WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:03.520 You know, like the Gnostics or whatever. I just call 2 00:00:03.640 --> 00:00:08.320 him crazy. So you're you're you're a goober. You're an idiot, 3 00:00:08.359 --> 00:00:18.239 a goofball. That's about it. Jooshah Fat Julian Canadian two dollars. 4 00:00:18.760 --> 00:00:24.879 Sam Shamun apologized, okay on about what I mean. Josiah 5 00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:28.079 A leron twenty dollars, God bless you. The Calvioc turned 6 00:00:28.199 --> 00:00:32.159 Orthodox because of you and your examples. Santos humane is 7 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:38.000 ten dollars. Sam apologized about five minutes ago. Okay, I mean, 8 00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:39.840 if we want to be on good terms, I'm open 9 00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:45.880 to that. I hope this doesn't divide people. We all 10 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:52.039 keep walking. Respect everything that you do. CAUCUSUS two pounds 11 00:00:52.280 --> 00:00:54.840 or two euros. I never thought Sam would do this. 12 00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:58.240 Lord of Mercy MKG Canadian five dollars and forget. I'm 13 00:00:58.280 --> 00:01:03.119 all for forgiveness, but what is a bipolar apology worth? 14 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:10.200 Sam needs help? Well, I mean I'm fine with I 15 00:01:10.319 --> 00:01:12.799 have to think about what would be the wisest course here. 16 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:17.840 So Joey says we're two dollars. We need Jay on 17 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:20.159 the Whatever podcast? Now guess what? So I did talk 18 00:01:20.200 --> 00:01:24.079 to Brian today from Whatever, it looks like what we're 19 00:01:24.120 --> 00:01:26.719 gonna do is We're gonna have a debate on whatever 20 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:32.680 in about a month, and I think I'm going to 21 00:01:32.760 --> 00:01:37.519 debate not so Aerdite that debated Jim Bob and Jake Rattlesnake. 22 00:01:39.079 --> 00:01:43.959 There's also going to be a debate about the CI's 23 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:49.120 relationship to ISIS and al Qaeda that I'll be debating 24 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:54.079 a post a profit. But it looks like that'll have 25 00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:56.319 to be June because the first time we can do 26 00:01:56.439 --> 00:01:58.840 it him and me is like June. So I think 27 00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:02.159 in June we're going to try to do that, and 28 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:05.680 then I'll be going on to perhaps other large podcasts 29 00:02:05.719 --> 00:02:09.280 on the West Coast in the next month. So we're 30 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:12.159 trying to make that happen. Tain't nothing ten dollars. Did 31 00:02:12.199 --> 00:02:15.960 you see Dave Smith versus Doug Murray on Joe Rogan 32 00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:19.199 Israel debate. I was actually gonna play this tomorrow, so 33 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:22.560 you see that Rogan. I've got like fifty clips for 34 00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:24.520 tomorrow's stream that I thought would be funny to watch. 35 00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:26.599 It was just going to be a chill string. Murray's 36 00:02:26.680 --> 00:02:29.120 entire argument was an appeal to thirty. He said, if 37 00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:32.919 you've not been to Israel, you can't speak that's what. 38 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:39.080 That's what not so Aerdite's debate partner was saying in 39 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:44.159 their debate right which they were debating patriarchy and feminism 40 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:46.400 and all that guy, All that guy I wanted to 41 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:48.520 say is that you can't talk about Israel. Haven't been there, Like, 42 00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:52.000 what does that have to do with patriarchy. Let's talk God. 43 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:55.759 Ten dollars. Dick Toddus, Pope number nine. All the princes 44 00:02:55.759 --> 00:02:57.360 of the world shall kiss the feet of the Pope 45 00:02:58.000 --> 00:02:59.759 number ten. His name alone will be spoken in the 46 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:02.000 church is number eleven. This is the only name in 47 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:06.199 the world. Greg was going crazy. Oh I'm a pope, Gregory. Yes, 48 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:10.080 So again, if you're not aware of this, here is 49 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:23.759 Dick Tatus, Pope number nine. All the princes of the 50 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:25.599 world will kiss the feet of the Pope number ten. 51 00:03:26.039 --> 00:03:27.919 His name alone is that which can be spoken in 52 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:37.000 the churches, number eleven. It's the only name in the world. 53 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:45.360 There is that. So we got a bunch of super 54 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:47.159 chats here. I'm trying to get through these, and then 55 00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:52.680 we'll go to refuting allbrecks, low tier paper stuff, MKG 56 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:57.240 two dollars. That's why anti Muslim conversions are suspicious no 57 00:03:57.280 --> 00:04:02.479 head to quest two dollars. The latest community post is apology. 58 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:06.039 He says that you started if you're not innocent. Okay, 59 00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:10.319 I mean, I'm sorry that he took it as a feud, 60 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:13.280 like for me to DM him. Okay, I didn't know 61 00:04:13.319 --> 00:04:19.160 that causes him to be so mad. Okay. Most people, 62 00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:22.199 you know, they might be tempted to look at their 63 00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:24.439 phone if they're on an interview and their board or something, 64 00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:26.560 But most people like I, I've not looked at my 65 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:29.959 phone this entire live stream. So how am I supposed 66 00:04:29.959 --> 00:04:34.120 to know that it triggers him when somebody messages him 67 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:41.160 on him on his phone? Quest outset Eddie five bucks 68 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:45.360 or all worldviews circular? You said it before in debates. 69 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:49.240 I think maybe because people hear the word circular and 70 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:51.879 they think of the fallacy of circularity, it might be better, 71 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:56.439 as FDA says, to refer to it as recursive or 72 00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:01.199 self referencing. Gilbert Valenzuela five dollars. My family and are 73 00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:03.279 being baptized a Saturday. The Orthodox Church says, probab, your 74 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:06.160 hard work played a big part in my conversion from 75 00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:08.319 the Roman Catholic Church. Hey man, I appreciate that that's 76 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:10.759 great to hear. Bad ghosts Face five dollars. For what 77 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:12.399 it's worth, Sam is taking out his post and he 78 00:05:12.439 --> 00:05:18.759 posted apology. All right, So Sam called you a coward, 79 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:22.920 he didn't apologize, okay, I mean, I don't know what 80 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:34.160 san Diego Sanchez five dollars, Sam the paranormal, paranoral ORB 81 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:41.120 guy won't go Orb Novus Orbo Forever Notorious Knives five dollars. 82 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:44.839 Look at Sam's latest YouTube post, Bad ghost Face two dollars. 83 00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:50.560 Never mind Sid two dollars. It's called samifesting. I condom 84 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:54.839 Matt three dollars. Solo Orbo Skima Bear five dollars. Hello, 85 00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:58.920 orb theory a colcavayable five dollars, should debate orthodox musclem Now, 86 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:02.439 somebody asked me about this today, and I'm not familiar 87 00:06:02.519 --> 00:06:07.160 with who he is. He's calling you out on TikTok 88 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:13.959 and has seventy thousand TikTok followers. I tried to build 89 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:19.160 up my TikTok, but it's difficult. So I wonder if 90 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:21.079 he has does he have like a YouTube or something, 91 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:22.800 I mean, if we maybe we can set it up 92 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:26.000 outside of TikTok. It's just a hassle to try to 93 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:29.920 do stuff like that on TikTok, So does he have 94 00:06:29.959 --> 00:06:32.800 a Twitter that'd be easier for me outset Eddy two dollars. 95 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:37.040 How do you go to the bathroom with carnivore die 96 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:39.399 without fiber? You don't actually need fiber, by the way, 97 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:42.360 if you drink coffee, that works well at annual five dollars. 98 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:46.639 I tried to listening for Bible explanations, but I stopped 99 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:50.439 because it's impossible to follow the topic when he stops 100 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:53.000 to bash somebody every two minutes. As funny as that 101 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:56.560 can be, but it's our five dollars. He's calling Jay 102 00:06:56.639 --> 00:06:59.439 out for a debate. Now, I look, just forget it man, 103 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:05.000 one shot a seventeen twenty dollars what you said about 104 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:07.920 Internet apologists not being qualified to teach theology. If you 105 00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:10.240 look at David Wood's recent debate with Alex, this came 106 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:12.279 to mind. There were a few months that we had 107 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:17.399 a team up where we had a Jay Dyer up there, 108 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:20.639 and Alex would have gotten eviscerated. Yeah. I mean I've 109 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:24.240 messaged at Alex O'Connor for a long time to try 110 00:07:24.279 --> 00:07:30.639 to debate, so it just gets ignored. Chris Crimson Specter 111 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:37.680 two dollars. Cat hairs are now meauricles. That's a good 112 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:41.240 one as ghost. Two dollars, Jay, will you debate Harlot's 113 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:44.720 on the whatever? Well, the way that show works is 114 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:47.920 typically you debate anybody. I guess, but I'm gonna mainly 115 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:50.399 be debating not so aradit, but I'm sure I'll also 116 00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:56.040 be debating the other people in there. Jbpelty a two dollars, 117 00:07:56.600 --> 00:07:59.560 Sam is going live in a few Okay, I mean 118 00:07:59.720 --> 00:08:06.600 I don't like I've laid out my critiques. So there 119 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:09.680 you go, dank naked five dollars. What is it? We're 120 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:11.959 gonna get to the papsy stuff in a second. What 121 00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:14.879 is a good starting point to learn about Orthodox position? 122 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:19.519 I'm not a Catholic. I want to learn more. Pamazansky's 123 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:27.000 book is a great uh kanachisis text Orthodox Dogmatics by Palmazansky, 124 00:08:27.079 --> 00:08:28.720 So I would start there and then maybe moved to 125 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:32.159 Lasky's Mystical Theology Eastern Church. Jay Rock seven to eleven. 126 00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:33.879 Who is Jeff Daherty? 127 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:34.759 Uh? 128 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:37.559 Well, he was some sort of evangelical ish pastor who 129 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:42.200 then became a neo pagan and he debated Andrew So 130 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:45.639 I haven't kept up with that guy. Accounts payable two dollars. 131 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:49.120 I do not believe that Aposse Prophet is genuine in 132 00:08:49.159 --> 00:08:55.559 his conversion. You know time, I think will tell Joe 133 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:58.360 five dollars. Sam didn't really apologize. He has a community 134 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:03.960 post's apology for his audience. It says that you demonized him. 135 00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:08.320 I mean, where what's where's the demonizing? Where's the anything? 136 00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:12.399 All I did was ask him to debate, and you've 137 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:20.879 got like meltdown. He doesn't have any evidence of me 138 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:23.600 ever saying anything negative to him or bad about him 139 00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:29.639 or anything. I've literally always been respectful to him, and 140 00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:36.639 even after the drama when I asked him, when I 141 00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:40.440 asked him to come and set up something where we 142 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:42.919 can have time responses. This is what I got. 143 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:47.480 We're gonna call you out. We're gonna get you. Don't 144 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:50.600 worry about it now, girl, get. 145 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:51.279 Some more energies. 146 00:09:51.360 --> 00:10:04.639 Maybe I'll help you. Like I said, thanks, I'm going 147 00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:06.000 to show them more round from way. 148 00:10:06.840 --> 00:10:08.639 Down Jo David. 149 00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:16.720 Like he's referring to my jokes about James White that 150 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:24.879 it doesn't make sense. But account's payable two dollars. He 151 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:30.120 has a YouTube channel called or Orthodox Muslim outset Eddie 152 00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:33.159 two dollars Jay, Do you say pop or soda? Nobody 153 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:39.840 from Tennessee says pop. That's a Yankee thing. Let's see, 154 00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:43.799 I'm trying to keep up with all the super I 155 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:45.519 think I've gotten. Let me see, there's probably some more 156 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:54.720 super jets over here. Let's see we got two new members. 157 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:57.639 Shout out to the members with the members content is 158 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:01.879 linked and I added a couple of things to the 159 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:17.120 members content too, by the way, pretty recently. All right, 160 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:19.279 so let's get to this in this one. 161 00:11:19.320 --> 00:11:21.799 This is a fun topic. You know, we covered the 162 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:24.559 americ of the conception. Another one that often comes up 163 00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:30.639 with Protestant circles and Orthodox circles especially is the papacy. 164 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:33.600 So I wanted to talk about that now. In the 165 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:38.159 last video you mentioned that for you, though there are 166 00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:43.320 other factors that came in to your conversion from Protestantism 167 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:48.120 to Catholicism, the papacy was a big one. Tell me why. 168 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:53.279 Yeah, well, it really played a very big role, number 169 00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:58.960 one when I converted from Protestantism. But of course that's 170 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:03.159 like considered that way Orthodox and Cathos then of course 171 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:06.159 it becomes a whole different angle where you look at 172 00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:10.519 evidence for the papacy, and I began to look at 173 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:14.360 the history of the papacy throughout the early Church, Pope 174 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:17.240 Saint Clement of Rome very early on, and on and on, 175 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:20.200 leading all the way up to and beyond Pope Saint 176 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:24.600 Leo the Great, and I became ever more convinced of 177 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:29.039 the incredible role of the pope throughout history. Now, of course, 178 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:30.919 I may be get too far ahead of myself before that. 179 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:34.399 Of course, as we know very well, the clear foundation 180 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:37.919 of the papacy is the Scripture. It truly is, so 181 00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:42.440 that laid the groundwork for me. Scripture of course. 182 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:45.879 Well, the first out here that I would say is 183 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:48.519 that I went through all this same stuff too, right, 184 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:52.799 So I had the same ideology as a Protestant who 185 00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:56.960 started reading The Catholic Apologist in two thousand and one. 186 00:12:57.320 --> 00:13:00.360 I went heavy into it. I read tons and tons 187 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:03.600 of the secondary literature, and then I decided I to 188 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:05.559 have to get the church Father's set right. So you 189 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:08.960 see that set piece that's behind Lofton there where the 190 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:13.559 untouched church Fathers are basically immaculate because he hasn't actually 191 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:17.559 read them. I actually started reading them a lot, and 192 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:20.679 I was fortunate enough to have a job where I 193 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:23.159 could read the Church Fathers for about ten years straight. 194 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:26.639 So this put me in a position that a lot 195 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:28.960 of people don't have. I was also doing university at 196 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:30.960 the same time, and I had a very easy job 197 00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:35.360 for about ten years in my twenties, and so that 198 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:38.759 Philip schaff Church Father's set was a lot of my 199 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:43.399 time at work. And I initially had a similar situation, 200 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:47.320 probably to Albrech, where I thought, Okay, it's either Roman 201 00:13:47.320 --> 00:13:50.639 Catholic or it's Protestant, right, that's what it's got to be, right, 202 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:53.200 And there weren't a whole lot of internet options back 203 00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:58.000 in about two thousand and one two three where you 204 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:01.159 could look into, you know, like the Orthodox sphere or 205 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:05.159 something like that. What you guys have today didn't exist 206 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:08.600 in two thousand and three. And probably maybe Albrecht was 207 00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:10.559 getting into this kind of stuff back then as well. 208 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:13.879 I don't know what year he converted, but it might 209 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:17.080 have been around the same time as my interest in 210 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:20.320 church history and the Church Fathers and the question of 211 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:23.159 the canon, you know, back in early two thousands. But 212 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:27.600 the problem is that it's very much it's a thing 213 00:14:27.639 --> 00:14:30.840 that's based on a lot of assumptions, and there's a 214 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:37.720 lot of to use the Loftonian term, there's a lot 215 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:43.159 of nuance and context that Roman Catholics leave out of 216 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:48.240 their favorite quote minds. And when I first encountered the 217 00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:51.840 quote minds through you know Butler and Daalgren and Hess's book, 218 00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:56.600 Stephen Ray's work or Scott Hans books. I have all those. 219 00:14:56.679 --> 00:14:59.200 I read all those guys. I was reading all that 220 00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:02.639 stuff in the early two t thousands, right, Jerrymattitics is stuff. 