Speaker 1: Today, I'm Always watching. We're gonna be talking about the finale,
Speaker 1: the last three episodes of season two of Fallout. All
Speaker 1: that right after this, Welcome to Always Watching, the strain
Speaker 1: of Pity of the podcast we talk about whatever t
Speaker 1: TV shows me feel like talking about.
Speaker 2: My name's Matthew Carroll and I'm Jay Scotty Saint Clair.
Speaker 1: What's up, Jay Scoots?
Speaker 2: They did the Wang Dang Taffy Apple Tango with us
Speaker 2: bunching up the episodes together like we did. I struggled
Speaker 2: to find a quote that was memorable, but that that
Speaker 2: song that played during the credits of episode seven really
Speaker 2: struck a chord with me.
Speaker 1: It sounds like it. It sounds like it did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I really we talked to We have not covered this
Speaker 1: show very intensely because we've just been busy, but we're
Speaker 1: now doing our second episode, so we're wrapping up the
Speaker 1: last three of Fallout season two, and I will say
Speaker 1: I think it really came together for me in the
Speaker 1: last three. When we spoke after episode five, I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just like I said, it's good, It's
Speaker 1: it's good. It's just I wasn't feeling like new ground
Speaker 1: was being tread if that makes sense. But these last
Speaker 1: three episodes, like with everyone kind of colliding and you
Speaker 1: finally seeing these last few storylines, particularly in the Lucy
Speaker 1: and her father storyline, Lucy and Hank finally getting together,
Speaker 1: that it is really really uh, it blazed the exact trails.
Speaker 1: I won't fall up to blaze, and like I'm starting
Speaker 1: to really now that I didn't play the games, so
Speaker 1: I'm really kind of getting the different factions and stuff,
Speaker 1: and it was I really enjoyed the last three episodes
Speaker 1: a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I largely agree. I felt like they really brought
Speaker 2: it home and the back not the back half of
Speaker 2: the season, but the final part of the season. There,
Speaker 2: I will provide the caveat that I don't feel like
Speaker 2: season two ever quite reached the heights of season one
Speaker 2: for me, but I was still pretty happy with where
Speaker 2: it landed. And I have played a lot of the games.
Speaker 2: I haven't played all the games, but I do have
Speaker 2: to just highlight how influenced this is by Fallout New Vegas,
Speaker 2: which is one of the ones unfortunately I haven't played.
Speaker 2: I know it's a lot of people's favorite, Yeah, and
Speaker 2: that's what I'm always hallmark. Yeah, when it comes to
Speaker 2: the storytelling, but I am I'm pretty familiar with the
Speaker 2: story beats, so yeah, I agree with you. I think
Speaker 2: Lucy and Hank were kind of the kind of focal
Speaker 2: point when it came to the emotion emotional punch there.
Speaker 2: But I really did enjoy where the Ghoul's story kind
Speaker 2: of ended up. And even Maximus, you know, getting to
Speaker 2: have his heroic moment, and even Robert House, you know,
Speaker 2: he's been such a foil throughout the season to see
Speaker 2: him in his not to face to face glory, but
Speaker 2: his resurrected glory there and.
Speaker 1: In all his glory, what's that in all his arnham
Speaker 1: Zola glory. That's right, That's.
Speaker 2: Right, very very much like Arnamzola, even with the planning
Speaker 2: for the future and all the contingencies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even with like that wasn't exactly the same scene,
Speaker 1: but like a few scenes earlier, you see all the
Speaker 1: tape machines turn on down in that other just just
Speaker 1: the kind of computer technology with the green and black
Speaker 1: and the spinning tapes and all of that just was
Speaker 1: very very Aramsole.
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of you know, the Arnam Zola and how
Speaker 2: I think one of the big appeals of fallout across
Speaker 2: both seasons so far is the way that they're able
Speaker 2: to interweave what's happening in the Wasteland but also give
Speaker 2: a really compelling story through the flashbacks and how we
Speaker 2: got here and and all the players that were, you know,
Speaker 2: vying for power, trying to be heroes and and do
Speaker 2: the right thing, and how it ultimately failed. And I
Speaker 2: was particularly interested in, like kind of the emergence of
Speaker 2: the Enclave, who was heavily hinted in season one but
Speaker 2: we haven't had as much of in season two, but
Speaker 2: they definitely emerged as a rat with you know, the
Speaker 2: President seemingly being a member of their their order and stuff.
Speaker 2: I kind of voice concerns about what was going on
Speaker 2: with stuff, But she's really emerged as as quite the villain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think by showing her background and then
Speaker 1: of course she's a villain, she's Canadian. But one of
Speaker 1: my favorite lines in these last three episodes is her
Speaker 1: getting the Bringer to during the wedding ceremony. She's staying there.
Speaker 1: He tells him, he I think she did something to
Speaker 1: I forget his name right now, Woody, Zach Cherry, Woody,
Speaker 1: She's done something to Woody. She's he's not in thirty
Speaker 1: one and I found his glasses and she's done this
Speaker 1: and there's some sort of plan to hurt us all
Speaker 1: and all this stuff and she's Canadian, and that's when
Speaker 1: the crowd goes, oh no, yeah, so fun. It's just
Speaker 1: so fun. Yeah, And just giving her backstory really made
Speaker 1: her a full fledged, fleshed out character for me. For
Speaker 1: the first time, I felt like she was kind of
Speaker 1: she was always just like this mystery, something dark. We
Speaker 1: knew she was from management all of that, but now
Speaker 1: like we got an idea that she's this survivor, you
Speaker 1: know that it's like willing to do anything for survival
Speaker 1: and thinks of all of these people as her sworn enemies.
