WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:02.279 Hi everyone, Thank you so much for tuning in. This 2 00:00:02.399 --> 00:00:05.200 is Adam ramsay for sorry for asking podcasts before we 3 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:07.719 start the episode. I just want to remind everybody to 4 00:00:07.759 --> 00:00:10.759 you take a look at my Instagram Prince Jasmine Underscore 5 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:13.919 because access party is coming up if you're in Los 6 00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:17.359 Angeles March twenty second. Find ticket link at my Instagram. 7 00:00:17.399 --> 00:00:19.440 Thank you so much and enjoy this episode. 8 00:00:20.920 --> 00:00:23.600 As performers in the adult industry, we get asked all 9 00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:25.760 the time about tips on how to perform like a 10 00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:26.559 porn star. 11 00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:29.960 And what says porn star more than a big load? Right? 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Get your hands on Popstar today. 24 00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:08.040 Visit Popstar Labs dot com and save twenty percent on 25 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:12.519 your first order with code Sorry twenty Popstar, Big Loads, 26 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:26.200 Better Taste. You're listening to Sorry for Asking, Sorry for Asking. 27 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.799 I'm Cole Connor and I'm Adam Ramsey. This is where 28 00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:32.239 we talk, shop, ask questions. 29 00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:34.439 Tell stories, and laugh some laughs about. 30 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:37.239 Being creators as well as consumers of adult content. 31 00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:40.959 We love watching too, we certainly do. We also discuss 32 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:44.719 the impact adult films have had on us, on our guests, 33 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:50.040 and on the LGBTQ community. So strap on and strap in. 34 00:01:50.359 --> 00:02:01.439 And here we go. Ooh oh hello, oh hi there, 35 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:04.959 oh hi Hi. I'm Adam Ramsey and I'm Cold Connor. 36 00:02:05.159 --> 00:02:09.240 Welcome back to Sorry for Asking, Sorry for Asking. This 37 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:13.319 is episode two of season four, and we're very excited. 38 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:14.360 How are you, Cole Connor. 39 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:18.800 I'm okay, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah. I don't know. I 40 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:22.400 rainy day blues, rainy day blues. I guess now. 41 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:24.560 I was like, I kind of felt a little like 42 00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:26.520 under the weather the past couple of days. 43 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:27.680 Maybe I felt it coming on. 44 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:32.560 I don't know, but we don't look or sound it. Goodness, 45 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:37.159 we have our first guest of the season. This fine 46 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:40.039 day is a rainy day in Los Angeles. But that's 47 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:43.560 okay because we're going to brighten your day with the beautiful, 48 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:47.199 handsome and certainly one of my favorite people in the world, 49 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:52.159 mister Emil Jamison. Hello, Hello, Hi there, Look at that 50 00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:59.879 smile voice. How are you today? Good? Yeah? Wow, It's 51 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:05.639 it was like a running theme today. We're all like, yeah, yeah, 52 00:03:05.719 --> 00:03:06.560 you know fine. 53 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:09.560 Yeah, I mean between the rain, which good, we need it, 54 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:12.159 and the world falling apart, like you know what I'm managing? 55 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:14.479 Is something happening? I don't, I don't what are you 56 00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:14.919 talking about. 57 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:18.000 I just saw this thing on this like niche news outlet. 58 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:22.639 Yeah, just yeah, a couple of things, just a few, 59 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:26.039 uh huh. Well, we're very happy to have you in today. 60 00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:29.199 We're going to ask you some questions and the questions 61 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:31.159 oh my god, I'm sure you're really good at talking. 62 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:35.159 You have a background in words I do, and we're 63 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:37.879 going to be getting into that. Yes, how long have 64 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:41.000 you been in the adult industry at this point? 65 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:43.280 It's coming up on three years? 66 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:50.039 I think three years? Yeah, geez, is that long or short? Oh? Yeah, 67 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:52.960 I don't know. I guess I thought I guess I 68 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:55.520 thought it was less surprise. 69 00:03:57.319 --> 00:04:00.159 Sneaking up well, because you had, as I understand, and 70 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:05.759 you had a pretty considerable presence on Instagram as a model. 71 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:09.240 Is that correct before you started with adult stuff. 72 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:12.639 Yeah, in a way, that's correct. It was more just 73 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:18.839 like I was taking artsy self portraits. Yes, so I 74 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:23.120 was modeling for myself and occasionally with other photographers, like 75 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:26.800 collabs with photographers Mike you know, yes, exactly. 