Speaker 1: Before we get started, although I do believe i'd beer
Speaker 1: remiss if I didn't say that. Possibly, for the first
Speaker 1: time in my life, New York, I love you, but
Speaker 1: you're not bringing me down.
Speaker 2: You're not bringing me down.
Speaker 1: This is the first time, the first and only time,
Speaker 1: you have not brought me down. I hate hearing about
Speaker 1: you all the time. I understand why we do. I
Speaker 1: get it. Doesn't mean I want to hear it, but
Speaker 1: in this case I do. Hilarious Zorehn Mom, Donnie. When
Speaker 1: the New York City mayoral primary last night, he is
Speaker 1: a Democratic Socialist self described a member and leader within
Speaker 1: the DSA there and he won. He beat Andrew Cmo
Speaker 1: last night in the primary. This is, you know, against
Speaker 1: all of the media backing and everything like that. People
Speaker 1: just didn't.
Speaker 2: Care socialist man. Maybe they look like a clown.
Speaker 1: They said, you're among billionaire mayors. Now, clown because he
Speaker 1: lost to a Muslim. Uh in a in a in
Speaker 1: a city that in a city that twenty four years
Speaker 1: ago was under a terrorist atack with a Muslim, which
Speaker 1: is really cool, Like, it's really fucking cool that, in
Speaker 1: spite of media pressure, uh, every politician in the world
Speaker 1: in this country and uh, you know, and and popular,
Speaker 1: not popular, but in sentiment racist and xenophobic sentiment against Muslims.
Speaker 1: They did this. And uh, I'm not going to say
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody should be rose rosy eyed about
Speaker 1: what this is because the history of.
Speaker 2: Probably kill him, but socialist mayors.
Speaker 1: Is not good. You either end up being a shill
Speaker 1: and assimilated or the other thing, which is not great.
Speaker 1: But uh, I do this is good, Like it's good.
Speaker 1: The worst people in the world are mad about them,
Speaker 1: about this, all of them.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Democratic leadership is pissed, Republicans pissed, Zionists pissed. Everybody that
Speaker 1: you dislike on a daily basis is angry. Uh so, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's nice to revel in that. Just take a minute,
Speaker 1: breathe it in, breathe in the their annoyance. Shot and
Speaker 1: fraud is good. People feel fantastic to just sometimes be like, yes,
Speaker 1: go fuck yourself.
Speaker 2: I have a cute I got a cute Zorn story.
Speaker 2: So a friend of the show, Mattie Lubchansky was who
Speaker 2: knows him, She was at this event like it was
Speaker 2: like a trans for Zorin event in New York and
Speaker 2: someone asked him like, oh, are you and your wife
Speaker 2: monogamous and he said yes, and they all boot him.
Speaker 2: I was like, it's a beautiful culture, beautiful.
Speaker 1: People, wonderful, it's good news. I can't believe I'm saying this.
Speaker 1: Good job, DSA, that you did real good work here. Now,
Speaker 1: if you guys could stop with the whole just let
Speaker 1: us in, just let us be dollar store Democrats, it
Speaker 1: would be really cool. But yeah, seriously, great job to
Speaker 1: Democratic Socialists of America, great job to other people of
Speaker 1: New York. Again, Zoran has issues that I think he
Speaker 1: can work on on certain things, and he needs to
Speaker 1: be pushed on those very hard, just like you push anyone.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, Muslim so Muslim kid kid like.
Speaker 1: In political terms, socialist won the mayor primary and that's awesome.
Speaker 1: Also sucks, but he's gonna have to face Quomo again
Speaker 1: because Cuomo runs his own party in New York, so
Speaker 1: he is on the ballot, the general ballot regardless. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I ain't never been a democracy, folks, not a real one.
Speaker 1: But hey, you take the dubs or you can get him.
Speaker 1: We did it. That's amazing. I don't think we have
Speaker 1: time to get into the whole Iran thing. But yeah, Trump, Iran,
Speaker 1: maybe ceasefire. Israel seems pissed. I don't know. Yesterday it
Speaker 1: was a good day to be online. By the time
Speaker 1: this comes out, this might be seeming outdated, but we
Speaker 1: recorded this on the morning of June twenty fifth, so.
Speaker 2: They hadn't assassinated him yet, or the.
Speaker 1: Afternoon nuclear European Yeah, or you know, if the things
Speaker 1: in with Iran have it reheated. But yeah, good jobs oroon,
Speaker 1: good job New York. Awesome, that's it. Awesome. Revel in
Speaker 1: the worst people alive being mad about this. Oh, they're
Speaker 1: so mad, they're reveling there insanity, revel in the fact
Speaker 1: that they're like Zionist dog whistles, uh no longer really
Speaker 1: seem to work on people, especially no one under like
Speaker 1: forty five or fifty. But like, yeah, good job. Also
Speaker 1: humorously shout out to white guys overwhelmingly voted in favor
Speaker 1: of Zoron, Like.
Speaker 2: I mean, I love Dude's Rock Rock.
Speaker 1: I mean the Zoron's election should put a nail in
Speaker 1: the coffin of like the way that people do identity
Speaker 1: politics in polling, Like, oh, if we just get this group,
Speaker 1: you cannot get a monolithic group of people. That's not
Speaker 1: how it works, especially not in this country. It's too broad, diverse,
Speaker 1: too weird does it work. So instead, you should just
Speaker 1: have a good message and people will come to it.
Speaker 1: People will and then be like, oh, well he didn't
Speaker 1: reach out to working class people. I don't know. It
Speaker 1: seemed like some working class people were pretty fine with him.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's.
Speaker 2: I think my favorite thing that I saw because he
Speaker 2: like a homeboy obviously, like he's aimed at me, so
Speaker 2: he was like in my face a lot, obviously. But
Speaker 2: my favorite thing that I uh, a person that I
Speaker 2: saw him with was motherfucking Stavvy. I was like, not
Speaker 2: the Covid and Stavvy baby endorsement. I was like, come on, Starros,
Speaker 2: get out here.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, the endorsements of him, just like walking across
Speaker 1: Manhattan are just so funny because people are just like, hey,
Speaker 1: it's that guy. I've seen him, I know him, my light.
Speaker 2: You know, you're just like, wait, what Cynthia Nixon from
Speaker 2: Sex and the City Miranda Shoot indorsed. You know, yeah,
Speaker 2: like it's a baby, It's it's happening. You know.
Speaker 1: Bernie and AOC took their sweet ass fucking time, but
Speaker 1: you know you got there in the end, I guess
Speaker 1: it's uh, folks, it's good news. For once, we got
Speaker 1: good news, and we're gonna say no bad news at
Speaker 1: the start here good news. Let's just get into it. Hello,
Speaker 1: and welcome back to We're Not So Different podcast about
Speaker 1: how we've always been idiots and sometimes maybe, just maybe
Speaker 1: a good thing will happen. Folks, We're back with the
Speaker 1: monthly mail bag for July. As we all know, patrons
Speaker 1: who subscribe for just five dollars a month picture on
Speaker 1: dot com slash wnsd podcast ask us questions that we
Speaker 1: will answer on the show, and we're endeavoring to catch
Speaker 1: up by doing these mailbag episodes every month until we do.
