Speaker 1: I should be hearing my voice.
Speaker 2: You should be hearing my voice.
Speaker 1: You should be hearing my voice, and you're right here.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Raised by Giant's Discussion. I'm your host,
Speaker 2: writer Lee. That was the teaser trailer from my upcoming documentary,
Speaker 2: Psychicage at the Gate Program, releasing soon on Amazon Prime
Speaker 2: and Apple TV. Welcome any moderators Channel members out there.
Speaker 2: If you're watching on YouTuber x or listening on Spotify
Speaker 2: or Apple, or if you're listening to the replay, welcome
Speaker 2: to the show. All of my social media links are
Speaker 2: in the description. Facebook, Instagram, X are great ways to
Speaker 2: stay connected and find out about news, shows and guest appearances.
Speaker 2: I'm currently working on getting DVDs made of Psychicagent the
Speaker 2: Gate Program. I'm working with a company so that when
Speaker 2: it releases, everyone will have a way to watch the movie.
Speaker 2: If you don't like Amazon or Apple TV, you'll have
Speaker 2: a chance to buy the physical DVD from me of
Speaker 2: the movie so you can watch it that way. I
Speaker 2: think it's always important and good to have a physical
Speaker 2: copy of everything, so depending on how this company works out,
Speaker 2: I'll also look into getting DVDs made of JFKX and
Speaker 2: a clockwork shining as well, So there's a lot to
Speaker 2: look forward to you coming up. Also looking into getting
Speaker 2: posters made for the movie. So we have a lot
Speaker 2: going on, looking forward to the release. Very excited. Everything's
Speaker 2: really ramping up. So but today we have with us.
Speaker 2: He is a Canadian TV personality and podcast host. He
Speaker 2: appeared in the documentary America United We Fall and is
Speaker 2: here to talk about his new book, releasing July ninth,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, titled Tales from the Rock and Roll
Speaker 2: Twilight Zone. Richard Saraht Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: Hey, my pleasure, Thank you writer.
Speaker 2: Have you ever watched this TV show on Netflix called
Speaker 2: The Panaverate?
Speaker 1: I have not, no, no, Why do you ask.
Speaker 2: It's just really funny. It's like about this Canadian researcher.
Speaker 2: It's got Michael Myers in it from Austin Powers, you know,
Speaker 2: He's like, it's like this conspiracy TV show where it's
Speaker 2: like making fun of a lot of conspiracy theories and stuff.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, I just thought that it was interesting.
Speaker 2: I thought it was funny, but.
Speaker 1: Maybe I should check it out. Yes, my fellow countryman.
Speaker 2: It's really funny. So you have a new book releasing
Speaker 2: July ninth, title Tales from the Rock and Roll Twilight Zone.
Speaker 2: Amazing title, By the way, what inspired you to write
Speaker 2: this book? Because there's so much with rock and roll history.
Speaker 2: It goes back to Laurel Canyon and Hollywood in the
Speaker 2: sixties and that military base that was on top of
Speaker 2: the mountain, and the Beatles and the doors and all
Speaker 2: of that. So how did this come about?
Speaker 1: It started out as a podcast originally called The Rock
Speaker 1: and Roll Twilight Zone. Actually, I can even go back
Speaker 1: a little bit further. It started off with an idea
Speaker 1: for a terrestrial radio program which I was working on
Speaker 1: with my late partner R. Gary Patterson. He was a
Speaker 1: noted rock historian and from Tennessee, and so we got
Speaker 1: together and we decided we were going to create this
Speaker 1: radio show combining I guess my broadcasting skills, whatever they
Speaker 1: might be, and my interest in my lifelong music or appreciation,
Speaker 1: and his books which delve into mysteries and curses and
Speaker 1: legends and unexplained deaths. And he's written several novel he
Speaker 1: had written several volumes on this topic. So we were
Speaker 1: all ready to launch this radio show. And actually about
Speaker 1: nine years ago in the next couple of days. It
Speaker 1: was May twenty sixth Gary died suddenly, and so then
Speaker 1: I had to figure out, well, what am I going
Speaker 1: to do with this radio show? After a suitable period
Speaker 1: of grieving, I decided to launch the idea as a podcast.
Speaker 1: And then the podcast we produced about forty episodes, and
Speaker 1: here we are eight years later. I decided, you know,
Speaker 1: people were asking, you know, how can I listen to
Speaker 1: the podcast? It wasn't available anymore, and I may release
Speaker 1: it at some point, but I thought, okay, why don't
Speaker 1: And people were bugging me at the same time, write
Speaker 1: a book, Write a book? Where's your book? So I
Speaker 1: decided I would revisit that podcast, and I transcribed sixteen
Speaker 1: episodes and kind of rewrote it and reimagined it. And
Speaker 1: here we are Tales from the Rock and Roll Twilight Zone.
Speaker 2: Where will people be able to purchase a copy of that?
Speaker 2: From my understanding, it's available for pre order right now.
Speaker 1: It is the usual suspects, Amazon, Barnes, and Noble. They
Speaker 1: can order it right from the publisher, which is Trying
Speaker 1: Day dot com t R I N E Day all
Speaker 1: one word Trying Day. And I should also point out
Speaker 1: writer is one of the interesting aspects of this book
Speaker 1: is the there's a QR code that's at the bottom
Speaker 1: of each chapter. Each sixteen chapters as a QR code,
Speaker 1: and they can listen to the episode of the podcast
Speaker 1: sort of exclusively because no one else can listen to
Speaker 1: it right now, they can listen to the episode of
Speaker 1: the podcast that inspired the chat there.
Speaker 2: Well, I haven't got to read it yet, but I'm
Speaker 2: very much looking forward to it because I've made a
Speaker 2: documentary called a Clockwork Shine in a Cubic's Odyssey three
Speaker 2: and it really dives into a lot of the rock
Speaker 2: and roll history of that time and how it was
Speaker 2: essentially created and infiltrated by the CIA. So where does
Speaker 2: this uh, where does your book initially start? Does it
Speaker 2: start with the Beatles and kind of work its way
Speaker 2: up from there? Because there's this really interesting video that
Speaker 2: came out a couple of years ago. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you've seen this. Uh look at this really quickly. Here.
Speaker 2: This is with Paul McCartney, right, and there's this guy.
Speaker 2: Have you seen this video?
Speaker 1: Uh? Oh, I've seen it, yes, with a guy that
Speaker 1: looks like John Lennon behind him. Who knows with AI
Speaker 1: these days? Who knows.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it could be any you know British
Speaker 2: you guy back there, but it looks suspiciously like John
Speaker 2: Lennon right there.
Speaker 1: It does. It does. Yeah. Well, the book is divided
Speaker 1: into four sections, and it doesn't sort of, it doesn't
Speaker 1: go chronologically from chapter one to sixteen. The first four chapters, however,
Speaker 1: are about the Beatles. I call the section the Beatles Enigma.
Speaker 1: The first chapter has to do with this whole idea
Speaker 1: that you alluded to earlier, writer, and that the infiltration
Speaker 1: of rock and roll actually probably started even before that.
Speaker 1: The Beatles were a creation. They weren't simply some organic
Speaker 1: cultural event. I mean, the Beatles were talented musicians in
Speaker 1: their own right. They were an actual, you know, four
Speaker 1: lads from Liverpool who wanted to be you know, bigger
Speaker 1: than Jesus or whatever. But they were infiltrated or the
Speaker 1: machine got behind them. And this whole idea of the
Speaker 1: Beatles invasion, which is a term we're familiar with, you know,
Speaker 1: when these musical groups washed ashore in North America in
Speaker 1: starting at about nineteen sixty four, The Beatles, the Rolling Stones,
Speaker 1: the Animals, the Zombies, a number of other groups, the Kinks,
Speaker 1: I suppose, but they were engineered. They were a creation
Speaker 1: of British intelligence, the Tavistock Institute, and they were designed
Speaker 1: think of them as sort of software. They were designed
Speaker 1: to sort of subvert or corrupt the American youth, lead
Speaker 1: them into drugs, rebellion, the erosion of the family unit,
Speaker 1: and the theory, this is just the theory that they
Speaker 1: were intended to essentially regain the colony that Britain lost
Speaker 1: in seventeen seventy six. In fact, it was at the
Speaker 1: time when the Beatles appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show
Speaker 1: in February of nineteen sixty four, which was watched by
Speaker 1: something like seventy three million Americans. That's one in three
Speaker 1: Americans were watching that live broadcast. A couple of days later,
Speaker 1: there was a Times magazine headline that read something to
Speaker 1: the extent I'm paraphrasing, but in seventeen seventy six, Britain
Speaker 1: lost the American colony. You know, last week Britain got
Speaker 1: it back. In other words, the American youth had fallen
Speaker 1: under the spell perhaps a British intelligence. So that's the
Speaker 1: first chapter. I also deal with the whole Paul is
Speaker 1: Dead legend in that section, which is you know, granted
Speaker 1: it's well trodden territory. Most of us are familiar with
Speaker 1: this theory that Paul McCartney died in a car accident
Speaker 1: in November of nineteen sixty six and was quietly replaced
Speaker 1: by a body double, and that the remaining Beatles, either
Speaker 1: with or without the knowledge of the executives at E.