221 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:06.279 I got to be personal friends with Jerrymattics. So I 222 00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:10.519 went from Bonson World to Roman Catholic Thomas World in 223 00:15:10.519 --> 00:15:12.759 two thousand and one two three. That's when I was 224 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:15.879 really reading and converted. I was already believing the Roman 225 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:18.759 Catholic stuff in two thousand and one, but I didn't 226 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:21.879 have the I wasn't convinced enough to convert yet. So 227 00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:23.600 it took me till about two thousand and three before 228 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:25.240 I converted. And by the way, I took the name Augustine, 229 00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:27.600 which is funny. When I was received in the Kelly Church, 230 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:31.759 and so you know, I've been there, done that. I 231 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:37.480 know this whole process. I know the thinking, but what 232 00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:42.080 happens is that you're tempted, I think, to make the 233 00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:48.440 decision on bad reasons. In other words, you're when you 234 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:50.600 get deeper and deeper into these papal things and you're 235 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:53.440 reading the objections and this and that. I remember one 236 00:15:53.480 --> 00:15:55.600 time in my twenties there was even like a week 237 00:15:55.879 --> 00:16:01.600 where I remember vividly, just non stop reading every day 238 00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:05.639 for a week about the papacy stuff, and I could 239 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:08.759 not decide. I was reading William Webster's book, his trilogy 240 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:12.480 about it. It's all these Protestant you know, quote minds 241 00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:16.399 against the papacy. I was reading all these papal apologetics, 242 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:18.679 and I felt like, you know, at a certain point, 243 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:21.559 I'm just gonna go with papacy because it just seems 244 00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:24.519 like things like the canon, things like you know this, 245 00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:27.639 that it just doesn't work in the Protestant world. But 246 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:30.000 what happens to people who are new to the world 247 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:32.679 of Rome, which was me back then, is that you're 248 00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:37.320 not yet acquainted with the masses of papal documents and 249 00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:40.240 texts that you will have to read. Right. So, just 250 00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:43.720 like we see with like the Hadiths, it's not just 251 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:46.840 the Bible and the ex cathedral statements or the Bible 252 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:49.240 and you know the Catechism of Trands or the Bible 253 00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:52.559 and Denzinger, right, I mean they don't even read Denzinger 254 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:54.120 like I know Denzinger like the back of my hand. 255 00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:56.879 I could. I could demolish these guys going through Denzinger. 256 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:01.759 But you don't know that yet, right. You think it's 257 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:05.119 just this Protestant or Catholic choice. And then when you 258 00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:08.359 go into the world of Rome, you're confronted with an 259 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:12.119 entirely new set of problems. Now you have to understand 260 00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:18.599 the post pre and post Vatican Two teachings. And this 261 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:22.160 confronts every Roman Catholic at a very fundamental parish level, 262 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:28.079 because many Roman Catholic parishes are pretty much Protestantized. You see, 263 00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:31.359 they have guitar masses, they have women that hand out 264 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:35.079 the Eucharist, they have clown masses, they have all the 265 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:39.160 most insane, wild liturgical abuses that you could think of. 266 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:42.039 And then what happens is you try to make sense 267 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:44.519 of this. You try to say, well, I don't have 268 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:51.000 to I know already the cope, the wave of cope 269 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:54.039 that you will go through. You will begin by saying 270 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:56.759 I don't have to accept all of the Vatican two stuff. 271 00:17:56.839 --> 00:18:00.200 I can read it and interpret it in a conservative way, 272 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:02.359 but then you haven't really been presented with reading the 273 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:08.039 pre Vatican two encyclicals like Lamentabiley, Patchindi, Dominici Gracias, like 274 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:15.079 Humanum Janus, like Mauri Voss, like Quanticura, like Mesticiko Porus, 275 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:17.960 like southeiast Cognitium. I can keep going. You don't know 276 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:20.119 those things yet. You haven't read the pre Vatican two 277 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:25.519 papal doctrines extensively. Well, I started doing that right. I 278 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:27.880 realized if I was going to understand Catholicism, I'd have 279 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:31.599 to go to the Rock of Peter and his great 280 00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:35.359 successors in the last three centuries and their vast array 281 00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:37.319 of papal and cyclicals. So guess what I did. I 282 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:40.359 read them all. I read thousands of pages of papal 283 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:42.519 and cyclicals. I read all of the of the thirteenths 284 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:46.079 and cyclicals. I read all the important Pisce to tenth 285 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:49.640 and cyclicals. I read multiple maybe not all of them 286 00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:52.519 because they're not all translated into English. But I've read 287 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:56.599 Pias to twelfth extensively. I've read Piss the eleventh extensively, 288 00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:03.920 and I've even gone back into the Butler the Alberigo 289 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:07.759 two volume set that the Jesuits put out some decades ago. 290 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:10.680 It's like a two hundred dollars set of the Ecumenical 291 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:20.119 Council's original translations from the Jesuit scholars and Tanner and ALBERTA. Goo, 292 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:22.240 I think, is it? And so I started reading the 293 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:25.400 actually the Ecumenical Councils from the Roman Catholic vantage point, right, 294 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:28.799 that's a very rare, unknown set. It's a two volume set. 295 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:32.880 So I immersed myself in all this world. On top 296 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:35.880 of the source documents, as well as getting Denzinger and 297 00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:38.119 reading it entirely all the way through, as well as 298 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:40.000 having the Catechism of Trent as well as having the 299 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:47.839 documents Attican two. I also got the secondary literature. That 300 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:51.640 means I went through all of the traditional Catholic apologies. 301 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:54.119 And so what happens for a lot of people who 302 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:56.640 go into this world, who get to this stage is 303 00:19:56.680 --> 00:19:58.680 you begin to confront do you want to be a 304 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:01.799 trad cat or you're going to defend the novasorto. Each 305 00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:04.640 of them has their respective challenges. I went the route 306 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:06.720 of trad cat. I went to the SSPX, I attended 307 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:09.480 to the Latin Mass for around eight to ten years, 308 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:13.279 maybe nine years technically eight or nine years, and I 309 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:17.680 was in that world very seriously, very intently. I even 310 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:21.839 met with a guy about going into monastical life back 311 00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:24.640 in my twenties, so I was serious enough that I 312 00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:28.039 really wanted to think about monastic life. However, the thing 313 00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:29.880 that turned me off from monastic life was when I 314 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:35.799 went to the diocese spiritual director for that. He was skittles, 315 00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:39.039 like flaming Skittles, and then I read that most of 316 00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:42.400 the Dominicans in the Roman Catholic world are flaming Skittles. 317 00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:45.799 Bye bye, I'm out. I'm so glad I never went 318 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:48.160 that route. But the problem is that if you go 319 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:50.920 this route, this delusion that these people are into, this 320 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:52.680 is what you're going to have to choose between. Do 321 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:55.440 you want to be a crazy tradcat. Do you want 322 00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:58.839 to be a Skittles novasorto? Do you want to be 323 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:02.079 a do you want to go the route of the 324 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:05.720 diocesan Latin Mass. Oh turns out Francis has been shutting 325 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:09.599 those down, So good luck finding your way through the 326 00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:10.920 maze of this nightmare. 327 00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:15.880 It was very clear extree me out of Protestantism. But then, 328 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:19.079 of course, a lot of the claims that we can 329 00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:22.240 make for the papacy, we know very well the Orthodox 330 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:24.759 will say, Okay, I can be on board with that. Yeah, 331 00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:28.960 but we know that that then changes when we go 332 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:32.960 into history, and in my opinion, the evidence for the 333 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:36.480 papacy on the Catholic side is much stronger. 334 00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:38.839 Do you feel like on the Catholic side some of 335 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:44.000 the evidence that has been put forward sometimes is reading 336 00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:47.039 too much into it. Not that there isn't strong evidence, 337 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:51.000 but what I'm saying is impopular apologetic circles. Yeah, do 338 00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:53.160 you feel like some of the evidence that is put 339 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:58.160 forward is not necessarily the best that we have off Yes? 340 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:02.079 For once, I agree with Michael lofton probably ever right. 341 00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:08.599 I think that there is a tendency to grab papal 342 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:12.759 sound bites, Peter sound bites where you will have a 343 00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:16.359 quote of Peters being the head of the cheech, or 344 00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:19.279 a Peter being the leader of the apostles, and we 345 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:23.400 will utilize that as an evidence of the papacy. And 346 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:26.079 as you know very well, Michael, a lot of those 347 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:29.160 quotes the Orthodox can very well give an aim into 348 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:32.559 and to add to that, Oriental Orthodox as well. 349 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:36.079 So yeah, so actually from the outseter, I actually agree 350 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:40.920 with this. So they've started off on surprisingly a pretty 351 00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:41.599 good foot here. 352 00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:47.559 What separates us when it comes to how we view 353 00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:52.400 the papacy? I think that we need to go beyond 354 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:57.119 mirror quote bites. Sure, but here's another thing. I think 355 00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:59.559 that once we do go beyond that, and we look 356 00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:04.519 at the context, in my opinion scripturely and in the 357 00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:07.279 early Church, there really is no other other position. 358 00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:13.160 Now, okay, so I appreciate the admission that not all 359 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:17.319 of the you know, catchphrases Roma spoken cases closed right. 360 00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:20.960 We hear this all the time. There's a great post 361 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:24.400 from Luigi pointing out that you look at the context 362 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:29.880 of let's see, I think I saved it. Let's let's 363 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:40.680 pull up Luigi quote here. Yeah. So, as one example 364 00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:43.279 of this, right, we often hear the Romans spoken cases 365 00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:50.160 closed right, supposedly proving what exactly the final universal jurisdiction 366 00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:53.119 of the papacy. Well wait, wait a minute, Augustine in 367 00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:56.160 context says, let us suppose that the bishops who decided 368 00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:58.640 a case at Rome were not good judges. Wait a minute, 369 00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:00.920 how is that possible? If bat can one true, there 370 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:03.880 still remains a plenary Council of the Universal Church in 371 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.000 which these judges might be put on their defense, so 372 00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:09.480 that if they were convicted of mistake, their decisions would 373 00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:13.720 be reversed. That's Augustine Letter forty three, paragraph nineteen. So no, 374 00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:18.400 there's no When you take out of context statements like 375 00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:21.640 Rome is spoken cases closed, which would be Rome's decision 376 00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:26.319 a particular situation, it does not follow that Rome therefore 377 00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:29.960 had universal jurisdiction and everyone accepted it and it's therefore 378 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.480 case closed. That's not what it meant. And he seems 379 00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:36.000 to be maybe conceding part of that. I don't know 380 00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:39.640 exactly which catchphrases he's talking about, but let's remember that 381 00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:53.480 Chi eighty, the Chi eighty document here, this is the 382 00:24:54.240 --> 00:25:01.559 pretty recent admission from the papacy about else the status 383 00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:05.519 of the canons of Sartica and in what way Rome 384 00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:08.200 was appealed to. This is the appellate structure. If you 385 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:12.720 watch the debate between Ubi and Ibarra, right, some of 386 00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:15.519 the material came up. And actually when I first debated 387 00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:18.720 aborrow years ago, I actually referenced this, and everyone sort 388 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:21.839 of laughed and poo pooed. What I said, but it's 389 00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:26.480 actually admitted right here in paragraph nineteen. Over the centuries, 390 00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:28.319 the number of appeals were made to the Bishop of Rome, 391 00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:31.839 also from the East, in disciplinary matters such as the 392 00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:34.880 deposition of a bishop. Now this sumption, because it notes 393 00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:39.160 that the appeals were disciplinary in nature, this doesn't say 394 00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:43.319 from the outset that the appeals are to settle theological 395 00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:48.240 doctrinal controversies. It says disciplinary matters such as the deposition 396 00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:51.720 of a bishop and attempts was made at the cans 397 00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:54.319 of Sartica in three forty three to establish the rules 398 00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:56.920 of procedure. So this is the appellate structure where you 399 00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.839 have kind of appeals court system. Right Artica was received 400 00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:03.799 at Trollo in six po ninety two, and the Canons 401 00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:06.119 of Sartica determined that a bishop who had been condemned 402 00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:10.039 could appeal to the Bishop of Rome, and that the latter, 403 00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:14.559 if he deemed it appropriate, could order a retrial. Now, 404 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:18.119 does this say that the Bishop of Rome unilaterally makes 405 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:24.160 the decision that shuts the door? It closed? Case closed? 406 00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:28.279 Does this say Rome is spoken cases closed? No, it 407 00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:31.279 says that the Biserrome can order a retrial to be 408 00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:35.000 conducted in the bishop's providence. It's not even conducted in Rome, 409 00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:42.599 It's conducted in the bishop in questions own province. Appeals 410 00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:46.160 regarding disciplinary matters were also made to constantin Up. Remember 411 00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:48.160 when I said this in the bar debate and they 412 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:50.680 all acted like I made this up. Oh, here's your 413 00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:56.519 own papal page, your own papal approved acumenist document admitting 414 00:26:56.599 --> 00:26:59.880 my point. And to other seas. Yeah, of course. If 415 00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:04.200 I I was Maximus and I was disputing with the 416 00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:08.599 Monothelites and I wanted to get the bishops on my side, 417 00:27:09.160 --> 00:27:13.279 I'm gonna appeal to Rome and Constantinople and other seas, 418 00:27:13.319 --> 00:27:17.519 and Antioch and Jerusalem and everywhere. I want them all 419 00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:20.440 on my side. The fact that I appealed to Rome 420 00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:23.119 because it's the first see, it doesn't follow from that 421 00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:25.599 that Rome is the only one that I would appeal to. 422 00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:28.839 This is the silly argument of the Roman Catholics, especially 423 00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:33.119 a Barrow when I debated Borrow. Such appeals to the 424 00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:36.759 major seas were always treated in a unilateral way. Oh, 425 00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:38.839 it doesn't say that they were treated in a what 426 00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:44.039 way synodical way. In other words, the Bishop of Rome 427 00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:48.279 didn't out of hand autocratically determine the matter. It was 428 00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:55.759 referred to a synod synodole. Why is Francis holding a 429 00:27:55.799 --> 00:28:01.960 synod on sinidelity? Because they're admitting our positions. This means 430 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:06.880 that Vatican one isn't true. Appeals to the Bishop of 431 00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:10.640 Rome from the East expressed the communion of the church, 432 00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:14.279 but the Bishop of Rome did not exercise canonical authority 433 00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:17.960 over the churches of the East. What does that tell 434 00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:23.039 you right there? How is Vatican one true? When we 435 00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:25.599 read that Vatican One, as you guys, I hope no, 436 00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:30.720 teaches that the Bishop of Rome has universal, unilateral jurisdiction 437 00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:33.680 over all of the world, and that he got that 438 00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:37.119 from Peter. Vatican one doesn't say that it evolved. It 439 00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:42.079 wasn't a development of doctrine. It's from Peter. 