WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:10.519 All right, we are getting live here. Welcome everybody. I 2 00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:15.320 hope you can hear me just now clicking on. We 3 00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:17.120 want to make sure do the audio test. Make sure 4 00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:19.120 everybody can hear us. Fine, but I'm sure we're gonna 5 00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:30.399 be getting fussing, echoes, fussing. Can everybody hear me? Okay? 6 00:00:31.239 --> 00:00:34.439 Let it catch up here? Make sure they can hear us. 7 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:40.240 M delicious. 8 00:00:43.479 --> 00:00:45.600 All right, everybody can hear me now if you would, 9 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:48.679 we have father, a deacon and an eyas with us again. 10 00:00:48.920 --> 00:00:51.439 Give us a little sound check there. Make sure that 11 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:52.000 they can hear you. 12 00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:58.479 Okay, my sound check is happening right now. Hopefully it 13 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:02.039 sounds good to everyone. 14 00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:03.719 Can you guys hear him? 15 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:06.799 Complaints? Can you hear me? 16 00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:09.719 They'll let us know here in a second. It always 17 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:16.799 takes a second for the chat. Catchup. All right, everybody says, 18 00:01:16.840 --> 00:01:19.920 both are great. Thank you. By the way, I want 19 00:01:19.959 --> 00:01:23.079 to congratulate you on your technology stream. That was a 20 00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:25.599 great stream. I watched the whole thing. It was very 21 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:29.640 relevant to the material that we cover at Jasonnalysis. I'm 22 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:33.760 thankful to also have the Larchet book. I'd got to 23 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:36.680 copy that from my priest a few weeks ago. So 24 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:42.400 thank you to him, and I will I think I've 25 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:45.120 added that to my reading list at Jays Analysis. If not, 26 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:46.400 i'll do it, but I think it's. 27 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:50.920 On that great book. Great book. 28 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:53.519 For a long time, I've been wanting to do a 29 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:57.000 stream Jerusalem and Athens because we keep coming back to 30 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:00.640 the issue of in all the debates discussions with the 31 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:02.480 Roman Catholics or whoever, we keep coming back to this 32 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:07.920 issue of what is the correct relationship between revelation and 33 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:14.960 human reasoning, between Jerusalem, Moses and this hate when this 34 00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:22.400 thing readjusts and autonomous reasoning. So I want to talk 35 00:02:22.439 --> 00:02:27.719 about that because that relates to philosophy, the medieval synthesis. 36 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:30.919 I want to talk about logos and logi because a 37 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:32.680 lot of people have a lot of questions about that. 38 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:36.479 If we can, I'd like to talk about some of 39 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:37.919 the things that you brought up in your stream that 40 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:40.520 I didn't know. I didn't even I never knew as 41 00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:44.759 a apologies as in a Catholic I've never heard the 42 00:02:44.759 --> 00:02:48.199 objection that one of the reasons that they got rid 43 00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:50.199 of Mary Clergy was so that the church could get 44 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:53.639 the money. That's a that's so obvious. I never I 45 00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:55.560 never thought about that. So I want to talk about 46 00:02:55.599 --> 00:02:58.360 a lot of those objections that you pulled up, and 47 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:02.639 then a couple other ones you mentioned I'd never heard actually, 48 00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:05.439 so we'll do some of those, and then I want 49 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:09.840 to talk about Amazon's synod. I've looked over the documents. 50 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:13.479 I think many of us have if you haven't seen 51 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:15.039 them Allso okay, it's not a big deal because we 52 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:18.599 kind of I see it as kind of the next 53 00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:21.759 stage beyond Vatican two. And so for everybody out there, 54 00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:25.919 remember to subscribe to Norwegian News when he talks. I'll 55 00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:27.840 by the way, I forgot to know I did add 56 00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:29.479 his channel in there. I think his channel is in 57 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:32.439 the yeah, gets in there. So everybody subscribe to our 58 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:37.639 friend Norwegian News on YouTube. And then the second half 59 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:40.439 of this talk will of course be for subscribers, So 60 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:43.280 you have to subscribe to Jay's analysis or you can 61 