Speaker 1: They're not humans, they're Americans. Her mom's said, don't think
Speaker 1: of them as humans, think of them as Americans.
Speaker 2: Right right. I think she said something to the effect of, like,
Speaker 2: you know, grab on to the highest branch you can
Speaker 2: and hold on to it for the coming flood, and
Speaker 2: whatever you have to do to survive, don't don't sweat
Speaker 2: it because you're going to be forgiven. So there was
Speaker 2: a point where I was like, you know, maybe Woody's
Speaker 2: still around. Maybe she's just detained him or done something
Speaker 2: with him. But with the flashbacks and the reveals of
Speaker 2: what she's capable of, how she just guts people left
Speaker 2: and right and slits. So I don't think there's any
Speaker 2: hope for for Woody unfortunately.
Speaker 1: Yeah, She's haid a really interesting line. She's like the
Speaker 1: floods come, just cling to the highest branch you can.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what we see when she gets to
Speaker 1: Vegas and she meets Hank and meets all of them
Speaker 1: and finds out there's this this group of Vault tech people,
Speaker 1: and she does whatever she can to cling to the
Speaker 1: highest branch, which is she's just a climber, you know,
Speaker 1: she's a she's a status climber, and she clings to Hank,
Speaker 1: which she's Hank's wife. What but Hank had to have
Speaker 1: a different wife in the Vault. I guess like that
Speaker 1: there's Lucy's Lucy's mom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we got a lot of revelations in season one.
Speaker 2: I think she was just she was his wife in
Speaker 2: the vault, was born in the vault, yes, learn about
Speaker 2: what was going on outside, escaped with the kids, and
Speaker 2: was killed in Shady Sands. Oh no, no, she was
Speaker 2: a Ghoul in the final episode.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, I didn't know, man, I really yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: a little fuzzy on the details in season one. Overall,
Speaker 1: I think the whole show that you mentioned season two
Speaker 1: not reaching the height of season one. I think season
Speaker 1: one was just so signature, the way in the in
Speaker 1: the tone and the comedy, and the way the characters
Speaker 1: were laid out with these very unique voices for each character,
Speaker 1: and the Vaulties. There's such a good humor around the
Speaker 1: Vaulties being so naive and Lucy stepping outside the vault,
Speaker 1: and I think there's and the Gul being so just
Speaker 1: hardened and evil, and I think there's like not really evil,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say, but like hardened and just hard hearted.
Speaker 1: And I feel like there's just something about season two where,
Speaker 1: just using using the Ghoul and Lucy as examples, they've
Speaker 1: come towards each other, and the Gul, they start to
Speaker 1: humanize him in a way where you're understanding his motivations
Speaker 1: more and more, and Lucy is getting darker and darker
Speaker 1: and like ready to do some pretty dark things, still
Speaker 1: trying to be the good guy, but like it's almost
Speaker 1: like the Gul wants to be the bad guy, but
Speaker 1: he has this like nagging goodness within him, and she
Speaker 1: wants to be the good guy, but she has these
Speaker 1: reasons that keep pulling her to the darkness. And like
Speaker 1: they've sort of moved towards each other in a way
Speaker 1: that makes the contrast less stark between their two characters,
Speaker 1: and I think that's and I think that goes for
Speaker 1: like almost all of the plot lines in the beginning
Speaker 1: with Max Maximus, he's I think of him in the
Speaker 1: first season as like like a Mister Magoo type character.
Speaker 1: He's the fool who keeps sort of like succeeding by
Speaker 1: mistake and just sort of like he keeps kind of
Speaker 1: falling into and then by the end of the thing,
Speaker 1: he's fallen into this leadership role in uh with with
Speaker 1: the what would helped me out the brother Yeah, the Brotherhood.
Speaker 1: He's fallen this leadership role out there. And so this
Speaker 1: season he's becoming a little wiser and so he's no
Speaker 1: longer that cartoonish version. And I think part of what
Speaker 1: made the first season so fun is they were realistic characters,
Speaker 1: but they were also kind of car tuons, and this
Speaker 1: season felt a little less cartoony, and I can't. I
Speaker 1: can't hate on that. I think that's good. I think
Speaker 1: it has to do that. I think it has to develop.
Speaker 1: But I still find the lack of contrast to be
Speaker 1: less fun, I guess. But there were a few moments
Speaker 1: this season where that contrast was hit hard and I
Speaker 1: loved it, particularly one of the best. It's just these
Speaker 1: big concept moments the button in episode I believe It's six,
Speaker 1: where Lucy has to decide whether to hit the button
Speaker 1: to control those two guys are about to kill each other,
Speaker 1: you know, and decide like are you going to control
Speaker 1: people like your dad is. He's made his decision, he knows,
Speaker 1: he believes this is the right thing. But you who've
Speaker 1: studied all these book knowledge versions of ethics, you know
Speaker 1: it's not right to control them, you know, but you're
Speaker 1: watching them kill themselves, and can you keep your ethics
Speaker 1: while that that. It's the kind of moments that I
Speaker 1: felt like Season one was full of those big like
Speaker 1: there's a big button, do you press it or do
Speaker 1: you not? Let's have a conversation about it, And this
Speaker 1: season felt a lot more just like we're in the wasteland,
Speaker 1: things are moving towards a big ending, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think those are are fair and astute insights
Speaker 2: and assessments, and I kind of hone in specifically on Maximus,
Speaker 2: and I agree. I think part of what made him
Speaker 2: so fun in season one is that he was a
Speaker 2: little bit of a fool and just a lot of
Speaker 2: happenstance in him getting lucky. One of the big changes
Speaker 2: in season two that I became aware of is I
Speaker 2: think in season one he was a little bit more
Speaker 2: of like the I won't call him the player character,
Speaker 2: because I do think that was Lucy, but in terms
Speaker 2: of him being willing to, you know, do questionable things
Speaker 2: and not be so trusting, I think that was placed
Speaker 2: upon him, and in this season we just saw him
Speaker 2: be a lot more heroic. He had the moment with
Speaker 2: Kumal nan Jeohnny's character, he takes him out, but again
Speaker 2: that feels heroic. He's yea to kill kids, And I
Speaker 2: feel like a lot of that was transferred over to Lucy.
