1 00:00:20,199 --> 00:00:23,199 Speaker 1: Greetings, friends, and welcome to the podcast of Jewish Ideas, 2 00:00:23,199 --> 00:00:24,440 a Torah in motion production. 3 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:25,719 Speaker 2: I'm jj kimbre. 4 00:00:26,039 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: On today's episode, we will turn to one of the 5 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,119 most original and often underappreciated biblical commentator of the Middle Ages, 6 00:00:32,359 --> 00:00:35,799 namely Rabbi Schmuel ben Meyer, often known as the Rashbam, 7 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,280 a leading figure in twelfth century Northern France and a 8 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,920 grandson of Rashi. Rashbam developed a radically contextual approach to 9 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,880 Biblical interpretation, insisting on shat or plain sense of scripture, 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:50,280 even when it cut against previous or established rabbinical readings. 11 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,399 We will be exploring the methods of the rash brahm, 12 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,520 is understanding of the relationship between Pshat and Dhrush, and 13 00:00:55,719 --> 00:00:59,240 various other aspects of his work, and what they reveal about. 14 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 2: The evolution of biblical commentary in the medieval period. 15 00:01:01,679 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: Johnny us today to discuss the rush Bam is a 16 00:01:03,679 --> 00:01:06,560 foremost authority on the subject. Doctor Martin Luchin, who is 17 00:01:06,599 --> 00:01:10,079 Professor Emeritus of Jewish Studies at York University. Professor Luction 18 00:01:10,159 --> 00:01:12,560 has written extensively on the Rushbam, and his works included 19 00:01:12,599 --> 00:01:15,560 a four volume translation of Rashbam's commentary on the Torah, 20 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,159 as well as a Hebrew addition, both accompanied by extensive footnotes. 21 00:01:19,159 --> 00:01:21,120 It is a pleasure to welcome into the podcast of 22 00:01:21,159 --> 00:01:22,480 Jewish Ideas Today, Professor E. 23 00:01:22,519 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 2: Luction. Thank you for joining us. 24 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 3: Wonderful to be here, like everything that Toron Motion does, 25 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,719 and I'm happy to be part of this podcast series. 26 00:01:33,159 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 2: Fabulous, fabulous. 27 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: So let's begin at the beginning, as it were, tell 28 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,480 us a little bit about this man, Rushmolov and Mayer sketch, 29 00:01:40,799 --> 00:01:43,200 if you please, what we know about his life, his 30 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,239 circumstances from the sources, When and where and how did 31 00:01:46,239 --> 00:01:46,560 he live. 32 00:01:47,239 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 3: We actually do not know a lot of details about 33 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,879 Rushbam's life. We do know that he was Rushi's oldest grandson. 34 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,599 He was the oldest son of Rash's oldest daughter, and 35 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,200 she only had daughters, did not have did not have sons. 36 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:09,879 And we know that he studied with his grandfather enough 37 00:02:10,319 --> 00:02:13,080 that he was able to pass on a lot of 38 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,599 teachings that he received from his father. This is important 39 00:02:17,599 --> 00:02:19,800 for trying to figure out when he was born, because 40 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,479 we know that Rashi died in eleven o five, and 41 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:27,360 so the best guest that people have is from the 42 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:34,080 amount of time that Rashbam studied with his father, it 43 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,400 seems likely that he was born, let's say around ten eighty, 44 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,039 so that he managed to be with his grandfather a 45 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:46,199 student of his grandfather until age twenty five. This would 46 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,919 mean if Rashbam was born in ten eighty, this would 47 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,680 mean that Rashi became a grandfather at age forty, because 48 00:02:52,759 --> 00:02:57,159 Rashi was born in ten forty. But it's not so 49 00:02:57,439 --> 00:03:02,759 unthinkable that somebody would become a grandfather. We don't know 50 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,840 how old Rashi was when he married, and we don't 51 00:03:06,879 --> 00:03:10,479 know how old his daughter was when she married, so 52 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,039 there's a reasonable guess that he was born around around 53 00:03:15,039 --> 00:03:17,159 ten eighty. We know that he lived for a long time. 54 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,000 He's referred to as being elderly, and so the best 55 00:03:21,039 --> 00:03:24,719 guess is that he died around eleven sixty. Professor Afreim 56 00:03:24,719 --> 00:03:30,280 Mooreba has written, and I think it's pretty convincing that 57 00:03:30,439 --> 00:03:34,000 after Rashi died, rush Bamb became the Roshieshiva of the 58 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:40,800 Yeshiva there in tro and after a while, Rushbamb seems 59 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:46,199 to have become overshadowed by his younger brother Rabenu Tom 60 00:03:46,719 --> 00:03:51,599 Rabeno Yakov Tom was nine or ten years probably younger 61 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,800 than Rushbam. And there's a great scholar of Rabenu Tom 62 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,560 who's been writing prolifically about Rabeno Tom here in Jerusalem, 63 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:07,599 UH Professor Rami Reiner and UH Professor Reiner's theory is 64 00:04:07,639 --> 00:04:13,599 that in the beginning Rabino Tom looked as his older brother, 65 00:04:13,759 --> 00:04:17,040 as his rebbie, as his teacher, and then he started 66 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,600 looking at him as his colleague, and then he started 67 00:04:20,639 --> 00:04:24,040 looking at him as being, you know, not in the 68 00:04:24,079 --> 00:04:28,160 same high level that I am at. Both of them 69 00:04:28,199 --> 00:04:33,680 were very active in the tosspot enterprise, and that's probably 70 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,000 I always tell my students that I figure that Rashbam 71 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,759 wrote his his commentaries on the Bible as a kind 72 00:04:40,759 --> 00:04:44,600 of hobby and that and that his major gold in life, 73 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:53,120 like most rabbis in Ashkenas uh in Franco, Germany in 74 00:04:53,199 --> 00:04:56,079 the Middle Ages, was it was to be an expert 75 00:04:56,079 --> 00:04:58,240 in the talmwood. And he probably spent most of his 76 00:04:58,319 --> 00:05:03,920 time on tambolical literature and wrote the wrote his Bible 77 00:05:03,959 --> 00:05:08,439 commentaries on the side. What else do we know about 78 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:13,920 his life? It seems almost certain that he spent some 79 00:05:14,079 --> 00:05:19,240 time talking with Christian scholars of the Bible in northern France. 80 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:24,160 First of all, he mentions conversations that he had with 81 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:28,240 Christians about the Bible, and he doesn't mention them with 82 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:33,560 any ranker or with any belittling of the Christians. He 83 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,839 just says, you know, I pointed this out to them, 84 00:05:35,879 --> 00:05:41,319 and they said, that's fine. And a scholar recently, a 85 00:05:43,319 --> 00:05:50,439 Catholic scholar named Monsei Lera, came here to Jerusalem and 86 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:56,160 studied Hebrew and Biblical commentaries for a dozen years in 87 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:02,240 order to be able to figure out who various scholars 88 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,800 who lived at the same time in France. There were 89 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:10,360 two great French scholars of the Bible who were slightly 90 00:06:10,519 --> 00:06:15,000 younger than Russbaum, Hugh of Saint Victor and Andrew of 91 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,120 Saint Victor. And they're constantly quoting the Jews. And she 92 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:23,279 came to the conclusion that their Hebrew was not good 93 00:06:23,399 --> 00:06:26,079 enough that they would have been able to read medieval 94 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,920 Jewish medieval Hebrew, and so they couldn't They couldn't have 95 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,879 read these commentaries that must have talked with Jews about them. 96 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,639 And she counted up the dozens of times that they 97 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:45,519 quote the Jews, and she found that the interpretations that 98 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,920 they quote in the name of the Jews again with 99 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,959 they quote without rank or and without belittling. They just say, 100 00:06:51,199 --> 00:06:55,000 here's what the Jews say about this, about this passage, 101 00:06:55,360 --> 00:07:01,439 that the plurality of the explanations that they cited in 102 00:07:01,439 --> 00:07:04,160 the name of the Jews are explanations that come from 103 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,319 rush Bomb. And she concluded in her book on the 104 00:07:07,399 --> 00:07:11,120 subject that either they talked to rush Bomb, or at 105 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,040 a minimum, they must have talked to a student of 106 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:19,680 rush Bomb, so he was interested in the Bible enough 107 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,160 to talk about it with non Jews. There's an assumption 108 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,879 that a lot of modern Jews have that if Jews 109 00:07:26,879 --> 00:07:29,519 and Christians were talking about the Bible, it's because they 110 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:35,680 were in forced disputations, or that they were that the 111 00:07:35,759 --> 00:07:41,120 Jews were forced into these discussions, and I'm totally unconvinced 112 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:41,879 by that. 113 00:07:42,079 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 4: I think that there. 