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<v Speaker 1>It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boxton's Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, Dan Watkins, thank you very much. That is

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<v Speaker 2>up to the minute score on the Red Sox game.

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<v Speaker 2>I can attest to that, but hey, you know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>not what you call a big offensive night for either

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<v Speaker 2>team in Milwaukee. Now let's get back to the issues

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<v Speaker 2>at hand. I have tried. We spoke on Friday night

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit about this, but the more I've thought

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<v Speaker 2>about this, the more I am perplexed. Normally, I can

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<v Speaker 2>figure the motives of most politicians because I've covered politicians

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<v Speaker 2>for a long time. So if you remember, the Trump

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<v Speaker 2>administration sent a letter to Harvard in April, they've been

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<v Speaker 2>in they were in communications with them and the Harvard

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<v Speaker 2>lawyers who are outside council. They're not Harvard lawyers per se.

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<v Speaker 2>They are lawyers hired by Harvard, including Robert Herr. He

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<v Speaker 2>was the for assistant US attorney who interviewed President Biden

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<v Speaker 2>in October of twenty twenty three. The interview was about

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<v Speaker 2>the papers, in large part about the papers that had

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<v Speaker 2>been found in the president's the former president's garage and

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<v Speaker 2>near his corvette that he was so proud of. And

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<v Speaker 2>if you remember, her was criticized by Democrats because he

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<v Speaker 2>had basically said that Biden didn't understand a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the questions and gave on responsive answers to the deposition

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<v Speaker 2>the questions that were asked by her special council her,

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<v Speaker 2>and he came away with the conclusion that he referred

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<v Speaker 2>to Biden, I think as a confused older person. He

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<v Speaker 2>used pleasant language, but essentially said that there was no

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<v Speaker 2>way that then in twenty twenty three, President Biden would

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<v Speaker 2>be capable of standing any sort of a trial. So

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<v Speaker 2>basically her in effect shut down the investigation of what

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<v Speaker 2>did the president know and when did he know it?

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<v Speaker 2>About the papers that he had kept going back to

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<v Speaker 2>his days in the Senate, And of course that all

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<v Speaker 2>came out of the investigation that the Biden Justice Department

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<v Speaker 2>had conducted, the doubt with the raid of mar A

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<v Speaker 2>Lago and the boxes of documents that President then former

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<v Speaker 2>President Trump allegedly had in his possession that he kept

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<v Speaker 2>that he should not have kept, et cetera. But so so,

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<v Speaker 2>Her is not somebody who is unreasonable. He's sort of

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<v Speaker 2>he's a he's a good lawyer for for Harvard to hire,

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<v Speaker 2>and the other lawyer I do not know William Burke,

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<v Speaker 2>that both lawyers deep deep in Washington law firms. So

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<v Speaker 2>here's here's a little bit of the letter. Here's my

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<v Speaker 2>bottom line. My bottom line is that this letter was

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<v Speaker 2>in effect a letter that said, look, you're right on

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<v Speaker 2>many many items, and we have we have changed our ways.

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<v Speaker 2>We're representing Harvard, but we are telling you, on behalf

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<v Speaker 2>of Harvard, that we have changed our ways and we

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<v Speaker 2>realize that we need to do more. So I want

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<v Speaker 2>to read just some of thesements that were made. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>this obviously did not satisfy the administration, and now they're

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<v Speaker 2>trying to prevent Harvard, trying to knock out their five

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<v Speaker 2>oh one C three status, which would have a real

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<v Speaker 2>impact on Harvard because that would mean people who contribute

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<v Speaker 2>to Harvard would no longer be able to take those

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<v Speaker 2>contributions as tax deductions. And in addition, if Harvard was

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<v Speaker 2>earning any interest of dividends on their fifty three billion

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<v Speaker 2>dollar endowment, they then could potentially lose their tax exempt

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<v Speaker 2>status and be taxed on that. So that would mean

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<v Speaker 2>that the fifty three billion dollar endowment would diminish quickly

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<v Speaker 2>because of two things. One of some contributions would dry up,

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<v Speaker 2>and then taxes would have to be paid on interested dividends.

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<v Speaker 2>And I would suspect that on fifty three billion dollars,

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<v Speaker 2>all of that is invested by Harvard University. So this

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<v Speaker 2>is the letter, and just let me start off with

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<v Speaker 2>a couple of them, just to show you the tone

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<v Speaker 2>of the letter. The tone is not confrontational. The tone

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<v Speaker 2>is concessionary. So this is the letter Harvard. It's addressed

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<v Speaker 2>to the Commissioner of the Federal Acquisition Service to GSA,

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<v Speaker 2>the Acting General Counsel of the US Department of Health

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<v Speaker 2>and Human Services, and the Acting General Counsel of the

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<v Speaker 2>US Department of Education. We represent Harvard University the lawyer's right.

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<v Speaker 2>We're writing in response to your letter to April dated

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<v Speaker 2>April eleventh. This letter was dated April fourteenth, and that

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<v Speaker 2>letter was addressed to Alan Garvin, the Harvard's president, and

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<v Speaker 2>Penny Pritzker, Senior Fellow of the Harvard Corporation, the group

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<v Speaker 2>that actually runs Harvard. Quote, Harvard is committed to fighting

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<v Speaker 2>anti Semitism and other forms of bigotry in its community.

