WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:03.040 Right, hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of AiZ on 2 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:07.960 Happy New Year. Today we have the Man the Myth 3 00:00:07.960 --> 00:00:11.480 a Legend, Alex Hollins from Sandbox News and Airpower YouTube, 4 00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:15.800 the YouTube show Airpower, and of course Jason Lyons, former Marine, 5 00:00:15.800 --> 00:00:20.519 former CIA officer Andy Milburn is I think traveling. He 6 00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:23.719 went to the Motherland this during the holidays. And Mick 7 00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:27.120 Molroy is just you know, doing Mick Molroy stuff. I 8 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:28.760 don't want to we can't talk about it. He made 9 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:33.200 a sign in DA's. So the big news today that 10 00:00:33.359 --> 00:00:38.799 happened New Year's Day was the I guess terror attack 11 00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:44.439 in New Orleans. Fifteen dead, at least thirty injured. Army 12 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:48.960 veteran I'm gonna fuck up this name, shamsu Din Jabbar 13 00:00:50.119 --> 00:00:53.039 initially thought to have like people working with him and 14 00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:57.159 stuff like that, but that was eventually ruled out. I 15 00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:01.880 is inspired converted to Islam last year, and before the 16 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:05.879 attack he posted a message on Facebook, I guess announcing 17 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:07.599 he was gonna I didn't see the message or anything 18 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:12.200 like that, you know. So it was pretty hectic yesterday 19 00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:13.920 in terms of like when the news is breaking and 20 00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:17.359 stuff like that, you know, just theories. 21 00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:18.359 Fine, everywhere. 22 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:21.359 Initially they were like, oh, it's a guy from not 23 00:01:21.480 --> 00:01:23.439 a US citizen. It turns out it was a US 24 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:29.439 citizen and all intensive purposes, it seemed like the guy 25 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:32.959 was like a normal dude up until about a year ago. 26 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:37.000 So what are you guys looking at in terms of that. 27 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:39.120 I just wanted to get people up to speed him. No, 28 00:01:39.159 --> 00:01:40.920 I know, people are you know following this. 29 00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:43.359 I gotta be honest. 30 00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:46.599 I think that this is a big indicator and maybe 31 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:49.280 an important lesson that we in the United States have 32 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:51.920 not been doing a good job of learning. And that's 33 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:59.519 that radicalization can affect anybody. Narrative management and information operations, 34 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:03.879 especially the type that are aimed at radicalizing people, aren't 35 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:08.120 aimed only at stupid people, you know, to some extent, 36 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:10.919 information operations are the same as marketing. And there's a 37 00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:13.960 reason why advertising is a multi billion dollar industry. It's 38 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:17.800 because it works, and information operations work in a lot of. 39 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:18.520 The same ways. 40 00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:21.080 And this is a strong indicator of that. This guy 41 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:23.360 was in the US Army for over a decade. You know, 42 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:28.360 he deployed to Afghanistan. We're not talking about your traditional 43 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:30.960 the person that you would think a group would go 44 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:34.199 after to radicalize, right, But we know he was going 45 00:02:34.199 --> 00:02:36.599 through some difficult financial times. We know he went through 46 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:41.039 a very difficult divorce. We all go through really tough times. 47 00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:43.840 We all end up at sort of our lowest points 48 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:46.560 at various times throughout our life, and at those times 49 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:50.039 we're most vulnerable to these sorts of efforts, Even if 50 00:02:50.039 --> 00:02:52.879 someone's not aiming them directly at us, it's easier than 51 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:56.039 ever to find yourself in that pipeline through different kinds 52 00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:59.000 of content. So I suppose for me, you know, with 53 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:03.719 a background in studying perception, warfare and information operations, the 54 00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:08.520 big takeaway for me here is that radicalization is not 55 00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:13.879 something that only affects, you know, groups that are traditionally 56 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:16.960 you know, it's not something that only affects low IQ people. 57 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:20.439 It's not something that only affects people who are really gullible. 58 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:23.840 It can affect anyone. And if you are in a 59 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:28.840 position to be affected by this sort of content, it's 60 00:03:28.919 --> 00:03:32.319 really really difficult to intervene, right, because you need to 61 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:35.479 identify what's going on and you need to gain the 62 00:03:35.479 --> 00:03:38.520 trust of that person who A big part of radicalization 63 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:41.599 is isolation. You know, the content aims to isolate you 64 00:03:41.960 --> 00:03:45.800 and then point you at you know, a common enemy, right, 65 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:48.479 And I guess just the biggest takeaway for me is 66 00:03:48.479 --> 00:03:51.360 that if an army veteran with ten years in the uniform, 67 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:54.400 if you know, a guy who has a lot of 68 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:56.639 things going for him but is going through a tough time, 69 00:03:56.759 --> 00:04:01.599 can in the span of a year, uh find himself 70 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:03.879 in this position. I think that that should be a 71 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:05.639 reminder to all of us that none of us are 72 00:04:05.719 --> 00:04:10.360 above information operations and we need to be thinking about 73 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:12.319 and thoughtful about the content that we consume. 