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:46.039 subscribe on the YouTube channel as well. Either way, it's 62 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:48.159 the same material, it's no different, just two different ways 63 00:03:48.159 --> 00:03:51.319 to subscribe to the same content. So let's get into this. 64 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:56.080 Let me ask you a question. Playing Devil's Advocate. I've 65 00:03:56.120 --> 00:03:58.599 answered this a lot on my streams and on my 66 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:02.319 shows and podcasts and essays, what would you say to 67 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:07.080 the person who says, you know, look, you come at us, 68 00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:09.800 say a Roman Catholic, or could even be a Protestant 69 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:16.079 for that matter. In some cases, with this critique of Hellenism, 70 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:21.079 and you're criticizing Hellenism, isn't orthodoxy just Hellenism itself. Doesn't 71 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:24.879 it have a medieval synthesis of its own? Aren't you 72 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:28.879 just being hypocritical and having a double standard by calling 73 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:36.040 out the attempt to merge your revealed Hebrew theology supposedly 74 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:39.079 with the ideas of the Greeks. I mean, isn't that 75 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:43.079 what's going on when John says the word logos. I 76 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:44.600 know we've touched on this a little bit last time, 77 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:47.279 but I want to reiterate this because it's a big deal. 78 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:57.439 Yeah yeah, So I'd say that it seems the primary 79 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:00.360 difference is, and I mentioned this in my in my 80 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:06.439 last talk talk, that are you guys getting an echo 81 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:06.959 in an echo? 82 00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:11.680 They shouldn't be getting one now because if you're talking, 83 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:12.959 I'm on mute. 84 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:22.439 So okay, okay. You know, we've discussed that it's impossible 85 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:26.199 for people to be one wrong one hundred percent of 86 00:05:26.279 --> 00:05:27.879 the time, and it's because we're made in the image 87 00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:32.920 of God, and so so what that requires is that 88 00:05:36.199 --> 00:05:41.879 for the Orthodox, we're still getting echo. People are saying, 89 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:43.279 I don't I don't. 90 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:47.480 Know behind, so hold on, I'll see this every time. 91 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:50.839 I don't know why it does this, And every time 92 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:52.600 I fix it and I set the settings to be 93 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:56.800 the exact same for the next installment, and then it 94 00:05:56.839 --> 00:05:57.439 does it again. 95 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:01.600 I don't know why, because it's the devil. Why. 96 00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:10.720 All right, I'm gonna fix so. I know you can't 97 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:14.839 focus with the echo. I'm gonna fix it. Okay, I'm 98 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:16.639 not talking to you, I'm talking to them. I get 99 00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:17.560 frustrated with these people. 100 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:23.600 The chat echoo. 101 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:27.319 Keep in mind people that the chat that I see 102 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.959 is it's staggered, so I can't immediately see what's going 103 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:33.439 into the chat. It's about thirty seconds to a minute 104 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:36.240 behind what I see, So it takes me a minute 105 00:06:36.279 --> 00:06:38.959 to figure out where we're at. And then once we 106 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:42.639 get it right, we'll roll. I know it's it's so 107 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:49.199 let me think how this works. There's three different inputs. 108 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:56.160 That's the problem. Let's because they can't hear me. 109 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:00.480 So can you guys hear me? When I'm can do 110 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:05.399 you hear an echo everybody, and I'll wait one minute 111 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:06.279 for your response. 112 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:10.759 All right, how about now, how do we sound? 113 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:16.959 How do we sound? Guys? Small echo, but I guess 114 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:24.120 it sounds better for people perfect. I'm getting the thumbs up. 115 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:28.360 Okay. I think it has to do with Indie source. 116 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:33.959 If Indie I source is turned up, it causes the echo. 117 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:36.199 So if I have to let me make a note 118 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:40.160 of that, so I remember, turn Indie source down. 119 00:07:52.279 --> 00:07:53.360 Are you on mute jay? 120 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:56.399 Let's say if you would talk a little bit, make 121 00:07:56.399 --> 00:07:57.120 sure we can hear you. 122 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:02.800 Okay, let's see if we are sounding good, sounding good, 123 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:04.759 it's a good thing. 