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<v Speaker 1>All right, there was some conversation about stephen wardel Curry

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<v Speaker 1>giving it a go tonight.

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<v Speaker 2>He will not do that.

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<v Speaker 1>He has been cleared to participate in some encore drills.

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<v Speaker 1>But you will miss the game tonight as the Warriors

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<v Speaker 1>are trying to stave off elimination. So now as official,

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<v Speaker 1>we got Nick Celtics at your early game. But let's

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<v Speaker 1>go to Chicago where we find ourselves one of our favorites.

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah Todd from the Deseret News, Sarah, Happy Wednesday.

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<v Speaker 2>How are you.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm doing great. I'm here at the NBA Combine. So

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<v Speaker 3>any apologies if they're buzzes and normal kind of arena

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<v Speaker 3>sounds in the background.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I actually kind of like it.

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<v Speaker 1>When I hear whistles and sneakers sneaking on the floor,

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<v Speaker 1>it makes it makes me miss basketball. So I think

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<v Speaker 1>we'll take the background ambient noise. So, Sarah, you were

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<v Speaker 1>in the room when it was revealed the Jazz would

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<v Speaker 1>fall to five. Obviously, folks around here are not too thrilled.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's just talk about your experience big picture. What was

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<v Speaker 1>it like to kind of be there and experience everything.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean I've been in that room multiple times.

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<v Speaker 3>At this point, and that was certainly the most unique

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<v Speaker 3>experiencing in there. You know, it's the opposite of how

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<v Speaker 3>the lottery is revealed on television, right where you start

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<v Speaker 3>with fifteen and you end at one, and when you're

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<v Speaker 3>in the room, number one is the first four balls drawn.

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<v Speaker 3>So it happened very very quickly, and to say that

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<v Speaker 3>there was nobody in the room that expected it to

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<v Speaker 3>be Dallas would be an understatement. It was shocking, and

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<v Speaker 3>I mean the looks that went around from NBA staff

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<v Speaker 3>and legal and all of the team representatives and all

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<v Speaker 3>of the media. I mean there were audible gaps and

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<v Speaker 3>people saying, oh my god. And then very very quickly,

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<v Speaker 3>like within forty seconds after that, the second pick of

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<v Speaker 3>the San Antonio and it was the same reaction. I've

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<v Speaker 3>just just stunned. Everybody in the room, was Donne.

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<v Speaker 1>You did a really good job of painting a picture

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<v Speaker 1>for the d News And for our listeners who have

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<v Speaker 1>not read that, I would encourage you to go to

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah's Twitter profile and click on the links. So for

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<v Speaker 1>our listeners that haven't read your piece, I want you

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<v Speaker 1>to tell us when Justin Zanik realized the Jazz fate

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<v Speaker 1>and what his reaction was that you witnessed.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, I'm I mean I was sitting maybe five six

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<v Speaker 3>feet away from Justin and he's sitting next to Washington

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<v Speaker 3>Wizards general manager Will Dawkins. They both have, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>an equal percent chance shot at the number one pick,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, before the pick is made or before

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<v Speaker 3>the balls are drawn, you know, there's nervous, nervous toe

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<v Speaker 3>tapping and uh, you know, kind of writing down on

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<v Speaker 3>pieces of paper in front of you, just to have

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<v Speaker 3>something to do with your hands. And Justin, I'm you know,

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<v Speaker 3>all of the team representatives, all of the reporters, everbody

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<v Speaker 3>in the room has a list of all of the

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<v Speaker 3>number combinations possible and the teams that they're as fined too,

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<v Speaker 3>so kind of before everything starts, you kind of get

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<v Speaker 3>a sense of what you're looking for. You know, even

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<v Speaker 3>though they're going to call it out and announce it,

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<v Speaker 3>you want to make sure to follow along if you can.

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<v Speaker 3>And what was obvious was number one. All of the

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<v Speaker 3>Jazz's combinations had the number one, so a number one

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<v Speaker 3>had to be drawn. Also, what was obvious was that

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<v Speaker 3>the Jazz, in their number combinations, they could have handled

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<v Speaker 3>two double digit numbers, three double digit numbers. It wouldn't

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<v Speaker 3>have been a jazz number. So another thing to kind

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<v Speaker 3>of keep in mind when you're watching the balls game drawn.

