Speaker 1: It's no surprise that I like a good mystery case.
Speaker 1: So today I have one that's been sitting on my
Speaker 1: list for a while, and since spooky season is slowly
Speaker 1: creeping up on us, it just seemed like the perfect
Speaker 1: time to share it. Well, are talking about a case
Speaker 1: that takes us back into the nineteen sixties where two
Speaker 1: men were found dead under very strange circumstances with two
Speaker 1: lead masks laying next to them. The investigation that unfolded
Speaker 1: would take authorities down all kinds of rabbit holes that
Speaker 1: would include UFO sightings with government investigations. This is the case,
Speaker 1: the infamous case known as the lead Mask Case. My
Speaker 1: name's Ben, I'm.
Speaker 2: Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim.
Speaker 1: A true crime podcast material audience listener. I changed it up.
Speaker 1: I opened my beer in the intro.
Speaker 2: I liked it.
Speaker 1: You liked it. I haven't even sipped it yet.
Speaker 2: I'm drinking a good old ice coffee.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you are a vanilla one.
Speaker 2: Rare time that I drink coffee, staying good.
Speaker 1: Drink those Starbucks ice ones all the time, though I do.
Speaker 2: I don't think they're not very strong coffee flavored, but it's.
Speaker 3: A frappuccino technically is it? It's a coffee, you know
Speaker 3: those ones that you can get a convenience stores in
Speaker 3: the glass bottle. That's what she's down on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she likes it. It's real good. And we're about
Speaker 2: to leave on a jet plane here, Yeah.
Speaker 1: We are. I was really wanting to sing that song
Speaker 1: right away as as as you said that, but I'm
Speaker 1: holding myself back to save your ears. But yeah, we
Speaker 1: are leaving on a jet plane. We're heading over to
Speaker 1: the East coast. We're going over a little bit of
Speaker 1: a work trip slash vacation, and we're gonna be hitting
Speaker 1: up Disney World and Universal Studios.
Speaker 2: While we're there. Yeah, it's gonna be good.
Speaker 1: It is. It's gonna be good. Go see Mickey and
Speaker 1: many and all the.
Speaker 2: Podcast funny that we have been. Well, it's gonna be
Speaker 2: our second time being at disney World, but yet we
Speaker 2: haven't gone to Disneyland, which is you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and especially considering we're on the West coast. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it's so close.
Speaker 2: Well, I think you could. Probably it's way closer.
Speaker 1: It's way closer, yeah, but I wouldn't say it's close closer.
Speaker 2: I mean, we were supposed to go there one year,
Speaker 2: but COVID yeah.
Speaker 1: Like literally, Okay, you guys remember when the first like
Speaker 1: COVID shutdown happened. Yeah, we were supposed to be in
Speaker 1: Disneyland that first week of COVID shutdown.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, because we were celebrating our tenth wedding anniversary. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then we renovated our basement instead.
Speaker 1: Yep. It was so sad, yep, but it was a
Speaker 1: good time though I'm still sitting at home. It wasn't
Speaker 1: as great as Disneyland, but I'm sure we all still
Speaker 1: have some fun memories from Well. Yeah, COVID times.
Speaker 2: Got shit done somehow, we didd true.
Speaker 1: But we also got to thank patrons because, I mean,
Speaker 1: without the show, you guys listening and people signing up
Speaker 1: and supporting us over in Patreon, we probably wouldn't still
Speaker 1: be doing this. So shout out to Rachel Fabri and
Speaker 1: Freya Thompson.
Speaker 2: Nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they signed up on Patreon this week and they
Speaker 1: get all that exclusive behind the scenes and extra content.
Speaker 2: That's awesome.
Speaker 1: It is awesome. They're awesome, and you guys are awesome
Speaker 1: too for being here. So thank you.
Speaker 2: Okay, so what do you got for.
Speaker 1: Us well, the interlube intro Interlube interlude interlude intro. I
Speaker 1: gave you a little bit of a hint, will not
Speaker 1: hint information on it. It's called the Lead Mass Case.
Speaker 1: Have you heard this one?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Really, well I don't think so. No.
Speaker 1: It's been on my list for a long time. It
Speaker 1: is a potentially a true crime case. There is death,
Speaker 1: and there is some some spookiness to it, you know.
Speaker 2: So sounds like it's right up your alley it is.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know this time of year, we're
Speaker 1: not even in October yet, but I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people are feeling that spooky season early this.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it already feels like it's basically October to me, right,
Speaker 2: So I wanted to kind of throw this one in
Speaker 2: there because it just seemed good.
Speaker 1: I was gonna save up potentially for Halloween week, but
Speaker 1: you know what, let's do it early, Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Let's do it, Okay, So you ready for this?
Speaker 2: Mm hmm?
Speaker 1: All right. So on August twentieth, nineteen sixty six, eighteen
Speaker 1: year old George da Costa Alvez was out on Vitamin
Speaker 1: Hill flying his kite. What a strange smell caught his attention.
Speaker 1: You know, it was a warm and sunny day in
Speaker 1: southeast Brazil at the time, following a series of rainstorms,
Speaker 1: and George expected, you know, to breathe in the fresh
Speaker 1: scent of wet grass, or maybe even the salty breeze
Speaker 1: coming off the ocean and the beach nearby, right, But instead,
Speaker 1: what he encountered was something a little more unpleasant. It
Speaker 1: was foul, and it was an unmistakable odor, one that
Speaker 1: we all know as decay rotting. Well, George was curious,
Speaker 1: and he began to search for the source. Not far
Speaker 1: from where he stood. That's when he saw two pairs
Speaker 1: of legs protruding from the grass. At first glance, it
Speaker 1: seemed almost like there was two men laying there and
Speaker 1: simply just you know, out for a nap, laying in
Speaker 1: the sun or whatever. Right, But the swarm of insects
Speaker 1: and the stench made it very clear that something was
Speaker 1: something else was happening here. They weren't out just for
Speaker 1: you know, just an afternoon nap in the grass. Now,
Speaker 1: these guys, the smell was rot These guys were dead clearly.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm honestly kind of impressed that they went
Speaker 2: looking for the smell, because I am almost certain that
Speaker 2: I wouldn't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just peace out, Yeah, I can't blame you on
Speaker 1: that one.
Speaker 2: I don't think I wouldn't think it's a human or anything,
Speaker 2: but I maybe an animal or something, and I just
Speaker 2: don't think I would like try to go find it.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, Well, George did go find it, and after
Speaker 1: he found it, he quickly alerted the authorities and police
Speaker 1: arrived on the scene very quickly. It was immediately clear
Speaker 1: that this was no ordinary case because lying in the
Speaker 1: tall grass where of course, these two men, their two
Speaker 1: bodies their remains, but a little bit more so, these
Speaker 1: two were seemingly in about their thirties. They were dressed
Speaker 1: in informal black suits and wore raincoats. Nearby investigators found
Speaker 1: things that the game began to get a little bit strange.