Speaker 2: And to that end, I agree with you that she's
Speaker 2: moving closer to the ghoule and as a byproduct, kind
Speaker 2: of closer to where max was in season two. But
Speaker 2: ultimately I think that's a good thing, because one of
Speaker 2: my complaints about the first half of season two was
Speaker 2: with Lucy, she just kind of felt the same. It
Speaker 2: was fun to see her on drugs and be a
Speaker 2: little more willing to be violent. But really it came
Speaker 2: to a head in these final three episodes with everything
Speaker 2: you're talking about, like the moral dilemma that she's facing
Speaker 2: with mind control and how it could be a solution
Speaker 2: to the rampant violence and chaos that she's seeing and
Speaker 2: acknowledging that the Legion is nothing but killers and doing
Speaker 2: it for nothing. But she I love the line where
Speaker 2: she tells him like you were her father. She says,
Speaker 2: you were a good father to me because I'm not
Speaker 2: a fudge and idiot. I can see through your manipulation
Speaker 2: tactics right now and know that, you know, despite everything
Speaker 2: you taught me, what you're doing now was insane. And
Speaker 2: I really found it heartbreaking that she still saw this
Speaker 2: goodness within her father and wanted to preserve some of
Speaker 2: that through the amnesia. But he took that, he took
Speaker 2: even that from her. There's there's just you know, oh.
Speaker 1: Well, see I took that. I took that differently. You
Speaker 1: mean by not letting her press the button. Career.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she said she was basically going to reset him
Speaker 2: to the father that she thought he was. Oh, I
Speaker 2: think that's what happened, is what I got. He had
Speaker 2: a remote in his hand. They both had remotes in
Speaker 2: their hands. Yes, as I understand, he turned the dial
Speaker 2: all the way up and gave himself full amnesia, because
Speaker 2: he said to the level of amnesia.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, the way I took that scene, I guess
Speaker 1: it's I guess you could say it take it in
Speaker 1: multiple ways. First of all, she says, I'm going to
Speaker 1: turn into the father I thought you were. He knows
Speaker 1: he's not had been that father in a long long time. Like,
Speaker 1: there's no turning him back to the father she thought,
Speaker 1: because he's did the say these jade sands thing happened
Speaker 1: thirty years ago, you know what I mean? Or however
Speaker 1: many years.
Speaker 2: Ago roughly sounds right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that's about how old they are. So I
Speaker 1: don't think there is any any spot on the dial
Speaker 1: you could stop. But the big thing I thought he
Speaker 1: was doing by taking the control and hitting it for her,
Speaker 1: I think she didn't want her. He didn't want her
Speaker 1: to have to do that that was a dark like
Speaker 1: she was struggling with it. And I think that the
Speaker 1: actress who was playing Lucy completely owned that. Last episode,
Speaker 1: she her her emotional her emoting and like just crying
Speaker 1: was so real, just so so real. I was really
Speaker 1: really feeling for her, and I think she knew she
Speaker 1: thought the right thing to do was to reset this guy.
Speaker 1: He's the dark one. He's the one who actually needs
Speaker 1: to be reset. All these other people maybe not, maybe so,
Speaker 1: but maybe not this guy. He has gone too far.
Speaker 1: He needs to he needs to be undone. But that
Speaker 1: that is still killing her own father. And I think
Speaker 1: like that that control button she puts in episode six
Speaker 1: is just two random guys who are bloodthirsty and they're
Speaker 1: gonna kill everybody, kill each other. This is her killing
Speaker 1: the man who raised her and like trolling his mind
Speaker 1: and making his amnesia, like you know, make him forget everything.
Speaker 1: And I think that he took his own control out
Speaker 1: because he wanted to give her like get let her
Speaker 1: not have that have that on her hands. I guess yeah,
Speaker 1: I do like that interpretation.
Speaker 2: I think, hearing your take on it, I kind of
Speaker 2: land somewhere in the middle. I do think he was
Speaker 2: probably saving her from having to do something, but I
Speaker 2: think he was also saving himself from that fate. Oh,
Speaker 2: he didn't want to be a facade or a shell
Speaker 2: of I mean, he ultimately ends up being a shell,
Speaker 2: but that you know he did. I think the idea
Speaker 2: of going back to thirty three and having to you know,
Speaker 2: be the puppet that he was pretending to be all
Speaker 2: those years, like, that's a fate worse than death to him.
Speaker 2: But I I do like what you're bringing there, Like
Speaker 2: he saved her from having to do this, Uh, this
Speaker 2: basically a murder.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I love a physical sense and a mental sense.
