1 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,199 Speaker 1: What is up fell Siko's I am dan Fa Valley 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:12,279 coming at you with mister Moore Jensen of the NBA podcast, 3 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:16,640 fame of Yahoo Sports, fame of HBO Max fame and 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:22,800 of course OnlyFans celebrity. Our trade deadline primer train keeps 5 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,679 chugging along. We are on to the reigning Eastern Conference 6 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,600 champion Indiana Pacers. We have yet to see if they're 7 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,560 going to repeat as Eastern Conference NBA champion Indiana Pacers. 8 00:00:35,719 --> 00:00:39,039 Let's talk about the Indiana Pacers trade deadline vitals. My god, 9 00:00:39,119 --> 00:00:42,920 how bad of a segue was that they are five 10 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,000 point eight million dollars beneath the tacks, mister more Jansen, 11 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,439 And they are sixteen point eight million dollars beneath the 12 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,560 tacks for next year. But that does not include Benanck 13 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,439 Mathern's next deal. That was important for two reasons, because 14 00:00:54,439 --> 00:00:56,640 we're gonna talk about Bennecmathren and also they didn't have 15 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,719 a lot of trade deadline vitals to put in here, 16 00:00:58,759 --> 00:01:00,960 so I figured that that would be fun. They control 17 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,880 all their first round picks moving forward. Something tells me 18 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,319 that they're not going to trade this year's first round pick. 19 00:01:07,719 --> 00:01:09,920 If I had to guess, but they do have the 20 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,519 option of doing so if they so please. So I 21 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:19,359 think we should probably start there with Benedick Mathren. What 22 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,560 do you think they do with him? What should they 23 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,000 do with him? He's currently he's out and has an 24 00:01:24,079 --> 00:01:26,640 undisclosed timetable for return, but he is going to be 25 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,439 a restricted free agent this summer. Where do you land 26 00:01:29,519 --> 00:01:32,359 on the Benedick Mathrin front with the Indiana Pacers. 27 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 2: I expected a little bit more from him this year, 28 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:37,480 but granted he's been in and out of the lineup, 29 00:01:37,519 --> 00:01:40,079 like I don't think he's been. Is it fair to 30 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,680 say he hasn't been like fully healthy throughout the whole 31 00:01:42,879 --> 00:01:45,040 entirety of the season. It felt like to start the 32 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:46,959 year he had like three or four games when he 33 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,439 was like fully healthy, then he went down, then he 34 00:01:49,519 --> 00:01:52,480 came back, was sort of like knacking injuries here and there, 35 00:01:52,519 --> 00:01:55,120 and then now he's out again. So I don't want 36 00:01:55,159 --> 00:01:57,760 to sit here and say, oh, you know, he's disappointed 37 00:01:57,799 --> 00:02:00,959 me in terms of how he's played this year, because 38 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,439 I do want to take the injury concern real and 39 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,959 I want to be serious about it. But yeah, I 40 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:09,800 need to see a little bit more of him. If 41 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,719 I'm ready to say, yeah, commit to him for the 42 00:02:12,759 --> 00:02:15,759 long term. I do think he's a bucket getter. I 43 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,400 do like how he's getting to the free throw line. 44 00:02:18,439 --> 00:02:20,199 He can put a lot of pressure on the rim. 45 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,599 The three point shot comes and goes. There are stretches 46 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,080 where he actually looks pretty comfortable behind the arc. There 47 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,560 are other stretches where he does not. That's a bit 48 00:02:28,599 --> 00:02:33,680 of a concern. He is, however, someone who I trust 49 00:02:33,879 --> 00:02:39,520 in a capacity of providing athleticism, scoring, be that mid range, 50 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,000 be that rim pressure, be that just however way he wanted. Like, 51 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,319 he does have that ability to just go get you 52 00:02:45,319 --> 00:02:48,960 a bucket, and I do think that's important. My question 53 00:02:49,159 --> 00:02:53,879 is what is that worth, Like, what is the cost 54 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,599 of that, because I think that is going to ultimately 55 00:02:57,439 --> 00:03:01,560 determine my answer. If he's looking for or something along 56 00:03:01,599 --> 00:03:04,400 the lines of forty five million a year, I'm probably 57 00:03:04,439 --> 00:03:08,639 not inclined to go that high, and I think that 58 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,840 would be perhaps a mistake. But on the other hand, 59 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,120 he's a restricted free agent. Those guys rarely cash out 60 00:03:15,159 --> 00:03:18,199 in free agencies. So if I'm the Pacers, I could 61 00:03:18,319 --> 00:03:22,000 enter the offseason and be somewhat optimistic that I can 62 00:03:22,039 --> 00:03:26,599 get him back at a rate that I would find tolerable. 63 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,039 Speaker 1: I think what's tricky is I don't know how to 64 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,879 evaluate what he's done this season in the larger context 65 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,639 of what do the Pacers look like when they have 66 00:03:37,719 --> 00:03:39,879 Tyre's haliburt and how they want to play, and then 67 00:03:39,919 --> 00:03:44,319 also the integration of what should be a top whatever 68 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,360 pick it's a top five prospect. I think that becomes tricky. 69 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,400 I think what's encouraging for him this season, like you mentioned, 70 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,439 the ability to get downhill draw fouls. That's an element 71 00:03:54,479 --> 00:03:56,599 that this team needs from its perimeter player. 72 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,039 Speaker 2: Yeah. 73 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,919 Speaker 1: I also think what is super inch is that his 74 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,240 average dribbles per touch, his average touch time right in 75 00:04:04,319 --> 00:04:06,680 line with last year. And that's kind of a big 76 00:04:06,719 --> 00:04:11,159 deal because I don't think he's been quicker necessarily getting 77 00:04:11,199 --> 00:04:13,360 off the ball. The playmaking, I think clearly is just 78 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,000 never going to be there, even when he's driving and 79 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,279 collapsing defenses. He's just not going to do it enough. 80 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,800 But this would have been the season in which he 81 00:04:19,879 --> 00:04:24,120 had a license to operate and dominate the ball even more. 82 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:25,839 And so yes, the touches can be up, but the 83 00:04:25,879 --> 00:04:28,439 fact that he's not holding onto it and turning into 84 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,360 trying to turn into SGA or Jalen Brunson or someone 85 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,920 along those lines. I think is a fairly big deal. 86 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,360 I could if I were running the Pacers, I could 87 00:04:37,399 --> 00:04:40,120 go either way with it. What you mentioned about restrictive 88 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,680 free agency might be the most salient point. I don't 89 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,319 know what his value is in a trade, and so 90 00:04:45,399 --> 00:04:47,240 if you were to go out there and you identify 91 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,079 and need moving forward, that is greater than would Benedic 92 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,920 Maathrin provides you, and he can help you obtain a 93 00:04:53,959 --> 00:04:57,480 player who checks that box. I think you have to 94 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,399 be open to moving He's about to start a new contract. 