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<v Speaker 3>First number comes up, it's double digits. That's fine. Second

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<v Speaker 3>number comes up, it's a double digit number, also fine.

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<v Speaker 3>And then the third one comes up and it's another

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<v Speaker 3>double digit number, and Justin put his pin down and

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<v Speaker 3>just kind of knew that it was gone. It was

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<v Speaker 3>over before even the fourth ball was drawn. And when

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<v Speaker 3>it was announced Dallas, him and Will Dawkins looked at

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<v Speaker 3>each other, looked back down at the papers in front

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<v Speaker 3>of them, and looked at each other. They just they

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<v Speaker 3>didn't know what to do other than kind of stare

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<v Speaker 3>at each other and understand how drastically things were about

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<v Speaker 3>to change. And you know, we're talking about five minutes

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<v Speaker 3>before that, Justin Zannik telling me about, you know, the

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<v Speaker 3>lucky bracelet that he has on but he's never taken off,

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<v Speaker 3>and he's wearing his Utah jazz box. And then five

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<v Speaker 3>minutes after you have people shaking his hand and looking

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<v Speaker 3>at him like his dog died. And so the just

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<v Speaker 3>the shift in the room was immense.

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<v Speaker 1>So Sarah, of course, you know It's an annual ride

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<v Speaker 1>of passage in the world of pro basketball. When a

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<v Speaker 1>fan base is upset that their team didn't get the

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<v Speaker 1>number one overall pick or the number two overall pick,

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<v Speaker 1>to then ques uestion in this process and discuss whether

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<v Speaker 1>or not it's legitimate, whether or not it's done with integrity,

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<v Speaker 1>and whether or not the fix is in. No Mavericks

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<v Speaker 1>fans are complaining about the lottery. No Spurs fans, well,

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<v Speaker 1>no Spurs fans should ever complain about the lottery, Let's

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<v Speaker 1>be very clear about that. But fans of the Utah Jazz,

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<v Speaker 1>fans of the New Orleans Pelicans, fans of the well,

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<v Speaker 1>the Pelicans don't have any beef either.

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<v Speaker 2>But now I'm getting lost in the weeds.

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<v Speaker 1>Washington, Charlotte, Portland, the fan bases of teams that move

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<v Speaker 1>down with Cooper flag available at the top are all

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<v Speaker 1>crying foul. I find it intellectually embarrassing that every time

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<v Speaker 1>your candidate doesn't win an election you cry that it's rigged,

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<v Speaker 1>or every time your team doesn't win a lottery, you

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<v Speaker 1>cry that it's rigged.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's kind of where we're at.

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<v Speaker 1>But since you saw the process and have seen the process.

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<v Speaker 1>I will simply ask you, is this a fair way

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<v Speaker 1>to do this? Or is there anything that does not

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<v Speaker 1>smell right in your opinion?

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<v Speaker 3>Two different questions. Right is it fair? It depends on

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<v Speaker 3>how we define fair. Right is it fair because the

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<v Speaker 3>system and all the rules and the machinations of it

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<v Speaker 3>are set up before you go in and you know

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<v Speaker 3>what you're signing up for, then yeah, that's fair. Is

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<v Speaker 3>it fair that the worst teams in the league only

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<v Speaker 3>get a fourteen percent chance? Well that was that was

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<v Speaker 3>the goal of the league, right, Like, this is Adam

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<v Speaker 3>Silver's goal. And you know they they talked about this

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<v Speaker 3>in twenty seventeen, they put it into action in twenty nineteen.

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<v Speaker 3>They flatten the lottery odds. And the fact of the

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<v Speaker 3>matter is that discouraging tanking was the reason and the

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<v Speaker 3>three teams that tanked the most egregiously did not get

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<v Speaker 3>what they wanted this year. And so frankly, the like

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<v Speaker 3>that has worked. And in the eyes of the people

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<v Speaker 3>that set up that sysn't it's fair. It is the

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<v Speaker 3>something smell bad? Is it rigged? Absolutely not. There's just

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<v Speaker 3>like the idea that right, like the prevailing conspiracy theory.