Speaker 1: There were two lead masks. Now these weren't full lead
Speaker 1: masks it would cover an entire face, but instead resembled
Speaker 1: like oversized sunglasses made entirely out of lead. Adding to
Speaker 1: the mystery, there was a peculiar note that was found
Speaker 1: near the bodies, and it read four thirty pm. Be
Speaker 1: at the determined place six thirty pm. Swallow capsules after
Speaker 1: effect protect metals weight for mask signal.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I don't get this lead mask thing though.
Speaker 2: That doesn't make sense, Like I'm having trouble visualizing what
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 1: Think like a big old pair of sunglasses. Okay, and
Speaker 1: they're they're metal.
Speaker 2: No lens, so nothing that you can you can't see
Speaker 2: through it, then, I.
Speaker 1: Don't think so, as far as I'm aware, maybe there
Speaker 1: was a pinhole or something. I don't think so. Okay,
Speaker 1: I have never actually tried to look up a photo
Speaker 1: of it, if I'm being honest, But as far as
Speaker 1: my understanding is, they're just solid lead.
Speaker 2: Interesting, yes, well.
Speaker 1: Investigators continue to comb through the area. They discovered a
Speaker 1: few more items, a bottle of mineral water, two towels,
Speaker 1: and a sum of money, which, when convert to today's value,
Speaker 1: would be about a couple thousand dollars. The men showed
Speaker 1: no sign of visible injury, but due to the advanced
Speaker 1: stage of decomposition, it was difficult to determine much about
Speaker 1: their final moments. Their bodies lay on a patch of vegetation,
Speaker 1: and it appeared to have been deliberately cut, like with
Speaker 1: a knife for a pair of scissors or something like that.
Speaker 1: But there was nothing found in the area to explain that.
Speaker 1: The police were stumped. They weren't able to cause to
Speaker 1: figure out the cause of death, at least not right away.
Speaker 2: This sounds like some cult shit to me, you.
Speaker 1: Think so kind of it could be. Well, what they
Speaker 1: were able to identify was the men's The two men's names,
Speaker 1: One was Manuel Pierra de Cruz and the other was
Speaker 1: Miguel Jose Vianna. Both were electronic technicians and in their
Speaker 1: early thirties. They both had young families and lived in
Speaker 1: a town called Campos, and it was about one hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy five miles away from the location where the
Speaker 1: bodies were found. So what exactly were these two doing
Speaker 1: on Vitamin Hill dressed informal suits with lead masks and
Speaker 1: a bizarre note?
Speaker 2: Well and very young, yeah, exactly so young?
Speaker 1: But mostly what killed them. The more authorities investigated, the
Speaker 1: more questions seemed to arise, and each piece of the
Speaker 1: puzzle only deepened the mystery. Police interviewed George, the boy
Speaker 1: who first discovered the men, and George revealed that he
Speaker 1: had actually seen the men on the hill a few
Speaker 1: days prior, on August seventeenth, sitting in the same spot
Speaker 1: where they were later found dead. The following day, after
Speaker 1: George first saw them, he returned to the area and
Speaker 1: saw the men again, now laying down. However, at this
Speaker 1: time he wasn't alarmed. It was it was just some
Speaker 1: guys laying the grass. They were there the day before.
Speaker 1: Why can't they be you there today? After all, he.
Speaker 2: Is a favorite spot or something right, right.
Speaker 1: It wasn't until a couple days later when the pungent
Speaker 1: smell of decay became the overwhelming, you know clue in
Speaker 1: his mind that you know, something else is going went
Speaker 1: on here and the alerted authorities. So after speaking with George,
Speaker 1: investigators began to piece together the days leading up to
Speaker 1: the death of Manuel and Miguel by interviewing those closest
Speaker 1: to them, and they managed to put together a bit
Speaker 1: of a timeline. So in the morning of August seventeenth,
Speaker 1: both men informed their families that they were heading to
Speaker 1: Sal Paulo to purchase some electronics and use car into
Speaker 1: a used car. Given that they worked as electronic repairman,
Speaker 1: it checked out right. Maybe it was parts or extra
Speaker 1: activities or who knows, but it checks out. What did Simon, however,
Speaker 1: was that they were going such a long distance several
Speaker 1: hours in fact, to buy a car. Another strange detail
Speaker 1: was a significant amount of money they took with them
Speaker 1: and estimated three million kuerzos, which in today's currency would
Speaker 1: roughly estimate to translate at about thirty thousand US dollars.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, which is way more than they needed for
Speaker 2: this car.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming definitely more than they would need for a
Speaker 1: a used car. I can understand people traveling distances for
Speaker 1: used vehicles.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that doesn't seem odd to me at all.
Speaker 1: Usually though it's a collector. I can understand maybe traveling
Speaker 1: an hour, maybe two. But these guys are going several
Speaker 1: hours just for a used car.
Speaker 2: I don't know, because I've met people who bought used
Speaker 2: vehicles from Vancouver.
Speaker 1: But that is also in today's world, where you can
Speaker 1: find deals online travel to go purchase it. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: this is the sixties, right. They don't have a car
Speaker 1: that they're going specifically for. If they're going to go
Speaker 1: travel several hours to go search for a car, it's
Speaker 1: most likely gonna be a very specific car thereafter. And
Speaker 1: that wasn't the case here.
Speaker 2: Okay, that makes sense then, well, it doesn't make sense
Speaker 2: when it makes sense, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I gotcha.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, despite their claims of heading to South Paulo, Manuel
Speaker 1: and Miguel never went there. Instead, they made their way
Speaker 1: to Niterio, which is a wealthy suburb of Rio de Janeiro.
Speaker 1: So the decision left investigators puzzled the sudden change in destination.
Speaker 1: What business did they have there? Was it a lie?
Speaker 1: What's going on? So upon arriving in Indio, Manuel Miguel
Speaker 1: made a few purchases, but not for any electronics equipment
Speaker 1: or the car that they mentioned to their families. Instead,
Speaker 1: with rain being in the forecast, they bought matching raincoats
Speaker 1: for around nine four hundred creezos, and after that, the
Speaker 1: men stopped by a local bar where they purchased a
Speaker 1: bottle of mineral water. At the time, Brazil had a
Speaker 1: program in place where you could return the bottle get
Speaker 1: a small refund with the receipt, just like recycling returns today.
Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, the men kept the receipt for the water,
Speaker 1: a detail that could actually be significant in this case
Speaker 1: because if they had planned to end their lives, holding
Speaker 1: onto the receipt might suggest otherwise. It might say that
Speaker 1: they expected to return.
Speaker 2: Yeah, why would they keep that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I also just have to say, I love that they
Speaker 2: bought matching raincoats. Can we find matching raincoats when we're
Speaker 2: are we?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you're gonna see us in Disney World
Speaker 1: and like a few and we're just gonna be walking
Speaker 1: around with matching raincoats.
Speaker 2: I would love that, of course you would.
Speaker 1: Well. Witnesses at a bar where they purchased the water
Speaker 1: bottle noted that the men seemed a little bit nervous
Speaker 1: and Miguel kept glancing at his watch. At around three
Speaker 1: fifteen pm, they hitched a ride in a jeep at
Speaker 1: the base of Vitamin Hill. From there they made their
Speaker 1: way up on sorry to the base of Vitamin Hill.
Speaker 1: So from the bar to the base of Edmond Hill,
Speaker 1: and from there they made their way up the hill
Speaker 1: on foot to what would be their final resting place,
Speaker 1: at least before they were buried. So when their bodies
Speaker 1: were eventually discovered, only one hundred and sixty one thousand
Speaker 1: crew row I'm probably butchering how you say this, cruise zeros,
Speaker 1: which is their currency, remained on them. And given that
Speaker 1: the raincoats cost nine four hundred and the bottle of
Speaker 1: water certainly didn't cost two point eight million. The pressing
Speaker 1: question arose when happened to the rest of their money,
Speaker 1: and sorry.
Speaker 2: How should you just say that they had left.
Speaker 1: One hundred and sixty one and they started with three million? Wow,
Speaker 1: so where's the rest of them?
Speaker 2: No shit.
Speaker 1: Adding to the frustration, the corner's responsible for the corners,
Speaker 1: or i should say singular responsible for the examination of
Speaker 1: the bodies, actually told the police he was too busy
Speaker 1: to conduct a proper autopsy on them. So he could
Speaker 1: do the autopsy, but he wasn't able to do a
Speaker 1: toxicology report.
Speaker 2: Which, curiously, Yeah, that is like a job that I
Speaker 2: just don't think that you can say I'm too busy.
Speaker 1: I know, especially considering this it would be a murder.
Speaker 1: And there's a note specifically talking about taking pills brutal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just like, that's kind of shit I don't
Speaker 2: think would fly today.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: No, like you got to do this, but maybe they
Speaker 2: were massively shorthanded, like you did never know, but still
Speaker 2: like you have to do.
Speaker 1: It, yeah, exactly. So Unfortunately it didn't get done, and
Speaker 1: without the testing, there was no way of knowing what substance,
Speaker 1: if any that they actually ingested from these capsules or
Speaker 1: pills that they mentioned.
Speaker 2: That's brutal.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, speaking of the note that actually mentioned these
Speaker 1: these capsules or pills, I think it said capsules, but
Speaker 1: I keep saying pills. So capsules I do actually have
Speaker 1: more than I didn't mention earlier. That was written on
Speaker 1: the note, so it also read quote Sunday, one capsule
Speaker 1: after lunch, Wednesday one capsule at bedtime. Another puzzling detail
Speaker 1: was a mathematical formula also scralled on the note. It's
Speaker 1: Ohm's law and it says it's V equals I are,
Speaker 1: which is a basic principle used to calculate electrical currency.
Speaker 1: And given their profession, I mean, that does kind of
Speaker 1: check out. So it does actually potentially tie the note
Speaker 1: to the men being them, the ones who wrote it,
Speaker 1: and not someone else.
Speaker 2: Okay, something I just thought, is there any way that
Speaker 2: say capsule could mean something other than like a pill
Speaker 2: or some of sorts that you're consuming.
Speaker 1: I mean, potentially, but what else? I have no idea?
Speaker 2: Hmmm, Well, because also too, it doesn't make sense the
Speaker 2: length of time in between taking them, right, Yes, if
Speaker 2: I don't know if these are a pill or something
Speaker 2: that like kills you. I don't know. I just think
Speaker 2: that would make no sense to have that gap in
Speaker 2: between you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not too sure why hmm oka. And it's
Speaker 1: obviously not something standard like penicillin or anything, because that
Speaker 1: gap obviously is not a schedule that you'd fall for
Speaker 1: or sorry follow for something like that. So who knows
Speaker 1: what these capsules if they are a pill, which they
Speaker 1: most likely are, what they would hold mm. So Now,
Speaker 1: as a police examined the scene and the sparse evidence
Speaker 1: that they had on hand, they began exploring theories. One
Speaker 1: possible explanation was a robbery that had gone wrong, though
Speaker 1: this seemed unlikely given the significant amount of mine that
Speaker 1: was still found on their bodies. Most likely someone would
Speaker 1: have taken all of it if they were taking something, yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. Even more problematic was the coroner's rushed autopsy,
Speaker 1: which did state that there were signs of foul play
Speaker 1: or that the men had been killed. I'm sorry, not
Speaker 1: that the men had been killed violently, on, leaving the
Speaker 1: police to focus on other possibilities. So the potential foul play,
Speaker 1: but it's not a violent death, so were they poisoned
Speaker 1: or we don't know, thanks for doing the toxicology report.
Speaker 2: And the fact that that isn't available is just like,
Speaker 2: how the hell are you supposed to.
Speaker 1: Solve this exactly? So the prevailing theory became that this
Speaker 1: was potentially a double suicide, but again without the toxicology report,
Speaker 1: the idea of this was just a question mark. How
Speaker 1: could they prove it? Did they take something on purpose
Speaker 1: to kill them? So we don't know. A year later, though,
Speaker 1: the bodies were exhumed for further testing, and this time
Speaker 1: a toxicologuesy a toxicology there we go examination confirmed that
Speaker 1: the men had not ingested common poisons like arsenic, mercury,
Speaker 1: barium or whatever. So there was not they were not poisoned.
Speaker 2: Okay, what just like a waste? So hey, I just
Speaker 2: feel like they if they just had done that a
Speaker 2: year prior, right then they wouldn't have had to you know,
Speaker 2: like you know, unburied Barry eg zoom zoom, Yeah, then
Speaker 2: have to lay them rest again, Like that just sucks,
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: So they were wondering if this was a suicide. Again
Speaker 1: back to that water bottle receipt, why keep it? Was
Speaker 1: it simply out of habit, you know, Did they just
Speaker 1: put in their pockets they usually do, or was it
Speaker 1: a sign that the men didn't expect to die that day?