95 00:04:59,439 --> 00:05:02,800 Your financial situation is gonna get progressively if you're depending 96 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,480 on how certain guys get paid. But at the same time, 97 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,920 what you mentioned about restricted free agency, it's not just 98 00:05:09,959 --> 00:05:13,160 about guys not cashing out. Teams don't even try to 99 00:05:13,199 --> 00:05:15,399 give him off for sheets anymore. We've mentioned it a 100 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,199 zillion times on this podcast. Paul Reid is the less 101 00:05:18,199 --> 00:05:20,759 restricted free agent to get an offer sheet. And the 102 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:25,319 other thing too. He's a different caliber of player, But 103 00:05:25,519 --> 00:05:29,639 look at what happened to kind of these guards wing 104 00:05:29,759 --> 00:05:32,639 types who were just imperfect and have deep gaps in 105 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,920 their game this past offseason, Jonathan Kaminga, Quentin Grimes, Cam Thomas. 106 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,000 Two of those three guys ended up signing the qualifying offer. Again, 107 00:05:40,079 --> 00:05:43,399 Benic Mathern is different. He has more size than Grimes 108 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,480 and certainly Cam Thomas. But I think if you were 109 00:05:46,519 --> 00:05:49,480 to pull NBA executives as to who is easier to 110 00:05:49,519 --> 00:05:52,600 fit on your team, They're gonna pick Quentin Grimes, A 111 00:05:52,639 --> 00:05:55,279 lot of them will probably prefer him. His better analog 112 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,720 might be Jonathan Kaminga. It's that there there's way more 113 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,680 proof of concept with Bennett. Like the stuff Benic Mathn' 114 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,439 is supposed to be good at, Bennedic Mathrin is actually 115 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,639 good at, whereas Jonathan Kamenka a lot of the stuff 116 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,879 you think or he's supposed to be good at. Yeah, 117 00:06:09,879 --> 00:06:12,319 he hasn't proven that he's good enough to deviate from 118 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,040 the core tenants with which Golden State wants to play. 119 00:06:15,079 --> 00:06:18,480 So I don't mean to say that Matherron is in 120 00:06:18,519 --> 00:06:21,240 the same exact boat as those guys, but I just 121 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:25,879 think as someone who is not quite a good defensive wing, 122 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,279 but he's also not someone who you can task with 123 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,920 running your offense. Any market for him on the outside, 124 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,000 I imagine would be finicky. My prediction would be just 125 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,720 Indiana's going to roll the dice played into restricted free agency. 126 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,120 What you risk there, though, because we just sawt this offseason, 127 00:06:42,199 --> 00:06:44,879 is do you want a messy negotiation like the Warriors 128 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:46,800 had with Jonathan Kamenka, or do you want to get 129 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:48,439 to a point where maybe he feels like he should 130 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,360 sign his qualifying offer? Or do you use the leverage 131 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,759 of what happened to basically all of those guys. Because 132 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,839 let's go into the summer. What if Quentin Grimes or 133 00:06:58,879 --> 00:07:01,560 Cam Thomas doesn't get paid or Jonathan Comingo is still 134 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,720 stuck on the Warriors because he has that team option, 135 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,360 nobody wants him. That's gonna have to be sort of 136 00:07:06,399 --> 00:07:08,800 a reality check for Benic Mathern. We're even betting on 137 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:13,079 himself with a short term deal or signing his qualifying 138 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,480 offer might not be the best path. Maybe there's something 139 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,120 like a jail in greenish contract outcome here. I'm not 140 00:07:20,199 --> 00:07:22,120 giving him three for one hundred, I want to make 141 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,240 that clear, but is it something along those lines. I 142 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,279 think he's ultimately still with the Pacers past the deadline, 143 00:07:28,319 --> 00:07:30,000 in part because I just don't know what is the 144 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,800 team that's coming in and saying, we'll give you a 145 00:07:31,839 --> 00:07:33,839 first round pick for Benic Mathred right now. 146 00:07:34,079 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: Right. It's funny you bring up one hundred million. That 147 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,399 was the number I had circled, but you said over 148 00:07:38,439 --> 00:07:40,120 three years because you compared it to the jail in 149 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,560 Green contract. I had a different amount of years in mind, 150 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:48,680 that was five. I was thinking twenty at a flat 151 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,959 rate throughout the entire contract, like five years one hundred, 152 00:07:52,399 --> 00:07:54,319 and that might be a little bit on the low end. 153 00:07:54,639 --> 00:07:59,160 But at the same time, who's out there who is 154 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,439 willing to go in and beat that offer? Like yeah, 155 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,399 you could then argue he might prefer a shorter deal 156 00:08:05,519 --> 00:08:08,240 to prove himself, and then all right, then you can 157 00:08:08,279 --> 00:08:10,360 probably say two years, like we can give you a 158 00:08:10,399 --> 00:08:13,439 long term deal where we get some benefit. If you're 159 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,800 the pacers, like five years one hundred, then say all right, 160 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:18,720 if you want a shorter term deal where you earn 161 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,720 a little bit more money, it's two years fifty so 162 00:08:21,839 --> 00:08:24,800 twenty five straight. But at the end of the day, 163 00:08:24,839 --> 00:08:27,040 I don't think the offer is that he's going to 164 00:08:27,079 --> 00:08:30,759 be looking for out there, so taking the security might 165 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,039 not be the worst thing in the world. One hundred 166 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:34,159 mil is still one hundred mil. 167 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,399 Speaker 1: Right, Well, I'm curious. Do the Pacers even go just 168 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,720 a flat twenty million dollars per season? 169 00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I mean they could. I mean they, I 170 00:08:47,039 --> 00:08:48,120 mean they could. 171 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: The question is should they? Will they? I don't his 172 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,440 it's so tough. I think this might just go for 173 00:08:55,519 --> 00:08:59,320 all non stars. At this point, were reaching a stage 174 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,360 where it's so to predict anyone's value. But these types 175 00:09:02,399 --> 00:09:07,039 of cases are just particularly tough to forecasts, and so 176 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,120 I keep coming back. I mean the other thing, there 177 00:09:11,159 --> 00:09:13,080 are teams that will have cap space or could have 178 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,039 a ton of flexibility. I just don't know what's the 179 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:16,960 team that's coming in and saying we're gonna give him 180 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,960 noticeably more than the fifteen million dollars non tax payermid level? 181 00:09:20,039 --> 00:09:22,480 Is is Atlanta with cap space? Gonna do that? Is 182 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,639 Washington with cap space? Gonna do that? Is Charlotte? If 183 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,440 they decide to go that route, going to do that Washington? 184 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:34,399 Speaker 2: That's interesting. It's absolutely not interesting, now I get it. 185 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,240 I'm saying it's interesting in the terms of, like there's 186 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,639 actually a team out there that could go in and 187 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,720 see some of these teams I hadn't considered them like 188 00:09:42,799 --> 00:09:47,519 as a you know, a trolling candidate. Teams with cap 189 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,600 space do have that going for them to a certain extent. 