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<v Speaker 3>If we're talking about that would be well, the Mavericks

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<v Speaker 3>gave the Lakers Luca at the bidding of the NBA

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<v Speaker 3>League Office or you know, Brass and so now they're

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<v Speaker 3>rewarding Dallas. So does that mean the NDIA League office

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<v Speaker 3>also hurt Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis? Like did they

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<v Speaker 3>cause those injuries too? And frankly, if the NBA League

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<v Speaker 3>Office had the power and will to make these things happen,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think they care about Dallas. If they wanted

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<v Speaker 3>Luca to go to the Lakers, and that is actually

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<v Speaker 3>how these things happened. Why reward Dallas? If they're that powerful,

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<v Speaker 3>they don't need to give them anything.

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<v Speaker 2>Well played?

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<v Speaker 1>And I probably should have just asked whether or not

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<v Speaker 1>it's rigged, But I do want to lean into the

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<v Speaker 1>answer you gave me for the first part of a

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<v Speaker 1>clunky question and ask you whether or not you like

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<v Speaker 1>what the league has done. Do you think it was

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<v Speaker 1>the right thing to flatten the odds in twenty nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>and therefore, uh, you know, the motivation is to dissuade

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<v Speaker 1>tanking and Tim Bontemps from ESPN wrote a piece today

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<v Speaker 1>quoting a number of different executives that were celebrating the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that the Jazz and the Wizards specifically did not

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<v Speaker 1>get the number one overall pick because people around the

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<v Speaker 1>league don't seem to respect a team that is unserious

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<v Speaker 1>about competing, unserious about competition. Do you think the NBA

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<v Speaker 1>needs to look at this process though, and maybe look

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<v Speaker 1>at what the NFL does by simply rewarding the worst

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<v Speaker 1>teams with the best picks in the draft?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I mean, I think any system that you have

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<v Speaker 3>where there's going to be like a percentage chance, I

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<v Speaker 3>kind of think you're going to get the same results. Right, Like,

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<v Speaker 3>even when it was just before it was the flat

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<v Speaker 3>and fourteen percent, right, you were getting the number the one,

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<v Speaker 3>the first overall worst record had a twenty five percent chance.

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<v Speaker 3>That's a lot better. That feels a lot better than

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<v Speaker 3>fourteen percent chance. And so I think you get a

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<v Speaker 3>number of teams who are thinking, well, if we can

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<v Speaker 3>be the absolute worst, then we have a really good shot.

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<v Speaker 3>Flattening the odds just means okay, well, then there's more

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<v Speaker 3>teams that are going to get a stab at it,

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<v Speaker 3>and maybe you can win it if you have at

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<v Speaker 3>one point absent chance, right, And so I think any

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<v Speaker 3>system with a percentage is probably not going to discourage

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<v Speaker 3>tanking enough to actually make it go away. If you

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<v Speaker 3>went to a system where it was just like, yes,

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<v Speaker 3>the worst overall team the worst record gets the number

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<v Speaker 3>one pick, and it just goes in order like that.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know if that means that you get you know, three,

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<v Speaker 3>four or five teams jockeying for that worst overall record

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<v Speaker 3>every season, don't I don't know what that looks like.

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<v Speaker 3>And so it feels like, yeah, I mean, I guess

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<v Speaker 3>I just still go back to like it's fair in

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<v Speaker 3>the ways the NBA wants it to be fair. It's

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<v Speaker 3>probably impossible at this point to make it feel fair

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<v Speaker 3>for everyone involved, like team wise and fan wise. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>no one is going to be happy no matter how

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<v Speaker 3>this all shakes out. And at this point, you're probably

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<v Speaker 3>never going to discourage tanking unless you start changing player

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<v Speaker 3>participation policy in a way, way, way, different way than

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<v Speaker 3>the NBA currently does it.