Speaker 1: Investigators were left scratching their heads. If not a suicide,
Speaker 1: what other explanation was there. One possibility floated by the
Speaker 1: police was that the men might have been struck by lightning,
Speaker 1: but this theory, like many others, failed to account for
Speaker 1: any of the peculiar details surrounding the case. Police in
Speaker 1: there scrambled to piece together any kind of logical explanation
Speaker 1: for the death of Manuel and Miguel were grasping at
Speaker 1: every possible lead. It had been raining heavily that day,
Speaker 1: the day that they had passed right, not that they
Speaker 1: were found yet, and some locals had actually reported seeing
Speaker 1: bright flashes in the sky on the night of August seventeenth,
Speaker 1: which is how the idea of lightning actually came into
Speaker 1: play in the first place. But the bodies surrounding the
Speaker 1: area didn't. Sorry, The bodies and the surrounding area didn't
Speaker 1: show any signs that supported a lightning strike. The physical
Speaker 1: evidence just simply didn't add up. However, those strange lights
Speaker 1: witnessed by locals took on new significance when a prominent
Speaker 1: member of the community, a woman named Garcinda Barbosa, came forward.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: Garcinda was a well respected woman in Nierio, and while
Speaker 1: she was driving home with their children on the evening
Speaker 1: of August seventeenth, they all saw something very bizarre in
Speaker 1: the sky. She described it as quote an oval shape
Speaker 1: object glowing orange, with a ring of fire encircling it
Speaker 1: and strange blue rays shooting outward in different directions.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, oh is shit. I freaking hate cases like this
Speaker 2: because now my brain is just like going a mile minute.
Speaker 1: It's just like scrambled eggs.
Speaker 2: In there now it is. And I'm like, I want
Speaker 2: to solve it, but I'm just one person. I'm probably
Speaker 2: not going to be able to solve this shit.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean a lot of people have been working
Speaker 1: on this case since the sixties.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, so I asked one question. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you'll know, but like these lead glasses or face
Speaker 2: masks or whatever, Yeah, is that like a prominent thing
Speaker 2: back then? Or it was like kind of weird and
Speaker 2: random to find this.
Speaker 1: It was weird and random to find it.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, interesting.
Speaker 1: So soon after the locals local press caught wind of
Speaker 1: this story of this thing saw the sky and published
Speaker 1: an article about it. Other residents began contacting the police
Speaker 1: with similar reports. They kind of read it in the
Speaker 1: paper and were like, oh, I actually I saw that too.
Speaker 1: Multiple people corroborated this account, claiming they too saw it,
Speaker 1: this thing in the sky, just as it was described
Speaker 1: in this article, And when they were asked why they
Speaker 1: didn't come forward sooner, most of them just explained that
Speaker 1: they were too afraid of being labeled it's crazy.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, because I mean, yeah, who would last? People
Speaker 2: would not believe you. So I'm not sure I would
Speaker 2: you saw something weird in the sky, would you like
Speaker 2: call right away?
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's hard to say.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: But for these people though, with Griscinda's reputation being a
Speaker 1: very prominent individual and society around here and her and
Speaker 1: her credibility coming forward, they're like, well she can come forward,
Speaker 1: I can too.
Speaker 2: Right, So it makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they felt a little bit more comfortable.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, in numbers too, it's easier right exactly.
Speaker 1: Now, whether or not these sightings were reliable or they just,
Speaker 1: you know, like we're part of this frenzy of whatever
Speaker 1: that happened once was published in the paper. I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's entirely unsure, but police did continue to dig deeper
Speaker 1: into the lives of Manuel and Miguel, hoping to uncover
Speaker 1: something that was a little less out of this world.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 2: That was good too.
Speaker 1: So inside the men's workshop, officers found scraps of lead
Speaker 1: that were consistent with the material used to create the
Speaker 1: bizarre lead eyeglasses that the men were wearing, or sorry
Speaker 1: that had been found next to them when they died.
Speaker 1: The discovery strongly suggested that the two had constructed the
Speaker 1: masks themselves deliberately and preparing them for some sort of
Speaker 1: specific purpose. Which what purpose that is were unsure. But
Speaker 1: the most intriguing find came when police uncovered a collection
Speaker 1: of books in the men's possession, particularly those on scientific spiritualism.
Speaker 1: Several passages in these books had been highlighted, and they
Speaker 1: were about contact with extraterrestrials. The text claims that when
Speaker 1: humans come into contact with aliens, the light they admit
Speaker 1: is so intense that it will blind you unless you
Speaker 1: wore specific protection, specifically sunglasses made of lead.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, Hey, it's like they like called them or something, yeah,
Speaker 2: or knew something that no one else did.
Speaker 1: Exactly, which is very strange because if they're out there
Speaker 1: for that purpose, that's one thing. But there's also reports
Speaker 1: of seeing UFOs that fucking night.
Speaker 2: But do you think that they could have just been
Speaker 2: doing something with the light.
Speaker 1: Maybe that is very potential.
Speaker 2: Huh, Because I see, I'm kind of one of I'm
Speaker 2: a skeptic, Like I actually don't super Oh gosh about
Speaker 2: saying this, I'm like, I shouldn't say this out loud,
Speaker 2: but I don't know if I do really believe in
Speaker 2: aliens and stuff.
Speaker 1: I doue like I, but I'm a skeptic just like you.
Speaker 1: I want to disprove every account out there to find
Speaker 1: the real ones. If that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because I have heard people say before, like
Speaker 2: it's what would be the word, but it's unrealistic for
Speaker 2: us to think that we're like the only people or
Speaker 2: like things that exist in this universe or whatever. Right.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know the exact calculations, so don't quote
Speaker 1: me on this. I'm just gonna make one up just
Speaker 1: to give an example. But there was an article or
Speaker 1: something that was written out there on a scientist doing
Speaker 1: the math on what it would be for another Goldilocks planet,
Speaker 1: which is what Earth is to be in the perfect
Speaker 1: zone from its son to support life. He did the
Speaker 1: math on what it would take for another Goldilocks planet
Speaker 1: to exist out there, and it was like something wild,
Speaker 1: like one in like several billion or something. Right, Oh, okay,
Speaker 1: but there are hundreds of millions of trillions and gazillions
Speaker 1: of fucking stars out there, let alone planets. So that
Speaker 1: basically the math just proved the existence of like, not
Speaker 1: necessarily intelligent life, but a Goldilocks planet existing that would hold.
Speaker 2: Life some sort of other life yeaheah.
