1
00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:09,800
Speaker 1: Le Christmas Time and cookie sweatitors and Karen Kutz and

2
00:00:10,279 --> 00:00:13,199
Ugly Betties Christmas Time.

3
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:13,919
Speaker 2: What's up? Man?

4
00:00:14,839 --> 00:00:19,120
Speaker 3: Hey? Hey, hey, am I am? I coming in clear?

5
00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:24,039
Speaker 4: Yes, sir, Yeah, I wasn't originally gonna do this, but

6
00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:25,559
a friend of mine recommended you to me.

7
00:00:26,679 --> 00:00:29,239
Speaker 3: Uh he's an Orthodox himself.

8
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:35,039
Speaker 4: I myself am well, I just I guess I want

9
00:00:35,039 --> 00:00:37,320
to just point out that I do believe in Christ.

10
00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,399
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not an atheist. I'm not trying to

11
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:40,520
troll you.

12
00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,479
Speaker 4: Sound kind of you sound kind of tired from all

13
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:47,119
the atheism in the general moronic nature of them all.

14
00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,479
Speaker 2: But uh, I mean I'm pretty good. I'm running on

15
00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,479
about seventy percent gasoline right now. I'm pretty good.

16
00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:55,679
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I know the feeling.

17
00:00:55,719 --> 00:01:00,280
Speaker 4: Brother, I I guess what I'm trying I want to

18
00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,759
say is and forgive me if I go on a

19
00:01:02,759 --> 00:01:05,599
few tangents. Uh stop me at any time if.

20
00:01:05,439 --> 00:01:09,799
Speaker 3: You, if you wish. But uh uh I was raised.

21
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:10,239
Speaker 5: Uh.

22
00:01:10,359 --> 00:01:14,239
Speaker 4: I guess you could say Protestant, but you know, I.

23
00:01:13,879 --> 00:01:15,719
Speaker 6: Never really knew what that was back then.

24
00:01:16,719 --> 00:01:17,319
Speaker 3: Uh.

25
00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,519
Speaker 4: I just went to church, I you know, prayed to God,

26
00:01:21,599 --> 00:01:24,680
read the Bible, all that, all that stuff. You know, uh,

27
00:01:24,719 --> 00:01:30,040
pretty pretty innocent stuff. My mother was raised Catholic, but

28
00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:35,560
she uh abandoned that. Uh, she sort of became Protestant.

29
00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:39,359
But after a lot of church hopping, because admittedly none

30
00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,159
of the churches in our area were very uh well,

31
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:46,719
they never seemed genuine, so we just just straight up

32
00:01:46,719 --> 00:01:49,439
to stop going to church altogether and just, uh, I

33
00:01:49,439 --> 00:01:51,760
guess you could say we became sola scriptura.

34
00:01:52,319 --> 00:01:53,319
Speaker 3: I guess that's what it's called.

35
00:01:53,519 --> 00:01:56,959
Speaker 4: But I didn't know what that was until my friend

36
00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,200
pointed it out. And uh, He's told me a lot

37
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,400
about Orthodoxy, and I admit it is interesting, it's fascinating.

38
00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:12,199
It's certainly more better than Catholicism. But okay, I guess

39
00:02:12,479 --> 00:02:14,520
some of my disagreements that I have with it, I

40
00:02:14,759 --> 00:02:18,199
guess I will admit I don't know much about.

41
00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,080
Speaker 2: What's the question.

42
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,280
Speaker 3: Regarding saints?

43
00:02:26,719 --> 00:02:32,000
Speaker 4: Is one thing, prayer to the saints, I guess, because

44
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,800
that's a thing that Orthos do, right.

45
00:02:34,599 --> 00:02:37,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you read Revelation five through nine, you'll notice

46
00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,680
that John is on earth participating in the heavenly liturgy,

47
00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,759
and there's specific statements, particularly Revelation I think it's eight,

48
00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,080
where you have the saints in heaven, the angels in

49
00:02:49,159 --> 00:02:52,719
heaven offering the prayers of the Church of the Saints.

50
00:02:53,159 --> 00:02:56,599
The saints that are martyred in heaven underneath the altar

51
00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,840
are praying for the Church on earth. So the doctrine

52
00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,719
of the community of Saints, which we see clearly in

53
00:03:02,759 --> 00:03:05,599
Hebrews eleven in Revelation five through nine, is the basis

54
00:03:05,599 --> 00:03:07,919
for why we would ask saints to pray for us.

55
00:03:08,039 --> 00:03:10,919
Is technically what's going on. We're not praying to them

56
00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:11,439
as gods.

57
00:03:12,879 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 6: Okay, all right, that's uh, Revelation.

58
00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,280
Speaker 2: Five, five through nine. So those chapters are where John

59
00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,800
specifically sees a heavenly liturgical worship service going on.

60
00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,400
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, because I didn't get that at first. I

61
00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:31,039
assumed it was that it seemed like prayer to dead men,

62
00:03:31,439 --> 00:03:33,159
and it's you know, it sounded like niicromancy.

63
00:03:33,199 --> 00:03:34,639
Speaker 2: And you know, I understand. I mean, I was a

64
00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,639
protest and I used to have that that mindset as well,

65
00:03:36,719 --> 00:03:38,560
so I get it. But I think if you look

66
00:03:38,639 --> 00:03:42,039
at what's going on in Revelation five through nine, and

67
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,000
if you consider the fact that you know, in the

68
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,000
Orthodox view, we think that the heavenly liturgy is the

69
00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,639
earthly liturgy that they're the same liturgy. That's the thought process,

70
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,319
the basis behind why why would we do that? Conspiracy theorist?

71
00:03:55,400 --> 00:04:02,800
What's up man? Christmas?

72
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:10,000
Speaker 1: Dime mus Alli here, cookie sweaters and nasty beer?

73
00:04:10,599 --> 00:04:19,480
Speaker 2: What's up? I'm mute? Conspiracy? Therest simply Harvey wonderful Christmas.

74
00:04:20,199 --> 00:04:22,319
The thing about Christmas is the worst is all these

75
00:04:22,519 --> 00:04:25,079
horrible Christmas songs that you hear everywhere in the stores,

76
00:04:25,319 --> 00:04:30,680
like freaking Paul McCartney Christmas wings. Christmas songs are the worst,

77
00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,839
and all the freaking department stores love those wings Paul

78
00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,639
McCartney Christmas songs that are just awful. I'm mute, man,

79
00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,120
Do you want to talk or not? He left has

80
00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:59,560
Sony Armstrong. What's the worst of the department store Christmas songs? Today?

81
00:04:59,639 --> 00:05:01,439
Is test my patience. Today is one of those days

82
00:05:01,439 --> 00:05:04,680
where I just want to quit and go be an assassin.

83
00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,879
I want to go to some assassin school and just

84
00:05:07,959 --> 00:05:12,120
learn to, you know, be a trained killer. I don't

85
00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,000
know that's a joke, by the way, but that's how

86
00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:21,720
I feel. Jonathan, what's up man? See might know where

87
00:05:21,759 --> 00:05:24,000
assassin school is. What's the tuition for you to get

88
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:25,319
an Assassin school. What's up?

89
00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:25,519
Speaker 7: Man?

90
00:05:26,519 --> 00:05:30,680
Speaker 8: Hey, I come from kind of a evangelical background.

91
00:05:31,199 --> 00:05:32,720
Speaker 2: I come from the water mm hmm.

92
00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:40,160
Speaker 8: And so all around me all my friend's family constant

93
00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,639
like signs and miracles that they kind of view as

94
00:05:43,879 --> 00:05:45,959
stamps of approval that they're.

95
00:05:46,199 --> 00:05:47,279
Speaker 6: Walking the right faith.

96
00:05:48,399 --> 00:05:51,759
Speaker 8: Lately kind of just seeing like what's going on.

97
00:05:51,759 --> 00:05:52,600
Speaker 3: In Syria and stuff.

98
00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,480
Speaker 8: It's like I'll have friends talking about how God healed

99
00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,279
their iPhone after they prayed over it.

100
00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,480
Speaker 2: Like, okay, wait, heal their yield their eyes phone?

101
00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,560
Speaker 8: Yeah, like their iPhone wasn't charging. Just trust in God

102
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:06,399
and it starts working.

103
00:06:07,439 --> 00:06:08,560
Speaker 2: Okay.

104
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:10,519
Speaker 3: They seem really sincere about it.

105
00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,399
Speaker 8: But at the same time, it's like I see all

106
00:06:13,399 --> 00:06:16,720
these ancient Christian communities getting wiped out, and it's like, okay,

107
00:06:16,759 --> 00:06:20,560
so why is God doing all these wonders for us

108
00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,079
and like the most pampered.

109
00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,839
Speaker 2: For Yeah, there's a bunch of evangelical idiots here. There's

110
00:06:23,879 --> 00:06:26,600
not signs and wonders with iPhones miraculous are being healed.

111
00:06:27,879 --> 00:06:30,720
Speaker 8: Yeah, is there a way to like even to even

112
00:06:30,759 --> 00:06:32,920
reason with that? Like, how do you how do you

113
00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:33,879
even break someone out of it?

114
00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:35,879
Speaker 2: I don't even know, man, that's a great question. I don't.

115
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,279
I mean, if somebody thinks that the iPhone got healed

116
00:06:38,439 --> 00:06:44,040
and it's a miracle, find new friends. That's all I

117
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,560
can think of, Anthony, what's up, man? I know it's tough,

118
00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,360
but give them time. I don't know, try to be

119
00:06:49,439 --> 00:06:58,160
nice to them. Although Paul did have the miraculous gift

120
00:06:58,199 --> 00:07:03,279
of healing phost is there a patron saying of iPhone?

121
00:07:03,439 --> 00:07:04,879
Anthony got to mute, man, what's up?

122
00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:10,439
Speaker 3: Ja? Can you hear me? So? Sorry?

123
00:07:12,199 --> 00:07:12,639
Speaker 6: Excellent?

124
00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:14,879
Speaker 9: I was curious, what do you think of the cosmic

125
00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,920
temple view of Genesis. I'm not sure if I heard

126
00:07:16,959 --> 00:07:19,439
you say anything about that recently. What are your thoughts?

127
00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:25,079
What cosmic temple view of Genesis? You familiar with that?

128
00:07:26,079 --> 00:07:28,839
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm familiar with like James Jordan's research, that

129
00:07:29,199 --> 00:07:33,879
Genesis speaks of the creation of the universe, like the

130
00:07:33,879 --> 00:07:35,519
Biblical temple. Is that what we're talking about?

131
00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,319
Speaker 9: Yeah, the creation of the universe. Yeah, Yeah, that's what

132
00:07:42,399 --> 00:07:43,639
I was talking about.

133
00:07:43,839 --> 00:07:46,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's in Three New Eyes, is a

134
00:07:46,319 --> 00:07:48,680
great book by James Jordan that covers that. I think

135
00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,160
that's a good perspective.

136
00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,839
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll check that out next A good question.

137
00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Three New Eyes is a classic, even though Jordan

138
00:08:00,279 --> 00:08:02,040
wrote that when he was Protestant, when I guess he

139
00:08:02,199 --> 00:08:06,279
technically still is Anglican or whatever whatever he's made up.

140
00:08:06,319 --> 00:08:09,120
But R JB. What's up?

141
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:09,319
Speaker 3: Man?

142
00:08:09,879 --> 00:08:13,959
Speaker 2: It's still a good book. It's essentially kind of patristic.

143
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,160
Hermeneuticts a lot of typology going on. The universe is

144
00:08:17,199 --> 00:08:20,319
structured in a three tiered you know structure.

145
00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:26,480
Speaker 5: Go ahead, Hey, j how are you doing good?

146
00:08:26,079 --> 00:08:26,199
Speaker 3: Uh?

147
00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,959
Speaker 5: You know, this is not the first time that we've spoken.

148
00:08:30,639 --> 00:08:33,840
If you remember a alternate current radio.

149
00:08:35,519 --> 00:08:38,799
Speaker 3: We we spoke there a long time ago.

150
00:08:41,799 --> 00:08:44,320
Speaker 2: Remind me. I'm sorry, I don't remember what Who are

151
00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:45,559
you or do you don't want to know you?

152
00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,679
Speaker 3: Do you remember the name Hesher? We Yeah?

153
00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:49,159
Speaker 2: I know Hasher?

154
00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:49,639
Speaker 1: Yeah?

155
00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,720
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah he was. I was one of the people

156
00:08:53,759 --> 00:08:55,759
in the Knicks on his website.

157
00:08:58,039 --> 00:08:59,639
Speaker 2: You don't want to say which guy you were?

158
00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:06,799
Speaker 3: I mean, Oh Ryan, Ryan? G Yes, sir? Oh what's up?

159
00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:09,200
Pretty good? How are you doing?

160
00:09:09,519 --> 00:09:10,440
Speaker 2: What's what's on your mine?

161
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,679
Speaker 3: So? Yeah, I apologize. I could have just jumped into it.

162
00:09:15,879 --> 00:09:19,720
Speaker 10: Just just wanted you to know I'm not some strangers

163
00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:29,440
you as well, So funny enough, when we last spoke. Uh,

164
00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,279
you probably didn't even know my stance on any of this,

165
00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,279
but I was probably closest to what you could call

166
00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:44,519
it deist at that time. I grew up in Catholicism,

167
00:09:45,159 --> 00:09:49,840
but fell away spent about twelve years away from the church.

168
00:09:51,399 --> 00:09:52,639
Speaker 3: I've since come back.

169
00:09:55,000 --> 00:10:01,000
Speaker 5: I at this point, I am convinced of the truth

170
00:10:01,039 --> 00:10:06,080
of the Catholic faith. So I just thought I would

171
00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:10,919
call in and try to I mean, I know this

172
00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,679
is about debate, and I don't mind having a bit

173
00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,639
of a debate, but my goal here is more having

174
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:25,080
mutual understanding and hopefully gleanings that hopefully we could glean

175
00:10:25,159 --> 00:10:26,159
something from each other.

176
00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,519
Speaker 3: But you know, I'm just saying that's my goal.

177
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,039
Speaker 5: Where I would start it at is do we agree

178
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,720
on the four marks of the Church as stated in

179
00:10:38,799 --> 00:10:39,759
the Nicene Creed.

180
00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,600
Speaker 2: Absolutely well, I think we would agree at least basically

181
00:10:45,039 --> 00:10:47,360
one Holy Catholic I wastall. But what I would actually

182
00:10:47,399 --> 00:10:50,240
argue that's an argument against the Roman Catholic position, because

183
00:10:50,799 --> 00:10:53,919
there's nothing in the Creed or in you know, sort

184
00:10:53,919 --> 00:10:58,759
of the Batristic era theological summaries, whether it's John Damascus

185
00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,279
is on the Orthodox Faith or whether it's a catechetical

186
00:11:02,399 --> 00:11:05,200
lectures of Saint Cirril Jerusalem, like, none of those texts

187
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,840
really make Rome the focal point of the One Holy

188
00:11:09,879 --> 00:11:14,639
Catholic Apostolic Church. And in fact, the council which is

189
00:11:14,639 --> 00:11:16,840
constant the number one and three eighty one when they

190
00:11:16,879 --> 00:11:20,159
composed that additional section to the Creed, you know, the

191
00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,399
section about the church. That section is composed by a

192
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,120
council had out of communion with Rome, presided over by

193
00:11:28,159 --> 00:11:30,360
Saint Melidio's who died out of communion with Rome. And

194
00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,399
so if Constantinople one accurately lists the phrase one Holy

195
00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,440
Calic Apostolic Church and they were not in commune with

196
00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,000
Rome when they wrote that, they did not mean the papacy.

197
00:11:40,159 --> 00:11:42,559
And so I would argue that that's actually in favor

198
00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:43,200
of my position.

199
00:11:44,639 --> 00:11:49,519
Speaker 5: Okay, when you say Rome, you're not I mean, just

200
00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,759
to clarify, you're not speaking geographically.