Speaker 1: M I or Brian Epstein or George Martin, left bread
Speaker 1: crumbs in the album covers their song lyrics backward masking
Speaker 1: in order to I suppose, confess to the public that
Speaker 1: Paul is dead and we've replaced him with this double,
Speaker 1: And I mean, don't I don't believe that that's the case.
Speaker 1: In order to believe that, you know, Paul McCartney was replaced,
Speaker 1: you have to believe that they somehow managed to find
Speaker 1: a look alike who also was left handed, played left
Speaker 1: handed bass, and was arguably more talented than the original Paul.
Speaker 1: When you look at the body of work sort of
Speaker 1: post nineteen sixty six and songs like let It Be
Speaker 1: and Hey Jude and The Long and Winding Road, I
Speaker 1: think you know, the faux Paul as he became known,
Speaker 1: was arguably more talented than the original. But what's interesting
Speaker 1: about it is is and the clues are I think
Speaker 1: are there. Whether it was a clever marketing ploy or
Speaker 1: whatever it was, I think what's fascinating about it is
Speaker 1: how a legend like that, a rumor took root pre
Speaker 1: social media, like sixty or fifty years before social media,
Speaker 1: fifty years before the advent of the Internet, or maybe
Speaker 1: forty years before the Internet, just by word of mouth.
Speaker 1: It started out as some kid on a college campus
Speaker 1: in Davenport, Iowa writing a piece why you know why
Speaker 1: he thought these clues on Abbey Road and the cover
Speaker 1: of Sergeant Pepper's The Only Hearts Club Band and the
Speaker 1: you know he heard something when he played Strawberry Feels Backwards.
Speaker 1: He writes this column. Some other kids pick up on
Speaker 1: the column and they call a radio station in Detroit,
Speaker 1: Russ Gibb, so rock and roll DJ, back in nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty nine. They start talking to Russ Gibb about these
Speaker 1: live on the air, about these these clues they've found.
Speaker 1: The lines start lighting up. Next week, the whole thing
Speaker 1: starts over again at WABC in New York with Robi Young,
Speaker 1: who was a very famous rock DJ at the time.
Speaker 1: That station at night could be heard in something like
Speaker 1: forty different states. The callers flood the studio phone lines.
Speaker 1: Robi Young actually suspends his music format starts taking calls
Speaker 1: live on the air. Oh have you played Revolution nine backwards?
Speaker 1: You can hear you can hear John say, turn me
Speaker 1: on dead Man, or or Paul is dead or I
Speaker 1: buried Paul or whatever it is. Have you seen you know?
Speaker 1: Have you seen Abbey Road? The Volkswagen parked on the
Speaker 1: side of the road and the album cover says twenty eight.
Speaker 1: If twenty eight, if that's the license plate, well, Paul
Speaker 1: McCartney would have been twenty eight if he were still alive.
Speaker 1: So this is going crazy on Robi Young's show. The
Speaker 1: program director comes in and fires Robie Young live on
Speaker 1: the air for breaking with format. And they just took
Speaker 1: off from there, and here we are nearly sixty years
Speaker 1: later from nineteen sixty nine, and the legend still lives.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating.
Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of evidence that the Beatles weren't
Speaker 2: good musicians to begin with. A lot of their producers
Speaker 2: and a lot of the people that work with them
Speaker 2: said that they were not good musicians. They had to
Speaker 2: bring in this band that was really known in Hollywood
Speaker 2: at that time called the Wrecking Crew. Are you familiar
Speaker 2: with the Wrecking Crew?
Speaker 1: With the Wrecking Crew and record.
Speaker 2: All the music for these big bands, because these big
Speaker 2: bands could not perform under like in a really well
Speaker 2: in a recording setting. So I don't know if that's
Speaker 2: really one that proves if it happened or it didn't happen.
Speaker 2: But I mean, from all accounts, all the musicians of
Speaker 2: the Beatles were not good musicians to.
Speaker 1: Begin well, I've heard that rumor. I don't know if
Speaker 1: if I necessarily buy into that. I mean, I'd have
Speaker 1: to look into it a little bit more. But I
Speaker 1: have seen Paul McCartney play live a couple of times
Speaker 1: in the early days. Of course, the Beatles performed on
Speaker 1: BBC Radio Live. They had a regular weekly show on
Speaker 1: the BBC as far as I know, you know, they
Speaker 1: were playing their own instruments. I could be wrong, but
Speaker 1: I don't don't. I don't believe that's the case. They
Speaker 1: none of them could read, read or write music. That's true,
Speaker 1: but many great musicians at that time could not read
Speaker 1: or write music. But I mean, I approach it from
Speaker 1: the point that yes, they did play their own instruments. Yes,
Speaker 1: they were very talented. I think Lennon and McCartney were
Speaker 1: great lyricists. But I'll tell you what, writer, I don't
Speaker 1: know whereabouts you're living in the US, but I'm in
Speaker 1: just north of Toronto, and occasionally I will go down
Speaker 1: into the subway and I will hear performers down there
Speaker 1: who were playing for quarters and loonies. That's what we
Speaker 1: call our one dollar up here, they're buskers. And I
Speaker 1: see some amazing musicians, and I say to myself, you know,
Speaker 1: why isn't that person performing at Roy Thompson Hall or
Speaker 1: at Massey Hall, or you know, I don't know in
Speaker 1: Las Vegas. They are so good, And the reason is
Speaker 1: they don't have the machine behind them. And so you've
Speaker 1: got this I don't know, not an unseen hand exactly,
Speaker 1: but these A and R people, these recording executives who
Speaker 1: annoint certain people and they don't others. Now why is that?
Speaker 1: You know? We could sit here all day and argue
Speaker 1: about why certain people get selected to be for greatness
Speaker 1: and others do not, who are clearly great in their
Speaker 1: own right, but they never achieve celebrity or fame or
Speaker 1: fortune because they don't have the machine behind them. So
Speaker 1: this I think there's some credence to the idea that
Speaker 1: the machine not only EMI, but for example, I mentioned
Speaker 1: the Tavistock Institute, which was this sort of well think
Speaker 1: about it. Think of it as Sigmund Freud meets the
Speaker 1: Ministry of Defense in Great Britain. So after the war,
Speaker 1: the Tavistock Institute was formed in order to deal with
Speaker 1: michelle shocked soldiers coming back from the Second World War
Speaker 1: and sort of put their psyche back together again. Well,
Speaker 1: the theory goes that not only while they were working
Speaker 1: on that, they were figuring out, well, if we can
Speaker 1: put the psyche back together again, maybe we can reverse
Speaker 1: engineer and figure out how to take the psyche apart
Speaker 1: and then put it back together the way that we
Speaker 1: want to. And so they got into researching mass behavioral modification.
Speaker 1: And again the theory is that the Beatles were also
Speaker 1: influenced by people like Theodora Dorno, who was a member
Speaker 1: of the Frankfurt School. They were social critics, sociologists, academics,
Speaker 1: intellectual who didn't like They were sort of Marxist, excuse me,
Speaker 1: Marxist leaning. They didn't like capitalism. They didn't like the
Speaker 1: family unit. They believe that the family was sort of
Speaker 1: led to fascism some pretty far out thinking. Well, the
Speaker 1: theory is that EMI and the Tavistock Institute brought this
Speaker 1: brought in one of these individuals by the name of
Speaker 1: Theodora d'orno, and he helped sort of craft not the songs.
Speaker 1: He didn't write the songs. He didn't write Please Please
Speaker 1: me or she loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, but he
Speaker 1: he knew, for example, what what chords, what musical chords,
Speaker 1: because he was a bit of a musician in his
Speaker 1: own right, what musical chords could produce melancholy in someone
Speaker 1: if they heard them, What sound waves could produce, you know,
Speaker 1: certain emotions and certain thoughts, and that all of this
Speaker 1: went into into creating the Beatles. Again, if the if
Speaker 1: the British Empire wanted to take the colony back, you know,
Speaker 1: instead of using muskets, now they were using Rick and
Speaker 1: Bocker guitars instead of red coats. Now they have these
Speaker 1: amazing harmonies. And when you look at what you know, Beatlemania,
Speaker 1: and and and it was almost as if these young
Speaker 1: people were in some kind of a trance.