Speaker 1: We're going to keep the intro pretty short and sweet
Speaker 1: this time. But if you can't get enough of your
Speaker 1: two favorite co hosts, we've got great news because we
Speaker 1: are everywhere right now. Obviously, there's a limited there's the
Speaker 1: limited podcast series Welcome to the Crusades, the First Crusade
Speaker 1: that we did with the American Prestige Fellas. It's an
Speaker 1: eleven episode deep dive into the First Crusade and you
Speaker 1: can listen to the first two episodes for free on
Speaker 1: the normal podcast feed, and then purchase the remaining nine
Speaker 1: episodes for just ten dollars. Welcome to the Crusades dot com.
Speaker 1: If the price has not yet gone up to ten
Speaker 1: dollars and is still eight dollars when this episode releases,
Speaker 1: well then huzzaf for you. Yeah, so check that out.
Speaker 1: We're extremely proud of it. But we've also been promoting
Speaker 1: the series all over recently. Eleanor and I appear together
Speaker 1: on new or very recent episodes of Western Kabuki, The
Speaker 1: Worst of All Possible Worlds, ten k Post, and Masters
Speaker 1: of Our Domain. Additionally, you can hear Eleanor and Derek
Speaker 1: Davison talking it up on a recent Chapo Premium episode,
Speaker 1: and you can hear me talking about and or in
Speaker 1: real world fascism on Delete your account. Check that out after.
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, let's open some male question from
Speaker 1: Ali Kant. Did Vikings know how to do throat singing?
Speaker 1: Or is this horrible chud do? Is this horrible chuds
Speaker 1: doing revisionism again and appropriating it from Mongols? Well, I
Speaker 1: will say before we start, I think we should we
Speaker 1: should do definition of what throat singing is. Throats singing
Speaker 1: is a very common practice across the world, like monks,
Speaker 1: websh like Buddhist monks, certain Christian monks with their chanting
Speaker 1: and and toning and stuff like that. It occurs in Japan. Uh,
Speaker 1: the Inuit have a version of it in Canada, and
Speaker 1: I yeah, I'm sure Vikings did do it, because it's
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not every you know, like everybody can
Speaker 1: like or not everybody, but most people can kind of
Speaker 1: throat sing like you try to like inch down further
Speaker 1: into your throat, you know, and you try to do that.
Speaker 1: But like so, so I'm sure they did because it's
Speaker 1: not uncommon, you know, Russia, China, Mongolia, you know, Italy.
Speaker 1: The whole thing. The thing that makes Mongolian throat singing
Speaker 1: different is that they do it in a specific way,
Speaker 1: which yeah, they get you. You vibrate your vocal cords
Speaker 1: in such a way that you create two tones. So
Speaker 1: if you remember the movie Doune and they have the
Speaker 1: throat singing throughout, uh, you know, in the beginning and
Speaker 1: it keeps popping up throughout, that is a version of
Speaker 1: Mongolian throat singing. And it's not just Mongolanes, it's Turkic
Speaker 1: people's uh, Mongolic tribes, not just the Mongols themselves, and
Speaker 1: even uh and even some other others in West Asia,
Speaker 1: but or East Asia other but yeah, they vibrate their
Speaker 1: vocal cords to make two different sounds. And that's why
Speaker 1: it sounds so different and so remarkable because it because
Speaker 1: it is because it's it's a different way than a
Speaker 1: lot of other throat singing is done, which you know
Speaker 1: is still great. You know, people love the Gregroy chants
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and that is oftentimes a version
Speaker 1: of throat singing, but you know, yeah, the Mongols, uh,
Speaker 1: they just do it really cool. And I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm sure, I'm sure there are people who teach themselves
Speaker 1: because I you know, I've seen you know, I've seen
Speaker 1: videos of random, random mass white people doing it.
Speaker 2: But oh yeah, my my my brother, who's a noted
Speaker 2: quirked up white boy, taught himself to do it. So yeah,
Speaker 2: shut shut out, shout out to Nate Yanaga. Yeah, homeboy
Speaker 2: himself to do it because we were we were raised
Speaker 2: by hippies, so and what like when you grow up
Speaker 2: Badriyana just weird shit happens sometimes, so yeah, like Nate
Speaker 2: can do it. It took him a long time to
Speaker 2: figure it out, but he did figure it out. I
Speaker 2: want to shout out one of my parents hippie ass
Speaker 2: CDs that spawned all this. There's a really accomplished throat singer,
Speaker 2: Kongar all On Dar who is a leading tuban throat singer,
Speaker 2: and he's got an excellent album that is called Back
Speaker 2: Tuva Future.
Speaker 1: Fuck.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, it's like very in the kind of like
Speaker 2: deep forest vein of things. If you want to hear
Speaker 2: like some fucking kick ass throat singing, but they're like
Speaker 2: trying to make it modern. Check that shit out. It whips.
Speaker 2: But like, I guess what I have to say about
Speaker 2: this is yeah, like you're exactly right, Luke. They probably
Speaker 2: did do some form of throat singing, but it didn't
Speaker 2: sound like the Mongolian kind, right, It's most likely.
Speaker 1: I mean, if we have no record of it.
Speaker 2: We don't have a record of it.
Speaker 1: It's something you would think they would.
Speaker 2: It's so hard they didn't stop doing it. That's that's
Speaker 2: this is my argument, because fucking the tuban version goes
Speaker 2: so fucking hard, there's absolutely no way that shit's gonna
Speaker 2: fall out of practice. And when you already have cultures
Speaker 2: that do throat singing, which we certainly see from like
Speaker 2: other monastic cultures, then they would probably pick it up.
Speaker 2: So the stealing valor is the dual tone thing. That's
Speaker 2: what that's what's.
Speaker 1: Yeah uh and yeah, Ellenor said it too. It's it
Speaker 1: should be called tubin throat singing. I think mungol and
Speaker 1: throat singing is too exclusionary to all of the number
Speaker 1: of groups that do it. But yeah, it's really cool.
Speaker 1: Go check it out. You can hear some on the
Speaker 1: Dude soundtrack. You can, I mean go type in throat
Speaker 1: singing in you know, Apple music or Wikipedia, and I
Speaker 1: guarantee some of it will come up and you can
Speaker 1: hear the lovely like two tone voices that they do.
Speaker 1: It's it's really fantastic. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The Future apparently has a four point seven star rating
Speaker 2: out of five on Amazon, just saying in case you're
Speaker 2: going to go check that shit out, but you can
Speaker 2: also apparently check out the whole thing on YouTube. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know, get zouited blaze a fat one for
Speaker 2: me brackets legally and check that shit out for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ollie, thank you very much for the question. Next,
Speaker 1: we got one from I would whack five hundred miles.
Speaker 1: He says, I would love to hear about Baltic Sea
Speaker 1: piracy that plagued Hanseiotic League traders, and yeah that eleanor
Speaker 1: I'm given to believe that piracy was a problem on
Speaker 1: the high seas for uh, I mean basically until until
Speaker 1: very recently, and I mean it's still there, we just
Speaker 1: don't really talk about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like yoho ho bitch okay, like first of all,
Speaker 2: shot that down, but yeah, a really big problem both
Speaker 2: in the and also in the Black Sea. Huge problems
Speaker 2: with piracy in the Black Sea because they're such incredibly
Speaker 2: important trade routes and really good stuff is going through there.