440 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.319 It's most certainly one of those distinctive teachings that if 441 00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:53.799 you were to embrace it, it's like the only real 442 00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:57.799 option that you could go to is Catholicism. But you 443 00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:01.279 then mentioned there, okay, but there is a certain form 444 00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:06.240 of the papacy, if you will, that Orthodox can accept. 445 00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:10.799 How different do you think is maybe a high Orthodox 446 00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:14.799 version of the papacy is compared to the Captain version. 447 00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:17.839 I think it is different enough that would warrant one 448 00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:22.839 to convert to Catholicism. I truly do think it's that different. 449 00:29:24.039 --> 00:29:27.880 I think that we are living in a time where 450 00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:32.599 people are looking at the quotes of the papacy and 451 00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:36.880 people that are Orthodox, and they realize, well, this doesn't 452 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:40.480 quite jibe with the way my view of the Church 453 00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:45.359 is today. So they begin to read into history kinds 454 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:49.640 of words or teachings that they're they're kind of ripping 455 00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:54.680 out of the context. For example, one incredible example, I 456 00:29:54.680 --> 00:29:57.240 could think of the words of Pope Saint Leo the Great, 457 00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:03.000 the tone of Leo at Calcdon. It's amazingly evident that 458 00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:06.559 Pope Saint Leo the Great viewed his position as out 459 00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:08.319 of papal supremacy. 460 00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:13.519 Yeah, it's funny because this has already been debloomked by 461 00:30:14.359 --> 00:30:20.400 the vast history that Ubi and Ibarra have already had. 462 00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:25.079 So this is, I guess, playing on the ignorance of 463 00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:28.079 the Catholic audience that Ubi and Ibarra have already been 464 00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:31.960 debating this for years, right, And this led to an 465 00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:39.559 entire series of exchanges actually over many years, where Ubi 466 00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:45.359 shows that the tone of Leo was not regarded as 467 00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:48.839 ex cathedral. And if I recall, this is like years 468 00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:53.319 of stuff going back. This was years ago, but he 469 00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:57.839 just made this public a few months ago. If I recall, eventually, 470 00:30:57.880 --> 00:31:01.519 I think Ibarra admitted that, Okay, maybe it's not an 471 00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:06.480 easy proof that the tone of Leo was ex cathedral. 472 00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:10.160 So Ibara, if I recall, walked this back, and here 473 00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:15.079 you go, right here, here's Ubi's refutation of point one that, no, 474 00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:19.079 the tone of Leo does not prove ex cathedral. In fact, 475 00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:23.880 Chalcedon if you read something like Denny's book Papalism, it 476 00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:27.759 notes that Calcedon spent two weeks invested. It's either a 477 00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:31.880 week or two weeks investigating the tone to see if 478 00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:35.559 it lined up with the teaching of Saint Cyril. Oh 479 00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:38.880 wait a minute, you thought Leo was the theologian part 480 00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:42.759 of excellence of Calceodon. No, actually, the tone was judged 481 00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:46.200 by the synod to be either in accord with or 482 00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:49.920 out of accord with the teaching of Saint Cyril. So 483 00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:53.559 Cyril was the measure of Calcedon. And you can read 484 00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:56.720 that in the Denny text. And no, there's no ex 485 00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:00.400 cathedra argument out of the tone of Leo. 486 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:03.400 No way around that, right, the language is very clear, 487 00:32:03.759 --> 00:32:08.200 and to deny that to me is you're gonna be 488 00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:08.599 doing metal. 489 00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:13.680 So again, argument number one has already been extensively refuted 490 00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:18.200 in Ubi's refutation of Abara about Leo and Calcedon. Here 491 00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:23.240 again is the link. So argument number one was I 492 00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:28.279 guess lazy on the part of all brect because he's 493 00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:30.759 just repeating what probably what he read in Abara. 494 00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:34.960 Yeah, Leo most certainly held to what I would understand 495 00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:39.279 to be the view of Vatican one supremacy. I don't 496 00:32:39.319 --> 00:32:40.079 think that. 497 00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:44.039 That is okay. Did you hear that the Vatican one 498 00:32:44.160 --> 00:33:04.000 view of papal supremacy unilateral, declarative, ex cathedral definitive teaching 499 00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:13.079 right according to Vatican One, and that universality is directly 500 00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:17.319 from Peter. It is directly to the papacy, does not 501 00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:21.559 come from the Church. It comes directly from Peter to Rome. 502 00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:26.960 Why it's not Antioch and Alexandria, which also derived from Peter. Well, 503 00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:29.799 the Romancalloy Church just says because Peter died there. I mean, 504 00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:32.279 it's just because it is, it's tradition. It's just because 505 00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:37.119 although that we don't have any proof of that. I 506 00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:40.079 mean proof that because he died there therefore the Keroism 507 00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:46.359 extends to the Roman Church. We'll notice that, according to 508 00:33:46.599 --> 00:33:54.039 Lofton and Ulbricht, all of the permanent premissy existed from 509 00:33:54.039 --> 00:34:03.279 the earliest days up until now and it's unilateral. But 510 00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:06.720 wait a minute, what did Rome just admit in the 511 00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:10.840 Chi eighty document appeals to the Bishop of Rome from 512 00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:13.400 the east expressed the communion of the church, but the 513 00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:16.559 Bishop of Rome did not exercise canonical authority over the 514 00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:22.079 churches of the East. Oops disputable. 515 00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:25.400 What I guess my concern is whenever I see some 516 00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:31.159 Catholics pointing to the language at Calcedony where it says, 517 00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:37.679 you know, Peter has spoken through Leo right, immediately thinking 518 00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:42.119 that that automatically proved the Catholic view, or that the 519 00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:45.599 Calcedonian fathers the Catholic view of the papsy. I'm not 520 00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:49.039 saying that they didn't. But what I'm saying is, or 521 00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:50.760 I guess what I'm asking is, do you think that 522 00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:53.280 that alone is enough to really I don't. 523 00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:56.320 No, Yeah, and this is true, right, because you have 524 00:34:56.519 --> 00:35:01.039 statements from pre Calcedonian church fathers that all of the 525 00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:06.320 bishops are Peter, right, Peter is a All the bishops 526 00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:10.440 are images of little Peters. So this just the phrase 527 00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:16.719 Peter has spoken through Leo, doesn't prove Vatican ones claim 528 00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:24.000 that the Bishop of Rome is the singular, autocratic universal 529 00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:27.920 head of the entire church who can universally ex cathedra 530 00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:32.159 pronounce dogmas. It doesn't prove that. So I appreciate again 531 00:35:32.199 --> 00:35:34.239 that they're at least admitting a couple of things here 532 00:35:34.280 --> 00:35:39.039 about these catchphrase arguments. But these catchphrase arguments actually don't 533 00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:44.960 address number one, the contradictions right that we referenced earlier, 534 00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:50.000 the contradictions in what Roman Catholic dogma is in thirteen 535 00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:53.400 oh two, in when I'm sunk them right and when 536 00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:55.719 I'm signed to them in thirteen oh two. You have 537 00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:58.559 to believe in the temporal supremacy of the Roman bishop 538 00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:03.920 to be saved in Vatican two. In terms of religious 539 00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:19.079 liberty indignatatis humane. What's fundamental to the human being is 540 00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:26.559 religious freedom dignitatis humane. HM. That's interesting because I seem 541 00:36:26.599 --> 00:36:31.679 to remember a Roman Catholic document called the Syllabus of Errors. 542 00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:43.079 Now Pius the ninth is the pope of Vatican two, 543 00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:47.400 mean Vatican One where you have the definition of the 544 00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:52.880 universal supremacy of the Roman Bishop. And it's interesting because 545 00:36:54.960 --> 00:37:00.760 in this document he talks about errors can earning the 546 00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:16.599 temporal supremacy of the Church and the Pope. And what's 547 00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:19.159 funny about this is that as late as Vatican won, 548 00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:26.599 you had the papacy still defending the temporal supremacy of 549 00:37:26.599 --> 00:37:37.079 the Roman Bishop. So let's talk about number fifteen. Every 550 00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:39.440 man is free to embrace and profess the religion that 551 00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:44.760 he guided by the light of reason and considers true condemned. 552 00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:48.760 So this is the section of the Syllabus of Airs 553 00:37:48.760 --> 00:37:50.199 of Pius the ninth. And by the way, this was 554 00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:54.360 attached to Vatican one, this is condemned in paragraph fifteen. 555 00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:58.719 Right the rights to freedom of religion, freedom of choice, 556 00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:02.280 man may and the observance of any religion whatsoever find salvation. 557 00:38:02.519 --> 00:38:07.440 Was what does no retaughtes say that Hindus find refuge 558 00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:11.559 in God in Hinduism, Men find refuge in God with 559 00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:15.400 love and trust. Man may, in the observance of any 560 00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:21.199 religion whatsoever, find eternal salvation condemned. So then we come 561 00:38:21.239 --> 00:38:24.000 down to errors concerning the Church and her rights. The 562 00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:28.880 Syllabus of errors. This specifically says the Church has not 563 00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:31.719 the power of defining dogmatically that the Church is the 564 00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:35.079 calogy Church is the true religion. Condemned. So, in other words, 565 00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:40.360 not having Catholic states, the Church does not have temporal power. Condemned. 566 00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:48.559 The ministers of the Church and the Roman pontiff are 567 00:38:48.599 --> 00:39:00.320 to be excluded from temporal dominion condemned. So US of 568 00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:12.840 Errors paragraphs nineteen to twenty seven uphold the classic medieval 569 00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:21.119 doctrine of dictatus Pope him sank them in the last paragraph. 570 00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:23.440 You have to believe in the temporal supremacy to be 571 00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:26.639 saved all the way up into the eighteen nineties, or 572 00:39:26.679 --> 00:39:30.280 excuse me, eighteen sixty four, it's reaffirmed a Vatican one. 573 00:39:31.239 --> 00:39:36.360 The same positions are condemned. And what does Dignatati Himani do. Oh, 574 00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:43.559 it turns out fundamental to humanity is religious liberty, and 575 00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:47.800 we don't really teach that papal temporal supremacy anymore. You 576 00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:51.239 understand that, how could it be necessary for my salvation 577 00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:53.239 to believe in the temporal authority of the Roman bishop 578 00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:56.400 when religious liberty is true? Now, don't you see that 579 00:39:56.440 --> 00:40:05.400 those are incommensurable the right to religious liberty and freedom. 580 00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:09.760 The Protestant doctrines of religious liberty and freedom fundamental to 581 00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:37.440 human liberty, something previously condemned. Where is it condemned? People 582 00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:43.320 in single called Marai Vos eighteen thirty two liberalism and 583 00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:50.119 religious indifferentism aka freedom of religion condemned. It is a 584 00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:57.000 heresy of the Enlightenment. Liberty of conscience, freedom of worship, 585 00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:04.239 freedom of the press. H oh condemned heresies? Uh oh 586 00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:19.559 oh oh? Were there there is? Mauri Vos condemned. Liberty 587 00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:23.119 of conscience, freedom of conscience, freedom of worshiped, freedom of press, 588 00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:31.719 free speech condemned. What does voon can do? Say no, 589 00:41:31.840 --> 00:41:40.280 it's actually the fundamental element of human nature. Human dignity 590 00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:47.280 is fundamentally religious freedom. Murori Vos Liberty of conscience, liberty 591 00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:52.400 of worship, freedom of worship, indifferentism condemned. 592 00:41:55.760 --> 00:41:56.400 Do you know why? 593 00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:04.079 Because the papacy had mold and cyclicals against freemasonry, wherein 594 00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:09.119 they charge liberty, equality and fraternity as free Masonic doctrines. 595 00:42:14.119 --> 00:42:22.199 Vatican two accepts the liberalism condemned and Maururi boss yet 596 00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:23.079 another example. 597 00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:32.360 I think that you must supplement it with much more. 598 00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:37.320 Number one, look at how was the tone of Leo 599 00:42:37.400 --> 00:42:42.280 accepted or received right and then supplement that with how. 600 00:42:42.199 --> 00:42:46.840 Did let's talk? Godfight dollars? William Albert says Jay doesn't 601 00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:49.159 love Christ. That's all they have is this piety signaling right, 602 00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:52.880 That's what they have. Sam said Jay is racist and 603 00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:58.639 says the N word. What's he talking about? So that's 604 00:42:58.639 --> 00:43:01.360 all they have is like just personal at time. I mean, 605 00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:03.400 I'm just going to their arguments, that's all they have. 606 00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:08.760 Thomas mc el hern two Canadian. I'm Protestant, but your 607 00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:11.199 knowledge and videos are great. Thanks man. Terry seventy seven. 608 00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:14.840 Can you suggest top five to ten books on the Papacy? 609 00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:22.320 Edward Ginny Papalism, Abgat's The Papacy, Michael Welton's Two Paths 610 00:43:24.159 --> 00:43:27.199 Papadacus Mayandorf Christian East in the Rise of the Papacy. 611 00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:36.400 I would start there. Demon cooked two dollars. Imagine being 612 00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:39.760 a cringey nerd crying about which church is the true church? 613 00:43:41.320 --> 00:43:43.559 Escape the matrix and get some money. So I guess 614 00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:49.199 we have a Tate fan Tristan five dollars. Andrew said, 615 00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:55.960 hey will host the debate. I don't know. I mean 616 00:43:57.360 --> 00:44:00.639 sounds like they just want to play them and say 617 00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:03.480 that I'm racist, Like this is like the weakest shit imaginable. Like, 618 00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:06.559 so I'm actually going to their streams to refute their positions, 619 00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:10.159 and they're calling you racist. There will be no debate. 620 00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:13.480 Jay has made his point. Sam crashed out on his 621 00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:15.719 friend and then he blasphemed God and made fun of 622 00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:18.639 the divine energies. I mean, it's just weird, dude. I 623 00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:22.880 don't know what the like, what the point of the 624 00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:23.960 energies thing is here. 625 00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:28.760 We're gonna call you out. We're gonna get you. Don't 626 00:44:28.760 --> 00:44:32.559 worry about it now, girl, get some more energies. 627 00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:33.360 Maybe will help you. 628 00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:39.719 Go get more energies. Maybe they'll help you out. I mean, 629 00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:42.039 does he not realize it's the New Testament teaching? 630 00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:42.559 I don't know. 631 00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:49.320 You himself. And then if he viewed himself in this manner, 632 00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:53.239 where was the uproar on the side of those that 633 00:44:53.320 --> 00:44:56.679 accepted his tomb And the other thing, as well, as 634 00:44:56.679 --> 00:44:58.960 we know very well, is that Pope Saint Leo the 635 00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:03.559 greats Tone was essentially saying the same thing as Cyril 636 00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:06.880 was saying in as. 637 00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:09.360 In his Yeah, but you're leaving out the point that 638 00:45:09.400 --> 00:45:12.400 they investigated the tone to see if it was what 639 00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:15.559 measured up to Cyril's teaching, so they didn't mention. 640 00:45:15.400 --> 00:45:19.400 It christological position. So then when we see that, we 641 00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:22.840 realized that Pope Saint Leo the Great was in line 642 00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:27.159 with the great Christological teachings, and we realized how much 643 00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:32.039 the teachings that Calca impacted. Because let me be very 644 00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:35.280 clear with you, today you can listen to a Protestant 645 00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:39.599 individual talking about Christology. 646 00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:43.480 Now let's point out the absurdity of William Albrecks, because 647 00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:47.239 I'm pretty sure William Albreck holds the position that, like 648 00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:53.480 Voice of Reason says, Ephesus was wrong in condemning Nestorius. 