Speaker 2: Have you read Dave McGowan's book, We're Scenes Inside the Canyon.
Speaker 1: Yes, I met Dave sadly he died obviously a number
Speaker 1: of years ago, but I met him while I was
Speaker 1: producing a television show and we talked about We talked
Speaker 1: about that, We talked about Laurel Canyon, of course. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of a lot of interconnections
Speaker 1: between US intelligence, the military. You mentioned the Bass and
Speaker 1: Laurel Canyon and so forth. I did produce an episode
Speaker 1: on Jim Morrison for the podcast. You didn't make it
Speaker 1: into the into the the book, but this time I
Speaker 1: couldn't get all forty episodes into the book. But there
Speaker 1: may be, not promising, there may be a volume two,
Speaker 1: and I'll definitely get into Did Jim Morrison and Laurel Canyon?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, as you know, he kind of proposes that
Speaker 2: a lot of these big bands, the reason that they're
Speaker 2: push to the forefront and they have the machine behind
Speaker 2: them is because they're a part of the military industrial complex.
Speaker 2: One of their family members is as a high ranking
Speaker 2: military officer or and whenever you when you look at it,
Speaker 2: it's pretty shocking when you look at all the bands
Speaker 2: and all the people that were that had family members
Speaker 2: that were a part of this military industrial complex. Some
Speaker 2: family members normally their dad is a part of as
Speaker 2: a high ranking military officer, and that gets into well,
Speaker 2: that's probably why a lot of these people that are
Speaker 2: really talented, that really do have a really good gift
Speaker 2: don't end up making it because, like George Carlin always said,
Speaker 2: you're not a part of the club, right, You're not
Speaker 2: a part of this because of your background. Your family
Speaker 2: isn't a part of this entire thing. So therefore you're
Speaker 2: not going to make it. You're not going to rise
Speaker 2: the level of fame as these other people that do
Speaker 2: have this in their background. And that's not saying that
Speaker 2: people can't, because there are obviously some people that kind
Speaker 2: of do slip through the cracks and do end up
Speaker 2: getting in there, but it seems like it's reserved for
Speaker 2: certain people and they're kind of cultivated and pushed in
Speaker 2: this direction since they're a very young kid.
Speaker 1: Well, certainly with Jim Morrison, Jim Morrison's father was an
Speaker 1: admiral and he was involved in the Gulf of Tonkin incident,
Speaker 1: which was the false flag that provided the justification for
Speaker 1: the US involvement in Vietnam. I mean not so with
Speaker 1: the Beatles, As far as I know, they weren't. Think
Speaker 1: I think John Lennon's father was a merchant, member of
Speaker 1: the Merchant Navy in Liverpool, but know that I could
Speaker 1: find her that I'm aware of any military connections. But
Speaker 1: I think in this case, you know, they served a
Speaker 1: different purpose. I don't think they and I don't think
Speaker 1: that they were witting participants in this. They wanted what
Speaker 1: all young people wanted. They wanted, you know that they
Speaker 1: were they were artists. They wanted they wanted some fame
Speaker 1: and some recognition and you know, and to make a
Speaker 1: good living. And again they got that. They got the
Speaker 1: machine behind them, you know. I think with the Beatles,
Speaker 1: it's interesting. You know, they were performing for a couple
Speaker 1: of years in Hamburg and of course at the Cavern Club,
Speaker 1: and uh they were they were performing mainly covers because
Speaker 1: they weren't really established as writers at this point. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then there is a there's a particular night in
Speaker 1: December of nineteen sixty at a concert hall in Liverpool
Speaker 1: and if you go there today, the hall is still
Speaker 1: there and it's got a plaque on it. They call
Speaker 1: it the birthplace of Beatlemania. Because it was on that
Speaker 1: night where something changed where I mean, yes, the Beatles
Speaker 1: were sort of the house band at the Cavern Club
Speaker 1: and they performed, as I say, endlessly, several shows per night,
Speaker 1: like I think seven nights a week in Amburg, where
Speaker 1: they really earned their chops. But something happened at one
Speaker 1: specific night in Liverpool at that hall in nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: where it just exploded and they became Beatlemania, and this
Speaker 1: craze was born. And I actually get into that in
Speaker 1: another chapter in the Beatles Enigma, section section one. This
Speaker 1: chapter four and has to do with John Lennon, and
Speaker 1: this gets out of sort of the realm of conspiracy
Speaker 1: and more into suppose the supernatural and spiritual warfare, but
Speaker 1: it has to do with John Lennon specifically and whether
Speaker 1: or not he made a pact with the devil and
Speaker 1: whether that packed actually was sort of begun that night
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty when Beatlemania was born. I interviewed an
Speaker 1: author by the name of Joseph Nisgoda who wrote a
Speaker 1: book called The Lenin Prophecy, and he gets into all
Speaker 1: of the foreshadowing and John Lennon's not only in his
Speaker 1: lyrics but again album covers and some of the things
Speaker 1: that Lenin told you know, family and friends about wanting
Speaker 1: he was going to be bigger than Elvis and he
Speaker 1: didn't care how he accomplished it. And you know, he
Speaker 1: was going to be bigger than Jesus. And we get
Speaker 1: into the foreshadowing and again obviously it ends up in
Speaker 1: New York City in nineteen eighty with Mark David Chapman,
Speaker 1: and whether Mark David Chapman was more than just a
Speaker 1: programmed assassin, whether he was in fact sort of the
Speaker 1: individual that was sent to collect the bill, if you will,
Speaker 1: he was there to close the contract.
Speaker 2: Talk to me more about this supernatural element, because we
Speaker 2: get this with a lot of these early musicians like this,
Speaker 2: you know, we get it with the Doors. I mean,
Speaker 2: he's obviously tripping on some drugs and all this. We
Speaker 2: get it with Ozzy Osbourne. We get it with a
Speaker 2: lot of these people that tend to have like this
Speaker 2: supernatural experience preluding their rise to fame. So what was
Speaker 2: this with the Beatles.
Speaker 1: Well, specifically with you with John Lennon was just as
Speaker 1: I said, the theory according to Joseph NICs Gooda, and
Speaker 1: I should say, you know, when writing this book, and
Speaker 1: in producing the podcast called The Rock and Roll Twilight Zone,
Speaker 1: I leaned heavily on some great researchers and authors, and
Speaker 1: so the podcast was kind of produced in a documentary
Speaker 1: style where I would weave in two or three, you know,
Speaker 1: interviews which were conducted either in person or over zoom
Speaker 1: or skypro over the phone, and then sort of around
Speaker 1: those interviews I constructed this narrative. So, for example, in
Speaker 1: chapter four with John Lennon, it's called the Bargain, and
Speaker 1: Joseph Knights Gooda again looks at the foreshadowing which he
Speaker 1: believes suggests or he would use stronger language he would say,
Speaker 1: proves that John Lennon actually made a pact with Satan
Speaker 1: that in exchange for being you know, famous and more
Speaker 1: popular than Jesus, as he famously said in nineteen sixty six,
Speaker 1: you know, according to the terms of the contract. Twenty
Speaker 1: years later, and you see this, this duration of the contact,
Speaker 1: the term of the contract twenty years Well, if you
Speaker 1: go back to that concert in Liverpool in nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: December of nineteen sixty, it's almost twenty years exactly when
Speaker 1: John Lennon is shot by Mark David Chapman, you know,
Speaker 1: So was Mark David Chapman demonically possessed? Was he there
Speaker 1: basically to collect the bill by killing John Lennon twenty
Speaker 1: years after he Beatlemania was launched? And there is some
Speaker 1: interesting foreshadowing. One of the most striking things actually that
Speaker 1: this gota points out is this is in the sort
Speaker 1: of the Magical Mystery Tour era nineteen sixty seven. So
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if this photograph is on the album
Speaker 1: or it's in the movie, but there's a fame. There's
Speaker 1: a picture of John Lennon and he's black and white
Speaker 1: photo and he's on the street and kind of a
Speaker 1: head and shoulder shot, and in behind John Lennon is
Speaker 1: a billboard sign, and I believe it's supposed to be
Speaker 1: a travel company because the billboard ad says the best
Speaker 1: way to go, as in travel, the best way to
Speaker 1: go is MDC, MDC being the name of the travel company. Well,
Speaker 1: if you think about it, the initials MDC Mark David Chapman.