114 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,519 Speaker 3: Were friendly discussions of people who are interested in the Bible. 115 00:07:46,839 --> 00:07:50,000 The Bible is the Bible for the Jews, and it's 116 00:07:50,079 --> 00:07:52,399 part of the Bible for the Christians too, And in 117 00:07:52,399 --> 00:07:55,199 the same way that you and I can talk to 118 00:07:55,279 --> 00:07:59,160 a Christian today about the Bible without enmity, I think 119 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,000 it was possible in the twelfth century also fascinating. 120 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: That is actually a very interesting indeed, which leads me 121 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,040 a little bit into my next, let's say, contextual question 122 00:08:08,079 --> 00:08:11,160 before we dive into the commentary itself, which is surrounding 123 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,279 just some of the characteristics of his place and time, 124 00:08:15,319 --> 00:08:18,000 because of course, round about the same centuries that Russian 125 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,240 Rushbam and others were producing a total commentaries in what 126 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,079 can be called a French school or a Nashar school 127 00:08:24,079 --> 00:08:26,959 of devil commentary those of course the Spanish school, though 128 00:08:26,959 --> 00:08:30,279 you know Rambane, but Ezra various others in that school, 129 00:08:30,439 --> 00:08:32,600 And so you know, I wanted to ask what were 130 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,200 the sort of general characteristics of the culture of the 131 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,240 intellectual ambiance in which Rushbam and his grandfather Russian will 132 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,720 get to that moment in which they lived, which are 133 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:47,320 relevant or salient for understanding his his pirush and just 134 00:08:47,519 --> 00:08:49,840 his mode of thought I was going on at that 135 00:08:49,919 --> 00:08:51,200 time and place in which he lived. 136 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: That can shed light on this. 137 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 3: So it's clear that study of the Tuml was extremely 138 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,759 central to rush Bamb's judaism, to his uh to his 139 00:09:00,919 --> 00:09:05,440 intellectual life, but that doesn't show up in his Torah commentary. 140 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,240 Very often that shows up in other in other works 141 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,120 of his the centrality of this and that and that's 142 00:09:11,159 --> 00:09:16,759 what that was the central Jewish intellectual activity in Franco Germany, 143 00:09:17,159 --> 00:09:20,799 as opposed to in this period of time in uh 144 00:09:20,919 --> 00:09:24,600 in Muslim Spain, the tom Wood was not as central 145 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:30,279 to Jewish to Jewish understanding. I once asked professor Professor 146 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,799 Oriel Simone, who's a neighbor of mine here in Jerusalem 147 00:09:33,879 --> 00:09:37,519 and is possibly the world expert on Abraham Eben Ezra, 148 00:09:37,879 --> 00:09:40,240 I once asked them, how much Tomwood do you think 149 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,559 that uh Ibn Ezra knew? And he said, I think 150 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:49,799 that even Ezra had the education of a well educated 151 00:09:50,399 --> 00:09:57,120 jew from from Muslim Spain, which probably consisted of studying 152 00:09:57,919 --> 00:10:05,200 the ref the Rabeno Jitsak Alfassi's kind of condensation of 153 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,960 the Talmud. And he said that in those circles in 154 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,960 Muslim Spain there wasn't that emphasis on the Talmud that 155 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,240 you found in Franco Germany. So that that's part of 156 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,600 the intellectual world in which Rushbam is living. But also 157 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:25,799 some of the teachings of Muslim Spain are reaching France 158 00:10:25,919 --> 00:10:29,200 in the days of rush bomb and I think one 159 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,600 of the differences. One of the many differences between Rashi's 160 00:10:32,639 --> 00:10:37,559 Torah Commentary and Rushbam's The Torah Commentary is that rush 161 00:10:37,639 --> 00:10:43,759 Bamb had read the best available books of Hebrew grammar, 162 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:49,440 the ones written by Yehuda Hayuj and Bayona Idan Janach 163 00:10:49,519 --> 00:10:52,240 that had actually been written in Judaeo Arabic. They had 164 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,320 been written before Rashi was formed. But Rashi didn't read 165 00:10:55,399 --> 00:10:59,440 Judeo Arabic, and he did Rushibam. Rusham didn't read Judeo Arabic, 166 00:10:59,639 --> 00:11:02,840 but those books had been translated into Hebrew by the 167 00:11:02,879 --> 00:11:06,440 time rush Bomb came along. They weren't translated in time 168 00:11:06,799 --> 00:11:10,480 for Rashi to make use of them, and so rush 169 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:15,120 Bomb had a I would say, a better grounding in 170 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:22,480 grammar than Rashi did, because the great works of Hebrew 171 00:11:22,519 --> 00:11:27,600 grammar that came up with the discovery in quotation marks 172 00:11:27,919 --> 00:11:31,159 that we all. One of the first things that any 173 00:11:31,159 --> 00:11:35,279 of us learned when we learned Hebrew is that every route, 174 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,080 pretty well every root in the Hebrew language has three letters. 175 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,720 That wasn't something that Rashi was taught. It's not to 176 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:48,159 be blamed for not knowing this, but this theory was developed. 177 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,360 It's not a fact when you look at the word 178 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,399 va yate above you and tet and they tell I 179 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,200 remember when my third grade teacher told me that the 180 00:11:57,279 --> 00:12:00,559 root of vayet is nun tet hey. I looked at 181 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:02,759 the teacher, what are you talking about. There's no nun here, 182 00:12:02,799 --> 00:12:07,519 There's no hey here. But that became the that became 183 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:11,440 the dominant theory of Hebrew grammar. There's that has been 184 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:16,879 taught since the days of Yona Binjana until until today. 185 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,679 And Rashi didn't know that theory of Hebrew grammar. And 186 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:25,399 so rush Bamb is part of the milieu of the 187 00:12:25,519 --> 00:12:30,240 Tomwood centered Jews of Franco Germany, but he has been 188 00:12:30,279 --> 00:12:34,480 exposed to some of the teachings or many of the 189 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,919 teachings of the Jews of Muslim Spain. 190 00:12:38,399 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: Interesting, that is a very interesting difference between the two, 191 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,240 of course, which is, you know, one it seems to 192 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,480 conflate Russian and Rushbat. You know, obviously grandfather and grandson 193 00:12:48,639 --> 00:12:50,519 sort of similar time periods. That what you're saying is 194 00:12:50,519 --> 00:12:53,440 that in those in that generational difference actually a very 195 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:58,240 important difference of the information that was flowing in from 196 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,120 from outside, including these advances as a Hebrew grammar and understanding. 197 00:13:02,159 --> 00:13:04,679 That's that's very interesting. 198 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:06,759 Speaker 2: Okay, fine, fair enough. So let's let's dive into a 199 00:13:06,759 --> 00:13:09,559 little bit the. 200 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: That that particular relationship, right, but one of the most 201 00:13:11,399 --> 00:13:15,720 famous relationships, intellectual relationships, familiar relationships in the history of 202 00:13:15,799 --> 00:13:17,679 Jewish I thought, which is of course Jan Rushi and 203 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,159 his grandson Rashbam. And so let me ask you, I mean, 204 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,879 what do we know of that relationship? Firstly, on both 205 00:13:23,039 --> 00:13:25,600 on a personal level, Let's say, what we know of 206 00:13:25,639 --> 00:13:28,919 their interactions? Did they learn together? Were they to what 207 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,399 extent we know about that? And secondly, I suppose tracing 208 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,080 influence a little bit. I mean, obviously Rushuram sees himself 209 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,840 at some sort of continuation of Rashi perhaps or some 210 00:13:37,879 --> 00:13:41,799 sort of an heir to his title, but also doing 211 00:13:41,799 --> 00:13:44,480 something quite different. I mean, how do we how do 212 00:13:44,519 --> 00:13:46,399 we throw the two of them into dialogue with each 213 00:13:46,399 --> 00:13:48,600 other and what do we see as their relationship? 214 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:55,759 Speaker 3: For sure, Rushbam I was a tolmidbothake, a dedicated a 215 00:13:55,799 --> 00:14:01,159 student of his of his grandfather, Rafshi, and he often 216 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,159 quotes things in the name of Rashi, and he often 217 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:10,679 speaks with great respect about Rashi. His his approach to 218 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:15,720 the to the interpretation of Talmudic texts is very similar 219 00:14:15,759 --> 00:14:18,200 to Rashi. I have some things to say if you're 220 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:23,240 interested about about the differences. And we have some of 221 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:28,039 Rashbaum's commentaries on the Tomlud, and I think that he 222 00:14:28,279 --> 00:14:30,080 tried to go in a little bit of a different 223 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,759 direction from Rashi, but he's definitely following in Rashi's footsteps. 