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<v Speaker 1>So now this brings up a really interesting discussion, Sarah,

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<v Speaker 1>because I'm not a proponent of tanking all the time,

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<v Speaker 1>but in certain unique situations, I am a proponent of tanking.

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<v Speaker 1>And in the situation where the Jazz have found themselves in.

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<v Speaker 1>For the past three years, my belief has been that

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<v Speaker 1>they need to go all in to give themselves the

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<v Speaker 1>best chance at some of these prospects, namely Victor webbin Ya.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a couple of years ago, namely Cooper Flag this year.

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<v Speaker 1>So I cannot sit here and say, you know that

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<v Speaker 1>I disagree with what they did last year.

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<v Speaker 2>That would make me a hypocrite.

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<v Speaker 1>But now that we have the data, since two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>nine nineteen, there are six drafts where the worst team

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<v Speaker 1>has not received the number one overall pick, And there

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<v Speaker 1>are conversations about basketball gods and karma, and if you

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<v Speaker 1>are not approaching this endeavor with integrity, to try to

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<v Speaker 1>be serious about competition, maybe you don't deserve to be

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<v Speaker 1>rewarded for such a lackadaisical approach. Have you changed your

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<v Speaker 1>opinion on what the Jazz should continue to do moving forward.

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<v Speaker 3>I haven't. I still think they should tank, and I

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<v Speaker 3>did this year. I've If anything, what this lottery showed

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<v Speaker 3>me is that karma is not real. You can trade

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<v Speaker 3>Luka Doncic and have the most ridiculed front office in

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<v Speaker 3>the NBA and you can still get rewarded. So basketball

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<v Speaker 3>karma does not work the way that I ever thought

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<v Speaker 3>that it did, And the Jazz are not getting a

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<v Speaker 3>top tier free agent right now. Maybe they would have

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<v Speaker 3>had a chance of something if they landed Super Flag,

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<v Speaker 3>But you've got to get players to get players, and

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<v Speaker 3>the way for them to start doing that is to

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<v Speaker 3>the draft. And next year they've got a top eight

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<v Speaker 3>protected pick that if it falls out of that they

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<v Speaker 3>have to send it to Okay. See and why would

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<v Speaker 3>you let that go? Why would you try to get

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<v Speaker 3>twenty four to twenty five wins by playing lowry and

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<v Speaker 3>a bunch of rookies and second year players just so

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<v Speaker 3>that you can lose that pick and see another Western

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<v Speaker 3>Conference foe get the pick that you would have had.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's the best strategy right now.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm with you. No one around he wants to hear it.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think the Jazz will continue this strategy now?

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<v Speaker 1>And Sarah, every time I've had you on since the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the season, I've tried to kind of kick

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<v Speaker 1>the tires on what could the offseason look like? But

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<v Speaker 1>you were good to tell us we had to wait

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<v Speaker 1>until Monday. Well we waited until Monday. Now they have

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<v Speaker 1>the fifth pick. How do you think this color is

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<v Speaker 1>the context of what this offseason will look like for

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<v Speaker 1>the Jazz.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, you know, before the lottery, my answer

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<v Speaker 3>to that question was usually, you know, if they land Cooper,

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<v Speaker 3>the only thing that would keep them from tanking in

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<v Speaker 3>a twenty five to twenty six season would be if

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<v Speaker 3>they were to go out and get another big time

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<v Speaker 3>player to put on the team. I think that that

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<v Speaker 3>is still my answer, even though they didn't Vancouver. Unless

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<v Speaker 3>they make a big trade, unless they use the number

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<v Speaker 3>five pick in this year's draft plus some other matching

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<v Speaker 3>salary assets to go and get a big time player,

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<v Speaker 3>I fully expect for them to do the same thing.

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<v Speaker 3>It's going to be a rinse, washed and repeat of

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<v Speaker 3>last year.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so excuse me.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's move over to the Let's see, I'll call it

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<v Speaker 1>the slight possibility that the Jazz are involved in a

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<v Speaker 1>trade that lands a notable piece here in the market.

