WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Le Christmas Time and cookie sweatitors and Karen Kutz and

2
00:00:10.279 --> 00:00:13.199
<v Speaker 1>Ugly Betties Christmas Time.

3
00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:13.919
<v Speaker 2>What's up? Man?

4
00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:19.120
<v Speaker 3>Hey? Hey, hey, am I am? I coming in clear?

5
00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:24.039
<v Speaker 4>Yes, sir, Yeah, I wasn't originally gonna do this, but

6
00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:25.559
<v Speaker 4>a friend of mine recommended you to me.

7
00:00:26.679 --> 00:00:29.239
<v Speaker 3>Uh he's an Orthodox himself.

8
00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:35.039
<v Speaker 4>I myself am well, I just I guess I want

9
00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:37.320
<v Speaker 4>to just point out that I do believe in Christ.

10
00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:39.399
<v Speaker 3>You know, I'm not an atheist. I'm not trying to

11
00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:40.520
<v Speaker 3>troll you.

12
00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:42.479
<v Speaker 4>Sound kind of you sound kind of tired from all

13
00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:47.119
<v Speaker 4>the atheism in the general moronic nature of them all.

14
00:00:47.240 --> 00:00:50.479
<v Speaker 2>But uh, I mean I'm pretty good. I'm running on

15
00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:53.479
<v Speaker 2>about seventy percent gasoline right now. I'm pretty good.

16
00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:55.679
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, I know the feeling.

17
00:00:55.719 --> 00:01:00.280
<v Speaker 4>Brother, I I guess what I'm trying I want to

18
00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:02.759
<v Speaker 4>say is and forgive me if I go on a

19
00:01:02.759 --> 00:01:05.599
<v Speaker 4>few tangents. Uh stop me at any time if.

20
00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:09.799
<v Speaker 3>You, if you wish. But uh uh I was raised.

21
00:01:09.959 --> 00:01:10.239
<v Speaker 5>Uh.

22
00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:14.239
<v Speaker 4>I guess you could say Protestant, but you know, I.

23
00:01:13.879 --> 00:01:15.719
<v Speaker 6>Never really knew what that was back then.

24
00:01:16.719 --> 00:01:17.319
<v Speaker 3>Uh.

25
00:01:17.480 --> 00:01:21.519
<v Speaker 4>I just went to church, I you know, prayed to God,

26
00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:24.680
<v Speaker 4>read the Bible, all that, all that stuff. You know, uh,

27
00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:30.040
<v Speaker 4>pretty pretty innocent stuff. My mother was raised Catholic, but

28
00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:35.560
<v Speaker 4>she uh abandoned that. Uh, she sort of became Protestant.

29
00:01:35.560 --> 00:01:39.359
<v Speaker 4>But after a lot of church hopping, because admittedly none

30
00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:42.159
<v Speaker 4>of the churches in our area were very uh well,

31
00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:46.719
<v Speaker 4>they never seemed genuine, so we just just straight up

32
00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:49.439
<v Speaker 4>to stop going to church altogether and just, uh, I

33
00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:51.760
<v Speaker 4>guess you could say we became sola scriptura.

34
00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:53.319
<v Speaker 3>I guess that's what it's called.

35
00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:56.959
<v Speaker 4>But I didn't know what that was until my friend

36
00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:01.200
<v Speaker 4>pointed it out. And uh, He's told me a lot

37
00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:05.400
<v Speaker 4>about Orthodoxy, and I admit it is interesting, it's fascinating.

38
00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:12.199
<v Speaker 4>It's certainly more better than Catholicism. But okay, I guess

39
00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:14.520
<v Speaker 4>some of my disagreements that I have with it, I

40
00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:18.199
<v Speaker 4>guess I will admit I don't know much about.

41
00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:20.080
<v Speaker 2>What's the question.

42
00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:26.280
<v Speaker 3>Regarding saints?

43
00:02:26.719 --> 00:02:32.000
<v Speaker 4>Is one thing, prayer to the saints, I guess, because

44
00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:33.800
<v Speaker 4>that's a thing that Orthos do, right.

45
00:02:34.599 --> 00:02:37.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if you read Revelation five through nine, you'll notice

46
00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:41.680
<v Speaker 2>that John is on earth participating in the heavenly liturgy,

47
00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:45.759
<v Speaker 2>and there's specific statements, particularly Revelation I think it's eight,

48
00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:49.080
<v Speaker 2>where you have the saints in heaven, the angels in

49
00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:52.719
<v Speaker 2>heaven offering the prayers of the Church of the Saints.

50
00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:56.599
<v Speaker 2>The saints that are martyred in heaven underneath the altar

51
00:02:56.639 --> 00:02:59.840
<v Speaker 2>are praying for the Church on earth. So the doctrine

52
00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:02.719
<v Speaker 2>of the community of Saints, which we see clearly in

53
00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:05.599
<v Speaker 2>Hebrews eleven in Revelation five through nine, is the basis

54
00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:07.919
<v Speaker 2>for why we would ask saints to pray for us.

55
00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:10.919
<v Speaker 2>Is technically what's going on. We're not praying to them

56
00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:11.439
<v Speaker 2>as gods.

57
00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:16.000
<v Speaker 6>Okay, all right, that's uh, Revelation.

58
00:03:15.800 --> 00:03:19.280
<v Speaker 2>Five, five through nine. So those chapters are where John

59
00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:22.800
<v Speaker 2>specifically sees a heavenly liturgical worship service going on.

60
00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:26.400
<v Speaker 4>Okay, yeah, because I didn't get that at first. I

61
00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:31.039
<v Speaker 4>assumed it was that it seemed like prayer to dead men,

62
00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:33.159
<v Speaker 4>and it's you know, it sounded like niicromancy.

63
00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:34.639
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I understand. I mean, I was a

64
00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:36.639
<v Speaker 2>protest and I used to have that that mindset as well,

65
00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:38.560
<v Speaker 2>so I get it. But I think if you look

66
00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:42.039
<v Speaker 2>at what's going on in Revelation five through nine, and

67
00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:44.000
<v Speaker 2>if you consider the fact that you know, in the

68
00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:47.000
<v Speaker 2>Orthodox view, we think that the heavenly liturgy is the

69
00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:51.639
<v Speaker 2>earthly liturgy that they're the same liturgy. That's the thought process,

70
00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:55.319
<v Speaker 2>the basis behind why why would we do that? Conspiracy theorist?

71
00:03:55.400 --> 00:04:02.800
<v Speaker 2>What's up man? Christmas?

72
00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:10.000
<v Speaker 1>Dime mus Alli here, cookie sweaters and nasty beer?

73
00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:19.480
<v Speaker 2>What's up? I'm mute? Conspiracy? Therest simply Harvey wonderful Christmas.

74
00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:22.319
<v Speaker 2>The thing about Christmas is the worst is all these

75
00:04:22.519 --> 00:04:25.079
<v Speaker 2>horrible Christmas songs that you hear everywhere in the stores,

76
00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:30.680
<v Speaker 2>like freaking Paul McCartney Christmas wings. Christmas songs are the worst,

77
00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:33.839
<v Speaker 2>and all the freaking department stores love those wings Paul

78
00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:37.639
<v Speaker 2>McCartney Christmas songs that are just awful. I'm mute, man,

79
00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:42.120
<v Speaker 2>Do you want to talk or not? He left has

80
00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:59.560
<v Speaker 2>Sony Armstrong. What's the worst of the department store Christmas songs? Today?

81
00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:01.439
<v Speaker 2>Is test my patience. Today is one of those days

82
00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:04.680
<v Speaker 2>where I just want to quit and go be an assassin.

83
00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:06.879
<v Speaker 2>I want to go to some assassin school and just

84
00:05:07.959 --> 00:05:12.120
<v Speaker 2>learn to, you know, be a trained killer. I don't

85
00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:14.000
<v Speaker 2>know that's a joke, by the way, but that's how

86
00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:21.720
<v Speaker 2>I feel. Jonathan, what's up man? See might know where

87
00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:24.000
<v Speaker 2>assassin school is. What's the tuition for you to get

88
00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:25.319
<v Speaker 2>an Assassin school. What's up?

89
00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:25.519
<v Speaker 7>Man?

90
00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:30.680
<v Speaker 8>Hey, I come from kind of a evangelical background.

91
00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:32.720
<v Speaker 2>I come from the water mm hmm.

92
00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:40.160
<v Speaker 8>And so all around me all my friend's family constant

93
00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:43.639
<v Speaker 8>like signs and miracles that they kind of view as

94
00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:45.959
<v Speaker 8>stamps of approval that they're.

95
00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:47.279
<v Speaker 6>Walking the right faith.

96
00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:51.759
<v Speaker 8>Lately kind of just seeing like what's going on.

97
00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:52.600
<v Speaker 3>In Syria and stuff.

98
00:05:52.680 --> 00:05:55.480
<v Speaker 8>It's like I'll have friends talking about how God healed

99
00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:57.279
<v Speaker 8>their iPhone after they prayed over it.

100
00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:00.480
<v Speaker 2>Like, okay, wait, heal their yield their eyes phone?

101
00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:05.560
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, like their iPhone wasn't charging. Just trust in God

102
00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:06.399
<v Speaker 8>and it starts working.

103
00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:08.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

104
00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:10.519
<v Speaker 3>They seem really sincere about it.

105
00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:13.399
<v Speaker 8>But at the same time, it's like I see all

106
00:06:13.399 --> 00:06:16.720
<v Speaker 8>these ancient Christian communities getting wiped out, and it's like, okay,

107
00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:20.560
<v Speaker 8>so why is God doing all these wonders for us

108
00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:22.079
<v Speaker 8>and like the most pampered.

109
00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:23.839
<v Speaker 2>For Yeah, there's a bunch of evangelical idiots here. There's

110
00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:26.600
<v Speaker 2>not signs and wonders with iPhones miraculous are being healed.

111
00:06:27.879 --> 00:06:30.720
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, is there a way to like even to even

112
00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:32.920
<v Speaker 8>reason with that? Like, how do you how do you

113
00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:33.879
<v Speaker 8>even break someone out of it?

114
00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:35.879
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know, man, that's a great question. I don't.

115
00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:38.279
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if somebody thinks that the iPhone got healed

116
00:06:38.439 --> 00:06:44.040
<v Speaker 2>and it's a miracle, find new friends. That's all I

117
00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:46.560
<v Speaker 2>can think of, Anthony, what's up, man? I know it's tough,

118
00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:49.360
<v Speaker 2>but give them time. I don't know, try to be

119
00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:58.160
<v Speaker 2>nice to them. Although Paul did have the miraculous gift

120
00:06:58.199 --> 00:07:03.279
<v Speaker 2>of healing phost is there a patron saying of iPhone?

121
00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:04.879
<v Speaker 2>Anthony got to mute, man, what's up?

122
00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:10.439
<v Speaker 3>Ja? Can you hear me? So? Sorry?

123
00:07:12.199 --> 00:07:12.639
<v Speaker 6>Excellent?

124
00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:14.879
<v Speaker 9>I was curious, what do you think of the cosmic

125
00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:16.920
<v Speaker 9>temple view of Genesis. I'm not sure if I heard

126
00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:19.439
<v Speaker 9>you say anything about that recently. What are your thoughts?

127
00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:25.079
<v Speaker 9>What cosmic temple view of Genesis? You familiar with that?

128
00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:28.839
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm familiar with like James Jordan's research, that

129
00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:33.879
<v Speaker 2>Genesis speaks of the creation of the universe, like the

130
00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:35.519
<v Speaker 2>Biblical temple. Is that what we're talking about?

131
00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:42.319
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, the creation of the universe. Yeah, Yeah, that's what

132
00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:43.639
<v Speaker 9>I was talking about.

133
00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:46.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean that's in Three New Eyes, is a

134
00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:48.680
<v Speaker 2>great book by James Jordan that covers that. I think

135
00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:51.160
<v Speaker 2>that's a good perspective.

136
00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:55.839
<v Speaker 3>Okay, I'll check that out next A good question.

137
00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:58.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Three New Eyes is a classic, even though Jordan

138
00:08:00.279 --> 00:08:02.040
<v Speaker 2>wrote that when he was Protestant, when I guess he

139
00:08:02.199 --> 00:08:06.279
<v Speaker 2>technically still is Anglican or whatever whatever he's made up.

140
00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:09.120
<v Speaker 2>But R JB. What's up?

141
00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:09.319
<v Speaker 3>Man?

142
00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:13.959
<v Speaker 2>It's still a good book. It's essentially kind of patristic.

143
00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:17.160
<v Speaker 2>Hermeneuticts a lot of typology going on. The universe is

144
00:08:17.199 --> 00:08:20.319
<v Speaker 2>structured in a three tiered you know structure.

145
00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:26.480
<v Speaker 5>Go ahead, Hey, j how are you doing good?

146
00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:26.199
<v Speaker 3>Uh?

147
00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:28.959
<v Speaker 5>You know, this is not the first time that we've spoken.

148
00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:33.840
<v Speaker 5>If you remember a alternate current radio.

149
00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:38.799
<v Speaker 3>We we spoke there a long time ago.

150
00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:44.320
<v Speaker 2>Remind me. I'm sorry, I don't remember what Who are

151
00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:45.559
<v Speaker 2>you or do you don't want to know you?

152
00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:48.679
<v Speaker 3>Do you remember the name Hesher? We Yeah?

153
00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:49.159
<v Speaker 2>I know Hasher?

154
00:08:49.240 --> 00:08:49.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

155
00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:53.720
<v Speaker 3>Okay, yeah he was. I was one of the people

156
00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:55.759
<v Speaker 3>in the Knicks on his website.

157
00:08:58.039 --> 00:08:59.639
<v Speaker 2>You don't want to say which guy you were?

158
00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:06.799
<v Speaker 3>I mean, Oh Ryan, Ryan? G Yes, sir? Oh what's up?

159
00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:09.200
<v Speaker 3>Pretty good? How are you doing?

160
00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:10.440
<v Speaker 2>What's what's on your mine?

161
00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:15.679
<v Speaker 3>So? Yeah, I apologize. I could have just jumped into it.

162
00:09:15.879 --> 00:09:19.720
<v Speaker 10>Just just wanted you to know I'm not some strangers

163
00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:29.440
<v Speaker 10>you as well, So funny enough, when we last spoke. Uh,

164
00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:34.279
<v Speaker 10>you probably didn't even know my stance on any of this,

165
00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:38.279
<v Speaker 10>but I was probably closest to what you could call

166
00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:44.519
<v Speaker 10>it deist at that time. I grew up in Catholicism,

167
00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:49.840
<v Speaker 10>but fell away spent about twelve years away from the church.

168
00:09:51.399 --> 00:09:52.639
<v Speaker 3>I've since come back.

169
00:09:55.000 --> 00:10:01.000
<v Speaker 5>I at this point, I am convinced of the truth

170
00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:06.080
<v Speaker 5>of the Catholic faith. So I just thought I would

171
00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:10.919
<v Speaker 5>call in and try to I mean, I know this

172
00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:14.679
<v Speaker 5>is about debate, and I don't mind having a bit

173
00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:18.639
<v Speaker 5>of a debate, but my goal here is more having

174
00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:25.080
<v Speaker 5>mutual understanding and hopefully gleanings that hopefully we could glean

175
00:10:25.159 --> 00:10:26.159
<v Speaker 5>something from each other.

176
00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:30.519
<v Speaker 3>But you know, I'm just saying that's my goal.

177
00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:34.039
<v Speaker 5>Where I would start it at is do we agree

178
00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:38.720
<v Speaker 5>on the four marks of the Church as stated in

179
00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:39.759
<v Speaker 5>the Nicene Creed.

180
00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:44.600
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely well, I think we would agree at least basically

181
00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:47.360
<v Speaker 2>one Holy Catholic I wastall. But what I would actually

182
00:10:47.399 --> 00:10:50.240
<v Speaker 2>argue that's an argument against the Roman Catholic position, because

183
00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:53.919
<v Speaker 2>there's nothing in the Creed or in you know, sort

184
00:10:53.919 --> 00:10:58.759
<v Speaker 2>of the Batristic era theological summaries, whether it's John Damascus

185
00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:02.279
<v Speaker 2>is on the Orthodox Faith or whether it's a catechetical

186
00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:05.200
<v Speaker 2>lectures of Saint Cirril Jerusalem, like, none of those texts

187
00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:09.840
<v Speaker 2>really make Rome the focal point of the One Holy

188
00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:14.639
<v Speaker 2>Catholic Apostolic Church. And in fact, the council which is

189
00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:16.840
<v Speaker 2>constant the number one and three eighty one when they

190
00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:20.159
<v Speaker 2>composed that additional section to the Creed, you know, the

191
00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:24.399
<v Speaker 2>section about the church. That section is composed by a

192
00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:28.120
<v Speaker 2>council had out of communion with Rome, presided over by

193
00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:30.360
<v Speaker 2>Saint Melidio's who died out of communion with Rome. And

194
00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:34.399
<v Speaker 2>so if Constantinople one accurately lists the phrase one Holy

195
00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:37.440
<v Speaker 2>Calic Apostolic Church and they were not in commune with

196
00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Rome when they wrote that, they did not mean the papacy.

197
00:11:40.159 --> 00:11:42.559
<v Speaker 2>And so I would argue that that's actually in favor

198
00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:43.200
<v Speaker 2>of my position.

199
00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:49.519
<v Speaker 5>Okay, when you say Rome, you're not I mean, just

200
00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:52.759
<v Speaker 5>to clarify, you're not speaking geographically.

201
00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:57.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm speaking of the See of Rome, right, So I

202
00:11:57.639 --> 00:12:01.799
<v Speaker 2>mean the See of Rome is geographic, sure.

203
00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:04.519
<v Speaker 5>Well, I mean it. I guess you could say the

204
00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:06.000
<v Speaker 5>Charter is the world.

205
00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:10.799
<v Speaker 2>Though the Charter I don't know what you meant.

206
00:12:10.759 --> 00:12:18.120
<v Speaker 3>The scope of influence of the Roman Well, influences.

207
00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:21.480
<v Speaker 2>Influence is one thing. But like, if you read the

208
00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:25.039
<v Speaker 2>Chiad Document of Rome from a few years ago, it

209
00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:29.519
<v Speaker 2>admits that the Bishop of Rome did not have jurisdiction

210
00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:34.480
<v Speaker 2>over the churches of East in the first millennium.

211
00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:38.720
<v Speaker 3>Okay, no, I actually that makes sense to me. I

212
00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:40.279
<v Speaker 3>mean in terms of.

213
00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:46.320
<v Speaker 5>The as far as I understand it, there were multiple seas.

214
00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:49.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but Vatican one claims that from the earliest days

215
00:12:49.759 --> 00:12:52.519
<v Speaker 2>of the Church, the Roman Sea had universal jurisdiction over

216
00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:57.399
<v Speaker 2>the entire Christian imperium, the Christian body. And I'm saying that,

217
00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:00.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm saying that the Chiad document that Rome has up

218
00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:04.960
<v Speaker 2>on the Vatican website admits that this is not true,

219
00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:11.120
<v Speaker 2>that the Roman when was that published twenty sixteen?

220
00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:15.720
<v Speaker 5>Okay, Well, I'd probably have issues with that.

221
00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:16.000
<v Speaker 3>But.

222
00:13:17.399 --> 00:13:26.000
<v Speaker 2>So do you know better than Francis I.

223
00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:28.240
<v Speaker 5>I mean, I can't. I can't say in what in

224
00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:30.320
<v Speaker 5>what particulars.

225
00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:32.759
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean Benedict the sixteenth, Okay, Benedict the sixteenth,

226
00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:35.480
<v Speaker 2>in his book Introduction to Christianity, says basically the same

227
00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:39.240
<v Speaker 2>thing that in the first millennium the Roman seed did

228
00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:41.519
<v Speaker 2>not exercise universal jurisdiction over the East.

229
00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.879
<v Speaker 3>Okay, well, so is Vatican.

230
00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:47.679
<v Speaker 2>One right or are they right?

231
00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:51.279
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I.

232
00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:54.720
<v Speaker 5>Think I'd be really interested to go over the exact

233
00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:58.159
<v Speaker 5>lines where you're saying that those two are in contradiction.

234
00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:00.919
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, Vatican one says very clearly it's not

235
00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:05.440
<v Speaker 2>even contested that the Bishop of Rome has universal jurisdiction

236
00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:09.159
<v Speaker 2>and headship unilaterally over all the church without any need

237
00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:11.200
<v Speaker 2>for a synod or any other bishop to approve what

238
00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:13.679
<v Speaker 2>he says and does. That's the whole basis for ex cathedral.