224 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,399 Rush Bomb reports to us in his commentary on the 225 00:14:38,399 --> 00:14:43,519 Torado that he used to discuss shot with his with 226 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:49,360 his grandfather, and he says nakiv I would argue with 227 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:54,200 him to his face. And Rashi admitted to me that 228 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,039 if he had time, he would change. He would write 229 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:07,279 new commentaries based on Rushbamb, says hashadrachimbhol Yom, the newly 230 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,320 thought of shot interpretations of the Bible that you come 231 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,399 up with day by day. And there is some evidence 232 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:20,080 that Rashi, towards the end of his life was being 233 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:26,480 influenced by some of the approaches to the Bible of Rushbamb. 234 00:15:26,679 --> 00:15:32,679 Certainly Rushbam was influenced by Rashi, but there is evidence 235 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:38,559 there another great rabbi who is younger than Rushbam named 236 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:43,200 rabittak Or Zarua reports that there were various verses that 237 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,480 Rashi used to call suke di Shmuel, the verses of Schmuel, 238 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,879 the verses that my grandson came up with an explanation 239 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,720 of these verses, and that was very proud of the 240 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:59,159 fact that he was learning something about the Bible from 241 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:03,240 his from his grandson. So it was an interesting relationship 242 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,519 with a lot of books that were written in the 243 00:16:05,519 --> 00:16:08,759 Middle Ages got lost. A lot of books that were 244 00:16:08,759 --> 00:16:13,399 written by rush Bumb got lost. The Torah Commentary written 245 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,480 by rush Bamb almost got lost, and we can get 246 00:16:16,519 --> 00:16:19,240 back to that in a second. But towards the end 247 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,000 of Rashi's life, we know that there was a work 248 00:16:23,159 --> 00:16:27,679 that he wrote. He was too weak to write it himself. 249 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,679 And there's a work that's called hell Haught yay Nesse 250 00:16:33,399 --> 00:16:38,559 that Rashi dictated to rush bomb and we don't have 251 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:43,399 that work, but quotations from it appear in other reshow 252 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,240 names and other rabbis from this period, So you know 253 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,039 he was He was close enough to his grandfather that 254 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,919 at the end of his grandfather's life was he was 255 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,440 like his amanuensis. He was helping him write the things 256 00:16:55,519 --> 00:17:01,360 that that Rashi wasn't able to write. Himself anything. 257 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,039 Speaker 1: Of course, there is this famous line of that. Russibamb 258 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:09,079 reports Rashi saying that, you know, Russi would have gone 259 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,440 over and recomposed some of his tory piroshin in light 260 00:17:13,559 --> 00:17:16,519 of things he learned, in light of the new shut him, 261 00:17:16,559 --> 00:17:20,079 the new explanations that arise every day. 262 00:17:20,279 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 3: You know, As a grandfather myself, I often wonder because 263 00:17:24,519 --> 00:17:28,720 occasionally a grandchild of mine says something, and I say, oh, 264 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:33,880 that is brilliant, and sometimes it was brilliant, and sometimes 265 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,440 I'm just being a good grandfather. And so you know, 266 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:44,200 you never to know for sure when Rushbam says that 267 00:17:44,279 --> 00:17:52,039 Rashi said, oh, you've taught me important new things, whether Rashi, 268 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,880 I'd like to think that Rashi really meant it, and 269 00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:00,000 that he wasn't just encouraging his young his young grandchild. 270 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,759 Speaker 1: Right, Okay, it's very interesting what you say just now, 271 00:18:03,799 --> 00:18:07,480 that in your mind the influence wasn't only in one direction. 272 00:18:07,519 --> 00:18:10,279 In other words, that one could perhaps correct the sun 273 00:18:10,599 --> 00:18:14,000 elements of Russi's writings, the Russi's way of thinking that 274 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:18,839 had been shaped by interactions with his own, presumably precocious grandson. 275 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 3: Yes, I really think that that that is the case. 276 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:30,039 I'm not saying that Rashi, you know, totally revolutionized his approach, 277 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,720 totally changed his approach. But you can find and things 278 00:18:33,759 --> 00:18:38,079 that he's writing, presumably towards the end of his life, 279 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,039 some influence of Russi bomb. And we also know that 280 00:18:42,279 --> 00:18:47,880 Rashi was constantly revising his own works, including his tra commentary. 281 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:55,000 And there are places where, like in the verse from shiratayam, 282 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:59,160 you mean hajasm and aribako you mean hahashm tirat. Oh, yeah, 283 00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:03,480 when there are two references to God's right arm there. 284 00:19:03,759 --> 00:19:08,640 First of all, Rashi begins by explaining why there would 285 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:15,400 be two references to God's right arm, and then he says, 286 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,359 but the shot is and then he says something very 287 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:23,119 similar to what Rushbam says. And the plastibility that he 288 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,039 was talking about this verse with his grandson and that 289 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,480 he revised his commentary to that verse in order to 290 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:35,000 explain it the way his grandson explained it. I think 291 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,200 that's a real possibility. 292 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 2: Okay, fine, fair enough. 293 00:19:38,799 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: And having danced around the edges of Rushbam's commentary, now 294 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,720 for a little bit, let's dive into it itself. 295 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 2: One of the most salient aspects of Rushbam's commentary. 296 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:54,799 Speaker 1: Elatura is is its dedication to what is generally called shot, 297 00:19:55,079 --> 00:19:57,480 and and you know, and then rush Bamb is usually 298 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,759 tagged as you know he is the grandfather of Mikra. 299 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:03,720 And so I want to ask you because this is 300 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,480 actually not such a simple thing to describe exactly. People 301 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,119 think it's generally translated to the plain or ordinary meaning 302 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,880 of the words. But let me ask you, I mean, 303 00:20:13,039 --> 00:20:16,839 what did Rushbamb think shat was? What did he think 304 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,279 he was doing in his methodology? And then let me 305 00:20:20,319 --> 00:20:22,279 ask I mean, as sort of a follow up, was 306 00:20:22,319 --> 00:20:26,000 the shot of Rushbamb the way he thought was what 307 00:20:26,079 --> 00:20:28,599 he thought he was doing the same as what others 308 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,599 were I don't know Rashibanezra and Bane the others in 309 00:20:31,599 --> 00:20:32,160 his generation. 310 00:20:32,559 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 2: Was his pursuit of shot. 311 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: The same as what others thought they were doing when 312 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:37,359 they said they were doing the same thing. 