1 00:00:14,519 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the show. And Martin willis your host. 2 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,920 And as you can see in the background here those 3 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,280 of you watching YouTube, etc. That I am recording pre 4 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,800 recording during the day. Our guest is in Sweden. I 5 00:00:26,839 --> 00:00:30,320 didn't want him on my show at nine pm our time, 6 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,000 which is very early in the morning for him. So anyway, 7 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,640 Class Fun, I'm so excited to have him on. He's 8 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,840 been on a number of times. I do believe the 9 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:40,520 first time he was on the show is back in 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,640 twenty thirteen. And just a little bit about Class Fun. 11 00:00:44,719 --> 00:00:49,640 He's one of the most respected and influential UFO researchers 12 00:00:49,679 --> 00:00:55,719 in Europe and he's definitely the leading authority on Swedish 13 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:00,359 UFO history. We've talked about the airships and all kinds 14 00:01:00,359 --> 00:01:03,719 of very fascinating things. But he's been added for over 15 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,879 forty five years since the nineteen seventies. He's very respected. 16 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:12,599 He's very methodical, evidence based and a wonderful person. So 17 00:01:12,719 --> 00:01:15,239 glad to have him back on the show. Before I 18 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,959 get started with him, just a couple of things. Here 19 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,959 is our blog this week, and let me just pull 20 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:26,599 that up and it is this is something I had 21 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,120 Mario Woods who's been on the show a number of times, 22 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,840 sent me a clip to a I'm trying to think 23 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:37,480 what year was nineteen nineties symposium on this. Now, this 24 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:42,040 is a nineteen forty UFO an Alien Encounter, written by 25 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,799 Charles Lear. He looked into it after I sent him 26 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:50,120 some information on this. So this is fascinating because you know, 27 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,959 when it comes to the modern UFO, you know, sightings 28 00:01:53,959 --> 00:01:57,159 and encounters, we you know, just tend to think of 29 00:01:57,239 --> 00:02:00,159 nineteen forty seven onward. And so this happened back in 30 00:02:00,239 --> 00:02:06,519 nineteen forty There's all kinds of documents involved of him, 31 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,400 you know, just documenting everything as it happened. So again, 32 00:02:10,439 --> 00:02:12,400 this is a pre recorded show, but I will tell you, 33 00:02:12,439 --> 00:02:16,159 as I do often that when it comes to doing 34 00:02:16,199 --> 00:02:19,439 a pre recorded show, I do not edit anything. This 35 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:21,680 is just like doing a live show. I will be 36 00:02:21,719 --> 00:02:25,960 in chat also. This Thanksgiving is Thanksgiving here in the 37 00:02:26,039 --> 00:02:29,879 United States. Still having a show here and it's going 38 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,680 to be at eight pm Eastern time, and that's going 39 00:02:32,759 --> 00:02:38,039 to be with two professors Matthew Professor Matthew Sudaegis and 40 00:02:38,199 --> 00:02:41,639 also Kevin Kanuuth, and they are going to be talking 41 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,439 about they get some funding for the unit from their 42 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:49,159 university to UFO research, which is fascinating anyway. So that's 43 00:02:49,199 --> 00:02:52,400 coming up this Thursday. That will also be pre recorded 44 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,680 because it's Thanksgiving, so I'm going to be recording that 45 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,400 this evening and so but you can stay tuned for 46 00:02:58,479 --> 00:03:04,120 that Thursday night at eight pm Eastern and without further ado, 47 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,120 Welcome class, So good to see you again. 48 00:03:08,039 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 2: Oh it's nice to be back party in. I'm very 49 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:12,360 pleased to be with you again. 50 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,319 Speaker 1: I should say, well, thank you, thank you, And I 51 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,919 know we've talked I don't know, I think six or 52 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,080 seven times over the years. But you know, as I said, 53 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,879 you are such a respected person when it comes to 54 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,199 you know, Europe and this topic and your archives of 55 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,759 the AUF is that what is it called y. 56 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 2: A if you archives? 57 00:03:33,879 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: Yes, that's the biggest in the world. I had to 58 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,960 talk with David Marler recently and we were talking about that, 59 00:03:40,039 --> 00:03:42,759 and you know, it's amazing what you have there. And 60 00:03:43,199 --> 00:03:48,000 have you ever measured the linear feet or meters of 61 00:03:48,159 --> 00:03:49,199 books you have there? 62 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's oh no, I should say it's four point 63 00:03:54,280 --> 00:04:00,879 three kilometers. What would that be. It's not totally books, documents, 64 00:04:00,919 --> 00:04:06,319 some films and pictures and paraphernalia. It's four thousand square 65 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,680 feet around. 66 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,719 Speaker 1: Around amazing, amazing, And as you see the people who 67 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,800 are watching this live on YouTube, you have you're right 68 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,360 in the background. Are you in that space right now? 69 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,519 Speaker 2: Or is this is my own home? It's like a 70 00:04:21,639 --> 00:04:25,199 small af you. I have ten thousand books here and 71 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:30,360 the hundreds of files, so it's of a few as well. 72 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: Now, let me ask you something because this kind of 73 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,720 goes along with talk I've had with Dave Marlin. There 74 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,759 are a lot of situations where there are longtime researchers 75 00:04:39,399 --> 00:04:41,920 and you know, you take this case which happened to 76 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,199 you know, someone from Project Bluebook years ago, and there 77 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,879 are things you know ended up in like a dumpster 78 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,240 in a you know, an aestate sale and all that. 79 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:57,240 So do you have like leads from certain researchers that 80 00:04:57,319 --> 00:04:59,800 are getting on in years and you know one of 81 00:05:00,079 --> 00:05:02,720 has things along, how do you find your material? 82 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:08,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question. I bring back around two 83 00:05:08,759 --> 00:05:14,399 three hundred kilos two point three ton of UFO stuff 84 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:21,560 and also paranormal stuff, I should say every year. That's 85 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,240 a huge it's many many palettes. 86 00:05:26,199 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, And. 87 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: I mean it caused that contact with people all around 88 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,240 Europe and also in the US, but mostly in Europe 89 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,720 and in Great Britain of course, so I know when 90 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:43,920 people are pausing or when things are nearly going to 91 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,199 the dumpster. We have been too late, of course sometimes, 92 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,560 but we have also been right on time many many times. 93 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,680 We saved the Flying Sauce Review files many years ago, 94 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,759 which is one of the largest UFO files you can 95 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,279 find in the world. It's fantastic depositorial knowledge and we 96 00:06:04,319 --> 00:06:07,680 have so many different countries. I went to Russia in 97 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,920 the early nineties and I save copies of the KGB 98 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,959 files there. So I'm constantly looking for stuff. 99 00:06:16,959 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 1: And is this accessible to anyone that wants to do research. 