Speaker 1: God, everyone in the audience just missed us last week
when we weren't here. Actually I wasn't even here the
week before because I was stuck in the office. So
I'm sure everybody has just been crying. Where is Red Hawk?
I want him to return? Where is Pete? I want
him back? Uh, you know, there's been great gnashing of teeth.
They've been waiting for us to return. So but we
are back from other episode of Pony Express Radio, joined
tonight by mister pee Quinonez.
Speaker 2: How are you, Pete?
Speaker 3: You know we did a live stream last week.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, we did do anything. Nope, nope, didn't happen.
It did not happen. I don't know what you're talking about.
All we did was stream some Warhammer. That's all we did.
People could become members of the OGC channel to watch
our various Warhammer streams if you guys are so inclined.
We have a lot of fun over there. But no
other than that, there was no streaming that occurred, of
course not. And joining us tonight is our good friend
mister Thomas Triple seven.
Speaker 2: How are you, Thomas.
Speaker 4: I'm doing well. Thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Before we get into the topic, because of course it
was Saint Patrick's Day of this week. We do need
to keep the lights on it over here, so we
need to talk about all of our various sponsors and
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So definitely head on over to alb while you guys
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as ever. Everyone knows when you go to an OGC
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head on over to Ms Vndurolo Suits. Link is also
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I'm looking forward to getting fitted for one at the
national conference this year, and everyone in the audience should
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then also give some support and love to American Spirits
host and fellow friend of the show, mister George Bagbee.
His tall Man Books series has been doing some amazing
stuff bringing books back into print from the nineteenth and
twentieth century related to all manners of American history. So
be sure to check out tall Man Books for all
of your historical book needs. All right, gentlemen, Well, as mentioned,
it was Saint Patrick's Day this week, but we're here
to talk about the Irish influence in America from the
very beginning.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I wanted to contribute to
this conversation is the Irish have always been trotted out
as to be like for some reason. You know, whenever
we were in high school, where we were in college,
this is always something that was brammed on our routes
all the time about when they were trying to shove
all the diversity nonsense in US and throughout the twenty tens.
You know, it's like, oh, well, you know, all these
other groups, you know, whether it's blacks, browns, what have
you were treated just like the Irish, because when the
Irish came to America, they were treated like shit. So
you white people, YadA, YadA, YadA. You know, it always
seems like the Irish have always been the low man
on the total pull whipping boy as it relates to
the concept of white race as in the American context.
So I don't know, Thomas, why don't you just you know,
take us away here. You know about the first waves
of Irish immigration into the United States, and you know
how how were they actually treated when they first arrived
in America.
Speaker 5: Well, there's a few things contributing to that narrative as
a whole pastiche of factors, some of which are grounded
and rather tragic history, some of which post a grievances
based on sectarian hostility, which in America until recently was
a very serious thing. And some of it too is
you know, the the as the number system was implemented
in earnest and these Cold War social engineering imperatives became
the top priority of the regime.
Speaker 4: There, you know.
Speaker 5: But that's part of it too, is finding a white
ethnic group to say, oh see, you know, these these
people aren't you know, black or brown, but they were
similarly oppressed by the same mechanisms. So it's all those things.
I I like the Irish a lot. I mean I once,
as a kid, I kind of am Irish, you know,
admittedly the Protestant side confessionally and culturally. And Chicago still
has a very large no Irish presence, kind of an
out presence. I mean, you go to places like Beverly
or Bridgeport, there's those you know, those are Irish communities,
and you know, the South Side Parade remains a big
deal here, and we still get Irish immigration. You run
into Irish guys and girls from the Old Country here,
you know. I mean, Chicago still has European immigration, and
not just from the Old East Block. You know, it's
what Chicago is sort of an unusual place in various regards.
But the first slaves in America were white. I'm not
talking about inventured servants, I mean slaves. Thomas Salagan into this,
so did of all people, Kim God. It was kind
of a silly guy, but he used to be a
bit more serious. And one of the things that put
the book White Cargo on the Map, which is a
really great book, was Jim God cited it in one
of his polemical texts that sold reasonably well, and quite literally,
the first slaves who set foot in American soil were
a couple hundred white children, and uh, it's believed they
were a combination of orphans from problem what was as
problematic classes. You know, this was uh after the first
poor laws were passed, to believe, and you know, a
lot of a lot, a lot of a lot of children,
as well as a lot of people who were considered
to be constitutional in corrigibles, you know, prostitutes, the people
who were consistently homeless or without gainful employment. They'd find
themselves in the colonies. And some people were just swept
up because they were young men with a strong back,
you know, who obviously needed to do backbreaking labor and
they didn't have anybody to advocate for them, so they
were simply hide. But most of those people were ethnically Irish, Okay,
so there probably was It's difficult. You can come up
with data on the raw numbers of white slaves from
the seventeenth century until the time the practice basically ceased,
but obviously it's difficult to conclusively determine what these people's
ethnic group was. You can go by last names, obviously,
but you know, in some cases this can be discerned
from the documentary record. In some cases it can't, but
it can be reasonably inferred that there was probably an
outsize percentage of ethnically Irish people among these white slaves, okay,
And there was always bad blood across the sectarian divide
because a lot of the founding stock of America. I'm
talking about the yoemanry. I'm not talking about rich men,
I'm not talking about man who had the benefit of
charter company contracts from the Crown. I'm talking about the
yeomanry that built you know, the South specifically, but also
had a discernibly outsized impacts on North A lot of
these people were Ulster Scott's whose conceptual horizon derived from
the experience of the Ulster plantation, which, in terms of
its brutality was not unlike the experienced people had in
the frontier, you know, contra the Cheyenne. It was incredibly brutal.
Some of these early Ulster plantation sites. They were walled
in like fortresses almost because the understanding was that the
indigenous element is going to assault and try to murder everybody,
and to be fair, not without cause. The Scottish settler
conquerors were not particularly kind to these people, you know,
so sort of baked in to the early American experience
was a hostility across the sectarian divide.
Speaker 4: And then you add to.
Speaker 5: That the Anglo Saxon mythology of America. We talked about
this a few weeks ago in Peace Pod. You know,
this mythology of America, and you find this specifically stated,
explicitly stated in the Federalist papers, particularly John Jay and
Hamilton emphasized this, you know, the myth being or the
mythology being, we're an angle Saxon people, We're a Germanic race.
We were subjugated by this corrupt monarchy that was essentially
Latin and culture and race, and they imposed this unnatural
Roman order on us. So we're reclaiming our birthright as
it existed. When you know, Britain was an angle Saxon land,
and you know, we're the chosen people to realize that destiny.
And here we are in this you know, land of
Providence's great bounty, you know. And I don't need to
point out the concrete particulars for people to understand that
that's at base a profoundly anti Catholic narrative.
Speaker 4: That's part of the early American identity is being anti Catholic,
you know.
Speaker 5: And that's why something that's failiaresting to me. And it
shows the conceptual literacy of the left. You know, the
Klan at its peak. I'm talking the nineteen twenties Klan,
the post birth of a nation clan. They were a
sectarian organization. Like don't get me wrong, I mean, they
believe the races should live separately, and they didn't believe
in miscegenation obviously, but this idea that they were obsessed
with keeping blacks in line or something that wasn't what
they were into. They were a sectarian organization. First, last,
and always, you know, America must remain a Protestant land
and more specifically a dissenter Protestant culture, you know. And interestingly,
and again this cuts the historical literacy of the left.
Trump's father was arrested for a fray sometime in the
nineteen thirties. And basically what had happened is Trump's dad
was this.
Speaker 4: Was this.
Speaker 5: Protestant Dutch type who was a builder and a landlord
in a New York city and he's getting leaned on
by a bunch of Irish police who were doing muscle
work for you know, Irish labor concerns. So old man
Trump calls in some clan support and they fight it out,
you know, and presumably the right palms are greased. And
the case went away with a you know, comparatively minor
citation for a fray. But it shows you on the
left has no idea the history of this country, even
you know, even stuff that's almost with in living memory.