313 00:20:37,559 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 3: Okay, great question. There isn't a simple definition of shot 314 00:20:43,279 --> 00:20:47,440 that everyone would would agree to. I remember, you know, 315 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,279 I had the great privilege many years ago of studying 316 00:20:50,319 --> 00:20:54,480 with Nahamad Labovich, and she once said, there's a choke 317 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,680 that the only difference between shot, and Rash is that 318 00:20:57,839 --> 00:21:00,759 shot is what I say in Drash is what everybody 319 00:21:00,839 --> 00:21:05,880 else says. Yes, and for a lot of people that 320 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:07,920 that's the way it is. There's there's a book written 321 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,880 by David by Salivni called Shot in Russia. He argues 322 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,440 in this book that really the word shot, as the 323 00:21:15,559 --> 00:21:19,640 years went on, started to mean my explanation that I 324 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:24,039 think is true without any real real definition. And Yeshiba 325 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,759 boys know that, you know, the y boy will often 326 00:21:27,799 --> 00:21:30,880 say this is the shots in the commar. It doesn't. 327 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,240 It doesn't mean anything other than the true interpretation. But 328 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,440 I think that there are some characteristics of shot the 329 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,759 way Russibumb understood Shot, in the way most Medievals understood Shot, 330 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,680 that that we can define define. One of them is 331 00:21:47,759 --> 00:21:52,680 conforming to the rules of grammar. One of them is 332 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:58,480 conforming to the context, looking to interpret the text in 333 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:06,279 its context. One of them is being freed from seeing 334 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:13,839 previous methods of interpretation as being binding. So Rashi himself 335 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:18,160 said Anilo Badi el Albshutosh Mikra. But anybody who reads 336 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,799 Rashi knows that Rashi is I don't know, maybe around 337 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,079 ninety percent of the time or even more than that, 338 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,720 he's offering things that he found in meat rush Rabba 339 00:22:28,839 --> 00:22:33,039 and taught Kumar and various various meat rashim he has 340 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,920 not freed himself from. And he's probably proud of the 341 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,200 fact that he hasn't freed himself from the traditions of 342 00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:47,799 Jewish interpretation. He's using those traditions of interpretation in his commentary, 343 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:53,519 and he's probably using some kind of criteria for deciding 344 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,039 which meat rashim he will use and which meat rashim 345 00:22:58,759 --> 00:23:03,240 he won't use. But rush Bumb hardly provides a meat 346 00:23:03,319 --> 00:23:07,759 rush eff in his commentary. It so there's there's the 347 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:13,200 experience of me looking at the text using the the 348 00:23:13,319 --> 00:23:19,799 rules of grammar and syntax and reading the text in 349 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:26,519 its context. And what makes rush Bumb so interesting and 350 00:23:26,599 --> 00:23:30,799 also so challenging is that he seems to also say, 351 00:23:31,279 --> 00:23:34,680 let the chips fall as they may. Now, I'm just 352 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,480 going to give this interpretation. And if you tell me 353 00:23:38,039 --> 00:23:41,279 that the interpretation that I gave here goes against what 354 00:23:41,319 --> 00:23:44,519 it says in the talm Wood, then I'll say to you, Okay, 355 00:23:44,599 --> 00:23:48,519 I know that, but it's the shot. Does that mean 356 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,960 that he was rebelling against the Talmud God forbid. Now, 357 00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:57,079 Rushbamb believed in a text that has more than one 358 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,759 meaning to it, and he thinks that the text should 359 00:24:01,799 --> 00:24:06,960 be read using the mid rashik method, and he thinks 360 00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:10,519 that it should also be read using the shot method. 361 00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:15,200 And he didn't have any trouble with the suggestion that 362 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,640 maybe they arrived at different conclusions one from the other, 363 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,519 not just maybe often they did. And sometimes he'll write, 364 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,759 here's what the shot is, but the rabbi said the following, 365 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,880 and he could live with that. He could live with 366 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,559 that tension. You asked, you know, is he's so different 367 00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:36,519 from Rashi. Yes, he's very different from Russia, because Rashi 368 00:24:36,559 --> 00:24:38,920 doesn't do that. Rashi is still very wedded to the 369 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,119 midrash Is he so different from Ivanzra? It's not all 370 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:47,119 that different from Ivanzra, except that even Ezra is not 371 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,960 eager to live with that tension between the midrashik reading 372 00:24:51,599 --> 00:24:55,720 and the and the shot. There are places where Rashi 373 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,640 where Rashbam says, give you an example, the rules of 374 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,960 the evity breed the Jewish Slave. That says that a 375 00:25:04,039 --> 00:25:07,039 Jewish slave can be a slave only for six years 376 00:25:07,079 --> 00:25:10,799 and then and then he goes free. Unless he wants 377 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,799 to stay. There's a ceremony that he can go through, 378 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,640 and then he stays a slave. And then it says 379 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,400 if he goes through this ceremony, the text the Taurus 380 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:29,119 says Olam, he will worship, not worship, he will work 381 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:35,960 for his uh for his master Olam. And the hawaha 382 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:41,079 is that that the slave goes free at the jovela 383 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,799 the jubilee year. But Rushbam says, no, that's you know 384 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:50,960 that the shots of the passages that he remains a 385 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,960 slave all of his life. And he knows very well 386 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,599 that that's not what the halaka is. But he's interested 387 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,000 in explaining the shot, even if the shot does not 388 00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:05,200 come to the same conclusion as as the halaha. Even 389 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,240 Eesra couldn't live with that. Even Ezra writes in the 390 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:14,599 introduction to his commentary that when when he finds a 391 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:19,480 conflict between the traditional way of reading the text and 392 00:26:19,759 --> 00:26:23,880 the shot way of reading with the text, he'll see 393 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,000 if he can make a kind of compromise between them, 394 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,359 and if not, you have to choose. You can't have 395 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:34,720 them both. And even Eesra had at one point in 396 00:26:34,759 --> 00:26:42,640 his uh in his Obra writes that any author Hajamia 397 00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:48,319 oh Navi, whether it's a sage or a prophet, Tom 398 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:54,000 e Radlied Barrow, there's one interpretation of what of what 399 00:26:54,039 --> 00:26:58,480 he says, there's one correct interpretation. Rushbam didn't feel that way. 400 00:26:58,759 --> 00:27:02,480 Rushbaum felt that a text had many levels of meaning, 401 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,720 or at least two levels of meaning, the meaning that 402 00:27:06,759 --> 00:27:10,599 has arrived at using the methodology of meat Rush and 403 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,000 the meaning that has arrived at by using the methodology 404 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:15,079 of Shot. 405 00:27:15,599 --> 00:27:21,039 Speaker 5: And this is I think one of the reasons why 406 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:27,720 Rushbamb's commentary for most of Jewish history was not particularly popular. 407 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:33,319 Speaker 3: Because a lot of Jews had trouble relating to the 408 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,839 idea of an interpretation. A lot of religious Jews had 409 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,319 trouble relating to an interpretation that wasn't worried about what 410 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:47,519 the Halaja said the interpretation of the text was. Rushboton 411 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,759 was a very pious Talmudist. He wasn't trying to organize 412 00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:57,799 any rebellion against the against Talmudic law. But as I said, before, 413 00:27:57,839 --> 00:28:01,880 this commentary almost got lost. There were we have dozens, 414 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,839 if not hundreds, of manuscripts of Rashi's commentary on the 415 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,680 Torah that were produced before print that came along in 416 00:28:10,839 --> 00:28:15,720 the fifteenth century, and perhaps the first and not the 417 00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:18,920 first that it was. The second Jewish book ever printed 418 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,640 was Rashi's Commentary on the Torah in the fourteen seventies, 419 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:30,319 already Incannabula, a book published already in the fifteenth century. 420 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:36,200 Rushbump's Commentary on the Torah wasn't published until the eighteenth century. 