Speaker 1: All right, let's dive in. Today we're exploring the world
Speaker 1: of ethical hacking better known as penetration testing.
Speaker 2: Really fascinating stuff and you know, I'm.
Speaker 1: Really excited to be breaking down this whole career path,
Speaker 1: especially with this book, The pen Tester Blueprint you sent over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the ultimate guide for anyone dreaming of
Speaker 2: becoming a pen tester.
Speaker 1: Okay, so first things first, what exactly is a penetration tester?
Speaker 1: I mean, we hear ethical hacker, but what's the day
Speaker 1: to day look like.
Speaker 2: Well, imagine this. You're hired by a company to basically
Speaker 2: try and break into their systems.
Speaker 1: Whoa So just like a real attacker would.
Speaker 2: Exactly, but with one big difference. You have their permission
Speaker 2: and it's all above board.
Speaker 1: Legally, So no sneaking around in the dark, not at all.
Speaker 2: It's all about finding those vulnerabilities before the bad guys do.
Speaker 1: Right, so they can beef up their security exactly.
Speaker 2: And the book really stresses the importance of having everything
Speaker 2: in writing, a clear agreement outlining the scope, the targets,
Speaker 2: all the rules of engagement.
Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense. So you're like a digital detective
Speaker 1: uncovering weaknesses that.
Speaker 2: Can be patched up A great way to put it.
Speaker 1: Now. The book mentions methodologies like PT and OOS are
Speaker 1: those like the Detective's Handbook exactly.
Speaker 2: Think of them as structured approaches to pen testing, ensuring
Speaker 2: thoroughness and consistency.
Speaker 1: So there's a method to the madness, not just random hacking.
Speaker 2: Right. Take the O was P Testing Guide for example.
Speaker 2: It breaks down the testing process for web applications into
Speaker 2: super specific areas like authentication, authorization, data validation. It's a
Speaker 2: real roadmap.
Speaker 1: Wow. So it's not just like poking around hoping to
Speaker 1: find a hole. There's an actual science to it.
Speaker 2: There is, and there are different phases too, like what Well, first,
Speaker 2: there's information gathering, learning everything you can about the target,
Speaker 2: kind of like reconnaissance on a digital battlefield.
Speaker 1: Scoping out the terrain before you make your move. Makes sense.
Speaker 1: What comes after reconnaissance?
Speaker 2: Then comes vulnerability analysis, using various tools and techniques to
Speaker 2: uncover weaknesses and systems and applications.
Speaker 1: Okay, and then the exciting.
Speaker 2: Part, the exciting part, yes, exploitation. You actually try to
Speaker 2: break in, but ethically remember and always within that agreed upon.
Speaker 1: Scope right to see what an attacker could do, not
Speaker 1: to cause damage exactly.
Speaker 2: Then there's post exploitation figuring out just how much damage
Speaker 2: could be done, stealing data, disrupting operations.
Speaker 1: That kind of thing sounds intense.
Speaker 2: And finally reporting, Yeah, you provide the company with a
Speaker 2: detailed roadmap for fixing those vulnerabilities.
Speaker 1: So it's a whole process from start to finish, it is. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And speaking of different approaches, you know the book talks
Speaker 2: about black box, white box, and gray box testing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was curious about those. Can you break them
Speaker 1: down for us?
Speaker 2: Okay? Imagine being dropped into a totally unknown city. Your
Speaker 2: mission find a specific building, no map, no guide, just
Speaker 2: your skills and intuition. That's black box testing.
Speaker 1: Wow, that sounds tough. Okay, Then what's white box?
Speaker 2: Whitebox is the complete opposite. You're giving blueprints to the city,
Speaker 2: street names, building layouts, you know exactly where to go.
Speaker 1: Ah, so you have all the information you need exactly
Speaker 1: And gray box I'm guessing it's somewhere in between.
Speaker 2: You got it. Gray box is like having a partial map,
Speaker 2: maybe some street names, but not all the details.
Speaker 1: Interesting, So different levels of knowledge about the target makes sense.