Otherwise I would have made a huge deal about that,
you know. But they just they they don't understand the
actual conflict uh diets in America between populations, you know,
and uh but that but that wasn't odd, you know,
that situation.
Speaker 4: Trump's father was in apparently the sectarianism. You know, my.
Speaker 5: Uh my, my, my mom, who was born.
Speaker 4: Immediately after War two. She wasn't a bigot.
Speaker 5: She'd be she'd be nice to all kinds of people,
but I mean she casually say unflattering things about Catholics.
You know, Kennedy being elected was a huge deal, and uh,
it was a hell of a lot more significant than
some nobody like Obama being elected. For example, there was
no context to Obama being elected an Irish Catholic like Kennedy,
from the East Coast with deep roots and in you know,
not just the not not just the the East Coast establishment,
but also the you know, with his hands in Boston
machine politics and stuff. You know that that that that
would have been unthinkable even twenty years previously. You know,
So that's this kind of Pastichia thing sort of conspired
to create the you know, oh, in America up until
the nineteen twenties or thirties, you know, people would say that,
you know, no n words or Irish wolcome on this premises.
It becomes ridiculous, It becomes this this apocryphal victim story,
but it it does emerge from real tensions and even
you know, and again I think Irish people are great, and.
Speaker 4: The insular Celts are are.
Speaker 5: That there's something of a standard bearer of the Arian race.
I think, okay, that they're just incredible people. So I'm
not saying mean things about them, but they do as
something of an inferiority complex, I think, and maybe that's changing.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 5: When I was a kid and a teenager when unfortunately
the troubles are raging in Northern Ireland, you disembark at
Union Station and there'd be college aged guys and girls.
It's trying to hand you literature, you know, saying you know,
the British or genociding Ireland, you know, and Brits out
of Ireland. And this was something people are very passionate about,
you know, and being kind of like a Redneckish prod
with very angle phoning parents. That made an impression on me,
you know, maybe more than a one of other kids.
Speaker 4: It's interesting, go.
Speaker 1: Ahead, Yeah, it's it's interesting on that because at least
when I was growing up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like but again like with this.
Speaker 1: You know, diversity nonsense, We're growing up and everything. But
it always seemed like the h the only basically white
group you were allowed to say like, oh, I've got
some ancestry part of this. Like everybody always wanted to
be saying like, oh, I have a little bit of
Irish in me, or some Irish ancestry in me or
something like that.
Speaker 2: It was like the same thing as well.
Speaker 1: Everyone was trying to get like claim that they were
part of Native American or something.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I got like some engine blooded me.
Speaker 1: But nobody was ever clamoring to say, oh, like I've
got French in me, or I've got some English or
you know, something like that. Was always oh, like, well,
I'm a little bit Irish. And maybe that is true, man,
I know a lot of people have like Irish admixture,
especially if you're you know, Ellis Island Colish family come
from like New York or something like that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's interesting that I.
Speaker 5: Mean, I posted my I posted my twenty three and
me up, and it's interesting because.
Speaker 4: I'm actually like.
Speaker 5: Overwhelmingly like Anglo Irish, and uh, I've also got you know,
I'm basically uh, I'm I'm a Huguenot. Uh I'm Huguenot Ulster,
Irish and German, and uh, the my German granny was
of the aust Frus kind. So people, uh, people will
claim I'm Polish, or They'll claim that I'm a or
they'll claim that I'm like a petty and word, which
is funny. Uh even know it's nature Thomas.
Speaker 3: You mentioned Kennedy, Yeah, and his connections on the East Coast.
I would assume he had some pretty good connections back
in the Aisles, considering Joe was, you know, ambassador to
Great Britain.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, tremendously and even you know, uh, that old
show it's I mean, it's it's it's a pretty good show,
but I mean it's it's hokey gangster Tommy gun stuff.
But uh, you know Borderwak Empire. I'm going somewhere with this.
You ever watched Bordwak Empire.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, show.
Speaker 4: Knuckie Thompson.
Speaker 5: Despite his uh his very Protestant name in the show,
he's he's a Irish American guy. And he gets hold
of a bunch of Thompson s m g's that were
slated for the Western Front. But of course, you know,
the war ended, so he gets hold of against Simon
of him, and he gets somebody to the td I
r A because that's something he you know, he's he's
making sure there's a of uh a line of of
weapons and and and money going over there. And that
was that was a real thing. The reason why, the
reason why the Provos, the Provos had armalites. Basically this
was the US already got That's why, ironically, you know,
and a lot of loyalist murals. Uh it's massive gunmen
with collashnic coughs, and the Provos always holding armalites. You
think it would be the opposite, but it's because the
on the loyalist side they always they always had trouble
getting getting weapons, you know. So it was sort of
this hodgepodge of of of different platforms. But the Provos
had they had armalites in the sixties, you know, and
that's because they had a lot of a lot of
people here pulling for them, and you know a lot
of those people had money, you know, so I undoubtedly, Uh,
that's a toll other story like Roosevelt. Roosevelt wanted to
both antagonize the British and antagonize Joe Kennedy. That's why
he posted him to the UK, and as I I
think I mentioned in a World War Two series, Joe
Kennedy was convinced Church I might try to murder him
owing to the fact that, you know, Kennedy was solidly
a solid opponent of the New Dealers and he was
absolutely opposed to making more on Germany, as was the
Irish Republic. People conveniently forget that, you know.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 3: Uh but yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't think
the Jews have forgotten that.
Speaker 5: Well, no, but I'm talking about like normy h historians
and stuff like they got you know, No, of course not.
There's this tremendous enmity there in animosity. I mean, that's
one of the reason why Ireland has been targeted for destruction
in very discreet ways as his the Russian Federation in
Daryl Islam. You know, there's there's a there's a particular
animus there above and beyond the the socializering regime that is,
you know, there's intended to be imposed on on this
entire planet. But uh, yeah, I I'm sure. I'm sure
Joe Kennedy and and as well as uh JFK and
his brothers had substantial context in the Old Country that
that without doubt.
Speaker 3: You know what other TV shows tried to shoehorn in.
They actually tried to shoehorn in a Northern Ireland like
Arc of Bunch episodes was Sons of Anarchy.
Speaker 5: That shoe is so unbelievably stupid, like it okay, it's like,
I mean, for people haven't seen this show, I thought
it was a satire, Like I literally did.
Speaker 4: It's about this.
Speaker 5: It's about this anti racist liberal biker gang that gets
mad about racism and they name their gang after a
Jewish feminist because they sit around eating Emma Goldman and
they're ops. Are guys who try and get people into racism.
It's like imagine like imagine some like mentally defective Walmart
Ormy who like thinks he's Billy badass, but he also
spends all day watching Rachel Madow Like this is like
this is like the infantile fantasy he like masturbates over.
It's like PC principle stuff, but of the most infantile variety,
Like you can't make this up. And there's all these uh,
there's all these white and words. It's a group truth
in the rooky It's like bro anti racist bikers really
man really, so it figures. It figures, Uh, it figures
some like small hit writer would be like.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and then and then and then this northern Aland
and then the Bakers decide that they gotta feed children
in Africa. Like I like anybody if I ever, I mean,
I'm pretty discriminating in the company I keep and I
don't hang out with them cool people. But uh, if
I'm forced into a situation, I guess some at some
party or something, or you know, somebody's wife's birthday, and
some idiots sitle who's titled up to My Table says
he watches that show. I like refuse to speak to him.
You know, you might as well say that like you
suck a dick or something like. It's like, how do
you possibly watch that garbage?
Speaker 4: But it Uh.
Speaker 5: The other thing worse is people like the Sopranos and
like that that that show is so fucking stupid. It's
just like embarrassing, and it I don't know, I mean,
I you know, like I said, I want people think
I'm this big snob who it's not only sit around
watching you know, The Prisoner or the Original Welfer, just
cock Presents or something I watch. I watched some jump
food for the brain type shows too, you know, like
I said, I like Uh, I like Bortwalk.
Speaker 4: Empire, and you know, I what was it?
Speaker 5: I uh, you know, I mean, I'm not I'm not
saying that people shouldn't watch silly stuff too, but if
you if you watch that kind of like if I
just I find something particularly offensive.