100 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. We have people coming every second week from 101 00:06:26,319 --> 00:06:31,319 abroad and from Sweden. Every week. We had two guys 102 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,040 from France. Just the other week we had a guy 103 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,759 flying in from Tokyo once for three days looking at 104 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,680 our Japanese files. We have lots of researchers and we 105 00:06:42,759 --> 00:06:46,600 work together with two different universities here in Sweden who 106 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,600 send their students to us, and one of the universities 107 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:56,399 have a be course in yourpology. This year we are 108 00:06:56,399 --> 00:06:57,720 helping out with that as well. 109 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: Oh that's so great, so great, and you know, it 110 00:07:01,399 --> 00:07:03,639 kind of just shows that, you know, the stigma is 111 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,839 softened worldwide, not just you know it has in the 112 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,240 United States. We consider it since twenty seventeen in the 113 00:07:10,279 --> 00:07:13,720 New York Times article late twenty seventeen that things have 114 00:07:13,839 --> 00:07:16,959 softened up as far as stigma. Of course, there's the 115 00:07:17,199 --> 00:07:19,000 film that just came out. I did a review on 116 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,319 an Age of Disclosure. A lot of a lot of 117 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,040 people are talking about that, and you know, I mean, 118 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,000 for instance of someone that I work with in the 119 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:31,480 antiques and arts appraisals that I do, she and her 120 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,920 husband sat down and actually rented the movie, and you know, 121 00:07:35,079 --> 00:07:37,600 they're like, oh my god, there's really something to this. 122 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:42,720 You know, you're not crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I 123 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:43,720 like to aspect to that. 124 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, many things has happened since last time we met 125 00:07:46,959 --> 00:07:51,879 and talked down. It's easier now, I think here in Sweden. 126 00:07:51,959 --> 00:07:55,199 It's been quite easy for many years for us in Europe. 127 00:07:55,199 --> 00:07:59,000 For Sweden and a few are giving lectures every week 128 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:05,560 around Sweden and it's always full. Of the audience is 129 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:10,600 also always full. So I giving interviews every week with 130 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:16,800 newspapers TV radio, and I'm never ridiculed. They're always taken 131 00:08:16,879 --> 00:08:17,839 me seriously. 132 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: And that's that. Since we first started talking, you told 133 00:08:22,639 --> 00:08:24,839 me that they always take you seriously, which I think 134 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,079 is great, you know, I mean, you know what I mean. 135 00:08:29,439 --> 00:08:32,799 In the United States, you'd always hear the X Files 136 00:08:32,879 --> 00:08:36,240 music in the back anytime they were talking about a UFO, 137 00:08:36,399 --> 00:08:38,759 and you know, there was always you know, the chuckling 138 00:08:38,759 --> 00:08:42,200 and all that. And I just uncovered on my YouTube 139 00:08:42,279 --> 00:08:46,919 channel you can listen to the O'Hare incident the FAA 140 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,320 and you know there was a lot of like laughing, 141 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,360 oh UFO, you know like that. 142 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:52,519 Speaker 2: You know that. 143 00:08:52,519 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: Of course I was back in two thousand and six, 144 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,000 but still, you know, I mean, that's what a lot 145 00:08:58,039 --> 00:09:00,679 of people have had to deal with for or you know, 146 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:02,080 decades and decades. 147 00:09:03,279 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 2: You know. 148 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: So when I opened, I told you about this blog 149 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,759 that I have. I told everyone about this blog. I 150 00:09:08,759 --> 00:09:13,159 have nineteen forty an encounter do you have that you're 151 00:09:13,159 --> 00:09:16,360 aware of, and all your filesand things some earlier, you know, 152 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,519 pre nineteen forty seven. A lot of things dating prior 153 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:19,879 to that. 154 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,519 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, lots of it, lots of it. We have 155 00:09:23,639 --> 00:09:28,720 of course, the the ghost Flyer the nineteen thirties. 156 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: What did I call them ghost ships? I think, yeah, 157 00:09:31,519 --> 00:09:32,000 we don't know. 158 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,639 Speaker 2: We have the ghost rockets in nineteen forties rockets. We 159 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,639 also have the ghost flyer. We love the world ghost. 160 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,320 Here in Sweden we had a ghost flyer in the 161 00:09:41,399 --> 00:09:47,480 nineteen thirties with hundreds and hundreds of sightings all around Sweden. 162 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,480 So yes, we have a lot of older material in 163 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:52,399 our files. 164 00:09:53,399 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: Now I do remember class when to interview, even as 165 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,360 far back as the first time you said that theroduction 166 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,759 thing is very white. When it comes to reports in sweeteness, 167 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:06,159 that still the same way. 168 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,799 Speaker 2: It is the same. We have very very few reports 169 00:10:10,879 --> 00:10:14,840 about abductions. We have quite a few reports as well 170 00:10:15,159 --> 00:10:21,120 about entities humanoids. I just the other week talk to 171 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:26,320 a woman who in nineteen seventy one saw a very 172 00:10:26,399 --> 00:10:31,559 very strange kind of humanoid, even two humanoids. They were 173 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,639 traveling on a train. She was bicycling. It's within the 174 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,200 middle of the day and she sees its train coming 175 00:10:40,279 --> 00:10:43,320 in front of her and she stops because it's passing 176 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:48,120 her path and the very last carriage it's full of 177 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,440 scrap metal, and on the top of the scrap metal 178 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:56,879 she can see two entities looking for something. And suddenly 179 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,480 the two entities are appearing on the other end of 180 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,279 the carriage and standing in front of her, looking at her, 181 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,679 and she can see they have this very very tight suit, 182 00:11:10,519 --> 00:11:15,879 and they have helmets on very very small heads, extremely 183 00:11:15,919 --> 00:11:19,679 small heads, and the belt and they were holding their 184 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:25,639 hands at the belt and she felt, really she was 185 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,840 felt fear that she was not because she shouldn't be there. 186 00:11:30,639 --> 00:11:34,799 And after that, those two humanoids were suddenly at the 187 00:11:34,799 --> 00:11:38,720 other end of the scrap pile again, keeping on whatever 188 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,120 they were doing. And she was by sitting away from 189 00:11:42,159 --> 00:11:46,080 the train. So it's a very very strange story. Wow, 190 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:47,200 very very special. 191 00:11:47,639 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: Did she notice was anyone else witnessing this that she was? 192 00:11:52,399 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 2: No, she was alone. She was traveling to a bookshop 193 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,720 and too get the book. And then she traveled back 194 00:11:59,799 --> 00:12:03,039 and the train was gone, and of course the entities 195 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:04,120 were also gone. 196 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: And did you actually interview this person in person or 197 00:12:08,879 --> 00:12:10,320 was this over the phone or some. 198 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 2: Type of Oh, it was several talks over the phone. 199 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,480 She lives quite far away from me, but I got 200 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:22,039 a very good impression of her. And she she said 201 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,080 that she had another friend that you were telling the 202 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,960 story too. When she came back home, and the friend corroborates. 203 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,320 So she was very, very excited when she came back 204 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,720 and told the story to her. So that's the only 205 00:12:35,799 --> 00:12:37,919 corroboration I could get. I'm sorry to say. 206 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,759 Speaker 1: So, is this basically an outlier? I mean, were there 207 00:12:41,799 --> 00:12:46,039 any other have any has anyone else ever you know, 208 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,919 reported something like this. It's very strange. With the small heads. 209 00:12:48,919 --> 00:12:51,799 It's usually hear, you know, the very large heads, and 210 00:12:52,039 --> 00:12:55,120 you know, depending, but it's very strange. 211 00:12:55,639 --> 00:12:59,879 Speaker 2: It is strange. But I think the red thread that 212 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,960 goes all over the UFO enigma is that it is 213 00:13:05,039 --> 00:13:10,440 not coherent. It's so diverse if you're looking into cases. 214 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,960 I've been into this for more than fifty years, and 215 00:13:13,039 --> 00:13:16,720 if I look into cases, they are so diverse. You 216 00:13:16,759 --> 00:13:22,039 can get anything and everything. So well, why not small heads? Right? 