Speaker 1: The best way to go is Mark David Chapman. So
Speaker 1: that's just one example, but there's all kinds of examples
Speaker 1: in these lyrics which led Nice go to to believe
Speaker 1: again he made the deal with the devil. Do I
Speaker 1: believe that, Well, I am a Bible believe in Christian
Speaker 1: I'm an Orthodox Christian. I do believe in an unseen world.
Speaker 1: I do believe in in spiritual warfare. I believe in demons,
Speaker 1: I believe in angels. So I can't discount that. There is,
Speaker 1: of course, the other possible explanation for why Mike Mark
Speaker 1: David Chapman did what he did, and I don't get
Speaker 1: into that in this chapter. Perhaps in another book I will,
Speaker 1: and that was that the Chapman was a Mancharian candidate,
Speaker 1: that he was again programmed by the CIA, as were
Speaker 1: so many other public figures taken out because they were
Speaker 1: deemed they could no longer be controlled. They were created
Speaker 1: by the machine. And then they decided basically to tell
Speaker 1: the public, you know, you've been duped. I am a
Speaker 1: creation of the machine. It's like a puppet pointing out,
Speaker 1: you know, a marionette puppet pointing out, look at the strings,
Speaker 1: Look at the strings. Lenin, of course, in nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: was re emerging as a as an artist and also
Speaker 1: as an activist, and there, you know, there was a
Speaker 1: long standing battle between the FBI and the United States
Speaker 1: government in order to try and deport John Lennon. There
Speaker 1: was a huge FBI dossier on John Lennon. By this
Speaker 1: time his phones were being tapped, So there's a lot
Speaker 1: of credence to that argument as well, that Chapman was
Speaker 1: a Manchurian candidate.
Speaker 2: And triggered by the book Catcher in the Rye. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's really interesting. Yeah, I was just wondering if there
Speaker 2: was anything more to that, him selling his soul or
Speaker 2: whatever to the devil or Satan or evil or whatever,
Speaker 2: because like there's a lot of stories of people like
Speaker 2: seeing things, and there's like eye witness stuff. But it
Speaker 2: sounds like the this is a theory, right.
Speaker 1: Whenever you're of course, whenever you're talking about you know,
Speaker 1: the supernatural over the unseen world, there's no there's never
Speaker 1: any smoking gun or or you know, definitive document unless
Speaker 1: someone can produce, I don't know, a contract written in blood.
Speaker 1: But if you you know, when when once people read
Speaker 1: the chapter and we dive right into you know, all
Speaker 1: of the lyrics and the foreshadowing and and so forth,
Speaker 1: how Lenin committed blasphemy. How he later regretted that in
Speaker 1: his in his lyrics. So, for example, in the Goota
Speaker 1: points out there's a song that Lennon wrote and later
Speaker 1: in his career he was writing these songs, but all
Speaker 1: which almost seemed like they were songs written in regret,
Speaker 1: like I've made a horrible mistake. What have I done?
Speaker 1: I've sold my soul. There's a song called Scared, and
Speaker 1: he writes, there's no candle or my apologies. I can't
Speaker 1: remember the exact wording, but there's no bell, candle or
Speaker 1: book that's going to get me out of this. In Catholicism,
Speaker 1: when you're excommunicated, they close the book, they ring the bell,
Speaker 1: and they blow out a candle. So John Lennon was
Speaker 1: not Catholic. But the idea is he understood that he
Speaker 1: had been, that he had blasphemed God, and that he
Speaker 1: was basically admitting, yes, there's nothing that I've been excommunicated.
Speaker 1: I've really gotten myself into some serious trouble here.
Speaker 2: Let's go back before the Beatles. Do you talk about
Speaker 2: all this at all in your book?
Speaker 1: I do. Yeah, there's an entire chapter. There's a whole
Speaker 1: section called Killer Courts, four chapters on four artists who
Speaker 1: died under somewhat mysterious circumstances, or at least there was
Speaker 1: a rush to judgment in pronouncing their death either misadventure
Speaker 1: or a drug overdose. So Elvis is in there, and
Speaker 1: there's this Unfortunately, you know, Elvis in death has become
Speaker 1: a bit of a caricature, which isn't really unfortunate because
Speaker 1: he was such an amazing talent and one of the
Speaker 1: great song interpreters. He didn't write music or songs, but
Speaker 1: his interpretations were just masterful. And when he passed away,
Speaker 1: this legend, of course grew up was that he had
Speaker 1: faked his death to escape fame or to escape the
Speaker 1: mob who wanted to put a hit on him. And
Speaker 1: you know, then all of these sightings started in the
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties. Oh, I saw someone who I think is
Speaker 1: Elvis flipping burgers in Kalamazoo or something. This chapter takes
Speaker 1: an entirely different approach, and that is that Elvis Presley
Speaker 1: didn't fake his death. Elvis Presley was in fact murdered
Speaker 1: in the bathroom of Graceland. And for this chapter I
Speaker 1: lean on a couple of great searchers, one in particular
Speaker 1: Steve Hugh Baaney, who was an author who wrote a
Speaker 1: series of books. He's still writing the series. It's called
Speaker 1: Who Murdered So he wrote a book called Who Murdered Fdr?
Speaker 1: Who Murdered Princess Die? And then of course he wrote
Speaker 1: Who Murdered Elvis? Presley and Steve was in contact with
Speaker 1: There was a someone who worked in the Memphis Medical
Speaker 1: Medical Examiner's office. His name was Dan Warlick. I believe
Speaker 1: Dan Warlick was on the scene at Graceland immediately following
Speaker 1: the discovery of Elvis's body, noticed that the bedroom on
Speaker 1: the second floor had essentially been sanitized. The bed had
Speaker 1: been made I mean, we're talking about a potential crime
Speaker 1: scene here had been sanitized. There was you know, Elvis
Speaker 1: did take a lot of medication. He was an insomniac.
Speaker 1: He had a number of different ailments. They were all
Speaker 1: prescribed by doctor Nicopolis. He was not some pill popping
Speaker 1: junkie as we've been We've been told. He had an
Speaker 1: encyclopedic knowledge of pharmaceuticals. He had to be very careful
Speaker 1: about what he took. For example, he was allergic to codeine,
Speaker 1: and so none of the uh, you know, the pill
Speaker 1: packets were anywhere to be found. The bathroom where he
Speaker 1: was found essentially was sanitized. Then there's the UH and
Speaker 1: then Warlock, you know, took notes, took copious notes, took photographs.
Speaker 1: That night his car is ransacked and all of his
Speaker 1: notes and photographs are taken from his car. The stomach contents,
Speaker 1: Elvis's stomach contents mysteriously went missing. There were three different
Speaker 1: pathology reports UH issued. Two of them found only trace
Speaker 1: or therapy ceutic elements of various prescription drugs in his
Speaker 1: bloodstream or in his body, i should say, in his tish,
Speaker 1: in his tissue. The third in California, California mysteriously found
Speaker 1: lethal amounts of codeine in Elvis's tissues. Well, again, Elvis
Speaker 1: was allergic to codeine. He never would have gone anywhere
Speaker 1: near codine. So there's some question as to whether someone
Speaker 1: influenced the The team at that California lab all sorts
Speaker 1: of inconsistencies. And then we get into Elvis's involvement in
Speaker 1: Project Fountain Pen, which was an attempt to indict some
Speaker 1: high level mobsters in this scheme that his father, Vernon
Speaker 1: Pressley got caught up in in trying to sell one
Speaker 1: of Elvis's personal jets, his private jet it's called the
Speaker 1: hound Dog two, and this mobster tried to buy it back.
Speaker 1: It was kind of a to buy it and then
Speaker 1: lease it back, and some laundering was involved. I don't
Speaker 1: understand exactly the intricacies of this scheme, but it is
Speaker 1: suggested that Elvis at some point was going to be
Speaker 1: called to testify against the mob in this case. Not
Speaker 1: that Elvis's testimony, you know, was sort of the be
Speaker 1: all and the end all, but when you had a
Speaker 1: public figure like Elvis on the witness stand in a
Speaker 1: case like this, it really would have shone the light
Speaker 1: on the whole operation. And so the mob obviously not
Speaker 1: happy about Elvis as possible testimony. In addition, the colonel
Speaker 1: Colonel Tom Parker, who took fifty percent of every penny
Speaker 1: that Elvis made. It was a horrible deal for Elvis.
Speaker 1: He was really horribly mismanaged and used and abused by
Speaker 1: Colonel Tom Parker. Colonel Tom Parker was an inveterate gambler,
Speaker 1: reportedly owed something like thirty million dollars to the mob.
Speaker 1: That's why he had Elvis performing NonStop, this tortuous schedule
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, which was you know, most of the
Speaker 1: casinos were owned by the mob. He was trying to
Speaker 1: Elvis was his collateral, his way of paying back the mob.