201
00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,639
Speaker 2: I'm speaking of the See of Rome, right, So I

202
00:11:57,639 --> 00:12:01,799
mean the See of Rome is geographic, sure.

203
00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,519
Speaker 5: Well, I mean it. I guess you could say the

204
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:06,000
Charter is the world.

205
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,799
Speaker 2: Though the Charter I don't know what you meant.

206
00:12:10,759 --> 00:12:18,120
Speaker 3: The scope of influence of the Roman Well, influences.

207
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,480
Speaker 2: Influence is one thing. But like, if you read the

208
00:12:21,519 --> 00:12:25,039
Chiad Document of Rome from a few years ago, it

209
00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:29,519
admits that the Bishop of Rome did not have jurisdiction

210
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:34,480
over the churches of East in the first millennium.

211
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,720
Speaker 3: Okay, no, I actually that makes sense to me. I

212
00:12:38,759 --> 00:12:40,279
mean in terms of.

213
00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:46,320
Speaker 5: The as far as I understand it, there were multiple seas.

214
00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:49,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Vatican one claims that from the earliest days

215
00:12:49,759 --> 00:12:52,519
of the Church, the Roman Sea had universal jurisdiction over

216
00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:57,399
the entire Christian imperium, the Christian body. And I'm saying that,

217
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,600
I'm saying that the Chiad document that Rome has up

218
00:13:00,639 --> 00:13:04,960
on the Vatican website admits that this is not true,

219
00:13:05,279 --> 00:13:11,120
that the Roman when was that published twenty sixteen?

220
00:13:12,639 --> 00:13:15,720
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, I'd probably have issues with that.

221
00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:16,000
Speaker 3: But.

222
00:13:17,399 --> 00:13:26,000
Speaker 2: So do you know better than Francis I.

223
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,240
Speaker 5: I mean, I can't. I can't say in what in

224
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,320
what particulars.

225
00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,759
Speaker 2: Well, I mean Benedict the sixteenth, Okay, Benedict the sixteenth,

226
00:13:32,759 --> 00:13:35,480
in his book Introduction to Christianity, says basically the same

227
00:13:35,519 --> 00:13:39,240
thing that in the first millennium the Roman seed did

228
00:13:39,279 --> 00:13:41,519
not exercise universal jurisdiction over the East.

229
00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,879
Speaker 3: Okay, well, so is Vatican.

230
00:13:46,519 --> 00:13:47,679
Speaker 2: One right or are they right?

231
00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:51,279
Speaker 3: I mean, I.

232
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,720
Speaker 5: Think I'd be really interested to go over the exact

233
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,159
lines where you're saying that those two are in contradiction.

234
00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:00,919
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, Vatican one says very clearly it's not

235
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,440
even contested that the Bishop of Rome has universal jurisdiction

236
00:14:05,519 --> 00:14:09,159
and headship unilaterally over all the church without any need

237
00:14:09,159 --> 00:14:11,200
for a synod or any other bishop to approve what

238
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,679
he says and does. That's the whole basis for ex cathedral.

239
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:15,679
I mean, that's Vatican One.

240
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:20,360
Speaker 5: Well, as I'm understanding that this all emanates.

241
00:14:19,799 --> 00:14:23,960
Speaker 3: From the primacy of Peter the patrion office.

242
00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:28,320
Speaker 2: Well, I mean what you mean by the first among

243
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,799
equals or something like that, then Orthodox person could agree

244
00:14:30,799 --> 00:14:34,759
to that to the word quote premascy, because because in

245
00:14:34,879 --> 00:14:38,639
the councils, Rome is listed first. Rome usually signed the

246
00:14:38,679 --> 00:14:41,759
council first, but the Bishop of Rome didn't call any

247
00:14:41,759 --> 00:14:46,960
ecumenical councils. There were popes who were excommunicated by ecumenical councils,

248
00:14:47,799 --> 00:14:50,639
there were popes who submitted to ecumenical councils, like Virgilius.

249
00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,440
So I'm just pointing out that Vatican one is an

250
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,840
innovation over the senidality collegiality practice of the Church in

251
00:14:57,879 --> 00:15:00,960
the first millennium.

252
00:15:01,279 --> 00:15:04,759
Speaker 3: Okay, but I mean, I guess I could.

253
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,720
Speaker 5: I'm not going to say that you're wrong there, but

254
00:15:07,759 --> 00:15:10,720
I without having it directly in front of me, I'm

255
00:15:10,759 --> 00:15:12,519
not sure exactly where you're saying those tes.

256
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,279
Speaker 2: That's fine. So so if you go to Papalincyclicals dot net,

257
00:15:15,399 --> 00:15:17,320
you can type in Vatican one and you'll get the

258
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,639
full documentation of all of that. If you print it out,

259
00:15:20,639 --> 00:15:23,519
it's about fifteen pages. That's all of Vatican One. And

260
00:15:23,519 --> 00:15:24,679
then I would say, if you look at the G

261
00:15:24,799 --> 00:15:29,840
eighty document Chi e t I from twenty sixteen, that

262
00:15:29,919 --> 00:15:34,039
document is about the admissions of the Roman Sea to

263
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,840
the Eastern churches. So that's why that's very relevant to

264
00:15:37,919 --> 00:15:41,720
this discussion. And the paragraph nineteen is the last of

265
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,559
THECH eighty document, and that's where it says that the

266
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,000
Bishop of Rome did not exercise canonical authority over the

267
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,879
churches of the East. So that's an admission that the

268
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,320
East and the Orthodox have been complaining about for so long,

269
00:15:54,399 --> 00:15:57,679
for a thousand years, And I'm arguing that this admission

270
00:15:57,799 --> 00:16:00,679
contradicts the claims of Vatican One, so you can, I

271
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,519
mean you can feel free to go fact check me,

272
00:16:03,559 --> 00:16:04,679
please do no.

273
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,080
Speaker 5: I think that there's I think we may have a

274
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:12,320
common understanding here in terms of the concept of suy

275
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:20,399
Urus self governing, that there there was a self governing

276
00:16:20,919 --> 00:16:23,519
or I shouldn't say, what was that. In some sense

277
00:16:23,639 --> 00:16:28,240
there's a self governing aspect of Eastern Catholic.

278
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,960
Speaker 2: Church now, but that's not about This is not about

279
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:34,159
whether there were autocephalist churches, which Ephesus Council of Ephesis

280
00:16:34,279 --> 00:16:39,320
grants autocephally to the Church of Cyprus. So there are

281
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,519
autocephalist churches, which everyone admits, but that's a different issue

282
00:16:43,559 --> 00:16:46,600
from whether or not that it Caan One dogmatically teaches

283
00:16:46,639 --> 00:16:49,519
that the pope has unilateral universal jurisdiction. I mean, it's

284
00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:52,080
not even in question. It's what Vatican everybody knows. Vatican

285
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,000
One teaches that. That knows what Vatican One says.

286
00:16:54,639 --> 00:16:58,879
Speaker 5: So yeah, so I I grasp what you've said, and

287
00:16:58,919 --> 00:17:04,079
I'll definitely do more research on on what you've referenced there.

288
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,960
What I wanted to more nail down in terms of

289
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,279
what I was saying is the foremarks of the church

290
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:12,920
stated in the Nicing Creed.

291
00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:19,039
Speaker 3: So for me, when I reverted, I had.

292
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:24,680
Speaker 5: A fork in the road, which was Catholicism or Orthodoxy,

293
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:32,319
And where where I had it was concerning the Nicene Creed,

294
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,079
that I fell on the side of Catholicism.

295
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,279
Speaker 2: But did you hear that I said about constantin Noble One,

296
00:17:38,319 --> 00:17:40,599
that when they wrote One Holy Catholic Apostolic, they were

297
00:17:40,599 --> 00:17:44,079
out of communion with Rome. Were you aware of that?

298
00:17:46,799 --> 00:17:47,119
Speaker 3: No?

299
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,319
Speaker 2: But so if you look up the schism, the Malaysian

300
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,960
Schism and the Schism of constantinople One, Rome did not

301
00:17:55,079 --> 00:18:01,240
accept constant constantinople One until centuries later. So retroactive says, Okay,

302
00:18:01,279 --> 00:18:04,720
we do accept the addition to the Creed and constantin

303
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:09,400
Noble One's teachings, but that's centuries later. So when they

304
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,200
wrote that, and the Cappadocians were the you know, primary

305
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,680
theologians at constantin Noble One, they clearly did not have

306
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,440
the Vatican One mindset in mind when they wrote One

307
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:20,400
Holy Catholic Obstallic.

308
00:18:22,279 --> 00:18:26,880
Speaker 7: Okay, But so yeah, what I'm more getting at it

309
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,359
so that I mean that that may be all just

310
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,880
fine and true, and I I'm not necessarily trying to dispute.

311
00:18:34,519 --> 00:18:37,319
Speaker 5: That At the moment, what I'm trying to get at

312
00:18:37,559 --> 00:18:40,960
is one Holy Catholic and Apostolic.

313
00:18:40,599 --> 00:18:43,559
Speaker 2: So so, and that's fine, we can move on. But

314
00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:47,319
you're saying that the mindset of the people that wrote

315
00:18:47,319 --> 00:18:50,960
it doesn't really matter. It's what Rome says it means?

316
00:18:51,839 --> 00:18:52,960
Is that is that where we're going.

317
00:18:54,319 --> 00:18:54,960
Speaker 3: Not so much.

318
00:18:55,279 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 5: I'm just trying to nail down what my reasoning is

319
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,200
oka why you might I think my reasoning is false.

320
00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,359
Speaker 2: So I mean, so you're going to say what that like,

321
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,160
the Catholicity involves numbers. Rome has a lot of numbers,

322
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:09,839
and Orthodox don't. Is that where you're going?

323
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:17,359
Speaker 3: Well sort of, I mean you're you're not far off.

324
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,000
Speaker 2: So what was Catholicity true in the fourth century when

325
00:19:22,039 --> 00:19:24,640
most of the church was Aryan or semiarian? Where were

326
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:25,160
the numbers?

327
00:19:28,599 --> 00:19:30,240
Speaker 3: Was Catholicity true?

328
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:32,960
Speaker 2: If it's numbers, it was?

329
00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:35,319
Speaker 3: It was, Well, what do you mean by numbers?

330
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,000
Speaker 2: Well, if the argument is going to be that the

331
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,880
Roman Catholic Church is the one Holy Catholic Capsolic Church

332
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,799
because it's the one that has the numbers, then that's

333
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,440
false because they didn't have nobody. Whether you're Orthodox or Catholic.

334
00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:51,640
In the fourth century, the majority of the Church was

335
00:19:51,839 --> 00:19:54,480
Aryan or semiarian, and at one point there was only

336
00:19:54,559 --> 00:19:58,319
a handful of bishops that were Orthodox, st Athanasius being

337
00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:02,440
one of them. So it cannot be a numbers game. Catholicity,

338
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,240
in the Orthodox view, means fullness of truth, not primarily

339
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:07,359
essentially numbers.

340
00:20:10,839 --> 00:20:13,799
Speaker 5: That's so, that's not Yeah, I don't understand it in

341
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:14,799
terms of numbers.

342
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,279
Speaker 3: How I understand, Like, if you wouldn't mind, I'll just

343
00:20:18,319 --> 00:20:18,839
break it down.

344
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 5: Catholic means universal, means applying.

345
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,640
Speaker 2: To the whole fullness agreed, we agree.

346
00:20:34,079 --> 00:20:43,039
Speaker 3: So, and then holy would be uh from God.

347
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 2: Well and produces saints.

348
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 3: And yes, so, but but essentially sanctified. It would be

349
00:20:55,279 --> 00:20:56,079
another way to put that.

350
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:03,599
Speaker 5: Apostolic would be emanating from the apostles, which which we

351
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,519
agree with that ultimately saying a mission from Christ given

352
00:21:07,559 --> 00:21:08,079
by Christ.

353
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,599
Speaker 2: Well, it means Apostolic succession, right, But.

354
00:21:11,599 --> 00:21:14,680
Speaker 5: I'm saying the the apostles are the apostles because they

355
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:16,000
were given a mission by Christ.

356
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,160
Speaker 2: Well, that's part of episode succession, is that the apostles

357
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,400
are the successors to Christ.

358
00:21:21,279 --> 00:21:28,279
Speaker 5: Right, and and then one meaning unified, and so my

359
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:33,440
issue comes in when well, I'd say I have two issues,

360
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,720
but the latter is maybe more easily resolvable. So I

361
00:21:38,759 --> 00:21:44,279
think one and Catholic are an issue. And but but

362
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,279
Catholic maybe not. Like I said, maybe that's easily resolvable.

363
00:21:48,319 --> 00:21:52,039
Speaker 2: But I think that, Uh, let me give you an

364
00:21:52,039 --> 00:21:54,400
example of where I would say that the Romaic Coley

365
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,559
Church is not one. The Roumancallolic Church allows all of

366
00:21:57,599 --> 00:22:01,480
the Eastern Catholics to recite a different and creed than

367
00:22:01,559 --> 00:22:04,599
the Western Church. How can the true church have two

368
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,680
different creeds? And in the first thousand years the church

369
00:22:08,839 --> 00:22:10,559
didn't have two different creeds, they had one creed.

370
00:22:11,279 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 3: Oh, I think that's a big issue. But but to say.

371
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,079
Speaker 2: That, well, then so then what does one mean? Just

372
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,599
the pope. It doesn't mean actual faith. They're not one

373
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:20,000
in faith.

374
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 3: It's just one of the faith one baptism.

375
00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:24,599
Speaker 2: Okay, but how is it one faith if the church

376
00:22:24,599 --> 00:22:26,319
has two creeds?

377
00:22:28,799 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 3: I mean, that's an issue.

378
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 5: But but I think that when you say the Roman

379
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:38,279
Catholic Church says, that's where I'm not connecting with what

380
00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:38,799
you're saying.

381
00:22:39,279 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 3: It's not I'm not trying to say that. What where

382
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,680
you got that is wrong. But it seems that.

383
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 2: What what did I whether I say that? What what

384
00:22:50,279 --> 00:22:52,480
did I say? Rome says that you're unclear about? And

385
00:22:52,519 --> 00:22:56,119
I'll sort of cite you whatever documents you want.

386
00:22:58,839 --> 00:23:02,519
Speaker 3: Wait, I'm sorry, I could you're.

387
00:23:01,279 --> 00:23:04,319
Speaker 2: You're saying to me Jay when you say Rome says,

388
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,759
I don't know if that's accurate or where you got that,

389
00:23:06,839 --> 00:23:09,720
And I'm asking you, which thing are you unclear about?

390
00:23:09,759 --> 00:23:11,960
I'll give you the source. Oh sure, I mean, I've

391
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,400
got We've got Denzinger right here.

392
00:23:14,799 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 5: Well, it's just I noticed that you and many people

393
00:23:19,079 --> 00:23:22,920
say the Roman Catholic Church believes or says X, and

394
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,559
I think that often you can have a source from

395
00:23:27,799 --> 00:23:33,039
those who claim to be of the Roman Catholic hierarchy.

396
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 2: Like the Vatican. I mean, I'm going to Denzinger. Do

397
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:36,279
you know what Denzinger is?

398
00:23:37,079 --> 00:23:37,839
Speaker 3: Well? Are you talking?

399
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 5: I think that papal infallible statements are of at the peak.

400
00:23:46,039 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 2: Of what I mean. I'm not do you know what

401
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:49,680
Denzinger is? Are you familiar with Denzinger?

402
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 3: I'm familiar with the name, but I could probably.

403
00:23:53,839 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 2: See this is the collection of dogmas that Rome has affirmed.