421 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,319 And the only reason it was published in the eighteenth 422 00:28:38,359 --> 00:28:41,440 century is because at the very end of the seventeenth century, 423 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:48,640 from the Jewish book collector, a rabbi found one manuscript 424 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:54,480 of rush Bumb's commentary on the Torah, and all of 425 00:28:54,519 --> 00:28:58,799 our versions of rush Bum's Commentary on the Torah are 426 00:28:58,839 --> 00:29:04,359 based on one count them, one manuscript which got lost 427 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,440 during the show. Up For many years, I was hoping 428 00:29:07,559 --> 00:29:11,359 that the manuscript was plundered by somebody and that it 429 00:29:11,359 --> 00:29:14,400 would be put up for sale. But now that it's 430 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,400 so many years after the after the show, it seems 431 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,599 it seems that the manuscript was was destroyed. And so 432 00:29:24,039 --> 00:29:28,519 why were there not so many, uh, not so many 433 00:29:28,759 --> 00:29:32,960 manuscripts of rush Bomb's commentary on the Torah Because people 434 00:29:33,039 --> 00:29:38,079 weren't all that interested in learning it. Because religious Jews 435 00:29:38,079 --> 00:29:43,559 who were studying the Torah, wanted to have an explanation 436 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,599 of the Torah that conformed to the tom Wooduk understanding 437 00:29:47,839 --> 00:29:51,759 of it. And I think Rashi had had the genius 438 00:29:51,799 --> 00:29:56,160 to realize this. While he professed an interest in Shot, 439 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,160 as I said before, the majority of what he did 440 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,319 was wasn't shot. And it's in the last couple of 441 00:30:03,359 --> 00:30:09,440 centuries that people have started to, you know, because modern 442 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:16,319 people are different than medieval people and uh and many 443 00:30:16,599 --> 00:30:21,200 modern Jews, including many observant modern Jews. I'm an observant 444 00:30:21,599 --> 00:30:25,200 modern Jew, and I find a lot of interest in 445 00:30:25,359 --> 00:30:28,960 rush Bumb's understanding of the of the Bible. 446 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,119 Speaker 1: And I am okay, there's a lot that I want 447 00:30:32,119 --> 00:30:35,039 to address, and one of them is the very interesting, 448 00:30:35,559 --> 00:30:40,079 let's say, ramifications of rush BAM's ideas regarding Latin Rush because, 449 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,240 as you said, he has this interesting relationship with mid 450 00:30:43,559 --> 00:30:46,519 Haan Hazal's readings, including the i Godic readings and those 451 00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:48,880 readings of the narratives in the in the Tanak, but 452 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,680 also the halachic readings that Rabbi's legal midrash on on 453 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,400 the text. And as you say, rush Bamb doesn't reject 454 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,039 these as authoritative He doesn't say, you know, therefore we 455 00:31:01,039 --> 00:31:03,359 don't have to you know, we're not bound by these, 456 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,480 but he does insist there's not the shot, there's not 457 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,279 actually the reading, or I don't know the correct reading, 458 00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:13,599 there's not the genuinely how would you say what rush 459 00:31:13,599 --> 00:31:17,359 Brahm's attitude is to mid Russia, because at the end 460 00:31:17,359 --> 00:31:20,000 of the day, he is in a way, I don't know, 461 00:31:20,079 --> 00:31:23,799 demoting them or or like categorizing them as one particular 462 00:31:23,799 --> 00:31:28,440 thing while insisting that the plain text reading says something else. 463 00:31:28,759 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 2: And I'm cold you sort of make make sense. 464 00:31:32,519 --> 00:31:36,279 Speaker 3: Of all this, m Well, I think that that the 465 00:31:36,839 --> 00:31:39,759 key to this is that rush bamb believed that there 466 00:31:39,759 --> 00:31:42,640 could be two ways of interpreting the same text and 467 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,400 they could both be valid. And you know, if you're 468 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:54,000 studying poetry, uh, you you discover things like this. You know, 469 00:31:55,119 --> 00:31:59,680 there isn't just one correct interpretation of a poem. And 470 00:32:00,279 --> 00:32:04,960 Refam understands that there's a tool kit that the Midrash 471 00:32:05,119 --> 00:32:11,599 uses for interpreting a text, and it involves things like Kalbajomer, 472 00:32:12,839 --> 00:32:17,519 the thirteen medats that are used by Rabil. He writes this, 473 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:24,440 he said, this is the halachically binding way of reading 474 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,079 the Torah. But there's another way of reading the Torah, 475 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:34,680 and that's the contextual way of reading the Torah. And uh, 476 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,519 maybe I'll just give one more example. Rasfan made many 477 00:32:39,559 --> 00:32:45,240 people angry when he wrote in uh in his commentary 478 00:32:45,319 --> 00:32:49,759 on the first chapter of the Torah, that by he era, 479 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:55,559 by he bolk here does not mean that that the 480 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,400 Jewish day begins at night and continues. It goes from 481 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,119 sunset the sunset. What it means is that God created 482 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,880 on the first day and then, like the rest of us, wahabdil, 483 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,759 just like the rest of us, when he finished working, 484 00:33:11,799 --> 00:33:14,400 there was evening and that was morning, and that was 485 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,160 the end of the first day. When morning and that's 486 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,039 we're talking today on a Sunday where I'm living here 487 00:33:23,039 --> 00:33:26,640 in Israel. Right now, the sun has already set and 488 00:33:27,039 --> 00:33:30,880 alofialy it's Monday, but everybody thinks of it as being Sunday. 489 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,079 It's being Sunday still, And when will people think that 490 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,920 Monday really begins. They'll think that it may that it 491 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,599 begins when the sun comes up tomorrow morning. That'll be 492 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:44,759 the beginning of the new day. And that's what rush 493 00:33:44,839 --> 00:33:47,799 Bomb says. That's what's going on in Genesis chapter one. 494 00:33:48,079 --> 00:33:53,160 Even Astra got apoplectic about this interpretation and said that 495 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,920 he thought that maybe a commentary that that wrote something 496 00:33:57,039 --> 00:34:01,039 like this deserved to be burnt or at least to 497 00:34:01,119 --> 00:34:05,880 be torn to pieces, because because it seemed to undermine 498 00:34:06,359 --> 00:34:10,679 the tradition. And Russibamb managed to live with this, with 499 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,960 this tension between what the text says on the shot 500 00:34:15,119 --> 00:34:18,679 level and what it is that we as religious Jews 501 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,000 are required to do. 502 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 2: Right, you mentioned that very interesting. 503 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,760 Speaker 1: I don't know what controversies the right word, but the 504 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,239 sorry the Rushbaum's opinion that indeed the Jewish day begins 505 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,599 the vayer very voca means that the Jewish day really 506 00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,679 begins in the morning, as we sort of instinctively understand 507 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:39,239 it and wake up in the morning and believe it 508 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,440 to be the case. And that that vaya very very 509 00:34:42,519 --> 00:34:44,960 voca as it is invoked in Genesis chapter one, just 510 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,519 means that the day passed and the thing that was 511 00:34:47,519 --> 00:34:49,719 crazy on that day happened like it was sort of 512 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,239 you know, it was the day ended. Or firstly, before 513 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,119 we get onto to the other thing, this occasions quite 514 00:34:56,119 --> 00:34:58,880 a response from Ibn Ezra if I'm understaken that he 515 00:34:59,199 --> 00:35:04,880 had to defend his position. And can you briefly enlighten 516 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,639 us as to that particular very interesting episode in in 517 00:35:08,639 --> 00:35:09,639 in the life of these two men. 518 00:35:10,159 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 3: Yes, so, so Ibanezra wrote a whole book to try 519 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:21,679 to disprove this uh the theory. And again because Ibanezra 520 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:27,119 has this feeling that a text has one interpretation to 521 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:32,320 it and that has to be the correct interpretation. Rashban 522 00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:36,000 was not suggesting that the Halahi definition of a day 523 00:35:36,039 --> 00:35:39,880 should change. In fact, there are other passages where Rushban 524 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,920 makes it very clear that he thinks that the halahik 525 00:35:43,039 --> 00:35:49,800 definition of a day is from from the time that 526 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:54,840 the stars come out today until the stars come out tomorrow. 