WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:05.040 You see, something's going to happen. 2 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:10.599 What What's gonna happen? 3 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:15.519 What? 4 00:00:22.519 --> 00:00:28.280 Help? Welcome to the Occult Rejects this episode, I got 5 00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:30.199 a couple of the rejects with me, and we got 6 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:33.960 a Brandon new guest on today, and before we introduce her, 7 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:36.520 we'll introduce the other rejects with us, and I got 8 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:39.439 my boy, headless giant. What is going on, sir? I 9 00:00:39.719 --> 00:00:41.840 finally got to meet this man after about three and 10 00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:44.320 a half years. He got stuck spending three days with 11 00:00:44.399 --> 00:00:46.679 me in an event and I had a blast. And 12 00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:48.759 I have to even say, yo, you know, for real, 13 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:50.439 for real, when I met the guy, it was just 14 00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:52.280 like it wasn't even weird. It was just like it 15 00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:54.159 was already my boy. Like it's hard to explain, like 16 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:56.439 there was no uncomfortability at all. I was just like, yo, 17 00:00:56.520 --> 00:00:59.799 it's fucking endless finally, you know. And we got a blast. 18 00:00:59.799 --> 00:01:02.920 But thank you, man for jumping on. I know yesterday 19 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:05.480 sucked to getting home soon as me. Yeah, it was horrible. 20 00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:07.599 I didn't get on about Tull thirty, but I appreciate 21 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:09.200 you jumping on today. Man, What is going on? 22 00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:13.519 Absolutely? I'm happy to be here, and so is Beans. 23 00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:16.719 He missed me for the last two weeks, so he's 24 00:01:16.719 --> 00:01:19.760 not gonna let me have a moment of relaxation here. 25 00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:21.680 But if you guys want to check me out, I'm 26 00:01:21.719 --> 00:01:25.079 on Twitter and I'm on Instagram. Just look up Headless 27 00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:27.519 Giant and you'll find me there. I had an awesome 28 00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:29.799 time this weekend. Hopefully we get a chance to talk 29 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:32.480 about it or something on stream. That was an incredible time. 30 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:36.480 And uh yeah, so check me out. I've got seven 31 00:01:36.519 --> 00:01:39.200 seven seven coming up tonight with you, so. 32 00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:41.959 Oh hell yeah, I totally forgot about that. I forgot 33 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:45.000 it's Tuesday. Holy shit. Yeah, I keep on thinking it's Monday, 34 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:49.200 like yeah, yeah, that's funny. Well, thanks for the reminder. 35 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:51.760 I appreciate that. What he said I would have received 36 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:55.760 the Lincoln. I'd be like, what the fuck? Oops? Uh 37 00:01:56.439 --> 00:01:59.280 uh yeah, go check out holy stuff. And Matt, thank 38 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:00.840 you so much for coming on my man. I always 39 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:03.280 appreciate you making it on. I know you're over in 40 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:07.799 Italy still right, correct, Yes, that's awesome man, that's awesome 41 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:09.199 the Atlantic. 42 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:12.000 Yeah, pretty happy to be here. Always nice to talk 43 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:13.919 about the stuff that I like as well. So Tarat 44 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:17.120 definitely is up there. And yeah, I mean, you can 45 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:20.919 find me on many platforms always Matt more on nineteen 46 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:26.520 so that's Instagram, X, YouTube, TikTok, Twitch, maybe some other pists. 47 00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:30.599 And there's also the Gray Lodge we do we host 48 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:35.159 weekly spaces on X that's always on Fridays, and you 49 00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:38.520 can also find the videos there, the ones we save 50 00:02:38.599 --> 00:02:43.240 in post to YouTube on the True Gray Lodge dot com. 51 00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:43.919 With the v so true. 52 00:02:44.919 --> 00:02:47.639 And also my website kabala dot com that's k A 53 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:51.080 A b A l a h dot com. Doing some 54 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:55.400 late here readings before it change the stuff that I'm 55 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:57.759 providing there, so if you want to do that, make 56 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:00.800 sure to grab it quickly before it changes. But yeah, 57 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:03.719 pretty hapy to be here in let's have a great 58 00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:04.039 comp all. 59 00:03:04.039 --> 00:03:06.039 Right, thank you man. I really appreciate your making it 60 00:03:06.039 --> 00:03:09.439 again as well, always like when you're here. And finally, 61 00:03:09.719 --> 00:03:13.639 the guest Sabrina Scott. She's in Tataro. She's an author, 62 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:15.159 She's got a bunch of stuff that I'm sure we 63 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:18.159 can all talk about today. Very excited to get you on, 64 00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:21.039 so please Sabrina, you know, let people know like what 65 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:22.639 your deal is and where they can find all your 66 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:23.439 amazing work. 67 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:26.840 Oh my god, Hello, so excited to be here and 68 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:29.639 to finally, like E meet all of you. I feel 69 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:31.759 like it's going to be a really fun little chat. 70 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:34.599 So for anyone who doesn't know me, I guess I'm 71 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:37.719 a professional witch and have been for more than a decade. 