404
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,559
So this is one place to start for Roman Catholic dogma,

405
00:24:02,599 --> 00:24:05,200
and hence it's called the sources of Catholic dogma. I'm

406
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,200
not being arrogant, I'm not being mean to you. I'm

407
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,000
just literally saying, that's what Denzinger is. It's the sources

408
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,279
of Catholic dogma. And so when I say something like

409
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,000
Vatican one says this, you can find it at paoplencyclicals

410
00:24:17,039 --> 00:24:19,759
dot net under Vatican one or in Denzinger. Because Denzinger

411
00:24:19,759 --> 00:24:22,559
pretty much has all the Vatican One. It's not the

412
00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:27,119
only source of Romanclic dogma because Denzinger doesn't have everything

413
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,400
that's taught by the papacy. It just has a collection

414
00:24:31,319 --> 00:24:33,640
of papally approved things. But if you go to the

415
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:38,279
Vatican website, they cite Denzinger, so it's definitely an authoritative source.

416
00:24:39,759 --> 00:24:46,799
Speaker 5: Okay, but well, where do you source the claim.

417
00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:50,519
Speaker 3: That you made the which one?

418
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 5: Which you know, I'm kind of blanking because I was

419
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,960
so focused on what you were just saying. But you

420
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:04,880
were suggesting hmm, well, I know, I know you mentioned

421
00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:09,160
about the Eastern churches having a different creed.

422
00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 2: That's not that's not even a controversial. I mean, you

423
00:25:12,519 --> 00:25:15,319
can go ask any Uniate or Greek Catholic like they

424
00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:20,279
recite the Creed without the philioque. This is well known, right, yeah,

425
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,240
so you need a you need a papal statement whether

426
00:25:23,279 --> 00:25:23,759
that's true?

427
00:25:25,319 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 5: No, right, no, no, no, I what I'm saying, Well, no,

428
00:25:28,519 --> 00:25:31,440
I guess I think I think I got lost.

429
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 3: In the mix there there.

430
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 5: You had made a statement that the Roman Catholic Church says,

431
00:25:36,559 --> 00:25:41,319
and I'm I'm just questioning, is that an infallible teaching

432
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,799
or is that something that you read from the Vatican

433
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:45,920
that may or may not be.

434
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,839
Speaker 2: Well, Vatican one is infallible. It's a dogmatic ecumenical council.

435
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,599
So in the Roman Catholic system, yes, Vatican one is infallible.

436
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,279
And presumably, I mean maybe some Roman Catholic has some

437
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,519
argument they would make. I would say Denzinger also includes

438
00:25:59,559 --> 00:26:03,839
everything that is quote infallible or ordinary universal magisterial teaching,

439
00:26:03,839 --> 00:26:06,680
which cornabatic in one is protected by the Petrine charism.

440
00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:09,839
So Denzinger also should be without.

441
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 5: Error, Okay, And that that may be the case. I

442
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,359
can't speak to that. My issue comes down to when

443
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:26,160
I think about the question of Orthodox versus Catholicism, I

444
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:34,599
think that Orthodox is lacking the unity, and I guess

445
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,799
I am to me now.

446
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 2: And my first question to you was, well, then why

447
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:44,359
does if the Roman Catholic Church has the unity supposedly,

448
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,440
is that a unity of faith and belief or just

449
00:26:48,519 --> 00:26:51,160
a unity of we all believe in Francis and then

450
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,079
underneath Francis it's all fair game to do whatever you want,

451
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,640
because that's what I see and that's what I experience

452
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,519
in the Roman Catholic world. I see no unity between

453
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,960
the no Asorto hippie mass and Nosra Tat and the

454
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,920
SSPX Latin mass down the road. There's no unity between

455
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,640
those things. The only unity that exists is a common

456
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:14,000
confession of Pope Francis or the papacy. So my point

457
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,839
is precisely that that unity or the oneness of one

458
00:27:17,839 --> 00:27:21,519
Holy Catholic Apostolic refers then too, we're all one under

459
00:27:21,559 --> 00:27:26,240
the pope, but not a unity of actual theological faith confession.

460
00:27:26,759 --> 00:27:29,480
Hence my argument that the Roman Catholic Church has two

461
00:27:29,519 --> 00:27:31,039
different competing creeds within it.

462
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 5: I think that you and I have different concepts of

463
00:27:36,319 --> 00:27:37,200
unity going.

464
00:27:37,079 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 2: So what is the oneness of the Roman Caalic Church?

465
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,599
Speaker 3: Then? Faith?

466
00:27:42,039 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 2: One? How is it one faith when there's two different

467
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:45,359
creeds with two different faiths.

468
00:27:47,519 --> 00:27:49,519
Speaker 3: Both recite the Apostles creed.

469
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,839
Speaker 2: No, no, no, the Nicene Creed, where the Uniates recite

470
00:27:53,839 --> 00:27:56,400
the Philioque. Ascume me. They don't recite the philio oquay

471
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,039
and the rest of the Romancolic Church does. Do you

472
00:27:58,039 --> 00:28:05,279
not know what I'm talking about? I feel like I'm sorry,

473
00:28:05,279 --> 00:28:06,839
I'm not trying to be mean, but like, so, this

474
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,680
is a really basic So all of the Eastern Roman Catholics,

475
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:14,920
the Eastern Uni eight Catholic Church, Melchites, whatever a Russian Catholics,

476
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,839
Greek Catholics, they recite a different creed, literally, a different

477
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,200
Nicene Creed than the rest of the Latin Church. They

478
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,920
cite the creed that we Orthodox have, which is without

479
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:26,880
the Philioque.

480
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:28,599
Speaker 3: That's an issue.

481
00:28:28,599 --> 00:28:31,319
Speaker 5: But I thought you were saying between the Nova Sorto

482
00:28:31,519 --> 00:28:32,680
and the SSP, I.

483
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 2: Made a different analogy to a lack of actual unity

484
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,640
between those groups. Yes, I did, but that wasn't in

485
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,240
a reference to the creed. I'm saying that they don't

486
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,279
believe the same theology. Almost all the SSPX and traditional

487
00:28:44,279 --> 00:28:48,039
Catholics do not agree with the theology Vatican two. So

488
00:28:48,119 --> 00:28:50,599
how is their unified faith when a giant portion of

489
00:28:50,599 --> 00:28:54,240
the Church doesn't accept or rejects, or doesn't want to

490
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:55,119
believe Vatican two.

491
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 5: I think that there's a there's a distinction to be

492
00:29:01,039 --> 00:29:05,880
made between the what what is officially the faith that

493
00:29:06,079 --> 00:29:12,039
is prayed at Mass, and what is the faith that

494
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:17,240
is demonstrated in say a typical novasorto.

495
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,319
Speaker 2: I'm talking abou Vatican two documents in the dogmas and

496
00:29:20,319 --> 00:29:23,839
teaching the Vatican two. Regardless of what you believe, when

497
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,519
you walk into a novsorto or an SSPX Mass, do you,

498
00:29:26,599 --> 00:29:28,359
as a Roman Caouolic captain, belie Vatican two.

499
00:29:31,599 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 3: I don't know what that would even mean. Believe Vatican two.

500
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,240
It wasn't a dogmatic council.

501
00:29:36,359 --> 00:29:39,519
Speaker 2: It is a dogmatic council. No, that's totally false. No,

502
00:29:39,559 --> 00:29:41,960
it's not. It's what Paul the six said, was it

503
00:29:42,039 --> 00:29:45,920
quote proclaimed no new dogmas. There's four separate statements from

504
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,519
the popes that say it is dogmatic. So it's a

505
00:29:48,519 --> 00:29:53,359
total trad myth. It's a trad myth. That's yes, it is.

506
00:29:53,359 --> 00:29:55,160
Do you want me to give you the four statements

507
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,559
from the Vatican that you have to believe it?

508
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,559
Speaker 5: Sure, but they they state that it's an that I

509
00:30:02,559 --> 00:30:03,880
don't even know what I'm saying is, I.

510
00:30:03,839 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 3: Don't know what that would mean. It's an ecumenical council,

511
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,319
you're what they state?

512
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you have to believe in acumenical council. You

513
00:30:11,319 --> 00:30:14,000
think that when the Pope confirms an ecumenical council for

514
00:30:14,039 --> 00:30:15,960
the entire church on faith and morals, you don't have

515
00:30:16,039 --> 00:30:20,000
to believe it all. All Paul the sixth said was

516
00:30:20,039 --> 00:30:23,200
that it proclaimed no new dogmas. He never said it's

517
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,720
not dogmatic. And in fact, Francis and every Roman Catholic act,

518
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,359
why are you interrupting? Every Roman Catholic after the Council,

519
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,759
Every Roman, every Pope has enforced Vatican two and the

520
00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:35,319
New Mass on the entire church. So the idea that

521
00:30:35,359 --> 00:30:37,720
you don't have to believe it is ludicrous. Every Romancallolic

522
00:30:37,799 --> 00:30:40,000
church that you go to tells you and teaches you

523
00:30:40,039 --> 00:30:42,720
in the catechism that you must accept the documents of

524
00:30:42,759 --> 00:30:43,319
Vatican Two.

525
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 3: What must I accept from the documents?

526
00:30:46,599 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 2: All of the teaching, All the documents of Vatican two

527
00:30:48,759 --> 00:30:50,000
are signed off by the pepacy.

528
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 5: What specifically do I as a layers all of them?

529
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 2: The entirety of it. You don't get to reject any

530
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,839
of it because it's ordinary universal teaching.

531
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 3: What new doctrine was brought in in Vatican two.

532
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,319
Speaker 2: Well, Paul the six claims there was no new doctrines.

533
00:31:07,359 --> 00:31:09,640
I don't believe that. I believe that Vatican two, with

534
00:31:09,759 --> 00:31:13,200
no stro Tat, for example, taught that Hindus now worship

535
00:31:13,279 --> 00:31:15,359
the One True God as do Muslims. Do you believe

536
00:31:15,359 --> 00:31:17,839
that Muslims and Hindus worship the same God as Roman Catholics.

537
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 5: I think that that can be scrutinized a bit further

538
00:31:25,319 --> 00:31:27,319
than the way you just stated.

539
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 2: How do they believe in the Trinity? I mean, because

540
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,079
that's the only one true God that exists.

541
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,839
Speaker 5: Right, Well, so I think this is I do have

542
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,400
an issue with that, And I see I've studied this problem,

543
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:41,960
and I see the.

544
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:46,079
Speaker 3: Same issue that you see.

545
00:31:44,759 --> 00:31:48,799
Speaker 2: Because it's not true. That's because you have some discernment. Correct,

546
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,880
It's not true Muslims and Catholics and Orthodox do not

547
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,079
worship the same God because they use the word God.

548
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,480
And in fact, Vatican goes as far as to say

549
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,559
that Muslims and Catholics have the same faith as Abraham.

550
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,559
And yet Jesus says in John five that Abraham rejoiced

551
00:32:06,599 --> 00:32:07,880
to see his day and saw it was glad to

552
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,880
see me John eight. John five through eight, Jesus constantly

553
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,480
argues with the Pharisees that Abraham believed in him. Well,

554
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:19,160
then Muslims are not of the Abramic faith. Sure so Well,

555
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,759
if that's sure, then Vatican too is false. If you

556
00:32:21,799 --> 00:32:23,960
say sure, then Vatican to is false because it says

557
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:24,559
the opposite of that.

558
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,279
Speaker 5: I grasp what you're saying, and I've wrestled with the

559
00:32:29,319 --> 00:32:30,359
same problem.

560
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,759
Speaker 2: Well, this is an example of why Rome is a

561
00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:33,880
contradictory position.

562
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 5: If I could, I just want to explain how I

563
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,480
read what is in what I can do there. It's

564
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,200
you know, I will say that this is what is

565
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,519
called weaponized ambiguity, and I think that there is a

566
00:32:49,599 --> 00:32:50,279
huge problem.

567
00:32:50,359 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 2: I know, man, I mean, I've heard all this since

568
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,680
two thousand and five when I was I was going

569
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,559
to the Latin mass in two thousand and five, and

570
00:32:57,599 --> 00:33:00,000
I've heard about weaponize ambiguity. Do you think it's ambiguous

571
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,799
when the Pope goes into the moss and praise towards Mecca?

572
00:33:02,839 --> 00:33:05,119
Is that ambiguous or is he acting? Is he acting

573
00:33:05,119 --> 00:33:05,920
out this theology.

574
00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 5: Yeah there, that's uh, that's wackiness. Uh, and I'm with

575
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:12,319
you on that.

576
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 2: But okay, well, then then then Vatican one is false

577
00:33:15,319 --> 00:33:16,960
and the Roman Sea has defected.

578
00:33:18,319 --> 00:33:19,599
Speaker 3: I don't think that's the case.

579
00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:21,839
Speaker 2: How are you keeping the true faith if you're praying

580
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,960
in Moss towards Mecca.

581
00:33:26,759 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 5: I mean I don't think you would. You certainly are

582
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,119
committing at least heresy, if not apostasy.

583
00:33:34,359 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 2: Okay, so then Vatican One's not true and Rome can

584
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,480
error and the papacy is not indefectible.

585
00:33:40,119 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 3: I don't think that that's necessarily true.

586
00:33:43,319 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 2: I mean, you just literally said that you think it's heretical.

587
00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:49,160
Francis and Benedict did it?

588
00:33:50,319 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

589
00:33:51,799 --> 00:33:54,559
Speaker 2: So are they heretics who defected or not?

590
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 5: I can answer that, But I wanted to address the

591
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:04,519
bit about Vatican.

592
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,039
Speaker 2: To the you were Okay, sure, God Like.

593
00:34:08,039 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 5: I have no problem going through methodically on this, but

594
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:11,800
I just I don't want to go all over the

595
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,760
place and lose where we were.

596
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 2: Okay, let me can I read the paragraph? It says

597
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,199
the Church regards with esteem the Muslims. Muslims adore the

598
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,079
one God living and subsisting in himself merciful and all

599
00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:27,480
powerful creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men.

600
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,119
Muslims take pains to submit wholeheartedly to his decrees, just

601
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,199
like Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure.

602
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:38,320
In Lincoln itself submitted to God. Though they do not

603
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,000
acknowledge Jesus as God, they honor him as a prophet.

604
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,280
And then it goes on to say they value the

605
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,360
moral life and the worship of God through prayer, almsgiving,

606
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,719
and fasting. This gives the impression that we have the

607
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,960
same common faith and that God accepts Islamic prayer, almsgiving,

608
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,199
and fasting, and none of that's true.

609
00:34:59,199 --> 00:35:03,119
Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean, that's uh, there's a lot of

610
00:35:03,159 --> 00:35:07,519
problems in that statement, but I think that it's important

611
00:35:07,559 --> 00:35:13,800
to look at the specific wording, Like they, I don't

612
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,760
have it in front of me, but I could get

613
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:16,440
it in front of me.

614
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,679
Speaker 3: They said that they claim to have Abrahamic faith or

615
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,639
what is that?

616
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 2: No, it actually says that. It says that they adore

617
00:35:29,519 --> 00:35:31,960
the one God living and subsisting in himself. Doesn't say

618
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,239
they claim to. It says they do it.

619
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,079
Speaker 5: Well, So let me just explain how I read that

620
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,719
and it's not may or may not be what was

621
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,280
intended in the words, and I certainly think that the

622
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,639
way it's worded is highly problematic.

623
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,679
Speaker 2: Well, I thought that the papacy was here to give

624
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,760
us clarity, certitude, and to guide us and preserve it.

625
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,599
So now it's weaponized ambiguity.

626
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 3: Vatican two definitely did not.

627
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 2: Be Okay, Well, then then the papacy doesn't work, because.

628
00:36:02,159 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 3: I don't think that has to be true. But the

629
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:07,119
way that I.

630
00:36:07,079 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 2: Read that, so we need you. I'm not trying to

631
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,039
be reade, but you don't see how Protestant this is.

632
00:36:11,079 --> 00:36:14,000
We actually need you, an individual Catholic, to suss through

633
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:17,000
all these stacks of papal documents to tell us the

634
00:36:17,039 --> 00:36:19,440
true papal meaning of the true papal councils.