124 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:07.720 Yeah, I know the echo. I know the echo is 125 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:09.879 on his side. It's it doesn't have to do with that. 126 00:08:10.040 --> 00:08:12.120 It has to do with the way that it's set 127 00:08:12.199 --> 00:08:16.079 up when you're using Indie, So Indii causes it creates 128 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:18.560 two different sources when you try to pipe in somebody 129 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:21.680 through Skype. It's confusing. I don't even understand it. So 130 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:25.079 I have to do this every time. So I think 131 00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:26.959 I just need to turn down the Indie source is 132 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:29.720 the key. So I've got that noted for the future, 133 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:31.439 for future, because that had the same problem last night. 134 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:34.600 With Owen anyway, I'm sorry, father, dig go ahead. What 135 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:36.320 do you say to the person who says, hey, look, 136 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:39.000 we're all doing medieval synthesis. We're all just trying to 137 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:42.440 merge with and talk the language of philosophy. Why is 138 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:43.480 it such a big deal. 139 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:51.080 Again, So there's a distinction between the Orthodox using philosophers 140 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:56.360 where they get things wrecked right, where they're speaking truth. 141 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:01.039 As I said that it would be impossible for any 142 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:05.080 one person to be wrong one of the time, and 143 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:10.919 so obviously is Christianity is spreading through the Ah, through 144 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:16.679 the Empire, within the Greek language, and people embraced Hellenism 145 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:21.399 is saturated through the entire empire. The Church had a 146 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:27.159 duty to use philosophy to show them the things of faith. 147 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:34.320 Now that's quite different than using philosophers to point to 148 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:38.200 the truths that are higher truths in the faith, than 149 00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:43.320 to actually take one's theology and marry it to a 150 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:51.120 particular philosophy. Then you're committed. So for example, we see 151 00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:57.879 this synthesized and reach its pinnacle and aquinas in the Scholastics, 152 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:04.840 and therefore you're admitted to certain type of Aristotelian evenimes 153 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:13.720 neo Platonic language, potency, actuality that really ends up causing 154 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:16.960 some theological problems. So it's not that again that we're 155 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:24.840 fideist that we wouldn't use philosophy. The difference is embracing 156 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:29.840 a whole metaphysics and forcing your theology into a philosopher. 157 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:36.480 And as we talked, one of the primary problems that 158 00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:44.440 arises from this is the Greek understanding of being necessity 159 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:54.559 and the divine is an impersonal, absolutely simple force that 160 00:10:55.159 --> 00:10:58.159 when you embrace that, if you can't separate from that, 161 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:02.399 you're going to have some theological problems as we do. See. 162 00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:07.000 So I think for you and myself that this is 163 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:10.840 what we're pointing out. We're not saying that we never use, 164 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:18.519 you know, philosophy. We don't embrace the metaphysics the philosophical 165 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:23.600 projects and then try to force our theology into those paradigms. 166 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:27.759 The West has done that, and that's why we have 167 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:29.320 theological problems in the West. 168 00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:32.240 Yeah, and you're right, we did touch on that last time. 169 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:34.919 I've got a really simple example that I've used many 170 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:37.080 times in my talks, and I want to reiterate it 171 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:39.679 for viewers. I wanted to get your take on it. 172 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:42.960 Fe free to disagree or qualified if you see it 173 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:45.799 as it needs to be more nuanced. But if you 174 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:48.320 want to illustrate this problem, let's take an example of 175 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:52.840 something like saying, well, do you believe in one God? Now, 176 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:54.399 a lot of people would say, yeah, I believe in 177 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:58.840 one God. So let's take the phrase one God. Does 178 