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<v Speaker 2>Anti Semitism and discrimination of any kind not only are

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<v Speaker 2>abhorrent and antithetical to Harvard's value, but also threatening its

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<v Speaker 2>academic mission. Goes on to say, to that end, Harvard

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<v Speaker 2>has made and will continue to make lasting and robust structural,

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<v Speaker 2>policy and programmatic changes to ensure the university is a

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<v Speaker 2>welcoming and supportive learning environment for all students and continues

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<v Speaker 2>to abide in all respects with federal law across its

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<v Speaker 2>academic programs and operations, while fostering open inquiry in a

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<v Speaker 2>pluralistic community, free from intimidation and open to challenging orthodoxies,

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<v Speaker 2>whatever their source. Okay, a little bit of lingo there.

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<v Speaker 2>Over the past fifteen months, Harvard has undertaken substantial policy

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<v Speaker 2>and programmatic measures. Fifteen months takes us back to December

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<v Speaker 2>of twenty twenty three, when the former president of Harvard,

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<v Speaker 2>Claudie Gay, had that disastrous appearance in front of Congress

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<v Speaker 2>which cost her her job. She resigned as president. It

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<v Speaker 2>meaning Harvard has made changes to its campus use policies,

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<v Speaker 2>adopted new accountability procedures, imposed meaningful discipline for those who

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<v Speaker 2>violate university policies, enhanced programs designed to address bias and

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<v Speaker 2>promote ideological diversity and civil discourse. Hired staff to support

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<v Speaker 2>these programs and support students, changed partnerships, dedicated resources to

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<v Speaker 2>combat hate and bias, and enhanced safety and security measures.

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<v Speaker 2>All as a result, Harvard is a very different place

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<v Speaker 2>today from where it was a year ago. That's an

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<v Speaker 2>acknowledgment right there that Harvard all of those things have changed.

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<v Speaker 2>And these are things that the Trump administration could point to,

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<v Speaker 2>in my opinion, with great pride and say, look what

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<v Speaker 2>we've accomplished. Our pressure has accomplished this. The paragraph continues,

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<v Speaker 2>these efforts and additional members measures the university will be

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<v Speaker 2>taking against anti semitism not only are the right thing

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<v Speaker 2>to do, but also are critical to strengthening Harvard's community

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<v Speaker 2>as a place in which everyone can thrive. I'll read

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<v Speaker 2>more of the letter when I get back, But the

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<v Speaker 2>point that I'm trying to make, and I hope the

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<v Speaker 2>point that I'm making clear to you, is Harvard has

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<v Speaker 2>made concessions. Now. I don't understand why the Trump administration

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<v Speaker 2>feels it has to continue to go after Harvard. Colombia behaved,

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<v Speaker 2>and Columbia's professional staff and their faculty and their students

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<v Speaker 2>behaved much worse than Harvard did. In the wake of

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<v Speaker 2>October seventh, there's no question about that. And in for example,

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<v Speaker 2>the entire last academic year, for some reason, President Trump

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<v Speaker 2>is not willing to take the victory. I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>a huge mistake. He has bigger fish to fry right now.

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<v Speaker 2>The economy, the border Ukraine, Russia, the Middle East, the tariffs.

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<v Speaker 2>These are huge issues. The failure which of any of them,

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<v Speaker 2>could do irreparable harm to his legacy and to his administration.

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<v Speaker 2>If you can explain to me what makes Donald Trump tick.

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<v Speaker 2>They have put in fine bold print that they have

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<v Speaker 2>changed policies. And I'm sure that if the Trump administration said,

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<v Speaker 2>please break down for us in a second follow up

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<v Speaker 2>letter the specific changes you've made, I'm sure Harvard would

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<v Speaker 2>be very happy to do that. What is the president

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<v Speaker 2>and his staff thinking? At some point public opinion will

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<v Speaker 2>swing from the president to Harvard, whether he realizes.

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<v Speaker 3>That or not.

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<v Speaker 2>Six one seven, two five four ten already six one seven?

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<v Speaker 2>Is the president incapable of taking a victory lap? I

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<v Speaker 2>don't understand it. Uh? It is. It is certainly dumb politically, UH,

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<v Speaker 2>And I think it's counterproductive. I'd love to get your take.

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<v Speaker 2>We're coming back on Night Side. Maybe you can figure

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<v Speaker 2>it out, I shore Kan.

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<v Speaker 4>It's night Side with Boston's news radio.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, So I want to continue here just for

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<v Speaker 2>a moment, and then we'll go to phone calls. Be fact,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to phone. Let me go to phone calls

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<v Speaker 2>right now. You know the point I'm making up. I'll

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<v Speaker 2>have to re emphasize it here. But you know, Harvard

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<v Speaker 2>has made concessions. This this I just don't get it.

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<v Speaker 2>Let me go to Sam and Medfid see what Sam thinks.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey Sam, welcome to Nightside. How are you tonight, sir?

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<v Speaker 5>So I'm doing great, So hellout you and thanks for

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<v Speaker 5>taking my call.

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<v Speaker 2>You're very welcome. Thanks for thanks for joining us. My

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<v Speaker 2>You know, my belief is that Harvard has actually made concessions,

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<v Speaker 2>has has said this is what we've done. Why would

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<v Speaker 2>the president not turn around and declare victory and say

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<v Speaker 2>him now I'm moving on to other things. What's wrong

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<v Speaker 2>with that strategy?