635
00:36:19,559 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 3: No, I'm not suggesting that, well, but.

636
00:36:21,679 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 2: You are, because you're saying that the way to read

637
00:36:23,519 --> 00:36:25,360
it is blah blah blah blah blah.

638
00:36:25,519 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 3: No, I'm saying.

639
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 5: I'm saying that each individual has to apply critical thinking

640
00:36:31,159 --> 00:36:33,000
when they analyze anything.

641
00:36:33,199 --> 00:36:35,679
Speaker 2: Does Vatican one say that you judge the first see

642
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,880
and apply critical thinking to its teachings, or does it

643
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,159
say you submit with docility to whatever it teare, you're.

644
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 3: Not supposed to violate your conscience.

645
00:36:45,079 --> 00:36:48,159
Speaker 2: So it's not an issue of conscience because it also

646
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,880
says that you submit with docility. That's the teaching of

647
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,719
Vatican one is that the laity do not judge the

648
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,679
first see you submit with facility to its rulings and teachings.

649
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:58,679
Speaker 3: That's true.

650
00:36:59,079 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 2: Then you're not in a position to say that this

651
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:02,239
is weaponized ambiguity.

652
00:37:03,559 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 3: I think we're getting too scattered, and.

653
00:37:06,119 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 2: No, it's this is precisely the issue. It's not, it's

654
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:09,320
precisely the issue.

655
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 5: Well, it's just I want to be able to address

656
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,119
that one statement that Vatican too.

657
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,519
Speaker 3: I'm perfectly fine to move on to the other points.

658
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:22,199
Speaker 5: But uh, the way the way I grasp what is

659
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,079
said there in Vatican two, which admittedly it sucks, the

660
00:37:26,119 --> 00:37:29,320
way it's worded, it's like, I.

661
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,199
Speaker 2: Mean, these are dogmatic statements, and you're saying it sucks.

662
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,480
So this is like saying that divine revelations sucks.

663
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 3: They're not dogmatic states.

664
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 2: They are dogmatic statements. I'll give you four examples of

665
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,480
the pope saying that you have to accept all the

666
00:37:41,519 --> 00:37:42,480
documents of Vatican two.

667
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 3: There's nothing for me to accept.

668
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 2: There's that's just that you're lying to yourself because you

669
00:37:48,639 --> 00:37:51,320
are told in other places four times that you must

670
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:52,639
accept all the Vatican.

671
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,119
Speaker 3: Two and that means nothing. That they can keep repeating that.

672
00:37:56,079 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 2: But that so you don't actually follow the papacy. So

673
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,079
that thank you for admitting my point that you interpret

674
00:38:01,079 --> 00:38:05,360
off all the papers when you want to. No, you

675
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,599
literally just said you don't have to accept Vatican who's

676
00:38:07,639 --> 00:38:09,440
dogmatic even though the Pope tells you you have to.

677
00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 3: No, again, we're jump We're jumping to another point.

678
00:38:13,039 --> 00:38:15,199
Speaker 2: I just wanted to address because you're saying that a

679
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,800
dogmatic teaching is sucky, and I'm telling you that you

680
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,800
don't get to say that in the Roman Gothic system,

681
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,679
and it is dogmatic, Yes it is. If I so

682
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,000
if I give you four places where the Pope says

683
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,159
you have to accept Vatican two, you're telling me that

684
00:38:29,199 --> 00:38:30,159
you don't have to listen to.

685
00:38:30,119 --> 00:38:36,559
Speaker 5: That except Vatican two, yes mean something in practical reality.

686
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,119
Speaker 2: It means you must believe. Are you Why are you

687
00:38:39,199 --> 00:38:41,599
lying to yourself and lying to the audience because I

688
00:38:41,639 --> 00:38:44,679
can open up the Catholic the Roman Catholic Catechism sites

689
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,400
from Vatican to countless times, and you're telling me that Roan.

690
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 11: Doesn't teach that. It's absolutely authoritative and binding. It doesn't

691
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:57,000
have to be infallible. Yes, it is binding. It is

692
00:38:57,199 --> 00:39:00,280
ordinary teaching. Do you know what ordinary teaching is? You

693
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,119
don't even know. There's two different creeds in the church.

694
00:39:02,199 --> 00:39:03,519
Do you know what ordinary teaching is?

695
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 3: What do you mean two different creeds?

696
00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:09,639
Speaker 9: No?

697
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,599
Speaker 2: Earlier, the two different creeds between the West and the East,

698
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,960
the Uniates and the Latin Church. Okay, so what do

699
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,119
you know what ordinary teaching is? Yeah?

700
00:39:21,199 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 3: The ordinary magisterium?

701
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,079
Speaker 2: Right? Do you have to accept that? According to Vatican one?

702
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:33,360
If no, there's no ifs. Do you have to accept this? Okay?

703
00:39:33,599 --> 00:39:35,119
What's the criteria for ordinary?

704
00:39:35,199 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 3: Right?

705
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 2: What's the criteria for it?

706
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 3: I mean, I can't spit it out at the moment.

707
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,559
Speaker 2: It's any time that that the pope is teaching authoritatively

708
00:39:46,199 --> 00:39:48,480
in concert with what the church is always st taught

709
00:39:48,519 --> 00:39:51,400
for the entire church. You have to accept that, and

710
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,840
it's and it's free from error. It is also according

711
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:59,239
to Vatican one under the Petrin kerorism. Vatican Two's documents

712
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,440
listen Attican two's documents are affirmed by the Roman sea

713
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,320
for the entire Church on faith and morals. You are

714
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,079
told in every Catholic church in the world that you

715
00:40:09,119 --> 00:40:11,079
have to accept it, so you do not have the

716
00:40:11,079 --> 00:40:13,239
liberty of rejecting Vatican two. It's false.

717
00:40:14,119 --> 00:40:17,039
Speaker 3: All right, here's the issue. What you just said, it

718
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,920
can't contradict itself.

719
00:40:21,199 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 2: Only if romanicanthalsism is true. I'm arguing that it does contradict.

720
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,320
That's the whole point of why we're having this conversation.

721
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 5: No, but what I'm saying is that if there is

722
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,079
a contradiction, which you're highlighting, and I'm with you on that,

723
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:35,719
then that's the problem.

724
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it means the Roman system is false. It

725
00:40:38,639 --> 00:40:41,639
means the system is false. That's the point.

726
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 3: I don't think.

727
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 2: I'm sorry that you don't see that, because it's a

728
00:40:44,519 --> 00:40:46,000
systemic level refutation.

729
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 5: I get where you're coming from, but I don't think

730
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,000
that you've heard my case on that, and I'm just trying.

731
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 2: To your case was just the wording is sucky, which

732
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,559
I've heard for twenty years.

733
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,039
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I'm just trying to parse out these two issues.

734
00:41:02,159 --> 00:41:05,840
I am perfectly fine to have the conversation that you're

735
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,199
trying to have right now, But we have not addressed

736
00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:11,119
that statement from or I haven't been able for it.

737
00:41:13,159 --> 00:41:20,840
So the way I read that is replace them with

738
00:41:21,159 --> 00:41:23,079
unbaptized individual.

739
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 3: Can an unbaptized individual pray?

740
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,519
Speaker 2: None of that has anything to do with the fact

741
00:41:31,559 --> 00:41:33,599
that it's trying to say they have the faith of Abraham.

742
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,960
That's the problem in the statement. The faith of Abraham

743
00:41:36,119 --> 00:41:37,360
was faith in Christ.

744
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:43,159
Speaker 5: Is a single Muslim representative of the entirety of Islam

745
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:44,000
the religion.

746
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,519
Speaker 2: I don't see how that's relevant because Islam, as a

747
00:41:49,639 --> 00:41:53,360
universal position rejects the Trinity and the deity of Christ.

748
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,760
So it doesn't matter what one Muslim thinks or believed

749
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,079
when the public profession of the religion is that they

750
00:41:59,079 --> 00:42:01,920
are unitarian and they reject the Trinity. In fact, they

751
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,280
believe in putting to death people who believe in the Trinity.

752
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,199
Speaker 3: But this is what I'm trying to say.

753
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:13,039
Speaker 5: If an atheist is unbaptized and praise, is that somehow invalid.

754
00:42:13,079 --> 00:42:14,599
Speaker 3: Can an atheist not pray?

755
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,599
Speaker 2: Praying? And none of that has anything to do with

756
00:42:17,639 --> 00:42:20,840
the public profession of their faith. What the theology is

757
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,920
the public profession of the religion. This is not saying

758
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,159
it's not saying, can God choose to listen to an

759
00:42:27,199 --> 00:42:30,880
individual when they pray. It's saying that Muslims have the

760
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,239
same God as us, and it's just categorically false. They don't.

761
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 5: I totally see where you're coming from, but I think

762
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,239
there's a discontinuity and how you're reading it and how

763
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,880
I'm reading it. I'm reading it from the perspective of

764
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:45,880
they shouldn't.

765
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 2: And all of this begs the questions, and that's the

766
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,960
whole time. And man, I give up, because I'm going

767
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,599
to give you right here. Actually, it's actually five places

768
00:42:54,599 --> 00:42:56,519
that tell you that you have to believe in Vatican two.

769
00:42:57,119 --> 00:43:00,320
All of these are right here underneath my I wrote.

770
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,400
I did a video called was Vatican Two Infallible? If

771
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:08,639
you look up this video, I list five papal documents

772
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,360
underneath that tell you that you have to believe Vatican Two.

773
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,840
So look, I appreciate you coming on, Ryan, it was

774
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,280
good to chat with you. I wish you well. I

775
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,159
just don't buy it, man, And if you want to

776
00:43:18,199 --> 00:43:21,800
reject Vatican two, go for it. But it's not a

777
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:26,719
consistent Romancalthy position to reject something that five papal documents

778
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,119
tell you have to accept. And here they are. The

779
00:43:29,159 --> 00:43:32,559
first one is right here. It's Francis talking about the

780
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,800
dogmatic nature of the reforms of Vatican two. It's his

781
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:40,119
audience that he gave in twenty seventeen. There's the first one.

782
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:42,679
Second one is another.

783
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 3: Speech.

784
00:43:45,199 --> 00:43:48,519
Speaker 2: This one is John the twenty third's opening speech to

785
00:43:48,599 --> 00:43:51,639
the Vatican two, and he says it is an ecumenical

786
00:43:51,679 --> 00:43:55,079
council that is dogmatic and must be accepted. The third

787
00:43:55,119 --> 00:43:59,599
one is this one, which you have to hit translate

788
00:43:59,599 --> 00:44:04,760
into wish. It's only in Italian. It is a discussion

789
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:10,039
from Paul to six I Believe in nineteen seventy six,

790
00:44:10,039 --> 00:44:11,920
where the sixth says that you have to believe it.

791
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,760
It's dogmatic, it's just a trad myth. This is like

792
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,880
they're inventing ways to try to make the system work.

793
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,039
When all you have to do is demonstrate one dogmatic contradiction,

794
00:44:22,159 --> 00:44:25,119
the whole system is false. And it's like Roman Callis

795
00:44:25,159 --> 00:44:29,119
can't conceive of that being a systemic level defeater because

796
00:44:29,159 --> 00:44:30,880
in their mind, you can just keep stacking up more

797
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,760
explanations and more quote evidences. So pious. The eleventh casti Kanoba,

798
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,639
paragraph one oh four This says that you're bound by

799
00:44:37,639 --> 00:44:39,840
more than what is even extraordinary. You have to believe

800
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,400
in whatever the Roman Callloic Church, the Roman Seed teaches,

801
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,559
even if it's ordinary teaching and not ordinary magisterium, even

802
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,840
just the ordinary teaching is supposed to be submitted to

803
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,159
with docility. And the last one is see Deligious of

804
00:44:53,199 --> 00:44:56,679
Pius to twelfth. Obedience is necessary even if you think

805
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,719
the pope is wrong. Do you see this all you

806
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,039
football Roman Catholics See De Legas Pius the tense canonization

807
00:45:05,159 --> 00:45:08,559
by Pius the twelfth. Even if you think the pope

808
00:45:08,639 --> 00:45:13,079
is wrong, you still must submit with docility. That is

809
00:45:13,119 --> 00:45:18,280
what Roman Catholic Vatican want obedience had in mind. So

810
00:45:19,039 --> 00:45:23,119
there's the five things that prove you don't get to

811
00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:26,000
pick and choose and throw out Vatican two. And you

812
00:45:26,079 --> 00:45:28,599
notice he did two things there in that discussion. At

813
00:45:28,599 --> 00:45:31,559
first he says, no, I don't have to accept Vatican two. No,

814
00:45:31,679 --> 00:45:35,000
actually you do. Here's five examples of where you have to. Oh, well,

815
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,360
it's the wording. Which one is it? Do you not

816
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,719
have to accept it or is it just shitty wording?

817
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,719
And by the way, the Roman Sea is supposed to

818
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,719
be there to make it clear and not put us

819
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,440
in this Protestant position of we don't know what it means.

820
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,000
It's ambiguous, it's shitty wording. So everybody should go watch

821
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:56,960
this podcast from twenty twenty where we walk through all

822
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:13,639
of these different documents. Yeah, all right, vain, what's up?

823
00:46:14,199 --> 00:46:16,559
It's it's not uh, I'm not trying to be rude,

824
00:46:16,559 --> 00:46:18,760
but it's not catechist's time. So if you guys have

825
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,599
a question about that stuff, it's not it's not what

826
00:46:22,639 --> 00:46:23,280
we're doing right now.

827
00:46:29,079 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 3: You know, what's up? Change?

828
00:46:32,519 --> 00:46:39,039
Speaker 5: Somebody told me this uh theory they had about like ascaton.

829
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,519
Speaker 12: Theology, that they think that just because a scripture says

830
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,960
that God wills all.

831
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:49,119
Speaker 6: To be saved, that means that everyone will.

832
00:46:49,079 --> 00:46:53,679
Speaker 3: End up, uh, you know, with salvation, and that how.

833
00:46:53,639 --> 00:46:56,800
Speaker 12: This happens is that hell is temporary. In the fires

834
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:00,079
of Hell are there, and.

835
00:47:00,679 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 2: There's no place in the New Testament where Jesus says

836
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,000
anything about it being temporary. In fact, he always speaks

837
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,159
it of us everlasting. So I mean the fact that

838
00:47:08,599 --> 00:47:11,079
God permits something doesn't equate to him willing it. So

839
00:47:11,159 --> 00:47:14,519
God permits death, God permits bad things to happen, doesn't

840
00:47:14,559 --> 00:47:16,159
mean that he wills it happened. So the fact that

841
00:47:16,199 --> 00:47:18,679
he desires all men to be saved does not mean

842
00:47:18,679 --> 00:47:22,320
that he will cause almen to be saved.

843
00:47:23,519 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. I guess I didn't know how to explain it

844
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:26,440
the way he were it.

845
00:47:26,639 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 2: But yeah, thank human, Yeah, no good questions. Appreciate it. Yeah.

846
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:35,880
I think universalism is kind of a It's obviously not

847
00:47:36,039 --> 00:47:39,280
anywhere in the scriptures, so it's really a stretch when

848
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:44,000
people try to argue that B three A K three

849
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,480
MKG hope all as well. What are your arguments against Anglicans.

850
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,000
I mean, we had an Anglican come on a livestream

851
00:47:53,039 --> 00:47:55,519
about a month ago and we had a whole, I

852
00:47:55,559 --> 00:47:57,760
don't know, hour long debate about branch theory. So I

853
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:01,000
would say, look up my argument with the Anglican branch

854
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,320
theory guy. I think that branch theory makes absolutely no

855
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,440
sense in terms of what the Church of the first

856
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,800
thousand years when they said one Holy Catholic Apstolic, nobody

857
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:15,000
thought about that as branch theory. Santo five dollars. Would

858
00:48:15,039 --> 00:48:19,199
you speak on statements of you, Pope Eugene the Fourth,

859
00:48:19,199 --> 00:48:21,159
who said that if you shed your blood for Christ,

860
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,400
even if you're schismatic, you are not saved. I mean, yeah, exactly.