239
00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:15.679
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's Vatican One.

240
00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:20.360
<v Speaker 5>Well, as I'm understanding that this all emanates.

241
00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:23.960
<v Speaker 3>From the primacy of Peter the patrion office.

242
00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean what you mean by the first among

243
00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:30.799
<v Speaker 2>equals or something like that, then Orthodox person could agree

244
00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:34.759
<v Speaker 2>to that to the word quote premascy, because because in

245
00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:38.639
<v Speaker 2>the councils, Rome is listed first. Rome usually signed the

246
00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:41.759
<v Speaker 2>council first, but the Bishop of Rome didn't call any

247
00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:46.960
<v Speaker 2>ecumenical councils. There were popes who were excommunicated by ecumenical councils,

248
00:14:47.799 --> 00:14:50.639
<v Speaker 2>there were popes who submitted to ecumenical councils, like Virgilius.

249
00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:53.440
<v Speaker 2>So I'm just pointing out that Vatican one is an

250
00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:57.840
<v Speaker 2>innovation over the senidality collegiality practice of the Church in

251
00:14:57.879 --> 00:15:00.960
<v Speaker 2>the first millennium.

252
00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:04.759
<v Speaker 3>Okay, but I mean, I guess I could.

253
00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:07.720
<v Speaker 5>I'm not going to say that you're wrong there, but

254
00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:10.720
<v Speaker 5>I without having it directly in front of me, I'm

255
00:15:10.759 --> 00:15:12.519
<v Speaker 5>not sure exactly where you're saying those tes.

256
00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:15.279
<v Speaker 2>That's fine. So so if you go to Papalincyclicals dot net,

257
00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:17.320
<v Speaker 2>you can type in Vatican one and you'll get the

258
00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:20.639
<v Speaker 2>full documentation of all of that. If you print it out,

259
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:23.519
<v Speaker 2>it's about fifteen pages. That's all of Vatican One. And

260
00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:24.679
<v Speaker 2>then I would say, if you look at the G

261
00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:29.840
<v Speaker 2>eighty document Chi e t I from twenty sixteen, that

262
00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:34.039
<v Speaker 2>document is about the admissions of the Roman Sea to

263
00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:37.840
<v Speaker 2>the Eastern churches. So that's why that's very relevant to

264
00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:41.720
<v Speaker 2>this discussion. And the paragraph nineteen is the last of

265
00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:44.559
<v Speaker 2>THECH eighty document, and that's where it says that the

266
00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:48.000
<v Speaker 2>Bishop of Rome did not exercise canonical authority over the

267
00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:50.879
<v Speaker 2>churches of the East. So that's an admission that the

268
00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:54.320
<v Speaker 2>East and the Orthodox have been complaining about for so long,

269
00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:57.679
<v Speaker 2>for a thousand years, And I'm arguing that this admission

270
00:15:57.799 --> 00:16:00.679
<v Speaker 2>contradicts the claims of Vatican One, so you can, I

271
00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:03.519
<v Speaker 2>mean you can feel free to go fact check me,

272
00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:04.679
<v Speaker 2>please do no.

273
00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:08.080
<v Speaker 5>I think that there's I think we may have a

274
00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:12.320
<v Speaker 5>common understanding here in terms of the concept of suy

275
00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:20.399
<v Speaker 5>Urus self governing, that there there was a self governing

276
00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:23.519
<v Speaker 5>or I shouldn't say, what was that. In some sense

277
00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:28.240
<v Speaker 5>there's a self governing aspect of Eastern Catholic.

278
00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Church now, but that's not about This is not about

279
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:34.159
<v Speaker 2>whether there were autocephalist churches, which Ephesus Council of Ephesis

280
00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:39.320
<v Speaker 2>grants autocephally to the Church of Cyprus. So there are

281
00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:43.519
<v Speaker 2>autocephalist churches, which everyone admits, but that's a different issue

282
00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:46.600
<v Speaker 2>from whether or not that it Caan One dogmatically teaches

283
00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:49.519
<v Speaker 2>that the pope has unilateral universal jurisdiction. I mean, it's

284
00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:52.080
<v Speaker 2>not even in question. It's what Vatican everybody knows. Vatican

285
00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:54.000
<v Speaker 2>One teaches that. That knows what Vatican One says.

286
00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:58.879
<v Speaker 5>So yeah, so I I grasp what you've said, and

287
00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:04.079
<v Speaker 5>I'll definitely do more research on on what you've referenced there.

288
00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:08.960
<v Speaker 5>What I wanted to more nail down in terms of

289
00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:11.279
<v Speaker 5>what I was saying is the foremarks of the church

290
00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:12.920
<v Speaker 5>stated in the Nicing Creed.

291
00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:19.039
<v Speaker 3>So for me, when I reverted, I had.

292
00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:24.680
<v Speaker 5>A fork in the road, which was Catholicism or Orthodoxy,

293
00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:32.319
<v Speaker 5>And where where I had it was concerning the Nicene Creed,

294
00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:35.079
<v Speaker 5>that I fell on the side of Catholicism.

295
00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:38.279
<v Speaker 2>But did you hear that I said about constantin Noble One,

296
00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:40.599
<v Speaker 2>that when they wrote One Holy Catholic Apostolic, they were

297
00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:44.079
<v Speaker 2>out of communion with Rome. Were you aware of that?

298
00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:47.119
<v Speaker 3>No?

299
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:50.319
<v Speaker 2>But so if you look up the schism, the Malaysian

300
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Schism and the Schism of constantinople One, Rome did not

301
00:17:55.079 --> 00:18:01.240
<v Speaker 2>accept constant constantinople One until centuries later. So retroactive says, Okay,

302
00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:04.720
<v Speaker 2>we do accept the addition to the Creed and constantin

303
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:09.400
<v Speaker 2>Noble One's teachings, but that's centuries later. So when they

304
00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:12.200
<v Speaker 2>wrote that, and the Cappadocians were the you know, primary

305
00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:15.680
<v Speaker 2>theologians at constantin Noble One, they clearly did not have

306
00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:19.440
<v Speaker 2>the Vatican One mindset in mind when they wrote One

307
00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:20.400
<v Speaker 2>Holy Catholic Obstallic.

308
00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:26.880
<v Speaker 7>Okay, But so yeah, what I'm more getting at it

309
00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:30.359
<v Speaker 7>so that I mean that that may be all just

310
00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:34.880
<v Speaker 7>fine and true, and I I'm not necessarily trying to dispute.

311
00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:37.319
<v Speaker 5>That At the moment, what I'm trying to get at

312
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:40.960
<v Speaker 5>is one Holy Catholic and Apostolic.

313
00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:43.559
<v Speaker 2>So so, and that's fine, we can move on. But

314
00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:47.319
<v Speaker 2>you're saying that the mindset of the people that wrote

315
00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:50.960
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't really matter. It's what Rome says it means?

316
00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Is that is that where we're going.

317
00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:54.960
<v Speaker 3>Not so much.

318
00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:58.720
<v Speaker 5>I'm just trying to nail down what my reasoning is

319
00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:02.200
<v Speaker 5>oka why you might I think my reasoning is false.

320
00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:04.359
<v Speaker 2>So I mean, so you're going to say what that like,

321
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:08.160
<v Speaker 2>the Catholicity involves numbers. Rome has a lot of numbers,

322
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:09.839
<v Speaker 2>and Orthodox don't. Is that where you're going?

323
00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:17.359
<v Speaker 3>Well sort of, I mean you're you're not far off.

324
00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:22.000
<v Speaker 2>So what was Catholicity true in the fourth century when

325
00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:24.640
<v Speaker 2>most of the church was Aryan or semiarian? Where were

326
00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:25.160
<v Speaker 2>the numbers?

327
00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:30.240
<v Speaker 3>Was Catholicity true?

328
00:19:31.480 --> 00:19:32.960
<v Speaker 2>If it's numbers, it was?

329
00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:35.319
<v Speaker 3>It was, Well, what do you mean by numbers?

330
00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:38.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, if the argument is going to be that the

331
00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:41.880
<v Speaker 2>Roman Catholic Church is the one Holy Catholic Capsolic Church

332
00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:44.799
<v Speaker 2>because it's the one that has the numbers, then that's

333
00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:48.440
<v Speaker 2>false because they didn't have nobody. Whether you're Orthodox or Catholic.

334
00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:51.640
<v Speaker 2>In the fourth century, the majority of the Church was

335
00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:54.480
<v Speaker 2>Aryan or semiarian, and at one point there was only

336
00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:58.319
<v Speaker 2>a handful of bishops that were Orthodox, st Athanasius being

337
00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:02.440
<v Speaker 2>one of them. So it cannot be a numbers game. Catholicity,

338
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:06.240
<v Speaker 2>in the Orthodox view, means fullness of truth, not primarily

339
00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:07.359
<v Speaker 2>essentially numbers.

340
00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:13.799
<v Speaker 5>That's so, that's not Yeah, I don't understand it in

341
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:14.799
<v Speaker 5>terms of numbers.

342
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.279
<v Speaker 3>How I understand, Like, if you wouldn't mind, I'll just

343
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:18.839
<v Speaker 3>break it down.

344
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:30.480
<v Speaker 5>Catholic means universal, means applying.

345
00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:33.640
<v Speaker 2>To the whole fullness agreed, we agree.

346
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:43.039
<v Speaker 3>So, and then holy would be uh from God.

347
00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:46.359
<v Speaker 2>Well and produces saints.

348
00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:55.240
<v Speaker 3>And yes, so, but but essentially sanctified. It would be

349
00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:56.079
<v Speaker 3>another way to put that.

350
00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:03.599
<v Speaker 5>Apostolic would be emanating from the apostles, which which we

351
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:07.519
<v Speaker 5>agree with that ultimately saying a mission from Christ given

352
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:08.079
<v Speaker 5>by Christ.

353
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:11.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, it means Apostolic succession, right, But.

354
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:14.680
<v Speaker 5>I'm saying the the apostles are the apostles because they

355
00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:16.000
<v Speaker 5>were given a mission by Christ.

356
00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:19.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's part of episode succession, is that the apostles

357
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:20.400
<v Speaker 2>are the successors to Christ.

358
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:28.279
<v Speaker 5>Right, and and then one meaning unified, and so my

359
00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:33.440
<v Speaker 5>issue comes in when well, I'd say I have two issues,

360
00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:38.720
<v Speaker 5>but the latter is maybe more easily resolvable. So I

361
00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:44.279
<v Speaker 5>think one and Catholic are an issue. And but but

362
00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:48.279
<v Speaker 5>Catholic maybe not. Like I said, maybe that's easily resolvable.

363
00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:52.039
<v Speaker 2>But I think that, Uh, let me give you an

364
00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:54.400
<v Speaker 2>example of where I would say that the Romaic Coley

365
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:57.559
<v Speaker 2>Church is not one. The Roumancallolic Church allows all of

366
00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:01.480
<v Speaker 2>the Eastern Catholics to recite a different and creed than

367
00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:04.599
<v Speaker 2>the Western Church. How can the true church have two

368
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:08.680
<v Speaker 2>different creeds? And in the first thousand years the church

369
00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:10.559
<v Speaker 2>didn't have two different creeds, they had one creed.

370
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:14.720
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I think that's a big issue. But but to say.

371
00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:17.079
<v Speaker 2>That, well, then so then what does one mean? Just

372
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:19.599
<v Speaker 2>the pope. It doesn't mean actual faith. They're not one

373
00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:20.000
<v Speaker 2>in faith.

374
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:22.720
<v Speaker 3>It's just one of the faith one baptism.

375
00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:24.599
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but how is it one faith if the church

376
00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:26.319
<v Speaker 2>has two creeds?

377
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:30.160
<v Speaker 3>I mean, that's an issue.

378
00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:33.359
<v Speaker 5>But but I think that when you say the Roman

379
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:38.279
<v Speaker 5>Catholic Church says, that's where I'm not connecting with what

380
00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:38.799
<v Speaker 5>you're saying.

381
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:43.960
<v Speaker 3>It's not I'm not trying to say that. What where

382
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:46.680
<v Speaker 3>you got that is wrong. But it seems that.

383
00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:50.240
<v Speaker 2>What what did I whether I say that? What what

384
00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:52.480
<v Speaker 2>did I say? Rome says that you're unclear about? And

385
00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:56.119
<v Speaker 2>I'll sort of cite you whatever documents you want.

386
00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:02.519
<v Speaker 3>Wait, I'm sorry, I could you're.

387
00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:04.319
<v Speaker 2>You're saying to me Jay when you say Rome says,

388
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.759
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if that's accurate or where you got that,

389
00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:09.720
<v Speaker 2>And I'm asking you, which thing are you unclear about?

390
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:11.960
<v Speaker 2>I'll give you the source. Oh sure, I mean, I've

391
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:13.400
<v Speaker 2>got We've got Denzinger right here.

392
00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:19.000
<v Speaker 5>Well, it's just I noticed that you and many people

393
00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:22.920
<v Speaker 5>say the Roman Catholic Church believes or says X, and

394
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:27.559
<v Speaker 5>I think that often you can have a source from

395
00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:33.039
<v Speaker 5>those who claim to be of the Roman Catholic hierarchy.

396
00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Like the Vatican. I mean, I'm going to Denzinger. Do

397
00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:36.279
<v Speaker 2>you know what Denzinger is?

398
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:37.839
<v Speaker 3>Well? Are you talking?

399
00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:45.920
<v Speaker 5>I think that papal infallible statements are of at the peak.

400
00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:48.119
<v Speaker 2>Of what I mean. I'm not do you know what

401
00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:49.680
<v Speaker 2>Denzinger is? Are you familiar with Denzinger?

402
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:54.119
<v Speaker 3>I'm familiar with the name, but I could probably.

403
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:58.680
<v Speaker 2>See this is the collection of dogmas that Rome has affirmed.

404
00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:02.559
<v Speaker 2>So this is one place to start for Roman Catholic dogma,

405
00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:05.200
<v Speaker 2>and hence it's called the sources of Catholic dogma. I'm

406
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:07.200
<v Speaker 2>not being arrogant, I'm not being mean to you. I'm

407
00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:10.000
<v Speaker 2>just literally saying, that's what Denzinger is. It's the sources

408
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:13.279
<v Speaker 2>of Catholic dogma. And so when I say something like

409
00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Vatican one says this, you can find it at paoplencyclicals

410
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:19.759
<v Speaker 2>dot net under Vatican one or in Denzinger. Because Denzinger

411
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:22.559
<v Speaker 2>pretty much has all the Vatican One. It's not the

412
00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:27.119
<v Speaker 2>only source of Romanclic dogma because Denzinger doesn't have everything

413
00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:30.400
<v Speaker 2>that's taught by the papacy. It just has a collection

414
00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:33.640
<v Speaker 2>of papally approved things. But if you go to the

415
00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:38.279
<v Speaker 2>Vatican website, they cite Denzinger, so it's definitely an authoritative source.

416
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:46.799
<v Speaker 5>Okay, but well, where do you source the claim.

417
00:24:46.519 --> 00:24:50.519
<v Speaker 3>That you made the which one?

418
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:54.680
<v Speaker 5>Which you know, I'm kind of blanking because I was

419
00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:56.960
<v Speaker 5>so focused on what you were just saying. But you

420
00:24:57.400 --> 00:25:04.880
<v Speaker 5>were suggesting hmm, well, I know, I know you mentioned

421
00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:09.160
<v Speaker 5>about the Eastern churches having a different creed.

422
00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:12.480
<v Speaker 2>That's not that's not even a controversial. I mean, you

423
00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:15.319
<v Speaker 2>can go ask any Uniate or Greek Catholic like they

424
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:20.279
<v Speaker 2>recite the Creed without the philioque. This is well known, right, yeah,

425
00:25:20.359 --> 00:25:23.240
<v Speaker 2>so you need a you need a papal statement whether

426
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:23.759
<v Speaker 2>that's true?

427
00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:28.359
<v Speaker 5>No, right, no, no, no, I what I'm saying, Well, no,

428
00:25:28.519 --> 00:25:31.440
<v Speaker 5>I guess I think I think I got lost.

429
00:25:31.160 --> 00:25:32.119
<v Speaker 3>In the mix there there.

430
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:35.880
<v Speaker 5>You had made a statement that the Roman Catholic Church says,

431
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:41.319
<v Speaker 5>and I'm I'm just questioning, is that an infallible teaching

432
00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:44.799
<v Speaker 5>or is that something that you read from the Vatican

433
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:45.920
<v Speaker 5>that may or may not be.

434
00:25:46.119 --> 00:25:49.839
<v Speaker 2>Well, Vatican one is infallible. It's a dogmatic ecumenical council.

435
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:52.599
<v Speaker 2>So in the Roman Catholic system, yes, Vatican one is infallible.

436
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.279
<v Speaker 2>And presumably, I mean maybe some Roman Catholic has some

437
00:25:56.440 --> 00:25:59.519
<v Speaker 2>argument they would make. I would say Denzinger also includes

438
00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:03.839
<v Speaker 2>everything that is quote infallible or ordinary universal magisterial teaching,

439
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:06.680
<v Speaker 2>which cornabatic in one is protected by the Petrine charism.

440
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:09.839
<v Speaker 2>So Denzinger also should be without.

441
00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:15.160
<v Speaker 5>Error, Okay, And that that may be the case. I

442
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:19.359
<v Speaker 5>can't speak to that. My issue comes down to when

443
00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:26.160
<v Speaker 5>I think about the question of Orthodox versus Catholicism, I

444
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:34.599
<v Speaker 5>think that Orthodox is lacking the unity, and I guess

445
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:37.799
<v Speaker 5>I am to me now.

446
00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:40.960
<v Speaker 2>And my first question to you was, well, then why

447
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:44.359
<v Speaker 2>does if the Roman Catholic Church has the unity supposedly,

448
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:48.440
<v Speaker 2>is that a unity of faith and belief or just

449
00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:51.160
<v Speaker 2>a unity of we all believe in Francis and then

450
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:54.079
<v Speaker 2>underneath Francis it's all fair game to do whatever you want,

451
00:26:54.200 --> 00:26:56.640
<v Speaker 2>because that's what I see and that's what I experience

452
00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:59.519
<v Speaker 2>in the Roman Catholic world. I see no unity between

453
00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:03.960
<v Speaker 2>the no Asorto hippie mass and Nosra Tat and the

454
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:06.920
<v Speaker 2>SSPX Latin mass down the road. There's no unity between

455
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:09.640
<v Speaker 2>those things. The only unity that exists is a common

456
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:14.000
<v Speaker 2>confession of Pope Francis or the papacy. So my point

457
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:17.839
<v Speaker 2>is precisely that that unity or the oneness of one

458
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:21.519
<v Speaker 2>Holy Catholic Apostolic refers then too, we're all one under

459
00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:26.240
<v Speaker 2>the pope, but not a unity of actual theological faith confession.

460
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:29.480
<v Speaker 2>Hence my argument that the Roman Catholic Church has two

461
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:31.039
<v Speaker 2>different competing creeds within it.

462
00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:36.200
<v Speaker 5>I think that you and I have different concepts of

463
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:37.200
<v Speaker 5>unity going.

464
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:40.000
<v Speaker 2>So what is the oneness of the Roman Caalic Church?

465
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:41.599
<v Speaker 3>Then? Faith?

466
00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:44.160
<v Speaker 2>One? How is it one faith when there's two different

467
00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:45.359
<v Speaker 2>creeds with two different faiths.

468
00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:49.519
<v Speaker 3>Both recite the Apostles creed.

469
00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:53.839
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, the Nicene Creed, where the Uniates recite

470
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:56.400
<v Speaker 2>the Philioque. Ascume me. They don't recite the philio oquay

471
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:58.039
<v Speaker 2>and the rest of the Romancolic Church does. Do you

472
00:27:58.039 --> 00:28:05.279
<v Speaker 2>not know what I'm talking about? I feel like I'm sorry,

473
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:06.839
<v Speaker 2>I'm not trying to be mean, but like, so, this

474
00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:09.680
<v Speaker 2>is a really basic So all of the Eastern Roman Catholics,

475
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:14.920
<v Speaker 2>the Eastern Uni eight Catholic Church, Melchites, whatever a Russian Catholics,

476
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:19.839
<v Speaker 2>Greek Catholics, they recite a different creed, literally, a different

477
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:23.200
<v Speaker 2>Nicene Creed than the rest of the Latin Church. They

478
00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:25.920
<v Speaker 2>cite the creed that we Orthodox have, which is without

479
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:26.880
<v Speaker 2>the Philioque.