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<v Speaker 5>Ah? I don't know, something stokes his ego or something.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, why kick the dead house? They already made concessions.

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<v Speaker 5>You got to make the lab focus on Ukraine. Those

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<v Speaker 5>rare minerals deal who work with Putin and focus the

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<v Speaker 5>energy is where you get more buck for the bangrad

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<v Speaker 5>than beating all the good institutions in your own country. Right,

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<v Speaker 5>it does not you got what you wanted, they changed

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<v Speaker 5>and just move on.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, even if even if let us say,

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<v Speaker 2>a year from now, he felt that they did not

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<v Speaker 2>follow through, he can always go back and resurrect his

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<v Speaker 2>war against Harvard. But with he could quote from this

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<v Speaker 2>letter and say Harvard has acknowledged they've changed. They can

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<v Speaker 2>use He could use Harvard's words against them, And if

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<v Speaker 2>a year from now things that aren't going as well

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<v Speaker 2>as he wants them to go, he could say, look,

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<v Speaker 2>I was I was a gentleman, I walked away. I acknowledge,

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<v Speaker 2>but they have not followed through, and now we're really

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<v Speaker 2>going after I don't it's mystifying to me. I guess,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 5>Maybe maybe Harvard in the past never called him for

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<v Speaker 5>some graduation ceremonies or something, so that must have stalked

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<v Speaker 5>to the ego. But he should let it go. He

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<v Speaker 5>should take the high road.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess. Yeah, Uh, are you a Trump supporter or no?

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<v Speaker 5>You know, I think I'm told in the past, then

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<v Speaker 5>I'm a big believer for whosoever is doing the right

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<v Speaker 5>thing for the country.

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<v Speaker 2>I believe more in Yeah.

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<v Speaker 5>I believe more in actions than words. Everything else is

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<v Speaker 5>words are cheap.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I'm with you on that. But my question, I

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<v Speaker 2>guess what my question is.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm independent dependent.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So what I'm saying is, you're not somebody. There

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<v Speaker 2>are a lot of people who love him and he

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<v Speaker 2>can do no wrong, and then there are people who

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<v Speaker 2>don't like him and he can do no right. But

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<v Speaker 2>if you're an independent.

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<v Speaker 5>Good He's done good things about immigration. I'll have to

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<v Speaker 5>give him that. But I mean everybody has good in that.

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<v Speaker 5>Some things are good, but some things are not good invited.

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<v Speaker 2>I think he's making a mistake. I think he's spending

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<v Speaker 2>political capital here that he doesn't have to spend on

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<v Speaker 2>a fight that he could easily claim. Hey, I'm right,

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<v Speaker 2>they can. They made concessions, Sam, Thank you much. I

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<v Speaker 2>appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 5>Thank you very much, thank you. Thanks, thanks for taking

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<v Speaker 5>me pleasure talking to all.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, let me go to Ed in Worcester. See what

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<v Speaker 2>he thinks. I think Ed is kind of favorably inclined

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<v Speaker 2>generally to Trump. I hope I haven't mischaracterized you, Ed.

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<v Speaker 3>No, no, no, I'm I'm completely in favor of this.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think it's an unwise political move at all,

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<v Speaker 3>not not.

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<v Speaker 4>For his base.

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<v Speaker 3>I think his base is very enthusiastic about it.

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<v Speaker 2>So's his basis thirty eight right, you got to get

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<v Speaker 2>more than your base in twenty twenty six to hold

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<v Speaker 2>the House or increase your your membership in the House.

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<v Speaker 2>You heard what I read in the letter that was

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<v Speaker 2>written that was written to him on August fourteenth. Why

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<v Speaker 2>would he not take those words and say, hey, I've won.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, two things, don't. I don't think they're sincere. I

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<v Speaker 3>don't believe that they're sincere about making any meaningful concessions.

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<v Speaker 3>And secondly, you know, he's he's only got a short

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<v Speaker 3>time in office, and he's got a even shorter time

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<v Speaker 3>till the midterm elections. If he wants to do important things,

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<v Speaker 3>he has to frontload them. And I think he knows

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<v Speaker 3>that and that's why he's giving everything, especially this such

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<v Speaker 3>a priority. I mean, I just don't. I don't take

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<v Speaker 3>these people at their word, don't. I don't trust them

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<v Speaker 3>anymore than I would trust Latimer. There's another that's something

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<v Speaker 3>I disagree with Trump on. I wish you wouldn't trust

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<v Speaker 3>that guy.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, look, uh what, Look, he's got so much on

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<v Speaker 2>his plate head, you know, nothing.

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<v Speaker 3>More important than this, nothing more important than this?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh really okay? I would argue, I would argue that

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<v Speaker 2>dealing with Iran and the whole Middle East, a boiling

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<v Speaker 2>pot of whatever, is pretty important. I would argue that

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<v Speaker 2>the tariff, the fights on the fight on tariffs, as

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<v Speaker 2>it might impact for better or worse than national economy.

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<v Speaker 2>I think he's he's done well on the border, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think that from his perspective, he pretty much can say, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>I closed, I closed the border as I promised I would.

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<v Speaker 2>But I don't know that getting Harvard to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he can't micromanage Harvard. He can't micromanage any of these places.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think that the Supreme Court as currently constituted

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<v Speaker 2>is going to give him the right to tell Harvard

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<v Speaker 2>whether or not they can or any of any college

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<v Speaker 2>in America whether or not they can admit foreign students.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think the Court as currently composed will support

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<v Speaker 2>him on that.