74 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:15.759 I agree, I agree, and I think on a to 75 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:22.319 add to that, on a personal level, people knew him, 76 00:04:22.360 --> 00:04:26.519 people know him, so someone may have seen I'm not 77 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:28.600 gonna say someone definitely did, but someone may have seen 78 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:31.519 a change in him. You know, I think I saw 79 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:34.279 I read this morning that people had said that his 80 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:38.079 religious viewed had views, had taken a huge turn and 81 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:42.120 he was becoming more and more extreme. So we in 82 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:46.079 this country like to talk about the twenty two a day, 83 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:48.519 which we should talk about, you know, the veteran suicide, 84 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:51.759 things like that, but that also goes towards radicalization too. 85 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:55.040 Someone may not be talking about ending their own life, 86 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:57.639 but they may be talking about. You know, they see 87 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:00.399 something like this occur on TV and make a comment like, 88 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:04.319 well that's what they get or in favor of that person. 89 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:06.800 Those are things to take notice of. You don't necessarily 90 00:05:06.839 --> 00:05:09.040 have to go running to the police, but those are 91 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:12.680 things that you need to take notice of so that 92 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:15.920 you can interview however that is. I just watched the 93 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:19.959 documentary on PBS. I believe it is about the shooter 94 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:24.519 up in Maine. I believe it was that he was 95 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:28.399 former National Guard guy or was a National Guard guy 96 00:05:28.519 --> 00:05:31.439 and he killed I think it was eight people, some 97 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:36.279 of which were deaf from the deaf community, and the 98 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:39.360 things leading up to that. Everybody people his unit called 99 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:42.680 the Sheriff's apartment on this guy during an active duty 100 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:46.800 deployment because up to West Point, because he had gotten 101 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:48.959 into a fight, he was saying all these weird things. 102 00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:51.279 But everybody from his son all the way up through 103 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:54.120 his chain of commands saw it. Nobody did anything about it. So, 104 00:05:55.839 --> 00:06:00.240 along with being aware of information operations, people who we're 105 00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:02.680 not targeted but are close to those people should be 106 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:06.639 aware of the signs, you know, and be ready to intervene. 107 00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:10.040 That's such a good point that I really do see 108 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:16.079 a direct correlation between veteran suicide and veteran radicalization, because 109 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:18.959 I think that they're probably there are two different symptoms 110 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:22.879 of the same problem, right, veterans who find themselves in 111 00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:27.319 a position that feels untenable and they want to take action. 112 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:30.519 Because one thing that I think service members, by enlarge 113 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:33.839 having common is a bias toward action, right, and that 114 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:37.639 affects suicide rates the same way that it can affect. 115 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:39.439 Attacks like this domestic terrorism. 116 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:42.879 Right, you find yourself sort of at your lowest moment, 117 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:46.120 and you want to do something that can fix it, 118 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:48.800 and for some that's violence toward themselves, for others that's 119 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:51.439 violence towards others. But I think you raise such a 120 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:55.480 good point that these are sort of offshoots of that 121 00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:58.399 same mental health issue that we're not doing a great 122 00:06:58.439 --> 00:06:59.839 job of engaging with. 123 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:04.480 No absolutely, And ye I don't know if you're gonna 124 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:06.279 talk about I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, Alex, 125 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:11.839 but even those whose lives look like their picture perfect, 126 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:16.480 you know, I'm sure we're gonna touch on the Las 127 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:19.600 Vegas incident with the cyber truck. You know, this guy 128 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:24.199 nineteen years SF was a master's shard and I believe, 129 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:26.920 you know, we don't know what his personal life was like, 130 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:29.120 whether there was any kind of strife. I believe he 131 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:31.720 was married. I think his wife. They said his wife 132 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:34.800 had not heard from several days or whatever, but something 133 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:39.279 was going on there. So us in social media land, 134 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:41.720 we're like, you know, oh, man, this guy's you know, 135 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:44.160 he's got it all mash start in SF blah blah, 136 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:47.959 all this other stuff, but we don't know what's to exactly. 