480
00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:28.599
<v Speaker 3>That's an issue.

481
00:28:28.599 --> 00:28:31.319
<v Speaker 5>But I thought you were saying between the Nova Sorto

482
00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:32.680
<v Speaker 5>and the SSP, I.

483
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:36.200
<v Speaker 2>Made a different analogy to a lack of actual unity

484
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.640
<v Speaker 2>between those groups. Yes, I did, but that wasn't in

485
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:41.240
<v Speaker 2>a reference to the creed. I'm saying that they don't

486
00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:44.279
<v Speaker 2>believe the same theology. Almost all the SSPX and traditional

487
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:48.039
<v Speaker 2>Catholics do not agree with the theology Vatican two. So

488
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:50.599
<v Speaker 2>how is their unified faith when a giant portion of

489
00:28:50.599 --> 00:28:54.240
<v Speaker 2>the Church doesn't accept or rejects, or doesn't want to

490
00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:55.119
<v Speaker 2>believe Vatican two.

491
00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:00.960
<v Speaker 5>I think that there's a there's a distinction to be

492
00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:05.880
<v Speaker 5>made between the what what is officially the faith that

493
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:12.039
<v Speaker 5>is prayed at Mass, and what is the faith that

494
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:17.240
<v Speaker 5>is demonstrated in say a typical novasorto.

495
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:20.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking abou Vatican two documents in the dogmas and

496
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:23.839
<v Speaker 2>teaching the Vatican two. Regardless of what you believe, when

497
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:26.519
<v Speaker 2>you walk into a novsorto or an SSPX Mass, do you,

498
00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:28.359
<v Speaker 2>as a Roman Caouolic captain, belie Vatican two.

499
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:34.640
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what that would even mean. Believe Vatican two.

500
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:36.240
<v Speaker 3>It wasn't a dogmatic council.

501
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:39.519
<v Speaker 2>It is a dogmatic council. No, that's totally false. No,

502
00:29:39.559 --> 00:29:41.960
<v Speaker 2>it's not. It's what Paul the six said, was it

503
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:45.920
<v Speaker 2>quote proclaimed no new dogmas. There's four separate statements from

504
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:48.519
<v Speaker 2>the popes that say it is dogmatic. So it's a

505
00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:53.359
<v Speaker 2>total trad myth. It's a trad myth. That's yes, it is.

506
00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:55.160
<v Speaker 2>Do you want me to give you the four statements

507
00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:56.559
<v Speaker 2>from the Vatican that you have to believe it?

508
00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:02.559
<v Speaker 5>Sure, but they they state that it's an that I

509
00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:03.880
<v Speaker 5>don't even know what I'm saying is, I.

510
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:07.000
<v Speaker 3>Don't know what that would mean. It's an ecumenical council,

511
00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:08.319
<v Speaker 3>you're what they state?

512
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:11.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you have to believe in acumenical council. You

513
00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:14.000
<v Speaker 2>think that when the Pope confirms an ecumenical council for

514
00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:15.960
<v Speaker 2>the entire church on faith and morals, you don't have

515
00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:20.000
<v Speaker 2>to believe it all. All Paul the sixth said was

516
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:23.200
<v Speaker 2>that it proclaimed no new dogmas. He never said it's

517
00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:26.720
<v Speaker 2>not dogmatic. And in fact, Francis and every Roman Catholic act,

518
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:29.359
<v Speaker 2>why are you interrupting? Every Roman Catholic after the Council,

519
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:32.759
<v Speaker 2>Every Roman, every Pope has enforced Vatican two and the

520
00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:35.319
<v Speaker 2>New Mass on the entire church. So the idea that

521
00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:37.720
<v Speaker 2>you don't have to believe it is ludicrous. Every Romancallolic

522
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:40.000
<v Speaker 2>church that you go to tells you and teaches you

523
00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:42.720
<v Speaker 2>in the catechism that you must accept the documents of

524
00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:43.319
<v Speaker 2>Vatican Two.

525
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:46.440
<v Speaker 3>What must I accept from the documents?

526
00:30:46.599 --> 00:30:48.720
<v Speaker 2>All of the teaching, All the documents of Vatican two

527
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:50.000
<v Speaker 2>are signed off by the pepacy.

528
00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:55.200
<v Speaker 5>What specifically do I as a layers all of them?

529
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:57.480
<v Speaker 2>The entirety of it. You don't get to reject any

530
00:30:57.480 --> 00:30:59.839
<v Speaker 2>of it because it's ordinary universal teaching.

531
00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:05.000
<v Speaker 3>What new doctrine was brought in in Vatican two.

532
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:07.319
<v Speaker 2>Well, Paul the six claims there was no new doctrines.

533
00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:09.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't believe that. I believe that Vatican two, with

534
00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:13.200
<v Speaker 2>no stro Tat, for example, taught that Hindus now worship

535
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:15.359
<v Speaker 2>the One True God as do Muslims. Do you believe

536
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:17.839
<v Speaker 2>that Muslims and Hindus worship the same God as Roman Catholics.

537
00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:25.200
<v Speaker 5>I think that that can be scrutinized a bit further

538
00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:27.319
<v Speaker 5>than the way you just stated.

539
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:30.480
<v Speaker 2>How do they believe in the Trinity? I mean, because

540
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.079
<v Speaker 2>that's the only one true God that exists.

541
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.839
<v Speaker 5>Right, Well, so I think this is I do have

542
00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:41.400
<v Speaker 5>an issue with that, And I see I've studied this problem,

543
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:41.960
<v Speaker 5>and I see the.

544
00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:46.079
<v Speaker 3>Same issue that you see.

545
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:48.799
<v Speaker 2>Because it's not true. That's because you have some discernment. Correct,

546
00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:52.880
<v Speaker 2>It's not true Muslims and Catholics and Orthodox do not

547
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:55.079
<v Speaker 2>worship the same God because they use the word God.

548
00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:59.480
<v Speaker 2>And in fact, Vatican goes as far as to say

549
00:31:59.480 --> 00:32:03.559
<v Speaker 2>that Muslims and Catholics have the same faith as Abraham.

550
00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:06.559
<v Speaker 2>And yet Jesus says in John five that Abraham rejoiced

551
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:07.880
<v Speaker 2>to see his day and saw it was glad to

552
00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:10.880
<v Speaker 2>see me John eight. John five through eight, Jesus constantly

553
00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:13.480
<v Speaker 2>argues with the Pharisees that Abraham believed in him. Well,

554
00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:19.160
<v Speaker 2>then Muslims are not of the Abramic faith. Sure so Well,

555
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:21.759
<v Speaker 2>if that's sure, then Vatican too is false. If you

556
00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:23.960
<v Speaker 2>say sure, then Vatican to is false because it says

557
00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:24.559
<v Speaker 2>the opposite of that.

558
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:29.279
<v Speaker 5>I grasp what you're saying, and I've wrestled with the

559
00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:30.359
<v Speaker 5>same problem.

560
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:32.759
<v Speaker 2>Well, this is an example of why Rome is a

561
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:33.880
<v Speaker 2>contradictory position.

562
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:38.880
<v Speaker 5>If I could, I just want to explain how I

563
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:43.480
<v Speaker 5>read what is in what I can do there. It's

564
00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:46.200
<v Speaker 5>you know, I will say that this is what is

565
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:49.519
<v Speaker 5>called weaponized ambiguity, and I think that there is a

566
00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:50.279
<v Speaker 5>huge problem.

567
00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:53.640
<v Speaker 2>I know, man, I mean, I've heard all this since

568
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:55.680
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and five when I was I was going

569
00:32:55.720 --> 00:32:57.559
<v Speaker 2>to the Latin mass in two thousand and five, and

570
00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:00.000
<v Speaker 2>I've heard about weaponize ambiguity. Do you think it's ambiguous

571
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:02.799
<v Speaker 2>when the Pope goes into the moss and praise towards Mecca?

572
00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:05.119
<v Speaker 2>Is that ambiguous or is he acting? Is he acting

573
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:05.920
<v Speaker 2>out this theology.

574
00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:11.880
<v Speaker 5>Yeah there, that's uh, that's wackiness. Uh, and I'm with

575
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:12.319
<v Speaker 5>you on that.

576
00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:15.240
<v Speaker 2>But okay, well, then then then Vatican one is false

577
00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:16.960
<v Speaker 2>and the Roman Sea has defected.

578
00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:19.599
<v Speaker 3>I don't think that's the case.

579
00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:21.839
<v Speaker 2>How are you keeping the true faith if you're praying

580
00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:23.960
<v Speaker 2>in Moss towards Mecca.

581
00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:30.160
<v Speaker 5>I mean I don't think you would. You certainly are

582
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:34.119
<v Speaker 5>committing at least heresy, if not apostasy.

583
00:33:34.359 --> 00:33:36.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so then Vatican One's not true and Rome can

584
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.480
<v Speaker 2>error and the papacy is not indefectible.

585
00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:43.000
<v Speaker 3>I don't think that that's necessarily true.

586
00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:45.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you just literally said that you think it's heretical.

587
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:49.160
<v Speaker 2>Francis and Benedict did it?

588
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:50.720
<v Speaker 3>Mm hmm.

589
00:33:51.799 --> 00:33:54.559
<v Speaker 2>So are they heretics who defected or not?

590
00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:02.400
<v Speaker 5>I can answer that, But I wanted to address the

591
00:34:03.160 --> 00:34:04.519
<v Speaker 5>bit about Vatican.

592
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:07.039
<v Speaker 2>To the you were Okay, sure, God Like.

593
00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:10.239
<v Speaker 5>I have no problem going through methodically on this, but

594
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:11.800
<v Speaker 5>I just I don't want to go all over the

595
00:34:11.840 --> 00:34:13.760
<v Speaker 5>place and lose where we were.

596
00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:16.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay, let me can I read the paragraph? It says

597
00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:21.199
<v Speaker 2>the Church regards with esteem the Muslims. Muslims adore the

598
00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:25.079
<v Speaker 2>one God living and subsisting in himself merciful and all

599
00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:27.480
<v Speaker 2>powerful creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men.

600
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:31.119
<v Speaker 2>Muslims take pains to submit wholeheartedly to his decrees, just

601
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:35.199
<v Speaker 2>like Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure.

602
00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:38.320
<v Speaker 2>In Lincoln itself submitted to God. Though they do not

603
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:42.000
<v Speaker 2>acknowledge Jesus as God, they honor him as a prophet.

604
00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:44.280
<v Speaker 2>And then it goes on to say they value the

605
00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:47.360
<v Speaker 2>moral life and the worship of God through prayer, almsgiving,

606
00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:50.719
<v Speaker 2>and fasting. This gives the impression that we have the

607
00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:54.960
<v Speaker 2>same common faith and that God accepts Islamic prayer, almsgiving,

608
00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:57.199
<v Speaker 2>and fasting, and none of that's true.

609
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:03.119
<v Speaker 5>So yeah, I mean, that's uh, there's a lot of

610
00:35:03.159 --> 00:35:07.519
<v Speaker 5>problems in that statement, but I think that it's important

611
00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:13.800
<v Speaker 5>to look at the specific wording, Like they, I don't

612
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:15.760
<v Speaker 5>have it in front of me, but I could get

613
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:16.440
<v Speaker 5>it in front of me.

614
00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:23.679
<v Speaker 3>They said that they claim to have Abrahamic faith or

615
00:35:24.280 --> 00:35:26.639
<v Speaker 3>what is that?

616
00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:29.440
<v Speaker 2>No, it actually says that. It says that they adore

617
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:31.960
<v Speaker 2>the one God living and subsisting in himself. Doesn't say

618
00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:33.239
<v Speaker 2>they claim to. It says they do it.

619
00:35:35.719 --> 00:35:39.079
<v Speaker 5>Well, So let me just explain how I read that

620
00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:42.719
<v Speaker 5>and it's not may or may not be what was

621
00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:45.280
<v Speaker 5>intended in the words, and I certainly think that the

622
00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:47.639
<v Speaker 5>way it's worded is highly problematic.

623
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:49.679
<v Speaker 2>Well, I thought that the papacy was here to give

624
00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.760
<v Speaker 2>us clarity, certitude, and to guide us and preserve it.

625
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:54.599
<v Speaker 2>So now it's weaponized ambiguity.

626
00:35:55.239 --> 00:35:56.800
<v Speaker 3>Vatican two definitely did not.

627
00:35:56.719 --> 00:36:00.760
<v Speaker 2>Be Okay, Well, then then the papacy doesn't work, because.

628
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:06.280
<v Speaker 3>I don't think that has to be true. But the

629
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:07.119
<v Speaker 3>way that I.

630
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:09.440
<v Speaker 2>Read that, so we need you. I'm not trying to

631
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:11.039
<v Speaker 2>be reade, but you don't see how Protestant this is.

632
00:36:11.079 --> 00:36:14.000
<v Speaker 2>We actually need you, an individual Catholic, to suss through

633
00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:17.000
<v Speaker 2>all these stacks of papal documents to tell us the

634
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:19.440
<v Speaker 2>true papal meaning of the true papal councils.

635
00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:21.760
<v Speaker 3>No, I'm not suggesting that, well, but.

636
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:23.480
<v Speaker 2>You are, because you're saying that the way to read

637
00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:25.360
<v Speaker 2>it is blah blah blah blah blah.

638
00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:26.239
<v Speaker 3>No, I'm saying.

639
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:30.480
<v Speaker 5>I'm saying that each individual has to apply critical thinking

640
00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:33.000
<v Speaker 5>when they analyze anything.

641
00:36:33.199 --> 00:36:35.679
<v Speaker 2>Does Vatican one say that you judge the first see

642
00:36:35.719 --> 00:36:38.880
<v Speaker 2>and apply critical thinking to its teachings, or does it

643
00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:42.159
<v Speaker 2>say you submit with docility to whatever it teare, you're.

644
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.760
<v Speaker 3>Not supposed to violate your conscience.

645
00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:48.159
<v Speaker 2>So it's not an issue of conscience because it also

646
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:50.880
<v Speaker 2>says that you submit with docility. That's the teaching of

647
00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:53.719
<v Speaker 2>Vatican one is that the laity do not judge the

648
00:36:53.719 --> 00:36:56.679
<v Speaker 2>first see you submit with facility to its rulings and teachings.

649
00:36:58.000 --> 00:36:58.679
<v Speaker 3>That's true.

650
00:36:59.079 --> 00:37:00.920
<v Speaker 2>Then you're not in a position to say that this

651
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:02.239
<v Speaker 2>is weaponized ambiguity.

652
00:37:03.559 --> 00:37:05.840
<v Speaker 3>I think we're getting too scattered, and.

653
00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:08.239
<v Speaker 2>No, it's this is precisely the issue. It's not, it's

654
00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:09.320
<v Speaker 2>precisely the issue.

655
00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:12.880
<v Speaker 5>Well, it's just I want to be able to address

656
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:15.119
<v Speaker 5>that one statement that Vatican too.

657
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:17.519
<v Speaker 3>I'm perfectly fine to move on to the other points.

658
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:22.199
<v Speaker 5>But uh, the way the way I grasp what is

659
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:26.079
<v Speaker 5>said there in Vatican two, which admittedly it sucks, the

660
00:37:26.119 --> 00:37:29.320
<v Speaker 5>way it's worded, it's like, I.

661
00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:32.199
<v Speaker 2>Mean, these are dogmatic statements, and you're saying it sucks.

662
00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:35.480
<v Speaker 2>So this is like saying that divine revelations sucks.

663
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:37.239
<v Speaker 3>They're not dogmatic states.

664
00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:39.760
<v Speaker 2>They are dogmatic statements. I'll give you four examples of

665
00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:41.480
<v Speaker 2>the pope saying that you have to accept all the

666
00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:42.480
<v Speaker 2>documents of Vatican two.

667
00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:44.800
<v Speaker 3>There's nothing for me to accept.

668
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:48.440
<v Speaker 2>There's that's just that you're lying to yourself because you

669
00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:51.320
<v Speaker 2>are told in other places four times that you must

670
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:52.639
<v Speaker 2>accept all the Vatican.

671
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:56.119
<v Speaker 3>Two and that means nothing. That they can keep repeating that.

672
00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:58.800
<v Speaker 2>But that so you don't actually follow the papacy. So

673
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:01.079
<v Speaker 2>that thank you for admitting my point that you interpret

674
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:05.360
<v Speaker 2>off all the papers when you want to. No, you

675
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:07.599
<v Speaker 2>literally just said you don't have to accept Vatican who's

676
00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:09.440
<v Speaker 2>dogmatic even though the Pope tells you you have to.

677
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:12.960
<v Speaker 3>No, again, we're jump We're jumping to another point.

678
00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:15.199
<v Speaker 2>I just wanted to address because you're saying that a

679
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:18.800
<v Speaker 2>dogmatic teaching is sucky, and I'm telling you that you

680
00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:20.800
<v Speaker 2>don't get to say that in the Roman Gothic system,

681
00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:24.679
<v Speaker 2>and it is dogmatic, Yes it is. If I so

682
00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:27.000
<v Speaker 2>if I give you four places where the Pope says

683
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:29.159
<v Speaker 2>you have to accept Vatican two, you're telling me that

684
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:30.159
<v Speaker 2>you don't have to listen to.

685
00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:36.559
<v Speaker 5>That except Vatican two, yes mean something in practical reality.

686
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:39.119
<v Speaker 2>It means you must believe. Are you Why are you

687
00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:41.599
<v Speaker 2>lying to yourself and lying to the audience because I

688
00:38:41.639 --> 00:38:44.679
<v Speaker 2>can open up the Catholic the Roman Catholic Catechism sites

689
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:48.400
<v Speaker 2>from Vatican to countless times, and you're telling me that Roan.

690
00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:53.239
<v Speaker 11>Doesn't teach that. It's absolutely authoritative and binding. It doesn't

691
00:38:53.239 --> 00:38:57.000
<v Speaker 11>have to be infallible. Yes, it is binding. It is

692
00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:00.280
<v Speaker 11>ordinary teaching. Do you know what ordinary teaching is? You

693
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:02.119
<v Speaker 11>don't even know. There's two different creeds in the church.

694
00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:03.519
<v Speaker 11>Do you know what ordinary teaching is?

695
00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:08.360
<v Speaker 3>What do you mean two different creeds?

696
00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:09.639
<v Speaker 9>No?

697
00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:12.599
<v Speaker 2>Earlier, the two different creeds between the West and the East,

698
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:16.960
<v Speaker 2>the Uniates and the Latin Church. Okay, so what do

699
00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:21.119
<v Speaker 2>you know what ordinary teaching is? Yeah?

700
00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:23.000
<v Speaker 3>The ordinary magisterium?

701
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:26.079
<v Speaker 2>Right? Do you have to accept that? According to Vatican one?

702
00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:33.360
<v Speaker 2>If no, there's no ifs. Do you have to accept this? Okay?

703
00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:35.119
<v Speaker 2>What's the criteria for ordinary?

704
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:35.360
<v Speaker 3>Right?

705
00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:37.440
<v Speaker 2>What's the criteria for it?

706
00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:41.320
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I can't spit it out at the moment.

707
00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:45.559
<v Speaker 2>It's any time that that the pope is teaching authoritatively

708
00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:48.480
<v Speaker 2>in concert with what the church is always st taught

709
00:39:48.519 --> 00:39:51.400
<v Speaker 2>for the entire church. You have to accept that, and

710
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:54.840
<v Speaker 2>it's and it's free from error. It is also according

711
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:59.239
<v Speaker 2>to Vatican one under the Petrin kerorism. Vatican Two's documents

712
00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:03.440
<v Speaker 2>listen Attican two's documents are affirmed by the Roman sea

713
00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:07.320
<v Speaker 2>for the entire Church on faith and morals. You are

714
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:09.079
<v Speaker 2>told in every Catholic church in the world that you

715
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:11.079
<v Speaker 2>have to accept it, so you do not have the

716
00:40:11.079 --> 00:40:13.239
<v Speaker 2>liberty of rejecting Vatican two. It's false.

717
00:40:14.119 --> 00:40:17.039
<v Speaker 3>All right, here's the issue. What you just said, it

718
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:19.920
<v Speaker 3>can't contradict itself.