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<v Speaker 3>I think they'll support him that he can cut off

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<v Speaker 3>their funding, and I certainly think the Republican majorities in

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<v Speaker 3>Congress want to cut off their funding, but they can

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<v Speaker 3>do what they want, but they can't do what they

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<v Speaker 3>want with taxpayer money and with a tax exemption. And

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<v Speaker 3>I think he should go beyond that.

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<v Speaker 2>I think, how do you how do you remove the

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<v Speaker 2>tax exem status of any company that has the tax

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<v Speaker 2>exempt status? You know as well as I do. You're

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<v Speaker 2>a lawyer. The concept of the burden of proof is

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<v Speaker 2>upon him in this situation, or upon the administration to

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<v Speaker 2>remove tax exem status. If they're going to focus on

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<v Speaker 2>Harvard and Columbia, it would be an easier task if

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<v Speaker 2>they wanted to get rid of tach, get rid of

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<v Speaker 2>five or once three across the board, but that would

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<v Speaker 2>have to be done by Congress.

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<v Speaker 4>And that's I think they should.

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<v Speaker 3>I think I said that before on your show. I

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<v Speaker 3>think they should.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, so, okay, you think that's a political winner

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty eight.

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<v Speaker 3>If you don't win the culture or nothing else matters. Well,

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<v Speaker 3>if you don't win the culture, nothing else matters.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I hear you. I guess you and I are

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<v Speaker 2>going to see it fundamentally differently. I look at this

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<v Speaker 2>letter and I think to myself, there is an intermediate

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<v Speaker 2>victory that he could declare. He could say these are

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<v Speaker 2>the words that the Harvard lawyers have written to my administration.

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<v Speaker 2>I accept the words as written. I take them at

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<v Speaker 2>their word. I assume they will follow through on their words.

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<v Speaker 2>We will check back in a year to see if

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<v Speaker 2>they're followed through.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, right, yours? I want to I want to be

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<v Speaker 3>the first. I want to be the first one to

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<v Speaker 3>announce on me or something I've been saying for I

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<v Speaker 3>don't think we're moving their tax exact is enough. I

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<v Speaker 3>would go into these colleges and universities. I would nationalize them.

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<v Speaker 3>I would confiscate all their property.

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<v Speaker 2>That's that's good.

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<v Speaker 3>That's got you know?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, uh, that you know. I guess I'm flabbergasted

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<v Speaker 2>by that. By what right? By what right? Now? We

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<v Speaker 2>are now we are talking about state fascism for real.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, any any any government on earth has the right

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<v Speaker 3>to nationalize property if it gives compensation.

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<v Speaker 2>Wait a second, Wait a second. You you got what

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<v Speaker 2>the government might have a right to do doesn't mean

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<v Speaker 2>it's the right thing to do.

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<v Speaker 3>Ed you're serious, I said earlier, if you don't win

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<v Speaker 3>the culture, nothing else matters.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't think you win the culture by overreacting,

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<v Speaker 2>and and and and and putting arm beans on people

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<v Speaker 2>and putting them in funny little uniforms. I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>that America or maybe five percent of the country would

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<v Speaker 2>support that, but but that would be the that would

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<v Speaker 2>be the extent of it. We have reached a fundamental disagreement,

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<v Speaker 2>my friend. As always, thank you for your call. Thank

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<v Speaker 2>you very much. Okay, I said that I thought that

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<v Speaker 2>Ed was supporting I. And by the way, Ed is

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<v Speaker 2>very intelligent, lawyer out of Worcester, very intelligent. But I

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<v Speaker 2>think that is way over at the top, way over

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<v Speaker 2>the top. Back on Night's Side, right after the news.

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<v Speaker 2>If that doesn't light it up, I don't know what will.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll be back on Nightside right after this.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Nightside, Boston's news radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Well. I think Ed was an interesting caller. I think

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<v Speaker 2>le we go to Donna in Northborough. Hey, Donna, welcome

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<v Speaker 2>next on Nightside.

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<v Speaker 6>Hey Dan, happy to be here. How are you doing?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm doing just great? Where where do you stand on

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<v Speaker 2>this great debate? I I just sometimes you gotta you gotta,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, when you go to Las Vegas and you've won,

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes you take the money and you walk away.

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<v Speaker 6>Well sometimes, but I believe it's the country at stake

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<v Speaker 6>at this point, so you might need to let that

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<v Speaker 6>ride a little bit. I have been fascinated by what

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<v Speaker 6>President Trump is doing. I'm an independent I go where

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<v Speaker 6>I think the country will do best. Okay, and and

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<v Speaker 6>I thought Trump was the right choice. I think most

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<v Speaker 6>people did with So yeah, that's more than more than fifty.

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<v Speaker 6>So I'm thinking the wax on wax off. You know,

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<v Speaker 6>like in the beginning of the Karate Kid, nobody knew

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<v Speaker 6>why he was doing wax on wax off, but when

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<v Speaker 6>it came, when it counted, then you found out. So

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<v Speaker 6>I'm seeing that that Trump is uh revealing himself in layers.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I don't get the karate kid metaphor, but that's

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<v Speaker 2>our analogy. But I'm not a karate kid guy. But

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<v Speaker 2>that's well.