861
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,119
That's like Cantade Domino, I think, is a really clear

862
00:48:28,679 --> 00:48:30,840
statement that there's no such thing in the Roman Catholic

863
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,079
mindset traditionally speaking of there being martyrs outside of communion

864
00:48:34,079 --> 00:48:36,760
with Rome. That's why when I'm saying to them about

865
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,719
a century earlier, says not just that you have to

866
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,320
be in commune with Rome to be saved, you also

867
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,280
have to believe in the pope as the quizas Haderak,

868
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,199
the world emperor to be saved. So pretty clearly the

869
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:52,000
medieval papal mindset did not have the Vatican to atate

870
00:48:53,039 --> 00:48:57,239
Muslims and atheists can be saved in Islam mindset. I

871
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,800
think it's absolutely an obvious contradiction between what Tade Domino

872
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:05,559
says and I mean, but look, you don't get anywhere

873
00:49:05,559 --> 00:49:07,840
pointing this out to the Roman Catholics. I mean, the

874
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:12,000
pillars of Orthodoxy were heretics and schismatics for centuries. Now

875
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,199
they're quote saints and they they don't care. Yeah, so

876
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:16,800
what the pope can do whatever he wants. So, I mean,

877
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,159
you're talking to people who literally believe that. It's like

878
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,760
quantum papacy, that the pope can like retroactively make people

879
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,000
who were heretics for centuries suddenly saints. I mean, these

880
00:49:25,039 --> 00:49:25,880
people are this crazy?

881
00:49:31,559 --> 00:49:44,039
Speaker 13: Manuel Hello, m hm oh, yeah, so I was.

882
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 14: This is my second time here.

883
00:49:48,519 --> 00:49:51,519
Speaker 6: I would like to ask about icons.

884
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 3: Uh.

885
00:49:52,599 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 14: See, I was debating a Muslim, right, I just having

886
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,639
a discussion with a Muslim, and he brings up, like

887
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:03,440
this the objection that in the Old Testament, I think

888
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:07,480
it says that you cannot like bow down to images

889
00:50:07,559 --> 00:50:09,960
and stuff like that, right, So I was asking.

890
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,519
Speaker 2: No, it says to not bow down to idols, because

891
00:50:12,519 --> 00:50:15,800
the Jews bowed down to images, to the Arc, to

892
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,400
the Temple, to other human beings all the time. So

893
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,800
go read my article on icons. It's right, I did

894
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,840
have it up here. But read my article Biblical Defensive

895
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,119
icons and you'll see that. Also Joshua five, it says

896
00:50:29,159 --> 00:50:32,320
that they all Joshua five thirty seven somewhere in there,

897
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,239
So they all prostrated before the Arc of the Covenant.

898
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,559
So I guess they're all idolaters. No, it's saying that

899
00:50:38,599 --> 00:50:41,320
you can't bow down to images. It's not saying you

900
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,880
can't show bodily reverence. To holy things. All right. So

901
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,159
this guy is saying he wants to come on if

902
00:50:47,480 --> 00:51:11,679
if I if he are you there? If he go ahead?

903
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,480
Joshua seven six, Joshua torres close and fell on the

904
00:51:16,519 --> 00:51:18,719
earth on his face before the ark of the Lord

905
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,719
until evening he and all of the elders of Israel.

906
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,559
Excuse me, it's a Joshua seven six, not Joshua five,

907
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:31,320
Joshua seven if he. I'm sorry that you have crazy Internet.

908
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,639
I mean, I don't. I don't know why it's not connecting.

909
00:51:34,079 --> 00:51:36,679
So pop back out and pop back in. I'll go

910
00:51:36,679 --> 00:51:39,760
to you next. Who was raising their hand? It's for

911
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,920
today's for people who disagree. So it's not catechumen day,

912
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:53,199
not being mean to the catechumens. Reality. What's up, Mohan?

913
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:55,800
Did you disagree? I'll go to you next. Go ahead,

914
00:51:57,159 --> 00:52:01,079
I'll go to Ifi and the Mohan reality.

915
00:52:01,119 --> 00:52:01,519
Speaker 3: What something?

916
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 2: All right? We'll go to Ivye Mohan.

917
00:52:24,199 --> 00:52:25,599
Speaker 3: Hello, yep.

918
00:52:26,599 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 15: So I had a question regarding the church and its importance.

919
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,239
My father and my mother have been Protestants for like

920
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:38,239
forty years, and.

921
00:52:40,159 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 6: I can see that there's.

922
00:52:41,159 --> 00:52:45,800
Speaker 15: An issue in Protestantism where they leave out the church

923
00:52:46,199 --> 00:52:52,039
and it becomes irrelevant basically, So I wanted to know, like,

924
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,000
since my parents disagree about the church and its importance, Like,

925
00:52:56,079 --> 00:52:58,679
what's the best argument for why the church needs.

926
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 2: To be Like well, I mean, I mean Jesus says

927
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,239
in the New Testament that the church is his body,

928
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:08,280
it's his kingdom. Paul says, not to forsake the assembling together.

929
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,599
I mean, all those are direct injunctions against people who

930
00:53:11,599 --> 00:53:12,840
would forsake the church.

931
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 15: But what if But what if they're just like two together?

932
00:53:17,039 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 6: Isn't that the church basically.

933
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 2: Well, no, I mean two together is he says, his

934
00:53:22,079 --> 00:53:24,320
presence is amongst them. That doesn't mean that there's not

935
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,320
a liturgical worship service, because you're leaving all the rest

936
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,599
of the New Testament where he says that you also

937
00:53:29,679 --> 00:53:32,320
have to feed and you know, feed on his flesh,

938
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,360
drink his blood, participate in the sacrament. So you don't

939
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,719
take that one passage in isolation from all the other

940
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:38,840
things that we're told to do.

941
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,639
Speaker 15: Okay, So what if you live in a country where

942
00:53:43,679 --> 00:53:46,960
like the churches are controlled by the state and they're

943
00:53:47,079 --> 00:53:51,639
very like infiltrated by progressive ideology and there isn't any

944
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:53,800
like churches basically that you.

945
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,559
Speaker 2: Can go to well, I mean, I mean I would

946
00:53:57,599 --> 00:54:00,440
say you only can go to Orthodox churches to begin with.

947
00:54:00,559 --> 00:54:03,000
So I'm not sure what you mean by infiltrated in

948
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:05,280
what since you mean it? Do you mean like like

949
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:06,800
what kind of a country you're talking about?

950
00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:08,639
Speaker 6: IM?

951
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:12,320
Speaker 3: So like, oh, yeah, it's it's it's pretty bad.

952
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:13,039
Speaker 14: Yeah.

953
00:54:13,079 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 2: I think in those situations, like, you do the best

954
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,159
you can. So it's not like like if you aren't

955
00:54:18,199 --> 00:54:19,920
able to get to a church, I don't think God.

956
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:21,559
God's not going to hold that against you. And it's

957
00:54:21,559 --> 00:54:26,000
not your fault, it's not your you know, yeah, you know,

958
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,599
for example, in Tristan's case, he's eight hours from a

959
00:54:29,639 --> 00:54:32,880
Serbian Orthodox priest and he had to make he did

960
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:36,159
a long distance kind of kisis and then you know,

961
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:38,920
he waited until, you know, six months to where he

962
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,000
was able to take a trip eight hours to get baptized. So,

963
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:44,360
you know, I would say that might be the situation

964
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,719
that people in other countries have to do, and you know,

965
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:48,599
you just you have to do your best, and in

966
00:54:48,599 --> 00:54:51,360
some cases people actually can do better, you know. In

967
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,000
other words, like being alone and trying to be Orthodox

968
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,400
is not literally is not the worst situation in the world,

969
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,559
because if you are at a really horrible Orthodox church,

970
00:55:01,159 --> 00:55:03,679
you would actually be better off being alone. I'm not

971
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:06,840
advocating that. I'm just saying that sometimes God providentially can

972
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,239
put us in those situations and they're actually a blessing

973
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:12,880
in disguise. Not that I'm saying you shouldn't go to church.

974
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,199
I'm just saying that, you know, yeah, I don't. I

975
00:55:16,199 --> 00:55:17,800
don't know what it's like in Denmark. I know it's

976
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,360
pretty bad. I'm sure it's totally cocked and all that,

977
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,159
but yeah it is. Yeah, I mean, just do the

978
00:55:23,159 --> 00:55:25,079
best you can and then, you know, try when you

979
00:55:25,119 --> 00:55:27,800
can go somewhere, visit orthodox church, try to try to

980
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,519
make contact with, you know, a solid priest that's like out,

981
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,920
you know, that's the nearest one to you, and then

982
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:34,880
set up a time when you can be catechized by

983
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,159
him and received. It is what people usually, what people

984
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:44,440
usually do. It's what Tristan did, Graham, what's up. Tristan

985
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:46,719
had to travel by donkey. He had to write a

986
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:50,480
donkey twenty hours across to Ecuador to get to some

987
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:52,559
someplace in New Mexico.

988
00:55:52,639 --> 00:55:59,639
Speaker 6: Go ahead, Hey, so that's just a question.

989
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:05,519
Speaker 16: So what are the main reasons why you don't believe

990
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:07,440
in the theory of evolution?

991
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 2: My reasons are usually typically philosophical. I have read some

992
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:20,679
of the scientific critiques and questions about it. I would say,

993
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:22,320
just off the top of my head, it would be

994
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:28,360
something like, it's not directly observable, there's no evidence, is

995
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,480
not coherent to me, or the arguments have not been

996
00:56:30,519 --> 00:56:33,880
convincing for why I should believe in a transmutation of species.

997
00:56:35,519 --> 00:56:39,360
I think that philosophically the concept makes no sense. So

998
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:40,760
that's my approach to it.

999
00:56:42,159 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 16: Okay, And another question, what is what is your opinion

1000
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:50,639
on I know there's there's a debate in Christianity about

1001
00:56:50,679 --> 00:56:54,039
like how old the Earth is, and they're like young

1002
00:56:54,079 --> 00:56:58,960
Earth people. You take a younger view and is there

1003
00:56:59,000 --> 00:56:59,840
like a is there like.

1004
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 6: A reason for that?

1005
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that divine revelation backs up a youngervie.

1006
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:09,199
I was looking for the best critique I've ever read

1007
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:14,559
of evolutionary theory is actually in a in an odd place,

1008
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,639
and it's about a sixty page critique and it's in

1009
00:57:19,679 --> 00:57:23,199
this book called sort of Nosis. I'm not recommending everything

1010
00:57:23,199 --> 00:57:24,599
in this book because this book has a lot of

1011
00:57:24,679 --> 00:57:26,840
kind of it's a lot of perennialist stuff, so there's

1012
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:30,880
like Sufi texts and arguments and papers in here. But

1013
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,079
there is a really excellent chapter in this book, sort

1014
00:57:33,119 --> 00:57:37,360
of Nosis by Titus Brookhart, and it's about a fifty

1015
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:42,159
to sixty page chapter critique of the philosophy evolution. That's

1016
00:57:42,199 --> 00:57:45,480
one of the best things I've ever read on on y.

1017
00:57:45,559 --> 00:57:47,480
So I would say my arguments would come from this.

1018
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,960
And there's another book that Wolfgang Smith wrote that I

1019
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,760
read many years ago, Cosmos and Transcendence. I think that's

1020
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,719
a pretty good critique of the kind of the metaphysics

1021
00:57:57,719 --> 00:58:01,239
and the philosophy of our one series. So that's where

1022
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:05,559
I would be coming from. Axel, what's up? Axel? Ron?

1023
00:58:05,639 --> 00:58:21,719
Excuse me? I'm sorry if he's internet wouldn't connect. I

1024
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:23,599
was trying to bring him in here. I tried twice,

1025
00:58:23,679 --> 00:58:30,400
so I don't know. Got a mute axe Axel Axel Lottle?

1026
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 3: Was that man?

1027
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:34,239
Speaker 6: It's accel On? Yeah, Hey a man, how are you first?

1028
00:58:34,599 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 2: Good? I was just making a joke.

1029
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 6: Okay, there's no problem with that. I do have a

1030
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:40,639
pot amount of question for you.

1031
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 17: But first of all, I want to talk about about

1032
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:44,559
the mark lam in twenty four.

1033
00:58:45,159 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 3: The way it says, what Mark markulem in twenty four.

1034
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 6: It's in the Bible.

1035
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 2: You're just talking really fast, man, slow down.

1036
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 6: Okay, I'm so sorry. Uh Okay.

1037
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 17: It says, therefore, I tell you whatever you ask for

1038
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:59,440
in prayer, plus that you're receiving it and then and

1039
00:58:59,519 --> 00:59:00,320
it will be yours.

1040
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:06,039
Speaker 6: Okay. So okay, let's just imagine you're praying. Okay, you're

1041
00:59:06,039 --> 00:59:06,760
praying to God and.

1042
00:59:06,719 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 17: You ask God uh to make you super comfortable person.

1043
00:59:11,159 --> 00:59:14,719
Speaker 6: Okay, what then to make you a comfortable person? To

1044
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:15,559
make you super.

1045
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:19,159
Speaker 2: Comfortable comfortable person? What does that? What does that mean?

1046
00:59:20,599 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 6: Everybody? Everybody needs to be everybody needs to.

1047
00:59:22,719 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 17: Feed comfortable person because of because of the thinking process

1048
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:27,440
all the time.

1049
00:59:28,639 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 2: So like, God, give me a giant swede couch and

1050
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,199
give me a bunch of puffy coats, like Kanye like comfortable.

1051
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:38,239
What are you're talking about?

1052
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:39,519
Speaker 6: It's about the feeling.

1053
00:59:39,519 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 17: It's about the feeling process that the process of being

1054
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:42,880
calm and comfortable.

1055
00:59:43,199 --> 00:59:47,519
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, God, make me comfortable. Go ahead, make me cozy, baby.

1056
00:59:47,559 --> 00:59:48,000
What's up?

1057
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 6: You don't you don't believe God is gonna provide you with.

1058
00:59:51,519 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 2: I just think that the phraseology is funny.

1059
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 6: Man, go ahead, okay, okay, okay.

1060
00:59:57,159 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 17: So according to the first that the first that God

1061
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:02,360
is to provide you with that one. Another question is

1062
01:00:02,519 --> 01:00:04,719
if you if you asked, if you ask him for

1063
01:00:05,039 --> 01:00:07,400
there has to be some thoughts and the thoughts must

1064
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,360
be a tit sue to the feelings.

1065
01:00:10,559 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 6: But if you ask, if you.

1066
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:14,519
Speaker 17: Ask him, how he's going to create that if you haven't,

1067
01:00:14,559 --> 01:00:17,320
even if you haven't even created a thought, and by

1068
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:19,000
creating a poults you have to communicate with.

1069
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 2: No idea what you're talking about. Man, I'm sorry, I'm lost, dude.

1070
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:23,599
I just I'm out out to lunch on this, have

1071
01:00:23,639 --> 01:00:26,719
no idea what you're talking about. God made me comfortable.

1072
01:00:28,199 --> 01:00:30,679
It needs to be that Boomer prayer, like the footprints

1073
01:00:30,719 --> 01:00:35,159
prayer on the wall, Like God give me no of

1074
01:00:35,159 --> 01:00:38,679
the AA prayer. God give me the serenity to accept

1075
01:00:38,679 --> 01:00:41,639
the things I can't change. God give me the comfort

1076
01:00:42,239 --> 01:00:45,119
to have a mushy couch that I can stretch out

1077
01:00:45,159 --> 01:00:51,679
upon and the feather boa that I can dance for

1078
01:00:52,559 --> 01:00:57,400
my only fans on with my fluffy feather boa. That's

1079
01:00:57,440 --> 01:00:59,360
comfortable and sexy. What's up?

