wouldn't be there,
Speaker 6: so we stayed in San Diego the last two nights
Speaker 6: two three nights, because we went in the day, but
Speaker 6: then we'd go back take the We took the train
Speaker 6: back across the border and then hopped to the train
Speaker 6: because it just we didn't want to be there at night,
Speaker 6: and they didn't want to stare at night either. So
Speaker 6: he now the cop knew being cop places that are
Speaker 6: even worse. It's called Zlana Norte. There's an area called
Speaker 6: Zononorte that is just really it's like it's like hell
Speaker 6: on earth. Really, people were doing anything with anybody, and
Speaker 6: all kinds of drugs and all kinds of gloss things
Speaker 6: just on the in the streets everything. There's processes everywhere.
Speaker 6: It's just you know, drug, drug addicts everywhere and stuff
Speaker 6: like that. So they there was like four of them,
Speaker 6: four guys, and they would go two would watch their
Speaker 6: backs and two would go into a sad bar and
Speaker 6: then they would come out, you know, trying to find
Speaker 6: her with the with the posters and stuff like that
Speaker 6: and cash. And so I'm gonna say that maybe on
Speaker 6: night ten, somebody who was messed up, said, an American
Speaker 6: who was messed up, said, I've seen her here in
Speaker 6: that area and with two Mexican guys in the evening.
Speaker 6: And so the plan by this time it was midnight,
Speaker 6: but he said he thought it was earlier in the evening,
Speaker 6: like eight or nine that he had seen them. So
Speaker 6: the plan was to come back the next night and
Speaker 6: look again. So that's what they did.
Speaker 5: And tell us about the next night. What did they
Speaker 5: encounter and before before you do that, what was there
Speaker 5: did they share the information with? Obviously they shared this
Speaker 5: information with yourself and Steve's wife. Tell us what what
Speaker 5: was the feeling like when you got that little bit
Speaker 5: of information? It seemed optimistic. What was it like for
Speaker 5: you and for Dad?
Speaker 6: Yeah, Well, we were hopeful that a this person was
Speaker 6: telling the truth. Mind you, he was. He was on
Speaker 6: drugs and they gave him there was a reward and
Speaker 6: he knew it. So I'm skeptical always. So there was that,
Speaker 6: But then there was the thought that maybe she was alive.
Speaker 6: That was the big thing, was that maybe she would
Speaker 6: be alive and still in Tijuana also, right, So we
Speaker 6: were hopeful about that, but we're scared to get too hopeful.
Speaker 6: I mean, you're scared too, because when the lights go
Speaker 6: out and you get in bed at night, boy, your
Speaker 6: mind just takes you to every horrible thing you've ever heard. Well,
Speaker 6: you know, you get scared to think about it. So
Speaker 6: the last but turned out to be the last night.
Speaker 6: They go back, the four of them, and they meet
Speaker 6: at like five o'clock I think, and they go back
Speaker 6: to this horrible area and they're doing all that again
Speaker 6: and looking and there's a guy and they called him
Speaker 6: the Twitter, another American. Actually there's a lot of a
Speaker 6: lot of drug addicts down there, and he was probably
Speaker 6: in his forties and he was really high and he
Speaker 6: said he knew where she was. Right then, wow, And
Speaker 6: I mean that was just a moment that it's unbelievable
Speaker 6: for them. Now, we didn't know this, The sister ron
Speaker 6: and I did not know this. They didn't like call
Speaker 6: us up and tell us that when this was going on.
Speaker 5: What was the questions for him? Though? For our audience,
Speaker 5: what was okay somebody makes a statement like that, you
Speaker 5: got to get that statement qualified. And when you've had
Speaker 5: all these failures and you've had all these you know again,
Speaker 5: everybody is at this tense, super tense peak. You know,
Speaker 5: it's hot, it's day. Yeah, eleven, tell us what the
Speaker 5: conversation was when this twitcher. The twitcher says, I know
Speaker 5: where she is right now. Well, how does he know
Speaker 5: where she is right now?
Speaker 6: Because he worked for the drug cartel. He worked for them,
Speaker 6: and he knew where she was, and he knew that
Speaker 6: the next day they were taking her to Mexico City
Speaker 6: to be using the prostitution trade because they knew she
Speaker 6: was being looked for and they were fed up and
Speaker 6: she was attractive and they thought they could make money
Speaker 6: off of her that way. So well, they threatened him,
Speaker 6: and I mean this is partly where I put in
Speaker 6: other stories too, you know, And so there was a
Speaker 6: lot of threatening to this guy. But he he kind
Speaker 6: of had always had thoughts that he'd like to get
Speaker 6: out of, out from underneath the situation he was in,
Speaker 6: and he could well, it was a horrible life and
Speaker 6: he wanted to get away from it and maybe get
Speaker 6: back to the States. He hadn't seen his family in years,
Speaker 6: and he would have moments of clarity thinking he would
Speaker 6: like to do that. And so here they're offering him
Speaker 6: cash and he's like, maybe this I could just take
Speaker 6: the cash and go, but that's not what ultimately happens
Speaker 6: to him. But anyway, so he tells them where she
Speaker 6: is and they formulate a plan. I'm giving you like
Speaker 6: a quick version. They formulate a plan, and they know
Speaker 6: it's a it could be a deadly plan. It could
Speaker 6: be the last thing they ever do.