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<v Speaker 1>So as we know, it has been reported that Giannis

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<v Speaker 1>is open to being traded from Milwaukee. There are teams

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<v Speaker 1>like the Phoenix Suns that have hard decisions to make

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<v Speaker 1>about really good players that are making a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>money for a team that didn't do anything last year.

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<v Speaker 1>If the Boston Celtics lose tonight, and quite frankly, Sarah,

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<v Speaker 1>even if they don't, this is a new owner group that,

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<v Speaker 1>according to Bobby Mark's calculation, is going to be faced

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<v Speaker 1>with a luxury tax bill of north of five hundred

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<v Speaker 1>million dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So on one hand.

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<v Speaker 1>We know that there will be very good players on

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<v Speaker 1>the open market there to be had. On the other hand,

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<v Speaker 1>I have a hard time seeing the Jazz come up

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<v Speaker 1>with a package that's analogous to what OKC can put together,

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<v Speaker 1>what Houston could put together, and certainly what San Antonio

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<v Speaker 1>could put together.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think there's.

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<v Speaker 1>Any chance that the Jazz have enough and we'll get

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<v Speaker 1>involved to land a viable piece here in the market

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<v Speaker 1>that could really invigorate this fan base.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, if Milwaukee actually wants to start having

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<v Speaker 3>like real conversations about potentially moving meanness, I think that

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<v Speaker 3>the Jazz would certainly try to be involved, But as

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<v Speaker 3>you said, I don't think the deal that they could

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<v Speaker 3>offer would be good enough. When you consider the types

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<v Speaker 3>of players and picks that you could get from other teams.

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<v Speaker 3>You could get more like higher quantity assets probably from

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<v Speaker 3>the Jazz, but you're not going to get you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the number two pick, or you know, let's not leave

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<v Speaker 3>Dallas out of this either, right, Like they could do

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<v Speaker 3>a Cooper Yanni slip if they wanted to. And so

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<v Speaker 3>there are a lot of teams that have a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of things like if you think about the way that

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<v Speaker 3>Milwaukee is kind of looking at their immediate future, they

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<v Speaker 3>don't have assets, they don't have someone that's going to

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<v Speaker 3>take the place of Dame once he actually gets healthy

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<v Speaker 3>and is probably done with his career at that point.

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<v Speaker 3>If they're giving up on Giannis, they need to have

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<v Speaker 3>something really good to look to, and the Jazz don't

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<v Speaker 3>have that thing to give them, and so it's really

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<v Speaker 3>hard for me to imagine them being in the running.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, moving over to if we operate off the

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<v Speaker 1>premise that the Jazz stay at five, and there are

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<v Speaker 1>a number of reports out there that the Jazz are

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<v Speaker 1>going to try really hard to move up, and Zanak

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<v Speaker 1>himself talked about all the possibilities. Tim McMahon, who joined

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<v Speaker 1>us yesterday, is reporting that the ownership of the Dallas

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<v Speaker 1>Mavericks has laid the edict down that we are keeping

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<v Speaker 1>one and we are drafting Cooper Flag. It feels like

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<v Speaker 1>it's a consensus that Dylan Harper's too. And then we

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<v Speaker 1>get into the Ace Bailey, VJ Edgecomb, Jeremiah Fears, Trey Johnson,

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<v Speaker 1>the Mallawatch kid from Duke, We get into that portion,

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<v Speaker 1>Conk Nipple as well. Give us a few names, Sarah

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<v Speaker 1>at five that you think will be there that the

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<v Speaker 1>Jazz would take a look at, and maybe a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of options that they could draft.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I mean all the names that you said just

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<v Speaker 3>now are absolutely in the running, right, Trey Johnson, VJ. Edgecomb,

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<v Speaker 3>Ace Bailey, Jeremiah, Jeremiah Fears, Conk Nipple. I would also

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<v Speaker 3>put in Derrek Queen probably in that mix. That's probably

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<v Speaker 3>the group of guys that you're looking at if you

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<v Speaker 3>if they decide to keep number five. And I mean

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<v Speaker 3>I talked to all of those players earlier today, and