Speaker 2: So yeah, we we know a lot. And it's also
Speaker 2: one of these things that's really difficult because in the
Speaker 2: Baltic Sea, what we we know about it can get
Speaker 2: very confused because there is a tendency, especially in the
Speaker 2: medieval period, whenever someone wrongs you, if you're in the
Speaker 2: Baltic area, for them to be like Estonians, you know,
Speaker 2: or like whatever, because they're like they're going to go
Speaker 2: find the non Christians and they're gonna blame them, right,
Speaker 2: and you know, ordinarily, if you're in the Nordic countries,
Speaker 2: they're going to be like, oh, yeah, i'll tell you
Speaker 2: what this is. Like, it's going to be the fault
Speaker 2: of like, oh gosh, their name is excusing me right now,
Speaker 2: you know, hurting reindeer, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Oh, but that's from the Avatar movies. Sorry, No, they
Speaker 1: are the They are beautiful nomadic.
Speaker 2: People, beautiful nomadic people who we should.
Speaker 1: Be left alone.
Speaker 2: Leave them, leave them alone, leave them alone.
Speaker 1: They don't want to be bothered. If they do, they'll come,
Speaker 1: let you know.
Speaker 2: So if something bad happens on land, they're often like Sami,
Speaker 2: although still there is also some blaming Sammi for like
Speaker 2: shipwrecks and things like that, because they say that they're that,
Speaker 2: like they like can do wind magic and things like this.
Speaker 1: Oh that's great, yeah, normal.
Speaker 2: But so they'll be all like Latvians or you know, Estodians, right,
Speaker 2: because they'll be like, it's those damn pagans or whatever,
Speaker 2: and probably it's just some guys, you know, But to
Speaker 2: a certain extent, they dressed it up like that because
Speaker 2: the idea is, you know, Christian on Christian violence is bad,
Speaker 2: so in which case it's got to be like it's
Speaker 2: got to be some like pagans air quotes who are
Speaker 2: down doing this shit. So we do see rather a
Speaker 2: lot of it, and it does fuck with the Hansa
Speaker 2: And one of the things that the Hansa Ports was
Speaker 2: kind of supposed to be doing in theories sort of
Speaker 2: having patrol boats a little bit, like I mean, one
Speaker 2: of the things that you should kind of be doing
Speaker 2: is contributing to like policing as it were, the seas.
Speaker 2: But sea's big, so kind of difficult to do that.
Speaker 2: Very occasionally pirates get caught, not very often you will
Speaker 2: be killed, Like I can't stress that enough, but yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's incredibly common. You've got to you know, as
Speaker 2: it's as common as it was like you know in
Speaker 2: the seventeenth century, eighteenth century. You know, it's just that
Speaker 2: the seas are big places and it's very hard to police.
Speaker 2: Even now, it's very difficult for us to police piracy.
Speaker 2: So which is why you get danger pay if you
Speaker 2: go through the Red Sea. And so if it's like
Speaker 2: if you're if you're doing like the Gulf of Aiden
Speaker 2: kind of run and that sort of a thing on ships,
Speaker 2: you get extra pay, which I know because I worked
Speaker 2: for a while in like an adjacent to the shipping
Speaker 2: business because my life is weird. But yeah, so you
Speaker 2: get that in if you do that.
Speaker 1: Run yeah, And I mean, like, if you've ever seen
Speaker 1: a map of Europe and the way that the ways
Speaker 1: that that the Hanseatic League traveled, uh, you will know
Speaker 1: that you know the part of Denmark where you go
Speaker 1: north of Germany, north of Hamburg, and you know that
Speaker 1: little bit that juts out towards Scandinavia, and if you
Speaker 1: go around that to the east, there are a lot
Speaker 1: of little islands and stuff, and that place is just
Speaker 1: pirate fucking city. Like you can lie in wait behind
Speaker 1: any number of inlets and coves and and you can
Speaker 1: you can take people from the land.
Speaker 2: In some cases, these motherfuckers got fjords. These motherfuckers got fjords.
Speaker 1: Like it's there there anywhere, any any place that you
Speaker 1: could possibly do it, both in the sea, and I
Speaker 1: mean then the the rivers that they took as well,
Speaker 1: they took you know, they did rivery trading down into
Speaker 1: Germany and and uh in Poland and of course down
Speaker 1: to Novogrod in Russia. And you know, yeah, it's there's
Speaker 1: a lot of it. There's a lot of piracy, and
Speaker 1: it's not really like the Golden age of piracy yet
Speaker 1: that would happen, uh mostly after the uh the Hansiatic
Speaker 1: League was was done and also be in like the
Speaker 1: Atlantic and the Mediterranean. But yeah, like you got a cog.
Speaker 1: The cogs are good ships. They're sturdy as hell. They
Speaker 1: can take a beating. But like if you it doesn't
Speaker 1: even it doesn't matter if you have you know, like
Speaker 1: a lookout ship or anything like if the prevailing winds
Speaker 1: are pushing you in one direction and you know, or
Speaker 1: they they ground you or something. I mean, good fucking luck.
Speaker 1: You better hope you're somewhere where people care. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I would wack five hundred miles. Thank you very much
Speaker 1: for the question. Always love to talk the Hanseatic League
Speaker 1: and their goofy wool trade. Question. Next question from dog God,
Speaker 1: how often did kings actually wear their crowns? Medieval art
Speaker 1: always shows kings with crowns regardless of what they're doing.
Speaker 1: But Eleanor's sorry about William the First wearing his crown
Speaker 1: in the Ruins of York as a display of dominance
Speaker 1: made it sound like it wasn't a normal practice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. So they're very expensive, Yes, you know,
Speaker 2: so it is not far off of now where you know,
Speaker 2: like here, the king will bring out the crown if
Speaker 2: it's like a big ceremonial occasion, like if he's meeting
Speaker 2: other heads of state, if he's got like a big
Speaker 2: religious thing happening. That's when you do it. You don't
Speaker 2: ordinarily like you're not wearing a crown to a party,
Speaker 2: like you're not wearing it like and you're certainly not
Speaker 2: going to like travel in it because you know what
Speaker 2: happens if you get jump or something like that. It
Speaker 2: can be really difficult. So for example, uh, when Charles
Speaker 2: the fourth, just to make it all about progue, as
Speaker 2: per usual, when Charles the fourth takes the Czech crown,
Speaker 2: he remakes the Czech crown to look like they thought
Speaker 2: the crown of Saint Ventislaus had looked, and then or
Speaker 2: and then he gets himself crowned with it, you know,
Speaker 2: a big thing. Look, oh look at me, I'm just
Speaker 2: like Saint Pislaus. And then he has the crown stay
Speaker 2: on the bust of Saint Ventislaus in Prague Cathedral, and
Speaker 2: so basically it's doing what he wants it to do.
Speaker 2: They're like, that is the crown ordinarily it stays with Ventroslas,
Speaker 2: so like it creates like this religious connection between between
Speaker 2: the crown and him and Saint Ventislaus, so you know,
Speaker 2: very important, but a myth making there and so yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the that is the kind of thing. Now. The
Speaker 2: reason we see crowns on kings and art is so
Speaker 2: that you can identify them. Yeah, it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: it's the equivalent of just like having a little thing
Speaker 2: that has their name on it, like for people who
Speaker 2: can't speak. Right, It's like if you see a crown
Speaker 2: on someone in a painting, then you know that they're
Speaker 2: a king, right, And so they're not really wearing them around.