Speaker 1: For a character who's proven himself to be so dark,
Speaker 1: and you know, he's controlling in a way that is
Speaker 1: completely unethical. That's that's the whole thing that she believes
Speaker 1: he did one last loving act for her, And I
Speaker 1: think it like makes this all very complicated because he
Speaker 1: was willing to even control her, like he was about
Speaker 1: to put a put a chip in her. That's when
Speaker 1: the line is truly crossed, and she's willing to control
Speaker 1: him too, Like at the end, like they are both
Speaker 1: fully against each other. And I think that he really
Speaker 1: didn't want I think that's a. I think it was
Speaker 1: a loving act in the end, I think, but but
Speaker 1: you know, I think you're you're right. The interpretation's open.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's what makes him such a
Speaker 2: compelling character because at the end of season one, I
Speaker 2: was just ready for her to blow his head off,
Speaker 2: like just take him out like he deserves it. But
Speaker 2: by the end of the season, even though he he's
Speaker 2: very evil, capable of heinous, heinous things, I do think
Speaker 2: in his heart of hearts, like he thinks what he's
Speaker 2: doing is right. And that's just what makes him so compelling.
Speaker 2: He thinks he is the hero and everything that he
Speaker 2: everything he did, he did to protect her. He acknowledges
Speaker 2: that he had to do on savory things, but he
Speaker 2: has no regrets about that, And to you know, have
Speaker 2: someone like that is just can't stand them, but have
Speaker 2: to appreciate the the compelling nature of the character and
Speaker 2: just how conflicted it does make Lucy.
Speaker 1: Absolutely yeah, yeah, I really loved all that. All of
Speaker 1: that stuff was great, Like her performance is wonderful. His
Speaker 1: performance is wonderful too. They're both always really good. And
Speaker 1: I'm guessing he's probably gone from the show. I can't
Speaker 1: They said it's irreversible. I can't imagine they're gonna keep
Speaker 1: that that actor around to play a dumb down version
Speaker 1: of himself. I'm assuming he's done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like his story has come to a conclusion.
Speaker 2: Maybe they'll throw him in a couple of the flashbacks
Speaker 2: if Steph needs some context, you know, for yeah, oh
Speaker 2: that's true. A little bit more, but yeah.
Speaker 1: That's true. He the pre the pre war stuff. He
Speaker 1: could still be there.
Speaker 2: One thing you mentioned with season two being a little
Speaker 2: less cartoony, I I do have to highlight Johnny Pimperton
Speaker 2: as status, like he was such a great source of
Speaker 2: comedy that was so good as you know, the stakes
Speaker 2: were as high as they were, but everything from him
Speaker 2: trying to relate with the ghoul, like we're just a
Speaker 2: couple of ghouls, right, is this normal? He's got like
Speaker 2: the little gaping moss starting to breathe in his collar dome,
Speaker 2: which leads to his arm falling off. But yeah, his
Speaker 2: as You've got the Free Siders all taking bets about
Speaker 2: how long Maximus is going to last, and you have
Speaker 2: people acknowledging, you know, if he dies, we're all next, right,
Speaker 2: And these these bottle caps aren't going to mean anything.
Speaker 2: But it's just just really good stuff. And I loved
Speaker 2: the rooftop reveal with him using his toes to study.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite lines for him in any of
Speaker 1: these episodes. I see this can the second to last
Speaker 1: or the last and they're they're in the desert and
Speaker 1: the ghoul turns around like how did you get that?
Speaker 1: Talking about the little device? And the ghoul has him
Speaker 1: pulled down at gunpoint, you know, Uh, Fatty's Maximus and
Speaker 1: uh Fattius goes all right before this escalates, maybe we
Speaker 1: can all agree that he has a gun like that
Speaker 1: means that that statement meant nothing. It was so fucking funny.
Speaker 1: He just meant absolutely nothing. It's just let's all agree
Speaker 1: he has a gun.
Speaker 2: That is really funny.
Speaker 1: It's so good. I will say that you you you
Speaker 1: mentioned uh Maximus is becoming heroic, and I completely agree
Speaker 1: with you, uh I, But I loved it. I think
Speaker 1: it took me a while to understand what they're doing.
Speaker 1: And he still was that kind of foolish, fearful guy,
Speaker 1: just kind of running from thing to thing until he
Speaker 1: does kill Camil Johnny's character. And then but the ending
Speaker 1: when he shows up and fights so many death clause
Speaker 1: and and gets the free siders like on his side,
Speaker 1: you know, and he's like when he it was straight up,
Speaker 1: I can do this all day. When he gets out
Speaker 1: of the the mech suit and he's holding a freaking
Speaker 1: rulette wheel as a shield and a spear, and then
Speaker 1: the NCR shows up, like it was that was everything
Speaker 1: I need from a good like escalating battle, you know,
Speaker 1: like the hero getting torn down to nothing and then
Speaker 1: you get I mean not to overstate the captain americaness
Speaker 1: of it, but it's him standing there with a shield,
Speaker 1: and then who's on his left the NCR, you know,
Speaker 1: like we're on your left, We're here, And it really
Speaker 1: just so so good that that it got me going,
Speaker 1: like I got I got chill bumps when when the
Speaker 1: NCR showed up for him.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, it was. It was such such a
Speaker 2: great moment. And I really have to praise the production
Speaker 2: value there between the power armor that he was rocking
Speaker 2: and the death clause. I thought the death clause looked
Speaker 2: so so good for a TV budget, and that was
Speaker 2: really one of the moments that kind of embodied the
Speaker 2: gameplay for my purposes. Like I remember, like you start
Speaker 2: off the game, death claus are terrifying, Like you see
Speaker 2: a death claw, you're you're heading for the hills. But
Speaker 2: you get to a point where you can take on
Speaker 2: a death claw relatively easy. You can take on two
Speaker 2: death clause if you're feeling froggy, maybe three, but once
Speaker 2: it gets to be more than that, it's just too
Speaker 2: much to handle. So yeah, really great stuff. And yeah,
Speaker 2: just the flashback to his father saying like you're a
Speaker 2: good son and you're going to be a good man,
Speaker 2: and the fact that he still holds on to that,
Speaker 2: and flashbacks to the night from the Brotherhood of Steel
Speaker 2: saving him but realizing it. I don't have to be
Speaker 2: tied to that. There's there's there's something you know, bigger
Speaker 2: to believe in in the NCR, which I have to
Speaker 2: imagine there were going to be reveals in season three
Speaker 2: that the NCR is not all that they're chocked up
Speaker 2: to be, because that's just the way Fallout works. But
Speaker 2: for the moment, like you said, yeah, it's such a swelling,
Speaker 2: inspiring moment to have them arrive in the final hour
Speaker 2: and say we got this.