719
00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:24.400
<v Speaker 2>Only if romanicanthalsism is true. I'm arguing that it does contradict.

720
00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:26.320
<v Speaker 2>That's the whole point of why we're having this conversation.

721
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:29.760
<v Speaker 5>No, but what I'm saying is that if there is

722
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:34.079
<v Speaker 5>a contradiction, which you're highlighting, and I'm with you on that,

723
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:35.719
<v Speaker 5>then that's the problem.

724
00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:38.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it means the Roman system is false. It

725
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:41.639
<v Speaker 2>means the system is false. That's the point.

726
00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:42.360
<v Speaker 3>I don't think.

727
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:44.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry that you don't see that, because it's a

728
00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:46.000
<v Speaker 2>systemic level refutation.

729
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:50.840
<v Speaker 5>I get where you're coming from, but I don't think

730
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:54.000
<v Speaker 5>that you've heard my case on that, and I'm just trying.

731
00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:56.440
<v Speaker 2>To your case was just the wording is sucky, which

732
00:40:56.480 --> 00:40:58.559
<v Speaker 2>I've heard for twenty years.

733
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:02.039
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and I'm just trying to parse out these two issues.

734
00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:05.840
<v Speaker 5>I am perfectly fine to have the conversation that you're

735
00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:08.199
<v Speaker 5>trying to have right now, But we have not addressed

736
00:41:08.199 --> 00:41:11.119
<v Speaker 5>that statement from or I haven't been able for it.

737
00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:20.840
<v Speaker 5>So the way I read that is replace them with

738
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:23.079
<v Speaker 5>unbaptized individual.

739
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:28.400
<v Speaker 3>Can an unbaptized individual pray?

740
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:31.519
<v Speaker 2>None of that has anything to do with the fact

741
00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:33.599
<v Speaker 2>that it's trying to say they have the faith of Abraham.

742
00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:35.960
<v Speaker 2>That's the problem in the statement. The faith of Abraham

743
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:37.360
<v Speaker 2>was faith in Christ.

744
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:43.159
<v Speaker 5>Is a single Muslim representative of the entirety of Islam

745
00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:44.000
<v Speaker 5>the religion.

746
00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:49.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't see how that's relevant because Islam, as a

747
00:41:49.639 --> 00:41:53.360
<v Speaker 2>universal position rejects the Trinity and the deity of Christ.

748
00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:55.760
<v Speaker 2>So it doesn't matter what one Muslim thinks or believed

749
00:41:55.760 --> 00:41:59.079
<v Speaker 2>when the public profession of the religion is that they

750
00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:01.920
<v Speaker 2>are unitarian and they reject the Trinity. In fact, they

751
00:42:01.960 --> 00:42:04.280
<v Speaker 2>believe in putting to death people who believe in the Trinity.

752
00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:06.199
<v Speaker 3>But this is what I'm trying to say.

753
00:42:06.280 --> 00:42:13.039
<v Speaker 5>If an atheist is unbaptized and praise, is that somehow invalid.

754
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:14.599
<v Speaker 3>Can an atheist not pray?

755
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:17.599
<v Speaker 2>Praying? And none of that has anything to do with

756
00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:20.840
<v Speaker 2>the public profession of their faith. What the theology is

757
00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:24.920
<v Speaker 2>the public profession of the religion. This is not saying

758
00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:27.159
<v Speaker 2>it's not saying, can God choose to listen to an

759
00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:30.880
<v Speaker 2>individual when they pray. It's saying that Muslims have the

760
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:34.239
<v Speaker 2>same God as us, and it's just categorically false. They don't.

761
00:42:35.719 --> 00:42:38.320
<v Speaker 5>I totally see where you're coming from, but I think

762
00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:41.239
<v Speaker 5>there's a discontinuity and how you're reading it and how

763
00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:44.880
<v Speaker 5>I'm reading it. I'm reading it from the perspective of

764
00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:45.880
<v Speaker 5>they shouldn't.

765
00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:47.920
<v Speaker 2>And all of this begs the questions, and that's the

766
00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:50.960
<v Speaker 2>whole time. And man, I give up, because I'm going

767
00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:54.599
<v Speaker 2>to give you right here. Actually, it's actually five places

768
00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:56.519
<v Speaker 2>that tell you that you have to believe in Vatican two.

769
00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:00.320
<v Speaker 2>All of these are right here underneath my I wrote.

770
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:03.400
<v Speaker 2>I did a video called was Vatican Two Infallible? If

771
00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:08.639
<v Speaker 2>you look up this video, I list five papal documents

772
00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:11.360
<v Speaker 2>underneath that tell you that you have to believe Vatican Two.

773
00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:13.840
<v Speaker 2>So look, I appreciate you coming on, Ryan, it was

774
00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:16.280
<v Speaker 2>good to chat with you. I wish you well. I

775
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:18.159
<v Speaker 2>just don't buy it, man, And if you want to

776
00:43:18.199 --> 00:43:21.800
<v Speaker 2>reject Vatican two, go for it. But it's not a

777
00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:26.719
<v Speaker 2>consistent Romancalthy position to reject something that five papal documents

778
00:43:26.760 --> 00:43:29.119
<v Speaker 2>tell you have to accept. And here they are. The

779
00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:32.559
<v Speaker 2>first one is right here. It's Francis talking about the

780
00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:36.800
<v Speaker 2>dogmatic nature of the reforms of Vatican two. It's his

781
00:43:36.920 --> 00:43:40.119
<v Speaker 2>audience that he gave in twenty seventeen. There's the first one.

782
00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:42.679
<v Speaker 2>Second one is another.

783
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:44.440
<v Speaker 3>Speech.

784
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:48.519
<v Speaker 2>This one is John the twenty third's opening speech to

785
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:51.639
<v Speaker 2>the Vatican two, and he says it is an ecumenical

786
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:55.079
<v Speaker 2>council that is dogmatic and must be accepted. The third

787
00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:59.599
<v Speaker 2>one is this one, which you have to hit translate

788
00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:04.760
<v Speaker 2>into wish. It's only in Italian. It is a discussion

789
00:44:04.840 --> 00:44:10.039
<v Speaker 2>from Paul to six I Believe in nineteen seventy six,

790
00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:11.920
<v Speaker 2>where the sixth says that you have to believe it.

791
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:14.760
<v Speaker 2>It's dogmatic, it's just a trad myth. This is like

792
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:17.880
<v Speaker 2>they're inventing ways to try to make the system work.

793
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:22.039
<v Speaker 2>When all you have to do is demonstrate one dogmatic contradiction,

794
00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:25.119
<v Speaker 2>the whole system is false. And it's like Roman Callis

795
00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:29.119
<v Speaker 2>can't conceive of that being a systemic level defeater because

796
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:30.880
<v Speaker 2>in their mind, you can just keep stacking up more

797
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:34.760
<v Speaker 2>explanations and more quote evidences. So pious. The eleventh casti Kanoba,

798
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:37.639
<v Speaker 2>paragraph one oh four This says that you're bound by

799
00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:39.840
<v Speaker 2>more than what is even extraordinary. You have to believe

800
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:42.400
<v Speaker 2>in whatever the Roman Callloic Church, the Roman Seed teaches,

801
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:46.559
<v Speaker 2>even if it's ordinary teaching and not ordinary magisterium, even

802
00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:49.840
<v Speaker 2>just the ordinary teaching is supposed to be submitted to

803
00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:53.159
<v Speaker 2>with docility. And the last one is see Deligious of

804
00:44:53.199 --> 00:44:56.679
<v Speaker 2>Pius to twelfth. Obedience is necessary even if you think

805
00:44:56.760 --> 00:44:59.719
<v Speaker 2>the pope is wrong. Do you see this all you

806
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:05.039
<v Speaker 2>football Roman Catholics See De Legas Pius the tense canonization

807
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:08.559
<v Speaker 2>by Pius the twelfth. Even if you think the pope

808
00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:13.079
<v Speaker 2>is wrong, you still must submit with docility. That is

809
00:45:13.119 --> 00:45:18.280
<v Speaker 2>what Roman Catholic Vatican want obedience had in mind. So

810
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:23.119
<v Speaker 2>there's the five things that prove you don't get to

811
00:45:23.199 --> 00:45:26.000
<v Speaker 2>pick and choose and throw out Vatican two. And you

812
00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:28.599
<v Speaker 2>notice he did two things there in that discussion. At

813
00:45:28.599 --> 00:45:31.559
<v Speaker 2>first he says, no, I don't have to accept Vatican two. No,

814
00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:35.000
<v Speaker 2>actually you do. Here's five examples of where you have to. Oh, well,

815
00:45:35.239 --> 00:45:37.360
<v Speaker 2>it's the wording. Which one is it? Do you not

816
00:45:37.480 --> 00:45:39.719
<v Speaker 2>have to accept it or is it just shitty wording?

817
00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:42.719
<v Speaker 2>And by the way, the Roman Sea is supposed to

818
00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:45.719
<v Speaker 2>be there to make it clear and not put us

819
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:48.440
<v Speaker 2>in this Protestant position of we don't know what it means.

820
00:45:48.440 --> 00:45:52.000
<v Speaker 2>It's ambiguous, it's shitty wording. So everybody should go watch

821
00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:56.960
<v Speaker 2>this podcast from twenty twenty where we walk through all

822
00:45:56.960 --> 00:46:13.639
<v Speaker 2>of these different documents. Yeah, all right, vain, what's up?

823
00:46:14.199 --> 00:46:16.559
<v Speaker 2>It's it's not uh, I'm not trying to be rude,

824
00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:18.760
<v Speaker 2>but it's not catechist's time. So if you guys have

825
00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:22.599
<v Speaker 2>a question about that stuff, it's not it's not what

826
00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:23.280
<v Speaker 2>we're doing right now.

827
00:46:29.079 --> 00:46:30.000
<v Speaker 3>You know, what's up? Change?

828
00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:39.039
<v Speaker 5>Somebody told me this uh theory they had about like ascaton.

829
00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:42.519
<v Speaker 12>Theology, that they think that just because a scripture says

830
00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:44.960
<v Speaker 12>that God wills all.

831
00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:49.119
<v Speaker 6>To be saved, that means that everyone will.

832
00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:53.679
<v Speaker 3>End up, uh, you know, with salvation, and that how.

833
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:56.800
<v Speaker 12>This happens is that hell is temporary. In the fires

834
00:46:56.840 --> 00:47:00.079
<v Speaker 12>of Hell are there, and.

835
00:47:00.679 --> 00:47:02.880
<v Speaker 2>There's no place in the New Testament where Jesus says

836
00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:05.000
<v Speaker 2>anything about it being temporary. In fact, he always speaks

837
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:08.159
<v Speaker 2>it of us everlasting. So I mean the fact that

838
00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:11.079
<v Speaker 2>God permits something doesn't equate to him willing it. So

839
00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:14.519
<v Speaker 2>God permits death, God permits bad things to happen, doesn't

840
00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:16.159
<v Speaker 2>mean that he wills it happened. So the fact that

841
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:18.679
<v Speaker 2>he desires all men to be saved does not mean

842
00:47:18.679 --> 00:47:22.320
<v Speaker 2>that he will cause almen to be saved.

843
00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:25.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I guess I didn't know how to explain it

844
00:47:25.960 --> 00:47:26.440
<v Speaker 3>the way he were it.

845
00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:30.880
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, thank human, Yeah, no good questions. Appreciate it. Yeah.

846
00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:35.880
<v Speaker 2>I think universalism is kind of a It's obviously not

847
00:47:36.039 --> 00:47:39.280
<v Speaker 2>anywhere in the scriptures, so it's really a stretch when

848
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:44.000
<v Speaker 2>people try to argue that B three A K three

849
00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:49.480
<v Speaker 2>MKG hope all as well. What are your arguments against Anglicans.

850
00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we had an Anglican come on a livestream

851
00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:55.519
<v Speaker 2>about a month ago and we had a whole, I

852
00:47:55.559 --> 00:47:57.760
<v Speaker 2>don't know, hour long debate about branch theory. So I

853
00:47:57.800 --> 00:48:01.000
<v Speaker 2>would say, look up my argument with the Anglican branch

854
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:04.320
<v Speaker 2>theory guy. I think that branch theory makes absolutely no

855
00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:06.440
<v Speaker 2>sense in terms of what the Church of the first

856
00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:09.800
<v Speaker 2>thousand years when they said one Holy Catholic Apstolic, nobody

857
00:48:09.800 --> 00:48:15.000
<v Speaker 2>thought about that as branch theory. Santo five dollars. Would

858
00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:19.199
<v Speaker 2>you speak on statements of you, Pope Eugene the Fourth,

859
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:21.159
<v Speaker 2>who said that if you shed your blood for Christ,

860
00:48:21.440 --> 00:48:25.400
<v Speaker 2>even if you're schismatic, you are not saved. I mean, yeah, exactly.

861
00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:28.119
<v Speaker 2>That's like Cantade Domino, I think, is a really clear

862
00:48:28.679 --> 00:48:30.840
<v Speaker 2>statement that there's no such thing in the Roman Catholic

863
00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:34.079
<v Speaker 2>mindset traditionally speaking of there being martyrs outside of communion

864
00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:36.760
<v Speaker 2>with Rome. That's why when I'm saying to them about

865
00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:39.719
<v Speaker 2>a century earlier, says not just that you have to

866
00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:41.320
<v Speaker 2>be in commune with Rome to be saved, you also

867
00:48:41.320 --> 00:48:43.280
<v Speaker 2>have to believe in the pope as the quizas Haderak,

868
00:48:43.360 --> 00:48:47.199
<v Speaker 2>the world emperor to be saved. So pretty clearly the

869
00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:52.000
<v Speaker 2>medieval papal mindset did not have the Vatican to atate

870
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:57.239
<v Speaker 2>Muslims and atheists can be saved in Islam mindset. I

871
00:48:57.280 --> 00:49:00.800
<v Speaker 2>think it's absolutely an obvious contradiction between what Tade Domino

872
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:05.559
<v Speaker 2>says and I mean, but look, you don't get anywhere

873
00:49:05.559 --> 00:49:07.840
<v Speaker 2>pointing this out to the Roman Catholics. I mean, the

874
00:49:07.880 --> 00:49:12.000
<v Speaker 2>pillars of Orthodoxy were heretics and schismatics for centuries. Now

875
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:15.199
<v Speaker 2>they're quote saints and they they don't care. Yeah, so

876
00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:16.800
<v Speaker 2>what the pope can do whatever he wants. So, I mean,

877
00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:19.159
<v Speaker 2>you're talking to people who literally believe that. It's like

878
00:49:19.320 --> 00:49:22.760
<v Speaker 2>quantum papacy, that the pope can like retroactively make people

879
00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:25.000
<v Speaker 2>who were heretics for centuries suddenly saints. I mean, these

880
00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:25.880
<v Speaker 2>people are this crazy?

881
00:49:31.559 --> 00:49:44.039
<v Speaker 13>Manuel Hello, m hm oh, yeah, so I was.

882
00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:45.960
<v Speaker 14>This is my second time here.

883
00:49:48.519 --> 00:49:51.519
<v Speaker 6>I would like to ask about icons.

884
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:52.400
<v Speaker 3>Uh.

885
00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:55.760
<v Speaker 14>See, I was debating a Muslim, right, I just having

886
00:49:55.760 --> 00:49:59.639
<v Speaker 14>a discussion with a Muslim, and he brings up, like

887
00:49:59.800 --> 00:50:03.440
<v Speaker 14>this the objection that in the Old Testament, I think

888
00:50:03.480 --> 00:50:07.480
<v Speaker 14>it says that you cannot like bow down to images

889
00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:09.960
<v Speaker 14>and stuff like that, right, So I was asking.

890
00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:12.519
<v Speaker 2>No, it says to not bow down to idols, because

891
00:50:12.519 --> 00:50:15.800
<v Speaker 2>the Jews bowed down to images, to the Arc, to

892
00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:19.400
<v Speaker 2>the Temple, to other human beings all the time. So

893
00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:22.800
<v Speaker 2>go read my article on icons. It's right, I did

894
00:50:22.840 --> 00:50:25.840
<v Speaker 2>have it up here. But read my article Biblical Defensive

895
00:50:25.960 --> 00:50:29.119
<v Speaker 2>icons and you'll see that. Also Joshua five, it says

896
00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:32.320
<v Speaker 2>that they all Joshua five thirty seven somewhere in there,

897
00:50:32.840 --> 00:50:36.239
<v Speaker 2>So they all prostrated before the Arc of the Covenant.

898
00:50:36.360 --> 00:50:38.559
<v Speaker 2>So I guess they're all idolaters. No, it's saying that

899
00:50:38.599 --> 00:50:41.320
<v Speaker 2>you can't bow down to images. It's not saying you

900
00:50:41.360 --> 00:50:44.880
<v Speaker 2>can't show bodily reverence. To holy things. All right. So

901
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:47.159
<v Speaker 2>this guy is saying he wants to come on if

902
00:50:47.480 --> 00:51:11.679
<v Speaker 2>if I if he are you there? If he go ahead?

903
00:51:12.760 --> 00:51:16.480
<v Speaker 2>Joshua seven six, Joshua torres close and fell on the

904
00:51:16.519 --> 00:51:18.719
<v Speaker 2>earth on his face before the ark of the Lord

905
00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:21.719
<v Speaker 2>until evening he and all of the elders of Israel.

906
00:51:21.719 --> 00:51:24.559
<v Speaker 2>Excuse me, it's a Joshua seven six, not Joshua five,

907
00:51:24.760 --> 00:51:31.320
<v Speaker 2>Joshua seven if he. I'm sorry that you have crazy Internet.

908
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:33.639
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't. I don't know why it's not connecting.

909
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:36.679
<v Speaker 2>So pop back out and pop back in. I'll go

910
00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:39.760
<v Speaker 2>to you next. Who was raising their hand? It's for

911
00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:42.920
<v Speaker 2>today's for people who disagree. So it's not catechumen day,

912
00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:53.199
<v Speaker 2>not being mean to the catechumens. Reality. What's up, Mohan?

913
00:51:53.320 --> 00:51:55.800
<v Speaker 2>Did you disagree? I'll go to you next. Go ahead,

914
00:51:57.159 --> 00:52:01.079
<v Speaker 2>I'll go to Ifi and the Mohan reality.

915
00:52:01.119 --> 00:52:01.519
<v Speaker 3>What something?

916
00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:20.239
<v Speaker 2>All right? We'll go to Ivye Mohan.

917
00:52:24.199 --> 00:52:25.599
<v Speaker 3>Hello, yep.

918
00:52:26.599 --> 00:52:31.239
<v Speaker 15>So I had a question regarding the church and its importance.

919
00:52:33.360 --> 00:52:36.239
<v Speaker 15>My father and my mother have been Protestants for like

920
00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:38.239
<v Speaker 15>forty years, and.

921
00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:41.320
<v Speaker 6>I can see that there's.

922
00:52:41.159 --> 00:52:45.800
<v Speaker 15>An issue in Protestantism where they leave out the church

923
00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:52.039
<v Speaker 15>and it becomes irrelevant basically, So I wanted to know, like,

924
00:52:52.320 --> 00:52:56.000
<v Speaker 15>since my parents disagree about the church and its importance, Like,

925
00:52:56.079 --> 00:52:58.679
<v Speaker 15>what's the best argument for why the church needs.

926
00:52:58.480 --> 00:53:02.239
<v Speaker 2>To be Like well, I mean, I mean Jesus says

927
00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:04.239
<v Speaker 2>in the New Testament that the church is his body,

928
00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:08.280
<v Speaker 2>it's his kingdom. Paul says, not to forsake the assembling together.

929
00:53:08.440 --> 00:53:11.599
<v Speaker 2>I mean, all those are direct injunctions against people who

930
00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:12.840
<v Speaker 2>would forsake the church.

931
00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:16.880
<v Speaker 15>But what if But what if they're just like two together?

932
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:18.719
<v Speaker 6>Isn't that the church basically.

933
00:53:19.360 --> 00:53:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, no, I mean two together is he says, his

934
00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:24.320
<v Speaker 2>presence is amongst them. That doesn't mean that there's not

935
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:27.320
<v Speaker 2>a liturgical worship service, because you're leaving all the rest

936
00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:29.599
<v Speaker 2>of the New Testament where he says that you also

937
00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:32.320
<v Speaker 2>have to feed and you know, feed on his flesh,

938
00:53:32.440 --> 00:53:35.360
<v Speaker 2>drink his blood, participate in the sacrament. So you don't

939
00:53:35.360 --> 00:53:37.719
<v Speaker 2>take that one passage in isolation from all the other

940
00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:38.840
<v Speaker 2>things that we're told to do.