Speaker 1: So don't quote me on those exact numbers, but it
Speaker 1: was something along those lines. But and then of course
Speaker 1: you have to account for well, are the intelligent and
Speaker 1: are they still alive today? Have they destroyed themselves? Are
Speaker 1: they far left long enough in their evolution to travel?
Speaker 1: And there's so many other questions into it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, we're probably not about that for a while,
Speaker 2: couldn't we.
Speaker 1: Oh, if you get a couple of drinks in me,
Speaker 1: I will talk about it all.
Speaker 2: Night, oh goss.
Speaker 1: But Manuel's wife confirmed that the two men were indeed
Speaker 1: involved in scientific spiritualism, and they were deeply involved in
Speaker 1: a community of like minded individuals that were scientific spiritualists.
Speaker 1: In fact, she actually revealed that many of the electronics
Speaker 1: repairmen the area shared this belief system, specifically in this
Speaker 1: this this field of work, regularly engaging in secret meetings
Speaker 1: and even seances. And what did you say earlier?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like in my head, I'm like, yeah, this
Speaker 2: is like a cult of sorts.
Speaker 1: There there we go.
Speaker 2: Okay, So this.
Speaker 1: Secret society spiritualists wasn't an unusual hobby for the men
Speaker 1: in this profession, especially in the nineteen sixties Brazil, where
Speaker 1: the lines between science and spirituality were often blurred. So
Speaker 1: Miguel's niece added to an even stranger sorry, added an
Speaker 1: even stranger layer to this story. On the day of
Speaker 1: Miguel leaving the house, she asked him where he was headed.
Speaker 1: His reply was he was going to Saint Paulo to
Speaker 1: buy a car. When she questioned, why you travel so
Speaker 1: far to make a purchase that could easily be done
Speaker 1: closer to home and probably for a far better price,
Speaker 1: Miguel responded, quote, I need to know one thing. Then
Speaker 1: when I get back, i'll tell you if I really
Speaker 1: believe in this story of spiritualism or not.
Speaker 2: Oh jeez, hey, I do want.
Speaker 1: To highlight one thing he said, then said there, then
Speaker 1: when I get back, When.
Speaker 2: I get back, Yeah, he was planning to return.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he was not planning to die. Okay, his
Speaker 1: words hinted at something much deeper than a simple car purchase.
Speaker 2: Obviously, right, that was just like a cover story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Miguel seemed to be on the verge of some
Speaker 1: kind of revelation or test regarding his beliefs and whether
Speaker 1: this final journey was intended to confirm or debunk his
Speaker 1: faith in spiritualism. It kind of remains unclear, but it
Speaker 1: suggests that the men were actively involved in something significant
Speaker 1: related to their spiritual practices, and at this point the
Speaker 1: investigation began to circle around the question what exactly were
Speaker 1: Manuel and Miguel getting involved in and what role did
Speaker 1: their spiritualist activities play in their deaths. Now, it's important
Speaker 1: to clarify spiritualism, and more specifically scientific spiritualism. In essence,
Speaker 1: it's the belief of communication with the dead and believing
Speaker 1: that it's possible that there's hidden channel between the living
Speaker 1: and the afterlife, and that one can tune into this
Speaker 1: channel and to speak with lost loved ones. But Manuel
Speaker 1: and Miguel were not just ordinary spiritualists. They were part
Speaker 1: of a movement known as saying tific spiritualism. This subset
Speaker 1: basically seeks out or sought out to prove that observable
Speaker 1: phenomena and experiments through these sort of things, that the
Speaker 1: supernatural was real. So think of like ghost hunting today
Speaker 1: and using technology, similar sort of thing. Through technology, we
Speaker 1: can prove that this sort of spiritualistic idea and these
Speaker 1: phenomena are real. That's kind of what they are, very
Speaker 1: early stage ghost hunters.
Speaker 2: Essentially, right, Okay, it makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they basically believe using science to demonstrate the existence.
Speaker 2: Now okay, sorry, they weren't really Okay, I'm just confused.
Speaker 2: Were they kind of wanting to talk to the dead
Speaker 2: or were they wanting to be seeing if there's like
Speaker 2: alien and stuff like it's really unknown kind.
Speaker 1: We'll get to that, okay, yeah, okay, So in nineteen
Speaker 1: sixties Brazil, this fusion of science and sp spiritualism spiritual
Speaker 1: reality really penetrated certain professions, particularly the electronic repairment profession.
Speaker 2: Really, that's bizarre to me. This whole case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't really know why it leaked into that
Speaker 1: profession specifically, Maybe because I guess their ability to work
Speaker 1: with electronics. They're trying to like tune the electronics to
Speaker 1: this certain frequence. Maybe it's just their knowledge that they
Speaker 1: held it was a certain skill set for it.
Speaker 2: I'm like almost on vacation here, and you're making me
Speaker 2: you have to think way too.
Speaker 1: It is a bit of a convoluted case, but most
Speaker 1: of this stuff you don't actually have to think too
Speaker 1: hard on. Okay, So basically they were found dead, there's
Speaker 1: some spiritualistic stuff going on that really comes from like
Speaker 1: their hey electronics businesses or whatever, and there's a UFO
Speaker 1: sighting that occurs the same night as their death, which
Speaker 1: is very suspicious. Yeah, that's what they're seeking out. That's
Speaker 1: basically all you really need.
Speaker 2: To know, I know. But it's still like just you know,
Speaker 2: the gears are turning because understandable wanting to figure this out.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, Well, the police were also wanting to figure
Speaker 1: it out, and the investigation was continuing, and they learned
Speaker 1: of a figure who was actually tied to Manuel and Miguel,
Speaker 1: which was an individual who was also an electronic repairman
Speaker 1: by the name of Elco. Now, Elcio was believed to
Speaker 1: be the last person to see Manuel and Miguel alive,
Speaker 1: while also admitted to being a scientific spiritualist person. Like
Speaker 1: others in the profession, the police couldn't actually find concrete
Speaker 1: evidence directly linking him to the men's death. He just
Speaker 1: happened to be the last one to see him alive.
Speaker 1: Sort of thing, right, But nevertheless, Elsio provided a fascinating
Speaker 1: bit of insight into Manuel and Miguel and their search
Speaker 1: on Vitamin Hill. He revealed that their goal wasn't simply
Speaker 1: to communicate with the dead. These men were seeking contact
Speaker 1: with higher and more intelligent beings. So also knew how
Speaker 1: outlandish this sounded, but he assured the police that their
Speaker 1: work was real and that he could prove it so.