Speaker 5: And it was.
Speaker 6: I mean when we talked about it later, we would
Speaker 6: sob talking about this situation. When I was good, you know,
Speaker 6: taking notes like interviewing him to write the book. I mean,
Speaker 6: we would just sob because this was so intense and
Speaker 6: so scary.
Speaker 5: What was the plan?
Speaker 6: The plan She was held in the rooftop shed, and
Speaker 6: the plan was that the police officer who was in
Speaker 6: plane clothes and off duty would kick open the door
Speaker 6: with his gun drawn and his badge, and they would
Speaker 6: try to infer that there were cops out there around
Speaker 6: and that they came to get this girl and they
Speaker 6: better not do anything you know, inside, but give the
Speaker 6: girl because like they would be killed. This was kind
Speaker 6: of like they would try to infer that they didn't
Speaker 6: know if that would happen, although the twitter did say
Speaker 6: that there was a good chance that the guy's holding
Speaker 6: her would be high because they weren't expecting to, you know,
Speaker 6: a rescue situation that night, and the guys that they
Speaker 6: had holding are were low up old guys with guns,
Speaker 6: but that like to get high. When I say high,
Speaker 6: I mean like maybe heroin, you know high, really high.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, So not.
Speaker 6: Just like smoking a joint. So cause they're all they're
Speaker 6: all you know, lows and just ladies and everything. So
Speaker 6: they were hoping that they would be high so that
Speaker 6: they would be slow in their reaction. Everything would have
Speaker 6: to be of the perfect everything would have to be
Speaker 6: perfect for it to work.
Speaker 5: Its still very daring, though, oh very.
Speaker 6: Daring, because like my brother said to his friend, the
Speaker 6: maybe silly goes, you don't have to go, he goes,
Speaker 6: I have to fight to the desk to get her back.
Speaker 6: He he's he said, but you don't have to do this.
Speaker 6: So I mean it was you know, very emotional for
Speaker 6: them and everything too. As they made this plan. I
Speaker 6: mean they had first they all tried tried to, tried to,
Speaker 6: They threw their ideas together of a plan, and then
Speaker 6: they came up with they picked up what they thought
Speaker 6: was the best plan. Why didn't in a fast situation.
Speaker 5: Why did Why did the police officer volunteer to do this?
Speaker 5: Because clearly he had less well, he had had no
Speaker 5: ties basically, so why, I know, that's just amazing.
Speaker 6: I mean he was getting paid, you know, it was
Speaker 6: sure had money to do it. I think he had
Speaker 6: a good heart. Yeah, and I believe that he thought
Speaker 6: that there was a good chance this plan would work
Speaker 6: because some of these guys are fools. This wasn't going
Speaker 6: to be it wasn't going to be like Felix Ariana
Speaker 6: holding her. You know, it was going to be some
Speaker 6: of his thugs. And some of these thugs aren't you know,
Speaker 6: they're not all that smart. That ones that are that
Speaker 6: are like soldiers, not the upper guys. I mean, they
Speaker 6: were thinking that this is how the situation would be
Speaker 6: according to how the Twitter talked about it. Sure, So
Speaker 6: I mean if she'd have been in a different you know,
Speaker 6: maybe in in a main place with those top guys,
Speaker 6: it would have clearly been a different story. Like the
Speaker 6: girl that I was telling about that I've talked to
Speaker 6: recently that was kidnapped ransom. I mean they had the
Speaker 6: deea that had the FBI. They had like twelve limousines
Speaker 6: coming with guys with full body armor to rescue her
Speaker 6: and stuff. I mean, she was from a very well
Speaker 6: to do and well known family. Sure, I'm not at
Speaker 6: liberty to talk about right now because it's an ongoing
Speaker 6: situation case. But so you know, there's different things, and
Speaker 6: it's just her. Her has just happened a year ago,
Speaker 6: and this is like six years ago to a to
Speaker 6: a girl that didn't have a lot of money. So
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, different stories, different situations, but
Speaker 6: clearly a lot of situations happened.
Speaker 5: Still.
Speaker 6: So anyway, they were hoping that this final from the
Speaker 6: plan they came up us, you know, would work. So
Speaker 6: they went to execute the plan. And well, I mean,
Speaker 6: should I say it or should people read the book?
Speaker 6: I don't know what to say here, well.