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:02.039 that mean that because many different religions, many different groups 179 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:04.519 would say I believe in a God or one God. 180 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:10.120 That therefore the meanings across all these systems are synonymous. No, 181 00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:12.960 I mean, of course not right. So if I said 182 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:16.399 I believe in one God, could I join forces with 183 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:20.159 someone who believed that that one God was Satan? What 184 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:24.279 about one God equaling Father? That would be our view, 185 00:12:25.159 --> 00:12:27.440 We believe in one God because of one Father, Paul says. 186 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:32.000 Or what about a Greek philosopher Aristotle, perhaps Plato? The 187 00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:36.519 one quote God is just an abstracted monad thought thinking 188 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:40.320 itself the one whatever. Right, So we can have a term, 189 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:47.799 a phrase that means that has different meanings in a 190 00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:50.000 whole bunch of different context. Now, I know that's kind 191 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:53.600 of a basic common sense idea, but unfortunately, especially in 192 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:56.480 the Tomistic scheme, the idea of generic theism, the idea 193 00:12:56.559 --> 00:13:01.600 of classical apologetics. The tendency that we run into is 194 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:06.440 the assumption that words are synonymous across systems. Right, And 195 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:08.480 I think we did illustrate this. Yeah, they have a 196 00:13:08.600 --> 00:13:11.720 unifical meaning across systems. I'm not talking about Aquinas saying 197 00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:14.840 that we can't predicate unifically of God. I'm talking about 198 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:19.600 system to system. Right, when the Satanist says there's a God, 199 00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:22.480 or if a I don't know, a Buddhist says there's 200 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:25.159 a God, right, they all mean different things. So the 201 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:30.320 phraise the we can't commit what's called the word concept fallacy. 202 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:32.720 And that's what's key here. And I'm saying this because 203 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:34.720 this is a problem that I've run into over and 204 00:13:34.759 --> 00:13:38.360 over and over so many times with the Thomas. It's 205 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:40.559 a problem I had, and I've seen it come up 206 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:43.200 this weekend debates and discussions. It's an issue I had 207 00:13:44.600 --> 00:13:46.679 when I was a Thomas and I was looking at 208 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:50.039 orthodoxy and I kept wanting to say, well, look, we're 209 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:53.240 all just saying the same thing. We use the same words. 210 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:58.559 Why can't it just be that we're speaking the same language. 211 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:00.440 But we got to just be clear on what we're 212 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:02.039 saying and realize that we're all saying the same thing. 213 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:06.519 And then I realized, oh, we're not saying the same thing, right. 214 00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:09.600 And you know, this idea comes up in philosophy too 215 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:14.039 with intentionality. Now an intentionality within philosophy, that doesn't mean 216 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:17.519 I have an intention to do something, but it means 217 00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:23.679 words and thoughts that are about something and directed at something. 218 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:30.240 And we can use the same words and hit different 219 00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:37.559 realities and entities. So, for example, what was a late father? 220 00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:42.679 Thomas Hopgot talks about love who's not? For love? Love 221 00:14:42.759 --> 00:14:47.840 is great love? What love? How love? Who? And what 222 00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:52.000 he's getting at. It is the same principle that you know, 223 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:55.639 we have the secular culture of saying love wins. We 224 00:14:55.720 --> 00:14:58.320 have Crolyism saying love is the sum of the law. 225 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:03.080 These are all the same words with entirely different meanings. 226 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:08.000 For the secular world and the occult love means something 227 00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:15.200 like personal desire. For the Christian and the Orthodox, love 228 00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:19.039 is canotic, it's pouring out, it's sacric it's just the opposite. 