76 00:04:27.079 --> 00:04:28.879 Yeah, we have a few of those. I would love 77 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:30.920 to see. I would love to see some of my 78 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:34.600 favorite model pictures. Oh that's a pretty one. Okay, did 79 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:35.600 you take this one your situle? 80 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:38.639 Not? Oh that is Lucas and Style. 81 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:42.199 Okay, show us another one. Noah, Oh, that's an also 82 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:44.959 good one. So lots of plants. You're a big plant person. 83 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:47.079 We're going to be getting into that as well. In 84 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:51.079 credible and Okay, that's a good one. Look at this 85 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:55.800 model model which I feel like everybody except for me 86 00:04:56.040 --> 00:04:59.120 has I just refused. He's asked me, I've just refused 87 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:00.439 to do it because I Justi'll want do what everyone 88 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:00.720 else is. 89 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:04.240 I haven't done that. I haven't answered the last couple 90 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:04.920 of times. 91 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:07.720 Yeah, right right, Oh, that we can save that one 92 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:11.759 for This is actually Emil's first studio scene with Pantheon. Men, 93 00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:16.439 you had already been doing your personal content stuff before 94 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:20.199 you started with studio, that is correct. How was it 95 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:22.399 going into studio work? 96 00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:26.480 Certainly different? Okay, But I feel like if I had 97 00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:30.000 not done personal stuff beforehand, it would have been jarring 98 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:33.759 to go from a person who has had sex before 99 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:37.959 being a person who is getting paid to have sex 100 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:40.120 on camera, like by a studio, by. 101 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:42.560 A studio, yes, yes, exactly, camera person. 102 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:47.319 Yes, a camera person, someone that has been like decided 103 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:50.000 for me to have a scene with, as opposed to 104 00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:52.240 you know, reaching out to people that I think are 105 00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:56.800 hot and being like, let's do the deed on camera, Yeah. 106 00:05:56.439 --> 00:05:58.879 Make it special. That was kind of yours as well, right, Cole, 107 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:01.399 You started an only fan and then got a studio gig. 108 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:04.839 Well, I started mid October twenty twenty, and then I 109 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:09.160 shot something like almost every day for all of November, 110 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:13.639 and then I seen, like December fifth. 111 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:15.879 A true workhorse, this one. Yeah, it's true, it's great. 112 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:18.519 Yeah, but I was having fun. I was like having 113 00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:19.079 a good time. 114 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:22.839 That's pretty fast, though, to go from personal content to studio. 115 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:26.040 Yeah, I mean well, Tony DeMarco reached out to me 116 00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:28.800 because a couple of people told him about me and 117 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:29.759 wanted me in something. 118 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:32.240 They said, you've got to work with this slut. He's 119 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:37.560 hard working and very talented, well as a twelve year 120 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:40.920 veteran of this industry as old as the Hills, as 121 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:43.600 I've been called by my closest friends, who all happened 122 00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:46.439 to be ten plus years younger than me. Anyway, Yeah, 123 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:50.600 I started in studio, and you're right, it is weird, 124 00:06:50.680 --> 00:06:52.959 but it was like, you know, I had a background, 125 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:55.120 a little bit of you know, making movies here and 126 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:59.000 there for friends and you know, if you're thirty one 127 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:00.839 and horny, and they actually gave me. They were like, 128 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:02.720 we're gonna pair you with this one. What do you think? 129 00:07:02.759 --> 00:07:05.720 And I was like, uh, drool, yes please. And my 130 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:07.879 first I don't know if you know this, Emil, but 131 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:12.800 my first studio scene was essentially a saw ripoff, so 132 00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:14.920 I also had to act scared. 133 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:15.959 Oh wow. 134 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:19.279 Yeah. They threw me into this cell with this ravenous 135 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:21.959 you know, person who had been in there for a 136 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:25.319 long time was stex sex starved. And I don't know 137 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:27.959 if Tom one, I don't think it's called whole two. 138 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:31.000 And I immediately was on the center of that DVD 139 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:33.680 because yes, this was the days of DVD porn. Does 140 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:36.759 Tony DeMarco listen to this podcast? I kind of doubt it, 141 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:39.639 but it okay? He I mean, I'm guessing this is 142 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:42.720 why he never hired me again. It's possibly, and it 143 00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:45.680 could be because he didn't work with Raging Stout anymore. 