527 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,599 That's a Hallafi day. But he just argues that the 528 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,920 correct reading of the first chapter of Gray Sheet is 529 00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:08,719 that during those first six days of creation, those days 530 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:13,400 of creation finished in the morning. And eban Ezra says, 531 00:36:13,639 --> 00:36:15,719 what kind of weird thing would that be for the 532 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,920 Torah to begin? If the Torah it's interested in us 533 00:36:19,039 --> 00:36:23,760 keeping days that begin in the evening and in the evening, 534 00:36:24,079 --> 00:36:27,800 why would it say something say something like that. It 535 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,239 seems to be undermining the whole system. And so iban 536 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,079 Azra wrote this old pamphlet. Some people call it a book, 537 00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:37,679 but it's really just a pamphlet called the Garrett Ashabad, 538 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,519 which he wrote when he was towards the end of 539 00:36:41,519 --> 00:36:44,320 his life, when he was living in England, was to 540 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:50,519 try to disprove this, this approach, and that there's a 541 00:36:50,599 --> 00:36:54,559 certain there's a certain irony about this because as I 542 00:36:54,599 --> 00:37:00,639 said before, Rashbaumb was the accomplished Talmudist and Ebn Ezra's 543 00:37:00,639 --> 00:37:04,360 not of Talmudist. That was not his thing. He did 544 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:09,599 not write works of halacha, and Rushibamb did write works 545 00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:14,280 of halaka. Rush Bamb and his Tomlind commentaries gives us 546 00:37:14,519 --> 00:37:21,199 halachak summaries of the Talmudic text very often. He's very 547 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:25,400 interested in people knowing what's the halaja is much more 548 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,760 than Rashi and Rashi's Talmwud commentaries. Rush Bamb is much 549 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,719 more interested in presenting the Talmudic text to students in 550 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,599 such a way that they will know what the halaja is, 551 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,199 and so that really matters to him. And yet another 552 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:45,800 irony in the Torah Commentary written by Moses Mendelssohn at 553 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:51,199 the end of the eighteenth century, in the introduction to 554 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:57,840 Medilson wrote an introduction to Parashashpatim to the laws that 555 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,840 appear in chapter twelve, twenty one, twenty two, and twenty 556 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:07,440 three of Exodus of Schmaltz. And he says, there, you know, 557 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,079 and of course paraphrasing you, but he says, you know, 558 00:38:13,119 --> 00:38:20,400 I try to follow Rushbamb all the time, but I 559 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:26,039 can't follow Rushbamb on Parshakh Mishpatim because rush Bamb often 560 00:38:26,639 --> 00:38:30,760 interprets laws here in Parshakh Mishpatim in a way that 561 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,400 doesn't conform with the halaka. And how can you do 562 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,400 something like this? So the great father of the Jewish 563 00:38:39,559 --> 00:38:44,440 Enlightenment in the eighteenth century, Moses Mendelssohn, feels as if 564 00:38:44,639 --> 00:38:48,639 Rushbamb is not feel a pardon that is not from enough. 565 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:53,719 He's you know, it's not from enough for me, for Mendelssohn. 566 00:38:54,199 --> 00:38:58,559 And the irony of this, of course, is that Rushbam's 567 00:38:58,599 --> 00:39:02,199 life was the tom in his life was the Halaja, 568 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:08,000 and was not trying to change anything. But Meddelsohn just 569 00:39:08,039 --> 00:39:11,119 thought that this was that the rush Bomb had gone 570 00:39:11,119 --> 00:39:17,039 too far in his commitment towards chat And it's possible 571 00:39:17,119 --> 00:39:21,719 that that's why there weren't so many manuscripts of Rushbaumb's commentary, 572 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:26,199 because other Jews over the years felt that he had 573 00:39:26,199 --> 00:39:32,199 gone gone too far. Before the twentieth century, there was 574 00:39:32,639 --> 00:39:38,320 just one super commentary written on rush Bamb's commentary, and 575 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,679 the author of this super commentary writes in his introduction, 576 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,840 I've heard people saying, what do I need this commentary for? 577 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,000 What good does this commentary do for us? And I 578 00:39:49,039 --> 00:39:52,880 think that was what a lot of traditional Jews felt 579 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,599 over the ages. But then again, there were people who 580 00:39:58,039 --> 00:40:02,360 followed in his in his footsteps. If you look at 581 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:07,960 someone like schmil W Luzzato in Italy in the nineteenth century. 582 00:40:08,519 --> 00:40:16,440 Shadal Luzzatto was writing just after Rushbaum's commentary was published 583 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,920 for the for the first time, and he was he 584 00:40:21,039 --> 00:40:23,599 was very taken by it, and he's quoting it all 585 00:40:23,599 --> 00:40:27,639 the time, and he liked that approach. And Shadala was 586 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,159 a religious Jude, teaching all of his life in the 587 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:37,000 seminary in Padua, felt that he had teaching Tanach there, 588 00:40:37,079 --> 00:40:41,199 felt that he had this kind of role model of 589 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:46,079 somebody who could stay loyal to the tradition but was 590 00:40:46,119 --> 00:40:52,800 not willing to compromise his logical analysis of the text, 591 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:59,960 and that's what Shadal. That's what Shadal does in his commentary. 592 00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:11,639 In many modern commentaries follow in Rushbam's footsteps. Just to 593 00:41:11,679 --> 00:41:16,239 give one example, Rushbam reads the story of Jacob and 594 00:41:16,519 --> 00:41:21,239 Esau very differently from the way that Rashi and the 595 00:41:21,519 --> 00:41:25,480 Jewish tradition at general reads the story of Jacob and Isa. 596 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,480 Rushbam says that when Jacob was coming back from Haran 597 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,440 to Erasistrael, he was afraid of his brother Esa for 598 00:41:35,559 --> 00:41:40,119 no reason. And God had promised him that everything would 599 00:41:40,159 --> 00:41:44,920 be fine when he came back, and he didn't believe 600 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:50,320 what God said to him, and in fact, he was 601 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:55,559 trying to run away. At the last moment, after he 602 00:41:55,679 --> 00:41:59,320 brought his family across the river, he decided to run 603 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,559 away and run in the opposite direction. And that's when 604 00:42:02,599 --> 00:42:06,159 God sent that man Angel to wrestle with him so 605 00:42:06,199 --> 00:42:09,000 that he wouldn't be able to run away. And then 606 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,320 when he meets Esau and Isa runs to him and 607 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,519 kisses him and hugs him. That's because that's what I 608 00:42:13,639 --> 00:42:17,239 saw was planning on doing all along. One of the 609 00:42:17,519 --> 00:42:23,000 great Bible scholars who writes these days Professor Yonatan Grossmann 610 00:42:23,119 --> 00:42:28,519 of Barilan University wrote a book called Yakhov recently, and 611 00:42:28,559 --> 00:42:31,559 I went to the book launch of that book, and 612 00:42:31,639 --> 00:42:35,039 in the book launch he talked about the story of 613 00:42:35,159 --> 00:42:41,480 Yakov Aesov and he explained all the reasons why Rushbam's 614 00:42:41,519 --> 00:42:46,199 reading of the story of Yakov Vnesov was the correct 615 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,440 reading of the text, a number of arguments beyond the 616 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:54,039 ones that Rushbamb made. Professor Grossman was convinced that it 617 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,519 was the was the correct reading. 618 00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:02,960 Speaker 1: So which is which is introjected extraordinarily subversive reading? And 619 00:43:03,159 --> 00:43:07,519 again I sort of because of course, the whole weight 620 00:43:07,559 --> 00:43:10,840 of Abinning tradition to mean Russian, you know, the gamar 621 00:43:11,079 --> 00:43:15,039 that all assumed that Asaf was irredeemably wicked, that Yakov 622 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,920 was always heroic, and that the kiss was either a 623 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,800 very suspect kiss or wasn't a kiss at all, and 624 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,840 that uh, you know, and right here comes Rushbam, just 625 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,960 with the reading of the plain text, entirely subverts and 626 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,840 so that was the basis of my initial question. On 627 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,079 the one hand, he is loyal to rabbinic practice, and 628 00:43:35,079 --> 00:43:37,559 and the way, you know, I suppose the conclusions of 629 00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:39,920 the Brining tradition. But in terms of reading the verses, 630 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:41,840 the way he does it and the conclusions he reaches, 631 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:43,599 he's he's a real outlier. 632 00:43:43,599 --> 00:43:46,119 Speaker 2: He's completely rather subversive. 633 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,360 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, that's an attraction to me and to many 634 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,679 people who are attracted to this commentary that it's you know, 635 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,239 I think to myself, just how creative this person was. 636 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,599 You know, he have learned from the time that he 637 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,440 was in kindergarten or whatever the equivalent of kindergarten was 638 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:11,800 in order to France, and at the end of the 639 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,800 eleventh century, he must have been taught that bay he 640 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,159 Era Vahi Bocher teaches us that the Jewish day begins 641 00:44:18,159 --> 00:44:20,920 at night. And then he just decided he's going to 642 00:44:21,039 --> 00:44:25,000 look at the text independently, independently of all the things 643 00:44:25,039 --> 00:44:27,639 that he had been that he had been taught, and 644 00:44:27,679 --> 00:44:30,639 that you know, it's a great mind of somebody who's 645 00:44:30,679 --> 00:44:34,519 able to do this. I would say that not every 646 00:44:34,679 --> 00:44:41,480 interpretation that Rushbumb wrote is totally convincing to me, but 647 00:44:41,559 --> 00:44:45,480 I think that he did a really good job of 648 00:44:45,559 --> 00:44:51,719 looking at the Bible through the lens of context, grammar, syntax, 649 00:44:52,760 --> 00:45:00,920 and what the text is saying, and not necessarily what 650 00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,039 thea is interesting? 