229 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:23.000 It's the inversion of surprise, surprise of the world. And 230 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:31.000 so it's very important that we understand, well, what are 231 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:36.840 we signifying what reality? The word isn't important. It's the 232 00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:40.440 concept that it's signifying. And Christ realizes us too when 233 00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:43.399 he says, who do you say that I am? Or 234 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:45.639 you get the evangelicals say this all the time, I'm 235 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:49.480 a believer? Is he a believer? Believer in what? Who? 236 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:56.759 An historian? Jesus, the ary in Jesus the you know, 237 00:15:56.840 --> 00:16:00.399 take your pick. That everybody has a different gen So 238 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:06.480 it's quite important to hammer these things out that. Obviously 239 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:11.600 the word is equivocal in this sense, and it's important. 240 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:16.200 So going back to this kind of generic notion of 241 00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:20.000 God that we'll all just mean the same thing. What's 242 00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:25.720 the analogy that man's blind and God's an elephant? Ridiculous metaphor, 243 00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:31.159 but we're all just trying to describe different in different 244 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:34.120 ways because we're limited. Well, first of all, the problem 245 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:41.120 with that is a denial of what's revealed in scripture. 246 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:44.279 God is the Lord and he has revealed us himself 247 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:50.440 to us. And that's what's so important about the Orthodox 248 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:54.399 faith is where is our starting point? Is it in 249 00:16:54.519 --> 00:16:58.639 pagan man made specuative of philosophy, in which case, yeah, 250 00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:03.559 we are all blind and not only not feeling the elephant, 251 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:08.319 we're just locked in our heads doing this metaphysicals and 252 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:11.359 ontological speculation about and of course you're going to get 253 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:15.160 all kinds of different descriptions. But when your starting point 254 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:19.039 is the Lord God, who has revealed himself to us, 255 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:24.000 then he tells you who he is, and he's not 256 00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:29.519 a generic monad. That God's being and this was the 257 00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:36.319 problem with the Greeks, is that God's being an existence, 258 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:42.160 was through his ussia, his his substance, and that is 259 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:49.119 Basil and the other Fathers explicate and explain that God's 260 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:54.640 existence is contingent upon his hypostasis. It's God is hypostasis, 261 00:17:54.680 --> 00:18:00.160 the father hypostasis that gives his being, and not the 262 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.680 other way around. That you see it as first and 263 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:06.759 then let's try to work out personhood. And so when 264 00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:10.960 you embrace that type of philosophy, then of course you're 265 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:13.359 going to come up and say things like, well, we're 266 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:16.279 all just worshiping the same God and different stuff. And 267 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:19.519 that's why Besil says you cannot conceive of God apart 268 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:24.319 from trinity. There is no God apart from hypostasis. The 269 00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:30.279 Greeks never were able to develop a notion of personhood. 270 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:33.799 And I would argue, as you would as well, probably 271 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:38.839 the West has never developed any sufficient or robust understanding 272 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:44.799 a personhood. And for the Greeks, being was the unifying principle, 273 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:51.039 the united the many in the universe. But there was 274 00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:54.799 the universe and cosmos. For the Greeks had a notion 275 00:18:54.960 --> 00:19:02.599 of necessity. And so this question arises within Christianity and Orthodoxy. Well, 276 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:06.359 is God utterly free to create? And these are issues 277 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:10.000 that you brought up with the problems with absolute divine simplicity. 278 00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:17.000 If all predicates are absolutely ontologically ident identical with God's essence, 279 00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:21.400 in what sense is he free as creator? His nature 280 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:25.759 is Usiah would bind him. And so the Greeks were 281 00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:31.519 never able to work out this dichotomy between being is 282 00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:35.200 necessity and the cosmos and the freedom that lies in 283 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:38.759 person of it. And this is what the Orthodox are 284 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.519 able to do by saying that God is first and 285 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:47.680 foremost person, and that his being himself the divinity is 286 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:51.240 not through his usia, but through the hypostasis of the Father, 287 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:54.480 and therefore he's utterly free. And you and I talked 288 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:59.440 about this too. In what sense does hypostasis transcend nature 289 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:06.640 or being? Ussia it's because is I might have a 290 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:11.920 nice quote here from Basil at Saint Basil. 