Speaker 1: A few weeks before Manuel and Miguel's death, Alcio explained
Speaker 1: that the men had conducted an experiment to see if
Speaker 1: they could communicate with extraterrestrials, specifically beings from Mars. They
Speaker 1: had even built a device for this purpose in Elsio's garden. Now,
Speaker 1: according to him, the belief within the scientific community, or
Speaker 1: whatever the spiritualist community it wasn't limited to contacting spirits
Speaker 1: that deceased. They held the idea that all spirits, living
Speaker 1: or dead, could be reached. So this whole spiritualistic idea. Yes,
Speaker 1: you can contact the dead, but you can contact living
Speaker 1: spirits too, also known as other spirits on other worlds
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, aliens, so including those of intelligent life,
Speaker 1: all these other spirits, they were all up for graps.
Speaker 1: This desice device sorry, that they built was supposed to
Speaker 1: facilitate that communication. Though the exact mechanisms of this device
Speaker 1: remained unknown, it was unclear that the men viewed this
Speaker 1: as a serious piece of technology. Sorry, it was clear,
Speaker 1: not unclear, It's very clear then the men viewed this
Speaker 1: as a very serious piece of technology. However, when they
Speaker 1: first activated the device, things didn't go as they planned.
Speaker 1: They're hoping to fire this thing up and begin using
Speaker 1: it almost as like a two way radio, and start
Speaker 1: talking with these spirits, but the machine instead violently exploded,
Speaker 1: cutting the experiment very short. And after the explosion settled,
Speaker 1: something strange caught their attention. A mysterious powder that had
Speaker 1: appeared around the garden scattered in the aftermath to Elcio
Speaker 1: and the others This wasn't just debris from the explosion.
Speaker 1: It was proof that their experiment had worked. They believed
Speaker 1: the powder was evidence of spirit or extraterrestrial presence. With
Speaker 1: that apparent success under their belts, Alsio, Manuel and Miguel
Speaker 1: decided they wanted to try again, but this time on
Speaker 1: a much grander scale. So in June they traveled to
Speaker 1: Adipon Beach, where they hoped to where they hopped into
Speaker 1: the secluded location and they hoped that it would allow
Speaker 1: them to conduct their experiment with few interruptions. On that warm,
Speaker 1: still night, three men set up their equipment and began
Speaker 1: to work. As they were in the midst of the experiment,
Speaker 1: they looked up to see something incredible, a large glowing
Speaker 1: object descending from the sky above them. According to Alsio,
Speaker 1: they watched this illuminated craft for about five minutes as
Speaker 1: it came closer and closer to Earth. Then, just as
Speaker 1: suddenly as it appeared, the object began to ascend back
Speaker 1: up once again, disappearing into the clouds. As it did,
Speaker 1: a bright flash and a deafening bang echoed across the
Speaker 1: beach and across the sky, as if a bomb had
Speaker 1: gone off in the sky, and once again, a powder
Speaker 1: substance was left behind, scattered in its wake, just like before.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, I just feel like they're just almost kind
Speaker 2: of playing with fire here in a way.
Speaker 1: Potentially whether this is a real situation they're actually calling
Speaker 1: these spirits, let's just say yah for a second, they are. Yes,
Speaker 1: you're playing with fire in that regard. If not, and
Speaker 1: you're just blowing up some electronics equipment on a beach,
Speaker 1: you're also playing with fire.
Speaker 2: That's true. Like really, yeah, So now I'm either it's
Speaker 2: still potentially a cult in my mind, but it also
Speaker 2: could just be like an experiment gone wrong too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be. Well, Elciel's tail was understandably met
Speaker 1: with some skepticism, just like we are a little bit
Speaker 1: skeptical right now. But these three men attempting to contact
Speaker 1: aliens and actually succeeding to bring a UFO to Earth,
Speaker 1: only for it to leave them with a massive explosion.
Speaker 1: It sounds pretty far fetched, like something out of a
Speaker 1: science fiction film. But Elsio was adamant that they witnessed
Speaker 1: this thing and it was real and it was proof
Speaker 1: of contact with extraterrestrial And here's where the story takes
Speaker 1: an even stranger turn. As if it hasn't already taken
Speaker 1: a bit of a strange term. But there were multiple
Speaker 1: documented reports from other witnesses who had heard a loud
Speaker 1: explosion and seen these mysterious lights that Elsio had described
Speaker 1: over top of the beach that night. In fact, in fact,
Speaker 1: the event was so significant that it even caught the
Speaker 1: attention of the Brazilian Navy and Air Force, who launched
Speaker 1: an official investigation into it.
Speaker 2: Okay, and this story is the night that they died, right, No, oh,
Speaker 2: this was the other night.
Speaker 1: This is when Elsio is working with them on the
Speaker 1: beach prior to them even die. So we now have
Speaker 1: two documented nights where there are supposed experiments happening, with
Speaker 1: documented UFO sightings.
Speaker 2: Yeah well yeah, to even get like the did you
Speaker 2: say the Navy or the army or something.
Speaker 1: The Air Force and the Navy.
Speaker 2: Yeah wow, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: So now, during their inquiry, the military discovered that they
Speaker 1: had picked up three unidentified radio signals on the night
Speaker 1: of the explosion, signals that they couldn't trace to any
Speaker 1: known source. They even reported hearing a strange conversation over
Speaker 1: the radios. Of the contents of the conversation were never
Speaker 1: revealed publicly. What made it even more mysterious was that
Speaker 1: despite having technology to locate the origins of the radio transmissions,
Speaker 1: the military was unable to determine where the signals came from.
Speaker 1: None of the radios involved in the transmission were registered
Speaker 1: within Brazil.
Speaker 2: M okay, And was there with these two bodies that
Speaker 2: they'd found? Was there any sort of powder? Not that
Speaker 2: I'm aware of, okay, I can't remember if you like
Speaker 2: said that, and I just knowed it, okay, not.
Speaker 1: That I'm aware of. And the powder there is no
Speaker 1: doc documented evidence of this powder. That is strictly just
Speaker 1: what els was talking, right, But unfortunately, this beach experiment,
Speaker 1: this was the last time that Elsio actually saw Manuel
Speaker 1: and Miguel alive before they ended up passing on vitamin Hill.
Speaker 2: And why the heck wasn't he involved in this other one?
Speaker 1: Hey?
Speaker 3: Wasn't.
Speaker 1: Just wasn't so. As the months went by, police struggled
Speaker 1: to come up with an answer, and the case remained
Speaker 1: very confusing. Then a little over a year later, a
Speaker 1: new lead emerged that added a potential clue to the puzzle.