651 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:04,159 Speaker 2: Interesting? 652 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,039 Speaker 1: Okay, there were several points in what you said that 653 00:45:08,039 --> 00:45:09,800 I want to approach, and one of them is there 654 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,320 is an aspect, an aspect of the Rushbam's terror commentary 655 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,039 which you have also noted, which is what one might 656 00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:21,920 call noticing the literary aspects, the literary points of the 657 00:45:22,599 --> 00:45:24,679 of the tourist narratives and laws, et cetera. And could 658 00:45:24,679 --> 00:45:26,719 you elaborate a little bit on that. This is actually 659 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,159 something which, as you say, is important, especially because it 660 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,880 foreshadows more modern readings of the Tanakh. And you know, 661 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,280 there's something that contemporary scholars pay a great deal of 662 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,400 attention to, and Rushbam seems to have been something of 663 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,840 a trailblazer and this in noticing this, So could you 664 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:45,159 elaborate what was within Rushbam's commentary that is different or 665 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,559 is what does he notice, let's say, what does he 666 00:45:48,199 --> 00:45:50,440 place within his commentary is that others don't. 667 00:45:51,199 --> 00:45:55,239 Speaker 3: So, first of all, the example that I gave before 668 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:59,079 of what Brawshi called suke de schmoil noticing that there's 669 00:45:59,079 --> 00:46:04,480 a pattern modern scholars call this latter parallelism, where there 670 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,320 is a you have a poetic line and in the 671 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:12,079 beginning of the phrase. In the first half of the 672 00:46:12,079 --> 00:46:15,760 poetic line, a noun or a verb appears, and then 673 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:19,119 it's repeated in the second half of the line, and 674 00:46:19,119 --> 00:46:22,199 there's an elaboration of it in the second half of 675 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:29,000 the u the line. When you study about Biblical poetry 676 00:46:29,039 --> 00:46:33,119 these days in a university where they teach about these things, 677 00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,280 they'll tell you that's yes, that's what's going on in 678 00:46:36,559 --> 00:46:41,840 many lines of Biblical poetry. And and rashbamb writes about 679 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:46,440 this at length. And to notice that when it is 680 00:46:47,039 --> 00:46:53,119 you mean ha hashem, if your right hand God is glorious, 681 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,880 your right hand God will destroy the enemy. That there 682 00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,559 aren't two right hands that are being described here. It's 683 00:46:59,599 --> 00:47:04,840 just a stylistic way of writing writing a Hebrew poem. 684 00:47:05,199 --> 00:47:08,559 You know, that's an important tool for understanding what should 685 00:47:08,559 --> 00:47:13,400 be paid attention to and what what need not be 686 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:17,239 paid attention to. Why is there a repetition because that 687 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:22,880 is the style It goes back Rushwan mentioned the first 688 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,360 person by any means to talk about, you know, common 689 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:30,960 biblical style. You'll find tabletic disagreements where let's say, a 690 00:47:31,079 --> 00:47:36,119 verse says shamorish maroon, it says keep you shall keep 691 00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,800 it uses a verb twice, and one rabbi will say 692 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,760 that's the doubling came to teach us thus and such, 693 00:47:45,039 --> 00:47:49,800 and then another rabbi will say that that's how you 694 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,920 speak in Biblical Hebrew, and you don't need to make 695 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,559 a big deal out of it. The Tumble does that 696 00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,880 in a number of places, and Restauran does that all 697 00:48:00,119 --> 00:48:06,800 so in more places. Noticing what constitutes standard biblical style. 698 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:11,000 If anomalies are important for you, if unusual things in 699 00:48:11,039 --> 00:48:13,440 the text are important for you, then you have to 700 00:48:13,519 --> 00:48:16,079 know what is anomalists So what is an anomaloust? And 701 00:48:16,159 --> 00:48:21,039 if you it's important to see what the what the 702 00:48:21,119 --> 00:48:24,480 pattern is, what the literary pattern is that somebody is. 703 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,639 Speaker 1: Following interesting and and as you say, you know the 704 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,960 rush bumbs as let's say, in the nineteen twentieth century 705 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,519 such as Chada and others also picked up and ran 706 00:48:35,599 --> 00:48:38,119 with this and that there are that the Tanaka is 707 00:48:38,159 --> 00:48:42,039 written not just is also, among other things, a good 708 00:48:42,079 --> 00:48:47,000 books written with sudden techniques and certain styles. And that's yeah, 709 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,800 I ask you, let me ask you. So the rush 710 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,199 bomb is a very interesting commentary. He's also an odd 711 00:48:53,199 --> 00:48:59,519 commentator in that he sort of refuses to say and 712 00:48:59,679 --> 00:49:03,239 there In other words, you read Ramban Barbunell and others, 713 00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:04,760 and they sort of they make a point about the 714 00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,639 pust oken question, and they say and therefore and kind 715 00:49:07,639 --> 00:49:12,559 of build an edifice of ah of ideas, of the 716 00:49:12,599 --> 00:49:14,559 sort of philosophy of Judaism. And then they kind of 717 00:49:14,679 --> 00:49:17,599 use their commentary of the Toura as a platform for 718 00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:22,880 building a larger palace of ideas, whereas Rushbam seems very. 719 00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:23,360 Speaker 2: Retisent to do that. 720 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:24,880 Speaker 1: In fact, it doesn't seem to be interested in doing 721 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:26,920 that at all. And so I guess I have a 722 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,280 double headed question, one of which is why does he 723 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,199 seem disinclined to do that? And the second is despite this, 724 00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:38,079 are there elements of a worldview that one can discern 725 00:49:38,079 --> 00:49:41,440 from Rushbum's commentary on Alatora? Is there a russibamb philosophy 726 00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,920 of Judaism, let's say, which appears even vaguely, even a 727 00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:49,119 silhouette of a philosophy that comes from this perish or 728 00:49:49,199 --> 00:49:49,800 were talking about. 729 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,440 Speaker 2: No, this is just he's just explaining. 730 00:49:52,039 --> 00:49:57,280 Speaker 3: The text great questions. First of all, I would say 731 00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:01,480 that that you're right, and I often said to my 732 00:50:01,599 --> 00:50:07,199 students that your shool asps you to speak at sudash 733 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,519 luchet on schabat and you're looking for a dvar tora, 734 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:15,320 don't look in Rushbomb. You are unlikely to find some 735 00:50:15,519 --> 00:50:18,440 you'll find some insight into the text. But if you 736 00:50:18,519 --> 00:50:23,199 want to say something in shool and have a conclusion 737 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,559 and therefore we should be doing uh this or such, 738 00:50:26,599 --> 00:50:31,079 here here's something to h some value that we should 739 00:50:31,119 --> 00:50:36,159 be pursuing. You're better off using more meat Rashik commentators 740 00:50:36,199 --> 00:50:39,400 than this. Why does rushbamb avoid doing this for the 741 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,199 most part. I don't think he avoids it one hundred percent, 742 00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:42,559 but he. 743 00:50:42,519 --> 00:50:46,239 Speaker 4: Does avoid it for the for the most part because 744 00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,320 I think because he thinks that the mead Rashik method 745 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,239 of reading the text, as I said before, and as 746 00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:56,800 he says very often, is a valid way of reading. 747 00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,400 Speaker 3: The text, and that's the way of reading the text 748 00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:05,039 that comes up with the and therefore kind of understanding, 749 00:51:05,079 --> 00:51:10,559 and therefore we jew should be doing thus, thus and such. Nevertheless, 750 00:51:10,639 --> 00:51:15,480 there are a few places where he does he does 751 00:51:15,559 --> 00:51:20,960 teach I think it does try to teach moral moral lessons. 