Speaker 1: Now let's talk skills. What do you need to know
Speaker 1: to become a pentester. The book mentions operating systems, networking,
Speaker 1: cybersecurity fundamentals.
Speaker 2: Those are the building blocks, the foundation, like trying to
Speaker 2: break into a house without knowing how doors and windows work.
Speaker 1: So operating systems you have to know Windows, Linux, all
Speaker 1: those inner workings.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you need to understand how they function to even
Speaker 2: think about exploiting them.
Speaker 1: Makes sense.
Speaker 2: And then networking that's like understanding the roads and highways
Speaker 2: that connect those houses, how data flows, how networks are.
Speaker 1: Structured right to see where the weak points might be exactly.
Speaker 2: And then cybersecurity fundamentals those are like the overall rules of.
Speaker 1: The game, the ground rules.
Speaker 2: I get it right, understanding concepts like the CIA triad, confidentiality, integrity, availability.
Speaker 2: It's about protecting data from all angles.
Speaker 1: Protecting it from unauthorized access, making sure it's not corrupted,
Speaker 1: and making sure it's accessible to the right people.
Speaker 2: Got it exactly. It's a holistic approach.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's more than just hacking skills. You need
Speaker 1: a deep understanding of how everything works together.
Speaker 2: Right, And then they're social engineering. That's a fascinating area.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the book touched on that. Tell me more.
Speaker 2: It's all about the human element, exploiting human behavior to
Speaker 2: get access to information.
Speaker 1: So basically hacking the human operating system exactly.
Speaker 2: Things like phishing attacks where people are tricked into clicking
Speaker 2: malicious links or revealing sensitive information.
Speaker 1: Wow, so you're playing on people's trust and habits.
Speaker 2: In a way. Yes, it's about understanding how people think,
Speaker 2: how they react, and how to exploit those patterns.
Speaker 1: Okay, this is getting really interesting. It's like a blend
Speaker 1: of technical skills, psychology, even detective work.
Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it. And it's constantly evolving,
Speaker 2: just like technology itself.
Speaker 1: Right, always changing new challenges. Now, the book talks about
Speaker 1: building a pen testing lab. What exactly is that?
Speaker 2: It's like having your own personal hacking playground?
Speaker 1: Whoa seriously?
Speaker 2: Yeah, a safe space where you can experiment and practice
Speaker 2: hone your skills without any real world consequences.
Speaker 1: Okay, a hacking playground. I like the sound of that.
Speaker 1: But how do you even set one up?
Speaker 2: It can be simple or complex depending on your goals.
Speaker 2: The book outlines different setups using virtualization software like Oracle virtual.
Speaker 1: Box, virtual box. Okay, what does that do?
Speaker 2: It lets you create virtual machines, essentially simulated computers. On
Speaker 2: your existing computer.
Speaker 1: So I could have a virtual Windows machine, a virtual
Speaker 1: Linux machine.
Speaker 2: Exactly, all running safely on your own system, ready for
Speaker 2: you to practice on. You can even download pre built
Speaker 2: intentionally vulnerable virtual machines.
Speaker 1: Whoa intentionally vulnerable? Why would you do that?
Speaker 2: So you can practice exploiting those known vulnerabilities in a
Speaker 2: safe environment.
Speaker 1: Ah, like a training ground with preset targets exactly.
Speaker 2: You can find those on sites like bal hub.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you've got your virtual lab, your virtual targets.
Speaker 1: That's pretty high tech. What kind of tools do pen
Speaker 1: testers actually use?
Speaker 2: There's a whole arsenal out there. The book dives into
Speaker 2: a bunch of them. A good place to start is
Speaker 2: Kalie Linux.
Speaker 1: Kalie Linux, I've heard that name before. Sounds intense.
Speaker 2: It's a penetration testing focused operating system. It comes with
Speaker 2: a huge collection of tools already built in.
Speaker 1: Well, that's convenient. So what kind of tools are we
Speaker 1: talking about?
Speaker 2: Well, there's NMP for network scanning, wire Shark for analyzing
Speaker 2: network traffic, metasploit for developing and executing exploits.
Speaker 1: Okay, those names are starting to ring a bell.