217 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: I Actually I was having a conversation with Greg Bishop 218 00:13:27,039 --> 00:13:29,919 a while back, and you know, we both agreed that 219 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,639 the ones that are really weird, you know, just seem 220 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,039 even more credible. The things that you know that don't 221 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:40,799 make any sense. It seems like, you know, there's almost 222 00:13:41,039 --> 00:13:44,759 like it's more credible sometimes in the average person talking 223 00:13:44,799 --> 00:13:47,440 about a UFO sading. You know, it's just an opinion. 224 00:13:47,519 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 2: It's yeah, but I agree with you. I can give 225 00:13:50,279 --> 00:13:52,679 another story that is even stranger if you want to 226 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:53,000 hear it. 227 00:13:53,039 --> 00:13:53,759 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I love to. 228 00:13:54,039 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 2: Yes, I talked to She was only eleven years of 229 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:03,519 age at that time. It was in the nineteen sixty 230 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,120 nine seventy around there, and she was out playing in 231 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:12,200 the snow in the western part of Sweden. The sun 232 00:14:12,279 --> 00:14:15,879 was shining. She was playing in front of her family's house, 233 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,679 and suddenly she saw to the right of her a 234 00:14:20,759 --> 00:14:27,000 glimpse something coming down from the heavens, like small small 235 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:33,840 flakes of snow, as ssembling to build a house. This 236 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,639 house started to travel towards her, and she saw at 237 00:14:38,679 --> 00:14:41,919 the porch of this house, which was very well built. 238 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,840 She said, there were two people standing, a man and 239 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,320 probably his wife. The man was holding his arm over 240 00:14:50,759 --> 00:14:55,159 his wife's shoulders that were clad in old, very old clothes. 241 00:14:55,919 --> 00:14:59,120 And when they passed her, they turned their heads and 242 00:14:59,159 --> 00:15:02,879 they followed her with her eyes and the house posted 243 00:15:02,919 --> 00:15:06,480 in front of her house, so you can see it 244 00:15:06,519 --> 00:15:09,159 was very very near, just a couple of meters in 245 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,720 front of her, and then it disappeared to the left 246 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,960 and turned into snowflakes again that flew up into the 247 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,559 heavens and went away. Wow. 248 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't get much weirder than that one. You know, 249 00:15:22,279 --> 00:15:27,120 you know you would. Now, here's just theories, you know, 250 00:15:27,159 --> 00:15:29,720 because a lot of people say that, you know, there's 251 00:15:29,879 --> 00:15:33,840 screen memories and things like that, you know, like these 252 00:15:33,879 --> 00:15:37,559 type of things happen with the UFO encounter. Whether that's 253 00:15:37,639 --> 00:15:40,039 real or not, I don't know. But when they talk 254 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,840 about these screen memories, like they thought they were looking 255 00:15:42,879 --> 00:15:45,399 at a deer or or you know what I mean, 256 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,639 But maybe it was a UFO coming down and a 257 00:15:48,759 --> 00:15:52,480 screen memory of making it look like something we'd be 258 00:15:52,559 --> 00:15:55,639 familiar with, you know, a house and a couple and 259 00:15:55,679 --> 00:15:57,399 all that. I mean, just the thought. I mean, I 260 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,639 have no idea, but that's a great one. Yeah, I mean, 261 00:16:01,679 --> 00:16:03,759 who would make something up like that unless they were, 262 00:16:03,799 --> 00:16:09,360 you know, eye on something. You know, really, that's really crazy. 263 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 2: No. I believe her, I really believe her. I talked 264 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,360 to her quite a lot of times, but she didn't 265 00:16:15,399 --> 00:16:19,200 understand it. She ran into the house and threw herself 266 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,039 at the bed and started to cry. She was so 267 00:16:22,159 --> 00:16:23,840 shocked by what happened. 268 00:16:24,919 --> 00:16:28,919 Speaker 1: Right right, So also there was something that there was 269 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:34,000 like scientists findings on these is it willow wisps? Or 270 00:16:34,039 --> 00:16:35,039 are these lights? 271 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:35,559 Speaker 2: Yeah? 272 00:16:35,679 --> 00:16:38,559 Speaker 1: This phenomena? What was going on with that? 273 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very interesting because in New Scientists October the 274 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,159 eleventh issue there was a report about the scientist who 275 00:16:48,159 --> 00:16:52,960 had now conducted an experiment that could explain a part 276 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,240 at least of the will of the wisp mystery, because 277 00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:00,480 so many people have seen those balls of light coming 278 00:17:00,519 --> 00:17:06,279 out of water and marshes or whatever traveling in front 279 00:17:06,279 --> 00:17:10,759 of them, and now these scientists has shown that small 280 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:17,680 bubbles of methane. Methane is of course created by molding 281 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,880 what you say, sea grass and whatever is on the 282 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:28,640 bottom of the lake, and when it yeah organics, of course, 283 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:33,240 when it collides with small bubbles of air, a small 284 00:17:34,519 --> 00:17:42,000 small spark could ignite the methane. So when it appears 285 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,400 at the surface of the water, if you come up 286 00:17:45,519 --> 00:17:50,599 as some glowing square. And this is very interesting because 287 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,240 in the winter of nineteen twenty one nineteen twenty two, 288 00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:58,680 there was an extraordinary part of events in the western 289 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:03,000 part of Sweden, a lake called Lake Latnet, quite near 290 00:18:03,559 --> 00:18:07,119 the border of Norway. They saw those bowls of light 291 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,880 coming up every night from this lake. So eventually a 292 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,960 scientist went there and he could the first night he 293 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,920 was there, he could see this huge ball of light 294 00:18:19,599 --> 00:18:23,400 three meters in diameter, which is huge, taller than me, 295 00:18:23,799 --> 00:18:27,759 twice the hey to me, and it was traveling and 296 00:18:27,799 --> 00:18:34,880 dividing into smaller bubbles, traveling in between trees, creating long 297 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:40,960 elongated structures as well. And that is not possible to 298 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,400 explain right now. We could now understand that it could 299 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,960 be created by des ignition from the bubbles colliding, but 300 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:55,519 how could it be sustained for such such a long time. 301 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 1: That is the mystery mm and plus forming that's very unusual. 302 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:06,200 And then you're saying going in between trees, that's you know. 303 00:19:06,279 --> 00:19:08,480 And a lot of people who talked about seeing these 304 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,759 type of things are under the impression that they're intelligently controlled, 305 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,039 you know, that's what you hear. A lot of people 306 00:19:15,039 --> 00:19:18,160 say they do believe the way it was reacting and acting. 307 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,720 I mean, that's I would say. Would you say that 308 00:19:21,799 --> 00:19:24,319 the orbs, I guess you would call them as one 309 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,640 of the most reported sightings. 310 00:19:28,279 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, orbs. When I first got in touch with orbs, 311 00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:38,880 it was from pictures taken by people with flash cameras 312 00:19:39,039 --> 00:19:43,480 or with flashes in their mobiles, and of course that 313 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:49,440 is just small specs of water in the air or dust. 314 00:19:50,079 --> 00:19:52,000 I can do a picture like that at any time. 315 00:19:52,039 --> 00:19:55,039 I won't hear at my house. So that kind of 316 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,440 orbs that you can get on your camera. I'm not 317 00:19:57,559 --> 00:20:01,880 very impressed of the warps. That more looks like the 318 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,359 will of the wisps orbs, and they are more interesting 319 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,200 and as you said, they look like they are intelligent 320 00:20:08,319 --> 00:20:13,240 from time to time. So we don't really know. If 321 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,519 you read all eighteen hundreds newspapers from the US especially, 322 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:23,880 you can find piles of observations of balls of light 323 00:20:24,279 --> 00:20:29,119 traveling for minutes, for more than minutes, which is very 324 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,000 hard to explain. And you have the ball lighting, of course, 325 00:20:32,039 --> 00:20:35,680 which is not fully understood either. We don't understand why 326 00:20:35,759 --> 00:20:40,240 ball lighting, this ball of light created bies. We think 327 00:20:41,839 --> 00:20:45,039 lighting in the sky, how it can sustain