Speaker 1: It seems to me that the flaw, there's always a
Speaker 1: flaw right, there's always flaw without refection. It seems to
Speaker 1: me that the NCR was like a valiant good faction,
Speaker 1: but there's just not enough of them, and there's they've
Speaker 1: been've been destroyed. That's at least how they talked about
Speaker 1: them throughout the season was they they haven't been around
Speaker 1: in a long long time, and I love that, Like
Speaker 1: Maximus stepping out in this NCR mech suit like inspired
Speaker 1: the NCR to kind of come back and rally. And
Speaker 1: they're all older because it's an older, older faction and
Speaker 1: they haven't really been doing it. We saw them out
Speaker 1: in the desert with only two or three of them
Speaker 1: saying like, we haven't seen anybody in a long time.
Speaker 1: It feels so video gamey, these like guys standing in
Speaker 1: the desert being like, yeah, it's been about twenty years
Speaker 1: since we saw our friends.
Speaker 2: Like, you know, never underestimate the power of brand recognition.
Speaker 2: Son another great Thaddeus line.
Speaker 1: When his arm falls off, he says, I seem to
Speaker 1: be having a medical episode. He still wants to go.
Speaker 1: He's like, I can figure it out, but I seemed
Speaker 1: to be having a medical episode.
Speaker 2: Why don't you set this one out? Bud and I
Speaker 2: loved what finally got the freesider's attention. Is like he's
Speaker 2: he's hooting and hollering, and when he just throws his
Speaker 2: severed arm on the ground, that gets everybody's attention for
Speaker 2: whatever reason.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, that's right. That's so funny. He like
Speaker 1: throws it out there. Yeah, that's really good. Yeah. Oh man,
Speaker 1: it's just a lot of fun stuff. I really liked
Speaker 1: the golf cart stuff. Teaching her to drive the golf
Speaker 1: cart was just silly and like a nice little father
Speaker 1: daughter thing for the end of the world or whatever.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I liked when he's talking. He's talking about
Speaker 1: the deep ethics of what they're doing and how dare
Speaker 1: you do this? And he's like, daddy's job is really complicated, sweetie.
Speaker 1: He's just such an ass. And then he tries to
Speaker 1: turn controller and he's like, you'll be my little girl again.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: It's also dark and weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and Kyle McLaughlin's you know, the perfect, perfect
Speaker 2: guy for that role, oh for sure. Speaking of fatherhood
Speaker 2: and messed up fatherhood, we haven't really talked about Norm.
Speaker 2: I was I was kind of relieved when we finally
Speaker 2: got an update on Norm because I remember when we
Speaker 2: did the last episode of coverage, I was like, I
Speaker 2: can't remember where we left off with Norm. I remember
Speaker 2: him being strangled, but I don't remember where that concluded.
Speaker 2: And it turns out that is where it concluded. Yes,
Speaker 2: he was strangled to unconsciousness, and we pick up with
Speaker 2: him right there.
Speaker 1: Just still on the floor. Man. He tries to help,
Speaker 1: he wants to help, like, he saves a couple of
Speaker 1: the vaulties, and then they up running it into the
Speaker 1: room and not letting him in. And I like Norm
Speaker 1: a lot. I wish they would do a little more
Speaker 1: with him. I'd like to because I feel like he
Speaker 1: has just as much. I think if they'd given him
Speaker 1: a little more to do this season, it might have
Speaker 1: felt a little fresher because norms outside the vault for
Speaker 1: the first time, and it felt like that was a
Speaker 1: very side storyline, only a little bit, only a little
Speaker 1: bit of movement forward. I mean him letting all of
Speaker 1: the all of the managers out was pretty great. It's
Speaker 1: a pretty great move and it's like, I think that's
Speaker 1: a really interesting storyline, But I do feel like it
Speaker 1: wasn't as explored as the others.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was given significantly less screen time. I think
Speaker 2: there were entire episodes where he didn't show up at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think so too. All Right, well let's
Speaker 1: see I just got my notes now, McLaughlin saying talking
Speaker 1: about the different factions, he's like, oh, you'll understand one day.
Speaker 1: They all have their problems. High Tax is like, that's
Speaker 1: the one he went to first, which just absolutely shows
Speaker 1: he's a corporate man, you know, absolutely speaking of it
Speaker 1: like a political satire. They needed a compliant not too
Speaker 1: offensive but also not too effective, or someone who's gonna
Speaker 1: like turn over the tables, uh, and or anything like that,
Speaker 1: and they picked that senator's head to put on that mainframe.