137 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:49.720 He's the guy we look up to. And this goes 138 00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:52.680 through I'm saying guys, but gals as well. You know, 139 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:56.319 we look up to these people because much like social 140 00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:59.680 media is, what you know does is we see the good. 141 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:02.120 You know, people are never almost never going to post 142 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:04.839 the bad, so they're always posting the good. Hey, you know, 143 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:08.480 just paid, you know, just bought my third house, whatever 144 00:08:08.519 --> 00:08:11.959 it is. But we don't see what's below the surface, 145 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:14.680 whereas there are other people who do, whether it's a spouse, 146 00:08:14.920 --> 00:08:19.120 boyfriend or girlfriend, a child, even people I used to 147 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:22.879 do security for. I set up a security plan for 148 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:25.600 my a church I used to go to, and one 149 00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:27.680 of the things when we talked to the congregation, we 150 00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:30.920 said was. It's usually going to be the person you 151 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:35.399 see every Sunday who has that one bad Saturday that 152 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:37.879 decides to do something the next day. So that's when 153 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.559 you take notice of those things. You know, hey Jim, 154 00:08:40.600 --> 00:08:43.519 how are you today? And he's not talking, or you 155 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:46.080 heard he's got he's having a divorce and he comes in. 156 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:49.360 We had a gentleman who he ended up being removed, 157 00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:52.399 but he would come into the church and with his 158 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:54.480 wife and children, and then all of a sudden he 159 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:57.080 was coming into the church and sitting completely separate from 160 00:08:57.120 --> 00:08:59.399 them and come to find out as a domestic abuse thing. 161 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:02.080 So you just don't know, you know, And that's the 162 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:05.480 kind of things that people need to be looking at 163 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:07.759 before we get to the point that we did you 164 00:09:07.799 --> 00:09:08.600 know yesterday. 165 00:09:08.679 --> 00:09:13.679 So yeah, these special forces guys are and you guys 166 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:17.720 know better than anyone guys, girls, jumans, there are people 167 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:21.240 just like us who have the same sorts of vulnerabilities 168 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:21.639 that we do. 169 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:23.080 Despite their rommens, amount. 170 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:25.440 Of training and the incredible things that they've done, there's 171 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:27.279 still people at the end of the day. 172 00:09:27.320 --> 00:09:29.519 And you know, the toughest. 173 00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:33.480 People you know, have usually overcome some pretty difficult things. 174 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:36.039 That's what made them the toughest people, you know, and 175 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:38.320 those things can pile up on you, and they can 176 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:41.279 sneak back up on you. I think everybody here can 177 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:44.279 probably attest to when you go through something really difficult 178 00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:48.039 in life, when you lose people, you can be fine 179 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:50.600 for ten years and then I can come back, you know, 180 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:53.159 at the worst time, while other things are sort of 181 00:09:53.159 --> 00:09:56.840 piling up on you, and you know, there doesn't necessarily 182 00:09:56.840 --> 00:09:58.480 have to be a catalyst. There doesn't have to be 183 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:01.279 a divorce or a you know, or you know, your 184 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:05.320 wife leaving you or something there. Sometimes these things can 185 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:07.600 just add up in such a way that you feel overwhelmed. 186 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:11.600 And if there isn't an effective way for you to 187 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:15.480 channel that energy, you're going to find one. And the 188 00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:19.279 ones that you find, especially online, and you know, in 189 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:21.279 this digital environment, more often than not. 190 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:24.720 Aren't necessarily good ways to channel that energy. You know. 191 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:30.240 Radicalization is a science. Doctor Ajitman wrote a book called 192 00:10:30.519 --> 00:10:34.519 Narrative Warfare for a think thing called Narrative Strategies. She 193 00:10:34.600 --> 00:10:36.399 was working with so Calm a few years ago. It's 194 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:39.840 how we met and in her book she talks about 195 00:10:40.360 --> 00:10:43.639 the radicalization process and how you won't you wouldn't think 196 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:47.559 of groups like ISIS or al Qaida as people who 197 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:50.679 use psychology degrees to achieve their objectives. 198 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:54.159 But they do the very same way any other group might. 199 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:57.639 And there really is a pretty tried and true process 200 00:10:57.679 --> 00:11:00.600 that you can put people through in order to them. 201 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:02.440 That's not to say it will work on everybody all 202 00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:05.360 the time, but if you put it out there often enough, 203 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:08.080 at high enough volume, you're going to catch people. 