72 00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:39.879 And I've been reading cards for twenty five years, been 73 00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:42.400 into witchcraft for twenty five years. Grew up in a 74 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:47.280 fun thing called spiritualism that means like seances, mediumship, table tipping, 75 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:50.960 like transpossession, all that fun shit. Got to see that 76 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:55.039 before I turned ten, so definitely has influenced a lot 77 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:57.199 of my perspective on a lot of this kind of 78 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:00.479 like witchy woo woo magical occult stuff. That's a little 79 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:03.360 bit of a unique, fun little thing about me. Also 80 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:07.080 doing a PhD in a science department about trauma and 81 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:11.360 witchcraft and how witchcraft can be a healing thing for trauma. 82 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:13.240 So it's a bunch of what I do. And if 83 00:04:13.240 --> 00:04:14.960 anyone is curious to check me out on the good 84 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:19.120 old interwebs. Sabrina Mscott dot Com, Instagram, Sabrina M Scott. 85 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:23.279 What else YouTube is slash Sabrina Scott because I guess 86 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:25.439 there's not as many Sabrina Scotts on YouTube, so I 87 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:26.959 was able to get it without the. 88 00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:30.199 M oh nice, it's yeah all right, yeah, and I'll 89 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:32.279 definitely include all your links at the bottom as well. 90 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:34.079 So awesome, thank you. 91 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:37.680 Yes, yes, I know, like I guess, you know, I guess, 92 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:39.920 you know, just to jump right into it. You know, 93 00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:42.600 you have started off young. You know you were probably 94 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:44.000 as for what I get out of it, you were 95 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:46.839 brought up into it. So if you don't mind, like 96 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:48.800 you know, I guess as personal as as you mind 97 00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:51.040 getting uh, could you let us know like how that 98 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:54.040 how that was? Normally I would ask my guests what 99 00:04:54.279 --> 00:04:56.360 what got you into this stuff? You know, you were 100 00:04:56.360 --> 00:04:57.439 born into it, so you know. 101 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:01.920 Yeah, yeah, so we kind of yeah, unique upbringing, I 102 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:04.839 suppose you could say. So. My mom was super big 103 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:08.519 into spiritualism, so she was always into mediumship and stuff 104 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:11.680 like that, as was her mother. So if we count 105 00:05:11.720 --> 00:05:14.360 down the lines, I guess technically I'm seventh generation with 106 00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:17.480 all of that stuff. And so it was really really 107 00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:19.279 cool to be able to grow up in an environment 108 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:22.959 where I could basically compare like spiritual notes like with 109 00:05:23.079 --> 00:05:24.920 my mom to be like, all right, I'm picking up 110 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:27.160 on this spirit like and I would hold it in 111 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:29.600 my mind and really, right, Mom, what are you picking 112 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:31.160 up on? And then she'd be like blah da da da, 113 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:33.160 and like kind of rattle off, and I'd be like, yes, 114 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:36.319 that's exactly what I'm getting. So, when we're talking about 115 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:40.639 like building spiritual confidence and like spiritual skill building, it 116 00:05:40.759 --> 00:05:43.480 was really sweet to have access to that kind of 117 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:48.240 evidential comparing notes type of thing from a really really 118 00:05:48.279 --> 00:05:50.560 young age. I think a lot of people struggle with 119 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:53.279 that or struggle with confidence in terms of spirituality and 120 00:05:53.279 --> 00:05:56.079 like energy work skills and like is this real? Am 121 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:57.839 I making this up? Like I've heard that from so 122 00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:01.160 many newer practitioners, and so is very blessed to kind 123 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:04.360 of be able to have someone to bounce this stuff 124 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:08.079 off of and just to have that kind of early confirmation. 125 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:10.920 And so for anyone who doesn't know about spiritualism, it 126 00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:13.439 was found in the eighteen fifties upstate New York, which 127 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:17.000 is actually where my mom lives. So it's like kind 128 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:19.720 of an interesting little thing. So she's still like involved 129 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:24.800 with the church, the og Spiritualist Church, and it considers 130 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:27.279 itself a science of religion and a philosophy, and it's 131 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:31.120 really big on proving the existence of life after death, 132 00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:34.120 like the continuation of the soul be a medium ship 133 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:38.360 and healing and so growing up with that first and 134 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:41.720 foremost like it really has influenced my perspective on things 135 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:45.199 like taro witchcraft stuff like that and no shade like 136 00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:47.480 a lot of taro and witchy people. But I do 137 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:50.519 feel like a lot of folks out there practicing would 138 