190 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: Do you think the Pacers are the team toatroll though? 191 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 2: Can they have four to lose like a significant talentship. 192 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:03,559 Speaker 1: When they have a top five pick coming in in 193 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,480 a healthy Halibert and I think they could probably talk 194 00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:06,200 themselves into it. 195 00:10:06,879 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair, that's fair. But I honestly, yeah, I 196 00:10:09,799 --> 00:10:11,879 would roll the dice if it's like, if it's the 197 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,159 if it's like for a twenty million a year, let's 198 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,039 just say that was the number, then I actually wouldn't 199 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,919 hate a gamble on it on Matherin in Washington necessarily, 200 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,519 even like, yeah, I don't love the fit next to Tray, 201 00:10:23,919 --> 00:10:26,919 I grant you that, But at that price point, I 202 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:32,519 mean you can move off of that deal presumably, right, sure. 203 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: I mean, what what is the offer for better? I 204 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,519 want to know what is Benedic math Inn viewed as 205 00:10:36,519 --> 00:10:38,679 around the league right now before I'm gonna say five 206 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:40,799 and one hundred. I look, I'm with you in the 207 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,200 sense that I think that would be movable. Is that 208 00:10:43,279 --> 00:10:45,320 a deal that I'm sure will be a net positive 209 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,519 moving forward, even though if you frame as a percentage 210 00:10:47,519 --> 00:10:50,080 of the salary cap, what is that gonna be less 211 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:51,000 than fifteen percent? 212 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 2: So about twelve percent? 213 00:10:54,519 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, So framed that way, sure, it's it's fine. I'm 214 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,559 five years and one hundred just seems like that's an 215 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,960 awfully long time to go out because if he doesn't 216 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,440 pop or doesn't get any better, is it again? He 217 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,279 could be moved, but he does. He approach Obi top 218 00:11:09,279 --> 00:11:11,639 In territory to where it's all right, the contract is fine, 219 00:11:11,639 --> 00:11:13,639 You're not gonna get anything for it. The contract is 220 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:14,159 just fine. 221 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,799 Speaker 2: I personally I view him as someone who is probably 222 00:11:20,879 --> 00:11:25,159 going to go above the Obi toppin category. But I 223 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,120 do think your concerns are valid because as we know, 224 00:11:30,279 --> 00:11:33,879 he is not someone who's going to be the feature 225 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,399 point of an offense first and foremost, like he is 226 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,000 going to be a complimentary score. We know the defense 227 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:45,080 is inconsistent is probably the best word I have. So 228 00:11:45,639 --> 00:11:49,519 what you're really looking at is where are we seeing improvements? 229 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,600 Is there something he's done in terms of like the 230 00:11:51,639 --> 00:11:53,919 improvement over the first four years of his career that 231 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:55,960 we can bang on that where we trust he's going 232 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,919 to get significantly better. I do trust these equality rebound. 233 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,279 I think he changed that two years ago and that's stuck. 234 00:12:02,919 --> 00:12:05,080 I do think the three point shots he's displayed this 235 00:12:05,159 --> 00:12:08,519 year is a such low volume or so sorry, such 236 00:12:08,519 --> 00:12:11,679 a small sample size that I can't quite trust it yet, 237 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:13,480 but I'm at least open to it. Like he's never 238 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,000 had one of those egregious three point shooting seasons if 239 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,639 you catch my drift where he's like in the mid twenties, 240 00:12:20,039 --> 00:12:22,200 Like he's always been at a point where I'm like, 241 00:12:22,519 --> 00:12:26,639 you know, I at least trust him to be somewhat 242 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,759 average in that department, if not better. Like the free 243 00:12:30,799 --> 00:12:34,240 frow percentage has always been quite good, even on high volume, 244 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,039 so like there's some upside there. I feel like his 245 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,960 base is a little higher than we give him credit for. 246 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,519 But at the same time, I think we're also in 247 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:49,080 agreement that his ceiling is very much a fluid concept. Yeah, 248 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:49,799 that's a concern. 249 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,639 Speaker 1: I think that's why you probably let it ride into 250 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,559 restricted free agency. Although this would lead me to my 251 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,679 next question here. The Pacers are in a unique situation 252 00:12:59,759 --> 00:13:01,759 because as they are going to be bad, I mean, 253 00:13:01,759 --> 00:13:04,519 they've been pretty frisky. As we're recording this. It's that 254 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,279 Pascal Siakam Johnny Furphy front court is really coming in. 255 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,559 It might be the future in all seriousness though, because 256 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:12,759 you have Tyre's Haliburton coming back, because you're going to 257 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,000 have this high level, high level draft pick, assuming you 258 00:13:16,039 --> 00:13:17,559 don't have to give up that draft pick. If you're 259 00:13:17,639 --> 00:13:21,759 the Pacers, are you considering not you know, going like 260 00:13:21,879 --> 00:13:25,320 mortgaging everything, but oh, we're trying to get someone at 261 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,960 this trade deadline that qualifies as a bye because we 262 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,639 believe they could be part of our program into next 263 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:32,519 season and beyond. 264 00:13:33,519 --> 00:13:36,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it's a bad strategy. The question 265 00:13:37,039 --> 00:13:39,080 is who do you give up? Like, are is it 266 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,279 math ring your tankling or are you trying to get 267 00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:44,840 off other pieces instead? Like because I have I have 268 00:13:44,879 --> 00:13:46,399 a name that I want to bring up to you 269 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,600 now that we're talking about the Pacers well before so yeah. 270 00:13:49,399 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: I guess before we get to a name, is what 271 00:13:50,919 --> 00:13:55,200 do you view as their biggest need? Oh? 272 00:13:55,279 --> 00:13:57,759 Speaker 2: Get for it seemed that is struggling to this extent, 273 00:13:57,799 --> 00:14:01,519 who lost their starting center and free agents. See, it's 274 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:05,080 like you can point the finger in so many different ways. 275 00:14:05,159 --> 00:14:08,279 I'm probably going to say, like primary big Man because 276 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,759 Siakam is, you know, a power forward. I don't think 277 00:14:11,799 --> 00:14:15,840 he's a natural center by Henny Stretch, you know. So 278 00:14:16,879 --> 00:14:20,879 a primary, defensive oriented big Man will probably top my list. 279 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:26,080 But I'm open for ideas at this point because again, 280 00:14:26,159 --> 00:14:29,320 I'm one of those skeptical people when it comes to 281 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,440 the Achilles things as well. Dan, like you know this, 282 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,600 I just don't have any guarantee that Tyreus Halburton is 283 00:14:36,639 --> 00:14:39,120 going to come back and be you know, Tyrese Haliburton. 