Speaker 4: And and and and.
Speaker 5: Gay about this like PC principal kind of stuff, especially
when it's coded for like really really really stupid people,
I just do it. I don't know, it's it's cringey, man,
It's it's like it's it's inducent or something like laughing
at like uh.
Speaker 3: Bardwalk Empire. Boardwalk Empire was also pretty good for showing
the Jewish connection to uh Yeah.
Speaker 5: But it showed the tension to between them and the
black folks, and I liked. I like the subplot or
the narrative arc or the guy uh played by Michael
Pitt who he's a he's this disturbed World War One
vet and he carries uh, he carries around his Mark
seven trench knife, which is a ruthless knife that's the
coolest comment knife of all time. And it's clear uh
there's only a very brief scene where they show with
experiences in the trenches, and he clicks up with this guy.
He's rappy as this sniper who got shot in the face,
so he's horribly disfigured, and he's got just this metal plate.
He looks almost like a fan of the opera, and
so obvious nod to that, and the lawn chainey Fan
of the Opera is one of my very favorite movies.
But that that that's not Hollywood. If you stuff, they
quite literally give you a tin mask if you were
maimed like that, because obviously plastic surgery didn't really exist.
And you know, in lieu of terrifying children are making
people sick, you you know, you on a mask. And
I've got sort of a I'm a sort of I've
got a fascination for World War One and there's something
just incredibly horrific about it but also just fascinating. And
that's when that's when modern warfare truly arrived in my opinion.
I mean, arguably it was the crime year the war
be pin in the States. No, World War One was
a game changer across the entire spectrum. But I that
era too, I mean obviously, my my favorite decade is
nineteen fifties that you go out saying, but I think
the nineteen teams, the nineteen twenties are sort of a
are just sort of cool, you know, the optics and
everything like that. And I when I was stuck at
the airport, you know, that's an opportunity for one's mind
to wander, and you kind of played a great many
things prosaic and profound. But I harve of this fascination
for airship travel, especially because I came across years ago.
There was this GeoCities site that documented one of these,
like all the all the literature, promotion of literature and
everything else, like magazine spreads of the flight company or
the carrier that the Hinden Bird was part of, and
it's just amazing. And there was this luxurious dining room
with obviously a picture of the furor on the wall,
and you know, it's like something out of It's like
something out of science fantasy or something, you know, just
like floating on this airship. It's almost like an alternative future,
you know or something. So now was when when I
was straying at the airport, I was like, man, I
wish I could flow on an airship and not be
dealing with this airport nonsense.
Speaker 1: But you know, we air travel just used to be
so much more interesting than it is today.
Speaker 5: I was a little kid, it was cool and you
get they actually had good food. You could They did
give you, like an actual meal, and they'd give you
one or two options. They give you these egel he
rosied peanuts. They were a staple so much that cloaqually
people call them airline peanuts and they yeah, they'd make
sure your drinks for fresh and stuff. And it was actually,
like I remember, flying always kind of made me uncomfortable,
even when I was a kid, but it was mitigated
by the fact that it was it was cool. And
now it's saything but cool. But I forgive the forgive
the random tangent about airships, but I there's something just
fascinating about that whole era. I mean even more so so.
I guess if you were deposited in Chicago or Manhattan
in nineteen twenty nine, it would seem like you were
on some alien civilization, and way more than if you
found yourself in a different epoch. I think, because the
trajectory of technology and everything else, would it just seems
so different and so much of that technology, you know,
being a dead end, and new modalities were configured that
replaced them.
Speaker 1: But you can understand you can understand why when you
look at media of the time, like old like Loony
Tunes cartoons or something where they try to predict what
the future is going to look like, and it's just
not really remotely close to how it actually turned out.
It's like they're thinking, all what the future would be.
Speaker 5: No, it's fascinating. It's also well, that's why the Spruce Goose.
I guess you could say that some of these massive
like some of these massive aircraft like the seafied Galaxy
were in part like the DNA of this Bruce Goose
was in part in them. But it's the way Howard
Hughes and he had a better sense than a lot
of these a lot of these and great innovators did.
But he believed that essentially maritime commerce and naval warfare
was just going to disappear because everything was gonna be
take to the sky, you know. And his one of
his later drawings was of this massive like a basically
a flying aircraft carrier, some utoly massive aircraft and there
were a dozen like Air Superiority fighters that would disembark
from these platforms on its wings and uh, you know
obviously had some sort of nuclear cape built, like nuclear
tannons on it and stuff. I mean, it's something something
like insane kid would come up with. But it's like, okay,
like to your point, within that paradigm, it's like, yeah,
that makes sense. People thinking like, oh, no, the ocean
is going to be in the sky now, and you
know it's yeah, it's really it's really interesting. But yeah,
I forgive me. We were supposed to be talking with
the Irish Conversation exactly.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean we kind of alluded to this topic
a little bit earlier in the discussion, but you hear
this term get thrown around quite a bit even to
this day about the various demographics that came to make
up America and specifically the South.
Speaker 2: Thomas, can you explain to us.
Speaker 1: The origins of the Scots Irish?
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, as I said, the Northern Ireland has a
very complicated history and every deep heritage. You know, the
Ulster cycle is something I highly recommend Anglophone people, you know,
along with our Thurian lore and the King James Bible,
that's sort of the cultural canon. So there's a significance
in Northern Ireland beyond the sectarian and some of the
more tragic aspects of its history.
Speaker 4: You know, there's.
Speaker 5: A a lot of the route, if you want to
think of it as a lot of the founding populations
of uh Ireland and and and the British isles have
at least partial origins there. But we're talking about the
Scots Irish or the Ulster Scotts.
Speaker 4: There was always.
Speaker 5: Ireland Ireland es sense. He proved to be unconquerable, okay,
owing to a number of reasons, including the fact that
this hostile island quite literally on Britain's flank, that was
loyal to Rome. We represented an existential threat, you know,
particularly in uh Eras when seapower was everything. You know,
there were there, it was it was imperative to dominated.
And also there's this very little arable land in Britain.
I mean, Britain's a rocky island. You know, it's the
same it's the same quagmire you know that the Japanese
of always had to endure. I mean, obviously Britain's not
volcanic like the Japanese home islands are. But you know, uh,
the solution, as it were, to uh the problem that
the English crown had was to deploy this colonizer Yalomen
population and the form of the Scots to the Ulster
what was to become the Ulcer Plantation. And despite what
you see in movies like Brave Hearts, the Scots and
the l Wish, their relationship is complicated. I think of
it in some ways it's almost the relationship of the
of the English to the old the people who became
the Ulcer Scotts. It's almost like that between the Japanese
and the Koreans. It's name pergant analogy. But you know,
these uh, this this settler population was primarily Scottish dissenter
Protestants who were always sort of the shock element of
what became the British Empire later on.
Speaker 4: They were a warrior, ye, women.
Speaker 5: Re re cast and uh, you know, there also were some
ethnically English people who settled the Ulcer plantation as well,
but the majority were ethnically, culturally and confessionally Scottish. And
this touched off a century's long conflict paradigm.
Speaker 4: And the.
Speaker 5: But it's interesting, okay because there's it seems an odd uh,
it seems it seems an odd example when it seems
highly discreete and anecdotal. But there's there's something significant here.
The only loyalist paramilitary group that was never compromised by
Special Branch was Red Red Hand Commando. Red Hand Commando
would tag their murals in Gallic. They are the only
loyalist who did that. And there's this brand of esoteric
loyalism that emphasizes deep insular, Celtic, racial and ethnic roots,
which isn't.
Speaker 4: I mean, which isn't wrong? You know, I mean.
Speaker 5: Scottish people, I mean the Lowland Scots are descended from Picts,
apart from Vikings and Danes and in part from you know,
Cels So there's a complicated relationship that the Ulster Scotts
have to Ireland. And also, you know, there's a reason
why I talk about the sort of dissenter prad diaspora,
like colloquially the woodpile. By the way, to some idiot
the other days in the comments section that I'm an
for using the term peckerwood because that's a prison term
for the nineteen eighties. No, it's not it literally, isn't
it dates to the well before the Wark in the States,
look it up. But the aside from that, I talked
about the woodpile of the ass buh Oh to a
combination of dissenters being pogrammed, you know, in France, in
the Benlux countries, you know, else around the continent, there
was a lot of migration of Huguenots, of Dutch, of Swiss,
of Germans. Two places like South Africa, two places like Ulster.