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<v Speaker 6>I think that we don't know what he's doing. I

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<v Speaker 6>don't think anybody but him and the people that he

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<v Speaker 6>has doing this are aware of, you know, where where

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<v Speaker 6>the bar is and if he's.

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<v Speaker 2>Trying to test, if he's trying if what your argument

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<v Speaker 2>is that he's trying to test the powers of the presidency.

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<v Speaker 6>No, no, no, what my argument is is that I

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<v Speaker 6>don't know, and you don't know where he's going with this,

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<v Speaker 6>Where he's going with this, well, right.

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<v Speaker 2>But I'm saying right, but but I think that ultimately

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking about the powers of the presidency. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think the president has the power to prevent

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<v Speaker 2>universities from uh enrolling students foreign students. I don't see.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't see where that power exists anywhere.

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<v Speaker 6>In my opinion, I don't think that's his goal. I

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<v Speaker 6>don't think that's his goal at all. I think that

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<v Speaker 6>he's using that as a chip to gain what he

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<v Speaker 6>ultimately wants, which is fairness. You know, you're looking at

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<v Speaker 6>fairness and sports, and women's sports in particular. You're looking

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<v Speaker 6>at fairness with regard to race, cultures, ethnicity, sexuality. All

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<v Speaker 6>of that fairness is in question, you know, in different areas.

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<v Speaker 2>And guess what in many of those areas, I might

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<v Speaker 2>agree with where I think he's going. But I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think it's fair to try to tell Harvard, as a

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<v Speaker 2>university that's been around since sixteen thirty six and a

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<v Speaker 2>fairly successful, one private university, that they can or cannot

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<v Speaker 2>accept students who happen to be from outside the United States.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that is way beyond any power that the

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<v Speaker 2>founders imagine. I agree the president would have, so I

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<v Speaker 2>just and I just.

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<v Speaker 6>I agree with you, But I honestly don't think that's

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<v Speaker 6>where he's trying to go. I think he's just using

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<v Speaker 6>that as a bargaining chip. Look at the letter from her,

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<v Speaker 6>Look at he's gotten somewhere. And I agree with you.

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<v Speaker 6>In some cases, maybe that would be, you know, you

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<v Speaker 6>take all the chips off the table because you're winning.

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<v Speaker 6>But I don't know where he's going with it.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I just I guess I don't know where I want. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know where he's going either, But I will

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<v Speaker 2>tell you this. I think I think the strategy that

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<v Speaker 2>he's currently employee employing is going to be dangerous to

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<v Speaker 2>his u to his presidency, and dangerous to him electing

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<v Speaker 2>more Republicans in twenty twenty six. That's the point I

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<v Speaker 2>was trying to make that your're sometimes in politics. Politics

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<v Speaker 2>is the art of compromise, and as smart politician will say, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to get everything I want, but I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to get something, and I do have something in

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<v Speaker 2>this letter from her, And he could he could go

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<v Speaker 2>on and say, look, we're making progress admitted. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>he's not claiming her is admitting, and the other lawyer's admitting.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's if he was smart and not a maglomaniac,

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<v Speaker 2>because he's beginning to me looking like a meglomaniac that

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<v Speaker 2>he somehow wants to run the admissions office at Harvard.

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<v Speaker 5>Does huh?

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<v Speaker 6>I don't think he does. I really don't think he does.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'll tell you, well, when you figure out where

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<v Speaker 2>he's going, I want you to call me back, because

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<v Speaker 2>I think you're going to figure it out before me.

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<v Speaker 4>Together.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks, don appreciate you call.

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<v Speaker 5>Have a good one, all right, Take care.

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<v Speaker 2>No one knows Harvard University better than my caller, Harvey Silver.

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<v Speaker 2>Gleat Harvey, if you can bring some clarity to this situation.

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<v Speaker 2>I know you you were not a fan of Donald Trump,

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<v Speaker 2>but just from a strategic point of view, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>understand the strategy.

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<v Speaker 4>I think I do, Dan, Okay, what is it? He

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<v Speaker 4>wants to subject gate the richest, the most powerful, the

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<v Speaker 4>oldest university in the nation because it refuses to heal

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<v Speaker 4>to his commands. Colombia folded like a cheap suit.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think Columbia. I think Columbia had a lot

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<v Speaker 2>to be responsible for it. To be honest with you,

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<v Speaker 2>I think Columbia is a different situation than Harvard, to

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<v Speaker 2>be honest with you.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I agree with that.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that I think that they're they're what

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<v Speaker 2>they allowed to happen on their campus, the Jewish students

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<v Speaker 2>and what they allowed to happen on their campus. And

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<v Speaker 2>some of the comments that were made there was that

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<v Speaker 2>one professor from from Columbia who was quoted on camera.

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<v Speaker 2>He was saying that that October seventh exhilarated him.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, I agree with I agree with all of that, Okay,

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<v Speaker 4>but Harvard has decided to draw the line. And what Trump,

421
00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:24.119
<v Speaker 4>what's bothering Trump is not anti Semitism. I don't think

422
00:26:24.119 --> 00:26:28.279
<v Speaker 4>he gives a damn about yous about anti semitism.

423
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Fair enough, Okay, I'll accept that for that. I'll accept

424
00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:32.519
<v Speaker 2>that for the that argument go ahead.