649 00:45:53.800 --> 00:45:56.760 Doesn't he say this? I think he does, right, But 650 00:45:56.920 --> 00:45:59.079 let me show you how stupid this position is right here. 651 00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:04.280 So I'll play your Voice of Reason saying this. And 652 00:46:04.280 --> 00:46:05.840 I don't know where they get this, like maybe they 653 00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:10.559 get it from Jimmy Aikin, because I know Akin says this. 654 00:46:12.159 --> 00:46:14.320 But I'm gonna show you how dumb this is. Right 655 00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:15.679 here's a Voice of Reasons saying this. 656 00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:21.199 Documents set up being used are uh seruitous. So the 657 00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:24.280 church isn't protected in matters of fact, The church is 658 00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:28.239 only protected only infallible and matters of morals, in the 659 00:46:28.280 --> 00:46:31.679 same way that when the Council of Emphasis condemned the 660 00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:34.760 stories is irritated. We don't know looking back that the 661 00:46:34.800 --> 00:46:37.320 council was actually in the correct It turns out that 662 00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:40.519 the story is wasn't in a story, but the council 663 00:46:40.599 --> 00:46:44.639 is still condemned the us as an Astorian documents up 664 00:46:44.679 --> 00:46:45.320 being used. 665 00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:51.000 So notice he's made up an absurd distinction between councils 666 00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:54.239 getting the dogma's right and missing and airing in matters 667 00:46:54.239 --> 00:46:56.480 of fact. Let's see how that actually works with the 668 00:46:56.519 --> 00:46:58.480 anathemas of ephesis. 669 00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:03.159 So it isn't protected matters fact. The church is only 670 00:47:03.239 --> 00:47:07.519 protected only infallible in morals in the same way that. 671 00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:10.559 Is going to become. So does he think that the 672 00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:14.800 condemnation and the anathemas against Nestorias aren't faith in morals? 673 00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:17.599 That sounds stupid. This position is right because when I 674 00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:20.960 go to the anathemas, the twelve anathemas right here, like, 675 00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:23.360 does he think that this is not faith and morals 676 00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:25.519 they're just airing in fact? Does he not realize that 677 00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:29.199 all the anathemas are about the dual subject position of Nestorius, 678 00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:35.800 and they're all from Cyril and his theology right, because Cyril, 679 00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:41.679 for example, argues from the Eucharist against uh Nesaurius. So 680 00:47:41.719 --> 00:47:44.440 that would mean all of these arguments weren't just matters 681 00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:48.360 of fact that we're wrong, they were also theologically wrong 682 00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:53.280 because Cyril didn't need to make Eucharistic arguments against Nastorias. 683 00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:56.599 That's how stupid this is. Right when it talks about 684 00:47:56.639 --> 00:48:01.239 the life giving flesh. Right, if anyone does not confess 685 00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:03.440 that the flesh of the Lord is life giving and 686 00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:07.760 belongs to the Word of God the Father, that's talking 687 00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:10.320 about the Eucharist, right. If you read Cyril the two 688 00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:14.039 Letters to sicx senses, Cyril talks about the Eucharist giving 689 00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:18.440 us and being a life giving thing, and he also 690 00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:23.559 teaches the energies doctrine right explicitly, so he doesn't even 691 00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:32.440 understand that denying ephesis condemnation of Astorias doesn't just preserve 692 00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:37.679 the teaching of dogma and not fact in the council 693 00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:40.840 some arbitrary thing he made up. It actually undoes the 694 00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:45.840 entire argumentation of the anathemas because Cyril didn't then correctly 695 00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:49.760 understand Nestorious position and all the anathemas. That's how stupid 696 00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:54.320 this is. And by the way, I'm pretty sure Albrecht 697 00:48:54.360 --> 00:48:59.119 holds that position that the Nestorians aren't really Nestorians all 698 00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:01.920 the way. I think Shamun does too, which is just idiotic. 699 00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:06.079 They don't even know what the anathemas are about. They're 700 00:49:06.159 --> 00:49:10.599 Cyril's theology against Nastorius's theology. So if it's wrong, then 701 00:49:10.639 --> 00:49:14.320 you deny Ephesus. And he just said Chalcedon lines up 702 00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:16.480 with ephesis. Yeah, but you think emphasis made a mistake, 703 00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:20.199 dun't he look at the wide ranging. 704 00:49:19.960 --> 00:49:23.559 Effect it's had. But then look at the claims Pope 705 00:49:23.559 --> 00:49:25.920 Saint Lee of the Great and made for himself. Yeah, 706 00:49:25.960 --> 00:49:28.840 he clearly viewed a lot of He viewed the power 707 00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:32.400 of those keys is being given to the successor Saint. 708 00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:34.960 Peter, and he thought that he exercised them in a 709 00:49:35.079 --> 00:49:38.920 unique way. Not that he wouldn't say that other bishops, 710 00:49:40.119 --> 00:49:42.639 you know, aren't successors to Saint Peter. He I think 711 00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:44.280 he would, But that. 712 00:49:44.360 --> 00:49:49.000 Isn't They are accusing you of calling Sam a bald inward. 713 00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:53.119 I've never done that. William has a fake account calling 714 00:49:53.159 --> 00:50:02.840 you racial slurs. I mean, that's bizarre. Sue them. These 715 00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:06.119 are just mentally ill people. Man, Me and Eugene five dollars. 716 00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:11.199 The Black delegation did not give Shamoun a pass as 717 00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:13.480 there's goes two dollars, you know, Father Damien Quilt, I 718 00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:20.199 do not everyone is going to the Lake of Lava. 719 00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:23.440 The moon landings are not are real or they are fake. 720 00:50:24.880 --> 00:50:27.000 I do not like takes. This is a matrix attack. 721 00:50:27.079 --> 00:50:35.159 Oh that doesn't make any sense. So Samuel Joseph, imagine 722 00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:40.480 if you had joined Sam's petty little stream and just 723 00:50:40.519 --> 00:50:43.719 said nothing and said, man, I'm sweepy. I gotta go 724 00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:49.800 to sweet Sam and Willow are live right now. This 725 00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:52.199 is a debate for the boys. I will moderate Josh 726 00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:56.320 Jehoshah fat Z five dollars. I want to thank you 727 00:50:56.360 --> 00:50:58.039 for your content. I going to Orthodox Church for the 728 00:50:58.079 --> 00:51:01.800 first time. I have yet to find anything false about Orthodox. 729 00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:09.000 He started off as a dispensationalist. Now I'm here make 730 00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:17.000 sure I'm hitting all the super juds. 731 00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:17.840 Mean that he wouldn't claim a unique version of papal 732 00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:19.480 succession for the Bishop of. 733 00:51:19.519 --> 00:51:22.239 Rome, and I think, Michael, that point is the number 734 00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:25.199 one the one we have to focus on, because what 735 00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:29.639 I hear very often in popular apologetics is oh, well, 736 00:51:29.719 --> 00:51:31.679 Peter is the only one that got the keys, so 737 00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:35.159 of course the pope has a special role. Then they 738 00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:36.880 failed to realize. 739 00:51:41.599 --> 00:51:55.960 So uh, I think if I if I hop on there, 740 00:51:56.119 --> 00:52:01.320 they're amazable immediately gonna lose it, right, So I don't 741 00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:10.800 trust them to Like I'm thinking about it, I don't know. 742 00:52:10.840 --> 00:52:13.639 I understand what you're saying about a fake, fake account 743 00:52:14.480 --> 00:52:16.880 calling people the ND word that I don't. That doesn't 744 00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:21.440 make any sense. What does that mean? He's fighting a 745 00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:24.880 fake Jaydier account? Oh you mean they're like having a 746 00:52:24.920 --> 00:52:28.480 fake debate. So it's for them, it's just like a 747 00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:34.679 clown show. I don't understand. What's they're having a fake debate? 748 00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:43.039 What are you talking about supporting Israel? Does he make 749 00:52:43.079 --> 00:52:48.599 any sense? I'm going to debate a post prophet? What 750 00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:49.239 does that mean? 751 00:52:55.960 --> 00:52:56.079 So? 752 00:52:56.639 --> 00:53:06.000 Where is their stream? Let's see on on Skype? Let 753 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:33.800 me see if I can get on Skype. Let me 754 00:53:34.239 --> 00:53:35.400 find the profile here. 755 00:53:35.480 --> 00:55:27.519 Let's see just one second the five games. 756 00:56:27.239 --> 00:56:29.119 I'm calling it a skype. 757 00:56:56.559 --> 00:56:57.159 No answer. 758 00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:10.960 The easiest way to do this would be for them 759 00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:14.199 to answer on the phone, and then we can have 760 00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:19.760 this today that way. It's very simple. But I'm going 761 00:57:19.800 --> 00:57:21.960 to stick to the doctrines. So I don't know why 762 00:57:22.039 --> 00:57:24.760 he I mean, they want they want me to hop on. 763 00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:26.719 Let's do it. I'm not going to end my stream 764 00:57:26.760 --> 00:57:31.360 to go to their stream. We can both have this 765 00:57:31.400 --> 00:57:39.519 discussion right here. Oh wait a minute. It has to 766 00:57:39.519 --> 00:57:41.639 be on a neutral platform. I thought they told me 767 00:57:41.679 --> 00:57:46.199 to just come to their stream. I mean this is 768 00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:56.039 a neutral platform. Okay, so come to my stream. I 769 00:57:56.079 --> 00:57:58.559 call in to his stream on his sky But now 770 00:57:58.559 --> 00:58:09.119 it's now it has to be on a neutral platform. 771 00:58:09.239 --> 00:58:11.840 I'm gonna call one more time. Let's do it. I'm 772 00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:15.239 calling in right now. Would be really easy. Let's do it. 773 00:58:32.519 --> 00:58:34.559 All he's got to do is have the discussion right now, 774 00:58:54.760 --> 00:58:59.960 so you won't answer. I'm not gonna I'm not leaving 775 00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:02.920 my stream to go to his stream when we could 776 00:59:02.960 --> 00:59:05.119 do it this way and it would be both of 777 00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:08.920 us having. He can continue streaming, I can continue streaming. 778 00:59:09.519 --> 00:59:13.639 I can't continue streaming if I go to his stream yard. 779 00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:21.920 Or he can just send me a stream yardard link in. 780 00:59:23.119 --> 00:59:29.639 He can send me the stream yard link in Skype. 781 00:59:34.039 --> 00:59:39.800 Send me the link here here. I can continue streaming. 782 00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:58.239 Send me the link here. See, like I told you, 783 00:59:58.880 --> 01:00:02.559 the whole reason that he went on this collapse mode, 784 01:00:04.119 --> 01:00:08.039 it was because he doesn't want to actually have that debate. 785 01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:13.360 He's always saying he wants to be teachable and corrected, 786 01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:18.639 and so I the whole thing is because I invited 787 01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:22.559 him and his handler to come discuss on my channel 788 01:00:22.599 --> 01:00:30.679 with time responses, and the solution would be send me 789 01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:33.519 the link and we can stream it at the same time. 790 01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:38.480 So all he's got to do is send me the 791 01:00:38.519 --> 01:00:40.440 Link'll y'all, let's do with this. I don't want to 792 01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:43.920 stop streaming. I'm not that way. He can have his stream, 793 01:00:44.039 --> 01:00:45.840 I can have my stream, and we can both talk 794 01:00:45.880 --> 01:00:49.760 on a device. You see. So you notice he won't 795 01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:52.559 answer the phone. They told me to come to his stream. 796 01:00:52.639 --> 01:00:56.679 I'm doing it, and he won't answer the phone. He 797 01:00:56.719 --> 01:00:58.800 calls you a cult leader while he was looking at 798 01:00:58.840 --> 01:01:01.559 memes about you. Yeah, he won't debate the issues. So 799 01:01:01.719 --> 01:01:04.719 look here you have it. Everybody can see Sam Shimun 800 01:01:04.760 --> 01:01:07.400 doesn't want to actually debate the issues when that's what 801 01:01:07.480 --> 01:01:12.440 I'm bringing up, and he would rather play mean games 802 01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:15.719 and like make fun of people or whatever whatever with me. 803 01:01:16.360 --> 01:01:19.320 So you can't defend these issues, like I'm sorry that 804 01:01:19.360 --> 01:01:21.519 you had a meltdown over me just simply asking you 805 01:01:21.559 --> 01:01:32.159 to come and have a conversation about it. He says, 806 01:01:32.199 --> 01:01:34.760 you're an ortho slut and you want join I'm trying 807 01:01:34.800 --> 01:01:38.199 to join his stream right here. I called three times, 808 01:01:38.599 --> 01:01:45.000 send me the link, and he's not answering because he 809 01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:51.039 knows he doesn't want to have this actual debate. If 810 01:01:51.039 --> 01:01:54.079 he wants to go on the Crucible, we can go 811 01:01:54.119 --> 01:02:12.400 have a debate on the Crucible right now. How's that 812 01:02:14.800 --> 01:02:24.039 go to Crucible? Then it would be a neutral platform 813 01:02:24.760 --> 01:02:26.880 if we both streamed it from our phone. So if 814 01:02:26.880 --> 01:02:28.760 he wants to leave, he wants to boot me, he 815 01:02:28.800 --> 01:02:32.079 can do that. I'm still streaming. I don't have to 816 01:02:32.119 --> 01:02:35.280 go to his stream. He doesn't have to go to mine. 817 01:02:35.679 --> 01:02:39.320 Very simple, simple solution, or we'll go to the Crucible. 818 01:02:42.079 --> 01:02:43.840 I guarantee you he doesn't want to debate me on 819 01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:46.880 the Crucible right now. I guarantee you won't. He won't 820 01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:53.760 do it. They said you called in on stream yard. 821 01:02:53.800 --> 01:02:56.039 I didn't call on stream yard. I called right here. 822 01:02:58.639 --> 01:03:01.800 They said you were sending message. I'm not on stream yard. 823 01:03:01.880 --> 01:03:06.360 They don't I don't have the stream yard link. There's 824 01:03:06.440 --> 01:03:10.440 me calling him three times on Skype that Skype send 825 01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:16.519 me the link here. I don't have the link inverted 826 01:03:16.519 --> 01:03:19.760 big toe Jay is one of percent Sigma Energy orb. 827 01:03:21.719 --> 01:03:23.679 They're acting like you went to the live chat and 828 01:03:23.719 --> 01:03:25.960 called him a bad word. That's not me, man, How 829 01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:28.320 am I doing that when I'm on here? Is he 830 01:03:28.400 --> 01:03:31.559 that stupid? He falls for any profile that has like 831 01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:43.599 it's not me, dummy, I did en joined his live stream. 832 01:03:43.639 --> 01:03:45.960 Sam is saying that you posted in his back channel. 833 01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:48.320 I don't have his back channel. I am on Skype. 834 01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:53.800 That's not me, dummies. Do you know what Skype sounds like? 835 01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:08.519 And to mind two dollars, Protestants need to take a 836 01:04:08.519 --> 01:04:11.280 back seat. I'm watching a schism in real time. This 837 01:04:11.400 --> 01:04:14.239 is not a schism because there's only one church and 838 01:04:14.519 --> 01:04:18.480 it's not the made up Apostolic churches that he has 839 01:04:18.519 --> 01:04:23.400 in his head. I don't like your Sam because you 840 01:04:23.480 --> 01:04:30.079 bass Protestants. However, Sam is acting like an old cringe vagina. 841 01:04:30.639 --> 01:04:34.679 He said that he won't answer because you only want 842 01:04:34.679 --> 01:04:38.760 to talk. Now that William left his stream, tell him 843 01:04:38.760 --> 01:04:40.920 and William to go onto the crucible. Let's do it 844 01:04:40.960 --> 01:04:57.239 right now. Bring William to the crucible. Now, bring William 845 01:04:57.280 --> 01:05:02.039 to the Crucible now, So every excuse he's making, I'm 846 01:05:02.039 --> 01:05:05.559 giving him a way out. He won't do it one 847 01:05:05.599 --> 01:05:10.000 to one on the freaking phone. He won't do it 848 01:05:10.039 --> 01:05:12.960 one to one on the phone on stream yard. He 849 01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:16.039 won't do it one to one on the Crucible. Okay, 850 01:05:16.079 --> 01:05:18.079 bring William to the Crucible. I'll debate you both. I'm 851 01:05:18.119 --> 01:05:31.400 not at all worried about this issue. It's like Sam 852 01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:33.960 has resorted now to only calling you slurs. Well that's 853 01:05:34.000 --> 01:05:36.039 because he didn't want a debate to begin with. He 854 01:05:36.079 --> 01:05:39.880 never wanted a debate. He just wanted a spurgout because 855 01:05:40.519 --> 01:05:44.000 he can't actually defend these positions. So again, tell him 856 01:05:44.360 --> 01:05:49.960 and all brect they can debate me, me versus them 857 01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:59.480 two on the crucible. So all he has is nasty talk. 858 01:05:59.559 --> 01:06:01.920 There you go, oh, like, this is the guy that 859 01:06:02.880 --> 01:06:06.559 you want to go with if you're a Roman Catholic 860 01:06:07.960 --> 01:06:09.639 And this is the fruits of Rome. Man, this is 861 01:06:09.679 --> 01:06:12.280 what you guys get with Roman Catholicism. Is this stuff 862 01:06:24.119 --> 01:06:27.840 I want to remind you, this is he He thinks 863 01:06:27.880 --> 01:06:30.880 the energies of God, the uncreated energies, are something that 864 01:06:30.920 --> 01:06:33.840 you just joke about. He doesn't even know that they're 865 01:06:34.719 --> 01:06:36.119 the basis for the Theophanies. 866 01:06:38.760 --> 01:06:40.639 We're gonna call you out. We're gonna get you. Don't 867 01:06:40.639 --> 01:06:44.440 worry about it now, girl, get some more energies. 868 01:06:44.559 --> 01:06:51.280 Maybe will help you you. 869 01:06:55.159 --> 01:06:57.000 Like I said, thanks for the received queer bait. 870 01:06:57.039 --> 01:06:58.639 I'm gonna show them who ran from William. 871 01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:00.039 Damn gar. 872 01:07:02.840 --> 01:07:05.199 Yeah, I'm running from William. I'm literally telling them to 873 01:07:05.239 --> 01:07:15.000 go to the crucible right now. All right, let's get 874 01:07:15.039 --> 01:07:18.039 back to this. Since this is they're not gonna He's 875 01:07:18.079 --> 01:07:20.599 not gonna do it. 876 01:07:19.360 --> 01:07:22.760 That the language lends itself to the fact that we 877 01:07:22.920 --> 01:07:27.159 recognize that the keys were received by the other bishops 878 01:07:27.159 --> 01:07:30.159 as well by the other apostles, but Saint Peter, in 879 01:07:30.199 --> 01:07:33.320 a very special way received them. And how are they 880 01:07:33.360 --> 01:07:35.679 able to utilize those as well when they are in 881 01:07:36.159 --> 01:07:40.920 union with the pope, with Saint Peter, the successor of 882 01:07:40.920 --> 01:07:43.360 Saint Peter. I think that that's the one area where 883 01:07:43.480 --> 01:07:44.239 they get tripped up. 884 01:07:44.719 --> 01:07:47.119 I think so, And I'm glad you brought up this point, 885 01:07:47.119 --> 01:07:50.119 because it is true that the other apostles received the 886 01:07:50.119 --> 01:07:53.000 case of kingdom as well. Sometimes I think we overseail 887 01:07:53.039 --> 01:07:55.920 our position by saying that only Peter received. 888 01:07:56.039 --> 01:07:56.119 No. 889 01:07:56.480 --> 01:07:58.719 Yeah, the rest of the apostles also received the case 890 01:07:58.760 --> 01:08:00.880 of the kingdom. But that does mean that we can't 891 01:08:00.960 --> 01:08:03.559 say that Peter received them in a unique way, no doubt, 892 01:08:03.719 --> 01:08:06.480 or that we could maybe speak about the apostles receiving 893 01:08:06.519 --> 01:08:07.880 the keys of the Kingdom through Peter. 894 01:08:12.480 --> 01:08:15.000 They want to talk about the biblical case for the papacy. 895 01:08:15.559 --> 01:08:19.239 In the Bible, Jesus breathes on all the apostles. It 896 01:08:19.279 --> 01:08:22.319 doesn't come on Peter first and then to the apostles 897 01:08:22.560 --> 01:08:29.279 at Pentecost. The Holy Spirit comes down on all of them. 898 01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:31.399 It doesn't go to Peter and then Peter give the 899 01:08:31.399 --> 01:08:34.279 Holy Spirit to the rest of the apostles at Pentecost. 900 01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:36.600 I'll look at that he ran away, so he had 901 01:08:36.640 --> 01:08:40.800 the opportunity to come on to the crucible. Rachel says, 902 01:08:40.800 --> 01:08:44.359 for five dollars, the crucible is on standby, ready and waiting. 903 01:08:44.399 --> 01:08:49.920 If Sam accepts. I sent him multiple calls and multiple opportunities. 