You know where they'd be welcomed. But you know, not
just because they were brothers and sisters in the in
the faith, who you know, we're welcome in the congregation.
But these populations needed people who could fight and weren't
afraid of death and weren't afraid of violence. So there's
an interesting ethnic mix within Northern among the Northern Ireland's Protestants,
and again the majority are Ulster Scott's or Scottish. They're
all wrongly culturally Scottish, I mean, that's the dominant cultural modality.
But the you know, the the novel and the film
Resurrection Man Pete and I actually reviewed it. That's one
of my favorite pieces of conflict literature from the Troubles.
What the secondary antagonist is this uh, he's this loyalist
hitter named Darky Larsh and he's a Huguenot and his
street name is Darky because he's a swarthy French guy.
But that wasn't that wasn't uncommon, you know, you'd they're
the be loyalists, uh, with clearly anglified German names or
Huguenot names, you know, just like you just like you
find in South Africa, just like you find in Australia,
New Zealand, you know.
Speaker 4: And that's.
Speaker 5: That's something, uh, that very very strong. The center and
outsider faith, frankly was one of the things that bound
these people together. And that's one of the reasons I
think we're an ill understood people, just the centers generally
about Ulster Scott's.
Speaker 4: Especially because on the one hand, we're not.
Speaker 5: There's we don't we don't act like Mediterranean people do,
you know, for example. But we are Clannish, but in
sort of a different way than people think of Greek
people or Italian people, or even or even our Irish
Catholic brothers are. You know, it's an odd it's an
odd sort of it's an odd kind of individualism and
hostility to organizational models of authority that that's co extent
with with a kind of deep clannishness, you know, and
people don't really understand that.
Speaker 4: And I think that's uh. I think that's the other
reason too.
Speaker 5: Every why where the favorite We're the favorite target of
the accusation of being racist. I mean it's like a
meaningless term obviously, but on the one hand, people look
at us as Okay, you're the constant individuals and things,
and you know, you you kind of come at people
as they are, but then in very punctuated and conspicuous ways.
You know, it's like we put our own first, and
that rubs a lot of people the wrong way. I mean,
not that care of them. I think that's part of.
Speaker 2: It, you know, yeah, for sure. What do you think, Pete, I'm.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm my my dealings. I grew up around
around the Irish. I grew up in a an Irish
neighborhood in the Bronx that was transitioning out of Irish.
There used to be a huge clan in the Highbridge
section around Yankee Stadium, and they eventually started moving to
the North Bronx and just being around them they you know,
I mean I you know, my first crush was on
an Irish girl because you know, that's that's what was there.
And I just thought they were they were insanely clannish.
I mean they would they were kind of people wh
would fight with each other all day and then if
someone just looked at one of them wrong, they all
just jumped in and they all just jumped to.
Speaker 2: UHF fight, don't they Yeah?
Speaker 3: Oh oh fight and drink is uh I mean that
is not a that is not a stereotype at all.
But you know, I also, growing up in New York,
I had some dealings with the NYPD. I know that
must be a shocker to most people. So I'm dealing
mostly You're dealing mostly with Irish cops. And yeah, I mean,
I honestly they were. They were some of the best
friends I ever had in my whole life, and most
a lot of the guys I went to high school
with I can think of one in particular, I'm not
going to name them who became NYPD and then went
on to even bigger and better things in the NYPD.
And they always treated me as you know, like like
a brother. So yeah, I've never had I joke about
the I make as many jokes about the Irish as
anybody else does. But you know, I also make jokes
about Pollock's and I make jokes about everybody because I
grew up in a time where race jokes were just
racial jokes were just what you what you threw at
each other and you know, until someone until someone got
mad and started throwing hands. But yeah, I mean, growing
up where I did and being around the Irish, you
just couldn't help. But notice what was the uh the
old thing is about like how close Italian, how close
Italians think they are that they wish they were as
close Irish Italian brothers were as close to each other
as Irish brothers are.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I like the Irish. It's my birthright to make
fun of the Irish, like you know, so you know,
but I mean, I I know, I mean, like I said,
I mean in a real sense, you know, like I
am Irish, just not in the way that you know
we mean, and we're talking about Irish Catholics.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I you know, it's all.
Speaker 3: But I grew up mostly the ones I grew up
around were Irish Catholics.
Speaker 5: Irish America, and that's what we're talking about.
Speaker 4: That's why I book called The Other Irish.
Speaker 5: And you know it's about the Ulster Scots in America,
you know, because we're not we're not Irish in that sense,
you know, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: You're dragged away, dragged away and uh thrown on an
island another another island.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Well it's uh if you want to, if you want
a food bar or target area and uh, then colonize it.
Speaker 4: You drop up the Ulster Scots there.
Speaker 5: You know, if they can't they can't, they can't drink
it or fuck it, they'll kill it.
Speaker 3: Well, what was your I know you've had you've had
mild criticisms of I'll be unseeed, what is there anything
in there about the Ulster, about Ulster and the Irish
that Uh, yeah, it's.
Speaker 5: It's been a few years since I read it. That's
one of those books I refer to periodically. It's been
it's been probably three or four years since I've read
it in its entirety. I mean, it's it's mostly about
it's mostly about Anglophone dialects and cultural habits and conceptual
horizons and how those broke down and then for a
for a small country, and and and and a and
a small ethnos. There's a lot of diversity in England,
especially consider that the Dane Lock Louis cous swathed through it.
You know, like I told you, like I ended up
in ah when I lived outside in the cost walls
like a week, which was incredible when I was a
young man. And then after walking englessly, we came across
this ancient village and uh it was a bunch of
super tall people who looked like Rutger Howard or something.
It was like a bunch of people looked like our
friend Anders, you know. And uh it was And you know, it's.
Speaker 4: There's many, there's not one England, you know, it's not
even getting yet.
Speaker 5: And Albion Seed. That's the main thrust of it. It's
very much an ethno cultural and anthropological study of of
Anglo America. There has I'm sure that there's some treatment
of the Irish in particularly the the Ulster Scotts, and
you know, especially because no I mean basically too the
high the high Church.
Speaker 4: Cast.
Speaker 5: Who's going to look at it that way, People like
Robert E. Lee, you know, the Virginia Planner aristocracy. I
mean they were.
Speaker 4: They were.
Speaker 5: Their background was Anglo Latin you know, Stonewall. One of
the reasons he was beloved by the man despite his
severity and the fact that he you know, he was
a teetotaler and he he didn't get chummy with anybody,
but I mean he was he was one of their
tried you know, he was an ulster. Scott Calvin is
through and through. But yeah, I mean, albon Seed is
a great book, but it's not It doesn't deal in
any choice substantial capacity with the subject matter we're on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of those ones that I know is quite
beloved in our circles. But ye, and if people want
to know more about that, they can listen to the
early episodes of American Spirits for they Delvin too.
Speaker 2: Albeiton Seed, why don't we go over.
Speaker 1: The waves of Irish and in the United States, it's
definitely been one of the more consistent ones throughout the
last several hundred years.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know, ever, one of the ones that was.
Speaker 1: Talked about in our circles quite a bit is the
fact that Abraham Lincoln imported a bunch of them to
go a fight and a fight in the Civil War. So,
I mean, Irish have been coming here for a long
long time.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I there. And like I said, the I
mean the point of the first the first slaves in
America were white and substantially Irish. I mean, the Irish
have been here as long as as long as any
heritage Americans have been. And it's also it's it it
becomes confused as well, because at least I'm not trying
to be crass or something the old school terms involved
where you talk about the lace curtain Irish and the
shanty Irish, because there really was a class divide, you know,
and on the East Coast especially.
Speaker 4: I mean even I.