291 00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:16.400 If I might add two, it's Epistol thirty eight that uh, 292 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:18.720 if you if you've not read Basil's letter thirty eight, 293 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:23.200 that's where he goes it to great length to distinguish 294 00:20:23.319 --> 00:20:27.039 usia and hypostasis. Uh. So I'm actually going to link 295 00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:30.359 that for everyone because this is, you know, probably one 296 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:33.640 of the most important texting the Church Father is one 297 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:35.680 of the most important letters. I mean, obviously everybody should 298 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:37.559 be familiar with letter two thirty four because it deals 299 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:40.160 with as and synergi distinction. But I'm gonna put this 300 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:43.240 in description as well, and let me add two. So 301 00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:44.960 I've added that. I want to add as well that 302 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:52.279 the if you want to read Edward Fesser, the famous 303 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:55.599 tomester my Nosi festor Is. I mean, he has three 304 00:20:56.039 --> 00:21:00.480 essays on Plotinus's doctrine of simplicity, and if you read 305 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:02.880 those essays, I've got a link there, you'll see that 306 00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:06.599 he says everything that I've been saying. There's no I've 307 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:10.279 not been wrong on any of the critiques of Tomism. 308 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:12.880 In fact, I've had it right the entire time. And 309 00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:14.880 I want to make a point too that what you're 310 00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:16.640 getting at here is that we could look at another 311 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:21.920 diagram that might handy little diagrams here if we took 312 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:27.839 the word hypostasis. If you read the Aeneids, Plotinus uses this. Okay, 313 00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:31.359 he uses this term. Now where exactly he got it 314 00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:36.119 is an interesting question. Perhaps he got it from Greek philosophers, 315 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:38.359 perhaps he got it from New Testament writers. Right, we 316 00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:43.480 don't know. Maybe some philosophers or scholar knows. But let's 317 00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:46.000 keep in mind that what this means in this scheme 318 00:21:46.119 --> 00:21:48.680 is not what it means to us in Orthodox theology. 319 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:50.680 And that's why when you read that letter Basil, you'll 320 00:21:50.680 --> 00:21:52.559 see that it doesn't mean the same. So, for example, 321 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:55.359 in his scheme, if I recall I'm going from memory here, 322 00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:58.640 Plotinus thinks that you have the one, the one gives 323 00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:02.200 birth to the diad I think is the noose in 324 00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:05.519 his scheme. And then these two together, looking at one 325 00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:09.279 another and loving and reflecting on one another, produce the 326 00:22:09.319 --> 00:22:12.160 world soul, the anima mundi, which is the third principle. 327 00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:16.720 So you get this this succession of beings that that 328 00:22:16.839 --> 00:22:20.960 kind of comes into being the world soul or the news. 329 00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:23.960 I forget which one I had some article pulled up here, 330 00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:26.480 I can't remember one of the two links our world 331 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:30.960 to that world. I think the noose links our world 332 00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:35.519 to the ideal realm. Anyway, it doesn't mean the same. Look, 333 00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:38.920 noose is another example here. Noose here does not mean 334 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:42.519 what we think Noos is. Okay, Noos for us is 335 00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:50.200 not some second demi urge principle in the original triad 336 00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:54.079 of platonis. You see, so hypostasis doesn't mean the same thing. 337 00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:59.000 Noose doesn't mean the same thing. Right. These are terms 338 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:03.359 that the same terms in Orthodox Christianity used in Platinas, 339 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:07.680 but they have completely different meanings. Yeah. 340 00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:08.279 Absolutely. 341 00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:10.400 By the way. By the way, I'm gonna grab more coffee, 342 00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:13.240 but keep talking because I am listening and the audience 343 00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:15.359 is going to see you, So feel free. I'm just 344 00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:17.039 gonna pour more coffee, but you won't see me. 345 00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:18.799 Jay, while you're at it, could you grab me a 346 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:20.519 cup of coffee too, and I will. 347 00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:23.359 Important I'll splash it on the screen. 