284 00:14:39,799 --> 00:14:41,720 So if there's a deal out there where I can 285 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,480 get a point guard for ten cents on the dollar, 286 00:14:46,159 --> 00:14:49,360 I'm exploring. I'm not prioritizing it, but I'm exploring it. 287 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,679 So I'm not sitting here going, well, we only need 288 00:14:52,679 --> 00:14:56,879 this one precision layer, or we need this this. I mean, yeah, 289 00:14:56,879 --> 00:14:58,879 I have it in priorities, but I'm not closing the 290 00:14:58,919 --> 00:15:02,159 door on anything. But I guns in my head I 291 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:03,799 would say big Man primary center. 292 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: I would agree with you. I'm wondering, though, the thing 293 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:10,320 you mentioned about Tyre's Haliburton having that uncertainty of what 294 00:15:10,399 --> 00:15:14,279 does he look like upon return? Does that prohibit you 295 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,600 or force you to before you go and say, oh, 296 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,559 if we identify a primary big man that we can 297 00:15:18,559 --> 00:15:20,519 get now, but it's going to cost us giving up 298 00:15:20,519 --> 00:15:23,159 our twenty twenty seven first round pick or just assets 299 00:15:23,159 --> 00:15:27,000 in general. Does that make you more hesitant to do it, though, 300 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,000 because that's the push and pulls. It's oh, you can 301 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,519 look at it. Tyrs Haliburton's back. We're going to resume 302 00:15:31,559 --> 00:15:34,960 contending for titles or at least running the Eastern Conference. 303 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,480 Of course, we want someone who. But you could also 304 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,639 play the other side and say, we don't know if 305 00:15:39,639 --> 00:15:42,080 this is ankilles injuries they're still really serious. What if 306 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,080 he needs a year, or what if it's just never 307 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,200 the same again? Give I mean this is a team 308 00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:49,759 that plays a frenetic style, even defically when it's in 309 00:15:49,799 --> 00:15:52,919 the half court and slowing things down with peak Tyre's Haliburton, 310 00:15:53,279 --> 00:15:56,240 and so I've had that push and pull going back 311 00:15:56,279 --> 00:15:58,320 and forth in my mind. If push comes to shove 312 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,039 and it's a big man for me too, I think 313 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:02,960 you could talk to yourself into maybe some different options 314 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,919 on the wings. Of course, But if I say, oh, 315 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,159 center X, I really like that fit and I can 316 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,559 get him from the Pacers are probably doing it within reason. 317 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:14,159 But that has to be in the back of your 318 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,519 mind of, well, we don't want to prematurely accelerate our 319 00:16:18,519 --> 00:16:22,559 position or or or operate off this baseline that we 320 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,080 had last year before Tyres Haliburton got injured and just 321 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,240 assume we're gonna resume it when he comes back. 322 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 2: Right. So I've had that thought as well, and I've 323 00:16:32,279 --> 00:16:36,399 landed specifically on I am not relinquishing, you know, first 324 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,559 round draft picks. I'm just not not until I've you know, 325 00:16:40,639 --> 00:16:45,080 crossed that threshold of seeing Tyree Spack and you know, 326 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,600 being who he used to be. I am making that 327 00:16:47,679 --> 00:16:52,159 draft pick in this this June absolutely I am. I 328 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,240 am not relinquishing the twenty seven pick. I'm not relinquishing 329 00:16:55,279 --> 00:16:59,639 future draft equity whatsoever at this point until I'm damn 330 00:16:59,759 --> 00:17:02,320 sure or that the team I have in the fold 331 00:17:02,639 --> 00:17:05,759 is healthy TERESI is back to normal and things are 332 00:17:05,759 --> 00:17:08,920 working out. That's where I am. But you know me, 333 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,119 I'm also one of those, you know, the extra seat 334 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,559 belt type of guys. I mean, I don't want to 335 00:17:13,559 --> 00:17:17,160 go out there and swing unnecessarily. That's not how I 336 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,880 do things. I would definitely play this very very cautiously. 337 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,279 Speaker 1: So who are the targets you have in mind for 338 00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:27,039 them if you're I'm fascinated by the name too, because 339 00:17:27,559 --> 00:17:29,920 if you're planning to make an upgrade without giving up 340 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,640 any draft equity, I think that it's gonna narrow your 341 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,680 scope of potential targets significantly. 342 00:17:35,759 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 2: Right, And that's where things become tricky, because they don't 343 00:17:40,039 --> 00:17:42,480 really have a lot of those deals that make sense 344 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,119 for a lot of teams. And that's why I actually 345 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,119 wanted to talk to you about someone specifically. So Jars 346 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,480 Walker is a guy who I loved coming into the draft. 347 00:17:52,079 --> 00:17:54,960 He struggled. I think that's the kind way to phrase 348 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,519 that this has not been a good year for him. 349 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,920 We thought now that he'd give given more minutes, that 350 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,599 he'd explode and begun this you know all around power forward, 351 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,880 that he was pegged ass. But he's just not converting 352 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,920 at a good rate whatsoever. His feel for the ball, 353 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,799 while still good, has just that manifested itself well into 354 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:20,480 you know, consistent production. I want to say so it's 355 00:18:20,519 --> 00:18:23,039 because he's the primary trade candidate for me in terms 356 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,880 of like they get to avoid an extension talk and 357 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,400 restricted free agent down the line, But does he have 358 00:18:29,519 --> 00:18:32,839 value around the league? Like there are certain games where 359 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,160 he's just playing his ass off and where you're seeing 360 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,279 you know, he had a game against Miami the other 361 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:43,480 day and he looks so good. He was like he 362 00:18:43,559 --> 00:18:46,799 did all the things you saw when he was at 363 00:18:46,839 --> 00:18:49,319 Houston in college. Like he was passing the ball, he 364 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,759 was defending, he was rebounding, he was hitting threes, he 365 00:18:51,799 --> 00:18:54,799 was doing everything. But that just comes in chunks here 366 00:18:54,839 --> 00:18:57,920 and there. It's like not a consistent pattern. Does he 367 00:18:58,039 --> 00:19:00,160 have trade value to go get a big man? Like? 368 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,519 Does he? Is he the one you can dangle for 369 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,680 someone who has a backup center who can fill in 370 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,559 starting wise? I don't know the answer to that question. 