Speaker 2: I felt so bad for that woman. She was just
Speaker 2: upon the entire season, and she's one of like the
Speaker 2: truly good altruistic people out there. Yes, they use that
Speaker 2: to her advantage. She's an istp personality and they're the
Speaker 2: most malleable and ayahuable. So we're going to use her
Speaker 2: for this purpose. And just her begging to be killed. Oh,
Speaker 2: it was so Specie's hesitation. I was like, please, just
Speaker 2: for the love of God, put her out of her misery. Yeah, like,
Speaker 2: this is the person you're really gonna be like, why
Speaker 2: does everyone want me to get which I I totally
Speaker 2: sympathize with, but like, don't give this poor woman guff
Speaker 2: just do it and then yeah, afterwards to do the thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're You're totally right, And I do feel for
Speaker 1: her a lot, and it was really sad when she's
Speaker 1: o kill me. It was awful. But I the thing
Speaker 1: that I thought was funny about it is I felt
Speaker 1: like from the beginning she kind of represented so this,
Speaker 1: this whole show is like corporate power versus like kind
Speaker 1: of the good guys. And so I'm sorry, but I
Speaker 1: view that through a right left lens. In today's politics,
Speaker 1: they're both pretty corporatists, but like at least there's some
Speaker 1: talk about raining and corporate power on the left and so,
Speaker 1: but it's a constant thing in politics to point out
Speaker 1: how like kind of ineffective and like not really making
Speaker 1: progress the Democrats are, you know, And so I just
Speaker 1: felt like a bit of a like political satire to
Speaker 1: be like, we need someone who's just like not really
Speaker 1: gonna be that effective and gonna tone this is t
Speaker 1: P personality type. Let's just grab a random democrat. That's
Speaker 1: what it feel like. To me, and I realized this
Speaker 1: show doesn't have Democrats Republicans, but it still felt like
Speaker 1: that to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really dark though. When she's the she's the
Speaker 1: main frame.
Speaker 2: Right, And I don't know that we saw like the
Speaker 2: the ramifications of her being killed because she said, like,
Speaker 2: if you kill me, it'll stop him. But do we
Speaker 2: do we see any direct impact on like the people
Speaker 2: that have been transformed via the box because the unless
Speaker 2: to order the legionnaire is still under her control and
Speaker 2: is like choking her at Hank's behest. So that's you
Speaker 2: can install a hip, right.
Speaker 1: So I'm not one hundred percent, but I think the
Speaker 1: idea is they said it's irreversible, so I think like,
Speaker 1: once you're right, you're right. Yeah. So she's like basically
Speaker 1: down loading bits of her personality to all the people
Speaker 1: when the button gets pressed, and then I think after
Speaker 1: that they become little worker bees and then they can't
Speaker 1: be turned back. Is I think he works?
Speaker 2: So she's just effectively prevented any more from being made.
Speaker 1: But I think so, although we know now from what
Speaker 1: Hank's at the end that he sent a bunch of
Speaker 1: them out into the world, which sets up a new
Speaker 1: kind of secret faction for next season where there's Hank's
Speaker 1: fingers are in some sort of weird pies out in
Speaker 1: the wasteland right well, and not.
Speaker 2: The mention of that. We have we talked a little
Speaker 2: bit about the NCR already and I'm sure they'll be
Speaker 2: a bigger player in season three and we'll you know,
Speaker 2: learn both good things and bad things about them. But
Speaker 2: we also have, like I mentioned, the Enclave and this
Speaker 2: this phase two that's been triggered that's a big looming threat.
Speaker 2: But we will talk about the post credit scene with
Speaker 2: the Brotherhood of Steel, but I really want to talk
Speaker 2: about Caesar Kaisar's lead and where we left off with them,
Speaker 2: because they're marching on New Vegas with Mikulkin in the lead.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I feel like we've got so many factions,
Speaker 1: they're all kind of converging now into some big things happening,
Speaker 1: And to be perfectly honest, it's a little too much
Speaker 1: for me right now, Like I don't know the factions
Speaker 1: well enough, and I kind of feel like there's just
Speaker 1: a lot going on, and I don't the show feels
Speaker 1: a little direction less, not direction less, more like a
Speaker 1: lot of directions are being taken at once, and I
Speaker 1: I feel like I have a good enough grasp of
Speaker 1: the show that I'll be able to follow when it's happening.
Speaker 1: But right now, I just don't really know where. It's
Speaker 1: hard for me to predict what's happening next, you know,
Speaker 1: with so many different which is not a bad thing,
Speaker 1: but so many different things happening. And that's the thing
Speaker 1: with Fallow There's all these factions and they all have
Speaker 1: their own little things, their their own little goals. Did
Speaker 1: we find out this season if does this show happen
Speaker 1: before or after New Vegas?
Speaker 2: I think given everything that happens, the intention that it's
Speaker 2: supposed to be after the events of New Vegas, and
Speaker 2: you know, with the games, it's very much choice driven,
Speaker 2: so there are different endings for everybody's experience. But I
Speaker 2: think they have committed to a particular canon ending there
Speaker 2: with Robert House still being on a you know, a
Speaker 2: player on the scene, Okay. I think for people that
Speaker 2: are familiar with the story of Fallow out Vegas, I
Speaker 2: think we're going with the Robert House ending, if you will, Okay,
Speaker 2: player character basically is manipulated by Robert House to do
Speaker 2: his bidding, like he says in the show, everyone eventually
Speaker 2: works for me, right, and he we talked about all
Speaker 2: these factions. He's still there. We see the flicker, even
Speaker 2: though the screen says offline. You see pop up for
Speaker 2: just a second while Maximus and Lucy's backs are turned.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's there's us. The line he says, someone out
Speaker 1: maneuvered me in controlling the world. So so there's still
Speaker 1: just this mystery about like exactly what is the plan
Speaker 1: and what happened, and they still really have We don't
Speaker 1: know exactly what's going to happen that causes the world
Speaker 1: the bombs to drop. You know, I take that.