425
00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:38.079
<v Speaker 4>What bothers him is that Harbor has stood up to him.

426
00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:44.559
<v Speaker 4>Alan Garber the provost, and Jehan Manning the provosts, and

427
00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:48.880
<v Speaker 4>Alan Garber the president have said no. And that is

428
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:50.680
<v Speaker 4>what bugs him the most.

429
00:26:50.839 --> 00:26:53.359
<v Speaker 2>Okay, you heard me. Read that last paragraph, and you're

430
00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:55.720
<v Speaker 2>more familiar with the Garber letter because you talked You

431
00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:59.359
<v Speaker 2>talked to Garber, and I don't yes that that last

432
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:02.720
<v Speaker 2>that para in which they said, over the last fifteen months,

433
00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:05.279
<v Speaker 2>Harvard's done this, They've done this, They've done this, they

434
00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:07.680
<v Speaker 2>had there was a litany of things that they have done.

435
00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:10.960
<v Speaker 2>If you were Donald Trump's lawyer and you've defended people,

436
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:14.559
<v Speaker 2>you know who you weren't necessarily fond of, let me

437
00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:17.519
<v Speaker 2>put it like that, as any good lawyer would what

438
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:19.799
<v Speaker 2>advice would you give him? Would you tell him at

439
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:21.680
<v Speaker 2>this point? Would you tell him what I'm what I

440
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:24.440
<v Speaker 2>would say to him. Look, you have statements from Harvard

441
00:27:24.440 --> 00:27:30.440
<v Speaker 2>here which support that support your position. Take the victory,

442
00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:32.640
<v Speaker 2>say that you'll check back a year from now, but

443
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:35.039
<v Speaker 2>walk away from it from now. Would you would you

444
00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:37.640
<v Speaker 2>not advise your client if it were if it were

445
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:38.759
<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump to do that?

446
00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:42.960
<v Speaker 4>Of course I would. But that isn't what Donald Trump wants.

447
00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:47.079
<v Speaker 4>Fair Enough, he doesn't care about any of these issues.

448
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:49.079
<v Speaker 4>He cares about subjugation.

449
00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:52.599
<v Speaker 2>He at at the end of the day, as his lawyer,

450
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:54.960
<v Speaker 2>don't you have to say to him you're going to

451
00:27:55.079 --> 00:28:00.359
<v Speaker 2>lose on this. You you might you might win in

452
00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:05.039
<v Speaker 2>on uh some issue here or there. But on most

453
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:07.519
<v Speaker 2>of these issues, you're going to lose. You're not going

454
00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:09.519
<v Speaker 2>to be able to take away their five or one

455
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:10.519
<v Speaker 2>C three status.

456
00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:15.680
<v Speaker 4>Dan, Yeah, what makes you think he's going to obey

457
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:16.559
<v Speaker 4>a court order?

458
00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:21.480
<v Speaker 2>I think it's I think it's called I think it's

459
00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:23.799
<v Speaker 2>called the Justice Department. I think it's called the US

460
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:27.279
<v Speaker 2>Supreme Court. I think it's called, if necessary, the US Military.

461
00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:31.200
<v Speaker 2>I think that he would be insane if if if,

462
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:36.039
<v Speaker 2>I mean absolutely certifiably insane, if we ever got to

463
00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:39.119
<v Speaker 2>the point that he was going to defy a court order,

464
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:40.960
<v Speaker 2>which would be then backed.

465
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:46.319
<v Speaker 4>Nobody, nobody ever accused Donald Trump of being sane. Let

466
00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:47.480
<v Speaker 4>me point something out.

467
00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:49.960
<v Speaker 2>I think he's more sane than people realize. To be

468
00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:50.480
<v Speaker 2>honest with.

469
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:53.160
<v Speaker 4>You, let me let me, let me let me point

470
00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:57.319
<v Speaker 4>something out. You talked about the law firm that represents Harvard.

471
00:28:58.200 --> 00:29:00.680
<v Speaker 4>Is that the firm of Wilma Hale Washington.

472
00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:03.359
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, no, no, no. Wilmahale does not. And

473
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:05.279
<v Speaker 2>you know as well as I do, that will Mahale

474
00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:08.200
<v Speaker 2>made some concessions, et cetera. No, these these are two

475
00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:14.359
<v Speaker 2>individual lawyers, William Burke with un Emmanuel your car and Sullivan,

476
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:17.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm unfamiliar with that firm. And then Robert Hurt, who

477
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:20.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm very familiar with King and Spalding, and he was

478
00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:25.240
<v Speaker 2>the guy that did the depositions with that deposition with

479
00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:27.480
<v Speaker 2>President Biden in October twenty twenty three.

480
00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:34.160
<v Speaker 4>I'm very samated with Quinn Emmanuel, a partner who recently retired.

481
00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:37.200
<v Speaker 4>Captain Sullibum was dean of the Harvard Law School for

482
00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:37.920
<v Speaker 4>many years.

483
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:43.000
<v Speaker 2>Yes, sure, her name's on the mastead YEP. Okay, so well,

484
00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:47.240
<v Speaker 2>I just look, I think that if you know, if

485
00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:52.079
<v Speaker 2>people really believe that, I find it impossible to think

486
00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:58.559
<v Speaker 2>that even if he has hired and is now employing

487
00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:05.079
<v Speaker 2>some bad people, that's he's smart enough to know. I

488
00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:09.960
<v Speaker 2>just think it's impossible to think that he would defy

489
00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:12.720
<v Speaker 2>a US Supreme Court order. That's all. That's all. I

490
00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:13.319
<v Speaker 2>think that.