144 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:49.519 Steve Cruz took over, but essentially I kept fighting him 145 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:51.800 a little bit because he was like, Okay, so now 146 00:07:51.879 --> 00:07:54.439 you're gonna act scared because we threw you into this cell. 147 00:07:54.959 --> 00:07:58.560 But then when you start engaging with this sex starved stranger, 148 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:01.879 make sure you you shove his head to your dick 149 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:04.079 and shove your dick in his mouth and start throat 150 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:06.720 fucking him. And I kind of was like, that doesn't 151 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:12.639 make sense. How wouldn't he be doing that to me? 152 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:15.600 Wink wink. And it didn't work. 153 00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:18.360 You know what, I feel threatened. There's the fight flight 154 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:20.439 and then a little known third one fuck. 155 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:23.759 Fuck yes, throat fuck especially yes, Yeah, I'm gonna you're 156 00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:26.519 you give me that mouth, stranger, I'm scared of you, 157 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:29.839 but here I'm gonna shove my dick your mouth anyway. Well, 158 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:34.200 so cool, you have been a beautiful presence in this industry. 159 00:08:34.279 --> 00:08:36.440 I feel like everyone I know who's worked with you 160 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:39.240 really enjoys it. That was sort of how we met. 161 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:42.000 We you know, I had seen your Instagram stuff. You 162 00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:44.039 moved to Los Angeles and several people were like, you 163 00:08:44.039 --> 00:08:47.120 gotta work with this person, and yeah, great job. 164 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:47.919 Thanks. 165 00:08:48.279 --> 00:08:52.240 Let's get into some of the makings of Emil Jamison. 166 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:55.039 We're gonna start with where you were born and how 167 00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:55.720 you grew up. 168 00:08:55.879 --> 00:08:59.080 I was born in Akron, Ohio, which is near Cleveland, 169 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:05.480 kind of northeastern Ohioho. Yes, wait, Ohio boy, I'm from Kentucky. 170 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:06.639 Okay ALMOSTO. 171 00:09:06.799 --> 00:09:10.759 I've been and I usually know where I've where a 172 00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:12.360 city is if I've been. 173 00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:18.879 There, right, huh usually good? Impressive. 174 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:19.440 Yes. 175 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:26.279 I grew up in a very religious household. My dad 176 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:29.600 is a pastor. He has been my whole life. When 177 00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:32.080 I was three months old, my family moved to Prague. 178 00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:34.720 My parents are missionaries there for four years, and then 179 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:36.240 we moved back to Ohio. 180 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:39.440 Spreading the word of God. So you only lived in 181 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:41.919 Prague from two to six? Is that what you said? 182 00:09:42.039 --> 00:09:43.960 No, from three months old until I was four? 183 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:46.720 Oh? Gotcha? So you don't really remember living in Prague. 184 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:49.639 I mean my first memories are from there. Okay, but like, 185 00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:52.840 I don't know, how do you classify memories. 186 00:09:55.399 --> 00:09:57.799 When you think when you think of like what makes 187 00:09:57.799 --> 00:10:00.519 you say that you have your first memories are from there? 188 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:01.559 Like what is the memory? 189 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:05.919 I mean like being at a market in the old 190 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:09.679 town square and like the linoleum in our apartment, and 191 00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:12.559 like memories with my dad of like just playing. 192 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:15.039 I said, do you have memories from when you were four? 193 00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:15.840 I probably do? 194 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:18.879 Yeah, yeah, like yeah, swing set things, yeah, like the 195 00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:19.519 other kids. 196 00:10:19.559 --> 00:10:22.879 Yeah, there's some random blips of right, they're random little blips. 197 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:26.559 Yeah. So then you moved back to Akron, yes, and you. 198 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:29.039 Were there for how long until I was eighteen? 199 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:31.639 Until you're eighteen? And what was it like being a 200 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:34.519 young gay boy in Akron? Slash teenager? 201 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:35.799 Very confusing? 202 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:37.039 Okay, talk about it. 203 00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:43.320 I knew I was gay when I was a normal age, 204 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:44.360 like eleven or twelve? 205 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:49.080 Really? Yeah, may I ask how? Like what was knowing 206 00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:49.840 that at eleven? 