Speaker 2: Like if you met another king, you'd probably wear one
Speaker 2: mm hm, you know you'd be like, well, like you know,
Speaker 2: but if you're meeting them in battle, no, because you
Speaker 2: don't want to like lose the crown. What like what
Speaker 2: happens if you know, all these things come together. But
Speaker 2: if you're like having some bing wetting and everybody's there,
Speaker 2: everyone's gonna like flex their crowns. It's like like that
Speaker 2: sort of thing. But they are for special occasions, is
Speaker 2: what they're for. Yeah, And they're uncomfortable, they're heavy.
Speaker 1: Dude, you know, God, Yeah, heavy is the head that
Speaker 1: where's a crown is a literal thing. Metal is not inexpensive.
Speaker 1: So unless you're doing the late Byzantine crown where they
Speaker 1: made it out of leather and beaded glass because the
Speaker 1: Venetians took it all, it's heavy. They're very heavy. H yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's really cool. Uh fucking crowns are great. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: dog God, thank you very much for the question. Next,
Speaker 1: we got one from Mattera Sesino, who says, I know
Speaker 1: mass was definitely on Sundays and specific holy days, but
Speaker 1: would there be mass every day that people weren't generally
Speaker 1: expected to attend? I do mean in a local parish church.
Speaker 1: I'm not bothered about what occurred in a monastery.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it just depends on whether or not your
Speaker 2: priest is good. There should yeah, there should be mass
Speaker 2: every day. There should be a mass everage. And indeed,
Speaker 2: in most most churches there is mass every day, irregardless
Speaker 2: of like what's going on, people just usually don't attend it.
Speaker 2: And so for example, the church that was attached to
Speaker 2: the Catholic school that I went to growing up, which
Speaker 2: is like near my parents' house, it has recently been
Speaker 2: downgraded to a chapel. Yeah, because they don't have they
Speaker 2: don't have enough Catholics anymore in the hood and so
Speaker 2: and that basically means I think that they just have
Speaker 2: Mass on Sundays now, So it's like they don't have
Speaker 2: a priest that lives there, and like a priest comes
Speaker 2: in every Sunday and we'll do a Sunday Mass. But
Speaker 2: a church is going to have two on Sunday, usually
Speaker 2: one on Saturday, like one every day of the week,
Speaker 2: and like one at five o'clock on Saturday. Is kind
Speaker 2: of like the usual way of doing things. You might
Speaker 2: have a really shit priest though, and this is this
Speaker 2: is super super common, like it's very common, and it's
Speaker 2: something that gets complained about all the time in reform literature,
Speaker 2: is that people will be given a prebend, like you know,
Speaker 2: you're given a really rich church and which gets you
Speaker 2: a good income, and then you live in the city
Speaker 2: and you never fucking go there, and so then those
Speaker 2: people are basically left without a priest. And that's something
Speaker 2: that people complain about all the time. So in theory, yeah,
Speaker 2: once a day maybe if you go to really big
Speaker 2: parish church, like it doesn't have to just be like, uh,
Speaker 2: this isn't just cathedrals. But you know, often big parish churches,
Speaker 2: for example, the ones that will have smaller altars around
Speaker 2: the side, priests will be saying multiple masses day there
Speaker 2: because they're gonna be going around to each of the
Speaker 2: little altars and doing a mass because the families leave
Speaker 2: money for that for perpetual masses. When perpetual masses are
Speaker 2: set for the soul, then that means that like once
Speaker 2: a day they're gonna get a mass at like the
Speaker 2: tiny little altar. And now it's gonna be really fast
Speaker 2: because there isn't gonna be people that are taking communion
Speaker 2: or whatever. They're just gonna be like no no, no,
Speaker 2: no no no no no Jesus wept no no no yeah, wow, damn,
Speaker 2: Like that's crazy, Like they're probably not gonna do a sermon,
Speaker 2: but they'll do the mass, right, And then that is
Speaker 2: kind of like for the expation of souls. So it
Speaker 2: could be in larger parishes if they're rich enough, you
Speaker 2: could be having like ten masses a day in theory
Speaker 2: at which people can join in if they want. Like,
Speaker 2: if you want to go to that mass, you absolutely
Speaker 2: can as a regular person. But also, you know, regular
Speaker 2: people are killing the fields and shit could be on
Speaker 2: the tilling game. But you know, if you're older, like
Speaker 2: say you're seventy years old, like you're not gonna be
Speaker 2: tilling every day, and like grandma might go to mass
Speaker 2: every day. So it's just kind of like a different
Speaker 2: way of doing things.
Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah, just guy out there just like saying mass
Speaker 1: like like one hundred times a day. He's just so tired.
Speaker 1: He's like, you guys know how it goes. Why don't
Speaker 1: you come up here and talk about it. Yeah, Matta Rossino,
Speaker 1: thank you very much for the question. Uh. Next, we've
Speaker 1: got one from MG in your face. So it's been
Speaker 1: documented that I'm a Renfair fan, but there are but
Speaker 1: there are consom festivals that are more focused on sci fi. Lastly,
Speaker 1: possible future. We all know medieval people had had that
Speaker 1: reverence for the Classics, But was there ever a imagine
Speaker 1: the year two thousand ball in Italy whatever? And I
Speaker 1: don't know for sure, but I am willing to bet
Speaker 1: if you could somehow go back and pull every Christian
Speaker 1: in Europe at the time that something on the order
Speaker 1: of ninety plus percent of them would not believe that
Speaker 1: the world would still be here at the year two thousand. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that they thought the Lord was coming back
Speaker 1: every other week, like like he's just he's coming back soon. Guys.
Speaker 1: It's like in the world's still gonna be here in
Speaker 1: eight hundred years. I don't know about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like when they do futurism, it's usually talking about
Speaker 2: the apocalypse, and they're like they're like, because that's going
Speaker 2: to happen in the future, right, It's definitely, it's definitely
Speaker 2: gonna happen. I mean, so, yeah, they kind of one
Speaker 2: thing that they often talk about, Like if they're talking
Speaker 2: about the future, it's usually about like a continuing decline
Speaker 2: of morals or alternatively, you occasionally get people looking forward
Speaker 2: to the thousand year Reign of Peace or ten thousand
Speaker 2: year Reign of Peace, which will happen when the Last
Speaker 2: World Emperor takes back over after the defeat of Anti
Speaker 2: Christ maybe, right, because like some people some people think
Speaker 2: that like he's like an optional extra, like the Last
Speaker 2: World Emperor, like he's.
Speaker 1: A guy, he's here, yeah, and Elias and yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: and and.
Speaker 2: Because yeah episode exactly exactly, okay, right, because like, you're
Speaker 2: not gonna lie this. They're going to come back. Anti
Speaker 2: Christ is gonna get so mad about that, and he
Speaker 2: is going to kill them, and then he is going
Speaker 2: to leave their bodies out to decompose for three days.
Speaker 2: And then he's going to try to prove a point
Speaker 2: by ascending bodily into heaven on the Mount of Olives,
Speaker 2: just to prove that Christ isn't special. And then he's
Speaker 2: gonna be struck down by the spirit of Christ's mouth
Speaker 2: and die. And then and then the last world Emperor
Speaker 2: is going to come back and be like, see, you
Speaker 2: were worshiping Anti Christ, but actually I'm the good guy.