Speaker 1: The FBI was aware of this. They asked if they
Speaker 1: could infiltrate Elvis's sort of his backup band. He had
Speaker 1: a huge backup band, like an orchestra, horn players and
Speaker 1: backup singers, so some members of his band reportedly were
Speaker 1: members of the FBI. They were spying on the mob
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, and at the same time, the mob
Speaker 1: pressuring Colonel Tom Parker to keep Elvis in line, and
Speaker 1: a deadly cocktail which may have ultimately ended up with
Speaker 1: Elvis being strangled in his bathroom. And there's a timeline
Speaker 1: there and a lot of evidence and quotes from documents
Speaker 1: and pathology reports and so forth. I think people are
Speaker 1: going to be very interested in reading that chapter because
Speaker 1: it just it goes against everything we've ever been told
Speaker 1: about Elvis. Oh, he died of a heart attack, well
Speaker 1: the heart attack ruling by doctor Francisco in the Memphis
Speaker 1: medical office. He rendered that decision before he even received
Speaker 1: any toxicology the toxology report. He just he wanted to
Speaker 1: placate the fans out there that were mourning Elvis's death.
Speaker 1: They wanted answers again rush to judgment. The idea that
Speaker 1: Elvis had a heart attack is also disputed because three
Speaker 1: weeks before he went on tour again, he was given
Speaker 1: a clean bill of health by the insurance company and
Speaker 1: they dissected Elvis's heart during the autopsy, there was no
Speaker 1: evidence that he was in any danger of having some
Speaker 1: catastrophic cardiac event.
Speaker 2: This theory involves, if I'm not mistaken, it could be
Speaker 2: another one because there's a lot of theories surrounding all this.
Speaker 2: But is this the one where they believe that someone
Speaker 2: came in through the window of the bathroom and killed him.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember if we specifically mentioned the entry point.
Speaker 1: Elvis died supposedly around three o'clock according to the medical examiner,
Speaker 1: but Steve Ughbaney was unable or was able to uncover
Speaker 1: a a whether it was I think it was it
Speaker 1: was either FedEx or US Postal Service document that had
Speaker 1: someone came to the door from the Postal Service or
Speaker 1: from FedEx, and Elvis actually signed for the package, and
Speaker 1: I believe it was time stamped sometime after he supposed
Speaker 1: a time of death. The theory is I don't want
Speaker 1: to give it all away. But the theory is that
Speaker 1: that the timing of Elvis coming to the door and
Speaker 1: signing that document is kind of crucial to how the
Speaker 1: the the alleged murderer got into the into the bathroom upstairs.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, Elvis also had like some honorary badges. I
Speaker 2: believe it was either it might have been FBI or something.
Speaker 2: He was sort of quase working undercover for the government
Speaker 2: to take out some of these some of the mobsters
Speaker 2: and drugs. He was like working as like a essentially
Speaker 2: a Dea agent.
Speaker 1: Elvis was an avid collector of badges. He loved police departments,
Speaker 1: he loved the sheriffs, he loved the cop on the beat.
Speaker 1: He collected badges from all over the country. And he did,
Speaker 1: in fact, really covet a Dea badge. And so he
Speaker 1: arranged for a meeting with President Richard Nixon in night
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy was invited to the White House. There are
Speaker 1: two theories. One is that Richard Nixon was simply, you know,
Speaker 1: it was a photo op. Nixon was desperate to be
Speaker 1: popular with young people, and so he thought if he
Speaker 1: could be seen in the in the Oval office shaking
Speaker 1: hands with the King of rock and roll that that
Speaker 1: way that might you know, help his chances for re election.
Speaker 1: But there was nothing more to it. According to this theory,
Speaker 1: it was just it was just a photo op and
Speaker 1: Elvis got a badge. Now, it was important for Elvis
Speaker 1: to be on good terms with the FBI and to
Speaker 1: have to have, you know, to be on the good
Speaker 1: side because Elvis's security people carried guns and for them
Speaker 1: to be able to carry guns across you know, state
Speaker 1: borders and so forth. My understanding was it was important
Speaker 1: for them to have you know, all their paperwork in order,
Speaker 1: so that may have also been part of it. But yes,
Speaker 1: we also understand that there was this arrangement, not necessarily
Speaker 1: to go under cover for the for the Drug Enforcement Agency.
Speaker 1: Although Elvis was very outspoken about you know, drugs and
Speaker 1: the influence of certain bands like the Beatles, who worshiped Elvis,
Speaker 1: but he wasn't a fan of you know, going back
Speaker 1: to that first chapter and the Beatles coming into America
Speaker 1: and gradually sort of introducing the the youth culture into uh,
Speaker 1: you know, psychedelics and so forth. Elvis was not a
Speaker 1: fan of that, uh and I think he made it
Speaker 1: known he'd be willing to, you know, tell them everything
Speaker 1: he knew about it. I don't think Elvis was going
Speaker 1: under cover for the DEA. I think I think the
Speaker 1: FBI wanted Elvis uh to to help them spy on
Speaker 1: the Mob in Las Vegas one and also perhaps participate
Speaker 1: in this sting operation called Operation Fountain Pen Uh to
Speaker 1: take down some key figures in the Mob who were
Speaker 1: involved in this in this financial scheme I was talking
Speaker 1: about earlier.
Speaker 2: All right, let's fast forward a little bit to Jimmy
Speaker 2: Hendricks and what was going on with him and some
Speaker 2: possible MK ultra style technique surrounding him, because he's another
Speaker 2: one that you know, supposedly died of an overdose, like
Speaker 2: many of these other musicians tend to mysteriously just die
Speaker 2: of overdoses.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a nice, tidy and neat explanation that
Speaker 1: so many it almost serves as cover whenever a young
Speaker 1: musician dies around the age of twenty seven. You know,
Speaker 1: we're all familiar with the twenty seven club and it
Speaker 1: all really began, well, it began with Robert Johnson in
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties. He died at twenty seven, but nobody
Speaker 1: really paid attention until Brian Jones in sixty nine at
Speaker 1: the age of twenty seven, Janis Joplin in nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: at the age of twenty seven, Jimmy Hendricks twenty seven
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy, and then Jim Morrison in nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: one at the age of twenty seven. But with Jimmy Hendrix,
Speaker 1: he was involved with a very sinister, let's say, manager
Speaker 1: by the name of Mike Jeffrey. Mike Jeffrey, by all accounts,
Speaker 1: was former British intelligence perhaps six go.
Speaker 2: There you go, there's the other military.
Speaker 1: Connection there you go. Yeah, And he would brag to
Speaker 1: anyone who would listen. I guess once they all got
Speaker 1: into the cups that you know he was involved in
Speaker 1: the Suez Crisis back in nineteen fifty six, and that
Speaker 1: he was essentially an assassin. You know, he would kill people,
Speaker 1: and he could kill people very easily, and he had
Speaker 1: a particular technique that we can come to a little
Speaker 1: bit later if time permits. But he he saw Jimmy
Speaker 1: Hendrix as his his ticket. Jimmy Hendrix was a cash
Speaker 1: cow and their contract was expiring, and Mike Jeffrey was
Speaker 1: very worried because here's another common theme. Mike Jeffrey was
Speaker 1: indebted to the Mob. Jimmy Hendrix wanted to build a
Speaker 1: studio in New York City called Electric Electric Lady Electric
Speaker 1: Lady Studios I believe it was, and Mike Jeffrey had
Speaker 1: to go to the MOB and take out massive loans
Speaker 1: in order to make this happen for repairs and renovations
Speaker 1: and so forth. There are other reasons, but he was
Speaker 1: indebted to the MOB, and so the prospect of Mike
Speaker 1: Jeffrey losing it may have been his only client, or
Speaker 1: it certainly is only a high profile client. That was
Speaker 1: a big problem for Mike Jeffrey. He couldn't let that happen,
Speaker 1: and so Mike Jeffrey was constantly trying to prove to
Speaker 1: Jimmy Hendrix that Jimmy Hendrix would be lost without him. So,
Speaker 1: for example, Mike Jeffrey would arrange with his underworld connections,
Speaker 1: and this actually happened. Jimmy Hendrix to get kidnapped. Jimmy
Speaker 1: Hendrix was kidnapped and held by the members of this
Speaker 1: mob in New York City near Greenwich Village, and so
Speaker 1: Mike Jeffrey set up the kidnapping and then he set
Speaker 1: up the rescue. He got these other mobsters to come
Speaker 1: in from Long Island or New Jersey who were bigger
Speaker 1: and tougher than the ones that kidnapped Jimmy, and they
Speaker 1: freed him and Mike Jeffrey looked like a hero to
Speaker 1: Jimmy Hendricks. He was always doing these things to try
Speaker 1: and prove to Jimmy, you know, without me, you're screwed. Basically,
Speaker 1: there was another incident here in Toronto where Jimmy Hendrix
Speaker 1: was arrested at the airport for a possession of heroin.