904 01:08:54.479 --> 01:08:57.039 I called it. We could have had that. There's no 905 01:08:57.119 --> 01:09:00.760 reason not to have it multi streaming at the same time. Right, 906 01:09:04.600 --> 01:09:08.239 All he has to do is hop on and he 907 01:09:08.279 --> 01:09:10.279 thinks I'm over there like watching his stream, like, oh, 908 01:09:10.319 --> 01:09:12.600 I'm gonna wait until I'm gonna wait until William leaves, 909 01:09:12.600 --> 01:09:15.800 and then I'll call him. Dude, you and William can 910 01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:17.520 go on the Crucible and we'll do it right now. 911 01:09:20.239 --> 01:09:28.840 Sam just ran away. Well, what did you expect? All 912 01:09:28.840 --> 01:09:31.279 he wanted to do was bitch and wine and lose it. 913 01:09:31.680 --> 01:09:33.760 None of them want to talk about the actual issues. 914 01:09:34.039 --> 01:09:37.800 That's it. That's all they want to do as well. 915 01:09:37.840 --> 01:09:41.359 And I think that language there is probably the clearest 916 01:09:41.680 --> 01:09:44.880 if we emphasize that. But the other thing that people 917 01:09:45.439 --> 01:09:48.720 they get tripped up on Michael is the fact that they'll. 918 01:09:48.479 --> 01:09:51.199 Say, Okay, wait, he brought William back and into the stream. 919 01:09:52.439 --> 01:09:55.199 I sat there calling him and asking him to do it. 920 01:09:55.279 --> 01:09:59.840 That's so ridiculous. I mean, do you have a bed time? 921 01:10:00.119 --> 01:10:00.199 Like? 922 01:10:00.840 --> 01:10:03.960 Did you have a coof you? Like, I'm awake. Let's 923 01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:06.439 go to the Crucible. I'll just fire up some more coffee, 924 01:10:06.520 --> 01:10:07.800 let's debate all night, let's do it. 925 01:10:07.880 --> 01:10:11.319 Apostles receive the Well, then why do we need why 926 01:10:11.359 --> 01:10:13.079 do we need to Saint Peter? You need to see 927 01:10:13.119 --> 01:10:16.520 Peter because they were able to utilize them by being 928 01:10:16.560 --> 01:10:19.319 in union with the head of. 929 01:10:19.199 --> 01:10:21.720 The Why do we need a Saint Peter? Let's hear 930 01:10:21.760 --> 01:10:25.279 this brilliant response again. Why do we need a Saint Peter? 931 01:10:25.760 --> 01:10:28.800 Why do we need to Saint Peter. You need to 932 01:10:28.800 --> 01:10:32.159 see Peter because they were able to utilize them by 933 01:10:32.199 --> 01:10:33.760 being in union with the head. 934 01:10:34.680 --> 01:10:37.000 They were able to utilize them by being in union 935 01:10:37.039 --> 01:10:40.199 with the head. You need a Saint Peter because they 936 01:10:40.199 --> 01:10:42.399 were able to utilize them by being in union with 937 01:10:42.479 --> 01:10:48.039 the head. So a pragmatic argument that doesn't tell me 938 01:10:48.079 --> 01:10:51.119 that Vatican One is in the text. It doesn't actually 939 01:10:51.119 --> 01:10:53.479 tell me in the text that Peter is the head. 940 01:10:54.279 --> 01:10:57.319 We in the Orthodox Church call him Corphaeus, the mouthpiece 941 01:10:57.359 --> 01:11:04.039 of the apostles, but the single unilateral head. Where was 942 01:11:04.079 --> 01:11:06.319 that in anything that we've seen so far. We've seen 943 01:11:06.359 --> 01:11:12.159 a reference to Leo, we've seen a admission that you 944 01:11:12.199 --> 01:11:17.720 can't just use catchphrases. I've not yet heard an actual 945 01:11:17.840 --> 01:11:20.880 argument for the papacy yet. So let's see when we 946 01:11:20.920 --> 01:11:26.199 get that Sam got jay diarrhea. Wendy Torretz. The Muslims 947 01:11:26.239 --> 01:11:30.079 are having a field day with Sam manifesting. I mean, 948 01:11:31.640 --> 01:11:36.319 all of this is ridiculous because I sent him one 949 01:11:36.399 --> 01:11:39.600 message at the beginning of the day when he was 950 01:11:39.640 --> 01:11:43.279 doing his stream asking him if him and William want 951 01:11:43.319 --> 01:11:46.159 to come and have a timed response on my channel, 952 01:11:47.079 --> 01:11:49.319 and he just lost it for he had a total 953 01:11:49.359 --> 01:11:55.600 meltdown over nothing and it's just crazy. And then he 954 01:11:55.640 --> 01:11:58.359 goes into like mocking the divine energies. It's just crazy, man, 955 01:11:58.359 --> 01:12:02.399 it's weird. Jay, here's two dollars. You did it for 956 01:12:02.439 --> 01:12:09.600 the chat. You're a g makeing sure I didn't miss 957 01:12:09.600 --> 01:12:14.479 super chats. Let me let make it back anyway. So 958 01:12:14.520 --> 01:12:16.560 we're having a fun like again, let's get back to this. 959 01:12:16.680 --> 01:12:19.840 Because they're like, the way they're gonna do this, they're 960 01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:21.920 gonna play this is that they're gonna make all this smoke. 961 01:12:22.279 --> 01:12:24.479 They're gonna make all this drama. They're gonna whine and bitch. 962 01:12:24.520 --> 01:12:27.880 They're not gonna talk about the actual issues. And they're 963 01:12:27.880 --> 01:12:29.720 not gonna they do. That's the last thing they wanted 964 01:12:29.800 --> 01:12:31.680 to actually to be the issues, or else they would 965 01:12:31.720 --> 01:12:33.560 just hop on the crucible. We can we can sell 966 01:12:33.600 --> 01:12:36.399 it right now. We can hop on the crucible. We 967 01:12:36.399 --> 01:12:40.119 can pound it out through the entire night what the 968 01:12:40.199 --> 01:12:46.760 issues are. But I don't know, maybe leather Daddy here 969 01:12:46.880 --> 01:12:49.760 has got to go pound it out some other way. 970 01:12:49.800 --> 01:12:52.359 I don't know of the apostles of the band of 971 01:12:52.399 --> 01:12:55.079 the Apostles, that being Saint Peter. I think they tend 972 01:12:55.079 --> 01:12:56.520 to forget that, and the fact. 973 01:12:56.319 --> 01:13:00.960 That, well, you know, the officers bishop, well continue, We're 974 01:13:00.960 --> 01:13:04.159 told directly next chapter one twenty when the office is 975 01:13:04.239 --> 01:13:06.600 desolate of the bishop, it uses the Greek. 976 01:13:06.359 --> 01:13:09.399 Episcopos or episcopy. I forget the exact Greek word there, 977 01:13:09.880 --> 01:13:15.840 that will be fulfilled. He'll be filled. Yeah, Thus bishops continue, 978 01:13:16.520 --> 01:13:18.800 and we realize that that's very clear. 979 01:13:18.880 --> 01:13:22.880 For Sam says that you have a lisp. I'm pretty 980 01:13:22.880 --> 01:13:25.760 sure his leather daddy buddy has them the lisp of 981 01:13:25.800 --> 01:13:28.439 all lisps, and more of a lisp than James White. 982 01:13:28.720 --> 01:13:31.079 I don't have a lisp, by the way, So, uh, 983 01:13:31.479 --> 01:13:35.479 Sam is copying my James White joke, which is funny. 984 01:13:36.000 --> 01:13:37.680 Come up with your own jokes, dude. 985 01:13:38.359 --> 01:13:42.239 Saint Peter, those that would follow him, and I've noticed 986 01:13:42.239 --> 01:13:45.760 a tend to really, whether it be Evangelical or Orthodox, 987 01:13:46.119 --> 01:13:47.319 tend and not understand. 988 01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:51.039 That, you know, for those that say, as you mentioned there, 989 01:13:51.159 --> 01:13:53.880 that okay, well, why do we need a Saint Peter, 990 01:13:53.960 --> 01:13:58.520 why do we need a head it? My thing is 991 01:13:58.640 --> 01:14:01.359 it's like saying why do you need a why do 992 01:14:01.359 --> 01:14:04.399 you need a head on the body? 993 01:14:05.600 --> 01:14:08.720 Again, In the Orthodox view, Christ is the head and 994 01:14:08.760 --> 01:14:11.319 he directly governs the church through the power of the 995 01:14:11.319 --> 01:14:15.000 Holy Spirit. So we don't need an Old Testament high 996 01:14:15.079 --> 01:14:19.039 priest earthly head because the Old Testament high priest office 997 01:14:19.479 --> 01:14:22.279 in the New Testament is explicitly referenced and fulfilled in 998 01:14:22.319 --> 01:14:26.279 the person of Christ. So Christ is quite literally the 999 01:14:26.479 --> 01:14:30.920 living head of the Church, and every bishop underneath Christ 1000 01:14:31.479 --> 01:14:35.279 is another little head of the church, you see. But 1001 01:14:35.399 --> 01:14:39.359 it doesn't follow from this analogy of head to body 1002 01:14:39.479 --> 01:14:43.640 that there has to be an Old Testament high priest head. 1003 01:14:43.880 --> 01:14:47.079 You see, when the high priest, as everyone knows via 1004 01:14:47.199 --> 01:14:50.399 Hebrews Hebrew seven, is fulfilled in the person and the 1005 01:14:50.439 --> 01:14:56.079 ascension of Christ. So the Roman Catholic position is actually 1006 01:14:56.199 --> 01:14:59.199 a lack of faith in the power of the Holy 1007 01:14:59.199 --> 01:15:02.039 Spirit to govern in the church. Now, an easy way 1008 01:15:02.039 --> 01:15:05.600 to refute this is it's Benedict the sixteenth that admitted 1009 01:15:06.479 --> 01:15:10.399 that the Orthodox Church has maintained the faith for the 1010 01:15:10.439 --> 01:15:16.600 last thousand years. It's a famous Benedict quote. Well, then 1011 01:15:16.720 --> 01:15:20.119 we don't need the papacy to maintain the faith, you see. 1012 01:15:20.600 --> 01:15:25.680 So the Orthodox confession that the Holy Spirit is the 1013 01:15:25.720 --> 01:15:29.520 governor and guiter of the Church. Thus we don't need 1014 01:15:29.640 --> 01:15:34.880 the physical, literal, high, priestly judaic head of the church 1015 01:15:35.880 --> 01:15:39.239 is proven by the admission of Benedict that the Orthodox 1016 01:15:39.319 --> 01:15:42.239 Church has maintained the faith four thousand years about the pope. 1017 01:15:42.840 --> 01:15:47.960 Body can't exist without a hey, it cannot, yes. 1018 01:15:46.960 --> 01:15:50.239 But Christ is the head. So this false analogy does 1019 01:15:50.279 --> 01:15:54.119 not prove that the Bishop of Rome is the vicar 1020 01:15:54.199 --> 01:15:56.479 of Christ on earth, the earthly head. It's just that's 1021 01:15:56.520 --> 01:16:01.000 the thing in question, and it's not been proved so far. 1022 01:16:01.079 --> 01:16:04.319 They've only really made a pragmatic argument the pope will 1023 01:16:04.319 --> 01:16:07.159 provide unity and he can be ahead. But these are 1024 01:16:07.159 --> 01:16:08.319 not good arguments so far. 1025 01:16:08.359 --> 01:16:10.479 It seems like there does have to be that center 1026 01:16:11.079 --> 01:16:14.279 of authority, the center of unity. Yet really even be 1027 01:16:14.279 --> 01:16:17.319 able to identify a particular communion, you have to have that. 1028 01:16:17.960 --> 01:16:22.520 So it seems that I don't know how if a 1029 01:16:22.680 --> 01:16:26.279 center head of authority and unity is needed to recognize 1030 01:16:26.319 --> 01:16:29.560 the church or to recognize that unity. How did any 1031 01:16:29.640 --> 01:16:32.520 Christians who converted in the first, second, and third century 1032 01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:36.720 who didn't have access to Rome know the faith. Did 1033 01:16:36.720 --> 01:16:39.119 they just go and say are you the church in 1034 01:16:39.159 --> 01:16:42.479 commune with Rome, then you must be the true church. 1035 01:16:44.640 --> 01:16:47.279 What if they didn't know anything about Rome? Like, do 1036 01:16:47.359 --> 01:16:50.319 they actually think that all of the churches in the first, second, 1037 01:16:50.359 --> 01:16:55.199 third century were catechizing people like Vatican One? And if 1038 01:16:55.199 --> 01:16:58.520 they weren't, then they didn't need to know about the 1039 01:16:58.560 --> 01:17:02.319 bishop bishopic of if they were converting in Jerusalem or 1040 01:17:02.319 --> 01:17:07.159 in Corinth or Ephesus or anywhere else. Do you see 1041 01:17:07.159 --> 01:17:11.520 the point when you read the early catechetical lectures or 1042 01:17:11.560 --> 01:17:14.239 when you read say, John Damascus is on the Orthodox faith? 1043 01:17:14.920 --> 01:17:18.479 Why does John Damascus, a doctor of the Catholic Church, 1044 01:17:18.880 --> 01:17:22.039 write an entire systematic theology with no reference to the 1045 01:17:22.079 --> 01:17:27.439 papist Here, Peter, he didn't recognize the obvious number one 1046 01:17:28.000 --> 01:17:30.760 rock center of the faith of the church when he 1047 01:17:30.800 --> 01:17:35.319 wrote an entire systematic theology or did he just simply 1048 01:17:35.399 --> 01:17:38.000 not have in his mind the Vatican One mindset? Like 1049 01:17:38.039 --> 01:17:39.520 these people do could. 1050 01:17:39.319 --> 01:17:42.600 Function without Ahead? Now, yeah, what people will say is, well, 1051 01:17:42.680 --> 01:17:46.920 Jesus is the head. What do you say, respondse, yeah, so. 1052 01:17:47.680 --> 01:17:51.760 Without a doubt, we recognize Christ. It's ahead, We recognize 1053 01:17:51.840 --> 01:17:53.079 Christ holds the key. 1054 01:17:53.960 --> 01:17:56.760 Nobody says, but yeah, the Holy Spirit doesn't really do 1055 01:17:56.920 --> 01:17:59.880 that good in governing the church. So we need the 1056 01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:05.439 the Questak. We need the ruler of all rulers. We 1057 01:18:05.520 --> 01:18:08.560 need the king of kings. 1058 01:18:08.399 --> 01:18:08.880 The Pope. 1059 01:18:09.800 --> 01:18:12.239 You think when you're king of kings, you think it's Jesus. No, No, 1060 01:18:12.560 --> 01:18:14.800 the Pope is the king of kings on earth. You see, 1061 01:18:15.119 --> 01:18:21.159 he has all temporal dominion and authority, and all kings 1062 01:18:22.279 --> 01:18:27.720 must submit and kiss his feet. The Pope alone, shall 1063 01:18:27.760 --> 01:18:30.840 all the princes of the world kiss his feet? Is 1064 01:18:30.840 --> 01:18:33.359 that what Jesus was setting up when he set up 1065 01:18:33.359 --> 01:18:36.279 a church, which, by the way, they reference Chalcidon. The 1066 01:18:36.359 --> 01:18:40.920 Canons of Chalcedon forbid any cleric from being a worldly 1067 01:18:41.000 --> 01:18:47.560 magistrate or a civil leader. No member of the clergy 1068 01:18:47.680 --> 01:18:52.279 can be a prince or a magistrate of the state 1069 01:18:52.439 --> 01:18:56.760 because the separation of powers dictatus pape is a rejection 1070 01:18:56.880 --> 01:19:12.239 of Chalcedon. Let's see Orthodox for nisis five dollars. It 1071 01:19:12.319 --> 01:19:14.880 is not freeful to speak with Sam. He was spitting, 1072 01:19:14.960 --> 01:19:20.399 he was calling Orthodox dogs. He found old Theoria articles 1073 01:19:20.439 --> 01:19:24.720 against Orthodox ethos. So now he's mad at Father. Hears 1074 01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:36.039 just losing it Sam Jordan and five dollars. Sam is 1075 01:19:36.119 --> 01:19:38.399 ending his stream. Now that the crucible people are offering 1076 01:19:38.399 --> 01:19:43.079 a platform that's neutral. Of course, Nicholas two dollars, I 1077 01:19:43.159 --> 01:19:45.960 just joined the stream. What's going on? I'm refuting the 1078 01:19:46.039 --> 01:19:52.520 Roman Catholic position of Sam and Albrick. Two dollars. Sam, 1079 01:19:52.560 --> 01:19:58.039 he won't call you. You're desperate for reviews. Yeah, I'm desperate 1080 01:19:58.039 --> 01:20:02.640 for views and them on two dollars. Protestants need to 1081 01:20:02.680 --> 01:20:06.199 take a back seat. I already read that. Let's see 1082 01:20:11.359 --> 01:20:13.680 Dre God the passport King ten dollars. This is a 1083 01:20:13.800 --> 01:20:16.640 rare currence where Muslims and Protestants are not part of 1084 01:20:16.680 --> 01:20:20.640 an insane clown show. Where's the cloud show? Other than 1085 01:20:20.680 --> 01:20:24.000 like I'm actually I'm responding to the actual arguments Gray 1086 01:20:24.039 --> 01:20:27.359 stream Jay, this is dedicated to the papacy and it's 1087 01:20:27.439 --> 01:20:29.560 long overdue. Well, I've actually done a whole bunch of 1088 01:20:30.640 --> 01:20:37.720 papacy streams, oaklock something sks and d two dollars. Sam 1089 01:20:37.720 --> 01:20:40.000 said nothing but foul discussing things about you and all 1090 01:20:40.039 --> 01:20:46.600 the Orthodox there you go, all because of one DM 1091 01:20:46.600 --> 01:20:49.600 that I'm asking him to come and have a friendly exchange. 1092 01:20:49.600 --> 01:20:52.800 That's it, that's it. That's what ignited all of this 1093 01:20:53.720 --> 01:20:58.159 because I disagreed with his take on Protestant and Catholic 1094 01:20:58.439 --> 01:21:06.840 models of the Trinity ISA eighty seven two dollars. Sam 1095 01:21:06.880 --> 01:21:13.760 Chamun was indefensible tonight. What a shame. Yeah, retro reister 1096 01:21:13.880 --> 01:21:16.439 gaming five a's Jay God bless you mate, love your 1097 01:21:16.479 --> 01:21:25.960 channel shivalib get so and so on to debate with you. 1098 01:21:28.399 --> 01:21:30.960 I don't think he wants to debate with me. This 1099 01:21:31.000 --> 01:21:32.880 is not Tolsch Schamun. It's about somebody else. I don't 1100 01:21:32.880 --> 01:21:36.840 think that guy's interested. But maybe we'll see Brent. Five dollars. 1101 01:21:37.039 --> 01:21:40.880 If anyone is manifesting anything, it is Sam Shimun Roman Catholics. 1102 01:21:40.920 --> 01:21:46.159 This is the fruit of your rotten church. This vindicates Orthodoxy. Unfortunately, 1103 01:21:46.279 --> 01:21:49.680 this is verty big too. Five dollars. Sam said that 1104 01:21:49.720 --> 01:21:51.800 you are a pure scum, you are the son of Satan. 1105 01:21:52.520 --> 01:21:53.119 You are. 1106 01:21:54.800 --> 01:22:01.720 Gay. I mean I'm married, he's not, so I don't 1107 01:22:01.840 --> 01:22:07.880 That doesn't make any sense. BLK and Sam and William 1108 01:22:07.920 --> 01:22:09.800 fell for a fake account and they thought it was 1109 01:22:09.840 --> 01:22:12.880 really you. This is one of the stupidest, our funniest 1110 01:22:12.880 --> 01:22:19.920 clips of the year, arguing. 1111 01:22:19.640 --> 01:22:19.840 That but. 1112 01:22:21.359 --> 01:22:25.560 Peter, Saint Peter is the vicarious rock that has got 1113 01:22:25.600 --> 01:22:30.319 to be recognized Number one that takes nothing away from Christ. 1114 01:22:30.439 --> 01:22:32.520 But the fact of the matter is, Michael, is that 1115 01:22:32.680 --> 01:22:36.800 Christ set up a visible church with a visible hierarchy 1116 01:22:37.159 --> 01:22:39.119 and invisible head. 1117 01:22:38.800 --> 01:22:41.760 And yeah, but none of that, that's a non sequitor. 1118 01:22:41.840 --> 01:22:46.159 So the thing in question is whether Peter is the 1119 01:22:46.199 --> 01:22:50.039 sole autocrat head of the church, and we haven't actually 1120 01:22:50.119 --> 01:22:54.760 heard a proof of that or a specific argument other 1121 01:22:54.920 --> 01:22:59.520 than practical appeals. Well, you need it for unity, but 1122 01:23:00.199 --> 01:23:03.039 where's the evidence of that biblically, where's the evidence of 1123 01:23:03.079 --> 01:23:06.399 that in the patristic sense, because we haven't had an 1124 01:23:06.399 --> 01:23:10.039 actual argument for that. All we've had is well, Leo 1125 01:23:10.159 --> 01:23:14.279 thought as Tom had authority, okay, but that's not ex cathedra, 1126 01:23:15.039 --> 01:23:17.279 and it was investigated to see if it was in 1127 01:23:17.279 --> 01:23:20.319 line with what Cyril taught. So we've not had much 1128 01:23:20.359 --> 01:23:21.319 substance yet. 1129 01:23:21.239 --> 01:23:24.720 When you kind of use that as a you know, 1130 01:23:25.000 --> 01:23:27.159 fallback and say, well, you know, Price is a leader. 1131 01:23:28.319 --> 01:23:31.920 We agree that the church has always agreed. But how 1132 01:23:32.039 --> 01:23:35.319 is the visible hierarchy mentioned in scripture? And it's very 1133 01:23:35.319 --> 01:23:37.920 clear how it is mentioned. We hearken in the Matthew 1134 01:23:38.000 --> 01:23:41.000 chapter sixteen all the time, but there are other pastes 1135 01:23:41.119 --> 01:23:43.840 Luke chapter twenty two, John. 1136 01:23:43.960 --> 01:23:47.920 Twenty Let's look at Luke twenty two. And let's see 1137 01:23:47.920 --> 01:23:51.640 if anywhere in Luke twenty two we find anything equivalent 1138 01:23:51.760 --> 01:23:58.640 to Vatican one, because it ain't there. So remember this 1139 01:23:58.760 --> 01:24:06.439 is proofs for the papacy from the premiere papists, leather 1140 01:24:06.520 --> 01:24:29.600 Daddy Albrecht. Here, let's see where all Brett goes with. 1141 01:24:29.680 --> 01:24:34.319 Us one Judge twenty one. And the language is very 1142 01:24:34.319 --> 01:24:37.159 strong there. Saint Peter's were literally told in the Greek 1143 01:24:37.199 --> 01:24:40.119 that he said, shepherd in a very special role. 1144 01:24:40.159 --> 01:24:41.039 What kind of shepherd? 1145 01:24:43.159 --> 01:24:49.239 All the apostles are called shepherds? Where is the special role? Right? 1146 01:24:49.399 --> 01:24:55.800 That's attributed to Vatican one's level of this? All right, 1147 01:24:55.800 --> 01:25:04.640 so let's see what do you say, John twenty one. 1148 01:25:05.840 --> 01:25:14.000 So we have the the denials of Peter, right, and 1149 01:25:14.039 --> 01:25:19.000 then Jesus is pointing out to Peter that even though 1150 01:25:19.079 --> 01:25:22.319 you denied me those three times, I am forgiving you, 1151 01:25:23.039 --> 01:25:25.960 and I am telling you and giving you this commission. 1152 01:25:27.680 --> 01:25:33.119 Feed my lands, feed my tend my sheep, feed my sheep. 1153 01:25:35.960 --> 01:25:39.920 Where in any of that which is a restitution, a 1154 01:25:40.079 --> 01:25:44.199 kind of redemption for Peter's three denials? Where in any 1155 01:25:44.239 --> 01:25:48.800 of that is the Vatican one claim that the Bishop 1156 01:25:48.840 --> 01:25:55.720 of Rome exercises universal, temporal and spiritual power autocratically over 1157 01:25:55.760 --> 01:26:03.880 the entire church. Where is that, Oh, because Jesus said, 1158 01:26:03.920 --> 01:26:07.159 ten my sheep. So you begin to see that the 1159 01:26:07.319 --> 01:26:13.800 entire presupposition of these people is to read into the 1160 01:26:13.840 --> 01:26:18.600 texts these bizarre, outlandish interpretations that have nothing to do 1161 01:26:18.680 --> 01:26:24.079 with what's in the text. That actually progresses too. Dictatus 1162 01:26:24.079 --> 01:26:27.079 Pope in ten ninety. You understand they have to defend 1163 01:26:27.079 --> 01:26:32.399 this because it's not just dictatas Pope. Unam simtem dogmatizes 1164 01:26:32.439 --> 01:26:41.439 the same thing. A couple centuries later. The Roman Church 1165 01:26:41.479 --> 01:26:45.399 is founded by God alone. The Roman pontiff alone is universal. 1166 01:26:45.920 --> 01:26:50.439 He alone can depose and reinstate all bishops. Totally different ecclesiology. 1167 01:26:50.479 --> 01:26:58.000 The first thousand years UH number nine. The pope alone, 1168 01:26:58.039 --> 01:27:00.760 of all the princes in the world, shows his feet. 1169 01:27:02.199 --> 01:27:04.239 The Pope's name is the only name in the world. 1170 01:27:04.960 --> 01:27:06.880 The papacy is the only name that can be spoken 1171 01:27:06.920 --> 01:27:18.239 in the churches the Roman Church. The papacy is judged 1172 01:27:18.239 --> 01:27:25.279 by no one and may be judged by no one. 1173 01:27:26.439 --> 01:27:29.760 So in ten ninety Dictatus Pape of Gregory the seventh 1174 01:27:30.840 --> 01:27:34.399 becomes the seeds for developing into unam sanctam in thirteen 1175 01:27:34.439 --> 01:27:36.680 oh two, which doesn't just say that you have to 1176 01:27:36.720 --> 01:27:38.920 be in communion with the Bishop Rome to be saved. 1177 01:27:39.279 --> 01:27:42.000 It says you must also believe in the full temper 1178 01:27:42.319 --> 01:27:45.279 temporal power and supremacy the Roman bishop to be saved 1179 01:27:45.319 --> 01:27:49.239 as well. And as we saw the Roman calogy church 1180 01:27:49.279 --> 01:27:52.319 doesn't teach that. Now, this is what these people are 1181 01:27:52.319 --> 01:27:59.319 defending from Jesus telling Peter, feed my sheep. You can't 1182 01:27:59.359 --> 01:28:05.960 make this up. So Jesus saying feed my sheep literally 1183 01:28:06.000 --> 01:28:09.079 is supposed to translate into a thousand years later. You 1184 01:28:09.159 --> 01:28:11.520 are the king of all the kings in the world. 1185 01:28:12.479 --> 01:28:20.880 You should have standing armies, as the Medici popes did. 1186 01:28:22.479 --> 01:28:23.920 It's ludicrous. 1187 01:28:24.960 --> 01:28:30.159 Over the flock. Yeah, So my comment would be that 1188 01:28:30.479 --> 01:28:35.239 we have got that chep, we have that business as lead, 1189 01:28:36.640 --> 01:28:38.960 and my hope would be that all of these other 1190 01:28:39.039 --> 01:28:41.000 churches have that as well. But in order to have 1191 01:28:41.039 --> 01:28:43.720 that they would have to become Catholic. Those people would 1192 01:28:43.760 --> 01:28:44.960 have to become Catholic. 