Speaker 2: End map is like a radar for the digital world.
Speaker 2: It lets you map out a network, see what's out there.
Speaker 2: Wire Shark, on the other hand, is more like a microscope,
Speaker 2: letting you dissect network traffic and see how systems are communicating, so.
Speaker 1: You can see what's being said, so to speak, exactly.
Speaker 2: And then there's metasploit, which provides a structured approach to
Speaker 2: penetration testing.
Speaker 1: Okay, so each tool has its own specialty.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and as you progress, you might even start building
Speaker 2: your own custom tools and scripts.
Speaker 1: Wow, that sounds really advanced. But before we get there,
Speaker 1: let's talk about actually getting started in this field. It's
Speaker 1: not like you can just walk into a company and say, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm a hacker. Hire me.
Speaker 2: Well, the demand for skilled pen testers is definitely growing,
Speaker 2: but it's still a competitive.
Speaker 1: Field, right, So what do you need to do to
Speaker 1: stand out?
Speaker 2: The book really emphasizes certifications, practical experience, and networking.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's start with certifications. What are some key
Speaker 1: ones to consider?
Speaker 2: Well, there's the Certified Ethical Hacker CEH, COMPTIAPEN test plus,
Speaker 2: Compact Offensive Security Certified Professional or OSCP.
Speaker 1: Okay. Lots of acronyms are these like digital badges saying hey,
Speaker 1: I know my stuff.
Speaker 2: They're more than just badges. They show a real commitment
Speaker 2: to professional development and a recognition of your skills by
Speaker 2: the industry.
Speaker 1: So they hold some weight.
Speaker 2: They do. CP for example, is known for his hands
Speaker 2: on exam. You actually have to penetrate a simulated network
Speaker 2: to pass.
Speaker 1: Wow, a real test of your abilities. So certifications are important,
Speaker 1: but what about practical experience? How do you get that
Speaker 1: before applying for jobs?
Speaker 2: That's where Capture the Flag competitions come in or CTFs.
Speaker 1: Capture the Flag sounds fun they are.
Speaker 2: Think of them as digital treasure hunts for cybersecurity enthusiasts.
Speaker 2: You're presented with challenges and have to find hidden flags
Speaker 2: to solve them.
Speaker 1: Ah, I see, so like a real world simulation, but
Speaker 1: in a controlled environment exactly.
Speaker 2: You get to apply your skills, learn new techniques and
Speaker 2: they look great on a resume.
Speaker 1: Right shows you're proactive, always learning.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and they're fun. You can participate online from anywhere.
Speaker 1: Cool. So CTFs are a great way to build up experience.
Speaker 1: Now what about those bug bounty programs? The book mentions
Speaker 1: what are those all about?
Speaker 2: Bug bounty programs are another great way to gain experience
Speaker 2: and maybe even earn some money along the way.
Speaker 1: Wait, getting paid to hack sort of.
Speaker 2: Company invite security researchers to find and report vulnerabilities in
Speaker 2: their systems.
Speaker 1: So you're basically a paid consultant helping them find weak
Speaker 1: spots before the bad guys do.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and the rewards can be pretty significant. Some programs
Speaker 2: offer thousands of dollars for finding critical vulnerabilities.
Speaker 1: Wow, so you're getting experience and getting paid for it.
Speaker 2: It's a win win, and it's a great way to
Speaker 2: build your reputation in the security community. Finding a big
Speaker 2: vulnerability can get you noticed by top companies.
Speaker 1: Okay, CTFs for skills, bug bounties for real world testing,
Speaker 1: and maybe some cash. Sounds like a good path. But
Speaker 1: what about for total beginners? Where do you even start?
Speaker 2: The best advice is to start small. Don't try to
Speaker 2: tackle the most complex challenges right away, right work your
Speaker 2: way up exactly. There are plenty of beginner friendly CTF
Speaker 2: platforms and bug bounty programs out there. Just jump in
Speaker 2: and try things out.
Speaker 1: Don't be intimidated, not at all.
Speaker 2: Everyone starts somewhere. Just be curious, keep learning, and don't
Speaker 2: give up. That's what the he hacker mindset is all about.