1080
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:02,119
Speaker 6: Man, Hey, Jay, what's up?

1081
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 2: Trying to get comfortable?

1082
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:04,639
Speaker 3: Man?

1083
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:10,119
Speaker 2: Can I ask you a question about God? Give me

1084
01:01:10,159 --> 01:01:11,079
a bean bag?

1085
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:12,119
Speaker 3: God?

1086
01:01:12,199 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 2: Give me a mess, a mess being back actually a mess.

1087
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,400
Being back does not sound comfortable. Give me a burl.

1088
01:01:17,679 --> 01:01:21,239
Give me a burl that being back? Give me a question? Now,

1089
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:21,719
what's up?

1090
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:23,079
Speaker 6: Okay?

1091
01:01:23,159 --> 01:01:26,559
Speaker 18: So, like if you go to Genesis twenty seven twenty eight,

1092
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:32,320
when Isaac is giving Jacob the blessing, you know, like

1093
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:35,599
he says, may God give you the doo of heaven.

1094
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:39,159
Speaker 6: And stuff like I you kind of see a parallel with.

1095
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 18: That and Luke twenty two thirty two when like Jesus

1096
01:01:44,639 --> 01:01:49,559
praised upon Peter that his faith may not fail, And

1097
01:01:49,639 --> 01:01:54,679
like I was just wondering, is this completely completely idiotic

1098
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:56,440
or is there like an actual I.

1099
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:58,639
Speaker 2: Mean, did his face faith? Did his faith fail when

1100
01:01:58,639 --> 01:02:05,320
he gets rebuked by Paul not too long after that? Yeah,

1101
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:09,039
like I guess, yeah, I would, I would. I mean

1102
01:02:09,119 --> 01:02:12,480
Roman Cavolks love to do this kind of retroactive typology

1103
01:02:12,559 --> 01:02:15,119
where I'm not faulting you, I mean understand what you're

1104
01:02:15,159 --> 01:02:16,760
where you're going with this, where they like go back

1105
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:19,480
into the Old Testament anything that that's like a typology

1106
01:02:19,559 --> 01:02:22,840
of the bishopric or the patriarchs or the high priest.

1107
01:02:23,239 --> 01:02:26,079
Suddenly that's all transferred to the pope, and I just think, oh,

1108
01:02:26,079 --> 01:02:29,519
that's kind of ridiculous. The promise is a it is

1109
01:02:29,559 --> 01:02:33,840
applicable to the bishopric, but there's no argumentation where that

1110
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:39,199
suddenly makes, you know, Rome like some kind of super bishop. Yeah, man,

1111
01:02:39,239 --> 01:02:43,559
what's up? I want to get I'm asking God to

1112
01:02:43,599 --> 01:02:46,320
make me comfortable. So I think I need one of

1113
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:50,199
these puffy yay coats, any one of these Balentiaga puffy

1114
01:02:50,199 --> 01:02:52,239
coats or else I'm not gonna be comfortable. And if

1115
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:54,920
I don't get it for Christmas, I'm gonna be a atheist.

1116
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:59,920
If God does not answer my demands for comfort and style,

1117
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,320
well then I'm suddenly going to be atheist. What's up?

1118
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:07,519
Speaker 3: Man? Uh? Hi? So I have a question, ma'am?

1119
01:03:07,639 --> 01:03:08,199
Speaker 2: Excuse me?

1120
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:10,599
Speaker 3: Is it?

1121
01:03:10,679 --> 01:03:11,119
Speaker 6: Sorry?

1122
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 2: No, I'm saying I said, what's up? Man, and you're

1123
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:15,679
a mam, and so I'm saying, excuse me, ma'am.

1124
01:03:16,079 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 6: I'm sorry. I don't know. Anyways, I have a question.

1125
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:24,719
Speaker 19: So Phil Helper just came out and said that there

1126
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,800
is a study coming out saying that physicists are changing

1127
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:29,400
their mind on the Big Bang theory.

1128
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:32,039
Speaker 6: If it is the.

1129
01:03:31,159 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 19: Origin of the universe, what does this mean for Christianity?

1130
01:03:34,159 --> 01:03:37,119
Is it a net positive as it could disprove the

1131
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:42,639
ever expanding universe, or does it disprove the something from nothing,

1132
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:46,360
which would be a negative for Christianity.

1133
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:49,559
Speaker 2: I don't know who Phil Helper is. I'm not deal

1134
01:03:49,599 --> 01:03:52,880
with it. I mean, I don't pay any attention to

1135
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:56,639
normy science, and like my religious convictions have nothing to

1136
01:03:56,679 --> 01:03:59,679
do with what any science paper says.

1137
01:04:03,199 --> 01:04:06,039
Speaker 19: Okay, so you don't think that if say, the Big

1138
01:04:06,039 --> 01:04:10,079
Bang theory were to be disproven, if that would, like

1139
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:13,039
you don't know if it would be a positive or

1140
01:04:13,079 --> 01:04:14,920
a negative thing for christian I mean, I.

1141
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:18,119
Speaker 2: Think the Big Bang itself is dumb and stupid and

1142
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:22,599
doesn't make any sense philosophically. So if it was quote disproven,

1143
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:27,239
that would just be people realizing that their existing atheist

1144
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:29,920
metaphysics and system is stupid. So yeah, it would be

1145
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:30,400
a positive.

1146
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:33,559
Speaker 19: Okay, So you just think the Big Bang itself is

1147
01:04:33,719 --> 01:04:34,239
just silly.

1148
01:04:34,719 --> 01:04:42,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like atheist to magic magic theory for atheism. Yeah, okay, yeah,

1149
01:04:42,639 --> 01:04:45,079
interesting questions. I didn't know about any of that, but

1150
01:04:45,559 --> 01:04:48,039
I mean, the thing with like normy science papers is

1151
01:04:48,119 --> 01:04:51,119
like literally every day there's a paper that says the

1152
01:04:51,119 --> 01:04:55,280
opposite of what the papers said the day before, so

1153
01:04:55,639 --> 01:04:57,960
I'll never forget. Like when I was scrolling on Facebook

1154
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,440
one time, literally within like the aim feed next to

1155
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:06,119
each other was a you know ifing love science black

1156
01:05:06,159 --> 01:05:10,159
holes proven with absolute certitude, and right underneath it was

1157
01:05:10,199 --> 01:05:14,679
another article from like the same website, Science finally debunks.

1158
01:05:14,239 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 7: The existance of black holes.

1159
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, it's actually all sci fi, Like all

1160
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:23,800
these people are doing sci fi all right, Josh, I'm

1161
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:29,440
kind of wearing down now. Icono Matt, twenty dollars, can

1162
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:31,719
you prove with twenty dollars? Here's the twenty dollars, can

1163
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,719
you prove that you're not a plant from the Funko

1164
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:39,639
Pop Corporation to sell Funko pops? I cannot prove that. However,

1165
01:05:40,119 --> 01:05:42,480
when I do my live events, well, at least the

1166
01:05:42,519 --> 01:05:45,320
first year we did seven live events or so, every

1167
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:49,239
live event ended with a Funko Pop getting smashed. So

1168
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:53,400
you tell me if that's funk Go apologetics or if

1169
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:59,039
that's destroying, if that's iconoclasm against funk Go pops. You

1170
01:05:59,079 --> 01:06:01,719
tell me Banian do done eight one dollars based on

1171
01:06:01,719 --> 01:06:04,599
your research? Is there any evidence that the US government

1172
01:06:04,719 --> 01:06:06,400
is reverse engineering alien tech?

1173
01:06:07,039 --> 01:06:07,239
Speaker 3: No?

1174
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 2: I would side on the side of that being a

1175
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:14,679
bunch of tarted psy ops. Guy has ten dollars, Greting,

1176
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:16,559
thank you. What is the single book that you would

1177
01:06:16,559 --> 01:06:20,639
recommend on the errors of reformed theology and Protestism? I

1178
01:06:20,639 --> 01:06:26,639
guess everybody likes Rock and Sand by Father Josiah a

1179
01:06:26,719 --> 01:06:30,800
single best book. I mean, I guess that would be

1180
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:31,719
the single best book.

1181
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 3: I mean.

1182
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:37,559
Speaker 2: Clark Carlton. His set is also good. Doctor Clark Carlton

1183
01:06:37,599 --> 01:06:44,280
has a good set. H Brosey ten dollars. What's up?

1184
01:06:44,679 --> 01:06:48,320
I am Hazony Armstrong. My phone keeps freezing. It dropped

1185
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:53,679
me add me back. Okay, I don't see you on here, dude.

1186
01:06:53,679 --> 01:07:00,000
You must have left or did we already go to you?

1187
01:07:02,119 --> 01:07:04,800
I don't see it, man. Thank you for the super

1188
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:10,960
chat though. Charles Charles in charge of our lives and

1189
01:07:11,199 --> 01:07:13,679
our dreams. I don't even know if that's how it goes.

1190
01:07:13,679 --> 01:07:16,159
I never watched Charles in George. Go ahead, Charles, I'm mute,

1191
01:07:17,679 --> 01:07:20,559
You're in charge. I'm ute, Charles, You're in charge. Charles

1192
01:07:20,559 --> 01:07:25,960
is in charge. I'm mute, Charles in charge?

1193
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,159
Speaker 3: Can you hear me now? Yes, sir, I never watched

1194
01:07:30,159 --> 01:07:30,880
that show either.

1195
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:35,559
Speaker 2: What's on your mind? Well, you could still be in charge.

1196
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:39,079
Speaker 20: I was gonna ask you about open theism, and now

1197
01:07:39,119 --> 01:07:44,159
there's a rising army of guys online who are attacking

1198
01:07:44,199 --> 01:07:48,239
Calvinism through that, and I just wondered, what is that

1199
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:51,280
similar to an ancient heresy that the ecumenical councils have

1200
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:55,639
already repudiated, or what's your orthodox response to that God

1201
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:58,880
changes open theism?

1202
01:07:59,559 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 2: No, I don't think there's any evidence in the ancient

1203
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:08,440
Church or the Bible or theology to support the idea

1204
01:08:08,519 --> 01:08:12,199
that God changes, because we actually confess in the liturgy

1205
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:16,960
that he became man yet underwent no change. So Christ

1206
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:21,960
did not substantially or essentially undergo any change. He changed

1207
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:24,000
in the sense that he entered into a new motive

1208
01:08:24,039 --> 01:08:26,560
being and that he became man, but he did not

1209
01:08:27,079 --> 01:08:29,840
cease to be God. And in fact, Philippians too, in

1210
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:35,520
the Kenosis passage, specifically states that he just simply willed

1211
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,800
to not exercise all of his powers when he became man.

1212
01:08:39,199 --> 01:08:41,840
He didn't cease to have those powers or cease to

1213
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,119
be divine or cease to be omnission or anything like that.

1214
01:08:44,199 --> 01:08:48,000
But he didn't do everything he could do when he

1215
01:08:48,039 --> 01:08:50,039
became man, and he didn't even do everything he could

1216
01:08:50,079 --> 01:08:51,680
do when he created the world, because he could have

1217
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:54,760
created multiple worlds, he could have created a totally different world.

1218
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,079
And so there is potentia in God in the Orthodox position,

1219
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:00,199
because God has free will, and that's something I think

1220
01:09:00,279 --> 01:09:02,920
very different from the other positions out there, like the

1221
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:08,079
Roman Catholic position that literally reduce God to pure actuality

1222
01:09:08,119 --> 01:09:13,359
with absolutely no potentiality. So no, I don't think there's

1223
01:09:13,399 --> 01:09:17,000
any basis in scripture vine revelation to believe that God

1224
01:09:17,239 --> 01:09:19,800
has to update his knowledge or that he undergoes change,

1225
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:23,399
or that he doesn't have omniscients. Typically those debates are

1226
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:28,680
intended on reconciling you know, free will and divine sovereignty

1227
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:32,840
with human you know choice, or some way to try

1228
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:37,560
to mitigate hell or the afterlife or whatever. And I

1229
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:43,079
think those they're all failed projects because Vine revelation is

1230
01:09:43,159 --> 01:09:45,359
what's preserved in the Orthodox Church, so there can't be

1231
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:47,600
there's not going to be some new revelation or some

1232
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:50,640
new theology that emerges. So by default we would reject

1233
01:09:51,039 --> 01:09:54,239
anything that isn't Orthodox, and I mean all the Orthodox

1234
01:09:54,279 --> 01:09:57,079
Church rathers teach that God's omniscient. But we do believe

1235
01:09:57,079 --> 01:09:59,960
that God created a world where there are second causes.

1236
01:10:00,119 --> 01:10:02,399
John Damascus talks about this, and on the Orthodox Faith

1237
01:10:02,399 --> 01:10:05,159
there's ald section where he says there are secondary causes.

1238
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:08,760
But I think that typically the debate between the Calvinists

1239
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:12,039
and open theist is framed as if either God is

1240
01:10:12,039 --> 01:10:16,640
the direct decree cause of everything, or he's not and

1241
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:22,840
therefore no omniscient, and Orthodoxy would avoid both of those positions.

1242
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:26,319
Speaker 20: Right, Yeah, I haven't really heard them address the incarnation,

1243
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:30,680
but all the scriptures talking about God be pented and

1244
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:31,119
so on.

1245
01:10:32,119 --> 01:10:34,159
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I would agree with the argument that

1246
01:10:34,159 --> 01:10:38,560
that's anthropomorphic language and so God is condescending to It's

1247
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:41,479
the similar if you read doctor Bradshaw's paper that he

1248
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:46,640
writes it's in the Newer Energies book. I forget the

1249
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:48,039
name of the paper. I think it's the one on

1250
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:50,760
essence energy, what kind of distinction. It's the first chapter

1251
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:56,800
in that book. He talks about the reciprocal relationship through prayer. So,

1252
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:01,199
for example, if God answers man's prayer, does that mean

1253
01:11:01,239 --> 01:11:03,960
God changes because didn't God already know what you were

1254
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:07,680
going to pray? Well, the answer to this objection is that, yeah,

1255
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:12,079
God knew. But God also, because he loves man, condescends

1256
01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:16,920
and wills to interact and respond to men. And this

1257
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:20,079
is the point that's missed, is that because God has

1258
01:11:20,159 --> 01:11:23,079
the ability to act freely, because he has free will,

1259
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:30,039
he can choose to reciprocate the relationship with man. So,

1260
01:11:30,119 --> 01:11:32,840
for example, in the Book of Amos, God says, had

1261
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:35,680
you not prayed, I would have destroyed Israel. Right, But

1262
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:38,479
he says, you prayed, so I'm gonna withhold my judgment.

1263
01:11:39,199 --> 01:11:44,479
That means then that God willed to have that reciprocal relationship.

1264
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:46,800
You say, so, he didn't have to do that. He

1265
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:50,600
didn't have to become incarnate. But he does these things

1266
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:53,439
because he truly is a loving God and truly does

1267
01:11:53,520 --> 01:12:04,520
love mankind. Bub God, give me the comfort to accept

1268
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:07,439
the Kanye coat that I do not have. Give me

1269
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:12,840
the peace of mind to become a suede being bag

1270
01:12:13,399 --> 01:12:15,960
that I am not from nineteen ninety eight. Give me

1271
01:12:16,079 --> 01:12:23,039
the what's up, bub Hi Jay? How you doing good?

1272
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 6: Okay?

1273
01:12:25,119 --> 01:12:25,720
Speaker 20: So Eler.

1274
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:29,079
Speaker 21: Today I was debating a Baptist pastor.

1275
01:12:29,119 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 3: And I will say one second. My first of all

1276
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:32,600
was assuming he was part of forma theology.

1277
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:33,039
Speaker 2: He wasn't.

1278
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:34,680
Speaker 6: But at one point I.

1279
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:37,199
Speaker 21: Asked him if me and him had a disagreement on

1280
01:12:37,239 --> 01:12:41,039
the interpretation of a verse, I asked him, how could

1281
01:12:41,039 --> 01:12:45,479
you possibly really know who is riot? And he said faith,

1282
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:47,840
And at least to me, that kind of that answer

1283
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:49,960
made me kind of it kind of felt lacking.