207 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:52.440 Like yeah, uh, there were just boys that I had 208 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:55.720 crushes on, huh. And I was like, well, if I 209 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:58.000 make myself try really hard, I can have a crush 210 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:01.559 on a girl. But it's way easier and a lot 211 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:03.600 more terrifying having crushes on boys. 212 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:06.000 Did you experiment with boys like at that age? 213 00:11:06.279 --> 00:11:10.240 No? No, no, absolutely terrified to do that. So it 214 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:13.240 was just like the secret that I harbored for a 215 00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:17.519 while and then my dad actually outed me when I 216 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:22.559 was eighteen, right before high school graduation. This is like 217 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:25.480 really shady of him. He had installed this like parental 218 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:30.279 I don't know, parental control, yeah, on the computer. And 219 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:33.240 it wasn't a thing that prevented you from going to 220 00:11:33.399 --> 00:11:37.240 any inappropriate website. It let you go there, it spied. 221 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:40.600 It just told him that I went there. Yeah, he 222 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:43.120 just checked the search history. Oh no, I deleted the 223 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:45.399 search history. But it would just be like if you 224 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:47.080 went to one of these websites, it would send him 225 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:49.080 an email and be like this website was accessed. 226 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:50.600 What were the websites? 227 00:11:51.399 --> 00:11:54.600 They were like the softest core porn websites. 228 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:56.799 It was like, don't say any by name since we 229 00:11:57.120 --> 00:11:59.440 apparently sure. 230 00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:02.840 Oh yeah, okay, I mean, but I don't remember what 231 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:05.039 I mean, Like, I'm just curious what the content was like. 232 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:09.240 It was literally just like still images of naked men. 233 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:13.840 I don't think I like saw gay sex until I 234 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:15.279 was like twenty. 235 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:17.480 Okay, yeah, I was late to that party too. 236 00:12:17.559 --> 00:12:19.200 I feel like, yeah, when I first thought, I was 237 00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:20.480 like in the butt? 238 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:22.279 What? 239 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:23.639 Yeah? 240 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:26.799 And I was like, that's that's a. 241 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:36.200 Lot, that's gross. I would never Let's see, did you 242 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:39.279 have exposure to any other kind of sexual content in 243 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.080 your like formative years or teenage years, Like did you 244 00:12:42.120 --> 00:12:44.240 see movies or straight porn? 245 00:12:44.360 --> 00:12:44.480 No? 246 00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:50.639 I was extremely sheltered. Okay, I had an older sister. Okay, yeah, yeah, 247 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:55.759 extremely sheltered, hyper obedient. As a child, like fully drank 248 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:59.559 the Christian kool aid and was like if a little 249 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:03.279 kid can be really judgmental and like a total prude, 250 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:06.440 that was me. Yeah, I was like little Bible thumper kid. 251 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:09.519 Can I ask a question that I have not talked 252 00:13:09.679 --> 00:13:11.399 to a lot of people about this, and maybe you 253 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:14.559 guys can help me understand if you experienced this as well. 254 00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:18.960 I know of myself and of several others times when 255 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:23.039 we might have said something negative about gay people or 256 00:13:23.080 --> 00:13:25.840 gay sex just to kind of like cover up, and 257 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:29.279 I had like weird guilt about it. Did you ever 258 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:32.240 have moments like that where you were like extra judgmental 259 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:34.919 of the of the gay experience or like gay people 260 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:40.679 or gay content you had seen on on on like TV. Yeah, 261 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:43.879 I like, you know, that's gross. I can think of 262 00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:48.279 a couple of those things. And it was actually just 263 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:51.960 toward individuals like in your life. 264 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:56.080 Yeah, people I like was in high school with, oh, 265 00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:59.120 were like I don't think I ever said anything bad 266 00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:02.799 about them, but I knew my opinion of them. Honestly, 267 00:14:02.840 --> 00:14:04.440 I don't think it was like to cover up the 268 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:10.759 fact that I was gay. It was more the fact that, man, 269 00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:11.639 this is getting. 270 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:14.799 Like you were like, so you were like so invested 271 00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:17.679 in the in the drinking of the coolest Yes, yeah, 272 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:20.159 like that you actually believed the propaganda exactly. 273 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:25.039 Yea, So I was gonna say, this is getting like serious. 