Speaker 2: And then you're gonna get a ten thousand year reign
Speaker 2: of peace. And people will talk about how like that's
Speaker 2: gonna fucking whip and they can't wait for the ten
Speaker 2: thousand year reign of peace. But not everybody necessarily like
Speaker 2: takes the track that that is going to happen, ye,
Speaker 2: But yeah they don't. It's just like their idea of
Speaker 2: the future is really different. Because you know, one thing
Speaker 2: that you've got to understand about us is we're like
Speaker 2: technology pilled, right, Like the way that we think about
Speaker 2: everything in our culture is that there are going to
Speaker 2: be other technologies which are going to allow you to
Speaker 2: do X, y Z, And sometimes you get things that
Speaker 2: like that. You know, like people will talk about flying
Speaker 2: machines for example, like that's something they're like, wow, what
Speaker 2: if we could figure that out?
Speaker 1: You know, some of them you've been tried to do it.
Speaker 1: There's a guy that tried the original parachute who jumped
Speaker 1: off of a tall building in Italy and it doesn't work.
Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, you know, people are trying things,
Speaker 2: you know, so but also they just kind of don't.
Speaker 2: They don't think about society and technological terms, whereas we do.
Speaker 2: You know, for us, progress is necessarily linked directly to tech,
Speaker 2: whereas for them it's much more religious in nature. So
Speaker 2: for them, advancing any kind of discussion about history is
Speaker 2: going to be about religion. It isn't going to be
Speaker 2: about technology. So it's it's a different way of looking
Speaker 2: at things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, conceptualizing the far future is like the
Speaker 1: way that we do. It appears to be a very
Speaker 1: recent phenomenon outside of apocalyptic literature now, you know, like
Speaker 1: most biblical stories about the end times, I mean they
Speaker 1: are like in the future, X will happen, and you know,
Speaker 1: in some of them it's gonna be a long time
Speaker 1: from now, and some of them it's coming. You know,
Speaker 1: two days could come at any time. But like that,
Speaker 1: outside of that, futurism is not like a thing until now,
Speaker 1: maybe the seventeenth century. I mean, maybe there's a couple
Speaker 1: earlier ones that I'm that I'm not thinking of, but like,
Speaker 1: you know, we didn't get we didn't get sci fi
Speaker 1: until Mary Shelley and then we did, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: something like that. And we didn't get you know, fantasy
Speaker 1: as we understand until like the middle eighteen hundre. So
Speaker 1: you know, it's, uh, it's a new thing. I don't
Speaker 1: I guarantee you most of those people would have been like,
Speaker 1: the world's not gonna be here at the year two thousand.
Speaker 1: That's insane, Like God's coming out like he told us,
Speaker 1: you know, like and especially the early Christians, they thought
Speaker 1: that shit was happening like the next day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that they would be really sad.
Speaker 1: Yes, actually, oh God, yes they.
Speaker 2: Would be like, oh man, I thought that we would
Speaker 2: be done with us by now. So I think that
Speaker 2: they would be kind of sad about the whole.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'd be done with the shitty mortal coil. Yeah
Speaker 1: if junior face, thank you very much for the question.
Speaker 1: Next we got one from Quixotic, which is our Passages
Speaker 1: of Arms real or a Victoria Victorian invention? If they
Speaker 1: were real? Why? And yeah, pasta to arms? I think
Speaker 1: they were real. They appear to have been real. And
Speaker 1: if you're wondering what a pasta arm is, if you
Speaker 1: remember Monty Python and the Holy Grail and black Knight
Speaker 1: who's blocking the bridge until he demands satisfaction of his honor.
Speaker 1: That's a very extreme version of a past to arms.
Speaker 1: It was basically, I would stand in front of a bridge,
Speaker 1: would be like, if you are a knight and you
Speaker 1: want to pass this, you have to fight me or
Speaker 1: or lose your honor. And you know, yeah, and why
Speaker 1: well eleanor Yeah, that's real. Why did a bunch of
Speaker 1: fucking meattheads challenge each other to cross bridges like this?
Speaker 1: Like common bridge trolls?
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, So this begins in the fourteenth century, like
Speaker 2: all good things, and so it's big in the fourteenth century,
Speaker 2: it's big in the fifteenth century. And the way that
Speaker 2: we think about it is that we think what they
Speaker 2: were attempting to do is differentiate themselves like nobles, in particular,
Speaker 2: differentiating themselves from a common military right, because what happens
Speaker 2: also in the fourteenth and fifteenth century is increasingly people
Speaker 2: start killing each other during war. So you know, the
Speaker 2: Hundred Years War really kind of changes things. You know,
Speaker 2: as I always say up because to that point, it's
Speaker 2: kind of like rich guy tag you have a war
Speaker 2: where you attempt to kidnap people, but then in the
Speaker 2: fourteenth century they start trying to kill people and everyone's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I was supposed to do that, right,
Speaker 2: So at that point in time you also kind of
Speaker 2: have the conceptions of tournaments and things like that really change. So,
Speaker 2: for example, it's during this period that we see move
Speaker 2: away from the melee being the major kind of tournament
Speaker 2: to jousting being the major kind of tournament. So what
Speaker 2: they're trying to do is be like, I'm not like
Speaker 2: you people, right, Like we are this the very specialized
Speaker 2: kind of nobility, and this is what we do. So
Speaker 2: like we're not down there in the muck with you people,
Speaker 2: and we don't really want to like kill people, but
Speaker 2: we want to engage in this worthy sort of combat,
Speaker 2: and so you know, it absolutely happened. We've got tons
Speaker 2: and tons of records for this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like thousands, actual thousands of records of this happened.
Speaker 2: And so it's like one of these things where much
Speaker 2: in the way that the tournaments initially with melee is
Speaker 2: what you would do is you would like nail a
Speaker 2: thing on a door and be like, come at me, bitch,
Speaker 2: Like on this day, I'll be taking all comers. It
Speaker 2: was like that. So you know, this is considered like
Speaker 2: a game essentially. It's a it's a form of incredibly
Speaker 2: stylized combat. But you know, you may as well be
Speaker 2: watching American gladiators essentially.
Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah, it's it happens all over Western Europe, France, Spain,
Speaker 1: the Lowlands up north, it's you know, it's all over there.
Speaker 1: And like these are so widespread that there were strategies
Speaker 1: for dealing with them, like strategy ideas or even booklets
Speaker 1: about you know, this is how you deal with this,
Speaker 1: is how you get around this, and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and yeah, you can there there are a couple I
Speaker 1: can't a couple of articles. I can't read either of
Speaker 1: them because I don't speak Spanish or French, but one
Speaker 1: of them by Udell Blanc lestrettagis de la peru Don's
Speaker 1: Les des vortissement che cheval risk Sorry ninety seven and
Speaker 1: then uh Pedro Rodriguez Delina from nineteen thirty, a critical
Speaker 1: annotated edition of El Paso on Russo de suero de Quinones. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so those have a lot in there if you want
Speaker 1: to check those out and can read those languages. But yeah,
Speaker 1: they're very real. They are a kind of cool legacy
Speaker 1: of you know, the Chevalric tradition. And also, I mean
Speaker 1: meat heads with CT you're gonna make up dumb games.