1284
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:56,560
Speaker 2: Well, I mean again, I don't think that the difference

1285
01:12:56,600 --> 01:13:00,640
between it's it's there's two different things going on here.

1286
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:03,520
One is is there a way to adjudicate or have

1287
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:07,319
authority to say which position's right? That's normative authority? Did

1288
01:13:07,399 --> 01:13:11,119
Jesus give the church any body of people to bind

1289
01:13:11,279 --> 01:13:14,640
consciousness to an interpretation? And there's a separate question, which

1290
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:18,479
is individual existential certitude? How do I get certainty? So

1291
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:21,199
on one level, he's kind of right that we're all

1292
01:13:21,319 --> 01:13:24,119
kind of going to rely on the Holy Spirit leading

1293
01:13:24,159 --> 01:13:27,920
and guiding us directly to no truth. So there's not

1294
01:13:28,039 --> 01:13:30,359
really a problem with that because everybody's in that boat.

1295
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:32,520
I mean, if you are a papist, you're going to

1296
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:34,720
have to trust that the Holy Spirit's leading you to

1297
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:37,800
interpret the papal documents. If you're Orthodox, you're gonna have

1298
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:40,199
to trust that the Holy Spirit's leading you to accurately

1299
01:13:40,319 --> 01:13:44,239
understand Orthodox theology and the councils and the church fathers

1300
01:13:44,239 --> 01:13:46,680
and all this whatever. If you're Protestant, you've got to

1301
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:49,319
trust the Holy Spirit's leading you in interpreting the scriptures.

1302
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:51,520
So two different things are going on, and I would

1303
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:55,359
just say that it's one level that's true, But like

1304
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:59,119
you know, I would reframe the question to say, well,

1305
01:13:59,359 --> 01:14:02,079
don't you think Jesus might have set up some body

1306
01:14:02,119 --> 01:14:06,159
of people to govern the church and to make decisions

1307
01:14:06,199 --> 01:14:09,399
about what the interpretations are. I mean, he says, you know,

1308
01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:12,039
and Acts two and then John sixteen that he would

1309
01:14:12,039 --> 01:14:14,000
provide the church with the spirit to lead it and

1310
01:14:14,039 --> 01:14:17,520
guide it. So did that leave in the early church?

1311
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:18,960
I mean, like what happened?

1312
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:23,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, and then let's see what elles.

1313
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:27,239
Speaker 21: So I also asked him about one save always saved,

1314
01:14:27,239 --> 01:14:28,479
and he said he doesn't really agree with that.

1315
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:30,560
Speaker 6: He says he believes I either.

1316
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:33,199
Speaker 21: Saved or that you were not saved, And at least

1317
01:14:33,199 --> 01:14:35,039
to me, I didn't quite know how to respond to that.

1318
01:14:35,199 --> 01:14:37,159
Speaker 3: So what would you really have to say about that?

1319
01:14:37,239 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 2: I mean, there's just so many passages in the New Testament,

1320
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:42,640
like Hebrew six or you know, the Parable of the Sower,

1321
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:46,439
where you have explicit statements of new life springing up

1322
01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:48,560
in the case of the sewer, or in Hebrew six,

1323
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:51,319
where you have you were, you know, washed in the

1324
01:14:51,439 --> 01:14:53,840
in the in region. You know, the baptism, you were,

1325
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:56,119
you partake of, you ate of the heavenly gift, and

1326
01:14:56,159 --> 01:14:59,119
so forth, which clearly means that they were partaking of

1327
01:14:59,119 --> 01:15:02,039
grace in some sense. You have, Paul, you know, warning

1328
01:15:02,119 --> 01:15:04,319
the Romans, the Church at Rome, that they can be

1329
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:09,079
grafted out and rejected. And if there's no real warning,

1330
01:15:09,159 --> 01:15:13,039
then all these warnings really just make no sense. So Matt,

1331
01:15:13,119 --> 01:15:15,840
p we've got a couple more than We're going to

1332
01:15:16,199 --> 01:15:20,239
call it a night, Comfy funk go pop one dollar day.

1333
01:15:20,239 --> 01:15:21,960
I understand the Orthodox if you have being the one

1334
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:24,760
true Church, the Protestants and Catholics are they can they

1335
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:29,000
also be saved. Well, we're not told what other people's

1336
01:15:29,319 --> 01:15:33,079
eternal destinies are. So if God has God has means

1337
01:15:33,079 --> 01:15:35,920
by which he can unite people to the mystical body

1338
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:39,159
of Christ. But I mean, he doesn't tell us how

1339
01:15:39,199 --> 01:15:41,840
that happens. He doesn't say, like, yeah, the thief on

1340
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:44,720
the cross was a unique odd case, but I wouldn't

1341
01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:47,279
rely on unique odd cases, you know what I mean? Like,

1342
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:50,560
there's one arc that is the Church. You've seen that

1343
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:53,359
icon of the of the church as an arc. I mean,

1344
01:15:54,079 --> 01:15:57,800
that's the arc. So you know what chance do you

1345
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:02,840
stand floating outside the ark? Right? And can God, in

1346
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:06,720
a way known to him, unite somebody to the arc

1347
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:10,119
as possible? So and I'm not told the destiny of

1348
01:16:10,279 --> 01:16:13,000
Protestants and Roman Catholics and all that. We're not even

1349
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:14,640
told the destiny of the people in the church, So

1350
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:16,279
how am I? I can't senter and judge people on

1351
01:16:16,279 --> 01:16:21,640
an individual basis. But we are told that the public

1352
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:28,039
confessions that Protestants and Catholics have is false. So in

1353
01:16:28,039 --> 01:16:30,520
that sense we can say that you have a false faith,

1354
01:16:31,159 --> 01:16:33,680
you must come into the church to be saved. So

1355
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:36,479
if they choose not to, Paul says, what have I

1356
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:39,119
to do with judging those that are without well emmanual

1357
01:16:39,119 --> 01:16:42,119
ten dollars? Would it help to get Roman Catholics to

1358
01:16:42,159 --> 01:16:46,479
point to an infallible dogma, then get them to compare

1359
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:50,439
their arbitrary standards to determine when it happens and when

1360
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:52,680
it doesn't have it. Yes, absolutely, I have done that

1361
01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:55,720
many times. For example, what does X have to do?

1362
01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:59,840
What does the infallible document X have that bat A

1363
01:17:00,159 --> 01:17:04,920
two doesn't have If Vatican two is quote not infallible. Yeah,

1364
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,960
I think it is. Uh that always shifts over into

1365
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:10,680
the epistemology domain, which I'm happy to do. I'd love

1366
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:14,039
to do that. But I mean, I'm not trying to

1367
01:17:14,039 --> 01:17:16,079
be rude, but like when we start going to apistemology,

1368
01:17:16,199 --> 01:17:18,880
the Romachalics are out, they don't know, they're out to lunch.

1369
01:17:19,039 --> 01:17:21,840
So but maybe it is time to just go straight

1370
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:26,760
up to like look by the way again. If Romacantholicism

1371
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:30,119
is the case, why doesn't the papacy just give us

1372
01:17:30,199 --> 01:17:33,600
an ex cathedral list of the ex cathedral doctrines. That

1373
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:36,199
would make it so much clearer, It make everything so easy.

1374
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:39,600
Why don't they just do that? I mean, it's not Denzinger.

1375
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:42,800
Denzinger is not an ex cathedral book. That's just a

1376
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:47,920
book by some priest who collected together dogmatic statements which

1377
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:51,359
Rome cites. The Vatican cites Denzinger, but Denzinger is not

1378
01:17:51,399 --> 01:17:56,479
He's just some priests, he's not infallible. But for that

1379
01:17:56,640 --> 01:17:59,439
system to work, if it was consistent, they would give

1380
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:02,640
us and fallible list of the infallible dogmas, and everything

1381
01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:05,439
would supposedly be clearer, wouldn't it. I mean, you still

1382
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:07,039
have people debating, but it would least be a little

1383
01:18:07,039 --> 01:18:10,600
bit clearer. Why don't they just do that instead? What

1384
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:15,319
you get is, here's three general criteria of levels of

1385
01:18:15,359 --> 01:18:17,199
dogma and good luck with that.

1386
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:23,159
Speaker 3: Good luck? Go ahead, Jay, can you hear me?

1387
01:18:23,399 --> 01:18:23,680
Speaker 2: Yep?

1388
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 6: Okay, Jay, this is Matt.

1389
01:18:26,319 --> 01:18:27,920
Speaker 22: And first of all, I wanted to tell you I

1390
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:31,920
find you fascinating because of your journey into Orthodoxy from Calvini.

1391
01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:34,479
Speaker 2: Yes, I remember you've called in before. I remember how

1392
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:34,840
you doing?

1393
01:18:35,079 --> 01:18:40,359
Speaker 22: Okay, Well, anyway, I wanted to do the fellow, the

1394
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:43,199
Roman Catholic that you were just talking to. And this

1395
01:18:43,279 --> 01:18:45,960
is something that hasn't changed. I've been debating them for

1396
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:49,560
fifty years, but they're all the same in that regard.

1397
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:55,000
It's just meant justify the Pope's position and Catholicism.

1398
01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:57,479
Speaker 2: You cut out it's what in their claims.

1399
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:01,439
Speaker 3: It's mental manipulation. It was like back and forth.

1400
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:04,960
Speaker 22: Now if they can't see when you have a pope

1401
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:07,520
France is saying that Hindu has worshiped the same God

1402
01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:10,640
in Jews and Muslims. That that's outright apostle to see

1403
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:13,880
it in your face, I don't know what to say

1404
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:15,520
at that point. Now, this has been going on for

1405
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:18,600
some years with ecuminism and that sort of thing.

1406
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:20,800
Speaker 3: Having said that.

1407
01:19:21,119 --> 01:19:23,399
Speaker 22: They're never at peace because and I talked to you

1408
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:25,760
about and I want to mention this a bit further

1409
01:19:26,159 --> 01:19:31,079
asceticism and academia, but if you go into a full

1410
01:19:31,079 --> 01:19:36,399
blown academia, you end up come unto me.

1411
01:19:37,319 --> 01:19:38,800
Speaker 3: My yoak is easy and.

1412
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:39,640
Speaker 22: My burden is light.

1413
01:19:40,319 --> 01:19:43,119
Speaker 3: Their burden is not light, and their yolk is not easy.

1414
01:19:43,279 --> 01:19:45,720
Speaker 22: Right now, the Orthodox Church is the Church of Christ

1415
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:48,359
with the body of Christ. So they're in a place

1416
01:19:48,399 --> 01:19:50,600
that's not the body of Christ, and it's right in

1417
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:55,680
their face, and for some reason it's very difficult for

1418
01:19:55,720 --> 01:19:57,239
them to get out of it. The only thing I

1419
01:19:57,239 --> 01:20:00,760
could say is it's a pernicious heresy is saying A says,

1420
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:03,520
and they're blinded by that pernicious heresy.

1421
01:20:04,279 --> 01:20:06,800
Speaker 3: Having said that, Jame, I have a question.

1422
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:08,800
Speaker 22: For you, because it bothered me for some years, and

1423
01:20:09,039 --> 01:20:11,359
you've been through the Ringers. So you're going to understand

1424
01:20:11,399 --> 01:20:13,439
what I'm talking about coming from academia.

1425
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:15,840
Speaker 3: What a new term.

1426
01:20:16,119 --> 01:20:21,479
Speaker 22: Something that we frequently hear these days is an Orthodox person.

1427
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:24,520
Speaker 3: Even preachs and bishops, they'll.

1428
01:20:24,359 --> 01:20:30,520
Speaker 22: Refer to heretics, Mormons, Jehovah witnessed, Catholics, Protestants. They'll say, well,

1429
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:35,119
because they're learning it, they're er addition, they'll say the

1430
01:20:35,199 --> 01:20:40,000
Roman Catholic theologian. I've even heard the Mormon theologian. This

1431
01:20:40,039 --> 01:20:43,279
is so far from the ethos of the church fathers

1432
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:47,800
who came out explicitly and call them heretics, saying aaronais

1433
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:50,399
didn't say against all the Gnostic groups. By the way,

1434
01:20:50,479 --> 01:20:53,560
I've come to the conclusion they were Roman Catholicism is

1435
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:58,319
narcissism with all of their secrets, and it's just another

1436
01:20:58,399 --> 01:21:03,039
passion of intrigue can just like go constantly in some direction.

1437
01:21:03,399 --> 01:21:04,720
Speaker 3: So my question too, is this.

1438
01:21:06,399 --> 01:21:09,359
Speaker 22: That came into the Orthodox Church, the idea that these

1439
01:21:09,399 --> 01:21:14,000
heretical groups are. You know, somebody speaks and they're considered

1440
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:16,920
to be a theologian. My question too, is do you

1441
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:18,279
find it to be problematic?

1442
01:21:20,279 --> 01:21:22,279
Speaker 2: I see your point. I mean, I think it's just

1443
01:21:22,319 --> 01:21:27,840
more of a colloquial usage. I mean, I know that

1444
01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:30,159
in our sense, we would say a theologian is, you know,

1445
01:21:30,239 --> 01:21:32,399
one who praise and one who has Orthodox faith and

1446
01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:34,760
all that. So I think we're really just kind of

1447
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:38,399
interacting with and talking to people in the world and

1448
01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:43,279
outside the church that have this terminology. So even though

1449
01:21:43,319 --> 01:21:46,840
it's not strictly correct, I don't think everybody's using it

1450
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:49,800
in an inappropriate way intentionally.

1451
01:21:50,039 --> 01:21:53,840
Speaker 22: But I see your point, okay, because so because I

1452
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:56,760
see it as part of ecuminism, be nice. So you

1453
01:21:56,840 --> 01:22:01,560
have to approach them in a nice way. And I

1454
01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:06,279
can just tell you monks have known and bishops even

1455
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:08,520
that are ascetics.

1456
01:22:08,800 --> 01:22:10,520
Speaker 3: They're not into that nice thing. They're more or.

1457
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:13,279
Speaker 6: Less straightened out. Yeah, that's for your sake.

1458
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:17,560
Speaker 22: So I think it's detrimental in that regard.

1459
01:22:18,039 --> 01:22:19,520
Speaker 3: Can you explain to me, because you were a.

1460
01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:25,520
Speaker 22: Trade cat, how how the apostlesia Muslims are the same

1461
01:22:26,279 --> 01:22:30,399
blah blah blah, How can't they see that?

1462
01:22:30,479 --> 01:22:30,720
Speaker 3: Jake?

1463
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:35,640
Speaker 2: Well, for me as a trad cat, that's exactly the

1464
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:38,600
thing that led me to more and more kind of

1465
01:22:38,680 --> 01:22:43,399
sparse fringe traditionalism was that in two thousand and three

1466
01:22:43,439 --> 01:22:48,079
when I became Catholic, I kind of thought and assumed

1467
01:22:48,079 --> 01:22:50,359
that the Romancolic Church would be kind of like what

1468
01:22:50,439 --> 01:22:52,800
I read in the Church Fathers. And then when you

1469
01:22:52,840 --> 01:22:55,399
go to the actual Romancolic churches and it's really divorced

1470
01:22:55,439 --> 01:22:58,079
from that, and it's like, you know, just guitar masses

1471
01:22:58,239 --> 01:23:02,479
and skittle stuff and hip hop mass and just weird

1472
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:05,319
stuff going on. You see, it's divorced, and then you think, well,

1473
01:23:05,319 --> 01:23:07,199
now what am I going to do? And so for

1474
01:23:07,319 --> 01:23:09,079
most people, they just hear about, oh, well, you know,

1475
01:23:09,279 --> 01:23:11,239
maybe you want maybe you should check out the traditional

1476
01:23:11,279 --> 01:23:14,079
Latin Mass. That's where the real Catholic stuff is preserved,

1477
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:16,720
and so you go to that. And the thing with

1478
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:20,119
most traditional Catholics and Catholics in general is that they

1479
01:23:20,119 --> 01:23:23,479
don't read the documents. They don't read Vatican two, they

1480
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:27,720
don't read Vatican One. I've talked to Roman Catholics all

1481
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:30,640
the time. I've been talking to him since since the nineties,

1482
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:37,079
and I would say that probably ninety eight percent of

1483
01:23:37,199 --> 01:23:40,399
Roman Catholics have never read Vatican One. I don't mean

1484
01:23:40,439 --> 01:23:43,000
a summary of it, I mean the actual fifteen pages

1485
01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:46,000
printed out a Vatican One. So you know, they don't

1486
01:23:46,239 --> 01:23:49,199
really know what their dogmas and doctrines say. So I

1487
01:23:49,239 --> 01:23:52,479
think what happens is they just kind of latch onto

1488
01:23:52,720 --> 01:23:57,159
whatever they hear from other people, pop apologists, the internet, YouTube,

1489
01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:00,960
They latch onto what they think might be the best explanation.