Speaker 1: Was there was heroin and drug paraphernalia and his luggage. Well,
Speaker 1: by this time Jimmy was off drugs. He would smoke
Speaker 1: a little herb and he would drink a little bit.
Speaker 1: And his girlfriend at the time, Kathy Etchingham, was there
Speaker 1: with him and He's swore up and down, you know
Speaker 1: this is not mine. I'm off this, you know me,
Speaker 1: I don't do this anymore. Well, according to one of
Speaker 1: the gentlemen that I interviewed for the book and for
Speaker 1: the podcast, James Tappy Wright, who was Jimmy's road manager,
Speaker 1: and he was a road manager for a number of
Speaker 1: groups including The Animals and Tina Turner. At one point,
Speaker 1: James Tappy Wright says that Jeffrey confided in him that
Speaker 1: he was in fact the one who planted those drugs
Speaker 1: on Jimmy Hendrix. He wanted him to get caught. So again,
Speaker 1: Mike Jeffrey would ride in like the white like the
Speaker 1: Knight on the White Horse, and maybe with his six
Speaker 1: connection was able to get Jimmy off of these drug charges.
Speaker 1: So again, Mike Jeffrey as the savior. Jimmy's totally reliant
Speaker 1: on him. There's no way he would cancel the contract
Speaker 1: or not renew the contract because you know, Mike Jeffrey
Speaker 1: was the only one that could protect Jimmy Hendrix. This
Speaker 1: was the psychology that Jeffrey was using on Hendricks in
Speaker 1: addition to keeping him constantly on tour. Just Colonel Tom
Speaker 1: Parker did this with Elvis in order to control him.
Speaker 1: He was just so tired, exhausted, really physically worn out,
Speaker 1: mentally and emotionally worn out from being on tour constantly,
Speaker 1: and then on top of that, telling Jimmy that he
Speaker 1: was broke, that he was spending too much money, he
Speaker 1: had no more money. This is all kind of classic
Speaker 1: MK ultra technique to grind someone down, to wear them
Speaker 1: down so they are more susceptible. And then of course
Speaker 1: he would he would constantly being you know, constantly being
Speaker 1: told to sign this and sign that. What am I signing? Now?
Speaker 1: Oh it's nothing, it's just standard, a standard contract or
Speaker 1: a standard document. He had no idea what he was signing. Well,
Speaker 1: he was signing over control of his life to Mike Jeffrey.
Speaker 1: So when Jimmy Hendrix died in London in nineteen seventy,
Speaker 1: supposedly he aspirated on vomit after taking too many barbituates.
Speaker 1: And we get into this in the in the chapter
Speaker 1: when he was taken to Saint Mary's Hospital and they
Speaker 1: were trying to revive him. He was way too late.
Speaker 1: He was long gone by that time. His hair was
Speaker 1: soaked with red wine, his clothes were soaked with red wine,
Speaker 1: but there was no red wine in his bloodstream. As
Speaker 1: it turned out, there was red wine in his in
Speaker 1: his lungs, there was no red wine in his stomach.
Speaker 1: And we get into the book, into the book how
Speaker 1: how Jimmy Hendrix who was actually murdered using a technique
Speaker 1: that's very similar to waterboarding, and that was something that
Speaker 1: Mike Jeffrey was very very well aware of that technique.
Speaker 1: Jimmy Hendricks was essentially drowned.
Speaker 2: I think that that's the same with Marilyn Monroe as
Speaker 2: well as something with red wine. With Marilyn Monroe, she
Speaker 2: might have had more red wine in her stomach than
Speaker 2: could possibly have been. I'm I'm not sure i'd have
Speaker 2: the refresh on Marilyn Monroe, but I think that there's
Speaker 2: something too the red wine with her as well.
Speaker 1: Well. What seems to be a sort of a common
Speaker 1: thread through many of these unexplained deaths, whether we're talking
Speaker 1: about Marilyn Monroe, and in that case, I believe you
Speaker 1: had the same corner, Thomas Negucci. Just to get off
Speaker 1: on a bit of a side track here, Thomas Negucci
Speaker 1: was the her corner was also the corner for Robert F. Kennedy,
Speaker 1: and in both cases, Nagucci's findings were contrary to the
Speaker 1: the you know, the final report, and I think in
Speaker 1: both cases he was chased out of town temporarily. There's
Speaker 1: a Now, let me see, there was another case in
Speaker 1: the book. Oh, it was back to Elvis. The same coroner,
Speaker 1: coroner for Elvis was also the corner for Martin Luther
Speaker 1: King Jr. Who also died in Memphis, you know, nine
Speaker 1: years earlier, in nineteen sixty eight. So you have this
Speaker 1: common thread of these coroners who are either corrupt or
Speaker 1: if they don't if they if they don't cooperate, they're
Speaker 1: fired or kicked out or pushed out of town. You've
Speaker 1: got these this rush to judgment on the part of
Speaker 1: police departments. This comes up later in a chapter on
Speaker 1: Kirk Cobain where it was ruled a suicide despite you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of very telling evidence to the contrary. So
Speaker 1: these things don't happen without the the the complicity of
Speaker 1: either corrupt officials or or people that are I don't know, manipulated,
Speaker 1: pushed aside. There's always a rush to judgment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the the did in the corner say
Speaker 2: with the RFK assassination that he was that he believed
Speaker 2: that he was shot up close with the twenty two the.
Speaker 1: Back of the yes, not at the back of the head.
Speaker 1: He was shot from the supposedly by the Yeah, whereas
Speaker 1: Naguchi and most of the evidence seems to suggest the
Speaker 1: RFK Junior or not RFK Junior. My apologies RFK was
Speaker 1: shot from behind in a close range. He had he
Speaker 1: had powder burns behind his ear. He was shot from
Speaker 1: the rear and Sir Hans Sir hand was to the
Speaker 1: front and to the left.
Speaker 2: So it's pass both for Sir Hans Sirhan to have
Speaker 2: done that whenever he was hit from behind. According to him, Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: where are those Martin Luther King junior files? Didn't Trump
Speaker 2: promise that we were going to get the RFK files,
Speaker 2: the Martin Luther King files. We haven't gotten those yet.
Speaker 1: No, I don't believe. So that's a good point. We
Speaker 1: haven't seen anything as far as I know on RFK
Speaker 1: or MLK. Everyone's focused on JFK. Of course, I'm.
Speaker 2: Pretty sure he said that on the campaign trail. He
Speaker 2: was like, JFK files are going to be released, Martin
Speaker 2: Luther King files, RFK files, and then of course we've
Speaker 2: gotten some of the Epstein files and now it's you know,
Speaker 2: I think he released a lot of the JFK files,
Speaker 2: not all of them, and now it's UFO files. But
Speaker 2: I've been really interested in the RFK assassination and the
Speaker 2: Martin Luther King junior files. So Trump release those files.
Speaker 2: He's got a lot of files to release, bro.
Speaker 1: Hay, while they're at it, why not release the Elvis files.
Speaker 2: Hey, they should do that as well. You should just
Speaker 2: release all of it. I mean, come on, it's been
Speaker 2: such a long time that those events have happened. Like
Speaker 2: the people that were probably involved there are probably not
Speaker 2: even alive now, you know what I mean, Like, come on,
Speaker 2: give us a break.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's not now. I don't think it's about
Speaker 1: protecting certain individuals. It's about protecting certain institutions.
Speaker 2: Right, So you mentioned Kurt Cobain. There there's been new
Speaker 2: evidence that's come out. I believe a group of private
Speaker 2: investigators published some sort of peer reviewed paper essentially arguing
Speaker 2: that Cobain's death in nineteen ninety four was indeed a homicide.
Speaker 2: Like pretty much everyone had said. Many documentaries and papers
Speaker 2: and videos have been made on Kirko being essentially saying that,
Speaker 2: you know, he was killed, he was murdered, this was
Speaker 2: a homicide, This wasn't a suicide. And there's so many
Speaker 2: different things that you can get into, but just based
Speaker 2: off of the fact that the gun that was used
Speaker 2: he could not have fired under the amount of substance
Speaker 2: that he had reportedly in his body. He would add
Speaker 2: the turn of the gun around and use his toe
Speaker 2: to blow his head off, right, So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, those are two. Those are two, certainly two red flags.