204 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:08.600 In that net. 205 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:13.200 You know. Yeah, and these people, you know, I think 206 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:16.159 the average not the average person. But most people when 207 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:20.879 they think of radicalization, they think of some guy sitting 208 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:25.600 or get sitting somewhere waiting for you know, or they 209 00:11:25.639 --> 00:11:28.840 have a spreadsheet of people that they're gonna cold call to, 210 00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:32.039 you know, to radicalize. No, most of the time their 211 00:11:32.440 --> 00:11:35.480 people come to them. They start searching the dark web. 212 00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:38.279 They go to forums and asking, hey, how does someone 213 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:41.600 hook up with X? And then that's when you know, 214 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:47.320 keyword searches pop up, somebody will refer them and then boom, 215 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:49.480 hey I heard you might be looking for a friend. 216 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:50.799 Of course, they're not going to come right out and 217 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:52.759 be like, hey, I heard you're looking for ISIS. It's 218 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:55.600 I heard you, you know, brother, I understand what you're 219 00:11:55.639 --> 00:11:59.279 going through, sister. My boyfriend cheated on me or or 220 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:02.039 you know, I heard you came out and your community 221 00:12:02.120 --> 00:12:05.600 didn't accept you, blah blah, and then and these things 222 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:09.519 almost never happen overnight. Most of the time, it's what 223 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:12.320 was it a year for this guy? Most of these 224 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:15.919 things happened, just like most intelligence operations happen over a 225 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:21.200 period of weeks, months, and years, you know. So, yeah, 226 00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:25.600 we don't know with the Las Vegas guy, but obviously 227 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:27.000 something happened there. 228 00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:29.279 You nail it because it starts with something that we 229 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:31.279 all do a dozen times a day, which is like 230 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:34.879 seeing a meme that makes you feel heard, that engages 231 00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:38.559 with your sense of identity and the community that you 232 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:41.600 come by that meme from, whether it's a subreddit, whether 233 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:44.360 it's a discord server, you know, whether it's an email 234 00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:47.799 chain for some older folks, the community that that meme 235 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:50.679 arrives to your doorstep on and you feel heard, and 236 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:54.159 you feel as though your grievances are being acknowledged, you're 237 00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:58.600 getting respect, or at least your grievances are. It makes 238 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:01.080 you engage with that community that much more. And that's 239 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:02.879 and those incremental movements. 240 00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:03.679 It's the same way. 241 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:06.200 You know, like in true crime they talk about how 242 00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:09.799 serial killers give themselves allowances. You know, like if if 243 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:11.879 you wanted to start, you know, eating people, Well, you're 244 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:14.679 not gonna start by eating people, right, You're gonna start 245 00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:18.600 by following that woman on the bus, right, And then 246 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:20.519 you tell yourself it's not that big a deal, you know, 247 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:21.679 I left when it was over. 248 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:24.360 But then the next time you don't, right, and then. 249 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:27.080 You get progressively further along until you're willing to do 250 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:29.279 things that otherwise might seem a lot of character. 251 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:31.720 And this process works the same way. 252 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:35.960 You know, Sorry, g we kind of no, no, no, 253 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:36.879 that was incredible. 254 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:38.879 Yeah, I mean. 255 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:41.720 The thing about like, I don't know, the thing that 256 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:44.320 really stuck out to me yesterday was when this happened, 257 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:48.440 you know, you know, early in the morning. It's just 258 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:51.279 a mildness that goes on in Twitter, like as you're reading, 259 00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:53.720 because like you want you want information right away right 260 00:13:53.799 --> 00:13:59.120 like anybody else. And it's just it's just people can't 261 00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:04.879 just relax and like get facts first before, whether whether 262 00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:07.519 reporting about them or speculating about them, and like even 263 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:10.879 speculating about them, like if you're gonna speculate. Say you're 264 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:14.759 this is speculation, right, Like I'm right, yeah, And it's 265 00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:18.600 just I was like scratching my head, be like it's 266 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:21.960 like we're being attacked by one hundred cells from ISIS 267 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:24.120 yesterday all over the country. 