Speaker 1: Okay, the hacker mindset. We touched on that earlier. What
Speaker 1: does it really mean to think like a hacker?
Speaker 2: It's about curiosity, creativity and always wanting to learn more,
Speaker 2: looking at systems and processes and thinking how could this
Speaker 2: be exploited?
Speaker 1: So it's not about being malicious, it's about understanding how
Speaker 1: someone could be malicious exactly.
Speaker 2: Ethical hackers use that mindset to find vulnerabilities so they
Speaker 2: can be fixed, not exploited. Think like the bad guys
Speaker 2: so you can.
Speaker 1: Stay ahead of them, right like those chess grant masters
Speaker 1: who can think dozens of moves ahead.
Speaker 2: That's a great analogy. And just like chess, it takes
Speaker 2: practice to develop that kind of thinking. You need to
Speaker 2: be always learning, experimenting, challenging yourself to think differently.
Speaker 1: So how do you actually develop that mindset? Any tips
Speaker 1: or tricks?
Speaker 2: One thing you can try is to look at everyday
Speaker 2: objects or processes and break them down. Ask yourself how
Speaker 2: they work, how they could be manipulated, where the weaknesses
Speaker 2: might be.
Speaker 1: So like, instead of just using my coffeemaker, I should
Speaker 1: be thinking of about how it could be hacked.
Speaker 2: Exactly. It's about looking at the world with a different perspective,
Speaker 2: always asking what if.
Speaker 1: That's a really interesting way to think about it. It's
Speaker 1: almost like a philosophy, a way of approaching problems in general,
Speaker 1: you could.
Speaker 2: Say that and is a valuable skill in lots of areas,
Speaker 2: not just cybersecurity.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we've got the skills, the experience, the mindset.
Speaker 1: What else is important for aspiring pen testers to keep inhind.
Speaker 2: Well, the world of cybersecurity is constantly changing. There are
Speaker 2: always new challenges and trends.
Speaker 1: Emerging, so you always have to be learning and adapting exactly.
Speaker 2: One of the biggest challenges right now is just the
Speaker 2: sheer complexity of systems and networks. Everything is connected and
Speaker 2: it's constantly growing, like.
Speaker 1: Trying to find a needle in a haystack that keeps
Speaker 1: getting bigger, right, And.
Speaker 2: There are so many different types of systems and technologies now,
Speaker 2: cloud computing, mobile devices, the Internet of Things. It's a
Speaker 2: lot to keep up with.
Speaker 1: So pen testers need to be really versatile and adaptable.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you can't just specialize in one area anymore. You
Speaker 2: need to be knowledgeable across a wide range of platforms
Speaker 2: and technologies.
Speaker 1: Like a doctor who needs to be able to treat
Speaker 1: all kinds of different conditions.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and you need to stay up to date on
Speaker 2: the latest research, just like a doctor would, always learning
Speaker 2: about new vulnerabilities and.
Speaker 1: Attack techniques, right, always evolving. So with all these challenges,
Speaker 1: are there still opportunities in this field?
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely lots of them. One area that's really booming
Speaker 2: right now is cloud security. More and more companies are
Speaker 2: moving their data and applications to the cloud, so they
Speaker 2: need people who understand how to secure those environments.
Speaker 1: Makes sense. So it's not just about physical servers and networks.
Speaker 2: Anymore, right, It's a whole new frontier with its own
Speaker 2: unique set of challenges and opportunities.
Speaker 1: So the field is growing and changing all the time.
Speaker 2: It is, and as long as there's technology, there will
Speaker 2: be a need for skilled pen testers.
Speaker 1: That's really reassuring to hear. It sounds like a challenging
Speaker 1: but really exciting field to be in.
Speaker 2: It is, and it's really rewarding knowing your help to
Speaker 2: make the digital world a safer place.
Speaker 1: Well, you've definitely given me a lot to think about.
Speaker 1: I'm sure our listeners are feeling inspired too. Any final
Speaker 1: thoughts or advice for those who want to explore this path.