Speaker 5: We'll leave them, We'll leave them hanging on the cliff
Speaker 5: here if you like, sure, why not. Yeah, it's been
Speaker 5: it's very interesting, very very interesting, and you really draw
Speaker 5: the characters in and draw the reader in and to
Speaker 5: really experience this real hell. I mean it's another day
Speaker 5: in hell. I think you have a Yeah, another day
Speaker 5: and another day, and it's hot. It's frustrating. People seem,
Speaker 5: especially in the beginning, very oblivious. What you really portrayed
Speaker 5: to is, you know, the frustration with Amanda's father and
Speaker 5: mother and then their guide Bert saying, listen, you just
Speaker 5: don't understand. These police horses don't work together. They're telling
Speaker 5: you to go to another police station a few blocks away.
Speaker 5: Why is that, Well, because they all work independently, and
Speaker 5: so it's not. And so you really tell the picture
Speaker 5: of the draw the picture of how it really is there.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I painted that scene because that's how it was.
Speaker 6: It was extremely frustrating, and when you're you're want to
Speaker 6: shake people, but then you're pad you're going to get
Speaker 6: arrested yourself there, and then almost you don't care, and
Speaker 6: you know, things like that. It was just it was amazing.
Speaker 6: It was just amazing. And my initial book, my working
Speaker 6: title was eleven Days in Hell because it was eleven
Speaker 6: Days in Hell for her, eleven days and hell for everybody,
Speaker 6: but my publisher kind of nixed that title for Kidnapped
Speaker 6: by the Cartel because they thought they didn't want somebody
Speaker 6: to think it was a religious book.
Speaker 5: Which, well, I think I just think it's more appropriate
Speaker 5: title Kidnapped by the Cartel and more provocative actually, because
Speaker 5: there's so many twists. It's like some titles are overused,
Speaker 5: you know, some terms are overused. So yeah, this is
Speaker 5: this is much more appropriate, and I think it's more
Speaker 5: unique as well. Yeah, yeah, very interesting. So I won't
Speaker 5: give too much away, But in real terms, how is
Speaker 5: Amanda okay? Right?
Speaker 6: Aside from the book, Amanda think God is doing well now?
Speaker 6: Be a couple of years of of oh, trauma counseling, sure,
Speaker 6: but she's doing very well now and so we're grateful
Speaker 6: for that. I would not have written the book probably, well,
Speaker 6: I can't say that. I don't know, but it would
Speaker 6: have been a very difficult thing to write if she
Speaker 6: were not doing well now.
Speaker 5: Sure, sure. Yeah, and the tone, the tone of the
Speaker 5: book would be much different obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah,
Speaker 5: it would be hard getting up for the interviews because
Speaker 5: then you'd have to relive. I mean it's hard enough
Speaker 5: with this, right what happened and what almost happened? Never mind, Well, I.
Speaker 6: Was on a TV show two weeks ago in New York, actually,
Speaker 6: and it was hard. It was hard to talk a
Speaker 6: little bit about it on camera, even you know, when
Speaker 6: I could have put myself back into that spot. So
Speaker 6: it was better to talk about the character in the book,
Speaker 6: do you know what I mean?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. Now, for those that have been
Speaker 5: listening to the program, do you have a you have
Speaker 5: a website?
Speaker 6: I do. You can get the book at www dot
Speaker 6: Kidnapped by the Cartel. Well, you can go to Amazon,
Speaker 6: you can go to Barnesonnoble dot com. You can get
Speaker 6: it for your e reader. You can get a book, yeah,
Speaker 6: if you just google my name. I also have another
Speaker 6: website that's just my name, Karen Shosha. But that's sort
Speaker 6: of hard to maybe remember. But like if somebody wanted
Speaker 6: a signed copy or something, they could contact me that way.
Speaker 6: Some people like that they collect books, but there's a
Speaker 6: lot of different ways to get it.
Speaker 5: Sure. Well, I just wanted to say too that you're
Speaker 5: on Facebook as well, so if people want to contact you, buya,
Speaker 5: there are a lot of people. It's just very religious
Speaker 5: about that. So I'm on.
Speaker 6: Twitter now too. I've learned how to do that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you got it going on. Yeah. For those listening
Speaker 5: to the program of the book that we were profiling
Speaker 5: this evening is kidnapped by the cartel and this is
Speaker 5: a novel which is fictional, but it's inspired by a
Speaker 5: true story. And for those who have been listening, it's
Speaker 5: a one heck of a true story. And I want
Speaker 5: to thank you very much Karen Scotia for coming having again.
Speaker 6: I really appreciate it. Your super guy and your show
Speaker 6: is awesome.
Speaker 5: Shocks. Well, you've been a great guest, and thank you
Speaker 5: very much, first for a great read and for a
Speaker 5: great interview and and something that we normally don't have
Speaker 5: on True Murder, sort of a happy ending because True
Speaker 5: Murder we just don't have those, so for once, a
Speaker 5: little bit of a rarity. So I want to thank
Speaker 5: you very much for that and wish you all the
Speaker 5: best of luck with this and again, great book, and
Speaker 5: thank you for this interview.
Speaker 6: Thank you so much.
Speaker 5: Thanks to thank you Karen Okay, bye bye, good night.