268 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:25.159 It's never going to stop. 269 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:27.720 Like this is like a coordinated attack that they've been 270 00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:31.440 planning for years. And meanwhile, I mean, and at the 271 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:35.759 same time, the FBI needs to do a better job 272 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:38.360 in terms of messaging and stuff like that because they're 273 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:41.080 fucking horrible. Like let's let's go like the press conferences 274 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:45.080 yesterday were a joke, so they I mean, they add 275 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:46.879 to it a little bit, but again, like you put 276 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:49.120 it into that Twitter social media world and it just 277 00:14:49.159 --> 00:14:51.360 spins out of control kind of yeah. 278 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:53.679 Yeah, not that parallels in severity, but we saw the 279 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:55.919 same thing with the drones over New Jersey. You know, 280 00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:59.559 we had really poor communication on a government agencies, so 281 00:14:59.559 --> 00:15:03.000 people just filled in the gaps with whatever seems sexiest 282 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:03.360 to them. 283 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:04.919 And the social media. 284 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:08.759 Economy, the digital economy is attention based, not credibility based. 285 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:12.360 So the more engaging your take, the further the reach 286 00:15:12.440 --> 00:15:15.000 is going to be. And usually the more divorced from 287 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:18.240 reality your take is the more engaging it is. So, 288 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:21.279 you know, Winston Churchill said that you know a lot, 289 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:23.279 I'll get around the world twice before the truth gets 290 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:25.159 its pians on. It is you know a lot, I'll 291 00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:28.360 get around the world three dozen times now before the 292 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:30.879 truth will get its pants on. And then people don't 293 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:33.919 want the truth because the truth a lot of times 294 00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:37.759 doesn't align with like, you know, a logical narrative. And 295 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:43.039 we want logical narratives, you know, culturally, it's how we 296 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:47.159 tell stories. But real life a lot of times doesn't 297 00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:50.519 sort of like engaging. That seems sort of cause and 298 00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:53.879 effect chain, you know what I mean. And so what 299 00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:56.960 people will see something that seems as though narratively it's 300 00:15:57.039 --> 00:16:00.480 not necessarily logical, well, lots of people are seeing drones. 301 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:01.960 Narratively, they must all. 302 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:05.159 Be controlled by the same one person or one body. 303 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:07.639 And if people are seeing drones, well then maybe they're 304 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:09.559 not drones at all. It must be this thing that's 305 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:13.759 even more you know, crazy, where in reality, a lot 306 00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:16.080 of what people saw we're just hobby drones or even 307 00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:19.080 law enforcement drones. A lot of them were just airplanes 308 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:23.440 and helicopters. But that narrative is not as engaging, and 309 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:26.679 so because of that, people not only will ignore it, 310 00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:29.919 they'll attack it, you know. And you'll see the same 311 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:33.039 when we're talking about, you know, a terror attack in 312 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:37.440 New Orleans, we're gonna see people who prefer the much 313 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:42.080 more sexy conspiracy narrative over the possibility that there was 314 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:45.279 a really troubled guy who you know, decided to do 315 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:48.720 something crazy, very likely was inspired by others who. 316 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:50.039 Did things that were crazy. 317 00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:54.440 But the conspiracy may not extend much further than a 318 00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:57.919 half a dozen people, you know. But that's that's not 319 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:00.279 the story that people on Twitter want. 320 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:03.320 You know, Hey, guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to 321 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:05.440 talk to you today about a way that you can 322 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:09.160 help support the podcast if you're not already to support 323 00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:12.559 the channel is to become a Patreon member. So we 324 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:15.880 have Patreon memberships that started just five dollars a month, 325 00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:19.000 and when you sign up, you get access to all 326 00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:22.400 of our episodes add free. That's the big bonus for that. 327 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:25.519 I mean, we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for 328 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:29.480 our subscribers, but this is the biggest and best way 329 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:33.839 that you can support the Teamhouse channel and podcast if 330 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:36.799 you'd like to, and we really appreciate that, So go 331 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:41.160 and check us out at patreon dot com, Slash the teamhouse. 332 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:46.640 And one of the Sorry d one of the uh foolish. 