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Thomas, Hey, how are you doing? 21 00:01:53,359 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 2: I'm doing very well. 22 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: Thanks for hosting me, of course, well, this is a 23 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:03,719 subject that came out of a Twitter conversation, but it's 24 00:02:03,719 --> 00:02:06,280 a subject that I've talked about a lot in the past, 25 00:02:06,359 --> 00:02:09,520 and I know you have some very strong opinions on. 26 00:02:09,719 --> 00:02:15,039 So let's get into this. Let's talk about the police. 27 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 2: The thing to keep in mind is that modern policing 28 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:31,680 it's it's it's as structured like as we conceptualize it 29 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:36,280 here in the United States as a subject of recent vintage. 30 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,280 People seem to this idea. I mean, there's all kinds 31 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,319 of mythologies are on the modern state that somewhat deliberately 32 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,879 have been cultivated to try and seem it into people. 33 00:02:46,879 --> 00:02:50,319 It's idea that these features are perennial, like structurally, I 34 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:55,400 mean as well as ethically when they're not. So when 35 00:02:55,439 --> 00:02:59,000 you raise the issue with people that modern policing is 36 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:00,680 kind of run its core or so it's kind of 37 00:03:00,719 --> 00:03:02,960 being phased out. Like people seem to think one of 38 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,840 two things. If they don't know me and are particularly 39 00:03:05,879 --> 00:03:12,960 sophisticated on you know, political sociology and and things like that, 40 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,680 they have this idea that I'm I'm forwarding some some 41 00:03:17,039 --> 00:03:19,520 you know, some minrapist argument like I want the police 42 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,000 to go away and they don't have a mandate. I'm 43 00:03:22,039 --> 00:03:24,439 not saying that. I mean that that whether they're true 44 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,680 or not doesn't matter, or they think of suggesting that 45 00:03:28,759 --> 00:03:34,800 this kind of lump and revolt, however contrived and you know, 46 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:42,520 cultivated by by by organized political interests, it's just going 47 00:03:42,599 --> 00:03:44,759 to be like, you know, like public frust is going 48 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,479 to be such that, you know, police departments become so 49 00:03:47,639 --> 00:03:50,599 kind of gilded and defanged verbally speaking, that they can 50 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,319 no longer implement the mandate, that mandate that they've been granted. 51 00:03:55,479 --> 00:03:58,520 I'm not I'm not saying that either, Okay, Like what 52 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,319 I'm saying is that in structure terms, this is something 53 00:04:03,319 --> 00:04:11,400 that's run its course, Okay. And increasingly police functions are 54 00:04:11,439 --> 00:04:16,680 going to continue to collapse and do what in the 55 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,079 post Cold War era has been viewed as kind of 56 00:04:19,079 --> 00:04:26,120 military and general security functions. Police services are going to 57 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:31,519 be increasingly privatized. You know, there's gonna be less and 58 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:39,319 less of a distinction between the domains where in armed 59 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:48,600 force enjoys legitimacy, either conditional legitimacy or an absolute sovereign capacity. Okay. 60 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,360 And this is an extricably bound up with the modern 61 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:58,199 state as it exists today being really rather obsolete, Okay, 62 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,639 But to understand and then to like kind of what 63 00:05:01,759 --> 00:05:05,600 these exigencies are that are are presenting these kinds of 64 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:10,480 challenges to police departments, particularly big city police forces, not exclusively. 65 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,680 It's not just a matter of like you know, post 66 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:24,759 George Floyd sentiment and kind of political narratives like those 67 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,279 narratives were able to take a rude on grounds the 68 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:34,000 phenomenon I'm talking about, Okay, you know, and I think 69 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:40,439 this is all very ill understood. But you I think 70 00:05:40,439 --> 00:05:44,319 the point a lot that the American system like really 71 00:05:44,319 --> 00:05:50,560 mirrors the UK system, you know, politically and otherwise. The father, 72 00:05:50,959 --> 00:06:01,360 quite literally of of modern policing was Robert Keel. He 73 00:06:01,439 --> 00:06:05,120 was also kind of the founder of the modern Conservative 74 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:11,040 Party in Britain. Like the Tories existed before Peel's tenure 75 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:18,160 as Prime minister, and he was he was Prime Minister twice, 76 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,920 but he he kind of brought the party into the 77 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,160 you know, into the end of the modern age in 78 00:06:26,199 --> 00:06:33,040 a lot of ways, okay, and controlling populations at scale, 79 00:06:34,319 --> 00:06:40,600 particularly in a divided society, that's really kind of the 80 00:06:40,639 --> 00:06:48,800 conditions president for a modern police department. Okay, and make 81 00:06:48,879 --> 00:06:52,079 a mistake. The UK is a uniquely divided society and 82 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,199 it always has been. Okay, That's one of many parallels 83 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:01,000 between America and the UK. It's it's not just anglical 84 00:07:01,079 --> 00:07:05,839 and cultural foundations. You know, there's divisions in the UK 85 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,639 that there's not in there weren't in in Germany when 86 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,000 Germany was uh, you know, in that brief period it was, 87 00:07:12,079 --> 00:07:15,720 it was unified. But also with sovereign republic, there's there's 88 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:20,319 there's institutionalized divisions there that that don't exist in France. Okay, 89 00:07:23,279 --> 00:07:28,319 And this this bears directly on on Peel's mandate and 90 00:07:28,319 --> 00:07:30,800 and why he proceeded the way he did and devising 91 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:38,319 the first real urban police department. Peel was born into money. 92 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:44,120 His father, uh was a career politician, but he'd made 93 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,600 a fortune and textile manufacturing. So Peel and his whole 94 00:07:48,639 --> 00:07:51,879 family they were kind of insinuated into the They both 95 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,240 had like one foot kind of in the old nobility. 96 00:07:54,279 --> 00:07:57,680 And I think, uh, I think Peel was a there 97 00:07:57,759 --> 00:07:59,839 was a there was a baronet and a barony in 98 00:07:59,879 --> 00:08:02,720 his name, but he also very much was part of 99 00:08:02,759 --> 00:08:08,920 the kind of nascent you know, industrial producer class. You know, 100 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,519 and his education and flid that too, you know. He 101 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:17,519 took a degree both in classics and in mathematics. The 102 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,199 first entered the House of Commons as a very young guy, 103 00:08:20,759 --> 00:08:23,759 I think around twenty two years old, eighteen oh nine. 104 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,160 But where he really kind of made his bones, as 105 00:08:27,199 --> 00:08:30,920 it were, as kind of a it's kind of a 106 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:36,000 political manager and fixer. It was his home secretary, you know. 107 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,879 In home secretary, especially in those days kind of at 108 00:08:38,879 --> 00:08:41,600 the zenith of the empire, it was a very important role, 109 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:46,799 you know, and the mandate was very broad, and it 110 00:08:46,879 --> 00:08:51,159 attracted not just ambitious men, but also a lot of 111 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:58,480 men who had ideas about you know, the sociological nature 112 00:08:58,519 --> 00:09:03,440 and the mandate that the office carried with it, you know. 113 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:10,919 And he started out as kind of a conventional old 114 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:20,799 school Tory. Initially, he very much was behind the institutionalized 115 00:09:21,279 --> 00:09:26,919 discrimination against Catholics. He did a one to eighty on that. 116 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:32,360 And this wasn't just for cynical reasons, because otherwise he 117 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,039 wouldn't have stuck to his guns from the way he 118 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:39,960 did on these kinds of matters of equity and social matters. 