itself for 328 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,759 so long time, It should evaporate in just seconds, but 329 00:20:49,839 --> 00:20:51,720 it doesn't do that. 330 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: It is very strange, very strange. And you know, I 331 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,519 know lights in the sky is the number one. They 332 00:20:58,559 --> 00:21:02,319 always say that's the number one that you know that 333 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,000 people report and you know I mean, I see a 334 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,920 lot of times I see I've talked about on this 335 00:21:09,039 --> 00:21:11,200 show that a lot of times I'll be in the 336 00:21:11,599 --> 00:21:15,640 hot tub outside and looking up and you know, you 337 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,680 see a lot of you know, meteors and you know, 338 00:21:19,799 --> 00:21:21,960 things like that that are always fun. And that's where 339 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,880 I had my UFO signing, was actually any hot tub 340 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,240 in California. But so, yeah, you're out there observing the 341 00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:32,799 sky and you never know what you're going to see, 342 00:21:33,079 --> 00:21:35,400 but a lot of times it is lights in the sky. 343 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,519 And you know, there's been a number of times that 344 00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:42,039 I've seen something really quite interesting. But I'm always refraining 345 00:21:42,079 --> 00:21:44,680 from saying that. I like to be able to keep 346 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:49,000 my credibility good, you know, so I'm really careful about 347 00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:51,000 saying whether I had a UFO signing or not. But 348 00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:54,960 I did see something pretty strange that was other than 349 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:55,440 you know. 350 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,519 Speaker 2: Another thing is that if you look at what kind 351 00:21:58,559 --> 00:22:04,960 of pictures UFO groups are getting from the public, it's 352 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:10,079 ninety nine percent balls of light in the distance in 353 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:14,279 night time. I look through a couple of issues of 354 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:19,359 New Phone Journal. It's all specs of lights. It's not 355 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,440 a single picture of any craft or anything that could 356 00:22:23,559 --> 00:22:28,480 make my heart pounds a little faster, and to UFO Sweden, 357 00:22:28,839 --> 00:22:31,480 we get around one hundred and one or and fifty 358 00:22:31,519 --> 00:22:35,160 pictures every year, and nearly every one of them are 359 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,759 just specs of light. So I think the UFO phenomena, 360 00:22:40,759 --> 00:22:45,440 I think it's several phenomena really are scarce. It's not 361 00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:50,400 very common, because if it was a common phenomena, you 362 00:22:50,519 --> 00:22:53,519 should see pictures, good pictures. We don't. 363 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's it's this before. If I had 364 00:23:01,279 --> 00:23:04,160 a camera right next to me when I had my 365 00:23:04,279 --> 00:23:07,839 UFO sighting, I probably wouldn't have thought to grab it. 366 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,359 I would now, but at that time it was like 367 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,440 a new paradigm, something in my life that I didn't 368 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,440 really think would be so, but I understand. I remember 369 00:23:17,519 --> 00:23:19,839 when we had our first conversation. You told me that 370 00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:25,359 you and your wife were driving back from something, a 371 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,079 party or something whatever it was, and you both experienced something. 372 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,519 And I think what you said is key to anyone 373 00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:36,279 that has a UFO sighting. You asked her not to 374 00:23:36,319 --> 00:23:39,640 speak about it, and you both went in separate rooms 375 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,839 and wrote down what you saw, maybe drew what you saw, whatever. 376 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,000 I think that is some of the best advice you 377 00:23:45,039 --> 00:23:47,559 could give. To anyone out there who has a UFO 378 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,720 sighting with a witness next to you is not to 379 00:23:50,799 --> 00:23:51,440 talk about it. 380 00:23:51,799 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. We're sitting in the middle of the night, 381 00:23:55,079 --> 00:24:02,119 was a post midnight or something like that, sitting there writing, drawing, 382 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,440 and after that we spoke to each other. 383 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,039 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And you know it's the same you think 384 00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:14,000 about all these major encounters that you have and when 385 00:24:14,039 --> 00:24:17,799 the people are separated, you know. I was just thinking 386 00:24:17,839 --> 00:24:20,240 today about the alleg ash incident that happened in Maine 387 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,720 in the late nineteen seventies and when and that was 388 00:24:24,799 --> 00:24:28,240 a suppressed memory. They all had suppressed memories for about 389 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,240 ten years. And then I think it was Ray Fowler 390 00:24:30,319 --> 00:24:32,920 maybe interviewed them. I can't remember who it was, I think, 391 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,400 but to make sure, you know, he said, don't talk 392 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,319 to each other. You know, but there's going to be 393 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:43,039 that contamination of you know, because of the way our 394 00:24:43,079 --> 00:24:47,200 memories work. You know, if someone interjects, you know, their 395 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,480 thoughts into theirs, that can trickle over into your when 396 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,839 you're trying to recall something. So it's very important to 397 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,400 keep things separate if possible. 398 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, we people want to not to 399 00:25:00,599 --> 00:25:05,559 get angry with each other. We want to to be nice. 400 00:25:05,839 --> 00:25:08,359 So if you say I saw a square and I 401 00:25:08,599 --> 00:25:12,079 thought it was a triangle, you may not say that, 402 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,839 you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, it may have been a square, 403 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:17,200 may have been a square. 404 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,759 Speaker 1: And you know you're bringing up another point too, is 405 00:25:21,559 --> 00:25:23,599 there are so many people that I've talked to over 406 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,720 the years that they will be with someone and they'll 407 00:25:27,759 --> 00:25:30,359 talk about it and one person did see a square 408 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,519 and the other person did see a triangle. One person 409 00:25:32,559 --> 00:25:35,000 saws cigar and the other one saw a disc, you know, 410 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,119 or you know, I mean, or one person didn't see 411 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,039 anything at all, or even remember that they saw anything. 412 00:25:42,079 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 2: You know. 413 00:25:42,279 --> 00:25:45,559 Speaker 1: I mean, there's it's you know, I don't know what 414 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,319 that's about, but it's interesting. 415 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's very much a human I think 416 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,640 we want to be like the other guy. We are 417 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:04,519 seeking people that things like us. We are. We are 418 00:26:04,559 --> 00:26:10,200 getting into societies that are thinking like us, doing like us. 419 00:26:10,519 --> 00:26:13,839 If I if I have, if I'm if I'm voting 420 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,519 to the right, I'm not seeking to go into a 421 00:26:16,599 --> 00:26:21,400 leftist society, of course, I don't tell that. Not the party. Whatever. 422 00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:25,960 We want to seek, what we are to be able 423 00:26:26,079 --> 00:26:27,440 to be what we. 424 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 1: Are right now, are there any sightings and all that 425 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,119 you are aware of when it comes to mostly Sweden 426 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:44,119 that we're considered like a high amount of witnesses, like 427 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,599 any mass type of sighting, as they say. 428 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, one role I think I could say is that 429 00:26:52,079 --> 00:26:56,160 the more witnesses we have, the more likely it is 430 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,839 that it's a mundane natural phenomena. 431 00:26:59,599 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. 432 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 2: If there are just a few, it's more problematic. So 433 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,640 the mass sightings we had in Sweden has always turned 434 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:16,720 out to be like crashing satellites or bowlights or things 435 00:27:16,759 --> 00:27:17,119 like that. 436 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,799 Speaker 1: And what about There was a Now it may have 437 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,880 not been Sweden, but it was somewhere over in that 438 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:30,079 general direction where there was an upper atmosphere rocket failure 439 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,759 and it's the most incredible swirl in the sky. And 440 00:27:33,799 --> 00:27:36,559 it was reported with you know what I'm talking. 