371 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: I think it it probably just this is stupid, but 372 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,839 it probably matters the type of big man that you're 373 00:19:12,839 --> 00:19:14,839 talking about. If you were to go to Brooklyn and 374 00:19:14,839 --> 00:19:19,160 say jars Walker for Dayron Sharp, I imagine they would 375 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,279 consider something like that. But are you ready to give 376 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,160 up on And I'm with you for the most part 377 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,359 everything you said about JAREDS. Walker's shooting has been way 378 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,759 better by and large than I would have expected down 379 00:19:27,799 --> 00:19:29,680 this year. But he's a forty three percent from three 380 00:19:29,759 --> 00:19:34,559 over the past month or so. I I don't I'll 381 00:19:34,559 --> 00:19:37,000 put it this way. I don't think he's getting if 382 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:38,839 you just put him as a standalone value. I don't 383 00:19:38,839 --> 00:19:40,920 even know if he would get you the number twenty 384 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,119 five pick. And then, like, I just don't think you're 385 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:44,599 getting a first round pick for him if you were 386 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,359 just to put him on the market for draft equity, 387 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,359 you're looking at seconds. And so I think any big 388 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,039 man that you're hoping to get for him has to 389 00:19:51,079 --> 00:19:54,000 be maybe commeasure it with that, because I mean, we 390 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,920 could go super low level of the Grizzlies as they 391 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,000 begin to initiate their rebuild, like they might consider giving 392 00:19:59,039 --> 00:20:01,440 you a Jock land Ellen a Jaris Walker trade. But 393 00:20:01,559 --> 00:20:04,039 is that, like, are we at that point with Jarres 394 00:20:04,039 --> 00:20:05,359 Walker as the Pacers? 395 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,519 Speaker 2: That's my question. Dayron Sharp is a good name. Those 396 00:20:09,559 --> 00:20:14,640 two salaries aligne almost perfectly as well. That's interesting. That's 397 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,400 actually really interesting because the Nets aren't interested in winning 398 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,240 this year anyway. They take on a guy who's a 399 00:20:21,279 --> 00:20:24,720 former lottery selection who they can sort of mold in 400 00:20:24,759 --> 00:20:28,519 their own vision. Would you do that? It's yourret idea, 401 00:20:28,559 --> 00:20:30,160 but would you do it if you're the Pacers? 402 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: I have no idea the idea of giving up on 403 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,720 Jaris Walker to get what I assume they would prefer 404 00:20:37,759 --> 00:20:39,920 to be their backup big man rather than they were 405 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,720 a stop gap starter for next year is just rings hollow. 406 00:20:43,759 --> 00:20:46,599 But I also don't know, what are you doing better 407 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,200 than that? What is the And I think that's the 408 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,079 trouble is he? I think you could also wonder though, Okay, 409 00:20:52,079 --> 00:20:54,599 you get Dayron Sharp, but Walker is going to be 410 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,440 making more money. Do you view him as better because 411 00:20:57,599 --> 00:21:00,599 he'll be functionally an expiring contract next year, more valuable 412 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,680 to you as matching salary as part of a larger 413 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,000 deal over the summer in the middle of next year. 414 00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:07,039 That might be something that they need to weigh as well. 415 00:21:08,599 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 2: Man at I never thought, especially this early in his career, 416 00:21:13,039 --> 00:21:15,400 that we'd be talking about Jars Walker as someone who 417 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,519 could help you match salary. That is not where I 418 00:21:19,559 --> 00:21:23,200 thought his career would go at this soon at least, 419 00:21:23,519 --> 00:21:24,240 that is wild. 420 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 1: Who is the name that you had in mind? I 421 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:28,599 thought you had a name in mind. 422 00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:31,079 Speaker 2: No, I didn't have a specific name mind. I So 423 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,839 I was looking at and again, this is a rental, 424 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,160 but he's an unrestricted free agent. So I kind of 425 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:38,920 thought like, if you can shed some money and then 426 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,359 re sign him over the course of summer. I was 427 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,160 looking at Sack Collins like someone of that ilk who 428 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,759 can like step outside, he can play starter minutes, he 429 00:21:47,839 --> 00:21:50,440 rebounds at a pretty good rate, he can pass the ball. 430 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:55,200 He's also effing injured all the time, which is not 431 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,759 exactly something that the pacers would find attractive. But I 432 00:21:59,599 --> 00:22:02,440 was thinking king of going the route of overpriced centers 433 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,720 that are expiring, who you could then re sign at 434 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,319 a much more reasonable rate in. 435 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: Say that Vooch's music. 436 00:22:09,279 --> 00:22:12,759 Speaker 2: So I didn't bring up Vouch specifically because uh, he's 437 00:22:12,839 --> 00:22:16,039 just so old man and like I, I wouldn't do 438 00:22:16,079 --> 00:22:20,200 that to the pacers. Like he's durable, but for how long? No, 439 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,200 I mean he's firdy five. Come on, he's firdy five. 440 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,200 If you want to build something with Halliburn and you're 441 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,160 at least got to find someone who's somewhat on his timeline. 442 00:22:29,319 --> 00:22:35,000 But I will get Vooch this. He's durable. He's really durable. 443 00:22:35,519 --> 00:22:39,599 So if that matters to you as an organization, sure, 444 00:22:40,279 --> 00:22:43,000 I don't mind. I was thinking Colin specifically, because he, 445 00:22:43,319 --> 00:22:45,839 like Hys, he fit the gap a little bit more. 446 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,319 Speaker 1: Now I think the name that's been bandied about a 447 00:22:49,319 --> 00:22:51,480 lot for them, it runs counter to your vision of 448 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,640 what they should be doing with their assets. Has been 449 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,519 a Vita Zoo bots. Do you like his fit? Look 450 00:22:57,519 --> 00:22:59,720 if the cost ends up being your matching salary with 451 00:22:59,759 --> 00:23:03,519 Matt Thrin Walker and the twenty twenty seven first round pick, 452 00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:07,200 is that something you're considering or do you? And I didn't, 453 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,440 so I just refreshed. I have a trade deadline big 454 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,920 board at bleacher Report with my top three trade targets 455 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,720 for every team. I still have a Vita Zoo box 456 00:23:15,759 --> 00:23:18,000 on the Pacers big board. But I thought more and 457 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,920 more about taking him off because I wondered if he 458 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,160 could hold up under the style that they would want 459 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,119 to play with Tyres Haliburton. I think he he moves 460 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,160 his feet better and can play faster than you think, 461 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,000 But it was just a question in the back of 462 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,920 my mind, and so I found myself wondering. I don't 463 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,599 know if the Clippers would do that deal, but as 464 00:23:34,599 --> 00:23:36,680 the Pacers, I've thought more and more about, oh, would 465 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,559 I do that deal? And I think I still might 466 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,039 lean towards yes, But it's it's not as much as 467 00:23:42,079 --> 00:23:44,240 a no brainer to me as I think it is 468 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:45,359 for a lot of other people. 469 00:23:46,279 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, you were saying, Matherine Jaris Walker and the twenty 470 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:55,839 seven pick for Soupbuch. Yeah, that's a little rich for me, 471 00:23:56,079 --> 00:23:59,039 a little rich really. Yeah. And I, by the way, 472 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,480 I am not a super whatsoever. That's that's still a 473 00:24:02,519 --> 00:24:03,200 little rich for. 474 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: Me because my guests would be the clipper say no 475 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,319 to that trade. 