491
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:18.160
<v Speaker 4>Nobody ever accused him of being smart. He's wiley.

492
00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:21.880
<v Speaker 2>He's wiley. He's also been able to come back and

493
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:25.559
<v Speaker 2>done something that no other president other than Grover Cleveland

494
00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:29.119
<v Speaker 2>had done to be able to come back. And I

495
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:31.920
<v Speaker 2>never thought that he would be re elected after I

496
00:30:31.960 --> 00:30:34.279
<v Speaker 2>never thought he'd be elected in twenty sixteen, and I've

497
00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:38.759
<v Speaker 2>underestimated Donald Trump many times. Okay, I will admit to that,

498
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:44.319
<v Speaker 2>and I will acknowledge that, but I mean, yeah, okay,

499
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:46.920
<v Speaker 2>we'll see.

500
00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:52.319
<v Speaker 4>It. Say have harbored cry uncle. He wants to win

501
00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:53.119
<v Speaker 4>this battle.

502
00:30:54.119 --> 00:30:57.000
<v Speaker 2>I think that cried uncle already. And I think that

503
00:30:57.079 --> 00:31:00.359
<v Speaker 2>if he was smart, he would he would accept win

504
00:31:01.480 --> 00:31:05.240
<v Speaker 2>and then say I will continue to monitor them. And

505
00:31:05.720 --> 00:31:08.160
<v Speaker 2>he's got other things on his plate right now, which

506
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:11.720
<v Speaker 2>in my opinion, how much more important taris the economy,

507
00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:19.039
<v Speaker 2>the Middle East, Russia, Ukraine whatever. Anyway, Harvey as always,

508
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:21.599
<v Speaker 2>thank you for your wisdom, Thank you for your wisdom

509
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:25.359
<v Speaker 2>and your and your perspective. It's it's well needed. Thank you.

510
00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:29.519
<v Speaker 2>On a break, Gotta get to a break. Coming right

511
00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:30.480
<v Speaker 2>back on Nightside.

512
00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:36.440
<v Speaker 5>You're on night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.

513
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:38.799
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna go next to Matt and Franklin. Matt, you

514
00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:40.119
<v Speaker 2>were next to Nightside. Welcome.

515
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:41.920
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

516
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:45.039
<v Speaker 1>I'm a tough time trying to figure out what Trump's doing.

517
00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:49.240
<v Speaker 1>It seems like he's tearing the DOJ into his like

518
00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:53.480
<v Speaker 1>frivolous lawsuit department, and he's kind of like all over

519
00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:55.720
<v Speaker 1>the map on like what he is trying to accomplish.

520
00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:59.559
<v Speaker 1>In his second term, and uh, it's like he's not

521
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:04.400
<v Speaker 1>gonna win. And my question for you is, like, could

522
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:07.519
<v Speaker 1>some of not necessarily trauma because some of his cabin

523
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:11.799
<v Speaker 1>people get sued civilly from Harvard after this all over.

524
00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:16.880
<v Speaker 2>No. No, most people who are UH in official public

525
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:21.880
<v Speaker 2>offices either immune from any sort of a civil lawsuit

526
00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:25.640
<v Speaker 2>or they are they're indentified. I mean, if there was

527
00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:31.640
<v Speaker 2>a a cabinet official who went out and and and

528
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:34.240
<v Speaker 2>held up a bank tonight, could he be he or

529
00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:37.599
<v Speaker 2>she be prosecuted, of course. But if in the course

530
00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:44.400
<v Speaker 2>of their uh actions as as a public official, you know,

531
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:48.759
<v Speaker 2>took an action that they they might lose that action

532
00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:51.599
<v Speaker 2>in court, but that they cannot They're not going to

533
00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:53.599
<v Speaker 2>be sued then in a civil fashion. No.

534
00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:57.400
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, like breaking the law with some of these things

535
00:32:57.440 --> 00:32:59.640
<v Speaker 1>they're doing.

536
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:04.960
<v Speaker 2>No, if you talk about breaking the law, Uh, that's

537
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:10.960
<v Speaker 2>that's a criminal statute. Okay. But these are primarily policy questions.

538
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:14.880
<v Speaker 2>Now Trump can say, well, Harvard hasn't gone far enough.

539
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:18.720
<v Speaker 2>That's a policy question, okay, So he's fine there. Or

540
00:33:18.759 --> 00:33:21.480
<v Speaker 2>if someone if he directs someone in his in his

541
00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:25.839
<v Speaker 2>administration to file a lawsuit or to to file a

542
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:28.839
<v Speaker 2>motion for this or for that. That's he's trying to

543
00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:32.680
<v Speaker 2>impose policies, so he would be that's not a problem.