941
00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:43.639
<v Speaker 15>Okay, So what if you live in a country where

942
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:46.960
<v Speaker 15>like the churches are controlled by the state and they're

943
00:53:47.079 --> 00:53:51.639
<v Speaker 15>very like infiltrated by progressive ideology and there isn't any

944
00:53:51.840 --> 00:53:53.800
<v Speaker 15>like churches basically that you.

945
00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:57.559
<v Speaker 2>Can go to well, I mean, I mean I would

946
00:53:57.599 --> 00:54:00.440
<v Speaker 2>say you only can go to Orthodox churches to begin with.

947
00:54:00.559 --> 00:54:03.000
<v Speaker 2>So I'm not sure what you mean by infiltrated in

948
00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:05.280
<v Speaker 2>what since you mean it? Do you mean like like

949
00:54:05.440 --> 00:54:06.800
<v Speaker 2>what kind of a country you're talking about?

950
00:54:08.079 --> 00:54:08.639
<v Speaker 6>IM?

951
00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:12.320
<v Speaker 3>So like, oh, yeah, it's it's it's pretty bad.

952
00:54:12.840 --> 00:54:13.039
<v Speaker 14>Yeah.

953
00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:15.400
<v Speaker 2>I think in those situations, like, you do the best

954
00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:18.159
<v Speaker 2>you can. So it's not like like if you aren't

955
00:54:18.199 --> 00:54:19.920
<v Speaker 2>able to get to a church, I don't think God.

956
00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:21.559
<v Speaker 2>God's not going to hold that against you. And it's

957
00:54:21.559 --> 00:54:26.000
<v Speaker 2>not your fault, it's not your you know, yeah, you know,

958
00:54:26.239 --> 00:54:29.599
<v Speaker 2>for example, in Tristan's case, he's eight hours from a

959
00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:32.880
<v Speaker 2>Serbian Orthodox priest and he had to make he did

960
00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:36.159
<v Speaker 2>a long distance kind of kisis and then you know,

961
00:54:36.239 --> 00:54:38.920
<v Speaker 2>he waited until, you know, six months to where he

962
00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:42.000
<v Speaker 2>was able to take a trip eight hours to get baptized. So,

963
00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:44.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, I would say that might be the situation

964
00:54:44.440 --> 00:54:46.719
<v Speaker 2>that people in other countries have to do, and you know,

965
00:54:46.760 --> 00:54:48.599
<v Speaker 2>you just you have to do your best, and in

966
00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:51.360
<v Speaker 2>some cases people actually can do better, you know. In

967
00:54:51.400 --> 00:54:54.000
<v Speaker 2>other words, like being alone and trying to be Orthodox

968
00:54:54.760 --> 00:54:57.400
<v Speaker 2>is not literally is not the worst situation in the world,

969
00:54:57.440 --> 00:55:00.559
<v Speaker 2>because if you are at a really horrible Orthodox church,

970
00:55:01.159 --> 00:55:03.679
<v Speaker 2>you would actually be better off being alone. I'm not

971
00:55:03.719 --> 00:55:06.840
<v Speaker 2>advocating that. I'm just saying that sometimes God providentially can

972
00:55:06.880 --> 00:55:09.239
<v Speaker 2>put us in those situations and they're actually a blessing

973
00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:12.880
<v Speaker 2>in disguise. Not that I'm saying you shouldn't go to church.

974
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:16.199
<v Speaker 2>I'm just saying that, you know, yeah, I don't. I

975
00:55:16.199 --> 00:55:17.800
<v Speaker 2>don't know what it's like in Denmark. I know it's

976
00:55:17.800 --> 00:55:20.360
<v Speaker 2>pretty bad. I'm sure it's totally cocked and all that,

977
00:55:20.440 --> 00:55:23.159
<v Speaker 2>but yeah it is. Yeah, I mean, just do the

978
00:55:23.159 --> 00:55:25.079
<v Speaker 2>best you can and then, you know, try when you

979
00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:27.800
<v Speaker 2>can go somewhere, visit orthodox church, try to try to

980
00:55:27.840 --> 00:55:30.519
<v Speaker 2>make contact with, you know, a solid priest that's like out,

981
00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:32.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, that's the nearest one to you, and then

982
00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:34.880
<v Speaker 2>set up a time when you can be catechized by

983
00:55:34.920 --> 00:55:38.159
<v Speaker 2>him and received. It is what people usually, what people

984
00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:44.440
<v Speaker 2>usually do. It's what Tristan did, Graham, what's up. Tristan

985
00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:46.719
<v Speaker 2>had to travel by donkey. He had to write a

986
00:55:46.760 --> 00:55:50.480
<v Speaker 2>donkey twenty hours across to Ecuador to get to some

987
00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:52.559
<v Speaker 2>someplace in New Mexico.

988
00:55:52.639 --> 00:55:59.639
<v Speaker 6>Go ahead, Hey, so that's just a question.

989
00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:05.519
<v Speaker 16>So what are the main reasons why you don't believe

990
00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:07.440
<v Speaker 16>in the theory of evolution?

991
00:56:11.320 --> 00:56:15.360
<v Speaker 2>My reasons are usually typically philosophical. I have read some

992
00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:20.679
<v Speaker 2>of the scientific critiques and questions about it. I would say,

993
00:56:20.920 --> 00:56:22.320
<v Speaker 2>just off the top of my head, it would be

994
00:56:22.360 --> 00:56:28.360
<v Speaker 2>something like, it's not directly observable, there's no evidence, is

995
00:56:28.400 --> 00:56:30.480
<v Speaker 2>not coherent to me, or the arguments have not been

996
00:56:30.519 --> 00:56:33.880
<v Speaker 2>convincing for why I should believe in a transmutation of species.

997
00:56:35.519 --> 00:56:39.360
<v Speaker 2>I think that philosophically the concept makes no sense. So

998
00:56:39.719 --> 00:56:40.760
<v Speaker 2>that's my approach to it.

999
00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:46.719
<v Speaker 16>Okay, And another question, what is what is your opinion

1000
00:56:46.760 --> 00:56:50.639
<v Speaker 16>on I know there's there's a debate in Christianity about

1001
00:56:50.679 --> 00:56:54.039
<v Speaker 16>like how old the Earth is, and they're like young

1002
00:56:54.079 --> 00:56:58.960
<v Speaker 16>Earth people. You take a younger view and is there

1003
00:56:59.000 --> 00:56:59.840
<v Speaker 16>like a is there like.

1004
00:56:59.760 --> 00:57:00.719
<v Speaker 6>A reason for that?

1005
00:57:02.960 --> 00:57:05.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I think that divine revelation backs up a youngervie.

1006
00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:09.199
<v Speaker 2>I was looking for the best critique I've ever read

1007
00:57:09.320 --> 00:57:14.559
<v Speaker 2>of evolutionary theory is actually in a in an odd place,

1008
00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:19.639
<v Speaker 2>and it's about a sixty page critique and it's in

1009
00:57:19.679 --> 00:57:23.199
<v Speaker 2>this book called sort of Nosis. I'm not recommending everything

1010
00:57:23.199 --> 00:57:24.599
<v Speaker 2>in this book because this book has a lot of

1011
00:57:24.679 --> 00:57:26.840
<v Speaker 2>kind of it's a lot of perennialist stuff, so there's

1012
00:57:26.960 --> 00:57:30.880
<v Speaker 2>like Sufi texts and arguments and papers in here. But

1013
00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:33.079
<v Speaker 2>there is a really excellent chapter in this book, sort

1014
00:57:33.119 --> 00:57:37.360
<v Speaker 2>of Nosis by Titus Brookhart, and it's about a fifty

1015
00:57:37.400 --> 00:57:42.159
<v Speaker 2>to sixty page chapter critique of the philosophy evolution. That's

1016
00:57:42.199 --> 00:57:45.480
<v Speaker 2>one of the best things I've ever read on on y.

1017
00:57:45.559 --> 00:57:47.480
<v Speaker 2>So I would say my arguments would come from this.

1018
00:57:48.440 --> 00:57:51.960
<v Speaker 2>And there's another book that Wolfgang Smith wrote that I

1019
00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:54.760
<v Speaker 2>read many years ago, Cosmos and Transcendence. I think that's

1020
00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:57.719
<v Speaker 2>a pretty good critique of the kind of the metaphysics

1021
00:57:57.719 --> 00:58:01.239
<v Speaker 2>and the philosophy of our one series. So that's where

1022
00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:05.559
<v Speaker 2>I would be coming from. Axel, what's up? Axel? Ron?

1023
00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:21.719
<v Speaker 2>Excuse me? I'm sorry if he's internet wouldn't connect. I

1024
00:58:21.760 --> 00:58:23.599
<v Speaker 2>was trying to bring him in here. I tried twice,

1025
00:58:23.679 --> 00:58:30.400
<v Speaker 2>so I don't know. Got a mute axe Axel Axel Lottle?

1026
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:30.880
<v Speaker 3>Was that man?

1027
00:58:31.440 --> 00:58:34.239
<v Speaker 6>It's accel On? Yeah, Hey a man, how are you first?

1028
00:58:34.599 --> 00:58:35.760
<v Speaker 2>Good? I was just making a joke.

1029
00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:39.400
<v Speaker 6>Okay, there's no problem with that. I do have a

1030
00:58:39.400 --> 00:58:40.639
<v Speaker 6>pot amount of question for you.

1031
00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:43.440
<v Speaker 17>But first of all, I want to talk about about

1032
00:58:43.440 --> 00:58:44.559
<v Speaker 17>the mark lam in twenty four.

1033
00:58:45.159 --> 00:58:48.280
<v Speaker 3>The way it says, what Mark markulem in twenty four.

1034
00:58:48.320 --> 00:58:48.960
<v Speaker 6>It's in the Bible.

1035
00:58:49.440 --> 00:58:51.280
<v Speaker 2>You're just talking really fast, man, slow down.

1036
00:58:52.400 --> 00:58:54.400
<v Speaker 6>Okay, I'm so sorry. Uh Okay.

1037
00:58:54.400 --> 00:58:56.760
<v Speaker 17>It says, therefore, I tell you whatever you ask for

1038
00:58:56.880 --> 00:58:59.440
<v Speaker 17>in prayer, plus that you're receiving it and then and

1039
00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:00.320
<v Speaker 17>it will be yours.

1040
00:59:00.320 --> 00:59:06.039
<v Speaker 6>Okay. So okay, let's just imagine you're praying. Okay, you're

1041
00:59:06.039 --> 00:59:06.760
<v Speaker 6>praying to God and.

1042
00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:10.960
<v Speaker 17>You ask God uh to make you super comfortable person.

1043
00:59:11.159 --> 00:59:14.719
<v Speaker 6>Okay, what then to make you a comfortable person? To

1044
00:59:14.760 --> 00:59:15.559
<v Speaker 6>make you super.

1045
00:59:15.280 --> 00:59:19.159
<v Speaker 2>Comfortable comfortable person? What does that? What does that mean?

1046
00:59:20.599 --> 00:59:22.760
<v Speaker 6>Everybody? Everybody needs to be everybody needs to.

1047
00:59:22.719 --> 00:59:26.760
<v Speaker 17>Feed comfortable person because of because of the thinking process

1048
00:59:26.800 --> 00:59:27.440
<v Speaker 17>all the time.

1049
00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:32.880
<v Speaker 2>So like, God, give me a giant swede couch and

1050
00:59:32.920 --> 00:59:36.199
<v Speaker 2>give me a bunch of puffy coats, like Kanye like comfortable.

1051
00:59:36.960 --> 00:59:38.239
<v Speaker 2>What are you're talking about?

1052
00:59:38.760 --> 00:59:39.519
<v Speaker 6>It's about the feeling.

1053
00:59:39.519 --> 00:59:41.760
<v Speaker 17>It's about the feeling process that the process of being

1054
00:59:41.840 --> 00:59:42.880
<v Speaker 17>calm and comfortable.

1055
00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:47.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, God, make me comfortable. Go ahead, make me cozy, baby.

1056
00:59:47.559 --> 00:59:48.000
<v Speaker 2>What's up?

1057
00:59:49.320 --> 00:59:51.400
<v Speaker 6>You don't you don't believe God is gonna provide you with.

1058
00:59:51.519 --> 00:59:53.480
<v Speaker 2>I just think that the phraseology is funny.

1059
00:59:53.480 --> 00:59:56.400
<v Speaker 6>Man, go ahead, okay, okay, okay.

1060
00:59:57.159 --> 00:59:59.840
<v Speaker 17>So according to the first that the first that God

1061
00:59:59.920 --> 01:00:02.360
<v Speaker 17>is to provide you with that one. Another question is

1062
01:00:02.519 --> 01:00:04.719
<v Speaker 17>if you if you asked, if you ask him for

1063
01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:07.400
<v Speaker 17>there has to be some thoughts and the thoughts must

1064
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:10.360
<v Speaker 17>be a tit sue to the feelings.

1065
01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:12.440
<v Speaker 6>But if you ask, if you.

1066
01:00:12.400 --> 01:00:14.519
<v Speaker 17>Ask him, how he's going to create that if you haven't,

1067
01:00:14.559 --> 01:00:17.320
<v Speaker 17>even if you haven't even created a thought, and by

1068
01:00:17.360 --> 01:00:19.000
<v Speaker 17>creating a poults you have to communicate with.

1069
01:00:18.880 --> 01:00:21.280
<v Speaker 2>No idea what you're talking about. Man, I'm sorry, I'm lost, dude.

1070
01:00:21.320 --> 01:00:23.599
<v Speaker 2>I just I'm out out to lunch on this, have

1071
01:00:23.639 --> 01:00:26.719
<v Speaker 2>no idea what you're talking about. God made me comfortable.

1072
01:00:28.199 --> 01:00:30.679
<v Speaker 2>It needs to be that Boomer prayer, like the footprints

1073
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:35.159
<v Speaker 2>prayer on the wall, Like God give me no of

1074
01:00:35.159 --> 01:00:38.679
<v Speaker 2>the AA prayer. God give me the serenity to accept

1075
01:00:38.679 --> 01:00:41.639
<v Speaker 2>the things I can't change. God give me the comfort

1076
01:00:42.239 --> 01:00:45.119
<v Speaker 2>to have a mushy couch that I can stretch out

1077
01:00:45.159 --> 01:00:51.679
<v Speaker 2>upon and the feather boa that I can dance for

1078
01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:57.400
<v Speaker 2>my only fans on with my fluffy feather boa. That's

1079
01:00:57.440 --> 01:00:59.360
<v Speaker 2>comfortable and sexy. What's up?

1080
01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:02.119
<v Speaker 6>Man, Hey, Jay, what's up?

1081
01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Trying to get comfortable?

1082
01:01:04.440 --> 01:01:04.639
<v Speaker 3>Man?

1083
01:01:07.480 --> 01:01:10.119
<v Speaker 2>Can I ask you a question about God? Give me

1084
01:01:10.159 --> 01:01:11.079
<v Speaker 2>a bean bag?

1085
01:01:11.880 --> 01:01:12.119
<v Speaker 3>God?

1086
01:01:12.199 --> 01:01:15.320
<v Speaker 2>Give me a mess, a mess being back actually a mess.

1087
01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Being back does not sound comfortable. Give me a burl.

1088
01:01:17.679 --> 01:01:21.239
<v Speaker 2>Give me a burl that being back? Give me a question? Now,

1089
01:01:21.280 --> 01:01:21.719
<v Speaker 2>what's up?

1090
01:01:22.760 --> 01:01:23.079
<v Speaker 6>Okay?

1091
01:01:23.159 --> 01:01:26.559
<v Speaker 18>So, like if you go to Genesis twenty seven twenty eight,

1092
01:01:27.400 --> 01:01:32.320
<v Speaker 18>when Isaac is giving Jacob the blessing, you know, like

1093
01:01:32.760 --> 01:01:35.599
<v Speaker 18>he says, may God give you the doo of heaven.

1094
01:01:35.320 --> 01:01:39.159
<v Speaker 6>And stuff like I you kind of see a parallel with.

1095
01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:44.280
<v Speaker 18>That and Luke twenty two thirty two when like Jesus

1096
01:01:44.639 --> 01:01:49.559
<v Speaker 18>praised upon Peter that his faith may not fail, And

1097
01:01:49.639 --> 01:01:54.679
<v Speaker 18>like I was just wondering, is this completely completely idiotic

1098
01:01:54.840 --> 01:01:56.440
<v Speaker 18>or is there like an actual I.

1099
01:01:56.440 --> 01:01:58.639
<v Speaker 2>Mean, did his face faith? Did his faith fail when

1100
01:01:58.639 --> 01:02:05.320
<v Speaker 2>he gets rebuked by Paul not too long after that? Yeah,

1101
01:02:05.480 --> 01:02:09.039
<v Speaker 2>like I guess, yeah, I would, I would. I mean

1102
01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:12.480
<v Speaker 2>Roman Cavolks love to do this kind of retroactive typology

1103
01:02:12.559 --> 01:02:15.119
<v Speaker 2>where I'm not faulting you, I mean understand what you're

1104
01:02:15.159 --> 01:02:16.760
<v Speaker 2>where you're going with this, where they like go back

1105
01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:19.480
<v Speaker 2>into the Old Testament anything that that's like a typology

1106
01:02:19.559 --> 01:02:22.840
<v Speaker 2>of the bishopric or the patriarchs or the high priest.

1107
01:02:23.239 --> 01:02:26.079
<v Speaker 2>Suddenly that's all transferred to the pope, and I just think, oh,

1108
01:02:26.079 --> 01:02:29.519
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of ridiculous. The promise is a it is

1109
01:02:29.559 --> 01:02:33.840
<v Speaker 2>applicable to the bishopric, but there's no argumentation where that

1110
01:02:33.880 --> 01:02:39.199
<v Speaker 2>suddenly makes, you know, Rome like some kind of super bishop. Yeah, man,

1111
01:02:39.239 --> 01:02:43.559
<v Speaker 2>what's up? I want to get I'm asking God to

1112
01:02:43.599 --> 01:02:46.320
<v Speaker 2>make me comfortable. So I think I need one of

1113
01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:50.199
<v Speaker 2>these puffy yay coats, any one of these Balentiaga puffy

1114
01:02:50.199 --> 01:02:52.239
<v Speaker 2>coats or else I'm not gonna be comfortable. And if

1115
01:02:52.280 --> 01:02:54.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't get it for Christmas, I'm gonna be a atheist.

1116
01:02:55.000 --> 01:02:59.920
<v Speaker 2>If God does not answer my demands for comfort and style,

1117
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:03.320
<v Speaker 2>well then I'm suddenly going to be atheist. What's up?

1118
01:03:03.320 --> 01:03:07.519
<v Speaker 3>Man? Uh? Hi? So I have a question, ma'am?

1119
01:03:07.639 --> 01:03:08.199
<v Speaker 2>Excuse me?

1120
01:03:10.440 --> 01:03:10.599
<v Speaker 3>Is it?

1121
01:03:10.679 --> 01:03:11.119
<v Speaker 6>Sorry?

1122
01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:13.360
<v Speaker 2>No, I'm saying I said, what's up? Man, and you're

1123
01:03:13.360 --> 01:03:15.679
<v Speaker 2>a mam, and so I'm saying, excuse me, ma'am.

1124
01:03:16.079 --> 01:03:20.800
<v Speaker 6>I'm sorry. I don't know. Anyways, I have a question.

1125
01:03:21.960 --> 01:03:24.719
<v Speaker 19>So Phil Helper just came out and said that there

1126
01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:27.800
<v Speaker 19>is a study coming out saying that physicists are changing

1127
01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:29.400
<v Speaker 19>their mind on the Big Bang theory.

1128
01:03:29.480 --> 01:03:32.039
<v Speaker 6>If it is the.

1129
01:03:31.159 --> 01:03:33.960
<v Speaker 19>Origin of the universe, what does this mean for Christianity?

1130
01:03:34.159 --> 01:03:37.119
<v Speaker 19>Is it a net positive as it could disprove the

1131
01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:42.639
<v Speaker 19>ever expanding universe, or does it disprove the something from nothing,

1132
01:03:42.840 --> 01:03:46.360
<v Speaker 19>which would be a negative for Christianity.