Speaker 1: It's not like we've ever stopped doing that, no kidding.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Next, we got one question from Pearl River. I
Speaker 1: swear there was an episode where you discuss pipes like
Speaker 1: sewage pipes, not smoking pipes. I'm asking because I recently
Speaker 1: dug up a nearly two hundred year old wooden pipe,
Speaker 1: and now I'm wondering what medieval people use for pipes.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming bricks, but also they didn't have many things
Speaker 1: that needed piping, so you know, pipe layers back them
Speaker 1: are probably not as busy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they often use wood, is the answer to this. So,
Speaker 2: for example, if you've got a bath house or something
Speaker 2: where there is piped water, a lot of the time
Speaker 2: it's going to be wooden. You can use brick, yes,
Speaker 2: in certain circumstances, especially in places where they're basically keeping
Speaker 2: the Roman the systems going that that is often what
Speaker 2: gets used and so as a result, we don't have
Speaker 2: a lot of evidence for it because it decays. So
Speaker 2: what we generally have instead is kind of like the
Speaker 2: impression for where we can we can find where their
Speaker 2: pipes have rotted. But you know, it's a fairly good system.
Speaker 2: You know, it works pretty well. I mean, yeah, you
Speaker 2: got to replace her or whatever, but you know a
Speaker 2: lot of times that is fundamentally a private the thing
Speaker 2: that you're doing there isn't going to be in most
Speaker 2: places a kind of municipal system for piping. So it's
Speaker 2: going to be just like whatever it is you want
Speaker 2: to do. So as a rich enough person to do this,
Speaker 2: you know, like you can just replace wood whenever you
Speaker 2: need to replace what That'll be fine. But yeah, it would,
Speaker 2: is the answer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they they did that. There were some metal pipes,
Speaker 1: but that was in the richest, the richest places.
Speaker 2: Of Venice like this.
Speaker 1: Capital cities, you know, throne rooms things like that, if
Speaker 1: you ever hear and maybe one day we'll talk about them.
Speaker 1: About medieval automatons, which were like things that were animated
Speaker 1: by like gust of wind and stuff like that, and
Speaker 1: they use those, and I mean there were like for
Speaker 1: a while, the Byzantine throne had like a weird like
Speaker 1: perk cussive system under it where they could raise the
Speaker 1: thrown up by piping in hot wind into like a
Speaker 1: bellows and it would push it up so the so
Speaker 1: the emperor and empress would seem like they were on
Speaker 1: an even higher keelan than they normally were. And like yeah,
Speaker 1: so uh yeah, it mostly gonna be wood brick, yeah,
Speaker 1: unless you're really rich in which and then you could
Speaker 1: like you have your yeah yeah, pipe fitter doing whatever.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Pearl River, thank you for the question. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: medieval pipes not man, there's gonna be a lot of
Speaker 1: ship getting in your water if it's going through brick.
Speaker 1: That's just picking up so much, so much small debris,
Speaker 1: which is incidentally why the oceans are salty, Like they
Speaker 1: pick up minor, minor bits of salt and deposit it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: from the Rocks. So anyway, Uh, next we got one
Speaker 1: from may Day. Can you speak on the lulla al
Speaker 1: slash hoodsite connection, eleanor why was Yan who's so enamored
Speaker 1: of one mister John Wickliffe. Ah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's that they have places in which they differentiate.
Speaker 2: But it is absolutely true that there's this huge connection
Speaker 2: and it is all fostered by the marriage of Anne
Speaker 2: of Bohemia over here to Richard. So basically it creates
Speaker 2: more back and forth in between the Czechs and England
Speaker 2: than had happened previously, because it was just like, why
Speaker 2: would we talk to English people?
Speaker 1: English people? Why would we talk to Czech people?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it's like, you know, the wolve's coming over
Speaker 2: here anyway, I don't like. I mean like English people
Speaker 2: will one hundred percent take the silver from Bohemia. Check
Speaker 2: people will one hundred percent take the wool from England.
Speaker 2: But like, other than that, no one really cares. But
Speaker 2: one of the big things that they get the English
Speaker 2: get along with Anne because Anne doesn't have to provide
Speaker 2: a dowry because it's such a down grade to marry
Speaker 2: an English king. They but they do get unfettered access
Speaker 2: to trade in Bohemia. So you have a lot more
Speaker 2: English traders that begin to make the journey all the
Speaker 2: way to Bohemia, and they bring with them ideas in
Speaker 2: the way that one always does. And the law Lords
Speaker 2: are rather the big thing at the time, aren't they.
Speaker 2: So you know, the law Lords, for those who don't know,
Speaker 2: are led by John Wycliffe who is up at Oxford,
Speaker 2: and he's got a lot of problems with you people,
Speaker 2: you know, standard standard fucking I hate the church pope
Speaker 2: as a fuck kill them all, you know. Fourteen thirteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not bad.
Speaker 2: He's got some interesting ideas. So for example, he doesn't
Speaker 2: believe in transubstantiation, that's right. He believes in consubstantiation. So
Speaker 2: he thinks that the host and wine contain both the
Speaker 2: body and blood at the the book, like they contained
Speaker 2: that and their essential breadness at the same time.
Speaker 1: It's symbolic, it's actual, like it's not the actual the
Speaker 1: priest isn't you know?
Speaker 2: Yeah, blood well kind of a little bit. It's like
Speaker 2: it can take on both natures at the same time.
Speaker 2: It's really.
Speaker 1: His his was that detail? Okay? Cool?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like so it does both. It's really weird.
Speaker 2: He's he's like, maybe we should do some more things
Speaker 2: in English. There is we now believe he didn't actually
Speaker 2: translate the Bible into English. We think other people did
Speaker 2: and they called it and yeah, exactly all you do.
Speaker 2: And you know, he's constantly stepping on toes because you know,
Speaker 2: he's doing the normal ship, which is like church shouldn't
Speaker 2: have money, et cetera. And you know, like he's really
Speaker 2: into ordinary people having uh, having more opportunities to take community. Okay,
Speaker 2: so he does not. He manages to die before getting
Speaker 2: declared a heretic, although he gets like pulled in front
Speaker 2: of the church a lot. He's kind of like a
Speaker 2: millic in that description where it's like he's always pissing
Speaker 2: people off, but they never quite get him right. And
Speaker 2: much like Milach as well, like they kill a couple
Speaker 2: of his boys and like eventually La Larderie it like
Speaker 2: becomes a heresy, but by then it's already got to
Speaker 2: Prague and it's really big in the university and these
Speaker 2: little bitches are nerding out, and in particular on who's
Speaker 2: is nerding out and he's the head of the theology
Speaker 2: faculty and he really likes this shit, and they're like
Speaker 2: you need to burn all of this's you need to
Speaker 2: burn all of white Cliff's teachings. And he's like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I translated these ones, so it's not the same thing, right,
Speaker 2: you know, like this is my this is my translation,
Speaker 2: so I don't know what the fuck you're talking about,
Speaker 2: like you know, and he'll do shit like that, and
Speaker 2: it eventually becomes synonymous with in the university. They're like
Speaker 2: four schools in the university, which is like the basically
Speaker 2: they're divided in between the nations quote unquote that are
Speaker 2: supposed to be there. It's like the Germans, the Czechs,
Speaker 2: the Italians, and the polls and the checks are like
Speaker 2: we love this shit. We're all like lollards now and
Speaker 2: everyone else is like what and they're like, oh, also
Speaker 2: we hate you. Get the fuck out of here. And
Speaker 2: they basically like drive everybody off because they're they're like
Speaker 2: specifically intolology. And so this is kind of what gets
Speaker 2: in trouble. It's his refusal to denounce Wycliffe. It's really
Speaker 2: the thing that gets him brought, for example, before the
Speaker 2: Council of Basel. So yeah, it's it's all incredibly interlinked.