348 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:28.240 Okay, So it would be like. 349 00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:31.000 It would be like Pat Robertson. If you just put 350 00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:34.079 your hands up to the screen, I'll pass the caffeine 351 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:38.200 through the screen into your bloodstream. It'll be a miracle. 352 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:48.920 Hallelujah. So, as Jay pointed out in Saint Basil's Letter 353 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:56.440 thirty eight that he talks about the substance, we see, 354 00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:02.559 the being of something never ex is in a naked state, 355 00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:09.200 without hypostasis, without a mode of existence. And so in 356 00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:12.799 this sense, this is exactly what Jay and I were saying. 357 00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:20.200 In what way does hypostasis or a person transcend nature being? 358 00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:28.039 And in this sense exactly that obviously being substance is 359 00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:35.839 dependent upon its archaean principle, which is hypostasis. And so 360 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:43.119 it is the Father who is the cause of his 361 00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:48.759 being and the processions as well. It's his hypostasis, and 362 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:53.359 that is and again, when Jay gets back, I think 363 00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:58.279 it would be nice to talk about how the Greeks 364 00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:05.960 use the term hypostasis and versus the fathers and why 365 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:07.640 that change occurred. 366 00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:13.720 Yeah, that's a great topic. So enlighten us on that. 367 00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:17.119 How does hypostasius come to change? Because we know by 368 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:19.119 the way John Damascus will treat of this. And I 369 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:25.279 actually just got a Metropolitan Herotheos's book on person Orthodox tradition. 370 00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:28.559 I've read a bunch of that. Now. John Damascus covers 371 00:25:28.599 --> 00:25:30.279 it in the Fount of Knowledge, and he covers it 372 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:36.559 multiple places in exposition of Orthodox Faith. It's also dealt 373 00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:39.720 with very well in God history and dialectic, especially the 374 00:25:39.720 --> 00:25:42.000 way it's treated of in Volume one, which I want 375 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:43.839 to touch on a few quotes out of this. When 376 00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:46.000 you make your point, so go ahead. 377 00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:53.000 So if we go back to ancient Greek philosophy again, 378 00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:58.480 there arcade and first principle of all things is being 379 00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:09.960 or one or the logos and essence being. All of 380 00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:19.920 these things are considered to be general. Person was concrete, 381 00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:24.279 it is concrete. And so one of the problems that 382 00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:28.000 we have going back to ancient Greece, and it's carried 383 00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:32.880 out through the West, is this problem of dialectics and 384 00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:42.559 the inability to synthesize what appears to be contraries. And 385 00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:48.880 one of these was that again substance or usia is 386 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:54.680 the general, unifying principle of nature. So it's abstract and 387 00:26:54.720 --> 00:27:00.519 it's general, whereas person is concrete in particular. And so 388 00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:08.079 again you get this with Plato. What's his ultimate arcade 389 00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:10.960 the form of the good being, and then the form 390 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:15.160 of the good which gives being too. The forms, but 391 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:17.960 that's all general, and so he was not able to 392 00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:23.319 work out any kind of individual concretization of the abstract idea. 393 00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:28.039 So again we see these dialectics that are unable to 394 00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:33.359 be synthesized. And then obviously with Aristotle you get just 395 00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:39.240 the opposite. You get an emphasis on the concrete individual man, 396 00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:46.079 but you have a separation from the eternality of being 397 00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:52.279 in the generals. So this poses and again with the 398 00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:58.079 notion of being or substance of the unifying principle of 399 00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:01.799 the cosmos, you get problems of necessity. So we've got 400 00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:06.960 two issues here going on. The inability to synthesize a 401 00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:12.000