441 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,319 Speaker 2: About, Yeah, I know what they're talking about. It was 442 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,160 in Norway, but also in the north of Sweden, so 443 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,359 we could see it from the north of Sweden as well. 444 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,559 It was a Bulaga missile. It was a test from 445 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,279 a submarine, the Russian submarine. We knew about it because 446 00:27:53,319 --> 00:27:56,079 the Russians had posted on the Internet that they were 447 00:27:56,319 --> 00:28:00,839 doing experiments at that time, so it was easy to check. 448 00:28:01,599 --> 00:28:06,960 And one of those missiles got the stray because it 449 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,079 got the leakage. It was starting to tumbling like this, 450 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,079 swirling around, and when it swirled around, it created a 451 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,079 very very nice pattern in the sky that looks like 452 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:19,000 it was drawn. 453 00:28:19,839 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: It was beautiful. 454 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,759 Speaker 2: I looked fantastic. I mean, it's credible. It doesn't really 455 00:28:25,799 --> 00:28:27,319 look real. 456 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: Right, I'm going to see if I can find that 457 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:36,240 while we're looking, while we're while we're talking. But as 458 00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:40,359 far as the let's talk a little bit about the 459 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:47,200 AFU and how was that funded and how did that 460 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,000 get started? I know you are you a co director 461 00:28:50,119 --> 00:28:50,920 or something of that. 462 00:28:52,319 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 2: I'm a director for a f you right now, But 463 00:28:55,839 --> 00:28:58,039 I was not the co founder. It was a couple 464 00:28:58,079 --> 00:29:00,680 of my my friends have founded it in ninety seventy three, 465 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,680 and we are funded by around fifty people who are 466 00:29:05,799 --> 00:29:07,759 putting the money into this. And we also have this 467 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:13,880 a few shop and we had this white Weekend. We 468 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,680 have not Black Friday, we have White Weekend and we 469 00:29:17,799 --> 00:29:23,359 sold for nearly five thousand dollars last weekend. We have 470 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,079 a loads of fantastic books and magazines that you cannot 471 00:29:27,119 --> 00:29:31,000 find anywhere in the world surplus because we have so 472 00:29:31,079 --> 00:29:34,480 many extra copies of stuff, so we are selling that 473 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,359 kind of income for us as well. But we have 474 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,839 no incomes from the community or the state or whatever. 475 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,559 It's only what we can achieve ourselves. 476 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:53,039 Speaker 1: Wow, that's amazing. And I'm going to post the incident 477 00:29:53,079 --> 00:29:55,799 I was talking about in the show notes, but here 478 00:29:55,839 --> 00:29:57,720 it is up on the screen for those of you 479 00:29:57,759 --> 00:30:01,079 who are watching. I don't know if that's exactly the one, 480 00:30:01,119 --> 00:30:04,960 but yeah, it is. It is. That is rather beautiful. 481 00:30:06,119 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 2: It's fantastic. It's like you're painting. But it was happening 482 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,759 in real time, and we got pictures on Sweden as well. 483 00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:15,559 And one thing you should know, this was not the 484 00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:19,640 first time. When I lived in Lulio, which it's quite 485 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:24,720 near the Polar Circle, we got reports quite often from 486 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,200 Russian rocket launches from Plesetsk, but at that time was 487 00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:35,559 a secret cosmodrome and sometimes their rockets gone astrae as 488 00:30:35,599 --> 00:30:39,839 well and created this swirl, so it was not unique. 489 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:41,720 It was one of several. 490 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say about a month ago we had 491 00:30:45,359 --> 00:30:49,839 this happened. See this image right here. This was over 492 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,480 Maine and all along the eastern seaboard everybody was seeing this, 493 00:30:54,559 --> 00:30:59,440 but it was basically a launch from SpaceX I believe 494 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,519 it was, but but people were seeing it and it 495 00:31:02,599 --> 00:31:06,279 was all over Facebook. That's the difference between you know, 496 00:31:06,359 --> 00:31:09,680 the early times and now. If there's a mass sighting, 497 00:31:10,279 --> 00:31:13,319 you know, you're going to get all these people that 498 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,839 will post on Facebook. And the problem is you go 499 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,119 back to the sighting we're talking about earlier, you know, 500 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,759 this one in particular, and there's probably a lot of 501 00:31:23,759 --> 00:31:27,119 people that saw that that are were horrified and probably 502 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,000 never found out exactly what it is. It's probably a 503 00:31:30,039 --> 00:31:33,000 percentage of people, yes they saw a UFO. 504 00:31:33,519 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 2: They're still speculating about some kind of a time travel 505 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,680 tunnel or to be you know, but it's just a 506 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,759 Russian a Russian missile. And the picture you show me 507 00:31:46,839 --> 00:31:50,559 from the US, I have several pictures exactly like that 508 00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:54,039 from Sweden as well, because when you're launching from the 509 00:31:54,119 --> 00:32:00,839 Vandenberg base in California, the first and second orbits are 510 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,640 pausing Sweden, and when they are losing the first stage 511 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,359 and the second stage is uniting. You can see it 512 00:32:08,759 --> 00:32:11,079 exactly like that over Sweden as well. 513 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:18,559 Speaker 1: Amazing. Yeah, So yeah, I mean I was actually, oh, 514 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,759 last year, I was again in my hot t top down 515 00:32:21,759 --> 00:32:27,119 in South Carolina and I was out and I saw 516 00:32:28,119 --> 00:32:31,359 the what is it called Elon. 517 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 2: Musk starting starting charlink. 518 00:32:34,119 --> 00:32:36,279 Speaker 1: Of course, and I filmed it. I do have a 519 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,200 I did film it, but I mean I can totally 520 00:32:39,359 --> 00:32:42,559 understand when someone looks up and they go, oh my god, 521 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,200 you know what is that? You know, it's really astounding. 522 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,440 It's amazing to see like one after another after another 523 00:32:50,519 --> 00:32:53,359 after another, just you know, moving along. It's really crazy, 524 00:32:53,799 --> 00:32:54,880 amazing what we can do. 525 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, Martin, I'm a member of the Eurouphonet, 526 00:32:59,559 --> 00:33:04,160 which is European network of serious upologists, and a couple 527 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:08,359 of years ago we checked our statistics and it showed 528 00:33:08,359 --> 00:33:12,680 that starlings were I think the most prominent thing that 529 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,519 people are reported to any country in Europe that year. 530 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,119 Speaker 1: Wow. Well yeah, so yeah, if you're out there. I 531 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,759 had a friend that was a good friend that's not 532 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:30,400 into UFOs, and he was he was visiting Sedona, of 533 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,839 all places where a lot of crazy things seem to happen, 534 00:33:33,599 --> 00:33:36,119 and he thought for sure, he was all excited to 535 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,640 finally tell me that, you know, he actually saw a 536 00:33:38,839 --> 00:33:41,640 UFO and then found out, you know, so a lot 537 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,400 of people, a lot of people do realize that, you know, 538 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,079 this is this is what it is before they you 539 00:33:47,119 --> 00:33:50,319 don't go reporting it. But yeah, here's a here's a 540 00:33:50,359 --> 00:33:51,599 good image of that right there. 541 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the perfect image of the Starlings. 542 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:58,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, the one I saw it seemed probably further away, 543 00:33:58,519 --> 00:34:00,680 you know, but you could. You had to look really 544 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,759 hard to see it, you know. But I did get it. 545 00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:05,480 I did catch it on the film. But anyway, so 546 00:34:06,839 --> 00:34:10,199 I would like to talk a little bit more about 547 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,760 you know what I know, I started talking about it, 548 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,679 but at the af you is that what? I'm sorry? 