1133
01:03:46.880 --> 01:03:49.559
<v Speaker 2>I don't know who Phil Helper is. I'm not deal

1134
01:03:49.599 --> 01:03:52.880
<v Speaker 2>with it. I mean, I don't pay any attention to

1135
01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:56.639
<v Speaker 2>normy science, and like my religious convictions have nothing to

1136
01:03:56.679 --> 01:03:59.679
<v Speaker 2>do with what any science paper says.

1137
01:04:03.199 --> 01:04:06.039
<v Speaker 19>Okay, so you don't think that if say, the Big

1138
01:04:06.039 --> 01:04:10.079
<v Speaker 19>Bang theory were to be disproven, if that would, like

1139
01:04:11.280 --> 01:04:13.039
<v Speaker 19>you don't know if it would be a positive or

1140
01:04:13.079 --> 01:04:14.920
<v Speaker 19>a negative thing for christian I mean, I.

1141
01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:18.119
<v Speaker 2>Think the Big Bang itself is dumb and stupid and

1142
01:04:18.280 --> 01:04:22.599
<v Speaker 2>doesn't make any sense philosophically. So if it was quote disproven,

1143
01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:27.239
<v Speaker 2>that would just be people realizing that their existing atheist

1144
01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:29.920
<v Speaker 2>metaphysics and system is stupid. So yeah, it would be

1145
01:04:29.960 --> 01:04:30.400
<v Speaker 2>a positive.

1146
01:04:31.320 --> 01:04:33.559
<v Speaker 19>Okay, So you just think the Big Bang itself is

1147
01:04:33.719 --> 01:04:34.239
<v Speaker 19>just silly.

1148
01:04:34.719 --> 01:04:42.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like atheist to magic magic theory for atheism. Yeah, okay, yeah,

1149
01:04:42.639 --> 01:04:45.079
<v Speaker 2>interesting questions. I didn't know about any of that, but

1150
01:04:45.559 --> 01:04:48.039
<v Speaker 2>I mean, the thing with like normy science papers is

1151
01:04:48.119 --> 01:04:51.119
<v Speaker 2>like literally every day there's a paper that says the

1152
01:04:51.119 --> 01:04:55.280
<v Speaker 2>opposite of what the papers said the day before, so

1153
01:04:55.639 --> 01:04:57.960
<v Speaker 2>I'll never forget. Like when I was scrolling on Facebook

1154
01:04:58.000 --> 01:05:01.440
<v Speaker 2>one time, literally within like the aim feed next to

1155
01:05:01.480 --> 01:05:06.119
<v Speaker 2>each other was a you know ifing love science black

1156
01:05:06.159 --> 01:05:10.159
<v Speaker 2>holes proven with absolute certitude, and right underneath it was

1157
01:05:10.199 --> 01:05:14.679
<v Speaker 2>another article from like the same website, Science finally debunks.

1158
01:05:14.239 --> 01:05:15.920
<v Speaker 7>The existance of black holes.

1159
01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:19.440
<v Speaker 2>It's like, oh, it's actually all sci fi, Like all

1160
01:05:19.480 --> 01:05:23.800
<v Speaker 2>these people are doing sci fi all right, Josh, I'm

1161
01:05:23.840 --> 01:05:29.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of wearing down now. Icono Matt, twenty dollars, can

1162
01:05:29.480 --> 01:05:31.719
<v Speaker 2>you prove with twenty dollars? Here's the twenty dollars, can

1163
01:05:31.760 --> 01:05:34.719
<v Speaker 2>you prove that you're not a plant from the Funko

1164
01:05:34.760 --> 01:05:39.639
<v Speaker 2>Pop Corporation to sell Funko pops? I cannot prove that. However,

1165
01:05:40.119 --> 01:05:42.480
<v Speaker 2>when I do my live events, well, at least the

1166
01:05:42.519 --> 01:05:45.320
<v Speaker 2>first year we did seven live events or so, every

1167
01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:49.239
<v Speaker 2>live event ended with a Funko Pop getting smashed. So

1168
01:05:49.360 --> 01:05:53.400
<v Speaker 2>you tell me if that's funk Go apologetics or if

1169
01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:59.039
<v Speaker 2>that's destroying, if that's iconoclasm against funk Go pops. You

1170
01:05:59.079 --> 01:06:01.719
<v Speaker 2>tell me Banian do done eight one dollars based on

1171
01:06:01.719 --> 01:06:04.599
<v Speaker 2>your research? Is there any evidence that the US government

1172
01:06:04.719 --> 01:06:06.400
<v Speaker 2>is reverse engineering alien tech?

1173
01:06:07.039 --> 01:06:07.239
<v Speaker 3>No?

1174
01:06:07.360 --> 01:06:09.440
<v Speaker 2>I would side on the side of that being a

1175
01:06:09.440 --> 01:06:14.679
<v Speaker 2>bunch of tarted psy ops. Guy has ten dollars, Greting,

1176
01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:16.559
<v Speaker 2>thank you. What is the single book that you would

1177
01:06:16.559 --> 01:06:20.639
<v Speaker 2>recommend on the errors of reformed theology and Protestism? I

1178
01:06:20.639 --> 01:06:26.639
<v Speaker 2>guess everybody likes Rock and Sand by Father Josiah a

1179
01:06:26.719 --> 01:06:30.800
<v Speaker 2>single best book. I mean, I guess that would be

1180
01:06:30.800 --> 01:06:31.719
<v Speaker 2>the single best book.

1181
01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:32.280
<v Speaker 3>I mean.

1182
01:06:33.800 --> 01:06:37.559
<v Speaker 2>Clark Carlton. His set is also good. Doctor Clark Carlton

1183
01:06:37.599 --> 01:06:44.280
<v Speaker 2>has a good set. H Brosey ten dollars. What's up?

1184
01:06:44.679 --> 01:06:48.320
<v Speaker 2>I am Hazony Armstrong. My phone keeps freezing. It dropped

1185
01:06:48.400 --> 01:06:53.679
<v Speaker 2>me add me back. Okay, I don't see you on here, dude.

1186
01:06:53.679 --> 01:07:00.000
<v Speaker 2>You must have left or did we already go to you?

1187
01:07:02.119 --> 01:07:04.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't see it, man. Thank you for the super

1188
01:07:04.840 --> 01:07:10.960
<v Speaker 2>chat though. Charles Charles in charge of our lives and

1189
01:07:11.199 --> 01:07:13.679
<v Speaker 2>our dreams. I don't even know if that's how it goes.

1190
01:07:13.679 --> 01:07:16.159
<v Speaker 2>I never watched Charles in George. Go ahead, Charles, I'm mute,

1191
01:07:17.679 --> 01:07:20.559
<v Speaker 2>You're in charge. I'm ute, Charles, You're in charge. Charles

1192
01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:25.960
<v Speaker 2>is in charge. I'm mute, Charles in charge?

1193
01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:30.159
<v Speaker 3>Can you hear me now? Yes, sir, I never watched

1194
01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:30.880
<v Speaker 3>that show either.

1195
01:07:32.440 --> 01:07:35.559
<v Speaker 2>What's on your mind? Well, you could still be in charge.

1196
01:07:36.360 --> 01:07:39.079
<v Speaker 20>I was gonna ask you about open theism, and now

1197
01:07:39.119 --> 01:07:44.159
<v Speaker 20>there's a rising army of guys online who are attacking

1198
01:07:44.199 --> 01:07:48.239
<v Speaker 20>Calvinism through that, and I just wondered, what is that

1199
01:07:48.280 --> 01:07:51.280
<v Speaker 20>similar to an ancient heresy that the ecumenical councils have

1200
01:07:51.320 --> 01:07:55.639
<v Speaker 20>already repudiated, or what's your orthodox response to that God

1201
01:07:55.800 --> 01:07:58.880
<v Speaker 20>changes open theism?

1202
01:07:59.559 --> 01:08:04.320
<v Speaker 2>No, I don't think there's any evidence in the ancient

1203
01:08:04.440 --> 01:08:08.440
<v Speaker 2>Church or the Bible or theology to support the idea

1204
01:08:08.519 --> 01:08:12.199
<v Speaker 2>that God changes, because we actually confess in the liturgy

1205
01:08:12.280 --> 01:08:16.960
<v Speaker 2>that he became man yet underwent no change. So Christ

1206
01:08:16.960 --> 01:08:21.960
<v Speaker 2>did not substantially or essentially undergo any change. He changed

1207
01:08:22.000 --> 01:08:24.000
<v Speaker 2>in the sense that he entered into a new motive

1208
01:08:24.039 --> 01:08:26.560
<v Speaker 2>being and that he became man, but he did not

1209
01:08:27.079 --> 01:08:29.840
<v Speaker 2>cease to be God. And in fact, Philippians too, in

1210
01:08:29.920 --> 01:08:35.520
<v Speaker 2>the Kenosis passage, specifically states that he just simply willed

1211
01:08:35.560 --> 01:08:38.800
<v Speaker 2>to not exercise all of his powers when he became man.

1212
01:08:39.199 --> 01:08:41.840
<v Speaker 2>He didn't cease to have those powers or cease to

1213
01:08:41.840 --> 01:08:44.119
<v Speaker 2>be divine or cease to be omnission or anything like that.

1214
01:08:44.199 --> 01:08:48.000
<v Speaker 2>But he didn't do everything he could do when he

1215
01:08:48.039 --> 01:08:50.039
<v Speaker 2>became man, and he didn't even do everything he could

1216
01:08:50.079 --> 01:08:51.680
<v Speaker 2>do when he created the world, because he could have

1217
01:08:51.720 --> 01:08:54.760
<v Speaker 2>created multiple worlds, he could have created a totally different world.

1218
01:08:54.840 --> 01:08:58.079
<v Speaker 2>And so there is potentia in God in the Orthodox position,

1219
01:08:58.560 --> 01:09:00.199
<v Speaker 2>because God has free will, and that's something I think

1220
01:09:00.279 --> 01:09:02.920
<v Speaker 2>very different from the other positions out there, like the

1221
01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:08.079
<v Speaker 2>Roman Catholic position that literally reduce God to pure actuality

1222
01:09:08.119 --> 01:09:13.359
<v Speaker 2>with absolutely no potentiality. So no, I don't think there's

1223
01:09:13.399 --> 01:09:17.000
<v Speaker 2>any basis in scripture vine revelation to believe that God

1224
01:09:17.239 --> 01:09:19.800
<v Speaker 2>has to update his knowledge or that he undergoes change,

1225
01:09:19.880 --> 01:09:23.399
<v Speaker 2>or that he doesn't have omniscients. Typically those debates are

1226
01:09:23.439 --> 01:09:28.680
<v Speaker 2>intended on reconciling you know, free will and divine sovereignty

1227
01:09:28.840 --> 01:09:32.840
<v Speaker 2>with human you know choice, or some way to try

1228
01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:37.560
<v Speaker 2>to mitigate hell or the afterlife or whatever. And I

1229
01:09:37.560 --> 01:09:43.079
<v Speaker 2>think those they're all failed projects because Vine revelation is

1230
01:09:43.159 --> 01:09:45.359
<v Speaker 2>what's preserved in the Orthodox Church, so there can't be

1231
01:09:45.479 --> 01:09:47.600
<v Speaker 2>there's not going to be some new revelation or some

1232
01:09:47.680 --> 01:09:50.640
<v Speaker 2>new theology that emerges. So by default we would reject

1233
01:09:51.039 --> 01:09:54.239
<v Speaker 2>anything that isn't Orthodox, and I mean all the Orthodox

1234
01:09:54.279 --> 01:09:57.079
<v Speaker 2>Church rathers teach that God's omniscient. But we do believe

1235
01:09:57.079 --> 01:09:59.960
<v Speaker 2>that God created a world where there are second causes.

1236
01:10:00.119 --> 01:10:02.399
<v Speaker 2>John Damascus talks about this, and on the Orthodox Faith

1237
01:10:02.399 --> 01:10:05.159
<v Speaker 2>there's ald section where he says there are secondary causes.

1238
01:10:05.439 --> 01:10:08.760
<v Speaker 2>But I think that typically the debate between the Calvinists

1239
01:10:08.760 --> 01:10:12.039
<v Speaker 2>and open theist is framed as if either God is

1240
01:10:12.039 --> 01:10:16.640
<v Speaker 2>the direct decree cause of everything, or he's not and

1241
01:10:16.680 --> 01:10:22.840
<v Speaker 2>therefore no omniscient, and Orthodoxy would avoid both of those positions.

1242
01:10:21.720 --> 01:10:26.319
<v Speaker 20>Right, Yeah, I haven't really heard them address the incarnation,

1243
01:10:26.600 --> 01:10:30.680
<v Speaker 20>but all the scriptures talking about God be pented and

1244
01:10:30.760 --> 01:10:31.119
<v Speaker 20>so on.

1245
01:10:32.119 --> 01:10:34.159
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, I would agree with the argument that

1246
01:10:34.159 --> 01:10:38.560
<v Speaker 2>that's anthropomorphic language and so God is condescending to It's

1247
01:10:38.560 --> 01:10:41.479
<v Speaker 2>the similar if you read doctor Bradshaw's paper that he

1248
01:10:41.520 --> 01:10:46.640
<v Speaker 2>writes it's in the Newer Energies book. I forget the

1249
01:10:46.680 --> 01:10:48.039
<v Speaker 2>name of the paper. I think it's the one on

1250
01:10:48.680 --> 01:10:50.760
<v Speaker 2>essence energy, what kind of distinction. It's the first chapter

1251
01:10:50.800 --> 01:10:56.800
<v Speaker 2>in that book. He talks about the reciprocal relationship through prayer. So,

1252
01:10:56.880 --> 01:11:01.199
<v Speaker 2>for example, if God answers man's prayer, does that mean

1253
01:11:01.239 --> 01:11:03.960
<v Speaker 2>God changes because didn't God already know what you were

1254
01:11:03.960 --> 01:11:07.680
<v Speaker 2>going to pray? Well, the answer to this objection is that, yeah,

1255
01:11:07.720 --> 01:11:12.079
<v Speaker 2>God knew. But God also, because he loves man, condescends

1256
01:11:12.439 --> 01:11:16.920
<v Speaker 2>and wills to interact and respond to men. And this

1257
01:11:16.960 --> 01:11:20.079
<v Speaker 2>is the point that's missed, is that because God has

1258
01:11:20.159 --> 01:11:23.079
<v Speaker 2>the ability to act freely, because he has free will,

1259
01:11:23.920 --> 01:11:30.039
<v Speaker 2>he can choose to reciprocate the relationship with man. So,

1260
01:11:30.119 --> 01:11:32.840
<v Speaker 2>for example, in the Book of Amos, God says, had

1261
01:11:32.880 --> 01:11:35.680
<v Speaker 2>you not prayed, I would have destroyed Israel. Right, But

1262
01:11:35.720 --> 01:11:38.479
<v Speaker 2>he says, you prayed, so I'm gonna withhold my judgment.

1263
01:11:39.199 --> 01:11:44.479
<v Speaker 2>That means then that God willed to have that reciprocal relationship.

1264
01:11:44.520 --> 01:11:46.800
<v Speaker 2>You say, so, he didn't have to do that. He

1265
01:11:46.800 --> 01:11:50.600
<v Speaker 2>didn't have to become incarnate. But he does these things

1266
01:11:50.600 --> 01:11:53.439
<v Speaker 2>because he truly is a loving God and truly does

1267
01:11:53.520 --> 01:12:04.520
<v Speaker 2>love mankind. Bub God, give me the comfort to accept

1268
01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:07.439
<v Speaker 2>the Kanye coat that I do not have. Give me

1269
01:12:07.520 --> 01:12:12.840
<v Speaker 2>the peace of mind to become a suede being bag

1270
01:12:13.399 --> 01:12:15.960
<v Speaker 2>that I am not from nineteen ninety eight. Give me

1271
01:12:16.079 --> 01:12:23.039
<v Speaker 2>the what's up, bub Hi Jay? How you doing good?

1272
01:12:24.560 --> 01:12:24.960
<v Speaker 6>Okay?

1273
01:12:25.119 --> 01:12:25.720
<v Speaker 20>So Eler.

1274
01:12:25.800 --> 01:12:29.079
<v Speaker 21>Today I was debating a Baptist pastor.

1275
01:12:29.119 --> 01:12:30.760
<v Speaker 3>And I will say one second. My first of all

1276
01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:32.600
<v Speaker 3>was assuming he was part of forma theology.

1277
01:12:32.640 --> 01:12:33.039
<v Speaker 2>He wasn't.

1278
01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:34.680
<v Speaker 6>But at one point I.

1279
01:12:34.680 --> 01:12:37.199
<v Speaker 21>Asked him if me and him had a disagreement on

1280
01:12:37.239 --> 01:12:41.039
<v Speaker 21>the interpretation of a verse, I asked him, how could

1281
01:12:41.039 --> 01:12:45.479
<v Speaker 21>you possibly really know who is riot? And he said faith,

1282
01:12:45.640 --> 01:12:47.840
<v Speaker 21>And at least to me, that kind of that answer

1283
01:12:47.960 --> 01:12:49.960
<v Speaker 21>made me kind of it kind of felt lacking.

1284
01:12:52.800 --> 01:12:56.560
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean again, I don't think that the difference

1285
01:12:56.600 --> 01:13:00.640
<v Speaker 2>between it's it's there's two different things going on here.

1286
01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:03.520
<v Speaker 2>One is is there a way to adjudicate or have

1287
01:13:03.600 --> 01:13:07.319
<v Speaker 2>authority to say which position's right? That's normative authority? Did

1288
01:13:07.399 --> 01:13:11.119
<v Speaker 2>Jesus give the church any body of people to bind

1289
01:13:11.279 --> 01:13:14.640
<v Speaker 2>consciousness to an interpretation? And there's a separate question, which

1290
01:13:14.680 --> 01:13:18.479
<v Speaker 2>is individual existential certitude? How do I get certainty? So

1291
01:13:18.680 --> 01:13:21.199
<v Speaker 2>on one level, he's kind of right that we're all

1292
01:13:21.319 --> 01:13:24.119
<v Speaker 2>kind of going to rely on the Holy Spirit leading

1293
01:13:24.159 --> 01:13:27.920
<v Speaker 2>and guiding us directly to no truth. So there's not

1294
01:13:28.039 --> 01:13:30.359
<v Speaker 2>really a problem with that because everybody's in that boat.

1295
01:13:30.560 --> 01:13:32.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if you are a papist, you're going to

1296
01:13:32.600 --> 01:13:34.720
<v Speaker 2>have to trust that the Holy Spirit's leading you to

1297
01:13:34.760 --> 01:13:37.800
<v Speaker 2>interpret the papal documents. If you're Orthodox, you're gonna have

1298
01:13:37.800 --> 01:13:40.199
<v Speaker 2>to trust that the Holy Spirit's leading you to accurately

1299
01:13:40.319 --> 01:13:44.239
<v Speaker 2>understand Orthodox theology and the councils and the church fathers

1300
01:13:44.239 --> 01:13:46.680
<v Speaker 2>and all this whatever. If you're Protestant, you've got to

1301
01:13:46.720 --> 01:13:49.319
<v Speaker 2>trust the Holy Spirit's leading you in interpreting the scriptures.

1302
01:13:49.600 --> 01:13:51.520
<v Speaker 2>So two different things are going on, and I would

1303
01:13:51.520 --> 01:13:55.359
<v Speaker 2>just say that it's one level that's true, But like

1304
01:13:55.680 --> 01:13:59.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, I would reframe the question to say, well,

1305
01:13:59.359 --> 01:14:02.079
<v Speaker 2>don't you think Jesus might have set up some body

1306
01:14:02.119 --> 01:14:06.159
<v Speaker 2>of people to govern the church and to make decisions

1307
01:14:06.199 --> 01:14:09.399
<v Speaker 2>about what the interpretations are. I mean, he says, you know,

1308
01:14:09.479 --> 01:14:12.039
<v Speaker 2>and Acts two and then John sixteen that he would

1309
01:14:12.039 --> 01:14:14.000
<v Speaker 2>provide the church with the spirit to lead it and

1310
01:14:14.039 --> 01:14:17.520
<v Speaker 2>guide it. So did that leave in the early church?

1311
01:14:17.600 --> 01:14:18.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, like what happened?

1312
01:14:21.800 --> 01:14:23.359
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, and then let's see what elles.