544
00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:37.559
<v Speaker 2>But but politically there comes a point in time where

545
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:40.799
<v Speaker 2>as you said, he's doing things that might appear to

546
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:45.200
<v Speaker 2>be frivolous. Look, you've got tariffs, You've got Russia Ukraine,

547
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:49.960
<v Speaker 2>you have a big, beautiful tax bill that is in

548
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:54.519
<v Speaker 2>front of the Senate, which maybe is really a lynchpin

549
00:33:54.680 --> 00:33:59.759
<v Speaker 2>of his administration. You have all of these important battles,

550
00:33:59.799 --> 00:34:02.799
<v Speaker 2>not to mention the border, uh, as well as his

551
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:05.519
<v Speaker 2>ability to send people out of the country who are

552
00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:09.320
<v Speaker 2>here for no good reason, are here to cause problems,

553
00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:11.639
<v Speaker 2>and in many cases to send people out of the

554
00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:16.280
<v Speaker 2>country who have been convicted of criminal behavior. Those are important.

555
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:18.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I agree on that's up, but it

556
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:21.079
<v Speaker 1>seems like it's all right, I'm gonna get rid of

557
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:24.039
<v Speaker 1>the Department of Education, but while I'm doing that, I'm

558
00:34:24.039 --> 00:34:26.440
<v Speaker 1>gonna have a Department of Education, get rid of Harvard

559
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:28.920
<v Speaker 1>and then oh, I'm going to get rid of the

560
00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:30.480
<v Speaker 1>I R S, but I want the I R S

561
00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:32.920
<v Speaker 1>at the same time to uh get rid of the

562
00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:36.559
<v Speaker 1>tax um status. And then while I'm doing this, he's.

563
00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:40.719
<v Speaker 2>He's not going to get rid of the I R S.

564
00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:43.239
<v Speaker 2>And I also don't think that he can. I don't

565
00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:46.000
<v Speaker 2>think he can say to Harvard. You know, if Harvard,

566
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:49.199
<v Speaker 2>for example, tomorrow said we have decided we are no

567
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:53.800
<v Speaker 2>longer accepting students of a certain racial category uh to

568
00:34:53.800 --> 00:34:56.079
<v Speaker 2>to come to our school because we hate people who

569
00:34:56.119 --> 00:34:59.519
<v Speaker 2>are of this racial category, then that is when he

570
00:34:59.559 --> 00:35:03.039
<v Speaker 2>could pu vely probably withdraw the five A one seed

571
00:35:03.079 --> 00:35:07.320
<v Speaker 2>free status. But that's not what Harvad's doing. Harvard might

572
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:10.960
<v Speaker 2>be admitting, in Donald Trump's opinion and in my opinion,

573
00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:14.719
<v Speaker 2>too many students from overseas. But but that's a decision.

574
00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:18.199
<v Speaker 2>That's Harved's decision, not my decision, not Donald Trump's decision,

575
00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:20.840
<v Speaker 2>not your decision. That's the that's the point I'm trying

576
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:21.159
<v Speaker 2>to make.

577
00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:23.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I just think he is going to have a

578
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:26.559
<v Speaker 1>miserable time with the midterms, and it's gonna be like, well,

579
00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:28.559
<v Speaker 1>like you're going to just stick around.

580
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:32.159
<v Speaker 2>Truly, he'll be truly a lame dock. He's going to

581
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:34.960
<v Speaker 2>be a lame duck president after the midterms because he

582
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:37.719
<v Speaker 2>won't be able to run for a third term despite

583
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:42.000
<v Speaker 2>his musings. No Supreme Court is going to say Oh, yeah,

584
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:44.880
<v Speaker 2>we'll overturn. We'll allow you to run for a third term.

585
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:47.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's I've always looked at that as he's

586
00:35:48.039 --> 00:35:52.280
<v Speaker 2>trolling people. He's in their head, rant free. But to

587
00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:55.599
<v Speaker 2>pursue Harvard after Harvard has made what I would construe

588
00:35:55.599 --> 00:35:59.480
<v Speaker 2>with concessions. This is boilerplate language that he could use

589
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:02.719
<v Speaker 2>to say, Look, Harvard did bend. I forced Harvard to bend.

590
00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:05.280
<v Speaker 2>It was a great victory for the Trump administration. And

591
00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:07.079
<v Speaker 2>now we're going to make sure that they continue with

592
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:10.960
<v Speaker 2>these policies the promises that made. Let's move on. That

593
00:36:11.079 --> 00:36:13.199
<v Speaker 2>would be the smart thing to do, in my opinion,

594
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:17.559
<v Speaker 2>but obviously I'm not in the majority at this point.

595
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:19.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I just think it's gonna drag on for like

596
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.159
<v Speaker 1>the whole year, and then well we're gonna get what

597
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:24.400
<v Speaker 1>We're gonna get closer and closer to the mid terms

598
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:27.000
<v Speaker 1>without accomplishing anything, and then he will pay.

599
00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:29.639
<v Speaker 2>A price and the Republicans will pay a price. Thank you, Matt,

600
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:32.199
<v Speaker 2>appreciate your call. Here comes the Ted. We're gonna stay

601
00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:34.360
<v Speaker 2>with it. The only line we have one line at

602
00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:36.480
<v Speaker 2>six months, seven, two, five, four to ten thirty, and

603
00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:38.840
<v Speaker 2>we have one line at six months, seven, nine, three, one,

604
00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:41.360
<v Speaker 2>ten thirty conversation has been a little longer than I

605
00:36:41.400 --> 00:36:43.360
<v Speaker 2>want them to be. We will pick up the pace

606
00:36:43.719 --> 00:36:47.480
<v Speaker 2>starting with Tom, Lou and Jim, and we have room

607
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:48.800
<v Speaker 2>for you coming back on Nightside.