Speaker 5: Haven't hung around Boston since the early two thousands, like
the very early two thousands, and even then, you know,
you had a real obvious cast divide that seemed weird
for America, you know. But be as it may, there
were upper class irishmen and women who blended in essentially
seamlessly with the Anglophone elite, and nobody looked askance at them,
or viewed them as inferiors or somehow not white or something.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: So there is and I mean, to be fair, if
you're talking about European immigration, Western European immigration that remains
insular over generations here the genetic distance between aristocrats and
commoners is is substantial. They're almost a different ethnic group,
you know, which you want to look at that way,
and not just a habit and sometimes language, but even
in terms of you know, their their their biological and
genetic profile. So there wasn't that, there wasn't a single
there wasn't a single Irish America, you know. I guess
That's what I'm getting at. And the big UH. It's
not a simplification, but it's illustrative, I think, because it
it was such a breach with precedents, and you know,
the advent of uh, the advent of high speed travel,
you know, by c rail and what was then nascent
air travel. You know, the twentieth century changed everything, and
that's why immigration got essentially cut off completely with the
nineteen twenty four Act, you know, and that endured for
forty years. So we're basically talking about and I'm not
I don't know the meaningful inputs on the top of
my head, and immigration patterns aren't one of my primary concentrations.
But you had consistent immigration from Ireland really from just
after the Westphalian Peace really until the first decade of
the twentieth century, and then it abruptly stopped for forty
years for practical purposes. That's the ninety sixty five Act was.
So it's fancying if you read the legislative history and the.
Speaker 4: Minutes from a.
Speaker 5: Congress in session, where you've got these proponents of the bill,
including including the always grotesque Teddy Kennedy, insisting up and
down that the then extent you know, racial and ethnic
balance isn't going to be upset because this bill is
nearly tailored to preserve the status quo in terms of
overall percentage is represented of of these different populations. If
it trays a real naivete and a real perfidy depending
on who we're talking about. But that was and I mean,
don't get me wrong, Kennedy, Teddy, I mean was a
It was a particularly grotesque character and a and he
was as bad as any you know, as any arch
race trader today. That uh, parasitically, you know, subsists off
the text players. But uh, the the Cold War, the
fix was in. Because of the Cold War, Okay, there
there would have been the racial core of America would
have been undermined by way of immigration policy manipulation to
realize the intended effect, you know, that was that that
something is kind of lost in the trying to discuss
these things with normans. If the reason social media anymore.
But it's just these people they've got these just simpletons ideas,
like as if the nineteen sixty five memoration or formats
they talked about it was like a text build or
something like, oh, there should have been based people who said, no,
we won't vote that way. It's said, you know, you
don't get it, like this was going to happen because
what was at stake, what the conflict diet was, was
you know, between billions of people living under a hostile
competitor system and the free world as it was called.
Speaker 3: I mean, and.
Speaker 5: And that actually had a context back then, and the
conflict diet was to determine the configuration of goal. You
can't win that struggle if you say this system is only.
Speaker 4: For white people. I mean, obviously.
Speaker 5: That's why the critical juncture was, you know, the the
Second World War, because that that's obviously what facilitated the
aforementioned conditions. But this this idea that you know, it's
liberals or like an absence of beast people or something
who just weren't there to stop bad legislation. It's it's
incredibly infantile that people think that way. Yeah, it's not
to say that there wasn't a better way to manage
that situation. Obviously there was an obviously attempts at forced
integration at literal gunpoint. I mean that that's that's preposterous,
That that's the that that's that's an absurd iteration of
self defeating tyranny. That's that that's as ridiculous as anything
the Soviets did to their population, you know, I mean,
that's what and that's to go to our feel It's
something I try and emphasize the people when they claim
everything sucks, everything is lost that you know. I mean,
it's like, do you realize how catastrophically this regime failed.
Like we're literally gonna point guns at children and teenagers
to force them into proximity to each other. Then when
black people don't act like we want them to, we're
gonna lock a million of them in prison. Like that's
some like great big windew I mean this, this could
not have failed more catastrophically.
Speaker 2: You know, it is always a white pill.
Speaker 1: When are you some of us younger guys have conversations
with people who've been in this thing longer than we have,
and it's really important to be put in that perspective of, oh, just.
Speaker 2: We just live in such interesting.
Speaker 1: Times compared to now, where I can actually talk to
people who have some understanding as to why the situation
we're in right now has so many problems and the
fact that, like the regime right now is just burning
credibility and an unprecedented scale.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, we've got.
Speaker 1: Our problems obviously, but it is important to have that context,
and I think a lot of young people miss out
on that if they don't have this kind of communication
between the generations, which was something that was just way
more common for anyone else in any period in history,
but now, because of you know, just modernity, this communication
between generations is something you actually have to proactively seek out.
Speaker 5: No, no, it's affirmative, and I mean, don't get me wrong,
I think the point of it. I mean I'm blessed that.
I mean, I'm blessed that I'm want to sound like
some sentimental slob, but I'm blessed I have friends like
you guys on the Fellas.
Speaker 4: I mean, I really am.
Speaker 5: That's incredible, you know what, I feel really loved, and
I can't emphasize that. I don't know how how great
that is, how humbling it is, but it I you know,
and I wouldn't want to be a young person for
a billion dollars. Being young is really tough, man. It's
I mean, asigned my physical health, being poor. I my
life is a freaking cake walk compared to when I
was nineteen or twenty two or something.
Speaker 4: Being young is really.
Speaker 5: Really, really hard, man, And these days it's it's particularly
screwed up. Yeah, you know, I realized that, and especially
young guys loving to start families and stuff. I mean
that that's always a challenge, but just just peculiar challenges
the these days. I realized that, and I don't minimize that.
But on the other hand, the fact that there's yeah,
there's literally millions of people who look at the regime
as a hostile actor and matters are openly discussed that,
you know, twenty five or thirty years ago would be
considered just an utterly unacceptable perspective. That's incredible. And also
just at street level, I you know, on the one hand,
like I was talking to my my my barber we're tired,
so I'm looking for the regular barber and I his
sister in law or his cousin.
Speaker 4: Is this Colombian lady.
Speaker 5: Yes, she's actually quite attractive, so it's nice and there's
nothing funny going on there. But it's if you're an
old guy like me, it's important to talk to women
sometimes otherwise get weird. I it's appropriate. She's like my age,
you know. But so you're talking about she was heself
was wearing a rock t shirt. She was talking and
she's like, yeah, She's like, you remember Clark and Belmont
was always hopping, and you know, there was this whole subculture,
you know, like punkin donuts days and stuff. So you're
talking about that, you know, and she's like yeah, She's like,
you know, I went there not long ago with a girlfriend,
and you know, it's like any other neighborhood now.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, yeah, I mean she's right, Like.
Speaker 5: On the one hand, that kind of rawness and greediness
has disappeared from a little hoods. But on the other hand,
in those days when I was going to shows and stuff,
I have to plot my movements to not get my
ass kicked or worse, because on site, you'd get hurt,
you know, in a black hood. And to be fair,
like I said before, if you were some black guy
like talking shade or causing trouble in a white hood,
something bad would happened to you. Like that's unthinkable today, man,
like I wouldn't you know, Uh, there's a grand total
Pilsen in little Village are I'm not transhing those hoods.
I know peoples from there and I like them. And
there's there's acting nothing wrong with being from there, that
you're local, but that if you don't got business there,
you really shouldn't go there. But other than that, there's
nowhere I won't go, man, because nothing noth's gonna happen.
No one's gonna I mean, if you're a single woman,
obviously that's totally different. But you know, if you're a man,
and it's nothing gonna happen, you know, like like black
pools are just gonna move on you in attack mode
just because. But I mean, in nineteen ninety two, you
better believe they would. You know, there's a reason why
Bush deployed the Marine Corps just back from combat in
Iraq and l A p d LA County Sheriffs National
guard FBI. They formed this, uh, they formed this task
force to quite literally engage you know, the crips in
the bloods because they were gonna assault, Uh, they were
gonna assault downtown LA, you know. And they said, you know,
one eighty seven, all cops, we're gonna we're gonna waste
white people. We're gonna burn the fuck down, you know.