Speaker 1: A Brazilian yoga professor stepped forward and claimed that he
Speaker 1: knew the purpose of the mysterious pills that had been
Speaker 1: mentioned in the note found with the bodies. According to
Speaker 1: this professor, who was a local scientific spiritualist and had
Speaker 1: knowledge of them, they had begun doing experiments with psychedelic
Speaker 1: drugs as a way to tune their minds for contact
Speaker 1: with these spirits or alien life. These substances were said
Speaker 1: to put people into a trance like state, which made
Speaker 1: them more perceptive to the signals and emissions that extra
Speaker 1: extraterrestrial beings might transmit.
Speaker 2: That kind of makes sense.
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, people do that today, like LSD acid, Like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm going on a trip, right, That's
Speaker 1: why they call it a trip because of all these
Speaker 1: different like plane traveling or what. I don't know the
Speaker 1: proper terminology, or I could be being a bit ignorant
Speaker 1: about it, but there are these sort of things that
Speaker 1: literally occur today in spiritualistic realms.
Speaker 2: Yeah stuff.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, and now because of these admissions were
Speaker 1: thought to be blindingly bright. He also said that, yeah,
Speaker 1: the lead masks makes sense because of this or whatever protection.
Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of this didn't really offer much
Speaker 1: new information, Like the police kind of already thought about
Speaker 1: that because they found the writings with Manuel and Miguel's books,
Speaker 1: things that were highlighted for regarding the lead masks, they
Speaker 1: found the lead in their workshops. They kind of already
Speaker 1: figured that it's not really any new information really. But
Speaker 1: in June of nineteen sixty eight, two years after the death,
Speaker 1: another potential break in the case would surface. The police
Speaker 1: announced that they were searching for a quote blonde man
Speaker 1: who was believed to have driven the jeep that transported
Speaker 1: Manuel and Miguel from Nitario to the base of Vitamin Hill.
Speaker 1: A witness had come forward stating that they had seen
Speaker 1: two men, the two men speaking with a blonde man
Speaker 1: in a jeep. They were reportedly the two There were
Speaker 1: reportedly two other individuals in the jeep as well, though
Speaker 1: witnesses didn't get a good look at them. Unfortunately, this
Speaker 1: lead turned out to be a dead end, okay, and
Speaker 1: the blonde man and the other occupants were never identified.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's not like the best of descriptions to
Speaker 2: find somebody.
Speaker 1: There's a blonde dude and a jeep with two other guys.
Speaker 1: You described fifty percent of Californians. I'm sorry, Like, I'm
Speaker 1: just picturing like Hollywood's depiction of like a surfer. He's
Speaker 1: driving down like the beach highway with like the blaw
Speaker 1: flowing blonde air. It's jeep, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, it's not the best of descriptions.
Speaker 1: No it's not. It's pretty open ended in all honesty.
Speaker 1: But this case would take another unexpected twist when a
Speaker 1: man named Hamilton Bizani came forward claiming to know exactly
Speaker 1: what happened to Manuel and Miguel. Now, according to Hamilton,
Speaker 1: who was already a notorious criminal serving time in prison,
Speaker 1: he himself was responsible for the men's death.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, here we go.
Speaker 1: So Hamilton's story was bizarre, but he said that while
Speaker 1: hiding from the law in Rio de Janeiro, he was
Speaker 1: approached by three individuals who had a job for him
Speaker 1: in Nitorel and this job promised good pay for all involved.
Speaker 1: The group took him to Nitoreo, where they visited a
Speaker 1: spiritualist center. It was at this center, during a seance
Speaker 1: that Hamilton said that's when they met Manuel and Miguel.
Speaker 1: According to Hamilton, they learned during the sanths the two
Speaker 1: men were planning to return home to buy a used
Speaker 1: car and equipment and they had a significant amount of
Speaker 1: cash on them. Hamilton then claimed that the group drove
Speaker 1: Manuel Miguel to the base of him in hill, forced
Speaker 1: them to walk to the top, robbed them, made them
Speaker 1: drink poison, and that's that.
Speaker 2: You're frowning well, Afers, I was like, Okay, maybe this
Speaker 2: is going to get us somewhere, but that doesn't really
Speaker 2: seem like it does not really like at all? Yeah,
Speaker 2: not really well because they also did the toxcology report, right,
Speaker 2: and they didn't say that there was any poison in
Speaker 2: them exactly.
Speaker 1: Not to mention that this witness mentioned there were three
Speaker 1: people in the vehicle talking to Manuel Miguel. This guy's
Speaker 1: now saying that there was four of them plus Manuel Miguel.
Speaker 1: And I mean, in all honesty, if this was a robbery,
Speaker 1: like he's saying, like they they robbed him at the
Speaker 1: top of the hill and made them drink poison, why
Speaker 1: was there still money.
Speaker 2: In the body they're wanting have been like a dime left?
Speaker 1: And also, if you're going to rob them, why make
Speaker 1: them walk to the top of the hill before robbing them?
Speaker 2: Exactly?
Speaker 1: Yeah, why I walk them all the way up, rob them,
Speaker 1: then make them drink poison up that why not the
Speaker 1: bottom or anywhere else?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, like, I feel like no one wants to
Speaker 2: willingly walk up the hill, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even to authorities as this guy's talking, they were
Speaker 1: not convinced. The whole story felt fake and force and
Speaker 1: they were just like, yeah, sure, buddy, so okay. The
Speaker 1: police had already been chasing complex theories involving UFO scientific
Speaker 1: spiritualism and cult like rituals, and now they're expected to
Speaker 1: believe the sudden tale of random robbery turned murder. And
Speaker 1: ultimately the police decided, yeah, they weren't chasing this one,
Speaker 1: and they did not charge Hamilton with the crime, and
Speaker 1: his confession was dismissed as completely unreliable. Frustrated and running
Speaker 1: out of leads, the police eventually closed the case. The
Speaker 1: investigation into the deaths of Manuel and Miguel have been shelved,
Speaker 1: and the authorities were done pursuing theories involving all these random,
Speaker 1: paranormal supernatural things, and officially the case remains unsolved and
Speaker 1: is today a mystery. However, for some, the lack of
Speaker 1: resolution in the bizarre details in the case only fueled
Speaker 1: further speculation. There are those who believe that the police
Speaker 1: knew more than that they were willing to let on,
Speaker 1: and that they closed the case due to lack of
Speaker 1: evidence because they didn't want to confront the possibility of
Speaker 1: something beyond their understanding or willingness to inform the public
Speaker 1: of the truth. Okay, this theory actually does gain some
Speaker 1: traction and isn't just based off people just talking about
Speaker 1: the police, Because there was another strange incident that occurred
Speaker 1: on Vitamin Hill just a couple years earlier, really, in
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two, four years before the death of Manuel Miguel,
Speaker 1: another man, an electronics repair man named Hermes, was found
Speaker 1: dead on that same hill. He too was dressed in
Speaker 1: a suit and found with a lead mask.