752 00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:25,199 One example that comes to mind is when he talks 753 00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:33,239 about uh talks about succot. So there is a question 754 00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:37,320 the number of medieval rabbis and modern rabbi stealth with off. 755 00:51:38,199 --> 00:51:44,280 If Succot commemorates the fact that when we left Egypt 756 00:51:44,639 --> 00:51:50,320 we dwelt in succot, then why are we celebrating succot 757 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:55,519 in the fall because we didn't leave Egypt in the fall. 758 00:51:56,039 --> 00:51:59,880 We should we should have our sadr in a soca 759 00:52:00,079 --> 00:52:03,440 because that's when we left Egypt, so we should build 760 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,719 a soka in the So there are all sorts of 761 00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,559 explanations in rush Bomb deals with this on the I think, 762 00:52:09,559 --> 00:52:12,519 on the shot level in a very in a very 763 00:52:12,519 --> 00:52:16,880 moving kind of manner. He says that the time of 764 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,519 year when people are harvesting is the time of year 765 00:52:20,599 --> 00:52:25,840 that they are most likely to feel Kocho Yadia sali 766 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,679 At a fail has a g isn't a great I've 767 00:52:29,679 --> 00:52:33,480 got all this stuff, I'm I've brought in the harvest 768 00:52:33,559 --> 00:52:38,840 now and I don't really I don't really need God 769 00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:45,079 God's help because that's a farmer. Uh is in the 770 00:52:45,159 --> 00:52:48,840 black in his in his books around squat time when 771 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,880 he's gathered in all of the all of the fruit, 772 00:52:53,559 --> 00:52:56,880 and rush Bomb says this is a time of year 773 00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:02,880 where it's important to teach people humility and to remember 774 00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:08,440 the humble origins of the Jewish people, to remember that 775 00:53:09,679 --> 00:53:13,199 once upon a time we didn't own any land, and 776 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:14,760 we were wandering in the desert. 777 00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:20,239 Speaker 6: And that's why, that's why we go and move out 778 00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:24,360 of our houses and move into a suka at the 779 00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,760 time of year when we are doing the best financially, 780 00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:28,960 because we. 781 00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:32,840 Speaker 3: Should remember the humble origins of our of our people. 782 00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:38,840 And this also helps explain an an anomaly in that text. 783 00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:44,840 The text about Sukhota says quoha is rahbi Israel. Yeso 784 00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:49,719 every ezra modern Hebrews citizen, but they the landed people. 785 00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:53,960 And this is the only time in the Bible that 786 00:53:54,039 --> 00:53:58,000 the word ezrach appears in a legal context and doesn't 787 00:53:58,079 --> 00:54:03,679 say ha is rach. Bagel doesn't say both the landed 788 00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,400 the people who are part of the landed gentry, and 789 00:54:07,639 --> 00:54:11,599 the strangers are the converts who have joined you here. 790 00:54:11,639 --> 00:54:15,599 It just says that the israk should move and rush 791 00:54:15,639 --> 00:54:18,039 Bump says, well, the ra is the one who really 792 00:54:18,119 --> 00:54:22,559 needs to move into a suka, because the Israh is 793 00:54:22,599 --> 00:54:25,840 the one who's likely to feel that on the top 794 00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,719 of the world now because he's he's brought in the 795 00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:32,360 harvest and he's doing doing great, and he's he's the 796 00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:33,039 one who. 797 00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:38,360 Speaker 7: Really needs to move into a sukka every fall, So 798 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:43,039 that you know, that's a moral lesson that he attaches 799 00:54:43,199 --> 00:54:44,280 to the text. 800 00:54:44,519 --> 00:54:46,079 Speaker 3: So if they ever ask you to give it to 801 00:54:46,159 --> 00:54:48,960 our tora around some quot time and you're looking for one, 802 00:54:49,559 --> 00:54:53,599 you can you can quote that one from from rush Bomb, 803 00:54:53,679 --> 00:54:57,960 but they are few and far between. His attempts to 804 00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,960 to say, as you put it, and therefore or here's 805 00:55:01,039 --> 00:55:04,400 what we should be doing, and he doesn't see that 806 00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,320 as the purpose of his commentary. 807 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:10,559 Speaker 1: Would you say that that is a characteristic difference between 808 00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:15,400 the Spara and Ashkena's schools of a country or is 809 00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:19,039 that taking it too far? Is that sort of building 810 00:55:19,079 --> 00:55:21,360 a you know, making a mountain out of a molehill, 811 00:55:21,639 --> 00:55:22,119 as it were. 812 00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:30,039 Speaker 3: No, I don't think that that's something that is specifically 813 00:55:30,039 --> 00:55:32,760 a sparad kind of thing. Certainly, Rashi is trying to 814 00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,679 do uh to do that in his commentary, and he's 815 00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:40,480 trying to leave you with with moral messages and the 816 00:55:40,519 --> 00:55:45,840 whole question of how to categorize Ramban. Ramban, of course, 817 00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:50,280 came from Spain and from that perspective is from Farrad, 818 00:55:50,639 --> 00:55:53,559 but he came from Christian Spain, and Christian Spain is 819 00:55:55,119 --> 00:55:58,880 is more part of the world of Rashi and Rasbaan 820 00:55:59,079 --> 00:56:03,639 that it is part of the world of Ibanezra and Rambam. 821 00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:09,920 Speaker 1: Interesting, Okay, fine, fair enough, President monte Lock. We're coming 822 00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,639 towards the end sadly of our interview today. But I 823 00:56:12,639 --> 00:56:14,320 do want to ask one final question which I asked 824 00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:16,599 to many of my guests, which as well as which 825 00:56:16,639 --> 00:56:19,880 is that if you could sit down tonight to dinner 826 00:56:20,639 --> 00:56:23,960 with the subject of your of your studies with Rushbamb, 827 00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:26,599 what would you what would you be asking him if 828 00:56:26,599 --> 00:56:28,960 you had an opportunity to converse with him, What is 829 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,920 it that you'd like to bring up with him? And yeah, 830 00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:34,199 you know, would you imagine he would say to your 831 00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,639 your question or your query? 832 00:56:40,079 --> 00:56:43,480 Speaker 3: So the big question that I've been thinking of for 833 00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:46,599 forty or fifty years, whereas I've been studying and writing 834 00:56:46,639 --> 00:56:51,079 about Rush Farmbers, why did he write the commentary and 835 00:56:51,199 --> 00:56:54,639 the so far shelter of are in the bottom line analysis? 836 00:56:54,880 --> 00:57:00,599 What was the purpose of writing the commentary? And there 837 00:57:00,639 --> 00:57:05,239 are there are a number of possible answers that that 838 00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:07,079 that I could give to this, but I'd like to 839 00:57:07,119 --> 00:57:11,519 hear what his answer is why he was doing it. 840 00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:15,400 On a certain level, he's trying to show that he 841 00:57:15,559 --> 00:57:20,559 understands shot better than his grandfather understands shot. And you know, well, 842 00:57:20,719 --> 00:57:28,039 Rashi says Anivo Badielkra, rush Bamb says almost the same thing, 843 00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:34,159 and and Rushbam says, h you're interested in the mead rashim, 844 00:57:34,239 --> 00:57:36,880 you can find many of them in the works of 845 00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:41,119 my grandfather Rashi. So it could just be that he's 846 00:57:41,119 --> 00:57:44,519 trying to say, you're trying to do shot. Here's how 847 00:57:44,559 --> 00:57:50,639 you dupe shot. It's possible also that Rushbamb felt that 848 00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:56,079 if how shall I put it, if God chose not 849 00:57:56,239 --> 00:57:59,920 to write the Shokanaru and not to write the Talmud, 850 00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:05,639 but to write the Torah that has a shot meaning 851 00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:10,559 to it, that maybe God wanted us to be looking 852 00:58:10,599 --> 00:58:15,800 at the shot meaning. Also, even though we won't be 853 00:58:16,239 --> 00:58:19,719 conducting our lives since religious Jews on the basis of 854 00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,639 the shot meaning, maybe God wanted us to be doing this. 855 00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:26,079 So those are a couple of the possible reasons why 856 00:58:26,239 --> 00:58:29,119 rush Bamb could have written this commentary, and that would 857 00:58:29,199 --> 00:58:35,159 be the first question that I would ask him. 858 00:58:35,199 --> 00:58:39,880 Speaker 1: Interesting, okay, fair enough, that is certainly worthy of consideration. 859 00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:42,960 Professor Martin Lucchan, thank you so very much for Jody 860 00:58:43,039 --> 00:58:45,480 yesterday on the podcast of Jewish Ideas. This has been 861 00:58:45,719 --> 00:58:49,800 a great pleasure and you've suddenly spurred us on too 862 00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:51,360 much for the thought on this topic. 863 00:58:51,599 --> 00:58:53,840 Speaker 2: Thank you very much for your contributions and we hope 864 00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:54,360 to see you again. 865 00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,960 Speaker 3: You very good. Thank you for inviting me. 866 00:58:58,519 --> 00:59:00,960 Speaker 1: This has been the podcast of Doing Ideas by Tora 867 00:59:01,039 --> 00:59:04,320 in Motion, produced by Alisha Kellman and myself JJ Kimbri, 868 00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,719 edited and mixed by Alicia Kelman. You can stay up 869 00:59:07,719 --> 00:59:10,280 to date by subscribing in your favorite podcast app. To 870 00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:13,199 support more thoughtful Jewish content like this, please visit torre 871 00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:14,079 in motion dot org. 872 00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:19,039 Speaker 2: Slash donated