And uh, some of the Marines and this police and
PMC task force went to war in the street.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: It was a race war, and that that's unthinkable now,
that that that would never happen now, you know, I've
told youngsters about that, and they think I'm exaggerating, And
then I pulled up on YouTube and I'm like, look,
I mean like I didn't make this up, you know,
like I don't make shit up. And also I I
don't exaggerate, you know. But it was a totally different
planet back then, man, And I I know a lot
of people, I mean, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 4: I the process of the history is what it is.
Speaker 5: Sitting around saying violence is always bad or we've always
got to be afraid of war, that that's the wrong
way to look at it. But you know, you also
shouldn't glorify these things. And I, you know, black folks
being in in race war mode and us being at
each other's throats and me having to plot my movements
unless I'm you know, like five deep with some friends
who are armed.
Speaker 4: I don't want to live like that. Man that's fucked
up and them old.
Speaker 5: I didn't think it was cool when I was seventeen.
Speaker 4: It's not cool, man, you know.
Speaker 5: I If that makes me a big pussy or whatever, fine,
but I people who talk that way didn't have to
deal with it.
Speaker 2: I maintained, Yeah, very true.
Speaker 1: Indeed, you know, I'm a I'm the subject in the
topic of criminality and violence and whatnot.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know, I'm a movie.
Speaker 1: Uh there will be blood, especially quite a bit in
our circles. But also we were mentioning this a little
bit at the start, with our mention of Boardwalk Empire
about the Irish connection to organized crime.
Speaker 2: In the United States.
Speaker 1: Why don't we chat on that for a little bit,
and then we cannot power through some of these super chats
and call the night so Irish gangs and whatnot.
Speaker 4: I mean, my.
Speaker 5: As I understand it, in if Chicago is a totally
different gangster ecosystem than on either coast. It's totally different,
you know. I know on the East Coast there's this
there's this true crime classic called The Westies. Back when
I mean now, Hell's Kitchen is like any other bougie hood.
I mean probably actually it's probably more upscale than a
lot of places now. But you know, until until the
early nineties, Hell's Kitchen was a very tough place. And
I don't I irige whenever the majority there in terms
of are they read every plurality among the ethnic groups,
but they had outsized clout. And this book called The
Westies is fascinating. Like if you want, if you need
to like a gangster fix of like real like real
gangster ship, you should read Dead City by Shane Stevens
and read The Westies.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: Again, The Westies is a I'm sure there's some camping
in it, but uh, I mean that the guys who
it's about were all real guys, you know, but I
and interestingly, one of uh the uh the Gatti crew,
who's the real kind of power behind which was uh
Frank the Chico. In my opinion, they fucked with the Westies.
And that's one of the ways they got things done.
It's because the Westies were feared and they they were
they were they were kind of becased like they did
kill anybody. They didn't care. They were afraid of anybody.
And like I said, I don't know the East Coast
directly on, you know it from like gangster lid and stuff.
But the Irish are a wrap for being serious pipe hitters.
And obviously here just like in you know people something,
MPD being deep with Irish. Chicago p D is in
Chicago Fire Department is deep as fuck with them, and
I like, I, uh, one of my buddies from law school,
I'm not gonna drop his name because he's a big
shot lawyer now, but he like in Chicago. If you
my alma mater is John Marshall Law School and the
Core Boys Scholarship. Did this the scholarship and if you're
a cop and you can you got the grades and
you also had scored again into John Marshall Law School,
you get a free ride. So, uh, my buddy was
a was a cop and that's how he he got
into John Marshall with a free a full ride. But
he he left the police force when we graduated, and
he uh, he went on to work in this big,
high flying firm then became a judge, and that's like
a not unusual trajectory you know here, stuff like that.
But the in the outfit, you know, Chicago outfit, it
was always different than the East Coast mafia. However, the
the kind of core element was Italians, and there were
plenty of Irish who would be the equivalent of made
guys in terms of their clout and the percentage the
of a of action they control and stuff. But the
Irish kind of more did their own thing here and
especially on the South Side until very recently, like until
like my generation you still had. I mean, the color
banging era is long gone. I mean, gang bang is
totally different than it used to be, and it know
it for all practical purposes, it's kind of ceased to exist.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: I realized there's guys who like say, like, yeah, we're
beds or gds or vice lords. So I mean a
lot of that. A lot of that though, is just
kind of like wrecking crews that that are like branding
themselves or when they're like the hood they're from or
like what their dad or their uncle was into or whatever.
But they're through the color banging era. There there was
there was white mobs here, which people think is weird,
but I'm not talking about and most of them are
actually like white power coded, you know.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 5: It wasn't like wig or stuff. But especially on the
South Side, you'd have a lot of guys who you know,
they might be clicked up with them. They may clicked
up and say like the South Side popes or whatever.
But there's a deserted there was a descernibly like ethnically
Irish branding sort of shot through it, you know, stuff
like that. And then there's a I'm not gonna name her,
but I knew I knew this chick from the South
Suburbs because I I knew this kind of hood Spanish
chick from planes and this plains of the suburbs. But
it's kind of odd, and especially then, it was sort
of in transition, this this plane's chick. She wasn't my
girlfriend or anything, but like we we'd hang out and
like kick and stuff. And she was friends with the
South suburban Irish chick who would hang out with us sometimes.
And her her brother was a very feared dude, and
he didn't claim any particular mob. But it was him
with a bunch of Irish guys who and their name
just like rang out. You know, there's a lot of
that kind of stuff, you know. Like I said, I
was like an Orang shore guy. I mean, I I
grew up in a real nice hood and I didn't
play like, I didn't gang bang or anything like that,
you know, but I I know a lot of people
who were in that kind of world these days, you know,
to your guy's point, the the Irish and man reel planet.
I mean, there's Irish dudes in in our faction and
in like Mike Hadrey who are local but they're you know,
they're they're law of iding guys, and or at least
there dudes who don't gang bang and stuff. And when
I've been when I found myself in places like Beverly
or lake Bridge Sports or back in the day, Wrigleyville
is a really interesting part the town. And the old
bar of the Barney Stone is people who like any
genic Chicago and can tell you about Dad I the
old lady Margot who are in the Barney Stone, the
girl who ten bar there for was this Irish chick
was the South and Irish Chicken Anne and Anne literally
lived above the barney stone and like when I get
this up totally, this was like twenty five thirty years ago.
That was the blarney is something might hangout and I'd
get you know, if I if I had old ones
to drink, like Margot Anne and the tell me like, yeah,
go crash upstairs on Anne's couch.
Speaker 4: You know what I did many times.
Speaker 5: But obviously the result a buntil like North Side Irish
roys like getting out of that bar and in and
out of like Anne's apartment. You know, dudes, dudes and
girls who you know were like literally police as well
as who were like out and out gangsters.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 5: So like I got to a I got to a
cross section of the of the North Side Irish pretty well.
But again, like they that clash, this was there man,
you know, they they'd be aware of when people outside
of the outside of the tribe are on deck. But
I realized it spun this into a longer story of
the head to be. But what I got from these
guys and girls is, like I said, it like a
lot of a lot of a lot of unspoken familial connections,
a lot of a lot of neighborhood ship that outsiders
wouldn't understand.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: It's not like they were all gangbanging under the same
set or something or like, uh, they were rapping like
a folks or people mob or something. It was like, yeah,
we're the North Side Irish from here, and my dad
is this guy, my uncle's that guy, and my grandma
is this lady who's also this lady's cousin. So I
click up with these guys and this is what we're into,
if that makes any sense.
Speaker 1: Definitely, I can't really relate and that extent, but I
mean all the Irish folk and I'm ran into my days.
I mean I went to an Irish Catholic school when
I was growing up, and so yeah, definitely a lot of.
Speaker 5: They think it was weird that you're did I think
it was weird that you're a bird that can talk?
Speaker 2: Yeah, very yes.
Speaker 3: You know you know what's odd is I went to
a Catholic school that was almost one loss.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that's like they became yeah that then
the desegregation days, there was places like they had here
two like about a bunch of about a bunch of
white pride kids who ended up in in in the
Catholic system. I mean, we're we're thin on the ground here.