119 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:48,639 He sponsored the Catholic Relief Act of eighteen twenty eight, 120 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,279 which for all pradibal purposes repealed was coloquially known as 121 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:59,639 the Test Act, which had banned Catholics from basically all 122 00:10:00,799 --> 00:10:04,759 manner of government service, as well as making sure they 123 00:10:04,759 --> 00:10:08,279 didn't get officers commissions in the British Army that would 124 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:13,799 have put them in instead influence you know, policy in 125 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:21,720 in the in the outer Empire. This is very institutionalized. Okay, 126 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:28,559 that's not just something that Fanians say or that you know, 127 00:10:28,639 --> 00:10:31,440 kind of like old school like you know, what remains 128 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,559 like you know, the kind of vestigial cadre of of 129 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:40,440 old school labor party types who you know who who 130 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,200 emphasized that is, you know, being like a key tenant 131 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:48,000 of the Tories as being this this party sectarian bigotry. 132 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:53,039 You know, it actually was. The the UK was Rabbi Leani 133 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,159 Catholic until the twentieth century. In a lot of ways 134 00:10:56,159 --> 00:10:59,879 they still are. Obviously, the situation has come amplex in 135 00:11:00,039 --> 00:11:02,519 in ways it wasn't because you know, it's it's no 136 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,840 longer a sovereign country and there's this kind of constellation 137 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:12,320 of ethnicities that that don't have any meaningful you know, 138 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:21,120 historical experience in the UK. But you know. Incidentally, the 139 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:26,120 reason why, like in the UK, you know, cops are 140 00:11:26,159 --> 00:11:28,879 called Bobby's because you know of Robert Peel and then 141 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,720 also they're called Peelers, which is interesting. I think there's 142 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,919 you know, uh, the former kind of treats like like 143 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,840 almost it just like a mascot role. The ladder, you know, 144 00:11:40,919 --> 00:11:43,519 kind of kind of suggests that they're ops, like you know, 145 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,840 it's I think it's kind of telling the nuances in 146 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:54,559 the English language that uh, I think I'm re subtle 147 00:11:54,639 --> 00:11:59,360 and some people will allow, but you know, at the 148 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,120 end of the day, what I'm getting is what is 149 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,960 what what is peals, what appeals kind of progressive ideas 150 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,399 about you know, the treatment of Catholics. And to be 151 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:20,840 clear too, nonconformist Protestants were included in in these in 152 00:12:20,919 --> 00:12:26,759 these test Acts, and we're technically precluded from like many 153 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,039 of the same roles and being available to a lot 154 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:34,399 of the same benefits and institutions as Catholics were. But 155 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,120 slowly but surely there were de fact when the jury 156 00:12:38,159 --> 00:12:44,279 exceptions carved out, particularly as a situation in Ireland deteriorated. 157 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:50,720 But you know, there was a the law really from 158 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:57,159 from the time of of like the English Reformation, you 159 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,840 know until kind of the end of the nineteenth century, 160 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,000 Like in every way it was tailored to kind of 161 00:13:02,039 --> 00:13:07,960 guarantee that this like Anglican hegemony, you know, like culturally, economically, 162 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:09,399 like in every conceivable way. 163 00:13:09,639 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: Okay, can I let me interrupt. Yes, were the Jews 164 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:15,960 included in US? 165 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,759 Speaker 2: Yes, But it was complicated because like it wasn't like 166 00:13:21,759 --> 00:13:24,480 a lot of it was unsaid in the case of 167 00:13:24,519 --> 00:13:26,759 the Jews. And it's not like there was some party. 168 00:13:28,039 --> 00:13:33,919 It's not like there was some like formal revolutionary cadre, 169 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,240 but that was like a Jewish fraternal organization that that 170 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:42,159 also you know, had the power to kind of like 171 00:13:42,279 --> 00:13:45,720 impact like legislation in the commons. Like there was the 172 00:13:45,879 --> 00:13:49,000 fact though, but this also that even that wasn't as 173 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,679 deep as people think. Before the white thing, before the 174 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,559 twentieth century, it was just kind of like a non factor. 175 00:13:54,919 --> 00:13:57,879 That's not like this Israeli became the prime minister like 176 00:13:57,919 --> 00:14:03,159 Grant did. Disraeli was he wasn't like Kissinger in terms 177 00:14:03,159 --> 00:14:07,240 of his personality or in terms of his values, but uh, 178 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,039 he was kind of the Jewish Londoner who it sort 179 00:14:11,039 --> 00:14:16,519 of shed his ethnosectarian skin in real ways, he wasn't 180 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:21,320 just some morno, you know. But that's a whole different issue, 181 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:26,960 and the way that was dealt with was a whole 182 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,519 different body of like custom and things that that didn't 183 00:14:31,559 --> 00:14:36,720 have to do with you know, Christian sectarianism. It's it's 184 00:14:36,759 --> 00:14:39,759 a totally iron thing, and we get into that, but 185 00:14:39,799 --> 00:14:42,000 it's if we should do it in another series because 186 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:49,360 it doesn't really bear on this. But the uh, the 187 00:14:49,399 --> 00:14:52,440 writing on the wall and what ultimately happened of course, 188 00:14:52,559 --> 00:14:57,080 on the heels of World War One in Ireland, like 189 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,799 pel realized like there was gonna be a real problem 190 00:14:59,879 --> 00:15:06,159 he or it's kind of like perfect storm of of 191 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:10,519 an increasingly radical labor movement that was also increasingly mobilized, 192 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,440 the threat of general strike at the core of the Empire, 193 00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:21,080 which in turn could touch off a sort of wildfire 194 00:15:21,159 --> 00:15:25,200 effect that would spread to you know, the Colored dominions, 195 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:32,559 and on top of that, you know, an open cientarian 196 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:38,120 revolt in Ireland and in London and in Liverpool and 197 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,720 in these major urban centers in the UK proper, like 198 00:15:42,759 --> 00:15:44,919 the British Home Islands, I mean Ireland obvis is part 199 00:15:44,919 --> 00:15:48,879 of the UK, then too wherein there were you know, 200 00:15:48,879 --> 00:15:55,080 there were ghetto Wiis Catholics who you know, apprecia appreciable 201 00:15:55,200 --> 00:16:01,519 numbers of them. This this could have been a real bloodbath, 202 00:16:01,799 --> 00:16:08,919 figurative and literal. And it was a frailty that people 203 00:16:08,919 --> 00:16:12,840 were aware of, like men in government and you know, 204 00:16:12,919 --> 00:16:17,480 men insinuated not just into titled society type roles, but 205 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,120 who actually had clout and power. You know, they realized 206 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,440 that there was a real danger here and these people 207 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:31,480 had to be brought into the fold and made, if 208 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:36,679 not patriotic, made to believe in good faith terms, that 209 00:16:36,679 --> 00:16:38,879 they had enough of a stake in the enterprise that 210 00:16:38,879 --> 00:16:44,039 they wouldn't try to burn it down. And a modern 211 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:49,440 police force is devised by Peel and as well as 212 00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:59,799 you know in America, like you know Peel's counterparts in 213 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:04,240 the post reconstruction era. You know, they they had the 214 00:17:04,279 --> 00:17:10,599 same thing on their mind, you know, modern policing. It's 215 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:14,039 it's not just it doesn't just owe to the peculiar 216 00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:21,400 exigencies of having to manage theretofore you know on uh 217 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:31,400 unthinkably highly scaled and complex urban environments which you know, 218 00:17:31,519 --> 00:17:34,160 basically how is you know, one hundreds of thousands or 219 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,920 millions of workers that staff the national economy, like the 220 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:42,400 way to manage that sociologically and politically, and the way 221 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:51,039 to suppress the instincts towards revolutionary violence. They're you know, 222 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,359 intrinsic to these populations and the conditions they find themselves. 