Speaker 2: I take that other player that he's referring to to
Speaker 2: be the Enclave, because he talks about a faction releasing
Speaker 2: the death clause on Vegas because the U he was
Speaker 2: such a powerful player, and we know that the death
Speaker 2: clause existed pre bombs because of the flashbacks with m
Speaker 2: So that that's kind of where I was led. But
Speaker 2: I think that's it's a fair observation that you're making
Speaker 2: about the number of factions that are currently at play,
Speaker 2: and it might be a little overwhelming, especially for people
Speaker 2: who haven't played the games. But I have to imagine
Speaker 2: there's going to be a fair amount of consolidation, whether
Speaker 2: that's just like early on in season three, factions get
Speaker 2: taken off the table very quickly, like I could see
Speaker 2: like Kaizar's leisured and just being taken out.
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure being a.
Speaker 2: Big deal at all. But I think what's more likely
Speaker 2: to happen is you're probably going to see, like I said,
Speaker 2: some consolidation, probably some people pairing up and kind of
Speaker 2: choosing sides. So you really do have maybe you know,
Speaker 2: two three sides at the most. But another faction that
Speaker 2: I kind of want to mention that was just teased
Speaker 2: in one episode are the Supermutants. That's a huge part
Speaker 2: of Fallout that we haven't really seen in this show,
Speaker 2: but there is a I believe it was episode six.
Speaker 2: After the Ghoul is impaled and abandoned by dog Meat,
Speaker 2: he is saved by a mysterious figure that talks about
Speaker 2: wanting to recruit him and it's Ron pearl Yeah, yeah, Supermutant,
Speaker 2: which is a great call out because Ron Peerlman actually
Speaker 2: lent his voice to fall Out New Vegas. He did
Speaker 2: the opening narration. He starts the game off with war
Speaker 2: never changes, which has been, you know, such a through
Speaker 2: line throughout this show. It's it's the line that Cooper
Speaker 2: uses on barbed to say, oh that's super corul.
Speaker 1: Too, that's super cool, that's super super cool. Oh man, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm put for it. Like I still don't really, So
Speaker 1: the Enclave is just taking in all the information that
Speaker 1: people are sending out. We saw that this episode, this
Speaker 1: last episode with they got I believe Lucy's transmission, they
Speaker 1: got Stephanie's transmission, and they get NORMS transis transmission, right,
Speaker 1: So what is the Enclave? I think that's part of
Speaker 1: my confusion. I still don't really understand who the Enclave is.
Speaker 2: The Enclave is kind of like the shadow government, the Illuminati,
Speaker 2: if you will, within the Fallout universe. So it doesn't
Speaker 2: matter if it's America, Canada, China, Russia, they all have,
Speaker 2: you know, people that are vying for powers and pulling
Speaker 2: the strings behind the scenes. So I think ultimately when
Speaker 2: we ask like who dropped the bombs, because Robert House
Speaker 2: tells Scoop, hey, it wasn't me. You know, whatever happens
Speaker 2: what's coming is not a byproduct of what I've done.
Speaker 2: I think that's where you look to the Enclave.
Speaker 1: Pretty likely doc Clave, which goes back to I think
Speaker 1: in season one when we first meet uh that I'm
Speaker 1: forgetting his real name, but the actor who.
Speaker 2: He's got a weird one like doctor Wizzig or something
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: The guy who plays Ben on Lost if you if
Speaker 1: you're a Lost fan.
Speaker 2: The doctor who gets his head cut off, thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the one. Uh, he's heading to the enclave right.
Speaker 2: Like in in that the fact he escaped the Enclave
Speaker 2: with the cold fusion inserted into his neck with.
Speaker 1: Ah, that's right. I just remember him being at the enclave,
Speaker 1: so like he was part of the enclave. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So that is so sort of one of the inciting
Speaker 1: incidents of the show, and we haven't really seen I
Speaker 1: feel like, at least this season, we didn't see much
Speaker 1: of the Enclave except for just they're still there hoof
Speaker 1: and along listening, you know. So I wonder if that
Speaker 1: being such an inciting incident of the show, it's gonna
Speaker 1: come like you're saying, it's gonna come back around that
Speaker 1: there're gonna be some of the more overarching big bads
Speaker 1: of the show, likely the ones that dropped the bomb
Speaker 1: or at least one of the possible play Yeah, it
Speaker 1: makes a less sense. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And you know, while we're talking about the Enclave, I
Speaker 2: I just, you know, gave a call out to Ron
Speaker 2: Perlman and how cool it was to see him operate
Speaker 2: in a different capacity with a Fallout. But also the President,
Speaker 2: who seems to be a member of the Enclave, was
Speaker 2: played by the legendary Clancy Brown, who is also repurposing
Speaker 2: a role from Fallout. In the original Fallout game, he
Speaker 2: voiced state Brotherhood of a Knight of the Brotherhood of Steal.
Speaker 1: It's super fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I just kind of love how this show
Speaker 2: is embracing all aspects, all aspects of the of the
Speaker 2: universe and franchise.
Speaker 1: M h. I really, I think before next season, one
Speaker 1: of the ways I'm going to get involved and understand
Speaker 1: the factions better is I kind of didn't want to
Speaker 1: play New Vegas before this season because I wanted to
Speaker 1: be kind of surprised by the world. But now that
Speaker 1: I see what's happening now, I think I'll go back
Speaker 1: and play New Vegas.