274 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:27.639 That's what great like tell us the truth. 275 00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:30.519 This is something that I've thought about a lot and 276 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:33.559 have had to like write lots of versions of this town. 277 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:37.080 But what I realized after coming out and after leaving 278 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:40.919 the church was that what I believed was that if 279 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:44.240 someone didn't hate me as much as I hated myself, 280 00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:47.960 then they didn't love me. And it was this weird, 281 00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:52.519 twisted construct of love that I had that was actually 282 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:56.399 just self hate. And so I hated the thing in myself, 283 00:14:56.440 --> 00:14:58.879 so I hated the thing in other people, right, And 284 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:03.320 so I thought that I was like doing them an 285 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:06.279 act of love by hating the thing that I saw 286 00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:09.320 as sin. And it's all kind of mental gymnastics, but 287 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:15.279 that is so much of what is taught as morality 288 00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:18.000 in evangelical spaces, right. 289 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:22.240 Wow, what was the process of like of like getting 290 00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:23.279 out of that mindset. 291 00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:26.279 I had some friends in college who I think were 292 00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:31.559 realizing that I was gay before I was acknowledging it, 293 00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:35.600 like I knew it but was not willing to accept it, 294 00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:39.399 and I think they were just like, he's gay, like whatever. 295 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:42.600 And I went to a not super conservative Christian college, 296 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:44.759 but a Christian college, so it was still just like 297 00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:47.440 a m we're not sure if we like gays, but 298 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:50.320 like most of the student body was like, yeah, it's 299 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:54.960 fine whatever. And I knew from conversations that they had 300 00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:57.399 that they were like, yes, being gay is fine whatever. 301 00:15:57.799 --> 00:16:01.840 And I was like, oh no, I have this construct 302 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:04.960 inside me of like if you're not supporting me in 303 00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:07.720 me trying to kill this part of myself, then you 304 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:08.279 don't love me. 305 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:09.039 Wow. 306 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:13.039 Insane. So I like broke off those friendships and didn't 307 00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:16.799 really know why. I like tried to rationalize it to myself. Yeah, 308 00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:19.600 and it really did take me like years to figure 309 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:23.519 out these people were so good to me, why did 310 00:16:23.559 --> 00:16:28.519 I feel so let down by them? And so it 311 00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:33.080 was just thinking through all of that that finally came 312 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:36.279 to that realization that it was just this twisted, sick 313 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:39.200 sense of love and hate together. 314 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:42.080 I don't know, I think for me it was like 315 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:45.759 for what I like, what I've come to understand is 316 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:51.039 that like because I fought it, and like I didn't 317 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:54.240 want to be honest with myself about being gay. I 318 00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:58.559 think that comes off to other people as you being 319 00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:03.960 dishonest and not authentic, and people aren't attracted to that. Like, 320 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:07.960 I don't think what I maybe felt as or could 321 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:13.119 look at as homophobia now was really just someone being like, oh, 322 00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:18.480 this guy's just kind of full of Shitay. 323 00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:19.480 So wait, did you answer Cole's question about like what 324 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:21.240 it took to kind of get out of Like it 325 00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:26.640 took a lot of thought, a lot of thought, thot thought. 326 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:31.240 Yeah, no, I after college, So like I came out 327 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:35.440 at the end of college, had this accidental boyfriend, and 328 00:17:35.480 --> 00:17:39.720 then moved moved abroad to Lithuania and went back in 329 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:41.960 the closet. And while I was there, there were like 330 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:46.279 no churches in English, so I just stopped going to 331 00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:50.160 church and was away from my family for an extended 332 00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:53.240 period of time for the first time in my life, 333 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:58.039 and had experienced being out and then experienced going back 334 00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:00.359 in and all of that was kind of traumatic, but 335 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:02.920 in the best way. And it just kind of like 336 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:05.960 I realized you didn't believe this shit anymore. I was 337 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:10.200 just like, I just want to like suck a dick, amen, sister. 