223 00:17:54,839 --> 00:17:57,920 They were part of redelicate balancing, and you couldn't just 224 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,039 treat these people, you know, like uh, like one might 225 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,599 you know, Cooley's revolting in in in India or something 226 00:18:06,559 --> 00:18:09,119 like politically aside in the fact, you don't do that anyway, 227 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,680 you know, if if you live in you know, if 228 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,680 you live in like a Western society of the era, 229 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,880 but it's also politically it would not have been tenable, 230 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:29,599 you know, you know, for contexts prior to that, in 231 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,960 lieu of a police department, you know, there were night 232 00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:37,799 watchmen going back to the medieval period who quite literally 233 00:18:37,839 --> 00:18:41,039 post up you know, when the when the town gates 234 00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:44,720 were closed to keep watch out for marauders or for 235 00:18:45,319 --> 00:18:48,680 military enemies or or any or for fires, you know, 236 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:54,480 literally fire watch. And uh that was you know, essentially 237 00:18:54,480 --> 00:19:00,160 a communitarian volunteer role for younger men. I mean, there 238 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,440 was some kind of stipend and compensation of a nominal sort, 239 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,880 but you know, it was basically derivative of a communitarian impulse. 240 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:14,119 And in the case of of the court, if there 241 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,000 was a wanted man, you know, before the King's bench, 242 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:22,680 or in America, you know, before the you know, who 243 00:19:22,759 --> 00:19:25,119 was being hailed in the criminal court by the municipality, 244 00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:30,039 there were constables in bailiffs who were on duty full time, 245 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,240 or you know, you deputize, you deputize a man of 246 00:19:33,319 --> 00:19:36,880 good standing, sometimes even a man who was a lawyer. 247 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,839 You know, okay, you know, get a posse together and 248 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,440 go fetch this bastard, you know, bring him here, like 249 00:19:44,519 --> 00:19:50,039 literally bring him into court. You know, there was so 250 00:19:50,079 --> 00:19:52,240 I mean that that that essentially took care of it. 251 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,799 And you know, this idea that there's this kind of 252 00:19:55,799 --> 00:20:02,119 permanently mobilized armed force that is insinuated into the community 253 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:06,359 but also outside of it that literally patrols in this 254 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,799 kind of permanent you know, it creates like a permanent 255 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:16,119 visible presence like that didn't exist before. And one of 256 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,759 the things that caused so many problems for the police 257 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:24,519 is that a little over a century on into this 258 00:20:24,519 --> 00:20:31,759 like urban policing model, which not coincidentally was a concomonant 259 00:20:31,799 --> 00:20:37,079 with you know, the war on drugs. The police became 260 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,160 this They ceased to be this communitarian element, and they 261 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:48,240 ceased to be this kind of symbolic sociological governing mechanism, 262 00:20:49,279 --> 00:20:55,920 like they became this kind of secretive, hostile element that 263 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,759 cultivated its own alienage visa via the community that it 264 00:20:59,799 --> 00:21:04,839 was responsible for regulating. You know. And this wasn't some 265 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:10,079 conspiracy We're getting a lot of ourselves. It owed the 266 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:16,279 realities of the Cold War. It owed you, you know, 267 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:22,200 the nature of criminality at scale in the late twentieth century. 268 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:27,079 It owed the inability of social problems to be resolved 269 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:38,000 by truly communitarian structures and as as authority, as official authority, 270 00:21:38,839 --> 00:21:44,799 both localized as well as you know, in absolutely sovereign terms, 271 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,440 you know, that would chandl like a dominion over the 272 00:21:47,559 --> 00:21:56,200 entire entirety and territorial territorial space of the country. You know, 273 00:21:56,279 --> 00:21:59,000 they they didn't know what to do about these things. 274 00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:06,039 So their fallback was on this enforcement mechanism that had 275 00:22:06,039 --> 00:22:11,240 the widest and the deepest mandate perverbially speaking, you know, 276 00:22:11,319 --> 00:22:15,160 to regulate human behavior and conduct at scale and to 277 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:20,000 bring to bear punitive sanctions on people who were unwilling 278 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:27,440 to comply with these edicts, be them like moral or 279 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:32,519 pragmatic or both, And that creates kind of a perfect 280 00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:36,960 store of hostilities, you know. But we're not quite there yet, 281 00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:43,960 but we'll get there as this goes on. To take 282 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,519 it back from it, to be clear too, about these 283 00:22:47,599 --> 00:22:54,839 test Acts and these laws governing the rights of peoples 284 00:22:54,880 --> 00:23:00,039 owing to their sectarian confession. This wasn't just superficial. It 285 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,440 wasn't just something that wasn't really enforced except on a 286 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:08,640 capricious manner when the authorities saw fit to, you know, 287 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:21,559 deprive somebody of of upward mobility for some discreete political 288 00:23:21,599 --> 00:23:24,519 reason only to emergent crisis or something. I mean, this 289 00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:30,559 was very much a staple of of of the sociological structure, 290 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:39,000 you know, and it basically people supported it. You know, 291 00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:46,680 if you weren't taking communion in the Anglican Church, you 292 00:23:48,759 --> 00:23:53,759 basically were excluded from public life, you know, and even 293 00:23:53,839 --> 00:23:58,160 if you claimed uh to not be a practicing kid like, 294 00:23:58,559 --> 00:24:02,039 even if you weren't if you were not actively engaged 295 00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:03,799 with the Anglican Church, and if you do not have 296 00:24:03,839 --> 00:24:06,599 a family pedigree, whether you were rich or poor or 297 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:16,359 neither that demonstrably was was Anglican. You were reviewed as 298 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:22,240 a as an accusant, okay, and you were reviewed as 299 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:29,759 somebody who is not to be trusted, and your neighbors 300 00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:32,359 would probably whisper that you were some kind of secret Fenian, 301 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,039 even even if even if you were ethnically Irish, you know. 302 00:24:39,519 --> 00:24:44,880 And again, like I said, nonconformists were included in these 303 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:53,599 measures too, But the Indemnity Act of seventeen twenty seven 304 00:24:54,440 --> 00:25:00,279 alleviated some of these formal sanctions. But there's a there's 305 00:25:00,319 --> 00:25:03,920 a complex history and kind of and like rather perverse 306 00:25:04,039 --> 00:25:10,519 history between nonconformists and Anglicans that endoors really until recent 307 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,240 memory with the troubles. But that's I raised this because 308 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,920 that's my own heritage, and like I don't must they 309 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,000 like he Michael Jones, he's gotta have it when he 310 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,519 says Protestants, he's talking about Anglicans, and I I don't 311 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,039 appreciate that, and not sex not to have what something 312 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:32,799 is Anglicans, but because it's he's making a caricature of 313 00:25:32,799 --> 00:25:38,160 of the issue and you know, kind of employing an 314 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:43,440 opportunity target and and trying to cast us, you know, 315 00:25:43,759 --> 00:25:50,759 like like reformed people as uh like with this like 316 00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:57,839 broad stroke, as if we're some kind of a junior 317 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:03,039 version of the the traditional Norman aristocracy or something and that, 318 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,759 and that's not remotely accurate. That's why I emphasize that 319 00:26:13,039 --> 00:26:15,279 there's a guy, he's a really good story and his 320 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:25,720 name is Jonathan Jonathan Jonathan Charles Douglas Clark, and he 321 00:26:25,759 --> 00:26:29,240 wrote a lot about I think he's still alive. He's not. 322 00:26:29,279 --> 00:26:31,319 He's not. I mean, he's getting pretty old. I think 323 00:26:31,319 --> 00:26:33,839 he's in his seventies now. But he was neither like 324 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,640 a Whig historian nor like one of these Marxists. So 325 00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:40,920 he rejected both the kind of the kind of tory 326 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:42,480 what we view it was kind of like the neo 327 00:26:42,559 --> 00:26:48,680 condish like progressive view of history and institutions as being 328 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,359 this kind of mallible institutions, you know, in the in 329 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,480 the Anglophone world, being this kinds of malleable things that 330 00:26:56,319 --> 00:26:58,119 you know, through this kind of process of trial and 331 00:26:58,319 --> 00:27:04,640 error and ongoing enlightenment quite literally, you know, social conditions 332 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,319 become more equitable in like the open society because of reality. 