476 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 2: And then I would argue that that's probably good for 477 00:24:10,759 --> 00:24:13,559 the pacers if they decline that, because I wouldn't go 478 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,640 that far. And again, I love the guy, but I 479 00:24:17,079 --> 00:24:20,839 do think there is a scenario where in you know, 480 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,720 it's very matchup dependent, but in the playoffs, I do 481 00:24:23,759 --> 00:24:25,960 think his lack of spacing can hurt you and he 482 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,480 can't be played off the floor a little bit if 483 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,200 you'll force to switch on him and get him up high. 484 00:24:30,279 --> 00:24:32,319 I do like you said, I do think he moves 485 00:24:32,319 --> 00:24:34,880 his feet well, but there are just certain matchups where 486 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:40,279 I just wouldn't trust him. Like it's a good name 487 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,799 for that specific package, I think is a little rich. 488 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,240 Remove the twenty seven pick and yeah, all right, then 489 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,440 we're in business. But that's obviously I know that's the 490 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:55,359 main cookie going back, So like I get it. That's yeah, 491 00:24:55,759 --> 00:24:59,880 he's not underwhelming. It's not that, it's just he's a 492 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,279 to turn twenty nine. I the non spacing thing annoys 493 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:05,480 me a little bit. I just. 494 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: You forget about get ability. Then what is the do 495 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,799 you have an ideal big for them? 496 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 2: So that's why I actually brought up Sack Collins because 497 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,799 of his skill set like that, I kind of ignored 498 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,559 his his injury concerns. I don't necessarily want a center 499 00:25:23,599 --> 00:25:27,480 in there who is, you know, close to all star caliber, which, 500 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,880 in fairness, you know Sue is probably closer to all 501 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,839 star caliber than and most people actually recognize he's he's 502 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,559 very very good. Someone who can you can have, who 503 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,400 can do it a little bit of everything. I need 504 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,079 someone who's a bit of a connector, like give me 505 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,880 a center version of Bruce Brown. That was my thinking, 506 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,960 and that was why Sack Collins kind of popped into 507 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,480 my head because I think he kind of fits that criteria. 508 00:25:50,759 --> 00:25:55,119 I want someone who isn't just you know, a So 509 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,680 I basically took Miles Turner. I said, what, like, what 510 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,519 were the issues there? One? Not a great rebounder. The 511 00:26:01,599 --> 00:26:06,240 shooting was decent, but it wasn't particularly consistent he didn't 512 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,039 always move the ball as well as other big men can, Like, 513 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,519 I need someone who can move the ball, especially the elbows, 514 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:14,920 and so it just kind of started picking apart a 515 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:19,400 little bit and for me to optimize Hallipper and in 516 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:24,720 particular a Sack Collins type, not Zack Collins necessarily, but 517 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:29,000 a Sack Collins type just to me fit the bill. 518 00:26:29,279 --> 00:26:32,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's uh. I don't know that. Maybe I'm just 519 00:26:32,079 --> 00:26:35,160 having trouble imagining your vision because you're using Zach Collins 520 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:36,319 as the example. 521 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,519 Speaker 2: Because we haven't seen him play for a long time. 522 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,279 Speaker 1: He's played in ten games this year and he's had 523 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,680 You mentioned the shooting. He's been above average from three 524 00:26:43,759 --> 00:26:45,640 I think twice in his career. 525 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, I might be romantical. Yeah, it's fair. I might 526 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,759 be romanticizing the shooting. I used to see him in 527 00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:54,519 season where he shot the ball well and that might 528 00:26:54,559 --> 00:26:55,000 have stuck. 529 00:26:55,519 --> 00:26:57,519 Speaker 1: And I know that part of this can be attributed 530 00:26:57,559 --> 00:26:58,960 to the way that they're going to play, but I 531 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,160 would also like someone who would be more of a 532 00:27:01,279 --> 00:27:04,759 rim deterrent and that's just not no, it's not him 533 00:27:04,759 --> 00:27:06,759 at all. And to be fair, Miles Turner, like when 534 00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:08,440 you look at the sheriff shots that came at the 535 00:27:08,519 --> 00:27:12,799 rim for Indiana's opponents over the years, Like that wasn't him. 536 00:27:13,279 --> 00:27:17,519 It would be, though Collins offensively, I guess I understand, 537 00:27:17,519 --> 00:27:19,559 because it doesn't force you to move away from what 538 00:27:19,599 --> 00:27:22,680 you were doing. And then in theory, if defenses are 539 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,119 even respecting him a little bit, you do still have 540 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,519 the room for Haliburton Siakam to work. TJ. McConnell, Andrew Nemhart. 541 00:27:29,559 --> 00:27:30,359 Of course. 542 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 2: There's an agend though there's a different name that's better. 543 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:39,079 But that's the thing is he's not particularly gettable because again, 544 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,720 the Pistons got better. I say Stuart, like that's something 545 00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:42,200 that he be. 546 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: He'd be terrific for this team here. 547 00:27:43,799 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 2: Really would the three point shooting, the defense, the rebounding. 548 00:27:48,559 --> 00:27:52,960 But again that him and players of his ilk who 549 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,720 has that level of skill in those specific areas, they 550 00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,960 are just going to cost you an arm and a leg. 551 00:28:00,519 --> 00:28:03,559 And I wonder if that's worth it for the pacers, 552 00:28:03,599 --> 00:28:06,079 Like I see a Stuart, how what would that cost be? 553 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,880 Would that be like the twenty six pick with only 554 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:11,359 a small level of protection. 555 00:28:14,599 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: I don't, I do not know, just because Detroit is 556 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,200 just so win Now that I think they could try 557 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,039 to charge a but I think it would be commeasure 558 00:28:24,079 --> 00:28:27,039 it with whatever it would cost to get zubots, unless 559 00:28:27,039 --> 00:28:29,279 you're the one, you know, running that trade, in which 560 00:28:29,279 --> 00:28:31,920 case you're gonna offer you know, Obi toppin to the 561 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,079 Clippers for zubots and you're gonna want the Clippers first 562 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,200 round pick in a couple of years too. It sounds like, yeah, 563 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:43,359 So that's I think the center position is. That's like 564 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,240 kind of a tough fill for them because I don't 565 00:28:46,279 --> 00:28:49,039 even know how open are they to, Like they've kind 566 00:28:49,079 --> 00:28:51,480 of tried the different archetype stuff where you see Jay 567 00:28:51,519 --> 00:28:54,359 Huff getting minutes, but like we've seen Siakaman Furfey play 568 00:28:54,359 --> 00:28:56,799 in the front court. They were hoping Isaiah Jackson would 569 00:28:56,799 --> 00:28:59,000 be like a kind of change of pay center getting 570 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,720 away from the Oh we need floor spacing or a 571 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,079 ton of floor spacing from that spot. So would they 572 00:29:04,079 --> 00:29:06,319 be more And I don't know how big of a 573 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,440 swing would they be looking to make, because zubots would 574 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,039 be a big swing. I say a Stewart would be 575 00:29:11,079 --> 00:29:13,680 a big swing. Jared Allen if he became available to 576 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,640 be a big swing or are they just more comfortable 577 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,920 saying we prefer to roll the dice on like a 578 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,160 Daniel Gafford type. Just someone's squarely in the middle of everything. 