338 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:15.119 And it was honestly this like tear. I felt myself 339 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:18.839 like standing on a cliff of like, Okay, if I 340 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.960 step off, either nothing's going to change or I'm going 341 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:26.200 to turn into the worst cinner imaginable and I'm going 342 00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:28.920 straight to hell. And really nothing changed. 343 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:31.480 So do you remember the first dick you sucked? Yes? 344 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:32.920 Who was it? 345 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:34.559 Am I allowed to say names? You? 346 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:37.440 I mean, you can talk about the penis itself? 347 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:41.000 Well, no, no, I want to maybe the scenario of 348 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:43.559 who this person was, how his dick laid it in 349 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:43.920 your mouth? 350 00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:48.960 Is the gym showers in Kyoga Falls, Ohio at the 351 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:55.920 former La Fitness when you were how old twenty three 352 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:56.359 or four. 353 00:18:56.519 --> 00:19:00.759 So was this after college or after Can you tell 354 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:02.359 us what you were doing in Lithuania. 355 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:05.880 I was working for a university that had a study 356 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:11.480 abroad program, So I was traveling around the States and 357 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:17.599 Canada to recruit university students to study abroad in Lithuania. 358 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:22.079 So I spent six to seven weeks every semester traveling 359 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:25.359 around the US and then I would go back to 360 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:28.960 Lithuania and basically act as a cultural guide or chaperone 361 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:30.519 to the students that were studying there. 362 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:31.400 Oh wow, So I. 363 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:34.599 Had done this program a few years earlier, so I 364 00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:37.039 was like familiar with the school, with the culture, with 365 00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:39.200 the language to some degree. 366 00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:42.680 And is Lithuania a hard place to be gay? Yes? 367 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:45.160 Oh so that's why you were felt like you were 368 00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:46.039 forced back in the club. 369 00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:50.799 It was a Christian university. Lithuania itself is just quite conservative, 370 00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:53.960 especially where I was in the capital maybe a little 371 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:56.480 bit different, but I was on the coast of the 372 00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.720 Baltic Sea and it was much more conservative. 373 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:04.480 Wow. Okay, And then you came back to Akron and 374 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:07.119 sucked your first dick because you were like, wow, that 375 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:09.839 was a long time not being gay. Time to jump 376 00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:13.279 back in and how did that feel? Was their shame 377 00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:14.839 or was there more like liberation? 378 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:16.680 Oh my god, I was shaking with excitement. 379 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:19.960 You know what. The first time that I was with 380 00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:23.400 a man, I was literally like hyperventilating. I think, yeah, 381 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:26.160 for sure. Yeah, I was so scared and so excited. 382 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:29.559 And I also remember the first dick I sucked. It 383 00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:35.599 was a man from Louisiana, ginger rugby body. It was 384 00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:37.680 in Washington, d C. And the dorms that I was 385 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:41.240 staying in when I had internships dorms, Thank god for those. 386 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:45.119 My lord, who was the first dick you sucked? Cole Connor? 387 00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:49.279 Oh, man, I'm not sure if I like because I 388 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:53.799 was struggling with it. I think my first few experiences 389 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:58.880 with gay secks were like blackout drunk, so then I 390 00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:01.119 could be like, oh that was at me, that was just. 391 00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:06.480 Like that was I was so fucked up. I could 392 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:07.240 rationalize that. 393 00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:07.799 Boy. 394 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.400 But I do remember meeting a guy, and this was 395 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:16.640 in Lexington. It was probably before I moved, doesn't Yeah, 396 00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:17.000 it doesn't. 397 00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:18.799 It was probably when I was like twenty one. 398 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:22.599 He had the same name as me, the same birthday, Whoa, 399 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:25.920 And we spent all night fucking and I never saw 400 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:26.400 him again. 401 00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:28.200