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:53.160 not know what to do if a spirit actually showed up, 139 00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:55.959 do you know what I mean? Like there is a 140 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:58.680 lot of that, at least in like the witchy space, 141 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:02.160 maybe not so much like the cultism space, if you 142 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:02.759 know what I mean. 143 00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:04.879 You know, I get that. I mean I've even asked 144 00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:06.360 I mean, this is a little loft, but I mean 145 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:08.759 it's kind of almost the same comparison. I've asked bigfoot people, 146 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:10.519 what are you gonna do when you do finally see him? 147 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:12.000 I'll probably fucking run. 148 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:15.600 Hey, what do people say when you ask that? 149 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:19.240 When you finally got them? Now, what are you going 150 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:20.759 to do? When people were like I have people on 151 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:22.279 the show, and some of them didn't even have an 152 00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:23.360 answer right away because they're like. 153 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:28.279 Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, And so I guess I got 154 00:07:28.360 --> 00:07:30.839 to kind of see the real deal of it all 155 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:33.279 from a really young age. So like the question of 156 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:36.439 like is this real or am I delusional? You know, 157 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:39.639 that question was never really a thing, just because I 158 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:42.120 did get to have so much confirmation and evidence. 159 00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:47.000 Yeah, that's especially from a person that you trust totally. 160 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:49.959 That was a thing that was even I mean, it 161 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:52.439 wasn't one of the reasons why I had left the OTO, 162 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:54.480 but like when I started having my experiences, I realized 163 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:55.879 I was like, yoh, there's nobody even here I could 164 00:07:55.879 --> 00:07:57.879 talk to about this, because I tried to like kind 165 00:07:57.920 --> 00:07:59.319 of with a few people, and I was just like, 166 00:07:59.399 --> 00:08:01.519 it's a fox point for me to be here because 167 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:03.319 like and then some of the just keeping a real 168 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:06.120 some of the other people there, I felt like if 169 00:08:06.160 --> 00:08:09.040 I was as them, they run with some like wild delusion, 170 00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:12.040 you know, I'm just just concox some crazy woo woo shit. 171 00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:14.879 And I just wasn't comfortable even talking to people. So 172 00:08:14.920 --> 00:08:16.519 it kind of sucked. I was like, well, why even 173 00:08:16.519 --> 00:08:17.680 be here now at this point? 174 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:21.079 I don't what crazy woo would they say? Now? 175 00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:23.040 Like I don't know, probably like ah, it was like 176 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:25.600 some a trial. It was just I had spoken to 177 00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:27.079 somebody I remember they were trying to tell me some 178 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:28.959 weird ask the travel ship, and I was like, all right, 179 00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:30.600 I could kind of grasp that, but they were like 180 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:32.240 getting like weird about it, and I was just like 181 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:34.960 or I had people telling me like certain like specific 182 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:36.799 Oh it was a certain like deity and this and that. 183 00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:39.000 I'm like, the fuck, I don't know. It was just 184 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:41.480 hard to explain, it was. It was just hard toks. 185 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:43.120 I was like, well, how did that come out of 186 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:46.639 like what I was doing. It's just like I had 187 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:48.679 my eyes closed, meditating in my chair and you're telling 188 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:51.639 me about you know, fucking ayes Modius sometimes ship. 189 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:56.480 You know, I don't know, it's weird sometimes people's interpretations. 190 00:08:56.519 --> 00:08:56.799 The thing. 191 00:08:56.840 --> 00:08:58.399 You know, what the problem was is I was never 192 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:00.840 even able to get out like exactly like it was 193 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:03.039 before he was even done explaining myself. I was already 194 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:05.320 getting answers, and I was like, see, like you should. 195 00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:07.080 You haven't even listened to the whole fucking thing yet. 196 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:09.799 That's had I think was the major problem. You know 197 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:12.200 what I'm saying. Yeah, it was just like you're already 198 00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:14.799 throwing answers out there before I even explained this whole 199 00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:19.639 fucking visual feeling scenario I went through No, Yeah, so 200 00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:22.279 it just wasn't comfortable. So you're lucky you had that experience, 201 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:22.519 you know. 202 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:25.639 Yeah, truly it's a blessing. I do think a lot 203 00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:28.159 of people there is life trying and figure that out. 204 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:32.039 Yeah, well there is a gulf between the magic community 205 00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:36.080 and the paranormal community that didn't exist all throughout history. 