Somebody didn't it was more in like outlying suburbs and stuff.
But yeah, that that's a weird phenomena that I.
Speaker 3: Well, it's you know, if you have a good prep school,
if then you're you're not really caring that that they're
going to have to go to mass everyone. So no,
the education is so good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I could definitely attest to that with the high school.
I went to Catholic and they basically took anybody. They
took anybody who could pay.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, no, And I the I went to a
Catholic college, man, I went to the older Chicago, and
I mean it's I went there for a reason. I mean,
part of it was in those days, you know, you
needed library access. I mean this this was when internet
was nansense. But they you know, they had they they
were not remotely woke. They had you could study platable
theory in a dedicated capacity, you know. And and I
the academic culture back then was very amenable to what
I was into. You know, I know, I agree experience
only older man, I think I think back on I
think back in college fondly and like, I think you're
kind of a goof if you think about I think
high school was awesome anyway. But I mean I I
never think finally like about high school.
Speaker 3: Like at all, but like I didn't like it at all.
And yeah, I went to school. I went to school
when the priests would put hands on you and like
smack the shit out of you.
Speaker 4: Oh I'm sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I got spat once when I was in
middle school and I didn't even deserve it. It wasn't
actually me who was causing the promise of some other kid.
Speaker 5: But yeah, anyway, No, I I don't I don't think
it's weird for people outside the faith to go to
a Catholic school. I mean that, yeah, I And yeah, no,
I'm doing plenty of guys and girls who weren't that
that wasn't their heritage, but they went to Catholic schools.
Speaker 4: Yeah that's not No.
Speaker 5: I like you like people, man, I mean, people get
the wrong idea because you know, like like Pete said,
you know, making fun of people's heritage, it just is
something we do, especially if you're you know, a Cantanna
Orus gen x or but I you know, I mean,
I mean, shit, man, I Chicago is my home, all
the all the all my closest friends on the ground
here and including the OGC guys who we all love.
I mean, there are a bunch of Catholic dudes, man,
you know, like that speaks for itself. I'm the oddball
on dick you know. And it's not it's not even
a thing, man, Like, nobody makes me feel weird or anything.
Speaker 1: And I that might be one of the things I
hate most in this entire sphere is the various Catholic
versus Protestant versus you know, pagan debates that we have
in these circles. It's just all this it's just horribly
unproductive and just doesn't exist when you're actually in the
real world.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean that's why. Yeah, I I gotta assume.
Speaker 5: I gotta assume these guys that don't leave their house
or if they do, and that's what they're really like.
It's like, well, you're you're a big at a dickhead,
you know, Like I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't hang out with people like that,
you know.
Speaker 5: No, You're absolutely right, And I that's what, like I said,
I obviously if I don't know, people will I'm not
gonna come at them with with ethnic or or or
sectarian jokes. But I mean among friends, I mean, I
you know, it's just part of how we relate, man.
I mean I I take as much shit as I
dish outut Man, if you make fun of you, I mean,
the fellas make fun of you all the time, you know,
like I it's just part of It's part of the
ongoing hazy of a you know, life as a the
male of the species.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And it's a part of masculinity that people just like forget.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like guys relate.
Speaker 1: It's like that's how I know you're cool if you're
one of my dudes, Like I can make fun of you.
But if some guy in the street was to come
up and say something nasty and like, Okay, I'm gonna
beat the shit up, you know, it's.
Speaker 3: Like gonna it's not a great weekend. Thomas called me.
I said I wanted to go get some sleep, and
Thomas called me a lazy spaniard going and take the.
Speaker 5: Y Yeah, and uh yeah, it's all Uh it'd be
it would be sus as funk. If you know, somebody
took that the wrong way.
Speaker 4: I mean it.
Speaker 5: Admittedly, you know you've got to be you can't get
overly familiar with people. But that's one of the nice
things about you know, going to the lake and and
seeing you guys and all the fellas. I mean, that's
that's legitimate the house of my year because it's like
a big family reunion and you know, like I, you know,
I'm cool with all of them guys. Man, it's you know,
we're like family. That's dope. Speaking of being a lazy
h being a lazy Iberian.
Speaker 1: I uh, yeah, gonna we're gonna wrap up here.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's getting a super chants and then I'm gonna
raise up.
Speaker 2: Yes, that good.
Speaker 1: I need I need Dug to put the access of
the magic Google doc in the chat here. Second, we've
got all them super chats and then we'll get rolling
on that.
Speaker 2: So up there we go, perfect, thank.
Speaker 1: You, all right, scrolling up to the top, we've got
Adrian Shepherd sends us two bucks. He says, triple seven
Mafia salute, Hail the o GC salute. Well, thank you sir,
you are a real American. All right, Moving on again,
he sends another five bucks, says, how should Americans take
pride in their own history slash war traditions given the
events of the twentieth century, without becoming derascinated but not zogged.
That's a five dollars. That's like a whole stream.
Speaker 5: My my, my heardag has nothing to do with some
hostile government fighting, you know, waging waging war on Europe
and alliance with the communists like I uh, I were
the were the bloodstained banner on my person every single day.
Speaker 4: That's my courtage.
Speaker 5: The government's gotta nothing to do with me, you know,
Like why why don't even take I didn't even like that,
Like I said, like, my cultural canon is stuff like
the King James Bible and our thory in war and
you know, the the the the tradition of you know,
the the ulster yal woman remn.
Speaker 1: That's I think, you know, not a rag on this
guy here. But I think this is another problem that
a lot of young dudes have. Yeah, and I imagine
this is just something that happens in any time and place,
not just artists, even though our time has some other issues.
But guys, you're gonna get through life or you're gonna
have like some kind of bil inconsistencies or whatever what
have you, and like as it relates to I don't
want to use this like gay leftist term like your
identity or something like this, but like why are you
gonna have like your history or something be compromised by
what's currently going on with you know, Zog or something
like that.
Speaker 2: Man. I mean like that's like history is my history?
Speaker 5: You know, well, yeah, given to Caesar what Caesar is due.
And I made the point of people too, especially when
people are like they're taking down this monument.
Speaker 4: It's like, I don't want Zog fucking with my heritage.
I don't want them dirtying it with with with their
monuments or anything else. You know, it has nothing to
do with them, you know.
Speaker 5: And this idea that you've got to live through, you've
got to live through regime institutions is bullshit. Somebody of
the dames is telling me it's like a tragy under
the boy Scouts, Like why are you fucking with the
boy Scouts? You know, I can even like half a
dozen of our people's institutions that teach you know, youngsters
like you know, camping skills, outdoors skills. You know, there's
that communitarian experience you know between you know, the other
kids between the fathers, you know, we get together. Let
up shoot, like like why why would you go through
some regime institution for that? And just like kind of
hope that it doesn't, you know, trying socially engineer your
kids away from you know, their own their own heritage,
Like it shouldn't even come to that. You shouldn't even
bother with it. You know, you should secede.
Speaker 1: There you have it, Moving on. Christopher Burke, since us
five bucks in a salute. Thank you, Sarah, you are
a real American.
Speaker 3: Three Americans?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there we go. There he is.
Speaker 1: We got solid Snake nineteen sixty four, who was not
the first super shower tonight? How dare you, sir? Unacceptable?
Get your cardboard box out of storage and steep behind it?
Alliance man? All right, he sends us ten bucks. Eating gents,
I'm only a smidge Irish, with most of me being
German and Norwegian by blood, but I must be making
my Irish ancestors proud by being Catholic, loving Irish whiskey
and my love of redheads. Well, who doesn't love a redhead?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 4: Come on?
Speaker 1: Hopefully I didn't insult in the actual irishman. Then maybe listening.
Ha ha, Yeah that's the other thing too. I mean,
Irish whiskey is great. Everyone loves the loves their Jamison man.
Speaker 4: I mm hmm.
Speaker 5: You know Jameson is good with Jamison, makes a really
good Irish rover add a little bit of Bailey's. Well, yeah,
it's awesome, but uh, Jamison does it. It's it's it's
it kicks like a mule man like Mills is because
it's so smooth. No, you said it's it's smoother than
a prom queen's thighs and not nearly as whiskey.