Speaker 2: Host takes a lot of why Cliff's ideas and expands
Speaker 2: on them. So he's the one who's really like all
Speaker 2: about like the people should get to have bread and wine.
Speaker 2: He actually does translate the Bible into check. He does
Speaker 2: a lot more talking about vernacular stuff than Why Cliff did,
Speaker 2: although why Cliffe does some. But so they don't agree
Speaker 2: on every single thing. But like hussies himself as an
Speaker 2: extension of Wycliffe and going a little bit further. So, Yeah, basically,
Speaker 2: if your name was John at the time, odds are
Speaker 2: he might he might end up being he might end
Speaker 2: up being a heretic.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's Yan Yan, It's wide open. What's
Speaker 1: the French version.
Speaker 2: Or Jean Jean, Yeah, Jehan Sean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, I don't have much more. Just
Speaker 1: two things. First, very funny that uh jan Hoo's did
Speaker 1: get he he did go to a woke university and
Speaker 1: it turned him woke.
Speaker 2: And did it did?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then this was reciprocated later when some of
Speaker 1: the earliest Germanic and Slavic reformers were kicked out of
Speaker 1: the Holy Roman Empire and one of the places they
Speaker 1: went was dear old England, And yeah, that's how you
Speaker 1: get Puritans and the Church of England and all that
Speaker 1: jazz yep may day. Thank you very much for the question. Next,
Speaker 1: we got one from Philip. What type of weapon would
Speaker 1: you prefer if you were going into a battle as
Speaker 1: a levee melee sword for hire? Is a levee slash
Speaker 1: melee slash sword for hire? Okay?
Speaker 2: Uh melee? Okay, So Levy, the.
Speaker 1: Longest halbird you've got, I want the longest halberd. I
Speaker 1: want that thing to be so long. I'm like tipping
Speaker 1: over that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I like a spear, don't I.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you stay over there, Yeah, you go, just
Speaker 2: stay away from me a poke poke. Yeah, I think
Speaker 2: that the spears is quite good. But I would just
Speaker 2: not to say a lands I want a spear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, I mean, and if I if I've
Speaker 1: got one, like I mean, if I just have to
Speaker 1: have something like to look cool, give me his way, Hander,
Speaker 1: give me that thing. Oh yeah, like fucking cool?
Speaker 2: Is it's about flexing that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, if I'm if I'm not there to look good,
Speaker 1: if I if I need to show up in armor
Speaker 1: and and look like a g I need this way Hander, Okay, okay.
Speaker 2: Started laughing drinking water and I was like, I'm gonna mute,
Speaker 2: but I was like, also, don't spit water all.
Speaker 1: So you were choking. Oh my god. I was so worried.
Speaker 1: I was like, holy shit, you can't talk. And then
Speaker 1: as you're muted, and I was like, oh, okay, well.
Speaker 2: Then like this biture, just try out.
Speaker 1: Hold up this m f spitting. Yeah, it's uh, give
Speaker 1: me this way hander. Like it's really unfortunate that, like
Speaker 1: the big fantasy swords don't really exist because they seem
Speaker 1: so cool. But like, yeah, give me, give me this
Speaker 1: way hand er. I'm gonna go out. I'm gonna die anyway.
Speaker 1: If I'm gonna die, I might as well have like
Speaker 1: a cool looking sword with a weird like thing in
Speaker 1: the middle of the blade. Yeah, just give it to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: or or if I'm trying to be or if I'm
Speaker 1: trying to be saved, I want the longest pole arm
Speaker 1: slash halberd slash spear that you got, and I want
Speaker 1: to be far away from people. But yeah, in.
Speaker 2: The melee though, Yeah, in the melee, I think in
Speaker 2: the melee you have to you would need a short
Speaker 2: like even the zueight hander would probably be too long
Speaker 2: for the melee. If you, yeah, you want to be
Speaker 2: able to get close to motherfuckerss.
Speaker 1: I think you like an axe, maybe a mace, like
Speaker 1: an actual mace, actually the metal the metal handle with
Speaker 1: the all on the end of it. Yeah, like an
Speaker 1: actual mace that like that would be insane because like,
Speaker 1: if you make contact with that, you're breaking someone's bones
Speaker 1: at the bare minimum.
Speaker 2: Even if you can ring the bell real good at
Speaker 2: the thing, if.
Speaker 1: You hit all armor, they're still good. Like if you
Speaker 1: hit someone like in the back, the lower lower in
Speaker 1: their back or whatever, they're gonna be pissing blood for
Speaker 1: like three weeks because you just fuck bruise their kidneys
Speaker 1: to S.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's the way to go. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think that is. And in the melee, there's gonna be
Speaker 2: a lot less room for like fluidity, so you just
Speaker 2: want to be like bish bash I think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, give me, give me, give me the shield, hold
Speaker 1: up the shield, put it down, bank shield, bank, et cetera. Yeah, Philip,
Speaker 1: thank you very much for the question. As you can tell,
Speaker 1: I would be no good in a fight because I'm
Speaker 1: a giant bitch, but uh I would try. They would
Speaker 1: kill me. But I would try anyway we got. Last
Speaker 1: one we got today is from Jia Hi Luke and
Speaker 1: doctor Eleanor. Your podcast is give me a greater appreciation
Speaker 1: for the difference between the Middle Ages and the Early Modern.
Speaker 1: I started to notice when I'm when supposed medieval fantasy
Speaker 1: series is actually early modern, like those Wheel of Time
Speaker 1: motherfuckers having printing presses, oil lamps, and spring driven clocks.
Speaker 1: Are there any fantasies they stand out as being particularly
Speaker 1: medieval or not medieval, early modern, et cetera. I have heard,
Speaker 1: I'll give you I'll give you a serious answer, Firse.
Speaker 1: I've heard that the Malazon series, the Book of Malason
Speaker 1: series is number one, very good and also has a
Speaker 1: lot of very realistic medieval style combat. Now, I mean,
Speaker 1: clearly it's going to have fantasy elements draped over if
Speaker 1: there's going to be magic and stuff. But he's very
Speaker 1: big into sieges, very big into like digging, tunneling under
Speaker 1: walls to collapse them, you know, all stuff that happened
Speaker 1: in the Middle Ages. So I've heard that is good. Elenor,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm having trouble thinking of any that like
Speaker 1: really are on point. But I also personally don't think
Speaker 1: that's a big issue, but do you have I.
Speaker 2: Mean, the thing is like, actually annoyingly, the answer really
Speaker 2: is this mother, you know, you know exactly what I'm
Speaker 2: going to say, is our good friend Germ. Like the
Speaker 2: Song of Ice and Fire books are like the closest
Speaker 2: I I he does. He's got away with it.