1193 01:28:45.239 --> 01:28:48.199 Some people would say, but okay, you know, I understand 1194 01:28:48.199 --> 01:28:52.840 what you're saying. But it seems like Vatican One and 1195 01:28:52.920 --> 01:28:59.039 its language and claims about the pope, it just seems anachronistic, 1196 01:28:59.119 --> 01:29:02.079 they would claim. They would say that, look, this speaks 1197 01:29:02.119 --> 01:29:05.520 about an authority to the papacy that just did not 1198 01:29:05.760 --> 01:29:08.840 exist in the first millennium. What would you say to 1199 01:29:08.840 --> 01:29:11.680 those who would claim that this kind of authority doesn't 1200 01:29:11.680 --> 01:29:12.760 exist in the first millennium? 1201 01:29:12.840 --> 01:29:16.840 Yeah, exactly, you mean the argument. You mean the argument 1202 01:29:16.880 --> 01:29:21.520 that the papal document itself makes in eighty paragraph nineteen 1203 01:29:22.199 --> 01:29:24.760 appeals to the Bishop Rome from the East expressed the 1204 01:29:24.760 --> 01:29:26.520 community of the church, but the Bishop Rome did not 1205 01:29:26.680 --> 01:29:29.279 exercise canonical authority of the Church of the East. You're 1206 01:29:29.319 --> 01:29:33.640 talking about your papacies argument that this wasn't the case 1207 01:29:33.680 --> 01:29:36.119 that it's admitted. Is that what you're talking about. 1208 01:29:36.000 --> 01:29:39.920 One, even though it's very early on, you clearly have 1209 01:29:40.079 --> 01:29:43.279 seeds of that in Pope Rome, without a doubt, where 1210 01:29:43.319 --> 01:29:46.520 he's what he's talking when he's talking to the flock, 1211 01:29:46.880 --> 01:29:50.119 he's doing it in the authoritative manner. He clearly views 1212 01:29:50.199 --> 01:29:52.760 himself as that head of the church. 1213 01:29:53.000 --> 01:29:55.640 But no Clement of Rome, by the way, is no 1214 01:29:55.720 --> 01:29:58.920 longer even used by Roman Catholic apologists. And if you 1215 01:29:59.000 --> 01:30:02.680 read the the Sashensky book that just came out, there's 1216 01:30:02.720 --> 01:30:06.319 an entire chapter on Clement on this very point, and 1217 01:30:06.399 --> 01:30:08.960 even the Roman Catholic world has ceased from trying to 1218 01:30:09.079 --> 01:30:12.279 utilize Clement in that way. This is an older apologetic 1219 01:30:12.279 --> 01:30:14.960 approach that was popular maybe one hundred years ago, but 1220 01:30:15.079 --> 01:30:18.600 it's fallen out of use because it doesn't really prove 1221 01:30:18.840 --> 01:30:21.479 what the Roman Catholics wanted to prove. Right, So, if 1222 01:30:21.520 --> 01:30:24.199 Clement writes a letter and says to a church far 1223 01:30:24.239 --> 01:30:27.119 away that because he presides in love and he has 1224 01:30:27.119 --> 01:30:30.359 these recommendations, none of that has anything to do with 1225 01:30:30.720 --> 01:30:34.239 just like John twenty one, with the claims of vatican Ie. 1226 01:30:35.079 --> 01:30:39.239 And so this is just like the classic low tier. 1227 01:30:39.399 --> 01:30:43.760 It's like Catherine answers level quote mining that even Roman 1228 01:30:43.800 --> 01:30:47.880 Catholics don't use anymore. So again, Sashensky's chapter on Clement 1229 01:30:47.920 --> 01:30:48.439 disproves this. 1230 01:30:49.479 --> 01:30:52.159 We go beyond. It's very clear in the language of 1231 01:30:52.199 --> 01:30:54.600 seeing her in as that there is a certain model 1232 01:30:55.000 --> 01:30:57.399 that is set up in a certain way. So if 1233 01:30:57.439 --> 01:31:00.439 we look in early church history and we look at 1234 01:31:00.439 --> 01:31:02.880 the claims of some of these popes, for instance, I 1235 01:31:02.960 --> 01:31:06.680 brought up Pope Saint Pope Saint Leo the Great, and 1236 01:31:07.279 --> 01:31:12.079 we go onward. Even at classic example, read the language 1237 01:31:12.119 --> 01:31:14.279 of the second Council in Nicia. 1238 01:31:14.399 --> 01:31:18.520 There's no way, very strong, right, and that's added agumenical council. 1239 01:31:18.520 --> 01:31:20.920 That's this is very very strong. 1240 01:31:21.600 --> 01:31:24.800 Yeah, but it did they not realize that the Pentarchy 1241 01:31:24.840 --> 01:31:28.920 had already been accepted at Nicia two, like prior even 1242 01:31:28.920 --> 01:31:31.560 prior to Nicia too, the Pentarchy had already been accepted. 1243 01:31:32.239 --> 01:31:35.359 And flowery language, as we saw in the debate between 1244 01:31:35.520 --> 01:31:39.319 Ibara and Ubi, doesn't again doesn't get you anywhere because 1245 01:31:39.319 --> 01:31:42.600 the same flowery language is used of the emperor and 1246 01:31:42.640 --> 01:31:48.439 the empress. For example, the emperor is called the he 1247 01:31:48.520 --> 01:31:53.159 whom the gates of Hell cannot prevail against. Oh, so 1248 01:31:54.319 --> 01:31:57.079 does that mean that he's equivalent to Peter? So in 1249 01:31:57.159 --> 01:31:59.840 other words, it's a double standard. Right, The same argument 1250 01:31:59.840 --> 01:32:03.399 has brought forward when this was the point Luigi made 1251 01:32:04.399 --> 01:32:09.479 to Voice of Reason. Right, So it's a double standard. 1252 01:32:09.520 --> 01:32:11.720 So just because you see that flowery language like that, 1253 01:32:12.239 --> 01:32:14.600 they'll pick and choose and they'll say, well, when it's 1254 01:32:14.680 --> 01:32:17.359 used of the emperor, it doesn't count. But when it's 1255 01:32:17.439 --> 01:32:19.640 used to the Bishop Rome, that's the only time it counts. 1256 01:32:19.680 --> 01:32:21.600 That's a double standard. 1257 01:32:22.359 --> 01:32:25.640 Incredibly strong. So if we have that kind of language, 1258 01:32:26.000 --> 01:32:28.880 this is fort millennium. Uh, this is the first millennium. 1259 01:32:29.119 --> 01:32:31.920 And if we have that kind of language there, the 1260 01:32:32.039 --> 01:32:35.399 Church is agreeing upon that kind of language, then there 1261 01:32:35.479 --> 01:32:37.239 is a foundation. 1262 01:32:38.600 --> 01:32:42.840 Now it's a non sequitor. So because the first the 1263 01:32:42.880 --> 01:32:45.800 flowery language is there in some of these examples, which 1264 01:32:45.840 --> 01:32:50.039 is selectively chosen to ignore the flowery language that's said 1265 01:32:50.119 --> 01:32:52.560 identically of the emperor. By the way, I understand, I'm 1266 01:32:52.560 --> 01:32:56.520 not arguing that the emperor is the bastion of the 1267 01:32:56.560 --> 01:32:59.279 gates of Hell, right, I'm not arguing that the emperor 1268 01:33:00.199 --> 01:33:02.600 is what will keep the church from falling to the 1269 01:33:02.640 --> 01:33:04.680 gates of Hell. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying 1270 01:33:04.720 --> 01:33:08.800 the same phraseology is used of the Emperor, and the 1271 01:33:08.880 --> 01:33:12.720 Roman Catholics ignore it because it doesn't fit their model 1272 01:33:12.800 --> 01:33:15.760 and their usage, because they would then have to admit 1273 01:33:15.920 --> 01:33:19.359 that there's flowery language that's used a lot in those centuries. 1274 01:33:19.680 --> 01:33:22.119 Let me give you another example. If you read Basil's letters, 1275 01:33:23.760 --> 01:33:27.600 when he talks about how Rome was useless in the 1276 01:33:27.640 --> 01:33:31.439 Malitian Schism, when he refers to the Church of Antioch, 1277 01:33:31.960 --> 01:33:35.680 Basil says, Antioch the head of the church, the head 1278 01:33:35.720 --> 01:33:39.760 from which the body desires and seeks its knowledge and 1279 01:33:39.800 --> 01:33:43.880 it's whatever all this flowery language, nobody believes the Church 1280 01:33:43.920 --> 01:33:47.279 of Antioch is the head of the Church. You have 1281 01:33:47.359 --> 01:33:49.760 the same language in Pope Saint Gregory the Great where 1282 01:33:49.760 --> 01:33:53.800 he calls the See of Peter Rome, Alexandria and Antioch 1283 01:33:54.039 --> 01:33:56.840 as late as Pope Saint Gregory the Great. So that 1284 01:33:56.880 --> 01:33:59.239 doesn't fit their model though, you see, because they have 1285 01:33:59.279 --> 01:34:02.560 a selective usage where they pull out the quote that 1286 01:34:02.600 --> 01:34:07.479 fits the model, ignore the contrary evidence, not to mention 1287 01:34:07.600 --> 01:34:12.000 the contradictions against the Vatican One idea of indefectibility, like 1288 01:34:12.520 --> 01:34:16.479 popeias or a pope being deposed. They'll set that aside 1289 01:34:16.479 --> 01:34:21.600 for a minute. That's ignored because what's useful is the selective, 1290 01:34:22.000 --> 01:34:24.800 flowery language that fits the narrative of Vatican One being 1291 01:34:24.840 --> 01:34:26.960 read retroactively into these passages. 1292 01:34:29.079 --> 01:34:34.239 We love them and the orient Orthodoxy, and they're gonna say, hey, well, 1293 01:34:34.239 --> 01:34:36.359 we weren't there at and I see it too, so 1294 01:34:36.439 --> 01:34:39.199 what about us. So the way to answer that, in 1295 01:34:39.239 --> 01:34:43.960 my opinion, is to look at beforehand. Sure, and if 1296 01:34:44.000 --> 01:34:45.920 you look at beforehand, if you look at in the 1297 01:34:46.000 --> 01:34:49.199 Syriac fathers, they have strong language when they talk about 1298 01:34:49.239 --> 01:34:52.359 the papacy as well. And there's look, Michael, there's no 1299 01:34:52.439 --> 01:34:54.880 way around the language of the Bible. Yeah, it's very 1300 01:34:54.920 --> 01:34:57.319 clear the model that is laid out there, and that 1301 01:34:57.359 --> 01:35:00.439 model is at very clear of the papacy the way 1302 01:35:00.479 --> 01:35:01.840 the Captain Church points it up. 1303 01:35:02.000 --> 01:35:07.319 Now, come on, So far we've heard Matthew sixteen, we've 1304 01:35:07.359 --> 01:35:11.199 heard Luke twenty one about the Luke twenty two about 1305 01:35:11.239 --> 01:35:17.560 the denials, and John twenty one about feed my flock. 1306 01:35:18.359 --> 01:35:23.720 That's all we've heard. And he just says the papacy's clear. 1307 01:35:24.439 --> 01:35:28.880 You haven't demonstrated anything from Vatican one in the Bible, 1308 01:35:29.319 --> 01:35:31.439 nor have you demonstrated anything for Vatican one in the 1309 01:35:31.479 --> 01:35:34.439 Patristic text yet. And by the way, you've not addressed 1310 01:35:34.479 --> 01:35:35.600 any of the objections either. 1311 01:35:35.640 --> 01:35:38.640 By the way, nobody I mean, I mean. 1312 01:35:38.600 --> 01:35:43.600 Like Honorius, Virgilius, et cetera, which are classic problem texts 1313 01:35:43.600 --> 01:36:00.279 for the papists. And let me remind you of Ybarra mmh. 1314 01:36:01.439 --> 01:36:14.039 Let me see it definitely, So try to pull up. 1315 01:36:15.720 --> 01:36:21.079 I'm not sure if I'm logged in, I could say 1316 01:36:21.479 --> 01:36:25.319 what the hell was that? IM trying to find my clip. 1317 01:36:25.960 --> 01:36:31.439 Let's see if it's on X. See if we can 1318 01:36:31.479 --> 01:36:34.760 find it over here. You'll see why I'm pulling this up. 1319 01:37:20.239 --> 01:37:24.359 There's a clip I uploaded where Abara doesn't have an 1320 01:37:24.399 --> 01:37:30.359 answer and the freaking search on here is terrible. 1321 01:37:33.079 --> 01:37:45.439 It's on my TikTok. Let me just play it this way. 1322 01:37:46.159 --> 01:37:50.399 So we're gonna show from Ibarra, who's far better than 1323 01:37:50.399 --> 01:38:12.159 Albrecht at this point, how bad the augmentation is here. Okay, 1324 01:38:12.159 --> 01:38:13.840 here we go, who. 1325 01:38:13.840 --> 01:38:17.239 Never departed from the traditions of the fathers and directed 1326 01:38:17.279 --> 01:38:19.239 the Church of God in utter tranquility. 1327 01:38:20.319 --> 01:38:22.880 Do you think that's correct? Not literally? 1328 01:38:23.199 --> 01:38:23.399 Yeah? 1329 01:38:24.319 --> 01:38:26.159 Oh so wait a minute. So we have a quote, 1330 01:38:26.199 --> 01:38:31.279 a patristic quote that this certain situation, I can't remember 1331 01:38:31.279 --> 01:38:33.920 if it's talking about the emperor or what, but it's 1332 01:38:33.960 --> 01:38:37.279 saying that this bishopric or this in this situation, they 1333 01:38:37.760 --> 01:38:40.439 always kept to the faith and never departed. Right. So 1334 01:38:40.520 --> 01:38:44.079 this is the same language that's used in the ballet 1335 01:38:44.159 --> 01:38:44.720 or Bagatho. 1336 01:38:44.920 --> 01:38:45.079 Right. 1337 01:38:45.960 --> 01:38:48.560 So I understand that Ubi's making the argument to a 1338 01:38:48.640 --> 01:38:53.039 borrow that flowery language, even in your view, doesn't prove 1339 01:38:53.239 --> 01:38:57.479 the papacy, because you admit, when the flowery language of 1340 01:38:57.560 --> 01:38:59.800 never departing from the faith is used of the emperor 1341 01:38:59.880 --> 01:39:02.119 or of the other bishoprics, it doesn't count. 1342 01:39:02.439 --> 01:39:05.680 You hear that who never departed from the traditions of 1343 01:39:05.720 --> 01:39:09.119 the fathers and directed the Church of God in ultra tranquility. 1344 01:39:10.279 --> 01:39:11.239 Do you think that's correct? 1345 01:39:12.239 --> 01:39:16.199 Not literally? Oh, flower, language doesn't automatically prove it. Let's 1346 01:39:16.199 --> 01:39:20.920 see where this goes. It's not literally correct, but when 1347 01:39:20.960 --> 01:39:26.199 the papacy works for the Roman Catholic it's literally correct. 1348 01:39:27.159 --> 01:39:29.560 By the mid fifth century, how many popes have had 1349 01:39:29.800 --> 01:39:31.800 like heretical views. 1350 01:39:33.600 --> 01:39:37.079 Yeah, this is a hotly debated issue. So, I mean, 1351 01:39:37.119 --> 01:39:40.039 there's questions related to the pontificate of. 1352 01:39:40.000 --> 01:39:41.279 Liberius and Felix. 1353 01:39:43.119 --> 01:39:45.399 But you know there's there's both sides. 1354 01:39:45.479 --> 01:39:50.399 Yeah, Theodora. Oh so wait a minute, the papacy has 1355 01:39:50.439 --> 01:39:56.800 had heterodox people in its chair. What about that doctrine 1356 01:39:56.840 --> 01:40:01.359 called indefectibility. I'm pretty sure there was a promise of indefectibility. 1357 01:40:01.720 --> 01:40:06.000 That's part of the Vatican One mindset and ethos of 1358 01:40:06.039 --> 01:40:09.640 what the papacy is. Well, you understand the pope is 1359 01:40:09.760 --> 01:40:13.239 indefectible until he defects. That's literally the Romaicelli position. And 1360 01:40:13.279 --> 01:40:14.960 you just heard admit that. 1361 01:40:15.399 --> 01:40:19.720 Mention this letter. Yes, for that Holy see speaking rom 1362 01:40:20.239 --> 01:40:23.640 has precedence over all churches in the world for many reasons, 1363 01:40:23.680 --> 01:40:26.119 and above all for this that is free from any 1364 01:40:26.159 --> 01:40:30.239 taint of heresy, and that no bishop of heterodox's opinion 1365 01:40:30.319 --> 01:40:33.800 has ever sat upon its throne, but has kept the 1366 01:40:33.800 --> 01:40:37.600 grace of the apostles undefiled. Do you think he's correct? 1367 01:40:37.680 --> 01:40:41.000 I mean, so that's pretty strong, flowery language. 1368 01:40:41.399 --> 01:40:46.239 Uh oh, unless he elsewhere condemns another pope. 1369 01:40:46.720 --> 01:40:48.880 So, as you mentioned, maybe he didn't know. I mean, 1370 01:40:48.880 --> 01:40:50.720 he's out in the sounds like he's out in the 1371 01:40:50.720 --> 01:40:55.960 boondocks when he riots, I can the constitutions of the 1372 01:40:56.000 --> 01:40:56.920 church be destroyed? 1373 01:40:58.640 --> 01:41:01.479 Constitution, the police, You're just done through the churches, right? 1374 01:41:01.479 --> 01:41:03.079 And these guys are talking about when the Holy spirits 1375 01:41:03.119 --> 01:41:06.119 down through the church is always, always, always, so I mean, okay, 1376 01:41:06.159 --> 01:41:09.199 so in one case remaining, oh thank you. So in 1377 01:41:09.239 --> 01:41:13.159 this case, I mean, when taking too account that there 1378 01:41:13.199 --> 01:41:16.159 had been heretical popes, I mean, I don't see how 1379 01:41:16.199 --> 01:41:18.840 you can maintain that the always there should be the exception. 1380 01:41:19.039 --> 01:41:23.920 Yeah, we don't know. So oh, always the papacy was 1381 01:41:24.039 --> 01:41:26.119 always the rock and never taught error. 1382 01:41:26.720 --> 01:41:28.399 Right, right, And these guys are talking about, with the 1383 01:41:28.399 --> 01:41:30.600 Holy spirits down through the church is always, always, always. 1384 01:41:31.039 --> 01:41:33.920 So I mean, okay, so in one case remaining, oh 1385 01:41:33.960 --> 01:41:38.279 thank you. So in this case, I mean, when taking 1386 01:41:38.319 --> 01:41:40.479 too account that there had been heretical popes, I mean, 1387 01:41:41.239 --> 01:41:43.439 I don't see how you can maintain that they always 1388 01:41:43.439 --> 01:41:44.680 there should be the exception. 1389 01:41:44.880 --> 01:41:45.399 Yeah, we don't know. 1390 01:41:45.520 --> 01:41:49.239 I mean, look, I believe Honorius was a condemned heretic. 1391 01:41:49.520 --> 01:41:57.520 Oh so the papacy isn't indefectible. It's indefectible until it defects. 1392 01:41:57.600 --> 01:42:00.239 So you understand that the bar right there denied the 1393 01:42:00.239 --> 01:42:02.880 indefectibility of the Roman See do you. 1394 01:42:02.920 --> 01:42:06.640 Think in the case of Saint Silverius, he was deposed 1395 01:42:06.680 --> 01:42:09.960 by bel Sorrus, He's sent to Justinian, finds out says 1396 01:42:10.319 --> 01:42:12.680 you have to give a guy trial. He's handed over 1397 01:42:12.920 --> 01:42:18.159 to Virgilius. Virgilious he was a horrible person. I don't 1398 01:42:18.159 --> 01:42:20.439 know when sounds of it, He's horrible. I mean, how 1399 01:42:20.439 --> 01:42:22.560 does that work out? If Virgilius is the pope, but 1400 01:42:22.600 --> 01:42:24.880 he's judging a former pope. That means that the deposition 1401 01:42:24.920 --> 01:42:28.159 of the former pope had to be valid if Virgilius 1402 01:42:28.199 --> 01:42:31.600 is a pope. If if the deposition is not invalid 1403 01:42:31.960 --> 01:42:34.119 and Virgilius is judging him, then you still have the 1404 01:42:34.119 --> 01:42:36.359 situation of a pope being judged by non pope. 1405 01:42:36.920 --> 01:42:39.279 I'll be candid with you, this is something that I 1406 01:42:39.479 --> 01:42:42.600 have not really had a satisfactory answer to. 1407 01:42:43.359 --> 01:42:47.039 Oh so when we have the real hardcore problems the 1408 01:42:47.079 --> 01:42:50.840 top apologist, I don't know, man, I don't have the answer. 1409 01:42:50.960 --> 01:42:54.640 So there's Abara, who's way more advanced than this goofball 1410 01:42:55.319 --> 01:42:56.359 doesn't know the answer. 1411 01:42:57.239 --> 01:43:01.600 That the way the papacy looks at the time, they're 1412 01:43:01.640 --> 01:43:04.399 not saying, well, the papacy has to look like this. Yeah, 1413 01:43:04.439 --> 01:43:07.279 in the one hundreds, the church has been persecuted. You know, 1414 01:43:07.640 --> 01:43:09.960 the church has developed, doctrine has developed. 1415 01:43:10.000 --> 01:43:12.680 There's no argument about Oh so wait a minute, now, 1416 01:43:12.720 --> 01:43:19.680 remember Vatican One Pastor attornis uh uh satist cognitium. They 1417 01:43:19.760 --> 01:43:24.439 actually argue that the prerogatives and the powers of the 1418 01:43:24.520 --> 01:43:28.199 Roman bishop were always there and always known and recognized 1419 01:43:28.279 --> 01:43:32.840 by the rest of the church from the earliest days. Well, 1420 01:43:32.840 --> 01:43:35.600 but it is persecuted, so it's not really there. You 1421 01:43:35.600 --> 01:43:37.520 don't really see it. They're not able to do it, 1422 01:43:39.039 --> 01:43:42.159 and it develops. So wait a minute, is it always 1423 01:43:42.199 --> 01:43:46.319 there and clear from the earliest days? According to the 1424 01:43:46.439 --> 01:43:49.720 Vatican one and Lee the thirteenth people teaching or was 1425 01:43:49.760 --> 01:43:53.359 it not clear? And it developed over time into unum 1426 01:43:53.399 --> 01:43:57.239 sanctum and the pope is the king of kings and 1427 01:43:57.319 --> 01:44:01.439 has a bank run by the roth Charles the Battican Bank. 1428 01:44:01.760 --> 01:44:03.880 Which one is it? Is it a development or was 1429 01:44:03.920 --> 01:44:06.920 it always there? Those are mutual exclusive claims. 1430 01:44:06.920 --> 01:44:11.560 You see doctrine developing. It is not the same thing 1431 01:44:11.680 --> 01:44:14.960 as saying that doctrine has been created and there is 1432 01:44:15.000 --> 01:44:17.159 no example of this his Oh really? 1433 01:44:17.279 --> 01:44:17.600 Yeah? 1434 01:44:17.720 --> 01:44:21.920 What about the idea that the Roman bishop has full 1435 01:44:22.159 --> 01:44:25.600 temporal authority over all kings and it is himself a 1436 01:44:25.720 --> 01:44:29.319 king of kings. And if you don't believe that, your 1437 01:44:29.520 --> 01:44:33.680 dannd where in the first thousand years is there a 1438 01:44:33.760 --> 01:44:37.439 doctrine of that? You must believe in the temporal supremacy 1439 01:44:37.439 --> 01:44:39.760 of the Roman Bishop to be saved. Oh, it doesn't exist. 1440 01:44:40.359 --> 01:44:41.800 That refused the very thing he just said. 1441 01:44:43.880 --> 01:44:47.039 You know, the unfolding of the doctrine in industry is 1442 01:44:47.039 --> 01:44:49.840 another thing too. So it's a good point. You bring 1443 01:44:49.920 --> 01:44:52.239 up the wordy in orthodox A. Yeah, well they do 1444 01:44:52.319 --> 01:44:56.439 accept ephesisure. What's interesting there is you have at emphasis 1445 01:44:56.880 --> 01:45:00.279 Phillip the leg at the representative of the Pope making 1446 01:45:00.279 --> 01:45:03.159 some pretty serious claims in front of the Council fathers 1447 01:45:03.520 --> 01:45:06.279 about the Bishop of Rome. That is really the seeds 1448 01:45:06.279 --> 01:45:09.000 of Vatican Willing in my estimation, Yeah, no doubt he 1449 01:45:09.159 --> 01:45:10.239 makes them openly. 1450 01:45:10.479 --> 01:45:13.680 Oh so wait a minute, remember Vatican I and post 1451 01:45:13.720 --> 01:45:17.039 returners in Scatheast Cognito teach that the powers and prerogatives 1452 01:45:17.039 --> 01:45:19.279 of the Roman bishop were always there from the earliest days, 1453 01:45:19.319 --> 01:45:22.880 recognized by all. But now we have at ephesis the 1454 01:45:23.000 --> 01:45:26.720 seeds of the papacy. So understand that when you admit 1455 01:45:26.960 --> 01:45:32.880 that these doctrines and these ecclesiology type structures evolve, you're 1456 01:45:32.960 --> 01:45:38.760 admitting the evolution of doctrine, which allows for a position 1457 01:45:39.039 --> 01:45:45.359 of in nineteen twenty eight condemning interfaith gatherings to nineteen 1458 01:45:45.399 --> 01:45:47.960 sixty eight, sixty nine, seventy. Now it's the work of 1459 01:45:47.960 --> 01:45:51.119 the Holy Spirit. If doctrine evolves, the Holy Spirit can 1460 01:45:51.159 --> 01:45:54.439 contradict himself followers accepted. 1461 01:45:54.840 --> 01:45:58.279 Yeah, yeah, there's no doubt about that. So you bring 1462 01:45:58.359 --> 01:46:01.479 up a very good example there, because the church is 1463 01:46:01.520 --> 01:46:05.560 not broken off at that time in emphasis. So to me, 1464 01:46:06.520 --> 01:46:09.800 the best that they can do is try to claim 1465 01:46:09.840 --> 01:46:11.840 that maybe later on that that wasn't accepted. It was 1466 01:46:11.880 --> 01:46:14.680 accepted there though there was no doubt about it. There 1467 01:46:14.720 --> 01:46:17.000 is no doubt that it was accepted there. 1468 01:46:17.079 --> 01:46:21.520 So what do we But again, the flowery language or 1469 01:46:21.560 --> 01:46:25.079 the strong language of legates at Ephesus, this comes up 1470 01:46:25.279 --> 01:46:30.119 in the I think it was the Yeah, let's remind 1471 01:46:30.159 --> 01:46:35.640 everybody of this classic. Right, So the the translator of 1472 01:46:35.720 --> 01:46:40.560 these texts, right, they had him on reason and theology, 1473 01:46:41.760 --> 01:46:47.000 Father Price, right, So let's remind these two people in 1474 01:46:47.079 --> 01:46:50.119 terms of the source that they're going to Richard Price. 1475 01:46:51.000 --> 01:46:56.920 What does Richard Price say about this argument of Chalcedon 1476 01:46:57.199 --> 01:46:59.800 and Ephesus. Let's see what he says, because he doesn't 1477 01:46:59.800 --> 01:47:02.520 say what they say, but he's who they rely on. 1478 01:47:02.760 --> 01:47:03.079 What's this? 1479 01:47:10.880 --> 01:47:13.880 Why did the bishops in Calcidon feel they needed to 1480 01:47:14.000 --> 01:47:17.560 judge THEODOREA if Leo had already reinstated him. 1481 01:47:18.159 --> 01:47:28.800 Oh, well they didn't. They didn't recognize Roman jurisdiction in 1482 01:47:28.840 --> 01:47:30.239 the eastern provinces. 