206 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:39.200 Because they're going to these places that are haunted and 207 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:41.320 they're summoning the spirits of talking to them. That's where 208 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:44.240 they get all their magical practices from. You know, it's 209 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:46.960 firsthand experience. But I think a lot of people have 210 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:47.879 sort of lost sight of that. 211 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:51.000 Yeah, and you know what, that's gonna make me sound 212 00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:53.399 kind of like a bitch, But I feel like some 213 00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:57.919 of the paranormal community people like don't fully get what's 214 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:01.120 going on, like looking at it from like the witchy 215 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:05.279 energy mediumship perspective, like there's I'm sure you're probably what 216 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:07.399 I'm talking about, Like there's some of those big shows 217 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:10.519 where they're on like a little in Paranormal Adventure and 218 00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:13.120 like looking at it like as an occultist, like as 219 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:15.600 a magical practitioner, as an energy worker, as a medium 220 00:10:15.639 --> 00:10:18.840 I'm just like, oh man, people know what they're doing 221 00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:22.799 and it's like low key stressful to be like what 222 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:25.080 are you doing? Like can I just come and teach 223 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:26.919 you the ways? And then this is all going to 224 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:28.919 go so much better and you're going to not be 225 00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:32.159 scaring yourself over the most basic shit like can we 226 00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:34.559 just all come hang out? Like let me show you 227 00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:37.559 guys the ways? And it's it's interesting, Like so I 228 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:40.279 think you're right, Like there is that golf where like 229 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:42.919 some witchy people or occult people could stand to get 230 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:46.600 more of their hands dirty with going out there, and 231 00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:49.960 then the the paranormal people like could stand to learn 232 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:52.200 a little bit more about what those of us over 233 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:55.879 here in a cult mediumship, witchy energy land have to say. 234 00:10:56.480 --> 00:10:57.840 Like there is there's not a lot of people who 235 00:10:57.879 --> 00:11:00.519 are having that kind of cross cultural accomp station. 236 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:04.080 I like how you mentioned, uh right, you got to 237 00:11:04.159 --> 00:11:06.799 go ahead? Hell's sorry, Well I was going. 238 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:08.519 To say, you got to get them tickets to lily Dale. 239 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:10.799 You know lily Dale. Something we still going on. 240 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:13.720 It is, it's right there, You're just got to pay 241 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:17.200 the entry fee to go chill. There's still doing their thing. 242 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:22.440 I like, how you men go ahead, No, I. 243 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:25.559 Got Chris to understand, like, how do you practice uh 244 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:28.600 this spiritualism because we have it in Brazil's well probably 245 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:32.759 a different like uh the tape from a different origin 246 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:35.440 because I know from Brazil the guys came from friends. 247 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:37.799 So it's like the car neck and whatever. 248 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:40.679 There's like a bunch of if you mentioned the other ones, 249 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:43.200 maybe probably some Anglo Saxon like if it started in 250 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:46.039 New York as well. But like in Brazil we have 251 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:49.080 the median ship, we have the tables and one. We 252 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:51.440 have a lot of Heaton passes what they'll say like 253 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:54.360 you go and take it past or whatever. But there's 254 00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:58.759 for like outside people, there's there's also a communication sometimes 255 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:01.159 like you get like a letter read in order something 256 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:04.279 like that, Like how different just to kind of start 257 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:05.639 try to grasp in man. 258 00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:08.279 Yeah, I'd be curious to hear more about what the 259 00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:12.519 situation is in Brazil to really be able to be 260 00:12:12.679 --> 00:12:15.960 like an actually solid answer on that. But in terms 261 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:17.879 of technique wise, like all of what you just mentioned 262 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:23.559 sounds very aligned. But even within North America, like spiritualism 263 00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:28.320 does have like specifically spiritualism does have different little factions. 264 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:32.159 So NFB see like the National Spiritual Association of Churches, 265 00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:34.519 which is kind of what I grew up around, and 266 00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:38.039 that would be the lily Dale version of spiritualism is 267 00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:43.360 really a bit different than non NSAC forms of spiritualism 268 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:47.320 in North America, Like and there's so within the NSAC 269 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:50.879 there's like there's rules, there's certain you know, stuff that 270 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:53.240 is cool and certain stuff that is not cool. Like 271 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:57.919 they're really big on keeping things kind of purest like 272 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:01.679 no tarot, no tool know, nothing, like they just want 273 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:05.919 it to be pure bodywork. And other let's say, forms 274 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:08.320 of sputualism in North America are a little bit more 275 00:13:08.360 --> 00:13:10.200 like las A fair some of them are a little 276 00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:14.639 bit more Christian inflected, whereas NICC definitely is not. And 277 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:17.759 so there are some kind of interesting little tensions there. 