333 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:49.319 But at the same time, smart thing that people do, 334 00:17:49.960 --> 00:17:54.880 trolls on the internet do is interject. They inject their 335 00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:56.960 narrative that has nothing to do with it. Like I 336 00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:00.599 was just watching a story on the news and they 337 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:06.599 had a Republican pundit and a Democratic pundit and they 338 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:11.119 were talking about this and one of them we started 339 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:15.240 talking about illegal immigration, and the host is like, well, 340 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:17.359 we need to stop right there. You realize that this 341 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:21.440 guy both of them are US citizens. Yeah, but yeah, 342 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:24.079 but nothing has one has nothing to do with the other. 343 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:27.319 But people will inject that stuff because it rolls up 344 00:18:27.319 --> 00:18:30.319 the base and it keeps them narrative that they want 345 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:34.000 going going. And again that's not what you know, we're 346 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:37.319 trying to talk about here, but it's still it's one 347 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:39.960 of the reasons why. 348 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:43.880 The influencers, that's what lawmakers increasingly are. They want to 349 00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:46.440 get as many clicks and chairs and likes, you know, 350 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:48.079 they want to raise money for the next election. 351 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:52.119 They're not that worried about conveying reality. 352 00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:56.680 You know, it's not necessarily there's there's little incentive for 353 00:18:56.759 --> 00:18:59.920 a politician to air on the side of reality. 354 00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:03.440 Yeah, you know, which is kind. 355 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:05.640 Of wild to me because right like their job first 356 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:08.599 and foremost is like public safety or should be anyway, 357 00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:11.960 and like they should kind of be the people that 358 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:17.680 are the sobering kind of adults in the room. Yeah, 359 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:20.759 they're not. And it's like, you know, pretty disheartening in 360 00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:22.279 terms of like being an American. 361 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:24.680 Yeah, not to bring it back to the New Jersey 362 00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:26.599 drones again, but it comes to mind because you see 363 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:29.440 these lawmakers saying, well, they're not appearing on radar, they 364 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:32.880 must be advanced technology. This guy doesn't know that how 365 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:36.000 radar works. The radar systems that we use, by and 366 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:40.839 large wouldn't detect low flying blod copters. That's not advanced technology. 367 00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:41.920 That's how radar works. 368 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:44.480 But they don't know how radar works. 369 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:46.759 So they're gonna go make a statement, and every conspiracy 370 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:49.720 theorist on Reddit is going to, you know, err on 371 00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:51.880 the side of this mayor who now thinks he's an 372 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:56.079 expert in the electromagnetic spectrum instead of like people who 373 00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:58.400 actually know how radar works. 374 00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:00.440 You know, it's a I don't know. 375 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:03.079 I would say that we're in the most complicated information 376 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:06.279 space age, you know, the era of the most complicated 377 00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:10.400 information space and human history. You know, we have no 378 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:13.640 trouble looking back on the printing press and acknowledging how 379 00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:19.559 culturally changing the printing press was. The Internet is that, 380 00:20:20.119 --> 00:20:24.480 you know, X times exponentce. You know, it's it's given 381 00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:28.079 everyone a voice and increasingly, you know, with social media 382 00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:29.920 and stuff, it's not even you don't even need to 383 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:33.480 have a built in audience to reach a lot of 384 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:36.319 people with your message. It just needs to be engaging enough, 385 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:40.039 and that can work for better or worse, you know, absolutely, absolutely, yeah. 386 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:44.000 A little bit about the Vegas guy, Matt Livelsburg. I'm 387 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:50.160 probably pronouncing that wrong. He worked both bombers worked at 388 00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:53.599 the same base or bases, or maybe two of them. 389 00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:57.799 They're trying to connect that on social media and like 390 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:02.640 it is an interesting coincidence or circumstance, like I mean, 391 00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:05.960 but the fact is Shamoud Like. 392 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:09.160 I'm sorry, I read his rate name wrong. 393 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:13.920 Shot, sham sham Budd did retire like ten years ago, right, 394 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:16.240 and this guy was still so if they did work 395 00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:19.519 together in the same base, which means like there's probably 396 00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:21.799 thousands of ten or tens of thousands of people on 397 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:22.440 the same base. 398 00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:26.480 Rights, that's a pretty big installation. 399 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:29.720 So like what are the chances like ten years ago, Like, 400 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:32.279 let's get together and do this on January first in 401 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:35.640