Speaker 2: The most important thing is to stay curious, never stop learning, experimenting,
Speaker 2: pushing the boundaries of your knowledge.
Speaker 1: Embrace that hacker mindset exactly, and remember it's a journey,
Speaker 1: not a destination.
Speaker 2: There's always something new to learn, new challenges to tackle,
Speaker 2: and never forget the ethical side of things. Use your
Speaker 2: skills for good.
Speaker 1: So stay curious, stay ethical, and never stop exploring. Great advice.
Speaker 2: Well, we've covered a lot of ground today. The world
Speaker 2: of penetration testing is clearly complex and constantly evolving. It
Speaker 2: definitely is, but also incredibly fascinating. Thanks so much for
Speaker 2: taking this deep dive with us today.
Speaker 1: It's been my pleasure. Welcome back.
Speaker 2: All right, So, last time we got a taste of
Speaker 2: the skills and tools pen testers use.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just a taste. But today let's get into the
Speaker 1: real world inside of things exactly.
Speaker 2: And I know we have to talk about those Capture
Speaker 2: the Flag competitions.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the CTFs. Those are like digital obstacle courses
Speaker 1: for cybersecurity folks.
Speaker 2: Okay, obstacle courses. I like that. So how do they work?
Speaker 1: You basically face a bunch of challenges and you have
Speaker 1: to use your knowledge and skills to find hidden.
Speaker 2: Flags flags, Like what kind of flags?
Speaker 1: They could be anything a piece of text, a code,
Speaker 1: anything hidden within the system. Interesting. So it's like a
Speaker 1: Stavenger Hunt, but for hackers exactly.
Speaker 2: And you can do them online from anywhere.
Speaker 1: Cool, so anyone can participate.
Speaker 2: Yep. There are CTFs for all skill levels, beginners to pros.
Speaker 2: Some you do solo, others are team events.
Speaker 1: So you can really test yourself and see how you
Speaker 1: stack up.
Speaker 2: Right, And they're not just for fun. CTFs look amazing
Speaker 2: on a resume. It shows potential employers that you're serious
Speaker 2: about cybersecurity.
Speaker 1: Oh, that makes sense. It shows you're actually applying what.
Speaker 2: You know exactly. Plus you're learning new techniques, getting familiar
Speaker 2: with real world scenarios.
Speaker 1: It's like a training simulation for actual hacking.
Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it. You're getting experience,
Speaker 2: but in a safe environment, right.
Speaker 1: No real world consequences if you make a mistake, exactly.
Speaker 2: So CTFs are awesome for building your skills. And then
Speaker 2: they're bug bounty programs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we touched on those earlier. Remind me how those
Speaker 1: work again.
Speaker 2: So companies will actually pay you to find vulnerabilities in
Speaker 2: their systems.
Speaker 1: Wait, so I can get paid to hack.
Speaker 2: Well, it's ethical hacking. Remember you're working with their permission.
Speaker 1: Right, of course, So it's more like you're a consultant
Speaker 1: helping them improve their security exactly.
Speaker 2: And the rewards can be pretty sweet. Some programs offer
Speaker 2: thousands of dollars for critical vulnerabilities.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's pretty good. So you're learning, making a difference,
Speaker 1: and getting paid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great deal. Plus it's a great way
Speaker 2: to build your reputation.
Speaker 1: Makes sense. Companies are going to want to hire someone
Speaker 1: who's already proven they can find those vulnerabilities.
Speaker 2: And they might even hire you directly from a bug
Speaker 2: bounty program.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, so it's like a direct pipeline to a job.
Speaker 2: It can be.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, bug bounties are a fantastic opportunity.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we've got CTFs, bug bounties, lots of ways
Speaker 1: to get real world experience. Okay, but what about those
Speaker 1: of us who are just starting out. What's a good
Speaker 1: first step?
Speaker 2: Honestly, just pick something and try it. Don't be afraid
Speaker 2: to jump.
Speaker 1: In, even if you're a beginner.
Speaker 2: Especially if you're a beginner. There are CTF platforms and
Speaker 2: bug bounty programs specifically for people who are just starting out.