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<v Speaker 3>you know there's certain things that like if I was

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<v Speaker 3>an NBAGM that would really scare me about Summer Home.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, a Staley's a guy who doesn't pass the ball,

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<v Speaker 3>shoots a ton of mid rain shots. He's another project, right,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, even you know VJ. Edgecomb, who seems like

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<v Speaker 3>kind of a complete two way player, he's got some

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<v Speaker 3>efficiency issues and he's got some ball handling issues that

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<v Speaker 3>would need to be worked out. Like, none of these

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<v Speaker 3>guys are going to come in as like complete, ready

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<v Speaker 3>to go blue chip prospects. And so I think that

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<v Speaker 3>one of the things that needs to be thought about

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<v Speaker 3>kind of just beyond this draft is how many more

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<v Speaker 3>projects are the Jazz going to be willing to take on?

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<v Speaker 3>And at some point over the next you know, between

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<v Speaker 3>now and probably next year's draft, Like, there's going to

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<v Speaker 3>need to be a lot of decisions made because at

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<v Speaker 3>this point you've got Walker Tesler, Taylor Hendrix, Fiante, George,

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<v Speaker 3>Bryce Sentaba, Cody Williams, Isaiah Collier, Kyle Philipowski, potentially four

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<v Speaker 3>draft picks this year taking over the four non guaranteed

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<v Speaker 3>player spots that were on the roster last year. Next

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<v Speaker 3>year's draft, how many moreward young players are you going

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<v Speaker 3>to bring on? You can't keep them all, and a

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<v Speaker 3>team like that it's not going to win. So there

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<v Speaker 3>are some big decisions about kind of who to cup

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<v Speaker 3>bait win between now and then.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, there is, so, Sarah, if we move over into

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<v Speaker 1>the space and it's really hard to have this exercise

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<v Speaker 1>done sitting here in mid May without knowing who's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be.

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<v Speaker 2>On the roster. But if the.

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<v Speaker 1>Jazz have done their calculation, if they decide that we

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<v Speaker 1>are going to be serious about competing, if they decide

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<v Speaker 1>that we are not going to invent injuries, if they

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<v Speaker 1>decide that they are going to play their best possible

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<v Speaker 1>lineups every single night, what's best case scenario for them

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<v Speaker 1>next season? If there's no sitting, marketings, not shooting seven

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<v Speaker 1>threes a night, if Collins and Sexton and Clarkson, if

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<v Speaker 1>they go all in to maximize who this roster is,

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<v Speaker 1>what does it look like next year?

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<v Speaker 3>Honestly, Like, I think, obviously they win more games than

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<v Speaker 3>they did this year, but you're probably still looking at

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<v Speaker 3>a situation where you, like, honestly, the best case scenario

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<v Speaker 3>from a wins perspective is you win some more games,

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<v Speaker 3>but not enough to actually make it to play in

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<v Speaker 3>which would be the worst case scenario because then you

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<v Speaker 3>lose your pick. And so I just don't think that

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<v Speaker 3>this team has enough right now, especially with how many

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<v Speaker 3>young players you're going to have on the roster, Like

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<v Speaker 3>there's just no depth. If you're considering considering it talent wise, right,

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<v Speaker 3>They're too young, they're too inexperienced, They're not ready for

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<v Speaker 3>any of that right now. And so best case scenario

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<v Speaker 3>is that they decide to go the other way, loose

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<v Speaker 3>and games and keep their pick.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm with you there, all right, Sarah. Well, a rough

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<v Speaker 1>week for jazz. Hopefully better times ahead. Enjoy Chicago and

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<v Speaker 1>travel safe.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, thanks a lot. Talk to Sre Todd.

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<v Speaker 1>Covers the Utah Jazz for the des Red News. She

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<v Speaker 1>has three really good pieces up on her experience being

377
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:14.880
<v Speaker 1>in the room, the reaction of Justin Zanik, and the

378
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:18.119
<v Speaker 1>Utah Jazz contingent. All those can be found on her

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<v Speaker 1>Twitter page at NBA Sarah is where you find her.

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