Speaker 1: The forensic researchers who just published their findings in February,
Speaker 1: or at least it was reported by the Daily Mail
Speaker 1: in February of this year. As far as I can tell,
Speaker 1: nothing really new there that at least I could see.
Speaker 1: I haven't read the entire report. They are basically sort
Speaker 1: of reiterating what had been established before. As you say,
Speaker 1: he had about three times the lethal dose of heroin
Speaker 1: in a system while it metabolizes in a morphine that
Speaker 1: would have rendered most people, even heavy users, into a
Speaker 1: state of unconsciousness. So what's interesting, though, is that after
Speaker 1: taking that injection again three times the lethal dose, Kurt
Speaker 1: Cobain has the presence of mind and the ability to
Speaker 1: neatly and carefully pack away his drug paraphernalia kit, including
Speaker 1: putting the caps back on the syringes, putting them in
Speaker 1: their compartments and tucking those neatly away. That doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: And then, as you say, there is the matter of
Speaker 1: the shotgun which also contained or which also had attached
Speaker 1: to the end of it. A I think it's called
Speaker 1: a flash suppressor. It's a device on the end of
Speaker 1: the that you screw into the end of the shotgun barrel,
Speaker 1: which would have added an additional six inch inches to
Speaker 1: the length of the barrel. Now I'm not a hunter,
Speaker 1: but I have held a shotgun in my hands, and
Speaker 1: I know, you know that's a pretty cumbersome weapon. So
Speaker 1: as you say, to turn that around, put it, stick
Speaker 1: it in your mouth, and then have your arms would
Speaker 1: have to be long enough to reach the trigger. It's
Speaker 1: just it doesn't make any sense. There were no usable
Speaker 1: fingerprints on the weapon. There was no blood splatter, there
Speaker 1: was no brain splatter, there was no there was no
Speaker 1: sort of catastrophic exit wound that you would expect to
Speaker 1: find when one takes their life by sticking the barrel
Speaker 1: of a shotgun in their mouth. There was none of that.
Speaker 1: So there's also, of course, the suicide note, so called
Speaker 1: where the first part of the suicide note is written
Speaker 1: in one hand style, a handwriting style, the last part
Speaker 1: is written another handstyle, a handwriting style. There's also the
Speaker 1: conversations recorded conversations between Kurt and Courtney's lawyer Rosemary Carroll,
Speaker 1: and investigator Tom Grant. And again these are allegations. None
Speaker 1: has been proven in court. Courtney Love has denied all
Speaker 1: of these allegations repeatedly, but they found copies in her
Speaker 1: handbag of what they called practice sheets. It appears allegedly
Speaker 1: that Courtney Love was practicing to write in Kurt Cobain's
Speaker 1: handwriting style.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like it's always like a rushed job,
Speaker 2: like they want to get in there and they want
Speaker 2: to get it done, so there's really no investigation. And
Speaker 2: that's a really big problem with a lot of these
Speaker 2: high profile people, like they do they just want like,
Speaker 2: are cops just idiots when it comes to famous people,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like it seems like that
Speaker 2: they're just a bunch of idiots and have absolutely no
Speaker 2: idea what they're doing, and they have never worked a
Speaker 2: case in their entire life. But if some regular person
Speaker 2: is shot and killed, they find the person immediately, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like it doesn't make a lot
Speaker 2: of sense.
Speaker 1: It's so ridiculous. No, well, I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: want to cast dispersions on the rank and file police.
Speaker 1: I think most of them, uh, the overwhelming majority probably
Speaker 1: you know, are properly trained and want to do a
Speaker 1: good job and want to and want to bring the
Speaker 1: guilty to justice. I think the the decisions, perhaps uh
Speaker 1: to pull on one thread and not another, are made
Speaker 1: at a higher level perhaps uh so. For example, I
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier with with Elvis Presley, the uh the chief
Speaker 1: medical officer in Memphis deciding that Elvis died from some
Speaker 1: some kind of a cardiac event even before the toxology
Speaker 1: report came through. He made that decision. Who got to him,
Speaker 1: doctor Francisco, I don't know who got to the the
Speaker 1: the forensic specialist in the lab in California who claimed
Speaker 1: that Elvis had lethal dose or a lethal amounts of
Speaker 1: codeine in his tissue, which is just very very very
Speaker 1: improbable for a man who had a codeine allergy and
Speaker 1: knew he had a codein allergy, and everyone around him
Speaker 1: knew he had a codein allergy, you know. I get
Speaker 1: into this also with Brian Jones, who died by officially
Speaker 1: misadventure death by drowning in nineteen sixty nine at the
Speaker 1: bottom of a swimming pool and Cotchford Farm who was
Speaker 1: on the scene that that fateful night in July of
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine a gentleman by the name of tom
Speaker 1: Keylock who was the Rolling Stones fixer. Every celebrity or
Speaker 1: you know, you know rock group in the day had
Speaker 1: a fixer. You know, if there was a little bit
Speaker 1: of dirt or unseemingly unseemly behavior, they would call in
Speaker 1: the fixer to tidy things up and make sure it
Speaker 1: didn't get into the end of the press. Well that
Speaker 1: was who tom Keylock was. He was, by all accounts
Speaker 1: a schemer and a scammer and a liar and he
Speaker 1: was fired by Keith Richards because he was he was
Speaker 1: he was skimming. So what is what does tom Keylock do?
Speaker 1: He attaches himself to Brian Jones, who at this point
Speaker 1: has been essentially exiled from the group. He's retreated to
Speaker 1: the to Cotchford Farm in Sussex, England. He's now been
Speaker 1: kicked out of the band by Keith and Brian, uh
Speaker 1: and and Mick. Because the Rolling Stones are about to
Speaker 1: embark on a tour of the United States. Brian couldn't
Speaker 1: come with him because he had a drug wrap. He
Speaker 1: wouldn't get in a he wouldn't get a visa to
Speaker 1: come to the United States. So they had to replace him.
Speaker 1: Plus he had he would had spiraled out of control
Speaker 1: in the studio. He was a complete mess. He couldn't play.
Speaker 1: He would show up and the band would they would
Speaker 1: not plug in his guitar into the amp. They weren't recording.
Speaker 1: Brian didn't even realize what was happening, so he was
Speaker 1: pushed out of the way. He spiraled out of control.
Speaker 1: Keylock decides to attach himself to Brian Jones to see
Speaker 1: if he can, you know, suck some blood from a
Speaker 1: stone and who team Tom Keylock's brother, Frank Keelock, is
Speaker 1: a detective with Scotland Yard and the person that was
Speaker 1: called in to do the autopsy on Brian and rule
Speaker 1: it death by drowning or misadventure was Prime Minister Heath's
Speaker 1: personal physician, not the medical examiner from Sussex, the jurisdiction
Speaker 1: where Brian was living and died. The Prime Minister called
Speaker 1: in his own personal physician to conduct the h the autopsy.
Speaker 1: So again we have people in very high places covering
Speaker 1: up again a common thread through rock history.
Speaker 2: Is there anybody else that you think that we should
Speaker 2: cover that's in your book? I mean haven't obviously have
Speaker 2: not been able to read it. Because it's not released yet.
Speaker 2: So is there anybody else of importance that you would
Speaker 2: like to cover before we wrap up here today.
Speaker 1: Well, the book is not simply you know, mysterious deaths
Speaker 1: or murder. I mentioned some of it has to do
Speaker 1: with the supernatural. There's an entire section on curses and legends.
Speaker 1: We talk about led Zeppelin and Jimmy Page's obsession with
Speaker 1: the occultist Alistair Crowley. Jimmy Page, of course, bought Crowley's
Speaker 1: home on the shores of lock Nest, Bolskin House, where
Speaker 1: reportedly Alistair Crowley had performed a number of rituals, including
Speaker 1: an incredibly elaborate, complex ritual call the Bramalne Operation, in
Speaker 1: which he summoned demons which were supposed to be bound
Speaker 1: according to this ritual. He failed to do that. He
Speaker 1: got called away suddenly to Paris. He didn't bind these demons.
Speaker 1: The house is sold. Eventually it ends up in Jimmy
Speaker 1: Page's hands, who was a devotee of Crowley, collected all
Speaker 1: sorts of Alister Crowley artifacts and books and opened a
Speaker 1: bookshop dedicated to Croley in London called the Equinox. Crowley
Speaker 1: supposedly made some sort of a pack at Bollskin House
Speaker 1: with the other members of led Zeppelin, and shortly thereafter
Speaker 1: a lot of misfortune befalls the band, including Robert Plant
Speaker 1: and his family being involved in a near fatal accident
Speaker 1: in Greece while they were on vacation, and then the
Speaker 1: death of very tragic death of Plant's young son, Carrick.