549 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:18,280 Speaker 2: Is that? What? 550 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:25,679 Speaker 1: Of course that's the documents. You mentioned that you have 551 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,000 a lot of repeats and things like that, and you 552 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,119 you offer them for sale, will you? Actually, you know, 553 00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:34,960 there are some really good UFO books out there that 554 00:34:35,119 --> 00:34:38,559 I know that people are looking for. And when you 555 00:34:38,599 --> 00:34:41,880 say you have repeat copies, you probably have dozens of 556 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:43,840 repeat copies, right yeah. 557 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And not only UFOs, we have fantastic copies 558 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,880 of old paranormal literature from the eighteen hundreds, for. 559 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 1: Example, eighteen hundreds. 560 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:54,159 Speaker 2: Wow. 561 00:34:54,519 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and do you think there's since we're on this topic, 562 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,440 do you think there's a crossover, I mean speculating, do 563 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:09,960 you think there's some type of crossover between paranormal and UFOs? 564 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,679 Speaker 2: Again, I do think that. I don't think there is 565 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,599 a crossover. I can not exactly pinpoint what it is, 566 00:35:16,639 --> 00:35:21,079 but you can see there are similarities. It's like something 567 00:35:21,159 --> 00:35:25,199 is happening in the part of our world that is 568 00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:29,360 meeting another part of our world. It's not really an 569 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,320 explanation as you can hear, but absolutely I can see 570 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:39,800 similarities between when people are meeting entities of other descriptions 571 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,079 as well and humanoids. 572 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,639 Speaker 1: And did you write me did you say you were 573 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,400 on with You were on with Jesse Michaels recently. 574 00:35:52,519 --> 00:35:57,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, just a couple of months ago. First I went 575 00:35:57,119 --> 00:36:01,760 on Norway together with Yes Theory and Jesse Michaels and 576 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,519 his team. We were filming together with UFO Norway. We 577 00:36:05,519 --> 00:36:09,800 were out looking for a crashed ghost rocket that landed 578 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,920 on one day. Yeah, it landed on the lake in Norway. 579 00:36:14,199 --> 00:36:16,760 We have so many examples, you know. This is just 580 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:21,159 one in nineteen ninety five, I think it was, and 581 00:36:21,639 --> 00:36:26,280 it landed there in July and two witnesses, very good 582 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,800 a man and his son It was in July in 583 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,079 the middle of the day, around eleven o'clock and they 584 00:36:32,159 --> 00:36:35,559 heard this sound and this craft, you must call it 585 00:36:35,559 --> 00:36:40,599 a craft, came flying and then elongated with small things 586 00:36:40,639 --> 00:36:45,760 on the side, turning, landing and sinking, which is the 587 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,719 modest oper andy of the ghost rockets. Really, we have 588 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,559 so many examples. And the thing, Martin, is that July 589 00:36:53,639 --> 00:36:59,480 mid day, nice weather, many witnesses a small lake. That 590 00:36:59,679 --> 00:37:03,719 is the prescription. So we have so many examples like. 591 00:37:03,679 --> 00:37:06,519 Speaker 1: That, but nothing was ever found. 592 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,360 Speaker 2: No, we have been looking for for a few Now 593 00:37:11,119 --> 00:37:13,079 we have another one in the north of Sweden. We 594 00:37:13,119 --> 00:37:16,440 are going back there. I hope next year we have 595 00:37:16,559 --> 00:37:19,679 this radar return. We can see that something is resting 596 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:25,519 in the mud couple meters down. We must look at 597 00:37:25,559 --> 00:37:29,639 it with another kind of ground penetrating radar so we 598 00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:32,800 can see it in three dimensions and then we can 599 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,000 tell if it's worthwhile to try to get it up 600 00:37:36,039 --> 00:37:40,719 from the mud. So we have loads of things like 601 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,679 that around Scandinavia, mostly in Norway and Sweden. 602 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: Now do you think have people speculated that this was 603 00:37:49,039 --> 00:37:54,719 some type of secret military Yeah craft, but you would 604 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,880 never know until we actually, you know, find something. 605 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,679 Speaker 2: No, we never know and it's Eden. We always think 606 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:06,800 it's Russia and sometimes it is Russia. But I don't 607 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,840 think this was Russia. I don't think the ghost rockets 608 00:38:10,199 --> 00:38:14,800 were from Russia because they have really tried to find it. 609 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,320 The military at the time, they really tried to find 610 00:38:19,159 --> 00:38:22,840 ghost rockets at the point of crash and they never 611 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,360 never found anything except indentations in the seafloor at past 612 00:38:27,519 --> 00:38:30,800 and see lilies, water lilies and the stones thrown up 613 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,880 on the shore and yeah, stuff like that. 614 00:38:34,559 --> 00:38:38,639 Speaker 1: Mmmm hm. Now just changing gears a little bit here 615 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:44,840 is there? Can you think of one Swedish UFO incident 616 00:38:45,039 --> 00:38:48,840 or case that you know more people in the world 617 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:53,159 should be interested in examining it and finding out more 618 00:38:53,159 --> 00:38:54,599 information about it. 619 00:38:56,039 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one of the well known cases for 620 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:05,000 the world. It's a very very big military operation in 621 00:39:05,039 --> 00:39:09,559 the early nineteen seventies was called Operation Argues and it 622 00:39:09,679 --> 00:39:15,599 followed up were Operation da Kople. There were people from 623 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,800 the customs, the border patrol, there were people from the 624 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:25,840 police and there were also military people and it was 625 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:31,119 because of craft were flying from Norway into Sweden. Sometimes 626 00:39:31,199 --> 00:39:36,760 it was aircraft with no insignia on it landing on 627 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:44,000 very very difficult and very small, small parts of roads 628 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:49,360 in the forest. But they also saw more ufol like stuff. 629 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,480 And I talked to one military helicopter pilot who in 630 00:39:55,119 --> 00:40:00,280 nineteen seventy five, it was seventh of November, if I 631 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,880 remember it right, he was on alert. He was an 632 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:10,280 alert because they should be able to intercept within minutes 633 00:40:10,519 --> 00:40:15,039 when the radar saw anything flying from Norway, and at 634 00:40:15,079 --> 00:40:19,159 that time late in the night, he got the alert 635 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,840 and he and his co pilot they lifted the flo 636 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:28,039 away to a point where this object was heading and 637 00:40:28,079 --> 00:40:32,760 they were flying just I mean, it was fifteen yards 638 00:40:33,039 --> 00:40:38,119 over the forest with the helicopter, and suddenly this object 639 00:40:38,199 --> 00:40:43,880 came flying underneath the helicopter, over the tree tops. It 640 00:40:44,039 --> 00:40:46,519 was snow on the ground. It was nearly full moon, 641 00:40:46,679 --> 00:40:50,440 so they could really see it. It was elongated stuff 642 00:40:50,519 --> 00:40:56,800 like a cigar, no exhaust, no cabin, no fins, nothing, 643 00:40:57,199 --> 00:41:00,559 and the flew away from them. And just now, a 644 00:41:00,639 --> 00:41:04,119 couple of months ago, I got told of the original documents, 645 00:41:04,199 --> 00:41:08,159 which had been a top secret for many, many years 646 00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:11,679 and were to be top secret for another twenty years. 647 00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:15,119 But I got the clearance to read them and to 648 00:41:15,159 --> 00:41:20,400 copy them, and there I found the radar picture of 649 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,679 the incident, and there you can see the helicopter and 650 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:29,519 this object intercepting. Wow, very very close to each other. 651 00:41:29,559 --> 00:41:32,639 And it's also assessed in the report that the helicopter 652 00:41:32,679 --> 00:41:38,480 and the unknown were nearly hitting each other. So that 653 00:41:38,639 --> 00:41:39,480 was very interesting. 