333 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,319 He rejects that nonsense outright, But nor is he like 334 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:17,279 one of these. He speaks a lot like hobbs Bough. 335 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,119 I mean he he I got into an argument, not 336 00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:23,440 not not a hostile or punitive bloe, but I got 337 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,680 into an argument with somebody the other day who credited 338 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,480 Clark with with coining the the long century, that that 339 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:36,799 terminology or that signifier, and he did. He did speak 340 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,279 of the eighteenth century as the quote long eighteenth century 341 00:27:40,319 --> 00:27:43,279 in similar terms at a hobs Bomb described the nineteenth century. 342 00:27:43,759 --> 00:27:47,359 And undoubtedly they were familiar with each other's work products. 343 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:55,039 But you know, Clark wasn't really the Gaelien in the 344 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:59,960 terms that a hobbs Bomb was, but he obviously had 345 00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:07,000 as like some of those conceptual prejudices. I don't say 346 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,759 prejudices and punitive terms. I mean, that's just very much 347 00:28:10,759 --> 00:28:13,480 the way he kind of his view of historical time 348 00:28:13,599 --> 00:28:20,240 is oriented, particularly as regards you know, minds as the 349 00:28:20,319 --> 00:28:24,480 kind of prime move on in thistorical process. But the 350 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:30,960 point was that am looking aristocratic in Geminy that and 351 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:37,279 the challenge is emergent to its to gemony. That's really 352 00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:40,759 the way to understand everything of a power political nature 353 00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:45,279 that happened within and without the United Kingdom, like really 354 00:28:45,319 --> 00:28:48,240 from the from the time of the War three Kingdoms, 355 00:28:48,799 --> 00:28:52,480 you know, up until like World War One, Okay, and 356 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:59,720 I believe he's correct, and an adequately deep reading of 357 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:05,559 a hot with somebody like Carl Schmidt was very very 358 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:12,119 very adroit we you know, conveyed in in his writing, 359 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,119 not just in the concept of the political but in 360 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,960 the stuff he wrote directly on Hobbs, he's very much 361 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,079 making the same point, although obviously like his topical his 362 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:27,599 topical emphasies, you know, are are generally more focused on 363 00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:34,079 on discrete features, you know, relating the kind of conceptual 364 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,200 jurisprudness and things and and kind of theoretical foundations that 365 00:29:39,359 --> 00:29:42,559 you know, are intrinsic to the kind of British cultural 366 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,759 mind you know, and uh and such that there is 367 00:29:45,799 --> 00:29:50,079 a British cultural mind. It's it's it's it's Anglican and 368 00:29:50,119 --> 00:29:53,279 aristocratic and you know, so it's a real it's a 369 00:29:53,279 --> 00:29:59,880 real phenomenon. Okay, And again too, like that's why the 370 00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:03,519 emergence of a modern police element in the UK it 371 00:30:03,599 --> 00:30:11,720 was different than in in Germany, whereby by and large, uh, 372 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:18,279 you know, the poets I have always been sort of 373 00:30:18,319 --> 00:30:21,680 like an internal security element that was very much part 374 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,839 of the military. Okay, that that doesn't just owe to 375 00:30:25,839 --> 00:30:29,000 the fact that, you know, the modern German state is 376 00:30:29,039 --> 00:30:36,440 the house that Bismarck built, and that kind of conceptual perspective, 377 00:30:36,759 --> 00:30:39,599 especially visa the police thing is very Prussian. I mean, 378 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:44,359 that's part of it. But I posit that that only 379 00:30:44,359 --> 00:30:47,039 became that that was that only became a feature of 380 00:30:47,079 --> 00:30:50,559 the Prussian cultural mind on grounds that basic imagineity that 381 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:56,880 was accomplished. Now granted, and yes, Germany's about one third 382 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:05,559 Roman Catholic, but uh, Bismarck's culture comp was tremendously effective 383 00:31:06,519 --> 00:31:14,319 and basically rendering the German state and the civil service 384 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:23,640 that constituted that state at level of executive enforcement, the 385 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:28,519 same thing of decision making had become very Protestant by design. 386 00:31:28,839 --> 00:31:33,680 And also sectarian challenges aside, and I don't minimize those. 387 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,920 I mean Germany was literally ground zero of the Thirty 388 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,279 Years War. This was not like a minor thing, but 389 00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:47,599 there it was that despite the regional attachments to Germans, 390 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,960 and despite you know the kind of several populations who 391 00:31:52,079 --> 00:32:00,000 are possessed of discrete cultural forms. You know, like I said, 392 00:32:00,039 --> 00:32:03,759 Swabian is not a Prussian, is not a Bavarian, but 393 00:32:03,839 --> 00:32:07,599 there is like a German identity, like a Deutsche like 394 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,480 racial identity, if you will. There is not a British race. Okay, 395 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:18,519 there's constituent elements of Great Britain, but I nobody would 396 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,559 argue to the contrary. I don't believe, okay. And that's 397 00:32:23,839 --> 00:32:27,599 fundamentally important. And that's one of the reasons why again 398 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,079 it's it's not just it's not just some sort of 399 00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:39,400 like anglophone conceptual bias abstracted from historical experience in the 400 00:32:39,519 --> 00:32:45,359 UK and America. One of the common strains that is facilitated, 401 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,119 it's kind of enduring, like a mirroring between the two 402 00:32:49,119 --> 00:32:52,200 political cultures, like always do both us and them being 403 00:32:52,799 --> 00:32:59,039 like intractive, we divided societies and I will I will 404 00:32:59,119 --> 00:33:03,880 die on that hill. Okay. Now bring it back to 405 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,759 Clerk's kind of point and how it relates to our 406 00:33:08,759 --> 00:33:17,720 discussion topically after about eighteen thirty or so, despite the 407 00:33:17,759 --> 00:33:24,039 fact that, yeah, the vast majority of not just aristocrats 408 00:33:24,599 --> 00:33:28,680 but like upperly mobile middle class types in England but 409 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,640 also in the UK and in Ulster. Oh again, in Ulster, 410 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,920 it's a little more complicated. People basically believed in like 411 00:33:37,119 --> 00:33:42,920 not just the divine right of the British crown. But 412 00:33:43,839 --> 00:33:47,039 you know, they believe their hereditary nobility was basically doing 413 00:33:47,119 --> 00:33:51,079 his job historical terms, you know, they believe the kind 414 00:33:51,119 --> 00:33:55,799 of parameters of traditional authority from Tennessax, the six on word, 415 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,319 with the Anglican Church being a kind of theological and 416 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,000 aesthetical and cultural lynchpin of these things. They viewed that 417 00:34:03,039 --> 00:34:11,280 it's basically a good thing. Like Nevertheless, there were political 418 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,840 variables that were very real that were undermining it, you know, 419 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,159 and a lot of these, a lot of these sociological 420 00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:23,199 and sociopolitical factors were the same things that ultimately were 421 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:29,639 you know, culminated in like the eighteen forty eight revolutions, 422 00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:36,360 you know, which in turn also you know, kind of 423 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:41,559 kicked off the decades on the process whereby revolutionary communism 424 00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:49,280 kind of became the default perspective of the working classes, 425 00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:55,000 you know, locally moderated as it may have been, by 426 00:34:58,679 --> 00:35:05,079 traditional cultural praguice is or a vestigil attachment to the 427 00:35:05,159 --> 00:35:08,960 national or local culture or just out now, you know, 428 00:35:09,079 --> 00:35:14,400 like religious belief. You know that the fact remains that 429 00:35:15,599 --> 00:35:21,719 in every punctuated way, there was cracks emerging within this structure. 