1483 01:47:30.239 --> 01:47:31.159 Whoa you? 1484 01:47:31.680 --> 01:47:36.920 So there's reinstating for them was not decisive. The decision 1485 01:47:37.039 --> 01:47:51.119 has to be made in the east. The the Odora's 1486 01:47:51.119 --> 01:47:55.119 position at the council is an interesting one. Uh when 1487 01:47:55.319 --> 01:47:56.880 the uh. 1488 01:47:57.399 --> 01:47:59.960 So you see why this was not what they wanted 1489 01:48:00.079 --> 01:48:04.079 on this stream. They invited Richard Price On who translated 1490 01:48:04.239 --> 01:48:08.439 the Ecumenical Council acts in the sessions and all that, right, 1491 01:48:09.439 --> 01:48:12.760 and they got a question that didn't fit their made 1492 01:48:12.800 --> 01:48:17.800 up narrative. Right. And Richard Price is admitting, because he's 1493 01:48:17.920 --> 01:48:21.199 enough of a scholar and he's honest with the texts, 1494 01:48:21.319 --> 01:48:25.880 that the East didn't care about Roman authority and the 1495 01:48:25.920 --> 01:48:29.319 Roman bishop in some sort of unilateral way. It's the 1496 01:48:29.359 --> 01:48:33.119 exact same thing that Rome's eighty document says right here 1497 01:48:33.119 --> 01:48:36.439 in paragraph nineteen. The Bishop of Rome did not exercise 1498 01:48:36.520 --> 01:48:39.199 canonical authority over the churches of the East. Let's hear 1499 01:48:39.239 --> 01:48:43.039 Father Richard Price again, the very guy that these guys 1500 01:48:43.119 --> 01:48:43.760 rely upon. 1501 01:48:44.279 --> 01:48:48.039 You understand, the bishops and calcid On feel they needed 1502 01:48:48.039 --> 01:48:55.279 to judge Theodora if Leo had already reinstated him. 1503 01:48:55.520 --> 01:49:03.039 Well they didn't, for they didn't recognize Roman jurisdiction in 1504 01:49:03.079 --> 01:49:04.560 the Eastern provinces. 1505 01:49:05.000 --> 01:49:08.439 Oh oops, doesn't fit the narrative. Just ignore it. 1506 01:49:08.880 --> 01:49:11.720 Talk about the orient Orthodox. That to me is a 1507 01:49:11.800 --> 01:49:16.960 problem for them because they reject the papacy. But it 1508 01:49:17.039 --> 01:49:20.680 becomes an even greater problem for the Eastern Orthodox because 1509 01:49:20.720 --> 01:49:23.680 we have so many examples, especially at the Second Council 1510 01:49:23.720 --> 01:49:27.079 of Nicea, and this is what I would. 1511 01:49:26.840 --> 01:49:30.000 Ask Before he goes into this, I should point out 1512 01:49:30.039 --> 01:49:34.119 that from the Orthodox perspective, the power and prerogatives of 1513 01:49:34.159 --> 01:49:39.800 the Roman bishop are something that unfortunately evolved. So I'm 1514 01:49:39.800 --> 01:49:44.760 not saying that actual theology develops. I'm saying that the 1515 01:49:44.800 --> 01:49:48.079 power and prerogatives of the Roman bishop developed over time, 1516 01:49:48.199 --> 01:49:51.520 and you do get stronger and stronger statements about the 1517 01:49:51.560 --> 01:49:54.479 power and prerogatives of the Roman bishop. So even by 1518 01:49:54.520 --> 01:49:57.079 the time of the Seventh Ecumenical Council, when they had 1519 01:49:57.079 --> 01:49:59.960 already accepted pentarchy, you tell that to a Roman calogy, 1520 01:50:00.039 --> 01:50:01.680 they think that you're making that up. They don't even 1521 01:50:01.720 --> 01:50:06.880 realize that their own popes accepted the pentarchical structure by 1522 01:50:06.920 --> 01:50:10.840 the time of the sixth and seventh Council. They're assuming 1523 01:50:10.960 --> 01:50:15.439 that the statement from the Bishop of Rome necessarily makes it. 1524 01:50:15.520 --> 01:50:15.600 So. 1525 01:50:16.039 --> 01:50:19.479 Well, that would only be true if the Roman Catholic 1526 01:50:19.960 --> 01:50:22.720 Vatican One position was true, which is the thing in question. 1527 01:50:22.840 --> 01:50:26.600 So you notice, because these people are evidentialists and they're 1528 01:50:26.760 --> 01:50:30.119 very sort of low tier, not very sophisticated when it 1529 01:50:30.119 --> 01:50:33.760 comes to epistemology. They just assume that you just quote 1530 01:50:33.800 --> 01:50:36.239 mine and pick out the evidences, and if you stack 1531 01:50:36.359 --> 01:50:40.600 up enough evidences, then it ninety two percent proves maybe 1532 01:50:40.640 --> 01:50:45.960 the papacy in its seed form. But that's misunderstanding the 1533 01:50:46.239 --> 01:50:50.439 paradigm question here. From the Orthodox paradigm, just because the 1534 01:50:50.520 --> 01:50:53.640 Roman bishop starts accruing to himself more and more power, 1535 01:50:54.319 --> 01:50:56.680 which you clearly see in when I'm signed them and 1536 01:50:57.159 --> 01:51:01.760 Dictatus Pope, it doesn't mean that it's good or necessarily so. 1537 01:51:02.840 --> 01:51:06.000 From the Orthodox perspective, the Bishop of Rome is like 1538 01:51:06.039 --> 01:51:08.920 any other bishop. He can be a heretic. You've heard 1539 01:51:08.960 --> 01:51:13.199 Ibara admit that there were heretic popes. There's no special 1540 01:51:13.279 --> 01:51:19.479 prerogative that makes that guy immune to these problems. So 1541 01:51:19.600 --> 01:51:23.199 the fact that a pope, as we get into the seventh, eighth, 1542 01:51:23.199 --> 01:51:27.920 and ninth century, makes more outlandish claims, makes more outlandish 1543 01:51:28.000 --> 01:51:32.399 temporal power claims, doesn't prove anything other than that you're 1544 01:51:32.399 --> 01:51:37.840 just presupposing the papal position. But they don't actually think 1545 01:51:37.880 --> 01:51:40.880 that way, right. They think that if the pope has 1546 01:51:41.000 --> 01:51:45.159 more and more outlandish claims, that proves the papacy. Well, 1547 01:51:45.239 --> 01:51:48.000 only if the papacy in the Vatican One position is true. 1548 01:51:48.159 --> 01:51:50.680 Is that the case, But that's the thing in question. 1549 01:51:51.880 --> 01:51:55.800 Which church most resembles that church of the second Coast 1550 01:51:55.840 --> 01:51:57.399 of nice in language? 1551 01:51:57.840 --> 01:52:00.640 And oh, really, you're sure you want to go that route? 1552 01:52:00.680 --> 01:52:04.720 Because the Second Council of Nicea is about icons, and 1553 01:52:04.960 --> 01:52:09.640 the iconographic theology of that council lays down patterns and 1554 01:52:09.720 --> 01:52:14.720 structures that are not allowable outside of the canons of 1555 01:52:14.720 --> 01:52:18.359 what's appropriate for worship. In fact, there's a council that 1556 01:52:18.520 --> 01:52:23.000 reaffirms Nicea two in eight forty three. It's called the 1557 01:52:23.039 --> 01:52:26.880 Triumph of Orthodoxy in the East because it's the final 1558 01:52:26.960 --> 01:52:31.119 victory of Nicea two over the Iconoclasts, and that produces 1559 01:52:31.159 --> 01:52:35.600 a gigantic document called the Sonoticon, which condemns all kinds 1560 01:52:35.640 --> 01:52:42.199 of things, including the outlandish violations of worship and errors 1561 01:52:42.279 --> 01:52:46.319 in the Roman Catholic system. Eventually, this develops in a 1562 01:52:46.439 --> 01:52:49.000 lower D sense of developed. I don't mean that the 1563 01:52:49.039 --> 01:52:51.680 doctrine change, but I'm saying that canon law is the 1564 01:52:51.680 --> 01:52:56.039 application of the principles at different times and in different ways. 1565 01:52:56.279 --> 01:52:59.319 For us, canon law can be flexible. It has to 1566 01:52:59.359 --> 01:53:02.880 be can't be immutable. There has to be changes and 1567 01:53:03.239 --> 01:53:08.399 applications of canon law because cities go away. Times change. 1568 01:53:08.399 --> 01:53:11.920 For example, you have canons that say that clergy can't 1569 01:53:12.000 --> 01:53:17.680 ride on a horse, right, eventually clergy can ride horses 1570 01:53:17.720 --> 01:53:20.319 because we don't have nobility anymore. So horse riding was 1571 01:53:20.359 --> 01:53:23.239 something for the nobility, and priests weren't supposed to be 1572 01:53:23.319 --> 01:53:26.359 engaging in the actions of a civil servant and the nobility. 1573 01:53:26.760 --> 01:53:29.960 So that's why that canon was there. So canons are 1574 01:53:30.000 --> 01:53:33.920 a tricky thing because they're not necessarily infallible or immutable 1575 01:53:34.039 --> 01:53:38.279 or eternal. Their applications of the principles of divine revelation 1576 01:53:38.399 --> 01:53:40.680 to the time and to the place. And I don't 1577 01:53:40.680 --> 01:53:43.159 think anybody believes that unless they're sort of crazy, that 1578 01:53:43.600 --> 01:53:46.119 all the canons are infallible and eternal. It's just not 1579 01:53:46.199 --> 01:53:51.560 even a possible position. And that's different from the Creeds 1580 01:53:51.640 --> 01:53:55.119 or the confessions or the dogmatic statements of an ecumenical council. 1581 01:53:57.319 --> 01:54:01.359 And I would argue the anathemas are also. You can't 1582 01:54:01.399 --> 01:54:04.279 deny the anathemos like voice of reason. And these guys 1583 01:54:04.319 --> 01:54:09.560 do to try to make Mystorius into something acceptable in 1584 01:54:09.560 --> 01:54:11.520 the Roman Calolic Church, but they actually do, they actually 1585 01:54:11.520 --> 01:54:15.319 accept Nestorius in the Romancolic Church. It's crazy. But again 1586 01:54:15.479 --> 01:54:17.960 you notice that it's all premised on the idea that 1587 01:54:19.159 --> 01:54:23.039 the system can evolve, and what we have today in 1588 01:54:23.079 --> 01:54:27.640 the modern Roman system is somehow identical to the seed 1589 01:54:27.720 --> 01:54:30.520 forms of the Church in the first thousand years, when 1590 01:54:30.720 --> 01:54:41.800 every ecumenical council has canons that refute the Vatican one mindset. 1591 01:54:42.680 --> 01:54:44.239 Now wait a minute, Jay, I thought you said that 1592 01:54:45.880 --> 01:54:49.359 the canons are flexible. That's correct. The argument is not 1593 01:54:49.479 --> 01:54:54.880 that ecumenical canons are infallible and thus refute the premiacy 1594 01:54:54.880 --> 01:54:58.479 of the Roman bishop. The point is that in every 1595 01:54:58.479 --> 01:55:03.039 ecumenical council there are canons past that show that the 1596 01:55:03.079 --> 01:55:06.520 council didn't have the mindset of Vatican one, because it 1597 01:55:06.600 --> 01:55:09.960 contradicts the mindset of Vatican one in every acumenical council. 1598 01:55:10.199 --> 01:55:12.520 But you notice the Roman Catholics have left out all 1599 01:55:12.560 --> 01:55:16.960 of that evidence, and they've selectively chosen the things, and 1600 01:55:17.000 --> 01:55:19.479 in this talk they haven't even done any that. They've 1601 01:55:19.520 --> 01:55:23.239 done little to no argumentation. They've cited three Bible verses 1602 01:55:23.800 --> 01:55:31.119 and two councils and they haven't addressed any objections. And 1603 01:55:31.159 --> 01:55:35.800 I'll give you right here this essay that I did 1604 01:55:35.920 --> 01:55:38.600 or excuse me that Seraphim, who's now a deacon. It 1605 01:55:38.720 --> 01:55:41.000 might be a priest by now, but this was a 1606 01:55:41.039 --> 01:55:44.800 buddy of ours from the discord, who is now a clergy. 1607 01:55:44.920 --> 01:55:48.720 By the way, from twenty eighteen. I think he wrote 1608 01:55:48.760 --> 01:55:55.239 this in twenty eighteen. I posted in twenty twenty, So 1609 01:55:55.359 --> 01:55:57.680 my computers might be freezing here. 1610 01:56:04.960 --> 01:56:06.560 It would be without a doubt. 1611 01:56:12.039 --> 01:56:18.079 Yeah, you and I see it too, also argue no 1612 01:56:18.119 --> 01:56:21.600 doubt I would even know Vigilious and the way he 1613 01:56:21.720 --> 01:56:23.560 views himself with the Fifth Council. 1614 01:56:24.520 --> 01:56:29.560 You just heard Ubi stomp Ibarra on Virgilia. So here's 1615 01:56:30.159 --> 01:56:38.000 Loten appealing to Virgilius. And what did They're better? And 1616 01:56:38.039 --> 01:56:40.600 Ibarra is way more advanced than either of these goofballs. 1617 01:56:40.640 --> 01:56:43.640 What did he Borro say about Virgilius never departed from 1618 01:56:43.680 --> 01:56:46.720 the traditions of the fathers and directed the Church of God? 1619 01:56:46.760 --> 01:56:51.199 And do you think in the case of Saint Silverius, 1620 01:56:51.760 --> 01:56:54.840 he was deposed by Bill Sorrius, he's sent to Justinian, 1621 01:56:54.880 --> 01:56:57.800 finds out says you have to give the sky a trial. 1622 01:56:57.840 --> 01:56:58.560 He's handed over. 1623 01:56:58.640 --> 01:57:04.279 To Virgiliusius was a horrible person. I don't know from 1624 01:57:04.239 --> 01:57:06.319 the sounds of it is horrible. I mean, how does 1625 01:57:06.359 --> 01:57:08.479 that work out? If Virgilius is the pope, but he's 1626 01:57:08.560 --> 01:57:10.720 judging a former pope. That means that the deposition of 1627 01:57:10.760 --> 01:57:13.399 the former pope had to be valid if. 1628 01:57:13.279 --> 01:57:14.439 Virgilius is a pope. 1629 01:57:14.439 --> 01:57:18.560 If if the deposition is not invalid and Virgilius is 1630 01:57:18.640 --> 01:57:20.600 judging him, then you still have the situation of a 1631 01:57:20.640 --> 01:57:22.119 pope being judged by non pope. 1632 01:57:22.680 --> 01:57:23.760 I'll be candid with you. 1633 01:57:23.920 --> 01:57:27.000 This is something that I have not really had a 1634 01:57:27.079 --> 01:57:28.359 satisfactory answer to. 1635 01:57:29.239 --> 01:57:35.680 So the best top papacy apologist can't explain the very 1636 01:57:35.760 --> 01:57:39.399 thing that Lofton just said is the best argument for 1637 01:57:39.439 --> 01:57:43.119 the papacy? Are you serious or one of the best. 1638 01:57:43.039 --> 01:57:46.760 Fourth council Leo? He most certainly thought his son was 1639 01:57:46.800 --> 01:57:50.079 a definitive prior to an ecumenical council. 1640 01:57:50.359 --> 01:57:54.680 Nobody didn't, though, And the quote that we just saw 1641 01:57:54.920 --> 01:58:00.520 from Richard Price refutes that. You see, And I wonder 1642 01:58:00.560 --> 01:58:02.600 if they still have the Price thing up. They might 1643 01:58:02.600 --> 01:58:05.079 have taken it down just because it doesn't fit with 1644 01:58:06.159 --> 01:58:15.560 Lofton's narrative. Right, So you hear you heard what Lofton said, Right? 1645 01:58:17.640 --> 01:58:24.239 We know it's so obvious that Chalcedon Chalcedon thought Leo 1646 01:58:24.760 --> 01:58:30.159 was authoritative and he had full temporal power and supremacy. 1647 01:58:30.199 --> 01:58:31.359 Let's hear it once more. 1648 01:58:32.159 --> 01:58:35.199 Why did the bishops in Chalcedon feel they needed to 1649 01:58:35.279 --> 01:58:39.279 judge Theodora if Leo had already reinstated him. 1650 01:58:39.560 --> 01:58:43.800 So why are the bishops of Chalcedon separately judging this 1651 01:58:43.880 --> 01:58:48.439 individual called Theodora? It's over the Nestorian question, even though 1652 01:58:48.479 --> 01:58:55.039 they knew that Leo had already pronounced a condemnation. If 1653 01:58:55.960 --> 01:59:00.319 Leo had ex cathedra papal power and authority, they would 1654 01:59:00.399 --> 01:59:05.319 not rejudge something that Rome has spoken cases closed, right, 1655 01:59:06.479 --> 01:59:09.600 And what does their scholar that they're relying on here 1656 01:59:09.680 --> 01:59:11.760 with all of these translations of the council. 1657 01:59:11.560 --> 01:59:22.800 Said, Well, they didn't they didn't recognize Roman jurisdiction in 1658 01:59:22.840 --> 01:59:23.880 the Eastern Prophnce. 1659 01:59:24.000 --> 01:59:28.079 Oh oh, oops, I guess it's not Vatican One at 1660 01:59:28.079 --> 01:59:29.039 the time of Calcedon. 1661 01:59:29.159 --> 01:59:33.720 Is it ruling on the matter? And what's even more interesting, 1662 01:59:33.720 --> 01:59:37.840 he is he overturns a canon of the Council of Calcedon. 1663 01:59:39.079 --> 01:59:43.039 Oops. Oops, it's not what he does. 1664 01:59:45.239 --> 01:59:49.760 By the authority of Saint Peter a council. 1665 01:59:50.159 --> 01:59:53.199 Yeah, this is the Roman Catholic revisionist story of what 1666 01:59:53.279 --> 01:59:56.520 Canon twenty eight of Calceildon is about. When you actually 1667 01:59:56.600 --> 02:00:00.600 look at what Leo says, Leo does not say, I 1668 02:00:00.680 --> 02:00:04.000 reject this because I'm the pope. I rejected because of Rome. 1669 02:00:04.600 --> 02:00:11.640 Canon twenty eight of Calceldon that Constantinople one had already 1670 02:00:11.760 --> 02:00:20.439 enacted by the way out of Connunia with Rome made 1671 02:00:20.800 --> 02:00:27.039 Constantinople second after Rome. So it placed new Rome second 1672 02:00:27.239 --> 02:00:36.359 after old Rome. All right, so here it is, and 1673 02:00:37.119 --> 02:00:41.319 why did Leo reject this? It had nothing to do 1674 02:00:41.720 --> 02:00:46.720 with Vatican one papal prerogatives. The real reason why, if 1675 02:00:46.760 --> 02:00:50.439 you actually read into the subject matter, is that Leo believed, 1676 02:00:51.000 --> 02:00:58.000 somewhat correctly, you could argue that Canon twenty eight of Calclodon, 1677 02:00:58.079 --> 02:01:01.840 which is actually a canon from Constantinople one, at this 1678 02:01:01.960 --> 02:01:05.279 time Rome had not yet accepted Constantinople one. Keep that 1679 02:01:05.319 --> 02:01:09.119 in mind. Leo believed that it violated the rights and 1680 02:01:09.159 --> 02:01:12.560 the privileges of Canon six of Nicia. So if you 1681 02:01:12.640 --> 02:01:15.119 go back to Nicia, Canon six says, let the ancient 1682 02:01:15.199 --> 02:01:18.880 customs in Egypt, Libya and Libya and Patapolis prevail. The 1683 02:01:18.920 --> 02:01:22.680 Bishop Alexandria has jurisdiction in all these since his like 1684 02:01:22.840 --> 02:01:26.520 is customary for the bishop of Rome and likewise Antioch. 1685 02:01:26.640 --> 02:01:30.880 So notice the jurisdiction of Rome, Antioch, and Alexandria is 1686 02:01:31.000 --> 02:01:34.039 all likened to be similar. By the way, there's nothing 1687 02:01:34.079 --> 02:01:39.279 about universal autocratic, unilateral jurisdiction here. And when you bring 1688 02:01:39.279 --> 02:01:41.319 it up to the Roman Catholics, well, it's an argument 1689 02:01:41.479 --> 02:01:44.119 from solnce because they just all knew it. It's not there, 1690 02:01:44.199 --> 02:01:47.000 but they knew it. So again they ignore the country 1691 02:01:47.000 --> 02:01:49.079 evidence and just assume it and say that it's an 1692 02:01:49.119 --> 02:01:52.039 argument from silence, which is what it borrow says. Now, 1693 02:01:53.199 --> 02:01:57.319 Leo thought that to say that Constantinople now was the 1694 02:01:57.359 --> 02:02:02.359 second to see after Rome in this listing of canonical 1695 02:02:02.399 --> 02:02:08.039 privileges would be to violate Canon six of Nicea. So 1696 02:02:08.279 --> 02:02:11.399 it had nothing to do with the authority of the 1697 02:02:11.479 --> 02:02:16.880 Roman bishop. It's rather that this canon, that is Canon 1698 02:02:16.880 --> 02:02:24.359 twentia of Calcildon, was a restatement of a canon from 1699 02:02:24.439 --> 02:02:36.479 Constantinople one. Constantinople one tried to make for the East. 1700 02:02:37.319 --> 02:02:58.720 In the East saw this as a ecumenical council. They 1701 02:02:58.800 --> 02:03:14.600 tried to make the UH the place of Constantinople second right. 1702 02:03:15.479 --> 02:03:29.399 And if you go to UH Nicia. It's different in 1703 02:03:29.479 --> 02:03:32.079 terms of the canonical structure. Right, so it differs from 1704 02:03:32.199 --> 02:03:46.119 Nicea in the canonical structure. So here you see, here's 1705 02:03:46.920 --> 02:03:54.720 here's Constantinople one. Right, here's Canon three. Because it is 1706 02:03:54.800 --> 02:03:59.399 new Rome. Let the Bishop of Constantinople enjoy the privileges 1707 02:03:59.439 --> 02:04:02.439 of honor after the Bishop of Rome. Does this say 1708 02:04:02.439 --> 02:04:07.760 anything about papal prerogatives unilateral jurisdiction. No? No, it says 1709 02:04:07.800 --> 02:04:12.800 the privileges of honor right after the Bishop of Rome, 1710 02:04:13.680 --> 02:04:19.000 and let the patriarchal Constantinople be number two. See so 1711 02:04:19.920 --> 02:04:24.840 Leo says that's not fair to the canonical structure listed 1712 02:04:24.840 --> 02:04:30.279 at Chalcedon. That's why Leo rejects it. Right, has nothing 1713 02:04:30.319 --> 02:04:34.279 to do with Vatican one papal powers. He just doesn't 1714 02:04:34.359 --> 02:04:39.560 accept it because the papacy did not accept Constantinople one 1715 02:04:39.600 --> 02:04:43.720 at this time. Constant Noble one is the Trinity Council. 1716 02:04:44.199 --> 02:04:47.800 It's the council that was held out of communion with Rome, 1717 02:04:48.880 --> 02:04:57.439 which dogmatize the Cappadocian doctrine of the Trinity. The decree 1718 02:04:57.479 --> 02:05:00.239 of that council says you must follow the two of 1719 02:05:00.279 --> 02:05:05.079 Saint Gregory of Nissa to be orthodox in your trinitarian theology. 1720 02:05:05.520 --> 02:05:07.359 And by the way, the Roman Church does not follow that. 1721 02:05:08.359 --> 02:05:15.359 So constantinople One is not accepted as an ecumenical council 1722 02:05:15.479 --> 02:05:19.800 until centuries after Leo by the West. Do you hear me? 1723 02:05:19.960 --> 02:05:25.840 The papacy later accepts constantinople One even though it was 1724 02:05:25.840 --> 02:05:29.079 called out of commune with Rome. It's presiding St. St. 1725 02:05:29.079 --> 02:05:30.840 Meldio's died out of commune with Rome. 1726 02:05:31.640 --> 02:05:32.720 Oh, it just. 1727 02:05:32.720 --> 02:05:37.079 Happens to magically retroactively be an ecumenical council once Rome 1728 02:05:37.119 --> 02:05:41.439 accepts it, and it dogmatizes the Trinity. So you understand 1729 02:05:41.479 --> 02:05:44.399 that what they're talking about, they actually understood this. It 1730 02:05:44.479 --> 02:05:47.720 actually destroys the Vatican One via the Papacy because it's 1731 02:05:47.760 --> 02:05:53.199 admitting that this original controversial canon comes from a council 1732 02:05:53.680 --> 02:05:59.800 that defines and dogmatizes the Trinity outside of communion with Rome. 1733 02:06:01.680 --> 02:06:05.479 Yeah, no doubt, which, if you think about it, the 1734 02:06:05.520 --> 02:06:08.399 proceeding has been set at the Council of Jerusalem in 1735 02:06:08.600 --> 02:06:13.000 X chapter fifteen. Now, nobody's going to doubt or argue 1736 02:06:13.279 --> 02:06:15.359 that the head of the church in Jerusalem. 1737 02:06:14.920 --> 02:06:18.119 Was James Nobody, of course, But who is the one 1738 02:06:18.159 --> 02:06:18.680 that makes the. 1739 02:06:18.640 --> 02:06:24.239 Decision and James of course after James. Of course, James agrees, 1740 02:06:24.920 --> 02:06:27.319 But it is Saint Peter who does it. And that's 1741 02:06:27.359 --> 02:06:31.479 a big, big factor because you look at the commentary 1742 02:06:31.520 --> 02:06:34.840 in X fifteen by Saint Jerome and he's noting the 1743 02:06:34.960 --> 02:06:38.319 very same thing, calling Peter Saint Peter the prime mover 1744 02:06:38.720 --> 02:06:39.399 of the Council. 1745 02:06:39.600 --> 02:06:42.720 So well, first of all, the fact that Jerome says 1746 02:06:42.720 --> 02:06:49.239 that that also doesn't translate into Vatican Ones claims and 1747 02:06:49.279 --> 02:06:55.439 there's nothing in this that tells us that because so 1748 02:06:55.479 --> 02:06:58.840 hold on. So they're admitting that it's presided over by James. 1749 02:06:59.319 --> 02:07:02.479 But they're saying, but Peter makes all the decisions. What 1750 02:07:02.560 --> 02:07:07.680 does it actually say at the decree here it pleads 1751 02:07:07.800 --> 02:07:13.239 the apostles and the elders with the whole church to 1752 02:07:13.319 --> 02:07:19.800 send this out. Does it say anything about papal decree? 1753 02:07:20.000 --> 02:07:23.279 There is no papal decree model here. In fact, it's 1754 02:07:23.319 --> 02:07:26.359 so bad for them they actually have to say that, well, 1755 02:07:26.399 --> 02:07:30.439 Peter spoke at the beginning, and Jerome thinks that he 1756 02:07:31.279 --> 02:07:36.359 was important at the council. But they just admitted that 1757 02:07:36.399 --> 02:07:44.079 it was presided over right by James. Now let's see 1758 02:07:44.119 --> 02:07:46.920 what their argument is. The apostles and the elders came 1759 02:07:46.960 --> 02:07:51.039 together to consider this matter. There's a dispute. Peter spoke 1760 02:07:51.079 --> 02:07:54.960 and said, men of God, you know that God chose 1761 02:07:55.000 --> 02:07:58.840 me to be the mouth of the gentiles. God knows 1762 02:07:58.920 --> 02:08:02.000 the heart and acknowledge them by giving them the Holy Spirit. 