Speaker 1: Oh, good to know. So there are resources for every level.
Speaker 2: Yep. The key is to just be curious, keep learning,
Speaker 2: and don't get discouraged. That's really the foundation of the
Speaker 2: hacker mindset.
Speaker 1: Okay, the hacker mindset, we talked about it a bit before,
Speaker 1: but I feel like we could go deeper. What does
Speaker 1: it really mean to think like a hacker?
Speaker 2: It's all about curiosity, creativity and always questioning things, looking
Speaker 2: at a system and asking how could I break this?
Speaker 1: So it's not about wanting to break things, it's about
Speaker 1: understanding how they could.
Speaker 2: Be broken exactly. Ethical hackers use that knowledge to protect systems,
Speaker 2: not to exploit them.
Speaker 1: So you're always thinking a few steps ahead, anticipating the
Speaker 1: bad guy's moves exactly.
Speaker 2: And it takes practice to develop that kind of thinking.
Speaker 2: You have to challenge yourself to see things differently.
Speaker 1: Okay, so how do you actually do that? How do
Speaker 1: you train your brain to think that way?
Speaker 2: One way is to start looking at everyday things and
Speaker 2: try to break them down. Think about how they work,
Speaker 2: how they could be manipulated, where the weak points might be.
Speaker 1: So like looking at a door and thinking about all
Speaker 1: the ways you could pick the lock exactly.
Speaker 2: It's about seeing the world through a different lens.
Speaker 1: That's a cool way to think about it. It's almost
Speaker 1: like a superpower.
Speaker 2: It kind of is, yeah, and it's a useful skill
Speaker 2: to have in all sorts of situations, not just cybersecurity. Right.
Speaker 1: It's about problem solving, thinking outside the box. Okay, so
Speaker 1: we've covered a lot about becoming a pen tester, but
Speaker 1: what about the future of the field. What are some
Speaker 1: of the big challenges pen testers are facing these days?
Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest is just the sheer
Speaker 2: complexity of technology. Now everything is connected, Everything is evolving
Speaker 2: so quickly.
Speaker 1: It must be hard to keep up it is.
Speaker 2: You've got cloud computing, mobile devices, the Internet of things.
Speaker 2: It's a constantly moving target.
Speaker 1: So pen testers need to be super adaptable and always
Speaker 1: learning new things.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you can't just be an expert in one area anymore.
Speaker 2: You need to have a broad understanding of how everything
Speaker 2: works together.
Speaker 1: Right. It's like being a doctor who has to treat
Speaker 1: all kinds of.
Speaker 2: Different patients exactly, and you always have to be learning
Speaker 2: new treatments and techniques. The field never stands still, so.
Speaker 1: Lots of challenges. But are there also new opportunities.
Speaker 2: Oh tons. One area that's really taking off is cloud security.
Speaker 1: Makes sense, that's where everything is moving.
Speaker 2: Right, and it's a whole new set of challenges. Pen
Speaker 2: testers need to understand how to secure those cloud environments.
Speaker 1: So it's like the wild West of cybersecurity kind of.
Speaker 2: There's so much to explore and so much room for growth.
Speaker 1: That's exciting. So it sounds like the future of pen
Speaker 1: testing is pretty bright, I think.
Speaker 2: So as long as there's technology, there will be a
Speaker 2: need for people who can find and fix vulnerability.
Speaker 1: That's good to hear. Well, this has been a really
Speaker 1: eye opening conversation. I'm sure our listeners are feeling inspired
Speaker 1: to learn more about this.
Speaker 2: World, I hope. So it's a fascinating field and there's
Speaker 2: always room for more talented people.
Speaker 1: All right, welcome back to our deep dive. We've covered
Speaker 1: a lot of ground on penetration testing, but there's one
Speaker 1: crucial element we need to discuss.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, we can't talk about ethical hacking without talking
Speaker 2: about ethics, right.
Speaker 1: So it's not enough to just be good at finding
Speaker 1: those vulnerabilities. You got to do it the right way exactly.
Speaker 2: Ethical hackers have a responsibility to use their knowledge for
Speaker 2: good to protect those systems, you know, not exploit them, right.