Speaker 2: I think I may be wrong, but I think there
Speaker 2: was an anniversary edition like recently announced.
Speaker 1: Okay, sweet yeah, sweet, All right, Well, I bet, I bet.
Speaker 1: I wonder if they'll make like the goal playable or something,
Speaker 1: or like him have him in there.
Speaker 2: In Fallout seventy six, which is the most recent game
Speaker 2: to be released, they added some like downloadable content or
Speaker 2: the new part of the new season past or whatever
Speaker 2: he is. I don't think he's a playable character, but
Speaker 2: he's an NPC that you can interact with and like
Speaker 2: do jobs with or whatever.
Speaker 1: Oh that's super fun. That's super funn Yeah, all right, Well,
Speaker 1: anything else about this season before we get out of here?
Speaker 2: No, no, I just again to the listener's apologies for not,
Speaker 2: you know, being able to spread these out a little
Speaker 2: bit more, but glad that we could cover it in
Speaker 2: some capacity, and definitely looking forward to season three.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I really want to try to do all the
Speaker 1: episodes next season. I think even in season one we
Speaker 1: did like every other episode or something.
Speaker 2: But we've heard him up at two at a time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I would be better. I would like
Speaker 1: Let's let's face it, guys, I'm finally gonna admit it,
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I podcast is because I'm bad
Speaker 1: at watching TV and I need an hour to talk
Speaker 1: about every episode. So that I can remember what's going
Speaker 1: on when I try to watch five episodes and then
Speaker 1: talk about it, having not talked in between each one.
Speaker 1: How am I gonna remember five episodes of television? Come on,
Speaker 1: It's not.
Speaker 2: I had a similar thought. I was, you know, wonder
Speaker 2: Man came out. It was so great, and I had
Speaker 2: the flu when it came out, and the one like
Speaker 2: silver lining to having the flu as I was able
Speaker 2: to binge it like almost in one sitting. But then
Speaker 2: I've kind of been going back and I'm like, I
Speaker 2: remember the big swings, But how much of it do
Speaker 2: I actually remember in my like fever dreams of having
Speaker 2: the flu. I need to go back and rewatch some
Speaker 2: of those episodes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I yeah, I that's we We did them
Speaker 1: so quickly because we did all eight episodes and three
Speaker 1: nights of podcasting. We did like I think two the
Speaker 1: first night, three the next night, and then three the
Speaker 1: last night and just like knocked him out and so
Speaker 1: that was great. But John Iron's got to hop on
Speaker 1: a few episodes. It was really fun.
Speaker 2: But uh that guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, check out Captain Game Show. Everybody, let's plug Caat
Speaker 1: in Game Show before we do our plugs. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: it was. It was a good time, but uh, it
Speaker 1: still feels like I watched it really fast, So I'm like,
Speaker 1: did did get to talk in between each one? So
Speaker 1: I have them pretty well pretty well locked in right now. Anyway,
Speaker 1: Well let's uh, let's get out here, tell the people
Speaker 1: that you got you got anything going on right now?
Speaker 2: Well, you can always catch me over on Multiverse News,
Speaker 2: the place where we talk about the latest and greatest
Speaker 2: in movie and TV news, So check that out wherever
Speaker 2: you get your podcast.
Speaker 1: And then I do have.
Speaker 2: Some appearances scheduled for Friend of the network, uh somewhat
Speaker 2: frequent appear on the network. Sarah Day McDougal's other podcast,
Speaker 2: Book Watch. I'm gonna join them for some Hunger Games coverage.
Speaker 2: We're gonna try and you know, get through the original
Speaker 2: trilogy as as well as the more recent stuff. And
Speaker 2: then uh project Hail Mary. I just I just finished
Speaker 2: up that book and absolutely loved it and kind of
Speaker 2: uh invited myself to talk about that one on that podcas.
Speaker 1: So awesome check it out. I'm about to start reading it.
Speaker 1: I really really want to read it.
Speaker 2: Well going on, I'm.
Speaker 1: Also on Multiverse News every week, and I've got the
Speaker 1: Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast every week, and we're right now
Speaker 1: watching Starfleet Academy over on the Star Trek Universe, which
Speaker 1: podcast things. I love it, man, I talk to you,
Speaker 1: I gushed to you, I cried to you about the
Speaker 1: episode before we started this podcast. But yeah, there's the
Speaker 1: if you were a Star Trek fan and you've been
Speaker 1: kind of out of it for a while, I think
Speaker 1: Starfleet Academy, like it's stylistically different. It is about teenagers
Speaker 1: because it's the Academy, so like there's a lot of
Speaker 1: things that people kind of have to get through. But
Speaker 1: so far five episodes in that this fifth episode was
Speaker 1: like transcendent for me, and if you're a Deep Sace
Speaker 1: nine fan, it's particularly transcendent. It was so good. I wept.
Speaker 1: I was so happy with the with the way they
Speaker 1: did this fifth episode. And I've really been enjoying the
Speaker 1: whole series. But episode five, if you're a DS nine fan,
Speaker 1: So if you're a Star Trek fan, check that out
Speaker 1: and check out the Star Trek Universe podcast. We'll be
Speaker 1: talking about that and we'll be back soon.
Speaker 2: Peace, We'll be watching.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to always watching a stranded Panda podcast.
Speaker 1: If you dig this podcast and want to see what
Speaker 1: else we do, go to strandedpana dot com for all
Speaker 1: our other myriad of podcasts in this geeky TV space.
Speaker 1: Thanks again,