430 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:27,639 That really for the preceding you know, seven, eight, seven 431 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,400 or eighth centuries said had been essentially insurmountable and such 432 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,920 as threats to it were emergent, they were emerging from without, 433 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:49,880 and the standard bears of these threats were characterized first 434 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:56,480 and foremost by their absolute alienage. Okay, so this changed everything. 435 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:05,480 But you know, and Peel the degree to which he 436 00:36:05,559 --> 00:36:09,760 quite literally drafted like a manifesto and like various policy 437 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:14,920 papers on what the mandate should be of an urban 438 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,320 police department and what its relationships should be to the 439 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:24,360 judiciary and the executive and the Crown, but most importantly 440 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:31,639 to the community that it served. He drafted some of 441 00:36:31,639 --> 00:36:41,920 his allies in the government to produce this document known 442 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:50,599 as the Royal Commission on Constabulary Forces. And the report 443 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,239 didn't just it wasn't just emergent as some kind of 444 00:36:54,280 --> 00:37:02,360 last minute policy declaration to appease you know, the official 445 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:09,280 opposition or something like. There had been a serious committee 446 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:14,320 corral to evaluate exactly how this kind of nascent police 447 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,559 force I would work with the poor laws as they 448 00:37:17,599 --> 00:37:22,199 were called, you know, to what degree the police were 449 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:28,719 you know, to kind of like enforce these superficially paternalistic 450 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:40,559 but basically punitive, you know, uh, legislative mandates which conferred 451 00:37:40,599 --> 00:37:45,039 upon the local executive the ability to quite literally like 452 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,440 place people under arrest for fratal purposes and put them 453 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:53,199 in poor houses. You know. Peal was hyper aware of 454 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:58,239 this potentiality, and he basically said, like, we can't, we 455 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,039 can't become the kind of like uniform warmed enemy like 456 00:38:01,079 --> 00:38:04,920 of of the wretched and the poor, you know, or 457 00:38:05,079 --> 00:38:08,400 of the or or of the work or or of 458 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,519 the working classes. You know, we can't just become to 459 00:38:11,559 --> 00:38:16,639 be viewed as this kind of like permanent uh cadre 460 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,880 stripe breakers or something. So what he did was in 461 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:30,280 addition to that, in addition to this committee that you know 462 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,159 then as as I just mentioned from then of their 463 00:38:34,199 --> 00:38:37,760 findings and the form of his broad based study to 464 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:43,159 the commons, he also drafted what came to be known 465 00:38:43,199 --> 00:38:48,800 as the Pelion Principles. Okay, it sounds like the rules 466 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,920 one might have for like eating an orange or something, 467 00:38:51,960 --> 00:39:01,360 but it's not. The nine pillion principles were want to 468 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,880 prevent crime and disorder as and this is key as 469 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:10,320 an alternative to repression by military force and as an 470 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:16,039 alternative to recourse to increasingly severe punishment. So basically, you know, 471 00:39:17,679 --> 00:39:20,800 anything short of you know, some kind of seventeen eighty 472 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,880 nine situation, you don't just send in the red coats, 473 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,239 you know, to buttstroke and bayonet people. Nor do you 474 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,320 start you know, drawing and quartering people in the public 475 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,760 square like you know in the days of uh, you know, 476 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:42,800 medieval rebellions or whatever. You know, the people need to 477 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:47,519 view the police forces as working you know, like with them, 478 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:53,119 you know, towards accomplishing an equitable peace. You know. The 479 00:39:53,199 --> 00:39:59,920 second Pelian principle was that the power of the police 480 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:05,400 to fulfill their functions and duties is absolutely dependent on 481 00:40:05,559 --> 00:40:11,199 public approval of their existence, their actions and behavior in 482 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,199 the course of affecting custodial arrests. But also I can 483 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:21,519 approval of their mandate. You know, there's gotta be uh 484 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,840 that there's got there there There's gotta be some sort 485 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:30,480 of you know, direct uh connection between you know, these 486 00:40:30,519 --> 00:40:34,039 constituencies and how they're represented and the commons and who 487 00:40:34,119 --> 00:40:38,360 represents them, you know, and uh an ability of those 488 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,880 representatives like directly impact you know what what what you know, 489 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:48,239 what what priorities are as well as you know, as 490 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,760 well as the kind of brass tacks of of how 491 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,039 policing is conducted. You know, there's gotta be some kind 492 00:40:55,079 --> 00:41:03,480 of formal accountability, you know, to recognize always the extent 493 00:41:03,519 --> 00:41:10,960 to which cooperation of the public must be secured, and 494 00:41:11,039 --> 00:41:14,960 how this diminishes and proportion in terms the necessity of 495 00:41:15,039 --> 00:41:19,760 the use of physical force. And this is why traditionally, 496 00:41:20,079 --> 00:41:24,119 like British police don't pay a heat. Okay, it's not 497 00:41:24,199 --> 00:41:27,199 because the British are naive. It's not because they got 498 00:41:27,199 --> 00:41:31,639 a culture that wasn't steeped in violence. Nor is it 499 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,159 like in old movies where you know there's some that 500 00:41:35,159 --> 00:41:36,920 the British kind of don't know what the hell to 501 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,400 do if somebody shows up with a gun. Like look, Actually, 502 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,320 until recently firearms are pretty ubiquitous in the UK, and 503 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,199 until the later eighties you could procure a weapon as 504 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,960 a private person without a whole lot of hassle. The 505 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,639 British sending the army if they need to kill somebody, okay, 506 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,719 or if they need to like raid the hood and 507 00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,960 do like a Bullson parade thing and like break heads. 508 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,599 The whole point of like the pelion on the police 509 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:11,679 is that they don't do that. You know, you don't 510 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,280 you know, you don't send you don't send a diplomatic 511 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:21,440 element and to negotiate with a gun on his hip. Okay, 512 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,639 that that's the ethos and this is key and that's 513 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:31,079 kind of like where America parted ways with the Pelion concept. 