654 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:44,880 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's a great one. And they did did 655 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,039 they report any effects at all to you know, a 656 00:41:48,079 --> 00:41:51,719 large times will report something like could be electromagnetic type 657 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,960 of situation with their equipment and things like that, any 658 00:41:55,039 --> 00:41:57,000 type of reporting of anything like that. 659 00:41:57,559 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 2: No. Nothing. The pilot said to me, I pulled my 660 00:42:03,519 --> 00:42:08,000 feet up because it's also close. I don't think it 661 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,039 should have helped him in any way, but he did that. 662 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,199 It was so so close, he said. They landed and 663 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:20,719 the security personnel from the military came and debriefed them, 664 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:27,519 which was an ordinary procedure this operation. And they asked afterwards, 665 00:42:27,559 --> 00:42:29,639 what did we see and they got the answer it 666 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:34,000 was a UFO, so they didn't really know what it was. 667 00:42:34,119 --> 00:42:36,639 You can see it on radar. We have the witness 668 00:42:36,679 --> 00:42:39,639 report and we have the documentation. So it happened. 669 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,639 Speaker 1: Now. You mentioned Russia a few times today, and you 670 00:42:44,679 --> 00:42:47,559 know that's I do believe it's the largest land mass 671 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,679 for the former Soviet Union anyway. But so are you 672 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,320 in touch with any Russian uthologists? 673 00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 2: Yeah? And Ukraine. In Ukraine as well, it's harder now 674 00:43:02,119 --> 00:43:04,280 to get in touch with the Russia and you follow 675 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,239 just because they they have great problems to do their work. 676 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:14,480 One of them left Russia for many, many months because 677 00:43:14,519 --> 00:43:18,360 he didn't want to be enlisted and sent to Ukraine. 678 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,280 He went back and I think he managed to stay 679 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,599 away from being sent to the front. I really hope. So. 680 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,559 I haven't heard from him for a while now. But 681 00:43:29,639 --> 00:43:33,320 the EU followed in Russia is not as as good 682 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,159 as it has been in the early nineteen nineties. When 683 00:43:37,159 --> 00:43:41,719 we traveled to Moscow, I met so many youthologies that 684 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,840 we're giving that we're publishing, magazines, that we do research. 685 00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:49,440 They had libraries, they did a lot of things. It's 686 00:43:49,559 --> 00:43:52,760 very much harder now to do that for them. 687 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,480 Speaker 1: Well, when I've been there several times and I did 688 00:43:57,519 --> 00:44:00,320 my show from there each time i'm there, which is 689 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,480 getting up in the middle of the night to do 690 00:44:02,559 --> 00:44:06,360 it live. But I had a hard time reaching out to, 691 00:44:07,679 --> 00:44:10,599 you know, a Russian ufologist that you know, I didn't 692 00:44:10,599 --> 00:44:14,039 get a lot of response when I tried to reach 693 00:44:14,079 --> 00:44:18,360 I finally found someone, a really good researcher in the 694 00:44:18,519 --> 00:44:21,280 URL Mountain areas, and I wanted to talk you know, 695 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:26,840 a little bit about Diatlov Pass, you know, not that 696 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,079 I think that was UFO related, but it was still 697 00:44:29,079 --> 00:44:33,800 a fascinating incident that happened there. But anyway, you know, 698 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,480 the only ones that I got ahold of that were 699 00:44:35,599 --> 00:44:39,639 able to talk to were you know, had a problem 700 00:44:39,679 --> 00:44:42,800 with English, like they couldn't you know, talk English. Well, 701 00:44:43,519 --> 00:44:45,679 so that's a little bit of a setback. But I 702 00:44:45,679 --> 00:44:49,440 would wear my podcast UFO shirt and I get you know, 703 00:44:49,559 --> 00:44:52,519 comments from someone, you know, a few people that were 704 00:44:52,559 --> 00:44:53,480 in I. 705 00:44:53,599 --> 00:44:57,639 Speaker 2: Traveled with a fellow friend from uf Sweden who while 706 00:44:57,679 --> 00:45:01,280 speaking influently in Russia, and he had worked in Russia 707 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,360 for many years. So it's not easier for us we 708 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,679 could speak to anyone. Yeah. 709 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I want to tell you this is I've 710 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,679 told this on this story, this story on this show before, 711 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,880 but I think you would find it interesting. So I'm 712 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:20,440 riding along at the time with my Russian girlfriend at 713 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,679 the time, with her and her father, and she's telling 714 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:28,039 him in Russian that she you know that I do 715 00:45:28,199 --> 00:45:31,719 this show on UFO is basically so he starts telling 716 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,960 this story and he's telling in Russian, and she's translating 717 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,719 it to me, but he's acting like it's no big deal. 718 00:45:39,559 --> 00:45:42,239 But he's saying that he was going through like a 719 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:46,920 mountain pass and all of a sudden his car stall 720 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,800 and everybody's car stall, and they all pull over to 721 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:51,639 the side of the road and they're getting out and 722 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:53,679 people lifting up their hood of the car and trying 723 00:45:53,679 --> 00:45:55,199 to figure it all out, and they're all looking at 724 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,599 each other, and all of a sudden, without any sound 725 00:45:57,639 --> 00:46:01,519 at all, this cigar shape thing comes through the pass 726 00:46:01,559 --> 00:46:07,480 above them. There's portholes all over this thing, and it's 727 00:46:07,559 --> 00:46:10,159 just passing through without a sound, and everybody's staring up 728 00:46:10,559 --> 00:46:14,920 like looking at it. And the thing passes through, and 729 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,599 then someone's car starts, and everybody jumps in their car, 730 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:19,920 and they all started up the car and they drove off. 731 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,519 Nobody talked to each other, And I mean, I just 732 00:46:22,559 --> 00:46:25,360 think that's this is by someone's not into the UFO 733 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:30,880 topic and just telling this story nonchalantly. Pretty amazing. So 734 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,639 it happens everywhere. And you know, when I brought up Russia, 735 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:35,599 I brought it up because it is a land mass, 736 00:46:35,679 --> 00:46:38,280 so is China, and you know, you just don't hear 737 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,159 a lot of you know, there's a couple of you know, 738 00:46:42,079 --> 00:46:44,920 really interesting ones you do hear about, but you don't 739 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:46,960 hear about it a lot. And I wonder if you 740 00:46:47,039 --> 00:46:50,159 hear a lot more about those type of situations in 741 00:46:50,199 --> 00:46:55,000 your position, like incidents in China and incidences and places 742 00:46:55,039 --> 00:46:56,239 like Russia, et cetera. 743 00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:02,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been much more, much more seldom now than 744 00:47:02,159 --> 00:47:07,400 before because of the situation. Mm hmm. It's they think, 745 00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,079 and they're probably are right that they are eaves dropped 746 00:47:11,199 --> 00:47:15,840 and they are telephone or listening to so they don't 747 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,079 say that much when you when you call them, and 748 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,960 they don't trust the authorities to speak freely anymore. 749 00:47:28,119 --> 00:47:33,639 Speaker 1: So, getting back to the scientific findings, was did they 750 00:47:33,679 --> 00:47:37,920 really come out with anything you know that was changing 751 00:47:38,599 --> 00:47:44,519 opinions on what they were discovering? By what exactly did 752 00:47:44,559 --> 00:47:46,159 they come up with it? I know you mentioned it 753 00:47:46,159 --> 00:47:51,719 could have been like swamp gas basically, right, do. 754 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,519 Speaker 2: I mean the operation I told you about or what 755 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,599 do you think about? Yeah? 756 00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:04,239 Speaker 1: The the I know was the I can Yeah. 757 00:48:03,639 --> 00:48:07,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's a very very solid science. When 758 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,440 it comes to the very small bubbles and the very 759 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:16,920 small lights that can emanate from the water and going 760 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,119 up in the air, that for sure, it can be 761 00:48:20,199 --> 00:48:24,360 done now. But they have not been able to produce 762 00:48:24,599 --> 00:48:29,079 these big ones to three meter ones three odd ones, 763 00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:32,400 which I told you about earlier. Nobody knows how to 764 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,199 do that. And the same goes with the ball lighting. 