Speaker 2: Next time, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: His death was equally unexplained, and like the latter case,
Speaker 1: the police closed the file without offering any real answers.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, what a just wild ride though, that this
Speaker 2: case is even given the police, Like I can't even imagine.
Speaker 1: I know, I feel like the police are honestly just
Speaker 1: like rolling their eyes at whatever new twist and turn
Speaker 1: comes to them. Yeah, like okay, what next, Like you
Speaker 1: know what I mean?
Speaker 2: But it does make sense because I mean, it's not
Speaker 2: a new concept that like UFO or like alien life
Speaker 2: or whatever's hidden from the public, right, Oh, definitely, So
Speaker 2: that's that's I don't know, that makes sense to me
Speaker 2: a bit too well.
Speaker 1: And there is the idea that some people toss around
Speaker 1: a bit that these guys wearing suits out at the
Speaker 1: top of the hill, men in black. Oh yeah, those
Speaker 1: government individuals that show up and like force you to
Speaker 1: keep your else shut, like knows right.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, the fact that this is this is that
Speaker 2: has happened previously is bizarre. Yeah, bizarre.
Speaker 1: So that's the case of the lead mask. The lead
Speaker 1: mask case.
Speaker 2: Huh, holy shit?
Speaker 1: Yeah wow.
Speaker 2: I don't even know what the hell to say.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you ask me. I mean, they
Speaker 1: definitely ingested something, and I think they were intending to
Speaker 1: communicate somehow via these drugs. And I have a feeling
Speaker 1: the toxicology report being done a year later may not
Speaker 1: have been able to.
Speaker 2: Pick it up pick it up, yeah there.
Speaker 1: Or maybe at the time it wasn't able to pick
Speaker 1: up whatever they were taking, or they weren't searching for
Speaker 1: the right thing, who knows. I do think that they
Speaker 1: took pills hoping it would help them communicate with other
Speaker 1: worldly beings, whether dead or extraterrestrials. I'm just gonna say
Speaker 1: other worldly, and as a result, it killed them.
Speaker 2: Hmm. I also think these two men would have known
Speaker 2: too that this other person had done previously, right, I'm
Speaker 2: assuming most likely, So that just it's interesting that they
Speaker 2: would have gone about doing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he did it wrong, We're.
Speaker 2: Going to do right, true, And then now there's just
Speaker 2: not a fourth person trying.
Speaker 1: And I also want to say I think that there
Speaker 1: was a third person involved, most likely that Elsio guy,
Speaker 1: because what I think is they had that experiment that
Speaker 1: blew up and left that residue right, and then they
Speaker 1: did it on the beach and they there was reports
Speaker 1: of this big light. Yeah. I think their experiment then
Speaker 1: also blew up, and that's why there's reports of these
Speaker 1: lights in the sky and the sound. I think they
Speaker 1: did it on this hill again, and Elsio was there
Speaker 1: with them. I think between the drugs and the explosion,
Speaker 1: these guys died. El SiO panicked and fucked off cleaning
Speaker 1: up the crime scene.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, fair.
Speaker 1: It would explain the loud noise and the lights if
Speaker 1: they're an explosion.
Speaker 2: Like he knew more than he was saying kind of thing.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's an extraterrestrial I think they had
Speaker 1: some sort of experiment that went wrong, blew up, big
Speaker 1: bright flash of light, noise. I don't think they died
Speaker 1: necessarily from that, but I do think they died maybe
Speaker 1: a combination of that plus the drugs, because maybe they
Speaker 1: were on like they were already about to have a
Speaker 1: heart attack, their heart rate was so high the explosion happened.
Speaker 1: Maybe there was an emp I don't know, some sort
Speaker 1: of shockwave hit them, stop their hearts. Who knows. There's
Speaker 1: a bunch of theory go in with it, but I
Speaker 1: think combination of the explosion and drugs killed them. And
Speaker 1: Elco knew more than he's talking about, or someone else
Speaker 1: was there.
Speaker 2: Also still a cult? Yes, this is one percent to me, Well, okay,
Speaker 2: I'll do ninety nine percent. Sounds like a cult.
Speaker 1: Think it's a cult, it really does. I think you
Speaker 1: can be a spiritualist. I think you can be a scientist.
Speaker 1: I think you can be a scientific spiritualist and not
Speaker 1: be within a cult. But this one, this particular incident
Speaker 1: sounds cult too cult like to me.
Speaker 2: It kind of does it does. Yeah, Wow, that's wild. Dang, Like,
Speaker 2: why did you have to pick this kind of case
Speaker 2: for today? Now? My brain is just not going to
Speaker 2: shove it.
Speaker 1: It's just screen.
Speaker 2: We'll be like middle of the night on our way,
Speaker 2: like flying because we have to go to Toronto first,
Speaker 2: and I'll be like, what about this man? Maybe it
Speaker 2: was this.
Speaker 1: Hey, yeah, let's talk about We'll theorize on.
Speaker 2: The people on the plane will be like, wow, those
Speaker 2: people have weird conversations.
Speaker 1: Let's let's get plane drunk. Let's just get drunk the
Speaker 1: plane and we're just going to talk about murders and
Speaker 1: ghosts and cults and all this stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know if that would go well for us.
Speaker 1: It might not.
Speaker 2: It's a red eye, so my hope is that I'll
Speaker 2: be able to sleep. But we'll see how that goes.
Speaker 1: We'll see. Hopefully you guys enjoyed this case, if you
Speaker 1: guys have theories about it, because it is very all
Speaker 1: over the place, Like Nicole was saying, it's hard to follow.
Speaker 1: But the basics of the case of what you were
Speaker 1: you need to consider. If you want to dive deep,
Speaker 1: that's when you really get that little bit extra information.
Speaker 1: But I still want to hear your theories. Let us
Speaker 1: know she does a message, email, whatever. We're curious, and
Speaker 1: still we appreciate you guys being here, even if you
Speaker 1: don't have a theory, even if you don't reach out,
Speaker 1: but you can reach out. Check it our links down below,
Speaker 1: do all that good stuff. You're here. You're amazing. Thank you.
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you next time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, until next time.
Speaker 1: And next time we are going to be recording this on.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah trip. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we'll be talking from over in Orlando from
Speaker 1: our hotel room.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's cool. And until then, stay wicked.