1763 02:08:02.039 --> 02:08:06.800 Just seated us, so we should receive them without much fuss. 1764 02:08:07.359 --> 02:08:13.119 Then all the multitude kept silent, and Barnabas and Paul 1765 02:08:13.239 --> 02:08:20.239 declared the wonders that they had done. So Peter speaks, 1766 02:08:20.760 --> 02:08:25.560 Barnabas and Paul speak, Everyone's silent, and then after everyone 1767 02:08:25.680 --> 02:08:32.239 was silent, James answers. So the focal point of this section, 1768 02:08:34.199 --> 02:08:37.319 just because Peter begins talking, that doesn't prove anything. How 1769 02:08:37.319 --> 02:08:42.239 does that prove Vatican won? In fact, if I'm going 1770 02:08:42.319 --> 02:08:48.319 to argue from the reverence, it's everyone becoming silent when 1771 02:08:48.439 --> 02:08:55.880 James speaks. James has the final say, not Peter. They didn't. 1772 02:08:55.920 --> 02:08:59.199 He just admit that James was presiding. Why would James 1773 02:08:59.199 --> 02:09:03.840 preside when Peter has the superiority. It should be Peter's presiding. 1774 02:09:06.680 --> 02:09:21.920 So James has the final say so right here, and 1775 02:09:21.960 --> 02:09:24.319 then we get the Jerusalem Decree, where in the Jerusalem 1776 02:09:24.319 --> 02:09:30.119 Decree do you see anything like the unilateral papal decrees 1777 02:09:30.760 --> 02:09:34.000 that you see in the later eras of the church. 1778 02:09:43.960 --> 02:09:48.079 Why didn't the letter just say Peter spoken cases closed? 1779 02:09:48.359 --> 02:09:52.319 Remember they argue Peter has spoken through Leo Rome has 1780 02:09:52.359 --> 02:09:56.239 spoken cases closed. Why didn't they just say Peter has 1781 02:09:56.279 --> 02:10:03.880 spoken cases closed? What's even the need for a synod? Anyway? 1782 02:10:04.760 --> 02:10:11.399 We're not infected with Peterson when we begin to quote 1783 02:10:11.439 --> 02:10:15.319 passages from the Bible and then quote commentary on the 1784 02:10:15.359 --> 02:10:16.920 way the fathers viewed those passages. 1785 02:10:17.399 --> 02:10:25.000 And yeah, but if you read Denny's book Papalism, he 1786 02:10:25.079 --> 02:10:28.600 has an entire chapter pointing out that the majority interpretation 1787 02:10:28.760 --> 02:10:32.600 of Matthew sixteen is not that it's Peter. So once again, 1788 02:10:32.840 --> 02:10:39.079 the majority, the consensus, which is largely I think there's 1789 02:10:39.119 --> 02:10:42.399 like sixteen or so that think that it's Peter himself. 1790 02:10:42.880 --> 02:10:46.800 The majority is no, it's Peter's confession or it's something else, right, 1791 02:10:47.159 --> 02:10:51.680 Peter's faith in that case, Well, we don't care about 1792 02:10:51.680 --> 02:10:56.399 the majority. You see, so selectively quote mining again and 1793 02:10:56.520 --> 02:11:00.079 ignoring the contrary or the majority is precisely what they do. 1794 02:11:00.479 --> 02:11:04.600 It's important because we see a kernel of how that 1795 02:11:04.800 --> 02:11:05.880 leadership was. 1796 02:11:06.800 --> 02:11:10.520 Oh so you see it's not actually Vatican One, which 1797 02:11:10.600 --> 02:11:13.199 was supposed to be there from the outset, believed by all. 1798 02:11:13.279 --> 02:11:16.199 It's now the seeds and the kernels once again. So 1799 02:11:16.319 --> 02:11:19.479 when there's not evidence, it's the seeds. But at the 1800 02:11:19.520 --> 02:11:21.960 same time they say it was always there. It was 1801 02:11:22.039 --> 02:11:30.279 clear Henry twenty eight seventeen. Side note, new monastic lore dropped. 1802 02:11:30.279 --> 02:11:31.840 I don't know what that means. Harry Supponis went o. 1803 02:11:32.039 --> 02:11:35.359 The philly Oquay downs downgrades the Holy Spirit, and it 1804 02:11:35.439 --> 02:11:38.079 encourages all these papal heresies. Yes, not an accident that 1805 02:11:38.159 --> 02:11:41.920 once the Phillioquay becomes more and more accepted in the West. 1806 02:11:42.800 --> 02:11:46.640 It's it's the same thing with the rise of the papacy, right, 1807 02:11:46.680 --> 02:11:51.439 the papacy coming to power is exactly when they begin 1808 02:11:51.720 --> 02:11:55.560 their rejection of the Father as the sole archae in 1809 02:11:55.600 --> 02:11:59.760 the Godhead. Papal supremacy is a demonic usurping of the 1810 02:11:59.800 --> 02:12:04.439 world of spirit. Yeah, exactly, Charard's book on that. That's 1811 02:12:04.439 --> 02:12:07.000 really good church papacy schism. That's pretty much the whole 1812 02:12:07.239 --> 02:12:14.960 argument for the most part. Let's talk God, please search 1813 02:12:15.039 --> 02:12:16.840 up and I'm gonna I'm not gonna play those clips. 1814 02:12:17.199 --> 02:12:22.000 Joshua Ward five dollars. William wants to debate the ingredients 1815 02:12:22.039 --> 02:12:25.279 of your male enhancement pills. They say that you sell 1816 02:12:25.479 --> 02:12:29.439 fake pills. They're not male enhancement pills. They're pills that 1817 02:12:29.520 --> 02:12:32.840 relate to adaptogens and workouts, so it has nothing to 1818 02:12:32.840 --> 02:12:36.800 do with mail enhancement. They're not fake pills. You can 1819 02:12:39.239 --> 02:12:43.640 go get them and see for yourself. I mean, it's 1820 02:12:43.680 --> 02:12:46.359 a multimillion dollar company. How would it be fake pills. 1821 02:12:46.439 --> 02:12:50.520 John Milner thirteen ninety nine, Canadian Christ is God Jordaan 1822 02:12:50.640 --> 02:12:59.960 five dollars. Brother Sam said, God is my witness Jay. 1823 02:13:00.000 --> 02:13:03.039 He is calling me a bald inward in my studio. 1824 02:13:03.239 --> 02:13:06.640 The clips are all over Twitty's that's fake, man. I mean, 1825 02:13:06.680 --> 02:13:11.399 I'm sitting in here livestream with you. That's all fake. 1826 02:13:12.039 --> 02:13:15.600 Sisiphost Canadian ten dollars. Set up a debate on a 1827 02:13:15.640 --> 02:13:17.399 neutral platform. I'll try to get him to come to 1828 02:13:17.399 --> 02:13:24.640 a neutral platform tonight. You're betting on all Brick not 1829 02:13:24.720 --> 02:13:28.000 being available. Yeah sure, yeah, I'm scared, even though I 1830 02:13:28.039 --> 02:13:30.960 showed you at the beginning of the stream five years 1831 02:13:30.960 --> 02:13:32.760 ago where I tried to set up debates with William 1832 02:13:32.800 --> 02:13:34.880 Albreck and he would just postpone it for six months. 1833 02:13:34.880 --> 02:13:40.039 Every time I do it, Cosmicgoulo five dollars. I realized 1834 02:13:40.039 --> 02:13:41.760 that William was not very good when he did a 1835 02:13:41.840 --> 02:13:45.119 video on Purgatory and Palomas and Descythius. He tried to 1836 02:13:45.119 --> 02:13:49.279 say the Orthodox don't teach what Palamas says. Okay, whatever, 1837 02:13:50.199 --> 02:13:54.399 that's crazy, glitchy two dollars. I just got here chat 1838 02:13:54.520 --> 02:13:56.560 yes or no. I don't know what that means. Common 1839 02:13:56.560 --> 02:14:00.840 sense ten dollars. Jane Ever said that we need to 1840 02:14:00.840 --> 02:14:04.680 debate right now. Yeah, it just says. I'll show you 1841 02:14:04.720 --> 02:14:17.479 what it says. I sent him two different messages. I'll 1842 02:14:17.479 --> 02:14:32.000 show you what I sent him on here. So here's 1843 02:14:32.039 --> 02:14:40.399 this meltdown material here, what's this? This is two different 1844 02:14:40.439 --> 02:14:44.119 messages here. One says, how are Protestants going to be 1845 02:14:44.119 --> 02:14:46.479 better off defenders of the Trinity than the Orthodox? So 1846 02:14:46.520 --> 02:14:49.359 that's the initial thing that I took issue with. Then 1847 02:14:49.359 --> 02:14:51.279 I said, how about you and Albert come debate me 1848 02:14:51.319 --> 02:14:54.720 on the energies and the triad okay? And then I 1849 02:14:54.760 --> 02:14:58.079 sent him a letter to thirty four Basil and then 1850 02:14:58.119 --> 02:15:01.079 I said we can have a friendly exchange. Whoa, Oh 1851 02:15:01.119 --> 02:15:04.680 my gosh, I'm unreal. And I sent the exact same 1852 02:15:04.720 --> 02:15:08.159 thing on Twitter, except for maybe a couple words different. 1853 02:15:09.800 --> 02:15:12.760 So that's what called That's what caused today's flip up. 1854 02:15:20.840 --> 02:15:24.880 When he called in, they played dumb William ran and 1855 02:15:24.960 --> 02:15:29.079 accused Jay of calling only because he left. Try to 1856 02:15:29.159 --> 02:15:34.279 keep up. I holify, I heal a five five dollars, 1857 02:15:34.439 --> 02:15:37.720 Eric five dollars. This is what happens when Sham Chamun 1858 02:15:37.840 --> 02:15:44.159 lets the hul comania run wild himself. Brother mL hated 1859 02:15:44.199 --> 02:15:50.880 Kummunism three dollars. At forty nine minutes of his stream, 1860 02:15:51.000 --> 02:15:53.119 you can see the real reason why he's mad. Go 1861 02:15:53.199 --> 02:15:57.640 watch it before he deletes it. I don't know. I'm 1862 02:15:57.640 --> 02:15:59.840 not gonna I don't I don't even follow or keep 1863 02:15:59.880 --> 02:16:02.399 up with this stuff like these people are they think 1864 02:16:02.439 --> 02:16:04.680 that I'm like following and watching all their stuff, Like 1865 02:16:05.760 --> 02:16:08.479 I watched Sam Schmun here and there, mainly clips. I 1866 02:16:08.479 --> 02:16:11.479 don't follow his live streams. I was interested in today's 1867 02:16:11.520 --> 02:16:14.680 live stream because he was talking about Protestant and Catholic 1868 02:16:14.760 --> 02:16:19.399 doctrine views of the Trinity. Models of the Trinity. Roland 1869 02:16:19.800 --> 02:16:21.920 William is ready to debate. Are you ready? I mean 1870 02:16:22.039 --> 02:16:25.079 I thought we're gonna do it tonight. Forty two attack 1871 02:16:25.119 --> 02:16:27.439 three dollars. Favorite part of tonight. All of us Catholics 1872 02:16:27.479 --> 02:16:30.880 in the chrispal chat want Andrew to moderate. I thought 1873 02:16:30.920 --> 02:16:35.559 we were going to do it. Beny Canadian two dollars 1874 02:16:35.840 --> 02:16:39.399 time stamp. He is live. This must be old. Look 1875 02:16:39.399 --> 02:16:41.799 you miond go love your cell p oh dollars? Am 1876 02:16:41.799 --> 02:16:46.200 I am? I own opinion. The only thing that the 1877 02:16:46.360 --> 02:16:50.719 ORB could be is an uncreated energy. It's from God. Yeah, 1878 02:16:50.760 --> 02:16:54.559 I'm sure that's what it is. If at Jay versus 1879 02:16:54.559 --> 02:16:57.319 All Break debate happens, it must be blood sports. Well 1880 02:16:58.520 --> 02:17:01.719 I don't. That guy is the worst. And I say 1881 02:17:01.799 --> 02:17:03.319 the reason I say is the worst first of all 1882 02:17:03.360 --> 02:17:05.120 is that you see the tear of the apologetics we 1883 02:17:05.159 --> 02:17:10.440 get here right. It's just literal, low tier quote minding. 1884 02:17:10.440 --> 02:17:17.760 That's about all it is. And the reason he's such 1885 02:17:17.799 --> 02:17:23.280 a nasty individual is that years ago on a live stream, 1886 02:17:24.520 --> 02:17:26.280 he started saying this stuff like he was going to 1887 02:17:26.319 --> 02:17:28.760 fight me in real life, and I clipped it. I 1888 02:17:28.799 --> 02:17:31.639 have the screenshots. And then he says, I never said that. 1889 02:17:31.719 --> 02:17:33.200 I never said that. I mean he was saying it 1890 02:17:33.200 --> 02:17:34.600 in the chat. He's like he wants to fight in 1891 02:17:34.639 --> 02:17:37.600 real life, which is so ridiculous because we were talking 1892 02:17:37.600 --> 02:17:42.040 about doing a debate, because again in twenty nineteen and 1893 02:17:42.120 --> 02:17:44.959 twenty twenty, I tried to schedule debates with him and 1894 02:17:45.000 --> 02:17:47.159 he would just postpone it for six months every time. 1895 02:17:47.920 --> 02:17:51.639 So here we are five years later, six years later, 1896 02:17:52.079 --> 02:17:55.120 and he's claiming that I'm scared to debate him. It's 1897 02:17:55.120 --> 02:17:58.360 the same point that UBI made, is that UBI also 1898 02:17:58.520 --> 02:18:02.280 tried to work out with All Bricked, and you just 1899 02:18:02.360 --> 02:18:06.600 get this, you know, tap dancing play that like it's 1900 02:18:06.680 --> 02:18:10.159 like I don't have time to run through this game 1901 02:18:10.200 --> 02:18:13.600 with you, like we've already tried to do this. If 1902 02:18:13.639 --> 02:18:14.840 you go back to the beginning of the stream, the 1903 02:18:14.840 --> 02:18:16.680 first thing I talked about, I showed you his old 1904 02:18:16.719 --> 02:18:18.959 messages where he would say, oh, I need six months, 1905 02:18:19.000 --> 02:18:21.040 so give me another six months, give me another six months, 1906 02:18:21.680 --> 02:18:23.479 and it just got old. I just finally moved on. 1907 02:18:27.040 --> 02:18:30.079 And then I called Albert one day because I had 1908 02:18:30.159 --> 02:18:33.440 I used to have his phone number, and he went 1909 02:18:33.520 --> 02:18:35.680 melted down at all. He lost it on me and 1910 02:18:35.719 --> 02:18:39.159 said that there is no discord. This is like twenty 1911 02:18:39.479 --> 02:18:42.600 twenty somewhere in there in twenty twenty one, so that 1912 02:18:43.079 --> 02:18:45.040 I don't have a discord. It's all made up I 1913 02:18:45.079 --> 02:18:48.000 paid bots to go in there. There is no no 1914 02:18:48.040 --> 02:18:50.680 one is converting to Orthodoxy. This literally, this is what 1915 02:18:50.719 --> 02:18:53.959 he said. And then he gave my phone number to Lofton, 1916 02:18:54.719 --> 02:18:57.719 and then Lofton sent me a fake lawsuit threat. So 1917 02:18:57.799 --> 02:18:59.760 this is what we're dealing with. This is the people 1918 02:18:59.760 --> 02:19:04.120 that were talking about here. Juliana Talant five dollars, sir, 1919 02:19:04.239 --> 02:19:06.879 thank you for all that you've done with your lectures, 1920 02:19:06.879 --> 02:19:09.719 presentations and debates. When I ask you some questions about 1921 02:19:10.280 --> 02:19:14.239 they're troubling me. PS. Great victory for the devil for 1922 02:19:14.319 --> 02:19:18.000 the trash of Sam Shamun. It's so sad. Common sense 1923 02:19:18.040 --> 02:19:21.200 one hundred dollars. You handled this very well. You're often 1924 02:19:21.200 --> 02:19:23.799 accused of being mean, but I've lost respect for Shamun. 1925 02:19:24.079 --> 02:19:30.600 These are all bogus accusations. Fwintes admits that his debate 1926 02:19:30.639 --> 02:19:34.399 with you is the worst, but seeing this, he did 1927 02:19:34.639 --> 02:19:37.680 the most with what he had. Stay strong, be humble, 1928 02:19:38.040 --> 02:19:39.680 God bless you and your family. Well, thank you for 1929 02:19:39.719 --> 02:19:42.840 that generous super chat. I appreciate that. SS twenty one 1930 02:19:42.879 --> 02:19:47.079 five dollars. See what John Christism says about Acts fifteen. 1931 02:19:47.440 --> 02:19:51.719 Ibarra has a paper on it that basically refutes himself. 1932 02:19:52.120 --> 02:19:55.600 That's interesting. Everybody should look up chrystalstom on Acts fifteen. 1933 02:19:55.639 --> 02:19:58.040 I don't have my church father's set here at this house, 1934 02:19:58.680 --> 02:20:02.319 so I can't look it up. But if you if 1935 02:20:02.319 --> 02:20:04.079 there's a link on new admit you guys can send 1936 02:20:04.079 --> 02:20:08.559 it to me. Store ninety six five dollars. Shout out 1937 02:20:08.559 --> 02:20:11.920 to my dog block Party Vintage who is now forts 1938 02:20:11.920 --> 02:20:17.079 certified Carrie s MW nine three dollars if possible, not 1939 02:20:17.120 --> 02:20:20.920 too much. Could you summarize your position on what we're 1940 02:20:21.360 --> 02:20:24.680 we're critiquing the papers position all night tonight v N 1941 02:20:24.799 --> 02:20:27.879 two dollars. You are a genius, big fan. Keep it up, 1942 02:20:27.920 --> 02:20:28.840 thanks man, I appreciate that. 1943 02:20:29.360 --> 02:20:32.200 And of course it becomes much more fleshed out through 1944 02:20:32.239 --> 02:20:35.040 church history. And you bring up a great example there 1945 02:20:35.079 --> 02:20:38.120 with the striking down of the canon. Yeah, that is 1946 02:20:38.200 --> 02:20:42.799 a tough one to overcome there, because somebody that did 1947 02:20:42.840 --> 02:20:46.639 not believe they had that authority vested in them from 1948 02:20:46.799 --> 02:20:50.840 Christ would not have even had the audacity. 1949 02:20:51.440 --> 02:20:54.920 It was such a thing. But the do it, well, 1950 02:20:54.920 --> 02:20:59.200 that's a false equivalence because that's asking me a non sequitor. 1951 02:20:59.280 --> 02:21:04.879 Because you just heard Richard Price say that the Eastern 1952 02:21:04.920 --> 02:21:09.200 Bishops didn't accept everything that the Roman bishops did because 1953 02:21:09.200 --> 02:21:12.559 they didn't recognize Roman jurisdiction in the East. So the 1954 02:21:12.639 --> 02:21:15.479 fact that someone doesn't accept something that doesn't prove that 1955 02:21:15.520 --> 02:21:19.159 they have papal supremacy. I mean, if the Eastern bishops 1956 02:21:19.159 --> 02:21:21.520 are rejecting something that the West is doing, does that 1957 02:21:21.559 --> 02:21:25.440 mean the Eastern bishops have papal supremacy? Does rejecting something 1958 02:21:25.520 --> 02:21:29.399 prove papal supremacy? It just means that Calcidon that Leo 1959 02:21:29.559 --> 02:21:33.520 didn't accept Constantinople one. But guess what the East did. 1960 02:21:34.120 --> 02:21:37.440 So at the time of Leo, you have differing numbers 1961 02:21:38.239 --> 02:21:41.680 and views of what the councils have been. Right. If 1962 02:21:41.719 --> 02:21:46.120 you're in the East, you believe that there's nicea constantinople 1963 02:21:46.159 --> 02:21:51.319 I ephesis and now Chalcedon. If you're Leo, you believe 1964 02:21:51.360 --> 02:21:57.399 in Nicea ephesis Calcedon. So they don't even accept the 1965 02:21:57.440 --> 02:22:00.680 same councils. Now, guess what who in up being right 1966 02:22:00.719 --> 02:22:06.760 in this situation. Rome a few centuries after Leo accepts 1967 02:22:06.799 --> 02:22:08.760 constant the number one, So the East was right the 1968 02:22:08.920 --> 02:22:13.760 entire time. This all refuses what they're saying. Let's move 1969 02:22:13.760 --> 02:22:16.639 on to their coverage of Francis. Let's see what they 1970 02:22:16.680 --> 02:22:17.520 say about frank. 1971 02:22:19.440 --> 02:22:22.120 It just seems like that there, you know, there's a 1972 02:22:22.159 --> 02:22:25.040 point of disconnect there now. So in other words, they're 1973 02:22:25.040 --> 02:22:27.959 their hang up is that? Okay? I can see this historically, 1974 02:22:28.040 --> 02:22:29.959 but I just don't know about Paul Francis. 1975 02:22:31.120 --> 02:22:33.079 The number one thing I would say is I have 1976 02:22:33.200 --> 02:22:36.200 never been the biggest fan of Pulp Francis ever, But 1977 02:22:36.280 --> 02:22:39.680 he is the Vicar of Christ. Sure, here's a valid pope. 1978 02:22:40.040 --> 02:22:44.200 Here's the pope. And in his defense, Michael, I think 1979 02:22:44.200 --> 02:22:47.319 he gets ripped out of context so much. I really 1980 02:22:47.399 --> 02:22:47.760 really do. 1981 02:23:28.399 --> 02:23:34.159 Fifteen sixty eight gay priests are punished with death in 1982 02:23:34.200 --> 02:23:41.959 this document. Now you can bless couples of the same 1983 02:23:42.000 --> 02:23:45.479 sex in the Roman Catholic Church. This is the Vatican, 1984 02:23:46.239 --> 02:23:53.360 this is Francis's fiducia. Supplicans and the Romancalolics say, well, 1985 02:23:53.360 --> 02:23:55.559 but up at the top it says that you can't 1986 02:23:55.600 --> 02:23:58.319 bless the gay marriage and the bubble. It doesn't matter 1987 02:23:58.360 --> 02:24:00.799 what it says up at the top. All that means 1988 02:24:00.840 --> 02:24:07.680 is that the document contradicts. There you go, So what 1989 02:24:07.719 --> 02:24:09.280 was the point. I'm starting to get tired because it's 1990 02:24:09.360 --> 02:24:14.200 late at night, right, So what was the point of this, Francis, 1991 02:24:14.239 --> 02:24:16.479 I'm showing you another contradiction that disproves them. 1992 02:24:16.559 --> 02:24:16.680 Right. 1993 02:24:16.799 --> 02:24:23.879 Francis says, the Gospel is contrary to death penalty. Right, 1994 02:24:27.840 --> 02:24:30.760 I'm showing you how crazy and contradictor of the Roman 1995 02:24:30.799 --> 02:24:37.120 Catholic system is. Pope Francis Vatican News. The death penalty 1996 02:24:37.159 --> 02:24:41.319 is inadmissible. It is contrary to the Gospel. Here he says, 1997 02:24:41.360 --> 02:24:48.840 it's contrary to nature. Right. The CDC Congregation of the 1998 02:24:48.879 --> 02:24:52.280 Douction fe has made changes to the death penalty. It 1999 02:24:52.360 --> 02:24:56.360 is no longer admissible. But wait a minute. In fifteen 2000 02:24:56.920 --> 02:25:05.280 sixty eight under Paya, that's the fifth you were punished 2001 02:25:05.319 --> 02:25:08.799 with death if you were a Skittles priest. Do you 2002 02:25:08.840 --> 02:25:17.079 see that punishable by death in fifteen sixty eight. Now 2003 02:25:17.239 --> 02:25:21.520 fast forward to Fiducia supplicons of Francis two years ago. 2004 02:25:21.680 --> 02:25:25.239 The blessings of the same sex couples is now within 2005 02:25:25.280 --> 02:25:29.159 the horizon of the Roman Catholic Church. I'm not talking 2006 02:25:29.200 --> 02:25:34.239 about marriage, but you know what it says here as couples, 2007 02:25:34.280 --> 02:25:41.680 they can be blessed. It's just not marriage. Skittle's priest 2008 02:25:41.760 --> 02:25:47.079 put the death fifteen sixty eight. Now the death monality 2009 02:25:47.120 --> 02:25:49.959 is the country of the Gospel and skittles. Couples can 2010 02:25:49.959 --> 02:25:53.239 be blessed. So here's what Sam Chamoun and William Albreck 2011 02:25:53.360 --> 02:26:01.840 want to convert you to. There you go, I'm mute, dude, 2012 02:26:01.879 --> 02:26:04.120 Thank you, Jay, You're muted, Eric Vigilant Data Loss and 2013 02:26:04.200 --> 02:26:08.120 Jordan Johnson it's because I'm getting tired, so I'm getting 2014 02:26:08.159 --> 02:26:13.719 a little sleepy here, Noel, I'm Mirandez two dollars. God 2015 02:26:13.719 --> 02:26:17.440 wants I'm muted, Logos Logic three dollars. Is this your 2016 02:26:17.479 --> 02:26:20.239 first time on the internet? Si two dollars. I'm mute. 2017 02:26:20.280 --> 02:26:22.079 See maybe I should just unmute because you guys send 2018 02:26:22.120 --> 02:26:30.479 super chats when I'm muted. Ultra violence two dollars. I 2019 02:26:30.479 --> 02:26:33.479 always thought Shimun had a weird, unwarranted level of confidence, 2020 02:26:33.520 --> 02:26:35.760 but I couldn't put my finger on it. Clearly has issues. 2021 02:26:36.040 --> 02:26:39.040 He can meet you like some Dawa Nube bizarre behavior, 2022 02:26:39.559 --> 02:26:46.079 Windy Torrents, I'm mute. Jordan Johnson five dollars. I will 2023 02:26:46.079 --> 02:26:48.479 fight Albrick. He reminds me of a father in law. 2024 02:26:48.559 --> 02:26:56.079 I'm six four, two forty. There's no need to fight 2025 02:26:56.079 --> 02:26:58.040 anybody who just had to refute these stupid positions. 2026 02:26:58.040 --> 02:27:01.760 Now on the other side to be gives. 2027 02:27:01.840 --> 02:27:03.319 So I want to keep I want to remind you guys, 2028 02:27:04.120 --> 02:27:08.520 who's the person who asked to debate the theological subject matter? 2029 02:27:08.719 --> 02:27:08.799 Me? 2030 02:27:09.360 --> 02:27:12.479 Who's the person that did a stream about the theological 2031 02:27:12.520 --> 02:27:13.159 subject matter? 2032 02:27:13.280 --> 02:27:13.360 Me? 2033 02:27:14.000 --> 02:27:17.079 Did anyone else do that? Or did they just lose 2034 02:27:17.120 --> 02:27:18.280 their minds and melt down? 2035 02:27:20.920 --> 02:27:23.079 Do I think he can be more precise? Sometimes I do, 2036 02:27:23.440 --> 02:27:26.120 I truly do. But I don't think Pope France this 2037 02:27:26.159 --> 02:27:28.840 is heretical. I think I know he's the pulp. He's 2038 02:27:28.840 --> 02:27:32.760 about successor Saint Peter uh, and I think that there's 2039 02:27:32.799 --> 02:27:33.760 a lot of good he does. 2040 02:27:34.079 --> 02:27:37.959 Okay, so a lot of platitudes. Where was any actual 2041 02:27:38.000 --> 02:27:45.559 defense of any controversial statements or explanations? So he this 2042 02:27:45.639 --> 02:27:49.200 is presuming questions for Catholics. Right, So every one of 2043 02:27:49.239 --> 02:27:53.319 these little sections is what about that? I can one? 2044 02:27:53.760 --> 02:27:55.520 What about the head of the church? Right, it's all 2045 02:27:55.559 --> 02:27:59.639 sort of questions. What about Pope Francis? Does he have 2046 02:27:59.680 --> 02:28:03.879 an a? He just states his own psychological belief, his 2047 02:28:03.959 --> 02:28:09.440 own self reporting that he believes Francis is the pope. Okay, 2048 02:28:09.520 --> 02:28:12.040 well that's great, but how is that an argument? 2049 02:28:12.639 --> 02:28:16.159 See? I truly do. I really do think first off, 2050 02:28:16.879 --> 02:28:17.920 we villainize him