278 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:19.440 I think this. I was talking to someone about this 279 00:13:19.480 --> 00:13:22.759 last night actually, I did another podcast interview and she's 280 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:24.240 out in the UK, and she was kind of saying 281 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:26.720 the same thing is going on out there in terms 282 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:30.960 of the different spiritualist factions out Yonder kind of battling 283 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:33.799 each other. So it seems like it all kind of 284 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:36.919 comes from a very common route or common series of 285 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:39.480 folks who are influencing the thought in the practice. But 286 00:13:39.559 --> 00:13:42.519 I'm sure there's there's always like little political infighting in 287 00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:46.919 terms of what's considered to be like the legit way 288 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:49.039 to do it, and that's always going to be kind 289 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:50.759 of different. But I would say that sounds like there's 290 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:55.240 some similarities in terms of the practices and techniques for sure. 291 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:58.519 Yeah, but it's interesting that you mentioned that, for example, 292 00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:04.120 the day one, it's not necessarily religious, right, Is that right? 293 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:10.879 Or or maybe less influenced, because what I mean, I 294 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:13.799 think I understood you saying that there's like some that 295 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:17.039 are more religious like Christian whatever focus, and some others 296 00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:17.840 maybe not that much. 297 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:18.759 Yeah. 298 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:19.879 I don't. 299 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:24.440 Yeah, so I would I would consider it religious, but 300 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:25.879 I wouldn't consider it Christian. 301 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:28.840 Yeah, that's considered the. 302 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:31.720 Thing to be their own religion. They've got their little 303 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:35.639 principles and all of that. But I don't actually think 304 00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:37.759 and I could be wrong on this, but last I heard, 305 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:40.360 I don't think you're actually allowed to have property in 306 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:44.480 Lilldale if you accept Jesus. Like, they're very like, we're 307 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:46.799 doing our own thing here, like that has nothing to 308 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:51.720 do with Christianity, so they are very kind of protective. 309 00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:55.080 I would say about about that in that sence. 310 00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:59.480 Yeah, because in Brazil, like it's a very Catholic country, 311 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:01.399 you know, for and portrayed guys and so on, so 312 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:03.879 then it kind of got mixed with so the card 313 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:06.759 next stuff was very very Christian, you know, it's like 314 00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:09.039 they even used the Bible and whatever in Jesus and 315 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:10.960 so they talk about the same thing. But then it 316 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:14.080 got synchronized with the African stuff and the native stuff. 317 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:17.000 So then we have like this mix and the branches 318 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:20.519 are from the prely Christian guys, and then the ones 319 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:22.320 that mix with the African stuff as well, and then 320 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:24.759 the ones with mixed with the natives. So then there's 321 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:27.039 and then there's the whole shebang. Like you said, oh 322 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:29.360 this is we can't do it or we cannot do it. 323 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:30.440 We can use it, we cannot use it. 324 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:34.039 But it's well at the end of the day, really, people. 325 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:36.039 And you know what, like Brazil to me seems like 326 00:15:36.039 --> 00:15:39.559 such an interesting place spiritually because there's so many different 327 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:43.799 influences kind of interacting and coming together and having that conversation. 328 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:46.960 So Brazil from what I know, and please correct me 329 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:48.559 if this is wrong, but it seems to be one 330 00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:51.080 of the main places that what they call in like 331 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:55.600 the academic literature, like new religious movements Brazil. Like there's 332 00:15:55.639 --> 00:15:59.039 just so many different influences and stuff going on, So 333 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:01.600 let's super interest thing to hear about from your perspective. 334 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:04.360 Yeah, there's a lot of mix, and like even for example, 335 00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:07.919 spiritualism came there and then a guy founded another thing 336 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:09.919 called like a poma three I think. 