Speaker 1: Like you're being trusted with some pretty sensitive information.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's a big responsibility, that's for sure. And that's
Speaker 2: why ethics is woven into every part of penetration testing,
Speaker 2: from the initial scope all the way to the reporting
Speaker 2: at the end.
Speaker 1: Okay, so can you give me some examples, like how
Speaker 1: do ethics actually play out during a pentest?
Speaker 2: Sure? And imagine you're testing a company's system and you
Speaker 2: find a vulnerability that gives you access to customer data.
Speaker 1: Oh, sensitive stuff.
Speaker 2: Right, as an ethical hacker, you have to report that
Speaker 2: vulnerability right away and not you.
Speaker 1: Know, go snooping around in people's data.
Speaker 2: Exactly. You only access what's absolutely necessary to show the
Speaker 2: impact of that vulnerability.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you're not trying to cause any harm, You're
Speaker 1: trying to prevent harm exactly.
Speaker 2: The goal is to help organizations make their security better,
Speaker 2: not to exploit weaknesses for personal gain.
Speaker 1: Right. So it's a fine line demonstrating the risk but
Speaker 1: not actually putting anything at risk.
Speaker 2: It is, and this ethical mindset goes beyond the technical stuff.
Speaker 2: It's about confidentiality, respecting agreements, always putting the client's best
Speaker 2: interests first.
Speaker 1: So ethical hacking is about character, not just skills.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, honesty, integrity, those are crucial qualities.
Speaker 1: Okay, I get that ethics are essential, but how do
Speaker 1: you ensure that all ethical hackers are actually following those principles.
Speaker 2: Well, that's where professional organizations and certifications come in.
Speaker 1: Right, those badges we talked about.
Speaker 2: Earlier Exactly, groups like the EC Council, they don't just
Speaker 2: validate your technical skills, they also emphasize ethical conduct.
Speaker 1: So you're not just proving you can do it, you're
Speaker 1: proving you'll do it the right way.
Speaker 2: Exactly. A lot of these certifications have a whole code
Speaker 2: of ethics that you're expected to follow.
Speaker 1: Ah, so it's like a hippocratic oath for ethical hackers.
Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it. And remember technology
Speaker 2: is always changing, so the ethical considerations they change too.
Speaker 1: Right, what might be okay today might not be okay tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Ethical hackers have to stay informed, keep learning about
Speaker 2: new laws and best practices.
Speaker 1: So it's a continuous process of learning and adapting.
Speaker 2: Got it, exactly.
Speaker 1: Wow, We've covered a ton in this deep dive. Skills tools,
Speaker 1: real world experience, the hacker mindset, and now the ethics
Speaker 1: of it all. It's clearly a complex field but fascinating too.
Speaker 2: Really is challenging, but ultimately very rewarding.
Speaker 1: So for anyone listening who's thinking about dipping their toes
Speaker 1: into the ethical hacking waters, what advice would you give them?
Speaker 2: Never stop learning. Cybersecurity is constantly evolving, so stay curious,
Speaker 2: be part of the community, don't be afraid to ask questions.
Speaker 1: Embrace that hacker mindset of continuous learning and exploration.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, and remember it's not just about the technical stuff.
Speaker 2: Integrity and responsibility are just as important.
Speaker 1: Right, use your powers for good exactly.
Speaker 2: Have fun with it too. It's a challenging feel, but man,
Speaker 2: it's rewarding knowing you're making a difference in the world.
Speaker 2: That's a great feeling.
Speaker 1: Couldn't agree more. Well, this has been an incredible journey.
Speaker 1: A huge thank you for sharing your expertise and taking
Speaker 1: us on this deep dive into penetration testing.
Speaker 2: My pleasure. Always happy to spread the word about ethical hacking, and.
Speaker 1: So all our listeners out there, remember, stay curious, stay ethical,
Speaker 1: and never stop exploring the world of cybersecurity. This is
Speaker 1: a fascinating field and who knows. Maybe you will be
Speaker 1: the next generation of ethic hackers protecting the digital world.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us.