Speaker 1: He does a good job. Like and I think if
Speaker 1: you look at it, like whether you like George R. Martin,
Speaker 1: whether you like House of the Dragon, Game of Thrones
Speaker 1: or the A Song of Ice and Fire series or not,
Speaker 1: I think if you look at that like it is
Speaker 1: like that is how you should do fantasy. Now, to
Speaker 1: be clear, there was a time when he was like,
Speaker 1: this is the most historically accurate medieval fantasy series around,
Speaker 1: which may technically be true, but you still shouldn't say
Speaker 1: that because it gives and he has thankfully stopped doing
Speaker 1: that a lot recently. But like, if you think about it,
Speaker 1: like it incorporates a whole lot of medieval stuff, and
Speaker 1: I mean obviously uses tropes like feudalism, or constantly talk
Speaker 1: about and like they have the pyramidial feudal structure that
Speaker 1: Eleanor likes to joke. You know that the pyramid has
Speaker 1: king on top. They have that, but like it has
Speaker 1: like realistic elements. It's really not moving into the early
Speaker 1: modern too much. The Siage engines look pretty standard, you know,
Speaker 1: trebuche uh you know, I mean, of course they have
Speaker 1: you know, like the huge battering ram like grand type things.
Speaker 1: But I mean, like that's not to me, that's not
Speaker 1: an inaccuracy. That's artistic license. Like that's what makes it fantasy,
Speaker 1: because if it's all just regular sie ginges and stuff,
Speaker 1: I might as well just be reading about you know,
Speaker 1: I might as well just be reading about Siege of Baghdad,
Speaker 1: Siege Fantioc or whatever.
Speaker 2: I guess one that I really like a fantasy series
Speaker 2: that I'm really into, which is ongoing, and I think
Speaker 2: it kind of straddles nicely into getting into like the
Speaker 2: more early modern. But again, you know, it's fantasy, so
Speaker 2: it's all over the places. It's the it's a series
Speaker 2: of graphic novels called Monstrous Well it fucking whips. It's
Speaker 2: by Marshay Leu and Sna ta Keda, and you know,
Speaker 2: absolutely fucking fantastic. You've got like there's a group called
Speaker 2: the Arcanics and they're kind of like magic creatures, some
Speaker 2: of them can pass for humans, some cat and then
Speaker 2: there's like the Federation, which are like a bunch of
Speaker 2: like uh you know, think about like the Benajazzaret, but
Speaker 2: like even more evil kind of a thing. Very very fun.
Speaker 2: There's like basically the protagonist arm is a monster that
Speaker 2: will like eat people and it fucking whips. It's so
Speaker 2: good man, Yeah, really good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you want you talking about that. The Dune
Speaker 1: series really is good about taking a lot of the
Speaker 1: contours of the Middle Ages and the Holy Roman Empire
Speaker 1: and putting them into space. There's obviously sci fi trappings
Speaker 1: on top of that, but like a lot of that
Speaker 1: series is about how like the Golden Path involve like
Speaker 1: essentially cutting off hyperspace travel for three thousand years and
Speaker 1: everybody is sent back into like a feudal lifestyle essentially
Speaker 1: on the planet that they're on. When that happens, it's
Speaker 1: very hard to get off. And Frank Herbert did a
Speaker 1: great job of including stuff the the you know, the
Speaker 1: the governing body that they have, the structure that they
Speaker 1: have is very HR but also it's it's late medieval,
Speaker 1: but it's also early modern HR because of course Paula
Speaker 1: Trades is a Napoleon figure and he's going to take
Speaker 1: them down at the Battle of Austerlitz in space the
Speaker 1: Battle of Arakaslts, And yeah, you know it's I think
Speaker 1: that one does a good job. I think when you're
Speaker 1: doing these, when you're looking at stuff, I think it's
Speaker 1: a good thing to just, you know, find one that
Speaker 1: you like and pick the medieval and medieval some aspects
Speaker 1: out of it that you do enjoy, and then just
Speaker 1: you know, absorb the rest and let them wash over you.
Speaker 1: Because like, no one's gonna do it exactly right, because
Speaker 1: if you did, it's not fantasy, it's not sci fi.
Speaker 1: It's not it's just a history book. And you know,
Speaker 1: like when you when you start adding stuff on top
Speaker 1: of it, and instead of having you know, a normal
Speaker 1: battering ram, you have grand to the Ngrond and you
Speaker 1: have dragons, like you know, I mean they they thought
Speaker 1: medieval people thought a lot of them thought dragons were real.
Speaker 1: Like the first time Eastern Europeans saw Mongolian fire based
Speaker 1: weaponry like the fire lances and the exploding pots and
Speaker 1: stuff that they had, uh, I mean they thought they had.
Speaker 1: There were reports that they had trained dragons like that, like,
Speaker 1: you know them a dragon being there is I mean
Speaker 1: to the medieval mind, like, oh, they finally came back. Cool.
Speaker 1: They were sleeping in whales or you know, in in
Speaker 1: Ethiopia or wherever it is we mentally store all these things.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think that's cool. I think, uh, I
Speaker 1: like it.
Speaker 2: I like it a lot.
Speaker 1: And uh, yeah, I think I think those are some
Speaker 1: good options. I know there are a lot more, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just you know, yeah, those are like the
Speaker 2: ones that.
Speaker 1: Hre go with Dune. If you want to see the
Speaker 1: Roman Empire in space, you can read the Foundation trilogy,
Speaker 1: the original win by Isaac Asimov, which is fun. It's like, uh,
Speaker 1: if the Roman empower was in space, but every thousand
Speaker 1: years or so, they woke up space Linen for him
Speaker 1: to tell them everything that they did wrong and why
Speaker 1: they fucking suck and how they need to fix it,
Speaker 1: and then they just put him back to sleep for
Speaker 1: a while. It's actually pretty funny. But yeah, g yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you very much for the question, and uh yeah,
Speaker 1: that is going to do it for us today. Thank
Speaker 1: you patrons for these questions, Thank you everyone for listening.
Speaker 1: As we said at the top of the show. We
Speaker 1: are all over the place. You could check us out.
Speaker 1: But yeah, eleanor what do you got anything else going
Speaker 1: on right now?
Speaker 2: I mean the main stuff is the main stuff at
Speaker 2: the minute. I've got some things that I'll probably be
Speaker 2: putting on the socials later in the month when it
Speaker 2: comes out. So for example, the talk I gave to
Speaker 2: get today for the checks will be online at some
Speaker 2: point in time when I will share it. So the
Speaker 2: best thing that you can do at the moment, if
Speaker 2: you're wanting this bullshit is to follow me on the
Speaker 2: socials at Going Medieval, except on Instagram, where I'm just
Speaker 2: doctor eleanor Yaniga, which I never say. I'm trying to
Speaker 2: get better at Instagram, but you know, yeah, so watch
Speaker 2: that space because when things come out, I will usually
Speaker 2: put them on there.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, Lucas amazing on this stuff. If you
Speaker 1: guys know that, you can find our own show, People's
Speaker 1: Sisty of the Old Republic if you want to hear
Speaker 1: me chat about us a very niche era in Star Wars. Otherwise,
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for us today. Thank you very
Speaker 1: much for listening, and we will see you next time. Bye.