765 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:39,599 You know, you can create very very small pieces of 766 00:48:39,639 --> 00:48:46,320 ball lighting that is sustained for milliseconds, but the real world, 767 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,840 when you look at the real world observations, they are 768 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:53,679 there for minutes. And I saved the ball lighting archive 769 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,519 that was nearly going to the dump many many years ago, 770 00:48:57,599 --> 00:49:00,159 and I read this one hundred and seventy five or 771 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,800 whatever it is, and they are so fascinating, you know, 772 00:49:04,199 --> 00:49:07,840 so fascinating. They are really behaving like they were intelligent. 773 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,679 But I don't think they are really, but they behave 774 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:17,199 like that. So I love ball lighting. It's a fascinating phenomenon. 775 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,440 Speaker 1: Right right, And what about earth lights? Do you know 776 00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:21,360 what I mean by those? 777 00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:22,760 Speaker 2: Yeah? 778 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. If you have a lot of 779 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:29,320 tetonic you know, situations there where those would be created. 780 00:49:30,039 --> 00:49:33,159 But is there any reports of what people think are 781 00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:33,840 the earth. 782 00:49:33,679 --> 00:49:37,719 Speaker 2: Lights not here in Sweden and you know, has it 783 00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,519 all any Norway? When yes, where you can see so 784 00:49:40,599 --> 00:49:41,840 many strange lights? 785 00:49:42,119 --> 00:49:42,360 Speaker 1: Right. 786 00:49:43,039 --> 00:49:47,119 Speaker 2: I talked to you Oni Gita Hauger with the scientists 787 00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,519 really covers has dollar now and he tells me that 788 00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:56,400 you never see any lights coming down, always see lights 789 00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,360 coming up from the ground. 790 00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,360 Speaker 1: That's very interesting. I never realized that part of it. 791 00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,639 I know, my good friend Chris Leito went there. I 792 00:50:06,679 --> 00:50:08,079 think he's gone there a couple of times. 793 00:50:08,559 --> 00:50:11,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, it Hastall and a couple of years ago. 794 00:50:11,639 --> 00:50:12,960 Speaker 1: Oh you did. He's a great guy. 795 00:50:13,199 --> 00:50:15,320 Speaker 2: He's a great guy, real a great guy. 796 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,159 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So yeah, that's that's interesting. And they have 797 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,719 these things called sprits. Have you ever heard of those? 798 00:50:22,599 --> 00:50:27,039 That's like lightning coming up. Yeah, that's another phenomenon. So 799 00:50:27,079 --> 00:50:30,199 a lot of these things, you know, maybe just phenomenon 800 00:50:30,199 --> 00:50:32,960 that we don't quite understand and can't really replicate. 801 00:50:34,039 --> 00:50:37,519 Speaker 2: I mean, I've written several books about unusual natural phenomena, 802 00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:42,000 and there are so many not fully understood phenomena out there. 803 00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:47,480 So I'm wide open for there could be things in 804 00:50:47,599 --> 00:50:51,400 nature that we don't understand that could explain the part 805 00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,079 of the UFO phenomena. M. 806 00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:01,119 Speaker 1: Now, was there something about Swedish police files? Is that something? 807 00:51:02,039 --> 00:51:02,159 Speaker 2: Oh? 808 00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so can you talk a little bit about that. 809 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,039 We have about four minutes left, that's all. 810 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:13,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. I was able to find and also been able 811 00:51:13,679 --> 00:51:17,360 to get copies of top secret formally top secret Swedish 812 00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:22,239 police fight for the security police and from the nineteen 813 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,000 forties and fifties of the nineteen sixties, it's still classified 814 00:51:27,159 --> 00:51:29,840 and you can see there that they were very very 815 00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:34,360 much interested in the UFO stuff. They sent people to 816 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:38,760 investigate even lights in the sky. They put quite a 817 00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:44,519 lot of money and time into investigating UFO sightings, which 818 00:51:44,559 --> 00:51:47,800 is interesting. I'm not sure if they do that today. 819 00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,440 I think they have other things to do in Sweden 820 00:51:51,039 --> 00:51:56,440 right now, but historically seen it's very very interesting to 821 00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:03,039 see that they had are several policemen sent to interesting 822 00:52:03,079 --> 00:52:08,000 observations and documenting them in mine detail. M hmm. 823 00:52:08,599 --> 00:52:12,679 Speaker 1: I think, you know, I've had people like Seth Shostak 824 00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,599 from SETI disagree with me, but I think when you 825 00:52:16,679 --> 00:52:22,280 have the observers like policemen or pilots or you know, 826 00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:27,039 someone that's they're trained observers and to me. I think 827 00:52:27,119 --> 00:52:31,199 those sightings are fascinating. And you know, it just goes 828 00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,559 to in my book that you know, a lot of 829 00:52:34,599 --> 00:52:36,199 things are just plain unexplainable. 830 00:52:37,159 --> 00:52:40,119 Speaker 2: Yeah. I spent some time with the sad Shotstach a 831 00:52:40,159 --> 00:52:43,159 couple of years ago. He's a nice guy. Yes, he 832 00:52:43,199 --> 00:52:45,840 doesn't really know that much about UFOs, of course, but 833 00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:50,280 that's right. And he tried to find a signal from 834 00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,880 space for fifty years. The only thing he found was 835 00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:58,360 on microwave oven and some satellite that behave badly. So 836 00:52:58,760 --> 00:52:59,519 it's quite sad. 837 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:04,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, you know, it's better than doing nothing, 838 00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,719 I suppose, But I think it's kind of ironic that 839 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,599 the funding comes in for something like that but not 840 00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:14,400 for you know, what's going on that so many people 841 00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:19,519 are you know, so many people are seeing in our skies, 842 00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:22,920 you know. And I had a debate with him, you know, 843 00:53:23,639 --> 00:53:26,519 years ago when he was very good. He was very 844 00:53:26,679 --> 00:53:30,159 ready for debating the topic. But again, you know, he 845 00:53:30,199 --> 00:53:33,079 doesn't know a lot. He just I asked him, this 846 00:53:33,119 --> 00:53:36,119 is the thing. I said, well, what would change your 847 00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:40,440 mind that these UFOs are really coming here and they're 848 00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,400 coming here from somewhere else? And he said a wing 849 00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,960 in the Smithsonian. That was his answer. Full of material, 850 00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,639 full of crash saucers. But anyway, that's a whole other thing. 851 00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,199 Just yeah, we have just one minute. Has there ever 852 00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:58,480 been any report of any crashed and retrieved UFOs in Sweden? 853 00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,079 Speaker 2: Lots of them of course of the Ghost rocket Oh yes, 854 00:54:03,199 --> 00:54:07,599 they crashed all of them. Nearly the retrievals. The only 855 00:54:07,639 --> 00:54:11,679 retrievals had been also during the Ghost rocket wave in 856 00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,679 nineteen forty six. They found stuff, but titos ordinary stuff. 857 00:54:15,679 --> 00:54:20,719 It post nothing, nothing like crafts. 858 00:54:21,199 --> 00:54:26,400 Speaker 3: So no als is no, yeah, I know, yeah, okay, great, 859 00:54:26,639 --> 00:54:29,559 So if you would throw out where people can find you, 860 00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:31,760 the website and all that, and I'll have that in 861 00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:32,559 the show notes. 862 00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:38,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's CC's UFO dot C or AFU dot. 863 00:54:38,639 --> 00:54:43,000 Speaker 1: Very easy. Yeah, excellent, Klass, you don't disappoint. It's so 864 00:54:43,079 --> 00:54:46,280 great to have you back again, and let's stay in 865 00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,039 touch and until we meet again. 866 00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,000 Speaker 2: Absolutely Martin, all right, thank you, thank you. 867 00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:56,719 Speaker 1: All right, everyone, so don't forget this Thursday, Thanksgiving will 868 00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:58,320 be back. Let me put this up. 869 00:54:58,519 --> 00:54:59,119 Speaker 2: How do you like that? 870 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,920 Speaker 1: We'll be back with Professor Kevin Knuth and Matthew Shadegus 871 00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:08,239 and should be a great show, so thank you all 872 00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,440 for being here tonight and remember to keep your eyes 873 00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:36,159 to the sky.