Speaker 1: And then of course there was the sudden deaths of
Speaker 1: people sort of the periphery of the band, sound engineers
Speaker 1: and backup singers and recording engineers and so forth. And
Speaker 1: then of course the death of John Bonham in nineteen eighty,
Speaker 1: which ultimately broke up the band. So we devote an
Speaker 1: entire chapter to Aleister Crowley and led Zeppelin.
Speaker 2: Was Alistair Crowley involved with any other musicians.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he was well involved, or at least was
Speaker 1: an inspiration of course. Alistair Crowley's image appears on the
Speaker 1: album cover for Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's as a whole collage of very interesting individuals on
Speaker 1: that album cover, including Alista Crowley, I think, Edgar Allan
Speaker 1: Poe and some others. So some people might say, well, again,
Speaker 1: just clever marketing. They were just trying to, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe connect the band to some nefarious or sinister characters
Speaker 1: or interest and characters. But I mainly I focus on
Speaker 1: on Crowley, Alister Crowley and led Zeppelin. There's also a
Speaker 1: chapter on Robert Johnson, which of course predates sort of
Speaker 1: the advent of rock and roll, but he was sort
Speaker 1: of considered by some to be the godfather or grandfather
Speaker 1: of rock and roll. Of course, the infamous deal at
Speaker 1: the Crossroads with the Devil. Robert Johnson was by all
Speaker 1: accounts at best, a mediocre Delta blues guitarist who disappeared
Speaker 1: for a year and upon his return was some kind
Speaker 1: of wonder Candy had transformed miraculously, and another great Delta
Speaker 1: bluesman by the name of Sonhouse was convinced that Robert
Speaker 1: Johnson had made a deal with the devil in order
Speaker 1: to perform the way that he did.
Speaker 2: How much influence do you believe the dark arts and
Speaker 2: Luciferianism and occult ritualistic magic was and possibly still is
Speaker 2: involved within the music industry.
Speaker 1: Well as I say, I do believe in an unseen world,
Speaker 1: and I do believe you know that there are doors
Speaker 1: and portals and openings and invitations. And you know, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of bands I think who genuinely dabble
Speaker 1: in it simply for marketing purposes. I think, for example,
Speaker 1: Black Sabbath is an example. I don't think Ozzy Osbourne
Speaker 1: was was a Satanist. I don't think he, you know,
Speaker 1: was necessarily even an occultist. But they understood the power
Speaker 1: behind that kind of branding because they stood for rebellion
Speaker 1: and they were the anti establishment.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And you know, the Church was seen as part of
Speaker 1: the establishment. So a lot of bands cozied up to
Speaker 1: the occult strictly for branding and marketing purposes. But that
Speaker 1: doesn't discount the possibility that even though they weren't necessarily
Speaker 1: you know, devoted to the dark arts, that again, once
Speaker 1: you you open that door, you open that portal, I
Speaker 1: believe that you you're giving a tacit invitation to these
Speaker 1: dark forces.
Speaker 2: Do you think it's possible to do this without the
Speaker 2: influence of such dark forces?
Speaker 1: Is it possible to do it without any Yes? I
Speaker 1: suppose it is. I mean, if if God allows, you know,
Speaker 1: God willing, if you're talented, you know you can you
Speaker 1: can achieve a certain notoriety and success and fame and
Speaker 1: fortune as long as you don't make that fame and
Speaker 1: fortune your God. I think God allows that for sure.
Speaker 1: He doesn't want us to shine our to keep our
Speaker 1: talent hidden under a bushel basket, you know, if it's
Speaker 1: done in the name of of God, then I think.
Speaker 2: Sure.
Speaker 1: There are some artists I think who succeed in our
Speaker 1: are very devout, or at the very least, you know,
Speaker 1: they're not. They're not occultists, they're not Satan worshippers. Certainly
Speaker 1: that's possible. But for many I think they have, figuratively
Speaker 1: or literally perhaps even you know, made some kind of
Speaker 1: a bargain. You know, and in a sense, we all
Speaker 1: make certain bargains in our life. We decide, you know,
Speaker 1: to tell a little white lie there, or or a
Speaker 1: lie by omission here, thinking well, it's not really that important,
Speaker 1: it's just this one time. I think, to a much
Speaker 1: lesser extent many of us are guilty of that. That's
Speaker 1: kind of a bargain. We all make that kind of
Speaker 1: a bargain at one time in our life. Sometimes. I mean,
Speaker 1: they don't always have the same repercussions as they do
Speaker 1: for those those who make, you know, the ultimate bargain
Speaker 1: where the soul is the is the pawn in the prize?
Speaker 2: What do you think about the music industry now?
Speaker 1: I don't recognize the music industry now. I am of
Speaker 1: a certain vintage. You know, I grew up playing vinyl
Speaker 1: records in my basement listening to I grew up in
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies. I listened to The Doors and the
Speaker 1: Grateful Dead and Bob Dylan and the Beatles and the
Speaker 1: Stones and the Zombies, and you know, that was the
Speaker 1: music that informed my life. That was the soundtrack of
Speaker 1: my life. And you know, I should say although in
Speaker 1: some of these chapters, we take kind of a hard
Speaker 1: look and certain artists are scrutinized and perhaps criticized, like
Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones. There's a chapter on the free concert
Speaker 1: at Altamont in California in nineteen sixty nine, which ended
Speaker 1: so horribly. I'm a fan, I'm a fan of am
Speaker 1: all of this music, but today's music, to me, it
Speaker 1: just seems to be debasing the culture. Although I know
Speaker 1: I sort of argue in the book that that was
Speaker 1: sort of the intent of rock from the outset as well,
Speaker 1: to introduce sex and drugs and uh in into the culture.
Speaker 1: But at least the music had you know, harmony and
Speaker 1: melody and and well crafted lyrics, and I think you know, musicianship.
Speaker 1: I don't understand a lot of the music. Although every
Speaker 1: generation says this about the music you know that comes
Speaker 1: up after uh, it just sounds like a lot of
Speaker 1: racket and h There are some some some groups I
Speaker 1: suppose that that that I listened to. Most of those
Speaker 1: groups tend to be sort of trying to emulate a
Speaker 1: bygone era, a sound from the past. But a lot
Speaker 1: of this rap rap music, and I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: to me, it's just a racket.
Speaker 2: It feels disharmonious. I just is the best word.
Speaker 1: That's a great word. Yeah, yeah, disharmonious, discordant, discordant. And
Speaker 1: but I think a lot of art is that way now.
Speaker 1: It's almost as if, you know, the architecture art music
Speaker 1: is purposely designed. It's ugly. It's ugly. Where art is
Speaker 1: supposed to be transcendent and art is supposed to be
Speaker 1: about truth, beauty and goodness. Art is about none of
Speaker 1: those things.
Speaker 2: That's really strange time that we live in. But I
Speaker 2: think we live in the best of times. Richard. Can
Speaker 2: you let people know where they can find you online
Speaker 2: when your book comes out. Any information about you that
Speaker 2: you'd like the listeners to know.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you writer. I have a podcast. It's called
Speaker 1: Richard Sarah's Strange Planet. It drops three days a week Monday,
Speaker 1: Wednesday Friday. Well over well going on fourteen hundred episodes.
Speaker 1: It's available wherever you find podcasts. It's also available on YouTube.
Speaker 1: The website to find the podcast, the YouTube channel. I've
Speaker 1: got a monthly newsletter, a free monthly newsletter called Inner Sanctum.
Speaker 1: All of those things can be found at Strange Planet
Speaker 1: dot ca Strange Planet dot Ca. I also guest host
Speaker 1: on Coast to Coast AM several times a month. Coming
Speaker 1: up in June fourteenth and fifteenth, I believe I'll be
Speaker 1: in the Coast air Chair. I've been doing that for
Speaker 1: about fourteen years. The book Tales from the Rock and
Speaker 1: Roll Twilight Zone comes out July ninth, available now pre
Speaker 1: order at Amazon, Barnes Andnoble, Trininday dot com. For more information,
Speaker 1: you can go and you can read some samples from
Speaker 1: the book as well at The rock and Roll twilight
Speaker 1: Zone dot com The rock and Roll twilight Zone dot com.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Mother, I really appreciate it us the conversation.
Speaker 2: For everyone that's interested in checking out more of Richard's work,
Speaker 2: the link will be in the description. Please be sure
Speaker 2: to hit the thumbs up button out the channel on
Speaker 2: the Algorithm Share Subscribe at the belticon as well for notifications,
Speaker 2: and we'll see you guys next time. Richards stay with
Speaker 2: me