1313
01:14:24.800 --> 01:14:27.239
<v Speaker 21>So I also asked him about one save always saved,

1314
01:14:27.239 --> 01:14:28.479
<v Speaker 21>and he said he doesn't really agree with that.

1315
01:14:28.960 --> 01:14:30.560
<v Speaker 6>He says he believes I either.

1316
01:14:30.439 --> 01:14:33.199
<v Speaker 21>Saved or that you were not saved, And at least

1317
01:14:33.199 --> 01:14:35.039
<v Speaker 21>to me, I didn't quite know how to respond to that.

1318
01:14:35.199 --> 01:14:37.159
<v Speaker 3>So what would you really have to say about that?

1319
01:14:37.239 --> 01:14:39.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's just so many passages in the New Testament,

1320
01:14:39.880 --> 01:14:42.640
<v Speaker 2>like Hebrew six or you know, the Parable of the Sower,

1321
01:14:42.840 --> 01:14:46.439
<v Speaker 2>where you have explicit statements of new life springing up

1322
01:14:46.479 --> 01:14:48.560
<v Speaker 2>in the case of the sewer, or in Hebrew six,

1323
01:14:48.560 --> 01:14:51.319
<v Speaker 2>where you have you were, you know, washed in the

1324
01:14:51.439 --> 01:14:53.840
<v Speaker 2>in the in region. You know, the baptism, you were,

1325
01:14:53.920 --> 01:14:56.119
<v Speaker 2>you partake of, you ate of the heavenly gift, and

1326
01:14:56.159 --> 01:14:59.119
<v Speaker 2>so forth, which clearly means that they were partaking of

1327
01:14:59.119 --> 01:15:02.039
<v Speaker 2>grace in some sense. You have, Paul, you know, warning

1328
01:15:02.119 --> 01:15:04.319
<v Speaker 2>the Romans, the Church at Rome, that they can be

1329
01:15:04.439 --> 01:15:09.079
<v Speaker 2>grafted out and rejected. And if there's no real warning,

1330
01:15:09.159 --> 01:15:13.039
<v Speaker 2>then all these warnings really just make no sense. So Matt,

1331
01:15:13.119 --> 01:15:15.840
<v Speaker 2>p we've got a couple more than We're going to

1332
01:15:16.199 --> 01:15:20.239
<v Speaker 2>call it a night, Comfy funk go pop one dollar day.

1333
01:15:20.239 --> 01:15:21.960
<v Speaker 2>I understand the Orthodox if you have being the one

1334
01:15:22.000 --> 01:15:24.760
<v Speaker 2>true Church, the Protestants and Catholics are they can they

1335
01:15:24.800 --> 01:15:29.000
<v Speaker 2>also be saved. Well, we're not told what other people's

1336
01:15:29.319 --> 01:15:33.079
<v Speaker 2>eternal destinies are. So if God has God has means

1337
01:15:33.079 --> 01:15:35.920
<v Speaker 2>by which he can unite people to the mystical body

1338
01:15:35.920 --> 01:15:39.159
<v Speaker 2>of Christ. But I mean, he doesn't tell us how

1339
01:15:39.199 --> 01:15:41.840
<v Speaker 2>that happens. He doesn't say, like, yeah, the thief on

1340
01:15:41.880 --> 01:15:44.720
<v Speaker 2>the cross was a unique odd case, but I wouldn't

1341
01:15:44.760 --> 01:15:47.279
<v Speaker 2>rely on unique odd cases, you know what I mean? Like,

1342
01:15:47.560 --> 01:15:50.560
<v Speaker 2>there's one arc that is the Church. You've seen that

1343
01:15:50.760 --> 01:15:53.359
<v Speaker 2>icon of the of the church as an arc. I mean,

1344
01:15:54.079 --> 01:15:57.800
<v Speaker 2>that's the arc. So you know what chance do you

1345
01:15:57.840 --> 01:16:02.840
<v Speaker 2>stand floating outside the ark? Right? And can God, in

1346
01:16:02.880 --> 01:16:06.720
<v Speaker 2>a way known to him, unite somebody to the arc

1347
01:16:06.800 --> 01:16:10.119
<v Speaker 2>as possible? So and I'm not told the destiny of

1348
01:16:10.279 --> 01:16:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Protestants and Roman Catholics and all that. We're not even

1349
01:16:13.000 --> 01:16:14.640
<v Speaker 2>told the destiny of the people in the church, So

1350
01:16:14.720 --> 01:16:16.279
<v Speaker 2>how am I? I can't senter and judge people on

1351
01:16:16.279 --> 01:16:21.640
<v Speaker 2>an individual basis. But we are told that the public

1352
01:16:21.840 --> 01:16:28.039
<v Speaker 2>confessions that Protestants and Catholics have is false. So in

1353
01:16:28.039 --> 01:16:30.520
<v Speaker 2>that sense we can say that you have a false faith,

1354
01:16:31.159 --> 01:16:33.680
<v Speaker 2>you must come into the church to be saved. So

1355
01:16:34.000 --> 01:16:36.479
<v Speaker 2>if they choose not to, Paul says, what have I

1356
01:16:36.560 --> 01:16:39.119
<v Speaker 2>to do with judging those that are without well emmanual

1357
01:16:39.119 --> 01:16:42.119
<v Speaker 2>ten dollars? Would it help to get Roman Catholics to

1358
01:16:42.159 --> 01:16:46.479
<v Speaker 2>point to an infallible dogma, then get them to compare

1359
01:16:46.600 --> 01:16:50.439
<v Speaker 2>their arbitrary standards to determine when it happens and when

1360
01:16:50.479 --> 01:16:52.680
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't have it. Yes, absolutely, I have done that

1361
01:16:52.720 --> 01:16:55.720
<v Speaker 2>many times. For example, what does X have to do?

1362
01:16:56.880 --> 01:16:59.840
<v Speaker 2>What does the infallible document X have that bat A

1363
01:17:00.159 --> 01:17:04.920
<v Speaker 2>two doesn't have If Vatican two is quote not infallible. Yeah,

1364
01:17:04.960 --> 01:17:07.960
<v Speaker 2>I think it is. Uh that always shifts over into

1365
01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:10.680
<v Speaker 2>the epistemology domain, which I'm happy to do. I'd love

1366
01:17:10.720 --> 01:17:14.039
<v Speaker 2>to do that. But I mean, I'm not trying to

1367
01:17:14.039 --> 01:17:16.079
<v Speaker 2>be rude, but like when we start going to apistemology,

1368
01:17:16.199 --> 01:17:18.880
<v Speaker 2>the Romachalics are out, they don't know, they're out to lunch.

1369
01:17:19.039 --> 01:17:21.840
<v Speaker 2>So but maybe it is time to just go straight

1370
01:17:21.920 --> 01:17:26.760
<v Speaker 2>up to like look by the way again. If Romacantholicism

1371
01:17:26.880 --> 01:17:30.119
<v Speaker 2>is the case, why doesn't the papacy just give us

1372
01:17:30.199 --> 01:17:33.600
<v Speaker 2>an ex cathedral list of the ex cathedral doctrines. That

1373
01:17:33.600 --> 01:17:36.199
<v Speaker 2>would make it so much clearer, It make everything so easy.

1374
01:17:36.680 --> 01:17:39.600
<v Speaker 2>Why don't they just do that? I mean, it's not Denzinger.

1375
01:17:39.680 --> 01:17:42.800
<v Speaker 2>Denzinger is not an ex cathedral book. That's just a

1376
01:17:42.880 --> 01:17:47.920
<v Speaker 2>book by some priest who collected together dogmatic statements which

1377
01:17:48.000 --> 01:17:51.359
<v Speaker 2>Rome cites. The Vatican cites Denzinger, but Denzinger is not

1378
01:17:51.399 --> 01:17:56.479
<v Speaker 2>He's just some priests, he's not infallible. But for that

1379
01:17:56.640 --> 01:17:59.439
<v Speaker 2>system to work, if it was consistent, they would give

1380
01:17:59.520 --> 01:18:02.640
<v Speaker 2>us and fallible list of the infallible dogmas, and everything

1381
01:18:02.640 --> 01:18:05.439
<v Speaker 2>would supposedly be clearer, wouldn't it. I mean, you still

1382
01:18:05.439 --> 01:18:07.039
<v Speaker 2>have people debating, but it would least be a little

1383
01:18:07.039 --> 01:18:10.600
<v Speaker 2>bit clearer. Why don't they just do that instead? What

1384
01:18:10.640 --> 01:18:15.319
<v Speaker 2>you get is, here's three general criteria of levels of

1385
01:18:15.359 --> 01:18:17.199
<v Speaker 2>dogma and good luck with that.

1386
01:18:17.720 --> 01:18:23.159
<v Speaker 3>Good luck? Go ahead, Jay, can you hear me?

1387
01:18:23.399 --> 01:18:23.680
<v Speaker 2>Yep?

1388
01:18:24.680 --> 01:18:26.439
<v Speaker 6>Okay, Jay, this is Matt.

1389
01:18:26.319 --> 01:18:27.920
<v Speaker 22>And first of all, I wanted to tell you I

1390
01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:31.920
<v Speaker 22>find you fascinating because of your journey into Orthodoxy from Calvini.

1391
01:18:31.960 --> 01:18:34.479
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I remember you've called in before. I remember how

1392
01:18:34.520 --> 01:18:34.840
<v Speaker 2>you doing?

1393
01:18:35.079 --> 01:18:40.359
<v Speaker 22>Okay, Well, anyway, I wanted to do the fellow, the

1394
01:18:40.439 --> 01:18:43.199
<v Speaker 22>Roman Catholic that you were just talking to. And this

1395
01:18:43.279 --> 01:18:45.960
<v Speaker 22>is something that hasn't changed. I've been debating them for

1396
01:18:45.960 --> 01:18:49.560
<v Speaker 22>fifty years, but they're all the same in that regard.

1397
01:18:49.600 --> 01:18:55.000
<v Speaker 22>It's just meant justify the Pope's position and Catholicism.

1398
01:18:54.600 --> 01:18:57.479
<v Speaker 2>You cut out it's what in their claims.

1399
01:18:57.880 --> 01:19:01.439
<v Speaker 3>It's mental manipulation. It was like back and forth.

1400
01:19:01.840 --> 01:19:04.960
<v Speaker 22>Now if they can't see when you have a pope

1401
01:19:05.000 --> 01:19:07.520
<v Speaker 22>France is saying that Hindu has worshiped the same God

1402
01:19:07.560 --> 01:19:10.640
<v Speaker 22>in Jews and Muslims. That that's outright apostle to see

1403
01:19:10.680 --> 01:19:13.880
<v Speaker 22>it in your face, I don't know what to say

1404
01:19:13.920 --> 01:19:15.520
<v Speaker 22>at that point. Now, this has been going on for

1405
01:19:15.560 --> 01:19:18.600
<v Speaker 22>some years with ecuminism and that sort of thing.

1406
01:19:19.800 --> 01:19:20.800
<v Speaker 3>Having said that.

1407
01:19:21.119 --> 01:19:23.399
<v Speaker 22>They're never at peace because and I talked to you

1408
01:19:23.439 --> 01:19:25.760
<v Speaker 22>about and I want to mention this a bit further

1409
01:19:26.159 --> 01:19:31.079
<v Speaker 22>asceticism and academia, but if you go into a full

1410
01:19:31.079 --> 01:19:36.399
<v Speaker 22>blown academia, you end up come unto me.

1411
01:19:37.319 --> 01:19:38.800
<v Speaker 3>My yoak is easy and.

1412
01:19:38.680 --> 01:19:39.640
<v Speaker 22>My burden is light.

1413
01:19:40.319 --> 01:19:43.119
<v Speaker 3>Their burden is not light, and their yolk is not easy.

1414
01:19:43.279 --> 01:19:45.720
<v Speaker 22>Right now, the Orthodox Church is the Church of Christ

1415
01:19:45.760 --> 01:19:48.359
<v Speaker 22>with the body of Christ. So they're in a place

1416
01:19:48.399 --> 01:19:50.600
<v Speaker 22>that's not the body of Christ, and it's right in

1417
01:19:50.640 --> 01:19:55.680
<v Speaker 22>their face, and for some reason it's very difficult for

1418
01:19:55.720 --> 01:19:57.239
<v Speaker 22>them to get out of it. The only thing I

1419
01:19:57.239 --> 01:20:00.760
<v Speaker 22>could say is it's a pernicious heresy is saying A says,

1420
01:20:00.760 --> 01:20:03.520
<v Speaker 22>and they're blinded by that pernicious heresy.

1421
01:20:04.279 --> 01:20:06.800
<v Speaker 3>Having said that, Jame, I have a question.

1422
01:20:06.600 --> 01:20:08.800
<v Speaker 22>For you, because it bothered me for some years, and

1423
01:20:09.039 --> 01:20:11.359
<v Speaker 22>you've been through the Ringers. So you're going to understand

1424
01:20:11.399 --> 01:20:13.439
<v Speaker 22>what I'm talking about coming from academia.

1425
01:20:13.920 --> 01:20:15.840
<v Speaker 3>What a new term.

1426
01:20:16.119 --> 01:20:21.479
<v Speaker 22>Something that we frequently hear these days is an Orthodox person.

1427
01:20:21.880 --> 01:20:24.520
<v Speaker 3>Even preachs and bishops, they'll.

1428
01:20:24.359 --> 01:20:30.520
<v Speaker 22>Refer to heretics, Mormons, Jehovah witnessed, Catholics, Protestants. They'll say, well,

1429
01:20:30.720 --> 01:20:35.119
<v Speaker 22>because they're learning it, they're er addition, they'll say the

1430
01:20:35.199 --> 01:20:40.000
<v Speaker 22>Roman Catholic theologian. I've even heard the Mormon theologian. This

1431
01:20:40.039 --> 01:20:43.279
<v Speaker 22>is so far from the ethos of the church fathers

1432
01:20:43.680 --> 01:20:47.800
<v Speaker 22>who came out explicitly and call them heretics, saying aaronais

1433
01:20:47.840 --> 01:20:50.399
<v Speaker 22>didn't say against all the Gnostic groups. By the way,

1434
01:20:50.479 --> 01:20:53.560
<v Speaker 22>I've come to the conclusion they were Roman Catholicism is

1435
01:20:53.680 --> 01:20:58.319
<v Speaker 22>narcissism with all of their secrets, and it's just another

1436
01:20:58.399 --> 01:21:03.039
<v Speaker 22>passion of intrigue can just like go constantly in some direction.

1437
01:21:03.399 --> 01:21:04.720
<v Speaker 3>So my question too, is this.

1438
01:21:06.399 --> 01:21:09.359
<v Speaker 22>That came into the Orthodox Church, the idea that these

1439
01:21:09.399 --> 01:21:14.000
<v Speaker 22>heretical groups are. You know, somebody speaks and they're considered

1440
01:21:14.000 --> 01:21:16.920
<v Speaker 22>to be a theologian. My question too, is do you

1441
01:21:16.920 --> 01:21:18.279
<v Speaker 22>find it to be problematic?

1442
01:21:20.279 --> 01:21:22.279
<v Speaker 2>I see your point. I mean, I think it's just

1443
01:21:22.319 --> 01:21:27.840
<v Speaker 2>more of a colloquial usage. I mean, I know that

1444
01:21:27.880 --> 01:21:30.159
<v Speaker 2>in our sense, we would say a theologian is, you know,

1445
01:21:30.239 --> 01:21:32.399
<v Speaker 2>one who praise and one who has Orthodox faith and

1446
01:21:32.439 --> 01:21:34.760
<v Speaker 2>all that. So I think we're really just kind of

1447
01:21:34.800 --> 01:21:38.399
<v Speaker 2>interacting with and talking to people in the world and

1448
01:21:38.439 --> 01:21:43.279
<v Speaker 2>outside the church that have this terminology. So even though

1449
01:21:43.319 --> 01:21:46.840
<v Speaker 2>it's not strictly correct, I don't think everybody's using it

1450
01:21:46.920 --> 01:21:49.800
<v Speaker 2>in an inappropriate way intentionally.

1451
01:21:50.039 --> 01:21:53.840
<v Speaker 22>But I see your point, okay, because so because I

1452
01:21:53.880 --> 01:21:56.760
<v Speaker 22>see it as part of ecuminism, be nice. So you

1453
01:21:56.840 --> 01:22:01.560
<v Speaker 22>have to approach them in a nice way. And I

1454
01:22:01.600 --> 01:22:06.279
<v Speaker 22>can just tell you monks have known and bishops even

1455
01:22:07.520 --> 01:22:08.520
<v Speaker 22>that are ascetics.

1456
01:22:08.800 --> 01:22:10.520
<v Speaker 3>They're not into that nice thing. They're more or.

1457
01:22:10.600 --> 01:22:13.279
<v Speaker 6>Less straightened out. Yeah, that's for your sake.

1458
01:22:13.520 --> 01:22:17.560
<v Speaker 22>So I think it's detrimental in that regard.

1459
01:22:18.039 --> 01:22:19.520
<v Speaker 3>Can you explain to me, because you were a.

1460
01:22:19.439 --> 01:22:25.520
<v Speaker 22>Trade cat, how how the apostlesia Muslims are the same

1461
01:22:26.279 --> 01:22:30.399
<v Speaker 22>blah blah blah, How can't they see that?

1462
01:22:30.479 --> 01:22:30.720
<v Speaker 3>Jake?

1463
01:22:31.840 --> 01:22:35.640
<v Speaker 2>Well, for me as a trad cat, that's exactly the

1464
01:22:35.960 --> 01:22:38.600
<v Speaker 2>thing that led me to more and more kind of

1465
01:22:38.680 --> 01:22:43.399
<v Speaker 2>sparse fringe traditionalism was that in two thousand and three

1466
01:22:43.439 --> 01:22:48.079
<v Speaker 2>when I became Catholic, I kind of thought and assumed

1467
01:22:48.079 --> 01:22:50.359
<v Speaker 2>that the Romancolic Church would be kind of like what

1468
01:22:50.439 --> 01:22:52.800
<v Speaker 2>I read in the Church Fathers. And then when you

1469
01:22:52.840 --> 01:22:55.399
<v Speaker 2>go to the actual Romancolic churches and it's really divorced

1470
01:22:55.439 --> 01:22:58.079
<v Speaker 2>from that, and it's like, you know, just guitar masses

1471
01:22:58.239 --> 01:23:02.479
<v Speaker 2>and skittle stuff and hip hop mass and just weird

1472
01:23:02.520 --> 01:23:05.319
<v Speaker 2>stuff going on. You see, it's divorced, and then you think, well,

1473
01:23:05.319 --> 01:23:07.199
<v Speaker 2>now what am I going to do? And so for

1474
01:23:07.319 --> 01:23:09.079
<v Speaker 2>most people, they just hear about, oh, well, you know,

1475
01:23:09.279 --> 01:23:11.239
<v Speaker 2>maybe you want maybe you should check out the traditional

1476
01:23:11.279 --> 01:23:14.079
<v Speaker 2>Latin Mass. That's where the real Catholic stuff is preserved,

1477
01:23:14.920 --> 01:23:16.720
<v Speaker 2>and so you go to that. And the thing with

1478
01:23:16.800 --> 01:23:20.119
<v Speaker 2>most traditional Catholics and Catholics in general is that they

1479
01:23:20.119 --> 01:23:23.479
<v Speaker 2>don't read the documents. They don't read Vatican two, they

1480
01:23:23.479 --> 01:23:27.720
<v Speaker 2>don't read Vatican One. I've talked to Roman Catholics all

1481
01:23:27.720 --> 01:23:30.640
<v Speaker 2>the time. I've been talking to him since since the nineties,

1482
01:23:31.640 --> 01:23:37.079
<v Speaker 2>and I would say that probably ninety eight percent of

1483
01:23:37.199 --> 01:23:40.399
<v Speaker 2>Roman Catholics have never read Vatican One. I don't mean

1484
01:23:40.439 --> 01:23:43.000
<v Speaker 2>a summary of it, I mean the actual fifteen pages

1485
01:23:43.000 --> 01:23:46.000
<v Speaker 2>printed out a Vatican One. So you know, they don't

1486
01:23:46.239 --> 01:23:49.199
<v Speaker 2>really know what their dogmas and doctrines say. So I

1487
01:23:49.239 --> 01:23:52.479
<v Speaker 2>think what happens is they just kind of latch onto

1488
01:23:52.720 --> 01:23:57.159
<v Speaker 2>whatever they hear from other people, pop apologists, the internet, YouTube,

1489
01:23:57.520 --> 01:24:00.960
<v Speaker 2>They latch onto what they think might be the best explanation.