Speaker 4: I don't like that.
Speaker 3: Well, I got the movie reference.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Son of Haster sends us five bucks. Oh no,
or he says, uh, oh, time to decide if I'm
Irish or Italian or Slavic.
Speaker 5: Well, I mean it's just like deciding, like what kind
of black person you were to say him black?
Speaker 1: We got a hammer. Rain sends us ten bucks, says
thank you guys, Well, thank you, sir, skip them two
twenty one of our top superchatters as always, sends us
fifty bucks. Thank you very much, sir. He says, salute
the OGC and all heritage Americans.
Speaker 2: Must allude to you, sir. Americans, Yes, indeed, real Americans.
Thank you, sir.
Speaker 1: Seasider sends us ten bucks in a salute as he
does every week.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Seasider than Americans, Yes indeed, and.
Speaker 1: He definitely is a real American wolfgang since us fifteen bucks,
says gee having to catch the stream light salute the OGC. Well,
thank you sir, three Americans, And no I'm not grimed
from red Hood who's supporting a channel membership star next
to his profile. So he's given us some money every
month to watch gaming content. Thank you very much, sir,
for two bucks, he says. The Lucky Charms question, ay man,
Lucky Charms is a good cereal, all right, I ate
that a lot when I was a little kid.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: I Lucky Charms isn't bad. This like the cereal that
was my favorite, like garbage cereal. It was called Circus
Fun and nobody remembers it, but it was so awesome
and it was literally themed after circuses, Like it was
just so fucking.
Speaker 1: Dope, like like circus animals and stuff like those.
Speaker 4: And yeah, it was totally surreal though.
Speaker 5: It was like it was these like kind of nightmares
looking clowns and hyah like balls and like elephants. It
was courses, coops and balls, bears, elephants and lions. I
remember the song, and like, when I bring it up,
people think I'm on crack or something. I'm like, no, man,
circus fun existed and it was fucking delicious.
Speaker 1: I remember going to being taken to a circus when
I was a kid. I mean, they they've all like
pretty much sentiment banned now. I don't even think you
can go to them anymore. But I do remember when
I was a child seeing like the whole elephants and
a bunch of like tigers and the whole act and everything.
Speaker 4: But it's weird that it dirt as long as it did, man, Like, Honestly,
it's done, Like even if it even if neurotic shit
libs hadn't killed it, It's it's odd it endured after
about the nineteen fifties, you know.
Speaker 1: It?
Speaker 5: Uh then, of course, because I'm in mid Western and
I'm all familiar with the inbred evil cousin of the circus,
the carnival.
Speaker 1: Uh, those are still around in some places.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but no, they're still around here, but they've been
totally sanitized like that man talking like when the cardinal
had come around, Like me and my friends, we'd play
the carnival games because you could win. You could win
a prize mirror. You could win a prize cocaine mirror
with like Motley Crue on it and uh tho joe
like feathered roast clips.
Speaker 4: There's like there's like a seedinus to it. There.
Speaker 5: There's there's a there's like a hair metal in in
in cocaine, like heavily cut cocaine and uh like bad
tattoos and mullet seating as to it.
Speaker 4: That was glorious.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Interesting.
Speaker 3: And the last movie that h Thomas and I reviewed
was Tobe Hooper's Fun House.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Man, that's not the reason why I relate to that film,
but that's also uh it's a dope movie.
Speaker 4: I was watching Hell Night the other day, you know.
Speaker 5: It's that was that was when Linda Blair was in
full screen queen mode, and I mean she was an
adult then, and that's when she was like kicking with
Rick James and become kind of a kind of like
a bad girl, you know, like a bombshell type of
a girl. But Hell Night is pretty dope too. It's
not as good as The Funhouse, but that's kind of
an unsung horror movie too. I've been on a horror film, Kicks.
You might have noticed me.
Speaker 1: Alrighty, I'm moving on to our good friend Millon since
us five bucks. He says, Hey, Thomas doing some research
on Nixon. Do you cover him in any of your
work other than the Nixon episode in the Cold War
series with Pete.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Man Nixon is a consistent the Knicks administration and Nixon.
Speaker 4: The man.
Speaker 5: Bears directly on my primary research concentration and concentrations. And yeah,
the next administration in the nineteen seventy three war is
a major aspect of my manuscript, which I'm sending off
the manuscript April.
Speaker 4: First.
Speaker 5: I've got to get get off my I've got to
do my Texas, and i've got to send the manuscript.
I'm going to do those things the first week in April,
you know. And I plan to dedicate myself increasing a
long form like when this when this book's finally published,
I've got a lot of other long form stuff already
completed as well as sort of in my mind. So yeah,
I'm going to continue writing about the twentieth century. I'm
going to continue writing about how extant conflict paradigms derive
and causal terms from the twentieth century, and the next
administration plays a huge part of that well in terms
of the trajectory of domestic policy and the you know,
in zeitgeist, as well as in terms of international affairs
and things. I'm playing with the idea of writing a
brief I mean apparently brief like you know, two three
hundred pages sort of a revisionist history of the Cold
War and uh focus more on Cold War subject matter.
And I want to write, uh, I want to do
some writing on the epistemological aspects of the end of
the Cold War and the Islamic Awakening specifically, and how
this has characterized the twenty first century and power political terms,
you know. And I like I've said, I osamban Lad
and I'm not saying we should to admire Osamon Laden
or anything like that, but he's he is the most
significant revolutionary since since Ho Chi Minh and uh he
that they can't be denied, you know.
Speaker 4: So I I what I'm getting.
Speaker 5: Is, yeah, I I cover Nixon in the manuscript. I
I continue to cover my content, you know, both written
long and short form, as well as in my podcasting
stuff YouTube channel for some of that stuff. Yeah, I
forget to being along within.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: We also have a three episodes that we did on
Nixon and Watergate that are that are out. There is
a complete complete file on my podcast on my podcast channel.
Speaker 4: Way Hodi.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely check that out. And then we got.
Speaker 1: Donny b for twenty five box and this is actually
not an anthropomorphics supersticker.
Speaker 2: There we go.
Speaker 1: So well, thank you very much for that. And that's
us all caught up on the super chats. So we'll
go through some promotions and we'll call it a night here.
So Pete, where can people find your stuff now that
they don't see you on YouTube much? And what do
you have coming up?
Speaker 3: Honestly, the only thing I was putting on YouTube were
the two hundred Years Together episodes and they're all on
Rumble so and see, so you can just slide right
on over there. Just released a third episode with George
Bagbee released that tonight on the Road to the Road
to the War between the States, and we got into
John Taylor of Caroline and the the Agrarians versus the
the city folk.
Speaker 4: Yeah, baby's awesome.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, very very good dude. Indeed, Thomas, where it
could people find more of your stuff, and thank you
for coming on as ever, always a pleasure to talk
to you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, thanks for including me. I always get a kick
out of be included on OGC streams.
Speaker 4: You should go to my website.
Speaker 5: It's Thomas seven seven seven dot com number seven each
on mes seven seven seven dot com.
Speaker 4: Y's you can pretty much access all my all my content.
Speaker 5: My sub stack is real Thomas seven seven seven at
substack dot com.
Speaker 4: And you can also find me on YouTube.
Speaker 5: It's a Thomas TV at number seven h O M
A s number seven V so Thomas TV.
Speaker 4: You'll see you can you stall find all right?
Speaker 1: Perfect, Everyone definitely make sure to look that up. And
then we got a last minute super chat from volpi's
persona who's also supporting a channel membership star. Thank you
very much. He sends us a salute, well, thank you, Sarah.
You are a real American. Three Americans, all righty, and
that is going to be it for us here tonight. Everyone,
be sure to tune into American Spirits on Monday's Chapter
House on Wednesday, and also check out the OGC Substack.
There's some really good stuff coming out next week and
in the next couple of days on the substack, some
very very important articles, so be sure to look for that.
And then also if you want to become channel members,
polease do. We're having a lot of fun with our
Warhammer streams. We do them maybe once sometimes twice a week,
so be sure to check those out as well, and
we'll see you guys soon.