514 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,559 And what we'll get into like why that is probably 515 00:42:33,559 --> 00:42:40,079 not till part two though, but number five of the 516 00:42:40,199 --> 00:42:45,519 Pellion principles to seek and preserve public favor and partial 517 00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:50,440 service to law, independence of policy, and without regard to 518 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:54,119 the justice or injustice of the substance of those laws, 519 00:42:54,400 --> 00:43:01,119 but without pandering the public opinion. And uh, you know 520 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:08,639 in in the UK and historically you know how like 521 00:43:08,679 --> 00:43:12,320 in Robinhood, like the big villain is the Sheriff of Nottingham. 522 00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:16,320 Like a sheriff didn't used to be like a local policeman, 523 00:43:17,199 --> 00:43:20,599 but he did basically have like the executive power of 524 00:43:20,639 --> 00:43:25,880 the county with you know that that like concentrated in 525 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,559 his office. And there's a big concern that these rules 526 00:43:30,599 --> 00:43:34,440 can't become politicized. That you're talking about, you know, the 527 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:39,079 ability to affect the studio, arrest and hail people into court, 528 00:43:39,199 --> 00:43:41,960 you know, by way of like a permanent constabulary, like 529 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:43,760 there had to be some kind of accountability, but it 530 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:49,800 couldn't become just like another political office, you know, and 531 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:55,800 that's uh I still plated in the early days, the 532 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,239 UK did a pretty good job of this, even if 533 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,760 it's you know, something that's not that they can't really 534 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,039 be sustained, you know, and in the absence as we 535 00:44:05,119 --> 00:44:09,000 saw with mister Trump, regardless of anybody feels about Trump, 536 00:44:09,079 --> 00:44:11,440 the man, you know, you've got You've got a perfect 537 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,519 example in the SBI where it's like you have a 538 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:18,519 law enforcement agency with tremendous power whose mandate disappeared decades ago. 539 00:44:18,599 --> 00:44:21,079 It's like, what what do they become? Like they've basically 540 00:44:21,119 --> 00:44:25,519 become this they become this kind of like hatchet for 541 00:44:25,639 --> 00:44:31,239 hire for entrenched political interests, and that's that's highly corrupting, 542 00:44:32,039 --> 00:44:37,480 you know, aside from the fact that it's it's unconstable 543 00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:41,880 that you know, the taxpayer is expected to you know, 544 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:47,159 continue to fund this apparatus, it's that you know, there 545 00:44:47,199 --> 00:44:51,519 really is like a there there really is a deleterious 546 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:58,320 influence of a police organization that has become like especially 547 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,079 owing to you know, the the vaporation of it's mandate 548 00:45:01,119 --> 00:45:08,199 has become really nothing more than a a a cipher 549 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:16,119 for you know, for political right, for political capture. The 550 00:45:16,199 --> 00:45:19,199 six plion principle is to use physical force only when 551 00:45:19,199 --> 00:45:21,639 the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to 552 00:45:21,639 --> 00:45:27,119 be insufficient. And again too, I know it's a lot 553 00:45:27,159 --> 00:45:29,119 of people and and like a fair amount of of 554 00:45:29,119 --> 00:45:34,480 flat foots like follow my content. I just we'll just fine. 555 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,039 I was kind of surprised, excuse me to discover that. 556 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:43,280 But uh, I hear police a lot, you know, talk 557 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,519 about how like, well, you know, the British policing is 558 00:45:47,519 --> 00:45:51,360 broke as fuck. They you know, they they're too averse 559 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,239 to force. And maybe they are. I'm not I'm not 560 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,840 like weighing in on that in absolute terms, but it's 561 00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:01,920 something that precludes the kind of current totally dysfunctional kind 562 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:07,960 of culture of police thing like post Floyd, post the 563 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,159 political theater, you know, post political theater premised one on 564 00:46:12,199 --> 00:46:16,159 the Floyd incident. It it just goes back to, you know, 565 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:24,239 literally an inception. And that's one of the reasons why 566 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,559 Operation Banner played out the way that it did, you know, 567 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:33,159 and we'll get into some of that. I don't I 568 00:46:33,159 --> 00:46:34,639 don't want to turn this into the discussion about the 569 00:46:34,679 --> 00:46:38,480 troubles because it's outside the scope. But there are aspects 570 00:46:38,519 --> 00:46:40,840 that are relevant to the discussion. But you know, my 571 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:46,639 my point is people who view you know, particl I mean, 572 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,800 there's a goulings going on here, and I don't want 573 00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,719 to I don't want to get into the topic here 574 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,320 now because I'm a versus the topic, although it's quite unpleasant, 575 00:46:54,360 --> 00:47:00,159 but because it's outside the scope discussion of the the 576 00:47:00,199 --> 00:47:03,840 grooming gangs and and and sexual assault of vulnerable people, 577 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:08,639 particularly young girls and kids by by these hostile like 578 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:13,159 alien elements. The reason why that's happening, oh, is to 579 00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:19,880 negatively political factors of you know, the post Nuremberg era. 580 00:47:21,559 --> 00:47:24,239 That that that doesn't owe to like the bridge police 581 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,880 being in you know, unreasonably averse to force or something. 582 00:47:28,559 --> 00:47:34,199 But instances where there is on display a comparative reluctance 583 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:39,559 you know, to apply deadly force or to go in 584 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,440 heavy as people think of it in terms of police work, 585 00:47:46,599 --> 00:47:51,400 you know, and in applying less lethal measures. That that 586 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:56,920 that's a different thing, and and it precedes you know, 587 00:47:57,039 --> 00:48:04,400 the current era, and it's it's ideological shibles and things. 588 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:11,280 The last uh, the last few are kind of brass 589 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,559 tech stuff, the last few of the Peler principles of accountability. 590 00:48:16,159 --> 00:48:19,320 But the key one is to uh is quote, to 591 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,280 maintain in all times of relationship with the public because 592 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,719 reality to the historical tradition that the police are the 593 00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:30,280 public and the public are the police. Community policing that 594 00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:36,519 phraseology as well as the ethos that underlies it as 595 00:48:36,559 --> 00:48:42,159 a direct import from the United Kingdom, and it's essential. 596 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,920 Like regardless of kind of how you fall on the 597 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,679 matter of what pains good policing or what like, that's 598 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,880 not important. I mean it's important, but I mean for 599 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:59,880 purposes of this particular aspect of the discussion, there does 600 00:49:00,039 --> 00:49:02,719 need to be like a communitarian aspect to the police. 601 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,840 Otherwise it's not workable. And honestly, that is that is 602 00:49:07,039 --> 00:49:12,840 the future as the process that we talked about at 603 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:19,360 the top of the hour, you know, kinda emerges in 604 00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:25,039 earnest and policing becomes truly a localized function once again. 605 00:49:25,679 --> 00:49:29,320 That that that's that's essential to local sovereignty and and 606 00:49:29,519 --> 00:49:33,360 essentially the maintenance of i've anything approaching law and order. 607 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,760 And I made the point again and again you're gonna 608 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,119 see moving forward, there's not gonna be I mean, I 609 00:49:40,119 --> 00:49:42,840 realized I'm dating myself with this reference. But there's I 610 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,119 did not foresee like a Thomas Chitthham Civil War two 611 00:49:46,199 --> 00:49:49,239 scenario that people would bang in nearly nineties. And I 612 00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:53,000 Thinkam is a great guy, and for context, he was 613 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:54,960 writing about this stuff in the wake of things like 614 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,360 the La riots, where like some kind of open ross 615 00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:03,000 and Kreeg is really like in the running, which is terrible. 