579 00:29:22,759 --> 00:29:25,799 Speaker 2: That's a good name. I like that. Daniel Cafferty is 580 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,799 I hadn't connected the those two. That's interesting. 581 00:29:28,799 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: You know, I wouldn't mind, or maybe I would love 582 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:36,160 Nicholas Claxton. M I just love Nicholas Claxton in general, 583 00:29:36,319 --> 00:29:38,240 but yeah, that would be a fun one of the 584 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,920 floor spacing elements not there. But he's shown some playmaking 585 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,359 this year. We know he could speak and put the 586 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:42,960 ball on the floor. 587 00:29:43,039 --> 00:29:46,039 Speaker 2: Good. Yeah, he's been really good passing the ball, and 588 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,400 to his credit, a lot of his passes at least 589 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,039 this is the eye test talking. I haven't backed it 590 00:29:52,119 --> 00:29:53,640 up with statu yet, but it feels like a lot 591 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,640 of his passes are to Noah Clownley when he's coming 592 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,880 off screens and Clowney is just getting them up. Like 593 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,559 Clowney is not hinting that three at a notable rate, 594 00:30:02,759 --> 00:30:05,799 but he's getting those bad boys up. So like, I'm wondering, 595 00:30:05,839 --> 00:30:08,920 if you just replaze Clowney with a good shooter, would 596 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,720 Nick Claxon like five and a half asis per game? 597 00:30:11,759 --> 00:30:14,720 This year, Like, I think that's a really good player 598 00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:18,119 to bring up. That's that's an interesting subplot there for him, 599 00:30:18,519 --> 00:30:21,400 a good landing spot too, and h wise alligance with 600 00:30:21,599 --> 00:30:25,279 Syreez pretty well too. He's like twenty five twenty six. 601 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he can you know, he can play fast, 602 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,400 although injuries in the past have been a concern, right two, 603 00:30:31,599 --> 00:30:34,359 that'd be something to consider. But the contract is reasonable enough. 604 00:30:34,599 --> 00:30:37,279 What is it basically twenty five flat right every year? 605 00:30:37,319 --> 00:30:41,839 And so I'd be curious what he So I think 606 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,039 Zubots gets more in just a trade. I think Zubots 607 00:30:46,039 --> 00:30:49,440 would be pricier to get if you were looking at 608 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,799 Isaiah Stewart or Nick Claxton. And just the Piston situation 609 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,240 means everything. So it probably costs more to get Isaiah 610 00:30:56,279 --> 00:31:01,599 Stewart than Nick Claxton as well. What Fiel's declining, so 611 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,039 he's I didn't even realize. I forgot about that. So 612 00:31:04,079 --> 00:31:06,799 he's got twenty three point one next year and then 613 00:31:06,839 --> 00:31:08,680 twenty one the year after that. So the fact that 614 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,240 it's declining, and that's a number where if it works out, 615 00:31:11,279 --> 00:31:13,319 you can totally extend him off it. 616 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,559 Speaker 2: What about a it's a big swing because he's constantly injured, 617 00:31:19,559 --> 00:31:22,759 but maybe a change of scenery could get him, you know, 618 00:31:23,079 --> 00:31:23,680 fixed up. 619 00:31:24,519 --> 00:31:28,359 Speaker 1: Derek Lively, I would love for a team to just 620 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:29,200 take a random fly. 621 00:31:29,279 --> 00:31:30,039 Speaker 2: He would be fun. 622 00:31:30,599 --> 00:31:33,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, But it's I mean, we're talking about injuries and 623 00:31:33,759 --> 00:31:38,279 the Pacers are just not having a non Miles Turner division. 624 00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:40,319 It just felt like so many of their big men 625 00:31:40,319 --> 00:31:42,000 were always injured. That was the I think that was 626 00:31:42,039 --> 00:31:44,839 just the Isaiah Jackson James Weisman just both getting injured. 627 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 2: Last year was brutal with the same injury that didn't help. 628 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,359 Speaker 1: That's I don't even know what do you give up 629 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,000 for derekly No, if the Mavericks just came right now 630 00:31:55,039 --> 00:31:58,279 and said Derek Lively for Benancmather and it doesn't actually work, 631 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,400 But I don't think the Pacers do that. 632 00:32:03,799 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 2: No, that's a little aggressive, right, because you're just gambling 633 00:32:07,519 --> 00:32:09,680 on someone who you don't even know will play more 634 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,359 than what fifty games thinks to you. 635 00:32:11,799 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: And we also, I mean, they have Tyres Halbert, and 636 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:14,799 that's what I say. We don't know how does he 637 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,359 fare independent really of the Luka vacuum, But it's I mean, 638 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,880 you have Tyres Haliburt, you'll be fine there, but yeah, 639 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,519 the hell thing, that would have been an interesting name 640 00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:25,279 though I thought about He's probably just two and Atlanta's 641 00:32:25,319 --> 00:32:26,599 not looking to trade him. But I'll just name on 642 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,240 Yuka Kunglu for every team that. 643 00:32:28,279 --> 00:32:30,839 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I want to be that's fun. Yeah, especially 644 00:32:30,839 --> 00:32:32,960 with a three point shot at it. Mm hmm. 645 00:32:34,799 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 1: That might be if you're looking for the ideal be like, 646 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,720 can you don't get else? Like yeah, maybe on Yuka Kunglu, 647 00:32:41,839 --> 00:32:43,839 but like an injure too taller that might be there, 648 00:32:44,079 --> 00:32:46,200 that might be their ideal big man at this point. 649 00:32:46,359 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 2: Yes, can we figure this out? By the way, so 650 00:32:48,799 --> 00:32:51,279 Onyeka until last year was listed at six to eight. 651 00:32:51,359 --> 00:32:54,039 Now every official channel has him at six'. Ten has 652 00:32:54,079 --> 00:32:58,880 he grown because if he's legitimately six,' ten my undersized 653 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,519 comment that is just. 654 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,359 Speaker 1: Is muted he maybe he was wearing, different shoes but. 655 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,799 Speaker 2: Isn't ISN'T the nba aren't they supposed to actually measure 656 00:33:09,839 --> 00:33:11,440 guys NOW barefoot. 657 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,519 Speaker 1: I thought it was like kind Of The wild west 658 00:33:13,519 --> 00:33:14,319 with that stuff at. 659 00:33:14,319 --> 00:33:17,079 Speaker 2: This point now they tried to like make. 660 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,079 Speaker 1: IT serious i think let's here's. The Test What's kevin 661 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,319 durant listed at right? Right now because that's been fluid 662 00:33:24,319 --> 00:33:26,519 for the past. Two decades he's listed at, six eleven 663 00:33:26,559 --> 00:33:30,079 so it does seem like they're going with more, truer listings. 