1490
01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:04,760
Me being a book nerd, I was not satisfied with that,

1491
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:06,760
So I was always reading the next book, this book,

1492
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:10,039
that book. Still got all these all my trad Catholic

1493
01:24:10,039 --> 01:24:12,359
books up there on that shelf, and I just found

1494
01:24:12,359 --> 01:24:14,680
that after so many years of trying to make it work,

1495
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:16,600
it just kind of I just kind of gave up

1496
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:20,680
and collapsed on trying to make Vatican one, Vatican two

1497
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:23,399
and all that, and trad cat stuff makes sense because clearly,

1498
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:27,720
I mean, I think eventually it just dawns on trad cats.

1499
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:29,920
The ones that leave, they really they really realize, like

1500
01:24:29,960 --> 01:24:32,439
why am I defending this guy in this institution that

1501
01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:36,600
hates me? And I think once you realize that Francis,

1502
01:24:36,840 --> 01:24:39,039
you know, if you're a traditional Catholic and you want

1503
01:24:39,079 --> 01:24:42,279
to uphold you know, morals and all this kind of stuff,

1504
01:24:42,319 --> 01:24:45,119
Francis doesn't care about you. Francis is shutting down your

1505
01:24:45,119 --> 01:24:49,760
beloved Latin Mass like he hates you. And eventually you

1506
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:53,840
come to just decide I'm not going to support and

1507
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:57,359
try to convince people of this geopolitical tool in another

1508
01:24:57,359 --> 01:24:58,159
country that hates me.

1509
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:03,159
Speaker 22: Okay, because I noticed something else that God forgive me.

1510
01:25:03,199 --> 01:25:05,920
But I was listening to some trad cat and he

1511
01:25:06,079 --> 01:25:08,479
was talking about Francis.

1512
01:25:08,880 --> 01:25:10,279
Speaker 3: I guess maybe.

1513
01:25:10,119 --> 01:25:14,159
Speaker 22: It was somebody prayer Benedict, but that you you.

1514
01:25:14,039 --> 01:25:14,760
Speaker 3: Can no longer.

1515
01:25:15,880 --> 01:25:19,319
Speaker 22: You can't kneel when you're receiving the eucharis, and you

1516
01:25:19,359 --> 01:25:21,119
can't receive it in your hand, you have to take

1517
01:25:21,119 --> 01:25:23,600
it into the mouth. And how they are it out currently?

1518
01:25:24,039 --> 01:25:27,039
When they do that, they're like children, you know, we're

1519
01:25:27,079 --> 01:25:27,960
so childish.

1520
01:25:28,199 --> 01:25:30,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I forgot Francis saying. I remember him saying something

1521
01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:31,960
about that, that it's childlife.

1522
01:25:32,359 --> 01:25:34,840
Speaker 22: So this guy goes on to pontificate about this, and

1523
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:37,399
I'm like, how can you say that when you don't

1524
01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:40,520
even commune little children, which is like written, you know,

1525
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:43,520
right in front of you, suffer the little children to

1526
01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:44,800
come on to me for such.

1527
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:45,680
Speaker 3: As the kingdom of head.

1528
01:25:46,199 --> 01:25:50,319
Speaker 22: So he yeah, So he inverts the whole thing into

1529
01:25:50,359 --> 01:25:53,279
his own personal where where does it come from?

1530
01:25:53,279 --> 01:25:57,159
Speaker 3: It? So it was like some kind of personal virtue exaltation.

1531
01:25:57,359 --> 01:25:58,000
I guess.

1532
01:25:59,239 --> 01:26:02,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, great point. Matt totally agree. I think I'm just

1533
01:26:02,359 --> 01:26:06,880
Pato communion itself, if you really think about it, is

1534
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:14,079
almost enough to refute Romanatholicism, because the Latin Church communed

1535
01:26:14,119 --> 01:26:19,199
infants for all those centuries. And it's not accidental that

1536
01:26:19,560 --> 01:26:24,800
the departure of Pato communion happens precisely when the phillyoqua

1537
01:26:24,920 --> 01:26:28,720
comes in and the temporal claims of the Roman bishop

1538
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:35,560
begin to exaggerate. So I think there's definitely a connection

1539
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:38,800
between those things. All right, Sam Hide messaged me. I

1540
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:42,279
gotta call Sam Hi. We're talking about whether or not

1541
01:26:42,319 --> 01:26:44,960
I will go work with him on a TV show,

1542
01:26:45,039 --> 01:26:46,439
So I gotta let you guys go. It's been a

1543
01:26:46,439 --> 01:26:47,840
great time tonight. I want to remind you to head

1544
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:49,680
on over to Chalk dot com. HQ dot com. That

1545
01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:52,239
is the show sponsor. They are our sponsor. They're the

1546
01:26:52,279 --> 01:26:54,640
best in supplementation. If you head on over to chalk

1547
01:26:54,640 --> 01:26:56,000
dot com right now and use a prom QoE J

1548
01:26:56,279 --> 01:26:58,600
forty four Life, that's jy four four Life, you will

1549
01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:00,720
get forty four percent off all of these great products,

1550
01:27:01,039 --> 01:27:05,279
particularly the Male Performance Stack, which is about working out,

1551
01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:09,840
so don't have a crazy, dirty mind. This is about

1552
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:13,479
going to the gym, getting fit, upping your game, uping

1553
01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:16,359
your toxic masculinity by getting these products like the Action

1554
01:27:16,399 --> 01:27:18,560
two point zero, the Chalk dot Com Assume Me at

1555
01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:24,960
chalk dot com, the Talk Got a Lee, the Chad Mode.

1556
01:27:25,079 --> 01:27:27,680
Great products over there. It's not just produced though. If

1557
01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:30,279
you are part of the ten percent of my female audience,

1558
01:27:31,159 --> 01:27:34,640
the Female Vitality Stack is also available to you over there.

1559
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:37,279
The j A y forty four l I f E

1560
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:40,800
promo code is a recurring subscription code, but you can

1561
01:27:42,119 --> 01:27:44,279
cancel at any time if you don't like it. If

1562
01:27:44,279 --> 01:27:45,880
you want to just test it out, I would say

1563
01:27:45,960 --> 01:27:48,720
use the promo code JAY forty, that's J forty to

1564
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:51,439
get forty percent off all those great products over at

1565
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:55,640
chalk dot com, c hoq dot com. I also still

1566
01:27:55,640 --> 01:27:59,079
have my philosophy course available in the chat through Richard Grove.

1567
01:27:59,279 --> 01:28:02,520
If you want to get access to my philosophy course,

1568
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:08,000
use the autonomy Agora marketplace link. Ryan G. I hope

1569
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:09,239
you're not mad. I had a good I had a

1570
01:28:09,239 --> 01:28:10,680
good time talking with you. It's just I had I

1571
01:28:10,720 --> 01:28:13,399
wanted to move on, so I'm sorry if he's mad,

1572
01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:16,359
But we're just gonna have we had to move.

1573
01:28:16,239 --> 01:28:16,560
Speaker 3: On to.

1574
01:28:18,079 --> 01:28:19,800
Speaker 2: Before it got more and more sour. I don't wanted

1575
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:21,960
to go more sour. So I kind of Matt three dollars,

1576
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:24,680
are you going to go on Rouse Lawn show? Rouselan said,

1577
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:27,760
if I'm in California, I can go on his show,

1578
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:31,079
So it's not like flying me out or whatever, which

1579
01:28:31,119 --> 01:28:33,600
is fine. I'm not expecting him to, but uh, you know,

1580
01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:35,880
I told him something like, hey, we come out to

1581
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:39,239
La you know, twice a year for events and whatever,

1582
01:28:40,399 --> 01:28:42,279
and he said, well, you're welcome to come on and

1583
01:28:42,319 --> 01:28:44,359
we can have a discussion. So yeah, I mean I'm

1584
01:28:44,399 --> 01:28:46,760
the next time we end up out in the La

1585
01:28:46,880 --> 01:28:50,439
San Diego area. Yeah, I mean, unless he's changed his

1586
01:28:50,479 --> 01:28:51,920
mind he doesn't want me on there, I don't know,

1587
01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:55,279
but he said the invite is there. He has not

1588
01:28:55,439 --> 01:29:00,279
yet taken back that invite. So but there's no like

1589
01:29:00,359 --> 01:29:02,359
set date, and I don't know when I'll be back

1590
01:29:02,399 --> 01:29:06,680
in California. If if the Sam Hyde thing works out,

1591
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:11,600
things will change. I mean I will be doing that

1592
01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:13,760
full time. I mean, I'll still be doing live streams.

1593
01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:15,359
I'll still you know, talk to you guys and do

1594
01:29:15,439 --> 01:29:19,640
what I do Uh, it'll just probably be less live streams.

1595
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:22,119
I won't be live streaming every night. That would be

1596
01:29:22,159 --> 01:29:26,319
like a full time job doing the a daily type

1597
01:29:26,359 --> 01:29:28,239
of show with Sam Hid, the right wing daily show,

1598
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:33,880
so that that will be most of my daytime. But

1599
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:39,079
that sounds like a lot of fun. I mean, I'm

1600
01:29:39,119 --> 01:29:43,039
really really want you know, we're weighing it. You know,

1601
01:29:43,079 --> 01:29:46,359
we'd have to move you know up there, you know,

1602
01:29:46,399 --> 01:29:49,079
which is not a problem. It's it's doable. It's just

1603
01:29:49,359 --> 01:29:51,319
you know, it's a it's a big kind of life decision,

1604
01:29:51,439 --> 01:29:54,359
so we got to figure out what we want to

1605
01:29:54,399 --> 01:29:57,159
do here. I'm a calling him here in a minute

1606
01:29:57,199 --> 01:30:00,680
to talk about the specifics. So you guys pray for

1607
01:30:00,760 --> 01:30:02,720
me on that. It's a big, big life decision. So

1608
01:30:03,920 --> 01:30:05,439
you know, it could be it could be blow up

1609
01:30:05,479 --> 01:30:08,560
and be you know, a big thing, and I'd love

1610
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:12,000
to be there kind of on the ground floor of that.

1611
01:30:14,760 --> 01:30:17,880
What do you guys think? I mean, it would not

1612
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:23,640
be conspiracy related. It's going to be news, politics related,

1613
01:30:24,319 --> 01:30:31,000
funny stuff. So it would be different, you see what

1614
01:30:31,039 --> 01:30:32,840
I'm you see what I'm getting at, Like, my life

1615
01:30:32,880 --> 01:30:36,239
would be different, not in a bad way, it would

1616
01:30:36,279 --> 01:30:40,960
just be a different pathway, so to speak. So you know,

1617
01:30:40,960 --> 01:30:43,880
we want to we want to make sure we discuss

1618
01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:45,600
all the p's in the queues and make sure it's

1619
01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:48,319
the right fit for for him and for what I

1620
01:30:48,359 --> 01:30:51,000
do and so forth. So uh, anyway, I've got to

1621
01:30:51,039 --> 01:30:52,640
call him back and see what's going on and what

1622
01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:56,279
we want to do. Otherwise, everybody, have a good night.

1623
01:30:56,359 --> 01:31:00,399
Appreciate you guys, and I think that's it. Every Oh,

1624
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:06,760
check out the the alien UFO deception thing that I

1625
01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:10,720
did for the Friday show. So that was all up

1626
01:31:10,760 --> 01:31:12,680
in the air. So I'm still for the time being

1627
01:31:13,479 --> 01:31:16,880
fourth hour at Lord Voldemort. So we didn't know if

1628
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:20,239
that was going going away. We had almost one hundred

1629
01:31:20,279 --> 01:31:22,039
and sixty three thousand views on this, so go check

1630
01:31:22,079 --> 01:31:26,000
this out right here. Red alert UFO alien deception lay

1631
01:31:26,199 --> 01:31:29,000
rolling out. This is in relation to all the drones,

1632
01:31:29,039 --> 01:31:33,399
which are obviously drones. Literally a drone crashes, it's clearly

1633
01:31:33,399 --> 01:31:34,279
a drone, and people.

1634
01:31:34,119 --> 01:31:36,199
Speaker 3: Are like aliens, dude, it's aliens.

1635
01:31:37,119 --> 01:31:40,119
Speaker 2: Well, I give my forty five minute, fifty minute breakdown

1636
01:31:40,199 --> 01:31:44,800
of the absurdity of the alien nonsense surrounding this issue

1637
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:49,520
right here. Shout out to Damien Slash always coming up

1638
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:55,279
with these funny videos. Anyway, Oh and forgot. If you're

1639
01:31:55,319 --> 01:31:59,239
in the Florida area January nineteenth, we'll be at this

1640
01:31:59,720 --> 01:32:03,960
movie convention here Tampa Bay Screams. This is kind of

1641
01:32:03,960 --> 01:32:06,560
like the conventions that Jamie Kennedy goes to, like these

1642
01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:10,680
scream conventions. This one, though, is I will be speaking

1643
01:32:11,199 --> 01:32:14,079
that evening at a dinner event. So if you want

1644
01:32:14,119 --> 01:32:17,479
to get tickets to Dark Secrets of Horror Films, I

1645
01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:19,720
will be speaking and we'll be doing a dinner. The

1646
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:23,640
first thirty tickets get a free Esotery Hollywood copy. So

1647
01:32:23,760 --> 01:32:26,520
get your tickets right here on my Twitter. If you

1648
01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:28,560
want the link, it's right underneath here. You come over

1649
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:32,720
here to this square checkout link right here, and you

1650
01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:39,039
get tickets January nineteenth. Now, the convention is different from

1651
01:32:39,079 --> 01:32:42,399
the evening lecture with me, so I think you can

1652
01:32:42,439 --> 01:32:44,720
go to the convention. I'm not sure if there's tickets

1653
01:32:44,760 --> 01:32:47,960
for the convention. But he gets a good crowd, he said,

1654
01:32:48,000 --> 01:32:51,560
he gets about four or five hundred people. It's not

1655
01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:54,479
it's a different crowd from what we're used to my audience,

1656
01:32:54,520 --> 01:32:58,079
so it's going to be a unique experience with the

1657
01:32:59,680 --> 01:33:04,560
B movie horror crowd. So there's some interesting B movie

1658
01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:07,279
famous people coming to this event. Some of most of people,

1659
01:33:07,319 --> 01:33:09,600
I don't know who they are, but we'll be there.

1660
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:11,800
I'll have a booth, we'll be selling esolter Hollywood and

1661
01:33:11,800 --> 01:33:14,079
so forth, and I will be giving a kind of

1662
01:33:14,079 --> 01:33:16,479
an esoteric Hollywood type lecture that night. Get your tickets

1663
01:33:16,560 --> 01:33:20,319
right here. January nineteenth, Tampa Bay Screams in Tampa Bay, Florida.

1664
01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:21,720
So there's those tickets