616 00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,519 I do not see that happening at scale. What is happening, 617 00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:15,519 I mean, I mean it's already underway, is the kind 618 00:50:15,519 --> 00:50:21,079 of secession of discrete communities, some which are deliberate communities, 619 00:50:21,079 --> 00:50:25,480 some of which have just kind of ossified around common 620 00:50:25,519 --> 00:50:31,199 cultural imperatives and identitarian signifiers, just like owing to accident 621 00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:41,400 of you know, historical developments and sociological realities. But as 622 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,920 communities kind of become more and more self contained, you know, 623 00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,000 like we've talked about before, there's there's gonna be even 624 00:50:48,119 --> 00:50:53,920 greater and more layered complex interdependence of an economic and 625 00:50:54,000 --> 00:51:00,000 financial nature. But politically people are seceding. You know, You're 626 00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:02,400 gonna see communities that are like nine nine point nine 627 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,679 percent black that that are like nine nine point nive 628 00:51:04,679 --> 00:51:07,679 percent white, you know that that are like the same 629 00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,440 as for Raza or for like Eveian people or other. 630 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:15,360 And similarly, there's gonna be communities that owing either ideological 631 00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:22,440 commitment or inability or unwillingness to establish you know, a 632 00:51:22,519 --> 00:51:25,760 deliberate living pattern at relative scale. You know, there are 633 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,840 gonna be like mixed race communities that you know maybe 634 00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,719 or maybe even you know, community such that are situated 635 00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:38,400 in the afore mentioned according to the afrementioned criteria, like 636 00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:44,639 going to something like vestigial attachment to American civic myths. 637 00:51:45,119 --> 00:51:48,119 But regardless, like any policing element is gonna be a 638 00:51:48,119 --> 00:51:51,039 reflection in that community. You're not gonna have like white 639 00:51:51,119 --> 00:51:54,519 or Spanish guys going to police who live fifty miles away, 640 00:51:54,639 --> 00:51:57,320 like commuting into some black code to polices and like 641 00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,599 vice versa. Like that's done. That's dead. You know, it's 642 00:52:00,639 --> 00:52:10,360 not the liabilities attendant to police work are just going 643 00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:14,760 to kind of force those sorts of developments. But also 644 00:52:15,559 --> 00:52:17,480 people aren't going to be willing to do the job 645 00:52:17,519 --> 00:52:28,719 anymore from a position of communitarian alienage. Okay, But also again, 646 00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:34,320 you know, like what was the what was the purpose 647 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:41,360 appeals model for policing, which in turn also had strong 648 00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:47,280 relevance here, you know, again owing to the basic social 649 00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:52,760 divisions which characterize both societies. What kind of derailed that 650 00:52:53,079 --> 00:52:57,840 really was? Uh really, it was kind of like the 651 00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:02,000 collapse of the city these as low guy as like 652 00:53:02,079 --> 00:53:05,639 worker Barris. For the national economy, it was the Cold War. 653 00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:14,920 It was uh, you know, the earliest uh birthpaygs of 654 00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,119 globalism when they really when they literally were like two 655 00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:23,119 systems competing for global hegemony. That's really what underlay the 656 00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:26,039 war on drugs. Like I watched the film drug Store 657 00:53:26,039 --> 00:53:28,360 Cowboy the other day, which is actually a really good film. 658 00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,840 I really liked that movie. It's got Kelly Lynch, it's 659 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:36,079 got James Raemar, it's got Matt Dylan, it's got Weymouth 660 00:53:36,199 --> 00:53:39,719 Burrows in this weird cameo. But it's kind of a 661 00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,079 it's very much kind of a black comedy, but it's 662 00:53:43,079 --> 00:53:47,159 also a serious treatment of of of of like narcotic addiction. 663 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,480 And it's also kind of like a you know, like 664 00:53:50,519 --> 00:53:56,519 a crime movie. But Burrows plays this uh heroin and 665 00:53:56,559 --> 00:54:01,440 morphine addicted priest. It's kind of like the grand old 666 00:54:01,519 --> 00:54:07,599 man of this community of addicts that's perpetually ripping and running. 667 00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:12,000 And he talks about the settings around nineteen seventy three, 668 00:54:12,119 --> 00:54:15,400 and he's talking about, you know, I foresee a global 669 00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:19,679 police state apparatus premised on the moral panic over use 670 00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:24,079 in narcotics. And yeah, there was an aspect to that, 671 00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,599 but the war on drugs is peak like Cold War, 672 00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:37,400 I think, okay, and everything else aside. It totally and 673 00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:42,320 completely changed policing. It changed the way, it changed what's 674 00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:47,159 considered evidence. It changed the way we conceptualize a criminal offense. 675 00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:53,840 It changed the way the police view the community that 676 00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:59,719 they are charged with regulating, and vice versa. It changed 677 00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:07,639 people's attitude towards violence and when the police have a 678 00:55:07,679 --> 00:55:12,639 defensible mandate to apply it, I mean, it made the 679 00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,559 role something other than what it had been there too, 680 00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:27,960 for it was that much of a a categorical paradigm shift. Okay, 681 00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,039 and the we're on drugs is coming to an end two, 682 00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:36,239 which is really really interesting and very important, you know, 683 00:55:37,559 --> 00:55:47,199 especially considering that agree to which you know, many aspects 684 00:55:47,199 --> 00:55:51,119 of the public health crisis are being driven by addiction 685 00:55:51,320 --> 00:56:02,159 to two, it's the obvious. But where uh, we're coming 686 00:56:02,199 --> 00:56:04,400 up on the hours. We want to stop now. I'm 687 00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,880 sorry to be a party pooper, but if I change 688 00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:10,199 gears now, like I'll have to stop like in the 689 00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:17,320 middle of a what I think is an important point, 690 00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:18,239 and I don't want to do that. 691 00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,679 Speaker 1: Then I will hold my questions until the next time 692 00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,159 that we prefer. 693 00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:27,679 Speaker 2: You can we can do them now if you want, 694 00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:28,480 or we can wait. 695 00:56:29,039 --> 00:56:32,079 Speaker 1: Well, let me let me just throw one in there. Yeah, man, 696 00:56:32,119 --> 00:56:36,320 it seems it seems like in the United States policing 697 00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,800 was taken over by the Irish. How did that happen? 698 00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,199 Speaker 2: A few different way at least in Chicago. Bostin's a 699 00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:50,599 bit different in Chicago. And to get into this, and 700 00:56:50,679 --> 00:56:53,559 Upton Sinclair's The Jungle, which is a great book, like 701 00:56:53,639 --> 00:56:58,639 even if even if you don't accept Sinclair's you know, 702 00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:05,559 view on political economy and and and historical processes and things. 