664 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 2: Right because he was six' nine for. A, long time yeah, 665 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,000 so if. 666 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,839 Speaker 1: Look if HE'S a true i feel like that's a 667 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,319 generally listed SIX ten when. I watch, him but. 668 00:33:40,039 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 2: Yeah he doesn't he doesn't play six ten. All THE time, 669 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,720 but i mean, If he grew I'm not gonna i'm 670 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,480 not gonna sit here and. Argue against that that'd be 671 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:50,000 great Six. 672 00:33:50,119 --> 00:33:54,279 Speaker 1: Ten on kong give me this is it's interesting to like, 673 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,359 throw targets around but do you actually see It feels 674 00:33:57,359 --> 00:34:00,119 LIKE gafford and i don't even necessarily love His, fit 675 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,400 in indiana but that seems like the type of move 676 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,200 maybe he would. Make, this season otherwise it feels very 677 00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:08,280 much they'll recalibrate over the offseason on, a bigger move 678 00:34:08,559 --> 00:34:11,559 or they might even wait until the middle of next 679 00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:14,320 year when they have a better Feel For who. TYRES 680 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:15,719 haliburton is i. 681 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,039 Speaker 2: AGREE with that i think the most important thing for 682 00:34:18,079 --> 00:34:20,960 them is just not relinquishing future assets in terms of, 683 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,920 like draft equity and then also trying to figure out 684 00:34:24,039 --> 00:34:26,119 how do we pivot, Off certain contracts like if you 685 00:34:26,119 --> 00:34:29,719 can get off, OF opiitabin contract i. Wouldn't hate that 686 00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:33,480 the question is who's going to take on the remaining 687 00:34:33,599 --> 00:34:36,960 pretty one million he has? After this year is that 688 00:34:37,039 --> 00:34:41,159 going to be? An Attractive. CONTRACT aaron nesmith i. Love the, 689 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:47,079 extension he's played just not that. Great this year he's. 690 00:34:47,079 --> 00:34:49,199 Also been injured he's missed, half the season so like fair, 691 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,239 to be fair but that's. Not been great is that 692 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,079 a contract you're looking to get rid of or are you're? 693 00:34:55,119 --> 00:34:59,000 Saying maybe accurately so it's a twenty. Game sample size calm, the. 694 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: Fuck Down man if, I'M another team I would the 695 00:35:03,199 --> 00:35:06,159 pacers showed Any, INCLINATION to oh i Don't, KNOW about 696 00:35:06,199 --> 00:35:07,199 aaron i would absolutely. 697 00:35:07,199 --> 00:35:10,199 Speaker 2: Be, blowing, NOW yeah YEAH i think, I would too 698 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,239 so that might, Answer, the question actually. 699 00:35:13,519 --> 00:35:18,079 Speaker 1: Do you have anything Else? On the PACERS. 700 00:35:17,159 --> 00:35:20,760 Speaker 2: Only that i think going, into, this, offseason oh sorry, 701 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,360 this off season trade the line first? Off season, Afterwards 702 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,639 They yeah like i'm basically going to be repeating. MYSELF 703 00:35:28,639 --> 00:35:31,679 from earlier i don't think they should go, in, and 704 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,559 say oh the point guard position is. ALL in lock 705 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:39,280 i think they shouldn't be open, to exploring everything just to. 706 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,199 Be absolutely sure i'm not saying this should Go In. 707 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,360 On john moran i'm not saying that should Go In 708 00:35:43,679 --> 00:35:47,280 the metal ball any. Of that stuff just if there 709 00:35:47,639 --> 00:35:50,039 is an upgrade to be found, that is good, THAT 710 00:35:50,119 --> 00:35:53,159 comes cheap i think everything should. 711 00:35:53,199 --> 00:35:57,639 Speaker 1: BE in play i don't know how you say that 712 00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,960 until YOU see what i think, you're talking about An Upgrade. 713 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 2: From, tyrese, haliburton, No no no i'm saying As someone 714 00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:05,360 like i'm not necessary as, saying an upgrade but like 715 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,480 it wouldn't hurt to at least have some more depth, 716 00:36:08,519 --> 00:36:11,679 at that position BECAUSE you know tj. Is Getting older 717 00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:15,679 andrew neimhart he's done. Well this year is he someone 718 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,000 who you trust to run that? Position Moving forward if 719 00:36:20,199 --> 00:36:22,000 tyree's is, going to, be you know an in and 720 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,480 out of the lineup type of guy for at least 721 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,159 the next, YEAR or so i don't know the. ANSWER 722 00:36:27,199 --> 00:36:29,480 to that i think. He's DONE well but I still 723 00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:32,880 like nimhart more as someone who plays. Off elite guard 724 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,000 is the being, A ELITE guard but i think. Look 725 00:36:37,159 --> 00:36:41,440 splitting cares my point is this just be open. Minded, 726 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:42,920 TO everything. 727 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: Yeah i think if you're talking about someone you envision 728 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,760 being you want to upgrade. The, backup POSITION sure but 729 00:36:50,199 --> 00:36:53,559 i also. To Correct ourselves ernie smith can't be, traded 730 00:36:53,639 --> 00:36:56,599 because yeah. 731 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 2: That's that's, fair so. 732 00:36:59,639 --> 00:37:03,800 Speaker 1: More can, you, tell everyone, well Very quickly who's indiana's 733 00:37:04,079 --> 00:37:05,840 most likely player? TO be traded i feel like for 734 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,320 some teams, it's really easy and for this. 735 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,159 Speaker 2: One it's not I'm Gonna say jaris, walker because like 736 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,360 maybe now he's getting his value a little bit up 737 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,199 because he's starting to hit. The three ball but like 738 00:37:16,159 --> 00:37:18,960 maybe they're so concerned about him not finding this role 739 00:37:19,039 --> 00:37:21,559 that they're trying to sell him on teams, that, are 740 00:37:21,559 --> 00:37:23,199 like look look what he's done over the past month. 741 00:37:23,199 --> 00:37:26,159 And A half so i'm Going To say jeris walker, 742 00:37:28,039 --> 00:37:31,239 for that reason also for the future contractual stuff that 743 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,639 they might just want, TO avoid altogether. 744 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,079 Speaker 1: I think i'd. Be with you and if, It wasn't 745 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,320 him mathern might have to be the default as sort 746 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,400 of an asset. Like CAPITALIZATION there but i also want 747 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,280 because they're not going to pay To Get, off, isaiah 748 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:47,840 jackson right that's, not, something. 749 00:37:47,639 --> 00:37:49,239 Speaker 2: No, no, no no no not. 750 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,199 Speaker 1: At that, deal so more can you tell everybody where 751 00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:53,599 they can find you and all the fantastic work. 752 00:37:53,639 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 2: That, you, do yes sir you can find Me Over. 753 00:37:56,559 --> 00:37:59,239 At yahoo sports you can find me OVER at, the 754 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,119 nba podcast and If you speak danish or At, least 755 00:38:03,159 --> 00:38:05,639 understand danish who can catch Me at BUZZER beata where 756 00:38:05,679 --> 00:38:08,079 i have a PODCAST there and i cover. 757 00:38:08,199 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 1: Games for hbox, until next time and as always we 758 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,559 can shout out, to the, one the only the player 759 00:38:14,559 --> 00:38:17,199 who checks every box mort was talking about when he 760 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:21,079 so Seriously wanted the pacers To Upgrade from tyrese Haliburt 761 00:38:21,079 --> 00:38:23,440 And Mister frank nila keina