1490
01:24:01.479 --> 01:24:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Me being a book nerd, I was not satisfied with that,

1491
01:24:04.800 --> 01:24:06.760
<v Speaker 2>So I was always reading the next book, this book,

1492
01:24:06.800 --> 01:24:10.039
<v Speaker 2>that book. Still got all these all my trad Catholic

1493
01:24:10.039 --> 01:24:12.359
<v Speaker 2>books up there on that shelf, and I just found

1494
01:24:12.359 --> 01:24:14.680
<v Speaker 2>that after so many years of trying to make it work,

1495
01:24:14.760 --> 01:24:16.600
<v Speaker 2>it just kind of I just kind of gave up

1496
01:24:16.640 --> 01:24:20.680
<v Speaker 2>and collapsed on trying to make Vatican one, Vatican two

1497
01:24:20.800 --> 01:24:23.399
<v Speaker 2>and all that, and trad cat stuff makes sense because clearly,

1498
01:24:24.520 --> 01:24:27.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think eventually it just dawns on trad cats.

1499
01:24:27.800 --> 01:24:29.920
<v Speaker 2>The ones that leave, they really they really realize, like

1500
01:24:29.960 --> 01:24:32.439
<v Speaker 2>why am I defending this guy in this institution that

1501
01:24:32.479 --> 01:24:36.600
<v Speaker 2>hates me? And I think once you realize that Francis,

1502
01:24:36.840 --> 01:24:39.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, if you're a traditional Catholic and you want

1503
01:24:39.079 --> 01:24:42.279
<v Speaker 2>to uphold you know, morals and all this kind of stuff,

1504
01:24:42.319 --> 01:24:45.119
<v Speaker 2>Francis doesn't care about you. Francis is shutting down your

1505
01:24:45.119 --> 01:24:49.760
<v Speaker 2>beloved Latin Mass like he hates you. And eventually you

1506
01:24:49.840 --> 01:24:53.840
<v Speaker 2>come to just decide I'm not going to support and

1507
01:24:53.960 --> 01:24:57.359
<v Speaker 2>try to convince people of this geopolitical tool in another

1508
01:24:57.359 --> 01:24:58.159
<v Speaker 2>country that hates me.

1509
01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:03.159
<v Speaker 22>Okay, because I noticed something else that God forgive me.

1510
01:25:03.199 --> 01:25:05.920
<v Speaker 22>But I was listening to some trad cat and he

1511
01:25:06.079 --> 01:25:08.479
<v Speaker 22>was talking about Francis.

1512
01:25:08.880 --> 01:25:10.279
<v Speaker 3>I guess maybe.

1513
01:25:10.119 --> 01:25:14.159
<v Speaker 22>It was somebody prayer Benedict, but that you you.

1514
01:25:14.039 --> 01:25:14.760
<v Speaker 3>Can no longer.

1515
01:25:15.880 --> 01:25:19.319
<v Speaker 22>You can't kneel when you're receiving the eucharis, and you

1516
01:25:19.359 --> 01:25:21.119
<v Speaker 22>can't receive it in your hand, you have to take

1517
01:25:21.119 --> 01:25:23.600
<v Speaker 22>it into the mouth. And how they are it out currently?

1518
01:25:24.039 --> 01:25:27.039
<v Speaker 22>When they do that, they're like children, you know, we're

1519
01:25:27.079 --> 01:25:27.960
<v Speaker 22>so childish.

1520
01:25:28.199 --> 01:25:30.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I forgot Francis saying. I remember him saying something

1521
01:25:30.479 --> 01:25:31.960
<v Speaker 2>about that, that it's childlife.

1522
01:25:32.359 --> 01:25:34.840
<v Speaker 22>So this guy goes on to pontificate about this, and

1523
01:25:34.880 --> 01:25:37.399
<v Speaker 22>I'm like, how can you say that when you don't

1524
01:25:37.439 --> 01:25:40.520
<v Speaker 22>even commune little children, which is like written, you know,

1525
01:25:40.880 --> 01:25:43.520
<v Speaker 22>right in front of you, suffer the little children to

1526
01:25:43.520 --> 01:25:44.800
<v Speaker 22>come on to me for such.

1527
01:25:44.720 --> 01:25:45.680
<v Speaker 3>As the kingdom of head.

1528
01:25:46.199 --> 01:25:50.319
<v Speaker 22>So he yeah, So he inverts the whole thing into

1529
01:25:50.359 --> 01:25:53.279
<v Speaker 22>his own personal where where does it come from?

1530
01:25:53.279 --> 01:25:57.159
<v Speaker 3>It? So it was like some kind of personal virtue exaltation.

1531
01:25:57.359 --> 01:25:58.000
<v Speaker 3>I guess.

1532
01:25:59.239 --> 01:26:02.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, great point. Matt totally agree. I think I'm just

1533
01:26:02.359 --> 01:26:06.880
<v Speaker 2>Pato communion itself, if you really think about it, is

1534
01:26:07.000 --> 01:26:14.079
<v Speaker 2>almost enough to refute Romanatholicism, because the Latin Church communed

1535
01:26:14.119 --> 01:26:19.199
<v Speaker 2>infants for all those centuries. And it's not accidental that

1536
01:26:19.560 --> 01:26:24.800
<v Speaker 2>the departure of Pato communion happens precisely when the phillyoqua

1537
01:26:24.920 --> 01:26:28.720
<v Speaker 2>comes in and the temporal claims of the Roman bishop

1538
01:26:28.760 --> 01:26:35.560
<v Speaker 2>begin to exaggerate. So I think there's definitely a connection

1539
01:26:35.640 --> 01:26:38.800
<v Speaker 2>between those things. All right, Sam Hide messaged me. I

1540
01:26:38.840 --> 01:26:42.279
<v Speaker 2>gotta call Sam Hi. We're talking about whether or not

1541
01:26:42.319 --> 01:26:44.960
<v Speaker 2>I will go work with him on a TV show,

1542
01:26:45.039 --> 01:26:46.439
<v Speaker 2>So I gotta let you guys go. It's been a

1543
01:26:46.439 --> 01:26:47.840
<v Speaker 2>great time tonight. I want to remind you to head

1544
01:26:47.840 --> 01:26:49.680
<v Speaker 2>on over to Chalk dot com. HQ dot com. That

1545
01:26:49.760 --> 01:26:52.239
<v Speaker 2>is the show sponsor. They are our sponsor. They're the

1546
01:26:52.279 --> 01:26:54.640
<v Speaker 2>best in supplementation. If you head on over to chalk

1547
01:26:54.640 --> 01:26:56.000
<v Speaker 2>dot com right now and use a prom QoE J

1548
01:26:56.279 --> 01:26:58.600
<v Speaker 2>forty four Life, that's jy four four Life, you will

1549
01:26:58.600 --> 01:27:00.720
<v Speaker 2>get forty four percent off all of these great products,

1550
01:27:01.039 --> 01:27:05.279
<v Speaker 2>particularly the Male Performance Stack, which is about working out,

1551
01:27:05.880 --> 01:27:09.840
<v Speaker 2>so don't have a crazy, dirty mind. This is about

1552
01:27:09.880 --> 01:27:13.479
<v Speaker 2>going to the gym, getting fit, upping your game, uping

1553
01:27:13.479 --> 01:27:16.359
<v Speaker 2>your toxic masculinity by getting these products like the Action

1554
01:27:16.399 --> 01:27:18.560
<v Speaker 2>two point zero, the Chalk dot Com Assume Me at

1555
01:27:18.640 --> 01:27:24.960
<v Speaker 2>chalk dot com, the Talk Got a Lee, the Chad Mode.

1556
01:27:25.079 --> 01:27:27.680
<v Speaker 2>Great products over there. It's not just produced though. If

1557
01:27:27.800 --> 01:27:30.279
<v Speaker 2>you are part of the ten percent of my female audience,

1558
01:27:31.159 --> 01:27:34.640
<v Speaker 2>the Female Vitality Stack is also available to you over there.

1559
01:27:34.960 --> 01:27:37.279
<v Speaker 2>The j A y forty four l I f E

1560
01:27:37.560 --> 01:27:40.800
<v Speaker 2>promo code is a recurring subscription code, but you can

1561
01:27:42.119 --> 01:27:44.279
<v Speaker 2>cancel at any time if you don't like it. If

1562
01:27:44.279 --> 01:27:45.880
<v Speaker 2>you want to just test it out, I would say

1563
01:27:45.960 --> 01:27:48.720
<v Speaker 2>use the promo code JAY forty, that's J forty to

1564
01:27:48.760 --> 01:27:51.439
<v Speaker 2>get forty percent off all those great products over at

1565
01:27:51.600 --> 01:27:55.640
<v Speaker 2>chalk dot com, c hoq dot com. I also still

1566
01:27:55.640 --> 01:27:59.079
<v Speaker 2>have my philosophy course available in the chat through Richard Grove.

1567
01:27:59.279 --> 01:28:02.520
<v Speaker 2>If you want to get access to my philosophy course,

1568
01:28:03.600 --> 01:28:08.000
<v Speaker 2>use the autonomy Agora marketplace link. Ryan G. I hope

1569
01:28:08.000 --> 01:28:09.239
<v Speaker 2>you're not mad. I had a good I had a

1570
01:28:09.239 --> 01:28:10.680
<v Speaker 2>good time talking with you. It's just I had I

1571
01:28:10.720 --> 01:28:13.399
<v Speaker 2>wanted to move on, so I'm sorry if he's mad,

1572
01:28:13.600 --> 01:28:16.359
<v Speaker 2>But we're just gonna have we had to move.

1573
01:28:16.239 --> 01:28:16.560
<v Speaker 3>On to.

1574
01:28:18.079 --> 01:28:19.800
<v Speaker 2>Before it got more and more sour. I don't wanted

1575
01:28:19.840 --> 01:28:21.960
<v Speaker 2>to go more sour. So I kind of Matt three dollars,

1576
01:28:22.000 --> 01:28:24.680
<v Speaker 2>are you going to go on Rouse Lawn show? Rouselan said,

1577
01:28:24.680 --> 01:28:27.760
<v Speaker 2>if I'm in California, I can go on his show,

1578
01:28:27.840 --> 01:28:31.079
<v Speaker 2>So it's not like flying me out or whatever, which

1579
01:28:31.119 --> 01:28:33.600
<v Speaker 2>is fine. I'm not expecting him to, but uh, you know,

1580
01:28:33.640 --> 01:28:35.880
<v Speaker 2>I told him something like, hey, we come out to

1581
01:28:36.000 --> 01:28:39.239
<v Speaker 2>La you know, twice a year for events and whatever,

1582
01:28:40.399 --> 01:28:42.279
<v Speaker 2>and he said, well, you're welcome to come on and

1583
01:28:42.319 --> 01:28:44.359
<v Speaker 2>we can have a discussion. So yeah, I mean I'm

1584
01:28:44.399 --> 01:28:46.760
<v Speaker 2>the next time we end up out in the La

1585
01:28:46.880 --> 01:28:50.439
<v Speaker 2>San Diego area. Yeah, I mean, unless he's changed his

1586
01:28:50.479 --> 01:28:51.920
<v Speaker 2>mind he doesn't want me on there, I don't know,

1587
01:28:52.000 --> 01:28:55.279
<v Speaker 2>but he said the invite is there. He has not

1588
01:28:55.439 --> 01:29:00.279
<v Speaker 2>yet taken back that invite. So but there's no like

1589
01:29:00.359 --> 01:29:02.359
<v Speaker 2>set date, and I don't know when I'll be back

1590
01:29:02.399 --> 01:29:06.680
<v Speaker 2>in California. If if the Sam Hyde thing works out,

1591
01:29:08.560 --> 01:29:11.600
<v Speaker 2>things will change. I mean I will be doing that

1592
01:29:11.680 --> 01:29:13.760
<v Speaker 2>full time. I mean, I'll still be doing live streams.

1593
01:29:13.800 --> 01:29:15.359
<v Speaker 2>I'll still you know, talk to you guys and do

1594
01:29:15.439 --> 01:29:19.640
<v Speaker 2>what I do Uh, it'll just probably be less live streams.

1595
01:29:19.640 --> 01:29:22.119
<v Speaker 2>I won't be live streaming every night. That would be

1596
01:29:22.159 --> 01:29:26.319
<v Speaker 2>like a full time job doing the a daily type

1597
01:29:26.359 --> 01:29:28.239
<v Speaker 2>of show with Sam Hid, the right wing daily show,

1598
01:29:29.640 --> 01:29:33.880
<v Speaker 2>so that that will be most of my daytime. But

1599
01:29:36.760 --> 01:29:39.079
<v Speaker 2>that sounds like a lot of fun. I mean, I'm

1600
01:29:39.119 --> 01:29:43.039
<v Speaker 2>really really want you know, we're weighing it. You know,

1601
01:29:43.079 --> 01:29:46.359
<v Speaker 2>we'd have to move you know up there, you know,

1602
01:29:46.399 --> 01:29:49.079
<v Speaker 2>which is not a problem. It's it's doable. It's just

1603
01:29:49.359 --> 01:29:51.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's a it's a big kind of life decision,

1604
01:29:51.439 --> 01:29:54.359
<v Speaker 2>so we got to figure out what we want to

1605
01:29:54.399 --> 01:29:57.159
<v Speaker 2>do here. I'm a calling him here in a minute

1606
01:29:57.199 --> 01:30:00.680
<v Speaker 2>to talk about the specifics. So you guys pray for

1607
01:30:00.760 --> 01:30:02.720
<v Speaker 2>me on that. It's a big, big life decision. So

1608
01:30:03.920 --> 01:30:05.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, it could be it could be blow up

1609
01:30:05.479 --> 01:30:08.560
<v Speaker 2>and be you know, a big thing, and I'd love

1610
01:30:08.600 --> 01:30:12.000
<v Speaker 2>to be there kind of on the ground floor of that.

1611
01:30:14.760 --> 01:30:17.880
<v Speaker 2>What do you guys think? I mean, it would not

1612
01:30:18.000 --> 01:30:23.640
<v Speaker 2>be conspiracy related. It's going to be news, politics related,

1613
01:30:24.319 --> 01:30:31.000
<v Speaker 2>funny stuff. So it would be different, you see what

1614
01:30:31.039 --> 01:30:32.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm you see what I'm getting at, Like, my life

1615
01:30:32.880 --> 01:30:36.239
<v Speaker 2>would be different, not in a bad way, it would

1616
01:30:36.279 --> 01:30:40.960
<v Speaker 2>just be a different pathway, so to speak. So you know,

1617
01:30:40.960 --> 01:30:43.880
<v Speaker 2>we want to we want to make sure we discuss

1618
01:30:43.920 --> 01:30:45.600
<v Speaker 2>all the p's in the queues and make sure it's

1619
01:30:45.640 --> 01:30:48.319
<v Speaker 2>the right fit for for him and for what I

1620
01:30:48.359 --> 01:30:51.000
<v Speaker 2>do and so forth. So uh, anyway, I've got to

1621
01:30:51.039 --> 01:30:52.640
<v Speaker 2>call him back and see what's going on and what

1622
01:30:52.600 --> 01:30:56.279
<v Speaker 2>we want to do. Otherwise, everybody, have a good night.

1623
01:30:56.359 --> 01:31:00.399
<v Speaker 2>Appreciate you guys, and I think that's it. Every Oh,

1624
01:31:00.880 --> 01:31:06.760
<v Speaker 2>check out the the alien UFO deception thing that I

1625
01:31:06.800 --> 01:31:10.720
<v Speaker 2>did for the Friday show. So that was all up

1626
01:31:10.760 --> 01:31:12.680
<v Speaker 2>in the air. So I'm still for the time being

1627
01:31:13.479 --> 01:31:16.880
<v Speaker 2>fourth hour at Lord Voldemort. So we didn't know if

1628
01:31:16.920 --> 01:31:20.239
<v Speaker 2>that was going going away. We had almost one hundred

1629
01:31:20.279 --> 01:31:22.039
<v Speaker 2>and sixty three thousand views on this, so go check

1630
01:31:22.079 --> 01:31:26.000
<v Speaker 2>this out right here. Red alert UFO alien deception lay

1631
01:31:26.199 --> 01:31:29.000
<v Speaker 2>rolling out. This is in relation to all the drones,

1632
01:31:29.039 --> 01:31:33.399
<v Speaker 2>which are obviously drones. Literally a drone crashes, it's clearly

1633
01:31:33.399 --> 01:31:34.279
<v Speaker 2>a drone, and people.

1634
01:31:34.119 --> 01:31:36.199
<v Speaker 3>Are like aliens, dude, it's aliens.

1635
01:31:37.119 --> 01:31:40.119
<v Speaker 2>Well, I give my forty five minute, fifty minute breakdown

1636
01:31:40.199 --> 01:31:44.800
<v Speaker 2>of the absurdity of the alien nonsense surrounding this issue

1637
01:31:45.600 --> 01:31:49.520
<v Speaker 2>right here. Shout out to Damien Slash always coming up

1638
01:31:49.560 --> 01:31:55.279
<v Speaker 2>with these funny videos. Anyway, Oh and forgot. If you're

1639
01:31:55.319 --> 01:31:59.239
<v Speaker 2>in the Florida area January nineteenth, we'll be at this

1640
01:31:59.720 --> 01:32:03.960
<v Speaker 2>movie convention here Tampa Bay Screams. This is kind of

1641
01:32:03.960 --> 01:32:06.560
<v Speaker 2>like the conventions that Jamie Kennedy goes to, like these

1642
01:32:06.600 --> 01:32:10.680
<v Speaker 2>scream conventions. This one, though, is I will be speaking

1643
01:32:11.199 --> 01:32:14.079
<v Speaker 2>that evening at a dinner event. So if you want

1644
01:32:14.119 --> 01:32:17.479
<v Speaker 2>to get tickets to Dark Secrets of Horror Films, I

1645
01:32:17.520 --> 01:32:19.720
<v Speaker 2>will be speaking and we'll be doing a dinner. The

1646
01:32:19.760 --> 01:32:23.640
<v Speaker 2>first thirty tickets get a free Esotery Hollywood copy. So

1647
01:32:23.760 --> 01:32:26.520
<v Speaker 2>get your tickets right here on my Twitter. If you

1648
01:32:26.520 --> 01:32:28.560
<v Speaker 2>want the link, it's right underneath here. You come over

1649
01:32:28.600 --> 01:32:32.720
<v Speaker 2>here to this square checkout link right here, and you

1650
01:32:32.800 --> 01:32:39.039
<v Speaker 2>get tickets January nineteenth. Now, the convention is different from

1651
01:32:39.079 --> 01:32:42.399
<v Speaker 2>the evening lecture with me, so I think you can

1652
01:32:42.439 --> 01:32:44.720
<v Speaker 2>go to the convention. I'm not sure if there's tickets

1653
01:32:44.760 --> 01:32:47.960
<v Speaker 2>for the convention. But he gets a good crowd, he said,

1654
01:32:48.000 --> 01:32:51.560
<v Speaker 2>he gets about four or five hundred people. It's not

1655
01:32:51.920 --> 01:32:54.479
<v Speaker 2>it's a different crowd from what we're used to my audience,

1656
01:32:54.520 --> 01:32:58.079
<v Speaker 2>so it's going to be a unique experience with the

1657
01:32:59.680 --> 01:33:04.560
<v Speaker 2>B movie horror crowd. So there's some interesting B movie

1658
01:33:04.560 --> 01:33:07.279
<v Speaker 2>famous people coming to this event. Some of most of people,

1659
01:33:07.319 --> 01:33:09.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't know who they are, but we'll be there.

1660
01:33:09.600 --> 01:33:11.800
<v Speaker 2>I'll have a booth, we'll be selling esolter Hollywood and

1661
01:33:11.800 --> 01:33:14.079
<v Speaker 2>so forth, and I will be giving a kind of

1662
01:33:14.079 --> 01:33:16.479
<v Speaker 2>an esoteric Hollywood type lecture that night. Get your tickets

1663
01:33:16.560 --> 01:33:20.319
<v Speaker 2>right here. January nineteenth, Tampa Bay Screams in Tampa Bay, Florida.

1664
01:33:20.720 --> 01:33:21.720
<v Speaker 2>So there's those tickets