703 00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:12,599 But when the Jungle opens up, there's still like a 704 00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:19,039 vestigel like German American kind of civic elite in Chicago, 705 00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:29,440 you know, but they're slipping. Basically, the first unions were 706 00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:34,039 Irish immigrants, and the first mob here was Irish, you know, 707 00:57:34,079 --> 00:57:36,920 the Copone gang like went to war basically with like 708 00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:40,239 with with the Irish, you know that. I mean, yeah, 709 00:57:40,239 --> 00:57:41,960 it was the north side of the South, so I 710 00:57:42,039 --> 00:57:47,159 truly are different, and there wasn't some like rigid homogeneity 711 00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,440 between the gangs. But it was basically like you know, 712 00:57:50,559 --> 00:57:53,840 Capone's Italians like going to war with the Irish. Okay, 713 00:57:55,679 --> 00:57:59,599 So the Irish were running the street and the Irish 714 00:57:59,719 --> 00:58:02,679 and and you know, the Irish are running the the 715 00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:10,280 labored unions. So by consequence, you know, you had to 716 00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,360 give the you had to give the Irish the police 717 00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,679 department if you wanted to be able to regulate both 718 00:58:15,719 --> 00:58:19,079 of those things, you know. And then from there, like 719 00:58:19,159 --> 00:58:24,079 the Irish here they were able to capture they were 720 00:58:24,119 --> 00:58:31,280 able to capture the the synagapparatus for you know, like 721 00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:37,159 seventy years. The Irish are I'm not I'm not like 722 00:58:37,199 --> 00:58:39,719 transhing the Irish. I mean, depending on how you define 723 00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:44,119 things like I am Irish, like I don't really I 724 00:58:44,119 --> 00:58:45,880 think if you're not running cap like, you're not really 725 00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,719 a petty. But my point is, I mean, I that's 726 00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:50,199 one of the reason I make fun of them so much, 727 00:58:50,239 --> 00:58:55,480 just because it's kind of like an in house rivalry. 728 00:58:55,599 --> 00:58:58,039 But uh, I'm not banishing the Irish when I say this, 729 00:58:58,199 --> 00:59:03,559 but they're they're a conspiratorial people, very tribal, very uh, 730 00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:14,199 very in group focused, very prone to intrigues. Okay, and 731 00:59:14,519 --> 00:59:22,400 the best way under the national economic schema. You know 732 00:59:22,519 --> 00:59:29,360 that existed in earnest from the eighteen seventies until you know, 733 00:59:30,159 --> 00:59:36,599 really until the Kennedy era. You know, they that that 734 00:59:36,719 --> 00:59:41,920 was how you captured cloud, you know in the cities. 735 00:59:42,559 --> 00:59:48,760 So that that's how I knew, uh the guy, I 736 00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,039 don't want to name drop him because I I think 737 00:59:51,039 --> 00:59:53,079 he's retired now. I mean, I think about this the 738 00:59:53,079 --> 00:59:56,000 other days, like I'm getting so old, but I went 739 00:59:56,039 --> 00:59:59,159 to law school and I'm getting buddies with the like 740 00:59:59,199 --> 01:00:02,119 where I went to Los Cool. This guy named Corboy. 741 01:00:02,119 --> 01:00:05,280 He's this big shot like king of Torchs type lawyer. 742 01:00:06,039 --> 01:00:10,039 He founded this scholarship at John Marshall Chicago. Or like 743 01:00:10,079 --> 01:00:13,559 any Chicago policeman or woman can like get a full 744 01:00:13,639 --> 01:00:17,119 ride if they can like get into John Marshall. So 745 01:00:17,199 --> 01:00:19,199 I got to know like some of these flat foots, 746 01:00:19,199 --> 01:00:21,880 including the guy who went on to become a haunch 747 01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:24,320 with a re turnover police. And I got to know 748 01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,599 him pretty well because like he drive me home I 749 01:00:26,599 --> 01:00:31,679 mean we we had class on the weekends. We were 750 01:00:31,679 --> 01:00:35,559 both going to law school. At night. He was working, 751 01:00:35,559 --> 01:00:37,079 as he was, he was working as a cop. Then 752 01:00:37,119 --> 01:00:40,000 he worked the West Side, you know, I was I 753 01:00:40,039 --> 01:00:42,880 was working a couple of different jobs, including this gym and Edgewater. 754 01:00:43,039 --> 01:00:45,199 But so you go to class at night and then 755 01:00:45,239 --> 01:00:48,280 on Saturday morning we had like lawyering skills. It was 756 01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:54,079 basically legal writing. And uh, he'd meet me at the 757 01:00:54,119 --> 01:01:00,800 Skokie Swifts l station and then we'd drive to the 758 01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:04,480 Loop and then every class he'd drive me back it's 759 01:01:04,559 --> 01:01:08,519 the Skogie Swift and then I'd go home to Evanston. So, 760 01:01:08,559 --> 01:01:10,960 like I got to know him, went pretty well. And 761 01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,239 he was the third generation cop. Like his brother was 762 01:01:14,239 --> 01:01:17,800 a cop, his dad was a cop, his grandfather been 763 01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:21,519 a cop, you know, and it's, uh, it was interesting. 764 01:01:22,719 --> 01:01:28,480 And and he married a lady who was very nice. 765 01:01:30,119 --> 01:01:32,239 And he'd met her at is U where a lot 766 01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:34,000 of cops used to go to college. I don't know 767 01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:37,960 what today, but there their police science program was kind 768 01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:40,920 of a feeder system for Chicago bed. But he married 769 01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,679 a lady and like her dad was a cop, you know. 770 01:01:46,039 --> 01:01:52,199 But that point, being like a I got some insight. Uh, 771 01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,239 because I'm like a normal shore guy, and so there 772 01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:58,280 was plenty of Irish around like where I grew up. 773 01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:02,519 But you know, they were they weren't the kinds of 774 01:02:02,519 --> 01:02:06,800 guys who become policemen, you know, like uh, the other 775 01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,280 kinds of guys who were like lawyers and stuff and 776 01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:12,960 like accountants like their dads. I mean, you know, it's 777 01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:15,280 the prosperous serious that's not some kind of like flex 778 01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:17,880 and like my family because like my dad, like my 779 01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,360 dad's like a fucking genius, but he's like he's like 780 01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,000 this academic guy and basically like a game theory guy. 781 01:02:23,239 --> 01:02:26,000 We were kind of like we were like the poor people. 782 01:02:26,239 --> 01:02:29,440 I'm sure, and like you guys you did it is 783 01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:31,960 this first guy I know, like helping me. You know, 784 01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:33,639 he's like, but don't do it. Hees you won't make 785 01:02:33,679 --> 01:02:38,800 any money. It's like you want your opinion. But yeah, 786 01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:40,559 that was that was kind of a tangent man, sorry 787 01:02:40,639 --> 01:02:43,840 with it, and I forgive my I finally were being sick, man, 788 01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:46,559 but I still got some congestion. Forgive me. I realized 789 01:02:46,559 --> 01:02:48,440 I don't sound well, So forgive me for. 790 01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:52,320 Speaker 1: It, no problem, uh, and drop some plugs and uh 791 01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:52,880 I'll end. 792 01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:59,119 Speaker 2: This, You'll end it. All that struck me as funny 793 01:02:59,159 --> 01:03:02,960 as sorry, I'm trying to be a cob. You can 794 01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,320 always find me. The best place to find me is 795 01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:08,639 on substick. I'm on hiatus from the pod until the 796 01:03:08,679 --> 01:03:11,960 first week in February, but there's other good stuff that's 797 01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,440 popping up there and I promise season via the Pod 798 01:03:14,519 --> 01:03:18,800 is going to be lit and tremendous. It's real Thomas 799 01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:24,760 seven seven seven dot substack dot com. My website is 800 01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:28,880 kind of a one stop location for a bunch of 801 01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:34,159 my content. It's number seven h O M A S 802 01:03:34,159 --> 01:03:39,760 seven seven seven dot com. I'm on social media at 803 01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:45,039 Capital r e A L Underscore number seven h O 804 01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:49,360 M A S seven seven seven. I'm on Instagram, I 805 01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:53,079 on Telegram. But yeah, uh, there's big things on the 806 01:03:53,119 --> 01:03:57,639 horizon and I think I think the subs will very 807 01:03:57,719 --> 01:04:01,639 much appreciate and approve of these things. And I want 808 01:04:01,679 --> 01:04:04,199 to give ever since I'm want to thank everybody for 809 01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:08,360 supporting the brand. People have really we We've gotten like 810 01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:11,559 a glut of new subscribers lately. It's it's just great, 811 01:04:12,039 --> 01:04:15,079 you know, and your support makes this possible. I cannot 812 01:04:15,079 --> 01:04:18,920 thank you enough and in a week, I'm going to 813 01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,760 the inauguration and a bunch of the fellas and girls 814 01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,400 are gonna be out there. I'm gonna I'm gonna stream 815 01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:28,559 from out there, and I'm gonna try and capture some 816 01:04:29,239 --> 01:04:31,679 worthwhile footage and b roles. So there's had to look 817 01:04:31,719 --> 01:04:35,360 forward to also. But that's that's what I got, all right, man. 818 01:04:35,639 --> 01:05:00,320 Speaker 1: So the next time, thank you. M. S.