337 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:11.799 With people in English, and then it's like a whole 338 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:14.519 another thing. And so yeah, it's like a new religion 339 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:19.840 every week. Well, Matt, if I could jump in. 340 00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:24.000 So the one the Spiritualist society I went to was 341 00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:27.159 in Falls Church, Virginia, and I would say that they're 342 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:30.360 more on the Christian side because they did have hymns 343 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:34.879 and other you know Christian sort of paraphernalia going on 344 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:38.360 before the service itself. But I think it served to 345 00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:41.320 sort of you know, focus and sort of get everybody 346 00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:44.600 in the same mindset to less so about you know, 347 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:47.480 just the religious angle of it and more so about 348 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:48.279 the focus though. 349 00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:51.639 Yeah, it makes sense. 350 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:55.200 Yeah, and I've got no shade on Christians actually at all, 351 00:16:55.399 --> 00:16:58.000 Like it's just not og spiritualism. 352 00:16:58.039 --> 00:17:02.799 I would say, Well, a lot of this comes from 353 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:07.119 the Native American influence, right, So the Native American influence 354 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:10.880 was a big thing in the Christian churches at that 355 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:13.160 time period because they had practices that they were bringing 356 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:15.319 into their church that the white people had never seen before, 357 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:18.599 and they're like, why can't we do that too? And 358 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:21.160 so it's just sort of spread out from that sort 359 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:24.640 of interaction, and I think it's you know, it represents 360 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:27.680 something uniquely American that's now spreading across the world. 361 00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:31.960 Yeah, it's interesting. Like as a part of my master's research, 362 00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:36.279 I did some looking into of the like Native American 363 00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:39.720 kind of indigenous influence with that, and there is a 364 00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:43.079 whole bunch of stuff to be said about that, a 365 00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:45.240 bunch of books as well. I could recommend, not off 366 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:47.960 the top of my head, but there was a lot 367 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:50.839 of kind of cross cultural conversation. And one thing that's 368 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:53.200 really neat about lily Dale is like they do invite 369 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:56.440 the local indigenous folks sometimes to come in and like 370 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:00.000 give workshops. Like that was actually a theme one year 371 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:02.880 I can't remember it, probably like ten fifteen years ago, 372 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:05.759 where they did have a whole bunch of kind of 373 00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:09.839 spiritually inflected classes taught by like the Iroquois. I think 374 00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:14.200 this is I'm wrong, but so they do support that 375 00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:18.119 kind of cross cultural conversation I think always have around 376 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:21.880 spirit contact and what does that look like and people 377 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:26.640 channeling let's say Indigenous spirit guides as well back in 378 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:29.680 the day was also a big part of the conversation 379 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:32.039 back in the eighteen hundreds for sure. So that's your 380 00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:32.920 right to bring that up. 381 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:37.799 I have even noticed, you know, we've had people come 382 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:41.559 on to cover like Native Americanism or just like certain 383 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:42.960 things that I'll cover. I'll be like, oh my god, 384 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:46.359 this is like you know, the micmac medicine. Will you know, 385 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:49.319 there's even like a freemasonry. There's stuff that I think 386 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:52.559 they've even taken from Native American symbols, you know, some 387 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:56.400 secret societies too, So that is interesting crossover. 388 00:18:57.640 --> 00:18:58.240 Absolutely. 389 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:00.279 One thing I did want to bring up. It was 390 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:02.839 kind of something that Headless or who kind of went 391 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:07.440 into with the whole paranormal that is interesting with the 392 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:11.799 whole seance stuff, you know, that is again you know, 393 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:14.160 going back to like you know, a lot of my opinion, 394 00:19:14.359 --> 00:19:16.160 I was just gonna keep a real ghost adventures. You know, 395 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:18.440 you got Zach Baggins is always doing this silly fucking 396 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:20.599 shit and every other show, it's like, oh, ritual was 397 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:22.559 done here, Oh sience was done here, ritual was done. 398 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:25.680 You know, he's obviously my opinion, he's an a cultist anyway, 399 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:29.759 but uh, he's he focuses on that shit, and he 400 00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:32.759 does make it seem rather fucking silly and stupid at times. 401 00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:35.480